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Author Topic: VED usage protocols  (Read 9175 times)

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Mike_O

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VED usage protocols
« on: August 02, 2010, 02:52:37 PM »

I wanted to create a post that discusses hold times and timing techniques - many threads mention this information but it is often buried amongst other stuff. So here goes:

The protocol suggests a 5-10 second hold time + a short rest for 10 cycles not to exceed 30 minutes. Some folks are holding longer, keeping logs, and use various means of counting. As always, no pain nor discomfort.

I find a 1 minute hold and a 1 minute rest to work perfect for me at my stage. I use a battery powered "count up timer" (I think I got mine at Walmart). Press "start" once comfortable suction of the 1st cycle is reached. When the timer reaches 1 minute I release suction and rest until the timer reaches 2 minutes then I apply suction for the next minute and so on....  After minute 19 I am done. I don't have to count anything as the timer does the counting. Even minutes are stretch, odd minutes are rest. I do have a log to check off the therapy session.

Observations: I tried a "count down" timer - timer set at 1 minute counts down to 0 then beeps - way too much button pushing and beeping! I tried without a timer and totally lost track of time, looked down and saw purple - I need a timer to keep me on track of time. I was marking my log for each cycle as a way of counting - way too much trouble just to count to 10. Longer hold times work for me as I was not getting much of a stretch in 5-10 seconds. To me this is very much like stretching any other muscle - it takes a few seconds for the tissue to relax and elongate.
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Old Man

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Re: Hold Times & Timing Techniques
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2010, 05:44:40 PM »

Mo:

If you will do some research through the various posts about the VED therapy which discusses the holding times, pump up number of cycles and other pertinent information, you will see that it has been mentioned many times. The added footnotes to the protocol also mentions pertinent information about holding times. So, what I am trying to say it this: the protocol only sets up a suggested procedure for one to follow and this can be modified to suit any individual needs in the therapy.

Holding times, amount of vacuum pressure, releasing the pressure and other items in the procedure is to be done with extreme care so as not to overpump the pressure or the holding times. What works for one guy may or may not work for another. Only each individual can determine which sub procedure works for him and how he wants to deal with it, etc.

Again, thanks for your input and happy pumping.

Old Man
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BrooksBro

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Re: Hold Times & Timing Techniques
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2010, 05:33:41 AM »

PLEASE post the specifics on your timer, such as make and model.  Thanks.  I found several on the Walmart site, none of which seemed to have the features you described.

I use a battery powered "count up timer" (I think I got mine at Walmart).

Observations: I tried a "count down" timer - timer set at 1 minute counts down to 0 then beeps - way too much button pushing and beeping!
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Mike_O

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Re: Hold Times & Timing Techniques
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2010, 09:44:55 AM »

A timer works well for me because I use a 1 minute interval. As Old Man and others have often posted - choose the interval that works best for you.

I use a simple, battery operated, digital, kitchen timer - BIG display and a few buttons - easy to see with my old eyes.

There are lots of models to choose from online (Amazon) - BUT you are probably better off just visiting your local store (save the shipping cost) - go to the kitchen accessories. Just about every one of them will "count up" - just press "start" when on 0:00 and it should work.

BTW a truly excellent timer is the Polder 898-90 for about $15 - but not necessary for VED therapy.
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mike67

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Re: Hold Times & Timing Techniques
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2010, 05:19:53 PM »

I guess I use a fairly primitive system compared to an electronic timer. The Old Man has previously suggested not to watch TV while doing the protocol - but I do and with his words ringing in my inbox , am very careful not to loose track of what I am doing.
I start my session by noting the hour/minutes showing on my cable box over the TV. This I commit to memory. I keep a little pile of banjo finger and thumb picks on the table in front of me and after each cycle - toss one of them into a little basket . All the while watching the clock . I refer to my wrist watch on arm to track the 10-15 second hold part of the cycle. When all the items are in the basket - I do 3 or 4 more by taking them out of the basket.
Primitive - but it's working for me.
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Mikey

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VED usage protocols
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2010, 10:12:40 AM »

When using the VED I'm wondering if there's any benefits (or potential downside) in splitting the sessions into two with each being 15 minutes in length?  If part of the purpose of the VED is to ensure oxygenated blood to flow into the penis by doing it twice a day you'd ensure that at least every 12 hours or so this is happening. 

