VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices

[Angus]

   Best position for me is standing for the VED. Things are just in a better position for me this way. I know others have used the VED lying down, and I did this long ago. I know lying down or in a reclined postion works for some and certainly can't do any harm as long as one has total control over the tube and pump. Of course you should have total control of the VED device no matter what postion you choose.  

[Tim468]

Two quick answers to questions.

I use it lying down in the bathtub. It is harder to get gradually "pumped up" that way, but I am less likely to get hard fast and be unable to really use the narrowest tube. Since I like to soak in hot water and use soap, this is easiest for me.

The VED has helped me, I am certain of that. It has not fixed me. Instead it has reduced a bit the dorsal curvature I have, and slowed progression of my lateral curve at a time when it seems intent on getting worse. This is not science, but I do make note of the fact that when I left on vacation and did not take it, immediately lost ground and found it impossible to gain it back (especially for the lateral curve which is what is trying to get worse right now).

Tim

[jackp]

Tim468
I was in the hospital from 7/27 through 8/12 and was very weak when I came home so no VED for almost 2.5 weeks.
When I got the courage to first look I said OMG I have lost everything I gained on the VED and them some.
Started back slowly and last night I was almost back to where I was  before the accident. I expect in the next couple of days to get all back I had gained.
The VED has been a life saver for me, waiting on an implant that had to be postponed again to 10/30.
Dr. at Vanderbilt said VED therapy was good and keep it up until the day before the implant surgery.
Old Man got me on the right course last October and I will forever be thankful to him.
Jackp

[shrout]

I'm still using the VED pretty much daily.

I find I can get a good vacuum going more easily if I start the session standing up. But I try to do much longer sessions than I used to ( between 20 and 30 minutes ), which is a long time to stay standing up. So once I've got a good vacuum established I sit down for the rest of the session, and I find that works OK.

[bodoo2u]

Can anyone post a picture of the cylinder seal that a lot of forum members mention here. I'm thinking that it might be something to prevent the VED from pressing against the area surrounding my penis. I'm experiencing some pain in the area below my penis. I think it's some kind of nerve, because when I sit down on a bicycle seat I can't stay there for long.

[Old Man]

bodoo2:

What model VED are you using? If you are using the Vitality OTC three cylinder manual model from Augusta Medical you should have gotten two inserts with the unit. Both are used when using all three cylinder together that it prevents the scrotum from being pulled up into the cylinder assy. You use only one insert when using the large outer cylinder of the Vitality model unless your size needs them both.

Let us know which unit you are using and maybe someone can give you a suggestion about getting another type seal, etc.

In the meantime, lubricate the inserts just enough to cause them to become kind of "sticky" when pumping. The lube does help get a better seal. Also, another thing that most of us have to do it shave of the pubic hair around the base of the penile shaft so that the insert mates up to bare skin instead of the hair. I found this to be a great help in getting a good seal as well as helping with the cushioning effect of the insert.

Using too high a pressure can and will cause pain in the groin area too, so be careful with the pressure.  Will be glad to help in any way with your problem, just let us know.

Old Man

[bodoo2u]

Thanks OM,

I'm using a model I bought from BostonPump.com. I'm not sure if the inserts would even work with my model.

Bodoo

[Old Man]

bodoo2:

I believe that Tim 468 might be able to help you with this problem. Think that he bought his VED materials from that company or one similar to it.

Maybe he will post and let you know where you might get inserts to fit the cylinder you have. I am sure that there are some on the market somewhere.

Old Man

[Tim468]

Boston Pump builds an insert - it is where I got mine!

http://www.bostonpump.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=22

Tim

[seaside2]

I find that the best results are standing up or leaning against the counter top in the bath (Kind of like a bar stool position). I tried using it initially lying in bed, watching TV, but this was not particularly successful.

BTW, I was off the VED for about a week and found that when I returned, I had lost virtually all of what I had gained. At the same time, as soon as I started again, I could see more rapid results. I suspect that the VED and I are life long partners, which is OK by me.

[Old Man]

seaside2:

Yes, I would agree with you that VED should become a partner in one's penile health, especially as we get older. Got my first one way back in 1995 and after it helped me over a bad case Peyronies Disease, I continue using it about three times a week just for maintenance.

Inactivity of the erectile tissue in one's penis will allow it to become "lazy" real soon after ceasing the vacuum therapy. Its use several times a week is a very small price to pay for the major benefits it provides one in sexual health as well the ability to have somewhat of a normal sex life again.

In an earlier post somewhere on the forum, I mentioned that standing up while using the VED does a much better job of getting a good blood flow to one's penis. This is especially true in severe cases of Peyronies Disease and ED. IMHO, it is the better way to go when pumping up.

Keep up the pumping on a regular basis and you will not regret it over the long haul.

Old Man

[wayne999]

Can I put forward the idea that when you stop using your VED for some short period of time, the only reason you see any gains lost is because your penis is going to its actual "normal" state? i.e. the VED might give you curvature/length/girth etc gains but when you stop it for a while your body reverts to normal? If it didn't revert to normal, why wouldn't these VED's be used by every 2nd male on the planet for size enhanement ??

