VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices

[Rico]

Mister Dillion,

No it doesn't, you can click on the picture and see what you get or don't get.....you aren't getting as many sizers for ED, or the unit that helps slip it on plus the extra tubes.....

I think maybe the cost may be cheaper because you don't need insurance for it? They might have a mark up if the insurance companies are footing the bill.....what you are getting is like buying a Osborn standard model(jump in Old Man).... my guest since all pumps are 200 hundred dollars that they are the same pump....

I would call someone over there if interested and just tell them you want to build your own somaerect and aren't using your insurance(if this is the case) if your insurance company is kicking in, then your better off going with the somaerect stf......for three hundred and tax....you have a pretty hot system, with a one year warranty...

Rico

[Old Man]

Mr. Dillon:

Rico is right, the Vitality model has only one cylinder, usually does not carry a life time warranty, nor does it come with all the "accessories" that Rico mentioned. True, the pump might be the same, but for the best overall therapy, the three cylinder model is the best. Using only one cylinder is somewhat like the old Obson Classic and Esteem manual models. They did produce results, but required a different approach and reqimen for the therapy cycles and times, etc.

If you do not have insurance to cover at least a part of the cost, call the company, tell them you do not have insurance and maybe work out a reduction in price. It has worked for several others and it does not hurt to ask. The Somaerect STF does require a prescription, but the company usually helps with that.

Best to you, Old Man

PS: Dr. Tim's VED that he assembled himself has worked great for him and he has the three cylinders too.
See his post below. I am sure that he would be glad to assist you in any way to make your own VED.

[howcanthisbe]

I read this on a website, is this the same as jelqing?

"PC Ligament Stretch - Work yourself up into a semi erect (Tumescent) state. Create a ring around the penis with your thumb and middle finger. Starting at the pelvis side of the shaft, slightly tighten the finger ring and draw it out towards the head (glans penis). This will pull the blood towards the head and make it extremely hard and full. Hold this position for 5 to 10 seconds and while holding the ring just before the head pull slowly and gently away from you as if you're lengthening the shaft. Do 20 reps, each rep with a 5 to 10 second hold for 5 sets. (Don't make the ring too tight, and don't yank or tug)! This exercise will not only stretch the PC ligament over time but it also help to break up fibrosis (binding scar type tissue) inside the spongy cavity that prevents it's full engorgement and expansion with blood."

Is this harmful to try? I figure this could be similiar to VED use?

[ComeBacKid]

Howcanthisbe,

What your describing is jelqing, this is dangerous, all doctors I know of advise against it.  I injured myself doing it years ago, luckily I recovered.  I'd recomend getting a VED, they are safe and you can control the amount of pressure you want... look into them.  Those hand exercises are scams man, don't be a victim.

ComeBackid

[howcanthisbe]

Thanks ComeBackid. How is your VED use going? It seems VED use is the most successful thing on this forum.... im gonna get one Janurary.

[DannyOcean]

Howcanthisbe,

What your describing is jelqing, this is dangerous, all doctors I know of advise against it.  I injured myself doing it years ago, luckily I recovered.  I'd recomend getting a VED, they are safe and you can control the amount of pressure you want... look into them.  Those hand exercises are scams man, don't be a victim.

ComeBackid

I'm not convinced that the manual exercises are something we should write off so quickly.  I've been poking around some other forums where people who do these exercises on a regular basis congregate.  The result (if they are to believed) are pretty astounding.  Of course, it's critically important that these exercises are performed properly (with warm-up, etc.) or injury could definitely result (think of walking into a weight room for the first time and immediately trying to bench 300 lbs. .  But if they are performed properly I wonder what the impact could be for people with Peyronies Disease.  After all, many of the exercises are focused on stretching and getting additional blood flow to the penis.  Based on my understanding of the VED, that's pretty much what it does as well.

I know the general consensus here has been *not* to be jelqs, uli, stretches, etc.  However, I think a good discussion around this could be in order.  I think it's highly possible that these exercises, if performed properly, could be beneficial.  At the same time, I don't have any plans to start them until I get a better understanding of how they work, how they compared to the VED and what the pros and cons might be.

[Tim468]

I agree Danny - the issue is that there is little in the way of a concensus on how to do that in a beneficial way.

Tim

[Liam]

A cut will heal on an average person.  It is a different story for a hemophiliac.

Trauma, whether it be sex related, injection, sports, or jelqing, could initiated the Peyronies Disease process in men who have the "predisposition" (not the best word).

A good case can be made for mechanical stretching.  I would err on the side of caution.  Stretching techniques which place the least stress on the TA seem best.  

[Kimo]

I believe that a degree of manual exercise does help, as it did for me..When i had my first case of peyronies,,i had a plaque the size of a quarter about an inch and a half back from the head of my penis on the top and left side..I used to massage it when in the shower every morning...In the flacid state i would hold the head of my penis with my right hand and pull it out as far as it would go and then with my left hand/ thumb and 2 for fingers massage it with as much pressure as i could stand, squeeze it like i was pinching it and massage it back and forth....Yes it would hurt a little but eventually all my plaque was gone....

I'm still left with scar tissue and slightly bent up , but at least the plaque is gone.....Now my new onset of plaque is recessed back inside and i can'y really massage it, i don't know how i will work on this one...This time i'm not bent like the first go around,,but only have pain when having intercourse....

Anyways, this is just my experience.........

Question,,,,,,has anyone had any kind of stomach upset taking Pentox?

