Peyronies Society Forums

Peyronies Disease TREATMENT Discussion Boards => Alternative Treatments of Peyronie's Disease => Topic started by: JS1991 on August 11, 2018, 08:25:20 PM

Title: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on August 11, 2018, 08:25:20 PM
Is there any record of anyone trying this for Peyronie's disease? I plan on starting one for my hard flaccid/deflated glans and going straight into a ketogenic diet upon completion, with intermittent fasting. I've heard that after a certain number of days, your body starts eating away at scar tissue, and you begin to be left with healthier tissue in it's place. Anyone know anything about this?

Edit: Well, if no Peyronie's sufferers have tried it yet, I will pioneer it and post the results when I do!
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: james1947 on September 06, 2018, 09:27:53 PM
Tried long time ago, much before Peyronies started so no data about helps or not.
I lost 4 kg in 6 days, but I was very weak .

James
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on September 06, 2018, 11:52:09 PM
See:  Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet - Peyronies Society Forums [Page 2] (http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php?topic=8707.50;topicseen)
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: 22andpeyronies on September 25, 2018, 05:13:41 PM
I am interested in water fasting for peyronies too. Another member said that he fasted for 20+ days and it cured him. Sounds too good to be true for me personally. I believe in theory your body will start eating away at proteins only after all the fat has been burned/ used. So it could be beneficial to get as lean as possible before fasting I suppose. also regarding the eating away at proteins, I heard it could be dangerous. Your heart and organs are composed of these proteins and your body will probably start eating away at these organs too if Im not mistaken after many days fasting. If you water fast please do it under supervision as it is very dangerous if youre going for many days straight. All the best
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: swiss on September 25, 2018, 10:35:25 PM
Sounds danger bros. I don’t condone water fasting. Water is life.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on September 25, 2018, 11:22:37 PM
As far as I know water fasting refers to only consuming water during the fast. Without water would be a dry fast, and I think that would be a very silly idea.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on September 29, 2018, 05:36:25 AM
The idea is that it eats away all scar tissue and waste material in your body. Many people have had scars, warts, stretch marks, loose skin, etc. completely disappear. It also reportedly clears out a lot of health issues, so I'm curious to see what happens. And yes, by water fast I mean consume nothing but distilled water for 7-40 days, depending on how far you want to go. I've heard nothing but positive results so far. I plan on doing it before 2019 so I'll update this thread as I get closer to it.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on September 29, 2018, 11:56:10 AM
Unless there’s any medical research supporting water fasting I’d stick to a low carb anti-inflammation diet.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: 22andpeyronies on September 29, 2018, 03:07:38 PM
I am also interested in doing a water fast. Perhaps just for one or two days to test it out before going for a week or so. The plague in my penis is spreading so I would do just about anything to prevent it from getting bigger and reverse it.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on September 29, 2018, 05:05:34 PM
Well, the whole point of water fasting is to induce autophagy. Yoshinori Ohsumi won a Nobel prize for his research on autophagy in 2016: https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/2016/press-release/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5240711/ https://lifespa.com/fasting-research-wins-nobel-prize-medicine-right/

On top of that we have anecdotal evidence from some of our own members that water fasting has helped greatly, with results that logically coincide with the process of autophagy (example: I found a cure.. - Peyronies Society Forums (http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,10578.0.html)) as well as anecdotal evidence from others that it has erased scars, warts, etc. In case you guys haven't noticed, my strategy is essentially "try everything that has been said to work" so I'm 100% going to do it. The longer the better, so I'll go as long as I can when I do it. I'm already in the phase of my research where I'm analyzing safety precautions and safely implementing the fast, so no worries on that end. I should mention that you can go about it with intermittent fasting if you want (which I plan on doing when I'm done), but the most dramatic results would obviously be seen in a full-blown water fast of extended duration. Also, if anyone is interested or doubtful I can link to more.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on September 29, 2018, 06:55:47 PM
Perhaps a good combo is keto diet with no eating 3 hours before sleep and w a total 12 hour overnight fast.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on September 29, 2018, 07:06:15 PM
I did 4 days of water fasting. That is WATER fasting - no tea or coffee allowed. Drinking tea or coffee messes things up.

It stimulates something called autophagy, which is very good for you.

3 changes - Peyronies Disease scar became somewhat softer, lost water and fat mass (no muscle loss according to my BF% scale), and my beard grew out slower for a month (it returned to normal slowly).
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on September 29, 2018, 07:29:25 PM
Tsanchez, I currently eat like crap (fast food, etc. I don't really watch what I eat). The plan is to water fast for an extended duration, and end it by transitioning into a keto diet with a 6-8 hour feeding window, with the other 16-18 hours being a fast.

Christopher, I'm glad to hear of your results, thank you for sharing! I can only imagine what it is like to go for 7-21 days and beyond.

Edit: Also, at a minimum I plan on IV'ing a dose of stem cells into my bloodstream the day I begin my fast as well.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on September 29, 2018, 07:34:37 PM
Water fasting:
Day 1: No problem. Lots of time and more energy. Also easy on the wallet.
Day 2: More energy.
Day 3: Relaxed. Heart rate around 60. But weak. Definitely not a time you want to be running or lifting heavy objects. No problems.
Day 4: Starting to feel not so good. Bilateral flank pain as well - but nothing severe. I gave up and I started eating some boiled eggs.

I might push it again, but 4 days was tough for me. I think 2 to 3 days is good. With more practice, I will try to push it to a week. Overall, I am far more productive (no time wasted on eating, no sugar crashes, and lots of mental energy) and I have more money in my wallet.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on September 29, 2018, 07:35:52 PM
You're welcome JS1991.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on September 30, 2018, 06:34:14 AM
Hey thanks JS and Christopher for your experimentations and great advice!! I'm gonna try a 3 days apple monodiet in a short time (just for fitness reasons), then may go on water fasting like you in a few months... I will keep reading your posts with interest and gratitude :-)!!

Bye,

G
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Werther on September 30, 2018, 11:11:02 AM
This sounds too good to be true.

By the way I whish success to anyone who's gonna try it and I look forward to hear positive results.

However, with regards to autophagy, I'm not totally sure that it always ameliorates fibrosis; I've found a paper on pubmed about autophagy and liver fibrosis and in its conclusions it's stated that: "Autophagy may help cells to live through stress conditions and attenuate inflammation, leading to fibrosis reduction. Autophagy is involved in collagen degradation, which may contribute to fibrosis attenuation. However, autophagy fuels HSCs to be activated and promote fibrosis" (here's the link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4528272/).

I'm no reasearcher, so I don't understand that much about the paper linked above, but it appears to me that autophagy may be helpful in the early acute phase of a fibrotic disease (by inihibiting fibrotic tissue from spreading further), but it may not help at all or it could even worsen the problem if it's already chronic. Besides I don't really know how much water fasting induces autophagy.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: loloc on October 09, 2018, 12:24:33 PM
"This sounds too good to be true."

Many claimed possible stabilization techniques sound like fantasy or snake oil stories, but I'm trying to figure how someone would get benefits from these reports on benefits of keto or fasting. Someone please tell me that if not reverse the condition, this made the disease stabilize.

"Besides I don't really know how much water fasting induces autophagy."

It makes sense that if the body doesn't have nutrient income starts eating unused cells.

I also like skeptical and challenging point of view, to avoid being fooled, but plz think twice before destroying some theory that shows some light in this darkness if it looks like coming from a disinterested suggestion.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: loloc on October 09, 2018, 12:25:34 PM
Ah yes btw I'm back four years later, this acute phase came back  :'(
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Werther on October 09, 2018, 05:21:12 PM
@loloc:

I don't feel like I "destroyed this theory", since I merely shared my doubts about this approach. In fact, if you thought twice before replying to my message, you would have read that I'd be glad to hear about positive results from people who's going to give this a try.

Besides, the fact that people promoting this wouldn't get any benefit from such suggestions doesn't necessarily mean that this procedure is totally unharmful. Even people who suggest jelqing on pegym forums don't get any benefit from guys who try out their exercises, but this doesn't mean that jelqing is safe and works (on the contrary lots of guys came here because of these so called miraculous excerises).
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: loloc on October 09, 2018, 05:50:11 PM
Fair enough. This crap distorts my rational thinking.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on October 10, 2018, 12:16:54 AM
I don't believe it was destroyed either, I have some articles I could link of other types of fibrosis being reduced by autophagy but I'd like a more complete body of work before I post my reply. Overall I still believe in water fasting and plan on going 14-40 days.

Edit: Until I collect my research, here you go: https://jasn.asnjournals.org/content/25/12/2835 "Autophagy Regulates TGF-β Expression and Suppresses Kidney Fibrosis"

I want everyone that is keeping track of this thread to consider the following. We are battling a disease and have a few members who are willing to literally test everything. It is not negative and I believe Werther understands that. Nobody is trying to push snake oil on anyone. We go by facts and if I personally am confronted by a fact contradicting my views not only will I readily accept and adopt the view, I will be happy it happened because I do not want to be ignorant of the truth. The ultimate goal is full understanding of the disease along with a path to healing, and I believe we as a community are doing a good job figuring this out. Ego does not come into play here. Everything I do is based on logic as I aggressively seek a cure, or at least a route to suppression of the disease.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Faithto1 on October 17, 2018, 02:05:42 PM
Hi all,
I'm new to this forum, recently developed peyronies. Looking for a way to heal.

WATER FASTING is an interesting idea, but there are some things you should be aware of.
First DO NOT USE DISTILLED WATER. Distilled water will leach vital minerals and other nutrients out of your body especially your bones - this can cause all kinds of health issues. Use good quality drinking water, or spring water etc.

Second the way your body reacts to a water fast is like this: First your body will scavenge your GI tract for nutrients (glucose - for energy), this lasts about 24 hours to 36 hours. Next your body will tap your liver for glucose (actually bile duct gland) and get another 18 to 24 hours worth of energy (glucose).
Once this is tapped out your body will start to convert muscle to energy. The time this lasts varies greatly depending on the individual. The more muscle one has the longer this phase lasts. But it also depends on how active one is and how much a person uses their muscles. Essentially your body will convert muscle to energy until your body determines it can't tap your muscles anymore b/c you need the muscle that's left for your level of daily activities. (This phase can last anywhere from 3 or 5 days to 20 days or so).

Once your muscles have been tapped as much as they can then your body will start to convert fat to energy. This phase can vary greatly also depending on how much fat you have.

The reason your body converts muscle first, before fat is that it is more efficient. It takes less energy for your body to convert muscle than fat. Your body will always process and function in the most efficient way. Converting fat to energy requires a lot of energy so your body is spending a lot of energy to get energy - very inefficient - but good for fat loss, b/c you are getting a doubling effect - at this point you will lose fat fast.

Maximum total days for water fast range from about 10 to about 40 depending on the person. Should be done with medical supervision or at least a phone check in.

One thing to keep in mind is your changing your muscle to fat ratios when you do this for any length of time. If you do this say for 5 to 10 days you will probably lose quite a bit of muscle and little fat so your ratio will become lower muscle to more fat, b/c you haven't reached the point where body is converting fat to energy.

If you do this plan on going for long enough to start converting fat to energy - again time varies per individual. so you can keep your ratios healthy.

I have considered trying this for peyronies also, but haven't as of yet. Not sure I can do long enough. I would think that you have to get to the fat burning stage for it to work - just my logic given how water fasting works. In theory to me it seems like it should work. Water fasting is also supposed to reset the body.

Please let us know how it goes and if it helps.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on October 17, 2018, 05:52:57 PM
Hey Faith, welcome to the forum and thanks for the insight. Do you have any experience water fasting? I have to disagree with you on muscle loss. Ketosis kicks in a lot quicker than you describe (even an intermittent fast of 12+ hours per day induces ketosis) and from what I've read the general consensus is you retain the majority of your muscle, and this includes information gained via anecdotal evidence.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on October 20, 2018, 04:06:06 AM
Hello Faith,

Yep, welcome here, and thanks for your very interesting post!!

I'll be delighted to read about your experience on water fasting, as it is one of the next things I think about trying to improve my Peyronies Disease (and I tried a lot of things). So yes, please report!

And I agree with JS: don't worry about losing muscular mass on fasting. I myself have read a lot of information about carbs/proteins/lipid metabolism (+ neoglucogenesis, etc.) for one or two years, and they were indeed very contradictory. But the empirical thing is: I've been on intermittent fasting for like 4-5 months and a half now, and have not lost any gram of muscle mass (I've actually made progress on my 2-3 weekly trainings). Even better: I did a 3 days monodiet last week, eating only apples so no significant (if any) intake of proteins, and had my training two days after I was finished: stable performance, sames weights, very good energy... So no loss of muscle mass!

Last stuff: I recently talked to my uro, which is a also a great sportsman (he makes 150 - 200km bicycle races), and he is convinced that 12 - 16h of IF or 40 min of cardio exercise on empty stomach already triggers ketosis. I didn't know that, and don't know to how extent it's true, but I tend to trust him...

So, cheer up and don't get too scared!!!

Bye :-),

G
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: sorinu1991 on October 27, 2018, 12:01:04 PM
   Hi there, i saw this topic recently after it was initiated so i wanted to give it a shot, so here is my experience.
   After i saw the topic i started to fast for 12hours at first, on a weekend. The next weekend i fasted for 1 day and half, in the third week for 2 days and half and the forth week for 3 day. So far wasn t so bad, yeah i had some casual headaches but other then that was ok. So i decided to not do any fast for 2 weeks to recover and then go for the long run. For my surprise i managed to fast for 14 days, just finished a few days ago. The worst days were the first 4-5 days (some headaches, naushea), after that was pretty much ok(actually i felt really good). By day 8 i noticed that i got rid off most off my fat, exept for some on my belly. By day 10 i noticed my body wasn t consuming fat anymore and shifted to muscle mass. But i wasn t getting improvements with my peyronie, so i decided to go on for a few more days to see what happens. So there i was in day 14, with 0 improvements in my peyronie(at least not noticeable), so i decided to stop because my body was still feedind on my muscles.
   So there it is my experience guys, sorry not much to help with. Probably its required a longer period, but in case would meant to loose to much muscle mass, so no for me.
   Thow, there is one thing were i could messed up during my fast, but i am not sure. During the last days of fasting i realized that the liquid soap that i was using contains milk protein and i know for sure that even the slightest amount of protein inhibits the autophagy process. What i don t know is how much of that protein got thru the skin in the blood, because the skin is not that permissible.
   
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on October 27, 2018, 05:35:52 PM
Thanks for sharing your experience! I have no idea if that soap could affect anything; I've often wondered about things like that though (sugar in toothpaste for example!). A few questions: are you in acute or chronic phase? How long have you had Peyronie's? Can you describe your scarring (location, size, number, etc.)?

I have plenty of fat on me, so I'm hoping to go 28-42 days. Looking forward to posting my experience!
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on October 28, 2018, 04:27:57 AM
Hey Sorinu,

Thanks a lot for your input, it's not because you did not have improvements that's it's not valuable; it is!!!

For myself, I do not think that the protein soap would contain can pass the skin, be bioavailable and used by your metabolism... It would mean that taking a hot bath makes your blood vessels fill with water, no???

Well, anyway thanks again buddy, and stay strong!
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on October 28, 2018, 06:54:23 AM
Re milk proteins passing through the skin, apparently it's possible - Food allergy may arise through our skin | ScienceNordic (http://sciencenordic.com/food-allergy-may-arise-through-our-skin)
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on October 29, 2018, 04:11:06 AM
Wow wow WOW... I don't know if this can affect the fasting process, but it's very interesting!!
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: sorinu1991 on October 31, 2018, 05:07:19 PM
hi js1991, I am in the chronic phase. I have the plaque for over 8 years.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Apmark on November 05, 2018, 10:35:56 PM
I did a couple of 4&5 day fasts a long time ago. Felt fantastic after it. I did it after I read Dr Durham cured a bone spur in his ankle and decided not to have a procedure for it. Mind you it took him 60 days I think
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on November 17, 2018, 04:21:25 PM
An update: I'm finally off of an addicting medication that I was on for years (Xanax), which has now enabled me to do a water fast! I'm so happy. The plan is to do a long water fast starting on New Year's day. I might do a shorter fast in December as well. I do know that it will be beneficial for me to ease into the process by doing intermittent fasting/shorter water fasts first, which I plan on starting after Thanksgiving. I'll keep everyone updated.

Also interesting: https://www.reddit.com/r/fasting/comments/7mkfkv/fasting_cured_my_what_are_your_stories/ definitely worth a read.

Edit: After going through that entire thread, I don't think I've ever seen so many strangers post so many miraculous success stories of ailments being totally cured in one thread. It seems to be either the real deal or the biggest scam ever. This autophagy stuff is exciting.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on November 17, 2018, 04:31:24 PM
Looking forward to hearing from anyone who has measureable peyronies improvement from water fasting!  Please post.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: james1947 on November 18, 2018, 03:32:33 PM
Tony

Without being cynical, I don't think you will get such a post 8)

James
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on November 18, 2018, 07:13:40 PM
I have already made such a post.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on November 25, 2018, 07:16:07 AM
LOL

@JS: go go go man, we're behind you and eager to read another good fasting experience; I'll come to that too in a few months!
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on November 26, 2018, 12:01:48 AM
Best type of water fast is from a diet called the Snake Diet. You can YouTube it.

His "Snake Juice" is actually how you want to water fast. Just drinking water will dilute electrolytes. I know he kind of screams in his videos, but the diet is super legit. Optimal for autophagy and healing.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on November 26, 2018, 02:24:29 AM
I've come across his videos several times but got turned off by the screaming. I guess I'll give it another try lol.