[Old Man]

wayne999:

I don't believe that you will find a post by anyone on this forum where they claim permanent enhancement of their penises. The VED therapy is used for making one's penis more healthy and for correction of Peyronies Disease symptoms. You are right, the penis can never be forced to any size other than what you brought to the table. However, once the Peyronies Disease is handled to a state that is tolerable, the VED is continued to be used to keep what you have gained by its use.

Old Man

[Old Man]

sgtnick:

WOW, don't have the surgery!!! There is help for using a VED. Once you know the basics of how it is done, it is a piece of cake to do. Besides if you have the surgery, you would have trouble with the release valve the docs would have to put in just to urinate.

If you have questions about how to use your VED, just ask away and we can and will help guide through the steps.

Yes, you are right, we will jump through hoops to just even get an erection. But, again that is a gift that most of us take for granted until we lose the ability. So, don't despair, let us know how we can help there can be light at the end of the crooked (no pun intended) tunnel.

Old Man

[jackp]

Old Man
After spending 9 days in the hospital,and nearly dying, it was several days before I could get back to the VED.
My first impression was OMG where did it go! So I started back slowly and after about 4 days was almost back to where I left off. A couple of days later I had regained all I had before my accident.
You guys on VED therapy, Keep It Going. A penis is a terrible thing to loose.
Jackp

[Old Man]

sgtnick:

Sounds like that you have done what in the business world is called "over shopped". Yes, the VED does work for a great number of guys. It is not all that hard to master. You just have to practice a bit with the right VED method.

Please do not give up on it so soon. You have too much to lose by not sticking with the program. It really does not take very much effort to get the hang of using a VED. All the chatter pros and cons on this forum does get confusing at times. However, the guys that fail with the VED are few and far between.

If you will answer my PM to you early today and let's try to get the help you must need based on your post below. You owe it to yourself to at least try one more time. And, try your best to stay with this forum to get the best help anywhere for Peyronies Disease as well as ED.

Old Man

[Old Man]

sgtnick:

Yes, you have asked the basic usual questions about VED usage. It was originally developed only for erectile dysfunction for guys who had difficulty in achieving erections of any kind. Even after using the three best known erectile dysfunction drugs, they still could not achieve erections satisfactory enough for sexual intercourse. So, the VED can into being. Later on, after much experimentation on many guys parts, the VED was realized to be a good tool for Peyronies Disease therapy. So, to answer your questions I will list them by number in the order you listed them below.

1. The purpose of the three cylinders is to provide the maximum amount of therapy for Peyronies Disease. The small cylinder is designed to give the maximum amount of confinement of the penis so that it will be pulled into its longest position based on the amount of vacuum used, but not to the point of pain or discomfort. In the early stages of using the smallest cylinder, one must be careful to use plenty of lube to provide a better sliding effect of the cylinders over the penile shaft - more on this later. To give the maximum amount of stretch in length, the penis must be pulled out from the body, hence the small cylinder, etc.

2. OK, they work together as a "nested" set when using all three. You have to insert the B inside the C and the A inside the B when the protocol calls for using the A cylinder. The protocol that is posted on the VED section of the Child Boards section lists two protocols, one for the home made separate complete cylinder models and one for the purchased 3 "nested" type VED models. I assume that you purchased the 3 cylinder model that has been listed on this forum. So, all three cylinders must be assembled as stated to work with the A small cylinder.

3. Water soluble lubricant has been shown to be the best lube so clean up of the VED is much easier. Grease/petroleum based lubes are very messy, do not provided as good a slippery condition and require much time in clean up. So, most of us use the water based lubes. Other lubes can be used, some guys using shaving cream lotions, mild soap and similar preparations. I do not recommend using any of them since they can and will cause irritation to most guys. Remember, we are dealing with the most tenderest part of our bodies here!

4. The 26 week protocol posted in the Child Boards has some footnotes that give instructions about times, number of cycles and other information. The time one uses the VED for each session is based on how well one tolerates the vacuum pressure and whether or not they have pain or discomfort with extended periods of exercise time. So, use your best judgment about the time limit and how many cycles you use. The protocol is designed around using the VED therapy on a daily basis. Some guys prefer to use two sessions per day, but with a shorter period of time. I use a 20 minute session when using the VED now just for maintenance of what I have gained. If you use only one session per day, I would suggest not more than 20 to 25 minutes each session (Based on how much time you have, etc.) Above all, do not overpump the vacuum pressure at any time. Look up the protocol and follow it. If you have questions about any portion of it, just let us know and we can help.

5. The basic purpose of using the VED for Peyronies Disease therapy is to exercise the erectile tissue and tunica covering to help stretch it back to somewhat of its original size and shape. Keep in mind though that after the curve/bend occurs, the plaque appears along with nodules sometimes, they just simply cannot be returned to their highest level as before Peyronies Disease. It can and will help with Peyronies Disease systems in about 90% of the time. There are, as far as I know, no known studies about this percentage. It is based on my experience helping others with a local cancer support and Peyronies Disease group. The guys in the group report their condition and we compare notes on all of our results from VED usage.

