VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices

[Steve]

Rzz,

I'll leave questions 1 & 2 to others, but wanted to put in my 2 cents worth on #3.

When we VED users talk about increasing the flaccid size, I'm pretty sure that we're talking about the relaxed flaccid size.  The stretched size wouldn't change from VED usage unless the underlying corpus Cavernosum (where's that spell checker) have become inflexible due to lack of erections.  VED usage could in that instance result in a longer 'stretched' size by increasing the flexibility of the corpus but, if I'm not mistaken, implants will replace the corpus tissues.

I'm sure that there are others here with more experience/knowlege of the implants who can better explain what I'm trying to say.

Steve

[Old Man]

RZZ:

Will try to give you the benefit of my experiences(s) and those of  guys that I have worked with on Peyronies Disease and ED.

First, I should state that in my case, the VED did give me a larger size as a result of using the VED for over 6 months immediately after my radical prostatectory. But, if my memory serves me right, it only gave me about 1/2 inch longer than I had when I was in my 20s. So, I consider that the VED can and will return one's lost dimensions due to Peyronies Disease, ED or whatever, but cannot give much if any added length.

Now to answer questions in order:
Nr. 1: I do firmly believe that with a proper VED protocol that erections can be helped. Unless there are other medical reasons such as diabetes, venous leakage, psychological and other related blood flow problems, using the VED on a daily routine can and will in most cases give better erections. As we all know, the retainer ring(s) are used where there is a venous leakage problem or other medial maladies. So, bottom line, the answer is yes that VED usage can give better erections due to the stretching of the tissues that may have become "drawn up" due to lack of usage.

Nr. 2: I respectfully take issue with Dr. Levine's method of pumping up and holding for 20 to 30 minutes at a time. First of all, that would be the same as using a tourniquet, like say for cutting off blood flow to a wound. The constant pressure may or may not give better stretching, but I liken my method of stretching to working out at a gym, where you do repetitions/cycles of muscle exercises to cause varying degrees of pressure to desired areas. Holding the blood in the corpus chambers that long seems to me would put overdue strain on the smooth muscle and therefore may cause further damage. The protocol that is being tested in the Birmingham, AL clinical trials using the three cylinder method is based on experience of a number of Peyronies Disease patients, myself included. The varying times of holding the pressure IMHO gives the tissue a better flow of blood at varying degrees of pressure over a shorter period of time each day. (Aded Note: I tried to hold the VED pressure for the 20 to 30 minute cycle to test his theory, I had to constanty add addition pressure to maintain a steady pressure each time I tried it. And, it was more time consuming.)

NR 3 This question is a very good one, RZZ. My mother-in-law's last husband had an implant done about 5 years before he died. He was not overly endowed with dimensions and desired to get as much as possible out of his implant. He was advised by his uro/surgeon to do daily exercises similar to jelqing, but with minimal pressure for the cycles. The operation was done after several weeks of these exercises. Several days before the surgery, the uro gave him a Caverject injection to determine what erection he could get that way. It was not too successful, and the uro went with the manually stretched dimensions for sizing the implant. He was successful in getting about the same length he had before the surgery. Now, bottom line about using the VED for a while before surgery - IMHO, my belief is that if you see an increase in the flaccid state as a result of the exercises, you should get at least that much size using the implant.

The above is just my considered opinions based on my observations and working with guys in the ED, Peyronies Disease and mens health area with a local support group and a local uro group. Hope this gives you a little better understanding about this subject. Let me know if you have further questions that I can answer or get an answer for you.

Regards, Old Man

[Rzz]

Old Man,

In regards to Dr. Levine and his recommendation in the use of the VED. Although I'm pretty sure I read his recommendations correctly, let me go back and read it again to be 100% certain that is what he said or more importantly that is what he meant. Because if I read it wrong, I don't want people using the VED to think since a well respected doctor such as Levine says, the pump-up/ hold 20-30 min and repeat 2-3 times a day is the best method, they change thier method. I want to be absolutely sure that is what he meant. I don't know, maybe he meant to use this method only in conjunction with Verapamil Injections. Let me go look at it again.

I know the web site where I read this about Levine's recommendation for using the VED, I just don't know where on that particular site I saw it. So give me an hour or so and I'll get back to you on this.       Thanks,    Rzz


 

[Hawk]

Rzz,

I am sure that IS what he said.  I remember it being a topic of discussion here before but I can't find it.  The consensus was that most could see no logic or benefit in holding blood that de-oygenates for 30 minutes when you can easily get the stretch and still keep a good blood flow by pumping/holding, releasing, and repumping.    

[Rzz]

I just want everybody to know that I'm not recommending in any way, shape or form on how to use the VED. I have very little knowledge on the subject and just recently began considering using a VED myself. I'm not recommending Dr. Levine's or anybody else's method because I don't know enough to make any reccomensations. I do know that Old Man is very, very knowlegable on the subject and as far as the VED he is someone to listen to. I just wanted to know what everybody thought about Levine's method of using the VED. I also wanted to be 100% sure that I read correctly what he said.

