I am quite excited about sharing this with ya'll. There is a relatively new peptide made from Endostatin currently undergoing stage II trials and it may be the world's first drug that can not only halt pulmonary and dermal fibrosis, but also reverse it.
"Investigators at the University of Pittsburgh have discovered a novel peptide that can prevent the formation of fibrosis and also work to reverse its progression.
Endostatin is a peptide derived from collagen XVIII. The innovator's data demonstrate that a subdomain of endostatin referred to as E4 can prevent the development of a fibrotic phenotype and reverse ongoing fibrosis. E4 has reduced anti-angiogenic effects suggesting that its anti-fibrotic activity is not due to this reason. E4 is thus a novel peptide-based therapy for the prevention and reversal of fibrosis of various organs including lungs, skin, liver, and other organs."
Now, we don't know whether this will work for Peyronie's or not. But if it can reverse scar tissue inside the lungs, the skin, the liver and other organs, why not on the tunica as well?
It is active orally but I haven't found out whether the effect is totally systemic or if localized injections are more effective.
This is not something a Doctor would be able to get his hands on and prescribe you. It isn't approved by the FDA. However, it is quite possible to get this peptide if you know where to look. I am actually in the talks with one of my suppliers (I am in the industry) about synthesising some of this. I guess if anyone wants to get in on it, we could set up some sort of a group buy. Either way, it bounds for more research.
Let me know your thoughts.
Some sources:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5482421/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5064443/
Novel Peptide for the Treatment of Fibrosis | Flintbox (http://www.flintbox.com/public/project/17807/)
The Anti-Fibrotic Effect of Endostatin-Derived Peptide Is Mediated By Urokinase - ACR Meeting Abstracts (http://acrabstracts.org/abstract/the-anti-fibrotic-effect-of-endostatin-derived-peptide-is-mediated-by-urokinase/)
Keep us posted
I'm interested man; good find.
Indeed. Is there any side effects profile established?
Apparently it is naturally occouring in the body but in smaller amounts. Who is the biotech working on this now? How far along in phase II?
I'm in..if kills me even better
I don't think it will kill you if it's found in the body already. However, I appreciate you not afraid to try it and report back.
@swiss: That comment makes it actually more likely for him to not report back.
@Jack1909: please consider (resuming) psychotherapy.
I suppose injection would be better for calcified plaques, as blood supply is worse there?
@Jack
Sorry Jack. I didn't mean it in any negative terms. I say that because for me I am a wuss about anything I put into my body. Some people aren't afraid of anything and willing to try whatever it takes to beat this. For me, I didnt even take pentox that was prescribed. I am really weary of medicine. I think we all need to remember that we're at a huge time in history where this thing can be cured potentially and soon.
yes I'm in , would definitely try it but it depends on the costs
I'm interested. Will we get it tested? Do we have the formula to synthesize it and the HPLC profile to get it analyzed?
Please the guys who try to teach lessons to jack, like he should try psychotherapy and others BS.., you think he has not tried everything already? Do you really think so? His situation may be possibly the worst here or nearly, from what I read about him, pain for 24 hours, not being able to do sports, showering, not only have ED, but have constant pain with or without erections, and some here try to give him lessons of how he should feel or do things, I'm sure he's already tried almost everything, damn I do not think any of us should tell Jack( or anyone) what to do or how he should feel because it seems in this forum some people always seem to be willing to give moral lessons and tell others how they should feel, and if I and many others here are thinking about suicide many times, I can not imagine what jack can be thinking or feeling and how tough his situation could be, and how strong he must be to move on despite everything.
I'm definitely interested. A bit more research would be nice, but we may BE that research.
Perhaps we can organize a bulk purchase discount for those of us here who are willing to give it a go. It certainly sounds promising.
Not a huge fan of psycho-anything...it is pretty much pseudo science. While my PDS isn't painful except during a strong (uselessly curved) erection, I am no stranger to persistent pain. I think I'm developing a spur in my neck which will need attention soon on top of other issues too numerous to list without sounding like I'm trying to one up others here.
