VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices

[newguy]

Overcomer - I typed a post in the Oral treatment thread that may be of use should your urologist refuse to give you pentox. As for the VED, I think it's a viable treatment for almost all peyronie's sufferers and the earlier people explore it as an option the better. People knock the VED, and admittedly it's not for everyone, but there are those here with good results from it, so it' certainly something worth giving a go. If it benefits you then you can stick with it for good, and if you come to the conclusion that it isn't of use (after one of two cycles of the program) then you can re-evaluate at that time. The only people I'd be in two minds about suggesting it to as those with pain.

[Overcomer]

do you guys reccomend the ved for me? i have a curve to the left like a bannana and also noticed i have some waistin on the top of my penis. i've got a bit of a blood flow problem too but i suspect it's because i have low testosterone. i recently discovered that after going to my urologist. he had me do a dopplar ultrasound and saw the blood flow was not up to par and told me it was probably due to the low t. i'm going to see if i can score some pentox from him next time i see him also. wondering if the ved can help with these problems? i have plenty of time...

[ComeBacKid]

Cowboy,

When i was just on pentox my flaccid hang got bigger just by observation and erections were bigger and fuller by observation.  I don't know if this is cause pentox thins the blood and allows it to "fit" into the penis better and get to all the knooks and crannies and fill up or what?

I pumped last night with the VED, initially after getting done my penis looked pumped and good, then shrank up somewhat.  Today I got an erection and it was full and solid like the pumping last night seemed to help it.  One thing is for sure this disease seems unpredictable and the formations the damaged tissue can take are endless. Sometimes my penis feels soft all over and normal with a floppy flaccid hang like you should have.  Then other times its hard and shrunken up tight and hard and small.  Obviously the tissue can change, flex, expand, this is good as it can most likely be stretched as we've seen, and hopefully someday repaired for good!

Comebackid

[cowboyfood]

CBK,

I may have notice the effect you are describing.  And, since I began using the VED, pentox, daily Viagra and supplements, I have noticed that overall my flaccid "hang" is generally larger, and sometimes substantially larger.

CF

[ComeBacKid]

Has anyone noticed like I do, that just after using the VED their penis looks pumped and full, but about 15 mintues later it seems shrunken again and smaller then usual.  Then after taking a shower and cleaning off all the lube and whats left from pumping they are hanging well, and their next erection usually an hour or two later is full and pumped?  It seems like in my case the tissue is stretched and then responds by trying to contract, but ultimately leads to better and fuller erections.  I wonder if the damaged tissue's natural response is to contract initially?

Comebackid

[jackp]

Chris

I just sent you a message on the implant thread. I know you are new and there is no need to double post.

Jackp

[Old Man]

skunksworks:

Most all of the medical quality VEDs have a quick release valve. It is highly recommended that you purchase one with medical quality. I do not recommend buying one without a quick release valve as it would be dangerous not to be able to quickly release the vacuum.

Old Man

[skunkworks]

Thanks for all the detailed answers Angus, JackP and Old Man.

Ok so it seems then that it would probably be more useful to have a quick release switch on the pump, than a pressure gauge, as we are not staying at any pressure for any real amount of time. Which explains why the VED device Old Man recommends does not have a gauge.

Great to hear that one could get the pumping out of the way in 15 min or less, that makes VED even more attractive as a treatment than traction.

[Old Man]

skunkworks:

No, it is highly NOT recommended to "wear" the VED for extended periods of time. As Angus explained, reasonable pressures for a reasonable period of time will be OK. Extended periods of time with higher pressures can and will cause edema of the skin, damage to the glans and possibly other trauma. You do not need to use very long periods of VED therapy nor at higher pressures.

Pumping up just to see how "big" you can get your penis is very dangerous for the reasons stated above. So, use caution and approach the VED therapy as a long term procedure and you will reap much better benefits from it.

A gauge on the the VED could be a guide for those who deem it necessary. However, your body is a much better gauge of the amount of vacuum you can comfortably stand without causing any trauma. So practice with varying amounts of pressure to determine your comfort level. More repetitions with a moderate amount of vacuum will produce a better result than those of a higher amount, etc. So, use caution in the VED therapy and you will see better results. Again, there is not set amount of pressure one should use, let your body be the guide to that.