I went back and read agian what Dr, Levine said about using the VED. I did indeed read it correctly the first time. He reccomends a method of ( Pump and hold for 20-30 minutes 2-3 daily.) He kind of relates his method of pump and hold for 20-30 min. to molding the scar tissue and making it more elastic; compared to the method of pump-release/pump release as more of stretching the scar tissue and just making it longer but not as elastic.  

[Old Man]

RZZ:

I have been away from the house for several hours. Just read Hawk's and your posts. You were exactly correct about Dr. Levine's time limit, etc.

I still take issue with it for the reason that Hawk states in his prior post. Blood held that long in the corpus chambers would lose most if not all its oxygen and I see that as bad. Since I am a heart patient having had bypass surgery, I would not for any reason hold the blood in any part of my body for that length of time.

Anyway, we are all on the same page now about this. Thanks for your input. If you decide to try the VED protocol, would be glad to share any and all information you desire about the proper way to use it.

Regards, Old Man

[Hawk]

In all due respect to Dr. Levine, I am sure he is simply speculating as to what seems kind of rational to him.  I think he would readily acknowledge, and openly state that he has absolutely no comparative data on which to base his opinion.  Generally any stretch is somewhat more effective slow and long over short and jerky.  I think he refers to the pump and release method as kind of a tugging motion.  There are two issues that make me question this.

1.  Pumping and holding for a couple minutes is not jerking or tugging.  It is a slow controlled stretch.

2. The stretch with a VED is caused by blood gorging the chambers.  This blood loses oxygen and all doctors and manufactures of VED's recommend a 30 minute maximum for holding the same blood in the penis with a retainer band.  There can be no doubt that holding the same blood in the penis wit a constant vacuum also drops the Oxygen levels.  It is commonly agreed (I think even by Dr,. Levine) that oxygenation plays some role in decreasing TGF-B1. TGF-B! is a growth factor responsible for the over production of collagen.

3.  I will throw in a 3rd reason.  A VED can draw blood through the thin wall of a capillary.  This is especially if a man is taking blood thinners including natural thinners like vit E, garlic, ginkgo.  In my VERY humble opinion, wonder if the longer pump time does not make it more likely for this to occur when compared to pump/hold and release.

Weighing the evidence we have, I would opt for pump/hold for 2 minutes and release, with each pump gradually reaching a tighter pump but over pumping to the point of pain or even moderate discomfort.

[Tim468]

To my knowledge, Dr LEvine has not ever been asked to clarifythe specifics of what we are debating. Thus, his comments should be construed, IMHO, as a response to "how long is long enough", and "how do you do this?"

When one compares a jerky method, then of course, prolonged stretching is better. But most of us who do it periodically release pressure.

I have found a couple of things to be true for me. First, my flaccid stretched length is not as long as my erect length. In general, the medical literature says that the erect length will be about 1 1.5 cm longer than the length that one can stretch a flaccid penis out to. But for me the difference is more pronounced. I believe that I have "contractile elements" - namely smooth muscle - that leads me to draw uptight; to "turtle" a bit when I am flaccid (as if I were cold). So the difference for me - when I compare a stretch from that state to my erect state - shows an about 3 cm difference in length.

When I stretch with the VED, I am basicly starting at that shorter length - even at the same vacuum as wll later stretch me out longer. For me, the limiting step seems to now be a cord that runs along the dorsum of my penis, and that seems to stretch a bit over time. Thus, I gain about an inch or more over a ten minute period as things seem to loosen up and relax, and the maximal stretch is finally seen.

I return to the pre-VED length after I am done over a variable amount of time - perhaps 10 to 60 minutes. So I think that there is a seeming benefit for me in prevention of a gradual shortening that might be going on due to Peyronies Disease otherwise (I have no proof it would be different if I never did this at all, of course).

So, I see a gradual lengthening over the usuall 30 minutes I stretch. I release perdiodically to readjust the chamber and to reseat it. By so doing, I seem to help gain the better length for the latter part of my stretching exercises. So for me, the periodic readjustments are crucial to feeling like I am doing it properly. I also end with longer periods of time without break (ie 5-8 minutes between releases), once I am at my "good and longer" length.

Tim

[tdsc]

Bottom line, from those who have used the VED, does it cause a weaker erection?  Does the penis look like a beat up sausage in the hours following?  How long does it take to regain a natural erection after using the VED?

[Old Man]

tdsc:

From my 12 years plus personal experience in using three different models of VEDs, I have not had any lessening or weaker erections, no "beat up appearance" as you say and no real problems of any kind. In some cases, like mine having venous leakage, I probably will never be able to attain a natural erection sufficient to penetrate and therefore rely on the VED for erections.

Those guys who have no physical problem could possible regain the ability to obtain an erection after VED therapy. Some have reported their success with VED therapy helping in that area. I suppose it is all based one's mental attitude and physical conditioning, etc.

My experence has only been positive. There were times when being overzealous in pumping caused some minor edema which went away after a few days off the VED pumping. This, of couse, taught me not to overpump the pressure and that has been my caution to all since those episodes.

I know of no person who has reported a decrease of erections while using the VED. You have read all the posts by many guys using the VED and they should give you an insight as to their experience.

