SUPPLEMENTS - effectiveness, interaction & questions

[newguy]

Antifibrotic Effects of Green Tea
ScienceDaily (Nov. 25, 2009) — Several studies have shown that lipid peroxidation stimulates collagen production in fibroblasts and hepatic stellate cells (HSC), and plays an important role in the development of liver fibrosis. Hepatoprotective effects of green tea against carbon tetrachloride, cholestasis and alcohol induced liver fibrosis were reported in many studies. However, the hepatoprotective effect of green tea in dimethylnitrosamine (DMN)-induced models has not been studied.

A research article published on November 7, 2009 in the World Journal of Gastroenterology addresses this question. The research team, led by Prof. Hong-Yon Cho from Korea University examined the protective effect of green tea extract (GT) on hepatic fibrosis in a rat HSC line and in a rat model of DMN-induced hepatic fibrosis.

The results showed GT administration prevented the development of hepatic fibrosis in the rat model of DMN-induced liver fibrosis. These results were confirmed both by liver histology and by quantitative measurement of hepatic hydroxyproline content, a marker of liver collagen deposition. Accordingly, inhibition of proliferation, reduced collagen deposition, and type 1 collagen expression were observed in activated HSC-T6 cells following GT treatment. These results imply that GT reduced the proliferation of activated HSC and down regulated the collagen content and expression of collagen type 1, thereby ameliorating hepatic fibrosis.

The researchers drew a conclusion that green tea may protect liver cells and reduce the deposition of collagen fibers in the liver. Green tea provides a safe and effective strategy for improving hepatic fibrosis.

-http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091118101359.htm

I'm not posting this here as a suggestion but rather as something to be discussed. I am aware that caffeine is a vaso-constrictor and as such, at this time I tend to stay away from excessive consumption of caffinated beverages. I do occasionally have decaffeinated coffee and tea, though I appreciate that decaf drinks actually do still contain tiny amounts of caffeine.

On the plus side, green tea does have antiglycation and antioxidant properties properties. Info has been posted here previously in relation to collegan and green tea so I thought I'd post this brand new study. Perhaps it is something that can be useful, especially in combination with recognised  effective treatments.

[Skjaldborg]

I remember reading something recently about coffee also having anti-fibrotic effects on the liver as well. I believe the article said it may have some positive effect on alcoholic liver disease. Not an excuse to go out and ruin your liver though.

-Skjald

[George999]

Green tea is VERY healthy in terms of food and beverage choices.  I was using it for some time.  It was not noticeably effective in terms of dealing with Peyronie's.  Like a lot of other things, I think it probably has a marginally anti-fibrotic effect, but not significant enough to be noticeable.  - George

[slowandsteady]

Silibinin is derived from milk thistle, a supplement often used because it protects the liver.

It turns out that silibinin has antifibrotic properties in the liver (PMID 9450168). By reducing proliferation of hepatic stellate cells (which go on to form myofibroblasts) and by reducing the rate at which their transformation to myofibroblasts occurs, less myofibroblasts are formed.

In addition, silibinin "reduced the transformation towards myofibroblasts and down-regulated the gene expression of extracellular matrix components and the profibrogenic transforming growth beta". TGF beta 1 is overexpressed in Peyronies Disease as are myofibroblasts, so lowering them is good.

Most of the studies refer to liver and kidney fibrosis. I don't know if it would work in other parts of the body too.

Silibinin is a candidate for topical application (PMID 20023692).

s&s

[slowandsteady]

From the paper Silymarin retards collagen accumulation in early and advanced biliary fibrosis secondary to complete bile duct obliteration in rats (PMID 9303494):

Because SIL at 50 mg/kg/d also reduced the collagen content per gram of liver tissue, it acted as a true antifibrotic agent.

50mg/kg/d (required for collagen reduction in rat livers) comes to about 550 mg/day in a 145 pound human, adjusting from rat to human by a factor of 6 less. That amount fits in with the recommended dosages in the LEF article on silibinin, and comes to two capsules a day of the LEF product.

