VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices

[Angus]

  J, welcome back. I'm with O. Man on duration of cycles being shorter and more numerous. Keeping a vacuum on for 30 uninterrupted minutes would be asking for trouble. I used several cycles of a few minutes each per session. And for myself, 26 weeks wasn't near enough time for treatment; I used the ved for over a year to see an acceptable correction. I use it occasionally for maintenance now with good results. Again, welcome back. I enjoyed your posts in the past and look forward to more of them!

[nemo]

I use a VED (one five-minute pump once a day (more or less)) and once I ran out of the lube/gel that comes with the pump (the Osbon Esteem, by the way), I started using aloe vera, the kind that comes in a big hand pump dispenser.  It's quick and easy and works just as good as the Osbon stuff.  Plus, the hand dispenser is no mess.

Good luck,
Nemo

[j]

Thanks all.

Liquid hand soap (pump dispensed) works pretty well, at least for 5-10 minutes,  and washes out of the cylinder quickly.

[Liam]

In this case, cheaper is better.  I can see no reason to use an expensive lube when either of the two alternatives just mentioned work fine.  

[Old Man]

j, Nemo and Liam:

You should be extremely careful in using the liquid hand soap solution as a lubricant while using the VED. I know from experience that if you use one that has a high detergent content, you will over time damage the surface skin layer and cause the skin to become irritated. This happened to me while using the Osbon Esteem VED which is much "looser fitting" than the Soma Correct or Erect VEDs. Maybe using one that has an additive for irritated skin surfaces would work best.

The relatively cheap Equate personal lubricant from Wal Mart has done a very good job for me throughout the years. The Osbon lubricant is no better and the cost is extremely high.

Have not tried the aloe vera, but it appears that it would not cause any damage to the skin. Have used the plant juice for treating burns and it worked well for that.

The above is just my observations through past usage of the liquid soap, etc.

Regards to all, Old Man

[j]

Some guys have suggested shaving cream, which sounds reasonable, since it's formulated to be used every day.

Does something like Equate rinse out of the cylinder easily?

[Angus]

   Astroglide seems to stay wet longer so that's my preference. It takes only a dab to slick things up, and it's water soluable so the VED rinses quickly with a bottle brush. A 5 oz. bottle is around $10 US at Walgreens. From experience, I would stay away from soaps and certainly shaving creams. I tried some body lotion that contains olive oil; it makes a good lube but is hard to rinse out of the tube, so I'm sticking with Astroglide. The Equate brand is in fact cheaper and stays wet almost as long as Astroglide; there is little difference between the two. Both are water based and rinse out quickly. When you use a VED every day for over a year you get a bit picky with your lubricant  

[Old Man]

j:

I forgot to mention in my PM to you about the lube that Angus uses. It is the "Cadillac" of lubes, just a little pricey for old folks on a limited income. As he said, the two are almost equal in their lube qualities and both clean up easily with water. The Equate is just not quite as large a container as his.

Just experiment with various lubes until you find one that suits you best.  At any rate though, use plenty lube when using the VED to prevent any damage to the skin.

IMHO, shaving cream, liquid hand soap and other cosmetics could damage the skin. Since that area of the body is real sensitive, I would want the softest lube available.

Regards, Old Man

[Kimo]

I agree with Angus that astroglide is the best but you guys are paying too much for it...I get it at walmart for around 6.00 bucks....I use it a lot and it is the best there is....I'm not using it for a VED tho,,just for sex.  

kimo

[whygodwhy]

hey all, im new to the board, but i've had peyronies for as long as i can remember (almost 10 years)

anyway, i was wondering if anyone had tried or had any success only using only the smallest cylinder (1.5 inch)
since im only about 5 degrees to the left, the larger cyclinders don't seem to do anything for the bend.  im 2 months in the 26week soma correct protocol but was considering only using the small cylinder from here on out since my erections look better on days i use the small one

[Hawk]

Why,

Few men on earth have a penis that does not deviate 5 degrees in some direction.  That is almost imperceptible.  


is there more to the story?

