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Author Topic: VED usage Studies & Doctors recommendations (or not)  (Read 17588 times)

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george t

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VED usage Studies & Doctors recommendations (or not)
« on: April 15, 2010, 07:51:01 PM »

I go to UROLOGY CENTERS OF ALABAMA and have been under the care of CHRIS SPIVEY for Peyronies diesease for almost two years. If any one has questions about what I have had or how it has worked with the VED feel free to ask me about it.
I call Chris WONDER WOMAN-- her treatment has lessened my pain and improved curvature. Also had verapimil injections by her as well

George T
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Old Man

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Re: CHRIS SPIVEY TREATMENT
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2010, 09:18:27 PM »

george t:

Several of us on this forum have been trying to keep up with Chris Spivey and her VED therapy with the three cylinder VEDs. I have requested from her several times to give the forum the benefit of her results of the trials she conducted. As of this date, there has been no word from her in any form.

I personally wrote her several times stating my position with the Peyronies Disease forum and specifically asked that she give us some knowledge about here ongoing trials, etc. So, I deduced that it was proprietary with her clinic and none would be forthcoming.

Quite a number of guys have been using the original 26 week therapy that was developed by Augusta Medical Systems for the Soma Correct VED therapy they proposed, etc. Since that VED never got approved by FDA for Peyronies Disease therapy, it was removed from the market.

About that same time I was informed about the Spivey trials. So, in the ensuing period(s) of time we tried to learn more about the why and wherefores of her study. Never happened, so we just gave up.

Now, if you have any further knowledge about the results of her clinical study, would you share that information with us?

Welcome aboard the Peyronies Disease forum!!!

Old Man
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Steve

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Re: CHRIS SPIVEY TREATMENT
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2010, 09:04:09 AM »

George,  DEFINATELY fill us in on Chris's VED methodology (if you can)...I for one (unfortunately) have been through the 26 week regimen that Old Man mentioned without any success  :( I'd somewhat given up...if there's another thing to try, I'd sure like to re-start my attempts at straightening out--no pain, but still about a 70 degree upturn :(

Welcome to the boards!
Steve
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Topical Verapamil,
12 Verapamil shots (ouch!),
Now VED - Too many Weeks,
Still 70 Degrees :(

GS

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Re: CHRIS SPIVEY TREATMENT
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2010, 10:47:01 AM »

I Googled "chris spivey peyronies" and got quite a bit of information.  She has a testimonial with Fitzz that says she has treated a thousand men with the three cylinder VED with very positive results in most cases.  Her protocol is basically the same as we have, with few exceptions.  There is another protocol shown under peyroniesprotocol.com that is very encouraging.

I guess this is all to say that, if we just all listen to Old Man, and stay the course through however many protocols it takes, good things will eventually happen.

I am in my 11th week of the protocol and I think I am making progress.

GS
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Old Man

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Re: CHRIS SPIVEY TREATMENT
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2010, 03:11:22 PM »

GS:

The protocol that Chris Spivey used in her clinical trials with the three cylinder VED therapy is the same one that was used by the Soma Correct three cylinder VED that Augusta Medical Systems sold for Peyronies Disease therapy. The Soma was taken off the market and Augusta no longer includes the protocol in their VED packages they sell.

However, since I had access to the protocol when I got my Soma Correct, we simply adopted it for use by this forum. It has a proven track record by many guys on and off the forum, but no formal study result has ever been formulated. We just accept the fact that it does work in most cases and is at least a good way to proceed with Peyronies Disease therapy.

Hopefully, I will be able to get the results of the Spivey study soon if all goes well. I am very anxious and curious to know what her overall results were with the 1000 man group.

Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

GS

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Re: CHRIS SPIVEY TREATMENT
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2010, 10:35:18 AM »

I'm in my 13th week of the protocol, which is the large cylinder.  After getting my penis engorged with blood, I have about a 10 to 15 degree bend.  According to Chris Spivey's protocol, she suggests moving back to a smaller cylinder to confine the bend.  I have no bend in the medium cylinder.

Obviously, this question is for Old Man, but I thought others should know about my question and everyone should see if he agrees with her advice.  Other than the bend with the large cylinder, all is going well.

GS
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Old Man

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Re: CHRIS SPIVEY TREATMENT
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2010, 11:44:15 AM »

GS:

I see nothing wrong by repeating the protocol from the first week of the B cylinder series. The more that you hold the bend in a confined area, the more straightening effect you should see. Just be sure to not over pump the pressure.