Edit: After watching the videos, I have to say that this guy put together pretty much all of my ideas into a fasting system. Saved me a lot of trouble to be honest, and I think I'll be following his route. I really wish he wasn't so annoying in his videos but hey, I'll take what I can get. Looking forward to a dry fast after I gain experience!
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Bubba dawg on November 26, 2018, 06:25:48 AM
Maybe peyrones is caused by a lack of certain nutrients. No wonder some of you fasters are having headaches. The brain needs certain nutrients to function properly. The body does not store many vital nutrients. I have known some people with not a inch of fat on them and they got alzheimer's. Which is caused by plaque in the brain. Plaque can form anywhere. My doctor has a lot of experience with this disease.  He recommended taking 1200 units a day  vitamin e along with xiaflex. E is a natural softener that is recommended for heart patients for a long time. May a e deficiency contributed to my peyrones? Google it. He did not mention starving myself for any length of time. E is not a dangerous thing to try. E by itself won't get rid of peyrones. 1500 per injection dollar meds won't get rid of peyrones. Fasting though can detrimental to your health seeing how your body needs vitamins, minerals and protein daily. I think it would be hard to pinpoint fasting helping peyrones. Peyrones has been known to go away without any kind of treatment is what I have read. I am open minded to alternatives that are not potentially harmful and/or make the situation worse. Xiaflex can make the situation worse but it is scientifically proven to make things better in most cases. Administrated by a doctor. I know this illness can make us desperate for solutions.  This is like trying to repair your auto by draining the oil out in my opinion

 
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on November 26, 2018, 08:00:55 AM
It is obvious you have read zero of the research on fasting that has been posted.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: diehardpatriot on November 27, 2018, 01:46:01 AM
Bubba dog. Vitamin E is Stone Age treatment for Peyronies man lol. If a doctor is telling you to take vitamin E, run away ASAP. fasting and diet  is cutting edge stuff and we’re all just experimenting with it, it’s not proven at all. What the “good” docotors are prescribing is Pentox. xiaflex is cool and all but it’s imvasive and even that doesn’t work 100 percent of the time or even 80 percent.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Bubba dawg on November 27, 2018, 03:29:41 AM
I will check out Pentox. The doctor I see is the only one within 30 miles
of me  that treat peyrones. I have had good luck with xiaflex and e. Maybe it could be better with Pentox. I love eat too much to fast lol . Fasting probably make me depressed
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: diehardpatriot on November 27, 2018, 03:22:37 PM
Lol, no one said it was easy. Dieting and fasting is hard. Just remember, your doctor would rather offer you xiaflex and collect a check from auxilium pharmaceuticals than tell you to change ur diet.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on November 27, 2018, 06:13:25 PM
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/policy-marijuana-use-helps-with-blood-sugar-control-and-bmi-051613#1 "Marijuana Decreases Insulin Resistance, Improves Blood Sugar Control" and this includes in fasted states. Does this mean I don't have to quit smoking? :O

I'm still going to quit. But, that is good to know!
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on November 28, 2018, 05:46:35 AM
Update: Successfully fasted 18 hours. It was rough because of a stomach ulcer I have; eating greatly soothes the pain, which meant I would normally eat often for that reason. I also just made Snake Juice and tasted it for the first time. It isn't too bad, although I'd prefer regular water. I used Cayenne pepper with it during the fast to attempt a start at curing my ulcer, but it tasted horrible and I had to stop. I'm now going to continue on with cabbage juice to eliminate the ulcer. If that doesn't work, I'm going to man up and deal with the pain of the ulcer for days until fasting clears it up, but that will be rough due to difficulty sleeping. For those interested, Snake Juice is essentially lightly salted water, meant to keep your electrolytes up during a fast without breaking it. Here is the recipe:

Water = 2L
Potassium Chloride powder = 1tsp (2560mg)
Sodium Chloride (Himalayan pink salt) = 1/2tsp (840mg)
Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda) = 1tsp (1080mg)
Magnesium Sulphate = 1/2tsp (200mg)
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: diehardpatriot on November 28, 2018, 03:10:16 PM
JS: On the fasting reddit link, someone claimed they cured their stomach ulcer with a fast. Maybe yours will respond the same.

Bubba; I’m glad you’ve had good luck with xiaflex. I personally wouldn’t touch it, my penis doesn’t react very well to any sort of trauma...
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on December 10, 2018, 06:29:06 AM
Update: the cabbage juice was disgusting (lol), couldn't handle it, so just going to man up and fast on cayenne pepper snake juice for as long as I can (removing cayenne pepper once ulcer is gone). Plan on starting fast when the ball drops on new year's eve. Until then, going to do a 48 and a 72 hour fast to prep my body. At this point, I'm completely on board with the snake diet, and I follow everything Cole Robinson says when it comes to fasting. I have about 80 pounds of body fat to burn off so I could potentially go into the range of months with my fast (50-100 days), and I will be doing aggressive dry fasting after my refeed. Probably getting stem cells the week I start my fast as well, and again after. I'm going to try to contact Cole to see if he can coach me over the phone throughout the process, I'll keep everyone updated.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on December 19, 2018, 11:57:54 PM
I’m currently 8 hours into my first ever 48 hour fast to force ketosis/keto flu and break sugar and carb addiction in preparation for an extended fast. I’m using the updated snake juice recipe which removes everything but potassium and baking soda, which makes it less salty and much more appetizing. This alkalizes the stomach and raises the PH a few notches so I have to be careful to switch over to regular water before my refeed or I’ll get indigestion. I’ve successfully implemented the cayenne pepper into the snake juice and am happy to report that I can handle the taste no problem and it’s numbing my stomach ulcer pain, so looks like I’m in the clear to get this done.

Although the plan is to break the fast after 48 hours, there’s a possibility I will say f**k it and just go straight through Christmas and the New Year. We’ll see!
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Bubba dawg on December 20, 2018, 04:50:02 AM
I saw some ketones diet supplements in the local health food store. They were around $40 if I remember correctly. I want to see some before and after improvement pics. Has anyone got any pics of a clear cut straightening after fasting?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: NeoV on December 20, 2018, 05:55:04 AM
Mine is definitely better than a year and a half ago (when I started the diet), but no pics. I guess I should take some now. I wouldn't expect any changes until MONTHS or years of low insulin or fasting. It likely helps the root cause of the disease but, damage is damage, : ( That said, my symptoms seem much better now and got severe before when my IR was at it's worst.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on December 20, 2018, 08:04:47 AM
I want to see some before and after improvement pics. Has anyone got any pics of a clear cut straightening after fasting?

Yeah, no. I am not posting pictures of my dick online to prove something to someone when I have ZERO motive to deceive anyone about it. There is no gain on my part if people do or do not try fasting as a treatment.

You could just try it, considering all the other HUGELY well documented health benefits from fasting. Or you could not. Up to you.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Bubba dawg on December 20, 2018, 09:24:55 AM
I dont blame you. I dont want mine posted online either lol. I dont have before pics anyway.
 Mentally or physically , I would not do well fasting. I need a lot of fiber in my diet. Not fiber pills though. Other foods for mental well being.  You're talking turning your body upside down to fix your penis. I just got my body back in order after surgery a few years ago
 
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on December 20, 2018, 05:32:47 PM
So I made it 25 hours fasted and then I accidentally ate 2 of those little gummie snacks that come in the little fruit snack packs before I caught myself and literally spit it out. I’m extremely mad but it has to have been under 50 calories consumed. Can anyone with experience with any form of fasting tell me how big of a setback that was? I’m just going to continue the fast as if nothing happened, but I was expecting keto flu at exactly 30-36 hours so this throws my timing off a bit. At least it was just gelatin and a little bit of sugar; no carbs. It’s crazy how second-nature it was for me to just pop 2 of those little things in my mouth. I’m going to have to be more careful going forward. Aside from that I felt absolutely fine the entire fast and I still feel great. I slept great and didn’t have any issues with my ulcer as the cayenne pepper completely numbs the GI tract.

I want to take this moment to add a warning though: if you are eating at a caloric deficit, you can and will starve. This is possible because your body is still in a mode where it gets its nutrients from what you put in your stomach. Fasting only works if you allow your body to switch into fasted ketosis, and have enough fat on you to fuel the fast. This way, your body gets everything it needs from your fat (including nutrients). My accidental break of the fast was dangerous in that if I continue doing it, I will essentially be starving myself. So be careful! In fact, if you are going to fast, go watch all of the videos you need to from the Snake Diet channel so that you can do this safely. I also advise joining their facebook group and potentially getting a guide to help you through the process if you decide to go through with it. I probably will do that myself sooner or later. Also, before I forget, my mantra for this fasting regimen is LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! I will stop it immediately if I feel ill, refeed, then go back into the fast when I feel better.

Bubba, in my opinion fasting cleans your body up, it does not turn it upside down. There’s a science behind it and it must be done right to avert issues but if done right it is the best healing you can get in my opinion. I completely understand your skepticism and I hope I can eventually help you understand how it works as time goes on. Given that you just had a lot of medical issues, I even feel as though fasting can really help you heal up, but also given those issues, it would be inadvisable to start fasting unless you know exactly what you were doing. Do what is right for you, but I ask you to keep an open mind my friend!

Edit: Tragedy averted! I got slight indigestion so I cut out the snake juice (contains baking soda which raises stomach PH levels) and gave my stomach a few hours to spit out some acid and digest the 2 gummy bears, then I reintroduced the snake juice and my stomach is back to normal now. Hopefully that only took a few hours off my fast before I hit ketosis, we'll see! Thank god I do intense research before trying anything.

Edit 2: I forgot to mention that I've been vaping a ton of weed via oil pens and dabs throughout the entire fast. Too much to be honest; this can be done, but it is not ideal. I just don't want to have to deal with the crankiness and lack of sleep that comes with marijuana withdrawal at the same time as keto flu, so I'm going wait until I'm adjusted before I quit. Your body cycles stuff out very quickly while in a fasted state, so it shouldn't last very long. I know that a lot of people read this thread, and some smoke weed (I get a lot of PMs), so this advice is for you!
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on December 21, 2018, 09:42:14 PM
You do not need to jump to the snake juice. Plain water is OK for the first 2 days. After that - snake juice is fine.

Anything else - coffee, tea, whatever - breaks the fast. The benefits of fasting have never been studied with coffee. Also teleologically makes no sense. Autophagy should only happen in a true fast. Not with coffee.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on December 21, 2018, 10:29:02 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEuHu5zjQPk - Intermittent Fasting: Does Drinking Coffee Boost Benefits?

References from the video

1) Coffee induces autophagy in vivo. (15). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4111762/

2) Spyridopoulos I , et al. (n.d.). Caffeine enhances endothelial repair by an AMPK-dependent mechanism. - PubMed - NCBI. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18757291

3) Caffeine promotes autophagy in skeletal muscle cells by increasing the calcium-dependent activation of AMP-activated protein kinase. (n.d.). https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006291X14017227

4) Mathew TS , et al. (n.d.). Caffeine promotes autophagy in skeletal muscle cells by increasing the calcium-dependent activation of AMP-activated protein kinase. - PubMed - NCBI. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25268764
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on December 22, 2018, 01:06:59 AM
During a prolonged fast coffee would turn your stomach acidic and most likely cause issues.

Here, Dr. Rhonda Patrick recommends not drinking coffee while fasting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6KClPkotxM skip to 7:21 for coffee talk.

I know the benefits of coffee are real, but I don't see why it can't be limited to feeding windows to allow a full fast in between. Not to mention, caffeine addiction is so bad that some who follow the snake diet need to be weaned off of it or else they vomit and get bad headaches from going cold turkey. So at least for my purposes I don't feel it would be practical. While fasting the ketosis and autophagy are so deep that I feel I don’t need to drink coffee to boost anything, in fact I consider it detrimental (while fasting).

Also, an update: I'm almost three days strong and I'm over the keto flu which lasted about 20 hours. Finally feel good again! Still hungry but that should pass within the next 24-48 hours. I started with snake juice over 48 hours ago and never touched fresh water so I'm just going to continue with it.

Some videos I found interesting:

Snake Diet vs. Ketogenic Diet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP07GEwdxt0

How to Prep for a Long Fast if You're Lean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1wVKgn67-A

Dr. Patrick on Carnivore Diet & Fasting: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=thZFIPOAGNQ

In the last video I linked of Dr. Patrick she describes the great healing benefits of fasting. Seriously, anyone skeptical of fasting should watch the whole thing. If you don’t understand after watching that I don’t know what to tell you. She even mentions cancer cells being extra susceptible to autophagy. This is the real deal!

Lastly, I want to speak on the Ketogenic diet. In my opinion, it just sets things up in a way that essentially mimic the benefits of fasting, but make it much less effective and more difficult. You can actually eat some carbs while doing snake diet and still be in Ketosis most of the day due to the fasting in between super tight feeding windows. I also believe the limitations on protein are pointless since you can, again, just fast in between meals and still eat a ton of protein.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on December 22, 2018, 10:58:06 AM
Using a DeLauer YouTube video as a credible source. Lol.

That guy is all bro-science and steroids.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on December 22, 2018, 11:03:56 AM
Teleologically - I do not see how coffee would benefit. If anything, I see it interfering with the proteasome and enzymes.

Better to just stick to water in my opinion. I always feel much better on water fasting, too. I definitely do not think I could go a week of fasting with coffee. Coffee also induces hypoglycemia, which would cause reactive hunger spikes. Definitely avoid if you are serious about fasting.

People are so addicted to eating and drinking that even during a fast they try to justify why they can put stuff in their mouth. It is really quite simple people. Stop putting things in your mouth. Water if you must. Do not drink water if you are not thirsty.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on January 03, 2019, 03:57:52 PM
Hello, everyone! I wanted to wait until I was fully healed, but I've decided to post a bit earlier to update you all. On December 19th I began water fasting, and since then I have only eaten 4 meals: Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Year's Eve and New Year's Day. Besides that, I've been constantly water fasting. And I have some good news!

Starting with non-Peyronie's-related ailments: My stomach ulcer is completely gone, my skin is absolutely perfect, I've lost 20 lbs and I feel great. I used to sweat excessively underneath my armpits, to the point where I would ruin shirts, and now my armpits are bone dry unless I exert myself physically. I also have some lingering withdrawal from the Xanax I recently quit taking, and the fasting is helping me in that department. I also have cubital tunnel syndrome in both elbows, and this has improved as well, although it is not fully healed.

Moving onto the penis, I'm glad to report that my hard flaccid is more than 50% healed. I no longer feel like I'm sitting on a golf ball, in fact I don't even notice my prostate much anymore. My pelvic floor is mostly relaxed too. I don't pee as often as I used to, nor do I dribble. My hard flaccid went from always being active while standing, and usually active while laying down, to almost always soft when laying down and about 50/50 soft/hard flaccid while standing. I can't explain how relieving this is. The head of my penis will randomly inflate fully, and give me full sensation. Seeing my penis in this state for the first time in a long time was great, and I didn't realize how fat my dick was until I saw myself fully soft flaccid. I definitely gained size (that I already, technically had) in going from hard flaccid to soft flaccid; my penis is fat and plump and if flops around now lol. I've also regained sensation/sensitivity. A great benefit of my hard flaccid partly resolving is that I can now inspect my penis for Peyronie's plaque more efficiently while I'm in a soft flaccid state. I would like to note that once I saw the hard flaccid resolving I got excited and masturbated, and I've been masturbating daily since, which is not good for healing, but nonetheless my hard flaccid is resolving. I'm essentially just re-aggravating it while it's healing, and I'm fully confident it would resolve faster if I abstained.

As for Peyronie's, I had a point of inflammation on the underside at the base. If you go back to my this thread: Corpus Spongiosum progress. - Peyronies Society Forums (http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,9601.0.html) you'll see me complaining about this at the base of my penis. I also have some hourglassing there. That area is now smooth to the touch, doesn't have that pronounced "line scar" I described running laterally across the base, and overall just feels much healthier. This effect is definitely not placebo. Overall, it seems as though the tissue in my penis is slowly smoothing out as well, but I will not say that is anything but placebo until I've seen further progress, although I do suspect it is very real. The way in which this all happens is pretty cool too: you get "healing crises" which is basically old wounds flaring back up, followed by healing. For example, the day before my hard flaccid began softening up, my prostate flared up so bad (while fasting; usually super low inflammation) that I couldn't find a comfortable position to sit. This also held true for the scar at the base of my penis: it flared up then went away and I noticed it was healing up. I don't have much curvature, so nothing to report in that department.

So, I'm very happy with fasting; it is everything I thought it would be. In fact, my inflammation levels are at nearly zero. And I've gone to the gym and worked out while fully fasted. One of the best parts is that I have the flexibility if I choose to eat whatever I want when I refeed, because I eat in such small windows and go back into ketosis so fast, meaning I don’t have to limit carbs or protein. Eventually I will be eating OMAD and I consider eating organic to be the most important thing regarding diet at that point. I'm going to be fasting until I run out of fat. I started at 257.7, I'm down to 239.2, and I'm going to go all the way down to about 170. That's a lot of fuel for healing! In the near future I will be dry fasting to aggressively treat my Peyronie's scar tissue, my torn meniscus and my herniated discs. I've read anecdotal accounts on reddit of discs and torn meniscii being completely healed via dry fasting, which I can link. This is the ultimate form of healing. If you still doubt, read this on dry fasting: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-science-of-dry-fasting-for-longer-than-48-hours and scroll down to Kristine Fontenot's very thorough reply. Included are multiple scientific articles explaining the insane health benefits of fasting. Seriously, don't ask me questions or bitch about fasting being unhealthy (although it is definitely dangerous if you don't know what you're doing) unless you read that first. As I said before guys, this is the real deal!

Mood: https://youtu.be/OI0K3TdS_Yk?t=17

Edit: This post on hard flaccid recovery is what initially sparked my interest in water fasting last spring: https://www.pegym.com/forums/penile-anomalies-injuries/54162-hard-flaccid-recovery.html so I have him to thank.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on January 03, 2019, 07:34:59 PM
Using a DeLauer YouTube video as a credible source. Lol.

That guy is all bro-science and steroids.

That is just an absolutely ridiculous remark, considering the studies linked in the post. The credible sources are the studies, could you not figure that out?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on January 03, 2019, 09:18:15 PM
The wonders of autophagy and the proteasome.

Awesome post. I got hooked after Jason Fung, a Canadian nephrologist, started using it on his very sick patients with some incredible results.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on January 03, 2019, 09:20:19 PM
I apologize for if I offended you, S.

We should all be friends on here. Did not mean to do that. Will you forgive me?

I guess the studies are good, but something about that guy gives me a bad vibe. The guy is clearly on steroids and hGH, and just comes across as a "broscience" guy.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on January 04, 2019, 03:04:59 AM
JS, HUGE congratulations for these achievements  ;D ;D ;D!!!

Awesome post you offered us here, I was supposed to begin work 45 minutes ago, but I thoroughly read it, and also read with the same fascination the link to Quora... God, I'm definitly trying fasting once I'm done with my hormones rollercoaster!!!

Thanks a LOT for your experience and contribution; do not hesitate to post more accounts like that, it's giving great hope and enthusiasm to everyone!!!

Cheers  ;)
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on January 04, 2019, 10:08:39 PM
@ JS1991

Nice work mate, and thanks for writing it up so clearly. I'm not surprised at all that you got those results, I had a similar experience in a shorter timeframe but that might be because my daily diet is close to zero carb already and I was in a very healthy weight range.

Not too sure about dry fasting though, I can't find any evidence re it ad autophagy vs a normal water fast.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on January 13, 2019, 07:40:04 AM
Christopher, Gabriel, Skunkworks, Thank you!

Bubba, Xanax did not give me erectile dysfunction at all; I've never had erectile dysfunction, other than the hard flaccid/pelvic floor symptoms I've described (which did not prevent me from achieving and maintaining erection whatsoever. And my libido is actually so high it makes it hard for me to abstain when attempting to). All of my improvements have come from fasting.

A brief update: As I mentioned previously, I began masturbating a lot once my symptoms became better. This caused them to become worse again and almost go back to full hard flaccid, but I'm happy to report that after a week of water fasting and abstinence, my penis is flopping around again and the head of my penis is inflating. Feels great! I'm going to continue on until there are no remnants of hard flaccid. My Peyronie's pain has improved greatly. There were two specific points along the right side of my penis that felt like tiny grains of rice, maybe 1/5 to 1/10 the size of an actual grain. These spots are now less tender. I want to say it is beginning to join the surrounding tissue, but I'll hold off on that until I see some serious progress, so as to not risk placebo effect. Other than that, overall, my penis has yet to "remodel" itself as I want it to, although I do expect this to take a lot of time/work, and I specifically predict dry fasting will be most effective in that regard. I will be dry fasting by the end of January, with the goal of doing it a few days a week throughout the month of February.

Also, random, but I actually feel better while fasting than I do when fed. I believe this is because of the insulin spike that I get from eating carbs and sugar (I really need to eat clean), but it is a very nice feeling I get while I am fasted; very tranquil. It actually gives me mental clarity. That being said, I'm sure if I refed with all organic food, low carb/sugar, etc., I'd feel much better. For example, I refed the past two days, and I'm actually looking forward to being back in the fasted state (but my refeed consisted of enchiladas, pizza and White Castle, so take that for what it's worth LOL).

