VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices

[Pops]

I haven't obtained my VED yet, but one of the things I want to try is about 1/2 Viagra and Ved at the same time. I'm learning from all of your post and I'll try not to over do it. I will however want to use the Viagra for it's designed purpose after ved exercise because it would be such a waste not to. I haven't read any post by anyone trying this, but it seems that the increased blood flow from the Viagra would help the effect of Ved.

[Tim468]

Pops,

Using Viagra and the VED at the same time seems to me like a waste of money (or more precisely, viagra).

I have done that when I have planned on having sex soon. I had wanted to "pre-stretch" my penis before sex, because I like feeling a little larger and harder during sex (that is how I feel - I am not sure it is "real" - haven't gotten out the protractor yet). So, on evenings when I had sex in mind, had taken viagra, and then used the VED, I have noticed some things are different. I notice that the entire shaft is hard extending down into the perineum like a "real erection". This is sometimes different without viagra - sometimes it is softer down below the opening of the tube (below the scrotum). Since that is not where my problem is, I do not know if that matters.

Based on measures on the tube, there is no difference in penis size, which shows us that there is no better blood flow, or blood entrapment in the corpora. The VED tube exerts a supra-physiologic amount of pressure (in the form of a vacuum) that will at least equal, and probably exceed the delivery of blood naturally after viagra.

It is probable that viagra helps in general with blood flow and with anti-inflammatory processes at all times. But I do not think there is any likely additive or synergistic value to using both at the same time.

Tim

[Pops]

Tim

I'm not going to use Viagra every time I use my VED, but I don't plan on wasting the viagra when I do. The comments you made are interesting and it sounds like from your experience that things do seem to be different. I furthermore don't think I can afford to take Viagra every time I use VED. Thanks for you input. I value your comments highly. I know that by you being a doctor with the same problem I have that you have probally done much more in depth research than I'm capable of doing. Keep your comments coming.

[Pops]

AR & Oldman

I ordered the Vitality OTC yesterday, from Augusta Medical, and added the additional cylinders to the package, as advised by you. It should be in by Wednesday and I need to find 26 week protocol you referred to in previous post. Oldman said it's on the forum, but I don't know where to find it.

In case any of the new members are interested, the total cost was $335.00 shipping and all. I ordered by phone and the guy that took my ordered was helpful with my purchase. I told him I was on this forum and that I was using it for treatment of Peyronies. He said the VED was not built for this use but he knew that Peyronies was being treated with this device with success and knew what I was looking for on the extra cylinders. You  may be able to find this unit on another web site for less or you may be able to find a less expensive brand that works as well. I'm taking AR's and Oldman's advice and going with this model. It's suppose to be about the same pump as the more expensive Rx model and I think it will work as well.

[Old Man]

Pops:

Yes, the Vitality OTC VED is the same pump unit as furnished with the Somaerect VED. The only difference is the name stamped or shown on the pump for marketing purposes. The cylinders are also the same. If you have health insurance ask the agent if they will pay part of the cost. You would need a prescription from your uro or doctor to back up your claim. The RX must specify that the VED is to be used for ED and not Peyronies Disease for the insurance to kick in any payment. At any rate, ask if they will help.

The 26 week three cylinder protocol can be downloaded from this site:   www.vacuumtherapy.org

This site is in Birmingham, AL and they are supposed to be conducting a study using the three cylinder VEDs and publish their findings. As yet, I have not seen any report of results from their study. It has been going on for some time now and should be over soon, I hope.

Go to the above site by simply clicking on it from this post and it should go directly to it. Look on the left margin of their home page and you will see a link called "extras". Click on that link and it will bring the page with the 26 week protocol. You can print it out from there if you have a printer hooked up to you computer. If not, on occasion, several guys have simply taken a digital photo of it. Either way you would have it for your use.

If we can help further, just let us know.

Old Man

PS: Give me a PM and I will explain about how to use the schedule of the cylinders if your need too. It can be difficult to understand which cylinders are to be used with each week's therapy.

[AR]

Congratulations Pops.  

I actually spent a lot less on my Vitality through a company called Fitzz, that Moguy posted awhile back (and, found it even cheaper from another place called Reach), but when I needed a little spacing-ring-part, Augusta gave me the once over and I wound up having to make my own.  You'll be able to "register" with Augusta and should have no problems with getting parts, advice, etc. in the future, and this, I guess is the price difference...

As Old Man and others advise/warn - be very careful.

Good luck.

