Does anyone know of a B-complex without folic acid. It is outrageous how the saturate every food, every multi-vitamin, and every B-complex with the stuff.
I also like multi-vitamins with low Calcium, folic acid, D, and NO iron. The No iron is pretty easy to find.
There are some concerns about all of these and I like to exclude them or regulate them in individual pill form.
Quote from: Hawk on August 23, 2009, 04:39:28 PM
Does anyone know of a B-complex without folic acid.
I have the same concerns too. I take methylfolate instead of folic acid. I like AOR's new formulation of their B-complex (http://www.aor.ca/html/products.php?id=8). I usually get mine from RI (http://www.relentlessimprovement.com/), but they are still stocking the old formulation with folic acid.
Thorne (http://www.thorne.com) makes some interesting B complexes. Here (http://www.thorne.com/order_online.wss/search_display/individual_product/item_guid/de3fec7c-5acf-b66f-57dc-a9221193011f) is a nice one. It's a mixture of folinic acid and methylfolate.
s&s
Hawk, what's the concern with Folic Acid? My doc has recomended I take quite a bit for an adrenal fatigue problem I have ... is there a concern insofar as Peyronie's?
Nemo
Because it reduces birth defects it is added to cereals, breads, multi vitamins, etc. Problem is that it is linked to increases in several forms of cancer. Since I (along with 75% of the population) do not plan on getting pregnant, I would like to be able to increase my B intake without increasing my folic acid intake.
For whatever its worth, I have some issues with the concept of multi-vitamins in general. One, of course, is the fact that it forces one to take nutrients they may not really need and which may, in fact, as Hawk suggests, be harmful. The other, which is just as big a concern for me, is that multi-vitamins often contain key essential nutrients which I might sorely need, which are formulated in a way in which they are biologically useless. I am thinking especially of multiple fat soluble vits which are notoriously ineffective in dry form. And this creates a chain of deficiencies since other nutrients REQUIRE proper levels of those fat soluble vits in order to be properly metabolized. So, for that reason alone, I have never been crazy about multi's. I prefer the other approach in which I have been likened by my wife on multiple occasions to a chicken pecking at my pile of little pills. That way, at least I can control both the quantity and quality of what I am consuming. - George
PS - Additional problems are the fact that certain nutrients simply don't go well together and others are better taken at certain times of the day. Some are better taken in time release formulation for both safety and effectiveness and others not. Doing all this with a multi is a huge compromise.
I don't disagree with any of that George but my plan has always begun with a base multi with E, C B complex, CoQ10, pycogenol, lycopene, arginine, etc added to that base at specific times through the day.
The problem with Folic acid is whether you decide to take it or leave it, you decide to do the same for the entire B-complex group since they always accompany each other.
Quote from: Hawk on September 06, 2009, 04:41:46 PM
The problem with Folic acid is whether you decide to take it or leave it, you decide to do the same for the entire B-complex group since they always accompany each other.
This Canadian site (http://www.cureself.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=15911) has the new AOR B-complex. No folic acid; they use methylfolate instead.
s&s
Quote from: slowandsteady on September 06, 2009, 05:56:09 PM
Quote from: Hawk on September 06, 2009, 04:41:46 PM
The problem with Folic acid is whether you decide to take it or leave it, you decide to do the same for the entire B-complex group since they always accompany each other.
This Canadian site (http://www.cureself.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=15911) has the new AOR B-complex. No folic acid; they use methylfolate instead.
s&s
BUT is methylfolate any safer than folic acid? The both provide the same underlying nutrient. - George
Exactly George. I am NOT looking for another form of folate/folic acid, I am looking to reduce the daily load of all forms of folate while still getting other B vitamins.
Quote from: George999 on September 06, 2009, 06:32:41 PM
BUT is methylfolate any safer than folic acid? The both provide the same underlying nutrient. - George
One big question is whether it's the unmetabolized folic acid that's causing all of the problems, and I don't think that this question has been conclusively answered.
Not everyone metabolizes folic acid well. Methylfolate is the form your body converts folic acid to, so at least that part of the risk is retired.
There seems to be an issue in people who have high folate but low B12 (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_2_171/ai_n17154787/):
QuoteAbout 23 percent of the volunteers had B12 concentrations that the researchers deemed low. Within that group, people who had the highest concentrations of folic acid were 9.6 times as likely to show signs of cognitive impairment as those with less folic acid. Surprisingly, anemia was also 3.1 times as common in the group with high concentrations of folic acid.
Among people with healthy B12 levels, however, folic acid appeared to protect against cognitive impairment, and it had no significant relationship to anemia, the researchers report in the January American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.
"We only found potential adverse effects in people who had low vitamin B12," Morris says. "Generally speaking, folate is good for cognition."
Pharmacologist A. David Smith of the University of Oxford in England estimates that 1.8 million U.S. seniors may be at risk of anemia and cognitive impairment because of folic acid fortification. Governments in Europe and the United Kingdom have not mandated fortification, though British officials are considering it.
"I'm recommending to the U.K. government that they don't go ahead with fortification," says Smith. He also suggests that another form of folic acid might be safer.
"Folic acid fortification: the good, the bad, and the puzzle of vitamin B-12" (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/85/1/3) states:
Quote1 ) Is the balance between folate and vitamin B-12 status equally as important as the absolute concentrations of these vitamins? The application of mathematical modeling may help to answer this question (18).
2 ) By what mechanisms does a high folate status in persons with a low vitamin B-12 status cause anemia and cognitive impairment?
3 ) Is unmetabolized folic acid the culprit? Data from a small number of subjects in the United States indicate that folic acid accounts for 16% of the plasma folate in persons whose total plasma folate concentration is >50 nmol/L (19). More data on the prevalence and concentrations of folic acid in the blood are needed, the factors that influence it, and the effects it has on folate one-carbon metabolism.
4 ) Given the recent findings, would it be safer to use methylfolate instead of folic acid as a supplement?
5 ) Is the imbalance between folate and vitamin B-12 associated with any other adverse effects, particularly in vulnerable sectors of the population (eg, pregnant and lactating women and infants)? A preliminary report from India suggests that such an imbalance (low vitamin B-12 and high folate status) in pregnant mothers may have adverse effects on the health of their children (20).
6 ) Is the complex relation between folate and cancer (8, 17) possibly a reflection in part of folate's interaction with vitamin B-12?
The safest conclusion would be to make sure enough B12 is received. For myself, I'm taking l-methylfolate since my homocysteine is higher than I'd like.
s&s
Hawk, you might want to look at Custom Capsule (https://www.customcapsule.com/). You can leave out folic acid altogether.
s&s
Interesting link on cautions about folate and B12 not directly related to Peyronies Disease.
http://www.psa-rising.com/eatingwell/vb12_folate04.html
Over the past four days I've started adding high dose niacin to my routine, after reading in PMID 9490651 about how niacin and taurine (in a hamster model of lung fibrosis)
- inhibit the expression of procollagen type I and type III genes
- decreased TGF-beta1 mRNA
- decreased TGF-beta1 protein
- decreased lung collagen
- inhibited TGF-beta1 mRNA expression
I have to say that it's one of the better things I've ever tried for Peyronies Disease. Inflammation is pounded way down, and a little itching is even felt, like with a healing wound. Curcumin I find to be slightly superior for suppressing inflammation, but I feel that niacin gets closer to the root cause of Peyronies Disease.
I started using inositol hexanicotinate, 2g with breakfast and 2g with supper. After several days of doing this, I tried a higher dose of nicotinic acid that I had previously used. I was surprised to find that I could take 500mg of nicotinic acid after lunch and not be particularly bothered by flushing, whereas before 200 mg would give me quite the flush. Inositol hexanicotinate works as a timed release version of nicotinic acid. My goal is to replace some of the niacin from inositol hexanicotinate with nicotinic acid.
I also take 2g taurine with breakfast and supper, and am considering increasing that too.
s&s
I started the taurine thread because although I've been here for a long time, it'd something that I'd never taken until very recenty. When you look at the research it is useful for fibrossis and inflammation in a number of organs (in some animals) and as such it seems like something worth of time. I haven't tried the Niacin and taurine combo though, so maybe it's something worth trying. I have felt this itch you talk of on occasion. It happened to me when I started taking pycnogenol with my l-arginine, but didn't last for long. I worry about the protective effective that pycnogenol has in peyronie's, so perhaps it is actually best suited to those with very recent peyronie's (to help with quick healing), or those with a stable condition to help with erections. Just a theory.
Can you let me know the niacin supplement you bought? I tend to buy from iherb as they have a good selection, though am able to get cheap taurine from holland and barret here in the UK, so that's less of a problem.
Sure, it's all iherb. I'd post the links but I don't seem to be able at the moment.
Inositol hexanicotinate (Now Foods, Flush-Free Niacin, Double Strength, 500 mg, 90 Vcaps)
Nicotinic acid (Nature's Way, Niacin, Nicotinic Acid, 100 mg, 100 Capsules )
Taurine (Now Foods, Taurine Powder, 8 oz)
It's interesting that another poster reported relief with HBOT (hyperbaric oxygen therapy), which increases oxygen in the blood and tissues. It can actually oxygenate tissues farther away from capillaries. Niacin, which causes small capillaries to get larger might have a similar effect.
Quote from: slowandsteady on September 29, 2009, 11:01:59 PM
It's interesting that another poster reported relief with HBOT (hyperbaric oxygen therapy), which increases oxygen in the blood and tissues. It can actually oxygenate tissues farther away from capillaries. Niacin, which causes small capillaries to get larger might have a similar effect.
Pentox increases tissue blood oxygen as well, at least in studies I have read regarding its use in congenital heart disease and the treatment of radiation therapy complications. From what I can see, oxygen plays a big part in reducing fibrosis. The other side of the coin is that diabetes, heart disease and smoking, which reduce circulation and lower blood oxygen levels, contribute to the development of Peyronie's.
I think I might try niacin myself. This is great information.
well, is not Niacin just an other name for the vitamin D3 ??
