Wikipedia has an article on trigger points (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_points) (muscle knots). I get these in my back fairly regularly, and I'm curious whether anyone else does too. In general, conditions that go along with Peyronies Disease might give some insight.
Connective tissue issues, fibrotic scaring, and impeded blood circulation can be involved with the knots. Seems like a hard mattress would make this worse.
s&s
Can cystoscopy worsen Peyronies or the erectile dysfunction associated with it? Any personal experiences?
Here's a thought I'm just kicking around, that there could be some involvement with E. coli bacteria and Peyronies Disease. In
Escherichia coli-human uroepithelial cell interaction products enhance fibroblast migration and matrix accumulation (PMID 11325085 (http://pubmed.gov/11325085)):
QuoteUrinary tract infection has been associated with renal interstitial scarring and ureteral wall fibrosis. The mechanism of progression of scarring despite attenuation of the primary insult is not clear. We examined the role of the products of the interaction between Escherichia coli and human uroepithelial cells (HUC-EC-S) on the migration of fibroblasts, as well as their matrix synthesis. MATERIALS AND METHODS: We evaluated the effect of HUC-EC-S (concentration of 10%, 15%, and 25%) on the migration of fibroblasts across a filter in a modified Boyden chamber. To determine the role of transforming growth factor-beta and MCP-1, we studied the effect of anti-TGF-beta and anti-MCP-1 antibodies on interaction product-induced fibroblast migration. The effect of HUC-EC-S on fibronectin and collagen I accumulation was studied by the Western blotting. RESULTS: Bacterial-HUC interaction products enhanced (P < 0.001) migration of fibroblasts compared with uroepithelial interaction product (HUC-S). Anti-TGF-beta and anti-MCP-1 antibodies partly inhibited (P < 0.001) the HUC-EC-S-induced fibroblast migration. Also, HUC-EC-S-treated fibroblasts showed enhanced accumulation of fibronectin and collagen 1. CONCLUSION: Escherichia coli-induced activation of HUC not only promotes migration of fibroblasts but also triggers matrix remodeling.
Interesting the E. coli can cause some of the tissue changes seen in Peyronies Disease. Apparently it can show up outside its normal habitat of the lower colon in places like the urethra and the upper respiratory system, and when it's gone systemic it can be very dangerous.
s&s
This would not surprise me at all. I believe it is simply part of a larger immune failure syndrome. In the end it is the immune system that controls the spread of pathogenic e. coli. Note that not all e. coli are pathogenic. Most are part of the essential makeup of the gut. In fact, an essential nutrient for the good e. coli is PABA, which is NOT an essential nutrient for humans. Thats PABA as in Potaba! But e. coli mutate easily and pathogenic forms are widespread. When the immune system fails to keep up with them, they can pretty much go where they want in the body and that is not a good scene. This has long been referred to in the alternative medicine sphere as "leaky gut syndrome". I would say it is more like "leaky immune system syndrome". Alternative medicine usually associates this process with food allergies, particularly guten sensitivity. But new research in Australia is associating food allergies with Vitamin D deficiency. And round and round we go. You start to look around and all of these things are connected in some interesting ways. - George
One thing about E. coli is that it's susceptible to d-mannose, a simple sugar. It's not digestible, and normally is filtered by the kidneys and passes out through urine, which is how it gets exposed to the UTI. People with urinary tract infections caused by E. coli have posted impressive results with d-mannose (for example (http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-D-Mannose-Powder-3-oz-85-g/531?at=1)).
It's also a very small molecule (180.16 Da), so it might lend itself to topical use (PMID 2205657).
Probably. Not my experience though.
We have read here reports of catheterization leading to development of Peyronie's Disease (or perhaps lying on a oddly bent penis during surgery for something else).
Tim
I am skeptical about any theory or cause for Peyronies Disease except genetic predisposition, trauma, side effects from certain medications and severe diabetes (or a combination thereof). It may indeed be true that certain immune functions occur during an e. coli-caused urinary infection but that does not necessarily mean it gives rise to Peyronie's. E. Coli is so common in and around the human body that I would expect to see higher rates of Peyronie's Disease across the board if it did have a role in Peyronies Disease. Also, since there is a high rate of co-morbidity with Lederhose Disease and Depuytren's contracture with Peyronie's (40% ish). Since these conditions are viewed as related, I would also expect many many more people would be suffering from those conditions as well, especially women, who are more susceptible to urinary tract infections. I would guess that women, due to obvious anatomical differences, would have more instances of Depuytren's and Lederhose than there are now if E. Coli played a role.
The study posted below discusses scarring in the urinary tract, where E. Coli are present during an infection. My understanding is that in most cases E. Coli migrates externally from the anus and up the urethra and into the bladder, rather than through the blood stream. Apparently hematogenic (blood born) e coli. can occur but only in very immuno compromised individuals. I just don't see how E. Coli would be present in or around the tunica of the penis (I see there is an opportunity for an anal sex joke here, but I'm being serious). I know some folks on the forum have immune problems but this theory doesn't hold water for the men who have Peyronie's but are otherwise perfectly healthy.
-Skjald
Quote from: Skjaldborg on December 14, 2009, 04:28:38 PM
I am skeptical about any theory or cause for Peyronies Disease except genetic predisposition, trauma, side effects from certain medications and severe diabetes (or a combination thereof). It may indeed be true that certain immune functions occur during an e. coli-caused urinary infection but that does not necessarily mean it gives rise to Peyronie's. E. Coli is so common in and around the human body that I would expect to see higher rates of Peyronie's Disease across the board if it did have a role in Peyronies Disease. Also, since there is a high rate of co-morbidity with Lederhose Disease and Depuytren's contracture with Peyronie's (40% ish). Since these conditions are viewed as related, I would also expect many many more people would be suffering from those conditions as well, especially women, who are more susceptible to urinary tract infections. I would guess that women, due to obvious anatomical differences, would have more instances of Depuytren's and Lederhose than there are now if E. Coli played a role.
The study posted below discusses scarring in the urinary tract, where E. Coli are present during an infection. My understanding is that in most cases E. Coli migrates externally from the anus and up the urethra and into the bladder, rather than through the blood stream. Apparently hematogenic (blood born) e coli. can occur but only in very immuno compromised individuals. I just don't see how E. Coli would be present in or around the tunica of the penis (I see there is an opportunity for an anal sex joke here, but I'm being serious). I know some folks on the forum have immune problems but this theory doesn't hold water for the men who have Peyronie's but are otherwise perfectly healthy.
-Skjald
A lot of good points. I'm wondering if trauma to the penis/tunica can provide a place for E. coli to gain a foothold.
Quote from: slowandsteady on December 14, 2009, 05:30:16 PM
A lot of good points. I'm wondering if trauma to the penis/tunica can provide a place for E. coli to gain a foothold.
Maybe, but why and how? That would mean that e. coli was in the bloodstream and I think that would be rare in most healthy individuals. And why would it be localized to the tunica? I get minor injuries to my hands and feet all the time, and I certainly did around the time I developed Peyronie's from a minor injury, but I don't have Lederhose or Depuytren's. I have slammed my fingers in car doors, messed up my knuckles punching a heavy bag and have stubbed the bejesus out of my toes numerous times, but to no long term ill effect. I believe there are more likely causes to this disease. Admittedly, I would sincerely like to hear that Peyronie's was caused by something like eating a certain flavor of ice cream or wearing smelly gym socks, because I could then make sure that if I have a son he could steer clear of this terrible malady. Unfortunately, the reasons behind this disease are complex and not easily treated, as we are all aware.
-Skjald
I think it is important to note that there are two classifications of e. coli. The first is the common kind. It is not pathogenic. It is harmless and in fact a necessary component of a healthy intestinal eco system. The other type is the pathogenic kind that you hear about on the news frequently. It is infectious and can run rampant in immuno compromised individuals. - George
Although I am skeptical of certain alleged causes of Peyronie's, I have often wondered if circumcision may contribute somehow. I would be inclined to believe the e.coli theory if circumcision were the route it took to get in the body. Although I know the procedure doesn't technically effect the tunica, it is a significant trauma for a tiny creature with a weak immune system to endure. Circumcision, unlike regular surgery, is not performed in a super-sterile environment (nor is bris), so I wouldn't be surprised if e.coli or other bacteria are getting into the wound. For the record, I still have a significant circumcision scar whereas all of my other childhood scrapes, cuts and gashes healed nicely with no scar whatsoever. Makes you wonder...
I won't even go into the consent issue, as I'm sure that's been covered before. Rest assured, little Skjaldborgsen is going to be left intact, happy and healthy and with hope will be graced with better fortune than his old man.
-Skjald
And remember, the potential for contamination is not just bacterial, but viral as well these days. And there are some WEIRD viruses out there. - George
I'm having a bit of a flair-up again, and I wonder if the raw chocolate powder I started putting in my coffee lately is the culprit.
There is some evidence supporting the claim that serum iron can increase fibrosis (here a study on cardiac fibrosis and iron overload (http://www.springerlink.com/content/72102602j8205q32/)). The proposed mechanism is that myocytes normally rein in myofibroblasts but can't when they take on too much iron.
s&s
Never say it!
I'd blame the coffee first.
Tim
I've gone back and forth over time about what the causes of Peyronies Disease are. There are certainly lots of things associated with Peyronies Disease and things (like diabetes, pre-diabetes, autoimmune disease, and inflammation) that make it worse, the root cause still has not been proven out.
In any case, the hypothesis presented in
this paper (http://www.nature.com/ijir/journal/v14/n5/full/3900876a.html), "Peyronie's disease: an anatomically-based hypothesis and beyond", makes a lot of sense to me.