It seems as long as you're not exceeding 30 minutes in a day then you're probably fine right? 
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Mike_O

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Re: Once a day for 30 minutes vs. twice a day for 15 minutes
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2010, 11:15:20 AM »

I am by no means an expert (like Old Man, et al) but here's my thought:

The 30 minute limit comes from the very common recommendation among VED makers, particularly when using constriction bands, to limit usage to 30 minutes. The constriction band is like a tourniquet.  For Peyronie therapy constriction bands SHOULD NOT be used for fear of further injury and scar. The protocol most of us are following allows circulation so the tourniquet factor is not really an issue.

So, what is the optimal frequency and duration? Is twice a day (frequency) twice as good? Is 4 times a day 4 times as good? Is twice as long (duration) twice as good? Is 4 times as long 4 times as good? Perhaps there are scientific studies that have looked at these questions but I have not seen nor read any.

Here's what has worked for me: once or twice daily VED therapy; about 1 minute hold times with 1 minute rest times; no pain/discomfort. Practically speaking more than twice a day is not possible for me. I do notice if I skip a day - so that's why I say "daily". I may try to go more toward twice daily if my schedule permits. I never exceed 30 minute sessions - not because I see a risk but rather because after about 20 minutes I am ready to move on to other activities. A session in the morning and another in the evening is possible and reasonable for me.

I also want to add that I believe living with Peyronie's Disease involves not only physical therapy but also getting on with life. For me, it would not be mentally healthy to spend more than 2 20 minute sessions doing VED therapy as there is so much more to do in my day. This is a major reason why traction therapy for 6-10 hours a day would not be a good fit for me.

Hope this helps...
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newguy

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Re: Once a day for 30 minutes vs. twice a day for 15 minutes
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2010, 02:35:20 PM »

Old Man andco recommend very tried and tested methods so you won't go far wrong it following those. The VED study carried out earlier in the year recommended 2 x 10 minutes sessions with 3 minute hold times.  If there is an optimal technique for hold time, length or session and number of sessions it's probably not something that can be known for sure, and may even be down to the individuals particulalr condition. What we do know is that many men have had some success with VED therapy and as such sticking with it for a prolonged period of time is the main thing, along with not pumping too hard. If there are variations to individual protocols I'm sure with time they will see results anyway, if they are lucky enough for the therapy to work. Some members here achieved the results they were looking for with the VED and still use it for maintainence. It's something that when used sensibly appears to help with penile health and as such if you do respond well to it, there's no reason why you can't keep using it.



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Mike_O

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Re: Hold Times & Timing Techniques
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2010, 10:58:01 PM »

I have now read through all 51 pages and 2523 posts of the "Vacuum Erection Devices" thread as well as several other threads - it took a few days!  Hold times have indeed been mentioned many times over the 5+ year history of this forum. It is difficult to find the posts using the search function since many folks do not use a key phrase like "hold time" but that's OK - it was very interesting reading. I will try to summarize here - please correct me as needed.

The "Protocol" here on the board clearly states the hold time of 5-10 seconds but also adds in the footnote a possible hold time of "45 or 60 seconds". Some of the forum members have reported using 3, 8 and even 10 minute hold times. The few cited medical studies have used different hold times as well.

Holding too long with too high a suction has caused problems for people, most notably pain, discomfort, swelling, edema, and possible further tissue injury - none of which are therapeutic.

It appears that the more experienced members of the forum favor hold times of 1 minute or less.

As most know by now, the medical literature is not very illuminating when it comes to VED and Peyronie's.  It would be very interesting to know the rational of hold times adopted by researchers when designing their studies...

The traction advocates seem to promote very long hold times - several hours, for best results. However, VED usage, whether for Erectile Dysfunction or Peyronies Disease, seems to have always been limited to a maximum of 30 minutes per session to avoid complications due to lack of blood circulation.

As best I can tell there is no "optimal hold time for best results" thus the importance of self-education, self-awareness and adopting a no-pain, no-discomfort policy in hopes of some improvement while doing no further harm.

