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Welcome to Dr. Landon Trost - Directly answering member questions in the "Medical Professionals" section below the Treatment boards. https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,16512.0.html

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Author Topic: Coenzyme Q10/Ubiquinone - Ubiquinol  (Read 146593 times)

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Iceman

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2010, 02:24:46 AM »

well thats amazing why isnt this MORE talked about here if its such a good thing - why can I buy it from - I generally buy from iherb as i am not in the states - is this the best place to get it??

my concern as well is why havnt more people discussed this or made reference to it here on this forum.mmmmm????
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Woodman

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2010, 02:58:27 AM »

Well, I dont think its been discussed here on the forum for that long. I ve only seen it for the past few weeks. I am sure you can purchase it from iherb. I am not sure who has the best pricing I bought mine from a store locally.
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Iceman

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #52 on: October 30, 2010, 08:47:10 PM »

so is it called ubiquinol COQ 10??
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #53 on: October 30, 2010, 10:34:00 PM »

I have just had a chance to review the full copy of the recently completed Iranian CoQ10 study.  I have found it to be pretty impressive.  I have forwarded a copy directly to Tim and am eagerly awaiting his comments.  One of the major questions I had about this study was whether they used Ubiquinone or the more effective and newer Ubiquinol.  The answer certainly *seems* that they in fact used Ubiquinone.  This was a three year study with nearly 200 participants with the actual period of treatment lasting six months.  The positive results reported are profound considering how difficult Peyronie's is to treat.  And I am convinced that the more potent Ubiquinol should produce even more impressive results since Ubiquinone is known not to work well for older people.  Additionally continued treatment beyond the six month period should have added benefits as Ubiquinol is a safe and generally well tolerated substance.  I was hoping to be able to attach a copy of the study to this post, but the size of the file is too large.  Hopefully Tim will get it posted in the resource library quickly.  In the mean time I have included the link.  There is MUCH hope for all of us.  The combination of Ubiquinol and Pentox is working extremely well for me and after reading this study, it becomes clear to me as to why that is the case.

Iranian CoQ10 Study
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hornman

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2010, 12:28:31 PM »

Makes me wonder if I should switch to the plain Q10 since I'm not seeing any results with the Ubiquinol. It's cheaper too!

Hornman
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UK

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2010, 01:02:57 PM »

George

This is great news for anyone in early Peyronie's and I would encourage anyone in that position to take matters into their own hands and start on this stuff.

However a lot of us here are in the stable phase having had this for several years and I believe you are one of those.

From the study

"The role of oral medication to modify the course
of Peyronies Disease may be limited to the 12–18 months of
plaque maturation during which time penile pain
and induration is gradually resolving. Once nonpainful
penile curvature has been ensued, the
probability of significant success with oral therapy
appears limited"

How do you see this of benefit outside of prevention to repair/reverse/restore previous function? I don't see how it could be helpful especially if one believes Peyronies is a result of trauma verus spontaneous inflammation of which mine is hte former.
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2010, 03:30:07 PM »

Remember, this was a six month study.  The results were achieved over six months on Ubiquinone.  If Ubiquinol doesn't work, Ubiquinone certainly won't work as it has to go through conversion in the body to Ubiquinol.  - George

Makes me wonder if I should switch to the plain Q10 since I'm not seeing any results with the Ubiquinol. It's cheaper too!

Hornman
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crashbandit

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2010, 03:31:58 PM »

Makes me wonder if I should switch to the plain Q10 since I'm not seeing any results with the Ubiquinol. It's cheaper too!

Hornman

If your over 40, I'd say stick with the ubiquinol. ubiquinone is the exact same as ubiquinol but just harder for older people to process in their bodies. I'm thinking, since I'm 30, I'll switch to Q10 300mg and get way more out of it then my ubiquinol 100mg?

By the looks of this study, as an acute Peyronies Disease sufferer, ubiquinol combo'd with pentox is going to give me one hell of a chance (<10%) to recover from my penis pain.
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #58 on: October 31, 2010, 03:52:57 PM »

UK,

First of all the whole "phase" thing is something of an oversimplification.  Without Pentox and Ubiquinol, I STILL have pain issues after over six years.  This hardly indicates "stable".  The same cautionary note has been used in evaluating Pentoxifylline.  All I know is that both have proven helpful for me in spite of my advanced state.  Additionally I would make the following points:

1)  One should EXPECT that anyone in an advanced state would take longer to achieve a discernible benefit.  Six months is a rather short time frame.

2)  This study apparently employed Ubiquinone.  The results may very well be skewed to some degree by the lack of ability of some in the study to successfully convert Ubiquinone.