QuoteIn my opinion, Peyronie's disease is aberrant wound healing in response to an inflammation trapped within the layers of tunica albuginea. The arrangement of the vessels traversing the tunica albuginea is unique in that a cuff of loose areolar tissue cushions the arteries while the veins are in direct contact with the fibrous tunica. As a result, the arterial flow into the erectile tissue continues during erection (except in the rigid phase when the intracavernous pressure exceeds the systolic blood pressure) while the venous channels are compressed. When a blunt trauma breaks the fibers of the tunica with extravasation, the resulting inflammatory response creates an area of edema and cell infiltration which compress the nearby venous channels and forming a 'trapped' inflammatory response.
Veins take blood away from tissues. The tunica's venous tissue in this view is less able to remove blood and compounds from the site of the inflammation in the tunica due to its structure. Vicious cycle ensues:
QuoteThe unique ability of TGFb to produce more of itself forms a vicious cycle within this microenvironment and results in excessive production of intercellular matrix and collagen fibers.
Increasing outflow from the tunica via heat or infrared treatment and stretching might help in this scenario. Taking substances to inhibit TGFb1 (like NAC, R-ALA, curcumin, and others) might complement that.
s&s
I think the problem with this is that it still does not answer the question of why some get Peyronie's with even a minor injury and others sustain major injury and heal normally. I think that we all pretty much knew that the TA is anatomically vulnerable. The question is what is going wrong with the body's capability to deal with this vulnerability. I think the answer to that question is complex in that it probably requires that more than one thing go wrong at the same time. We know that there are a lot of things that can hinder the body's ability to heal. Elevated blood sugar, low vitamin D levels, hypertension, the list is endless. Unfortunately most patients are looking for the silver bullet. And most doctors are looking to simply get the patient out of their office and make some money in the process. Doctors simply assume that it is normal for people to be overweight, diabetic, hypertensive, etc. There is no real effort on the part of most doctors to prevent or proactively treat these issues. Each one simply merits yet another medication added to the list. People get sent off for MRI exams costing literally tens of thousands of dollars, but people are seldom tested for mundane things like toxic bacteria in the gut, lyme disease, or heavy metal poisoning, let alone more exotic things like vitamin D levels. Any of these investigations would cost a fraction of the price of one extensive MRI or CAT scan. And people are seldom counseled as to a need to loose weight and are seldom given any guidance as to how to loose weight. With all of this going on in the background, it is no wonder that weird diseases like Peyronie's are proliferating like never before. So while I believe everything that this hypothesis outlines, it still leaves many questions unanswered.
I'm asking this because in my personal endeavors to study my rare condition, I found many sources/ studies that indicate that peyronies disease/condition is set up to occur after an injury or trauma to the tunica albuginia. My rare condition is that I've been experiencing many priapismic episodes since early childhood. Not until about age 20 did I actually become aware of my increased risk of getting serious penile injuries and finally become extra careful. Ever since then I've been learning about the common complications and risks to my penis as result of the multiple priapism episodes I had been mysteriously getting. I am
still getting them. I have experienced these painful priapismic episodes almost systematically for a stretch of 26 years.!!!
In my understanding, during a priapism episode the entire penis (all of its tissues) get strained with constant pressure of the blood and lack of blood circulation (ischemia). This causes a variable degree of tissue damage (with pain) relative to the lack of circulation compounded by the duration of time and the intensity of pressure and temperature of the involved tissues. The tissue damage will include the tunica albugina and even if the priapismic episode has not caused an injury to this tunica albugina it has stressed it and weakened it. Later, the weakened tunica albugina may tear or become fatigued in any portion there of and lead to fibrosis, scar tissue, etc, in that portion.
As another relation to priapism and Peyronies Disease, the men that suffered from just one event of priapism are sometimes found to develop corporeal fibrosis attributing to varying degrees of erectile dysfunction.
Some men developed peyronies disease even years after the priapism was resolved. In such cases the connection seems more coincidental.
The surgical and or other treatments for priapism can inflict injury to the tunica albugina, Even the common use of penile injections to contract the erectile tissue away from the inner tunica wall are sometimes blamed for injury.
One question or hypothesis that I want to throw at you is ; Can or does the occurrence of peyronies ever interfere with the outflow of blood through the penis' dorsal vein. If it does then I would think that this venous blood flow interference would predispose him to priapism.
What have you learned or experienced as links between Peyronies Disease and Priapism.
If you have questions for me, let um roll.,,, I don't find many people like myself who are in the know about priapism.
diminishedhope,
Priapism can cause Peyronie's Disease.
A potential cause of priapism is a clotting disorder, or a red cell disorder (like thallasemia or sickle cell disease). You might want to visit a very good hematologist to see if your red cell conformation is always normal (that refers to the shape of the cell - which can become less 'bendable" under certain conditions). Red cells can "catch" in the outflow veins, and lead to buildup of blood in the penis and thus priapism. It is a common side effect of sickle cell disease crises.
Tim
I thought this might be worth a mention.
From the wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSLP), "Thymic stromal lymphopoietin is a protein that in humans is encoded by the TSLP gene. ... It mainly impacts myeloid cells and
induces the release of T cell-attracting chemokines from monocytes and enhances the maturation of CD11c(+) dendritic cells. ...
TSLP is produced mainly by non-hematopoietic cells as fibroblasts, epithelial cells and different types of stromal or stromal-like cells.''
People having the G version of rs3806932 are associated with having lower levels of TSLP. My genotype for this SNP is AA, no G's at all.
From the Spittoon (http://spittoon.23andme.com/2010/04/21/snpwatch-genetic-variant-associated-with-food-allergy-related-disorder-eosinophilic-esophagitis/),
QuoteThe TSLP protein is known to regulate inflammatory responses. It is a key initiator of allergic inflammatory diseases and has been shown to be overproduced in atopic dermatitis lesions and asthma-affected lungs. People with EoE often also suffer from these other allergic conditions.
So I'm potentially more likely to have fibroblasts that produce T cell-attracting chemokines which cause an inflammatory response.
s&s
I have trigger points in my butt muscles that cause constant pelvic tension which has translated into poor posture and all around body tension. I am unable to feel like I can completely relax my penenium as well. I will be further looking into this, as it may have caused nerve entrapment and loss of sensation in my penis. (in addition to the Peyronies Disease)
Sounds good stuff, are you a medical person?
How did you get tested?
What is the treatment?
My next line of research will be genetic and which Polymorphisms are associated with Peyronies, Ledderhose, Dupuytrens, Hypodontia etc and is there a common link.
I would hope that if there is a set of Polymorphisms associated then gene therapy could be an answer.
Getting my family tested could be expensive at the moment unless you know of a low cost option.
I find it strange that only specific parts of the body are affected by associated conditions.
In the case of Dupytrens only one finger on each hand, normally and in the case of my feet only two matching toes too. How does the condition know which fingers or toes to affect? Unless genetic.
Best regards
No, I'm in engineering actually; it happens that I'm interested in health and supplements.
I used 23andme for testing, initially just because it was a way to see which polymorphism I had for folate metabolism (lots of people can't metabolize that nasty form of folate called folic acid, present in just about every multivitamin under the sun), and a sale was going on. I later upgraded to full access because I find the whole thing so interesting.
I haven't come across any supplement that affects thymic stromal lymphopoietin unfortunately (not to mention I'm uncertain whether it's active in the TA).
I remember a post by someone who had Peyronies Disease after surgery, and he thought it was possibly due to the penis being compressed during surgery (I don't remember the details well). I started to think about my own history, and I realized I had only been focusing on medical issues & medications until now. I completely ignored the fact I had surgery with general anesthesia about 2 weeks before I noticed the formation of these plaques and the significant physical changes - specifically the hourglassing & curve. Prior to this, I only had a very mild case of Peyronies Disease - if you could even call it that. Basically, I rarely ever got fully 100% erect (though an orgasm was possible) and things seemed slightly smaller, but not as bad as now. However, I never felt scar tissue or nodules until after surgery (maxilofacial surgery - so nowhere near the area).
I don't understand why men who have prostate surgery get peyronies sometimes (some do - some dont)...or if this has ever been explained. I'm starting to wonder if there is a predisposition / stressor effect here...where I may have been predisposed and the "stress" (whatever it could've been - the anesthesia, an increase blood levels of byproducts related to injury) sort of pushed my system over the edge w/ peyronies. In normal cases peyronies is caused by a direct injury to the penis (which I do not believe I had). So, what if you had a serious, traumatic injury elsewhere (i.e. surgery) and your body pumped out all of the cytokines, etc... to repair this. It's true that the injured tissue itself tends to produce the response & it doesn't go through the entire bloodstream... I am just wondering if it's possible or what people think of this idea. The timing is just too coincidental for me & also for the other guy who posted about his surgery (not to mention the prostate patients...Peyronies Disease doesn't make sense to me after that)
Of course I could be totally wrong here - as my other main theory is that a semi-erect penis is more prone to injury during sex & also probably the root cause of my problem...though I dont remember a specific episode.
Thanks Tim, that is definitely true in my understanding. Blood conditions are very responsible for priapism in many cases. In my case I wanted to be tested especially because my dad had developed leukemia. But my tests were negative for any problems but I have wondered if the tests I've had really are broad spectrum or accurate for only specific blood cells. I haven't looked into the type of tests which I have had taken to understand their specific purpose or validity. But after writing this reply, I think I should.
I have learned so much regarding priapism and peyronie's disease and there physiological connections that I must relay that peyronie's is typically not to blame as the cause of priapism. BUT IT CAN affect the shape of the tunica albuginia which we all can certainly testify to, so peyronie's is also likely to affect the vascular system (blood flow) within the affected portion of the penis. So I do feel they are both worth a close study.
