Hi all.  My first post here.

Here are my answers to the "new post" questions:
- 42 years old.
- I have "significant" Peyronie's plaque, but nearly zero curvature because the scar tissue is symmetrical (pulls the same amount in all directions).
- I've had Peyronie's for roughly 8 months, but wasn't aware of it until 3 months ago.
- I'm being treated by Dr. John Mulhall at Sloan Kettering in NYC and have insurance to cover the cost.
- The only treatment prescribed by Dr. Mulhall thus far is use of a traction device.  I have the US Physiomed (formerly FastSize) device.  I use it 6-8 hours per day on weekdays, but don't use it at all on weekends.
- I am married. The Peyronie's doesn't interfere with intimacy with my wife.



Here's the background:
11 months ago I had surgery to remove my prostate due to cancer.  The surgery was successful (removed all the cancer), but I have the usual side-effect of ED, which is progressively improving.  I use Viagra and injections to achieve full erections.

3 months ago I went to Dr. John Mulhall at Sloan Kettering in NYC to discuss my ED progress. During the examination, he diagnosed me with Peyronie's.  The reason that I hadn't noticed myself it is because I have almost no curvature. Dr. Mulhall believes that my Peyronie's is stable and will not get worse.

My scar tissue is two identical thick bands, one on each side of my penis, starting 1/3 of the way from the base and extending all the way to the tip. I had an ultrasound and curvature assessment. The curvature is less than 10 degrees to the left, and then an immediate correction of 10 degrees to the right.  In total, the penis still "points" straight ahead, with a minimally noticeable shift to the left 2/3 of the way from the base.

Prior to prostate surgery my erect size was 6 inches.  The effect of the prostate surgery and Peyronie's reduced the erect size to 5.25 inches.

I am using a traction device for 6-8 hours per day (weekdays only), stretching my penis as much as I can comfortably (which is sometimes even a bit uncomfortable).  Per Dr. Mulhall's instructions, I never use the traction device for more than 2 hours at a time.  Initially I used the "lasso" strap, which caused skin lesions behind the corona.  I switched to a different technique that I saw on another site: to put a baby's sock over the front of the penis and use a velcro strap instead of the "lasso".  This technique works well for me.

I alternate between Viagra and bimix injection for erections until my ED improves.  Very firm erections are sometimes mildly painful due to the Peyronie's, and intercourse with my wife can be mildly painful if I enter her in a way that causes my firm erection to bend.

I'm using the traction device for a few reasons: 1) Dr. Mulhall told me that it will help "stretch" or "break-up" (I can't recall his exact words) the scar tissue; 2) I would like to regain the .75 inches of erect size that I lost due to surgery/Peyronie's.


My questions:
1) Is using a traction device alone an adequate therapy for my case?
2) Is it correct to use as much tension as I can handle, for the most hours I can handle, to get the best/fastest results?
3) If the traction device succeeds in restoring my penis size and eliminating the minimal curvature, is there hope that the occasional mild pain during erections/intercourse will also be reduced?

Thanks,

Gedman

Gedman,

Sorry you're here but hopefully you'll find this forum to be a good resource for you.  A lot of guys here would say that anyone who is predisposed to peyronies should reconsider using injections for an erection... definitely something to think about.

I would like to hear more about your success with traction (or lack thereof).  I'm thinking about starting it myself.

Regarding intimacy with your wife, I think you're a very lucky man that this condition has not impact quality of life in that regard.

Thanks for sharing your story with us.

Anon

Gedman;
Sorry for all happened to you and welcome.
I have almost the same problem (significant symmetrical plaque without curve), I asked my uro about traction device he said me it can help to correct the curve nothing more, if your Peyronies Disease is stable VED could be better for you to regain size and achieve erection.
is your plaque calcified? if not, why the doctor did not suggest you oral treatment?
be careful with traction device in Peyronies Disease any force and exercise can cause new injury and worsening.
regards.
Memo
 

Gedman

First I will advice you not to use Bimix or any kind of injections. We have/had many members got here because use of injections to the penis that caused them Peyronies.
Traction and/or VED will help if done carefully. Have to avoid over-stretching or over-pumping.
I am surprised that Dr. Mulhall does not put you on Pentox, low dose Cialis and Ubiquinol. This oral treatment will br helpful in this stage.

James

Thanks for the replies.


