VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices

[cowboyfood]

First, Jackblack, thank you for your input.  I'm using the Vitality and I have been very satisfied with the product.  I wondered if the fact that the Vitality's lack of a gauge would be a significant issue.  But, after using the device, I'm not sure if a gauge is significant even though it might be relevant.  The feelings I have and the appearance of the penis while I'm using the VED is a very useful and sufficient "gauge" for me from what I can tell.

Update and a few questions/observations:

Special thanks to Old Man, Angus, and Jackieo for all of their encouragement, opinions and instructions towards my VED usage.

I'm about halfway through my initial 26-week protocol.  Prior to beginning the protocol, I spent at least a couple of weeks practicing with the VED.

Presentation of my deformity began last December, small indentation on the right side; since then a smaller dent has appeared on the left side.  Bend: noticable to me, a 20 -25 degree upward bend at the end of my penis. 

And, maybe my erections have been "straighter" compared to before presentation of my right side indentation.  I distinctly remember a leftward curve of my erect penis, not much, maybe 10 - 20 degrees.  I say this, because I believe the initial indentation made my erect penis straighter. 

Since I have never taken any measurements with regards to a bend, I'm going by memory.  But, I have a digital photography chronicle (at least weekly) of my erect penis (who would have ever thought of they'd have that kind of collection? I guess it's kinda nice to have in any event).

Length and girth have remained basically the same compared to pre-December measurements. 

It appears to me that "maybe" the right side indentation "may be" less pronounced in my erect penis than a few months ago.  But, it may not be...but, then again I subjectively think that it is somewhat less pronounced.

Observation: When I use the VED's middle cylinder (my personal favorite), the number of cycles it takes me to get fully engorged varies.  I believe I read that others notice this also.  Also, I do a few "warm up" cycles that I do not count towards the protocol's 10 daily cycles.

Question:  When should I begin counting cycles towards my "10 daily cycles?"  I usually start counting after about 3 or so warm-ups, but my penis is not fully engorged at that point.  I'm wondering if I should start counting when my penis is mostly engorged.

This may not be a significant inquiry, but I'm always trying to be cautious with the VED usage. 

Oh, one other observation: I think my penis skin has been stretched...(note: I'm circumcised)...I notice that when I'm flaccid, it appears that what foreskin I have has been stretched and covers more of my penis' head.  Anyone else notice this???  Of course, I realize that the state of a flaccid penis changes depending on a variety of circumstance.

Also, in addition to "throwing" the VED at my condition since late April, my arsenal against the condition includes:
Supplements: L-Arginine, ALC, Vit E (since April), Vit D3 and Vit K (since May).
Prescriptions: Pentox (since mid May), Viagra (since mid May)
Lifestyle: Running daily, eating healthy (I rarely drink alcohol)
Mental: this forum, being social, making myself available to women

Thanks for any comments.

CF

[Tim468]

Sad,

Les said it all very succinctly. One thing to do is to de-emphasize erections for a while in your sex life and get going with the VED. This assures that even if there is a problem with the workings of the penis or the mind, your penis will be gettnig stretched out nice and firmly every day. The blood flow or the stretching helps a lot, and many of us report improved erections after using the VED for a while.

Other conditions like diabetes can affect erectile quality (and are associated with the onset of Peyronie's as well) so a good evaluation of your general health is in order too.

Finally, if nothing more pressing is going on like diabetes, then sometimes cialis or viagra can help too. Beins ure that your penis CAN get firm often allows the psychological component to fade away, and then the need for meds fades too.

Tim

[lwillisjr]

It effects each of us differently. It depends on the size and location of your scaring. Some of us have Peyronies but still achieve firm and hard erections. Others, however are affected in a way that blood flow can be restricted.

There is also a very strong psychological component. Something says "my erection isn't right" and this cn impact our thinking and ability to get erections as well.

Les

[Sad]

Since I've had Peyronies, I'm no longer able to get a hard erection. They're soft, only semi-erections. Does the bend caused by the disease make it impossible to get a full erection?

[jackisback]

I've spent a lot of time researching on the internet about various things (not the least of which Peyronie's), but have had little to offer back.  So, I have been inspired to write a review and give my opinions about the VEDs which I have used since I have used 3 different brands. I hope that it will help somebody. The pumps I have used are: A) Vitality; B) Boston; and C) LA Pump. Since this is a long review, I’ll say right now that I recommend using cylinders from Boston or LA Pump. I recommend using the pump that LA Pump provides, but don’t buy from them, because Harbor Freight sells it for $20. Don’t worry that it’s cheap. More expensive is not always better.

