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Author Topic: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor  (Read 7271 times)

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optimist

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Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« on: January 18, 2014, 01:06:17 PM »

I'm not sure if this is right discussion board as my question cuts across causes and treatments. I read that Peyronies (which I have had for ~10 months) is related to Dupuytren's contracture which involves the thickening and shortening of tendons in the hand. (I haven't been formally diagnosed but my general practitioner said that he thinks it's related to my Peyronies and I appear to have classic visual symptoms but thankfully my fingers are not contracted).  My question is whether treatments are different for those of us that have signs of Dupuytren's?  Does it point to a more specific underlying driver that should be treated?  I only found one post that mentioned Dupuytren's.  Thanks
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Norm

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2014, 06:04:18 PM »

The fibrotic condition that causes both are the same. But, the treatments are vastly different. I don't know of any medications, supplements nor therapies for Dupuytrens. Very simply, when it gets bad enough to bother you, they go in and snip some things loose. I have it. My doctors have told me there is nothing can be done except surgery, so you wait until you need it.
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optimist

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2014, 06:17:53 PM »

Many thanks for the reply, Norm.  I just can't help but think that related underlying cause points to something more systemic that should have some common or related treatment but if if "wait and snip" is the approach to Dupuytren's, then clearly that is not the approach I want to take to Peyronies!
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Norm

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2014, 06:24:03 PM »

They are definitely systemic. There is also lederhosen syndrome(sp?) which attacks the feet. Peyronie's is the only one of the three which seems to have any possibility of alternative treatments. I call this trio the Evil Cousins. The worst, of course, is Peyronies Disease.
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liber

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2014, 06:42:00 PM »

I've had two Xiaplex courses to two fingers with some success. As for Peyronie's being the worst I'm not sure? I also have Ledderhose that can lead to walking with supports (crutches) due to the pain. Surgery is a very bad option for this condition as it can come back more aggresively in supposedly 80% of cases.

I think it unwise to assume what is worse, it depends on the individual.
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Norm

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2014, 07:36:09 PM »

I apologize for that comment. I was just speaking from the position that we are all here because of Peyronies Disease. Obviously, we are greatly concerned about our penises. That does not belittle the fact that being able to walk or to grasp is not equally important.
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liber

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2014, 07:44:38 PM »

No offence taken Norm. Hope things are good with you post surgery.
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Old Man

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2014, 08:12:17 PM »

Norm:

Yes, Dupuytren's Contracture in ones hand can and will cause just about as much pain as the Peyronies Disease in the penis. Several years ago, I had my left relieved of the DC constrictions only now to come back and just as bad. It makes even typing a chore sometimes when the ''drawing'' condition hits. It just causes the fingers to curl up and won't open all the way stretch out until the mess is cut loose. Healing time is a bitch too as even wringing out a bath cloth gets to be very difficult to do.

At least, Peyronies Disease does not ''cripple'' ones hand where cooking, washing clothes and general house work requires the use of ones hands. I do the home work now that I have retired and my wife is still working at a local university as a piano instructor. I need to protect her hands and that makes a good living for us! I not taking anything away from Peyronies Disease problems, just pointing the correlation between the three maladies.

Anyway, each of the three Evil Cousins does require a very difficult degree of patience. So, I don't envy anyone who has either of these cousins. I have all three which makes for some really bad times in my life!!

Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

optimist

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2014, 11:23:37 PM »

Norm and Old Man,  I'm not familiar with Ledderhose so I will look into it.  But it did develop Plantar Fasciitis two years ago in my left foot that I associated with running. I went through physical therapy that included cortisone through a heat transfer that did nothing. Finally someone suggested Good Feet inserts. While there was divided opinion on their efficacy (and cost was $199) it turned out that they stopped the problem to the point where I didn't need to use them.  Then a year later after I started downhill skiing, I developed a "hot spot" on the ball of the same left foot (a neuroma I think it is called) and decided to try to use the Good Feet inserts in my ski boots and it immediately solved the problem. So I don't know if the plantar symptoms might be related to peyronies and Dupuytren's and this "Ledderhose" but in case it is, you might look into these inserts as they definitely have helped my foot issues.  Hope that this is useful and appreciate the conversation.
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liber

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2014, 07:14:23 AM »

Ledderhose and Plantar Fasciitis are the same condition.
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james1947

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2014, 06:35:04 PM »

Optimist

Can you give us some more information regarding "Good Feet inserts"
Personally I don't know nothing abut them and interested to understand.

