DMSO and DMSO based Solutions

[Liam]

If DMSO were the cure, everyone would know it.  It is not a cure.  I would not use it myself, but have heard of no serious consequences.  I do think your concerns are justified, though.  Try taking ibuprofen for the inflammation (I'm serious).

I am no fan of government agencies.  If you want something screwed up, create a bureaucracy around it.  The FDA has huge problems.  I do trust them more than companies trying to sell you something, though.  You can't buy off every employee of the FDA.  If something really works, the word will get out.

I don't mean what I am going to say in a mean spirited way.  Propecia makes a nice scapegoat.  If it were responsible for everything some of these websites say, it would have been pulled, no doubt.  I'm just saying to keep an open mind about the cause.  Don't be convinced by speculation.

[ocelot556]

Hi! Since you were all so very helpful with my other questions (on different topics - I've been without PC access for a while, so my apologies for not thanking you all - especially Hawk, Liam and OldMan!) I've got another one for you. Obviously, about DMSO.

I bought a bunch of it after reading about Thacker's formula, A bottle of 99% pure, a mix of 70% DMSO and 30% Aloe Vera, and a cream of DMSO mixed with aloe and vitamin E.

I've been combining the pure DMSO with 12,000 IU Vitamin E and, from time to time (to combat inflammation and hardening of the plaques in my Peyronies Disease) I apply it directly. I only leave it on for 5-10 minutes, but when I do this for a few days on end I tend to feel better.

My Peyronies Disease acts up sometimes after sex or masturbation, so I tend to use it afterwards - but I'm constantly worried.

All of the DMSO websites claim it's completely safe, but sometimes it feels like they're just trying to "sell" the drug. I don't trust the FDA worth a damn, so I don't beleive that DMSO is unsafe either (it's just not profitable for the pharma companies who've bought off the FDA).

I'm worried about what's being carried through the tissue by the DMSO, and how it might affect me. I don't overdo it - I use it maybe four or five times a month - but every time I do I'm paranoid that the soap I use to wash it off is being carried through, the minerals in my shower water are being carried through, the dye of the boxers I pull on afterwards is being carried through.

I guess I'd just like to be assured that it's either not that dangerous, or hear from people who use it without problem. Since I'm convinced that Propecia gave me my Peyronies Disease in the first place, I'm so incredibly wary about using MORE chemicals to help myself. Erk. Any advice would be appreciated.

[ComeBacKid]

Maxmoreno,

Many months ago I spent considerable time reviewing the dmso information, which is a PART of thackers formula.  I can't recall a single person telling me they were healed from either DMSO or thackers formula.  I know of no scientific studies done on either as well.  I would say with confidence we can't consider this a common way of healing.  However it may still be worth looking into, and appears to be safe.  One of our forum members Barry, spent considerable time himself dealing with thackers, and claims to know of people it healed.

Comeback

[maxmoreno]

 Hello,
 
 I have reviewed the information for DMSO on www.dmso-use.com 
 and I was wondering if somebody has experienced this medicine. Can we consider this as a common way of healing?
 
 Thank you.

[hopeful]

Hi Barry...

I Just found a supply of 99.9% pure DMSO- Here is what I am thinking- instead of using vigear, I am thinking of using the following enzymes:

Protease - dissolves fibrin -
Nattokinase - the same
Serrapeptase - derived from the silk worm- eats the fibin as welll- plaque, etc..

I would love to hear from you first before doing this- The dmso is the carrier...

Please let me know..
Hopeful

By request I am posting a newly revised version of the Thacker Formula to this topic.


The formula CAN be premixed. How many days in advance were not discussed with Thacker but all indications lead to 3-5 days. The premixed batch must be sealed when not in use and kept at room temperature. (DO NOT refrigerate premixed batches). The formula is comprised of 70%DMSO-20%Apple Cider Vinegar-10%Castor OIL.

[Rzz]

Pectin is not an enzyme. It is a complex made up of different polysaccharides linked together. It is primarily used to thicken jam.

Like a lot of stuff one can read here, the information is not always accurate. Pectin has a pro-health effect by serving as a source of fiber in the diet - but as a way to cure Peyronies... I do not see a way for it to help.

Tim

You are correct Pectin in itself is not an enzyme. I should have written Pectinase. I write Pectinase as Pectin for short in all my notes and that is how I transfered to the last post. Pectinase is an enzyme.

Pectin is indeed used to thicken jams, however pectin also serves a purpose in the fruit or plant it is in. Pectin is what holds the plant or fruit together. The way pectin is made to thicken jams is caused by Pectinase (a enzyme).

Pectinases are produced during the ripening process of many plants and fruits (including apples), where together with cellulases they "soften the cell walls." This byproduct of the softening is the thickening agent for jams. Pectinase causes the degredation of cell walls holding many plants and fruits together, including apples.

