ORAL TREATMENTS - GENERAL - Vitamins, Prescriptions , Herbs, Supplements

[Hawk]

Hawk,  You are making precisely the mistake that most medical professionals make by assuming that current studies are conclusive which is almost never the case.  

What did I say to make you think I was assuming that.  I made no such point.  My point is the simple rational fact that some evidence is more credible and superior to other evidence whether it is a criminal investigation or medical puzzle.  I think you must have fired off a response to my post without reading the page I referenced.  Reading the page would have clarified that we questions many studies.  In spite of that however, we do not substitute anecdotal accounts for clinical research.  I am hopeful mankind has advanced beyond that stage.  

I am also hopeful we no not drag members backward at the PDS by trying to disregard clinical studies with an anecdotal account.  

[slowandsteady]

No curcumin or ALC today, only a tiny amount of discomfort. I ran 7 miles after a very busy day that would have wiped me out before (I had built up to only 3 miles in the last few months). I had buckets of patience for the kids. I am really liking LDN.

[newguy]

No curcumin or ALC today, only a tiny amount of discomfort. I ran 7 miles after a very busy day that would have wiped me out before (I had built up to only 3 miles in the last few months). I had buckets of patience for the kids. I am really liking LDN.

It's good to know that it seems to be something of a life enhancing treatment! I do a bit of running too, so if I do start on LDN, it doesn't hurt to know that an energy boost could be a nice side effect. It's certainly positive that you may be seeing the first signs of it lessening your peyronie's inflammation too. I think we're a way off knowing this for sure, (we'd need very strong indications from multiple sources) but at least not not hearing that you're in pain. Good news.

[skunkworks]

This list could go on endlessly.  The point is that if you sufficiently block the inflammation, tissues do heal.  Its a slow process, but it does happen.  The hard part is finding ways to block stubborn inflammation without causing dangerous side effects.  - George

I agree. If peyronie's sufferers are able to get a handle on the inflammation right away, in terms of either knocking it out completely, or reducing it to something the body is better able to deal with, it stands to reason that they will be in a much better position. As you rightly say there is a balancing act between trying to deal with this issue and ensure that the body doesn't become suseptable to other health problems. What we have on our side in such a scenario is the fact that if the right drug comes along we'd probably only need to knock out inflammation for a finite length of time to allow normal healing to take place, and so this window of opportunity for other health problems would be relatively small.

There are likely issues that could make my reasoning invalid (maybe "reducing" a trapped inflammation, if that's what peyronie's is, simply means that it will exist at a lower level of severity but nevertheless will not stop until it's "burned itself out" etc) but hopefully they don't hold true in reality.

In that case we should all be on a low GI diet, similar to that prescribed by Dr Pericone.  Insulin is one of the major factors in long term inflammation.

Now that I think about it, diabetics are considered to be at high risk for most auto immune diseases...  

[George999]

In that case we should all be on a low GI diet, similar to that prescribed by Dr Pericone.  Insulin is one of the major factors in long term inflammation.

Now that I think about it, diabetics are considered to be at high risk for most auto immune diseases...

BINGO!!!!

Typical lifestyles today = low vitamin D levels + lots of inflammatory foods = a sick population

Ask the right questions and get the right answer.

Bad carbs + bad fats + bad proteins = bad health

You are hitting the nail on the head!

- George

[newguy]

I definitely agree with the dietary point. Of course each person has their own approach of how strict they want to be, but I see it as a win-win. If dietary factors can make a meaningful difference in those with existing peyronie's, it's the right thing to do. If it makes a very marginal difference then it's still worth adhering to because diet can play a huge say in your general health. Diabetes is a risk factor in peyronie's, so it's safe to say that some men's terrible dietary habits led to them becoming diabetic, which in turn increases their risk of developing peyronie's disease.

