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Author Topic: DMSO, DMSO based Solutions and TOPICAL Treatments  (Read 259678 times)

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Liam

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DMSO & Pig's Ear
« Reply #100 on: September 17, 2006, 10:07:15 AM »

I shall summarize my thoughts of the application of DMSO, Cider vinegar and Castor oil:

to a Pig's ear - good

to a penis     - bad

On the gulf coast we use Adolph's meat tenderizer for jelly fish stings.  So, it has a medical purpose.  "Meat" tenderizer (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)....hmmmm.  Maybe a good addition to Thackers formula.  After all it tenderizes meat.  And, it will draw the inflammation out like it draws the poison from a jelly fish sting.

Sometimes an analogy may be misleading.  Sometimes not.  Thats why scientific investigation and then scientific testing is done.

Liam
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ComeBacKid

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Evidence tough to come by
« Reply #101 on: September 17, 2006, 11:24:27 AM »

I like Liam often times found myself thinking, is this someones idea of a cruel joke? 

I don't believe so, Barry has told me that he talked to thacker himself and has talked to many people that this has worked for.  I first found out about this thackers on the old BTC jungle forum.  I believe barry and take him at his word.  I did a little research and it does show what Rico has been telling us that DMSO can dissolve or soften old scar tissue.  I've often wondered as Tim has stated, could DMSO carry verapamil or decadron into the plaque or scar tissue itself? 

I wanted to make two more points, one is I've been in touch with soxfan who is seeing results from the VED and using thackers, which he claims has helped to soften his plaque, besides this I was in touch with a man named Nick Foxx off the old BTC, he is registered here but does not post, he used MSM pills for awhile and saw good results and straightening.

Any scientific evidence on this stuff...no of course not, any scientific evidence on the VED's... I have yet to see it, but we now have about 5 people reporting results.  For most of this stuff there is no scientific evidence, thats just the way it is, I think Rico has made enough of a tie with DMSO's ability to dissolve scar tissue and go deep through cell membrames to show it could work, this is all I need to try it.  I don't mind the skeptics and constructive thinking and exchanging ideas, but lets all try to stay away from being CRITICS, we are all in this together.

ComeBackid
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Hawk

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Critics Vs. Skeptics and DMSO
« Reply #102 on: September 17, 2006, 01:56:49 PM »

I don't mind the skeptics and constructive thinking and exchanging ideas, but lets all try to stay away from being CRITICS, we are all in this together.

Critic -1. "on who forms and expresses judgements based on the merits of a matter" 3."one who makes harsh carping judgements"

I am not sure I understand the the difference between the primary definition of a critic and a skeptic, especially when we encourage "critical thinking".  I think we need both.  The attack of a concept with evidence is always good.  The attack on an individual sidetracks the argument and has no place.  Again, in this case I use the term argument to mean "a course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth".  We have had no personal attacks and certainly no "harsh carping judgements".

Now, on to my critical, skeptical view of DMSO.  Which I have used extensively in veterinary applications on birds of prey.

There is no doubt that DMSO will transport substances within the limit of specific molecular weight into tissue.  It is an easily reproduced demonstration.  There is no doubt in my mind that people have used DMSO and improved.  There is doubt in my mind whether DMSO played a role, or if vinegar played a role, the combination, or neither. 

In order to work, DMSO would have to do the following.  Transport a agent that reduces scar tissue past a network of capillaries that would uptake the substances and yet not penetrate beyond the target.  I think we have little other except anecdotal accounts that it can reduce scar tissue or give the targeted delivery needed.

Alternatively, DMSO could reduce inflammation in acute Peyronies Disease.  Or stimulate blood flow that actually helps healing.  I would be interested in how it help heal 2 cuts on a hand, one treated and one not treated.

Many men with Peyronies Disease never have calcified plaque.  I seem to see a line of thought among some that market products and some of us hoping for a really good treatment that goes something like: "A certain drug or concoction really is known to reduce the plaque or scar tissue in the underlying tissue."  Yet no one ever seems to claim these products can eradicate even the tiniest dermal scar much less a keloid that we can easily apply products directly to, then watch, and measure the results.  Sophisticated research has been undertaken to reduce scaring in burn victims, keloids, and surgical adhesions.  It is clear that many things help, but very few of these are included in the list that we use.  I think it is a stretch (I should be PUNished) to think these things only work where we can't see, but would not effect other scar tissue open for examination.
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Tim468

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #103 on: September 17, 2006, 02:01:34 PM »

I think it counts for a great deal to have people who we trust to be honest (like Barry) to say "I used it and I got better". But that is not, as you have mentioned ComeBackid, the scientific method. We are not doing science here, either. we are experimenting, but it is to see if we can make empirical connections (IOW, connections not proven but implid by a connection )(ie not just cause and effect).

In fact, a bunch of positive reports is still not science. What if the guys who responded to ionto of verapamil happened to be posting here and said - "this really worked for me!" Well, it would be inspiring - and we would try it.

The action of DMSO to enter into cells is well known. The action of it "breaking up scar" is not known, and not even close to being proven. The logic behind acidic environments helping, or oil helping is all conjectural.

Yet, someone thought it up and it seems to have helped someone. So... the question is it more than would be healed by a placebo?

Well, I would take a placebo if I thought it would work. God knows I have taken a lot of crap.

So I will be interested to see what helps or does not.

Tim
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ComeBacKid

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Look this isn't Scientific....
« Reply #104 on: September 17, 2006, 02:11:53 PM »

I just want to say to everyone who can point out there is no scientific evidence this can work or to be shown it will work.... I know this.  But for most of the treatments on this forum we have ABSOLUTELY no scientific evidence.  Look to the VED's for example, no studies at all(supposedly there is one out there but not public), and yet I've talked to 5 people who have seen results from the VED

Barry has stated to me that MANY people have seen results from thackers formula, I take him at his word and believe him, and yes this is NOT scientific, since the medical community is not doing much in the way of studies we have to try our own.  From what I've read I have no reason to believe DMSO is dangerous at all what so ever, obviously try everything at your own risk.  My theory is to try every single thing possible to throw at this crap.  I think it is good to be a skeptic and throw and have critical thinkign I do this myself, I was more referring to the jokes, perhaps my definition of a critic and skeptic is confused, critic is the wrong word for what I wanted to say, I meant more in the way of hecklers. 