6. The best overall position for use of the VED is in the standing position. Other positions can be used if they work well for one. However, according to my uro, the best position is standing since better blood flow is accomplished while standing. In other words, the blood is kept in the lower part of our bodies longer while standing. This provides a lot more flow than any other position. Lying down does not give as much according to her statement. So, you have to practice using the VED using various positions to determine the best for you.

Bottom line of all the above in my opinion is that using the VED can and will help is most cases so Peyronies Disease. There is nothing to lose by using
the VED therapy. At least, its use does give the penis a better chance of remaining more healthy. Its use replaces the nocturnal erections for those who no longer get them due to the Peyronies Disease symptoms.

Hopefully, the above clears up at least some of your questions. If not, just let me know and we can go further, etc. You must practice using the VED to determine the best overall situation for you. Good luck to you!

Old Man

[seaside2]

sgtnic,

I hear your confusion (to paraphrase Slick Willie Clinton). I was somewhat confused by all the descriptions, pros/cons, etc on this and other sources. Once I broke down and bought the thing, it DID take me a few days to figure it out. Now it is just automatic, like taking a shower, shaving. Just think if we each described the methods, materials, outcomes, consequences of something as simple as shaving. Boy, would that be a mess!!!

In my case, the Peyronies Disease has stabilized, the length and girth dramatically reduced, the curve not too horrible and erections were few and far between. The VED is not the do all/save all, but it is the best thing I've found and I intend to keep on keeping on. It is not a sex toy, we do not use it as "foreplay". It does help penis health, no doubt. Also, as I posted earlier, it has helped reduce my dependence on Flomax. I strongly suspect that the fibrosis of Peyronies Disease affects my urinary tract and the VED opens it up. Even my euro says my prostate is not swollen, but put me on Flomax to ease the urinary discomfort. Flomax has many negative side effects, IMO. So there can be other positive side effects of VED.

Try it, you'll like it!!!

[Old Man]

sgtnick:

What I meant by overshopping is that you may have read so much about using the VED that it became confusing. Relating this term to buying a car it simply means that one looked at way too many vehicles to decide on the right one. Reading too much about VED usage where there are so many differing opinions about their ability to assist in Peyronies Disease therapy can become quite confusing. There is only one goal in VED usage and that is too help get rid or at least reduce the severity of the symptoms. The VED also can and will give one the best erection they ever had if properly used and the right restrictor ring applied if one is required due to ED.

So do some more research on the forum about VED usage before deciding to give it up. As seaside2 says it has helped him and quite a number of others on and off this forum. I know what it did for me even before the three cylinder model VEDs came on the market. Be sure to learn how to correctly use the VED and practice with it until it becomes second nature.

So, again, we urge you to keep your faith that something good can come from VED usage. Keeping a positive attitude about this disease can work wonders for one's well being.

Old Man

[jackisback]

Ok, I will now add to the confusion since I am the resident can't-figure-out-how-to-use-the-VED-person.

I think that my VED is not holding its airtight seal as well as before, and I base it on this:

When I'm pumping up, I can see my penis very slowly deflate in the chamber.......I think that this is a problem because if I'm pumping under Peyronie's guidelines, I've got to pump to a certain level and then hold. If I have even a tiny leak, then it seems to me that it would make it easier to overpump actually, because I could just be overpumped for a second or two and not have a chance to have enough pain to realize I'm clearly overpumped. Whereas, I have noticed in the past that sometimes I can pump up to a certain point, only to feel the discomfort (which of course tells me i've pumped too far) after holding for about five seconds.

I ordered a new rubber O ring for my pump from Augusta, but I don't think this has solved the problem.  Will use a few more times to make sure though.

How about everybody else? Do you typically pump and see your penis deflate? I'm thinking that if any part of my erection becomes natural bloodflow and not pressure, then this could account for some deflating in the tube as the natural part of the erection dies (or is this a fundamental misunderstanding of the physics of the blood in the penis in the chamber?).

I think probably something is wrong with one of the tubes or something, and I'll just buy a new one.  $225 ain't cheap, but I don't want to wait two weeks to mail my thing in, then get it mailed back to me.  And since VEDs are made for getting erections, not for Peyronie's disease, I can't think that my unit likely has a leak so great that they will determine it to be malfunctional. I'll probably just get a new one and be a little more careful with the tubes.


Can anyone advise on which units they have used they have noticed the greatest ability to maintain the erection completely while inside the tube without dying down at all for the 10 second intervals?

[Old Man]

jackisback:

Whoa man, slow down a bit. Your VED losing vacuum pressure is surely caused by some leak source. You should examine all the mating surfaces and cylinders to see if there is a chipped surface or a small crack or other malady. Also, make sure that you are assembling the cylinder correctly inside the larger cylinder.

The A and B cylinders have a little tab that keeps them separated from each other on the end where the sizing insert(s) are used. Make sure that these tabs are still intact and not broken off. If you have for any reason dropped the cylinders, inspect them for chips and/or cracks too. Any small chip or crack can and will cause vacuum leakage.

