Topic: mycophenolate mofetil (Read 4096 times)

Whyisthishappening · « **on:** April 19, 2019, 09:43:32 AM »

Anti-fibrotic effect of mycophenolate mofetil on Peyronie’s disease experimentally induced with TGF-β

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41443-019-0138-7?error=cookies_not_supported&code=3a30c172-d60f-4c5f-a3ea-2d3bd1317c8d

"The histochemical analysis revealed the fragmentation and degradation of elastin in the tunica albuginea. This process was partially reversed in the MMF-7d group and a situation very close to normality was observed in the MMF-30d group"

Paolo · « **Reply #1 on:** April 19, 2019, 09:59:30 AM »

Interesting drug used for Chemotherapy and prescription only

Question is for the layman (us) would be getting access to it.
Paul.

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #2 on:** April 19, 2019, 10:05:17 AM »

used for immunosupression in transplants but it is something and allready in use

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #3 on:** May 19, 2019, 01:06:16 AM »

guys if my herbal treatments fail i would consider to start mycophenollate mofetil after getting doctors advice

pey ron · « **Reply #4 on:** May 19, 2019, 06:31:34 PM »

This is an awesome find. I see they sell it for cheap. And they even sell it in powder form to be reconstituted for injection. Ideally this would work well with iontophoresis, I wonder whether it should go on the anode or the cathode...

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #5 on:** May 20, 2019, 12:24:44 AM »

i believe if someone would experiment with mofetil should do it under medical advice and supervision

pey ron · « **Reply #6 on:** May 21, 2019, 01:49:35 AM »

if only i could get my hands on some MMF in powder form...

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #7 on:** May 21, 2019, 05:21:28 AM »

mofetil acts as an inosine inhibitor but i found that SAPPANONE A can selectively inhibit inosine
Highly selective inhibition of IMPDH2 provides the basis of antineuroinflammation therapy
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5530702/
and sappanone a is a component of a herbal tea popular in some parts of the world
what do you think guys?

jj21 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 21, 2019, 06:07:04 AM »

WhyIsThisHappening - bro I love how you aren't giving up and trying to find a solution no matter what. KEep it up man i'm not giving up either we will find a solution together and conquer this.

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #9 on:** May 21, 2019, 06:27:54 AM »

thanks jj we are together in this bro everybody of us no matter our differences
i do not want to be disturbing but please everybody read about mofetil and Peyronies Disease publication it may offer the solution
they managed to have a better collagen I/III ratio even than controls and mofetil targets inosine so i believe we should pay attention on inosine inhibitors i invite every experienced or not member of this forum to find safe mofetil alternatives

Patientxyz1992 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 21, 2019, 08:31:26 AM »

Interesting, do you guys think this would work, also how could we obtain it and would it needed to be injected?

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #11 on:** May 21, 2019, 09:27:01 AM »

it worked in animal studies only 5 DAYS of ORAL administration.The MMF7d and MMF30d is reference to the days post TGF administration not mofetil therapy.
where i live it costs 60 dollars a package of 50x500mg tabs

Patientxyz1992 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 21, 2019, 03:40:27 PM »

Do you know are there much sideeffects, also do you think people are getting cured of peyronies and we dont know?

pey ron · « **Reply #13 on:** May 21, 2019, 05:13:08 PM »

Can you get it without a prescription? Back in my home country (Italy) I could get a lot of stuff without a prescription even though it would be legally required.

hope794 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 21, 2019, 06:44:25 PM »

Great find bro.

jj21 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 21, 2019, 09:40:00 PM »

Patientxyz1992 - I think some people do get cured as many members have not returned to this forum. Check the improvements section as well..... Some members who were experimenting with growth hormone and peptides never returned either - I presume they were healed?

pey ron · « **Reply #16 on:** May 22, 2019, 03:55:30 AM »

Quote from: jj21 on May 21, 2019, 09:40:00 PM

Patientxyz1992 - I think some people do get cured as many members have not returned to this forum. Check the improvements section as well..... Some members who were experimenting with growth hormone and peptides never returned either - I presume they were healed?

which peptides? can you please link their posts?

