GENERAL COMMENTS & Questions - that won't fit under any of our other topics

[gibson101]

Bob

Im in the same boat as u my friend..im young and very intimate guy still with a long distance girlfreind who is being very understanding at the moment. All I can say is get ur head right while we trying to find a way to fight this..Lord knows sometimes I am completly overwhelmed by all that has happened to me but the mind is the most powerful tool availabke and any healing is not going to take place with a mind that is depressed/anxious....FACT.....im battling it just like u and hoping for a miricle...keep me posted as i will keep u posted.....take medication and keep experimenting..I honeslty belive that nothing will make it worse other than more trauma to the penis.

Best of wishes and I PROMISE IM FOR REAL AND HERE TO HELP so keep me posted

hopeful gibson

[litningwlf]

Thanks for the advice. Dr. Lue actually only suggested taking the pentox. I asked about l-arginine and he shook it off. Never gave me a script for cialis or viagra either.

I think the reasons why the normal healing hasn't taken place here is because while I am only 26, I have an abundance of health problems including interstitial cystitis (an inflammatory bladder condition) and it keeps me from getting a good night sleep. I find it interesting that the more I post and read online, the more young people I see with similar issues to mine. I'd love to know the concrete solution and then dispense that info to everyone.

I also think the fact that my erection was harder than it had ever been before because of the injection prior to the ultrasound and the fact that it pretty much bent sharply in a couple of places didn't help matters. While the pain was not "excruciating" and my penis didn't swell up like an orange, the erection faded right away. That sounds like a penile fracture or at least a microfracture from everything I've read. Also, I was having impotency problems the week prior to the ultrasound, so that couldn't have helped.

I bring this up because in may 2006, I bent my erection sharply in my pants and lost it pretty quickly and was impotent for like a day. But I took a small dose of cialis (which I got from a doc because of a slight curvature) and everything bounced back. I lost length and girth and developed more curvature, but the erections and the tissue were all normal. I had rigid morning erections and the tissue was stretchy in the flaccid state.

If I woke up tomorrow morning with a rigid erection, and once it subsided I could stretch the tissue in the flaccid state, I would scream, "Thank the lawd!!," never go back to a urologist and be overly careful each and every time I had an erection with or without sexual activity.

For some reason now, cialis only gives me a rigid erection with a lot of stimulation. In that previous situation in may, I took the small dose of it at night and woke up with a raging hard-on in the morning.

I think this was one injury too many. Now the question is, will I have to be on medication for years to get a rigid erection or will I eventually get back to normal? My most recent blood flow ultrasound results indicated things are pretty bad, so hopefully the pentox can permanently improve those. Is that possible? Is that what some of you mean by heal? I hope so.

For the love of God, hopefully I start showing signs of steady improvement like Dr. Lue felt I would, b/c I want to stop thinking about this 24/7. As much as I'm upset over the loss of size, which I know isn't coming back, or the months of turmoil, I'd get over those in a heartbeat for a fully functional, non-shrinking penis right now.

Hope I'm continuing a helpful discussion of this condition which is afflicting more than just myself. If not, then thanks for letting me use this forum to seek opinions and get stuff off my chest.

[Tim468]

I could try to encourage you at length, but I believe that George's post has EVERY single bit of important and relevant information that you need to heal as completely as possible. I see no point in reiterating it.

One of the hardest things for us all to do is to live with the "What if's" in life. Oftenwe put a great deal of energy into anxiously worrying about what if, only for it to not turn out the way we thought it would. All that energy spent worrying!

Right now, it's funny how life turns. My daughter (a teenager) is battling depression, and I am sitting here catastrophizing like crazy. I have her living on the streets in 3 years, in my mind. I am VERY anxious about it - in fact, I can share with you that the pain of this worry is greater than that I had at the onset of Peyronie's, which hit me when I was 21 years old. So do what I say - not what I do!

Really, though, experience has taught me the futility of thinking this way. I am trying this morning to come up with a gratitude list. Today, I have to try to come up with things my daughter did yesterday that helped her (because she did some things that did not help her, and I am pretty angry about those choices). Similarly, you might be able to comprehend how it could have gone - you could have decided that you were fine (based on your injectable erection, and not injuring yourself in the clinic) and gone out clubbing, ended up having rough sex, and injuring yourself worse.

IOW, there are MANY ways that life can turn out. The way your life is right now is not the worst that it can be - but it is a challenge.
It might help to:
1) simply accept that it is not the way you want it to be right now,
2) accept that you have a plan of action that might (in fact, probably will) help you get better,
3) attempt to make up a list of gratitudes about your life every morning,
4) try to journal in the morning before you have done virtually ANYTHING ELSE by writing three pages at least in a journal (we call this the "morning pages",
5) set aside some time each morning to meditate (5-20 minutes) to calm you mind and to prepare for the day,
6) REREAD George's post regarding diet and EXERCISE - even a walk on a daily basis will promote healing and less mental pain,
7) If it works for you in your heart, pray for God's will to be done in your life, and for it to be revealed to you what this is happening for. I say it like that because I do not think of God as being a pinch hitter who comes in to bat when we are tired and to save the game! I am not religious, but my belief that there is some guiding force to the universe has helped me at times,

Finally, come here and rant all you want. You are articulate and in pain - I expect to hear more from you, and that is OK. One thing we can offer when the medical stuff is not helping for sure yet is to offer support for how it feels. None of us ARE YOU, but we have suffered in similar ways, and if you recall how we are all similar, it will help you do better as you walk down the road that you are already on.

