VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices

[newguy]

I know there is a progress thread, but not many people have actually posted in there. Aside from the couple of VED stalwart here, have many other members actually experienced much improvement from the VED in terms of reduced curvature?  I did read that for a few people it reduced pain, and from a common sense point of view for those in early stages it must help and it promotes bloodflow and full erections. For those with a stable condition, I cannot see how it can hurt, and in the cases of a few it has been a revelation. I suppose it's the inconsistency that irks me. Hence, why I think the only true appraoch is one that touches on various bases (oral, exercise, ved, diet, maybe traction*)


*As I had a bad experience with traction, and have since read the same of others, I'm a little wary of it. I honestly do that that it can be of significant help to people, but I also see that there is a lot of publicity behind the method, even amongst those who in the urology community, and I haven't heard a peep about problems, or issue with traction. That doesn't reflect the reality of what I have read from a few people here, and elsewhere on the net.

[LWillisjr]

Les - This pretty much mirrors my view of it. My only other thought was that for those with a semi erect curve, it would probably be an ideal time to begin traction or VED, as if they are able to tip the balance in a meaningful way at this stage, maybe it can make a big difference.

In this case I think traction might be better as I would think that you would want to keep that tissue stretched for a longer period of time. Or at least as long as you can could wear it on a daily basis.

[Starting2looseHope]

So where can i get a VED that is doctor approved. Not a single doctor has mentioned this device yet. Are doctors up to date on it?

[cowboyfood]

Several board members suggested the following:

http://www.fitzz.com/Vitality-Plus-Three-Cylinder-Vacuum-Therapy-System--Recommended-for-Peyronies-Therapy_p_503-1983.html

I checked out the web site last night, and it never asked for a prescription...I'm going to call in my order today.

plus!!  you'll get a nice discount if you put "TEAM" in the promo code section;

the ved plus lube plus discount came out to $210.00

Cowboyfood

[cowboyfood]

also, the board members strongly suggest a manual pump, from what I've read.

[Jackieo]

I, too, was shopping the internet and appreciated your post regarding the FitzzAM1000P Vitality Plus Three.  In fact, I placed an order using the code "TEAM" and gained a $23.00 Discount (thank you!) and free 3-day shipping.  Great news....now I am eagerly awaiting my new friend  .

[cowboyfood]

me too, ved arrives next week, I same shop.

[cowboyfood]

All,

Thanks for the "ton" of information in this thread.  My ved arrives soon.  

What should my expectations be the first several times I use the ved?

From what I gather from the posts,  it will take several times to get the hang of it and get my penis filled, as oppossed to "erect"...which I'm still not totally clear on.

Any comments appreciated.  

Cowboyfood

[jackp]

Cowboyfood

The first thing is not to get in a hurry. Find a quiet place and just relax.

You may find getting a seal difficult at first. Some trim the pubic hair some shave around the penis. Do not buy the expensive gels go to Walmart and buy the store brand for about $2. Works just as well.

Do not expect over night miracles. It took several weeks for me to start gaining back my size.

The most important thing is not to pump to the point of pain or discomfort.

Follow the protocol and you will have good results.

Jackp

[Pete28]

Everytime I get in this VED i come back totally numb and cant get spontaneous erection for 1-2 days.

Now i have performed it two times five minutes and very very MODERATE pressure (without any rushing, pain or real discomfort and with a lot of deflating) in a pump WITH a gauge and again the numbness and weakness after using it.

I think VED works fine for 95% of the guys. But for 5% it doesnt work and is even very potentially dangerous.
If you just happened to have a penis that is really allergic for the pressure, you can get very 'weak' from it and maybe damage the tissue (permanently). Even at very moderate pressure, i am sure as i can feel it.

I think it's something of which everyone should be able to decide to use it or not, but i dont think its responsible that doctors describe it as 'standard therapy'. There is far too little research about the potential side effects.

[Tim468]

Pete,

I had several questions for you.

1) What pressures do you use?
2) How long do you go before releasing the pressure?
3) How much total time have you spent doing this?
4) What do you use for lubricant?
5) Have you had any sort of psychogenic ED before (ie could not get it up under stress at any time)?

If the answers to all those are fairly innocuous, then I would think that you are correct in saying that not all can use the VED. We have had others here before with troubles (though not this specific trouble), but many have been worked out by making adjustments.

