Alternative Treatments for Peyronie's Disease

[nemo]

You should post this on the Oral Treatments forum, but I'll tell you that Acetyl L Carnitine, Propionyl L Carnitine, and L-Arginine are very popular supplements among many on the forum.  I'm taking all three.

Nemo

[ocelot556]

Bodoo2u:

It was a prescription. I knew of the natural pharmacy in town, but he explicitly asked me if I knew where it was at even though it was about 30 minutes away from his office. I assume this is because I would not be able to find a pharmacist who would mix this gel for me anywhere else. I assume I needed the Rx for it, as it was written on a slip.

The pharmacist said to me the first time I filled the Rx that he'd had other customers who used this and were very happy with their results. The pharmacist was being vague about any details, and I was not really compelled to ask a lot of detailed questions - because the shop was staffed with women and I am in my early 20's (not that the age matters in the humiliation this disease causes, but when a cute young girl is next to the pharmacist at the counter, I'm not talking about my fibrotic penis).

As far as "helped" -- the peyronie's has progressed. I have not curved more, but I can feel some small amounts of hardening. I went to the uro first because the disease was getting worse - in the first month of application I noticed more hardened scars but I doubt it was because of the gel itself and more because of the active phase of the disease which caused me to seek out this uro in the first place.

Since using it I've developed a new "piano wire" scar, small and very thin, but it wasn't on the area I was applying the gel to (at that point). My curve has not resolved to any extent that I can see (it's not a large curve, about 20 degrees) but where I feel the gel is helping me is in the tactile feel of the largest plaque. It simply feels softer. We're not talking skin soft...but it just doesn't feel as rigid as it used to. It has not diminished in size or changed in shape. But it's doing SOMETHING. Which is why I posted the update.

Give me a few more months to finish the treatment, since my reports are completely subjective, and I can give you a better idea of what this does (if anything). I just wanted to remain active because I feel like I owe this board a lot, even if I can't deliver extremely promising news.

[bodoo2u]

Thanks a lot Ocelot. Do you have the name and location of that natural pharmacist. I sure would love to ge tmy hands on a tube of that gel.

Fellas, I see that no one has responded to my post on recombinant human SOD. I read a few posts on the subject from last year, but they didn't tell me where I can get the stuff, if it's available at all. Can someone let me know something?

[ocelot556]

It's the Lionville Natural Pharmacy in Lionville, Pennsylvania. My urologist who prescribed it was a Dr. James Bollinger, he operates out of Paoli, PA.

Paoli is a town that's so close to Malvern, PA, with both places being so built up with subruban sprawl that around here the area is frequently referred to as "Paoli/Malvern". Malvern, for maybe the one or two people who aren't eagerly waiting for more news on it, is where Auxilium has their headquarters. This is why I sought out the good doctor to begin with. He's actually a great guy, too - took a call from me at 9pm on a Friday on his personal time to reassure me when I was panicked that my peyronie's was progressing, and offered to step up to intralesional injections of the gel if I felt the conservative topical treatment wasn't working.

Dr. Bollinger wasn't familiar with Auxilium when I asked him, however (even though he had literature for their testosterone gel in his waiting room!) and he disputed the notion that a VED would help me, suggesting it had more potential to reinjure me than to help. He did give me some free viagra samples, however, so it's clear that he takes stock in that treatment. I give you this only to add a grain of salt - obviously he's not as cutting-edge as all of that, since even Levine acknowledges the VED.

And again, I reiterate for those PMing me: The gel comes in 10cc tubes that look like syringes without the needles. The syringes come in a bag. The slip on the bag has the normal info (my name, pharmacy, doctor, etc.) but all it says about the product is this, exactly: PEYRONIE'S GEL (EDTA, ACETYL-L-CARN) 80M.

This is all the info I have, really. I don't want to get people's hope up, but I hope what I have conveyed helps in some way.