3)  This study employed CoQ10 in isolation.  It does not take into account what might very well be achievable with a combination of Pentoxifylline AND Ubiquinol.

4)  In the case of heart disease, Ubiquinol has been shown to work in cases of LATE STAGE heart failure.  Why should it be any different in the case of Peyronie's?  Ubiquinol protects and even restores ALL tissues, not just the TA.  If we can totally wipe out inflammation and oxidative stress, all tissues in question *should* heal, albeit slowly.

So what I see in that study gives me a whole lot of hope as to the potential value of Ubiquinol.  But, as always, I tend to see the glass half full when everyone around me is seeing it half empty.

- George
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George999

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #59 on: November 01, 2010, 12:16:34 AM »

Iceman,  I really suggest you carefully read through the CoQ10 thread, especially my posts.  There you will learn all about Ubiquinol and where you can get it.  Its ALL under the CoQ10 thread under the Oral Treatments topic.  - George
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mike67

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2010, 10:37:49 AM »

George999
Hi - as I mentioned earlier to you , I switched over to Ubiquinol last week . Taking 1 /2 caps of 100 mg daily. I have been reading your sources for product , and understanding that all have the same base source for product , see a huge difference in cost , just between 2 of the mentioned vendors.
Using 60 caps 100 mg shipped to Canada = .95 per cap from Puritan's Pride and .59 from Swanson.
The Puritan product I priced is Reserveage Active Ubiquinol. This is the same one I bought locally. Works out to $1.26 per cap.
Obviously I will repeat from a USA source - but how come the huge difference just using these 2 vendors when the contents are essentially the same? Are they?
Thanks

Mike
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Mikey

Tertius

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2010, 10:44:22 AM »

Hi

Could someone suggest how much Ubiquinol is best on a daily basis, and when it should be taken, with or without meals etc. ?

Tertius
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #62 on: November 01, 2010, 11:37:10 AM »

Mike,  All the products DO contain the same basic ingredient since there is ONLY ONE manufacturer, the Japanese pharmaceutical company, Kaneka.  The Kaneka website http://www.kanekaqh.com/kanekaqh-products.html lists all of the authorized distributors of their product.  Each of these independent distributors formulates their own version of the end product and determines what sort of profit they want to make on the end product.  This is why the prices are all over the map.  I suppose their is the possibility that some of these vendors might be misrepresenting the amount of active ingredient in their product and thus undercutting their competitor's pricing.  I really don't know how someone could spot something like that or even guarantee that a high priced vendor is not committing the same fraud.  We live in an age where it happens even with supposedly well regulated prescription drugs.  For sure Puritan's Pride has a very good reputation and I would be very confident that you would be getting the real deal from them.

Tertius,  The amount of Ubiquinone used in the successful Peyronie's study was 300mg per day.  Based on that, I am using 300mg of the Ubiquinol per day and finding it highly effective.  Woodman has also posted on other threads that he is getting results from this amount.  The best way to take it is 100mg with meals three times per day.  Ubiquinol is simply reduced Ubiquinone.  If you consume Ubiquinone, your body tries to convert it to Ubiquinol.  It may or may not succeed depending on age and health etc.  If you take Ubiquinol, the conversion is already done and it can go right to work in your body without any intervening processing by your body.

- George
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #63 on: November 01, 2010, 12:24:20 PM »

Mike,  Also, I am getting significant beneficial results using the Life Extension formula which is one of the most expensive, but I know from experience it works.  Woodman is also getting results and perhaps you can ask him directly via PM or perhaps he can share with us all as to what brand he is using.  By sharing this kind of info on this forum we can probably sort out very quickly which ones work and which ones don't.  - George
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Iceman

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2010, 09:26:24 PM »

bought a whole lot from iherb - wish me luck
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newguy

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2010, 12:07:42 AM »

George - Thanks for posting. I agree that the "phases" classification is a bit fuzzy. In these cases, it's those with the condition for a year+ (but under 18 months, I think) and with pain. While I agree that, as far as surgery goes and many mens conditions there is a cut off point where stability, or therebaouts, is reaches, some do not fit into these groupings. I would be interested to see how apparently painless and stable conditions react to these treatments (coq10 and pentox), and those with conditions seemingly active for years. There seems to be a thought in these studies, that treatment outside of the parameters chosen would be totally useless. I'd rather they test that, rather than assume it.
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Fred22

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #66 on: November 04, 2010, 11:49:09 AM »

As I mentioned in a previous post, I have mitral valve prolapse for which ubiquinol is supposed to be beneficial.  I started at 300 mg. per day on September 29 and, as I said before. after around 10 days began to experience mvp symptoms. I stopped for a few days and started again at 100 mg. which I seemed to tolerate better, but still had some minor mvp symptoms (which I have from time to time anyway).  Yesterday (Wednesday, Nov. 3) I increased to 200 mg. and the mvp symptoms came back.  This morning I had 100 mg. with breakfast (around 8 AM) and the mvp started acting up.  I stil plan on taking my other 100 at lunch and see how it goes.  I've heard from at least one other person who has mvp and said they had been taking CO Q10 for years with no problem.  I'm still not convinced that it's the ubiquinol that is causing my symptoms...just reporting what I've experienced.  It's now 10:45 and the symptoms are still with me. 