AR

[gnosis]

I bought the pump with a gauge and 3 tubes of different sizes from Jtstockroom which was a link here.  I have an easier time establishing a good seal at the base, and thus good vacuum,  with the smaller tube, 1 and 3/4 diameter.  I'm not certain I have the right size; perhaps the small tube of the three should be 1.5.  I have pumped about 15 times, quite regularly in the last week (daily).  At first at the 5 mark on the gauge, I got a little discomfort so heeding the discussion here I wait and around 5 minutes that passes.  Now I seem to be able to go up to 10 quickly before I hit that discomfort so I stay there for 5 minutes, then 12.5 for 5 minutes, 15 for 5 minutes, and 17-20 for 5 minutes but only if those feel ok.  If I pump for 15 minutes and get up above 10 there is a large expansion of my penis, like larger than I've ever seen it.  The hourglass effect almost disappears at 15 minutes and 12.5 pressure.  More impressive to me, the hourglass effect which is usually obvious visually when I pee, is mostly not there for like 12-24 hours after VED use.   It is still "there" in other ways but it is striking to see the change visually.  Moreover, when I palpitate the plaque which is large and at the base, the texture seems different.   I mean like the day after pumping or something.  I don't know what to make of it??

I have felt like I am going slow but it's hard to know???  

Regularly I have a small problem with the vacuum leaking a bit from the base.  If it is well sealed, I get the pressure up to a point and then just wait.  But with the leaking at the base, I have to pump a good bit to keep it at 10, and it's almost impossible with a leak to keep it at 17.5.   I'm thinking I need to use one of the plastic base things.  I don't know how yet.  I actually have another VED, the vacurect, that I haven't used yet.  ANd it has a bunch of plastic seals but I don't know how that all works yet.  Any suggestions about getting a better seal at the base?

So while there is a great deal of expansion of the penis both in girth and length, I haven't had an erection from the VED.  I thought that was one of its functions???  Since I do have some form of ED along with the Peyronies Disease that is a secondary purpose of the VED.  

I have a woman friend who lives across the ocean so I can have months without real testing or practice and then have a week or two of intensive discovery about where the Peyronies Disease and ED are at.  I heard Ptolemy's frustration with a similar situation but not nearly so far.  

 

[newguy]

I just want to post a quick message to emphasise a more cautious approach. My aim really isn't to achieve a "large expansion of my penis, like larger than I've ever seen it", but rather to take a sure and steady approach. It's positive that the hourglass effect changes the more you pump as this probabably goes some way to demonstrating how the process works over time, but it's important not to try to be too enthusiastic. I could of course be wrong, and who knows maybe going 'hell for leather' could make improvements come quicker, but it could also result in damage if you are not careful. Take into account that you could be using the VED for months/years to come. Just my view .

I bought the pump with a gauge and 3 tubes of different sizes from Jtstockroom which was a link here.  I have an easier time establishing a good seal at the base, and thus good vacuum,  with the smaller tube, 1 and 3/4 diameter.  I'm not certain I have the right size; perhaps the small tube of the three should be 1.5.  I have pumped about 15 times, quite regularly in the last week (daily).  At first at the 5 mark on the gauge, I got a little discomfort so heeding the discussion here I wait and around 5 minutes that passes.  Now I seem to be able to go up to 10 quickly before I hit that discomfort so I stay there for 5 minutes, then 12.5 for 5 minutes, 15 for 5 minutes, and 17-20 for 5 minutes but only if those feel ok.  If I pump for 15 minutes and get up above 10 there is a large expansion of my penis, like larger than I've ever seen it.  The hourglass effect almost disappears at 15 minutes and 12.5 pressure.  More impressive to me, the hourglass effect which is usually obvious visually when I pee, is mostly not there for like 12-24 hours after VED use.   It is still "there" in other ways but it is striking to see the change visually.  Moreover, when I palpitate the plaque which is large and at the base, the texture seems different.   I mean like the day after pumping or something.  I don't know what to make of it??

I have felt like I am going slow but it's hard to know???  

Regularly I have a small problem with the vacuum leaking a bit from the base.  If it is well sealed, I get the pressure up to a point and then just wait.  But with the leaking at the base, I have to pump a good bit to keep it at 10, and it's almost impossible with a leak to keep it at 17.5.   I'm thinking I need to use one of the plastic base things.  I don't know how yet.  I actually have another VED, the vacurect, that I haven't used yet.  ANd it has a bunch of plastic seals but I don't know how that all works yet.  Any suggestions about getting a better seal at the base?

So while there is a great deal of expansion of the penis both in girth and length, I haven't had an erection from the VED.  I thought that was one of its functions???  Since I do have some form of ED along with the Peyronies Disease that is a secondary purpose of the VED.  

I have a woman friend who lives across the ocean so I can have months without real testing or practice and then have a week or two of intensive discovery about where the Peyronies Disease and ED are at.  I heard Ptolemy's frustration with a similar situation but not nearly so far.  

