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Author Topic: VED protocol...please help!  (Read 5924 times)

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yyy

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VED protocol...please help!
« on: July 09, 2012, 05:07:29 PM »

HI everyone

I'm trying to follow Jackp advices about VED 1 cylinder protocol,but as Im not English I can't really understand some points...

Firstable: I have a classic VED, exactly like this one: http://www.vedpumps.com/firma-medical-ved-pump.htm

This is the method:

"Start with a good seal and pump to about 80% erect. Hold for 15-20 seconds then release, (do not break seal). Do this for about 5 minutes.

Over the next 5 minutes pump up to a 100% erection using the pump hold and release method.

The next 5 minutes keep pumping to 100% erection using the pump and hold. Caution do not over pump to the point of pain. At this point if you have shrinkage you may see some gain. After a few weeks"


My questions:

- what does it mean "Hold for 15-20 seconds then release, (do not break seal)" ????

To lose the erection I always have to remove the small black tube from the cylinder to get out the pressure from inside; is this the "release" or is it "breaking the seal"??

- "Over the next 5 minutes pump up to a 100% erection using the pump hold and release method"

It means that I pump from 0% to 100% and then I remove the small tube? If so, I don't understand the third step 'cos it sounds the same thing to me

Thank you
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james1947

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Re: VED protocol...please help!
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2012, 07:40:59 PM »

yyy

To your questions:

Quote
what does it mean "Hold for 15-20 seconds then release, (do not break seal)" ?
After holding the pressure for 15 - 20 seconds, push the pump release button to release the pressure. Don't break the seal it means don't move the cylinder itself from the place that the cylinder will continue to be sealed.

Quote
To lose the erection I always have to remove the small black tube from the cylinder to get out the pressure from inside; is this the "release" or is it "breaking the seal"??
I don't have the VED you have posted the link to, but all the VED's I see have a release buttun and this one should be used to lose the erection by losing the pressure in the cylinder.

Quote
"Over the next 5 minutes pump up to a 100% erection using the pump hold and release method"
It means keep the pressure for 5 minutes and release from the release button.

This what I am doing in all the steps above.

James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

jackp

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Re: VED protocol...please help!
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2012, 06:24:27 AM »

yyy

Each of the three sessions is 5 minutes. DO NOT break the seal during the whole exercise.

After each 15-20 seconds release for 15-20 seconds. It is OK if you do not go completely flaccid.

The third session at 100% is pump up to 100% hold for 15-20 seconds and release fro 15-20 seconds. After doing this for a while you will notice that during the last few inflation's you will start to gain length. Don't rush it takes time. And never pump to the point of pain!

Any questions let me know.

Jackp
http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com/
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yyy

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Re: VED protocol...please help!
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2012, 10:41:37 AM »

yyy

The third session at 100% is pump up to 100% hold for 15-20 seconds and release fro 15-20 seconds. After doing this for a while you will notice that during the last few inflation's you will start to gain length. Don't rush it takes time. And never pump to the point of pain!


If this is the thirs session, I really can't understand what I have to do in the second one, they seem the same to me

By the way, I don't have a release button, I have to break the small tube to release...
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james1947

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Re: VED protocol...please help!
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2012, 07:52:19 PM »

yyy

I agree with Old Man, you have to change the pump to one that have quick release button, for the reason he mentioned.

Don't need a new VED
Can find cheep pumps in any pharmacy from devices used by woman to drain milk from they breast if they have too much.

James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

yyy

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Re: VED protocol...please help!
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2012, 08:03:39 PM »

I bought a classic VED from firmamedical. I paid it quite a lot: 199 usd
Can you advise me a good one? another big problem is that not everyone can ship from US to Italy
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james1947

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Re: VED protocol...please help!
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2012, 09:14:33 PM »

I think the VED you bought is fine.
Just change the pump as I have written bellow

James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

jackp

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Re: VED protocol...please help!
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2012, 05:58:11 PM »

yyy

The difference in the second and third session is during the second session you pump up to 80% to 100%. The third session is you pump up to 100% each time.

You do not need exact times and % of inflation just close is fine. After several weeks the third session will start to show you are gaining back size.