[Old Man]

Why:

I am with Hawk on his comment about the 5 degree deviation. Have never seen any evidence that all men's penises are straight. Almost all have some degree of bend/curve in some direction.

Now, a note about the VED therapy: If you are going to use the 26 week protocol, IMHO, you should follow the exact course laid out therein. Using only the small cylinder does not allow the protocol to do "its work" for you. It was designed to give the penile chambers a complete workout. So, bottom line, it is my recommendation that you continue to use all three cylinders (if you have the three cylinder model VED) and not give in to the small cylnder.

Observation: I believe the reason you see a straighter erection immediately after using the small cylinder is because the penis is confined in it to a very straight position and it will retain that shape for a short period of time after using the VED.

Good luck to you on your therapy and keep it up on a regullar daily basis as called for in the 26 week protocol.

Old Man

[MUSICMAN]

I have had Peyronie's for about a year and a half. Only real treatment
being the vitimin E.  I think I would like to try the Multi-Cylinder vacuum
therapy. I believe the model needed is the Soma Correct.  When I went
to the website it shows the model as being discontuned. Where can I
get the three cylinder unit. I maybe wrong about the above information
so please advise.   Musicman

[Steve]

MusicMan,

I'm sure that Old Man will chime in (he's our resident VED guru), but Osbon replaced the Soma Correct with the Soma Erect.  I don't think that there is any difference between the units (OM will clarify).  As I recall, they had to change the name as the 'Correct' model was originally marketed to correct Peyronies Disease, but they hadn't obtained the FDA approvals, and had to retract all statements to that effect.

Good Luck

Steve

[Old Man]

MusicMan:

OK, from your name, I am guessing that you are affiliated with music in some manner. My whole family plays the piano and my wife teaches at a local university.

Now, about VEDs. The Soma Correct was pulled from the market by the makers due to some conflict with the FDA approvals, etc. They also had a problem with a minor "pinching" problem with the sizing inserts.

Therefore, they introduced a replacement VED for the Soma which is named Erect. It is sold solely under the approval for ED, not Peyronies Disease. However, it is basically one and the same unit. The Soma came with a 26 week therapy protocol. The Erect comes only with the accessories for ED. The Erect can be used for Peyronies Disease equally as well as the Soma for Peyronies Disease though.

So, bottom line, if you desire to try the VED therapy, you can obtain the 26 week protocol on this forum or it is available from the Birmingham, AL Urology group who is conducting a study using the three cylinder VED. That site's website address is posted elsewhere on this forum under the compiled posts in the child board listings.

I also have the protocol stored on my computer and if you have trouble finding it on the forum, here, give me an email address and I will email it to you when you are ready, etc. Will be glad to help in any manner.

Old Man

[whygodwhy]

Why,

Few men on earth have a penis that does not deviate 5 degrees in some direction.  That is almost imperceptible.  


is there more to the story?

...is that really true?  i would think that most guys point upwards a little or maybe downwards, but to the left or right?  i find that hard to believe.  what is really average?  how about 10 degrees?

i remember not curving left or downward at all when i was like 12, but i pointed upwards a little bit.  that is what im trying to get back to!!!!

anyway, my curvature used to be worse.  Can't say how bad exactly cause i took no picture.  i think jelquing helped

now i am between 5 and 10 degrees to the left and point downwards 20 degrees (doest really curve, it just slopes).
i had an ultrasound done recently which identified scarring, but they said it wasn't calcified.  is it possible the scar has been remodeled as much as it can be, but if that were true wouldn't nothing be identifiable on the ultrasound?  im not sure how that works

i don't have pain but i am considering surgery as a last resort cause it bothers me a lot.  but only if nothing else i try works.  im hoping VED will eliminate all curvature/deviation.  im also using topical verapimil and am considering injections despite mostly negative comments on it

the urologist who diagnosed my condition as Peyronies also perscribed the pump and the verapamil.  but i saw another urologist who said he thought i should stop using the pump because it might make the condition worse.  im pretty confused now!!  im wondering if i still have Peyronies Disease or if its just scarring, im not really sure about the difference...

