ORAL TREATMENTS - GENERAL - Vitamins, Prescriptions , Herbs, Supplements

[George999]

Well, isn't that fascinating?  Thanks Hitman.  Omega 3's are anti-inflammatory and Omega 6's are inflammatory.  That is a known thing.  High levels of Omega 3's are found in Flax Oil, Fish Oil, Canola Oil, etc.  They certainly won't hurt and may indeed help, just watch out for possible dangerous cholesterol numbers if you tend to have that problem.  - George

[jackisback]

MSM:

Good for Peyronie's or bad for Peyronie's?

What do you think?

[joe]

I have a bottle of pills with Glucosamine, Chondroitin , and MSM all together.  I took it before I had peyronie's and definitely noticed that it helped my shoulder feel smoother.  However, twice in the past year I decided to start taking it and after a few weeks I noticed that the peyronie's flared up - so I quit because that was the only thing I could think of that was different.  These could just be coincidences though, it's hard to tell.  Especially since the internet claims that MSM helps reduce scar tissue, so I'd think it would help.  I am tempted to try taking it again and see if it helps.

[jackisback]

I too took Glucosamine Chronditin and MSM probably for less than a year before i started to develop Peyronie's.  I definitely will not ever touch the GC again no matter what, and sometimes my knees pop, but oh well, i'll have to get them strong naturally.

i just googled msm scar tissue, and the first hit, while it does say that msm removes scar tissue it also says "It's used in the formation of collagen -- the "lattice" framework the cells fit in. Because of that, it's required in large quantities. It's a "macro mineral", not a trace mineral. (Vitamin C is a "macro vitamin", for the same reason.)"

I'd say that if someone's at risk for Pey (i guess you'd only know if your family had it, otherwise you're not likely to be educated on the risk factors), they should stay away from it all. But it looks like the verdict may still be out on MSM

[George999]

Guys,  I have said this before and I will say it again.  Most of our body tissues are loaded with Collagen.  The problem in fibrosis and Peyronies has nothing to do with "too much" or "too little" Collagen.  It has to do with the body MISUSING Collagen.  Thus all the worries about supplements and drugs that affect Collagen are misplaced.  There ARE drugs and supplements that, for example, affect things like oxygen supply to Collagen rich tissues and other things like levels or systemic inflammation that affect the amount of Cytokines floating around in our tissues and THOSE are the substances that we should be aware of.  But just because a substance stimulates are inhibits Collagen accumulation does not make it necessarily good or bad.  We have to look further at WHAT KIND of accumulation it stimulates or inhibits.  Going further than supplements and drugs, our food is FULL of substances that affect Collagen metabolism.   That is why we should be at least as worried about what we are eating as we are about what kind of drugs and supplements we are taking.  - George

[hornman]

Pycnogenol-  Has anyone experienced any benefit from this herb?  Supposedly it works  with Arginnine to increase Nitric Oxide production.  May help with ED if not with Peyronies.  Expensive stuff, but I see some good sales online.  What do you think? Snakeoil?  

[nemo]

I've started taking Pycnogenol with my arginine (and ALC/PLC) on the theory that it can't hurt.  I haven't noticed anything erection wise in excess of what the agr/ALC/PLC were already doing (or more likely the Pentox) but it'd probably too soon for me to tell.  There are a few studies online that say arginine and pycnogenol make a good treatment for ED.

Nemo

[jackisback]

I agree George. I think it's important to eat healthy, organic and vegetables if possible, although I'm really just speculating.

I feel that coffee may be one of the worst things for this too.

But George, don't you agree that Glucosamine is not good for this condition? I'm not sure about MSM. I think I stopped using MSM and Glucosamine at the same time, and I certainly didn't see any immediate difference.

[beginer]

Hello forum, I have just realized my case of peyronies, I have had it for only 20 days or so, I was wondering from everyones knowledge what would be the most powerful regimine of drugs and supplements to potentially cure or at least lesson the severity of this in my early stage?

Also I noticed some people mentioned a candian pharmacy where we can get pentox without a script, can anyone get that link for me.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Beg.  

