Hi gentlemen,
I received shockwave therapy (6 sessions) from a urologist in Florida.
No improvements in Peyronies Disease or plaque size, but it did improve my erections. (I was also diagnosed with venous leak.)
Questions? Ask away.
Do you plan on getting your venous leak rechecked now that you've had the course of shockwave therapy?
Probably not.
I think I might get some PRP injections as well.
Thing is - urologists agree that having some venous leakage is normal. Most people have some venous leakage. It is just that the INFLOW is greater than the OUTFLOW, giving you a healthy erection.
I'd say try it. It worked for me. I am not rich, so the urologist did 6 sessions for $500. Very nice of him.
Regarding PRP I am proposing you to read:
Priapus shot - Peyronies Society Forums (https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,4639.0.html)
Dr VIRAG PRP and Hyaluronic acid treatment - Peyronies Society Forums (https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,7180.0.html)
PRIAPUS/PRP Injections Trial (forum) - Peyronies Society Forums (https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,4788.0.html)
Debate on Pripapus/PRP efficiency for Peyronies - Peyronies Society Forums (https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,4920.0.html)
If you will have successful outcome from PRP, please report us back as you will be the second one with success with PRP
James
Success with respect to what? ED or Peyronies Disease?
You have the answer in the links I posted
James
Chris,
do you have any details of the energy per sq mm used per pulse and number of pulses per session? (or alternatively the length of session and the pulse frequency)
and what machine was it ?
did you get any bruising or negative effects after each session that needed time to recover from?
I'm wondering what were the constraints to increasing the number of sessions or pulses, (besides the cost)
thanks
I do not know how many shocks per session - unfortunately - or any other metrics.
Mild bruising. Very mild. Gone within a day.
My urologist says you need to wait a couple of months after your 6 sessions. New blood vessels will grow. This takes time.
I do not know if 6 more sessions after that is recommended.
sorry I forgot to say thanks for that info Chris .
very interesting. If I try it I'll post here.
Anytime.
This seems interesting, any new information Christopher1?
I found where to make this therapy in the place I am living.
* $300 for consultation with the doctor
* $3,000 for each session, the doctor don't know how many sessions will be necessary to see some results 8)
So I will skip on the treatment for now :)
James
I will try to get manufacturer and settings when my sessions start next week.
@james: I really pity you people over there. It's just so unfair. Here it's like visit is free and session should be around 80-100€. :-[
James - he is trying to scam you.
Sessions last about 5 minutes.
80 euros is cheap! Wow!
Yes I know they try to scam me :)
It is a known local institute, for people that will spend money without thinking :)
I made in the past PRP with an other institute for $100 :)
James
PRP for $100?
Wow. Very cheap.
I've just finished 6 sessions of shockwave treatment, not for the Peyronies, but to improve quality of the erection after Xiapex treatment. Too soon to decide on success, but anecdotally so far there seems to be an improvement. Cost £1750 (St Peter's Andrology, London) for the 6, but you're supposed to wait 3 weeks and have another 6 for the full course. Machine is an ED1000 (lots of info on Google if you want), low intensity, but increasing with the last treatment. They do four sites: upper, middle and lower across both cavernosa, and one each on the root. I think it's 1500 shocks per site, and it takes about 20 minutes for a single treatment. A very pleasant and chatty Italian urologist administered the treatment, by name of Giovanni Chiriaco. No pain, no bruising. You can feel the thump going through the one cavernosa to the other though.
WW
Excellent!
[Full quote removed - Use Reply instead of Quote] - Admin
Any update on this? I'm from London and recently found out about that place which has gotten me pretty excited. I just found their website. Is it definitely a legit place that has a history of producing positive results though?
Have you noticed improvements since the shock therapy?
I'm not sure I have peyronies but my erections have been much worse for about 7-8 months now. I can still get the same length but I've lost about 0.5-1 inch in girth (depending on the day and when it was I last masturbated). Wondering if it's a venous leak and I heard that place deals with that too. The unique thing about my case seems to be the girth loss... but no length loss. It's really bizarre. Can't find anything else online quite like it.
But yeah, if you could answer my questions ASAP that'd be great : )
Well, I've already have an improvement about like 20% longer erection duration with more stability. But now I've got a CPPS flare up and can't test at the moment. Last treatment was Thursday, now 6 weeks of waiting time to see further improvement.