[Old Man]

Newguy:

You are exactly right about pumping too much pressure during the VED exercises. VED therapy for Peyronies Disease is a case where less is better than more. More pressure than is necessary to achieve good results can and will cause more trauma. That is why some uros and doctors do not recommend using the VEDs for Peyronies Disease. You can even do further damage using a VED for ED if two much pressure is used and one applies the restrictor rings to hold up the erection. I know from experience that both are the case.

During my first encounters with the VED for both ED and Peyronies Disease, I caused further damage to my penis. However, after the healing process, I continued with the therapy and was successful in getting rid of my symptoms. A lot of practice, more practice and just downright anguish went under the bridge of experience before I learned the hard way how to handle VED therapy/treatment.

So, bottom line to all new guys using the VEDs, heed the WARNINGS that all of us are stating about over pumping your VEDs while doing your exercises. You will reap more benefits from less rather than more.

Old Man

[jackp]

Old Man
Keep up the good work. Slow and easy is the best approach. When I first got the VED I started out all wrong and has an abrasion about the size of a silver dollar just behind the galns. Took weeks to heal even with meds from the doctor.
Your pump and release has worked well for me. Over the last several weeks I have gained back between 1/4 and 1/2 inches in length. Penis feels much better. I never could feel the fibrosis in the corpora's but now my penis feels much healthier to the touch.
Keep up the good work.
Jackp

[shrout]

Hello Guys

I've been using the VED for about 9 months now, and I have to say I've reached something of a crossroads. I'm wondering if there's any point in continuing. I can safely say it's done me no harm, and may have caused some slight improvement, but certainly nothing that's easily measurable or obvious... I would have noticed!  (unlike jackp I have a very palpable fibrosis, and i fail to see how a VED can be expected to make any significant impression on it). A couple of times I've thought something significant was beginning to happen, only to be disappointed when what seemed to be progress proved to be temporary. Or maybe it was all just wishful thinking.
I must say I find it hard to understand the rationale (if that's the correct word) behind VED usage for Peyronie's. What's actually supposed to happen at a cellular level, and what's the agent of the change? Is it gentle stretching, or increased blood flow to areas around the plaque, or something else?
Traction on the other hand is more easily understandable for a simpleton like me. Virtually anything, if stretched with enough force for long enough, will surely undergo change. But is sufficient force or time to bring about change possible with the VED? My feeling is no.
I'm willing to give almost anything a try to reverse this affliction. Being a shy type, it took me 30 years or so to really feel at ease with women, and , in my mind, to get to see sex in it's rightful place as a natural part of a loving relationship. Then this happens, and pretty much all that confidence has drained away, so that now I'm reluctant to even approach women because I know at some point.. well, you all know what.
So I'm looking towards traction as a possibility, but notice that some of the enthusiasm which existed on the traction thread has faded somewhat. We're still waiting for the results of Dr.Levine's follow-up to the pilot study, if such a follow-up has actually taken place, and Hawk, you seemed to be making good progress back in February, but since then you've not notified us of any further progress. Has there been no more progress, or have you had to stop for some reason?

Sorry, this has been a rambling post, but I'm a little down and disappointed at the moment, and don't really know which way to turn... AND I've just burned the rice I was cooking for supper... DARN IT!!

Cheers guys

PJ... aka Shrout

[Ptolemy]

When my Uro suggested the VED I was willing to try anything. I've never been able to find anything though that explains exactly what it is supposed to do. I have been using a VED for over a year now and will continue. Here's why.

By the time I started using the VED I had plaque the size of a quarter, plenty of hour glass effect, a 90 degree bend as well as the turtle effect. It seemed to me that as the plaque grew and hardened, it effectively was reducing the amount of blood that was able to get into the area. Assuming that blood is required for good health maintenance as well as any possible healing, I see the VED helping more blood get to areas around the plaque than would happen without the VED.

I also use traction but if I had to discontinue one I'd discontinue the traction simply because of ease of use of the VED over traction. I can say that I have less bend now although the size of the plaque seems as large as its ever been. I have less of an hour glass look and can have intercourse now. So if I were you shrout, I would continue using it.

[Old Man]

shrout:

I agree with Ptolemy about continuing use of the VED therapy. Are you using it correctly? I have worked several guys who were about to give up on the VED and they started using a very simple exercise with the VED and they got good results.

What therapy routine are you using with the VED? Also, which VED do you have? The 26 week protocol works best with the three cylinder model VEDs. Another type of exercises will work best with a single cylinder VED. So it is important to know which unit you are working with for your exercises.

I will be glad to assist you in any way to get into a routine that works if you are having trouble with present one.