[Hawk]

I am not sure I follow you.  You say you slope down but not curve or bend down.  Is that just a bit of a slope from lack of firmness in erection?  Can you easily lift it so it slopes upward in that state?  If so, then as you say, that is not a Peyronies Disease curve because the shaft of the penis is not curved down.

As J once said to a member many months ago, "most guys here would consider themselves cured if the had a 10 degree bend"  I pretty much agree with that.  I am puzzled as to why you would consider surgery for such a slight bend that could never interfere with intercourse?  For starters, no ethical surgeon in the world would even consider you a candidate for surgery if I am understanding your condition.  Intercourse has to pretty much be impossible or greatly compromised (greater than a 30 degree bend).  Even if someone did consider you a candidate, it is very difficult to comprehend a man risking a totally functional penis to something a radical as penile surgery for cosmetic reasons.

I think it is important to resolve this understanding or misunderstanding prior to pursuing any treatment.  I think treatment requires a well identified problem, a clear set of objectives and expectations, and an accurate assessment of the possible treatment risks.

[Old Man]

why:

I have had extensive experience in the use of VEDs by many men in my prostate cancer support group as well others on the web. Have personally worked with quite a number of these guys. So far, none have reported any serious problems with VED usage.

About the only item that has been reported is a few having used too much pressure and developed a swelling or redness of the skin, etc. The VED does not always work for everybody, but for most they do see at least some improvement in their condition.

However, VED is a personal choice and one must make up their own mind about using them. Any VED protocol must be approached with a positive attitude. It does take time to see any results and there will be no overnight recovery as some think can happen. Peyronies Disease usually comes on slowly and most probably will go away slowly if at all.

Old Man

[whygodwhy]

old man - have you heard of cases where the curvature was completely eliminated?  down to 0 degrees curvature?  what were your personal results for using a VED?  what angle of curvature were you left with?

[j]

There used to be a web site that was all about pictures of penises.  Sounds ridiculous but in a way, it was valuable as it gave some real perspective on the very large range of variation in this equipment. All sorts of bends and curves were shown, none of which impeded anyone's function.  I think the site went away at some point.

If someone is worrying about a 5 degree variation, I'd say either they're not expressing themselves accurately in terms of a measured angle, or they're just very anxious about themselves, physically, for some reason. 5 degrees is nothing. Really. Nothing.  I had a very noticeable leftward bend all my adullt life probably 10-15 degrees, decades before I got Peyronie's (and Dupuytren's).  I gave it no thought and it was no problem whatsoever.

It's certainly possible that a 5-degree bend is caused by Peyronie's, rather than being simply a natural asymmetry.  I don't mean to be dismissive of anyone's concern, but if a 5 degree bend is what you're worrying about, then - quite worrying. Just go out and live.

[Liam]

anyway, my curvature used to be worse.  Can't say how bad exactly cause i took no picture.  i think jelquing helped

OK I was not going to chime in.  But, that has my crap detector going off.  "Jelqing" ... the whole idea is ridiculous.  No way can it help Peyronies Disease.  It might "break" your penis and make it worse.

[Old Man]

why:

I won't say that my curve/bend all went away, but today there is little evidence of any curve over and above what I had naturally before Peyronies Disease. There was always the slight upward curve when erect. However, that has almost been eliminated due to a radical prostatectomy in 1995. Since there are no more natural erections, I can not observe that that anymore

j: The webe site you are referring to is still up and running, it is:

www.ejacu.com/    

It shows hundreds of free pictures of penises in all sizes, shapes and forms. Some pictures could be considered "off color", but they do represent a cross section of what penises can and do look like, etc.

Old Man

[Steve]

Old Man, Thanks for posting the site. I think the most important information for whygodwhy is found on the home page with the statement:

Did you know?
Over 30% of men report their penis as bent or curved to the left or right. Another 45% of men report an upward or downward curvature. Unique qualities like this are totally natural. The curvature is not caused by certain types of underwear or masturbation positions. Masturbating the penis does not change its shape or size. A curve or bend is simply a natural variation, and there is nothing wrong with that.