Thanks,,,,,,,,,,,,,,kimo

[DannyOcean]

So I'm going to go out on a limb here with this but it seems that the *only* things that have any proven efficacy (even if it's only anecdotal at this point) in terms of Peyronies Disease are things involving exercise (either manual exercise or VED).  There is no one (that I'm aware of...please correct me if I'm wrong) who has said "I was on Pentox/Arginine/Viagra/whatever and now I've been cured."  Yet, we've had a number of people claim that the VED has either helped or greatly improved the condition.  Now, we have Kimo stating that manual exercise alleviated scar tissue initially.  It seems to me that a lot more constructive debate here would probably be a good thing.  It seems to me that a combination of manual exercise + VED might be very effective.  I definitely don't mean this to sound condescending but it seems we endlessly debate meds and supplements on here and haven't really seemed to explore this dimension of Peyronies Disease recovery at all.

[ComeBacKid]

Hey DannyO,

Its good to see some new faces posting in here.  Debate is always good, something we welcome here.  First off I just want to say that there is at least one documented case from Dr. Lue who had a patient on petnox, the guy was calcified, and the clacification vanished after a period of time.  Presently Dr. Lue is doing a study on pentox with his patients, hopefully we will get access to the final results sometime soon.  There have been no documented studies done on the VED that I know of, other than ones done by Augusta Medical Systems(these are not publicly available so we can't confirm they exist).  Currently Dr. Levine is conducting a study with verapamil injections and the VED.  Danny, I know for a fact there are some forums where people are paid to come online and say they did manual exercises and they worked(these are mainly on sites you have to pay to access in case you are secretly doing this).  Remember we are stretching a tunica that is contracted and has plaque, I'd seriously question people on other forums who claim they are doing manual or mechanical techniques on a penis that does not have peyronies disease, I don't believe you can stretch corpus Cavernosum tissue.  There are studies that show holding skin in a stretched fashion for a long period of time encourages new cells to grow, I haven't research this in depth, but I don't think any of the manual jelqing techniques are applying constant pressure for hours at a time, so you can rule that out.  I believe the common story that some of these get rich quick scheme websites throw out is that ancient arabics used to jelq to make their penises bigger, they would pass down the technique from father to son over generations.  I'm a traditional American skeptic, until someone shows me lots of evidence I'm not a believer.  I've had 5 people on this forum(where I trust the intregrity of the people here) tell me they regained lost size and got straightening from some form of a VED, this is enough for me to convince me the VED works.  I have not heard this yet about manual exercises, doesn't mean these people aren't out there, just be careful when you view other forums and websites, especially if there is a financial incentive of some kind.

ComeBackid

[Liam]

Kimo,

I had to cut back on the L-arginine because my stomach as getting upset.  I'm holding steady at 3000 mg three times/day.   Pentox has not caused any problems.

How long did your first case of Peyronies Disease last?  Also, how do you differentiate scar tissue from plaque by palpation?  I am not doubting you, just trying to understand.  I am trying to imagine.  If I were able to pick up the plaque in my hand and mash it between my fingers, how would it feel?

Again I want to play the semantics game.  Jelqing is a term that has earned a questionable connotation.  It also promotes some techniques I find a little dangerous.  Maybe using terms like massaging or physical manipulation would be more accurate (unless you are referring specifically to jelqing).

All over this forum you will find men trying to pinpoint the cause of their Peyronies Disease.  Some postulate physical trauma from sexual activity as the origin while others cite sports trauma, medical trauma and a cast of thousands of traumas.  Now we seem to be saying a little trauma (it hurts) may improve the condition.  I'm not saying it is impossible.  I just don't want to be the one to be a test subject.

I do think it is worthy of discussion.  And, if you must proceed, proceed with caution.  Use common sense.

[Liam]

Please post comments on massage or jelqing under Alternative Treatments.

The posts below were an offshoot of VED discussion.  For a detailed discussion lets move over to a more appropriate topic.

Thanks,
Liam

[Hawk]

Tim,

I am following up on an exchange on another thread.  I am very interested in your reasoning or evidence for rejecting this statement.  

Below is the quote:

This same doctor told me that it has been shown that the VED does absolutely NOTHING to oxygenate the penis because it draws ONLY oxygen depleted venous blood into the penis.

I think that is pure bunk, and not supported by either common sense of a basic understanding of anatomy. I would have loved to have been a patient hearing that - since it makes no sense.

Tim

[Kimo]

LIAM,,,,I didn't get help until about 5 months into being in a lot of pain,,Twisted and bent like a donut i was really scared....Then i was on Topical Verapamil for 5 months and came back to about 85% straight, am slightly bent up now and can have good sex with the wife...My plaque was the size and thickness of a quarter and very hard and really painful when erect...I also started massaging the plaque when in the shower every morning just to see if it would help, after a few weeks i noticed it was breaking up a little at a time and eventually was mostly gone...To me it now just feels like scar tissue, it's kinda hard to explain but their is no hard lumps like before...The way i can describe it, in the begining it started out like a small pea shape and grew to the size of a quarter and then the Topical began softening it up and breaking it up, disolving and then i started massaging it and over time it was all gone....Now it just kinda feels like a stringy tissue where the plaque once was, enough that it will not let me go back all the way straight.....