Hopefully, we can the Spivey method or her protocol soon and maybe get it posted on the forum.

Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

newguy

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Quote
Study Type - Therapy (case series) Level of Evidence 4 OBJECTIVE To assess the efficacy of vacuum therapy in mechanically straightening the penile curvature of Peyronie's disease (Peyronies Disease). PATIENTS AND METHODS Modelling of the tunica albuginea has been shown to be possible during penile implant surgery and this principle has been applied as an alternative conservative therapy. In all, 31 patients with Peyronies Disease (mean duration 9.9 months; mean age 51 years, range 24-71) completed the study. Over a 12-week period, the patients used a vacuum device (Osbon ErecAid(R), MediPlus, High Wycombe, UK) for 10 min twice daily. The assessment at study entry and at completion after 12 weeks included the International Index of Erectile Function questionnaire, a perceived pain intensity score, stretched penile length measurement and the angle of penile deformity after an intracavernous injection with prostaglandin E1. RESULTS There was a clinically and statistically significant improvement in penile length, angle of curvature and pain after 12 weeks of using the vacuum pump. Of the 31 patients, 21 had a reduction in the angle of curvature by 5-25 degrees , three had worsening of the curvature and there was no change in the remaining seven. The curvature was corrected surgically in 15 patients while the remaining 16 (51%) were satisfied with the outcome. CONCLUSION Vacuum therapy can improve or stabilize the curvature of Peyronies Disease, is safe to use in all stages of the disease, and might reduce the number of patients going on to surgery.
- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20438558    http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/123375226/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0 

Forgive me if this has already been posted but I couldn't find it. As far as I know VED studies are extremely limited, so this is positive. It was carried out under David Ralph, who is a credible UK peyronie's expert (Levine recommended him). Of note is that the study was just 12 weeks, but had positive results in most patients. I have no precise info on the treatment aside from the timescale stated. To me, this reaffirms the usefulness of this type of therapy. It would be nice to know more about this study. From the second link, it looks like it's online, but I can't personally access it.
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skunkworks

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Good find mate, first study I've seen on VED and by the looks of it extremely recent.
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Review of current treatment options by Levine and Sherer]

Rickmud

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I'm all for the VED. I have finished 8 weeks using it per the three cylinder protocol. I have seen no improvement yet in the angle of my bend when erect but I have regained about an inch and a half of length. I am back to the length I was before peyronnies. My erections appear to be getting straighter but only in the few hours after pumping. I am hoping to decrease the bend over time.
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Old Man

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Rickmud:

Glad to hear that you have regained your length after only 8 weeks of the VED therapy. Just stay on course with the protocol and I am sure that you will begin to see more changes taking place in the weeks to come.

Peyronies Disease is not going to go away easily as it probably came on over time. Just hang in there with the therapy. Keep the forum posted on how things develop for you in the straightening department.

Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

newguy

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Does anybody have the ability to gain access to the full study, so that we can see if further insights can be gleamed? Thanks.
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BrooksBro

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  • Houston TX, Peyronie's 2009, Dr. Larry Lipshultz

It is $29.95 USD to buy the PDF.
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newguy

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I purchased the full study. If there is issue with including it here, feel free to remove it. If not, maybe it can be placed in the resources area.

Info relating to the process used:

"Over a 12-week period, the patients used a
vacuum device (Osbon ErecAid®, MediPlus,
High Wycombe, UK; Figs 1,2) without the
constriction ring, for 10 min twice daily to
stretch the penis. The cylinder was applied to
the penis and slowly inflated until the penis
was erect and maintained in this position for
3 min. The vacuum was then released to allow
the erection to subside and the process
repeated over a 10-min period. Patients were
encouraged to remain compliant with the
protocol by 2-weekly telephone calls from the
study nurse practitioner. The patients also
completed a daily diary to monitor their pump
use and assess their compliance. This study
had ethical approval"
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shrout

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Looks like a useful study... :)

I'm feeling a bit miffed though.  >:(  I live only 10 miles from High Wycombe, and I've also been seen by a colleague of Mr. Ralph's a couple of times at UCH in London where I know Mr. Ralph also has a surgery.  At no time was this study even mentioned. Why? I'd have been a willing participant.  Is it exclusively for patients of Mr. Ralph?

