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Author Topic: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies  (Read 22972 times)

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liber

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Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« on: April 22, 2014, 07:42:18 AM »

Anti Aging with a Priapus Shot ... it would be massive in commercial terms if it worked, everyone would be having it ... sorry people this is a scam. It simply bloats wrinkles much as botox does and overtime (not very long is re/absorbed). The pictures posted here show no difference to curvature.
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james1947

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2014, 04:30:55 PM »

No Liber, anti aging with PRP, not Priapus. Basically Priapus and PRP are the same, but in the anti aging industry they call it PRP.
And it is massive in commercial terms. Two weeks in advance, I barely found an empty hour for my treatment.
Botox is a chemical, PRP is your own blood. According to the specialists, the PRP for anti aging should be repeated after approximately two years. The reason is that during this time, our buddy continue the aging process (unfortunately).

James
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Nemo

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2014, 04:45:05 PM »

James, I would differ with your assertion that it is "massive in commercial terms."  At best, I think PRP is considered a procedure of questionable value and/or efficacy being practiced on the outskirts of traditional medicine and mostly (predominantly?) by boutique "anti-aging" and cosmetic clinics. If it were truly massive commercially, it would be a first-line treatment for any number of disorders/injuries, not something you have to search out on the internet.   

Nemo
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james1947

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2014, 04:53:15 PM »

You are right Nemo, I exaggerated in my sentence:
Quote
massive in commercial terms.

But PRP is gaining more and more track and becoming a mainstream procedure for anti aging.

James
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bonsomi

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2014, 10:29:38 AM »

Hi to everyone. So after 2 years you get worse again? The priapus effects are only temporary?

Bonsomi.
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liber

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2014, 11:24:34 AM »

it shows no age reversal other than bloating wrinkles (as botox does). the pictures posted on this forum show no reduction in curvature. i hope i am proved wrong and prp is this wonder treatment. sadly i think it is a scam for anti ageing and now we see here peyronie's. i suggest 'we' await feedback overtime to see how successful this procedure has been. thus saving money and possible worsening of this condition.

as stated this stuff has been around twenty years. if it worked everybody would be having it for everything.

finally having a cosmetic person with no experience injecting into ones penis seems rather stupid, even in the future instructing the next amount administered and where. then to advocate going to a cosmetic facility to have this procedure done is irresponsible. we are constantly informed in this forum to seek expert advice.

i do not believe this forum should be saying how great prp is at this stage. if people wish to experiment with prp that is their choice. i feel to much credence is being placed on what prp can achieve. it certainly has a market for those who want to stay young, but does it work? there is no evidence.
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Chef Chris

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2014, 11:48:48 AM »

Excuse me but PRP has bean used for sports injury a long time by regular doctors and have documented effect in wound heeling so to say its a scam seams rather harsh. 
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james1947

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2014, 05:10:31 PM »

I would like to clarify my position on the PRP.
* I am not advising no one to make PRP. Wait and see the results of the people that are doing it right now.
* As Chris have stated, PRP is used for sport injuries, including people like Tiger Wood and other known sports man.
* Yes liber, I my be stupid in your opinion for letting a doctor specialized in cosmetics to inject to my penis, unfortunately all the
   Peyronies "specialists" around me want to make just surgery, there is the big money. And I trust the skills of my doctor  more than
   those "specialists"
* You have to wait 2 or 3 weeks to get an appointment with my doctor, because so many people are making the anti aging
   treatment. I am sure most of them are not stupid.
* You are not getting worst again after 2 years. If you are older, you may need, not for sure, an additional treatment
   if the PRP is for cosmetic purposes because at higher age you can see more how you get older.
* As we can't use explicit and offending words on this forum (like stupid for example) and as a moderator I have to adhere to the
   forum rules, I will not say that comparing Botox with PRP is stupidity. One have to understand the difference between them before
   stating that they are the same
Hope the above makes things more clear regarding my private opinion on PRP, not as moderator.

James
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Japanfour

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2014, 07:27:18 PM »

Here's what I don't understand...

People are comparing this to botox when the two have literally nothing in common besides them being injected into an area. You don't inject botox into yourself for a sports injury.