Overall, I'm very happy with the results so far.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on January 13, 2019, 12:19:28 PM
Excellent!
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Tony52 on January 13, 2019, 04:42:57 PM
What does "hard flaccid"mean exactly?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on January 13, 2019, 04:56:15 PM
While flaccid, the penis is turtled up like it would be if you jumped in a bathtub full of ice water. It is actually so contracted that it becomes this "hard" little nub that just points straight out, instead of hanging loose. It doesn't flop around and the head does not inflate. I believe this is caused by pelvic floor dysfunction/prostate issues. Luckily, it's clearing up for me. Fasting is the only thing besides abstinence that has helped my symptoms, but while abstinence provided minor relief, fasting (while abstaining) provides major relief.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Bubba dawg on January 13, 2019, 07:45:21 PM
Bad disk in your lower back can cause the hard flaccid too. Can cause pelvic inflammation . Losing weight can take pressure off your back disk
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Tony52 on January 14, 2019, 05:53:47 PM
Thanks so much for the information, JS.  Appreciated!  So is a pelvic floor problem another name for hard flaccid, or are the two conditions just related? i also never understood what pelvic floor problems meant either.  Thanks again!
Tony52
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on January 14, 2019, 06:12:22 PM
Bubba, I started off at 210 lbs when I got hard flaccid and Peyronie's, which is actually lower than what I'm at now, so I don't think that's the case. Not to mention, my lower back disc is still an issue. But I agree, that is definitely the other outstanding variable that can affect some of my symptoms: weight loss.

Tony, no problem. I believe hard flaccid is caused by pelvic floor muscles (imagine the muscle you activate if attempting to stop urinating mid-stream, or alternatively to push it out faster (kegel/reverse kegel, respectively); they are located between your butt and penis) that are chronically tight and develop trigger points, clamping down on nerves as well as the root of the penis, as well as causing and inflamed prostate, which in turn clamps down on the urethra/spongiosum, causing the penile tissue to contract or "turtle" and the head of the penis to deflate. My urologist diagnosed me with Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome / Chronic Prostatitis due to these symptoms.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Tony52 on January 15, 2019, 07:33:34 PM
Many thanks, JS.  Greatly Appreciated!
Tony52
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on January 20, 2019, 09:19:00 AM
JS, sorry I comment on your posts lately and shortly (LOTS of work these weeks), but hell I read your posts as always with huge interest, happiness and hope!!

You've also been inspirational to me: I started going full keto 4 days ago, am already transitioning to a OMAD/fasting way of life, and will make a thread about it very soon I guess (already seeing GREATLY encouraging results on overall health, not much on Peyronies Disease, but I don't want to jump to conclusions too soon!!). Anyway, for the moment I feel really great, especially during the fasting windows... Thanks a lot too for the snake juice by the way, it works wonders and I did'nt get ANY symptoms of the keto flu!!!

Cheers mate and keep us up to date!!!

Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Bubba dawg on January 20, 2019, 10:21:42 AM
Ya I have pelvic floor problems . Spasms there off and on. Also have a herniated lower back disk. Bph.  When you have all those problems it is hard to determine which one is effecting it. I know a lower back disk can cause pelvic inflamation. When I miss adjustment time the pelvic area starts acting up. I have no trouble urinating yet or Erectile Dysfunction. 
Recent turtling started after I fell and jammed my back up. Exact same symptoms you do. My tailbone feels inflamed when I lay down. Not scientific....
I am now doing pelvic floor exercises daily. P F can cause you a lot of problems. A lot of nerves down there that relay messages to the brain
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on January 20, 2019, 06:20:06 PM
Osteopathic physicians can use OMT to fix pelvic dysfunction.

This includes chronic inflammation through manual techniques.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Bubba dawg on January 21, 2019, 06:04:11 AM
There are some osteopathic physicians in my area. Thanks for the info Christopher! Never heard of that type doctor before
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on January 26, 2019, 01:33:56 PM
I am actually trained in some of these techniques.

Find someone preferably who specialized in something called "neuromusculoskeletal medicine." This is an osteopathic physician who has ADDITIONAL training in osteopathic manipulative medicine.

Ask for therapies such as:
-Pelvic floor release
-Sacral somatic dysfunction
-Clearing out any pelvic rotations or sheers
-Releasing any piriformis spasms

I can do these myself, but these are hard to train over the internet and teach. You really need at least 2 years of training to do them well. Avoid chiropractors if possible. They don't do this at all.

I can honestly say - with 100% confidence - that clearing out my sacral somatic dysfunction improved my Peyronies Disease pain greatly. I had chronic scar pain, and balancing the sacrum got rid of a lot of scar pain within 48 to 72 hours. But to be honest - for pain I prefer dry fasting and ice baths. (Never do ice baths while fasting. You will faint. Only do ice bath when you are eating.)
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on January 26, 2019, 01:47:47 PM
Yeah man - you are welcome.

PM me if you need help with anything, though publically posting is better so everyone can benefit.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on February 06, 2019, 07:41:04 PM
Hello everyone! At this point I've clocked in over 40 days of fasting, although it's kind of freestyle and I randomly refeed and eat like crazy to fatten myself back up. I've done multiple 10+ day fasts, and I feel at this point I've mastered (salt)water fasting. In case anyone forgot I started at 257.7 lbs; I'm down to 218.

I've seen great improvement in my Peyronie's. My dent has filled in more in the past month and a half than it did in the months after I received stem cells, and the main points of inflammation on the right side of my penis, which were previously tender to the touch, are now no longer tender and at times hard to locate. My inflammation is also so low that I'm strongly debating adding traction and VED back in, even while fasting. Those two physical therapies after a long, aggressive fasting regimen are going to be my protocol. Also, when I had received stem cells, the tissue in my penis began smoothing out, and again, fasting is pretty much doing the same thing only quicker. It is admittedly slow-going but I feel like dry fasting will be where the dramatic changes come. I'd still like to water fast some more, and do more research on the subject before I dry fast, but that is coming next. No later than March, I'd say.

Overall, without a doubt, fasting is the best thing I have done for my Peyronie's disease. Noticeable changes in scar tissue and pain are pretty much as good as you can hope for with a treatment. At this point, I feel fully comfortable recommending it as a treatment. Especially if you have hard flaccid; mine is now about 30% of what it was at the start. I am very happy about this. I'm going to go as far as I can go with this, so hopefully at the end we all have a clearer picture as to the full potential of fasting, but as of now I feel like I've honestly found the "cure" that I've been searching for and I am VERY optimistic about the future. I plan on being Peyronie's-free by the summer via fasting. In my estimate, it is going to take an aggressive dry-fasting regimen with big, careful refeeds to keep my weight on me. We'll see!
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Whyisthishappening on February 07, 2019, 07:15:45 AM
well done man i wish you one day soon to get rid of it forever
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on February 07, 2019, 07:11:03 PM
Thank you very much! I'm very happy to be able to share this news with you guys. I'll have pictures of before and after dent as well as before and after hard flaccid up soon. It was honestly my hope that I would be able to assist others in healing themselves via my experience, but everyone is so against fasting that it seems I'm going this solo (at least, for now). I'll continue sharing my knowledge, and if any of you want further assistance feel free to ask; I'll answer any questions you have. I truly believe I've found a winning protocol.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on February 07, 2019, 07:32:52 PM
Here you go, boys: https://m.imgur.com/a/OVkQg2Y before and afters of my dent filling in. I don't feel like masturbating till erection and posing my penis at the moment (I'm trying to NoFap anyway) so I don’t have an erect post-fasting shot, but what I supplied should make due for now. I can include pics of my soft flaccid if necessary as well.

No more bitching about fasting not being legit, OK? Thanks :)

Also, just want to give a big thanks to Skunkworks, NeoV, diehardpatriot, Christopher1 and anyone else I might be missing for helping me by sharing personal experiences, pointing me in certain directions, and helping with overall experimentation. Thank you very much!
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on February 07, 2019, 09:45:33 PM
Good on you for taking what can be quite a difficult undertaking for many, and mastering it so quickly.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: treeza1 on February 08, 2019, 11:27:45 PM
Can anyone outline to me what "hard flaccid" refers to? I think I definitely fall under this category but want to be able understand this more clearly - and congrats man ✌🏼
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on February 08, 2019, 11:59:53 PM
https://www.urologynews.uk.com/features/synopsis/post/hard-flaccid-syndrome
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on February 10, 2019, 10:49:06 PM
Good article! I hadn't realised hard flaccid had any real recognition from the medical community.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Whyisthishappening on February 11, 2019, 12:00:42 PM
inspired by accounts in this and similar threads and other sites i am now on 22 hour of dry fasting , i will report  soon.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Bubba dawg on February 11, 2019, 01:29:10 PM
With me, hard flaccid comes and goes. Sometimes it hangs like normal /soft and sometimes it doesnt . I cant pinpoint any reason for the change.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on February 12, 2019, 02:21:57 AM
Whyisthishappening, good luck and be careful! Binge watch dry fasting videos from the Snake Diet channel so you can arm yourself with the knowledge you need. Most importantly, you MUST break your fast very carefully. Water fasting on "snake juice" (salt water) you don't have to worry about it as much, but dry fasting the risk is there. Break your fast with baking soda/water, then coconut water, eventually fruit, then on to solid food, at a rate that I forgot and have to look up. If you plan on refeeding then doing another fast, and repeating until your symptoms are gone (what I will be doing) then refeed roughly as many days as you dry fast. Do not enter a dry fast unless you are feeling 100%!!!! You can and will get refeeding syndrome if you [email protected]< it up. Fasting works great if you know what you're doing, but it can get dangerous (and deadly) real quick if you don't. Like I said, watch those snake diet dry fasting videos! And by the way, the autophagy effects peak around 72 hours, so you want to get there, then ride that peaked autophagy out as long as possible. If you're a few days into a dry fast, STAY HOME. Do not drive. People have passed out while driving while on a dry fast. You will get very dizzy if you stand up too fast. You might pass kidney stones too, so watch out, although you can break it up by drinking either lemon juice or apple cider vinegar before it comes out of you, then going right back into the fast; I have to look it up again to be sure though. Even with this advice, if you don't know how to properly balance the pH in your stomach/kidneys/body, you can [email protected]< it up with the liquids mentioned above. Also, there is a hard dry fast and a soft dry fast. Hard dry fast is no contact with water; you will literally absorb it through your skin. This means no showers, no brushing teeth, no washing hands, nothing. Don't even go in the rain (although I hear it feels great while dry fasting). Autophagy is more effective this way, and the fasting itself keeps your body and mouth clean so it's not as bad as it sounds. There's a ton of info I can give you right now, but I'm just repeating mostly what I read in the snake diet videos, so again, WATCH THEM! And last thing: if you've never fasted before, you're going to get a crazy keto flu + sugar withdrawal right around the 36 hour mark (give or take a few hours), and I personally wouldn't combine that with my first ever dry fast. But if you just man up and be careful you can probably get through it lol. Keywords: BE CAREFUL!

Skunkworks, thank you for the kind words as always. That is a recent article, so it looks like the medical community is finally catching on to the syndrome.

Bubba (and anyone else with hard flaccid), As I've made progress with mine, it went from always hard flaccid, to on and off. Stress plays a big factor, and I can literally tell by how "hard" my flaccid is how tense I am. If I'm stressed and I take a moment to step back, clear my mind, take a deep breath and relax, it will soften up a bit. The best method that I've seen for curing hard flaccid is to fully abstain from porn, masturbation and orgasm for a LONG duration, and when I water fast at the same time it goes wayyyy quicker. If I do mess up and orgasm, it's a pretty big setback and it will reverse progress, although if you're like 2 weeks into abstaining, you can orgasm ONCE and "clear the pipes" (although you really should just continue abstaining nonstop) without much reversing of symptoms. Any subsequent orgasms without giving it another week or two will revert you right back though. Of course, staying stress free helps. And if you can get to a pelvic floor physical therapist, that should give some improvement as well. To be honest, the hard flaccid is way more annoying than the Peyronie's which is why I'm hellbent on defeating it. I truly feel I would be over it already were I able to fully abstain. It's a shame: abstinence, at this point, is my #1 enemy. Luckily, fasting lowers sex drive, so that helps a lot.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Whyisthishappening on February 12, 2019, 10:26:56 AM
thank you ,but i just ate after less than 48 hours,will try again next week or later for 5 days,what i have to say is that it was easier than water fasting.
 what do you think about a dry fasting thread ?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on February 12, 2019, 09:28:05 PM
No problem. I highly suggest (if you've never done an extended water fast before) doing a 72 hour water fast to adjust your body to forced ketosis. Should make the dry fasting a lot easier. And I've been trying to figure out if I should use this thread or a new one for reporting my dry fasting experiences, but I might as well use the one you just created.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Whyisthishappening on February 13, 2019, 11:07:16 AM
i only had three  24 hours water fasts before and it was my first dry fasting,i will use the other thread for dry fasting so we have this for water fasting
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on February 17, 2019, 09:43:50 PM
Glad to see more people are exploring prolonged fasting.

It really is much more effective than intermittent fasting IMO.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: NeoV on February 18, 2019, 05:06:05 AM
Now at 32, I'll be coming up to two years straight keto / low carb this year. I am now able to have sex for hours, or even three or more times in a row. Furthermore, my penis does NOT bend afterwards, and my elbows and joints do not ache. I am able to lift weights too. I am just so overjoyed with this.

When I was 24, I remember not even being able to prop myself up due to wrist and elbow pain during missionary position. My penis ached so badly every day and bent, even 360 degrees.

Keto, low carb, fasting, really saved my life.

I do short fasts as well, and my nerves always feel much better when I do it. That said, I will be low carb / keto with IF for the rest of my life.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on February 22, 2019, 11:01:34 PM
Congrats, Neo!!
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Paolo on February 23, 2019, 02:48:25 AM
Congrats NeoV, weights are great, much better than cardio IMO  :)

If you wouldn't mind would you PM me with your 'typical' daily diet  ;D
Paul.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: james1947 on February 23, 2019, 02:14:52 PM
I talk to my GP regarding water fasting.
His answer as a big NO. He said that the stomach will grind his walls if no food in and will cause ulcer.

James
Title: YOUR DAILY DIET
Post by: Tony52 on February 23, 2019, 05:56:04 PM
NeoV,

Would you be able to send pm me your typical daily diet?  It would be greatly appreciated!

Tony52
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Tony52 on February 23, 2019, 05:59:39 PM
Thanks for sharing the pictures, JS.  Congratulations!!

Tony52
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on February 28, 2019, 10:03:15 PM
Everyone should try the Snake Diet fasting routine, honestly.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on March 12, 2019, 02:49:25 AM
James, your doctor doesn't know what he's talking about regarding fasting. I started my fasting with a stomach ulcer and it healed completely; quite the opposite of your uninformed doctor. Not that he is uninformed in general, just regarding fasting!

Neo, that is amazing!

Christopher, Agreed, and thank you so much for putting me onto the Snake Diet!!

Tony, thanks!!


I'm wrapping up my final water fast and at this point am going to shift over to the dry fasting thread. Here is a final photo of my erect penis, which is now completely dent-free: https://m.imgur.com/a/Nh11AEs (you can go back to my older post in this thread to compare it to pre-fast and mid-fast).

Also, an amazing documentary I found on fasting, with doctors, studies, etc. contained within (water fasting): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1b08X-GvRs

Please, watch that documentary.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on March 12, 2019, 08:22:05 AM
Why are you switching over to the dry fasting thread?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on March 12, 2019, 05:59:57 PM
Because at this point I feel comfortable enough with water fasting that I am going to stop doing it, and switch over to dry fasting weekly.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on March 20, 2019, 01:03:34 PM
You're welcome, brother. Keep at it.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Snaffu on March 30, 2019, 07:13:16 AM
Because of this thread i started to do a waterfast with Snake juice as well. I am at the beginning stages of possible peyronies according to my urologist. I have a small dent on the left side and two small bb pallet like plagues on the upper side of my shaft.

I did a waterfast of only 72 jours and boy the results! My inflammation went down considerably. And one of my BB pallets is gone! The other one has reduced in size and feels softer if that makes Sense. No change in my dent yet. Right now im intermittant fasting on a keto diet. Recently I picked up pentox and it seems to help with my hard flaccid. I want to do another waterfasting soon and go for a longer periode. The only challenge i have is the pentox. Apparently you need tot take it after a meal to protect your stomach, but if i go fasting that is obviously not possible. Any tips regarding this to make sure i can keep using pentox while fasting? Or is this simply not possible? Anyway thank you guys for this thread! It had given me new hope to combat this.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on March 31, 2019, 12:05:29 PM
Try taking it on an empty stomach and see if it causes stomach upset.  If it does you could try taking it w an anti-acid med OTC to see if that works.  Keto and IF are great anti-inflammatories but I’d consider adding low dose daily PDE5i and traction or VED as well.  Be sure to read the survival guide: Peyronies Survival Guide - Information for New Members - Peyronies Society Forums (http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,3180.msg44057.html#msg44057)
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Snaffu on April 03, 2019, 05:08:10 PM
Thank you for your reply. Today i tried the pentox on an empty stomach. No problems whatsoever. Gonna add, 2,5 mg of Cialis to my regimen. Hopefully it will help some as well. This sunday i Will begin my waterfast. I will keep you guys updated. Good luck to all of you.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on April 05, 2019, 02:40:06 PM
Hey guys,

Slowly creeping back up to the forum and reading all the posts I missed after 2-3 months of very intensive work and medical experimentations.

God I love this place. We're amazing.

JS, let me be clear once and for all, I'm the biggest fan of what you're doing, and how you're telling it. I've now been nearly 3 months on a strict keto diet, and I'm coming out right now of a 3 days snake juice fast. No solid results yet on Peyronies Disease (inflammation + difformity), but I'm preparing a huge post with an incredible bunk of supernatural overall health benefits. Please keep us updated as often as you can of your dry fasting progress; that's the next step for me too, after three or four more 3-10 days water fasts.

Cheers guys,

G
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on April 05, 2019, 03:26:42 PM
Snaffu, will you also add traction or VED?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on April 15, 2019, 06:11:13 AM
Just to let you know guys: day 1 of a 7-10 snake juice water fast today. I have already been on keto for 3 months now, so I don't expect any transition phase; I just fear the 3-5 days "healing crisis" mark (which I just had time to hit when I did my 72 hours fast, and gosh that was'nt pleasant)...

The goal is 1) Decreasing/eliminating that F^@$!ng severe inflammation/pain I've been suffering from for 18+ months; 2) Stopping the progression of fibrosis (hourglass difformity, slowly but steadily getting worse); 3) Why not, getting rid of other old syndroms (low back pain, sensitive bowel, CPPS although already ~70% cured by keto).

I'll let you know what happens :-)!

Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Whyisthishappening on April 15, 2019, 12:30:23 PM
i just finished a 70 hour water fast,had intentions for dry fast today but after i drunk some water i ate an orange so next time for me .saw a small improvement in full erection this morning.i also want to add something i tried to gain weight a month ago but  fasting was harder this time(last time i was clean eating and just fasted way easier) so next time i will keep my normal diet and fast.
   gabriel hope for you the best
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on April 15, 2019, 09:33:44 PM
I'm curious about the 3-5 days "healing crisis". When I last did a fast I stopped at 3 days because things went backwards, first day hungry but ok, second day hard flaccid completely gone everything felt pain free and loose, third day the same up until the evening when everything tightened up again, skin went blotchy, concentration went to crap.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Whyisthishappening on April 16, 2019, 04:21:20 AM
hunger after day 2 wasn't an issue i will refeed and try again the soonest ,  a member joao i think said he completely healed after seven days of water only last year
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: krazylord on April 17, 2019, 08:30:07 PM
Glad to see people trying their best. I did a dry-fast of 3 days followed by a water-fast of 18 days. So in total, 21-days. I did it in a clinic, in Santa Rosa, California. It did help with inflammation, especially with hard-flaccid. The penis would be hanging naturally all the time during and slowly after. No change though in peyronies whatsoever. No change in anything. Maybe it will work for others though. I will not do it again :) But I am sure any kind of diet that excludes meat is good for inflammation.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on April 17, 2019, 10:39:46 PM
That's funny because I am on quite literally an all meat diet and my markers of inflammation could not be better. Then when I fasted, I got actual results with regards to Peyronie's.

Then we have this, an actual interventional controlled trial for nutrition, rare but wonderful - https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/137/2/363/4664544

Quote
Our results suggest that partial replacement of dietary carbohydrate with protein from lean red meat does not elevate oxidative stress or inflammation.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on April 17, 2019, 10:46:22 PM
Jaoa completely healed of what after fasting?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: krazylord on April 18, 2019, 04:57:06 AM
That's funny because I am on quite literally an all meat diet and my markers of inflammation could not be better. Then when I fasted, I got actual results with regards to Peyronie's.

Then we have this, an actual interventional controlled trial for nutrition, rare but wonderful - https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/137/2/363/4664544

Yes, that is an important study. Although one needs to read it carefully: "In conclusion, the results of this study suggest that a modest increase in the intake of lean red meat in iron-replete individuals is unlikely to increase oxidative stress or inflammation. This conclusion is limited to the short term when lean red meat provided to participants partially replaces carbohydrate in the diet. Our results do not support the suggestion that higher red meat intake leads to increased risk of heart disease and type 2 diabetes via effects of iron to increase oxidative stress and inflammation."

This might suggest that replacing some carbs intake with lean red meat might actually be better for inflammation and for the short-term. Replacing is one thing, adding on top of your diet is a different thing. Doing it long-term, another thing. Plus, not too many people eat lean red meat or cook at home high-quality meat. I would be surprised to find the same results from processed meat. I would like to see this study in a long-term fashion as well.

Do you know of any newer study, since this one is from 2007?

Thanks,
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Whyisthishappening on April 18, 2019, 06:35:46 AM
tonysa
Diabetes of the Penis: Peyronie's and Diet - Peyronies Society Forums [Page 2] (http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,8707.msg97781.html?PHPSESSID=rupu33g1fadvnpigq41ue89eg3#msg97781) joao reply #50
 I found a cure.. - Peyronies Society Forums (http://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,10578.msg103519.html?PHPSESSID=rupu33g1fadvnpigq41ue89eg3#msg103519) memyselfandi
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on April 18, 2019, 11:02:48 AM
Do you know of any newer study, since this one is from 2007?

Thanks,

The date of the study matters exactly zero, the human body has not changed in that time.

Do you require the same level of evidence to support your opinions as you do to disprove them?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: krazylord on April 19, 2019, 01:47:25 AM
skunkworks, your answer is stupid. I will not waste my time with you again. There is nothing in my response that disproves anything. Can anybody on this post tell me what did I say to disprove anything?

I asked you a question. Period. If you want to make this place your childish battlefield, or if your life is miserable, go to a psychologist. Give me the f... alone. And learn how to read.

And please, don't you ever mention me again. I am here to help others and be constructive. Not to tolerate your BS and your fanatism about stupid meat. And I am not the only one here who is tired of your BS.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Paolo on April 19, 2019, 06:23:45 AM
krazylord, you are usually a benevolent fellow, play the ball not the man, please  :)
Paul.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on April 19, 2019, 09:10:51 AM
Krazylord I'm just going to ignore that whole post because I could have been more detailed in my response previously. I would advise getting your manners in check pretty damn quick though.

Quote
Yes, that is an important study. Although one needs to read it carefully: "In conclusion, the results of this study suggest that a modest increase in the intake of lean red meat in iron-replete individuals is unlikely to increase oxidative stress or inflammation. This conclusion is limited to the short term when lean red meat provided to participants partially replaces carbohydrate in the diet. Our results do not support the suggestion that higher red meat intake leads to increased risk of heart disease and type 2 diabetes via effects of iron to increase oxidative stress and inflammation."

Reading it carefully is exactly what I did, I can send you the full text pdf if you would like. The quote you posted from the conclusion does not present any different information than the abstract.

Quote
I would like to see this study in a long-term fashion as well.

You are asking for a longer term study of what is already a long interventional study on nutrition, that is not a reasonable request. The same is true for wanting a more recent study, I hear that request a lot, but in this case it's ludicrous. 2007 is not an old study.

I said "Do you require the same level of evidence to support your opinions as you do to disprove them?" because this is something I see all the time. When studies are presented that do not support a person's supposition, the response from them is all too often 'i want a bigger/longer/newer' study. And my question is, would you ask for the same if the study supported your supposition?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Whyisthishappening on April 19, 2019, 11:11:31 AM
  guys  we are not enemies here , were here because of a common enemy Peyronies Disease
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on April 20, 2019, 06:48:03 PM
Thanks for the link whyisthishappening, but I don’t see him explaining what he means his peyronies was cured.  Fir example curve went from 40 to 5 degrees...but maybe I’m missing it.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on April 21, 2019, 05:05:40 AM
OH FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU*CK

GUYS GUYS GUYS

OK I'm so fu*king excited, I'm gonna cool down and try to write this post calmly :D

SO, here we are in my fasting journey:

D1-2: Relatively easy, already in ketosis so few and limited hunger pangs, just psychological need from food and some boredom.

D3-4: Quite hard actually, not feeling that well, beginning to have low blood pressure, sometimes harsh desire for food although more psychological and social than physical.

D5: Better regarding to food, but boredom and semi-weakness (low prolonged efforts are OK, but any "high" effort even for two seconds is out of question), and begin to feel desperate and depressed because absolutely NO improvement whatsoever in my difformity or terrible pain.

D6: Same thing but worst; strange phase between 10AM - 3PM, where I felt the urgent and non-negociable need to go back home and lie down for a few hours, without even sleeping, but without doing absolutely anything. Felt actually just like when you have a flu or a profound disease that tells you: "man, just stay in that bed, do nothing and shut the fu*k up, I'm working". Wasn't that bad nor scary, but I felt strange feelings in my body, with a little and really short flare up of Peyronie's flaccid pain (nothing as big as the "healing crisis" I've heard about). Still feeling somehow desperate though, and a little moody afterwards.

Tonight (D6 to D7): waking up having a nocturnal erection, as from 19+ months now, and feeling... almost NOTHING. NO.FUC*ING.THING. Guys, you cannot imagine how it feels, after TWO [email protected]<ing YEARS feeling like I have a knife stuck in my whole penis anytime my junk goes up. After 4000+ euros spent in urologists, injections, shockwaves, more than twenty oral meds, daily humiliating pumping and tracting, a [email protected]<ing Peyronies-second-job-and-rent... Seven days of fasting and 80% of the inflammation is gone overnight. This is UNBELIEVABLE. I've semi-masturbated two times this morning as I couldn't believe it: same feeling, ALMOST NO PAIN. Sweet [email protected]<ing Jesus...

Now, I'm extatic but my concern is: will it last? What will happen tomorrow and the next days when I have an erection? What will happen when I refeed and go back to eating (keto) in 3 days? And, less important to my eyes as this pain was bloody life-ravaging: what about the re-shaping of the severe hourglass difformity?

I'll let you know how it evolves guys. Feel free to ask questions in the meantime. Gosh I'm gonna go for a walk under the sun enjoying the moment and hoping it will last.

Cheers and love

G
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on April 21, 2019, 09:36:12 AM
Super happy for you Gabriel!

Now re your concern, my significant issue is/was hourglassing which was almost a decade old now. It improved after fasting (when I had nutrition outside of fasting sorted). If my decade old almost certainly calcified situation can improve, I'd be very optimistic that yours can.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on April 21, 2019, 05:09:07 PM
Great news Gabriel!  That’s significant and I suspect keto will keep the pain away not that you’ve attacked the inflammation.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on April 22, 2019, 12:28:03 PM
Skunk, Tony, thank you :-)!

Well, the inflammation has rose again, but NOT to the same level as before; I guess there is still a long/medium way to go, but at least I'm now 100% ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that we are on the right path. Since yesterday, I keep having more and more strange not-so-unpleasant pain while flaccid throughout the day, especially when I lie down and rest still; these feelings are exactly the same as I experienced in a less intense way the day before my inflammation subsided.

I'm really hoping for another significant decrease before I end my fast on wednesday; but anyway, I now know that I will do one ore more other prolonged fast, as soon as possible, to finish off my inflammation/pain. From my latest researches, also according to JS (thanks again man, great example!) and contrary to my spontaneous opinion, dry fasting seem to be the most efficient way to go. See here a quite good synthesis about it : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUsRld1K8Eo (and yes guys, I'm sorry to say it, I hated him too at the beginning, but we have to confess it: YES, Thomas de Lauer is good. Beyond its appearance, style and everything irritating, the guy present things that are backed by hard science, in an always serious and great pedagogical manner!)
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Snaffu on April 22, 2019, 01:29:26 PM
Jesus Gabriel this made my day!! So good to hear that you have found something to battle your pain. That's Just awesome! I haven't looked at the forum for a while now because of some thesis stress but damn, the first time to be back is a good one. 😁 Good luck guys, we dan do this 💪🏻

PS. For the person who asked if i use VED/traction i would first like to apologise for the late response. As mentioned above it has been a while on this forum. To answer your question: no not yet, i am looking into VED at the moment.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on April 24, 2019, 08:10:58 PM
Prolonged fasting is great.

Prolonged, dry fasting is 3 times more effective. People should try it before judging it.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on April 24, 2019, 09:49:32 PM
How can dry fasting be healthy when it can only result in dehydration w many bad and ultimately dangerous effects?

I know we are desperately seeking cures, but please be safe.  Drink while fasting, or better yet consider keto diet w IF.

https://www.popsci.com/dehydration-death-thirst-water
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: ConcernedandWorried on April 26, 2019, 02:32:39 PM
Is it too late to fast at 1 year, 2 months post-injury? I got my initial injury on February 28th, 2018. The two initial injuries appear to no longer hurt, and I'm afraid they're "sealed". Does this make them less likely to change with fasting? My other dents are newer, and I think would respond.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on April 26, 2019, 07:11:26 PM
Keto w IF is a great anti inflammatory treatment.  It should be helpful at any stage if paired w other treatment such as xiaflex, pentox, traction/VED, and low dose nightly PDE5i.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on April 29, 2019, 04:06:00 AM
Hello guys!

Snaffu: happy to make you happy and thanks a lot for your incentive man, that's what keep us going, and it's very precious to me :-)!!

Concerned, yes I do believe that you could have results, even 1+ year after your injury: I had some while I'm 19+ months in, and folks here like Skunkworks (and Neo?) had results from fasting even several years after the onset... So go for it, but please do it properly (lots of preliminary research, snake juice, incremental endeavours, etc.)!

All: unfortunetaly, years of IF and 3 months of keto did not improve my Peyronies Disease at all, nor regarding the pain or the difformity. Only one out of 5 mad expansive PRP injections did, until I make this 10 days water fast. I do contend though that a keto/IF lifestyle is from far the best way to live and eat that I ever tried!

About this fast, I forgot something I just realized yesterday night: I haven't had ANY muscular zaps and spasms while falling asleep since my fast!! I had been having them for like 2 years with peaks and downs but constantly; they subsided a little when going keto, but now they seem to be totally (?) gone!!

Problem is: pain in erection has come back... Not all of it, but a good part of it. And the stupid thing is: it came back just the same way it did last summer that when I had a huge and durable surge in pain after a party: for the first time in a while, I went out, smoke a lot of pot (no alcohol though), then binge ate like a motherfuc*er (only macadamia/brazil nuts, but like 400+g.....), and woke up in the middle of the night with the whole body in a crazy inflammatory state and particularly the dick with a very painful erection... Maybe it will subside in the next few days, but if it doesn't, I'm definitly the silliest prick ever (ruining a 10-days fast with a one-night party, well done^^).

PS: Christopher, I'm about to start (this week) a topic about dry fasting; your advice is SO wanted man :)!!



Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Snaffu on April 29, 2019, 01:51:59 PM
Its totally ubderstandable to celebrate once in a while Gabriel. It sucks that your pain came back though. But as you said there is some improvement and that's awesome! Its a marathon not s sprint. Just het some positivity out of it and keep on progressing.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on May 01, 2019, 08:15:24 PM
Looking forward to your topic!
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: ConcernedandWorried on May 05, 2019, 12:56:57 PM
Okay, I have a ridiculous concern here:

I recently measured myself and discovered that in the period between 21 and 27 (where I am now), I've gone from dead-average girth to decently-above-average, and have also gained almost a full inch in length. Because my peyronies is not severe (although still pretty troublesome and worrying, particularly in terms of how it affects erectile quality), I'm feeling hesitation to engage in water fasting, out of fear that I may be one of those rare late growers. The only reason why I suspect this, is that I used to wear condoms with my ex-girlfriend, up until I was 26, and never had any problems with normal condoms. Between 26 and 27 normal condoms started to be uncomfortable to wear, and became particularly difficult to roll all the way to the bottom (flaring, conical shape of penis). If I begin to water fast, I may lose what might be active growth. Am I an idiot? I'm really nervous about this. Obviously if my peyronies continues to progress, as it has been, my erectile quality and regularity will degenerate to the degree where size is irrelevant. However, on the other hand, because of normal insecurities about my body, I'm desperate to be or become as big as I can. What would you guys do? I'm a year and two months in, now. Some of my scars and dents are much younger than that, and I think that if JS1991's results were to occur for me, I'd be borderline cured.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JohnnyDoe on May 06, 2019, 07:26:51 PM
@ConcernedandWorried - I have no answer but would find it hard to believe that a few days without food would affect your girth.

Hey guys does anybody have a recorded of people who mentioned they improved / cured peyronies by fasting?
I would like to try it, but would be good to know how many successful cases we have?
From what I have read:

- JS1991 - multiple 10 day water fasts - fixed a dent
- Gabriel - 10 day water fast - had pain reduction which came back after few days (maybe due to other factors)
- krazylord - 20 day fast - pain reductions but no real peyronies improvements
- Chrispother1 - 4 day water fast - noticed plaque soften
- Snaffu - 3 day water fast - noticed pain reduction and plaque improvements, no change in hourglassing

Please add to this and correct me if I am wrong.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on May 08, 2019, 10:09:18 PM
Still no evidence...even anecdotal.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Snaffu on May 09, 2019, 03:40:53 AM
I did a 96 hour waterfast last week. i didn't post anything cause i was afraid that my improvements would only be temporary. But luckily after almost a week ( I stopped the fat last friday) i still have the same improvements.

I wanted to fast longer but i am 1.78 m (5ft 10) and weighed before fast 67 kg (148 pounds) so I Just dont have the fat to keep myself pushing longer. At the end of my waterfast i weighed 63 kg (139 pounds).

My results are the following:
-My aroused erections look a lot better. Sometimes it even looks like it used to! I can still feel the dents on both sides though during aroused erections. And my morning erections (so without any arousal) look the same as before. Good improvement nonetheless.
- Hard flaccid is for 95% gone now which i am quite happy with. I only still have it after sex, but Just for around an hour, then it subsides.
- my erections fill up a lot better. The Hourglass is less pronounced when blood fills my penis up.

No change in my plaque and little to know pain reduction. But the reason for no pain reduction could be because i had sex a couple of times during the last weekend.

For some reason my flaccid shape looks a lot worse. The Hourglass looks a lot more pronounced now, especially when i have to go to the toilet (Both number one and two). Afterwards the shape gets a little better, but still worse than before. Any ideaal why my flaccid shape got worse, but my erect shape better?

Anyway in quite happy with the results, but as a said before a little worried it wont last. I am therefore still not celebrating. Just keeping my cool so I wont get too devasted when things go South again.

Anyway that's my post up so far. Hope you guys can get some use out of it.

Snaffu

PS. If you are doubting waterfasting, why not try it for 24 hours for the first time? It dont think it would do much for your peyronies, but it will give you an idea. The first 24 hours always make me feel quite good for some reason haha. Anyway goodluck everyone.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on May 09, 2019, 06:58:55 AM
Still no evidence...even anecdotal.

The post directly before yours contains reports of anecdotal evidence...
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on May 09, 2019, 04:41:07 PM
Well, very little improvements, none of which appear to have reduced a curve for example.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on May 10, 2019, 01:36:34 AM
I personally don't consider dents filling in as very little improvement, simply because they bothered me so much.

Thing is there is a wealth of evidence showing the health benefits of periodic water fasting outside of Peyronie's. It'd be worth doing even if you did not have a bent or dented dick, even more so if you do. Particularly if you've taken the time to read the science supporting the theory behind why it might help.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JohnnyDoe on May 10, 2019, 05:51:16 PM
I just wanted to list what everybody has said to make it easier to make a judgement if it is worth a try.
I agree with both skunkworks and TonySa, there might be some improvements, but they also seem fairly inconsistent so far.
That is the reason why I am hesitating myself + I will be likely be out of it for a few days and lose weight.
But I will probably give it a try soon. I am thinking of 24 hours dry fasting, followed by 48 hours water fasting on 'snake juice'.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: iamnotiam on May 12, 2019, 05:41:49 PM
First post ever for me on this site.   sorry it's a little long.

@JohnnyDoe, you can add me to your list of people who witnessed distinct benefits from water fasting.

Actually, the only reason i came back on this site (haven't been here in months... so much info, i couldnt make heads or tails of it all) was because :
For reasons completely unconnected to peyronies, I just did a 5 day master cleanser fast followed by a 4 day water fast.  3 days into the water fast I was peeing and -- lo and behold -- i noticed a significant reduction in the plaques that were previously in the middle of my penis.  i couldnt believe it, i could barely find them in the flacid state.  After fishing around a bit, i finally found some, but they were notably reduced from just a week before. 

I immediately googled "fasting peyronies" and fell upon this discussion thread. 

I finished the fast yesterday, got home today i used a VED to see if there was any correction in curvature.  I didnt notice much of a difference from before to be honest, I still have kind of hourglass-ish kind of S curve.  Then again, i wasn't super hard either (my peyronies isnt too bad (neither the pain nor the curvature) but i do have Erectile Dysfunction which is very annoying.).  Anyway, it was still very surpising in the flacid state and had i known it 2 years ago when my Peyronies began i would have fasted immediately upon discovery. 

So it seems this was autophagy at work. 

Today I stumbled across Neo's great vids (i'm guessing the same NeoV as in the threads here), notably this one:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K0oafzSApw    If you cross this information, provided it's accurate (and it makes total sense to me from my experiences in diet and fasting) with the fact that a ketogenic diet without fasting does not necessarily induce autophagy (in fact, it rarely does, see this vid, for example... funny dude https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPvoko9PC8E  ) then i would say that:

keto diet:  great for prevention, damage control and slight softening of plaques
water fasting:   induces autophagy, which seems to be able to reduce plaque size more considerably.

@Neo would you agree with me on this?    Also, do you have Erectile Dysfunction and if so does this diet help with it?

