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Author Topic: VED. Why is it bad to hold the vacuum for several minutes?  (Read 3277 times)

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Arkibald

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VED. Why is it bad to hold the vacuum for several minutes?
« on: September 20, 2016, 08:06:50 AM »

Intuitively, I would expect the combination of a low vacuum and a long duration to be an efficient way to use a VED, as this will provide the scar tissue some time to stretch and remodel.


All protocols seem however to recommend using several cycles of pump -> hold a few seconds -> release the pressure -> pump again. I'm sure, there is a reason and some dearly gained experience behind this methodology, but I fail to understand it.


Why is it bad to let a VED session consist of just one (long) cycle, in which I maintain a low vacuum for, say ten or twenty minutes?









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Gutted

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Re: VED. Why is it bad to hold the vacuum for several minutes?
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2016, 08:49:14 AM »

I can well understand why the question would be asked really

My immediate thoughts would be two main things :

1. If you think about the fact the VED is essentially pulling in and 'trapping' blood in the penis (i.e the vacuum not the Erectile Dysfunction ring is holding the blood there) then in simple terms you can think of your 10 / 20 min hold as literally cutting the blood supply/circulation off for that period. You don't need to be trained in any Bio-science to understand that is not beneficial but potentially harmful to ANY tissue.

On top of that, some believe that the success of VED (for Peyronies Disease) is the 'forced' introduction of fresh blood into the penis and in particular the scar tissue where the blood vessels may be compressed and the vacuum helps 'pull' blood through those vessels thereby aiding any healing process through the introduction of oxygen and nutrients from the blood. So you would want to keep introducing fresh blood through short cycles on that basis.

2. Looking at the argument for mechanical stretching being the benefit of VED and your suggestion of an extremely long stretch being perhaps being more beneficial.

That is a more difficult debate. What I would say, is that if you talk to any Physio / Sports Injury rehabilitator about scar tissue (fibrosis) healing and the recovery of normal flexibility post-op or injury (a place I've been many times!!), you always get the same answer. They will say research shows that stretches of 30 second holds have been shown to be the most effective in this respect. A Physio would never give you a rehab routine that consisted of 10 - 20 minute stretch holds

Some on here subscribe to the fact some cases of Peyronies Disease develop a scar (post obvious acute serious traumatic incident) and the healing process should be treated that way, as opposed to others where Peyronies Disease may be more of an unexplained degenerative / genetic disorder.

I am not necessarily advocating 30 second holds during VED either. As the final point I would make, is that the Forum VED treatment protocols have been developed over many years of combined experience rather than just plucking an arbitrary 5 or 10 second hold out of the air.

Hope there is some food for thought there...
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Jonbinspain

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Re: VED. Why is it bad to hold the vacuum for several minutes?
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2016, 11:28:59 AM »

Gutted is correct. By holding a vacuum too long, you are starving your penis of oxygen carrying fresh blood.

Put simply, don't do it!...
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Old Man

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Re: VED. Why is it bad to hold the vacuum for several minutes?
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2016, 02:31:03 PM »

Gutted:   And New VED Users: FOR YOUR INFORMATION.

Gutted:
Reference your post about the holding times when using the VED therapy. The protocol has been modified several times since it was first posted way back when. The modifications were made due to the fact the holding times were questioned so many times about "why not hold the pumped up pressure longer".

After many PMs back and forth to me it was decided to modify the times a bit better than first posted for use. The main and most important reason is that the purpose of the up and down vacuum pressure is designed so that varying amount of vacuum would be applied. At the same time the times should be limited to keep from causing more trauma to an already injured Dick. Many users have finally realized that VED therapy IS NOT AN OVERNIGHT THERAPY AND ONE FOR THE LONG HAUL.

I want to caution again that careful pumping up the VED during therapy is the key to success. Over pumping the pressure only leads to more trauma to ones Dick, so please be careful with the amount of vacuum one pumps. I get the question about using a vacuum gage all the time for use with a VED. The best gage of vacuum in VED therapy is ones own built in gage = NOT FEELING ANY PAIN OR DISCOMFORT. If this occurs, release the pressure immediately and wait a while before resuming the therapy session.

The above suggestions are posted in order that new VED therapy users will be cautioned about the amount of pressure needed. Remember this: MORE PUMP UP AND RELEASE CYLES WITH MILD PRESSURE IS MUCH BETTER THAN HIGHER VACUUM AND/OR LONGER SESSIONS, ETC.