Tim

ps - for all the anxiety I have had about my erectile quality, new "dents", progressive disease and so forth, I note that last night love making happened without cialis or viagra with great erectile quality, and the path I am on finally seems to be helping me get better. So hang in there - it may take a while but it can change.

[litningwlf]

Guys, thanks again for the encouragement. Tim, I wish you, your daughter and the rest of your family the best. I wish I had a support system like that; it would make this problem exponentially easier.

My whole thing is cause and effect. I'm likely going to see a psychiatrist tomorrow to help me calm down with this. The medicines he'll give me will aim to treat the anxiety/depression. For some people who see psychiatrists, the "problem" is the anxiety or depression. For me, that's just a byproduct of the real "problem," which is this physical condition.

I understand your point on "what if's." I've heard it from pretty much all my friends. But it's extremely tough to know that a two-minute period in my life has changed things so much. It's not like I contracted a disease which was out of my control. I got up from that ultrasound with an extremely rigid erection, which meant I was OK. The next few minutes, where I believe the doctor was negligent and where my brain apparently shut off, ruined that.

Bottom line is, I want the progression to stop. If the past is past and I can't go back and turn my brain on and adjust my erection before hopping on the doctor's table at his orders, then I at least want to stop losing size. That is my No. 1 goal right now. The erection stuff can go on a backburner because I don't have a girlfriend now, but I've read from some young guys that they ended up with half their original size after the doctors told them they couldn't find anything on the scan.

But here's the problem, which I've mentioned before: I can't physically tolerate the pentox. There's no proof the pentox will bring the tissue back to normal and stop the progression, but at least there's a chance it will. I'm having a difficult enough time eating at the moment, so I have no idea how to stomach the pill. Mild side effects are one thing, but throwing up all the time is another.

I feel I am nearing a crossroads: either I'm going to go completely nuts, lose my job, my friends and more of my penis, or somehow I figure out a way -- which I can tolerate -- to stop the progression of whatever I have and start living again and have my friends actually want to pick up the phone when they see my number on the caller ID.

BTW, Tim, being married, I was curious what your take and also anyone else's take is on this: If this continues to progress and prevents me from ever having sex, do you believe that most women would be OK with just receiving oral sex? In other words, would a young woman in today's day and age of Sex and the City and crap like that be willing to date and possibly marry a guy if she knew they couldn't have intercourse?

I know my fear and anxiety produce a question like that, but my current symptoms and the lack of answers from the doctors make me start to wonder.

[Liam]

From three diffeent posts:

Here's the thing: I had curvature before this problem started. I had some sort of plaque, and I believe somehow it was blocking normal oxygenated blood to the head, which caused that to shrink. I tried a bunch of doctors, a bunch of herbal supplements, but for some reason, I had read that arginine was bad for you, so I didn't take that. Instead, I took something called gotu kola, which one day after ejaculation made the penis firm in the flaccid state. Then I had a diagnostic injection, which started to cause some impotence. I still had rigid morning erections. But then the main thing was a significant bend in the doctor's office which I described earlier and am having an impossible time getting over.[/


But it's extremely tough to know that a two-minute period in my life has changed things so much. It's not like I contracted a disease which was out of my control. I got up from that ultrasound with an extremely rigid erection, which meant I was OK. The next few minutes, where I believe the doctor was negligent and where my brain apparently shut off, ruined that.

......Also, I was having impotency problems the week prior to the ultrasound, so that couldn't have helped.


Before the injection, you were having a penis/erection problem that sent you to the doctor.  Why are you blaming the doctor?  The symptoms you are describing now seem to be, if anything, a continuation of the problem which made you seek help in the first place.  What about the IC you have?  Both take place in that "special area"...more or less.  Check this article:

MALE INTERSTITIAL CYSTITIS—TIME FOR A CHANGE?

Jordan D Dimitrakov*, Plovdiv, Bulgaria; Dorian Y Dikov, Lagny-sur-Marne Cedex, France

Do men with nonbacterial prostatitis and prostatodynia really have IC instead? Some researchers think so. Previous studies using cystoscopy with hydrodistention have shown that up to 70% of these men have bladder abnormalities that meet the NIH-NIDDK criteria for IC. In addition, the symptoms of both conditions are similar, including irritative voiding symptoms, pain, sexual dysfunction, and accompanying depression and anxiety. These investigators set out to test for IC in men with confirmed chronic pelvic pain. The men were given a complete battery of tests, including cystoscopy with hydrodistention, the potassium sensitivity test, and levels of potential markers in prostatic secretions and urine. Those markers included nerve growth factor (NGF), tryptase, heparin-binding epidermal growth factor-like growth factor (HB-EGF), and epidermal growth factor (EGF).

Of the 300 patients, 240 (80%) showed the characteristic glomerulations on cystoscopy with hydrodistention, which confirmed a diagnosis of IC.  All patients with IC had some degree of erectile dysfunction and burning or pain during and/or after ejaculation. The levels of NGF and tryptase were significantly elevated in the IC patients compared with healthy controls, and the HB-EGF levels were significantly lower in IC patients than in healthy controls. These investigators think that NGF, HB-EGF, and tryptase are promising new markers for evaluating these men and that any young man who has burning and/or pain after ejaculation should be evaluated for IC.

http://www.ichelp.org/research/2003AUAAnnualMeetingAbstracts.html

:::::DING DING DING::::::

Worth checking out anyway.

[Steve]

Hawk,

Might I suggest that Dr Tim's reply (or excerpts from it) be included in the 'just diagnosed' listing?  It seems to be an extremely useful outlook on life that more of us should embrace.