I was talking to WillyWonka but the quote was deleted from my post for some reason.
[Simply read the forum rules. On this forum we don't allow full prior quotes unless you edit down to the relevant part of the quote.]
Sahara, sorry to reply so late; I'm not on the forum that much.
Yes, I can say there is a moderate but definite improvement after the shockwave treatment. I'm talking of course about quality of erection. They don't advise the treatment for peyronies itself. I can also see why the full treatment is another 3 weeks worth. I'm not in London, so I would have to get here two days a weeks for three weeks, which is difficult. But anytime I can make it, I'll be back for more.
I have found St Peters to be very professional, and the senior people are leading Andrologists in Europe.
Excellent.
Whats the meaning of moderate improvement ?
Are there any conditions/situations where shockwave therapy could conceivably make things worse?
Highly, highly unlikely.
I doubt it will make Peyronies Disease much better. It is good for venous leaks though.
Christopher1 where in Florida did you go and how much was the PRP ?
I went to a doc in Broward County. PM me for details.
And it is shockwave therapy - not PRP.
"Whats the meaning of moderate improvement ?"
Indeed. Not have a ready metric, it's difficult to convey. Say on a scale of 1-10, 10 being a full erection, I was around 4 and now a 6 based on a natural erection (no oral or injected assistance).
This is my first post here. I have tried several treatments such as enzymes and Vit. E. What I came here for is to get some suggestions from posters. ESWT is an excellent suggestion - thank you
After reading several articles on low intensity ESWT I am looking forward to trying this modality. My plans are to purchase an ESWT device. I suspect I will get a SW9 for around $2K.
The States are way behind many areas of the world with ESWT. I likely will purchase the SW9 from China. These devices are sold under the guise of health and beauty aid to circumvent the FDA during importation.
Here in Nashville, TN only chiropractors would consider the use of ESWT. I plan on using the device for trigger points as well.
Very interesting.
Where do you purchase the SW9?
Christopher1, are you aware of the below study ?
https://f1000.com/prime/718052469
skunkworks, newbern - this is an excerpt from the study ,
Penile deviation was not reduced by ESWT (P=0.66) but worsened in 20/50 (40%) and 12/49 (24.5%) patients of the ESWT and placebo-group, respectively (P=0.133). Plaque size reduction was not different between the two groups (P=0.33). Additional, plaque size increased in five patients (10.9%) of the ESWT group only. An improvement in sexual function could not be verified (P=0.126, RR=0.46).
the author also said : In fact, ESWT should not be offered to Peyronies Disease patients any more. We now have the evidence to not recommend this treatment to our patients. However, there is only one exception: when there is predominant pain that affects quality of life of the individual. In these cases the patients have to be informed that deviation may worsen after ESWT.
the full text is not available free. it was commented on it, in a more positive study (Chung), that it was possible that inappropriate energy flow was used, but he didn't offer any actual information about that.
if you did buy /use the machine please do post about your experiences. The cheapest machines I've seen are $1.3K + shipping
This info from projectpd seems crucial, can it be highlighted or made sticky here?
I cannot open the study. : (
https://www.docdroid.net/IeoNF1t/hatzichristodoulou2013.pdf
skunkworks that's much appreciated.
I think there is some more information revealed in this we could take into account.
Considering Chung's comment about the energy flow: there was a somewhat higher energy density in the Hatzichristodoulou study .29mJ/mm , vs .25mJ/mm in the Chung study.
It was a different lithotriptor model/manufacturer used :reading the manufacturer statements about them, both the energy density and also the focus can be adjusted, but the studies do not give information about if/ how the device was focused on the plaque.
In Chung's study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4643174/)
"No petechial bruising, dysuria or urethral bleeding was observed." , but in Hatzichristodoulou's study, "local petechial bleeding was observed in 247/306 sessions (80.7%)" .
That's a lot of sessions - with only the 51 patients, it would be a fair bet it affected more than 80.7% of the patients too (ie. in at least 1 session) . Therefore I wonder if possibly the particular energy level, and/or focus settings, (or some other difference in the machines) were too damaging for most patients in Hatz's study.
