ARCHIVE: Verapamil - Injections & Topical Applications including Iontophoresis

[Old Man]

ComeBackid:

The protocol for the Soma Correct is the 26 week one provided by the Augusta Medical Systems company. The regimen of exercises that were developed by my uro and me have not been posted on the forum. They are given mainly through emails and PMs when an individual desires to start using them. They were developed especially for the Osbon Esteem manual VED. On occadion they have been given over the phone too.

Old Man

[ComeBacKid]

Soxfan,

What is the protocol exactly for mixing up the thackers, I think it was Barry who said not to refigerate the mixture, but use it right away and throw away the excess?

ComeBackid

[soxfan]

Soxfan,

What is the protocol exactly for mixing up the thackers, I think it was Barry who said not to refigerate the mixture, but use it right away and throw away the excess?

ComeBackid

ComeBackid,

Firstly, I use the osbon model VED with the protocol that old man was kind enough to provide for me. I do feel that it is helping but it is a slow process.

As to the Thacker formula, I mix it using 7 teaspoons of 99.9% pure dmso+2 teaspoons of apple cider vinegar+1 teaspoon of castor oil. I put the mixture into a little bottle with an eye-dropper and apply the mixture to the gauze or flanell and then to my penis. I find that the mixture will keep for 3 or 4 days with no problem. Again, it is a slow process and it might take many months or a year but I feel that it has helped greatly.

Cheers.

[Tyler]

Hello everyone,

I am 16 years old and have been diagnosed with peyronies about 3 months ago. I got it from
getting hurt during sex, and i have been a mess mentally ever since. I have no self-esteem and i cry alot. This kind of stuff isnt like me i am usually very active and happy but since i got hurt its hard to smile. I am on Topical Verapamil from Peyronies Disease labs, i have been using it twice a day for about a month, and i havnt missed one application. My peyronies seems to be getting worse though. I was just wondering if anyone has had any GOOD experiences with topical verapamil, and if not what has worked. I come from a very poor family who is doing all they can to help me but the amount of money we spend for TV is really hard on us. I just wanted to make sure it isnt for nothing. If anyone has completely resolved their peyronies and are still on this forum PLEASE let me know because i am willing to try anything. Thank you all for your help.

-Tyler

[ComeBacKid]

Tyler,

The company you are purchasing it from must be Prescription Dispensing Laboratories in San Antonio, Texas?

I've used their product for 3 months twice daily, and for the last three weeks doing 4 applications daily, I saw absolutely no long term results.  All the drug will do is make your nuts itch, and increase bloodflow while your on it, making your penis slightly bigger, and giving you the impression the plaque is changing when it really isnt.  The stuff is expensive I sure hope your insurance is covering it.  Countless people have PMed me telling me the stuff did not work for them, only one person Kimo, has said he saw results from TV from PDLabs that I know of.  I've written a detailed report on TV from PDLabs, you might find it beneficial to read and analyze it, there are some very disturbing facts in it about PDLabs.  I was flat out lied to on the phone several times from them, and they fail to present any new data that backs up the efficacy of their product which they said they have been gathering for years.  If you click on the Peyronies Discussion Forum, and then go to the topic Report on PDLabs and TV you can scroll to the bottom to see my report.

ComeBackid

[Tyler]

Tyler,

The company you are purchasing it from must be Prescription Dispensing Laboratories in San Antonio, Texas?
ComeBackid

Yes, thats who im getting it from, i know what your saying about it makin your nuts itch and making it look bigger. How long was kimo doing it for? Did he just see some results or was his problem resolved? Do you know of anyone who has used anything that has worked for them? Thank you so much for your help.

Tyler

[ComeBacKid]

Tyler,

People have said the VED works, and IONOtophoresis as well.  I'm on vitamin E, ALC, L Arginine, VED, and IONO treatments every other day. Different things work for different people.  Just read around the forum a little when you get a chance, some people are now soaking in the bath with epsom salts, the stuff is cheap and you can buy it at a local pharmacy like CVS.  

ComeBackid

[Tyler]

Thank you so much for your quick responces. The people that have used IONOtophoresis have been completely resolved? I am looking into those, is everthing that you are doing helping at all? Do you know of anyone at all using anything that has gotten their penis completely back to normal?

[Liam]

JustLooking,  Quick answer is no.  The best honest answer I have ever heard from any treatment is improvement.   Wish I had better news.  