A couple of thoughts. If you have a tight or hard edge to the cylinder, it might be cutting in to you at the belly where it comes up against you. It might be trapping or impinging on the nerve at that point. A silicone seal might reduce that and allow you to derive some benefit anyway.

If that were the case, it is also true that a traction device could do the same thing. It might be worth discussing with a urologist who has used the VED for vasculogenic impotence (ie diabetes). In those patients, about 95% can use it successfully (to get a serviceable erection - they are not trying to fix Peyronie's). Presumably for 5% it does not work, although I am not sure what the complaints were that made them give up.

Tim

[Pete28]

Pete,

I had several questions for you.

1) What pressures do you use?

I cannot tell exactly. I cannot see this on the machien. It's an Osbon Erecaid system.

2)How long do you go before releasing the pressure?

three - four max five pumps

3) How much total time have you spent doing this?

In total: 1 hour. But the first time i had two sessions of half an hour, with pauze in between.

4) What do you use for lubricant?

A tube that was packed with the VED

5) Have you had any sort of psychogenic ED before (ie could not get it up under stress at any time)?

Probably every guy has somewhere in his life ... So this could well be the case.

If that were the case, it is also true that a traction device could do the same thing. It might be worth discussing with a urologist who has used the VED for vasculogenic impotence (ie diabetes). In those patients, about 95% can use it successfully (to get a serviceable erection - they are not trying to fix Peyronie's). Presumably for 5% it does not work, although I am not sure what the complaints were that made them give up.

Talking about vasculogenic impotence. If you can no longer can have sponteneous erection, of course the VED is great stuff. But think of this: you can have spontaneous erections and for example have minor nerve damage or venous leak. If you put pressure on the already not well functioning nerves or veins, it's not unlogical this could make matters a lot worse. I've received my VED presciption without total examination of my penis.
I've also read somewhere a guy who fell of a roof used the VED for his 100% ED (no commercial site) who discouraged to use a VED unless you have 100% ED, because the VED can actually aggrevate minor venous leak that was already there (injury to an injury). With other words: a guy who doesnt need a confidence ring can become a guy who needs one after using a VED;  

[Tim468]

Well Pete,

Don't know what to say. Your negative results are certainly outside of the norm. If you are concerned, then stop using it. That's a bummer for you because it has helped so many other men.

Tim

[nemo]

Pete's notion that VED usage could make venous leakage worse is a new one on me.  Is that supported or even broached by any medical literature or professional opinion?  Pete, where are you getting that from?

Nemo

[newguy]

Well Pete,

Don't know what to say. Your negative results are certainly outside of the norm. If you are concerned, then stop using it. That's a bummer for you because it has helped so many other men.

Tim

Me too. I honestly think that traction can occasionally be dangerous, even is a seemingly safe setting, and maybe the same is true of VED therapy. My suspicion though is that use of the VED is generally safer and it's an easier process to control and measure. The odd individual may well not be suitable, as we are all different, but it's certainly worth a try by all, so nobody should feel that this is a dead end. Give it a go, and see how you feel. For those who don't take to it, maybe light traction is suitable as well as oral treatments and exercise. There is no easy answer to peyronie's, but we all all in a position where we can be proactive and be sure that we are trying our best we can to control this condition. The beauty of this community is that we are surrounded by people with success stories via various options (oral treatments, VED, traction, surgery) and people that truly understand what we are all going through. Don't lose hope.

[Angus]

  This thread has covered VED use for years with many posts by many individuals about how to use the VED, how not to use the VED, and the results of same. The bottom line is each individual must make a decision to use the VED or not, and if he uses one, to choose one of the VED's recommended for years in this thread and to use it responsibly and follow guidelines posted here. In the end, each man uses the VED the way he sees fit, whether based on recommendations made here or not. Each mans sensation is based on his method. The methods described by so many individuals here who have used the VED for years do not cause pain, fractures or damage. Many posters appear to have theories about what a VED may cause in the way of damage and one must take those as theories and speculation, not fact. If a man reads something somewhere that claims damage caused by a VED, then this is what you have: something someone read somewhere with no basis of fact or proof. The record here posted by users who have used the VED for years without further damage speaks for itself. If one is unable for whatever reason to maintain the disciplines necessary for responsible VED use for Peyronies, then he should probably try other methods of Peyronies treatment.  