[George999]

We KNOW that diabetics are at higher risk for Peyronie's AND we KNOW that diabetics have generally poorer outcomes than non-diabetics.  BUT, what about people who are "borderline"?  A lot of people who are borderline are in denial.  They think that because they are not outright diabetic, they are safe.    I suspect that by improving your blood sugar levels you will probably be improving your outcome EVEN IF you are not frankly diabetic.  - George

[skunkworks]

We KNOW that diabetics are at higher risk for Peyronie's AND we KNOW that diabetics have generally poorer outcomes than non-diabetics.  BUT, what about people who are "borderline"?  A lot of people who are borderline are in denial.  They think that because they are not outright diabetic, they are safe.    I suspect that by improving your blood sugar levels you will probably be improving your outcome EVEN IF you are not frankly diabetic.  - George

This actually crosses over into a huge topic concerning human health. There is a growing body of evidence to suggest that pre diabetic conditions such as insulin resistance and PCOS are an underlying factor in a huge list of health issues, heart disease is the notable example.

[slowandsteady]

I would have to believe ALC preceding inflammation had nothing to do with that inflammation.  I think it is far more likely that the inflammation was the result of a subtle unidentified environmental, dietary, or internal agent or process that was independent of ALC

I took 500 mg of ALC yesterday and had minor pain and inflammation. I did take it with 100 mg of pycnogenol. We've seen how strongly pycnogenol potentiates l-arginine (PMID 12851125 and 18037769). Perhaps it also affects ALC. The biochemistry is a bit complex for me though.

I'm still loving the LDN. Pain free today. Anyone else start it?

s&s

[skunkworks]

I would have to believe ALC preceding inflammation had nothing to do with that inflammation.  I think it is far more likely that the inflammation was the result of a subtle unidentified environmental, dietary, or internal agent or process that was independent of ALC

I took 500 mg of ALC yesterday and had minor pain and inflammation. I did take it with 100 mg of pycnogenol. We've seen how strongly pycnogenol potentiates l-arginine (PMID 12851125 and 18037769). Perhaps it also affects ALC. The biochemistry is a bit complex for me though.

I'm still loving the LDN. Pain free today. Anyone else start it?

s&s

I may have to order it online, as have had no luck finding a doc to prescribe.

[newguy]

I'm still loving the Low Dose Naltrexone. Pain free today. Anyone else start it?

It is a shame more people aren't taking it, so that some kind of consensus could quickly be reached. I'm thinking of ordering some in a few days. I'll keep an eye out for the your updates until that time.

[young25]

I will be starting it next month, currently on other prescription drugs for Low T, the protocol is ending next week probably then I will start LDN. Right now dont want to mess up with lot of Rx Drugs.

[Overcomer]

Hey guys I came across this article is there any truth to this?  http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1209418

"Dupuytren's contracture" and "Peyronie's disease" are two "fibrotic" conditions that can be helped considerably by SSKI. In Dupuytren's contracture, thickening (fibrosis) occurs along one of the tendons in the palm in the hand, pulling the related finger down towards the palm. As the problem progresses, the finger often can't be straightened any more.

In Peyronie's disease, a very similar thickening occurs along the shaft of the penis, making erections increasing "curved" and painful. In both cases, rubbing SSKI into the thickened tissue at least twice daily softens and lessens the fibrotic area over a period of several months, allowing for more normal function.

For these conditions, it's additionally helpful to take para-aminobenzoic acid (PABA) 2 grams, three times daily, and to rub a mixture of Vitamin E and DMSO into the thickened areas, also. However, if "caught early", SSKI alone will often "do the job". (It's also advisable to have glucose-insulin tolerance test done, as there's an unusually high incidence of "insulin resistance" in people with Dupuytren's contracture or Peyronie's disease.

"Keloids" are abnormally thick scars, sometimes as much as an inch thick, that can form after injury. Although anyone can get a keloid, they're more common among blacks than other ethnic groups. Rubbing SSKI into a keloid at least twice daily will ultimately flatten them down to a "normal scar", but it can take many months to a year for particularly bad ones. The treatment goes faster if SSKI is mixed "50-50" with DMSO."  This is for Potassium Iodide

[Fred22]

We KNOW that diabetics are at higher risk for Peyronie's AND we KNOW that diabetics have generally poorer outcomes than non-diabetics.  BUT, what about people who are "borderline"?  A lot of people who are borderline are in denial.  They think that because they are not outright diabetic, they are safe.    I suspect that by improving your blood sugar levels you will probably be improving your outcome EVEN IF you are not frankly diabetic.  - George