Old Man

[AR]

Hi Guys: Ptolemy, what exactly is the "turtle effect"?

Thanks

AR

[Ptolemy]

Don't know that its ever been defined on these boards but for me, the shrinkage/shortening of the penis from the plaque causes the head of the penis to function like a turtles head retreating/hiding under its shell.

[Old Man]

AR:

In addition to the explanation by Ptolemy, turtle effect is also a condition in older men whose sexual activity has slowed down. Since they have less sexual activity and do not get erections as often as when younger, the penis tends to "draw up" into the body. In some cases, they even have trouble getting their "tool" out far enough to urinate.

I have worked with several friends who had this condition. They started using the VED upon getting an RX from their doctor. It has worked in just about every case for them. Most have seen a recovery of their length and some even are having good erections again.

Old Man

[shrout]

Ptolemy : Old Man

Thanks very much for your response. I very much want to continue with the VED... I don't find it a burden to use at all, in fact I quite enjoy using it. I'm just rather puzzled as how the protocol for the VED (10 cycles of 10 second stretches per day) can possibly be enough, when traction requires hours of stretching per day. Is it that stretching with an engorged penis (VED) is considered more effective than simply stretching (traction), and therefore requires a lot less time to have an effect?  

OM :  I have the 3-cylinder Soma Correct, and I used the recommended protocol (10 x 10 second stretches per day, using each tube in turn as directed). After 6 months I increased the first hold to 15 seconds, followed by 16 for the second hold, 17 for the third etc. .. all the way up to 25 seconds for the last hold. Even that routine only amounts to a little over 3 minutes of stretching per day. Can that ever be be enough to have an effect on some pretty darn rubbery old plaque?
Having said that, I'd be very interested to try the simple exercise you mentioned which the other guys found worked well. Could you send it to me by PM? Or perhaps post it here so that other guys could try it.

Many thanks to you both. Your help much appreciated.

PJ.

[AR]

Old Man and Ptolemy:
I thank you for that explanation of the turtle effect.  I thank God I don't have it yet!!

Shrout: Couple good questions there, but I think you've got the protocol with the cylinders wrong..?  I'm curious to see Old Man's response, and his answers.. If you're referring to the "milking" exercise, I hope he'll post it out here, as I could use more clarification as well.

Best,  AR

[Old Man]

Shrout:

I think that maybe you do have the protocol down wrong. The website that has it posted does not give a very good explanation of it's regimen.
The way it should work is this: Week one of the schedule calls for all three cylinders, Week 2 calls for only B & C cylinders, Week 3 calls for only C cylinder and so on through the 26 week course. If one does not see any good results from this regimen, simply start over with Week One and repeat the entire course again. Remember, plaque probably came into being slowly and will possibly go away the same way. So, be patient, do the exercises as listed, and you can extend the number of cycles (I did with better success) as long as you do not feel any pain or discomfort while doing the cycles or afterwards. You have to be the judge of the amount of time and the amount of pressure. I firmly believe, as you do, that only 3 minutes of exercising is not enough to do any good. Just don't overpump the pressure at any time.

Now, about the "milking action" that AR mentioned. This is the way that I did it with the old Osbon Esteem and the new Soma Correct (Somaerect too): Using the B & C cylinders so that I could get a good tight seal around the base of my penis, I pumped up enough pressure to get a partial erection started. Then without adding more pressure I pullled the entire assy. out from my body an inch or so and held it with the pressure on for about 10 seconds, then pushed the assy. back against my body still holding the pressure adding any if needed to keep a good tight seal. Repeated these cycles for at least 10 minutes, but not long enough to cause any problems with pain, etc. Takes a little of practice to get used to this, but it can and will do a better job of the vacuum therapy. You can also do the regular cycles first and then do the milking action cycles. I found both to be very effective in getting a larger amount of blood flow and better results.

You also do the regular exercise cycles much longer than the three minutes you mentioned. Hold each cycle at least 10 seconds or more before relaxing the pressure. You be the judge of how much activity of exercises your penis will stand without pain or discomfort afterwards. Just use caution as the watchword in any and all exercises with the VED. This applies to all that using it.

AR: You now have the "milking action exercise" posted for all to see. It really is a very simple routine, but does give very effective results if used on a regular daily basis in a proper manner without overpumping the vacuum, for at least the 26 week scheduled course of cycles, etc. It can be repeated if the first 26 weeks do not give the results desired, etc.

Old Man

[Old Man]

Note to new guys:

If interested in using the 26 week protocol for VED usage, it can be found at this link (which has been posted on the forum before in several topics):

www.vacuumtherapy.org

It does lack a certain amount of explanation on the use of the cycles, but I will be glad to assist anyone needing clarification of them.