Old Man

[Hawk]

from those who have used the VED, does it cause a weaker erection?  Does the penis look like a beat up sausage in the hours following?  How long does it take to regain a natural erection after using the VED?

Your questions and comments are difficult to understand.  They seem to offer bizarre findings, questionionable, or non-existent sources, departure from accepted medical principles, stubborn prejudice, and a resistance to consider facts.  As the forum administrator I have to begin to wonder if you are a serious poster and a legitimate member or simply attempting to distract a serious forum for your idle amusement.  There are 860 posts on this single topic.  Most are about VED usage.  Have you read them?  Have you bothered to read any of them?  Can you seriously think we are morons that use a device and are too unobservant to know if it decreased our erections?  Are we so stupid to regularly use a device that would make our penis look like a "beat up sausage?"  The facts are that you are among the largest assembly of experienced Peyronies Disease sufferers ever to come together to form a support group.  The intellectual caliber of their posts, the analytical nature of their search for improvement, and their quest for education on the facts, is unequaled.

I am going to answer your questions and encourage others that wish to do the same, even thought the obvious answers are already here for anyone not too lazy or afraid to find the facts.  I want you to know that you are a welcome member of this group and you will remain so as long as it appears that you are sincere and not deliberately being absurd to disrupt our forum.  We tolerate ignorance and mental limitations.  In fact we embrace them and try to help.  We embrace honest difference of opinion. We have no tolerance however for pranksters, the insincere, or those that just want to disrupt serious conversation.

Answer: The VED, if used with anything approaching common sense, gives an erection that looks like any other erection.  If used in a pump/hold and release treatment method, the erection it produces is the same to the touch, color, shape, and every other aspect of a normal erection.  It can of course be pumped a bit fuller or a bit less than a normal erection.  In either case, the after-effect is one of a bit of a fuller hang for a brief time (much like after any erection).  If used once or twice daily the fuller hang remains in between VED sessions but it will shortly go away at anytime you cease using the VED.  Having read thousands of VED posts on many types of forums, I have never read anyone that felt the VED decreased their natural erection.  If you could get natural erections prior to the VED, you can get a natural erection immediately upon removing the VED.  I have never know a recognized urologist or sexual medicine specialist that expressed any concerns of proper VED use damaging erection quality.  I have known those that thought it enhanced natural erection quality.  This is true even with doctors that doubt the VED's effectiveness as a Peyronies Disease treatment.

When you sign on the main page of the forum you will see a listing for "Child Board" "Newly Diagnosed Highlights - Quickly educate yourself on each topic found on our "Discussion Forum"  I encourage you to use this for its intended purpose.  After putting in a little time there, feel free to ask any sincere questions or offer any sincere comment you may have.

Regards

[George999]

I just want to share with you all a little simple experiment I did a few days back when we were all in the middle of this VED discussion.  I don't recommend this as a therapy, but I am finding the idea intriguing.  I have seen it suggested before, but just kind of wrote it off as being a bit loony.  What I did (sort of as a result of our discussion) was to vigorously massage my little plaques and the band of plaque connecting them to the point that they were fairly severely inflamed to the point of noticeable pain.  In theory this would be considered 'a bad thing to do' since it caused inflammation.  However, to my surprise, the next night I noted less deformity in my erections.  And over the following few days I have noticed that the band of plaque between the two larger plaques seems to have shrunk.  And the larger plaques seem to have softened.  I know this is not all that 'scientific', but it was definitely not the expected outcome and I definitely plan to worry less about how I might stimulate the plaques to the point of inflammation.  I know that one thing I have experienced with the Horny Goat Weed, Maca and Vasoflow is some really rock hard to the point of painful erections.  And these have not resulted in any negative side effects.  If anything they have caused an improvement in my condition.

[gerMike]

I bought a new VED with a gauge to control the pressure. Are there any recommendations how much pressure to apply for excercises? I want to use the pump up/release cycles.

[Rzz]

2 Things:

1) I've read where you and other regular VED users have said that when one uses the VED to achieve an erection and then uses a restrictor ring to maintain that erection for sex, he should not leave the ring on for more than 30 minutes. I've also read where it actually says that in the instructions that come with the VED. I have 2 questions regarding this.   ****If one takes the restrictor ring off after 30 minutes, how long should he wait until he pumps back up with the VED and uses the restrictor ring to maintain another erection?       *****Does intercourse, oral sex and finally an orgasm feel the same with a restrictor ring erection?

2) Old Man, I noticed in your last post you said you have venous leakage. In my research, I have read many times that venous leakage in many cases can be fixed surgically. It used to be that this surgery only had about a 35% success rate and because of the low success rate was not even reccomended for elderly patients. However; with the many advances in recent years and with a surgeon who is highly skilled in the procedure, this success rate is now closer to 75%. If I'm not mistaken, I believe the procedure is now mostly done by a vascular surgeon; not a urulogist. In addition, I also seem to remember that thier are different types of venous leakage and some type still have a somewhat low success rate range of about 40%-50%. Is this something you and your doctor have talked about.                Rzz

[Tim468]

TDSC - I look fine and get normal erections whenever I want them (within reason). It is really hard to know if you are stubborn or spoofing us, tdsc. Why do you imagine that we would do something to ourselves that is harmful?

to gerMike

I use pressures of 100-200 mm Hg negative pressure. I start lower and gradually increase, using a gentle milking pressure to pull blood into the penis. When it is full of blood, I cap off at  -200 mm Hg pressure - that is what feels good to me.