Just had a blood workup June and my serum glucose (blood sugar?) was 76.  They stated the safe limits to be 65-99.  Should I be shooting for a lower level?  I've eliminated practicaly all refined sugar products from my diet.  I have shredded wheat (with no sugar or sodium added) for breakfast with blueberries and a small slice of banana for breakfast.  Maybe a dessert on a "special occassion" (rarely).  Quite a bit of other fruit (fresh peaches, mangoes, nectarines), nuts (almonds and walnuts).  My total cholesterol was 146, Trigs, 74, HDL, 42.  My serum calcium was 9.8.  I'm wondering with this level if it would be safe to increase my D3 intake.  I'm currently taking 2000 IU.  (I know you're not a doctor, but realize you've done quite a bit of research in these areas and would just be interested in your opinion.)

Fred

[skunkworks]

We KNOW that diabetics are at higher risk for Peyronie's AND we KNOW that diabetics have generally poorer outcomes than non-diabetics.  BUT, what about people who are "borderline"?  A lot of people who are borderline are in denial.  They think that because they are not outright diabetic, they are safe.    I suspect that by improving your blood sugar levels you will probably be improving your outcome EVEN IF you are not frankly diabetic.  - George

Just had a blood workup June and my serum glucose (blood sugar?) was 76.  They stated the safe limits to be 65-99.  Should I be shooting for a lower level?  I've eliminated practicaly all refined sugar products from my diet.  I have shredded wheat (with no sugar or sodium added) for breakfast with blueberries and a small slice of banana for breakfast.  Maybe a dessert on a "special occassion" (rarely).  Quite a bit of other fruit (fresh peaches, mangoes, nectarines), nuts (almonds and walnuts).  My total cholesterol was 146, Trigs, 74, HDL, 42.  My serum calcium was 9.8.  I'm wondering with this level if it would be safe to increase my D3 intake.  I'm currently taking 2000 IU.  (I know you're not a doctor, but realize you've done quite a bit of research in these areas and would just be interested in your opinion.)

Fred

A glucose response test would be a far better indicator of where your body is at with glucose and insulin related inflammation. For instance, I had a fasting glucose of 5 (normal range 3-6) yet after a meal it would jump to 17 for around 4-5 hours. You can see why testing serum glucose is just not enough.

On the diet thing I'm only going to post generally.

Ditch the shredded wheat, eat a lot more protein. Best to eat protein before you eat anything else, especially fruit.

[newguy]

Fred22 - If you've cut out refined carbs then in my view you've struck a good balance. You could drop some of the fruit in exchange for vegetables as they tend to have less sugars, but in practical terms whether this will change anything is unknown. If it doesn't offer any peyronie's specific benefits, it's still of course sensible to have a healthy diet.

Overcomer - That message conains a little bit of everything. PABA and DMSO have been talked about extensively on the board. Lots of treatments potentially have their place, but the "curezone" page makes it all sound rather straightforward when in reality it isn't. You're best off looking at actual studies really and experiences from others here, and drawing conclusions based on that.

 

[slowandsteady]

I eat a fairly low carb diet (usually below 80g/day, and often less). I've come to the conclusion that pre-diabetes doesn't cause Peyronies Disease, but does make it worse. In general I think that anything inflammatory will make it worse. For many people that would include gluten.

Another test to consider is glycated hemoglobin (hemoglobin A1c). Increased blood sugar (especially fructose) causes glycation over time, so H-A1C will give a good moving average perspective of blood sugar.

s&s

[Fred22]

Fred22 - If you've cut out refined carbs then in my view you've struck a good balance. You could drop some of the fruit in exchange for vegetables as they tend to have less sugars, but in practical terms whether this will change anything is unknown. If it doesn't offer any peyronie's specific benefits, it's still of course sensible to have a healthy diet.

I do eat a variety of vegetables (green beans, peas, carrots, etc.) usually frozen though.  should probably eat more fresh veggies.  I very seldom eat red meat, usually poultry and fish.  I've cut back on proteins in general because I have gout which is caused by a buildup of uric acid which occurs when proteins are broken down.  Haven't had a gout attack in about a year and a half since cutting back on meats (and nutritional yeast which is bad for gout).  I keep hearing about shredded wheat being a problem.  I thought whole grains were good.  Is the problem the high carb content in the wheat?  