There are things that can go wrong with these units, so make sure that you have checked everything out first, then make sure you are assembling them correctly. Use each cylinder separately, especially the large cylinder to see if you can maintain vacuum seal that way. If you can maintain a seal that way, add the other cylinders back one at the time to determine which one is causing the failure to keep a seal.

Buying another unit would be costly and if there is a malfunction of your unit, then go for the replacement one from the company where you bought it. The amount of time lost that way will not grossly affect your exercise schedule.

Old Man

[jayhawk]

Old Man,
Thanks for the tip on standing up when using the VED, it makes a big difference, not only does the blood flow faster, but It also seems to makes your unit fuller. I am still trying to figure how much vacuum preassure is enough, should I feel any discomfort?
thanks,
Jayhawk      

[Old Man]

jayhawk:

OK, some of us have a higher threshhold of pain. So, one must be extremely careful not to exceed a certain level of vacuum pressure. You should be able to tell from how your penis feels during the pumping cycles. If it becomes rather tight in the small cylinder for instance, do not exceed a firm condition. It may be kind of difficult to tell when you have reached your best maximum pressure, so experiment with varying levels of pressure until you get the right one. Remember that even after you have stopped pumping, the blood flow will still build up pressure in the penile chambers, so take that into consideration as to what is your best level, etc.

Pumping up too high a vacuum usually produces edema of the foreskin if not circumcised, edema of the glans and in some cases it causes red bumps to appear on the head and along the shaft. If any of these occur, stop the therapy sessions and let the condition heal entirely before starting up again. You don't want to keep starting over with the protocol, so use caution in your cycles.

The above should give you a good idea of how to determine the correct level of pressure for you. As I said, just use varying levels until you get one that is comfortable and not exerts pressure to a point of pain or discomfort.

Old Man

[seaside2]

jackisback,

In my case, if I don't use adequate lube to seal the all of the rubber rings, then I get the situation you describe. If I get my tri-focals on, I can sometimes see a path between the cylinder and the ring where the air is passing through. It is aggravating as he!!, but a generous application of lube at the locking O-ring as well as at the comfort ring (all the way around, skin side as well as rubber to plastic) is what is needed.

Maybe some folks that fill the thing up don't have this problem, but for us little pups, lube works.

[terryd]

the way i check for leaks put lube on rubber stick it to belly if it dont leak than its the sill betwean me and the rubber ring if still leaks i take off rubber ring stick it to my belly if it doesn't leaks than thats were the leak is if it still leak than it probably were pump tightens on cylinder or the pump its self.terryd

[Old Man]

Note to all VED users:

On the purchased three cylinder model VEDs be careful about putting lube on the pump end where the cylinders mate up with O ring on the pump. The lube can be drawn up into the pump and when it dries the pump may become useless.

If you do have to use lube there, place it inside the cylinder very sparingly and not on the pump itself. So, bottom line, use caution.

Also, if one has any urinary leakage into the cylinder(s) while pumping be careful to hold the whole assembly up so that the urine does not get pulled into the pump. The Vitality OTC VED has a small hole in one side of the pump entrance where the vacuum is pulled through so be careful not to get any liquid or lube into that opening. It would be prudent to use the pump with that opening on the top side, so assemble the unit with it up, etc.

Old Man

[Steve]

My 2 cents worth...

First, make sure that there is some lube on the sealing rings where they mate with the plastic tube.  If using both rings, make sure and lube up the outside surface of both rings.

Secondly, it really does help to shave around the sealing area.  All those pubes make for a very leaky seal unless you use a LOT of lube.

Good Luck
Steve

[Quinn]

Hi guys,

I hope all is well. Just wanted to give an update. I've been using my Soma VED for 1 month now..haven't felt my curve has improved but my flaccid length is definitely 0.5-0.75cm longer. I'm not sure whether I'll see any straightening benefit at all as I feel the plaque may be calcified, but shall continue to use the pump regularly until the 6 months are over..fingers crossed!

Quinn

[Iceman]

My 2 cents worth...

First, make sure that there is some lube on the sealing rings where they mate with the plastic tube.  If using both rings, make sure and lube up the outside surface of both rings.

Secondly, it really does help to shave around the sealing area.  All those pubes make for a very leaky seal unless you use a LOT of lube.

Good Luck
Steve

Steve - have you tried pentox

[jackisback]

Seaside2, thanks a bunch! I realized my problem! I put lube the past few times between the rubber insert and the tube, and this has worked great. Before I had only put lube on the inside of the rubber to slide myself in. Now the VED is working great for me again! I'm so glad I didn't buy a new one lol. I'm actually really happy I solved this problem and it was so simple.

Another question for people: do most people feel that it is best to use their penis to the point of orgasm while they are in a VED routine (i don't mean while you're literally physically using the VED)? It seems like you must use your penis to keep it in shape, but I wonder how often guys like us with Peyronie's need to do it to keep in shape if we are using the VED daily. For me it's a bit of a pain in the ass to use the VED every day, then "keep in shape" the other way. Too time consuming. I'm also not sure if it's good to do that right after pumping up with VED. But I'll keep doing it for now (or at least trying to), because I've noticed in the past whenever I stopped for more than a couple days it seemed like erection quality decreased.  But then again, sleep is important for this healing process. Damn, I guess time management is key.  