I suggest you use a magic marker and mark your expansion the first time. Then remark after 30 days. The improvement will be so so don't get discourged.

I agree with Old Man you need a VED with a quick release button. DO NOT hold the erection for 5 minutes that defeat es the purpose of bringing fresh blood into your penis.

Jackp
http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com/
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yyy

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Re: VED protocol...please help!
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2012, 11:10:07 AM »

JackP

I found the release button, Didn't see it for the first 6 month of usage because it is not really a button and it's hidden, but the important thing is that I found it. So..

in the 1st step I pump from flaccid to 80% erect, then release and after 20sec pump again

in the 2nd step I pump till 100%, i release till 80% then after 20 sec I pump again to 100%

in the 3rd I pump till 100% release (till 20-30% erect??) and pump again to reach 100% erection...right?
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jackp

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Re: VED protocol...please help!
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2012, 11:32:14 AM »

yyy

In step 3 release as much pressure as possible for 15-20 seconds after holding it for 15-20 seconds. (DO NOT break the seal) You will find that over time your will feel somewhat larger after a few minutes.

The goal is to bring as much fresh blood flow to your penis as possible. Along with helping straighten your curve.

Jackp
http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com/
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zeno

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Re: VED protocol...please help!
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2012, 03:07:42 PM »

In the "one-cylinder" protocol, Jack writes: "Start with a good seal and pump to about 80% erect. Hold for 15-20 seconds then release, (do not break seal). Do this for about 5 minutes."

What does "do not break seal" mean?  My device (bought from stockroom.com per the recommendation of someone on this forum) does not have a pressure release device.
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james1947

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Re: VED protocol...please help!
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2012, 05:34:37 PM »

Zeno

"do not break seal" means do not take out or move the VED from the place it is attached to your body.
If your device does not have a pressure release button (I had one like that in the past) you should replace the pump with one that have release button. One pump that is available in pharmacies are the pumps woman using to pump out milk from they breast.
An other can be the pump used for manual blood pressure check.

James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

zeno

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Re: VED protocol...please help!
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2012, 02:31:07 AM »

Thanks to the various people who replied.   On closer inspection, I see that the pump stockroom sold me does indeed have a release button -- it was just so small I didn't notice it.
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pless

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Re: VED protocol...please help!
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2012, 01:26:10 PM »

Two medical studies on the VED, one for Peyronies and one for preventing shortening after radical prostatectomy, used protocols with much longer hold times than are suggested in the protocols on this website.

Raheem et. al. (2010):"...slowly inflated until the penis was erect and maintained in this position for 3 min. The vacuum was then released to allow the erection to subside and the process repeated over a 10-min period."

Dalkin et al. (2007): "Leave the penis fully engorged inside the pump for 5 min. Then let the penis deflate fully for 1–2 min and repeat to full engorgement for another 5 min."

These are the only two published medical studies I've found relevant to our enterprise. 
Our website's 5-10 seconds protocol might be due Chris Spivey, Physician Assistant, Urology Centers of Alabama, Birmingham.  It appears above his name in the strange webpage for PeyroniesProtocol.com, along with an extremely sloppy description of an undated study by Benny Verheyden, MD, Andrology Unit, Department of Urology, Antwerp University Hospital.  Dr. Verheyden's study used VED "once daily for fifteen minutes (three times, five minutes)"

The very short hold-times protocols are, at least for 1-cylinder VED therapy, out of line with the medical establishment. 
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pless

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Re: VED protocol...please help!
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2012, 05:56:24 PM »

Old Man:
The Raheem et al. study (3 minute hold) found that for their group of 31 patients:
Quote
Overall, the patients found the use of the pump acceptable and without complications.
Minor bruising that settled spontaneously occurred in two patients who were aggressive with pump inflation, and one patient occasionally found the pump painful.
The Dalkin et al. study (5 minute hold) mentions no trauma among their group of 39 patients.
The Verheyden study (3 minute hold) mentions no trauma among their group of 12 patients. 

I'm sure you have heard of VED trauma from men you've consulted over many years.  Some men in this forum are sloppy readers and some have poor judgment  Nevertheless isn't it patronizing for the forum to be pushing a protocol which might not be medically optimal for the many men who read carefully and exercise good judgement?  Those men are looking for the best VED protocol, to produce the best results quickest.

