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Author Topic: VERAPAMIL Injections results (Positive & Negative)  (Read 31501 times)

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MikeSmith

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VERAPAMIL Injections results (Positive & Negative)
« on: April 23, 2010, 01:38:09 PM »

Hi -

I noticed my new uro was shaking the needle quite a lot while he was injecting.  What do you guys think?  Have your docs done this during VIs?  

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Old Man

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Re: Injection w/ new doc - moving/shaking the needle
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2010, 03:17:28 PM »

MikeSmith:

Some docs do use the jab, shake and twist method of injecting verapamil for Peyronies Disease. However, from the results of my 12 injections by a very qualified uro experienced in Peyronies Disease, I would not ever again allow any injection in my most prized possession. I was given 12 injections of verapamil before realizing that they were only giving me more nodules, plaque and a very sore penis each and every time.

Maybe they work for some, but for me, it was wasted dollars and time plus the docs charges. I do have good insurance, but I prefer to spend my insurance dollars in a better manner than something that still does not have a very good track of success.

The above is just my personal observations as well as others I know who have had the same experience that I did.

Old Man
 
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Age 91. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

ohjb1

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Re: Injection w/ new doc - moving/shaking the needle
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2010, 03:38:11 PM »

To Mike Smith - Also had Verapamil injections. Agree 100% with Old Man.
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MikeSmith

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Re: Injection w/ new doc - moving/shaking the needle
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2010, 08:18:44 PM »

Thanks guys...damn this is frustrating... there is an article claiming 60% had good experiences but of course the last thing I want is more plaque.  

Btw, I was in SEVERE pain today when the lidocaine wore off - I almost went to the ER.  I had to take 2 percoset... I have no idea what he did .  It felt like someone took a knife and stabbed me repeatedly in the penis... which is basically what he did with the needle I assume.  I have never experienced pain like that in my life - and now I have this giant lump running around the mid-shaft like a tire.  Don't know what that's about...

I don't get what the docs are thinking...if this causes more trauma, why are they doing it?  Is that 60% number really "truly" satisfied patients (in the publication I read from a urology journal)?  I don't think there is 1 poster here who is happy with VIs...is there?  And I know my curve got worse after my first one for sure (though that could also be due to progression of the disease).  Hourglassing did not get worse.  

I certainly wouldn't object to stopping these painful & time consuming injections... I just am hoping to be in the 60% of people who saw improvements... my plaque is still "soft" my Dr. says - so maybe it would prevent more calcification... but the pain today was so severe I feel like my whole penis is gonna turn into 1 big scar.  
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Lennyman

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Re: Injection w/ new doc - moving/shaking the needle
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2010, 09:16:24 PM »

Mike I hate to say it, but any injection is bad for the penis. Many here got peyronies from the injection to get erection.  Reason why docs do it- 1. They get paid big bucks anytime they inject something.  2. They dont know of anything else.  They are just following  learned procedures from medical class.  Lenny
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LWillisjr

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Re: Injection w/ new doc - moving/shaking the needle
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2010, 11:35:23 PM »

I don't want to come across as disagreeing here.... but let's get the facts straight.

1. First off, Dr. Levine also uses the "sewing machine" method for his VI injections. I had 6 and watched during each one so I can attest from personal experience. Levine stated this this was his improved delivery method over the straight injection type. The objective is to break up and surround the plaque as much as possible with the Verapamil. It would only make sense that any of his "trainees" would do the same.

2. The injection does cause temporary trauma. There is some pain and bruinsing afterwards, but usually subsides in a few days. Why would one subject their penis to this...... because the trauma in most cases is temporary, and Levine does boast a 60% rate in those who see "some improvement".

3. Have VI's done more harm than good? In certain people yes. I clearly respect Old Man's bad experience and point of view on this matter. There is always a risk with any type of treatment. And there have been a few that have had bad experience with VI's. I'm always amazed at how this gets turned into "most".....  or "almost everyone", etc.  Did the VI's help me?...... no. I was in the 40% who didn't see an improvement, but I was willing to try all options. But I can tell you from personal experience that I had no ill side effects from the VI's. For me it was worth the try. And I for one believe Levine's results so I think there are many men out there who had positive experiences with the VI's.