(sorry if i'm repeating things people have already said... i read through a lot of threads rather quickly)

also, i've noticed a lot of people saying a lot of things about fasting that i dont agree with.  (for example, taking medications while fasting...).  A water fast, imo, should be only water.    I learned quite a lot from Stephen buhner's excellent book   https://www.amazon.com/Transformational-Power-Fasting-Spiritual-Rejuvenation-ebook/dp/B00770DLJS     
I have water fasted once before, for 7 days back in 2015.  Amazing spiritually, emotionally, physically (that was pre-Peyronies Disease).


ps.  I got Peyronies Disease in late 2017, origin of immersion probably rough sex, i was 36.  I have treated it, it seems more or less successfully, with pentox and VED, but the Erectile Dysfunction has never gone away.  i also have Chronic Prostatitis (@gabriel i'd like to exchange on that... could there be a link?) that i've been struggling with off and on since 2006.   

pps.   looking back, i see certain symptoms that could have been warning signs for Peyronies Disease if one considers it's a metabolic disorder:

- hyperglycemia when i eat wheat (avoiding wheat almost completely makes it disappear so i thought "hyperglycemia" was a misdiagnosis (from about 20yrs old and on)
- inability to ejaculate in morning.  i don't know what this has to do with anything, no doctor has been able to clarify.  Sex in morning is possible, i get hard... it's just often i cant ejaculate.  so very frustrating.   I was always certain it was metabolic but couldnt figure out what was going on, and left it at that  (from about age 30 and on)
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Bent Ding Dong on May 13, 2019, 05:54:35 AM
Interesting @iamnotiam. I would love to try a water fast but I am way too skinny to try it. The funny guy that you mention in the Youtube vid (Siim Land) has other videos that I've watched and he mentions that sauna use can stimulate autophagy and particularly infrared sauna. I wonder if using an infrared sauna a few times a week can produce the same results with peyronie's without having to fast?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: NeoV on May 14, 2019, 05:41:44 AM
Fantastic news iamnotiam! Welcome to the forums.

I do not think that autophagy is the reason why Peyronie's improves on keto or low carb, or even fasting (if we are saying that autophagy is the body eating scar tissue). The penis itself get's healthier, inflammation lowers, and the environment that produces scarring is basically removed once the body is off carbohydrates and fasting or running on simply vegetables, meat, and fat. Fasting may be even better or powerful when combined.

One reason why the penis feels so much better fasting or on keto could be because of the drammatic blood pressure reduction, among many other reasons. Your blood will be less "sticky" and the hematoma or damaged parts of the penis will allow more blood to flow through. Fasting / keto, and traction or VED with periods of abstinence can really change the entire way your penis feels and heals.

With all that said, I do like fasting (I now do one meal a day) and the benefits are profound!

Autophagy appears to refer to a lot of different things, and not just one, but in general yes, I think fasting is critical to inflammatory disorders and Peyronie's.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: pey ron on May 28, 2019, 12:57:58 AM
Last two times I fasted I broke the fast after barely 1.5 days. Last two times I fast I was attempting a dry fast.

Every time I did a water fast, I didn't fail. I was able to carry it on for 4-5 days.

Dry fasts are hard :( Any tip on how to succeed?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on May 28, 2019, 09:44:29 AM
Honestly - I do not think dry fasts are that critical.

I think the most important thing is the length of the fast. Done safely, of course. Snake juice keeps it pretty safe. To get Angus Barbieri-like effects, it needs to be long. What are those effects? Skin tags fall off. Excessive skin regresses. Weird aches and pains disappear etc. Autophagy takes time.

Barbieri used snake juice and vitamins, I think. And nutritional yeast. I personally just stick to snake juice.

Dry fasts are cool, but you can't do them for too long. My max is 4 days dry.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on May 28, 2019, 11:09:07 AM
Personally I think the only relevant criteria is days without calories, re fasting.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: pey ron on May 29, 2019, 02:54:41 AM
@Christopher1: skin tags fall off?

I recently notices that two flat moles i have had since forever have faded or actually disappeared. Could it be because of the fasting? I actually loved those two moles, though :(

I wish some photodamage (can't remember the proper name for it, but it looks like freckles) I got on my shoulders would also disappear...
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: pey ron on May 29, 2019, 02:55:41 AM
BTW, from Wikipedia, Angus Barbieri died at the young age of 51. Not very encouraging.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on May 29, 2019, 07:52:49 PM
N=1...
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on May 30, 2019, 05:41:34 PM
Yes - I had 3 moles disappear. Takes a lot of time though. Also a couple of small liver spots.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on June 08, 2019, 03:32:20 AM
Hello guys,

Sorry I've been totally away from the forum for professionnal and familial reasons!

Just a little update here before a big post about all this I'm going to make in the next weeks: I'm on day 2 of a 4 days dry fast (+ 1 snake juice day before), and will update the results. So far, and contrary to my previous snake juice fast, I litterally feel like crap XD. And yet I consider to be at least a semi-experienced faster (IF everyday for years, multiple 2-3 days water fasts, one 36h dry fast, one 10 days water fast)... But right now I really feel like a bag full of dead things, and don't know if I'll even be able to go out do the few stuff I have to do today (going to the post office, etc.). Christopher, man, do you consider this physical/mental immense weakness to be normal and not alarming?? (PS: guys, that said, I've spent dozens of hours of research on dry fast, so I know what I'm doing as possible as it is and won't push too far if I really don't feel it).

@Snaffu: I was totally delighted to read your results man, big congratulations to you. Hopefully you can put on some fat and renew the experiment towards a full healing. I wish so!

@iamnotiam: It's also very cool to see that you got some improvements via fasting. This accumulation of anecdotes is important to us, so we can encourage other folks to try this and report their improvements or lack thereof. Personnally, I would totally say that there is a link, yet mysterious, with Peyronies Disease and CPPS (like I've ended up believing that there is a link with Peyronies Disease and every weird symptoms in your body, especially in the pelvic/gastric area). I too am still struggling with CPPS, although I cured a great lot of it with cutting off coffee, masturbation and carbs (keto diet/IF). I highly suspect a muscular component, which would also explain why you can't ejaculate in the morning (smooth muscle around the bladder/prostate that does not contract/retract properly, especially after sleep time). I think Dr Berg has a few videos on that on Youtube; check "Berg bladder" or "berg prostate".

Cheers men,

G

PS: Did someone had any news from JS??? I haven't heard of him since centuries, and he doesn't answer to PM; I hope he's ok!!

Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on June 08, 2019, 06:51:45 PM
You need to build your way up to it. Start with 1 day.

You are not keto adapted.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on June 09, 2019, 02:55:27 AM
Hey Christopher,

Haha yes I'm on keto since january, so I'm totally keto-adapted!

What I think explains I struggle so much compared to what it should be with regard to my experience, is that on day 1 (snake juice) and overall day 2 (dry), I did make a LOT of work, both physicial and intellectual, along very long days. It felt totally good on these days, but I think it prematurely crashed my level of electrolytes, whereas I should have gently stayed at home at least from the first dry day.

I thought last night would help a bit recover a little bodily function, but... no, I still feel like crap lol, not worse than yesterday though. I'm a little disappointed because I have not experienced the strange/cool symptoms I had from day  7 of my water fast, when I felt like tingling in my dick and saw my inflammation and pain totally plummet soon after. Maybe that will come today or tonight...

Anyway I plan on re-hydrating tomorrow morning and refeeding the day after tomorrow, which will make 3,5 days of dry fasting + 2 days of water/electrolytes fast. I would like to continue water fasting for more days, but I really can't with work and its social aspects I have to endure in the next weeks. I'll make you guys an update in a specific topic!

Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on June 09, 2019, 02:13:31 PM
I'd say listen to your body and adjust the fast to both how you feel and your lifestyle.

If your body cannot tolerate more days of fasting, then cut the fast. If a social or work function requires you to eat, just go with it. Don't make it so hard on yourself. Just play with it. I find myself switching back and forth from Snake Juice fasts to dry fasts and just doing what feels right. I like to challenge myself, but not to extremes.

At one point I was doing dry fasts with daily saunas. It felt pretty good, but for whatever reason on day 3 I could not go to sleep at night. No fatigue at all. It bothered me, so I rehydrated and ate. Slept well after. Don't do anything stupid and use common sense.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on June 09, 2019, 02:24:40 PM
Hey Christopher,

Thanks for your advice: I totally agree with you, and think the same. I do tend to want to stick to my fasting plan no matter what, because it's been exactly two years since this pain/shrinking curse began, without any treatment really working whatsoever, apart from this 10 day water fast which temporarily erased my pain, and I desperately want to stop this crap ASAP... But you're right, and I told myself the same thing: I'm going to re-hydrate tomorrow morning and not wait 1 more day.

Fun fact I will develop in my future dry fast thread: taking long and cold showers help A GREAT LOT, like it litterally brings you back from the deads for 1-2 hours... I thought this "your body becomes a sponge on dry fast" was BS, but it does seem to be that way (like when I get out, I'm dry in two swift movements of towel, instead of having to rub myself as usual!).

Anyway, I'll keep you up to date guys.

Cheers
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on June 09, 2019, 02:32:58 PM
Yeah - so there are people that advocate avoiding all water contact, including brushing your teeth and showers etc.

I cannot do that with my job. Cannot really comment on that. I did do the dry fasts with the saunas. Not sure if it really did anything. Most of the best benefits I experienced - personally - have been from the longest fasts (whether they are with Snake Juice or dry).
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JohnnyDoe on July 03, 2019, 01:50:39 PM
Did 2 fasts now with a few weeks in between. Both only 48 hours. First one I did 24 hour dry, 24 hours water only. This seemed to work okay (if I remember correctly) with some ups and downs in energy. I just stopped it because I thought it was long for the first try. The one I finished now, I used snake juice for 48 hours. Somehow I was constantly hungry, also couldn’t sleep well and had muscle spasms. My body did not like it generally. But food felt so good afterwards lol. I assume its normal, but Im not sure if snake juice was really helping compared to plain water.

Will report peyronies changes if any soon.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: NeoV on July 04, 2019, 05:21:11 AM
From my experience, the more spasms and struggles you have with fasting or keto, the more you NEED to do it. That just shows how dependent your body was on glucose.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JohnnyDoe on July 04, 2019, 06:53:59 AM
Probably true, have been eating more rice lately. Also maybe another mistake, I worked out earlier on the day I started fasting. I guess it made my body crave food even more.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on July 04, 2019, 10:54:00 AM
I actually sort of agree with NeoV on his last statement.

In the hospital we see something called diabetic ketoacidosis. Most physicians really worry about the anion gap that is created by the ketoacidosis. I don't at all. By putting diabetics on insulin drips, the anion gap closes and the ketoacidosis disappears. But inherently ketoacidosis isn't all that dangerous. The body can do quite well in an acidic environment as the kidneys adapt. Also - ketones can be therapeutic and have been correlated with fewer seizures in epileptics.

In diabetics, however, who are so incredibly insulin resistant, the burden of ketones makes the diabetic feel incredibly sick. Of course, the state of glucose toxicity and dehydration adds to this. But the real problem in DKA is the glucose toxicity, dehydration, and the decrease in total body potassium (which can kill you). Not the ketoacidosis, in my opinion.

Anyway - rant over. Point is - ketones can make you feel crappy  if you aren't used to them. Like in the case of poorly controlled diabetes.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: NeoV on July 04, 2019, 11:09:10 AM
Well, nutritional ketosis is very healthy and normal, ketoacidosis is very bad.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: ConcernedandWorried on July 09, 2019, 01:01:42 PM
Has anyone tried fasting to the degree of JS1991? It seems he's MIA, like everyone else who finds a therapy that works.

I'm at 1 year, four months now and I'm wondering if it's even worth bothering. I'd like to have some of my scars shrink like his did. I have a couple dents that are affecting my girth.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JohnnyDoe on July 09, 2019, 06:13:31 PM
@Christopher & NeoV - Thanks for the input, will think about it next time.
My stomach has been acting up after my re-feed, for the next time it probably makes sense to first eat very low-carb and increase fasting time over time and a better re-feed strategy. I think it is also possible I react badly to the stuff that goes into snake juice, not sure.

@ConcernedandWorried - I cannot answer your question, but I believe that if people would completely solve their issue, they would come back and say something about it. It is possible that it helps, but dry fasting for multiple days can be demand a lot from your organs.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: ConcernedandWorried on July 09, 2019, 09:06:35 PM
He did water fasting for 50 days on-and-off. Claimed it made one of his scars almost disappear.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on July 09, 2019, 10:57:30 PM
Has anyone tried fasting to the degree of JS1991?

Yes. Me - lol.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on July 22, 2019, 05:07:10 AM
Hey guys,

Yes Johnny, re-feeding is very, very tricky, even more than we are usually told! After a lot of experiments (I did around seven 48h snake juice fasts, five 72h, three 5 days and one 10 days + one 3,5 days dry), I found that even if you're full keto like me, you do NOT want to consume fat the first day, and even the second one.

What works best for me is bone broth/miso soup --> blended zucchini --> well-cooked veggies --> lean protein --> fatty protein --> regular keto diet. The whole process can take 1 to 3 days depending on how long your fast was. But it's the only way you won't feel like total crap after breaking it ^^!!
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on July 27, 2019, 06:25:23 AM
Any improvements in Peyronies Disease after your fasting sessions?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on August 01, 2019, 04:43:48 AM
Nope, just a total but unfortunately temporary relief in pain/inflammation after my 10 days fast...
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: NeoV on August 01, 2019, 08:00:31 AM
For the record, my symptoms are less and curvature reduced after over two weeks OMAD (one meal a day meaning a daily 23 hour fast every day). This is coming off two years straight of regular keto, which DID help massively. But I am getting more results with daily fasting.

I think fasting with keto plus the physical therapies is truly miraculous when used together.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Patientxyz1992 on August 01, 2019, 09:59:42 AM
Hey neov i sent you pm can you answer please, thank you!
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on September 06, 2019, 03:20:39 AM
Hey guys,

Just so you know: day 5 of an intended 15 days water fast: total disappearing of the pain and inflammation this morning  ;D ;D ;D... The human body is an absolutely fantastic thing. I wouldn't have believed it if it wasn't the second time I experienced that!!! I don't get overenthusiastic though, because as you know I already felt this relief (2 times in 2+ years, that's little...) and then the pain came back in a few days when I refed. I'll see if, this time, a "very long" 15 days fast (though most anecdotal evidence seem to relate to 21-30 days fast for curing hard conditions) might be enough to definitely kill the inflammation and really get me out of the acute phase.

Will keep you up to date ;-),

G
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Questionmark on September 07, 2019, 01:33:42 PM
Although I do not myself suffer from Peyronies Disease, this excellent thread has prompted me to register and write a comment. I must say that I am impressed by the generally very high level of discussion, civility, intellectual curiosity and, above all, the positive spirit and indeed pesonal heroism that can be found in this forum. All this is in evidence here, despite the pain and loss of confidence which this nasty disease confronts those who suffer from it with. Thus, I count myself extremely fortunate to have come across this forum and especially this thread, in which nobel prize winning research has been referenced, discussed and put to the test in practice.

As a sufferer of Lichen Sclerosus, I am curious to see whether fasting may have a positive impact in the longer run on the progression of the disease that I was - at long last - diagnosed with about 1.5 years ago. As Peyronies Disease (please correct me if I am wrong), LS is officially deemed incurable at this point in time, the causes are "not yet fully understood"; those affected are recommended to apply cortisone locally or undergo circumcision. In recent years, a few doctors have started working with and offering PRP treatments. Like the skeptics in this forum, I do not understand what makes it so difficult for those who market such services to go and talk to their succesful cases and present a series of convincing "before & after" photos. As a matter of fact, I have yet to see such a collection of photos, and until this happens, I tend to remain doubtful of this approach, especially since relatively frequent repetition is required, and there are question marks IMHO about nerve damage and micro scarring, as well as the odds of having to deal with an infection over the course of many years of a hypothetical PRP treatment "career".

Intuitively, I am tempted to say that even if this partiuclar aspect of my health will not benefit from fasting, I have very little doubt that my system as a whole will greatly profit from the experience that I understand was an everyday occurrence during the lives of our ancestors thousands and indeed tens of thousands of years ago. Our body is hardwired to go through periods of food shortage and indeed, as the research seems to point out, it requires such periods to function optimally. Though this may of course be a pure coincidence, when looking at photos of male LS sufferers online, it struck me that most seemed to have a nice layer of fat around their wasteline or lower digestive tract. This is also the reality in my case, even though most people would say I am very slim and tall and have nothing to worry about. As a matter of fact, there is a stubborn fat depot in my stomach and bowel area that tends to grow very fast if I do not strictly control my appetite and which concerns me beyond purely cosmetical considerations. My LS developed over many years during which my waistline reached a historic maximum also due to work-related stress. Though I never came across as fat, those who knew me must have been well aware that I could have shed well in excess of five kilos at that time.

Fat and especially belly fat is known to promote inflammatory conditions in the system as a whole, and though I understand that men above 35 years of age tend to have a harder time getting rid of it, I am now becoming much more self-critical in this regard than ever. I have noticed that my mouth and my bowels are communicating different messages: The former can never get enough, especially of pasta, bread and sugar (all of which I have cut out of my diet since about one year), the latter, meanwhile, signals that it is full most of the time. While I do not quite understand what this means, I hope that fasting can help me get a better sense of these perceptions. Speaking of fat and inflammation, a couple of days ago, I came across several website that look into a phenomenon dubbed NICO (acronym) by certain dental specialists - a condition whereby the jawbone locally degenerates into a less solid and fatty mass, which those who subscribe to this theory say acts as a(n often silent) potentially far-reaching source of inflammation in the body. I am planning to look into this later this year and see whether I, too, am affected by this.

Finally, as someone who is trying to take a radical 360 degree perspective in regard to the matter in hand, I have zoomed in on the subject of electrosmog and wondered whether there could be a (common) connection to the illnesses which we are suffering from. Like in other autoimmune diseases, oxidative stress seems to play in the etiology of LS. Electrosmog, including high-frequency electromagnetic radiation below the thermal threshold, has been shown to cause (increased levels of) oxidative cell stress, mutagenic changes and programmed cell death, among many other things, including high blood pressure and behavioural changes. Research into this field and the effects of radar dates at least as far back as the early 1960s and has been commissioned by the US military, NASA and the Soviets, inter alia. The claim frequently made by the industry that the effects of (non-thermal) high frequency electromagnetic radiation are "not understood" and that more research is needed, looks increasingly fragile in light of the considerable and growing body of data and literature that suggests otherwise.
Microwave radiation emitted by mobile phones, cell phone masts, wi-fi has literally exploded over the last 25 years or so. In places where we would have received readings as low as 0.05 volt or less per meter, it is now not uncommon to get readings ten or even a hundred times higher. In select neighbourhoods where previously only the air traffic control radar used to be the sole source of constant microwave radiation there are now dozens of sources impacting each inhabitant 24/7. In "A New Era of Chronic Disease in America and what's behind it" (2017), Prof. Richard Lear outlines how the indicence of dozens and especially 1) inflammatory, 2) auto-immune, 3) metabolic and 4) neurological diseases has ratcheted up in the US between 1990 and 2015. Electrosmog is one of the factors he considers as a possible if not likely external cause, alongside dietary variables (corn fructose syrup) and pesticides. The systemic factor within the body seems to be rather uncontroversial according to Lear and can be traced to the presence of a molecule named peroxynitride, which "operates at the heart of more than forty fast-growing chronic diseases and conditions in the US. This fast-acting anion creates more than 130 biochemical disruptions in vivo...".

