PEYRONIE'S TREATMENTS - Questions, Plans & Remarks

[LWillisjr]

I agree with crashbandit. Considering surgery greatly depends on the severity of the curve. No one who was once straight, wants any type of curve at all. But curves up to 30 degrees or so are very functional without problems. Surgery is only recommended as a last resort AND only if there are issues interfering or preventing intercourse.

[jackwert]

Ive seen dr axilrod at university of pennsylvania had a penile vascular study done that says i have inflamattion in the left side of my penis on the underside but it has not become scar tissue yet, I went to see dr. michael metro in philadelphia PA he injected medicine to give me a erection and said i had a bout a 10 degree curve to the left i also expereince pain with erection or when flaccid and my penis twists to the left in a restful state when flaccid iam constantly trying to straighten it throughout the day it hurts  and when erect it bends slightly to the left 10 degrees and sometimes hard to keep an erection left side is a little shorter with erection i think or maybe it just looks shorter being that the pain anxiety and physchological stress makes it hard to get an erection. dr. michael metro  prescribed me pentoxyfylline on 4/6/11. to 400 mg 3 times a day for 6 months and then hes going to reevauluate me, what else should i do to combat this disease what else should i take im very desperate please according to the penile vascualr study its not scar tissue yet just inflammation what shoudl i do to arrest it and reverse it??? please help

[Worried Guy]

It's very difficult but you should do what he says.  Leave it six months with the pentox and see if the inflammation goes down.  You are in a similar situation to me.  I have pain when flaccid and I have a 10-15 degree curvature to the left.  You can try some supplements which you don't need a prescription for if you want.  Some of these can be a little expensive.  Don't bother with the magic cures you see on the internet because they don't work.  CoQ10 may help you a little and ALC could be of benefit.  It is a very worrying time but you are doing the right thing.  Don't do anything to injure it again.  Take a break from trying to straighten it during the day.  I kept feeling my inflammation in the hope that I could feel it getting smaller but it is not going to go away overnight.  If in 6 months time it has not got any better you may want to try traction or VED.

[George999]

Dr. Metro is on the right track with Pentoxifylline.  You are VERY fortunate that you got a physician who knows what he is doing.  At this early stage the Pentoxifylline *should* do the job for you although it may take more than six months.  When you eventually stop taking it, if the pain recurs, get back on it again immediately so as not to sustain more damage.   Additionally CoQ10 may well provide additional benefit.  Pentoxifylline and CoQ10 are the ONLY substances with solid research demonstrating benefit.  I would not recommend that you waste your time at this point on anything else.  Pentoxifylline is the top performer in terms of Peyronie's treatment.  It doesn't get any better than that.  Later on, if you need additional help, you should look into VED and traction.  But right now, stick with the Pentoxifylline.  - George

[jetedwardz]

good advice and it definetly takes patience. i am used to doing everything to the extreme and in this case ;peyronies it has its own time frame and u wont see results over night and will only get discouraged if that is your mentallity towards it. it took me months to realize this and so many times id find my self focusin on the negative; because we are all used to instant gratification with everything. awesome that u were seen so soon before scarring and that u got on pentox ive been to 2 uros and the first guy str8 out said we dont no much about peyronies and didnt offer anything the 2nd guy only gav me a script for verapamil

[LWillisjr]

See my response to your other post. You would be wise to start traction or VED exercises during this time to keep your conditioning from worsening.

[rd]

I don't know if this is a improvement or not, but wanted to know if any of you have experienced the same thing. My plaque is on the right side of my shaft about a half inch down from the head and starts at the bottom and comes just a bit more then halfway up. Above this I have my dent that doesn't fill right. The best way I can describe the plaque is that it feels like a tic tac cut in half length wise or maybe a speed bump. I've recently noticed that the plaque seems to have flattend out kinda like if the tic tac was smashed. I still have pain and nothing else has changed except maybe a slight filling up right under the head very slight though but enough to feel. I still have lots of pain and discomfort which has seem to been more noticeable than normal. Still no curve just the dent. I'm still taking all my supplements like pentox and doubled the dosage after the one thread about dr lue having people do 2 pills 3x a day. Attached is a very rough drawing to give you a better picture.

[Luciano]

Stupid question... did you experience the "filling up " after doubling the pentox dose?

