Peyronies Society Forums

Peyronies Disease TREATMENT Discussion Boards => Vacuum Erection Devices (VEDs) for Peyronie's Disease => Topic started by: Hawk on August 16, 2005, 07:55:48 AM

Title: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hawk on August 16, 2005, 07:55:48 AM
Any discussion on VED's, their use, results, recommendations, experiences, and protocols.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Forum on August 16, 2005, 11:18:27 AM
Hawkman, Administrator          Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:39 pm

First I want to make it clear I am not recommending any plan of action. I can barely figure out what I am doing next with my own dilemma. I also want to remind everyone of the old adage, "A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing" I definitely possess limited knowledge on this topic. I suspect even the so-called experts possess little knowledge on this topic.

With that in mind I want to present a few facts that are far removed from our situation and then dangerously extrapolate that to Peyronies Disease.

One of the major management problems of burn victims is contracture of scar tissue. Positional splints, elastic bandages, and stretching techniques are employed to literally prevent the drawing effects of scar tissue. These procedures are relatively successful. There are questions as to whether at a cellular level they stretch existing cells, making them thinner and weaker, or proliferate new cells, but one way or the other; the scar tissue area does increase. Stretching is successful.

With Peyronies Disease, our scarred area is not under tension most of the time. If you have ED, it is seldom under any tension. The plaque may be free to contract unchecked. It seems to form or draw to the reduced flacid size and we know the results when we get an erection. Why wouldn't reasonable regular stretching prevent contracture of the tissue even in the early acute phase of the disease? Burn patients must stretch every morning because tension has been off the area all night. It is not a morning stretch like most people do, but in depth, involved, slow, restoration stretching to bring them to where they were the day before or even beyond that to reach new flexibility.

There are probably more problems with this correlation than I can imagine, but here are a few I recognize. Burn victims are stretching scarred skin, which may not correlate to scarred tunica albuginea. If you are depending on VED engorgement to do the stretching, the stretching force needed might damage corpora cavernosal tissue. The fact that the Peyronies Disease scar tissue is usually very relaxed, might offset any gains that a practical amount of stretching could accomplish. Maybe small graduated weights could be used to keep a more constant stretch but then the delicate surrounding tunica albuginea tissue might tear before the scar tissue stretched, resulting in micro tears, bleeding, and more scar tissue.

Let's face it, Peyronies Disease plaque (scar tissue) is NOT skin scar tissue. For one thing, Peyronies Disease plaque calcifies so the comparison is no doubt very flawed. Nevertheless, I wonder if the question of stretching the plaque in some manner such as a VED, at some stage of the disease, is not still on the table.

I present this idea only because I want other people to share their ideas, share want they think worked, and what they think did not work. Share credible information you have run across. I for one need it.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: nick on August 24, 2005, 12:12:22 PM
I have been using ved for a couple months. I haven't really noticed any difference yet. It becomes engored and stays more full the next day. So it seems more straight. So for me the verdict is not in yet.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Joshua on August 24, 2005, 12:24:56 PM
Old man:
when and if you get a chance, I would love for you to post the VED therapy program you followed. This would be a great resource for many seeking to use the ved for Peyronies Disease therapy.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on August 25, 2005, 09:48:48 AM
Joshua:

OK, will take me a little while, but will be working on this in the next few days. It is rather simple.

One problem though, my regimen is based on a certain brand of VED and I don't want the forum to get the idea (lack the old one) that I am company rep, etc.

I will have to state the brand because it was the one that gave me the most success. What do you think about this?

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Hawk on August 25, 2005, 10:07:22 AM
Quote from: Old Man on August 25, 2005, 09:48:48 AM
One problem though, my regimen is based on a certain brand of VED and I don't want the forum to get the idea (like the old one) that I am company rep, etc.

I will have to state the brand because it was the one that gave me the most success. What do you think about this?

Old Man

Old Man, we all appreciate your concern but this is an honest "tell it like it is" forum. We want you to tell it like you see it.  We can not promise what every member will think, or that they will not vigerously debate the usefulness of the tecnique.  

We can promise they will not attack or accuse the messenger.  In fact I don't even think there is anyone on this forum that would be inclined to treat a fellow member that way.

We all look forward to hearing from you.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: nick on August 25, 2005, 10:20:18 AM
I agree with Hawk. Youre information, kindness and willingness to help others is amazing. Hell even if you were a rep, I'd buy your product. Have you ever tried to get info from these companies. They never have a clue about the product they are selling.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Michael on August 25, 2005, 05:16:26 PM
I'm still very new at this; I know the V must stand for vacuum... but I really have no clue as to what this is.  Any description or a link to somewhere that might describe these...contraptions? -- would be appreciated.  I may have missed this somewhere; if so, my appy-polly-loggys.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Larry H on August 25, 2005, 06:19:13 PM
Michael,

It's Vacuum Erection Device, and was designed for men who for whatever reason could not get or maintain an erection, such as ED from prostate surgery.

In recent years there has been success reported in using it to improve problems related to Peyronies Disease. Old Man is the fountain of knowledge on the use of this device, and I'm sure he will be getting back to the forum with his insight into it's use for Peyronies Disease.

Until then I thought I would give you a quick heads up.

My Best,

Larry H
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on August 25, 2005, 08:07:40 PM
OK Guys:

Just wanted to be sure that it was all right to state the brand name and other aspects of the VED. I suppose that I had become gun shy after all the crap that was thrown at me on the "other forum". BTW, it has now deteriorated so far down the toilet that there appears to be no redemption for it.

Will be getting my fact together in the next few days and will post the exact regimen that I followed for the 6 months that it took to get rid of the plaque formation and curve.

Another note: I now have acquired the newer model Soma Correct from Augusta Medical Systems. I have been asked by them to do a thorough test of it and give them my recommendations for correction of defects, in any, so that they might revise it accordingly. So far, my testing indicates that it is a viable unit to work with Peyronies Disease.  More on this unit later.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Joshua on August 25, 2005, 08:14:41 PM
Old Man:
I am looking forward to your post. I am going to make it a sticky for this category. It will remain a header for this topic, so give us all the details.
Thanks
Josh
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on August 25, 2005, 11:03:23 PM
Josh:

Have quite a few things to do in the next day or so, but will be putting the facts together and post them as soon as they are ready. Just hang in there and I will get it done soon.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: nick on August 26, 2005, 03:42:14 PM
I was wonder about the idea of infrared light and a VED. My thought is since the pump is clear plastic the light and warmth would penetrate. Hell even slather some thackers formula on before the pump. Does anyone think there would be any harm in that.  There are many times that I have wished I could heat up my junk while pumping. If the 2 by themselves could help what about together ?
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Hawk on August 26, 2005, 04:28:41 PM
I am far from an expert on any of these remedies but if we assume that infrared light and a VED have the potential to help, I would see no reason that they would have to be administered at the same instant.  For one thing, a VED creates a lower pressure around the penis than in the penis resulting in blood flowing to fill that vacuum.  Too much vacuum can actually draw little dots of blood to the surface (much like a hicky on your neck) If any change occurred, from using Thacker formula with a VED, it would be to Draw the Thacker formula out, not in. 

There are several conventional treatments that have the potential to do some good.  I think it would be a mistake to say that if we combined 3 of them at the exact same moment that "would really work"
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: nick on August 26, 2005, 05:57:03 PM
good point with the formula you're right I'm sure the pump would draw of the formula.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on August 28, 2005, 06:17:16 PM
UPDATE ON VED REGIMEN:

Due to the impending landfall of Hurricane Katrina, I will be delayed in getting the regimen in a format that I can present here is in intelligent manner.

If we lose power as usual with a hurricane, it might be quite a while before it is restored. Have a backup generator, but due to power surges from it, I do not boot up my computers with it running.

However, I will be getting it on here as soon as possible after the big blow is over.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: marti on August 28, 2005, 08:01:54 PM
Keep Safe, Old Man...it sounds really nasty!

Best,
Marti
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on August 28, 2005, 09:48:31 PM
Thanks Marti:

We have battened down the hatches for the night and turning in. The weather has deteriorated quite a bit since my last post.

It will be bad enough for us in Southwest Alabama, but New Orleans will be the place not to be this time. I have spent a lot time around there with the U.S. Navy Reserve and believe me I would not want to be there tonight and tomorrow.

Thanks again,

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Larry H on August 28, 2005, 10:29:58 PM
Bill,

Take care my friend, I'm thinking about you.

Larry
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: juma on September 05, 2005, 03:45:00 PM
whats the best lube to use after running out osbun's?
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: nick on September 06, 2005, 11:28:38 AM
KY it's water soluble
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: juma on September 06, 2005, 07:49:26 PM
gave it a first try yesterday with the VED.  When I got to the point where I thought it was becoming uncomfortable, it was not firm enough for sex (well maybe just enough).  So, after a few more pump up and down, I stopped.  I just figured this was about normal for starting and I would rest a day or two and try again...good move?  is this what I should expect?  also, I felt pulled out in my lower abdomen for the rest of the evening but ok the next day - normal?

juma
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on September 06, 2005, 11:16:25 PM
Note to JUMA:

You might also want to try the Wal Mart Equate brand of personal lubricant. It works just as well as KY Gel and/or the Osbon lubricant. It is water soluble too and cleans up nicely with no mess, etc.

I have used the Wal Mart brand for several years now. It costs $1.94 per tube here in my hometown.  This makes it cost about one half as much as KY, etc.


BTW, if you feel too much pull in the abdominal wall of your lower area, you might be using too much vacuum pressure too fast. Work slowly with the pumping and let the blood flow work for you.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: juma on September 07, 2005, 04:47:33 AM
ok old man.

tried to go slow and cautious but maybe not enough.

so its not unusual to not get a perfect woody the first time?

juma
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: lazarini on September 07, 2005, 07:51:28 AM
This is just my best wishes for Old Man.  I heard from him on yeasterday and for any that know him, I wanted to let you know that he told me that he is well.  My blessings and best wishes are with him as well as all who have struggled and are struggling throught this catastrophe.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Mountain Hiker Bob on September 07, 2005, 08:58:59 AM
Glad to hear Bill is doing okay.  That's rough in the Southeast.

I too use the Walmart brand, Equate, lubricant.  MUCHO cheaper and just as good, when I use the VED, my coveted Osbon.

My number one rule in VED use:  Easy Does It.

Mountain Hikin Bob
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on September 07, 2005, 08:40:38 PM
Note to Juma:
Yep, it is not unusual to not get an erection the first few times one uses the VED. It takes time, patience and using extreme caution in the amount of vacuum pressure one uses.

As Mountain Hikin Bob says below, go slow and easy, use plenty lubricant and never, but never over pump the pressure. If at any time you experience any discomfort, stop, and relax the pressure before proceeding further.

Caution is the watchword in using the VED. Believe me, I have been there and done that in the overpumping thing. Have had to stop the exercises and let the old tool heal before proceeding.

Take care and you will see results soon.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: juma on September 09, 2005, 04:39:33 PM
how do ya keep the VED from fogging up?  kind of annoying not being able to see what you are doing....

juma
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on September 09, 2005, 10:17:30 PM
JUMA:

This happens sometimes when the temperature of your penis is different from the cylinder, etc. What I did was to run hot water over the cylinder before using it and that seemed to reduce the amount of condensate inside the cylinder(s).

Or, if that does not reduce the fogging, try running cold water over the cylinder in the reverse cycle.

Just experiment with different temps of the cylinder(s). BTW, which VED are you using, the Osbon Esteem, the Soma Correct or another brand?

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: juma on September 10, 2005, 06:56:40 AM
OM, I would never use anything but an esteem after reading your many posts.  you were absolutely right about the control aspect.  I can see one of those electrics yanking the head right off on an overpump.  I bought two of them used for $50 each on ebay.  they hadn't even opened the lube so they didn't get much if any use.  A pass through the dishwasher and they are great (but don't tell my wife).

One side is slightly indented from an attack 20 years ago.  I'm hoping to stretch it back out over the next year or so.

juma
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: nick on September 19, 2005, 05:07:15 PM
I am having a "hinging" problem. I'm thinking about trying a product and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it. It's called Rejoyn support sleeve. It looks great. It appears to be a some what thick silicone to add as the name would suggest support. A sort of schlong sling, or c**k cast well you get the idea. 
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on September 19, 2005, 08:45:28 PM
Nick:
The item you are talking about does work for some guys who have a problem with penetrating. It does nothing more than provide support on the underside of the penis to help it stay sort of level or straight. It might help the hinging effect, but from my experience of using a similar product it did not work for me. Rejoyn also makes a mediocre VED but does not appear to be of a good medical quality. Some guys I have worked with have used them with somewhat of a success, etc.

The VED has been the "weapon of choice" for my impotency problem since the age of 55. Started using the VED after radical prostatectomy in 1995. Before that, I used a retainer ring of various sizes and strengths which worked very well. I had to develop as much erection as possible, then slide the retainer ring in place at the base of the penis. In most cases, it worked well.

Now, I use the VED exclusively for erections and it has served me well for the past 10 plus years. Again, I must state that caution is the watchword in using the VED for ED and Peyronies Disease therapy. The best rule of thumb in using the VED is if it hurts or causes discomfort, don't use it.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: nick on September 20, 2005, 01:32:05 PM
It seems like something that could be usefull as a sort of brace. If it weren't for her discomfort I would use damn duct tape and popsicle sticks :)   
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: mezz on September 23, 2005, 11:21:00 PM
Old Man,

It seems that the most easily purchased VED is the Osbon Erecaid.  What is your opinion on this model?  I'm thinking I'm about ready to start my next phase of treatment, which is going to take place over the next six months, and will include VED therapy combined with Pentox/Viagra/N02. 

I'm trying to keep costs down, so I'm looking for a VED that is going to be effective, but one that is readily available for not a whole lot of money.  I've looked for the Osbon Esteem that I've seen mentioned, but haven't come across one on Ebay. 

Any advice as far as the purchase of a VED?
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on September 28, 2005, 11:06:59 PM
Mezz:

Sorry that I missed your post regarding an Osbon Esteem manual model VED on EBay. You need to check there on a daily basis. Last Sunday afternoon I was browsing there and saw 9 VEDs listed. One was an Osbon Esteem manual shown as Buy Now for $95.00. It was listed as new in the box.  If it is still available, it should make for a good purchase.

The Osbon Erecaid name is applied to both models of the VED made originally by Mr. Geddings Osbon in Augusta GA. He had two models, the Erecaid Classic and the Erecaid Esteem. Both were/are available as battery powered models also. Timm Medical Division of Endocare Company in MN now has the production rights, etc.

You should keep looking on EBay for one. They do appear there quite often. Several guys that I have worked with bought their's there for quite a lot of savings. One said he bought two of them for around $50 each.

As you know, my personal experience has been with the Classic and the Esteem models of VEDs. I also have a Soma Correct unit that I am evaluating for the Augusta Medical Systems in GA. It is a very good unit, but like the new Osbon units they are quite pricey. But, as the old adage says, you get what you pay for. If bought from the company or their authorized distributor, they carry a better warranty than if bought used (which has none), etc. Any medical quality unit is a better unit that some of the "sex toy models" available as over the counter units.

Let me know if I have not answered your questions, etc. Will be glad to help in any way possible.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: bob on October 11, 2005, 04:09:55 PM
I have the "waisting" or "hourglass syndrome. After a long period in which my condition neither improved nor worsened, I noticed that the "waistline" of that hourglass seems to be getting narrower. Anybody out there experience the same? Ironically, I just postponed my followup visit to Dr. Mulhall in NYC - I rescheduled for Nov. 1.

Bob
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on October 11, 2005, 08:42:11 PM
Bob:

I too had the narrowing and/or hourglass effect for several years. At times it would go away only to return later. Overall, I would say that it came and left about 3 times over the years.

After my radical prostatectomy, it came back as well as a 45 degree downward and 45 degree curve to the right. Just about everything my uro and I tried came to no avail.

We decided to try a rather simple exercise routine with the VED. It worked, but rather slowly, taking about 6 months. The therapy was done twice a day for 2 months and then once a day for 4 months when the mess just faded away.

At present, I only have a very slight indication on the left side of the shaft that shows where the effect was located. I have regained my lost dimensions and sexual activity is no longer a problem. However, I do use the VED for erections due to total impotence as a result of the non-nerve sparing surgery. My prostate gland was so large that it was not possible to save the nerves.

The above is my observation only. It may or may not work for someone else.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: bob on October 12, 2005, 10:03:15 AM
Thanks - as always your advice is right on the mark! I was, in fact, going to insist on a VED prescription upon my return visit to Dr. Mulhall, and still intend to do so. I recently watched a video online for the Osbon model, although it wasn't easy to do because I have dialup at home. (There is a broadband line at work but such content would typically be blocked.)

Having read a number of things from you and others on this topic, should I ask for the Osbon Esteem model (which you use) or the SomaCorrect? Would the latter be easier to use because it is designed for Peyronies Disease?
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on October 12, 2005, 11:30:24 PM
Bob:
As you know, I have used the Osbon Esteem manual model for ED and Peyronies Disease for over 10 years and it has been the "weapon of choice" for both. I also have a SomaCorrect manual model that was furnished by the Augusta Medical Company for evaluation for them. Have been using it in conjunction with the Esteem for about 4 months. They both are of good medical quality and are durable units if handled properly and not abused. Some guys on the old BTC forum have reported of things breaking on the Esteem and the company not honoring the warranty. This was because they were either bought second hand or from a company not authorized to sell them etc. I have not had any mechanical problems with the Esteem unit. Only have had to buy replacements retainer rings for erections caused by normal wear and tear.

My opinion of both is about the same. Each unit is designed for a specific purpose and I will elaborate on each for you. The Esteem is primarily designed for ED. However, I have worked out a regimen of exercises under the supervision of my uro that has worked successfully for me to regain the lost dimensions and corrected the curve(s) that I had. It is a rather simple exercise program that only requires about 10 minutes or so each day after the initial phase of the regimen.  I think that the Esteem still carries a lifetime warranty on the main mechanical parts. They are available on several web sites as reduced prices.

The Soma Correct is primarily designed for Peyronies Disease and is a very good medical quality unit also. It has three different sized cylinders that are used in a 26 week course of exercises. A definite routine is established and a brochure with that regimen comes with the unit. It can also be used as an erection aid when you purchase the separate retainer rings from the company. It carries a good warranty when purchased from an authorized source. From my experience with it there has been no problems at all. It provides a good exercise for Peyronies Disease in that the different size cylinders places pressure at the required places on the penis to assist in eliminating the plaque/nodules, etc.

I really think that if one does not have an ED problem the Soma Correct would be the better purchase. If one has both ED and Peyronies Disease problems, the Esteem would be the better buy. I recommend the manual models of each since you can control the amount of vacuum applied more readily. A battery powered model could cause one to use too much pressure. Caution in the amount of vacuum used is the watchword in either model.

The above carries the usual disclaimer that I do not represent any company in sales nor promotion of VEDs. It is my own experience with the units after a radical prostatectomy over 10 years ago.

If there is anything further that I can help with, just let me know.

Sincerely, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: adam1951 on October 13, 2005, 04:24:11 PM
Dear Old Man,

Have you posted your regimen for VED treatment yet?  I was looking for it in this thread without success.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on October 13, 2005, 08:34:23 PM
adam1951.

Wrote you email off the forum at the email address listed in your profile, but it was returned undelivered stating the address was not correct. You can email me at the one shown in my profile and I know it works because I receive emails all the time to that address.

To answer your question about the VED regimen, no, I have not posted it on this forum. It was posted several times on the old forum, but it raised so much controversy that I just gave up on it came over to this forum. I never post there anymore.

Give me an eamil sometime and we can discuss the regimen more at that time. Sometimes my ISP refuses to accept some addresses when I know that they are right. I might have too many controls on my computer!

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: steven on October 15, 2005, 01:41:03 AM
Old Man,

I read somewhere that the mis -use of a Ved could cause numbness in the penis, is that true?, if so, what kind of misue would cause that.

Steven
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on October 15, 2005, 04:12:44 PM
Steven:

What is meant by mis-use of the VED is like just about like anything else that is abused. There are many ways that one can cause further injury/trauma to the penis by mis-use. I have stated over and over many times in my posts about VED usage that extreme caution should be exercised. I will give some specific examples of mis-use below.

1. Pumping up the penis with way too high vacuum pressure.
2. Holding this pressure for extended periods of time after pumping too high.
3. Using a retainer ring/rings while doing Peyronies Disease exercises. They should never ever be used in conjuntion with Peyronies Disease therapy. This causes restrictions of normal blood flow which is essential in Peyronies Disease therapy.
4. Using the retainer ring/rings and leaving them on beyond the recommended 30 minute time limit for sex. These rings act in the same manner that a tourniquet does when applied to any part of the body to control blood flow in an injury. So, leaving them on too long can and will cause injury to the erectile tissue and/or blood vessels.
5. Any violent action while using the VED can and will cause further injury to the tissue.
6. If the VED one is using has a vacuum gage on it, the pressure can be monitored, but the best rule of thumb is that one experiences pain or discomfort, something is not right, so stop and correct the problem before continuing with the exercise(s).

So, bottom line is, do not under any circumstances use too high a vacuum pressure and do not use any violent maneuver so to speak while using the VED. Used in moderation and in accordance with the instructions contained in the package when one is purchased will produce satisfactory results. I recommend using only medical quality VEDs and not those of the "sex toy" type.

Again, as I have stated many times before, the VED usually will work for most all guys. However, there are some cases where the symptoms have advanced to such a state that recovery may not come. I have seen only 1 or 2 cases since I have been counseling guys in using the VED that failed to at least respond to some degree.

Hope that the above helps, but if you have anything further, fire away and I will be glad to help.

Sincerely, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: steven on October 16, 2005, 02:43:44 AM
Old Man, THanks for the response...

Steven
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on October 16, 2005, 01:55:50 PM
Steven:

You are welcome anytime. We all need to work together to try for some relief from this horrible mess called Peyronies Disease.

In some respects, I could write a book about it and its havoc!

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: steven on October 17, 2005, 12:47:57 AM
Old Man,

You could certianly write a book, oddly enough, I have several of these odd diseases, the type that hit only 5% of population and I've belonged to  a  few of these internet sites that deal with unusual diseases over the last 5 years.  Take care Old Man, always appreciate your wisdom

Best,
Steven
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Joshua on October 18, 2005, 01:01:37 PM
Old Man:

I respect your knowledge with the ved more than anyone else I know. I have had a great run of luck with my condition. I can barely detect any plaque left. However, my concerns/issues now are the fact that I have about four or five very small indentions left from where the plague once was. You can't see them but you can feel them when I am "full". In your experiences have you seen the ved work well in filling the indentions in? In theory it would seem like a good therapy for such issues.
Thanks as always!
Joshua
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: BlackEyes on October 18, 2005, 03:57:56 PM
hey to everyone on the forum.  I'm not sure how old most ppl are here on the forum.  I am 19 and have had the condition for over 2years.

OldMan, I have the same question as Josua b/c i have no more detectable plaques and just indentations.

this is my first post and it has to do with traction devices...i saw on
http://www.proextender.com/peyronies.html...that traction devices have very good results..Has anyone used these? Do they actually work to any degree.  The website makes it sound too good to be true. Thanks

Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on October 18, 2005, 07:45:16 PM
Note to Joshua and blackeyes 19:

Yes, the VED will usually help fill in the indentations left when the plaque/nodules go away. As far as I can tell, the indentation remains because the tissue has not had time to "rebuild so to speak" after the hard stuff has gone away. Keeping the tissue flexed is necessary just like nocturnal erections in a normally healthy penis.

I do believe that continued use of the VED after getting rid of the other symptoms is necessary to maintain what you have acquired from the exercises. Several times in the past I have quit using the VED for several weeks only find that my tool  dropped off in dimensions. Regular exercise in my case, especially since radical prostatectomy left me totally impotent, is in order to keep the old tool engorged with blood to remain healthy. Using the VED for erections in my case is a must. I do on sometimes get somewhat of an erection during stimulation, but not enough for intercourse.

I would therefore recommend that you guys continue use of the VED as a maintenance program to help keep the tissue stretched out and healthy.

Special not to blackeyes 19: My advice to you about using a "stretching device" is just don't do it. There are many products out there that advertise enlargement of the penis with extenders, traction devices and several other forms of "toys". As far as my experience has been with guys that I have worked with, there were no good results, at least on a permanent basis. Some even developed serious problems with infection, etc.

If you there is anything further that I can help with, let me know.

Sincerely, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Will on October 30, 2005, 09:58:38 AM
I have been using the Soma-Correct religiously since May of 2005.  My problem is the distal end of the penis is restricted in receiving the engorgement it once obtained during erection.  Also the left side of the distal area of the penis indents, causing my penis to bend to the left.  When I began using the soma correct, which was doctor prescribed, it resulted in penile engorgement, but not total engorgement.  This occurred during every daily session, for 2-3 months.  I explained this to the prescribing physician, and he advised that I needed more blood in the penis, to give it more "torque," therby really stretching the scar.  To achieve this, he told me to either use viagra, cialis, levitra, or injectable tri-mix before my daily session with the soma correct, therefore achieving total engorgement and appropriately stretching the scar.  What is everyone's opinion of this therapy?  And, since my main problem is the indention in the upper left region of the shaft (this is the only area more narrow than the base), is it wise to just "pump" this area to concentrate on the problem area.  It is noted that I "pump" the entire penis as instructed in the soma correct manuel, but afterwards, will just pump this problem area of the mid shaft for a few minutes afterwards.  Would this extra "mid-shaft" pumping more likely help or hinder this problem area?  Thanks for your help....


Will
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Hawk on October 30, 2005, 06:54:20 PM
Will,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for contributing with your post.

I will let Old Man and others with more experience than I reply to you about the VED.  There is one area that I cannot remain silent on however..  All evidence from the timing, to the exact location of the plaque, to studies on papaverine and penile plaque all convince me my Peyronies Disease was caused by injections for ED.  Evidence suggests that beyond the impact of the needle prick is papaverine itself.  It is a component of both bimix and trimix and reportedly carries a higher incidence of penile plaque than some other injections such as Caverject.

Personally, I would try every ED option known to man before I tried injections.  If I tried injections I would try everything before I tried papaverine
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Joshua on October 30, 2005, 09:54:23 PM
Old Man:
Any special considerations when using the VED to improve indentions?
Thanks and best wishes.
Joshua
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on October 31, 2005, 03:13:08 PM
Will:
I have a Soma Corrrct VED that is currently being tested and evaluated for the Augusta Medical Systems. The recommended procedure for it's use is the 26 week regimen that comes with the unit. However, one can adapt different ways of using it even after doing the prescribed exercise for any given day.

After using the Soma for about 4 months now, I have learned a trick or two that can be applied by anyone when using the Soma. If you want to, you can just use all three cylinders and only pump enough pressure to get a good tight seal. Then, pull the entire assembly in and out on your penile shaft which is sort of like milking a cow's teat with a milking machine. Some pressure will naturally drop off, so keep adding enough to keep a good seal while doing the action. It takes a little practice, but after several tries it becomes second nature. What this does is applies varying amounts pressure and in turn forces more blood in and out of the affected area. I did this in addition to the regular exercises.

Along with the Soma Correct as well as the Osbon Esteem exercises that I use, I took large doses of vitamin E for several months. Currently, I am taking only 400 I.U.s a day at the dinner meal along with my regular senior citizen vitamins. If you do elect to use high E dosages, you must get your blood monitored for toxicity frequently to preclude a toxic build up.

Overall, using the Osbon Esteem manual VED, it took me about 6 months to eliminate a 45 degree downward and to the right cuver. A very slight indentation where the plaque was located remains, but causes no problem with erections produced with the Osbon Esteem VED.

If you have further questions, just let me know and I will endeavor to answer them for you.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on October 31, 2005, 03:17:04 PM
Joshua:

Read my reply to Will below. This procedure will work very well with both the Soma Correct and the Osbon Esteem. It could also work with any other VED provided that you have a way to control the pressure, etc.

The milking action worked best for me with the Osbon Esteem with only one cylinder because it allows one to get a good seal near the immediate area of the indentation. Working the varying degrees of pressure causes the blood to flow the same way and in turn helps with better flow especially after repeated use of the exercise.

Hope this helps, but if you have other questions, let me know.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Will on October 31, 2005, 05:52:56 PM
Old Man...thanks for the information...I will try this "milking procedure" beginning tonite.  Does it require more lube, such as lubing the entire cylinder?  Also, this Soma Lube gets pretty expensive... is there any other lube that I can buy in a regular store that will suffice, and also save me some money?  Should it be totally waterbased?  If you use something other than soma lube, what do you use?  Also...do you perform the regular session with the soma (from the pamplet) for the 10 pumps, and then afterward do the "milking procedure?"  Thank you so much for the help....


Will
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on October 31, 2005, 07:08:12 PM
Will:
Yes, do the milking exercises right after doing the Soma protocol. You should lube the entire length of the shaft liberally so that the cylinders will slip back and forth without friction. You have to lube the Soma cylinders well up into them to prevent the penis from "sticking" on the walls, etc. You will soon learn the right amount of lube after a few tries. Start off with a small amount and add lube until you feel comfortable with the right amount that lets you do the exercise without being too tight or rouch, etc. The cylinder must slip back and forth with difficulty while maintaining the vacuum pressure, etc.

I use a water based lube that is available at any WalMart or similar type store. It is an Equate labeled product (personal lubricaant) that comes in a new type container with a large flip top opening. It runs around $2.00 per tube and is just as good as the Soma or the Osbon lube. I have never used the company brands since I started using the VED in 1995.

Keep us up to date on how things are going for you. If you need further help, just let us know.

Sincerely, Old Man

Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: steven on November 01, 2005, 12:38:31 AM

Hi Old Man, Its Steven, I have written to you several times in the past, finally decided to use the VED to get rid of an 15 - 20 degree curve, indentation that won't go away, is this the correct Osboom device on this page, it seems I don't need a Rx and I was thinking of buying this one, is it the correct brand?  I couldn't find any on EBAY

http://www.stlmedical.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=EA11-30

Steven
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on November 02, 2005, 12:34:43 AM
Steven:
Yes, that is the right Osbon Esteem manual model and the one that I use. They can be found at a cheaper price at this address though:

www.erecaidpumps.com/

Don't think an RX is required at this site either, but be sure that you ask what warranty the units have before purchasing. Some guy have reported that some sites do not warranty their VEDs which are sold without an RX. You many not know, but the Osbon units are now made by the Timm Medical Division of the Endocare, Inc. company in Minnesota. They have a toll free number to call. You might want to tap into their site for info too.

It is:   www.timmmedical.com/

Again, be sure you ask about warranties before purchasing any VED. I am surprised that there are none of EBay. There is usually several listed there all the time.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: averagejoe on November 13, 2005, 11:49:09 AM
I'm 43 and have been recently diagnosed with BPH.  The doc will be doing an Indigo laser procedure this Thursday to open up the urethra especially near the bladder.

For years I've struggled with drippage following urination.  To compensate, I started doing a little palpitation method to chase the extra drops out.  This method ended in a little sequeeze with tissue paper at the head of my penis.  About 10-12 weeks ago I noticed a little (negative) sensitivity at the head during erection.  About 6 weeks ago I developed about a 10-15 degree rt-turn curvature, just at the head during erection.  I swear, I must have unknowingly done this to myself!  I can't feel any noticable plaque as described with other posts.

Doc is anti injections, but would prescribe TV if I wanted to try it.  He's more inclined to schedule me with the Augusta rep and try a VED.

I'm afraid to do nothing; I let the BPH go on for years.  I'm concerned things could get worse.  I'm looking for any advise or comments.  Am I whining about nothing?  Could a VED help with this kind of curve?
Thanks...

Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on November 13, 2005, 01:16:40 PM
averagejoe:
You are not whining about nothing. Letting Peyronies Disease go further without doing at least something to help out should be unheard of in the early stages. I developed it at an early age of 24 (now 76) and jumped right on to getting some attention for it. However, in those ancient years of medicine about Peyronies Disease nothing much could be done. My history is published somewhere on this forum under another thread if you care to go that far into reading about one's history, etc.

Now about using a VED. I suppose that I am considered the guru on this forum about using the VED for Peyronies Disease and ED sypmtoms. It has been the only "Treatment/therapy" that has done anything for my Peyronies Disease. Having had a radical prostatectomy, it too is the weapon of choice for erections due to a non-nerve sparing surgery. I truly and firmly believe in vacuum therapy for Peyronies Disease. Since you mentioned the Augusta rep, I am acquainted with the local rep in the Alabama Gulf Coast area and he has provided me with a Soma Correct manual model VED to evaluate and give feedback to the company about any recommendations that I might have about it and it use/operation. I have made several to the company and hope that they will be incorporated in an updated model soon.

Bottom line, in my opinion, based on what you state in your post, I would recommend that you get back with your urologist and at least explore the possibilities of what the Soma Correct or the Osbon Esteem VEDs could do for you in early therapy for your Peyronies Disease symptoms.

A number of guys that I have worked with have had as much as a 90 degree curve and has had great success with the vacuum therapy. VED therapy does not work for all, but it has worked for many. Would be glad to share with you any information that I have to assist you in any manner. My email address is available on this forum in my profile or on any post in the left margin.

Sincerely, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: bob on November 30, 2005, 10:45:19 AM
I have two cents to add on this topic. I went for what was supposed to be my last visit to my urologist in NYC last week. But... my blood pressure was too high and they couldn't do the test, so I'll have to return.

I did, however, ask for and receive a prescription for a V.E.D. Specifically, an Osbon battery powered unit, with a caveat from my doc: In spite of what seem to be positive experiences from many, he says VEDs are not an effective form of P.D. treatment.

I will proceed nonetheless. I'm not completely satisfied with the results of my verapamil injections. I will, of course, be chatting offline with Old Man on the merits of my prescribed unit, and how the treatment regimen he uses might be modified to fit its specifications.
Title: Re: Pro and Con of VEDs - Opinion
Post by: Hawk on November 30, 2005, 03:32:33 PM
First let me say I have and use a medical quality VED (Vacurect brand).  It clearly can stretch the penis by causing erections much more firm than many men would otherwise get.  I think VED's do have the potential to help many Peyronies Disease and ED patients but I don't think they are a panacea.  In fact, I think they have many limitations and some dangers.  This post is largely opinion, with some well known physiological facts thrown in.

Oxygenation: Dr. Mulhall clearly stated to me that "the VED does not do anything to oxygenate the penis" He stated a VED pulls only venous blood and not arterial blood into the penis.  Venous blood has already had the oxygen removed by other tissue and it is on its way to the lungs to be reoxygenated.  It also contains higher levels of other impurities to be removed by kidneys, liver, etc.  I am also concerned that it does not engorge the significant section of cavernosa that lies within the body.  Anyone that has a penis knows you can easily feel the erect section that extends behind the testicles.  This area remains totally deflated with a VED erection.  On the other hand, firm natural erections pump oxygen rich arterial blood to ALL of the cavernosa tissue. Natural erections also supply stretching.  See the Oxygen/collagen connection. 
https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,130.0.html

Possible Danger: If you take any of the numerous nutrients, herbs, or spices that thin the blood, then relatively light vacuum pressure can draw blood through the capillary wall.  This results in small pinpoint dots of red that are visible.  I have read that whole blood is a strong irritant that sets up scar tissue formation after many surgeries.  Could small amounts of blood drawn through the vessel walls do so in the penis?  Check a medical "pre-surgery" list for the items that thin blood.  They range from garlic to ginger, ginkgo, aspirin, to vitamin E, and about 50 other common items.  There is always the question of whether the stretching of acute Peyronies Disease tissue irritates the healing process further and causes more scare tissue.  This could be compared to scratching, or over stretching surface scar tissue (meaning scars on the skin surface) , which is know to increase scar production. 

If the VED stretches tissue, wouldn't it stretch the heathy tissue at least as much as the tougher scar tissue so the curve or indentation would still remain in the same proportions even if you did regain some size?  How can it stretch the scar tissue and not stretch the more yeilding normal tissue at the same time?  If you had a baloon with a thicker patch of baloon material on it and blew it up some more.  Wouldn't the normal baloon material stretch the most?  I have developed a bit of a lateral curve I never had since using the VED.  I have gained some length though.  I have wondered if the healthier side stretch a bit longer rather than the shorter side shrinking.

Finally, I want to be clear, I am not against VED's.  I also recognize that one of the most decent and helpful human beings I have ever called a friend is on this forum.  Old Man is knowledgeable on VED use and always ready to help.  I do think a VED is especially useful for those that cannot have normal erections.

I just want to remind everyone that we tend to over simplify things, when in fact there are hundreds of factors to consider.  The issues are confusing to medical staff that sincerely spend their lives looking for the answers.  We cannot assume that we can draw conclusions from one or two facts like: "it pulls in blood, blood is good, I am going for it."  Newcomers especially need to think through the issues before they try a specific treatment whether it is with a VED, some supplement, or conventional therapy.

That has been inside my head for sometime, I just had to get it out.  ;)

Best wishes to all.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Gator on December 02, 2005, 05:26:48 AM
My story.
I am 56 years old. I was first diagnosed with Peyronies Disease 18 months ago.
I had a 40 degree curve to the left with indentation and loss of length and girth.
I never had a problem getting or maintaining an erection.

I started using the Soma Correct six months after discovery.
I used it faithfully for 26 weeks.
Then I just used it sparingly for a while.
After 8 months of using the Soma, the left curvature was gone completely and the indentation also.
I now have a mild upward curvature.
I continue to use the devise and continue to see less and less of the upward bend.

I would like to know which of the three tubes I should be using or should I continue to rotate the three?

Thank you,
Gator
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions Note to Gator
Post by: Old Man on December 02, 2005, 08:54:20 PM
Gator:

Even though Hawk has given me the title of "knowledgable guru" on VEDs, I am not an expert. Someone has said that an expert is a former drip in a hurry! However, I have considerable experience using a VED and have worked with untold numbers of men in their use.

Now seriously, the Soma Correct is a very good medical quality VED. I have had one now for about 6 months that I am evaluating for the company that produces them. It has somewhat of a drawback over other models of VEDs, but it is still a high quality unit.

If you have gone through the 26 week protocol that is furnished with the unit and have seen considerable positive results, I would recommend that you go back through the 26 week routine, but maybe leave out the smaller A cylinder. Louis of Augusta Medical Systems and I work together on advising how to use the unit, and he says that not using the smaller cylinder could work well in the second phase of using the VED.

Based on the physical size of your penis, the smaller cylinder might be too small and not let the penis develop fuller. It is designed smaller for the "beginner user" so that the curve will be kept as straight as possible when doing the protocol, etc. After you have seen straightening and fuller erections caused by the unit, the smaller cylinder could very well do further damage as Hawk pointed out in his post below.

Again, I categorically state for all, the VED is not for all, but it will help some. Also, caution is the watchword in using the devices. Extreme caution must be used at all times. The old adage of no pain no gain simply does not compute in the use of a VED. If pain is experienced, stop using the device immediately and determine the cause before proceding with its use.

Let me know if you have further questions about the use of VEDs. Have been using one now for over 10 years for ED and Peyronies Disease. It has worked extremely well for me.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: soxfan on December 03, 2005, 05:56:00 PM
Hi Old Man,

Could you elaborate on why you think the Soma is inferior to other VEDS? Also, I have ordered a VED and would be thankful if you could provide the regimen with wich you had your success.


Thanks.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions Soma Correct VED
Post by: Old Man on December 04, 2005, 02:48:38 PM
soxfan:
I am sorry if I led you to think that the Soma is inferior to other brands. What I meant to say was that it has some features that require careful use to preclude a minor problem. As you probably know, it has three cylinders labeled A, B, and C with C being the larger one and getting smaller down to A. The drawback I was referring to is that the sizing inserts have some slight sharp edges on them and if one uses a higher vacuum pressure, they can and will cause some mild irritation the penile skin. Otherwise, they are superior to the Osbon Esteem when being used for Peyronies Disease alone. The Osbon Esteem works for both ED and Peyronies Disease when using the regimen you refer to in your post.

The Osbon Esteem manual model was the unit that was prescribed for me
after I had a radical prostatectomy in 1995. (The surgery left me practically impotent for all intents and purposes.) It works very well for both ED and Peyronies Disease. For Peyronies Disease I had to make up my own regimen of exercises. The Soma comes with a 26 week protocol that is very effective for Peyronies Disease. If you use the Soma Correct for ED, you must purchase separate retainer ring(s) to hold any resulting erection, etc.

Will be glad to provide the regimen that I use for the Osbon Esteem VED. Let me know which brand and model VED you purchased and will be able to work with you on the exercises.

If you so desire to work more privately, use my email address and we can work that way. Some folks like moe privacy when talking about their personal situations.

Sincerely, Old Man
Title: Re: Note to Bob relative use of VEDs
Post by: Old Man on January 05, 2006, 09:34:22 PM
Bob:

I chose to reply here to your post under the other topic in order to keep the subject matter in relation to the name.

Yes, you are right about the pros and cons relative the use of VEDs and other treatments for Peyronies Disease symptoms. There are more and more well known urologists now accepting the use of VEDs as a viable treatment for Peyronies Disease. They do however advise that extreme caution should be used when doing exercise therapy with VEDs. This is what I have stated all along about using a VED on this forum as well as the "old forum" which I won't name. Extreme caution is the watchword and careful manipulation of the device is required at all times. The VED has helped quite a number of guys and I just wish that they would post their success stories for others to see. It does not work for all, but it is worth trying before giving up on trying one.

The APDA forum has a segment called Ask the Doctor and in that topic there are several doctors who answer questions about any and all items related to Peyronies Disease, and other subjects. In the December answer to questions to the doctors, there is a good article that states using a VED is a good treatment for Peyronies Disease.

Visit that site and read the article which explains that doctors position about VED use. The address is www.peyroniesassociation.org/

In October 2005, I asked the question about VED usage and the doctor answered it in the December 2005 Ask the Doctor segment.

As you know, I have used a VED for over 10 years now and had great success in eliminating viturally all of my Peyronies Disease symptoms. Only have a very slight indentation on the left side of the shaft at present with no pain or other difficulty being experienced. It also provides necessary erections for sex since my radical prostatectomy left me totally impotent due to non nerve sparing surgery.

Hope this helps.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Glenn on January 13, 2006, 02:53:16 PM
As info,I started using the Soma Correct VED 12 weeks ago.  I have seen improvement in the curvature, length, and girth.  12 weeks ago when I started I had a 90 degree upward bend with a  considerable narrowing of the width from the curve outward.  It is supposed to be a 6 month therapy so I am onlyl half way through it but I am encouraged by the change.  Ihad the condition for 18 months before trying the VED.   I had tried the DMSO and other things but so far the only improvment I had seen is from the VED.  I did not exactly follow the directions.  I altered the treatment a little and would be glad to provided the details if anyone is interested.  If you are interested email me and I will be glad to give you more info.

Glenn
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Larry H on January 13, 2006, 03:34:06 PM
Glenn,

Would you give the percentage of improvement. What is your bend now and so on? Also, how much plaque did you have and where was it located? Did you have any problems with ED prior to using the VED?

I'm delighted to hear of your improvement.

Larry
Title: Re: Glenn - VED
Post by: Hawk on January 13, 2006, 09:41:05 PM
Glenn,

I think it contributes much more for an infinitely larger group of people to respond to questions on forum.  There are many that would never email you, or even post, but they would read your exchange with those that do.

I am curious if a 90 degree curve did not complicate the VED usage.  Like larry and others, I would like to know the specific degree of improvement in length, girth, bend, etc
Title: Re: Note to Hawk about the Soma Correct
Post by: Old Man on January 13, 2006, 10:43:06 PM
Hawk:

As you know, I have been doing some research testing of the Soma Correct for the Augusta Medical Systems company. The regional sales rep furnished me a demontration model to use as I see fit and give any feed back to him as well as recommendations for changes, updates, etc. Since Hurrican Katrina blew through, he has been recovering from the storm and I have not had much contact with him, but have been keeping in touch with the company rep in Augusta, GA.

Have been using the Soma now for 6 months on sort of a part time basis. I had no Peyronies Disease curvature/bends when I got the VED. So, there is no progress for me to report on changes, etc. However, I do see benefit from my continual use of the Soma to help maintain the progress that I made with the old Osbon Esteem manual model. Once the symtoms are gone, it has been my experience and some others that one should continue using the VED to keep the penis healthy such as received by nocturnal erections. A radical prostatectomy rendered me totally impotent due to non nerve sparing surgery and the VED has been my only means of getting and maintaining erections for sex.

The Soma is so designed to work with severe curves and bends with 3 cylinders that are used on an ascending size basis when one starts the protocol of 26 weeks as stated in the brochure that comes with the VED.
When starting therapy with the Soma, the penis has to be carefully placed in the cylinder(s) using lots of lubricant to provide a very slippery surface. Only enough vacuum is used to bring pressure to start blood flow into the penile chambers. As the penis curve(s) begin to relax so to speak, then more pressure can be applied to cause further stimulation of the plaque and/or curves. No retentions rings or device like that are used with the Soma for Peyronies Disease. It can be used for ED by purchasing the special break away rings recommended by Augusta Medical.

Again, as I always state when giving any advice about using a VED, extreme care should be exercised to prevent further damage. Overpumping any type of VED can and will cause further damage.

On Marti's APDA forum under the topic of ask the doctor, Dr. Levine answered my question about the use of VEDs for Peyronies Disease. The article explains in medical terms his position of VED usage. I highly recommend that all read this doctor's comments about VEDs.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Glenn on January 14, 2006, 01:31:32 PM
Well....  I spent an hour typing out a response to Hawk then apparently screwed up the posting of it and lost the message.  This will be a quicker response in case I screw it up. 

My life sort of went to hell in a  hand basket back in September of 2005.  Lost my job, had to relocate, start a new career (80 hours a week).  etc. 

I did not record the degree of bend, girth etc. like I would have if my life had not be in upheaval. 

I used the Soma Correct in the following manor.  I used it twice a day for the first 7 or 8 weeks.  I used the markings on the tube to guage how far I strecthed it each day.  Initially the 'S' on the tube was a goal but later I stretched it about an inch futher than the 'S'.    THE KEY IS TO FOLLOW OLD MAN'S Advice and not stretch it far enough to incure pain or discomfort.  That is why  you will need 30-45 minutes.   I gradually stretched it further.

I can not give you measurements like I wish I could.  I can say this.  The curvature was an acute 90-110 degrees.    Now it is  a more rounded curve and about 70-80 degrees.  Before the VED, the diameter from the begining of the curve to the glans, was about 50% as wide as pre-Peyronies Disease. Now it is closer to 75%.  There is much more mass in an erect state than before (and that comes from my wife as much as me). I  have only tried this for 3 months.  The instructions say it is a 6 month program.  I will post any future success, but I wanted to post this in case anyone wanted to get started on it.  It is a long term project.  I follow the recommended instrutions of 1 wk the small tube, 1 wk the medium tube, 1  wk the large tube, then repeat.

Hawk,

The 90-100% curve did not cause a problem with the VED. Like Old Man says you need plenty of lubicrant and it works OK.   

Glenn
Title: The right VED
Post by: bob on January 19, 2006, 03:17:16 PM
Notwithstanding Dr. Mulhall's negative opinion of the uses for a VED in treating Peyronie's Disease, he DID give me a prescription for one. It's on some form of self-mailing envelope coupon. It, however is not for the SomaCorrect... but for another (battery-powered) variety whose name escapes me.

The form is in my desk at home. I haven't ordered the unit yet. I'm not sure of the name...

My question: The Soma Correct seems to be designed specifically to address curvature, via multiple chambers, etc. A lot of men, on this site and others, are reporting good results with it. Should I insist on the SomaCorrect?
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Joshua on January 19, 2006, 06:59:04 PM
I have been reading Old Man's VED therapy suggestions for years now on the BTC and now thankfully here. When I scan the positive posts that are starting to pop up regarding the VED treatments it makes me happy that Old Man is finally vindicated. I have seen him take some heat for his views on the VED. So kudos to Old Man for staying the course. Please keep up the good work. ;D

Joshua
Title: Re: Soma Correct
Post by: Glenn on January 20, 2006, 11:02:29 AM

Bob,

When I was trying to decide about ordering one, I read up on them and then asked Old Man.  That was a few months ago but at that time the Soma Correct was the only one I saw, or that Old Man mentioned as being specifically for Peyronies Disease.  That is why chose it. I think you are right about the three chambers and the design being better aimed at the curvature.  If it was me I think I would insist on the Soma Corr.  I don't know the advantages of a prescription, if your insurance will pay for it etc., but you can buy one on line.   
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: jmd on January 21, 2006, 01:22:20 PM
I have a VED (Touch II) with the Soma Correct inserts.  I need a smaller sized tube is one available or can one be made?
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions Answers to several posts
Post by: Old Man on January 23, 2006, 11:41:08 AM
jmd: The Soma Correct should have been prescribed for you to use with Peyronies Disease. The Touch II is used primarily for ED, but can work for Peyronies Disease if you get all three cylinders that come with the Soma. You can purchase the cylinders separately from the manufacturer by emailing them at this address:
www.augustams.com

Just ask for a price quote from a sales rep and they will be glad to help you. The Touch II uses the same pump as the Soma. Some have reported that the Reach Medical Co. has stated that the Soma is no longer available, but that is not true. Augusta still makes and sells them. If you experience any difficulty with getting a quote, email this man who is in their PR dept: Lsvehla@augustams.com  His name is Louis and he will be glad to assist you in any way with getting the proper cylinders. As an after thought, you probably should email him first.


Joshua: Thanks for the kudos. Yes, I have taken quite a bit of heat because of my insistance that the VED was a viable therapy for Peyronies Disease. I have over 10 years experience now using one.  It has served me well since my non nerve sparing radical prostatectomy which left me totally impotent. Others that I have worked with after radicals have reported great success with the VED.


Bob: Since Dr. Mulhall prescribed a VED for you, don't let his negative comments deter you from following the exercise regimen to the letter. Patience is the watchword and one must keep a strict daily schedule of exercises with the VED. A word of caution again to any and all who wish to try the VED exercises: DO NOT USE TOO MUCH VACUUM PRESSURE. IF PAIN OR DISCOMFORT IS EXPERIENCED AT ANY TIME WHILE DOING PUMPING, RELEASE THE PRESSURE AND START OVER. IF ANY TRAUMA SUCH AS SWELLING OR EDEMA ANYWHERE ON THE PENIS OCCURS, STOP THE EXERCISES IMMEDIATELY. LET IT HEAL UP AND START OVER USING LESS VACUUM. There are some instances where the VED just will not work for Peyronies Disease, but it is worth the money, time and effort to try.

Now, I am sorry that I was not able to answer the preceding posts earlier, but experienced a problem with the reply link which is now fixed.

Sincerely, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: bob on January 23, 2006, 08:32:32 PM
OK is there any chance that the person from whom I will be ordering the unit will be able to subsititute the SomaCorrect? Or will that totally screw up my insurance eligiblity? In latter case the only course would be to request another RX from Dr. Mulhall.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions Insurance coverage
Post by: Old Man on January 24, 2006, 01:19:58 PM
Bob:
You did not say whether or not Dr. Mulhall prescribed a specific model or not. If he only prescribed a VED without brand name and nothing is said about that, then your insurance company should be contacted to ascertain from them if there would be a problem with getting a certain model.

I have stated several times about the Soma Correct being a good model to correct Peyronies Disease. It is being prescribed for ED so, if you want that particular brand, again ask the insurance company about coverage of it before purchasing it.

If I can help further, let me know.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: bob on January 24, 2006, 04:49:45 PM
The prescription was in the form of a self-mailing form to a specific distributor of medical devices. (It's in my desk at home...) There is a letter from the "account exec" on one side and a partly filled out form on the other. Pat from Dr. Mulhall's office wrote in the doctor's name, code for primary diagnosis (which I guess is Peyronies Disease), secondary (which I guess is ED) and other info. I believe the form specifies an Osbon device. There are boxes at the bottom to check for "manual" or "battery powered." Dr. M seemed to think I should go with the battery powered, but they left that part blank.

I will look up the name of the distributor when I get home and re-post. I also got a video as part of the package.

Bob
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions Name of Device
Post by: Old Man on January 24, 2006, 11:30:25 PM
Bob:

From my experience with the Osbon and Soma, the manual units work best for therapy, either for ED or Peyronies Disease. The battery units can be overpumped if one is not very careful in using the power switch. Have had several guys I work with report some physical problems with overpumping and causing swelling of the foreskin and shaft skin.

This is just my personal opinion and have not clinical proof, etc., just know what has worked best for us so far in therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease.

Let me now if there is anything further I can help with, etc.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Will on February 12, 2006, 11:31:57 AM
testing
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Mick on February 20, 2006, 08:59:08 PM
This is my first post.  When I joined the forum about 3 weeks ago, I received a very warm welcome from Hawk.  I told him that I was 74 yrs old, had been diagnosed with Peyronies Disease 14 yrs ago at age 60 and had done nothing about it until now.  It had stablaized rather rapidily and never improved or gotten worse.  I have an upward curve of only about 15%, with a 3/8 inch wide scar running from the base of the penis to the edge of the head; there is no pain.  Certainly, it is much milder than most of the other members' Peyronies Disease.  Also, I do not have ED.  Hawk referred me to Old Man, who has also been supportive and very helpful.  After having read everything under the VED topic and much on the other topics, I decided to give the Soma Correct a try.  I learned that it is available only through the manufacturer, Augusta Medical Supply (www.augustams.com), and requires a prescription, a blank copy of which can be found on their website under "brochures."   The price is $599.  For those on Medicare, they will approve $500 and pay 80% of that ($400).  As a retired Marine, I also have Tricare for Life, which will pay the other 20%, so I will be billed only $99.  The salesman, Mike Davis (800-827-8382), got the approval from the insurance company agents in a matter of hours.  I printed out the prescription, filled in my part, made an appointment with a uro, took it to the uro, who filled out his part, and I got him to fax it along with my insurance cards to Augusta.  They received it before I left the office.  I should be receiving the Soma Correct in a few days as I am just up the road in Tenn.  I Hope this info helps someone on the list.  I'll keep you posted on my progress.  Incidently, my uro thinks the idea is crazy, but after I related some of Old Man's history to him, he became curious and thought it was worth a try.  I think this forum is the greatest source of Peyronies Disease info, by the way.  
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Susan Wells on March 03, 2006, 11:41:10 PM
Dear Old Man,
     It is Susan, I have talked to you off line before, and because of you my husband did
get a VED and that has been the only real help he has gotten for his Peyronies Disease. All the other things tired did not help like the massive doses of Vit. E, Verapamil injections, herbal medicines. I did want him to try the regiment of exercises that you keep talking about. I know you do not want to post them on line because of a bad reaction you had form the BTC forum. I asked my husband to write to you to find out about the regiment, but he won't. The only way I will be able to get this information to him is if you post it. Any information I find that I think will be helpful, I just print out and give it to him. He will read things I give him, but he won't pursue anything on his own. This is a friendly forum so maybe you will feel confortable now to print out the regiment.
      What I wanted to know has anyone using this regiment been able to regain size and potency. My husband can get a weak erection which he cannot maintain without the VED. 
                                                             Thanks to all,
                                                              Susan
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions Exercise Regimen
Post by: Old Man on March 04, 2006, 12:23:50 AM
Susan:

Sorry that I have not seen your post earlier, but I have been busy today getting some computer problems straightened out. I am sorry that you cannot get your husband to post on this forum about his problem. However, I understand his reluctance to discuss openly his personal problems. Since you have taken the lead and asked for help, I will try my best to work with you on this.

The regimen that I use has worked well for quite a number of guys in the past and some are using it at the present. I usually develop a modified version of it for each individual based on personal data that each have provided. That is why I prefer to work with each person off the forum in order to preserve their privacy. I would only be able to post a somewhat generic version on the forum which would not provide a full service to the person, etc.

I would be glad to work with you to develop a version for your husband. I think that your address is still in my address book. Will email you to see if it is still the same one. Then I can get all the facts that is needed to work up the plan for you.

Hope that you can get him interested enough to stick with a routine of exercises to see if it will work out for him.

Sincerely, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Susan Wells on March 04, 2006, 11:21:22 AM
To Old Man,

     Thanks Old Man. If I don't hear from you, I will Email you.
                                                                         
                                                                        Susan
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: hopeful on March 05, 2006, 07:35:47 AM
[Did youget your VED? and is it helping you if so how?

Hopeful
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: hopeful on March 05, 2006, 07:58:07 AM
Susan,

How is the VEd helping your husband... is he able to maintain an erection? what about the Peyronies Disease?, where is his curve?- how long has he had it?....What about the Verapimil injections- who did these- and what was the outcome?- DId he consider IONTOPHORESIS?- www.physion.com  ?- I was considering- but have not seen enough evidence- if itwas really working it would be ALl over the forum. I have not purchased a VED yet..

I have had Peyronies Disease for abut 8 months- no more pain- have low testosterone - 300 - have 35% curve at tip  of penis- I think it is getting worse..I am only taking oral enzymes for now - . I am working with (3) other companies doing research- one is a company that does high frequency ultra sound- which they are curing prostrate cancer- 100%- and laproscopy- ablation- to remove tumors- see link http://www.misonix.com/medical/US/dApplications -

After speaking to them about Peyronies Disease, they feel that their ablation method may be a modality to try- and they are in the process as we speak- to get approval in London to test this on a cadaver with Peyronies Disease-  basically they are able to dissolve cancerous tumors, and suck them out-very similar to liposuction...

I am also working with another company- that has invented a needles syringe- no pain- no bruising-no bleeding - that has just finished a 2,000 patient trial on men with ED and diabetic that cannot take oral Viagra, Cealsis etc- with fantastic results- I am also working with another company that has created a super strong Enzyme creme- that has had fantastic results with DP & lymphodema - both similar to Peyronies Disease - same basic conditions in different parts of the body- I just got the creme- 2 days ago- and started applying it- I will also begin an oral enzyme protocol as well- I want to find a doctor to work with that can monitor the treatment ( before and after) I will be sending sample to the company with the needless syringe to see if this can be administered this way as well- I am also trying to see if it can be administered via IONTOPHORESIS too.

Still trying- still Hopeful- very hard on my wife- no sex- for almost 8 months-very difficult to penetrate- very embarrassing-afraid to try- am 58
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Susan Wells on March 05, 2006, 12:11:14 PM
Dear Hopeful,
     My Husband has had Peyronies Disease since December of 2000, I guess he started noticing it before that, but he was afraid to tell me because he thought the lumps were cancer of the penis. The heavy doses of Vit E he took over about 6 months had no effect. The Verapamil injection did reduce the lumps, they are now dents. He has tried Viagra and Chialis with no effect on his ED, he did get a whopping head ache with both. He does not have a curve. He has the hourglass configuration. He has two lumps at the base of the penis, on either side which gives the hourglass shape, he still has them, but they are more like dents. Before Peyronies Disease he was fully functioning. He has ED now, I am sure as a direct result of the Peyronies Disease. He has lost a lot of length and girth. On his own he can only get a weak erection which last seconds. This is not enough for sex. The VED pumps it up so we can have sex, he doesn't have to worry about getting or maintaining an erection on his own, it is not perfect, but better than no sex at all. It has been a very difficult road, especially because we don't really talk about it. If I find an article or information that I think is valuable I just hand it to him, and he might comment on it or he might not.
     His Uro. is at Loma Linda University Medical Center in California. I hope I answered all your questions. Best of Luck to you and your wife.

                                                                                Susan
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Mick on March 05, 2006, 02:37:36 PM
Hopeful:
     I assume your query in your reply # 87 was meant for me, inasmuch as I am the most recent member to mention acquiring a VED. The answer is that I have received it and have begun the regimen prescribed by Augusta.  Today is the ninth day.  I have not noticed any improvement, nor do I expect to for some time.  I have considered taking vitamin E (high gamma) but have, for the time being, anyway, decided against it because I have noticed that most of those in the forum who have reported improvement have stated that they were receiving multiple treatments and were unable to credit any one or combination with certainty for their successes.  Since I have never taken any action except to wait and see what would happen naturally, I will be able, if we are successful with the VED, to pinpoint the reason exactly.  It is highly unlikely that natural healing will have been the cause or any part of it because I have been stabilized for almost 14 years.  Hope this answers your question.
     Respy, Mick
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on March 05, 2006, 10:23:19 PM
Mick:

Read your earlier post and I am glad that you are approaching the Augusta protocol with a good attitude. You are right in that you don't expect to see major improvement almost immediately. The protocol is for 26 weeks or six months and the exercises will give results slowly. Since in most cases the malady came on slowly (except for an injury type) it will go away the same way.

I do think however, that you should take the high gamma vitamin E while doing the exercises. The vitamin, being an antioxidant, will help thin the blood somewhat and that will help with better blood flow  while doing the exercises with the Soma VED.

This has been my experience in my own case and in the cases of other guys who have used the Soma and the Osbon VEDs. Of course, you need to decide for yourself based on your own situation. Lately, the vitamin E has been given somewhat of a bad reputation of not helping with Peyronies Disease, but I have had the opposite occur. This is just my own opinion, but have observed it happening with other men too.

Sincerely, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Mick on March 05, 2006, 10:43:49 PM
Old Man:
     Thanks for your input.  As usual, I am always interested in your take.  I should point out that I am on plavix (75 m.g.) and aspirin (162 mg.), both daily, to thin my blood because of stenosis in my left carotid artery.  I wonder if  Vitamin E might be a problem in view of that.  What do you think?

Respy, Mick
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: hopeful on March 06, 2006, 07:52:21 AM
Thank you for answering me.. I forgot to ask his age- had I not looked today, I would have missed your post as on the new forum, I was not notified.. have to ask how this works...

As for the Viagra, CEalis, I have not tried,,, and I have to find a good URO - who is open top other modalities like what I discussed- the company that makes the needless syringe- like I stated had a very succdesful trial on 2000 men who have ED and diabetic- they will be releasing their results soon- so there may be hope as this type of injection is painless- no scarring- and it is locaized and not sytemic-

Hopeful
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: hopeful on March 06, 2006, 07:55:22 AM
Mick...

What is the Agusta protocol??? - Am not aware.. Please respond..

Hopeful
Title: Re: Mick - Blood thinners and VED
Post by: Hawk on March 06, 2006, 08:32:48 AM
Mick,

The following is my input based on a little knowledge and some personal experience that is NOT backed by any trained medical expertise.

You stated you are on plavix and aspirin and wondered about vitamin E.  Some people are effected more by vitamin E than others.  I had a nasty bleeding experience after one of my 3 prostate biopsies.  Vitamin E was almost certainly a contributor to that bleeding.  The bleeding stopped within 48 hours of stopping the vitamin E and started again (extremely unusual) 10 days after the procedure which was 24 hours after I resumed vitamin E.  Vitamin E is specifically not to be taken with some more potent blood thinners.

Personally, I would opt for some known natural blood thinners like garlic, ginger, vitamin E, ginko, rather than aspirin but you should discuss this with your doctor.

The bottom line is that too many blood thinners, natural or prescription along with a VED will draw blood through the capillary walls much like a hicky/passion mark.  Whole blood in the tissue has been identified as a contributor to scarring.  https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php?topic=151.0  One of many referrences in this link indicate that blood is an irritant that can cause; , irritation, scarring, and adhesions in many types of tissue. "(2) Meticulous control of bleeding = hemostasis (whole blood within the pelvis is highly irritating to the peritoneal lining and the inflammation that results can lead to adhesion formation)".

If at any time you see little rusty red pin point dots right under the surface of your skin, then either your blood thinners, or your vacuum are to high for your VED exercises.  Since you have a medical condition requiring blood thinners I would NOT reduce those without medical approval..
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Mick on March 06, 2006, 08:57:19 AM
Hopeful:

     The Augusta protocol is the 26 week schedule recommended by Augusta Medical Systems for use with their Soma Erect.  For example, during the first  two weeks, all 3 cylinders are used; during the 3rd and 4th, only the large and medium, and so forth through the 26 week schedule.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Mick on March 06, 2006, 09:05:09 AM
Hawk:
     Thanks for your input; I'll check with my GP.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on March 06, 2006, 03:52:48 PM
Mick:

I agree with Hawk on his input about too much aspirin daily. Since my bypass surgery in 2004, my cardiologist has me on 81 mg aspirin daily. That amount along with 400 I.U.s of regular vitamin E does not affect my heart problem as such. High gamma E should be used in place of regular E while using either the Soma Correct or Osbon VEDs. It provides more thinning action with less dosages. (Blood tests should be done about every few months to preclude any toxic buildup of E in the blood stream.)