Old Man
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Age 91. Peyronies Disease at age 24, Peyronies Disease after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Heart surgery 2004 with three bypasses/three stents. Three stents in 2016. Hiatal hernia surgery 2017 with 1/3 stomach reduction. Many other surgeries in the last 10 years.

NeoV

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Re: VED. Why is it bad to hold the vacuum for several minutes?
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2016, 01:24:30 AM »

I held for several minutes, perhaps 5, though I acknowledge it could have been more than that since I was playing a PC game with my right hand.

I felt no pain but ended up rupturing something and damaging the lymphatic vessels in my penis, giving me a permanently numb and semi-swollen penis. Having this now for over three years, I have to say it's almost worse than the Peyronie's. I miss actually feeling my penis and having it feel normal. Luckily it is actually improving, very very slightly, and I've never had any girl notice it. Point is, be damn careful. Pain is not required for injury. My warning signs were only mind stretching and a kind of itch or stinging. In my mind I was doing it safely, and certainly did not feel as if I was using too much pressure either.


When you manipulate your penis, your going into no-man's land.



Yes, VED and traction are amazing tools which can give you very fast and amazing results, and you should try them, but there will be no help from any doctor and likely little sympathy for any damages you end up giving yourself. I'm stuck with these mystery symptoms now, so always practice "less is more," and be as gentle as possible. I truly wish I could continue the VED, but I'm afraid I can't. I still do traction every day by hand and the benefits are still amazing for me.

Arkibald

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Re: VED. Why is it bad to hold the vacuum for several minutes?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2016, 05:58:22 AM »

Thank you for your answers and thoughts.


NeoV: Yes, we are in a terrible no-man's land, but it is comforting, that a pioneers like Old Man have already been there and can talk from experience. That is what this forum is all about.


Arkibald

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beentheredonethat

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Re: VED. Why is it bad to hold the vacuum for several minutes?
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2017, 06:10:30 PM »

Pain is not required for injury. My warning signs were only mind stretching and a kind of itch or stinging. In my mind I was doing it safely, and certainly did not feel as if I was using too much pressure either.


When you manipulate your penis, your going into no-man's land.



Yes, VED and traction are amazing tools which can give you very fast and amazing results, and you should try them, but there will be no help from any doctor and likely little sympathy for any damages you end up giving yourself. I'm stuck with these mystery symptoms now, so always practice "less is more," and be as gentle as possible. I truly wish I could continue the VED, but I'm afraid I can't. I still do traction every day by hand and the benefits are still amazing for me.


perfectly said. i wouldnt go near that traction device again. its actually reinflamed my scar tissue now im going through this all over again. re-living the nightare. i am too scared to use ved for this reason and even what ur saying about stretching by hand.. i just cant see stretching the already pissed off scar tissue any more as doing it any good..  :( different for everyone i think. they needa infect some animals or some crap and start taking drastic approaches with needles and scalpels. find out what actually works! ill kick it off with 20g
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krazylord

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Re: VED. Why is it bad to hold the vacuum for several minutes?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2017, 03:23:27 AM »

Hopefully OldMan would read this.

This is totally dependent on your feelings and experience. In my case, It takes me several minutes to get to the point where my deformation is "treated". Meaning, in my case, I have a bottleneck right below the glans, so I need to use VED to fill that in so that it catches up with the rest. That means that you need to pump to the limit, because that part of the penis is the LAST, in my case, that gets blood in. So in order to get all my shaft perfectly parallel and against the cylinder walls, I need to pump several minutes. Once all the penis is perfectly straight and against the walls, then I release all of it, and start back again. I do this for about 15 mins.

THe problem is that to get to that point, sometimes take me 5 mins, some times even 10 mins, so during that time evidently I am not releasing pressure. I just go extremely slow. Like below:

1. I pump the first time
2. I wait 10 seconds
3. Repeat.

I pump and wait all the times needed to get to the point where I want to see my deformation corrected inside the VED cylinder. In my case, that is approx. 100% lenght size of my penis. Others do not need to extend that much, but in my case, for my deformation, if I dont do it, it never stretches the area that needs ot be treated. So as you see, it depends on where and what deformation you have.

My pump is the LA pump, and it has a little device that tells you how much pressure you have all the time. I always have less than 3 in. Hg vac.