My own opinion is that we may never know the optimal hold time due to the nature of Peyronies Disease. A 1 minute hold time at a certain negative pressure might work for me but not for someone else.

Mike_O
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luka-brasi

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Re: Hold Times & Timing Techniques
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2010, 11:04:18 AM »

@ mike

thanks for that great summary.
jackp recommends in his one cylinder routine holding times of 15-20 seconds.

old man recommends 5-10 seconds but this is for the three cylinder therapy.

i have ordered the soma erect one cylinder VED but i think i will start with old mans recommended holding time
of max. 10 seconds.

i would love to have some advice from the old VED users about not just holding time but how long should the pauses after
the holding and prior to the next pumping should be?

maybe it's writen somewhere, i can't find it. the search function rarely puts out what i'm looking for. non the less, great forum.

thanks in advance!

luka
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Mike_O

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Re: Hold Times & Timing Techniques
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2010, 12:01:31 PM »

Luka B

Thanks for adding to this thread. You raise a great question: How much rest time should there be between cycles?

As far as I know, there is no research to suggest the perfect amount of rest time. Everyone must decide what is right for them...

Here are my thoughts:

I was using a 1 minute hold time along with a 1 minute rest time because it worked well with my digital timer... After a couple of weeks and based on my reading here on the forum I think I used too much rest time and have adjusted my routine.

Warm Up 4-5 minutes: (see my thread on "warm up")
Pump 5-10 seconds: slowly pump a vacuum just short of pain/discomfort
Hold 35-40 seconds: pump as needed to maintain suction without pain/discomfort
Rest 15 seconds: release suction but don't remove cylinder

For example, watching a timer it looks like this:
0:00 - 0:10 Pumping
0:11 - 0:45 Holding
0:46 - 0:59 Resting
1:00 Repeat the cycle
The digits in the minute position serve as a counter.

Let me add that my overall goal is "To Do No Harm". I do not think longer rest times do any harm. I do think longer hold times have the potential to do harm.

Mike_O
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Mike_O

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Warm Up
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2010, 12:27:45 PM »

My limited experience with the "Protocol" is that the first several cycles are spent on waking up the body - it takes awhile for the blood to get down there and expand the tissue. For me it seems to take about 4-8 minutes - I think it was quicker when I was younger! So if I am strictly following the Protocol I would be about 1/2 done by the time I was warmed up.

Over the years, others have posted the same thing happening - the first few minutes are a "warm up" then they proceed to the 10 or more cycles of therapy.

I have a couple of approaches to this issue and welcome any comment.

Pump and hold for about 4 minutes with very little suction - just enough to keep a seal but not enough for a stretch. This seems to send a message "hey, we need some blood down here!" I then proceed with the therapy cycles.

Warm compress for 5 minutes - I take a very small towel, soak it with water, wring out most of the water and microwave a few seconds. Wrap around penis until the towel cools down - about 5 minutes. Proceed to therapy cycles.

Whenever I have had professional physical therapy (but not on the penis!) they have always used a hot pack prior to my exercise or massage so there seems to be a benefit...

Any thoughts/comments?

Mike_O
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Old Man

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Re: Hold Times & Timing Techniques
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2010, 02:55:44 PM »

Hey guys:

A few words about pump up times and holding times: There appears to be much confusion on the part of many guys about how much to pump up and how much time to hold. I am here to tell any and all that any holding time beyond 20 seconds is way too much time. A much better holding time between pump up cycles is around 10 seconds. Just count to 10 slowly between pump up cycles and you have your own built in clock, etc. Then do the same of relaxing time and then start another pump up time.

More cycles of pump up and holding for less time gives the penis much more exercise than holding for the longer periods of time with less total cycles. You must adhere to a good daily routine following the protocol to see any good results. Some are reporting that they lay off the schedule for days or weeks and then start back. This is not acceptable to getting good results from VED therapy.

Believe me fellows, I have worked with VED therapy in most any kind of environment presented by many guys on and off the forum. The times that I recommend are based on much experience with this work. So, I am only recommending this to any and all, however, each person must decide for himself what works best for him. Just be careful and not injure yourself by over extending the pressure to cause further trauma. VED therapy is a case where less is better than more, so be CAREFUL WITH YOUR PUMPING!!