Quote from: Ralf3 on October 01, 2009, 10:26:45 AM
well, is not Niacin just an other name for the vitamin D3 ??
No, it's actually vitamin B3.
Quote from: slowandsteady on October 01, 2009, 11:24:59 AM
Quote from: Ralf3 on October 01, 2009, 10:26:45 AM
well, is not Niacin just an other name for the vitamin D3 ??
No, it's actually vitamin B3.
I am sorry...I was blind. ;)
very interesting :) I am still struggling with 1 cig per day so again here is another great reason to quit. I have taken naicin a long time ago for other reasons and I am interested in buying it again for this.
"I am sorry...I was blind."
I suggest Carotine, then. ;)
Tim
Aspirin totally eliminated the niacin flush for me. I know it naturally decreases over time anyway, but this seems to stop it dead. Is that a good idea though? The flush for all intents and purposes appears to be a positive thing. Does its elimination mean that some of the benefits of niacin are lost?
The full text (http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/17/10/2074) of the article
Homocysteine as a Risk Factor for Vascular Disease is available.
In this paper, the authors find an increase in collagen production in a dose dependent fashion when homocysteine is added to cell cultures. The lowest dose at which this occurred was 50 µmol/L, which many people have but is still quite high (my homocysteine was around 13 a couple of years back but is now around eight).
Like atherosclerosis, Peyronies Disease also has increased collagen deposition, smooth muscle cell defects, and "excessive deposition of extracellular matrix protein".
The paper also stated that "SMC proliferation is stimulated by short-term exposure to Hcy". Plasma homocysteine is usually measured after fasting, so I wonder if it peaks day to day. [Edit: it appears to be fairly steady, actually.]
The interesting part is here: "The addition of aqCbl inhibited the Hcy-induced enhancement of SMC proliferation, collagen synthesis, and total protein synthesis".
QuotePatients with genetically impaired remethylation of Hcy caused by Cbl C, D, and E mutations involving the intracellular metabolism of Cbl can have normal plasma Cbl levels but still be hyperhomocysteinemic. Such patients, when treated with hydroxocobalamin, which is converted to aqCbl at physiological pH, improve clinically.
I have some hydroxocobalamin on order from RI (http://supplements.relentlessimprovement.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=relentless&StoreType=BtoC&Count1=765789210&Count2=682929635&Keyword=hydroxy&target=products.asp) and will give it a try once it arrives. It would be interesting if it turned out that Peyronies Disease sufferers have a cobalamin mutation.
s&s
I eat a bowl of cereal of multigrain cheerios everyday before work and I have to say I feel like crap within hours =P I wonder if it's because its pro-inflammatories or because of all the vitamins I most likely don't need.
Based on this study (http://www.wjgnet.com/1007-9327/15/5674.asp) I'm going to stop taking the niacinamide form of niacin. I'm sticking with nicotinic acid (100 mg 2x day) for the time being.
Just about to buy a lot of Vitamin E from iherb, just wondering what people think would be the best kind. What should I be looking for?
get the all natural type, not synthetic.
I recommend an E that has a good ratio of gamma to alpha tocopherol and has the tocotrienols too, like Jarrow FamilE (my first choice) or Gamma E or NOW Gamma E complex.
Hmm i think i saw that Now Gamma E on iherb so that might be a go.
Thing is I have seen some great posts on what to look for, what is important in a vit E supplement on this forum, but cannot find them with search function.
Isomer E from GNC is a good one, although I have my doubts that vitamin E actually helps. I know Dr. Levine states that there are no reliable studies to back up its efficacy and he doesn't recommend it. I've been on 400 to 800 IU (and at times 1200) for over a year and a half and it's definitely done nothing to relieve the pain or reverse the deformity. However, there's no way of knowing if perhaps things would have gotten even worse without it??? I just ran out last week and I've just about decided to say off for a while.
Fred
This study is why I take it:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10098440
Striking regression of subcutaneous fibrosis induced by high doses of gamma rays using a combination of pentoxifylline and alpha-tocopherol: an experimental study.
Whole foods has a big bottle of 365 pills that are 400mg each. It was not too much more expensive than everything else I've been paying for. I've heard from various places that the whole foods brand of supplements is one of the more reputable / dependable across the board.
Quote from: MikeSmith on April 25, 2010, 05:13:08 AM
Whole foods has a big bottle of 365 pills that are 400mg each. It was not too much more expensive than everything else I've been paying for. I've heard from various places that the whole foods brand of supplements is one of the more reputable / dependable across the board.
It's a crap shoot. How do you know how much gamma versus alpha tocopherol is in there?
Quote from: Fred22 on April 24, 2010, 03:56:42 PM
Isomer E from GNC is a good one, although I have my doubts that vitamin E actually helps. I know Dr. Levine states that there are no reliable studies to back up its efficacy and he doesn't recommend it. I've been on 400 to 800 IU (and at times 1200) for over a year and a half and it's definitely done nothing to relieve the pain or reverse the deformity. However, there's no way of knowing if perhaps things would have gotten even worse without it??? I just ran out last week and I've just about decided to say off for a while.
Fred
My experience was the same, I could not tell that it did anything for me. Like you, when the last bottle ran out, I didn't buy anymore. I cannot tell that anything has changed since I stopped taking it either.
Quote from: slowandsteady on April 26, 2010, 01:08:59 AM
Quote from: MikeSmith on April 25, 2010, 05:13:08 AM
Whole foods has a big bottle of 365 pills that are 400mg each. It was not too much more expensive than everything else I've been paying for. I've heard from various places that the whole foods brand of supplements is one of the more reputable / dependable across the board.
It's a crap shoot. How do you know how much gamma versus alpha tocopherol is in there?
oh it just says mixed...is that bad? Is one better than the other?
Quote from: MikeSmith on April 29, 2010, 12:07:22 PMoh it just says mixed...is that bad? Is one better than the other?
The issue is often confused in that when "vitamin E" is mentioned, only the alpha tocopherol component is meant, when in fact there are 4 tocopherols and 4 tocotrienols in the vitamin E family. Additionally, there is a synthetic form of alpha tocopherol (dl-alpha tocopheryl) that is different from the natural version of alpha, d-alpha tocopheryl. Many if not most vitamin E supplements use the synthetic form.
From "{gamma}-Tocopherol, the major form of vitamin E in the US diet, deserves more attention" (American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 74, No. 6, 714-722, December 2001 (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/74/6/714)):
Quote{gamma}-Tocopherol is the major form of vitamin E in many plant seeds and in the US diet, but has drawn little attention compared with {alpha}-tocopherol, the predominant form of vitamin E in tissues and the primary form in supplements. However, recent studies indicate that {gamma}-tocopherol may be important to human health and that it possesses unique features that distinguish it from {alpha}-tocopherol. {gamma}-Tocopherol appears to be a more effective trap for lipophilic electrophiles than is {alpha}-tocopherol. {gamma}-Tocopherol is well absorbed and accumulates to a significant degree in some human tissues; it is metabolized, however, largely to 2,7,8-trimethyl-2-(ß-carboxyethyl)-6-hydroxychroman ({gamma}-CEHC), which is mainly excreted in the urine. {gamma}-CEHC, but not the corresponding metabolite derived from {alpha}-tocopherol, has natriuretic activity that may be of physiologic importance. Both {gamma}-tocopherol and {gamma}-CEHC, but not {alpha}-tocopherol, inhibit cyclooxygenase activity and, thus, possess antiinflammatory properties. Some human and animal studies indicate that plasma concentrations of {gamma}-tocopherol are inversely associated with the incidence of cardiovascular disease and prostate cancer. These distinguishing features of {gamma}-tocopherol and its metabolite suggest that {gamma}-tocopherol may contribute significantly to human health in ways not recognized previously. This possibility should be further evaluated, especially considering that high doses of {alpha}-tocopherol deplete plasma and tissue {gamma}-tocopherol, in contrast with supplementation with {gamma}-tocopherol, which increases both. We review current information on the bioavailability, metabolism, chemistry, and nonantioxidant activities of {gamma}-tocopherol and epidemiologic data concerning the relation between {gamma}-tocopherol and cardiovascular disease and cancer.
These findings I feel are important in light of the epidemiological data that large doses of vitamin E can increase all cause mortality, such as this study (PMID 15537682 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15537682)), which concluded "High-dosage (> or =400 IU/d) vitamin E supplements may increase all-cause mortality and should be avoided".
For those taking larger doses of vitamin E long term, it would appear that the safest thing to do is to take a vitamin E supplement providing gamma in a good ratio to alpha (at least 5:1, but I'm not sure how large this ratio needs to be). Looking at iherb, I am uncomfortable with the NOW gamma E, which has closer to a 1.1:1 ratio. Jarrow gamma E and Carlson's gamma E might be a better bet at about a 6:1 ratio.
s&s
I have read many of the post regarding vitamin supplements and wanted recommendations on a good vitamin starter program with proposed daily dosages. On my current list are:
L-ARGININE 1000 mg
L-CARNITINE 500 mg
ALOE VERA 470 mg
Vitamin E 1000 IU
Any suggestions or alternative combinations are welcome.
Vitamin D3, capsules, and you might research Vitamin E on this forum and determine that 400IU of it is sufficient.
I would add fish oil to the list. I am also taking vitamin D since George999 talks so highly of it. You may want to search the forum for his posts, he has a vast knowledge of oral supplements. I have never taken aloe. Otherwise your list is good.
-Joe
I had my Vitamin D levels checked and they were normal... Does George999 suggest still taking Vitamin D even though one tests within range?
I don't want another pill to take if I don't have to...
SSmithe
How did you get this done?
Quote from: SSmithe on June 11, 2010, 04:22:51 AM
I had my Vitamin D levels checked
For $65, you can get this kit (http://www.zrtlab.com/vitamindcouncil/) (linked from the vitamin D council site). It comes with a finger lance and you put drops of blood on a test card and mail it back to ZRT labs.
Brooks Bro,
I went to an endocrinologist to get blood test done on Adrenals, Testosterone, Iron content (for hemachromatosis), etc... I had him add in B and D serum. If you have not already, I recommend it, as it is nice to be able to cross some items off your list so you can better focus on what counts.