It is incorrect to think that every time you pump you put more pressure. Sometimes, I pump 10 times, and the pressure is constant. It might be because I wait 10 seconds between pumps. I am not sure but don't think that because you are pumping, lets say 50 times, thats more pressure than 10 times. It normally is, but it depends how well concealed your device is. That's why is always good to have a VED device that tells you how much pressure you have. WIth mine, I know I should not go beyond 4, so I never do it, and I dont need to.

I hope I explained myself clear enough.

Now, I would *always* do as OldMan tells you. He is the expert. I am not. I tried to follow his program but neither the SomaErect nor the Encore VED devices helped me. The first one has 3 cylinders. And they have several issues for me. They are not parallel so your penis is going to be exercised with the first part wider than the glans. Secondly, the sizes do not fit my needs. And the second one is too big, and for Peyronies we need different cylinders to treat our disease. So, I ended up getting the LA lumps. Then, OldMan never recommen going beyong 50% the size of your penis lengthy-wise and never hold more than 10 seconds. This is *impossible* for me, because this *would never treat* my condition. It takes me several minutes just to get the penis inflated enough to treat the part of my penis that needs to be treated, so those "10 seconds hold" rule does not apply to me. However, one I get to the point I need, then I hold 10 seconds. never more than that, as OldMan says. It is just that the time to takes me to get to that point is minutes, not seconds.

But again, that's just me. OldMan is the expert.

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krazylord

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Re: VED. Why is it bad to hold the vacuum for several minutes?
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2017, 03:48:27 AM »

Somehow my message got duplicated. Someone please delete the first one. Thanks ;)
Done :)
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james1947

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Re: VED. Why is it bad to hold the vacuum for several minutes?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2017, 03:51:31 AM »

krazylord
Write a PM to Old Man (copy/paste your post), I am sure he will answer you :)

James
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Age 71, Peyronies from Jan 2009 following penis fracture during sex. Severe Erectile Dysfunction.
Lost 2" length and a lot of girth. Late start, still VED, Cialis & Pentox helped. Prostate surgery 2014.
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BravoMike

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Re: VED. Why is it bad to hold the vacuum for several minutes?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2017, 05:33:14 AM »

I am currently on a break from VED as a result of giving myself an edema through over pumping / prolonged duration.

At the time I didn't think I was doing any thing wrong. Just a usual cycle of therapy albeit using the small cylinder and maybe creating a bit of a bigger erection and holding it a little longer than usual during one of those flashes of frustration / anger at my deformed dick and a desire to straighten it.

The result was some sort of edema that left my flaccid penis with a fluid filled bulb the size of a plum under the glans and a "doughnut" of fluid under and around the head.

Now, after 12+ months of Peyronies Disease you'd think I'd be desensitised to an unexpected horror show when examining at my penis - but seeing my flaccid dick in this condition was probably a bigger shock than noticing the first signs of Peyronies Disease when erect.

It really freaked me out and I'm ever grateful to OldMan and other members here who responded quickly and sensibly to my plight when I approached them.

It now seems to be resolved but I think I got away lightly after hearing the experiences of others.

I treated it like an injured limb - lay flat with some pillows under me to raise my dick above heart level for a few hours and occasionally applied a cold pack and some gentle downward stroke massage - then left it completely alone for days.

Within about a day most of the fluid had gone and apart from baggy skin and a spongy feeling things seemed to returning to as normal as it gets with Peyronies Disease. They continued to improve over the next few days and now, a few weeks on, it seems to be resolved; erections are fine and I have no loss / change of sensation.

But as I say, I think I have been extremely fortunate.

I would add that the directions for Peyronies Disease treatment that came with my ved (full erection, 30 second hold) exceed the recommendations on this forum  - as a result of my personal experience I would say this is far too aggressive. Vacuum induced erections are not the same as natural ones and I would urge anybody considering VED therapy for Peyronies Disease to follow the forum guidelines and OldMan's advice to the letter as I will make sure I do when I resume.
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mischa

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Re: VED. Why is it bad to hold the vacuum for several minutes?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2017, 12:51:58 PM »

I had this same problem after over pumping one time and after shots. Warm compresses will help. Outs just interstitial fluid.
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Mischa😕

beentheredonethat

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Re: VED. Why is it bad to hold the vacuum for several minutes?
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2017, 05:18:19 PM »

that would freak me out completely. ^^ what old mate said about no mans land is bang on. cant believe it took me so long to start actually following this forum. the information here is so much better then anywhere else
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