injection v surgery: what's the difference in erection quality?

[DJWinters]

I need some advice.  I'm scheduled for an implant next month in London with Dr. Ralph.  I know some people have said that he's kind of an ass, but actually I have found him quite reasonable. I had a teleconference with him about a year ago to discuss an implant and he was the only doctor, among the 5 have visited, who asked me "have you tried injections?"  Quick word on surgeons and many doctors: they're not trained for good communications skills.

Well, I finally tried an injection last week with Caverject.  It was done in a doctor's office (not Ralph, because I don't live in London) and the result was OK. Injection not painful and erection was OK.  I will try it again, at home with my partner, to see how it works in sex play.

My question is for anyone who has gone from injections to an implant.  What is your experience in terms of the quality of your erection?  What I liked about the injection was the feeling of my penis being engorged with blood.  I felt like my sexual chakra was at last coming alive again.  What's the experience with an implant?  Do you get that "turgid" feeling?

I still wake up in the morning (sometimes) with an erection.  it is certainly much smaller and not as thick as it was pre-peyronie's, but still, that feeling of blood flow to the base of my penis is a great feeling.  What happens to that with an implant?

I've had Peyronie's for almost 10 years now.  All oral medication has stopped working.  I did Viapex about 5 years ago which helped with the severe hourglassing which I don't have anymore.  Now I just can't get hard anymore and I believe an implant is the best way forward, but before I take that leap, I would like to hear from others who have done both: injection and then implant.

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

[IwillbeatPD]

Hey DJ-

While I haven't had an implant, I will in November and am in a similar situation as you. I'd ask yourself this:

Do you have a sufficient erection for sex with injections? I personally did not due to my hourglass/hinge, making my choice to do the implant easier.

This question becomes more difficult if the answer is not a straight forward yes or no, but somewhere in the middle. Like SOMETIMES you are hard enough for sex, but sometimes not. Or like in my case, you are hard enough for sex but your dick is not stable enough for sex.

Hope this helps.
 

[Hawk]

I used injections 2 - 3 times weekly for many months.  If you fill in your signature line so we have some adequate background, then we can discuss this further.

[DJWinters]

Hi Hawk.  I filled in the signature line.  I'd be grateful to learn more of your experience.  Thanks.  

[Stepone]

DJ
PLEASE add your age to your signature, it's helpful for us to understand.
I hated injections.
It hurt, sometimes I would bleed, sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.
I have venous leak, so sometimes I couldn't maintain the erection to ejaculate.
I am very happy with my implant as it brought me back into sex without worrying any more.
I still have engorgement as I did prior to surgery so to me I have all the same feelings and excitements. There is no more psychological worrying about can I perform.
Hope this helps
StepOne

 

[DJWinters]

Thanks a lot, Stepone.  That's helpful to hear your experience, especially regarding the feeling of engorgement.  

[jj21]

You still get some engorgement with an implant, you won't get that thick throbbing feeling, but you will get a hard solid erection.

Maybe, try and think of a solid rubber dildo v a glass dildo. Picture the solid rubber one hard but still rubber (an erection with injection), and the glass one hard but still glass (an erection with implant). This is the kind of comparison.

My implant erection is still big, thick, and hard. But, it is not a throbbing, full of blood feeling.

Hope that makes sense.

J

[Gerald12345]

Are injections even recommended when you are already a peyronies patient? I thought that was sort of a nogo. At least here in Europe the package insert for caverjet says that the use is not allowed for peyronies patients.

[DJWinters]

Thanks JJ21 for that comparison.  I get it.  much appreciated.  

[DJWinters]

Gerald1234.  I've used the Caverject 3 times now prescribed to me by Dr. Caviezel in Geneva.  I would imagine that the injectable is not advised if your Peyronie's is painful and expressed as a curvature of the penis.  My Peyronie's plaque, as far as I have been told, is around the base of my penis and it has never been painful,  just ruinous of my erection.  I've never had severe curvature, just hour glassing.  With Xiapex 4 years ago, the hourglassing lessened but erectile dysfunction set in.  Caverject gives me an OK erection but it's also a bit painful.  Anyway, all that to say it was prescribed to me, so i guess it depends on the individual case.  Cheers.  DJ

[Gerald12345]

OK, sure. But injections definetly have the power to make your peyronies worse, I guess. As you are already affected by peyronies your tunica seems to have the genetic didposition for scarring.