Tyrosinase, among others, is another cell degrading enzyme found in apples.

Rzz

[Tim468]

Pectin is not an enzyme. It is a complex made up of different polysaccharides linked together. It is primarily used to thicken jam.

Like a lot of stuff one can read here, the information is not always accurate. Pectin has a pro-health effect by serving as a source of fiber in the diet - but as a way to cure Peyronies... I do not see a way for it to help.

Tim

[hopeful]

Thanks for getting back to me- I am impressed with what I have read thus far. As for the enzymes- I am a firm believer in them- and feel they may hold the key- in solving the Peyronies Disease problem- As you know- AUxulliums new wonder drug is nothing but an enzyme being packaged as a drug. (Collagenease) I am wondering now with all the new material about enzymes- including the Protease enzymes as wellas the Nanokanease and Serepetease- (Neprinol formula- only oral) if these enzymes could be mixed with DMSO - as a carrier, as they are much stronger then Pectin in eating fibritic material and plaque...  I am personally doing research with a small drug company.. and will discuss the DMSO as a carrier,, will keep you posted

Hopeful

There are different types of enzymes in Apple Cider Vinegar. One that comes into play here is called Pectin.
The DMSO is the carrier

[Rzz]

Hopeful,

Yes people have reported positive results using the formula. Some are contributors to this forum. However, it has worked better for some than others and for some it has not worked at all. Like most treatments, improvement is slow and takes patience. I'm not trying to discourage or encourage you to use the formula. That is a decision you will have to make yourself, but in all my research and all those who have reported to me I have not found one that had any devastaing side effects. The two main side effects reported to me were an initial burning in the first phases of treatment and unpleasant odor from the breath or when one heavily prespires. I would like to give you or anybody thinking of using the formula some advice; When ever in doubt about anything to do with using the formula i.e. mixing it, applying it etc.., "Don't assume, always ask before taking the next step."

By the way, most people think that burning sensation they get when they first use the formula is caused by the DMSO. It is not. It is caused by the acid in the vinegar. 

There are different types of enzymes in Apple Cider Vinegar. One that comes into play here is called Pectin.

The DMSO is the carrier
The Castor Oil is the base that holds it together as well as neutralizes the acid in the vinegar.
The Apple Cider Vinegar provides the enzymes.

Good luck and let me know if I can help you further,     Rzz

HI Rzz..

This is Hopeful,

You did read it wrong- I have not tried it yet- I am trying to find out if anyone has had any success-

Please let me know- I am not taking any drugs at all!- WHat is the particular enzyme in the vinegar?- How long should you take it?-

Thanks,

Hopeful

Hopeful,

I'm not sure I'm reading your post correctly. It seems as if you may be saying you are mixing other drugs with DMSO and using that. If this is what you are doing, I STRONGLY urge you to STOP. One of the major factors of pharmaceuticals is the way they are introduced to the system.   

[hopeful]

Nick... where are you- what happened with the DMSO?- ANy improvement.. Please let us know.

Hopeful

Yes Joshua I am going to try it again. I stated before but I think I had the mix off.

[soxfan]

Hopeful,

I posted my very positive experience using the Thacker Formula. You should put in some time and read the thread at the bottom of the page entitled: powerful home remedy/Thacker Formula.

The ingredients are safe and inexpensive but you have to use it for 6/7 days a weekd, 2 hours a day and for upwards of a year or more. Those who say it doesn't work probably used it sporadically for a month or two and then gave up, it is a long term treatment that requires some commitment.

[hopeful]

Hey ComeBackid - this is Hopeful- How are you doing- Please let me know what you did,, how much improvement as far as deformity, size, etc- what pump did you use.. and what other treatments- DMSO, Thackers, etc.?- what about Soxfan- what is this?

Hopeful

Soxfan,

Thanks for adding your experience with thackers, i have heard of your good results, but I wanted everyone else to.

Tim,

The ved is effective, I can state for a fact that it had increased my flaccid size, mainly in length, it took daily usage for about 3 months until I saw results.  I should also state I hold each erection for about 30 seconds to a minute.  I do about 10-15 reps.  My erections are very full as well now and my penis appears thicker when erect.  I honestly believe that the VED keeps the blood vessels clear and open, and stretches that tunica.  Hopefully more people on here will post of their good results with thackers and the VED.

ComeBackid

[hopeful]

HI Rzz..

This is Hopeful,

You did read it wrong- I have not tried it yet- I am trying to find out if anyone has had any success-

Please let me know- I am not taking any drugs at all!- WHat is the particular enzyme in the vinegar?- How long should you take it?-

Thanks,

Hopeful

Hopeful,

I'm not sure I'm reading your post correctly. It seems as if you may be saying you are mixing other drugs with DMSO and using that. If this is what you are doing, I STRONGLY urge you to STOP. One of the major factors of pharmaceuticals is the way they are introduced to the system.   

