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Author Topic: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices  (Read 734585 times)

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Hawk

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2005, 06:54:20 PM »

Will,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for contributing with your post.

I will let Old Man and others with more experience than I reply to you about the VED.  There is one area that I cannot remain silent on however..  All evidence from the timing, to the exact location of the plaque, to studies on papaverine and penile plaque all convince me my Peyronies Disease was caused by injections for Erectile Dysfunction.  Evidence suggests that beyond the impact of the needle prick is papaverine itself.  It is a component of both bimix and trimix and reportedly carries a higher incidence of penile plaque than some other injections such as Caverject.

Personally, I would try every Erectile Dysfunction option known to man before I tried injections.  If I tried injections I would try everything before I tried papaverine
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Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

Joshua

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2005, 09:54:23 PM »

Old Man:
Any special considerations when using the VED to improve indentions?
Thanks and best wishes.
Joshua
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2005, 03:13:08 PM »

Will:
I have a Soma Corrrct VED that is currently being tested and evaluated for the Augusta Medical Systems. The recommended procedure for it's use is the 26 week regimen that comes with the unit. However, one can adapt different ways of using it even after doing the prescribed exercise for any given day.

After using the Soma for about 4 months now, I have learned a trick or two that can be applied by anyone when using the Soma. If you want to, you can just use all three cylinders and only pump enough pressure to get a good tight seal. Then, pull the entire assembly in and out on your penile shaft which is sort of like milking a cow's teat with a milking machine. Some pressure will naturally drop off, so keep adding enough to keep a good seal while doing the action. It takes a little practice, but after several tries it becomes second nature. What this does is applies varying amounts pressure and in turn forces more blood in and out of the affected area. I did this in addition to the regular exercises.

Along with the Soma Correct as well as the Osbon Esteem exercises that I use, I took large doses of vitamin E for several months. Currently, I am taking only 400 I.U.s a day at the dinner meal along with my regular senior citizen vitamins. If you do elect to use high E dosages, you must get your blood monitored for toxicity frequently to preclude a toxic build up.

Overall, using the Osbon Esteem manual VED, it took me about 6 months to eliminate a 45 degree downward and to the right cuver. A very slight indentation where the plaque was located remains, but causes no problem with erections produced with the Osbon Esteem VED.

If you have further questions, just let me know and I will endeavor to answer them for you.

Regards, Old Man
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2005, 03:17:04 PM »

Joshua:

Read my reply to Will below. This procedure will work very well with both the Soma Correct and the Osbon Esteem. It could also work with any other VED provided that you have a way to control the pressure, etc.

The milking action worked best for me with the Osbon Esteem with only one cylinder because it allows one to get a good seal near the immediate area of the indentation. Working the varying degrees of pressure causes the blood to flow the same way and in turn helps with better flow especially after repeated use of the exercise.

Hope this helps, but if you have other questions, let me know.

Regards, Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

Will

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2005, 05:52:56 PM »

Old Man...thanks for the information...I will try this "milking procedure" beginning tonite.  Does it require more lube, such as lubing the entire cylinder?  Also, this Soma Lube gets pretty expensive... is there any other lube that I can buy in a regular store that will suffice, and also save me some money?  Should it be totally waterbased?  If you use something other than soma lube, what do you use?  Also...do you perform the regular session with the soma (from the pamplet) for the 10 pumps, and then afterward do the "milking procedure?"  Thank you so much for the help....


Will
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2005, 07:08:12 PM »

Will:
Yes, do the milking exercises right after doing the Soma protocol. You should lube the entire length of the shaft liberally so that the cylinders will slip back and forth without friction. You have to lube the Soma cylinders well up into them to prevent the penis from "sticking" on the walls, etc. You will soon learn the right amount of lube after a few tries. Start off with a small amount and add lube until you feel comfortable with the right amount that lets you do the exercise without being too tight or rouch, etc. The cylinder must slip back and forth with difficulty while maintaining the vacuum pressure, etc.

I use a water based lube that is available at any WalMart or similar type store. It is an Equate labeled product (personal lubricaant) that comes in a new type container with a large flip top opening. It runs around $2.00 per tube and is just as good as the Soma or the Osbon lube. I have never used the company brands since I started using the VED in 1995.

Keep us up to date on how things are going for you. If you need further help, just let us know.

Sincerely, Old Man

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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #56 on: November 01, 2005, 12:38:31 AM »


Hi Old Man, Its Steven, I have written to you several times in the past, finally decided to use the VED to get rid of an 15 - 20 degree curve, indentation that won't go away, is this the correct Osboom device on this page, it seems I don't need a Rx and I was thinking of buying this one, is it the correct brand?  I couldn't find any on EBAY

http://www.stlmedical.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=EA11-30

Steven
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #57 on: November 02, 2005, 12:34:43 AM »

Steven:
Yes, that is the right Osbon Esteem manual model and the one that I use. They can be found at a cheaper price at this address though:

www.erecaidpumps.com/

Don't think an RX is required at this site either, but be sure that you ask what warranty the units have before purchasing. Some guy have reported that some sites do not warranty their VEDs which are sold without an RX. You many not know, but the Osbon units are now made by the Timm Medical Division of the Endocare, Inc. company in Minnesota. They have a toll free number to call. You might want to tap into their site for info too.

It is:   www.timmmedical.com/

Again, be sure you ask about warranties before purchasing any VED. I am surprised that there are none of EBay. There is usually several listed there all the time.

Regards, Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #58 on: November 13, 2005, 11:49:09 AM »

I'm 43 and have been recently diagnosed with BPH.  The doc will be doing an Indigo laser procedure this Thursday to open up the urethra especially near the bladder.