So the bottom line is that the injections are not fun, a bit of pain and temporary trauma. Are there some documented cases of long term trauma..... yes. But we can't ignore the published 60% improvement rate. We have often asked ourselves where these 60% are at, and why we don't have more success stories on our forum as a result. But wouldn't it make sense that if they did see improvement that they likely are not surfing the internet for a site like ours looking for help?

my .02 worth
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Woodman

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Re: Injection w/ new doc - moving/shaking the needle
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2010, 12:36:31 AM »

I can agree with all of you on both sides of the point. I had 12 injections last year. I had a lot of pain, bruising, and swelling. It will be one year next month since my last injection and my penis is still bruised. While I was taking the injections I was way too sore and bruised to even use the VED afterwards.

After my 8th injection I started to experiance the shrinkage factor. Iam not sure if it was just timing or the injections theres no way to tell for sure. I went through with the injections after a lot of thought because the doctor said its all they had to try and decrease the pain and maybe stop the progression. When I got finished I didnt get anything from the injections but a bruised penis and a lighter wallet.

Do I think they mite of did more harm I think quite possabily. Would I do them again no I would not. IMO I think they get more of the effect by the needle swiss cheesing the plaque then the injection its self.

The doctor who performed my injectons also knew and followed Levine. Each plaque they would push the needle around in 15 to 20 times a piece.

This is just my experiance I wouldnt tell someone to do it or not to do it. I think you have to really sit down and think it through and decide for ones self. In the end I did it and now I dont have to wonder well if I would of done it would I be better would it of worked etc. Now I have it crossed off my list and makes my decisions easier with less choices. As Les said they also gave me the odds going in to it.
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MikeSmith

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Re: Injection w/ new doc - moving/shaking the needle
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2010, 05:57:06 AM »

Thanks everyone for giving your thoughts on this.  I appreciate it.  I understand there are clearly two sides so I am glad to hear both.

Woodman, you're still bruised?  Do they have any idea why?  That's kind of scary.  I had that happen to my eye once - it went away around 4 mos.  I thought it was going to be permanent... at least it made me look like a tough guy...ha.   A black and blue penis is a little different.

It's interesting that my VERY first uro (Dr. Vitimin E, I will call him...since that's all he told me to do & come back in 6 mos)  said the shots would be "unethical" to do as a first line move.  Now, I can see his point.  I guess unless you try the first step, going more invasive is not the right thing to do.  However, I played this game with my sinuses for years - constant medrol & levaquin... and finally gave up and had surgery - which solved the problem.  So, I figured - let's skip the Rx nonsense (pentox was making me jittery...not sure if arg does much, vit E isn't proven, etc...) and just go to the injections, fast size, and VED (which I've had some trouble with since I haven't shaved.)  

I agree that the happy 60% would probably not be on this board since they likely moved on with their lives.  Also, for those of you who did not get results - were you in a later stage?  I got this in December so I am thinking maybe the VI will prevent the early scar from calcifying... but it's all just theoretical.
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ohno

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Re: Injection w/ new doc - moving/shaking the needle
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2010, 08:45:28 AM »

When I saw Dr. Mulhall he told me that he had no where near the 60% success rate (it was more like 25% if I remember correctly.) There was also a considerable downside risk (I don't remember the percentage although I think it was around 15%).  I decided not to go with the injections.
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jackp

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Re: Injection w/ new doc - moving/shaking the needle
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2010, 09:04:49 AM »

ohno

The downside to penile injections for Erectile Dysfunction are peyronies and corporal fibrosis. I tried the injections and they only made my condition worse.

Most me that try quit very quickly. There are some few success stories but they are very few.

My recommendation is not to use injections, and if you do know the risk.

Jackp
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Woodman

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Re: Injection w/ new doc - moving/shaking the needle
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2010, 09:15:03 AM »

Yes Mike, I actually went to see Levine after a while and asked him about the bruising. He explained to me that the bruising can take up to a year to go away. I dont think its common from what I gather. I think juist like you having a tremendous amount of pain with the injections.

I think each person is a little diffrent and there tissue and make up is too. I too also had to quit taking Pentox. I had a lot of swelling too after the injectons. After each one the swelling was diffrent. I would contact Dr. Levine and ask him about the pain & swelling etc. that you are experiancing.
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MikeSmith

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Re: Injection w/ new doc - moving/shaking the needle
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2010, 10:12:20 AM »

I had been using fast size 4-6 hrs a day prior to the inejction... maybe that made it more prone to get sore?  I don't know when I'll be able to use it again... not now certainly.  