The best any of us can do is encourage each other to hang on...changes like the one being discussed here are inevitable, and if not this, perhaps the next one will be "it", and at the pace of research and change in medicine the "next" development could be as soon as next week.
I don't know. Medicine took me right where I am now.
Thanks Scominsoon for the words..the problem is that people do not really understand. For example, No one will understand what does it mean get through three surgeries on it... it's something you might not recover from at all.
Please add me for any bulk purchase. Thxs
I have tried most of the supplements and medicines discussed here...normally with unacceptable side effects. I gave up on Pentox and various circulation improvement supplements for the same reason. Unacceptable headaches and just plain felt like crap. I'm in a "waiting" mode right now for things like this which address the fibrosis issue directly. All manner of fibrosis conditions are potentially curable if this develops into anything usable. I am definitely going to watch this one.
Can we do a group buy for e4, bpc-157 and tb-500? I think the three of them together would have the best chance...
I have some initial pricing details, but what do you think about dosing? In studies on mice they found that a single dose of 20 μg successfully removed fibrosis, or three doses of of 10 and 5 μg respectively. An equivalent single (20 μg) human dose would be around 5mg orally. How much should we get?
There is also a company called iBio which has made their own version of the peptide, which they call IBIO-CFB03. They seem to be looking for candidates who would like to try it. More info here: iBio Anti-Fibrosis Portfolio Expanded to Include Orally Delivered Peptides (http://www.ibioinc.com/news/press-releases/detail/60/ibio-anti-fibrosis-portfolio-expanded-to-include-orally)
Lmao you guys are hero's if this works. But I suppose people put narcotics in their bodies and aren't scared of crap. I'm such a sissy.
I think Decorin may also fall into this category of being a known anti-fibrotic that occurs naturally in the body.
A lot of work has also been done with this molecule and it may have even have been tried in certain fibrotic conditions already. There is a lot online if you search. Much like E4, haven't found anything on Decorin and Peyronies but reading shows the potential, as Peyronies pathology is essentially the same problem.
This is a decent example and kind of covers what I mean : Using decorin, an anti-fibrosis agent, to improve muscle recovery after injury | Sports Injury Bulletin (http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/decorin.htm#)
How big can the jump be from this, to safely administering this naturally occurring molecule into Peyronies plaques !!!!!!!! ?
I'm of the opinion that these compounds would need to be injected. You'd want to keep it as local as possible thereby keeping introduced doses as low as possible and minimizing any systemic side effects
Are there instances of necessary fibrosis in the body?
The issue with Decorin that I see is that it is preventative in nature. One would have to begin administering it immediately after injury in order to prevent the fibrosis from developing. I don't know if it has any fibrosis reduction capacity as the study referenced above has no specifics concerning already developed fibroses.
Quote from: skunkworks on September 10, 2017, 11:41:42 PM
Are there instances of necessary fibrosis in the body?
Not sure of the point you're making. I didn't write the paper I linked to below or any of the other papers on Decorin. The fact Decorin is not synthetic is a fact and the role it plays in Fibrosis is a fact based on the many papers I have read about it. One would assume, like many biochemical processes in the body it exists as a process attentuator. Maybe in the healing process - which is fibrosis to a degree
Quote from: kuaka on September 11, 2017, 10:18:32 AMOne would have to begin administering it immediately after injury in order to prevent the fibrosis from developing.
It's possible Kuaka but I obviously read well beyond the paper I posted. That paper was just a good straightforward start point to introduce other members here to Decorin. As usual with anti fibrotics, much of the work is pulmonary and hepatic. Other papers in that respect have suggested Decorin could reverse fibrosis in those tissues. As we all know, none of the anti fibrotics we discuss get tested on Peyronies plaques unfortunately
Quote from: Gutted on September 11, 2017, 02:32:05 PM
Not sure of the point you're making. I didn't write the paper I linked to below or any of the other papers on Decorin. The fact Decorin is not synthetic is a fact and the role it plays in Fibrosis is a fact based on the many papers I have read about it. One would assume, like many biochemical processes in the body it exists as a process attentuator. Maybe in the healing process - which is fibrosis to a degree
That is a strangely argumentative reply to a general question not even specifically aimed at you.