[Dented]

Hi Ocelot,

I see Dr. Metro in Philadelphia. He prescribed me colchichine after my injury which may have helped prevent some of the collagen buildup. He specializes in traumatic penile reconstruction and seems to know a lot about Peyronies.

[Hawk]

George,  check this out.  I think you will enjoy these links under "Defining Peyronies Disease".  While this in not the reference I was looking for, it is interesting.

Perturbation of cell cycle regulators in Peyronie's diseaseAuteur(s) / Author(s)
MULHALL J. P. (1) ; BRANCH J. (1) ; LUBRANO T. (1) ; SHANKEY T. V. (1) ;

The p53 protein has been shown to be an important cell cycle regulator and pro-apoptotic factor. Aberrant p53 function leading to cell immortalization and proliferation has been implicated in several human malignancies. We hypothesized that abnormal p53 function may explain the high proliferative ability of fibroblasts derived from Peyronie's plaques. This study was undertaken to study the presence and function of p53 and its downstream elements (p21, mdm-2) in Peyronie's disease cell cultures. ...This is highly suggestive of an aberration of the p53 pathway in plaque-derived fibroblasts. Peyronie's plaque-derived fibroblasts demonstrated stabilization and defunctionalization of p53 protein combined with appropriate responses of its transcriptional elements. These findings may explain the high cell proliferation rates in these cells and suggests a role for perturbation of the p53 pathway in the pathogenesis of Peyronie's disease    

[bodoo2u]

I only got one hit on the site Extracorporeal shockwave therapy when I searched for Extracorporeal Shockwave Therapy. Does anyone have an opinion on it? I have been reading about it on the Web, and so far I have not read about any side affects.  I will, however, continue to read up on it.

[Cure Hunting]

I have done research and have read the studies.  It may help.  Unfortunately the one place in North America that I can find that would do it is temporaily out of service.  Its the place in Toronto Canada.  The main Doctor there is going off to do other things and they haven't replaced him.

[AR]

Excuse me guys, for jumping in here with a non sequitur, but my wife and I were out working with our honey bee hives the other day when, after getting stung a few times, I casually mentioned, .."Hey, what if I had one of these girls sting me on my plaque..?"   Now I've read about bee-venom-therapy, but know little about it, or how it might work, but for a second I thought, what the Hey!... VED's?, Traction?, Verapamine injections?... Bee-venom-therapy...?  Yes, I know what you're thinking, but after you've been stung hundreds of times by honey bees, their sting is not such a big deal, albeit, the arm, hand, or face is not as tender as some parts of the anatomy...but what do you guys think?  Tim, George..?  Could the reaction to bee venom, in some "molecular-way", "shock" our plaque, cause beneficial "blood flow", or something else positive...? Anything positive..?

Anyone up on this..?

Totally sincerely,  AR

[Tim468]

Anyone up on this..?

Oh, I get it - you got this great diea but you want to try it on us first??

Tim

Actually, the idea is very intriguing and some show I watched a long time ago about bee venom therapy suggested it was quite beneficial. I also saw one on a snake handler who had been bitten and our jaws dropped when we learned he was 80 - he looked about 50. It suggested a beneficial outcome from surviving a rattler attack. However, that is one experiment on the penis I would definietly pass on!

Tim

[AR]

Thanks Guys:  I knew I should've posted this in the "On the Light Side" thread.  

Yes, I think I saw those same programs... and that snake-handler guy's fingers were very, ah.., "bent" and "crooked", so I'd pass on the snake-venom approach... but bee-venom...?  Maybe I'll ask my Uro his opinion first.  

But seriously, if I was sure it wouldn't do more damage, I'd give it a try! I'll do some internet research.

If you never hear from me again, it's because it either killed me, or something tragic happened and I'm too embarrassed to return.
 AR

[ocelot556]

Yeah, they only CALL it a trouser snake - there's no relation! Nor should you introduce the two!

