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Author Topic: DMSO, DMSO based Solutions and TOPICAL Treatments  (Read 259428 times)

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Liam

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Re: Thackers Formula Revised ***REPOST***
« Reply #150 on: October 23, 2007, 05:52:30 PM »

Here is a post from Barry who personally spoke with Thacker.  Thacker claimed to be 90% cured.    It took me 2 minutes to find this post just by scrolling back through older posts.  For the sake of disclosure and honesty, I am not a believer in this method.  But, this is the 411  8)

By request I am posting a newly revised version of the Thacker Formula to this topic.


Thacker Formula-Revised…12/17/05

An Informational,

My communications with Thacker confirmed much of what was believed from the little information initially given. The discussions covered the following, Thackers use and results of his Grandfathers Formula…..Doctor Thacker, Thacker stated that Peyronies Disease starting with Doctor Thacker, who suffered from Peyronies Disease, as well as his uncles, father and himself. It seems to indicate in theory that Thackers family from his Grandfather to himself had a Genetic Pre-Disposition to this disease. Thacker indicated to me that DMSO and its quality was of the utmost importance, as expressed to him by Doctor Thacker and clarified many times. Unfortunatly, the source of Doctor Thackers DMSO is unknown. This does not negate the other two ingredients in any way and their importance to the formula. Thacker confirmed the 70%-20%-10% mixture as what was used by him. Thacker did stress that a high quality Apple Cider Vinegar be used, I told him that many men were using organic ACV and he did not agree nor disagree, but additional research indicated and confirmed that Organic ACV should be used. Castor Oil is generic in nature, so any brand will do. Thacker said that his Grandfather used the formula on men with Dupuytrens Contracture, aka (DC), he did not mention results, but it was used never the less.

Taking nothing from Thacker, it must be understood that he was for the most part a “user” of this formula, and did not in fact know much as to what the components did or why. His Grandfather mixed it for him; Doctor Thacker pre-mixed the formula, and gave it to him as needed with instructions on how to apply it.



I suggest strict self-obedience with the treatment and trust that it will work. It takes some time.
You must keep the wrap soaked during application.
The garlic odor from the application could be bathed off and a scented cream such as Aloe Vera applied to the penis after application, but the internal odor that omits through the skin pores and breath, is something you have to live with, and I can only suggest strong breath mints and wear cologne to envelop the smell. That will usually cover it. My own personal research has concluded that gently massaging the plaque after application is acceptable as long as it does not incur pain. Do this for about five-ten minutes.


THE FOLLOWING IS A DIRECT QUOTE FROM THACKER TO ME

QUOTE
“I usually followed my evening application with a hot bath and massaged the plaque forcefully but not painfully. It took about three to four months for me to start seeing results and then positive results started coming quickly. The hard nodules will suddenly start getting soft. They may break apart. Once that starts happening things improve fast. You should realize increased erection quality right off the bat. The DMSO
will smooth the muscle in the penis.”
“Once the hard nodules start getting soft or breaking up into bits. It took about six more months of application and message to finish it off. My penis then healed almost back to pre-Peyronies Disease. I would say that I am 90% where I was. I no longer have any hard pieces of plaque in my penis. I have one small indentation left where a huge piece of plaque was that did not heal all the way back. The curve will reduce slowly as plaque resolves. I started with a 50 degree curve when it was at its worse, and now, no noticeable curve”
END QUOTE


Mixing Procedure,

You MUST, wash your hands with any type of hand or body soap prior to the mixing process.
The formula CAN be premixed. How many days in advance were not discussed with Thacker but all indications lead to 3-5 days. The premixed batch must be sealed when not in use and kept at room temperature. (DO NOT refrigerate premixed batches). The formula is comprised of 70%DMSO-20%Apple Cider Vinegar-10%Castor OIL. In order to mix the formula use three separate 10cc syringes and draw the liquid up to the 1, 2, or 7 mark depending on the liquid. Then squirt each one into a small glass bowl and mix well with an eyedropper.


Application Method.

Warm the formula prior to use; this should be common to its application. Soak the mixture on a flannel sheet of cloth (NO coloring, MUST be white) or an appropriately sized strip of sterilized gauze. Wrap the cloth completely around the penis, then to hold it in place use white medical tape, rubber bands or uncolored string. Do this application once daily (the evening hours would be preferable to most), and as consistently as possible through the week. The duration in time should not be less then 1/2 hour, although 1-2 hours is favored. DO NOT refrigerate pre- mixed batches, if you do, throw that batch away. Also, if you get redness or blistering, discontinue use and apply Diaper Rash Medicine or Aloe Vera to ease the problem and correct it. Once corrected continue treatment.


CAUTION!
DMSO is a very safe solvent when purchased in a pharmaceutical grade of at least 99.96% purity.
While the bottle is open and/or the batch is being pre-mixed be very cautious and not get it into you eyes. If you do go the nearest E.R, they will know how to treat you with an eyewash.
Also, pure DMSO is not to be taken internally. The same conditions apply as to the above remedy.

DMSO is a very powerful delivery agent, meaning that it will transfer thru your skin and into your body anything on your hands, so it MUST be used under Sterile Conditions.


DMSO on line Purchase Sites,

www.webvitamin.com Natures gift
www.lifesvigor.com Natures Gift
www.herbalremedies.com Clinic Service Co.
www.kornax.com Rich’s



I am not a Doctors and do not profess to be, I am however, an avid researchers and bring this treatment to you with no promise of efficacy but, but most assuredly a sparkle of hope.
This formula is an ALTERNATIVE, non-Medicinal treatment. Years of research have been invested by me and another Peyronies Disease survivor who’s research efforts played a solid role in putting this formula together thus allowing me to put this formula in writing for all Peyronies Disease sufferers to try. Your Doctors may attempt to convince you that the use of this treatment is flippant; the ultimate decision to use this treatment is up to you. The general statement Doctors use is, “it has no basis in science”, to that I say, tell that to the many men who have had efficacious results. Also, there are NO RX contraindications to this formula and it’s not invasive. Used as directed, it is as dangerous as taking an aspirin.