I was normal for all things (while being on the low end of normal for Testosterone).
SSmithe
OK so I have a dilema I have been taking large amounts of Vitiman C 5000% for my septal peyronies which runs right above the entire length of my urethra its like a metsl cable in my penis. The problem is that I noticed it working in that I suppose the accidity was softenting and breaking the plauqe and everything was going well till I read that Vitamin c is bad for peyronies because it helps produce collagen which is what plauqe is mostly made of, however there are 3 types of collagen and I feel like its being oversimplified.
but then I read somewhere that vitamin c increases the qulity of collagen so your body uses less plauqe wheras if your collagen defficent your body will use whatever it can find resulting in exess plauqe of poor quality. So im at a cross roads because i noticed vitamin c helping but it could either make it worse or better.
Well, here's my personal opinion: 1) I have seen no convincing evidence that Vitamin C is helpful for Peyronie's. That does not mean that it is not helpful. It only means that I have not seen any real convincing evidence that it is. It *might* be helpful to some people and not others. 2) I really do NOT consider the whole argument about collagen applicable to Peyronie's. The problem of abnormal collagen deposition in the case of Peyronie's is due to metabolic issues. Supplements affecting collagen are not, in and of themselves, likely to make that problem better OR worse because of any effect they may have on collagen in my opinion. I believe that the whole issue of "collagen", like the issue of "circulation" is a canard. The real issues surrounding Peyronie's are things like inflammation and immune response. Things that aggravate inflammation can aggravate Peyronie's and things that lower inflammation levels can alleviate Peyronie's symptoms. Things that alter immune function can either aggravate or alleviate Peyronie's symptoms. I have NEVER seen any evidence that addressing either collagen or circulation issues has any effect on Peyronie's at all. Others here will stridently disagree, but this is, nevertheless my opinion. Disclaimer: I am not a doctor, but have been dealing with Peyronie's as a patient for around six years.
My advice: If Vitamin C seems to be helpful to you, keep taking it and don't pay a whole lot of attention to the collagen issue. IF you take lots of Vitamin C, make sure you are taking plenty of magnesium as well to help protect your kidneys from oxalates. On the other hand, if you want something that really works, try Pentoxifylline. There are a NUMBER of guys around here who will vouch for the effectiveness of Pentoxifylline. And there is some evidence that Pentoxifylline may work even better when taken concurrently with Alpha Tocopherol. Aside from that VED and Traction have shown good results around here over the long term for MANY guys.
I read on a post, or somewhere, that excessive use of Vit E. can lead to high blood pressure and other cardiovascular disease. Anyone heard of this?
Quote from: mlc on June 22, 2010, 10:28:17 AM
I read on a post, or somewhere, that excessive use of Vit E. can lead to high blood pressure and other cardiovascular disease. Anyone heard of this?
Most if not all of the harmful effects of Vitamin E are due to its suppression of Vitamin K. Simply taking Vitamin K along with Vitamin E can mitigate this problem to a large degree. I recommend that people taking large amounts of Vitamin E also supplement with Vitamin K to avoid Vitamin K issues. Lack of Vitamin K activity results in soft tissue calcification and thus hardening of the arteries among other things. It also leads to bone problems. - George
Just got an email from Puritans Pride...they're starting one of their big "3 for 1" sales today.
http://www.puritan.com/
of course, I just bought some stuff last week, but now that you mention Vitamin K, I might get some of that and some more L-argnine.
CF
George999, you have an incredible knowledge. Since there is a 3 for 1 sale at Puritan, what would you recommend that I should start with. I ran out of the 400 IU of Vit E. last night, and that prompted my search on the internet for solutions that lead me here. I take alot of vit. supplements as it is. What specifically should I be looking for to help with Peyronies Disease? I am taking Melaluca's Vit. D, calcium, joint help, vit c, and Melaluca's multi. (None of which was intended for Peyronies Disease. The Vit E. was all that I have been doing for that.) When I get home tonight I will look at the others. I would appreciate your take on what I am doing, right or wrong.
After some good advice from Brooksbro, I would like to find a good male sex specialist that know and can deal with Peyronies Disease. Anyone know of one in Utah or surrounding states. I have alot of airmiles with Southwest and Arizona, Nevada, California would not be bad trips.
Freckle, If you can do Southwest to San Francisco, Dr Lue would be your absolute best option. There is excellent public transit from the airport right to his office and back via BART rail and MUNI rail, no buses needed! From Salt Lake City you could almost do it in one day round trip or you could stay over a day or two and enjoy San Francisco. A number of us here will attest to Dr Lue's credentials when it comes to Peyronies. He is a world class expert.
As for the vitamin part, that gets very complex and personal. My recommendation would be to find a good naturopath, preferably one who practices with an MD or DO. They are really the experts at personalizing a vitamin routine. Otherwise, with Vitamin K, I would say to go by the label's recommendations. With Vitamin D, make sure you get tested. Vitamin D is a hormone, not a real vitamin. What you are taking is close to meaningless, what counts are your blood levels, thats what you want to get right. - George
Thanks George, I contacted you offline, but would like your opinion along with Brooksbro's on the use of the l-arginine, viagra, and pentox. My condition is that I have curvature, but no pain and no ED other than Peyronies Disease. Is it your opinion, like Brooksbro that the routine engorgement would help with the Peyronies Disease?
From a previous post, how do you feel about trazadone?
Quote from: freckle on June 23, 2010, 04:00:44 PM
Thanks George, I contacted you offline, but would like your opinion along with Brooksbro's on the use of the l-arginine, viagra, and pentox. My condition is that I have curvature, but no pain and no ED other than Peyronies Disease. Is it your opinion, like Brooksbro that the routine engorgement would help with the Peyronies Disease?
These three have pretty much been shown to be useful, most especially Pentoxifylline. Its a matter of trying stuff and seeing what works for you, but Pentox has been generally significantly more effective for more guys than any other oral treatment approach. I haven't used Trazadone so I can't really comment about it, perhaps someone here who has used it can chirp in on that. - George
George I want to take your advice and go to a naturopath. Can they tell blood levels of Vit D, testosterone, etc.? Until then, what dosage of Vit E., Vit. D, and Vit. K would you recommend? (I'm obviously not too acquainted with naturopathic medicine.)
Hello again, I should have asked where you get your vitamins. How about Puritan Pride? They are having a sale.
When it comes to naturopaths, a lot depends on the particular state and its regulations, since each state is different. You might check out http://www.functionalmedicine.org/ (http://www.functionalmedicine.org/) and/or http://www.naturopathic.org/ (http://www.naturopathic.org/) and see if there are any providers in your area. Another resource in this regard is http://www.lef.org/ (http://www.lef.org/). They can facilitate blood testing for many issues, but you really need an MD or naturopath to interpret the results. They also are a good source for supplements as is Puritan's Pride and http://www.iherb.com (http://www.iherb.com).
Thanks a lot, George. What vitamins and amounts to you recommend? I would actually like to get started on some before I hook up with the naturopath.
George,
Does Dr Lue phone consultations or is it in person only? I am still unable to find a urologist nearby that will prescribe Pentox.
Thanks.
Quote from: Trev on June 29, 2010, 09:45:29 PM
George,
Does Dr Lue phone consultations or is it in person only? I am still unable to find a urologist nearby that will prescribe Pentox.
Thanks.
Trev, As far as I know, you have to visit him in person at least once. You also need a referral attesting to the fact that you have been diagnosed with Peyronie's. From there on, if Dr Lue grants you a prescription for Pentox, which he almost always does, your local uro should be able to follow up and Dr Lue will continue to prescribe the Pentox in consultation with your local uro. As far as I know this is how it works. But if you are in a place where it is affordable to visit Dr Lue. He is a good choice. If you are on the east coast or in the mid-West, Dr Levine in Chicago might be a better choice. Very few doctors prescribe meds based on telephone consults. It is looked down upon in the profession and many doctors consider it a form of malpractice. - George
Quote from: Trev on June 08, 2010, 11:11:26 PM
I have read many of the post regarding vitamin supplements and wanted recommendations on a good vitamin starter program with proposed daily dosages. On my current list are:
L-ARGININE 1000 mg
L-CARNITINE 500 mg
ALOE VERA 470 mg
Vitamin E 1000 IU
Any suggestions or alternative combinations are welcome.
I will shortly have the acetly L-carnitine, L-arginine, Vit E., Vit D., Vit K. (I will be getting a blood test to see serum levels of Vit. D and testosterone specifically, ANYTHING ELSE RECOMMENDED?.
My question on this post, since most of the supplements increase blood flow and dialation, has anyone had the effects, or heard of the effects, of rosacea as a side effect of some of these supplements or meds? Rosacea is the red to purple capillaries in the nose and cheeks. I already have some on the side of my nose, and seen a lot of guys in their 50s and 60s get big noses from the rosacea.
hey thank you so much for such kind of information..I think aloe Vera 470mg is good.
Well I am always reasearching my but off for any sort of hope (check up my post on regeneration - oprah)
I been Actually getting good results beleive it or not from an Australian product called (Vegemite)
After finding some studies that B vitamins help with cystic fibrosis and removal of fibrosis in some way.
I new that Vegemite is one of the highest source of B vitamins in the world, (So I been starting to eat piles of it - going threw a few bottles of vegimite a week ) Every morning pilling heaps on it on toast.
I have been doing this for a few months now
And I seem to be getting good results,
I done some research regarding B vitamins being important in some form of removal of fiborisis
I new that one of the highest source of b vitamins is Vegemite.
So I been having piles of the stuff and seem to be having good results.
Just thought I'd post my findings as I seem to have had a semi erection in the mornings lately :)
I am still on my horney goat weed tablets which I have been taking for a while.
The new improvements I beleive are from vegemite - pile it on people tell me if its giving you guys the same results
cheers
Mark
Para-aminobenzoate, a substance akin to vitamin B-complex vitamins, has also been studied as a treatment for Peyronie's, but results were inconclusive.