On top of that, assuming this does only temporarily work...what is the issue? You get two years without peyronies pain, a reduction in curvature, and better erections...

How is that in any way, shape, or form "a scam"?

People inject botox every month to keep up with the wrinkles that re-occur. If I have to go once every two years for this...that's a small price to pay for dealing with the pain.
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NeoV

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2014, 10:50:36 PM »

Exactly,

Anything that helps erections helps Peyronie's, I don't see how it could be a temporary thing.
PRP should be judged for what it is, stem cells and various growth factors, nothing like Botox.
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MIKEHAWK

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2014, 12:55:59 AM »

It's ok, Nemo and Liber is seeking the formula for Immortality. Every organ in our body is bound to fail at one point, that's why we die, by logic any positive affect PRP has is only temporary. The difference between PRP and downing a dozen different pills is that it doesn't destroy your liver which will lower your testosterone production and cause more scar tissue to be produced.Let's not forget about the ritualistic process of taking those pills you advise on a daily basis? even if it will only last two years, i rather two years of not worrying about it than to destroy my liver and having to remember to pop pills daily.

We regenerate slower as we age for many reasons such as producing less HGH, and weakening of the telomeres which could have nothing to do with the PRP itself, when we have a recurrence years later maybe it's because we got Older? Saying PRP doesn't work simply cause you think it's temporary bloat when you never even tried it. it is funny because how can someone criticize something they never even tried when those that had tried it had remarkable results?

You think anyone would believe you if you made a review of a restaurant that you never even tried? maybe i should start judging people without even giving them a chance to prove themselves?

If one day someone found the Cure for HIV or Cancer and i had caught both of those, i'm not going to use it because someone on the internet that never even tried it told me that it's a "Scam". Sure it has worked for many of those Cancer patients but i'll say that it's only a temporary cure and that they will get cancer again so don't bother taking it ;)
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james1947

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2014, 01:21:01 AM »

Thanks MIKEHAWK, my English is sometime clumsy and difficult to understand.
Quote
when we have a recurrence years later maybe it's because we got Older?
This what I wanted to say :)

James
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liber

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2014, 04:08:37 AM »

this is my last post on this subject.

i have never said botox and prp are the same, i was making an analogy as to what i see as bloating of tissue. that is all i can see in the pictures posted. i reiterate in the pictures i've seen posted on this forum i can see no change in curvature.

if one chooses to use a practicioner who is not an expert, injecting into ones penis. not even knowing where to inject or how much prp needs to be induced and is advised by the recipient to their perceived knowledge, that is ones prerogative.

obviously i hope prp works and updates will continue to be submitted.
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Nemo

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2014, 09:53:41 AM »

MIKEHAWK, the thing is, I don't experiment on my body when there's experiential evidence to examine (meaning the small number of guys on this forum trying PRP along with easily accessed accounts on various other penis enlargement websites, where, invariably, results with priapus were short term. As to the results seen on this forum, like liber, I'm not seeing anything I'd call "remarkable." Suggesting we personally try every conceivable treatment before being allowed an opinion is ridiculous.  I tried topical verapamil, iontophoresis and other expensive treatments that didn't work - I'm happy if my expense and experience saves another from going through the same.)

I'll let the New York Times say it better than I can ... the results from PRP have not lived up to the hype. In fact, saline injections appear to be just as effective in most cases.  I'm happy for you guys to keep experimenting, but stop acting like those of us skeptical of this treatment are standing in the way of progress.  In fact, skepticism is an essential part of scientific progress.  Don't confuse enthusiasm for results. 

Nemo
 
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/phys-Erectile Dysfunction-does-platelet-rich-plasma-therapy-really-work/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

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MIKEHAWK

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2014, 10:47:10 AM »

then why act like you know what you're talking about when you're too scared to even "experiment" with something that's completely safe? Let those that are brave enough on this forum show their results. All you're providing is cynicism, how is it just enthusiasm when people who had Erectile Dysfunction now can achieve a firm erection?

From how i see it, all James is doing is providing examples of his experience with this treatment while you're just casting doubt. what's your problem with his positive results? Are you saying that out of all the pills that he had pounded down throughout the years manage to have no placebo effect, then with the PRP shot he has magically got a firm erection? I'm glad that James evaded the placebo effect for so long.