Old Man

[shrout]

Thanks Old Man & AR,

I'll print out that post... no.1318, and keep it for future reference, and resume my VED use... extending the normal protocol and adding the milking action as well ( making sure never to overdo it   )

I'll keep you posted.

[AR]

Old Man:  Got it. Thanks for posting your "milking action" procedure again.

However, there is some confusion (for me) with the "protocol" I've printed out from that web site, and what you share...?  They make no mention of using all three cylinders the first week, and only B and C in the second week...?  I'm wandering if I have an older version, as they mention on page 2 that they will "..shortly be posting a new treatment protocol.."  wait. I see they mention the older is Spivey's, and the new one will be Dr. Levine's.. ?  Which are we referring to?

In the dark here,  AR        

[Old Man]

AR:

I have stated all along that the Spivey protocol is based on the one that originally came with the Soma Correct VED made by Augusta Medical that was taken off the market. Apparently the Spivey study took the protocol for their study, but it is actually one and the same.

It should list the actual number of cylinders for each week, but for some reason they left off the first few weeks of not giving the actual number or letters of cylinders. Weeks one and two  of the schedule should list that cylinders A, B and C are to be used and Week three and four use only B & C, Week five C only for example and then pick up with the rest of the schedule. It looks like from reading the schedule again that the cylinder listed for each week means the smallest one for that week of exercise schedule which is required. (Small means all three cylinders, medium means medium and large, large means large only). I have the original Augusta protocol posted somewhere on the forum, I think maybe in the VED section of the Child Boards.

I have it also in a folder on my computer and can send it by attaching in an email. Will try to locate it and have it ready for anyone needing it.

Old Man

P.S: This post was modified by me to clarify the cylinder listings after my original post in case someone read the original which was in error about which cylinder(s) to use.

[shrout]

Old Man

sorry to keep prattling on about protocols, but...

on P.18 of the Augusta manual for the Soma Correct , under the heading "The Initial Therapeutic Application", it describes what a therapy session should consist of, and states that it should be continued for 20-30 minutes.

on P.20 of the same manual, under the heading  "Tracking - The Therapeutic Treatment Protocol" its describes a therapy session as consisting of 10 x 10 second cycles. This is the same protocol as the one in the link you provided...

www.vacuumtherapy.org

... and this is the one I've been using, with a little adaptation, for the past 9 months or so.


Little wonder I'm confused. Which is the correct protocol to follow? As we've both agreed 3 minutes a day is nowhere near enough, I guess it must be the first one.  If so, I've wasted 9 months following the wrong protocol.


Many thanks in advance.

PJ.

[Old Man]

shrout:

Yes, there is and has been quite a bit of confusion about the 26 week protocol. It was first published for use with the old Soma Correct VED when it was put on the market for Peyronies Disease therapy. The study that is being conducted at the vacuum therapy clinic in Birmingham, AL is using the three cylinder VED. The protocol they are using is exactly like the original one with the Soma Correct VED. However, they did not give enough instructions about each weekly cycle, i.e. which cylinder or cylinders to be used for that week's exercise cycle, etc.

I agree with you totally that 3 or 4 minutes of exercises is not enough to do any good. So, increase the number of cycles and/or time that you do them. However, do not overdo it to the point of causing pain or any further damage/trauma. Be extremely careful not to use too much vacuum pressure. Each person has a different level of endurance/pain so use your best judgement about what is enough.

Angus and myself are in the process of getting a revised schedule that is more explicit and easily read and understood placed in a prominent place on the main forum. So watch for it soon if all goes well with the transition.

I can email it to anyone desiring it simply by giving me your email in a PM. Will be no problem for me to do that. I have written it out in plain English, etc.

Old Man

[Angus]

An easier to understand, clearer version of the 26 week protocol is now posted in the Child Boards, VED thread and can be found easily. Go to the Child Boards, the VED thread and scroll to near the bottom of the single post because entries there are in chronological order (oldest first, newest last, so the newest entries will be at the bottom). The text of the better-worded protocol is in RED, compared to the other entries which alternate from black to blue.



https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/board,18.0.html

[Angus]

  The 9 months you've spent sticking with the protocol shouldn't be thought of as a waste of time; you've stuck with the program, but with shorter sessions of pumping. If you can't see huge results right now, don't think that something hasn't been going on with re-molding the penis. When I started with the VED I experimented with everything from 4 or 5 minute sessions all the way up to 45 minutes or more, with varying cycles and vacuum pressures as I hadn't contacted Old Man for the procedures when I started out. It took approximately a year and a half before I saw visible results, but the results have remained stable (about a 10 degree deflection now... perfectly acceptable to me compared to the 45 degree bend I started with).
  You can add time to your sessions and add more cycles, lengthen the duration of cycles and so forth. Keep the vacuum pressure down low and lengthen the time "in tube". You're body will tell you when it's time to end the session when any discomfort is felt.  