Happy pumping hope for some good results to you guys soon!!

Old Man
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Old Man

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Re: Warm Up
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2010, 03:01:43 PM »

Mike_O:

Please read my post about holding times on another thread in the VED board section of the home page. However, whatever procedure you follow is your own decision, not mine. I am just trying to relate my experience based on more than 15 years of VED therapy and guiding many guys through their Peyronies Disease symptoms. It has worked successfully for many in the past and working for those in the present. Just wish that I had better records of how many guys that were helped with the suggested protocol and holding times.

Old Man

Edit: Mike, the link below takes you to my post.


 http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,1279.0.html

 
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Mike_O

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Re: Warm Up
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2010, 04:19:28 PM »

OM

Thanks for the comments. In reading the 5+ years of posts, you have been a consistent source of encouragement and advice.

I know you are not an advocate of long hold times based on your experience. What do you think of the warm compress? Any benefit? Could it do any harm?

Mike_O
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luka-brasi

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Re: Hold Times & Timing Techniques
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2010, 05:03:32 PM »

thanks for your advice guys.

so it looks to me like this would be a good way to do it:

warm up (still have to check that out)
10 seconds pumping
10 seconds holding
10 seconds resting

and that integreated in jackp's 20 minutes one cylinder therapy.
boy, that would be 40 cycles in the end if one cycle lasts 30 seconds.
are that to much cycles? no offense to jackp and his 15-20 second holding time but i'm the kind of guy who tends to overdo things.
i want to be very careful with the ved.

i know lot's of questions but i don't want to mess it up.

thanks

luka

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Mike_O

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Re: Hold Times & Timing Techniques
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2010, 05:06:54 PM »

Thanks for your comments on hold times. As you may know I have read the long thread (51+ pages, 2500+ posts) on VED. Old Man has consistently advocated the 10 second hold. I am amazed how patiently you (Old Man) have posted a calm and consistent message on this forum for 5+ years as a service to any and all - BRAVO!

The standard protocol (well developed and well written) suggests hold times of 5 - 10 seconds or up to 45 or 60 seconds.  I am certainly NOT saying the Protocol is wrong, dangerous or unhealthy. I am NOT saying the Protocol should be changed to something else such as longer hold times.

I am really not confused about hold times. I am naturally curious. Buried in those 2500+ messages are reports from forum members who used hold times longer than 10 seconds and saw favorable results. There is some evidence that longer hold times might be beneficial. BUT as far as I know we (us here on the forum as well as the medical community) really don't know the optimal hold time. All the evidence is anecdotal - along with the idiopathic nature of Peyronie's and we have this mess that we are struggling to understand and resolve as best we can.

It is important to understand the difference between vacuum (negative pressure) and hold time. I think everyone everywhere should be able to agree that excessive vacuum is harmful and not therapeutic - thus Old Man's wise and constant warnings about over-pumping.
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luka-brasi

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Re: Hold Times & Timing Techniques
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2010, 05:23:22 PM »

true, old man does an amazing job only it is not his job!
i'm very grateful for that.

i don't want to disrespect jackp! thanks again for the mailing me the one cylinder routine if you read that.
i just wanted to read some old ved users opionion on the one cylinder routine.

luka

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Old Man

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Re: Warm Up
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2010, 05:24:29 PM »

Mike:

There is nothing wrong with the warm up heat treatment. You do not need to "warm up" with the VED though. Just do a few pumps and releases to get a good seal going, then start the therapy exercises.

Old Man
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Mike_O

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Re: Hold Times & Timing Techniques
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2010, 08:21:13 PM »

Here's a post by Old Man from another thread the includes comments about hold times, etc. You must click on the link below to see the quote.