Good Luck,
Barry, aka, PDFTD,
Peyronies Disease researcher,Advocate and Survivor for 12 years
 
 
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bodoo2u

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #151 on: October 23, 2007, 06:23:45 PM »

Hawk,

I didn't mean to write "cure"; I know it's just a treatment that may or may not yield results. I still may or may not use it, especially if it causes scarring. Heck, It's funny-looking enough without adding scars to it.

Liam,

Thanks for reposting the instructions. You guys are the greatest.

Hey, I'm getting more comfortable with weating my traction device under my clothes. I guess I look like an old man when I'm trying to climb stairs, because I don't lift up my legs very high. LOL
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soxfan

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #152 on: October 23, 2007, 11:53:50 PM »

Gents,

The following article about dmso is a must read, imho. :)

DMSO’s Many Potential Medical Applications
Since the early 1960s, DMSO’s pharmacological actions and efficacy have been documented in hundreds of laboratory studies. According to Dr. Stanley Jacob, DMSO holds promise in treating the following conditions:

Alzheimer’s disease. DMSO has been shown to dissolve amyloids, the proteins that occur in the hallmark brain lesions of patients with Alzheimer’s and almost invariably lead to the functional loss and eventual death of brain cells.

Arthritis. With its ability to penetrate tissues, DMSO shows value in reducing pain and inflammation in osteoarthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, and possibly gout.

Atherosclerosis. In laboratory animals, DMSO has demonstrated its ability to retard the development of atherosclerosis induced by dietary cholesterol, as well as suppress the accumulation of cholesterol in tissues despite severe hypercholesterolemia (elevated blood levels of cholesterol).

Down’s syndrome. Researchers have noted that when children born with Down’s syndrome were treated with DMSO, mental and neurological functions improved in a number of areas.

Drug extravasation injury. When chemotherapy drugs exude into surrounding tissues (extravasate), the effects are highly damaging. DMSO application significantly improved anthracycline-associated extravasation tissue injury in a study conducted by Stephen B. Strum, MD, a member of the Life Extension Foundation’s Scientific Advisory Board.

Fibromyalgia. According to Dr. Jacob, 70% of fibromyalgia patients he treated with DMSO for several years experienced benefits with no side effects. He believes these effects were due to pharmacological actions of DMSO such as free-radical scavenging, analgesia, anti-inflammation, softening of scar tissue, reduction of muscle spasms, and stimulation of healing.

Herpes. DMSO has been used to enhance penetration of alpha-interferon ointment in the treatment of herpes.

Interstitial cystitis. Instilling DMSO in the urinary bladder is an FDA-approved palliative treatment for this chronic inflammatory condition.

Malignancy. Researchers concluded DMSO exerts a significant survival advantage in gastric cancer.

Plastic surgery adjunct. DMSO has been shown to aid healing and reduce pain and swelling.

Prostatitis. Significant symptomatic relief occurred when DMSO was injected by catheter into the prostatic urethra.

Reflex sympathetic dystrophy. DMSO helps relieve the pain of this condition, an autonomic nervous system disorder characterized primarily by overwhelming pain in the extremities. Dr. Jacob notes that in Holland, a physician is breaking the law if he does not prescribe topical DMSO for reflex sympathetic dystrophy.

Scleroderma. In basic work done at the Cleveland Clinic, topical DMSO was found to have an anti-inflammatory effect while increasing blood supply to the skin.

Spinal cord injury. Data shows that if DMSO is given intravenously within the first 45-60 minutes after injury, the number of laboratory animals that recover was much higher than in those not receiving DMSO. Dr. Jacob says this is an area he would like to pursue, noting, “If we have 10,000 severe spinal cord injuries per year in the US—quadriplegic and paraplegic—there could be fewer patients who will need long-term care.”

Stroke. DMSO combined with a sugar that fuels energy production was well tolerated in elderly stroke patients, and could be of benefit in reducing neurological disability after stroke.

Ulcerative colitis. In controlled human studies, orally administered DMSO produced some improvement in the condition.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/jul2007_cover_dmso_02.htm

bodoo2u,

I get my dmso(99.9% pure, 16oz liquid)  from the following on-line retailer. I of course have no affiliation with the company, just trying to be of help. :)
http://www.herbalremedies.com/dmso.html?source=google&engine=adwords!32&keyword=%28dmso%29&match_type=&gclid=CJym6rzQpo8CFQGdPAodqkIcRw

Cheers.



 
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Hawk

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Re: Soxfan - Where is the Beef
« Reply #153 on: October 24, 2007, 12:42:48 AM »

I am open minded but I did not see the specifics of ONE SINGLE study.  If those unbelievable statements are true, there must be a ton of information available on the studies, the details of what controls were in place, the results, etc.

If you know of any such documented studies by reputable, unbiased sources, please give us the unformation.