[soxfan]

anyway, my curvature used to be worse.  Can't say how bad exactly cause i took no picture.  i think jelquing helped

OK I was not going to chime in.  But, that has my crap detector going off.  "Jelqing" ... the whole idea is ridiculous.  No way can it help Peyronies Disease.  It might "break" your penis and make it worse.

You are incorrect, Liam, jelqing is no more dangerous than the ved or traction devices. It does work, but takes time and care like anything else.

Cheers.

[Liam]

This is from a site dedicated to "male enhancement" (not exactly speaking against it).

Jelqing (also known as milking) is an exercise designed to force large amounts of blood through the penis, increasing the internal pressure and creating controlled damage or micro-tears in the structure of the penis. This damage will be mostly repaired overnight but overworking or not taking rest days will reduce efficacy. The effects can be to increase length or girth or a combination of the two.

Source: http://penis-enlargement-manual.thundersplace.org/how-to-jelq.html

Micro tears = Micro trauma  :::alarm sounds:::

Just in case the old hand is not enough, you can get a JD (jelqing device) (NOT KIDDING).



Don't click to enlarge.  I just linked to the thumbnail to save space.


Y'all go ahead if you want.   But, not me .

[Hawk]

Liam,

I certainly have my misgivings about jelging especially in the hands of (no pun intended) those obsessed with increasing natural penis size.  Building internal stretching pressure with blood however is exactly what a VED does.  At least one guy on this forum claimed that prior to Peyronies Disease his girl friend "popped" his penis trying to see how big she could stretch it (even after he yelled STOP) with a battery powered VED.  

I trust a VED is more controlled
more uniform pressure
quality ones have safety limits on the amount of vacuum pressure

However, they force blood to fill and stretch the tissue.  The degree is up to the user - "Helpful" or "Hurtful"
I think the same must be true of jelging

I think the stigma comes from the group that uses it.  This was also the case, first with VED's, and then with traction.

[Liam]

VEDs create negative pressure allowing blood to flow into the penis filling the chambers.  

Jelqing (at its best) moves blood already in the penis.  No "new" blood enters the penis.  It actually squeezes blood out of tissue at the base in favor of forcing it to the glans (head).  DANGEROUS!!!

I can see no benefits.  Sorry.  I'm not trying to offend.  The facts just seems obvious.

BTW, this post only represents my studied opinion.  Read and reread all the info out there.  Decide for yourself.  I just can't imagine why a group of guys who have discussed micro trauma's role in Peyronies Disease would intentionally inflict repeated trauma to an already diseased penis.

I agree about the stigma with the groups.  There are, however, reputable doctors recommending VEDs (and traction).  I can't say the same for jelqing.  How would they write orders for it?

[Hawk]

Liam,

I find this discussion interesting.

I have an open mind on this and I want to make it clear I am not advocating jelqing or the VED for that matter.  I am sure you could search and find some speculation that VED's increase size through micro trauma, and that you could also find information suggesting that jelquing increases size by applying slow gentle stretching and remolding pressure to erectile tissue.  My point is that because some possible dope theorized it works through micro trauma is hardly evidence that:
A - It works at all
B - It involves micro trauma
C- that it works differently than a VED as far as internal pressure on the tissue is concerned
D- That it is safer or more dangerous than a VED or Traction

That fact of whether the blood applying the pressure to the penis is, arterial blood drawn in, or venous blood forced to back flow into the penis, or saline infused directly to the carvernosa, has no bearing on the character of the stretching force.  The stretching force is caused by fluid filling the chambers to capacity because there is less pressure in the chambers (or part of the chambers) than in the surrounding area.  This is either caused by decreasing the surrounding pressure with vacuum or increasing pressure through arterial dilation (natural erection), or increasing pressure by by shifting the blood from one area to the other with constriction.