Does anyone know how you get to take part in these studies?
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newguy

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Looks like a useful study... :)

I'm feeling a bit miffed though.  >:(  I live only 10 miles from High Wycombe, and I've also been seen by a colleague of Mr. Ralph's a couple of times at UCH in London where I know Mr. Ralph also has a surgery.  At no time was this study even mentioned. Why? I'd have been a willing participant.  Is it exclusively for patients of Mr. Ralph?

Does anyone know how you get to take part in these studies?

I can see why that would be irritating. I guess they work to their own timescales and for all intentd and purposes are possibly a bit behind the times. VED useage on this site has been praised for quite some time, and their study came about due to reports of success, and success in other areas (post operative etc). Many urologists don't rate VED use at all, some I've read about on here have laughed at the the proscpect of such treatments being useful. Though this study is quite small and not as informative as I'd like it to be (i couldn't find anything on cylinder sizes - it appears that one cylinder is used??), it at least is fairly positive, and a step in the right direction.
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Skjaldborg

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Newguy,

Thanks for posting. Although it's a small study, I think it will encourage more urologists to consider it as a serious treatment option (with few side effects, I might add), and may lead to larger studies. Perhaps we can get the publisher to agree to allow this site access to the study. It seems like a good candidate to print out along with the pentox studies and bring along to urologists who are on the fence about Peyronie's treatments. Perhaps the publishers would agree to a flat fee for the right to do so. I would be willing to contribute.

The only bummer: none of the patients experienced improvement in hourglass/waisting or indentation deformities and those are my main problems. Loss of length and curvature are very minor for me and not worth the effort/costs of VED right now. I won't rule it out in the future though.

Still, a great study and I hope this leads to more research. We need all the good news we can get.

-Skjald
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Old Man

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Note to all:

Just read the study published as an attachment to Newguy's post below. I noted that the VED used for this research was the Old Osbon Erecaid Esteem one cylinder model. I have one of the first units that the Osbon company marketed way back in 1995 or 1996. It has served me well for those 15 years and still operates well.

There is a one cylinder protocol posted in the VED board under the name of one cylinder VED, etc. This protocol was developed by myself under the guidance of my personal uro way back then. It was successful in helping with my Peyronies Disease symptoms and today, there are no visible signs or ever having Peyronies Disease at all.

I would suggest that those who are using the Osbon Esteem one cylinder VED to follow that protocol. It can and will assist many in helping with their Peyronies Disease symptoms.

The study is well written and describes everything in enough detail that makes it clear to understand and follow. Their success rate appears to support the theory that VED therapy is a viable means of getting relief from Peyronies Disease.

Many thanks to Newguy for downloading and posting the link here.

Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

jackp

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Old Man

The single cylinder VED therapy you gave me was a life saver for me. It helped when nothing else would.

It kept me functioning and helped keep my penis healthy until I could get my implant at Vanderbilt.

Thank you for all the support you gave me and others.

Jackp
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Jackieo

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Newguy:
Sorry to be away for so long!  Thank you for posting the study.
I am a firm believer in VED Therapy and have positive results as proof.
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Jackieo

ComeBacKid

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When I brought up the VED to my urologist, him and the resident just about laughed me out of the examining room, they told me that was the laugh of the week for them!
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Old Man

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Hey guys:

Some well known uros are still laughing at the VED therapy. So, don't despair, just keep on pumping to see good results in most all cases. The least one can received in benefits is a more healthy penis!!!

Old Man
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pichou

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I know VED therapy has helped me a great deal. I also know as a healthcare professional that any doctor who laughs at a patient does not deserve to have that person as a patient. Get rid of that doctor ASAP & get one that is willing to listen to you.

Pichou
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skunkworks

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Looks like a useful study... :)

I'm feeling a bit miffed though.  >:(  I live only 10 miles from High Wycombe, and I've also been seen by a colleague of Mr. Ralph's a couple of times at UCH in London where I know Mr. Ralph also has a surgery.  At no time was this study even mentioned. Why? I'd have been a willing participant.  Is it exclusively for patients of Mr. Ralph?

Does anyone know how you get to take part in these studies?

Exclusion criteria included severe
erectile dysfunction not responding to
phosphodiesterase-5 inhibitors or
intracavernous therapy, the absence of a
penile curvature, previous penile surgery and
lack of manual dexterity for operating pump.

Any of that apply to you?
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shrout

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Nope. I have no Erectile Dysfunction to speak of, approximately 45 degree bend, no previous surgery, and I'm pretty handy with the VED (though I say so myself  :) ).