I trust MOST of the people on this forum, for soxfan to tell me thackers softened his plaque and Barry to tell me it has worked on many people I'll take that as the closest thing to scientific we will get on this topic. 
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Liam

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Surrounding Cells & Critical Thinking
« Reply #105 on: September 17, 2006, 05:28:57 PM »


Why would Thacker's Formula only "attack" plaque and not damage other surrounding cells?  Will long term use completely destroy the functionality of you penis?  If you were betting on this, what would be the odds?  Is it worth the risk?

BTW, I apologize if anyone thinks I'm attacking a person or persons.  I am challenging an idea in an effort to encourage critical thinking.  My tone was and is one I would use with my brothers (as y'all are).

I was taking DHEA until Hawk challenge me to critical thinking.  I am off of it now.  Thank you to Hawk.

Liam


Thacker's spellchecks as Thwacker's  ......hmmmmm.......
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ComeBacKid

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Old Wise Man Where are you?
« Reply #106 on: September 17, 2006, 06:12:46 PM »

I think at this point we seem to have hit a stalemate, Rico you have made some excellent points, Liam and Hawk have challenged the idea of how and why thackers will work, nothing wrong with this either. 

At this point, I think it would be appropriate for Barry to enter the discussion and tell us his stories and how many people he communicated with that said thackers helped them, I think we can all trust Barry(at least I can) as he has been a peyronies advocate for years and a friend of the forum/administrator.  Old Wise man where are you?  Perhaps SoxFan telling us his story might help to convince some of the people, as far as a study we won't get one, won't happen. 

Safety should be the prime concern for all treatments, besides if they will work or not.  I would also like to see more information on safety in regards to DMSO, but for now I think I willl continue using it.

ComeBackid
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Hawk

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Re:ComeBackid
« Reply #107 on: September 17, 2006, 08:17:45 PM »

ComeBackid,

No one is questioning Barry, certainly not me.  But whether Barry relates it first hand or we see a CBS special report on the cases, or read the Thacker threads (which I have read every word of) it does not answer the questions about dermal scars, evidence of DMSO fighting inflammation, non-calcified plaque, or the accuracy of what others reported to Barry.  Believe me, I wish everyone on the forum would try it and report back.  If more than 15% resolved significantly better I would probably give it a try.

I just think anyone using it might as well find another spot of scar tissue on the body, or an active cut or two that they can observe, and do some real experimenting while they are at. Then if someone gets results we could have an active ongoing probing exchange directly with that person.  It will still just be anecdotal evidence, but more interesting.  I clearly expect that if 10 people try it one or two will show some improvement worth mentioning.  That would be expected.  If 3 or 4 show such improvement then is getting interesting.  If 3 or 4 get improvement out of 30 then that is zero improvement because that is on par with "spontaneous improvement.
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percival

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Thacker - apply neat or dilute?
« Reply #108 on: September 23, 2006, 05:26:37 PM »

I have read so much about the Thacker mixture, and I understand that the basic formula is:

Thacker formula, I mix it using 7 teaspoons of 99.9% pure dmso+2 teaspoons of apple cider vinegar+1 teaspoon of castor oil.

However, is the idea to apply this neat or is it supposed to be diluted in water first - if so to what extent?
 
I have read of Rico's trials and he seems to have burnt his 'unit' (a wonderful name for it). As I do not want to duplicate this result - I can imagine having to explain it to the Accident and Emergency department - I would appreciate advice on how to apply the Thacker mixture.
Regards,
Percival
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Hawk

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Re:Percival
« Reply #109 on: September 23, 2006, 07:00:16 PM »

Percival,

I will echo that until you are committed enough to read every word of this thread and the Thacker Formula archive, you should not attempt use of this formula.

While it will not carry bacteria through your skin, it will rapidly transport anything with a molecular weight of less than 1000.  Anything that touches the DMSO, including body parts, cloth, or containers, need to be free of impurities. Wash and then rinse thoroughly to remove soap or fragrances.  It is not unusual to get a taste in your mouth within seconds of getting DMSO on your hands.  It commonly gives an odor to your breath indicating it goes directly into your blood stream and is respirated through the capillaries in the lungs.
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Rico

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Dmso reaction....
« Reply #110 on: September 29, 2006, 02:39:31 PM »

Dear forum members and guest...

I have been using the thacker formula for about six weeks now....I had to take a week off in the beginning when I had some skin irritation...

I notice when I would do it in the beginning my unit would always react, maybe like it was a little shock from the mixture...using the thacker(dmso/acv/castor oil) and I was using more, I put mine on with a eye dropper right on the plaque, like a slow drip, I do this for one to two hours, the most I use is a tablespoon of mixture.... well after four or five days of doing this, my erections start to become non existence and it is hard to stimulate myself....

Now I have been watching this, if I take one or two days off, they pop back....so there is something going on with the thacker....my plaque fills softer and was on the top of septum in one piece, now the middle of it is separated in two pieces, I don't know if it spilt when I started to use VED....I had been conditioning it for six weeks with the thacker to help stretch it....

I took off last night and did a Epsom salt bath instead of thacker, just cause I was concern of my unit not responding(I have been under stress also), but even though I had been under stress, I had notice this before with dmso after about a week....well sure enough I woke up with good wood this morning...so I'm going to go back on the thacker tonight....I think this is positive to me....especially the plaque getting thinner on top of the septum...

I move to the b cylinder on Sunday...my hour glass hasn't improve at all and it is my real problem, this is causing my lost of length, yes lost of length....I believe when you pull it intogether this shrinks your unit...so gain of girth equals legnth....

