Stem Cells & Adult stem cell injections for Peyronie's

[op]

That's a good share!

P.S. rellisacct I'm happy for Your improvements!

[rellisacct]

Thanks Op, we all have to just keep fighting. There are some amazing things that are going to happen in the next few years, I can feel it.

Nice article Koolx...another promising therapy for the future.  

[james1947]

rellisacct

Based on your results, you (and us) may be surprised in the future that your statement was too pessimistic

I do want to add that this is not a cure by any stretch of the imagination and things will never be close to where they were pre-injury

I think that having such improvement after 11 years with Peyronies is amazing
Thank you for sharing with us

James

[Knight]

It is refreshing to read about someone experiencing positive results! Congrats and thanks for sharing and spreading hope!

[MattFoley]

The medical community is screwing with us. They KNOW what stem cells and PRP can do for us. They have the proof. Both of these treatments can help a multitude of ailments but at this point it's expensive and the blood-sucking insurance companies don't want to cover it. Doctors make more money from treating your symptoms rather than the cause.

I need to make more money so I can rescue my penis from this hell.

[james1947]

Definitely on a surgery the doctors are making much more money!!!

James  

[yyy]

hey dudes

Good news by my side!

I had an ultrasound before any treatment from a "third part" and today I repeated it, after 1 stem cells and 2 prp.
The result is that I'm improved!! longitudinal thickness of the plaque passed from 10mm to 7mm, but the rest is unchanged as well as the bend, still present. My erections actually improved a little, as well as elasticity.

I will get my 2nd stem cell in one month or so, I think after 2 of them I will get a significant tangible improvement

stay tuned!

[lukewill]

YYY - do you mind me asking where are you getting treated?

best

luke

[yyy]

NOrth Italy, in a public hospital.

I prefer not to mention his name, I should ask him before.

If anyone is interested, I can ask him some details such as costs etc and I could organize some live consultations.

Im not sure but I think he does not speak English very well, in this case I will help him!

[rellisacct]

MattFoley - I completely understand your frustration with the powers that be. It's like I've poured gasoline on my savings and watched it burn. Obviously PRP and stem cell injections are having a positive effect, so it would lead one to believe that insurance companies would start looking into covering them. I mean wouldn't it make more sense for an insurance company to pay for $5,000 of injections and get better results than pay for a $30,000 surgery with possible impotence and even more expense down the road? No matter, in my opinion, having a quality sex life with a functioning penis is far more important than having money, whether I pay for it or the insurance company does.

One more thing...I am blessed to live an hour away from one of the only urologists to my knowledge that is doing this type of treatment in America. If I didn't live so close, there's no way that I could afford flying in and out for multiple treatments. I know this isn't a religion forum, but I personally believe that God has led me to where I'm currently at for multiple reasons, which are easier to see now then when I was at my very lowest points. If I had never had a glimpse of hell while on earth, then I probably wouldn't have the faith that I do now.

YYY - We are all encouraged to hear about your improvements. Keep the good news coming!

[james1947]

rellisacct

This forum is not a religious forum, but definitely not anti-religious also
For many of us, faith is what is keeping us going forward with this disease

James  

[stopthismadness]

Since there is more than one topic already open related to stem cells and tissue engineering, I'll post these here.
They are concerning Adipose Derived Stem Cells (ADSC) , Peyronies Disease, and improved erectile function. Dr. Tom Lue has also offered a response.
Basically, what I've gathered from reading is that they can potentially halt Peyronies Disease from progressing in an animal model.  More experiments are warranted to see if they can do anything about Peyronies Disease that has already progressed (which I believe most of us here can't wait to find out) It seems promising, and it's all worth the read to just be informed about where they're at. One step at a time.

Intratunical Injection of Human Adipose Tissuederived Stem Cells Prevents Fibrosis and Is Associated with Improved Erectile Function in a Rat Model of Peyronie's Disease - European Urology

Adipose-derived Stem Cells for the Treatment of Peyronie's Disease? - European Urology

Reply from Authors re: Ching-Shwun Lin, Tom F. Lue. Adipose-derived Stem Cells for the Treatment of Peyronie's Disease? Eur Urol 2013;63:5612 - European Urology

Scaffoldless tissue engineering of stem cell deriv... [J Sex Med. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

[MattFoley]

stopthismadness, thanks for posting that info.

The huge cost of stem cell treatment is my biggest concern since there's not really the best data on how it will treat Peyronie's. Until the cost comes down or I hit the lotto, I'm going to have to look towards PRP and HGH and things like IGF-1, PEG MGF, and TB4.