[ComeBacKid]

Tyler,

I don't notice any results from the IONO treatments yet, but I'm only halfway through the protocol and I've had my disease for 7 years so it might take a little longer time on the treatments.  Most people that report results from anything just report improvements, no smoking gun cure yet.

ComeBackid

[Tyler]

ComeBackid,

How long does the treatment go? Should i have better results because i have only had it for a few months? Have you had any good results form anything so far? Its hard to believe that there is no CURE for peyronies. It seems like one of these things would have had to had worked on someone. Has anyone heard of the disease correcting itself?, my plaque is also on the left side of my shaft so my bend is to the left. Should that be easier to resolve than if it was on the top or bottom? im sorry for all the questions but i would do anything to get it back to normal.

Thanks

Tyler

[Liam]

Tyler,

I have heard of this before.  It is, however, unusual.  I don't want you to disclose anything that you are not comfortable with.  I would like to ask you some questions if you don't mind.  Were you referred to a Urologist?  Was that who prescribed topical verapamil?  Are you taking anything else?

Good Luck

Liam

[ComeBacKid]

Tyler,

The IONO treatment protocol calls for 25 applications of verapamil and decadron, once every three days, some people do more if they have their own PHYSION units.  For the people who don't have these, they have to go into see a doctor to get the treatments done, and they can't get in as much, so they may only end up doing one treatment a week.  Phil has reported he saw moderate results using this treatment, so I have hope.  A small percentage, maybe about 10% who get peyronies heal without any problems, but this is rare as you can see.  I don't think any plaque is necessarily easy to resolve, no matter where its located, but its good you have indentified it.  I would recommend getting in to see a good urologist, getting an ultrasound to indentify the plaque is a good idea, you may be able to tell if its calcified as well.  Hang in there buddy, just stick to the treatments, I usually give a treatment at least 3 months before I get rid of it.

ComeBackid

[Tyler]

Just Looking,
I would like to ask you some questions if you don't mind.  Were you referred to a Urologist?  Was that who prescribed topical verapamil?  Are you taking anything else?
Liam

Thank you both for your help. I am fine with answering any questions. Yes i was referred to a urologist about 3 weeks after it happened, he sent me directly to Peyronies Disease labs without even taking a MRI or Ultrasound. So, i have been on TV for about a month now, i think this is acctually only the third week. And, im not sure if it is because of the verapamil or just the disease progressing but i now have the "hourglass" and my curvature is alot worse. I am looking into getting an ultrasound, and i talk to a guy named John from Peyronies Disease labs, he seems nice and answers all my questions thoroughly. Here is a link he gave me. http://www.pdlabs.net/verapamil.html

Thanks for your help, and feel free to ask any questions

Tyler

[Tyler]

Tyler,

The IONO treatment protocol calls for 25 applications of verapamil and decadron, once every three days, some people do more if they have their own PHYSION units.  
ComeBackid

25 every 3 days? how is that possible? Do they do multiple applications every session? What about this guy who just said he is almost fixed using CIpro? Any thoughts on that?

-Tyler

[Tyler]

I think i am going to keep up the verapamil because i talked to a few guys that said they used it for six months and saw dramatic results. I am just going to add The L carnatine and Vit. E

[Steve]

Just Looking,

I think what ComeBackid was saying that there are a total of 25 applications, and they are spaced 1 application every 3 days, so you get 75 (or so) days to get the entire regimen of 25 applications.  Yeah, 25 in one day would tend to wear you out !

Steve  

[Rico]

Justlooking,

I think you have to go with your heart tells you, if you believe in it then you are half way there, the mind has a great play in healing. Remember also sometimes this goes away by itself, especially if you are young. If I was a young man with this condition I would put myself in the best shape possible for the next six months to give my body a chance to heal. Great diet, exercise, relaxing, sleeping well, ect....drink lots of water and juice, give your body a chance. If you believe in God, pray is powerful also, or nature. A day fishing or going for a walk and reading a good book. The problem many of us have in the being is to dwell on this and sit all cramped up on the computer looking for the magic pill, although being informed is good, it isn't the cure also. I really believe diet and exercise along with a couple supplements such as arginine will give you the best chance to a recovery, especially if you are young and do this from the beginning. Try a 30 day turn around on your life style, no junk food, cola, smokes, booze and late nights, start with a half gallon of distill water and fruits and veggies and lots of them for the first three of four days and then go to a balance diet, almost all raw food. I will write a diet for anyone who is interested in what I'm doing, I did my research on wound healing and tissue repair, pill popping won't do it alone, and remember you not what you eat, it is what you assimilate, you need to clean your self first with a fruit and veggies and water cleanse......keep positive brother, I believe you can beat this....I will say a pray for you....I try to say Ten Lord Prayers everynight for all my brothers in arms...God Bless You!

