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[Joshua]

DMSO and DMSO based solutions are discussed here.

[Old Forum]

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:03 pm     
 
Joshua


 I am betting many will disagree with me here. However, I will admit I think DMSO has a place in Peyronies Disease treatment. There is very good information on the net explaining its positive effects on fibrosis, reducing the swelling in tissue and of course its skin penetrating abilities.
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:40 pm     
 


 Joshua wrote:
I am betting many will disagree with me here. However, I will admit I think DMSO has a place in Peyronies Disease treatment. 


I would agree with that Joshua. I have used it on animals (specifically birds of prey). To tansport other substances to infected areas with little blood supply. Its penetrating power is remarkable. As you point out, in addition to its transport power it is an antii-inflamitory.

PDFTD knows a considerable amount about DMSO. M UK and some others may as well.
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:36 am     
 
Guest

 It's dcaptain (sorry, I'll email you Hawkman about this, but just wanted to post again first). For those of us not in the know, what's DSMO?

Thanks.
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:21 am     
 
Joshua

 dcaptain:
I hope pdftd chimes in or rzz. I suggest you google it. You can even google it with peyronie's. The very basic answer is it is an anti-inflamatory that can be applied to the skin. It is very popular for arthritis in Russia. There are some great threads about dmso on the bio forum under home remedy treatment. I think it helps and I am looking at it for possible use.

P.S dcaptain thanks for supporting the forum!!!!!!!
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:53 am     
 
Joshua

 This is a touchy subject I know. However, the fact remains that the “home remedy” thread remains the largest thread on Biospecifics. I found that thread full of information and a fascinating read. I was impressed with the work/research that many members put into the formula. Whether it worked or not it was incredible how everyone involved shared research and testimonials on their own progress or lack of. I also must comment that you will find more reported success stories on that thread than any other thread in all the years that Biospecifics has been up. That is a fact. I can’t say the successes are real, hoaxes, or in the mind. However, I can count dozens of men reporting what they felt was success. Unfortunately, you can’t point me into the direction of any other thread with reports like that. Rzz and Pdftd shared fascinating and powerful theories that showed how that mysterious formula might have possibly worked for some. I strongly recommend any Peyronies Disease suffer to read those threads ( home remedy 1 and 2) on Biospecifics. I am not saying it works or not, However, I promise you will find the threads interesting and informative!
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 8:40 pm     
 
j

 I think the thread is long because so many guys got interested and tried it, and that in turn was because the initial post by "Thacker" seemed credible. Unfortunately no more was heard from "Thacker", which tended to discredit the story.

There does not seem to be any scientifc basis for the use of DMSO and ACV against Peyronie's. Several guys claimed early success, but as time went on I heard fewer and fewer positive reports. Eventually interest seemed to die out. My own conclusion is that it was all just a hoax.
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:31 am     
 
Joshua


 I don’t think it was or is a cure but I would not be so quick to dismiss this formula all together. I have read many papers on DMSO. It is being used in hospitals to reduce brain swelling for head injuries here in America. It is the number one treatment for arthritis in Russia. There is an interesting study where cells from a Peyronies Disease plaque were placed in dmso and they died off while the non Peyronies Disease infected attached tissue remained healthy. I know it was listed in the patent for one of the verapamil applications. I have read where it can reduce the swelling from a twisted ankle in minutes. There is plenty of evidence to prove it drive chemicals deeper into the tissue than any other substance available. There is a chance it was driving this apple cider into the plaques. I THINK hardened plaques/calcified MAY have been helped. I do not think it worked for non calcified plaques. I think that is what caused it to die down. These are just my wild theories. I know pdftd has much more information and knowledge about this subject than I. I understand he talked personally with the family of the Dr that suggested this treatment. I understand he went in depth with this research and found the story credible. A very fascinating subject we should not just blow off as a hoax. There is too much to show it COULD be more than just that. Discussion can’t hurt!
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:31 am     
 
PDFTD


 Hi All,
First allow me to apologize for not addressing the DMSO issue for so long. I am Deeply involved in a personal project and my time goes to it. However it seems as though there is much for me to say based on the posts on this forum. So I will do my best to cover everything I can and answer questions in the interim. With my schedule so busy I will have to attend to this subject in more then one post.

I have taken three posts from the forum that I will first use as a starting point to my clarification of DMSO, the Thacker Formula and how they are relative.

Kindly read the post by J, on Jul 03, 2005. In response to j’s post I can say that the Thacker Formula was and is not a hoax by any means. Thacker (His last name), was immediately verbally attacked following his first post. This verbal abuse took place at every attempt that he made to post, so he stopped. This should be easily understandable as nobody wants to be the victim of verbal abuse, more especially since he came to the forum with honorable intentions. J, you say there is no scientific evidence that the Thacker Formula had efficacy. On the contrary, the formula was created and tested by Thacker’s Grandfather, the late Doctor Thacker. Doctor Thacker had Peyronies Disease, all of his sons had it, and their sons had it as well. (A good indicator corresponding to the common Medical communities justification that Peyronies Disease is a Genetic disease). In fact Doctor Thacker treated Hundreds of his own patients who had Peyronies Disease with his formula and as Thacker told me, the rate of efficacy was in the 90% range. Is that outrageous? I don’t think so IMHO. I justify my opinion simply because most Doctors will not consider any treatment that “Has no basis in science”. To that I say, “horse pucky”.