[koolx]

stopthismadness,

the problem with these studies is that it involves animal models. until we involve humans in a research model, theres no indication of whether or not they'll work in humans. just because animals respond well to stem cells doenst mean that humans will also. there are many drugs and therapies that work in a rat model but fail in a human.  

[MattFoley]

koolx, I think some people are experiencing success with stem cell treatment. The problem is that it's very expensive.

[stopthismadness]

I'm aware of all of that. Everyone seems to be misunderstanding my intentions of posting and repeating "the problem with this is." I know the "problems", I'm not posting to say "Hey look here is a miracle cure, this is going to work!" That's just not going to happen, I'm posting to share information for those that are interested. They aren't just going to start experimenting on humans before they do it on animals, it would be inhumane and unethical. My intent is to show that they did something Peyronie's related with stem cells, of course they are going to use animals first.  I think it's great news that someone even focused on our problem to begin with, even if it's with animals. I figured it was important enough to warrant a share on here. Very, very early experimental studies to gather information to possibly help combat this. Whether it works or not is up for further study, which I eagerly await to happen. Hopefully next time they do this experiment it's to see if they can attenuate already established Peyronie's Disease rather than preventing. If they do, and it works in rats, it would look like damn good news to me, fingers crossed and maybe something clinical will eventually happen. This is all experimental science. I don't condone anyone going out and getting stem cells injected into them at any of these unregulated clinics, they have no idea what they'll differentiate into. A woman recently had stem cells injected above the eye in a Beverly Hills clinic and it differentiated into bone. They literally removed bone splints that had grown from her eye. Nature isn't that simple, injecting stem cells with no instructions given to what they differentiate into is taking a shot in the dark. On top of that, I've read elsewhere in another experiment that when stem cells are injected intracavernously into the penis they don't even stay there, they rapidly escape, so they may not even differentiate into any healthy penile tissue. This is all future speculative science, and right now, in my mind, that's all we've got going with this disease at this point, to wait for something to spring up in the future.  

[MattFoley]

stopthismadness, I completely agree and understand where you're coming from on this issue.

This forum is titled, "Developmental Drugs & Treatments". This is a good place to discuss exactly what you're talking about. Stem cell, PRP, PEG MGF, IGF-1, etc. are drugs that fall into this category and are valid for discussion. Ignoring these drugs would do a disservice to what we're trying to do here: Heal from Peyronie's.



Now for my disclaimer:

Please do not inject chemicals into your penis unless you know what you're doing. I'm crazy enough to do it but I urge others to wait until more data is available before doing anything. If I'm able to succeed in my attempts and remodel scarring, angiogenesis, etc., I will be happy to share my results for an appropriate fee.  

[koolx]

MattFoley,

absolutely! there have been very good responses from stem cells relating to peyronies. but we're still not out of the woods yet. the ultimate goal is not just to freeze the advance of ED and peyronies in their tracks but actually reverse them completely.


stopthismadness,

i think the early animal studies show great promise. but my point is that just because animals respond well to treatment doesnt necessarily mean that humans will follow the same path. for example, stem cells have been able to repair damage in smooth muscle and nerve tissue in the corpus Cavernosum of the penis of rats stricken with ED. but in humans with ED, it just doesnt work as well; results are minimal at best as confirmed in a few studies. but i do agree with incredible certainty that ED and peyronies will be things of the past once we remove all or at least most of the kinks. unfortunately and realistically this realization will take time. the good thing is that we're getting there, especially when discoveries about stem cells are being made on a daily basis.  

[stopthismadness]

koolx, can you share these ED/stem cell studies done in actual humans? I can't seem to find any..

[koolx]

stopthismadness,

much of the human studies are actually patient-funded clinical trials that autologous stem cell clinics provide. theres one in california thats affiliated with a network of other stem cell clinics throughout the country offering this type of treatment for this condition as well as for others. theres another in florida (i think in miami but i dont remember) whose clinical trial for ED i believe ended a month ago.

the clinic located in california has been mentioned in this thread. the doctor of that clinic is dr. lander. i'll try to get the name of the other clinic in florida but u got to give me some time.

remember, when it comes to stem cells, these patient-funcded cllinical trials are rather expensive. and as rellisacct mentioned before, much of these undiluted therapies contain more stromal cells than actual stem cells. the FDA curently bans any SC clinic in the US from multiplying and administrering pure SCs in humans as i understand it.

looks like the FDA is protecting the pharmafia from draining its profits from autologous SC treatments which in many cases have saved lives and improved people's health in areas where conventional medicine has and continues to fail.

also, i think someone mentioned that SCs injected into the a target area within the penis will migrate to other parts of the body. this is ususually true. but, there currently is technology that uses an encapsulated mesh that keeps stem cells in place in a precise area of tissue for a longer period of time than would otherwise be the case in order to effect repair. theres a company that makes it specifically for SCs.  

