Coenzyme Q10/Ubiquinone - Ubiquinol

[slowandsteady]

S&S - what brands were you on for ubiquinol and coq10?   Sometimes I wonder about how much we can trust supplement companies to have what they claim to have in their pills... consumerlab.com is sometimes useful but they don't cover a lot of the major brands.

It looks like I'll have to drop CoQ10 -- I'm breaking out in a rash from it (at least it wasn't bed bugs -- sheesh). I've never noticed the same effect from ubiquinol, but I'll keep a close watch on it once the CoQ10 is out of my system and I can switch.

I had most recently been taking the LEF ubiquinol before I gave CoQ10 a trial.

[George999]

If you're getting a rash from CoQ10, it has to be from some adulteration or additive.  CoQ10 is endogenous.  The body produces it, so if you are actually allergic to CoQ10, you are in major trouble.  - George

[michael1001]

hello all,

I read on a site that the absorbiton of CoQ10 is increased up to 60% if it is combined with Bioperine .
Is this true? Should we take this substance then to increase the absorbtion of CoQ10?

Thanks
Michael.

[GS]

Gentlemen,

I'm 60 years old, so I made the switch from CO Q 10 to Ubiquinol a few weeks ago.  Basically, I'm using the PAV cocktail along with Vitamins D,E and a bunch of others along with the VED.

I don't know if it's a coincidence or not, but once I started using Ubiquinol, my erections and orgasms have been much improved.  The Ubiquinol is the only thing I've changed, so my opinion is that it does work and is better than CO Q 10 for older men.

GS

[George999]

You will find that various CoQ10 vendors use various additional additives to increase CoQ10 absorption and bioavailability.  The problem with doing your own combinations is in finding the ratios.  In other words how much bioperine are you going to take with a given amount of CoQ10.  On the other hand, if you look around, you will probably find a CoQ10 product out there with bioperine already in it.  - George

[slowandsteady]

If you're getting a rash from CoQ10, it has to be from some adulteration or additive.  CoQ10 is endogenous.  The body produces it, so if you are actually allergic to CoQ10, you are in major trouble.  - George

Rashes are listed as a common side effect (ref). We generally get it via endogenous production; it looks like taking large oral doses can cause issues for some, like me unfortunately.

[George999]

Well ... I stand corrected.  Thanks for the reference!  - George

[snowydreams]

George999, how much CoQ10 and pentox do you take daily and how do you take it?  Noticed any side effects?  Has the full abstract of the study been posted on the forum?

[George999]

The typical dosage of Pentoxifylline for Peyronie's is 400mg 3X per day.  The typical dosage of Ubiquinol is 100mg 3X per day.  If one is taking the Ubiquinone form of CoQ10, one can take more.  Side effects are generally rare and mild, but some on the forum are affected by side effects that preclude using one or more of the above.  The full Pentox study is available in the resource section.  The full CoQ10 study is available on the web and, I believe, costs $100 or something like that.  (they sell it )  - George

[elysianfields]

Hi guys.. thought it was time for a post! I've been taking 3x100mg of Ubiquinol for about 6 weeks now. I can not for sure know that's what's taking the pain level down (my pain is when flacid, when sitting, or if there's movement.. not noticeable when erect) but this is the only improvement I've had in the last year.. at times I don't even notice to pain.. which has been fairly constant for about 2 years 2 months. I'm also taking 2x Pentox, ALC and Vit E. I intend to keep going with the Ubiquinol and will report back in a couple of months.

[lespleen]

how long does one have to take coq10 before noticeable signs of improvement? In the published study it looks as though they were on 300mg daily for about half a year

[George999]

The study indicates that treatment period was "24 months".  In my case I noticed improvement in terms of pain right away.  How long it takes before improvement is noted probably varies by individual.  One must note that in the study some individuals never showed improvement.  What is unknown is whether or not they would have had more disease progression if it were not for the CoQ10.  This is what makes these kind of evaluations difficult.  - George

[chefcasey]

I too noticed pain reduction while combining ubiquinol and ALC.  I was on ALC first, with no noticable results, until I added ubiquinol.  I stopped taking ALC and the pain slowly came back, so I was under the impression that it was the both of them combined that worked.  However, one of them has been giving me diarhea, which isn't good I guess if you want them to be absorbed.  I started pentox about a month ago too, so I want to try to see which one is causing the diarhea and adjust my intake.

