Hi all
I'm starting this thread because of the seemingly complete and almost miraculous improvement that another member has posted about in the thread' Accounts of Improvement '
The user IhatePD, who is an established user going back several years posted that he pretty much had complete straightening and return to initial shape of his penis this year. Without recently carrying out any physical treatment. He speculates that it may be a product that he was taking for another condition called Biocell. Which is combination of Type 2 Collagen, Hyaluronic Acid and Chondroitin. This product is then sold by Biocell to various other companies who seem to adjust it a little bit , give it their own name, and possibly add other elements
We're not permitted to reply or discuss on the improvements board as it is for accounts of improvement only , and not discussion. But I think that it is such a big story that it should be in a thread where it can be discussed, so I am listing it here
Here is the original post. All other comments have been deleted by the mods, which is fair enough as that board is not for replies as I mentioned. I'm just making you aware of this incase you wonder why it seems like IhatePD is speaking to himself!
https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,16392.msg146385.html#new
It certainly interests me. And the relationship between Type 2 collagen and Peyronies ( which appears to be mostly type 1 and 3) is very thought provoking. The biocell website states that their products also have anti fibrotic benefits.
I'm not sure whether taking a product with extra Collagen in it, would be useful in the acute phase when the scar tissue is forming or not. But perhaps it is more beneficial in the stable phase once the wound has fully healed with the non flexible plaques that cause us so many problems!
I have bought some , but haven't started yet. My injury and onset was the Summer of 2018 so I'm fully stable with my condition now
Cheers all
Fix
Very interesting - I'll stay tuned for your reports and progress.
nemo
I haven't started taking them yet . I'm still not 100% sure to be honest. I'm hoping to get some more input from people about this. I'm just a little bit concerned that extra Collagen of any sort could promote more Peyronies ( especially if I start traction/ VED again )
I've messaged IhatePD to try and find out the latest, but haven't heard back yet. I think there was another user Mike who's post was deleted from the improvements board who seemed to have also experienced some positive results, but I think he was taking Hyaluronic Acid only
So it all hinges on this one account of improvement basically by IhatePD, that along with anyone else who may have attempted since
I think I will email Dr Trost about it , try and get his input. In the meantime, hopefully some other users will have something to add to this thread
Fix
Isn't Peroynes an excess of collagen on the area of the scar tissue?
Yes, I believe so. Which is why most of us would never consider taking anything that would encourage or provide extra collagen normally
But user 'IhatePD' took this supplement for another condition ( he also took MSM as stated in the orignal post) and he seemed to have this almost miraculous recovery. He states that it may be down to the MSM too, he couldn't say and just didn't know
I'm just speculating whether at the stable phase of Peyronies which he would have been at, the introduction of Collagen may have a positive effect rather than the negative that it would surely have if it was provided at the time of initial injury. And I suspect the type of Collagen may play a part here also. These Biocell products are Type2 , Whereas Peyronies plaques normally are higher in type 1 and type 3 I believe
It's probably a combination of the things he was taking, and the treatments over the years ( he had Xiaflex and PRP I Believe several years ago ) . Seems a bit late for spontaneous improvement 9 years in doesn't it , but could have been this too granted
It just sounds as though the improvement that he had came in recent times after only taking these meds. No traction/VED or anything else it seems
I would like to hear back from the user before I decide what to do next and whether to give this a go or not. And am hoping some of he other member more knowledgeable than myself will know some thing about this
I will message Dr Trost too and hope for a reply
What we consume doesn't always turn into the thing our bodies make them into in the end. Fats would be a good example, consumption of good fats would actually make you lose weight (whereas comnsumption of carbohydrates and sugars would normally store them as fats. This also depends on the insulin sensitivity and level, etc).
Chondroitin however, I think I saw an article saying it can contribute to fibrosis. Don't quote me on it.
In the aritle below, confirmed something I believe might be the case. For example, a number of spontaneously healed men shared how they experienced some pain days or a week priror to their Peyronies Disease just miraculously returned to normal.
"In fact, some studies have suggested that ongoing inflammation is needed to reverse established and progressive fibrosis."
(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2693329/)
I believe this is them returning to the "acute" phase (triggered by something), where something could be done/happen to make a difference. I think it's important that we keep records when we change our diet, lifestyle, sexual activity, supplementation and if the Peyronies Disease suddenly feel better or worse.