[Anthony1]

I am convinced that Trimix lead to my Peyronies Disease.  That alone is enough to lean toward implantation...
That said, The erections were good quality but gave me a tender, sore penis.  They were not reliable and I never knew when they would subside.  My implant erections are of solid quality but smaller.  My wife and I were happy to see a reduction in girth but I did lose 1.5"-2" of length from the erections I got with Trimix.  My wife doesnt seem to care and while it hits my ego a bit shes quite orgasmic since I got implanted so I dont really care.  Im only 6 weeks post op, maybe Ill make up some length.  
Ill take implanted over Trimix  

[Stepone]

Anthony1, glad things are going well for you. I regained about 1/2 inch of my length I lost from Peyronies. I also gained girth which the spouse and my ego enjoy.
I am curious that you said you and your spouse were glad you lost girth. How much did you lose and what was your girth prior to losing?
I only know of one other guy that had a penis that was 8" girth and his wife had problems with it. But after a while and a visit to her gynecologist she was able to accommodate him without any pain. I think she got some cream to help her stretch without pain. I don't know the details, but I remember him telling me they were having problems.
StepOne  

[Anthony1]

Stepone
I was 6.75" which isnt huge but a good bit above average.  Not only my wife but other past partners weren't enthusiastic about oral and I have never had anal sex as every woman I was with was like "ah, thats a negative Ghost Rider" In 20 years my wife and I have had sex (penetrative)longer than 10 minutes maybe 3 times.  The will was there but she would get sore, again, this is something I experienced quite a bit over the years.  This was an issue for partners that were so wet I barely felt anything.  Dont get me wrong, every woman I had been with commented they loved my girth but it was nice for dalliances not long term partnership.  
I am now 6" base to midshaft and from the glans to 1" behind I am 5.5". My wife admitted to me she always wanted to try anal but was not willing, she sez its now on the menu.  Im still a bit sore at the moment for that.
I know 3/4" doesnt seem significant but look at a tape measure, its pretty stark in circumference, in length its hardly noticeable  

[Hawk]

In answer to the original poster's question.  The injectable drugs generally used for ED are generally Papaverine, phentolamine, and Alprostadil.

Injection runs the risk of fibrosis for the obvious reason of micro damage to the tissue from the needle.  This is made far worse if you do not apply pressure for at least two minutes at the injection site to stop any bleeding.  Also made worse if you take any prescription, over-the-counter, or natural foods that contribute to increased bleeding.  Blood spilled in whole tissue (outside of the blood vessels) is known to cause scarring.  It is a big factor in adhesion formation in many surgeries.

Next, priapism is a danger, and priapism from any cause can cause serious damage AFTER 4 hours of continuous erection.

In addition to the needle, blood, and priapism, some injected drugs are also known to cause scarring, especially Papaverine.  Papaverine is usually used in BiMix or TriMix.  Alprostadil (Caverject) is the least likely to cause priapism and scaring, but it often causes pain and aching during erection.

I and several others here attribute their Peyronies Disease to penile injections.  In my case, it was BiMix.

We have an entire board on "Injections for ED".  If you want to continue the discussion on injections, you can do so there.

[yodarb]

DJWinters
To your original question (I don't yet have an implant) - but my sense is that injections are somewhat half way from natural to an implant. Once you get the dosage right - you get a rock hard erection that lasts for 1+ hours. And you just don't have to worry about anything, even ejaculation. It feels natural but not completely natural.

You suggest that you have pain with Caverject - I did as well and I changed to Trimix, same results but more of a minor ache than pain.

It looks like you are already scheduled for an implant - I would suggest you look at options for getting your manhood ready for the implant - there is good evidence that pumping with a VED will help the surgeon with the implant. There are posts on doing this on this forum. And it should help mitigate the Peyronie's.
Peyronie's is a contraindication to injections. If you are susceptible to Peyronie's, injects are likely to catch up with you eventually. That said, my urologist said the risk is not that great for a while - especially if you are doing some sort of traction (like the VED).
I'd suggest contacting your urologist and asking about some form of pre-surgery traction treatment.

[Hawk]

Quick Warning Note:  Do NOT use VED with injections. Certainly not within hours of injections because it will suck blood from the injection site into tissue.  Whole blood in tissue contributes to scarring.

[Sonic]

I do not know why anyone with peyronies would ever use injections to begin with as the ultimate end result down the road will be more scarring. It is even contraidicated to take injection therapy if you have peyronies due to the risk of scar tissue from the injections. Even on various forums like reddit, FT etc I have read about people who did NOT have Peyronies and ended up with deformed penises after long term use of injections.

No man should ever have to inject his penis to get erect unless you have some serious spinal disease like MS etc.

I always tell guys if you have reached a stage where the ED is so advanced you have to resort to injections then really, you should be strongly considering the implant route. Just my two cents and I do not state this as a fact.