Bubba dawg · « **Reply #17 on:** May 22, 2019, 05:44:16 AM »

Nobody doing experimental treatments on me! Now if I were terminally ill with no other options, then experiment away. Some of these methods maybe good ones. Yall test them first and get back to us

Crooked_Stick · « **Reply #18 on:** May 22, 2019, 02:39:14 PM »

If I read the report correctly there was no improvement in deformity

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #19 on:** May 22, 2019, 10:40:05 PM »

you interpreted wrong crooked

"The analysis of the penile angle revealed a reduction in the mean angle after the induction of Peyronies Disease with TGF-β. This angle was increased after treatment in the MMF-7d group and increased even further after treatment in the MMF-30d group"
mmf 30d brought rat Peyronies Disease penis closer to control

"The histochemical analysis with the different methods revealed atypical distribution of the connective fibres in the tunica albuginea. Using fluorescence microscopy with hematoxylin-eosin, the degradation and fragmentation of elastin was found in the TGF-β group. This process remained in the MMF-7d group and a situation close to NORMALITY was found in the MMF-30d group"

jj21 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 22, 2019, 10:40:50 PM »

Pey ron - I've lost the links but try a forum search, I think one of them was BPC 157. I found a few posts of people starting or talking about starting their course on growth hormone and peptides then they never returned to the forum. Not sure if they just stopped coming here or were actually healed.

JohnnyDoe · « **Reply #21 on:** May 25, 2019, 02:30:13 PM »

Quote from: Patientxyz1992 on May 21, 2019, 03:40:27 PM

Do you know are there much sideeffects, also do you think people are getting cured of peyronies and we dont know?

There is a list of side effects. It basically weakens your immune system, but should come back to normal after you stop using it. This medicine is normally used for organ transplants, so your body does not reject the new organ.

https://www.rxlist.com/cellcept-side-effects-drug-center.htm

So yeah, who is willing to try? 😅

Hontas · « **Reply #22 on:** May 27, 2019, 01:25:16 PM »

Whyisthishappening

Check your pms mate

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #23 on:** June 18, 2019, 11:43:51 AM »

guys i am currently having a tea of 6g of HEARTWOOD everyday which contains sappanone an inosine inhibitor the name of the tea is SU MU it is very cheap reddish and has no taste.i rinse 6g of heartwood in water for 10min. then boil for 10min. and after is not hot i drink it.take it while fasting for better results, i had improvements and do not know if is reish,i boswellia or heartwood but try yourself
also alpha -carotene is an inosine inhibitor try to eat foods that contain a lot of it (carrots,sweet potatos,avocados,broccoli)

PASS-Predicted Hepatoprotective Activity of Caesalpinia sappan in Thioacetamide-Induced Liver Fibrosis in Rats
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3950979/
"The antifibrotic effects of traditional medicinal herb Caesalpinia sappan (CS)"

" CS treatment was noted to normalize the expression of TGF-β1, αSMA, PCNA, MMPs, and TIMP1 proteins"

" Several studies have shown that CS has antimicrobial and bactericidal activity [8] and antiallergic [9], neuroprotective [10], and hypoglycaemic effects [11]. Others found that extract from CS can be used for treating ascites, tumour, leukaemia [12], and arteriosclerosis [13]. This could be due to its antioxidant activity and its capability to inhibit malondialdehyde (MDA) and scavenging of superoxide anions, hydrogen peroxide, and hydroxyl radicals"

projectpd · « **Reply #24 on:** June 18, 2019, 02:29:48 PM »

@pey ron, that is a good point

it is available as a hydrochloride salt,
https://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB00688

from reading the below then it could be amenable to iontophoresis:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25482587
"Therefore, in this project, ITR was converted to hydrochloride salt (ITR-HCl) to improve its solubility and to render it amenable to iontophoresis."

in addition the molecular weight is 433g/mol , low enough to be likely transportable by DMSO

I wonder, ultrasound could also enhance transdermal delivery; heat , ethanol also can increase transdermal delivery.

it would be understandable to try to avoid a large systemic dose as it is a powerful immune suppressor.

projectpd · « **Reply #25 on:** June 18, 2019, 02:52:03 PM »

@pey run , so I think it would be the anode that you would then use as the active node , see
https://www.freece.com/Documents/Transdermal_Monograph.pdf

however, what does anyone think about whether there is any reason this would be helpful when not in the acute phase.

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #26 on:** June 19, 2019, 03:19:18 AM »

why do you overcomplicate things and why local administration cannot act systemically? it was administered for 6 months to IPF patients with no side effects we have to take it only for 5 DAYS .the rat study was 30mg/kg body weight/day FOR 5 DAYS if your weight is only 70 kilos you are in the recommended dose of IPF study patients and also the rat study analog dose.
i will try to contact a reumatologist who did research with mofetil toSS patients
you can also try su mu tea which is heartwood of caeselpinia sappan no side effects and many systemic benefits i will make a post for it in alternative treatments

projectpd · « **Reply #27 on:** June 21, 2019, 07:58:47 AM »

if anyone tries it, note the statement in the same paper:
In contrast, analysis of fibrosis parameters in vivo revealed
a biphasic pattern: MMF reached a maximal antifibrotic effect at 5 mg/kg
(equivalent of 500mgiday in humans), which declined at 20 mgilcg (human
dose 1.5g/day) and the drug became profibrogenic at 100mg/kg.