However, last night I noticed a reduction in my penile pain.  And this AM I had erections but not the usual pain associated with hese erections.  I've been experiencing painful early AM erections for several months now (since around the time I started to take ALC).  So it seems that maybe the ubiquinol is beginning to help with the pain.  Hope so!...Fred 
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #67 on: November 04, 2010, 12:24:05 PM »

Fred,  Have you ever tried Aloe Vera softgels before for the MVP?  - George
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Fred22

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #68 on: November 04, 2010, 02:40:25 PM »

Well, I dont think its been discussed here on the forum for that long. I ve only seen it for the past few weeks. I am sure you can purchase it from iherb. I am not sure who has the best pricing I bought mine from a store locally.

Swanson and Puritan's Pride have it at a reasonable price...at least reasonable for something so outrageously expensive.  However, if it helps it's worth the money.  I've been taking it off and on since the end of September and last night I noticed a reduction in pain.  Also I've been having painful AM erections for several months....this AM I had erections but not the pain...could be the ubiquinol....Fred
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Fred22

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #69 on: November 04, 2010, 02:44:34 PM »

Fred,  Have you ever tried Aloe Vera softgels before for the MVP?  - George

George,
No I haven't.  I've never heard of Aloe Vera being used as a treatment fro mvp. Where can I find some info on the subject?  Thanks for the suggestion.....Fred
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #70 on: November 05, 2010, 10:13:54 PM »

Fred,  Have you ever tried Aloe Vera softgels before for the MVP?  - George

George,
No I haven't.  I've never heard of Aloe Vera being used as a treatment fro mvp. Where can I find some info on the subject?  Thanks for the suggestion.....Fred

I obtained relief from palpitations with Aloe softgels, there is also a large study indicating it to be effective for angina.  Of course neither of these are related to what you have other than they all have to do with the heart.  My thinking is that, who knows, it might be worth a try.  It is something I would try if I were in your shoes.  Like just a little bit at first and see what effect it has.  - George
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skunkworks

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #71 on: November 06, 2010, 12:02:10 PM »

The people at Life Extension are pretty much the pros on things like cholesterol levels.  Their recommendations as to ideal levels are:

Total Cholesterol:  160-180mg/dL
LDL:  50-99mg/dL
HDL:  50-60mg/dL

Contrary to the belief of many in the medical profession, cholesterol is NOT toxic waste.  Cholesterol is an important substance that the body uses for all sorts of essential bodily functions.  The slash and burn approach to heart health has all sorts of very negative unintended consequences that can reek havoc with a persons general health.

Isn't the ideal hdl/ldl ratio above .4?
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #72 on: November 06, 2010, 01:32:28 PM »

Isn't the ideal hdl/ldl ratio above .4?

I think that is pretty subjective.  Life Extension is very conservative on this issue, but some docs are even more aggressive at shutting down LDL.  In my opinion, too aggressive.  They are also NOT checking for other important factors like lp(a) way out of range.  Then they try to make up for that by being overaggressive against generic LDL.  - George
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BrooksBro

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #73 on: November 07, 2010, 07:22:51 AM »

I have never seen any recommended LDL to HDL ratio, only recommended upper limits.  Are you thinking of the Total Cholesterol ratio (Total / HDL)?  If so, the goal for this ratio is less than 4. 
160 / 50 = 3.2

Low HDL is a constant battle of mine.  Time release niacin (250 mg 4x daily, and ALWAYS WITH MEALS!) is the only thing I have found to be effective in raising it out of the high 20s.  My most recent labs:
Total 127
Tri 51
LDL 65
HDL 45
Total/HDL ratio = 2.82


The people at Life Extension are pretty much the pros on things like cholesterol levels.  Their recommendations as to ideal levels are:

Total Cholesterol:  160-180mg/dL
LDL:  50-99mg/dL
HDL:  50-60mg/dL

Contrary to the belief of many in the medical profession, cholesterol is NOT toxic waste.  Cholesterol is an important substance that the body uses for all sorts of essential bodily functions.  The slash and burn approach to heart health has all sorts of very negative unintended consequences that can reek havoc with a persons general health.