[George999]

Jack,  I really don't know about Glucosamine.  If there is some sort of pattern of people taking Glucosamine and then getting Peyronies, of course, that is a problem.  So while I understand your reluctance to take it again after your experience, it doesn't necessarily prove a link.  I just recently developed severe leg pain and eventually suspected it might be linked to a supplement I was taking.  I eventually traced it to ALC/Vitamin B6 combination and even proved it out to myself by stopping and starting the supp and noting the effects.  And of course I posted a warning here about it.  Only to discover via an thorough exam by my primary physician that the root of the problem is really tied to a minor back injury that is inflaming some nerves in my leg.  As I reflected on his assessment, I just happened to remember that just a few weeks prior to the problem I had undertaken a concrete job complete with bending commercial grade rebar.  (That would put a little extra stress on my lower back!)  I am just telling this to demonstrate how easy it is to link cause and effect without really knowing what in fact is going on behind the scenes.  So I think if there are patterns that surface with multiple people having the same problem, or if there are studies demonstrating a link in a controlled environment that is one thing, but we do have to be careful not to make conclusions to quickly.  And, oh, by the way, I am back on both ALC and B6 and not having any resultant leg pain.  - George

PS - Actually there is a lot of chatter on the net with multiple people claiming to observe Peyronies Disease/DC issues with Glucosamine.  That WOULD be a red flag to me although I would question the idea of a Collagen connection.  There very well could be some other effect that Glucosamine is having that is the cause of the problem if it exists.  Glucosamine also has a reputation for fighting inflammation.  That also should mean it should be good for Peyronies.  But various substances have MULTIPLE SIMULTANEOUS EFFECTS.  Glucosamine could also have a damaging effect specifically on connective tissue that it does not have on other tissues.  But with all the banter out there noting perceived problems with it, I would indeed use caution.  AND if ANYTHING SEEMS to be causing you a problem, quit it until you figure it out.

[wayne999]

Would 1000IU of vitamin E per day be enough or is a  stronger dose required? I think i've read people here taking 3000IU but you would probably need a prescription to get it that strong?

Am i also right in thinking that any oral or topical medications would be of no use to someone who has had Peyronies Disease for say anywhere between 5 and 7 years? I'm pretty sure my Peyronies Disease has stabilized but recently ive been getting very slight dull aches in my penis after masturbation.

[jackisback]

elected nutritional intervention by increasing intake of omega-3 fatty acids and lowering intake of omega-6 fatty acids.

I wish I had read that more closely. I just bought some Vitality Omega Man, which is very expensive at the store. It has some stuff on the bottle with claims about helping sexual health, but we have to look at this through a different prism I suppose (it has much omega-6 and 9 as well i believe).

Guess I'll save the stuff and maybe use it in the future. Anyways, I like the Omega stuff sold at Central Market. It goes well into shakes, although they make it seem that it must be refrigerated even before opening b/c they refrigerate it at the store and they jack up the price I think because now I see that this stuff is sold on the internet for I think more than a small amount less money. Anybody know if this kind of stuff loses its potency if not refrigerated--even before opening the bottle?

[Bob22]

Hey guys,
I am hoping for some advice here.  I'm 22 have had stabalized peyronies for about five years.  I have no curvature, however have loss of size and firmness and infrequent nocturnal erections.  I don't have a problem getting an erection when i try, but sometimes maintaining it is a problem and firmness varies.  If i need to 50 mg of viagra is sufficient.  I have not seen a doctor for this. My goal right now is to keep bloodflow at a maximum.  I was thinking pentox, L-Arg, and VED therapy.  Any advice on anything or pentox doses would be appreciated.  L-arg has recently helped with nocturnal erections, but I have just started with that.  How would i know if i have some sort of venous leak too?

[jackp]

Bob22
Welcome, you are in the right place. 22 is a very young age to start Peyronies. Have you been to a good Urologist?
To help the shrinkage go to the VED section and talk to Old Man. There is a 26 week program that works.
As for Venous Leakage you need a Urologist to to a Color Doppler to know for sure.
Good Luck
Wayne999
When I started Vitamin E in 1995 was on 400 IU three times a day. Go to a good source usually the Big Box stores carry inferior quality. Go somewhere like GNC or other health food source.
Hope this helps.
Jackp

[LWillisjr]

Bob22,
Just curious,
1. how did you diagnose the Peyronie's, or what was the basis for the diagnosis?
2. What do you think it is stablized?