If you don't, then it remains nothing but another outlandish internet claim.
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whygodwhy

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where should i get dmso?
« Reply #154 on: November 14, 2007, 09:27:24 PM »

im not sure whether or not i should buy the 16 oz dmso listed below or pay extra for a brand from peyronies-disease-help.com that has msm and paba in it as well:

http://www.natural-complementary-medicine.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=18

its twice as much money for a quater the amount

will a cheaper brand thats 99% pure work just as well?
and does it matter if i get gel or spray or concentrate?
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Liam

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Re: DMSO Cheap
« Reply #155 on: November 15, 2007, 06:20:44 AM »

WGW,

IMHO, You will get the same results from either.  ;)
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soxfan

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Re: where should i get dmso?
« Reply #156 on: November 15, 2007, 01:37:58 PM »

im not sure whether or not i should buy the 16 oz dmso listed below or pay extra for a brand from peyronies-disease-help.com that has msm and paba in it as well:

http://www.natural-complementary-medicine.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=18

its twice as much money for a quater the amount

will a cheaper brand thats 99% pure work just as well?
and does it matter if i get gel or spray or concentrate?

WGW,

Just get the plain 99.9 dmso just as Thacker himself suggested. The ms, paba and other stuff is not necessary.

Cheers.
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whygodwhy

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #157 on: November 15, 2007, 11:13:17 PM »

thanks guys, ill go ahead and order the 99.9% DMSO

im looking forward to trying out the thacker's formula.  i read in a post that dmso can be risky, is that true?  i know its bad to get in your eyes or swallow (ie common sense)  but if i do it wrong somehow could it make my Peyronies Disease worse? :-\
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Hawk

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #158 on: November 16, 2007, 08:16:44 AM »

DMSO is a transdermal agent.  It will transport ANYTHING & EVERYTHING below a certain molecular weight into the tissue.  That could include everything from contaminants on your hands to dyes in any cloth that come in contact with it.

I have heard from a veterinarian that it can be demonstrated that certain dyes can be put on the palm of the hand and when DMSA is added the color will penetrate to the back of the hand.  I do know that you can often literally taste DMSO within a minute of getting it on your hands.

Wash your skin where applying it, as well as your hands, and make sure there are no dyes or contaminates on any cloth that comes in contact with the DMSO.

Wash your hands when finished to get any DMSO off before handling other things that could have chemical contaminates.
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Liam

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Re: Just Say NO to DMSO
« Reply #159 on: November 18, 2007, 07:52:03 AM »

Quote
I have heard from a veterinarian that it can be demonstrated that certain dyes can be put on the palm of the hand and when DMSA is added the color will penetrate to the back of the hand.  I do know that you can often literally taste DMSO within a minute of getting it on your hands.

Now mix with vinegar and castor oil and soak your penis...

Hawk is right to encourage using caution.

This "formula" is ridiculous.  Use the DMSO to clean your floors, the vinegar (ACV) on your salad and...well... you know what the casto oil is good for.

I'm glad this info is here and you are free to try it.  I just have to throw in my objections.

BTW, I have a formula: Windex and olive oil (OO) for a "Big Fat Greek Penis" 
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soxfan

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #160 on: November 20, 2007, 07:23:23 PM »

If anyone wishes to discuss the Thacker formula without being subjected to ridicule from people who have not used the DAMNED thing then please contact me via pm, THANKS!!!!
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Liam

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Re: The Damned Thing, aka: Thacker's
« Reply #161 on: November 20, 2007, 09:42:25 PM »

Sorry Soxfan.  I call it like I see it.  My post represents my opinion just as yours do.  Although I am stongly opposed to this concoction, I would not want to remove the topic.  I am also glad you post your opinion on it.

If in the more than two years I have been posting here and reading about Thackers I had heard of one legitimate scientific study showing positive results, I might be singing a different tune.

This and the fact DMSO is a transdermal agent is the reason I will not try it. 

Go ahead and try it.  Just understand there are those who think its a hoax.  And, if it turns out to be the cure, I will eat crow, happily.
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soiDisant

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DMSO Downside?
« Reply #162 on: December 13, 2007, 12:34:15 PM »

All,

I've read this thread and the other (1000 posts) related to DMSO. The only problem I see in trying the stuff is the potential for permanent damage. I might be wrong - it was alot to read, after all - but I saw no posts complaining of such damage. If it doesn't wor, it doesn't work; so long as it does no harm.

But at least one person complained about diminished erectile function while using DMSO. Can others weigh in on their experience of DMSO from this perspective? I would be most grateful to glean some kind of consensus WRT the stuff's potential for impairing erectile function. 

Thanks.
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Hawk

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Re: soiDisant - DMS0
« Reply #163 on: December 13, 2007, 01:35:55 PM »

soiDisant,

Welcome to the forum.  I pretty much agree with your assessment
Quote
If it doesn't wor, it doesn't work; so long as it does no harm.

The other 1000 post thread was an achieve retrieved after it was deleted from a forum that is now pretty much dead.   Since it is an old archive, I think you will actually find few active members still around that use it although a few probably do.
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soiDisant

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #164 on: December 13, 2007, 03:40:06 PM »

Thanks for the welcome, Hawk.

I was indeed aware that the "1000 posts" thread was a restored archive. But your comment has me wondering whether or not DMSO has fallen "out of favor" for forum members; and if so, why?



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MichaelBaker

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions (Bakers remedy)
« Reply #165 on: December 31, 2007, 12:16:40 PM »

Hello group,

I just joined after I was doing some research on DMSO. I have been using DMSO in a concoction I developed for a scar and joint pain. It has worked extremely well in removing plaque and lessening scarring. It is up to you to do your homework with these chemicals and decide for yourself if it is safe for you. I will assume no liability for your errors or lack of judgement.
I only ask that you report back with the results of your own experiments. Good or bad.

I am sure this post will be given very critical reveiw for the lack of previous knowledge on my experiment, but I am sure that this will work for your affliction also (Peyronies). The DMSO is only one part of the mixture, but it is important.