I guess that would make estimating a reasonable transdermal dosage more problematic.

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #28 on:** June 21, 2019, 08:29:39 AM »

projectpd can you please cite this mention?
it is very important that we may need an even smaller dose thank you
also tried to contact with no success yet a mofetil researcher

projectpd · « **Reply #29 on:** June 21, 2019, 12:34:35 PM »

sorry, not one of the papers above, but referenced here, still seems worth noting https://www.journal-of-hepatology.eu/article/S0168-8278(07)61934-5/pdf
THE ANTIFIBROTIC EFFECT OF MYCOPHENOLATE
MOFETIL IS LOST AT CLINICALLY RELEVANT DOSE,
IN LIVER FIBROSIS
FOLLOWING A BlPHASlC DOSE-DEPENDENT PATTERN

In contrast, analysis of fibrosis parameters in vivo revealed
a biphasic pattern: MMF reached a maximal antifibrotic effect at 5 mg/kg
(equivalent of 500mg /day in humans), which declined at 20 mg/kg (human
dose 1.5g/day) and the drug became profibrogenic at 100mg/kg,...
Conclusions: 1, MMF demonstrates strong antifibrotic properties in vivo
only at low dose (equivalent to less than 500mgiday in a patient), while
higher doses are ineffective or even profibrogenic

Werther · « **Reply #30 on:** June 22, 2019, 12:19:58 PM »

Quote from: projectpd on June 18, 2019, 02:52:03 PM

however, what does anyone think about whether there is any reason this would be helpful when not in the acute phase.

Projectpd and Whyisthishappening, can you please both clarify on this?

Based on your understanding, might mycophenolate mofetil be helpful for the chronic phase? If so, why?

Post sources in order to support your statements, if you can.

Thanks

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #31 on:** June 22, 2019, 02:46:55 PM »

yes it may be more helpful in the chronic phase because the 30 days rat group after tgf injection saw much more benefits(close to normality) than the 7d after tgf injection group,if you read the pub it says tissue regeneration properties bringing the affected tissue close to normality
if you see the microscope fotos collagen 3/1 ratio looks even better than control (less collagen 3) also elastin structure is almost completely restored
just read very carefully the whole pub its easy to see by yourself the fotos also(collagen 3 black fibers, collagen 1 brown, elastin green )
if you dont understand something specific lets discuss it here because proejctpd mentioned above something about mofetil dosing that was a great find so lets made loads of question and answers here by many members,maybe someone finds something more the better for all of us
i thank you too bro
ps to everybody please try su mu tea and reishi especially if in pain

projectpd · « **Reply #32 on:** June 22, 2019, 03:50:04 PM »

Hi Werther,
I can't see that anyone suggested that would be the case, I already raised the question in #25. The study seems to add to the existing view in the forum on the potential effectiveness of early treatment, in the acute phase, as opposed to the wait-and-see advice that has been the norm. Then again the study did not collect data that might have been more relevant to a chronic phase.

projectpd · « **Reply #33 on:** June 22, 2019, 04:02:53 PM »

sorry @Whyisthishappening, I had not seen your message above. The problem is the rats' condition was probably still developing after 30 days even allowing for their faster life cycle vs humans. In the Discussion section they made the below statements but I found difficult to interpret:

This characterises an improvement in the acute phase of the disease and may interrupt and even attenuate or reverse the formation of ﬁbrotic plaque. The lower collagen III and collagen ratio values in the MMF-30 group than the control group suggests that MMF treatment may not reverse the ﬁbrosis effect, but acts in another way.

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #34 on:** June 22, 2019, 09:48:36 PM »

projectpd i find difficult to interpret also the same statement
what do you guys think to contact the researchers?

Werther · « **Reply #35 on:** June 23, 2019, 12:23:13 PM »

Quote from: projectpd on June 22, 2019, 04:02:53 PM

In the Discussion section they made the below statements but I found difficult to interpret:

This characterises an improvement in the acute phase of the disease and may interrupt and even attenuate or reverse the formation of ﬁbrotic plaque. The lower collagen III and collagen ratio values in the MMF-30 group than the control group suggests that MMF treatment may not reverse the ﬁbrosis effect, but acts in another way.

It's indeed difficult to understand clearly what the authors are trying to say. IMO it looks like they're stating that the drug might be helpful in the acute phase but not in the chronic one, as you stated; I base my thinking on the fact that they speak of reversal with regards to "the formation of ﬁbrotic plaque" which happens during the acute phase but then they add that "MMF treatment may not reverse the ﬁbrosis effect" which is the late stage of peyronie's (i.e. the chronic phase).