Nobodies saying that you're hindering progress but you don't seem happy with the results of those that used PRP? I'm not even sure what you're trying to get at here? you and many of the people on this forum have already beaten this to death with "skepticism". Either get the shot or don't bother critiquing it. Have you even tried PRP for a muscle tear before? it's basically in majority of the physiotherapy clinics out there.
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George999

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2014, 11:16:41 AM »

Thus far, aside from perhaps a single post, if that, I have been pretty much an onlooker on this topic.  But I have to say, I see this treatment as being extremely promising.  The big down side is the fact that it is being promoted by the cosmetic plastic surgery industry which is not famous for its integrity.  But it certainly seems like it has the most potential to be a cure of anything I have ever seen, including Xiaflex.  And I think we have to be very careful not to discount something just because of its origins.  The proof of course will be in the "pudding" as the saying goes and, with the plastic surgery industry promoting it ever more heavily, word of mouth will carry the news, whether that news be good or bad.  Reports on Xiaflex have been mixed, so far, with some guys really happy with it and others not so much.  In the case of PRP, the jury is still out, since it will likely be a full year or more before we get a clearer picture.  Of course it provides more length, a benefit that is reported not to be lasting.  But that is OK as long as the Peyronie's damage doesn't recur.  And on that issue, much more time will be required for the true outcome to manifest itself.  In the mean time, I haven't seen anyone so far complain about the $2K it cost them to have this procedure done.  And $2K is not a bad price when one considers the cost of Peyronie's surgery these days.   So lets just give it a chance.  If it generates a respectable track record, I would not be surprised to see some of the more renowned Peyronie's experts looking into it and perhaps even looking at potential ways to refine and improve it.  I KNOW there are a lot of stem cell scammers out there, but I am also very convinced and confident that stem cell approaches have huge potential and I think it is unfortunate that the FDA has been as hostile to stem cell experimentation as it has.  But then, I have to admit, I see the FDA as an industry trade organization, paid for by its member businesses, and not an advocate for either the citizenry in general or medical consumers in particular.  But my perception of PRP (aka Priapus Shot) is really positive at this point.
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Nemo

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2014, 12:08:13 PM »

MIKEHAWK, the vitriol of your ad hominem attacks when someone "criticizes" this treatment, in my personal opinion, undermine the seriousness with which I view this subject.  You need to learn to separate your emotions from a discussion of scientific merit.  I post a NYT article while you claim I'm "too scared" experiment on myself.  That's two different kinds of debate, and I view yours as making a weak case to support your argument. 

As always, I hope you guys are onto something - I'd love to cure my Peyronies Disease as much as you would.  But also, as always, I want to see real results in terms of reversal of deformation/reduction in plaque.  To date, I have not seen this.  Maybe my cowardice affects my eyesight to the same degree hopefulness affects yours.   

Nemo
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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2014, 01:00:36 PM »

Who said anything about a cure Nemo?

Nice to hear you chime in George.
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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2014, 02:23:38 PM »

Who said anything about a cure Nemo?

Nice to hear you chime in George.

Well, George for one: "But it certainly seems like it has the most potential to be a cure of anything I have ever seen, including Xiaflex."
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George999

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2014, 04:38:38 PM »

The KEY word of course being "potential".  The current application is still in the pilot stage, it remains to be seen what can be done with it with further development and refinement.  And if the current results even hold steady over five years, there is likely going to be considerable interest in how it can be further improved.

Nemo, I think you are doing the right thing by being cautious.  I, myself, am not running out to get this procedure done on me anytime soon.  But I am happy that those who are are so far happy with the results.  While I agree that the NYT column is a cautionary report, you have also to understand that there are caveats.  First of all, the unsuccessful studies that were done were on joints and ligaments and stuff like that, not on penises.  Those are fundamentally different types of injuries that would not respond to Pentoxifylline or CoQ10 either.  The killer fix for those kinds of injuries, I assure you, is Mangosteen juice (100% pure only).  But Mangosteen juice is useless for Peyronies.  The second issue is that clinical trials often suffer from lousy design.  I'm not saying that was the case in this situation, but it does happen and it happens often.  It especially happens when there are special interests behind the trial that have a vested interest in it failing.  Conflicts of interest, in other words, which are rife in the area of medical research these days.  So for those reasons I would take that research with more than a few grains of salt at this point.
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Nemo

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2014, 05:08:03 PM »

I think the best thing we could see on this forum is someone who has already been Doppler scanned by a Peyronies Disease specialist, with actual measured plaques, receive the PRP treatment and then get re-scanned, perhaps six months later.  If the scans show actual plaque reduction, then that will be a red letter day (and Mr. Nemo will be booking some PRP!)