Also, Liam seems to have done a great job of medical detective work--I guess he's been paying a LOT of attention to House!

[Hawk]

Steve,

In brief, I am somewhat out of commission for the moment.  In addition to some other issues, I have been diagnosed with a herniated disc and sciatica.  It is accompanied with numbness and some significant leg weakness. I have been on narcotic pain killers for 11 days.  Unfortunately, they only knock the edge off of the pain.  I have to wait until the end o the month for a neurologist visit.  I am starting physical therapy tomorrow.  I have considered a chiropractor.

Also, Angus has served diligently as the moderator of the "Newly Diagnosed" area.  In fact that area only exists because of his tireless efforts.  I prefer to let him handle such requests and manage that area.  I actually thought that post would have also been good for the "psychological " topic but I am so distracted it hurts to think about it at the moment.

Regards

[litningwlf]

Liam,

I was only having erectile problems the week before the doctor's appointment, which followed a weird series of events with a supplement and a diagnostic injection. I was extremely potent before then, as evidenced by my great blood flow results.

But I had an ultrasound a month and a half after the injury and they needed to use four times the injection just to get half the results. Even with the interstitial cystitis, for as long as I can remember I had woken up with rigid erections every morning. I have not done that once since my injury.

See, that's one of the worst things about this. If you have erection problems, doctors can point to a million different things that it could be, but come on: I all of a sudden can't get it up, am losing size and my penis is firm in the flaccid state, and this all happened after the injury. That's not a coincidence.

[Steve]

Ouch!  I'm sure that I speak for all in saying that you're in our thoughts and Prayers.

[tdsc]

I don't believe it's possible to lose that much size.  It may be that they are not viewing the penis when it is erect or something.  If you are worried about progression, then I wouldn't definitely cease all sexual relations until it stabilizes.

[Angus]

Hawk,

Might I suggest that Dr Tim's reply (or excerpts from it) be included in the 'just diagnosed' listing?....

  This, and some other updates, are done. Updates are in progress in the Newly Diagnosed section. The posts are in chronological order... scroll to the bottom of each topic to check for updates as they will be at the bottom of the post.

[Liam]

You let a doctor stick a needle in your "pee pee".  I would say you were having significant problems prior to the injection.  You might contend the injection worsened an already present problem.  I just don't understand how you can cite it as the cause.

Also, how can you say it was the Gotu Kola that, all of a sudden, made your penis firm in the flaccid state?  I have never read about this side effect in any of the literature.  I doubt you would be the only person who would have had this reaction.

I all of a sudden can't get it up, am losing size and my penis is firm in the flaccid state, and this all happened after the injury. That's not a coincidence.

Erection problem right before the injection, erection problem right after the injection.  Do you understand the problem in blaming the injection?

How possible do you think it is the symptoms would have appeared even if you had done nothing?  No supplements, no injections.....nothing.  Consider that.  List the symptoms in the order they appeared: plaque, curve, pain, shrinkage, ED, unusual firmness.  It sounds progressive the way you described it.  The supplement and shot seem VERY coincidental.

I only say this so you can see from an objective eye.

Good luck!

Liam

[litningwlf]

Just to reiterate what I said in a private response to Liam, the injection wasn't what caused the problem. It was the severe bend of the erection following it. Explaining the situation again, I once again revert to beating myself up for allowing all of this to happen. I keep replaying that day in my head over and over again.

I should've been more careful. I should've waited out the problem instead of going for another injection. I was mismanaged by my doctors and by myself.

[howcanthisbe]

what causes a bend to the left? I always read plaque on the top causes a bend up etc. I was noticing today when my erection was dying my penis starting bending towards the left a litte. When I have a hard erection it doesnt bend any to the left. I do have a half "invisible rubberband effect" on the left side. I know this is what is causing the left bend when my erection is dying. So I was wondering can that cause a left bend eventually even when im erect? Im just confused or will it just cause loss of size in that area? Basically im hoping it will not cause a bend to develop. In some ways I see it would but in other ways I see it wouldnt. So basically im wondering if the invisible rubberband effect can cause one to bend left or right? I just thought the hinge effect didnt produce a curve. Am I wrong on this?

[rcrj]

Hello,
I have had a classic tunica tear and indentation with mild curvature but persistent inflammation, collagen production and size loss since 2003.  Has anyone experienced significant healing or long-term stabilization by avoiding any sexual activity or use of the penis whatsoever for long periods of time?  If so, how did it benefit you or not?

Robert

[Liam]

The hinge effect is a symptom not a cause.  The same thing causing the bend is causing the hinge and the invisible rubberband (I, personally, have invisible pipe insulation).

what causes a bend to the left?

manual dextrality

manual sinistrality causes a bend to the right.

[PainIsGrowth]

Hey rcrj,
I definitely think a long period of inactivity could be beneficial if you are still getting decent nocturnal erections.  You said you are still getting inflammation after several years, so you must be doing some kind of trauma or else it should have stabilized already.  What is the longest period you have refrained from any type of sexual activity since the tunica tear (did you consider this a penile fracture at the time, and where u treated in a hospital)?  If anyone else has any insight on long term abstinence and healing experience, I would be interested to know myself.    

[Tim468]

I got Peyronie's when I was 21 or so. Although I initially started to become more sexually active out of desperation (I was afraid it was going to get worse and I would lose my ability to have sex at all), I later came to believe that by using my penis on a regular basis (but not violently), I allowed it to not contract up too much.

I do think that the contractile component of Peyronies favors a gradual worsening. I now see that use of the VED regularly is serving the same purpose that regular sexual activity did - but without the trauma I might have incurred occasionally.