But bee venom therapy is crazy - but sometime's crazy is what it takes. I know that they use it on arthritics, and MS patients - there is some measure of scarring involved in both diseases. It's supposed to release toxins that stimulate the bodies healing process - it's up for grabs if this would promote healing or fibrosis, since it's a messed up healing process that's causing the damn thing in the first place...

But if people are reporting medical injections via syringe giving them plaque nodules, I wonder how much damage a bee stinger would do - don't they leave them behind in what they sting!? :/

[ocelot556]

Why, then, are some people hailing Xiaflex as the next big drug to combat Peyronies Disease when it's an injectable? Wouldn't that, like verapamil and other injections, cause more plaque then it helps?

[j]

headinthesky, I'm not aware of any scientific basis for what you're saying about "resonant frequencies".    Is this your own thinking?

[j]

ocelot, the premise of verapamil treatment is that it promotes local production of collagenase, an enzyme that dissolves collgagen.  Xiaflex on the other hand actually is collagenase, so it's expected to be much more effective than verapamil.

[headinthesky]

headinthesky, I'm not aware of any scientific basis for what you're saying about "resonant frequencies".    Is this your own thinking?

No, not my own thinking. I'm doing my Masters in Biomedicine.
That's how basic waves work. Think of an opera singer with a high high tone, you know the example of her breaking glass. The waves hit the exact frequency (think of frequency as energy) that the atoms require to move. It's a concept in physics.

Check out: http://www.zyra.org.uk/microw.htm
As they explain, the frequency for water is 2450 Megahertz, which causes water unbond, and release energy in the forms of heat.

The aim of ultrasonic therapy is that above. Except applying it to plaque and fibrotic tissue is something that needs to be researched. They use it to break kidney stones (shock wave lithotripsy), which uses ultrasound waves to do it. Soundwaves operate in a similar fashion to light rays (like the opera singer).

[Tim468]

Not all plaque is the same. I know of no data that says sterols are in the calcified plaque of Peyronies. It is different than what forms on the intima of small arteries in cardiovascular disease.

But the point about resonant frequencies is well taken none the less.

Tim

[headinthesky]

Not all plaque is the same. I know of no data that says sterols are in the calcified plaque of Peyronies. It is different than what forms on the intima of small arteries in cardiovascular disease.

But the point about resonant frequencies is well taken none the less.

Tim

You're right, no plaque is the same, it varies in the composition, but it's the same "ingredients" to a point. Cholesterol is pretty "sticky". Cholesterol is a sterol.

And I would think injecting yourself with bee venom would cause a bigger problem... because of the inflammation?

[George999]

We know that Trauma is a key factor in initiating Peyronies.  That makes me more than a little suspicious of techniques that employ trauma in there delivery.  Both needles used to administer things like Verapamil or Collagenase and ultrasound or other waveforms used to attack plaque are literally inflicting trauma in the process.  This sounds to me like it could turn into some sort of chronic treatment scheme.  Sorry to inject skepticism here, but I can't help but wondering if we are not barking up the wrong tree with these approaches.  - George

[AR]

Some one posted a copy of a scientific paper on this subject a few weeks back (forget who/which thread), now it's hit main stream with an article in the May 19 issue of Newsweek. Go to .com and find it under "Health" titled "War on Wounds".  The first half is war-crap related, but the later half is interesting.

AR

[Tim468]

It's headed up by Anthony Attala and he has created an artificial penis in an animal that works (the boy rabbits got the little girl rabbits pregnant). It's cool stuff.

Tim

[LWillisjr]

I didn't see a thread for this topic, so thought I would start one. I found an artical on Low level laser therapy here:


http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1995SPIE.2395..108J

Would be interested if anyone has any experience with this.

Post moved from it's own topic to this more appropriate thread.
Angus

[Tim468]

That abstract, which did not report any results, came out 13 years ago. Since it went no where, I assume it had negative results. On the web, you can find claims (oddly enough, by makers of lasers!) that "63%" of men were fixed by laser therapy.

