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Author Topic: VED or TRACTION? - effectiveness  (Read 9148 times)

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chefcasey

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VED or TRACTION? - effectiveness
« on: November 12, 2010, 09:27:10 PM »

Hi I'm new here. 26 yrs old and just diagnosed with Peyronies Disease   although I began noticing symptoms about 3 months ago.

My case: So far the earliest signs were hourglassing right below the circumcision scar down to about an inch above the base.  At first it was only flaccid but now it is more noticeable erect.  The erect length hasn't been affected much, still at 6.75" such as before Peyronies Disease, yet i have noticed lost girth from the hourglassing and small dents running up the side of the shaft. I haven't noticed any real curvature yet and  I have no pain and no problem getting or maintaining erection.  My supplements currently include: L-arginine, ACL, natural vit-e, fish oil, and a daily men's multiple.  I am also trying to get on pentox as soon as possible.

My question: as far as traction and or VED therapy, would someone such as myself benefit from increased girth more so from traction rather than VED? I have read Dr. Levines study and seen the results from traction and improved hourglass deformity, as well as some who have seen girth gains on this site, although I have not read of any girth or hourglass improvement from the VED therapy. I'd appreciate any answers or your own personal opinions on which is best for me.  Thanks

 
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newguy

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Re: ved or traction?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2010, 09:23:27 AM »

Yes, I'd strongly advise you to take pentoxifylline. In additional you might want start taking COQ10 as a recent study suggests that it may be of use to peyronie's patients.

To my knowledge the VED study didn't show imporvements in houglassing. However, maybe some members here have had success with it. I'm sure they'll contribute their thoughts to this thread. If Levine has suggested that traction has helped with hourglassing, that's quite positive. There aren't really as many traction users on the forum, but I would advise starting a traction specific hourglassing thread in the traction forum, and seeing what comes of that.
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chefcasey

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Re: ved or traction?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2010, 12:24:04 PM »

thanks for your input, I will post a thread and see what comes up
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smithgareth

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Re: ved or traction?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2010, 03:21:59 PM »

Hi Chefcasey, did you make your mind up, VED or traction???
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Mike_O

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Re: ved or traction?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2010, 12:11:30 AM »

I have an opinion:

VED is easier to try than traction and as long as you don't hold too long or use too much vacuum you probably won't do any more damage. The challenge with traction is many guys report the device as uncomfortable and difficult to keep on for any length of time. My other thought is that traction does not inflate the vessels with blood like the VED.
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peyrosucks

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VED and hinge effect
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2011, 11:15:56 PM »

Hello All,

I've been following this forum for the past couple of months.  I wish I had started prior to taking Verapamil injections.  I started out with pain.  Then the pain subsided and an upward and to the left curve began with noticeable hour glassing.  Freaked out about the progression, I went the injection route.  I've went through 6 injections.  The hour glassing seem like it got better meaning it popped out a bit though still there, but I now have a hinge effect about a 1/3 of the way down from the tip.  It also seems like another plaque is forming right behind the initial one.  The hinge makes my penis bendable by about 50% in either direction when hard.  I can't say if this is from the injections or the natural progression.  I've had sex recently and know that it is possible.  Psychologically, Peyronies Disease is having a big effect, and that's 3/4 of the battle when having sex.  At this point, I'm sticking with Pentox and Arginine.  I saw Dr. Levine on a trip to Chicago, and he recommended traction.  It seems to be too cumbersome, and there aren't many results in that part of the forum. 

I purchased the Augusta Vitality 3 chamber system and should have it in a week.  I felt the VED route would be the better way to go first.  What have your experiences been with VED and reducing or eliminating the hinge effect?
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Mike_O

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Re: VED and hinge effect
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2011, 09:05:28 PM »

I suggest you read your way through the very long 51+ page "sticky" post at the top of the discussion board. Your thoughts on traction are the same as mine - good in theory but tough to actually do. The VED has helped a lot of guys but it is slow going. Hang in there!
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chefcasey

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Re: ved or traction?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2011, 03:22:52 PM »

smith:

sorry I just noticed your question.  I originally was going to try both, very carefully to feel which one I thought may offer a better solution.  There are so many accounts with different outcomes in the studies done and from users on the forum, so it was hard to choose one over the other without trying both of them.  I have a waisting deformity and there were so many different opinions on what works best.  I read the VED study which says NO improvement in waisting or regaining girth, out of 31 patients in the study, however many members of the board reported a completely different story.  The traction study showed increases in girth and improvement in ALL who had the waisting deformity and many members of the forum had the same results, although some didn't, and I had even heard stories of traction making it worse or causing "distal narrowing".  So needless to say, it's a hard decision to make with so many conflicting accounts.