Anyway any one out there soaking there unit in pickle juice, speak up.....

p.s. I just wanted to add  that my unit became use to the thacker, it no longer gets a rash...I put msm cream on it when not using the thacker, it is soothing to the skin...I also use several other oils..arinca and caldenula oil...

Rico
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ComeBacKid

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #111 on: September 30, 2006, 03:14:00 AM »

Rico,

I tried the thackers formula once for about two hours, I did a wrap, I did not have any garlic breath or any side effects, no skin irritation or pain, I discontinued use because I'm not totally sure its safe, and I'm working with other drugs and the VEd, that DMSO may carry into the blood stream and have a weird reaction with the other drugs I'm on. 

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ComeBacKid

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Thackers success stories?
« Reply #112 on: October 04, 2006, 03:48:20 PM »

Has anyone on this forum used thackers formula and seen an improvment of any kind in their peyronies disease?  I have yet to hear from one person on this forum thats reported a success.  I have heard from Barry of success stories however.

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percival

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DMSO and Scleroderma
« Reply #113 on: October 07, 2006, 11:09:28 AM »

There are publications which show that DMSO is effective on the scleroderma type of scar tissue:
http://www.dmso.org/articles/scleroderma/sclero3.htm

and:

Collagen and Scleroderma

Scleroderma is a rare, disabling, and sometimes fatal disease, resulting form an abnormal buildup of collagen in the body. The body swells, the skin--particularly on hands and face--becomes dense and leathery, and calcium deposits in joints cause difficulty of movement. Fatigue and difficulty in breathing may ensue. Amputation of affected digits may be necessary. The cause of scleroderma is unknown, and, until DMSO arrived, there was no known effective treatment.

Arthur Scherbel, MD, of the department of rheumatic diseases and pathology at the Cleveland Clinic Foundation, conducted a study using DMSO with 42 scleroderma patients who had already exhausted all other possible therapies without relief. Dr. Scherbel and his coworkers concluded 26 of the 42 showed good or excellent improvement. Histotoxic changes were observed together with healing of ischemic ulcers on fingertips, relief from pain and stiffness, and an increase in strength. The investigators noted, "It should be emphasized that these have never been observed with any other mode of therapy."10 Researchers in other studies have since come to similar conclusions.11


Percival
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hopeful

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Re: Rico - DMSO
« Reply #114 on: February 23, 2007, 05:24:15 AM »

Rico.. Has anything worked..   DMSO looks like it could have some positive effects,

HOPEFUL..

Rico,

I tried the thackers formula once for about two hours, I did a wrap, I did not have any garlic breath or any side effects, no skin irritation or pain, I discontinued use because I'm not totally sure its safe, and I'm working with other drugs and the VEd, that DMSO may carry into the blood stream and have a weird reaction with the other drugs I'm on. 


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hopeful

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Re: Percival - DMSO?????
« Reply #115 on: February 26, 2007, 08:46:27 AM »

Percival

Have you tried the DMSO??-If so what did you do?-Any progress???
Hopeful


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Rzz

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #116 on: February 26, 2007, 03:48:58 PM »

Hopeful,

I'm not sure I'm reading your post correctly. It seems as if you may be saying you are mixing other drugs with DMSO and using that. If this is what you are doing, I STRONGLY urge you to STOP. One of the major factors of pharmaceuticals is the way they are introduced to the system.   

The formula one sees on this forum does not have drugs. The formula consist of castor oil, vinegar and DMSO. The Castor Oil works as a base, the vinegar works as an enzyme and the DMSO works as a carrier. None are harmful to the system.

The reason you did not get any burning sensation could be two-fold.
1) Although at first most do get a a burning sensation, not all do. Most people believe the burning sensation is caused by the DMSO, but it is not. It is caused by the vinegar working as an ennzyme. When the burning sensation occurrs, the person should stop the treatment until the redness is completly gone, then try again. If the burning continues, you may have to decrease the amount of vinegar being used. 
2) You may not have had a burning sensation because has you stated in your post, you only applied the formula for 2 hours. That is certainly why your breath or body did not give off an odor. It takes longer than 2 hours of application.

I'm not encouraging you or anyone else for that matter to try the formula. I'm just passing on what knowledge I've gained from the many, many hours I researched this topic. Good luck to you friend.
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ComeBacKid

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Re: Rzz
« Reply #117 on: February 27, 2007, 05:13:26 AM »

I think hopeful was quoting me when I was posting to Rico.  He then posed a question about dmso to rico.   

Rzz,  Have you tried thackers ?  Any luck with it if so?  Soxfan has told me hes seen results from it, perhaps he could add his experience here.  When I brought up DMSO and thackers to my urologist, he basically scoffed at me and made a joke of it.

ComeBackid
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soxfan

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Re: Rzz
« Reply #118 on: February 27, 2007, 07:23:52 PM »

I think hopeful was quoting me when I was posting to Rico.  He then posed a question about dmso to rico.   

Rzz,  Have you tried thackers ?  Any luck with it if so?  Soxfan has told me hes seen results from it, perhaps he could add his experience here.  When I brought up DMSO and thackers to my urologist, he basically scoffed at me and made a joke of it.

ComeBackid

ComeBackid/All,

I can state with 100% certainty that the Thacker formula does indeed help to soften plaque/scar tissue. You do have to use it consistently, I have done so for almost a year and I also use the ved( osbon esteem model) and the p.a.v cocktail. I have regained almost all of my lost length and I am sure that with continued treatment I will completely resolve my peyronies.

PS: Let the doctors continue to SCOFF at the ved and Thacker formula. Sadly. most md's can't get beyond the notion of drugging/operating to solve all medical conditions.

Cheers.
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Tim468

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What we and docs do
« Reply #119 on: February 27, 2007, 07:56:38 PM »

>>PS: Let the doctors continue to SCOFF at the ved and Thacker formula. Sadly. most md's can't get beyond the notion of drugging/operating to solve all medical conditions.<<

When you say this, but also admit that you are using the pentox, arginine, viagra combination AND the VED AND Thacker's formula, would that not be also considered "drugging?".

