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Author Topic: ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor  (Read 28159 times)

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MikeSmith0

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ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor
« on: May 04, 2010, 11:30:23 PM »

I saw a post in the compiled thread about another poster who developed Peyronies Disease while on levaquin.  I have been on levaquin a few times, but I developed the most rapid / severe case of Peyronies Disease in November / December when I was on levaquin again (the 3rd time I believe).  Levaquin is known to damage certain kinds of tissue - particularly the achilles tendon.  This damage is observable under the microscope as well - it makes the tissue stiff and inflexible, leading to rupture in some cases.   Perhaps it caused changes to the tissue in the penis as well.

I was also on a brief trial of 25 mg lamictal (very low dose) at the time, which is known (also) to cause skin and tissue disorders...but a very different kind (necrotic skin / Stevens-Johnson syndrome)   

I am starting to think that my use of quinolone antibiotics over the years due to sinus issues may have led to this - since I had some shrinking going on long before I ever felt scar tissue, saw a curve, or saw hourglassing.  Combining that with lamictal could've been the death knell for my penile anatomy... what do u think?
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SSmithe

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Re: Levaquin / Quinolone Antibiotics - Who Else?
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2010, 02:37:18 PM »

Mike,
I too have taken many rounds of antibiotics for sinus issues!  While I cannot remember the specific names of the antibiotics, my penile problems developed shortly after yearly antibiotic use for multiple staff / sinus infections.   Once I got so sick I needed a few different types of antibiotics to battle it.  What is interesting, is that I never felt I completely recovered from that illness. 

This is a very interesting observation... I wonder how many other there are with similar stories.  Maybe we could even learn what exactly those antibiotics does to tissues, and benefit from it...
Anything might help.
SSmithe
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32 years old.  Peyronies since 22. Stabilized peyronies plaque.  Erectile Dysfunction.  Trying to stay positive.

boomerang

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Re: Levaquin / Quinolone Antibiotics - Who Else?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2010, 08:45:06 AM »

I had constant post nasal drip and sinus problems on and off for years also with many other symptoms brushed off by doctors as normal. I now use a blood thinning enzyme mix and my sinus problems have vanished.  I still have peyronie's but it is getting slightly better and not worse.

I strongly suspect that the blood thinning has allowed my immune system to start functioning normally.  Antibiotics never worked for me because the cause was elsewhere!

Good luck
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MikeSmith0

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Re: Levaquin / Quinolone Antibiotics - Who Else?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2010, 04:13:29 PM »

I think sinus issues may be related via the fact they are sort of over-reactive behaviors of the immune system, specifically with regard to inflammation.  In my case, I had to have sinus surgery that lasted 4 hours and 100s of polyps were removed (sinus polyps are essentially an inflammatory overreaction to a harmless stimuli like dust).  Oddly enough, I barely even have allergies but apparently inside my sinuses, things were haywire as my immune system simply overreacted to anything.  The surgery I had was in my mid 20s!  I may have to have it repeated at some point too, given my predispositions.  Peyronie's disease seems to be somewhat related to a propensity to have an "out of control" inflammatory response and a dysfunctional healing response.  So,  that's the theoretical connection I see... potentially...though the levaquin / quinolone family of antibiotics certainly has documented effects on tissue particularly in the achilles tendon.
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PDGuess

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Re: Levaquin / Quinolone Antibiotics - Who Else?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2011, 05:08:13 PM »

I couldn't help seeing this thread in google so I thought I would join and point out a couple of things. I very seriously doubt fluoroquinolone would have negative effects on Peyronie's at all. In fact, fluoroquinolones have disruptive effects on fibroblast cells and actually impede the formation of scar tissue. These drugs DO have an effect on soft tissues, but that effect is actually a softening effect. I know this is a little dated but you might want to read this patent information:

patentstorm.us/patents/6060474/fulltext.html

A few notable quotes are:

"The present invention is directed to the use of synthetic antibiotics known as fluoroquinolones for preventing scar tissue formation or treating preexisting scar tissue. The invention relates in part to the discovery that fluoroquinolones effectively inhibit the metabolism, proliferation and invasion of fibroblast cells, i.e., fibrosis, associated with detrimental healing processes, and thus inhibit scarring, adhesion formation, and joint stiffness."