I personally think that Pentox alone may keep someone in the acute phase. What ones do during the acute phase may determine whether his Peyronies Disease will improve, or not. But I really have no studies to support these thoughts.
I notice that everytime I take Great Lakes Gelatin 2 tablespoon scoops I get less pain for a few days and good erections the same day. This in combination with vitamin C. In a study, Gelatin with vitamin C improved collagen synthesis drastically in athletes. An experienced healing guy said my penis needs collagen to heal. So that's why I took the Gelatin.
Before this I tried chondroitin sulfate, glucosamine, MSM combination supplement but that didn't do anything at all and the MSM was poisoning my body according to the healer guy.
@Bayou, do you take the Great Lakes Beef Galatin or the Great Lakes Gelatin Collagen Hydrolysate? I normally get diarrhea every time I take collagen or gelatin so but I heard the Gelatin Collagen Hydrolysate is much better absorbed and causes less of this.
What im wondering is if he happened to consume other types of collagen(connective tissue in meat/poultry, bone broth, gelatine)while taking the supplement.
So, assuming this really works and we only need type 2 collagen
Would it be better to avoid any other types of collagen while consuming type 2
I took the Great Lakes Gelatin, I put 2 tablespoons in a glass then put in some cold water, stir until it becomes clumpy and then put in hot water and stir again, leaving me with a nice liquid drink. I tried it yesterday and the day before again and both days I had quite good erections where normally I have ED. The pain is also noticeably less to none after drinking it for atleast 2 days. I didn't take any other collagen supplements. I did take vitamin C and topical mixed tocopherols vitamin E and oral mixed tocopherols vitamin E but the erections are really due to the gelatin as before I also had tried it without the vitamin E and it worked the same way.
Gelatin is packed with amino acids and it increases collagen synthesis massively, when taken with vitamin C and doing light exercise. I cycle small lengths.
Keep us posted Bayou, and good luck!
I've been reluctant to supplement with vitamin C, collagen, or calcium.
Yep, can confirm the Great Lakes Collagen hydrolysate (Chock full of Amino's) improves erections, but also sleep too. The hydrolysate dissolves perfectly in warm water then just chug it.
12g morning, 12g evening.
Don't bother with the red can stuff, green can all the way.
Only been using for a few days but penis already 'seems' healthier.
Looking forward to updates :)
Paul.
This is all looking very encouraging. Please keep us updated.
I am reading lots of conflicting ideas about collagen and unsure where to start. Type 2 seems to be the place to start as this whole thread has been built on the experience of taking the Biocell type 2 with Hyaluronic Acid and Chondroitin but read that the benefits of marine collagen type 1 is way more effective for other reasons. Now hearing that Beef collagen hydrolysate has benefits, it all seems a bit of a minefield. Looking forward to more positive experience and feedback and pinning down a more definitive idea of what is beneficial to this crap condition that is Peyronies.
Thanks all for your continued input, what a great community
Nick
OK, I've ordered some Great Lakes Collagen hydrolysate to try but I was able to buy some Verisol today and will give that a try while I am waiting for my Great Lakes to show up. Will report back on how they go.
I am with Big L on the conflciting data on collagen.
Peyronies Disease plaque and fibrosis are made of collagen type I and type III. I don't know if you take a type of collagen, whether it will express in the body as the same collagen type. But I've stopped taking anything with chondroitin because of this data below:
I would be keen to hear from people who are taking pure type 2 collagen.
Low molecular weight proteoglycans containing dermatan sulfate and chondroitin sulfate can modulate TGF-β positively, acting as a co-receptor, and enhance the response of this factor [5], [18], [19]. Consequently, the increase of chondroitin sulfate in Peyronie's samples reinforces the hypothesis that such compound is altered in albuginea tissues from patients with Peyronie's disease compared to non-affected tissues. It is not possible to determine if chondroitin sulfate is involved with the development of the Peyronie's disease or it is a result of the changes that lead to the plaque formation. Although we do not have experimental evidence, we can hypothesize that higher levels of chondroitin sulfate could intensify the effect of TGF-β.
Source: Extracellular matrix alterations in the Peyronie's disease
URL: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5491452/
Update: Still feeling benefits from Collagen Hydrolysate from Great Lakes.
It must be the Amino balance as most mornings getting wood, penis feels and looks plumper.
Will update again :)
Paul.