For years I've struggled with drippage following urination.  To compensate, I started doing a little palpitation method to chase the extra drops out.  This method ended in a little sequeeze with tissue paper at the head of my penis.  About 10-12 weeks ago I noticed a little (negative) sensitivity at the head during erection.  About 6 weeks ago I developed about a 10-15 degree rt-turn curvature, just at the head during erection.  I swear, I must have unknowingly done this to myself!  I can't feel any noticable plaque as described with other posts.

Doc is anti injections, but would prescribe TV if I wanted to try it.  He's more inclined to schedule me with the Augusta rep and try a VED.

I'm afraid to do nothing; I let the BPH go on for years.  I'm concerned things could get worse.  I'm looking for any advise or comments.  Am I whining about nothing?  Could a VED help with this kind of curve?
Thanks...

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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #59 on: November 13, 2005, 01:16:40 PM »

averagejoe:
You are not whining about nothing. Letting Peyronies Disease go further without doing at least something to help out should be unheard of in the early stages. I developed it at an early age of 24 (now 76) and jumped right on to getting some attention for it. However, in those ancient years of medicine about Peyronies Disease nothing much could be done. My history is published somewhere on this forum under another thread if you care to go that far into reading about one's history, etc.
 
Now about using a VED. I suppose that I am considered the guru on this forum about using the VED for Peyronies Disease and Erectile Dysfunction sypmtoms. It has been the only "Treatment/therapy" that has done anything for my Peyronies Disease. Having had a radical prostatectomy, it too is the weapon of choice for erections due to a non-nerve sparing surgery. I truly and firmly believe in vacuum therapy for Peyronies Disease. Since you mentioned the Augusta rep, I am acquainted with the local rep in the Alabama Gulf Coast area and he has provided me with a Soma Correct manual model VED to evaluate and give feedback to the company about any recommendations that I might have about it and it use/operation. I have made several to the company and hope that they will be incorporated in an updated model soon.

Bottom line, in my opinion, based on what you state in your post, I would recommend that you get back with your urologist and at least explore the possibilities of what the Soma Correct or the Osbon Esteem VEDs could do for you in early therapy for your Peyronies Disease symptoms.

A number of guys that I have worked with have had as much as a 90 degree curve and has had great success with the vacuum therapy. VED therapy does not work for all, but it has worked for many. Would be glad to share with you any information that I have to assist you in any manner. My email address is available on this forum in my profile or on any post in the left margin.

Sincerely, Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

bob

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #60 on: November 30, 2005, 10:45:19 AM »

I have two cents to add on this topic. I went for what was supposed to be my last visit to my urologist in NYC last week. But... my blood pressure was too high and they couldn't do the test, so I'll have to return.

I did, however, ask for and receive a prescription for a V.E.D. Specifically, an Osbon battery powered unit, with a caveat from my doc: In spite of what seem to be positive experiences from many, he says VEDs are not an effective form of P.D. treatment.

I will proceed nonetheless. I'm not completely satisfied with the results of my verapamil injections. I will, of course, be chatting offline with Old Man on the merits of my prescribed unit, and how the treatment regimen he uses might be modified to fit its specifications.
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Hawk

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Re: Pro and Con of VEDs - Opinion
« Reply #61 on: November 30, 2005, 03:32:33 PM »

First let me say I have and use a medical quality VED (Vacurect brand).  It clearly can stretch the penis by causing erections much more firm than many men would otherwise get.  I think VED's do have the potential to help many Peyronies Disease and Erectile Dysfunction patients but I don't think they are a panacea.  In fact, I think they have many limitations and some dangers.  This post is largely opinion, with some well known physiological facts thrown in.

Oxygenation: Dr. Mulhall clearly stated to me that "the VED does not do anything to oxygenate the penis" He stated a VED pulls only venous blood and not arterial blood into the penis.  Venous blood has already had the oxygen removed by other tissue and it is on its way to the lungs to be reoxygenated.  It also contains higher levels of other impurities to be removed by kidneys, liver, etc.  I am also concerned that it does not engorge the significant section of cavernosa that lies within the body.  Anyone that has a penis knows you can easily feel the erect section that extends behind the testicles.  This area remains totally deflated with a VED erection.  On the other hand, firm natural erections pump oxygen rich arterial blood to ALL of the cavernosa tissue. Natural erections also supply stretching.  See the Oxygen/collagen connection. 
http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,130.0.html

Possible Danger: If you take any of the numerous nutrients, herbs, or spices that thin the blood, then relatively light vacuum pressure can draw blood through the capillary wall.  This results in small pinpoint dots of red that are visible.  I have read that whole blood is a strong irritant that sets up scar tissue formation after many surgeries.  Could small amounts of blood drawn through the vessel walls do so in the penis?  Check a medical "pre-surgery" list for the items that thin blood.  They range from garlic to ginger, ginkgo, aspirin, to vitamin E, and about 50 other common items.  There is always the question of whether the stretching of acute Peyronies Disease tissue irritates the healing process further and causes more scare tissue.  This could be compared to scratching, or over stretching surface scar tissue (meaning scars on the skin surface) , which is know to increase scar production. 

If the VED stretches tissue, wouldn't it stretch the heathy tissue at least as much as the tougher scar tissue so the curve or indentation would still remain in the same proportions even if you did regain some size?  How can it stretch the scar tissue and not stretch the more yeilding normal tissue at the same time?  If you had a baloon with a thicker patch of baloon material on it and blew it up some more.  Wouldn't the normal baloon material stretch the most?  I have developed a bit of a lateral curve I never had since using the VED.  I have gained some length though.  I have wondered if the healthier side stretch a bit longer rather than the shorter side shrinking.