And

"The present invention relates to the discovery that a class of synthetic antibiotics known as fluoroquinolones may effectively inhibit scar tissue formation or reduce preexisting scar tissue. More specifically, the invention inhibits fibrosis at the site of a wound or other pathological condition, including inhibition of the metabolism, proliferation, and/or invasion of fibroblast cells, and consequentially, collagen and proteoglycan matrix syntheses. Thus, the invention inhibits the activity of fibroblasts during scar tissue formation. The effect of this action on fibroblast activity is an inhibition of fibrosis at a site where scar tissue should normally form, and thus prevention of scar formation. Therefore, the anti-fibrotic activity of the invention encompasses treatments for preventing or reducing the formation of scar tissue at the site of a wound or lesion in the skin, tissue or organ of an animal. In particular, the invention encompasses, without limitation, treatment of keloidosis, arthrofibrosis, capsular contracture, adhesive capsulitis, scleroderma, skin lesions, surgical adhesions, scar formation, and the like."

So there for I would very seriously doubt taking  levaquin would aggravate the issue. Also sinus issues, I would suspect that the inflammation is regional localized to your sinus's. After all in Peyronie's disease its an inflammation of the Tunica Albuginea it's self. It would be difficult to try and make a correlation between sinus problems and a change in the tunica of the penis.

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MikeSmith0

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Re: Levaquin / Quinolone Antibiotics - Who Else?
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2011, 01:34:47 PM »

I couldn't help seeing this thread in google so I thought I would join and point out a couple of things. I very seriously doubt fluoroquinolone would have negative effects on Peyronie's at all. In fact, fluoroquinolones have disruptive effects on fibroblast cells and actually impede the formation of scar tissue. These drugs DO have an effect on soft tissues, but that effect is actually a softening effect. I know this is a little dated but you might want to read this patent information:

patentstorm.us/patents/6060474/fulltext.html

A few notable quotes are:

"The present invention is directed to the use of synthetic antibiotics known as fluoroquinolones for preventing scar tissue formation or treating preexisting scar tissue. The invention relates in part to the discovery that fluoroquinolones effectively inhibit the metabolism, proliferation and invasion of fibroblast cells, i.e., fibrosis, associated with detrimental healing processes, and thus inhibit scarring, adhesion formation, and joint stiffness."

And

"The present invention relates to the discovery that a class of synthetic antibiotics known as fluoroquinolones may effectively inhibit scar tissue formation or reduce preexisting scar tissue. More specifically, the invention inhibits fibrosis at the site of a wound or other pathological condition, including inhibition of the metabolism, proliferation, and/or invasion of fibroblast cells, and consequentially, collagen and proteoglycan matrix syntheses. Thus, the invention inhibits the activity of fibroblasts during scar tissue formation. The effect of this action on fibroblast activity is an inhibition of fibrosis at a site where scar tissue should normally form, and thus prevention of scar formation. Therefore, the anti-fibrotic activity of the invention encompasses treatments for preventing or reducing the formation of scar tissue at the site of a wound or lesion in the skin, tissue or organ of an animal. In particular, the invention encompasses, without limitation, treatment of keloidosis, arthrofibrosis, capsular contracture, adhesive capsulitis, scleroderma, skin lesions, surgical adhesions, scar formation, and the like."

So there for I would very seriously doubt taking  levaquin would aggravate the issue. Also sinus issues, I would suspect that the inflammation is regional localized to your sinus's. After all in Peyronie's disease its an inflammation of the Tunica Albuginea it's self. It would be difficult to try and make a correlation between sinus problems and a change in the tunica of the penis.



Thank you for your opinion levaquin question.  There is no debate that levaquin puts people at risk of tendon damage, quinolones have been documented to damage DNA since the 1980s (http://aac.asm.org/cgi/reprint/29/6/1073.pdf) and there are over 1000 lawsuits against the manufacturer due to these issues.  So, I do not think it would be completely crazy to think it might be involved in TA micro-trauma (the main theory as to the cause of Peyronies Disease).  The scar tissue doesn't form until later (until after you are off the levaquin).  So, levaquin's anti-fibrotic effects are not relevant to Peyronies Disease unless someone were taking the drug systemically every day (which nobody does).  If levaquin can soften and damage tendons to the point of rupture, can it do the same in the TA?   This is an open question.  Who knows what it does to the TA. And who knows why it causes tendonitis in some people but not others?
 
Levaquin is under major scrutiny for a number of issues right now.  Although it seems you know a lot about levaquin, I am not sure if you are entirely informed about the latest Peyronies Disease research, particularly the pathophysiology of Peyronies Disease.  (Why are you just searching the web for negative posts about levaquin, incidentally?  Has Ortho hired a reputation management firm?)