Vegemite is one of the worlds richest sources of b vitamins. :) So I been eatin the stuff heaps and been getting results :) along with my horney goat weed daily pill.
Read more: Natural Cures for Peyronie's Disease | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5122406_natural-cures-peyronies-disease.html#ixzz12l77B01f
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Read more: Natural Cures for Peyronie's Disease | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/about_5122406_natural-cures-peyronies-disease.html#ixzz12l31bMW7
I am wondering weather we are concintrating to much on other vitamins and not on vitamin B enough?
Anyway tell me if any of you guys get results, as I am so I thought I'd drop in and post as I beeng getting semi erections in the mornin it is a great xmas present for me this has been happenin lately :)
Hi folks,
I went to see a naturopath/md this week who prescribed a lot of Vitamin E --2000 IU's to start, increasing to 3000 IU's after a week (or maybe a month--don't have it in front of me). I noticed Freckle quoting Trev below taking 1000.
I was really happy with this doctor's visit, even though he's had minimal experience treating Peyronie's. I've been seeing various specialist and I like my uro, but it was great to have a doc asking about the big picture and listening. He ordered a lot of blood work.
The main reservation I had was this Vitamin E prescription. I haven't noticed anyone here taking that much. He mentioned Dupuytren's so I wondered if 2000 I.U.'s is a typical prescription for that? I questioned him and told him most people on this forum seem to think Vitamin E doesn't help. He shrugged off the concern about heart problems. I do have fairly low blood pressure, so maybe it doesn't matter.
Any thoughts?
This is my first post. I keep intending to post my story... one of these days. I also don't know if anyone will see this on a fairly old thread. Please advise me if I'm doing this wrong.
Thanks.
Vitamin E is of virtually no use in treating Peyronie's. I took around 3,000IU for an extended period with no perceivable benefit. There are only two things that work well for Peyronie's. One is the prescription drug Pentoxifylline. The other is Ubiquinol. The big risk with Vitamin E is that it can dangerously cause a risk for bleeding unless you are taking Vitamin K concurrently. Vitamin K tends to minimize that risk. The blood tests are a good thing and can very likely turn up things that will be helpful, but Vitamin E for Peyronie's is the wrong track. It is not going to be significantly helpful over the long term. What I would suggest that you do is to pull off the information about Pentoxifylline from the resource section of this website and share it with your doctor. Naturopath types are generally more open to information and might very well be open to prescribing Pentoxifylline for you if he has a chance to see the research info. Pentoxifylline is very benign as drugs go and not very expensive and it is the number one best oral treatment for Peyronie's. The sooner you get on it the better off you will be. - George
Thanks George,
I'm already taking both Pentox and Ubiquinol 3x a day. I was just surprised by the Vitamin E prescription. He said that it was a bunch of different Vitamin E's--actually pretty expensive. He didn't say anything about Vitamin K. I'm just feeling my way along in terms of when to challenge a prescription. Seems a bit presumptuous especially when I'm swallowing a handful of pills every day without really knowing if any of them are doing any good. My uro was slow to get on board with Pentox--he just didn't know about it, although he studied under Dr. Lue and trusts him.
Any thoughts on SAM-e? I've been taking that too for mood disorder, though part of the attraction was the fine print mention of anti-fibrotic properties.
Anyway, thanks for responding.
SAM-e is certainly interesting. I have taken it before myself. Like a lot of things, it is perhaps a bit helpful for Peyronie's, but nothing like Pentox and Ubiquinol. But for other issues, I'm sure it IS useful. - George
PS - I'm glad you are on Pentox and Ubiquinol! Vitamin E has somewhat of a cult following among docs when it comes to Peyronie's. Its sort of the old standby remedy from the days when they had nothing else around. So it seems like it is the first thing they go for when it comes to treating Peyronie's. Younger and better informed docs usually will prescribe Potaba. The bleeding edge docs are on board with Pentox. Ubiquinol is still somewhat of a dark secret, but word will get out eventually.
I always felt like doctors who are STILL giving out vitamin E and sending men off with peyronies are kind of behind the times and just giving out something to keep sufferers happy so they feel like they are doing something/and or taking something for the condition. To not by now at least be up to date on some of this information in my opinion is kind of pathetic. I know not all doctors sit around and obsess about peyronies like we do on this forum, but they should be up to date with basic new treatments or know and have heard of treatments like pentox, verapamil injections, xiaflex etc...
Comebackid
A few months ago, I lost all interest in sex (my wife asks if I have just given up), even before my doctor and I agreed to stop topical testosterone. Was this from depression or something else? Different on-line depression screening exams showed different results (were they self-serving?). I've been taking SAM-e (now 3x per day) and Maca (50 mg 3x daily) for several weeks, and I can't tell that they are doing anything to boost my mood.
SAM-e should be spelled $AM-e, as in Micro$oft; 'cause it ain't cheap.
I hope to learn if a high prolactin level (hyperprolactinaemia) could be part of my troubles.
Quote from: KAC on January 10, 2011, 12:07:48 AM
Any thoughts on SAM-e? I've been taking that too for mood disorder, though part of the attraction was the fine print mention of anti-fibrotic properties.
Brooks,
It's been my experience that my sex drive can come and go and sometimes for no particular reason. The problem is that when it's gone, I get upset about it and that makes it worse. I don't think it's any secret that a lot of it is in our heads.
Also, and this is just my opinion, I think stopping HRT every once in a while and then starting again can kick start one's sex drive. Maybe take a couple of weeks off and then give it another shot along with some Viagra.
Good luck.
GS
Brooks, Have you EVER had your vitamin D levels checked? If not, it might be a good idea to get it done. - George
Not had it checked, yet. Taking 8,000 IU/day gel caps in divided doses.
Quote from: George999 on January 10, 2011, 11:45:56 AM
Brooks, Have you EVER had your vitamin D levels checked? If not, it might be a good idea to get it done. - George
Its not really safe to take over 5,000IU without checking it. - George
Wow im surprised by this section. Is it really possible to treat Peyronies Disease with vitamins alone?!
Quote from: BrooksBro on January 10, 2011, 06:31:00 AM
A few months ago, I lost all interest in sex (my wife asks if I have just given up), even before my doctor and I agreed to stop topical testosterone. Was this from depression or something else? Different on-line depression screening exams showed different results (were they self-serving?). I've been taking SAM-e (now 3x per day) and Maca (50 mg 3x daily) for several weeks, and I can't tell that they are doing anything to boost my mood.
SAM-e should be spelled $AM-e, as in Micro$oft; 'cause it ain't cheap.
I hope to learn if a high prolactin level (hyperprolactinaemia) could be part of my troubles.
Brooks,
While I use SAM-E for mood regulation-does not really lift me up but keeps me level, I find it
really diminishes my physical sensitivity and libido. After a couple of days of not using it (you may need more time off of it because of how long you have taken it-maybe not) my sensitivity and libido returns to how it was before.
Hey everyone,
Today I got a prerequisite for Vitamin D testing. I've been taking 5,000 UI's pretty much everyday for a couple months now with fat enriched foods. A couple things come to mind about getting the test done:
1. Should I stop taking the Vitamin D gel caps for a week or something before getting the test done?
2. Is there anything I should know before having the test done?
Thanks
Assuming that you are wanting to know where your levels are at with the 5,000IU per day, you should keep taking the 5,000IU per day right through your tests. If you were to stop for a week, it really wouldn't make a whole lot of difference, because the body store vitamin D and your levels would drift down very gradually if you stop. But stopping isn't necessary, because if you don't stop, you get a very accurate picture of where your levels are at with the 5,000IU per day. Once you get your numbers back, you will know whether you need to tweak your intake up or down to get yourself at an optimal level of 50-70ng/ml. Thats pretty much it as far as prep. Nothing else that I know of affects the vitamin D test. You want to avoid mass spec type testing if possible, it has a reputation for inaccurate results. DiaSorin testing equipment is reputed to provide the most accurate results. LabCorp uses the DiaSorin test. An increasing number of other labs do as well. Quest Labs uses mass spec and has a reputation for faulty results, beware. - George
Thanks so much George,
I value your imput alot and I know it comes from experience and wisdom.
The vitamin D test is being tested by the Alberta health services, here in Canada. I wonder what method they use? What is the name for the good method of testing? I hope it's not the mass spec method, or else I might have to pay for a better one through the internet.
Blood tests are pretty tightly regulated and because doing them requires very expensive equipment, blood testing labs are not willing to put their licenses in jeopardy by doing business across borders. So I doubt if you will have much luck getting reliable blood testing done online.
As far as I know there are ONLY two major test routes. The original and the best are both produced by DiaSorin. The original is DiaSorin RIA developed in 1985 and used by the pioneering Vitamin D researchers. The best is DiaSorin Liaison, a recently introduced product. The problem became that DiaSorin products use a patented method and are expensive. This led many labs to use a shortcut method, mass spectrometry. Mass spectrometry *can* be accurate, but accuracy depends completely on the skill of the lab technicians doing the analysis. The DiaSorin method avoids this by the fact that it is a closed box. You put the blood sample in and the machine reads out the results. Thus even a minimally trained employee will get accurate results running a DiaSorin test. This is why you want a DiaSorin test if you can achieve it.
Another issue you will face is that Health Canada is trying to limit Vitamin D testing right now as they don't think it is important enough to spend money on. And this is an issue for Canadian patients wanting to get their vitamin D levels optimal. I don't know what the local situation in Alberta is. You can always try and if they brush you off, look for alternatives.