Finally, I want to be clear, I am not against VED's.  I also recognize that one of the most decent and helpful human beings I have ever called a friend is on this forum.  Old Man is knowledgeable on VED use and always ready to help.  I do think a VED is especially useful for those that cannot have normal erections.

I just want to remind everyone that we tend to over simplify things, when in fact there are hundreds of factors to consider.  The issues are confusing to medical staff that sincerely spend their lives looking for the answers.  We cannot assume that we can draw conclusions from one or two facts like: "it pulls in blood, blood is good, I am going for it."  Newcomers especially need to think through the issues before they try a specific treatment whether it is with a VED, some supplement, or conventional therapy.

That has been inside my head for sometime, I just had to get it out.  ;)

Best wishes to all.
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Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

Gator

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2005, 05:26:48 AM »

My story.
I am 56 years old. I was first diagnosed with Peyronies Disease 18 months ago.
I had a 40 degree curve to the left with indentation and loss of length and girth.
I never had a problem getting or maintaining an erection.

I started using the Soma Correct six months after discovery.
I used it faithfully for 26 weeks.
Then I just used it sparingly for a while.
After 8 months of using the Soma, the left curvature was gone completely and the indentation also.
I now have a mild upward curvature.
I continue to use the devise and continue to see less and less of the upward bend.

I would like to know which of the three tubes I should be using or should I continue to rotate the three?

Thank you,
Gator
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions Note to Gator
« Reply #63 on: December 02, 2005, 08:54:20 PM »

Gator:

Even though Hawk has given me the title of "knowledgable guru" on VEDs, I am not an expert. Someone has said that an expert is a former drip in a hurry! However, I have considerable experience using a VED and have worked with untold numbers of men in their use.

Now seriously, the Soma Correct is a very good medical quality VED. I have had one now for about 6 months that I am evaluating for the company that produces them. It has somewhat of a drawback over other models of VEDs, but it is still a high quality unit.

If you have gone through the 26 week protocol that is furnished with the unit and have seen considerable positive results, I would recommend that you go back through the 26 week routine, but maybe leave out the smaller A cylinder. Louis of Augusta Medical Systems and I work together on advising how to use the unit, and he says that not using the smaller cylinder could work well in the second phase of using the VED.

Based on the physical size of your penis, the smaller cylinder might be too small and not let the penis develop fuller. It is designed smaller for the "beginner user" so that the curve will be kept as straight as possible when doing the protocol, etc. After you have seen straightening and fuller erections caused by the unit, the smaller cylinder could very well do further damage as Hawk pointed out in his post below.

Again, I categorically state for all, the VED is not for all, but it will help some. Also, caution is the watchword in using the devices. Extreme caution must be used at all times. The old adage of no pain no gain simply does not compute in the use of a VED. If pain is experienced, stop using the device immediately and determine the cause before proceding with its use.

Let me know if you have further questions about the use of VEDs. Have been using one now for over 10 years for Erectile Dysfunction and Peyronies Disease. It has worked extremely well for me.

Regards, Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #64 on: December 03, 2005, 05:56:00 PM »

Hi Old Man,

Could you elaborate on why you think the Soma is inferior to other VEDS? Also, I have ordered a VED and would be thankful if you could provide the regimen with wich you had your success.


Thanks.
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions Soma Correct VED
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2005, 02:48:38 PM »

soxfan:
I am sorry if I led you to think that the Soma is inferior to other brands. What I meant to say was that it has some features that require careful use to preclude a minor problem. As you probably know, it has three cylinders labeled A, B, and C with C being the larger one and getting smaller down to A. The drawback I was referring to is that the sizing inserts have some slight sharp edges on them and if one uses a higher vacuum pressure, they can and will cause some mild irritation the penile skin. Otherwise, they are superior to the Osbon Esteem when being used for Peyronies Disease alone. The Osbon Esteem works for both Erectile Dysfunction and Peyronies Disease when using the regimen you refer to in your post.

The Osbon Esteem manual model was the unit that was prescribed for me
after I had a radical prostatectomy in 1995. (The surgery left me practically impotent for all intents and purposes.) It works very well for both Erectile Dysfunction and Peyronies Disease. For Peyronies Disease I had to make up my own regimen of exercises. The Soma comes with a 26 week protocol that is very effective for Peyronies Disease. If you use the Soma Correct for Erectile Dysfunction, you must purchase separate retainer ring(s) to hold any resulting erection, etc.

Will be glad to provide the regimen that I use for the Osbon Esteem VED. Let me know which brand and model VED you purchased and will be able to work with you on the exercises.

If you so desire to work more privately, use my email address and we can work that way. Some folks like moe privacy when talking about their personal situations.

Sincerely, Old Man
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Old Man

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Re: Note to Bob relative use of VEDs
« Reply #66 on: January 05, 2006, 09:34:22 PM »

Bob:

I chose to reply here to your post under the other topic in order to keep the subject matter in relation to the name.

Yes, you are right about the pros and cons relative the use of VEDs and other treatments for Peyronies Disease symptoms. There are more and more well known urologists now accepting the use of VEDs as a viable treatment for Peyronies Disease. They do however advise that extreme caution should be used when doing exercise therapy with VEDs. This is what I have stated all along about using a VED on this forum as well as the "old forum" which I won't name. Extreme caution is the watchword and careful manipulation of the device is required at all times. The VED has helped quite a number of guys and I just wish that they would post their success stories for others to see. It does not work for all, but it is worth trying before giving up on trying one.