If I also had a knife, and knew how to wield it, I would add that to my arsenal of tools.

In the end, doctors are people who have tools and try to use them. It is a fact that not many of the tools work that well, or we would all be using the same tools. We do what we know. What is sad is how little doctors know about something they should know a LOT about.

Tim
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Hawk

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Re: Tim - DMSO - Doctors
« Reply #120 on: February 27, 2007, 09:17:50 PM »

Tim,

This should probably go under Urologists and other Doctors but you know, I would be happy to hear a doctor say, "I just don't know because unfortunately we have no data to support or refute the efficacy of such a treatment.  What kills me, is that because they do not know if a thing works the vast majority scoff.  Often they flatly say, "there is nothing to it", which is what a scoff says anyway.  This implies that they know all things and if they have no knowledge of it just cannot be.  I agree that we need objective evidence but what kills me is that many of the treatments they promote have little such evidence or even some evidence of harm.  Somehow that is OK.  Who can resolve such a contradiction?

My cancer surgeon is world renown.  He developed the laparoscopic prostatectomy technique in France and was recruited to Memorial Slone-Kettering in Manhatten.  Every urological surgeon in the world knows this man's name. I love this guy because during our 90 minute conversation which I finally ended,  I asked him if there was anything I could do nutritionally to increase my chance of beating my prostate cancer.  I specifically mentioned a few studies.  He shrugged his shoulders in sincere uncertainty and said, "I can't say.  What do I know, I am only a surgeon."  While one could argue that he should have some resources to refer patients to, you have to admire the common down-to-earth honesty and humility.  He stands out, not for knowing everything he should know, but for just admitting his limited knowledge.

The shame is, that this is remarkable.
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ComeBacKid

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #121 on: February 28, 2007, 12:44:22 AM »

Soxfan,

Thanks for adding your experience with thackers, i have heard of your good results, but I wanted everyone else to.

Tim,

The ved is effective, I can state for a fact that it had increased my flaccid size, mainly in length, it took daily usage for about 3 months until I saw results.  I should also state I hold each erection for about 30 seconds to a minute.  I do about 10-15 reps.  My erections are very full as well now and my penis appears thicker when erect.  I honestly believe that the VED keeps the blood vessels clear and open, and stretches that tunica.  Hopefully more people on here will post of their good results with thackers and the VED.

ComeBackid
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hopeful

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #122 on: March 02, 2007, 06:54:54 AM »

HI Rzz..

This is Hopeful,

You did read it wrong- I have not tried it yet- I am trying to find out if anyone has had any success-

Please let me know- I am not taking any drugs at all!- WHat is the particular enzyme in the vinegar?- How long should you take it?-

Thanks,

Hopeful


Hopeful,

I'm not sure I'm reading your post correctly. It seems as if you may be saying you are mixing other drugs with DMSO and using that. If this is what you are doing, I STRONGLY urge you to STOP. One of the major factors of pharmaceuticals is the way they are introduced to the system.   

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hopeful

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #123 on: March 02, 2007, 06:57:49 AM »

Hey ComeBackid - this is Hopeful- How are you doing- Please let me know what you did,, how much improvement as far as deformity, size, etc- what pump did you use.. and what other treatments- DMSO, Thackers, etc.?- what about Soxfan- what is this?

Hopeful

Soxfan,

Thanks for adding your experience with thackers, i have heard of your good results, but I wanted everyone else to.

Tim,

The ved is effective, I can state for a fact that it had increased my flaccid size, mainly in length, it took daily usage for about 3 months until I saw results.  I should also state I hold each erection for about 30 seconds to a minute.  I do about 10-15 reps.  My erections are very full as well now and my penis appears thicker when erect.  I honestly believe that the VED keeps the blood vessels clear and open, and stretches that tunica.  Hopefully more people on here will post of their good results with thackers and the VED.

ComeBackid
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soxfan

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #124 on: March 03, 2007, 05:35:44 PM »

Hopeful,

I posted my very positive experience using the Thacker Formula. You should put in some time and read the thread at the bottom of the page entitled: powerful home remedy/Thacker Formula.

The ingredients are safe and inexpensive but you have to use it for 6/7 days a weekd, 2 hours a day and for upwards of a year or more. Those who say it doesn't work probably used it sporadically for a month or two and then gave up, it is a long term treatment that requires some commitment.
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hopeful

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #125 on: March 11, 2007, 10:20:02 AM »

Nick... where are you- what happened with the DMSO?- ANy improvement.. Please let us know.

Hopeful
Yes Joshua I am going to try it again. I stated before but I think I had the mix off.
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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #126 on: March 13, 2007, 03:31:21 AM »

Hopeful,

Yes people have reported positive results using the formula. Some are contributors to this forum. However, it has worked better for some than others and for some it has not worked at all. Like most treatments, improvement is slow and takes patience. I'm not trying to discourage or encourage you to use the formula. That is a decision you will have to make yourself, but in all my research and all those who have reported to me I have not found one that had any devastaing side effects. The two main side effects reported to me were an initial burning in the first phases of treatment and unpleasant odor from the breath or when one heavily prespires. I would like to give you or anybody thinking of using the formula some advice; When ever in doubt about anything to do with using the formula i.e. mixing it, applying it etc.., "Don't assume, always ask before taking the next step."

By the way, most people think that burning sensation they get when they first use the formula is caused by the DMSO. It is not. It is caused by the acid in the vinegar. 

There are different types of enzymes in Apple Cider Vinegar. One that comes into play here is called Pectin.

The DMSO is the carrier
The Castor Oil is the base that holds it together as well as neutralizes the acid in the vinegar.
The Apple Cider Vinegar provides the enzymes.

Good luck and let me know if I can help you further,     Rzz

HI Rzz..