One alternative, if it comes to that would be a more prevention oriented doctor. I will PM you with some suggestions. - George
Peyronies Disease features abnormal fibroblast (from wikipedia, a fibroblast is a type of cell that synthesizes the extracellular matrix and collagen) growth (for example, see PMID 11002396). Here's one reason vitamin K might have treatment applications for Peyronies Disease. In this study (PMID 17681015) about rheumatoid arthritis:
QuoteVitamin K(2) (menaquinone-4, MK-4) has been reported to induce apoptosis in hepatocellular carcinoma, leukemia and myelodysplastic syndrome cell lines. The effects of MK-4 on the development of arthritis have never been addressed thus far. In the present study, we investigated the effect of MK-4 upon the proliferation of rheumatoid synovial cells and the development of arthritis in collagen-induced arthritis. We analyzed the effect of MK-4 on the proliferation of fibroblast-like synoviocytes using the 3-(4,5-dimethylthiazol-2-yl)-2,5-diphenyltetrazolium bromide assay. The pro-apoptotic effect of MK-4 upon fibroblast-like synoviocytes was investigated with annexin V staining and DNA fragmentation and caspase 3/7 assays. Moreover, we analyzed the effect of MK-4 on the development of collagen-induced arthritis in female dark agouti rats. Our results indicated that MK-4 inhibited the proliferation of fibroblast-like synoviocytes and the development of collagen-induced arthritis in a dose-dependent manner. We conclude that MK-4 may represent a new agent for the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis in the setting of combination therapy with other disease-modifying antirheumatic drugs.
I have a full bottle of this stuff too. I bought it to counter balance the magnesium, which depletes Vit K. How much Vit K would one have to take? I don't see how this could help someone with Peyronies Disease since the incorrect proliferated phase of wound healing has already been established. Maybe it would be effective after something like Xiaflex has rid of the tissue and the rebuilding of new tissue begins.
I really don't know how much would be best to take, since it's just speculation at this point. Where had you heard about vitamin k depleting magnesium?
I've had some calcification of my heel due to plantar fasciitis, and vitamin k has been a great relief for that (I've been taking about 400 mcg of the k2-mk7 and some mk4 on occasion too).
Certainly Vitamin E can deplete Vitamin K, I haven't heard that to be true of Magnesium. In any case, I really don't think dose itself is critical as I don't think there is any such thing as a Vitamin K overdose. The Japanese consume a lot of natto which is rich in Vitamin K and have no problems with that. - George
ive been takin bout 600 - 1000 iu of vit e for awhile now and is that a bad thing; i think i ve read that it will drain other vitamins like k. also do i want to be supplementing vit d? will d help with the scar tissue. i already take the other good supplements but feel my vit e may b a negative and does vit e make a diff in erection speed.
Any nutrient that one takes in large amounts will tend to deplete other nutrients in the body. Only Pentoxifylline, CoQ10 and ALC have been shown to cause a decrease in scar tissue in research studies. Nothing else. - George
Goerge,
Isn't there research supporting ALC too?
GoodLuck
Quote from: goodluck on September 10, 2011, 10:19:49 PM
Goerge,
Isn't there research supporting ALC too?
GoodLuck
Yes, actually you are correct on that. I didn't believe it produced resolution of scar tissue, but now that I looked it up, I see that it did. I will go back and take care of that. Thanks! - George
thanks im doing bout 400 mg of ubiniquinol and 2 gms of acetyl carnitine a day now along with a multi
Pantothenic Acid and Pantethine might be interesting sups to experiment with. "Massive" doses of Pantothenic Acid have been shown to be safe and beneficial in treating Lupus, a classic ideopathic, inflammatory, auto-immune type disease. B5 has also been found helpful in treating diabetic neuropathy. Typical doses being in the 10-15g range. The way it works is that it jump starts the body's production of Co-enzyme A. Co-enzyme A plays several very important roles in human metabolism.
First of all, it facilitates the ability of mitochondria to burn fat as an alternative or supplement to glucose. In fact, when for whatever reason one starts burning fat in quantity, a B5 deficiency can develop as a result. So if, for whatever reason, cellular mitochondria are in distress for lack of glucose, they can burn fat as an alternative IF there is a sufficient supply of Co-enzyme A. There will be a sufficient supply of Co-A IF there is a sufficient supply of B5. What is ALSO necessary to transport Co-A into the cell is Acetyl Carnitine. Does that ring a bell? So B5 *might* be a part of the ALC equation. For more on all of this you can grok the above substances on Wikipedia and learn more.
Secondly, Co-A is essential to the body's production of endogenous steroids. Steroids are essential to the healthy functioning of the immune system. They tend to dampen immune response and product tissue from inappropriate immune attack. So, if you are low on B5, that can cause you to be deficient in Co-A leading to steroid deficiency, and in fact, eventually even perhaps causing lowered testosterone levels.
So especially if you are taking ALC, you might want to consider giving B5 a shot for a few months and seeing what effect it has. - George
This is very interesting. I know the adrenal glands use alot of B5 and it is recomened for those with adrenal insuficientcy. Typically in the 1 to 1.5 g/day range. I do know, like ALC, it can cause insomnia in some people if taken too late in the day. Just a warning to those who may wish to experiment with this.
Thanks George.
A recent study revealed interesting things about Vitamin D supplementation. Anyone who feels that increased Testosterone levels might have a beneficial effect on Peyronie's would be interested in the results of this study.
Quote from: PubMed
Horm Metab Res. 2011 Mar;43(3):223-5. Epub 2010 Dec 10.
Effect of vitamin D supplementation on testosterone levels in men.
Pilz S, Frisch S, Koertke H, Kuhn J, Dreier J, Obermayer-Pietsch B, Wehr E, Zittermann A.
Source
Department of Internal Medicine, Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Medical University of Graz, Austria.
Abstract
The male reproductive tract has been identified as a target tissue for vitamin D, and previous data suggest an association of 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] with testosterone levels in men. We therefore aimed to evaluate whether vitamin D supplementation influences testosterone levels in men. Healthy overweight men undergoing a weight reduction program who participated in a randomized controlled trial were analyzed for testosterone levels. The entire study included 200 nondiabetic subjects, of whom 165 participants (54 men) completed the trial. Participants received either 83 μg (3,332 IU) vitamin D daily for 1 year (n = 31) or placebo (n =2 3). Initial 25(OH)D concentrations were in the deficiency range (< 50 nmol/l) and testosterone values were at the lower end of the reference range (9.09-55.28 nmol/l for males aged 20-49 years) in both groups. Mean circulating 25(OH)D concentrations increased significantly by 53.5 nmol/l in the vitamin D group, but remained almost constant in the placebo group. Compared to baseline values, a significant increase in total testosterone levels (from 10.7 ± 3.9 nmol/l to 13.4 ± 4.7 nmol/l; p < 0.001), bioactive testosterone (from 5.21 ± 1.87 nmol/l to 6.25 ± 2.01 nmol/l; p = 0.001), and free testosterone levels (from 0.222 ± 0.080 nmol/l to 0.267 ± 0.087 nmol/l; p = 0.001) were observed in the vitamin D supplemented group. By contrast, there was no significant change in any testosterone measure in the placebo group. Our results suggest that vitamin D supplementation might increase testosterone levels. Further randomized controlled trials are warranted to confirm this hypothesis.
© Georg Thieme Verlag KG Stuttgart · New York.
PMID:
21154195
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
I am on a vitamin D supplement 5000iu/day and I can honestly say that it makes you feel better and stronger. Great vitamin.
Viatmin D is good? You will not be dissapointed!
Fubar
I'm taking some Vitamine K2 ( MK-7 90 mcg/day ) with Vit D3. Any informations about MK-7?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_K)
Vitamin D was misclassified when discovered and is actually a hormone. You should get you levels measured every year and adjust your dose accordingly. Theortically you don't need as much in the summer as you will get more sun exposure.
Most labs have a range of 30-80. Most ND's and progressive MD's will tell you to keep your level over 50.
It is deffinately good for your immune system. Since I have supplemented with it I get much fewer colds. When I do they are not so severe.
Can you take too much??? I don't know, but I have read that too much can casue calcium to be deposited in soft tissue.
This is something Peyronies people should be sensitive to.
I take vit D but I also take K2 to help prevent calcium from being pulled from the bones and deposited in soft tissue.
Good Luck.
There are potential cardio issues from too much Vitamin D. Long term 100ng/ml is the upper safe limit. Up to 200ng/ml *likely* won't hurt you short term. But anyone taking more than 1000IU needs to get their levels checked every 6 months or so. Reason? 1) Your fat can suck up vitamin D to a certain extant and when your body has a full store your levels can go up suddenly to dangerous levels. 2) I your inflammation levels go down (good thing), your vitamin D levels *will* go up as a result (NOT a good thing if they get too high as a result). My wife was taking 6000IU for a couple of years which gave her a very stable 50ng/ml ... perfect. Then suddenly her blood levels shot up to 160ng/ml. She is now taking 1000IU and that is working well for her. Things will probably be pretty stable for her from now on. But I would assert that everyone should really have vitamin D levels checked at least annually. It should be a routine lab test. - George
George,
After reading your post, I went to the internet for additional info; and as is usually the case, you are right. I have been taking 2000IU in the summer and 4000IU in the winter. I think I will cut both in half.
As to DHEA, I have BPH and understand DHEA is not good for an enlarged prostate. Do you agree?
GS
Quote from: GS on January 18, 2012, 03:47:50 PM
As to DHEA, I have BPH and understand DHEA is not good for an enlarged prostate. Do you agree?
Actually, I don't really know about that one. The big huge caveat with DHEA is your PSA levels. If they are on the high side, don't do DHEA. If they go up significantly while you are taking DHEA, be very careful because IF you have a hidden prostate cancer going on, DHEA *can* and likely *will* activate it, which is not what you want to happen. I really would emphasize that with both vitamin D and DHEA it is important to do it under the care of a physician who can make sure that appropriate lab tests are done to optimize results and minimize the risks. - George
Quote from: LauRenT on January 15, 2012, 04:00:56 PM
I'm taking some Vitamine K2 ( MK-7 90 mcg/day ) with Vit D3. Any informations about MK-7?
I've been taking 800 mcg/day for my plantar fasciitis, and it's really helped with the pain.
Hey Ive been taking Vitamin e 1000iu synthetic, and have been noticing a great increase in erection strength and was wondering if this could potentially be dangerous and make my condtion worse?
Firmer, harder erections means you are improving blood flow. This is a good thing as good blood flow is essential for good penile health.