As it is, we're seeing a handful of guys spending a lot of money, then (in my opinion, and my opinion only) being somewhat euphoric with the sudden "largeness" they gain and perhaps losing sight of the underlying plaque issue (which, of course, is the true problem.)  This euphoria is well and good, but not getting at the heart of the matter, which is the plaque

If we want to push forward the science, we have to embrace our own rigorous controls. Heck, I was getting better erections off of Thacker's Formula a few years ago, wreaking of garlic!, but that didn't change my Peyronies Disease, sadly. 

Nemo

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2014, 05:32:27 PM »

So .. Nemo ... if these guys are seeing REAL increases in both girth and length ... how can that be happening if the plaque remains unchanged?  Surely something has to be softening up somewhere?  In the case of PRP treatment of joints and ligaments, there really was no objective way of measuring the results, but MEASURED dimensions are pretty objective I would say.  And this is not to say that I would not agree with you regarding doppler scans.  Nothing would be more impressive than before and after dopplers.  And eventually we will surely have that since surely some of these guys that are getting PRP already have dopplers on record and eventually some of these will get those tests repeated.
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james1947

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2014, 05:54:39 PM »

First, thank you George for participating in the debate, at least the debate gets more professional.
From Nemo link:
Quote
“It’s worth trying P.R.P. before turning to surgery,” Dr. Cardone said. Most of the people in the latest studies did recover after receiving P.R.P
I will measure the results with a few parameters:
1. Erection quality
2. Gain in girth
3. Gain in length
4. Straitening
5. Plaques size and hardness.
Proposing to everyone to wait and measure the PRP based on the above parameters.

James
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MIKEHAWK

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2014, 06:36:59 PM »

Nemo, i don't see any Ad hominem being used, i'm just speaking the truth and the truth isn't politically correct get use to it.

You talk about verapamil, iontophoresis being an expensive treatments that did nothing for you, so now you hold a grudge towards anything you think is considered "expensive". News flash, it's not expensive, only depending on the country you live in, the cost of an injection for a injury site in physiotherapy is not even half the price of injecting it into your penis. Also if you don't understand what i'm trying to get at here, i'm saying that the North American culture feels really guilty in dealing with reproductive organs. so you're going to have to pay a bigger fee for someone to touch your penis while in other places it's no big deal.

It's really easy to read between the lines and see that you have a problem with the price, which you're really "EMOTIONALLY" invested in. Obviously when you use those topical treatments you're also experimenting with your body? let's not forget PRP isn't a foreign substance unlike the drugs you're rubbing onto your penis. Oh right, it's soooooo scary cause someone is using needles so now it's considered an "experiment" while you rubbing your penis with drugs isn't?

so who is really the one that's using Fallacy?
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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2014, 07:00:19 PM »

MIKEHAWK, I'm done with you. The condescending tone of your arguments reveals a lack of maturity that is neither worthy of my time, nor suitable for a constructive discussion.  Best of luck to you, bud.

George, my concern with the use of length and girth increase as a baseline for considering PRP "successful" has to do with the  fact that the very procedure revolves around injecting fluid into the penis - this will invariably result in an swelling effect, or bloating, which is precisely why it's so useful in removing wrinkles.  This is also, precisely why "Priapus" was/is being hawked on the internet as a penis enlargement technique (by the doctor himself, on penis enlargement websites).  Even he has never made any claims it would be useful, nor was it designed to treat, Peyronie's disease (I suspect because it's such a tiny market as opposed to penile enlargement.) 