[slowandsteady]

Is the problem the high carb content in the wheat?  

Mostly it's the gluten content of certain grains, especially wheat. For some informative discussion, you might read this post and this post from the Whole Health Source blog.

Dr. Davis of the track your plaque has found that his cardiac patients who give up wheat have far less of the small LDL particles that are problematic. He has 35 posts on wheat that you can peruse.

s&s

[LWillisjr]

In general I think that anything inflammatory will make it worse. For many people that would include gluten.
s&s

s&s,
I have to take exception here on the gluten discussion. My wife is Celiac and we are very familiar with gluten and it's effects. It is not an inflammatory. Gluten is a protein in wheat, barley, oats, and rye. I will agree that many people may suffer from this as proper diagnosis has only been improved in that last 4-8 years. So I agree that it does cause health issues and does so by affecting the cilia in the small intestine. But it is not via an inflammatory response mechanism.

[George999]

Gluten is a strange animal.  I agree that it can be a problem, but I also suspect it can be a rabbit trail.  There is new research indicating that gluten can trigger diabetes.  But the question is why?  I think the problem that we run into with gluten is the same as that which we run into with metoprolol and a number of other drugs that seem to set off Peyronie's.  It is all to easy to identify one of many triggers as "the" cause.  I think we would be better served by moving further upstream and dealing with whatever is causing gluten to have this effect on the body.  Whole wheat products carry with them tremendous health benefits of their own, and to write them all off simply due to gluten would be an overreaction.  IF one is currently reacting badly to gluten then by all means avoid it, but if not, deal with the upstream issues like potential vitamin D deficiency.  - George

[Fred22]

How does one know if one is having a "problem with gluten"?

[George999]

How does one know if one is having a "problem with gluten"?

I would say by stopping it for a period and then restarting it.  I have a family member who was struggling with diverticular problems which involves inflamed intestinal "pockets".  She was unable to eat anything with seeds as a result.  One of the things we tried was a gluten free (SCD) diet.  It worked, but it was a very difficult diet to keep.  You would be amazed at the number of foods that have gluten or similar substances in them.  Then she began increasing her vitamin D levels.  Now she is eating seeds without problems and without having to be on a gluten free diet.  So what I am trying to say is that often dietary methods sort of work, but sometimes we can find better ways to address the issues upstream and can avoid the more draconian solutions.  But the way to find out if your shredded wheat is causing a problem is to quit it for a month and see if it has positive effects.  If it does, you might be ahead by making a change.  If not, what can I say?  The more important issue to me is to make sure you are getting your gluten in whole food products, not processed foods.  So as long as your shredded wheat is made from whole wheat flour and does not have sugars and corn syrup added, I wouldn't worry about the gluten issue UNLESS it is obviously affecting you in a bad way.  - George

[LWillisjr]

How does one know if one is having a "problem with gluten"?

My wife found a specialist. For years she was having gastrointestinal issues. Would always need a tums after she ate, etc. She had an endoscopy and the doctor took a biopsy of the lining of her small intestine. He said this is the only test to know for sure. There is a blood test for Celiac disease but it very inaccurate. The biopsy is the only sure way to tell. Symptoms can range from being simply "gluten intolerant" to a total "gluten allergy".

It is also possible to have an allergy to wheat and wheat products. But this is NOT necessarily a gluten allergy. It is important not to confuse the two.

But the way to find out if your shredded wheat is causing a problem is to quit it for a month and see if it has positive effects.  If it does, you might be ahead by making a change.  If not, what can I say?  The more important issue to me is to make sure you are getting your gluten in whole food products, not processed foods.  So as long as your shredded wheat is made from whole wheat flour and does not have sugars and corn syrup added, I wouldn't worry about the gluten issue UNLESS it is obviously affecting you in a bad way.  - George

If you only stop the shredded wheat, then you can only tell if the shredded wheat is bothering you. If you suspect it is the gluten, you have to go on a totally gluten free diet which is very difficult. If you find the issue is truly with the gluten, then you have to stay gluten free. You can't go off of it and then back on. The gluten specific related problems will return.