I periodically release over the first ten minutes about once every 3 minutes, readjust it, and milk it a bit as I go negative again. By 5-10 minutes, I tend to leave it at -200 pressure and to unclip it, and read. I do this in the tub, for I feel that the warm water increases the stretchiness of my penis - but not much. Mostly, it is convenient and private.

Since most blood pressure is less that 200 mm Hg, it is unlikely that arterial blood flow will exit my penis. I therefore feel that periodic release is important for better oxygenation. I do not know, though, if that is the pressure that al the major blood vessels are "seeing" inside my penis - it may be that I still get some inflow and outflow despite the erection.

Interestingly, since I usually do this at bedtime, I have rarely tested my penis afterwards. But I did the other day and found that my penis retained its much straighter appearance with a "natural erection" (no retaining rings - I don't do that). That was pretty fun! My dorsal curvature usually reappears - in that if I get a spontaneous erection later, the dorsal curve is back (thought I have seen some improvement in the angulation over the past 6+ months). So, I see this as a very gradual process for me, and it is aided by the supplements.

Tim

[Old Man]

RZZ:
When using the restrictor ring for sex and you have gone the 30 minute cycle, you must remove the ring and pump up again if you have not reached a climax/orgasm and desire to continue until you have one. I don't know of any time period that has been specified anywhere by medical personnel or a uro, etc. In my case, I usually wait about 5 minutes and while I am waiting, I sort of massage the old tool to help with equalizing the blood flow, etc. Then I pump up again and apply the retainer, etc.

In my case, I do lose a small amount of feeling when reaching a climax using the retainer ring(s). It is not enough to cause any concern for me or the wife. We enjoy sex as usual, except for the positions we use due aging requiring modified positions from what we used when we were much younger. Age and arthritis causes ones body to require different "strokes" for instance. So, anyway, the loss of feeling does not pose a problem for us and I have not seen many complaints about that from anyone.

Now about the venous leakage surgery - I have heard and read about the surgery you are talking about. Since I have no problem with using the VED for erections, I never explored the possibility of having the surgery done. Since my surgery history includes 14 or 15 major and minor surgeries, I just don't want to have any more done in the private area. I am facing two or three surgeries now and that will be enough for me!

Old Man

[Angus]

I bought a new VED with a gauge to control the pressure. Are there any recommendations how much pressure to apply for excercises? I want to use the pump up/release cycles.

   For gerMike and any others who may have a vacuum/negative pressure gauge that measures in inches not millimeters, here are some numbers I use. I usually hover around -5 inches Hg of vacuum when using the ved. That would be the equivalent of -125 mm and is a very comfortable amount that causes little if any discomfort. I can stand up to -7 to -10 inches Hg of vacuum but not held very long. Below are some conversion numbers that should help keep some of our explanations clear and more understandable. These are rounded off numbers and not taken out several decimal places, which would be overkill for the small vacuum gauges we use.
  Hoping this doesn't confuse the issue... but we have both metric and standard (US) vacuum gauges in use here.

Inches Hg     mm Hg
4                  100
5                  125
6                  150
7                  180
8                  205

[bodoo2u]

Can anyone tell me how large the largest of the three cylinders should be when using the 26-week protocol? I purchased 1.5- and two-inch cylinders, and by the time I'm ready for the 7th week I will have purchased the largest size. Is penis circumference a consideration when purchasing the largest cylinder?  

Also, write me privately if you plan to order from Bostonpump.com.

[Hawk]

Also, write me privately if you plan to order from Bostonpump.com.

Bodoo2u,

I am curious about that quote.  If you have a useful opinion or experience concerning this company I would encourage you to share it with the thousands that use the forum.  Most will NOT contact you privately and you may not be in a position to quickly respond if they did.  That is the entire point of the forum.

[Tim468]

If anyone has questions regarding Boston Pumps, they can feel free to post openly on the boards to get my opinions! I recently ordered from them and have no complaints at all. The only minor thing to mention is that they apply a tape measure on the side of the cylinder to use to "follow your progress". The problem I have with it is that it starts at about 1/2 to 3/4 inch from the base, so that the measured length is less than what one might actually measure if one were to use a rule on the upper side (the side you can see) of the penis. I know it is silly, but it is a bit discouraging to read a length that is shorter than I really am!

As far as pressures... I am trying out the Boston Pump cylinder that includes the soft sleeve. It feels much better to not have my scrotum sucked into the larger cylinder now by the pump! I note that when I use the smaller cylinder that fits "too tightly" to allow for full expansion, that I can apply greater pressures (at about -200 mm Hg) and this is quite comfortable. However, when I use the larger cylinders that allow for lateral expansion of the penis, the higher pressures get uncomfortable and I prefer to use about -125 mm Hg vacuum. I hope that helps. It also shows me that the gauge may be useful in determining what we are doing, so we can do it better.