I think this could properly go under the term "Alternative Therapies".

Tim

[alcohen]

What is going on with this website?

http://www.peyronies-disease-help.com/

Is this just a crock?  I found the book he sells on his website for 44 for 15 on amazon.com and purchased it and find it intriguing.  Has anyone tried the methods or products that are sold here or know anybody that has?  

I am just biding my time till the 18th, when I can finally see Dr. Cully Carson at UNC Hospital in Chapel Hill.  As those who have followed me have seen, I went to two urologists in the Charlotte area, neither of which were helpful.  They both insisted there was nothing wrong with me and became upset.  

However, in looking I have a clear ridge going from the base of my penis to near the top.  I also have various bumps and enlarged-looking veins on each side of my penis and what feels to be a mass on the underside.  I have hourglass indentations that come and go depending on blood flow throughout the day.  I have a very curved to the left penis.  It also curves down.  Everything hurts ALL the time where I know the mass on the top of my penis starts.  It hurts me to even do anything at all.  I hate wearing clothing as it rubs against the "scar" on my penis and hurts.  The only way I have ever been able to sleep is on my stomach but this is now impossible as it hurts too much to put pressure on my penis.  So I can never sleep more than about 30 minutes to 1 hour a night.  I also now sleep with nothing on as my underwear would hurt my penis.  Unfortunately, now I have 2-3 wet dreams a week and they ruin my sheets.  I guess the covers are brushing my penis or something.  When I wake up and am ejaculating in my sheets my dick doesn't appear very hard.  Even armed with all this knowledge, my urologist told me that I was looking to much into it and that I was FINE.  No Peyronie's, nothing wrong.  Preposterous.  I am slowly going COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY INSANE.  I look at myself in the mirror and am so disgusted that I want to throw up.  I got my one urologist to reluctantly transfer me to the urologist I am now waiting to see and cancelled my appointment with my other one.  He had most recently told me that I needed to masterbate and that would fix things.  He left a voice-mail for me sayin that he was glad I was better now!!  He had assured me before that I would be better and told me to cancel my appointment with him if he was.  Ha!  Better!!!?!!!!  

Every day I check my penis and new things are happening.  New cord looking things, worse curve, more pain, and what appear to be harder lumps.  For me to be told there is nothing wrong with me and for this to happen drives me crazy.  The only time I do not beg and plead to die and make the pain stop is when I am with my girlfriend and she is hugging me.  I get a curved and very painful erection at that point in time but I feel somewhat at peace because I am so much in love with her that I just don't give a crap that I feel horrible.  When I look into her eyes, everything feels better for a minute and sometimes when I'm talking to her I even forget the pain momentarily and think that everything is okay.  

But it's not.  When I start driving away from her house or lay in bed at night unable to sleep and just waiting to have to wash my sheets in the morning the dread sets in.  I would do anything to make the pain stop.  

[Iceman]

alcohen -

relax - the pain will subside over time - i was in so much pain for months but its going away now day by day - be strong and try not to think about it - its hard I know but you must try to shift your attention to something else - get on PENTOX!!! - your uro will supply it....

try ALC as well - these have helped me reduce the pain and also get on a VED.....ALSO this website you have the link to is I find a bit of a con - its promoting stuff thats really not going to do you much good - I bought a whole lot of that crap and for nothing!!!

just get the pentox and youll find it will help you over time......

[gnosis]

I heard about a "Peyronie's Club" which approached a well know body worker and all 50 of them went to him for treatment.  I heard that 40 got better.  I'm trying to track down if anyone knows about such a club or about such  bodyworker or about direct manual efforts to soften plaque.  

gnosis

[Tim468]

So, does he club your penis??  

What does he do? Sounds vague - too vague to even do a google search.

Tim

[lessj]

Gentlemen -

I'm very impressed with this website!  Diagnosed 16 months ago, I received no encouragement by my urologist to try any particular treatment, and have seen him only the one time.