[ComeBacKid]

Soxfan,

Thanks for adding your experience with thackers, i have heard of your good results, but I wanted everyone else to.

Tim,

The ved is effective, I can state for a fact that it had increased my flaccid size, mainly in length, it took daily usage for about 3 months until I saw results.  I should also state I hold each erection for about 30 seconds to a minute.  I do about 10-15 reps.  My erections are very full as well now and my penis appears thicker when erect.  I honestly believe that the VED keeps the blood vessels clear and open, and stretches that tunica.  Hopefully more people on here will post of their good results with thackers and the VED.

ComeBackid

[Hawk]

Tim,

This should probably go under Urologists and other Doctors but you know, I would be happy to hear a doctor say, "I just don't know because unfortunately we have no data to support or refute the efficacy of such a treatment.  What kills me, is that because they do not know if a thing works the vast majority scoff.  Often they flatly say, "there is nothing to it", which is what a scoff says anyway.  This implies that they know all things and if they have no knowledge of it just cannot be.  I agree that we need objective evidence but what kills me is that many of the treatments they promote have little such evidence or even some evidence of harm.  Somehow that is OK.  Who can resolve such a contradiction?

My cancer surgeon is world renown.  He developed the laparoscopic prostatectomy technique in France and was recruited to Memorial Slone-Kettering in Manhatten.  Every urological surgeon in the world knows this man's name. I love this guy because during our 90 minute conversation which I finally ended,  I asked him if there was anything I could do nutritionally to increase my chance of beating my prostate cancer.  I specifically mentioned a few studies.  He shrugged his shoulders in sincere uncertainty and said, "I can't say.  What do I know, I am only a surgeon."  While one could argue that he should have some resources to refer patients to, you have to admire the common down-to-earth honesty and humility.  He stands out, not for knowing everything he should know, but for just admitting his limited knowledge.

The shame is, that this is remarkable.

[Tim468]

>>PS: Let the doctors continue to SCOFF at the ved and Thacker formula. Sadly. most md's can't get beyond the notion of drugging/operating to solve all medical conditions.<<

When you say this, but also admit that you are using the pentox, arginine, viagra combination AND the VED AND Thacker's formula, would that not be also considered "drugging?".

If I also had a knife, and knew how to wield it, I would add that to my arsenal of tools.

In the end, doctors are people who have tools and try to use them. It is a fact that not many of the tools work that well, or we would all be using the same tools. We do what we know. What is sad is how little doctors know about something they should know a LOT about.

Tim

[soxfan]

I think hopeful was quoting me when I was posting to Rico.  He then posed a question about dmso to rico.   

Rzz,  Have you tried thackers ?  Any luck with it if so?  Soxfan has told me hes seen results from it, perhaps he could add his experience here.  When I brought up DMSO and thackers to my urologist, he basically scoffed at me and made a joke of it.

ComeBackid

ComeBackid/All,

I can state with 100% certainty that the Thacker formula does indeed help to soften plaque/scar tissue. You do have to use it consistently, I have done so for almost a year and I also use the ved( osbon esteem model) and the p.a.v cocktail. I have regained almost all of my lost length and I am sure that with continued treatment I will completely resolve my peyronies.

PS: Let the doctors continue to SCOFF at the ved and Thacker formula. Sadly. most md's can't get beyond the notion of drugging/operating to solve all medical conditions.

Cheers.

[ComeBacKid]

I think hopeful was quoting me when I was posting to Rico.  He then posed a question about dmso to rico.   

Rzz,  Have you tried thackers ?  Any luck with it if so?  Soxfan has told me hes seen results from it, perhaps he could add his experience here.  When I brought up DMSO and thackers to my urologist, he basically scoffed at me and made a joke of it.

ComeBackid

[Rzz]

Hopeful,

I'm not sure I'm reading your post correctly. It seems as if you may be saying you are mixing other drugs with DMSO and using that. If this is what you are doing, I STRONGLY urge you to STOP. One of the major factors of pharmaceuticals is the way they are introduced to the system.   

The formula one sees on this forum does not have drugs. The formula consist of castor oil, vinegar and DMSO. The Castor Oil works as a base, the vinegar works as an enzyme and the DMSO works as a carrier. None are harmful to the system.

The reason you did not get any burning sensation could be two-fold.
1) Although at first most do get a a burning sensation, not all do. Most people believe the burning sensation is caused by the DMSO, but it is not. It is caused by the vinegar working as an ennzyme. When the burning sensation occurrs, the person should stop the treatment until the redness is completly gone, then try again. If the burning continues, you may have to decrease the amount of vinegar being used. 
2) You may not have had a burning sensation because has you stated in your post, you only applied the formula for 2 hours. That is certainly why your breath or body did not give off an odor. It takes longer than 2 hours of application.