The APDA forum has a segment called Ask the Doctor and in that topic there are several doctors who answer questions about any and all items related to Peyronies Disease, and other subjects. In the December answer to questions to the doctors, there is a good article that states using a VED is a good treatment for Peyronies Disease.

Visit that site and read the article which explains that doctors position about VED use. The address is www.peyroniesassociation.org/

In October 2005, I asked the question about VED usage and the doctor answered it in the December 2005 Ask the Doctor segment.

As you know, I have used a VED for over 10 years now and had great success in eliminating viturally all of my Peyronies Disease symptoms. Only have a very slight indentation on the left side of the shaft at present with no pain or other difficulty being experienced. It also provides necessary erections for sex since my radical prostatectomy left me totally impotent due to non nerve sparing surgery.

Hope this helps.

Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #67 on: January 13, 2006, 02:53:16 PM »

As info,I started using the Soma Correct VED 12 weeks ago.  I have seen improvement in the curvature, length, and girth.  12 weeks ago when I started I had a 90 degree upward bend with a  considerable narrowing of the width from the curve outward.  It is supposed to be a 6 month therapy so I am onlyl half way through it but I am encouraged by the change.  Ihad the condition for 18 months before trying the VED.   I had tried the DMSO and other things but so far the only improvment I had seen is from the VED.  I did not exactly follow the directions.  I altered the treatment a little and would be glad to provided the details if anyone is interested.  If you are interested email me and I will be glad to give you more info.

Glenn
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Larry H

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #68 on: January 13, 2006, 03:34:06 PM »

Glenn,

Would you give the percentage of improvement. What is your bend now and so on? Also, how much plaque did you have and where was it located? Did you have any problems with Erectile Dysfunction prior to using the VED?

I'm delighted to hear of your improvement.

Larry
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Hawk

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Re: Glenn - VED
« Reply #69 on: January 13, 2006, 09:41:05 PM »

Glenn,

I think it contributes much more for an infinitely larger group of people to respond to questions on forum.  There are many that would never email you, or even post, but they would read your exchange with those that do.

I am curious if a 90 degree curve did not complicate the VED usage.  Like larry and others, I would like to know the specific degree of improvement in length, girth, bend, etc
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Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

Old Man

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Re: Note to Hawk about the Soma Correct
« Reply #70 on: January 13, 2006, 10:43:06 PM »

Hawk:

As you know, I have been doing some research testing of the Soma Correct for the Augusta Medical Systems company. The regional sales rep furnished me a demontration model to use as I see fit and give any feed back to him as well as recommendations for changes, updates, etc. Since Hurrican Katrina blew through, he has been recovering from the storm and I have not had much contact with him, but have been keeping in touch with the company rep in Augusta, GA.

Have been using the Soma now for 6 months on sort of a part time basis. I had no Peyronies Disease curvature/bends when I got the VED. So, there is no progress for me to report on changes, etc. However, I do see benefit from my continual use of the Soma to help maintain the progress that I made with the old Osbon Esteem manual model. Once the symtoms are gone, it has been my experience and some others that one should continue using the VED to keep the penis healthy such as received by nocturnal erections. A radical prostatectomy rendered me totally impotent due to non nerve sparing surgery and the VED has been my only means of getting and maintaining erections for sex.

The Soma is so designed to work with severe curves and bends with 3 cylinders that are used on an ascending size basis when one starts the protocol of 26 weeks as stated in the brochure that comes with the VED.
When starting therapy with the Soma, the penis has to be carefully placed in the cylinder(s) using lots of lubricant to provide a very slippery surface. Only enough vacuum is used to bring pressure to start blood flow into the penile chambers. As the penis curve(s) begin to relax so to speak, then more pressure can be applied to cause further stimulation of the plaque and/or curves. No retentions rings or device like that are used with the Soma for Peyronies Disease. It can be used for Erectile Dysfunction by purchasing the special break away rings recommended by Augusta Medical.

Again, as I always state when giving any advice about using a VED, extreme care should be exercised to prevent further damage. Overpumping any type of VED can and will cause further damage.

On Marti's APDA forum under the topic of ask the doctor, Dr. Levine answered my question about the use of VEDs for Peyronies Disease. The article explains in medical terms his position of VED usage. I highly recommend that all read this doctor's comments about VEDs.

Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #71 on: January 14, 2006, 01:31:32 PM »

Well....  I spent an hour typing out a response to Hawk then apparently screwed up the posting of it and lost the message.  This will be a quicker response in case I screw it up. 

My life sort of went to hell in a  hand basket back in September of 2005.  Lost my job, had to relocate, start a new career (80 hours a week).  etc. 

I did not record the degree of bend, girth etc. like I would have if my life had not be in upheaval. 

I used the Soma Correct in the following manor.  I used it twice a day for the first 7 or 8 weeks.  I used the markings on the tube to guage how far I strecthed it each day.  Initially the 'S' on the tube was a goal but later I stretched it about an inch futher than the 'S'.    THE KEY IS TO FOLLOW OLD MAN'S Advice and not stretch it far enough to incure pain or discomfort.  That is why  you will need 30-45 minutes.   I gradually stretched it further.

I can not give you measurements like I wish I could.  I can say this.  The curvature was an acute 90-110 degrees.    Now it is  a more rounded curve and about 70-80 degrees.  Before the VED, the diameter from the begining of the curve to the glans, was about 50% as wide as pre-Peyronies Disease. Now it is closer to 75%.  There is much more mass in an erect state than before (and that comes from my wife as much as me). I  have only tried this for 3 months.  The instructions say it is a 6 month program.  I will post any future success, but I wanted to post this in case anyone wanted to get started on it.  It is a long term project.  I follow the recommended instrutions of 1 wk the small tube, 1 wk the medium tube, 1  wk the large tube, then repeat.