[rd]

I actually started to notice it before doubling the dose. But again it's so slight that sometimes I question if I'm just seeing things. Today I have been having all kinds of weird stretching sensations coming from the plaque, I started doubling the pentox a week after the post came out about dr lue doubling the dose. I actually woke up one morning this weekend and part of the spot that doesn't fill up seemed almost normal this was first thing waking up but then with in a few minutes of walking around it was back to just the slight bit I've been noticing. I also take half a 50mg viagra pill before going to sleep I don't know if that has been causing some of this.

[lespleen]

Hey, man:

i got this thing back in 2002.. i was 22 at the time--not much older than yourself....THERE WAS NOTHING BACK THEN.....I MEAN NOTHING .......it was a nightmare: take vitamin E, here's a crappy brochure about your hopeless condition with some elderly couple in a forest rendere in cloudy pastels on the front cover.....good luck.


you're so lucky that there are greater treatment options available today.

if i were you i would also look into cialis: when i was your age i noticed that the onset of symptoms coincided with a slight , change in erectile quality...i was stressed out at the time. nocturnal erections are very much so important to your overal penile health. the best thing to do is to project yourself into the future about a year and half to two years: where will i be two years from now; how is this going to feel two years from now. you'll have plenty of opportunities to have great sex, this is not the end of your sex life and you'll have decades of sexual life left....what i found most agonizing was the prospect of permanent sexual handicap throughout my twenties. you're young your body will bounce back from this thing more quickly than in the body of an average 45 year old peyronie's sufferer....plus you have all of these new technologies to help moderate and hopefully annihilate this disease process. so hang in there, man. the goal is ultimately to improve your overall health: work out in order to increase circulation in your extremities , drink a lot of water, pay a great deal of attention to what your eat.....you want your total organism to be as healthy and as robust as possible. at 19 we're usually not obsessed with these issues but unfortunately (or fortunately rather ) you'll need to begin to pay attention to this stuff.

[jackwert]

how long did it take for you to recover did it get better? im taking l arginine pentox 400 mg 3 times a day and i hope it works? and i get nightime erections should i still lie to my urologist and say i have ED just to get cialis? or can i buy it online without it being a scam? thanks for your input man

[jetedwardz]

i use bout 1600 mg 4 400 mg capsules of acetyl l carnitine 2g of l arginine and about 400 mg 4 capsules of coq10 fish oil b vitamin d3 viamin  throughout the day. id def get on the acetyl l carnitine as ive read of its effectiveness in studies on here somewhere and from other members etc. its kinda tricky to find least for me cuz the amounts are low at a lot of stores. so i get the ones from wal mart they are 400 mg on carnitine and i think 200 mg of alpha lipoic acid (whatever that is i guess its good for the brain or somethin. but if i didnt get that combo capsule then i would b buyin the 100 mg capsules and blowing a ton more money

[newguy]

how long did it take for you to recover did it get better? im taking l arginine pentox 400 mg 3 times a day and i hope it works? and i get nightime erections should i still lie to my urologist and say i have ED just to get cialis? or can i buy it online without it being a scam? thanks for your input man

Have you started on pentox now jack? Any update.

[GB77099]

Hi, I first noticed a bending of my penis, about a year ago. Frightened me actually. Doctor told me Peyronies. At first recommended a cream. Way too expensive. Like 800 bucks. When I said no, suggested getting shots. Five in total. I have to buy the pre-filled needles myself. He would inject it. I passed. Now I'm back at square one. Don't know what to do. Am married. My wife's cool about it. All this freaks me out. I'm 49 years old. No problems till now. I live in Houston. Have basic insurance. Wife is disabled. On a fixed budget so to say. Any ideas?

GB77099

[George999]

In short, the best current treatments are Pentoxifylline, Ubiquinol, and VED, not necessarily in that order.  All of these treatments are good and work well.

1)  Pentoxifylline is a prescription med.  It has historically been used at 400mg 3X/day and is now being tested at 800mg 3X/day and results seen at the higher level are significantly better.  Pentoxifylline is an inexpensive, very safe, easy to take FDA approved medication BUT it is NOT approved for the treatment of Peyronie's although there is a full blown high quality research study demonstrating its effectiveness.  Many of the members on this forum are having success with Pentoxifylline.  It takes many months to see results, but it DOES work.  More importantly, it STOPS PROGRESSION of the disease.  The problem is that most doctors refuse to prescribe it claiming it is "experimental" or "unproven".  One usually has to go to a Peyronie's or Sexual Medicine specialist to obtain a prescription although more and more enlightened uros are prescribing it these days.