[op]

I see no updates for a month. Decided to Google some, and found something new with PRP injection -Priapus Shot
here is several official websites:
http://www.eternamd.com/priapus-shot
http://priapusshot.com/
http://advancedlifeclinic.com/the-priapus-shot‎

What I've noticed it is only available in United States at the moment & if I'm not missing something it is brand new cure or whatever else in PRP medical terms. personally I'm from Europe... but it still points me to be interested at the moment, so decided to share over here. maybe someone else knows a bit more about it.  Priapus Shot is claiming as tissues regeneration injection in the natural way.

[BentYoung]

Op -

That medical video explanation is VERY interesting indeed. He literally explains exactly what a Peyronies sufferer needs: minimal inflammation, new blood vessels, additional blood flow and new collagen development. This is the patients own blood and plasma as well, so there is almost no chance of a bad reaction. Why does this sound way too good to be true?!! This is the video that you provided that I am referring to Vampire Facelift (R) and PRP Research Reviewed - YouTube

[op]

OK. So, I've done more research just yet.
The same reaction was for me too:"This is to good to be true"
The average price: 1800-1900$
Mostly the guys on internet talking and willing to gain length and girth, because it is called to make increase. (I do not need this, and wont hear about it anymore, that's how I made the damage for my self) and such facts quite pushing me off to believe that it is genuine information about the positive results from the injection.

The second part is, what make me to be interested: it claims to rejuvenate the penis, regenerate to more healthier, bring back firm, sensitiveness, pleasure. I do maybe believe it could be true, since I do remember a member over here reporting positive results from PRP.

p.s. as BentYoung mentioned Priapus shot not harmful and without risk for side effects. The results can be noticed after 3 weeks to 18 month

and I've found that a bit was already discussed over this forum about this priapus shot: https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php?topic=3885.0

This is very confusing for me. This is also called to be a cure for ED, but all these penis size increase blowing me off.

[damian]

The length is different between an erection of 90% and one of 100%. I noticed a difference in 2-3 cm. When the glans isn't engorged, you might notice a "loss" of a cm and more too. Some guys here are talking about severe length loss, but cannot achieve an erection of 100%. I'm sure that many of this guys who claim to have ED, are under psychological pressure so the develop ED, and therefore "lenght loss". I was like this too. I thought I lost 3.5 cm and was under huge pressure, but then I measured a 100% morning wood erection and noticed a loss of 1 cm or less. So, my conclusion is : better erection = bigger penis, better erection = less curvature.

This therapy might work, but I do not believe that you get a bigger penis from it.
If you are on therapy that is promising, placebo effect might do the work and you'll get better erections and therefore a bigger penis. Just my thought.  

[james1947]

the_Ushtipack

I agree with you in 100%.
I would like just to add that many ED sufferers have venous leakages (like me) and in this case the erection will never be 100% except with VED. This is the reason I am measuring the length while doing VED. I have lost 6.5 cm to Peyronies, got back 1.5 cm using VED, Pentox, low dose Cialis and Ubiquinol. Got back some girth also. But still the maximum erect length is 13 cm and girth 60% from the girth before Peyronies (checked during VED).

James  

[koolx]

op, this is mothing more than PRP. I called one of the clinics offering this priapus shot. and again, they tell me its just PRP. this is just a marketing name for PRP. Nothing new here.  

[Guztavo]

Guys, just wanted to let everyone know that i've been through the treatment in the California Stem Cell Center with DR Lander.

Dr Lander seems very nice and all of his staff seem very professional. I had to be there for 1 week and had liposuction, then the stem cells injected into my penis, and also shockwave therapy.

So far it's been only 1 week so zero results, but expect to get some feedback (wether it worked or not), by three months max.

You can send me private message here if you have any questions since i don't always check the forum.

Cheers

[james1947]

Guztavo

Thanks for the update, I hope you will not forget to update us at the 3 months milestone.  

James

[koolx]

hey gustavo,

hope everything works out.. think positive! and like the poster above me said, please keep us informed as to your progress. all the best to you..  

[rd]

Gustavo,

Your experience sound similar to mine but I only had to be there one day as he wasn't using the shockwave therapy at the time of my procedure. Was this only stem cells and shockwave therapy did he use any PRP/ Just curious as to the differences between what you had and I had.