Dr. Mulhall feels that injections don't contribute to Peyronie's. (Written in his book. Chapter 8, section IV.) Due to my prostate surgery, getting full erections is only possible by using injections (for now, until my erectile nerves recover). Viagra/Cialis only help achieve a mediocre erection. I must get full erections regularly in order to avoid atrophy and permanent loss of erections. Injections are my only option.

I will ask Dr. Mulhall about Pentox and Ubiquinol. What is the purpose of those meds?  Do they help reverse the Peyronie's, soften the scar tissue, prevent further scar growth, etc?

I have no idea if my plaque is calcified.  What does that mean?

Why would a VED be better than a traction device?  I thought that the benefit of stretching is that the body will grow cells in the stretched areas (like traction used to lengthen bones for folks with certain diseases).  If so, then 20 minutes per day of VED (the most time I'd likely be able to commit) wouldn't be as beneficial as the 6-8 hours per day that I use the traction device.  (I can use the traction device under my clothes at work. That wouldn't be possible with a VED.)

-Gedman

Pentox is theorized to increase blood flow and promote healing. Dr. Lue believes it can prevent calcification and potentially reverse it.

I also take Ubiquinol/CoQ10 but I don't really know what the theorized mechanism/benefit is, other than it's supposed to be a powerful anti-inflammatory agent.

Anon

Gedman:

You are wrong about injections and/or pills being the only option for erections. You are talking to men like myself who have been the whole gamut of Peyronies Disease, ED and other men's sexual problems.

The VED can and will give you on of the best and hardest erections you have had in your life, even at age 18!  I had prostate surgery in 1995 which left me with urinary incontinence, ED and Peyronies Disease as well. I first developed Peyronies Disease in my twenties way back in the 1950s and have had several bouts of it come and go.

After the radical prostate surgery, the known ''cures'' for ED after surgery were tried and none worked. The VED was prescribed and it was the salvation of my sex life. It took about a year of almost daily use (not more than 20/30 minutes a day) with only mild vacuum pressures to get rid of my Peyronies Disease symptoms. It has provided an excellent way for erections using the cock rings after a mild pump up, etc.

So, why would you want to spend almost all day wearing a traction device when the shorter time would provide a means of having erections without invading your penis. Invasion of my penis with the Verapamil injections (12 over 3 months period of time) left me with Peyronies Disease symptoms after each and every one. Trimix and Bimix injections also gave me more nodules, plaque and pain with each injection.

So, bottom line, until you have tried the VED therapy in person you have no clue as to what it can and will do for ED, Peyronies Disease as well as keeping your penis in a more healthy condition than anything I know of on the market today. My opinion is based on my 60 plus years of dealing with Peyronies Disease, ED, prostate cancer and other urinary tract problems.

Old Man

Gedman,

My doctor said to think of traction like wearing braces for your teeth.  You need hours of constant pressure to effect the change. He does not think that a VED will work as well because of this. In my opinion, I believe that VED and traction should both be used and I am using both of them myself. I think the VED can help restore loss of girth and traction for maintaining/restoring length and correcting curvature.

I am throwing everything I can at my Peyronies Disease and I am slowly seeing improvement over the last nine months.

Good luck and keep fighting the fight!

Old Man-


Thanks for your insightful reply.


I have an Obson ErecAid VED and used it before starting with injections.  From an ED perspective, VED is less beneficial than pills or injections (per Dr. Mulhall and others), because a VED draws a mix of oxygenated and non-oxygenated blood past the erectile nerves and into the penis.  Pills/injections work with your body's natural system of fully oxygenated blood to the penis.  It is believed (again, from Dr. Mulhall and others) that oxygenated blood flow to the nerves aids ED recovery for men who have had prostatectomy. Also, I dislike using the VED to get erections for intercourse because of the elastic band needed to keep the blood inside the penis, and the hinge effect at the base (behind the elastic ring) which makes intercourse a bit more challenging.  


If tension/traction is the mechanism that helps Peyronie's recovery, can you help me to understand why 20-30 minutes of VED could be more effective than 6-8 hours using an extender?


IhatePD: The teeth example is the exact comparison that Dr. Mulhall and Dr. Levine use when explaining why they believe that traction devices work for Peyronie's.


I'm really glad that I found this forum and am able to get ideas/guidance from guys with more experience in this area.


-Gedman

Gedman:

Well now, since it seems that you are dead set to dismiss the value of the VED, then I guess that I have missed the point for you to understand.