2)  Ubiquinol is a very expensive over the counter supplement.  It is typically used at 100mg 3X/day.  Ubiquinol has an excellent research study demonstrating its effectiveness that was performed by the same research team that did the Pentoxifylline study.  A number of members of this forum are now using Ubiquinol and finding it effective.  Like Pentoxifylline, it takes a LONG TIME to actually see results, but over the long term it DOES work.  Some of us (myself included) are finding success using it in conjunction with Pentoxifylline.

3)  The VED or Vacuum Erection Device.  Medical grade VEDs have been used successfully for years to treat Peyronie's.  It is easily the longest used treatment for guys on this forum.  Anybody here who uses a VED will tell you that they do the job and do it very well.  I really can't say enough positive things about the VED even though I have never used one myself.  The results are very good and there is plenty of support here in the how to get started part.

Though there are other options here, the above are the best in class and really offer the most bang for the buck and the least risk of problems along the way.  Don't hesitate to ask more questions, there is lots of help waiting for you around here.  - George

[jackwert]

yes ive been on pentox 400 mg 3 times a day since 4/7/11 and im still taking it i havent seen a difference yet

[Skjaldborg]

GB77099,

Pentox helped get rid of significant pain that I was experiencing, although it did not do much to change deformity (note: I have hourglassing and shortening, no real curvature to speak of, so that my have something to do with it). Also, pentox is dirt cheap. I really recommend you give it a try. George's advice is solid. The only thing I'd add is to get yourself in good general health. Hit the gym, start running, whatever. I got this at 29 (3 years ago, time flies) and getting myself in good shape was vital in conquering the psychological aspect. I'm to a point where the condition is a minor annoyance and I'm too busy with my 7 month old baby to worry about it anyway. It gets better, trust me on this one.

-Skjald

[newguy]

yes ive been on pentox 400 mg 3 times a day since 4/7/11 and im still taking it i havent seen a difference yet

It's very much a long term treatment. Hopefully you'll eventually see improvement, or limit potential future damage!

[GB77099]

Thank you both Skjald and George. Very cool of you passing that along. Plus I got a private message with a Doctors name from here in Houston. That's very cool also. I saw my primary care. She was totally useless. I found the guy I'm seeing now via Google. Glad I found this website.  

[mike67]

George999
The 3 point protocol you advocate here is certainly the concensous of learned members such as yourself. I am on that protocol as you may recall.
But newer members may not have a clear idea as to exactly how and when to make use of the VED. I have been following the 26 week protocol , as per my spreadsheet , and approaching the mid second round. It is gruelling but once you get used to it , it becomes habit.
Can you detail this for the newer members as I think the VED thread as I knew it , has gone from the cover page. Last week my original Uro ( the no Pentox one) said just use it 2 or 3 times a week. I am doing more but anything you can add to that George?
Thanks

Mike

[George999]

The only thing I'd add is to get yourself in good general health. Hit the gym, start running, whatever. I got this at 29 (3 years ago, time flies) and getting myself in good shape was vital in conquering the psychological aspect.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Throw out all the unhealthy food (refined carbs, trans fat stuff, etc) and get plenty of healthy exercise.  Peyronie's is an inflammatory disease.  ANYTHING that promotes inflammation is only going to make your Peyronie's worse.  Everything from big bellies to chronic anxiety can fuel systemic inflammation.  The more you do to get healthy, the better your Peyronie's is going to respond and get off your back.  And you might as a result avoid things like strokes and heart attacks which can ruin your day in a worse way than Peyronie's, as bad as it is.  - George

[George999]

Can you detail this for the newer members as I think the VED thread as I knew it , has gone from the cover page. Last week my original Uro ( the no Pentox one) said just use it 2 or 3 times a week. I am doing more but anything you can add to that George?

Mike,  I am not the right guy for that task.  The real VED expert around here is Old Man.  I would suggest that GB contact Old Man for expert guidance on obtaining and using a VED.  There really *should* be something in the Resource section covering VED use.  Again, Old Man would be the one to put something like this together if he has the time.  I am mostly into oral treatments side.  - George

[mike67]

Right you are George. I'll look into it further and get through to OldMan. He was very helpful in getting me started last July.

[Old Man]

Mike67:

The protocol for the one cylinder and three cylinder VEDs is still shown under the VED board section on the home page.

Newcomers should be directed to read the many posts/threads there for a lot of valuable info on the VED. Will be glad to assist anyone with where to buy the medical grade VEDs at a reasonable price.