To reply to your statement that the Thacker Formula died out let me say this. I counseled, off forum, dozens of men in the use of this formula and it is my conclusion based on what was reported by members of the BTC forum and the men I spoke with one on one that The Thacker formula is Efficacious. Just to retort a possible thought that you may be harboring, these men I worked with off forum, did so because they did not want to be subjected to the ridicule and foolish remarks that were stated on the forum to those who reported their use on forum and got attacked and called liars.

I will close out this part of my discussion saying this. A week ago a man who shall remain nameless contacted me. He stated that he had read my posts that dated back to 2004 and wanted to know if I would help him get started on the Thacker formula ASAP. He started the formula two days ago and I am working with him very closely one on one. The Thacker Formula is not dead, forgotten nor a Hoax.

I’ve much more to say on the subject but I need to go for now and will return with additional information for you and everyone to review.

Regards,
Barry
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:35 am     
 
Joshua


 pdftd:
Thanks for the posts and information. I was hoping you would interject but I did not want to push you.
Barry with your permission, I would like to repost the final formula you and Thacker finalized.

Also, what is your opinion of my hypothesis that the formula works better on a hardened calcified plaque?
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:02 pm     
 
j
Voting Member


 PDFTD, maybe you would agree that it's hard to accept claims of success for a therapy developed by a Dr. who's identity can't be revealed, whose records are not available, and who apparently proposed no mechanism of action to explain why this formula should work. It's an appealing story, but not nearly enough to get me to try this therapy - which is tedious, bad-smelling and - in my opinion - possibly dangerous, given the ability of DMSO to carry almost any sort of contamination or foreign substance deep into tissues and the bloodstream.

I only recall a couple of actual posts by "Thacker" - correct me if I'm wrong. Most of the ridicule was directed at him after he stopped posting. It just seemed extremely odd for someone to drop a bombshell post like that, then refuse to substantiate, elaborate or even discuss it further on the forum. Not to mention annoying to have a cure dangled in front of us, mirage-like.

If you are sincere about this and believe guys have actually benefitted from it, I appreciate that - but from the point of view of an objective outsider there's just nothing to go on.

I'd welcome more information from you on this. But as it stands now it's the Loch Ness Monster of Peyronies Disease therapies.
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:11 am     
 
Joshua

 j wrote:
PDFTD, maybe you would agree that it's hard to accept claims of success for a therapy developed by a Dr. who's identity can't be revealed, whose records are not available, and who apparently proposed no mechanism of action to explain why this formula should work. It's an appealing story, but not nearly enough to get me to try this therapy - which is tedious, bad-smelling and - in my opinion - possibly dangerous, given the ability of DMSO to carry almost any sort of contamination or foreign substance deep into tissues and the bloodstream.

I only recall a couple of actual posts by "Thacker" - correct me if I'm wrong. Most of the ridicule was directed at him after he stopped posting. It just seemed extremely odd for someone to drop a bombshell post like that, then refuse to substantiate, elaborate or even discuss it further on the forum. Not to mention annoying to have a cure dangled in front of us, mirage-like.

If you are sincere about this and believe guys have actually benefitted from it, I appreciate that - but from the point of view of an objective outsider there's just nothing to go on.

I'd welcome more information from you on this. But as it stands now it's the Loch Ness Monster of Peyronies Disease therapies.


J,
I very respectfully disagree with some of your post. Thacker was absolutely attacked instantly and in ridiculous fashion the second he posted the formula and attempted to answer questions. Seriously, review the beginning of the first thread. You know how crazy it can get on Bios forum. Again, I would agree with you but if you do some research you can at least see some correlation to the dmso fighting Peyronies Disease. I am saying its possible. If you review the research material on dmso alone you could see that it’s possible that this could help. The fact remains that the threads which is a thousand post long! Has more reports of success than any other thread on Peyronies Disease on any other forum on the net. That is not to say it is real or works but it shows that there might be something to it. I can understand men going underground to use the product now. They were starting to get ridiculed from others and stopped reporting. I wished that did not happen. We should support men that wish to pursue alternative treatments, even if we don't agree with them. They need and deserve our support and respect!
Take a read on the net about dmso with an open mind. You might be suprised at what you find-I was
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:49 pm     
 
Hawkman

 Here is a link that supplies significant information on DMSO by one writer referencing many studies. I think that anyone that does not mind reading, will find it very interesting. I found the collagen and autoimmune issues especially interesting especially since Peyronie's Disease is not mentioned in the article. To any newcomers, an advantage of this forum is that all you have to do is click on the link below to see the article.

http://www.dmso.org/articles/information/muir.htm

As stated before on this forum or elsewhere, I have used DMSO in veterinary applications to transport antibiotics to areas with too little blood supply for reliable transport of injectable antibiotics which I also administered. This has namely been the feet of birds of prey that are very susceptible to fatal infections that seldom respond to any injectable, oral, or topical antibiotics. DMSO solution is a confirmed best treatment by veterinary experts at the University of Michigan and the worlds leading veterinary researchers on birds of prey. I marveled at how quickly it penetrated my own skin and the quick taste/odor that resulted. This gave me strong concerns about contaminant transport and made me very careful to wash my hands prior to use and to avoid contact with DMSO based solutions. I do admit to experimenting a bit with plain DMSO long before I had Peyronies Disease.