I'm not encouraging you or anyone else for that matter to try the formula. I'm just passing on what knowledge I've gained from the many, many hours I researched this topic. Good luck to you friend.

[hopeful]

Percival

Have you tried the DMSO??-If so what did you do?-Any progress???
Hopeful

[hopeful]

Rico.. Has anything worked..   DMSO looks like it could have some positive effects,

HOPEFUL..

Rico,

I tried the thackers formula once for about two hours, I did a wrap, I did not have any garlic breath or any side effects, no skin irritation or pain, I discontinued use because I'm not totally sure its safe, and I'm working with other drugs and the VEd, that DMSO may carry into the blood stream and have a weird reaction with the other drugs I'm on. 

[percival]

There are publications which show that DMSO is effective on the scleroderma type of scar tissue:
http://www.dmso.org/articles/scleroderma/sclero3.htm

and:

Collagen and Scleroderma

Scleroderma is a rare, disabling, and sometimes fatal disease, resulting form an abnormal buildup of collagen in the body. The body swells, the skin--particularly on hands and face--becomes dense and leathery, and calcium deposits in joints cause difficulty of movement. Fatigue and difficulty in breathing may ensue. Amputation of affected digits may be necessary. The cause of scleroderma is unknown, and, until DMSO arrived, there was no known effective treatment.

Arthur Scherbel, MD, of the department of rheumatic diseases and pathology at the Cleveland Clinic Foundation, conducted a study using DMSO with 42 scleroderma patients who had already exhausted all other possible therapies without relief. Dr. Scherbel and his coworkers concluded 26 of the 42 showed good or excellent improvement. Histotoxic changes were observed together with healing of ischemic ulcers on fingertips, relief from pain and stiffness, and an increase in strength. The investigators noted, "It should be emphasized that these have never been observed with any other mode of therapy."10 Researchers in other studies have since come to similar conclusions.11

Percival

[ComeBacKid]

Has anyone on this forum used thackers formula and seen an improvment of any kind in their peyronies disease?  I have yet to hear from one person on this forum thats reported a success.  I have heard from Barry of success stories however.

[ComeBacKid]

Rico,

I tried the thackers formula once for about two hours, I did a wrap, I did not have any garlic breath or any side effects, no skin irritation or pain, I discontinued use because I'm not totally sure its safe, and I'm working with other drugs and the VEd, that DMSO may carry into the blood stream and have a weird reaction with the other drugs I'm on. 

[Rico]

Dear forum members and guest...

I have been using the thacker formula for about six weeks now....I had to take a week off in the beginning when I had some skin irritation...

I notice when I would do it in the beginning my unit would always react, maybe like it was a little shock from the mixture...using the thacker(dmso/acv/castor oil) and I was using more, I put mine on with a eye dropper right on the plaque, like a slow drip, I do this for one to two hours, the most I use is a tablespoon of mixture.... well after four or five days of doing this, my erections start to become non existence and it is hard to stimulate myself....

Now I have been watching this, if I take one or two days off, they pop back....so there is something going on with the thacker....my plaque fills softer and was on the top of septum in one piece, now the middle of it is separated in two pieces, I don't know if it spilt when I started to use VED....I had been conditioning it for six weeks with the thacker to help stretch it....

I took off last night and did a Epsom salt bath instead of thacker, just cause I was concern of my unit not responding(I have been under stress also), but even though I had been under stress, I had notice this before with dmso after about a week....well sure enough I woke up with good wood this morning...so I'm going to go back on the thacker tonight....I think this is positive to me....especially the plaque getting thinner on top of the septum...

I move to the b cylinder on Sunday...my hour glass hasn't improve at all and it is my real problem, this is causing my lost of length, yes lost of length....I believe when you pull it intogether this shrinks your unit...so gain of girth equals legnth....

Anyway any one out there soaking there unit in pickle juice, speak up.....

p.s. I just wanted to add  that my unit became use to the thacker, it no longer gets a rash...I put msm cream on it when not using the thacker, it is soothing to the skin...I also use several other oils..arinca and caldenula oil...

Rico

[Hawk]

Percival,

I will echo that until you are committed enough to read every word of this thread and the Thacker Formula archive, you should not attempt use of this formula.

While it will not carry bacteria through your skin, it will rapidly transport anything with a molecular weight of less than 1000.  Anything that touches the DMSO, including body parts, cloth, or containers, need to be free of impurities. Wash and then rinse thoroughly to remove soap or fragrances.  It is not unusual to get a taste in your mouth within seconds of getting DMSO on your hands.  It commonly gives an odor to your breath indicating it goes directly into your blood stream and is respirated through the capillaries in the lungs.

[percival]

I have read so much about the Thacker mixture, and I understand that the basic formula is:

Thacker formula, I mix it using 7 teaspoons of 99.9% pure dmso+2 teaspoons of apple cider vinegar+1 teaspoon of castor oil.