First, I believe one of the most important aspects of pumping is to have a gauge, and I want to stress this. This will let you know what pressure you are using, and this can be an invaluable resource. There is a forum called ThundersPlace dedicated to penis enlargement, and regardless of what you think of the plausibility of that, I think their words of caution are undeniably a good warning. In other words: if they wouldn't do something with their (probably healthy, ED free) penises, then you definitely shouldn't subject your Peyronies Disease afflicted penis to it. Most things I have read have said that you should keep your pump below 3 Hg for the first few weeks or months, and rarely ever go above 5 Hg ever (remember these are the limits for guys who don't even have the penis diseases we do, so the lower the better). The past few weeks, I have been using a traction device, and using my old gaugeless pump (because I didn’t have another cylinder in that size that connects to a normal pump). The quality of my erections have decreased (bad sign there), but also, last night when I used a gauged pump I approached 4.5 Hg before feeling any discomfort. Combined with worse ED, I could recognize this as a very bad sign since usually I am much harder and in discomfort long before I pump up to 5 Hg (for me something around 2 Hg). The gauge let me know that I need to take a rest period for a few weeks that I would not have been able to recognize fully since I had no pain if I had just been going by what my penis "felt like". My penis was getting too much pressure, even though I couldn’t feel it.

So, the first VED I bought was Vitality’s Peyronie’s Therapy http://www.fitzz.com/Vitality-Plus-Three-Cylinder-Vacuum-Therapy-System--Recommended-for-Peyronies-Therapy_p_1983.html Don’t get me wrong, I got some good pumps from it. But, I also had some issues. For one: it doesn’t have a gauge. Two: it’s designed to use these rubber parts (a tiny ring on the pump which lines up with the base of the cylinder, and a black rubber attachment to go on the end of the cylinder that presses against your body. These pieces are definitely necessary for a good air seal on the Vitality pump, but in my opinion, other pumps do not lack anything by not having these items. For me, these items serve as an annoyance because I must carefully and liberally lube up (to prevent air leak) an extra part on all sides (the large rubber bit) instead of just rubbing the inside and end of the cylinder, and going in. Also, I believed I had a nick in the tiny rubber ring once, and ordered a replacement once (I don’t remember if that was really the problem, but why have extra pieces that can go bad and require you to order additional parts?). One of the main benefits of Vitality is that all the tubes fit into each other so it takes up less space. I personally believe that is a slight benefit to come at the cost of too many other things. Also, don’t neglect, that if you buy a Vitality pump, those cylinders are not compatible with other pumps. So, if one day you decide you want a gauge, you will have to buy new cylinders. If you want to buy a different sized cylinder from Vitality, I assume you can do so. Funny enough, I just looked at the normal VED provided by Vitality, and they recommend a 2” tube as “Perfect for 99% of Men”, yet their Peyronie’s package includes only a 1.5” a 1.75” and a 2.25”.

The second pump I used was Boston Pumps. The first problem I had was that the pump didn’t seem very good. The gauge was not calibrated, and I don’t know if I can calibrate it. I also didn’t really like the way the pump felt for reasons I can’t fully remember or explain. It’s almost unfair to review them, because I bought a “Sleevemaster” tube http://www.bostonpump.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=13 I have ED, but my worse problem is getting the end of my penis erect, meaning even at full erection (rare), my glans (head) usually still looks small and soft. I hoped the Sleevemaster would constrict my base, and force blood to the head, and be better for me, but it simply didn’t work that way (FOR ME!). For many other people here, it may be a great tube, but it didn’t work for me. Also, the sleevemaster cylinder itself expands out at the end, so removing the Sleevemaster insert isn’t a great solution. However, from looking at their normal tubes, they may be even better than the ones I use now. Remember, all these tubes can be used with any other typical coupler based pump, not just with Boston’s pump.

Currently I use LA Pump. I thought the cylinders looked funny at first, but I haven’t noticed any difficulty keeping my air tight seal while using them, and also the pump I believe is the best one that I’ve used. I bought the pump for full price, then I saw this recommendation by this guy: http://www.thundersplace.org/forum/showthread.php?t=69203 claiming that the pump here: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92474 is exactly the same. So, if I were starting out today, I would buy the pump from Harbor Freight and buy some tubes from LA or Boston. Also, the LA Pump package includes an “instructional video” which was pretty much worthless.

Buying a standard pump also has other benefits. For instance, many people think pumping with water can be safer than pumping with air. You cannot do this with the Vitality pump safely because water would ruin the pump. However, with a standard pump you can attach something like the "In-line Water Trap" shown here https://www.pumptoys.com/prod/stoframe.php to safely pump with water. I personally have never used this device or used a water pump.

Hope this helps someone in making a more educated decision.

[Tim468]

It actully takes very little lung power to create enough suction. In fact all the suction comes from pressure generated by the mouth and barely involves the lungs at all. There is no funky taste and the whole thing cleans up quite easily with a long bristle brush.

When you say there is no funky taste, I assume that... oh, never mind.  I'll stick to a hand pump. I would also add that I *think* that I generate much higher pressures by a pump than I could by mouth. Sort of about the same as pumping up a bicycle tire would take a pump too.

Tim

[crookedmile]

It actully takes very little lung power to create enough suction. In fact all the suction comes from pressure generated by the mouth and barely involves the lungs at all. There is no funky taste and the whole thing cleans up quite easily with a long bristle brush.

