QuoteAntifibrotic Effects of Green Tea
ScienceDaily (Nov. 25, 2009) — Several studies have shown that lipid peroxidation stimulates collagen production in fibroblasts and hepatic stellate cells (HSC), and plays an important role in the development of liver fibrosis. Hepatoprotective effects of green tea against carbon tetrachloride, cholestasis and alcohol induced liver fibrosis were reported in many studies. However, the hepatoprotective effect of green tea in dimethylnitrosamine (DMN)-induced models has not been studied.
A research article published on November 7, 2009 in the World Journal of Gastroenterology addresses this question. The research team, led by Prof. Hong-Yon Cho from Korea University examined the protective effect of green tea extract (GT) on hepatic fibrosis in a rat HSC line and in a rat model of DMN-induced hepatic fibrosis.
The results showed GT administration prevented the development of hepatic fibrosis in the rat model of DMN-induced liver fibrosis. These results were confirmed both by liver histology and by quantitative measurement of hepatic hydroxyproline content, a marker of liver collagen deposition. Accordingly, inhibition of proliferation, reduced collagen deposition, and type 1 collagen expression were observed in activated HSC-T6 cells following GT treatment. These results imply that GT reduced the proliferation of activated HSC and down regulated the collagen content and expression of collagen type 1, thereby ameliorating hepatic fibrosis.
The researchers drew a conclusion that green tea may protect liver cells and reduce the deposition of collagen fibers in the liver. Green tea provides a safe and effective strategy for improving hepatic fibrosis.
-http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091118101359.htm
I'm not posting this here as a suggestion but rather as something to be discussed. I am aware that caffeine is a vaso-constrictor and as such, at this time I tend to stay away from excessive consumption of caffinated beverages. I do occasionally have decaffeinated coffee and tea, though I appreciate that decaf drinks actually do still contain tiny amounts of caffeine.
On the plus side, green tea does have antiglycation and antioxidant properties properties. Info has been posted here previously in relation to collegan and green tea so I thought I'd post this brand new study. Perhaps it is something that can be useful, especially in combination with recognised effective treatments.
I remember reading something recently about coffee also having anti-fibrotic effects on the liver as well. I believe the article said it may have some positive effect on alcoholic liver disease. Not an excuse to go out and ruin your liver though.
-Skjald
Green tea is VERY healthy in terms of food and beverage choices. I was using it for some time. It was not noticeably effective in terms of dealing with Peyronie's. Like a lot of other things, I think it probably has a marginally anti-fibrotic effect, but not significant enough to be noticeable. - George
Silibinin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silibinin) is derived from milk thistle, a supplement often used because it protects the liver.
It turns out that silibinin has antifibrotic properties in the liver (PMID 9450168 (http://pubmed.gov/9450168)). By reducing proliferation of hepatic stellate cells (which go on to form myofibroblasts) and by reducing the rate at which their transformation to myofibroblasts occurs, less myofibroblasts are formed.
In addition, silibinin "reduced the transformation towards myofibroblasts and down-regulated the gene expression of extracellular matrix components and the profibrogenic transforming growth beta". TGF beta 1 is overexpressed in Peyronies Disease as are myofibroblasts, so lowering them is good.
Most of the studies refer to liver and kidney fibrosis. I don't know if it would work in other parts of the body too.
Silibinin is a candidate for topical application (PMID 20023692 (http://pubmed.gov/20023692)).
s&s
From the paper
Silymarin retards collagen accumulation in early and advanced biliary fibrosis secondary to complete bile duct obliteration in rats (PMID 9303494 (http://pubmed.gov/9303494)):
QuoteBecause SIL at 50 mg/kg/d also reduced the collagen content per gram of liver tissue, it acted as a true antifibrotic agent.
50mg/kg/d (required for collagen reduction in rat livers) comes to about 550 mg/day in a 145 pound human, adjusting from rat to human by a factor of 6 less. That amount fits in with the recommended dosages in the LEF article on silibinin (http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2003/dec2003_report_aas_01.htm), and comes to two capsules a day of the LEF product (http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Silibinin-Plus-90-Veggie-Caps/7046?at=0).
I have some on hand and will give it a try, orally and topically (mixed in coconut oil (http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Coconut-Oil-100-Pure-7-fl-oz-207-ml/516?at=0)).
s&s
I'd like to start a thread for potassium iodide to examine some the claims surrounding it. It is often found as SSKI (saturated solution of potassium iodide). I got a bottle from the Tahoma clinic (http://www.tahomadispensary.com/istar.asp?a=6&id=110067!162).
Dr. Wright has an article (http://www.tahoma-clinic.com/iodide.shtml) on the medicinal uses of SSKI in which he specifically mentions Peyronies Disease:
Quote"Dupuytren's contracture" and "Peyronie's disease" are two "fibrotic" conditions that can be helped considerably by SSKI. In Dupuytren's contracture, thickening (fibrosis) occurs along one of the tendons in the palm in the hand, pulling the related finger down towards the palm. As the problem progresses, the finger often can't be straightened any more.
In Peyronie's disease, a very similar thickening occurs along the shaft of the penis, making erections increasing "curved" and painful. In both cases, rubbing SSKI into the thickened tissue at least twice daily softens and lessens the fibrotic area over a period of several months, allowing for more normal function.
For these conditions, it's additionally helpful to take para-aminobenzoic acid (PABA) 2 grams, three times daily, and to rub a mixture of Vitamin E and DMSO into the thickened areas, also. However, if "caught early", SSKI alone will often "do the job". (It's also advisable to have glucose-insulin tolerance test done, as there's an unusually high incidence of "insulin resistance" in people with Dupuytren's contracture or Peyronie's disease.
He doesn't state the oral dose for Peyronies Disease, but for fibrocystic breast disease and ovarian cysts (http://www.wrightnewsletter.com/etips/ht200705/ht20070530b.html) he writes:
QuoteEight drops in a glass of water daily usually works in a matter of just two to five months. There's one important thing you need to remember though: High doses of iodine or iodide can sometimes reduce thyroid function.