However, is the idea to apply this neat or is it supposed to be diluted in water first - if so to what extent?
 
I have read of Rico's trials and he seems to have burnt his 'unit' (a wonderful name for it). As I do not want to duplicate this result - I can imagine having to explain it to the Accident and Emergency department - I would appreciate advice on how to apply the Thacker mixture.
Regards,
Percival

[Hawk]

ComeBackid,

No one is questioning Barry, certainly not me.  But whether Barry relates it first hand or we see a CBS special report on the cases, or read the Thacker threads (which I have read every word of) it does not answer the questions about dermal scars, evidence of DMSO fighting inflammation, non-calcified plaque, or the accuracy of what others reported to Barry.  Believe me, I wish everyone on the forum would try it and report back.  If more than 15% resolved significantly better I would probably give it a try.

I just think anyone using it might as well find another spot of scar tissue on the body, or an active cut or two that they can observe, and do some real experimenting while they are at. Then if someone gets results we could have an active ongoing probing exchange directly with that person.  It will still just be anecdotal evidence, but more interesting.  I clearly expect that if 10 people try it one or two will show some improvement worth mentioning.  That would be expected.  If 3 or 4 show such improvement then is getting interesting.  If 3 or 4 get improvement out of 30 then that is zero improvement because that is on par with "spontaneous improvement.

[ComeBacKid]

I think at this point we seem to have hit a stalemate, Rico you have made some excellent points, Liam and Hawk have challenged the idea of how and why thackers will work, nothing wrong with this either. 

At this point, I think it would be appropriate for Barry to enter the discussion and tell us his stories and how many people he communicated with that said thackers helped them, I think we can all trust Barry(at least I can) as he has been a peyronies advocate for years and a friend of the forum/administrator.  Old Wise man where are you?  Perhaps SoxFan telling us his story might help to convince some of the people, as far as a study we won't get one, won't happen. 

Safety should be the prime concern for all treatments, besides if they will work or not.  I would also like to see more information on safety in regards to DMSO, but for now I think I willl continue using it.

ComeBackid

[Liam]

Why would Thacker's Formula only "attack" plaque and not damage other surrounding cells?  Will long term use completely destroy the functionality of you penis?  If you were betting on this, what would be the odds?  Is it worth the risk?

BTW, I apologize if anyone thinks I'm attacking a person or persons.  I am challenging an idea in an effort to encourage critical thinking.  My tone was and is one I would use with my brothers (as y'all are).

I was taking DHEA until Hawk challenge me to critical thinking.  I am off of it now.  Thank you to Hawk.

Liam


Thacker's spellchecks as Thwacker's  ......hmmmmm.......

[ComeBacKid]

I just want to say to everyone who can point out there is no scientific evidence this can work or to be shown it will work.... I know this.  But for most of the treatments on this forum we have ABSOLUTELY no scientific evidence.  Look to the VED's for example, no studies at all(supposedly there is one out there but not public), and yet I've talked to 5 people who have seen results from the VED. 

Barry has stated to me that MANY people have seen results from thackers formula, I take him at his word and believe him, and yes this is NOT scientific, since the medical community is not doing much in the way of studies we have to try our own.  From what I've read I have no reason to believe DMSO is dangerous at all what so ever, obviously try everything at your own risk.  My theory is to try every single thing possible to throw at this crap.  I think it is good to be a skeptic and throw and have critical thinkign I do this myself, I was more referring to the jokes, perhaps my definition of a critic and skeptic is confused, critic is the wrong word for what I wanted to say, I meant more in the way of hecklers. 

I trust MOST of the people on this forum, for soxfan to tell me thackers softened his plaque and Barry to tell me it has worked on many people I'll take that as the closest thing to scientific we will get on this topic. 

[Tim468]

I think it counts for a great deal to have people who we trust to be honest (like Barry) to say "I used it and I got better". But that is not, as you have mentioned ComeBackid, the scientific method. We are not doing science here, either. we are experimenting, but it is to see if we can make empirical connections (IOW, connections not proven but implid by a connection )(ie not just cause and effect).

In fact, a bunch of positive reports is still not science. What if the guys who responded to ionto of verapamil happened to be posting here and said - "this really worked for me!" Well, it would be inspiring - and we would try it.

The action of DMSO to enter into cells is well known. The action of it "breaking up scar" is not known, and not even close to being proven. The logic behind acidic environments helping, or oil helping is all conjectural.

Yet, someone thought it up and it seems to have helped someone. So... the question is it more than would be healed by a placebo?

Well, I would take a placebo if I thought it would work. God knows I have taken a lot of crap.

So I will be interested to see what helps or does not.

Tim

[Hawk]

I don't mind the skeptics and constructive thinking and exchanging ideas, but lets all try to stay away from being CRITICS, we are all in this together.