[Old Man]

Note to all:

AMEN TO ANGUS' POST ONE THOUSAND TIMES!!!!

Old Man

[newguy]

On a related note, the pain I had been experiencing appears to be much improved of late. In an attempt to limit any additional scarring coming my way, I'm tentatively setting a date of June 1st for starting VED treatment again. It was something I took to well previously, and as such, I'm eager to see what progress I can make if I stick to a routine for a year or so.

[double eagle]

Just passed the 13th week, a little over half way through the FIRST therapy session. Since my humongous change in curvature, nothing has happened.

The quality of my erections has gotten better and sexual activity has become fun again, embarrassment has begun to wear off and I am becoming confident in becoming sexually active with new partners.

Up to this point, the VED has been my savior, but it is the only remedy/therapy I used. I am quite satisfied with the results up to this point. The VED is simply great, for me!

[Pete28]

Pete's notion that VED usage could make venous leakage worse is a new one on me.  Is that supported or even broached by any medical literature or professional opinion?  Pete, where are you getting that from?

Nemo

That's the problem. There is no medical literature. In contrast to centrain drugs, the possible side effects have never been tested.

[Tim468]

Pete,

Let us know if you find a way to get the VED to work for you. If impossible, then I hope that other means work instead, like Pentox, etc.

Tim

[Pete28]

Pete,

Let us know if you find a way to get the VED to work for you. If impossible, then I hope that other means work instead, like Pentox, etc.

Tim

My concern: since i have used the VED for the first time, a month ago, my erection has been weakenend, although the ED problems were there before the VED (otherwise i wouldnt have used it). I used it half an hour and a couple of hours later again twenty minutes (bacause i felt i hadnt done it properly the first time and i thought in the meanwhile my body shoud have recuperated). The doc said 'every day half an hour', so i thought 'ah a couple of pumps more can do no harm.' Before using the VED, i still had some erectile 'reserve'. Now i can get fully hard, but it's only just before the 'finish'.
Could this mean permanent damage?

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/ode/guidance/1231.html
The fda warns to not use a penis pump when one has less sensation due to nerve problems, which i have. But didn't know that at the moment of pumping.

I also found back this post a couple of years ago within this thread:

tdsc
Voting Member

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Posts: 48


   Re: Tim - VED
« Reply #830 on: March 13, 2007, 03:01:27 PM » Quote  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasn't targeting anyone.  George was saying the VED is legitimate, whereas I'm of a different opinion.  The ved pulls blood into the penis artificially.  How do you know that it's not pulling on things inside that may mess things up?  I saw on a website a doctor who used the thing because he wanted to just experiment with it (he had not injury) just twice on himself, and he said it permanently weakened his erection, and that was a common thing he knew about others.   If the penis is injured a rock hard erection is probably not the best thing.  During periods when the injury was aggravated my nightly erections were not as strong for a few weeks, but they returned to normal after cessation of whatever was aggravating it.  

[jackp]

Pete28

"The doc said 'every day half an hour', so i thought 'ah a couple of pumps more can do no harm.' "

From my prospective and experience you are over pumping. When you first start your sessions should not exceed 10 minutes and work up to 15 minutes.  I did something like you are doing at first and caused a bruise that took weeks to heal.

IMHO progressive loss of erections is not from VED therapy but more than likely progressive venous leakage and/or corporal fibrosis. I know some argue that venous leakage is not progressive but it is. You could also have some heart and/or blood vessel problems.

Jackp

[jfl]

I have had Peyronies Disease for about one year now.    I am getting quite a bit of penis shrinkage and a backward bend.  I can still have sex normally but it is getting harder to do.   I have recently tired the VED and the last session I must have pumped to hard as the head of my penis is burning.   it is over 16 hours and no let up in the pain.     Anyone have any idea how long it will take for the pain to subside.
My major concern is " did I do any permanent damage ?    

[newguy]

jfl - Welcome to the forum. In your shoes, I'd take iboprofen for the next few days. If it doesn't let up, then I'd get it checked out. 16 hours is much too early to be able to say anything with any certainty, other than that it's imperative not to pump to a point where you experience pain. It's a marathon not a sprint, and being too 'gungho' is a real mistake.
Are you taking any oral treatments? A multi pronged approach to peyronie's may serve you well.