I have some on hand and will give it a try, orally and topically (mixed in coconut oil).

s&s

[slowandsteady]

I'd like to start a thread for potassium iodide to examine some the claims surrounding it. It is often found as SSKI (saturated solution of potassium iodide). I got a bottle from the Tahoma clinic.

Dr. Wright has an article on the medicinal uses of SSKI in which he specifically mentions Peyronies Disease:

"Dupuytren's contracture" and "Peyronie's disease" are two "fibrotic" conditions that can be helped considerably by SSKI. In Dupuytren's contracture, thickening (fibrosis) occurs along one of the tendons in the palm in the hand, pulling the related finger down towards the palm. As the problem progresses, the finger often can't be straightened any more.

In Peyronie's disease, a very similar thickening occurs along the shaft of the penis, making erections increasing "curved" and painful. In both cases, rubbing SSKI into the thickened tissue at least twice daily softens and lessens the fibrotic area over a period of several months, allowing for more normal function.

For these conditions, it's additionally helpful to take para-aminobenzoic acid (PABA) 2 grams, three times daily, and to rub a mixture of Vitamin E and DMSO into the thickened areas, also. However, if "caught early", SSKI alone will often "do the job". (It's also advisable to have glucose-insulin tolerance test done, as there's an unusually high incidence of "insulin resistance" in people with Dupuytren's contracture or Peyronie's disease.

He doesn't state the oral dose for Peyronies Disease, but for fibrocystic breast disease and ovarian cysts he writes:

Eight drops in a glass of water daily usually works in a matter of just two to five months. There's one important thing you need to remember though: High doses of iodine or iodide can sometimes reduce thyroid function.

Fortunately, the thyroid gland is very resilient and almost always completely recovers once you stop taking the iodide or iodine. I've hardly ever seen this happen in women using SSKI for the problems you're having, but it's still best to have your thyroid function checked periodically whenever you're using it -- just to be on the safe side.

Regarding thyroid function, a 2007 study found the molecular form of iodine presents no health issue when supplemented chronically at doses designed to impact cancer (PMID 17956159).

Has anyone seen this 2001 study from Yugoslavia involving KI and Peyronies Disease PMID 11475478?

OBJECTIVE: Peyronie disease is a localized and progressive fibrosis. It is characterized by a plaque in the tunica albuginea, which leads to penile deformity, making sexual intercourse difficult, if not impossible. DESIGN: During a 4-yr period, we treated 35 patients, aged 30-62 yr, in different stages of this disease. We applied ultrasound therapy (0.5 W/cm; 10 min), infrared radiation, and iontophoresis with 8% potassium iodide (0.2 mA; 30 min). The patients were taught to administer therapy by themselves. The patients' diseases were classified into three stages on the basis of subjective symptoms and clinical findings. At the beginning of treatment, 20 patients' diseases were classified as being in the first stage, 13 patients' diseases in the second stage, and 2 patients' diseases in the third stage. RESULTS: By the end of treatment, 10 patients were cured, 17 patients' diseases were classified as being in the first stage, 8 patients' diseases were in the second stage, and there were no patients in the third stage. CONCLUSIONS: The method is simple, safe, painless, and inexpensive. Patients were taught to administer the therapy by themselves. There were no side effects. Functional improvement and the cessation of pain were noted by all the patients. The level of improvement depended on the disease duration, the length of therapy, and the stage of the disease.

I'm going to give oral and topical SSKI a shot.

s&s

[Iceman]

S+S _ let me know how you go - i tried some drops about 2 yrs ago that said would eliminate scar tissue BUT HA!!!! - waste of $$$ as usual - but give it a go and keep us updated - im now trying keto 7 and pycnogenol but to be honest with you I reckon the VED is the best therapy -  

[slowandsteady]

I had to take a break from topical DMSO (70%) and SSKI -- too much skin irritation. I'm still taking SSKI orally, and I'd recommend taking not taking it on an empty stomach to avoid possible stomach upset.

[Blade]

Used SSKI (Upsher-Smith) alone topically on my unit for 2 weeks with no change, in fact, the bents got a little worse. I did have mild irriation from SSKI during that period. Finally got DMSO brought to me here ( Saudi Arabia ) and will add SSKI to the DMSO 99.9% (Jacobs Lab) and Vitamin E as referenced by Dr Wright in his article. Will proceed with care and see what happens. Updates to follow.