Hawk,

The 90-100% curve did not cause a problem with the VED. Like Old Man says you need plenty of lubicrant and it works OK.   

Glenn
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bob

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The right VED
« Reply #72 on: January 19, 2006, 03:17:16 PM »

Notwithstanding Dr. Mulhall's negative opinion of the uses for a VED in treating Peyronie's Disease, he DID give me a prescription for one. It's on some form of self-mailing envelope coupon. It, however is not for the SomaCorrect... but for another (battery-powered) variety whose name escapes me.

The form is in my desk at home. I haven't ordered the unit yet. I'm not sure of the name...

My question: The Soma Correct seems to be designed specifically to address curvature, via multiple chambers, etc. A lot of men, on this site and others, are reporting good results with it. Should I insist on the SomaCorrect?
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Joshua

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #73 on: January 19, 2006, 06:59:04 PM »

I have been reading Old Man’s VED therapy suggestions for years now on the BTC and now thankfully here. When I scan the positive posts that are starting to pop up regarding the VED treatments it makes me happy that Old Man is finally vindicated. I have seen him take some heat for his views on the VED. So kudos to Old Man for staying the course. Please keep up the good work. ;D

Joshua
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Glenn

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Re: Soma Correct
« Reply #74 on: January 20, 2006, 11:02:29 AM »


Bob,

When I was trying to decide about ordering one, I read up on them and then asked Old Man.  That was a few months ago but at that time the Soma Correct was the only one I saw, or that Old Man mentioned as being specifically for Peyronies Disease.  That is why chose it. I think you are right about the three chambers and the design being better aimed at the curvature.  If it was me I think I would insist on the Soma Corr.  I don't know the advantages of a prescription, if your insurance will pay for it etc., but you can buy one on line.   
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jmd

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #75 on: January 21, 2006, 01:22:20 PM »

I have a VED (Touch II) with the Soma Correct inserts.  I need a smaller sized tube is one available or can one be made?
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions Answers to several posts
« Reply #76 on: January 23, 2006, 11:41:08 AM »

jmd: The Soma Correct should have been prescribed for you to use with Peyronies Disease. The Touch II is used primarily for Erectile Dysfunction, but can work for Peyronies Disease if you get all three cylinders that come with the Soma. You can purchase the cylinders separately from the manufacturer by emailing them at this address:
www.augustams.com

 Just ask for a price quote from a sales rep and they will be glad to help you. The Touch II uses the same pump as the Soma. Some have reported that the Reach Medical Co. has stated that the Soma is no longer available, but that is not true. Augusta still makes and sells them. If you experience any difficulty with getting a quote, email this man who is in their PR dept: [email protected]  His name is Louis and he will be glad to assist you in any way with getting the proper cylinders. As an after thought, you probably should email him first.


Joshua: Thanks for the kudos. Yes, I have taken quite a bit of heat because of my insistance that the VED was a viable therapy for Peyronies Disease. I have over 10 years experience now using one.  It has served me well since my non nerve sparing radical prostatectomy which left me totally impotent. Others that I have worked with after radicals have reported great success with the VED.


Bob: Since Dr. Mulhall prescribed a VED for you, don't let his negative comments deter you from following the exercise regimen to the letter. Patience is the watchword and one must keep a strict daily schedule of exercises with the VED. A word of caution again to any and all who wish to try the VED exercises: DO NOT USE TOO MUCH VACUUM PRESSURE. IF PAIN OR DISCOMFORT IS EXPERIENCED AT ANY TIME WHILE DOING PUMPING, RELEASE THE PRESSURE AND START OVER. IF ANY TRAUMA SUCH AS SWELLING OR EDEMA ANYWHERE ON THE PENIS OCCURS, STOP THE EXERCISES IMMEDIATELY. LET IT HEAL UP AND START OVER USING LESS VACUUM. There are some instances where the VED just will not work for Peyronies Disease, but it is worth the money, time and effort to try.

Now, I am sorry that I was not able to answer the preceding posts earlier, but experienced a problem with the reply link which is now fixed.

Sincerely, Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #77 on: January 23, 2006, 08:32:32 PM »

OK is there any chance that the person from whom I will be ordering the unit will be able to subsititute the SomaCorrect? Or will that totally screw up my insurance eligiblity? In latter case the only course would be to request another RX from Dr. Mulhall.
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions Insurance coverage
« Reply #78 on: January 24, 2006, 01:19:58 PM »

Bob:
You did not say whether or not Dr. Mulhall prescribed a specific model or not. If he only prescribed a VED without brand name and nothing is said about that, then your insurance company should be contacted to ascertain from them if there would be a problem with getting a certain model.

I have stated several times about the Soma Correct being a good model to correct Peyronies Disease. It is being prescribed for Erectile Dysfunction so, if you want that particular brand, again ask the insurance company about coverage of it before purchasing it.

If I can help further, let me know.

Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #79 on: January 24, 2006, 04:49:45 PM »

The prescription was in the form of a self-mailing form to a specific distributor of medical devices. (It's in my desk at home...) There is a letter from the "account exec" on one side and a partly filled out form on the other. Pat from Dr. Mulhall's office wrote in the doctor's name, code for primary diagnosis (which I guess is Peyronies Disease), secondary (which I guess is Erectile Dysfunction) and other info. I believe the form specifies an Osbon device. There are boxes at the bottom to check for "manual" or "battery powered." Dr. M seemed to think I should go with the battery powered, but they left that part blank.

I will look up the name of the distributor when I get home and re-post. I also got a video as part of the package.