Gentle intercourse might be a better thing than none at all - but as long as one gets daily erections I think that the progressive nature of the disease might be slowed this way.

This is not "scientific" - this is simply the result of my dealing with this disease for many years. It could well be that I could have chosen to eat five turnips every morning for all these years and would be in exactly the same place - and would be crediting the turnips. So I see that how I am could simply be the way it is, and not the result of anything I "did".

Tim

[howcanthisbe]

so are you saying the hinge effect can make a bend to the left also?

[Liam]

Plaque causes the hinge.  Plaque causes the curve.  Plaque is the demon.  Bad plaque  The hinge can't cause the curve and the curve can't cause the hinge.  The invisible half rubber band is out of the question.  If it were a whole rubber band........no.......thats a whole different post.


On the other topic, I agree with Tim that "using it" keeps it from shrinking.  My doc says keep it stretched out .  I agree that the VED is less likely to cause trauma.  This is based on personal opinion not scientific evidence.

Tim has been doing a great deal of nail head hitting.  

[howcanthisbe]

thanks Liam but im confused. I have the invisible half rubberband effect. I mean maybe its a hinge or hourglass effect? Its a area that looks like a shoelace is going around my penis halfway. Like the area is missing so to speak, it doesnt fill up like the rest of the erection. So would this be a hinge/rubberband/or hourglass effect?

[Old Man]

HCTB:

In my case, the rubber band effect was on both sides of the shaft, just at different times in my history. I had no hinge effect, just the curve to the right and down one time and a curve to the left at other times.

My uro told me that the indentation(s) were caused by the tunica plaque that would not let the blood flow to that spot, etc. Some guys have the hinge effect (causes the shaft to bend easily or sort of flop around) and some do not. IOW, each case of Peyronies Disease is totally different from each other.

My experience has taught me that the VED seems to do the most for my Peyronies Disease symptoms. So, I would suggest that if you have not thought about this route, that you consider getting into it.

Regards, Old Man

[howcanthisbe]

thanks alot oldman, I guess like you said every case is different. If I notice any kind of slight curve to the left then im getting into the VED use for sure before it gets worse. I just do not want to risk anything right now because if I stay the way I am right now I would be ok with it. I know I keep saying im gonna use the VED and I will if I see any type of curve pop up. Ive really been looking things up today and see alot of guys get a curve with a dent while others do not, peyronies is so strange and I guess thats why nobody can figure out how to cure it.

[kenno]

Thanks for the welcome and thanks for the suggestions.  I'm not even considering surgery now.  Right now here is what I am doing:

Neprinol - 3 pills, 3 times per day
L'Arginine - 2 pills 2 times per day
Fish Oil - 1 per day
Vitamin E - 800 mg (two pills) per day
Ginsent - 1 per day

I do feel that circulation is greater than before.  I think it is way too soon to expect a significant change yet since I have only done this for one month.  This condition took longer than that, so I expect the reversal would take a while too.

I am interested in anything that others are doing that actually worked.  I will read more of the forum and see if I see something that may work.  I know I read about some French doctor doing a pin prick to the plaque but I cannot find it now.  I can't get the magical combination of words for a search.  Does anyone else remember that topic and what became of it?

Thanks!

[Hawk]

Kenno,

The paper you are looking for is under the area of the forum labeled "Resource Library" .  It is not amoung the topics here on the main discussion board.

[tdsc]

I had a small tear near the head.  Injury was 10 months ago.   I went 3 to 4 months between activity.  There was virtually no progression and actually a loosening up recently, which made me think it would be rather safe for sexual activity, and it was basically.  However, there was some slight shrinkage and progression although I used a very light style of masturbation, and I will probably continue the abstinence for some time.  However after the couple of times of masturbation, the pain virtually disappeared just in general.  However, it was apparant that there was redness and inflammation and shrinkage after each masturbation, although it wasn't alarming in shrinkage like before where there was slight length loss several months back.

[Liam]

Good info in a humerous format.  Well Done.  Worth a look!

http://www.vasectomy-information.com/humor/manual.htm



Liam

[penguin]

Greetings from UK..

I have had this condition for about 6 months and am based in UK.. Is there anyone out there also UK based who can recommend good people to see?.. My local NHS doc & locum are really not much help.. As far as I can see most folk signed up to this forum are USA based, but there must be a few UK folk who've found their way here..

All comments & ideas welcome

[Liam]

I created a topic in the Off Topic Discussion Area (another oxymoron) to assists the European Community in finding each other.  Hope it helps.

Liam

PS by Hawk: We do have quite a few members from the UK but it is difficult to keep up with locations unless members complete their profile.

[penguin]

Thanks Liam,

Never thought to look there for some reason.. Maybe we could have a topic area called "EU Members?"

Cheers, Penguin

[Hawk]

Penguin, we have such a topic.  That is what Liam just created for you.  I would also recommend doing a word search on EU, Europe, and specific countries.  You will find many posts by members stating that is where they are from.

[penguin]

Hawk,

Found it thanks.. and thanks to Liam too of course..

Penguin

[meanmrmustard]

as someone who suffers repeated "inflammation-attacks" and often cold scrotum, I'd like to know what you think of applying heat to the penis and scrotum. also, what's the best way to do this? i thought of some kind of heatable-blanket, as logically something soft, that adjusts to the "package", is requiered. what do you think?