Many thanks though. I have a contact number for Mr.Christopher's secretary (the chap I saw at UCH). I think I'll give her a call.

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Old Man

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Shrout:

Since you have a good working relationship with the VED therapy, I suggest that you establish a good routine with the VED and stay with the protocol. You can modify or adjust the cycles to suit your individual needs, i.e. holding times, amount of pressure and overall time of each session as well as doing two sessions per day.

Patience is the watchword with any protocol, so take your time, stay with the program and not let anything interfere with your desire to get help with the Peyronies Disease.

Keep us up to date on any changes that you see with your individual case of Peyronies Disease.

Old Man
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Davea

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When I brought up the VED to my urologist, him and the resident just about laughed me out of the examining room, they told me that was the laugh of the week for them!

I wouldn't wish this disease on anybody - with the possible exception of anyone who thinks it's funny.....
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samsabina

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VED usage studies & doctors recommendations
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2011, 08:21:28 PM »

Long story short:
I've been under Dr. Mulhall's care here in NY for a year, got 18 Veraprimil shots, and did a year with an andropenis stretcher. Simultaneously, I did most of the stuff on the PDI/Herazy website: vitamin E, Paba, Neprinol, Acetel L-carnitine, Vitamin C, and topical E/topical sulphur with DMSO for absorption.

The shots were done every other week for six shots, then waited three months, then did them again. Mulhall, a urologist at Memorial Sloane Kettering, is associated with Levine but does not do the "cocktail" or any supplements along with the Veraprimil (which is why I created my own schedule of the supplement stuff).

I went from an unusable hourglass *and* 30 degree deformity upwards to a 15 degree sideways curve, and a longer slimming instead of a pinched hourglass. I think the shots (really more like multiple punctures) weakened the plaques while the stretcher elongated them over a greater area, lessening their impact on function. Basically, remodeling a bit in real time.

So with 25mg of Viagra, the penis is usable which is certainly good news. But I'd like to try some other things to see if I can get a bit stronger. Plus, I feel like I might have a new tiny pea-size plaque ventrally I'd like to see go away.

That's why I've just purchased the 3-tube VED, and got Trental shipped from a Canadian pharmacy (no prescription), along with Arginine/citrulline and some Co-Q.

But what I want to know, before I go on the 26-week protocol described here, is if Dr. Levine also has a protocol for the VED machine? It was suggested in two places here that he was suggesting an alternative regime. Does anyone know what it is?

I'm also happy to answer questions about the PDI stuff and Dr. Herazy. I know folks here aren't quite sure what to make of him, but I have found him to be very helpful. He is certainly "alternative," but he is not a quack.
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chefcasey

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Re: Dr Levine's VED Protocol?
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2011, 01:02:06 AM »

I am a patient of Dr. Levine and I know that like Dr. Mulhall, he prefers traction devices and verapamil over VED.  He recommends pentox and L-arginine along with cialis or viagra for those with Erectile Dysfunction.  A number of us on here have also added coq10 with the others as well. 

He did do a study on people receiving verpamil injections vs. verapamil injections and VED use.  His conclusion was that the verapimil only group did better than the VI+ ved group.  In his study, patients were told to use up to 30 minute holding periods to stretch the tissue, and this may be the reason that it did not turn out well.  Trial and error amongst many members of this forum has found that the best results come from short holding period times, roughly 10-15 seconds, and more cycles of pumping and holding vs. long holding times.  Since you have the 3 cylinder model, it's best to follow the 26 week ved protocol listed in the VED board. 

As far as Herazy, we don't neccesarily think he's a quack.  We just think it's a bit strange as to why he only mentions treatments that he himself can sell you.  For instance, there is more positive research on pentox than any other oral treatment to fighting Peyronies Disease, yet if you read his website you can't find one bit of information on it.  There are also many accounts of men using VED's and traction devices, which are still considered by most, not mainstream, and yet he doesn't count them as a viable alternative treatment because he doesn't sell them.  I do know that many of us are interested to hear about what is involved in that mysterious manual stretching video of his though.
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samsabina

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Re: Dr Levine's VED Protocol?
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2011, 07:18:17 AM »

Thanks so much for the reply.
Yeah, the traction and VED work quite quite differently, from what I can tell. The traction requires sustained stretching, and is really an adjunct to the injection therapy. The scar is not healed or reduced, as much as stretched over a longer distance along the shaft. It is treated a bit like hardened Playdo. Broken up with the needle, then stretched with the traction device. That stretching takes hours of concentrated effort. Stretching does not bring any blood into the penis. It's just a flaccid little penis, stretched.