Bob
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions Name of Device
« Reply #80 on: January 24, 2006, 11:30:25 PM »

Bob:

From my experience with the Osbon and Soma, the manual units work best for therapy, either for Erectile Dysfunction or Peyronies Disease. The battery units can be overpumped if one is not very careful in using the power switch. Have had several guys I work with report some physical problems with overpumping and causing swelling of the foreskin and shaft skin.

This is just my personal opinion and have not clinical proof, etc., just know what has worked best for us so far in therapy for Erectile Dysfunction and Peyronies Disease.

Let me now if there is anything further I can help with, etc.

Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #81 on: February 12, 2006, 11:31:57 AM »

testing
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Mick

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #82 on: February 20, 2006, 08:59:08 PM »

This is my first post.  When I joined the forum about 3 weeks ago, I received a very warm welcome from Hawk.  I told him that I was 74 yrs old, had been diagnosed with Peyronies Disease 14 yrs ago at age 60 and had done nothing about it until now.  It had stablaized rather rapidily and never improved or gotten worse.  I have an upward curve of only about 15%, with a 3/8 inch wide scar running from the base of the penis to the edge of the head; there is no pain.  Certainly, it is much milder than most of the other members' Peyronies Disease.  Also, I do not have Erectile Dysfunction.  Hawk referred me to Old Man, who has also been supportive and very helpful.  After having read everything under the VED topic and much on the other topics, I decided to give the Soma Correct a try.  I learned that it is available only through the manufacturer, Augusta Medical Supply (www.augustams.com), and requires a prescription, a blank copy of which can be found on their website under "brochures."   The price is $599.  For those on Medicare, they will approve $500 and pay 80% of that ($400).  As a retired Marine, I also have Tricare for Life, which will pay the other 20%, so I will be billed only $99.  The salesman, Mike Davis (800-827-8382), got the approval from the insurance company agents in a matter of hours.  I printed out the prescription, filled in my part, made an appointment with a uro, took it to the uro, who filled out his part, and I got him to fax it along with my insurance cards to Augusta.  They received it before I left the office.  I should be receiving the Soma Correct in a few days as I am just up the road in Tenn.  I Hope this info helps someone on the list.  I'll keep you posted on my progress.  Incidently, my uro thinks the idea is crazy, but after I related some of Old Man's history to him, he became curious and thought it was worth a try.  I think this forum is the greatest source of Peyronies Disease info, by the way.  
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Susan Wells

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #83 on: March 03, 2006, 11:41:10 PM »

Dear Old Man,
     It is Susan, I have talked to you off line before, and because of you my husband did
get a VED and that has been the only real help he has gotten for his Peyronies Disease. All the other things tired did not help like the massive doses of Vit. E, Verapamil injections, herbal medicines. I did want him to try the regiment of exercises that you keep talking about. I know you do not want to post them on line because of a bad reaction you had form the BTC forum. I asked my husband to write to you to find out about the regiment, but he won't. The only way I will be able to get this information to him is if you post it. Any information I find that I think will be helpful, I just print out and give it to him. He will read things I give him, but he won't pursue anything on his own. This is a friendly forum so maybe you will feel confortable now to print out the regiment.
      What I wanted to know has anyone using this regiment been able to regain size and potency. My husband can get a weak erection which he cannot maintain without the VED
                                                             Thanks to all,
                                                              Susan
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions Exercise Regimen
« Reply #84 on: March 04, 2006, 12:23:50 AM »

Susan:

Sorry that I have not seen your post earlier, but I have been busy today getting some computer problems straightened out. I am sorry that you cannot get your husband to post on this forum about his problem. However, I understand his reluctance to discuss openly his personal problems. Since you have taken the lead and asked for help, I will try my best to work with you on this.

The regimen that I use has worked well for quite a number of guys in the past and some are using it at the present. I usually develop a modified version of it for each individual based on personal data that each have provided. That is why I prefer to work with each person off the forum in order to preserve their privacy. I would only be able to post a somewhat generic version on the forum which would not provide a full service to the person, etc.

I would be glad to work with you to develop a version for your husband. I think that your address is still in my address book. Will email you to see if it is still the same one. Then I can get all the facts that is needed to work up the plan for you.

Hope that you can get him interested enough to stick with a routine of exercises to see if it will work out for him.

Sincerely, Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #85 on: March 04, 2006, 11:21:22 AM »

To Old Man,

     Thanks Old Man. If I don't hear from you, I will Email you.
                                                                         
                                                                        Susan
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hopeful

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #86 on: March 05, 2006, 07:35:47 AM »

[Did youget your VED? and is it helping you if so how?

Hopeful
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hopeful

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #87 on: March 05, 2006, 07:58:07 AM »

Susan,

How is the VEd helping your husband... is he able to maintain an erection? what about the Peyronies Disease?, where is his curve?- how long has he had it?....What about the Verapimil injections- who did these- and what was the outcome?- DId he consider IONTOPHORESIS?- www.physion.com  ?- I was considering- but have not seen enough evidence- if itwas really working it would be ALl over the forum. I have not purchased a VED yet..

I have had Peyronies Disease for abut 8 months- no more pain- have low testosterone - 300 - have 35% curve at tip  of penis- I think it is getting worse..I am only taking oral enzymes for now - . I am working with (3) other companies doing research- one is a company that does high frequency ultra sound- which they are curing prostrate cancer- 100%- and laproscopy- ablation- to remove tumors- see link http://www.misonix.com/medical/US/dApplications -

After speaking to them about Peyronies Disease, they feel that their ablation method may be a modality to try- and they are in the process as we speak- to get approval in London to test this on a cadaver with Peyronies Disease-  basically they are able to dissolve cancerous tumors, and suck them out-very similar to liposuction...