[Rico]

meanmrmustard,

Heat wouldn't hurt you, but if you increase the circulation in this area it will help.... pentox does this and so does ginkgo..... also they curtail inflammation... exercise also is good, doing core workouts or working the thighs will bring blow flow into the groin area..... arginine also is something you might want to look at if you aren't using this yet.... hope this helps...

Rico

[Liam]

Heat on the testes is bad on sperm count (if thats a bad thing for you).

Look up heat therapy under "alternative treatments" in this forum.  There has been some research in this area.  Most of the posts refer to IR as a heat source.

Liam

[Tim468]

Heat can be most easily applied in a warm bathtub. It is true that this will lead to reduced sperm counts, which may not recover well if done over a long period of time. If one is "drawing uptight", it may be due to stress and that is mediated via alpha adrenergic nerve pathways. That may be best handled by using Korean Red Ginseng, which works to block such pathways (blocking that may lead to better erections too - though Viagra has eclipsed alpha adrenergic blockers as an erectile dysfunction treatment). Another such treatment used here is Trazodone. Also, relaxation and meditation can improve "hang" by reducing adrenergic tone, as can a program of daily exercise.

Finally, once again Pentox has been mentioned as if it's functionality in treating Peyronie's Disease is due to "increased circulation". That is not how Pentox works, and that effect is not even demonstrated at all, in any way. The effect of Pentox on TGF is proven, and is the putative mechanism for its' effect on Peyronies Disease.

Tim

[Rico]

Pentox was developed to increase circulation.... pentox wasn't invented to cure peyronies.... they where trying to get flood flow to the area, and it was shown to stop inflammation... which in meanmrmustard case would take care of both his problems.... maybe ginkgo would too.... or cilias..... I think all of these would be better than a hot bath.... but if hot baths where the choice then I would go with a Epsom salt bath a couple of times a week.... dmso or the thacker also improves blood flow, or did for me, the cream works well..... pentox makes your blood cells smaller so they can get to the smaller vessels in ones legs and hands ect.... helps with circulation.... yes the tgf is proven and is the mechanism for the curtail of inflammation....

Think of how a old injury feels stiff and cold and works better when warm up or the blood flow is increase to the area..... what you have in a damage tunica is scar tissue..... stiff and cold.... this is where the ved can also help.... exercising it and remolding the tissue also....  

Rico

[meanmrmustard]

thanks everyone, I'm already taking pentox, have to stop from time to time though cause it F~@ks up my stomach   also, i'm a lot less worried about my sperms than about my impotence. guess I'll keep working out, also I've been eyeing with a VED for some time now ...

[meanmrmustard]

taking pentox and l-arginine, the amount of blood flowing through my testicles has increased. that used to also increase bloodflow in the penis, leading to a fuller hang, but lately, the blood remains in the testicles without transferring to the penis -> full testicles, but still poor bloodflow in the penis. does anyone have an explanation for this?

(i'm suffering severe and worsening ED without diagnosis - docs tested and tested and found no explanation. the only thing they could tell me was that a lot of blood enters, but doesn't stay in my penis. they offered no explanation for that)

[Liam]

Source:  http://health.yahoo.com/topic/men/symptoms/medicaltest/healthwise/popup/tp10814




Blood Supply

The blood supply of the penis comes from a main blood vessel that goes down the back of the body called the aorta. The aorta then branches to an internal and external iliac artery, and finally a pudendal artery passes underneath the pelvic bone and terminates in the common penile artery. When sitting and especially when riding a bicycle, a man can cut off blood circulation to this common penile artery. When this artery is damaged, arterial insufficiency and subsequent erectile dysfunction occur. A cavernosal artery supplies blood into each of the erectile bodies of the penis.

The blood supply to the glans, or head, of the penis is part of a separate system. It is for this reason that men can achieve an erection without swollen glans, such as in conditions known as priapism. This is also true for men who have penile implants; the glans or head of the penis will not become enlarged.

The underlying mechanism of an erection is the corporo-veno-occlusive mechanism. When the veins cannot become compressed or blocked, an erection cannot be maintained. Without this very sensitive mechanism, blood leaks prematurely from the penis and produces the loss of an erection. This type of erectile dysfunction is called a venous leak.

Source:     http://www.webmd.com/content/article/7/1680_50125

I'm sure everyone knows blood does not literally transfer from testicles to the penis.  MMM, I knew what you meant.  I thought it might be good to post something about bloodflow and anatomy.

A great link with anatomical drawings:

http://www.med.umn.edu/anatomy/6150/CD/Lecture%20Handouts%20HTML/2004%2017%20perineum.htm

[meanmrmustard]

thanks liam.

[Liam]

Found this.  I had never noticed it.  Interesing!  Van Buren's disease  :::whistling:::  
As always this is FYI.  It is not an endorsement.

PEYRONIE'S DISEASE
A Bibliography, Medical Dictionary,
and
Annotated Research Guide to Internet References

(chronic cavernositis; curvature of the penis; fibrous cavernositis; fibrous plaques of the penis; fibrous sclerosis of the penis; penile fibromatosis; penile fibrosis; penile induration; van Buren's disease)

Pages  :  128
Price  :  $28.95(USD)
ISBN  :  0597845158
Published  :  2004
 
    Synopsis
 
In March 2001, the National Institutes of Health issued the following warning: "The number of Web sites offering health-related resources grows every day. Many sites provide valuable information, while others may have information that is unreliable or misleading." Furthermore, because of the rapid increase in Internet-based information, many hours can be wasted searching, selecting, and printing. Since only the smallest fraction of information dealing with Peyronie's disease is indexed in search engines, such as www.google.com or others, a non-systematic approach to Internet research can be not only time consuming, but also incomplete. This book was created for medical professionals, students, and members of the general public who want to conduct medical research using the most advanced tools available and spending the least amount of time doing so.

