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[TonySa]

Guys, there’s lots of research on the benefits of fasting but one must stay hydrated.  No scientific support to speak of for dry fasting EXCEPT that it can be dangerous to ones health.  Please be careful.

[JS1991]

Incorrect, you pull all the fluid you need from fat  while dry fasting. And although there is a lack of scientific articles on dry fasting, there is no exception to this regarding it being dangerous to health. I’ve dry fasted 9 days straight, not only with no I’ll effect, but it’s the only time I’ve ever regained sensitivity in my glans. That being said, I appreciate your concern and will mention that I am ALWAYS careful and always put safety first.

Keto is retarded (beneficial, but extremely slow, and the lack of protein is horrible), intermittent fasting takes forever to see results, water fasting gets them slowly, and dry fasting gets them fast. Those are the facts, as many including myself have experienced. Do you think I’m just making stuff up? Did my glans spontaneously begin refilling with blood and regain sensitivity by chance after a 9 day dry fast? It must be done correctly, and to be honest the only reason I don’t outright suggest dry fasting to everyone is because I don’t trust people to do it correctly. But when done properly dry fasting gives amazing results.

[TonySa]

JS, there’s tons of research on fasting and almost all of it aligns that there can be beneficial effects IF one at least drinks water.  That said, if it works for you great but as you said it can be dangerous for others.  Maybe you have some fluids while “dry fasting” when you say you do it correctly? 

[skunkworks]

Those are the facts, as many including myself have experienced.

You should not be putting forward anecdotal experiences as fact. When you say many, do you mean many Peyronie's sufferers? Where would you meet many Peyronie's sufferers except here?

What is many, ballpark figure?

[JS1991]

Fasting, overall, is an under researched field. 20 years ago there was no research on intermittent fasting. Does that mean it did not work? No, it worked then as it does now, but since we have the studies, people are currently getting more and more into it. Extended water fasts are slowly being subjected to more and more research. There are even a few current studies! In 5-10 years, I bet there are a lot more studies showing that it is even more beneficial than IF. And the same goes for dry fasting. There are no studies on it, but those of us who have pieced together anecdotal accounts, tried to theorize as best we could on the potential efficacy, pulled what info we could from the Russian doctors, we believed it could be what people say it is: a more effective form of extended water fasting. Which itself is a more effective form of intermittent fasting. With that hypothesis, we tested it ourselves, pioneering a treatment, a new frontier if you will. And we have seen results.

Am I to disregard these anecdotal experiences entirely? I feel that is a personal choice, to be made by the individual. You two are obviously more cautious than I, and that is okay! When I say many, do I mean many Peyronie’s sufferers? No, because I’m the only one who tried it to the extent of repeated extended fasts. And I’ve come back and given my results. I promise you, I would not subject myself to it if it did not work. So now, sitting here with the results I am so happy about, to the point where I regard it as a satisfactory primary treatment (and I'm no longer seeking an alternative), should I keep my mouth shut about it? No, I will spread the word, if only in this one small thread. And I ALWAYS preach safety first, something you both as moderators should respect (and I feel you do, and I want to thank you for that). I also go out of my way to provide the safest manner in which to conduct the fast.

Tony said "Maybe I had some fluids when “dry fasting” when I say I did it correctly?" No, I went 9 days without any fluid, or any food. Another time I went 7, that time with zero water contact including showers. I was totally fine and I regained sensitivity in my glans, something I am still ecstatic about, and something I’m very proud to have achieved; a result of my willingness to plunge into an under researched field and take a chance. Skunkworks said "What is 'many,' a ballpark figure?" With the caveat that I’m the only Peyronie’s sufferer to have conducted the extended dry fasting, and therefore including sufferers of assorted ailments, the answer is dozens. And yes this is anecdotal, but it was anecdotal to myself as well until I undertook the journey and experienced the results firsthand. There is a huge stigma around dry fasting, and rightly so, we are taught the body cannot go three days without water. In reality, we’re like camels, due to our fat being 80% water. That being said, as I always mention, if done incorrectly there can be issues. But it follows almost the same rules as an extended water fast.