Fortunately, the thyroid gland is very resilient and almost always completely recovers once you stop taking the iodide or iodine. I've hardly ever seen this happen in women using SSKI for the problems you're having, but it's still best to have your thyroid function checked periodically whenever you're using it -- just to be on the safe side.
Regarding thyroid function, a 2007 study found the molecular form of iodine presents no health issue when supplemented chronically at doses designed to impact cancer (PMID 17956159 (http://pubmed.gov/17956159)).
Has anyone seen this 2001 study from Yugoslavia involving KI and Peyronies Disease PMID 11475478 (http://pubmed.gov/11475478)?
QuoteOBJECTIVE: Peyronie disease is a localized and progressive fibrosis. It is characterized by a plaque in the tunica albuginea, which leads to penile deformity, making sexual intercourse difficult, if not impossible. DESIGN: During a 4-yr period, we treated 35 patients, aged 30-62 yr, in different stages of this disease. We applied ultrasound therapy (0.5 W/cm; 10 min), infrared radiation, and iontophoresis with 8% potassium iodide (0.2 mA; 30 min). The patients were taught to administer therapy by themselves. The patients' diseases were classified into three stages on the basis of subjective symptoms and clinical findings. At the beginning of treatment, 20 patients' diseases were classified as being in the first stage, 13 patients' diseases in the second stage, and 2 patients' diseases in the third stage. RESULTS: By the end of treatment, 10 patients were cured, 17 patients' diseases were classified as being in the first stage, 8 patients' diseases were in the second stage, and there were no patients in the third stage. CONCLUSIONS: The method is simple, safe, painless, and inexpensive. Patients were taught to administer the therapy by themselves. There were no side effects. Functional improvement and the cessation of pain were noted by all the patients. The level of improvement depended on the disease duration, the length of therapy, and the stage of the disease.
I'm going to give oral and topical SSKI a shot.
s&s
S+S _ let me know how you go - i tried some drops about 2 yrs ago that said would eliminate scar tissue BUT HA!!!! - waste of $$$ as usual - but give it a go and keep us updated - im now trying keto 7 and pycnogenol but to be honest with you I reckon the VED is the best therapy -
I had to take a break from topical DMSO (70%) and SSKI -- too much skin irritation. I'm still taking SSKI orally, and I'd recommend taking not taking it on an empty stomach to avoid possible stomach upset.
Used SSKI (Upsher-Smith) alone topically on my unit for 2 weeks with no change, in fact, the bents got a little worse. I did have mild irriation from SSKI during that period. Finally got DMSO brought to me here ( Saudi Arabia ) and will add SSKI to the DMSO 99.9% (Jacobs Lab) and Vitamin E as referenced by Dr Wright in his article. Will proceed with care and see what happens. Updates to follow.
I'm finding oral SSKI to be promising so far, though I haven't been on it a full month yet. I'm taking 8 drops a day, sometimes twice daily.
I had a PM about safety concerns. It appears that KI has been used in far larger doses historically from this article (http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller20.html):
QuoteThis 19th and early 20th century medicine continues to be used in gram amounts in the 21st century by dermatologists. They treat inflammatory dermatoses, like nodular vasculitis and pyoderma gangrenosum (shown here), with SSKI, beginning with an iodine dose of 900 mg a day, followed by weekly increases up to 6 grams a day as tolerated. Fungal eruptions, like sporotrichosis, are treated initially in gram amounts with great success. These lesions can disappear within two weeks after treatment with iodine.
For many years physicians used potassium iodide in doses starting at 1.5 to 3 gm and up to more than 10 grams a day, on and off, to treat bronchial asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease with good results and surprisingly few side effects.
There is a case report in the medical literature of a 54-year-old man who, thinking it was iced tea, drank a "home preparation" of SSKI in water that his aunt kept in the refrigerator for her rheumatism. Over a short period of time he consumed 600 ml of this solution, which contained 15 gm of iodide, an amount 100,000 times more than the RDI. He developed swelling of the face, neck, and mouth, had transient cardiac arrhythmias and made an uneventful recovery.
So far on as much as 150 mg of iodide/day, I have not had any adverse symptoms, though obviously I'm going to monitor things as I go along.
I wrote a post about trigger points (https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,999.0.html) (muscle knots) a while back. Since I've started SSKI, they are 90% better. I'm still hopeful about SSKI and Peyronies Disease.
I'm getting some stomach upset with 8 drops (200 mg) of SSKI. Best to take on a full stomach.
Eight drops of SSKI proved too much for my digestive tract, causing the runs, which throws my marathon training for a loop by zapping me of energy.
I've switched to 2 drops of Lugol's solution at breakfast and dinner because it has molecular iodine, which has shown better results in treating fibrocystic breast disease. Breast tissue concentrates iodine, so what happens in breast tissue might not be applicable to the tunica.
Quote from: slowandsteady on March 08, 2010, 02:50:05 PM
Breast tissue concentrates iodine, so what happens in breast tissue might not be applicable to the tunica.
True, but the prostate also benefits from extra iodine, so if you felt that you were deficient in iodine, your prostate might have needed a bit. If the prostate is inflamed the muscles nearby will contact, and that's going to slowly pinch off the blood supply "downstream" and caused localized inflammation. It's one explanation for the vague syndrome called prostatitis.
I ordered some iodine a few days ago and I'm pleased to find some discussion of it here. I have tons of muscle knots like you mentioned once, and they're in lumpy clusters everywhere, with a particular concentration in my pectoral muscles. It may or may not be similar to fibrocystic tissue but I'm going to try out the iodine anyway, especially since you noted roughly 90% improvement in muscle knots after taking SSKI.