With regard to sinuses, the point is that Peyronies Disease seems to be a wound healing disorder where inflammation is unchecked & out of control... yes, Peyronies Disease is localized to the TA of the penis... but to think it would be 100% isolated (particularly in cases where it appears when no injury has occurred) is not something that I personally believe.  Research has shown systemic issues in people with Peyronies Disease such as low testosterone (e.g. Morgentaller, 2010).   A generalized hyperactive / auto-immune, over-inflammatory immune response may (and I am just saying "may") be part of all of this.  Dr. Levine (one of the main Peyronies Disease researchers) has said (and an AUA "town hall meeting in 2010) that his lab demonstrated that people with Peyronies Disease are lacking the enzyme to turn off the inflammatory process.  He didn't specify if that enzyme was only present in the penis... but I'd be surprised if it were only there.  This is all speculation, but considering the other skin & wound healing issues I have had (including the sinus issue mentioned here - I have not gone into everything) - I do not think it is isolated.  We already know that people with Peyronies Disease are at higher risk of dupuytren's contracture and ledderhose disease - so there is something systemic / genetic going on in some of the Peyronies Disease population (certainly not all).  That was my main point at the time I wrote this post about sinus issues.  But, since the levaquin question is back on the table - then I would like to know why you believe with 100% certainty that levaquin would not contribute to softening the TA and contributing to the microfractures in the TA that occur with early Peyronies Disease - and then lead to scar tissue 4-6 months later.

So, in conclusion... there are 2 parts here.  1.  The tunica has to be weakened through microtrauma or severe trauma (the later is much less common)  2.  The tunica repair process has to go out of control and overreact to this trauma.  So for 1 - this can be caused by aging, mechanical forces, or possibly chemicals (e.g. levaquin or other substances).  2.  When the body tries to heal this problem, it overreacts due to a missing enzyme to stop the process (per Levine).   This "missing enzyme" and also the overactivity of the immune system is what I doubt would be a local phenomenon reserved only to the penis...particularly given my correlated health problems and those of the members here.
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BSSS

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Re: Levaquin / Quinolone Antibiotics - Who Else?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2011, 07:55:22 PM »

I've taken it in the past before I developed peyronie's.  Also ruptured a tendon in my calf.
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boomerang

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Re: Levaquin / Quinolone Antibiotics - Who Else?
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2011, 09:56:02 PM »

I have not taken Levaquin etc but I did badly tear a calf muscle a few months before the peyronie's started.  However I was having trouble with sore legs and bruises that would not go away as well as thread veins and stiffness of muscles.  I had no injury to trigger the peyronie's.  But taking bisoprolol probably made it a lot worse.
I would like to take an antibiotic if I knew that an infection caused peyronie's and I knew which antibiotic would be the right one.
I found that taking Neprinol for 11 months has stabilised my peyronies and I do not get any more pain but I am now taking Heal n Soothe and  Active Circulation Formula.
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torn

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Re: Levaquin / Quinolone Antibiotics - Who Else?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2011, 07:51:09 PM »

I was on Cipro for about 2 weeks (2 pills a day) starting a little over 3 weeks ago. I always had a slight left-leaning curve, but during the time on Cipro the curve got worse and the characteristic bump under the skin formed (underside to the left).

I've been off the Cipro for about a week and a half now. I wish I would of made the connection sooner as I think the Cipro sped up the process of peyronies because before being on it i never had any bump. During this period I also started to develop a slight hourglass shape that again wasnt present before Cipro.

Its been a week and a half now since Ive been off it and Im praying that it will reverse itself, but I think im probably screwed.

How long have you been off the Levaquin? And have you seen any recovery since quitting?
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George999

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Re: Levaquin / Quinolone Antibiotics - Who Else?
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2011, 08:32:01 PM »

The number one best way to avoid antibiotics is to make sure your vitamin D levels are at optimal levels (50-70ng/ml).  - George
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MikeSmith0

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Re: Levaquin / Quinolone Antibiotics - Who Else?
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2011, 11:47:02 AM »



How long have you been off the Levaquin? And have you seen any recovery since quitting?

I only took it for the 5-7 days indicated when I was sick... I wasn't on it long term. I think I had a tough sinus infection that put me on it for 10 days but that was the max.  Tendon ruptures happen during or after quinolone usage... i don't know why though.  The chemical pathway is not clearly explained anywhere that I am aware of...why would this antibiotic would disrupt tendons?  And why not for everyone?  And if it disrupts tendons, what about the tunica?  I haven't had any improvement since taking it (over a year ago).  I took it a few times...if it cause any damage, it was probably cumulative.

Has anything changed since you last posted?
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George999

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Re: Levaquin / Quinolone Antibiotics - Who Else?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2011, 01:21:54 PM »

Tendon ruptures happen during or after quinolone usage... i don't know why though.  The chemical pathway is not clearly explained anywhere that I am aware of...why would this antibiotic would disrupt tendons?  And why not for everyone?