The VED appears more intended to fill the sponga with blood, serving to augment things like arginine or low-dose viagra, which are all about improving blood flow to the tissue and healing the scarring itself - much like "jelqing," one of the first therapies I saw for this, demonstrated by a guy named Viscone.

As for Herazy, I get that he only talks about stuff he sells - but he only sells the stuff he believes works. He could make a ton on stretchers but won't sell them, because he believes all these devices (stretchers, VED, and anything that tugs hard on the penis) are more the cause or Pyronie's than the cure. He says a lot of the people coming to him originally injured themselves with these devices, or stretched beyond the point that the tunica could tolerate, and so on.

Plus he is into "teaching" tissue new habits rather than forcing tissue into new places. So, his manual stretching method is really about pulling super gently on the penis, in whatever ways the scar inhibits. So a left-pointing person would bend the penis maybe at a 45 degree angle the other way, perhaps using the thumb as the wedge. Or simply pull gently from above and below the scar. Like the amount of pressure you would put against your eye. It is super subtle.

He would argue our crowd's inability do subtle, patient things, to be gentle with ourselves, and so on. He sees a Peyronie's personality out there - a short-tempered impatience. He also believes Peyronie's people often lack certain digestive enzymes - the ones that metabolize Vitamin E, for example. And that we don't chew our food enough, and so on. He's against viagra and other drugs because he thinks they create a super-engorged state that makes us vulnerable to injury. And he credits those drugs with the increase of Peyronie's among college-age people.

He does sell some strange and expensive things - ones that are a tougher sell, in my opinion, than a stretcher or VED. Magnetic accupuncture needles, videos of chi kung for Peyronie's. But as a fellow Peyronie's sufferer who says he cured himself over years of using this stuff, he surely wants his patients to get better.

I'm not sure about the Trental. I can't even get Dr. Mulhall to prescribe it for me, so I don't blame a chiropractor for rejecting prescription Big Pharma medication. Mulhall gives his stubborn cases Colchicine. He doesn't like to do surgery (though he does) because of the high rate of leakage that occurs after.

You guys also know that they won't do injections for ventrally located scars? That kind of sucks for me, as I've got a lot of ventral activity. I'm hoping that at two years into the disease and with supposedly stable scars, that the Trental can still have an effect.

If someone wants more info on the gentle stretching technique from the video (I don't really do it myself, but may start) let me know.
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strateahed

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Re: Dr Levine's VED Protocol?
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2011, 02:42:20 PM »

This is a little off the original poster's topic, but I'd like to weigh in on my personal experience with Mr. Herazy's therapies (I can't call him Dr. because he's not an MD). I have to agree with the previous conjecture that Herazy does not support any therapy or treatment for which he does not or cannot receive direct financial benefit. I purchased pretty much every supplement and topical treatment he sells. This includes the "Stretching Video". I have also been willing to try most every approach he suggests. My results have been very limited. Through direct email correspondence with Mr. Herazy I learned that my limited results is likely due to "lack of patience and commitment to the recommended program."

As stated previously, Herazy recommends against the FastSize traction and other similar devices. This is because of the stress it places on the penis, which (according to him) is extremely dangerous if the penis were to go into an erect state while stretched. HOWEVER, he sells a device (which I purchased) called the Erektor. This stretches and holds the flaccid/erect penis in a straight position to allow sex. It prevents the penis from buckling and causing further damage. So why is this "good" stretching and the other is "bad"? I went ahead and bought the FastSize, and have obtained some limited results in terms of erection quality. My bend is about the same as before.

As far as VED therapy goes, Herazy is dead set against this, even though some men have achieved positive outcomes. He makes no distinction between porn shop vacuum pumps and medical grade VED's such as those sold by Augusta Systems. Again, without the profit motive, it appears that he will not even consider the possibility that this is a viable alternative to treating Peyronies Disease. That said, I am about to embark on the 26-week Protocol. 

Finally, there is this anti-Erectile Dysfunction drug sentiment from the Herazy camp. Credible websites such as Web MD and Johns Hopkins put the Peyronies Disease incident rate at anywhere from 3 to 5 percent of the male population. Our numbers are very few. Why then, with Viagra being the #1 best selling drug of all time (in its first year), hasn't the incidence of Peyronies Disease been through the roof? Given the legal and liability exposure associated with pharmaceutical prescriptions, why isn't Peyronies Disease on the long list of "possible negative side-effects" and other disclaimers?