[skunkworks]

In general I think that anything inflammatory will make it worse. For many people that would include gluten.
s&s

s&s,
I have to take exception here on the gluten discussion. My wife is Celiac and we are very familiar with gluten and it's effects. It is not an inflammatory. Gluten is a protein in wheat, barley, oats, and rye. I will agree that many people may suffer from this as proper diagnosis has only been improved in that last 4-8 years. So I agree that it does cause health issues and does so by affecting the cilia in the small intestine. But it is not via an inflammatory response mechanism.

Anything that is high GI, such as most foods containing wheat, will cause an insulin spike, which is undoubtedly inflammatory. Celiac disease is a whole different ballgame whereby intestinal bacteria is killed off via an allergy to gluten meaning little nutrition is absorbed, and in fact can offer some protection against type 2 diabetes. Bit of a Pyrrhic victory though.

[skunkworks]

Whole wheat products carry with them tremendous health benefits of their own, and to write them all off simply due to gluten would be an overreaction.  

What benefits?

[George999]

The benefits of whole wheat are legion, but here is one benefit that has been in the news lately:

Whole Grains, Bran May Fight Hypertension in Men

[George999]

Sensitivity to gluten does follow the allergic pathway which is different from the autoimmune pathway although both involve immune system dysfunction.  lwillisjr is correct in his comment that in order to detect a gluten allergy you have to eliminate ALL gluten containing foods which is indeed difficult.  In the case of autoimmune disease, the immune system causes tissue damage by attacking the body's own cells.  In the case of allergies the immune system causes inflammation and potential damage to the body's tissues by attacking inert external substances that pose no threat to the health of the body.  These both represent variations of immune dysfunction.  Once you resolve immune dysfunction itself, you eliminate both autoimmune issues AND allergies.  This is why people on LDN are reporting allergies being resolved along with autoimmune problems being resolved.  This is also why Vitamin D deficiency is being identified as being a risk factor for both autoimmune disease and allergic syndromes.  It used to be dogma that once a person is allergic to something, that allergy NEVER goes away.  That view is now changing as ways are being discovered to treat immune dysfunction.

As for GI (Gylcemic Index, NOT Gastro Intestinal) issues, only REFINED grain products are high GI.  Whole grain products typically are not.  Categorically eliminating whole food groups is not conducive to health UNLESS one has a specific problem related to that particular food group.  I really don't know about the shredded wheat.  There are some degree of variation in shredded wheat products.  Its a matter of reading the label.  Its also a matter of the serving size.  There are lots of very evil foods out there but they are almost invariably processed foods, the more processed, the more the problems.  I am just uncomfortable singling out something like shredded wheat on either a GI basis OR a gluten basis.  And I say this as one who has not eaten a shred of shredded wheat for probably close to thirty years so I have no great bias for shredded wheat.  I just think that the shredded wheat could be replaced by something far more insidious which can happen if we are not careful about how we evaluate food products.  - George

[Fred22]

I settled on shredded wheat because it was the only breakfast cereal I could find (at Kroger) that did not contain high fructose corn syrup or loads of sugar or both.  The shredded wheat that I eat has 1 ingredient; whole grain wheat.  It does, however, contain BHT as a preservative which some research has indicated might be linked to certain types of cancer.  BHT is also an antioxident which some people use to treat viral conditions such as Herpes.  Any thoughts on BHT?  Many people say that oatmeal is the best choice, but according to nutritiondata.com (don't know how reliable this site is, but looks pretty official), both oatmeal and shredded wheat are classified as "moderately inflammatory" and the "glycemic load" of each is about the same.  I was just reading about "steel cut" oats which is supposed to be a better choice.  I may have to check out the cereals at Whole Foods or other health food stores to see if I can find a better alternative.  I think that having a healthy whole grain cereal for breakfast is a good way of fulfilling your daily need for whole grains.  We also have brown rice a few times a week for dinner.  I do think that a healthy diet is a key component in the battle against Peyronies, but it's very difficult to achieve in this society.  