Rico

[ComeBacKid]

Steve,

That is exactly right!  For people who don't have the PHYSION uint and go into the doctors office to recieve the treatments, I think they only get like one treatment per week, or twice a week at the max.  If you have your own unit, you could give yourself daily treatments if you want!  The IOMED pads are kind of expensive however, and because of this I can't do treatments every day.

JustLookingtobefixed, if you have any questions on the IONO feel free to PM me.

ComeBackid

[Hawk]

I think i am going to keep up the verapamil because i talked to a few guys that said they used it for six months and saw dramatic results. I am just going to add The L carnatine and Vit. E

Tyler:  I am VERY interested in who these individuals are that saw ANY positive results with TV.  Are they on this forum?  I can verify that no such individuals participated in our TV Survey.

PS: Tyler, since you use your name and since we have no Tylers, I can change your forum name to Tyler if you like.  It may be easier for others to refer to.  It is completely up to you.

[ComeBacKid]

Hawk,

I was just going to say the same thing, the only person I've talked to that has reported success from TV was Kimo.  Tyler who reported they saw results from the TV? Did they say they got it from PDLabs or were they using the generic formula?  Where they on here, BTC... somewhere else?  

ComeBackid

[Tyler]

Rico,

Thank you very much for that long reply, i would love to see the diet you are using and i will definatly use it, i am already a very health oriented person.


Hawk, Yes you can change my forum name, and no they were not on this forum but people that my urologist asked if i could call in my area. So i gave them a ring and i didnt get ahold of one but the other two said they have seen great results. One said he was on his 7th month and had almost completely fixed his curve but the plaque hadnt gone down much, and the other said that his plaque was almost all the way gone by his 4th month and that now he is just straightening out again.

I thought these were encouraging though.

Also, i went to Stanford for a second opinion and the uro their said that i didnt even have any scar tissue, and that the bump was where i tore something, and the dent/curve was probably a result of that. Personally i think its BS, but he put me on some asperin (spell check) type thing that i have to take 24 pills a day of and said with vit E in 3 months i will be back to normal. I am going to go somewhere that i can get an ultrasound to be sure, but he wouldnt do it.  

[Hawk]

Tyler,

If you have contact with these individuals you should give them the PDS web address and encourage them to logon.  I am interested in their story.

[Liam]

Tyler,

Were the pills POTABA?  That is a treatment for Peyronies Disease.  That means even if the Uro was wrong and there really is scar tissue, he is treating you like you have Peyronies Disease.

I would not dismiss what the Uro said so quickly.  In 3 months, you will know for sure.  In the meantime take the meds, take the vitamin E and take the supplements for Peyronies Disease.  They won't hurt if taken properly.

Good Luck!

Liam

[youngpain21]

I have recently ordered a Physion iono unit, and I am having problems with the wrong circuit light constantly staying on and my treatment not working. It will work every once in a while, but it seems if I move an inch the wrong circuit light comes on. Has anyone else had any problems with the wrong circuit light coming on a lot? Everything is hooked up in the right spot, I have double checked dozens of times. I will probably end up having to call the Dr.'s office, but I was just wondering if anyone else had this problem and if so what helped it.

[ComeBacKid]

Youngpain21,

Are you using the cups provided by PHYSION?  These are extremely hard to administer... but they will tell you your doing something wrong.  I couldn't even use them cause they leaked, I got the IOMED pads which are much easier!  I'd highly recommend these pads, they are like a band aid you wrap around your penis. The cups are hard to administer, and the alligator teeth don't catch well on them.  If you wan't more information let me know, feel free to PM me anytime.

ComeBackid

[Tyler]

Tyler,

Were the pills POTABA?  That is a treatment for Peyronies Disease.  That means even if the Uro was wrong and there really is scar tissue, he is treating you like you have Peyronies Disease.

I would not dismiss what the Uro said so quickly.  In 3 months, you will know for sure.  In the meantime take the meds, take the vitamin E and take the supplements for Peyronies Disease.  They won't hurt if taken properly.