[shrout]

Thanks Angus.

The story of your improvement ( and Old Man's as well ) through VED use gives
me ( and all of us, I expect ) a great deal of encouragement to continue, which I will do now, taking on board what you've said.

I'm still a bit peeved that Augusta Medical should publish two very different protocols in the same manual, one of which an expert in the field (OM) agrees is of little use. There's no note in the manual to say that the number of cycles/ stretch times can be gradually increased once the penis gets used to the exercises.

Whatever. Anyway, perhaps what you say about the 9 months not being completely wasted is fair comment. I hope so.

Thanks again.

PJ.

[Old Man]

shrout:

In case this would make you feel better about the manual from Augusta, since the Soma Correct had to be taken off the market due to  FDA's disapproval of it for Peyronies Disease, Augusta did not make any corrections to the manual. This problem was brought to their attention early on and the above was the answer I got.

However, I agree with you that some effort should have been made to at least alert the guys that bought the Soma Correct that the times could be adjusted. It could have been possible that the development department of Augusta did not research this area well enough.

Anyway, you now have the better schedule to follow, so get back into the protocol from Week 1 and stay on a regular basis with daily use.

Hope this helps,

Old Man

[Angus]

  Just my two cents...
  The number of urologists in North America (and maybe the world) that even accept the VED as a viable treatment for Peyronies Disease can be counted on one hand, or maybe just a couple of fingers. The number of companies making suitable VED's for treatment (triple cylinder) are but one or two. The only written word that we had come across that was a protocol for treatment of Peyronies Disease was the 26 week protocol, then the FDA sat on that, so our only written word was squashed and removed.
  The reason we have no manual to read for Peyronies Disease treatment with the VED is... because we are writing it and it isn't finished yet. I know it's frustrating for new guys who find it so hard to bring all this information together with the type and brand of VED to get, the protocol (and how long to use it) together into a coherent, easy to understand format. The same thing can be said for traction and supplements. Everyone that is trying the VED, traction, supplements or a combination of these things along with other methods on the forum must keep posting their observations, results and thoughts on the forum, because we are it... we are the ones logging results and methods used to attain those results. So guys, keep up the protocol, read Old Mans suggestions, be safe and reasonable with your VED use, and above all, be patient. The VED protocol that worked for some of us is not a one or two month quick fix; in some cases the 26 week protocol must be repeated until any chance of results are seen. Every post you make with ideas, results, questions or thoughts becomes part of the overall makeup with what we are doing here... finding something that helps fix Peyronies Disease.
  Thanks to all of you who post! This is what makes our forum one of the best, if not the best, for help with Peyronies Disease.  

[Old Man]

Angus:

Great post! Could not have been said better. Yes, we all have to keep on keeping on until something in the medical field breaks for us.

Every contribution of any kind to this forum, be it either negative or positive, is what makes it for all.
Everyone should post their findings for the world to see.

Old Man

[AR]

Old Man, and Angus:

Just printed-out the new revised protocol.  Thank you both.  AR

[Old Man]

AR:

No problem, we should have done that a long time ago. I had this one in a folder on my computer. It crashed, but somehow we were able to restore a good portion of my files. Hope it work out for you.

Glad to be of service to all.

Old Man

[gnosis]

I'm looking at the Revised protocols of Spivey.  I've used the VED purchased from stockroom about 25 times mostly daily for about 20 minutes.  I have two things I don't understand in the protocols:
First I don't understand what is meant by "(2) engorge the penis filling the cylinder and hold a straight erection for 5 to 10 seconds". The pumping I do expands and engorges my penis but it has not created an erection; i.e. it has not created rigidity nor the feeling of erection.  While I have some difficulty with ED I get "erection", rigidity and the excitement with masturbation, fantasizing, sexual activity.  So when the protocol says, "engorge the penis filling the cylinder and hold a straight erection" are they meaning until the penis is engorged to the size of an erection or do they really mean erection with rigidity and I just haven't had that outcome of pumping, yet?

Second, they say (engorge the penis filling the cylinder).  With the 1.75inch cylinder, yes, with the engorgement (beyond normal erection size) the penis fills it.  But with the 2 inch, it won't really fill it ever.  

Third, The 2.25 seems too large to be having a different function from the 2".  My thought is that I should have a 1.5" tube for the A cyclinder, but I'm wondering if I'll have a problem with Cylinder A from the reports it can be too small and better to just drop it.   So a definition of B cylinder could be that the engorged penis can fill it and that it is larger than a normal erection with that engorgement? A definition of a C cyclinder might be that it cannot be filled???

