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Author Topic: Hard-flaccid as cause  (Read 24367 times)

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damian

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Hard-flaccid as cause
« on: May 26, 2013, 02:47:00 PM »

It's just a theory of mine, but could eventually hard-flaccid cause the never ending healing cycle of peyronie's? Many guys here have CPPS/HF, and HF is proven to be caused by muscular malfunction , which can be triggered by injuries to the pelvic floor, but most often  just by stress. I'm in stress alot, and literally can feel how my penis shrivels up just by thinking about peyronie's. One of the main issues of HF is the lack of blood flow to the penis. Low blood flow can or will cause inflammation/fibrosis(?) Maybe we are causing this awful cycle just by stressing about it? Maybe it can be just one of many triggers of peyronie's.

My mother has problem with circulation and every winter, due to bad blood flow to her feet, her toes get painfully inflamed and swollen. Can there be a relation or are this different kind of inflammations?
I'm doing stretching exercises for cpps and they seem to help me with my HF. My penis looks healthier more often, but I'm still getting HF.
I noticed that my peyronie's/scar tissue symptoms gets less when the HF is not so bad.
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Sta

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2013, 08:36:06 AM »

It's just a theory of mine, but could eventually hard-flaccid cause the never ending healing cycle of peyronie's? Many guys here have CPPS/HF, and HF is proven to be caused by muscular malfunction , which can be triggered by injuries to the pelvic floor, but most often  just by stress.

What is HF?

What was earlier - CPPS or Peyronies Disease?

<Post modified my moderator, posting of full quotes not nexessary>
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damian

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2013, 10:11:19 AM »

HF is Hard-flaccid, hard flaccid is caused by cpps. I had an injury during sex 8 months ago. I developed HF/CPPS two or three weeks later. Way too many guys are complaining about HF here. It can't be unrelated.
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skunkworks

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2013, 10:15:20 AM »

HF is proven to be caused by muscular malfunction

Link to reference for that claim please?
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Sta

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2013, 10:34:22 AM »

<Posting full quotes not allowed - modified by moderator>


So you got Peyronies Disease symptoms BEFORE CPPS-related pain appeared? It is for sure that chronic stress is a starter and THE FUEL for both CPPS and Peyronies Disease
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damian

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2013, 10:44:28 AM »

My theory for my issue is that after I injured my penis, I developed CPPS from stressing. I was really scared about what's going to happen with my penis. CPPS caused as I said hard-flaccid and that caused lack of blood flow. Than the lack of blood flow caused slow healing from the injury. Now, 8 months later, I have some lumps causing indentations and are still painful. I know my theory is not HIGHLY scientific and therefore not very popular on this forum, but I'm pretty sure that there is a connection.

I was diagnosed with prostatitis too. I never had this before.
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Sta

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2013, 10:50:39 AM »

That makes point. In my view the chain is following:

1. Stress
2. Muscle spasm in pelvis
3. Myofascial syndrome the became somatic and triggered by more stress (you got in this fatal "closed loop")
4. Prostatitis (i doubt you really have it, it is just symptoms caused by pelvic muscels disfunction)
5. Autoimmune error from changing on muscels and fascias
6. Peyronies Disease

Same story as mine, but my stress was caused not by injury but from psychosocial distress.

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Born 1985, Peyronie's since 2011/12. Lost approximately 3 cm of length and seriously bottlenecked.

damian

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2013, 10:51:28 AM »

Skunkworks if you are interested read the HF forum. I don't have any scientific research to show you, but there is enough evidence that HF has a muscular cause. Many guys there got rid of HF by going to PT and trigger point therapy.
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skunkworks

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2013, 10:54:25 AM »

There is a hard flaccid forum?

But yeah, don't claim something is proven unless there is actual scientific evidence backing it.
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Obsie

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2013, 11:00:00 AM »

Causation does not mean causality. CPPS is a complex disease, in fact it is not well understood, just as Peyronies Disease.

-The fact that one occurs after another does not prove anything. Comorbidity is extremely frequent, for instance you can have ADHD and depression without those two diseases being related. Or, if you will, flu and diarrhea.
- The # of guys here who describe symptom X or disease Y is not a proof of anything, it is at best a hint.

Science is not based on assumptions and feelings. It is based on facts.