[Mick]

My first thought was that this looked pretty exhausting (ever if one doesn't have emphysema as I do), but if Tim, who is a lung doctor, endorses it I guess I'm wrong.

Mick

[Tim468]

Looks great. With that curve, you might want to twist it to face the other way!

Tim

[crookedmile]

Here's one I put together with stuff I had on hand plus about $4 for 1.5" i.d. tube and PVC cap. The longer small diameter black tube allows suction from the mouth which provides plenty of vacuum and is easy to regulate as regards discomfort. To maintain vacuum you keep your tongue on the end of the black tube and "sip" a bit if necessary. The receiving end is a piece of packing styrofoam folded over the edge and taped down first with clear packaging tape and then over that with black electrical tape. No glue was used except a bit of epoxy to join the nipple to the hole I drilled in the cap. The cap is a fairly tight fit and the tape seals it. I filed both ends of the big tube smooth and rounded the receiving end edges before applying the styrofoam and tape.

[bassman]

Will do - thanks for the responce !

[Old Man]

Bassman:

If the red marks have not changed in the two week period of time, I would recommend seeing your uro or family physician. It may be something other than the overpumping of the vacuum. You have to be very careful with vacuum pressure as the penis is very sensitive to that as you found out. Also, you might be allergic to the lubricant or something related to it.

So,to be on the safe side you should get it checked out professionally.

Old Man

[bassman]

Gentlemen,

I have a question for anyone willing to help ? I posted two weeks ago of possibly over pumping the VED and causing bright red marks on the shaft and under the head of mt penis. I was advised by OLD MAN to stop for a couple of weeks, let the injury heal and start back up the VED process with LOW pressure - DULY NOTED !

It's been two weeks with NO VED and just a couple of erections but the red marks have not charged and some times slightly etch. Could this be something other than pressure damage from the VED like a fungus or a different symptom of peyronies. I want to get back to VEDing but don't want to cause further trauma ?

BASSMAN

P.S., Thanks again JACKP for your kind words over the phone !!!!!!!!!!

[Woodman]

Hello Everyone

I have a problem with using the VED. I have used it off and on for a year now. I have a ventricle plaque on the under side of my congenital curve that points down. When I use the VED it stretches my curve straight pulling on the plaque. It irritates the plaque making it hurt for like 2 to 5 days later. I stop using it for a while and try again before long it happens again to one degree or another. I have tryed all different pressures moderate to light and even have the problem with light pressure. Light pressure being three to five pumps on the VED.

I really want to use it because I believe when I could get it to work for a while without any big problems it seemed to help with the problem of tightness and erection quality etc. I tryed to ask my Uro and believe it or not even though they prescribe it for Peyronies along with injections they really do not know how to properly use it. I asked and he said just pump it up to it just begans to hurt. We all know thats not correct.

I was wondering if anyone has had an experience like this with the VED and if they might know or suggest a solution to it.

Thanks Everyone

Woodman

[voulezvous]

There's another huge reason why the use of a VED regimen is a wise course to follow. The longer plaque remains, the more likely it will become fibrotic & lose the elastin that is in the "normal tunica tissue. The only way to avoid this - its where the "shrinkage" comes from - is by use of the VED or regular strong erections. Certainly it is great to see results in curvature & even length but remember that we are all dealing with organic changes that have occurred inside a part of our bodies. Our enemy is scar tissue.
Even if you do not see significant alteration in curvature or length, the day may come when you decide that some form of surgery is the only way to go. If you look back at the surgery thread you will see postings by JackP & others (who have had surgery) that they either wish they had used the VED or are thankful that they did. You could say that it is a proactive step to avoid becoming worse off even if you don't become "better".

[newguy]

bummedout- It was stated to me once that some of those being helped with treatment do not actually post here and so we don't hear their positive reports of progress. If someone experiences significant improvements they are as likely to swan off and never come back, rather than detail their progress. That's why I'm thankful of those people here who are basically stable and function (via surgery, VED etc) and do continue to post.

There are a number of bits and pieces around here though if you dig, from people gaining back significant lost length with the VED and improving curvature. It appears to be a treatment which can aid those recently diagnosed (as long as it doesn't worsen pain) and men with a stable conditon, so used correctly it's a good option for all. I posted a study a while back relating to how VED use reduces instances of erectile disfunction and curvature in those receiving penile surgery. This scenario does not mirror peyronies exactly, but it does suggest that it may well be something that can be of benefit to you.

[double eagle]

Double Eagle,

You mentioned in your last post that you had a "humongous" reduction in your curvature.  I could not find the post where you stated the change but di read one reply that mentioned going from a 90 degree curvature to 10 degrees in 6 weeks.  Is that accurate?

Fred

Sorry for the delay, Fred, life happened. 

During the early stages of my VED use I experienced a humongous curvature change, to which I attributed the VED usage. Unfortunately that was a false proclamation, as not long after curvature changed, I found a new plaque formation that had formed on the other side. WALLA! Loss of curve. Unfortunately, I lost some length in the process.