[Bob22]

a couple of clarifications.  I got peyronies not naturally but from a sex incident.  I initially had visibile lumps and inflammation, but I dont get these lumps that you can touch anymore.   I do not have curvature, but my angle is different than it was before the incident if that makes sense and do have partial bottlenecking.  My condition has not continually worsened over the years so in that sense I say it has stabalized but some days/weeks are better than others.  My main problem is firmness, maintaining an erection sometimes, and infrequent nocturnal erections.  Overall, I lack elasticity and need to restore a healthy blood supply.  22 is young for peyronies, but it did not come on naturally.

I have not been to a uro, but my self diagnosis of peyronies comes from 1) trauma to the penis 2) lack of elasticity and rigidity 3) infrequent nocturnal erections 4) bottlenecking

My plan is 100 mg pentox, 3-5 g of L arg, ved therapy.  Comments?

[George999]

Would 1000IU of vitamin E per day be enough or is a  stronger dose required? I think i've read people here taking 3000IU but you would probably need a prescription to get it that strong?

Am i also right in thinking that any oral or topical medications would be of no use to someone who has had Peyronies Disease for say anywhere between 5 and 7 years? I'm pretty sure my Peyronies Disease has stabilized but recently ive been getting very slight dull aches in my penis after masturbation.

Wayne,  I have taken close to 3000IU of broad spectrum E before as an experiment.  I did this for close to three months.  It can cause you to bleed excessively so you need to take Vitamin K and in some individuals it may not be safe even with Vitamin K.  It can also cause damage to your arteries so you need to be taking Vitamin C as well.  In my case, it worked spectacularly for a few days and then there was a tolerance effect and it was no more beneficial than 800-1000IU.  So I DONT RECOMMEND MORE THAN 1000IU of Vitamin E.  Its not going to help you to take more and it could harm you.  As for the 5 to 7 year thing, I don't think personally that Peyronies ever really stabilizes and I don't think it is ever a good course of action to leave it untreated.  - George

[wayne999]

Bob22
Welcome, you are in the right place. 22 is a very young age to start Peyronies. Have you been to a good Urologist?
To help the shrinkage go to the VED section and talk to Old Man. There is a 26 week program that works.
As for Venous Leakage you need a Urologist to to a Color Doppler to know for sure.
Good Luck
Wayne999
When I started Vitamin E in 1995 was on 400 IU three times a day. Go to a good source usually the Big Box stores carry inferior quality. Go somewhere like GNC or other health food source.
Hope this helps.
Jackp

jackp:
Do you have to find some real specific type of vitamin E? Moreover, will this one be ok:
http://www.blackmores.com.au/products/Detail.aspx?ProductId=1911

Although from quickly reading:
http://peyronies-disease-help.com/treatmentvitamine.html

it seems to suggest that the alpha type ones aren't what you should get?? i'm also bearing in mind that none of this stuff has any real proper scientific proof
So is it ok to go for that Blackmores product or do you need something more specific ?

Also, you probably shouldn't take vit E if taking pentox because the latter is a blood thinner?  So should target #1 be to try get a prescription for Pentox ? and Pentox would only be taken for maybe a few months? Because the following site apparently documented calcification removal after using Pentox for 2 years:
http://www.nature.com/ncpuro/journal/v3/n2/fig_tab/ncpuro0409_F3.html

Also, does Pentox just help with pain or is it also supposed to help with curvature etc? I understand its a blood thinner. Am I also right in thinking that it is unikely to be prescribed if the "chronic" phase has been entered into? Or could there still be some hope for longer term sufferers of Peyronies Disease with Pentox?

George999: Yes I don't want to go "overboard" with anything either. I want to get as best informed as I can over the next week before seeing the uro.

[George999]

Wayne,  What you should be looking for in a Vitamin E is something that contains a lot of Gamma Tocopherol.  The only place that I can see that carries such a product in Australia is:

VIBRABODY CITY

ENDOTA MELBOURNE
69 FLINDERS LANE
MELBOURNE  3000
PH (03) 8616 0453

They are basically a  health and exercise products store and they seem to sell something called "Perfect E" described on their web page as follows:

Perfect E

Size: 60 softgels

Recommended Use : As a dietary supplement, take one softgel per day or as directed by your health care practitioner. WARNING: Consult your health care practitioner before use if you are taking blood thinning medication or have a history of rheumatic heart disease.