I think others must find them to work well together, and that's why there's so many  ALC,ALA, Coq10 combination supplements out there, but I've yet to come across ones with the right dosage as suggested for Peyronies Disease

[chefcasey]

I don't know if anyone else has seen this brand of coq10 : https://www.qunol.com/

They now carry it at walmart and it is relatively cheap.  I picked some up for $11 at 100mg x30.  It doesn't say whether or not it is ubiquinol, only that it is a "much more absorbable" version of coq10, so that 100mgs = 300mgs of coq10.  let me know what you guys think.

[George999]

Ubiquinol will be labeled as such.  CoQ10 absorbability is not meaningful for older guys because their bodies are not able to convert it into Ubiquinol even if they absorb it OK.  It is still CoQ10 and not Ubiquinol.  - George

[Iceman]

hi guys - been on the ubiquinol for about 3-4 months and i still think that its the best for pain - its REALLY HELPED me

[newguy]

hi guys - been on the ubiquinol for about 3-4 months and i still think that its the best for pain - its REALLY HELPED me

That's great Iceman. I'm on a few treatments, so it's always hard for me to say what results in any improvements I experience. I do think I've benefited though, so will be reordering.

[elysianfields]

I have to agree.. I've been on it for 2 months 3x a day.. and in the 2 years I've been dealing with this pain its the only thing that has worked for pain... I've stopped taking everything else to be sure.. not 100% gone but a MASSIVE improvement.  

[newguy]

I have to agree.. I've been on it for 2 months 3x a day.. and in the 2 years I've been dealing with this pain its the only thing that has worked for pain... I've stopped taking everything else to be sure.. not 100% gone but a MASSIVE improvement.

It's heartening to here these comments from multiple people. Hopefully those new to the condition will start to treat coq10 as a supplement to put pretty high up the list. That way if we start to see significant and prompt improvements in pain in those people, it might put coq10 in an even more positive light.

[newguy]

I just send off for another lot of coq10 from iherb, as my previous supply is running low. For referenece I take 2 x 300mg pills a day. I am going to up that to 3 x 400mg for 3 months and see how that goes. It might seem like a lot, but it does appear to be very well tolerated: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16344537

[Worried Guy]

I believe COQ10 to be fairly expensive. I'm currently taking 2x100g soft shells a day and would like to increase the does a little.  Do you know a good supplier in the UK of a quality product which does not cost an arm and a leg?  I cant be sure but I seem to have less pain over the last 2 weeks and this could be helping.

[newguy]

I agree that it's certainly not cheap. However for young guys, the avaialble information appears to suggest that Ubiquinone is preferable to Ubiquinol. As ubiquinone is cheaper, that is something you have in your favour. You can get 300 100mg CoQ10 capsules at iherb for around $50 (http://www.iherb.com/Healthy-Origins-CoQ10-Gels-Kaneka-Q10-100-mg-300-Softgels/24092?at=0). Granted postage will be $15-$25 and there may be a small custom payment, so it might be worth buying a years supply. Either way, it's much, much cheaper than going to Holland and Barrett for instance. They charge around £30 for THIRTY 200mg capsules. It's extortionate.

[Fred22]

Taking 300 mg. ubiquinol daily since arond Christmas...started with 200 mg. back around October.  Have noticed a reduction in night time and AM erection pain. Sometimes they are a little painful, but not like before and go away pretty fast....sometimes no pain at all.  I do have some other urological issues that are probably causing penile pain unrelated to Peyronie's.  Went to the urologist last week and he said some of my problems are probably prostate related...maybe some sort of prostatitis.  Found blood in my urine so he's scheduling me for a cystoscopy and a CT scan (to rule out bladder cancer, liver cancer or kidney stones). No BPH, but he put me on Flomax anyway because I've been having pretty bad urinary retention, especially when getting up at night.  He also put me on Septra, an antibiotic that combats a wide range of bacteria.  He also palpatated the Peyronie's plaques and said that I didn't have that much...mostly at base.  Bottom line is I think the uqiquinol is helping with the Peyronie's pain.  I'm also taking ALCAR off and on, but having trouble remembering that small window when my stomach is empty...I eat several small meals a day.  I'm going to start back taking at least 1g midmorning when my stomach is usually empty.....Anyway put me down for one more Peyronie's sufferer who seems to be getting benefit from ubiquinol.....Fred

[newguy]

Thanks for the report Fred. That must be 5-6 positive COQ10 reviews I've read in the past few days!

[michael1001]

can anyone tell me if this coq10 pills are good? I saw that they are really cheap.

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWU561/ItemDetail

and if anyone know how much does it cost the transport of these pills to Europe?
thanks

[Worried Guy]

That is very cheap! I just ordered their brand of L-arginine from amazon and I think it is the same as the stuff I was taking from Holland and Barrett.  These guys ship to the UK and they have buy 1 get 1 free on loads of stuff.  Thanks for the site. It says $4.99 international.