-diminishedhope
I just started reading about Psychoneuroimmunology, essentially how the brain can cause physical changes in the body... like the placebo effect. More and more people are finding reducing stress and anxiety helps with their chronic pelvic pain symptoms. (CPPS is a encompassing term for protatitis, pelvic floor dysfunction, IC, and chronic pelvic muscle tension) I recently saw a physical therapist who confirmed my suspicion, that I have CPPS issues. On a CPPS forum similar to this one, there are people who also have Peyronies and most feel there is a connection between the two.
Chronic muscle tension can lead to constricted blood vessels, nerve issues, increased stress and adrenal activity, and regional inflammation. And we all know what inflammation does...
I am not proposing our stressed minds bent our wangs, but I do believe that there is some connection between my CPPS and peyronies and not merely a coincidence.
I would be interested to hear if anyone on this forum has CPPS or similar.
SSmithe
I have spent a lot of time these last few weeks studying CPPS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_prostatitis/chronic_pelvic_pain_syndrome) and I wonder if there isn't a strong connection/correlation with Peyronies Disease. Let me offer some background context.
While I don't have CPPS I believe I was likely on the path for it. I've noticed that I've done a lot of tensing of the muscles in my pelvic region (specifically my perineum and my glutes). I wasn't really even aware of it until a year ago or so. Of course, this tensing intensified when I was under stress similar to how people might hold tension in their jaw and develop TMJ.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that my pelvic tensing caused my Peyronies Disease but here's my thought process. If you clenched your fist for 5-10 hours a day and did this for years it's likely that you could develop circulation problems or other issues. Now if you took and slammed your fist against a door would you be more or less likely to injure your hand? My theory is that you'd be more likely to injure your hand. And I wonder if it's possible that this kind of thing might relate to Peyronies Disease. If you tense the muscles around your penis for extended periods of times over months or even years, when the penis "slams its hand against the door" (i.e. has intercourse) does that make it more susceptible to injury?
There are two reasons why I bring this up. The first is that if indeed there is a correlation between CPPS and Peyronies Disease (at least some instances of it) it might make sense for people to start doing things to prevent a future onset of CPPS. The classic book in the genre is A Headache In The Pelvis although there are others. If some of us sense that we are holding a lot of tension there by doing exercises to prevent CPPS it could help us avoid the double whammy or CPPS and Peyronies Disease.
Second, and this is a bigger stretch, it's possible that exercises for CPPS could actually help with Peyronies Disease healing. It does seem to make sense that if tension of pelvic muscles contributed to development of Peyronies Disease then anything that helps to undo that tension could help create a better environment for healing. I have come across a lot of CPPS-related advice including certain stretches, trigger point work, myofascial massage/release, etc. that seem to help CPPS sufferers. Should we be doing those things as well?
To sum up, I realize this is only a theory and should be treated as such. However, it does seem like in our never-ending quest for a cure for Peyronies Disease there could be a lot of learn from people who deal with CPPS. At a minimum it would be good to start some of these conversations.
DannyOcean,
It was nice to read there is another CPPS / Peyronies theorist out there. I have written similar posts about CPPS on this forum with little response. However, I too believe Peyronie's and CPPS are related. To add to what you have written: I believe constantly tensed muscles cause inflammation, poor circulation, and jack-up your nervous system. There is also the pudendal nerve that runs through the back of your pelvis through the perineum and into the penis. Tensed muscles do cause this nerve to act-up causing all kinds of problems. My theory is that a compressed pudendal nerve constantly "irritates" the smooth muscles in the penis and causes it to heal incorrectly. This is obviously only a theory, and should be taken as such.
I have noticed the tension on my pelvis, glutes, lower back, and shoulders since I was probably 12 or 13 and I am 30 now. I never pursued treatment for it as pain was never an issue, just uncomfortableness and poor posture. Now that Peyronies has entered my life, I cannot shake the gut feeling that the two are connected.
I am about 3/4 through A headache in the pelvis, and Paradoxical Relaxation. I also recommend another book called Somatics by Thomas Hanna which deals with habitual muscle tension and how to prevent it from destroying your body. I am having a hard time with the paradoxical relaxation as it seems so nebulous.
Anyway, please send along any other thoughts you have regarding CPPS and Peyronies. I have been on CPPS forums and there are people with Peyronies wondering about the same connection, so we are not alone in our theory.
SSmithe
Good info in your post. It seems like so many of the Peyronies Disease "cures" are attempts to boost circulation and personally, I think that poor circulation to my pelvic region played a big role in my development of Peyronies Disease. After having very strong erections throughout my 20s I went through a period a year or two prior to the onset of Peyronies where I had a little more difficulty getting erections and also where I was suffering from a lot of stress/anxiety. I remember thinking to myself that I "just wasn't what I used to be" even though I was still shy of 30. Peyronies Disease set in shortly thereafter.
I also grew up in a home where sexuality was fairly repressed. I think because of that I may have subconsciously started to hold more tension in my groin. I also suffered through bouts of struggle with pornography and infidelity, also things that could have caused tension to be held in that part of the body. It's only in the last year or two that I've realized how pronounced the holding of tension was in my pelvic region but my guess is that I've been doing it for years. I'm very thankful that I caught this before full-on pain developed as the healing process for CPPS seems at least as involved as that for Peyronies Disease.
If indeed there is a connection or correlation then it would seem like we could learn a lot from the CPPS resources and community (and likely vice versa). Sometimes with Peyronies there's a strong feeling of "wanting to do more" and when I dive into CPPS it seems like there are quite a few strategies that have been proven helpful such as trigger point massage and forms of stretching. At a minimum it seems like doing these things wouldn't hurt. If it helps prevent eventual onset of CPPS that would be great. And if there's the possibility it helps with Peyronies Disease then that's the icing on the cake.
It would be great to hear from others. Even if you don't actually have pelvic pain, do others here notice that you are (consciously or not) tensing the muscles of your pelvic floor, glutes, perineum, etc.? This kind of stuff would be great to know about if it's prevalent throughout the Peyronies Disease community.
Hi guys:
A bout a year ago I started having circulation problems in my legs .MY legs would get extreamly tired while walking a slight grade or just when getting out of the car after a short drive. I would have to stop because my legs were in pain.Climbimg a staircase also, even the muscles in the buttock would get sore. All these are symptoms of P.A.D. And yes during this time erections were hard to achieve . When I did have them soft and weak.
I went to the doctors about these problems, already knowing i had artery disease, after having a heart attack at 34. The technician after doing the test said I had poor circulation but not bad enough to cause they symptoms. Go figure right?
After taking pentox,cialis and using the ved for less than a month I am happy to report all these symptoms have improved! I have much less pain in my legs , and a very rigid silly looking penis.
I once again had been tested again last week they finally concluded I had blockages in my legs! Wow it took them a year later ,when symptoms were better.So yes I feel bad circulation contributes to peyronies and that cialis, pentox and ved therapy helps.
I would also like to add I have diabetes and gout and take bata blockers witch are considered to be contributers to this disease.
Lunch break over go to go: fubar
Interesting to hear. Someone else here said that Peyronies Disease might simply be "atherosclerosis of the penis" and I wonder how much truth there is to this?
It's also interesting to think that Peyronies Disease could actually be a warning sign (albeit not a very pleasant one) of potentially worse things like CPPS and heart disease and in a strange, twisted way (no pun intended) could be seen as a blessing in disguise. I wouldn't dare say that to anyone with a condition worse than my fairly mild one but at the same time it is interesting to see how all this stuff might be (at least somewhat) related.
Dannyocean
I think you may have read to much in to my post. I was merely agreeing with you that circulation could be a factor. One could say that holding In your gut could cause circulation problems in the pelvic region. I do not know. Just throwing it out there.
I was not diagnosing or throwing a theory out there. I have only been dealing with peyronies four 4 months now.
Honestly, how could peyronies be a blessing for any man. I already have the great killers of man. Please explain:
Fubar
Danny,
The one thing Peyronies Disease will definitely do is get you to think about the health of your penis, which in turn will get you thinking about your overall heath.
Then, you start surfing the net for supplements and going to the doctor on a regular basis and exercising and thinking about the health of your penis some more.
That's about the only good things I can think of about having a really nasty disease. And, it won't kill you...that's probably pretty important.
I agree wholeheartedly GS. Peyronie's has led me down a path where I exercise regularly, eat (relatively) well and don't do anything I deem to be damaging to my health. I've picked up a keen interest in supplements are often browse through supplements that can help combat various disorders and diseases even if I don't personally have them. Many people take their health for granted, or assume that someone else will pick up the pieces if an issue comes up. Having peyronie's disease has taught me to take a proactive and preventative approach to my own health.
Ditto Newguy and GS,
The silver lining to this utterly devastating and ridiculous condition is that you start taking better care of yourself and you appreciate what you have. When I first got this I felt that my sex life was over and that overnight I had turned from a healthy 29-year old into a feeble, crumbling Methuselah. My image of myself as a man was crushed, utterly crushed. I was angry and helpless. I used that anger and started exercising more, took the meds, went to the Uros, went to a therapist and got myself back on track. The uro appointments helped confirm that I am still very healthy, a few divots notwithstanding, and I appreciate that I'm doing OK knowing that this could be worse and may in fact get worse down the road. I'm also glad that I don't have something deadly.
Part of the reason this forum is here is to help us bounce back from this disease and to help ourselves and others find and exploit any silver lining we can.