[George999]

Fred,  I think you are doing pretty well.  The problem becomes that when you get to intense about eliminating inflammatoriness or glycemicness, you end with not much more than water.  Most food have some degree of these seemingly less than desirable qualities.  But the reality is that the body actually needs a certain level of these qualities in order to survive.  The problem comes when we are starved for vitamin D + we are at the high end on both the inflammatory and glycemic indexes.  And that combination is fairly typical of the modern diet and lifestyle.  So I think you have done your homework here and you are not going to achieve a whole lot by shifting to steel cut oats, although they are a good choice as well.  Whole Foods probably carries Food For Life whole grain cereals and if you check their labels they will look good as well, but are they ahead of shredded wheat?  Probably not by a whole lot other than they (or the oats) will allow you to bypass the BHT.  Personally I don't like the additives like BHT, but here again, I think we can strain at the gnat and swallow the fly.  For years I have worried about all these kinds of things, only to discover that lack of vitamin D was probably causing my body more damage than all these things put together.  So should we be concerned about these things?  Yup, but not too much.  - George

[slowandsteady]

I am still adjusting to the way LDN affects my sleep. It does get in the way of deep sleep. I understand that this effect goes away after 2-3 weeks, but I needed to get a good night of sleep last night because it's been catching up on me. Still, so far so good on the inflammation front.

s&s

[newguy]

s&s - I'm pleased to hear that things are going well on the inflammation front. I may as well give it a whirl really, so I'll send off for some tomorrow. Since LDN appears to impact a specific window of time, do you think it would be suitable for a person with somewhat irregular sleeping hours (due to work)?  

[skunkworks]

The benefits of whole wheat are legion, but here is one benefit that has been in the news lately:

Whole Grains, Bran May Fight Hypertension in Men

On that website, the third article down was titled "Wheat Consumption May Contribute to Diabetes".

I personally have now removed wheat, potato and rice from my diet. So far this has increased morning erections. I wish there was a quick way to test inflammation.

[slowandsteady]

do you think it would be suitable for a person with somewhat irregular sleeping hours (due to work)?

My best guess is that 11pm is the best time (I don't know that the natural endorphin schedule is thrown off by sleep time). On the other hand many have taken it successfully in the morning, judging from the yahoo group posts.

s&s

[Hawk]

I personally have now removed wheat, potato and rice from my diet. So far this has increased morning erections.

Do I understand that you are attributing morning erections to the elimination of wheat, rice, and potatoes ?

[George999]

The benefits of whole wheat are legion, but here is one benefit that has been in the news lately:

Whole Grains, Bran May Fight Hypertension in Men

On that website, the third article down was titled "Wheat Consumption May Contribute to Diabetes".

I personally have now removed wheat, potato and rice from my diet. So far this has increased morning erections. I wish there was a quick way to test inflammation.

I would suggest that before anyone remove wheat from there diet, they READ both of the above referenced articles.  The second one has NOTHING to do with an inflammatory response, rather it has to do with a rare ALLERGIC response to wheat in some young people that may TRIGGER TYPE 1 diabetes.  It think it can be dangerous to make dietary shifts based on the impressions of headlines alone.  Here is the link:  Wheat Consumption May Contribute to Diabetes  READ the article before simply assuming that it means the wheat is somehow inflammatory.  Ditto for any other food.  REFINED carbohydrates ARE inflammatory.  Whole food carbohydrates are NOT.  - George

[Tim468]

What is interesting is that wheat proteins triggered this response. I wonder if a load of exposure makes it worse - IOW if lots of wheat adds to the risk, or if refinement adds to it. A refined carbo load in the diet is associated with an increased risk of diabetes - but this study only looked at people who already had diabetes.

Tim

[George999]

What is interesting is that wheat proteins triggered this response. I wonder if a load of exposure makes it worse - IOW if lots of wheat adds to the risk, or if refinement adds to it. A refined carbo load in the diet is associated with an increased risk of diabetes - but this study only looked at people who already had diabetes.

Tim

Its the consequence of an allergic reaction.  Allergic reactions only happen when there are underlying immune issues.  It is not normal for the immune system to attack non-pathogenic proteins.  - George

[skunkworks]

I personally have now removed wheat, potato and rice from my diet. So far this has increased morning erections.

Do I understand that you are attributing morning erections to the elimination of wheat, rice, and potatoes ?

As someone who has a definite problem with glucose and insulin, yes. The removal of those foods has caused a positive change in my erections.