Good Luck!

Liam

Yep, i just got em for a whoppin $357.00 for 3 months worth. Has anybody seen anygood results using this? I am still using verapamil, taking 400iu of vit e morning and night and will start the potaba tomorrow morning. Does this seem light something good to do? The potaba cant make it worse in any way can it? Thank you for your help all.

-Tyler

[Liam]

I don't see how anything will hurt.  The only exception is POTABA that may upset your stomach.  This is only based on personal experience and what others have told me.

Liam

[Tim468]

Dear Young Pain,

If the Physion suplpied cups are not filled up enough, then the fluid does not cover the electrode tip. This is hard to see, but requires that about 3-4 cc of fluid go into the cup before it is covered. The instructions should show a fairly good picture of it. You may be getting fluid to wick up the side of the needle as you inject it into the cup. Be certain to visually determine that the fluid is being delivered well enough.

I disagree with ComeBackid a little bit. If your penis is fat enough, it is fairly easy to get a good seal around the base, and if your lesion is on the dorsum of the penis, then you should be able to target it well. However, if you are tending to "shrink" a bit right now to a smaller size (and many of us, faced with placing electrodes on the penis, do shrink!), or if your lesion is to the side, then the IOMED pads are absolutely needed, and the Physion cups will not work well enough.

Tim

[hopeful]

This is Hopeful- what doctor did you see- and how much did you pay for the unit.

Thanks,

I have recently ordered a Physion iono unit, and I am having problems with the wrong circuit light constantly staying on and my treatment not working. It will work every once in a while, but it seems if I move an inch the wrong circuit light comes on. Has anyone else had any problems with the wrong circuit light coming on a lot? Everything is hooked up in the right spot, I have double checked dozens of times. I will probably end up having to call the Dr.'s office, but I was just wondering if anyone else had this problem and if so what helped it.

[hopeful]

Any success - with this- I would like to know

Hopeful




Rico,


I use dmso, the 99.95 human grade version as part of the Thacker formula. I have never had any problems with burning or blistering. I also use it mixed with aloe vera and evening primrose oil, from gelcaps, as a way to massage my penis and warm up before my nightly VED treatment.

Cheers.
[/quote]

[hopeful]

Phil- ANy success- as I have a scrip for oone- but have not ordered yet- please tell me something positive- as it wil be 1 yr. next month that I got my Peyronies Disease...


Hopeful

link=topic=26.msg4676#msg4676 date=1153540314]
ComeBackid,

I had treatments twice a week for 6 weeks.  Used both dexamethasone and verapimil.  Interestingly, the negative lead was attached to drive mostly the steriod into the tissue.  Tried to keep over same location were the plaque could be felt.   Used the iomed pad.  

Phil
[/quote]

[phil]

Hopeful,

I seem to have ome minor improvement;  maybe a little less curve and a little fuller when erect.  I am going to get approval to undergo some more ionto.  You should check with ComeBackid or Tim to see what kind of progress they have been having.

Phil

[Tim468]

I am not sure how the iontophoresis has helped me - if at all.

I think I could call the low dose, mixed with Dexamethasone (decadron) a failure. Not much changed, and it sure did not get better. I changed over to a higher dose verapamil (I went from 2.5mg to 20 mg per mL), and I applied 2 mL to a IOMED pad. I dropped out the decadron.

After about 30 treatments with that, I have had mixed results. We had a little accident during our lovemaking, where she went North, and on her way back South, I bent East (and it hurt). I was quite concerned that that area was going to change, and it indeed started to get worse and tilt towards the left (or "East" from my perspective!). So the repetitive application of ionto to that area seems to have stopped it and made it get better. My long standing placque did not change.

I was ready to say that Ionto of verapamil is ONLY good for new or evolving lesions, but then I went on vacation, and could not do the VED or the Ionto for two weeks - and the older area got worse.

So I don't know - for ME it may have made it better (new lesion) and kept the semi-new lesion from getting any worse. The oldest lesion did not change, it seems.

I may try to do a set of decadron only applied to my older areas, and I will have to do that with the black lead on the penis and the red on the thigh.