Let us know if you have further questions.

Old Man

[jackp]

skunkworks

My experience with pumping up and holding for long period of times was I hurt myself.  It caused a bruise that took some time to go away.  That was before I found this forum and Old Man.  My advise is do not do it.

I had a single cylinder prescription model VED and the instructions were not very good.  I thought if I pumped up as much as I could stand it and hold it a long time would get faster results. How wrong I was.

I have posted the single cylinder VED use that Old Man gave to me. It helped me get to where I am today with a much better than expected outcome with my implant. 

I used the exercise for about a year. I learned the hard way that short cycles at a mild vaccum works best. A 15 minute session daily worked for me.

Jackp

[skunkworks]

That answer was perfect. Answered questions I didn't even know to ask yet. Much appreciated.

The one query would be how does one gauge if you have too much/too little vacuum going on. I have bought a cheaper Aus version, till I can afford the recommended pump on here. It has a pressure gauge. Oddly the Vitality (recommended model) does not seem to.

Is there a  set psi I should be working at?

Also, what about not cycling at all, just wearing it for half an hour or so?

[Angus]

...Does this mean total treatment time for the day is just a few minutes?

10 cycles at 10 - 15 seconds per cycle does not add up to much time...

I expected to wear it for an extended period, like the traction device...

    Yes, that's not much time. When I was active with the protocol I personally did the cycles for 15 to 20 minutes, sometimes a few more. This is where a guy has to pay attention with this. 15+ minutes at a medium-mild vacuum will do no harm. This is way more than ten cycles, but at a reasonably mild vacuum (enough to be erect, but not enough to cause redness, pinching, and uncomfortable sensations), there will be no harm done or damage. Many questions have been asked by guys about damage from a VED being used. The bottom line is NO, there is no harm in more than ten cycles, but you must get to know your body and STOP when your body tells you. Stop if you see edema (swelling of the penile skin being engorged with fluids), redness or pinching of skin at the end of the tube next to your body. This means too much vacuum or too many cycles or BOTH. Describing this on a forum is difficult as we don't do pictures and videos of the proper technique and so forth, but I can safely say this: Do more than ten cycles if you wish but at just enough vacuum to get an erection and no more. Now, if you try to push this out to an hour long VED session you WILL get skin swelling, redness and uncomfortable sensations. That is too much and your body will tell you right away when enough is enough. Do not be tempted to pump vacuum that few "extra" times to how big you can get. It hurts and does no good for anything. You will also get redness, swelling and tenderness with attempted marathon sessions. The VED is based on reasonable length sessions used with consistency every day. But hours long sessions like with traction are out. I know I typed a lot more than what addresses your question, but I felt I had to throw those additional things in so new readers would get more of a total picture if they are following this thread.

[skunkworks]

I just read the protocol for treatment on here, and it states:

Each cycle consists of the following steps: (1) Create negative pressure around the penis, (2) engorge the penis inside the cylinder and hold an erection for 5 to 10 seconds, (3) release the negative pressure in the cylinder. The penis should have a firm, almost tight fit in the small cylinder with the penis actually touching the sides of the cylinder. The medium cylinder may have air space between the penis and the cylinder, and the penis should not be confined by the sides of the cylinder at all inside the large cylinder, depending on your size. NOTE: Each daily routine consists of doing these three steps for 10 consecutive cycles

Does this mean total treatment time for the day is just a few minutes?

10 cycles at 10 - 15 seconds per cycle does not add up to much time...

I expected to wear it for an extended period, like the traction device.

[jackp]

Iceman

What Old Man said is 1000% true in my case. 

In my case if I had not had the VED exercise I would not have had the outcome I had.

One of the side effects of peyronies is penile shrinkage.  The best way to combat that is daily VED exercise. I wish I had known about it in 1995.

The daily exercise of the corpora's keeps the blood flow going and that helps keep your penis healthy.