[Tim468]

Gnosis,

I think that you are over thinking it.

If your penis is as filled up with blood and as stiff while in the chamber, then that is an "engorged erection". It not only does not have to be a spontaneous erection, associated with arousal, but it might even be better if it is not. When I start to get hard on my own, then I have trouble getting into the narrowest cylinder - too late!

I agree with the comment about the third or largest size. I think the idea is that the smallest is confining and limits the penis to longitudinal stretching primarily. The wider one allows for some bending but a straightening force is still applied. If one has a 80-90 degree bend, then a larger than your natural diameter tube will still be exerting a lot of straightening forces. But if you can rattle around in there, then the larger yet one does seem redundant to me too.

FWIW, I tend to only use the narrow tube for straightening forces, and less often use the wider one.

Tim

[Angus]

  I tended to use the small 1.5 inch cylinder much more than the medium and large sizes the more I used the protocol. I felt that more confining and stretching lengthwise in the small tube was doing more to correct the actual curve I had, while the larger tubes had less effect on the curve. I absolutely feel the larger tubes have a place in the therapy because they allow a full width erection, and this alternated with the smallest tube makes a well-rounded exercise with the two different forces alternated. My two cents.  

[Old Man]

gnosis:

I agree with Angus and Tim on the VED therapy sessions. Both positions have much merit in treating Peyronies Disease with the VED. The Spivey protocol is actually the one that was published by Augusta Medical for their Soma Correct VED when it first came on the market. FDA shut down the sales of the VED due to some quirk of the approval mechanism they adhere to for VEDs being used for Peyronies Disease. In it's place, Augusta made the newer model called Somaerect (sold only for ED therapy now) which is virtually one and the same as the Soma Correct model but does not include the protocol in the package.

The vacuumtherapy.org site simply took the Correct protocol and left out a good portion of the data which stated which cylinder to use in which week. I took the Augusta original protocol and re-typed it into a more manageable schedule with added notes at the bottom of the page. Look it up on the child boards thread under the VED highlights topic and scroll down to the bottom of that section and you will see the modified schedule highlighted in red for emphasis. Angus is due credit for setting this up on that topic and kudos to him for doing that.

I know that you are somewhat anxious to get some good results started as quickly as possible, but all of those on the forum using the VED have now realized that VED therapy works slowly. So, stick to the modified schedule, don't overpump the vacuum pressure and above all, have patience with yourself and just keep doing the exercises. Again, I must state that patience is the watchword in vacuum therapy. We are all here to help, so feel free to ask any and all questions about VED usage.

Old Man

[Iceman]

old man:

ead your post to Angus relative the source of VEDs. They are available off the web from many sources as well as from some urology groups that carry them for their patients. In addition, there are many available over the counter. However, when selecting a VED, remember that you get what you pay for. I highly recommend, if you decide to use a VED, that you get a better medical quality one and not the "sex toy" models that are touted everywhere these days.

Before recommending a source for you, need to know your physical location (country) so that sources can be suggested. So, let us know where you reside and we can go from there.

Im from australia...

[Tim468]

IceMan,

I'm thinking that Old Man already knows where to get a good VED - was this post directed to someone else?

Actually, Old Man is so old he was around before there was even acrylic plastic.

Tim

[Old Man]

Tim:

Thanks for the vote of confidence on my age!! Yes, I will be 79 later this summer. Plastic was definitely not around during the 1930s. The 1940s saw some early versions of it being used in the military. Today, we cannot live without it.

Yep, I am old, but still enjoy a good chase around the bedroom when I can get the wife of 45 years willing!! I work out at the Y three times a week for a cardio vascular session of about 45 minutes to an hour. My cholesterol count stays around the 125 mark with both LDL and HDL staying in the low range all the time.


Regards, Old Man

[Old Man]

Iceman:

OK, now that I know where you live, I can steer you to a source of VEDs of medical quality in the Down Under land. Go to this website:
www.augustams.com  on line, make your inquiry to the attention of Louis in Sales and Marketing.

There is one other person in your country that has bought one of their VEDs through a local source. I think that what will be recommended for you is to buy the OTC Vitality manual model and purchase the two extra smaller cylinders. It is designed primarily for ED, but it works well for Peyronies Disease when you have all three cylinders. Some health insurances will help pay for the unit if it is prescribed by a doctor for ED, so look into that angle also.

Anyway, ask Augusta about the source in your country as I know that they have one there. If you need me to contact the company for you, just let me know and I will help.

Regards, Old

PS: Be sure to read my post back to Tim about age.