[duenorth]

hi-- i haven't posted lately, and wanted some feedback on something i am going to try.  first of all my condition is stable--no pain, but still have about a 45 degree bend.  have been doing the supplements (ALC, l carnitine, etc),  and have also been using pentox 2x per day for the past two+ months.  I have also been using the augusta medical ved (the expensive one) in the prescribed technique as found in this forum.  so------ condition stable, no  pain, and although no great improvement in bend, it does seem as the ved has had some benefit as to the condition of my penis.  hard to put into words-- it just seems healthier --better non erect appearance, feels better-- more feeling distal to the curve than before.  all of this is great, except for the curve.  this got me to thinking (a dangerous thing under normal circumstances).  i have decided to make my own ved and customize it to my own specifications.  i have ordered the proper diameter of clear pvc-- a diameter which will allow a fairly tight fit, but still allow some room for tissue expansion.  what i intend to try which is different is:  i plan on putting a bend in the tubing (nothing severe--just enough that i can allow stretching in the OPPOSITE direction of the bend i have now). i have ordered enough tubing so that i can try different bends(i have a way of bending that will not distort the lumenof the tubing). but plan on starting with something gentle--like maybe 20 degrees over the eight inch length of the entire ved.  this to me at least on an intuitive level to holds some promise.  
      not to worry-- i plan on proceeding cautiously.  has anyone ever thought of trying something like this before, or have i simply lost my mind???  to me, this does not seem any more out of line than the other things which we do in an experimental way, or based on anecdotal evidence.  (supplements, etc)
       anyway, i plan on giving it a try--to combine it with my regular ved therapy.  what i need is a link to where people have bought the hand pumps themselves-- i tried a search to no avail.  I should have the other hardware to start fabrication by the beginning of next week.  I will keep you posted as to progress or lack thereof.    any comments or suggestions welcome-----thanks.

[Old Man]

duenorth:

I have to strongly agree with sgtnick on bending in the opposite direction. Early on in my bouts with Peyronies Disease, I tried the bending in the opposite direction exercises as suggested by a male enhancement site that suggested this procedure. To my surprise, I not only did not get any positive results, but developed more pain and the plaque stayed very sore in and around it all the time. Also, more inflammation occurred and took much longer to go away than ever before.

The three cylinder VEDs are designed after many hours of testing in labs and by persons like myself who have passed along to the developers suggestions for making VEDs better to fit the needs of Peyronies Disease case. The three different cylinders are designed to give ones penis varying degrees of pressure lengthwise and in girth. The varying pressures helps promote better blood flow and stretching of the TA and/or plaque areas.

Sgtnick has given you some sage advice about possibly making your Peyronies Disease worse by aggravating the symptoms. So, IMHO, I would not under any circumstances be bending my plaque area in the opposite direction by any means whatever based on my personal experience.

The above carries my usual caveat in that they are solely the opinions of the writer and not that of any other person.

Old Man

[Tim468]

I think that duenorth is on to something, personally.

I have been contemplating making exactly such a tube, but I do note some problems that will probably tank it. First of all, the curve I have is complex and compound, not in one plane. Sinnce I go up and slightly to the left, it would make sense to use a curve that is down and to the right.

But within the tubes I now use, I note a rotational problem. When I pump up, I tend to rotate slightly to the left (the head does). So, as I pump up to my final full pressure on the smaller diameter tube, I often spin it to the right a bit, to straighten the penis out.

I think this means that if this happened in a curved tube, I am out of luck. What will probably happen is that the penis will rotate such that the short side of the penis (the one with plaque) turns to the short side of the tube. So instead of being pulled to the right (in my case), it will probably flip.

Nevertheless, I think it is a good idea to try out with a *gentle* curve to the tube - it makes sense that it will exert a gentle, yet greater traction, to the side with plaque.

Also, regarding the warnings of OldMan - I agree in general with this warning, but I think it applies more to drastic manipulations like are done in jelqing, than to this proposal. I think this will not work well for other reasons detailed above.

Tim

[Angus]