Old Man

[tunnelman]

If using Cialis (I'm currently using 2.5mg a day as directed by my Urologist - this could be because I achieve erections ok so he doesn't feel I need to take 5mg?) then do people think it it still necessary to take L- Arginine and as aren't they doing a similar job, but with Cialis being more effective and also having potential to reducing scar tissue?

I'd appreciate any thoughts on this.

I've just paid a small fortune for Cialis on private prescription here in the UK - I did so to get the real deal first time around but may look at generics next. This whole treatment plan costs a small fortune.

TM

[Luciano]

Got a brand new urologist since last week.
Seems to be a nice guy and pretty competent. (he wrote also an article in Levine's book back in 2007) . As I pay him 150 Euro per consultation, he listens and gives good answers. (At least most of them make sense)
He told me about cialis (I asked him the question).
"I dont mind you taking it, as Peyronies Disease will give you some ED on the long run. It will make you feel better, and that's the same thing". But he doubts about cialis eating up scar tissue. (he said he thought that anything favoring blood flow will have the same effect on scar tissue. But only on new plaque (thats what he said)
He continued saying, that in my case it wouldn't make a difference as the plaque is allready calcified. In the beginning stage it might have an effect .. (and he added: on some people)
Now I'm on it for 2 months and am going to continue hoping he is wrong.

Luc

[George999]

Luc,  Your best bet in dealing with any calcification issues are long term Pentox and Ubiquinol.  Pentox has been shown to dissolve Peyronie's plaque, but it takes a looong time to do it.  You have to be tenacious.  - George

[Grimchap]

GB77

How did you get on with your doctor in Houston? I am also in Houston and looking for some advice?

G

[jay1]

I have 4 areas of scar tissue / plaque 2 on each side. They are most noticeable when flacid but can be seen while erect to.  I was wondering if this sounded like it made any sense. These first appeared about 2 weeks ago and oddly enough when I use ice on it for 5 minutes or so they go away and then about a minute or 2 later they come back. I was wondering if this is because right now it is just inflammation or what it is.

[George999]

If it shrinks when you use ice on it, it is most likely hard swelling caused by inflammation.  This is really the best time to be using serious inflammation lowering strategies like Pentoxifylline, Ubiquinol/CoQ10, etc.  - George

[jay1]

I am using Coq10 from walgreens and l Arganine. You think those are good options? Also I'm going to the uro June 9th if he does not want to prescribe pentox is it viable to order it online?   Thanks alot for your response.

[George999]

If you are older than 40 or so, I recommend going for the more expensive Ubiquinol.  Under 40, CoQ10 should work just fine, the younger you are, the better it works.  CoQ10 from Walgreens should be OK.  There are guys here who get Pentox online.  I don't.  I feel it is better to get a diagnoses and then find a doc who does prescribe Pentox and get a referral to see that doc.  - George

[pvpey]

Some may have read my posts, but I'll summarize everything here. I'm single, 48 years old and have led a very active sex life. I was diagnosed with Peyronies about 9-10 months ago. That was on a follow-up visit for frequent nightly urination issues. I had noticed an upward curve during erection that other members have described, "seemed to just happen overnight". I also felt hardened areas in a few parts of my shaft and unlike ever before my entire unit retreating back into my body and beneath the foreskin. And I am circumsized.  

My urologist for over 30 years, Dr. Paul immediately recognized and diagnosed the disease and prescribed Verapamil 15% topical gel for a period of 9-12 months. I religeously applied the ointment and as others have reported seemed to see some improvement, especially during the flaccid state. I had/have yet to experience painful erections and was able to preform sexually and achieve climax. Perhaps the effective properties of the gel were more psychological than anything else, but the old boy was nice and limber during the flaccid state and no longer retreated back into it's skin sheathe, thus I figured something was working. And I could still function. However the upward curvature when erect became more prominent as the condition obviously progressed. After reporting this to my Uro he suggested that we cease the topical Verapamil after only 6 months and proceed with Verapamil Injections (6 sessions).

That's when I found this forum about a month ago and my entire outlook changed. I immediately realized that the treatment successful for some, was not necessarily the same for others. And I began to realize the gravity of Peyronies, the bottom line being there is no "magic pill or treatment" that was going to cure this condition and this could be real bad news for me and future sex life. There is no cut and dry treatment or cure. Only that I needed to read, learn from those inflicted and find as many options as possible. Then after last weekend with my new GF when I was engaged in sex that due to my condition and curvature could only perform in certain situations (oral being best) started to really get pissed and make decisions. That brings us to today.