Many of us - myself included - have been willing to try almost anything at any cost ... as long as it works.       
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samsabina

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Re: Dr Levine's VED Protocol?
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2011, 01:14:40 PM »

I would agree with what you are saying except for the accusation of profit-motive.

It is true that he does not sell the items he does not recommend. If he did like those things, he could sell them. There are numerous medical-grade vacuum pumps that can be sold at a profit by a distributor.

As for the concern about Viagra, I actually agree with his assessment. One reason why Peyronie's *is* hitting a much higher percentage of people, particularly younger men in their twenties, could be the use of these medications. When used for entertainment as opposed to Erectile Dysfunction, they create a bigger hard-on than people get naturally - one much more vulnerable to the micro-tears that scar the tunica. Of course, only those pre-disposed genetically to the disease actually manifest in the abnormal plaques of Peyronie's.

Meanwhile, sadly I think, Mulhall is dead-set against Levine's Pentox/Arginine/Viagra cocktail. I've asked him for it a number of times, and he says there is no human evidence to support their use and won't do it. I have gone ahead and put myself on Pentox/Arginine and a big regimen of the other supplements talked about here (magnesium, carnitine, coq10, acetyl l Carnitine, as well as Neprinol and topical E/DMSO from Herazy's site). I figure if it isn't hurting it could be helping.  Mulhall *did* say I have had the best reaction he's seen to the veraprimil shots, so I'm thinking the supplements could have been assisting the work.

I'm also doing both the stretcher for a few hours *and* the Vacuum twice a day in the schedule suggested here. Full court press.
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Luciano

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Study on ved usage
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2011, 07:39:32 AM »

I stumbled into a european study about 3 cyinder VED use.
Maybe it is allready know to everybody but it was new to me.

study by Benny Verheyden, MD
Andrology Unit, Department of Urology
Antwerp University Hospital

http://peyroniesprotocol.com/studies.cfm

Quote
Results:
After 3 weeks:
In none of the patients was there any reduction of the curvature angle. Few patients considered their plaques softer and less pain full by palpation. This was subjective and not confirmed by the observer.
Three patients complaining from pain in the plaque had this pain resolved after three weeks.

After 3 months:
In 10/12 patients, the angle of the curvature was reduced at least with 75% (visual appreciation).
Measured reduction of the curvature was in 9/12 patients at least 50% with a mean of 70% (89%-34%).
In 7/12 patients, the curvature disappeared completely (visual appreciation). The measured curvature in these patients was less than 15.
10/12 patients were satisfied with their treatment and continued the study.
In 2/12 patients, the treatment was not successful. One patient had an erection prosthesis resolving both his problems of Erectile Dysfunction and curvature. The other patient had a severe curvature existing for 4 years, resistant to the treatment.
In 10/12 patients, the plaque softened, in 5 among them the plaque has disappeared almost or even completely. In 7/12 patients, the fibrotic plaque could be visualized on ultrasound. In 5/7 patients, this plaque could not be demonstrated after 3 months.
In the study Patients applied the vacuum therapy system for fifteen minutes (three times, five minutes) for three months. (it does not say what protocol they were using)

But on the site, they have a 26 week protocol that is identical to the one posted here.

(Here in the fourm, the sticky saying protocol, not the one with the spreadsheet)

Actually here in the forum i saw a slight difference in the 2 sticky posts (the protocol and the spreadsheet)
The difference is in the first 4 weeks.
In one, you are told to use small, medium, small, medium
the other tells you to use small, small, medium, medium

(as the difference is only in first 4 weeks, I guess it will not make realy difference on the 26 weeks)

The interesting new thing for me was that there was a study (even though only 12 people) that seemed very encouraging

Luc
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fubar

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Re: Study on ved usage
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2011, 10:17:02 AM »

Luc

Thank you for the information! Been a while for Ved encouraged use.This therapy takes time and just like any may help or fail depending on an individuals commitment or extent of damage from the disease.Could you povide a link to this study?I know some guys who would find motivation to continue their ved therapy.Positive information for any of the treatments and medications is supportive to ones mental health and well being.

I'm getting my vitality ved and doing a session at this moment.Thanks aigain!

Fubar

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Luciano

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Re: Study on ved usage
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2011, 11:13:08 AM »

hmmm the link is there:
here i post it again: http://peyroniesprotocol.com/studies.cfm
Luc


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fubar

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Re: Study on ved usage
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2011, 05:11:58 PM »

Luc

Sorry for the oversight on my part, did not see it at the time.Thanks again!