   The small VED tube I made years ago (1 1/2 inch inside diameter) is made of the reinforced vinyl that you can get at any building supply center. The tubing comes on a 3 foot diameter roll and when purchased, the tubing has a curve or radius. The tubing is thick walled and has the "net" fabric molded in to reinforce it and has taken a "set" in the shape of this curve. This radius relaxes a little after purchase but the tubing retains a small radius. Instead of degrees, I'll try to describe the tube curve amount in radius since the tube curves progressively from one end to the other. After reading the last few posts I put a straight edge on the inside curve (or short side) of the VED tubing. This left a space between the tubing and the straight edge half way between the tubing ends. The tube itself is 10 inches long and the space between the tube and straight edge is 1/4 inch. This represents a fairly gentle curve in the tube. I used this VED for a long time and every other cycle I would rotate the tube so it would gently produce an erection opposite in direction to my Peyronies curve. My curve started at 45 degrees to the left and when I would use this small VED, it would produce an erection a FEW degrees to the right, when rotated properly. I could rotate the tube about its axis and point the curve in any direction. Sometimes I would do cycles with the curve pointed to the right then repeat with a few to the left, thinking I was giving the tissue a better "workout" for lack of a better term.
  As time has passed I never mentioned the curved tube aspect I was doing because I thought that the curve radius of the tube was so small that the few degrees of erection bending it was doing was basically inconsequential. I don't know if that small radius and producing erections with it had an effect on the reduction in Peyronies Disease curve from 45 down to 10 degrees. I can report that using it in this manner didn't hurt me or cause pain.
  With all that being said, I would add that anyone thinking of trying this to stay conservative in construction in regards to curve radius... you don't want to try and stretch a 45 degree curve 45 degrees in the opposite direction or you will have devastation, pain and sorrow. I was stretching a 45 degree curve only a FEW degrees in the opposite direction, and I certainly wouldn't make a tube with much more radius than I have described. If anyone jumps in to make a tube like this, play it safe and don't do anything crazy like make tubes with a huge bend in them. Read and remember all warnings about VED safety posted by Old Man, Tim and others. Proceed with caution and DON'T think you can speed things up with too much vacuum, bending and so on. It won't work and you'll be hurting, so just be careful.
  A picture or two of this VED tube can be seen if you go back to page 16 of this thread and scroll down to post #126. The radius is so small that you can't really see it, but the picture will give you a general idea of how it's made.
   

[duenorth]

        thanks for the input on both sides of this issue.  I plan on going ahead with the construction of the tube with the bend and should have all supplies by wednesday.  as angus and tim suggest--i plan on using a very slight curve in the tube (something along the lines of what angus has in his).  my thinking is something like this:  when i look at the 45 degree curve that i have, it seems to me that the curve has not only been created by shortening on the inside of the curve, but also by stretching on the outside of the curve.  when i use the ved, the appearance is that although i am getting stretching on both sides, the side on the outside of the curve is longer.  this is using the b cylinder, and under pressure the cylinder has no space around my penis at all.  this being the case, i simply am thinking of very gently stretching in the opposite direction-- not to bend, but to get the appearance of equal length on both inside and outside lengths in the curved area.  as usual i plan on listening to my body, and to never do anything which causes any pain.
       part of the problem that we face with this disease lies in its apparent complexity.  from all of the research that i have done, the only thing that i can conclude is that there are few absolutes.  a disease like this with unknown or multiple etiology, with possible genetic ties, and with no known cure is anathema to the mainstream medical community.  when you combine this with very little upside for making a lot of money, i fear that research on our behalves will be somewhere between slow and nonexistent.  
      this leaves us with trial and error experimentation on ourselves.  the information on this forum is a godsend, and without a doubt, the best information available on this disease.  in no way am i trying to downplay the effort which has gone into developing the techniques and protocols developed, or the results gained by following them.  i am simply looking (like the rest of you who have over the years tried various techniques and supplements), for the right program for me.  i believe strongly that what may work great for one individual, will be of no help to another.  i believe that this is due to the many forms and courses that this disease takes.  if we can come up with one new little change which can be of benefit in some cases ---  great.  
      like i said--not trying to reinvent the wheel here--just changing something slightly.   angus---- thanks for the information.  i will keep you posted as to progress or lack thereof.  if it turns out to be a another hairbrained idea and path that i have compulsively followed, i will do what i normally do in that situation--have a good laugh at myself, and move on.   thanks again.

[jackp]

Old Man
I have followed the advice you gave me last October on proper use of the VED. Lately have noticed much better looking package.
I have stayed away from the tape measure so not to get up too much hope. Today I marked the VED and measured from my last measurement. What a suprise I have gained almost 3/4 of an inch in 10 months. That is just about a 1/2 inch shy of my size before peyronies in 1995.
Yes, I still have a love hate relationship with the VED because my venous leakage is so bad that the real tight constriction bans cut down on a lot of feeling for sex. (I only use rings for sex).
Thanks for the advice. Keep up the good work.
Jackp

[wayne999]

  The 9 months you've spent sticking with the protocol shouldn't be thought of as a waste of time; you've stuck with the program, but with shorter sessions of pumping. If you can't see huge results right now, don't think that something hasn't been going on with re-molding the penis. When I started with the VED I experimented with everything from 4 or 5 minute sessions all the way up to 45 minutes or more, with varying cycles and vacuum pressures as I hadn't contacted Old Man for the procedures when I started out. It took approximately a year and a half before I saw visible results, but the results have remained stable (about a 10 degree deflection now... perfectly acceptable to me compared to the 45 degree bend I started with).
  You can add time to your sessions and add more cycles, lengthen the duration of cycles and so forth. Keep the vacuum pressure down low and lengthen the time "in tube". You're body will tell you when it's time to end the session when any discomfort is felt.

How long would you say a daily session of VED use should be in order to get good results? One obviously doesn't want to do it for too long or overpump etc. I'm just trying to get an idea of the time committment required each day.

Also, I note that you said you use a smaller cylinder only a few times a week for maintenance. Do you think if you stopped with VED completely that the 45 degree curve might come back? i.e. do you think the scar tissue/plaque that you strectched would contract again ?