[Mick]

Newguy's advice is good. To answer your question, it is unlikely that you have done permanent damage, but take it very easy until you get the hang of the VED.

[cowboyfood]

all,

I belive I'm the latest member (publicly) of the ved club; my fitzz vitality ved arrived today, 3 cylinder deal

Unless, Jackieo's arrived before mine.  But, I'm thinking he would have posted the good news by now if he had.

but, I'm thinking, no way that small cylinder is going to work!  It looks too small, but maybe it's supposed to fit extremely tight??

Old Man, thanks for your offer to help...I'll pm you soon.

CF

[newguy]

To assess the efficacy of vacuum constriction devices (VCD) following radical prostatectomy (RP) and determine whether early use of VCD facilitates early sexual activity and potentially earlier return of erectile function. This prospective study consisted of 109 patients who underwent nerve-sparing (NS) or non-nerve-sparing (NNS) RP between August 1999 and October 2001 and developed erectile dysfunction following surgery. The patients were randomized to VCD use daily for 9 months (Group 1, N=74) or observation without any erectogenic treatment (Group 2, N=35). Treatment efficacy was analyzed by responses to the Sexual Health Inventory of Men (SHIM) (abridged 5-item International Index of Erectile Function (IIEF-5)), which were stratified by the NS status. Patient outcome regarding compliance, change in penile length, return of natural erection, and ability for vaginal intercourse were also assessed. The mean patient age was 58.2 years, and the minimum follow-up was 9 months. Use of VCD began at an average of 3.9 weeks after RP. In Group 1, 80% (60/74) successfully used their VCD with a constriction ring for vaginal intercourse at a frequency of twice/week with an overall spousal satisfaction rate of 55% (33/60). In all, 19 of these 60 patients (32%) reported return of natural erections at 9 months, with 10/60 (17%) having erections sufficient for vaginal intercourse. The abridged IIEF-5 score significantly increased after VCD use in both the NS and NNS groups. After a mean use of 3 months, 14/74 (18%) discontinued treatment. In Group 2, 37% (13/35) of patients regained spontaneous erections at a minimum follow-up of 9 months after surgery. However, only four of these patients (29%) had erections sufficient for successful vaginal intercourse and rest of patients (71%) sought adjuvant treatment. Of the 60 successful users, 14 (23%) reported a decrease in penile length and circumference at 9 months (range, 4-8 months) compared to 12/14 (85%) among the nonresponders. However, in control group (Group 2) 22/35 reported decrease in penile length and circumference. Early use of VCD following RP facilitates early sexual intercourse, early patient/spousal sexual satisfaction, and potentially an earlier return of natural erections sufficient for vaginal penetration.

- http://www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/16107868 (this study is a few years old. Apologies if it has already been posted).

Of course the situation above does not exactly match our own, but it does at least provide further confirmation that in some circumstances, the VED can be used to retain length + even help with natural erections and as such is a good option for patients following surgery and those diagnosed with peyronies (as long as it doesn't worsen pain). It also goes without saying that it's one of the best options for those with long established and stable peyronie's too. Of course in this study, the lack of erections may have been the primary factor for loss in size, but many peyronies sufferers experience ED too, so to me the VED is still something that continues to show benefit as it provides a very full erection.

[Fred22]

Double Eagle,

You mentioned in your last post that you had a "humongous" reduction in your curvature.  I could not find the post where you stated the change but di read one reply that mentioned going from a 90 degree curvature to 10 degrees in 6 weeks.  Is that accurate?

Fred

[LWillisjr]

Of course the situation above does not exactly match our own, but it does at least provide further confirmation that in some circumstances, the VED can be used to retain length + even help with natural erections and as such is a good option for patients following surgery and those diagnosed with peyronies (as long as it doesn't worsen pain).

Newguy,
I agree except that I would not recommend using the VED immediately after surgery. It would depend on the surgery and there may be some time required for healing of the surgical site required before starting the VED. This is something I would recommend anyone discuss with their surgeon before starting it.

[newguy]

Yes, certainly. It was more the concept that I was trying to state really. The "use it or lose it" side of things. Those in the study began use at around a month after surgery, which presses the point that it would be a bad idea to launch straight into it.