All of these drugs affect multiple metabolic pathways.  Genetics often determine how much stress various metabolic pathways can withstand.  Add to that environmental effects that tag and untag genes via epigenetic pathways and you end with a pretty random mix.  Some people suffer no ill effects due to "good" genes and no significant environmental damage, others are "accidents waiting to happen" and along comes treatment with Cipro and its like a bowling ball that takes out all the weakened pins in one shot.  This whole thing is all about metabolic pathways by which the body manages tissue repair and inflammatory response.  And THAT is precisely the path to reversal and healing.  - George
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MikeSmith0

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Re: Levaquin / Quinolone Antibiotics - Who Else?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2011, 10:28:28 PM »

This whole thing is all about metabolic pathways by which the body manages tissue repair and inflammatory response.  And THAT is precisely the path to reversal and healing.  - George

yeah, that's why i think it's almost not really a urology problem...it's basically a wound healing issue.  the same people who do burn research should be looking at Peyronies Disease...not urologists.  urologists treat prostate cancer, bladder issues, etc...  i think one of the reasons Peyronies Disease is so far behind in any advances is that it's way outside their focus.
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torn

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Re: Levaquin / Quinolone Antibiotics - Who Else?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2011, 11:27:42 PM »

I hate the fact that I basically did this to myself, first with the pump then then the cipro. I want my normal life back.. I haven't had normal function of my member in over 2 years. When I think back to just 3 years ago and prior I get so sad. From being a normal sexually active guy in my twenties to now this.

The mental anguish is killing me. I try to just not think about it but its impossible. Sex ruled my life.. I never would of.thought that my sexual function would be impaired at such a young age. I'd do anything to go back and change what I did. I can't live the rest of my life like.this..

And knowing that theres no cure makes me lose hope. I just started on ubiquinol and am gonna continue would the vitamin e and fish oil, but I know it probably won't do anything ultimately... but its all I got.

This is beyond depressing its mentally killing me.
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justbob

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Re: Levaquin / Quinolone Antibiotics - Who Else?
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2011, 11:04:00 AM »

I saw a post in the compiled thread about another poster who developed Peyronies Disease while on levaquin.  I have been on levaquin a few times, but I developed the most rapid / severe case of Peyronies Disease in November / December when I was on levaquin again (the 3rd time I believe).  Levaquin is known to damage certain kinds of tissue - particularly the achilles tendon.  This damage is observable under the microscope as well - it makes the tissue stiff and inflexible, leading to rupture in some cases.   Perhaps it caused changes to the tissue in the penis as well... what do u think?

Yes I agree, I think there could be a connection with Fluoroquinolone (Quinolone) antibiotics.  I took Ciprofloxacin twice and Levofloxacin once before developing Peyronies.  First time I took Cipro was for a sinus infection in my mid-twenties, afterwards I thought maybe my erections weren't quite as strong but I dismissed the thought almost as soon as I had it.  Aged 30 I took Levofloxacin, I had a bad reaction to it and stopped after a few doses, it caused long term complications of tendonitis and vitreous floaters.  Aged 33 I took Ciprofloxacin for prostatitis and again developed tendonitis and changes in vision.  While I was taking the Cipro I continued to gently stretch my penis every morning in the shower (as usual) until one morning when this caused pain in the connective tissue at the base of the penis on the left hand side.  After this I felt that there was a loss of elasticity on that side of the penis but my erections were still straight.  Aged 34 over a year after taking the Cipro I developed _new_ onset pain at the base of my penis and curvature to the left...
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hunchback

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antibiotics as a contributing factor
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2011, 08:13:28 AM »

i have no doubt that my Peyronies Disease was caused by physical injury (slowly over time). however i have been looking for contributing factors to ease my mind somehow.

it started 4 years ago with a very high psa for my age. i was initially treated with flowmax and finasteride. also my uro thought it may be chronic prostatitis so i started a several month course of cipro.

later, my psa was lower, but not enough. i talked the uro out of doing a biopsy and letting me try a 90 day course of ofloxacin based on my own research. it didn't go down enough. i stopped that before the biopsy. shortly after i had the officially diagnosed Peyronies Disease (and by the way i was taking probiotics and eating a cup and a half of plain yogurt at the time, outside of the times i was taking the antibiotics).

the official warning on ofloxacin is: Taking ofloxacin increases the risk that you will develop tendinitis (swelling of a fibrous tissue that connects a bone to a muscle) or have a tendon rupture (tearing of a fibrous tissue that connects a bone to a muscle) during your treatment or for up to several months afterward. These problems may affect tendons in your shoulder, your hand, the back of your ankle, or in other parts of your body.

during the months before the biopsy i had noticed my erections were what i perceived as extremely hard so much that i commented it felt like a rhino horn. in retrospect it was an increasing curve and possible pain.

so fascia and tendon rupture are possible with ofloxacin. what do you think?
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0x5555