Isn't the ideal hdl/ldl ratio above .4?
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Fred22

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #74 on: November 07, 2010, 12:15:01 PM »

Well...painful erections are back, so I guess the ubiquinol isn't helping yet.  This morning I had multiple very painful erections...had to apply ice packs.  I know the erections are supposed to be good for your penis, but for my money I'd rather they went away. All "experts" say this is highly unusual after having Peyronie's for 4 1/2 years...just lucky I guess....Fred
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Fred22

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #75 on: November 07, 2010, 12:18:04 PM »

Fred,  Have you ever tried Aloe Vera softgels before for the MVP?  - George

George,
No I haven't.  I've never heard of Aloe Vera being used as a treatment fro mvp. Where can I find some info on the subject?  Thanks for the suggestion.....Fred

I obtained relief from palpitations with Aloe softgels, there is also a large study indicating it to be effective for angina.  Of course neither of these are related to what you have other than they all have to do with the heart.  My thinking is that, who knows, it might be worth a try.  It is something I would try if I were in your shoes.  Like just a little bit at first and see what effect it has.  - George

I'll give them a try..thanks...Fred
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #76 on: November 07, 2010, 03:43:59 PM »

Fred,  Have you ever tried Aloe Vera softgels before for the MVP?  - George

George,
No I haven't.  I've never heard of Aloe Vera being used as a treatment fro mvp. Where can I find some info on the subject?  Thanks for the suggestion.....Fred

I obtained relief from palpitations with Aloe softgels, there is also a large study indicating it to be effective for angina.  Of course neither of these are related to what you have other than they all have to do with the heart.  My thinking is that, who knows, it might be worth a try.  It is something I would try if I were in your shoes.  Like just a little bit at first and see what effect it has.  - George

I'll give them a try..thanks...Fred

Just make sure you get the ones that have a yellowish liquid gel inside a softgel capsule, NOT the ones with dry material inside.  They are a hard laxative and would really mess you up!  - George
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crashbandit

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #77 on: November 07, 2010, 11:10:52 PM »

Fred22,

Have you tried applying heat rather then ice? Just the thought of adding ice to my package scares me, as I always add heat to myself.
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Fred22

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #78 on: November 09, 2010, 02:26:02 PM »

Well...I suffer from chronic constipation, so would you recommend the ones with the laxatie effect?
Fred
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George999

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #79 on: November 09, 2010, 05:46:10 PM »

The ones with the laxative effect will NOT help your heart in any way and could even damage it further.  There are much better solutions to constipation than aloe laxative.  I don't recommend it under any circumstances.  - George
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Fred22

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #80 on: November 11, 2010, 12:51:10 PM »

OK...thanks..Fred
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MikeSmith0

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #81 on: November 12, 2010, 03:24:25 AM »

Fred,

there is a published study showing that injections of corticosteroids (kenalog) into the penis (not the plaque) helps with pain. 

i talked w/ another doc about this and he said kenalog is idiotic to inject into the penis bc it causes calcificaiton in all tissues - and celestone should be used... but this doc was not a urologist.

so, that's something that might help.


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newguy

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #82 on: November 12, 2010, 06:40:52 AM »

Fred,

there is a published study showing that injections of corticosteroids (kenalog) into the penis (not the plaque) helps with pain. 

i talked w/ another doc about this and he said kenalog is idiotic to inject into the penis bc it causes calcificaiton in all tissues - and celestone should be used... but this doc was not a urologist.

so, that's something that might help.





It's just my take on it, but I do think that injections or anything less that something that has an amazing track record, is risky territory.
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CoQ10 and Vegetarianism
« Reply #83 on: November 12, 2010, 03:15:49 PM »

So

I was reading up on this CoQ10 and I would like to add something here, dunno if it means anything. Anyways a year ago I started being a vegetarian because my gf is a vegetarian. Anyways a year later I get this peyronie's after what seemed two massive infections. I read that coQ10 is found in meat. I wonder if there is a link here. Could my body be lacking this thing? I see the local Trader JOe's has some, where would u guys get urs? Thanks-Clark
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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #84 on: November 12, 2010, 04:40:37 PM »

this is my third day on ubiquinol and it really does take my pain away - lets see how it progresses - will keep you posted
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George999

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Re: CoQ10 and Vegetarianism
« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2010, 08:32:00 PM »

If you had massive infections, I would get my Vitamin D levels checked if I were you.  - George
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crashbandit