I printed out the entire recent "peyronies report" recently posted here by Luciano I believe. I hand wrote every treatment option documented here and armed with this went to see Dr. Paul. I really had no idea how much he knew about Peyronies, but left somewhat impressed. I expressed my concerns about his treatment regimen and the Verapamil Injections. He agreed that it doesn't work for everyone but showed me a hand drafted small piece of paper of one of his current patients who drew picture of a 45 degree angle before the injections that was now no more than a 15 degree upward curve after the VI treatment. Again, that was one patient and not all. I expressed my concerns and desire to try other alternative treatments before the VI showing him the report and encouraging him to take the time to read what others suffering from this disease have to say. He is also convinced that none of my scar tissue has calcified as of yet.

Well he took the report, but seemed hesitant to take the time to view this forum being it wasn't sponsored by a doctor. We agreed that a less invasive approach should be tried first before anything else. We also discussed the fact that I was taking Coumadin (warafin) daily and that made me a bad candidate for VI in the first place and if I were to want that option I should be off Coumadin for some time prior.

I was surprised that he was not very familiar with the use of Pentox, but after pointing it out and letting him read the "study", he basically told me that since I'm already taking a blood thinner that in his opinion it did basically the same thing if not better. This echoed the same response I received from my Cardiologist. That being although similar, Coumadin is a much more aggressive blood thinner and could be more beneficial than Pentox. I was told to consult Cardiologist to see if Pentox is a viable option.

We eventually basically came to a mutual agreement as far as a treatment regimen when all said and done. And he also referred me to a friend and colleague in the SF Valley (papers in car or I'd post name) who he said was familiar with many of my hand written treatments that were presented. Looking forward to seeing this specialist and reporting here.

For the time being here is the the treatment regimen: Blood thinning agent, in my case Coumadin (that may change), 5-mg of Cialis daily (a fight with Anthem/Blue Cross ensues for benefits), VED device, I couldn't secure what "Old Man" suggested, as my Uro has an outfit who comes out and customizes the VED to a perfect fit. And for about $400. And yes, as much as many here, including myself said is useless, Verapamil 15% Topical gel. Then again, I was never told to expect any real results until after a year of use (I've read where some here showed no progress with Pentox for 4 years), so why the hell not, knowing I'm getting somewhat more effective penile use in the meantime and can piss without spraying everywhere.

We also discussed possibility of eventual surgery if all else fails and collagenase/Xiaflex is a pipe-dream. The Nesbitt Procedure was not an option. I'm not that large sporting 6 1/2" now as it is. We did discuss the excise and graft procedure, and I was thrilled to discover he performed it before, using facial or thigh muscle as the replacement. To be continued....

[newguy]

Sounds like you've really gone that extra mile to try to bring what you've learned here to your urologist. I can understand that he'd be wary of a site without the backing of a doctor, but in a way the site has benefited from that. People here were big VED proponents for instance years before any reliable studies came out. During that time anyone mentioning the VED to a urologist would get laughed out of the building. Things do get a bit crazy in the alternative treatments area,  but on the whole I think the forum works great. Good luck with your treatment regimen!

[Skjaldborg]

pvpey,

Looks like you're doing everything you can. Pentox was helpful for me and I was only on it for 8 months. Pain went away in a matter of weeks. Might be worth a try but check with Uro to see if it would interact with anything else you are taking.

On a side note:

I'm not that large sporting 6 1/2" now as it is.

We've got to stop beating ourselves up over penis size, especially when there is nothing to be upset about. 6 1/2 is on the high end of the spectrum, by the way. If you are between 4 and 6 inches you are completely normal and the same size as an overwhelming proportion of humanity.
/end rant

-Skjald

[pvpey]

On a side note regarding the Verapamil gel. I do not get mine from PDlabs, but a Compounding Pharmacy in San Diego. The price is extremely reasonable in comparison to what I've read here and seen offered on the net. A 2 month supply is only $130. I'm screwed and in order to get it credited from my insurance deductible and eventually partially paid for, I have to purchase 1 month supplies for $89. I know, it makes no sense in the world, but how it currently works. I need to contact Anthem/Blue Cross regarding this.