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Re: antibiotics as a contributing factor
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2011, 11:56:22 AM »

I'd actually be more concerned about the finasteride.  http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/

Are you trying to find these contributing factors because you feel like you caused the peyronies and want to try and find some outside factor for this happening?
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hunchback

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Re: antibiotics as a contributing factor
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2011, 10:21:18 PM »

Are you trying to find these contributing factors because you feel like you caused the peyronies and want to try and find some outside factor for this happening?

as far as answering your question: people usually inappropriately internalize or externalize their problems. it's part of coping.

i am simply looking for discussion on a particular topic, which is antibiotics possible role in contributing to Peyronies Disease
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0x5555

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Re: antibiotics as a contributing factor
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2011, 10:34:14 PM »

Yup.  Like I said, not sure about antibiotics but I do know procepia has side effects including Erectile Dysfunction.
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Ben

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Re: antibiotics as a contributing factor
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2011, 11:58:07 AM »

I had peyronie while on noroxin, and one young guy had the same. Just a minor trauma and ...bang... peyronie. I quite sure there is a link between antibiotics and Peyronie.
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fubar

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Re: antibiotics as a contributing factor
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2011, 11:26:22 PM »

Ben
!,!
Probably many links! Duyptrens, heart disease, diabeties,blood pressure meds, erectile dysfunction., gout, esophagus reflex,  maybe most prominant hardening of arteies dont you think!
When everything gets crimped and broken.there is the major three construction,  disease and lathargic episodes.

Fubar
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torn

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Re: Levaquin / Quinolone Antibiotics - Who Else?
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2011, 02:47:15 AM »

Well, its been about 9 months since developing peyronies while taking cipro.. and I haven't got any better. I OFFICIALLY HATE CULTIVATION IT HAS RUINED MY LIFE. There are so many people who've suffered different severe side effects from that poison, the pharmacuitical companies need to be prosecuted, seriously. Was only on it for 2 weeks and now the rest of my life is ruined.
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hornman

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Re: Levaquin / Quinolone Antibiotics - Who Else?
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2011, 02:32:40 PM »

I too was on cipro when I developed peyronies.  My thinking is that if cipro caused this then it is not conventional peyronies and some of the conventional treatments like Pentox will be of no help.  Cipro also caused Anal leakage problems and terrible hemorroid flareups which still bother me 2 yrs later.  My doc says this is all just a coincidence.  I don't agree with him.  Sucks.
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bert

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Re: antibiotics as a contributing factor
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2011, 10:37:17 AM »

I did a month of Cipro about 4 or 5 months prior to developing Peyronie's. I wish there were more polls on this forum to explore possible causes like this.
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Saint Hubbins
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bert

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Re: Levaquin / Quinolone Antibiotics - Who Else?
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2011, 10:39:40 AM »

I just posted this in another thread, but I took cipro for a month about 4 to 5 months before developing Peyronies. I too got hemorrhoids just after completing the treatment.
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Saint Hubbins
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torn

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Re: antibiotics as a contributing factor
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2011, 12:53:29 PM »

I developed Peyronies Disease while on cipro. Finasteride screws a lot of people up sexually, some have even developed Peyronies Disease while using it.
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MikeSmith0

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Re: antibiotics as a contributing factor
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2011, 04:04:49 AM »

i definitely think cipro and levaquin cause this... but they dont cause it in enough people (and people dont like telling their doctors about Peyronies Disease) to have gotten this issue to raise red flags.  these antibiotics interfere with collagen synthesis - which is proven and published..and part of why it can disrupt tendons.  i think it's absolutely responsible for Peyronies Disease in some people...but not everyone who takes cipro will get Peyronies Disease...so the medical community doesn't want to accept this suggestion.

In particular, the young patients - who have very low risk of Peyronies Disease - have often gotten it after taking levaquin or cipro. 

propecia also causes problems...but those seem more related to Erectile Dysfunction .
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fubar

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Re: antibiotics as a contributing factor
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2011, 12:08:29 AM »

Mike

You definitly think along the lines of me you and ben.I have had antibiotics during the time before and after the peyronies discovery.To include both or one of those antibiotics mentioned , i will have to check.I also have taken a couple a a couple of blood pressure medicine known to break immune resistance in the body.

I still belive there is a trauma factor involved be it a direct blow or constriction , by way of constriction rings, over pumping using the ved ect.

Fubar
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lespleen

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Re: antibiotics as a contributing factor
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2011, 11:46:12 AM »

i was on cipro shortly before having noticed some of the first signs of peyronie's....accompanied with self induced trauma via jelquing......
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fubar

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Re: antibiotics as a contributing factor
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2011, 01:13:41 AM »

Lespleen

Trauma is always a factor.I know many do not want to reveal that but it is true to our disease. cause and effect. And you are left with what the f*:"%!.