Tim

[Steve]

To answer your original question, the ID of the largest cylinder of the Augusta 3 cylinder model (at least mine) is about 2 1/16" (about 54 mm).

[bodoo2u]

Tim,

I don't want to face a lawsuit so I decided that it might be better to talk about my issues in private. They may not even be that big of a deal for most guys, it just depends on what method of payment they use.

I initially ordered a complete pumping package and an additional cylinder from bostonpump.com. The site instructions say that you should not hit the back button, but when I hit the submit button the site warned me that there was a problem with my order. I waited a while and finally decided that I needed to go back to see if I had improperly entered my credit card info. In frustration, I repeated that step twice to no avail.

Something told me to go back to the web site later and lo and behold there were three orders for nearly $200 each showing when I logged in. I logged on to my bank account and there were three check card holds for nearly $600. What would have happened if it was bill time? I could have been overdrawn.

I called and left a message and sent several emails but no one responded, and the holds remained on my check card for what seemed like an eternity.

The worse part of the experience is the privacy issue. The company owner will inconvenience you by requiring you to personally sign for the package, which can be a problem if work during postal operation hours. Yes, he says it is for privacy reasons and he will wrap it in plain wrapping paper for your protection, but he does nothing to protect your privacy with regards to how the company name appears on your bank statement.

Imagine how the tellers at my local bank branch will look at me when they see Bostonpump.com on screen during a transaction. Most of them are young women and they have access to the Internet. Surely they will put the site's name in their browser window and see that I am trying to enlarge my penis, which is what the site claims it's products will do.

Thankfully, after the orders were removed from my account the three bostonpump.com charges no longer appear (at least not on my online account).

Since I really need the pump for Peyronies Disease and it is a lot less expensive that the Soma, I ordered again, this time using paypal. Lo and behold, Paypal placed the name of the company on my bank statement at least in part. It says "bostonpumpc".

I guess I'm just embarrassed to have the tellers at my bank thinking that my penis is too short. I emailed the site about my concerns so that they can help protect their customers a little better, but I never received a response.

Some of you may think I'm being petty, but I think that Peyronies Disease sufferers have enough to worry about (such as family and friends thinking we're gay for not pursuing women) without having to suffer further embarrassment.

Also, the site says that orders over $100 will be shipped free of charge, but there is no way to remove the $10 shipping charge. The owner/manager says he will refund it to you. Why not just create a process for removing it right away?

One more thing, the site says they us Priority Mail for shipping. I ordered my product on April 19 and today is April 24. That's five days if you don't count the day I ordered.

[Hawk]

BoDoo,

Thanks for sharing your concerns.  They need to be addressed for the benefit of others.

I understand your concern, but I can assure you that tellers (actually bookkeeps, not the tellers) have literally tens of thousands of transactions per day electronically logged to bank accounts in their location.  They no more have time, means, or reason to search one out on the internet than you do to mentally match boob size with licence plate numbers of the women you pass as you are driving to work on the interstate. That would be true even if they included Bostonpump.com.  Bostonpumppc would only be a guess even if someone cared enough and had time to investigate.  On top of that, consider  that you have no more face time with the people in bookkeeping at your bank than you do with the women that no doubt work directly for Bostonpump.  Those women know what you ordered, the ones at the bank could not even guess.  As a further obstacle, I can tell you as an Information Technology Manager, I am sure that women in a bank environment would risk their job by surfing penis enlargement sites on the payroll.

Finally, if you setup PayPal so that you have money in your paypal account rather than authorizing Paypal to draft your bank account there is no connection between your bank and a paypal payee.  Your bank issues $200 to paypal that is held by paypal.  later you spent $200 or less and paypal pays from your paypal account and your bank is not involved.

PS:Trust me, men with 10 inch penises try to enlarge them.  If you don't believe me just check out thunderer.com

[bodoo2u]

Hawk,

I hear ya, man. Thanks for the Paypal advice. I still think the company owner should do something about having a different name appear on the statement; lots of companies do it.

I guess I'm not all that upset anymore. I eagerly look forward to receivng the product and getting started, especially after reading about the results that some of the other guys on the forum have achieved. I'm about 80-degrees to the right and two years into the disease.

[Tim468]

Boodoo,

Your concerns are reasonable - but one thing we do is live in embarrassment and fear - a LOT. I am glad that you overcame your fear to take care of yourself.

Tim

[allj]

Let me introduce myself:
My name is Alan. I'm a 60 year old clinical social worker who has been married for 38 yrs. I live in MA.
I have been reading this forum for 6 months – ever since my life took a sad turn. I have appreciated all the advice and camaraderie on the site and need to ask a few questions.
I won't get into the details of what my penis looks like. Suffice it to say it grosses me out. I had an ultrasound. My urol, Michael O'Leary from Brigham Women's in Boston, said that I have mostly scar tissue but have some plaque that isn't calcified yet. I am taking l-arginine, l-carnitine, pentox, and cialis. I am arguing with my insurance about a Soma. I'll buy a VED from Boston Pumps if I don't get approved.
1. If I have to buy a pump, are the size tubes I need a 1.5, 1.75 and 2"?
-Are contour design tubes better than standard shaped ones?
2. Would you folks recommend topical Magnesium Sulfate or other topicals?
3. Is there consensus on whether traction devices are as effective as a VED? Do you have to wear this device under your clothes all day or do you use it like the VED?
4. I enjoy pleasing my wife as much as I enjoy being satisfied. With the bend at the bottom and top and the bulge in the middle, it's not the same. Does anyone use penis extenders http://www.cyberskin.com/product_detail.asp?PID=0832-7&CatID=9 ?
5. Any other advice?