In the Hatz' study, the mean deviation did still improve by 9 degrees with the treatment , even though it was a smaller number that improved than worsened. Therefore it seems as if the average worsening must have been a smaller amount than the average improvement.
The Hatz study states that a 4 degree improvement is not clinically meaningful, but then only a small number of sessions are done in each study. eg 6 sessions in the H study. There seems no data or suggestion made that further sessions would have no further effect. If comparing it to the effect of the same number of traction or ved sessions , an improvement by that amount should still be quite impressive, and especially if it could be continued.
If we do try a machine it might be wise to keep the energy low, understand about the focusing, and monitor for the petechial bleeding, and not expect rapid results.
So i saw a picture of the device in question and it seems to produce very focused beams. This may be the problem.
The device used in my therapy has a flat contact surface and will send unfocused (or semi-focused) waves through the tissues. Focusing those would be crazy. I can see this working for tendons, but not for Peyronie's without damage.
Also their setup seems prefer on using the device statically above a certain position, whereas my therapy included moving it all over the penis, while applying somewhat more attention to the plaque areas.
they are interesting points Tychy. All the studies I read that mention it, say that focused waves were used, including ones that were positive, but don't say , if anything , more than that ultrasound and palpation was used to identify the target.
Your therapy was the linear focus adaptor, so out of the 3 options, that should be much less focused on a given point than the first adaptor, but not as unfocussed as planar.
There are several ways of generating ESWT and there is also a different form of ESWT, RSWT (radial shockwave therapy ) that is unfocused, I couldn't find any studies on.
of course we wouldn't want to be focusing so much energy that it effectively inflicts enough new damage to set off new Peyronies all over again, which may be what is happening.
Mine was caused by trauma, but nothing enough to cause any visible bleeding, so something that does do that, would be concerning.
Quote from: projectpd on August 31, 2017, 03:01:44 PM.
Mine was caused by trauma, but nothing enough to cause any visible bleeding, so something that does do that, would be concerning.
Same for me. Cowgirl crushdown.
The head used in my therapy is the middle one: http://elvation.de/images/stories/produkte/PW2/Triple%20TQ-web-PW2.jpg
That sounds painful!
Cowgirl crushdown? Wow.
Same as, Cowgirl "crushdown", even heard a braking noise from inside my body, same as when I broke my tibia bone many years ago.
Painful, but still continued the intercourse.
Then the Peyronies and ED started.
James
My God...
Happened to me too.
She was just about to go off bang, got overexcited...and crunch!...
I am never having sex in that position. Too dangerous.
For some woman this is the only position they can orgasm as they have full control on they movements.
I think that more awareness from the man side can avoid those crashing.
James
Avoid those women. = /
Hello, I called about the GAINSWAVE treatment for ED and Peyronies and the price is $5,000.00 in Annapolis Maryland. I am skeptical.
Explain venous leak
Venous leak = the erectile tissues in your penis do not expand sufficiently for the veins to become pinched off. Hence, the blood leaks out and your erection fails.
Shockwave is the latest trend it seems. 2 doctors have opened a new clinic to specialize in shockwave ED therapy in Cape Girardeay Mo. I have no idea if it works and no idea if insurance covers it but I am certain they will be certain they will get their hands on your money if you have treatment.
Haven't heard of insurance covering it, nor good studies to support it.
Hi Christopher
Hope your well.
Thanks for sharing this treatment with us. Really appreciate it.
Wanted to ask if the guys that have undergone this therapy last year, have they noticed any further improvements?
And are your symptoms pretty consistent now?
Cheers
Hey One op,
For me, 4 weekly shockwaves sessions made a great improvement in pain (and EQ)... which came back 3 weeks after. Another session helped, but the positive effect lasted no more than 10 days, then pain came back (but not my 500€).
SO... I cannot tell; if I could, I'd buy a shockwave machine on my own and use it every other week, but it's too early and too expansive for me.
I am not sure how permanent the benefits are.
I made a thread about buying a Jeanie Rub Massager to basically give yourself a "shockwave" treatment at home at no cost.
I had shockwave treatment.
!2 sessions........2 per week for 3weeks then a 3 week break then again 2 per week for another 3 weeks..........