On these same sites, guys got the shot, saw some temporary gains, then watched them fade away. As the Times piece pointed out, when put head to head with simple saline injections, PRP didn't stand out. 

None of this has anything to do with Peyronie's Disease. And the totality of this is why I don't view sudden increase in length/girth to represent that this is an effective treatment for Peyronies Disease. I can have Peyronies Disease, make my penis larger, and STILL have Peyronies Disease. 

Until someone reports deformity/indentation/curvature reduced to a significant degree (or better yet, sees verifiable plaque reduction), I consider this a temporary means of producing some size gain. (Which, incidentally, is exactly why it is being targeted at the penile enlargement crowd).  Don't forget, they've experimented with fat injections to enlarge the penis too - we don't consider that a Peyronie's treatment.

Nemo
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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2014, 07:07:56 PM »

And one should not forget that this usually is done combined with fairly aggressive VED therapy.
I also think like Nemo that this is just a temporary relieve of some of the symptoms but nothing substantial.
An ultrasound would be much more informative but I do not expect this to show any difference before / after.
This thread does definitely show how desperate we all are for some relieve from this condition and particularly a "quick fix" and just be done with it.
But let's try to stay objective nonetheless, as hard as it is sometimes...
I don't think it's bad that people decide to get this if available and why not make use of something that makes you feel
a little better? Just don't claim this to be more than it is, mild and temporary improvement.
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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2014, 07:31:01 PM »

Nemo, comparing PRP to fat injections is a fallacy, as fat injections have never been used for injuries unless stem cells have been extracted from it. You really need to do some research before starting an argument.
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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2014, 10:14:31 PM »

To certain participants of this thread and any others this may be directed towards:

This is a discussion board.
This is NOT an argument and personal attack board.
Those who continue to conduct themselves in the manner shown in
this thread will not be allowed to continue in the manner shown thus far.
I quote from the forum rules section listing things that are NOT ALLOWED:
"A personal attack is one that is directed at a person rather than at an idea."
Certain individuals have made this discussion personal with name calling and statements directed towards another.
In other words, you guys will clean up this discussion and leave the personal statements about others out of the mix. Follow the rules and use common sense in HOW you say something.

Many other forums allow the type of discussion that is presented below... this forum DOESN'T.

Clean this up NOW.


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LWillisjr

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2014, 08:41:21 PM »

Angus,
Thanks for stepping on this. I've been off the forum for a couple of days and missed this dialog exchange.
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George999

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2014, 06:51:19 PM »

I continue to be impressed with the reports so far and hope that those good reports continue.  And I, for one, really want to express my appreciation to all who have been willing to give this option a try.  Whether or not it works out in the end, we will all benefit by your willingness to try, so even the possibility of an eventual disappointment would have a silver lining.  So thanks to all of you from the bottom of my heart!!!

Unfortunately everything associated with the stem cell business has been tainted by a few notoriously bad actors and the fact that certain established providers could face serious financial damage from any stem cell success has not helped the situation either as they have some pretty deep pockets to be able to run interference in an attempt to head off any potential treatments.  Much of the medical industry is in the extremely lucrative perpetual treatment business, not the business of curing patients (which seriously under performs in terms of profits).  This of course does not mean that in the long term PRP is a slam dunk, far from it.  But it does mean that those of you opting for this treatment are trail blazers and the potential for success is there in a very real way and I hope and pray that all of our expectations for success are realized.  So please continue to keep us posted, the good, the bad, the ugly, but keep letting us know how this is working our for you.  Thanks ever so much,  George
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Conway96

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2014, 01:29:39 PM »

I think one of the aspects of this whole prp/priapus debate that has been extremely under discussed on this board is the patent/trademark/business side of this treatment.

Because, as we all agree, the market for penile rejuvenation is MASSIVE. Therefore, one could easily argue that if prp was so effective at penile rejuvenation, it would be a widespread, popular procedure that companies would be exploiting for massive profits. But, even despite the handful of encouraging studies, the prp field remains relatively small.

Why? The answer may lie in the naturopathic nature of this type of treatment. People tend to forget that the medical industry, like every other industry, is a business. And in business, repeat costumers are much more valuable than the customers you only serve once. So it only makes sense that if this procedure is indeed as effective as some believe, that it would be in the best interest the medical industry to discredit its validity. There is more money to be made from treating people who are sick, than curing them.