I haven't seen any improvements with the meds and hoping a device does something.
Much appreciated.  Alan

[Liam]

It is my understanding insurance covers VEDs for ED not for Peyronies Disease.  Check this out.  I don't think i would be a stretch (no pun intended) for a doctor to write an Rx with this diagnosis and treatment.

I don't believe anything on the surface will really help.  There may be some substances that have a palliative effect.  This is my opinion.  And if I heard there was a chance something would work (that made it through my BS filter), I would try it.

For my the problem with the "wang-dang-doodle stretchers" (traction) is the time needed to wear it.  I tried it and it helped the "turtle effect" (imagine the head of the turtle going back into its shell) when flaccid.  However, I was sitting at home while using it.  There is no way to use this unless you don't have to be around anyone.  You also need to check it every hour because of the tubing noosed around the old "Tom Dooley".  I think it could possibly work, if, you can wear it long enough.  

Another point comparing TDs with VEDs is a VED stretches in all directions (it pumps you up ::::Austrian accent::.  The TD applies only a longitudinal stretch.  The longitudinal stretch is maintained for much longer, though.  I presume you've read about Dr. Levine doing the study on TDs and Peyronies Disease.

I can't understand how a penis extender will fit over the curve.  Also, how much stimulation would you receive?  I know thats not always the point.  It is a consideration though.

Good Luck and Welcome!

Liam

[Old Man]

Liam and Alan:

Liam, you have hit upon the magic words for the VED. The overall stretching, lengthwise and in girth provided by the VED is far advanced over the lengthwise stretching only of the extenders. The extenders have their place, but as you say, how can one wear the devices and carry on a normal life in public i.e. such as an office environment. Can't imagine being out in public with the added baggage showing through one's pants.

Alan: As Liam says, consider all possibilities of what each device can and will do for you. Also, most insurance companies will pay at least a part of the cost of a VED when RX'd by a doctor for ED. Peyronies Disease is another matter. The diagnosis code must be the proper on in any case before any insurance company will kick in costs, etc.

Old Man.

[Kimo]

Hey Guy's,,my ins paid for my VED only because my Doc wrote them a letter stating that peyronies had caused my ED,,,,most ins will pay for it if it's under ED,,not peyronies.  My ins paid for my devise in full, so i got the best one available........kimo

[allj]

Thanks for your responses. The VED is definitely it. I am having trouble getting insurance to pay because I have an HMO and can't get the Soma in network. Even with the bad press I still may go with Boston Pumps - maybe get 2 day shipping. Has anyone gotten or has anyone heard about how the contoured tubes from Boston Pumps work? Alan

[Liam]

I got my Augusta Medical VED from a local medical equipment business not directly from Augusta Medical.  This might be an "end run" for you.    

[allj]

Thanks for the suggestion. I tried calling around and couldn't find a retailer. According to Augusta there is no one in MA that their distributor sells to. I'll know in a few days whether the appeal to my insurance provider is approved. Alan

[Tim468]

A quick report on my VEDs

Bostom pumps worked fine with me in sending, billing etc. No problems at all.

I did not get the contoured cylinder, I got the regular cylinder (image one at the bottom of the post). My complaint about that is that it seems to dig into my pubic region at higher pressures. The rounded edge  is a bit uncomfortable.

OTOH, the "sleeve master" (image 2) I got that goes with the largest cylinder has worked wonderfully at being comofortable, and keeping my penis in, and my scrotum out, of the cylinder!

The cylinder I got through a site that sells exotic sex gear, including cylinders, has been more comfortable, primarily because it has a wider flange at the bas (the stockroom.com). It was more costly, but for a middle sized cylinder, I like the flange better than the Bostom Pump alternative.

Tim

[Tim468]

Here is the cylinder that cuts into me a bit from Boston Pumps.

Tim

[bodoo2u]

Tim,

Thanks for the info on the Bostonpump cylinder that will cut into me. I guess I can wait 11 days and counting for a product that might cause me pain upon reciept and use. LOL.  

[newguy]

I'm considering purchasing a bostonpump unit and am intending to follow the 3-Cylinder Vacuum Therapy Protocol. My penis circumference is 5.5inches, which I assume means I need a cylinder 1.75 in size (5.5 / 3.1416 = 1.75). However, according to the BostonPump site table, I should be using a cyliner 2 1/4 in size:

4 3/4" ------ 1 1/2"
5" ------ 1 3/4"

5 1/4" ------ 2"

5 1/2" ------ 2 1/4"

5 3/4" ------ 2 1/2"

6"------ 2 3/4"

6 1/4" ------ 3"

6 1/2" ------ 3 1/4"

6 3/4" ------ 3 1/2"

7" ------ 3 3/4"

http://www.bostonpump.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=2


1)Can anyone clarify this situation for me?