However, you should check with you doctors, i.e. GP, uro, or caridologist if you have heart problems. The carotid artery problem can be quite a pain in the you know what if it is not taken care of properly. During my bypass surgery, they cleaned out mine and I have had no problem with them since. It even eliminated my headaches which had bothered my since childhood!

Again, word of caution to any and all that are using the VED for either ED or Peyronies Disease therapy, please do not over pump the pressure. As Hawk says, if you experience any symptoms of extreme redness, red pimples or a strawberry colored area, stop the VED immediately. Try to determine what caused the condition and if it is a result of too high a vacuum, reduce the time and/or the amount of pressure while using the VED.

One cannot be too careful in the use of the VED. It can and will in most cases help with ED and Peyronies Disease, but use it cautiously.

The above is furnished for the information of any and all who are using the VED. It is only my non medical opinions that are stated.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Ace on March 15, 2006, 02:51:34 PM
I'm wondering if anyone else has had an experience like this...

My Peyronies Disease doesn't involve any curvature, just an overall loss of length and girth. What I can feel of the plaque seems like a band at the base of the shaft. I've been taking vitamin E for about 6 months (with some inprovement) and just recently started taking 60mg of Ginko 2x per day. Yesterday I was using an adjustable cock ring, (I did a google search and found a similar one here:
http://www.sextoysex.com/sex/start/view.html?a=sextoyspro&pnum=DJ2000-01 )
which made my erection look a lot more like it used to (in terms of girth only, no increase in length). Later when I removed the cock ring, the top portion of my penis went flaccid more quickly than the bottom part where the plaque is. There was even a raised oblong area on the lower left where the plaque is most easily felt. Like the blood was still trapped in that part of the shaft even without the restriction of the cock ring. Within an hour it had returned to a more normal looking flaccid state. So, I'm wondering if the amount of blood trapped in the penis could have penetrated or gone beneath the plaque (I don't know enough about the physiology of plaques to know if that's even possible), and secondly if this might be something to repeat as a sort of therapy, working on the assumption that more blood in the area will be good for the plaque. I'm also curious if anyone else has used cock rings with Peyronies Disease and if they had a similar experience with detumescence, as well as the increase in girth during erection.
Title: RE: Ace / Trapped blood suppy after an Erection
Post by: Hawk on March 15, 2006, 06:26:59 PM
Ace,

I have not experienced anything really close to that but allow me to make a guess and a comment or two.  I suspect that the uneven return to a flaccid state was a result of greater elasticity in the end of the tunica as opposed to the base of the tunica, much like the difference between filling a balloon vs filling a sandwhich bag full of water.  Once the elasticity forced the blood from the end it just took movement and normal circulation to eventually do the same at the base.  During stages of this disease I have noticed that my flaccid state seemed to never get to the degree of flaccid like you expect after a plunge in to a cold swimming pool.  A lack of elasticity can limit a return to either a stretched or a retracted state.

As far as benefit or harm goes:  Trapped blood loses its oxygen pretty fast so using a ring for more than 20-30 minuets is probably a risk and not a benefit.  Also, if the ring or the resulting effect of the ring causes pain, discomfort, bruising, red dots, or red pinpoints, then I would not use it.
Title: Re: Note to Old Man
Post by: Larry H on March 20, 2006, 09:20:56 AM
Greetings Old Man:

Several days ago you made a post about the Soma Correct and a problem with the Fed's on marketing the device as a Peyronies Disease treatment. I can't find the post now so it must have been lost in the server problem.

In any case you stated that you did not know what the problem was with the FDA, or why they wouldn't let Augusta market the device as a Peyronies Disease treatment. I have a guess, and it's something that has bothered me a great deal. In their advertising for the Soma Correct they state that by following their treatment protocol "the plaque is broken up, absorbed by the body, and passed out of the body", or something to that effect. Now, I consider that to be an outrageous statement, because if it were true it would be a cure. In addition, if it were true why would Augusta be behind a study using urologists around the country to study the use of the VED with verapamil, there would be no need for the verapamil.

I brought this statement to the attention of Louis on the BTC a couple of years ago and he said that the statement was being looked at and would be removed, but that didn't happen. This one statement is the reason that I haven't tried the VED. I do believe the device has merit, and I know how dedicated you are to the use of VED's as a Peyronies Disease treatment, and I do value your advice and council. However, in my mind this casts a flavor of snake oil over the device and the company that makes it. Again, I think the device has merit, but it appears that someone made a stupid marketing decision.

I would like to see a statement from Augusta addressing this issue before I invest several hundred dollars in a VED. Perhaps you could pass this on to the Augusta folks and ask them to take a few minutes to respond.

Thanks,

Larry
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Mick on March 20, 2006, 08:24:37 PM
Larry:

I'm somewhat perplexed by your saying that the Feds will not o.k. the marketing of the Soma Correct for Peyronies Disease.  I contacted Augusta about a month ago and  I was instructed to have my uro fill out their prescription (the form is found on their web site) and be sure to have him state that the diagnosis was Peyronies Disease.  I was told that this was necessary for Medicare to approve payment.  They also contacted my secondary insurance, Tricare for Life, another federal govt. agency, who also approved.  Medicare allowed $400 of the $500 price and paid $300.  Tricare paid the remainder of the approved amount ($100) and I paid the remaining $100.  They shipped the product and I have been using it for 24 days now.  I'm doing quite well  too, and will be reporting monthly on my progress beginning on March 27.

Respy, Mick
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on March 20, 2006, 08:57:35 PM
Larry H:

I have contacted Louis at Augusta Medical with regard to the withdrawal of FDA approval of their Soma Correct VED for Peyronies Disease therapy. He said something to the effect that the company was working on getting it re-approved, but did not state what the underlying problem with FDA was. He said that he would give me some details as soon as they were worked out. However, have not heard from him lately. Their regional sales rep who provided me with the demo model of the Soma lives in New Orleans and has been under quite a bit of stress due to his losses during hurricane Katrina.

Maybe I will hear something soon about the Soma Correct. In the meantime, it can be marketed as an aid for correction of ED. Since it requires an RX to acquire one, the doctor prescribing it must have confidence in it or he/she would probably not issue the RX.

As you stated, I do have the utmost confidence that if used properly that the VED will work or most cases of Peyronies Disease. I know for sure that it will work for ED as I have been using it for that now almost 11 years since prostate cancer surgery. Again, I state categorically that it does not work for all cases, but will for most. If only the guys that have had success with it would post their results, we would see the good results.

Good luck to you and let me know if you do decide to use one. Would like to track your success too.

Regards, Bill
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on March 20, 2006, 09:04:19 PM
MicK:

What we are talking about when we say that the Feds will not approve the Soma Correct is this: FDA is the organization that has to approve its use as a medically qualified product. It was given that approval early on, but due to something that happened (I don't know what) the approval was withdrawn.

That does not affect what other governmental agencies do or not do with regard to insurance purposes. Each agency has its own policies and procedures to follow. So, your getting approval for payment of the Soma has nothing to do with its approval as an aid for Peyronies Disease therapy. It can be marketed as an aid for Erectile Dysfunction.

It is all very confusing to say the least, but in your case you were able to obtain the Soma at very little cost to you. In my case, being on Medicare and having my Federal Retired Employees health insurance, mine cost me nothing. I also have Tricare, but to date none of my medical expenses has been paid by that agency. The Soma VED that I have was a demo model given to me for evaluation for the Augusta company.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Rzz on March 21, 2006, 04:23:46 AM
Old Man,

How are you friend? Hope all is well with you, the family and life in general. Hope that Grandson of yours is getting closer to the PGA Tour.

Anyway, we've talked about this before, but I was hoping you'd touch on it again. I had asked you before if the VED could help someone who was having erection problems caused by venous leakage. You said it could, but I'm having problems understanding how the VED could help this situation. Could you briefly go over that again. Thanks,        Rzz
Title: Re: Reply to "Old Man"
Post by: Larry H on March 21, 2006, 09:52:32 AM
Bill,

Thanks for the quick reply.

I can understand that anyone living in the gulf coast area is living in a world of stress right now. I just traveled through your lovely city and on down and back I-10 for a months stay in San Antonio, and saw first hand the distruction.

Feel free to pass on my post to you, to the Augusta people as I would really like to hear an explanation of, what I consider to be, their over the top claims. It's my belief that Augusta is a good solid company that just allowed someone in marketing to make a stupid claim. We have to deal with too much of that stuff as we fight this mess, and we certainly don't want to have to put up with it from company's who are legitimate and can offer help.

Let me know if you hear anything from them on this issue either here or by PM. I've got a doctors appointment on the 30th. and I'm going to ask for an Rx.

Thanks My Friend,

Larry

PS to Mick:

I think Old Man answered your question to me so I won't follow-up unless you have additional questions.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on March 21, 2006, 06:31:56 PM
Larry H.
Wow, a month on the road! I am getting too old for junkets like that.
Wish I had known you were traveling in this area, maybe we could have had lunch or dinner. We could have shared things in person rather than on the old puta.

Yes, I will be passing on to Augusta the concern you have about the Soma. Have no earthly idea why someone in marketing and/or sales dept. did not catch what was happening and did their homework first.

Their regiona sales rep lives in NOLA as I said and he has been under quite a bit of duress lately. Have not talked to him since the Hurricane Katrina wiped him out there.

Will be getting back to you as soon as I find out something.

Regards, Old Man Bill
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on March 21, 2006, 06:47:25 PM
RZZ:

Glad to hear that you have finished up the lengthy project and will have some time to surf the forum again. Hope that you are able to get the most out of the project and it goes well for you.

Now, about the VED helping with erections problems. Yes, it can and will eliminate most problems associated with ED, especially one with venous leakage. I have had that problem since about the age of 55. In the early days, I simply just used what guys call a "cockring" but with some caution. Those I used then were simply nothing more than an "O" ring type, but they were hard to remove once the sexual activity was completed, etc.

So, when my prostate cancer surgery left me totally impotent due to non nerve sparing surgery, my uro prescribed the Osbon Classic VED. This one has two pieces, the cylinder and the pump. When I registered it with the old Osbon company, they offered me an Esteem at very little cost just to get it on the market, so to speak. It worked very well and I am still using both models as maintenance, etc.

Venous leakage occurs when the tissue in the corpus chambers no longer are able to hold the blood in when erection occurs due to sexual stimulation by whatever means. The VED when used properly and with just enough vacuum pressure to produce a full erection can overcome that problem. When one achieves an erection using the VED, the retainer ring(s) are slid off the end of the cyinder that is pressed up tight aginst the body onto the penis. It takes a bit of practice to determine whether one or two rings are required to hold up the erection long enough for sexual intercourse. There are usually several rings that come with the VEDs to allow for variation of the pressure, etc.

This all sounds complicated to some degree, but with a little practice a good erection can be achieved for sex. The only drawback is that you have to work up the erection with the pump which cuts down on the spontaneous effect of foreplay, etc. Another caution is that one must remove the retainer after about 30 minute from the time it is applied. The retainer simply acts as a tourniquet like in applying pressure in a serious bleeding open wound, etc. Those must be removed after 30 minutes also in order that the tissue is given a fresh supply of blood.

Hope this is not too lengthy, but you know me, takes a mouthful of words to say what I mean! Also, it might explain it better for other guys who have the venous leakage problem too.

Let me know if you have further questions.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Angus on March 23, 2006, 07:21:19 PM
  I have been talking to Old Man privately and he urged me to post these methods and results. After years of different treatments that did not work, I have settled on VED therapy for Peyronies Disease with positive results. The method I use is a hybrid, being a combination of the general graduated tube sizes and the general Peyronies Disease therapy guidelines outlined by Old Man in many posts over the years.
  I am using 3 home made VED's of differing tube sizes (1 1/2, 1 3/4 and 2 inch sizes). They are made of clear acrylic tube, clear vinyl tube and high quality PVC caps. Vacuum is produced by a bulb type hand pump with a vacuum release valve. I use a commercially made VED vacuum seal ring for the entry end of the largest tube. The openings of the smaller tubes require no flex seal ring. The warnings of over-pumping prompted me to purchase and install vacuum guages on each tube. Each 1 1/2 inch guage shows vacuum in inches, or -Hg, on the dial, and the guages are very accurate. The guages enable me to know when I'm approaching the maximum -Hg inches of vacuum before any pain, which for me is anything over -6 Hg (inches) of vacuum. I feel that knowing the exact Hg inches of vacuum via the guage provides a safer way to use them, and I can stop pumping at -4 or -5 Hg inches of vacuum before the onset of any problems. -5 Hg of vacuum is about optimum for producing an erection... higher vacuum readings are uncomfortable for me and produce no visible benefit to the erection. I would say that this helps to support the danger warnings of overpumping, and when it comes to vacuum producing an erection, less is more. At present I am searching for a small vacuum release safety valve that could be set to release the vacuum at a pre-set level (-6 Hg inches of vacuum) which would make overpumping almost impossible. I use the VED's only for Peyronies Disease therapy because I have no ED. I took care making these and I feel they are very high quality and have caused me no problems; I use these with great caution and attention, and the use of them with Old Mans guidelines has led to an improvement of my curve which has gone from its worst of 45 degrees to about 10 degrees. The 45 degree curve had started to relax (resolve) on its own a bit before beginning VED therapy, but most of the curve improvement has taken place after VED therapy was started about a year and a half ago. 
   The main purpose of my post is to report positive, visible results from VED therapy for Peyronies Disease, but I thought it would be good to say what VED's I am using. I am convinced that VED therapy for Peyronies Disease needs more research and support. Making ones own VED's may not be for everybody, but for me it was a viable and less expensive way to start treatment.
Title: Re: Angus / Self-made VEDs
Post by: Hawk on March 23, 2006, 09:20:42 PM
Angus,

It would be difficult to express how happy I am that you started posting after 6 months on the forum.  We all appreciate the support that gives the forum.  THANKS!

In addition to my above statement, this is one of the most interesting posts I have ever read on any forum.  It is interesting both for the results and the fact that you designed a VED. 

Questions:
1. Do you have a digital camera or a picture you could scan to post a photo.  I could walk you through  how to post it (pretty easy).

2. How much would you say you have in materials and how many hours of labor per VED?

3. How accessible are the components?

Clearly vacuum is vacuum.  Your VED sounds better than many on the market.  While there is a chance there could be a patent protection on some component that might prevent you from opening a company, no one can stop you from building anything if it is not for personal gain. (in money, not inches  :D  )
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Angus on March 24, 2006, 01:54:39 PM


     Hawk,

     Thanks... to you, other admins and everyone who helped to provide a top-notch forum for all of us.
     In answer to your questions, yes I can produce digital images. On materials, I haven't put it to the calculator, but I would estimate that I have about $25 to $30 in costs for each one.The costly single items were the thread mount vacuum gauges at about $15 each; they are internet order items. The vinyl tubing can be found at most hardware chain stores and pool supply houses. The clear acrylic tubing is an internet purchase since it is a specialty item in raw uncut lengths. The end caps are PVC fittings that can be found at hardware stores. The bulb type vacuum pump with release valve was gleaned from an inexpensive penis pump in the novelty category from a local store. Sealing the units different parts involved silicone sealer, epoxy and marine sealant. On component accessability, some items can be found locally but some must be mail or internet ordered, but all can be purchased without having to be a wholesaler or possess a tax number. I would suppose that the gauges and acrylic tubing could be found in a large metro city that had tool and equipment retail outlet stores. On hours of labor involved I would estimate several hours per unit because of the initial "R & D" stages of seal modification trial and error and finding sealants that I liked. If I made another one now, it could be done in a couple of hours because I know what materials to use. All in all, designing and making them was sometimes frustrating but the time spent I feel was rewarding. Thus far, none of the parts or components have failed or given any problems.
   
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions; Progress report
Post by: Mick on March 25, 2006, 01:07:24 PM
     Today marks the first month anniversary of my beginning using the Soma Correct.  I thought this would be a good time to give a progress report.  I have followed the Augusta Protocol to the letter, and with one small glitch, things have gone pretty smoothly.  The problem was that from about the 10th to the 20th day I experienced a slight pain similar to the one I had before my Peyronies Disease stabilized 14 years ago.  It usually occured about 15 minutes after completing the exercise and lasted about 15 to 30 minutes, but the last time it lasted 16 hours.  I believe that it was caused by overpumping.  Accordingly, I began taking it easier and have had no further trouble.  I guess I've got the hang of it now.
     I think the best way to report my progress is to list comparitive values for 5 areas I am monitoring, listing the values before I began and the values as of now:

                     Feb. 25                            Mar. 25

Length flaccid            4"                                   4 1/4"
Length erect         4 1/2"                                  4 7/8"
Girth erect                 5"                                  5 1/2"
Angle               15 degrees dorsal                5 degrees dorsal
Plaque              3/8" wide strip from          no observeable change
                       base of shaft to base
                       of glans

     I had noticed the decrease in angle and the increase in girth about a week ago but thought it might be my imagination; however, my wife confirmed my own observations at that time.  The length changes were not so noticeable.  The plaque is difficult to measure; although the length and width seem to be the same, I am uncertain as to the  depth though.  Needless to say, I am quite pleased with the results; I feel the apparatus has already paid for itself. 

     I have never received any other treatment in the 14 years I have had Peyronies Disease, and even now am not taking anything, not even Vitamin E, so I can be very sure that any progress would be solely attributable to the Soma Correct and my "coaches," Old Man and Hawk.  Thanks, guys.

     I intend to give further progress reports on the 25th of each of the next 5 months (through August) and perhaps thereafter, if warranted.  I hope this report will be of some assistance to those of you who might be considering VED's.  The reason that I'm using the Soma rather than an Osbon product is that I do not have ED.

                                      Respy, Mick

   
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Chuck Frasher on March 27, 2006, 04:06:48 AM
 That is remarkable! ;D
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: hopeful on March 27, 2006, 08:38:09 AM
Angus, Hawk,

anyone else using this site- has anyone heard of this company or is anyone using this protocol???- It seems very intersting- especially if the plaque is being reduced by drug or enzyme treatment- please let me know-

Please see  http://www.androline.com/inglese/h-penisbuilder.htm
Hopeful

     
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: hopeful on March 27, 2006, 08:44:25 AM
[Hi Angus,

Great job- would love to connect with you- when you say old man- is that Doctor Hearzy- and using his enzyme protocol with Neprinol- I spoke with the enzyme company owner that formulated their product- it is supposed to be of the highest quality?- If so he seems to be on track... in the meantine- I have not purchased a VED- too expensive for Somma $500- and am looking at others- I did find this.. on the internet- perhaps- if you can find the supplier of these tubes- it will help.. let me know..

See link-  http://www.stockroom.com/pumps.htm
Hopeful
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on March 27, 2006, 03:27:53 PM
hopeful:

Angus is referring to me, the Old Man, who posts here as a senior member. He is referring to conversations we had through the PM system relative the use of VEDs for therapy with Peyronies Disease symptoms.

Most of my posts are relegated to the VED and other devices topic, but I post on the others as well. I used the name of Old Man on the old BTC forum until it got so rotten with imposters, which also using the name of Old Man, to post bogus items, etc.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: zigwyth on March 27, 2006, 04:30:45 PM
Old Man, I have sent you a private email as you have requested for info on a suggested regimen and any other pertinent info. I am new to this condition and this forum seems to have alot more intelligent and caring individuals as opposed to another site I was on. Thank you
zigwyth2000@yahoo.com
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: soxfan on March 27, 2006, 04:46:12 PM
Is it possible to purchase a soma correct withouth an RX? My doc is unwilling to write me one.

cheers.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on March 27, 2006, 05:42:35 PM
Soxfan:

You might want to contact Augusta Medical Systems by phone and ask for Louis. He and I have been emailing about the Soma Correct and I know that he would be able to give you the straight facts about obtaining the Soma.

Another approach would be to ask another doctor, maybe your GP, to prescribe it for you. Since it is considered a medical quality VED, the RX is required as far as I know. If it were sold over the counter, it might be obtainable without an RX.

Hope this helps.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Angus on March 27, 2006, 08:10:43 PM
Quote from: hopeful on March 27, 2006, 08:38:09 AM
Angus, Hawk,

anyone else using this site- has anyone heard of this company or is anyone using this protocol???- It seems very intersting- especially if the plaque is being reduced by drug or enzyme treatment- please let me know-

Please see  http://www.androline.com/inglese/h-penisbuilder.htm
Hopeful

     

     Hopeful, I looked at that website and remembered that there was a traction type device mentioned on one of the old message boards, except it didn't use a vacuum tube. I haven't read on any of the boards where someone has tried one of these devices; if someone had, I simply missed the post. Personally, I would question the integrity of the mechanics of such a device that physically pulls by mechanical manipulation and the negative results if the device were to fail to operate as advertised. Speaking for myself, I am staying with conventional VED use because of its relative safety and results shown over time. I am certainly not an expert on the subject, but I recommend caution and patience as you read about traction devices such as this.
     I checked the website of your other post that has the VED tubes (stockroom.com). I found it interesting that they have tubes down to 1 1/2 inch ID diameter; the configuration of a seal ring isn't mentioned. I also found it interesting to see that they market a hand pump for these that has a vacuum gauge installed. Due to the nature of the website I would be cautious about considering them. The hand pump with gauge appears to have a nylon snap fitting and the tubes appear to have the same type fitting, so using the hand pump with other manufacturers or home made tubes would be impossible without modification and removal of the snap fitting. I would say at this point that we need to continue to read the posts of those with knowledge of VED use for Peyronies Disease therapy; the safety and potential for injury would certainly stop me from trying any traction device. VED vacuum therapy for Peyronies Disease I feel is very safe when safety guidelines are used; I don't feel that mechanical traction is necessary to this therapy at this point, and indeed my be very unsafe.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on March 27, 2006, 09:59:23 PM
Note to all:

I visited the site on the vacuum plus traction device. This is somewhat like the Fastsize traction device mentioned on the old BTC forum many times by a guy who claimed success with restoring lost dimensions as well as relieving the hourglass and plaque symptoms.

Agree with Angus' theory that it could possibly lead to more trauma instead of helping. However, if used carefully it might have some merit. Personally, I would never use a device like that, but that is my humble opinion based on my past success with a more conventional VED.

There are more and more VED devices coming to the market, possibly based on them becoming known by more guys searching for relief from Peyronies Disease. So we all should be aware of the danger of using a device that could cause more trauma. In other words, let the buyer beware.

If anyone comes up with better information on this device, please post your comments here for all to see.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: zigwyth on March 28, 2006, 10:32:15 AM
Old Man thanks for replying to my email. I have been looking for your suggested regimen, if  and  when I purchase a VED. I understand there are certain milking techniques you have described. Have been searching past threads for any of this.Also, Angus I work in production equipment maintenance and can easily get all supplies through McMaster-Carr or Grainger supplies for a possible homemade VED.With administrator's permission, are you still considering a Digital pic posted here with step-by step instructional for some of us that may wish to go this route?Otherwise, I would appreciate a personal email.
Thanks-Zigwyth
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on March 28, 2006, 11:09:04 AM
Zig:

Answered your email this a.m. Look forward to working with you when you decide which way you are going with the VED, etc. When you decide if you are building one or buying one, let me know and we can go from there.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: zigwyth on March 29, 2006, 08:28:57 AM
Thanks Old Man for continuing to reply. I am still contemplating what to do. I understand sometimes you can find the Osbon Esteem and others on Ebay occasionally. Am leary about making my own although the thought is intriguing. I work on High-end CNC machining equipment everyday and know I can fabricate something. I just don't know enough about the VED's yet. Type of seals, tubing sizes,materials,etc. Angus, any more thought to posting pics, parts list of your homemade device?
Thanks
Title: Re:Zigwyth
Post by: Hawk on March 29, 2006, 08:40:00 AM
Zig,

Angus has already contacted me and he is working on an informational post on what he did.  He plans to attach some pictures of the device he made for his own personal use, materials etc.  It may take him a little time to get a series of photos and put it all together. 
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on March 29, 2006, 12:01:18 PM
zig and Hawk:

A guy that I worked with in Hawaii made his own VED. He is a mechanic with an airline there and has access to all sorts of machine equipment. He gathered up the necessary parts and made it. He did not give me any photos of it, so I don't have any idea what it looked like, but he stated that he had great success after using it. He used the regimen that I used with the Osbon VED.

There is absolutely no reason why anyone with a mechanical background and is good with tools cannot make one. There are only so many parts to them. The size of the cylinder can be whatever fits the individual. The vacuum source can be anything from a siimple vacuum pump used to test spark advance on cars to one used for testing anything that uses a vacuum negative pressure. Hand held units would be considered the safest so that the vacuum amount can be controlled more easily, etc.

So bottom line, they can be homebuilt and work just as good as the bought devices. The retainer rings can be bought from the companies that sell the medical quality VEDs.

Hope that the above helps anyone with the knowledge and ability to make their own VED.

Sincerely, Old Man
Title: Home crafted VED's
Post by: Angus on April 01, 2006, 11:31:02 PM
    Attached are 4 images of 2 VED's that I have made. This is simply an informative post to share what I have done and the results; I cannot make recommendations on a use or regimen for treatment... that is beyond my scope. I use a regimen that I came up with myself but it is a sort of hybrid using safe guidelines suggested by Old Man and the graduated cylinder sizes used by a commercial system. I have positive results for my Peyronies Disease symptoms using the ones that I made, but details of those would be beyond the scope of this post. These are home made devices and do not have the slick appearance of commercially made ones... I made changes to them as I went along and the appearance sometimes reflects that. I do feel that they are safe devices, as safe as any commercially made ones, and more safe by far than the sex toy variety of VED's. The safety factor I believe is increased on mine because of the addition of vacuum gauges that show the actual inches of vacuum (HG) in 1 inch increments so a target in inches -HG vacuum can be reached and maintained without overpumping by trial and error.
   VED1.jpg is actually the 2nd unit I made. Cylinder material is clear, rigid acrylic tubing, size 2" outside diameter (OD) with an inside diameter (ID) of 1 3/4". The cylinder walls are 1/8" thick. The white end cap is a simple PVC 2" pipe cap from a building materials store. The small tube protruding from the end cap is the attachment point for the hand bulb type vacuum pump which is from a sex toy type VED; the cylinder for it was discarded; I just wanted the hand pump. The hand pump has a rotary vacuum release valve. I feel that the bulb pump gleaned from a novelty VED works very well and has a good quality relief valve; all I need was a simple, inexpensive bulb to produce vacuum; vacuum is vacuum no matter what the cost of the pump. The small tube attachment point itself was made from a Bic pen housing cut down to about 1" length. It is epoxied into a 3/8" hole drilled into the PVC end cap. The hand pump tube (not in picture) is made of a soft silicone type rubber and it attaches to the VED cylinder with a slip fit over the cylinder attachment point. The vacuum gauge is a 1 1/2" WIKA brand with a scale of 0 to -30 inches HG of vacuum. For my application the gauge rarely if ever is brought to a readout of over -5 inches HG of vacuum. The gauge comes with a brass 1/8" NPT pipe thread mount and is threaded and epoxied into a hole drilled into the PVC end cap. I used teflon tape as a seal originally, but it didn't have a perfect seal so I went with epoxy on the threads for a dependable seal.
   VED2.jpg is the same VED from the other end. After cutting the 2" acrylic cylinder to length (8") and sanding the ends smooth, I needed a comfortable, safe insertion point that had a good seal, so I obtained flexible vinyl tubing, 3/8" OD x 1/4" ID from a building supply store. I split the tubing down one side lengthwise with a razor knife and slipped the sanded end of the acrylic cylinder into the split vinyl which covered the end of the cylinder around its circumference to make a relatively soft and comfortable insertion point that makes a good seal against skin. The vinyl tubing is held onto the acrylic cylinder with a product called Marine Goop, a marine sealant that is safe for skin contact when cured. It is also from the building supply store. The vinyl tubing was held in place with tape while the sealant cured. In the picture, the vinyl tubing has a home made appearance; the irregularity you see is the cured sealant inside the small vinyl tubing; the tubing exterior is very smooth. To date, all sealants have held up well, caused no irritation or problems, and the vacuum gauges have not failed; I must take care when cleaning the units to not let water enter the guage from inside the cylinders. If I were to change anything, I would seriously consider putting one vacuum gauge inline with the hand pump tubing instead of on the cylinder itself using a T fitting from plumbing supply; this would eliminate the possibility of water from the cleaning process getting into the vacuum gauge. Making these is an ongoing process and I make changes as I go along.
    VED3.jpg is the first VED I made. I wanted one with an inside diameter of 1 1/2" so I used a semi-rigid reinforced vinyl tubing from the building supply store. It is sold as 2" tubing but the actual OD is closer to 1 7/8", with a true ID of 1 1/2". The end cap for this one is also PVC similar to the first one described, but this cap is threaded with an ID of 1 3/4". This threaded PVC cap had to be forcefully threaded onto the 1 7/8" wide vinyl cylinder. Again, Marine Goop was used as a sealer with the end cap. The attachment point for the hand pump tubing was yet another cut down Bic pen. Since the inside diameter of the reinforced vinyl cylinder was the size I wanted, I simply sanded and worked the insertion end of the cylinder until it was well rounded and smooth. A Dremel tool with a sanding barrel attached was used to rough in the radius shape of the cylinder end, then finished by hand sanding with 220 and 400 grit sandpaper. It is very smooth and comfortable and causes no problems.
   VED4.jpg is a picture of the same reinforced vinyl cylinder VED with the soft silicone rubber hand vacuum pump attached. The same pump is used for both cylinders and just transferred back and forth to whichever one is being used. The Bic pen housings used for the attachment points hold up well and never leak air.
   The acrylic tubing is from Tapp Plastics and the vacuum gauges are from McMaster-Carr. Both have websites. I am not connected to these companies in any way except as a customer. 
   My motivation for making these was a need to be active in a search for relief of my Peyronies Disease symptoms. My quest isn't over by any means, but this project started my positive results. Again, I feel my VED's are safe devices for me, and I try to base my quest with these on patience, caution, education-information and a no-rush attitude, and I urge all that experiment with devices or treatments for Peyronies Disease relief to proceed in a like manner.
   Our extended family (Peyronies Disease sufferers plus their spouses or partners) must have hundreds or thousands of talented thinkers and creators; our healing may come from within.
   
   
 
Title: Re: Angus / attachments
Post by: Hawk on April 02, 2006, 09:54:16 PM
Angus,

I want to congratulate you on a very interesting and informative post.  You did a great job with the picture attachment
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Ace on April 05, 2006, 09:44:11 AM
I got an Rx for a VED, and after a long run-around with my insurance company (according to them, I'm a woman, and their computer will automatically reject coverage on a gender-specific item for the wrong sex), I was given the name of a company that I have to buy my VED through in order to have it covered. $100 deductible, then 25% of total is what I have to pay. Anyway, the company I have to deal with can't give me any information about the pump other than that they think it's manufactured by a company called Timm. They don't know if it's manual or battery operated etc etc. It looks to me like Timm makes the Osbon unit. I was hoping for the Soma Correct based on the info on this forum, but it looks like I'll have to settle. It also seems really expensive based on what I've found on the internet. The company I have to buy it through charges $953 for it. All the Osbon units on the web seem to be in the $400 range. Anyone have any thoughts about this or positive experience with the Osbon?
Thanks,
Ace
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions Price of Osbon Esteem Manual VED
Post by: Old Man on April 05, 2006, 07:23:33 PM
Ace:

First, the $900 plus price is way too much. The company that has the rights to produce the old Osbon Units is Timm Medicial Division of Endocare, Inc. located in MN. Their price is much cheaper than that you were quoted by your insurance company. There are several sites on the web that you can purchase the Osbon Esteem manual VED for $375.00.

Here are two of them: www.erecaidpumps.com
                               www.intimate-health.com/erecaid.htm

Check out these two sites and you will see their pricing, etc. I would not pay the $900.00 plus price unless your part would be less than the $375.00 price, etc.  If you desire to contact me off line, do it on the private message board or email me at harold868@hotmail.com.

Will be glad to work with you on getting everything going for you.

Sincerely, Old Man

PS: Occasionally, these Osbon units appear on EBay auction, you might want to check there too.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Ace on April 05, 2006, 09:27:40 PM
Thanks, Old Man,

I'm feeling a pretty strong lack of confidence in both my insurance company and Apria Healthcare, who I have to purchase it through. Something just seems fishy with the 200% markup.
I'll probably drop you a line once I get it (if you don't mind) as it sounds like you've worked out a pretty successful regimen with VEDs. Meanwhile, 6+ months on vitamin E and just over a month on Ginko seems to be making a difference for the better. Some improvement in girth, but none in the length.
More soon...
Ace
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices or Contraptions
Post by: Old Man on April 05, 2006, 10:36:58 PM
Ace:

Somthing is rather amiss if they want you to be billed for the $900.00 plus cost. Anyway, check out EBay as there were some Osbon units listed there yesterday. They have been bought on EBay for as low as $50.00 each. On the old BTC forum, I believe it was juma that said he bought two of them there for only $100.00. So, check it out.

Yep, will be glad to assist you in any way with the routine/regimen that I recommend for therapy. It has worked well for me and quite a few others.

Good luck to you, and keep us informed as to your progess in obtaining the VED.

Sincerely, Old Man
Title: Going to try the VED route...
Post by: Steve on April 09, 2006, 04:55:45 PM
Old Man,

As they say, I should have listened to experience first  ;) (you'd told me that it probably wouldn't work)...I've been on the VI treatment for 10 injections so far (following TV) with exactly 0 results so far (I've got the weekly photos to prove it).  My Uro has said that the next course of treatment is probably surgery, but I brought up the subject of VED's at our last meeting, and he offered to set me up with their rep right away!  I told him that I wanted to research it a bit more, and am glad that I did.
I've just finished reading the entire VED forum, and have learned that the VED of 'choice' for Peyronies Disease seems to be the Soma Correct with the Osbon Esteem leaning more to the ED treatment side -- am I reading this correct?
Also, you've mentioned in a number of places that you've got a regimen of treatment that you've worked out that seems to have good results.  I noticed that you haven't posted it, and was wondering if you made it available on personal requests.
I'm going to take the Soma Correct 'prescription' form from their website to my Uro Wednesday to see if I can get that unit.  Otherwise, I'll ask for the Osbon unit unless you have any other suggestions.

BTW, I'll be documenting my progress  with the VED too, so maybe I'll have some results to post here like mick.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/suggested usage of VED
Post by: Old Man on April 09, 2006, 08:14:22 PM
Steve:

Yes, I did at one time on the old BTC forum post the exact formula (Regimen) that I used to work my Peyronies Disease symptoms. There so much heat placed on that post that I just gave up and did not list anymore. It has been given to a number of guys who have asked for it off line on that forum and some on this one too. It is available to any and all who have a desire to use the VED therapy.

To explain a bit further about the two medically qualified VEDs that I have used, I would give this information: First, the Osbon Esteem model with a little change in their instructions works very well for Peyronies Disease therapy in addition to the primary purpose of ED therapy, Second, the Soma Correct was designed primarily for Peyronies Disease and it was marketed by several distributors until Augusta Medical had to "pull the plug" to speak since they ran into a problem. It can still be purchased from Augusta as an ED therapy device. The Soma Correct has its own protocol covering a 26 week course for Peyronies Disease. Do not know if that protocol comes with the unit now when purchased.

Bottom line is this, either unit can be used for ED as well as Peyronies Disease. Both are of good medical quality and have a life time warranty as far as I know now. The warranty should be a question to ask at the time of purchase, etc.

If I can help further, let me know. If you decide on the Osbon Esteem manual model, I will give your all the assistance you desire about a routine to use.

Good luck to you in getting the VED and ask about insurance coverage. Some companies will pay at least a portion of it.

Sincerely, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices; re Soma Correct protocol
Post by: Mick on April 09, 2006, 10:44:38 PM
Old Man and Steve:

     The Augusta protocol for the Soma Correct is indeed included in the instruction manual which accompanies the device when purchased.  If anyone wants to see it, I can give it to them off line.  It can only be used with a 3 vacuum chamber apparatus.

Respy, Mick
Title: Re: Going to try the VED route...
Post by: hopeful on April 10, 2006, 01:15:09 AM
Steve,

I am curious- who is your URO- and did he discuss or suggest the IONTOPHORESIS by www.physion.com- I am trying to fin other guys who have used this protocol before buying-where is he located?

Hopeful


Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: Steve on April 10, 2006, 07:37:11 AM
Hopeful,

As I mentioned in some of my earlier posts (in the Verapamil... forum), I brought up the subject of Ionto at about my second visit, and it was met with a blank stare.  He was totally unaware of the process!  I showed him the articles I'd printed off from Dr Levine in Chicago, and his comment was that they 'don't do that here', and they don't have the equipment.

Later, I'd contacted Dr Levine directly, and although he didn't have any studys going on that would pay for the unit, he offered to set me up with a Ionto unit at my own expen$e (1000-1500).  Between the out of pocket expense and the idea of 'visiting' a Dr over the phone/internet for treatment, I elected to go with VI with 0 results after 10 injections.  Although, my Dr says he had another Peyronies Disease patient who showed a great deal of improvement after his 2nd injection (lucky guy!).

Steve
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices; re Soma Correct protocol
Post by: hopeful on April 10, 2006, 08:23:46 AM
Mick- what are the (3) sizes-????


Hopeful!

     The Augusta protocol for the Soma Correct is indeed included in the instruction manual which accompanies the device when purchased.  If anyone wants to see it, I can give it to them off line.  It can only be used with a 3 vacuum chamber apparatus.

Respy, Mick
[/quote]
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/sizes of cylinders and/or inserts
Post by: Old Man on April 10, 2006, 02:46:37 PM
hopeful:

Read your post about the sizes of the Soma Correct cylinders that you wrote Mick, but I will take the liberty to post them for you:

1. small black insert, I.D. 1 and 1/2 inches
2. large black insert, I.D. 1 and 3/4 inches
3. cylinder A penis end, 1 and 3/8 inches, approx. I.D.
4. cylinder B penis end, 1 and 7/8 inches, approx. I.D.
5. cylinder C penis end, 2 and 1/8 inches, approx. I.D.

I say approximately on penis end since I do not have a micrometer for a more accurate measurement.
The above sizes will suffice since they are not that critical.

All three cylinders nest into each other for the very first week's therapy sesssion. At first, it will probably seem awfully small and there might be some difficulty in getting your penis to work up into it. Using plenty lubricant and being patient with the first sessions will produce results, so one must be cautious at first. Patience is the watchword at all times when using a VED. Extreme caution must also be exercised in order not to over pump the vacuum pressure. At any sign of pain or discomfort, one must stop the pumping, relax the pressure and resume after several minutes.

The 26 week protocol for the Soma requires that one use all three cylinders in an orderly routine as specified on a weekly basis. Some exercises require one use the different size inserts to allow for expansion of the penis during use of the larger cylinders. The instructions stated which cylinder(s) to use for each specified week's exercises. Also, there is definite time and number of cycles that one is supposed to do, etc.

I have been evaluating the Soma Correct manual model for Augusta now for about 8 months and find that is it will work for Peyronies Disease exercises as well as for ED. For ED, one has to order the separte retainer ring package to hold up the erections after pumping. I use the Soma for maintenance of what I have achieved on the Peyronies Disease symptoms and when I use it for ED, I simply use the Osbon Esteem manual model retainer rings as they work just as well.

Hope that the above gives you the info you desired. If there is anything further that I can help with, let me know. Mick and I have been talking by emails back and forth about the VED regimen, etc. so he knows about all this too.

Regards, Old Man

PS: Hopeful, forgot to mention the length of the cylinders. They measure a maximum useable length at 7 inches. Any penis longer than that would require longer cylinders. Do not know if Augusta Medical can provide longer cylinders or not. I will try to fin out and let everyone know.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices: sizes of cylinders
Post by: Mick on April 10, 2006, 04:06:56 PM
Old Man,

Good explanation.  One small typo, though.  #5 should read cylinder C.  By the way I am in week 7, the first with cyl. C alone.  I fit very easily into cyl. A right from the start, so the other combos are naturally no problem.  The vacuum is so strong that I expand to fill the entire diameter of cyl. C after the 2nd. or 3rd. pump!

Regards, Mick
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: vincenc on April 10, 2006, 06:17:38 PM
Hi!

Although I am following this forum (and the old one before) for about a year (from the onset of my Peyronies Disease), this is my first post here...

My case is not much different then the most of the stories here... Got first mild symptoms (small lump) about a year ago (I was 27). Went immediately to the uro and he calm me down saying all I need are few shots of some medicine (VI)...I visited his office for about 6 months and got about 6 injection as well... Needles to say the remedy did not work at all... The situation worsened...I now have few lumps and a curve for about 35 degrees...Anyway...did some research, find this forum, bought some Vit E, PABA, Acetyl L-Carnitine...It seems it helped a little – at least the pain is gone...the curve however remains...

I am considering also the VED, but one think questions me over and over again... I still have normal erections – night erections and also regular sex life. Is the erection produced by VED in any way different then the natural one? Since, obviously the natural daily erections are not eliminating my Peyronies Disease symptoms (although they might be much worse without them, who knows)...So basically I would like to know your opinion – can the erection produced by VED be more curative then the natural one? And if yes, why; what are the differences in the mechanisms? I was thinking that maybe this protocol is the key – since the erections are repeated in short period of time...which is of course not the case by natural erection...

Thanks for your help and also a big thanks to all individuals who are working so hard for this great community!

Vincenc
Title: Re: Vincenc - VED vs. Natural Erections
Post by: Hawk on April 10, 2006, 07:05:18 PM
Vincenc,

Thank you for stepping up and becoming one of those that you thank for making this a great community.  Your thanks is demonstrated even more by your participation than it is with the statement of thanks, and it is very appreciated.

Your question is a very thought provoking one that I have pondered at length.  I also think I have a lengthy post somewhere on this topic with similar questions and my thoughts.  In short, my personal opinion based on my logic and some established facts is that a firm natural erection is better than a VED erection.  It would have as much stretching power, much more oxygenation power (much of the blood VED's pull in is O2 depleted venous blood, not O2 rich arterial blood)

I do think a VED is superior to weak natural erections .  I have never heard a satisfactory
explanation why someone that gets a very firm natural erection during the day, and the usual several firm nightly erections, would benefit from a VED.  If anyone can provide a convincing explaination, I would like to join in the discussion.

PS: My post was Pro's and Con's of VED's on Nov 30th 2005
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/correction to post relative Soma cylinders
Post by: Old Man on April 10, 2006, 09:09:22 PM
Mick:

Good show on what has developed for you in just a few weeks. Keep up the good work. I corrected my post about cylinder C.

Thanks, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/Pros and cons on VED usage
Post by: Old Man on April 10, 2006, 09:28:44 PM
Hawk and Vincenc:

Hawk, You and I have discussed this subject many times and I agree with you in that the VED draws both venous and arterial blood into the penis. However, the VED produces an erection much firmer than even the best natural erection. That in itself is not so good because to hold up an erection that firm produced by the VED it must be supported by the retainer(s) otherwise it would revert back to the natural one. If one can develop a natural erection firm enough for intercourse, they are ahead of the game so to speak.

So, now about the benefit of using the VED to get erections and/or for Peyronies Disease therapy. If used properly and in moderation, the VED can and will produce very good erections and good therapy for Peyronies Disease. Used for ED is no problem because all one has to do it simply pump up the erection, slide the retainer ring off the cylinder onto the penis and finish the intercourse, etc. Used for Peyronies Disease therapy, the pumping action has to be done under controlled conditions or in a set pattern in order to produce the desired results. A strict regimen of exercises done on a daily basis over a long period of time is required to see good results. Therefore, one must have patience to continue these exercises even though it seems no progress is being made. Some guys see immediate results, others work for months without success. Others never get good resullts.

So, bottom line of what I am saying is that one has to try the VED exercise to be able to know if results for him are obtainable. It is kind of like the old adage, nothing ventured, nothing gained. In my particular case, all known treatments and efforts to get rid of the Peyronies Disease symptoms failed. Other posts on this and the old forum have been devoted to my history so I won't repeat it here. All I know, is that the VED therapy regimen that I followed for about 6 months got rid of all my symptoms and at present there is no hourglass indentation nor plaque/nodules that I can discern. The routine was developed under the supervision of my urologist who had administered the VI injections along with other meds, etc.

Vincenc: Hope that the above might give you some insight about what the VED therapy did for one individual. There are others on this forum and the old forum that have experienced similar results. It would only be fair to state and there are posts indicating no results.  As I said above, one has to try the routine to be able to know if results for himself can be obtained.

To answer your questions about short duration erections versus natural ones, I say that during the therapy routine with the VED, you do produce more erections or near erections that are firmer than most natural ones. The repeated exercise of the erectile tissue and tunica is the key to more stretching action of VED erections than the stretching done by natural erection. Thus, the tunica being stretched beyond that of natural erections causes it to retain its stretched condition longer than that done with natural erections.

The above carries my usual caveat in that the opinions expressed are clearly only those of myself. I am not a doctor, but do have considerable experience in ED and Peyronies Disease counseling.

Sincerely, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: Steve on April 11, 2006, 07:43:19 AM
 ??? Old Man and all...doesn't the fact that the cylinder of the VED 'forces' the erection to be straight (or at least straighter) have some bearing on the VED's results too?  To my un-informed brain, the fact that the bend is forced straighter during the erection places more tension on the plaque and thus more stretching and straightening.  Any thoughts?
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/effects of VED cylinder on straightening
Post by: Old Man on April 11, 2006, 09:34:52 AM
Steve:
You are 100% correct in saying that the effect of the cylinder has a bearing on straightening the penile curve of Peyronies Disease. Since the shaft is more or less held in place while pumping, the resistance causes more blood flow to be placed in that area. That is the principle of the three cylinders of the Soma Correct VED.

The three cylinders range in size from about 1 and 1/2 inches up 2 inches. There are two sizing inserts that are used on a varying basis according to which cylinder(s) one is using. I just got an email from one of the marketing managers at Augusta Medical Systems explaining a few details about the protocol that did come with the Soma package. He stated that the 26 week protocol is no longer packaged with their VEDs until further notice. He gave me a web site where they can be obtained. I also have it stored on my computer and can forward it to any an all who wish to have it.

Again, the cylinder does play a part in helping straighten the penis while using the VED. That is the primary reason for their use.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: vincenc on April 11, 2006, 07:06:44 PM
Hi

Thank you all for taking time and provide ASAP answers....

Hawk – Yes, I agree with you totally... I am aware of the O2 issue. But on the other hand there were posts from other patients that also claimed to have firm natural erections, but yet gave credits to their recovery to the VED....However, such posts are not numerous enough to make a final judgment. This is one of the reasons, why I agree that it is important to participate in the forum...Hopefully we could statistically pick out some of the most efficient approaches...

Old Man – The repeated exercise makes indeed some differences when compared to natural erection...Maybe this is the key, who knows...You said in your last post, you can forward the soma correct protocol....If it is not too much trouble, I would be very gratefully if you can mail it to my address  (vincenc_sanches@yahoo.com)

Thank you.

Have a nice day!

Vincenc
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/Soma Protocol
Post by: Old Man on April 11, 2006, 10:33:36 PM
vincenc:

I have two computers that are used in working on the forums and the protocol is on the one that is not being used today. Will send it from the other one directly to your email address as soon as I boot it up again.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: Steve on April 12, 2006, 01:06:52 AM
Old Man,
I'm going in to the Uro's tomorrow and plan to ask for a VED.  I'm going to ask for the Soma Correct, but may get the Osbon (or something else?).  Is the protocol document that you've compiled the same for the Soma and the Osbon, or is it specific to one or the other?
Thanks for your experience.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: vincenc on April 12, 2006, 02:39:48 AM
"I have two computers that are used in working on the forums and the protocol is on the one that is not being used today. Will send it from the other one directly to your email address as soon as I boot it up again."

No need to hurry...Thank you very much in advance!

Regards,

Vincenc

Title: Re: VED's and other Devices; Soma Correct Protocol
Post by: Mick on April 12, 2006, 08:54:37 AM
Old Man:

     What's the thinking about Augusta's not including the Soma protocol with the merchandise?  Seems to me it's a pretty useless piece of equipment without it.

Respy, Mick
Title: Re:Soma Correct Protocol
Post by: Hawk on April 12, 2006, 09:23:55 AM
I cannot address whether the Soma Correct is currently shipped with or without the protocol.  If it is shipped without, the only reason would be that the FDA did not like some of their statements about VED and Peyronies Disease treatment since those statements were not supported by properly conducted clinical studies. Basically, if you cannot prove it, then you cannot say it to sell a medical product.  The issue may have been more with a few advertising statements rather than with the protocol, but I cannot answer that question. 

Having said that, Old Man provided me with a link to the Birmingham Urology Association which posts the Soma Correct protocol.  You have him to thank for finding and providing this link, I am just posting it on the forum.

http://www.vacuumtherapy.org/extras.html

PS: I recommend that those interested, copy the information.  Websites change and links often become useless for what they were intended.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/Agusta Medical protocol
Post by: Old Man on April 12, 2006, 11:53:58 AM
Note to all:

Will try to answer all the questions below in one posting. Yes, it is true that Augusta Medical no longer provides the protocol with the Soma Correct. For some reason, they were required to have more clinical evidence of its use for treating Peyronies Disease. Therefore, they removed the Peyronies Disease protocol from their packaging and will continue to do so until they have new approval for a medical quality VED. It is now marketed only for ED.

According to my source at Augusta Medical, the link that Hawk posted below lists the viable and correct protocol for use with a three cylinder VED unit. That link does not state the brand name of the VED used in the study done by the 1,000 patients. It simply says that a three cylinder or 3 stage unit must be used to use the protocol.

Now, about the differences between the Osbon Esteem manual model and the Soma Correct regimens:
We know that a 26 week protocol is available for use with the Soma. the Osbon Esteem, being develoled primarily for ED therapy, does not have a protocol in the package for Peyronies Disease therapy. The regimen that worked for me and others using the Esteem was developed by me under the supervision of my uro who had experience in a VA hospital with Peyronies Disease patients.

The Esteem regimen is usually developed for an interested party by me using the symptoms that he presents, i.e. amount of curve/bend and where it is located on the penis shaft, where plaque/nodules and other affected areas are located, loss of dimensions and any other item peculiar to that individual. The exercises must be varied to suit the individual's symptoms.

The Soma protocol and the Esteem regimen are basically the same. The Esteem has only one cylinder, but does have inserts that control the size of the opening. There are two of these available, the larger one comes with the VED when purchased, the smaller one if needed, must be purchased separately. They are still available from the Timm Medical Division of Endocare, Inc. in MN. Exercises with the Esteem are controlled by the individual as he uses the regimen over a period of time. They are diffferent for each case of Peyronies Disease.The Soma just uses the developed protocol, etc.

My usual caveat about using the VED for Peyronies Disease therapy is that it works for some and not for others. All I know, is that it worked great for me and has for others. I guess that it is like the old saw: "Nothing ventured, nothing gained." I firmly believe that it is a viable solution to Peyronies Disease for at least some.

Will be glad to field any further questions about the protocol and/or Esteem regimen. There is really no set of exercises that I have that would apply to all. However, I suppose that one could be developed with certain stipulations based on the different symptoms that have been presented by individuals.

Note to Steve:

Either of the VEDs would give you good therapy exercises for Peyronies Disease. The Soma is designed primarily for Peyronies Disease, but can work for ED. The Osbon Esteem is designed for ED, but can work for Peyronies Disease.

Regards to all, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: Steve on April 12, 2006, 03:04:20 PM
Old Man
  :) Thanks so much for the valuable inforation.
I got my Rx today for the Soma Correct VED, and am mailing it in with my insurance info.  I plan to follow the protocol in that was in the link unless you've got any 'personalized' modifications to it, like you do with the Osbon unit.  If so, let me know and I'll drop you a personal message, and we can set things up over email.

Thanks again, and I'll be posting my results.

Steve
Title: SomaCorrect Protocol
Post by: flexor on April 12, 2006, 03:24:17 PM
Following Hawk's link to the Vacuumtherapy site, the protocol described there is the SomaCorrect protocol, but unless you know the equipment, it seems to me less clear than SomaCorrect's own literature.

The SomoCorrect has a hand vacuum pump, which fits on one end of a large cylinder. The other end seals with a rubber insert ring against the body, with the penis inside the tube, and this contains the vacuum. A loose medium diameter tube fits inside the larger tube, and a loose smaller diameter tube fits inside the medium tube. These two inserts change the effective inner diameter, but play no part in sealing or holding the vacuum.

SomaCorrect own literature calls these tubes A (smallest), B (medium) and C (largest) and says that for week 1 you would use Cylinders A-B-C. So when theVacuumtheray list says "Week 1 Small cylinder", it is giving the size of the inner insert (ie use A-B-C). When it says "Medium cylinder" it means using B-C. And when it says "Largest cylinder", it means using the Somacorrect (cylinder C) without any inserts.
Title: re: Soma Correct Protocol
Post by: Steve on April 12, 2006, 03:29:21 PM
;) flexor,

Thanks for the clarification.  Now that the protocol isn't included with the unit, I'll be depending on prior users for detailed information.

Steve
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/Augusta Medical protocol
Post by: Old Man on April 13, 2006, 04:51:19 PM
Steve:

I have tried to attach a simplified version of the Soma Protocol to a reply on the forum. Sent it to Hawk who will try to get is on somehow.

The Birmingham Urology listing is very confusing unless you know the equipment as flexor said. His explanation below is very good and should be no problem to follow when applied to the Birmingham list. Maybe Hawk can get the other one listed soon.



Regards, Old Man


THE THERAPEUTIC TREATMENT PROTOCOL FOR SOMA Correct is attached to this post in MS Word format.  Click below. Hawk
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/Soma Protocol
Post by: Old Man on April 14, 2006, 09:41:56 PM
Hawk:

Many thanks for listing the link to the Soma Protocol. I was never able to get it set up for some reason.
I am sure that it will be of value to many.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: Tim468 on April 21, 2006, 12:31:12 PM
I have used a VED, though not following a protocol of any sort. Some questions and observations:

1) Why the graduated cylinder technique, using gradually larger tubes? Once a negative pressure is created, it doesn't seem to me to matter one way or the other if the tube is larger or smaller.

2) Why the vacuum/release/recreate vacuum protocol? Is there some reason that that makes more sense than simply applying a vacuum and leaving it for a period of time (ie 10-20 minutes)?

3) If one uses a VED as an aid for erectile dysfunction (ED), then that is usually accompanied by placing a ligature around the base of the penis to trap the blood drawn in by the vaccum. Some devices (ie the "medical VED" device made by "ErecAid") have a rubber ring that can be slipped off of the base of the cylinder and onto the base of the penis. My concern is that tis will be traumatic to the Peyronies Disease penis, and can lead to further injury or placque formation. My "common-sense" recommendation is to simply apply a vacuum and to leave the cylinder on - though this is not going to be much help if you are using the VED to fix ED!

Tim
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: Tim468 on April 21, 2006, 01:12:15 PM
Addendum:

In an article by Hunter Wessells (the urologist in Seattle that some have gone to), he said to use the VED as follows:

"Daily vacuum expansion of the penis using an ErecAid (Timm, Inc., Eden Prairie, Minnesota) was initiated 1 month after surgery for a minimum of 3 months. The men were instructed to use the vacuum erection device to expand the penis 10 times in succession to the most complete erection tolerated without applying the constriction band."

It did not say how long to leave the vacuum in place. This was from a surgical report by Wessels entitled: "EFFECT OF INCISION AND SAPHENOUS VEIN GRAFTING FOR PEYRONIE'S DISEASE ON PENILE LENGTH AND SEXUAL SATISFACTION".

Here is the abstract's conclusion:

"Conclusions: Incision and venous grafting of plaque leads to statistically and clinically significant increases in penile length in men with Peyronie's disease. Preoperative erectile dysfunction and cavernous arterial insufficiency were associated with a higher risk of postoperative erectile dysfunction. Nevertheless, patients reported a high degree of satisfaction with their overall sex life."

As we like to say on the net - YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary).

Tim
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/sizes of cylinders and/or inserts
Post by: Old Man on April 21, 2006, 09:15:21 PM
tim468:
Hawk says that I am the resident VED guru, so I will try to answer some your questions. Have used the Osbon Esteem manual model VED for over 10 years, almost 11. My history is posted elsewhere on the forum, so I won't go into details of that here. Only to state that at present my Peyronies Disease is in remission with only a small indication of a nodule about midway of the shaft when erect. In flaccid state, hardly noticeable and have no curve/bend anywhere.

Now about your questions: The length of time that the vacuum should be held during each pumping cycle can vary from 10 seconds to not more than 20. The most efficency is seen by repeated cycles of pumping up, hold for the time you desire, release and pump again. This action causes more and more blood flow. Although it is venous as well as arterial blood, it causes more oxygen to be forced into the erectile tissue and hopefully in or around the tunica, etc. The total time of these repeated cycles is determined by how much time one has to do them and not to excess to cause more microtrauma. Each person must determine the length of time to do the exercises based on their best judgment. Pumping up and holding the vacuum for 10 to 20 minutes or more does not allow the penis to expand and contract like a nocturnal erection does, so that is the main reason for the shorter repeated cycles.

Question about the retainer ring(s) used to hold up erections: Each medical quality VED usually comes with retainers for erections and are different is size, shape and ability to hold an erection. It takes practice using them to determine the proper one that will hold up an erection long enough for sexual intercourse. They must not be left on longer than 30 minutes. Since they act similar to a tourniquet, they must be removed after 30 minutes to allow the blood to pass back into the system. Also, to allow the penis to reduce to a flaccid state as in a natural erection. Removing the retainers must be practiced so that one can remove them with the least amount of pressure so as not to cause any damage to the erectile tissue. Again, one must practice doing this until they become familiar with the process to avoid any further trauma.

Personal Note: I used the VED for about two weeks before it became second nature to achieve an erection so that sex was possible without losing the erection. It took about 6 months of Peyronies Disease therapy to get rid of my symptoms to the state that I am today. The exercise regimen that I used was developed under the supervision of my urologist and with my trial and error system. It is totally different that the 26 week protocol for the Soma Correct style of VED.

Why the graduated cylinder size: The three cylinders system was developed by Augusta Medical Systems based on their experience with the earlier models of the old Osbon system. Mr. Geddings Osbon who owned the Osbon Esteem and other VED models sold the rights to one company, who later sold it to the Timm Medical Div. of Endocare, Inc. in MN. His son, Julian Osbon, now owner and operator of the Augusta Medical Systems company designed the Soma Correct model VED for the purpose of treating Peyronies Disease. For some reason, it had to be pulled from the market for Peyronies Disease and is now under study to clear up that problem. The theory of the three cylinders is that the small cylinder holds the penis in a more straight position when first starting the therapy. As time progresses, the larger cylinders come into play to allow for more expansion of the penis during the exercise cycles. Toward the end of the 26 week protocol, the larger cylinder only is used. Usually, by this time, the penis has begun to straighten, if it is going to, and there is no need for the penis to be constricted, etc.

Please excuse the long explanation, but I needed to elaborate on each question enough to cover the details. If you have other questions that I can field, let me know and will try to address them.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: Tim468 on April 22, 2006, 10:37:50 AM
Thanks for the explanations.

The above article by Wessells said in the discussion (uh.. I think, since I don't have it here) that the constrictor band was not to be used (in that protocol, which was done in conjuction with surgery) as it might cause more injury.

The VED has also been implicated in *causing* Peyronies Disease in a case report. "Patient 4: a 65-year-old man developed Peyronie's disease after 4 years of correct VED use. Patient 5: a 62-year-old man with neurogenic impotence following a radical prostatectomy developed penile ecchymoses acutely following placement of a smaller constriction ring. He subsequently developed a dorsal penile plaque with mild dorsal curvature."

The other case report I read was of a man trapping is testicle under the constrictor band by accident. His wife's attempts to cut the band off only cut the grip on it. What I like most about that report is that the old man recovered without problem, and most of all, that he was 85 years old!

Of course, the problem with case reports is that we do not really know if something is cause and effect. The case 3 report above eventually was treated with a penile implant. Who is to say that would not have happened if he hadn't been using the VED?

After all, we placed leeches on people thinking that bleeding them was good for them - and often people got better! It only took about 400 years to figure out that bleeding wasn't really useful. OK, OK, except  for priapism...

Tim
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/Pros and cons on VED usage
Post by: Old Man on April 22, 2006, 11:13:07 AM
Tim:

Yes, you are right about certain restrictions in usage of the VED. As with any medicine, procedure or therapy there is always cases that bear the brunt of the negative side. However, in the VED usage, my caveat has always been to use extreme caution in its use and especially in using the retainers for erections. Improper removal of these after sex can and will cause more trauma. The instructions that come with the Osbon Esteem clearly indicate that caution must be observed. I have found that when removing the retainers that one should pull out on the "ears" of the ring(s) and hold for a few seconds to relieve the pressure of the blood in the penile shaft and then slowly pull it off towards the head, etc. Another caution is that plenty of lubricant must be used when doing any Peyronies Disease exercise or removing the ring(s).

The cases you talked about are interesting in that they occurred in older men. The VED usage could have caused the onset of Peyronies Disease, but, it could have been the result of other causes. Suppose that no one really knows for sure. If the VED can help the majority of the cases of Peyronies Disease, then it would be worth the risk of using one.

Once again, I would like to make it clear to any and all that the retainers:

ARE NOT BE BE USED AT ANY TIME DURING Peyronies Disease EXERCISES, WHETHER ONE IS USING THE OLD MAN'S REGIMEN, THE 26 WEEK PROTOCOL ORIGINALLY FURNISHED WITH THE SOMA CORRECT OR ANY OTHER PROTOCOL.

Using these retainers during the exercise will put excessive pressure on the erectile chambers, blood vessels and most definitely will cause more injury to them. I know from personal experience that this is the case.

I am very pleased that we now have physicians like yourself and totheleft posting here. You guys can keep us on the straight and narrow when it comes to medical precautions. Currently, I am in the process of getting my personal urologist to become a member here. Her background is very extensive in the ED and Peyronies Disease field. Her residency was done in a city where she worked in a VA and other hospitals in that area. Do hope that she can see fit to join us and we can have the benefit of a urologist on the forum. This is what it is all about, helping others with this crazy malady.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices; Progress Report
Post by: Mick on April 25, 2006, 04:57:32 PM
     Today marks the end of the 2nd month of my use of the Soma correct according strictly to Augusta's protocal (See my first report, reply # 112, this thread).  Progress has been good but not quite so dramatic as it was in the first month.  Here are the figures:

                                 Feb. 25                 Mar. 25                  Apr. 25

Length flaccid                  4"                      4 1/4"                     4 1/2"

Length erect              4 1/2"                      4 7/8"                           5"

Girth ecect                      5"                      5 1/2                      5 5/8"

Angle                     15 deg. dorsal           5 deg. dorsal              no bend

Placque                  3/8 " strip from base     no discernable       no discernable
                             of shaft (dorsal)                change             change
                             to base of glans

There was a brief temorary set-back: by day 45 (Apr. 10), the angle had been reduced to zero, but on day 54 (Apr. 19), a bend of approximately 10 degrees dorsal was observed.  Within a day or two, however, the bend again disappeared and has remained so to date.  These is no discernable change in placque, but it does seem somewhat more flexible; perhaps the thickness has been reduced (?). 

     My next report is scheluled for May 25.

                             Respy, Mick         
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: Steve on April 26, 2006, 07:43:29 AM
 :) Mick
Thank you so much for the status report.  I just started with my Soma Correct last week, and am looking forward to some similar results.  I didn't take 'before' size measurments, but my 'angulation' is starting at 70 degrees, and it's my main concern.  I too will be trying to post my progress.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices: re Progress report
Post by: Mick on April 26, 2006, 09:03:04 AM
Hi Steve:

     Glad you found some use for my progress report.  I am really only concerned with the angulation and the plaque, but decided it might be useful to monitor the other items.  I feel like a 74 year old junior high school kid
doing the measurements, but I guess it's for a good cause.  I have gotten so much out of this forum that it's worth it.  Besides, I doubt if I'll ever meet any of the members face to face.  Sounds like you have a long way to go; I hope and pray that you will do well with the VED.