Tim

[hopeful]

Tim.. I forgot- how long have you had Peyronies Disease??- It is important for me to know- as I understand that IONYO wil notwork well with Peyronies Disease patients that have ha dit for over several years- please advise

Hopeful

[hopeful]

Phil- thats great- when you say a little less curve- I am at 35% upward at the tip- If I got a 50% correction- I would feel like a new man- as it is right now- I can't penetrate- and I have lost the desire to try as I feel like a freak- in front of my wife....How long have you had your Peyronies Disease- I forgotu


Hopeful

[Tim468]

Dear Hopeful:

In answer to your question, I am 51 and I was 22 when I developed Peyronies Disease. The reason I am here, though, is that, it recently seemed to accelerate into "active" mode.

I firmly believe that *I* have several types of lesions. First, I have "old" lesions, that I define by first having happened a while back (duh), but also as not showing any more signs of progression (no pain, no obvious further changes in the shape, appearance or feel of my penis). Then, I have "New" lesions - those that more recently appeared and which got me moving (and brought me to these boards). My "new" lesions are of a variety of ages, though. See my post below, therefore, to please put my thoughts into context regarding the time I have had a lesion. In brief, I think Verapamil helped me *completely fix* a brand new lesion, it slowed down and stopped further worsening of a "newer" (ie 4-6 month old) lesion, and it does not seem to have helped my "old" lesions, of greater than a year or more.

An advantage (if one can call it that) is that since I was paying attention when my dick got hurt during intercourse about three months ago or so, I was able to start ionto of verapamil to that area within 1 day. Onviously, someone who had never heard of Peyronies Disease is not going to be able to act so proactively. But it does suggest that for those of us with longstanding disease, which sometimes activates, ionto may be a pretty good way to stop it in it's tracks.

Finally, one comment of yours really hit me. I do not want to be too graphic here, but what the hell, we're among friends. I also have an about 35 degree upward bend starting about 2/3 of the way down my dick. The bend is not an acute bend, nor is it unstable (hinge defect); it is more of a gentle curve. Since my erectile function is good (it's good enough - sometimes needs help with cialis), and my penile rigidity is thus pretty good. I have no problem with intercourse.

There are actually some benefits and disadvantages to an upward curve. The tip of my penis, in face to face intercourse, tends to massage her G-spot, and leads to better orgasms - I have not yet heard any complaints about this. This can be enhanced by entering your partner with her lying on the bed and you standing at the foot of the bed (um, between her legs) - the 90 degree angulation between your bodies increases the pressure from the head of your penis on the anterior wall of her vagina where the G-spot it located. A downside is that my control over orgasm is decreased because I find it so much more stimulating to have the head of my penis being rubbed right up against her vaginal wall. When you add in to the mix a bit of anxiety over performance, and a desire to keep a very hard erection (to prevent slipping out), the straining (you know, that sphincter-tightening squeeze we can do to make our erections harder)(similar to a "Kegel" squeeze by a woman) can lead to premature orgasm.

So for me, while all the above has led to a fairly large challenge emotionally - with concerns over my appearance and abilities as a lover - I have still found it possible to have sex. Listen Hopeful... go somewhere and take a good hard look at a new baby. A child with a presumably thicker diameter than your penis can travel through the vagina to the outside world. If that new baby can do that to get out through a vagina, then surely you can find a way to get your (presumably thinner diameter) penis into a vagina. And if your penis is larger than a newborn baby, well, go ahead and have the surgery - a Nesbit tuck shouldn't affect you at all!  

Seriously - talk to your wife and let her know how you *feel*. If you think that you look like a freak, then ask her how she sees you. Ask if you and she can lie together in the dark and touch each others' faces gently. See if she would be willing to simply run her fingertips over your skin lightly,and then let you do the same. You are not a freak - you are a decent and thoughtful man with a scary problem, who is scared and worried over his future. You have already cast your lot with her in life - do you really thinks she is going to abandon you over this? I doubt it.

Tim

[Old Man]

Tim:

Way to go Doc! Great post with meaning for someone who needed help.

Special regards, Old Man

[Blink]

Thanks Tim, I needed that too! You have a wonderful way with words. Keep the Faith...Blink

[BLBC]

Hopeful and the rest of you..... LISTEN to what Tim says! I do not find my man's dick freekish is any way shape or form. Currently he does, but I'm working on and I'm postiave I can cure that! Let's just say that curve, while it's new to you, can be very useful!  

[zigwyth]

Got a half tube of expensive PDLABS TV left if anyone wants it. Otherwise, I'll try it on my new headwound from my girlfriend for asking her to apply the emu oil on the plaque. Great post also Tim (As usual)
Ziggy.