Since that first misguided proclamation of miraculous shift, nothing else has changed, besides a little more girth and length in the flaccid stage.

[bummedout]

So I'm about to regiment myself for the next 6 months into using a 3 cylinder VED.  As I begin this regiment, I just wanted to get an idea of what I can realistically expect.  I have plaques and indentations in a few areas of my penis.  In these areas I'm also missing rigidity.  If I understand correctly, what the VED is suppose to do is stretch out the plaques (not get rid of them) so that my penis looks normal during an erection.  I should also get my rigidity back and be free from pain during an erection.  Now, after the 6 months if this does happen, after I stop using the VED will things eventually go back to the way they were with respect to the plaques and indentation that I had before I started the 6 month regiment?  I apologize if this question is redundant.

Also, I know a couple of you have had success with this technique.  Are there any others out there who would like to share a success story?

Finally, I just wanted to thank those on here who have helped me out, especially Old Man who has been very patient.  Thanks.

Bummed

[Angus]

RichB... if you work one of these valves into your VED let us know how it works out and how you got it installed. I never thought of aquarium stuff being a source of decent, low priced equipment. Good idea!

[RichB]

If anyone is trying to make their own VED, Wal-Mart sells very cheap check valves in the aquarium section. Probably about 2 dollars tops. They aren't industrial quality, but I would consider that a plus due to it being gentle. Perfect for sealing a good -5 mm Hg.

[bassman]

Hawk, Jackp & Old Man,

Thank you for your quick responces to my questions and concerns. Old Man sent me a PM and advised me to give myself a brake on the VED until the red marks heal hopefully no longer than two weeks and than to start back at about the 20 week spot and be VERY careful with the pressure - duly noted.

Jackp, I received you PM's and will be calling you to discuss my questions relative to the implant.

I am so fortunate to have caring people like yourselves and others on this forum - GOD bless all of you !

Bassman

[Old Man]

NOTE TO ALL NEW MEMBERS:

Based on the number of posts being made and private messages I receive about how to use a VED, it is obvious that the protocol topic in the Child Boards section of the main forum is not being read and/or followed.

There are two protocols listed there: One is for the three cylinder purchased medical quality VEDs and the other is for those members who have made their own VEDs by using three individual cylinder type VEDs.

Each protocol goes into detail as to how the VEDs are assembled and used. Each protocol goes into detail about the safe way to use a VED. It is absolutely necessary to follow those protocols to the letter to obtain any results. If not followed exactly, trauma or injury can and will result. Again, OVERPUMPING THE VACUUM PRESSURE can only lead to problems as has been stated by several private messages I have gotten and some posts on the main forum.

NOTE:
The "home made" VEDs are just as good as the purchased units for Peyronies Disease. Each individual who made them will know how to assemble and use them, but must follow the protocol as listed in the Child Boards topic.

PLEASE GUYS, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS before embarking on any therapy sessions with your VEDs.

Respectfully, Old Man

[Hawk]

The red dots are blood drawn through capillary wall to the surface of the penis.  I do not think the penis cannot adapt to that degree of pressure with that blood chemistry.  Either your blood is thinned with vitamin E, Ginko, aspirin, Garlic, or other one of the other many blood thinners, OR your vacuum pressure is just too high.

[cowboyfood]

bassman,

Please take this comment in the context that I'm not very knowledgeable about the red dots, but if you're taking a relatively high dosage of Vitamin E then that could be a factor. 

I've been using the VED for about eight or nine weeks and I have not noticed any red dots; and, I'm taking 400mg of Vitamin E daily...I think I saw others discussing this issue before, and postulated that Vitamin E could be a factor.

CF

[bassman]

Gentlemen,

When I first started the 26 VED program I was over zealous and produced a couple of red dots ( 1/8" dia. ) on the shaft of my penis and was advised by the group to back the pressure down and not be so aggressive until my penis acclimated to the exercise. I backed off and allowed the dots to heal, which they did and I started the program over with no further problems until I reached week 23. Now the bright red dots are back and there are 4 of them approx. 1/4" in dia., I figured my penis had acclimated and I could bump the pressure back up towards the end of the 26 week program to get the full benefit, I guess I was wrong ?

How long should I stop the program, if I stop until the dots completely heal should I start the program from week one and go another 26 weeks with more care of not harming myself - I hope did not harm myself ?

All comments are welcome.

Bassman

[pichou]

I called Augusta Medical customer service 1-800-827-8382 and they sell a DVD for $9.99

Good luck

[casa]

Hi, I recently acquired the Vitality VED thru Fitzz on the good advice of OldMan. I know there is a lot of info on here as to what to do; however I was wondering if there is a site with a video demo somewhere on the net as it would make life a bit easier. Thanks for all the help in advance.

[lwillisjr]

Dr. Levine recommends Pentox together with Verapamil injections.