     Respy, Mick
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/serious business
Post by: Old Man on April 26, 2006, 12:59:56 PM
Mick and Steve:
Glad to see that you guys are seeing some results of your therapy work. Just keep up the exercises under the protocol and you should see some gain on a monthly basis if not sooner. However, be patient and use extreme caution with the pressure. That is the watchword in VED Peyronies Disease and ED therapy.

Mick:
No one will fault you for feeling like a teenager again! I will be 77 soon and I don't look at keeping up with progress in therapy of this mess a frivilous business. You need to keep measurements to know for sure if you are gaining anything. It is very serious and I intend to help others all possible until my time here is up.

Best regards to you guys and all others working with some form of therapy for this disorder/disease!

Sincerely, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: Will on April 26, 2006, 06:49:11 PM
Hello all.  I am a 34 year-old man who has been impotent since age 18.  When Viagra was made available, this worked wonders for me each time i used it.  However, a few years ago my hip was crushed in a car wreck, and since then Viagra does not work well at all anymore.  One year after this hip injury, on one of the occaisions the Viagra did help, I noticed a large dent in the top of the shaft of my penis.  Went to see my urologist as quick as I could (he is a well-known specialist in Peyronies Disease) and he examined me and felt no lumps - he said i did not have Peyronies Disease, and too, that i was too young.  I could no longer get erections of any sort - not even viagra worked.  I then began getting a left bend of my penis and went back to the urologist.  He diagnosed me with Peyronies Disease but still could feel no lumps.  He ordered a duplex ultrasound and gave me a hot to induce an erection for the procedure - it produced a very floppy penis - no erection.  The outcome of the procedure shoed good blood inflow, but leaky veins, however, he said it was not an extreme leak problem.  He did find a very small lump of Peyronies Disease, and said it was not major - anyway, he diagnosed me with Peyronies Disease which are causing leaky veins.  He advised the Peyronies Disease was a result of having a catheter inserted in my penis for a prolonged period of time when my hip was crushed.  I now use the soma correct and have been for 1 year.  About 6 months ago, he prescribed trimix shots and it worked fantastic!!  But now, 6 months later, it does not produce an erection, even if I try 1cc at a time.  He told me to keep on trying this 1cc trimix and if continues not to work, he will prescribe a "super" trimix (stronger stuff I suppose).  Dealing with this since 18, you can imagine, I am getting pretty desperate.  He says the penile prosthesis is an option, but recommended that I have the penile ligation surgery before opting for the prosthesis.  What are some of your thoughts on these choices?  Thanks.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: Tim468 on April 27, 2006, 01:46:52 PM
Hi Will,

A couple of issues pop up (so to speak). First, Peyronies Disease is a clinical diagnosis (as is ED) and a doctor who hears a story of someone coming in with a new dent in his penis, and who says that you do not have Peyronies Disease because he cannot feel anything - well that worries me (as does his erroneous information that you are too young to have it). It implies someone who is not listening well enough, and that always makes me worry that they won't read enough either. Simialrly, pushing up on dose of a good drug can make a lot of sense, but if loss of effect of a drug is NOT a usually seen phenomenon, then that should lead to more of a workup, not more of the drug.

If blood doesn't stay in there, then it seems that you would be a good candidate for a VED. Alternatively, if blood flows in easily when you are aroused, then it might be that all you need is a constrictor (otherwise known as a cock-ring) to keep the blood in there after it goes there with arousal. I would definitely look into something like the ErecAid or Soma like devices.

Finally, I would not go first to surgery for a couple of reasons. Since you are young, it is possible (even likely) that your Peyronies Disease is not a more "normal" aging related problem with connective tissue and wound healing, but more likely to be due to a general *tendency* to have abnormal "wound healing" or inflammatory mechanisms. Thus, I see you as being at higher risk for getting a new or more lesions after surgery. Secondly, it still seems too early to go to surgery (disease may be still evolving), and finally, you have not yet tried much in the way of non-surgical therapy.

From where I stand, it seems that you have several problems that might be *very* treatable, and should lead to good functioning erections, and a good chance of straightening out you shape too. Good luck!

Tim
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: Will on April 27, 2006, 06:23:18 PM
Tim...thanks for responding with the valuable information.  I have been using the Soma Correct since last april and it seems to work some for me.  I am just a little discouraged with the soma due to the difficulty it is for me to use the largest tube.  To explain, I have trouble getting blood to the distal half of my penis - the base engorges fine.  It seems as if the blood travels well up to the middle of my penis, but at that point there is like a blockage (nothing i can feel with my fingers) because the blood will not pass through well at all, which results in the base getting too much blood to the point of pain therefore unable to pump anymore.  No matter how slow I pump, not enough blood will go through the last half of my penis.  Now the small and medium tube does well...itis just this large tube that gives me trouble therefore not able to complete the recommended regimen for the soma.  Could this be a ring of scar around my penis restricting the blood - if so I do not feel anything there?  In reference to your advice about using a ved for my ed, I cant get enough blood past the middle of the shaft to obtain a usuable erection.  I have considered using a low dosage of triplemix and inject it before trying the large tube to see if that would help bust through this area.  Any advice on this?  And...thanks a lot for replying to my message.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: Tim468 on April 28, 2006, 12:47:14 AM
Will, that all sounds pretty challenging. I'd suggest going back to the drawing board entirely, perhaps with a new doctor (perhaps not). It seems that you need more data. I would want to repeat the vascular studies to see if blood delivery is impaired. Second, if you were able to get a complete erection one way but not another, that is confusing - doesn't make sense to me.

So that is my advice - get more or better information about how your body works and see if that helps guide you to a more individualized plan of action.

TIm
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: Steve on April 28, 2006, 07:41:33 AM
Hopeful,

Look down about 15 posts to one from Old Man.  He's attached the protocol as a word document.  There is also a link somewhere below that to a site vacuumthearapy.org that has the protocol on the Extras page.

Good luck.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices; re Progress Report
Post by: Mick on April 28, 2006, 02:33:25 PM
Hopeful:
     Steve answered your question re the protocol.  As to the others,  I am 74 years old, have had Peyronies Disease for 14 years, have never done anything about it til now, and am doing nothing now except the Soma Correct protocol, so that the improvement during the past two months and any to be realized over the next four, has been and will be attributed solely to the Soma Correct protocol.

Respy, Mick
Title: ???s for Old Man-VED's
Post by: zigwyth on May 02, 2006, 12:59:33 PM
Old Man, I thought I would post this question here instead of emailing you personally in case someone else had the same concerns. Regarding  Pudder135's post(187) in the subject of Verapamil. It was mentioned that the patient needed to have the Iontophoresis treatment performed first before using a VED because more possible plaque damage would result otherwise.Your thoughts on this? Also, how is everything going with the Somma Correct? I'm sure you have seen the post from the illiterate Zeus. Are you in the position to speak with reps about this imposter? Any info is appreciated as I am considering going to my Uro to see if I can get a Medical quality VED prescribed.Thanks
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: bob on May 02, 2006, 01:44:06 PM
Another topic entirely:
Does anyone out there have insurance through the Blue Cross network? A VED is considered durable medical equipment, and we get some sort of discount if we go 'in network.' Problem is, most of their network are these little mom-and-pop distributors of walkers and crutches. I can imagine calling lots and lots of them and having to explain what a VED is and does.

Timm Medical, which distributes the Osbon esteem, is out of network. I ordered a VED a couple of months ago through Timm Medical because one of the reps on the phone assured me that he would personally handle the order and knew a way to place it through one of my Blue Cross network providers.

That didn't happen. The item now appears as a $455 charge on my Discover bill. I have a $500 deductible for durable medical equipment, so I know I'm not going to get any coverage... but it would have been less costly out of pocket if it had come through the right channels.

The guy from Timm said some time ago that if I don't get this resolved to my satisfaction, they would give me a call tag and I could return it. (Even though I used it once or twice. I would run it through the dishwasher before returning it. By itself.)

Anybody have any input they can share? Calling Blue Cross is useless.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on May 02, 2006, 02:02:37 PM
Old Man has stated to me you don't need the ionotophoresis, and that the Soma Correct has worked on him without this, and it has worked on others.  I believe him, however remember if you use these devices to be very careful, it takes time to produce results.  The IONO if it does drive the verapamil into the target tissue, and if it does soften the plaques or shrink them, it would seem that this would make the VED exercises even easier. 

I've read online that many doctors and people claim that the VEd can't enlarge the penis, however it seems from legitimate posters here including old man, that men with Peyronies Disease can increase length and girth through the appropriate use of a medical quality VED.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/penis enlargement
Post by: Old Man on May 02, 2006, 03:07:20 PM
ComeBackid:

Let me make one thing in your previous post clearer. I stated that the VED can and will return one to the original size they were before in most cases. There are, however, some cases that resists all attempts to eliminate the syptoms. It does not enlarge one's penis beyond its original size before Peyronies Disease. It does keep the penis healthier because of it since it somewhat replaces the natural nocturnal erections.

The VED draws venous blood as well as arterial blood into the penis, so it is not totally like a natural erection. It does provide one with the means to have sex almost in a natural way. I say almost because it does not replace the natural one, only gives an induced erection.

With regard to the ionto treatment, I stated that is was not necessary to use it, but if one desired to to use it, there was possibility that it could soften the plaque/nodules enough that it would further enchance the VED pressure. I have never used the ionto, so I have absolutely no experience with it use.

Please note that the above is only my considered opinion based solely on my personal experience and that gained through working with others using the VED and other means of exercises.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on May 02, 2006, 05:32:54 PM
Old Man,

Thats what I thought, the VED can in MOST cases return a Peyronies Disease sufferer to their size before they had Peyronies Disease, however it won't add increased size like say if you had no Peyronies Disease and you just started using it, some companies and many scam sites online claim this and they are wrong.  I'm just hoping to restore lost size caused from Peyronies Disease. I think the IONO would only help the VED process, however I probably won't start my VED usages until a few weeks after IONO.  I will keep everyone posted if I have any success, or if I don't.

ComeBackid
Title: Graduated tube sizes
Post by: Angus on May 02, 2006, 11:32:00 PM

    The use of graduated tube sizes with a protocol very similar to the one attached by Old Man several posts below has worked well for me. The use of small and medium sized tubes has helped with a reduction of the original 45 degree left curve to the present 10 degrees. I also do believe that in most cases original size (or very close to it) can be attained with the graduated tube size protocol as it has for me. I am not overly concerned with the last 10 degrees of left curve as I had a small congenital left curve pre-Peyronies Disease as far back as I can remember, but for now I will continue to use the protocol. I had plaque and subsequent scarring only on the left side about midway down the shaft; the hard plaque has been gone for years. I do believe that gentle negative pressure or vacuum on a scheduled basis with graduated tube sizes does help to exercise erectile tissues and helps keep blood vessels in the penis healthier. I have not had ED as a result of Peyronies Disease and am thankful for that every day. Thanks guys for posting what results you have so far here.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: Tim468 on May 03, 2006, 09:49:33 AM
Can those of you who have done this comment further on the logic of the graduated tube size thing?

My confusion is this: If the initial tube is smaller (I take that to mean of smaller diameter), doesn't that mean that the penis is more constrained as it fills with blood? Time for ASCI art:

|\   \  |
| \   \ |
|  \   \|
|  /   /|
| /   / |
|/   /  |

My conceptual problem is that it seems that as one brings in the edges of the wall, in the above crude art, it would help bring the angulation more straight. That would suggest that gradually narrowing the diameter would gradually apply greater straightening forces.

So what is the rationale for gradually using wider diameters over time?

Tim
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/graduated cylinder sizes
Post by: Old Man on May 03, 2006, 11:03:49 AM
Tim:

Let me add my view of the different sizes of VED cylinders. In most cases of Peyronies Disease, the penile tissue has shrunken and/or curved by whatever caused the trauma to it. To put it in everyday words, it is best likened to beginning working out at a gym. There you start out with lessor exercises and/or time of duration known as cycles of workout, etc. since your body has been inactive for extended periods of time and the muscles have atrophied or shrunken.

Applying the same principle to "working out" the penile tissue with the VED, the same procedure should be followed. If one applies too much negative pressure to begin with in Peyronies Disease exercises, more trauma is most assuredly going to happen. So, with the graduated sized cylinders, one starts off with very low pressure in a small area to concentrate the pressure better. Over time using this cycle, the penis "gets used" to the negative pressure. Then moving on to a larger diameter cylinder lets the penis expand a bit more, again using the moderate pressure. After more time has gone by and the penile tissue gets more adapted to the larger amount of vacuum pressure, it can accept more and more blood flow. Then after the prescribed numbers of weeks have gone by, then the more advanced cycles are added, etc.

The above description applies to the three cylinder VED only. The one cylinder VEDs must use a different approach to the negative pessure and therefore require a different protocol. There are several approaches to this VED and there has been a number of guys having success with it as well as the three cylinder VEDs.

The above carries my usual caveat in that it is only my considered observations while using the VED for myself and counseling with others in my prostate cancer support work.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: Tim - Cylinder size
Post by: Hawk on May 03, 2006, 11:25:57 AM
Tim,

I am glad you asked that because I have struggled with the whole concept of cylinder size trying to apply physics to the concept and always a bit unsure if I was making the common mistake of applying cartoon physics instead.  I also have to say i am impressed with your ascii art.

I wonder if the point of the smaller cylinders is to prevent the expansion of the normal more elastic tissue and transfer the stretch to the scar tissue.  Assuming the scar tissue does expand with time, might it fill out the small cylinder?  The diameter can then be increased to allow more expansion to the normal tissue and focus further stretching to the scar?  I also wonder if the diagram in a small cylinder would look more like the pathetic attachment below.
Title: Re: Tim, Hawk, Old Man and Cylinder Sizes
Post by: Angus on May 03, 2006, 12:27:43 PM
 The penis is constrained in the smallest tube in the sense that it expands all the way to the tube inner wall. In my case, the area on the left side with scar tissue does not expand out like the healthy tissue and is seen through the tube as an indention. Gentle vacuum is expanding tissues the full length of the penis and is exercising the entire organ including the scarred area. Moving to the larger cylinders in the protocol lets the penis expand in width to its natural limits without the constraint of the smallest tube. Hawk, the indention has not stretched out to the wall of the small tube for me; the indention has appeared to get somewhat smaller during the last year however. FYI, your attachment is not pathetic  ;D, but a pretty good representation of what I experience with the small tube, but with a much smaller indention area. Here is my own feeble attempt to illustrate what I mean with the scarred area more to scale to the tube size. The penis is erect within the small tube and the indention is on the left.
____
ll     ll
ll     ll
ll     ll
l\    ll
l/    ll
ll     ll
ll     ll

   I do not know if the scarred area will ever stretch out completely, but I do know that some sort of re-modelling and straightening has taken place for me. I believe the physics of the protocol are longitudinal forces (lengthwise) applied by the smallest tube and lateral forces (width) applied by the larger tubes. These are my own observations and thoughts only.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: Tim468 on May 03, 2006, 12:58:18 PM
Thinking about it - I don't buy it. At least not yet... (s)

There are two different issues here. First is stretching of tissue that is somewhat fibrotic. One could argue it lots of different ways. For instance, one could argue that the penis is inlfated in the smaller tube in a sort of "sub-maximal" way, such that it fills out to the diamter of the tube, leaving the defect as a dent (as described below). The problem I have with that, is that I do not see how a vacuum pressure would then be effectively transferred to the targetted area of induration or plaque. If the penis cannot completely fill out, because it is constrained by the tube diameter, then how can we argue that a stretch is being applied to the affected area?

If the penis occludes the end of the tube, then the only direction for it to grow is length-wise, not in girth. Yet it will be both length and girth stretching that is required for a real stretch (or so it seems to me). and if we end up by applying greater vacuum forces gradually, those will only be applied to the tip, and not to the area of "defect" in the drawing... (marked with > signs)

     ||     ||
  > | \    ||
  > |/     ||
     ||     ||

I see that as a longitudinal stretch, not a locally applied vaccum force.

On the other hand, if one uses a large tube - say a real Bell Jar with room for anyone to rattle around in, no matter how angulated, I could see that while stretch might be applied, it would never be a "corrective" stretch.

So this boils down to a fundamental discussion of what the VED is actually doing. If the VED is to improve blood flow to the tissue, them it shouldn't much matter whether or not the tube is small or big. What may matter is how long one allows the vacuum to remain applied, or whether it should be repeatedly done for brief periods of time. If the purpose is to stretch, and the blood flow issue is less vital, then using a tube in which you fit, but cannot bend too much, and applying a vacuum for a longer period of time would make sense.

Sorry to muddy that waters, but I think that the rationale for using VED's is all over the place in the medical literature (such as it is) and that application of it makes sense for a variety of potential therapeutic reasons that have not been studied very well.

Tim
Title: Re: Tim, and thoughts on ved forces, stretch, etc
Post by: Angus on May 03, 2006, 03:10:01 PM
Some thoughts...
Assuming that unrestricted erection size is limited by the tunica membrane which contains the Corpora Cavernosa erectile tissue, and assuming that the small ved tube inside diameter is slightly smaller than an individuals natural erection width, the vacuum erection would expand laterally only to the width of the small tube; the tunica would not be stretched to its natural erection width limit and blood pressure stretching from within upon the healthy tunica would be effectively negated (except for longitudinal forces towards the tip). The indenture or scar area appearing as an indentation however would not be constricted by the tube width and not be touching the inner sides of the tube. The scar or indenture would be getting the same outward force (blood pressure) as the restricted but expanded-to-tube-size healthy tunica which may be allowing some stretching or re-modeling of the scar in relation to the healthy tunica tissue beside it. All this is assuming that Peyronies Disease scar tissue has some degree of stretch potential, and I don't think anyone in the medical community or laymen have any clue on this potential at present.
I don't think you muddy the waters at all Tim. Sharing thoughts, notes and observations here on the board is a good thing and encourages thinking. Hopefully we'll get enough data someday to draw some conclusions about the physics of forces on erectile tissues and how they relate to Peyronies Disease and VED usage. Until then we've got to keep plugging away at this and further our understanding of the mechanics.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/why it works or does not work
Post by: Old Man on May 03, 2006, 05:29:38 PM
Guys:

I am about to make a profound statement about the VED usage and hereafter will not address the subject again in the vein that we are now using. We seem to be straining to swallow a gnat and then gulp down a camel as we used to say back in the country.

It is my firm belief that we are trying to place too much emphasis on the subject of cylinder size and how it works or why it does not work. The main purpose of the three cylinder VED is to place restriction around the shaft to preclude lateral expansion of the shaft while applying vacuum pressure during the early stages of the protocol. This is designed so that the vacuum being applied will pull the blood flow toward the glans area. Then, holding the applied pressure for a definite period of time and as the pressure drops off adding more to keep the penis totally engorged with blood. Therefore, the constant pressure at varying levels does a stretching and relaxing action per the protocol. It is the same principle as a muscle being stretched and relaxed in any exercise of the body in a gym. The ever changing pressure allows the smooth muscle of the penis to recover from any trauma it has encountered. The main difference in the VED exercises and those used in a gym is that the penis contains smooth muscles and the body contain striated muscles. Smooth muscles take longer to develop and remain in a stretched condition than the striated ones.

All, I know is this, that after over 50 years of Peyronies Disease coming and receding 4 or 5 times, I have tried just about any and everything that came my way up to and including 45 3 minutes bombardment sessions of radiation. None of the treatments that I used, Colchicine, Potabo (took over 13,000 of them) Yohimbine, the ED drugs and some I can't even remember, did nothing. The Osbon Esteem manual VED has been the only treatment of any kind that gave me back my original size, shape and the ability to perform sexually. (Non nerve sparing radical prostatectomy saw to my being totally impotent.) The three cylinder VED can and will perform the same purpose only in a different way.  The VED does provide a very safe and viable means for erections when used properly and with extreme caution. As with all things, common sense should be the rule of the day.

The above is my considered opinion through the many years of experience with this crazy mess called Peyronies Disease. It is only fair to say that each and every case of Peyronies Disease is totally different from any other and will require special treatment and/or exercise therapy to get any relief.

Good luck to any and all who will venture to use the VED and hope that you have success in getting some relief. If anyone desires to ask me questions by PM, I will be more than happy to address them. I have no desire to cause any problems for anyone with regard to use of the VED in any way, shape, form or fashion. To each his own.

Sincerely, Old Man

Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: j on May 03, 2006, 06:22:27 PM
First, I have to say that in 25 years of working with computers, this is the greatest appplication of ASCII art I've ever seen.  :D

After reading the preceding discussion I would agree that the smaller tube has its purpose. I see two factors to consider: elasticity and stretchability.  Elasticity means temporary lengthening during an erection; stretchability implies permanent lengthening of the tissue.

The bend is caused by the unequal elasticity of the fibrotic and normal tissue. But besides being more elastic, normal tissue is also more stretchable. So if the vacuum were applied in an unrestricted space, you'd see the maximum bend and - I think -  the normal tissue would stretch more readily than the fibrotic tissue - so the bend could actually get worse.  In other words, you could make the 'good' side longer without a corresponding increase of the 'bad' side.

The smaller tube lets the vacuum produce a longitudinal stretching which would exert force on the fibrotic tissue because it's what's holding you back as the vacuum tries to pull you forward into the tube. It could not cause the normal tissue to stretch further than the fibrotic tissue.

Which brings me back to the idea of traction and those oh-so-hokey sounding stretching devices. Were it not for the obvious inconvience and discomfort, I think they might be part of the answer.

I hope I made my point clearly enough that some of you can respond to it.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on May 03, 2006, 08:52:09 PM
Without my VED and not totally understanding how you actually control the negative pressure, its hard for me to picture how this works.  But what I notice about my own penis is that when its flaccid and I'm walking around it shrinks up and becomes hard.  However when I sit down more blood flows in and it grows probably to something like the normal size it should be when its flaccid.  The tissue seems to be durable, and even the fibrous tissue for me seems to be able to stretch.  When I get an erection it is shrinking, but if I put a finger at the base of my penis my penis kind of gets bigger, also if I use my ass muscles to push more blood into my penis.

The real question is can calcified tissue expand at all?

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: Tim468 on May 03, 2006, 09:34:32 PM
Quick response to different thoghts:

A penis may shrink up when it is cold (for instance). It may also shrink up when it is under "stress". That is, adrenaline will make you "up tight and outta sight" (That is sort of what Stevie Wonder was singing about - he was referring to the balls when one is aroused...but I digress).

Dive into cold water, or have someone jump out and scare you and you will shrink right up. That is not a function of "less bloss" flow. It is a contraction of smooth muscles that are arrayed around the wall of the penis, and by conracting, the penis retracts. These are NOT the smooth muscles that do not work right when one is impotent - those are usualy the smooth muuscles that line vascular structures and allow the release, or trapping of blood in the erectile tissue.

So "shrinkage" refers to a function of different smooth muscles than those usually of importance in erection.

However...  the fibrotic changes in Peyronies Disease are often (but not always) due to the *transformation* of myocytes (smooth muscle cells) into "myofibrocytes" - which are transformed muscles cells that have become fibrotic.

To me - based on my reading and personal experience - this means that the activity of the smooth muscles that pull me uptight and cause shrinkage, are associated *causally* with the changes of Peyronies Disease. Therefore, for my personal experience (having held Peyronies Disease successfully at bay for over 30 years), *stretching*, and relaxing are two important aspects of preventing changes.

To do that, I have tried to get daily erections - and better yet to use them. Secondly, I have applied stretching forces - enough to look like a third base umpire in situations where I might have thought twice about doing that - hohum... I tug a lot whenever I can. I think that by resisting contraction, one might be able to prevent the permanent shortening of the fibrotic area.

In addition to stretching, i have worked to promote "not shrinking". Since adrenaline causes this to happen, I have worked - HARD - on learning to relax and to not be a 'responder" with high blood pressure and stress responses. I take hot baths to relax my penis. Trying to be as "hang loose" (if'n ya know what I mean) has been a good thing for me (I am thinking of you ComeBackid - as hard as it is to imagine - i think panicking less will ultimately help you more).

Largely, this has worked for me. But as I have aged,and the frequency of erections and intercourse have slowed down, it has stopped working. So, now the verapamil and VED use. And the Iontophoresis I am doing is also loaded with decadron and I am also taking carnitine. We shall see.

Tim

One other thought: if we agree that a VED cannot make you bigger than you were originally (or make someone without Peyronies Disease larger), then it doesn't make sense to me that one might "overstretch" the normal part of a penis and thus lead to a greater curvature.
Title: Swallowing camels, VED mechanics and Stevie Wonder lyrics
Post by: Angus on May 03, 2006, 11:31:10 PM
  Old Man, I see your point... swallowing camels (understanding graduated cylinder and regular VED physics) can be almost overwhelming to the layman. I think it's part of human nature to endeavor to understand the workings of everything of a mechanical or physical nature and this may be exacerbating stress levels here. 
  My own thought: Use of a VED of any type is a frightening prospect to men who are considering its use... I believe questions are being asked by men who are searching for assurance that nothing dangerous or damaging will happen to them in addition to just being curious as to how the physics works out. Another thought Tim... calming down and not being a "responder" with high blood pressure and stress responses might be a good step One before VED therapy and it might calm mens fears induced by the anticipation of inserting ones penis into an array of acrylic cylinders. Worrying less about the physics at this point and resting assured that there is nothing in the properly used protocol that would induce further damage may be a good thing for prospective VED users.
  And Tim, your analogy, Stevie Wonder lyrics "Up tight and outta sight" re: aroused balls has forever changed the way I shall listen to that Stevie Wonder song (I'm suppressing a stress response as we speak  ;D). Perhaps Stevie was referring to relaxation therapy when he wrote "Come Let Me Make Your Love Come Down", but alas, I don't want to drift off topic...
  Bottom line: Prospective VED users, fear not: no harm will be done by a properly used high quality VED and recommended protocol.
Title: Re: Somacorrect sizes
Post by: flexor on May 06, 2006, 02:24:46 PM
Just to iadd a little factual information, in the light of penises (penes?) expanding to fill Somacorrect cylinders, the actual internal cylinder dimensions are:

Small: 1 1/4 ins
Med: 1 1/2 ins
Large 1 7/8 Ins.

Outer cylinder length: 8 ins.

Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: j on May 06, 2006, 04:09:17 PM
RE: VEDs and 'stretching':  I think many of us have always found the whole idea of "penis enlargement" so laughable that we assume it can't be done.  But tendons can be stretched, as can skin. (To prove this to yourself, get your weight up to about 350 and keep it there for 10 years, then drop 200 pounds and stand naked in front of a mirror.)  I believe even bones can be lengthened by traction. 

I don't know what sorts of tissue the penis includes, I know it's a complex structure, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that it could be expanded or lengthened by persistent application of the right forces.



Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/measurement of the Soma cylinders
Post by: Old Man on May 06, 2006, 04:25:47 PM
flexor:

Looks like that you measured the cylinder diameter from the end that goes on to the pump.

The Soma that I have measures as follows:

Cyl. A End that insert fits into: approx. 1 - 9/16 inches I.D.
Cyl. B End that insert fits into: approx. 1 -11/16 inches I.D.
Cyl. C End that insert fits into: approx. 2 - 1/8 inches I.D.

These measurements are without the insert in place.
Note that this is approx. since the cylinders are likely to be in metric measurement. (Don't have metric rule.)

The inserts measure: Small - 1 - 3/8 inches I.D.
                            Laarge - 1 - 3/4 inches I.D.

Again, approx. since they are likely metric also.

Usable length of the cylinder is 7 inches from the outside of the inserts to a safe distance from the pump itself.

Careful examination of the cylinders show that they are tapered from the dimensions that I list above to the ones that you gave in your post below.

Another note about the cylinders, if the stock ones are not large enough, larger ones are available by special order only and are made of glass rather than the lexan or whatever the material.

Thanks for giving this information as it will give some perspective as to the actual sizing of the VED, etc.,

Regards, Old Man
Title: Somacorrect sizes
Post by: flexor on May 07, 2006, 03:28:31 PM
Old Man.

You are correct. The cylinders do not appear to be as tapered as they actually are.
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/simplified version of the three cylinder protocol
Post by: Old Man on May 08, 2006, 12:08:46 PM
Note to all:

In view of several requests that I have received by PM, the location of the protocol is listed as shown below.

The simplified version of the three cylinder Peyronies Disease protocol is listed in a link on post #157 below. It is in Microsoft Word Version stored using Microsoft Works Version 4.0.

There should be no problem in connecting with that link.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: Tim468 on May 08, 2006, 12:35:09 PM
Here is what I do not understand:

***********
1         A-B-C         Daily         10 cycles
2         A-B-C         Daily         10 cycles
3         B-C         Daily         10 cycles

******** etc...

Does this mean that you do ten cycles with A, followed by ten with B, folowed by 10 with C (on day one), and that on day 3, you are going to do that with only the B and then C cylinder?

Other than my continued confusion about the applicability of the process to different lesions (I do not have a large curvature at all), it seems to give quite a variable amount of daily suction (so to speak) over time.

Thanks if you can un-confuse my mind!

Tim
Title: More protocol comments/questions
Post by: Steve on May 08, 2006, 03:59:57 PM
Tim,
If I can weigh in, I take the protocol to mean that you use all 3 cylinders (A, B, and C) at the same time for the 10 cycles.  This is because C (the largest) is the only cylinder that connects with the vacuum pump, and the others 'nest' inside it.  To put A (the smallest) inside C alone would let it move around inside too much and I think could conceivably pinch  :o sensitive parts.

Old Man,
One quick question about the Soma protocol...the cycle consists of holding the vacuum for 10-20 seconds and then releasing it.  The instructions are to repeat 10 times.  I'm curious how long you should 'rest' after releasing the vacuum before pumping up again.

Steve
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/protocol for Soma
Post by: Old Man on May 08, 2006, 04:06:57 PM
This will answer the two preceeding posts as Steve's came in while I was typing the first answer.

Tim:

No, it does not mean use A B and C separately for 10 cycles each day. It is a bit confusing, but what it means is this: Use all three cylinders, A,B, and C mated together for the required 10 cycles per each session. In other words, assemble all three cylinders in their nested position, place either one or two inserts to size the opening to one's penis for a good tight fit and then proceed to do Week 1 exercises. Then, after Week 1, do Week 2 with the prescribed lettered cylinders and so on down the schedule until all 26 week sessions are completed. It is best to follow the required schedule daily to obtain the desired results. If you miss a day, do not do two sessions on one day as a makeup because it could cause irritation or edema of the tissue if you pump too much, etc. Should you get any edema or irritation, stop the sessions until it heals before starting up again and then use less vacuum, etc.

Again, a word of caution about using all three cylinders: When you first start using them, it will appear that the opening is too small for your glans/penis to fit into the cylinder and work well. Be patient, use plenty lubricant on the penis and in the small cylinder, then work slowly until you are familiar with the exercise. It will be helpful to apply some vacuum pressure to help move the head portion into the cylinder. If one is not circumcised, the foreskin may need a little positioning by moving the cylinder around to allow it to flow into the cylinder and stretch out. Don't place too much emphasis on it if the whole penis does go all the way in on the first sessions. The small cylinder is so designed to keep the penis in a very confined area and very straight when starting with the overall therapy. So, it make take several days to get used to the fit and allow the penis to penetrate further into the cylinder, etc.

The protocol is really not complicated, but does require practice to get used to the procedure and the feel of the penis being confined in the cylinder(s). After a week or two, it should become second nature for it to feel OK and you are comfortable with doing the process.

Will be glad to work with you or anyone who may experience problems using any model of the VEDs.

Regards, Old Man

PS: Almost forgot, there are 26 lines on the protocol and each numbered line represents one week, i.e. 1 = week, 2 = week 2 and so on down the listing. The letters in each line indicated the cylinder(s) to be used during that week's exercise session cycle.

Note to Steve:

Again, the protocol is lacking in stating the time between each pumping cycle. Use your own judgment as to the time, but do not wait too long as the vacuum seal might be broken and it it best to hold the seal, etc. What I do is slowly ease off the pressure for a few seconds to almost a flaccid state, but, keep the seal and begin the cycle again.

Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: Tim468 on May 09, 2006, 10:06:33 AM
I am 51 and have had Peyronies Disease since I was 21.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices
Post by: bob on May 11, 2006, 10:58:52 AM
I'm hoping Old Man will be online today at some point to read this. I need his expertise...

After a long period, I learned that my Blue Cross/Blue Shield plan will not cover the Osbon Esteem VED that I ordered from Timm Medical. It is out of network. Basically, that means I have a $500 deductible for durable med equipment, which means I have to pay the full $445 cost.

I'm in the process of trying to get them to take it back, because they did assure me that there was a way they could place the order in-network. A DME supplier near where I live, which is in network, has a machine called the Encore Manual VED. Is this comparable to the Osbon Esteem Manual, in your experience? I notice from pix of it that it is not a slanted design like the Osbon. In addition, when I discussed this with the rep, he had no idea about the availability of a smaller-sized adaptor.

Please advise ASAP. Thanks!
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices/Osbon Esteem
Post by: Old Man on May 11, 2006, 01:49:15 PM
Bob:

Wrote you a PM, so look for it.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Devices; progress report
Post by: Mick on May 26, 2006, 04:03:26 PM
Hi All:

     Yesterday marks the 3 month anniversay of my beginning the Augusta Proocol.  There have been no changes in flaccid length, erect length, erect girth or angle since my report of April 25  (see reply 164 this thread), so I will not bother to repeat all that information today.  There does seem to be some positive change in the plaque; however, this could be due to my fertile imagination: the width at the base of the shaft appears to still be 3/8" but may be tapering slightly toward the glans where it appears to be narrowing, or breaking up, or in some way becoming less than it was.  Perhaps it's not so thick as it had been.  Since I have completed exactly half the protocol (91 of 182 days), there is ample time to acertain what is actually going on.  In retrospect,  I think that perhaps I should have had a sonogram prior to beginning the protocol, but no sense crying over spilt milk.

     In summary, I am very satisfied and upbeat about the whole process, and even if I fail to observe any further improvement, I will be happy with the results.

     See ya'll next month.

Respy, Mick
Title: Re: Wantitstr8 - Use Fastsize traction device
Post by: Hawk on June 04, 2006, 11:29:13 PM
WantItStr8

On another thread you mentioned that you just started the Use Fastsize traction device.

Is Levine investigating this specific device?

Did he recommend and protocol?

What are your impressions of the device and its use?  (in terms of ease of use, guidelines for safety etc)
Title: Re: FastSize Traction Device - Dr. Levine
Post by: Hawk on June 05, 2006, 07:10:46 PM
Once more, Mark our resident researcher comes through with a great link.  It is difficult to adequately express appreciation to members that go the extra mile to help others and improve our presence on the internet.  Thanks Mark!

Mark found this link discussine Dr. L. Levine's interest in the traction device and his plans to test the device.  http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060605/lam006.html?.v=54

The home page for this device http://www.fastsize.com/?google=p1buy has some less that professional advertising but the issue is - "will it work".

I can see some logical advatage over a VED in that it is the scar tissue that is the shortest link in any longitudinal stretching.  Therefore it would seem to follow that tension would stretch the area directly shortened by Peyronies Disease and not exert stretching on other areas of the penis thus reducing the curve and restoring length.  It also can be applied for much longer periods than a VED without monopolizing the patients full time and attention.  However, the issue is still "will it work"?
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: wantitstr8 on June 05, 2006, 11:50:47 PM
I was aware of the impending trial a couple months ago.  My Uro is Dr. Levine and he mentioned the traction device before I began my VI treatments.  I opted for the injections but have since purchased the traction device on my own.  I cannot participate in the trials because of the VI but the results from the trial in Europe are promising.  If I recall correctly, the results were a significant reduction in plaque size and an average 50% reduction in curvature over the 6 month term of the study.  Dr. Levine said that he does not believe that the device can cause additional injury, if properly used.  I figured I'd give it a try.  He also just put me on Pentox and Arginine.  I also use a VED at his insistence...he is very aggressive in dealing with this problem.  Hard to say that I have gotten substantial results yet, however, the distressing turtle effect seems to be going away.  One potential additional benefit from the device is the hope that it may restore lost length and girth...at least that's what the study seems to indicate...that would be a nice little bonus...
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: wantitstr8 on June 06, 2006, 06:45:34 AM
Hawk-

Sorry, I guess my post didn't really answer some of your questions.  As far as the Fastsize device is concerned it is really not difficult to use, however the study indicated to be effective you really need to use the device for about 8-10 hours per day.  Since I have a lot of freedom at work, this does not really pose a significant problem for me, however, I could see this being a problem for some.  Although the device is not really bulky, it does neccessitate the use of loose clothing...prevents embarassing bulges and uncomfortable binding.  I am still in the "break in" period so I am only wearing the device for about 4 hours per day but you need to remove the device about once per hour...circulation issues.  The general comments I hava heard about the device is that you need to be committed to using it for it to work properly...I could see how that is true since you are constantly aware of having the device in place.  Cost for the device is about $300.00 so it isn't cheap but if this helps my situation I think it will be money well spent.  Basically, you need to make sure that the device will fit your lifestyle and you can make the comittment...of course this is assuming the contraption works in the first place...I'll keep you guys informed.
Title: Fastsize Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on June 06, 2006, 07:44:19 AM
Oh man,

I did not know you had to wear the device for hours at a time, sounds kind of tedious.  How easy does it stay on?  What if you get an erection while wearing it?  Do you have a link to the product from the company by chance?

ComeBackid
Title: FastSize Traction Device
Post by: wantitstr8 on June 06, 2006, 01:12:38 PM
ComeBackid-

Just so you know, I'm not endorsing the product.  I'm using it because it seems to make some sense to me, a limited clinical study showed positive results, my Uro thinks it may be of some benefit, and I have some money to throw at "my little problem".  So far I cannot say that I have seen any positive results...after all it has only been a week.  I say this because I'd hate to see you spend money you might use elsewhere on a device that me be of little or no good.  Having said that, the device is cumbersome, uncomfortable, and difficult to conceal.  However it also is potentially beneficial.  Weighing all those factors I have decided to give it a try.  It is not difficult to put on, however, you need to follow the instructions very carefully to avoid potential damage to your little friend.  By the very nature of the device it will constrict blood flow to the glans...potentially a big problem if steps are not taken to permit circulation on a regular basis.  You can get more information by visiting the Fastsize website.  There are also several other similar devices...jes extender and andro-penis are two of them.  I purchased the Fastsize device because this is the device my Uro is going to use for the clinical trial.

I think this will be a very difficult course of treatment...Having worn this device for 4 hours per day I can see where 8-10 hours per day will be a major undertaking.  I'm going to give it a try and will post any results I get from using the device.
Title: FastSize Traction Device
Post by: ComeBacKid on June 06, 2006, 01:47:56 PM
Wantitstr8,

Do you have a link to the clinical studies showing it had positive results?

Seems to me like the hardest part will be getting the patients to keep up with wearing it all day, while at work, could prove to be extremely challenging.

Probably much easier to do for college graduates like me who are still unemployed or the retired folk  ;D
Title: FastSize Traction Device
Post by: wantitstr8 on June 06, 2006, 08:21:37 PM
ComeBackid-

I am aware of two studies; one in Spain and one in Italy.  I just did a quick google and came up with the following:

http://www.peyronies-disease-treatment.com/peyroniesscientific-study.htm

You can google a series of words relating to the contraption and find more information.  Dr. Levine is starting his trial soon, and this is the one I am interested in.  I'm not sure how well structured the trials were in Europe, however, these traction devices are classified as approved medical devices...of course so is a tongue depressor and I don't think those can help my situation much.  In any event, do some research and come to your own decisions...make sure you discuss your plan with your Doc and get his blessing before doing anything...

some words to google:  andromedical , danamedic, fastsize, jes extender, traction, peyronies, etc., etc., etc.
Title: Re: Wantitstr8 - FastSize Traction Device
Post by: Hawk on June 06, 2006, 10:21:09 PM
Wantitstr8,

I think a kilt would make the whole thing much more manageable.  :D
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Liam on June 06, 2006, 10:47:00 PM

QuoteI think a kilt would make the whole thing much more manageable.

Unless "Hammer" pants make a come back. ;)
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: j on June 06, 2006, 10:55:31 PM
And please, guys, remember to take it off before you go through airport security.  I would not want to be standing there trying to explain exactly what had just set off the metal detector.

Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: SteveW on June 07, 2006, 12:28:28 AM
Just today the big brown truck delivered my "Ecoextender" traction device.  Looks like good quality, but their manual and website are not as comprehensive as I would like.  But I do have the gadget figured out.  Here's the good part...I ordered it off ebay for $184 buy it now, including shipping.  That's almost half the manufacturer prices you see about...and I like the "comfort strap" on this one better than the "loop" which is what you see often.  So, tomorrow I begin.  Men, I'll keep you posted.

ecoextender.com
Title: Ecoextender
Post by: ComeBacKid on June 07, 2006, 01:57:12 AM
I checked out that webpage, I wasn't to impressed man.  They don't just market that product for Peyronies Disease it seems, they actually claim it can enlarge the penis for anyone.  I think a lot of us have already agreed that the only way you can enlarge your penis with Peyronies Disease is by stretching the plaque out, but normal corpus cavernosum tissue can't be expanded or so it seems to me.  Even when stretching the plaque, Dr. Carrol was telling me you have to first soften the plaque, trying to stretch a calcified plaque could quickly become a disaster.  I'm very skeptical when it comes to these kinds of equipment and what not.  My urologist at Hershey said if you want to make your penis bigger you can add 1 inch of length for every 35 pounds you lose.

They used to promote jelqing as an "ancient arabic technique," as a way to increase penis size.  For those of you who don't know many of the penis enlargment sites promoted and sold this technique, if you bought their membership they taught you how to do these exercises properly so to say.  Then the owners would get on their live chatrooms and act like regular customers who did the exercises and reported HUGE PENIS GAINS!  I investigated this for years and found it to be a huge scam, in fact one guy operates multiple different penis enlargment sites, and the exercises he promotes you can actually get offline for free.  Anyway these exercises of stretching are dangerous and can mess up your urethra, causing a feeling of having to go to the bathroom all the time. 

I'd be very careful with these devices.  What is Dr. Levines opinion on them before starting the clinical trials, he must have some faith in them if hes doing the trials using them, either that or hes being paid VERY WELL!

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: SteveW on June 07, 2006, 02:44:08 AM
I am certainly not buying in to all of their claims, which by the way, are no different than any of the the other traction device / enlargement etc., sites and products.  I am NOT endorsing this particular product over any other.  I was simply trying to contribute to the group and the current topic of traction POSSIBLY being effective to SOME degree.  I don't believe I said this was a cure just that I had found this particular device, not much different from the others being discussed, at a somewhat more reasonable price.  Also, I never stated it was marketed solely as a cure for Peyronie's.  Some Doctors are exploring traction as a possibility.  That is all I intended.  Certainly wasn't intended to over-ride, nor counter any other treatments or opinions, or your expertise ComeBackid.
Title: Skepticism is good- Lets investigate the treatments and solutions for Peyronies
Post by: ComeBacKid on June 07, 2006, 06:20:07 AM
SteveW,

My post wasn't meant to attack you or demean you.  Naturally I'm a skeptic American as I believe it is never good to look at things at face value but try to investigate and find out all I can about products or treatments. My posts are only meant to facilitate more though and thinking about a product.  One side of me actually has some faith in these stretching devices, please don't take my posts so offensively or personally, I hope you have sucessful resuts in the use of your traction device.

ComeBackid
Title: Traction and Heat
Post by: Liam on June 07, 2006, 08:21:12 AM
QuoteDr. Carrol was telling me you have to first soften the plaque, trying to stretch a calcified plaque could quickly become a disaster.

I ordered a traction device yesterday.  I plan to use it after heat therapy to "soften" the plaque.  There are also some supplements out there I am looking into.  You guys are familiar with them so I'm not going to try to post them all.  I decided to try this when wantitstr8 said it helped with the "frightened turtle" effect.  The heat part is borrowed from other posts.

My Dr. has me using a VED to prevent post prostatectomy "shrinkage".  I was doing fine with it until the Peyronie's got worse.  My doc is always telling me to "stretch" it out.  WELL........

I, too, am skeptical.  I was given vitamin E and Potaba (say no more) by an expert in the field.  At this point, I am willing to try anything reasonable.



I also plan to exercise some common sense with this experiment.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: wantitstr8 on June 07, 2006, 08:35:41 AM
ComeBackid-

First of all, the participants in the study had non-calcified plaques.  The ability to stretch calcified tissue would be dubious at best.  The test that Dr. Levine is carrying out seems to be fairly limited at this point, frankly, I doubt whether he would risk his good reputation for several thousand dollars in research compensation from a small commercial interest.  The impression that I got is that the only compensation for the study is free devices.

I don't know if this will work or not.  It makes logical sense to me, my Uro seems to think it may make sense, there has been some documented success in the  past...what the hell...I'll give it a shot.  If I can stabilize my situation and buy some functional time until they come up with a "real" cure for this malady then I will view it as time and money well spent.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: wantitstr8 on June 07, 2006, 08:55:33 AM
Liam-

Just a couple things:

1.  I also use heat.  Low to medium setting on a heating pad to get the plaques "warmed up" prior to using the device.  I usually do 5-10 minutes on the plaque in the morning taking special care to avoid the scrotum and glans.  I then fit the device and continue with the heating for another 10-15 minutes with the device in place.  I decided to do this after reading some information regarding hyperthermia.
2.  You need to be aware of circulation.  Remove the device for about 5 - 10 minutes every hour and give the the old unit a couple shakes and some massage to get the blood moving again.  My Doc was insistent about this.   Never sleep with the device (although I don't think falling asleep with this thing in place would be possible).  Make sure you talk to your Doc if you have medical conditions that compromise circulation.
3.  Go slow...Yesterday I added about 1/4 inch to the device because it had become looser fitting...but avoid the temptation to add segments too quickly.  Remember we're not the 17 year old kid trying to add a couple inches for our hot date on Saturday night.  I think this is going to be a very slow and tedious process.  The last thing we want to do is cause more damage.
4.  While it may be uncomfortable, from what i've read this thing shouldn't hurt...listen to your body and adjust as necessary.

I've got another appointment later this week with Dr. Levine...I'll post any tips he might have...
Title: VED and Traction
Post by: Liam on June 07, 2006, 09:55:26 AM
Wantitstr8,

Good advice.  I plan to heat, VED, and stretch. 

You know, it would make the decision to try a traction device (TD) easier if the sellers didn't have such sleazy looking sites.  The babe falling out of her shirt on the video, although nice looking, does not inspire confidence in their scientific expertise.

My VED came from Augusta Medical Systems.  Their site (and support) seem professional.  I wish the same could be said for TD's.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on June 07, 2006, 10:02:36 AM
wantitstr8 ,

Thank you for pointing out the study includes participants with non-calcified plaques, I did not know this or see this listed on any of the posts.  Most people will have some sort of calcification, especially if they've had Peyronies Disease more than two years, and will likely have calcium deposits in different spots.  This would rule out many of us here on the forum it sounds like from restoring lost size, this is an important point.  Dr. Carrol stressed to me that you can't stretch a non-softened plaque, however Old Man has said hes had patients see success using the VED's who had Peyronies Disease for years, it would be hard for their plaques not to be calcified.

Liam- It may be very possible your plaque is calcified and that is why your peyronies disease got worse when you tried the VED on it, Dr. Carrol told me hes seen many people who used the VED without the IONO and came back with worse curves cause they tried to stretch a non- softened plaque.

ComeBackid
Title: Great discussion
Post by: Hawk on June 07, 2006, 02:05:30 PM
Guys,  You have a good discussion going here.  I don't know what could make it better.

Wait a minute, what about if you changed the subject headings to reflect what your post is about!  :D





Thanks to those that rembered.
Title: Sorry, Still Learning the Ropes
Post by: wantitstr8 on June 07, 2006, 06:55:33 PM
Hawk-

Only been here for a few days...I'll get it right sooner or later...
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on June 08, 2006, 06:01:01 PM
I have been away and busy for a few days. I am impressed by the thoughtfulness and dedication that you all bring to this topic. I learn more reading here than I do scanning OVID or PUBMED. To me, the traction devices present the benefit of a more prolonged pull on tissue, but the deficit of reduced blood flow to the glans, or the area where the ring "attaches" to the head of the penis. As my plaque extends right up to the head of the penis, I would worry that this would make that part worse for me, while stretching longer the rest of it.

It makes sense that this fibrotic tissue can be made to be longer. I am interested in the improvement in ED - which goes back to questions of either psychology or blood flow in general.

Tim
Title: Traction device so far...
Post by: SteveW on June 08, 2006, 10:31:49 PM
As stated, I just received my traction device.  First try was not good.  It was uncomfortable, penis kept slipping back through the retainiing ring, which hurt.  No at all impressed, until I used the gauze (which the manufacturer recommended and supplied) and all is better.  Have spent 4 hours in the device in 2 days, and will spend a total of 3 hours with it mounted tonight alone.  It is comfortable, now easy to mount and I can see where the constant tugging might, maybe encourage skin growth and maybe straightening???  I don't expect the traction device to correct the malady or in any way affect the actual (huge mass I have) but if it did serve to somewhat, just maybe reduce the 90 degree curve and prompt my body to grow some skin to correct the dramatic hourglass (wasting) shape of my penis...it just might, maybe be worth a few months experimentation.  Couldn't hurt and my Dr. agrees. 
Title: Some traction Hints
Post by: wantitstr8 on June 09, 2006, 08:15:13 AM
SteveW-

I'm not sure which device you purchased but it took me a few days to get used to my Fastsize device (how to put it on, how to take it off, how much tension, how to reduce pinching).  Here are a couple of things that I have learned through research and my own (very brief) experience.  First, the heat seems to help reduce the pulling sensation you sometimes get on the plaque.  I have used heat whenever possible since I got the device and can definately tell a difference between a properly "warmed up" stretch and one that is being done cold.  I abandoned the comfort foam tubes provided with the device...I prefer to call them discomfort tubes.  Instead I now use a strip of gauze wrapped around the silicone tube...greatly improved comfort and holding performance...no more of the slips that I had with the foam.  Avoid the urge to "overstretch" early on...everything I have read says you  need to devote at least 40 hours to getting your little buddy accustomed to the device.  A mild tension has worked best for me during this time.  Take your time putting the device on...make sure you have a good grip on the glans prior to allowing the device to tension...avoids painful pinches.  Go slow taking the device off...especially if you use the "foam discomfort tubes"...have a nasty habit of sticking to the skin.  Make sure you take the 5-10 minute breaks every hour.  By it's very nature the device will limit circulation and none of us want anything falling off.  During the break give the little fella enough massage to insure you have some oxygenated blood back in the glans...personally, I make sure any coldness is gone before I put the device back on.  I have broken my "sessions" into two parts, one in the morning and one in the evening...up to about 3 total hours each session.  Some mild soreness is supposed to be normal, but everything I have read says this should not be painful...personally I have some transient discomfort around the glans after the 3 hours.  Most of this is skin irritation from the silicone tube...I went out and purchased some vitamin E oil and apply it to the skin to keep everything moisturized...seems to be working well.

As far as results are concerned, I have noticed that the distressing "frightened turtle" effect is less pronounced and less frequent.  I do not yet have any quantifiable change in curvature, however, I had some fun with the wife last night and the little guy performed as well, or better, than he has since this distressing little problem started.  Of course I'm not saying this has anything to do with the traction device...I'm throwing everything but the kitchen sink at this problem...but any improvement...even anecdotal...is a big confidence booster.  Good luck and let me know if you stumble across any secrets as you use the device....thanks...

*edited to provide a descriptive title*
Title: Thanks for Honesty
Post by: Liam on June 09, 2006, 09:16:54 AM
wantitstr8 and stevew,

Thanks for the posts.  I have read around on the subject and yours seems to be the most honest and straight (we hope soon) forward.  I should be getting mine soon and feel ahead of the game.
Title: Exoextender used to increase penis size
Post by: ComeBacKid on June 09, 2006, 06:27:23 PM
While researching the internet I found this article from the top of the line mayo clinic.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/penis/MC00026

"Because pumps draw blood into the penis and make it swell, they're useful in the treatment of impotence.  This may create an illusion of a larger penis, but results are seldom permanent.  Repeated use can damage elastic tissue in the penis, leading to less firm erections."

It will be very interesting to see the published results of the study done by Dr. Levine using these penis extending devices, I don't believe there is any credible doctor who has ever published a study that says these devices or any device can increase the size of ones penis.

ComeBackid
Title: Mayo Clinic and FDA
Post by: Liam on June 09, 2006, 07:33:09 PM
This is a link to the FDA's page related to VEDs.  I found this warning.  Aggravation of existing medical conditions such as Peyronie's disease, priapism, and urethral strictures .

Notably absent was any mention of damage to elastic tissue leading to less firm erections (Mayo Clinic) unless this is a poor discription of Peyronies Disease.

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/ode/guidance/1231.html
Title: VED No Mention of Peyronies Disease
Post by: Liam on June 09, 2006, 08:36:58 PM
I also seem to remember Soma-Correct VED was originally marketed for Peyronies Disease.  Now, there is no mention.   Hmmmmm.  Pieces are starting to come together.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices/FDA site on safety in use
Post by: Old Man on June 09, 2006, 09:16:23 PM
Note to all:

Just finished reading the link posted below pertaining to the FDA regulations/recommendation relative the use of manual and battery powered VEDs.

If one reads this page closely, you will see that the recommendations contained therein are basically what I have been stating all along on the old Peyronies Disease forum as well as this new one about the use of VED for ED/Peyronies Disease.

Also, the recommendations are stated to be just that and are not binding on anyone to comply in the use of VEDs. However, common sense should be brought into play when and if one chooses to use the VED for Peyronies Disease as well as ED. The cautionary notes contained therein relating to further trauma and/or injury are exactly what I have said to any and all about VED use in the past. I have repeatedly stated that if any pain or discomfort exists, stop using the device immediately and determine the cause of these effects.

There are some individuals with certain severe Peyronies Disease symptoms that should not and can not use the VED for Peyronies Disease therapy. So, bottom line, before one starts using a VED for either ED or Peyronies Disease, they should be absolutely certain that it is approved by at least their GP and preferably by their uro. Again, only a good medical quality VED should be used, which is and will be my recommendation for anyone.

Good luck to any all in this regards,

Old Man
Title: 5 1/2 hours in traction
Post by: SteveW on June 09, 2006, 09:42:07 PM
I have spent a total of 5.5 hrs in the device.  Which "they" refer to as "mounted."  Odd word choice.  BWTH.  So, I thought a few thoughts and comments about my experience so far might be appropriate here:

1)  The "comfort band" isn't.  Don't even bother trying without the gauze or some padding.
2)  The required band tightness at my head is uncomfortable, but not a hindrance to use of the device.
3)  My glans becomes cool and purple (blue?).  Lack of blood flow.  1 Hour stretches probably max right now.
4)  I can't pee while "mounted" in the device.  Too much restriction from the band.
5)  Odd, but my testicles contract.  What's that about?
6)  Wantitstr8 was very right...pre heating made a huge difference this evening.

Wantitstr8...I appreciate your input and look forward to more info and guidance.  Thanks!
Title: Re: 5 1/2 hours in traction
Post by: Hawk on June 09, 2006, 10:49:23 PM
Quote from: SteveW on June 09, 2006, 09:42:07 PM
5)  Odd, but my testicles contract.  What's that about?

Is this device pulling all the loose skin shared by the testicles?
Title: Ecoextender not for everyone
Post by: ComeBacKid on June 09, 2006, 10:49:41 PM
I'm betting that Dr. Levine has bought the theory that the plaque can be stretched and this is why hes involved with the ecoextender trials.  The website claims penis enlargment and market their product for everyone, however I don't think if you have a normal corpus cavernosum you can stretch that and make it bigger.  Old Man has stated several times the VED's will not make a normal persons penis larger, but it can and will in some cases make your penis bigger and straighter if you have Peyronies Disease.  The fibrous tissue is definately different tissue than the corpus cavernosum which I think it is proven cannot be enlarged.  I did talk to a guy who wore a device on his penis for a few hours everyday and regrew a foreskin for half coverage on his glands, improving his sexual sensation and curing his ED.  The constant force caused the skin cells to divide and grow overtime, seems like the ecoextender could do the same thing.  I buy into the idea of stretching out that plaque permanently, however I just don't like the fact that the website seems to promote the device for anyone looking to enlarge their penis, not just to stretching out plaques for Peyronies Disease patients.  Their calculate your size calculater seems kind of cheesy, and common sense tells us if you can expand your penis, we all wont at the same rate, so to me it seems like rubbrish.  However I am buying into the fact that he plaque can be stretching out and made bigger permanently, I still don't buy into penis enlargment for normal healthy corpus cavernosum and there is not one single study I know by any credible urologist that shows any device can make the penis bigger permanently in a safe manner.  The results of the Levine study should be very interesting

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: SteveW on June 09, 2006, 11:01:54 PM
If you don't think the device, process or treatment is suitable.  Don't do it.  Other men may feel it might be worth a try.  So we shouldn't chastize or criticize any other mans attempt or experimentation.  Support? 
Title: Cheezy Claims
Post by: Liam on June 09, 2006, 11:26:40 PM
I remember when VEDs were only advertised the way traction devices are today.  Also, of you look at these "penis pills", many have l- arginine.  L-arginine has proven therapeutic benefit as we all know.

My point is we have to hold our noses and look past the hype.  I predict (putting on my Swami hat) more studies on traction devices will pop up showing at least limited benefit.  Then these companies, or new companies, will try to put a professional face on the industry.  The FDA will put guidelines down and prices will go up.

I'm having a curmudgeon moment!  >:(
Title: Does it work...Who knows...
Post by: wantitstr8 on June 10, 2006, 12:36:36 AM
Look guys...does the traction device enlarge your pecker?  personally I couldn't care less...I'm a little more focused right now on attempting to fix a rather  distressing problem with a funky looking "little friend".  Two  scientific studies (that I'm aware of) in Europe have shown some promise that these devices can reduce existing curvatures that derive from Peyronies Disease.  My Uro, Dr. Levine, a well renowned and well respected Peyronies Disease specialist seems to think these devices warrant a closer look.  Personally, I'm throwing everything I can at this thing...Somacorrect, Pentox, Arginine, Neprinol, Vitamin E, Hyperthermia, Verapimil injections (today was my 5th set), and the Fastsize device.  I pay very little attention to the marketing strategies of these companies...the concept of traction seems to make sense to me...that's all I really care about.  If I end up straighter and the same diminished size I am right now...I'll be fine with that.  If I end up straighter and back to original size, that's even better.  If I end up straighter and bigger, I'm buying their stock.  I don't know if these devices work for penis enlargement...I'm hoping they work to reduce curvatures.

So, the jury is still out...my (very premature) results are encouraging...but it is my opinion is that no reliable objective evidence yet exists that demonstrates their efficacy.  For those adventuresome soles who want to try an uproven treatment...and have some money to throw at it...they may want to consider this option.  Others will think it is hokey and a waste of time and money...of course, they will probably end up being right.  For me, I've got more money than sense and I'm willing to roll the dice that this may prove to be an effective symptomatic treatment of this condition.  I think in 6 months, when Dr. Levine publishes his results we will all have a much better indication of whether these devices can help...of course, I want to be ahead of that curve.

By the way, I spoke to Dr. Levine today and he said the treatment that holds real promise (he mentioned this at my last visit) is in fact the Collagenase treatment.  He said he is currently working together with several doc's to develop the trial protocol.  Looking like the end of this year...
Title: Why not..........
Post by: SteveW on June 10, 2006, 01:12:39 AM
Wantitstr8, I agree.  I can afford to buy the device and I am willing to devote the time to give traction a try.  I've been through the Vit E, Virapamil topical, Verapamil injections and the "wait and see, it often resolves itself" prognosis...this just seems to be the next step in my process.  It very well may not work.  BUT, if traction served to only moderately reduce the wasting and curve, by let's say 10%, then I think it worth the effort.  At this stage, I am willing to explore just about any option.  It may very well come to it, but I certainly don't want to consider surgery and a mechanically produced erection to be the only option. 
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Liam on June 10, 2006, 06:15:30 AM
Stevew and wantitstr8,

Amen.  If this were sports, we would be Xtreme

Why not go out on a limb? That's where the fruit is. - Will Rogers
Title: Critical thought on VEDs and stretching devices not criticsim
Post by: ComeBacKid on June 10, 2006, 10:45:48 AM
Guys,

You are missing my point, I"m thinking out loud trying to encourage critical thought on the devices, if you read my post clearly you will see that I do buy into the idea of stretching the plaque for an increase in size, but I do and will continue to raise some questions about other aspects of the VED and stretchers.  I'm not attacking you, just thinking out loud to get others to post what they think, some people here have good knowledge as doctors or bring great experience with them like Old Man.  Everyones input helps us understand things better.  Also as I stated the fact that Dr. Levine is doing a study makes me believe he must think these devices have some merit in stretching the plaque for straightening or to restore some lost size.  I've only expressed doubt that the devices will restore size in someone without peyronies, all of you guys have peyronies therefore I haven't criticised or expressed doubt in your goals.  Please don't take my posts as personal attacks, this forum is for critical thought and will continue to be used in this manner. 

ComeBackid
Title: Man wears Mickey Mouse Ears - Film at Ten
Post by: wantitstr8 on June 10, 2006, 12:23:34 PM
ComeBackid-

I don't think anybody was offended by you questioning the validity of the manufacturers claims about these devices...I know I wasn't.  Quite frankly, they can claim these things will make everybody hang like John Holmes and it wouldn't really bother me.  I only wanted to point out that I am using the device for a completely different reason.  Hell, if there was a scientific study that indicated the problem could be helped by wearing Mickey Mouse ears I'd probably do that too.  Like I said, the jury is still out...we'll know more in about 6 months...
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Liam on June 10, 2006, 12:33:43 PM
A double blind study with a controll group receiving a placebo (Minnie Mouse ears).

I think that will out perform vitamin E, also. ;D
Title: What I think traction might do...
Post by: SteveW on June 10, 2006, 03:03:34 PM
When I spoke to a uro about these types of devices, he was somewhat encouraging.  He said, "give it a shot and let me know."  He doesn't rule out the possible effects of VED's either.  But he said that if I was expecting Traction OR pumping to alter the size and shape of the plaque itself, it was not going to accomplish that.  What these two therapies might do, is to increase the amount of skin and tissue as well as ligaments by stretching them which hopefully, would help compensate for the curve and wasting.  I'm not expecting a 11" penis, but if this experiment served to help the effects of Peyronies Disease at all I'm going for it.  I would just like to have back some of what I used to have.

Edit:  Can we buy mouse ears in bulk?
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on June 10, 2006, 03:43:05 PM
I'm still confused as to how the ecoextender can increase girth, I see how it might if working properly increase the penis in length, but how can it increase in girth?

ComeBackid
Title: Tissue growth?
Post by: SteveW on June 10, 2006, 08:29:32 PM
If a certain part of the body is exposed to a constant, permanent stretch, the cells in that area begin to divide and multiply, thus increasing the tissue mass. Maybe? 
Title: Traction Device
Post by: Liam on June 10, 2006, 08:42:26 PM
Got mine today.  Have worn it for about 3 hours (with hourly breaks) so far.  Not too bad.  I think the real test will be how I feel tomorrow.  Will update.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: SteveW on June 10, 2006, 10:16:15 PM
Liam,
You should feel fine tomorrow.  I have had no lingering ill effects.  Just don't "over stretch" the first times we use it, according to everything I can find on the subject.  Ease of use and comfort level has improved hourly as I learn to mount and use the device.  Good luck.  BTW, I am keeping a detailed spreadsheet of date, time and my impressions for each session.  Could prove useful to someone down the road.
Title: Re: Tissue growth - Stretching Scar tissue?
Post by: Hawk on June 10, 2006, 10:17:37 PM
Quote from: SteveW on June 10, 2006, 08:29:32 PM
If a certain part of the body is exposed to a constant, permanent stretch, the cells in that area begin to divide and multiply, thus increasing the tissue mass. Maybe? 

In our "Resource Library" the documents on scarring discuss stretching scar tissue (I may have read it elsewhere.  There seem to be some debate on whether stretching burn scar tissue actually increases cell numbers or thins and stretches existing cells.  I am not sure this is a huge issue if it works.