I’ll repeat what I said in the beginning: 20 years ago (probably sooner than that) there was no research on IF. If I would have told you I was getting results from it you would have called me crazy. Does that mean it didn’t work? No, it worked then as it does now. And I hypothesized, then proved via experimentation that dry fasting also works. I hope you can respect that. And I understand where you’re both coming from as moderators and I have so much respect for the both of you, you have Peyronie’s sufferer’s well being as your number one priority, as it should be. Bravo to the both of you, and keep up the good work gentlemen. And thank you for allowing me to share my experiences. For those willing to gauge the risk (minimal if done right) and go through with dry fasting, I hope my experiences can be of some help. But again, it must be done right. If one feels they aren't capable of following it properly, I would suggest extended water fasting.

And that's about it. I'm going to continue leaving small anecdotes of my dry fasting experiences in this thread for sufferers to keep track of, and follow if they choose. And in the meantime, I'm going to continue my interactions in the water fasting thread, which I'm happy to see several people have taken the plunge into, and benefited from.

[TonySa]

Thanks JS, I think you’re last post puts it into perspective...some are trying a new controversial approach and will keep us posted.

[JS1991]

Thanks for being so understanding Tony. And thanks for all you do on the forum, you’re such a big help to so many broken men. I remember you being one of the first people to respond and give me advice when I first came on the forum. You should be proud of the level headed assistance you provide fellow members.

[skunkworks]

Well said JS1991. I think your long post above paints a much clearer picture than previously. Up to everyone else to make their own decisions about how to approach fasting.

[willy31]

Hi,

Do you think fasting can be effective for me? I have a terrible diffuse fibrosis (99% of my penis is affected). I have do a thread: https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,12402.0.html

Fasting reduce just inflammation or fibrosis also?

Thank you.

[JS1991]

Yes, I also have diffused scar tissue. Fasting will lower inflammation and slowly chip away at the scarring; it’s the only thing that has been effective for me. Start with water fasting if you’ve never fasted before, there’s a thread on it on this forum.

[Christopher1]

I second the benefits of fasting - water or dry. I do believe dry to be better. I once did dry fasting with saunas - but could not get past 2 days.

[JS1991]

Update:

Some very good news. I haven’t been able to do any long dry fasts so I’ve taken to intermittent dry fasting. Specifically, I’m doing OMAD. So I’ll eat all my food and drink all my fluids for the day in no longer than an hour window. I can usually do it in about half an hour. For example I’ll eat a large meal when I wake up, and drink 1-2 liters of fluids with it. Then I’ll dry fast until the same time the next day. Of course, I’m making sure I get all the nutrition I need in that one big meal. Mostly meat and fruit.

The result has been a big drop in inflammation. If I was 80% healed from inflammation before doing dry OMAD, I’m now at 90%. Not really seeing much improvement in hard flaccid or scar tissue with this method, but it’s very effective for inflammation. I highly recommend anyone with stubborn inflamed penile tissue to try this for one month. It is easy and produces great results.

As for my hard flaccid, as I’ve said in the past, the only thing that helped in a big/noticeable way was a long dry fast. I regained sensitivity in my glans after my longest fast. I’m going to try another long one soon, hopefully starting on the 11th of November.

Another effective technique for hard flaccid is using the therawand while FULLY ERECT. Seems to be way more effective this way. I’ve also permanently rid myself of the tight muscles preventing me from sitting without pain by massaging my ishiocavernosus (sic?) muscles. The ones that run down your penis towards the root and curl out into a Y shape. Again, I rubbed this muscle externally while fully erect and I can now sit without pain. Also permanently rid myself of some hard flaccid muscle pain (all of this I’ve had for about 2 years) by pressing into my butt cheeks externally, then inwards toward the anal muscles. Again, while erect. Basically the same muscles you hit while using the therawand internally, but you hit them from the outside. Just some techniques that I hope can help some hard flaccid sufferers.

I’ll report back when I do another long fast but at this rate I should be completely free of inflammation by 2020 (probably sooner) and have most of my scar tissue remodeled to boot. All I need to do besides that is get rid of hard flaccid, then begin using VED and I should be close to what I was pre-peyronies. Super optimistic about my future. Hope anyone who reads this can take some tips from it. Good luck everyone!

[TonySa]

What does it mean inflammation is improved?  How does one know this, visually?

[JS1991]

Inflammation = pain. It can not be known visually. It must be experienced. Direct reduction in pain (to the point where it's almost completely gone) after fasting.