Benefits:

   * Antioxidant
   * Mixed tocopherols (d-alpha, d-gamma, d-delta, d-beta)
   * Anti-inflammatory

Product Ingredients: each tablet contains :

   * Vitamin E (as d-alpha tocopherol) 400 IU
   * d-gamma tocopherol 440 mg
   * d-delta tocopherol 147 mg
   * d-beta tocopherol 11mg

Other Ingredients: Softgel (gelatin, glycerin, purified water), sesame seed oil.

There is much scientific evidence that Gamma Tocopherol is more beneficial than Alpha Tocopherol, but no real scientific evidence that either is specifically beneficial for Peyronies.

It is possible to safely take Vitamin E with Pentox, I and many others are doing so.  BUT, you need to be extra careful not to take to much Vitamin E with Pentox since both do present bleeding issues, albeit by different pathways.  Vitamin E inhibits coagulation whereas Pentox inhibits platelet aggregation.

In any case, Peyronies treatment with Pentox is a long term project.  There are currently NO short term fixes for Peyronies period.  Any product advertised as a cure or short term treatment for Peyronies is a guaranteed scam.  I would certainly not think that taking Pentox for five years or more would be unusual when using it for Peyronies.  - George

[jackp]

Bob22
I don't know the exact content of the Vitamin E I was taking it has been over a year now. I started taking it in 1995 and followed my uro's advice and went to GNC and avoided the big box stores. He seemed to think the big box stores did not carry the quality of product GNC and other health food stores carried.
All I can tell you is I started Vitamin E 400IU three times a day and Potaba in 1995 and within 12-18 month my curve corrected. When the curve corrected I stopped the Potaba but continued the E on Dr.'s advice.
Good Luck my fiend.
Jackp
PS
George999 has done more research on this. He seems to be on to something.

[Kimo]

 Bob,,,,Jackp,,I also used the Vita-E from GNC,,,it's the best quality..Make sure its a natural,,made from soy...Most others are made from a petrolium product.   I used the natural vita-E along with the Topical Verapamil and achieved very good results,,  ONe thing i will say about the vita-e tho,,,i was on it for too long, [ a few years], and i started getting dizzy and light headed a lot,,,,when i found out that it was also a blood thinner...so i stopped taking it and the dizzy symptoms went away,,I was probably on it for too long and maybe should have taken breaks away from it..

But this i do know ,,it did help me recover from a bad curve and now i am almost straight, with only a slight bend upwards.. This only my opinion and my experience...I hope the best for all of you. Always feel free to write me and i will try to answer any questions i can....

AS with anything be careful about how much you take,,you can even take too much vita-e...I was on 800 in for a few years and then dropped it down to 400 iu and then eventually had to stop that..

Kimo

[wayne999]

To both Kimo and jackp:

You both reported positive results from vit E. I was wondering, how long had you had your Peyronies Disease/curvature when you started taking vit E? And what sort of improvement in terms of degrees did you see?

[jackp]

wayne999
Stretching a small thing a long way (Pun Intended) Mind that is!
As I remember it; after first discovering the curve while on vacation a few weeks later (maybe 6 or so) I had a prostate infection and went to the uro for that.
After the DRE he was about leave when I asked about the curve. He examined me and said I had peyronies. That was 1995. I was on Vitamin E from then until about a year ago.
As for improvement curve straightened in 12-18 months. But that left me 1.25 inches shorter. uro said nothing could be done to regain length. Fortunately girth is about the same as before peyronies.
I am now using Old Mans VED routine and have gained back between 1/4 and 1/2 inches over the last 10 months or so. Wish I had known then and maybe the penile shortening could have been helped then. The scar tissue on top of my penis prevents me from gaining more.
Good Luck on your journey.
Jackp

[Ticker]

George999,I just received my prescription of Pentox yesterday and i will take 400mg 3 times a day.I was taking 900 iu of Vitamin E daily.500 at night and 400 in the morning.also I am using verapamil cream 2 times a day and I am into my 14th week of VED.Do you have any recommendations for me?Should I lower my Vitamin E intake to 400 daily? Thank You,Ticker

[beginer]

Ticker,

Just wondering if you have noticed any imporvements, how long have you had Peyronies Disease and what degrees is your curve? I am new at this as it looks like maybe you are just trying to see how its affecting others.