Possibly more important is a product now called MMS. It is sodium chorite %28 solution, activated with lemon juice. If you can get past all the miraculous claims and try it, it has been reported to strip the plaque from clogged arteries. please go slow on this off you have any heart problems. If you want to try it before you put it anywhere special, try brushing your teeth with it for a week and see if your dental plaque is gone.

To strengthen cells and heal scarring I use a transdermal magnesium oil. I have bought it from Global Light, I dont get paid for this, buy it where you want, just make sure that you get the natural oil and not the jell.

I use natural iodine in the solution, it also promotes healthy cell function.

I use 99.9 DMSO, again buy it where you want.

Now the recipe.

20 drops of MMS

add 100 drops of lemon juice, real lemon from the plastic lemon at the grocery store works great.

let these two ingredients sit for three minutes and the acid from the lemon juice will react with the MMS. There will be a very strong smell of Chlorine gas from the reaction.
Now add one tablespoon of the magnesium oil
Now add one tablespoon of the DMSO
Now add one dropper of the iodine

stir, you will feel heat from the mixing of these things, try it on some tender skin and look for an adverse reaction. If your skin is to sensitive for the solution at 100% dilute with a small amount of distilled water.

when you get the strength that wont burn willie apply and let sit, do this as many times per day that you are able. As long as the solution has that chlorine smell it will be working, discard after the smell of chlorine is no longer present.

I am sure that the flames will be coming, but if just one or two of you try this and report back with your "cure" then the others will follow suit.

I make no claim as to being anything other than the developer of this recipe and place it freely in the public domain for all to use for personal use only. I assume no liability for any results that you may have. We just may have to develope our own health remedies when the drug companies cannot make enough profit from easily obtainable homeopathic remedies such as this.

Michael Baker
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Tim468

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #166 on: December 31, 2007, 02:22:10 PM »

Welcome Michael Baker,

Could you share how you came up with the ingredients that you did, and why the proportions?

Tim
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George999

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Re: New DMSO based formula ...
« Reply #167 on: December 31, 2007, 03:06:38 PM »

Michael, welcome and thank you so much for sharing this information.  While I personally do not touch DMSO, I know a number of people who frequent this forum do.  And I am sure that there are some out there who are really looking for new approaches in using it.  Certainly what works for one person may not work for another AND what is harmless to one person might create a toxic reaction for another.  After all, even peanuts can be deadly to some of us.  It is also EXTREMELY important that it be used correctly to avoid potentially devastating unintended consequences.  So I fully understand your disclaimers and anyone planning on trying it should study its use very carefully including posts on this forum by Hawk and Liam.  And this is NOT to say don't use it, it is rather to say use it very cautiously and with great respect.  You are also dead on in noting that these types of approaches are anathema to the drug companies.  They are actually very up front in explaining that they could never make enough money from selling generic commodity based solutions to even begin to pay for the R+D that goes into getting any potential treatment approved.  And, unfortunately, our government(s) do(es) not consider public health a high enough priority to fund this type of research that private enterprise cannot profitably perform.  So all I can say is that I hope some daring individual will give it a try and hopefully it proves to be a breakthrough that can benefit many.  So thank you so much for posting the information.  - George
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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #168 on: December 31, 2007, 08:46:36 PM »

I came to this forum to give back to society. I felt compelled to help others in a way that I was helped.

The real story is the MMS protocol by Jim Humble. I don't have the time to go into that side of it for this forum. The activated sodium chlorite is his and I have personally seen mind blowing results from it. I have gotten over a dozen people started on it. It is truly amazing stuff.

The mixture I came up with was trial and error, I burnt the side of my face for a week, but the age spot I applied it to has faded drastically, enough to not be noticable anymore. I actually made the formula to be applied to my feet. That is how I fine tuned what I put in it. My feet haven't look this good since I went to high school gym class and got some fungus that I never could get rid of, at least until now. My feet are soft and toenails look as healthy as ever.

The part of this that would apply to Peronies is what it did to my scar, raised and a hard white crest. It softened and is now pink and seems to be fading still. That is why I posted to this forum. I have had no erection problems.

I understand the fear of dmso. I did a lot of reading. I know that the finest race horses in the world get dmso and some of the greatest names in sports also covertly use the stuff. I would never perpetuate a hoax, at least I believe I am honest. My hope is that some brave soul out there tries this and gets results similar to mine and feels compelled to report back to the group and maybe a lot of you would have favorable results. I could at least tell St Pete that I did try to give back a little.
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Hawk

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Re: MichaelBaker
« Reply #169 on: December 31, 2007, 09:01:23 PM »

Michael,

1.  Are you saying you have Peyronies Disease and this helped?

2. Have you gotten 5 men to try this on Peyronies Disease or for other things like nice feet?

3. If the 5 men had Peyronies Disease, what forum were they on?

4. I have been on every Peyronies Disease forum around for a some years and I never heard of Jack Humble.  Who is he and where did you meet him?


You must understand that you cannot say I am too busy to go into details, just try this undocumented concoction and trust the integrity of an unknown name on the internet.
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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #170 on: December 31, 2007, 09:56:54 PM »

points taken hawk,

"Jim Humble MMS Protocol" a simple google search yields 1290 hits
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=jim+humble+mms+protocol.

This is a relatively new and unknown protocol. Very few have tried it, just seems to good to be true. There are a few forums for this protocol already, and it REALLY is beyond the scope of what I have time or inclination for. I do know that is seems to dissolve plaque and that is what ties it into Peyrones.