I do recommend you read those reports because they give many tips about dealing with scar tissue.  Stretching is effective but stretching before wound healing actually increases scar tissue.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Liam on June 10, 2006, 10:45:54 PM
Thanks Steve,  I think I'll keep records, too.  I am encouraged by initial use (4 hours).  No real problems.  I've already learned to keep the foreskin out of the noose ;).

Hawk,  off to the library.  Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Scar Therapy Notes
Post by: Liam on June 10, 2006, 11:06:50 PM
Found this.  Not about Peyronies Disease, but, interesting.

http://harcourtassessment.com/hai/Images/resource/techrpts/TheraNotes/TN_OT_pdf/ScarMgmnt.pdf  Scar therapy notes
Title: Article
Post by: SteveW on June 10, 2006, 11:38:27 PM
Liam,
Thanks for the link.  Would some of these same stretching-exercise recommendations and conclusions not also apply to our condition?  We can hope.

Don't have the foreskin issue to deal with here...damnit.

But I do have a question Liam and/or any other traction users.  Does your glans turn purple and become very cool to the touch while in the device?  I have to tighten down quite a bit, since I also don't have a large glans or ridge to help.
Title: Take it Easy - Traction Device
Post by: wantitstr8 on June 11, 2006, 01:54:52 AM
No offense guys but my unsolicited advice would be to slow down a little.  This is a very long process...jumping in with 4 hours in the rack on the day you receive it seems a bit excessive and potentially dangerous.  I really think you need to take a little time to get accustomed to the device.  Find out what your body will take...make sure you remove the device and get blood flowing.  Cinching the thing down tight enough to turn the glans purple doesn't sound right...it does sound dangerous.  We all have enough problems without aggravating the condition.  Do what you want, but it's taken me two weeks to get to the point where I know enough to use the device for a total of 4 hours per day.  Please go slow...these things can be dangerous!
Title: Purple- Traction Device
Post by: Liam on June 11, 2006, 05:34:48 AM
No purple here.  I check periodically.  I noticed the glans was cooler to the touch and readjusted several times.  The stretch I am applying is very minimal at this point.  be that is the reason for no purple.  I had only planned to wear it 2 hours, but had no complications so wore it 3.  I had to attend a wedding.  After the wedding, I came home and used it another hour. 

I also got the topical l-arginine spray.  Just tested a small area for allergy or sensitivity, first on the underside of my arm.  All is fine.  Will post more (under the proper heading) on this subject after I really try it.
Title: Less affected by traction device
Post by: SteveW on June 11, 2006, 07:09:39 PM
I bought ACE self adhering sports bandage.  Made all the difference.  Don't need to cinch the strap down as tight since the tendancy to slip back through the strap is reduced.  While he still gets a little "cool" to the touch, I am seeing very little color change of my glans.  Now I can even pee with it on!  This seems doable!
Title: Re: SteveW - Athletic Wrap & Traction Device
Post by: Liam on June 11, 2006, 09:12:26 PM
Great idea SteveW.  I have tons of the stuff.  I also thought about lambs wool.
Title: Traction Device
Post by: SteveW on June 12, 2006, 11:47:56 PM
As of today, 17 hours in traction.  Not too difficult.  Not really painful.  No negative after effects.  40 hours seems to be a benchmark for analysis.  So, in about another week, I'll report more detailed information.  If ya'll wanna' hear it.  I know some are negative and skeptical about this treatment (?), but if it should, maybe on the outside make a difference...it beats the hell out of a surgeon taking a knife to my dick.
Title: Questions about Traction Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on June 13, 2006, 12:05:21 AM
SteveW,

How does the traction device work when you get erections while wearing it?  It says on the webiste that it expands and just falls off?  I don't understand this if it is already stretching your flaccid penis and tight around the head. 

Do you have to remove it once an hour?  Is it noticeable under like jeans at all?  You can urinate in it?  How many hours per day are you supposed to wear it to get results... 8 hours?

How much size lenght and girth have you lost in flaccid and erect sizes so far since having peyronies?

ComeBackid
Title: Re: ComeBackid's questions
Post by: SteveW on June 13, 2006, 12:25:51 AM
Quote from: pudder135 on June 13, 2006, 12:05:21 AM
SteveW,

OK, here goes.............

How does the traction device work when you get erections while wearing it?  That has happened while I am wearing it awake.  I don't sleep in the device, so I can say what would happen then, but getting hard while wearing the unit (usually during the mounting process) presents no problems and just presents a stronger feeling of being stretched.

It says on the webiste that it expands and just falls off?  I don't understand this if it is already stretching your flaccid penis and tight around the head. I think they are referring to sleeping in the device.

Do you have to remove it once an hour?   That is the recommended time frame.  But for my 2nd session I wore it 2 hours straight tonight with no ill effects.

Is it noticeable under like jeans at all?   I have not tried to wear the device under clothes and can't imagine that it could be hidden.

You can urinate in it?  Yes, I can pee while wearing the contraption. 

How many hours per day are you supposed to wear it to get results... 8 hours?   Well, my reading suggests 4 hrs per day minimum if you are stretching for the treatment of Peyronie's.

How much size lenght and girth have you lost in flaccid and erect sizes so far since having peyronies?   Erect, I have lost about 1.5" in length and half my girth since the onset.  To give you an idea, erect I measured 6" around at the mid point of my penis prior to Peyronies Disease and 7" or so length wise.  Now, on a good day I am lucky to raise a 6" erection.
ComeBackid
Title: very early results from traction
Post by: wantitstr8 on June 13, 2006, 09:15:39 AM
ComeBackid-

I have now put in about 50 hours in the device...Here is what I have found so far:

1.  Erect length - I have "found" about 1/4 inch of my lost length.  I went from 6.75" down to about 5.5" after getting Peyronies Disease.  After wearing the device for 50 hours I now measure a solid 5.75".
2.  Erections seem to be of better quality. 
3.  Bend has been reduced from about 45 degrees to about 35-40 degrees (some of this is subjective).
4.  No noticeable change in the size of plaques.
5.  Turtle effect is gone.
6.  Everything seems looser and more pliable.
7.  No evident change in Girth, however, better erections seem to "fill" better.

Device is tolerable, not comfortable.  It can be worn under loose fitting clothing, however, you need to have the ability to "adjust" the device quickly (occaisional pinches and slips).  You need to do some skin care daily, I use vitamin E oil.  Currently wearing the device for about 6 hours per day.  I do hourly breaks.  I cannot urinate with the device in  place.

These results are very premature and I expect to spend the next 6 - 12 months in the device to determine how effective it really is.  Also, I'm not sure if these results are permanent or temporary.  I can say that the stretching may be providing some short term results.  Also, I continue a regimen of Pentox, Arginine, Neprinol, Verapimil injections, and vitamin E...so I can't say the results derive from the stretching device.  However, I am encouraged enough to continue the treatment for now.
Title: Re: Traction Device
Post by: ComeBacKid on June 13, 2006, 12:20:42 PM
Wantitstr8, SteveW,

Have you guys noticed any side effects?  Have you noticed a feeling to have to urniate while wearing the devices or urinating more often than usual? 

What do you mean in reference to the turtle effect?  I don't know what you mean by this.

ComeBackid
Title: Response to ComeBackid
Post by: wantitstr8 on June 13, 2006, 04:40:24 PM
No side effects yet.  Some transient soreness around the glans...I imagine this is normal from the "grip" of the tubing.  Vitamin E oil seems to dispatch with that overnight.  Some soreness (stretched feeling) in the plaque while I am using the device.  Nothing too severe just a pulling sensation, using heat to start the session really seems to relieve that fairly well.  As far as urination is concerned, it doesn't seem to make me feel like urinating any more frequently than normal.  Regarding your question about the "turtle effect" aka the "frightened turtle effect".  Tap on a turtles shell and watch his head...same thing happened to my pecker when I got Peyronies Disease...rather distressing...glad to see it is now gone.  The little fella is hanging like he used to...I'll take my victories in small steps...
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: SteveW on June 13, 2006, 07:49:34 PM
I have nothing I would consider negative side effects.  Today makes time "in the rack" at 20 or so hours.  I actually think the little guy enjoys it.  Like wanitstr8, I feel a tugging on the mass itself and my glans is somewhat sore after a session, but nothing severe or lasting.  The retention band which holds the head of my penis is of a curved shape and is almost an inch wide and may serve to improve the comfort level since the restriction is spread over a larger area.  Supposition on my part.  As my mounting skills and degree of tightening has improved, so has my comfort level.  I was working on a project last night, and overshot the hour break by 30 minutes.  Forgot to check the time and felt fine.
Title: Question for stretchers...
Post by: SteveW on June 13, 2006, 08:45:30 PM
Wanitstr8 and any other users...
I just went downstairs wear my stretcher and tried a little experiment.  Pulled on boxers and my suit pants, like I normally wear to work.   HA HA HA HA HA !!!  Anyone else have experience wearing their machinery under their clothes?  Like no one would see what was hanging down my leg. 
Title: Re: Traction Device
Post by: Hawk on June 13, 2006, 08:52:46 PM
SteveW,

Just make sure it doesn't fall out you pants leg and get kicked across the room as you are walking into a board meeting.  It could sidetrack discussion on the entire agenda  ;D

I apologize for the humor but my mind just sees this a scene from a comedy where someone picks it up, examines it for several seconds, and hands it back with a question and a quzzical stare, as about a dozen business types sit waiting for a response.  There is no doubt in my mind that if it could happen, it would happen to me.  I think I would wear a long shoe string around my ass as a safety belt.

I think I just had the best laugh I have had in weeks.  I think this may have actually happened to me in a former life.


Marked for deletion for humor unbecoming an administrator
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: wantitstr8 on June 13, 2006, 09:20:55 PM
Actually, I wear it at work and haven't had any problems (other than investing $100 in some new jeans).  We have a casual office so suits aren't required.  You just need to get the right underwear to keep it securely plastered to the leg.  Also need to make sure you have access to a place to go if you have a moment of "traction urgency"...doesn't happen very often, but when it pinches...you need to get it adjusted quick.  The only drawback I have seen so far is that it is very distracting when you are wearing it.  Also, by the time the hour is up, you are pretty much ready to get it off...caught myself a couple times watching the clock.  I've graduated to a little heavier traction and keeping it on for a full hour takes a little more commitment.  Not sure if I'm going to be able to get to the 1200 grams of traction they suggest.
Title: That Takes Care of That...
Post by: SteveW on June 13, 2006, 09:23:34 PM
Hawk,
Well, that takes care of my temptation to wear the contraption to work !!!!  

HA
HA
HA
HA

Laugh it up funny guy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: SteveW on June 13, 2006, 09:27:20 PM
Wear it under jeans?!?!?!?!  You've got bigger ones than I do!  How the he*l to you sit down???  Are you a masochist?
Title: How do you sit down?
Post by: wantitstr8 on June 13, 2006, 09:49:30 PM
How do you sit down?  VERY CAREFULLY!  You need to get really loose jeans and tight stretch boxers...pin that little bugger to the leg and try not to move too much.  Of course driving is the real challenge...need to be real careful and go real slow, cant imagine the reaction of the trauma team when they cut away your pants...wtf is THAT!
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Liam on June 13, 2006, 10:04:09 PM
Guys,  I went out in my front yard wearing the device.  It slipped off and out the pants leg.  At  that moment, a female jogger went by.  I was far enough away so it wasn't a problem.  But, it gave me a start.

Title: Re: Securing a traction device under clothing
Post by: Hawk on June 13, 2006, 10:17:37 PM
Oh brother, and I thought I was making an implausable joke about that happening. 

I have a couple pair of BVD's that look like jockey shorts with legs.  You could maybe call them tight legged boxers but I think if you get that style that they would work.  They form fit the leg pretty tight.
Title: 2 to 1
Post by: SteveW on June 13, 2006, 10:18:50 PM
against.  Unless the voting and the funny stories change direction...I'm keeping little bent steve in traction AT HOME.   ;D
Title: Re: Securing a traction device under clothing
Post by: SteveW on June 13, 2006, 10:21:07 PM
Quote from: Hawk on June 13, 2006, 10:17:37 PM
Oh brother, and I thought I was making an implausable joke about that happening. 

I have a couple pair of BVD's that look like jockey shorts with legs.  You could maybe call them tight legged boxers but I think if you get that style that they would work.  They form fit the leg pretty tight.

And would feel like crap.  Think I'll take to wearing loose basketball shorts to work.  Be comfy with the unit in the unit.  AND, it's been nice knowin' ya'll....cuz' one day of dressing like that and I won't be able to afford broadband anymore.   :-\
Title: Traction Device - Calcified Plaque
Post by: ComeBacKid on June 13, 2006, 11:34:19 PM
Guys,

You are all using the ecoextender right?

Did you all get ultrasounds to confirm that you have no plaque calcifications at all?  Someone had previously stated that all the participants in the Dr. Levine study have non calcified plaques, is the theory that if your plaque is calcified the device won't work?  I personally have had my disease for 7 years but don't know if my plaque is calcified or not and wouldn't want to worsen it if I tried the device. 

Any thoughts on this device in regards to plaque calcification and if it still would work or should be tried?  Has Dr. Levine said that your plaque must be non calcified to try?  Wantitstr8, could you ask Dr. Levine about this next time you see him - I think your the person seeing him right?

ComeBackid
Title: Re: Brand name of Traction Device
Post by: SteveW on June 14, 2006, 12:01:19 AM
Quote from: Hawk on June 13, 2006, 11:46:54 PM
I thought they were all using the "Fastsize" model

Nope.  I am wearing the "Ecoextender" right now.  I looked at all the devices I could locate while contemplating this exercise...and they were all just about the same.  I went with the "Eco" because 1) I found a good deal and 2) the tension band (the part that holds your unit in the unit) looked to be more comfortable.  Otherwise, all of these pieces of medievel hardware, are similar and work on the same basic principal.  Given everything I have read, it's six of one and half a dozen of another. 
Title: ComeBackid
Post by: SteveW on June 14, 2006, 12:21:32 AM
ComeBackid,
Yes I am calcified.  Yes it is confirmed. 
I have repeatedly defined and expressed and answered your questions regarding stretching.  You do not approve nor even consider it a viable treatment.  That is perfectly ok.  But please, I am just trying to convey, share and impart information, experience and thoughts, some of which are emotionally based for what might be to the benefit of the group.  I am not, for the very last time, trying to push, cajole or recommend this treatment to anyone.  OK?

One last time:
I DO NOT EXPECT THE DEVICE TO CORRECT THE PLAQUE ITSELF
IT MAY HOWEVER SERVE TO EXPAND AND PROMPT TISSUE GROWTH AROUND THE PLAQUE
IT MAY HOWEVER SERVE TO REDUCE THE CURVATURE
IT MAY HOWEVER SERVE TO HELP CORRECT THE WASTING
IT MIGHT, MAYBE WHO KNOWS, HELP EVEN SLIGHTLY RECOVER SOME OF MY LOST LENGTH AND GIRTH.

I am NOT advocating the use of this process.  I am NOT recommending it to anyone. 

I DO NOT KNOW, NOR DOES ANYONE ELSE KNOW, FACTUALLY, ABSOLUTELY, BEYOND A SHADOW OF A  DOUBT, WITH MEDICAL ENDORSEMENT AND CERTIFICATION AND ALL CERTAINTY KNOW, GUARANTEE AND CONFIRM BEYOND ALL DISCUSSION AND DOUBT THAT THIS WILL CURE PEYRONIE'S AND MAKE EVERYONES DICK ALL BETTER. 

Please take note that the key words in all of my shared information are "might", "maybe", "hope", etc.  If it offends you so horribly that I am exploring this avenue, I will happily no longer post or share with other afflicted men and will  deny all inquiries and conversations regarding this topic. 

That what you wanted?

Satisfied?

And to answer your next question, YES I am angry at your repeated attacks and negative postings.
Title: SteveW
Post by: ComeBacKid on June 14, 2006, 01:33:47 AM
Wow Dude,

How would you know if I approve or consider it a viable treatment, I'm actually looking into it myself right now.

It does not offend me at all that your exploring this avenue and I never expressed that.  I don't know what post your reading, but you've obviously misread mine. 

None of my posts were attacks or negative, I was simply raising questions for critical thought.  I do believe the possibility of these devices working.

I never accused you of pushing or recommending this treatment to anyone.

Can you not read, I simply posed some questions I asked to see if you knew of the answers, as this is what we do on this forum!

Get yourself together and quit overeacting like a two year old, you've completely misinterpreted my posts.

ComeBackid
Title: ComeBackid
Post by: SteveW on June 14, 2006, 01:38:08 AM
If you say so.
I have tried.
I have made every attempt to explain.
I have sent PM's in response and answered you publicly.
I leave the rest up to you.

Edit:  and btw ComeBackid, I am not reacting like a 2 year old, as you so eloquently stated.


Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Gator on June 14, 2006, 04:31:18 AM
My story and comments:

I developed Peyronies Disease 2 years ago at 55.

Tried various treatments.

At first I had a 40-45 degree bend to the left and hour glass effect.

Shrinkage and turtle effect. Now I hang again.

I started using a VED and occasionally a 'stretching' device.

I now have no hour glass effect, but an upward 20 degree bend. The left bend is gone.

I continue to use the VED and started back on the 'stretcher".

I can have intercourse but seem to be more sensitive and 'get off' earlier than before.

Follow the directions........Do Not try and urinate while wearing the device and remove it every hour. I read where someone wore his for three+ hours. Bad move.

Like cooking ribs.......Low and slow.

Good luck.



Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Liam on June 14, 2006, 08:41:01 AM
I bought the "Maxpullr" off Ebay.  The design is similar.  It cost $55.00 including shipping.  If I stay with this, I will invest in a better one with more bells and whistles.  I figured if i hated it, I would only be out 1/6th of the price of some.  So far no complaints.

BTW, I think I was the one who said I wore it for 3 hours.  But, I did state I took hourly breaks.  I don't think it is a bad idea to restate that point, though.
Title: Traction questions and comments
Post by: wantitstr8 on June 14, 2006, 09:03:48 AM
Just a couple notes:

ComeBackid- I don't know the protocols for Dr. Levine's study regarding calcification.  The European studies all used subjects with non-calcified plaques.  As of my ultrasound about 3 months ago, my plaques were non-calcified.  Levine said I qualified for the trial but did not say anything about whether calcification was one of the parameters he was evaluating.  I opted for the VI and did not participate in the trial.  I have since bought the traction device on my own and begun wearing it.  I have discussed this with Levine and he endorsed the usage...gave me some tips regarding proper use.

Hawk- Levine is using the Fastsize device for his study.  This is the reason I bought this particular device.  As far as I know I am the only one on the board that is using Fastsize.  However, from my investigation, there really isn't a hill of beans of difference between the various contraptions.

Gator-  Can you attribute your improvement to either the VED or the traction device?  or do you think it was a combination of both?  How long did you use the traction device (approximate total hours) to see the improvement?  Did you use or undergo any other treatments?  Any suggestions you might have about usage from your experience?

Thanks...

btw ... some short fuses around here...
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: zigwyth on June 14, 2006, 10:12:38 AM
I have been reading your posts on the traction device topics. Steve, I know we all appreciate your updates and info as we are all in the same boat and most are willing to try just about anything. I personally don't see anywhere, where ComeBackid is attacking or trying to offend you in anyway. ??? We all have a right to be skeptic or concerned about certain treatments as well as form our own opinion. I suggest taking a deep breath and realize this is very emotional for all of us. We are Brothers here, so please, get a grip :D Anyway, I just received the Osbon esteem in the mail and am waiting on a protocol from Old Man. 8) Peace Out-Zig The Twig
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Gator on June 14, 2006, 11:56:22 AM
I used the VED religiously for over 26 weeks and continue to do so 4 to 5 times a week.

I only used the traction device for a couple of months prior to the VED.

I am back using both.

I personally contribute my improvement mainly to the VED.

I do take vitamins.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: SteveW on June 15, 2006, 12:55:38 AM
Gator,
Are you sensing more improvement or positive feelings/results from the dual action, now that you are combining VED and traction? 
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Gator on June 15, 2006, 12:33:33 PM
Steve, it is too early to say since I just started back on the traction last week.

I have been getting more nocturnal erections lately.
Title: Re: Traction and IR
Post by: flexor on June 15, 2006, 02:19:04 PM
Some comments to extend the traction theme. I can't quote the sources, but I understood that:

(a) sustained low level traction would cause the fibres in collagen to align themselves, thus stretching and softening the collagen.
(b) sustained low level heating would cause the fibres in collagen to re-align and soften.

It looks as if (a) is the basis for the extenders.

When we first saw the abstract about the hyperthermia, it appeared that (b) was the basis.

However, if you read the full report (in the library),

"a penile applicator with support is used to maintain the penis in an extended position, and to position the thermocouple on the plaque to be treated. The supports are also designed to protect the testicles from electromagnetic wave damage"

Does this mean that the penis is just held straight, or was it under some form of traction? (Note the word 'extended' If so, it may be that the researcher has missed a point. Instead of "hyperthermia is a better treatment than verapamil", maybe is should be "hyperthermia while under traction is a better treatment than verapamil".

Maybe those quys trying the extenders might get a better result if they were to also apply some heat in line with the hyperthermia report.
Title: Heat and Traction
Post by: Liam on June 15, 2006, 04:15:52 PM
Flexor,  Great post.  I am going to reread the article.  I have been using a heating pad while wearing traction when sitting.  I was just trying to save time.  I also use topical l-arginine while in traction.  Come to think of it, I do many things while in traction (4 hous a day).
Title: Re: Heat and Traction
Post by: SteveW on June 16, 2006, 10:31:31 PM
Quote from: Liam on June 15, 2006, 04:15:52 PM
Come to think of it, I do many things while in traction (4 hous a day).

Not sure we wanna' know! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Liam on June 16, 2006, 10:33:25 PM
heh heh heh
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: hopeful on June 17, 2006, 08:20:01 AM
Gator- my story is similar to yours- now 58- have had for almost 11 months- 35% curve upwards- have been to several so called Peyronies Disease docs- do not trust them- as I felt it was all about money- stil researching IONTOPHORESIS- and am taking enzymes orally and applying a topical enzyme creme-have not been following as I should as I am very depressed-However, I would like to know what VED you are using- and what stretcher device- and where can you buy these.

Thanks,

As I try to remain

Hopeful

Title: Re: Traction and IR (Report)
Post by: hopeful on June 17, 2006, 08:37:21 AM
I would llike to read the report- wher do I find the library??

Hopeful


Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices/along with traction devices
Post by: Old Man on June 17, 2006, 01:11:49 PM
Note to all:

While I have no clinical studies, reports or papers of any kind to support my theory, I will state that one should not use both the traction device and the VED exercises at the same time. Since both afford stretching and/or tension on the penile tissue, using both could cause further damage.

The penile tissue can only stand so much before it breaks, tears or otherwise is damaged. Further damage is not what one needs or wants while trying to get relief from this awful mess called Peyronies Disease. Over stretching can and will lead to further trauma, believe me I know first hand since I did overpump while using the VED in the early stages of my sessions with it.

In my past 52 years plus with dealing with this crazy mess, have gained considerable knowledge of do's and don'ts for therapy and/or treatments.

The above is only my personal observations and is offered only for informational purposes.

Regards to everyone, Old Man
Title: IR report
Post by: flexor on June 17, 2006, 03:50:12 PM
Hopeful.

Go to Homepage.

Click on Resource Library link.

Click on 'Hyperthermia' link.
Title: Thanks Old Man
Post by: Steve on June 18, 2006, 10:05:49 AM
Old Man,

I for one would like to thank you for your experience, knowledge, and experience.  I've been using my VED for a little over a month, and I had my first experience with over-pumping.  Yesterday I got a small (1/8") bruise which could only have been from over-pumping.  Now I know how much is too much.  I'm guessing at your recommendation, but I plan to hold off any further VED treatment until after the bruise has healed.

Again, thanks for your knowledge.

Steve
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices/overpumping pressyre
Post by: Old Man on June 18, 2006, 02:12:52 PM
Steve:

Always glad to add my 2 cents worth. Yes, overpumping can and will cause further trauma. You are wise to let the bruising heal all the way before starting again. Pumping at the time of bruising will only add more and will just take longer to heal.

Again, to all, caution is extremely necessary in any form of VED therapy. Also, in using the VED for erections while using the retainer(s), caution should be observed to only pump enough to get as firm an erection desired, but no more. When the retainer is slid off the cylinder a small amount of added pressure usually follows.

Regards to all, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: englishsyr on June 18, 2006, 08:57:01 PM
what does the VED machine do
Title: Re: Englishsyr- VED
Post by: ComeBacKid on June 18, 2006, 09:09:27 PM
Englishsyr,

Basically the VED will give you an erection.  For peyronies it seems that conservative use of it over time may stretch the plaque and restore lost size or striaghten out your penis.  Old Man deals with the VED's a lot and perhaps he can post a descriptive summary about it for you on here or you can PM him, hes alwasy willing to help.  They key with the VED's is to take it very slow and if you have ANY pain to stop immediately.  VED treatment for peyronies will not work on everyone and is a slow process.  There is no real scientific evidence to back up VED usage, but Old Man has years of experience with it and is considered credible by most on this forum, and he has stated hes seen people get results with it. 

Dr. Levine in Chicago is doing a study soon with the stretching devices(which are different than VEDs),  we may see more studies being done with the VED, I also believe Old Man told me there is a current study going on with VED's somewhere in the south in Birmingham perhaps?  I don't remember exactly where he said I'm sure he can clarify.

ComeBackid
Title: VED Thoughts
Post by: Tim468 on June 19, 2006, 12:15:58 PM
Some random thoughts and a caution regarding the use of a VED:

I shaved around the base of my penis to effect a better seal with the VED. I discovered that so doing *right* before one applies a vacuum can pull an ooze of blood out of the skin where you just shaved. After a LOT of panic, I realized what had happened, and simply now chose to shave/trim at a time that is at least 6 hours different than when I apply the VED. Shaving does help me get a better seal. So too does using a water based lubricant (such as K-Y, astroglide, Aqua Lube, Wet, Foreplay, or Probe, etc) - vaseline is not as good for the skin IMHO.

Second random thought is that there seem to be two different hypotheses regarding the use of a VED. One use is to improve delivery of blood to the area, and by so doing, reduce inflammatory processes that might flourish under local conditions of hypoxia (low oxygen). Since blood is what carries oxygen to tissue, then it makes some sense that "improving" blood flow would improve oxygenation. A second hypothesis seems to be that it can stretch out tissue that is contracted, and thus preserve length or girth.

Obviously, there are no good data in the literature regarding the VED, or that speak directly to either hypothesis. As a doc, I will say that (based on what I have read) if I reviewed a study with such hypotheses in them I would be tempted to table them for further review, as both hypotheses are sort of "hokey", and not very scientific. But then, neither is my personal hypothesis that has kept me going for a long time, which is "Use it or lose it". I think all of the different VED hypotheses are about as sophisticated as that. Of course, who cares, if it works?

Well, I care! I like what I do to make sense, and so for me the "stretching" hypothesis makes a tad more sense physiologically than does the "hypoxia" hypothesis. That too, is why the use of a stretching device may also make sense (ignore all the "stress realigns the collagen" bunk - I think it is a process of simply stretching out contracted tissue.

Finally, a note for those seeking a "medical quality VED". The markup in the medical field is pretty high, in general, and that rule of thumb seems to apply in this realm also. For instance, the electromotor driven vacuum pump system called Osbon Elite, costs about $450+. The hand pump version of it costs about $350. The chief differentiating quality of these devices (from non-medical brands) is that one can slip a rubber tourniquet off of the end of it and onto the base of the penis. This traps the blood in the penis and allows intercourse for the man with ED.

Since the VED "protocol" we have been suggesting here recommends brief and repeated periods of time under vacuum, AND since applying a tourniquet to the base of the penis may cause injury to that constricted tissue, that particular design is not needed IMHO (unless one plans to use it for ED also, and not just for the "Peyronies Disease protocol"). Thus, a cheaper and good quality tube could work just as well.

Here is an example of an overpriced (IMO) unit available through the internet:

http://www.greatmedicalsupplies.com/supply~Timm+Medical+(OB)~erecaid-system-classic-impotence-pump-1101.htm

Here is what I did:

I ordered a cylinder through a better sex toy company (Good Vibrations). It does not allow me to do a graduated diameter program as described in the "VED protocol", but one could achieve that particular goal by ordering 2-3 different diameter cylinders. Each cylinder is about $45 - $60.

I then ordered a hand pump from a scientific supply store (example: http://secure.sciencecompany.com/Vacuum-Pump-with-Pressure-Gauge-P6489C692.aspx )

My total cost (with some misc pump attachment hardware to connect the pump tubing to the cylinder) was less than $100.

I pump to a negative pressure of about 120 - 150 mm Hg vacuum (I think  - I am at work, and figure I'd better not run home to check this out!). That gets me hard and just a little bit more, where I start to feel a tug on the stricture points.

Just my two (or more) cents worth. Anyone else with any thoughts on optimal vacuum pressures to use?

Tim
Title: Re: Tim - Thoughts and questions on VEDs
Post by: Hawk on June 19, 2006, 01:29:18 PM
Tim,

Like you, it drives me crazy not to have a proper explanation on why something would work.  Unlike you, I don't have the medical background thus I am a bit more susceptible to flawed explanations. 

I have always concluded that a vacuum is a vacuum is a vacuum, regardless if the source is a $500 plastic tube with "Medical Quality" in the ad or if it is a piece of pvc and a partner with good suction  :D

For Peyronies Disease, these have to be the only factors:

1. Degree of vacuum - This should be fairly obvious to a cautious/sensible person, so any VED would do.

2. Forming a good seal - Lubricant should solve this with any type seal

3. Durability - A simple unit has less to break and it can be replaced 5 times for the cost of a just one       "medical" unit.

4. Length of time / frequency - These are user controlled and have nothing to do with the model.

Unless I am missing something, this only leaves graduated tubes, that is if you buy into the benefits of that system.  I think that even that system could be duplicated with little effort.

Question for Tim: You say you bought a cylinder.  Was it just a cylinder or was it an inexpensive VED with a cheap pump already attached which you later replaced?  I cannot figure why a vendor would just sell cylinders?

I would also like to refer members to this post by Angus.  Just click on the quote header
Quote from: Angus on April 01, 2006, 11:31:02 PM
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on June 19, 2006, 01:50:17 PM
I bought a "penis pump" cylinder as the vendor was able to seel them individually, or as part of a kit. I now cannot really recall where I got it from - it might have come from one of the "better" companies, like Boston (?) pumps (cannot recall the names right now!). I think it was in the "parts" section.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices/Medical quality units
Post by: Old Man on June 19, 2006, 06:52:24 PM
Caution note to all about VEDs:

Yes, there are many VEDs on the market by the various makers of "sex toy" stores, over the counter from drug stores and other sources of the same variety.

IMHO, buying these VEDs can and will work just as well as the so called "medical quality" units. However, there is one drawback that most of you are overlooking, and that is the durability of the unit. In my case, I was prescribed the Osbon Esteem manual VED in 1995 shortly after my radical prostatectomy. The surgery was non nerve sparing which left me impotent to the extent of no erections without help. The known pills and the penile injections only gave me more Peyronies Disease symptoms. So, the VED became the weapon of choice for erections for me.

I am not saying that one should buy the VED that I did and use. It does have inserts that can be used to size the cylinder opening to one's physical size to get a good seal. Any unit that has inserts to permit sizing, etc. can be used efficiently. Sizing is one of the most important items to observe in vacuum therapy. Retainer rings used for erections should never, repeat, never be used while doing any vacuum therapy. They are nothing more than a tourniquet to hold the blood in the penis and should NEVER BE LEFT ON DURING SEX LONGER THAN 30 MINUTES BEFORE BEING REMOVED. The three cylinder VEDs also have inserts for sizing and are very good VEDs to use. Cost should not be a factor in getting a device that will work well and give good long term usage.

Now, to sum up my personal observations about purchasing, using and exercising with VEDs. There is an old adage that says "you get what you pay for" and that applies with the purchase of a VED. Durability, warranty, replacement parts and the ease of operation is the main issue when deciding to purchase a VED. If you buy a good unit to begin with, you will have good service for a long time - buy a cheap unit and you will have just that, a cheap unit that won't last.

Now about exercising with the VEDs. Many guys state that they want a vacuum gage to observe the amount of vacuum pulled each time. The best rule of thumb when using any VED is that if you feel any pain or discomfort at any time, you should realize that something is not right and you should find out the cause. Too much vacuum can be felt immediately and also holding the pressure too long can be felt as discomfort, so one should use their common sense about the amount of vacuum used. The gage may or may not give you the protection you are seeking so one must observe caution is using the VED whether or not they have a gage.

Home made VEDs can work just as well as the highest priced "medical quality" units. I have worked with several guys who have made their own units and are having great success with their results. There are posts on this topic that show what one can do with making their own. Take a look at these and PM the maker for help as he has stated he will assist anyone desiring to make their own.

Finally, as I have stated repeatedly on this forum that extreme caution should be observed at all times when using the VED. Use too much vacuum and you will certainly pay for the resulting trauma, I know first hand through trial and error over the past 11 years that I have been using the VED. So, bottom line to any and all, use whatever VED you so desire, but above all, exercise caution in its use.

Regards to all, Old Man
Title: Tim468 et al: Some thoughts on optimal vacuum.
Post by: Angus on June 19, 2006, 08:13:34 PM
Quote from: Tim468 on June 19, 2006, 12:15:58 PM
Some random thoughts and a caution regarding the use of a VED:

Anyone else with any thoughts on optimal vacuum pressures to use?

Tim

    I use VED's with vacuum gauges, but the dials are set up to reflect inches of vacuum Hg instead of millimeters. 25mm= approximately .98 inches, so your maximum Hg of -150mm= -4.9 inches Hg of vacuum. In an early post I reported a maximum -Hg of 5.0 inches that I never exceed. Exceeding -5.0 inches of vacuum produced the tugging sensations and the beginnings of pain and I immediately backed off and released the vacuum and I never exceed -3.5 to -4 Hg of vacuum. Interesting that our converted (mm to inches) never exceed limits are almost identical. I have found that -2.5 to -3 inches Hg of vacuum does the job and that approaching -4 to-5 inches Hg of vacuum is really unneccessary. -3 Hg is in the comfort zone of not causing pain, tugging or other tell-tale signs of over-pumping. For sage advice about dangers of overpumping I refer those interested to read and re-read Old Mans posts regarding VED use. I continue to use the VED's to help maintain the straightening I experienced over time with their continued use.
   The vacuum gauges I installed simply show a visible reference to the amount of vacuum being produced, and I put them on my VED's to satisfy my curiosity about the actual amount of vacuum being produced. Vacuum gauges are certainly not necessary for VED therapy but do give an interesting visual reference about the amount of negative vacuum pressure being used.
   
Title: Pressure
Post by: SteveW on June 19, 2006, 08:17:20 PM
Since all of the gauges, pumps and penis' are different, they may serve better as our personal guidelines and markers for progress and activity with each session.  It's not a contest, but I think they are good as individual reference points.
Title: Re: Liam- traction device usage
Post by: ComeBacKid on June 20, 2006, 12:43:30 PM
Liam,

Have you gotten down the use of your traction device by now?  How many hours are you getting in per day?  Any noticeable results?  I believe your using the model used by Dr. Levine right... the fastsize device?

ComeBackid
Title: Medical quality VED versus cheap/homemade etc.
Post by: zigwyth on June 20, 2006, 01:23:40 PM
The only reason(s) that I got an Osbon Esteem manual is because my Urologist fought and appealed to my Ins. co. for a Medical quality VED. This model is what they provided. I do believe in you get what you pay for, however, in this case and in my field,( industrial equipment maintenance), I was prepared to make my own. Good quality acrylic cylinders of different sizes are available, as well as the handpumps, seals, hosing, etc. If your ins. co. will not cover one, then I personnally see no problem making your own.  Extreme caution is advised, as I found first hand that too much lubricate, not installing the insert to begin with,pumping the shuttle until it almost blasted into outerspace, while sucking the family jewels along for the ride, was a slight mistake.  :oThen I looked at the bottom of the box. There was a some paperwork that read"INSTRUCTIONS". ::) Go ahead and laugh your Ass off Old Man!  :D Zig the Twig
Title: Traction Update
Post by: Liam on June 20, 2006, 01:50:16 PM
I have gotten used to the traction (to a point).  I caught my foreskin under the noose and now have a blood blister.  I didn't notice it until I used my VED much later.  I felt it sting and then investigated.  I am laying off the VED and traction until it heals.

I bought a cheap model off Ebay (Max Pullr).  After getting it I realize the only real difference is the ability to wear it in the up position.  This one limits to the down position.  If I remember right, it was $55 including shipping.  I will probably invest in a model that allows me to wear it up soon.

I am using heat for 35 minutes while in traction.  I am also using the topical l-arginine in conjunction with the heat.

As for results, without sounding crass, my penis is hanging more like it used to.  Are these results permenant?  Time will tell.  Any plaque reduction, which I do perceive, cannot be quantified.  Because of that, I will not claim that any treatment is helping reduce plaque.  I wish I had a way to measure results because I feel there is improvement.  This is of course is subjective.
Title: Careful use of the VED
Post by: Old Man on June 20, 2006, 11:33:47 PM
Zig:

No, I did not laugh my head off, but did get a kick out of the way you stated it! If you remember, I have stated all along not to overpump at any time, read the instructions, watch the video, practice cautiously to begin with and never, but never use too much vacuum pressure. Also, be sure that you use the insert(s) that comes with either the Esteem or the Soma Correct. Most all VEDs have a sizing insert. BTW, if anyone who has the Osbon Esteem model VED and the insert that comes with the unit is still too large, a smaller inner insert is available from the current maker of the units. The cost is about $7.50 plus S&H.

You do need to use enough lubricant on the inside of the cylinder and on the penile shaft to provide a good slippery surface, etc. Never let any lubricant get on the scrotum or as you said, the family jewels will take a tight ride up cylinder alley! Ouch, that can hurt!

Take care and Happy Pumping!  Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Leopold on June 21, 2006, 12:49:53 AM
Is it possible to use a combination of Levine's device and a VED?  When would be a safe time to start using these devices? I have had Peyronies Disease for a little over a week now, and still have pain with an erection.
Title: Re: Leopold
Post by: ComeBacKid on June 21, 2006, 01:54:53 AM
Leopold,

I'm not a doctor but only have my own personal experience to use as a baseline for my advice, I"ve had peyronies disease for 7 years now and counting.

If I were you I would start taking the ACL but I don't know if I would necessarily start using a VED until the plaque stabilized, there is no medical studies or evidence on VED's to say when one should start using one or if they even work.  However, on the other side perhaps using the VED a few times per day to achieve erections could prevent the plaque from worsening or spreading and keep it neutralized.  There is no exact answer to your question, as Liam has stated and myself you have to go with what you feel is best after you read all the facts and other peoples experiences. 

I know I definately would not combine a traction device( what Dr. Levine is studying) and a VED, and I believe Old Man has warned against this.  I would do one treatment or the other.

Have you been diagnosed or seen a urologist yet?  Most will just tell you to take vitamin E which has no studies to back it up, or prescribe you potaba which many people report has done nothing.

L Arginine is another pill that people have been talking about lately, I believe it increases bloodflow to the penis.

ACL Info (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetyl-L-carnitine)

L- Arginine Info (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-Arginine#Function)

ComeBackid
Title: Traction and VED
Post by: Liam on June 21, 2006, 09:10:59 AM
Before you try anything, see a Urologist for a diagnosis.  I don't like going to go to the doc with the rubber glove either, but there are some things worth going about.  It saved my life ;D.

Myself, I use both.  My rationale is they are working in two distinct ways. 

Traction is simply a mechanical stretch hopefully preventing shrinkage.  It seems it may also be used in conjunction with heat therapy.

VED works on the (simply put) hydraulics :).  Getting blood into the penis.  The original VED design for Peyronies Disease had different sized cylinders.  It seemed to force the penis straight(er) while erect.  I have not seen this design in a while and it is not the one I have.  I suspect it has something to do with FDA approval.

I use mine for ED.  Studies show it helps. My uro says to stretch out the Peyronies Disease with the VED.   He does not yet know of the traction device.

Here is a list of the supplements I take.

L-Arginine
L-Carnitine
L-Citrulline
Ginko Biloba
Korean Red Ginsing
DHEA

I cannot show a  direct cause and effect, but, since I have been taking them, significant night time erections have returned as well as some blood flow (not quite an erection) upon arousal.  I will continue to take these :).
Title: Re: Traction & VED's used together.
Post by: Hawk on June 21, 2006, 10:26:03 AM
Since we have little in the way of clinical evidence for VED's or traction devices, we clearly have nothing but logic to help us guess if they should be used together.  Unfortunately that logic has to be based on very limited facts and is subject to be flawed.

My potentially flawed logic tells me that the huge advantage of traction is the extended period of time with very gentle stretching.  This is as opposed to a bit more intense stretching by a VED for a drastically shorter time.  Actual stretching time by a VED amounts to no more than 10 minutes out of a 1440 minute day.  That is assuming that you use the VED 3 times per day with a pump and release routine.  If I were a tibesman and wanted to stretch a lip or other body part, I believe constant gentle stretching would prevail over intensified stretching several minutes per day.

The possible advantage of a VED is just a few more minutes of stretching which I see as no more of a threat than using the traction device a bit longer (which is recommended) or using the VED a bit more regularly.  Of course the VED must still be used gently and cautiously.  The VED may also make a contribution to lateral of diameter stretching and it could contribute very minimally to oxygenating the penis in individuals that can never get an erection.

I will once again bore everyone with my thoughts on VED's and oxygenation.  First , Dr. Mulhall says that a VED does absolutely nothing to oxygenate the penis since it draws only oxygen depleted venous blood back into the penis.  Unless the N. O. process is activated by drugs or natural sexual stimulation, the arterial walls are constricted.  When a vacuum is applied it does nothing to cause the relaxed dilation of the arterial walls.  Thus, the vacuum causes the blood to flow back through the far less resistant path of the relaxed, expanded veins.  If Dr. Mulhall is correct in his statement, and unless someone can show evidence that the above explanation is wrong, then we must depend on daytime or nighttime erections for oxygenation. 

For arterial oxygenation purposes, it matters not if the erection is natural or enhanced by an ED drug or trazodone.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Leopold on June 21, 2006, 10:42:15 AM
Thanks for the responses. I have not seen a uro yet because I don't have health insurance and don't want to be officially diagnosed until I do get insurance.  I don't see what  a uro can do for me though, from my reading they don't do a thing but tell you what you already know. Not interested in penis injections either. I am taking vitamin E, Acetlyl-L Carnatine, alleve, and waiting on a order of cipro I ordered off the internet. Someone on another forum told me to take that and it might help.

I plan on getting both of the devices above also, I am going to be proactive as I can to fight this condition.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices/original design of the VED
Post by: Old Man on June 21, 2006, 02:14:26 PM
Liam:

Need to add my two cents to your post about the original design of the VED. Don't know where you got your information, but the original design of the VED was only one cylinder. It was designed by a medical assistant in a medical supply house who developed Peyronies Disease and was searching for answers to his problem.

This crude device consisted of only a plastic/glass tube with sizing inserts to fit his penis and a bicycle pump rigged so that it simply pushed a baffle into one cylinder thereby creating a vacuum on the opposite side. Later, it was redesigned into what we have today with single and multiple cylinders, gages, hand pumps, battery powered pumps and other variations, etc.

Do appreciate your comments about the use of VEDs whether or not they or pro or con. In this struggle for help with Peyronies Disease, no stone can be left unturned until some sort of breakthrough is obtained. So any and all comments are welcome.

Regards, Old Man
Title: VED Design
Post by: Liam on June 21, 2006, 03:10:52 PM
Old Man,
Original was a bad choice of words.  I guess I should have said an earlier model.  The sizing inserts are what I tried to describe (not very well).  When I first got mine a year ago, I went to the Augusta Medical site and saw the model designed for Peyronie's.  I went back recently and there is no mention of Peyronies although I think that model is still there (SomaErect-Rxâ„¢ SomaCorrect ®).  I looked it up,copied and pasted :).  I have seen warnings by the FDA not to use VED if you have Peyronies Disease.  Thats why I think the description of the product had to be changed.  This is all speculation.  But , I know there was once a reference to Peyronies Disease on that site and there is no longer.

I always enjoy your posts.  Having a year of experience, I appreciate your insights.  I wish I had found this site a year ago.

Liam
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on June 21, 2006, 09:04:39 PM
Oh so the FDA warns against usage of a VED if you have peyronies disease?

ComeBackid
Title: FDA, VED, & P D
Post by: Liam on June 21, 2006, 10:36:16 PM
ComeBackid,

Look at #3: Risks To Health

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/ode/guidance/1231.html


This does not mean I believe it.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Barry on June 22, 2006, 01:51:28 AM
The awesome advantage we have at the PDS is that we are a very active and open forum. This having been said, a lot of information is exchanged regarding Peyronies Disease treatments. However, the final decision to use any treatment is solely the decision of the patient/member. In turn that persons results can be posted and we can use that information to our benifit.

IE: Most of the top uros can't decide what treatment is the "right" treatment, so we have to decide for ourselves what we are willing to do and not, keeping in mind that what worked for me will not necessarily work for another. VED's for example,Old Man is a very dear and long time friend, I have not however taken on a warm and fuzzy feeling to use a VED, although he is the un-disputed VED guru. This decision does not reflect my personal feelings of Old Man, I am just not ready for that treatment yet or maybe never. We must all choose what our personal comfort zones are and act on them where treatments are considered.

Most of all..........we must communicate our actions and thoughts to our fellow sufferers and do so with no shame or regrets. Not one of us asked or wanted to be on this forum but here we are and I am elated that so many have so much to share and I hope that this openess will not only continue but increase as we find our way to speak from our hearts the ebb and flow within us.

I have had Peyronies Disease for 12 very long years and I don't know how I would have managed without your eyes and ears.

Thanks to all for letting me ramble on, and a Special thanks to another dear friend, Hawk, who gave me a place to do so.

Warm Regards,
Barry Farley/aka/PDFTD   

   
Title: Amen Barry and Clarification
Post by: Liam on June 22, 2006, 07:55:27 AM
Barry

Well said!  Nothing more to add.


:)
Title: VED, P D, FDA, & CYA
Post by: Liam on June 22, 2006, 08:00:40 AM
My earlier post was meant more as indictment of the FDA and the medical community as a whole for not recognizing the already well established use of the VED as a legitimate treatment for Peyronies Disease.  The FDA warning reminded me of the warning on coffee cups, "CONTENTS MAY BE HOT".  ;)  It looks like a case of CYA.

Kinda like throwing out a bunch of acronyms....OK..... ;D
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Leopold on June 22, 2006, 12:05:31 PM
I put more faith in hands on experience with VED's(oldman etc) than what some desk jockeys at the FDA have to say about it.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: englishsyr on June 23, 2006, 05:17:26 AM
it is time i did something about Peyronies Disease and will be getting a VED machine i dont have Peyronies Disease has bad as a lot here mine looks more like a hour glass then any bad curve so im hoping i have a good chance of getting it to look normal again one can only dream i guess
Title: Re: Englishsyr
Post by: Hawk on June 23, 2006, 08:06:17 AM
Englishsyr,

It is great you are fighting back.

just a question or two,

Is the thin part of the hourglass at the base or further out out the shaft?

Psychologically, sometime looking at any distortion on our own penis causes enough stress to make one lose an erection, but physically can you maintain an erection or has the Peyronies Disease caused erectile dysfunction?

Is the hour glass severe enough to cause buckling (bending at the constricted section) during sex?

I ask mainly to have some idea if you would use a VED only for treating Peyronies Disease or if you would also use it for a useable erection for sex.  I have significant ED (from prostate surgery) that only partially responds to Viagra and I use a VED for sex more often than not and it works great.  My understanding is that the Augusts model cannot be used for sex because it has no retaining ring.  Old Man could answer that question.
Title: Retainers
Post by: Steve on June 23, 2006, 08:56:49 AM
Hawk,

If I can jump in before OldMan replies...the Augusta model (Soma Correct) does ship with retainer rings (a small assortment of sizes and types ship with the unit) so I think that it would be applicable to ED treatment.

Steve
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices/Augusta Soma Correct
Post by: Old Man on June 23, 2006, 12:46:15 PM
Special note on the Soma:

Yes, it does come with the retainer rings for ED. After it was removed from sales for Peyronies Disease use, Augusta started sales only for ED and they then started including the retainers for ED.

The user has to practice putting them on and off the cylinder though. It takes only a little practice to get as good an erection with it as with any other VED.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: englishsyr on June 23, 2006, 05:01:49 PM
hawk
     its just like a hour glass its in the middle does not hurt any more it has a very little bend it just looks strange and that plays on my mind a lot in time i will get over it but untill then i will try new things to get it right
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: roadblock on June 23, 2006, 10:36:35 PM
How many forum members here (that have used a VED for any significant length of time for Peyronies Disease) have experienced an improvement in length/girth that they had previously lost with Peyronies Disease? Obviously, the VED seems to be a very promising and exciting treatment modality, and I'm curious about what the personal experiences of members here have been because I probably trust that feedback here more than any other information out there!
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices; Progress Report
Post by: Mick on June 25, 2006, 08:37:40 PM
Today I completed four months of the Soma Correct.  There have been no observable changes during the past month, as was true of month # 3 also (see previous reports, postings #'s 112, 164, and 204 this thread).  I do believe that the placque continues to taper from the 3/8"  at the base of the penis to almost zero at at the glans.  I am still very happy with the protocol, which I have followed exactly, and as I said last month, will consider the exercise a success even if there is no further change. 

Sorry I don't have more to say this month; see ya on July 25th.

Respy, Mick
Title: Re: VED's/source in UK
Post by: Old Man on June 28, 2006, 11:41:45 AM
General note:

During the past months, I have received PMs, emails and posts asking about a source of the Osbon Esteem VED in the UK.

The manufacturer, Timm Medical Division of Endocare, Inc. is now posting the source of their company in the UK.

The Internet address is: http://www.osbonerecaid.co.uk/

The above carries my usual caveat about my relationship with this company. I am only a user of this VED and have absolutely no monetary interest in their sales or use other than what it has accomplished for me personally and others whom I have worked with on therapy.

Best to all, Old Man
Title: Dr. Levine news article
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 01, 2006, 04:50:33 AM
Hey guys,

Just was surfing the web and found this news article talking about Dr. Levine's study hes doing, didn't remember anyone posting it previously, so I thought I'd pass it a long for all to read.

Dr. Levine Article (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060628/law049.html?.v=60)

I found it interesting that the article states these devices have been used successfully in Europe for years, why were they not used here in the United States?

Can these devices increased length and girth if you don't have peyronies disease?

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices/Levine trials of Fast Size
Post by: Old Man on July 01, 2006, 10:50:55 AM
ComeBackid:

Based on the phone conversations that you and I have had about this subject, you know my position about actually increasing the dimensions of one's penis. There are, of course, certain circumstances where the penis can be restored to its original dimensions by various means. There have been such reports by the many web sites dealing with the various devices and methods of increasing ones size. However, when I have asked for clinical proof of their claims by some on the web, none have offered to send any such data.

In the case of the report in your last post, I viewed the article and it appears IMHO to have some merit for a controlled study. However, keep in mind that the article is centered around the company that produces the Fast Size extender and could possibly be what is called self serving.

I will be the first to accept what these devices can do when clinical proof from a controlled blind study of a goodly number of patients is published. The traction and vacuum devices can and will produce results as I personally know, we just need to have a study done and the results furnished. Since the results of what any VED or other device has not been seen and the result that I accomplished cannot be documented we will just press forward, etc.

In the meantime, until that is done, the rest of us just have to keep trying anything that could possibly assist in the Peyronies Disease problem.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices/ Levine trials of Fast Size
Post by: Mick on July 01, 2006, 11:29:59 AM
Of course it's self serving; it's not a news article but a "press release."  The difference is important to consider.

Mick
Title: Re: Old Man
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 01, 2006, 12:37:45 PM
Kind of reminds me of the last "press release," I read from this little old prescription place down in San Antonio, Texas.  They claimed to have this topical gel, that would penetrate deep into the tissues of the penis and "remodel" scar tissue into a "healthier tissue."  They claimed it had an efficacy rate of 75% or so, and even had a study to back up their claim...  >:(

ComeBackid
Title: Re: Old Man
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 01, 2006, 02:24:20 PM
I do recall our phone conversations Old Man, you told me that you believe you can restore length and girth at least somewhat in people with peyronies by use of the VED slowly over time, however if I'm correct you said if someone who didn't have peyronies was using the VED you do not believe they can enlarge their penis.  This leads me to believe that you believe the VED can stretch out plaque, but not enlarge or grow more tissue or corpus cavernosum cells.  My stance on this issue is pretty much with yours.

Does Augusta Medical Systems have any studies showing efficacy on decreasing peyronies bend or enlarging to previous size (plaque stretching) that you know of?  You had told me they are in the middle of a protocol right now, but you mentioned they did some previous studies. 

*On another note I just want to say that Augusta Medical Systems gave me quality customer service, and had one of their representatives contact me to help me get insurance coverage of 70%.  Mike contacted me and guided me the whole way through, and he called my insurance and pinned them down on coverage, I didn't have to do much at all, after battling MEDCO for coverage of TV and being lied to and scammed, and strung out for a month, Mike got my Soma Correct VED covered for me and fought hard for me, I've never had customer service this good ever from any kind of business. I've sent in the necessary paperwork, will be interesting to see if my insurance covers and comes through on their promise now.  I also want to say I don't endorse the Soma Correct and I don't work for Augusta Medical Systems.

ComeBackid

Title: Jelqing and Traction Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 01, 2006, 02:27:33 PM
There are many sites out thre claiming they can enlarge your penis, my urologist at Hershey said there is no medically proven way to enlarge your penis and surgery is dangerous.  He advised for every 35 pounds of weight lost, you gain one inch of penile length.  I keep seeing this ancient "jelqing" technique on these websites and hand exercises, has anyone else here researched them or know much about them?  To me they seem to have scam written all over them and seem to be nothing more than glorified masterbation.

Another thought I have is if these traction devices have worked so well in europe, why did no one use them before know in the United States?  Hopefully the Dr. Levine study will clear the air in regards to traction devices.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices/study of three cylinder VEDs
Post by: Old Man on July 01, 2006, 09:31:38 PM
ComeBackid:

You are right, as we discussed on the phone, IMHO, one without any Peyronies Disease symptoms would have little success in gaining increased dimensions through any form of stretching exercises. However, I do believe that they are helpful in restoring lost dimensions due to symptoms of Peyronies Disease. At least in my personal case I know that the VED exercises did restore me to my original dimensions. At present, I show very little if any signs of Peyronies Disease. I use a maintenance exercise schedule now just to keep me healthy "down there".

The only study that I know of at the moment dealing with a three cylinder VED is being done by a urology group in Birmingham, AL. Their protocol has been posted here by Hawk several months ago. It may even be on this topic, (have not looked for it lately as I have it stored in my archives). It is basically the same protocol that the Soma Correct listed when it was marketed for Peyronies Disease. This study should be completed soon and I was assured that the results would be published for review by all.

Glad that you were able to get assistance from Augusta in obtaining your VED. They have always been very considerate to me in any contacts with them. I still believe that the Soma is a very good VED for Peyronies Disease therapy regardless of what the FDA states. Maybe some day the VED will have its day in court.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: Old Man
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 02, 2006, 04:56:11 AM
Old Man,

Most of these traction devices are claiming their products will enlarge the man without peyronies disease, so you would disagree with that claim they are making?  They also use one calculator where you can type in your current length and calculate it after so many months using their device(you type in the amount of months).  The problem I have with that is that no two guys have the same exact peyronies plaque, or scar.  You can't generalize how long it will take to stretch one plaque for everyone, and it has yet to be proven by a credible doctor that there is a penis enlargment technique for people without peyronies.  Don't you find it suspcious they are making one generalized claim for everyone?

ComeBackid
Title: Suspensory Ligament
Post by: Liam on July 02, 2006, 07:51:12 AM
Penis enlargement surgery cuts the suspensory ligament to allow parts of the penis that were "inside" the body to be "outside".  Post surgical therapy involves penis traction (weights) to reduce shrinkage.

http://www.drwhitehead.com/phallo_postop.html

This is just FYI.  Maybe another clue to understanding the traction issue.
Title: Re: Claims on Web about enlargement
Post by: Old Man on July 02, 2006, 09:24:01 AM
ComeBackid:

I think you are right about the claims made by these web sites, but, who knows? I personally know of no person who has experienced growth of the penis using these devices and/or exercises. The only ones that I know using them only gained what they had lost. I suppose that if one had started using the stretching devices at a very early age during ones youth growing age, gains might be realized. My uro states that she knows of no way gains other back to the original size can be obtained by using any device, etc.

There are reports of men in the tribes of the Malaysian area growing long penises by using stretching devices from youth. The male with the longest penis resulting from this became the head knocker of the tribe. I have seen pictures in the National Geographic magazine of such years ago. Have not seen any lately though.

I really have not opinion about these sites other than we would have to see first hand knowledge and personal testimonies about their results.

Old Man
Title: Re: Cutting the ligaments on the penis
Post by: Old Man on July 02, 2006, 09:30:23 AM
Liam:

Anyone considering having the ligaments cut to gain more length should take a very close look at the results first. Most of the time, when these are cut to gain size, the penis then has no support to hold itself up in a good position to penetrate during sex.

The penis will just hang down in most cases and could present serious problems of all kinds. One or two guys in our cancer support group had this done and once they healed and tried to have sex, their opinion of having it done suddenly went sour. The result was not good at all.

So, bottom line, IMHO, this would be considered "the ultimate last resort" in gaining penile length for me personally.

Old Man
Title: Ligament Cutting
Post by: Liam on July 02, 2006, 01:37:40 PM
Old Man,

I completely agree.  It would have to be a pretty desperate situation before I would even consider something like that.

The interesting point to me was that they are using a form of traction.  This is the only time I've heard of any medical professional using traction on the penis.
Title: Re: Ligament Cutting
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 02, 2006, 02:12:28 PM
Old man is right that cutting the ligament can cause serious problems, mainly being the penis has no stability when erect.  This surgery is way overglorified.  By cutting the ligament you don't gain length from what I've read, just the appearance that your penis is longer because it hangs down lower.  I asked my urologist at Hershey and he said there is no way to enlarge your penis besides cutting the suspensatory ligament which he does not recomend having done.

ComeBackid
Title: Your opinion
Post by: Liam on July 02, 2006, 03:43:07 PM
What about the fact they are using a form of traction post-op?  Do you find that interesting?
Title: Middle of the road opinion on traction devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 02, 2006, 04:19:11 PM
Liam,

I do, but remember not everyone who has their suspensatory ligament cut has peyronies disease.  I do think a man with peyronies plaque can see gains from traction usage, but the normal person without peyronies?  I don't know, there are so many questions out there and I'm just asking them, I think it is interesting they are using traction after surgery.  I anxiously await to see Dr. Levines published study on the clinical trials hes currently working on, it should be interesting and maybe clear the air somewhat on this issue.  Liam if you tell me your seeing gains I believe you.

ComeBackid
Title: Traction devices
Post by: wantitstr8 on July 02, 2006, 06:54:56 PM
I too have seen the claims of penis enlargement through the use of traction devices...personally, I am using the traction device for straightening the curve.  So far, I have seen a significant reduction in curvature (about 15-20 degrees) and I have regained about half the 1 1/4 inches I lost when I got Peyronies Disease.  As far as getting it longer, I don't think I could take the tedium of traction beyond fixing the problem I already have.
Title: Traction
Post by: Liam on July 02, 2006, 07:09:18 PM
AMEN Wantitstr8.

ComeBackid,
To me, traction is worth it.  I am enjoying just "hanging" again.
Title: Traction Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 02, 2006, 10:51:30 PM
Guys,

I"m glad to hear you guys are seeing positive results, I know that using the traction device is probably very tedious but worth it if you can help the problem. I may be purchasing one in the future, keep us informed on your results as you continue to see them.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: howcanthisbe on July 03, 2006, 01:15:49 PM
wow wantits thats amazing! Its good to see people getting success with VED devices. It seems to me this is the most successful treatment for Peyronies Disease?
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: wantitstr8 on July 03, 2006, 01:24:04 PM
Howcanthisbe-

Just so you know, the traction device is not a VED.  The principle is stretching rather than vacume...the same goal of stretching the tissue but a different mechanism.
Title: Soma Correct- Old Man or anyone using it
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 04, 2006, 12:41:25 AM
I'm going to start the Soma Correct therapy for Peyronies Disease.  One question I have is that should I use both black rings that go in the base of the tube, there are two of them and one can be placed inside the other.  Are you supposed to use both or just one of these black rings?

Also when I put on both black cylinder on the side you insert your penis in, opposite the end the hand pump is on there is a small gap between the end of cylinder tube A(which is inserted in B, and C) and the black seal, in other words the end of tube A doesn't touch all the way to the black seal, is this the way its supposed to be set up?

Also is it ok to take the L Arginine while using the Soma Correct for therapy?

ComeBackid
Title: Soma suggestions
Post by: Steve on July 04, 2006, 12:55:10 AM
Hi ComeBackid,
I've been using the Soma for about 1 1/2 months now (no results to speak of in my case yet), and I too noticed the gap between the inner cylinders and the black band.  When I use the B (medium) or the C (large) cylinder, I use the larger black sealing ring.  But whenever I use the A (Smallest) cylinder, if I use only the large ring, I get a pinching in the gap.  If I also use the small ring (a tight fit, but with enough lube, it works) I don't get pinched.  So that's my 2 cents worth.  My only other suggestion is to use LOTS of lube!

Steve
Title: Re: Steve
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 04, 2006, 02:55:06 AM
Steve,

When your flaccid do you have a loss of size or is your penis unusually hard?  Do you know if your calcified?  Are you on any pills while using your VED?  Are you strictly adhering to the 26 week protocol put out by Old Man and August Medical Systems?

ComeBackid
Title: Re: Puder
Post by: Steve on July 04, 2006, 09:49:20 AM
ComeBackid,

Well, when flaccid, I haven't really noticed any loss in length, although at times, it does seem unusually 'firm'.  As I told you in my PM, I don't think that I'm calcified, but haven't had any ultrasound to check.  The only 'pills' I'm taking are Vit E (which I've been taking for probably 5 years before Peyronies Disease).

As far as strictly adhering to the 26 week protocol  :-\ well, I'm trying.  I had to take a week off right after my last VI injection (I'd started VED with 2 shots to go out of 12) due to excessive bruising caused by the shot.  I didn't want to exacerbate it with the VED, so I essentially started over as I was only a couple of weeks in.  Then, I've had some Boy Scout campouts that caused a break in the routine -- I didn't think that my 'excercises' would be appropriate around the campfire :D.

Right now, with my re-start and a few missed weeks, I figure I'm around week 9 of the protocol, and so far I haven't noticed any changes to the bend.  Sometimes I think that the plaque seems a little softer, but that's kinda hard to measure.

Good luck with your VED, and as I've said before -- LOTS OF LUBE!!! ;)

Steve
Title: Re: Problems with Soma Correct insert rings
Post by: Old Man on July 04, 2006, 10:06:04 AM
ComeBackid and Steve:

The problem with the black insert rings has been brought to the attention of the folks at Augusta Medical. Have not heard yet what they intend to do, if anything, about correcting this problem.

In the meantime, you should use them as follows:  when using all three cylinders, A, B and C together, use both black rings. When using cylinders B & C, use either both black rings if necessary for a tight fit or only the larger black insert. When using cylinder C alone, use only the large black insert. (Note: if you are especially small in size due to whatever cause, natural or Peyronies Disease induced, you may have better luck using both inserts with C. Use your own personal feelings about which works best for you. Make  any adjustments necessary to prevent any pain or uncomfortable feeling. Above all, never, but never pump too much pressure and use plenty lube during any and all exercises. The penis must slide in and out of the cylinder freely. Any water soluble lubricant will work, (WalMart Equate brand personal lubricant works well and only costs about $1.94 per bottle/container.)