[MattFoley]

op, this is mothing more than PRP. I called one of the clinics offering this priapus shot. and again, they tell me its just PRP. this is just a marketing name for PRP. Nothing new here.

koolx, did you ask the Priapus Shot doctors and the PRP shot doctors about the site injections? The doctors doing the Priapus Shots inject in the glan whereas the PRP doctors do not. There is some difference in the technique and that could mean the difference in the outcome.

[Guztavo]

@rd he did shockwave for a couple days before treatment, then they did lipo and stem cell injection on the same day. Since i happened to be staying in town for one more extra day he decided to give me an extra shockwave session a day after stem cell, but this last one was not planned.

I had the treatment november 20th, so far everything is the same as always, so no visible improvement, but it's been only 2 weeks so no conclusions until the three month mark, which is the timeframe he mentioned.

Will keep you updated.

@rd how long ago did you get the treatment and what was your final conclusion about it?

[rd]

I had it about two years ago. I had one big lump on the right side of my shaft that was always changing sometimes it felt like 2-3 separate peaces. When I had the treatment it felt like 2 lumps. At about the 2-3 month range one was gone the other still remaining. I did end up developing another lump on the left side of my shaft not a big one just a small one and also had the remaining lump on the right side. So I'm not sure what to think. One of the lumps on the right was gone after 2-3 months so it appears to have had some effect but I developed another on the opposite side which wasn't treated. My lumps always seem to be changing as well. Sometimes feeling as though they are on the verge of going away. I do have to say that since treatment my pains have faded to the point of pretty much being none existent. I think I have a very mild case as I have only had lumps that cause dents no shrinkage that I can tell or curving.  

[op]

op, this is mothing more than PRP. I called one of the clinics offering this priapus shot. and again, they tell me its just PRP. this is just a marketing name for PRP. Nothing new here.

Ok. thanks!

koolx, did you ask the Priapus Shot doctors and the PRP shot doctors about the site injections? The doctors doing the Priapus Shots inject in the glan whereas the PRP doctors do not. There is some difference in the technique and that could mean the difference in the outcome.

So, priapus Shot is not simple PRP. Thanks!

[jnbarizona]

Hello everyone. I want jump into this thread and contribute to the conversation. I previously introduced myself in the appropriate thread recently. I've had Peyronies Disease & ED for 11 months, as the result of an injury. No vitamins or medications have worked. At the end of my rope, I stumbled upon stem cell trials going on in CA, and I'm going forward with the procedure. Anyone who has been following this thread is familiar with Dr. Lander. I will be getting the week long treatment next week(shock wave Monday, Lipo + Stem Cells + shock on Wednesday, shock again on Friday). Luckily for me, it was only a 4 hour drive. I've already paid the money, almost all of my savings, so I guess you could say I'm all in. I plan on updating here about the process, as well as the results as they come. We need more testimonials from Peyronies Disease sufferers who've done the stem cell therapy, and I intend to one of them. I think this is the best hope we have at the moment.

One last note about medications(I'm not trying to switch topics, just thought this is worth sharing) to everyone out there who is using the Pentox... I asked Dr. Lander if I was wasting my money on it, his answer in print was a definitive 'yes'.  

[MattFoley]

op:

So, priapus Shot is not simple PRP. Thanks!

Exactly. There's a difference between not only injection site, but also technique, and the actual centrifuge used. And the Priapus Shot doctors also require that you use VED right after the injection and as part of a regular schedule. The PRP doctors do not.

[Guztavo]

jnbarizona

I had the treatment done 3 weeks ago. So far no improvement at all, but Dr Lander said it could take up to three months.

Good luck with your procedure and keep us posted!

Gustavo

[e2219e]

All,
I have been doing some amateur investigation on this topic over the course of the last several months as I sustained an injury that has lead to a greater curvature and erections that are more difficult to sustain.  Ironically, I came across an opportunity to become an independent rep with a company that sells a PRP device around the same time and, understanding a little about the possibilities in would healing, peyronie's came to mind immediately.  I actually sell a variety of medical devices, but the potential to solve my own condition is what got me involved.  
Since I haven't seen it anywhere on this post, I should mention there is a company called ................ that sells a biologic material used very successfully in peyronie's repair.  Go to ......................... to find the device.  I do not work for them, but know of some physicians who swear by it. The material is called ......................, and you should be able to search the site for Peyronie's, or contact their Urology division.  
PRP, in theory, delivers a high concentration of platelets, cells and growth factors that promote healing.  The ...................... material is a scaffold (another required part of healing) that also contains growth factors.  These growth factors call in cells required to repair damaged tissue.  Here is our issue - We need a treatment that will 1-  Break down the scarring that has occurred 2- deliver appropriate cells and growth factors to remodel healthy tissue (not scar) and 3- perhaps have a scaffold upon which the cells can organize.  I am not a scientist, but it seems to me the combination of all three would be ideal.  
The Priapus shot, or P-shot, is one of a few trademarked names for PRP injection procedures by the same doc that has the Vampire Lift.  I think it sounds promising, but am unaware of any serious data on the procedure.  Much of PRP use is theoretical, hence no medical coding or reimbursement, hence you pay cash.  I should say there is actually a code now for PRP in wound healing.  That is because this is were the best PRP data exists/  The reimbursement amount is $85.  This is new, and insignificant as a dollar amount, but at least it is being recognized as having real healing capability.  There are efforts to increase the reimbursement amount.
I have a lot more questions than answers.  I am going to be working on finding doctors interested in looking more closely, and scientifically, at PRP for Peyronie's.  I would be happy to try and find answers if you have questions.  This is a big issue, and I hope this forum can help lead to some solutions, or research.

