New here - need help!!

[Mathias99]

Hello! :-)

I'm 31 years old and 4 weeks ago i have injured my penis during sex with my girlfirend(she bent my penis). Since that my Penis hurts a lot, especially during erections in the night but sometimes also when flaccid. 3 weeks ago i have noticed a neck/strangling near to the glans (so penis looks like a bottle, slim at the top) when penis is erected and the glans doesn't get really hard. Moreover there is small bend to the left, which is away when the penis is fully erected.

I have been to 2 urologists and they all did an ultrasound and said there is no fracture / no plaque and they said I have to wait and should do an iontopherese therapy because it looks like peyronies desease. They also said it's important to give the corpus Cavernosum time to heal and so i should avoid erections.(but they are not really peyronie specialists). They didn't want to prescribe me medicine.

Has anybody the same experiences and may recommend me what to do now at this point?
Should i really wait?

Should i try the PAC/PAV Cocktail or is it not recommended for my case?

I'm really desperate at the moment and i'm really thankful for every answer.
(Sorry guys for my bad english and my mistakes)

Mathias

[dioporcolorisolvo]

I'm really desperate at the moment.

It's VERY early to use this word, you don't know not even what you have....avoid intense intercourse for some week but not natural erections.

[james1947]

Mathias99

You should not wait, to wait is the worst think you can do if you have Peyronies, but it is not sure you have in this stage.
For the pain, Pentox has helped many on the forum and is also the first line treatment for this disease. You will need prescription for that, so find a doctor that it will be ready to give you a prescription.
It will not be bad also to begin taking CoQ10 and Acetyl L-Carnitine. Those are supplements, don't need prescription.
I will advice you also to take time and read the forum to understand what this disease is and how others are fighting it.

Welcome to the forum
James

[Mathias99]

Thank you for your answers, this forum is really very useful!

James,
one question:
These medicines gain the blood flow in my penis and this may be good if I have peyronie.But isn't it at the same time bad for the healing of my injured corpus Cavernosum?(my doc said i should prevent erections in order to prevent the production of scar tissue)

Thank you,
Mathias

[james1947]

Mathias

Generally I don't trust doctors. I have very good reasons for that. Your uro is an other example when saying wait to see what happening. He don't know what happening and what to do, so he is telling you to wait until you will have calcified plaques?
I am sure he will have different approach than waiting if it was his penis.
Good blood flow it will speed up the recovery from the injury because of the oxygen supply. I also don't think that erection is causing scar tissues. The Pentox and the supplements are stopping the scar tissues production and even dissolve them. This is they aim.
But it is my private opinion and what I was doing if I had this problem.
I would like to hear other forum members opinion also.

James

[guyincog]

I strongly advise against getting erections.  Some on the forum may disagree however this was my personal experience:

I had almost exactly the same situation as you - injury during sex.  Some pain, lingering during flacid and erect.  After a week or two noticed a small dent near the head.  Ultrasounds did not show fracture or any bruising/swelling.

I continued to get erections and they were painful.  This was largely due to advice on this forum of 'use it or lose it' and to promote bloodlfow.  I continued to have sex despite the pain and things got progresively worse and worse.  I believe that had I let the corpus Cavernosum heal properly I may only have had minor damage and the pan would have gone away faster.  As it is I have pretty bad damage and I believe I injured things to a point where I will continue to have pain for quite a while.

I would say take your doctors advice regarding erections and healing - they went to med school after all.  The pentox and other treatment regimes do have scientific, controlled studies which show they can reduce the chance of peyronies after an injury so that is definitely something to look into.  

Again, others on this forum disagree with me and say erections are healthy but if you have any pain at all I strongly recommend letting things heal for at least a few weeks before you get erections.  In my case I did NOT and things turned out very poorly.  

[Hawk]

Yeh Mathias,  Take your doctor's advice, "Do Nothing"    Does that even qualify as medical advice  Listening to doctors is good but when doctors give opposing advice the patient has to make the call on which doctor's background and advice has the most sound evidence and credentials.