[cowboyfood]

Newguy's advice is good. To answer your question, it is unlikely that you have done permanent damage, but take it very easy until you get the hang of the VED.

Mick, jfl, newguy...

I'm new the the VED protocol, and I too might have overpumped using the A (small) cylinder over the past couple of days.

I've been experiencing some discomfort in the area where the cylinder assembly rests against the body and some general soreness in my penis today...nothing "painful", but just sore...like your body may feel after a decent run when you haven't run in quite a while.

I may be wrong, but when I was pumping I didn't feel any pain, but I've found that the A cylinder is a helluva tight fit.

In my practice sessions, I've noticed I get a lot more lengthwise stretch in the B (medium) cylinder as opposed to the A cylinder.

I'm taking the day off today, and will start back in a day or two and really hold back some....that A cylinder is brutal on me, or vice versa.

CF

[Mick]

You may have to shave some of the hairs where the cylinder ring touches your body.  Ane be sure to lubricate the end of the cylinder ring where it touches you (as well as your penis and the inside of the innermost cylinder).

[bodoo2u]

I'm slightly larger than 6 inches in around (girth) when erect and I tend to feel slightly uncomfortable when I use the small cylinder. Am I too large for the smallest one, and should I use the middle cylinder as my smallest for the protocol?

[bodoo2u]

Fellas,

I've been away for a while. I got away from my VED and traction device usage and noticed that I has some shrinkage and an increase in my curve. The good news is that i didn't stay away from the practices for long, and was able to get back what I lost (thank Goodness).

I'm sure that barring major illness, or losing my hands, I'm never going to get away from actively working on my Peyronies Disease. I didn't think my plaque was active because it wouldn't improve, but I now know that it sure can get worse and do it without pain.  

[Jackieo]

bodoo2u
Sorry to hear about your recurrence...but wanted to thank you for the post.
It is a good reminder to us newbies that this is not a short-term disease and that diligence (slow-and-steady) pays off.
JackieO

[Tim468]

Boodoo,

I think the optimal size for the smallest cylinder should be "slightly smaller in diameter than you are".

That allows it to be confining, and direct the greatest amount of pressure longitudinally. The largest should allow you to full expand laterally without constraint, and I think of the B cylinder as allowing full lateral (girth) expansion, but with a bit of force applied to make you straight.

Just my take on it. Those who start thicker or fatter need to use different diameters IMO.

I note that www.vacutech.com has different sized cylinders for sale (I got one from them and like it) and they ranges from 1 1/2 to 2 3/4 inch diamters. The lengths go up to an optimistic 16 inches available option!

Tim

[Pete28]

Just like to know if anybody on the forum (with minor to medium ED) has seen improvement in duration of erection (without ring) after prolonged use of the VED?

This could be an indicator that the 'restretched tissue' is more able to pinch the veins and thereby holding the blood inside the chambers  ...

[Tim468]

I have seen that, but it could be emotional/psychological, or it could be due to the small dose of Cialis I take every other day!

Tim

[bodoo2u]

Thanks Tim.

JackieO, Peyronies Disease is a stealthy as a Ninja Warrior. If you're older and not as sexually active as some of the younger men with Peyronies Disease, or if you're not be prone to frequent erections, or if you are, but get them nocturnally when you aren't looking at them, you might be surprised at what you see when you finally get a chance to study yourself.

Bodoo

[Bongo]

Dear all,

Some of you might have read my previous posts, where I described my peyronies condition, which has been on-going for 5 years now without any real improvement. My condition mainly affects me with ED and pain. There is no real curvature, except what I have had from birth.

A few people here suggested that I should give it ago with a VED. I was sceptic, because I had been advised not to do so from my urologist. However, I am willing to take a few risks, as this urologist is very conservative.

Having used the Vitality Peyronies pump for only half a week (from Fitzz), I can already see the following improvements:

- Looser hang of both penis and testicles (tissue is much softer and relaxed - minimised tension)
- Pain is minimised
- Erections come easier and are firmer
- I do not loose the erections as fast as before
- Peeing feels more relieving
= Increased life quality

To put it mildly, I am very excited about these improvements. The small cylinder is causing some pain, because my penis can't really expand inside, but then again, the above improvements, have been made with mainly the small cylinder (following the 26 week protocol) + a few test trials with the large tube, just to see how it would feel.