The activated MMS protocol combined with dmso, magnesium and iodine has only been tried by one person that I know, but then again, I am just an unknown name on the internet. I do freely offer up my time to provide what has worked for me and others I know personally, There are others in this forum already experimenting with DMSO, this is mainly for them, I feel that the MMS adds another potential booster for what they are trying to do. The magnesium and iodine are essential for healthy cell development. If this concontion is going to work, a week is probably all the time you would need to see improvement, milage will of course vary.
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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #171 on: December 31, 2007, 10:03:23 PM »

Hawk:

See miraclemineral.org

Mick
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George999

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Re: MMS ...
« Reply #172 on: January 01, 2008, 12:53:51 PM »

Sometimes a "product"s claims are just so off the wall that one has to sleep on the whole nine yards before beginning to really see whats there.  In the case of "activated" MMS as promoted by Jim Humble, I can only conclude this:  Most of the work done in Africa on this was done by "The Malaria Solution" based in Reno Nevada.  The guys behind Malaria Solution appear to have a mining/mineralogy background, money, and a passion to serve humanity.  Jim Humble seems to be the main innovator in this venture.  Personally, I would like to see a little press on this in Africa itself, but if it is indeed a scam, then they have scammed some pretty reputable people who seemingly are involved with them.  I see little motivation for a scam, since they have made this thing so open that there is little money to be made from it.  So the question becomes, "If this thing is so good, why has it not gotten more press and benefited more people?". 

I think there are indeed answers to that question.  First of all, one has to understand that in order for a treatment to be approved, lots of very expensive testing is required.  And this is not the kind of product that could bring forth that kind of investment easily.  Secondly, although I know that Chlorine Dioxide is considered safe at sufficient dilution, it is still a potent substance and this therapy introduces it to the body in a very reactive state.  That alone would scare regulators to death, or if it didn't it should.  Using it to treat dying villagers in Africa is one thing, using it for things like Peyronies in the US is another.  At this point, the reality is, we really have no data on what the potential initial random side effects might be, nor do we have long term data to indicate long term outcomes.

And that leads to a third concern for me.  If I was dying of HIV or even Cancer, I would latch on to something like this without a lot of hesitation.  But Peyronies?  Or foot fungus?  Some of you might be willing to chance it, but I can tell you, not me.  I would be looking at a lot more conservative treatments than that.

Yet another concern for me is the whole known pharmacology surrounding Chlorine Dioxide.  For those of you who might not understand what Chlorine Dioxide is, it is actually probably one of the most whiz bang wide spectrum pathogen killers known to man.  It destroys bacteria, viruses, fungi, and parasites.  Yet it does so in concentrations that are not discernibly toxic to people.  For this reason it is rapidly replacing common chlorination for water supplies and it is on the short list of potential solutions for Homeland Security people in the US.  It is even used to cleanse human blood of HIV.  But REMEMBER, current use is all OUTSIDE of the body.  This treatment, for the first time, moves that treatment to INSIDE the body.  Hello!

Another aspect to consider is that there is simply no known way that this treatment could work against NON-INFECTIOUS afflictions like Cancer, Peyronies, and other forms of Fibrosis, UNLESS that NON-INFECTIOUS disease is in fact driven by an infectious disease, and that can happen.  My suspicion is that Mr. Humble has seen Cancer knocked out with this stuff in Africa, but in reality, it knocked out the underlying HIV and THAT cured the Cancer.  I extremely doubt that it can cure a typical case of Cancer, because the underlying pharmacology is just not there, UNLESS all Cancers are pathogenic at the core and that would be a huge stretch.  And of course Peyronies would be in the same ballpark with Cancer, not likely.

So to sum up, the likelyhood of this working on Peyronies in my estimation is slim, and the risks are high with Jim's oral solution, but at least it has APPARENTLY been tried on a wide scale.  On the other hand, at this point it would seem that we have no more than a small handful of people, if that, who have actually tried administering it transdermally with DMSO.  Personally, I see all kinds of caution flags here.  I DEEPLY appreciate that Michael has shared this with us, and I do think it is something that needs to be investigated, but personally, I would proceed with a whole lot of caution.

- George
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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #173 on: January 01, 2008, 02:09:26 PM »

Dear Michael Baker

Thanks or sharing your thoughts. I was disappointed with the references - they are all anecdotal, and have no peer reviewed science. The reasons for this are well described by George, but in fact it IS possible to study non-patentable medications for other uses to "serve humanity", even though the profit motive is absent. I have participated in multi-center studies of Advil to treat chronic inflammation in cystic fibrosis, and no one was going to get rich doing that.

If someone is willing to try it, I hope to hear from them. I would be unwilling personally to try it. YMMV

Tim
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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #174 on: February 27, 2008, 06:38:11 PM »

Out of nostalgia, I was reading the thread on "Thacker's Formula."  I recall now that I used TF for about 9 months I believe, starting in Jan. of 2004.  At that time, I had some distal flacidity but no bend or pain.  I was using TF to see if it would do something to the scarring causing the distal flacidity.  It didn't, but it did improve my erections, very quickly in fact, as I recall.  I also remember bouts of skin blistering/peeling in the early days of using it - nothing bad enough to make me stop though.  Eventually, it seemed like it wasn't doing anything for me (other than the erection quality), so I stopped using it. 

Anyone else have memories (fond or otherwise) of Thacker's Formula?  I remember being very excited at the time as it was getting a lot of positive posts.  I really thought we were on to something!  Care to share your experience?