I am intrigued by DMSO but keep a healthy skepticism of every current conventional and non-conventional Peyronies Disease treatment. I hope the article is interesting to forum members that have not already researched this topic to the point of exhaustion.
 
 

[Old Forum]

PDFTD
Voting Member
 
 
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 12
Location: Texas


 I am re-posting so the post will come up with MY name and not Guest. This is at the request of a fellow member. Somehow I disconnected myself accidentially and the poster became Guest.

j wrote:Quote:

PDFTD, maybe you would agree that it's hard to accept claims of success for a therapy developed by a Dr. who's identity can't be revealed, whose records are not available, and who apparently proposed no mechanism of action to explain why this formula should work. It's an appealing story, but not nearly enough to get me to try this therapy - which is tedious, bad-smelling and - in my opinion - possibly dangerous, given the ability of DMSO to carry almost any sort of contamination or foreign substance deep into tissues and the bloodstream.

I only recall a couple of actual posts by "Thacker" - correct me if I'm wrong. Most of the ridicule was directed at him after he stopped posting. It just seemed extremely odd for someone to drop a bombshell post like that, then refuse to substantiate, elaborate or even discuss it further on the forum. Not to mention annoying to have a cure dangled in front of us, mirage-like.

If you are sincere about this and believe guys have actually benefitted from it, I appreciate that - but from the point of view of an objective outsider there's just nothing to go on.

I'd welcome more information from you on this. But as it stands now it's the Loch Ness Monster of Peyronies Disease therapies. 


J,
I would agree if: I had not had so may conversations with Thacker personally.I will agree that it is an appealing story. I will elaborate on that statement,The use of the words "appealing story" indicates that what I have said so far is just that, a STORY. I would hope that if I make a statement of fact that it is believed and not called a story. otherwise the implication is that I am not being truthful in my words. I STRONGLY suggest that you re-read my post and concentrate on the section that says that I worked off forum with dozens of men using the Thacker and why. If at that point you still call my post a story then you are basically calling me a liar. I most sincerely hope that you don't come to that conclusion.

Furthermore, I have knowledge of DMSO that you cannot read in a book, so information on DMSO is limited to what you can read on your computer screen. You claim to be an "objective outsider", my contention is that your manner of thought and/or use of words do not dis-credit or challenge me as a truthful and honorable man. I promised in the last post to continue further posts about DMSO and the Thacker Formula which in fact I will do as time allows it. In the meantime please refrain from insuiating(sp) that I am other then truthful and honest.

Barry/PDFTD
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:27 pm     
 
Hawkman


 Barry,

Are you and RZZ in agreement on what constitutes the Thacker Formula, and would you post the formula here? I am interested in whether pure/uncut DMSO is cut to 70% by adding 20% organic apple cider vinegar and 10% castor oil. Or, do you start with DMSO that has already been cut to 70% with sterile water? It seems the first would be correct.

In addition, have you used this? Do you have a summary of your opinion on its merits and limitations? Is this conclusion from personal results or the reported results of others, or a combination?

I understand you are not a doctor and it is only your opinion I am soliciting. I am not asking for conclusive double blind studies. Hell, we can't get that for the treatments being offered by the "top Peyronies Disease Docs”that have universities and medical companies behind them.

I am also very interested in hearing RZZ's final assessment and opinion since I have read all of "home remedies 1".

I am interested in a clear easy to understand post of the formula, how many men you KNOW have properly used it, and their reported results. As we all know, we have to be suspicious of posts on some other forums because we are never sure if we are reading an imposter or the real deal.

It would be great to have that information in one clear post for newcomers to evaluate on a forum where we can trust the identity of the source.
 
 

[Old Forum]

 PDFTD

 Hawkman,
Yes rzz and I are in total agreement on the mixture. The DMSO should be Pharmaceutical Grade, which can be purchased on the net. The DMSO should be uncut at 100% as you indicated. I am going to post an additional post following this post with the entire procedure for the Thacker formula.

No I have not used it as a primary treatment because I had already started another treatment that was working very well and felt no need to use two therapies.

You ask for a summary! That will be easy to answer. The Thacker formula is an Alternative Peyronies Disease treatment that has been tested by dozens of men. all of whom reported their result either on the BTC forum or to me directly. As stated in an earlier post this was over a period of approx. two years.
Of those men with whom I worked with off forum, one on one, I can comfortably say that the efficacy was around 90% or in other words, 9 out of 10. In addition with that having been said, each individual saw at least a 50% improvement overall. Of those on the forum it is a bit difficult to put them into the same category because many men modified the formula on their own or just used the DMSO. Credible results cannot be reasonably attained when the formula is not used properly and the men reporting their result are nameless and may be reporting untrue results. My test group was about 80 plus men.

Correct as you are, I am not a Doctor. But, the above information is not based on conjecture or opinion it is factual and accurate.

I cannot speak for rzz on this matter with the exception that we agreed on the mixture of 70%--20%--10%. I do know however that he used the formula and has efficacious results. To what degree would be impossible to say because he never told me. I would suggest that you contact him personally for that information. I hope I satisfied your questions and curiosities. I’ll post the formula next on another post as promised.