Remember that many men have experienced blood spots, testicle entrapment, edema, and other issues from over aggressive or improper VED use.  At least one made a strong case for having his penis pop with significant damage from a VED.  Making the point it is possible to injure yourself with jelqing does not make the point in my mind that jelqing works differently or that it cannot be done safely.  I would need an explanation as to why the pressure was greater or less tolerated than the pressure on the tissue from other methods.

[Liam]

Why take the chance?  Do some risk assessment.  The risks outweigh the seemingly small possibility of benefit.

I do agree their is a certain amount of risk involved with everything.

C- that it works differently than a VED as far as internal pressure on the tissue is concerned

The pressure is on the head of the penis.  If the plaque/area of concern is toward the base, blood is constantly being forced away from it and the area is being squeezed over and over.  This seems counterintuitive.

[Hawk]

The pressure is on the head of the penis.  If the plaque/area of concern is toward the base, blood is constantly being forced away from it and the area is being squeezed over and over.  

I think we understand the entire technique differently.  It can be squeezed gently and held.  The VED puts significant pressure on the glans. In fact that is usually where the any blood dots develop with VED use. Keep in mind, the man with the penis has direct control over the amount of pressure whether VED or jelqing.  It can be gentle pressure and hold, or damaging pressure in short intense rapid sequence.  The method is not what dictates that.

IF the plaque is in the very base I agree that it would be very counter intuitive.  The only chance it would work is if the plaque was somewhere in the end 2/3rds of the shaft.

I just have to reject the suggestion that jelging has to be damaging, high pressure, short and repetitive or that the VED is always used with proper pressure, slowly, and safely.

[Old Man]

Note to all:

Enjoyed the previous discussions relative jelqing, VED and traction. IMHO, using any of these methods of therapy for Peyronies Disease has to be done with caution and with an informed mind.

I have been opposed to using a battery powered VED all along. Don't remember if I have had any discussion against its use in the past. But, I am formally advocating against its use for Peyronies Disease therapy. The battery powered model will in most cases cause an excessive pressure long before you can produce that amount with a manual unit. No matter how hard one tries, the battery model can not be controlled as well as the manual model.

The manual model can be stopped at any point in the stroke of the lever therefore eliminating any chance of overpumping. I have cautioined in most every post about the VED that one do no OVERPUMP THE PRESSURE, and also I have stated that if pain or discomfort is experienced with using the VED, to release the pressure at once before starting over. Caution is the watchword for using the VED for Peyronies Disease as well as ED.

The above is just my observations over the past 12 plus years of successful VED use.

Old Man

[Liam]

Old Man - I agree 100% with what you said about avoiding the battery powered pump.

Hawk - I forgot to mention the dangers of carpel tunnel syndrome.  

OK I'll concede.  If someone can be very careful on every stroke and caress his member with the touch of butterfly wings........wait thats from my wife's romance novel.  I don't think that can be called therapy .

At least we all agree that CAUTION is the word.

Liam

[Hawk]

I enjoyed our "Point / Counter point"  

[Liam]

Hawk,

If you start your next post with, "Liam, you ignorant sl*t", I'll start calling you Dan.

Old SNL reference

[shrout]

Hi all

I'm into my second week of using a VED.. Soma Correct, and I'm not sure I'm doing it right. I've read much of the thread and as a result I'm doing my very best not to overpump, as this seems to be the big no no. On the other hand I don't want to waste my time by not pumping enough. Is that possible?

At the moment I get to a point where I can begin to feel the pressure on the skin all around the penis. This is usually after about 5 pumps on the handle. Is that the time to stop? Once or twice I've gone beyond that and had a bit of pain after, although it's gone away eventually ( a few hours ). Could I have caused more damage?  And the skin is always reddish/purple when I've done the exercise, but reverts quickly to normal with no bruising.  It seems like there might be a fine line between getting the maximum therapeutic effect and causing damage. Perhaps that's not the case.

Secondly, I've a question about lubricant. I'm aware of my limited supply and the expense.
Can anyone recommend a cheap alternative available in the UK? I've had a look for the Aloe Vera gel in a hand pump mentioned by Nemo but no luck as yet.

Many thanks in advance. Hoping you can help with both or either.  