Fubar
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Luciano

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Re: Study on ved usage
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2011, 02:58:40 AM »

No problem,
there is another ved usage study, (I had seen it here somewhere allready, but cant find it anymore)
it was in my bookmarks so it has to be from here...
Just reposting it:
http://www.popcull.com/vedstudy.pdf
Luc
They use a twice a day 10 minute protocol, but I think the one posted here is better, because holding for 15 seconds would do less harm than 3 Minutes.
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jetedwardz

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Re: Study on ved usage
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2011, 10:17:53 PM »

did i see that i can longer get the 3 cylinders anymore
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charlie44

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Urologist (known for Peyronies) says VED can worsen the situation...
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2011, 11:29:43 PM »

I've had Peyronies about 5 months, and am being treated by Culley Carson who is somewhat known as a Peyronies expert. My issues are dents/hourglassing. I asked him about using a VED and he said not to. He said it can make Peyronies worse. I assume using any device incorrectly can make something worse, but he just made a blanket statement that it's not recommended.

Surprising an "expert" is not for it, with what seems to be a lot of positive results per this board?

Also, I greatly appreciate this board....it has helped me a lot in dealing with this.
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jackp

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Re: Urologist (known for Peyronies) says VED can worsen the situation...
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2011, 11:43:29 PM »

Dr. Carson is in the minority on the use of a VED for peyronies with hourglassing and dents.

Other famous doctors like Dr. Milam, Dr. Dinnen, Dr. Wilson and others disagree. There is a study published on the subject on my blog.

I he feels that way you may want to take a trip to Nashville for a consultation with Dr. Milam at Vanderbilt. I have pictures of a young pan that Dr. Milam did an implant for. He had with peyronies with Erectile Dysfunction, hourglassing and dents. It is amazing what Dr. Milam's modeling procedure will do. He now looks normal and has sex better than any young man his age.

Jackp
http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com/
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newguy

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Re: Urologist (known for Peyronies) says VED can worsen the situation...
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2011, 11:47:47 PM »

Well, I guess anything can potentially worsen a situation. Many men with peyronie's disease are likely quite susceptable to further injury. It's all about weighing up the options though, and from my time here I can honestly say that when used correctly the VED seems to have an extremely low rate of complications. There's a significant up side to using it, and not much to lose. It's used for men post Prostatectomy too, and has been proven to make a significant difference to recovery there. I wonder if the urologist is against traction too? If he's that worries about VED it wouldn't make any sense for him to approve of any mechanical option. I can undertand him being against if it's unlikely to help due to the nature of your specific condition, but his statement seems very sweeping.
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goodluck

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Re: Urologist (known for Peyronies) says VED can worsen the situation...
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2011, 01:06:48 PM »

I have been astonished over the years at what "Experts" Know and don't know.  You can only understand where he is coming from if he can explain how he believes the VED makes the situation worse.  It does not sound like he explained his comment. 

Is there anyone here, who had increased their problems from VED use?

There seems to be a number of people here who have had success with the VED.  Those with more experiece may offer some theory as to how the VED may cause issues if not used with common sence.  In particular to hourglassing and dents.

John Park's site also says that the VED can cause worsening of problems.  I don't recall if he says why.  I know most here don't give his site too much credance becasue he is selling products.   One product he sells are traction devices which are in competion with the VED.

These days too many doctors are getting their advice from sales people.  "Sales oriented science" is ruining our health system and  truely an impediment to helping people heal.  (i am off my soap box now)

I am not suggesting this is the case with your doctor but you need to be cognizant of this situation.

To help build perspective it would be good to know your propsed treatment protocol. Does this doctor indicate his success rate?  Does he often recommend surgery?  Is he using Pentox and/or Ubiquinol?

GoodLuck
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Old Man

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Re: Urologist (known for Peyronies) says VED can worsen the situation...
« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2011, 03:59:56 PM »

goodluck

About the only way I know of that would cause more problems with Peyronies Disease when using the VED is to overpump the negative pressure and hold it way too long. This surely will cause edema (swelling of the foreskin if not circumcised or shaft skin due to the higher than required pressure) if the pressure is overpumped and not released as soon as pain or discomfort is realized.