If you are only eating low GI wheat products, then that would definitely be an improvement on what is normally consumed.

[newguy]

I saw a post on imminst.org leading to this page:

http://addiandcassi.com/year/the-real-curcumin-for-treating-alzheimer%E2%80%99s-parkinson%E2%80%99s-and-other-brain-disease

It discusses what is called a "super optimized curcumin" used at UCLA and a parents quest to get access to it. I am suspicious of these things, but if we can find the actual study elsewhere confirming its bioavailability then it could be something that's useful to us.

Further information here: http://downsyndromejourney.forumotion.com/down-syndrome-awareness-f12/longvida-curcumin-information-t1300.htm

Found this too:

Dear Margaret:

Recently, a solid lipid nanoparticle formulation of curcumin has become available.

The formulation was developed in the labs of two professors at UCLA:

Professor Sally A. Frautschy http://alzheimer.neurology.ucla.edu/Frautschy.html
Professor Greg M. Cole http://alzheimer.neurology.ucla.edu/Cole.html

This formulation is described in detail in a patent application, PCT/US07/05829 (WO/2007/103435) http://tinyurl.com/3eaegw
Bioavailable Curcuminoid Formulations for Treating Alzheimer's Disease and Other Age-Related Disorders.

The Regents of the University of California http://tinyurl.com/2bztov have licensed it to:

Verdure Sciences, Inc.
1250 East Conner Street
Noblesville, IN 46060
info@vs-corp.com

This formulation has eleven times greater bioavailabiity in the plasma when tested in rodents (see note 1).

Verdure has trademarked this formulation as Curcuminol M3Cx and Longvida. It is available in 500 mg capsules, and these may be obtained by contacting Blake Ebersole @ 317-219-0355 at Verdure. E-mail bebersole@vs-corp.com You can ask him to fax the forms a customer needs to fill-out to obtain the capsules. It is sold in packages of 100 capsules for $59.99. A 400 capsule package is available, too.

Although curcumin has been given in clinical trials in doses as high as 12 grams a day with only minimal toxicity (note 2), I would reason that 4 grams (8 x 500 mg capsules) might be the optimal dose.

Pharmanza Herbals Pvt. Limited, which is Verdure's production facility in India, http://www.verduresciences.de/index.php?nav=2&lang=en, is acting as the sponsor for a trial of this curcumin formulation for advanced osteosarcoma at:

Tata Memorial Hospital
Advanced Centre for Treatment, Research and Education in Cancer (ACTREC)
Pilot Study of Curcumin Formulation and Ashwagandha Extract in Advanced Osteosarcoma (OSCAT)
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00689195
Manish Agarwal, M.D. 011-91-22-2417-7184 mgagarwal@gmail.com
Vikram S. Gota, M.D. 011-91-22-2417-7000 ext 4537 vikramgota@gmail.com

I spoke with Dr. Gota in July who told me that this formulation seemed effective in the early results from the trial. They are using a 4 gram/day dose.

Regards,

David Corbin

REFERENCES

1) Curcumin structure-function, bioavailability, and efficacy in models of neuroinflammation and Alzheimer's disease.
Begum AN, Jones MR, Lim GP, Morihara T, Kim P, Heath DD, Rock CL, Pruitt MA, Yang F, Hudspeth B, Hu S, Faull KF, Teter B, Cole GM, Frautschy SA.
J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 2008 Jul,326(1):196-208.
http://pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=18417733

The inference I suppose is that the curcumin used in the study (1) is the curcumin formulation in question. It might be worth having a read through it to see if it actually is much more effective than the methods we're using right now and whether its something worth exploring further.