[Lady Lisa]

  Very funny ziggy!

[ComeBacKid]

Guys,

I completed the 25 applications of 20mg/mL verapamil.  I was using IOMED pads and filling them to 2.5 cc's.  I attached the red alligator clip to the penis, and black alligator clip to the thigh.  At the conclusion of my treatment I can report there is no noticeable change in plaque, size, or bend, and no increased bloodflow, I can't say that the treatment did not prevent my condition from getting worse, but I believe the efficacy to be 0, I'm extremely disappointed.  

Next I will be trying only decadron applications using the black alligator clip or negative lead on the penis and the red clip on the thigh.  I will keep everyone posted on my final resuts of this.  Decadron has been said to work better on longer standing scars, and mine is definately that at 7 years and aging by the day.

ComeBackid

[hopeful]

Dear Tim..

I want to personally thank you for writing this message to me. It really touched me emotionally.  I am sure a lot of the problem is with me mentally- however,  besides the Peyronies Disease...I have ED...The one doctor that I went to (Dr. Carroll- who I do not think much of) would not prescribe Cialis or Viagra for me- as I have a history of heart [roblems- (electrical- arrythmyia) - so this is not working.  I do not have a family doctor or a current heart doctor- I do not take meds - I live with it. I also must say.. that I do consume alcohol usally every night- at least 2-3 glasses of wine or sometimes 2 martinni's, which Iam sure effects the ED.

As for my wife and I.. I think it may be too late- as we no longer have that type of intimacy- and it is terrible.
I have lost girth and size.. you are correct about a Baby- I am going to print your post and give it to my wife to read. Maybe she will begin to understand how I feel.

As for the IONTO... which one are you using?- and who prescribed it for you? - How long- and are you happy with the overall results.. My Peyronies Disease is a year next month- I have a script for one- but have not ordered it- Do you suggest trying it.. even though it cost $1,000??

Please advise,

Hopeful

Dear Hopeful:

In answer to your question, I am 51 and I was 22 when I developed Peyronies Disease. The reason I am here, though, is that, it recently seemed to accelerate into "active" mode.

Post edited to remove the quoting of  an entire post that already appears below

[zigwyth]

ComeBackid-Am truly sorry Ion didn't work. I think we were all waiting on your results to make decisions on our treatment options. I do want to remind everyone that what may or may not work for someone, might have completely different results for others, unless it's TV, which I think we all agree is practically worthless as a Topical application. Keep the Faith ComeBackid. I know you will continue on with the fight as I feel you have become one of our strongest soldiers/brothers here. Hopeful, I really hope you and your wife can possibly seek some counseling. I am living proof that(see psychological components post) there are truly receptive and caring women out there, once they understand the physical and emotional impact this has on men. I have gained alot of knowledge since having this Peyronies Disease on how to have more intimacy and pleasure with a woman in many other ways. If a woman knows that you appreciate her, makes her feel like the most beautiful/sexiest woman alive, finds that deep emotional connection that they desire, and last, finds ways to pleasure her in bed(different positions manageable with Peyronies Disease, orally, toys, foreplay, etc.), then I guarantee that woman would be CRAZY to leave her man. PM me if you need someone to talk to. This post may need to be moved to other subject matter. Sorry guys.Tend to ramble on.Zig

[Tim468]

ComeBackid, I feel for you. You sound relaxed though - so a break seems to have done you good. Like you, I have sort of "failed" iontophoretic applications of low and then high dose verapamil. I do wonder if those of us who fail, might have done better if we had the ability to use a higher driving current - say 6 instead of 4 milliamps. Since I am interested in using this application if at all possible, I will look into that and keep you and others posted. I look forwrad to hearing how it goes with the decadron - hope springs eternal, I guess.

Hopeful, I am sorry to hear that it may be too late for the two of you, but you might be wrong. The doctor who told you to avopid viagra or cialis was covering his ass - not willing to take a very low chance to help you. My understanding is that ischemic heart disease (a history of heart attacks) is a risk for doing worse on viagra - maybe. I know of no data that supports the idea that viagra hurts a conduction defect (which does not sound too bad).

I would see if cutting back to no more than one absolute ethanol equivalent a day (one beer = one glass of wine = one shot of distilled alcohol) doesn't help your ED. Also exercising daily improves erectile function greatly, as does weight loss if elevated. But using viagra or cialis should not present ANY risk at all - unless your doc knows something no one else knows. Try a better doctor - maybe a urologist could do it or a family doc, or even a doc in the box.