Jackp

[Old Man]

Iceman:

Yes, daily use of the VED can and will help with keeping your penis more healthy. Comebackid has listed his success with VED usage in his post. Even if the therapy does nothing for the plaque/nodules or does not straighten your curves, the constant daily stretching will keep a good blood flow into and out of the penile erectile chambers. This will keep them open, more healthy and also help with erectile dysfunction if you have that problem. Using the restrictor rings with the VED can and will provide one of the best erection you ever had.

I still use my VED three or four time a week just for maintenance of what was gained by the year or so use of the VED early on in Peyronies Disease. The VED was prescribed for me in 1995 after a radical prostatectomy which left me impotent due to non nerve sparing surgery. The VED has given me great success in the ED as well as the Peyronies Disease problem.

Strongly urge you to keep on using the VED despite you not currently seeing any results per se.

Old Man

[ComeBacKid]

If you have a "cast" around your penis like I do of fibrosis, it seems like stretching it with the VED seems to help.  It did nothing for my curvature, even seemed to make it worse, but it did help me regain size and hang better.  I'm getting ready to go on another six month treatment plan with it.  I think personally my plaque just will not budge, it seems hard to remodel, this is where xiaflex or a drug like it might help the VEd process if it can soften the plaque...  Dr. Levine had this theory when he advocated verapamil injections with the VED, but I still have yet to see one study that shows verapamil helps peyronies at all...

Comebackid

[Iceman]

OLDMAN - if the VED is not straightening things out and I have to be realistic about VED usage then is there an advantage to keep using the VED - I mean how will it benefit me if i use it every day

[newguy]

OldMan - Oops, I apologise for the sexism . Yes, it will be great if we eventually do hear back from her.

[Old Man]

newguy:

I have tried many times to get in touch with Chris Spivey who is connected with the urology group in Birmingham, AL. To date, have had no response from that group.

BTW, FYI Chris is a lady and not a man. She is in charge of the trials for the three cylinder model VEDs along with some other treatments that are supposed to enchance the VED, etc.

If and when she ever answers my emails and refused calls, I will report any information gained.

Regards, Old Man

[newguy]

Has anybody here ever had direct contact with Chris Spuvey (Spivey Protocol)? He could perhaps provide additional insights beyond his existing statements.

[newguy]

bertie - As Hawk says, there's no official VED that is recommended, so you'll get a few different answers from people, and some people even made their own. The VED I bought a while back is from Boston Pump. I can't really complain about the pump and cylinders other than to say that it took ages to arrive. A month or so. It's probably not a bad choice tho.

[Hawk]

As an organization we do not endorse products.  There are a couple issue:

Cost
Quality/durability
single Vs multiple cylinder

Outside of these, a vacuum is a vacuum.  You can buy a 3 cylinder type of easily make one.

[bertie67]

I am willing to try the VED. Does the Peyronies Disease Society recommend any particular product? Can they be purchased here in the UK? Is there any website where one can purchase a VED suitable for Peyronies Disease? I am new to all this.

[Iceman]

ive got a new name for VED its called the PERI PUMP...i tell my girlfriend that im just peri pumping ---- sounds more friendly..

[skunkworks]

Oh I'm sold on VED, I just have to figure out what device/where etc. Being in Aus I may not have the same purchase options, and my local hardware store did not have that kind of pump as listed below.

What name would be used for the pump part itself in a hardware store? I was going to buy the pump cheaply and get the tubs from somewhere reputable.

[Old Man]

skunkworks:

No, not total reversal, but enough that I see no visible symptoms. There is only a very small indentation on the left of the shaft where the largest plaque and indentation were during the several bouts of Peyronies Disease over the years.

After the first 6 months, I had no visible signs, continued on for another 6 months with the VED exercises to be certain that I had given it enough time for the VED to do its job.

I firmly believe that you should continue on with the VED exercises so that you can be certain that VED therapy is not for you. It is known that it does not work for all Peyronies Disease cases, but the percentage of results is very high. I know of no qualified clinical trials that have been published showing the percentage rate of successes with VED therapy. There was a study being performed in a clinic in Birmingham, AL, but to date their report has not been published. That study was done with a three cylinder model VED which is why we on the forum are using that model now. In my case, my therapy was originally done with a one cylinder model, but now I am using a three cylinder one just for maintenance to keep my penis more healthy.