Many of us have been on these forums for going on 10 years.  We have consulted with Peyronies Disease experts and knuckle heads.  I appreciate and understand the reason for guyincog's opinion but it is based on one new guy's opinion on what he thinks might have happened if he had not gotten erections.  How would a person even stop erections if he wanted to since every healthy penis gets erections several times a night.  Why does the body cause periodic erections in males from birth to old age through-out the night?  ANSWER:To maintain penile health.  It is established fact that lack of erections and the resulting reduction in oxygen to penile tissue causes scar tissue formation and loss of elasticity.  Several studies even in non-Peyronies Disease patients confirm this.  Including diabetics and others that have ED issues.  The result is wasting away of penis size.  In addition, contracted tissue that heals, heals in a contracted manner.  That is why burn victims have to go through agonizing hours of stretching during the healing process.

This does NOT mean have rough sex or necessarily any kind of sex.  It does mean promote high oxygen levels and the gentle stretching that erections cause.  This is not a cure! You may still scar, and your penis  may still deform, but whatever happens, it would be worse without blood flow and lower oxygen levels.

I can tell you right now without reservation.  Dr. Levine or Dr. Lue who have treated thousands of Peyronies Disease patients, spoken at urology conventions, and authored books on Peyronies Disease, would give you Pentox and not tell you to try to inhibit erections.  I would listen to doctors, but it would be to those doctors and not a knucklehead that says do nothing because he has no clue what else to say.

[MattFoley]

The day I accept that having erections is bad for me is the day I shoot myself.  

[guyincog]

Again, so let me ask you.

When someone has the nesbitt or other penis surgery - do the surgeons suggest getting erections right away?  Or wait for it to heal up?

I get what you're saying, I understand the oxygenation stuff but if you have pain and especially if the injury is recent then some caution is warranted.  A few weeks of not getting an erection may not be good for you.

You need regular exercise but if you break your arm / fracture a part of your body sometimes rest is required for proper healing.  Spouting off 'use it or lose it' as GENERAL advice is dangerous.  

The studies you cite suggest statistical deviations over a long period of time.  Whatever this guy does he's going to be getting night time erections and that will be enough for normal penile health.  My personal experience was pain = STOP TRYING TO GET ERECTIONS.  Pain is not a good sign.

I think there is a wide range of 'peyronies' - some through genetic factors, some from wound healing, autoimmune, etc.

Trust me, I did not stop getting erections.  Every night for over 8 months I was woken roughly 1.5 hours into sleep so I know I was getting them.  But I heeded advice on this forum to 'use it or lose it' and I feel I hindered my body's natural healing process.

It's OP's body, I'm giving my experience and suggestion to lay off for a little while at least until he has the pain under control.

How long did your pain go on for btw Hawk?

RULE VIOLATION - An entire previous post was quoted in its entirety-  Deleted by Administrator Poster officially warned!

[LWillisjr]

My doctor started me on a very low dose of Viagra about 10 days post surgery. This implies to me that he wasn't encouraging it immediately. But even 10 days post surgery, the first few erections were at night. And they were painful enough that I didn't get fully erect and the pain would cause the erection to go away. So at that point I was thrilled to know I could achieve one post surgery, but it was still slow going for awhile until the healing and pain had gone away.

[Mathias99]

Thank you all for your answers guys!!!

Sadly my situation is worse now.

I had no sex the last weeks, only nightly erections and wanted to give my penis some time to heal befor promoting erections.

The problem is that I have developed 3 light rings on the right side of my penis, which are only really noticeable when semi-errect. Moreover i have lost a lot of sensibility in this area, it feels numb. My doc said that these rings are not palpabel and so he is not able to diagnose that.

I think I have these rings because some weeks ago another doc has touched and lenghtened my penis roughly in order to look for plaques and so he may be has damaged me again That's my conclusion because these rings are not at the place where my first injury is(really near to the glans) and some people also have developed these rings after penis enlargement exercises.

Now i'm trying to get pentox but I don't really know if I should take it due to my new undiagnosed situation.
I fear to make it worse with pentox because i don't know what these rings are and how they react on a mediaction that raise blood flow..

Has anybody advice for my problem?
Thank you,
Mathias

[james1947]

Mathias

You must to be proactive and don't just wait.
Most of the doctors I know are incompetent!!!
Pentox, Acetyl L-Carnitine, Coq10 will help to stop this disease!!!

James

[MattFoley]

I agree with James.