Thanks
Beg.  

[George999]

George999,I just received my prescription of Pentox yesterday and i will take 400mg 3 times a day.I was taking 900 iu of Vitamin E daily.500 at night and 400 in the morning.also I am using verapamil cream 2 times a day and I am into my 14th week of VED.Do you have any recommendations for me?Should I lower my Vitamin E intake to 400 daily? Thank You,Ticker

I would have to defer to your doctor on that one.  Everybody responds to Vitamin E differently AND different formulations of Vitamin E can possibly produce different effects.  At this point I am taking a lot of E with Pentox, but only Gamma Tocopherol, not Alpha Tocopherol.  I have never actually taken Alpha Tocopherol with Pentox so I have no personal experience to draw on.  I DO know that there can be bleeding issues.  I also know that taking Vitamin K concurrently can help to alleviate those issues along with perhaps other potential side effects.  From what I have heard, taking 400IU along with Pentox is probably safe *for most people* and up to 800IU *may* be OK.  I would be a little more nervous beyond that.  But, again, I think your physician can best advise you on that and he can also do some objective testing that would tell him exactly how your body is responding to the Vitamin E in this regard.  I highly recommend doctors in dealing with these kinds of questions, they are really a great resource and often an underutilized one.  - George

[hornman]

I just got back from my URO.  He wants me off all oral supplements including vit E for a couple weeks to see how things go.  He says they don't help and may even hurt.  I take L-arginnine, L-carnithine, E, horny goat weed, fish oil, low dose aspirin.  He said to think about trying topical Verapamil and get back to him in a couple weeks.  hmmmm. ?

[nemo]

Jeez ... a doctor pulling you off supps in favor of topical verapamil ... I'd laugh if I wasn't starting to cry ... that's pathetic.  Sounds like he and my Uro went to the same school!

Nemo

[nemo]

San Vasoflow is a time released L Arginine that I understand is considered to be top of the line.  You can get it at Bodybuilding.com.  It's in these nasty purple capsules that are coated in some kind of foul tasting oil ... but it's supposed to be good stuff, quality wise.  I've been using it for about 6 months.  

Nemo

[Iceman]

george999 -

just came back from my health supplement shop and was going to buy a supplement called NOX 3X - its a nitric oxide booster - it contains Arginine-AlphaKetoGlutarate- heres the link: http://www.bodyscience.com.au/page/supplements/flypage/product_id/181

Its from a company called BSC .....do you know about this and can you recoomend this.

thx

[Kimo]

Wayne999

My time frame was almost the same as Jackp,,,it was about 10 to 12 months when i seen good results from taking vita-E and using the topical verapamil..  
kimo

[wayne999]

Wayne999

My time frame was almost the same as Jackp,,,it was about 10 to 12 months when i seen good results from taking vita-E and using the topical verapamil..  
kimo

Kimo:
Do you mean you immediately started taking vit-E and topical verapamil after you noticed the Peyronies Disease and it took 10 to 12 months to see good results? Or how long after you first noticed or got diagnosed with Peyronies Disease did you start taking the vita-E ?

George999:
It seems that Perfect E supplement isn't available to be ordered online for delivery to other parts of the country. Looks like I will just go with an alpha tocopherol. The wiki page on vit E says that the alpha type is well tested and the other types are not well understood ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_E

[George999]