Now, on the outside chance that one needs to use the Soma Correct for erections, you should be extremely careful to use the large black insert with cylinder C or B & C. This is necessary to prevent a very uncomfortable feeling as you pump up. The sharp end edge of cylinder C can cut into your flesh, etc. Also, it helps in sliding off the retainer ring onto the penis shaft after achieving a full erection. If your Soma came without any retainer rings, they should be purchased from Auguata separately.

The above carries my usual caveat that I am in no way connected with Augusta Medical. This information is furnished only as a guide to those using the VED. I have, by trial and error, developed the above system for my own use.

Regards to all, Old Man
Title: Denied Insurance Coverage
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 05, 2006, 05:06:12 PM
Old Man,

I just learned today after calling in myself to check on my VED claim, that it was denied... what a surprise move by the greedy insurance companies.  They claim the diagnosis code is wrong and it has to be inorganic impotence, not peyronies disease.  I had to call Mike from Augusta up to see what can be done about it.  I also filed a claim with the state insurance comission against MEDCO for failure to pay out about $1000 worth of submitted claims regarding topical verapamil, those people are a disgrace to this country as they rob us people who play by the rules and string people out for weeks with lies.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED Insurance/Medicare codes
Post by: Old Man on July 05, 2006, 10:08:26 PM
ComeBackid:

Unfortunately, the insurance company is probably right. As far as I know, most insurance companies as well as Medicare will only approve VED claims for impotence only for certain causes. Prostate Cancer surgery causing impotence will qualify, certain diabetic patients will qualify and some other cases will qualify where there is a possibility of continued impotence; i.e. permanent damage to erectile function. Don't believe they will approve claims for Peyronies Disease alone.

You might have luck getting your doctor or uro to prescribe it again and get Augusta Medical to revise their claim for you. Or, you could get the prescription and forward a copy of it to the insurance company with a renewed claim based on the revised diagnosis code.

It will be worth a try to get it revised, etc.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED insurance claim
Post by: Mick on July 05, 2006, 10:44:01 PM
Old Man,

My claim with medicare and tricare (for secondary) for the Soma was paid with a diagnosis of Peyronies only.  That's what Mike told me to do an we did it.  He said he had arranged it and I guess he had because they paid in less than 2 weeks.

Respy, Mick
Title: Re: Old Man
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 05, 2006, 11:37:19 PM
I'm refiling it, tomorrow hopefully the doctors office will fax me a new copy with the other diagnosis code.  I had no control over what diagnosis code they listed, but Mike said my insurance company was willing to pay.  All insurance companies do is lie and try to make it as difficult as possible to get a claim through, MEDCO denied me 3 times for invalid reasons, then on the fourth time came up with a valid reason to deny me after stringing me out for a month.  Those insurance companies should be ashamed of themselves.

ComeBackid
Title: Organic Erectile Dysfunction & VED
Post by: Liam on July 06, 2006, 12:24:57 AM
The only way I know of to cover a VED is organic erectile dysfunction (ED).  The VED should be prescribed for the treatment of ED, NOT for the treatment of Peyronies Disease.
Ask you doc about the code used.

Here is an interesting Pub Med abstract.  Kinda related.


1: Int J Impot Res. 2004 Dec;16(6):540-3. Related Articles, Links 


Incidentally diagnosed Peyronie's disease in men presenting with erectile dysfunction.

Kadioglu A, Oktar T, Kandirali E, Kendirci M, Sanli O, Ozsoy C.

Section of Andrology, Department of Urology, Medical Faculty of Istanbul, University of Istanbul, Istanbul, Turkey. kadiogluates@ttnet.net.tr

The aim of this study was to analyze characteristics of patients with Peyronie's disease (Peyronies Disease) diagnosed during a standard evaluation for erectile dysfunction (ED) and compare them with patients presenting with the classical complaints of Peyronies Disease. During a 10-y period, a total of 448 patients were evaluated at our two outpatient clinics, directed by the same author (AK). They were divided into two groups: group I consisted of patients, who presented with only ED and were unaware of their penile deformity, and group II consisted of patients with the classical features of the disease. The clinical characteristics, penile deformities, erectile status and the presence of comorbidities were determined in the two groups. Of 448 Peyronie's patients, 16% (n=71) were detected during diagnostic work-up for ED. In this group of patients, ED was the presenting symptom for a mean period of 31.3+/-9.7 months. The mean age of men was 57.54+/-8.75 and 52.21+/-10.27 y in groups I and II, respectively (P=0.0001). The mean degree of deformity was 31.5+/-12.66 degrees in group I and 41.16+/-19.14 degrees in group II (P=0.0001). In group I (n=71), 69% (n=49) of the patients had a poor erectile response to the combined injection and stimulation (CIS) test. Also, in this group, the mean degrees of deformity in CIS-positive and -negative patients were 27.05+/-12.50 and 33.80+/-12.03 degrees , respectively (P=0.033). Diabetes mellitus (40%) was the leading comorbidity in group I, while at least one comorbidity was observed in 73% of the cases (P=0.001). A remarkable percent of Peyronie's patients (16%) were detected during a standard evaluation for ED. This study analyzed, for the first time, the frequency and the characteristics of incidentally diagnosed Peyronie's patients who presented with only ED. Our data indicate that one should always consider the possibility of Peyronies Disease in older patients with diabetes, presenting with only ED.

PMID: 15116064 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]




Title: Re: Medicare and Tricare
Post by: Old Man on July 06, 2006, 10:55:55 AM
Mick:

You are right about Medicare and Tricare, but since ComeBackid, because of his age, is not covered by either, he is in a different category than us "old timers".  He says that Medco is his insurance carrier and sometimes I understand they have peculiar regulations/coverages, etc. Anyway, functional and possibly total impotence is one of the only coverages by some companies hence the exceptions. Some companies consider Peyronies Disease as a cosmetic "fix" and is not necessary for health reasons. Why, I haven't a clue.

The company where he purchased the VED will help refile, I am sure. As he said he will refile and surely the right code will be placed on the application this time.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Insurance companies- Cheating hardworking Americans out of their money for years
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 06, 2006, 03:33:53 PM
Old Man,

They won't pay out today, my claim was listed as Other Specified Disorders of the Penis, Mike told me to do it this way to get the claim covered through the "black hole."  He said they probably won't accept Peyronies Disease diagnosis.  He called my insurance for durable medical goods and they agreed they would pay out 70%.  Now they have backed out on their word.  I called my doctor and he says he can't change the prescription to organic impotence so I can get it covered, because I can't see him.  Well he prescribed the IONO and VED without seeing him via a phone consultation, so that excuse doesn't really make sense.  If I want to do a phone consultation with him now it would cost me $78. 

Mike was not happy, he said my insurance had agreed to pay and was very upset.  Typical American Insurance company, spike premiums sky high, deny coverage for any and all invalid reasons, string out the customers for weeks, then tell them to go write a letter of appeal to some place where they probably take all the letters and use them as fuel for their fire.  Why even buy health insurance?  Even the "big government" health insurance which is supposed to be wasteful and bureaucratic is better than my expensive private health insurance, what a bunch of scum bags.

ComeBackid
Title: Pre approval
Post by: Liam on July 06, 2006, 04:01:21 PM
Does Mike have a paper trail of the pre-approval (I hope)?  There are forms for such things. 
Title: Insurance company Lies
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 06, 2006, 05:47:49 PM
He just documented who he talked to and what they said, I highly doubt he tape recorded the conversation, and these places would never allow any kind of form for a pre approval nor do they have any to the extent of my knowledge.  In fact if you ask MEDCO before you do a direct claim how much they will pay for a certain drug they won't tell you.  You have no idea how much you will be reimbursed, I called in and asked before I even got the TV and the VED, they wouldn't tell me.  They told MIke they will cover 70% for the VED, and the doctors medical necessity order did not say peyronies, they simply lied on the phone and then backed out on their word.  I told MIke he can deal with it, I'm tired of calling endless people who give me the run around, if MIke got their word it will be covered I told him look "then you need to call those people and get it covered, cause you told me its being covered."  I'm tired of the liars and their games, when you pay $377 a month in health insurance I expect quality service.

ComeBackid
Title: Insurance
Post by: Liam on July 06, 2006, 06:17:18 PM
Good.  If Mike told you it was covered, Mike should deal with it.
Title: Traction Study
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 07, 2006, 02:30:22 AM
For those of you who may not have seen it, I noticed this online.

Traction Study (http://www.jes-extender.dk/cms.ashx/articles/peyronies-disease.aspx)

ComeBackid
Title: Re:Traction Study
Post by: Hawk on July 07, 2006, 10:41:14 AM
Thanks ComeBackid,

I think that or a similar link to the same self-promoting study was posted several days ago.  At this point I think this is much like the PDLabs study.  Until we see independent objective evidence we have to remain very skepticle.  Even then we must know all the particulars such as stage, age, cause, protocol and much more.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Rico on July 08, 2006, 12:43:04 PM
Hello,

I'm new on the forum, 52, lost two inches, hour glass, about 25 degree bend, gets worse every week(three months now).

I have been in the martial arts for over 30 years, was a wrestler before that, have lots of scar tissue and injuries over the years. I have work through most of it, after mature with st recthing. I have a large piece in my back, which still can bother me. I use to put tennis balls in a sweat sock and roll on it(scar tissue) and this help me, I could fill it breaking up. Hard to do on the willy.
Static stretching I don't believe in , a traction devise seems more on this line, I think IMO, that when it is more mature scar tissue, I would have to lean more with the Old Man, a VED would work better. Shorter period of time plus the warm blood and very controlled by user, slow, don't tear, this is a injury. The new area your body replace with the old tissue, now is tissue, but scar tissue, it can be stretched, but slowly, don't re injured it. When mine is mature, I will try this, I have to get the inflammation at bay now and will try that in a more holistic approach, heal my body not the condition it self, I'm like everyone else and want a cure all, give me a shot in the area and it will go away, won't happen brothers, if AA4500 works, your body will have to be ready to accept it, remember it isn't what you take in your body, it is what you assimilate. Everyone on here should get a cooler in your house, drink distill water everyday, one gallon, detox yourself, clean your colon, go on a 30 day course to flip the switch back to healing in your body. God Bless you all....Calling All Angles for my brothers..."The Sun Also Rises".

Rico
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Liam on July 08, 2006, 09:27:40 PM
ComeBackid,

I have thought about your question regarding calcified plaque.   An analogy comes to mind.  Attach two rubber bands to a paper clip.  Pull on the rubber bands trying to break the paper clip.  I think this may be a fair comparison.
Title: Re: Liams Analogy
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 08, 2006, 09:38:51 PM
Your point being that the calcified plaque cannot be stretched I assume.

ComeBackid
Title: Stretch
Post by: Liam on July 08, 2006, 09:53:53 PM
I think the surrounding tissue would have to be stretched beyond its limits before any change could be seen in the plaque.  I have been thinking about this for a while.  I have also been monitoring my own situation.  It just seems to make sense.  This, of course, is just my opinion.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Rico on July 08, 2006, 10:12:47 PM
Liam,

I agree with this, that is why I think one would want to use heat, or soak in epsom salt or like you said with traction, use heat to make the scar more supple, as I said it can be molded.
Title: Re: VED's and exercises
Post by: Old Man on July 08, 2006, 10:14:05 PM
Liam:

You are right that the plaque would not stretch at the same level as the surrounding tissue. That is why that I state that extreme caution is to be used at all times with VED exercises. However, over the long haul with the VED stretching, the plaque will in most cases give way and as Rico states about this in his martial arts work it will "remember" to stay stretched, etc.

Over time (and it does take time with VED exercises) the plaque, nodules, and bends/curves will become less and could possibly go away altogether. It has in my case, probably because I still maintain a schedule of VED exercises each week. This is not difficult to do because being impotent, the old tool needs to be kept healthy and the VED can and will do that.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Where are the participants of Dr. Levines study?
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 11, 2006, 03:32:49 AM
I was thinking, if Dr. Levine is currently doing a study involving traction devices, and I'm sure he has at least a 100 people in this right?  Where are all these people?  You'd think that at least a handfull would be members on this site, considering we are well known, and are a growing site.  If I'm correct WantItStr8 sees Dr. Levine but is not part of the traction study, even though he uses the device?  I wonder what else Dr. Levine is studying?

Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: wantitstr8 on July 11, 2006, 08:54:56 AM
As far as I know, I am the only patient of Dr. Levine's that posts on this forum.  I have no idea how many patients he has in the traction study...but 100 would seem like a lot to me.  He limits the total number of Peyronies patients he accepts...no idea what that percentage is either.  For the record, Dr. Levine is also using VI, Pentox, and working on the AA4500 protocols.
Title: Re: Peyronies Math - Where are the participants of Dr. Levines study?
Post by: Hawk on July 11, 2006, 10:25:28 AM
Quote from: pudder135 on July 11, 2006, 03:32:49 AM
Dr. Levine is currently doing a study involving traction devices, and I'm sure he has at least a 100 people in this right?  You'd think that at least a handful would be members on this site, considering we are well known..

Rough Math and a wild estimate:

Lets say a ridiculously low number of men get Peyronies Disease -> 2%
Lets conservatively only consider the men over 50 years old Guesstimate of U.S. Males over 50 -> 25,000,000
Men in US over 50 years old with Peyronies 500,000
To be conservative lets cut that in half and say 250,000 men in the US have Peyronies Disease
We have less that 200 men posting here from all over the world
even with these very conservative figures we have far less than one out of ever 1000 U.S. Peyronies Disease patients posting here. 

If we up the Peyronies Disease rate to 6%, include men under 50yrs old, consider only the U.S. males that post here, Maybe we have less than one out of every 20, 000 U.S. Males with Peyronies Disease posting here.

I am amazed we have one that was offered a chance to be in Dr. Levine's traction study. We need to realize that we are not scratching the surface of broken lives, people that need support, people to enlist in a real battle.  If we got 5% of Peyronies Disease patients, we would probably have a group of 12,000 members just from one country.  If every Patient in the U.S. gave 1 dollar a week to research it would be 13 million dollars a year.


I would be very interested if someone could do what I did above with some acceptable degree of accuracy.  My figures are rough guess work. 
Title: Calcium is not forever
Post by: Tim468 on July 11, 2006, 11:47:10 AM
I went back to carefully read some of the articles - and found an article that demonstrated a decrease in calcified plaque with iontophoretic verapamil. It also found that longstanding disease was less likely to respond, as also was a thickening of the septum (which I think I may have).

Their finding was : "In 1 patient an approximate 20% reduction in plaque calcification after iontophoresis therapy was observed (fig. 2)." (It is visible in the image).

The article is IONTOPHORESIS FOR TREATMENT OF PEYRONIE'S DISEASE by CLAUS R. RIEDL, EUGEN PLAS, PAUL ENGELHARDT, ET AL, THE JOURNAL OF UROLOGY® Vol. 163, 95–99, January 2000.

Tim
Title: Soma Correct
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 12, 2006, 12:03:38 AM
Been doing the protocol, but afterwards my penis just shrinks back down hard and shrunken whe flaccid.  When you get to the B and C tubes, how do they do anything, mainly the C tube if your penis does not fill it out?  It would seem like you would just pump a normal erection in the C tube and it wouldn't touch the sides to keep it straight or anything.

My idea of the plaque stretching, the way I visualize it, is a sweedish fish candy.  If you take them you can stretch them thinner and thinner, anyone ever do this?  Thats how I picture the peyronies plaque being stretching, however, it does seem that a constant light pull like the traction would work faster or be more effective at keeping the plaque more permanently stretched, rather than a 35 or 40 minute 10 cycle workout with the VED.  Nonetheless i continue the protocol, I'm going to see if this really works or not for myself.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices/patience with protocol
Post by: Old Man on July 12, 2006, 10:36:41 AM
ComeBackid:

You are expecting results from the vacuum therapy too soon. As I have said all along in our phone calls, PMs and on the main forum, it takes time to see good results. Again, don't get impatient and expect overnight results.

Now, about the use of the three cylinders. Everyone using the Soma Correct should follow the weekly step by step protocol to the letter. It was developed by the company to produce the desired results. Using the C or larger cylinder allows the penis to fully expand and stretch lengthwise. The A and B cylinders are designed to keep the penis is a straight position and stretch slightly at the same time. So, when using all three cylinders on that weekly step use extreme caution and do not, repeat do not, overpump the pressure. Holding the pressure for the recommended time allows the penis to have the most pressure and stretching in a confined space. This allows the penis to become accustomed to the higher pressure and when the pressure drops off the tissue remembers the stretched condition, etc.

Bottom line, remember that Peyronies Disease usually comes on slowly and any resultant correction will also be done away with slowly. In my case, it took 6 months of daily exercising to rid me of the plaque and curve/bend.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Rico on July 12, 2006, 11:03:50 AM
Old Man,

Brilliant!! It just makes sense to me, I haven't done it, but as far as proper application for a injury, you are so right Sir!

I'm so glad you are here, there are Angles:)!

Rico
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: howcanthisbe on July 12, 2006, 12:04:57 PM
Does it matter what kind of plaque you have? My plaque is like 2 hard veins on the top side of my penis that run from the base to right below the head. They are thin and long just like a vein. Can I stretch these out or does stretching only work for round plaque? Im just wondering if this treatment works for all plaque sizes or what. Thanks
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices/vein like plaque?
Post by: Old Man on July 12, 2006, 02:28:28 PM
HCTB:

During one of my bouts with Peyronies Disease, I had two or three vein like "ribbons" running up and down the middle of the shaft on top. The uro thought they might be veins that had hardened for some reason, but had no idea what they were.

After using the VED for the 6 months period, getting rid of the hourglass effect and straigthening out the old tool, the vein like things were gone also. I have one small "string like thing" about an inch long that appears when I get an erection with the VED. During the flaccid state it does not appear. During my next visit with my uro I will ask her about what this could be, etc. and give a report back here.

In the meantime, some guys that I have counseled with in the prostate cancer group who had Peyronies Disease, used Vitamin E capsules to massage these vein like things. They simply punctured the outer skin of the E capsule and rubbed the liquid on the skin like an ointment. I believe that they used the high gamma version of E.

I used high dosages of oral E for two months while doing my VED exercises. However, I had blood work done monthly to preclude the possibility of a toxic build up. Had no problems with that and it seemed to help with bringing more oxygen into the erectile chambers during the pumping, etc. At any rate, the Peyronies Disease went into remission I guess as I have very little if any signs left to show or feel at this time.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Thrombosis
Post by: Liam on July 13, 2006, 12:20:36 AM
http://pmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/76/895/311b

http://www.medhelp.org/forums/urology/archive/4542.html

http://www.med.unipi.it/agp/us/ultra/US6.HTM  - sonograph

Some links I found about a thrombosis of the penis.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on July 13, 2006, 09:33:08 AM
I would point out that Mondors is extremely rare.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: howcanthisbe on July 13, 2006, 09:38:55 AM
Thanks oldman, Tim and Liam. Do you think the veinlike things are Peyronies Disease oldman or something else like Mondors or thrombosis. The reason I think its Peyronies Disease is  because I have a dent that is growing, its actually now starts from the left side and goes half way around the penis. I guess im forming the stupid invisible rubberband thing, but so far it hasnt effected my erections. Its not really too bad, but it is getting worse it seems. So doesnt only Peyronies Disease cause this? I cant find any lumps, all I have are those hard like vein things. Anyways im not looking for a diagnosis as im sure I have Peyronies Disease due to the string like dent forming.I will try the vitiman E thing. Thanks
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Lunchbox on July 13, 2006, 10:27:11 AM
HCTB,

     I know your question was posted to Old Man and not me.  But I do have a few questions.  The vein like things you have.  They run from base to tip on the dorsal (top) side?  Can you feel them when limp?  Do they hurt?  How bad is the indentation?  With the several dents I have had they have all been very noticable.  The first one I had looked like something took a bite out of it.  Can you see the dent or just feel it?  If I poke and prode my penis enough I can feel all kinds of variations in the contour.  I to have a vein like think that goes from the top middle down the right side right through were my dent is.  It has been causing me alot of worry but it hasnt changed in two months, doesnt hurt and all in all the dent has been steadily improving.  Sometimes veins get hard when your erect.  It may always be this way, it may not.  As you get older you will notice many things change about your body.  I am by no means trying to diagnose you as having or not having Peyronies Disease.  I just fear you may be causing yourself undue stress.  If I feel the vein like thing I have all the time it seems to get worse.  If I leave alone for a day it seems to get better.  I suggest you take a step back and try not to think about it for a while.  Try not to touch it.  I think if you stop feeling it all the time and stop trying to manage how many erections you have in a day you will find that everything is functioning as normal.

Not trying to sound all wise or hollier-than-thou.  Just trying to help.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Liam on July 13, 2006, 01:05:00 PM
HCTB, 

Only one way to know for sure :).

Doctors don't bite.  They poke and prod, but, never bite. ;D
Title: Re: Vein like hardened "strings"
Post by: Old Man on July 13, 2006, 03:59:50 PM
HCTB:

I have had these string like things several times. They just seem to come and go at will. My uro told me that was nothing "wrong" by having them. And, since they seem to disappear at will, never give them much thought.

They usually appeared during erections and went away when becoming flaccid again. However, if you are concerned about them, suggest that you get them checked out by your uro on your next visit. If you are not now seeiang a uro, maybe you should and get a professional opinion. When seeing your regular MD or uro always have your list of questions ready and don't be afraid to ask them.

If your doctor does not know what information you desire, he can't give you an answer. So, ask away when you see one. Most will appreicate your being aware of your condition and wanting to do something about it.

To answer your question as to whether or not I think the string like hardened objects are Peyronies Disease, I have no way of knowing for sure, just what I have experienced. Since mine never gave me any problem, I did not worry about them and concentrated on getting rid of the plaque, nodules and hourglass indentations.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: howcanthisbe on July 13, 2006, 10:18:38 PM
lunchbox, the veinlike things are hard and have a bluish tent, one of them for sure has a blue color, the bigger one has less of a blue color but I can see some blue in it when its erect. They become noticable when erect, yet I can feel them when soft. Now the dent is about as wide as half a shoe strings width and is like 1 inch long. It covers almost half my penis now, I fear im forming the invisible string thing. I think my first dent that I noticed was right above this current dent but it seems to have gone away I think. My erections are still pretty good and havent changed any really since I got this dent. Now my curve has really improved lately im pretty sure as I have almost no curve at all. Its the growing dent that leaves me to believe it has to be Peyronies Disease. Oldman, thanks for the advice. I have hope it VED and all that if I get too bad, I just really want to get a girlfriend and see how I do and forget about this for a while. But yea the dent is growing for sure, I predict its going to fully circle my penis in a few months time. Im just hoping it wont give me that hinge effect or anything bad. Nothing else besides Peyronies Disease can cause a dent right? Thanks everyone for the great help.

Oh and lunchbox, the vein thing is from the inside of my penis where it telescopes into my body as far back as I can feel, it runs from there up to right below the head.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Rico on July 14, 2006, 12:15:36 PM
I have been doing some study on infrasonic to heal scar tissue. I know the machines are expensive, but I really like what I'm reading, if some of you have time, please do some googling on this. The wealth of experience and knowledge here is most welcome. Thank you.

Rico
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Rico on July 14, 2006, 12:33:50 PM
I wanted to mention on the post about the vein from howcanthisbe, it sounds like you have inflammation on the septum area of your penis, there are many nerves in this area and you can feel this in a normal penis, where yours is injured or inflammation has set in is where in my opinion the dent or hour glass is happening, it has lost some of the elastic effect in that area to inflate. Scar tissue itself will usually form in the first three weeks of injury, it will go through stages for two years, this new tissue will never be as strong as the old tissue and will lose it elastic abilities. I have this effect, now for three months and I'm tyring to reduce the firming up of this scar tissue in the early stages and remolding it so it is thiner and has more elastic to reduce the effect on my penis. You probally also have more of a lateral scar, this is a band, doesn't have to be large either, mine is only 1.6cmm, but causes the hour glass, if you feel along the septum you will feel it a little larger there, and it will be where your dent is. I think the old man advise especially for hour glass effect makes sense along with the softening of the tissue, I haven't used the VED yet, I have been working on epsom salt baths and nutrient at this time. I just wanted to say, I brought up this vein and it is just like you describe to my doctor(urologist), and he said it was the area where all the nerves are ect....also if you have some inflammation, which I'm sure you do this whole area would be more pronounced. I find it interesting on the fact that a scar takes two years to form and this is the same amount of time that this diesease as they call it takes to normalized, back to what I think it is more of a injury.

Rico
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Liam on July 14, 2006, 04:55:44 PM
Here is a Wikipedia citation of Infrasound.  It is not medical in nature,  It can, however, help with a basic understanding of concept.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasonic

While researching infrasound, another keyword that may be useful is "resonance" or "resonance frequencies".
Title: Small Study using the VED
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 14, 2006, 08:51:01 PM
Guys,

After searching through hours of BTC posts, I found a one Mr. David Ralph who was claiming to be doing a study using verapamil injections and a VED for treatment of peyronies disease.  It is unclear whether Mr. Ralph is a doctor or not, hes listed as a urological consultant.  He wrote me back just today with this reply in my original email to him asking him for the results of his study.

"The study did not happen as the company was sold-  I am now doing a
small trial with the vaccumm device-  should be ready in 6 months"

David Ralph


Apparently he is doing some kind of study or will be doing one soon, I imagine hes going to be doing the 6 month study using the Soma Correct machine, but I'm not sure. His email address puts him in great britain.  Did anyone hear of this guy before?  Apparently there is going to be at least one study done using a VED.

I believe Old Man had told me or Mike Davis from Augusta that Augusta had done some initial testing using the Soma Correct for peyronies, I was wondering what the results of that data was, and if that information will be available anytime soon.

ComeBackid
Title: VED therapy update
Post by: Angus on July 19, 2006, 09:12:52 PM

    I have been using VED therapy for one and a half years using a protocol very similar to the 26 week multi-cylinder protocol, but for far longer than 26 weeks. Daily use resulted in the reduction of a 45 degree left curve to less than 10 degrees. The indention on the left side is still there but it's not much of an issue. The only supplement I took during this time was L Arginine (500 mg/day) which I still take. My Peyronies Disease had been stable for years before I started VED therapy. I believe the re-modeling that took place for me with VED therapy is not much unlike physical therapy one would use for a blown out shoulder or knee. I use the VED's sparingly these days as a sort of maintenance program to keep things as they are and to help maintain good blood flow. Many thanks go to Old Man for continued suggestions and support with this, and huge, deep warm appreciation and love to my wonderful wife, who helped me talk about it and double-team this stuff. Thanks, babe.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Rico on July 19, 2006, 10:50:10 PM
Angus,

Thanks for your post on VED, I have been looking at it now, I'm three months into peyronies, I have a slight bend, no pain, hour glass, lost of size and a hinge effect. Did you have a hinge effect and did this ved correct it? I'm going to talk to my doctor this week to get one ordered and follow it by the Old Man's instruction, he is a Saint. I'm just trying to get as much information before I start and wondering if you know anyone who started it early in the peyronies. Thank you for your help. God Bless.

Rico
Title: Re: Rico, VED's, hinge effect
Post by: Angus on July 20, 2006, 02:50:22 AM

   Rico,

   Yes I had the hinge effect and it is still there to an extent because I still have a little indention on the left side. What this meant to me though, was changing the way of thinking of sex and techniques. The indenture means that any force coming down on the penis will cause it to bend over in the direction of the original curve, so you have to be careful and avoid the really wild actions involving a full withdrawal during sex which puts you in a position where someone would come down on you. It doesn't take long to figure out your limits and stay within those limits, but trust me, there are still tons of positions that work just fine... you just learn how far your body can move and stay within your partner. It's really no big deal at all, and for me sex is better now than it ever was before.
   I don't know of anyone personally that started VED therapy really early on with Peyronies Disease, less than six months or a year. That would best be discussed with Old Man. Listen to him; he knows his stuff on this.
   Proceed carefully and take care. Keep us updated on your progress... and all the best to you and the other men and women on this board  ;D
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Rico on July 20, 2006, 11:19:13 AM
Angus,

Thank you for your post. Where you able to gain any lost length or girth also, or just curve improvement. Thank you and do you use it also for ED, I don't have a problem with getting erections. God Bless you.

Rico
Title: Re: Rico, VED, size, ED
Post by: Angus on July 20, 2006, 02:10:05 PM

   Yes, the VED restored both length and girth, except for the indented area which is not that big of a deal for me. I don't use it for ED, no problem getting erections.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices/Soma Protocol
Post by: Old Man on July 20, 2006, 02:44:16 PM
Note to all:

It has come to my attention through PMs that the Soma protocol posted elsewhere on this topic is sorely lacking in enough detail. As I understand it now, the Soma Correct VED does not come with enough detailed instructions on how to assemble and use it properly.

The protocol does not go into any detail about using the inserts, when to use both and when to use only one, etc. It takes practice with the VED to establish a routine that is comfortable for the individual and therefore adjustments must be made in order to produce good results.

I will be glad to work with any and all who are using the Soma Correct and are having problems with how to correctly use to obtain good results. My email address is posted in my profile, so feel free to use it or use the PM on the main forum.

There is a study currently being done by a urology group in Birmingham, Alabama, using a three cylinder VED along with other items to see if the VED is a viable treatment for Peyronies Disease. Their protocol is also posted somewhere earlier on this topic. I think that their web address is listed on that protocol if any are interested in reading about the study.

Good luck to each and every one of you!

Sincerely, Old Man
Title: VED Usage Tip
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 21, 2006, 12:02:00 AM
Guys,

For those of you trying the Soma Correct, a tip would be to rid yourself of your pubic hair.  I didn't shave, but I took my electric razor and used the side burn trimmer, it works good and takes the hair right off, it leaves stubble, not a skin close shave which results in irritation.  I shaved off my forest and inner thighs, and right up around the penis, didn't touch the testicles though.  The shave I believe is crucial for a good seal with the lube and a comfortable fit.  I couldn't even imagine using a VED with pubes.  I would highly recomend everyone do this, it makes my workouts easy.  It does look weird in the beginning, but after awhile you get used to it, and since its summer it feels a lot more comfortable.

ComeBackid
Title: Hear Hear (or Hair Hair)
Post by: Steve on July 21, 2006, 09:35:48 AM
ComeBackid,

I completely agree ;D...I started shaving after about the 3rd week of the protocol, and yes, it does greatly help.  I did go the shaving route, and my only suggestion is to shave the night before the excercise, so any nicks can heal up.  After reading a post from BLBC, I'm going to experiment (?) with some Veet hair remover.  She claims that it doesn't irritate, and works in about 3 minutes or so.  If it works, I suspect (hope) that it'll have to be done only once a week or less.  We'll see.

Steve
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices/tips about shaving, hair removal
Post by: Old Man on July 21, 2006, 11:08:10 AM
Note to ComeBackid and Steve:

ComeBackid: If you recall, shaving around the base of the penis is one of the first steps in using a VED either for ED or Peyronies Disease. As you say it eliminates the hair that could be drawn into the cylinder(s) causing much discomfort, Also, it does provide a good clean surface to obtain a good tight seal when using the VED. Note: I use a brand name body lotion and body powder after shaving to help with any irritation from the short hair. Once started shaving, one must continue so that the "growing out" period does not cause problems with prickling, etc.

Steve:

Word of caution about using any hair removal preparation in the genital area. Most all of them have a cautionary note somewhere on the label that states that the preparation SHOULD NOT be used in the genital area. I know from firist hand experience that using Neet, Veet or any other brand of hair removal solutions is definitely not the way to go. It can and will cause irritation of the skin with rashes that take time to heal. So be careful in using those preparations.

The above is only my opinion based on my personal use. I did receive much discomfort from using the hair removal preparations. In addition, it took several weeks for the skin to return to normal so that I could continue with the VED therapy.

Regards to all, Old Man
Title: Hair Removal
Post by: Steve on July 21, 2006, 11:18:04 AM
Thanks Old Man for the words of advice ;)

My plan was to 'experiment' with an area not directly in contact with the VED at first to check for irritation etc.  Only if that was OK would I attempte to use hair removal products where it counts.

Steve
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices/hair removal
Post by: Old Man on July 21, 2006, 11:22:37 AM
Steve:

I believe that the reason there is a caution note on the labels is that the groin area is a very sensitive skin area.

You might want to just use a multiple blade safety razor and use it very carefully. I have no problem with using one and it does a good job. Use it about twice a week and have no irritation problems. As Tim said, it is best to not use the VED immediately after shaving, but several hours later.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Razors
Post by: Steve on July 21, 2006, 11:52:22 AM
Old Man,

I've been using a 3-blade razor for about a month now.  I have no irritation, but I still get some occasional nicks :o which is why I was looking into the hair removal products. Because of the nicks, I usually shave the night before so that any nicks have time to heal before applying the vacuum.  I've looked over the bottle, and find no warnings about the genital area, although the product is recommended for use in the 'bikini' area.  Although I don't wear a bikini  ;), I can use my imagination and figure out where they're talking about.

Steve

ps.  I just had my 1 year anniversary of starting treatment for Peyronies Disease, so far with nothing to show for any of it (Topical, 12 Shots  :o, and, so far, 9 weeks of VED usage).  I've still got my hopes up for the VED, and am eagerly awaiting some positive results which hopefully will start appearing before the 26 weeks are up.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on July 21, 2006, 12:10:37 PM
Shaving the pubic region is not too tricky - just takes some logistical planning. It is made IMMENSELY easier and less like to lead to nicks if one first soaks the area in hot water. Thus doing it in the shower is not quite as good as after a bath (or better, at the end of a bath while still in it).

One should not shave just before VED or iotnophoretic treatments, as the microscopic cuts will ooze/bleed (in the case of the VED), or offer a way into the blood vessels of the verapamil. Also, the pain associated with iontophoresis is quite noticable right after shaving. Thus, if one is to apply ionto verpamil to the base of the penis, then shaving the day before makes more sense than shaving that evening. It seems that for the VED, even four to six hours later is a long enough period of time to prevent oozing of blood.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Rico on July 21, 2006, 12:25:40 PM
I just wanted to mention that a beard trimmer, they are cheap at walmart or any drug stores works well for this, not nicks and get close like ComeBackid said. I'm not doing the VED yet but will soon. My ex once said I need to trim up a little and I use it and I was bald there with no nicks in about five seconds, fast and easy. I think I paid ten bucks for it.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: BLBC on July 21, 2006, 03:49:56 PM
Here's my personal experience with VEET: While I don't personally have a penis, I do have some VERY sensitive skin down there. I have gone all the way with all the hair, with this product and have not had a problem. I would NEVER use Nair as I have reactions to it when I did a skin test ON ME (did ya see the comment that I don't have a penis?)

Please realize everyone will react differently and do a skin test if you think of using this product. DH is set for a test tonight, no I'm not gonna tell him, I'm just gonna remind him of how it felt when I attempted to trim and shave him AND I'm durn good with a razor!


Disclaimer: Everyone's skin is different, DUH!!!! If you think about using Veet, without question do a skin test!
Title: Bald is Beautiful But.......
Post by: Liam on July 21, 2006, 05:07:32 PM
If you just trim the old pubes, the VED should do just fine.  I've had one for a year and trim (with scissors) as needed.  Works fine.

Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 21, 2006, 11:32:09 PM
Has anyone else using the Soma Correct or a VED had the problem of air leakage?  When I pump my penis up it will stay filled up just for a little then slowly shrink back down in the tube, at a very slow pace, but none the less air is leaking somewhere.  I tried shaving the pubes off, still didn't do the trick.  The first week I used the Soma my pubes were only trimmed and I had no air leakage at all.

ComeBackid
Title: Leakage
Post by: Liam on July 22, 2006, 12:32:43 AM
Sometimes the pump does not get tightened all the way to the sleeve.  Make sure it is not loose.  Check the "O" ring, too.  Make sure to use enough lube to get a seal. 


Try getting a seal on your hand.  That will make it easier to figure out where the leak is.

Liam
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 22, 2006, 01:38:15 AM
Liam,

I didn't know you were supposed to put lube on the little black ring on the pump piece?  I got new lube to, the equate kind from wal mart, shaved, and now am going to retry things tomorrow. I haven't been putting lube in between the two rings on the base penis end that go inside each other, I may try doing that to, last time I had so much lube on me I was like LUBE MAN!  ;D
ComeBackid
Title: LUBE MAN
Post by: Steve on July 22, 2006, 08:49:31 AM
You can also put lube on the large ring where it slips into the plastic tube.  I too had some slow leakage, and decided that it might be where the ring seals into the tube.  Since lubing the mating surface of the ring to the tube, I haven't had any leakaage.

Steve
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 22, 2006, 09:05:04 AM
Steve,

You mean the small thin black ring on the pumping component that the tube screws into?

Title: RE post about lube
Post by: Liam on July 22, 2006, 09:40:53 AM
1)Sometimes the pump does not get tightened all the way to the sleeve.  Make sure it is not loose. 

2)Check the "O" ring, too.  (no lube here)

3)Make sure to use enough lube to get a seal.  (In the regular place)

4)Try getting a seal on your hand.  That will make it easier to figure out where the leak is.

Sorry that wasn't very clear :(. 

Liam
Title: Air Leakage
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 23, 2006, 11:15:20 AM
Steve and Others,

I added lube on both of the black cylinder inserts, all over them, this seemed to help, but did not TOTALLY eliminate all leakage.  After pumping an erection and holding for about 3 seconds, air still leaks very very slowly, will there always be some slight leakage?  I've tried just about everything now, and simply just do do light pumps every 3 seconds to keep the erection held exactly at the same length in the tube, it seems to me that you will always have at least a slight amount of leakage, and doing "maintenance" pumps is the answer.

ComeBackid
Title: Air Leakage
Post by: Steve on July 23, 2006, 12:55:50 PM
ComeBackid,

Sorry to take so long to get back with you...my Outlook had hiccoughed!

I was referring to the 'outside' of the black inserts where they make contact with the clear tube (or where the small insert contacts the inside of the large one).  Since I've been lubing there, I haven't had any leaks.  However, when I did have leakage, the maintenance pumps worked just fine.

Steve
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 23, 2006, 01:22:21 PM
Steve and ComeBackid:

Since your guys seem to be having a re-occurring problem with leakage while using the Soma, you should try to find what it causing it. I have had no problem with the unit that I have been using for over a year now.

A few tips about assembling it might be in order. When placing all three cylinders or when mating B & C together, make sure that they nest inside each other nicely. Place lube inside the C cylinder and along the outside of the large insert. It also helps to place a small amount of lube between both inserts and on the outside of each. Mate them tightly inside the cylinders. Then mate the cylinders up to the pump assy. using a goodly amount of twisting pressure. Note: Cleaning the "O'' ring occasionally helps it get and keep a better seal.

If at any you get any urine up in the pump, it will not pump as well as it should. So, bottom line always hold the pump assy. at an angle above the level position to preclude urine getting into the pump. Another thing to watch for is the release button. Sometimes, it will get stuck slightly open and allow vacuum to fall off, so check that every time you use the VED.

Should you continue to have the vacuum fall off problem, contact Augusta Medical to see what they suggest for a fix.

Hope that the above helps some. Best regards, Old Man
Title: O Ring Cleaning
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 23, 2006, 06:08:27 PM
Old Man,

I don't think the O ring comes off of the pump part, do you just clean it with warm water?

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices/O Ring on Soma Pump
Post by: Old Man on July 23, 2006, 07:44:31 PM
ComeBackid:

Yes, the O rng will come off the pump assy. You must be very careful and simply slightly stretch it over the tabs that it fits behind. It needs to be cleaned every so often to preclude a build up of lube that can dry and cause it to leak vacuum. DO NOT get any water or liquid on the intake side of the pump at any time so that it won't get into the pump. Just clean the outside of the pump housing with a mild water/soap solution and DO NOT immerse it in water.

Regards, Old Man 
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 23, 2006, 08:05:14 PM
Old Man,

After I'm done doing the workout, I take apart the three plastic tubes and run water on the inside of each straight form the spicket, warm water that is, I also rinse out the outside of the tubes.  I disconnect the two black insert rings and rinse them off with warm water, and now I'm going to take off the O ring and rinse that off, the pump handle part I never did anything to. After rinsing everything I let all pieces air dry seperately and taken apart. Am I cleaning the unit properly in this matter? I didn't get any instructions on how to clean the unit from Dr. Carrol
Title: Re: Cleaning the VED tubes
Post by: Old Man on July 23, 2006, 09:14:05 PM
ComeBackid:

Yes, you should disassemble the entire pieces and wash them thoroughly with warm soapy water, rinse well with plain water and dry with a soft cloth. Then, let them air dry for a while before storing, etc. You should only occasionally take the O ring off to clean it when it appears to collect lube or urine, etc. Some urine will at times get into the cylinders while pumping so you should be careful to preclude it being drawn into the pump assy. as this can and will cause failure of the device. Try holding the assy. above the horizontal position when pumping to preclude urine from gettng into the intake side of the pump.

Regards, Old Man

Title: Cleaning
Post by: Steve on July 23, 2006, 10:45:00 PM
One thing that I've found helps is a 'bottle brush'.  I picked up one at the grocery store made by Mr Clean.  It makes it easy to scrub the inside of the cylinder(s) clean of all lube.

Steve
Title: Traction Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 24, 2006, 09:13:39 AM
Hey guys,

I was just wondering how the traction devices are coming along for SteveW and Want It Straight?  Any new increases in size from the device?  Have you made it a normal part of your day to wear it?

ComeBackid
Title: Traction
Post by: Liam on July 24, 2006, 09:44:31 AM
I use it almost every day.  The first 45 min to 1 hour with heat.  Some of the lost length has been regained.  No more "turtle effect". ;D
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 24, 2006, 11:21:07 AM
Old Man,

I tried putting lube on the black insert rings, and on the inside of the c tube where they insert into.  This did seem to help with the air leakage, but I still have a very slight tiny amount of air leakage, I can't seem to figure out what the issue is with it. Next time I talk to Mike I will ask him about it.

Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: howcanthisbe on July 24, 2006, 09:45:09 PM
I just started thinking today..... im a little confused on why the VED is diffrent from getting a normal erection. I mean if you get a normal erection isnt that the same thing the ved gives you? Maybe im confused here, but how does a ved erection differ from a normal one. Thanks
Title: VED's different
Post by: Liam on July 24, 2006, 10:30:47 PM
Its the inner tube (not to be confused with the innertube) that prevents the penis from curving which makes the difference.  The pump gives direct control.

Also, as it is common for men with Peyronies Disease to have some degree of erectile dysfunction, the VED allow a fuller erection (not related to a Fuller Brush).
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Hawk on July 24, 2006, 10:45:43 PM
Quote from: howcanthisbe on July 24, 2006, 09:45:09 PM
I just started thinking today..... im a little confused on why the VED is diffrent from getting a normal erection. I mean if you get a normal erection isnt that the same thing the ved gives you? Maybe im confused here, but how does a ved erection differ from a normal one. Thanks

Liam makes valid points but in some ways a normal erection is better.
Title: Normal Erections are Better
Post by: Liam on July 24, 2006, 11:00:49 PM
AMEN to that!
Title: Re: Normal erections are better
Post by: Old Man on July 24, 2006, 11:25:23 PM
Yes, getting normal erections are much better than those obtained by VEDs, unless of course you can't get one. However, when one is rendered impotent for whatever reason and can't get/maintain an erection, one raised by the VED can and will work very well. Have been there and done that!

Good luck all of you who can still mount a normal erection.

Old Man
Title: Old Man Nailed it!
Post by: Liam on July 24, 2006, 11:29:36 PM
I think we should change your screen name to "The Man" cause, "You da Man"  :)

Title: Re: Thanks for the name, but no.
Post by: Old Man on July 25, 2006, 10:43:37 AM
Liam:

Thanks for thinking about a new name for me, but I believe the old one fits me better. The main reason is that I am old in the Peyronies Disease world and old in age. At 77 one does tend to think in older terms.

However, I do like the term, thanks again.

Regards to everyone. Old Man and getting older!
Title: Soma Insurance Coverage
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 25, 2006, 03:48:48 PM
Old Man and others,

Mike and I finally got Dr. Carrol to change the prescription to 607.85- peyronies disease, instead of the .89 he had down which was Other Specified Disorders of the Penis, Mike has sent him the updated paperwork which he is to sign today and send back to Mike.  The insurance I have will only pay for the VED if its prescribed for impotence or peyronies, originally they had said only impotence but Mike convinced them on peyronies.  Finally after two months of battling people and hours on the phone I just might get that payout!   :o

For anyone else that is looking to get their VED covered 607.84 is the impotence diagnosis, most insurance companies will only accept this.

Title: SomaCorrect Manual
Post by: flexor on July 25, 2006, 04:17:12 PM
Just some ramblings about the questions being asked about the use of the SomaCorrect.

I recall a posting of a FDA regulation concerning vacuum erection devices, which said they could be sold without regulation provided they met certain requirements. One of those was that you were not allowed to claim that it was suitable for Peyronies disease. (I thought that posting was on this board, but I can't find it, and it may have been another board.)

Augusta had been selling the SomaErect for erection problems, and the SomaCorrect for Peyronies Disease. Thus I suspect that Augusta was put in the position that they could sell their erection aid without regulation, but if they were to claim it was suitable for Peyronies Disease, they would have to apply for approval, with costs, time, and medical evidence which seems thin on the ground. The result appears to be that Augusta now do not make any claim in relation to Peyronies Disease, which allows them to sell their VED freely..

If you look at their site (www.augustams.com)you will find that the names SomErect and Soma Correct are still in use, deal with ED only, appear on the same page, and do not mention Peyronies Disease.

I bought my SomaCorrect for Peyronies Disease from an agent in the UK. It arrived with all the constriction rings for ED, which I was not concerned about, but the literature was for the SomaErect. I spoke to the salesman, who sent me a SomaCorrect manual. This is a 32 page booklet, with a colour cover, which suggests it is an original publication,  dated  2002. On the cover, it says "SomaCorrect Peyronie's Correction Therapy". I guess it was issued before the FDA ruling. If you lookat the Augusta site now, you can buy a SomaCorrect manual for $6, but I bet it makes no mention of Peyronies Disease.  The picture on my copy is different from the current, and though Peyronies Disease is mentioned on my cover, it does not appear to be mentioned on the new one.

Thus we have the silly situation that you can buy a SomaCorrect and use it for Peyronies Disease, but Augusta is not allowed to tell you how to use it for Peyronies Disease.

In fact, the booklet is quite useful. It has a brief history of Peyronies Disease (complete with a picture of La Peyronie), summarises current treatments, and describes the SomaCorrect therapy. It tells you how to use and look after the equipment, with illustrations. It suggests how to get a good seal, (suggests trimming - not shaving - the pubic hair). It includes the 26-week protocol, showing how to alternate the cylinders, and even a chart to plot monthly progress ( Curvature: better/worse/same. Pain: better/worse/same).  All in all, a very useful booklet which answers many of ther queries which keep arising on this board.

I could scan this booklet, and post it on the forum, but it is copyrighted, which might cause the board trouble, and since it is a document that Augusta has withdrawn, that might cause them regulatory and legal problems.

What has crossed my mind is whether I should rewrite the booklet, using the information, but taking out stuff which is elementary for this board (do you really want to know: "Researchers have injected cehmical agents such as Verapamil, collagenase, steriods and calcium channel blockers directly into the plaques. These interventions are still considered unproven because studies have included low numbers of patients and have lacked adequate control groups.") ?

If I then sent it to Old Man for adding to in the light of his extensive experience, and then posted it to the Association library, it may be a more helpful document than the original.

It also crosses my mind that as newcomers come to the board, in the absence of any information from the VED manufacturer, they will be asking again and again the same questions that are being asked now.

Title: Soma Manual
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 25, 2006, 04:21:53 PM
Flexor,

I did not even know they had a manual but would certainly be useful for me and I'm sure many others, I got absolutely no instructions with mine other than the schedule using the different cylinders.  I did know that Augusta could not advertise the Soma Correct for peyronies cause they have to prove more studies first, thats why I didn't understand why the insurance would pay for the peyronies diagnosis code, but apparently they are willing to pay for it, or Mike convinced them they should.  I think we should get that booklet on the site somewhere, maybe the resource library since so many people are using a Soma, it could also rid us of redundant questions.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Larry H on July 25, 2006, 05:13:55 PM
Flexor:

I just received my SC from Augusta and found what you mentioned. Not a word in any literature about Peyronie's. There is no question that the FDA has hit them about their Peyronies Disease advertising.

Two years ago or so, an employee of Augusta who's name escapes me, was posting as a Peyronies Disease patient on the BTC site. When it was found out that he was an employee of Augusta, which he admitted, he took some heat. He still claimed he had Peyronies Disease, but was told when he posted in the future to sign his name and state that he is an Augusta employee. To the best of my knowledge he has done that ever since. He is now, and perhaps was then, their national sales manager.

Anyway, from reading his posts I went to the Augusta site and carefully studied their info on the Soma Correct. What caught my eye was the statement that by using their program the "plaque is broken down, absorbed into the body and eliminated" or something to that effect. I posted a note to him on the BTC and hit him pretty hard about that claim as being pure BS. The plaque may be stretched and re-formed in some way to improve the bend and lost length and girth, but it does not break it down and eliminate it. That would be a cure! He wrote back that the matter was being reviewed interanally, and those claims would be removed in the future. They never were, and I think it brought the FDA down on their necks to the point that Augusta can't even mention Peyronie's.

My uro thought the Soma program would be good for me to try, so his office had the Augusta rep contact me. He had already checked out my insurance and said it would cover all but $47.00 for the thing. However, he was talking about the Soma Erect. I told him I wanted the Soma Correct with 3 cylinders. He advised that it would cost cost me another $100.00 as my insurance would only cover the other model. The rep never mentioned Peyronies Disease, and never acknowledged it when I did, only that if I wanted the Soma Correct my cost would be $147.00, and that's what I got. I think everyone can read between the lines and see what is going on here.

A part of all of this makes me feel like I'm dealing with the snake oil crowd. On the other hand legitimate medical research using the device is on going, it does seem to be medical quality, and it does seem to have helped so many that after much thought I wanted to give it a try. My hope is that the Augusta sales people just got carried away with their marketing and made a huge and stupid mistake. Well see.

My Best,

Larry
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Larry H on July 26, 2006, 04:23:18 PM
When I made the post below yesterday I had not read the Augusta VED uproar. I was away from the board for a couple of months when this occurred. I just read all of the posts and I'm shocked to say the least. I still believe the product is good, but I have serious questions about the management.

I am going to ask Hawk if anything is new in the matter, and if things still stand as posted I am going to contact Julian Osbon as a new owner of the product, and ask for an explanation and/or investigation. Anyone who would attempt such act is despicable and needs to be removed from the company. If the company does not see it that way then perhaps we as Peyronies Disease patients need to make our urologists aware of the situation and boycott the product.

In any case they need a fair hearing and they need to respond.

Larry
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: George999 on July 26, 2006, 05:15:52 PM
Hello all,  first of all let me say that I do not use a VED and at this point do not feel the need to use one.  But I do have some general comments that I would like to throw out here.

First of all, it is sad to see these days so many companies with fine products that nevertheless feel the need to lie and to astroturf in order to try to promote sales.  Why can't they just label their products for what they are and identify themselves when they post to forums rather than trying to represent themselves as what they aren't?  It is all just so stupid.  I have noticed for example a number of sites selling maca that brazenly claim that it boosts testosterone levels.  Not only is this not proven, the research has been done and it has been proven to be false.  The people who do these things are either ignorant or dishonest, neither of which does much for my level of trust.

My second concern would be with the use of the VED itself.  First of all, I can see potential value not only in stretching the plaque itself, but also in stretching the tissue around the plaque.  But that leads to a possible concern.  If either the plaque or the tissue around the plaque are stretched too much, that risks reigniting inflamation which will only trigger the buildup of more plaque.  Thus, simply stretching plaque, not only might not make it go away, it might make it worse.  So if I was using a VED, I would be very concerned about controlling inflamation.  I would also be concerned about having a strategy that would gradually disolve collagen itself, since that is what the plaque is composed of, and even the normal tissue can be collagen heavy and lack normal amounts of elastin and thus be, in a sense, atrophied.  This whole problem of excess collagen is actually very similar to what happens with cardiovascular disease.  To understand this check out the wikipedia reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atherosclerosis .  Note especially the reference to collagen:
QuoteArteriosclerosis ("hardening of the artery") results from a deposition of tough, rigid collagen inside the vessel wall and around the atheroma. This increases the stiffness, decreases the elasticity of the artery wall.
So unless we can deal with the collagen issue, the same problem is just going to continue to return just like it does when you stretch an artery without stenting it.  I am not saying this with the intention of being negative, quite the opposite.  I think that combined with a strategy to knock out the plaque (collagen), the VED can be quite effective.  At this point, my anti collagen strategy (sans VED) is aloe vera and L-Arginine.  It seems that both of these are known to be able to disolve plaque.  Also important is avoiding anything that might promote collagen like, for example beta blockers.

- George
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 26, 2006, 05:42:58 PM
George999,

I agree with you on the false advertising these days with pills and what not. There are so many scoundrals out there to make a quick buck off us desperate people.  Take for example PDLabs, which promoted their product at an 80% efficacy, even backing it with a medical study from a credible certified doctor.  I think in regards to the VED there are many unanswered questions surrounding it, but a handful have reported successful results with it.  I think if one is safe with it and does not overpump, this will minimize the risk of causing further inflammation.  Since we can associate inflammation with pain, if one feels pain while or after using the VED they should stop for awhile, and next time proceed with less pumping action, I think that is a fair assumption to make.

I really hate the lies and deception from the sales community, it really makes me more and more skeptical when a new product or drug comes up.

ComeBackid
Title: Soma Correct
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 27, 2006, 01:25:38 PM
Has anyone noticed moving from cylinder A on the Soma Correct to cylinder B pinching around the base of their penis as they pump to an erection?  I noticed the small gap between the end of the black insert and the B tube.  When pumping with the A cylinder I did not notice this problem at all, but now its a very distinct pinching, not very comfortable.

Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices; Progress Report
Post by: Mick on July 27, 2006, 02:26:46 PM
Two days ago, July 25, I completed the 5th month of the Soma Correct protocol.  There has been no measurable change during the past month, nor has there been any in the past 3 months; however, the progress of the first 2 months was so great that there really wasn't much left to do, except for the placque.  In summary, I have regained 1/2 inch in length, 5/8 inch in girth, and a reduction in curve from 15 degrees dorsal to zero.  The placque is still there and seems to be unchanged, but may not be so thick as it was.  The protocol during the last month, which I have just begun, calls for use of cylinder C only, so perhaps there will be more change.  I'll let you know on Aug. 25.

Respy, Mick   
Title: SomaCorrect
Post by: flexor on July 27, 2006, 02:36:41 PM
Further to my post, I found the document I described: www.fda.gov/cdrh/ode/guidance/1231.html#5

This refers to "External Penile Rigidity Devices". It effectively states that the purpose of these devices is to induce an erection adequate for sexual intercourse. If it does that, and makes no claims for doing anything else, and complies with the Guidance, then the device does not require regulatory approval.

It is dated December 2004, so manufacturers would have had to amend their literature to limit their claims in 2005.

The document includes recommended labelling instructions that would enable the manufacturer to meet the Guidance,including specific recommendations for the labelling of vacuum pumps, most of which is common sense. But one is as follows:

"use of a vacuum pump may aggravate already existing conditions such as Peyronie's disease (the formation of hardened tissue in the penis that causes pain, curvature, and distortion, usually during erection); priapism (persistent, usually painful erection of the penis as a consequence of disease and not related to sexual arousal); and urethral strictures (urethral stricture is an area of hardened tissue, which narrows the urethra sometimes making it difficult to urinate)."

It offers no references for this statement, and the whole sentence is a bit odd – why would anyone with priapism be even using a VED ? He'd need a device to get it down, not get it up !

In years of following boards, I have come across posts of men for whom a VED offered improvement in their Peyronies Disease, and many more who said it made no difference. But I have never come across a post that said a VED made it worse.

Unfortunately, true or false, the statement is there in black and white.
Title: FDA Warnings
Post by: Liam on July 27, 2006, 04:28:07 PM
The FDA warning is there for the same reason as the warning on a curling iron: Do Not Insert Curling Iron Into Any Bodily Orifice.  It's called: Cover Your Assets  ;)

The warning is like the points on "Who's Line is it Anyhow" (They don't count).
Title: Reply to ComeBackid
Post by: Steve on July 28, 2006, 09:56:21 AM
This is my reply to a PM from ComeBackid asking about a pinching issue with the Soma Correct.  I thought I'd post my reply for other's to view/comment.

ComeBackid,

Yeah, the letters have worn/washed off the cylinders, so I can no longer read them.  Whenever it's time for a new week, I just refer to the schedule (where I keep track of which size to switch to) where I've got the cylinders recorded

I'm in week 10 of the protocol, although I've been at it for longer than 10 weeks.  As I told you before, when I've got to take a week off (Boy Scouts or something), when I resume, I repeat the previous week's protocol to 'get back on schedule'.  This wasn't recommended anywhere, it's just something I've come up with to make-up for the missed weeks.

I haven't noticed any pinching yet with the large insert and the 'B' cylinder...guess I'm lucky? Old Man did mention in an earlier post that he'd been in contact with Augusta regarding the pinching issue, and that they were looking into it.  We might see if he has any further insite into this.

Steve
Title: Re: Pinching with Soma Correct inserts
Post by: Old Man on July 28, 2006, 02:42:06 PM
Steve:

Yes, I have been in contact with the Augusta people about the pinching effect. It is supposed to be corrected with the newer model VED that is coming out possibly as early as August (not sure about this). The pinching is caused by sharp edges on the inserts and the gap between the cylinders and the insert(s). Don't know if the inserts for the new model will retrofit the older Soma units or not. Will ask that question the next contact I have with Augusta.

I was instructed by the rep at Augusta that if the pinching effect occured that possibly the user was using the small insert along with the B & C cylinders. The small insert is designed to be used only when using the small A cylinder. When using B & C cylinder(s) use only the large insert.

Should the user desire to obtain an erection using the large C cylinder, one must be careful when sliding the retainer ring off the cylinder and it is strongly suggested to use the large insert as well. The end of C cylinder is rather sharp edged and could possible cause the user a problem.

Regards, Old Man

Title: Soma Results?
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 28, 2006, 04:58:01 PM
Steve,

You've said you've seen no results thus far, but when your done pumping is your penis a little bigger and more full with blood?  If you took a week off that probably severly affected the treatment, after it, its probably like starting over.  I wouldn't get discouraged cause of this I would simply stick with it.  I had some leakage in the A cylinder for a few days, did a few extra days on the A cylinder to make up for those poor workout days, now I've moved to cylinder B but have experienced the pinching.  One way to lessen the pinching I've learned is to put lots of lube in the gap between the end of the cylinder and the black insert.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Steve on July 28, 2006, 05:58:12 PM
When in doubt, ALWAYS use more lube ;D

Yeah, I know that to get the most out of the protocol, I should keep it up each and every day, but there are situations that come up the preclude my use of the VED (Camping out with Boy Scouts for example).  So, rather than starting over at week 1 each and every time I miss a week, I've justified (in my mind at least) that re-doing the week just prior to my week off will kind of get me back on schedule.

I have noticed more blood flow (redder color) after using the VED, but I haven't really noticed any change in size afterwards.  My main 'measure' is my angle which is still at 70 degrees just behind the Glans.  It's been this same angle (and I've got the weekly photos to prove it) since before I started any treatments, which has now been a full year ago!

I'm not giving up hope yet (and probably never will -- I'm just a born optomist), and I figure that with my re-starts, it'll probably take me 7-8 months to get through the 6-month protocol.  I'll let you and everyone else know if (when ;)) I start getting results.

Steve
Title: Re: Letter to Julian Osbon
Post by: Larry H on July 30, 2006, 05:05:19 PM
Pasted below is a letter that will go out in tomorrows mail. I'm sure most of you know the background so I won't go into detail. However, if any of you have any questions just drop me a note.

My Best,

Larry



Irvin L. Holcombe
44 Quinton Oaks Lane
Callao, Virginia 22435


July 31, 2006

Mr. Julian Osbon
Augusta Medical Systems
P.O. Box 10026
Augusta, GA 30903-9978

Dear Mr. Osbon:

I am a Peyronie's patient and a Peyronie's advocate currently working as director of Peyronies Disease awareness for the Peyronie's Disease Society www.PeyroniesSociety.org. Also, I am a AMS customer since I purchased a SomaCorrect several weeks ago on the recommendation of my urologist in Richmond, VA. My purpose in writing is to bring to your attention a very disturbing matter that occurred this past April, and which I only became aware of several days ago.

On April 28th a post was made on our forum by new member relating a very sad story about his Peyronies Disease, and how it cost him a marriage and so forth. He then said that a urologist in Alabama suggested a vacuum device, and wonderful things began to happen, including saving his life. He then went on to thank Augusta Medical Systems and the SomaCorrect. It was a very nice story except that it was all a lie. It seems that the post came from your office on a computer used by your director of marketing.

I don't think that I need to elaborate on how despicable it is to pray on the fragile emotions of people affected with this horrible disease, or any disease for that matter, for any gain, but especially monetary gain. It is simply beyond my comprehension that any legitimate company would allow this to happen. This is such a despicable act that I felt that you must not be aware of it since no adequate action or explanation has been forthcoming, and I felt that it should be brought to your attention.

I know that Augusta Medical Systems is involved with urologists around the country and world. I know that your SomaCorrect is being studied for Peyronie's treatment, and that one of the top Peyronies Disease urologists, Dr. Laurence Levine in Chicago is involved in the study. I have to believe that if this became common knowledge within the urological community, it would have a devastating impact on your company.

We have well over five hundred members on our forum, and most all are aware and upset over this matter. I'm sure they would have strong feelings if their urologists recommended the Soma device.

Mr. Osbon I don't think you can let this stand. As a Peyronie's patient, a Peyronie's advocate, and an Augusta customer, am requesting that you do an in-house investigation, find out the facts and dismiss any employees involved in this act. I am going to post this letter on our forum (www.peyroniesforum.net), and I will post your reply and the results of your investigation and actions. This will give you a chance to clear your company and put the matter to rest. We all want to believe that AMS is a reputable and responsible company. Hopefully this was the act of one individual, on their own, and in no way is sanctioned by the company.

Sincerely,



Larry Holcombe
Title: Red Pin Sized Dots
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 30, 2006, 07:20:59 PM
Has anyone else noticed red pin sized dots after using the VED?  I've just noticed them since I"ve moved to 800 IUs of vitamin E, which is considered the dosage to act as a blood thinner.  I'm wondering if this has caused them, considering I never had any pain when pumping.  I've since discontinued taking vitamin E altogether, so I will report back if the dots go away, if anyone else has had a similar experience please post.

Also someone had posted on the BTC that Dr. Levine has exact pumping directions for the VED, I don't believe that I've ever seen these, if anyone knows of them or has them, posting would be of great help.  I believe the post on the BTC regarding this was made by "Kid."

ComeBackid
Title: Petechiae
Post by: Liam on July 30, 2006, 07:51:24 PM
Clinical trial of a simplified vacuum erection device for impotence treatment.

Sidi AA, Lewis JH.

Department of Urologic Surgery, University of Minnesota Hospital and Clinic, Minneapolis.

Thirty-one men participated in a clinical trial of a simplified vacuum erection device (Catalyst) in which the pump and penile cylinder have been combined to facilitate the pumping required to induce a vacuum. Of the 28 men who completed the three-month trial, 26 (93%) reported overall satisfaction with the device and an intention to continue its use, and 2 men were unable to maintain a satisfactory erection. Episodes of mild bruising or development of petechiae occurred in 9 men. None of the complications required treatment or prevented safe use of the device. Our experience with this new vacuum device indicates a high degree of patient satisfaction and minimal complications. On average, patients rated ease of use high at all follow-up visits.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial

PMID: 1615600 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Source:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1615600&dopt=Abstract

petechiae:
(peh-TEE-kee-a): Pinpoint, unraised, round red spots under the skin caused by bleeding.
www.columbia-stmarys.org/14569.cfm
Title: Petechiae
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 30, 2006, 08:15:39 PM
Liam,

My research also showed what I have to be petechiae, apparently it is popped or aggravated blood vessels.  I had remember Hawk telling me to be careful with being on vitamin E as a blood thinner at the 800IU or greater dosage, cause it can cause this to happen.  I was just wondering if anyone else has gotten this from using the VED?  Steve reported to me that he was on blood thinners and used the VED and did not have this occur.  As I said before I had no pain when pumping so I believe it could be solely attributed to being on the higher dosage of vitamin E, which I have since discontinued.