The doctors I like the best are the ones that do EXACTLY what I fuking tell them to do. I don't care if I have to lie, steal, cheat to get what I want from them. They are nothing gate-keepers to my health goals and I have every intention of getting what I want from these bastards.

[Tim468]

Hi Matt Foley ( I cannot NOT think of the line "living in my van down by the river!")

This is a serious question for you.

Are you drinking when you post here or, more to the point, are you drunk?

I see no reason for the use of obscene language (in fact it is against the rules of the forum) and the over-the-top language that you use to describe people. Your angry tone (not to mention the typos and dropped letters or words in your sentences) all seems like a person who is dis-inhibited - by something.

A lot of us have been angry at times, and posted here when we were really pissed off. But that combination of anger and the disrespect for the physicians who try to help men with this problem is sort of odd.

If you end up with a doc who does exactly what you want, I would be surprised. Were I you, I would be quite wary of a doc who took orders from you.

Tim

[MattFoley]

Hi Tim, yes, the reference is to the Chris Farley character of Matt Foley (not my real name) but I use it everywhere online. Thank you for mentioning that.

As for being drunk, no, I don't drink. Can't stand alcohol. I will occasionally drink a port or a sherry but that's about it. And just in case you're thinking I might be taking other mind-altering substances, no, not at all.

Of course, the surge of testosterone in my body is another matter entirely.

My anger is directed at incompetent physicians who by their negligence are responsible for causing or allowing the misery of Peyronie's sufferers. The physician in question suggested Vitamin E and waiting to one of the members. Maybe you're OK with that protocol but I'm not. I merely encouraged the member to disassociate himself from this incompetent "urologist" and seek the services of one that is duly qualified to treat Peyronie's.

I have not directed my words against anyone in this forum and have maintained the rules of the forum. And, no, those are not typos. I don't believe in typos. Those are intentional grammatical alterations designed to bypass the system's automated function of scrambling profanity-laced words.

Lastly, I have had the greatest success with doctors who work with me on solutions rather than staying to some preconceived notion of how a condition should be treated. I know what I'm doing when I meet with a physician. I'm prepared with questions, challenges, and suggestions. You have no idea how far my skills go as far as diagnosing medical issues. A doctor who is willing to keep an open mind on treatment is my ally. A doctor who wants to impose his perhaps outdated notions, like the urologist in question, is not someone who's talents I wish to employ and further, is someone who should be rated online in order to warn others of his incompetence.

Thank you for your thoughts, Tim, and I hope I was able to help clarify issues which seem to have led you to a faulty conclusion.

God bless you but may He bless me more.

[Hawk]

Just for clarification,  The forum rules say nothing abut no personal attacks on members.  They say "No personal attacks".

Our forum rules were established by a vote of the membership on the kind of forum members wanted.  Attempts to circumvent forum profanity censoring or other rules will result in members being warned, and then banned.  We are not interested in juvenile language or dialog.  Several banned members have found that out the unpleasant way.  Once a ban is in place it also prevents even reading the forum so the banned member is worse off than when they were a guest.

Administrator

[Hawk]

Tim,

Great to hear from you.  Where are you hanging your shingle out these days?

Hawk

[Tim468]

To Hawk:

I moved to a new job in the NW and have been busy!!

To Matt:

"As for being drunk, no, I don't drink"

OK.

"Of course, the surge of testosterone in my body is another matter entirely."

Something seems to be associated with a variability in your posts from coherent to ranting.

My anger is directed at incompetent physicians who by their negligence are responsible for causing or allowing the misery of Peyronie's sufferers. The physician in question suggested Vitamin E and waiting to one of the members. Maybe you're OK with that protocol but I'm not. I merely encouraged the member to disassociate himself from this incompetent "urologist" and seek the services of one that is duly qualified to treat Peyronie's.

It is fair to say that some physicians know more than others about Peyronies Disease. Here, we can advise new members that there is better care out there than they are getting (for some don't even know it is sub-par).

But your post, which has been edited and changed after the fact, generalized, and went on to say that the role of a doctor is to do exactly what you tell them to do. It also was generally insulting and profane.

...those are intentional grammatical alterations designed to bypass the system's automated function of scrambling profanity-laced words.