[slowandsteady]

I'm finding oral SSKI to be promising so far, though I haven't been on it a full month yet. I'm taking 8 drops a day, sometimes twice daily.

[slowandsteady]

I had a PM about safety concerns. It appears that KI has been used in far larger doses historically from this article:

This 19th and early 20th century medicine continues to be used in gram amounts in the 21st century by dermatologists. They treat inflammatory dermatoses, like nodular vasculitis and pyoderma gangrenosum (shown here), with SSKI, beginning with an iodine dose of 900 mg a day, followed by weekly increases up to 6 grams a day as tolerated. Fungal eruptions, like sporotrichosis, are treated initially in gram amounts with great success. These lesions can disappear within two weeks after treatment with iodine.

For many years physicians used potassium iodide in doses starting at 1.5 to 3 gm and up to more than 10 grams a day, on and off, to treat bronchial asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease with good results and surprisingly few side effects.

There is a case report in the medical literature of a 54-year-old man who, thinking it was iced tea, drank a "home preparation" of SSKI in water that his aunt kept in the refrigerator for her rheumatism. Over a short period of time he consumed 600 ml of this solution, which contained 15 gm of iodide, an amount 100,000 times more than the RDI. He developed swelling of the face, neck, and mouth, had transient cardiac arrhythmias and made an uneventful recovery.

So far on as much as 150 mg of iodide/day, I have not had any adverse symptoms, though obviously I'm going to monitor things as I go along.

[slowandsteady]

I wrote a post about trigger points (muscle knots) a while back. Since I've started SSKI, they are 90% better. I'm still hopeful about SSKI and Peyronies Disease.

[slowandsteady]

I'm getting some stomach upset with 8 drops (200 mg) of SSKI. Best to take on a full stomach.

[slowandsteady]

Eight drops of SSKI proved too much for my digestive tract, causing the runs, which throws my marathon training for a loop by zapping me of energy.

I've switched to 2 drops of Lugol's solution at breakfast and dinner because it has molecular iodine, which has shown better results in treating fibrocystic breast disease. Breast tissue concentrates iodine, so what happens in breast tissue might not be applicable to the tunica.

[alexk]

Breast tissue concentrates iodine, so what happens in breast tissue might not be applicable to the tunica.

True, but the prostate also benefits from extra iodine, so if you felt that you were deficient in iodine, your prostate might have needed a bit. If the prostate is inflamed the muscles nearby will contact, and that's going to slowly pinch off the blood supply "downstream" and caused localized inflammation. It's one explanation for the vague syndrome called prostatitis.

I ordered some iodine a few days ago and I'm pleased to find some discussion of it here. I have tons of muscle knots like you mentioned once, and they're in lumpy clusters everywhere, with a particular concentration in my pectoral muscles. It may or may not be similar to fibrocystic tissue but I'm going to try out the iodine anyway, especially since you noted roughly 90% improvement in muscle knots after taking SSKI.

The relationship between the thyroid, iodine, and calcium (calcification?) seems to be the link here. Calcium can overexcite the muscles, and it doesn't necessarily depend on hypercalcemia (too much calcium). I have had normal calcium levels on all blood tests, and still, taking calcium always leads to a day of muscle spasms. Another story for another day.

[crashbandit]

I have taken a prostate formulae supplement in the past which have been great for giving me a nice plump penis all day long. It had things like pumpkin seed and  It just feel good to be walking around with a great healthy hanger. lol, you know what I mean.

The prostate supplement I've used for this affect in the past does sadly wear out after awhile, usually after about 3 weeks. Why does this happen with supplements? Can someone recommend something else that might have this effect aswell? Does trazodone or ALC have this effect? Cause I'm already thinking about taking those supplements.

Thanks

[slowandsteady]

Red palm oil is a rich source of vitamin E, carotenes, and coQ10. From Stephan's post at his whole health source blog:

The red color comes from carotenes, but red palm oil also contains a large amount of vitamin E (mostly tocotrienols), vitamin K1, coenzyme Q10 and assorted other fat-soluble constituents. This adds up to a very high concentration of fat-soluble antioxidants, which are needed to protect the fat from rancidity in hot and sunny West Africa. Some of these make it into the body when it's ingested, where they appear to protect the body's own fats from oxidation.