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Mike_O

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Re: Hold Times & Timing Techniques
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2010, 08:28:37 PM »

I want to add a "warning" of sorts to this thread. There are countless reminders in many discussions that over-pumping (too much vacuum) is to be avoided. We must keep in mind that we have Peyronie's Disease which seems to dictate how our body, and in particular our penis, reacts to certain events. So, while one might read on the internet about people who use long hold times and high pressures we must keep in mind that their body may not respond like ours does. "To Do No Harm" should be our motto as we perform VED therapy. Therefore, do not over-pump (use too much vacuum) as it may cause more harm than good. End of warning...
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Mike_O

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Re: Warm Up
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2010, 08:43:08 PM »

A 5 minute warm towel has worked well for me. My microwave takes about 35 seconds and the towel stays warm for about 5 minutes.
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Mel

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VED usage protocols
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2010, 06:28:07 PM »

When I purchased my VED from my Urologist, I was given a 26 week protocol. It was developed by Christ Spivey from the Urology Centers of Alabama. The instructions say each daily session should consist of ten cycles. Each session consists of the following steps: (1) Create negative pressure (2) Hold for 5-10 seconds. (3) Release the pressure.  (4) Repeat ten times to complete one daily session.

On this forum I have read that one should use the VED for 20 minutes. I complete the ten cycles a lot quicker than 20 minutes. Am I doing something wrong, or should I just continue to to do the cycles for 20 minutes.

Thanks,

Mel
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Old Man

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Re: Protocol
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2010, 07:13:01 PM »

mel:

I strongly urge you to follow the 26 week protocol that is posted on the VED board thread. It has been developed by following recommended changes to the original protocol that was developed by the Augusta Medical Systems company.

It has proved to be of a much better quality protocol than that used by the Chris Spivey trials. As yet, nobody seems to be able to secure a copy of the results of her trials period with a group of men at her uro group in Birmingham, Al.

So, your choice, but as you say her protocol is awfully short in duration and apparently does not lend itself to a good therapy session on a daily basis.

Old Man
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Mike_O

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Re: Protocol
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2010, 08:25:42 AM »

Mel - you raise a great question.

To the best of my knowledge (someone please correct me if I am wrong), at this point in time (year 2010), there is NO significant medical research on hold times, rest time, amount of vacuum, the number of cycles, or cylinder sizing. There are a few medical studies that suggest VED therapy is good for general penis health particularly after surgery.

What we DO have is lots of anecdotal evidence - in other words, we have people's experience - "this worked for me" - "that did not work for me". The internet and discussion forums like this have helped to build this pool of information.We have a challenge with Peyronie's disease in that it seems to have some common characteristics but lots of variables. So "this worked for me" makes sense relative to MY symptoms of Peyronie's at the time. Therefore, "this worked for me" (with my symptoms) might NOT work for you (with your symptoms). The uncertainty can be frustrating and discouraging.

Many people who post and read this forum believe that VED therapy is helpful and usually does not make Peyronie's worse. Sometimes doing something, even if there are no guarantees, is better than doing nothing especially as long as you do no further harm.

I am thankful to all those who have contributed their experience to this discussion board - from this experience come general guidelines:

The Protocol - I see this as a great starting point to get someone started on VED therapy. I also see this as not "written in stone" and therefore subject to change by the individual. We all take individual responsibility because there are no guarantees with the Protocol.

The general consensus seems to be:

Hold Time -  shorter is better than longer;

Rest Time - no longer than the hold time;

Amount of Vacuum - slightly less than what causes any pain or discomfort; less than 5-7 mm HG for those who use a gauge;

Number of Cycles - not more than a total of 30 minutes per therapy session;

Cylinder Sizing - start with the smallest possible cylinder and progress to larger cylinders over many weeks.

Mike_O
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Mike_O

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Re: Protocol
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2010, 09:38:27 AM »

With all that typing in the previous post I failed to address your question specifically.

I saw no benefit in following the 10 cycles of 10 second hold - simply not enough time under vacuum. Now, I routinely hold for 30-45 seconds and my therapy sessions last 20-30 minutes.  The most critical variable for me to watch out for is how much vacuum - too little does no good and too much does bad things. The first 6 minutes or so are "warm up" and I "under-pump" (use much less vacuum). After the warm-up I cycle until I reach 20-30 minutes total (including the warm-up).

Hope this helps.