EDIT:
Also wanted to ask if anyone thinks there are any long-term negative side affects of using the VED or traction devices etc? I mean is it possible your penis gets "used to" the pump and it's harder to get natural erections ?

And finally, do you guys think VED has the ability to get rid of hour glass type deformities? My curvature looks like its the result of the chambers being of two different sized cylinders and at the point where they meet is where the curvature is. Even in the flaccid state I sometimes notice this hour glass effect, anyone else experience similar ?

[Old Man]

wayne999:

I am sure that Angus will answer your post later. However, I will jump in and state that you should use the VED daily sessions for at least 15 minutes or so after you get used to using the VED. It takes a while for your penis to adjust to the added pressure of the vacuum. So, be careful and don't over pump the pressure at any time.

Go the the VED section of the Child Boards on the home page of the main forum. Open the link to that section and your will find two protocols for two different types of VED. One is of the guys who made their own single cylinder (three different sizes) and one for the purchased VEDs that have the three cylinders. There are notes that explain about using the protocol and how it is to be followed.

Feel free to ask any and all questions about using the VED and we can and will help.

Old Mn

[Angus]

  The 9 months you've spent sticking with the protocol shouldn't be thought of as a waste of time; you've stuck with the program, but with shorter sessions of pumping. If you can't see huge results right now, don't think that something hasn't been going on with re-molding the penis. When I started with the VED I experimented with everything from 4 or 5 minute sessions all the way up to 45 minutes or more, with varying cycles and vacuum pressures as I hadn't contacted Old Man for the procedures when I started out. It took approximately a year and a half before I saw visible results, but the results have remained stable (about a 10 degree deflection now... perfectly acceptable to me compared to the 45 degree bend I started with).
  You can add time to your sessions and add more cycles, lengthen the duration of cycles and so forth. Keep the vacuum pressure down low and lengthen the time "in tube". You're body will tell you when it's time to end the session when any discomfort is felt.

How long would you say a daily session of VED use should be in order to get good results? One obviously doesn't want to do it for too long or overpump etc. I'm just trying to get an idea of the time committment required each day.

Also, I note that you said you use a smaller cylinder only a few times a week for maintenance. Do you think if you stopped with VED completely that the 45 degree curve might come back? i.e. do you think the scar tissue/plaque that you strectched would contract again ?

EDIT:
Also wanted to ask if anyone thinks there are any long-term negative side affects of using the VED or traction devices etc? I mean is it possible your penis gets "used to" the pump and it's harder to get natural erections ?

And finally, do you guys think VED has the ability to get rid of hour glass type deformities? My curvature looks like its the result of the chambers being of two different sized cylinders and at the point where they meet is where the curvature is. Even in the flaccid state I sometimes notice this hour glass effect, anyone else experience similar ?

  You need to average 15 or 20 minute sessions each day then adjust to what your body tells you if necessary. Some days circumstances may permit only 10 minutes, other days you may be able to go 30 minutes. The important thing is regular use; try not to miss a day, although sometimes that's unavoidable. Listen to your body; if you have swelling and redness, you're going too long or overpumping, so the regular warnings we give apply here. You will have to adjust the actual time spent with the VED according to your own body; one guy might think 30 minutes is a minimum and the next guy will say he can't pump longer than 15 minutes. These are guidelines; your body will tell you when the session is over as you'll soon recognize the feelings of stretched tissue after many cycles.
  I have gone on vacations and trips where the VED wasn't taken along. No curve has returned. I've gone weeks without using the VED with no adverse effects. The only reason scar tissue would contract again would be because of repeat injury, hence the warnings and guidelines we give so many times in the thread. I know of no recorded instances where a Peyronies Disease curve returned because of stopping VED use.
  I know of no long-term effects of VED use in regards to natural erections. Traction devices I have no knowledge of. If someone develops erectile dysfunction in the time frame while one is using a VED, that person would need to look at the usual causes of ED and have that assessed by a urologist. This is assuming that the VED is being used carefully and not overpumping, etc.
 Hourglass deformities are tough. They are caused by tissue that can no longer "inflate" with blood. In my opinion the VED can remodel tissue into a straighter overall state in regards to curved peni, but it cannot re-constitute scarred cavernosa tissue that cannot inflate. The hourglass condition will probably remain even after a curve reduction is experienced. When somebody solves the hourglass condition with a fix, they'll have my undivided attention and probably a few other members as well!
 Ask questions whenever you want. We're writing the book here, and without input, questions and answers, we'd go nowhere with this therapy.  

[wayne999]

Angus, thanks for your reply.

Does everyone agree here that scarring of the corpora carvernosa is the reason for hourglass deformities? If so, this sounds more complex than scarring on the tunica, but I'm sure i've read of reports of people here who have said that the therapy they were using may have improved their hourglass figure  hmm...

Also for people who have corrected some/all of their curvature: Is there also a regain of flexibility? I mean, with about a 40deg downward curve there is a limit to how much my erect member will go back toward my stomach. If curves are minimized, does this also imply that some flexibility will return?