Nemo
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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #175 on: June 06, 2009, 05:41:32 PM »

It's about time someone gave this neglected thread some lovin'. ;)

I first found out about DMSO through the resveratrol forum at imminst.org. Folks there were discussing it as a means to enhance transdermal absorption of resveratrol. Another application was using DMSO and resveratrol topically for eczema, where it was reported to work very well for some. The forum's goal was to get high peak plasma levels of resveratrol. The conclusion there was that transdermal application with DMSO was not the best solution for achieving this, but that it might be useful for parts of the body like joints that don't have a lot of blood circulation.

Question: does the tunica albuginea area affected by the plaques get a lot of blood? It's a "fibrous envelope" according to wikipedia. The corpus cavernosum certainly does, but that's not what's damaged.

Here are my ideas for a few things to try with DMSO:

resveratrol: it has fibrolytic properties, including in pulmonary and cardiac fibrosis (PMID 17875610). PMID 17943548 is interesting too; subcutaneous injections of resveratrol reduced adhesions that were induced in rats.

serrapeptase: some evidence for it helping to clear scar tissue. It was helpful in fibro-cystic breast disease (PMID 2688125). I wonder though if this weren't more a result of it breaking down biofilms of pathogens.

nattokinase: supposedly a strong fibrolytic (here's some data from company selling it). From PMID 16899918, "In vitro and in vivo studies have consistently demonstrated the potent pro-fibrinolytic effect of the enzyme".

vitamin A and the other oil soluble vitamins
: Looking back on some of the earlier postings on the Thackers formula, I see that it included cod liver oil, which is a good source of the oil soluble vitamin A. From an LEF.org article on fibrinogen, "High serum vitamin A and beta-carotene levels have been associated with reduced fibrinogen levels in humans". A good DMSO recipe might include the 4 fat soluble vitamins (A, D, E, and K) too.

I'll be trying some of these out and reporting back.

s&s

Edit:
potassium iodide might be important too. One hypothesis I'm researching is whether low potassium iodide intake causes the abnormal scarring in Peyronies Disease (Peyronies Disease is more common in those with gout and high blood sugar, IIRC). I'd like to try topical SSKI if I could find a source ...
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Re:Slow and Steady
« Reply #176 on: June 06, 2009, 11:11:27 PM »

Keep in mind you need to know the molecular weight of a substance because DMSO only transports substances within a certain molecular weight range.  (I do not remember the range off the top of my head but it is easy to look up.)
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newguy

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #177 on: June 08, 2009, 12:03:01 AM »


I do think that this method of treatment does hold some promise, but its very much a case of entering the unknown as there are so many substances that could be used, and so many variables at play. Maybe mixing several potential treatments together (vitamins, serrapeptase etc)and applying them could make a difference over time. Any treatment, even if effective, may take a long time to actually bring about results, so using individual substances would be troublesome, as cycling through them may not be a useful approach. My hunch is that this could be a very good delivery system for peyronie's though, so I'm glad some are willing to give it a try.

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #178 on: June 08, 2009, 01:09:02 AM »

The one vitamin we know for sure would penetrate the skin is vitamin D, since this is how it works in nature.

Normally, it's produced on the skin and absorbed over a period of a day or two. Soap and water will take it right off.

s&s
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newguy

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #179 on: June 08, 2009, 01:28:44 AM »

When I looked into topical ibuprofen, the available studies appear to suggest that in knee injuries it is absorbed through the skin and into the cartilage in much higher doses than oral doses. This at least shows that sometimes applying topically, can be as, if not more effective than oral doses. Therefore maybe using a DMSO delivery system with various substances could be more achievable than we'd first think. As hawk points out, it likely depends on the substances in question. Still, I think it's an area worthy of exploration. If substances can reach the area, I would think that it'd sometimes make sense to topically apply rather than orally.

As a child I suffered bad burns to my hand, as was told that it would be scarred for life. A school teacher advised me to apply vitamin E topically each day. I did this and in time the scar went away completely. Of course , this is not a direct comparison, but I doubt the scar would've cleared up with oral vitamin E (unless of course it would've gone naturally). Therefore getting to a problem area topically is surely a viable route if it is achievable. I'm not suggesting that using this method is an easy or effective as inflammation or scarring on the skin, but maybe it can be the next best thing.

An argued against this approach I suppose is that DMSO could transport anything into the body. A careful approach would therefore be needed. Another argued against this approach is that some would say that peyronies is more of a whole body disease which has manifested itself in the shape of peyronie's. That's valid, though I'm of the opinion that in some individuals the problem is more localised, and in others it's more of a whole body issue. Just my view. Besides, if someone applies something topically, theres nothing to stop them taking oral supplements too. I'll watch this thread with interest.


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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #180 on: June 08, 2009, 11:14:52 PM »

Other things that come to mind as potential ingredients for a DMSO recipe are niacinamide with taurine and SSKI or Lugol's solution. Oh, and let's not forget vitamin E.
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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #181 on: June 09, 2009, 06:47:32 PM »

My urologist recommended over a year ago that I try this gel that he had a natural pharmacy make for me. I posted about it a while back - it's a topical ointment made of EDTA (a chelating agent, presumably to prevent/ameliorate calcification) and ALC. The drawback? It costs 100 dollars a month. I struggled to continue it for 5 months, and saw no improvement. I think it was because I was in the inflammatory phase - being just out of college, I couldn't afford the full treatment, and since I couldn't see visible improvement in 5 months I stopped treatment.