Also, given that the procedure relies on a patient's own natural blood, it might be difficult, if not impossible, to patent or trademark this procedure. Therefore, if this procedure truly is a miracle cure, it is a great threat to corporate profits - this might be why we are hearing so little about it outside this forum.

Anyways, I'm not a doctor or a lawyer. I haven't had this procedure, nor do I personally know anyone who has, so I don't have a strong opinion on it either way. But I just wanted to point out the potential corporate impact of this situation, as I believe it has a much bigger impact than people realize.
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C_lab34

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2014, 04:07:22 PM »

I just talked to a clinic nearby and I have mixed feelings. First of all, it's called the Longevity Institute and it is primarily meant for cosmetic procedures. I'm almost certain the doctor who would be administering the shot is a dermatologist. True, the penis has skin, but it isn't exactly part of his field of study. I talked with the nurse and she was enthusiastic and, well, a little too caring, if that makes sense. Having dealt with indifferent, callous, and curt doctors, it was odd, and a little suspect, to have this woman take such an interest in me. She also seemed way too confident in the shot. Without giving numbers or statistics, she just kept going on about how it repairs tissue, vessels, how it increased size, helps with Erectile Dysfunction, how men who got the shot were happy with it, etc. She even said that if the first shot doesn't give me the desired results, I can get a second one for free. And how they won't just give me the shot and then kick me out and say "good luck". She emphasized how they will stay in touch and work with me to get better.

Now, on one hand it was nice to be given that much attention and interest. On the other, something about it just felt off. Not as though it's an outright scam but it was just a little too slick, if that makes sense. How is this not first line treatment of Erectile Dysfunction/peyronies if it's so effective? Why aren't urologists and sexual health specialists taking this up? Why is it readily and enthusiastically offered by fringe anti aging clinics staffed with low level internists and cosmetic surgeons with absolutely no background or prior medical training in urology and sexual health? The reason I have not written the entire thing off is that I believe the improvements some of the members here have reported. It's not sure fire, but I wish we had more accounts and more science behind it. It's in between BS penis enlargement hoax/ boomer anti aging voodoo and legitimate treatment for Erectile Dysfunction/peyronies. I can't decide.

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C_lab34

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2014, 04:19:46 PM »

Conway,

             I think you raise an important point. Nevertheless, I want to say a couple of things, not to rebut you, but to complicate the picture you've presented. One is that the prp shot for the penis has indeed been copyrighted. It's called the Priapus shot, and the name and the procedure is owned by Dr. Charles Runels, the man who, let's say, "invented" it. That means that doctors who want to learn how to do the shot learn from him, and that he gets a cut of the profit from every shot performed.

Also, my main issue with conspiratorial thinking, (just to be clear, I'm not calling you paranoid or wacko or anything) along the lines of the medical industry suppressing cheaper treatment that would reduce their profits, is that it is way too simple and easy as an explanation, but far too complex and unimaginable in reality. I just don't see how people could coordinate that kind of plot at so many different levels to insure that a type of treatment or a piece of information could be buried or eliminated. I think it's more accidental than that. The medical industry is made up of all kinds of competing and contradictory interests, and doctors aren't required to keep up with everything that happens in the realm of health and medicine. Also, doctors can be individually biased and presumptuous when it comes to alternative treatments without being directly motivated to silence the truth for their own gain. PRP is a questionable line of treatment that may have some benefits for some people, but it is best approached with caution. I don't think it's at the level of miracle cure waiting to be unleashed yet.
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KAC

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2014, 04:49:58 PM »

How is this not first line treatment of Erectile Dysfunction/peyronies if it's so effective? Why aren't urologists and sexual health specialists taking this up? Why is it readily and enthusiastically offered by fringe anti aging clinics staffed with low level internists and cosmetic surgeons with absolutely no background or prior medical training in urology and sexual health?