The relationship between the thyroid, iodine, and calcium (calcification?) seems to be the link here. Calcium can overexcite the muscles, and it doesn't necessarily depend on hypercalcemia (too much calcium). I have had normal calcium levels on all blood tests, and still, taking calcium always leads to a day of muscle spasms. Another story for another day.
I have taken a prostate formulae supplement in the past which have been great for giving me a nice plump penis all day long. It had things like pumpkin seed and It just feel good to be walking around with a great healthy hanger. lol, you know what I mean.
The prostate supplement I've used for this affect in the past does sadly wear out after awhile, usually after about 3 weeks. Why does this happen with supplements? Can someone recommend something else that might have this effect aswell? Does trazodone or ALC have this effect? Cause I'm already thinking about taking those supplements.
Thanks
Red palm oil is a rich source of vitamin E, carotenes, and coQ10. From Stephan's post at his whole health source blog (http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2010/07/tropical-plant-fats-palm-oil.html):
QuoteThe red color comes from carotenes, but red palm oil also contains a large amount of vitamin E (mostly tocotrienols), vitamin K1, coenzyme Q10 and assorted other fat-soluble constituents. This adds up to a very high concentration of fat-soluble antioxidants, which are needed to protect the fat from rancidity in hot and sunny West Africa. Some of these make it into the body when it's ingested, where they appear to protect the body's own fats from oxidation.
I'm going to use a tablespoon of red palm oil as a replacement for vitamin E. I'm also going to take my dosage of ubiquinol at the same time as the red palm oil.
s&s
Nice, so how many UI's of Vit E does this equal? Where do you buy your red palm oil and is it expensive?
I got the Tropical Traditions product at Amazon. There is about 16 mg of mixed tocopherols and tocotrienols in a tablespoon of red palm oil, not nearly as much as in a Jarrow Famile (http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-FamilE-60-Softgels/3304?at=0), but maybe taking E in doses far beyond quantities found in food is not a good idea -- who knows ...
I seem to be getting a bit of relief taking whey protein on an empty stomach. It is a way of increasing cellular glutathione. Thought I'd mention it.
s&s
I have been reading all of the past posts regarding oral supplements and I need some help :-[ I took some chemistry classes in college but I am reading about so many different options- sometimes I think you have to be a pharmacist to understand. I am probably like many on this forum that will do just about anything within reason to try and find a remedy. In layman's terms, it sounds like Ubiquinol, Pentox, PQQ, and ALC have at some point shown some success with either certain studies or individuals. Can you take them all at once? If so, how much of each? Unless I have missed it, (quite possible), how about ONE specific category that lists all of the supplements with a recommended dosage and if there is a synergystic effect with any other product? I just got my pentox perscription and I want to maximize my chances with any of these other supplements. Thanks!
1) Pentox has the best research data behind it, followed by Ubiquinol, followed by ALC (Acetyl L Carnitine). There is NO research data supporting the use of PQQ for Peyronie's. A couple of us are taking PQQ simply because we believe it might be helpful, but there is NO objective data at this point to indicate that it is.
2) I know of no interaction between Pentox, Ubiquinol, and ALC. I am NOT a pharmacist. Ask a pharmacist if in doubt. They ARE the experts.
3) Pentox is 400mg 3X per day usually. Ubiquinol is 100mg 3X per day and ALC is 2 or 3g per day.
I am using Pentox + Ubiquinol with good results. I would be taking ALC as well if I could tolerate it.
- George
I saw this supplement on the Dr.Oz show the other day. I think I'm going to give this stuff a whirl and see how it compares to ubiquinol. I'm going to try 8 mg a day. I've also switched from fish oil to krill oil. The krill oil is more expensive but suppose to be much more effective, plus it has an extra 1.5 mg of astaxanthin in it.
Anybody try astaxanthin?
I also watched that show. Dr. Joseph Mercola (DO) said astaxanthin was the one supplement everyone should be taking, but never heard of before. He is a big proponent of vitamin D. I was pleased to see him mention L-Arginine as a supplement helpful for men.
You can watch that 5-minute segment here:
http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/surprising-supplement-you-need
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astaxanthin
I took astaxanthin for quite a while. Life Extension has been promoting it for some time for eye health. They sell it in a combination pill containing Lutein 10mg, Zeaxanthin/Meso-Zeaxanthin 3.75mg, Astaxanthin 6mg and Cyanidin-3Glucoside 2.2mg. Since my Peyronie's has been essentially a non-issue before, during and after the time I was taking it, I have no idea on how it affect Peyronie's. I did really like the supplement and will be taking it on and off occasionally in the future. Another supplement of interest might be Billberry. Billberry works by increasing collagen links in the vascular system thus preventing white blood cells from leaking out abnormally and causing inflammation in surrounding tissues. Pretty cool. I've got some on order at this point. - George
Did anybody continue with SSKI and see results?
I've been taking 7 drops a day with water once a day for a little over a month. I tried applying it with the dmso and vitamin E but got irritation so now I just do take it with water. I will let you know what I see. I am also taking a bunch of other oral treatments as well.
I'm doing the DMSO and Vitamin E from the PDI website, along with the sulphur liquid. I think it has kept my plaques softer longer - Dr. Mulhall says he hasn't seen anyone maintain this softness of plaque for so long. But of course he thinks all topical/DMSO applications are "expensive placebo."
hi names jim ive had the Peyronies Disease for 8 months now and i know i will be recognized by my thread where i went over everything from constriction to a vaccuum cleaner(not my most popular idea) but any ways can someone tell me the amount of coq10 i should take daily maybe even the amount of times a day etc
also this is probably just a waste but a came across and ad for noprical; some herbal pills that claims to do great things in a month bla bla bla is this legit at all? i didnt even see the price on it just wonderin if anyone has seen it or tried it etc. THANX SO MUCH FOR ALL THE HELP AND TIME FROM MY PREVIOUS TOPICS AND THIS ONE AND THIS SITE IN GENERAL.
i currently tak 2g a carnitine 2g arginine bunch of low quality vit e coq10 a generic multi.
also is vit d a good thing for peyronies sufferers. i dont drink or eat dairy should i take more vit d?