After a new inflammatory phase and new plaques, in addition to a better-paying job, I've restarted the treatment -- but I was wondering if I could bolster the effects of the ointment by applying a layer of DMSO before applying the ointment. I was simply worried about the safety of getting the treatment elsewhere in the penis. As my situation looks more and more grim, I might feel as if I have less to lose and try it out. I will report my findings at that time. I don't even know if the EDTA or ALC will be carried transdermally by the DMSO or not, but I do remember how well just the DMSO worked to help the pain and redness of inflammation when I was using it.
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slowandsteady

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #182 on: June 09, 2009, 10:51:48 PM »

You can always make your own. EDTA is over the counter now. ALC of course you can buy, just like DMSO. My thought is that vitamin K (K2-MK4 in the oil-based Thorne drops) might be just as good as EDTA.

I think it's a good recipe though.

My urologist recommended over a year ago that I try this gel that he had a natural pharmacy make for me. I posted about it a while back - it's a topical ointment made of EDTA (a chelating agent, presumably to prevent/ameliorate calcification) and ALC. The drawback? It costs 100 dollars a month. I struggled to continue it for 5 months, and saw no improvement. I think it was because I was in the inflammatory phase - being just out of college, I couldn't afford the full treatment, and since I couldn't see visible improvement in 5 months I stopped treatment.

After a new inflammatory phase and new plaques, in addition to a better-paying job, I've restarted the treatment -- but I was wondering if I could bolster the effects of the ointment by applying a layer of DMSO before applying the ointment. I was simply worried about the safety of getting the treatment elsewhere in the penis. As my situation looks more and more grim, I might feel as if I have less to lose and try it out. I will report my findings at that time. I don't even know if the EDTA or ALC will be carried transdermally by the DMSO or not, but I do remember how well just the DMSO worked to help the pain and redness of inflammation when I was using it.
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slowandsteady

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #183 on: June 10, 2009, 09:16:13 AM »

I got a few 2 ounce cobalt blue bottles with eyedroppers from Ebay.

Recipe No. 1
DMSO: 10 half droppers full
Vitamin A: 40000 IU
Vitamin D: 20000 IU
Vitamin E: Jarrow Toco-Sorb, contents of 2 softgels
Vitamin K: 20 mg from the Thorne drops
ALC: 125 mg

I used it last night (10 drops or so) without any irritation this morning. I plan on first trying nattokinase by itself and then If that is gentle then adding it to the mix. This recipe has a slight orange tinge from the palm oil in the vitamin E I used.

s&s
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Hawk

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Re: Careful
« Reply #184 on: June 10, 2009, 09:33:49 AM »

I have never used DMSO as a personal treatment of any kind but I have used it as veterinary treatments on animals so I am pretty familiar with it.

For starters, applying a layer of DMSO first will never work because DMSO is absorbed almost on contact.  You can watch a drop of DMSO disappear.  In fact you can taste DMSO within seconds of getting it on your hand.  This indicates to me that it must move through vessel walls quickly.

Next, molecular weight IS EVERYTHING  with any DMSO solution.  It carries EVERYTHING within a certain molecular weight into the tissue.  This includes toxins, impurities, clothing dye, etc.

It carries NOTHING outside of this specific molecular weight range so mixing those things with DMSO does nothing.

You best know that nothing is getting carried along with the solution you mix (impurities) and you must know how the solution you mix will effect the tissue.

Finally, you have no real control and no research to determine how deep the DMSO solution penetrates before it is carried away from the site.
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slowandsteady

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Re: Careful
« Reply #185 on: June 10, 2009, 10:37:23 PM »

I have never used DMSO as a personal treatment of any kind but I have used it as veterinary treatments on animals so I am pretty familiar with it.

For starters, applying a layer of DMSO first will never work because DMSO is absorbed almost on contact.  You can watch a drop of DMSO disappear.  In fact you can taste DMSO within seconds of getting it on your hand.  This indicates to me that it must move through vessel walls quickly.
I don't apply it first, but in a mixture. You may have a point that it would best to apply the mix without DMSO first, and after a while the DMSO.
Quote
Next, molecular weight IS EVERYTHING  with any DMSO solution.  It carries EVERYTHING within a certain molecular weight into the tissue.  This includes toxins, impurities, clothing dye, etc.

It carries NOTHING outside of this specific molecular weight range so mixing those things with DMSO does nothing.

You best know that nothing is getting carried along with the solution you mix (impurities) and you must know how the solution you mix will effect the tissue.
I find reassuring that all of my ingredients are vitamins or at least orally safe. I'll watch for irritation.
Quote
Finally, you have no real control and no research to determine how deep the DMSO solution penetrates before it is carried away from the site.
I don't need it to go far, just into the tunica albuginea. It's a fibrous envelope, it's connective tissue, and so doesn't have a lot of circulation. That's why I'm hoping the topical route will be beneficial.

s&s
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slowandsteady

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #186 on: June 11, 2009, 06:42:44 PM »

"Nattokinase is a relatively small size protein with molecular weight of 27.7 kDa [13]. The protein radius, calculated to be 21 Å".

Hawk, do you know what range of particle sizes DMSO works best with?

s&s
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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #187 on: June 14, 2009, 06:30:48 PM »

I too am interested in DMSO, slowandsteady let me know if you see a positive effect, I may also try it sooner than later.

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slowandsteady

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Re: iodine
« Reply #188 on: June 18, 2009, 09:36:46 AM »

Hint of the day: While SSKI has been recommended for topical application with DMSO, Lugol's solution is not. Lugol's has molecular iodine in addition to KI and will cause irritation when used with DMSO.
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Hawk

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Re: Slowandsteady
« Reply #189 on: June 19, 2009, 12:20:57 AM »

I am sorry.  I used to know the molecular weight of transport but I am not sure now since it has been a while since I even thought about it.  You may find some info on this site.  It may be somewhere on this site however. http://www.dmso.org/articles/information/herschler.htm
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slowandsteady

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Re: molecular weights for DMSO transport
« Reply #190 on: June 19, 2009, 07:17:18 PM »

Thanks Hawk, that link was very helpful.