[Worried Guy]

I believe if this stuff is proven to be good then this link should get posted on the new supplements page!  They have really great prices.

[George999]

I use some of their stuff and haven't had a problem so far.  They just seem to be really efficient and really reasonable on their prices.  - George

[newguy]

Looks to be very reasonably prices. Let me know if you get hit by customs charges though. I do everytime I order from iherb, but it still works out much cheaper than if I bought in the UK.

[michael1001]

I just ordered l-arginie, acetyl-l carnitine. vitamin d3, and coq10.
At the end they add some "Additional Shipping: $27.73 " + $4.99. For me this is ok, because if I have to buy the same products from a shop from here I have to pay 3 times the price. I hope they will really send me the pills.
Does anybody know if they inform you about the status of your command ? I don't want to wait and never get the pills...

[newguy]

I had another browse of the swanson site and I'm definitley going to order my COQ10 from there in future. Like for like it's about half price compared to the iherb option I bought, which is itself quite reasonable. It seems that there might not be a need to break the bank after all .

[Worried Guy]

I don't see why they would not send them.  They are a legit company and have been trading since 1969.  I'm using some of their stuff at the moment as it was the cheapest on offer from Amazon.  Gonna order a batch from them now.  

[Fred22]

I use some of their stuff and haven't had a problem so far.  They just seem to be really efficient and really reasonable on their prices.  - George

Same here...good products and great service....Fred

[Fred22]

I just ordered l-arginie, acetyl-l carnitine. vitamin d3, and coq10.
At the end they add some "Additional Shipping: $27.73 " + $4.99. For me this is ok, because if I have to buy the same products from a shop from here I have to pay 3 times the price. I hope they will really send me the pills.
Does anybody know if they inform you about the status of your command ? I don't want to wait and never get the pills...

You'll get them...they're a very reputable company.  I believe you'll get a tracking number when your order ships.  they also ship very quickly...sometimes the same day...Fred

[chefcasey]

Just to let everyone know, there is the qunol brand of coq10 at walmart.  I switched to that after ubiquinol was upsetting my stomach and it is much easier on my digestive system.

[michael1001]

You'll get them...they're a very reputable company.  I believe you'll get a tracking number when your order ships.  they also ship very quickly...sometimes the same day...Fred

What I'm afraid of is that the pills will get lost on their way to me ... I'm just worried how can they found an address that is located at thousands of miles distance.

[newguy]

What I'm afraid of is that the pills will get lost on their way to me ... I'm just worried how can they found an address that is located at thousands of miles distance.

I've ordered supplements online a great many times and have never had any problem with them getting lost in the post.

[George999]

I am noticing that a number of guys here are moving to Qunol CoQ10 instead of the Kaneka products due to cost issues.  Most current CoQ10 products on the market from various vendors make use of CoQ10 and Ubiquinol produced by the Japanese Kaneka pharmaceutical company.  Up to this point in time they have been the only reliable source for high quality CoQ10 products.  At this point I would stay clear of CoQ10 products from places like China and India.  However Qunol appears to be a different animal.  It appears that Qunol is produced in Texas right here in the USA although their website is really not clear on this.  Qunol itself appears to be sited in New Jersey and associated with someone by the name of Ashraf Boutros.  In any case, it is important to note that their are TWO TYPES OF QUNOL.  One type is the conventional CoQ10, albeit in a formulation they claim is more absorbable.  The other type is the Ubiquinol form.  If you are over 40, you probably should be taking the Ubiquinol form because your body will have difficulty converting the CoQ10 to Ubiquinol no matter how absorbable the CoQ10 is.  So if plain old CoQ10 work OK for you, no problem, but if you don't get the results you did from Ubiquinol, you should go back to Ubiquinol unless, of course, you can't tolerate it.  Qunol may indeed have an excellent product.  What turns me off regarding their marketing is that they are not clear on some things.  For example, they state the difference between conventional CoQ10 and Ubiquinol, but they don't make it clear in their FAQ that they produce both.  Additionally they state that CoQ10 products are made in Japan, China, India, USA etc, but they don't state up front where Qunol is made.  It may be on their website somewhere, but as yet I haven't found it.  Another thing that turns me off is that when I go to the National Institutes of Health site and type in "Kaneka", I get immediate research hits.  When I type in "Qunol", I get nothing even though their website makes research claims.  Too bad.  It looks like it might be a good product, but with all the fury surrounding CoQ10 and its benefits, I am really leery of marketing hype.  - George

[chefcasey]

George:

That's very true about qunol.  I switched to it purely for digestive reasons.  I discoverd that taking ubiquinol was upsetting my stomach and giving me bad gas etc.  I switched to generic brand coq10 at first and that seemed to stop it.  When I discoverd qunol, it was priced at only about 2 dollars more than the generic stuff, so I tried it and it's just as easy on my stomach as the other coq10.  The kind I have is the "enhanced" coq10, so I certainly don't expect it to be like the kaneka brand ubiquinol, although it's better than the generic coq10 and suits my stomach fine, so in that regard it's the right choice for me.