To cut a long story short, for obvious reasons, I have switched off my wi-fi at home in favour of a cable connection and I am trying to keep my mobile phone in flight mode as often as possible or, when this is not feasible, place it in a reasonably safe distance.

To conclude, I hope this post will not be deleted or otherwise sanctioned because of its speculative digression into a different field of interest of mine in the last paragraph or due to the fact that I am not affected by Peyronies Disease.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on September 17, 2019, 09:30:05 AM
Hey guys,

Questionmark, that was hell of a message. At first, I thought "oh, this is way to long and probably boring, I don't have time", but, actually, this is fascinating and I think you're 100% right. I have much, much to say; little time this week, so I'll answer later, but welcome among us man!

I just wanted to do a very quick update on my 15 day water (+sodium/potassium/magnesium salts) fast:
- In general: no problem whatsoever, could have gone much longer if I hadn't so many professional and logistical obligations, fasting is definitly safe and easy with a keto background and a little research (and I was already lean when starting, around 13% BF).

- Day 1-3: surprinsingly tired, weak and depressed, whereas I usually function in a total normal manner and feel great during these firsts days (already made plenty of 3-days and 5-days fasts); I even thought to abandon the project. I can't exactly and scientifically explain this physical and psychological distress; I suspect the cheese-binging at the end of the holidays the week before, which was the only time in 6+ months I authorized myself cheese, which I absolutely love but wreaks havoc on my metabolism. Lost 2,5 kgs (!!!).

- Days 4-5: almost immediately better, literaly overnight. Woke up the morning, was expecting to be almost dying then, but felt actually fine, clear, energized, eficient and ready to go. Lost around 600g in two days.

- Days 5-6: inflammation and pain disappeared 90%-95%, overnight too. I think it was on the day 5 morning. Did exactly as it did for my previous 10-days fast (see upper in this thread). Firsts normal-feeling, painless, naturel, F^@$!ng not unbearable erection in 2+ years except from my previous long fast. Began to lose approx. 200-300g/day

- Days 6 - 15: nothing to report, feeling perfectly fine 80% of the time, with some 20% little physical and psychological downs that would not last more than 2 hours and were easily resolved by laying down and close the eyes. No hunger at all, no food fantasy. Some very funny random sharp and cramping pains in my stomach/gut (a sensitive area for me from years), day or night, that would pass very quick and let my belly feeling like brand new. Also some random evacuation of semi-liquid small stools, with the same positive feeling after; hard to explain, but funny and kinda satisfying; feeling like something necessary and salutary is happening. Penis still totally pain and inflammation-free. Skin absolutely amazing, like I've never seen before, even with 5 days fast. It was like I was 23-24 again (I'm 32); my small wrinkles around the eyes almost disappeared, my tone was like a baby's, pores very tight, etc. etc.

--> On the little down side: quite poor sleep (but always had issues, it was just a little worth and I compensated with naps), terrible boredom (you're able to work on the computer 4-6 hours a day, but don't expect to work out, do long walks, have a drink with anyone, let alone a dinner^^, or do any kind of mental or physical demanding activity); no progress in deformation, no filling of the hourglass whatsoever.

--> I'm now on day 2 of refeeding (very clean keto), making it VERY cautiously and progressively (plain liquid easy veggies, then lean liquid protein like fish soup, then solids, then finally fats), in order to try to avoid the inflammation come-back I had after my last long fast from binging on inflammatory food I didn't know to be so (nuts!! F^@$!ng nuts!!!). Inflammation still down, but I do feel it's not like the core problem has been sold: I can still feel the scar tissue pulling at the center of my penis, ready to hurt. Wait and see!!

Cheers guys,

G
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on September 23, 2019, 02:06:10 AM
What's up boys, back from a long break. I have a ton of unread messages and I need to catch up on forum posts, but I just want to say I'm glad you guys hopped on the fasting train. It completely transformed my life! Will be responding to messages and posting all night.

I will say this: dry fasting is definitely more powerful, but you have to be very careful. For the record, my longest water fast was 18 days, and my longest dry fast was 9 days "hard" dry, meaning I also did not have water contact; no shower, no brushing teeth, no washing hands. Nothing. When I was done my inflamed gums were completely cured, and my hair was the softest it had ever been. I regained sensitivity in the head of my penis which was a symptom from hard flaccid as well. Speaking of hard flaccid, that is my #1 struggle at this point. I feel like I have such good control over my Peyronie's with fasting that I am focusing on decimating hard flaccid. It is very hard because my gains I make from fasting are reversed if I begin edging or have an orgasm after I dry fast. I actually smoked weed and edged during a dry fast once and it made my hard flaccid 10x worse. It's been like a roller coastser. That being said, my inflammation is PERMANENTLY (even after refeeding on a crap american diet for weeks straight) down 80%, I have no dents left, and the formerly rugged feeling scar tissue diffused throughout my penis is now smoothed out, for the most part. I've literally replaced scar tissue with healthy tissue, it's insane. I do still have scar tissue left though, but nothing else has healed me like fasting has. I feel like I've proved all of my theories correct over the last 6 months. The least progress I've made, personally, is in my hourglassing, although I've seen some small improvement there. I feel like it will take VED to fully rid myself of that and get back to pre-peyronie's status, but I want to completely rid myself of hard flaccid before I begin VED. Which, as I said, is my biggest struggle. I feel like an expert at fasting, so if anyone has any questions feel free to ask. Also, soft dry fasting is what I've been doing myself, since hard dry fasts are so hard to do.

Something important I think I should note: If you're fasting do not take Pentox or Cialis; you'll give yourself a stomach ulcer and possibly [email protected]< yourself up in other ways. Good luck everyone!

Oh yea, and shoutout to NeoV who just posted a video on fasting to his YouTube channel. I've been a huge fan of his since day one. I got the alert on my phone that he had posted the video, and that is what inspired me to come back and post. I'll be sticking around for the foreseeable future.

Edit: Also wanted to mention that the 4 herniated discs in my lower back no longer affect me AT ALL since dry fasting. It's f*cking amazing. My knees, shoulders and elbows have seen ridiculous improvement as well. And wanted to mention that during extended fasts you should be ABSTAINING and not using your penis, and this includes for the first 2 ish days after breaking fast.

Edit 2: Refeeding is a science and needs to be done properly. Refeeding syndrome can be deadly, specifically after a dry fast. I will note that I eat a crap american diet during my refeeds, for the most part. In terms of acidic environment created in the body during a dry fast, the last thing I put in my body before beginning a long dry fast is 1 tsp baking soda in water; when breaking it, I break with the same. You need to alkalize the body. The one time I didn't do this (after a 6 day hard dry fast) I had kidney pain. Dry fasting is very aggressive, you don't want to give yourself kidney stones. When you're water fasting and drinking snake juice I will literally refeed how I want. When breaking after a dry fast, after the baking soda/water, (which I drink very slowly over an hour or two), I progress to coconut water which is loaded with potassium. Then I move to fruit as my first solid food, then I move to lean protein, then lastly, carbs. Lastly, in my opinion, a 10-18 day hard dry fast might completely rid me of hard flaccid, and will definitely do the best healing to scar tissue. Duration of fast is key, specifically every day past day 3 is money in the bank. Which is why I'm shooting for 11 day soft dry as a test (hard dry is too difficult to do and lead a normal life; I need to shower and brush my teeth lol). You have to have the fat on your body in order to do it, which I do. As you've all seen, I have no problem pushing the limits and being the guinea pig/pioneering this sh*t, so not to worry, I will have reports to give next month.

Edit 3: also wanted to mention that I love the way I feel when fasting. I get a feeling of calm, along with an odd mental clarity that I enjoy. It’s also kind of spiritual in a sense. On top of that, we get the effect of collaterally making ourselves healthier while trying to heal Peyronie’s. I’m 100% content with fasting as my main tool to beat this disease. As Neo said in his recent video, we’re getting at the root cause. That’s why I do extended aggressive dry fasts; I want to knock this thing out as fast as possible.

A quick story as well: I once broke an 8 day soft dry fast way too quickly, and got to a point where everything I put in my body was coming straight back out as diarrhea. Diarrhea will quickly deplete you of electrolytes. And the more I tried to replenish, the faster it would come out. I ended up having to just settle feeling like crap and take baby sips over the course of 6-8 hours just to get what I could in my body. I've also had a situation where I drank too much coconut water and was experiencing mild hyperkalemia. The moral is, don't be dumb. If you do a dry fast, refeed properly. If water fasting with snake juice, it's not as important, as the body is used to electrolytes and this makes it way harder to go into refeeding syndrome.

Sorry for the unorganized post... I have a lot of info to get out and I'm editing it all in as I remember it. It's a bit disorganized, I know.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Christopher1 on September 27, 2019, 05:50:14 PM
Adding a bit of magnesium to your snake juice - if water fasting - is also a nice idea. And cardioprotective.

Some small rocks of Epsom salts will do. To taste.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: willy31 on January 11, 2020, 08:59:07 AM
Hi everybody,

I start water fasting since 24h and I have some questions.
Usually, I talk with JS1991 in mp, but it's really difficult to join him. His inbox is always full. (JS, do you can send me your email adress please?)

Snake juice = I take 1 teaspoon baking soda and 1/2 teaspoon potassium chloride mixed per 1 liter of good water (not from the tap) and drink about two of them a day (2 liters mixed snake juice) every day while fasting.
1) I take snake juice just for the dry fasting or for the water fasting too?
2) Potassium chloride is just normal salt? If not, what I must to buy? Where? What texture: solid or liquid?
3) Why I can't masturbate me during fasting?
4) Others importants things I must to know to do safety fasting?
5) Do you are agree with that? : "autophagy may be helpful in the early acute phase of a fibrotic disease (by inihibiting fibrotic tissue from spreading further), but it may not help at all or it could even worsen the problem if it's already chronic".

Thank you!
William
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: willy31 on January 12, 2020, 02:20:24 AM
I have interrupted approximately 36 hours of fasting.
I don't feel really good.
I read it's dangerous to do that, it's true?

I wanted to accostum my body. I do slowly and gradually before the REAL and LONG water fasting. It's just a preamble.
But I don't sure I do the good things.
I really feel bad.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on January 12, 2020, 04:57:14 AM
Feel bad how? Describe it.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: willy31 on January 12, 2020, 10:56:40 AM
I think it's ok now, but is dangerous to interrupt fasting before ketosis?

I don't sure I understand correctly this story of JS1991 (page 2):

So I made it 25 hours fasted and then I accidentally ate 2 of those little gummie snacks that come in the little fruit snack packs before I caught myself and literally spit it out. I’m extremely mad but it has to have been under 50 calories consumed. Can anyone with experience with any form of fasting tell me how big of a setback that was? I’m just going to continue the fast as if nothing happened, but I was expecting keto flu at exactly 30-36 hours so this throws my timing off a bit. At least it was just gelatin and a little bit of sugar; no carbs. It’s crazy how second-nature it was for me to just pop 2 of those little things in my mouth. I’m going to have to be more careful going forward. Aside from that I felt absolutely fine the entire fast and I still feel great. I slept great and didn’t have any issues with my ulcer as the cayenne pepper completely numbs the GI tract.

I want to take this moment to add a warning though: if you are eating at a caloric deficit, you can and will starve. This is possible because your body is still in a mode where it gets its nutrients from what you put in your stomach. Fasting only works if you allow your body to switch into fasted ketosis, and have enough fat on you to fuel the fast. This way, your body gets everything it needs from your fat (including nutrients). My accidental break of the fast was dangerous in that if I continue doing it, I will essentially be starving myself. So be careful! In fact, if you are going to fast, go watch all of the videos you need to from the Snake Diet channel so that you can do this safely. I also advise joining their facebook group and potentially getting a guide to help you through the process if you decide to go through with it. I probably will do that myself sooner or later. Also, before I forget, my mantra for this fasting regimen is LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! I will stop it immediately if I feel ill, refeed, then go back into the fast when I feel better.

Bubba, in my opinion fasting cleans your body up, it does not turn it upside down. There’s a science behind it and it must be done right to avert issues but if done right it is the best healing you can get in my opinion. I completely understand your skepticism and I hope I can eventually help you understand how it works as time goes on. Given that you just had a lot of medical issues, I even feel as though fasting can really help you heal up, but also given those issues, it would be inadvisable to start fasting unless you know exactly what you were doing. Do what is right for you, but I ask you to keep an open mind my friend!

Edit: Tragedy averted! I got slight indigestion so I cut out the snake juice (contains baking soda which raises stomach PH levels) and gave my stomach a few hours to spit out some acid and digest the 2 gummy bears, then I reintroduced the snake juice and my stomach is back to normal now. Hopefully that only took a few hours off my fast before I hit ketosis, we'll see! Thank god I do intense research before trying anything.

Edit 2: I forgot to mention that I've been vaping a ton of weed via oil pens and dabs throughout the entire fast. Too much to be honest; this can be done, but it is not ideal. I just don't want to have to deal with the crankiness and lack of sleep that comes with marijuana withdrawal at the same time as keto flu, so I'm going wait until I'm adjusted before I quit. Your body cycles stuff out very quickly while in a fasted state, so it shouldn't last very long. I know that a lot of people read this thread, and some smoke weed (I get a lot of PMs), so this advice is for you!

Someone can explain to me please?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on January 12, 2020, 02:46:00 PM
There’s no harm in breaking a fast, in fact intermittent fasting (with water) can be quite healthy overall.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: willy31 on January 12, 2020, 03:28:51 PM
Ok thank you, i was not sure.

But can you do a little list of dangerous things I can't do during fasting please? For water (and also dry) fasting.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on January 12, 2020, 05:54:59 PM
My only warning is ALWAYS drink water...all medical research supports that and there’s plenty out there on fasting and IF.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: willy31 on January 12, 2020, 07:20:09 PM
Snake juice is just for dry fasting or water fasting too?

But... snake juice contain water no? So, it's not dangerous if I drink just that, no?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on January 12, 2020, 07:36:58 PM
I hope it includes enough water to stay hydrated, but just sounds like someone’s fad.

There’s a keto kamp website that offers free videos on keto and intermittent fasting.  I like that he references his sources for information.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: willy31 on January 13, 2020, 02:12:34 AM
I'm very bad in English. I translate text with Google translate.
Videos are too difficult for me.

Maybe a member here could be my coach to help me to increase efficiency and safety, and ask to my question by email or facebook? It's more quick to get a answer.

You, TonySa (or Skunkworks or others members), do you have seen any improvement of your fibrosis with water fasting?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: AlterEgo on January 13, 2020, 05:47:18 AM
My issue is blood is not flowing into the penis and spongiousm with enough pressure so my penis is plump.  Mu penis is like a balloon with no air in it only the cover is there nothing inside.  I believe this starts at the perineum and behind the testicles and goes into to the penis shaft something is not putting the correct blood pressure in there to make it plump.  Do you think fasting can help this?  I just finished another 24 hours of dry fasting will do another day of dry fasting then try water only fast until 2/1/2020.  Basically the blood flow is not entering my penis shaft and spongiousm with enough pressure so penis is deflated and spongiousum is very soft when erect.  I think the area behind the testicles and maybe in perineum is where the issue starts from. 
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: AlterEgo on January 14, 2020, 06:22:26 AM
Has anyone had any success with curing venous leakage from fasting?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: LWillisjr on January 14, 2020, 05:49:29 PM
Venous leakage is generally a result of some physical injury. I do not see how fasting could do anything to resolve this.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Wethenorth on January 14, 2020, 10:42:27 PM
AlterEgo I think getting your pelvic floor function checked out can help greatly with the problems you’re describing. Blood flow issues can be one of many things but mine personally is pelvic floor dysfunction which doesn’t allow proper blood flow to and from my penis due to heavy tension at a specific pelvic muscle which lies at the penis base. It’s worth doing a consultation with a pelvic floor PT if only to rule that out.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: willy31 on January 15, 2020, 01:51:04 AM
I have problem with my pelvic floor too. It cause a hard flaccid.
Do you think fasting can help me with that too?
Do you think pelvic floor therapy can be dangerous? Sidfe effects?
Do you think the electrolyte water on sale in supermarket are good?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Wethenorth on January 16, 2020, 12:28:41 AM
Pelvic floor therapy will definitely help and there’s absolutely no side effects. You might feel a little worse after the initial session but it gets better from there. I’m starting yoga several days a week and working heavily on my breathing which I think is essential for getting rid of hard flaccid.

I’m regards to fasting I can only attest to intermittent fasting which I did for a few months. The pain definitely subsided a bit while doing IF, I’m considering starting it up again.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: AlterEgo on January 16, 2020, 05:00:28 AM
AlterEgo I think getting your pelvic floor function checked out can help greatly with the problems you’re describing. Blood flow issues can be one of many things but mine personally is pelvic floor dysfunction which doesn’t allow proper blood flow to and from my penis due to heavy tension at a specific pelvic muscle which lies at the penis base. It’s worth doing a consultation with a pelvic floor PT if only to rule that out.

Thanks I have had pf therapy before because after a secondary injury my pelvic floor was so tight it would hurt so badly I could not site down to drive a car, my anus muscles would spasm for up to 8 hours, when defecating it would feel like defecating shards of glass, and would be bloody and so tight I one time had to manually help the poop out with my fingers (sorry if gross) it was the worst pain I have ever felt in my life by far and lasted about 1 year, and I have had broken bones and went through a glass window!  I figured fasting would help by destroying any damaged cells in the area and then upon re-eating healthy muscle and tissue cells would grow.  I will see a different pf specialist that is not attached to my hmo so maybe I will get better help.  I will discuss the issue of improper blood flow going in and leaving too quickly.  So you guys think the venous leak is from pelvic floor dysfunction especially what I went through before?  I will also do true shockwave therapy (not fake gainswave, gainsave is a sham).  To hopefully grow new blood vessels and that might help.  I want my deflated shaft plump again!  On a side note upon visit to my regular urologist, Upon MRI and a few different ultra sounds there is no indication of penile fracture or abnormalities of penile and perineum structures He said it would be about 2 years before shockwave is ready for a general treatment and it is very hopeful and encouraging treatment to treat Erectile Dysfunction and possible peyronies.  They are still working out how many shocks to give, at what power and intervals.  I trust his opinion and he regularly attends seminars with the great Dr. Tom Lue from UCSF who knows his stuff and is legit and on the conservative side.  So this is exciting the future of shockwave provides hope but now it is still in experimental phase.  With gratitude, thanks to all for your help and feedback.  I am fighting to get out of this hell just like the rest of you, I am unmarried without kids in my 40's' this took away 20 years of relationships and I want this to end I want a wife and family and shame-free sex!  Just confirming based on my symptoms the majority of you feel pelvic floor therapist would help diagnose venous leak issue? 
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: willy31 on January 16, 2020, 11:10:56 AM
@Wethenorth : Thank you!