Cost------$1800.00
Don't think I had any improvement with my ED.......
Great for those that had success w it but it's too bad I didn't........
Good luck to all.......
Cheap and at-home alternative to Shockwave Therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease - Peyronies Society Forums (https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,10047.0.html)
Shockwave is a waste of money
A few had some success for ED and often it didn't last. No one had success for peyronies that I've heard of!
It helped my erections. Not my Peyronies Disease.
In my mind I see it as mainly a tool to home stem cells into the area, with limited use for ED as well.
Yes, instead of finding a solution to a autoimmune process involving high degree of inflammation and scarring by finding its CAUSES, just apply more shockwave and destroy what is left of a healthy penis and CAUSE more inflammation. Humanity really deserves a slap, i wish the worst on the doctors recommending this bullcrap just to earn more money...
Shockwave therapy is therapeutic - not destructive.
Quote from: Christopher1 on April 09, 2017, 02:55:09 AM
Hi gentlemen,
I received shockwave therapy (6 sessions) from a urologist in Florida.
No improvements in Peyronies Disease or plaque size, but it did improve my erections. (I was also diagnosed with venous leak.)
Questions? Ask away.
I have tinnitus and am concern about the volume of shockwave therapy even if I wear hearing protection. How loud is it? Did it cause any ringing in your ears? Thanks.
tcvcm,
Mine was just a quick pulsating clicking sound............
Not loud at all...........At least the one they used w me.........Shouldn't be a problem.....
Good Luck
Quote from: blackdiamond on February 06, 2019, 01:02:05 PM
tcvcm,
Mine was just a quick pulsating clicking sound............
Not loud at all...........At least the one they used w me.........Shouldn't be a problem.....
Good Luck
Thanks. Sorry you had no improvement. Was it the Gainswave device or a different model?
tcvm,
I'm pretty sure it was Gainswave.........Good Luck..
Be very skeptical!
You should be. That is too much money.
There are physicians out there that provide it for cheaper. Also look into my Jeanie Rub thread.
Erectile dysfunction, formerly known as impotence, is the ability of a man to maintain or achieve an erection that is strong enough to let him perform well during sexual intercourse.
This condition can affect any man. Sometimes, it might arise due to any common daily-life reason like elevated stress levels, a brief hormonal change, or any other injury or operation performed within that area.
GAINSWave (https://mensclinicorlando.com/gainswave-shockwave-therapy-orlando/)is a name given to a treatment option for erectile dysfunction that focuses on delivering high-frequency shockwaves to the penile tissue.
Quote from: mensclinicorlando on October 15, 2020, 11:05:23 AM
Erectile dysfunction, formerly known as impotence, is the ability of a man to maintain or achieve an erection that is strong enough to let him perform well during sexual intercourse.
This condition can affect any man. Sometimes, it might arise due to any common daily-life reason like elevated stress levels, a brief hormonal change, or any other injury or operation performed within that area.
GAINSWave (https://mensclinicorlando.com/gainswave-shockwave-therapy-orlando/)is a name given to a treatment option for erectile dysfunction that focuses on delivering high-frequency shockwaves to the penile tissue.
please do not promote GAINSWave on here it is not TRUE SHOCKWAVE it is only acoustic wave and therefore a sham as only true shockwave has been shown to work
Quote from: james1947 on June 13, 2017, 02:47:10 PM
I found where to make this therapy in the place I am living.
* $300 for consultation with the doctor
* $3,000 for each session, the doctor don't know how many sessions will be necessary to see some results 8)
So I will skip on the treatment for now :)
James
Hi James, $3k for a session? Wow, well, I bought mine on aliexpress for 500 inspired after good results from phizio, now the SWTis at home 2 times a week for maintenance,
cheers
Boziu
In the USA the shock wave therapy cost
$3000, this country has the most expensive medical care in the world, is pathetic
Quote from: bodziu on October 25, 2020, 05:29:56 PM
Hi James, $3k for a session? Wow, well, I bought mine on aliexpress for 500 inspired after good results from phizio, now the SWTis at home 2 times a week for maintenance,
cheers
Boziu
Hi which device did you purchase and what results have you gotten so far?
Argeebee, you should get the treatments in Europe, they are cheaper.