Wayne,  I think the concern is that recent research is indicating that only Gamma Tocopherol extinguishes nitrogen free radicals.  Alpha Tocopherol does the same with oxygen free radicals and when one takes only Alpha Tocopherol, the body becomes depleted of Gamma Tocopherol, thus potentially exposing one to cellular damage from nitrogen free radicals.  That is why I recently switched to the Gamma form as opposed to the mixed form.  However, in looking into this further as a result of your post, I discovered that the Gamma form also carries risks.  Too much of the Gamma form can also cause cell damage by preventing proper protein folding.  This is an issue that can actually result in things like Parkinson's and Diabetes.  (Study looks at how two forms of vitamin E affect the health of animal cells).  This may explain why people with a diet high in corn products have more risks of things like Parkinson's.  (Gamma Tocopherol is extracted mainly from corn and soy oils.)  Now that I know this, I will probably be shifting back to the full spectrum type that I was taking before.  It seemed to be at least as helpful for the Peyronies issue as the Gamma form and definitely better than the Alpha form in isolation.  In any case, ongoing research is just now unraveling the mysteries of the effects of vitamin E on the human body.  - George

[Kimo]

Wayne999,,,,I was about 6 months into a bad case of peyronies when my doctor prescribed that i take vita-E and use the Topical Verapamil and then it was 3 months when things started to change for the better and at 5 months i was almost straight,,i figure  that i regained about 85% back to straight,,good enough for sex with the wife...Then a couple of years later i went back on the topical V for a whole 12 months to see if it would get me all the way straight....Well, it helped in that it disolved all of my plaque that was left and i straightened a little more,,,,but i am still bent a little up about one inch from the tip of my penis and i have a little hour glass effect from where the plaque was,,which is only scar tissue now...

Hope this helps,,,,,kimo

[alcohen]

I am now on Trental.  I went to see Dr. Culley Carson at UNC Hospital.  He told me that he felt no scarring or plaque.  However, there is a very large and grooved, ridged and thick cord-looking line that goes from the base of my penis to near the tip.  This unfortunately is only visible when erect.  I am coming back to do a test (I forgot the name) where they will prick my penis at some point and cause me to have an erection in his office so that he can look at it.  It has been 2 1/2 months now since I began to have my problem and the pain has only continued to intensify.  I was told to take motrin for pain and to begin Trental.  He said that though he didn't see any plaque now he was goin to begin as if I did have Peyronies and said that it sounded likely from my description of my hourglass-looking problems.  

Now the pain is unbearable.  I have now taken 3 Trental pills.  One yesterday and two today.  I work part time at Best Buy while I am in school.  If I am completely stationary there is no pain.  Unfortunately, whenever I move in ANY WAY AT ALL, there is excruciating pain in my penis wherever it is brushing against my clothes.  This pain is not just relegated to wherever the head of my penis is touching any article of clothing....  It effects any part of it at all!!!  I left early today and stuck a piece of styrofoam from a tv box in my mouth and bit down as hard as I could just to make it to my car.  It hurts THAT BAD.  I went to the bathroom at one point and looked just to see if anything was going on.  As has been the norm for me whenever I start to feel pain and have a chance to look at it, I had a clear hourglass looking indentation.  

The pain that had continued to worsen slightly ever since the onset of my problem has now seemed to really be ramped up.  My penis feels like it is on fire.  If I sit still though I feel perfect.  As soon as I move....bam.  Awful pain.  

How do I deal with this?  Is this the Trental affecting me?  I don't understand what is happening and I have nowhere to turn.  The Motrin is done nothing and I just can't take much more of this.  My college starts back on Monday and I have so much stuff to get ready and my classes are going to be very hard.  This is destroying my life.  I will try to call Dr. Carson's office at UNC Hospital tomorrow to see if this is normal for this drug?  I hadn't recalled anybody saying this before on the forum here.  

Also, is it worse that my scars are only visible when I have an erection?  My scar is dead center on my penis, not on the side in any way.  I am so scared.  Everything just keeps falling apart for me.

[Iceman]

Alcohen:

Take it easy - I too was in heaps of pain - try to but L Arginine and Acetyle L Carnitine TODAY!!!!!!!!!! - this can help with the pain..

[Iceman]

old man - how do I get my hands of topical verapamil??
Can you get it over the counter??