The point I am making is pretty obvious, could there be any potential downsides to introducing a potent anti fibrotic peptide systemically?
The fact that it occurs naturally in the body means little with regards to safety. Insulin is a naturally occuring hormone in the body, and if you add enough it will kill you. Exogenous introduction of substances which occur naturally in the body still carries risk.
Probably safer than heroin I suppose. But that's the risk that these brave hero's are willing to take.
Quote from: JayGould on September 09, 2017, 05:19:22 AMThey seem to be looking for candidates who would like to try it.
If you read the page you linked, they are looking for "product candidates", meaning: how do we productize this in order to make money? one candidate could be a pill for idiopatic pulmonary fibrosis, one other candidate could be a pill for cirrosis, ... At least that's how I interpret it...
@JayGould: how expensive would be say 8 doses, or 40mg? do we need to get this synthesized or there are already existing suppliers? is it a gray market or it's legal to buy openly for personal consumption?
interesting!! keep us informed!
@JayGould: do you still want to do a group buy?
Hey pey ron, sorry I have been away for a while. Unfortunately this peptide is pretty cost prohibitive, the cheapest I could find was around $2900/mg (as long as one does not want to go with a Chinese manufacturer). Here is a site that sell it in packages of 100ug for $350, so almost the same price:
https://www.phoenixpeptide.com/products/view/Peptides/090-03
As a human dose would be around 5mg, the cost for one dose would be around $15,000. So for me, at this stage at least, it's not a gamble I am willing to take. But if your Peyronie's is severe and you are well loaded, I don't see why not.
There are some other interesting peptides that you can buy quite cheaply and easily however (about $100 for a full cycle). You may want to look into GHK-Cu, which increases the amount of elastin and has a composition very close to how your tunica is built. The injections act systemically. I think injections with GHK-Cu along with traction/VED could really do some good. Another one to look at is Epitalon and BPC-157 (which has already been mentioned).
There are anecdotal reports of GHK-Cu online that says they reduce old scars, like in this reddit thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/5rana6/can_copper_peptide_ghkcu_reduce_old_scars_how/
GHK can also be used topically. Mixing it with DMSO and applying it directly on your Peyronie's scar would be an interesting experiment, something I am going to try myself asap.
Gutted - Decorin is really interesting, thank you for bringing it up. Have you read anything about scar reversal with it?
GHK-Cu actually stimulates the body's own production of decorin, according to this source:
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/bmri/2014/151479/
JayGould, Please keep us posted on any results from your GHK/DMSO experiment. It sounds affordable and promising.
I have some ~8 years old GHK-Cu from Cellbone Technologies. I wonder if it would be still good... I had kept it refrigerated until March 2017. Then I don't know where I put it....
Will do kuaka.
I am thinking of getting 200ug of E4 and take half orally and the other half with DMSO directly on the plague. It could be a worthwhile experiment.
so you are kindly gonna be our guinea pig and report back to us?
Yes, I tried a topical solution with 60-70% DMSO + GHK-Cu + BPC 157. I put that on my bruises (which I recently got from Priapus injections). Can't say whether the extra GHK-Cu and BPC 157 had any additional effect. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. Will continue using it.
I am thinking of injecting BPC 157 + GHK-Cu directly into the corpus cavernosa. According to my latest ultrasound, my Doc said my tunica was fine but my cavernosa may have sustained some damage. What do you guys think about that?
Have you noticed improve with prp jaygould?
@JayGould: where did you get your 200ug of E4 peptide? How much did it cost?
suicide: No but the Dr said it will take a minimum of 10-12 weeks before it starts to have an effect. Right now it looks worse because it is all purple/black from bruising.
pey ron: I haven't bought any yet but you can get some here:
https://www.phoenixpeptide.com/products/view/Peptides/090-03
And what do you think would be the best protocol to follow? drink it up in a single oral dose?