I am also working with another company- that has invented a needles syringe- no pain- no bruising-no bleeding - that has just finished a 2,000 patient trial on men with Erectile Dysfunction and diabetic that cannot take oral Viagra, Cealsis etc- with fantastic results- I am also working with another company that has created a super strong Enzyme creme- that has had fantastic results with DP & lymphodema - both similar to Peyronies Disease - same basic conditions in different parts of the body- I just got the creme- 2 days ago- and started applying it- I will also begin an oral enzyme protocol as well- I want to find a doctor to work with that can monitor the treatment ( before and after) I will be sending sample to the company with the needless syringe to see if this can be administered this way as well- I am also trying to see if it can be administered via IONTOPHORESIS too.

Still trying- still Hopeful- very hard on my wife- no sex- for almost 8 months-very difficult to penetrate- very embarrassing-afraid to try- am 58
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Susan Wells

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #88 on: March 05, 2006, 12:11:14 PM »

Dear Hopeful,
     My Husband has had Peyronies Disease since December of 2000, I guess he started noticing it before that, but he was afraid to tell me because he thought the lumps were cancer of the penis. The heavy doses of Vit E he took over about 6 months had no effect. The Verapamil injection did reduce the lumps, they are now dents. He has tried Viagra and Chialis with no effect on his Erectile Dysfunction, he did get a whopping head ache with both. He does not have a curve. He has the hourglass configuration. He has two lumps at the base of the penis, on either side which gives the hourglass shape, he still has them, but they are more like dents. Before Peyronies Disease he was fully functioning. He has Erectile Dysfunction now, I am sure as a direct result of the Peyronies Disease. He has lost a lot of length and girth. On his own he can only get a weak erection which last seconds. This is not enough for sex. The VED pumps it up so we can have sex, he doesn't have to worry about getting or maintaining an erection on his own, it is not perfect, but better than no sex at all. It has been a very difficult road, especially because we don't really talk about it. If I find an article or information that I think is valuable I just hand it to him, and he might comment on it or he might not.
     His Uro. is at Loma Linda University Medical Center in California. I hope I answered all your questions. Best of Luck to you and your wife.

                                                                                Susan
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Mick

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #89 on: March 05, 2006, 02:37:36 PM »

Hopeful:
     I assume your query in your reply # 87 was meant for me, inasmuch as I am the most recent member to mention acquiring a VED. The answer is that I have received it and have begun the regimen prescribed by Augusta.  Today is the ninth day.  I have not noticed any improvement, nor do I expect to for some time.  I have considered taking vitamin E (high gamma) but have, for the time being, anyway, decided against it because I have noticed that most of those in the forum who have reported improvement have stated that they were receiving multiple treatments and were unable to credit any one or combination with certainty for their successes.  Since I have never taken any action except to wait and see what would happen naturally, I will be able, if we are successful with the VED, to pinpoint the reason exactly.  It is highly unlikely that natural healing will have been the cause or any part of it because I have been stabilized for almost 14 years.  Hope this answers your question.
     Respy, Mick
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #90 on: March 05, 2006, 10:23:19 PM »

Mick:

Read your earlier post and I am glad that you are approaching the Augusta protocol with a good attitude. You are right in that you don't expect to see major improvement almost immediately. The protocol is for 26 weeks or six months and the exercises will give results slowly. Since in most cases the malady came on slowly (except for an injury type) it will go away the same way.

I do think however, that you should take the high gamma vitamin E while doing the exercises. The vitamin, being an antioxidant, will help thin the blood somewhat and that will help with better blood flow  while doing the exercises with the Soma VED.

This has been my experience in my own case and in the cases of other guys who have used the Soma and the Osbon VEDs. Of course, you need to decide for yourself based on your own situation. Lately, the vitamin E has been given somewhat of a bad reputation of not helping with Peyronies Disease, but I have had the opposite occur. This is just my own opinion, but have observed it happening with other men too.

Sincerely, Old Man
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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #91 on: March 05, 2006, 10:43:49 PM »

Old Man:
     Thanks for your input.  As usual, I am always interested in your take.  I should point out that I am on plavix (75 m.g.) and aspirin (162 mg.), both daily, to thin my blood because of stenosis in my left carotid artery.  I wonder if  Vitamin E might be a problem in view of that.  What do you think?

Respy, Mick
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hopeful

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #92 on: March 06, 2006, 07:52:21 AM »

Thank you for answering me.. I forgot to ask his age- had I not looked today, I would have missed your post as on the new forum, I was not notified.. have to ask how this works...

As for the Viagra, CEalis, I have not tried,,, and I have to find a good URO - who is open top other modalities like what I discussed- the company that makes the needless syringe- like I stated had a very succdesful trial on 2000 men who have Erectile Dysfunction and diabetic- they will be releasing their results soon- so there may be hope as this type of injection is painless- no scarring- and it is locaized and not sytemic-

Hopeful
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hopeful

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #93 on: March 06, 2006, 07:55:22 AM »

Mick...

What is the Agusta protocol??? - Am not aware.. Please respond..

Hopeful
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Hawk

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Re: Mick - Blood thinners and VED
« Reply #94 on: March 06, 2006, 08:32:48 AM »

Mick,

The following is my input based on a little knowledge and some personal experience that is NOT backed by any trained medical expertise.

You stated you are on plavix and aspirin and wondered about vitamin E.  Some people are effected more by vitamin E than others.  I had a nasty bleeding experience after one of my 3 prostate biopsies.  Vitamin E was almost certainly a contributor to that bleeding.  The bleeding stopped within 48 hours of stopping the vitamin E and started again (extremely unusual) 10 days after the procedure which was 24 hours after I resumed vitamin E.  Vitamin E is specifically not to be taken with some more potent blood thinners.