I may be wrong though.

I agree with your idea Whyisthishappening: maybe it could be of help getting in touch with the authors of this study and ask them specifically about this passage.

If anybody get to know anything, please post it here.

Thanks again.

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #36 on:** June 24, 2019, 08:12:26 AM »

i just talked to a mofetil researcher not the one of Peyronies Disease study but a reummatologist
he read the Peyronies Disease publication and told me that for 5 days in the smallest dose 500mg cannot hurt anybody but that we should consider its immunosuppresive properties,also he told me for scleroderma they took it for 3 to 6 months in higher doses and that 5 days for him is not long enough to have any effect(he was surpprised that the mice study showed results in just five days) maybe the solution is just a drugstre and 5 away who knows?
so accordind to projectpd mention of 500mg/day showing maximum antifibrotic effect i will try it for 5 days in the dose of 500mg/day after some blood test i will do this week or the next one
if anybody is willing to talk to the brasillian researchers of mofetil Peyronies Disease study please do

JohnnyDoe · « **Reply #37 on:** June 26, 2019, 06:15:58 AM »

Good luck man, respect for trying it. Looking forward to read the results.

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #38 on:** June 28, 2019, 03:39:13 PM »

thank you johhny i will keep everybody informed

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #39 on:** July 05, 2019, 07:43:37 AM »

guys they stopped selling mofetil in my country from july 1st i cannot take it i would talk again to the reummatologist

Werther · « **Reply #40 on:** July 06, 2019, 12:33:00 PM »

I'm sorry to hear this man. Does this mean that you won't get to experiment with this drug?

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #41 on:** July 06, 2019, 10:40:48 PM »

no i will try to get it man

Patientxyz1992 · « **Reply #42 on:** July 07, 2019, 09:37:40 AM »

Im in north carolina now, do you now maybe can i buy this drug over the counter?

Werther · « **Reply #43 on:** July 07, 2019, 10:33:57 AM »

@Whyisthishappening:

Good luck then and please keep us updated.

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #44 on:** July 08, 2019, 06:54:25 AM »

i found it with the name CELLCEPT but i need prescription so i will try to get it

Patientxyz1992 · « **Reply #45 on:** July 08, 2019, 06:23:21 PM »

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-07-metformin-reverses-lung-fibrosis.html

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #46 on:** August 27, 2019, 03:10:32 PM »

i just talked to my urologist(one of many) he cannot prescribe mofetil it needs special prescription from a reummatologist i also tried my luck to three pharmacists today but they told me that they have to order it with the special prescription in hand so will try my luck with reummatologists i hope someone will understand and give a prescription

Whyisthishappening · « **Reply #47 on:** August 29, 2019, 02:38:41 PM »

i called the reummatologist of the scleroderma study today and he does not prescribe it to me.next week i will try other reummatologists .he told that it is used for organ transplantation and reummatologic use is off label but very common for lupus.
there are people in this sub forum that are very active searching for crazy compounds,guys what makes you believe that a compound in a lab which we cannot buy and they use it for other conditions and not Peyronies Disease could be more effective than mofetil
i will say it again mofetil its our only realistic option and even that may not work on human subjects

JohnnyDoe · « **Reply #48 on:** August 29, 2019, 07:42:34 PM »

Doctors are responsible for the medicine they prescribe, therefore it might be hard to find someone who gives this based on an animal study, but I admire you trying! Who knows, it might work.

But I am sure so many things have not been tested yet for this disease. From what I read, seems like the medical world has not yet figured out to properly treat scar tissue in general.

Hontas · « **Reply #49 on:** August 30, 2019, 09:01:38 AM »

Whyisthishappening,

This isn't an autoimmune disease, it is an autoinflammatory one. The best bet is drugs like Colchicine or biologics that are used to lower certain types of inflammatory cytokines. I have had problems communicating with the doctors in that retrospect and taking immune suppressive drugs will not be the solution from what i know theoretically, as there isn't any antibody being produced if you have a negative autoimmune marker test. Its all about DAMP and PAMP overreaction and response and a bit of underlying genetics that makes you vulnerable to mutation and myofibroblast differentiation. But you can at least try it. Colchicine is a mixed drug for me as i am not sure if it actually helps, as i had severe side effects and had to stop the treatment right now for my own life's sake and i am not even sure if lower doses help by lowering inflammation or make it worse over time by delaying healing. I have realised while taking colchicine that i have a lot of minor scar spots in other places and i am not sure if colchicine is actually returning them back to acute to dissolve them or simply just creates them. First one has a higher chance of happening and i am just betting right now to be honest.

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Author Topic: mycophenolate mofetil (Read 4096 times)

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