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #86 on: November 13, 2010, 12:23:57 AM »

Iceman, what doses of ubiquinol are you taking and how many times a day?
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Iceman

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #87 on: November 13, 2010, 01:13:16 AM »

100 mg x 1 per day - day 4 now and no pain
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newguy

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Re: CoQ10 and Vegetarianism
« Reply #88 on: November 14, 2010, 08:25:30 AM »

It wouldn't surprise me if vegetarians have a lower level of coq10 than meat eaters. However, I certainly wouldn't go as far as saying that is relating to your development of COQ10. I'm not sure at this time if a COQ10 deficiency has or will ever be related to peyronie's disease. There does seem to be some evidence that COQ10 supplementation at fairly high levels may help men with peyronie's though. Hopefully in a year or so we'll start to see more studies, and more experiences from those on the forum.
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newguy

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #89 on: November 14, 2010, 11:08:05 AM »

Starting to see a few combinations being used as treatments involving COQ10. Not peyronie's specific but encouraging.

COQ10 + Pycnogenol : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20657530 (in heart failure patients)

COQ10 + Resveratrol : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21036052 (in muscular dystrophy)

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crashbandit

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #90 on: November 15, 2010, 12:53:52 AM »

Wow, just once per day and that good of results. That's awesome! I was taking the 100mg twice a day with the pentox and fish oil. Then I switched to Ubiquinone (CoQ10) 300mg to hopefully get more out of it. But since I started the CoQ10 I have noticed horrible gas and diarrhea. Anyone else notice this with Ubiquinone? I might have to go back to ubiquinol.
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crashbandit

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Re: Coenzyme Q10
« Reply #91 on: November 15, 2010, 01:17:45 AM »

I recently stopped ubiquinol 100mg twice daily and switched to CoQ10 300mg twice a day, hopign I would get more benifit out of the Ubiquinone. But I have noticed very bad gas and diarrhea. Anyone else notice this with CoQ10?
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Iceman

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #92 on: November 15, 2010, 03:51:33 AM »

day 6 - no pain
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Fred22

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #93 on: November 15, 2010, 03:07:11 PM »

Fred22,

Have you tried applying heat rather then ice? Just the thought of adding ice to my package scares me, as I always add heat to myself.

I've tried both...the ice seems to work better for this pain.  What scares you about ice?....Fred
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Fred22

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #94 on: November 15, 2010, 03:08:18 PM »

day 6 - no pain

How much are you taking?
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Fred22

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #95 on: November 15, 2010, 03:16:06 PM »

Fred,

there is a published study showing that injections of corticosteroids (kenalog) into the penis (not the plaque) helps with pain.  

i talked w/ another doc about this and he said kenalog is idiotic to inject into the penis bc it causes calcificaiton in all tissues - and celestone should be used... but this doc was not a urologist.

so, that's something that might help.




I had ear surgery about 4 years ago.  They did a perfusion of dexamethsone and xylocaine in the ear and put me on an IV of dexamethasone for about 6 hours 2 days in a row.  I was having penile pain at the time but had not developed curvature and didn't know it was Peyronie's.  A day or so after the surgery I noticed that the pain was gone.  It came back of course, but I had, as I recall now, maybe a week of no pain.  I attribute it to the dexamethasone IV...don't know if that was it.  I do know that I was pain free for one of the few times in the last 4 1/2 years.
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Fred22

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #96 on: November 15, 2010, 03:22:58 PM »

Sorry that message posted twice....
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George999

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #97 on: November 15, 2010, 09:21:31 PM »

Fred,  From your last post, I can't help but wonder if Low Dose Naltrexone might help you.  Bottom line is that sometimes people, especially older people, have a shortage of endogenous opioids in their bloodstream which makes them vulnerable to idiopathic pain of various sorts.  Low Dose Naltrexone treats this problem by stimulating the increased release of opioids, thus alleviating much or all of that pain.  - George
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Fred22

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #98 on: November 16, 2010, 02:22:07 PM »

Fred,  From your last post, I can't help but wonder if Low Dose Naltrexone might help you.  Bottom line is that sometimes people, especially older people, have a shortage of endogenous opioids in their bloodstream which makes them vulnerable to idiopathic pain of various sorts.  Low Dose Naltrexone treats this problem by stimulating the increased release of opioids, thus alleviating much or all of that pain.  - George

I'd give it a try, but how would I get a prescription?...Fred
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George999

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Re: Ubiquinol
« Reply #99 on: November 16, 2010, 06:50:25 PM »

Yup,  Its like trying to get a prescription for Pentox, you have to look around for a doc willing to prescribe.  - George
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