James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

optimist

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2014, 12:50:57 PM »

Hi James1947. As I said in my post, my plantar fasciitis was non responsive to everything that I tried including physical therapy that also involved cortisone (I didn't try acupuncture although I am very open to that). Someone that is a runner suggested that he knew multiple people that had had good luck with "Good Feet" (www.goodfeet.com). I went to the store (they are a franchise retail chain) and while the sell made me a little skeptical (standing on some kind of surface that left outline and imprint of my feet as I recall) the salesman selected the appropriate model for me (these are not custom but over the counter but evidently there are some range of options). They were expensive at $199 so I did some reading on the web and found plenty of skepticism and even alarm in some quarters; but I also found testimonials of people for whom they worked, so as I had been miserable for more than 6 months, I decided to give them a try. At first the pressure that I could feel from them on the bottom of my foot was significant but in many ways it felt good in deep massage kind of way and I got more and more used to it as I wore them. As I mentioned in the previous post, they worked for me. I wore them in all of my shoes for two months (including running as well as work) and the pain was definitely gone. I then cut back wearing them and some pain returned so I continued using them for another few months and then did not need to any more (I would use them for running occasional because I actually like the way they feel). Last year I developed a "hot spot" on the ball of my left foot from skiing so decided to give it a try in my ski boots the next time out and the hot spot was gone: clearly the inserts were redistributing the pressure of my foot on the bottom of the boot and it worked. I now leave them in my ski boots.  The website above is very commercial so I will try to find some more analytical info and share it as there is, as I said, plenty of skepticism about being both overpriced and inappropriate in many cases.  Hope that this helps, Optimist
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liber

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2014, 01:34:36 PM »

Inserts for Ledderhose/Plantar Fasciitis/Plantar Fibroma (all the same condition) are normally made for a specific individual by a Podiatrist. They are custom made as the position of the nodule is different for each person. The idea is to alleviate pressure at a specific point IE: where there is a build up of scar tissue.
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lenzi

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2014, 03:07:56 PM »

My dad has had surgery on both hands for Dupuytren's, he started having symptoms of that condition in his 60's or maybe his 70s.

My hands seem perfectly fine but I've had peyronies since 2005.

For whatever that's worth.
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welshwales

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2014, 06:37:44 PM »

Wow I had no idea that plantar fasciitis was related to dupuytren's contracture and peyronies! Although I was aware of the dupuytren's contracture and Peyronies Disease connection. I have plantar fasciitis in both feet and need to do 90mins of physio a day to keep mobile, medical inserts are really useful too. I also had a fibroid mass removed in surgery from a finger, my ortho consultant said it was the same sort of tissue found in dupuytren's. It is very interesting that they are all associated. Surely there must be some kind of underlying condition to cause all of this.

If dupuytren's contracture is hereditary (from web.md: Dupuytren’s is hereditary.
“The disease runs in families," says surgeon Taizoon Baxamusa, a spokesperson for the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons and an associate clinical professor of orthopaedic surgery at the University of Illinois in Chicago. This doesn't mean that because your father had Dupuytren's, that you'll automatically develop it too. But your risk is definitely higher, according to Segalman.) as is plantar fasciitis, then I guess it stands to reason that peyronie's is also hereditary. And if something is hereditary, there will be specific factors, genetic predisposition or some such, which may be observable given a big enough study group. Common genetic traits in sufferers could perhaps be isolated and treatments developed? Perhaps I'm babbling because it's late, but it seems to make sense to me.

I wonder how many of us have plantar fasciitis and dupuytren's contracture running in our families? Could we also have peyronie's running in our families? Maybe when I next have a drinking session with my dad I'll ask him!
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Norm

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2014, 07:32:43 PM »

I know exactly when I noticed my Peyronies Disease. It was a shock the first time I saw my bent erection! But I don't remember when I first noticed the knots in the palm of my left hand. I suppose I need to be on the lookout for foot problems as this fibrosis of ours is definitely systemic. I am not aware of any other men in my family having these ailments, but I certainly need to discuss these possibilities with my sons!
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boomerang

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2014, 07:26:06 PM »

Risk factors I would say do tend to run in Families.  The symptoms can be spread across the family or concentrated in one (Unlucky) person I suspect.

Related diseases and conditions which I strongly suspect.