When i say massaging, i mean,,,,with my right hand i would pull the head of my penis out as far as i could stetch it in the flacid state and with my thumb and 2 fore fingers on my left hand i would pinch the plaque area and massage it back and forth for a minute or so....I did this everymorning for quite a few months and one day i noticed that my plaque was almost all gone and eventually i didn't have any more pain in that area......

I hope i explained this good enough for you, if you have anymore questions please feel free to ask or e-mail me as my e-mail address is posted ......Kimo      

Kimo,

I had to cut back on the L-arginine because my stomach as getting upset.  I'm holding steady at 3000 mg three times/day.   Pentox has not caused any problems.

How long did your first case of Peyronies Disease last?  Also, how do you differentiate scar tissue from plaque by palpation?  I am not doubting you, just trying to understand.  I am trying to imagine.  If I were able to pick up the plaque in my hand and mash it between my fingers, how would it feel?

Again I want to play the semantics game.  Jelqing is a term that has earned a questionable connotation.  It also promotes some techniques I find a little dangerous.  Maybe using terms like massaging or physical manipulation would be more accurate (unless you are referring specifically to jelqing).

All over this forum you will find men trying to pinpoint the cause of their Peyronies Disease.  Some postulate physical trauma from sexual activity as the origin while others cite sports trauma, medical trauma and a cast of thousands of traumas.  Now we seem to be saying a little trauma (it hurts) may improve the condition.  I'm not saying it is impossible.  I just don't want to be the one to be a test subject.

I do think it is worthy of discussion.  And, if you must proceed, proceed with caution.  Use common sense.

[DannyOcean]

With all due respect Liam, I'm not sure I entirely understand the rationale of moving this over to Alternative Treatments.  In addition to strictly manual exercises there are devices that serve to stretch or simulate jelqing that many people use.  The only difference is that it's a device rather than using one's hands and yet does that mean questions regarding those would go here but manual exercises would not.  I also think a helpful debate would be how the VED operates vs. how exercises like jelqing work.  But it will be hard to have that debate if we have to split it up over two separate forums.

Again, I'll defer to your wisdom on this one but it seems to me at least that "exercise" of any sort whether done with an instrument like the VED or a traction device or done manually should all go in the same category.

[hopeful]

Kimo--- This is Hopeful- are you saying that you had a positive result with Verapamil creme?- I wouldl ike to know how old you are- how long you have had Peyronies Disease, etc--What other protocls are you following- I would like to know- I am 58- have had Peyronies Disease for 14 months now- 35% upward curve at tip of penis- looks like Capt Hook Dick- when I am able to get some kind of errection??- Are you using any other topical cremes- taking supplements, excersise, etc.. Please let me knopw- and who was your doctor???

Hopeful

LIAM,,,,I didn't get help until about 5 months into being in a lot of pain,,Twisted and bent like a donut i was really scared....Then i was on Topical Verapamil for 5 months and came back to about 85% straight, am slightly bent up now and can have good sex with the wife...

[Kimo]

Hopeful,,yes i had a very positive result with the Topical Verapamil cream..I know that most people don't believe me but it did work for me...I am 61yrs now, i got peyronies with my first dose of viagra,It happened back in Jan of 2000, so it's been 7 yrs now,,it's not the viagra's fault because i remember injuring myself long before when having rough sex, had pulled out and didn't go back in the right way and bent it and it popped, it hurt but a guy dosen't think much about it at the time and just keeps going....When i had my first dose of viagra and it gave me such a rock hard erection i knew something was happening and a few days later i had a small lump the size of a pea and it started becoming very painful from there on .....5 months had passed before i got started using the topical, and then 5 more months  before coming back to about 85% straight......I also was taking a natural vita-E / 800iu a day and then later began doing the massaging of the plaque.....Also i will tell you that i never stopped using the viagra as i do believe it really helped to continually stretch the plaque and i continue to use it.....But now at my age i have cut down on how much i use as i don't need as much ,,,,,I was always using a 100mg and now i use only 50mg....I am still a little bent upwards , but thats ok as it hits the right spot even better,ha......Hope this info helpa ya,,Let me know if i can help any more,,,,,Kimo    PS, hopeful i forgot to mention the URO i went to i believe is now retired as he was a lot older than i am,,,,I live near Spokane , wa....    

Kimo--- This is Hopeful- are you saying that you had a positive result with Verapamil creme?- I wouldl ike to know how old you are- how long you have had Peyronies Disease, etc--What other protocls are you following- I would like to know- I am 58- have had Peyronies Disease for 14 months now- 35% upward curve at tip of penis- looks like Capt Hook Dick- when I am able to get some kind of errection??- Are you using any other topical cremes- taking supplements, excersise, etc.. Please let me knopw- and who was your doctor???

Hopeful

LIAM,,,,I didn't get help until about 5 months into being in a lot of pain,,Twisted and bent like a donut i was really scared....Then i was on Topical Verapamil for 5 months and came back to about 85% straight, am slightly bent up now and can have good sex with the wife...

[Tim468]

Hawk, I wrote extensively about why I think that about the "venous flow with VED" theory before, so will be brief (it w as  a few months ago now).

Blood comes to distal organs via arteries. The penis is not exception. It returns to the heart via veins, in a low pressure system. To prevent backflow, there are valves that keep blolod from flowing backwards. The valves can be overcome or destroyed - hence varicose veins. But usually, this is not the case.