    Related Conditions/Synonyms
 
chronic cavernositis; curvature of the penis; fibrous cavernositis; fibrous plaques of the penis; fibrous sclerosis of the penis; penile fibromatosis; penile fibrosis; penile induration; van Buren's disease

    Description
 
This is a 3-in-1 reference book. It gives a complete medical dictionary covering hundreds of terms and expressions relating to Peyronie's disease. It also gives extensive lists of bibliographic citations. Finally, it provides information to users on how to update their knowledge using various Internet resources. The book is designed for physicians, medical students preparing for Board examinations, medical researchers, and patients who want to become familiar with research dedicated to Peyronie's disease. If your time is valuable, this book is for you. First, you will not waste time searching the Internet while missing a lot of relevant information. Second, the book also saves you time indexing and defining entries. Finally, you will not waste time and money printing hundreds of web pages.

 
 Table of Contents
 
Forward

Chapter 1. Studies on Peyronie's Disease

Overview

The Combined Health Information Database

Federally Funded Research on Peyronie's Disease

The National Library of Medicine: PubMed

Chapter 2. Nutrition and Peyronie's Disease

Overview

Finding Nutrition Studies on Peyronie's Disease

Federal Resources on Nutrition

Additional Web Resources

Chapter 3. Dissertations on Peyronie's Disease

Overview

Dissertations on Peyronie's Disease

Keeping Current

Chapter 4. Books on Peyronie's Disease

Overview

Book Summaries: Federal Agencies

Chapters on Peyronie's Disease

Chapter 5. Multimedia on Peyronie's Disease

Overview

Video Recordings

Chapter 6. Periodicals and News on Peyronie's Disease

Overview

News Services and Press Releases

Newsletter Articles

Academic Periodicals covering Peyronie's Disease

Chapter 7. Researching Medications

Overview

U.S. Pharmacopeia

Commercial Databases

Researching Orphan Drugs

Appendix A. Physician Resources

Overview

NIH Guidelines

NIH Databases

Other Commercial Databases

Appendix B. Patient Resources
Overview

Patient Guideline Sources

Finding Associations

Appendix C. Finding Medical Libraries

Overview

Preparation

Finding a Local Medical Library

Medical Libraries in the U.S. and Canada

ONLINE GLOSSARIES

Online Dictionary Directories

PEYRONIE'S DISEASE DICTIONARY

INDEX
 
  Excerpt (Introduction)
 
In addition to offering a structured and comprehensive bibliography, this medical reference on Peyronie's disease will quickly direct you to resources and reliable information on the Internet, from the essentials to the most advanced areas of research. Public, academic, government, and peer-reviewed research studies are emphasized. Various abstracts are reproduced to give you some of the latest official information available to date. Abundant guidance is given on how to obtain free-of-charge primary research results via the Internet. E-book and electronic versions of this book are fully interactive with the Internet. For readers unfamiliar with the Internet, detailed instructions are offered on how to access electronic resources. For readers unfamiliar with medical terminology, a comprehensive glossary is provided. For readers without access to Internet resources, a directory of medical libraries, that have or can locate references cited here, is given. We hope these resources will prove useful to the widest possible audience seeking information on Peyronie's disease.

http://www.icongrouponline.com/health/Peyronie's_Disease_Ph.html

[Tim468]

Here is what they said about Paget's Disease of the nipple - yup, they got a book on that and everything else. IOW, they have books available on *everything*. I doubt they have books at all - instead they probably scour the web for links when a request comes for a book and they then dash off some cheap piece of crap and call it "the latest update".

Weird.

*********************************
PAGET'S DISEASE OF THE BREAST
A Bibliography, Medical Dictionary,
and
Annotated Research Guide to Internet References

(malignant neoplasm of breast and areola; mammary Paget's disease; Paget's disease of the nipple)

Pages    :    60
Price    :    $28.95(USD)
ISBN    :    0497008262
Published    :    2004


     Synopsis

In March 2001, the National Institutes of Health issued the following warning: "The number of Web sites offering health-related resources grows every day. Many sites provide valuable information, while others may have information that is unreliable or misleading." Furthermore, because of the rapid increase in Internet-based information, many hours can be wasted searching, selecting, and printing. Since only the smallest fraction of information dealing with Paget's disease of the breast is indexed in search engines, such as www.google.com or others, a non-systematic approach to Internet research can be not only time consuming, but also incomplete. This book was created for medical professionals, students, and members of the general public who want to conduct medical research using the most advanced tools available and spending the least amount of time doing so.

     Related Conditions/Synonyms

malignant neoplasm of breast and areola; mammary Paget's disease; Paget's disease of the nipple

     Description

This is a 3-in-1 reference book. It gives a complete medical dictionary covering hundreds of terms and expressions relating to Paget's disease of the breast. It also gives extensive lists of bibliographic citations. Finally, it provides information to users on how to update their knowledge using various Internet resources. The book is designed for physicians, medical students preparing for Board examinations, medical researchers, and patients who want to become familiar with research dedicated to Paget's disease of the breast. If your time is valuable, this book is for you. First, you will not waste time searching the Internet while missing a lot of relevant information. Second, the book also saves you time indexing and defining entries. Finally, you will not waste time and money printing hundreds of web pages.