ComeBackid
Title: Hicky on my *****
Post by: Liam on July 30, 2006, 11:44:46 PM
I have had petechiae.  It went away on its own.  It only happened when I first started using the VED.  I pump a little slower now and have had no problem.  I have used it for  a year.

I'm not sure what you mean about exact pumping directions.  Old Man made this post with attachment.  Hope it is what you want.

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,25.msg2631.html#msg2631
Title: Pumping
Post by: ComeBacKid on July 30, 2006, 11:55:54 PM
Liam,

I was referring to a post made on the BTC by a "KID," he claimed Dr. Levine had specific instructions on pumping.  I believe I may have pumped up my penis to quickly and am going to slow down with that. I went to the vaccum therapy page (http://www.vacuumtherapy.org/extras.html), I found this really interesting, Mike Davis a representative from AMS had mentioned it to me before, but I was never at the site.  On the site I noticed it says Dr. Levine will be introducing a new protocol he came up with.  After researching this and reading on the old BTC and listening to Old Man, I think that this is the key treatment and probably the most effective.  The scar tissue clearly can be stretched slowly over time, especially if a bone can be stretched using traction, which would be much harder than scar tissue. 

On another note, anyone who is purchasing a VED and looking to get insurance coverage, all insurance companies cover the 607.84 code (impotence) and some cover 607.85 (peyronies), mine didn't cover the peyronies intitially, but Mike and I convinced them to cover the VED at their normal rate of 70%.  If you are trying to get it covered attempt to check ahead of time, as I just spent a month and a half battling for coverage. Look out for the 607.89, this is what Dr. Carrol prescribed for me initially, its "Other Specified Disorders of the Penis," most insurance companies will not cover this. 

ComeBackid
Title: Osbon Erecaid Classic model
Post by: zigwyth on July 31, 2006, 10:05:02 AM
FYI. If anyone is using the above model, and you are having problems with your scrotum sac being sucked up the cylinder, you can buy a smaller insert from Timm Medical of the Endocare div. Number was provided courtesy of Old Man. 1(800) 438-8592. I ordered one and should be receiving it soon. Is about $7.50 + s/h.
I also had to get my Doc to fill out necessary form to prescribe my condition as Peyronies Disease before My Ins. (Cigna) would cover the device @ 70%.
Zig The Twig
Title: Re: Added note on inserts for Osbon VEDs
Post by: Old Man on July 31, 2006, 10:37:02 AM
Note to all:

Need to add this note about the Osbon sizing inserts to Zig's post below. Those using either the Osbon Esteem or the Osbon Classic VEDs having a problem with the scrotum being drawn up into the cyinder or need the smaller size to get a good tight seal should order the inserts.

The Osbon Esteem comes with a longer (fitting into the cylinder mouth) than the Classic model which has a shorter insert. The Classic comes with a shorter one (same as above) and does not always provide a good seal, etc. BTW, as far as I know, the Osbon Esteem inserts work equally as well in the Classic as they do in the Esteem units.

As Zig says the updated inserts are available from Timm Medical as he stated. It is strongly suggested that you order the inner smaller insert for the Esteem model. And, for the Classic model, order both Esteem inserts, the  large outer and the smaller inner. Using these Esteem inserts for both units gives a much better and more comfortable fit and seal.

Above, FYI to all, regards, Old Man.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Rico on August 03, 2006, 12:19:49 PM
Old Man,

Have you heard anything on the Soma(new model) yet?

Also anyone else out there that knows how the ved or traction is going with the Levine study or anyone else out there that has had experience with this method. I have the hour glass hinge thing going on and I know this is one of the more difficult problems to deal with, so if anyone has had experience with this and the ved, please let me know. Thank you and God Bless.

Rico
Title: Re: New Soma VED Model
Post by: Old Man on August 03, 2006, 02:51:45 PM
Rico:

As far as I know now, rumor has it that the new Soma VED should hit the market sometime later this month.

Old Man
Title: New Soma Protocol
Post by: ComeBacKid on August 05, 2006, 11:56:58 PM
Rico,

Apparently the protocol Dr. Levine is working on is different than the 26 week protocol.  His protocol as far as I know will still use the three cylinder method. If you go to this site HERE (http://www.vacuumtherapy.org/extras.html) you will see that it was supposedly released at the AUA convention, I have not heard of this new protocol yet.  Also I have contacted vacuumtherapy in hopes of getting our web link placed on their page, currently they have the BTC link along with the APDA link. There definately seems to be much excitment in the Peyronies Disease community with the use of VEDS.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Rico on August 06, 2006, 01:14:35 AM
ComeBackid,

Thank you, that looks really promising! I like a plan, it has always made sense to me, The Old Man was ahead of his time:). They should give him free lube for life:). Thanks for the information, I can't wait for the new model to come out so I get get started on it. God Bless...Kudos to you Old Man, a real pioneer, and they always have to take a few arrows.

Rico
Title: Back to the needle
Post by: wantitstr8 on August 06, 2006, 08:38:55 AM
Hey all:

Just an update for you guys...I had another appointment with Dr. Levine on Friday.  He said he is getting some positive anecdotal reports on his traction study.  They are early results but he said several patients have conveyed their impression that the treatment seems to be helping.  The majority of the reports are anecdotal but encouraging anyway.  My progress has been mixed.  I think the traction is definitely helping, however, I have had a setback since I stopped the verapimil injections.  For those who were unaware, I had seen a reduction in curvature from about 45 degrees to about 20 degrees since starting the traction device.  I began using traction concurrently with Pentox and arginine (I had also been receiving VI with little effect prior to the addition of traction, pentox, and arginine).  I attributed the improvement to the pentox, arginine, and traction.  After stopping the VI for 6 weeks, it seems as though my conclusion may have been faulty.  After stopping the VI. I saw about a 10 degree "relapse".  To my great dismay, because of the pain involved, I began the VI again on Friday.  I had hoped that I wouldn't have to visit the needle again, however, I am returning to the treatment regimen that helped my condition the most.

My impression is as follows:  I think traction is helping, however, to provide the best possible chance of success I think it is necessary to "soften" the plaque somehow.  In my particular case, I think the pharmacological regimen and the VI are softening the plaque to allow the stretching to work.  I can't really say which drug is working, however, when done in combination, they seem to be doing enough to allow the traction to work.  As much as I hate the needle in the pecker, I'm going to go through another 6 shots and re-evaluate from there.
Title: Thoughts on VED
Post by: Rico on August 06, 2006, 12:10:51 PM
My gut and dealing with many sports injuries is that the VED is a better way to go than traction, first of all hanging with tension could work if the scar is not bi lateral(you don't have hour glass, just bending), but what I see more positive with the VED, is shorter and more controlled program. I have learn through trial and error with st recthing for more than thirty years of Martial Arts is that if you warm up a area(especially if injure with scar tissue) warm up slow, then short period of stretching. One day a little more, then next a little less, go to more and less, cycle, constant and only to 70% during the time you are remolding the plaque. When I read the week one, week two using the different size tubes and then going back and doing this for 26 weeks and ending with the large tubes, in my Heart, and from experience, I said YES!!!!! Thank you ComeBackid for putting it on the forum, and thank YOU again OLD Man for leading the way....

I haven't started this yet, waiting on new model soma correct to come out this month. I just feel that the Old Man and other pioneers have helped in making it better. If you think of blowing up the whole penis with warm blood vs hanging cold, it is a no brainier to me...and the good doctors who have a interest with fastsize ect...of course they will want it to work, once again, my thoughts are from sport injuries and common sense:)...God Bless You all on this Bless Day....I will say a Lord's Pray for all of you today...PUMP IT UP!!!!!!  I think I will get a bumper sticker ....  Have you Pumped today:)   To Pump or Not to Pump....that is the question...

Subject line on this post edited for easy reference
Title: Verapamil Options
Post by: Tim468 on August 07, 2006, 07:28:10 AM
To Wantitstraight...

Has your doc (or you) considered iontophoresis for the verapamil? It might be a better way to go - though I think we have a lot to learn about how well that method delivers drugs.

Tim





Subject line on this post edited for easy reference
Title: Re: Verapamil Options
Post by: wantitstr8 on August 07, 2006, 09:06:41 AM
No mention of ionto...although I think if Levine was confident about he ability of the process to drive the drug into the tissue he would be trying it.  In my case I was making progress,  it is possible that the VI had nothing to do with it...it is also possible that the VI was the missing link in my treatment for the last 6 weeks.  In any event, I think the prudent thing to do is to return to the same regimen I was on when I was improving...we'll see from there.  (I do hate the shots though)...





Subject line on this post edited for easy reference
Title: Dr. Levine's protocols
Post by: ComeBacKid on August 07, 2006, 02:22:42 PM
Thats odd, Dr. Carrol from Orlando, Florida told me he is close with Dr. Levine, and that his protocol was to use IONOtophorersis to soften the plaque, and use the Soma Correct then to "remold," the scar tissue and straighten out the penis.  I find it odd that Dr. Levine would not have most of his patients on the Ionotophoresis treatments, especially if he believed they worked.  I'm starting to have serious doubts about IONO.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Larry H on August 07, 2006, 05:15:42 PM
ComeBackid:

Dr. Levine is really the  guru of verapamil injections. To the best of my mind he developed the method of injecting verapamil into the plaque by placing it in several needle tracks with a single puncture. He has published many papers on his procedure.

Larry
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on August 07, 2006, 06:34:04 PM
Larry,

Yeah he is the guru of verapamil injections, but do they really work?  Based on our PDS member poll I'd say they aren't to effective.  I'm not questioning the injections though, I thought Dr. Levine currently had a study going with Iono treatments and the soma correct, based on what Dr. Carrol told me.  I also thought that Dr. Levine is giving the IONO treatments as well, if they are so effective, you'd think he'd be offering them to every patient that walks through his door, apparently not.

ComeBackid
Title: Ionto & Dr Levine
Post by: Steve on August 07, 2006, 06:41:54 PM
Back a year or so ago, when I began this strange journey, I remember researching on-line the current state of treatment, and I found a number of papers by Dr Levine regarding the apparent effectiveness of Ionto (which he referred to as TEA - Transdermal Electromotive Administration).  Based on his released results from these papers, I'm a little surprised that he's still recommending the injections.

Steve
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Larry H on August 07, 2006, 08:11:49 PM
ComeBackid:

I didn't address the effectiveness of the treatments. I had 12 of them and my condition got worse. I only said that he is a proponent of VI, and a moving force behind them. That's a fact.

Steve:

He is not only still recommending them, he is still giving them, and he is also in the study with VI and the VED.

Larry
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: wantitstr8 on August 07, 2006, 09:05:00 PM
I think we can all agree that there is no silver bullet for this disorder.  VI seems to work in some cases, in other cases they fail to stop the progression.  The numbers are out there and it is up to everyone to make their own decisions.  Personally, I hate the shots...the numbing shots are painful as hell...but when I was taking the shots combined with Pentox, Arginine, and traction I saw significant improvement.  I improperly attributed the improvement to Pentox and traction...I got off the shots for 6 weeks and my curvature worsened...so shots here I come again.  Not saying this will work for anybody else but it was working for me.  As far as the clinical studies are concerned, I only know about the traction study (which I do not qualify for because of the VI)  Levine also prescribed the Somacorrect for me back in March, I used it several times but it made the lesions ache for days so I put it on the shelf (where it stays now).  Levine has never offered me Ionto...never even mentioned it, but based on his extensive work in Peyronies Disease, I would be surprised if he isn't well aware of the process.  Personally, I am willing to suffer through the injections if I can see substantial improvement...I was on the road once, but mistakenly got sidetracked.  My mistake...
Title: On the Road Again
Post by: Liam on August 07, 2006, 09:33:25 PM
Wantitstr8,

I would do the same in your shoes.  If it is working, stay with it!

"On the road again."  ::::singing like Willie::::

Good Luck,

Liam
Title: If it works do it
Post by: ComeBacKid on August 07, 2006, 09:42:40 PM
Want It,

I would have to say I would definately go for the VI, especially since you stated after you got off the injections you saw a worsening, perhaps in the end you will just not be able to determine whatever works, but oh well, as long as something is working, stick with the same routine, that is my philosophy, I'm on a slew of stuff right now myself. Good luck bro.

Larry H,

Yeah I knew he was a moving force behind the VI, I'm just surprised that he isn't a moving force behind the Iontophoresis treatments as well, considering that is a noninvasive technique to delivery the verapamil and decadron. If one believes the study published by PHYSION, the results are hard to over look, on top of this Dr. Carrol had said Dr. Levine is currently doing a study with the soma correct and the Iontophoresis treatments, which he said Dr. Levine is a big supporter of.   ???


ComeBackid
Title: On doctors doing different things...
Post by: Tim468 on August 08, 2006, 12:12:56 PM
Maybe Dr. Carroll had it wrong.

I thin that all clinicans develop some preferences, and they are not always rational. Like us patients, doctors develop favorite ways to do what they do, based on personal preference and not a "cold look" at the data. I do some things for my patients in a slightly different way than my partners. It's really OK.

The MOST important issue in clinical care is being ready and willing and able to look at an interim analysis of results, and to modify therapy if needed. So if I were to make some assumptions about every asthma patient I see, and to always be completely right, well, then I would never have to schedule a followup visit. Instead, I may see that albuterol serves them well, but that they still show too much instability, and so I would add an inhaled steroid. For another patient, I might determine that they needed both drugs, and after a second visit, take away their steroid. The key feature is to pay attention and to modify therapy if it does not work.

One final thing: if you came to me for wheezing, and I did one of the above steps, you would probably leave feeling good about my attention to detail. If you came back and saw my partner, and he did the exact same thing (i.e. added an inhaled steroid), you may walk away wondering why Dr. Tim didn't see how bad your asthma really was. I think the key features are to get a good doctor and continue to work with him or her, and to rcognize that a new physician may bring in new ideas, but is also going to have the advantage of seeing what already worked or didn't work.

Tim
Title: HELP!
Post by: BentPeePee on August 10, 2006, 04:09:10 PM
Hey Everybody.  I'm the new guy on the block.  New-guy-with-a-bent-penis-on-the-block I should say.  I'm 42 and have had Peyronie's forever, it seems. 

I went to the urologist, and he put me on vitamin E, did the ultra sound, and has now scheduled me for "the shot treatment."  10 shots of that V-whatever stuff starting next week.  So, obviously, I have a lot of questions.

1.  Do they hurt like holy hell or are they tolerable (as my urologist states)?

2.  Do they help?  I have curvature of about 45 degrees to the right.

3.  What are the pumps and other treatments you are talking about here?

4.  Please give me some sound advice.  I would like to have this thing taken care of within the next several (6-12) months.  Is that possible? 
Title: Shots!
Post by: Steve on August 10, 2006, 04:52:33 PM
BPP,

First, welcome to the board...you're in good company.

Regarding the shots with Verapamil (which you'll often see here referred to as VI - Verapamil Injections), I went through 12 of them, and as I remember, 2 of them (the third and I think about the 10th) HURT A LOT :'(  The others were tolerable after getting through the numbing shot -- did your Uro tell you that there would be 2 shots each time?  One to kill the pain, and the next with the Verapamil.  Because the numbing shot happens before you're numb, they tend to be quite uncomfortable!  Afterwards though (except for those two times), it's not too bad.  On those 2 occasions, it felt like the needle was sticking all the way through my penis!!!!! :o :o :o

As to your second question, regarding the effectiveness of the shots?  Well 12 for me did absolutly nothing.  There was no change to the angle (mine's at 70 degrees), nor the hourglass shape.  Hawk did a survey a few months back of people who'd undergone the VI, and the results from that poll were less than impressive -- if I remember right, only 1 person out of about 15 respondents actually showed any improvement.  The survey is still on-line here somewhere.  Let me know if you have trouble finding it, and I'll try and dig up the link.

I'm currently trying a VED (Vacuum Erection Device), and after 11 weeks of 'excercising', I still have the same 70 degree bend.  Others however (check all the posts from OldMan) have shown a definite, positive result from the vacuum treatment.

Here's hoping that you'll respond to whatever treatment you and your Uro decide is best, and keep asking questions here on the board.  This seems to be the best place to find good information.


Steve
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Larry H on August 10, 2006, 05:06:56 PM
Bent:

Welcome to the PDS, but I'm am sorry you need to be here.

Your doc is going to start you on verapamil injections, a widely used but experiential treatment for Peyronies Disease, as they are not FDA approved. I had 12 of the treatments several years ago, and properly administered they do not hurt like hell. The are uncomfortable but tolerable.

Do they help? Well I can't say that they helped me as I still have about a 60 to 70 degree upward bend, a huge area of plaque, constriction of the shaft and loss of 2" in length. There is also concern by some urologists that this invasive treatment may in fact aggravate the condition if microtrauma is a cause as suspected. On the other hand limited studies have shown that the treatments have helped some. This is the treatment of choice employed by several of the top Peyronies Disease urologists in the country. In dealing with Peyronies Disease you'll need to educate yourself as much as possible, and then with input from your urologist, make your own decisions.

I assume the pumps you speak of are Vacuum Erection Devices, a device designed to assist men with ED to get and hold an erection suitable for intercourse. Recently they have been used by Peyronies Disease patients to exercise and stretch the area of plaque to allow the penis to expand more normally. There are studies going on around the country using the VED and verapamil. This may be something you want to discuss with your urologists.

[quote   I would like to have this thing taken care of within the next several (6-12) months.  Is that possible? 
[/quote]

If you are talking about curing the disease, no that is not possible unless you are one of the lucky few who have spontaneous resolution. There is no cure for Peyronies Disease and really no FDA approved treatments. Progress is being made but it has been slow. We here at the PDS are trying to get the ball rolling to educate the public about the disease and generate more interest with the pharmaceutical company's to research better treatments.

Again, you'll need to properly educate yourself about your disease, and this is an excellent place to start that education. You'll find a host of patients like yourself who have a great deal of knowledge on all aspects of Peyronies Disease. Of major importance is to understand the major psychological impact this condition can have on you and your wife or partner. Dealing with the mental side can be a very difficult task.

I hope this has been of some help, and I'm sure you'll be hearing from others. Feel free to contact me with other questions.

My Best,

Larry



Title: Update-Insurance Coverage on Soma
Post by: ComeBacKid on August 10, 2006, 05:37:57 PM
I wanted to give everyone who is trying to get their Soma Correct covered an update on my attempts to get insurance coverage.  My insurance initially had agreed to pay 70% of the $595, which would be about $400.  After a month of nagging Dr. Carrol and his secretary in Orlando, Florida to change the diagnosis code to 607.85 (peyronies) so the insurance company would accept it and pay out, they did change it and I mailed it in to my insurance company.  Today I called to check the status of my claim and the insurance company told me a check would be mailed out on Friday.  They then added that I will only recieve a check for $175, not $400 cause I went out of network and I only get 70% coverage on my allowable deductable.  This would be fine, but all along they were telling MIke Davis from Augusta Medical Systems that they would pay 70% and I would get $400 back.  I'm now appealing this and fighting the insurance company yet again.  They lied and decieved myself along with Mike Davis, and now are giving us the run around. My insurance company claimed that Augusta Medical Systems is overcharging for their product by hundreds, Mike says they provide lifetime services and a warranty on their product, and that the three cylinder system is superior to all other VED's on the market.  My insurance company knew all along that the product was  a Soma Correct, and agreed to pay 70%, or $400 back, never once mentioning anything about a deductable. 

I will also add that after MEDCO denied my three month purchase of topical verapamil 15%, I wrote a letter of appeal, and wrote to the Board of Trustees who oversee my insurance company operations.  I was informed today that MEDCO is mailing me a check for $600 and some odd dollars and that I won my appeal.  I would encourage everyone who gets denied to fight their claims aggressively and appeal to everyone they possibly can.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Rico on August 10, 2006, 06:26:08 PM
Has anyone heard anything about the new and improved VED Soma Correct, it suppose to be out this month and I want to buy one. Please let me know, are you out there OLD Man:).... You are a Saint! God Bless..

Rico
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 10, 2006, 10:30:43 PM
ComeBackid - good for you!

Normally, my motto is to "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity". But when it comes to insurance companies, that goes out the door. I wonder if Will Rogers would have said "I never met a man I didn't like" if he had had to go to a health insurance system...

Tim
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Rico on August 10, 2006, 10:50:01 PM
Tim,

Mark Twain said, "The More People I meet, the More I like my Dog". Take care...

Rico
Title: Exceptions
Post by: Liam on August 10, 2006, 11:04:12 PM
I can't remember if it was Groucho Marx or W. C. Fields that added, "I never met a man I didn't like.  But, in your case I'll make an exception."  Must have had to deal with insurance companies.


Liam
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 13, 2006, 12:20:21 PM
Not to promote any vendor over another, but I thought I would mention some possibly affordable ways to create a VED for oneself wiothout spending more than $450

Here is a fairly priced ($72 plus shipping) and high-quality penis pump cylinder (mamy sizes, but not graduated like SomaCorrect). Note that they also sell the connecting couplers for the tubing:

http://www.stockroom.com/pumps.htm

Here is their FAQ about pumping (fairly well written; semi-accurate):

http://www.stockroom.com/suction-faq.htm#09

Here is a link to a typical handpump via the internet (less than half the price of most sex-toy vendors):

http://secure.sciencecompany.com/Vacuum-Pump-with-Pressure-Gauge-P6489C692.aspx

The total expenditures can come to about $120. Not bad to get going with something that can be controlled and moderated carefully (using the guage on the pump).

I am now looking for a source of clear hard plastic pipe of the same quality that could be slid inside of my existing system for a reduced diameter (said to be helpful for straigtening curves).

Tim
Title: Acrylic tubing
Post by: Angus on August 13, 2006, 01:59:36 PM

   Tim, I have used clear acrylic tubing. It has no opacity, is well finished, tough and easy to work with. The source I used is:

http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=141&

   The inside and outside diameters of each size is listed in a drop-down menu. This source has the largest choice of tube sizes at a reasonable price that I've found so far.

   
Title: Tubing
Post by: BLBC on August 13, 2006, 02:55:59 PM
After looking at the site Angus listed, I wonder about pyrex tubing... It is very inexpensive and comes in various widths and wall thicknesses. I have some laying around here and will have to see what I can do with it.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 13, 2006, 03:06:35 PM
Thanks for the tip! The product looks like good quality. I dunno BLBC.. the Pyrex site I visited had the diameters listed in millimeters - amde me feel downright huge! But I hope that it doesn't shatter upon getting bumped....

::shudder::

Tim
Title: Tubing
Post by: BLBC on August 13, 2006, 03:15:12 PM
Tim, Pyrex is a very hard glass, shattering is not likely while in use. Heck I have dropped it on concrete and not had it shatter. My thinking is that glass would be cleaner and for me more readily available. Manipulating it (for me) would not be an issue as I have the tools and knowledge it would take. Heck, it could be interesting to make my husband a VED in art glass!
Title: Re: Plastic tubing
Post by: Old Man on August 13, 2006, 04:21:53 PM
Tim:

The home improvement stores all carry a good line of plastic tubing of all sizes. Lowe's, Home Depot and other of the larger chain stores are good sources of it.

Old Man.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 13, 2006, 07:25:30 PM
Old man - I have found a lot of PVC pipe, but none that is clear. I would even accept a semi-clear plastic (the hard acrylic is best), but so far it has been black or white. I have seen clear pipes inlaboratories, so I know it should be available to plumbers (somewhere - maybe in my lab building... hmmm.....), but so far no luck.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Rico on August 13, 2006, 08:18:21 PM
Tim,

They have many clear and different dia. and it is plastic, high impact. www.scandia-nh.com   Call me consecrative, but I'm not going to put my dick in a glass jar that was slap together in art class:)....now  who is the risk taker.....I hope you know I'm kidding  LOL!!!!!  Pump it up...It sounds like we have some old hippies here that use to make bongs! I want one of those rolling stones tongues on my mine, I can't remember what tour that was, but I think it was the hit pump me up!!!

There is always reinfraction magnification also, it could be filled with epsom water to make ones little buddy  look bigger, or a double hollow tube with magnets in it for Hawk, I think I'm going to see a patent coming from Tim, what is going on in your garage, we have all turn into Mad Scientist:)....and remember that this peyronies isn't just for straight males, you might want to build a couple pink ones, market and we should think about when it is cured, recycle, it is a noodle holder, so maybe pasta, plant holder, bong..ooppss I don't know if anyone would put there mouth on it...maybe the pink ones wouldn't care....build it and they will cum...

Rico
Title: Rico...
Post by: BLBC on August 13, 2006, 09:14:26 PM
Rico, Thank you so much for the laugh! I so needed it today. I work glass professionally so I'm not talking and art class modified bong bwhahahah! Did you know that there is a large market for glass dildo's? Why? Because they are much cleaner than laytex, rubber or plastic!  I can see a safe fun looking functional VED, but what excites me most about trying to make one from pyrex is that my DH may be more willing accept it and use it. Ultimately even both of us using it together.

I am familiar with the Rolling Stones lips and tongue, I have made some of those from glass and have always referred to them as "Licky Logo's" I have always been accepting of everyone's sexuality if it makes you happy go for it, but I'm not much into pink. There is a lovely purple color called Triple Passion...That would work well!  I don't make bongs (or pipes) but if one wanted to I'm sure a pyrex VED could be modified by the end user.... Ewwww!

Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Rico on August 13, 2006, 09:26:15 PM
BLBC,

I want one with Paris Hilton's head on top like a Peez dispensor, and when you pump it, she says "That's Hot!".

Rico
Title: Re: Clear Plastic pipe/tubing
Post by: Old Man on August 13, 2006, 11:01:35 PM
Tim:

I have found it at a Lowe's Home Improvement store in my hometown. They have various sizes in coils or on a spool. You sometimes have to ask an associate to find it as it is not always on open display. I bought lab supplies when I worked for the U.S. Air Force and most them have all kinds of plastic pipes as well as Lexan tubes/pipe, so they would also have most any kind one would need.

A lot of plumbers use for exposed areas, etc.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: Tubing
Post by: Hawk on August 14, 2006, 12:16:41 AM
The tubing in coils is probably not rigid enough and would be very difficult to make straight.  It also has a very thick wall.  I have used it for an outdoor ornamental pond.

Click below to read an old post by Angus which i think is a hall of fame post

Quote from: Angus on April 01, 2006, 11:31:02 PMimages and instructions on VEDs
Title: GRASTON
Post by: Rico on August 16, 2006, 01:09:39 PM
GRASTON TEHNIQUE: Soft tissue manipulation advance form, of myofasium release...for soft tissue dysfunction, which includes scar tissue...it is use to break up the scar tissue and absorb by the body...

This is a new technique being used by chiropractors for scar tissue, they have six different stainless steel instruments, the locate and find plaque and then break it up....

This is something that I have thought about myself, I had a big piece of scar tissue in my back, I would put tennis balls in a sweat sock, four of them, then I would lay on them on put my weight on the soles of my feet, and bridge up, and roll on the balls, sometimes I would use even wooden ones, which was pretty painful and not for the faint hearted, I could hear the feel of the scar tissue crunch. I also had my girlfriend at the time help me...she wasn't strong enough, so I made out of a wooden shovel Handel two pieces of wooden like thumbs or fingers, I made them about six inches long and taper the ends, she then could locate the scar tissue and put on her body weight and leverage with these in to my back, she hated it:), the scar tissue would break up, I had to git my teeth, but I wanted it to get better, and it helped...

I know doing this to ones penis is hard to do, I remember though seeing on the pds site with there fix all kit, they had acupuncture needles in it, this caught my attention.

I guess this all leads me to believe that VED is on the right track, I think by remolding the plaque, in away you are doing the same thing, they are doing with the scar tissue, maybe not as aggressive, but I would think if you did remold it to a thin state, it might break up also......

Rico
Title: An Idea about Hourglass
Post by: zigwyth on August 16, 2006, 03:48:32 PM
Welcome BPP, Falcone and any other newbies. I think I recall that the Hourglass is the most difficult to reshape or treat. I've been trying to figure out how I could get more vacuum to that area which is at my extreme base. Wondering if an insert can be made inside the cylinder(I have the Osbon Esteem Classic) to create more vacuum  in specific areas?? Just a thought
Ziggy
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 16, 2006, 05:49:16 PM
Fascinating Idea Zig. A side port which could have a secondary vacuum applied to it. Great idea. I will think on it - maybe we can get BLBC to make us one or two prototypes.

Tim
Title: Hourglass and ved thoughts
Post by: Angus on August 16, 2006, 07:30:35 PM

     Back to laymans ascii art. When using the small 1 1/2 inch VED tube there is full erection skin contact with the inside of the clear cylinder except for where the shafts Peyronies Disease indention is... this area doesn't inflate and a void inside the cylinder is seen as an area where the skin doesn't contact the inside of the tube. If a tube were created that had an outward bulge in the area of the erections indention, a secondary vacuum source could be attached to a small nipple of some kind attached to the bulges center and vacuum could be applied to the indenture area. A vacuum gauge would almost be paramount here, because such a small area to induce vacuum in would mean that vacuum -inches/Hg would build quickly and could mean disaster if overpumped. Alternately and possibly with more safety, a small air release valve could be installed on the tubes bulged area, and once the erection and tube is filled out completely, the valve could be released which would allow the trapped air pressure in the tubes bubble area to escape and possibly allow the scar/indenture area to stretch outward a little. The VED induced erection would provide blood pressure from within as the outward stretching force. The 1 1/2 inch tube at full erection would be limiting further expansion of the erection except for the area of the tubes outward bulge that is positioned over the Peyronies Disease scar area. I'm still in the brainstorming stages and juggling thoughts... my idea is crudely represented below.
  ___
  l    l
  l    l
  l    \_
  l     l_l
  l    /
  l    l
  l    l
Title: The French Tickler!
Post by: Rico on August 16, 2006, 07:36:25 PM
Angus You know I love ya, and I saw your VED, and they are the state of the art, BUT....I think you would end up with a French Tickler on this one! Keep brain storming brother:)!

Rico
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: BLBC on August 16, 2006, 07:43:37 PM
Quote from: Tim468 on August 16, 2006, 05:49:16 PM
Fascinating Idea Zig. A side port which could have a secondary vacuum applied to it. Great idea. I will think on it - maybe we can get BLBC to make us one or two prototypes.

Tim

Ummmmm custom made VED's with chambers located for your wonderful dents.... Well THAT is something to mull over... I would need detailed photos with measurments and... Ummmmmm never mind!
Title: Re: VED stretching of hourglass indentation
Post by: Old Man on August 16, 2006, 10:58:49 PM
Note to all:

All of your ideas listed below might prove to be a viable means of appling added pressure to the hourglass area, but word of caution, do not, repeat, do not use too much pressure at any time. More pressure used in one spot higher than another on the penile shaft can and will cause more trauma if not handled very carefully. I know, been there and done that!!

Now, for a suggestion that has worked for me and many others using the Osbon Esteem and/or the Soma Correct VED. I have developed a stretching exercise that works sort of like milking a cow's teat. It has been successful for several of us and it does not use any more vacuum pressure than is necessary for the regular VED exercises.

If any one is interested in knowing how this is done, let me know and I will work with you by PM, email or on the main forum here.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: BLBC on August 16, 2006, 11:26:46 PM
Old Man, I want to assure you that I am only interested in helping my DH.  My previous post was levity and not meant to assume that I could construct a VED that would/could put more pressure on any given point on a mans penis.

Forgive me my typed playfulness, I find if I can not laugh at this thang call Peyronies Disease occasionally I would only cry. My intentions are and always have been honorable. I have a passionate belief that there is no reason that men afflicted with Peyronies Disease should suffer because of the all mighty medical research dollar. I am doing every thing in my power to make Peyronies Disease, which I see as an US (meaning my DH and I) disease, more acceptable to society in general. Peyronies Disease affects every mans partner as well as himself. Should you, or anyone, have any suggestions as to how I can help please let me know.   
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: zigwyth on August 17, 2006, 01:35:11 PM
Old Man --sent you a PM to your ?. Angus, that's kind of what I was talking about. I believe Rico and I have the same issue(Hourglass). This is something I want to think about. Don't want to cause more trauma. I just don't know if my single cylinder will help with this indentation. I work with a very smart process engineer. Trying to figure out a different scenerio to tell him, but with same application. HHHmm any thoughts? I may have opened up a can of worms here. That's O.K. Better to laugh than to cry.
Zig the Twig
Title: Re: VED's, processes, safety
Post by: Angus on August 17, 2006, 06:56:15 PM

   Zig: Yup, safety is the deal. Anything extra tried with a VED has got to have caution flags all over it. The conservative way to approach its use would be to use a standard VED and get the protocol and method from Old Man. Trust me, it works. Some of us will keep brainstorming and coming up with ideas on VED's, though. But I'll never compromise safety for innovation.
   BLBC: Keep brainstorming and fire up the torch and see what you come up with! I'm anxious to see a prototype. We'll knock this US disease one way or another. There's no rule that says VED's must be made in a clean room lab by stern faced, white coated technicians then shipped in plain, brown wrappers. They might not ever be used as props or set pieces on the Today show  ;D, but they can have a fun element worked into the design.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 17, 2006, 09:53:45 PM
Angus:

Could not have said it better myself. Keep up the research on a new design for a VED. I have several ideas, but my old mind just keep wandering off the subject (due to age, I reckon).

Regards, Old Man
Title: Stretching out dents
Post by: Tim468 on August 17, 2006, 11:50:59 PM
OK - here is an idea. Say that you have a Y-connector of plastic, and you attach to one end a balloon, and to the other fork a thick rubber hot water bag. Then you blow into the mouthpiece. Guess which bag blows up. Right - the balloon blows up, and not the hotwater bottle, because the balloon has a higher "Compliance".

For lungs (which is what I know) Compliance is defined as the Volume change per unit of Pressure change across an elastic structure.

So - if we have a scarred bit of tissue, next to a more elastic bit of tissue, and we apply a pressure to them (now, unlike the lungs, we are applying a vacuum to the surface, and not inflating from within. We can do that to the penis though, with an erection I guess. But whether we are pushing the wall of the penis out with engorged blood, or pulling it out with a vacuum applied, there will still be a difference in compliance locally to the vacuum.

Bear with me here... if we are talking about deviation, and we use a smallish diameter tube, I think it works because the penis has to straighten to fit in the straight tube (makes sense). Thus, if there is a short side (the placque side), then it has a longitudinal force applied to it that tugs at the contracted scar tissue.

But a dent - not so sure. In my mind, when a penis is not snug in a tube (IOW, a "too-tight" tube), then the dent does not have a linear force applied in a longitudinal direction (ie from the base towards the tip). Ratherm, it has a force directed outwards.

Thus, if we have a dent, and the tissue there is scarred, and the adjacent tissue is not scarred, then the side of the penis wall looks schematically like this (time for ASCI art):

----------===========---------   (the thicker part is the scarred part)

And when we apply a force, the more compliant parts are the ones that bulge out. (not sure I can draw tat one!!)


  /------\                       /-------\
/            \===========/             \

In my mind, the forces (equal throughout) have an unequal effect on the scarred tissue. The little "mounds" in my crude art above, represent the normal tissue bulging towards the vacuum, whereas the scarred tissue (stiffer and less compliant) does not get stretched as much.

So I thought of a way to deal with this. One could fashion a fine mesh sleeve that was fairly stiff (IOW, will keep its tubular shape without deforming), and place it over the penis. It would be molded to the size of the swollen hard penis, and no larger. This could fit inside a standard larger sized VED. As the penis swells with the vaccum pressure applied to it, the walls of the penis would swell out to meet the wall of the mesh - except for the dent. Then, as higher vacuum pressures are applied, the increased forces to the "normal" tissue cannot lead to any further expansion, whereas the dent would continue to be able to swell. Thus, a differential force might actually be applied to the dent compared to the normal penis. One could stick to "safe" pressures of no more than -200 mm mercury (Hg).

Hmmm - I have a small dent. I could make one with some of the meshes used in labs for drying gels out (very fine) and test it.

Thoughts on this idea?

Tim

Title: Stretching thoughts...
Post by: Steve on August 18, 2006, 12:23:26 AM
Tim,

Interesting idea, and it may have some merit.  One thing that bothers me about a mesh (although a fine enough mesh may not have this problem) is that the skin can be forced 'through' the mesh with sufficient pressure.  Just press your hand against a screen door for a while and then look at it.  There will be protrusions where the skin bulges out between the wires.  To my thinking, if the screen isn't fine enough, the skin could protrude and, if the vacuum's too great, cause localized bleeding.  If the mesh you're considering is as fine as I think it is, this may not be a problem but I'd still be very cautious.

That said, I'd be most interested in any experimental results you may have.

Steve
Title: Re: Stretching out dents...
Post by: Angus on August 18, 2006, 12:59:13 AM

   Tim, I think I know of the lab mesh you mention. The closest thing readers might relate to in comparison would be the ultra-fine bronze mesh found in washable coffee filters that are designed to replace paper filters. This mesh is ultra fine with openings sized in microns. No way skin would suffer on this material. Keep going on this. I'm with you on the longitudinal forces and expansion. Excellent ascii art, by the way!  :)
Title: VED improvements/Dent improvement
Post by: Rico on August 18, 2006, 12:59:33 AM
Tim and members,

I believe the reason this won't work is that the 26 week protocol slowly remoulds the plaque/scar tissue.

By restraining the rest of the penis, you are putting stress on the weakest link, the outside of the scar tissue. The dent isn't the problem, it is the bilateral scar that it causing this dent or hour glass. It won't pop out and stay, at best it would put more pressure on a concentrated area, the outside of the scar tissue and most likely cause more damage.

From what I taken from reading the 26 week protocol along with three cylinders, the small cylinder used for the first weeks, conditions the penis shaft to stretching, the scar tissue starts to respond and starts having memory, in the later weeks as you alternate from the different size cylinders you start also to stretched the bilaterally, when you stretch it out first in the long way it becomes thiner, so when you stretch bilateral it moves easier also, like working a piece of taffy or dough or something you can imagine....a very slow method is the key, so you don't tear it and give it time to realign itself into more normal tissue. Strecth long, stretch wide, move back and forth like a massage, needing the plaque in a control way, once it gets use to it it will expand in both directions and the dent will fill in due to the elasticity of the scar tissue...as the plaque/scar becomes more thin, or strecth the less pressure it will put on the outside of the scar, and this tissue on the edge will also form a stronger bond, it will have memory, memory takes time and patience, rushing this will only cause more damage...IMHO....

I love the thinking on here, and I thought the same thing when I first got this peyronies, I think many of your post Tim have me get a handle on what I have, you are a huge asset to the form, I remember you talking about the bilateral scar and how the tissue is made up, the cross linking ect.....The three cylinder approach seems to hit all the bases for girth and length to me, the time makes sense also.....the vaccumtheary.org protocol I read really made sense to me as far as rehabilitating scar tissue...a slow and constant process with a change up, giving the certain areas of the plaque to rest and outside edges, but keeping it warm also and moving some, then back to it and then ending the protocol with the largest tube to get full size back....just my humble opinion...take care and God Bless...

Rico
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: BLBC on August 18, 2006, 01:37:53 AM
Tim, I think it's an excellent idea and makes sense to me. That in it's self should frighten all of you...

Rico, attempt to think of this as an after molding experience. As in: When you have completed the 26 week protocol (and who's to say that this won't take 22 or 30 weeks or more or less!) that one could not target a tougher area.

Provided there is no pain involved (I can only visualize having a penis) with said mesh and confining your penis within a predetermined area, I can see this working.
Title: Slow and Steady.....
Post by: Rico on August 18, 2006, 11:54:16 AM
The area you are trying to POP OUT has nothing to do with the area, it is the molding of the plaque that lets this fill out...the plaque is re molded from one side to the other, back and forth with this protocol, the reason IMHO that the FDA doesn't approve VED for peyronies is because when someone use the VED with only one cylinder it put to much pressure on him to soon, the weakest link being the plaque, over pull on it, especially on the tissue next to it, especially where it is thickest. Now using a small cylinder it will only let it expand to a certain level, plus less pressure in the vacuum, you start to condition it, then go to a large cylinder, and back and forth, some of this is for rest, IMHO it will go back to original in the early stages and start to get use to the stretch and REMOLD it self to the specific regimen. And as I said in my early post, now that you have stretch or warmed up the scar tissue to this program, you can start moving to the bilateral, and then back......also the natural shape of the cylinder to look like are unit makes sense also, it will forum in this way, straight and the longer one gets, regain loss length, this will also contribute to gain in girth do to the fact the plaque has become more supple and will start to expand bilateral and re condition....

Take care and God Bless...

Rico
Title: Vacuum for Indentation
Post by: zigwyth on August 18, 2006, 01:18:30 PM
I usually try to stay neutral when both sides have very good points. We are simply examining all angles of this possibility. I like Tim's/Angus' thoughts on this and can appreciate all valid concerns of adding to the trauma of said existing location(s). I wonder if Dr. Levine or any other Peyronies Disease specialized Uro's who promote VED's, might have a thought or theory on this idea? Anyone having an appt. soon that would be willing to convey these thoughts?
Zig The Twig with an Hourglass that has caused me to lose 2 Freakin inches!!! :-\
Title: VED innovations
Post by: Tim468 on August 18, 2006, 02:11:44 PM
Dear Rico,

I wasn't really able to follow your logic in your post. But I think what you are saying may be incorrect. No one knows what the "right" way to use a VED is, or what way works "best", much less what the mechanisms of healing are. BUT, I do have a theory about it.

I think that the smaller diameter tube allows the bent penis to be sort of forced straight, in a way that a larger diameter tube does not allow. A larger tube might simply apply a force to the surface of the penis such that it expands, but does not get straighter. Time for more art!

wall of (big) tube ____________________________________
                                                __
                                               /    \
                                             /      |
                       --------------/        /
    (very bent penis!)                      /
                                                /
                        -----------------
wall of tube____________________________________________


You can see how the tube would not really do any longitudinal pulling, whereas if the penis was in a narrower tube, it cannot bend:

___________________________________________
-------------------------------
                                            \    Penis is now "forced straight"
                                            /
-------------------------------
__________________________________________


This model of a narrow tube makes sense, but it still fails to address dents well. I think it is significant that we have heard more about men resolving bends than dents using a VED.

The other issue that I think might underlie failures with the VED, or even worsening (I have read literature linking the development of Peyronies Disease to using a VED), is that the forces might be distributed to normal tissue, and not to the scar. Thus, if I apply a stretch to a bit of tissue, it may be that the normal tissue (which is more compliant) will stretch more easily than the scar will. Moreover, it may add forces that cause microtrauma at the interface of the scar and the normal tunica.

So we can speculate all we want, but we are still just guessing, IMHO.

I agree that a mesh would have to be ultrafine, and not chicken wire!. I started imnagining a tube with a side vent for a second vacuum attached to the side, but I imagined that if one could do that somehow, it might be too great a vacuum on one small area, and even suck the penile tissue into it too hard. IOW, we cannot use the "Crevice tool" attachment from our vacuum cleaner and simply apply it to a small portion of our penis!!! Wrong!

I doubt that any uro knows how a VED works. The best one can come up with imo is that tissue that is contracting will contract less if regularly stretched. I am glad to see that more urologists are incorporating the use of the VED in post-op recovery, instead of saying to avoid erections for 6 weeks!! No wonder so may surgeries are accompanied by penile shortening. Here is a reference that uses the VED post op, and does not show that outcome (shows improvement):

TIM

LENGTHENING SHORTENED PENIS CAUSED BY PEYRONIE'S DISEASE USING CIRCULAR VENOUS GRAFTING AND DAILY STRETCHING WITH A VACUUM ERECTION DEVICE  LUE, TOM F.; EL-SAKKA, AHMED I.



ps, here is what Dr. Levine had to say on mechanisms 2.5 years ago - aninclomplete answer IMHO.

"Dr Levine answers:

The use of vacuum therapy has been considered a treatment option for some years without documented evidence of benefits. Several non-published reports from physicians and patients have suggested that they have seen improvements with chronic use of a vacuum device. The suggested mechanism is that stretching the penile tissue on a regular basis encourages the remodeling of the tunica albuginea and this straightens the penis. Years ago the Russians used the principle of stretching bones with a surgically placed device and that this in turn results in bone growth to lengthen shortened limbs. The problem is being able to provide prolonged pressure to the penis that such a change could occur. The recommended approach that I have used with patients (without any clear evidence of benefits as of yet) is to apply the vacuum once to twice per day in a progressive fashion until they could tolerate leaving the device in place for thirty minutes. Using a pulse of vacuum for short term (i.e. 5 minutes) may not be beneficial and may potentially cause injury. Leaving the device on for any longer than thirty minutes is dangerous as it can cause a low oxygen state, which may cause vascular and internal damage. Studies that I conducted in the past using a vacuum device revealed that the apparent straightening of the penis with the vacuum on is due to the expansion of tissues deep to the skin, but superficial to the tunica albuginea. As a result of having girth enhancement around the scar tissue within the tunica, a masking effect of the deformity occurs which results in what appears to be a more full and straight penis. My opinion is that this straightening is not real and yet a multi-centered study is being developed to test the benefits of chronic use of vacuum therapy to straighten the penis."



OMG... I just googled "Peyronies" and "Erecaid" to find this link, and found "Posts by Tim468" - with a link to THIS thread - before I found the link I wanted. Gee - is it time to cut back on my posting here!?
Title: Rico' Logic
Post by: Rico on August 18, 2006, 02:56:02 PM
Tim,

The principal behind the small tube is two fold as I see it. First of all it allows one to control the amount of torque he is putting on his unit, controlled st recthing and second to mold it to it original form.

I have to disregard any information from a study on VED from the past, it doesn't hold water in my book. First of all they were using a standard VED and just going to town with it.

The three cylinder is the key to the remolding, and the smaller tube limits your vacuum and stretching, if you try to mold anything to quickly it will tear, but by pulling in one direction, then rest, and going in the other direction, which the large tube will do, you will have the results of molding your penis back to a natural state.... in the vacuum therapy link on the 26 week protocol they address the hour glass and why this works for it also......

I would add that the wire mesh seems to go against the natural function of ones penis, and the three cylinder is more in line with bringing it back to a natural state with time and patience...

I would like to add that the VED was used for longer periods before, as in traction, I don't believe in this type of straighting, but the method of short bursts, and repeated ten times make much more sense, less stress to the tissue, it is actually conditioning the area for the later stages also.....once the large tube is added to the protocol, or I should say medium tube the penis will be able to expand more in girth also, slowly, then you go back to the small, keep it working but give it some rest and back and forth back and forth...till you can reach the largest tube and then the regular maintenance as needed.....

Rico
Title: Rico's Logic
Post by: Rico on August 18, 2006, 03:27:02 PM
I read this from Chris Spivey who works with peyronies, it is on the vacuum Therapy.org

4-11-06 Chris Spivey advises:

I think the key to using the VED is to use it every day, and to educate the patient that they are remodeling their scar tissue. The more they use it correctly-smaller tube to promote length and stretch the longitudinal scar tissue-and alternating with the larger tube to promote girth and diminish the hourglass deformity and narrowing from the circular fibers or the tunica......Most patients will do this if you promote a simple method....

It takes almost two months before one goes to the large cylinder....

This article says that Dr. Levine will be coming out with a new protocol that is different from Spivey....

Spivey claims to have treated successfully over 1000 patients with the three cylinder therapy.....

I have sent emails to there site with no reply??

I don't which company they get there VED from. I asked the rep of Soma Correct about them and he said he knew of the site and that was all....

ComeBackid put this site into one of his post.....that is how I found it, after reading it, it made sense to me from a scar remodeling stance....Maybe Levine is going to come out with mesh/hand blown glass/muti value unit....I doubt it though, he I think is going to try to make a buck off the traction devise and some how add it to the program.....

Rico

Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Barry on August 18, 2006, 05:37:48 PM
Greetings,
I would have to say IMHO that Rico has pretty much nailed it on the head. Way to go my friend. It is however as Tim said common logic that a VED may cause Peyronies Disease in those case where the VED is being used by a man who has ED and is using a constriction ring. it is also common knowledge that if a VED is used by a Peyronies Disease patient there is a chance that the device could exacerbate his condition.

Tim has made a few comments that I would like to address:

1."But I think what you are saying may be incorrect. No one knows what the "right" way to use a VED is, or what way works "best", much less what the mechanisms of healing are. BUT, I do have a theory about it."

I respect your theory but, that is exactly what it is "Theory" which does not confirm any correctness. There are many theories published and stated. Many doctor, etc. theorize that what Rico has stated is the proper use of the VED who can then report what is a more exacting procedure? I have been on every Peyronies Disease forum in existence for about 8 years and in doing so I have read what Peyronies Disease patients have reported on these forums. As a result of years of reading I have seen "practical application" of the VED and I will humbly put what I have read for many years against any hypothesis.

2."I think that the smaller diameter tube allows the bent penis to be sort of forced straight, in a way that a larger diameter tube does not allow. A larger tube might simply apply a force to the surface of the penis such that it expands, but does not get straighter."

Again Tim, years of reading and research have lead me to a conclusion that is contrary to yours. Far too many men over the years have reported increases in both length and girth using the VED with an understanding that it is not a quick fix.  Many men have stated that results were seen after many months of tedious waiting, but their tenacity proved not to be in vain. On a similar note my friend, a straight/straighter unit far exceeds the remaining presence of indents.

3. "ps, here is what Dr. Levine had to say on mechanisms 2.5 years ago - aninclomplete answer IMHO.

"Dr Levine answers:

The use of vacuum therapy has been considered a treatment option for some years without documented evidence of benefits. Several non-published reports from physicians and patients have suggested that they have seen improvements with chronic use of a vacuum device. The suggested mechanism is that stretching the penile tissue on a regular basis encourages the remodeling of the tunica albuginea and this straightens the penis. Years ago the Russians used the principle of stretching bones with a surgically placed device and that this in turn results in bone growth to lengthen shortened limbs. The problem is being able to provide prolonged pressure to the penis that such a change could occur. The recommended approach that I have used with patients (without any clear evidence of benefits as of yet) is to apply the vacuum once to twice per day in a progressive fashion until they could tolerate leaving the device in place for thirty minutes. Using a pulse of vacuum for short term (i.e. 5 minutes) may not be beneficial and may potentially cause injury. Leaving the device on for any longer than thirty minutes is dangerous as it can cause a low oxygen state, which may cause vascular and internal damage. Studies that I conducted in the past using a vacuum device revealed that the apparent straightening of the penis with the vacuum on is due to the expansion of tissues deep to the skin, but superficial to the tunica albuginea. As a result of having girth enhancement around the scar tissue within the tunica, a masking effect of the deformity occurs which results in what appears to be a more full and straight penis. My opinion is that this straightening is not real and yet a multi-centered study is being developed to test the benefits of chronic use of vacuum therapy to straighten the penis."

I would say that incomplete is an understatement. Not to mention that this is "HIS" opinion/theory if you will. Other urologists of his acclaim have published or stated on public forums their opinions pertaining to VED therapy, many of which  are so contrary to Levine's report that readers and diligent researchers, such as myself, could easily wonder if these doctors are on the same page. I therefore revert to my original opinion, practical application and some common sense among confused and conflicting theoretical accounts bears a clearer picture for the layman Peyronies Disease sufferer. May I also say  that I frequently converse with Rico and he has proven to me that he is a man possessing an above average drive for information and has solid roots in the common sense department.

4. "OMG... I just googled "Peyronies" and "Erecaid" to find this link, and found "Posts by Tim468" - with a link to THIS thread - before I found the link I wanted. Gee - is it time to cut back on my posting here!?"

I certainly hope that you are being the humble man that you claim to be ;) For many years I went and sometime still do go by the pseudonym "PDFTD", at one time a google search of PDFTD would yield nearly a thousand hits, still pulling hundreds
of hits only because I have backed off posting for many months due to severe health problems. It's a good thing Tim that a google search has pulled you up as a poster because I think you are a smart man and you should be heard in venues other then just one. But I most humbly advise you that your not alone. ;)  :D . Peace and warm regards.

Barry       
:D
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 18, 2006, 05:59:04 PM
Barry,

I do not think that what I think is being presented well enough. I am trying to think through what tissue forces - applied to a penis - might be expected to do. That a treatment works does not mean that the theory behind it is correct. IOW, for instance, it may be that verapamil reduces placgue size because of the collagenase like activity of verapamil. But it also mught be due to the actual needling of the placque. A theory says "here is a reason". It does not say "here is the truth". Nor do I.

What I have tried to put down here is not - to my knowledge - contrary to what most people think about the way that a vacuum applied to the penis works, nor is my explanation of why a narrower diamter tube exerts a longitudinal force to the penis at odds with the whole graduated cylinder technique theory that Old Man has shared with us. IOW, I think I am trying to say the same thing.

What I am ALSO trying to say or perhaps ask is WHY does it work. I am not quibbling with the thought that a stretch helps. I am asking how does it exert a force that heals sometimes, and does not heal sometimes. Of note, of the five hits I got in my medlit search for Peyronies Disease and vacuum, 4 out of 5 were reports of VEDs CAUSING Peyronies disease. I did not harp on those reports - but on the other hand, we cannot discount them either.

When we talk about "rearranging collagen fibers" or such like, we are talking through our hats, for we do not have any histologic evidence of what VED's do to the penis. We do not know if the normal tissue is stretched out, or if the abnormal tissue is stretched out - just that the penis is straighter after a long period of time of doing this. But the increase in girth could conceivably cause worsening of the angulation; and focusing on the angulation, could neglect the decreases in girth (or the "dents"). I think that the multiple sized cylinder technique was worked out empirically, and it works because it attends to both issues.

When I said that Rico may be incorrect, I was referring to his explanations of what the stretching is doing. I have read many explanations of what is happening when things are done (here and elsewhere), and now and then I do want to remind us how speculative it all is. What we say here starts to carry a ring of truth as if it is incontrovertable. It is not. But I fear, Barry, that you are mixing up my cautions about doing that, with a sense that I have a "better" way to explain it (I do not - I merely have one that makes more sense to me), or that I think that the VED is dangerous or doesn't work or needs to be fixed - I don't think that either.

But I do believe that if we simply do things without examining what the mechanisms are, then we are at risk of hurting ourselves, or ignoring ways to move ahead. We can get Verapamil injections and end up worse. We can use vitamin E for a year and not learn there is a better way. I think the VED has enormously exciting potential and can be improved. But to learn how to improve it - I think we need to look very critically at what our assumptions are. Most of what I think about the VED effects, BTW, is based on my reading of tissue expansion literature using implanted saline bags that are gradually inflated, and the data on the changes to the collagen matix of the skin (the tissue being expanded). Also, I have worked for years on a chest expansion protocol that uses implantable titanium ribs expanding devices to increase chest wall girth. So I have some information about how tissue responds to a constantly applied force.

I have to go - but I came away with the feeling that you feel I am taking a wildly different view on what a VED does than mainstream thought. I do not believe that is true, so I tend to think that I am not expressing myself well enough, and am unsure why you think that.

Tim
Title: Best efficacy of any treatment so far?
Post by: ComeBacKid on August 19, 2006, 02:29:49 AM
I'm still using the soma correct myself, just finished week 5 using the A cylinder.  Three people on this forum have told me that they've seen size restored and straightening from VED usage, I can't say this about any other mainstream treatment including Iontophoresis, Topical Verapamil, Vitamin E, ALC, and others.  This is enough for me to continue pursuing this treatment.  Its hard for me to tell if it is working or not yet because I'm taking the trazodone which keeps my flaccid penis more "pumped," if you will.  One thing is for sure, when I get done using the A cylinder my penis seems to be stretched lengthwise, and when done using the B cylinder, its stretched girth wise.  Tim, I believe you are right about those theories.  I haven't gotten to the C cylinder yet, but to me that seems like it will give a length and girth stretch.  I think while its easy for some of us to use these treatments and if they work just not analyze them, we still need to do this, as Tim is doing.  The VED may not work for everyone, but if we can figure out why it works for some and the method we may be able to figure out other ways to help people with peyronies.  In essence, we are doing what doctors SHOULD be doing, but they aren't so why not throw around some theories. 

My condition has certainly not gotten worse since I've been using the VED, thats for sure, I never have any pain either, so therefore I conclude for myself I will continue the treatment.  My plaque is older though and may be calcified, Dr. Carrol from Orlando, Florida had told me you can't use the VED without first softening the plaque with Iontophoresis(which did nothing for me after 25 treatments), however some of the men on this site that reported success to me, only used the VED with nothing else. 

I believe Old Man had reported before that Augusta Medical Systems did do a detailed study on VED usage on peyronies, I'm wondering how we can obtain access to these results, and why they wouldn't make them available?  I also believe Augusta is currently doing a study with their three cylinder VED right now in regards to further FDA required testing.  Many unanswered questions regarding VED's, we should continue to examine them, analyze and share our results with each other.

I know there are some others out there working with the VED cause I have talked to them via PM, give us an update on how things are going, what you think each tube is doing, etc. 

Title: Re: Results of studies done with the VED
Post by: Old Man on August 19, 2006, 10:21:11 AM
Note to all:

The only thing that I can say about the fact that results of studies being done with VEDs are not made public is because of the proprietary rights of the manufacturers or the research group. A company doing business always keeps their trade secrets, if you will very private and secret. Giving away their known methods would allow others to copy their procedures and modify them slightly and thereby get a patent or other rights to produce the item.

In time, when some of the studies that are now being done by research organizations are finished, the results will be published. The study now being conducted by a group in Birmingham, AL is supposed to be nearing completion and their results should be available soon. There has, as far as I know, no published information from that group as yet.

In the meantime, as I have said all along regarding VED therapy, it works for some and not for others. What causes the difference between guys of varying degrees of Peyronies Disease symptoms, no one seems to know. I have worked with guys who were only weeks into Peyronies Disease and others that have had it for years. Some  have had positive results while others have not. One thing that has been noticed in my VED usage along with others is that a maintenance schedule of exercises must be kept up to maintain retaining lost dimensions. IMHO, this is related to the fact that most guys with Peyronies Disease also have an ED problem which the regular stretching exercises assists in maintaining good blood flow necessary for a health penis.

Again, the above observations are strictly those of the writer and individual results will not necessarily be obtainable by others. I have no clue as to why this happens.

Old Man
Title: Soma Results?
Post by: Steve on August 19, 2006, 10:37:20 AM
ComeBackid,

I like your call for updates on VED users, so here's mine.

First a little history.  After discovering an alarming bend a year and a half ago (70 degrees up, right behind the Glans), and researching it, I went to my GP who sent me to a Uro.  They both confirmed what I'd suspected, that I had Peyronies Disease.  The first thing the Uro did was to put me on a Topical Verapamil (TV).  He didn't recommend the Peyronies Disease-Labs stuff...he didn't even mention it.  I had a local compounding pharmacy mix up some, and tried it for about 15 weeks.  Same results that most people have gotten with the Peyronies Disease-Labs stuff, but a LOT less money!  Next, we went to the Verapamil Injections (VI) starting at 10mg every 2 weeks.  Pretty uncomfortable!  I'd asked about the shots actually causing more plaque, and my Uro told me of a study done that showed that the shots did not cause additional plaque.  I never saw the study, and couldn't find any reference to it on the web.  After 6 shots at 10mg didn't have any positive results, he upped the dosage to 20mg and continued for another 6 shots (12 shots total).  The only results from all the shots was an occasional badly bruised penis, and more lumps (plaque?) around the injection sites!  So much for the 'study'.

With 2 shots to go out of the 12, I convinced him to write me a prescription for a Soma Correct (which the insurance never paid for either >:() so I started the VED while still on VI.  The last 2 shots were real bruisers, so while the bruise was present, I held off on the VED, so I really didn't get started on the protocol until after all the shots.

Long story short, I'm now at week 12 of the protocol (17 weeks after 'starting'), and so far, there are no results to report :-\.  I'm not discouraged yet, and I'm going to wait until all 26 weeks of the protcol before deciding if it helps me or not.

Immediately after pumping, I notice a bit more 'color' and fullness in my penis, but after a half hour or so, it's back to 'normal'.  Here's what I've seen with each of the cylinders:

A (smallest diameter) - I've got to use both black sealing inserts to prevent pinching  :o.  I think the new model Soma Correct is supposed to address this issue?  When I started, there was a definate gap between me and the cylinder in the area of the hourglass.  Now, I seem to be filling the cylinder more, so this may  :-\ be some positive results.  I'm working strictly on memory here, so I may be wrong.  The size forces the erection to be straight, so this should definitely give some lengthwise stretching.  My recommendation to someone starting is to use LOTS of lube in the A cylinder.  There's lots of sliding going on in this size, and you need to prevent sticking!

B (middle diameter) - Sometimes, I get pinching here too, but I can get by with just the large insert.  There is a definite gap in this cylinder between me and the cylinder wall in the area of my bend/hourglass.  A little bend may be present in this cylinder, but there is still a lot of stretching lengthwise.

C (largest diameter) - When pumping with this cylinder, I fill the diameter around the base of my penis for about 2 inches or so (about the location of the VI injections).  From there out, there is very little contact with the wall of the cylinder except for the top of my Glans where the bend forces it in contact with the cylinder wall (there's probably contact at the bottom of the curve too, but it's hard to see the bottom -- I haven't gotten out a mirror to see what's going on down there).  I can see that almost all the stretching in this cylinder is widthwise.  I'm hoping that someday, I'll be able to fill most of the cylinder all the way up.  This for me would be proof that the hourglass is gone.

Oh well, enough rambling...how's everyone else doing?  I've got 14 more weeks of protocol to go before I pass judgement on the process.

Steve
Title: Degree of Bend/Location
Post by: Rico on August 19, 2006, 11:26:46 AM
Steve and members,

Thank you all for sharing, this is a positive step to the left and adjusting for all are needs.

Steve with a serve bend 70 degrees right on the end is a difficult bend vs one that is in the middle IMO. My thoughts also, yours being 70 degrees is above average in severity of the condition also.

With this said, the protocol I believe will work for you, but might take longer. I say this for two reasons, the 70 degree being the most apparent, but the location also. I believe in leverage. If you were to straighten a pipe and it was bent in the middle, it would be much easier to straighten than one that was bent on the end, the actually weight or leverage or the rest of the penis will help in accelerating the stretching.

I have talked off line with people that it took up to a year, at first this seem like a eternity to me, now I look at it as a God Send, one year, I can do this, two years, I can do that also, especially if I'm seeing results after months...some see results in two or three months.

I think we all know that totally over all health is paramount in any rehabilitation of a tissue of any kind, your body just responds better. Also if you were able to soften the plaque, taking the time to warm up the area, just like exercising, I know that I never stretch like the old days cold, I alway move around for awhile and then stretch, get the blood flowing, maybe putting warm water on yourself with a shower massage ect...or a warm bath ect...it is a workout, conditioning, stretch program.

I would like to personally thank Tim and Angus and others on this forum for getting this positive exchange going, I know when I have been involved in other endeavors of my life, people in the groups of my interest would do some in fighting, I always took the stance that these are people I like because we have the same interest, I never meet a Martial Artist I didn't like, or someone who was into cooking ect....we had much in common, but maybe we thought different about things, spiritual people also, I don't care if you love Jesus or Buddha, it is that your heart and spirit are on the path of giving and helping your fellow man....I love all my brothers with peyeronies, I can relate to there pain and although we might have different approaches, in reality we all are in the same boat to some degree, like five men in a fox hole from all different races and creeds in the service, you become a band of brothers and watch each others back...peyronies shows no prejudice, young and old, black or white, God fearing or not....the list go on, but in the end we will all be bound forever by this and are recovery will be in numbers and unity...Thank you all for being here for me....I love ya!!  God Bless...

Rico
Title: Re: VED Updates
Post by: Hawk on August 19, 2006, 11:32:01 AM
Gentlemen,

Please do the inconvenient thing and keep a log so this is not fuzzy memory a year from now.  We need patient analysis of the VED in very specific terms.  These updates are good. 