Some changes has been made by moderator. It is your first post and it sounds like a marketing post. Hope it is not!!!

[Mentos]

E22 hope your really in our corner man and not just a rep. There is one person getting PRP soon on here I believe , hopefully we will learn a lot about it through him. And most importantly hopefully it does wonders for him!!

Please keep me up to date. I know mattfoley would be keen too.

Thanks and good luck with your search. Let me know of I can help.  

[e2219e]

Hey Mentos, I totally get the suspicion of reps.  That is why I wanted to be up front about it.  I am one, but have had far more success working toward improved patient outcomes than making another dollar.  And in this case, I have a personal stake in finding a solution to the problem.  I tried to stay away from opinions on anything, and will continue to do my best to talk science and evidence.  I am happy to direct you to any clinical evidence I know of if you have questions.  I cringe when I hear people putting faith in anything that is unproven out of, and I've felt it, desperation.  Still, someone needs to go first, and second, in order to find out if these new approaches have promise.  I wish those going for PRP treatment the best.  There is fantastic evidence for PRP in wound healing, just nothing in Peyronie's to date that I am aware of.  

[shrout]

Further progress in stem cell therapy...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25917270

Whether or not or how this might help treatments for Peyronie's in the future I'm not sure. But it's surely a positive development??  

[james1947]

An other one:
Stem cell breakthrough may be simple, fast, cheap - CNN.com

James

[shrout]

That's a report on the same study, James. Good to have a different take on it though.  

[james1947]

You are right shrout. Just from a different source.

James

[koolx]

shrout, stem cells are stem cells no matter what method is used to extract them from blood.  

[shrout]

Understood, koolx.

The 'breakthrough' here, if that's what it is, is in the innovative method they are using to obtain them, or in this case, create them. It has the potential to make the supply of stem cells cheaper faster and safer, which would surely make them more widely available for research into possible therapies for Peyronie's.

Are you saying that no progress has been made here?

[james1947]

You are right shrout, the new method is the point her as you say:

....supply of stem cells cheaper faster and safer

James

[rellisacct]

Hey All,

I know that it's been a long time since I last posted, and for that I apologize. I have been dealing with heavy depression lately due to another sexual trauma that I experienced 3-4 months ago due to penis not having enough rigidity.

This should be of interest to some folks on here. I have been working with a urologist/tissue engineer at Wake Forest and just went down to Mexico for a stem cell clinical trial. The first phase was liposuction of the abdomen to harvest adipose tissue (adipose derived stem cells), of which they received a lot of cells. So basically I'm getting a two for the price of one (sexier abs and stem cell injections, hard to beat that). I will be going back down in 6 weeks for injection after the doctors culture the cells into multiple lines and expand them. There is a special type of gel that the urologist will use to inject the stem cells into the corpora tissue, which he stated should keep the stem cells localized for a longer period of time and also this gel has increased growth factors. He has had some very good results from this procedure already, so I'm cautiously optimistic.  

This is significantly different than how stem cell injections are performed in the U.S. from what he tells me. I'll keep everyone updated as things progress. Additionally, if this doesn't work, then there is a strong possibility that in the near future he will be starting up a clinical trial for total corpora replacement (rabbit studies, but for humans). I'll give more information as things progress.  

[Mentos]

Ressilect

Very interesting to hear about. I live in Cali and would be interested in taking part in this if possible. can you give me/us more info.. PS your inbox is full or else I would have msgd you.

THANKS AND GOOD LUCK!

[rellisacct]

Oops, I just deleted some old messages. Yes, PM me and I'll tell you more about it. I will say that it is VERY expensive. I've spent a chunk of savings on the procedure so far.