Also, the urology pharmacists there are very helpful. I wanted to make sure I was getting the Verapamil/Hydro compound (PDLabs formula) and not simply only straight Verapamil. Although you know my opinion, the VH supposedly has shown more promise with topical Verapamil only nada. It's not going to break me financially so I'll go with the flow and hope for the best for the time being. My problem is the Cialis. My regular physician will give me samples now and then, but those are 20mg. My insurance will only cover eight 5mg pills every month. My local pharmacist, who just happens to be a very hot woman (talk about embarrassing) suggested that I have my Uro contact my insurance and see if he can get them to authorize more payment. I intend to.

And to get the Cialis and VED my Uro had to diagnose me with ED not related to Peyronies. I have never had ED issues previously, but certainly do now because of Peyronies. It's all like one big "catch 22".

[jayhawk]

Pvpey,
You can buy generic Cialis on line, I think I paid $130 for 60 20mg pills. They ship from India I believe but works just fine.
Jayhawk

[pvpey]

Thanks Jayhawk. PM me some info if you have any. Guess I'll call uro and explain the higher dosage, 10mg as I'll cut them in half. That was his original dosage anyways, but at the last minute he cut it down to 5mg. I have enough for 16 days right now, but am still waiting to hear from VED Distributor. If no contact by Monday evening I will call my uro and insist he fill out RX form "Old Man" directed me to.

On a side note, I posted earlier in another thread that at my urologist's office nurses and not the Doctor administered VI shots. That's what I was told when I called his office. Well that's not the case with my uro afterall, HE administers all such injections and the operator was misinformed. Which is a bit more comforting if it comes down to having them.

[LWillisjr]

Just sent you a PM with the link that I order my Cialis from.

[pvpey]

Muchas Gracias!!!

[jayhawk]

Pvpey,
I used I used tabsmarket.com
Jayhawk

[Tim468]

Although Pentox is a "blood thinner", it is not that quality, to the best of my understanding , that makes it an effective drug. Instead, it is the anti-TNF and perhaps antiTGF-beta activity that makes it useful. You might want to discuss this further with your urologist. It may be that a blood thinner (anticoagulant) like Coumadin makes using Pentox off-limits for you. But it might also be that a different medicine could be used, or even that you could use the Pentox for it's anticoagulant effects that makes it a drug you could use.

Tim

[George999]

I might add that there is a newer, better drug that is now replacing coumadin.  While far more expensive (of course), it is also safer and far easier to manage and sync with other drugs and has fewer side effects.  I would also add that the other top oral treatment for older guys with Peyronie's is Ubiquinol AND Ubiquinol is very helpful for the heart as well and might very well be helpful longterm in dealing with afib.  But be sure to discuss it with your cardiologist before taking it.  - George

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm230241.htm

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/100405.php

[pvpey]

I realize there are different qualities with Pentox and Coumadin beside both having a blood thinning effect. I need to consult my Cardiologist first before making any decision. The ideal being he will fill that Pentox is an acceptable substitute for Coumadin in my case. However I doubt it from the previous brief conversations we've had regarding it, but who knows. My urologist seems to think that the blood thinning effect of Coumadin will aid in allowing more blood flow in my penis and around existing scar tissue.

[Tim468]

I think that your urologist is engaging in wishful thinking. It is not clear that blood thinning improves blood flow to anything, and if it does, that such would help the penis afflicted with Peyronies (two jumps in logic IMHO).

The bottom line is that Pentox is not an anticoagulant with the effects of coumadin - not even close. And Coumadin is not known to have any effect on Peyronies (and the effect of pentox is not related to blood flow). So coming up with a solution that really meets your anti-coagulation needs, and which also allows you to take pentox is the best solution. I think the interactions between pentox and coumadin are perhaps unknown and easily exaggerated too.

Tim

[George999]

It is certainly a HUGE problem that the term "blood thinner" is so widely used and it applies indeed to drugs that are not even close in their therapeutic effects OR potential side effects.  The term "blood thinner" really only tells you that the designated drug/supplement *can* cause a bleeding problem.  It tells you NOTHING about its efficacy or even potential efficacy for a specific application.  I am always puzzled at how diverse blood thinners forever are being tossed into the same bag as if they were pharmaceutical analogs.  - George

[pvpey]

Well according to Medline+, I would have to assume that Pentox falls into the blood thinner category  

Why is this medication prescribed?
Pentoxifylline is used to improve blood flow in patients with circulation problems to reduce aching, cramping, and tiredness in the hands and feet. It works by decreasing the thickness (viscosity) of blood. This change allows your blood to flow more easily, especially in the small blood vessels of the hands and feet.