I just found a link on this site showing a small survey of people who got VIs... and again, most were unhappy or saw no results.  I don't know if I am going to continue w/ this.  
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MikeSmith0

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VIs have not helped
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2010, 11:07:47 PM »

I'm done with the VIs (verapamil injections). The total length has gone down by 3/4" to 1" (hard to measure due to curve and Erectile Dysfunction when holding a ruler).  The upward curvature due to the dorsal plaque is almost 90 degrees.  Before, it sort of still looked almost normal at 30 degrees.  Now, it is clearly not in the normal range at all.  The dorsal plaque is much harder than it was before the injections, and it is bigger.  The side plaques seem to be less noticable but the narrowing and hinge effect is still there...actually, it has gotten worse even though it is harder to feel the plaques.  Girth beyond (toward the head) the plaque has been reduced by 1/4" roughly...so that part is narrower too.  

During this time I have taken pentox 0-2x per day - It affected my sleep so in total, I went through about 150 pentox tabs in 5 months w/ a similar # of 500 mg arginine tabs - probably not a theraputic level.  I haven't been that careful to count my time using fastsize, but it's probably around the 40-50 hour range.  I have only started the VED use regularly in the last week or so since I had a lot of confusion w/ it earlier.  

So, I'm not sure if I'd recommend the VIs to someone or not bc I don't know what would've happened had I not had them...and I was also in the "ideal" stage (the doctors thought) to respond to VI (pre-calcificaiton).  However, it didn't work...and it did not increase girth, contrary to the 100% in Levine's 14-person study (though I would technically need 7 more for that to be fully comparable... I don't want to continue).    I would probably recommend the VED first - before even fast size... just based on what I've read on different boards and I think it's more convenient to use that for 30 minutes than wear the FS device for 4 hrs per day at least.  The VED is just a little intimidating at first and hard to get exactly right so I set it aside for too long after I got it.  Now that I can use it properly, I am pissed I did't just start with that since it is the least invasive and traumatic method to approach all of this and I had a circumfrential scar which would've benefitted from the 360 degree stretch.  I think fastsize might be aggrivating the dorsal plaque, potentially even lengthening it.  Anyway, I was putting off taking my "after" pics until a few days ago but I did and they're just pretty bad.
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Tim468

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Re: 5 VIs --> 30 degrees is now 80-90, 3/4" shorter
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2010, 01:46:49 PM »

Sorry to hear about your experience. I am never going down that path - and like you, there is only one of me, and I will never know what different steps along the way might have led to, if taken.

Tim
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Brightdog

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Re: 5 VIs --> 30 degrees is now 80-90, 3/4" shorter
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2010, 04:40:47 PM »

I was slated for a 6-injection course of treatment in the fall of 2008, at a rate of one injection per month. My curvature was to the left about 60 degrees, plus I had a pronounced ring of scar tissue causing a bottleneck about 3" from the base of the penis. Pre-Peyronies Disease size was an even 8" erect.

The injections were very painful. I had some concerns about how the urologist decided where he would inject. No tests were done - no ultrasound, not even an examination of the erect penis.

After the first 3 injections there seemed to be some softening of the plaque. Two injections had been to the relatively unaffected side of the penis and one injection to the affected side.

The fourth injection was also into the least-affected side. It caused haemorrhaging. My whole penis turned black. Afterward, the scar tissue from the haemorrhaging plus the natural progression of the disease meant that I was now not only bent to the left but twisted. The bend stabilized somewhere around 160 degrees. Yes, that is not a typo: I bent to the side so much that my penis was facing back at me, almost a full circle. No way of measuring length - the astonishing part was that erections were still possible. Unfortunately, the pain was severe and sexual activity was not possible.

I just had graft/plication surgery on July 26th.
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newguy

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Re: 5 VIs --> 30 degrees is now 80-90, 3/4" shorter
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2010, 09:18:26 PM »

Thanks for sharing your account brightdog. I'm pleased that you're now in a much better position post surgery. I hope more men continue to both positive and negative verapamail injection posts, because others may well benefit from from as part of their decision making process. From a personal perspective, I've always been quite scared of the idea of anybody injecting my penis with anything. I'm not saying that it's something I'd rule out if the right treatment came along in future, but I wouldn't opt for verapamil injections.
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newguy

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Re: 5 VIs --> 30 degrees is now 80-90, 3/4" shorter
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2010, 06:18:03 PM »

I just read your 'My History' post. It sounds like you've been treated really badly by lots of medical professions and haven't had much luck with your condition. Here's hoping that the surgery is successful and the start of a new beginning.
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MikeSmith

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VIs have not helped
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2010, 02:15:21 AM »

Wow brightdog, i hope the surgery went ok for you.  I can't believe that happened w/ the injection.  Do you have any updates from surgery?


