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Quote from: George999 on August 22, 2007, 11:37:07 AMIf Induration is indeed immature Plaque,
QuoteI figure that if we can ever find anything that Hawk and Liam can agree on, we are probably getting close to the truth.
QuoteI liked your Hawk and Liam agreement comment. When I saw he agreed I went back to re-read to see what I had written to see if I made some typo.
QuoteI think you probably have congenital curvature. In some cases the curvature can put enough stress on the tissue to induce secondary Peyronies. If this causes scarring opposite the bend, it may actually straighten the penis - but with shortening. Sort of a natural nesbit effect. MG
Quote from: Liam on August 26, 2007, 09:03:41 PM It is interesting he says "secondary" Peyronie's. ...It differentiates it from "regular" Peyronies Disease.
QuoteA secondary disease is simply a disease caused by a preceding disease.
QuoteNothing in that implies natural progression of the disease varies in any way.
Quote from: Liam on August 27, 2007, 08:59:27 AM... if the cause (like mechanical stress) is identified and removed (neutralized) will the fibrosis stop advancing or possibly dissappear? I bet it does.
QuoteSorry to be redundant but I keep thinking if I say the same thing in a slightly different way we will strike on communication.
Quote... if the cause (like mechanical stress) is identified and removed (neutralized) will the fibrosis stop advancing or possibly dissappear? I bet it does. I bet it typically does NOT.
QuoteHawk, I noticed you said typically indicating you think there may be a possibility under some conditions. I also hold out that some may not. Figuring out which do and which don't (recover) may help unravel the mystery of Peyronies Disease.
QuoteThe other thing of which I am not completely convinced is that doctors (and patients filling out surveys) all have the same understanding of the disease. I tend to agree with the "Plaque Gone Wild" model. I'm not sure every diagnosis of Peyronies Disease is confirmed, though. If there was an injury causing fibrosis, how do they know it is fibrosis "that over-runs the bounds of any injury and replaces healthy undamaged tissue." They only know what they see that day. When I was diagnosed, I had two little tiny itsy bitsy nodules. I had no curve and no pain. Things changed The diagnosis was correct. Suppose they never changed. Is it still Peyronies Disease or just a normal response to an unknown trauma. Is there such a thing as a normal response to trauma or is that Peyronies Disease, too? I am suspicious that penile fibrosis equal Peyronies Disease in the lexicon of many professionals.
QuoteIt seems to me, the term Peyronies Disease includes so much, I am starting to see it in a different light.In the COPD Peyronies Disease group of medical conditions... diverse disorders with similar consequences in the body. Modified from a quote from this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COPDMaybe this overstates it, but it is closer than my understanding of the definition yesterday .
QuoteThere is no such thing as normal response to trauma that is Peyronies Disease since Peyronies Disease is fibrosis that overruns the bounds of an injury and continues on to healthy tissue. If you have a fine surgical cut half way through your penis and develop a fine scar there it is not Peyronies Disease. If you run your penis through a meat grinder and have a gnarly, twisted, scared, diminished, penis, that probably is not Peyronies Disease. In neither case did the healing process go awry.
QuoteIt is pretty easy to agree that if urologists are as ignorant of Peyronies Disease as the Levine survey seem to indicate that many urologists also use flawed definitions and diagnoses.
QuoteWe are getting closer to a meeting of the minds. Smiley What about inter-septal scarring (ISS- Atypical Peyronies Disease) - http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/bsc/jsm/2007/00000004/00000001/art00027
QuoteComment: Remember though that this is not the place we most typically see Peyronies Disease develop so I guess it would not be typical Peyronies Disease. It would be "atypical Peyronies Disease" but Peyronies Disease none the less.
Quote...its more likely a slow healing wound than Peyronie's Disease
Quote Re: M1 -50% Myth « Reply #498 on: May 17, 2007, 05:03:45 PM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic --------------------------------------------------------------------------------I hate to disagree with your doctor (especially with his optimistic spontaneous recovery rate). I hope we can improve our curve or reduce our pain. We should continue to use techniques that are scientifically sound. But, it will not go away completely with the current treatments (or without). My personal opinion (based on my involvement for about 2 years) is there is a 0% spontaneous recovery rate. Those that are said to recover (spontaneously) had a condition mislabeled as Peyronies Disease. Even if we are both wrong, I bet I'm closer by far. Some claim to have straightened their curve through different means. The condition is still there, though.There are those who may disagree with me. Just call me Thomas (of doubting fame).Sorry to be a downer. It is important to look at this condition honestly. I have not given up hope. I just don't want to be given false hope.Liam
QuoteI also will NEVER believe, and I do not think Dr. Levine believes or would suggest that a significant curve, in the absence of any reported injury, or event, could be caused by a "wound".
QuoteIn my many years of practice I have treated many conditions, the majority of which were not true Peyronies Disease. These have been meticulously documented and range from hemorrhoids to fractures of the metatarsals.
Quote from: Mick on January 04, 2009, 10:24:20 PMWhat's DD?
Quote from: Angus on July 31, 2007, 05:24:05 PM