L-Arginine lowering testosterone levels?

[GuitarHero]

Hey guys,

sorry if this is old news around here already, but I didn't find any topic of this at first sight.

There's been several articles on internet about Arginine lowering test levels significantly, even in rather low doses. This sounds very interesting and plausible to me, because in the past as I used to take Arginine for gym workouts etc., I noticed more than once that week or two after starting I actually had TROUBLE with erections and loss of morning wood, which is very weird as Arginine is well known for it's capability to boost erections. I tested this by quitting it and starting again, and same thing happened. Of course it can be something to do with too low blood pressure for example, as Arginine can do that.

Link deleted by moderator - James
Links to commercial sites are not allowed!!!
Next such link will be followed by a warning!!!

Now for us Peyronies Disease sufferers this is a major thing IMO, because there's clear link between fibrosis of penile tissue and low test levels. And the other way around, sufficient test levels have been shown to heal those tissues, and heal even mild venous leakage etc.  So we definitely want to keep our test levels as high as possible.

What do you think about D-Ascorbatic Acid which is also mentioned in those studies? I just started to experiment with it few days ago after reading about these things on internet, and I'm with open mind as I've seen A LOT of positive feedback about it's capability to fix below-the-bar test levels to more normal.

[kuaka]

Since I've had low T for a while...quite possibly most of my adult life due to testicular injury at 19...and I'm now on Depo-T injectable, and I seem to be getting some results from VED/Traction...the relationship between Peyronie's and low T is definitely on my radar.  I will be sticking with the Depo-T, as it is much more affordable than the Androgel and more effective.  I'll just have to get used to sticking myself with a needle monthly...it could be worse, like daily, so I'm not complaining at all.

[GuitarHero]

In my opinion testosterone levels and therefore DHT levels specifically could be one of main culprits for this unfortunate disease. Could well explain why for example Propecia (dht inhibitor) is wellknown to cause not only Peyronies but also very peyronies-like symptoms in many otherwise healthy men.

Would be interesting to see a study of t-levels among Peyronies Disease sufferers. Perhaps there is such thing already? Don't know.

However the studies of L-arginine seem alarming to me, when it comes to t levels and the fact that consuming L-arg is one of the most popular attempts to heal this condition.

[skunkworks]

Since when is finasteride 'well known' to cause Peyronie's? Do you have a study showing that?

And please don't post a link to propeciahelp, that site has zero credibility.  

[GuitarHero]

Errm.. Sorry but I don't get it. I'm here to help my fellow sufferers just like all others.It's a fact that there are studies showing that there might be something with arginine lowering testosterone levels. And if this happens to be the case, I think it would be important to discuss it here as it might be a major factor in this and good to know when considering supplements etc.

They are not selling anything on that site, so I don't see why the link was bad?

Also, about Propecia. I have taken it once, years and years ago. And that's basically where all of this slowly started, and finally hell broke loose when I had a sex injury.  When I took it, even the doctor told me there's a slight possibility that it might shrink the penis a bit at some individuals, causes curvature or twist (specifically to the left, I don't know why. DHT levels seem to do that) and a condition called Peyronies Disease.  And so it did. And I don't wonder, DHT is the thing keeping penile tissues in shape, as well as testosterone.

You can search through Propecia communities, they have plenty of web forums where it's common knowledge how Propecia has caused people chronic ED and lots of Peyronies cases or similar symptoms like curvature, loss of sensation, dents, shrinkage etc.

I think this has to be one of the basic things to know around here too. if somebody in this forum is taking this drug, it's the first thing to get rid of (but correctly! It's a sensitive process) in this battle.

[james1947]

GuitarHero

Maybe they are not sealing nothing but have advertisements on they website.
Send me the link in a PM, I will check again the subject.

James
 

[Pfract]

Getting ED from a sex trauma i can understand. But risking erectile dysfunction and other things in your penis just because one doesn't want to be bald, it's something i simply don't understand....  

[GuitarHero]

I sent the link to james, and I'm trying to find the actual study outside that website I was linking to. Because it might be an interesting topic after all.

pfract,  tell me about it. Biggest mistake I have ever ever done in my life. Still so angry that doctor didn't tell me about these side effects in the first place, it was not until I went again and told about the things the drug has caused. And I was a young dude back then. Ruined all hormone levels, big time.  Someone should almost make a sticky to this forum warning of that.

[james1947]

GuitarHero

As I wrote you in my PM, the site is a commercial site, have a shopping cart top, right.
Copy/past the content of the research/article without the commercial aspects.

James  

[skunkworks]

I'm sorry but no, 'common knowledge' 'basic things to know', that is not evidence. Those are assumptions and until evidence can be shown you should not be stating it as fact.

Are there any studies showing a link between Propecia and Peyronie's? If so, post them. If not, do not state it as fact.

I don't think anyone should be taking finasteride or dutasteride, but I also don't think anyone should be posting assumptions as if they were fact.