This is Hopeful,

You did read it wrong- I have not tried it yet- I am trying to find out if anyone has had any success-

Please let me know- I am not taking any drugs at all!- WHat is the particular enzyme in the vinegar?- How long should you take it?-

Thanks,

Hopeful


Hopeful,

I'm not sure I'm reading your post correctly. It seems as if you may be saying you are mixing other drugs with DMSO and using that. If this is what you are doing, I STRONGLY urge you to STOP. One of the major factors of pharmaceuticals is the way they are introduced to the system.   


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hopeful

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Re: DMSO and ENZYMES
« Reply #127 on: March 13, 2007, 04:29:22 AM »

Thanks for getting back to me- I am impressed with what I have read thus far. As for the enzymes- I am a firm believer in them- and feel they may hold the key- in solving the Peyronies Disease problem- As you know- AUxulliums new wonder drug is nothing but an enzyme being packaged as a drug. (Collagenease) I am wondering now with all the new material about enzymes- including the Protease enzymes as wellas the Nanokanease and Serepetease- (Neprinol formula- only oral) if these enzymes could be mixed with DMSO - as a carrier, as they are much stronger then Pectin in eating fibritic material and plaque...  I am personally doing research with a small drug company.. and will discuss the DMSO as a carrier,, will keep you posted

Hopeful

There are different types of enzymes in Apple Cider Vinegar. One that comes into play here is called Pectin.
The DMSO is the carrier


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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #128 on: March 13, 2007, 10:16:05 AM »

Pectin is not an enzyme. It is a complex made up of different polysaccharides linked together. It is primarily used to thicken jam.

Like a lot of stuff one can read here, the information is not always accurate. Pectin has a pro-health effect by serving as a source of fiber in the diet - but as a way to cure Peyronies... I do not see a way for it to help.

Tim
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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #129 on: March 13, 2007, 08:48:41 PM »

Pectin is not an enzyme. It is a complex made up of different polysaccharides linked together. It is primarily used to thicken jam.

Like a lot of stuff one can read here, the information is not always accurate. Pectin has a pro-health effect by serving as a source of fiber in the diet - but as a way to cure Peyronies... I do not see a way for it to help.

Tim
You are correct Pectin in itself is not an enzyme. I should have written Pectinase. I write Pectinase as Pectin for short in all my notes and that is how I transfered to the last post. Pectinase is an enzyme.

Pectin is indeed used to thicken jams, however pectin also serves a purpose in the fruit or plant it is in. Pectin is what holds the plant or fruit together. The way pectin is made to thicken jams is caused by Pectinase (a enzyme).

Pectinases are produced during the ripening process of many plants and fruits (including apples), where together with cellulases they "soften the cell walls." This byproduct of the softening is the thickening agent for jams. Pectinase causes the degredation of cell walls holding many plants and fruits together, including apples.

Tyrosinase, among others, is another cell degrading enzyme found in apples.

Rzz

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hopeful

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Re: Thackers Formula Revised
« Reply #130 on: March 31, 2007, 07:05:10 PM »

Hi Barry...

I Just found a supply of 99.9% pure DMSO- Here is what I am thinking- instead of using vigear, I am thinking of using the following enzymes:

Protease - dissolves fibrin -
Nattokinase - the same
Serrapeptase - derived from the silk worm- eats the fibin as welll- plaque, etc..

I would love to hear from you first before doing this- The dmso is the carrier...

Please let me know..
Hopeful

By request I am posting a newly revised version of the Thacker Formula to this topic.


The formula CAN be premixed. How many days in advance were not discussed with Thacker but all indications lead to 3-5 days. The premixed batch must be sealed when not in use and kept at room temperature. (DO NOT refrigerate premixed batches). The formula is comprised of 70%DMSO-20%Apple Cider Vinegar-10%Castor OIL.
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DMSO
« Reply #131 on: August 30, 2007, 06:19:28 PM »

 Hello,
 
 I have reviewed the information for DMSO on www.dmso-use.com 
 and I was wondering if somebody has experienced this medicine. Can we consider this as a common way of healing?
 
 Thank you.
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RE: Maxmarino - Common Way of Healing
« Reply #132 on: August 31, 2007, 10:58:55 PM »

Maxmoreno,

Many months ago I spent considerable time reviewing the dmso information, which is a PART of thackers formula.  I can't recall a single person telling me they were healed from either DMSO or thackers formula.  I know of no scientific studies done on either as well.  I would say with confidence we can't consider this a common way of healing.  However it may still be worth looking into, and appears to be safe.  One of our forum members Barry, spent considerable time himself dealing with thackers, and claims to know of people it healed.

Comeback
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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #133 on: October 03, 2007, 09:05:59 PM »

Hi! Since you were all so very helpful with my other questions (on different topics - I've been without PC access for a while, so my apologies for not thanking you all - especially Hawk, Liam and OldMan!) I've got another one for you. Obviously, about DMSO.

I bought a bunch of it after reading about Thacker's formula, A bottle of 99% pure, a mix of 70% DMSO and 30% Aloe Vera, and a cream of DMSO mixed with aloe and vitamin E.

I've been combining the pure DMSO with 12,000 IU Vitamin E and, from time to time (to combat inflammation and hardening of the plaques in my Peyronies Disease) I apply it directly. I only leave it on for 5-10 minutes, but when I do this for a few days on end I tend to feel better.

My Peyronies Disease acts up sometimes after sex or masturbation, so I tend to use it afterwards - but I'm constantly worried.

All of the DMSO websites claim it's completely safe, but sometimes it feels like they're just trying to "sell" the drug. I don't trust the FDA worth a damn, so I don't beleive that DMSO is unsafe either (it's just not profitable for the pharma companies who've bought off the FDA).

I'm worried about what's being carried through the tissue by the DMSO, and how it might affect me. I don't overdo it - I use it maybe four or five times a month - but every time I do I'm paranoid that the soap I use to wash it off is being carried through, the minerals in my shower water are being carried through, the dye of the boxers I pull on afterwards is being carried through.