So no, you won't run the risk of making anything worse.
The risk would be:
http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/11/vitamin-e-may-increase-prostate-cancer-risk-study-says/ (http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/11/vitamin-e-may-increase-prostate-cancer-risk-study-says/)
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/health/synthetic-vitamin-e-linked-to-higher-prostate-cancer-risk-63373.html (http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/health/synthetic-vitamin-e-linked-to-higher-prostate-cancer-risk-63373.html)
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/11/18/dangers-of-vitamins.aspx (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/11/18/dangers-of-vitamins.aspx)
http://www.lef.org/featured-articles/INFEML_Rebuttal_E_1018.htm (http://www.lef.org/featured-articles/INFEML_Rebuttal_E_1018.htm)
- George
Since vitamin e is helping, is this a greater sign that I have Peyronies :((
What is your daily dosage of Vit K2?
thanks
Dio:
In my case it was 90 mcg per day still 1 month and now i'm with 120 mcg/day ( Vit k2, MK-7 ).
Sorry mistake now i'm with 135 mcg/day
"Recommended amounts
The U.S. Dietary Reference Intake (DRI) for an Adequate Intake (AI) of vitamin K for a 25-year old male is 120 micrograms/day. The Adequate Intake (AI) for adult women is 90 micrograms/day, for infants is 10–20 micrograms/day, for children and adolescents 15–100 micrograms/day."
WIKI
Quote from: LauRenT on February 22, 2012, 10:14:31 AM
Sorry mistake now i'm with 135 mcg/day
"Recommended amounts
The U.S. Dietary Reference Intake (DRI) for an Adequate Intake (AI) of vitamin K for a 25-year old male is 120 micrograms/day. The Adequate Intake (AI) for adult women is 90 micrograms/day, for infants is 10–20 micrograms/day, for children and adolescents 15–100 micrograms/day."
WIKI
thanks..
Saw this article online, to much vitamin A can lead to liver fibrosis, I know people who take multiple vitamins loaded with vitamin C and an extra chewable vitamin C, looks like this could be bad for you.
http://health.msn.com/healthy-living/popular-but-dangerous-3-vitamins-that-can-hurt-you
Interesting article.
Just passed a 2 weeks flue with overdose of vitamin C.
Now I understand that the overdose just going out without doing nothing.
James
Just to add some balance here.
Vitamin E - Studies finding problems with vitamin E have all used synthetic Alpha Tocopherol, NOT natural vitamin E containing a balanced mixture of toco's. Vitamin advocates have long openly speculated that synthetic Alpha Tocopherol can be toxic. With Vitamin E the different toco's balance each other out and too much of one toco is a bad strategy from a health perspective. The prostate, for example, depends on a sufficient supply of Gama Tocopherol. Since Alpha Tocopherol and Gamma Tocopherol compete in the body, flooding the body with Alpha Tocopherol can cause a deficiency of Gamma Tocopherol which is a necessary anti-oxidant for healthy kidney function. Vitamin E also marginalizes Vitamin K so that any large amount of Vitamin E can cause Vitamin K deficiency which can, in turn, cause dangerous cardio vascular problems.
Vitamin A - My take on Vitamin A is that it is just plain toxic. Most Americans get far too much Vitamin A as it is. It should ONLY be taken under doctor supervision. Too much of it can be deadly. Reasonable amounts of Carotene are a much better choice and NEVER take just Beta Carotene. It should always be mixed Carotenes to avoid a similar problem as with Alpha Tocopherol.
Vitamin C - Vitamin C taken in large amounts tends to simply flood out through the kidneys. Vitamin C in the body can produce oxalic acid, which in turn can cause kidney stones. Magnesium tends to prevent oxalate type kidney stones. Thus it is a good idea to always take a sufficient amount of magnesium with Vitamin C. It is also a good idea to take time release Vitamin C formulas to avoid saturating the stomach and kidneys with Vitamin C. Excessive amounts of Vitamin C in the presence of fat in the stomach can cause stomach cancer.
- George
George
Your knowledge is amazing.
I have a dumb question: Is the Carotene the vitamine in carrot? If I eat fresh carrot, it has enough Carotene in it?
James
Quote from: james1947 on March 02, 2012, 09:21:38 PM
George
Your knowledge is amazing.
I have a dumb question: Is the Carotene the vitamine in carrot? If I eat fresh carrot, it has enough Carotene in it?
James
Yes, Carotene is one of the vitamins in carrots. Maybe you get enough from fresh carrots and maybe not. Food quality varies and individuals are different in their nutritional needs. More -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carotene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carotene)
I have made a compilation regarding benefits, side effects and dossage of Vitamins, attached as PDF. The information is from the Internet.
Some of the vitamins are dangerous if overdosed. I am proposing to people that are taking vitamins to read the relevant paragraph.
James
Thank you!
slowandsteady
Long time ago you have stated you will give a try to hydroxocobalamin.
You have try it? Had some positive (or negative) results?
James
Nothing noticeable. I think it's a nice form of B12, but didn't find it had any particular effect on Peyronies Disease.
It is a vitamin?
I have to say, personally, I see Homocysteine more as a marker than as a causal factor. Therefore, unless you are actually getting it down by way of the actual causal factor, you are probably wasting your time. Just addressing the marker itself may not actually achieve a whole lot. I know I am up against LEF on this, but they also cite elevated fibrinogen levels as a risk factor and suggest use of nattokinase to lower them. Certainly elevated fibrinogen, unlike homocysteine, is a PROVEN risk factor on its own. But why not just lower blood sugar and insulin levels? That will wipe out a whole raft of risk factors and certainly among those will lower fibrinogen levels, most likely down into the normal range. So I would take a more Functional Medicine approach and look for the REAL ROOT of the problem rather than trying to prune all the branches issue by issue and symptom by symptom. - George
QuoteHYDROXOCOBALAMIN (hye drox oh koe BAL a min) is a form of vitamin B12. Vitamin B12 helps the growth of healthy blood cells, nerve cells, and proteins in the body. It also helps with the metabolism of fats and carbohydrates. This medicine is used to treat people with low levels of vitamin B12 or those who can not absorb vitamin B12. It also helps with the metabolism of fats and carbohydrates. It is also used as an antidote to treat cyanide poisoning.
My question is how it will help with Peyronie's? I didn't read posts that are stating vitamin B12 as helping for Peyronie's.
James
I too have not read anything that says B12 will help with Peyronies. If your B12 is low you will be very fatigued.
If you did want to supplement B12 I have read the better form is the Methylcobalamin. It is reduced so your body has less work to do to use it.
Some people have trouble converting the cobalamin form to the more usefull methyl form.
Jarrow makes a nice sublingual form of this in 5000 mg tablets. I brake them up and take 1/4 tab per week just as insurance.
George, just wondering where the info on Vit C and fat in the stomach causing stomach cancer. I have not heard that link.
Phil, I wish I could tell you. I read through a whole lot of stuff and that actually just came out of my memory bank from something I had previously read. It was not something of enough interest to me to fully document it, so I didn't record where I found it at. I always remember it though, because I, myself, take vitamin C and ever since reading that, I use time-release C and I take it just before bed time so I have as little food as possible in my stomach. At this point I am following the "eat early, eat often" strategy, so even at late night I have some food in my stomach, but I try to work around that risk (which is not really substantial, to be honest), but I still try to avoid it as much as I can. If I need to take more vitamin C than that for some reason, I just make sure I take the time release kind so as not to flood my stomach with ascorbic acid while there is food in it. - George
PS - Well, with a little sleuthing, I actually came up with the story. It is from way back in 2007. No wonder I don't remember where or when. Here's a link: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/81612.php (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/81612.php)
I came across this article while reading newses on yahoo.
Many contradinctions, I can't see anything conclusive.
James
Vitamins and Supplements: Do They Work?
Vitamins and dietary supplements are big--more than 110 million Americans forked over a collective $28 billion in 2010 on little bottles of would-be health magic. Research is unclear, however, on whether shoring up your diet with extra vitamins, minerals, and other supplements helps or hurts--in the short run or in reaching for the century mark.
For more than a decade, for example, researchers followed more than 35,000 men enrolled in SELECT, a clinical trial designed to see whether taking selenium and vitamin E might help prevent prostate cancer. In 2008, study participants received phone calls and letters: Stop the pills. Not only was the answer "no," but vitamin E apparently increased the chance of prostate cancer, if very slightly, and selenium seemed to do the same to diabetes risk. Later the same year, researchers from the Physicians' Health Study-II reported that neither vitamin E nor vitamin C reduced the chances of major cardiovascular problems or cancer as hoped.
That so many people seem to believe they need to boost their intake of vitamins and supplements is a triumph of marketing. Most Americans are well-nourished (besides being amply fed). Because much of our food is fortified with nutrients, once-common deficiency diseases such as scurvy and rickets, caused by inadequate vitamin C and D, respectively, have nearly disappeared in this and other developed countries. Researchers generally believe that with a few exceptions, like pregnant women or the elderly, most people don't need supplements. Over the 22-year course of the Iowa Women's Health Study, supplemental vitamin B6, folic acid, iron, magnesium, and zinc were associated with a slightly higher risk of premature death, copper to an 18 percent increased risk. Findings were published last year in the Archives of Internal Medicine. The study authors highlighted concerns about the long-term use of supplements and vitamins among those who do not have severe nutritional deficiencies. The pills, they concluded, are best used when recommended by doctors--not for general prevention.
A 2009 editorial in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute, meanwhile, warned that most vitamin studies show no cancer benefits, and that some found unexpected harm. Two studies of supplemental beta carotene, for example, found higher lung cancer rates, and folic acid research suggested a higher risk of colon polyps among those taking supplements than among those in a placebo group.
Still, some researchers maintain that the diets of many Americans fall somewhat short on certain key nutrients--not enough to threaten a return of those debilitating deficiency diseases, but perhaps enough to call for a little extra help. What follows is the current thinking--pro and con--on popular key supplements that have been well-studied.