It is kind of like priapism (erection lasting 4 hours or more) that some guys have experienced. It is a side effect of the erection pills in some cases. This condition must not be allowed to happen, but it does, one must get to an emergency room for relief ASAP. Otherwise, permanent damage to ones most prized possession will occur.

Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

charlie44

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Re: Urologist (known for Peyronies) says VED can worsen the situation...
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2011, 02:13:54 PM »

To answer a previous poster, he did recommend Pentox right away and come back in 90 days. The disease has progressed some since then (six weeks ago)....I am hoping it does not progress any more!
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newguy

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Re: Urologist (known for Peyronies) says VED can worsen the situation...
« Reply #44 on: September 16, 2011, 10:14:09 AM »

To answer a previous poster, he did recommend Pentox right away and come back in 90 days. The disease has progressed some since then (six weeks ago)....I am hoping it does not progress any more!

Well that is good news at least. It is often said on here that sometimes the situation gets worse before it gets better. Pentox is very much a long term treatment, and should be viewed in terms of blocks of months, rather than days or weeks. The worsening of a condition can sometimes lead to people chucking in the towel in relation to a particular treatment, but with pentox that would be a bad idea.
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Ralf3

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Re: Urologist (known for Peyronies) says VED can worsen the situation...
« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2011, 10:20:57 AM »

I would like to ask you if it is necessary to use the three cylinder VED when there is no curvature, good overall erection...but dents, narrowing and shortening..? is enough to use some of the classic VEDs for exmple? can you recommend something?

thanks a lot!
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Old Man

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Re: Urologist (known for Peyronies) says VED can worsen the situation...
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2011, 11:14:58 AM »

Ralf3:

One can get some results from using the one cylinder VEDs when no curve/bend is present, but have hourglass or shortening symptoms. The one cylinder Osbon Esteem VED is the one I used to get rid of my Peyronies Disease symptoms way back in 1995.

Currently, the Vitality one cylinder VED is still available for around $100.00 plus S&H from this site:

www.diabetessupplies4less.com

It does not require an RX and is a good medical quality VED. If you decide on getting this model VED, look up the one cylinder protocol on the VED board section on the home page when you sign/log in.

Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

goodluck

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Re: Urologist (known for Peyronies) says VED can worsen the situation...
« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2011, 10:25:41 PM »

Old man,

Thanks for the link. At $97.99, it is a good deal as the next cheapest elsewhere is about $120 + S&H. 
It is a bit frustration that you miss their free shipping by $1.01. Still the total cost if shipped in the US is about $105.

Thanks,

good luck

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Laddie

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Re: Urologist (known for Peyronies) says VED can worsen the situation...
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2011, 12:53:06 AM »


Is there anyone here, who had increased their problems from VED use?

GoodLuck

I've had a number of increased problems since starting a VED, but I have no idea if there's a correlation between use and the problems that have appeared in the last five months (it's been a year since my injury and 10 months since the first curve started). I've had several new plaques appear that weren't there before VED use, and my curve has shifted from maybe 40 degrees to 80 degrees. The new plaques have caused denting. My doctor assures me that proper use of the VED wouldn't cause the new plaques, though I've not had enough intercourse to explain how such plaques could be caused -- or if it is related to intercourse, than I'm getting one new plaque for every two encounters, which is very discouraging. So, I can't say VED use with the protocol found on here makes things worse or not. But, something is making my situation increasingly dire, and VED use hasn't curtailed the problems.
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Old Man

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Re: Urologist (known for Peyronies) says VED can worsen the situation...
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2011, 10:04:35 AM »

Laddie:

You did not state the routine that you are using the VED. VED therapy is not an overnight therapy and must be followed on a daily basis. Once started you should continue on a definite schedule as spelled out in the VED protocol for the type VED you have. There are two protocols listed in the VED board section - one for the one cylinder models and one for the three cylinder models. They are basically the same schedule, but differ in which cylinder you use so each protocol spells out the cylinder to be used, etc.

From my personal experience, the VED therapy does not cause another plaque to form. Possibly you are still in the acute stage of the Peyronies Disease "developing" so to speak and should stabilize at some point in time. Early use of the VED therapy usually helps stop the curving/bends and hourglass effect.

Strongly suggest that you stay on the daily schedule of VED therapy at least until you have some indication that it is not helping. In my personal case with a 45 degree bend downward and 45 degree to the right when erect, it took just over a year of daily use to rid me of the Peyronies Disease symptoms.

So, have patience and keep up the therapy schedule. If you need further help, just ask.

Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.
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