So, from that source we read that "[n]onionized molecules of low molecular wight are transported through the skin with DMSO". I was a little surprised that weight was mentioned instead of molecule size.

One substance that has been tested with DMSO for transport across the skin is morphine sulfate, which has a molecular weight of  668.76 (Da, presumably). Insulin is noted to be too big for passage at 5808 Da. Nattokinase is almost 5 times bigger than that; that's obviously not going to work.

Items in blue should be light enough to work well with DMSO. Items in red look to be too heavy. It looks like enzymes tend to be heavier molecules.

Molecular weights of popular anti-Peyronies Disease supplements
vitamin A = 286.46 Da
vitamin D = 396.65 Da
vitamin E = 430.72 Da (alpha tocopherol)
vitamin E = 416.68 Da (gamma tocopherol)
vitamin K2-MK4 = 444.65 Da
vitamin K2-MK7 = 649 Da (note how the additional sidechains increase the weight)
niacinamide = 122.12 Da
PABA = 137.1 Da
Acetyl-L-Carnitine HCl = 239.70 Da
magnesium ascorbate (vitamin c) = 374.55
rutin = 610.53 Da
astragaloside IV = 784.97 Da
horse chestnut extract = 1131.26 Da

bromelain = 22500 Da
papain = 23000 Da
serrapeptase ~= 60000 Da


A couple of nice findings from the paper Hawk linked:
Quote
The authors recorded that topical DMSO in man exerted a significant effect on the pathological deposition of collagen in human postirradiation subcutaneous fibrosis but did not appear to change the equilibrium of collagen metabolism in normal tissue.

and:
Quote
Berliner and Ruhmann7 found that DMSO inhibited fibroblastic proliferation in vitro.

My first recipe contains the first ingredients through niacinamide (except for the K2-MK7).

s&s
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ocelot556

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #191 on: June 19, 2009, 07:24:40 PM »

DMSO is used in Russia as a treatment for arthritis and related inflammations, I remember reading that somewhere. I used DMSO on my plaque during the first acute inflammatory phase of my disease. It worked well. Only Pentox had a better effect on the pain, which I had to wait a year to get an Rx for.
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slowandsteady

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #192 on: June 20, 2009, 10:55:01 PM »

Transresveratrol also has a low molecular weight of 228.24 Da, which might be great for localized application. Apparently transdermal resveratrol (with DMSO) doesn't result in a particularly high peak blood levels, for which the oral route works better.
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slowandsteady

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #193 on: June 20, 2009, 11:26:03 PM »

EGCG, Epigallocatechin gallate, aka green tea extract. Molecular Weight: 458.4. Good, another antifibrotic with a low molecular weight.
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newguy

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #194 on: July 15, 2009, 01:19:22 AM »

Transresveratrol also has a low molecular weight of 228.24 Da, which might be great for localized application. Apparently transdermal resveratrol (with DMSO) doesn't result in a particularly high peak blood levels, for which the oral route works better.

Out of curiosity did you ever try resveratrol with DMSO?

I saw a report or two on imminst.org relating to a person rubbing  resveratrol into his gums, and in improved their condition (they had been receding). Of course it's entirely anecdotal and not relating to our condition, but it got me to thinking that using it to target peyronie's in a more direct manner, could be useful.
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ocelot556

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #195 on: July 16, 2009, 10:18:12 PM »

I was thinking the other day, I received a topical cream a year ago from my uro, which was ALC mixed with EDTA, a chelating agent. I couldn't use it for the year I was asked to, because it cost 100 dollars a month and was far from covered by insurance. I simply don't have the money, but I usually keep a month's supply around to use when I get flareups.

I was wondering if EDTA would pass through the skin via DMSO. If it could, that has to then be a viable treatment for people who are developing calcification, as EDTA should help chelate them.

I'm glad people are spitballing about DMSO again. I had a good experience dealing with the pain of my initial Peyronies Disease with it - but haven't really continued use, given my relocation to a much shabbier "college-style" house (too dirty to consider using a transdermal agent, can't keep things sterile enough for my cautious nature).

EDIT: I just looked it up, and it says the molecular weight of EDTA is 292.2. Since I have heard some dicussion about circumin on other topics, I decided to look up it's molar weight - it's 368.69. It looks like these are both transportable through the skin via DMSO, if the numbers in the posts below are accurate.
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Re: alt-711
« Reply #196 on: July 30, 2009, 09:39:47 PM »

Alagebrium (ALT-711) also has a low molecular weight of 267.77. Alagebrium has "reversed the upregulation of collagen type I and type III" in the hearts of dogs in this study. These are the two types of collagen that are the most overactive in Peyronies Disease.

newguy, I haven't tried t-res specifically with DMSO. I might try alt-711 first and report back.
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ocelot556

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #197 on: July 31, 2009, 07:07:48 PM »

Now that's a thought. I know there's been speculation that Alagebrium would be too systemic to have a targeted effect on Peyronies Disease. If you could form a mixture of it and DMSO, you could administer the AGE breaker right to the appropriate AGE crosslinks!
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slowandsteady

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #198 on: August 01, 2009, 11:21:23 AM »

If you could form a mixture of it and DMSO, you could administer the AGE breaker right to the appropriate AGE crosslinks!
I'm on day 2 of my trial. I'll update on how it's going. DMSO by itself has been known to soften collagen, and I think my curcumin regime has been quite effective.
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ocelot556

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #199 on: August 01, 2009, 01:29:33 PM »

Are you taking curcumin orally, as well, or just administering it topically?
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by LWillisjr