Les

[shrout]

Interesting replies, guys. Thanks. It looks like the good Dr.Herazy and I, and several of the urolgists I have consulted are in the minority.  I'm quite willing to bow to the combined wisdom of this forum and accept that Peyronies plaque can be stretched, permanently, (which is what I'm on about - I guess nobody is disputing that it can be stretched temporarily, unless it has calcified) by use of the VED.

That being the case, is there a consensus on this forum as to which medications or treatments are best used in combination with the VED to soften the plaque and make it more pliable, as jwillisjr suggested in his post.  Or is it simply a matter of trial and error. Many thanks.   

[jackp]

I went to a Chiropractor for many years with my back. Over the years we got to know each other pretty well.

One day we were talking about ED. He told me that the nerves to the penis are higher in the back than the L4 L5 problems I was having and that with my uro's diagnosis of Venous Leakage that he could not help me. This was later confirmed by my back surgeon and Dr. Milam.

As the ED progressively got worse he and I had another chat and I told him I was going to Nashville for my implant. He told me his dad has some of the same problems I have. The short version is he sent his dad to Dr. Milam and he also had an implant.

During the course of our visits we talked about the VED. He agreed with the principle and the exercise recommended by Old Man.

IMHO the bunk put out by Dr. Hearzy DC is just than a bunch of bunk.

Jackp

[ComeBacKid]

I think it would be foolish not to try out the VED, this so called doctor is way out of his field and doesn't know what he is talking about.  Even bone can be stretched out, eventually anyone using the VED will see some kind of size gain, even if it is minimal.  As for straightening I'm not convinced it will always work for everyone, as it didn't help me with straightening.

Comebackid

[Angus]

 
     When Dr. Herazy says "from my experience with countless men...." I would like to know why they are countless. The term is usually used as a substitute for an astronomical number that is difficult to comprehend, like stars in the sky. If he in fact has had interaction with a number of men who have had no success and trouble with the VED, I would like to know that number and I'd like to know why that number isn't published or at least readable on his web site. In this case, "countless" could mean 2,584.... or 2. Since the real number is not in print, this only adds to the speculation and wonderment element about Peyronies Disease and the never-ending search for some facts and science about this disease.
     At least this board is the one place where mens own words about their experiences with this disease can be read with a bit of assurance that what is being read is a factual account, written to the best abilities of the author.

[Hawk]

What is the truth here, as it seems to me to be fairly fundamental to the efficacy of the VED for Peyronies? Is Dr. Herazy propounding a consensus view within the medical profession or just his own opinion? 

First we need to be clear that Dr. Herazy is  not an MD.  He is a chiropractor as opposed to a medical doctor or physician.  It bothers me a bit that he does not make that a clear point as soon as you log onto his site.

[lwillisjr]

Shrout,
I don't know anything about Dr. Herazy. It is an interesting article in that it almost contradicts most of the opinions in use on this site. Particularly his comment on the following:

From Dr. Herazy article "From my experience with countless men, my opinion is that it is simply better to avoid the temptation and pass on the Vacuum Erection Device.  It can cause a lot more problems than the small and temporary change in Peyronie’s disease is worth."

From what I can tell in the article it is his professional opinion. I don't see any studies referenced. And as I said in a prior post, a VED or traction needs to be used in conjunction with natural or prescribed drugs to help soften the plaque.

All I know is that there are at least a few doctors who have published studies indicating where a combination of things including traction did produce positive results. While I respect Dr. Herazy's professional opinion, I would lean towards the results of the studies.

[shrout]

Shrout,
Sorry to disagree. The healthy tissue doesn't "fill out" around the plaque. The concept is to actually stretch the plaque and make it more pliable. Using a traction device is the same concept. This is also why many also take a combination of natural and prescription drugs to also make the plaque softer and more pliable.

Les

Les. Thanks for your reply That's interesting. I was reading this http://www.peyronies-disease-help.com/blog/?tag=ved the other day, written by a Dr.Herazy, and this paragraph stood out....

 "The danger with a penile vacuum pump is in the overuse or abuse of such a device.  The theory behind the therapeutic use of the VED is to slowly and gently stretch the scar tissue and soften it.  That does not appear to happen, because the normal tissue does indeed stretch, but the Peyronie’s disease plaque tissue does not.  As a result a man finds that he has a temporarily larger penis that is less able to reach a normal full erection – and it still has the same Peyronie’s disease plaque or scar, and/or curve, he had before. "

This appears to contradict your statement, and confirm my understanding of the situation re. stretching of plaque.

What is the truth here, as it seems to me to be fairly fundamental to the efficacy of the VED for Peyronies? Is Dr. Herazy propounding a consensus view within the medical profession or just his own opinion? 

[youngling]

Hello all,

I am posting now to make note that I have begun a protocol for the recent VED I purchased.  This is the Vitality 3 cylinder that everyone seems to be getting.

I have posted before, but am going to recap.  This is now almost 2 years since I have had my modified Nesbit (Plication) Surgery for an approximately 35 degree CONGENITAL downwards curve. Since then, sutures are still fairly palpable (if you look for them) and penis has a minor residual downwards curvature.