I also wanted to add to my initial assessment of the verapimil injections...  I am the 2nd person to report a discoloration of the penis (black and blue) that still has not faded - 2+ months after the last injection.  And, after seeing my ultrasound I am more convinced that the injections caused more problems and trauma.  There was zero benefit...and all that happened was that I got more calcium deposits everywhere.
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Brightdog

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Re: 5 VIs --> 30 degrees is now 80-90, 3/4" shorter
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2010, 05:56:39 PM »

Wow brightdog, i hope the surgery went ok for you.  I can't believe that happened w/ the injection.  Do you have any updates from surgery?

There were a few mistakes made at the hospital with regard to blood thinners and dressings, and I ended up with an infection that slowed down my healing. So here I am on day 31 post-op. There is no pain - hooray. However, there is also no real erection. At this point, I would not be able to have intercourse. Mind you, the stitches have not dissolved. The scabs on the head finally washed off today, so at least I am starting to look more normal - except for those clear stitches sticking out all over.

I have an appointment with the specialist on September 8th. He has already recommended traction, but without an indication of when to start. I couldn't start it while I still had unhealed wounds, but I am thinking this weekend might be the time.

I am trying not to panic. I understand the recovery of function from this operation takes time and therapy. But I'm getting older by the minute and would like to use my equipment before I'm written off!
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newguy

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Re: 5 VIs --> 30 degrees is now 80-90, 3/4" shorter
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2010, 07:36:02 PM »

I have an appointment with the specialist on September 8th. He has already recommended traction, but without an indication of when to start. I couldn't start it while I still had unhealed wounds, but I am thinking this weekend might be the time.

I am trying not to panic. I understand the recovery of function from this operation takes time and therapy. But I'm getting older by the minute and would like to use my equipment before I'm written off!

Hi Brightdog - Maybe you shouldn't start traction when you're able to achieve an erection. It may be that the recent happenings concerning your member have reached such a point that the healing process is takings its time. Also, remember that the VED is capable of helping your achieve an erection, so it you go too long without having one, that might effectively kick start things. Also, Erectile Dysfunction meds and supplements have been lifesavers for many men here, so hang in there are hopefully things will work out for you. Hopefully your specialist will help with any concerns you have, so I hope the appointment goes well!
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not9inches

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Re: Injection w/ new doc - moving/shaking the needle
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2010, 07:21:49 PM »

Hey everone...oldman,....lwillisjr...et.al

I'm back on the board. Update:
I havent done a thing but sulk about my condition. I guess it seemed hopless to me from all the reading. There just aren't a lot of success stories here to give much confidence
in pursing treatment. But one that that has puzzled me and have been wondering about. I read a lot of posts that others leave talking about feeling nodules...plaque...etc.
My unit is about 80 degrees bent to the left. No twisting...no coke bottleing. But the darndest thing is...I cannot feel ANY hard tissue. Nothing. Yes...I did used to be straight as an arrow about 3 yrs ago. From my estimation...my condition has stabilized now and has been bent to this degree for about a yr.  I have no E.D.

However, I am back on the see-another-Uro-bandwagon.  This will be my third Uro coming Nov. 24th. I live in Houston. I have pretty much decided I want to forgo any injections, topical-scam cream, etc.   Any thoughts on my situation?

 
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LWillisjr

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Re: Injection w/ new doc - moving/shaking the needle
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2010, 09:47:14 PM »

Welcome back.....  I don't know if this helps but there is a Dr. who has had poasitive comments here from the Houston area. I believe it is Dr. Lipshutz  (Don't know exact spelling so apologize). I'm sure you can search and find him. I think the first name is Larry.
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Les - 10 yrs Peyronies Disease free
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Woodman

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Re: Injection w/ new doc - moving/shaking the needle
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2010, 12:05:58 AM »

not9inches- If you dont mind saying witch doctor did you chose to see on the 24th. Iam curious cause Iam in Houston too and am always looking for new doctors dealing in our condition in the Houston area.
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not9inches

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Re: Injection w/ new doc - moving/shaking the needle
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2010, 08:08:45 AM »

Ive got an app. to see Dr. Lipshutz.  I'm not too sure about any injections however, Im wondering if he does surgery.
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Woodman

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Re: Injection w/ new doc - moving/shaking the needle
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2010, 11:24:55 AM »

Dr. Lipshultz does plication and implant surgeries only. Hes doesn't do any incision or excision and grafting surgeries. He does follow Dr. Levines approach. His PA Mike Shoemacher is a nice person and will give you time to ansewer your questions if you speak to him in your visit(s).