[GuitarHero]

Sorry if I expressed myself in a bad manner, no I don't know these as a fact. But let's say, that you can find several stories from this forum, and hundreds more from propeciahelp-forums that all tell how this condition, or more or less similar symptoms have started after the use of finasteride.  I myself am one of those people.

And when even a doctor warns you about it... I assume it could be called somewhat "common knowledge" don't you think.

But, you are right. There are no studies made, or if there is those have not been published at least. Way or another, all stay away from that terrible drug.

[skunkworks]

Again, no I don't think it could or should be called common knowledge at all.

Incidence of Peyronie's is estimated at around 1-3% of the male population who actually seek diagnosis and treatment. The number will be higher than that as quite a few people never visit a doctor about it.

So if you have 750,000 people taking propecia, that means you could see up to 22,500 of those men get Peyronie's.  22,500 men who might blame that case of Peyronie's on finasteride, despite the fact that they would have got it even if they weren't on the drug. That is why stories on forums and especially that waste of space site propecia-help are of zero value as evidence with regards to this. It is also why drug trials have a placebo group. The rate of Peyronie's would need to be higher than that of the regular population not taking it, and so far there is zero evidence for that being the case.

[james1947]

Let me chem in. I just read an article regarding Propecia/Finasteride side effects:
Propecia – Side Effects of Hair Loss Drug Include Erectile Dysfunction
Peyronies is not mentioned as one of them even ones.

James

[GuitarHero]

Yes, I see your point statistically. But in this site, our point of view should be to look critically everything that even MIGHT cause, or worsen this condition.

If you think it, this drug lowers DHT.  DHT is the hormone keeping penile tissues in shape with testosterone, I have read many stories where typical peyronies symptoms have flared up just from the fluctuation in DHT levels caused by propecia - for many fortunate ones these have luckily reversed after getting off that drug.  This drug can cause erection problems, ejaculation problems, libido loss, penis shrinkage to some point, and twisting of penis.  You don't think there might be a link..?

In this forum there are many who see a very plausible link with their illness to the use of this drug. I myself, experienced serious loss of sensation (numbness), got a twist to my penis (to left), and lost size while using that drug years ago. And soon after got peyronies.  

So statistics probably say as you told, that it's not one of the official side effects. But as I told you, if the doctor, who was a skin specialist (not an urologist) told me this illness is one of the rare, but still possible side effects - it tells something as well I think.

Not to argue, just making a point as I'd hate to see someone thinking "oh well, if statistics say, then I'll take it and save my hair" and end up with problems.

[james1947]

It may be something in what you are saying GuitarHero.
Myself, broke my penis in an accident during sex after stopped taking Finasteride that caused me ED.
Luckily, the ED gone gradually after I quit taking Finasteride.
It will not hold a court case saying that I broke my penis because the Finasteride. I broke my penis because of rough sex of my wife as a cowgirl.
Can make speculations that residual ED from Finasteride caused me to take 100 mg Viagra for the above mentioned sex session and the penis broke because it was too hard. But again, it will be just speculations.

James

[Pressure]

Well I am ditching L-Arginine for Citrulline Malate, I hope it doesn't affect testosterone levels. Going to take 1.5g twice a day.

[wonderbread1662]

Pressure,

I can't speak for L-Arginine as I have never taken it. But Citrulline Malate has give me a lot more blood flow and energy. I don't know if it helps with testosterone levels but I certainly feel like it helps with that. Great for workouts and I feel it has given me an increase in my sex drive. Definitely would recommend it. I take it in powdered form at 2 grams a day.

[GuitarHero]

I have tried citrulline malate myself for few past weeks as well. Haven't noticed anything with erections, but it increases ejaculate volume like a crazy. Don't know why, never seen such an effect with anything else.

With arginine, I have had such a weird experiences. For some reason in 3-4 occasions where I have tried to take it, after few days or a week I have got severe ED. Even while masturbating the penis has stayed limp.  I never understood this, but each time it went away when I stopped it.

Anybody has an idea what can cause this?  Perhaps something with it lowering blood pressure? I usually have normal blood pressure in the middle of the scale.

This is the reason why I became interested about this "lowering testosterone" thing in the first place. I've seen some reports on internet that for some, it lowers the libido. I wonder why.

[PeetyPeet]

Hi, I've been taking L-Arginine 3 grams a day, along with 10mg Cialis a day for a few weeks now. Touch wood, I've noticed no lowering of my libido so far. I was taking 5 grams of L-arginine a day, but I reduced this when I started Cialis as I noticed some potential low blood pressure symptoms - particularly dizziness when standing up from sitting down.

As low blood pressure can restrict the amount of blood flowing to vital organs, my layman's guess is that yes it could contribute to ED. How much Arginine have you been taking daily? Why not try lowering your dose or taking on alternate days?  

[PeetyPeet]

Sorry, also forgot to mention that if you're concerned about testosterone levels, you could try zinc supplements. I've read zinc boosts testosterone.