I recently spoke with an Asian-medicine pain-management specialist who instantly recommended a powder provided by the Chinese to the Viet Cong during the Vietnam war (apparently the larger unvieling to the western world of the concoction) for stopping bleeding and speeding healing (without scarring): YunNam BaiYao.  Produced primarily from ginseng and rhisome from the YunNan province, its efficacy is apparently so profound that soldiers suffering bullet wounds could return to battle the next day(!)(?) and the widow of the formulator sold it (was forced to?) to the Chinese government, who now solely control its production.  The several blendings of only some parts of the many ingredients are said to take place in disparate locales, with the final mixing performed by individuals in the dark about the origins of any of the minor ingredients.  (This stuff is surrounded by legends, I guess.  The one copy of the entire recipe is said to be in the hands of the Chinese Army.)  It is known as "White Powder."  She sells it in blister packs, cheap.

What have you heard about it?  Any Peyronnies-related results?  Is it something worthy of more investigation?

[alcohen]

I am assuming that it is something topical?  I have certainly never heard of such a thing.  From what I have heard, some people have had success though how much is hard to measure through the use of alternative medicine such as what you are describing.  The goal of any of that stuff is to reduce inflammation.  Anyone else have thoughts on this?  If it is cheap, then that is good.  I definitely would not spend a fortune on something like that...  But being cheap it could be interesting to try.  I would be skeptical about its bullet-healing abilities though..

[Tim468]

The white powder has all the properties of fraud written all over it.

Nevertheless, we have always eagerly listened to reports from those who try such stuff! Usually, the reports are negative.

Tim

[lessj]

I watched a you-tube type video of a speech by a Chinese scientist yesterday.  They say the stuff has a bright future - they have clinical trial results all over for injury resolution, but want to do more scientific laboratory testing.  The asian healer with whom I spoke told me straight-faced stories about this emergency kit staple that is in the pack of every Chinese soldier.  There are herbal astringents in this stuff, too, I think.  A google search will inform you better than I can about Yun Nam Bai Yao.

New to the site, I haven't read much of the great volume of posts from what appear to be thoughtful writers, but I haven't run across mention at all of Eastern treatments for Peyronnie's.  I've got an email into that URO I saw 16 months ago.  Is there an Eastern practitioner who any posters have sat down with?  To any positive avail?

[Iceman]

lessj -

i think i will now go and join the chinese army to see if i can get some of this stuff

[jayhawk]

If you found the information on internet it must be true! No one would B.S. you on the net!

[Hawk]

Lessj,

While there is often a lack of knowledge in the medical community, or a lack of consolidating all available information.  I think there are  VERY, VERY, FEW if any "secrets" in medicine.  Researchers are always eager to take credit for true break-throughs and to demonstrate their genius by objective clinical trials. Most of the secrets from China revolve around lead paint on children's toys, cancer rates and pollution exceeding that of any nation, and the true ages of their Olympic athletes. Actually that does not begin to scratch the surface of their secrets but there have been NO demonstrated secrets in medicine.

[George999]

I kind of agree with the emerging consensus here.  Additionally, I suspect that if this REALLY WAS a secret of the Chinese Army, what with there level of paranoia and intrusive behavior, it simply wouldn't be out there kicking around on the Internet like this.  But this is more like secret CIA knowledge of UFO's and the corpse of BigFoot in the freezer somewhere in Georgia.  The facts behind the phenomenon are always magically just a bit out of reach.  And all of the attempts to pin them down eventually lead down rabbit trails.  So I think we have a choice of wasting our time chasing these things OR pursuing things that are known to be helpful, even if only slightly.  Personally, I we like to try for a foot and gain an inch that try to chase down a mile and end up going no where.  But, to each his own.  - George

[Tim468]

I have looked at many "Eastern" remedies, and tried a few - though I am not certain I posted about all of them here. That includes Wogonin (tested by Dr. Lue!), Maitake Mushroom, and various "tonic" such as Korean Red Ginseng (for ED) and that Malaysian herb that stimulates testosterone production (blocking on the name). None helped me personally and I tried them all.