How do I know I wasn't naturally going into chronic phase? Because my entire penis was inflamed and pain levels would not budge no matter what I tried, until I fasted. Fasting gave me immediate, noticeable results in terms of reduction of pain. Any time I would take a break I would maintain. Even if I took a break from fasting for a few months (which I did), the pain would not budge. Then as soon as I started fasting again I would get permanent reduction. I'd say my pain (inflammation) was about 70-80% gone (compared to my initial pre-fasting levels) before I started intermittent dry fasting a month ago. It's now down to 90-95% pain reduction. I want to say it's completely pain-free but that would be a lie, there is a very slight pain, barely noticeable, in former areas of inflammation. At this rate, that will be gone very soon.

Now that my pain is completely under control, I must rid myself of hard flaccid. That is the most difficult thing for me, and the only thing that has given me major, permanent improvement in that regard is extended dry fasting. I've gotten slow results over time stretching my pelvic floor and using the therawand as well. Once that is done with, I will use VED to hit my hourglassing. I was actually in so much pain that I wanted to hold off using VED until I reduced pain levels. I have now achieved that and feel comfortable using VED, although I'd like to get rid of hard flaccid first. Overall, I am extremely satisfied with fasting as a treatment.

To summarize what dry fasting is good for (in my own experience):

Great for ridding oneself of inflammation/pain, even if one does OMAD.

Effective at improving hard flaccid symptoms permanently, but only if one does an extended fast while abstaining.

Very slowly reduces scar tissue via a LOT of fasting. I've done multiple 4-9 day fasts and a ton of OMAD. Mine is about 40% reduction compared to where it was. It takes a long time to chip away at it. But it's the only treatment I know of that can achieve this.

[AlterEgo]

Are you sure the hard flacid isn't scar tissue making the penis feel hardened?

[skunkworks]

If that was the case, erections would be impossible.

[AlterEgo]

If that was the case, erections would be impossible.

  I don't think would be impossible because not 100% of the tissue would have scar.  My corporas are hard to the touch and I would assume this is due to scar tissue present.  I also have some pits/indentation near the base of the underside.

[melting]

My corporas are hard to the touch

This is normal. Around the corporas you have naturally hard tissue. In the most flaccid state and in the most erect state this can be felt as one hard mass. What makes them flexible(to a point) is a mesh like structure and elastin(which is missing in scar tissue and plaques)

[JS1991]

When my pelvic floor muscles are relaxed (when I pee for example) my penis is completely soft to the touch. When the muscles are tight it goes back to hard flaccid. The level of "hardness" of the tissue fluctuates throughout the day accordingly. When I lay down, for example (a natural loosening of the muscles) it is almost always soft. When I stand up (muscles tighten a bit), it gets more of the classic hard flaccid. Before I started any treatment (fasting, trigger point release, abstinence) it was very hard to the touch. Even now, if I get into an intensely stressful situation, like getting pulled over with weed (happened recently), my flaccid penis retracts inwards and gets extremely hard to the touch. This is the nature of hard flaccid. It really sucks, and it is worse than Peyronie's, in my opinion (at least the symptoms are). The good part about it is that once the muscles are fully released I'll be completely back to normal. It's just extremely hard to get them to release.

A good resource to better understand the condition:

https://www.urologynews.uk.com/features/synopsis/post/hard-flaccid-syndrome

And although this is a reddit post it is extremely on point/informative. It's basically a collection of everything I've ever read on the internet regarding the subject:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hard_Flaccid/comments/d9qrpc/a_start_to_a_hard_flaccid_free_life/

[skunkworks]

Nothing wrong with reddit for some topics. Politics/religion etc it is a total dumpster fire, but it has gold content for product reviews and rare health conditions.

[AlterEgo]

When my pelvic floor muscles are relaxed (when I pee for example) my penis is completely soft to the touch. When the muscles are tight it goes back to hard flaccid. The level of "hardness" of the tissue fluctuates throughout the day accordingly. When I lay down, for example (a natural loosening of the muscles) it is almost always soft. When I stand up (muscles tighten a bit), it gets more of the classic hard flaccid. Before I started any treatment (fasting, trigger point release, abstinence) it was very hard to the touch. Even now, if I get into an intensely stressful situation, like getting pulled over with weed (happened recently), my flaccid penis retracts inwards and gets extremely hard to the touch. This is the nature of hard flaccid. It really sucks, and it is worse than Peyronie's, in my opinion (at least the symptoms are). The good part about it is that once the muscles are fully released I'll be completely back to normal. It's just extremely hard to get them to release.