If you feel more likely to suceed with your erections then you are more likely to feel enough confidence to attempt to heal with your wife. So, as always, it comes down to YOU taking care of YOU. The only way to have a healthy "us" is to first work on yourself.

Good luck, Tim

[ComeBacKid]

Tim,

I was wondering what the results were when you measured in your "lab," how much of the verapamil was left over on the delivery pads after an apllication, I believe you said you were going to measure to see just how much was being driven into your penis, is the news good?

I'm also very interested to hear about what you find out on increasing the amps, however I probably can't afford another machine at this point after spending over two thousand dollars on a VED, IONO machine, TV from PDLabs, L arginine, ALC, and vitamin E.  This is something I'm surprised PHYSION has not pursued.

I'm starting to wonder myself if PHSYION falsified or over hyped their results in their literature.  Dr. Carrol told me dozens of people come to his office in Orlando, Florida to get Iontohporesis treatments and see moderate to good results, later it was learned that he only sees patients via teleconference, still many questions left unanswered about that guy, as hopeful has pointed out.  Dr. Levine doesn't even promote Iontophoresis, if it works so well why isnt he?  Why is phil seeing results using the negative lead and using decadron only when the study from PHYSION calls for mixed verapamil and decadron using the positive charge.  Why are several pharmacists telling me its impossible to mix verapamil and decadron together for Iono delivery cause they are different charges?  Why when I called PHYSION did they give me a bs answer and say they don't really know?  Still many questions left unaswered about PHYSION, and I seriously have to wonder if they over hyped their product seriously.

When I get home in a few days I"m going to start the decadron sequence with the negative charge(black alligator clip attached to penis), will keep everyone posted if I see any results... or if I don't.  

[Tim468]

Dear ComeBackid,

I share your disappointment about the iono results. Also, I share your feelings of confusion about why the results we are seeing are so different (and don't forget the essentially negative study out of Spain for the same protocol). In a recent review, a reviewer summarized this by saying more data needs to be collected, and cited one limitation of the study being that it was a "single institution" study. To me, that is code for "bias".

One need not attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by other means (greed, academic striving for promotion, a strong belief that something is "right" - whatever). I do know that a placebo effect can be stronger when a product is "sold" harder - though I canot find a way for that to happen with something like penile straightening (seems objective). At any rate, I agree with the viewer that more needs to be done.

I agree that decadron needs to go in with a negative lead if used alone. I am uncertain if Physion's explanation is correct - that the decadron and verapamil form a complex that is connected via their opposite polarity (but with a continued negative total charge), such at a a positive charge will carry the decadron in "piggybacked" to the strongly negatively charged verapamil (which is pulled in by the positive lead).

I did not find any data in a fairly lengthy reading of the iontophoresis literature, nor did the head of lab medicine at my hospital know, if that theory was correct. It seems like a fairly easy thing to check - but in answer to your question, I have not yet done so. Instead, I just moved ahead to the stronger verapamil and IOMED pads. I am also willing to just move ahead like you to a reversed polarity iono of the decadron to try it out. Like you, I wonder if it would have been better to spring for the more expensive machine that IOMED sells.

I'd still like to check out some of these questions, but it is a matter of finding time.

Tim

[ComeBacKid]

Tim,

I did not know PHYSION sold a more expensive machine, I take it with a stronger current?  After reading their study it seemed like there was only one machine, and it worked on like 60 percent of people or whatever there study claimed.  How much is the more powerful machine?  I tried to get insurance coverage for my PHYSION, no chance in hell that will happen!

ComeBackid

[Tim468]

ComeBackid, Physion does not sell a different machine; IOMED does.

http://www.iomed.com/prod-phoresor850.html

and the...

http://www.iomed.com/prod-phoresor900.html

The 850 is more programmable, and allows one to manipulate the settings a little bit. I would remind everyone who orders any such equipment, that tinkering runs the risk of causing full-thickness burns to the skin (I have seen that once, and it is more common in African Alericans than Caucasians)(we do iontophoresis in my clinic all the time, since it is used to diagnose cystic fibrosis).

The 850 allows one to seet the current for a 1 - 4.0 amps range (but not higher). I am not really sure of the output of the Pghysion one now.

Tim

"Subject line on this post edited for easy reference"