Multivitamins. The U.S. Preventive Services Task Force neither recommends nor advises against multivitamins (or other supplements) for preventing cancer or cardiovascular disease. Yet many researchers say a multivitamin has a role as "a very inexpensive insurance policy," says David Schardt, senior nutritionist at the Center for Science in the Public Interest, a nutrition advocacy group in Washington, D.C. There's no need for anything fancy that claims "heart health" or "prostate health" benefits, he says; an inexpensive, basic brand is fine. In 2008, Harvard Men's Health Watch newsletter editor Harvey Simon recommended against multivitamins. His chief worry was that on top of already fortified foods, the folate in a multi could spur cancer. But a study since then showed that cancer was not increased in women at risk for heart problems who were given folic acid supplements. Simon is now less concerned about breast cancer risk, but prostate cancer still worries him.
[See: Popular but Dangerous: 3 Vitamins That Can Hurt You]
Calcium and vitamin D. Thumbs up. Extra calcium to protect bone health is safe and routinely prescribed for adults who get too little from food. In one study, men who consumed the most calcium (about 2,000 mg. a day) were 25 percent less likely to die over the next decade than their peers who got the least, according to findings published in 2010 in the American Journal of Epidemiology. The Iowa Women's Health Study also found that calcium supplements were associated with reduced risk of death over nearly two decades.
And consensus is building that Americans need more vitamin D to promote calcium uptake. It is produced by sun-exposed skin and is difficult to get from unfortified foods--fatty fish is the only major food source. Studies suggest vitamin D also may help fend off cancer and ward off infections. Still, no large-scale randomized controlled clinical trials prove vitamin D supplements offer benefits beyond bone health. Researchers are hungry for more evidence.
In 2010, the Institute of Medicine released new recommendations for daily calcium and vitamin D intake. Between 600 and 4,000 international units of vitamin D are advised, depending on age and gender, and between 700 and 2,500 milligrams of calcium.
[See: 4 Herbal Supplements Your Doctor Hates]
Fish oil. New findings are at odds with past evidence for the worth of the omega-3 fatty acids in fish oil, especially for heart-related conditions. An April analysis published in the Archives of Internal Medicine found that fish oil may not do much to ward off heart attacks and strokes in people who already have heart disease. Those taking fatty acid pills had about the same rates of heart disease, death from heart attacks, congestive heart failure, and stroke as those on placebo pills. But the findings don't necessarily mean that fish oil supplements are useless in heart patients. The study participants were all taking statins, powerful cholesterol-lowering medications, which could have trumped any benefits from fish oil.
The American Heart Association continues to recommend fish oil supplements for those at high risk of a heart attack. Simon, no fan of nutrients in pill form, says that, for those with heart risks who don't eat fatty fish like tuna and salmon twice a week, taking 1,000 mg or so is a good idea.
[See: Greek Yogurt Vs. Regular Yogurt: Which Is More Healthful?]
Antioxidants. The glowing promise of antioxidants remains elusive. These substances, among them selenium and vitamins A, C, and E, are believed to help sop up molecules called free radicals. These react with other molecules in the body and promote oxidative damage--another name for cellular wear and tear. "There's a lot of data supporting the idea that oxidation, over time, has a role in chronic illnesses," says J. Michael Gaziano, a chronic disease epidemiologist with Brigham and Women's Hospital and coauthor of the Physicians' Health Study-II papers.
Many observational studies suggest that people who gobble antioxidant-laden fruits and veggies or supplements have a reduced risk of some forms of heart disease and cancer. Most clinical trials, however, do not support this. Some research, in fact, has shown that supplemental vitamin E may actually increase the risk of lung cancer among smokers, as has been found with beta carotene, as noted above. Vitamin E may do the same. And cancer patients shouldn't add more vitamin C than the amount in a multi; research suggests that too much of the vitamin helps cancer cells withstand treatment.
Researchers are still studying whether supplemental antioxidants might slow the progression of age-related macular degeneration and perhaps prevent noise-related hearing loss. But "no doctor would recommend them for the prevention of cancer, of cardiovascular disease, or of dementia," says Simon.
What about you? Nutritional profiles are not all the same. Recommended intake varies by age, gender, and even race. And genetic differences mean everyone utilizes or responds to vitamins differently, says K. Simon Yeung, a research pharmacist in the Integrative Medicine Service at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center. Diet preferences, such as a low-fat or vegetarian regimen, will alter the mix of nutrients taken in. Moreover, lab tests that analyze the nutrients in your system and indicate which ones might need boosting or trimming are, with a few exceptions, not readily available and not often performed. "You can get your cholesterol checked, but not your niacin levels," says Thomson. However, keeping tabs on your dining habits for a few days with SuperTracker, a U.S. Department of Agriculture tool, will give you a sense of whether you're on the right course. (It helps you plan, analyze, and track your diet and physical activity.)
Alice Lichtenstein, a professor of nutrition science and policy at Tufts University's Friedman School of Nutrition, worries that supplements give Americans license to continue their unhealthful ways so long as they pop a pill after the steak and hot fudge sundae. A balanced diet is still the best source of nutrients. Adding supplements--or fruits and veggies, for that matter--to a high-calorie diet is not going to work magic. Good health begins with physical activity and a balanced diet that is heavy on fruits, veggies, whole grains, "good" fats, and fish and light on red meat, "bad" fats, and processed food--and not too high in calories. "Nature," says Lichtenfeld, "is probably better than our manufacturers."
Updated on 5/9/2012: This story was originally published on Dec. 9, 2008. It has been updated.
There is much worthwhile information in that quote. I would add a couple of points.
1) The most important thing to take away from all of the debate over supplements is that supplements DO NOT fix an unhealthy diet and/or lifestyle. They will IN NO WAY make up for those factors.
2) Secondly, it is very important to have your blood tested for levels of key nutrients in order to KNOW what deficiencies, if any, you might have.
3) You have to understand that vitamins and supplements CAN CREATE DEFICIENCIES by depleting other vitamins and/or nutrients. One vitamin will deplete another. That is why you ALWAYS have to take vitamin K with vitamin E, because vitamin E will counteract vitamin K, which is why people taking large doses of vitamin E often encounter bleeding problems AND cardiovascular problems. That is also why you have to take a NATURAL, BALANCED form of vitamin E, because the Alpha Tocopherol component of vitamin E will DEPLETE the Gama Tocopherol component of vitamin E, which is why guys taking synthetic Alpha Tocopherol in isolation are ASKING for PROSTATE CANCER. Extended periods of LOW GAMMA TOCOPHEROL LEVELS are a breeding ground for prostate cancer. I could give numerous examples of how other vitamins, minerals, supplements, etc can kill you if you don't use them correctly. If in doubt, consult an expert such as a naturopathic doctor who understands the synergies between various supplements.
4) A fair amount of vitamins and supplements are compounded in ways that make them non-absorbable and thus totally ineffective. You need to no the difference between oil/fat based nutrients and water based nutrients and make sure you get them in optimal packaging and delivery systems or you are just throwing your money away.
5) A lot of research studies are conducted in ways that are so biased, they are guaranteed to come up with the desired result. You have to look at HOW the study is conducted and WHAT TYPES of supplements were used and in WHAT surrounding nutritional environment they were used in order to make sense of the study. This is why one study often seems to negate another.
- George
Just an other article regarding the importance of Vitamin D
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/08/17/benefits-vitamin-d-weigh-less-smile-more/
In the article is not written which food contains Vitamin D and I don't understand also the sentence bellow:
Quoteobese women who were put on a 15-week diet and took 1,200 milligrams of calcium a day lost six times more weight than women who followed the diet alone
Is calcium increasing Vitamin D in our body?
If calcium bad for Peyronies, how we will increase the vitamin D level?
James
Quote from: james1947 on August 19, 2012, 12:27:07 PM
In the article is not written which food contains Vitamin D and I don't understand also the sentence bellow:
Fatty fish contains small amounts of vitamin D as do vitamin D fortified foods. But the ONLY way to get meaningful amounts of vitamin D is through carefully measured SUMMER sun exposure and/or vitamin D supplements.
Quoteobese women who were put on a 15-week diet and took 1,200 milligrams of calcium a day lost six times more weight than women who followed the diet alone
Quote from: james1947 on August 19, 2012, 12:27:07 PM
Is calcium increasing Vitamin D in our body?
I doubt it. More likely Calcium, by virtue of its own effects, also results in weight loss. I took Vitamin D myself for a period of years, meticulously measuring blood level every three or four months and saw no blood level changes during a time I was adding and removing other supplements INCLUDING Calcium.
Quote from: james1947 on August 19, 2012, 12:27:07 PM
If calcium bad for Peyronies, how we will increase the vitamin D level?James
There is absolutely no evidence that Calcium is "bad" for Peyronie's. That is simply speculation on the part of some. It is like saying that water is bad for people whose body retains water when in fact water retention is caused, in part, by lack of sufficient water. People who use simplistic reasoning often arrive at the wrong conclusion. Only controlled unbiased research can inform us as to whether something like Calcium is beneficial or harmful in terms of Peyronie's or any other malady.
- George
Quote from: George999 on August 19, 2012, 03:10:27 PMBut the ONLY way to get meaningful amounts of vitamin D is through carefully measured SUMMER sun exposure and/or vitamin D supplements.
Completely anecdotally, I've had a few people tell me that they've noticed the years they get outside and get plenty of good sun exposure during the summer months, those are the years they barely get sick during the winter.
QuoteIt is like saying that water is bad for people whose body retains water when in fact water retention is caused, in part, by lack of sufficient water. People who use simplistic reasoning often arrive at the wrong conclusion.
"For every complex problem there is a solution that is neat, plausible, and wrong." - H.L. Mencken
George, thanks for the clarifications.
Swolf, thanks for the remark regarding sun exposure.
My next question is, how much skin should be exposed to the sun to get increases vitamin D level.
I am living now in a 12 months a year summer place, but my skin will burn if it exposed to the sun for more than 15 minutes if not using sun block. Is the sun effective to get the vitamin D early in the morning and late afternoon? The only time I can expose my skin to the sun for longer than 15 minutes.