Except they weren't. You have changed a swear word now to read "F^@$!#&", and previously it was simply misspelled. But the dropping out of little things (like verbs or letters) suggests a pressured typing mind, and rage, not a very reasoned approach as this current post of yours would suggest you possess the capability of showing instead.

Lastly, I have had the greatest success with doctors who work with me on solutions rather than staying to some preconceived notion of how a condition should be treated. I know what I'm doing when I meet with a physician. I'm prepared with questions, challenges, and suggestions.

Good.

You have no idea how far my skills go as far as diagnosing medical issues.

True, that.

Thank you for your thoughts, Tim, and I hope I was able to help clarify issues which seem to have led you to a faulty conclusion.

You have gone back and edited your post, and made it look a bit more reasonable. Perhaps a better approach might have been to start there.

Perhaps you have a great deal to offer others here.

But humility might be worth working on. For if you present as emphatically true that which is only your personal belief, you run the real risk of either completely misinforming or misguiding a newcomer to his great detriment. A patient who gets better with conservative care might benefit from Vitamin E, Potaba or Verapamil, even if that has not worked for many of us.

Eventually (hopefully) a newcomer here will find out what has helped the most of us best.

God bless you but may He bless me more.

Yeah.... I don't think God works that way.

Tim

[MattFoley]

Hi Tim, thanks for following up with me. I may be wrong but I'm thinking that the moderator of this forum might prefer that we discuss this through PM. But just to address your thoughts here and hope that after this we can get back to the main issues of Peyronie's, here's the answer to your questions:


Something seems to be associated with a variability in your posts from coherent to ranting.

I'm always coherently ranting. That's my personal style.


But your post, which has been edited and changed after the fact, generalized, and went on to say that the role of a doctor is to do exactly what you tell them to do. It also was generally insulting and profane.

Perhaps to you it was insulting as a doctor, but as I said, I go into a doctors office prepared. Many times far more prepared than an often rushed doctor who sees too many patients and is only marginally capable. When I was a sheep like many people, I was led around by the nose by these doctors and my life became worse. When I took charge and responsibility of my healthcare, things started turning around. I know that you're not suggesting I should go into the doctor's office totally oblivious, right? I would hope not. By the time I get to the doctors office, I make it my business to know as much as I can about the issue and direct him to an appropriate solution as well if need be.


Except they weren't. You have changed a swear word now to read "F^@$!#&", and previously it was simply misspelled.

Yes, the system automatically scrambles profane words. I had to go back and truncate the "c" in order to properly express my emotions at that moment.


But the dropping out of little things (like verbs or letters) suggests a pressured typing mind, and rage, not a very reasoned approach as this current post of yours would suggest you possess the capability of showing instead.

Like most, I'm here to help others and help myself. Depending on how much time I have to spend, sure, sometimes I might misspell a word or drop a verb but I think we can all be forgiven for that. I'm sure you've done the same at times.


You have gone back and edited your post, and made it look a bit more reasonable. Perhaps a better approach might have been to start there.

I had to do that as per the instruction of one of the moderators. Trust me, I would rather use a great deal of profanity instead.


Perhaps you have a great deal to offer others here.

Thank you, I would like to think so.


But humility might be worth working on. For if you present as emphatically true that which is only your personal belief, you run the real risk of either completely misinforming or misguiding a newcomer to his great detriment. A patient who gets better with conservative care might benefit from Vitamin E, Potaba or Verapamil, even if that has not worked for many of us. Eventually (hopefully) a newcomer here will find out what has helped the most of us best.

I always make it clear that my conclusions are my own unless I'm pointing to a medical study to support my thoughts, as I usually do.


Yeah.... I don't think God works that way.

Yes, Tim, I'm well aware of that. That was an obvious joke.

So, don't forget, Jesus loves you but He loves me more. Thoughts?  

[Sargonnas]

I strongly advise against getting erections.  Some on the forum may disagree however this was my personal experience:

I had almost exactly the same situation as you - injury during sex.  Some pain, lingering during flacid and erect.  After a week or two noticed a small dent near the head.  Ultrasounds did not show fracture or any bruising/swelling.

I continued to get erections and they were painful.  This was largely due to advice on this forum of 'use it or lose it' and to promote bloodlfow.  I continued to have sex despite the pain and things got progresively worse and worse.  I believe that had I let the corpus Cavernosum heal properly I may only have had minor damage and the pan would have gone away faster.  As it is I have pretty bad damage and I believe I injured things to a point where I will continue to have pain for quite a while.