Dr. Lipshultzs usually has his PA or an intern come in to get your history and examine you. Then after they are done he will come in to see you. The doctor is usually pretty busy so he moves in and out kinda quickly in my experiance so I would suggest to think of all the questions you would like to ask before hand and write them down. This way you don't forget them once your in the office.

If you have a appointment in the middle of the day and its your first visit be sure to allow for time to find parking etc. In the middle of the day the parking garages get pretty full in the medical center.

Please post back here after you see the doctor and tell us about your experiance.

If you have any questions about the doc etc. feel free to ask I would be glad to ansewer them if I can.

Good luck with your visit on the 24th!

Woodman
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chefcasey

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should I give VI a shot?
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2010, 04:23:19 PM »

I have my first appointment with Dr. Levine in 3 weeks.  I hear a lot of men here have seen him before, and I understand his approach is usually verapamil injections, pentox, and traction.  I really want to get on pentox, and perhaps give traction a try, but has anyone really had any luck with VI's?  It seems as if no one has, or even more frightening a worsening of their Peyronies Disease.  If no one sees good results, why Dr. Levine still give them?  There must be a significant group of men not represented on this forum who have had success with it.  Just wondering what everyones thoughts were on this.
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LWillisjr

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Re: should I give VI a shot?
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2010, 07:10:42 PM »

Levine will tell you that 60% of his patients see improvement. But it isn't just the VI's. It is a combination of Pentox, traction, and the VI's together. He believes this combined approach is most effective.

You will find guys on this forum who have had bad experience with injections, but I don't believe Levine was the one that did these. You will also find many like myself who had the VI's but did not see any improvement. And I also id not have any negative side effects from the VI's. I was willing to try whatever it took.

Les
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Brightdog

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Re: should I give VI a shot?
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2010, 11:41:43 AM »

My VIs showed some mild benefit before becoming a disaster (see my story in the relevant thread). I am not sure I can blame the procedure, though. I suspect the doc was not at his best when he was treating me (if you wish, you could translate that as "wouldn't listen and was possibly inebriated").

The treatment has been adopted as standard because of the absence of proof of the effectiveness of other treatments. And I don't know what it's like where you are, but where I live you have to do what the doctor says or you have trouble getting any treatment. That is changing - patients are learning that they can say "No" and the doc has to listen.

If you have a good doctor and you trust him, then he must have a solid belief the VI has a good chance of success.
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chefcasey

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Re: should I give VI a shot?
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2010, 12:31:26 PM »

willis-

Yes I have read that his success rate for the treatment is around 60%.  Im curious as to what the success rate is with just pentox and traction, I'm willing to bet it's around 60% as well.  I think most specialists still use VI's, just because it works in a theoretical sense. 

brightdog-

That is one of my biggest fears.  I have the type of Peyronies Disease that seems to inflame the tunica on the sides and ventral areas about half way up the shaft, so I get the hard flaccid and "waisting" that many talk about on here.  After hearing some of the other men's conditions, mine actually seems pretty mild.  I just have some hourglassing in the flaccid state, but only some indentations and a slight maybe 5 -10 degree lateral curvature erect, with no loss of length, but loss of girth.  So that being said, I think I'll go the pentox, traction/ved route, and hope for the best
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MikeSmith0

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Re: should I give VI a shot?
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2010, 04:59:49 PM »

I had VIs...which were not a good experience.  I think Levine knows how to do it better than others though... I'd do it with him if I were ever going to do it again.  They use a fairly thick needle to go in and stab your plaque over and over... so it's rough... though you're numbed, it still hurts when the lidocaine wears off...and you are bruised for 5 days or more.  I don't recommend it personally... it did not improve my curve but my hourglassing improved 6 months later (may have not been due to that though - hard to say).   See if there are spots open in the xiaflex trial.  Otherwise, maybe just do traction + oral meds.  