[Liam]

Shrout,

Sounds like you're stopping at the right time.

Try the suntan section for the aloe gel pump.  I use the same stuff after I've been in the sun

Liam

[whygodwhy]

why:

but today there is little evidence of any curve over and above what I had naturally before Peyronies Disease. There was always the slight upward curve when erect.

what angle where u left with, what do you mean by slight?

i took some pictures of myself and measured them with a protractor.  turns out i am a little under 15 degrees to the left and 20 degrees downward.  the angle i had before was just from holding a protractor up to myself

can the pump improve past 15 degrees curvature?  or is that when it sort of it tops out?

has anyone who used the pump gotten all curvature to go away that existed before Peyronies Disease symptoms???
can the pump return me to 0 degrees or i am about as good as the pump is going to get it?

what have others results been?


will the pump still eliminate curvature if i fon't have calcified plaque but just scar tissue ?(not sure if thats still considered plaque)  the pump still remodels the scar tissue, right?

[Angus]

Hi all

...On the other hand I don't want to waste my time by not pumping enough. Is that possible?

At the moment I get to a point where I can begin to feel the pressure on the skin all around the penis. This is usually after about 5 pumps on the handle. Is that the time to stop? Once or twice I've gone beyond that and had a bit of pain after, although it's gone away eventually ( a few hours ). Could I have caused more damage?  And the skin is always reddish/purple when I've done the exercise, but reverts quickly to normal with no bruising.  It seems like there might be a fine line between getting the maximum therapeutic effect and causing damage. Perhaps that's not the case...

  Hi and welcome, Shrout. Don't think so much in terms of maximum theraputic effect per session. With the VED, "more is less" rings true here. "If a little bit of vacuum is good then a whole lot of vacuum must be better" logic does not fly here. Don't go that extra pump that causes some pain.. just stop at the 5 pumps or whatever is comfortable for you. The best theraputic effect is going to come from a disciplined approach to regular VED use. From what you say, you probably didn't cause any more damage; just take it easy on the pumps, and if you want maximum theraputic effect go for a comfortable vacuum level per session and regular use of the VED... don't skip too many days, if any. The VED is a type of physical therapy, and like any physical therapy, a regular administration of it will have a more likely chance of producing results. You're going to be fine... stick with it and let us know how things go.


Angus

[Old Man]

why:

I agree with Angus. Do not overpump as he says. More is not better since you can do further damage by using too much pressure, etc.

You asked about my curve/bend at the present time. Since I cannot achieve a natural erection, I cannot measure the amount or degree of curve/bend. I can only achieve an erection by using the VED, and when it is erect then by using the retainers rings, my penis stands straight out from my body with no hinge effect or curve/bend. I do curve upward in what is called the U curve which I have had since birth.

You just have to keep up the daily exercise therapy sessions to see you can achieve some positive results. It take time and patience to get something going for you. So, bottom line, don't get impatient, but keep a positive attitude to it all.

Old Man

[shrout]

Many thanks Angus/Liam/OM

I'll look upon it more as a therapy session, as you advise Angus, rather than a stretching exercise, which is how I was tending to think of it. That's most useful.

I'll let you know as and when (if  ) changes begin to take place.

[newguy]

IF the plaque is in the very base I agree that it would be very counter intuitive.  The only chance it would work is if the plaque was somewhere in the end 2/3rds of the shaft.

My bend is slightly less than half way up. From reading your comments are you of the opinion that using a VED would not be helpful in my case?

[Steve]

NewGuy,
I'm sure that the '2/3' figure was given for 'jelqing', not using the VED.
Jelqing (as I understand it) consists of squeezing and forcing the blood from the base up toward the Glans, resulting in stretching and extra blood in the top 1/3 or so of the penis.
The use of the VED however results in engorgement/stretching and extra blood in the entire penis (except of course the portion that's inside the body cavity).
So, think of Jelqing as (possibly) helping the top 1/3, but VED helping the entire penis...personally, I vote for (and have been using) the VED!
Steve

[Liam]

Yes, comments related to jelqs.