So, if we apply pressure to the penis, the blood stops exiting it for a different reason than an erection. In an erection, as blood flow increases and the corpora swell, a stretch is applied to the TA. The veins exiting the corpora through the TA are thus "pinned" shut because of the unique structure of the TA. This allows the blood to be further trapped in the corpora, and makes it all harder. The orgasm leads to less inflow, and a dilation of the exiting veins, relaxing the tension, and thus allowing the mechanical outflow of blood to occur.

With a VED, instead of increased arterial inflow, there is less outflow as an initial event. The vacuum prevents the blood from leaving the entire penis and flowing towards the heart.There is no reason to believe that the venous return is compromised such that there is backflow into the corpora through the veins. There are even data I have read that demonstrate inflow through the artery during VED application.

Thus, I see no rational reason for making that statement. It is just flat out wrong, IMO. And it is wrong to make assumptions about the oxygen content of that blood unless one measures it. But if we are doing a pump and release protocol as most of us do, then fresh arterial blood, and a loss of "blue blood" (for at least MY penis gets smaller when I let go of the pressure) demonstrates venous outflow.

Tim

[Rico]

Does anyone know anyone who has started VED treatment several months after trauma to there unit? Old man, I know I asked you on this before, but what has been your experience helping people with peyronies and you also Angus...I know there is confusing information on other sites saying to wait 12 to 18 months and some say early the better.....would say three to four months or once pain subsides??

Rico

[Steve]

Rico,

You asked about starting VED...I started about 12 months after the initial injury that was the start of my Peyronies.  I'd been on TV for 14 weeks, and had just received my 9th VI when I started my VED (a total of 37 weeks after my initial treatment with TV started).  Basically, the VED was my idea based on Old Man's and other's stories here on the forum.  As the injections didn't seem to be doing anything beneficial, I asked my Uro for the Rx for the Soma Correct based on what I'd been reading, and he didn't hesitate to fill out the prescription.  I'm now way past the 12th injection, and after a few re-starts on the 26 week protocol due to heavy bruising from the last injections, I'm up to week 24 of the protocol.

I wish I could say that I've seen an improvement, but so far, I haven't  .  I've described my particulars to Old Man, and he was of the opinion that it could take longer than 26 weeks for me, so I'm planning on sticking with the VED for a while.  I'll probably go back to alternating between the cylinders after the offical 26 week point (the last few weeks are only with the largest cylinder).  If (or when ) I begin to see positive results, you guys will be among the first to hear it.

[Hawk]

Tim,

I kind of like that explanation and must have missed it if you posted it before, because I would have remembered.

After the doctor's statement to me I thought about it and concluded he must have evidence to say "the VED has been shown not to do anything to oxygenate the penis"".  As I thought about it, I figured that since the arteries were not dilated as during a normal erection, that the blood would flow back through the larger veins but you make several good points.  

In addition, I have a vacurect VED that is great for ED.  It essentially has a band (more like a flat washer) around the penis before you even begin to pump.  As you begin to expand, the ring would further tend to block the veins as you are still pumping since they are near the surface.  That may even further reduce any chance of venous blood back-flow although your post indicates it is unlikely to be an issue to start with.

Thanks for the reply

[howcanthisbe]

so a VED doesnt increase blood flow to penis? Im confused as I thought VED's increase blood flow to penis. Does it just stretch the skin?

[Liam]

Blood moving into the penis causes rigidity.  The question is whether oxygenated blood (arterial) or oxygen reduced blood (venous) is causing the erection.

[Mister Dillon]

Here is a second months update on my progress with the VED.  I think those of you who are veterans of this site may has suspected that my first months update was a bit too good to be true.  The biggest problem we have in charting progress is getting good measurements when we are not in a controlled clinical setting.  The measurements we get are very subject to the amount of firmness when we measure the degree of curve.  I have learned a lot about this in the last month trying to get it right.  My improvement last month was not as great as I had believed (I thought that I had improved from 70 degree upward bend to less then 60 degrees).  I now think that in the two months I have had improvement but from what I can measure now, it is only about 5 degrees total.  I am sorry if I misled anyone because it was not intentional, but I feel I need to set the record straight now that I know the truth.  I am still happy with the VED and I know that it is a slow and long process.  I am happy for the improvement I have received and intend to stick with it to the end.

One interesting thing I have discovered, which is not what I expected, is that when I get full firmness using the VED, the degree of curve is only about 45 degrees.  When I measure without the VED and thus not as large or fully erect, I am at about 65 degrees.  I had always thought that the harder you were the more bend you would see on your penis but the opposite seems to be the case, at least for me.  Does that make sense to anyone on this forum?


Mister Dillon

[Hawk]

I apologize for posting something this vague but i am hoping it rings a bell with someone.  I recall over a year ago reading (who knows where) a urologist that was discounting the VED for Peyronies Disease.  As I recall the urologist indicated that the VED can make dents, curves, or loss of girth look improved because they either are , or may, be actually engorging some tissue between the cavernosa and the skin.  In other words a natural erection fills the cavernosa.  A VED erection fills the cavernosa and may gorge capillaries and tissue that are over laying the tunica with blood or fluid that fills in dents, curves, and expands girth.

I must emphasise that I am not advancing this belief.  I may not have even stated it accurately.  I think I know who made the statement but since I am not positive i do not want to attribute it to a specific individual.

While I don't recall the specifics, I do recall that at the time I was left to wondered if the the writer was speculating in order to explain away any perceived improvements from the VED.

I saw one person post that said after pumping up then letting it go part way down that they seem bigger and less deformed with a 3/4 erect VED erection than they do with a rigid natural erection.