2)Can anyone recommend which 3 sized cylinders I should purchase for the small, medium and large stages of this process?

[Liam]

Just reading I can think of two reasonable possibilities for the discrepency.  The company may be refering to outside diameter and you (more correctly for your purposes) are using inside diameter.  This theory is reliant on the thickness of the tube wall.

Another thought is the company is allowing a "safety margin".  After all, we don't want the "serpent" to get stuck  .

I love a mystery.  OK I'm taking off my hat, extinguishing my Meerschaum pipe and laying my magnifying glass aside.

I'll leave the recommendations to the pros.

Liam

[Old Man]

newguy:

My recommendation to you about the cylinder size is this: just make sure that you are using the inside diameter sizes when you purchase the cylinders. It would be best to determine from the company prior to the purchase which sizes you want or need based on your physical dimensions.

As Liam states, you will need to allow for expansion of the penis while pumping, but the small cylinder should be sized so that your penis will be confined more than the two larger cylinders. This to help "orient" your penis to become straighter while doing the exercise therapy.

There are guys on the forum that have made their own and should be able to give you some insight on how they determined the sizes they are using.

Old Man

[newguy]

Thanks for your posts guys. I have emailed bostonpump about this issue, so if/when I hear back from them, I'll be sure to help solve this conumdrum .

I've been reading posts here for a few days now and it's proved to be a treasure trove of advice and opinion for me.  A little history: When I was around 15 years old I accidentally caused trauma to my penis. As a result of this a swelling developed about a third of he way up on the left side. This then progressed to a bend which has remained ever since (i'm now 26), though I can't feel any hard lumps. I do not think my such as an extreme one (maybe a 30 degree angle and a 'little indentation' on the left side, which very occasionally 'buckles' during sex in part due to the angle --> another worry), and I do not have trouble gaining an erection. I am eager to experiment with ways of making the problem less apparent. The curve occurs very suddenly so in some ways this creates a more dramtic look than someone with a natural curve.

From reading through the forum, it seems to me that injections pose their own problems and probably shouldn't be used as an initial treatment for someone in my situation. Supplements too, due to me living with this issue for over 10 years, would probably not be the best treatment. I am somewhat encouraged by the level of success some of you have had with VED's though. As my case is not as dramatic as some and the indentation that noticeable, I am hopeful that this treatment will be appropriate for me. When I've purchased the pump I will be sure to keep for all informed of my progress.

One question: Is there a gallery section of penis pics before and after various treatments? I think it's something that would give hope to people trying out various treatments.

ADDED: I am a little wary of the bostonpump site since it only appears to belinked to from a helpful of sex sites and some of the site pages, such as the company info one are incomplete which doesn't fill me with confidence:

http://www.bostonpump.com/index.asp?PAGEACTION=COMPANY

I am eager to buy a quality three cylinder VED (though i don't mind buying the cylinders seperately) without prescription and preferably without building it myself..  
 

[Tim468]

Boston Pump is in the dubious business of penis enlargement. Therefore they recommend a cylinder that is larger than what you have to allow room for growth. Their recommendations are irrelevant when it comes to the protocol that we use here.

My advice is to chose your cylinder sizes, order them and get going. The 1.5 inch diameter size sounds right for a "small" cylinder for you to start with, because the whole idea is that you are confined and thus forced straighter. In a roomy cylinder you have room to bend, and the straightening effect is lost.

So get a 1.5, a 1.75 and a 2.0 and get going!

However, I have found that my Boston Pump cylinder with the sleeve is very nice, but the regular one cuts into me a bit. I like the one from "The Stockroom.com" better.

All of these sites are related to sex, and so expect sexually themed materials there, along with hype about penis enlargement. Finally, "Good Vibrations" out of SF is very good, and sells high quality cylinders as well.

Tim

[allj]

fortunately my insurance has agreed to pay for a somaerect. I pay about a $1000 a month for insurance. I am also getting some magnesium sulfate cream and taking pentox, cialis, l-carnitine. Hope my expectations that improvements are expected and warranted.  Alan

[Angus]

 
 I fully agree with Tim's recommendations on cylinder sizes. For the small cylinder, it should be 1/8 or 1/4 inch smaller than penis diameter. 1/8 inch smaller would be best. If the penis is 1 5/8 inches across then you should get the 1 1/2 inch cylinder and so on, as we are talking about ID or inside diameters. This will give a firm but still comfortable fit for small cylinder useage.  

[voulezvous]

OK...enough already on cylinder sizes (kidding).

I'm actually writing to pose another issue which has to do with sizes as well.

I've seen many, many references over the months to concerns over changes in penis length / width as a result or "byproduct" of Peyronies Disease. It is clearly a big deal to all of us men whether or not we like it. I did a search on extenders & found posts which had to do with the ones that stretch the afflicted area but I didn't see any discussion about the use of actual extensions to be used during sex as a way to enhance your partners pleasure.

Now I realize that technically this has nothing to do with Peyronies Disease & VED's or extenders but it obviously has something to do with what I think we all share in the area of self-esteem & alternatives to our condition. Of course there are numerous (in fact, tons) of web sites that sell these products but I would prefer to trust my fellow sufferers about recommendations & experiences.