However, a lot of research needs to be done on such remedies, as trial and error has led to many developments in herbal medicine that we do not understand, yet work.

Tim

[jackisback]

I think the best chance of combating this with "eastern" medicine is through Ayurveda. If you go to this website for the great PBS documentary show "Frontline"

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/view/main.html

then click on one of the parts for this documentary, you will see a link on the side for "India: A Second Opinion".  I can't remember exactly, but I think you can just watch the second part of this video.

The guy in the video had a problem that he could not move his shoulder, and after I think 2 weeks he had more movement than ever since he got the condition. They said he should stay 10 days longer, and he would keep getting better.

Auxillium is also being tested for Frozen Shoulder Syndrome, so it seems plausible to me, that something could be done for Peyronie's people in India, but who has 3-4 weeks they can take off for an Ayurveda vacation in India? Not exactly covered by insurance companies.

But if someone on here is retired and has the money, it'd be interesting to see how they fared.

[Hitman]

I continue to take Pentoxifylli 400mg. twice a day and use hot water soakings. I believe that peyronies is, in my case, not unlike a sport injury. It has taken a few years for me to have recovered this far. I want to thank all of you for your help and advice.
I just want to encourage everyone to keep up your hope. It may take time, but I know that positive results are possible. Thanks for this site and the hope it brings.

hot water soakings?

how would you go about doing that?

[jks.jks1975]

Hi All

I joined this forum 5 months before but i lost my id and my mail id password also
I  have again joined this forum with new id.
I have Peyronies Disease for 5 years. 3 years back I underwent surgery and again I got back Peyronies Disease.
I have read some books of AYURVEDA (indian medicine system) which basically classifies human body into PITTA body(Fire), KABHA body(Water), VADA body (Air). In any human body all the three are existing. (and one will be slightly higher in content than the other two. When one element is extremely high then that type of diseases will affect that human body. And the doctor will give medicine to pacify (reduce) that element and that disease will disappear. If all the three are balanced then he/she is normal.

Based on this philosophy and BASED ON THE SYMPTOMS I HAVE when I diagnose I feel that Peyronies Disease is because of more of fire content or heat. If you have balanced heat then all the systems (top to bottom) will work fine. If it is overperforming then you have diseases.

These are the symptoms which I had in the last 10 years. I was thinking these are normal. Do all the Peyronies Disease people have these symptoms.?
Please keep in mind Peyronies Disease is opposite of cancer. Cancer is due to underperformance. Peyronies Disease is due to overperformance.


1.   These people have a strong metabolism, good digestion and resulting strong appetites. Very strong metabolism is not good as it causes diseases.(over performance)
2.   Dandruff  (heat body generates more dandruff), tendency toward baldness or thinning hair
3.   Medium physique
4.   Sharp mind, good concentration powers, very analytical
5.   Orderly, systematic
6.   Pittas frequently become irritated and angry
7.   very very less sports activities because it generates heat and they will be tired very easily
8.   These guys are sharp and analytical.
9.   sarcastic, cutting speech
10.   if you go thro websites you will see more symptoms listed.

These are the characteristics of FIRE body (fire). You may argue that all have good digestive system. Answer is No. Those who gets cold frequently during winter, don't have this pitta perfect. They are more of Kabha (water content)

How this is happening? Source is food only. All of you know certain food has 'heat' and certain has 'coolness'.

Here is one ayurveda website which lists out them.
http://www.ayurvedic-cooking.com/foodcomponent.asp

When pitta body eats food with that has more fire content – more and more heat is generated and it causes diseases. For other body it will not affect.

I started following strict diet 1 month ago...I expect that something good will  happen. Honestly I am telling you I had dandruff problem for the last 7 years...(all kinds of shampoos I used ...no use) but after this diet, I am completely free of dandruff...