I ordered both, but experimented with the ved first.  I noticed no pain or discomfort whatsoever, but I could not stop getting my scrotum sucked up into the cylinder, a problem I still have to this day, so I haven't even had what I consider a "real" stretch from the thing yet.

Traction was pretty easy to use suprisngly.  I used the one by x4 labs and it was comfortable around the glans, because of the comfort strap they use.  I started to experience pain in the areas I had plaque in, even stretching at 1 1/2 inches below my erect length.  I concluded that traction was upsetting my plaque and even the pamphlet that Dr. Levine gave me indicated that if I felt pain like I did, to cease using it as my scar tissue was still to raw.  It's a shame though because it did feel very therapeutic as I was wearing it, like it was stretching things out well, just too much soreness afterwards. Maybe I'll try again in a few months.
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Ben

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Re: ved or traction?
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2011, 05:32:44 PM »

chefcasey,
I think that the traction device can be really useful if used carefully. Stretching lenght (below / equal / further erected lenght) is not the main point to focus on. If you can handle the device for 40 minutes without to much discomfort it can be useful and, I hope, harmless.

I too experienced pain in the plaque area while stretching. It start as a burning sensation then I feel a strange thing as the pain grow : a longitudinal tickling sensation and then less or no pain at all. Like if the plaque has divided and relevie the traction force.

Then after a while the same processus seems to take part in another area and so on. It's normal to feel pain while stretching but feeling paing after a stretch session is to be avoided for sure.

To avoid soreness take 2 days off per week, it useless to endure pain at the sore spot because the traction force does not target the fibrotic area.

Ved and traction are a good combo but I wouldn't be stretching inthe acute phase of the disease.
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chefcasey

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Re: ved or traction?
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2011, 06:50:01 PM »

Ben:

I agree about length statement.  It doesn't matter what length but the amount of tension and duration.  I wasn't even stretching to where there was any tension on the springs, and could easily wear the device for 1 1/2 hours with little discomfort.  I also agree about the tingling sensation you get once you are into a good stretching session.  It sort of feels like a slight burning tingle that quickly dissapates and I can sort of feel the scar tissue "release" somewhat, and after that it feels good, and my penis feels much softer as I touch it while it's in there.

The problem I had was that there was pain starting about an hour after I used it, and remaining until the next morning.  I didn't think it was a good sign and it seemed to make my hard flaccid worse, so I'll try it again, but not until I'm much more stable
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Mike_O

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Re: ved or traction?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2011, 08:53:34 PM »

Thanks for posting your experience with traction. I hope you will continue to let us know how it is working for you. There seem to be more and more reports of guys using both VED and traction successfully to address improved penis health.
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Lennyman

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Re: ved or traction?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2011, 08:23:31 AM »

  Chef-  Absolutely do the VED, stay away from traction!  More harm will come from traction. Ved is the only proven cure.   Lenny
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Lenny was here  :)

chefcasey

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Re: ved or traction?
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2011, 04:42:27 PM »

Lennyman:

What makes you say that? Have you ever looked at the traction threads?  There are a lot of guys that have reduced the bends, regained lost length and girth.  There's also just as much proof scientifically that traction works just as well as VED's, and even perhaps better in the long run.  It depends on your symptoms and what stage of the disease you are in.  Some people use one or the other and see great improvements, some use both and see great improvements, and for others, nothing seems to work at all.  It's the nature of this disease, it's not well understood, so everything's a crap shoot.
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Mike_O

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Re: ved or traction?
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2011, 10:07:51 PM »

I stand by my comment a month ago:

VED is easier to try than traction and as long as you don't hold too long or use too much vacuum you probably won't do any more damage. The challenge with traction is many guys report the device as uncomfortable and difficult to keep on for any length of time. My other thought is that traction does not inflate the vessels with blood like the VED.