I guess I'd just like to be assured that it's either not that dangerous, or hear from people who use it without problem. Since I'm convinced that Propecia gave me my Peyronies Disease in the first place, I'm so incredibly wary about using MORE chemicals to help myself. Erk. Any advice would be appreciated.
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Re: Ocelot- NO NO DMSO
« Reply #134 on: October 04, 2007, 05:38:15 AM »

If DMSO were the cure, everyone would know it.  It is not a cure.  I would not use it myself, but have heard of no serious consequences.  I do think your concerns are justified, though.  Try taking ibuprofen for the inflammation (I'm serious).

I am no fan of government agencies.  If you want something screwed up, create a bureaucracy around it.  The FDA has huge problems.  I do trust them more than companies trying to sell you something, though.  You can't buy off every employee of the FDA.  If something really works, the word will get out.

I don't mean what I am going to say in a mean spirited way.  Propecia makes a nice scapegoat.  If it were responsible for everything some of these websites say, it would have been pulled, no doubt.  I'm just saying to keep an open mind about the cause.  Don't be convinced by speculation.
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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #135 on: October 04, 2007, 02:07:46 PM »

ocelot,

I have been using dmso almost everday as part of the Thacker formula for over a year now. It works and I have never had any adverse reactions.

Cheers.
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Re: Soxfan - Hopeful News
« Reply #136 on: October 04, 2007, 03:01:06 PM »

Soxfan,

Do you think you will be completely free from plaque due to Thackers?  If so, based on improvement seen in a year, how long do you estimate it will take?  Will you run through the improvements you've seen so far?   Maybe I am wrong about this.

Liam
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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #137 on: October 04, 2007, 03:10:55 PM »

Thanks soxfan. It's good to hear that people are using this stuff safely, beyond the claims on such websites as "the doctor who invented DMSO" or websites that tell you how safe and effective it is...and then go on to try and sell you bottles of the stuff in the next paragraph.

And Liam - I don't beleive my Peyronies Disease was caused entirely by Propecia - but I beleive that there must be a relationship between wound healing in the TA and testosterone/estrogen levels in the body. Since Propecia alters your testosterone and attempts to drive it down so that the specific androgens targetting your hairloss can't bind with follicles...I don't think it's a great leap of logic to assume that in the process, it drove down (or up, if estrogen is the culprit) whatever hormones my body needed to adequately recover from what must have been that initial trauma.

I just lay the blame on the medicine for the same reason you might blame a poorly-made anticoagulant if someone took it, cut themselves accidentally, and bled to death. It's really the wound itself that's to blame, but the underlying cause of it failing to heal would be the effects of the medicine.

And yeah, I might be more forgiving on the FDA if, despite my suspicions about propecia, there weren't horrendous drugs being approved like Vioxx or the ones you see in the commercials. I've actually seen ones that list side effects as "lymphoma and some rare cancers"!! How is the FDA letting this stuff through, unless they are distracted by big lobbyist paychecks...
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Re: Soxfan - Hopeful News
« Reply #138 on: October 06, 2007, 03:00:20 PM »

Soxfan,

Do you think you will be completely free from plaque due to Thackers?  If so, based on improvement seen in a year, how long do you estimate it will take?  Will you run through the improvements you've seen so far?   Maybe I am wrong about this.

Liam

Liam,

I think that you are wrong about dmso. I started using the Thacker formula before any other treatment and after a couple of months a piece of plaque disintegrated leaving a small dent. I could "feel" it working in that during treatment I felt an itching where the scar tissue was and after treatment the peinle tissue was much more elastic.

I have since added the ved and pav cocktail to my regimin and I always pump after using Thacker formula to stretch the weakened scar tissue. It has worked very well and I have recovered most all of my length and I now have more frequent erections and much better sensation. It may take another year but I expect to be fully cured. I think that most guys try something for a couple of months and quit when they don't see instant results, you have to stick with it!

ocelot,

You are right about propecia being the culprit. It kills dht levels and that leads to damaged penile tissue even in the absence of any trauma. I posted a study here a year ago confirming that hypothesis and I will repost here or you can type "androgens" in the search function.

Cheers.

Hi All,

I am still investigating the role of androgens or lack of them in Peyronies Disease and I came across a very interesting article. It is rather long so I will only post the conclusion and a link.

 
ISI Impact Factor (2003): 1.064
 
     
  Editor-in-Chief
Shao-Zhen Qian,PhD,Pharmacology
   
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Effect of androgen deprivation on penile ultrastructure

Zhou-Jun SHEN1, Xie-Lai ZHOU1, Ying-Li LU2, Zhao-Dian CHEN1

1Department of Urology, First Affiliated Hospital, 2Department of Endocrinology, Sir Run Run Shaw Hospital, School of Medicine, Zhejiang University , Hangzhou 310003, China

Asian J Androl 2003 Mar; 5: 33-36             


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Keywords: corpus cavernosum; tunica albuginea; androgens; penis; scanning electron microscopy
Abstract
Aim: To investigate the ultrastructural changes of penile corpus cavernosum and tunica albuginea in rats treated with castration or finasteride. Methods: Eighteen male Sprague-Dawley rats of nine weeks old were randomly divided into three groups with 6 rats each. Group A served as the control, Group B was castrated and Group C, treated with finasteride. Four weeks later, rats were anesthetized and blood samples obtained for the determination of serum testosterone (T) and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels; penile tissues were taken for scanning electron microscopy. Results: The T, free T and DHT levels in Group B and the DHT level in Group C were significantly lower than those in Group A (P<0.05). The tunica albuginea was significantly thinner in Group B than that in Group A (P<0.05), but there was no significant difference between Group C and Group A (P>0.05). Elastic fibers in the tunica albuginea of Group A were very rich and arranged regularly and undulatedly, but in Group B, most of the elastic fibers were replaced by collagenous fibers. In Group C, the tunica albuginea was mainly composed of thick and irregular-arranged collagenous fibers. In Group A, there were abundant smooth muscle fibers in the trabeculae of corpus cavernosum, but they were much less in Group C and scarce or even disappeared in Group B. In Groups B and C, the diminished/disappeared smooth muscle fibers were replaced by irregularly arranged collagenous fibers. Conclusion: In rats, androgen is essential for maintaining the normal structure of penile tunica albuginea and corpus carvenosum.