[Tim468]

There was a comment in a review of Peyronies Disease by someone - maybe Levine, that stated that "some" claim that the apparent improvements from the VED may be due to edema filling in defects.

Thus, if one developed an edema of the skin over a curve, it would smooth it out. However, I think that close exam would show that the angle was the same. The edema might make a 45 degree piece of angle iron look like a banana. But if you look at the angulation of the distal end and the proximal end, it should still make a 45 degree curve overall.

Another analogy would be a right turn on a street versus a curve. If you start out going North and end up headed East, then you have made a ninety degree turn whether the turn was smooth or sharp. I would like to think that we are smart enough to figure that out, and in general I firmly believe we are. We are also human and make errors. Five degrees is nothing - anyone could measure and disagree over a few degrees.

It is clear that the VED has helped some folks. It is less clear that the protocol is responsible for that, but it is sure a fine starting point.

Tim

[Hawk]

Like you, while I could see the possibility of dents being temporarily filled, or a curve being widened, it is clear the the angle is either improved or it is not.

[ComeBacKid]

I agree with Tim, 5 degrees means nothing.  I've noticed on my own erection in which I have a 45 degree curve when semi erect, which straightens out as it becomes more erect, that some days when semi erect my penis is a solid 45 degree angle, while other times its more like 25 degrees, this makes me wonder if it is getting better, then the next day its back at 45 degrees again. The angle is never consistently the same for me ever.  I think with the VED's the key thing to measure is size.  If you want to measure this by placing a mark on the tube as hawk has suggested this is fine, but I think its best to measure size, hours after you are done pumping.  So far instance you pump in the morning at 10am.  Go take a shower, clean off all the lube, than at night before you are ready to go to bed, measure the flaccid size at least and the erect size if you want.  This will prevent any false readings, where as if you measure right after your done pumping, your penis is artificially inflated and will be bigger.  

[Hawk]

ComeBackid, I see NO value in measuring flaccid size.  First it raises the question of "How Flaccid?".  Next, wouldn't one erection vary from another based on stimulation, mood, distraction?  All these are affected by your own concentration on a clinical self-exam and even the act of measuring which I never found to be sexually stimulating (well maybe when I was 17).  Finally do you follow the curve or measure in a straight line as the crow flies?  How firmly do you press the end of the tape or ruler against your body?  

Every one of these variables are removed if measured against the inside of the VED during a full comfortable pump.  This will tell you if tissue is stretching or increasing, regardless of what you get either flacid or erect outside of the pump.

From there the task is to find ways to get solid erections wich will utilize the most from your existing size.

[Mister Dillon]

I do not measure size since I have not noticed much lost size, but I have a slight hour glass effect on the shaft just before the head.  My greatest concern is the large curve that I developed at over 70 degrees before my VED treatment.  Therefore I have always been concerned in measuring any change in the angle of that curve.  I was pleasantly surprised that the angle is about 20 to 25 degrees less when fully erect using the VED.  I take the measurement outside of the VED because at a 40 to 45 degree bend it would hit the side of the tube and give a false measurement.  I use one of the tension rings that come with the Soma for ED to keep the erection full outside of the VED.   I will use this method from now on when I report on my progress in the future.  I think it takes most of the errors out of the measurements and is the closest to the injections used in a clinical setting.   I do not attempt this too many times because I want to be careful not to add further injury to my penis.  The snapping down of the tension ring on the penis concerns me a bit but so far has not done any damage.  I am sure that the curve is much improved and not due to anything about blood filling in the gaps --- It is pointing much more up and out and not towards my stomach when fully erect.  

Mister Dillon

[ComeBacKid]

I find value in measuring the flaccid size, its a way to measure progress.  I would recomend doing it at the same time of day everytime you do it, and at room tempature, I wear boxers and take them off and measure right away, if you are wearing tighties this could effect your size, so you might want to leave them off for a minute or so.  I mean yeah, don't come in out of the cold and measure, or measure out of the shower.  The proper way to measure(if there is one) is to put the ruler on the top of your penis, I don't push the ruler into my body I put it right were the base starts, although currently it may be easier for me to measure since I'm shaving almost to the skin as I use the ved.  Anytime I do measure I try hard to replicate the same scenario and do it exactly the same way. I wouldn't recomend measuring weekly or even monthly.  I'm now on week 19 of using the VED, I measured before I started and still have not done a follow up measurment, I will when I complete the protocol.  

As far as the curve, this is very difficult to measure for me, cause if I"m semi erect it is 45 degrees give or take 5-10 degrees, and as I become more stimulated and more blood flows in, my penis actually straightens out pretty well.  I believe that most people seem to have a constant bend, whether semi erect or totally erect, I do not have this.  One could easily mistake a curve measurment for + or - 5 degrees easily.

There is no easy way to measure, the key is to be consistent everytime you do so and do the best you can, this is all we can do.  Generally one can tell if their penis is hanging bigger, or if there getting straighter, I know I can.

ComeBackid

[Hawk]

ComeBackid,

I dispute that flaccid measurement reveals one single thing about progress.  Flaccid size is effected by temperature, mood, natural body cycles, whether you have been sitting or standing, the clothes you were wearing, activity, and a dozen other factors.  It changes by the minute.  It does not reveal curve.  It does not relate to erect size in any way.  it simply records how you hang at that moment in time.

the very fact that you say

I try hard to replicate the same scenario and do it exactly the same way

indicates that it cannot be used as an indicator.  You cannot assure your mood is the same, your body cycles, or many of the other factors.  There is no such thing in reality as a flaccid or erect penis.  There are in fact a million degrees along a continuum from one extreme state to the other.  To think you can catch it at the same place on the continuum is very unrealistic.

if you said you stretched your flaccid penis to its natural limit and measured it while stretched, that would at least reflect some degree of accuracy.