Previously I thought the exta short hold time protocol was based on the theory of repeated blood refreshment. Raheem et al. regard the VED treatment as based purely on tunica stretching.  But Dalkin et al. recognize the function of blood refreshment.  They, as experts, think an engorgement lasting 5 minutes is efficacious.  So the extra short hold time protocol lacks medical basis.  It is as you now explain based on caution "for some guys".

Hold times longer than that can produce additional trauma symptoms for some guys. So, the times are held to a minmum with longer pumping session to prevent further injury to new members.

I hope the forum members who read carefully and exercise good judgement will read Raheem et al. and Dalkin et al. (and try to decipher Verheyden) and find the best VED protocol for themselves.

 
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pless

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Re: VED protocol...please help!
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2012, 09:33:39 PM »

Old Man:
I'm not at all expert in VED therapy or any Peyronies treatment.  I'm just a man with Peyronies who can read, and what I read doesn't fit together.  I find just one published Peyronies VED study (St Peter’s Hospitals and The Institute of, Urology, London), and one published post RP VED study (Tucson Medical Center), and one drib of a webposting from another Peyronies VED study (Antwerp University Hospital).  They all agree on a VED protocol with a several minute holding time.  I also can read your post from earlier today which justifies your preferred 10-15 sec holding time protocol strictly as prudential "for some guys" or for "new members". 

You shouldn't expect anyone who seeks cure for his Peyronies to passively accept that because you've wrestled with your Peyronies for over 58 years you "have enough experience to say what is right and wrong with any therapy for it!!"  You say that your urological group consisting of 12 doctors have seen Raheem et al. (or maybe Dalkin et al.) and dismissed it as small and questionable.  Without giving the details of what was questionable this is like whispered gossip.  Maybe it's inter-institutional bluster.  Or maybe what was questionable is irrelevant to certain members of the forum, like your prudence consideration is.

This forum includes members from all over the world, with very different kinds of knowledge.  I, no expert, am questioning -- putting a question mark over -- the protocols you favor because those doctors in London, Tuscon, and Antwerp didn't favor those protocols.  Consider: if you lived in London, Tuscon, or Antwerp and hung out with those doctors you'd probably be disfavoring the Birmingham Alabama protocol. Instead of taking sides, can we get to the bottom of this conflict of medical opinion?
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Mike_O

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Re: VED protocol...please help!
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2012, 07:41:10 AM »

Hold times have been discussed here for years - check out the old threads and/or use the search...

Longer hold times and higher suction results in edema (lymphatic fluid) at the tip of the penis (and elsewhere) that appears like a blister. This condition can take a long time to resolve. The penis is a "dead end" and it often hangs down - so gravity and lack of circulation prevent this lymph fluid from absorbing into adjacent tissue. Prevention is the best way to deal with this problem - thus the recommendation for short hold times.

I have read every medical study I can find on VED for Peyronie's. The sample size (number of men) is usually very small. They rarely, if ever, precisely measure the amount of suction used since they are not using devices with gauges. Various hold times have not been a focus of the research. Most importantly, reliable controls (as in medical research) are difficult with Peyronie's since the condition seems to present quite differently with each individual. For example, one guy's peyronie's might resolve without any intervention while another guy's condition is debilitating and recurring. If both of these guys are in the medical study (regardless of what is being tested) then the results will be skewed.

So, anecdotal evidence ("here's what worked for me") seems to be the most beneficial at this point in time - thus the great value of this internet site.

Good Luck!
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Shepard

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Re: VED protocol...please help!
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2012, 08:10:32 AM »

Pless, I am curious as to what your protocol for holding times is currently and are you getting results? I have been doing 1 to 3 minute holds and results visually seem to be improving quicker for curve and waisting. I am only on my 5th week of VED exercise/therapy and have been doing longer holds mixed in with shorter ones for the last week. Tougher part is knowing when to stop pumping. I just go to very slight uncomfortable pressure and stop/release at pain.

Thanks to Old Man and Mike etc all for compiling all this information!
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