@AlterEgo : Be careful with shockwaves therapy. I read it create new little and superficial blood vessels, but can give you penile fibrosis. I don't do that for this reason. I don't want to make my case worst. But if you do that, give us news please.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: AlterEgo on January 17, 2020, 01:09:53 AM
Thanks I have had pf therapy before because after a secondary injury my pelvic floor was so tight it would hurt so badly I could not site down to drive a car, my anus muscles would spasm for up to 8 hours, when defecating it would feel like defecating shards of glass, and would be bloody and so tight I one time had to manually help the poop out with my fingers (sorry if gross) it was the worst pain I have ever felt in my life by far and lasted about 1 year, and I have had broken bones and went through a glass window!  I figured fasting would help by destroying any damaged cells in the area and then upon re-eating healthy muscle and tissue cells would grow.  I will see a different pf specialist that is not attached to my hmo so maybe I will get better help.  I will discuss the issue of improper blood flow going in and leaving too quickly.  So you guys think the venous leak is from pelvic floor dysfunction especially what I went through before?  I will also do true shockwave therapy (not fake gainswave, gainsave is a sham).  To hopefully grow new blood vessels and that might help.  I want my deflated shaft plump again!  On a side note upon visit to my regular urologist, Upon MRI and a few different ultra sounds there is no indication of penile fracture or abnormalities of penile and perineum structures He said it would be about 2 years before shockwave is ready for a general treatment and it is very hopeful and encouraging treatment to treat Erectile Dysfunction and possible peyronies.  They are still working out how many shocks to give, at what power and intervals.  I trust his opinion and he regularly attends seminars with the great Dr. Tom Lue from UCSF who knows his stuff and is legit and on the conservative side.  So this is exciting the future of shockwave provides hope but now it is still in experimental phase.  With gratitude, thanks to all for your help and feedback.  I am fighting to get out of this hell just like the rest of you, I am unmarried without kids in my 40's' this took away 20 years of relationships and I want this to end I want a wife and family and shame-free sex!  Just confirming based on my symptoms the majority of you feel pelvic floor therapist would help diagnose venous leak issue?
  The penile fibrosis is caused if the shocks given are too high/powerful, so an aware doctor will know not to breach that threshold.  I have personally talked to Dr. who administers shockwaves about this subject. 
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Yungster on January 21, 2020, 04:41:42 PM
Hey everyone, started a water fast almost 24h ago, planning to have it last 72-120 hours depending on how I manage (it is my first fast of a long series).

Will not be taking any supplements in the meantime, apart from acetyl L carnitine as I would like to keep studying a couple hours per day and it helps with fasting induced fatigue and hunger (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4258024/)

Every day/other day I will try doing some light exercice (yoga, light running, a bit of calisthenics) and going to the sauna for improving blood flow down there + stretching pelvic area every morning and evening (happy baby pose...)

Combined with hyperthermia: several sessions of 30 minutes per day (for a total of up to 2 hours)

Hot shower with gentle unit stretching

No sex/masturbation

So far (not even 24 hours) I have noticed less pain, only felt it once when sitting down for 2 hours in a car.
Also had a very decent spontaneous erection which did not cause any discomfort, which had not happened in a while.

I'll keep updates once a day here, if anything interesting happens I will start a new thread.

Any comments/ideas ?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: melting on January 21, 2020, 10:22:23 PM
Any comments/ideas ?
Yeah, eat very healthy once you break the fast. Load up on vitamins, especially C all day everyday. 
Fasting besides intermediate shouldn't be done too often. I guess you get some bad stuff flushed out.(which shouldn't be put in again).
Great program otherwise with the stretching etc. keep improving.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Yungster on January 24, 2020, 04:59:01 PM
End of day 4 (out of 5)
-Water Fast
-Added some sea salt on day 2 because was getting arhythmia (irregular heartbeats, sign of lack of magnesium, has stopped since taking the salt)
-usual routine - most supplements (=hyperthermia, mild P stretching, light exercise, pelvic muscles streching)
-kept taking L-carnitine though
-no masturbation or sex

Peyronie's-wise
-Plaque: cannot really say if there is any difference
-Pain: I have had absolutely no pain apart from once in the 1st day, but absolutely nothing since then
-Penile function: NO spontaneous erections (same as before starting the fast), could achieve a voluntary one with a lot of effort (in order to examine the curvature)
-Curvature: did NOT get worse, I think it got better! flaccid looks the same as on 'healthy' days. erect looks slightly less curved.
-Bloodflow: it seems the bloodflow has improved, Mr P. hangs more fully than usual (even if skipping one or two hyperthermia sessions which happened today) even though it's really cold here. I think we can still attribute this to the hyperthermia (been doing it daily for 2 weeks)

Recap
Day 1 was fine just like any other day
Day 2 was hard, low energy, strained, went to a yoga class = loads of stretching
Day 3 was harder, but went for a light workout at the gym + sauna
Day 4 is better but still I'm not up to much, have been having deficient focus and memory since day 2
Day 5 SHOULD get better as I should be fully adapted into ketosis

Evaluation
Improvements made since beginning the fast (cannot for sure be attributed to the fast): Curvature has slightly improved to the eye (like it would look on a very good day), and I have had absolutely no pain (none at all since day 2) and barely any discomfort (could almost say NO discomfort, seeing how much it has decreased)


Update tomorrow or the day after.
Take care.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: hope794 on January 25, 2020, 09:24:44 AM
Thank you for the updates, youngster!
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Yungster on January 27, 2020, 05:21:03 AM
Overall after 5 days, it seems there has been no improvement. I will give it another shot in a couple months, for a longer time (and start/end with a dry fast)
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on February 10, 2020, 08:56:32 PM
Just wanted to say I’m back to water fasting. The goal is to fully abstain from ALL sexual activity for the duration of the fast and a day or two afterwards, in order to loosen tight muscles in my pelvic floor that give me hard flaccid. I plan on “freestyle” fasting for the next few months, and will likely be completing water fasts ranging from 2-20 days in this duration. I always refeed half as many days as I water fast. I will update on the state of my hard flaccid as time goes by. I believe if I can stack the minor gains I’ve gotten from fasting in the past regarding my hard flaccid, while living a STRICT lifestyle conducive to not making it worse, I should be able to slowly cure myself. We’ll see! Abstinence from edging and orgasm will be key.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on February 12, 2020, 12:43:50 AM
I thought I'd add that this was where I originally got the inspiration to water fast my hard flaccid away, over a year ago: https://www.pegym.com/forums/penile-anomalies-injuries-pelvic-floor-issues/54162-hard-flaccid-recovery.html

To be honest, my biggest downfall when it comes to hard flaccid is abstaining. I find it extremely, extremely hard to do. Not even porn or masturbation, but not having sex with the many women available to me, and not touching myself when they message me or send me pictures. It is F^@$!ng excruciating to abstain from sex at my age and purposely cancel out my sex drive. Fasting does help because it lowers the sex drive greatly, but mine is so naturally high that I still have trouble. That being said, the only serious improvements I've had (that weren't long and drawn out over time) came upon completion of long fasts while FULLY abstaining and allowing the muscles to relax.

I'll update on my situation as I go.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: NeoV on February 12, 2020, 08:08:35 AM
JS, add traction to abstinence plus fasting and you will see massive improvements. Remember that 25% of men using traction experience pain or discomfort afterward. For me, sex does not bother my penis anymore at all compared to masturbation. I say sex is fine as long as your diet is good (low carb high fat). Fasting alone is NOT good enough. Breaking your fast with carbs causes devastating effects on your blood vessels and research supports this. Eat low carb for life and fast.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on February 13, 2020, 04:54:54 PM
Neo, Concerning traction, well, I began traction when I first got Peyronies, which was the month  you started your YouTube channel. I did not have hard flaccid at the time, but I ended up getting it about a month later. After getting hard flaccid it became difficult to apply traction, and it would even make my hard flaccid worse. I did manual traction for months afterwards but decided to stop and wait until my hard flaccid went away. Part of me thinks traction might have caused it, since it seems to be one of the leading causes along with excessive masturbation. Plus, I was perfectly fine when going into a heat/traction session, and literally mid-session developed the condition; I may have been pulling too hard.

That being said, I was under the impression that traction is mainly for Peyronies and not so much to help hard flaccid. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this! Thanks for all the advice over the past two years, you’re a great guy.

On the topic of carbs and sugar spikes on refeeds, I just read the research, thanks for pointing that out. I literally just refed last night from a 72 hour water fast with a sandwich and French fries lol, so will be more careful in the future! For those interested, you can read it here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.medicalnewstoday.com/amp/articles/324894.php
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on February 15, 2020, 03:31:04 PM
A small anecdote that explains why I fast for hard flaccid: after completing my longest dry fast (9 days) I refed on,  I believe, a Thursday. That next morning (Friday) I awoke in the middle of the night with a huge nighttime erection, on the verge of ejaculating because the head of my penis was extremely sensitive to touch (in a good way) and as my erection rubbed up against my sheets it felt so good I almost came. This hadn't happened in so long I forgot what it felt like to have sensitivity and bloodflow in the head of my penis. I've also experienced this to a lesser degree with water fasting. That is why I'm attempting to tap into this vein of healing called fasting, and experimenting as much as I can; there is definitely something to it, for it to have given me those results.

Another thing I've figured out regarding hard flaccid, and this is potentially a huge breakthrough. Usually when I ejaculate it tightens my muscles up and makes it worse, but occasionally it will actually make me feel good and loosen me up. I've been trying to identify markers in my body that help guide my decision on when it is good to ejaculate and when it is not. I've discovered that when my balls hang low and loose I get relieving orgasms. When they don't hang low, tingle, or feel tight, it is a bad time to ejaculate. I've only just discovered this, so next time my balls hang low (lol) I'm going to test it by ejaculating and return with my results. Hopefully I'm onto something here. If I can have consecutive positive ejaculations, I feel I'll be quickly on my way to healing this condition. Especially when combined with fasting, therawand, reverse kegels, stretches, abstinence, all that good stuff.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: samsung on February 15, 2020, 05:40:53 PM
My apologies if you've answered this somewhere else but did you have any curvature that the fasting corrected?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Whyisthishappening on February 15, 2020, 05:45:34 PM
or any pain related gains ?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on February 15, 2020, 06:34:45 PM
One individual reported indentation decreased w fasting, but no reports of improvement in the curvature.  As all anti-inflammatory treatments it’s crucial they are in addition to manual therapy, oral meds and or Xiaflex.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on February 15, 2020, 10:51:36 PM
Several individuals including myself and skunkworks have had major improvements in indentations (mine are filled in). I don’t have much curvature (maybe 10 degrees) but it hasn’t changed at all since fasting. PAIN, however, has been my biggest gain. My pain decreased by about 90% since I began fasting. In my opinion, that is what fasting is best for:dcreasing pain/inflammation. Each time I completed an extended fast there was a noticeable difference.

In other news (and I know this has nothing to do with peyronies or fasting but figured I’d post it anyway), I just tested my theory on ejaculation and hard flaccid. I waited until I felt relatively loose, my balls were hanging low, no numbness or tingling, no muscle spasm, and I purposely masturbated to completion. Once again, the orgasm successfully loosened my muscles a bit as opposed to tightening them. I’m going to start another water fast Sunday night, hopefully go until Friday morning while abstaining, then next Saturday I’ll test another orgasm, this time with a woman, to further confirm my theory of ejaculation and hard flaccid. I’ve been abstaining for weeks and months at a time since around this time last year, so if I can freely ejaculate as I please with this method it will be an amazing improvement for me in quality of life; I HATE abstaining.

I have unlimited fight in me, so I will literally be battling hard flaccid for as long as it takes (years if necessary) until I defeat it, while updating you guys along the way. Once my hard flaccid is resolved I’ll be able to incorporate VED and stretching comfortable into my routine, to finish treating my peyronies. The hard flaccid exaggerates penile deformities, so I’m looking forward to getting a better, more accurate assessment of my peyronies scarring once I’m healed from it.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: samsung on February 16, 2020, 09:20:59 AM
I'm not knocking here, if things work for you, more power to you.

But for me, not eating for 9 days seems like an extreme length to go to to resolve a minor dent or a little pain. If it resolved curvature or shrunk plaque or something, o.k. Otherwise why make yourself extremely uncomfortable?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on February 16, 2020, 11:51:08 PM
Samsung, It was mainly for the hard flaccid which was driving me nuts. I’m a bit extreme in everything I do; I was experimenting. I got the result I was looking for and I haven’t gone that long since. On top of that, I will say that, although dry fasting can be difficult, water fasting for 9 days is actually extremely easy.

Also happy to report (and I’m probably just going to make a separate thread for this specific topic) but I’ve managed to orgasm for the third day in a row with zero I’ll effect. My technique of waiting for my balls to hang low and loose before ejaculation has worked perfectly. This is the first time in two years (since I developed hard flaccid syndrome) that I’ve came three days in a row. I am absolutely thrilled about this breakthrough in understanding the condition. Hopefully someone can benefit from this info as well. That’s why I share my experiments.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Whyisthishappening on February 17, 2020, 05:13:26 AM
 i remember when i fasted hard flaccid was gone
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on February 17, 2020, 09:05:22 AM
For me too, but I had this weird occurence where it would come back with a vengeance on the third day then be better than ever on the fourth and further.

No idea why, but if it gets worse for some on the third day, keep going.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on February 17, 2020, 05:40:54 PM
For those exact reasons I feel like a super long water fast of 14 days or more may just fully release it. I don’t know but I have nothing to lose and it’s worth trying. At the least, it should provide some permanent relief as long as one doesn’t retard the healing process by edging or otherwise ejaculating mid-fast and for a day or two afterwards.


I also just came, symptom/setback-free, for the 4th day in a row using my “low hanging balls” method lol. I don’t know how I should proceed from here; do I just keep jerking off all week and see how loose I can get? Do I abstain and fast for a few days then cum on Saturday when I meet with a girl I know? Not sure but I’ll keep everyone updated lol. I am definitely hanging looser than I was 4 days ago so this is a pretty big breakthrough for me. Very happy.

Edit: I just ejaculated for the second time today with no bad side effects. I’m going to jump into a water fast (starting now) and end it Friday while fully abstaining. The bad effects of edging seem to be reset by a “positive” orgasm, in that muscles are no longer as sore. Saturday I see a girl I know, so hopefully my currently loosened state plus a 4 day water fast while fully abstaining will give me a very loose pelvic floor. For anyone reading this, remember the trick: make sure your muscles aren’t spasming, your balls are hanging low and loose, your penis is as loose as it’s going to get, no tingling in your balls, nothing like that. Feel your balls as you masturbate and make sure they don’t tighten up; it might fluctuate. If my balls tightened up I would just assume “happy baby” pose and do some deep belly breathing with reverse kegels and it they would loosen back up again. Lying down in a comfortable position, possible with your feet propped up and resting on something helps as well. Right before you cum, check your balls. If they feel super loose, orgasm quickly. As you cum, let the natural contractions and kegels come and pass. Don’t force anything, be gentle. Relax for a few seconds and keep your mental state positive; panicking for any reason at this moment (like thinking you did it wrong) will tighten you up. After the involuntary kegels subside and you’ve rested for a good 30 seconds, go back into happy baby pose, let your pelvic floor loosen up, and do some reverse kegels with belly breathing. This just helps keep things loose. From here you should be good. There seems to be a short refractory period after orgasm where your penis will be slightly tight. This is fine, your muscles are just tender. Overall, your pelvic floor should feel pretty loose and your balls should still hang. Your balls are the key: check them for looseness throughout if you want to assure yourself you’ve done it correctly. And that’s it, enjoy the ability to ejaculate again, care-free!

Hopefully mixing this with other treatments will give total release over time. I’m going to go in internally and release any trigger points I have tomorrow morning with my therawand (I’m almost about as skilled as one can get at using it), for example. I’d love to have one of you with hard flaccid try this and tell me how it goes. Regardless, I really hope this helps someone.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: ConcernedandWorried on February 18, 2020, 03:23:35 AM
Has anyone had results in terms of indents filling in with scars older than brand new? I got my Peyronies about 2 years ago now, coming up. I have many scars, unfortunately, about 5 shallow dents. Luckily, none of them are huge per se, they're just "big" to me, because I also have hard flaccid, which increases their visibility when flaccid. I'm worried that it's too late to fast. I waited a while because I was hoping that Peyronies would blow over/stop, and that perhaps I had a little bit of late growth to go (I had read that some guys keep growing up until 30). I know that fasting can stunt growth, so I wanted to avoid doing any regular or extreme fasting until I was closer to 30.

For the last five months I'd been symptom free, so I figured maybe I was out of the woods. Then I went through a terrible breakup and miserably masturbated one too many times in a row. Got stinging pain, just like every other Peyronies scar. Immediately fasted for three days, and then I've been keeping it low on carbs for the past two weeks. I've also stopped masturbating. All the same, it looks like one of my existing dents underneath the head deepened.

I'm freaking out, because I don't have much to show off to begin with. My penis looks so ravaged and dented. I'm starting to worry I've gotten to the point where I've lost enough girth across all the dents that my penis is, for practical purposes, significantly smaller than before. Is there any hope with my original scars, assuming I start fasting now? Can I see results? I know that JS1991 had big results, but he also started fasting within the first year IIRC.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on February 18, 2020, 12:21:18 PM
If you’re worried your condition is worsening, I’d start multiple treatment strategies: anti-inflammatory such as low carb w intermittent fasting, low dose nightly PDE5i, and manual therapy such as VED or traction.  One modality on its own is rarely successful.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: JS1991 on February 18, 2020, 03:34:39 PM
Concernedandworried, a few things. First of all, if you have hard flaccid you need to realize that it is GREATLY exaggerating your penile deformities, especially in the girth department, and once released will be much closer to what you used to be than you would believe. It is the main cause of your penis looking “ravaged and dented”. Just remember that although peyronies scarring is the root of the issue, it is being greatly exaggerated by the hard flaccid.

Next, I know guys can get insecure about their penis size. How old are you? I personally think not fasting until 30 because you think it’s going to grow more and are afraid of “stunting growth” is retarded (no offense) but do what you think is right for you. I’m 28 by the way.

I started fasting in December 2018; I developed peyronies January 2018. So 11 months in. And continued fasting on and off ever since. I don’t think it’s too late, no. And freaking out about it is only going to give you worse hard flaccid so relax your mind. Step 1 for you should be ridding yourself of hard flaccid. Step 2, other treatments. At least, that’s my two cents.

Also wanted to mention that smoking weed tightens the crap out of my pelvic floor and I don’t think it’s conducive to loosening the muscles.

I believe I’ve identified a case of a man being relieved of his hard flaccid, and only being left with the remaining, underlying Peyronie’s disease. It is this post here: https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,7281.0.html if you scroll down to “what happened” (ignore the rest) and read it, I honestly believe that (whether he realizes it or not) the man recorded his account of a spontaneous resolution of his hard flaccid syndrome. I’ve read similar stories on other forums. Let me know what you guys think. Personally, this is what I expect to experience once my stubborn hard flaccid is gone. And then afterwards with physical therapies I expect a full recovery from peyronies. I’m extremely optimistic, to be honest; I feel like I have it all figured out it is just extremely stubborn and hard work to do.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Godisreal on February 18, 2020, 04:05:49 PM
I had constant hard flaccid for 1,5-2 months straight after on set, one day it was gone; so yeah, in my case it was definitely spontaneous improvement.
Personally, I’m stuck with a curve and some narrowing. Feels like it’s fixable tho.
Could anyone explain what a dent is? I’ve never understood that word...
Lastly, I can’t say I share your opinion on weed, JS1991; but however, the thing about the balls hanging low is definitely accurate, because I feel that too.
Nowadays, sometimes my balls feels like they’re gonna go back in my body lol, not sure why tho; could it be because of tight pelvic floor, perhaps? Hmmm, really unclear this sh*t.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: NeoV on March 23, 2020, 07:38:52 AM
This hadn't happened in so long I forgot what it felt like to have sensitivity and bloodflow in the head of my penis.