I would suggest noting your degree of bend and marking the length on the outer wall of the VED at a full comfortable pump on each cylinder and compare gains or decrease in curve.  Even use photos for your own evaluation.  If you use the large cylinder one time in the beginning at a full comfortable pump, mark length, note curve, and take a photo of curve in the VED it seems easy to end the 26 weeks with this same evaluation.

The only question to remain would be the impact on a natural erection before and after the 26 weeks.  This data will help determine if we have a viable treatment, what the actual degree of improvement is, or if this is money and time spent that does not produce results.  You are the pioneers for others. 

Good luck, and thanks to all of you for the contributions you make for us and those yet to be diagnosed.

Title: Record Keeping
Post by: Steve on August 19, 2006, 12:49:34 PM
Hawk,

Good idea in marking the cylinders...I'll get on that tomorrow.  As to record keeping, I've got a digital photo of a 'natural' erection, each week since I started my treatments.  On one of them, I drew a straight line with a pen while soft, and then got an erection and used that line to determine my 70 degree bend.  It never hurts to have more measurments, so I'll be marking each cylinder for length next time I use each one.

Thanks for the ideas.

Steve
Title: Location of shots?
Post by: Rico on August 19, 2006, 01:02:12 PM
Steve,

I was reading your post, you said  that your bend is up by the glands, but you said the tube fills up by the base, where you had your shots, why where the shots given there if the plaque is up by the glands?

Rico
Title: Shots vs bend
Post by: Steve on August 19, 2006, 06:37:11 PM
Yeah, I asked the Uro the same question...he said that he injected in the same place from the outside, but targeted different areas of the plaque on the inside.  In retrospect, I'm not sure he was even injecting in the right place either! ???
Title: Soma and Traction Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on August 20, 2006, 01:24:22 AM
For me it is still to early to give an analysis, and as I said before, since I"m on the trazodone now, which I started after I finished the Iontophoresis treatments, its hard to tell cause my penis has a "full," and "pumped," effect.  I will give an update on my Soma Correct usage at the halfway(13 week mark), and when I"m done at 26 weeks.  Just starting week 6 for now. 

I know we have a few guys out there using the traction devices, according to those sites you should have seen like an inch gain by now, are they blowing smoke up our ass again Want It, SteveW... others?

Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 20, 2006, 12:08:38 PM
Just a quick note about injections. When one injects a medicine, you may be targeting different areas. Most commonly, this is seen in injecting numbing medicine. Thus, I may insert a needle at point A, and then, while it is still in the skin, advance the needle such that I can now squirt some into target B, then withdraw a bit, angle it, advance it again, and inject into target C. Most people prefer this to removing the needle completely, and reinserting it through the skin, because the surface of the skin is where the pain fibers are.

Thus, it is reasonable for a doc tor to grab a penis near the end, say (and I was not there- and sometimes patients do not like to *watch*), and to the insert the neede from a point closer to the base, and to advance it under the skin to the target. I would assume this was what happened, not that he was insane. :)

Tim
Title: Shot locations
Post by: Steve on August 20, 2006, 12:21:50 PM
Thanks Tim for the Dr's point of view ;).  It's a lot clearer than what my Uro said.
Title: Final Progress Report; Augusta Protocol
Post by: Mick on August 25, 2006, 10:44:49 AM
Hi All:

     I just finished the final (182nd) procedure of the Augusta Protocol which I began back in February of this year, so this is my final monthly report.  There has been no observable progress during the past month, and as those of you who have been following my progress might recall, there was no observable progress duing months 3, 4, and 5, but there was significant progress duing the first two months.  Overall, to summarize, I have regained 1/2" in both faccid and erect length and 5/8" in girth.  My dorsal curve of 15 degrees has disappeared completely, but my scaring (3/8" band from base to glans) shows no observable change, except for a possible slight narrowing at the glans.

     I visited my uro on Tuesday and showed him my stats.  He had not been a believer in the VED, but because I was able to convince him that I knew what I was talking about (thanks to Old Man's educating me) and because he was naturally curious, a trait I find admirable in a physician, he wrote me the required prescription for the Soma Correct.  He was amazed at what I reported, and when I told him about Levine's study, he said he looked forward eagerly to seeing it.

     Meanwhile, I had contacted Old Man and he has given me some advice on follow-up use of the Soma, which I intend to follow.  If there is any change in my condition, up or down, I will report it on this thread.

     In summary, I didn't get everything I had hoped for, but more than I expected, and on balance I am very pleased with what has happened.  I thank God every day for finding this forum, for Hawk and especially for Old Man. 

Respy, Mick

     
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 25, 2006, 12:47:33 PM
Mick,

Thanks for your update. It is really encouraging to read of successes - and in an odd way, for me, it is more encouraging to read of "real life" success, where the change is for the better, not "perfect". Hearing your story puts it all in a different light that reading statistics does not do.

May I ask what degree of negative pressure you used to create a vacuum? My pump has a gauge, and I can go easily to somewhere between 100 to 200 mm mercury negative pressure. Any higher is uncomfortable and (IMO) unhealthy. I hold a vacuum for about 10 - 20 seconds, as recommended here on this board. The thing is, I have no idea if I shouldn't be doing that. I see a difference in "inflation" at higher pressures (especially after a few warmups), so it makes me believe that it is better to go to the higher (but still comfortable) level. And a little tugging sensation seems OK - after all, when I stretch my legs I go till I feel resistence and a sense of "Can't go much further".

Do you or Old Man have any comments on what pressure level to use, and what to not exceed?

Tim
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Mick on August 25, 2006, 01:17:55 PM
Hi Tim:

I have no idea what pressure I used, since I had no gauge.  At first, I just pumped till it hurt, then backed off.  After a short while, I had a sense of how far to go.  Like you, I would sometimes go a little higher to where it was slightly uncomfortable but not really painful.  I would guess that, by the end of the six months, I might have gone a little too far once every two or three sessions.  I would then release the  pressure slightly, or if I were almost finished with the cycle, completely.  I usually held the pressure for 20 seconds, but during the past month or so I sometimes went longer, expecially on the 10th cycle.  I think that after a while one simply gets a feel for it, like learning to ride a bike.

New subject: Just for the fun of it I called Augusta a few minutes ago and asked for Technical Support.  I got the same woman I got the only other time I called, which was about a week or so into the protocol (late Feb. or early March).  I told her that I had just completed the  26 week protocol and asked her where I should go from there.  She asked me if I was using the Soma for ED.  I said "no, for Peyronies."  She replied that they only gave advice now for ED.  All she could do for me was to give me a website to look at.  I asked her why, and she replied that the FDA had "ordered" them to stop advising re Peyronies.  I asked if they had the power to do that, and she answered that they did.  I thanked her, hung up.  It will be interesting to see what they have to say about the new Soma, when, and if, it comes out.

Respy, Mick 
Title: Re: VED therapy Web Site
Post by: Old Man on August 25, 2006, 02:07:16 PM
Mick:

First, thank you for your support of me and the VED usage. I am only trying to pass on to others what has been given me. So, I am truly glad and thankful that you experienced at least some relief of Peyronies Disease. When you start on the follow on therapy, let me know how you are doing.

BTW, note for all. The web address for the vacuum therapy study is: www.vacuumtherapy.org and not .com as stated in Mick's post below.

Mick: Try the new address and you will find that it will bring you to the Birmingham study.

Good luck to all. Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED pressure gage
Post by: Old Man on August 25, 2006, 02:20:01 PM
Dr. Tim:

I guess the best way to answer your question to me and Mick about the amount of pressure to use is this: When first starting out on vacuum therapy, practice for several days with only enough vacuum to allow a slight erection to begin. If you feel any pain or discomfort at any time while pumping pressure, it is an indication that you are using too much force. So, if you follow the 26 week protocol that was published with the Soma Correct when it first came to the market, you will be on the right track. (The reason that Augusta probably told Mick they could not support advice in using the Soma Correct for Peyronies Disease is due to the fact that it had to be pulled from the market by FDA as I understand it.)

Again, use only enough pressure that feels "right" or comfortable. Somewhere in previous posts it has been indicated that using a certain med along with too much VED pressure had caused more trauma. So bottom line, IMHO, it is not entirely necessary to have a vacuum gage in any VED therapy to progress with the exercise sesseions. Just a final word of caution, again, do not use too much vacuum force to cause further trauma.

I just read the latest Ask the Doctor's monthly Q&A on the APDA web site and it had several good ones on the use of meds as well as the VED therapy. Might be good reading for those interested.

The protocol on the www.vacuumtherapy.org site is basically the same as the original Soma 26 week regimen, but it does not state the cycles in quite enough detail. If one studies it carefully, it will become clearer so that it can be followed without incident.

Regards to all, Old Man
Title: VED-cylinder C
Post by: ComeBacKid on August 26, 2006, 01:55:23 AM
I just read the Ask the Doctor section regarding VED's and what not, interesting they are finally taking the devices seriously, Old Man will be vindicated!

My question is tomorrow I start week 7 with the C cylinder, and it seems like my penis in the A, and B cylinder will fully straighten out and touch the sides of the cylinder, but in the C it won't.  It remains bent and doesn't fill out the tube, on this sheet I have it says if your penis bends in the tube, go back to the next smallest tube, however most people don't seem like they have done this. Pondering if I should do another week on the B cylinder or not, but I don't think I'd ever be able to fill up the C cylinder, hell who do they think I am Ron Jeremy!  :D
Title: Re: Augusta protocol
Post by: Old Man on August 26, 2006, 10:42:32 AM
Note to all using the Soma Correct VED:

It is best to stay on the recommended scheduled routine as stated in the protocol. Going back a week or two may or may not help. The regimen is designed to give the penis a routine of stretching and/or expanding on a controlled basis. So, stick to the regimen as stated is my recommendation.

As far as Old Man being ahead of his time, that has been the story of my life so nothing new here on tha point either. The VED was developed many years ago by a man who was the pioneer on the subject. Since he had a very severe case of Peyronies Disease, the old axium of necessity is the mother of all inventions applies in his case. He just kept on trying things until he found one that worked and he was rewarded for his efforts.

The mistake that has been made so many times in the past by users of vacuum therapy is that they expected too much too soon with their recovery. Again, though, I state categorically that there are some cases that resist all efforts with a VED to work. So, buyer beware, is the best advice I can give to anyone wanting to use the VED therapy. Go into it with a positive attitude and if it fails, at least you tried. It has worked for a great number, they just don't come back in public and state their success many times.

Regards to all, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: howcanthisbe on August 26, 2006, 02:54:38 PM
wow Mick its great to see someone having success with the VED. May I ask you though if you had any dents did it get rid of those? Also if you had erection problems did it help that too? Old Man im glad your on this forum, your story always gives me hope as when things get to bad to manage for me im going to use the VED method for sure. I have a quick question for you Old Man also, you mentioned you had a strecthing exercise that  helps? I was thinking about that yesterday as yesterday was a bad day for me because it seemed my dent was getting a little bigger and I had a slight ache that would come for a few secs every few hours. I thought my conditioning was worsening but today the dent looks the same as always and the pain is gone. Anyways I was looking as I stretched the dent I could see it go away or appear to go away, so couldnt I just stretch and hold this stretch for like 5 mins a day a few times a day? Just a thought, I was just wondering what you thought on this. Thanks everyone.
Title: Reply to Howcanthisbe
Post by: Mick on August 26, 2006, 07:19:47 PM
Hi Howcanthisbe:

No dents and no erection problems, although I believe I am having more and better nocturrnal erections now.

Respy, Mick
Title: Considering taking the VED plunge
Post by: DannyOcean on August 27, 2006, 10:54:13 PM
Hey all.  I've been looking into the VED thing more and am considering taking the plunge.  I had a few questions first before I make this (rather sizable) purchase:

1.  It seems like the Soma Correct is probably the way to go.  I don't have ED, just Peyronies Disease and I've had it for about three months.  It's fairly minor (10-15 degree curve, no pain) and has not seemed to worsen since I first noticed it.  From what I've read here (and I've read every post! :)) the Soma Correct is probably the way to go right?

2.  Has anyone had any luck in getting insurance to cover all or a portion of this?  I'm in California and on Blue Cross.  If anyone has found a way to get reimbursed or covered for this I'd love to hear your stories.

3.  I do notice this website (http://www.healthproductsforyou.us/products_detail.asp?PID=2783) selling the Soma Correct for $513.20.  It'd be great to save the extra $85 but at the same time I think I might want to go right to the source.  Thoughts?

4.  The stories I've heard on here about VED are encouraging but almost too encouraging.  It seems like a very high percentage of people that have used the VED have had signficant improvement.  If this is the case then I'm wondering why most/all people aren't using it and why doctors aren't aware of its benefits.  It isn't cheap but when you compare it to the lifetime costs of medications to treat Peyronies Disease it seems like a drop in the bucket.

OK, I think that's all for now.  If I think of any questions later I'll be sure to post them. 

Thanks!
Title: Re: DannyOcean
Post by: ComeBacKid on August 28, 2006, 12:32:57 AM
1.  DannyOcean, in the beginning 7 years ago I had the same symptons as you man, jsut a slight curve of about 15 degrees, no ED at all, could have sex all day until the cows came home.  Now 7 years later I get no erections at all all day unless i stare at a porn picture and daydream for a long time.  My penis is hardened, shrunken and bent more like 30 degrees.  Man do I wish I would of attacked this thing full force way back then!  I was 15 at the time and to embarrased to see a doctor and couldn't just go on my own, let alone drive myself there on my own.  I don't think the VED can hurt you I'd start as soon as possible.

2.  DannyOcean, Mike Davis from Augusta Medical Systems helped me get it covered, and I bought it from Dr. Carrol not straight from Augusta Medical Systems, however he helped me fight like hell for coverage, it is a battle man but go for it and dont BACK DOWN TO YOUR INSURANCE!  I'd get a letter of medical necessity handy.  So far I got mine insurance to cover $146.75, I'm fighting now for the full $400 promised to me.  If they deny you appeal and it write to the company, site the three cylinder system and how its the only one out there if they try to get you to buy an in network VED.  Also get your doctor to prescribe it for ED, most insurance companies won't cover it for peyronies.

3.  There are some legitimate people selling it at a reduced rate, cause they get it at a reduced rate, I still haven't quite figured this structure of sales out yet, the VED doesn't cost as much as Augusta is selling it for but you get liftime warrante and can call a clinical specialist for help anytime. I don't know if you get this when you don't buy it from Augusta.  I know Old Man, Steve, both have the Soma I'd PM one of them to ask how much they paid for theirs, also Larry H has a soma I believe. 

4.  Danny when I went to the doctor and brought up the VED and traction they almost laughed me right out of Hershey hospital, rejected the idea and discounting me of a depressed and desperate young kid.  It is farily new, my only thought on this is I've talked to at least 4 people who saw results from VEDs, thats more than any other treatment for peyronies.  Also why would one of the leading urologists on peyronies in the world be doing a study with the VED and traction right now as we speak if they didn't believe in it somewhat?  There are many people on this forum working with the VED, not all post about it, we have at least 11 I've counted.

I've asked hawk in the near future to do a poll on the VED, he has said we will do one, so we can get some results on it.  We have not made one up yet but if someone wants to take the lead and make a VED poll that would be great.  We want to gather DATA and get facts out there on these treatments, no better than the DATA coming right from our own! I'm sure hawk would appreciate the help hes got a lot to do on here, one could just email him a poll they constructed. Oh by the way DannyOcean if you've ever used topical verapamil make sure you take our poll for members, its located on the PDS website part, we did have a link up in the NEWS section but it got taken down, I think most people have not seen all the polls we have done and have, so check them out!

ComeBackid
Title: Edge Park Surgical for VED
Post by: Blink on August 28, 2006, 11:17:17 AM
For anyone who wants info that I received for the soma correct, I contacted Mike at Augusta and he gave me this info. Edge Park Surgical. 1-800-321-0591  I got my doc to write a script for the soma correct. When he wrote it he stated that it was for ED, not Peyronies. It seems that my insurance carrier would not cover it for peyronies, but would for ED. I called Edge Park and spoke to someone about placing an order. They took down my info and started the ball rolling. They contacted my insurance provider, and then my doc. They got info faxed to them and completed my order. I got it fully covered. All I can say is: Call Edge Park Surgical and see if they can help. They did a great job. They even called me several times to tell me what progress was being made on my order. Very nice people. I hope this will help. I haven't really gotten into the VED as of yet. I will keep you all posted on any progress. I hope to begin in earnest by the weeks end. Keep the Faith...Blink


"Subject line on this post edited for easy reference"
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: DannyOcean on August 28, 2006, 04:00:52 PM
Thanks Blink.  So you order from Edge Park rather than from Soma directly?  I'm curious as to why this would work any better.  If anything it would seem that insurance would be more likely to cover it when ordered directly from the manufacturer.  Thoughts?

Thanks as well ComeBackid.  It's a shame that your urologist was so closed-minded.  I think that if we can show success with the VED then perhaps more people/doctors will be open to this as a treatment method.  It seems like a much more "natural" way to help heal Peyronies Disease and I'm always a big believer that the more natural you can remain when trying to fight disease/illness, the better off you will be in the long run. 

I haven't really heard of anyone having major issues with the VED when used properly and given the number of people that have claimed that it helped I think I'm ready to take the plunge.  Just need to do a little more research...
Title: Re: DannyOcean
Post by: ComeBacKid on August 28, 2006, 04:08:16 PM
I think in regards to the doctor and his resident just about laughing me out of the physicians clinic that I knew more than they did on peyronies.  I started spewing out statistics like a doctor whos been studying this issue for months. When my doctor brought up verapamil injections and I cited our study showing them not to be that effective and questioned him on the injections further he dodged the question.  I even told him an ultra sound would be good to view the plaque and determine size and if its calcified or not, and he rejected this idea saying there was no need for it.

I think in general with no medical studies out, most doctors will reject the VED's as being effective in helping with peyronies.  Maybe once we get some we will see even more interest in them with more doctors. When I was in the waiting area the resident got kind of testy with me and didn't like me telling HIM what treatments are available for ME. 

Title: Edge Park
Post by: zigwyth on August 31, 2006, 12:52:45 PM
FYI, guys. I had my Uro write a prescription. Only after writing an appeal to my Ins. saying I needed it for PEYRONIES, would they cover it 80%.Edge Park sent me an Osbon Classic manual VED. I now wish he would have written a prescription for a Soma 3 cyl. one. They will not exchange it now. So get a doc who knows what to write for your particular ins. coverage.
Zig the Twig
Title: Re: Edge Park
Post by: Blink on August 31, 2006, 09:26:42 PM
Yeah Zig, all insurance companies are differant. Mine would not cover for peyronies. I did make sure that my doc prescribed a Soma Correct. Everyone....Zig is right, make sure you know what the doc is prescribing BEFORE it is submitted. Keep the Faith...Blink


P.S., I have an Osbon Manual VED. If anyone wants it, and does not care if it was used, PM me. I only have one, so first come first served. ( it is clean!)
Title: Osbon VED
Post by: Blink on September 01, 2006, 05:22:14 AM
Someone has claimed the Osbon that I was giving away. Sorry everybody, but I only had one. Keep watching, maybe someone else willpart with one in the future.   Keep the Faith...Blink
Title: Needless Injection
Post by: hopeful on September 01, 2006, 06:33:08 AM
Rico.. This is Hopeful- I did research on the injections- the worst thing we can be doing- as it can cause more scar tissue an plaque.

There is an alternative- it is a needless injection system- have spoke to the company... Larry Peterson at Injex  www.injex.com   

These docs.. jus dont get it- there is new technology out there that they are not using.. cjeck it out- they just completed 3,000 patient trial study on ED patients..


Hopeful



Quote from: Rico on August 19, 2006, 06:53:42 PM
Steve this makes no sense to me...I never had the shots, but I understand they shot them into the plaque, can you feel the plaque next to your glands? I know when you apply the topical, you put on the whole penis, but one might as well be rubbing it with Olive oil, you would get the same results. But if he thinks he is going to shoot you in the base and travel though your whole area all I have is one thing to say
"Coo Coo for Coca Puffs", I'm sure he wanted to do something and didn't want to shoot you in the upper part because of the pain, more nerves in this area....don't give up on the VED, it might take a year or more, but look how far you are now, I wish I had three or four months under my belt right now.....

I want to thank Hawk and Liam for talking about the ALC, I started it about a week ago and I can tell it has help my mood, I have read up on it, I think from a over all help with stress it is very good and has some good research behind it....

Rico
Title: Needless Injection
Post by: hopeful on September 01, 2006, 06:36:28 AM
Hey ComeBackid

It is me Hopeful- You know how I feel about the Docs.. time to get up and leave- when they don't know sh_t about what they are talking about...

I did research on the injections- the worst thing we can be doing- as it can cause more scar tissue an plaque.

There is an alternative- it is a needless injection system- have spoke to the company... Larry Peterson at Injex  www.injex.com   

These docs.. jus dont get it- there is new technology out there that they are not using.. cjeck it out- they just completed 3,000 patient trial study on ED patients..


Hopeful


Quote from: pudder135 on August 28, 2006, 04:08:16 PM
I think in regards to the doctor and his resident just about laughing me out of the physicians clinic that I knew more than they did on peyronies.  I started spewing out statistics like a doctor whos been studying this issue for months. When my doctor brought up verapamil injections and I cited our study showing them not to be that effective and questioned him on the injections further he dodged the question.  I even told him an ultra sound would be good to view the plaque and determine size and if its calcified or not, and he rejected this idea saying there was no need for it.

I think in general with no medical studies out, most doctors will reject the VED's as being effective in helping with peyronies.  Maybe once we get some we will see even more interest in them with more doctors. When I was in the waiting area the resident got kind of testy with me and didn't like me telling HIM what treatments are available for ME. 


Title: Question- on Final Progress Report; Augusta Protocol
Post by: hopeful on September 01, 2006, 06:44:02 AM
Hi Mick..

This is Hopeful

I have a 35% bend at the top of my penis - Captain Hook- almost- I would be thrilled if I only had a 15%- where was your bend- are you saying that you have no bend at all??- that is fantastic- what else did oyu do besides the VED??/ _ pleae let me know.

Hopeful;

Quote from: Mick on August 25, 2006, 10:44:49 AM
Hi All:

     I just finished the final (182nd) procedure of the Augusta Protocol which I began back in February of this year, so this is my final monthly report.  There has been no observable progress during the past month, and as those of you who have been following my progress might recall, there was no observable progress duing months 3, 4, and 5, but there was significant progress duing the first two months.  Overall, to summarize, I have regained 1/2" in both faccid and erect length and 5/8" in girth.  My dorsal curve of 15 degrees has disappeared completely, but my scaring (3/8" band from base to glans) shows no observable change, except for a possible slight narrowing at the glans.
Title: Needless and more....
Post by: Rico on September 01, 2006, 03:32:08 PM
Hopeful,

I don't know if the needless injections would work? The needle needs to go into the scar tissue, and as we know this is scar tissue which can be somewhat hard......this is why they need to use the size of the gauge of the needle they do...for it doesn't break off.....My urologist said he would use the topical verapamil because then I wouldn't have to come into the office....I feel he must not of had too much belief in the process because he said that the topical "Might" make the plaque softer.....so I would think if he thought that the injections were superior he would of told me this and wouldn't of worried about me having to come in for a office visit.....he also said that potaba would be his second choice or a combination with the topical, but also said it gave most of his clients flu like symptoms........so I declined it and took a supply of one month of the verapamil and didn't refill my order....I don't know if the delivery system is as much of a issue as the agent itself....too bring back the tunica elastic seems to me to be a very difficult task....the combination of remolding the plaque with VED use to regain the shape and size of the penis along with some sort of scar softener seems to be where the testing is going....of course the other approach is to use drugs like pentox, potaba, colchrine ect...I know on one site peyronies.org the doctor is fond of colchrine, he prescribes it for three months in the early stages.....this also plays on ones stomach, diarrhea ect....

It is not the doctors fault that they can't cure peyronies.....scar tissue has been around for years, the money that the NFL has, believe me, if they could cure scar tissue they would, professional sports address this issue everyday.....they have been using strectghing techniques and breaking up of the scar tissue..but this is in muscle also, not the replacement of the tunica, even after they break up the scar tissue the new method is to teach the athlete how to perform in a different maner with that muscle group, for instanace if you have a hamstring pull with scar tissue, you learn how to run more with your body lean forward to take stress of the hamstring and easier to stop quickly....I think we have to think of this also, from rodeo sex ect.....not over pumping ect....but it will always be there....the weakest link in the chain.....and everyones will be different to some extent.....

The drugs or method to attack peyronies I would think is looked at different by a good urologist or someone of Levine or Lue experience......if I had just a plaque with pain and curve(no hourglass or lost of size), then I would probally take the medicine approach.....but because my concerns are more with lost size and hourglass I'm leaning towards a mechanical approach(this is me not a doctors advise).....I have lost two inches and my goal is to get one back along with some girth, maybe a 1/2 inch at the hourglass spot.....I would be very happy with this result.....now someone with a serve bend at the glans needs to assest his peyronies and find some cases like this and find what has worked for them....

Peyronies that seems to attack the whole tunica is truly a diesease and if this was my case I would have to take a more over all health concern....maybe get a DEA study which are available now, for several hundred dollars....blood test, ect.....your immune system is out of whack....or something.....

We are all brothers with peyronies, but we all have a different twist:), or bend:) to this crap!!!

I know on one post I put on here when I first found out I had peyronies I wrote it could be worse, and for me this is true, but now to think of it, it was a insensitive post and I'm sorry for the person who was reading it and had a 90 degree bend at the glands with serve pain....I pray for these brothers of peyronies, they are the true victims of this disease.....it isn't fair.....I ask God why in church.....I pray that he spared me such a extreme version....even if I reach my goals which I feel I will with gaining some size back and stability, I will feel sad that all my brothers in arms won't be able to and it will be a bitter sweet victory for me....although it can give some hope, it won't cure everyone.....and this isn't fair..

God Bless you all and have a safe weekend!!

Rico



Title: Scars and sadness
Post by: Tim468 on September 01, 2006, 04:57:10 PM
Trying to post this again - system burped...

Dear Rico,

Thanks for your compassionate note to Hopeful. It is true, there are all kinds of variations in how we are affected with Peyronies Disease, and some cases are "worse" than others. I have pain at times, and a probable 35-45 upward curve in the distal end, and a dent at the base. But I can have pretty good sex usually.

But every man with Peyronies Disease struggles with grief and a sense of lost selfhood. I hesitate to say "manhood" because it goes deeper even than that.

Every man with Peyronies Disease has to go through the sadness that loss brings into our lives. We don't "handle it" - it handles us, and it reminds us of who is in charge, and it ain't us.

It really sucks, but I have found that trying to make it better, and learning to accept that I might be different forever (after all, I have been different for 30 years) have both helped me as a person.

Tim
Title: Respnse to Hopeful re my final progress report
Post by: Mick on September 01, 2006, 05:12:18 PM
Hi Hopeful:

I had a 15 degree dorsal bend beginning an inch or so below the glans.  It was reduced to 5 degrees the first month and eliminated the second by using the VED.  I didn't do anything else, not even vit. E, so that I can attribute all progress to the Soma  and the Augusta protocol.

Respy, Mick
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Mister Dillon on September 02, 2006, 01:15:42 PM
Here it is—my first post and I feel like a school boy again.  I have been lurking on this forum for a few weeks now and I feel like I know most of you as old friends and don't want to embarrass myself --but here goes
I have to start out letting all of you know of thankful I am to have found this site, I am 64 years old and I have had peyronies for about 12 months now.  I started noticing pain and discomfort on full erection (it felt to me like I was overfilled but my wife told me that is less then normal volume) but did not notice any bend at that time,  Within 2  months a backward bend of over 50 degrees was a sure sign of Peyronies Disease.  I did not go to my Doc at the time since I researched the web and knew what I was dealing with.  At the time most of the information I found held out little hope for treatment except for eventual surgery after 12 to 24 months.  So I just lived with it for almost a year with little hope of improvement and both my wife and I accepted our fate.  My wife have been great and understanding but the lack of sex has hurts us both. And we were both, if not depressed at least we were sad for our loss.
Then my life changed—I found this site and found out that there are others out there and they are willing to help and there are things that I can try that may produce some relief.  As I said before I have been reading just about everything posted and especially on this thread and I have come to respect the information given here.

Now for my questions:
I have decided to try the VED therapy used by "old man" and have a couple of questions that I am still unclear about.
1.  I have a combination of ED and Peyronies Disease that makes it hard to choose between the Osbon Esteem as recommended for ED or the Soma Correct as recommended for Peyronies Disease.  I had some ED before the peyronies but it was helped by Levitra.   
2. I have read here somewhere that you should not engage in intercourse while using the VED therapy.  Does that mean that my wife and I must abstain for the 26 weeks of the program even if good progress is made and sex becomes possible again?

I am sure I will think of many more questions but this post is long enough.

Again thanks everyone for being here
Dillon
(PS  mister Dillon is not my real name-just a character form gunsmoke which some of you older guys will remember)
   


Title: Welcome Mister Dillon
Post by: Liam on September 02, 2006, 03:07:51 PM
I see no reason to abstain from sex.  I think the idea is not to bend the penis as sometimes happens in,shall we say, "acrobatic" sex. ;)

I have a dog who hurt his leg as a pup and limped.  His name is Chester. :)  He's a greyhound and can haul buggy now.
Title: Gunsmoke
Post by: Rico on September 03, 2006, 01:18:55 AM
Mr. Dillion,

If you mean is it ok to use the VED for ED with the ring....I would think you would want to hold off of this until you conditon your self with the VED, this is how it got a bad rap for peyronies....think of it as exercise for your unit...if you were going to start running, and thought you would start with a six mile run, you would do more damage to yourself than good, you would want to start and walk a mile, then two, then jog a couple and work yourself up to the six mile run....
When the Old Man talks about VED, I put my ears on....he is a Saint and if you send him a personal message I'm sure he will help you out.....walk before you run with the VED....welcome to the forum, you sound like a good man....God Bless You!

Rico
Title: Mister Dillon
Post by: ComeBacKid on September 03, 2006, 06:05:47 AM
The soma will work fine for the ED, you only use the constriction ring when you are using the VED for ED.  This would require you to pump an erection and then transfer the restriction ring from the VED to your penis carefully, I've never done this as I can get an erection on my own and am using the soma correct only for my peyronies treatment. When your using the VED just for the 26 week protocol you don't need a restriction ring as you pump your penis until it fills the different tubes depending on your weekly schedule and then let it return to almost the flaccid state, before you pump another erection (cycle 2 etc.). 

You wouldn't want to have sex while your in the middle of doing a daily session but you can have sex at other times during the day using the restriction ring for your ED. 

Here is a site regarding the 26 week protocol:

http://www.vacuumtherapy.org/index.html

ComeBackid
Title: Re:Mister Dillon
Post by: Blink on September 03, 2006, 07:48:23 AM
Hey there Mister Dillon, welcome to the site. Be sure to let your wife know about the "Ladies Room" part of the site. All of the girls are great support for us guys, and it's a place that she can get info. With the use of a Soma Correct, you might even find out that it could help the ED by the time you get done with the program. I've been told that by exercising "little willy" enzymes and other body chemicals related to a man's arousal are produced. These enzymes and chemicals are not as pronounced as we get older. By following the "old man" method, these natural body thingies will increase in production. There is no guarantee, but I'm sure that if you have good results on the peyronies side, you will have restored confidence in your ability to perform sexually. With that new spark of enthusiasm, the sky's the limit. Also remember that just because "little willy" is acting up now, doesn't mean that you couldn't get more creative in your love making techniques. Penial penetration is only a small part of fulfilling your honey's sexual desires. If you need to get some real good ideas on how to please your woman, there are some great books out there. Don't think of peyronies as a setback, think of it as a vehicle in a whole new adventure in your sex life. You may be surprised at how much more closer and intimate your relationship with your wife can be.  Keep the Faith...Blink
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Mister Dillon on September 04, 2006, 10:29:34 AM
Thanks for all the encouragement and information in responce to my first post.  The information is very helpful.  I have also heard from "old man" and I think I will buy the upgrade to the soma correct when it comes out latter this month.  I will be sure to post my progress and results as I go through the 26 week program.

Dillon
Title: Vacuumtherapy
Post by: Rico on September 07, 2006, 12:33:57 PM
Dear forum members,

I have sent emails to the www.vacuumtherapy.org site and haven't gotten any response, I sent it to both emails they have on there site for further information...this is on the Spivey method....They claim to have treated over 1,000 clients with the technique...

Are they connected in anyway with Soma Correct?

I haven't ever seen a post on the forums from anyone saying they were treated by this clinic ect.....

They still haven't shipped my VED from Soma, had problems with getting the fax prescriptson from my doctor.....blamed it on the doctor's office...so they had them mail it to them yesterday, so I wait...I guess a week or two won't matter.....

If anyone out there has had contact with this Spivey or knows how to get in contact with them, I would be interested in there information....1,000 people been cure? to what extent ect...this study seems like it should be all over the Urologist news!

Plus any other updates from anyone using the VED would be welcomed! Thank you and God Bless...

Rico
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on September 07, 2006, 04:31:26 PM
OK, I went ahead and ordered a second cylinder. I remain uncertain of the essential reasoning behind the use of three cylinders at 1.5, 1.75 and 2 inches in diameter. So, since I have a 2 inch cylinder (not in length! Diameter!), I will now have a "small" one as well. I will do a modified protocol, and will spend some time doing the narrow one that will allow for a more focused longitudinal force to be exerted on me, and will try to move back to the bigger one in something like a rhythm that approximates the protocol.

The protocol also has a built in "improvement factor" - it reads almost as iff the assumption is that one will get bigger, and thus need the bigger ones eventually anyway. I am interested in how this will feel and whether or not it will provide me with evidence (as measured by either improvement, or by feelings) of doing something different than I am now doing. The sensations I now get with the larger diameter tube are of both longitudinal and lateral (girth) stretching. The upward curve is naturally brought into hard contact with the side of the cylinder it curves toward. I hope that the lack of "free room" will make the "straightening effect" more obvious. It is possible, though, that the main effect will be that the vacuum is merely greatest on the head (which should fit tightly at 1.5 inches), and thus it forms an occluding leading edge that the vacuum is greatest on (not sure if ANY of that made sense!).

My main concern is that my curve is right below the head, and it is somewhat active, and that pulling harder at that point than any other point might be proinflammatory, instead of simply a good stretch.

We shall see. So far, I think I am ahead, and if I am convinced that the middle sized one is also important, then I will still be ahead financially.

Tube 1 (2" X 8.5" cylinder) - $72
Hand pump with gauge      - $30
Tube 2 (1.5" X 9")            - $72

Total                                $174

Still less than a $400-500 "medical device" costs - even if I add the third cylinder. Please note that one should use very good quality product. I have referenced the source I use (who sell many sizes of tubes, and also adaptors for pumps that might not be "VED-ready") before. But you can find it if you google "JT Stockroom".

Tim
Title: two cylinders
Post by: Rico on September 07, 2006, 04:50:41 PM
Tim,

I think you are on the right track, I didn't save the site but it was on a UK peyronies on stumbled on surfing one night....it said that in Europe and Canada VED is the first choice today, and then it said to use a small and medium size ved, short duration of pump, then stop and repeat for 15 minutes.....

Once again as you know we all have a different condition, below the glands or near the base or dead center....up curve, side curve, downward curve.... but once again, even with the ved the information is one size fits all.....

This is why if Spivey has 1,000 clients with treatment, this information would be invaluable to us....Glad we have the Old Man....

Being constent in the being with the small cylinder I would think would condition your plaque to be more aggressive with it in the future treatments....and going from small to medium and back to small to medium to large back to small makes sense, you giving it a time to rest, but not completely and pulling on it from all angles.....

I would think due to leverage, having plaque on the tip would be harder to mold and would take more time and maybe if it is in or on the septum could be a different situation also.....

Spivey says ten times a day for 5-10 seconds.....that UK site said the same for time or they just said negative pressure and then release it right away but do it for 15 minutes..... much longer than the two minutes with the spivey.....maybe Mick or Angus and the Old Man and Soxfan can jump in on this time limit also......

I would go to the small tube in the beginning for the three weeks....I know SteveW has it seems the same condition as you do, and like I said, with it there so close to the end, I think more patience will be needed.....I'm sure the Old Man has worked with people with this....reading the results on the VED survey, I was looking for location of plaque, maybe this is a determining factor in recovery?

Now get off your wallet and order the other tube:)...

Rico
Title: Three cylinders
Post by: Rico on September 07, 2006, 05:43:19 PM
Tim,

I read your post again, it is a big help in understanding the ved.....reading your post on you using the large only cylinder and not getting the results your looking for, the bend in the tube....forced vacuum with no restrictson on bending....I think once again this is how the VED got it bad rap....the small tube like you said, or think might not allow the bend, how could it, so it can only go straight, but now again, and I don't know the length of cylinders use by the three cylinder protocol, but I know you don't suppose to get a full erection, release pump ect...but keep it up for three weeks before going to the medium, not the large one.....I know from st recthing that moving around from light to heavy works and muscles or tissues in this case have memory....

Being as professional as you are, following a documented program and documenting it would be of great value....I tend to go off the beaten path myself....my hot dog is burnt again(2nd time) from dmso:).....

If they ever ship my VED I'm going to try to stick with the protocol and work with the Old Man and Angus.....I going to take measurements and document it all for the forum.....

I do notice when I use dmso my erections are weak? maybe I shocked the tissue? then I go off it for several days and put on arnica oil to get the skin back from redness and I get fairly good erections and maybe better hanging.... I will leave it at I wouldn't use your large cylinder awhile, and get the medium and try it everyday for eight weeks, what do you have to lose at this point, it might be just what you aren't doing....

Take care and God Bless....

Rico
Title: Two Cylinders
Post by: ComeBacKid on September 07, 2006, 05:55:40 PM
Rico and Others,

I noticed the same thing as Tim, in the biggest C cylinder my penis bends and it is simply to big, instead I just use the medium tube which gives me a good girth stretch, and the smallest A gives me a good length stretch.  It says on my sheet here from chris spivey that if you notice the curve occuring in a tube go to the next smallest one, well in the A tube its always straight as it is in the B tube as well.  On Saturday I will start week 9, I will post a progress update at week 13, that will be the halfway point for me.  Good luck pumping everyone!

ComeBackid
Title: Protocol
Post by: Rico on September 07, 2006, 06:07:04 PM
ComeBackid,

Are you following the 26 week protocol to the letter? and are you holding the pressure for only 5-10 seconds? If you are out there Mick, what do you think, you are hope:)..... Old Man any thoughts? Angus? Soxfan? We are looking to the veterans to lead the charge.....

Rico
Title: Tim, Rico, others... cycles, tubes and lubes
Post by: Angus on September 07, 2006, 06:29:48 PM
Quote from: Tim468 on September 07, 2006, 04:31:26 PM
I will do a modified protocol, and will spend some time doing the narrow one that will allow for a more focused longitudinal force to be exerted on me, and will try to move back to the bigger one in something like a rhythm that approximates the protocol.

The protocol also has a built in "improvement factor" - it reads almost as iff the assumption is that one will get bigger, and thus need the bigger ones eventually anyway. I am interested in how this will feel and whether or not it will provide me with evidence (as measured by either improvement, or by feelings) of doing something different than I am now doing. We shall see. So far, I think I am ahead, and if I am convinced that the middle sized one is also important, then I will still be ahead financially.


     When using the 1 1/2 inch tube you will feel a pronounced longitudinal pull (compared to use of the larger tubes) once you've reached the size limits of the sides of the tube. There is also such a small area of vacuum that air is being drawn out of when compared to the larger tubes that negative pressure will build rapidly so a light touch on the pump is required. I also have a small cylindrical tube brush that I would use to apply lubricant to the entire inside surface of the small tube. The brush will get lube down the entire length of the inside of the tube which helps immensely. From experience, it is a good thing to not have any dry spots inside the small tube. This allows expansion and lengthening without skin getting caught on a dry spot in the tube. If this happens you'll know right away. Applying lube to the inside of the tube and the penis is a safe precaution and ensures that things will expand and contract without inhibition.
     I also had a larger tube that I would alternate with the small tube. I didn't keep records of how many cycles or time pressure was held, but I did do many more cycles than the protocol specifies, and holding pressure for much more than ten seconds. I was doing this before the Soma or graduated tube protocol was out. In addition to the straightening, some lost size was regained, verified by my wife (her opinion is more objective on the subject than mine  ;D).
    At this point I wouldn't be overly concerned with where the bend starts and just forge ahead with some caution and keep an easy touch on the vacuum pump. With time and more participation, I'm sure we can add more chapters to the VED book and get a better handle on the physiology of remodeling and what is taking place during VED therapy.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices 26 week protocol
Post by: Old Man on September 07, 2006, 06:43:07 PM
Hey guys:

FYI, the Spivey Method and the Soma protocol are one and the same. The schedule on the Spivey does not go into enough detail so that it is clearly understood what to do. The Soma protocol also leaves a lot to be desired in that area, but it is a little better than the Spivey.

Now, another FWIW dept. item. The reasoning behind the three cylinder VED is to allow the penis to gradually get used to the negative pressures. Using the small cylinder for the first phase of therapy is designed so that the penis is confined into a narrow space so that the penis is held straight and firm. As the tissue "learns" the added pressure, then the larger cylinders are designed to allow for more and more expansion both in length and in girth.

Pumping up and holding for the 10 second time is designed so that varying degrees of pressure is applied to the penis. The overall time for the therapy exercises can be varied based on how well ones penis tolerates the pressure and the amount thereof. Usually 10 minutes for the first week or so only one time a day would be my recommendation. Then add time as the penis shows signs of "staying" in the elongated or expanded girth, etc. Experience with daily use will determine what is best for each individual.

I used the Osbon Esteem manual VED to do my Peyronies Disease exercises, but had to develop my own regimen since the unit is designed primarily for ED. It can be adapted for Peyronies Disease, but one must take time and have patience to "stay with the routine" long enough to see results. An inner smaller sizing insert must be used with Esteem VED to size the opening down to allow for a tighter fit around the shaft as the cylinder/pump assy. must be able to move up and down the shaft easily. The Esteem VED has worked successfully for quite a number of guys on and off this forum as well as the old BTC forum.

Hope the above is not too rambling, but just some thoughts that occurred to me while reading all the posts herein.

Old Man

Title: Reply to Rico's post entitled "Protocol"
Post by: Mick on September 07, 2006, 08:33:20 PM
Rico:

     During the first few weeks (I can't remember exactly how long), I held the pressure for ten seconds.  After that, I increased the time to about 25 seconds, and on the last of the 10 cycles, if I weren't in hurry, I'd hold it until the pressure began to be lost, up to about three minutes.  My sessions lasted from 10 to 20 minutes, usually nearer the lower figure.  Hope this answers your questions.

Respy, Mick
Title: Veterans!
Post by: Rico on September 07, 2006, 10:10:49 PM
Old Man, Mick, Angus,

Thank you, that insight was worth more than a room of Urologist could give me....I love you guys!!

Rico
Title: Remolding Scar Tissue.....
Post by: Rico on September 11, 2006, 11:25:33 AM
Dear Forum Members and Guest,

I have been studying Scar tissue and remolding of it......what is interesting is that regular tissue had blood and oil which gives it elastic abilities.....scar tissue only has blood and a lesser amount that regular tissue.....

So I would assume that maybe the reason is two fold for the moment of blood into this area, to keep the scar tissue as soft as possible.....and the reasoning behind the castor oil in the thacker formula.....also maybe the needling from the application of the verapamil will also give the scar tissue more give, this perforation seems to work in other applications....

I have been putting dmso and the castor oil(thacker mix) on my scar tissue, this is something I have been working with for about three weeks(I have burnt the skin a couple of times and had to take a few days off), and with the use of arnia and calendula) oil before and after use....My thought is to condition the scar tissue before the use with the VED, maybe the poor man's version of the Verapamil injections or buying the pysion machine.......

I'm thinking out loud here on the VED and the scar tissue itself.....how many people warm up there unit first...even though the amount of blood is limited in the scar I'm thinking some heat might be good before....I was told by one sports doctor to go from hot to cold, use a water massager, one minute hot, one minute cold or a total of seven times each(14 minutes total time) to bring circulation into the area before st recthing....

Take care and God Bless....

Rico
Title: Soma Shipped...
Post by: Rico on September 11, 2006, 12:55:54 PM
Augusta(soma correct) just called me and they shipped my Soma Correct fts today, said I would have it in a couple of days....it is the new model.....My cost with shipping was $444.14  my insurance wouldn't cover it, they say they gave me a discount, I had to send in the blue cross blue shield information....I did get a discount, a policy of theirs  if you have insurance? At this point I don't care, I don't have much money into this yet and I feel that this is the best chance I have right now along with trying to soften the scar tissue for better application of the VED......I have had this for four months, I read that scar tissue is at 90% of it's end result in 6 weeks, but takes up to 12 months to finish it's development....I feel after 6 weeks maybe one should be fine to start using the VED......

Thanks Angus for the advise on the brush for lube, I will go get one, does anyone have a suggestion on the best lube to buy? Also kudos out to the Old Man and Soxfan and Mick for sending me personal PM's and also ComeBackid......and many more on the forum.....

I'm going to take measurements and keep a journal.....

God Bless,

Rico
Title: Re: Soma Shipped...
Post by: Angus on September 11, 2006, 05:33:25 PM
Quote from: Rico on September 11, 2006, 12:55:54 PM

Thanks Angus for the advise on the brush for lube, I will go get one, does anyone have a suggestion on the best lube to buy?....

I'm going to take measurements and keep a journal.....

God Bless,

Rico

     The KY liquid is good, and Wal Mart has a house brand that is the same thing but much cheaper. The best I found though is Astroglide because it lasts longer and I think slicker. Buy it at Wal Mart, Sams or wherever you get discount health and beauty aids. It's more expensive, but better than KY in my opinion. I tried the silicone based lubes but stuck with Astroglide because it's water based and cleanup is faster.
     The journal is a good idea. Some day we'll compile all our data into a comprehensive document hopefully. We do need more data from guys.

   
Title: Re: Lube
Post by: Mick on September 11, 2006, 08:47:05 PM
Hi Rico

I used the water-based Equate Jelly (personal lubricant) by Wal-Mart, at the suggestion of Old Man.  I used only 5 tubes for the entire 6 month protocol (and am still using it) at $1.74 each for a total of $8.70.

Respy, Mick
Title: Just about ready to take the plunge
Post by: DannyOcean on September 14, 2006, 11:24:31 AM
I'm almost ready to take the plunge but have a couple of remaining questions:

1.  So much of the feedback on the VED here has been overwhelmingly positive.  In some ways it almost seems too good to be true especially considering how ineffective most other treatments seem.  I'd actually love to hear from someone who has been using the VED for 6 months or more and hasn't noticed any improvement.  Anyone hear in that boat?

2.  One concern of mine is becoming dependent on the VED for erections.  I don't have any real ED issues at this point, just Peyronies Disease, and so I wouldn't be using the VED for producing erections for sex.  However, I'm concerned that somehow my body will become dependent on the VED and I want to avoid having to "pump myself up" before sex in the future.  I think that concern may be off-base and actually a misunderstanding of how the VED works but if someone wouldn't mind clearning that up for me I would appreciate it.

Thanks!
Title: DannyOcean; VED second question
Post by: Angus on September 14, 2006, 12:53:23 PM

   
    Response to your second question regarding possible dependence on the VED: I, like yourself, didn't have issues with ED, just Peyronies Disease. For me, use of the VED regularly for well over a year didn't leave me dependent on it for erections. They happen for me when they are supposed to with no problem. Personally I can't think of anything about the VED therapy that would cause a dependence on it for erections, assuming that there were no developing ED issues going on during the therapy. I haven't read anything documenting this happening to anyone, however. In the unlikely event that ED did develop during VED therapy, I think it would be related to some other developing condition, not the VED therapy.
   
Title: Re: VED Second Question
Post by: Mick on September 14, 2006, 05:32:13 PM
Danny Ocean:

I've been using the VED for over 6 mos., do not have ED, and agree with everything Angus said in his post re this subject.

Respy, Mick
Title: Re: VED Second Question
Post by: DannyOcean on September 14, 2006, 05:46:37 PM
Yeah, I think you guys are both probably right. 

Mick, you may have posted this already so my apologies if you have but have you noticed a difference in the last six months since starting on the VED?

Quote from: Mick on September 14, 2006, 05:32:13 PM
Danny Ocean:

I've been using the VED fpr over 6 mos., do not have ED, and agree with everything Angus said in his post re this subject.

Respy, Mick
Title: Re: Danny Ocean's Second Question re VED
Post by: Mick on September 14, 2006, 11:26:20 PM
Hi again, Danny:

Yes, and mostly positive.  I was well satisfied with the outcome.  See my post # 526 (corrected from 528) of Aug. 25. on this thread.

Respy, Mick
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices Protocol and uses
Post by: Old Man on September 15, 2006, 11:37:13 AM
Note to all:

Just re-read Mick's post #528 of August 25. The correct address that Augusta should have given him is:

www.vacuumtherapy.org and not .com as he listed it. I looked up the one that was listed and it is definitely not a site for Peyronies Disease therapy.

Above just for information only and not promoting Augusta in any manner.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: DannyOcean on September 15, 2006, 12:26:34 PM
Thanks guys.  I re-read post #528 but it didn't say anything about any changes you've noticed.  Did I read the wrong post?
Title: Post 528
Post by: Rico on September 15, 2006, 01:51:45 PM
DO,

Click on Mick's name, then go to his post, and read them, they are great and he did a great job of keeping track of his progress, he also put them in his profile.....he only used the VED also....I just got my VED today in the mail, I haven't opened it yet....I will do my first rehabilitation session this weekend....once again, Mick's is a good read...

Rico
Title: Re: Link to the Vacuum Therapy site in Birmingham, AL
Post by: Old Man on September 15, 2006, 04:21:04 PM
Danny Ocean:

What I was referring to about the address of the site he mentioned in post #528 is that he had the wrong web site address. He stated that contact was made with the one ending in .com and it should have ended in .org.

Anyway the correct web address is: www.vacuumtherapy.org in case you desire to explore the 26 week three cylinder VED therapy course.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: Danny Ocean's question
Post by: Mick on September 15, 2006, 08:59:54 PM
Hi Danny:

Mea culpa; I gave you the wrong number; it should have been 526.  Sorry 'bout that.

Respy, Mick
Title: Small Cylinder...
Post by: Rico on September 16, 2006, 05:56:07 PM
Veteran VED users and members,

I just open my Somaerect stf yesterday, I took time and read the manual and put the parts on the table ect...really for non ED users, only two pages of booklet are needed, and the 16 parts(tension rings and adapter) aren't used either, I put these all back into the book they came in, they give you a black little carry case, so I only need the pump and three cylinders and two seals and lube.....I read the two pages several times on how to operate and use the different cylinders, I was happily surprise on the quality of the unit...it is well made and everything fits great....other than one thing....I can't get my unit in the small cylinder...I have always had a big helmet on my unit....I don't care how much lube on put on, and the b cylinder looks like my unit, except the head again is a tight fit....I haven't pumped yet....has anyone else had this problem? The third cylinder is huge, I laughed when it said, if you need a bigger one you can order one....I could hear Mr. ED saying, Hey Wilbur I need to order the bigger one!

Rico
Title: More LUBE!!
Post by: Rico on September 16, 2006, 06:30:34 PM
Dear members and guest,

I just figure out my first session with my Somaerect sft with the small cylinder...MORE LUBE:)! I coated the unit and inside the cylinder and it slipped in, then I pumped twice and waited, it grew a little, no pinching and two more pumps and it grew more, this thing is amazing, nothing like I thought it would be like, I kept thinking that I would feel this pull and blood being sucked out from around my unit, I was surprise on how fast it inflates, this is the first time I have used one...this cost me 444.14 including shipping, they gave me a insurance discount(even though my insurance wouldn't cover anything), I only did it three or times for about 10 seconds and only a few pumps, I'm just getting use to it, I didn't do any st recthing, I'm going to use it for a few days to get use to it and let me unit get use to it also, I just trimmed up a little with a scissors, once I filled the small tube with lots of lube, I did slip in, it is a tight fit, once you pull it off, you are hanging!
I thank the Old Man and Angus and Soxfan, ComeBackid and Mick for giving me the confidence to try this, I have to say though, it wasn't anything Like I expected, I really have a boost of confidence right now, I have my dmso mix down also, I use now only 1tsp dmso, 1/4 tsp apple cider, 1/8 tsp castor oil, put on with eye dropper, this works perfect for me...no burn.......

Rico
Title: 24 Hours from Lift-off!
Post by: DannyOcean on September 17, 2006, 01:43:48 PM
OK guys, after much deliberation I've decided to go ahead with the VED.  I'm planning to call tomorrow to order it.  It seems strange to say this but I can't remember being this excited about a purchase before... :)

Anyway, a couple of last-minute questions:

1.  I'm planning to order the Soma Correct.  I see that you got it for $444 Rico and wanted to know a little more about that.  Did you order it directly from Augusta Medical Systems?  Also, you mentioned insurance discount and I recall you said that you have Blue Cross.  I also have Blue Cross and so I'm wondering what to ask for on the phone when I call.

2.  How long does this usually take to arrive?  Also, do they ship it in plain packaging.  I'm trying to decide whether to have it sent to my home or my office.  If it comes stamped with "Vacuum Erection Device" in big letters then sending it to the office probably wouldn't be wise... :D

Thanks again for all of the help guys.  It's meant a ton to me in my purchasing decision!!!
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: howcanthisbe on September 17, 2006, 06:30:57 PM
Rico. So do you have erection problems without the VED? Does the VED give you a full erection to all parts of penis? You think this is going to work for you? I have a growing dent, I wonder if VED can get rid of that dent, I also have a slight hinge that I want to get rid of.
Title: VED Q&A...
Post by: Rico on September 17, 2006, 08:23:27 PM
howcanthisbe,

I don't have ED, I can get a erection without the devise, I don't even think of sex when I break it out, it is a exercise program for my condition with peyronies, now today is only the second day I have use it, and at this point I'm still just taking it slow and getting use to the pressure ect.....I'm not the expert in this area, I can tell you what I have read on the forum and internet....The Old Man, Angus, Mick and Soxfan have much experience and I thank God for the help and guidance they have given me....I have heard that the hinge or hour glass can be improved with the VED...one had to look at it as exercise, conditioning, remolding, stretching the plaque...read all the post on VED...there is a 26 week protocol you can look at....the Old Man is a great person and is always there if you have a question...

Danny O,

I order the new Somaerect stf....my cost was 444. with shipping, pretty much a plain brown wrap, small label  Augusta medical label, nothing about ved...they shipped mine on Monday, I got it on Thursday...I have blue cross, in my plan they had nothing to do with ED...and wouldn't pay for it off label....the sales guy at Augusta said they would give me a discount if I would send in my insurance card....faxed a copy of it....I was impress with the quality of the unit...you have to have your doctor write a prescriptson for it....

Rico
Title: Re: Howcanthisbe
Post by: ComeBacKid on September 17, 2006, 08:38:43 PM
The VED will fill all parts of your penis up... and some, you must be careful while pumping, you should never feel any pain while pumping at all.  In the beginning it will feel weird and you will want to practice a little at first.  It becomes automatic after a period of time and really is nothing at all.  I must say to you that I've talked to 5 people now that have seen results from the VED, with all kinds of problems from loss of size, dents, etc...  I think it is worth a try, I'm currently working with the soma correct model and am currently on week 9. 

Title: VED exercises....
Post by: Rico on September 18, 2006, 06:21:26 PM
Dear forum members and guest...

I'm posting this on the forum for all can benefit, I know the Old Man and others would PM me....but please put your response here so all can benefit....

Tonight will be my third night with the VED exercise....the A cylinder is rather small, I do use plenty of lube, I'm pumping several times and then wait, letting unit get use to it....then I release pressure and pump again, my unit before peyronies was seven plus and thick, now it is 5 plus and still the top third of penis is normal, really the whole unit except for one inch above base where bilateral plaque is located on septum doesn't  look different, slight hour glass on flat and top and of course lost of size, although with a very strong erection I gain some size back it seems...

My question to the veterans out there using the VED....now many pumps does it take to get full pressure, I'm doing two wait then two wait and two more for a total of six pumps and then I release.....the head of my unit has always been huge, especially when engorged with blood, it seems somewhat stuck in cylinder...I'm nervous to force it....so I'm just taking it slow....I feel in my heart that less in better with the VED...I  will be glad in about a month to start to use the b cylinder....give the guy some breathing room.....talk about a stuffed sausage:)...

Rico
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices/using the small cylinder
Post by: Old Man on September 18, 2006, 07:23:31 PM
Note to all:

Rico's post below has stated a common problem while using the small A cylinder with the three cylinder VED. The intent of the small cylinder during the first phases of the original Soma Correct protocol is to make sure that the penis is held in a very restricted and straight position. This is done in order for the penis to begin to stretch itself in somewhat confined space to help straighten the plaque area(s). Extreme caution should be exercised during this phase of the therapy to preclude further damage.

As Rico states, one must take it very slow and easy during the first few days of VED therapy. Remember that the penis has not been expanded to that range for some time and it must be allowed to expand slowly in order not to do damage to any tissue or blood vessels. Also remember that Peyronies Disease probably came on slowly and with no warning and it will most likely go away the same way.

Another reminder too, use plenty lubricant especially when using the small A cylinder. Someone has already mentioned this, but I will repeat it just to remind those using the VED. He suggested you use a small brush that will fit easily up into the cylinder to apply the lubricant as far as the penis will go into the cylinder. In addition, lubricate the whole shaft of the penis before inserting it into the opening. BE careful not to get lubricant on the scrotum to preclude it being drawn up into the cylinder while pumping.

I found that it was better to get the cylinder started over the head portion and then slowly pump pressure to help draw the penis into the cylinder. Also, I rotated the cylinder back and forth slightly each and every pump to help the penis expand and stretch to its fullest while in the confined area of the small cylinder.

There are many ways to use the VED, so each person must adapt any method that works best for him. Rico is doing what I would do in his case, work slowly, make necessary adjustments in my pumping cycles and above all do not cause any pain or discomfort whatsoever when pumping. If this occurs, it only means that too much vacuum has been applied. Back off at this point and start over with the cycles. If any redness, edema or bruising occurs, stop the therapy, let it heal before starting over. Then use less pressure while doing the cycles. You must develop the schedule that works best for you without causing pain or discomfort.

The above is furnished only as a guideline for those using the VED as observed during my therapy. Will field any and all questions that anyone develops.

Regards to all, Old Man
Title: Re: Rico, VED's, small cylinder, starting out.
Post by: Angus on September 19, 2006, 12:30:44 AM
   All that Old Man has said, plus a few comments:

   The number of pumps to achieve erection will vary with individuals and even with the same person from day to day. The body mechanisms that need to work to achieve a VED erection will change from day to day sometimes. Some days it will take more time to achieve erections... remember that more pumping and more vacuum will not make the erection happen sooner. You cannot rush the process of the blood coming in to achieve an erection. Keep low vacuum... you're body will react when it is ready and not before, so be patient especially when starting out with the VED.
   The small tube will feel tight and constricted as it is supposed to. The erection will appear unlike you have never seen it before if your small tube is clear. It may take some time to get used to this image when you see it this way the first few times.
   Don't worry about size at this point. The VED cycles will take care of that down the line. Just remember this is not a short term therapy. Give your body a chance to react to the forces being applied to it. A person starting out in weight training would never start with an overloaded barbell, and the same thinking applies to VED therapy; start slowly with some caution so you can learn what your body feels like during this therapy.
Title: Hail to the Veterans!
Post by: Rico on September 19, 2006, 12:53:00 AM
Veterans,

Thanks Angus, this is making more sense to me now...it is harder to grasp when you don't have the VED.(now don't read into that one:))...it made sense to me before....doing it everyday seems to give you more confidence...I have only use it three times and now to have your guys feed back is so important to me...God Bless You All, and I thank Hawk and everyone for this forum...

I know I have to be careful, and I am leaning on the side of conservative with this exercise, I take the time to apply my thacker first, and then warm the unit up with a hot soak....I take some arginine with pom first also, get the blood flowing...oh I got the pomegranate 250mg from natures bounty for $8. 60 capsules, I take them with bilberry and grape seed, I will post this on the other thread.....but thanks again Veterans for your help with the VED....March 15th will be six months for me..Ives of March:).......I'm going for Mick's plan...two months and Patience...God Bless...

Rico
Title: Pull and tug....
Post by: Rico on September 21, 2006, 10:48:49 AM
Tim,

I think the reasoning behind the Soma protocol with the VED is to pull and tug on the scar tissue, I have been using the VED now and after only five times use with the unit....I can a more symmetrical shape to my unit, I know it is too soon to notice any real big change, but it has like I said taken a more uniform shape to it.....by using the small cylinder you are forcing the scar tissue forward, then using the other TUBES!! use pull full the side and then going back to the small you pull forward, like stretching a piece of taffy....or rolling out dough ect....you have to go from side to side and forward, I do believe using three cylinders would be best, but since Angus use only two and had success and the article I read about in Europe used two, but the small cylinder was always used.....

When I do hamstring stretch  before my run I always warm up first, never stretch  cold, then when I put my hands against a wall and hold it, it is controlled, like the small cylinder does.....by not letting the scar, which yours sounds like it is bilateral on the septum it will go forward, this will make it thinner I would think and easier to move to the side.....

These thought patterns are more along the lines of a physical therapist than a pill pusher....although I think maybe a combination can be good also....I do thacker formula for one hour before my exercises and conditioning of my plaque....

If I was you Tim I would use only the small tube for two to three weeks, and then a medium cylinder for two weeks like the protocol says.....what do you have to lose, and what you are doing now doesn't seem to be the ticket....

And when all else fails....dial up the Old Man.....

Take care brother...

Rico
Title: SYMETRICAL!!!
Post by: Rico on September 21, 2006, 12:08:42 PM
Dear forum members and guest....

I have only been using the VED for under a week....tonight will be my six time with the small cylinder...after the fourth time I noticed that my unit was more uniformed in shape, like a roll of quarters, perfect shape.....it has never been like this....it is like clay being molded or something....

When I got peyronies, my penis would fall all over the place after shaking from going to the bathroom, flop to the side ect...bend and was just lifeless.....I never had shrinkage in the flaccid state, maybe the opposite, but lifeless.....hang to the side at bend.....

I feel positive about this shaping so far.....I'm taking it easy on the pump....I might even go for three weeks with the small cylinder....the first week I have been doing is really a warm for me for the 26 week protocol....acclimate myself with the VED.....

It really is different from what I expected and anyone out there thinking of it...I can only say, don't think of the ED part....think of it as a exercise machine.....

Since I use the dmso(thacker) with this, I will post it here, I found also that my unit has gotten use to the dmso formula I use, I don't burn anymore and it seems to absorb the mixture(apple cider, castor oil, dmso) faster also......I put one tablespoon of the mixture on a slow drip with eye dropper for one hour before the exercising/conditioning of plaque..... the only other thing I'm doing is argininge and alc and a very healthy diet and exercise..... I quit smoking/ which I never did until this crap:) and divorce! I have been running three miles a day and doing my jiu-jitsu and pilates.... I feel great..... I have been doing some advil pm also..... I feel this helps with inflammation at night....

You have to almost use this VED to understand what the Old Man has been saying...and some of the other guys too:).... but let's face it, the Old Man is the guru!!  But my unit is so pressed up against the tube it forces it to shape without tearing the scar, more conditioning it for further stretching.... I don't know but seeing my unit hang like a perfect roll of quarters made me think something is working....

I have been doing a little warm down with the pump also....I have always found this to work for me in sports....so after I reach the Maxim pumps say 7 for me now....and end my exercises....I then wait and do 6..5...4...3....and then finish.....I feel a warm down is always a good thing when exercising....cool down....it is just like after I run...I walk a mile afterwards...or shadow box for 5 minutes.....just a thought....I don't see that this can hurt anyone and I do believe it would be of benefit....

Best regards..... I hope this post found you all in good spirits!!

Rico
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on September 21, 2006, 12:48:56 PM
In response to a message elsewhere abou thte VED...