Best,
Barry/PDFTD
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:43 am      
 
PDFTD


 Thacker Formula-Revised…07/11/05

An Informational,

My communications with Thacker confirmed much of what was believed from the little information initially given. The discussions covered the following, Thackers use and results of his Grandfathers Formula…..Doctor Thacker, Thacker stated that Peyronies Disease starting with Doctor Thacker, who suffered from Peyronies Disease, as well as his uncles, father and himself. It seems to indicate in theory that Thackers family from his Grandfather to himself had a Genetic Pre-Disposition to this disease. Thacker indicated to me that DMSO and its quality was of the utmost importance, as expressed to him by Doctor Thacker and clarified many times. Unfortunatly, the source of Doctor Thackers DMSO is unknown. This does not negate the other two ingredients in any way and their importance to the formula. Thacker confirmed the 70%-20%-10% mixture as what was used by him. Thacker did stress that a high quality Apple Cider Vinegar be used, I told him that many men were using organic ACV and he did not agree nor disagree, but additional research indicated and confirmed that Organic ACV should be used. Castor Oil is generic in nature, so any brand will do. Thacker said that his Grandfather used the formula on men with Dupuytrens Contracture, aka (DC), he did not mention results, but it was used never the less.

Taking nothing from Thacker, it must be understood that he was for the most part a “user” of this formula, and did not in fact know much as to what the components did or why. His Grandfather mixed it for him; Doctor Thacker pre-mixed the formula, and gave it to him as needed with instructions on how to apply it.



I suggest strict self-obedience with the treatment and trust that it will work. It takes some time.
You must keep the wrap soaked during application.
The garlic odor from the application could be bathed off and a scented cream such as Aloe Vera applied to the penis after application, but the internal odor that omits through the skin pores and breath, is something you have to live with, and I can only suggest strong breath mints and wear cologne to envelop the smell. That will usually cover it. My own personal research has concluded that gently massaging the plaque after application is acceptable as long as it does not incur pain. Do this for about five-ten minutes.


THE FOLLOWING IS A DIRECT QUOTE FROM THACKER TO ME

QUOTE
“I usually followed my evening application with a hot bath and massaged the plaque forcefully but not painfully. It took about three to four months for me to start seeing results and then positive results started coming quickly. The hard nodules will suddenly start getting soft. They may break apart. Once that starts happening things improve fast. You should realize increased erection quality right off the bat. The DMSO
will smooth the muscle in the penis.”
“Once the hard nodules start getting soft or breaking up into bits. It took about six more months of application and message to finish it off. My penis then healed almost back to pre-Peyronies Disease. I would say that I am 90% where I was. I no longer have any hard pieces of plaque in my penis. I have one small indentation left where a huge piece of plaque was that did not heal all the way back. The curve will reduce slowly as plaque resolves. I started with a 50 degree curve when it was at its worse, and now, no noticeable curve”
END QUOTE


Mixing Procedure,

You MUST, wash your hands with any type of hand or body soap prior to the mixing process.
The formula CAN be premixed. How many days in advance were not discussed with Thacker but all indications lead to 3-5 days. The premixed batch must be sealed when not in use and kept at room temperature. (DO NOT refrigerate premixed batches). The formula is comprised of 70%DMSO-20%Apple Cider Vinegar-10%Castor OIL. In order to mix the formula use three separate 10cc syringes and draw the liquid up to the 1, 2, or 7 mark depending on the liquid. Then squirt each one into a small glass bowl and mix well with an eyedropper.


Application Method.

Warm the formula prior to use; this should be common to its application. Soak the mixture on a flannel sheet of cloth (NO coloring, MUST be white) or an appropriately sized strip of sterilized gauze. Wrap the cloth completely around the penis, then to hold it in place use white medical tape or uncolored string. Do this application once daily (the evening hours would be preferable to most), and as consistently as possible through the week. The duration in time should not be less then 1/2 hour, although 1-2 hours is favored. DO NOT refrigerate pre- mixed batches, if you do, throw that batch away. Also, if you get redness or blistering, discontinue use and apply Diaper Rash Medicine to ease the problem and correct it. Aloe Vera is appropriate as well. Once corrected continue treatment.


CAUTION!
DMSO is a very safe solvent to use in this formula but……………….
While the bottle is open and/or the batch is being pre-mixed be very cautious and not get it into you eyes. If you do go the nearest E.R, they will know how to treat you with an eyewash.
Also, pure DMSO is not to be taken internally. The same conditions apply as to the above remedy.

DMSO is a very powerful delivery agent, meaning that it will put into your body anything on your hands, so it MUST be used under Sterile Conditions.


DMSO on line Purchase Sites,

www.webvitamin.com Natures gift
www.lifesvigor.com Natures Gift
www.herbalremedies com Clinic Service Co.
www.kornax.com Rich’s



The creators of this formula are not Doctors and do not profess to be, we are however, researchers and bring this treatment to you with no promise of efficacy but, but most assuredly a sparkle of hope.
This formula is an ALTERNATIVE, non-Medicinal treatment. Years of research, in the aggregate, have been invested by myself and another Peyronies Disease survivor who’s research efforts played a solid role in putting this formula together for all Peyronies Disease sufferers to try. Your Doctors may attempt to convince you that the use of this treatment is flippant; the ultimate decision to use this treatment is up to you. The general statement Doctors use is, “it has no basis in science”, to that I say, tell that to the many men who have had efficacious results. Also, there are NO RX contraindications to this formula and it’s not invasive. Used as directed, it is as dangerous as taking an aspirin.