Fubar
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hunchback

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Re: antibiotics as a contributing factor
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2011, 11:03:52 AM »

Trauma is always a factor.

I agree trauma is the main issue, however, imagine for example i was a body builder and i suddenly after years of weight lifting got a torn tendon or an issue related to my fascia. If I was taking a 6 week course of antibiotics for chronic prostatitis shortly before that and i read the warnings about a precaution that said it may cause tendon and connective issue problems, I would question that.
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pizzaman

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Re: Levaquin / Quinolone Antibiotics - Who Else?
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2012, 02:14:59 AM »

I started having tendon problems after a couple weeks of quinolone antibiotics for walking pneumonia, then I stopped immediately. I ended up having to go to physical therapy for months, then the Peyronie's struck. It began about 3 months after the Levaquin.

We have to remember though, that  floroquinolone antibiotics are prescribed to millions upon millions of people per year, so there's bound to be some overlap between these antibiotics and almost any other conditions. On the other hand, fluoroquinolones do attack collagen containing tissue, which would, I suppose included the tunica. With all due respect to PDGuess, fluoroquinolones suspend fibrosis during the relatively short time they're active in the body only. The issues like tendon ruptures often happen much  later on because, as I understand, there's DNA damage done to the soft tissue cells which can compound over time.
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MikeSmith0

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Re: ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2012, 10:32:31 AM »

I have done a lot of research into this and talked to a molecular biologist PhD about this.  There is a clear link between this class of antibiotics and tendon damage, documented in all medical literature on these drugs.  The leap to claim that there is a link between these antibiotics and Peyronies Disease is really tiny... these antibiotics DO CAUSE Peyronies Disease, and we are proof of that.   The small percentage of  people who ruptured tendons shows that it does not happen to everyone - but it DOES happen.  The same goes for Peyronies Disease.

I did not sign up to have Peyronies Disease at my age - my life is pretty much ruined and I just turned 30.  If I never took levaquin, this never would have happened.   I never had an injury.  I have no family history.  I have no health problems.  There is no doubt in my mind about this anymore - zero.  Historically it has been unheard of to have Peyronies Disease under 50 years old.   Levaquin is new - however, and it has changed things.  I have no doubt that it causes the damage that results in Peyronies Disease in SOME people - a smaller percent than those fracturing their tendons, perhaps... but still enough that if they KNEW ABOUT THE TENDONS all along - they should have warned about the tunica of the penis!  The tissue is very similar, and so is the damage.   However, would ANYONE take an antibiotic that would deform their penis?  No - and this is why it was concealed.  They made billions off these antibiotics that I certainly never would have taken if I knew had a risk like this.

Please send me a private message if you are one of the people injured by these antibiotics (particularly the younger people on this board - who would NEVER have had Peyronies Disease by any statistical probability were it not for these antibiotics).  I would like to start contacting lawyers & moving forward with this - but I cannot do it alone.  I am sure it will require calling 20-30 law firms to find someone to take the case & then 5-7 years of litigation, but they need to pay for what they did.

Read more: http://www.schmidtandclark.com/levaquin
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james1947

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Re: ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2012, 07:47:29 PM »

MikeSmith0

I don't think my Peyronies is directly connected to antibiotics (who knows) but I wish you
Full success making them to pay for the damage they have done to you and others!
I am praying for your success

James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

MikeSmith0

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Re: ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2013, 08:35:36 AM »

Thanks James. 

It looks like 13 guys here can (at least, roughly) connect Peyronie's directly to quinolone use (though correlation does not imply causation - it's still odd).  I did some research and found this quote:

"Quinolones have been known to cause direct toxicity to type 1 collagen synthesis and promote collagen degradation"

The Risk of Fluoroquinolone-induced Tendinopathy and Tendon Rupture

I've mentioned this to doctors and they think it is absurd because they say "with all the Cipro I give out - I'd have 100 patients with Peyronie's" - well (a) do you have 100 patients which Achilles tendon fractures (which is a warning in the package)? No.  Not everyone gets this side effect (only 4%).  But, quinolones interfere with collagen synthesis, especially in tendons or tendon-like tissue (see above link).  Also (b) Peyronie's develops as a consequence of the damage caused by quinolones.  It probably fractures the tunica in microscopic ways, and prevents normal healing.  And (c) "plenty of people have Peyronies Disease who never took quinolones".  Well, plenty of people who never took quinolones have Achilles tendon fractures too.  Anyway, these statements to most doctors fall on deaf ears.