I would say take your doctors advice regarding erections and healing - they went to med school after all.  The pentox and other treatment regimes do have scientific, controlled studies which show they can reduce the chance of peyronies after an injury so that is definitely something to look into.  

Again, others on this forum disagree with me and say erections are healthy but if you have any pain at all I strongly recommend letting things heal for at least a few weeks before you get erections.  In my case I did NOT and things turned out very poorly.

I completely agree with this, backed up with MY empirical experience with erections and pain.

[Hawk]

I completely agree with this, backed up with MY empirical experience with erections and pain.

I respect your opinion but I do not share it.   In this case, empirical evidence = anecdotal evidence based on observation of one penis under less than objective conditions.  Granted, when presented by a reasonable individual anecdotal evidence represent a tiny piece of data that is better than no evidence at all.  The problem is that it does not even soundly establish what actually happened in your case  much less that it has general application to my penis or those of most men with Peyronies Disease.  

While my observations tend to be contrary to yours, I base my opinion more on other data.  Specifically:

1. Dr. Levine recommends traction (stretching" during the acute phase and gets positive results.

2.

Actually from:Author: Steven A. Scott, Pharm.D.
Associate Professor of Clinical Pharmacy
School of Pharmacy and Pharmacal Sciences
Purdue University
The smooth muscles in the penis produce TGF-B1, a component of the immune system, and one of its roles is to produce collagen. Collagen contributes not only to structural tissue in the body, but is also the material that comprises scar tissue. Prostaglandin E1, among its other functions, opens blood vessels and suppresses collagen production. There is some evidence that when oxygen levels become too low, TGF-B1 production increases and prostaglandin production decreases. If oxygen levels become too low, smooth muscles atrophy and collagen is overproduced, causing scarring and loss of elasticity and reduced blood flow to the penis. Infrequent erections deprive the penis of oxygen-rich blood. Without daily erections, collagen production increases and eventually may form a tough tissue that interferes with blood flow in the penis.[/color]

3. Scarring and contraction are pretty well linked.  This is not just true of Peyronies Disease but all scarring.  It is widely seen and easily observed in burn victims.  These patients have to go through very painful stretching to prevent the drawing contraction of forming scar tissue.

I have no doubt that men see things in this order: A -I have an erection, B-it causes pain, C-I develop plaque and deformity.  That does not establish however that A cause B and even if it did, it certainly does not establish that B causes C.  left alone without oxygen, scar tissue will form.  Without stretching scar tissue will contract.  Erection supplies both oxygen and some extent of stretching.  Might erections be painful?  The answer is yes.  If I have painful erections might I develop plaque and deformity? Again the answer is yes but those are not the questions at hand.

The evidence is that erections lessen the degree o f plaque formation and the contraction of that plaque.

Finally, the conversation is somewhat moot since erections are between difficult and impossible to stop unless you have ED.

[Sargonnas]

Couldnt agree more, the conversation its moot regarding uncontrollable erections, such as morning or nightime ones. We are actually discussing those that we cause. Indeed I feel like morning erections are good for my penis.

For example, yesterday I had almost no pain, watched a video on youtube and had a good boner. From that point to today the pain has returned.

I appreciate your evidence regarding the beneficial effects of erections on Peyronies... But for the sake of clarity, do you have any idea why after having erections pain becomes much worse in for example my case? Isnt that a clear message of the body regarding something that is being harmed? Its evident im not even sure of having Peyronies, but since my penis does bend in moments of great pain and the ache comes in waves it could very well be.

[Hawk]

I am confused a little by your post.  Are you suggesting that morning erections and night time erections are good for you but if you get an erection from thinking about sex during the day that it is bad???

Also it seems you are saying that sometimes your penis bends and sometimes it doesn't.  Peyronies Disease scar tissue does not come and go from one erection to the next so this seems very strange to me unless you are talking about a VERY minor curve.

[Sargonnas]

I know it IS strange but its the way my penis behaves. It isnt that strange in fact, if you look at those guys which arent sure of having Peyronies but do have some injury, it is fairly common to see people stating that there is a bent in semi flaccid state that goes away in full erections.