Good Luck,
Barry, aka, PDFTD, Peyronies Disease Survivor for 8 years
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:08 am     
 
Caspian


 Hawkman wrote:
I marveled at how quickly it penetrated my own skin and the quick taste/odor that resulted. This gave me strong concerns about contaminant transport and made me very careful to wash my hands prior to use and to avoid contact with DMSO based solutions..


Life Extension scientists Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw talked about DMSO decades ago and were cautioning people to be very careful not to have any contaminants present because they would pass right on through. They also said that DMSO worked largely as a powerful antioxidant and that it broke down these primary free radicals into secondary free radicals that were less harmful. They recommended using a broad spectrum antioxidant along with DMSO to take care of the secondary radicals.
 

_________________
You are what you iz
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:48 pm     
 
Joshua


 Pdftd:
THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE POST ON THACKERS! My own situation has improved to the point I am currently not requiring any treatment beyond supplement maintenance for hopeful prevention of the symptoms returning. However, if a descent size plaque nodule would return I would try this formula. I have read enough about it to conclude it is safe, cheap and has the potential to work. I take vitamin e for the same reasons so I see no reason not to follow that thought process with this treatment.

A couple of questions:

1. My own individual research on this treatment makes me wonder if it would not be more beneficial to calcified late stage Peyronies Disease plaques. Your thoughts…
2. Do you still communicate with Thacker’s grandson and are there discussions on making his widely discussed journal available? That would be fascinating reading and allow us to get into his reasoning of why this mixture may work.

Thanks for your brilliant post. This subject is fascinating and shows the true spirit and strength of these forums/discussions!
Joshua
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:21 am     
 
PDFTD

 First let me say your very welcome. Something that you might find interesting, I found and started expiermenting with DMSO over two years prior to Thacker writing his first post. So I had a good working knowledge of DMSO already. I can't emphasize enough that DMSO is safe as long as used with caution and common sence.

A tid bit of info: DMSO will carry, transdermally, (through the skin) anything that has a molecular weight of less then 1000. So the general thougth that DMSO will cause ANYTHING to penetrate the skin only applies under the above conditions.

Joshua, to answer your question about late stage Peyronies Disease I can say from personal knowledge that if this formula is going to have efficacy, it doesn't matter what stage your in or how long you have had it.

Thackers Grandson and I had many conversations, but he is a private man and when our conversations of Dr. Thacker's formula were done he stopped responding to my e-mails. I have no explaination for that, it's just the way it happened. As far as the Journals go, they are no longer available to me.

Just a closing statement before I say bye: Millions of people drink Coca Cola every day without a second thought.............BUT, that stuff will eat rust off metal and if you get it in your eyes it will burn.

Just something to think about!!!!!!!

Best,
Barry/PDFTD
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:01 am     
 
Joshua

 Any guess: would l-arginine and dmso mixed produce any results? I have read that l-arginine is mixed into some foot rub creams for diabetics to encourage blood flow into the feet. I wonder would l-arginine mixed with dmso penetrate the skin and cause blood flow in the penis. Also, remember the exciting studies showing that arginine might help Peyronies Disease.
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:20 am     
 
PDFTD

 Joshua,
To answer your question,yes DMSO will carry it with no effort. L-Arginine has a molecular weight of 174 and is positive charged. But it has never been tested as a compound so I would not attempt doing it. There are to many factors that I have to consider before I could give it any approval as safe and/or effective.It would take months to test your theory Joshua.For more info go to this site and look around.

I have created and/or revised two treatments, Thacker formula and the S/I formula. Concurrently I put about 2 1/2 years research and study into these treatments before I would give them any on forum endorcement.I alone was the guinea pig.

biomedia.bio.purdue.edu/IML/Amino/html/arg.html

Best,
Barry
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:55 pm     
 
Joshua


 Rzz:
Yes, you are absolutely correct; Pdftd has answered my questions quite thoroughly. His knowledge on DMSO is incredible. I wanted you to also chime in on my theory that if this formula works it seems like it would help the late stage calcified plagues more than soft or new plaque growth. The testimonials of it working (BTC Home Remedy threads) always seemed to indicate it breaks up or splits hard plaques. The research on the ingredients indicates to me it would only have impact on a calcified plaque. Your thoughts?

My own condition has thankfully improved dramatically. However, I am left with one very small piece of stubborn plaque. It is soft not calcified. I do not wish to try the formula yet without more research.
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:49 pm      
 
Hawkman


 Rzz,

I am interested in your assessment of the Thacker formula on a personal level. Did it help? How sure are you that it was the formula that helped and not the natural reversal of the disease? Don't hesitate to make your response as long as you like. I am also interested in it's effects on erection whether good or bad. Conventional medicine seems to have nothing to offer me so I am quite interested.