Some other stuff I found:

The odds of tendon rupture are 4.3% from quinolone use.   Increased risk of achilles tendon ... [Arch Intern Med. 2003 Aug 11-25] - PubMed - NCBI

Maybe it's the same for Peyronies Disease.  Not high enough % to set off alarms, but enough that it's real.
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DO

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Re: ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2013, 11:19:13 AM »

Quinolones  are very dangerous,
I took TEQUIN and it destroyed all my beta cells that made insulin! I became a insulin dependent diabetic...It is not on the market anymore. When you look at the warnings they are not to be used for anyone over 65... I was 47 at the time.! Now that I have! my Peyronies Disease I wonder it that the reason why and it is too late to do anything about it!
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MikeSmith0

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Re: ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2013, 06:35:30 PM »

Quinolones  are very dangerous,
I took TEQUIN and it destroyed all my beta cells that made insulin! I became a insulin dependent diabetic...It is not on the market anymore. When you look at the warnings they are not to be used for anyone over 65... I was 47 at the time.! Now that I have! my Peyronies Disease I wonder it that the reason why and it is too late to do anything about it!

Wow - that's terrible. Sorry to hear that. I can't believe a drug could do that to you... did you ever consider suing them?  Also, did your Peyronies Disease develop around the time of Tequin or much later?  The tendon ruptures can happen within hours to months, according to that research i posted below.
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funnyfarm

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Re: ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor
« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2013, 06:53:29 PM »

be careful of these, esp levaquin which is prescribed like candy for prostatitis even though it has a black box warning.  The reviews read like a modern day horror story of permanent drug induced damage:

http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=20635&name=LEVAQUIN
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When you are in tune with the unknown, the known is peaceful.

james1947

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Re: ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2013, 04:51:25 PM »

Avoid antibiotics as much as you can (not always possible).
Less you are using them, better chance that when you will need them they will help, even the basic old ones.
Not scientific approach, just my own experience 8)

James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

newlybent

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Re: ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2013, 05:31:51 PM »

Count me as another one that developed Peyronie's immediately following a course of Cipro.  In my case the Cipro was (mis)prescribed for a MRSA staph infection I got at the incision site following vasectomy.  I've always assumed the Peyronie's was a result somehow of the staph infection (which my brother jokingly calls my staff infection) in that area.  The Cipro of course did nothing for the infection because it's ineffective against staph.  Finally Bactrim cleared it up.  Then I got Peyronie's.  I'm currently six months into it and it's still progressing rapidly despite Pentox and Colcrys and all the usual supplements.

Interesting theory that perhaps the Cipro is to blame.  MikeSmith0, any new news on your research into this?
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chefcasey

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Re: ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor
« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2013, 07:18:02 PM »

Wow, just read this whole thread for the first time.  Cipro was prescribed to me a year ago when I had a nasty abscess in my jawbone.  It didn't kill it so they tried another antibiotic which did.  I already had Peyronies Disease but it was stable for the most part, it has gotten progressively worse since that time though.  I also developed a c diff infection in my digestive tract that's been bothering me ever since, most likely from the antibiotics, and I'm now on a second round of antibiotics to try and kill the c diff.  It's been quite a bad year for me, but at least I know what's been causing it now.
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jjohn82

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Re: ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2013, 09:51:42 PM »

Add me too. I finished a 28 day run of generic Cipro (500MG 2x day). Three days after being off, I had massive pressure at the base of the shaft and going down some. The pressure subsided to just being more of a discomfort now, however I noticed a small lump (hard to see still) on the right side. There is also slight pain/ache/pinch/discomfort when lifting the non-erect penis up, and moving it in general.

Today I am unable to get an erection, though I can feel some pleasure still.

Search around the internet... Cipro and friends are evil drugs.

I have no idea what to do now, I'm 31 and this sucks. I don't really notice any curving yet at least, but the bump is still small, but tender.
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George999

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Re: ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2013, 10:25:43 AM »

Here is a pretty thorough trashing of Cipro like drugs.  I took a lot of Cipro over the years and ended up with both Peyronie's and Peripheral Neuropathy.  Did Cipro have something to do with that?  I really have no way to know, but if you read this article it will give you goosebumps.  It is really quite disgusting that the FDA lets the pharmaceutical companies get away with so much.  In my case after routinely taking Cipro for years, the docs finally discovered that my urinary tract problem was being caused by inflammation, NOT infection, and after getting my vitamin D levels up and taking some DHEA, I simply don't get infections anymore and even not as much inflammation either.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/09/25/fluoroquinolone-antibiotics.aspx
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Jed

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Re: ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2014, 02:36:33 PM »

my peyronies started after an injury however at the time I was on antibiotics for a sinus infection as well as steroids
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Caesar

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Regarding antibiotics and TGF-β1
« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2014, 07:56:23 PM »

at the time I was on antibiotics for a sinus infection as well as steroids

Jed,

Do you mean anabolic steroids? If so. Did you experience some Erectile Dysfunction after a cycle?
Not long ago, I read of a bodybuilder who developed Peyronies Disease also, and it came to my mind after reading you. Probably a poor quality erection, after certain roids cycle that caused hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, led to an injury and the antibiotics caused an immune system malfunction (specifically a TGF-β1 increased activity, which is a cytokine).