Critic -1. "on who forms and expresses judgements based on the merits of a matter" 3."one who makes harsh carping judgements"

I am not sure I understand the the difference between the primary definition of a critic and a skeptic, especially when we encourage "critical thinking".  I think we need both.  The attack of a concept with evidence is always good.  The attack on an individual sidetracks the argument and has no place.  Again, in this case I use the term argument to mean "a course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth".  We have had no personal attacks and certainly no "harsh carping judgements".

Now, on to my critical, skeptical view of DMSO.  Which I have used extensively in veterinary applications on birds of prey.

There is no doubt that DMSO will transport substances within the limit of specific molecular weight into tissue.  It is an easily reproduced demonstration.  There is no doubt in my mind that people have used DMSO and improved.  There is doubt in my mind whether DMSO played a role, or if vinegar played a role, the combination, or neither. 

In order to work, DMSO would have to do the following.  Transport a agent that reduces scar tissue past a network of capillaries that would uptake the substances and yet not penetrate beyond the target.  I think we have little other except anecdotal accounts that it can reduce scar tissue or give the targeted delivery needed.

Alternatively, DMSO could reduce inflammation in acute Peyronies Disease.  Or stimulate blood flow that actually helps healing.  I would be interested in how it help heal 2 cuts on a hand, one treated and one not treated.

Many men with Peyronies Disease never have calcified plaque.  I seem to see a line of thought among some that market products and some of us hoping for a really good treatment that goes something like: "A certain drug or concoction really is known to reduce the plaque or scar tissue in the underlying tissue."  Yet no one ever seems to claim these products can eradicate even the tiniest dermal scar much less a keloid that we can easily apply products directly to, then watch, and measure the results.  Sophisticated research has been undertaken to reduce scaring in burn victims, keloids, and surgical adhesions.  It is clear that many things help, but very few of these are included in the list that we use.  I think it is a stretch (I should be PUNished) to think these things only work where we can't see, but would not effect other scar tissue open for examination.

[ComeBacKid]

I like Liam often times found myself thinking, is this someones idea of a cruel joke? 

I don't believe so, Barry has told me that he talked to thacker himself and has talked to many people that this has worked for.  I first found out about this thackers on the old BTC jungle forum.  I believe barry and take him at his word.  I did a little research and it does show what Rico has been telling us that DMSO can dissolve or soften old scar tissue.  I've often wondered as Tim has stated, could DMSO carry verapamil or decadron into the plaque or scar tissue itself? 

I wanted to make two more points, one is I've been in touch with soxfan who is seeing results from the VED and using thackers, which he claims has helped to soften his plaque, besides this I was in touch with a man named Nick Foxx off the old BTC, he is registered here but does not post, he used MSM pills for awhile and saw good results and straightening.

Any scientific evidence on this stuff...no of course not, any scientific evidence on the VED's... I have yet to see it, but we now have about 5 people reporting results.  For most of this stuff there is no scientific evidence, thats just the way it is, I think Rico has made enough of a tie with DMSO's ability to dissolve scar tissue and go deep through cell membrames to show it could work, this is all I need to try it.  I don't mind the skeptics and constructive thinking and exchanging ideas, but lets all try to stay away from being CRITICS, we are all in this together.

ComeBackid

[Liam]

I shall summarize my thoughts of the application of DMSO, Cider vinegar and Castor oil:

to a Pig's ear - good

to a penis     - bad

On the gulf coast we use Adolph's meat tenderizer for jelly fish stings.  So, it has a medical purpose.  "Meat" tenderizer (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)....hmmmm.  Maybe a good addition to Thackers formula.  After all it tenderizes meat.  And, it will draw the inflammation out like it draws the poison from a jelly fish sting.

Sometimes an analogy may be misleading.  Sometimes not.  Thats why scientific investigation and then scientific testing is done.

Liam

[percival]

Liam
I too have some doubts about the Thacker formula, but there is a bit of logic in it:
I should think that the vinegar is there with the intention of dissolving the calcium out of the plaque. Can't say why cider vinegar is used, 8% acetic acid would probably work as well, unless there are some minor components present in cider which are important.
The inclusion of castor oil sounds like a treatment they use to soften leather. During the tanning process, the natural oils get extracted and the leather becomes stiff. This is rectified by 'fat-liquoring' in which a natural oil such as castor oil is emulsified (often sulphated castor oil is used) in water and the leather is churned in it. This results in supple leather. Whale oil used to be used and it produced very fine leathers for gloves. High quality gloving leather has to have good stretchability to 'fit like a glove' so I think that this may be the idea behind the Thacker formula - using a natural oil to soften the leathery plaque.
As for DMSO - it is well known for permeating the skin and presumably will carry the vinegar and castor to the plaque.

Maybe it would be worth carrying out an experiment with say, a section of pig's ear to see if the Thacker formula softened it.