Hope the above helps, and if you have other questions, feel free to ask.

Old Man

[skunkworks]

In my individual case, it took about one year of VED usage to realize the success that happened for me. Today, I have few, if any, signs of Peyronies Disease symptoms. I still use the VED at least three or four times a week for maintenance to keep me healthy down there.

You have seen close to total reversal?

[newguy]

bummedout - Some factors that impact results are likely out of our control (perhaps thickness of plaque - some peoples plaque areas possibly have a greater percentage of semi-normal tissue - just my theory). Still, many factors ARE in your control, and before you can be sure that VED use isn't for you I'd definitely say that it's worth giving it two cycles - so basically a year. As OldMan states many seasoned VED users here had to work at it for several months before they saw results. Even in the worse case scenario where you don't see results, you can at least legitimately say that you really did make sure that it wasn't for you (as opposed to getting disheartened and giving up). Not to mention that it will have kept the penile tissue get a good work out, and maybe even help with erection quality.

[Old Man]

bummedout:

You have not been using the VED therapy long enough to realize large improvement(s). Some of us used the VED for many months before realizing good results. In some cases, the penile plaque, indentations and other symptoms take longer to show any improvement. However, the daily use of the VED can and will help in most cases. At least, the constant daily stretching of the penile tissue will give you a much more health penis.

In my individual case, it took about one year of VED usage to realize the success that happened for me. Today, I have few, if any, signs of Peyronies Disease symptoms. I still use the VED at least three or four times a week for maintenance to keep me healthy down there.

You should try to have enough patience to stay with the VED protocol through the entire 26 week course. You might need to do another 26 week course to reap the full benefit of VED therapy.

Good luck to you and keep up the schedule.

Old Man

[bummedout]

Ok, so after 2 months now, no improvement.  My plaques are just as hard as they were before I started.  After using it I have a larger flacid penis....whoop!  My goals with the VED were to have a more rigid penis while having an erection and to get rid of the indentations I have, but I still just don't theoretically understand how a VED will do this.  It is also my goal to have this happen while I'm not using the VED.  While or after using the VED I guess maybe it's kinda working, but when I wake up in the morning my erection is not at all rigid where my plaques are indentation are very noticeable.  I get the feeling that the people who have had any kind of success with this, only have success while or after they are using it.  Is this true?  Anyway, I'll keep at it, and I'm going to a "specialist" in a couple weeks.  Maybe he can guide me more.  Until next month........

[Hawk]

I won't have much empirical evidence to start with but will post my findings after I receive the VED and get started.

At least 2 objective measurements:

1. Stretched length with a ruler pressed against the pubic bone
2. degree of bent

also a tiny mark a few days after getting used to the VED.  A mark on the large cylinder wall showing pumped length and finally note girth by the degree you fill one of the 3 cylinders (at the end of a session).  Compare every month.

[BSSS]

well, I took the plunge and ordered the three cylinder VED.  Since I won't see the uro till December I won't have much empirical evidence to start with but will post my findings after I receive the VED and get started.

Thanks,
BSSS

[BSSS]

thanks for the welcome Hawk and moving the post in the right direction!

[Hawk]

BSSS,  Welcome!

I have both a traction device and a single cylinder VED.

If you are not sure you are committed to wearing the traction at least 3 hours a day (not without a break), then I would buy a good VED or make a VED.

If I was committed I would buy the traction device and later make a VED if you want both.  This is one man's opinion and there are probably 40 different opinions.

Hawk


PS: in an instance like yours, either topic would have been good to post in.  I will move this to the VED Board

[BSSS]

don't know where the proper place to post this is, but here goes anyway.

I'm pretty sure I'm a victim of Peyronie's. 

Not a laughing matter I know but am looking for a little direction.

I'm 52, and about 6 months to 8 months ago began to notice a nodule on the top side about midway between the glans and my abdomen.  I told my GP about what was happening, he's usually a good doctor, but didn't bother to look and said it sounded like Peyronie's.  Also referred me to a urologist.  Problem is the uro didn't have an appt available until 12-10. I'll be going then.  Anyway, I'm eager to get started and to try to improve.  It has affected my sex life for sure....never been painful but I do have a really good upward turn.  I've always had some upwardness along with not being too overly endowed, but it's never been a problem.  The last time the missus and I acted on the urge she mentioned it felt different enough to be slightly painful for her.