And that, is exactly why I have not even considered this procedure.  I've followed the discussion here, and interested, but that's as far as I'm willing to go.  I really think we need some medical professionals weighing in on this discussion.
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rellisacct

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2014, 05:23:18 PM »

The only thing that I can add to this conversation is that I had an elite urologist from Wake Forest University who performed this procedure on me. He is part of the team that is working on rebuilding various urological tissues, including penile erectile tissue. He believed that this procedure had some merit to it and that made me believe.

I can say that it did help a fair amount before I had another sexual injury, but it was not a miracle cure. The science behind this procedure makes a lot of sense and has been performed on various other tissues for years, but I will agree with C_lab that some of the clinics that are offering this procedure raises a red flag for me. I have called a half dozen in the last week and they seem more than anxious to get me in there, which for some reason does not inspire confidence.

That being said, the procedure is extremely simple to perform and even a basic nurse 3 months out of school could do it.
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james1947

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2014, 06:27:39 PM »

I am 100% with you Conway96 on this subject.
PRP is  mainstream treatment in cosmetics, so why not for Peyronies?
We need tissues regeneration for this disease, same as for cosmetics.
And I will mention again, no one is forced or guided by the forum to make PRP injections.
A few forum members decided to make PRP and document the results.
It is up to every individual to do or not to do PRP shots.

James
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UrsusMinor

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2014, 02:09:43 PM »

On Apr 24, Nemo wrote:

>>"I'll let the New York Times say it better than I can ... the results from PRP have not lived up to the hype. In fact, saline injections appear to be just as effective in most cases."

I have to say that this summary seems to me to completely misrepresent what the NY Times article says. The only injuries studied where saline injections were just as effective were cases of Achilles tendonopathy, which is a certain kind of overuse injury. Calling that one study on a particular kind of injury "most cases" is rather misleading.

In the same NY Times article, it goes on to say:

Why, then, has P.R.P. received so much praise from early adopters, and what are we to make of results like those from yet another report in the same issue of The British Journal of Sports Medicine, in which P.R.P. improved the healing of man-made lesions in lab rats’ tendons?
 
“This seems contradictory,” admitted Robert-Jan de Vos, a researcher at the Erasmus University medical center in the Netherlands and lead author of the Achilles tendinopathy study. But, he said, there are fundamental differences between overuse injuries, such as tendinopathies, and acute wounds, like those created in animal experiments. In acute injuries, the body initiates a robust healing response, which, Dr. de Vos said, P.R.P. may intensify. But in overuse injuries, the healing process is often blunted, and P.R.P. seems unable to augment it much.
 
That’s only a theory, however. In general, the mechanisms by which P.R.P. succeeds or fails remain unexplained. “We believe more work on the basic science needs to be undertaken,” a consensus statement about P.R.P. issued late last year by the International Olympic Committee said...


Is Peyronie's an overuse issue, like tendonitis? I doubt it.

PRP is not primarily a cosmetic procedure; it is primarily a musculoskeletal therapy. There are very few large trials, but there has been a considerable degree of scientific investigation. See, for example:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2682411/

So, has PRP been shown scientifically to be ineffective? Well, for one particular thing. It has at the same time in the same issue of the same journal been shown to be quite effective at healing another type of injury.

Overall, there is more evidence in favor of PRP than against it, but it hasn't be studied well enough to draw conclusions. With, I'd bet that we'll see the same pattern of results shown above: Effective for some things, ineffective for others.

As to Peyronie's, who knows? The results from those on this forum who have undergone it strike me as a promising approach, but not a miracle cure for everyone.

But aren't the results people on this forum just anecdotal evidence? Yep.

And as a good friend of my always says, "The plural of 'Anecdote' is 'Data."
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C_lab34

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2014, 02:22:48 PM »

This form of treatment could be beneficial for different types of injury and inflammation. I still wonder why, as the basic idea has been around for awhile, urologists and sexual health specialists have not caught on. I outlined some reasons below but it still perplexes me. Also I want to make it clear that I'm not in any way questioning the intelligence or the integrity of anyone on this board who takes a chance with this treatment. Despite my reservations, I'd get the shot tomorrow if I had the money. I also wonder what real advancements could be made down the line, and whether or not it's a blind alley and a dead end road.
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Nemo

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2014, 03:00:50 PM »

UrsusMinor, I think your points are fair.  Perhaps PRP is more effective in some applications than in others.  But what I think we can both agree on is that there simply isn't enough hard science to know anything for sure.  The lack of its adoption (or even interest) by the leading practitioners in the field of Peyronie's Disease, combined with its primarily being accessible through the kind of clinics C_lab34 describes does not inspire me with hope that it's the Peyronies Disease treatment we're all looking for. 