Personally, I would opt for some known natural blood thinners like garlic, ginger, vitamin E, ginko, rather than aspirin but you should discuss this with your doctor.

The bottom line is that too many blood thinners, natural or prescription along with a VED will draw blood through the capillary walls much like a hicky/passion mark.  Whole blood in the tissue has been identified as a contributor to scarring.  http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php?topic=151.0  One of many referrences in this link indicate that blood is an irritant that can cause; , irritation, scarring, and adhesions in many types of tissue. "(2) Meticulous control of bleeding = hemostasis (whole blood within the pelvis is highly irritating to the peritoneal lining and the inflammation that results can lead to adhesion formation)".

If at any time you see little rusty red pin point dots right under the surface of your skin, then either your blood thinners, or your vacuum are to high for your VED exercises.  Since you have a medical condition requiring blood thinners I would NOT reduce those without medical approval..
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Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 68 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums

Mick

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #95 on: March 06, 2006, 08:57:19 AM »

Hopeful:

     The Augusta protocol is the 26 week schedule recommended by Augusta Medical Systems for use with their Soma Erect.  For example, during the first  two weeks, all 3 cylinders are used; during the 3rd and 4th, only the large and medium, and so forth through the 26 week schedule.
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Mick

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #96 on: March 06, 2006, 09:05:09 AM »

Hawk:
     Thanks for your input; I'll check with my GP.
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Old Man

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #97 on: March 06, 2006, 03:52:48 PM »

Mick:

I agree with Hawk on his input about too much aspirin daily. Since my bypass surgery in 2004, my cardiologist has me on 81 mg aspirin daily. That amount along with 400 I.U.s of regular vitamin E does not affect my heart problem as such. High gamma E should be used in place of regular E while using either the Soma Correct or Osbon VEDs. It provides more thinning action with less dosages. (Blood tests should be done about every few months to preclude any toxic buildup of E in the blood stream.)

However, you should check with you doctors, i.e. GP, uro, or caridologist if you have heart problems. The carotid artery problem can be quite a pain in the you know what if it is not taken care of properly. During my bypass surgery, they cleaned out mine and I have had no problem with them since. It even eliminated my headaches which had bothered my since childhood!

Again, word of caution to any and all that are using the VED for either Erectile Dysfunction or Peyronies Disease therapy, please do not over pump the pressure. As Hawk says, if you experience any symptoms of extreme redness, red pimples or a strawberry colored area, stop the VED immediately. Try to determine what caused the condition and if it is a result of too high a vacuum, reduce the time and/or the amount of pressure while using the VED.

One cannot be too careful in the use of the VED. It can and will in most cases help with Erectile Dysfunction and Peyronies Disease, but use it cautiously.

 The above is furnished for the information of any and all who are using the VED. It is only my non medical opinions that are stated.

Regards, Old Man
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Age 90. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

Ace

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Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
« Reply #98 on: March 15, 2006, 02:51:34 PM »

I'm wondering if anyone else has had an experience like this...

My Peyronies Disease doesn't involve any curvature, just an overall loss of length and girth. What I can feel of the plaque seems like a band at the base of the shaft. I've been taking vitamin E for about 6 months (with some inprovement) and just recently started taking 60mg of Ginko 2x per day. Yesterday I was using an adjustable cock ring, (I did a google search and found a similar one here:
http://www.sextoysex.com/sex/start/view.html?a=sextoyspro&pnum=DJ2000-01 )
which made my erection look a lot more like it used to (in terms of girth only, no increase in length). Later when I removed the cock ring, the top portion of my penis went flaccid more quickly than the bottom part where the plaque is. There was even a raised oblong area on the lower left where the plaque is most easily felt. Like the blood was still trapped in that part of the shaft even without the restriction of the cock ring. Within an hour it had returned to a more normal looking flaccid state. So, I'm wondering if the amount of blood trapped in the penis could have penetrated or gone beneath the plaque (I don't know enough about the physiology of plaques to know if that's even possible), and secondly if this might be something to repeat as a sort of therapy, working on the assumption that more blood in the area will be good for the plaque. I'm also curious if anyone else has used cock rings with Peyronies Disease and if they had a similar experience with detumescence, as well as the increase in girth during erection.
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Hawk

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RE: Ace / Trapped blood suppy after an Erection
« Reply #99 on: March 15, 2006, 06:26:59 PM »

Ace,

I have not experienced anything really close to that but allow me to make a guess and a comment or two.  I suspect that the uneven return to a flaccid state was a result of greater elasticity in the end of the tunica as opposed to the base of the tunica, much like the difference between filling a balloon vs filling a sandwhich bag full of water.  Once the elasticity forced the blood from the end it just took movement and normal circulation to eventually do the same at the base.  During stages of this disease I have noticed that my flaccid state seemed to never get to the degree of flaccid like you expect after a plunge in to a cold swimming pool.  A lack of elasticity can limit a return to either a stretched or a retracted state.

As far as benefit or harm goes:  Trapped blood loses its oxygen pretty fast so using a ring for more than 20-30 minuets is probably a risk and not a benefit.  Also, if the ring or the resulting effect of the ring causes pain, discomfort, bruising, red dots, or red pinpoints, then I would not use it.
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Prostatectomy 2004, radiation 2009, currently 68 yrs old
After pills, injections, VED - Dr Eid, Titan 22cm implant 8/7/18
Hawk - Updated 10/27/18 - Peyronies Society Forums
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