[George999]

IF you find it effective for Peyronie's, then for sure, go for it.  However, from the research stuff I have read, I have my doubts as to the effectiveness of any form of conventional CoQ10 for men over 40.  - George

[hornman]

George= How old were the participants in the Iranian study?  They supposedly benefited from conventional Q10.
I also would wonder why Iran of all places would be conducting peyronies studies especially when peyronies is mainly a condition of men of European descent.  I'm leary of a lot of things also.

[George999]

George= How old were the participants in the Iranian study?  They supposedly benefited from conventional Q10.
I also would wonder why Iran of all places would be conducting peyronies studies especially when peyronies is mainly a condition of men of European descent.  I'm leary of a lot of things also.

1)  If you really look at the Iranian study you will find that some men did NOT benefit from CoQ10.  One demographic in particular that did not benefit, at least not as much, were men over 50 years old.  But also, according to the study, men between 40 and 50 actually benefited most, so you are asking a good question here to which I don't have the answer.  If you look at the literature on CoQ10 you will find that conversion to the active Ubiquinol form dwindles with advancing age and that is what concerns me.  So I think from that that Ubiquinol is the safe route.  I think that if anything, it will work better than CoQ10 for older guys.  Note that in my response to Casey I said "if it works, go for it".  So I see no problem with shifting to CoQ10 IF there is an awareness that it might not work as well as Ubiquinol.  Perhaps I wasn't clear on that in my original post so I will modify it to make it clearer.

2)  There are a lot of myths about Peyronie's that are perpetuated by the medical establishment.  "Vitamin E works in treating Peyronie's."  "Most guys with Peyronie's get better without treatment."  "No oral medication helps Peyronie's patients."  "The acute phase lasts 12 months."  I could go on and on.  And I think the idea that Peyronie's is a disease of men of European descent is just another one of those myths.

[newguy]

Thanks for your thoughts George. This treatment does seem to be a burgeoning one among forum members, so the more knowledge out there about the best approach to take, the better. I'm love for another study to emerge in this area.  

[crashbandit]

Just to let everyone know, there is the qunol brand of coq10 at walmart.  I switched to that after ubiquinol was upsetting my stomach and it is much easier on my digestive system.

I had the opposite problem. CoQ10 caused much digestive problems for myself, as Ubiquinol was much easier on my stomach.

[Iceman]

Hi There - does any one know the difference between plain old Ubiquinol and Ubiquinol - CF - they are both on iherb but the latter one is a lot cheaper - is there a reason for this as I was just about to buy a whole lot of them as I reckon its awesome for pain relief.

[George999]

Ubiquinol price is generally based on number of pills in the bottle X amount of ubiquinol in each pill.  Ubiqinol thus must be compared by cost per mg of ubiquinol.  Take each product and multiply number of pill by mg per pill, then divide the total price by that number.  Then compare products.  - George

[Iceman]

hi george - thx for the reply - but the question was is ' ubiquinol CF'  a new different brand to just plain ol ubiquinol - there seems to be 2 different products under the same name

[George999]

I have no idea.  I can find absolutely no information on it from a manufacturer.  Since that is the case, I can only assume that it is mostly marketing, ie branding.   Most products carrying the CF designation also carry the QH designation that is a Kaneka trademark.  So for sure it is derived from Kaneka QH.  I would just compare price based on cost per milligram and go from there.  Understanding of course that vendors could be cutting corners to achieve super competitive pricing.  - George

[cowboyfood]

heads up,

puritan's pride is having another "buy 1 get 1 free, or buy 2 get 3 free" sales.

http://www.puritan.com/

I believe many of us have noticed the high price of ubiquinol, but this sale drops the price of 60 100mg ubiquinol soft-gels to $23.50 if you go the buy 1 get 1 free route; even less if you buy more.

http://www.puritan.com/ubiquinol-639

- CF

[crashbandit]

Dam I wish I would have known this yesterday. I just bought a bunch of stuff from Iherb and this is a much better deal. What's the rapid release mean anyway? Is this product better then Healthy Origins?