-Skjald
I note an increase in stress and progression of disease. I work on not being so reactive. IT suggests to me that an adrenal response (up tight and outta sight) is associated with mild progression of disease.
Of course, after having this for many years, I can recognize when something is happening to my body. Sure enough, the new dent will appear soon after noting a different aching feeling. That sensation, in turn, causes me to fret and worry - so cause and effect is very hard to tease apart here. Knowing something is happening can occur at a subconscious level IMHO and lead to a stress response.
So, chicken or egg?
Tim
Having had a whole host of other symptoms occurring at the same time as my peyronie's I have found that drinking tonic water has alleviated my leg cramps.
Tonic water contains Quinine. I have since found that people do take Quinine tablets to ease night time leg cramps. Leg cramps indicate poor blood flow.
It is standard practice among technical diagnostic engineers to look at all the symptoms and try to cure just one of them. In 90 percent of the cases the other symptoms are also alleviated.
I am pretty well convinced that all my problems stem from poor blood circulation due to my blood being too thick. The medications I am taking all seem to be related to helping to thin the blood. I also have to prick my finger to take my blood sample for blood sugar tests and my blood is now very much thinner. I don't now have a blood sugar problem now I am taking Neprinol. Interestingly all the replies to my posts and most of the other posts for people who have had some success seem to relate to improving blood flow generally. Even those that argued that I was wrong eventually agreed that the meds they were on also helped the blood flow.
VED also improves the blood flow to the penis as does Traction.
Quinine does have a positive effect on the blood flow but also brings up an interesting question about MOSQUITOES and protozoan or MALARIA type diseases.
We have a healthy population of mosquitoes where I live and they are more aggressive being of the salt water marsh mosquito type.
I live in Essex England and where I live has a past history of Malaria.
My current theory is that in many cases the blood is too thick because of inflammation in the cardiovascular system.
Infection of the cardiovascular system would cause this thickening of the blood, and malaria type infections spread by mosquito, flea and tick bites would fit the bill.
I believe there are many types of malaria and protozoan like infections and some are milder than others. The parasite toxoplasma gondii is also related to malaria and is spread by rats and domestic cats.
Finally this theory could explain why an injury to the penis triggers peyronie's. If the person already has a cardiovascular infection then it would be an ideal time for the infection to spread to soft tissue while there is damage.
I also believe that our genetic makeup has a very big role to play in that some people are far more susceptible to certain infections than others.
It is the same with computers; a Microsoft Windows virus cannot normally infect an Apple Mac due to the different (genetic) computer code.
This is my theory so far and it is just a theory. But I am having some success.
Quote from: SSmithe on June 26, 2010, 03:25:45 PM
I just started reading about Psychoneuroimmunology, essentially how the brain can cause physical changes in the body... like the placebo effect. More and more people are finding reducing stress and anxiety helps with their chronic pelvic pain symptoms. (CPPS is a encompassing term for protatitis, pelvic floor dysfunction, IC, and chronic pelvic muscle tension) I recently saw a physical therapist who confirmed my suspicion, that I have CPPS issues. On a CPPS forum similar to this one, there are people who also have Peyronies and most feel there is a connection between the two.
Chronic muscle tension can lead to constricted blood vessels, nerve issues, increased stress and adrenal activity, and regional inflammation. And we all know what inflammation does...
I am not proposing our stressed minds bent our wangs, but I do believe that there is some connection between my CPPS and peyronies and not merely a coincidence.
I would be interested to hear if anyone on this forum has CPPS or similar.
SSmithe
I would suspect that it is a blood problem and that is why your brain is stressed. With blood problems all organs are stressed to some extent. When I started using blood thinning medication my stress went away. Last week I wrote a song on the morning of my daughters wedding and I performed it in front of 140 people that evening with very little stress. And it went down very well.
When the brain is suffering from lack of oxygen, glucose and nutrients it gets very stressed out but doesn't know why!
All the peyronie's treatments I have seen that people claim to have some success with seem to improve blood flow in some way.
I suspect that peyronie's is just another symptom of a much wider thing. In fact two people could have totally different symptoms but both be suffering from the same disease. It seems to take many years to get most of the symptoms but they come at random times so one person would not make the connection until much later in life.
I can also see why reducing stress helps because it is a vicious circle with stress constricting blood vessels.
Quote from: SSmithe on July 15, 2010, 06:40:15 PM
DannyOcean,
It was nice to read there is another CPPS / Peyronies theorist out there. I have written similar posts about CPPS on this forum with little response. However, I too believe Peyronie's and CPPS are related. To add to what you have written: I believe constantly tensed muscles cause inflammation, poor circulation, and jack-up your nervous system. There is also the pudendal nerve that runs through the back of your pelvis through the perineum and into the penis. Tensed muscles do cause this nerve to act-up causing all kinds of problems. My theory is that a compressed pudendal nerve constantly "irritates" the smooth muscles in the penis and causes it to heal incorrectly. This is obviously only a theory, and should be taken as such.
I have noticed the tension on my pelvis, glutes, lower back, and shoulders since I was probably 12 or 13 and I am 30 now. I never pursued treatment for it as pain was never an issue, just uncomfortableness and poor posture. Now that Peyronies has entered my life, I cannot shake the gut feeling that the two are connected.
I am about 3/4 through A headache in the pelvis, and Paradoxical Relaxation. I also recommend another book called Somatics by Thomas Hanna which deals with habitual muscle tension and how to prevent it from destroying your body. I am having a hard time with the paradoxical relaxation as it seems so nebulous.
Anyway, please send along any other thoughts you have regarding CPPS and Peyronies. I have been on CPPS forums and there are people with Peyronies wondering about the same connection, so we are not alone in our theory.
SSmithe
I also had incredible tension in my back, neck and had very sore legs when walking. My back was so stiff I was disabled by it and my sternum was very sore. I had multiple sore joints in my back and a hiatus hernia. I had severe constipation and balance problems which all led to a heart attack last year. After being on heparin for six months most of these symptoms disappeared. I am now taking Neprinol (9 capsules a day, 3 at a time half an hour before meals) and still my symptoms have not come back but they do start to come back if I miss one dose.
Is a regular stretching routine for flexibility a treatment for CPPS? Peyronie's seems to come with quite a few other connective tissue disorders and stretching has worked will for me.
The following came from a paper on Idiopathic Pulmonary Fibrosis (http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/301226-overview):
QuoteIt has been described that mutant telomerase is associated with familial idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis.9 Telomerase is a specialized polymerase that adds telomere repeats to the ends of chromosomes. This helps to offset shortening that occurs during DNA replication. TGF-β negatively regulates telomerase activity.7 It is proposed that pulmonary fibrosis in patients with short telomeres is provoked by a loss of alveolar epithelial cells. Telomere shortening also occurs with aging, and it can also be acquired. This telomere shortening could promote the loss of alveolar epithelial cells, resulting in aberrant epithelial cell repair, and therefore should be considered as another potential contributor to the pathogenesis of idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis
I wonder if a connection between Peyronies Disease and short telomeres might exist. This brings up using potential telomerase activators like astragalus extracts (which enhances wound healing and helps liver and kidney fibrosis) or cycloastragenol.
These was some discussion on the Internet a while back about people getting toasted skin from keeping a hot laptop on their lap for extended periods. This included issues with the scrotum getting too warm and interfering with spermatogenesis. Could extended use of laptops (heating the penis) cause inflammation and therefore Peyronies?
On the other hand, heat treatment (hyperthemia) has been been beneficial ...
Although this might not be a new idea but was thinking about why the acute phase takes so long to stabilize. Could it be that as we have painful erections (in our sleep or with sex), that we are continuing to build scar tissue? Since this disease started with local internal bleeding, are we still suffering small tears and bleeding when we have pain in erections? Should we artificially suppress all erections until all healing is complete?
Not getting erections is very bad for your penis. In fact I think I've read in more than a few places that if you never have erections, you get fibrosis in your penis.
When people kink there ankle, there natural inclination is to go to bed and stay there until its healed. The reality is that it has been proven that this approach doesn't work. Its why hospitals get people out and walking about even before the scars have healed and even if they are screaming in pain. ANY kind of scar tissue, if its not exercised regularly, will just shrink and shrink and shrink. The less you exercise tissue, the more it will atrophy. - George
Thanks George and skunkworks, that makes sense.
Hello everybody, i'm new to this site and i'd like to say that it gives me NO pleasure whatsoever to be here! :(
I've had Peyronie's for 3 and a half years now, and despite trying various different treatments i am unable to stop the progression of the disease. I won't go into what i've tried (yet), but believe me i've done my utmost to make inroads, but like the Terminator it just WILL NOT STOP!!!
The reason i'm posting on this subject is because i'm convinced that there is a connection between the mind and physical illness. My P's started just after my sexual relationship with my ex began to break down. Having a past history of mental issues and depression, i was highly susceptible to an emotional crises over it, added to the fact that i'd never had a satisfying, close sexual relationship with anyone else before. Bearing in mind that i was 32 when i met her you can see that my teens and 20's were pretty rough. It doesn't take much working out to realise that i have spent most of my life sexually frustrated and unsatisfied. So when i had to confront this breakdown it was literally too much for me to take, and BANG!!!, Peyronies.......
Now, bear with me as i go off on a tangent. I have a friend who does Reiki, and she insists that my root chakra is completely messed up. Now before you guffaw and dismiss me as a loon, i sincerly believe that she is right. So ask yourselves: does anyone out there believe emotional and psychological imbalances can physically manifest in the body? Let me tell you, i do.