I'm in the market for either a stretcher or a VED.  I know there are threads for each approach, I've been reading them already.  I just didn't know which thread to post on! 
I looked at the Fastsize site and saw some of the pics of guys wearing the stretcher and the device looked like a torture tool on some of them, but as some state, the VED doesn't stretch as much?

I'm ready to spend my first $200 on a method to try and improve but am certain which way to go.  I don't want to wait till December really, but have read that you should wait for a certain amount of time before therapy?

Really, everything I've read just is pretty confusing and we're already pretty frustrated. Seems this trip could be a lot of trial and error.


Advice anyone?

Thanks!

BSSS

[Old Man]

Toby:

I agree with Hawk on this one. The VED does not pull venous blood into the penile chambers, only arterial blood. However, having gotten the varicose veins back again might indicate that you might have used too much vacuum pressure while pumping. So, be over cautious when using the VED and not overpump the pressure. VED therapy is a case where more is not better, less if anything works best.

Neither have I ever heard of the VED therapy causing varicose veins in any instance.

Old Man

[Hawk]

If you got varicose veins prior to using the VED then I think the recurrence likely had to do with that tendency and not the VED.  I also refute the statement there is more pressure on the veins in the scrotum or on the testicles from a ved unless they repeatedly got pulled into the tube.

Just my guess.  I never heard of another account of varicose veins and VED use.

[Toby]

Hi all. Havent posted in a while. I was wondering if anyone else has had problems with varicose veins developing on the testes after using the ved. I had varicose veins repaired with a varicocle embolization technique about 2 years ago, but after using the ved they came back and now I have them on both testicles. After I use the ved I get a lot of pain on the outside of the right testicle where the varicose veins have developed. Its to the point where I think I may have to stop using the ved but I dont want to because it my only hope. My uro said they probably developed from the added pressures in the area,more blood flow. Any ideas?

[Old Man]

skunkworks:

No, emphatically no, VED usage does not cause any failure to achieve and hold a natural erection. The fact is, with proper usage and over a period of time, VED therapy can and will enhance ones ability to achieve a better natural erection.

In my case, after a radical prostatectomy in 1995 which rendered me completely impotent, a natural erection was out of the questin. After several years of VED therapy, I regained the ability to achieve an erection and with the aid of a restrictor ring to hold it up (have venous leakage) was able to have sex again. I still use the VED on occasion to achieve an erection for sex and just to keep the ability to do so viable. BTW, in one month I will be 80 years!

So, bottom line, proper use of a VED along with patience in using it can and will greatly assist one in achieving natural erections again.

Regards, OM

[j]

I made one and used it for a few months.  I think it helped.  It does require time, and privacy, which caused me to stop for several months, but I recently started using it again.

Skunkworks, the answer to your question is NO, in fact the opposite seemed to be true. 

[Mick]

No.

[skunkworks]

Does using a pump over the long term damage your ability to get a pump unassisted erection?

[Old Man]

learn4life:

Many thanks for those glowing remarks about VED therapy. Wish you well and continuing success in the future with your endeavor to beat this horrible disease/disorder. Just hope that others could realize the success you have had.

Old Man

[learn4life]

Just want to publicly Thank OldMan for all his contribution to the VED treatment.

I dont think i have posted since 2-3yrs ago but I would like to give my experience
on my 2 week La Pump Ved protocol.

1. Way softer plague scars .. to the point the scars have never been this soft before!
2. Harder and longer lasting erections.
3. More Spontaneous erections ...(Just finished 2 1/2 hrs weight and boxing workout.. went to
toilet and got a spontaneous erection after working out extremely intensely.. this has never happened before!)
4. By Far the most effective treatment Ive tried since having Peyronies since
mid teens for venous leakage and ED.
5.Producing girth and length growth .. most likely from the softnening of the
scars to give way for new, more tissue.
6.I had tried a cheap 20 bucks penile pump before but it was terrible ... i guess you get what you pay! ... it made my precum leakage way worse and stopped it immediately. Now with the La pump ved treament it seems to lessen precum leakage and when precum does leak it doesnt effect erection!