I'm going to use a tablespoon of red palm oil as a replacement for vitamin E. I'm also going to take my dosage of ubiquinol at the same time as the red palm oil.

s&s

[crashbandit]

Nice, so how many UI's of Vit E does this equal? Where do you buy your red palm oil and is it expensive?

[slowandsteady]

I got the Tropical Traditions product at Amazon. There is about 16 mg of mixed tocopherols and tocotrienols in a tablespoon of red palm oil, not nearly as much as in a Jarrow Famile, but maybe taking E in doses far beyond quantities found in food is not a good idea -- who knows ...

[slowandsteady]

I seem to be getting a bit of relief taking whey protein on an empty stomach. It is a way of increasing cellular glutathione. Thought I'd mention it.

s&s

[tl48]

I have been reading all of the past posts regarding oral supplements and I need some help  I took some chemistry classes in college but I am reading about so many different options- sometimes I think you have to be a pharmacist to understand.  I am probably like many on this forum that will do just about anything within reason to try and find a remedy.  In layman's terms, it sounds like Ubiquinol, Pentox, PQQ, and ALC have at some point shown some success with either certain studies or individuals.  Can you take them all at once?  If so, how much of each?  Unless I have missed it, (quite possible), how about ONE specific category that lists all of the supplements with a recommended dosage and if there is a synergystic effect with any other product?  I just got my pentox perscription and I want to maximize my chances with any of these other supplements.  Thanks!  

[George999]

1)  Pentox has the best research data behind it, followed by Ubiquinol, followed by ALC (Acetyl L Carnitine).  There is NO research data supporting the use of PQQ for Peyronie's.  A couple of us are taking PQQ simply because we believe it might be helpful, but there is NO objective data at this point to indicate that it is.

2)  I know of no interaction between Pentox, Ubiquinol, and ALC.  I am NOT a pharmacist.  Ask a pharmacist if in doubt.  They ARE the experts.

3)  Pentox is 400mg 3X per day usually.  Ubiquinol is 100mg 3X per day and ALC is 2 or 3g per day.

I am using Pentox + Ubiquinol with good results.  I would be taking ALC as well if I could tolerate it.

- George

[crashbandit]

I saw this supplement on the Dr.Oz show the other day. I think I'm going to give this stuff a whirl and see how it compares to ubiquinol. I'm going to try 8 mg a day. I've also switched from fish oil to krill oil. The krill oil is more expensive but suppose to be much more effective, plus it has an extra 1.5 mg of astaxanthin in it.

Anybody try astaxanthin?

[BrooksBro]

I also watched that show.  Dr. Joseph Mercola (DO) said astaxanthin was the one supplement everyone should be taking, but never heard of before.  He is a big proponent of vitamin D.  I was pleased to see him mention L-Arginine as a supplement helpful for men.    

You can watch that 5-minute segment here:  
http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/surprising-supplement-you-need

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astaxanthin

[George999]

I took astaxanthin for quite a while.  Life Extension has been promoting it for some time for eye health.  They sell it in a combination pill containing Lutein 10mg, Zeaxanthin/Meso-Zeaxanthin 3.75mg, Astaxanthin 6mg and Cyanidin-3Glucoside 2.2mg.  Since my Peyronie's has been essentially a non-issue before, during and after the time I was taking it, I have no idea on how it affect Peyronie's.  I did really like the supplement and will be taking it on and off occasionally in the future.  Another supplement of interest might be Billberry.  Billberry works by increasing collagen links in the vascular system thus preventing white blood cells from leaking out abnormally and causing inflammation in surrounding tissues.  Pretty cool.  I've got some on order at this point.  - George

[samsabina]

Did anybody continue with SSKI and see results?  

[rd]

I've been taking 7 drops a day with water once a day for a little over a month. I tried applying it with the dmso and vitamin E but got irritation so now I just do take it with water. I will let you know what I see. I am also taking a bunch of other oral treatments as well.