     Table of Contents

ForwardChapter 1. Studies on Paget's Disease of the BreastOverviewFederally Funded Research on Paget's Disease of the BreastThe National Library of Medicine: PubMedChapter 2. Alternative Medicine and Paget's Disease of the BreastOverviewNational Center for Complementary and Alternative MedicineAdditional Web ResourcesGeneral ReferencesAppendix A. Physician ResourcesOverviewNIH GuidelinesNIH DatabasesOther Commercial DatabasesAppendix B. Patient ResourcesOverviewPatient Guideline SourcesFinding AssociationsAppendix C. Finding Medical LibrariesOverviewPreparationFinding a Local Medical LibraryMedical Libraries in the U.S. and CanadaONLINE GLOSSARIESOnline Dictionary DirectoriesPAGET'S DISEASE OF THE BREAST DICTIONARYINDEX

     Excerpt (Introduction)

In addition to offering a structured and comprehensive bibliography, this medical reference on Paget's disease of the breast will quickly direct you to resources and reliable information on the Internet, from the essentials to the most advanced areas of research. Public, academic, government, and peer-reviewed research studies are emphasized. Various abstracts are reproduced to give you some of the latest official information available to date. Abundant guidance is given on how to obtain free-of-charge primary research results via the Internet. E-book and electronic versions of this book are fully interactive with the Internet. For readers unfamiliar with the Internet, detailed instructions are offered on how to access electronic resources. For readers unfamiliar with medical terminology, a comprehensive glossary is provided. For readers without access to Internet resources, a directory of medical libraries, that have or can locate references cited here, is given. We hope these resources will prove useful to the widest possible audience seeking information on Paget's disease of the breast.

********************

[Hawk]

MeanMisterMustard,

The information in your last posts have been so far removed from plausible scientific explanation that it drove me back to your prior posts.  What I found is very troubling.  I will not rehash except to say that almost every post contains information that defies reason and looks much more like psychological obsession than a condition of the penis.

For instance: You state this started by an erection in your pants being bent at an awkward angle at 18 yrs old.  Every normal male alive had that as a frequent occurrence all through their teenage years.  You then go on to describe ever increasing plaques and discuss your Peyronies Disease at length while telling us 5 doctors found NOTHING.  You talk of fuller testicles immediately after taking drugs, fish oil that works within hours and antibiotics that give you night-time erection right after taking the first one.  You then post that you do not have Peyronies Disease after repeatedly posting that you do.

Below are quotes from your previous posts.

At this point I would have to suggest that you look into serious psychological counseling to see if that avenue helps you resolve these issues.



i am 23 years old, i had an accident five years ago, where my erected penis was bended. that did it, from that on i had trouble getting and maintaining an erection, and it got worse with time.  in time plaque evolved, had a iontoforesis, which improved conditions, but not too much.
___________________________________________________________
i have had stuffable and non curved erections using ED-drugs after the trazodone-incident. so traz is definetly not responsible for the curve, it just brought it to the light.  as to the curve that i got, it was immense and felt really weird - i touched one part of my penis and from within my penis it felt as if I'd be touching some other part, that's to say, the sensation didn't correspond to the part that i touched. but i have never had these curve before or after, and it does never ocur halfway on the way to an erection. that would take me back to the blockage of chambers ... (?)
________________________________________________________________
i can not say it 100% sure if its the pentox, but in combination with the cialis i have yesterday had the fullest erection in months. plus, i'm experiencing a weird but good feeling tickling in the bump between my testicles and my anus in the past days. i have to add thatED is not a result of Peyronies Disease, but ED is the result of an accident and trauma, Peyronies Disease came addionally after a few years
____________________________________________________________________
URGENT ADVICE PLEASE

I have noticed that my Peyronies Disease has gotten worse, ......in the past 3 days i felt a strange burning pain inside of my penis., which leads me to the conclusion that there's bad things going on as to the inflammation.

another thing is that i've lately noticed a lot of new plaques - all down over the place where the scrotum is "fixed to" down to the bump between scrotum and anus, all full of irregular strange corroborations. are these plaques or are plaques usually only along the shaft?
__________________________________________________________
Age of onset of Peyronies Disease: 18 (not 100% sure I got Peyronies Disease, docs say they can't feel plague, but I got symptoms like the hourglass and severe ED)

Future Plans: having the lump im my left testicle checked out by a good doctor, the one I saw said it was nothing but it hurts sometimes and it swells when i take cialis.
_____________________________________________________________________
my injury occurred 5 years ago, i was .... i was making out with a girl on a couch, had a firm erection, had to get up, was too embarrassed to adjust my erection within my pants, so getting up it was pressed to the side in a weird way.

since then my erections have constantly gotten poorer, no nighttime erections at all, pain after sex, phases with constant pain, white defluxion, hourglass efects, ... and heavy psychological effects of course, depressions and so on.
___________________________________________________________________
none of the 5+ docs I've seen so far has been able to tell me what's going on. there's no palpable plaque. but there's deformations, the beginning part of my penis, the part that's closest to my body, is thinner than the rest, and still seems to be losing circumference.
_____________________________________________________________________
I got an appointment tomorrow for a eco-doppler, but I´m not sure whether i should attend. the thing is, i already had a doppler 1,5 years ago, and nothing came out, everything was normal, so my severe (and still growing) ED-problems couldn't be explained.
__________________________________________________________________
the doctor has therefore only seen the bloodflow in the flaccid state, and as expected, couldn't find any abnormalties.
__________________________________________________________________
taking pentox and l-arginine, the amount of blood flowing through my testicles has increased. that used to also increase bloodflow in the penis, leading to a fuller hang, but lately, the blood remains in the testicles without transferring to the penis -> full testicles, but still poor bloodflow in the penis.