Hey Paul
Are you currently taking any supplements, for example l'arginine ?
I had been using Arginine separately (Health Leads UK) pure capsules (no additives) but not so much since starting Collagen Hydrolysate from Green Lakes as its one of the amino's included.
Some tend to think Lysine and Proline is good for penis health, they are also in the collagen.
What's the Cod liver oil for??, make sure it's very pure :)
Paul
Hi Paul, that was the reason I asked about other sups as I wondered if you had the same benefits using just arginine as you do the collagen on it's own.
As for the cod liver oil, i cant remember, other reading it was good somewhere here. At this point I'll try anything plus cod liver oil is good for you anyway.....in for a penny in for a pound as they say here in some parts of the UK.
Thanks for the reply.
I still haven't started taking the Biocell tablets that ordered . I ordered the same ones that the user 'IhatePD' said that he'd been using on his original post before improvements ( Source natural Hylauronic Acid is teh name on the box )
Seeing as his is the only case of apparent total recovery using these tablets ( and MSM), I would like to hear back from him before I start. Especially because of the uncertainty over the collagen question
I will keep looking at stuff in the meantime. Good that some of you are getting positive results from the Great Lakes supplements. Any improvements taking this in terms of curve reduction , scar reduction or narrowing reduction? Bayou or Paulo ?
Hahaha I've never been so confused in my life. I'm currently in active phase so I wouldn't dare touch collagen, but for those that are in active and still partaking, please let me know how it goes.
Fu** Peyronies Disease
Quote from: Paolo on October 24, 2021, 06:31:23 AM
Yep, can confirm the Great Lakes Collagen hydrolysate (Chock full of Amino's) improves erections, but also sleep too. The hydrolysate dissolves perfectly in warm water then just chug it.
12g morning, 12g evening.
Don't bother with the red can stuff, green can all the way.
Only been using for a few days but penis already 'seems' healthier.
Looking forward to updates :)
Paul.
I notice you took hydrolysate while the other guy took gelatin
I want to try this too after seeing your guys success but I'm not sure which one to pick
I took Verisol, 1 tablet, was OK the first day so I took 2 the next day and had diarrhea so I stopped until this subsided. Then my Great Lakes collagen (green container) showed up and I took a quarter of a teaspoon and built it over a period of days until I got diarrhea again which is anything over 1 flat teaspoon so I just keep it at that. Sucks that I can't get the full benefit out of it and take more. I just have a crap digestive system.
No change to peyronie's.
Hi there,
I think I will order some Glucosamine + MSM + Chondroitin supplements to see if it helps my joints because I have constant 'cracking' and stiffness, which is not very pleasant as you can probably imagine. I'm going to take the pills for about a month and see what happens, especially in terms of my Peyronies.
Also, I few months ago I was taking some 1000mg collagen with vitamin C supplements daily (for about 1-2 months) and honestly can't say it affected my Peyronies in any way. Although my joints felt a bit better, I think
Hi all
Sorry, just realised it's been a year since I started this thread.
So, just to update. I did start taking the Source Naturals Biocell Hyaluronic Acid Colagen tablets in the end. About 6 months ago
I've been taking them since, have had a couple of months taking another brand ( Now Foods) which are basically the same thing, but half the amounts, so 2 tablets instead of 1 dose
I just don't know if it has done anything, but I would say that over the last couple of years with treatments that I've done, the narrowing has pretty much gone. I can still feel the plaque/s inside, and I still have the dreaded curve, although this may have improved very slightly , maybe 5 degrees
I do traction probably 4 or 5 days a week at least ( using a Phalosan forte and ankle weights attached to and using a wooden spoon or hooking over a belt so that it just hangs there being pulled in the direction opposite the curve, a bit like restorex I imagine ) occasionally still VED, take 5mg cialis every day
I'm pretty happy with the way it is now tbh. I split up with my gf not long ago, and started dating again. After not feeling confident about my penis since peyronies and not dated anyone new, I started dating a new lady, and she has been delighted with the package that she received! I mean, she loved it. No comment by her on curvature, in fact I do think that a moderate curve can be beneficial in hitting the G spot. Anyway, I digress
I will probably keep taking the biocell for a bit longer, although the points about Chondroitin are noted. I might look for a version without this.
i am on week 4 of biocell collagen so far nothing to report
Interesting that someone on another thread reported success with Hirudoid cream, which is basically chondroitin sulfate