I would probably say inject it into your penis. But orally worked in studies, but that was a much latger dose.
Quote from: JayGould on October 11, 2017, 04:55:25 PMorally worked in studies, but that was a much larger dose.
The human dose is are the numbers I derive from the first study:
17 | average mouse weight in grams |
20 | E4 dose per mouse in micrograms |
1176.47059 | mouse dose in micrograms per kilo |
6.2 | conversion factor for human dose |
189.753 | human dose in micrograms per kilo |
70 | average human weight in kilos |
13.282732 | human dose in micrograms |
So, we need 14 milligrams. That costs 50 grands. :'(
Any news on this front?
E4, Decorin, and now M10: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2016-04-anti-fibrotic-peptide-early-interstitial-lung.html
Bump
Has anyone tried this peptide or others so far? Someone's willing to do?
I am really interested in this. News, Jay?
iBio Selects Fusion Protein as Lead Candidate for New Scleroderma Treatment
https://sclerodermanews.com/2018/03/16/ibio-scleroderma-treatment-candidate-e4-fusion-protein-moves-into-early-testing/
rpeptide has E4 for $375 for 1mg. https://www.rpeptide.com/products/proteins/apo-e/a-2017-4
Quote from: yelloweagle on September 05, 2020, 01:17:10 PM
rpeptide has E4 for $375 for 1mg. https://www.rpeptide.com/products/proteins/apo-e/a-2017-4
are you sure this is the same exact peptide as Phoenix is selling? This seems different
Alright guys, I talked to a few China suppliers. From one supplier:
E4 endostatin peptide. 2-3 grams
usd 3000/g , 4-6 weeks for the prodcution.
From another supplier:
Yeah, we can customize various peptide products, and polypeptide products are also our advantage products.
I contacted the factory,They need to know what form of salt is required.What are the packing requirements.
We need more specific information in order to make the products more accurately.
For both requests, I sent them this link: https://www.phoenixpeptide.com/products/view/Peptides/090-03 which shows the sequence and should be all they need (?).
Can someone help me with this so we can get this over the finish line and trial it? I am not sure on the salt question, and also what needs to be done to the peptide to make it ok for oral consumtion/absorbtion.
Thanks
Quote from: AlmostBlue on October 15, 2020, 12:21:41 PM
Alright guys, I talked to a few China suppliers. From one supplier:
E4 endostatin peptide. 2-3 grams
usd 3000/g , 4-6 weeks for the prodcution.
From another supplier:
Yeah, we can customize various peptide products, and polypeptide products are also our advantage products.
I contacted the factory,They need to know what form of salt is required.What are the packing requirements.
We need more specific information in order to make the products more accurately.
For both requests, I sent them this link: https://www.phoenixpeptide.com/products/view/Peptides/090-03 which shows the sequence and should be all they need (?).
Can someone help me with this so we can get this over the finish line and trial it? I am not sure on the salt question, and also what needs to be done to the peptide to make it ok for oral consumtion/absorbtion.
Thanks
Ehy bro, hope here. But how do we assume E4, even if we put our hands on it? Do we have to eat or inject?
We could get it tested, but I trust these guys.
It would be taken orally. Can we nail down what the correct dosage would be? Pey Ron said 14mg per day for humans I believe. Are we sure about this?
Quote from: pey ron on October 11, 2017, 10:14:20 PM
The human dose is are the numbers I derive from the first study:
17 | average mouse weight in grams |
20 | E4 dose per mouse in micrograms |
1176.47059 | mouse dose in micrograms per kilo |
6.2 | conversion factor for human dose |
189.753 | human dose in micrograms per kilo |
70 | average human weight in kilos |
13.282732 | human dose in micrograms |
So, we need 14 milligrams. That costs 50 grands. :'(
Hey man,
How sure are you on these calculations?