[samsabina]

I'm doing the DMSO and Vitamin E from the PDI website, along with the sulphur liquid. I think it has kept my plaques softer longer - Dr. Mulhall says he hasn't seen anyone maintain this softness of plaque for so long. But of course he thinks all topical/DMSO applications are "expensive placebo."

[jetedwardz]

hi names jim ive had the Peyronies Disease for 8 months now and i know i will be recognized by my thread where i went over everything from constriction to a vaccuum cleaner(not my most popular idea) but any ways can someone tell me the amount of coq10 i should take daily maybe even the amount of times a day etc
also this is probably just a waste but a came across and ad for noprical; some herbal pills that claims to do great things in a month bla bla bla is this legit at all? i didnt even see the price on it just wonderin if anyone has seen it or tried it etc.     THANX SO MUCH FOR ALL THE HELP AND TIME FROM MY PREVIOUS TOPICS AND THIS ONE AND THIS SITE IN GENERAL.  

i currently tak 2g a carnitine 2g arginine bunch of low quality vit e coq10 a generic multi.

also is vit d a good thing for peyronies sufferers. i dont drink or eat dairy should i take more vit d?

[George999]

hi names jim ive had the Peyronies Disease for 8 months now and i know i will be recognized by my thread where i went over everything from constriction to a vaccuum cleaner(not my most popular idea) but any ways can someone tell me the amount of coq10 i should take daily maybe even the amount of times a day etc
also this is probably just a waste but a came across and ad for noprical; some herbal pills that claims to do great things in a month bla bla bla is this legit at all? i didnt even see the price on it just wonderin if anyone has seen it or tried it etc.     THANX SO MUCH FOR ALL THE HELP AND TIME FROM MY PREVIOUS TOPICS AND THIS ONE AND THIS SITE IN GENERAL.  

i currently tak 2g a carnitine 2g arginine bunch of low quality vit e coq10 a generic multi.

also is vit d a good thing for peyronies sufferers. i dont drink or eat dairy should i take more vit d?

Jim, CoQ10 should be 100mg 3X/day.  Forget the stuff that is hyped for Peyronie's on the net.  I *doesn't* work other than to empty your pockets.  Vitamin D will not help your Peyronie's directly but is very good for your general health and thus helps over time indirectly.  The problem with Vitamin D is if you take over 2,000IU, you need to get your blood tested periodically to make sure you are not getting to much of it.  But 2,000IU should be pretty safe.  You need to use Vitamin D3 form in soft gel form.  Its dirt cheap and well worth the expense.

[jetedwardz]

thanx alot will do ill keep the d to a less amount then but will def supplement it in

[yeoch]

I'm new to this but everything I've been reading and learning is saying taking vitamin D as it adds to plaque / calcium - and take vitamins E (800-1600) and C (2,000-8,000) at a high level, and a B Complex - I've started taking "Acetyl L-Carnitine" (800-1200mg/day,) - and a low dose of Cialis extended. It's been six months since I noticed this start. With Peyronies Disease I know timing is so important...I'm trying to find a time-line / course of treatment thing...it's not "wait and see" like a Urologist told me.

What's the verdict on vitamin D ?

[fubar]

Brother

I'm not the authority on viatamin D. But I do know my doctor prescribed to me when I first became affected with this nasty disease. George can tell you why your levels of vitamin D are important.

Fubar

[Luciano]

Well regarding Vitamin D
There is a study going on in brazil saying that high dose vitamin D and testosterone (both in conjunction with infra-red therapy) could do some benefit.
But no results have been published yet.

http://www.controlled-trials.com/ISRCTN82950322

I personally think, people should have their vitamin D levels checked and try to get them higher if they are too low.
Luc

[George999]

I'm new to this but everything I've been reading and learning is saying taking vitamin D as it adds to plaque / calcium - and take vitamins E (800-1600) and C (2,000-8,000) at a high level, and a B Complex - I've started taking "Acetyl L-Carnitine" (800-1200mg/day,) - and a low dose of Cialis extended. It's been six months since I noticed this start. With Peyronies Disease I know timing is so important...I'm trying to find a time-line / course of treatment thing...it's not "wait and see" like a Urologist told me.