The thing that's worrying me deeply is that it refuses to stabilise. 2010 was a nightmare for me as we finally split up after 6 years, so the stress levels went through the roof, as did the Peyronie's. It's now so bad that it hurts nearly all the time. So far the curve is manageable, but i have zero guarantee that it won't get worse.
So my questions are: is it normal for it to continue progressing over 3 yrs after it started? And does anyone agree that by changing attitudes, lifestyle and thinking more positively one can heal this thing from within? I hope so, as this is completely demolishing my morale, not to mention the fact that my penis is bent AND hurts like hell!!!
Sorry i can't offer any solutions, this Peyronie's is a nasty bit of work...... It's a bit like trying to destroy an armoured tank by throwing tennis balls at it; not only is it futile, but the harder you throw the balls the further they bounce away, and the further you have to walk to pick the bloody things up just to start the whole useless process again! :-\
So i'll leave you with a line from the Fun Boy Three: "You can try hard, don't mean a thing, take it easy, and then your chimes will swing.....".
Peace.
Justin,
I don't have any ideas about how your emotional state and peyronies interact, but if I were you I would get on all the recommended oral supplements as soon as possible and order a VED.
I have had this disease for 21/2 years now; it seems to be very stable and I haven't had any pain since I started taking Pentox. I use the VED on a regular basis and have for close to a year now.
There is no known cure at this time, but I do believe using the oral supplements and the VED will make it tolerable. It has for me and I think many of the men on this forum will tell you the same thing. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
GS
Hey justin,
What have you tried for Peyronies Disease and currently on right now?
Also, I totally agree with mental troubles manifesting itself in physical problems. You should really try to be more positive. If you keep believing you are defeated, then you will be defeated. But if you believe you will beat this and have a great future, your chances go wayyy up, and plus it makes you feel better in the moment at the very least.
You should check out a book called, "The Secret;" they also made a film on the book, also called "The Secret". I know you probably don't wanna try a new thing and are feeling exhasted. But this is truly a good read on how to change your mind focus out of the gutter and more towards the sky, if you know what i mean.
Go to your library and do a quick flip though it and maybe "check it out" for a couple weeks.
Because no one has all the answers and I have never read anywhere, could there be a correlation here? Anybody know about this?
hypothyroidism is not as common in men as it is in women - so docs tend to forget men have thyroid glands too... but healing issues (delayed healing, poor healing) are associated with hypothyroidism. cell metabolism is negatively affected. there may be a loose correlation between the two. Also, hypothyroidism hurts sex drive - and this has the "cascade" we often read about here...where libido declines, erectile quality declines, nighttime erections decline, and then a minor injury during sex with a 70% erect penis can happen more easily. so there are a few ways it could be connected. Low T is also correlated to peyronie's in a paper by a top urologist just out last year (morgentaller) - but the problem is that T drops with age so it's hard to know what the salient variable is in his study...age or T level. roughly half of men with Peyronies Disease have normal T levels...and most are probably healthy in the thyroid department too - but that doesn't mean these are not contributing factors in some men. if you have low T and low thyroid, certainly fixing them couldn't hurt... whether it will reverse Peyronies Disease will be hard to predict - but would take a very long time.
hyperthyroidism doesn't seem like it would have a connection from a theoretical perspective.
So far i've tried homeopathy, chinese medicine, vitamin e, b complex, quercetin, sod pills, immune-boosting herbs, creams, massage........ obviously i need to change my regime as nothing has touched it so far. The ved is all very well but comes across as being a bit bulky. How many hours a day would one have to wear it to see any difference? As for supplements, i had thought of buying serrapeptase and nattokinase, but seeing as i don't truly know what would work it's all a shot in the dark. Plus i can't afford to buy these things at the moment.
I'm doing a massage/stretching thing once a day, no results as yet but it keeps the blood circulating at least.
Thanks for the advice, keep up the good fight.
Mike,
Thanks for the reply. I had a physical done on 1-7-11 and should have the results (blood work) today 1-11-11. Fatigue, indifference to diet/exercise, slow libido, etc have crept in. All my symptons are related to both Low T and Hypothyroidism. My Doc is very liberal with meds and I am concerned a little with mixing two different treatments. I am also scheduled for implant in April. While I was talking with the Doc his nurse practioner was taking notes and when he left the room she said I needed thyroid workup as well as T. Women don't miss much. When I read symptoms of Hypo. I was pleasantly surprised at how closely related the two are, both hormonal conditions. Also. I live in a small town and something like a penile implant is hard to keep secret, a lot of people are concerned about my new bionic dick. ;D
Justin:
Somehow, you must be confused about VED therapy. One does not "wear it", but "uses it" in a controlled regimen of exercises as explained in the 26 week protocol listed in the VED board section of the main forum home page. Suggest you spend some time browsing through all the posts and threads dealing with VED therapy.
Old Man
Quote from: sgtnick on January 11, 2011, 06:37:34 AM
Mike,
Thanks for the reply. I had a physical done on 1-7-11 and should have the results (blood work) today 1-11-11. Fatigue, indifference to diet/exercise, slow libido, etc have crept in. All my symptons are related to both Low T and Hypothyroidism. My Doc is very liberal with meds and I am concerned a little with mixing two different treatments. I am also scheduled for implant in April. While I was talking with the Doc his nurse practioner was taking notes and when he left the room she said I needed thyroid workup as well as T. Women don't miss much. When I read symptoms of Hypo. I was pleasantly surprised at how closely related the two are, both hormonal conditions. Also. I live in a small town and something like a penile implant is hard to keep secret, a lot of people are concerned about my new bionic dick. ;D
If your labs show a low thyroid, you really have to treat it... if you do not, that is how you can get a goiter. The brain keeps telling the thyroid to produce (via TSH = thyroid stimulating hormone) and in response, the thyroid grows additional cells. Over years this can become a goiter - after you've gained 100 lbs and are freezing all the time thanks to low thyroid function. You definitely need to treat it.
Low T treatments is more controversial but there are easy ways to treat it like Clomid... vs. direct testosterone.
Both issues are almost entirely separate as far as I know. The two hormone pathways don't really intersect. The only rare / weird intersection is that one rarely used thyroid treatment (Cytomel) raises SHBG (Sex hormone binding globulin) which will bind up your free testosterone...but most docs to not prescribe cytomel and it doesn't raise SHBG in everyone.
Peyronie's, Lederhosen, Dupuytren's, vitiligo, hypothyroidism and hypogonadism, are all sometimes found in the same patient, indicating to me there is pituitary (primary hormone center) involvement, and perhaps a genetic component.
More recently, I have been reading about high prolactin levels in men contributing to ED, and not only by suppressing LH production. The prolactin level is not tested in men nearly as often as in women.
Hormones, yeah, they're everywhere, and they are so complicated, negative feedback, and so forth.
Ah, i'm getting ved confused with traction devices........... So how long do you use the ved for each day? I've had a 20 degree curve under the head of my penis for 3 and 1/2 years now, would it respond to a ved at this stage? I should add that it still hurts and has only ever progressed, albeit very slowly. Will it ever stop?! :-\
Justin:
The only way one can determine if the VED therapy will work for them is to try it. The best results with VED therapy have been with the three cylinder type, namely the Vitality OTC three cylinder VED or the Somacorrect VED (Requires an RX from a doctor).
Read the posts about VED therapy on the VED board shown on the home page of the forum. It explains the schedule of daily exercise session as well as other notes about VED usage.
In addition, there are many posts throughout all the threads on the VED board section of the home page menu which would be helpful for you in determining if you would want to do the VED therapy.
Old Man
Justin, I really agree with Old Man here. I would cautiously give it a try carefully following Old Man's guidance. You might even find that it brings some relief from the pain. Careful stretching of tissues can be very therapeutic. Its what they do with people in hospitals after surgery. - George
Ok, thanks guys, i'll start looking into it. I have to say that i remain skeptical, but given the state of my penis i'm willing to try anything! And if you say it works, i'll take your word......
Chronic pelvian pain is due to ligament or/and muscle damage. The overall condition is linked with physical trauma(s) (identified or not).
This is well known to trigger peyronie but in NO case depression is linked to this condition. Some people suffers from excessive collagen proliferation is a dysfonctionnal response of auto-immune system.
Ben, a lack of evidence linking two things together is not the same as a proof there is no connection.
There are abundant data linking emotional states (including depression) to increased pain and suffering. I know of no good data regarding stress and emotional changes and chronic pelvic pain, but the concept that there might be a connection is reasonable.
I think that thinking that only stress or depression accounts for pelvic pain is worse than naive - it's just plain dumb and could possibly lead folks away from good therapies as you are suggesting.
Tim
Some of this stuff being discussed appears to me to be mumbo-jumbo; very confusing. :'(
I discovered (for myself only) that I cannot maintain exceptionally good mental health without good physical health. [Re: cardio vascular workouts with weights and release of endorphins]. Also, I cannot maintain an exceptionally good physical state without a positive outlook. So, obviously I can't have one without the other.
Now, what I have not discovered is how all this will help straighten a broken/bent dick :o clogged up and distorted with plaque, scar tissue or whatever the hell turned it into a pretzel.
Trying to think Peyronies Disease away appears to me like trying to control diarrhea with "The Power Of Positive Thinking" I don't believe it will work. ;D
Quote from: sgtnick on January 21, 2011, 10:49:19 AM
Some of this stuff being discussed appears to me to be mumbo-jumbo; very confusing. :'(
I discovered (for myself only) that I cannot maintain exceptionally good mental health without good physical health. [Re: cardio vascular workouts with weights and release of endorphins]. Also, I cannot maintain an exceptionally good physical state without a positive outlook. So, obviously I can't have one without the other.