A good resource to better understand the condition:

https://www.urologynews.uk.com/features/synopsis/post/hard-flaccid-syndrome

And although this is a reddit post it is extremely on point/informative. It's basically a collection of everything I've ever read on the internet regarding the subject:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hard_Flaccid/comments/d9qrpc/a_start_to_a_hard_flaccid_free_life/

Did fasting help to rid you of that hardness and regain that soft flexible texture (elastin)?

[JS1991]

AlterEgo, yes. Long fasts (while simultaneously abstaining during and for a few days after the fast) are the only thing that has provided a big result for me. Literally loosened my muscles up. I have also seen improvement from deep breathing while doing stretches (happy baby yoga pose) + therawand + seeing a pelvic floor physical therapist. It permanently gave me back a portion of the sensation I lost in the head of my penis. My glans also now partially refills with blood. The catch is, it's hard/takes a lot of willpower to do a long dry fast. If you'd like to try, I'd suggest starting with a long water fast first. Then move onto dry fasting once you've grown comfortable with water fasting. Water fasting should also provide some results. But you must completely abstain for the duration of the fast and a few days afterwards.

[AlterEgo]

AlterEgo, yes. Long fasts (while simultaneously abstaining during and for a few days after the fast) are the only thing that has provided a big result for me. Literally loosened my muscles up. I have also seen improvement from deep breathing while doing stretches (happy baby yoga pose) + therawand + seeing a pelvic floor physical therapist. It permanently gave me back a portion of the sensation I lost in the head of my penis. My glans also now partially refills with blood. The catch is, it's hard/takes a lot of willpower to do a long dry fast. If you'd like to try, I'd suggest starting with a long water fast first. Then move onto dry fasting once you've grown comfortable with water fasting. Water fasting should also provide some results. But you must completely abstain for the duration of the fast and a few days afterwards.

Extended dry fasting seems dangerous there are people who say people have died from goign without water for 2 or 3 days.  When you say abstain do you mean abstain from sexual activity or eating/drinking water?  I'm glad you have received positive results from fasting.  I am hoping I can get more blood into shaft so it is not so flat but more cylinder in shape and also get my elastin back because the corporas are way to hard to the touch to be normal both in flaccid and erect position and I do believe this is due more to scarring than to pelvic floor tightness

[JS1991]

The “die after 2 or 3 days” thing is BS I’ve gone 9 and could have gone longer. As long as you have fat on your body to serve as fuel (provides calories, water and nutrition your body naturally stores) and you’re resting/ not physically exerting yourself you’re good. The only way I can see the 3 day and die without water thing being true is if you’re lost in a desert or some extreme survival situation where you’re physically exerting yourself, sweating and rapidly losing electrolytes. Even then you’ll probably survive much longer. But do what you feel is right for you.

By abstaining I mean from sexual activity. An easy way to know if you have hard flaccid vs scar tissue is to take notice of the state of your flaccid penis when you urinate. Does it feel softer to the touch? If so it is hard flaccid. If not, may be scar tissue.

[AlterEgo]

The “die after 2 or 3 days” thing is BS I’ve gone 9 and could have gone longer. As long as you have fat on your body to serve as fuel (provides calories, water and nutrition your body naturally stores) and you’re resting/ not physically exerting yourself you’re good. The only way I can see the 3 day and die without water thing being true is if you’re lost in a desert or some extreme survival situation where you’re physically exerting yourself, sweating and rapidly losing electrolytes. Even then you’ll probably survive much longer. But do what you feel is right for you.

By abstaining I mean from sexual activity. An easy way to know if you have hard flaccid vs scar tissue is to take notice of the state of your flaccid penis when you urinate. Does it feel softer to the touch? If so it is hard flaccid. If not, may be scar tissue.

I've discovered the major issue I am facing.  A few years ago I was having sex and a chunk of the layer underneath the skin (maybe fat or connective tissue or fascia) peeled off.  I could see this underneath the skin and it was stinging.  I didn't abstain form sexual activity afterwards so I am assuming that area kept getting rubbed and did not heal. I am not sure which part of that chunk of the stuff underneath the skin is dead or alive tissue.  But to get healed I need to get healthy tissue on the area that rubbed off.   I am hoping fasting and shockwave will help me

[TonySa]

Shockwave has not been helpful for most, maybe a few for Erectile Dysfunction only.
Has a urologist examined you?