Now, about the difference between the traction and VED therapy, many doctors/uros really do not understand the purpose behind the VED therapy over that of traction. Some men simply just don't want to put the cock ring on their penis to hold it up long enough for sex when using the VED. It has been plastered all over this forum in many threads/topics that 30 minutes is the longest time that the cock rings should be left in place. Traction use over long periods of time acts like a tourniquet restricing normal blood flow causing the cold feeling that some guys have reported. VED usage for no more than 30 minutes at each session presents much less trauma to the penis.

OK, what do you think that a penis under traction for many hours a day that causes the glans to become numb, cold and in some lose it sensation is doing to one penis? I don't think that many guys are really thinking this through. And, some guys are using the penile injections for erections and what do you think that is doing for correcting Peyronies Disease symptoms?

Anyway, I have nothing further to discuss with you about this subject. I am relying on my personal experience as a counselor the American Cancer Society. I work closely with a board certified urologist who has had many years of experience in sexual therapy and correction of ED and/or Peyronies Disease symptoms. She, yes she, spent many years in a VA hospital under the supervision of one of the best qualified sexual therapist in the VA system. Having worked with this lady doctor for many counseling her patients that need first hand knowledge of how to use the VED and yes traction. However she is not a proponent of traction for many reasons, one of which the blood flow into and out of the penis is restricted for many hours, therefore not allowing new blood to flow in as in a normal penis undergoing erections.

My case is closed on this subject.

Old Man

I'm not dismissive.  I explained why I dislike VED use for intercourse, and the reasons given to me by experts (a title that I believe that Dr. Mulhall has earned) why VED is less beneficial than pills or injections for nerve bundle rehab.  I'm here for informed information based on facts/research or even just individual experiences of forum members.  If you want to "close the case", I certainly can't stop you.

A cock ring used with a VED must stop most or all blood flow in/out of the entire penis.  The goal of the traction device is to stretch, not to constrict.  True, something has to "grab" the penis to keep it stretched, and the common "lasso" mechanism causes reduction of blood flow to the corona.  However, if you read online you'll see that traction product vendors now sell their devices with other mechanisms to "grab" that have much less constriction and minimal cold/numb outcome (ie. a "comfort strap").  I use the "velcro" mod on my device, which is described in detail on the matterofsize forum, which is comfortable and has almost no numbness effect, because the pressure of the velcro is distributed over a much larger area than the "lasso".

You claim that Urologists don't understand the fact that VED therapy is better than traction for Peyronie's treatment.  Then you proceed to discuss matters related restricted bloodflow and intercourse.  Is your point that the reason why VED is better is because maintaining maximized bloodflow is the primary way to treat Peyronie's?

You clearly have expertise here, but I need to understand the "VED is better than traction" viewpoint more clearly.  I hope you can appreciate why I am apprehensive (but not closed minded, in any way), since your opinion contradicts Dr. Mulhall and Dr. Levine - who seem to the be experts in this field and have full medical degrees and years of research behind them.

Regarding injections...  I don't use injections to treat Peyronie's at all.  I agree with you, and see no connection/benefit there.  I use injections to get good erections for intimacy, to avoid tissue atrophy while my nerves recover from cancer surgery, and to force fully oxygenated blood to the areas of the erectile nerve bundles to promote ED recovery.

-Gedman

People please.. you don't argue from authority because some doctors are of the opinion.
You look at the data:
Penile traction therapy and Peyronie's disease: a state of art review of the current literature
The role of vacuum pump therapy to mechanically stra... [BJU Int. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

Btw, I have a question. Are there VEDs where you can actually read off the amount of pressure applied in Pa units?
I would be interested in being able to actually calibrate the pressure and I need a new VED anyway since my prescription battery ved is just crap.

Em,
I built my own VED for under $50. It is simple. You can read the gauge in precise increments so you know exactly the pressure you are pulling. Higher end units also have this ability.
Norm

emasculated-
I am quite familiar with your first link. While the article seems to indicate that PTT is more effective than VED, the lack of data/details makes it hard to accurately compare. Many of study citations don't mention how much time per day or how many days/weeks/months the patients used PTT or VED and the mean SPL and curvature improvements observed.


I hadn't seen the second (it is 3.5 years old).  It would be nice if there was a way to see the whole article and not just the abstract.


-Gedman

This topic is locked.
Please continue with specific subjects on the adequate boards

James