What's the verdict on vitamin D ?

Plaque is the result of inflammation.  Vitamin D *reduces* inflammation.  Calcification is from calcium being deposited in soft tissue.  Calcification results chiefly from lack of vitamin K, not from adequate amounts of vitamin D.  Too much vitamin D CAN cause soft tissue calcification.  That is why it is important to monitor blood levels with periodic blood tests.  - George

[dioporcolorisolvo]

One question:

fish oil= omega3 ?

Is the same thing or not?

I need antiinflammatory products.
I've bought Vit D3 e i'd like fish oil.

[jackp]

Yes omega3= fish oil.

My heart doctor has me on Lovaza (prescription fish oil) 1gm 4 a day. That is equal to 48 OTC a day. If it is good for the heart it is good for the penis.  

It not only helps my heart but has improved my difficult/delayed ejaculation.

Jackp

http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com/

[George999]

In reality the strength and purity of over the counter fish oil supplements vary widely.  The way strength is measured is in mg of DHA and mg of EPA contained in each capsule.  The numbers on the bottles are mg per SERVING, so don't be fooled.  Some brands claim high strength and then you read that there are five capsules per serving.  Purity also varies widely.  Fish oil is notorious for being a carrier of heavy metals, mercury and others.  Make sure that the fish oil you choose is properly processed to remove ALL heavy metal contamination AND that it is tested for chemical contamination to make sure it is free of PCBs and dioxins.  Krill oil has the advantage of posing far less risk from contamination.  But the bottom line is amount of DHA/EPA per pill.  - George

[crashbandit]

Yes omega3= fish oil.

My heart doctor has me on Lovaza (prescription fish oil) 1gm 4 a day. That is equal to 48 OTC a day. If it is good for the heart it is good for the penis.  

It not only helps my heart but has improved my difficult/delayed ejaculation.

Jackp

http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com/

I wonder if my doctor would give me a Px for this? I don't have high triglycerides or anything. What would I tell him I need it for? I have 100% drug coverage on Px so this would be better then paying for my fish oils from iherb plus it's alot more powerful.

Is the Lovaza free from metal contamination? Would Lovaza be far superior to my NAtural facotrs fish oils from iherb?

http://www.iherb.com/Natural-Factors-RxOmega-3-Factors-EPA-400-mg-DHA-200-mg-240-Softgels/4251?at=0

What's the DHA and EPA on Lovaza?

[jackp]

 My triglycerides are not high either. My doctor gave it to me to help with low good cholesterol.

I know of several that have asked there doctor for an prescription and the doctor had no problem giving it to them. Be up front and let the doctor know why you want to take it.

I don't have the answer to your question about EPA or DHA. You may be able to find it on the Lovaza web site.

I have talked to a couple of pharmacist I go to church with. They tell me that Lovaza is the purest form or omega-3. I take 2 (1GM) in the morning and evening. The pharmacist tells me that is equal to 48 OTC a day.

There are a couple of urological centers considering doing a study on Lovaza. One reason is that delayed/difficult ejaculation is a poorly studied.

Lovaza is not a cure all. It will be 6+ before you know if it will help you.  We may be onto something that will help a lot of men. It will not help if you are taking any antidepressant or medication that has a side effect of ED.

Jackp
http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com/

[George999]

Lovaza is simply fish oil on steroids.  It is, without doubt the best fish oil product out there with little risk of contamination since it is subject to full FDA supervision.  But you will also pay a premium price for this product.  IF you have insurance that will cover it, that won't be an issue of course and the prescription product might well cost you even less than the over the counter alternative.  But if not you may want to consider an over the counter alternative.  Some of them can come close, but, of course, they will never be able to match what a pharmaceutical company can achieve with their billions of investment capital.  - George

[George999]

AHA!  Here are the answers from the Lovaza site:

http://www.lovaza.com/frequently-asked-questions/index.html

1)  Its purified in an FDA approved five step process to remove all polutants.

2)  Each pill contains 465mg of EPA and 375mg of DHA

By comparison the over the counter fish oil product I use is molecularly distilled and each pill contains 350mg EPA and 250mg DHA.