(i'm suffering severe and worsening ED without diagnosis - docs tested and tested and found no explanation. the only thing they could tell me was that a lot of blood enters, but doesn't stay in my penis. they offered no explanation for that)
___________________________________________________________________
I'm more and more convinced that what I'm suffering is a cronic inflammation inside my penis. omega 3 capsules, that I've only just started taking two days ago, seem to help a lot
___________________________________________________________________
I understand your doubts, but as I don't have Peyronies Disease....

[Tim468]

Hawk,

Although I share completely your assessment of the obsessive nature of MMM's thinking (and irrationality of some of it), if we accept as "true" that he has an hourglass deformity and ED, than it sort of sounds like Peyronie's Disease to me.

I think that for many young and ill-informed men, ANY change in their penis or testes is reason for panic. Thus, the normal ruggae of the scrotum (the bumpiness) gets more pronounced at times, especially when we are "uptight and outta sight". That normal variation in the penis/scrotum might cause MMM to state: "another thing is that i've lately noticed a lot of new plaques - all down over the place where the scrotum is "fixed to" down to the bump between scrotum and anus, all full of irregular strange corroborations (sic). are these plaques or are plaques usually only along the shaft?"

I don't think I answered that query at the time - for how can you?

The goofy correlations between drugs and immediate changes strongly suggests one of two things. Either he is unable to properly assess what is what in his body (ie mistaking the normal variation in scrotal bumpiness for new plaque formation; or mistaking the normal variations in size of scrotum for "increased blood flow"), or he has a nearly normal penis that looks abnormal on it's way to a full erection, and so he sees it as remarkably changeable in relation to drugs, when in fact, it may be more related to erection quality. And, of course, if erection quality can vary that much, then it suggests a psychological component to the ED.

The good news MeanMrMustard, is that we can learn more about anatomy by reading and listening to our mentors like doctors, AND we can get help for any psychological component of ED and fix it.

I hope that you do so.

Tim

[Hawk]

Tim,  I do not disagree with a word you said.  I do want to emphasis one statement however,

if we accept as "true" that he has an hourglass deformity and ED, than it sort of sounds like Peyronie's Disease to me.

Clearly as you said, MMM is either extremely over estimating normal changes in his somewhat diseased genitals or doing the same in his normal genitals.  Adding to this, his awkwardly placed erection at 18 as a cause for Peyronies Disease at an exceptionally young age, his "severe curve on one erection and none on any other erection, doctors finding nothing, etc., ....Who could guess.

Clearly his gross exaggeration of changes, along with his associating injuries and improvements with unlikely events, indicate a strong psychological component.  This being the case, his ED no doubt has a strong psychological component as well.  

I also note that he describes testicle problems, and leaking fluids, and painful urination. that doctors fail to substantiate.

MMM, please understand that I am not saying you are psychotic.  We are saying that you need help gaining insight and perspective.  Your mis-characterization of symptoms and connecting changes and causes to such inconsequential events, make it difficult for us to even evaluate what is going on much less to give input.

[m-1]

Hi All,
I've been visiting this site for over a year just hiding in the background and reading everything.
The one thing that I have noticed is, no one has ever stated that they have been cured.
All the possible treatments and ointments and whatever,,, and yet nothing.
I hear from my doctor that %50 of patients will be cured.
So is there anyone out there who can give us a good ending story?
Is there 1 in 2 that have had the problem go away?
Thoughts???    

m-1

[wanksta1]

hi guys im new to this...when i was about 13 i masturbated really rough not thinking about what i may have been doing, i can remember one time my penis swelled up after, and had like pain thoughout the next few days but was to scared to tell anyone. For the last 6 or so years my penis is rarley ever relaxed when flaccid it was seems retracted and semi hard, and sometimes if im nervous or after sex my penis can form into a hourglass shape which is very uncomfortable and just strange whcih im almost positive is from masturbation when i was younger. Im 23 now and ive never had a problem with normal erections, i just believe my penis has experienced shortening or denting because of this and want to do whatever i can to change it, and also prevent peyronies disease in the future.....any thoughts or questions or anything is much appreciated .......other signs and symptoms- there are like almsot big veins or bands going around the sides where the hourglass forms and are soft to touch and are mainly visible with erection...also have needle head size bumbs on the bottom of my shaft and a few going down it, almost looks like chicken skin .....please help

[Liam]

I hate to disagree with your doctor (especially with his optimistic spontaneous recovery rate).  I hope we can improve our curve or reduce our pain.  We should continue to use techniques that are scientifically sound.  But, it will not go away completely with the current treatments (or without).  

My personal opinion (based on my involvement for about 2 years) is there is a 0% spontaneous recovery rate.  Those that are said to recover (spontaneously) had a condition mislabeled as Peyronies Disease.  Even if we are both wrong, I bet I'm closer by far.  Some claim to have straightened their curve through different means.  The condition is still there, though.

There are those who may disagree with me.  Just call me Thomas (of doubting fame).

Sorry to be a downer.  It is important to look at this condition honestly.  I have not given up hope.  I just don't want to be given false hope.

Liam

[Hawk]

Unlike Liam I do believe there is spontaneous recovery as do most Peyronies Disease doctors but I suspect the rate is much closer to 10%.  It stands to reason that any known condition can on occasion reverse itself.  If the process stops, normal tissue replacement can slowly replace scar tissue.  Joshua who has not posted her for several months, experienced a very significant reversal of his Peyronies Disease.

For practical application, Liam's point is well taken.  We treat to minimize or stop the progression, and hopefully, actually improve the degree of deformity.