A VED routine takes about 15 minutes, doing it twice a day then 30 minutes. My understanding of traction time is upwards of 4 hour sessions. If one has the time and place for such an endeavor great, unfortunately I do not. I believe doing something (anything) is better than nothing - at least for the mind if not the penis.
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newguy

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Re: ved or traction?
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2011, 02:34:34 AM »

I feel that their are merits to both. Both have positive studies supporting them, and both have helped men reduce curvature. I do think that the VED is more simplistic and convenient, so perhaps could be seen as a more comfort approach that's easier to stick with, especially for pople new to the condition. Dr Levine for instance treats traction as the first port of call, so I don't think there are firm rights and wrongs. I will say that there is definitely more of a support system for VED here though, and men going down that route and given the benefit of vast experience from Old Man and co. Their support has encouraged many men to stick with an approach that has ultimately reaped rewards and transformed their condition.

Traction can be a bit cumbersome and I think people forget that in much the same way as a light pump is useful for VED, a light stretch is paramount with traction. It wasn't until I was introduced to ved, traction and the various oral treatments that it dawned on me how retracted / turtled up my faccid penis had become over the years. In a sense it's no wonder I registered a slight progression of the condition over the years with that being the case.
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torn

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More effective: traction device or VED?
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2011, 02:28:32 AM »

My curve is to the left. At this point its only minor but my main concern is the bump and the hardened plaque.that wraps around my dick just before the head causing the hourglass shape.

It has left my dick shorter and reduced girth, lack of blood flow due to the scar tissue or plaques  (im more prone to the cold shower feeling), and bad erection dysfunction. As well as hard flaccid state.

Over which device has proven to be more effective in treating these symptoms, the traction device or VED?
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Luciano

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Re: More effective: traction device or VED?
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2011, 03:13:00 AM »

I couldn't give you a precise answer.
But I think that doing something is better than doing nothing.
I personally chose the VED because you would have to wear the traction device 6 to 8 hours a day... and I think i could not manage it. (also jobwise)
I read about some people using both. I dont know if this is a good idea.
Luc
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BrooksBro

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Re: More effective: traction device or VED?
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2011, 07:40:07 AM »

In my experience, using both traction and VED are the ideal physical therapy.  I do not see that either or both of these are overwhelmingly successful in significantly decreasing curvature.  Unfortunately, they are about all that we have available for non-invasive, non-medicine, treatments.

I think there are few men who can regularly wear traction for the recommended 6-8 hours daily.  More likely is a few hours in the morning and a few hours in the evening.  While 2-4 hours daily are less than what was documented to be effective in the studies, my experience is that using it for even a few hours a day helps to both maintain and even restore length.  At 2-hours a day, progress (measured by how often you add a spacer) is slower than at 6-8 hours a day.

I highlight preserving and maybe restoring length because length is frequently cited as an important factor in men's sexual satisfaction.  We know plication surgery reduces length.  Therefore, the greater length prior to the procedure, the greater length afterwards.  This also applies to prosthesis implants, because they come in different lengths.

I think VED "exercise" is perhaps the most important physical therapy available for anyone with this condition.  Used regularly, it improves penile health through additional filling.  It may or may not decrease curvature (every man is different), but I believe it most certainly can halt progression due to impaired circulation.

I find I can wear traction for 1-2 hours, followed by 15-minutes of rest, and then begin a 15-minute VED session (3-cylinder protocol) with little discomfort.  I can NOT go from VED to traction.  Doing so results in blood being trapped at the very end, and severe distortion which lasts several hours. 
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torn

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Re: More effective: traction device or VED?
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2011, 11:00:15 AM »

Ok, based of your advice I think I'm going to go with the VED. But my concern is about whether or not the VED actually works or not. Has it been proven? Can you guys honestly say that your penises are close to being back to normal after using the VED? Does it help with Erectile Dysfunction, or morning erections? And what about the hard plaques and hourglassing?