You can try 1 VI and see if you want to put up with it.  I think he recommends 10 or 12.  I was done after 5... and a lot worse off.  I lost about 1 cm, had constant pain, and I think it is still discolored from all the black & blue I went through.  And the angle increased 10 degrees.  Now, I got the cm back w/ traction and time... and it went back down 10 degrees to where i started.
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chefcasey

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Re: should I give VI a shot?
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2010, 07:25:45 PM »

Thanks for the input mike,

I have seen the 60% success rate for levine, but other peyronies experts say only 25% such as Dr. mulhall.  Perhaps it's Levine's technique that gives him the highest success rate, but with me living 8 hours away, it would be someone else doing it on me, and i wouldn't trust them.

 I'm going to give pentox and the ved/fastsize a go for 6 months(just ordered both today), and if nothing happens, maybe I'll think about VI's.  I will keep all of you posted, thanks.
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newguy

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Re: should I give VI a shot?
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2010, 11:12:57 PM »

If pentox, traction and injections are seen as his effective combo, I think I'd be inclined to skip the injections and try pentox and traction, both of which have a decent track record on their own.
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fubar

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Re: should I give VI a shot?
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2010, 11:28:43 PM »

Chefcasey

I saw my first urologist at the VA hospital at American lake in Tacoma WA.I came prepared from learning from this forum way before I became a member.I can not remember a good outcome from VI injections from any member.The PA ( urologist) mind you is not a doctor.Did not even look at my penis said he gives injections and has a 50% successful rate, I do not hear veterans glorifying his success. I said no that was not an option because what I have learned from others on this forum.Read its all here!

Then he asked me if wanted an implant with out even diagnosing me.Now were talking bull I had an on  hand any moment perfectly straight working unit before I had  Erectile Dysfunction under any circumstance. But then again I had a perfect heart before my heart attack at 34. No way am I going to give up on my penis at 45 .To much at stake!


Fubar










Think about less intrusive therapy before you trust someone with your penis health.We only have one!

Fubar

Fubar
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LWillisjr

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Re: should I give VI a shot?
« Reply #33 on: December 25, 2010, 08:51:45 AM »

I have seen the 60% success rate for Levine, but other peyronies experts say only 25% such as Dr. Mulhall.  Perhaps it's Levine's technique that gives him the highest success rate, but with me living 8 hours away, it would be someone else doing it on me, and i wouldn't trust them.


Keep in mind that Levine' success rate is not based on the VI's alone. It is based on the combination approach of the VI's, traction, and Pentox. I don't know about his VI technique but I do know he uses a "sewing machine" type method of doing the injection which he claims is more effective at delivering the drug to the treatment site.
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Les - 10 yrs Peyronies Disease free
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chefcasey

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Re: should I give VI a shot?
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2011, 10:13:28 PM »

Thanks guys

I saw Dr. Levine over the weekend.  He discussed his usual "3 prong approach", but said he didn't even think that my scar tissue was that bad to even attempt VI's, which made me feel pretty good to know it's not as bad as I thought.

However he did put me on pentox, and he was amazed at the knowledge I gained on Peyronies Disease just by reading this forum, so thanks to all of you.  I started traction today with an x4 labs device and following his reccomendation of .5cm increases every 2 weeks, starting 1 1/2 inches below my erect length.  That and some light ved usage (maybe 10 min a day to start), so I'll have my work cut out for me for at least the next 6 months.
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fubar

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Re: should I give VI a shot?
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2011, 01:49:41 AM »

Casey
Vi's are not very popular on this forum neighter the topical form. I was discouraged and chose not to take them on onset of this disease.Many have posted negative information about this medicine and procedure.Usually when i speak to someone new to the forum i tell them to look at older post a few years back because you find alot of good information that helps in  making good decisions.

You may be very lucky he chose not to recommend them.Their are those on the forum who noticed more plaque sites after veraprimal injections.Could be he has changed his thoughts on their effectiveness.

It is awesome that you were able to obtain a script for pentox.Please keepbus informed on your traction therapy.I wonder though if it is wise to use the ved and traction both on daily use though.I know some members do but I was told by a wise oldman that it may he a little to much.

So becareful take it slow, do not create more damage.

Fubar
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chefcasey

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Re: should I give VI a shot?
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2011, 12:33:22 PM »

Yea I didn't go with them.  Even Dr. Levine said that the curvature wasn't enough to even warrant them. 

As far as pentox, it's been about 2 weeks.  I haven't noticed too much change, although erections are more common now but they weren't a problem before anyway, I'll just have to wait and see. 