Quote from: jetedwardz on April 17, 2011, 12:12:15 PM
hi names jim ive had the Peyronies Disease for 8 months now and i know i will be recognized by my thread where i went over everything from constriction to a vaccuum cleaner(not my most popular idea) but any ways can someone tell me the amount of coq10 i should take daily maybe even the amount of times a day etc
also this is probably just a waste but a came across and ad for noprical; some herbal pills that claims to do great things in a month bla bla bla is this legit at all? i didnt even see the price on it just wonderin if anyone has seen it or tried it etc. THANX SO MUCH FOR ALL THE HELP AND TIME FROM MY PREVIOUS TOPICS AND THIS ONE AND THIS SITE IN GENERAL.
i currently tak 2g a carnitine 2g arginine bunch of low quality vit e coq10 a generic multi.
also is vit d a good thing for peyronies sufferers. i dont drink or eat dairy should i take more vit d?
Jim, CoQ10 should be 100mg 3X/day. Forget the stuff that is hyped for Peyronie's on the net. I *doesn't* work other than to empty your pockets. Vitamin D will not help your Peyronie's directly but is very good for your general health and thus helps over time indirectly. The problem with Vitamin D is if you take over 2,000IU, you need to get your blood tested periodically to make sure you are not getting to much of it. But 2,000IU should be pretty safe. You need to use Vitamin D3 form in soft gel form. Its dirt cheap and well worth the expense.
thanx alot will do ill keep the d to a less amount then but will def supplement it in
I'm new to this but everything I've been reading and learning is saying taking vitamin D as it adds to plaque / calcium - and take vitamins E (800-1600) and C (2,000-8,000) at a high level, and a B Complex - I've started taking "Acetyl L-Carnitine" (800-1200mg/day,) - and a low dose of Cialis extended. It's been six months since I noticed this start. With Peyronies Disease I know timing is so important...I'm trying to find a time-line / course of treatment thing...it's not "wait and see" like a Urologist told me.
What's the verdict on vitamin D ?
Brother
I'm not the authority on viatamin D. But I do know my doctor prescribed to me when I first became affected with this nasty disease. George can tell you why your levels of vitamin D are important.
Fubar
Well regarding Vitamin D
There is a study going on in brazil saying that high dose vitamin D and testosterone (both in conjunction with infra-red therapy) could do some benefit.
But no results have been published yet.
http://www.controlled-trials.com/ISRCTN82950322
I personally think, people should have their vitamin D levels checked and try to get them higher if they are too low.
Luc
Quote from: yeoch on May 29, 2011, 02:20:56 AM
I'm new to this but everything I've been reading and learning is saying taking vitamin D as it adds to plaque / calcium - and take vitamins E (800-1600) and C (2,000-8,000) at a high level, and a B Complex - I've started taking "Acetyl L-Carnitine" (800-1200mg/day,) - and a low dose of Cialis extended. It's been six months since I noticed this start. With Peyronies Disease I know timing is so important...I'm trying to find a time-line / course of treatment thing...it's not "wait and see" like a Urologist told me.
What's the verdict on vitamin D ?
Plaque is the result of inflammation. Vitamin D *reduces* inflammation. Calcification is from calcium being deposited in soft tissue. Calcification results chiefly from lack of vitamin K, not from adequate amounts of vitamin D. Too much vitamin D CAN cause soft tissue calcification. That is why it is important to monitor blood levels with periodic blood tests. - George
One question:
fish oil= omega3 ?
Is the same thing or not?
I need antiinflammatory products.
I've bought Vit D3 e i'd like fish oil.
Yes omega3= fish oil.
My heart doctor has me on Lovaza (prescription fish oil) 1gm 4 a day. That is equal to 48 OTC a day. If it is good for the heart it is good for the penis. :)
It not only helps my heart but has improved my difficult/delayed ejaculation.
Jackp
http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com/
In reality the strength and purity of over the counter fish oil supplements vary widely. The way strength is measured is in mg of DHA and mg of EPA contained in each capsule. The numbers on the bottles are mg per SERVING, so don't be fooled. Some brands claim high strength and then you read that there are five capsules per serving. Purity also varies widely. Fish oil is notorious for being a carrier of heavy metals, mercury and others. Make sure that the fish oil you choose is properly processed to remove ALL heavy metal contamination AND that it is tested for chemical contamination to make sure it is free of PCBs and dioxins. Krill oil has the advantage of posing far less risk from contamination. But the bottom line is amount of DHA/EPA per pill. - George
Quote from: jackp on July 02, 2011, 12:13:12 AM
Yes omega3= fish oil.
My heart doctor has me on Lovaza (prescription fish oil) 1gm 4 a day. That is equal to 48 OTC a day. If it is good for the heart it is good for the penis. :)
It not only helps my heart but has improved my difficult/delayed ejaculation.
Jackp
http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com/
I wonder if my doctor would give me a Px for this? I don't have high triglycerides or anything. What would I tell him I need it for? I have 100% drug coverage on Px so this would be better then paying for my fish oils from iherb plus it's alot more powerful.
Is the Lovaza free from metal contamination? Would Lovaza be far superior to my NAtural facotrs fish oils from iherb?
http://www.iherb.com/Natural-Factors-RxOmega-3-Factors-EPA-400-mg-DHA-200-mg-240-Softgels/4251?at=0
What's the DHA and EPA on Lovaza?
My triglycerides are not high either. My doctor gave it to me to help with low good cholesterol.
I know of several that have asked there doctor for an prescription and the doctor had no problem giving it to them. Be up front and let the doctor know why you want to take it.
I don't have the answer to your question about EPA or DHA. You may be able to find it on the Lovaza web site.
I have talked to a couple of pharmacist I go to church with. They tell me that Lovaza is the purest form or omega-3. I take 2 (1GM) in the morning and evening. The pharmacist tells me that is equal to 48 OTC a day.