Thanks in advance.
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:54 am     
 
JUAN

 Hi there,
I am very interested in this dmso. My boyfriend and i have just about given up hope however all the talk seems tobe around this disease just developing. Would this treatment help for Peyronies Disease caused through trauma?
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 8:59 pm     
 
PDFTD

 Juan,
The answer would be yes. I could get into all the reasons why but, then I would have to compose a post three pages long.

Understand though that because this treatment is similar to any other treatment,RX or Alternative, in that some work and some don't, you should keep that in mind if you choose to use it. Good Luck and if you need my help any more I would be more then glad to respond.

Regards,
Barry/PDFTD

Peyronies Disease Victim for over 8 years
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:56 am     
 
Rzz

 Hawkman,

You ask how the formula worked for me and how I was sure it was the formula and not just natural reversal. I'll adress the second part first.

1) I can not be 100% it was not natural reversal, but I tend to doubt it because my Peyronies Disease was well over 4 years old when I started it and Peyronies Disease reversal at such a late stage is very, very rare.
2) I began to see some improvement within weeks of starting the formula. I would ocassionally have to take breaks from the formula because my skin would become sensitive to it. When I would do so, I would see the improvement stop. When I would start back up the slight improvement would begin again.

So there is no way I can say it was not natural reversal, but as you can see, it would be quite a coincidence if it were. However, maybe the formula allows the natural procees to work, but this is something for futher research and I've got my hands full on other research of the formula right now. Strange thing about research; it seems like the more answers one finds, the more questions he creates.

As to what degree it helped me. First let me say that I've stated many times before my problem was never really curvature. Yes I had some curvature at the begining, but it was not bad. Mt problem was erection quality. At first it was OK, but as time went by, I became about 75%-80% impotent. This in turn caused MAJOR depression. I would say the formula after about 6 months of use improved my erection quality by about 25%-30%. I began to get night time erections and morning erections which I had stopped getting altogether. So I was and still am about 50% impotent. Now 50% is still poor and sex is difficult, but possible. So to be at the stage I was at and have that kind of improvement was just fine by me. However, for some reason the formula just seemd to stop working. I have some theories about this and some ideas that I'm going to try. But right now I'm getting a little tired and I'll finish this up tomorrow. There is some good news and some bad news. Unilt tomorrow. Rzz
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:34 am     
 
Rzz

 There are a few crucial things I'd like to point out about using the Thacker Formula. I've mentioned them before and PDFTD has as well. Although they have been mentioned before I think it's very important they be touched on again.
1) For unknown reasons, it does not work for everybody. A few have seen amazing results and some have seen no results. Most fall anywhere in between. It is very, very doubtful using the formula will rid one completely of his Peyronies Disease. However, it can and has brought relief to a lot who have used it. Remember, even the conventional medical treatments do not work for everybody. The formula is no different.
2) One must follow the instructions to the letter for the best chances of receiving some help from the formula.
3) There may be some mild irratation in the first few days, but if it last longer than that then STOP. You may have to adjust the formula to better suit your skin. If this happens let me or PDFTD know and we can help you adjust the mixture. The important thing to remember is this is not the place to try to be a tough guy and just keep using the formula and say the hell with the burning, I can take it. BAD IDEA!! Always let the irratation go away before starting the application again.
4) If you are in doubt about anything when attempting to use the formula, then STOP and get the answer before going ahead. If you don't you may be sabotoging the treatment or risking a bad skin rash.
5) Again for reasons I'm not sure of, it turns out it is best to take breaks from the formula. What I mean is for some reason the formula will stop working and I found if you give it a rest for 2-4 weeks and restart the treatment; it will start working again. The longer one uses the treatment the longer the breaks should be. My suggestion and what I've found best is for every month of treatment, there should be a 10 day break. For example:
Start by going 1 month of treatment then a 10 day break
Then; go for 2 months of treament and a 20 day break
Then; go for 3 months of treatment
If after this time period you have seen no improvement, you are probably not going to see any using the formula no matter how long you use it.

If you have any questions regarding the formula, please don't hesitate to ask and I'll be happy to answer them if I can. There is so much involved in the Thacker Formula it would take hours and hours to post it all; so I think it would be much easier if I just addressed any question as they come.
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:39 pm     
 
Guest
 
 

I wanted you to also chime in on my theory that if this formula works it seems like it would help only the late stage calcified plagues more than soft or new plaque growth. The testimonials of it working (BTC Home Remedy threads) always seemed to indicate it breaks up or splits hard plaques. The research on the ingredients indicates to me it would only have impact on a calcified plaque. Your thoughts?

Anyone like to comment on my theory?
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 5:13 am     
 
Rzz

 If the formula is going to work does it work better on plaque that is already calcified?

In my opinion it does not matter. The enzymes in the AVC will break down soft tissue as well as the hard tissue once the plaque has calcified. I have found nothing that would indicate one should only use the formula after the plaque has calcified. However, I would NOT use the formula if being treated with some other agent the is dsigned or used to break apart tissue.
 
 

[Old Forum]

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:04 pm     
 
Joshua

 To: RZZ- But is the ACV not for calcification? Which would only occur in a late hardened stage or am I missing something?