[George999]

alcohen,  Peyronies pain can be very intense.  What you are experiencing is VERY unlikely to be a result of the Trental.  The Trental should actually be reducing the pain, but it will take a few weeks for it to build up in your blood stream and become effective.  The first three pills are not really going to have any noticible effect.  I would definitely keep taking the Trental but DO let the doc know what is going on.  Iceman is also giving you good advice here.  L Arg and ALC are both helpful and I would add full spectrum vitamin E as well.  But this burning pain you are experiencing IS very typical of Peyronies initial onset.  You are catching it early and that is good, but do keep pouring on the Trental.  - George

[Iceman]

GEORGE:

what do you think of this product - in your opinion would it help??

http://www.bodyscience.com.au/page/supplements/flypage/product_id/181

thx

[George999]

Iceman,  I don't know.  I am personally Arginine resistant and the only Arginine product that has worked for me is VasoFlow.  Many guys with Peyronies are NOT Arginine resistant.  So you would have to get an answer from one of them, since nothing has really worked for me but VasoFlow.  Wish I could be more help, but I just have no real personal experience to draw on and Arginine is not one of my strong points in terms of knowledge.  - George

[Iceman]

Does anyone know of these supplements combined and their effectiveness;
Arginine-Alphaketoglutarate (A-AKG) Arginine-Ketoisocaproate (A-KIC) L-Arginine Monohydrate

[Old Man]

Iceman:

I have no idea where your can get topical verapamil. There are several on the forum that have used it. Maybe they can tell you where it is available. At one time, a company in Texas made it, but I am sure if they still do it or not. I think the name was PDL Labs or something like that.

Sorry, I was not able to help.

Old Man

[wayne999]

Does anyone know of these supplements combined and their effectiveness;
Arginine-Alphaketoglutarate (A-AKG) Arginine-Ketoisocaproate (A-KIC) L-Arginine Monohydrate

What do you think about
http://www.thesupplementden.com.au/shop/musashi-arginine-75g.html

I see most people saying something like they take 1000mg of L-Argentice....yet that above site says you can take a few grams?

[Lazer]

Hello,  just  wanted to add this.  My Urologist specializes in sexual dysfuntions and diseases and he told me that Verapamil ointment does not work because the skin of the penis has very poor absorbtion qualities.  Thanks.

[beginer]

does anyone know a link to get pentox without a prescription, if so can you please IM me or post it.

thanks
B

[Tim468]

Iceman,

I am not familiar with those supplements - could you post more about why you asked?

Wayne,

I used close to 3 grams per day, and I think that way back about 2 years ago, we had some discussion about dose-response and the rationale for higher doses. I think the consensus was to try higher doses gradually, and to work up to them as tolerated, in order to give it as good a shot as possible. I ended up buying empty capsules and capping my own capsules with bulk powder to save money. It was sort of a good meditative process - to sit and fill capsule for later consumption (I got a capsule filling rack that allowed me to do about 100 at a time). However, it had no discernible effect on my Peyronies.

beginer,

Your post raises two different issues. First, I believe that there is value in getting a physician to treat you who is willing to try prescribing Pentox for you, and is willing to help monitor you for ill-effects. Second is cost. If you are looking to save money, look for bargains on medications, not for bargains in brain power. You would do well to meet a doctor willing to see you periodically (ie every 4-6 months) and willing to take the occasional phone call for advice. Even if you pay out of pocket, this is worth doing.

Paying for surgery is not so simple. You need health insurance for that. Depending on your country, you may not be able to get health insurance coverage for a pre-existing condition. That way, the insurance companies can deny coverage for a Peyronies surgery as a pre-existing condition - if they know about it. This is one reason to "fly under the radar" but for no other reason should you avoid going to a doctor.

To get medication cheaply, you can probably go to an international supplier, who will ignore the need for a prescription and sell you Pentox (Trental) without one. If you go to a doctor, then you have no problem at all.

Tim

[beginer]

thanks a lot for the info!

[Iceman]

TIM 468 -

Here is the link:

http://www.bodyscience.com.au/page/supplements/flypage/product_id/181

it seems to have a high concentration of L arginine - please have a look at this and let me know if its worth it to buy?

Cheers

[Tim468]

I tend to not buy blends, but to go for a more pure item from a reputable vendor. I don't know this one to say anything one way or the other regarding reliability. They might well be fine. I tended to see what folks on the body building sites said about quality before I chose a source of L-arginine (I chose San-Vasoflow).

Tim

[Iceman]

tim468 - are there various forms of l arginine - i thought they were all the same just different packaging??