And according to WebMD Coumadin falls into the blood thinner and anticoagulate category

Warfarin and Other Blood Thinners for Heart Disease
Warfarin, which goes by the brand name Coumadin, is an anticoagulant medication. This means that it helps prevent clots from forming in the blood. Blood thinners are used to treat some types of heart disease.

As previously noted I think it best to consult my Cardiologist regarding possible Pentox use. From what I've read elsewhere taking both Coumadin and Pentox together can have severe side effects. I don't think that either my urologist or Cardiologist is very familiar with Pentox and both may have to do some research. However the use of Pentox for Peyronies still seems to be somewhat experimental with no concrete evidence of helping or not. But I'm willing to try anything as long as it doesn't kill me or worsen the condition.

[newguy]

However the use of Pentox for Peyronies still seems to be somewhat experimental with no concrete evidence of helping or not. But I'm willing to try anything as long as it doesn't kill me or worsen the condition.

There are a couple of studies out there with positive results. Not miraculous, but as part of a regimen it can be valuable. There's nothing much out there to indicate that there is a suitable replacement, and think that you're urologist has got the wrong end of the stick with regard to how pentox is thought to help peyronie's disease. Still, there are of course many different approaches and experiences so whatever your treatment regimen ends up being, be to keep us in the loop. All feedback is valuable.

[pvpey]

My urologist is not very familiar with the use of Pentox for Peyronies (he told me so verbatim and I posted this in my initial post). Thus his recommendation to visit his colleague Dr. Gelbard who is apparently very familiar with most of the newer treatments and medications used for Peyronies. I will follow the regimen prescribed until I see Dr. Gelbard and get his opinion. I  also have yet to hear back from the suggested VED territory representative and intend to contact my urologist tomorrow to get an alternative RX.

My urologist wanted to try Verapamil injections and has supposedly had some recent success using this treatment (as previously posted). I want to exhaust a few other avenues before getting VI shots myself being that they do not seem to benefit everyone, but have been a very effective treatment for others.  

[George999]

Pentox and Coumadin are two VERY DIFFERENT drugs.  Both both have a SAME common side effect which is bleeding risk.  That is all the term "blood thinner" means ... "bleeding risk".  Pentox improves circulation.  That IS NOT because it is a blood thinner.  It is because Pentox actually changes the quality of the blood cells so they can squeeze through a smaller passage.  Coumadin, on the other hand, unlike Pentox, does not change the overall viscosity of the blood in any way.  It simply prevents the blood from clotting by attacking the clotting factor Vitamin K.  But the effect in both case is the same.  You can bleed to death more easily from Pentox because more blood can fit through the hole.  You can bleed to death more easily from coumadin because the blood can fail to clot normally when you have a hole.  I am not addressing this to you directly pvpey, but some guys on this forum are making wrong treatment decisions because they cannot grasp what the term "blood thinner" denotes and they are putting all "blood thinners" in the same basket when it comes to treatment decisions.  As for you, the more expert opinions you get, the better.  So it is good that you are bouncing all of this off of your cardiologist and Dr Gelbard.  They are the ones who can most of all help you and protect you.  You ARE on the right track here, stay the course.  - George

Well according to Medline+, I would have to assume that Pentox falls into the blood thinner category  

Why is this medication prescribed?
Pentoxifylline is used to improve blood flow in patients with circulation problems to reduce aching, cramping, and tiredness in the hands and feet. It works by decreasing the thickness (viscosity) of blood. This change allows your blood to flow more easily, especially in the small blood vessels of the hands and feet.

And according to WebMD Coumadin falls into the blood thinner and anticoagulate category

Warfarin and Other Blood Thinners for Heart Disease
Warfarin, which goes by the brand name Coumadin, is an anticoagulant medication. This means that it helps prevent clots from forming in the blood. Blood thinners are used to treat some types of heart disease.

As previously noted I think it best to consult my Cardiologist regarding possible Pentox use. From what I've read elsewhere taking both Coumadin and Pentox together can have severe side effects. I don't think that either my urologist or Cardiologist is very familiar with Pentox and both may have to do some research. However the use of Pentox for Peyronies still seems to be somewhat experimental with no concrete evidence of helping or not. But I'm willing to try anything as long as it doesn't kill me or worsen the condition.