[Bentrick]

OK, I've been doing iontophoresis with Verapamil and dexamethasonefor about two months - but only intermittently - and have had a VED - Osbon erectaid manual - for about two weeks.. It is easy to use But I need some help!!

I can pull the vacuum to a mildly uncomfortable level easily -- How long should I keep it at the bearable plaque stretching sensation - and then how many repititions.  I have been doing four or five 30 second stretches at a sitting, twice a day.  I am viewing this as long term therapy not as a quick fix.  Any suggestions on the proper regimen... I have searched the archives andthis thread and cannot find the VED protocal.  Thanks -- it really is helpful to be doing something and having this resourece for advice.    Oh yeah - planning to start the pentox too.

[Tim468]

I don't think anyone knows what an optimal time is. However, some thoughts (and details).

I apply a stretch/vacuum while in the bath in the evening. I like that heat has a relaxing effect on me and that includes making application of a vacuum more comfortable and easy. I now almost exclusively use soap as my lubricant (I use a shallow bath so that when I recline the penis is no longer under water)and apply an initial vacuum that brings me to "half mast". I use the cylinder applied vacuum in a gentle milking motion to bring blood into the shaft and I do this for about 3-5 minutes. I find I have to periodically relax the vacuum to readjust (ie sometimes some scrotum gets pulled up into the cylinder). During this initial period, there is a general and gradual increase in penis size - if I just applied the vacuum and left it, I would not get the full benefit.

After getting to, um, "full mast", I apply a vacuum of about  minus 200 mm Hg and leave it (I detach the vacuum device) and relax in the bath. I periodically relax and reapply the vacuum about every five minutes. This time frame lasts from 5 to 20 minutes. During this time period, I usually see no more lengthening of my penis in the cylinder. If I go significantly longer, I tend to see edema on the end which lasts for about 30 more minutes after stopping.

You can leave the vacuum on for longer than 30 seconds, but a brief ten second release now and then seems to keep blood flow fresher (or so it seems to most of us who do it and discuss it).

Tim

[Old Man]

Bentrick:

I want to add my 2 cents to Tim's approach to the VED length of time, etc. My VED therapy for Peyronies Disease was with the Osbon Esteem manual model. Not sure of which model you are referring to in your post, so if you would give us the exact model you have, is it the Erecaid Classic or the Erecaid Esteem model?

Have worked up a regimen for many guys using both of the Osbon models of VEDs and would be glad to assist you with your protocol if you so desire. List the exact model you have and I would be glad to work up a regimen for you. Actually, the system I used is very simple and does not cause pain or discomfort if used properly and in moderation as all of us have found using the VEDs.

Look forward to hearing back from you.

Old Man.

[Bentrick]

Thanks for the feedback.  I have the Esteem manual model which is very easy to control.  I just need a workable program.  All suggestions are appreciated!

[Old Man]

Bentrick:

OK, the Esteem manual model is the one that I used. It took a little over 6 months to get it back like it was before Peyronies Disease.

It would be best for me to give you my regimen in a PM rather than here. I have listed it somewhere on here before, probably is now on one of the recap threads under the Child Boards.

Will send you a PM sometime soon.

Old Man

[whygodwhy]

OK, I've been doing iontophoresis with Verapamil and dexamethasonefor about two months - but only intermittently - and have had a VED

im just curious about iontophoresis and dexamethasone since ive never heard of either.  are they creams, pills?  did a urologist perscribe them or did you hear about them on the internet?  had any luck with either?

ive been on VED for a little over two months, i hold for 10 seconds then release - for 10 cycles.  not sure if this is the best method but its what the salesman for the soma correct said yeilded the best results.  thats how long i hold for...

[Hawk]

im just curious about iontophoresis and dexamethasone since ive never heard of either.  are they creams, pills?  did a urologist perscribe them or did you hear about them on the internet?  had any luck with either?

Iontophoresis is in the TITLE of one of our forum topics.

If you take time to learn the search feature or read our "Just Diagnosed - Forum Highlights" you will see there is a ton of information readily available on this forum.