There are a couple of urological centers considering doing a study on Lovaza. One reason is that delayed/difficult ejaculation is a poorly studied.
Lovaza is not a cure all. It will be 6+ before you know if it will help you. We may be onto something that will help a lot of men. It will not help if you are taking any antidepressant or medication that has a side effect of ED.
Jackp
http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com/
Lovaza is simply fish oil on steroids. It is, without doubt the best fish oil product out there with little risk of contamination since it is subject to full FDA supervision. But you will also pay a premium price for this product. IF you have insurance that will cover it, that won't be an issue of course and the prescription product might well cost you even less than the over the counter alternative. But if not you may want to consider an over the counter alternative. Some of them can come close, but, of course, they will never be able to match what a pharmaceutical company can achieve with their billions of investment capital. - George
AHA! Here are the answers from the Lovaza site:
http://www.lovaza.com/frequently-asked-questions/index.html (http://www.lovaza.com/frequently-asked-questions/index.html)
1) Its purified in an FDA approved five step process to remove all polutants.
2) Each pill contains 465mg of EPA and 375mg of DHA
By comparison the over the counter fish oil product I use is molecularly distilled and each pill contains 350mg EPA and 250mg DHA.
- George
George,
What is the brand of fish oil that you use.
Thanks.
Rob
Astaxanthin seems to be a good supplement for the endothelium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endothelium) (PMID 20868751 (http://pubmed.gov/20868751)). Good blood vessel health should be a positive for Peyronies Disease. I've started taking it recently for mitochondrial health and to help with running since it helps with fatty acid oxidation (PMID 18082622 (http://pubmed.gov/18082622)).
Burning fat is good as you get less systemic inflammation that way. I've been trying to eat more strictly paleo lately to get reduce inflammation.
Astaxanthin might also suppress increases in transforming growth factor-beta (involved in Peyronies Disease) due to an inflammatory diet (I read about it in this astaxanthin overview "Potential health-promoting effects of astaxanthin: A high-value carotenoid mostly from microalgae" (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mnfr.201000414/pdf), which referenced this study (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359511310001972)), in which mice were fed a diet high in fat and fructose. The abstract for this last study says: "Lipid deposition and increased TGF-β1 [transforming growth factor-beta] expression induced by [the high fat and fructose diet] were also abolished by [astaxanthin]".
I think that astaxanthin is looking pretty good for Peyronies Disease.
Life Extension
I am now taking astaxanthin on a regular basis. It is just to good to pass on. It has become one of my core supplements. As is now the case with fish oil, you will soon see it as a prescription med. It is *that* good. - George
Hi George,
How did that Billberry work for you?
I've heard through the grapevine that astaxanthin should always be taken in the natural form and not the synthetic form. I heard the synthetic version of Astaxanthin is dangerous. Is this true? I'm taking the "NOW" astaxanthin 4mg veggie tabs and I'm pretty sure they are naturally cultivated from Hawaii.
Is the "NOW" brand of Astaxanthin 100% natural?
I've stopped taking Pentox as of today because after 8 months I've noticed no improvement whatsoever and don't feel it's worth continuing. After reading stuff about Astaxanthin on this site and others, it really seems too good to pass up. Even aside from its potential to help with Peyronie's, it has so many benefits. I've ordered the NOW brand, which is a brand I usually always have satisfactory results with when it comes to vitamins and supplements. My peyronie's "plan" will now consist of CoQ10, Astaxanthin, and a VED. I'll make sure to update after I've been taking the Astaxanthin for a while. All of the potential treatments that have been popping up on this site over the past year or so make me feel really hopeful.
nebula, Astaxanthin is a great supplement but keep in mind that any idea that it might help Peyronie's is speculative. Pentox on the other hand is closer to a proven drug. So I would be careful about dropping it too quickly. It takes a long time to work and its benefits are subtle. So if things start to go down hill for you, I would get back on it. - George
crash, I've really not noticed benefit from the bilberry although I am still taking it. I probably won't be continuing it when the supply is up, only because there are only so many pills a person can take and there are so many potentially beneficial substances out there. I too have heard warnings about synthetic astaxanthin and try to stay with the natural form. I am pretty sure the Now product is the natural form. I have taken it myself and haven't had any problems with it. At this point I have switched to the Jarrow brand. - George
George, I'm not expecting miracles with the Astaxanthin or for it to be a magic bullet. The potential to help with Peyronie's, even if only minor, is only one of its many benefits that appeal to me. The stuff is just good for you in so many ways. I'm taking it more for overall health and keeping in the back of my mind that it COULD help Peyronie's but has no guarantees. As for the Pentox, I know it's overall the most effective treatment for Peyronie's right now, but I don't feel like it's going to help me and my uro seems to agree. Pain has never been an issue for me and I have no noticeable plaque, so he was hesitant about prescribing it for me in the first place. I know for a lot of guys, resolving the pain alone is a reason to take it. The only thing its really seemed to do for me is increase my anxiety and worsen my existing digestive issues. Aside from that, I have some fungal issues I'm trying to take care of and I think I remember reading on here about how you did as well and had to stop the Pentox for a while due to it suppressing the immune system. All in all it just doesn't seem like it's worth continuing right now. Although if by some chance I do notice anything going downhill, I will be sure to get back on it.
nebula, It all makes sense to me. Looks like you are on the right track. - George
Quote from: nebula on July 07, 2011, 12:19:36 AM
George, I'm not expecting miracles with the Astaxanthin or for it to be a magic bullet. The potential to help with Peyronie's, even if only minor, is only one of its many benefits that appeal to me. The stuff is just good for you in so many ways. I'm taking it more for overall health and keeping in the back of my mind that it COULD help Peyronie's but has no guarantees. As for the Pentox, I know it's overall the most effective treatment for Peyronie's right now, but I don't feel like it's going to help me and my uro seems to agree. Pain has never been an issue for me and I have no noticeable plaque, so he was hesitant about prescribing it for me in the first place. I know for a lot of guys, resolving the pain alone is a reason to take it. The only thing its really seemed to do for me is increase my anxiety and worsen my existing digestive issues. Aside from that, I have some fungal issues I'm trying to take care of and I think I remember reading on here about how you did as well and had to stop the Pentox for a while due to it suppressing the immune system. All in all it just doesn't seem like it's worth continuing right now. Although if by some chance I do notice anything going downhill, I will be sure to get back on it.