Due to the surgical scar around the circumcision site which is still a bit raised, the smallest A cylinder is giving me trouble, in that, I do not believe I will be using it much during the protocol, instead going straight to the B Medium cylinder, as this allows for a decent amount of stretching with a moderately low amount of negative pressure.

I will carefully be monitoring the palpability of my suture sites (stopping the protocol if these get more noticeable), and also the amount of residual curvature (currently approximately 15 degrees).

Should be posting in about two weeks with progress.  Any advice?  please do tell!

[lwillisjr]

Bummedout, I don't think it's possible to get rid of plaque with the VED, although some of the more knowledgeable posters may correct me on this.  What the VED does is to enable the rest of the penis, the healthy tissue, to "fill out", to stretch, especially around the plaque, where most of the stress of the vacuum pressure is concentrated. This is how, in theory, curvature and hourglassing is reduced. I think. Don't quote me on this.

Shrout,
Sorry to disagree. The healthy tissue doesn't "fill out" around the plaque. The concept is to actually stretch the plaque and make it more pliable. Using a traction device is the same concept. This is also why many also take a combination of natural and prescription drugs to also make the plaque softer and more pliable.

Les

[Hawk]

Just a reminder that these instructions are at least 3 places on the forum including the original post buried somewhere in this topic, the childboards under VED, and the easiest to find is under their own topic in the board entitled Resource Library. If you go to this last topic you will also find links that Tim provided as a source for cylinders.

On the forum home page just click on the Peyronies Disease Resource Library and you will see the topic about 4th topic down.

[shrout]

  Has anyone had any luck using a VED to get rid of their plaque, increase rigidity, and to fill out their indentations?

Bummedout, I don't think it's possible to get rid of plaque with the VED, although some of the more knowledgable posters may correct me on this.  What the VED does is to enable the rest of the penis, the healthy tissue, to "fill out", to stretch, especially around the plaque, where most of the stress of the vacuum pressure is concentrated. This is how, in theory, curvature and hourglassing is reduced. I think. Don't quote me on this.

In my experience the stretching and filling out has been temporary... possibly because I haven't been rigorous enough with my regime. My understanding is that for a permanent change to take place a regime of 2x30 min. sessions daily for 6 months is necessary. Even then there's only a 30% approx. chance of permanent improvement, so I'm told.  If others have got rid of plaque with the VED I apologise, but I suspect if that's the case it might have been used in conjunction with other treatments e.g. Pentox, or whilst still in the active phase.

All the above just my opinion/experience. I am not a doctor.

[Angus]

   Posts dealing with making your own VED's have been in the VED section of the Child Boards for a long time, but I realize that they may be hard to find given the amount of posts and texts in that section. I have changed the font color of the posts dealing with making VED's to bright RED in the VED Child Board section to make them easier to find. A note at the beginning of that section about this change is also added and the note is in RED font color as well. I hope this makes finding this information easier for individuals to find.

Here is a direct link to the VED section of the Child Boards:

http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,439.0.html

[Angus]

Some thoughts in reply to your questions:

1. The cylinder should be clear so you can observe physical changes such as skin tightness and skin color for safety. You can tell a lot by physical sensation but you need to see the physical changes as an erection is developed.
2. You do not have to have conical tubes. Straight walled tubes work just fine.
3. Cylinder wall thickness must be thick enough to provide rigidity to the tube. If the walls flex inward when the air is evacuated, it is too thin.
4. The smallest tube is usually 1 1/2 inches inside diameter. I have not owned a commercial 3 tube VED and I am not certain of the larger tubes diameters of those.
5. I use a sex toy grade vacuum bulb-type pump for my VED's. It certainly can produce the required vacuum. You are only dealing with -3 to -5 inches Hg of vacuum to produce an erection in a VED.
6. I like Astroglide as I believe it stays "slick" longer. Old Man and others have great success using the Wal Mart house brand of water-based lubricant. I have used it in the past and is certainly good enough for VED use.
7. I can't say if the VED can help with present pain as I did not have great pain in the early stages of Peyronies. I can only say that the little pain I had eventually got better then went away; I cannot say for certain that it was a result of straightening via VED use, but I feel that straightening and re-modelling by VED use may have had something to do with pain reduction in the long run.

[cowboyfood]

1.Why does the cylinder have to be clear?

I'm using the Vitality VED and the tubes are clear.  In my opinion, a clear tube is more likely to be safer because you can see your penis as it is engorged by the negative pressure, and this may help to prevent overpumping.

Also, many VED users like to take some measurements of their penis in an engorged state (especially with the middle and larger tubes), so it seems to me it would be it would be easier to take any measurements with a clear tube.