I am starting to believe again..... Thanks to everyone, who suggested this (Old Man and others)!

[ocelot556]

I hope when people say the small cylinder restricts the ability for their penis to extend fully mean to suggest because of the type of suction rather than the physical size of the cylinder itself... otherwise I'm gonna start getting a complex! I can fit inside it no problem, especially since the small cylinder doesn't pull me to my full size. I'm not insecure by any means, it just seems that only a VERY lucky man would have problems fitting into the small cylinder! haha

[Bongo]

Ocelot,

Sure, that is what I mean. Once "inflated", the penis touches the sides of the tube, which is probably as you say, due to the type of suction. I would not call myself big - probably mediocre, although I have had my comlexes too during the course of this disease.

[ocelot556]

Just trying to add a little humor to the situation, Bongo. The small cylinder doesn't get me fully erect. I can feel blood pulling into my member, but I don't get nearly as close to the size I am when naturally erect. Old Man tells me this is normal the first few times, so I'm not sweating it. I'd fill the cylinder out well, if I could get to full size in the VED, but even then I don't think I'll be pressing against the sides! Oh well, it's not the size of the boat as they say... ;>

[Pete28]

ED seems to get worse after using the pump. It almost 'conteracts' the extra i get from Cialis. I also did something stupid couple of weeks ago when i bended my penis in wrong direction when semi-erect. I felt a slight burning sensation and from then penis feels but stiff in flaccid condition. When i go peeing or take a hot bath it relaxes, so i dont think it's fibrosis. It's seem like the spongy tubes are in a small cocoon, it feals a bit 'round' and not flat and soupple. Dont know what to do now. There are two theories. When you have an injury, you have to keep stretching it to prevent excessive scar build up. But on the other hand, doesn't a slight bruise first have to heal.My uro tolt me i just have a small concussion without scar buildup and it will be ok within a month and that i have to keep pumping half an hour each day. I wanted a Doppler but didnt gave be the shot because he thought it would not be appropiate in this condition. Dopplet examination of flaccid penis showed normal corpora without any fibrosis. If this is no fibrosis, what cause the penis to feels stiff?

Yesterday i was pumping when the penis was leaning against the wall of the cylinder. When i pumped i suddenly felt a slight pain at the side where it was leaning aginst the cylinder wall. Of course, when that part can no further expand but you put pressure on it, where does it have to go?

It hurted a bit and now that part seems a bit stiff. Do others recognize this?
Is it very dangerous and can it damage tissue? It's difficult to keep the penis straight in the cylinder so it's not a practical situation.

Dont know what to do know, keep on pumping or not?

[Hawk]

... on the other hand, doesn't a slight bruise first have to heal.My uro tolt me i just have a small concussion without scar buildup and it will be ok within a month and that i have to keep pumping half an hour each day...

Pete, to add a bit a humor, I hope you mean contusion.  A concussion would mean your brain was in your penis, and while we are often accused of that I think it is rare.    

[newguy]

Pete28 - Of course everybody is different, but studies I have posted here relating to VED use after surgery suggest that when used daily VED therapy reduces ED. Of course most people here have not had surgery, but it seems likely that, when used correctly, VED therapy is unlikely to make ED worse. There may be a psychological element to your issue as use of the VED is certainly rather 'alien' at first, and may cause stress. Overpumping is also a big no-no and is has no up side whatsoever.

Bending your penis may be what is responsible for some of your current problems. As a sufferer of peyronie's, it's important to be very careful, because you are likely more susceptible to further injuries and complicated than most of the male population.

[Pete28]

Does anybody know what this 'turtle effect' means from overuse of VED?

Can it be restored with shorter sessions?

[bodoo2u]

I just discovered that petroleum jelly is an excellent lubricant for VED usage. I was in the bargain store the other day when I remembered that I was running low on gel. I decided to pick up a jar of petroleum jelly as an alternative, just to try it out.

It worked well, and I don't have to worry about the embarrassment of going to the regular checkout line in Wal-Mart with three tubes of lube anymore. I have been doing that ever since the pharmacy stopped allowing me to check out there without a prescription.  

[jackp]

Pete

The turtle effect is when the penis is like a turtle. When approached or scared the turtle retrats its head into the shell.