I would appreciate any feedback that might be shared on this topic. We all wish & pray for a "magic bullet" that will make our sex lives more satisfying. I am NOT talking about dildos here. But I do wonder what kind of "success" anyone has had by using a penis extension to make up for lost inches.

Thanks.

[newguy]

I followed Tim's advice . Hopefully it won't take long for the Pump to arrive. I'll be sure to keep you guys informed of my progress (or lack of). Out of interest and partly in line with the below post, has anyone combined using a penis extension/stretch device AND a pump over the same time period? A two pronged approach if you will.

[Old Man]

Note to newguy and others:

The following is only my opinion as an older guy who has been "around the Horn" in life to some degree. Penis extensions IMHO belong in the category of "sex toys", but they do have their place in certain circumstances such as: in cases where a man has lost a part of his penis because of some medical malady, physical trauma like an accident or any other trauma in which length was lost. However, in most cases like this a normal climax and orgasm is most likely impossible. But, with the extension, a man can successfully sexually satisfy his partner. This allows the partner to have sexual enjoyment even though the man does not have the capability to enjoy his side of the deal, so to speak.

Now, whether or not an extension used in conjunction with a VED can or will produce successful sexual relations and enjoyment, that would be based on each individual case. Not knowing the full circumstances in any case, using both IMHO would be up to each person based on their case. I am not aware of anyone who has posted with regard to using a VED and an extension at the same time.

Others on the forum may had experience with regard to this subject.

Old Man

[Hawk]

I have no experience on this topic but I am very skeptical about how satisfying this would be to a woman.  First I think it would not feel real, secondly I think that a woman would feel a bit unsatisfied know a her mate could not feel or enjoy her.  My guess is that there are many other forms of sexual touch and interaction that would be at least as satisfying if not more so than a penis extension, but to each their own.  

[voulezvous]

Thanks for the prompt reply, guys. Your thoughts parallel mine for the most part.

I can't say that I entirely agree that the use of extensions by Peyronies Disease-affected men is not a very real way of releiving much of the psychological issues we face. True enough, there is no way an artificial extension of any real part of our body will create pleasurable sensation for a man. And no extension will help to reduce curvature or change anatomy. Yet, let's face it, the reason so many men continue to ask & seek advice of this site is centered around lost inches. If it is just about our pleasure then any penetration will do.

We continue to write about other ways to satisfy our partner (oral, manual stimulation, etc.). Ideally, these methods can be utilized by both genders. I think that any woman who can accept & understand her man's affliction deserves to be honored with the best lovemaking techniques we can offer. Consenting adults should always be creative in my humble opinion. Again, I do not think that a discussion of dildo options is appropriate (or maybe it is) but there is a lot of hype in the sex toy world about the "naturalness" of the extension choices. I do not trust these sites to tell me the real truth & I certainly don't expect to see any "made for Peyronie's" models advertised. We all know that the use of VED's was looked upon strictly as in the sex toy category a few years ago. Now we have ongoing exchanges about best / worst as well as how to use them.

I hope that there are one or two members here who have tried the extension route & can provide some insights. Dare I even ask - any opinions from women?

[Liam]

With underwire support for Peyronies Disease!  

I just can't help myself

[Tim468]

Wow - what a topic!

Here is my personal take on these topics:

1) There are NO data to guide our choices here regarding any of these things. No one has ever studied these issues in a scientific manner. Therefore, all of this boils down to opinions. However, there are data in the sexual literature that do talk to the use of toys, and the pleasure that they might bring to a couple. Distilled down to a single point, if both members of a couple are so inclined, then they will have fun with those toys. Using toys runs the real risk of damaging the self esteem of those who use them if they are senstive or feeling inadequate (ie "I can't please her any more - I have to use a toy").

2) Extensions do not hold a prominent place in the pantheon of sex toys for a reason. They do not stay on well; most women like to feel their partner inside of them. Sure, having her partner use a  dildo on her can be exciting, different and a thrill - but for intercourse, this is often more about connecting, than it is about a certain feeling physically. With the caveats that they do not work that well, and are more distracting than pleasing for many women, anyone should feel free to use them, no matter how large or straight you are, since they might be fun. I think it is nearly impossible that any man would "have to" use them to please his partner.

3) Extenders are not the same as "extensions". At least here, when we talk about extenders we are talking about traction devices that tug the penis into an allegedly longer and straighter length. It is exciting to me that two studies are ongoing to see if this works, one by Dr. Levine in Chicago, and one allegedly being done by Augusta medical devices with a local urologist (which is much less likely to be published in a peer reviewed journal, based on the track record of the investigators). [This is an error on my part (thanks, Chad!) -  I meant that in Augusta they are doing a trial on the VED - and I am not so sure it is being done well.

4) VEDs probably work, but desparately need to be studied in a more scientific manner. Since we talk about the benefits of them plenty here, I will not reiterate those arguments.

Tim

[voulezvous]

With underwire support for Peyronies Disease!  

I just can't help myself

Maybe you've hit on something! Sounds like a promising venture.

After all, this section is about "other mechanical devices", right?