[AlterEgo]

Shockwave has not been helpful for most, maybe a few for Erectile Dysfunction only.
Has a urologist examined you?

Hi Tony thanks for the reply.  Yes, I have seen a Urologist and they totally miss the mark.  I've been suffering with this greatly.  This is from a post on this website regarding shockwave results from a member I believe it's in the shockwave topic threads.  Shockwave has been used for tissue regeneration so I am going ot give it a try.  The only other 2 remedies I can think of are fasting and a tissue graft.  I still have pain in the area so hopefully that means there is still a chance it can heal.  It creates instability in my penis making it wiggly like a loose tooth.  I wish I could get tissue in the area to fill the gap so things could stabilize.  I am unsure if having an erection rips the tissue every time so I am going to try abstaining form sexual activity for a while.   What are your thoughts? 

 "Haven't checked in on these forums in a while but I just wanted to let you guys know about the shockwave treatment. I wanted to be in Dr Goldsteins (SDSM's) clinical trial but I could not comply with the medications. Instead I manned up and went into TJ. I have gotten 9 shockwave treatments so far. They use LSWT and ESWT (linear and focalized) and it has been gradually improving my peyronies. I had mild peyroneis mostly at the base. I have venous leakage, corporal fibrosis, and really just fibrosis everywhere, tunica and cavernosa.

This treatment is working better than everything else even though it's designed for Erectile Dysfunction and not really peyronies, but I am making those gains! My penis is getting way thicker again as the fibrosis is being chizzled away. The FDA f'~c<+d me with Propecia and now Mexico is picking up the pieces of my penis and putting them back together. Viva la Revelucion mis amigos!

Look up Dr Allejandro Lira Urologist - Pacific Sexual Health - Hospital Angeles. Just thought I owed it to you guys to spread this word. I wish you all the best. I never thought a few clicks/taps to my penis could get my old penis back. It's easy to forget how life used to be, it's funny."

Here you can see some results of using shockwave #5 says wound healing https://www.trtllc.com/shockwave-summary.html

[TonySa]

Helpful for Erectile Dysfunction OR Peyronies?

[AlterEgo]

Helpful for Erectile Dysfunction OR Peyronies? Tissue damage in shaft and spongiosum

[zidious]

Why choose between dry and waterfast completely? Cant you combine both? Start with a 2 or 3 day dryfast, since that seems to be what people do anyway, and then turn it into a waterfast that you can do for a longer period? You'll get a few days of more efficient fasting (if this is true) and you minimize the risks since you start drinking water. Just a thought that popped into my head now after googling a lot about fasting.

[JS1991]

That would be the most effective way to fast while still keeping it easy. After the 72 hour mark while dry fasting you run low on electrolytes and start feeling crappy . The point of continuing on is because the autophagy after that point is insane, but if you switch to water fasting it makes it way easier. Just slower. Basically just a question of how much discomfort are you willing to endure for enhanced results.

[zidious]

That would be the most effective way to fast while still keeping it easy. After the 72 hour mark while dry fasting you run low on electrolytes and start feeling crappy . The point of continuing on is because the autophagy after that point is insane, but if you switch to water fasting it makes it way easier. Just slower. Basically just a question of how much discomfort are you willing to endure for enhanced results.

Yeah but its also the matter of safety. You need water. The body can handle weeks without food but not water. And I imagine it takes less than 72 hours without food and water before you start feeling crappy. Better to be safe than sorry.

[anchorout]

Robert Lockhart, a well-known raw foodist and proponent of dry fasting, recently died at the age of 75, his body shutting down despite his being in seemingly excellent health. Here is a video made by an associate of the man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNv64a44f08&t=680s

Just because you can survive more than a few days without water, it does not mean you aren't doing long-term damage to your organs. Do not dry fast, ever.

[TonySa]

Please, avoid dry fasting!

Fasting and Cleansing

Started by cbijk Alternative Treatments of Peyronie's Disease

Water fasting.

Started by JS1991 « 1 2 3 4 » Alternative Treatments of Peyronie's Disease

I rid myself of a painful dent and lowered my inflammation by fasting!!!! (pics)

Started by JS1991 Improvement - Accounts of improvements in deformity or erection.