How in the world could any of these ingredients (chemicals) help Peyronies Disease?  What is the mechanism?   The whole idea sounds like a cruel joke, mix salad dressing (oil and vinegar) with an industrial solvent.  Then tape it to your penis.

I am as bad as anyone about trying potential "fixes" for Peyronies Disease.  But, guys......

Now, if anyone can give me a plausible, scientific reason this would work, I'll be happy to have crow fricassee for dinner[/color]

Crow sounds leathery!

Percival

[ComeBacKid]

It was Barry who original told me all about thackers, he told me it will work and has talked to a handfull of people who used it and saw results.  Barry is the one who originally talked to this infamous "thacker," guy.  I like most on here am a skeptic but willing to give this a try for now.

Rico,

So you simply add in the measured quantities as you stated into a bowl and mix them all up(I don't have an eye dropper), then let the guaze soak for 5 minutes or so?  Then wrap onto the penis and tape it on?

ComeBackid

[Liam]

I use to race greyhounds.  I now rescue them.  The trainer sprayed them down with DMSO after a race to prevent sore muscles.  It seemed to work.

I remember the first time I heard of DMSO.  It was from a man who swore WD40 helped his arthritis.  Just spray it on the joint and it goes through the skin and lubricates the joint.  Now that doesn't speak to the effectiveness of DMSO.  It does show personal accounts of effectiveness should be taken with a grain of (Epsom) salt 

[Tim468]

DMSO has some data collected over the years that shows that it is generally safe, and that it can be of help in relieving pain in arthritis. Most other claims are not well studied, except for cystitis pain; DMSO can be injected into the bladder to help with that.

MSM is a breakdown product of DMSO, but is not as well studied. it may have many of the same effects, though these effects are generally assumed, but not proven. A good review of this matter is found at:

http://www.arthritis.org/resources/arthritistoday/1999_archives/1999_11_12explorations.asp

All of the reviews I read pointed out that the DMSO available in health food stores is NOT medical grade DMSO - even the 99% pure DMSO, which is still industrial and not medical grade. I believe this has to do with manufacturing standards and the potential for impurities to be in the  solution.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/OTA/ota05.html

This has a good discussion of this matter.

I think DMSO is of unproven benefit for Peyronies Disease, though it has potential. I am VERY suspicious of a formula that is secret and which refuses to show any data (the mysterious Thacker formula). All the Thacker thread claims strike me as bogus, in that the posters are not open as to who they are, they do not apear willing to share their "secrets" - and other signs of fakery I have seen before. This is just my opinion.

Tim

ps - I have worked a lot with DMSO, and it gets across cell membranes fast. A drop on the finger will be tasted in the mouth in about 15 seconds (absorbtion and blood flow time). It can carry small molecules across tissue planes which makes me think it could be used to move drugs into the tunica easily (ie verapamil or soulbilized Pentox - get it right to the problem.

Tim

[mark501]

Liam, Many thanks for your post on DMSO.  The following is on the label of  one of the most popular DMSO gel preparations sold on the internet at 99.9% pure. "Caution; may cause skin irritation. Avoid contact with eyes, skin & clothing. In case of eye contact immediately flush eyes with water. Call a physician.  Sold as a solvent only. This product is intented for use as a solvent only. The choice of the process  used in the various applications is the sole responsibility of the user. It is unlawful to represent in any way that this product is useful or safe to use for medicinal purposes. Keep out of the reach of children. This product is sold on many websites right along with vitamins and beauty creams ,the implication being that this product is in the general category of  food supplements & cosmetics. How much more explicit does a label warning have to be? Think! 

[Liam]

How in the world could any of these ingredients (chemicals) help Peyronies Disease?  What is the mechanism?   The whole idea sounds like a cruel joke, mix salad dressing (oil and vinegar) with an industrial solvent.  Then tape it to your penis.

I am as bad as anyone about trying potential "fixes" for Peyronies Disease.  But, guys......

Now, if anyone can give me a plausible, scientific reason this would work, I'll be happy to have crow fricassee for dinner.

[ComeBacKid]

I've purchased the DMSO, apple cider vinegar, and finally the castor oil which is apparently for upset stomachs or something of that nature.  I got gauze and some medical tape to tape the gauze, now I just was looking for exact instructions on how to mix it.  Can one use the same needle and draw out the quantities and put them in a  bowl?  Then simple soak the gauze for ten minutes and take it out and wrap around the penis?  How much in mL of each liquid should be placed in the bowl for mixing, and how should one mix exactly?  Anyone using this with some comments and more specific instructions feel free to post them or PM me.

ComeBackid

[Rico]

I'm no expert, but what I read you want the 99.9% dmso. Thacker also has the apple cider vinegar. Now I have only started this treatment, three days now, so I can't comment on how it is working, just what I have read. Be careful with dmso, it is very powerful, don't have around kids ect...don't get in your eyes ect...Please read up on this before you start, if you choose to...God Bless you and I will pray for you..remember the Sun Also Rises:)..