[JAKE52]

I am brand new to this forum. First, my thanks to the sponsors and my fellow "victims" for sharing information, and thank you to all who read this long first posting and respond. I promise to be brief in the future with my questions and thorough with anything of value I have to share.

I am willing to DO ANYTHING that anyone has had even moderate success with and that had minimal risk for further harm. Thus I am posting this prologue in two subject areas since I am asking two separate questions at the end.

My situation is not much different from most I have read about here and countless other places on the web.  Even though I realize I will never have back my former penis, I am willing to try ANYTHING that ANYONE has had ANY degree of success with.  I have been to seven urologists from coast to coast to coast, six of whom promote themselves as Peyronies Disease specialists, even at major University research hospitals. And I have had no two recommend the same thing (except that MAYBE Colchicine and vitamin E MIGHT help, but there is no proof), other than the prognosis is not good, and a return to original size and function will not happen.  Only one MD (the urologist with the fewest published credentials) urged swift and aggressive treatment (Verapamil AND Intron A injections PLUS Colchicine PLUS vacuum pumping) during the early stages when I just had a painful bend. All the "experts" urged me to wait six months, then another six months.  The waiting has been disastrous.  After one full year of stead high doses of Vitamin E and up to six tabs of Colchicine daily, my once proud 9.5x6 inches, naturally rock hard, stick straight member has been reduced to a Viagra only reduced 3.5-4 hooked (i.e., slightly curve became a 45 degree dented hook) which is now only useful for solitary masturbation. I am now resolute to take aggressive actions and seek forum members advice.  

1) VEDs: Only one urologist recommended use of a VED, and he suggested I not waste money on expensive devise, but rather buy a good vacuum pump at any adult store.  Yet I have read in this forum strong advocates of medically prescribed devices (SOMA and Vacuret mentioned in postings here) and that if prescribed by MDs, medical insurance might cover the expense.  My questions are:
a) Is anyone "convinced" they have had any permanent improvement (other than OldMan)?
b) Has anyone had any problems?  (when I tried a device, my foreskin expanded freakishly to the size of an inflated blowfish and did not get back to normal for several days)
c) Where does one get such prescriptions filled? The local pharmacy?
d) If not covered my medical insurance, is it really worth the expense versus buying a quality device at a book store?

2) Mechanical traction devices: By now I am sure we have all read the many miraculous cures of the Jez-Extender device out of Denmark. But the only success stories I have read are testimonials included in the many "sales pitches" I've read for this expensive device.  Has any forum member here had any personal experience with this device or any similar ones?

THANK YOU for reading this and your response. ANY and ALL input is welcomed and appreciated.
Jake.

[Angus]

1) VEDs: Only one urologist recommended use of a VED, and he suggested I not waste money on expensive devise, but rather buy a good vacuum pump at any adult store.  Yet I have read in this forum strong advocates of medically prescribed devices (SOMA and Vacuret mentioned in postings here) and that if prescribed by MDs, medical insurance might cover the expense.  My questions are:
a) Is anyone "convinced" they have had any permanent improvement (other than OldMan)?
b) Has anyone had any problems?  (when I tried a device, my foreskin expanded freakishly to the size of an inflated blowfish and did not get back to normal for several days)
c) Where does one get such prescriptions filled? The local pharmacy?
d) If not covered my medical insurance, is it really worth the expense versus buying a quality device at a book store?

1) Please ignore the advice you recieved about buying a VED at a bookstore-adult toy store. The seals are inadequate and the wrong size and will not work for the specific therapy described in this thread.

a) I am convinced. My home constructed VED's helped reduce a 45 degree curve to 10 degrees.
b) What you describe sounds like vacuum-induced edema of the foreskin. Too much vacuum and/or holding the vacuum too long will cause this swelling. With the VED, less is more when it comes to vacuum.
c) I made my own VED's in my shop but there are other individuals on the board here who can help. There is also much discussion earlier in this thread about how to fill a VED prescription, and much discussion on VED choices.
d) YES it is worth the expense and trouble. This thread describes how we believe a VED works for us; the bookstore VED's are more or less in the toy category with inadequate seals and sometimes shoddy construction. Trust me when I say all VED's are NOT equal. Resources are listed in this thread where pumps, tubes and materials can be purchased in order to assemble or construct a VED on a budget. There is much advice available from members and this thread, and I'm sure some others will jump in and add their reply to your questions.

  Welcome to the board, Jake52. You've come to the right place!