I had to discontinue pentox due to spike in anxiety as well. If you already suffer from generalized anxiety disorder it will definitely increase your anxiety...or it did mine.
Quote from: crashbandit on July 06, 2011, 12:07:54 PM
Hi George,
How did that Billberry work for you?
I've heard through the grapevine that astaxanthin should always be taken in the natural form and not the synthetic form. I heard the synthetic version of Astaxanthin is dangerous. Is this true? I'm taking the "NOW" astaxanthin 4mg veggie tabs and I'm pretty sure they are naturally cultivated from Hawaii.
Is the "NOW" brand of Astaxanthin 100% natural?
I don't believe the NOW brand is natural. If you read the label it says "Made from Xanthin and then something about C02 extraction. Well, the Swanson brand says the exact same thing....I called Swanson and they said that their brand was not natural (because of the C02 extraction process). Nutrex Hawaii BioAstin is 100% natural astaxanthin.
I e-mailed Nutrex Hawaii and asked some questions. I got a reply which contained a book about astaxanthin that they have published (Cyanotech Corp.). I assume if you e-mail and express an interest (or tell them you're taking their brand which is called BioAstin) they'll send you a copy of the book (pdf attachment). The e-mail is bcapelli@cyanotech.com. I've just scanned through it but it looks very informative....Fred
ordering this stuff tomorrow too ill try to find the all natural brand prev listed
Quote from: jetedwardz on July 07, 2011, 09:54:55 PM
ordering this stuff tomorrow too ill try to find the all natural brand prev listed
Swansons has it and they are very reliable and prices are good.
Quote from: Fred22 on July 07, 2011, 11:36:37 AM
Quote from: crashbandit on July 06, 2011, 12:07:54 PM
Hi George,
How did that Billberry work for you?
I've heard through the grapevine that astaxanthin should always be taken in the natural form and not the synthetic form. I heard the synthetic version of Astaxanthin is dangerous. Is this true? I'm taking the "NOW" astaxanthin 4mg veggie tabs and I'm pretty sure they are naturally cultivated from Hawaii.
Is the "NOW" brand of Astaxanthin 100% natural?
I don't believe the NOW brand is natural. If you read the label it says "Made from Xanthin and then something about C02 extraction. Well, the Swanson brand says the exact same thing....I called Swanson and they said that their brand was not natural (because of the C02 extraction process). Nutrex Hawaii BioAstin is 100% natural astaxanthin.
SOn of a Bitc.... You gotta stay on top of these scammers like flies on crap! I just wrote NOW foods right now and I'll/ we will solve this once and for all.
Hey guys! Good sleuthing! Actually on my last order from iHerb, I switched to the Jarrow brand on Astaxanthin. And now I read this which made me run out and pull a bottle of Jarrow's product. Turns out its repackaged BioAstin Natural Astaxanthin. Well it will be interesting if I see a difference. I'm certainly glad I made the switch. I didn't have a clue that the Now product was not natural. We had some suspicious issues with Now's vitamin D so I'm in the process of switching away from the Now brand as I reorder. But thanks guys, Fred especially of course, for all the great information. You are really on top of this stuff.
NEW INFORMATION -
Just to CLARIFY this whole issue further. There is such a thing as synthetic astaxanthin. The NOW product is NOT synthetic. It is rather a refined extract of Astaxanthin, thus the term "CO2 extraction". The BioAstin product, on the other hand, is apparently pure astaxanthin. This is rather like the difference between whole orange juice and orange juice made from concentrate. The NOW product is not artificially flavored orange Kool Aid. Rather it is the stuff made from concentrate. While I agree that the 100% natural whole product is probably better, I don't think the NOW product is all that bad based on this perspective. - George
Yep, I just got the email abck from NOW foods.
100% Natural Algae derived Astaxanthin. Other capsule ingredients are natural sourced as well:
http://www.nowfoods.com/Products/ProductsbyCategory/Category/081798.htm?cat=Antioxidants
Thank you for your inquiry,
NOW Science & Nutrition Group
So that makes sense goerge. It's sounds like the NOW foods Astaxanthin is grown in a lab rather then naturally cultivated in the wild. I'm going to try the good stuff by Jarrow brand aswell.
Crash & George
Ubiquinol or Astaxanthin?
According to Dr. OZ we need to take a minimum of 184 supplements daily! ;D So how do we figure out which of the two antioxidants to take?
Not long ago I read that Ubiquinol would revolutionize heart disease, now Astaxanthin pushers are claiming that we can't live without it, what are we to do? :-\
How much is prescribed?
Amazon: BioAstin, 4mg, 120 count - $21
Quote from: sgtnick on July 15, 2011, 10:49:10 PM
Crash & George
Ubiquinol or Astaxanthin?
According to Dr. OZ we need to take a minimum of 184 supplements daily! ;D So how do we figure out which of the two antioxidants to take?
Not long ago I read that Ubiquinol would revolutionize heart disease, now Astaxanthin pushers are claiming that we can't live without it, what are we to do? :-\
How much is prescribed?