Rico

[myrddin]

I'm considering trying DMSO, but has anyone tried using the DMSO creams or gels that are available?  For instance the selection at the bottom of the page here? Also note I know nothing about this site and am not trying to promote it or anything, I just saw it from a Google search and it seemed to be an easier and more pleasant way to administer than mixing up a batch of Thacker's.

If any of you have experience with these let me know.

[ComeBacKid]

Rico,

Interesting, I had alwasy wondered if there was something out there that could be used instead of verapamil or decadron with ionotpohoresis, to drive it into the plaque and dissolve it. 

ComeBackid

[Rico]

Tim,

Thanks. Please google Iontophoresis rehab/management

I found this interesting. I started the thacker formula because I have a culinary background and I believe in vinergar, I have seen what it can do to fish and many other things, eggs ect...keeping the flesh in tacked while killing everything else, bacteria ect...apple cider caught my eye because it is 6%(organic) acetic acid. I believe the dmso is the driver like Iontophoresis and the cator oil gives it a base to stay on the area being treated and also keeps the skin soft from blistering and the acetic acid in the apple cider breaks up the scar tissue.

I started to google acetic acid and found this site, it says with iontophoresis to break up calcified tissue, you should use acetic acid 2-5 %.

I just finished my second treatment tonight. My cost for a month I think will be under 30 dollars.

It also talked about sski, which I have looked at, but felt more comfortable with the apple cider(acetic acid), the dmso 99.9% I have found no real off ordor or blistering.

If I could get my dick in a jar, I would pickle it:). A apple a day, will keep the pecker checker away:).....

Rico

[Tim468]

Good work Rico - I hope it helps.

Tim

[Rico]

I would like to talk to anyone using this formula, dmso/avc/Castor oil.

I started it last night, I spent about 25 dollars on all my supplies. This should last me about a month.

I bought 99.9% dmso(I really didn't notice a smell or burning) and organic apple cider vinegar and Castor oil.

My plaque is on the top of penis shaft, 1/2 inch up from base, dead center. I live alone also so I haven't done a wrap. I also broke down the formula to make it easy to mix. I bought two eye droppers also, the formula is 70%dmso and 20% acv and 10% Castor oil....this is for large batch one tablespoon dmso, one tsp avc and 1/2 tsp Castor oil, for a small batch, you can use 1 1/2 tsp dmso, 1/2 tsp avc and 1/4 tsp Castor oil, I sit my swallow clean glass in a pan of hot water on the stove, get it nice and warm(you don't cook the mix, just have it warm, I find that just heating the glass works) then I take out glass, wash my hands with soap and water and then add my dmso, apple cider vinegar and then Castor oil and mix it up with the eye dropper, I sit on a towel and watch tv and apply the cream, it I massage it in with the side of the eye dropper, I did this last night for about one hour. When it becomes absorb, I put more on till gone, I then take a bath or hot shower and massage the area, when done I cover the whole thing with arnica oil Caledonia oil(sp), I bought this at the store I found.

I stayed away from doing this for the last couple of months(have had peyronies now for four months), because of the bad experience I had with dmso about 25 years ago, nasty, I can still taste it. I bought it black market then for a sport injury, it was cheap grade and made my skin blister. This 99.9, I notice no bad taste or smell. I going to take epsom salt baths and massage the area longer when I can on the weekends and more treatment also. I have broke of scar tissue before in my body, deep tissue massage, I don't want to do it as rough(cause more damage), but I do believe it is good to gently massage the area to keep it supple.

I'm getting ready to start VED when the new Soma Correct comes out, and I'm trying to condition my plaque, softer ect....

I posted this for anyone interested in a easy way of breaking down the formula. If you plaque is on the side of penis you can add a little more Castor oil to give it more body for a easier massage application.

I have enough product for a month, then will see what I think, anyone else out there trying this, like to here from you, or anyones thoughts are welcome....Take care and God Bless...

Rico

[ComeBacKid]

Yet another person who used TV with no results... what a surprise.

ComeBackid

[hopeful]

Hello To The Left- I am thinking of trying this- how did this work for you-?-any improvement- how long have yo9u had Peyronies Disease- and how bad?

Hopeful

hello all, hope everyone had a good holiday...

I have been using Thackers formula, for the past three weeks plus I started using primrose oil massage on my plaque after I have taken off the thackers dressing for the past week. Can anyone tell me , how long after using the thackers formula that they started seeing a reduction in the curve. On top of all this I am also using daily Gamma Vit E, Vitalzym, and acetl L carnitine /lipoic acid combo. It has been 11 months since my first symptoms and still no results except for the reduction in pain. By the way also used topical verapamil for six months which only resulted with less money in my pocket.........................my best to evryone ........totheleft