My question is ...Guys just go through the symptoms I have mentioned above, carefully...answer yourself.
I guess we all Peyronies Disease have pitta body. (fire to an EXTREME extent).

Lets discuss more.....

[didi20031]

jks
honestly, I don't think that there is a pattern as you describe it amongst peyronies sufferers... Every case of peyronies is different, all the patients are different, IMHO. However, this does not mean that the therapy you are on is not good for you; maybe for you it is the therapy of choice. I truly hope so!!

Here comes my comment on your question about the "symptoms":
1. my metabolism is quite normal I would say
2. no dandruff, no baldness nor thin hair   (I am 34)
3. medium to slim physique
4. I am a natural scientist, so sharp minded and analytical is true; good concentration: I would say no.
5. not at all!  
6. no! (only when driving during the rush hour!   )
7. Love sports (I ran several half marathons and last year even a marathon...)
8. view 4.
9. no

All the best!

[Ralf3]

This is very interesting actually...while a human being is an active part of a nature (but nowadays withdrawing from nature so much, hence all kinds of maladies), I think it has a particular sense. By the way, I fit to most of the points. Thank you.
Sometimes the problem is to get all the ingredients over the whole year, and sometimes it's really expensive. (e.g. tomatoes in winter

[Hawk]

I welcome open minded discussion but the facts are there is NO medical basis to Ayurveda as you present it.  You in fact describe it not as medical knowledge but as a philosophy.  There is no evidence that philosophy and Peyronies Disease have any connection.  We could just as logically try to associate Peyronies Disease with astrology or voodo.

Could it be  I believe almost anything could be true but I require a body of objective evidence, not just a statement of opinion or possibility.

[George999]

I have to agree with Hawk on this.  I use and have used Ayurveda herbals.  Some of them are very good at what they do.  Forskolin is just one example.  But Ayurveda itself, with its deep roots on Hinduism, is not likely to be helpful, at least not on a scientific level.  I much prefer to search for a medical solution amidst the findings of expert research than in the teachings of some ancient religious system.  On the other hand, if you are looking for a spiritual solution, Ayurveda might be a possible choice, although it wouldn't be mine.  - George

[jks.jks1975]

This is very interesting actually...while a human being is an active part of a nature (but nowadays withdrawing from nature so much, hence all kinds of maladies), I think it has a particular sense. By the way, I fit to most of the points. Thank you.
Sometimes the problem is to get all the ingredients over the whole year, and sometimes it's really expensive. (e.g. tomatoes in winter

If you have 'p' type of body (more of fire content) you should take less quantity of food that has heat.
Take more of water content and air content. Tomato to be avoided or taken less.....(more of heat ...thats why in hotels in starters tomato and pepper is used to aggrevate hunger)

[jks.jks1975]

I welcome open minded discussion but the facts are there is NO medical basis to Ayurveda as you present it.  You in fact describe it not as medical knowledge but as a philosophy.  There is no evidence that philosophy and Peyronies Disease have any connection.  We could just as logically try to associate Peyronies Disease with astrology or voodo.

Could it be  I believe almost anything could be true but I require a body of objective evidence, not just a statement of opinion or possibility.

I agree with you....In india this Peyronies Disease itself is not a known disease among Ayurveda doctors.
In Ayurveda...all the diseases are symptoms only. Cause is something that is of more in content or something less in content....Always diagnosis is done using symptoms not using any medical equipments...

Especially skin diseases...are due to heat...thats why I raised this question that do you guys have these symptoms..Thanks for your reply.

JKS

[pjchap]

Hi All... just an update to inform this page that i'm currently seeing a homeopath weekly, he's also doing acupuncture..!
i've seen him 4 times now and i'm taking a remedy on a daily basis which he gave me.
i am definitely noticing change going on but i just cant tell if its for better or for worse.. a stable state is being tampered with for sure so i'll just ride this out and see how i get on... i'll post my progress on this when i have more..
has anyone had any success with homeopathy..?