Amazon: BioAstin, 4mg, 120 count - $21
Nick, I agree. It can be confusing. There is much good information attesting to the benefits of all of this long list of supplements and of what each can potentially do for you. But what to do? Who has the time to gobble all of these pills or even to be able to afford them? I think the solution is to try to concentrate on the big hitters and to get as much as possible in terms of nutrition from diet. I also think that what might be the big hitters for one person might not be the same for another. For a few years now, I have been taking a LOT of supplements. At this point, my health having improved incredibly and my weight having gone from 200lbs to 150lbs, I am on a path of tapering off these supplements. Even those at the top of my list such as fish oil and CoQ10, I will probably reduce the amount I am taking. Instead I am going to channel my resources to high quality food. But all of these supplements are functional in some way, some more than others. You have to figure out what works for you and what you can afford and do it. You also have to figure out what your priorities are at a given point in time. It also helps to have blood testing along the way to provide insights. Its not easy! The goal for me is and has always been to roll back any shadow of metabolic syndrome in my body and to use whatever it takes to do that in the process. At this point that is rapidly becoming more of a food based project rather than a supplement based project. - George
George
Yeah, LIFE is about "prioritizing" and moderation. Some of my priorities change everyday and that can be a hassle. But for the most part the big things are usually very consistent. Diet, exercise, sleep have begun to take on a very high priority. I also lost weight, 180 to 150 and I usually eat high quality food. I have a pair of German Shepherds and they MUST be exercised daily or they become disorderly. They take me for a three mile walk everyday. So, therefore, I usually can make most things fall into place with just a little effort.
The FIRST priority in my life is trying to maintain a proper relationship with the One who created me! That is the hardest.
I agree with you about heavy hitters and I believe that antioxidants are very important. I just don't know enough about them, however, I am intent on knowing what kind and dosage are most effective. I use Ubiquinol daily and will continue until I find something better. Also, I believe that L-Arginine is a very important supplement, but as with most supplements, I am not sure about the dosage.
What I am sure of is the relevance of natural supplements and good health. We all just need to know how to fine tune our individual needs.
Thanks for your reply and please post anything of importance about supplements.
The accepted dose on Astaxanthin is 4-8mg per day, 4mg being widely considered adequate in most cases. I did 8mg for a few weeks and 4mg since. - George
Sockeye salmon is loaded with Astaxanthin (especially wild salmon). I've been wanting to stack my diet with healthy, nutritious, organic foods for a longtime but it's so hard when your not just cooking for yourself.
As usual I'm picking up exactly what George is laying down again. It just makes so much sense, everything that comes out of his brain. Thank you once again George for the insightful, healthy tips:)
I've been veering away from the nutrition side for along time and need to get back on track. Do you recommend those nutrition specialists George? Is organic foods the way to go?
[OFF TOPIC (briefly)] For some food items like celery, it is very important to choose organic. Others like asparagus and oranges, organic is not so important. And others like meat and milk, the organic label is meaningless. What you want with these products are animals that are eating a natural diet NOT an organic diet. Beef and dairy cattle were not made to eat corn, for example, even it is organic. They were made to eat grass, case closed. It makes a big difference in the quality of the meat or milk. Poultry needs to be "free range". Fish need to be wild, NOT farmed and eating things nature never intended. Every food item has a different set of requirements in order to be healthy. - George
Quote from: George999 on July 16, 2011, 11:33:14 AM
The accepted dose on Astaxanthin is 4-8mg per day, 4mg being widely considered adequate in most cases. I did 8mg for a few weeks and 4mg since. - George
I'm taking 12 mg. One with each meal along with a little olive oil. Haven't noticed any difference yet...still in pain unfortunately.
Hey fred,
I have been having on and off pain for the last year in my penis, expecially after ejaculating (sorry for the graphic details). And I know I mentioned trying astaxanthin to you before because I thought it had helped me alot with my pain. But it seems it may have been a coincidence with starting astaxanthin and the diminishing pain i had experienced. As the pain had returned for myself and astaxanthin was unable to halt it. Now I've been trying Celebrex and I have been finding very nice pain reduction. A coincidence again? Perhaps, as my pain has no rhyme or rhythm.
You try Celebrex yet Fred?
Quote from: crashbandit on July 31, 2011, 11:15:04 PM
Hey fred,
I have been having on and off pain for the last year in my penis, expecially after ejaculating (sorry for the graphic details). And I know I mentioned trying astaxanthin to you before because I thought it had helped me alot with my pain. But it seems it may have been a coincidence with starting astaxanthin and the diminishing pain i had experienced. As the pain had returned for myself and astaxanthin was unable to halt it. Now I've been trying Celebrex and I have been finding very nice pain reduction. A coincidence again? Perhaps, as my pain has no rhyme or rhythm.
You try Celebrex yet Fred?
You're right about the "no rhyme or reason" thing. I though ubiquinol was working for me for months, then suddenly bad painful erections. I have not tried Celebrex. I struggle with chronic constipation (right now I'm on PEG but results are unpredictable...have been combining double doses of PEG with some milk of magnesia). Does Celebrex constipate you? I'd try most anything at this point....over 5 freaking years of pain and now prostate cancer, numbness in feet, etc. I feel like Ratso in Midnight Cowboy ("I'm fallin' apaat heah"). HELP!!!
Hi all,
Please excuse any newbie errors. I've been searching the site and combing through the posts. I'm 46 and my Peyronie's started in July. Since then I've been taking Vitamin E and Colchine. My curvature wasn't too bad but there was some hour glassing. My doctor recommended a specialist in NY City who suggested I get Verapamil injections. The Verapamil has helped with the pain but my curvature has gotten worse over the course of 5 injections. I'm looking for advice on supplements.
From what I read on the forum I've come to the conclusion I will need to start a regiment of the following, but can't find a consensus on the recommended dosage.
Pentox 400mg 3 x day
L-Arginine - is there a recommended dosage?
Acetyl L Carnitine - is there a recommended dosage?
Ubiquinol - is there a recommended dosage?
Anything I've missed?
Thank you all for your help. This forum has been such a great resource.