As far as traction and ved, I haven't really started a "routine" I would say yet.  I'm just doing light ved in the morning, maybe 10 minutes or so, and I'm still getting used to it.  Traction is tough to get used to, especially the hours per day, so all I'm doing right now is just using a gentle pull, not even a stretch(I'm stretching almost 2 inches below my erect length), just to get used to the duration, and see if I would even be able to wear the thing for 30-40 hours per week.  So I'll make my decision in the next week or so if I want one or the other or both.  It all depends on what goes on with my pain levels, and my schedule.  I'll be quite honest, both these treatments are a pain in the arse in their on way, but beggars can't be choosers.  I can't sit back and watch myself get worse week after week anymore
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chefcasey

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Re: should I give VI a shot?
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2011, 01:59:47 PM »

also, maybe this isn't the right section to post this, but the injection I had to induce an erection for the ultrasound was really weird.

It did not feel like a regular erection at all.  Some parts of my penis that had indentations or didn't fill out before actually did fill out, so much so that the nurse was asking "ok, where's your deformity?', of course when it came down she could see it.  Also, for some reason, my corpus spongiousum didn't inflate at all!! It was completely flat during the ultrasound and it was scary.  I don't know why this is, perhaps because the drug is injected into the cavernosa and not the spongiousum?  Also when they were doing the ultrasound, size wise the erection was about 75%, but it felt rock hard to the touch, so weird.  I suspect that the drug must have somehow caused the erectile chambers to expand in such a way that pushed out my indentations in the tunica, yet didn't equal my normal erection size.  I just found it so mysterious and thought I'd share.
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MikeSmith0

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Re: should I give VI a shot?
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2011, 01:57:04 PM »

yeah most people dont get 100% from those shots... i was also 75% or so... and ive had that done a number of times... it's awkward to say the least.

if you were not 100% erect, then yeah the issues with your penis won't be nearly as visible... my curve is less visible if i am not 100%.  you might need something different or stronger.  imho, prostaglandin is stronger than papaverine - but trimix has 3 drugs which should give the best result.
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rontherube

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Re: should I give VI a shot?
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2011, 03:09:15 PM »

I have only received 2 sessions of the VI, i started at 35% dorsal and am about 15% now. With 10 more to come i am atleast optomistic. RDR
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RDR

ComeBacKid

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Stay Away from Verapamil Injections!
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2011, 03:42:42 PM »

Casey,

Based on my 11 years of obsessive Peyronies Disease study, I would highly recommend you avoid both topical verapamil and VInjections, especially the injections.  Stay on pentox which is much cheaper and actually works, we've had several members say it worked, it worked for me, and studies showing it does as well.  Speaking for the other treatments I can not say the same.  You will make your condition worse by needling it with a drug that has no proven track record to work, avoid it at ALL costs.

Comebackid
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Woodman

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Re: should I give VI a shot?
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2011, 04:09:59 PM »

CBK- I agree with you on the VI injections had 12 of them after the 8 th I had loss of length & girth. Coinsidence maybe so. IMO it was from the injections. I have never read anywhere that a person had dramatic results from VIs. I do not believe the percentages from the doctors like Levine, if so after all these years we would of heard from at least one guy with great results from the injections.

This is the first time I ve really commented on the VIs. I really didn't want someone new to be steered by my distaste for them. I think it all comes down to an individual discison. I know what my doctor was selling me on the percentages and the injections helping to decrease constant pain were not correct. I felt in the end I got the used car salesman treatment.
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MikeSmith0

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Re: should I give VI a shot?
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2011, 03:09:02 AM »

CBK- I agree with you on the VI injections had 12 of them after the 8 th I had loss of length & girth. Coinsidence maybe so. IMO it was from the injections. I have never read anywhere that a person had dramatic results from VIs. I do not believe the percentages from the doctors like Levine, if so after all these years we would of heard from at least one guy with great results from the injections.

This is the first time I ve really commented on the VIs. I really didn't want someone new to be steered by my distaste for them. I think it all comes down to an individual discison. I know what my doctor was selling me on the percentages and the injections helping to decrease constant pain were not correct. I felt in the end I got the used car salesman treatment.