Also, when using VED isn't it true that you have to use it the rest of your life as you will lose any progress made once you stop? The prospect of having to pump my dick everyday just to become a fraction of what I used to be is a depressing prospect.
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Luciano

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Re: More effective: traction device or VED?
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2011, 12:25:35 PM »

Here something to read just 2 studies among others:

http://peyroniesprotocol.com/studies.cfm

http://www.popcull.com/vedstudy.pdf

BUT MAKE SURE to stick to the protocols published here as sticky posts-
http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,697.0.html (if you are using 3 cylinder VED)

And if you are unsure about usage, dont hesitate to contact "old man"
He is the one out here that has most experience and will be able to guide you if you have questions.

Luc
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nebula

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Hourglassing
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2011, 05:01:19 PM »

Just wondering if anyone on here can report any improvement on hourglass deformity from using a VED?
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Worried Guy

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Re: Hourglassing
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2011, 05:03:49 PM »

yes I would like to know that also.  I have two plaques either side of the head causing a slight narrowing. 
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peyrosucks

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Re: Hourglassing
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2011, 01:08:55 AM »

I have hourglassing and a hinge effect.  I'm not sure how much improvement I'm seeing there with the VED. It seems like a slight improvement in hinging when erect.  The hourglass is there, and it's hard to tell if there has been improvement.  I'm 10.5 weeks into using it.  I hope it starts to really work in the next 15 weeks.
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newguy

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Re: More effective: traction device or VED?
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2011, 02:24:38 PM »

In my experience, using both traction and VED are the ideal physical therapy.  I do not see that either or both of these are overwhelmingly successful in significantly decreasing curvature.  Unfortunately, they are about all that we have available for non-invasive, non-medicine, treatments.

I think there are few men who can regularly wear traction for the recommended 6-8 hours daily.  More likely is a few hours in the morning and a few hours in the evening.  While 2-4 hours daily are less than what was documented to be effective in the studies, my experience is that using it for even a few hours a day helps to both maintain and even restore length.  At 2-hours a day, progress (measured by how often you add a spacer) is slower than at 6-8 hours a day.


I do agree with you that many men  do not see 'significant' improvements using these methods but some appear to. I think in either case, it can be a no lose position, because some improvement is better than none. If it eventually results in a surgical precedure, some length will have been gained or saved due to these methods and so it will have been well worth using the approach. In combination with oral treatments, I think there's definitely scope for VED and traction being pretty successful.

You make a good point though. People have to have realistic expectations of treatment. If someone has a very bad curve, thinking that it's likely to disappear as a result of these treatments isn't very realistic. Thanksfully even big proponents of mechanical method here tend to have a very honest outlook and do not create a flase inpression of the potential of these approaches. Many men do go from having curvature that prohibits sexual activity to a state where sexual activity is possible (due to lessened curvature, hinging etc), which puts them in a position where peyronie's has less impact of their mindset and life in general.

How effective has your duel traction + VED approach been for you?
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jetedwardz

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Re: Hourglassing
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2011, 08:41:18 AM »

yes i would like to know too as i am going to peuchase a 20 penis pump maybe today
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Ben

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Re: Hourglassing
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2011, 06:46:47 AM »

the best thing i've done to counter hourglassing is traction. It may sounds strange but traction is really a girth blaster, trust me.
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nebula

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Re: Hourglassing
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2011, 10:36:40 PM »

Is it at least possible in theory that a VED could actually help hourglassing?
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peyrosucks

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Re: Hourglassing
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2011, 05:45:31 PM »

the best thing i've done to counter hourglassing is traction. It may sounds strange but traction is really a girth blaster, trust me.

How many hours per day did you use the device?  I went with the VED because of time and convenience.  The most I would be able to do is 2-3 hours per day and not necessarily every day.
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newguy

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Re: Hourglassing
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2011, 06:58:57 PM »

the best thing i've done to counter hourglassing is traction. It may sounds strange but traction is really a girth blaster, trust me.

How many hours per day did you use the device?  I went with the VED because of time and convenience.  The most I would be able to do is 2-3 hours per day and not necessarily every day.

There was a recent study where traction was used for used for 2-4 hours a day: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21492409 Is was used in slightly different circumstances but is of interest none the less. I don't think there's much information out there relaing speciffically to using traction or VED for hourglassing. I would say though that the VED gives the penis a great workout, so there could well be scope for it improving various aspects of penile health. An important aspect of any therapy is also preventing further damage. Again, I certainly think that the VED is useful in this regard. It has helped many men.
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