Paul
Pentoxifylline 400mg 3X/day with meals ONLY (this is a prescription drug that only the top Peyronie's specialists will prescribe)
Acetyl L Carnitine 2-3g/day
Ubiquinol 100mg 3X/day
For relative effectiveness of available treatments see -> http://knol.google.com/k/peyronie-s-disease-acquired-deformity-of-the-penis# (http://knol.google.com/k/peyronie-s-disease-acquired-deformity-of-the-penis#)
Quote from: PablitoNJ on November 04, 2011, 11:04:24 AM
Hi all,
Please excuse any newbie errors. I've been searching the site and combing through the posts. I'm 46 and my Peyronie's started in July. Since then I've been taking Vitamin E and Colchine. My curvature wasn't too bad but there was some hour glassing. My doctor recommended a specialist in NY City who suggested I get Verapamil injections. The Verapamil has helped with the pain but my curvature has gotten worse over the course of 5 injections. I'm looking for advice on supplements.
From what I read on the forum I've come to the conclusion I will need to start a regiment of the following, but can't find a consensus on the recommended dosage.
Pentox 400mg 3 x day
L-Arginine - is there a recommended dosage?
Acetyl L Carnitine - is there a recommended dosage?
Ubiquinol - is there a recommended dosage?
Anything I've missed?
Thank you all for your help. This forum has been such a great resource.
Paul
Thank you George. I appreciate the quick reply.
Pentox,l-arginine and coq10 (I'm only 27, ubiqiunol if older) have stopped my pain. Still have hourglassing but i've only been on it for 6 weeks. And I'm only taking pentox and coq10 twice a day bc 3x gave me bad headaches, even with food, and 5g of powder arginine before bed. I'm encouraged by how I'm feeling now.
There is an article in the LEF magazine (http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2011/ss2011_Rebuild-Aging-Joints_01.htm) about supplementing with collagen type 2 for arthritis. The proposed method of action was that the supplement trains the immune system not to attack the body's type 2 collagen. It crossed my mind that it might be beneficial for Peyronies Disease.
The types of collagen involved in Peyronies Disease are types I and III though, which are also available as a supplement. Perhaps the same mechanism might apply here.
I've written about how I'm also suffering from plantar fasciitis, which a lot of other runners get that involves a thickening of the plantar fascia under the feet. Guess what, it also involves collagen types I and III. I have some on order for a trial, and I'll post back with the results.
s&s
Interesting! Good connection! I hope it works for you, keep us up to date on the outcome. - George
Another, perhaps better, avenue would be to make and eat bone broths (http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/broth-is-beautiful).
QuoteTwo hours simmering is enough to extract flavors and gelatin from fish broth. Larger animals take longer--all day for broth made from chicken, turkey or duck and overnight for beef broth.
Interesting article. Some places in Eastern Europe have traditional meals made of chicken or calf legs/bones.
They are very tasty and need just bread to have a meal. If is also healthy, much better.
James
Hi, i order supplements as ubiquinol for example from SwansonVitamins site.
Also Brand is Swanson.
I've seen that their price is lowest.
But, how can we verify the quality of their products?
More in generally, how can we verify the quality of a BRAND of supplements?
dioporcolorisolvo
In my case, i buy Ubiquinol ( and all my supplements ) in Super-Smart.eu. Good comments and for me one of the most serious in Europe.
http://www.super-smart.eu/en--Cardiovascolare--Ubiquinol-100-mg--0479
Ubiquinol is the most expensive oral treatment for me. But yes, when i see the diference between the SwansonVitamin and Super-smart.eu 's prices, i don't know why i pay the same product nearly 45 euros more.....
In the case of Ubiquinol, you only need to verify that the Ubiquinol in the product is made by Kaneka. If it is, it is the same stuff no matter what the brand on the label is. ONLY the additives are different and Ubiquinol is the active ingredient. - George
Quote from: LauRenT on January 26, 2012, 12:07:28 PM
dioporcolorisolvo
In my case, i buy Ubiquinol ( and all my supplements ) in Super-Smart.eu. Good comments and for me one of the most serious in Europe.
http://www.super-smart.eu/en--Cardiovascolare--Ubiquinol-100-mg--0479
Ubiquinol is the most expensive oral treatment for me. But yes, when i see the diference between the SwansonVitamin and Super-smart.eu 's prices, i don't know why i pay the same product nearly 45 euros more.....
swanson comes to about $ 0.36 per 100mg cap
yours (from Super-Smart.eu) is about $ 1.26 per 100mg
(I converted to $)
you can get it here in europe at $ 0.64 per 100mg capsule
http://www.dolphinfitness.co.uk/en/pharma-nord-bio-active-q10-ubiquinol-100mg-150-capsules/23497
its €75 for
150 100mg capsules and it says Kaneka on the package. (George is right! thats the important thing)
Thats the one I take. Never had a problem with delivery (as they are inside the EU they have to respect some standards)
Luc
oops sorry delete please.
Thanks Luciano for the link, i'll make order there for Ubiquinol, Vitamin d3, ALC, Pycnogenol. Definitly cheaper and good products.
Quote from: George999 on January 26, 2012, 12:50:10 PM
In the case of Ubiquinol, you only need to verify that the Ubiquinol in the product is made by Kaneka. If it is, it is the same stuff no matter what the brand on the label is. ONLY the additives are different and Ubiquinol is the active ingredient. - George
Ok George, but how to undestand the great difference of price between Swanson Brand and for example Ubiquinol sold in Europe?
Its either additives or markup. As far as I know they all pay the same price to Kaneka ... UNLESS some of the low price sellers are getting huge volume discounts.
I was wondering if anyone knew of any supplements that promote elastin production. With things like xiaflex it seem like we may be close to solving the elimination of excess collagen in peyronies, but what about the other half of the equation, the loss of elastin? Please let me know if anyone has any thoughts.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/74096-stimulate-collagen-elastin-production/ (http://www.livestrong.com/article/74096-stimulate-collagen-elastin-production/)
For skin, but some points still apply.