Would you recommend a dose of 14mg per day for 5 days in a row? Or something like that.
I have a doubt about the conversion factor used in the calculation: was there confusion between mouse and rat?
A rat does not weigh 17 grams. As far as I know the conversion factor for the mouse is 3, half that of the rat (6).
So the dose should be halved.
Hello people,
A new article about E4 published December 22, 2021.
https://insight.jci.org/articles/view/144935
I really would like to try this stuff, not afraid to inject stuff but for me ( gut fibrosis), i think encapsuling this peptide in an enteric coated may be the best, nevertheless i really wonder how many times this peptide has to be used to really reduce fibrosis...Once a day ? Once a week ? Duration of a cycle ? :(
I have recent scars due to surgery ( gynecomastia), maybe it could be a good indicator points...it his peptide works, scars may reduce....
Some of you have recent inputs about this peptide ?
Salut Nixeus, and happy new year :)
it's funny how your nickname here is the anagram of your nickname elsewhere :)
Quote from: pey ron on January 01, 2022, 02:21:01 AM
Salut Nixeus, and happy new year :)
it's funny how your nickname here is the anagram of your nickname elsewhere :)
Haha, good point :)
Happy new year !
So...What about E4 peptide :) ?
Quote from: Nixeus on December 31, 2021, 08:03:49 AM
Hello people,
A new article about E4 published December 22, 2021.
https://insight.jci.org/articles/view/144935
I really would like to try this stuff, not afraid to inject stuff but for me ( gut fibrosis), i think encapsuling this peptide in an enteric coated may be the best, nevertheless i really wonder how many times this peptide has to be used to really reduce fibrosis...Once a day ? Once a week ? Duration of a cycle ? :(
I have recent scars due to surgery ( gynecomastia), maybe it could be a good indicator points...it his peptide works, scars may reduce....
Some of you have recent inputs about this peptide ?
> Another 2021 paper : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8491667/
I'm trying to read the article you posted on E4 Peptide and there's so much terminology outside of my knowledge. I don't know how anyone who doesn't literally study fibrosis is supposed to respond to this other than just be very glad that there's some people in the world who do understand this stuff.
And that persons me and most other lurkers here, we're very glad you posted that update on E4 Peptide even though we don't fully understand the technicalities of how it works. Thank you Nixeus!
It's a pleasure. I don't think BPC-157 and GHK-CU could be enough to remove fibrosis...def not.
Actually...due to my reading, there is TWO peptides candidate for removing fibrosis : This Endostatin E4 and a more recent : B7-33 !
B7-33 has no humans trials actually but some people on reddit tried it for other conditions...No sides effects actually...I really would like to try this E4 or B7-33 but i don't like the idea to use it whitout humans data before ( amount to use....)
I maybe should do a thread about the B7-33 peptide.
More infos there : https://www.peptidesciences.com/b7-33-6mg
There is a good summary about this peptides, in addition, it's pretty cheap to manufacturate :)
Where do these studies ever go? Im guessing no where :(
We don't have to wait for an approval...just to be sure this can be sure to be used on humans...then, we could try it.
Looks like BPC 157 is used in USA successfully within 90 days. (https://www.thenovuscenter.com/treatments-los-angeles/peyronies-disease/) (https://anchor.fm/novus-tv/episodes/82--Stephanie-Wolff---Can-You-Treat-Peyronies-with-BPC-157-ei0e0e)
I have good results since adding BPC 157 into my routine. Seems that this injection is reducing the hardness of my scar. I inject 500mcg into the skin (not the corpus) near my injury everyday after RestoreX and before BathMate. I've used BPC 157 for almost 2 weeks
Sutr - Thanks for posting those articles, that's the first time I have heard of BPC-157 being used for peyronies by a medical practice.
I know some users here have tried BPC-157 to no avail, but I am not sure whether they received the treatment from a doctor. In Australia, it can be very difficult to get genuine peptides.
Please update us with your progress.
If is true it will change my life, the fibrosis on my penis it turned my life upside down