To: PDFTD- If you speak back with Mr Thacker, please invite him to the forum. Thanks
 
 

[Joshua]

I am still very interested in an arginine and DMSO mix. I have read about l-arginine being added to diabetic feet rubs/cream to promote blood flow. I would love to see what dmso/l-arginine mixed would do to the penis for blood flow.

[nick]

I tried the formula for about 30 days. I followed the procedue to the letter. I even added heat to aid in the penetration. I did feel like a tingling but that was it. I never experienced a taste or anything. My feeling was while i was mixing that the mixture wasn't right. The whole 70 20 thing I had a hard time with. I am more than willing to try again. Could some body help me out in terms that my feeble brain can understand. Like 1 tble spoon DMSO teaspoon  ACV that kind of thing. Also is there really enough enzymes in the ACV that quickly ? Could one add more enzymes ? Any help would be great I would love to try it again. Maybe the formula and the infared light thing as a combo.

[Joshua]

Nick:
I suggest you go to BTC and read the entire home remedy threads. I suggest you also PM Barry F and RZZ and ask for advice. I remember something about the brand of dmso being important if not vital. Good Luck and keep us updated , if you try it again. hell, it seems safe and if your in a bad way, go fot it and good luck

[nick]

I am going to try it again but I think I f'd up. I got the Nature's way DMSO. 99.9 % pure. After the fact and after all my haste I read on . It is 90% DMSO and 10% distiled water. Is that bad ?

[Joshua]

Are you trying the Thacker formula? I think topical use of DMSO has merit but I am reluctant to mix it as instructed in the thacker formula. I know a bodybuilder that uses DMSO after workouts. He swears it reduces pain and inflamation.
The dmso.org website has so much great informtion.

[nick]

Yes Joshua I am going to try it again. I stated before but I think I had the mix off. I used a 70% dmso and 30% aloe blend. I did notice though that even with that mix. I noticed a difference in the feeling when using a heating pad. There was like a tingling in the area of the scar. So I would say (personal opinion) when using the formula use a heating pad. Pack and wrap your pecker. Than put on a heating pad. I used the heat and formula for about 30 min. The problem is that I only used it for about 2 weeks before stopping (long story).

[Joshua]

Barry:
Do you ever have any further contact with the Thacker family? I hope he will join and answer some questions about the formula.

[nick]

Good morning all, hope all is well. I have been fooling around with the Thaker formula over the last couple weeks. Here is what I have come up with. I have a day formula and a night formula. The night formula I stared with the recomended mixture (70-20-10). To the DMSO I first took one neprinol capsule and opened it and mixed with the DMSO. I waited about 30 min to make sie it was completely disovled. After disolved I mixed in the ACV and castor oil. I also added 1/2 part emu oil (half the amount of the castor oil) and a 1/4 part copper pepptides. I use a sterile gauze pad. I take an eye dropper and soak it. I apply it to the area. I then take rolled gauze and wrap it. Once it is in place I soak the rest with an eye dropper. After nice and moist (not drpping) I wrap with cellophane. It seems to trap the heat and cut back on the smell. I use a heating pad for 30 min. Then since I do this in the evening I leave it one for the rest of the night. I must really soak in because the little woman said she smells the ACV on my breath. Keeping My schlong wrapped while sleeping seems to add support too. Now my day formula is pretty much the same mixture. the difference are 3 things. I also open and add 1 capsule of L-arganine and 1 capsule of MSM (I know of the connection of MSM and DMSO). Once mixed I take 1/2 teaspoon (it it perfect for the mix I make) of white petroleum jelly  . I stick it in the microve for 5 sec. just enough to make liquid. While still liquid but not to hot ( to much heat will break down the enzymes in the neprinol and the avc.  I mix the petroleum jelly in with the mix. I put the lid on the container (I'm using a large pill bottle). I shake the crap out it, for about 15 min (good arm workout :-) . I loosen the cap as the heat may pop it off. I then just let the mixture cool and turn into a cream. In the morning after removing the wrap I wash my junk and then slather on this cream. I have been doing this for about 4 days. In the morning the skin is a little raw but the cream helps with that. So I am going to use for about 5 days and then not use for a day. In the 4 days there has been no reduction in curve (no suprise). The one big change is that the hardest portion of the tendon lie plaque and scar feels softer. It also seems to hand a little straighter when limp. With these small results I am very hopeful for atleast a minimal change. Every little stepp forward is better than one back. I am also still taking my enzymes, co-enzymes, multi V and msm.

[Hawk]

Nick,

Are you a chemist by trade, or are you just trying to put lab rats out of business?

Where in the heck did you come up with this concoction?  Heat resulting from mixing two solutions is pretty solid evidence of a chemical change, meaning you no longer have solution #1 and #2 .  You have a brand new solution #3.  Who can guess what soulution you get tossing in several more components.

[Barry]

Joshua,

I have lost contact with Thacker. He stopped replying to my e-mails to be honest. I think he just did not want to be bothered with it all anymore. He was never rude or un-willing to cooperate he was a real nice guy.He just took a hike from it all. Hope that answered your question.

Barry

BTW, If you have any questions about the Thacker formula I will give them a shot if you want me too.
I am one of the final developers of the formula as it is now. Rzz is the other, he put alot of time into it as well.