CF

[crookedmile]

Hi all
I suppose I should introduce myself a bit. I am 58 years old and I developed Peyronie's from an accident during sex in Feb 08. The bending seems to have been stable for the past 9 mo or so, about 80 degrees up. Intercourse very difficult and certainly there is pain after any erection, which I have found alpha lipoic acid to be very helpful in moderating. Been checking out the directions and photos for DIY VEDs. I have some degree of handiness with tools and materials and they do look awfully simple so am thinking of saving myself some money. Here are some questions I've come up with. I have read many of the posts in this section but not all so please excuse if some of these have already been answered.
1.Why does the cylinder have to be clear?
2.Can the cylinders be perfectly cylindrical or does one end I.D. have to be less than the other (conical)?
3.Is there some importance to the thickness of the walls of the cylinders?
4.Given individual's different penis sizes flaccid and erect what are the ideal I.D. sizes relative of the 3 cylinders?
5.Since some have used sex toy suction bulbs is it inconceivable that enough suction could be generated by the mouth connected to a tube and a valve to produce vacuum in the cylinders?
6.I have seen many suggestions on lubes. What is the current thinking for effectiveness and cost?
7.If successful, is a VED going to help the pain factor associated with during and after erections?
Thanks very much.

[Thin Man]

Hi Bummedout,

My sympathies. As you can see from my post yesterday I also got my first injury from a needle, although I recently had a needle to get me erect for an ultrasound and I don't believe it's caused a problem (that was two months ago, we shall see) - the Doc used an insulin needle, and was careful not to go anywhere near existing scars.

You'll find many positive reviews here on VEDs for straightening but not much on hourglassing - anyone else care to weigh in on this?

Thanks so much Hawk,

You may be on to something there. My recent injury was partly caused by an rather stiff erection ring with a gap for the urethra (is that what they call a "C ring"?, not sure). I tried a variety of erection rings and found all of them to be extremely unpleasant when reaching ejaculation - it was exactly what you described - semen backing up and a burning sensation in the bladder. I found the C ring to be somewhat less aversive.

After my recent injury I got pain at the site of my old injury - near the tip of the penis (the site of the old needle stick) but also a few brand new areas of pain including the base of the penis. My Chinese acupuncturist suggested that this might be a muscular injury and could be causing some of my ejaculatory symptoms. He strongly recommended Kegel exercises which I've been doing regularly. Lately I began Dr. Herazy's suggested 8 second Kegels. I've had some ejaculatory improvement, but I'd say it's maybe only halfway back to normal. I've had no pain at all at the base of the penis since the first few weeks after my recent injury.

I don't believe I've got an enlarged prostate, I had the standard test about a year ago and they tell me mine seems normal. My recent ejculation problem began suddenly coinciding exactly with my recent injury in November. At the same time I had sudden circumferential shrinkage (which includes the corpus spongiosum!) throughout the distal end of my penis, although I haven't noticed a change in urination since then. I don't have a downward curvature and very little curvature overall, just this #$%@ shrinkage and hourglassing. Actually I've had some difficulty with urination for years, but I don't believe it's an extreme case, just the normal stuff men go through as they age. My ejaculations have generally seemed ok over the years until my recent injury, although for the last five years or so I've sometimes had more difficulty reaching ejaculation, but I think that's an entirely different problem - I think I've lost some sensitivity due to scarring. Ok maybe aging has something to do with it too.

Anyway, I'm just not totally convinced that VED use won't cause pressure on the urethra if there's hourglassing. Looking at a cross section diagram of the penis, it would make sense to me that both corpus carvernosa would expand in every direction possible - I assume most of that would be outward circumference and length being limited only by the tunica I guess, but each individual corpus cavernosa also presses against the corpus spongiosum surrounding the urethra and I assume would also expand that way too. For a guy with circumferential shrinkage perhaps even more expansion would go that way(?). Dr. Wessels reports he sees no damage to the tunica which gives me some hope, but I'm approaching the VED with caution, I've only tried it about 3 times, several weeks ago. My reduced ejaculations are my biggest frustration right now. I know this sounds shallow, but much to my surprise I'm suddenly starting to care less about relationships, sex, and life in general. I hope this will pass. I sure don't want to make my condition any worse.

Over and out,

Thin Man

[bummedout]

I also have only hourglassing and indentations that cause buckling.  My last plaque was caused by my urologist sticking a needle in me to give me an erection so he could "have a look".  I would never mess with a needle again, for anything down there.  Has anyone had any luck using a VED to get rid of their plaque, increase rigidity, and to fill out their indentations?

[Hawk]

Reduced ejaculation is frequently the result of some retrograde ejaculation caused by enlarged prostate.  Some or all of the semen takes the less restricted route at the point the two pathways join and gets sidetracked into the bladder.  Retrograde ejaculation in itself is not a major health concern but what is causing it could be.  There may be other causes for reduced ejaculation but If you have decent urine flow than it would not urethra constriction from Peyronies Disease.  I think it is accurate to say that most of the urethra support comes from the lesser 3rd chamber corprus spongiosum which prevents it from being squeezed during erection.  Scaring there would tend to cause a downward curve and MAY cause some urethra constriction during erection.  I don't state this from any expert advice but only from what I have gleaned from discussion with Peyronies Disease doctors and reading.