What is easily measured, and will provide hard data, is when some of our guys who are getting the shots start getting post-shot scans to compare with pre-shot scans.  If they show obvious reduction in plaque, then that's all I need to know - I'll get the shots myself.  I really hope they do.  Until then, anecdotal reports of girth and length gains and better erection quality, etc., don't have me convinced.

Hopefully, we'll have scan data soon. 

Nemo
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UrsusMinor

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #39 on: May 29, 2014, 06:54:03 PM »

Hi, Nemo--

I agree completely. And if I decide to go down this road at any point--I don't have plans right now--I'll ask the doctor if we can get some before-and-after plaque evidence. (I'll also ask him how much extra that will cost me!)

Glancing through the literature, PRP has been tried for a great many things...and that's part of the problem. Too many small studies, with too many different conditions. The thing is, although it may make some money for the actual practitioners (the folks giving the injections), PRP isn't exactly a goldmine at the industrial scale. The only 'big money' is in the PRP centrifuges, and that isn't big money compared to, say, a patentable blockbuster drug. Therefore there is damn little funding available for PRP studies.

Sad to say, even at the universities nowadays it's mostly about patents. When Jonas Salk was asked why he didn't try to patent the polio vaccine, he told Edward R Murrow, "Would you patent the Sun?" But the world of research has changed. And not generally, in my opinion, for the better.
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chandnitare

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2014, 05:04:00 AM »

Hi,

Anyone knows PRP clinic in India?

Best regards,

Chand
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chandnitare

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2014, 01:00:08 AM »

Hi all,

I have got a reply from a Thailand Clinic (http://www.laser-surgery-bangkok.com), lol they are suggesting to do it together!

Best regards,

Chand

..................................Below is the msg......................................................................

Dear Mr. .......

1.PRP treatment for Peyronie's disease involve extracting the growth factors
from your own blood platelets and injecting in to involved penis. This may
need more than 1 treatment at 1 month interval. The cost is $1700 under
local and $2000 under general per treatment. The procedure take  less than 1
hour.
2. The even better alternative is using a combination of PRP and Autologous
Fat Stem Cell, The cost is $12000usd
There is no recovery period.

Regards,
Kunachak MD
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 7:53 PM
[email protected]




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james1947

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2014, 01:27:19 AM »

Chand.

A real ripoff in my opinion.
See prices in the US.

James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
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chandnitare

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2014, 04:55:05 AM »

James,

Until now Bali is the best offering the lowest!

Best regards,

Chand
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UrsusMinor

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2014, 07:15:34 PM »

Yeah--plus you get to go to Bali.
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james1947

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2014, 08:08:57 PM »

Depend how much will cost you to fly to Bali :)
The stay is no problem, $35 you can get a clean room for two, breakfast, air-condition, television, refrigerator and swimming pool. :)
Food/drinks are also not expensive :)

James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
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chandnitare

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2014, 09:31:12 PM »

For me:

Bali : PRP one shot + flight + hotel+ others = USD 900Max

Thailand: same items = USD 2500 Lowest
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NeoV

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2014, 05:38:59 AM »

That's so odd. Japanese clinic here also wants to inject fat cells. I don't know what to think of it.
Bali here I come?
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chandnitare

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2014, 10:56:05 AM »

Hi All,

I need help!

I have found a doctor here who is doing PRP for skin, hair etc. He very popular for this and originally a dermatologist and VD specialist. I talked to him but he never did it for Peyronies Disease. Tomorrow I shall see him with some docs to show that PRP is being used for Peyronies Disease.

Any document u can give me in this regards?

Best regards,

chand
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aazmaish

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Re: Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2014, 08:50:42 PM »

Hi Chand .
pla inform if u had a successful meeting with the doctor reg PRP shots .. we r curious to know ..
 :-[.
thanks ..
Aazmaish
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