Now, what I have not discovered is how all this will help straighten a broken/bent dick :o clogged up and distorted with plaque, scar tissue or whatever the hell turned it into a pretzel.
Trying to think Peyronies Disease away appears to me like trying to control diarrhea with "The Power Of Positive Thinking" I don't believe it will work. ;D
I could not agree more with this assessment. But I would suggest that good mental health can provide the CLEAR THINKING necessary to use strategies known to work in alleviating Peyronie's symptoms rather than chasing after things like Peyrotin and Neprinol. AND, I would suggest that good physical health provides a PLATFORM for healing when it comes to Peyronie's. - George
I have never seen a posting about this but I first got Peyronies a week after I went in for a colonoscopy. It seems such a natural that that was the cause given I had nothing like it before, yet when I mentioned to my urologist he said that was impossible. I thought perhaps being in a totally inert state because of the anesthesia couple with them fooling around in there.
Anyone else connect a colonoscopy with the onset of this disease??
Thanks.
has anyone ever researched if there's a correlation between peyronie's and alzheimer's? Both involve plaques obviously?
thanks,
BSSS
Whilst I would like to chill out more and I am sure this would be beneficial in producing chemical changes in the metabolism I still think the depression is linked to lack of oxygen and glucose to the brain. My wife who has MS a totally differnt disease is now taking Neprinol (which incliudes serratiopeptidase) and suddenly after 38 years has no fatigue at all and does not get tired until normal bedtime. She can now walk for more than 50 yards without collapsing like before. I am hopefull that this will clear fibroids also. So this treatment seems to work for other diseases.
I am all in favour of being relaxed and I am sure it could have a beneficial effect but also I think that some sort of treatment to attack the actual cause of the disease is needed. My personal thoughts are that the cause is infection of the cardiovascular system. There may be many infective pathogens involved but being relaxed has certainly been shown to help the immune system fight off infections.
I thinnk the treatment needs to be multiple. Relax more, take the pills. In the meantime I wish there would be more research into what bugs are actually causing this and many other diseases. Stretching scar tissue is also known to help.
I am trying to adjust how I think about my treatments and medicines, in the same way I am trying with my running. Despite what I do, that therapy (or training) may not change the outcome. I may want a sub-4 hour marathon. Even though my training program says I "can" achieve that, on race day, it may not happen. If that is my goal, and should I not achieve it, have I 'failed?' I think not! But, if that was my dominant mind thought, it is hard to not conclude that I did fail.
It can be depressing to focus exclusively on the results, especially when they take a long time, or may never happen, or are not what you expect. My adjustment is to focus more on the daily process, and less on the outcome. Of course, with this condition, I want the desired outcome, to be straight again!
As I said, I am trying to adjust my thinking to focus more on doing the daily physical therapy (traction followed by VED), taking my medicines, and enjoying sex as often as possible. That is the best I can do, because those are what are totally under my control. Achieving a straight penis may or may not happen as a result of my current treatments.
I have not fully made this adjustment in thinking, for either running Peyronie's, but I am working on it.
Had a colonoscopy 2 months ago now have Peyronies system but think it may be blood pressure pills?
I don't see how there would be a connection between the two.
If the underlying cause is metabolic, all kinds of things could trigger Peyronie's. From colonoscopy to blood pressure pills. In fact, even the anesthesia used during a colonoscopy could theoretically trigger Peyronie's. You are dealing with a complex metabolic environment, depending on a balance of healing processes. You upset that balance that is already under pressure and all sorts of things can happen, including Peyronie's. People talk about "trauma". In actuality our bodies sustain tiny injuries day in and day out and there is a continual healing process going on. Anything that interrupts that results in disease, the kind of disease that doctors don't understand since its origins are not clear cut like a bacterial infection or an obvious imbalance of body chemistry. Instead this is a subtle, sub-clinical dysfunction in which inflammation becomes unchecked and the ability to achieve healing fades. - George
I had a colon exam done a few years ago and it seemed my problem started shortly there after .Does anyone think its possible this caued my problem or maybe just a coincidence .I dont seem to have the plague or hardness most have so Im not even sure its really peyronies or some other problem . My urologist just said take vitamin E.He never said Peyronies.
All I know is what was once straight is now curved.
Although you never know, I doubt it came from the exam.
Could just be a coincidence.
I would suggest though you go and see an andrologist, or an urologist who is specialised in this kind of problems, who is up to date with the newest studies.
Just giving vitamin E sounds he doesn't know what you have.
Luc
Luciano - the EXACT same thing happened to me.
I had a colonoscopy and a week or two later later developed Peyronies. I even posted on here and everyone said there was no cause or effect. However, since then I have found a few others on line whom this was true for them also. I am a VERY athletic person and know by body well and it is TOO MUCH of a coincidence for me. ]
I do not rule out either that perhaps it was the anesthesia (I was knocked out for it - were you?) but wish I could get a professional to investigate becasue I have found a number of people for whom this was true also. Thx and good luck
Guys, there are tens of thousands of guys out there having colonoscopies and they are not getting Peyronie's as a result. There are lots of guys with Peyronie's who have never had a colonoscopy. The reality is that Peyronie's tends to occur due to minor trauma. Minor trauma can occur as a result of every kind of medical procedure under the sun as well as a plethora of drugs or simply simple accidents. The trauma is NOT the cause, it is merely the TRIGGER. You all had something else promoting Peyronie's and then you had the colonoscopy and it tipped the balance and suddenly you have Peyronie's. You can easily be in an excellent state of health outwardly but be seriously ill inwardly. That is doctors do all sorts of diagnostic testing like blood testing and imaging. There are still serious health problems that are undetectable by any of these methods. The metabolic conditions that cause Peyronie's are in this category. They are undetectable metabolic imbalances that set you up for Peyronie's with any minor occurrence of trauma. - George
I remember awhile back, about someone from this forum saying that they may have got Peyronies Disease during surgery while knocked out. They were placed on their stomach and an erection occured, but due to the anesthetic, was unable to move. Maybe this happened to you? The difference between this and someone just sleeping one night. Is that the person just sleeping, can feel pain and be able to shift their body to prevent injury, even while sleeping.
All this is speculation as there are is not a true associated symptoms .Maybe we should make a register of symptoms and problems as a group. I have may things people think are common denominators in this disease.frozen shoulder, metopropol, simvistatins, diabetes, gout, infections and others.
Might be a good idea to collect our ailments and symptoms ,storage all that we ail from.Make a bank of all this crap we have in common if for just private discussion.At least Peyronie's would not always be of topic.Maybe another vehicle to help find a cause or the common denominater.
Such as cold feet I have so many symptoms I forgot this one when I first spoke to Crash and that was a prevalent symptom when Peyronie's came and knocked at my door.
We have many things in common but we are human and should.
Fubar
I forgot to mention I am on Metroprolol.I didnt know this was also considered a cause.
Metoprolol is a beta-blocker. Beta-blockers have a notorious association with Peyronie's. So that is just one more factor of many that played into your demise. Peyronie's is a result of low level metabolic dysfunction caused by multiple factors that come together to create a perfect storm wherein the most minor of additional injuries (like something related to the colonoscopy) would tip the balance and the result would be Peyronie's. In any other situation you would never have even known that you had been injured, since it would likely heal painlessly within hours. - George
Geoarge
I took one metopropol yesterday the first time in a year.My heart was beating out of my chest.30 minutes out. The trip began was like old times.First the runs second puking. On and on for a couple hours.
Then eyes rolling into the back of my head, like I was fighting to be awake.Nausea through out the day heavy. Feat. It goes on but I will never take this junk again.
FUBAR
Really it was hell, can not believe I chose to take it again.I was scared to death but me I go on no matter how I feel.It was as I described I did not mention the pain it put me through.I can not believe my doctors wont listen to me. It has been a year with Peyronie's and bph 186 over 120.
Fubar
I am currently taking a bunch of stuff trying to deal with my hypertension, and having some measure of success. I will PM you with some things I am learning. - George
George
I would be greatful for anything to aid me. I'm sick and tired of getting nowhere and is a major stress.
Fubar
Sorry to hear about the high blood pressure fubar, that sounds very crappy , hope you are feeling better soon.
George, could you send me that info as well by chance please? Thanks in advance.
I've been having big problems with flushing in the face and mild chest pains since starting cialis. Is it possible my regime of Cialis and pentox could be causing this. I noticed bad flushing while drinking after starting pentox and now that I've added the cialis, the flushing is bad all the time, expecially when stressed. I thinking about dropping my cialis dose to 2.5mg every other day.
Anyone experiencing bad flushing with pentox and cialis?
Guys, I posted some information on hypertension issues in the off topic area, perhaps we can discuss it there. That will save me from PMing multiple people here. - George
I made a colon exam in October and i had peyronie in December, but in November i had also a sexual trauma. And my father has Duputrien.
Last month I have been diagnosed with Peryronie's Disease.
After doing a lot of reading, and visiting an urologist, I still can't figure out why it happened to me.
There is no history of penile trauma or rough sex, however, I am practicing Tantric sex routinely for over 10 years.
The Tantric practice involves having continuous erection for a couple of hours, with varying degrees of rigidity. The erections are very satisfying and occur naturally without any aids (chemical or mechanical) and with no pain.
Questions:
* Do you know of tantric practitioners who developed Peyronies Disease?
* Can these prolonged erections be the cause of Peyronies Disease?
* If Tantric sex is continued, would it worsen the disease?
* Should I stop practicing Tantric sex?
Thanks.
The bottom line is that men of all sorts get Peyronie's Disease. Some sort of "trauma" is hypothesized to have occurred, but many of us wrack our brains trying to remember some sort of injury and cannot really find anything (or we invent something and obsess about it).