Could go on and on of the improvements ... its only been 2 weeks or so and wow ...

I wish i had started OldMans ved treatment 2-3 yrs ago when I first saw his thread but
was worried that it would cost more damage and thought it was expensive.

Sure it cost me over 350usd plus international shipping ... but it has been worth every penny
and more .. would happily pay extra if i knew it would give me this much improvement.


For about 10 yrs ive tried the following :

1. Dr Lins products, viagrowth vip cream
2. 2x a day Vit e/ borage oil massage
3. Thackers DMSO treatment
4. A whole bunch of supplements .. msm, l-arginine, carnitine etc etc too many too list
5. Uv light treatment
6. Cheap penile pump( Must of been 20 bucks ... should have bought one for Peyronies Disease!)

Possibly some more ... and i got to say nothing has compared to the VED treatment, Ved blows
everything else out the park .. wish i had started it years and years ago!

Although if i stay at it and be disciplined not to overpump, stay the course, Im
positive more improvement will definetly occur.

Anyways , just want to Thank OldMan again for his input .. without him
I wouldnt be experiencing this success so I wish you the best in life, OldMan!

All the best to all to getting by Peyronies Disease,

Sincerely,

Learn4life

[Angus]

im back on the VED and have been using it for about 18 months now - can any one here PLEASE let me know of their success with VED usage and give me a bit more motivation to continue its usage as I do need to hear something positive...

http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,466.msg13795.html#msg13795

Stick with it. Don't let Peyronies control or define you.

[jackp]

Iceman

If it were not for the VED and the exercise I would not have had a successful outcome. It helped me gain back length lost to peyronies that started in 1995.

I know it is draining but beside surgery it is the best option. IMHO

Jackp

[Iceman]

im back on the VED and have been using it for about 18 months now - can any one here PLEASE let me know of their success with VED usage and give me a bit more motivation to continue its usage as I do need to hear something positive - this is so so so so draining!!

[lwillisjr]

If you think about it stretching your penis will ruin the erection mechanism all together because you would be stretching that also. Also another thing is tearing your penis is most likely what caused peyronies disease in the first place. So stretching it out will likely cause more of a risk of damageing your penis further then it is or you can easily tear it if using this method "ved" . For example Just like lifting a really heavy box and you tear your arm its because you stretched it out.....

Noway,
First off.....   the VED/traction is gradually stretching your penis. So your analogy of "lifting a heavy box" isn't quite correct. It is a very gradual process. Also, I know very little about penis anatomy before I had Peyronies Disease, and now I consider myself quite versed after much study. If you follow the directions and advice you will not damage "the erection mechanism". It is quite a complex precess involving nerves, blood flow, hormones, etc.

There are several good reference sites online if you want to do some follow up.

[skunkworks]

Tim468 I dont understand this with the ved.. Your penis isnt made to be "stretched out" it will damage the erection process. So maybe your penis will be longer but you might tear it more or make yourself completely limp. Myself I wouldnt use this method.

Your penis stretches itself out every time you get an erection. In what way would it damage the erection process? Blood vessels are quite stretchy, especially with low traction over long periods of time.

The only part of the body that I would be worried about is the nerves as they do not stretch and grow back at a very slow rate, but apparently they have enough give/slack in the first place to accomodate a certain amount of stretching.

[newguy]

noway - the VED and traction are treatment options that have been useful for some men. If a person has an inherent weakness (which isn't the greatest surprise in people with peyronie's) on occasion people they can maybe worsen their condition through these techniques, though it does seem to be pretty rare (especially for the VED, where it's almost unheard of). For the majority I believe that these techniques can be used in moderation to regain some length. Studies confirm that for traction, and the results here should be confirmation enough for VED treatment.

Of course anything can happen, but typically I wouldn't comsider the kind of injury that can result in peyronies as being comparable with, say VED use for instance. With the VED you are  able to meaure how much pressure you apply.