[nick]

No I'm not a chemist :-) Just frustrated like everyone else. I just started reading a bit about compounding. I took that with of the info that we as informed Peyronies Disease sufferers take in.  My thought was damn it if nobody is gonna help us then maybe I can. I do my own test study on myself, make my own formula and so on. I hope this helps . I'll report any all results.

[Joshua]

Nick,
Please be careful what you mix with dmso. Remember it is carrying it into your bloodstream. Don't mix anything with dmso you wouldn't or couldn't eat. However, good luck and be careful, PLEASE

[Hawk]

Also, it would be my guess that just because an item can be ingested does not mean it can safely be carried straight to the blood stream.  Organisms that are destroyed by the digestive tract or substances changed by the digestive tract may be unhealthy to take straight into the blood and tissue.

CAUTION ! and good luck (to you and the lab rat) 

[Larry H]

Please let me add my two cents worth here. I have great, no make that grave concerns about this type of experimentation. All have been admonished by both Barry and Rzz to follow the formula carefully. DMSO is powerful and this is way over the top on the risk meter.

Barry, this needs your input!!

Larry H

[nick]

Thank you for your concern. I am and will be careful. There is a certain degree of risk that I am willing to take. I'm not crazy though, there is even a point that I say it's just not worth it. Like the guy once upon a time on the biospecifics forum that was talking about cutting the plaque out with finger nail clippers. That was even to crazy for me.

[Barry]

Nick,
Please don't let your frustrations get the best of you. I will not try to stop you from doing what is considered by most bizarre. But I will throw some cautions at ya.This compound that you are taking is contraindicated if you are taking blood thinners,I feel that you should know that. You are taking two transdermal agents just in case you are not aware of that. Dmso and emu oil both have transdermal properties but of a different nature. One is a greater penetrant than the other. This could be a bit shakey with all the things that your taking as well. I strongly suggest that you stop the use of emu oil in tandem with DMSO.Take one or the other,not both.

The smell your wife speaks of would likely be from the DMSO, because DMSO changes its chemical composition when it enters the body and emits an odor from the skin pores and  breath. Also if you are getting a red rash or burn on your unit you need to treat that. First you should stop using the compound until the redness goes away and treat it with pure unscented aloe vera. My friend you only have one pecker and it is already in trouble not by your choice but, this thing you are doing is a delebrate decision to place you unit into a meltdown. I am asking you to exercise some good judgment in what your doing that is all. Don't take my post as an insult or personal attack as that is far from the reason I am speaking with you. Please slow down and consider what your doing and what I have said to you. That is all I ask.  Good Luck!!!!!!!

Barry   

[nick]

Thank you Barry I appreciate what you're saying. I would never take anything you say as an attack or anything. I understand what you are saying but at this point I am willing to take the risk. I have myself on a 2 week trial so to speak. After that I plan to evaluate the entire situation. The thing that I put in the mix I am aware of what they do and that why I have used them. I have spent quite a bit of time learning what theses things do and how the body may react. So I feel that the amount I'm using will cause irritation yes. However I feel pretty safe that it would not be fatal or anything of the like. I'm paying pretty close attention to how my body is reacting. I'm checking heart rate, temp, watching for GI issues, staying very hyrdrated. So I am in now way going into this lightly. I don't have the luxury of a lab or little critters to experiment on. When guys started using the thaker formula, soy isoflavones  or any of the other thing we have tried. None of us knew what would happen. So if I can say guys this is working or dudes don't try this, then I feel I have done my part for all of us. I really honestly feel I have to take this risk.

[flexor]

While we are all waiting to see if Nick spontaneously combusts, I wonder if Barry or Rzz could comment on the logic behind Thacker’s Formula. I don’t believe that Thacker woke up one morning and thought “Well, last week we tried kerosene, cola and axle grease, and that didn’t work, so this week we will try  DMSO, ACV and Castor oil, and if that doesn’t work, next week we will try something else.” I suspect that Thacker may have had a good reason for using these items, and that any experimenting would be in the percentages.

1. DMSO. A skin penetrant. So that makes sense, but is that all it does ? If DMSO is only a carrier, then only the ACV and the CO can be the active ingredients. Or does DMSO itself have some effect on the plaque ?

2. Apple Cider Vinegar. Vinegar is an old wives remedy for clearing scars. Any other reason for its use?  Why Apple Cider vinegar ? Did Thacker live in an apple-rich community, and this was the easiest to hand, or is there something special about ACV, which means it is the only one to use?

3 Castor Oil. This is the odd one. Looking through the literature of things that have been tried for Peyronies Disease, Castor Oil does not appear. Is it of a molecular weight that can be carried through the skin by the DMSO? What role would it play if it gets to the plaque? Does it soften it ? Or is it just a topical emollient, like zinc & castor oil ointment, to sooth any surface skin irritation caused by the DMSO.

[Glenn]

Flexor,

In the E-Book "The Naturapathic Approaches to Peyronies Disease"  by W. Bodri there is disussion of the Thackers Formula's ingredients.  I would try to post some of it but it is 7 pages long.

Castor Oil among some naturopathic  groups is heralded as having various  healing potential.  It alledgedly works to soften and eliminate cysts.  If you want, I will be glad to try to email you some of the discussion of ingredients. Each one of them has a basis in naturopathic reputation for being included in the formula.

Glenn

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