Some behaviors seem to be more risky than others, like trying to elongate the penis with jelqing, or mis-using a VED in a prolonged way at too high a pressure. But for most of us, there is not an identifiable event/cause.
Tim
Right, Tim
Perhaps the question should be asked in broader terms.
Does anyone know about cases of Peyronies Disease apparently caused by prolonged erections? (e.g., by Viagra).
I'm not referring to Priapism or over-pressurized VED, since they are already known to sometimes injure the penis and cause Peyronies Disease.
To my knowledge prolonged natural erections are not associated with Peyronie's. Some have reported developing it after prolonged bouts of fairly hard intercourse, but that is different than what Tantric involves (usually at least).
Tim
Thanks.
This is a relief (sort of).
Technically a 4hr+ erection could cause fibrosis.
Guys, I'll say it once again. Peyronie's does NOT occur because of something you DID. Peyronie's occurs due to an underlying metabolic problem. Normal guys have all sorts of penile injuries and never get Peyronie's. Extended erections cause corporal fibrosis, NOT Peyronie's. But normal guys seldom even get corporal fibrosis unless they are misusing PDE5 drugs. If you look at all the purported causes of Peyronie's on this forum, they are all over the map, from beta blockers to antibiotics, from colonoscopies to too much masturbation. But these are just rabbit trails. Until guys start to deal with the underlying metabolic issues they are just tilting at windmills. Treatments are fine AND necessary. Pentox, Ubiquinol and VED are all clearly effective. But the fire that fuels this stuff is metabolic, and at some point unless we stop pouring gas on that fire we are not going to achieve much. - George
Quote from: George999 on May 23, 2011, 03:19:38 PM
Guys, I'll say it once again. Peyronie's does NOT occur because of something you DID. Peyronie's occurs due to an underlying metabolic problem. Normal guys have all sorts of penile injuries and never get Peyronie's. Extended erections cause corporal fibrosis, NOT Peyronie's. But normal guys seldom even get corporal fibrosis unless they are misusing PDE5 drugs. If you look at all the purported causes of Peyronie's on this forum, they are all over the map, from beta blockers to antibiotics, from colonoscopies to too much masturbation. But these are just rabbit trails. Until guys start to deal with the underlying metabolic issues they are just tilting at windmills. Treatments are fine AND necessary. Pentox, Ubiquinol and VED are all clearly effective. But the fire that fuels this stuff is metabolic, and at some point unless we stop pouring gas on that fire we are not going to achieve much. - George
Is this statement supported by medical findings?
Or perhaps it is just your general impression based on anecdotal observations?
On the other hand, it seems to me that the claim about Peyronies Disease caused by penile trauma is a common knowledge among urologists since it is supported by repeated findings.
Of course there is another possibility: An underlying metabolic problem makes some guys (us) more susceptible to penile trauma.
Quote from: skunkworks on May 23, 2011, 11:06:20 AM
Technically a 4hr+ erection could cause fibrosis.
You are correct if maximal rigidity is maintained continuously without blood circulating in and out of the penis. This is a pathological condition, not a natural enjoyable erection.
Quote from: BENBEN on May 23, 2011, 04:15:47 PM
Is this statement supported by medical findings?
Or perhaps it is just your general impression based on anecdotal observations?
On the other hand, it seems to me that the claim about Peyronies Disease caused by penile trauma is a common knowledge among urologists since it is supported by repeated findings.
Of course there is another possibility: An underlying metabolic problem makes some guys (us) more susceptible to penile trauma.
Its a medical fact that many men experience considerable trauma to their penises and never develop peyronie's. It is also a medical fact that diabetics are much more likely to contract Peyronie's than non-diabetics and that implicates a metabolic factor. Common logic tells one that one doesn't suddenly go from 0% risk of Peyronie's to 50% risk with a mere 5mg/dL of serum glucose. Is it a stretch to assume that some people are probably genetically more affected by elevated (but not yet diabetic) levels of blood sugar than others? If lowering blood sugar can *reverse* kidney failure which is also considered an incurable disease, what might it do for Peyronie's. Blood sugar is *highly* inflammatory and does weird things to the blood causing damage to all the tissues it touches. Elevated blood sugar is especially toxic to the mitochondria that power our cells. But the real damage comes with a trigger. Something that upsets the equilibrium and requires the healing process to begin. At that point cells are stressed and they can't handle both injury AND elevated levels of blood sugar 24/7 AND most likely a degree of genetic damage as well. It becomes a perfect storm. Its only a matter of which organ fails first ... or second, or third, etc. - George
Referrence -> http://www.the-diabetes-detectives.com/2011/05/scientists-announce-diet-that-reverses.html (http://www.the-diabetes-detectives.com/2011/05/scientists-announce-diet-that-reverses.html)
Trying to figure out the logic of Peyronie's symptomatic treatments, it seems that there are two main methods:
* Flushing the damaged tissue with plenty of fresh blood, in order to revitalize it and regain elasticity – e.g., using heat, VED, specific drugs/supplements, etc.
* Stretching the scar tissue in order to minimize penile bents and the accompanying pain – e.g., using traction, VED, etc.
If this rational is correct, then wouldn't it be advised to encourage increasing the number and length of natural erections as much as possible (self or intercourse)?
It goes without saying that all types of treatments should be exercised with extreme care to avoid exaggerations/tissue damage.
Guys, does it make sense?
Flushing with fresh blood alone will do little good. What is required are very specific agents that address the inflammatory syndrome behind the disease. That is why there are so few substances that actually work. Pentoxifylline specifically blocks the key inflammatory agent, TGF-beta1. That is what makes it effective. CoQ10 protects cellular mitochondria from inflammatory damage, that is what makes it effective. ALC is effective via its antioxidant properties. You can go down the list. Each of the known effective substances is effective via a known pathway. Viagra and L-Arginine flood the penis with blood, but both of them have been abandoned by Peyronie's specialists because they have been found not to be effective in the long term. There is a well defined science behind the treatment of this disease and it is not about blood supply. - George
There is plenty of blood flow to a flaccid penis - an erection is not designed to "increase blood flow". Instead, erections promote the pooling of blood in the cavernosa.
Again, a normal erection that lasts a long time (ie four hours) is different than priapism.
Tim
Quote from: George999 on May 25, 2011, 09:57:00 AM
Each of the known effective substances is effective via a known pathway.
There is a well defined science behind the treatment of this disease
What are the medical mechanisms behind traction, VED, heat, massage? Why are they effective in alleviating some symptoms?
Isn't it a kind of simulation of processes occurring during natural controlled erection (intermittent, not violent)?
Traction and VED are effective through gentle stretching, not unlike when you carefully exercise damaged tissues in a rehab setting. Some have claimed that heat and massage are effective, but there is no objective evidence for that, so there are theories but no real demonstrated pathways. - George
Hi, this is my first post on these forums. I have been developing Peyronie's for about 5 months now. It began with just pain (both while flaccid and erect) and then progressed into a bend and an hourglass shape. I believe that my Peyronie's may have been caused by the Nuvaring my ex-girlfriend started using. I first noticed the pain after sex with the Nuvaring in place. We tried a couple more times with the Nuvaring and I had the same pain after sex. Then she took it out and no pain after sex. We were having sex before the Nuvaring without any pain at all. My hypothesis is that in certain positions the flexible yet hard plastic of the Nuvaring was rubbing forcefully against my penis.
Now I'm not exactly sure what to do. I just recently found this forum and am eager to try some treatments. I did go to a urologist and he told me to take ibuprofen and that once the peyronie's stabilizes there is a surgery option but he would only recommend that if I was unable to have sex. He didn't offer any other treatment options. At this moment erections are difficult and somewhat painful, the bending and hourglass shapes are very pronounced. Should I go back to my urologist and get him to prescribe Pentox? Should I start with a VED? I would consider my condition to be possibly worsening or in progress since the pain has STILL not gone away. Any help is very appreciated. I'm pretty distraught.
Thank you!
You might be on to something. I never thought about this being the cause. My ex-wife wore the Nuvaring. I never really experienced pain while she wore it, but it is possible that the friction could cause injury and one wouldn't know because of the wetness. We used it prior to her getting pregnant and then resumed using it probably 6 months or so after. My Peyronies came about 4 months after that. I can't pinpoint a specific cause, but this sounds interesting.
Jasonp:
1. Get on pentox. If current uro won't prescribe, find one who will. There are case studies available for download in PDF format here: https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,772.0.html
Print them out and show them to your uro if he's dodgy about prescribing.
2. Go see a male sexual health specialist urologist such as Dr. Levine in Chicago or Dr. Lue in San Francisco. Your uro saying "ibuprofen and wait and if it gets worse, surgery" just shows how shockingly uninformed he is about this disease. My first uro said the same thing, I ditched him and went to Dr. Lue. Best decision I ever made.
3. As for causes of this disease, don't beat yourself up trying to find a cause. I imagine that it's within the realm of possibility that the nuvaring contributed somehow but it's more likely the disease was started from a small injury, maybe even without you knowing about it.
4. The psychological aspects of this disease will eat you up, spit you out, kick you in the balls and then take your lunch money. Really. Start taking better care of your overall health. A healthy body will do a better job of healing itself. Exercise will also help get rid of depression.
5. If pain isn't an issue, keep having sex and being close with your wife. Use lots of lubrication and no girl on top.
6. Your wife is part of the team. Bring her along on your uro visits. Have her read the women's section of this forum. You are in this together.