[George999]

Vitamin D2 is the prescription form sold with a large mark up by the pharmaceutical companies.  Doctors have been taught for eons that it is the "better" form of vitamin D.  The reality is just the opposite.  Vitamin D researchers have demonstrated repeatedly that only D3 is optimally effective in humans.  Now, finally, docs are catching on.  Their response has been to finally specify "D3" in their prescriptions.  So what do the pharmaceutical companies do?  Well they label their D2 as being D3!  And they explain that they are using the term D3 as a "brand name" to describe their D2.  So don't assume that the "D3" you are getting from the pharmacy is actually D3.  - George

The Story of the Fake D3

[Fred22]

George,

I clicked on your "Fake D2" link and read with interest.  as I was perusing the page I noticed a list at the left of the screen and saw "wheat" under "blog archives".  What I found were horror stories regarding the consumption of any wheat products.  Shredded wheat was actually singled out as very bad for human consumption relating to high glycemic index, weight gain, wheat addiction, etc., etc.  Have you read this part of the blog?  It has made me think that I should not only give up my shredded wheat for breakfast, but all bread and grain products, including rice, barley, etc.  Check it out if you get a chance and let me know what you think.

Fred

[George999]

Fred,  I think a part of the problem is that most wheat cereal products, while they claim to be whole something or other, are not actually true whole grain products.  There are a lot of refined foods that have the same problem as the vitamin D2/D3.  They are claiming to be something they are not.  So if you have any doubt, make a switch.  Personally, I don't consume a lot of cereal and the cereal I do consume is the Food for life products which are multi-grain, unadulterated and minimally processed.  - George

PS - Wheat Bellies ... Good find!

[jayhawk]

George,
I had my Vitamin D level checked  after taking 2000 IU per day for 60 days, the results were as follows;
Vitamin D, 25 OH total 47
Vitamin D, 25 OH D< 4
Vitamin D, 25 OH, D3
Not sure what this indicates!  Do you think I should increase my intake level  or leave it as is? I know you have talked about ranges around 70.
Thanks,
Jayhawk  

[slowandsteady]

George,
I had my Vitamin D level checked  after taking 2000 IU per day for 60 days, the results were as follows;
Vitamin D, 25 OH total 47

Which lab did you use? Hopefully not Quest. If you did use Quest, divide your result by 1.3 for your actual result, and (I'd recommend) double your dosage and get retested in another couple of months. If you used a different lab, you're in pretty good shape, though I'd consider a slight increase to 2500 IU daily just to get over 50 ng/dl. I'm in the low 60's myself taking 7500 IU/day.

s&s

[Fred22]

PS - Wheat Bellies ... Good find!

Yeah, man I sure don't want one of those!!

[George999]

George,
I had my Vitamin D level checked  after taking 2000 IU per day for 60 days, the results were as follows;
Vitamin D, 25 OH total 47

Which lab did you use? Hopefully not Quest. If you did use Quest, divide your result by 1.3 for your actual result, and (I'd recommend) double your dosage and get retested in another couple of months. If you used a different lab, you're in pretty good shape, though I'd consider a slight increase to 2500 IU daily just to get over 50 ng/ml. I'm in the low 60's myself taking 7500 IU/day.

s&s

jay,  I pretty much agree with s&s's assessment.  50 to 70ng/ml is considered optimal according to the vitamin D docs, but I am trying to get my levels up as close as possible to the upper limit.  I seem to recall reading somewhere that the NIH admits that they really haven't seen any cases of toxicity below 400ng/ml although I certainly would not advocate going over the 110ng level for something like Peyronies.  - George

[George999]

Well guys, I just got a tentative diagnoses of multiple sclerosis today which puts me in an interesting position.  That 1) makes it more likely that I will be able to get an above board prescription for LDN and 2) will enable me to observe its long term effects on Peyronie's AND to have Dr Lue following me during that time (hopefully!).  I am really hopeful that LDN will prove effective for Peyronie's.  - George

[skunkworks]

Well guys, I just got a tentative diagnoses of multiple sclerosis today which puts me in an interesting position.  That 1) makes it more likely that I will be able to get an above board prescription for Low Dose Naltrexone and 2) will enable me to observe its long term effects on Peyronie's AND to have Dr Lue following me during that time (hopefully!).  I am really hopeful that Low Dose Naltrexone will prove effective for Peyronie's.  - George

You might find this interesting George:

http://darwinstable.wordpress.com/2008/11/21/the-paleo-diet-and-multiple-sclerosis/

All the best with putting together a good treatment plan for the MS, there are some effective treatments available these days.

[nemo]

Gosh, George, I'm very sorry to hear that.  I certainly know you will attack it with everything at your disposal, and we'll all be pulling for you.

Nemo