Your theory is interesting, and stress does plays a role in CPPS, in fact CPPS is also called "stress prostatitis". But any comparison with your mother's cold feet is probably misleading, although cold feet can often be related to stress (such as Raynaud's symptoms). However, if blood flow plays a role in her swollen toes (by contraction of the vessels), the mechanism is quite different with the penis, and fibrosis cannot be induced by low blood flow. Otherwise your mother's toes would be made of stone now, assuming she had the condition for years.

The correlation between HF and Peyronies Disease is simpler : sex with a hard flaccid penis puts it at a greater risk of mechanical torsion. In the erect penis, blood under pressure obviously acts as a scaffolding of sorts. Try folding a hose with the water coming out. It requires a greater strength.
Mechanical torsion is likely to end with Peyronies Disease, but not with everyone.

@ Sta: it is prostatitis. That's just the name of inflammation of the prostate, whatever the cause is. (Btw I sent you a pm)
But I really don't understand your #5
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damian

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2013, 11:08:15 AM »

Yeah skunkworks, there is a HF forum. Many guys are describing similar symptoms like the peyronie's ones (shortening, pain, curvature and even lumps). I think I read somewhere that it is proven. If I ever find it again I'll post it here.
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damian

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2013, 11:13:40 AM »

I don't know if anyone here noticed before the onset of your problems with your penis, how the penis reacts just by thinking of injuries to the penis or scrotum. Many times, just by thinking that someone is going to hit you in your genitals, the penis would turtle instantly. I think that the constant fear about my penis caused permanent muscle spasms in my pelvis. And I got in this "closed loop" as Sta said.
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Obsie

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2013, 11:28:30 AM »

Many times, just by thinking that someone is going to hit you in your genitals, the penis would turtle instantly.
Ushtipack, you really must be under a lot of stress! No matter how hard I think of being hit in the genitals, my penis stays the same.  :) You need to relax a bit, brother !
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damian

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2013, 11:33:07 AM »

Obsie, I said before the onset, that means with a healthy pelvic floor/penis or whatever. My penis doesn't react anymore on anything. Not even on temperature changes.
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damian

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2013, 11:39:10 AM »

Sta, are you on therapy with your CPPS?
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Obsie

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2013, 01:58:12 PM »

Ushtipack, I sent you a PM
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damian

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2013, 02:41:59 PM »

I found a poll or however it is called of HF symptoms. Who's interested may take a look.
http://hfi.wufoo.com/widgets/h7l0b7/

or here Hard Flaccid Data
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phatcat

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2013, 03:34:26 AM »

I would not say HF is proven only because proven implies that a study was undertaken, but i would say that HF is caused by tight muscles.

To say that though we would have to define HF symptoms.    For me HF means that when not aroused (not erect) the penis is hard and the same consistency of a fully or semi- engorged penis.  The condition usually goes away or gets better when lying down and should definitely get better when urinating. 

If the HF gets better when urinating then that CLEARLY points to a muscular condition. The pelvic muscles loosen when you pee, that is well known in the medical community.  to test this you can reach down and feel changes in your pelvic floor muscles when you tense them then relax them.  If you have HF you can feel the changes when you pee or lie down vs. when you stand up.   If the muscles are tight even when you pee you probably need to massage them to stretch them out and you need to do some diaphragm breathing while lying down to calm the muscles.

Obsie:  The ushtipak probably does need to relax.  HF is most likely a psychosomatic condition, so relaxation would be important.  When the muscles relax the HF is gone.  Tense muscles are often caused by stress.    That's why yoga and meditation are often recommended online by guys dealing with HF.  They are both therapeutic in terms of relaxing the body and mind and stretching the muscles.

I supose a HF could happen of one had severe peyronies surrounding the entire penis but i think that would be pretty clear to the person with the peyronies and they would not call it Hard flaccid.  while HF is not PROVEN to be muscular....it IS muscular
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nady

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2014, 11:36:09 AM »

hi there, I have the same thing from year ago, I have seen the a lot of doctors and same as you , but I start read some thing new , kegels-kegels revers , it worked for some guys no time .
, will search deep in that and try and feedback you by the results
if you still a live keep going there is alot of hope . if some thing happened with any one have the same thing please feed us back
and I thing its muscular
..
thank U.
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NeoV

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2014, 11:44:42 PM »

My hard flaccid goes away after resting from masturbation, usually takes a little over a week. First week I usually have an increase in hard flaccid, then once the inflammation subsides and my prostate feels better it goes away. Ejaculation can and does cause hard flaccid and non-infectious prostatitis.