[jackp]

Angus
I agree with most things you say except the VED effect on Corporal Fibrosis and Peyronies scar.
My peyronies started in 1995 and all the doctor did was put me on vitamin E and potaba. About 18 months later the curve corrected but left me 1.25 inches shorter. Dr. said nothing he could do.
In 2004 ED was so bad I tried injection therapy for ED, I used it almost a year with little to no effect. Dr. Recommended implant.
10/2006 Had implant scheduled but chest pains and heart stents made me wait another year. I asked my uro what could I do I was 100% impotent. He had me fit with a VED in his office. The instructions were not clear or I did not understand them and caused an abrasion that took 2 months to heal.
10/2007 Implant surgery had to be aborted. Doctor penetrated my urethra. The reason for the penetration was corporal fibrosis from the shots.
10/2007 I found this site and OLD MAN put me on the right track on VED usage. I have been closely following his instructions and yesterday measured my self and I had gained back about 3/4 of an inch.
All this to say.
Proper VED usage will help the penis. It will not cure you, but make it healthier.
If you do not have started the VED be sure to contact Old Man and follow his instructions. It takes time and do not rush the process. Even my new doctor recommends VED therapy.
Jackp

[Angus]

Thanks jackp. We do agree that the VED does work for most and that it is a pro-active treatment that a man can actually do. My comments are made based on my own personal experiences with the VED and how my body reacted to its use. Peyronies Disease is SO different in regards to how it affects men physiologically, and VED use will produce results and outcomes that will vary from individual to individual. And I agree that step one for men thinking of the VED is to read the Child Board thread on VED's and contact Old Man, Professor Emeritus of VED use, and get started right away.
  Old Man, I hope you don't mind that I gave you that "tag". There's lots of guys here you've helped, including me, and I don't think anyone will mind me saying that!

[Mick]

Angus:

I agree that Old Man should be considered a professor, but not "emeritus."  Emeritus professors are retired!  Old Man is too active for that title.

Mick

[Hawk]

If I am not mistaken,  Dr. Levine's preliminary study surprised him because hour-glass deformity was also improved with traction.

[Ptolemy]

Interesting. I was about to post that in addition to the bend improvement I have, the improvement in the "hour glass" have been quite dramatic as well. I had assumed this improvement was from the VED not Traction. Particularly, the use of the largest tube is like throwing my penis out an open window - the tube is too big but because it is too big the vacuum I assumed was improving the girth in the plaque area. Now you're suggesting that it might be the Traction that is making that improvement.

Whatever, I'm motivated to continue what I've been doing (VED and Traction) in that the results are very satisfying.

[getting_there_in_oregon]

i have one of those cheapter VED's "Encore VTU 1".

i've had it since the end of last winter but didn't use it much starting in spring until now. it's not comfrotable. i had to get the latex 'shields' so it doesn't such everthing up into the tube. none the less it tend so make my penis soar after, even though i don't think i'm pumping too much.

how much are the good one's and where do i get it?! i many not have the $ now but i can save up...

regardless... how often should i be doing it and how long do i keep it in the vacuum each "inflation". etc...? get the question?

i have the VED... what do i do with it? i want to do it right and also eventually get a more comfortable VED.

any thoughts would be great! thanks...

[Iceman]

GOOD NEWS... my dents seemed to have disappeared on the top of my shaft - very stoked!!

Could be the VED usage  I think...

cheers

[Old Man]

getting_there:

It appears that the better buy right now for a good durable medical quality VED is the Augusta Vitality OTC model. The best price that everyone is getting is at this site:  www.fitzz.com

The last time I was on that web site, the VED was priced at $229.99 with free shipping. It is the three cylinder model that is marketed for ED rather than Peyronies Disease, but it works great for Peyronies Disease. The protocol of choice for the three cylinder VEDs is the 26 week one listed on the VED thread in the Childs Board which is a link just under the main forum link on the home page of the forum.

Go to the VED topic there and you will find the 26 week protocol for the three cylinder model VEDs.
The recommended schedule for these units is every day for the entire period of time. There are notes listed on the protocol page that show suggested times, cycles and other pertinent information about VED usage.

If you have further questions, just let them be known and someone will get the answer(s) for you.

Old Man

[wayne999]

Old Man: Is that the #1 rated VED you would recommend?

Also i was wondering how long it took for you to see results with the VED? And what your curvature was like before you started VED? (I understand you have 0 curvature now).

[Angus]

Iceman... your news is good. I hope the dent reduction is working on being a permanent thing. Let us know.

getting_there... save up and get the Vitality... if the one you have is causing pain, it needs to be retired!

Ptolemy... it might well be the combination that you're using that got your results. There aren't enough studies for us to glean much from to get a solid idea of what kind of forces work to get results. Keep up what you're doing if you're comfortable with it and let us know down the line if you have any changes.

Mick... when I was in school there was a professor emeritus that was retired from assigned duties... but he stuck around to help out even though he wasn't on the payroll anymore our Old Man is light years away from the stereotype ol' man rocking away in a rocking chair lol... I'd lay money that if I ever met him in person that I couldn't keep up with the feller   So, I use emeritus as a term of respect   I thought a title with a bit of Latin in it would lend a bit of flair  
Old Man, you've got flair... and thanks for all that you take time to do on this forum!