[MUSICMAN]

I'm sure that "Old Man" will give a reply but input from other would
be of help also.  With the use of the VED, would you say that if a
improvement in made, it would be girth first and then bend/hourglass?
Maybe a little of both over the time? The reason for the question is that
I seem to have some improvment with girth but not with the bend.

[Old Man]

MM:

You will probably see improvement in both girth and length before the indentations, plaque or nodules go away. Sometimes, you even get straight again before those symptoms begin to recede. It takes time for those to give any indications of "repair" so to speak. Some never go away, they just resist all efforts with oral meds, VED and other treatments.

So, bottom line, you just have to use patience and keep up a daily schedule of exercises. If you are using both traction and the VED, you must maintain a regular schedule of both and not skip any days if at all possible.

Old Man

[Angus]

   Everything Old Man said (the Before Plastic Old Man   ) plus re-affirmation... the indentations are tough and for me, remain. the only thing that makes sense is the indentation or scar tissue remains after plaque goes away, and all that remains is cavernosa tissue that cannot inflate anymore. I think it can be re-molded with the VED and/or traction, but I don't think it's inflationary ability can be restored. I'm not a physiologist but that's the only thing that makes sense to me. Tim? Mr. Before Plastics   ? Thoughts?  

[Old Man]

Angus:

I think that you are right on with your comments about the indentations, nodules, etc. Once the tissue has lost its (OEM) original elasticity, there is little chance of its recovery. Maybe, with the new research in collagen and stem cells we might see something in the distant future to help with restoration of damaged tissue.

For now, I guess we will have to settle for any kind of therapy that we can find that helps our symptoms. As you all know, VED exercises did the trick for me. Most of my indentations and other symptoms seems to have been reversed. I do keep a weekly schedule of therapy with the VED as a precautionary measure. It has worked so far.

Old Man

[MUSICMAN]

In reply to Old Man & Angus I was of the understanding that "Plaque and Scar
Tissue" was more or less the same. The body trying to protect itself by repairing
a wound. I did not think the plaque or scar tissue goes away as you say but
only streaches or softens. My plaque  ( lumps ) are larger and harder today than
they ever have been. When I first noticed the hourglass I did not have any plaque.  The hourglass was on the left and I bent to the left. NOW it seems that
the plaque is more on top of shaft or somewhat to the right but I still have the
bend to the left. I know I started this in the VED section and maybe if continued
should be moved.  Need more input!                         Musicman

[Ptolemy]

Tim:

Thanks for the vote of confidence on my age!! Yes, I will be 79 later this summer. Plastic was definitely not around during the 1930s. The 1940s saw some early versions of it being used in the military. Today, we cannot live without it.

Yep, I am old, but still enjoy a good chase around the bedroom when I can get the wife of 45 years willing!! I work out at the Y three times a week for a cardio vascular session of about 45 minutes to an hour. My cholesterol count stays around the 125 mark with both LDL and HDL staying in the low range all the time.


Regards, Old Man

I love this message. Keeps us all young and optimistic.

At the rate you're going Old Man, someone will have to beat you to death otherwise you'll go on forever!

[Old Man]

Ptolemy:

Just two words:  I WISH!!!!!

[Tim468]

Actually, I was hoping to start a lot of "Old Man is so old..." jokes.

I think that dents do not come out because mechanically it is hard to pull them out, just like a car dent. We cannot get a grip on them, so to speak. Now, it seems that linear pulling may stretch it all out (all the tissue in a line), and relieve a bend. If dents do not come out, then that suggests to me that when we apply a stretch (ie in the narrow cylinder) that more "normal" tissue is being stretched, and that is where you gain back some length (and in the process lose the angulation). Perhaps everything *except* the scar is stretched - but it does not matter if you lose the angle. But I could see how the dent remains.

It is my belief that the larger cylinders that should stretch a penis in the width do not apply nearly as much force as the smaller cylinder does on the length.

Tim

[Ptolemy]

MUSICMAN, if I remember correctly you've been using the VED for only about 3 months. That probably isn't enough time to assess VED impact. I've been on the VED for 1 year and 3 months and although I believe it is helpful, there is no way I can be sure. Like you, today my plaque is larger than it has ever been. I'm not sure about the density, but I imagine it to be softer.

On the upside, I have less bend now than when the bend maxed, reaching close to 90 degrees. At least I can have sex now. I'm using Traction as well and length has recovered some but I'm still 1 inch or more shorter.

I am concerned that the plaque will continue to grow. On the other hand, maybe the plaque is stretching because of the VED and Traction. Bottom line IMO is that whatever is happening to the plaque would be worse if I was doing nothing. So I'll keep at it until my penis falls off in my hand I guess.