Dupytren's (I have it)
Ledderhose (Like dupytrens in the feet, Mine is having a good try but I am holding it off)
Hypodontia (Missing adult teeth from birth) (I have 2 missing in the front a close family member has 12 missing and has had to have 12 titanium implants and replacement teeth)
Rounded Shoulders ( I have this and read about this being linked via some Scandinavian research which also linked the hypodontia.)
Having Viking genes (Dupytren's is sometimes called Vikings disease)


These are highly simplified comments for the purpose of keeping the post from being too long.
I also suspect thick sticky blood may be to blame for inflammation and fibrosis.
I believe our blood has tight viscosity boundaries and anything outside these will cause inflammation and other problems.

I have heard of thick blood being called Icelandic blood by medical staff. Someone I know with Icelandic blood has major fibrosis problems.
Of course any underlying disease will cause inflammation to increase and will thicken the blood too.

Theory for discussion. Could it be that the oily fish diet made the Vikings blood too thin originally so Vikings evolved blood which would be thicker given that diet.  However with our modern diet devoid of oily fish Viking blood is now too thick and outside normal viscosity limits?

I have changed my diet and now take high dose Omega 3 oil every day.

I also avoid dairy, grain and sugar as much as possible.
I avoid green vegetables having found out from a specialist centre in London's St Thomas' Hospital that vitamin K is mainly found in green veg and causes the blood to thicken.  Warnings are given to people on warfarin not to vary the amount of green veg they eat because the  warfarin dose is balanced against vitamin K intake.

Fructose is also something I avoid having found out from a specialist at University College London Hospital that we are all intolerant to fructose.
Fructose is found in fruit cordial and is widely used as a sweetener.  It is derived from corn syrup I believe.
Fruit seems OK though as it does have other counteracting chemicals I have read.

I also take Neprinol, Serrapeptase and Lycopene every day.
I found the lycopene reduced the inflammation in my joints greatly.

I still had IBS after all this but found a probiotic called Align taken daily actually worked (the only one I have ever found to work).

Hope this helps


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ADF

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2014, 05:23:23 PM »

I got Dupuytren's first and found out when I went to a hand specialist doctor since my middle finger on my right hand was bent inward. then after that I noticed my bent erection and went to my family doc who said the Dupuytren's and the Peyronies are related somehow.
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UrsusMinor

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2014, 02:17:13 AM »

I avoid green vegetables having found out from a specialist centre in London's St Thomas' Hospital that vitamin K is mainly found in green veg and causes the blood to thicken.  Warnings are given to people on warfarin not to vary the amount of green veg they eat because the  warfarin dose is balanced against vitamin K intake

Umm, well, let's just say that I question this. Yes, doctors who put people on Warfarin do indeed want everything to be in controlled, pharmaceutical doses, and don't want things like normal food interfering.

Vitamin K1 is found in greens, and is important for coagulation. But I don't think the 'thickness' of the blood has anything to do with anything we are talking about here.

Vitamin K2 is critical for pushing calcium into bones, and also keeping calcium out of soft tissues. So a lot of people (including me, after having read endless papers on the topic), think that K2 is one of the most important nutrients you need to keep tissues from calcifying--and, in the early stages, from forming scars or plaque.

As far as I can tell, the coagulation aspects of K1 are unrelated to Peyronie's. But the anti-calcification aspects of K2 are definitely related.

And, although it is related to heart disease rather than Peyronie's, one of the most important studies on K2 is sort-of Viking: The Dutch who eat more high-K2 cheese have massively less calcification of their arteries, and less cardiovascular problems.

So, we are free to disagree, but I think your assessment of things is 100% backwards. K1 doesn't have much, if anything, to do with Peyronie's, and K2 I consider to be an important therapy. At present, my K2 intake is 20 times the national average, and if I could conveniently take it higher, I would.
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Norm

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2015, 07:57:58 PM »

Peyronies Disease and Dupuytrens are evil cousins. The same malady that we have in our system which causes Peyronies Disease also causes Dupuytren's and Ledderhosen Syndrome. The advice I would give you is to read, read and read. This forum is probably the world's foremost authority on Peyronies Disease. For sure, we have a lot more experience with it than our doctors do. Ask your questions here after reading. Someone will help if they can. Btw, what is PDI telling you to take?
Norm
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hairpie28

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Re: Dupuytren's contracture as Risk Factor
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2015, 07:40:14 PM »

Thank Norm, 

So, from PDI and other research, Vitamin E, C, CoQ10, Inflamazyme, MSM,(sulfer)  Neprinol, "Scar Free" which is a mouth spray, and Paba, :  CP copper syrum ,  and DMSO/MSM  gel, which are both topical.   

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