1 Introduction

Androgen is vital for the development of external genitalia in male mammals. In adult males, androgen is essential for the expression of normal libido, but seems to be not indispensable to the erectile activity [1]. We indicated that the serum testosterone (T) and free testosterone (FT) levels were significantly lower, the tunica albuginea much thinner and the penile corpus cavernosum contained less smooth muscles and more collagenous fibers in the elderly rats than in the young and middle-aged rats [2, 3]. Zhang et al [4] pointed out that castration induced apoptosis of penile corpus cavernosum in mature rats, which was prevented by T supplementation. This work suggested that the changes in androgen level might affect the morphology of the penile corpus caver-nosum, but the effect of androgen deprivation on the ultrastructure of the erectile tissue was not available so far in the literature. The present study was designed to elucidate this point in rats.

2 Materials and methods

2.1 Animals and treatment

Eighteen male Sprague-Dawley rats, 9 week old with body weight of 345¡À45 g, were purchased from the Experimental Animal Center of this University. They were randomly divided into three groups with six rats each and were maintained in a 12 h light/12 h dark animal room with free access to food and tap water. Group A served as the control, Group B was castrated and Group C, gavaged with finasteride at a dose of 4.5 mg.kg-1.day-1. Four weeks later, rats were killed by intraperitoneal injection of ketamine and phenobarbital sodium and blood samples were obtained for the determination of serum total and free testosterone (T & FT) and dihydrotest-osterone (DHT) levels with radioimmunoassay; penile tissues (tunica albuginea and corpus cavernosum) were taken from similar site for scanning electron microscopy.

2.2 Scanning electron microscopy

The penile tissues were washed with physiological saline, fixed in 2.5 % glutaraldehyde (pH 7.2~7.4) and washed three times in 0.1 mol/L phosphate buffer saline (PBS). The samples were then post-fixed in 1 % osmium tetroxide for 2 h, dehydrated in graded ethanol solutions and dried by the critical point drying method. The dried samples were then mounted on suitable carriers, coated with gold and examined under a scanning electron microscope (Leica-Stereoscan 260,UK).

2.3 Statistical analysis

Data were expressed in mean¡ÀSD and processed with statistical package of SPSS 10.0. Analysis of variance was performed with the t-test. Significance of difference was set at P<0.05.

3 Results

3.1 Androgen level

The serum concentrations of T, FT and DHT are shown in Table 1. The T, FT and DHT levels in Group B and the DHT level in Group C were significantly lower than those in Group A (P<0.05). There were no significant differences in the T and FT levels between Groups A and C (P>0.05).

Table 1. Serum T, FT and DHT levels. bP<0.05, compared with controls.

Group
 n
 T (nmol/L)
 FT (pmol/L)
 DHT (pg/mL)
 
A (control)
 6
 13.95¡À10.89
 43.91¡À25.85
 106.2¡À57.3
 
B (castrated)
 6
 0.79¡À0.51b
 1.83¡À0.15b
 48.4¡À8.6b
 
C (finasteride)
 6
 11.03¡À5.68
 47.33¡À32.45
 47.1¡À16.5b
 

3.2 Ultrastructure of tunica albuginea

The thickness of tunica albuginea was listed in Table 2. It was significantly thinner in Group B than in Group A (P<0.05), but there was no significant difference between Groups C and A (P>0.05). In Group A (Figure 1), the elastic fibers in tunica albuginea were very rich and arranged regularly and undulatedly, while in Group B (Figure 2), the elastic fibers were mostly replaced by collagenous fibers. In Group C (Figure 3), the regularly-arranged elastic fibers were not seen and replaced by thick and irregularly-arranged collagenous fibers.

Table 2. Thickness of tunica albuginea (mean¡ÀSD). bP<0.05, compared with control.

Group
 n
 Thickness (mm)
 
A (control)
 6
 0.16¡À0.03
 
B (castrated)
 6
 0.04¡À0.01b
 
C (finasteride)
 6
 0.14¡À0.03
 

Figure 1. Ultrastructures of tunica albuginea, Group A. (¡Á300)

Figure 2. Ultrastructures of tunica albuginea, Group B. (¡Á300)

Figure 3. Ultrastructures of tunica albuginea, Group C. (¡Á300)

3.3 Ultrastructure of corpus cavernosum

In Group A (Figure 4a & b), the smooth muscle fibers in the trabeculae were rich and contained a few elastic and collagenous fibers. Structure of the sinusoids was perfect and clear.

Figure 4a & b. Ultrastructures of corpus cavernosum, Group A. (a¡Á300, b¡Á900)

In Group B (Figure 5a & b), the corpus cavernosum was mainly composed of a large amount of collagenous fibers, which were thick and irregularly arranged. Smooth muscle fibers in the trabeculae were diminished or completely disappeared. The sinusoids were markedly depressed and narrowed.

Figure 5a & b. Ultrastructures of corpus cavernosum, Group B. (a¡Á300, b¡Á900)

In Group C (Figure 6a & b), the corpus cavernosum also contained a considerable amount of thick and irregularly-arranged collagenous fibers, but the degree of fibrosis was not so marked as in Group B and the types of fibrosis were different between these two groups. The sinusoids of Group C were partially depressed, but the structure of the sinusoids was still retained.