- George

[R Igor]

George,

What is the brand of fish oil that you use.

Thanks.

Rob

[slowandsteady]

Astaxanthin seems to be a good supplement for the endothelium (PMID 20868751). Good blood vessel health should be a positive for Peyronies Disease. I've started taking it recently for mitochondrial health and to help with running since it helps with fatty acid oxidation (PMID 18082622).

Burning fat is good as you get less systemic inflammation that way. I've been trying to eat more strictly paleo lately to get reduce inflammation.

Astaxanthin might also suppress increases in transforming growth factor-beta (involved in Peyronies Disease) due to an inflammatory diet (I read about it in this astaxanthin overview "Potential health-promoting effects of astaxanthin: A high-value carotenoid mostly from microalgae", which referenced this study), in which mice were fed a diet high in fat and fructose. The abstract for this last study says: "Lipid deposition and increased TGF-β1 [transforming growth factor-beta] expression induced by [the high fat and fructose diet] were also abolished by [astaxanthin]".

I think that astaxanthin is looking pretty good for Peyronies Disease.

[George999]

Life Extension

[George999]

I am now taking astaxanthin on a regular basis.  It is just to good to pass on.  It has become one of my core supplements.  As is now the case with fish oil, you will soon see it as a prescription med.  It is *that* good.  - George

[crashbandit]

Hi George,

How did that Billberry work for you?

I've heard through the grapevine that astaxanthin should always be taken in the natural form and not the synthetic form. I heard the synthetic version of Astaxanthin is dangerous. Is this true? I'm taking the "NOW" astaxanthin 4mg veggie tabs and I'm pretty sure they are naturally cultivated from Hawaii.

Is the "NOW" brand of Astaxanthin 100% natural?

[nebula]

I've stopped taking Pentox as of today because after 8 months I've noticed no improvement whatsoever and don't feel it's worth continuing. After reading stuff about Astaxanthin on this site and others, it really seems too good to pass up. Even aside from its potential to help with Peyronie's, it has so many benefits. I've ordered the NOW brand, which is a brand I usually always have satisfactory results with when it comes to vitamins and supplements. My peyronie's "plan" will now consist of CoQ10, Astaxanthin, and a VED. I'll make sure to update after I've been taking the Astaxanthin for a while. All of the potential treatments that have been popping up on this site over the past year or so make me feel really hopeful.

[George999]

nebula,  Astaxanthin is a great supplement but keep in mind that any idea that it might help Peyronie's is speculative.  Pentox on the other hand is closer to a proven drug.  So I would be careful about dropping it too quickly.  It takes a long time to work and its benefits are subtle.  So if things start to go down hill for you, I would get back on it.  - George

crash,  I've really not noticed benefit from the bilberry although I am still taking it.  I probably won't be continuing it when the supply is up, only because there are only so many pills a person can take and there are so many potentially beneficial substances out there.  I too have heard warnings about synthetic astaxanthin and try to stay with the natural form.  I am pretty sure the Now product is the natural form.  I have taken it myself and haven't had any problems with it.  At this point I have switched to the Jarrow brand.  - George

[nebula]

George, I'm not expecting miracles with the Astaxanthin or for it to be a magic bullet. The potential to help with Peyronie's, even if only minor, is only one of its many benefits that appeal to me. The stuff is just good for you in so many ways. I'm taking it more for overall health and keeping in the back of my mind that it COULD help Peyronie's but has no guarantees. As for the Pentox, I know it's overall the most effective treatment for Peyronie's right now, but I don't feel like it's going to help me and my uro seems to agree. Pain has never been an issue for me and I have no noticeable plaque, so he was hesitant about prescribing it for me in the first place. I know for a lot of guys, resolving the pain alone is a reason to take it. The only thing its really seemed to do for me is increase my anxiety and worsen my existing digestive issues. Aside from that, I have some fungal issues I'm trying to take care of and I think I remember reading on here about how you did as well and had to stop the Pentox for a while due to it suppressing the immune system. All in all it just doesn't seem like it's worth continuing right now. Although if by some chance I do notice anything going downhill, I will be sure to get back on it.