James
If you have good sun exposure in mid day, 15min is MORE than enough. With plenty of UVB the skin can manufacture Vitamin D3 rapidly and in large volume. In fact, its a good idea to use a timer and get full back exposure. 10min 2 or 3 times a week should be very adequate. You will also find that as your Vitamin D levels rise, your susceptibility to burning may actually decrease. - George
Quote from: james1947 on August 19, 2012, 06:11:57 PM
George, thanks for the clarifications.
Swolf, thanks for the remark regarding sun exposure.
My next question is, how much skin should be exposed to the sun to get increases vitamin D level.
I am living now in a 12 months a year summer place, but my skin will burn if it exposed to the sun for more than 15 minutes if not using sun block. Is the sun effective to get the vitamin D early in the morning and late afternoon? The only time I can expose my skin to the sun for longer than 15 minutes.
James
Thanks George
James
George certainly knows what he's talking about when it comes to vitamins. Nowadays I supplement vitamin D from time to time and make sure that I get out in the sun on the rare occasion that it shows itself :). For many a year, I really didn't get some sun at all, was very pale and as not many foods here are fortified with vitamin D I dread to think what my levels were.
My understanding on Vitamin D is that the best way to get it is via the sun. In fact I remember reading a few years ago that California had higher incidences of skin cancer than other parts of the US but far lower numbers of many other cancers and it was thought this might well be related to Vitamin D produced by the sun.
I'm new to all of this and have been taking CoQ10 complete with Bioperine in addition to Acetyl L-Carnitine and L-Arginine. I now wonder if Bioperine could be messing with the other substances since I've heard it is unpredictable.
Apart from that I'm taking Vitamin E, Vitamin D with calcium and magnesium, garlic and Omega 3. I think I'll add Vitamin K now I know more and I may start eating Marmite for Vitamin B (http://www.marmite.com/love/nutrition/b-vitamins.html), which is similar to Vegemite mentioned earlier. I'll also look into Cur cumin. One point bugging me is the question of vitamin quality i.e is the cheap stuff found at the supermarket junk or is the crazy priced stuff at the health store just a ripoff? Could we be doing it all with a multivitamin?
I am throwing the kitchen sink at this because of the apparent difficulty in getting a doctor to prescribe Pentox in the UK. They want to take a wait and see approach which probably sounds very reasonable when it's not your problem...
ashtown
I am not a specialist on vitamins, on this subject George is a real expert as Newguy has written.
I strongly agree with you that:
Quotewait and see approach which probably sounds very reasonable when it's not your problem...
The sad thing is that most of the doctors today are like that.
James
On this whole question of vitamin E I had a quick look at the back of a bottle yesterday that I bought from a supermarket listed as 250IU per tablet and says not to take more than one a day. Looking closer it said this amount already represented more than 15 times our daily requirement, which already seems pretty excessive considering how much we are likely to obtain in our normal diet.
Given the very limited evidence we have that Vitamin E helps Peyronies Disease in any way at all I think caution should be urged in this instance and I cannot understand why some people are taking so much. Trying to fix Peyronies Disease with something that may cause prostrate cancer or other serious problems seems counter productive. http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/press_releases/2004/11_10_04.html
I would not take vitamin E for Peyronie's. But only because vitamin E is not effective, or at least not nearly as effective as other options. Having said that, there was a day when things like vitamin E were all we had. I, personally, used huge amounts of it (close to 3000IU per day for a month or more) without problems. But I did that safely by 1) taking a NATURAL vitamin E, not the cheap synthetic stuff that has been used in EVERY study that demonstrated serious side effects, 2) taking a full spectrum vitamin E to prevent the depletion of specific toco's in my body which WILL cause serious side effects, like cancer and potentially other serious diseases, and 3) taking vitamin K along with the vitamin E to prevent depletion of vitamin K in my body which WILL cause serious side effects, including things like catastrophic bleeding and cardio-vascular disease. The problem with MOST research done on supplements is that it is invariably done using cheap synthetic knock offs AND it is done in ways that disrupt the body's normal balance of nutrients. It is also usually paid for by institutions that have a serious conflict of interest when it comes to testing supplements. - George
I can say without any reservations that your diet is going to have a whole lot more impact on your prostate cancer risk than even taking synthetic E. The risks are way overblown by the medical establishment and the risks of poor diet are extremely underestimated. - George
George is right on. I just want to add that many foods fortified with Vit D use D2. For example milk, almond milk, even coconut milk. Read the lables.
My herbal teacher has told us that there are studies out now that suggest D2 may cause cancer.
Most ND's will tell you to get your D level upto 50. Most lab ranges start at 25 or 30 and a MD will not say anything if you are 31.
My level was around 30 for years and not untill I started to supplement and get is up around 50 did I find I get sick less often.
I know of one ND that says to get your D level to the 60-100 range if you have an autoimmune condition. It has a modulating effect on the immune system and can slow down the self attack. Keep in mind D is really a hormone and not a vitamin. It was misclassified when it was discovered.
WRT Vitamine K I believe George is talking about K2. K1 AND k2 are different vitamins and people may get confussed. K2 helps keep calcium in your bones and not in your soft tissue. This Includes your artieries. The recent August editon of Life Extention magazine has written about this.
Quote from: goodluck on August 25, 2012, 11:26:28 PM
WRT Vitamine K I believe George is talking about K2. K1 AND k2 are different vitamins and people may get confussed. K2 helps keep calcium in your bones and not in your soft tissue. This Includes your artieries. The recent August editon of Life Extention magazine has written about this.
Exactly! Both are important. K1 is related to clotting. With insufficient K1 and large amounts of E, you can have bleeding problems. K2 is related to calcium. With insufficient K2 and large amounts of E, you can have soft tissue calcium problems. So both forms of K go together with all forms of E. - George
I hear zinc can be useful for good erections but I haven't heard it mentioned often in relation to Peyronies Disease. Does anybody have any thoughts on zinc either positive or negative?
I'm reading great things about beetroot for boosting nitric oxide. It's cheap and readily available.
Zinc is a critical minieral in so many bodily functions. I know it is nessisary for good prostate and testicle health. It is also good for a healthy thyroid.
It may help with testosterone synthesis. But I don't know.
It supports immune function. If you take too much it can suppress copper. That is why copper and zinc are always used togeather in a multi-mineral. They also say you should take it opposite Iron if you supplement with it.
Bearing in mind everything you've written goodluck, which seems to be backed up by other information I've read on the net I'm surprised that zinc isn't mentioned more often in relation to Peyronies. Apart from the physical points you highlighted I understand zinc is effective in fighting depression and lets face it many men with Peyronies Disease are depressed so could this be an essential supplement that we should all be considering?
I understand there are downsides with taking too much but a low dosage of 10-15mg per day should be safe as part of a healthy all round diet. I just managed to pick up a bottle from the supermarket with a 180 tablets (6 months supply) for £4 about $6.
Quote from: goodluck on September 01, 2012, 09:35:43 PM
They also say you should take it opposite Iron if you supplement with it.
I drink some water with apple cider vinegar and blackstrap molasses in it (almost) every morning; blackstrap molasses is supposed to be high in iron.
Actually now I'm looking it up and reading more about it and it seems to be just as high in copper (and a handful of other things). Maybe a good thing to drink in conjunction with supplements.
I eat pumpkin seeds every day which are high in Zinc. I put them in salads and in my morning cereal.
For those in the US you can get organic at Trader Joe's. Often called pepitas which I think is a specific type of pumkin seed.
If I feel a soar throat coming on I will start to take zinc lozengers. I personally don't see a problem exceeding 50mg a day for a few days to stave off a cold or atleast reduce its duration.
Vitamin e is really a question for me. For coq10 or Acl, there are evidences (research, testimony...) that it can help in the treatment of the Peyronies Disease. I understand that vitamin E was the only oral treatment we had some years ago. But I didn't find any research about Peyronie and vitamin E. While there are on other products (coq10...). So do we have to forget it ?
In the same time, it seems to be a good anti-oxydant so it must participate in the whole process. So I think I have to keep it. But I also read vitamin E (PENTOX (where to get it and does it work?) - My Experience - Peyronies Society Forums [Page 3] (https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,1247.msg27437.html#msg27437)) can increase scar tissues ! Then I discovered we have to take vitamin K2 (manage calcification) if we take vitamin E (and avoid the pb with scar t issues ?).
But which posology of vitamin k do we have to take (for 400 ui vitamin E) ? What other vitamin depletion do I have to expect if I take vitamin E&K ?
Thanks
Tom
TomP
You are right, many doctors in the past and even today are giving to new Peyronies sufferers vitamin E and telling them to come back after 6 months or a year. It is not because the vitamin E is a Peyronies treatment, is because they don't know more than that. It is a negative approach.
We had a debate in the past on the forum, not long time ago regarding vitamin E. We have some members that stated that vitamin E helped them.
Most of the people think that vitamin E is useless and even damaging.
I am proposing you to read the forum posts on the subject, you may find the answers to your questions.
James
If you are taking Alpha Tocopherol, you need to also be taking 1) Gamma Tocopherol to prevent Gamma Tocopherol depletion and resulting free radical issues, 2) Vitamin K1 to prevent blood clotting issues, and 3) Vitamin K2 to prevent calcium issues. That pretty much sums it up. There are a number of balanced Vitamin E products available that provide both Alpha Tocopherol and Gamma Tocopherol. There are also balanced Vitamin K products that provide both K1 and K2 in the same capsule. In fact, Life Extension produces a product containing all of them EXCEPT the common Alpha Tocopherol form of Vitamin E, and markets it as "Super Booster". http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01680/Super-Booster-Softgels-with-Advanced-K2-Complex.html (http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item01680/Super-Booster-Softgels-with-Advanced-K2-Complex.html) - George
As James suggests, any benefit you might get from Vitamin E would be extremely small, so it is far more important to get on the Pentox/CoQ10/Acetyl L Carnitine regimen if at all possible. - George