Mike_O
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Stories and what I've found
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2011, 12:55:07 PM »

Guys,

I was reading about guys injuring themselves on here with the VED.  I have completed the first two weeks of the protocol with the A cylinder, and just started B last night.  I can see how some could injure themselves, here is what I have learned:

- To start, I was nervous and paranoid about injury so I am very conservative in my pumpin
- Some sessions it takes me 3 or 4 cycles to get a full engorgement.  I can see how some may only get 50% erection in their first couple cycles and end up overpumping to get 100%.  Then injure themselves.
- What I have been doing in cases like this is pumping till I feel a very slight stretch with no pain, then deflate.  Then repeat.  As said, after about 3 or 4 cycles, the blood is flowing freely and I get a 100 % engorgement with no pain whatsoever.  Almost like warming a muscle up before working out.  Then your rockin and rollin.

I'm new at this, and don't claim to be qualified to give advice... What do you vetrans think about this?

I will say that after two short weeks, I think I notice slight improvement already.  Not so much with curve and indentation, but the tissue beyond the injury (towards the head) seems to be quite a bit more rigid during natural erection than before I started with the VED.  Before using the VED, this half of my shaft was always softer, like nun chucks lol.  It seems like I've unlocked pathways for blood to get to this area of the general.  So, I'm pretty excited.   Along with the VED I am taking Vitamin E and Potaba.

With that, I would like to hear a readers digest version of any success stories you guys may have with the VED.  I'm very encouraged with this therapy and would love to hear any specific before and after success stories.

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Old Man

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Re: Stories and what I've found
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2011, 02:27:02 PM »

rubble:

Now you know why we have stated over and over many times on this subject, that less is much better than more. One has to practice using the VED therapy before embarking on the 26 week protocol regimen.

You have found the secret of correct usage of the VED and the therapy it will give for you. Just wish that every newbie with the VED therapy could discover what you have and use it to their best advantage.

Keep up the good work and have patience that something good will happen for you.

Regards, Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

Mike_O

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Re: Stories and what I've found
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2011, 09:19:54 PM »

Rubble - sounds like you are learning quickly. The "warm-up" concept is very appropriate. A couple techniques that work for me: a warm towel (discussed in another thread) prior to therapy; and using multiple cylinders to work up to the larger cylinders - i.e. us A for a few cycles then B for a few cycles then C. The larger cylinders are tough for me but other guys have no problems. Good Luck!
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Luciano

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Trying own new protocol
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2012, 01:28:47 PM »

I have completed the 3 cylinder protocol twice now, and I must say, I did not have much change.
I am also having problems with the big and smallest cylinders.
The smallest gets uncomfortably tight after a couple of minutes, the largest one takes very long to achieve full erection, and I look much much smaller than in the medium cylinder. That one really works fine.
So I had an idea and tested it allready 3 to 4 times. It seems to work, at least i feel comfortable with it.

As I skipped the small cylinder, as told in the 3 cylinder protocol, i looked at the single cylinder protocol developed by old man and/for jackp.
In another thread I read some advice by a member for the big cylinder, saying to use the medium first and then only to switch after a couple of minutes.

So what I do now is:
I use the 15 minute single cylinder protocol by old man/jackp with the medium cylinder (not twice, but only once a day)
And then I immediately do it again, but i use the big cylinder.
I loose like 2 minutes putting the lube on the big cylinder after having removed the medium one.. so I get a total of like 28 minutes / day like I did before using the 3 cylinder protocol.

My question @old man and others.
As this feels good and I get better results with the big cylinder (when looking at myself after having finished a session) than with the 3 cylinder protocol, should I continue (and see what happens) or are there counter indications?

My thoughts are, that as i did not get really better after one year on the 3 cylinder protocol this would not harm, and it does make me more confortable with the big cylinder. But of course if old man tells me its counter-productive, I will stop and stick to the protocol I used before.

Luc
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jackp

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Re: Trying own new protocol
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2012, 07:05:21 PM »

Luc

I only used the single cylinder protocol for over 2 years. It worked well for me.

Once a day for 15 to 20 minutes is fine.

There is a VED study done by Dr. Dinnen and Dr. Wilson on the VED protocol for men needing an implant. It looks like they took a lot of information from this forum to develop it.

Any question let me know.

Jackp
http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com/
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Mike_O

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Re: VED usage protocols
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2012, 07:09:03 AM »

Good to see this thread still alive - I started it almost 2 years ago!
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