7. Ask questions. Members of this forum are more than happy to answer your questions and talk about their experiences.
Best,
Skjald
I think there are levels of hardness of peyronies to. I've noticed with my own penis as my condition worsens my penis gets harder and less flexible. Stretching in theory should be easier when the penis isn't so "hard." I'm a big believer in the VED by the way, I used it and saw moderate results, its not a hoax. My peyronies tended to act like a "cast" around my penis and the VED helped stretch it out, i clearly gained girth and my penis looked pretty damn thick and huge after several months of working out.
Comebackid
Hello everyone, I'm new to this board and have done a preliminary scan of the forum to see if you have covered my question. Sorry if I have missed it somewhere.
Since I can rule out trauma, I am looking at particular medications as possible cause of my Peyronies. It appears that no one knows the cause for certain, but I would surely appreciate everyone's input on this question: Have you guys heard of Peyronies onset following Interferon Tx? In my research on drugs that "might" cause Peyronies, the only drug that came up that I had been on was Interferon. My Peyronies disease had stopped progressing about 4 years ago, and with a good urologists help, I was able to minimize the permanent damage.....but I don't want to reactivate the disease, and since I have to decide about more Interferon Tx, any advice is appreciated. Have you guys heard of Interferon as a cause? Also, have you heard of Peyronies being reactivated into progressive disease if a person repeats the offending agent? Thanks everyone.
I learned that Atenolol and some other beta blockers used to treat high blood pressure might be a cause of Peyronies or aid in it's progression. But nobody knows for sure. I have since had my dosage cut in half.
Hi Tristen,
Would you mind giving alittle bit of history of your Peyronies disease and how you managed to stop it's progression. Sorry I can't help you with your question so much but I'm curious about what your Urologist had done about your Peyronies 4 years ago.
Thanks
Thanks for the reply's.
I don't know that I really did anything to stop the Peyronies progression. It seems to me that it just progressed to the point it was going to, and then stopped. The interventions I did may have resolved some of that damage that had occurred to that point, but I doubt it had much to do with stopping the progression.
For me, Peyronies seemed to come on quite quickly reaching about a 45 degree bend mid shaft within one week. I didn't see a Urologist for about 6 months because I thought it was just some kind of temporary problem that would just resolve itself. The Urologist had me do the message techniques and Vitamin E. After a few months and without any obvious change (good or bad), he gave me Potaba. I took that stuff for about 6-9 months....something like that. The condition didn't improve, nor did it worsen. He said Peyronies often does that....it will progress to a certain point and stop. So, who knows if those things stopped progression. They certainly had nothing to do with any immediate improvements in the condition because there were no immediate improvements. But now, several years out, I don't have that 45 degree bend. What I am left with is like a telescoping of the shaft. It's my old normal diameter at the base, but then like 2 inches up from the base, it telescopes down by about a third and is that size the rest of the length. The length is about an inch shorter too. So, no bend, but significantly smaller in diameter and length. And being 5 years out, it sure seems like this is the most it will heal.
I have never used any of those penile suction devices or extenders, etc. But maybe it would be good for my current condition. Any thoughts on this?
As far as Interferon causing this.....I can't find any more on this, but would appreciate any feedback. The other thing I did during that time that I see pop up as a possible cause on these sites, is colonscopy. Did one of those immediately prior to Peyronies onset.
Tristen,
Welcome to the forum. It sounds like you are a very lucky man to have your curvature decrease to almost nothing.
I've had Peyronies for over 3 years now; I started with a 45 degree bend which has decreased to 35 degrees. I have been using a VED for about 2 years and I believe it has been a very important part of my therapy. There is a whole section on it in our forum. It takes a little getting used to, but I think it's well worth the effort.
GS
I had bad migraines in the past...not so much these days - but back then I used to take a prescription drug called Ansaid which looked like this:
(https://members.kaiserpermanente.org/kpweb/image/feature/026drugency/drugphotos/UPJ03050.JPG)
Then one day I was looking in my dad's closet for something (I was probably 25) and stumbled on a bottle of viagra. There were maybe 10 or 15 in there but I was incredibly curious about what it would do...and so I took one out - and I put it in my bottle of Ansaid. I probably shoulnd't have done this but I was 25 and stupid and viagra was on TV and the butt of every late night talk show joke around. So, I was curious...and as most of you know, viagra looks like this:
(http://www.revolutionhealth.com/images/multum/Viagra%20100%20mg.jpg)
I knew I had exactly 4 Ansaid pills in the bottle at the time + 1 viagra. Months later, I got a migraine headache and went to the bottle of Ansaid and took one. The next time I had a headache, I noticed there were STILL 4 Ansaid in there. I had taken the viagra last time.
I don't remember exactly what happened... but I think it's pretty obvious I accidentally took the viagra. I may have even had a priaprism - it's just not healthy to take viagra at 25 when everything is working normally - and I read somewhere that there are a few people wondering if Viagra might actually cause Peyronies Disease in susceptible people (and then other doctors want you to take it daily as a therapy). My sexual issues started shortly after this and Peyronies Disease developed a few years later... but my erection quality declined already that year. This all happened extremely slowly - but it was happening - and I had some blood tests over the years to figure out what was happening (testosterone, CBCs, etc). Everything was normal and people said it was all in my head / anxiety.
Anyway, I don't think this is "the cause" of my Peyronies Disease - but it is the one odd sexual thing I ever did. I never had any injury...and I don't have any family history of Peyronies Disease or its related disorders and I got this very very young - subsequent to an extremely slow loss of erection quality and penile size. So, I just wanted to put it out there.
I have recently read that 90% of those who are hypothyroid have an autoimmune condition called Hashimotos disease. It is where the body attacks the thyroid peroxidaise (TPO) enzyme that is used in the thryroid gland to make thryoid hormones.
This eventually distroys your thyroid gland making your hypothyroid. Many doc's do not test for Hahsimotos. It gets complicated.... but the insurance companies don't like to pay for the tests because they say it does not alter or effect treatment of hypothyroidism.
Another note about hypothyroidism is that it is very often missed. Many labs use a TSH upper limit that goes as high has 5.0 or 5.5 while most endocrinologists will consider someone Hypo if their TSH is > 3.0. Some functional medecine docs think the top limit should be even lower. A good doctor will consider symptoms along with TSH, Free T3 and Free T4 hormone levels to make a good diagnosis. Unfortunately many still only look at the TSH is alone and use an old lab limit.
The bottom line is that many people are hypothyroid and don't know it. Even worse, most of these people have an autoimmune condition and don't know it. Once you have one autoimmune condition it is easier to get another.
If you think you may have a thyroid issue insist that your doctor tests for the hashimotos antibodies. The main one is the TPO antibody but another one is the Tg antibody.
I know about this is because I have Hashimotos.
Some here have suggested Peyronies may be related to an autoimmune condition. I find this interesting and I am open hear other's thoughts on this.
Well just my 2 cents..
Doctors prescribe viagra for Peyronies Disease at low dose, i.e. 25 mg, the one you have been taking was 100mg
but i personally do not think that a 1 time 100mg viagra would cause Peyronies Disease
My doc told me taking viagra could cause Peyronies Disease but for a completely different reason.
If you have no erectile disfunction and take viagra , you will be having more , lets say "active sex" , more violent, (with violent I mean you will be going on much longer and harder). Sooner or later you will get "micro injuries" sometimes you will not even notice them. Those could cause Peyronies Disease, not the viagra itself.
(thats what my doc said... don't know if its true)
so as long as you did not have a memorably long and hard sex session after taking that pill, I personally doubt it has caused your Peyronies Disease.
(thats just a thought.. of course i do NOT know for sure)
Luc
I tried to post something on this stupid website and can not seem to figure out how BUT
my question or suspicion is that a cystoscopy can cause peyronie's disease. Have you ever heard anything about this connection?
Every urologist I ever consulted said no but then they are the ones that do cystoscopies.
ANy comments? Also if you would be so kind as to give me a hint on how to originate a new topic or post something so all can see.
Thank you very much
code name lamb
Lamb
This is a awesome site easy to navigate.I was going to tell you how easy it is.I will just give you a clue its a blue click button and it is labled new topic!
Fubar! Thanks guys for creating a great forum for treatment and healing!
I just want to update. I got my urologist to prescribe Pentox (400mg twice a day) and Cialis (2.5mg once a day) and have been on them for about a month. I am noticing a little improvement. Obviously I can't say for sure whether it is due to the drugs or if it's improving on its own. But it's the first improvement since my condition started over 8 months ago! I'll be keeping up with this treatment for a full 6 months and I'll report back in another month or so. Thanks for the support guys.
Ok, another theory to toss around. I would like to know if anyone has heard of a connection between Peyronies disease and CPPD (calcium pyrophosphate deposition disease) aka pseudo gout?
CPPD is Calcium Crystal deposits and can cause plaques in joints and other areas. I believe that Gout is Uric Acid deposits. Both seem likely candidates for causing Peyronies, and I may have one of them. Working on getting that diagnosed now.
Input appreciated,
Tristen
Tristen
I have many markers of those that get Peyronie's. I have not had a gout attack in a long time.My Peyronie's did appear during that time.
Fubar
I thought, well surely they would know if this were the cause because both Gout and CPPD are very easy to diagnose by needle aspiration to determine type of crystals found. But then, maybe no one has looked at this. Or maybe this is only true for some (subtype). But it sure fits with my history.
I would also think that if these were cause, the Peyronies would be progressive, rather than a single onset episode never to flare up again (which I understand is the rule).
It is important to know if this might be the cause because much can be done to prevent onset and progression of both these diseases.
Quote from: slowandsteady on December 12, 2009, 01:38:38 AMthat there could be some involvement with E. coli bacteria and Peyronies Disease
anal without a condom anyone?