This article here --> Frequent ejaculation associated free radical ... [Med Hypotheses. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

I also posted this article in my cause of peyronies thread.

emasculated

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2014, 08:52:16 PM »

My experience is Hard flaccid since June last year almost constantly. It's always hard and shrunken and only very rarely relaxes to it's former state. I basically get psychologically traumatized each time I look at it. When I first noticed it I thought it was just shrunken permanently.
Anyways.. Anti-inflammatories get rid of it in my case. E.g. if I take Ibuprofen it will soften up quickly for the duration. When I started Potaba after a week it went away. HF for me is always accompanied by burning and needle like pain / crawling sensation and general discomfort in the penis. And I also get pain in the perineum area.
But I DO NOT believe this is CPPS. I do believe you guys get this wrong. The direction of pain is another.
The penis is inflamed, the tunica albuginea, which is a good definition of Peyronies Disease (that's the start of Peyronies).
Then the pain travels (of course) to the perineum area.
I can actually feel this where the pain starts and then after a while it goes in this direction.
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basebend

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2014, 10:11:48 PM »

emasculated:

I thought I was the only one whose pain also traveled to the perineum area. The muscles that resides right below the penis are the bulbocavernosus and ischiocavernosus. It feels as if something is wrong with those muscles and I'm not sure if it's peyronies. I've had pain there for 2 years and its not completely inflexible so i'm not sure if there is any actual scarring. Would this at all categorize your experience as well?
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skunkworks

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2014, 11:01:57 PM »

That sort of pain sounds more like prostatitis.
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This is an emotionally destructive condition, we all have it, let's be nice to each other.

Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

NeoV

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2014, 07:41:42 AM »

That's pretty interesting basebend, look at my above study.

I'm pretty sure any kind of muscular dysfunction in the penis/perineum can cause apoxia and free radical build up, and therefore inflammation in the penis itself and certainly in the veins and arteries of the penis. All of this could cause or increase the chances of scarring in the penis, atherosclerosis, or even lymphatic problems I would imagine. I've given up trying to put a label on it (though we still have to try). The pain I used to have is now gone, and I know what helps and what factors influence it for me personally. I know I had prostate pain, pelvic pain, penis pain, something like Peyronie's, enlarged penile veins, urethral pain, all of it, and it was ALL connected and would happen at the same time. When I focus too hard on labeling these symptoms as one issue, I have a hard time committing to fixing them and doing what it takes to rid myself of symptoms. Be willing to try it all, and treat it all!

phatcat

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2014, 01:43:27 AM »

If you guys want to see if you have a pelvic floor hyperactivity problem check the muscles with your hand for tightness.  The muscles are between your legs.  If the muscles are hard (tight) and you notice that they feel tight all the time, you have a pelvic floor hyperactivity.   Your job is then to relax those muscles.

It's simple reach down in between your legs.  What you are feeling is muscle. If it's hard and tight you have a pelvic floor hyperactivity.  It's a well know condition, but research down on it is mostly for women.  Rape victims commonly experience pelvic floor hyperactivity for obvious reasons. This is not a disease. it's more akin to a sports injury. 

You guys have to focus on relaxing your pelvic floor muscles.  This is not going to be done overnight and it'snot going to be easy. Anal muscles are pelvic floor muscles. for me they are the easiest to relax and contract.  They were always tight for me and i had to work on keeping them relaxed (i clenched a lot).   Masturbation and sex tightens pelvic floor muscles. IF you have  pelvic floor hyperactivity, you might give up masturbation or sex for a while.  You can read all kinds of information on pelvic floor hyperactivity online. If anyone wants to talk let me know.  I'm recovering.  It's slow but i can feel the physical changes in my muscles as they relax.
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james1947

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Re: Hard-flaccid as cause
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2014, 06:40:01 AM »

What about Dr. Franklin?
Stevew87 have a very good opinion about him.
You can find him at:
ACPCT Center - Treatment of Curved and Bent Penis

James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
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