[ComeBacKid]

Hawk,

I don't agree with you on this one man.  Yeah the flaccid penis flucuates in size, whether its cold or warm, or whether i just got done running.  But if I'm here sitting at my computer, its always the same size when I get up, I know caused I measured compulsively for 2 months straight during the summer when the disease was taking a toll on me mentally.  Perhaps other people's penises change size more often than mine, I don't know, mine is the same everytime.  You make it sound like there are 1-500 possible sizes for the flaccid penis and that it could be at any one of those 500 points during the day, this is definately not the case for me.  Even doctors have measured size of the flaccid penis effectively in studies, they have not follow this same line of thinking to discredit measuring of the flaccid penis. Currently I can tell from using the ved for 19 weeks just by the feel of when I walk around that my penis is hanging bigger throughout the whole day than it was before.  It feels bigger when I feel it, and I can tell by the feeling in my pants, this is without doing any measuring a very non-exact way to measure progress.  When I get to measuring with a ruler I will get an even more exact update in my opinion.  I guess the real question is what is progress?  To me I lost a lot of size in the flaccid and erect states, but it particularly bothered me in the flaccid state, cause my penis felt so little.  So by gaining the fullness feeling I have gained so far it has equated to great progress for me and completely changed my outlook on life and this disease.  I think you are thinking of progress in turns of the curve, this is not as important to me as size.  My situation seems to be very unique to what is described on here, Tim has said he has a similar "cast" feeling all over his penis like I do. Dr. Mulhall told me hes never see anyone with the symptons I described, and he checks out about 20 people per week with peyronies.  I'm going to continue to pump as I can tell it is helping me, and post a progress report soon with more detailed information.  It will be interesting to see how Dr. Levine tracks progress as part of his ongoing studying using the ved, and if flaccid size is measured or not.

ComeBackid

[Hawk]

Well you hit the nail on the head.  If flaccid size is your goal then I stand corrected.  Measurement in the flaccid state may have some value.  I could not care less how big my flaccid size is (or barely care less).  My concern is the functional state of my penis (size, firmness, shape when erect).

I will bet the farm Dr. Levine will not measure flaccid penis size unless he does so stretched to full natural length.

[ComeBacKid]

Hawk,

I'd be willing to bet you that Dr. Levine will either measure flaccid size or erect size, or both. I would be shocked if he doesn't track curve reduction AND size, since so many people claim that the VED will help you gain back size, and produce these claims from their own measurements.  We should know the results farily soon, if he is following the 6 month protocol of the soma correct his study should conclude in december.  How long it will take him to publish a report is another question.

ComeBackid

[Hawk]

Hawk,

I'd be willing to bet you that Dr. Levine will either measure flaccid size or erect size, or both.

I don't think anyone could argue with that statement.  Since there is nothing left out unless he does not measure.

If a doctor had the nerve to face me and say "Well we have had some real success in treatment.  Your flaccid size has doubled but your erection is the same."  He had better be ready to duck.

[Old Man]

Note about penis size:

Guys, IMHO, I could not care less about flaccid size. My main concern is that I have a tool that is straight enough to penetrate and that it is big/long enough to satisfy my partner.

Too much emphasis has been placed on penis size for so long that it seems to have become an obsession with all males. Flaccid size changes according to so many variables, that it seems to me that it would be impossible to make an accurate measurement at any two different times. Even when going for a penile implant, the surgeon uses a mechanical device to make the accurate measurements to insure that the implant size is correct to the best of his ability. He stretches the penis to its fullest length and then develops the right implant size for the job at hand.

So there I have said it for what its worth to anyone who cares!

Old Man

[ComeBacKid]

Hawk,

As I have previously stated my situation is different than most so I would welcome and cherish a flaccid size gain with no gain in erect size, although i believe the ved will help gain size in both states.

"If a doctor had the nerve to face me and say "Well we have had some real success in treatment.  Your flaccid size has doubled but your erection is the same."  He had better be ready to duck."

Your opinion might change if you were in my shoes, that being your erect size was average, and your flaccid size was below average by a lot, hence just gaining size back in the flaccid state would cheer yup and be considered a success, even if you didn't gain any size back in the erect state.  I realize that a lot of people are facing the deformity(curve) issue, but many of us are battling size loss, I'll take any gains I can get in any state to be honest!!!!!

Note to those who continue to PM me asking me how the ved is working for me, since I"m on week 19, no point in posting a progress report now, with only 7 weeks until I finish the protocol, so I will finish out and then post an update for everyone with a more detailed analysis.

ComeBackid

[wantitstr8]

Jake52-

I can't comment too much about the VED since I have used the Soma very infrequently during the course of my treatment.  I am a patient of Dr. Levine and began treatments in March.  So far I have been through 2 courses of VI, about 6 months of Pentox and Arginine, and have used the Fastsize traction device for about 5 months.  So far, curvature has been reduced from about 45 degrees to about 15 degrees, size has returned (before treatment I was about 7 inches and had shrunk to about 5.5 inches...I have regained about 1 inch since treatment began).  I think the traction has played a significant part of the improvement, but I can't really say to what degree.  Dr. Levine seems to think that the VI in combination with the traction has been an important factor in the improvement.  He currently has multiple patients on the traction protocol and he says the initial reports are promising, but, it will take more time to know for sure.  The traction treatment is tedious and requires a lot of patience and persistence to work, but I am encouraged and that helps me stay motivated to strap on the device and endure the discomfort...hope this helps.

[Tim468]

This report of improvement underscores two things to me.

First, we have a LOT to learn about the role of mechanical stretching on recovery from Peyronies Disease (be it via VED or traction).

Second, we need to pay attention to what is helping and how individual we all are. Again and again, I hear stories of something that works for one guy and does not work for another guy.

the urologists come away from that fact with (or so it seems to me) an attitude of "Nothing works reliably" (and by extension, hints at "why bother at all?").

I personally come away with the thought "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again".

Wantitstraight - way to go!