The supposed process in Peyronies Disease is:

Vascular trauma ---(triggers)---> Release of cytokines --(activates)---> Fibroblast proliferation   Collagen production

That's why pentox is supposed to work: by inhibiting TGF-β1.
On its side, Verapamil can reduce fibroblast proliferation, resulting in reduced production of collagen.


I believe, as I've read quite a few papers so far, that independently of the role of any etiological risk factor, the process of development of Peyronies Disease is fairly well known.
So my point is that you shouldn't torment yourselves about having taken antibiotics since many others haven't developed the disease with the same drugs. I don't think antibiotics would be more a contributing factor than a bacterial infection, beta blockers or barbiturates; to give some documented risk factors.



Anyway, to contribute directly to this topic, I'd like to share some information I have been gathering today:

"Ciprofloxacin decreases survival in HT-29 cells via the induction of TGF-β1 secretion" (HT-29 are cancerous cells by the way)
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1476-5381.2009.00161.x/full

"Bleomycin (BM), a potent antineoplastic antibiotic increases TGF-beta1 transcription, TGF-beta1 gene expression, and TGF-beta protein"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17387717

"Convincing evidence exists that several other drugs in common use also stimulate TGF-β activity, including the immunosuppressant antibiotic Rapamycin" (used normally after transplants)
http://cardiovascres.oxfordjournals.org/content/74/2/213.long
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12752312?dopt=Abstract



But in some cases bacterial activity can increase levels of TGF-β1...

"Rats with chronic colitis showed increased levels of TGF-β1, TNF-α, and collagen in the tissue and a high rate of bowel strictures. Antibiotic treatment significantly prevented the increase in TGF-β1 and collagen and the formation of strictures. Inoculation of bacterial suspensions into the colonic wall increased tissue TGF-β1 and collagen content. Neutralizing antibody to TGF-β1 prevented collagen deposition."
http://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085%2898%2970535-9/abstract

"Videla et al. and Mourelle et al. also showed that the vancomycin-imipenem combination was superior to single antibiotics, including metronidazole, in experimental colitis induced by trinitrobenzene sulfonic acid (53) and could prevent fibrosis in these rats with induced colonic ulcers"
http://iai.asm.org/content/69/4/2277.full
(this quote refers to the study above)
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Age: 37
First onset: January 2014 (lasted 16 months) | Treatment: Q10 (ubiquinol) + Acetyl-L-Carnitine | Result: 15º curvature to right and narrowing at the base.
Second onset: January 2020.

George999

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Re: ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor
« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2014, 08:13:12 PM »

Caesar, Jed is talking about Antibiotics as are used to fight infections, NOT bodybuilding stuff, although those also could possibly contribute to Peyronie's.  But the topic here is Antibiotics. 
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james1947

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Re: ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2014, 05:12:00 PM »

Caesar

If you are deleting a post, the answer to it became meaningless!!!
It is affecting the forum negatively!!!
Please restore your post!!!


James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
Got amazing support on the forum

Caesar

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Re: ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2014, 09:25:24 PM »

Thanks James, post restored and increased in content.

Please George999, be easy on me. I understand the importance of sticking to the main topic, but I also find relevant other data that users provide, since correlation doesn't imply causation.
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Age: 37
First onset: January 2014 (lasted 16 months) | Treatment: Q10 (ubiquinol) + Acetyl-L-Carnitine | Result: 15º curvature to right and narrowing at the base.
Second onset: January 2020.

FredLI

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Re: ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor
« Reply #48 on: July 25, 2014, 01:41:45 PM »

After reading through these posts, I realize that my development of Peyronies Disease occurred shortly after an extended (3 month) use of Doxcycline for Lyme Disease. Has anyone else had a similar experience?
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emasculated

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Re: ANTIBIOTICS - a contributing factor
« Reply #49 on: July 25, 2014, 04:32:35 PM »

This subject is really making me depressed. After I had the first symptoms in August last year the dumb urologist prescribed cipro to me. I only took it for a few days, but 1000 mg a day. I discovered plaque 3 months later!! Probably without the Cipro it would have never developed. ARGH. This is not post hoc ergo propter hoc, because in my opinion the link between such soft tissue problems and Cipro is just too clear.
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