This is exactly how I feel after several days of fasting or simply ultra therapeutic keto or OMAD. I could not believe how my sensitivity, erections, and ejaculation were. Blood sugar and metabolic issues are so critical to penile health it's shocking, and quite saddening.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: melting on March 23, 2020, 03:00:06 PM
Is it the fasting which does the good or is the avoidance of foods? Get what I mean by that?
 

What happens if you only eat apples instead of fasting or vegan or a carnivore diet? (depending on what works for you)
It's known that certain foods/diets can increase inflammatory responses that are surely not good for Peyronies Disease.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on March 23, 2020, 07:57:08 PM
Restricted calories. Low carb, intermittent fasting, low protein can all be anti inflammatory.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: NeoV on March 25, 2020, 04:27:43 AM
Melting, it's glucose by FAR. Yes, fasting is a level up from therapeutic keto, but fruit is not a good idea.

Also as TonySa said, even protein can spike blood sugar and insulin to a degree, however, the insulin LOWERS and so does your blood sugar much faster than if you ate bread due to how glucagon works. I say fast with therapeutic keto carnivore or plant based is fine. In the case of plant based, supplement properly since a vegan diet can be quite dangerous.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on March 25, 2020, 07:48:02 PM
Neo, do you have any evidence that vegan can be “dangerous”?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: popopo on March 25, 2020, 08:21:06 PM
Try getting all your nutrients in while eating vegan. It's nearly impossible to do unless you take a lot of supplements.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on March 25, 2020, 11:28:06 PM
I know you believe that, but where’s the evidence? 

Medical support that it’s healthy and can even treat diseases and lower need for medications:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on March 26, 2020, 09:40:50 AM
I know you believe that, but where’s the evidence? 

Medical support that it’s healthy and can even treat diseases and lower need for medications:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3662288/

Neo, do you have any evidence that vegan can be “dangerous”?

At the most basic level, veganism is unsustainable without supplementation.

Supplements themselves are rarely independantly verified chemically to actually contain what they claim to contain.

But beyond that, supplements are created based on epidemiological studies and they are inherently flawed. Beta carotene is a good example, diets high in beta carotene from food reduced cancer risk in smokers. But supplemented beta carotene increased cancer risk in smokers...

Something similar happened with lycopene. It was theorised that because increased tomato consumption correlated with a decrease in the incidence and severity of prostate cancer, that lycopene would be good for prostate cancer. Studies with supplementation did not support this conclusion.

Then there is the fact that no native human population has ever been vegan.

And the fact that a vegan diet is devoid in EPA and DHA, and having low levels of those increases depression, IQ and visual acuity in adults, and actually causes irreversible damage to brain and eye function in infants. Conversion from ALA is both miniscule and hugely variable between individuals, relying on conversion is inherently idiotic.

Then the study which showed that creatine increased IQ in vegans but not in omnivores. Creatine, a chemical which we know is important for brain function. Pretty easy to see that it was bringing them back to baseline rather than actually improving.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: melting on March 26, 2020, 02:05:07 PM
I think what many miss is that it differs between people.   
If you put an eskimo that eats a meat based diet since 20+ generations on vegan it might not work. 

I find there's a logic in that if you use a diet that isn't fitting to your dna/body it will react badly to it which then leads to inflammation.   

Many people can't consume dairy cause it was never part of their ancestors diet. If they do consume dairy it will result in inflammatory responses.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: François Gigot on May 07, 2020, 02:52:14 PM
At the most basic level, veganism is unsustainable without supplementation.
I think it's dangerous to promote this kind of idea !
You can have all the nutriments you need with a vegan diet.
To be clear, just some salad is not a vegan diet.

A lot of athletes have improved their performances with this diet: Venus Williams, Carl Lewis, Kendrick Farris, Patrick Baboumian ...
Even Schwarzenegger don't eat meat anymore ! Like he says, we want you to eat meat because it's a big business !

The WHO (World Health Organization) encourage people to don't eat red meat, which is highly inflammatory and a cause of cancer.
Milk is highly inflammatory too.


Then there is the fact that no native human population has ever been vegan.
Hummm, have you ever been in India ?
The followers of Jain culture and philosophy existe since the 6th century BC, and don't eat meat or milk.
Vegans + Vegetarians (vegans who drink inflammatory milk) are 500 millions in India.


Supplements themselves are rarely independantly verified chemically to actually contain what they claim to contain.

But beyond that, supplements are created based on epidemiological studies and they are inherently flawed. Beta carotene is a good example, diets high in beta carotene from food reduced cancer risk in smokers. But supplemented beta carotene increased cancer risk in smokers...
Vegan people don't need Beta Carotene supplement, they eat carrot !
Concerning Supplements, you can not sell what you want ! In Europe it's higly controlled & chemically verified !

And your approch is flawed too because you associate "supplements" with "veganism" but a lot of eat meaters take supplements too.


And the fact that a vegan diet is devoid in EPA and DHA, and having low levels of those increases depression, IQ and visual acuity in adults, and actually causes irreversible damage to brain and eye function in infants. Conversion from ALA is both miniscule and hugely variable between individuals, relying on conversion is inherently idiotic.

Then the study which showed that creatine increased IQ in vegans but not in omnivores. Creatine, a chemical which we know is important for brain function. Pretty easy to see that it was bringing them back to baseline rather than actually improving.
A lot of studies against veganism have been debunked, because they were financed by meat/milk lobbys.
Plus, creatine is naturally produced in the human body from the amino acids glycine and arginine.

Remember: Pythagore was vegan.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on May 07, 2020, 06:29:06 PM
Vegatarianism is not veganism. Do not conflate the two, they are not the same. There are no native vegan populations. It is an invention of the modern world.

The mandatory Jain diet is Lacto vegetarianism - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacto_vegetarianism

The funding source of a study does not debunk a study, but it does warrant one taking a closer look at the methodology and raw data. That same argument (that funding source debunks a study) can be used against pretty much every study which is used to promote the purported health benefits of the vegan diet. 

The Pythagorean diet includes eggs and milk. Pythagore was a vegetarian, not a vegan.

Veganism is unsustainable without supplemention, every reputable vegan information source will confirm this, so if you think this factually correct idea is dangerous to promote, then maybe the issue there is with you.

"Vegan people don't need Beta Carotene supplement, they eat carrot !"

You have completely misunderstood that whole point. Plus meat eaters may take supplements, but vegans require them, especially during pregnancy.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: François Gigot on May 08, 2020, 09:04:06 AM
The only supplement you need in a vegan diet is B12.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: anchorout on May 09, 2020, 01:01:21 AM
FWIW, I've been vegan 26 years, no supplements. Peyronies Disease began in the last 2.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: skunkworks on May 09, 2020, 02:14:27 AM
You will be eating or drinking something fortified with b12, which is essentially supplementation.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: defo28 on May 15, 2020, 12:09:44 PM
Hello,

Since some time ago I've had a curve upwards and pain with it. I searched after ways to improve the situation, but then recently I got injured and the symtoms increased. So after that I found out about this and tried a 48 hour water fast and got great results. The curvature got better (almost as before the injury) and the pain is nearly totally gone. More flexability too. Don't know if it has the same effect for older plaque, but considering the amount of people who have mentioned water fasting it could possibly help with that too. Important to do reaserch before doing a fast.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: TonySa on May 15, 2020, 12:17:48 PM
Is it the pain that improved?  I wouldn’t think there’d be a change in the curve so quickly?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Holistic on July 05, 2020, 12:59:30 PM
From my experience, the more spasms and struggles you have with fasting or keto, the more you NEED to do it. That just shows how dependent your body was on glucose.

So how does one go about monitoring or investigating glucose? I mean I eat fairly healthy. My breakfast just about every day is a smoothie with: 1/2 oats, 1 cup organic blueberries, 1 organic banana, some organic green (spin or kale), about a teaspoon each of chia and flax seeds, sometimes an apple or pineapple, then i fill it up with water and blend. Usually have it in the AM but might save it for lunch to do morning fasts. Lunches are usually brown rice bowls with a veggie and protein and dinner is about the same due to bulk cooking. sometimes ill order sushi or a quinua salad. Weekends i usually go out one night for dinner. No desserts really.

Now I have counted 2 certain fibroid balls that are new and in my signature description, I do feel as of recently my penis has other little fibroid balls and the dorsal tendon of my penis does feel tighter than usual. Not sure if this is Peyronies or some fibrotic autoimmune thing.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Holistic on July 05, 2020, 01:00:31 PM
Probably true, have been eating more rice lately.

Any update on the cutting of rice? I eat a good about of brown rice
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Holistic on July 05, 2020, 01:08:43 PM
For the record, my symptoms are less and curvature reduced after over two weeks OMAD (one meal a day meaning a daily 23 hour fast every day). This is coming off two years straight of regular keto, which DID help massively. But I am getting more results with daily fasting.

I think fasting with keto plus the physical therapies is truly miraculous when used together.

Are you still doing one meal a day? And has your curve completely disappeared?

Im thinking of adjusting my diet to veggies and lean meats. Use my crock pot to make veggie and meat stews/soups and use less rice and other sugar
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Holistic on July 05, 2020, 01:32:12 PM
I regained sensitivity in the head of my penis which was a symptom from hard flaccid as well. Speaking of hard flaccid, that is my #1 struggle at this point.

What is "hard flaccid?"
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: NeoV on September 08, 2020, 07:05:03 AM
Holistic, that diet is a diabetic’s nightmare. The old idea of healthy is ass backwards sadly (like many things in our world). Bananas and smoothies and protein spikes insulin and damages the body. The low fat paradigm has failed us, I highly recommend going keto or doing true 24 hour fasts. Even then, sushi etc is just too damaging and if you have fibrosis, a definite no-no.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: peyroniesurprise on October 13, 2020, 01:01:05 AM
I would say that water fasting the way OP suggests is not a healthy approach.

Fasting is something you get to do your whole life, not a pill you pop once and be done with. It's like hoping that going to the gym for one month every day would get you muscle for your whole life and you'd not go to the gym again.

Take it slow, again, it's a way of life. Start easy with not eating anything from 6 pm to the next day's morning and slowly fast more in the mornings too. I'd say ideally you get an 6-8 hour feeding period and 16-18h fast, out of each 8 is sleep. You don't need to do this daily, you can have off days if you feel like eating more. It's not like if you ate more 3 days a week you lose the progress you made in the other 4.

I personally now just feel the need to fast sometimes, i don't even think about it, it's natural for me not to eat for at least 12 hours. Sometimes if i gorge for a few days i feel the need to fast more and i go for one or two days of 16 hr fasting, then back to my regular 10-12 hours.

However i would say that fasting intentionally for 1-2 days does have it's merits, but it should be done scarcely and only once your body got accustomed to fasting.

I am sure fasting is the natural way to live and we're not supposed to stuff ourselves with food 24/24. The digestive system is resource heavy and it takes away from your body's other functions. If you give it a break, the other functions can start. I'm pretty sure fasting helped with my peyronies too.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Godisreal on January 02, 2021, 08:51:43 AM
Even tho there’s a clear connection with diet and Peyronie’s (shouldn’t be difficult to understand), NeoV has inherited autoimmune disorders, if I’m not mistaking.
At some point you’re gonna have to ask yourself, is the juice worth the squeeze?
Cutting out all of your favorite meals because it helps a specific diabetic guy who has major blood-sugar issues, is something I would never advise to.
Just because there’s a connection between metabolism and Peyronie’s, does not mean all Peyronie’s patients have issues with blood sugar levels.
That’s just idiotic.
Also, to address NeoV’s shots on smoothies... lol, smoothies can be super-healthy and a great way to get nutrients in an easier way.
It’s not difficult to look up what ingredients cause insulin spikes and what ingredients doesn’t.
It’s not that black & white. 

Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Holistic on February 20, 2021, 10:14:00 PM
We as a collective should understand that we are all looking to fight and understand the same pathology. We will each have our own successes and losses. It should be important that we do not talk down to our discoveries. Using words like "idiotic" may be clear to the speaker but not as clear to new members or those who aren't as knowledgeable.

We can all disagree and scholastically provide arguments against each others discoveries. Healthy debate should be encouraged for the intention to understand treatment better and challenge each other to go back to the books and learn more. but not to disprove or make someones approach less than.

clearly Neo has had success that can prove beneficial. Because of him I have taken more investment in my diet while maintaining my likes. ill have sweets here and there. But Ive researched a lot of veggies and fruits to help me. Couldnt have done it without that boost. He hasnt advised anyone to do anything.

Lets try to be more conscious, kind and supportive when we speak to each other. May sound sappy to some. But this forum should be nothing but kind to any and all.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Godisreal on March 20, 2021, 04:23:56 PM
I’m gonna fast for 3 days. Will I see any positives? Or is that too little time? Let me know please!
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Gabriel on March 21, 2021, 06:09:41 AM
Hey buddies,

Just passing by quickly again in this thread to give my 2 cents about 3 things:

1) JS, I'm pleased to read you again bro; it's always smart, always fun, always fascinating, and always a pleasure. Keep going man!!


2) As I stated in my recent big post (what has helped and what has not on nearly 4 years on constant experimentations), I positively think that diet changes, and especially keto, can help or even cure a number of syndromes (see for instance all enlightening Neo's stories about his journey). However, in my case, and I think it could be the same for many other folks here, going very strict keto for 1+ year, in a very controlled manner (keto mojo testing almost every day, very consistent bloodwork including insulin, blood glucose, CRP, etc. etc.), did not help at all with any Peyronies Disease paremeter (hard flaccid, pain, curvature, dents, EQ). I surely obtained many other benefits from it (see my long post on this subject), but after being out of it for 1 year now, I deem that the cost outweighed the benefits. Now that I'm back on a more "whole-food, plant-centered, moderate-carb-protein-fat diet", I still never catch disease just like when I started keto (2,5 years without a single illness and still counting :D), but moreover I have more energy, lost more fat and gained more muscle in 4 months of this lifestyle than in 1+ years of keto. I still regularily assess my blood sugar, insulin and CRP, while eating lots of fruits and clean carbs (legumes, whole grains, etc., which I demonized for so much time), and all my blood markers are all as fine and dandy as when I was on keto. Peyronies Disease hasen't moved, in any department, even when I tried a very high carb session for 1 month at some point (eating lots of bananas a day).

--> SO, just to say: yes, do try LCHF, and in particular do try keto. But if you're not seeing improvements in Peyronies Disease after 6 months, and if after an honest and sound discussion with yourself you find you are starting to decline (lower energy, libido, slower metabolism, dietary or social frustrations, etc.), please don't be dogmatic, and go back to a non-keto whole-food based diet. BTW, same thing applies for fasting: as narrated here in many posts, I did a whole bunch of fasts ranging to 3 to 15 days, while doing OMAD the rest of the time.... Well, for me at least, definitely not worth it; I'm back on a 14/7ish IF routine with same positive results and way more advantages (more energy, muscle gain, fast loss, libido, etc.).


3) About hard flaccid: after nearly 4 years now trying everything, I tend to think that a) The only stuffs I found to relieve it were each time just temporary (at least 5 days water fast; cialis; topical essential oils; inner pelvic floor massage by therapist); b) It does seem like traction and VED worsen it, but also in a very temporary fashion (ie after 2-3 days of rest, penis has always gone back to a "regular" hard flaccid status); c) It may not deserve as much worrying as we give it (I mean, I came to a point where I tell myself "ok, it looks bad from an esthetic standpoint, but 4 years after it still does not seem to change crap neither about erect diformity, nor about pain, EQ or anything... so, [email protected]< it!).


Anyway, this is just my experience guys. Surely Peyronies Disease is not to be tackled the same way bye everyone, especially in terms of diet, and I certainly do not intend to start a stupid 239328844th diet war here. We're worth way much as a community than Instagram or any trash social network on this regard. Just trying to encourage folks who may be losing time here to be smarter than me, and quicker in adjusting things for their benefit.

Take care,

G
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Asphyxia on March 21, 2021, 10:15:56 AM
i have had a similar experience as gabriel, i transitioned from a keto diet to a fruitarian diet and there was no change with peyronies, started getting very frequent erections to a point where it was too much in terms of impulse control and libido

but it seems like it might be something individual, i cant seem to have the right mineral balance on keto and my muscles twitch and cramp all the time
even when supplementing with minerals.

same thing happens on a prolonged fast, i have done many of those, longest one being 24 days, it doesnt seem to be worth it, my blood circulation slowed down and erections stopped at a certain point.

1-5 days fast is the range i would stick with henceforth if i decide to do it again, with adequate mineral supplementation

but nowdays i much rather eat and keep the energy up while taking some nsaids and viagra.
by the way, i find fasting to be much better if im empty when starting it, which i do by juicing and/or by using magnesium/senna(which might deplete minerals i think) but i dont bother on short fasts.
its also a good idea to break the fast with liquid, vegetable juice or maybe a bone broth or meat broth for those on the carnivore diet
i tried to add to my diet juices from turmeric, black pepper and ginger and take shots of it during the day to lower the inflammation but i have issues with digestion and it didnt seem to work for me, but it might be worth getting my gut microbiome used to it by introducing it slowly.

im also not trying to start a diet war here, just sharing my experience
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Godisreal on March 21, 2021, 03:13:38 PM
Guys, can I stay on Pentox (perhaps lower dose than right now) and Cialis when I’m water fasting?
Or will this result in a nasty stomach ulcer?
And will it “knock me off” my fast?
What’s your experience?
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Fubar94 on March 22, 2021, 04:27:30 PM
I have taken a sh%tload of these drugs on an empty stomach and never had any issues besides some heartburn so you should be fine. Not that it was effective at all, but I doubt it will kill you to fast and take cialis and pentox.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Asphyxia on March 22, 2021, 06:34:43 PM
This might not be of much help but i have also thought of how to keep a "boost" during a fast, it seems like using aromatherapy with damiana or some other herb might have some benfits, in theory.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Godisreal on March 22, 2021, 06:56:36 PM
Thanks guys. I fasted only 16 hours and I noticed a pretty solid decrease in inflammation. (Water Fasting)
It’s incredible how the body works sometimes.
I have been on Pentox for plenty of months with no sign of improvement. It really feels like fasting and physical therapies are much more solid than Pentox.
The Cialis, however, has definitely improved my erection quality. No doubt about that.

I will be staying on low-carb, <50g or less/day, and I will definitely do more fasts; longer ones as well.
Not sure how many carbs you can consume on Keto? Is there a limit? I’ve read about both <20 grams of carbs and <50 grams of carbs.
I really have to learn high fat & low carb recipes lol. I don’t know what to eat, really.
I’ve been sticking to avocados, olive oil and Greek yogurt. I know all these are Keto friendly.
Title: Re: Water fasting.
Post by: Asphyxia on March 22, 2021, 08:23:25 PM
Low omega 6 high omega 3 keto diet
Fish oil
Mct oil
Coconut oil/cream
Chocolate 100%(composed of cacao+cacao butter)
Macadamia nuts
Pili nuts
Flax seeds
Chia seeds
Hemp seeds
Egg yolks
Olives/olive oil
Avocado

Fishes low mercury high in fat anchovies,sardines,mackerel,salmon,herring

Brazil nuts and pumpkin nuts got omega 6 but 1 brazil nut a day for selenium might be good, pumpkin seeds are loaded with zinc

Lots of greens.

Havent looked much into red palm oil so i dont know much or if its safe but try typing in google red palm oil coq10

50 grams carb might be preferable till you get used to it and 20grams later on