[wammy]

Why, then, are some people hailing Xiaflex as the next big drug to combat Peyronies Disease when it's an injectable? Wouldn't that, like verapamil and other injections, cause more plaque then it helps?

I have been healthy and active for 50 years but starting developing the dreaded ED issue shortly after my 50th bday.  Around 2 years ago i started taking viagra (worked wonders fyi:) but soon after my fourth dose I developed a small lump on the underside of my penis.  I don't remember any injury   Soon after that occured I developed a small curve (around 15 degrees) upward and to the left.  It caused slight discomfort but nothing too drastic.  I lived with it like this up until 6 months ago when i finally went to my doctor and mentioned the issue.  I was always under the assumption that my doctor had injected me with verapamil but am i under the wrong impression? was it in fact possibly xiaflex or do they have topical and injectable verapamil?  When I began reading posts I recognized verapamil as a drugname and thought it was what I remembered being treated with.  Regardless, I was given the injection that i agreed to since it was the only option given to me at the time.  This injection was painful and ended up making my curvature worse and more painful (I now use more due diligence after the last end result of just listening to anything my doctor tells me to do).  I have tried numerous supplements that I thought would help and also that I've researched online (vit e oral and external, vitamin k, bromelain, magnesium) but feel like I could've done myself more good with good ol' snake oil.  The only thing working for pain reduction as of now is advil and it does just enough of a job to allow for semi-enjoyable sex.  Just wanted to thank everyone for the advice and informative posts, I will do my best to let everyone know if I have any success from my research through the posts.  Definitely gonna keep snakes and bees away from my penis though, needles are scary enough.

[wammy]

just wanted to be sure that everyone knows from my previous post that I am in no way accusing viagra of causing what occured, it was just strange to me that it was the only change that i had in lifestyle before the problem developed.  I assume it arose from a possible injury of some sort during intercourse.  

[newguy]

wammy - To my knowledge, only those taking part in the current clinical trials are receiving xiaflex, so it seems likely that you received verapamil. How many times were you injected? In my personal, injecting someone with peyronies with a drug which is probably quite unlikely to offer significant improvement is a mistake. Those with peyronie's are possibly more susceptible that the general populous as a whole to develop further bouts of peyronies due to further penile injury, and an injection is an injury, especially if carried out by someone not especially skilled. Of course the pros and cons have to be weighed up though, and Xiaflex is possibly an example of a treatment whose benefits may completely outweigh any negatives. Early reports are positive.

As for your viagra comments, maybe you engaged in particulalrly vigorous sex at that time which caused the peyronies. Exact causes are hard to pinpoint for many peyronies sufferers.

[newguy]

OldMan - It doesn't seem like you had much luck with health professionals, not that I am attributing blame to any of them individually. It seems to be the culture in general which often pushes any intimate or sexual problem aside. It's a strange dichotomy really, as in many respects we live in a very sexualised culture, but when it comes to sexual health and functioning issues, where is much ignorance. I saw a tv show just a few days back supporting the fight against testicular cancer and the presenter almost seems ashamed to be mentioning the word "testiclar" and there was audible tittering and laughing about it all. It was all quite childish for adults to feel so very uncomfortable about something so serious. Still, it's better than not talking about it at all I guess. Aside from embarrassment, maybe part of the peyronies wall of  silence is due to their being no recognised primary "go to" treatment for this problem - though argubly there are some here on this very forum. I would imagine that if xiaflex becomes such a treatment, we'll all be hearing much more about peyronies. A case of interest after the event, but it may result in more funding people pumped into peyronies and related issues so it's not all bad news.

As for your other comments, what is the consensus here regarding using viagra whilst living with peyronies? I have been here a while and I didn't think that it was such a big no-no? I assume it's something that splits opinion.