Dr. Levine's very small preliminary traction study indicated improvement in hourglass deformity for what that is worth.

[Thin Man]

Angus, Thank you so much. It's been awhile since I've written - my history is a bit of a story. Someday when I get the energy I will have to write an entry for personal histories so readers can refer to that. In brief - I had surgery in 1995 - a mircovascular penile bypass due to arterial blockage from an old injury. My scarring began as a direct result of one the tests prior to this - the intern stuck two large needles into my penis - just behind the glans, but one of these he had to do four times before he got it right. This was to "inflate" the penis with saline solution in order to do an arteriogram. I got a lump at the point of the multiple needle stick that never went away. Some months later scarring started expanding from this point and reached almost half my penis, causing reduction in circumference but no substantial curvature. I'm told the scarring is diffuse, I have very few noticeable lumps, and a recent Doppler study shows no visible fibrosis.

My narrowing gradually improved over the years, but suddenly got worse again last November after an unfortunate incident. I was experimenting with a low dose of Levitra which wasn't working so well for me, so I then used an erection ring which worked, but when I climaxed I got incredible pain. Directly after this the area of narrowing suddenly got worse than before and expanded further up my penis about half an inch. This new expanded area is noticeably narrower than the rest during both a flaccid and erect state, but I'm grateful my erect penis hasn't started to buckle at this spot.

I would urge that anyone not use erection enhancing medications and an erection ring at the same time, this was the biggest mistake of my life. I know some of you have found this to be useful, but please if you're considering doing this consider also what happened to me.

Since my re injury in November my ejaculations have been greatly reduced in time and intensity. I don't know for certain if this is a direct result of the area of waisting at about the midpoint of the penile shaft, or if it's the result of reduced circumference in the distal half of the penis, or maybe both, but I assume these are related. My recent injury correlates exactly with reduced ejaculation. It's improved somewhat since then but it's not the same anymore.

Since VED use helps erectile tissue expand, my fear is that it could expand in all directions including towards the urethra, or is there a good reason to assume that's wrong?

I've asked Dr. Wessells about the ejaculatory problem and he doesn't have any suggestions for me. He doesn't strongly encourage me to use a VED or not use it, but he thinks if I'm going to try it longer intervals might be more beneficial than shorter ones. He's a surgeon, and has concluded that surgery and injection therapy are not good options for me (I agree), and that the time for me to take oral medications (Pentox, Potaba) would have been soon after the re injury - he thinks it's basically too late now. I tried Pentox at the time and it gave me dizzy spells, I had to stop - have been taking some other supplements. From November to February I lost about an inch in length and have regained a slight amount of circumference. Things seem to have stabilized somewhat by now (I hope, but who knows?). I'd like to regain length and especially circumference, but using the VED seems risky to me considering the nature of my injury.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Thin Man 

[Angus]

I used the VED for years with no negative changes in the hourglass. I don't remember anyone ever posting about problems with VED use and bad hourglass changes, and especially never heard anyone speak of ejaculatory problems after VED use. I can't imagine how VED use would narrow anything including the urethra but I suppose it would be possible to damage anything with VED abuse by overpumping. Did you discuss the reduced ejaculatory problem with your Dr.? There is no way to diagnose this on the forum; you need to talk to him about this. You mention mild, diffuse scarring but you don't say where this is or what the surgery was for. You'd have to talk to your Dr. about the two being possibly related. Apprehension about VED use can be addressed by going with the protocol as a guide, and to use light vacuum until a person learns the basics of the VED. The VED used properly will not damage anything.

[Thin Man]

Unlike most of you I don't have much of a curvature, my deepest sympathies to those of you who do. I however have a recent hourglass deformity, which fortunately is not so bad I'm getting buckling. I'm told by Dr. Wessels here in Seattle that hourglassing is one of the most difficult conditions to correct. I also have mild, diffuse scarring from surgery done 15 years ago. About 6 months ago re injured myself resulting in shrinkage in both length and circumference, but my main concern is the recent hourglass deformity at about the midpoint of my penis which I think is interfering with ejaculation. Then again my reduced functioning could also be due to the overall reduction in circumference in about half my penis, the distal half.

My question is - could it be that use of a VED might make hourglassing or internal narrowing worse? If regular VED use helps the penis expand outward, improving length and external circumference, might it also cause expansion inward putting more pressure on the urethra? The last thing I want to do is reduce my ejaculatory functioning even further. Has anyone had experience with a VED and hourglassing and/or narrowing?

In gratitude,

Thin Man

[Hawk]

Speaking of making a device yourself...does anyone remember that guy (I think his name was Robert) that was going to send out a traction device he made himself. I signed up, got an email from him and then he just disappeared. ,

  Speaking of that guy, what makes it more funny is how he chided all of us for being clueless about traction and how he was going to change all that with his revolutionary new design. At least when I developed my JackTrac system I included photos and a description 

Now that I amused myself I will go back to work.