Woodman, I think it's good you commented... the more people that speak up, the better it will be for people here.  Otherwise, we're only getting 1 side from the docs. DR. L probably has seen some results... but it is important to note that I do not recall anyone on this forum posting about any positive results from them.  I had similar results to you...lost size and increased pain.  I know he published a paper on it but it's very common for the actual clinical experiences from doctors to contradict the literature...especially that study which I think had only 14 patients.  Another doctor commented that "there are always small studies coming out without placebo groups trying to claim to be the next big thing...then wait 2 years and nobody is doing it anymore... that's why I don't to verapamil, interferon, or whatever these anecdotal studies claim.  Steroids were a big push 20 years ago and that just made things worse. Vitamin E was a big anecdotal thing for 30 years too and that was proven ineffective."  This was a known doc (discussed here) but I'd rather not say his name since he was contradicting levine (and who knows who reads this).  And a second doc also said he did his own study with a few other docs giving verapamil but they didn't publish it because he had no results...and it's hard to publish a null-result study.  I think the only shots that are likely to work are going to be xiaflex shots... just need a few years left for phase 3 and the FDA approval.
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chefcasey

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Re: should I give VI a shot?
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2011, 02:04:46 PM »

I think that was another aspect about the ultrasound at Dr. Levines office that made me wonder about the validity of his studies.

When you get the erection inducing injection, they leave you alone for 5 minutes.  By myself I easily worked up to the best, most rigid type of erection I can get.  When the nurses come in the room to finish the ultrasound and take measurements, it gets really awkward, so the erection goes down a little, but stayed up for me at about 70% just because of the drug.  When they decided to take measurments, I informed the nurse that "hey, I really don't have a full erection."  Even so they took measurements and I measured a lot smaller than I would of, had I measured on my own. 

As far as I can tell from at least the verapamil study that he did (which noted 100% improvement in girth) they used the same type of system to measure. I don't think there's anything unethical going on, but I do think there is a HUGE risk for measurement error in these types of studies.
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pvpey

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VERAPAMIL Injections results (Positive & Negative)
« Reply #44 on: May 16, 2011, 03:09:01 PM »

New to group. Been using the Verapamil ointment for approximately 5 months now with minimal results. Supposedly the ointment can take up to a year to produce noticeable improvement. I can still function sexually and have no pain. Do have approximate 30 degree upward curvature. Urologist has been prescribing frequent masturbation or sexual activity during usage. He has also prescribed Cialis to promote blood flow, but I cannot take right now due to heart arrhythmia.

My urologist is now suggesting Verapamil injections starting in 2 days. Does anybody have any experience with this? Were the results favorable or is this a waste of time and money? I'm up for anything that will help as long as it doesn't cause more damage. I'm about to give him the go-ahead unless I hear something unfavorable here. Then I can also explore other alternative treatments in addition to the injections

I look forward to any helpful replies. Thanks in advance
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nycsurfer

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Re: Has Anybody Had Verapamil Injections-Results?
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2011, 09:51:06 PM »

Didn't do a thing for me  Condition worsened but of course hard to say if it worsened as a RESULT of the injections or despite the injections. 
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pvpey

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Re: Has Anybody Had Verapamil Injections-Results?
« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2011, 01:39:50 AM »

I don't get the hoopla about Verapamil ointment and injections being touted as a promising treatment for this disease by so many different medical sources. I have yet to hear from anybody who has shown improvement using Verapamil either topical or internal. Should I tell my urologist that I don't feel it's for me or take a shot and be one of the first to be able say that the injections helped?
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restore

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Re: Has Anybody Had Verapamil Injections-Results?
« Reply #47 on: May 17, 2011, 10:32:09 AM »

ek posted recently that he has had very good results from verapamil injections.
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hs

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Re: Has Anybody Had Verapamil Injections-Results?
« Reply #48 on: May 17, 2011, 10:47:28 AM »

I had injections with Verapamil more than ten years ago and it really did have an effect as the hard lumps of plaque disappeared and the angle of the penis was reduced from approximately 45 to 15 degrees. There were several injections (the exact number I can’t remember)  The uro was an experienced surgeon and I think he did a good job. I guess clinical experience and practical talent is everything for the outcome of this kind of treatment.
There is however still a lack in elasticity and there is a significant reduction both in length and girth. As I am in the lower part of the normal segment when it comes to penis size the reduction has been problematic to me. Otherwise my penis looks quite normal and it really was a relief to get rid of these hard lumps of plaque.

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rontherube

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Re: Has Anybody Had Verapamil Injections-Results?
« Reply #49 on: May 17, 2011, 10:52:58 AM »

I have had 5 injections, saw improvement after the first, Have one scheduled this week then new sonogram next week. Could see minor improvement then. Was 35% dorsal now 15% it was worth the try for me
RDR
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RDR
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