Figure 6a & b. Ultrastructures of corpus cavernosum, Group C. (a¡Á300, b¡Á900)

4 Discussion

The present study showed that in the castration animals, there were a high degree of fibrosis in the corpus cavernosum with irregularly arranged collagenous fibers and a marked decrease in smooth muscle fibers, while in the DHT-inhibited group, the corpus cavernosum contained quite an amount of thick and irregular-arranged collagenous fibers, but the degree of fibrosis was lower than that in the castration group. Results suggest that androgen is essential for the maintenance of normal ultrastructure of corpus cavernosum. Zhang et al [4] demonstrated that in mature rats, castration induced apoptosis in corpus cavernosum with the replacement of the apoptotic tissues by fibrous tissue. This may be one of the pathways through which androgen deprivation acts on corpus cavernosum. In the present study, the degree and type of corpus cavernosum fibrosis in the two groups were different, suggesting that T and DHT act on the corporal cavernosal tissues independently and differently. Finasteride can only inhibit the action of DHT, but not T on the corporal cavernosal tissue, therefore, the degree of fibrosis was less in the DHT-inhibited group than in the castration group.

The tunica albuginea of penis plays a major role in the erection mechanism. It compresses the subalbugineal venules, thus decreasing the venous outflow during erection and provides an inextensible fibrous frame for the erectile tissue of the penis [5]. In the normal control group of this study, the elastic fibers in the tunica albuginea were very rich and arranged regularly and undulatedly. In the castration group, the thickness of tunica albuginea decreased significantly and the elastic fibers were mostly replaced by collagenous fibers and in the DHT-inhibited group, the elastic fibers were replaced by disorganized and thick collagenous fibers. These results indicate that androgen is also essential for the maintenance of the normal structures of tunica albuginea.

It can be concluded that androgen is indispensable to the maintenance of normal ultrastructures of the erectile tissues. However, the interrelationship between androgen and the structure and function of the erectile tissue is not quite clear and sometimes even controversial, and further investigation is needed
 
http://www.asiaandro.com/1008-682X/5/33.htm


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ComeBacKid

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Re: Soxfan
« Reply #139 on: October 06, 2007, 08:09:08 PM »

How long have you been pumping for?  Did that seem to help or result in no change for you?

Comeback
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Re:Soxfan
« Reply #140 on: October 06, 2007, 10:31:22 PM »

Man,

That was some deep stuff. Can I safely assume that the study suggests my enlarged prostate was due to a lack of testoterone/increase in estrogen and may be the reason I wound up with Peyronies, which for me consists of a cord that runs the length of the right side of my penis?

That is a question for anyone, not just Soxfan.
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Hawk

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Re: Soxfan - Sorry
« Reply #141 on: October 07, 2007, 12:36:27 AM »

I am happy you noticed a change after a couple of months into your DMSO (Thackers) treatment.  But, why no more improvement after over a year?  Another question nagging me is why it would selectively attack plaque and leave healthy tissue alone (skin or TA)?

I'm not denying your improvement.  But, based on what you've described, I can't say there is clear evidence DMSO did anything.  If it did, why has it stopped?

If there is some other evidence, let me know.  I want something out there to work!
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wiseguy

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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #142 on: October 21, 2007, 01:26:28 PM »

Hey soxfan...
Exactly what kind of apple cider vinegar do you use? Can it be bought online?

thanks in advance;)
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Re: Vinegar
« Reply #143 on: October 21, 2007, 04:54:13 PM »

Quote
Exactly what kind of apple cider vinegar do you use? Can it be bought online?

I use White House brand.  It is what is used on a salad and buy it from my local grocery (no shipping charge).  My wife just made West Indies Salad using lump white crab meat, salt, pepper, water, oil, and apple cider vinegar.  It was great!  You can also mix it with water and local honey to help with allergies and improve digestion.  I use the white vinegar in a solution with water to clean and deoderize the cat litter box.  You can also use it on your floors to freshen up the smell.
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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #144 on: October 21, 2007, 10:49:06 PM »

Hey soxfan...
Exactly what kind of apple cider vinegar do you use? Can it be bought online?

thanks in advance;)

wg,

I use Bragg brand organic apple cider vinegar, make sure you use organic that contains the "mother". The "mother" is the floating white stuff that purportedly has beneficial enzymes in it.

Hawk,

I don't know why it works but I just know that in lieu of any coincidences it helped my condition improved greatly. My length has returned, blood flow and regular erections too, I am just now finding that regaining my lost girth is coming very slowly.

Heck, the Thacker formula is cheap and harmless so why not give it a shot. Just make sure you use it every night, for two hours for at least a year to give it a fair shot to work.

cheers.
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Re: DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #145 on: October 22, 2007, 09:51:14 AM »

I may try that - though I expect a fall-off in the frequency of evening fellatio.

Tim
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Re: Tim
« Reply #146 on: October 22, 2007, 12:12:36 PM »

Tim,

Now that you bring it up,what is the molecular weight of lipstick?  It could possibly be carried into the tissue.   ;)
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After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

bodoo2u

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DMSO and DMSO based Solutions
« Reply #147 on: October 22, 2007, 09:45:01 PM »

OK, this is messing with my head, I mean it's just too much for me to understand. I thought the Thackers Formula was some type of multi-component formula and here it is just three ingredients. I know where to get castor oil and the Bragg's ACV because i frequent healthfood stores. But where do I get the type of DMSO that is most recommended for curing Peyronies Disease. Is there a specific mixture? Please Help!! And yes, I will read the entire formula before i apply it, but I just want to know what to buy so I can get it in the house and have it ready. 
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Liam

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  • ...grab some scalpels and settle this like doctors
Re: I don't get it!
« Reply #148 on: October 23, 2007, 06:13:52 AM »

What is the rationale for this working?  In other words, what is in it that could possibly work?

Just a thought.....If you used Balsamic vinegar, would you get a "woodie"?
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Hawk

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Re: Bodoo2u
« Reply #149 on: October 23, 2007, 03:38:14 PM »

I don't think the very strongest promoters of 'Thacker" would ever refer to it as a "cure"!
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Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 68 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums
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