Personally, I would prefer a better erect penis, and could live with a smaller flaccid one. As long as I can pee, it doesn't seem to matter to me what it is like flaccid. It is what it does erect that matters the most. However, I clearly see a connection between how it acts (turtle effect) when flaccid and progression of my Peyronies Disease - so both are important when it comes, finally, to how my Peyronies Disease is progressing (or not).

Tim

[Rico]

wantitstraight8 I just want to say, way to go!!!!

I sent you a pm but you can answer here for all to share also.... I have been on the pentox for about a week, it has played hard on my stomach, especially in the afternoon...do you get use to it?  I have been taking the cilias every 48 hrs @10mg..the night I take the cilias I have such strong erections that they wake me, fully hard, not like before, I would have them at more like 80%..... I could have sex with these, but sleep alone:)... the hinge wouldn't be as much of a problem....I had to back off the VED treatment for a week because two weeks ago had sex and wasn't fully erect at first and the buckling bent, so it made me nervous, was a little sore, but as of now I have no new peyronies..... plan to start back on VED.... did Levine suggest to you to take viagra or cilias also, how much pentox are you taking.... did he give you a choice of traction vs VED..... I always felt VED was better, but I have a hour glass and this sways my thinking also....I was taking the ginkgo and supplements and VED and doing good....I thought I would take it to the next step... got on the pentox/cilias/arginine and have been sick for the last week, just upset stomach and haven't been able to work out as good.... I have a tough gut when it comes to eating spicy food ect... but now I'm eating bland to keep it down with the pentox and other than at night with the cilias, my unit looks not so good.... I know over all health plays a big part, and maybe my body needs to get use to this drug, if anyone else has had this problem with pentox, did it go away?
Thank you and God Bless...

Rico

[Blink]

Rico, I've been using pentox now for about two weeks, as long as I eat I have no stomach problems. I eat a lot of rice and beans and spicy food( I guess I'm a closet beaner). The spice does not seem to bother my gut any differant with the pentox in there. Right now I'm taking trazadone, pentox, arginine and a multivitamin. I am also using the soma. I have seen some improvement as far as my deformities go. Not much, right now, but some. I am encouraged by the results so far. I will keep on doing what I am doing and report back any significant progress. Keep the Faith...Blink

[Rico]

Blink:

How much pentox are you taking? I know you like the trazdone and have used it before, good for blood flow and cheap.... the cialis really kicks in the blood flow at night, like I said, the night I take it 10mg.... I don't know if this makes a lot of difference or not, how much blood, the head and upper area above the plaque really fills out, I would think this is good, before taking this the night time didn't fill out as much... I have taking my large dose of arginine during the afternoon also, this is a time release and you take only once a day, 4000mg..... then taking a snack and pentox also and doing a workout not much later, this might be too much...morning pentox and evening doesn't bother me as much.... but once I get the sour stomach during the day, it effects somewhat the rest of the day.... I know some people only take it twice a day also.... I might opt for this.... my workout is very important to me, especially for my mental state.... I find for my work and lifestyle to workout during my lunch break... I like to work out for a hour and stay and work late.... so I will have to take a step to the left and adjust.... thanks Blink...

[Rico]

Dear forum members and guest:

I'm asking this question to anyone using the VED who has a hour glass problem and if the VED has helped them in anyway or if do to this problem they have done anything different with results.... mine seem to be getting better and then all of sudden after sex and of course a little bending at the hinge, it seemed to go back or where it was or worse....I was filling out the b tube on the soma, now I can see daylight again at the site:(.... I'm wondering if taking the cialis also, for I wake up with these super strong erections, maybe they are for too long of time? I know the hour glass is one of the harder things to fix....any suggestions or experience with this??

Rico

[Steve]

Rico,
I wish I could say that the VED has fixed or reduced my waising, but so far, it hasn't.  I first noticed the waisting during my VI's, and subjectively (how do you go about measuring the waisting effect?) it hasn't improved in the 24+ weeks I've been using the VED.  In fact, now that I'm almost to the end of the 26 week protocol, I haven't seen any improvement in angle (my primary concern) either.  When I hit the 'official' 26 week mark, I'll report to all what I've seen.

[ComeBacKid]

Rico,

I have noticed that if i use the ved on the same day I masterbated that my penis hurt when I went to pump for the day( masterbation came first earlier in the day).  I notice that if I have no masterbation in the day and then pump, it feels nice and I get a good stretch.  I think that using the penis to much before pumping is not good.  I can imagine that if you had sex and then pumped that would not be good, even if there was a gap up to 8 hours, to be honest you shouldn't be having anything close to rough sex at all!  I would try to keep sexual conduct/masterbation to a minimum while on the protocol.  

Steve,

Keep pumping to the end and post a detailed analysis on your 26 week treatment, we need to share all this information and see if we can figure some things out, I will be posting an update in a few weeks, I'm currently on week 19.

ComeBackid

[NewlyDxd]

Hello,

I was dx'd today with Peyronies Disease.  I'm a 23 yo male who went to see the dr after my longtime gf and I decided to start having sex a while ago - she eventually confessed that the shape of my penis (downward curving) sometimes made sex uncomfortable.  

I did a search on Ebay for some VEDs and there are some for about $100, but I can't be sure whether they're legit medical devices or I'm getting scammed - can someone help me out?

Down (literally),
Newlydxd

EDIT:  It's the Encore brand and it's being sold from a medical device store, tho it's "OTC".. it comes with 4 cylinders..