I am using the small tube right now. It does increase the tubular appearance of the penis when it is "erected" that way. I not a couple of effects that the larger tube does not exert. First, I see a small tendency towards edema in the loose skin near the Glans (I am circumcised). So when I am done, there can ne a transient appearance of fullness that is related to that edema, and not to a sustained enlargement. Second, I am not stretched out as long. I am not sure if this is real or merely an optical illusion related to the tubes. But it appears to not exert as much tug longitudinally as the bigger cylinder. Third it definitely does not exert much lateral expansion on the sides, since it is a very tight squeeze to get into the tube anyway when I am even slightly hard. I get around that by using lots of lube and starting whren I am soft but loose.

The problem I am having is that the generalized advancement of my disease seems to be going ahead despite therapy (I doubt because of it). This is very discouraging, to say the least. The advancement seems to be in the form of small dents running circumferentially around the shaft, limited to the left side. I sense that if they advance and contract, that I will develop a major curve to the left, more like a letter C, than like an letter L.

So what I do for now is to do the smaller cylinder, and to top it off with a couple or three sessions with the large tube when I am done. To me, that *feels* like what I ought to be doing, since it feels like the dents developed while I was doing the smaller cylinder, and had stopped the larger one. Also, since I have had more of a problem with narrowing than with deviation, the whole cylinder thing has been more of a crap shoot for me anyway. So, I am going to go to a doc and see what I can get done for myself with Pentox and viagra.

Tim
Title: medicate or rehabilate....
Post by: Rico on September 21, 2006, 01:48:12 PM
Tim,

You are a smart man and professional in the medical field...plus you are experience with your own condition, which sounds more like a acute form of peyronies with a underlying issue with your vascular system....thus effecting the whole tunica.....

You say that the VED was a crap shoot anyway....and you did say for you.....I don't know if this is true.....I'm not saying that pentox and viagra are not for you....but I think to go to a pure medicating purpose and give up on the mechanical approach isn't what I would do....sometimes a doctor can be his own worst patient.....

I know you where going to go on the eight week road to wellness program...have you done this?

While you at the doctor, have him write you a script for a medical grade VED with the three cylinders....

I don't know if you are getting plenty of fresh air and exercise...man that Pentox is some nasty stuff....Viagra everyday??  You might be better off with yoga everyday and a juicier and a more complex form of arginine..ornithine and glutamine.....

Have you tried the thacker formula yet?  Or a epsom salt bath for a week straight?

Correct me if I'm wrong please, but you haven't followed the 26 week protocol....and how often and how regular where you with your treatment with the VED..... I know you have been trying the verapamil....electric pysion machine.... for how much...over a thousand dollars....and the extras....but people will follow this to the letter and spend the money....but because it is VED...tack one together in there garage or make one in art class and then not follow the protocol.....why is this???  Because some guy in a white coat with a tongue depressor in his pocket didn't tell you too?

Medicate or Mechanical..... or both.....and maybe a little alternative medicine i.e. dmso(thacker formula)...

I guess my thought is that if I didn't give myself the best chance with the VED (medical grade) and a protocol that the Old Man endorsed....it would of been a crap shoot for me also.... and I hope anyone who is looking or leaning in this direction will bide by the Old Man's wisdom..... I have been around the block and I trust Him... I can feel his energy and it is a good vibe.... trust is important to me... or I should say Faith!!

Take care and good luck at the doctors, he is in for a rude awakening:)..... make sure he gets your bill when you school him on peyronies, I wish I could be a mouse in the corner:)..LOL

Best regards as always,

Rico
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on September 21, 2006, 05:02:41 PM
Hi Rico,

I have seen the tubes for the SOMA - I own "medical quality" cylinders and a high quality pump - I just didn't spend as much money and I didn't give it to Augusta!

So I have a larger sylinder (about 2.25 inch diameter) and 7-8 inches long, and a 9.5 inch long by 1.5 inch diameter tube. I have done the larger VER over 20 weeks on a daily basis - I only recently started using the smaller cylinder. But instead of acting upon my curve (which is near the end), I saw instead no effect on the curve, and a *worsening* of the denting process.

So attributing cause and effect is not really possible. All the other crap that can affect Peyronies Disease could have been there making me worse - so who knows? Maybe the smaller cylinder is why my dents are worse - or maybe without it I would be twice as bad in the past three weeks. It's all guess work. But I do not feel like I have the luxury to blindly stick to a protocol that might be ignoring MY most pressing need, which is (or might be, I should say) the lateral expansion of the shaft to fill out the dents. Since my curvature is not so severe, I do not "need" to straighten it so much.

I am doing what I can - I need to do more. My diet is pretty good - most only organic, but not as good as your diet, nor is my exercise as good as yours. My problems with testosterone are also going to complicate things - since it is harder to get up and get going - it takes a lot of motivation.

But tonight I am putting my home gym back together (I had to move it to another room), and trying to make going into it and working out part of my routine. If I could learn to get to bed on time, it might be easier!

Tim
Title: Almost bought the Soma today...
Post by: DannyOcean on September 21, 2006, 05:28:28 PM
Hey all.  I was going to buy the Soma today but stopped just short for a couple of reasons:

1.  I didn't realize you had to have a prescription to buy it.  I was thinking that I could just called up Augusta and get it ordered but apparently not.  I'm supposed to go in for a follow-up visit to my urologist in a few weeks so maybe I'll just wait until then to talk with him about the VED and see if I can get a scrip.  Has anyone been able to purchase this without a prescription?

2.  This thread (https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php?topic=300) was a bit concerning.  As I mentioned before, the reviews of the VED on here have almost seemed to good to be true.  Everyone tries other stuff with limited or no success and yet it seems like everyone who uses the VED improves dramatically.  That's great but I also wonder if (especially after having read that thread) some of the posts weren't legit.  It does seems like most of the posters were veterans though and Old Man has been around here long enough and given good enough advice that I'm convinced he's not a scammer.

I'd love to hear thoughts on this.  $500 is a significant expenditure for me at this stage in my life not to mention the time invested in doing the VED therapy.  If it really does help I'd like to get started sooner rather than later so if y'all think it's worth talking to my urologist about before our next check-up please let me know.  Thanks!
Title: Don't be discouraged but...
Post by: Steve on September 21, 2006, 05:39:14 PM
Danny,

Please don't be discouraged by my post, but I wanted to be totally honest with you.  I've been using the Soma VED now for over 17 weeks (I'm at week 17 of the 26 week protocol, but I had to re-start a couple of times and I've had some 'gaps' in my excercising), and so far, I've seen no results.  I'm not putting the VED down, only stating that in my case, so far, it hasn't helped.

Apparently, I've got a tough case as you an see by my signature line.  I went through Topical Verapamil, and then 12 intralesional injections (ouch :o), and am now on the VED.  After the shots were finished with no results, I asked my Uro to write me a prescription for the Soma (the Rx form was on their web site).  I submitted it to my insurance, but they said no deal!  I'm getting it paid for with 'pre-tax' dollars using our flex account, so at least that'll help.

I'm going to stick with the Soma for at the very least the 26 week protocol to see if anything develops.  Also, at the suggestion of our own Old Man, I'll probably stay with it for quite a while longer until a magic bullet is found (lets see now...another 40 years of VED use--if I believe the 'men's magazines', I should be about 12' long by then  ;D).

Like I said, Please don't be discouraged from the VED by this post, but I just wanted to let you know that we are real people out here, and Hawk's done an exceptional job of keeping the scammers cleaned out.

Steve
Title: Re: VED purchase
Post by: Old Man on September 21, 2006, 06:21:16 PM
Danny Ocean:

I can understand your position on the VED very thoroughly. It would only be fair to you to say that the VED does not work for all guys. The last percentage report that was seen from any trials that were conducted in the past state approximately 90% saw results for ED and about 85 or so percent for Peyronies Disease. I believe that it closer to 95% or better for Peyronies Disease than that shown in that report. Can't for the life of me remember which site it was posted on the web.

Anyway, if you get the right medical code shown on the doctor's report of your visit. it is possible to get some insurance companies to cover at least a portion of the cost. Dr. Tim has a site that you can purchase separate cylinders in various sizes that can and will work just as well as the Somaerect STF or the Soma Correct. You might want to PM him to get the actual web site and the particulars on how he ordered his cylinders and pump.(He may have posted the site somewhere on this topic, so look back several days or weeks here.) I have talked to him in PMs and I am satisfied that the items he is using will be quite similar or equal to the other medical grade VEDs. You can save bucks by using Tim's method of building your own. Several guys have already made their own VEDs and are showing success.

I don't know enough of your personal background in insurance coverage, your age, etc. to advise any action, but if you are on Medicare or are a veteran/retired military, you can be eligible for coverage under those umbrellas.

Hope that this will help with your decision. If there is anything else I can help with, just let me know here or give me a PM.

Best to you, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: DannyOcean on September 21, 2006, 07:35:51 PM
Good stuff guys...let me reply in turn:

Steve: I appreciate your honesty here.  It's actually encouraging to me to hear both positive and negative things as I'd have a hard time believing this works for everyone.  My case of Peyronies Disease is fairly minor so I'm holding out hope that I can be one of the ones this helps.

Rico: It sounds like you are doing all the right stuff.  Funny how Peyronies Disease can make us healthier and be a blessing in disguise in some ways...not that I wouldn't snap my fingers and make it go away if I could. :)

Old Man: Thank you as well.  Your support on this forum has been invaluable and I do hope I can be in that 85% category.  I will PM Tim to see about the "do-it-yourself" VED both to save money and avoid having to get a script. 

Thank you guys so much!!!
Title: Re: VED-Just received mine
Post by: Mister Dillon on September 22, 2006, 11:17:50 AM
I finally ordered my VED last week and I received it yesterday.  I purchased the SomaErect-stf model.  At my age (64) I do not have time to try to get it covered by Medicare next year or the VA now--I just bought it outright.  (the price is 595 but they will give a discount of around $100 if you ask)

So far so good--As I believe Rico said,it is hard to know exactly how it will work or feel until you have a unit in hand (so to speak)

Right now I am just going through easy and light negative pressure to get used to the VED.  I hope to start on my program soon and I hope to hear from "old man" to help me set it up.

I will keep all of you posted on the progress and results

Dillon

Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices/new insert for Soma Correct
Post by: Old Man on September 22, 2006, 02:56:23 PM
Note to all:

I recently received the new sizing insert for the old Soma Correct VED. It will fit into the C cylinder of the Soma Correct with no problem as it is the same size. The old insert was causing a pinching effect where a gap occurred between the insert and the cylinders when assembled. The pinching effect was caused when the skin or tissue was being drawn into that gap causing the pain and/or discomfort. The new insert closes this gap leaving no space there.

The new insert has been thoroughly tested by me and as far as I can determine, it has eliminated the problem. This insert is available from the manufacturer of the Soma Correct at a cost of $17.50 plus S&H. It can be ordered by calling their 1+800 number. (Not promoting that company, just stating where the product is available for informational purposes only.)

Another note on the pinching effect. It has come to my attention from several guys on the forum that another pinching occurs when the head of the penis is confined in the A cylinder of the VED. Testing reveals that this pinching or discomfort can be eliminated by making sure that you lubricate that portion of the cylinder well. This should eliminate this problem as it did for me.

The above is furnished for informational purposes and carries my usual caveat about representing any company at any time. I have no financial or other interest in any company promoting men's health products. Will be glad to help any and all with VED problems and/or their use.

Best regards to all,

Old Man
Title: Re: New Soma insert for $17
Post by: Hawk on September 22, 2006, 04:23:34 PM
Just an opinion here, but a very strong one.  I would think that any unit sold by Agusta Medical that is within the warranty period would have the defective, pinching, cylinder replaced free of charge.  A small thing to expect from a "medical quality VED" that costs upwards of $500.00.  I don't consider a cylinder that does not pich your penis to be and extra, an add-on, or an upgrade.  I consider it to be a fix for a defective design.  It is the least one would expect and the least that a reputable company would settle for.
Title: Extra parts...
Post by: Rico on September 22, 2006, 05:07:55 PM
Hawk,

I was surprise they didn't throw in a couple extra seals and more lube......

Rico
Title: No-go on the VED for now...
Post by: DannyOcean on September 22, 2006, 08:43:35 PM
So I communicated with my urologist (a very repuable uro from all I've heard) today and he said "no-go" on the VED.  Didn't give a reason why (we traded voicemails) but just said that at this stage (I've had Peyronies Disease for about three months) he would advise against it.  He has me on a rountine of Viagra/Pentox/L-Arginine right now (to which I'm adding Gingko and ALC) and recommends keeping that course of action and seeing him in another month.  Since I can't get the VED without a script and am hesitant to build my own I think I'm going to forego it for now and bring it up again in a month when I see him in person.  I'm a little bummed because I wish I could "do more" but at the same time I guess I also don't mind hanging on to my $500 a little longer and having a extra 20 minutes freed up each day. :)

I'll keep y'all posted and will also let you know what he says about the VED when I see him next.
Title: It is a 26 week protocol....
Post by: Rico on September 23, 2006, 01:06:45 AM
Danny Ocean,

When I made up my mine to use the VED, I had to wait almost six weeks before I got mine, the new soma was suppose to be coming out and they said they had fixed the pinching ect...it really isn't that much different and I could of order the ring....but heck, a few weeks is not going to make that much difference....I took the time to get my inflammation under control and read every article on the VED I could....

Bring some studies in and tell the doctor you are not using the devise for ED, and it is a exercise, short pumps ect....they think you are going to pump it up and throw the ring on for 30 minutes and ride the pony....this is how it got the bad rap for peyronies....I would down load the spivey report and bring that with you also....

I plan on making another visit with my urologist so I can educate him so some of my brothers that are not on this form will have choices, because he is the star of the movie "ClueLess"  he told me the last thing I should ever do is VED....he wrote my script without a question two months later....

Rico
Title: VED Mania
Post by: ComeBacKid on September 23, 2006, 01:58:52 AM
Danny,

I like you recieved the same type of reaction from my doctor, he pretty much rejected the VED and laughed me out of the physicians clinic.  I must say I couldn't agree more with hawk on replacing the defective pinching cylinder free of charge, especially after one drops $595 on a VED.  I would encourage all who are using the soma correct as myself, to finish the 26 week protocol and keep measurements as hawk has prompted all to do.  We need to collect data on this.  I really wish Augusta would publish any studies they have out there, I'm wondering when they will publish these studies?  We have a lot of people working with the VED and especially the soma, I think a poll is something that would benefit us all as I have called for in the past, someone should take the lead and create one for our forum.  I have no doubt in my mind that the VED will work for some people as i have talked to 5 people now who saw results, however I really question efficacy rates of 90%, just seems to good to be true.  For now we can gather data as a forum, as we did regarding the Verapamil Injections, and to everyone who is pumping, keep on pumping and finish the protocol!

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on September 23, 2006, 01:05:27 PM
Danny,

Working in your favor is that he has you on what might be the best medicine (or did you have to tell him to do that?). I think that you might be able to get better on what you are taking alone (which would be terrific).The VED will always be available to you, and if you worsen while on your current regimen, let him know and make him go faster.

Tim
Title: Re: Best medicine?????????
Post by: misterb on September 23, 2006, 03:43:26 PM
Quote from: Rico on September 23, 2006, 02:15:52 PM
There is another site on the net peyronies.org  they just posted on there forum the Q&A for August... which I might warn is disturbing as far as a no hope look at this condition....

You got that right. I read the Aug. Q&A this morning and I've felt extremely discouraged ever since. Reading about those guys getting walked out on doesn't leave much hope for a young single guy like me.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: DannyOcean on September 24, 2006, 01:13:49 PM
Thanks guys for the replies.  I will keep you posted on the progress and anything new I hear when I go in to see the doc again next month.  It's a bit frustrating to not be able to do more at this point but the regimen I'm on does seem pretty good (and thanks to all of you as I've pieced it together largely from reading the threads here).  Fortunately (I think my lucky stars for this everyday) I have a pretty mild case of Peyronies Disease, no pain, proper "functioning" and only a small reduction in size.  I will continue to believe that the best lies ahead for me and everyone here on the forums. 
Title: Obe Wan Kenobe........
Post by: Rico on September 24, 2006, 02:54:11 PM
Obe Wan Kenobe.....aka Old Man...,

I have a question for you Old wise one:)...

Negative pressure will not let the penis to fully engorge, but will allow penile vascularization and stretching of the Peyronie's plaque....

My question is this negative pressure....is this the same method used when inducing a erection for ED?....I guess I'm confuse if this exercise I'm doing won't allow the penis to fully engorge then how is this used for ED.... can you explain the mechanics please....

May the Force me with You!!

Rico
Title: Re: Mechanics of VEDs for erections
Post by: Old Man on September 24, 2006, 05:49:23 PM
Rico:

You are right about the VED being used for Peyronies Disease exercises. The three cylinder method is self explanatory in the sense that one starts off with the smaller cylinder and progresses to the largest one. The course of therapy is designed to give the penis varying degrees of stretching and exercise to allow for any results of the Peyronies Disease therapy.

The negative pressure being used for Peyronies Disease therapy is used in a similar way as being used for erections. The largest cylinder that will allow the penis to expand to its fullest size is always used when going for erections. Some cases need a smaller sized cylinder due the smaller size of ones penis and they will know, etc. The retainers must be used to hold up an erection when one is impotent to the extent they are necessary. Some individuals having undergone a non nerve sparing prostatectomy, medical or have other problems that caused them to be impotent must use the retainers to hold up their erection long enough for intercourse. One must experiment with the different retainer sizes to determine the correct tension. Most VEDs will have the retainers in the package when purchased.

Let me know if you have further questions that I may answer.

Old Man

Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: englishsyr on September 24, 2006, 06:50:25 PM
I'm still building my courage to go to the Dr's and ask about a ved. There is something inside of me that keeps stopping me.  God bless my wife for putting up with me and my negative action
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on September 24, 2006, 09:45:14 PM
If your ego prevents you from getting help, then you can do two things (do both). Try to figure out why you are letting your ego get in the way of getting better, and if you really want to do that (ie - will pride allow your penis to get worse instead of better?); and consider going via the web to get a non medical VED like many of us have - it is cheaper and works exactly the same way. A GOOD cylinder will cost about 70-80- dollars US, and a good pump will cost about US$30. At about $240 that is about half the cost, and more private.

So, if neither of those options are appealing to you (and you are wishing you could start the VED therapy), then get yer butt into therapy and ask for help with what holds you back. Speaking from personal experience, I had to get professoinal help with my MIND before I was finally able to embrace this form of self-care. Now, I wonder what I was so worried about. You can do this - just start and it will move forward.

Tim
Title: Re: Getting it out in the open.
Post by: Old Man on September 24, 2006, 10:33:05 PM
englishsyr:

Just want to add my comments to those of Rico and Tim. I know that for some men talking about their private parts, their libido and how they perform with their organs is somewhat awkward. I know first hand, as I have been there and done that.

There was a time way back when that I could not even use a public restroom because of feeling embarrassed. I thought my tool was so small that it would not measure up to those of the "jocks" that always bragged about their size and ability to perform.

Several operations on my private parts and a radical prostatectomy took away all my modesty and fear of being seen, etc. It took things like that to break me out of my "fear" of being seen much less talk about it. Today, I counsel with guys all the time about their men's health problems and prostate cancer patients in need of talking with someone who has been through the "cancer thing". I know from this experience what you are facing and would like to say that you should swallow your pride and get on with trying to find something that would help.

You say, and I know from her posts and PMs, that you have a supporting wife. So, trust her intuition and lelt her help you with this. The two of you can be a team and that way enter a relationship that you never thought possible before. You know, this problem affects both of you.

Would like to help you in any way possible, so just let me and/or any others know what we can do and we will be there for you. Remember, you are not alone, thousands of other men face the same problem.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED Mania
Post by: hopeful on September 28, 2006, 03:15:14 PM
Hey ComeBackid-

It is me Hopeful- How is the VED working?- I am still the same- I dont knowwhether to buy ne or not- or even try IONOTO... Hopeful is FRUSTRATED MAN

HOPEFUL!
Title: Re: Hopeful
Post by: ComeBacKid on September 28, 2006, 03:38:15 PM
Hopeful,

I'm not posting a progress report until the halfway mark in about 3 weeks, and when I'm done at the 26 week mark, so far its hard to tell if there has been much change really, keep your eyes open for my thorough evaluation, I will say my condition has not gotten worse while on the VED, thats for sure.  The stretching process is very slow and takes time, many months, and for some maybe close to a year depending on if the tissue is calcified or not down there. 

The Iontophoresis the first time through was a complete failure man, I did 25 treatments with high dosage 20mg/mL verapamil with IOMED pads, administered using the positive red lead on the penis.  It did absolutely nothing.  Dr. Carrol's office called for a followup and wants me to buy more drugs and do another 25, I just don't have the money right now as I've dropped close to $3,000 on Peyronies Disease treatments since April.

ComeBackid
Title: Cheap good quality handpump
Post by: Tim468 on September 28, 2006, 05:00:08 PM
This combined with the tubing and adapters can make for about half the price for a VED system.

http://www.scienceartandmore.com/browseproducts/Vacuum-Pump---Hand.HTML

Check it out.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Old Man on October 03, 2006, 02:19:13 PM
Note to all:

I have looked into the sites that Dr. Tim has listed as good sources of medical quality items to make your own VED. They apparently of very good quality and would be suitable in making one's own device.
There is no reason why one made with these mateials would not work equally as well or better than the pricey models from medical supply houses.

Old Man
Title: VED construction materials
Post by: Angus on October 03, 2006, 05:24:53 PM

   Old Man, I second that... the hand pump in that link is definitely high quality. If they're carefully constructed with attention to detail, there isn't one thing wrong with self-constructed VED's (I'm going with the term self-constructed to replace home-made. Home-made may imply less than stellar workmanship). Some of the materials I used were from Lowes and Home Depot, common building materials sites. In my experience, constructing ones own VED is a valid option that doesn't require a garage full of specialized tools... just the basics.
Title: Build a VED
Post by: ComeBacKid on October 04, 2006, 03:34:33 PM
Tim,

Did you make your own pump from scratch? 


Angus,

Has anyone besides Angus made a VED?  Angus perhaps you could write a list of instructions on how to build a VED  Can any Joe Peyronies build a VED from scratch, does it involve any special skills?  Perhaps a list of instructions on how to build one could save people a lot of money.  I think we should get a VED pull up as well and get some data on these things from our trusted members.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on October 04, 2006, 10:31:37 PM
The pump I used I just posted a link for.

The cylinders I have previously posted links for - I did not make them from scratch. I bought them for $72 each. Somewhere in this thread is a very complete description of the costs and the sites I went to to get the stuff.

So no, they are not "home made". But the total cost for 2 cylinders and a good hand pump was about $160 (maybe about 230 for all three cylinders) - a lot cheaper than a "prescription" device.

I did not buy a cheap novelty item however. It is hard to tell looking online, but I went with vendors of "sex toys" who I know only sell good quality - and that worked out fine (also posted below).

Tim
Title: Puffiness after Pumping
Post by: ComeBacKid on October 06, 2006, 12:48:33 AM
Has anyone noticed after pumping a puffiness or a sac of skin that looks like its filled with fluid after pumping?  I just noticed this has started since I've started pentox and it may be that blood is being draw up because it is a blood thinner.  I haven't changed my pumping method and did not have this problem before I was on pentox for 10 weeks.  The sac runs across the top and is narrow in width, it doesn't cover much area and seems to vanish by the next day.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: Build a VED
Post by: Angus on October 06, 2006, 01:25:24 PM
Quote from: pudder135 on October 04, 2006, 03:34:33 PM
Tim,

Did you make your own pump from scratch? 


Angus,

Has anyone besides Angus made a VED?  Angus perhaps you could write a list of instructions on how to build a VED  Can any Joe Peyronies build a VED from scratch, does it involve any special skills?  Perhaps a list of instructions on how to build one could save people a lot of money.  I think we should get a VED pull up as well and get some data on these things from our trusted members.

      Somewhere back in this thread I have a post that describes the materials I used. There is enough information there to make a VED. The highest tech items on them are the vacuum gauges that can be bought online or elsewhere. My VED's are relatively low-tech projects mostly made from things bought at building materials centers, except for the gauges and acrylic tubing which were bought online. I have less than $50 in both VED's. A person could go as high tech or low tech as they want and still end up with a useable device. The key is to use common sense, measure everything twice and remember that it is a relatively simple device that is just a tube with a pump attached to one end of it, with particular attention paid to the tube sizes. The ones I made aren't works of manufacturing art or anything, but they sure got the job done.
     
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: FuelIIFire on October 08, 2006, 08:13:06 PM
hey all!  has anyone heard of this product?? ???
if anyone knows of it or have heard things about this ..let me know

http://www.peyronies-treatment.com/somacorrect.html
Title: Its the cool thing to do... the soma
Post by: ComeBacKid on October 08, 2006, 08:53:16 PM
Fuel,

Heard of it... I'm using it!  :D  We have a handful of people using the soma correct, really when we talk about VED's its one of two that we really talk about.  The three cylinder protocol is believed to stretch the plaque in different ways (length and width) to help reduce the curve and restore lost size.  I think we have at least 7 people right now working with some kind of VED and at least 3 others besides myself working with the soma correct.  You can make your own, this has been done by Angus who has seen good results through VED usage. If your crafty making your own can save you money.  If you have any specific questions on the soma feel free to PM me.  The product seems to be legitimate however and we've had people on here who have reported results using it.  The protocol is 26 weeks, each week you change to a different cylinder to stretch your plaque in different ways. 

Title: Soma Correct protocol...
Post by: Rico on October 08, 2006, 09:09:55 PM
Has that web site been out for awhile? I think it is new, because I just got the somacorrect stf, it just became available....it says peyronies treatment...maybe the FDA has loosen up.....does Carrol work with Levine?
I just finished my third week with the VED, the insurance companies should be coughing up the funds for the ved and phyison machine, anyway I think it is a positive thing to see this ad, even though it is marketing.

Can one go in for the treatments, with a better machine to deliver the verapamil?

Rico

Title: Re: Rico
Post by: ComeBacKid on October 08, 2006, 11:08:59 PM
Rico,

Dr. Carrol told me he does know Dr. Levine well and is a colleague of his.  To go as far as saying he works with him, in my opinion and from what Dr. Carrol told me he doesn't actually do anything with Dr. Levine as far as clinical trials. 

I got my insurance to cover $146 for my soma correct which cost me $595.  They claim you can get a VEd through their in network vendor.  I've challenged my coverage and have not gotten a response back yet for my VEd coverage.  In fact this reminds me, they told me to wait at least 60 days when I was calling in before, its now been just about 60 days.  The key to getting things covered is be very persistent and not go away, and write to everyone you can.  As far as the PHYSION unit, I had no chance to get it covered, I tried hard and they rejected it, I doubt most insurance companies will even think twice about covering the PHYSION machine and boy is it expensive.  Tim has told me there is another machine out there with more power for Iontophoresis but it is very expensive and I just don't have the cash right now.

ComeBackid
Title: physion....
Post by: Rico on October 08, 2006, 11:26:54 PM
ComeBackid,

You would think they would offer the physion machine at the clinic or doctors office, like a visit for shots, do they?

I ended up paying 466. dollars for my somacorrect ved , this included shipping... they have it listed for 610. on that site.... they told me it was 595. plus shipping, when they checked and said my insurance company wouldn't cover it, that they would offer me the discount, I did have to send in my blue cross card to them....

I guess I will just keep softening or trying to with the dmso(thacker) and keep up the protocol, I'm not going to shell out that much for the physion, too much cheese for me right now...

I wonder if they did a study without the verapamil? Or if this is a add on, the physion machine, 1300. hundred bucks.... to tell you the truth, if I knew it would work better than my dmso and ved, I would buy it....

I going to call my doctor and see if he can get one to use and let me be his rat:).....

Rico
Title: Do you know anyone who is on vacation year round?
Post by: ComeBacKid on October 08, 2006, 11:43:07 PM
Rico,

Dr. Carrol does offer in house treatments with the PHYSION machine, I don't know how much they cost, he claims an efficacy rate of "Almost everyone sees at least a minor reduction in curve," and "almost everyone gains size back."  He had no data to present me in the form of graphs or anything.  He did not explain to me how he measures reduction in curve, or size for that matter.  Hopeful and I have long talked about Dr. Carrol.  Hopeful has informed me he believes that Dr. Carrol got his degree in Mexico and operates many different ED clinics across the United State that simply dispense ED drugs.  It should be noted that he is not actually at his doctors office in Orlando, Florida.  After he was on vacation for 17 days and unable to change the code for the insurance companies in regards to my Soma correct, I asked his assitant how long he was on vacation for, I said "hes probably tanning down in the bahamas."  She then conceded Dr. Carrol is on vacation 365 days a year at his second home in Colorado in a ski resort town.  He sees his patients via teleconference and is never actually present in Orlando, Florida.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: not9inches on October 09, 2006, 10:21:58 PM
I am what i "think" into my 8 - 12th month of peyronies disease.(its hard to say when it actually started...as ive always had a very slight banana curve.  Ive already been to two urologists. they both say...wait and see. My curvature is about 25 - 30 degrees now...and i can still get a raging hard on...and very little..but some discomfort during intercourse. But no real pain, persay. I am presently in a relationship and still not a real problem.  I have no lump that i can feel...but what is odd is i have a sort of an an indention where it bends. And yes...ive lost a bit of mass where it bends. I'm about 7 inches now.  Now my thought is that, after reading for weeks...that the VED treatment is what could help. I need advice from others. Like how long did you have to do it and what was your curvature amount? and how much did it help. Which one is best. How often do you do it?? WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS ...DO THEY REALLY WORK AT ALL????  I'm thinking of doing this on my own...NOW!!!!  Please reply back soon.
Title: Re: Not9inches
Post by: ComeBacKid on October 09, 2006, 10:34:42 PM
Not9inches,

Yes the VED really can work, I believe it is the most efficacious treatment there is out there for peyronies, however I don't agree with others assesments on how efficacious it is, it will not work for everyone.  It takes time, like 26 weeks or longer, its a slow process, your slowly remolding that scar tissue and plaque on the tunica overtime.  I have no really scientific data to offer you to prove it works.  The only thing I have is the first hand knowledge of talking to a handful of men on here who told me it helped them.  If your looking for further instruction you might want to seek the counsel of Old Man or Angus.  Others such as Mick and Soxfan have reported results as well.  I know myself, Rico, Steve, and others are working with the soma correct model right now as we speak.  Some people have had bad curvature and seen results, while others have had more mild cases.  The doctor has nothing else to offer me except verapamil injections and according to our own member poll the results are not impressive at all what so ever.  Besides doing the VED I'm taking l arginine and pentox.  Dr. Levine ( a top urologist on peyronies from chicago) prescribes the protocol of pentox, l arginine, and viagra to combat peyronies. Your curve sounds like it is managable, if I were you I'd act as early as possible, this is one thing I did not do looking back 7 years ago.  I took vitamin E cause thats why my urologist told me to take, and there was no Peyronies Disease support for me.  This forum has a lot of smart people and good information, look around, analyze things and if you have any questions feel free to PM me.  Check out the Peyronies Disease awareness area, this is something we are underachieving in and need motivated members to get involved in to help get our cause out there in the public eye. 

ComeBackid
Title: Left Handed Endorsement
Post by: Liam on October 10, 2006, 06:01:52 AM
My doc prescribed a VED to me after prostate surgery to prevent a loss in size common after a prostatectomy.  Insurance will pay for this.  How is that for an endorsement?  They must think it works (at least in that situation).
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: not9inches on October 10, 2006, 08:39:06 PM
Ok ...this is to anyone and everyone who uses a VED. I've looked at some of these contraptions and the price is rediculuos. Ok...for one...the hand pump/gauge tool is nothing more than a hand held vacuum pump and gauge. Just like mechanics use to create a vacuum working on cars. Im the son of a mechanic..and mechanics is not new to me...nor the tools.  So im thinking buy a sex toy shop item. Then i see that the tubes have to be of good quality. And of course you want a reliable pump and gauge. Ok. But paying 500.00 bucks for this set up is a RIP OFF. Build it or buy it cheaper. So i found this outfit. Anyone used their product??

http://store.newart.com/pumcylvidsta.html
Title: Overpriced VED's or quality service
Post by: ComeBacKid on October 10, 2006, 08:53:58 PM
Not9inches,

I've actually brought up the point to Augusta Medical Systems that their product is really overpriced for what it consists of.  The representative Mike Davis responded that the reason it costs more is the lifetime customer service one has that buys their product, such as calling in and talking to a clinical specialists such as himself.  Also he points out to the lifetime warranty one can get on the soma correct and other models.  I wanted to post this as it was the response to many of the critics saying the pump is overpriced.  Personally I didn't have the time to make a pump but if I did I would of constructed my own.  Be careful though a lot of the pumps out there are really cheesy sex toys that will break, personally it is my opinion that one would want a hand (manual) pump, you can easily feel when you have to much or to little pressure.  If your looking for guidance on making your own pump PM Angus as he is down so and open to help others.  If you have anymore questions feel free to PM me not9, glad I could be of help to you.

ComeBackid
Title: NewArt is OK
Post by: Tim468 on October 10, 2006, 09:13:31 PM
ComeBackid,

Although it is generous to offer to help, it is a fact that the help has already been offered and is available on this very page. I have personally posted in this thread links to high quality cylinders, and a cheap but well made hand pump. I have posted total costs, and contrasted it to the costs of the medical systems.

For those who want to take the time to save even more money, Angus has posted instructions on how to make one, with images of samples he has made. We have posted links to sites that sell tubing that could be cut to length, etc.

We do not need to recreate the wheel every time.

Although there are a lot of posts to wade through, the information that not9inches seeks is right here already.

As for NewArt - their devices are fairly priced (although their pumps are too pricey, IMHO) and well made.

To not9inches - I am not miffed at your request for help! Rather, it underscores the need for a page with information that is not hidden by all the back and forths of messages. We are working on developing information pages so that a (relative) newcomer to the site can find answers to the questions he might have more easily - without wading through messages.

Tim
Title: Posts from the past and Andy Rooney on store bought VED's
Post by: Hawk on October 10, 2006, 09:20:08 PM
With new members, we often get redundant with posts.  Both Angus and Tim have constructed VED's and included links to products in their posts.  Angus has step by step instructions and photos attached to his post.  I see absolutely no point in a gauge.  I think Old Man would agree.  I do not care what a gauge says.  If I feel discomfort I will stop or reduce vacuum.  If I feel under expanded i will slowly increase the vacuum.  If you buy a good tube.  And a good pump, you are done.  To me, life time support is like life time support for my belt.  It consists of 2 or 3 pieces and only one has a moving part.  A vacuum is a vacuum.  If your pump breaks buy another.  A decent cylinder will never go bad.  You can hand it down for generations.

What can a representative tell me that is not public information, especially when they cannot even market for or mention Peyronies Disease per FDA order?  There are people on this forum that get up and wonder how to get rid of some of their money every day, and others that do not have 2 minutes to catch a breath.  To them it may make sense to buy a VED.  To anyone else that can glue a broked toy or put two legos together, I think it is strange to pay $500.00 for a VED.  With life time support they want to charge you for a piece so the first device they sold you does not pinch your penis.  It is almost material worthy for  "On the light side".  Unlike cool bottled water with contents that are inferior to tap water, you can't even flash your cool, name brand VED at the gymn to impress chics.  ;)
Title: VED Information
Post by: ComeBacKid on October 10, 2006, 09:26:13 PM
Tim,

I was merely answering questions in regards to the VED's seeming to pricey and offering a point of view as to why they might charge more than it cost to make the product.  I know instructions are posted in all the jungle of posts on this thread, but for a new member it can get confusing to wade through everything.  Not9inches approached me and told me he was having some problems and confused, I thought it would be particularly helpful to include that Angus who he can PM has built his own VED and could instruct him if he needs any help.  I remember how it was when I first started posting here, the bottom line is sometimes we will have to repeat information.  I have called before for a link or instructions on exactly how to make a VED with all the necessary parts and have them taken off this thread and made into an easy to read link off of the website or somewhere where someone can easily click on something like "How to build your own VED," and see instructions and pictures on how to do so, with links to the parts needed.  This way one would not have to search the entire thread. 

Hawk,

I agree with you I'm just pointing out what Augusta Medical Systems answer is to why their price costs the price they market it at, I figured it would be fair to post their response, I don't necessarily agree with it. I also agree that they should replace the defective pumps that cause pinching free of charge and not charge any fee at all to do so. 
Title: Re: ComeBackid
Post by: Hawk on October 10, 2006, 09:32:42 PM
I knew that.
Title: Re: Hawk
Post by: ComeBacKid on October 10, 2006, 09:34:05 PM
Hawk,

I know you knew I agree with you and that you know Augusta's response, however newbies and other people on here do not so I thought I'd post it for them.  ;)
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on October 10, 2006, 09:49:29 PM
Hawk:

"You can hand it down for generations."

Right... (said like Dr Evil)... "Here son, I want you to have this.. It's a genuine penis enlargment pump - just like in the Austin Powers movie! I wiped it off once, even. It's all yours!"

I personally cannot wait!

Tim
Title: Re: ComeBackid
Post by: Hawk on October 10, 2006, 10:08:42 PM
ComeBackid,

I meant, I knew that (your intent), not that I knew the information.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: ComeBacKid on October 10, 2006, 10:12:19 PM
Hawk,

At the end of the day I know that you know that I know that you knew I knew that you know I know you wear a thong you sexy beast  ;D

Title: Soma 26 week protocol....
Post by: Rico on October 10, 2006, 10:45:31 PM
Members and guest...

I would have to say that I'm happy with my somaerect stf...444. dollars is a lot of money, but I felt that the three cylinder with a good seal and warranty was a good value, since I understood I was also getting all of the ed rings with it, even though I wasn't going to use them...
I guess I felt that at least they were trying to help peyronies victims also, sure they are making money, but look at PDlabs and people spending 270. per month and getting nothing...

Reading the articles by Carrol and Levine ect..give me hope, they aren't going to get any respect if they show up with home made devises I rather support a company that is trying to help me and believes in there product and will go around the FDA to get it to market.....one can save 170. making there own, a little over two weeks of verapamil.......1300. dollars for the physion machine....maybe with some support the VED manufactures will come up with even a better product, on with heat ect....I also feel in the near future the insurance companies will have to pay for them and then I'm sure we will all want the best one out there....

Once one company starts getting some traction then you will see improvements in the devises for peyronies.....just think if they put the millions in the development of a mechanical devise, the state of art VED for peyronies, who knows if you suspend your unit in water, maybe salt water what would happen, different pressure ect....

Tim I think that the a cylinder is for a reason....to hold your unit in place like a straight jacket, this will press it against the tube wall, forcing the plaque is pancake out, to be molded later, and also to mold forward, this motion will cause for the hour glass to fill out, back and forth, the taffy technique.....

I have the hour glass myself...

Rico
Title: Re: Augusta Medical - Another View
Post by: Hawk on October 10, 2006, 11:14:11 PM
I personally have another view that might be more appropriate under "Off Topic".

I dispute that Augusta is trying to help Peyronies Disease patients.  While I have no dispute with self-interest and profit, Augusta medical systems is trying to help Augusta medical Systems earn as much money as they can. Secondly, the fact that they tried to do an end run around the FDA is not a virtue performed in your behalf.  It is a violation performed in their behalf.  Third, the shill posting on this forum from Augusta (Zeus/Lazarinni - now banned) pretending to be a Peyronies Disease patient and lying to promote their product at the possible expense of Peyronies Disease patient's dignity and emotions was a despicable act.  https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,300.0.html  Their denial and excuses instead of a public apology were nauseating.  Finally, their lack of even acknowledging a letter directly from Larry Holcomb to the president of Augusta to look into this matter shows the disregard they have for the Peyronies Disease community and specifically our members. Click below to read the letter
Quote from: Larry H on July 30, 2006, 05:05:19 PM

Is the suction on their product a real suction instead of a pretend suction?  The answer to that is a resounding yes.  Can you build a VED as good for $50.00? The answer to that is also a resounding yes as Angus has proven, (even less without a gauge).  Can you buy a life time of support for your self-constructed VEd for $250.00? EASILY, even if the pump broke 6 or 7 times.

If I had to choose between my penis rotting off and giving Augusta a dime which would I choose? 

Hmmmm, tough call.


PS: If I have been vague in my stand on this issue it was due to self-imposed restraint.





Title: Ved companies in general...
Post by: Rico on October 11, 2006, 12:14:10 AM
Hawk,

Wow, I hope I didn't hit a nerve:)....

You know me, I don't promote anyone or anything for a profit, theirs or mine, but to take a look in totality of the benefit it might be for us as peyronies brothers having companies in support of our cause, and as we know, money feeds the beast.....

Augusta I really don't know much about...a salesman is a salesman, out to make a sale, we all are into sales someway or another....do you think half of the medial reports on drugs you read are not sale driven? Some salesman with a degree...they are the worst cowboys, and they are out there.....

We all talk about studies on here, don't say this or that with out proof...who has used both the medical grade and a non medical grade, not followed the three cylinder protocol and been successful....I'm not saying my VED is better than a home made one...I don't know if it is....I'm glad I have this one...I feel I spent my money wisely by getting the newest and medical grade product with the three cylinders and the 26 protocol that was put out by them at one time....I have a plan....

I never thought I was going to be calling some dick pumper salesman and buying one of these things, but I did...the old man and others on here gave me the confidence and the spivey report and seeing the Carrol report also and once again the 26 week protocol seem like a real program....and Of course this forum for putting it all in the right light....

If the FDA was on there ass, just by answering the letter for a salesman going on a peyronies site might close them down, I'm sure if I was his adviser I might not suggest to answer this letter....remember if this would cause his business to shut down, it might not be in are best interest also....but one would have to believe that the VED and further improvements with it might be the cure for all of us....I do feel strongly that this devise can be improved and will play a role in the future for all of the peyronies brothers...and as more are accepted in the market place and competion comes to play, then the cost will come down, do different than computers and flat screen TV's.....as honest Abe said, "The Needs of the Many are More than the Few"....

The next Bill Gates of dick pumps might be lurking on this forum....build it and they will cum:).... five thousand people turn fifty every day, the baby boomers are going to drive this market, ED along with good VED's and proper drugs, together I believe they will find a way to live with peyronies....

Hawk I know you look out for us, keep the snake oil predators away from the door, and I thank you for it....I just had to put in my two cents on what I feel is the big picture and driving for better products and especially the VED market...why doesn't someone tear apart the physion machine, it probally has a hamster running on a treadmill and battery....1300. dollars...Oh I forgot you get verapamil with that, or you can choose the saline, isn't that salted water?

Rico

Rico
Title: Dr. Levine's Study?
Post by: ComeBacKid on October 11, 2006, 12:18:32 AM
Hmm...

"If the FDA was on there ass, just by answering the letter for a salesman going on a peyronies site might close them down, I'm sure if I was his advisor I might not suggest to answer this letter....remember if this would cause his business to shut down,"

Rico, I have a hunch that this is the exact reason they did not respond to our letter, not just a little trouble either, BIG TIME TROUBLE.  Does this excuse their conduct, not really.

There seems to be a pattern of behavior between Augusta Medical systems and Auxillium in not responding to our letters.  

Has anyone heard anything about Dr. Levines study being done with verapamil injections and the VED( I believe the soma correct model).  Perhaps Wantitstr8 could comment on this or find out some information on this since he sees Dr. Levine, I haven't seen him online for awhile though.  Last I heard that protocol was being started in early June, they should be well into the study by now.

Title: One bad apple....
Post by: Rico on October 11, 2006, 12:49:05 AM
Hawk,

My point is that you have one bad apple and we are condemning the medical grade VED..... who knows what that sales person is doing today, yes he could of gotten promoted for using skills to make a sale...maybe he got fired, maybe he went out and got drunk and blew his head off for selling dick pumps for a living, I don't care...I have a bent dick and enough problems...no I don't prey on people, I have skills in finance and can make money with them....thank God for my Math because my spelling sucks:)....and I can't dance, and now I can't service a rich woman with my Old Italian love muscle...so I have to work hard and honest to make a buck, but all I care about at this point it to get every facet of the people supplying information or programs for peyronies pulling on the same rope...they don't have to come on here anymore and say that it works, we are saying it....maybe he heard the story from one of his clients, or maybe he was a predator preying on us, like I said, I don't care, it works, go after PDlabs.... sometimes you have to let things die, it is healthy and the best way to help with ones health also, we have bigger fish to fry my friend....

Rico
Title: Re: Calling it what it is
Post by: Hawk on October 11, 2006, 12:58:44 AM
Quote from: Rico on October 11, 2006, 12:14:10 AM
Hawk,

Wow, I hope I didn't hit a nerve:)....

Rico,  As you know we are friends.  This has nothing to do with you and everything to do with despicable business practices and gross unprofessionalism. I never say a word when soma correct comes up as you know.  What pulled my chain is to characterize them as a concerned bunch of great guys when in fact they tried the lowest tactics ever directly documented against our members by ANY company.

Praise of the VED would not have gotten a response.  Praise of the Soma Correct would not have gotten a response.  Praise of those men and their practices is a whole different matter.

QuoteAugusta I really don't know much about...a salesman is a salesman, out to make a sale, we all are into sales someway or another....do you think half of the medial reports on drugs you read are not sale driven? Some salesman with a degree...they are the worst cowboys, and they are out there.....

Rico, maybe we are all salesmen in some sense.  I have been in direct sales.  Trust me, we all know we are not all like the ilk that would pose as a patient to feed on the insecurities of men that may be numbered among the Peyronies Disease patients reading posts.  You are not like that and I damned sure share nothing in common with that.  We labor to lift them as brothers not prey on them for gain.

As far as not doing the right thing to spare their rear-ends with the FDA, it is bogus justification for deciet.  That's why people justify lying, cheating, stealing, and murder.  "I had to do it for my own best interest"  If they had not used deceptive ads to start with they would not have had the problem with the FDA.  If they had not played the shill on the forum there would have been nothing to apologize for.  To use the one vile act as an excuse for the other vile act and then to use self-interest to avoid the taking an honorable stand is at the very least, illogical circular reasoning based on a total lack of integrity.

Conclusion, praise VED's all day.  Don't praise or excuse such conduct.  Instead, we should demand better or we become part of the problem..
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: not9inches on October 11, 2006, 05:40:37 PM
question about using the VED ( yes...i bought one...works fine)  If you have no problem getting an erection...whats wrong with going ahead and sticking it in the cylinder while erect..and then pump it up more.  Is there a link to a thread about different techniques on doing this?

Title: Pump from flaccid state
Post by: ComeBacKid on October 11, 2006, 05:55:42 PM
Not9inches,

If your using the soma correct and in cylinder A you wouldn't be able to fit an erect penis into that tube, you have to start from being flaccid and pumping up.  This cylinder purposely doesn't let your penis grow as big as it could so it holds the penis straight and stretches the peyronies plaque. If you have made your own or are using a bigger cylinder I suppose you could do this, but the protocol calls for pumping from the flaccid state, I've never heard anyone ask this question before, its possible you might do some damage, I would just start from the flaccid state.  It allows you to slowly fill your penis up with blood using negative pressure and then reach a max stretching point that you are comfortable with.  Even if you start off with an erection and pump a little and then hold, after that first cycle you have to release the negative pressure and allow your penis to shrink bank down to close to the flaccid state.  The release of the pressure and pumping back up again is the theraputic stretching and exercising of the penis, the protocol was designed to do this.  Apparently the protocol has been proven safe and I've never heard of anyone on here doing any permanent damage from the VED, if you chose to try a different protocol or method you will be exploring the potential risks or rewards of that method, for this reason I would just stick to the current method and protocol.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: not9inches on October 11, 2006, 11:52:39 PM
I tried this pump thing today. I have to tell ya...it's a very foreign feeling as your pumping it up. So much so that im afraid to pump it up all the way. No...I didn't experience any pain...but it's just damn weird feeling. Yea...im going to have to take this in small doses. Anyone else feel this way when they started?

I dont even know if i should be doing this. Afterall...i can still get a nice hardon naturally, and have sex with no difficulty. So why chance damaging it or causing any harm.?
Title: Re: Not9inches
Post by: Hawk on October 11, 2006, 11:56:48 PM
N9I,

I actually tend to agree with you.  A solid natural erection is : stretching, supplying very oxygen rich blood.  I am not sure what your VED is going to do more than that or even as well.
Title: It is pychical therapy...
Post by: Rico on October 12, 2006, 12:08:40 AM
N9I,

It is not sex, you don't want a erection, this is molding the tissue....it doesn't suppose to feel like a erection...you are conditioning the tissue, remolding it....I wouldn't even pump it if I was thinking of sex....do it and watch the news, that will depress you and you won't get hard:)...serious though it isn't sex, it is a exercise...

Rico
Title: Re:Not9inches
Post by: ComeBacKid on October 12, 2006, 12:43:31 AM
That weird feeling is normal, think about it, your doing something your not used to.  Give it two weeks and it will feel normal. In the beginning it felt weird for me as well, I remember the first time I tried out the soma, it was strange I put it away for a few weeks.  Just keep doing it, this could take more than 26 weeks, possibly a year.  In the beginning it will tight and not normal, this is ok, just take it easy and get used to it.  Stick to 10 cycles per day in the beginning.   Later as you get more comfortable you can up the cycles and time you hold your erections for.  If you have any questions feel free to PM me.  Trust me man you won't make this worse if you don't overpump.

Title: Re: Soma 26 week protocol....
Post by: hopeful on October 14, 2006, 09:01:53 AM
[Hey Rico.. I just bought a $30 pump- just to explore before making the move for a SOmma-2" diamater by 6 1/2 "- w/release valve- I suffer frm ED- and have heart arrythmia problem- and have not taken any Viagra, Cialis, etc- I have used it 4 times so far- and i am noticing an increase in girth after each use.. as for length.. my oenis head is stil curved- I do not pump it all the way...

What can you reccomend for ED.. that is natural- I am checking into NO, etc- Horny Goat Weed, ..

HOPEFUL
Title: Re: Estim/smartstim...dr. ho...
Post by: hopeful on October 14, 2006, 09:05:38 AM
What type of unit are you talking about??

Hopeful



Quote from: Rico on October 10, 2006, 06:46:00 PM
Dear forum members and guest:

I'm putting this under here but it could go under a couple of other threads...

I posted before that Dr. Ho massage was always of interest to me, I own one, when I first got my peyronies this is the first thing I thought of....I had much luck with it in fixing other injuries in my body....you can't buy one now, I don't know if the FDA or someone banded it or what, but they can't sell them in the USA....
Title: Veterans step up!!
Post by: Rico on October 16, 2006, 12:25:15 AM
VED veterans....Old Man, Angus and others with experience and knowledge of the VED use with blood thinners....can you please give some of us newbies some insight to the use of a VED with blood thinners....I know there is lots of interest in VED exercise and now the pentox/arginine/viagra program... We know DannyOcean doctor is against the VED and there are articles on not to use VED with blood thinners, is this with the restrictson ring only or does this apply to exercising with the VED also....do we have any experience in this area....Calling all Angles...

Rico
Title: VED & Blood Thinners
Post by: Steve on October 16, 2006, 12:41:32 AM
Rico,

If I'm not mistaken, Aspirin and Vit E (and maybe fish oil too) are blood thinners.  I've been using all three since well before I got Peyronies Disease, and I've had no problems associated with them and my VED (Soma).  I've heard/read that the use of thinners can cause blood to 'leak' through the skin under high vacuums, but this is something that I personally have never seen.

Steve
Title: Vita E
Post by: Kimo on October 16, 2006, 12:53:08 AM
Steve,,,i was on Vita E for the past 6 yrs, 400 to 800 iu a day, and was experiencing a lot of dizzy spells and couldn't figure out why until i read a post by ComeBackid that it was a blood thinner so i stopped using it and my dizzy spells went down , i still have them but not as bad....I stopped taking E about 4 months ago,,i had been taking it for my peyronies since the year 2000, i think maybe i took it too long, this is just my thoughts, can't prove it-but........kimo
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: not9inches on October 16, 2006, 08:50:16 AM
I have to say that this situation is most distressing and has consumed me. Im a 52 yr old healthy male, no injuries to my penis ever, no violent sex acts to cause this. I am going to apologize in advance for my posting, but then again...im not . Afterall, were here to help each other...the medical commuinity sure aint doing Sh#$@T. I am so hoping that posting my particular situation and pics, that somebody on this board will say...hey...thats exactly how i was. And can relate their experience. Again, what is so frustration to me is that I have no hardness that i can feel while flaccid or erect...no pain whatsoever. Hard or soft.  I am able to achieve an erection on my own, but am taking viagra as prescribed as well. And whats more...the two Urlogigist i went to both said to wait n see. I sure as hell would have liked to gotten a sonogram or x-ray....at least Id know whether or not im dealing with scar tissue or plaque.  Again, these pics i have posted are the very same ones i sent to my Urologist ( who asked me to send them)  They do show my erection from almost 2 yrs ago..and as recently as this month.  YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
http://www.geocities.com/peyroniehell/

I have been trying to get used to that pump (VED) because i feel like stretching the area where it is kinked will help eventaully...maybe 6 mos...a year down the road. I just am having trouble getting the nerve to pump it up harder than i can achive on my own. It feels ssoooooo damn strange.

I am also rubbing  on my penis Aloe vera lotion and 99.00 % aloe right out of the bottle , vitamin E and Crisco Extra Virgin Olive oil ( which says by the way....ideal for dressing and marinating)  I alternate these items every other day.  Im also taking Vitamin B complex, Vitamin C, Fish oil pills and some voodoo medicine I bought at GNC called Staminol. This all seems like so much wishful thinking...but when you are desperately try to preserve what you have, you try anything.
Title: Why we pump
Post by: Tim468 on October 16, 2006, 09:53:42 AM
"I just am having trouble getting the nerve to pump it up harder than i can achive on my own."

A brief note before I get to work here.

We may pump to a degree of hardness that is harder than we can get on our own - if we have problems getting hard. But the purpose of the VED is NOT to get harder than we can "get on our own".

Rather, it is to apply a straightening force to the penis by "erecting" it within the confines of a straight tube. The idea - whether or not we are confined within a smaller or larger diameter tube, is to apply a force that goes longitudinally (down the length of the penis), instead of simply filling out to the natural limits of the tunica albuginea (TA). Since the TA will limit the degree to which you can fill out (think of a piece of tape on a balloon), the VED allows you to stretch THAT part of your TA specifically, whereas a "natural erection" does not do that.

I would add two caveats. First, a natural erection DOES help Peyronies Disease in my very strong and not-so-humble opinion. But a VED may help stretch out a constracting placque more than a natural erection.

Secondly, a very strongly worded warning. Although some argue that a gauge is not needed, most pumps that come with a gauge also come with a release valve. A release valve is vital to being able to go up and down easily on the application of a vacuum. I read again today the case report of a guy who damaged his penis using a cheap pump, with constrictor bands applied (but without little tassles that allow you to grab them to take them OFF!!!), and for good peasure he used is after first getting a natural erection!

So, he applied enough force to damage his penis in midshaft, and to tear the root of the crura that helps hold it straight up. He thus developed a Peyronies disease placque (having started out using his cheap device to aid a natural erection) and for good measure, he is now impotent since he developed a "vascular leak".

So, be careful to stick to the protocol, and to not apply too great of forces, and to not be IMPATIENT to get results.

Here is the abstract (I have added bold for emphasis):

Vacuum erection associated impotence and Peyronie's disease.

Hakim LS, Munarriz RM, Kulaksizoglu H, Nehra A, Udelson D, Goldstein I.

Department of Urology, Boston University School of Medicine, Massachusetts, USA.

PURPOSE: Use of a nonmedical, catalogue type vacuum erection device resulted in a case of vacuum induced vasculogenic impotence and Peyronie's disease. MATERIALS AND METHODS: A 66-year-old potent man used a nonmedical vacuum erection device (cylinder plus a hand pump without a pressure-release valve and a doughnut-shaped ring at the base without tension bands) after having achieved a spontaneous rigid erection. The resultant excessive overinflation of the penis was followed by dorsal curvature, diminished rigidity and decreased erectile maintenance. RESULTS: Physical examination revealed a dorsal mid shaft Peyronie's plaque. Nocturnal penile tumescence testing and office injection testing were abnormal and demonstrated partial, short-lived, dorsally curved erections. Dynamic pharmaco-cavernosometry and pharmaco-cavernosography established vasculogenic impotence with site-specific crural (unrelated to the Peyronie's plaque) veno-occlusive dysfunction and dorsal penile curvature. CONCLUSIONS: Vacuum erection devices create pulling forces on the penis. We estimate that the pulling forces in this case were prohibitively high (approximately 29 pounds) [Note - this equals approximately 1,500 mm Hg or "torr]due to absence of a pressure-release valve and to the preexistent erection at vacuum application. These intense pulling forces are hypothesized to have damaged the tunica in the mid shaft (Peyronie's disease) and the crus (veno-occlusive dysfunction), the latter being the site of attachment of the corpora to the ischiopubic ramus and a most likely location for high magnitude pulling forces to exert an abnormal injury effect. The patient underwent a Nesbit plication procedure and presently performs self-injection for satisfactory sexual activity.

Caveat Emptor - Let the Buyer Beware

Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: not9inches on October 16, 2006, 02:03:24 PM
Tim468

You wrote:
Rather, it is to apply a straightening force to the penis by "erecting" it within the confines of a straight tube. The idea - whether or not we are confined within a smaller or larger diameter tube, is to apply a force that goes longitudinally (down the length of the penis), instead of simply filling out to the natural limits of the tunica

If this is the case, can't you just simply stretch your flaccid unit by hand on a daily basis as a therapy? I do follow you on the concept with the smaller tube. But if your only attempting to stretch longitudinally...whats the difference between doing it by hand or the VED?  Will the VED stretch it longer/further?

Title: Re: Jelqing versus VED pressures on penis
Post by: Old Man on October 16, 2006, 05:15:44 PM
not9inches:

Just to add my 2 cents to Dr. Tim's comments about the VED. You asked if jelqing would give the same results as stretching one's penis in a cylinder would not be the same. IMHO, jelqing has its place if done with extreme care and on a mild scale. If done with too much pressure and with added force to cause the head portion to be overfilled with blood, it can and will cause one further damage. There are several guys on the old BTC forum who did over pressurize their penis and caused further damage.

The main objective of using the smaller sized cylinder in VED exercises is to hold the penis is a very confined straight condition and over a period of time, cause the penis to adjust to the added pressure and re-mold itself, etc. If one has hourglass areas, they will be caused to have a greater pressure in the smaller cylinder than if one uses the jelqing exercises which of course has no confined cylinder area.

Note to all:

Again, I must re-iterate that extreme caution must be observed in using any and all VED exercises for Peyronies Disease therapy. It is not necessary to have a pressure gage on any VED device, but ANY VED pump being used, MUST HAVE A QUICK RELEASE VALVE SO THAT THE PRESSURE CAN BE RELEASED INSTANTLY IN THE EVENT OF BEING OVERZEALOUS IN PUMPING.

If one feels more comfortable with having a pressure gage, by all means use one. However, the fact that that the gage is installed on the VED does mean that one cannot overpump. So, bottom line, use your best common sense when usng any and all VEDs for Peyronies Disease therapy. The best rule of thumb is, if it hurts don't do it!

Lastly, if one is totally impotent, ED drugs don't work and you must use the VED for erections, caution again must be exercised not to overpump because when applying the retainers to hold up the erection pressure usually increases at the point of sliding the retainer(s) off the cylinder onto the penis. Any retainer(s) being used must also have "ears" or "tabs" that allow the retainer to be removed at the proper time. Retainer(s) must never be left on longer than 30 minutes at a time. In addition, you must keep the penis lubed well while sliding the retainer(s) off the shaft to prevent pain or damage to the shaft, etc.

Regards to everyone. Old Man
Title: Stretching
Post by: Hawk on October 16, 2006, 05:33:34 PM
If I am not mistaken, not9 was not referring to jelqing but plain longitudinal stretching not unlike the traction devices.  I think he asks an interesting question, "if longitudinal stretching is the goal, why not use traction devices that stretch exclusively in that direction or even manually stretch for the same period and frequency that you would with a VED?
Title: traction vs VED
Post by: Rico on October 16, 2006, 05:46:12 PM
Hawk,

I never felt that the traction or manual was as good as VED....the reason being is that the VED has the use of warm blood also, you have a light touch on the pump to warm up with, plus the st recthing is done in a symmetrical way with the tube, this is a huge difference, you could end up molding your unit by hand into all kinds of shape.....from the very beginning the VED seem so much superior than traction, I wouldn't do traction myself, gravity with no way of shaping, just pulling down...

I put a long post on here about this a little while ago, I don't know what happen to it, cyber space somewhere:).... but I sum up my post as the three cylinder in my opinion for shaping and holding your unit in a symmetrical straight jacket to mold it in conjunction of warm blood and the ease of use with a manual pump....well(now you have to imagine hoisting beers in the air)....BRILLANT!!!!!!!!!   

Rico
Title: Re: Manual stretching/traction devices
Post by: Old Man on October 16, 2006, 08:17:02 PM
Hawk:

Traction devices and manual stretching in any shape, form or fashion will not bring as much blood flow into the erectile chambers as the VED. The vacuum pressure exerted and being held for short periods of time allows at least some oxygen to be dissipated in the erectile tissue.

Manual stretching will do the same, but the extra pressure of the hand around the shaft or head portion of the penis will exert additional stress on that tissue which would not be good. The mild pressures exerted by the VED under controlled conditions has a better cause and effect IMHO.

Anyway, enough on this subject from me.

Old Man
Title: Jelqing vs. VED
Post by: ComeBacKid on October 16, 2006, 10:57:20 PM
For anyone who is even considering jelqing I'm just going to echo Old Man's comments in that the VED is much more effective and safe than jelqing.  I've tried jelqing about 4 years ago for 3 months in a desperate attempt to correct my peyronies at that time. It did virtually nothing and I did end up injuring myself from jelqing to hard, nonetheless I recovered without any permanent damage. I've now been using the VED for over 3 months and have not injured myself once, its been very safe when used with safe and effective pumping pressure.  The VED also gives a much better stretch and filling of the chambers of the penis than jelqing ever gave me.  For anyone even considering jelqing I would recommend against it, it doesn't give a consistent and equal filling of the penile chambers like a VED does.  If one tries the VED they will quickly see it will leave your penis "pumped," even after your done and will give you quality bloodflow.  If one googles jelqing and damage they can find many horror stories, and don't kid yourself if you overpump your penis using a VED you can do serious damage, however safe effective pressure will not do any damage.  Here is a wikipedia link on penis enlargment as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penis_enlargement

If anyone needs any help or is looking into the VED feel free to contact me for support via PM.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: DannyOcean on October 17, 2006, 12:17:48 AM
This is interesting because just last night I was contemplating the connection between the VED and some of the various penile enlargement exercises out there like jelqing.  I wake up today and hit the forums and here you guys are talking about it. :)

I can understanding the reasons for not jelqing or stretching but there is one thing I do want to ask about.  When I was younger (25 or so, I'm 30 now) I did some of the enlargement exercises.  One I remember was the "uli" where you achieve a semi-hard erection and then squeeze your PC muscle which forces more blood into the head of the penis.  Then with one of your hands you grasp the base of the penis, trapping the blood in the penis (in essence you're making a manual cock ring of sorts...).  Anyway, it seems like an effective way of engorging the penis with blood.  I'm just throwing it out there because I'd be curious to see what people thought of whether this was a good thing or not. 

I'm such an over-achiever and the fact that the doc said "no VED" is killing me.  I want to be doing more about this but except for meds, exercise and sleep there isn't much...bummer...
Title: Jelqing- Don't buy free information
Post by: ComeBacKid on October 17, 2006, 05:09:10 AM
DannyOcean,

That technique is basically like jelqing, when you jelq you make the ring and you move your hand up your shaft forcing blood into the head, I've seen no scientific studies on these manual penis enlargement excercises, if you go to the sites especially www.penilefitness.com you can tell just from the testimonials that these people aren't real, you can do serious damage to your penis by doing these methods, I would avoid them period.  When I first started out penilefitness was just in english, now years later they have expanded to include spanish, italian, german, japanese, chinese, russian, and french langauges, it appears they have taken their lies international.  I will say I know for a fact that this site in particular had a message board where you could talk to others, and in fact the owner or owners would go on different screenames and act like they were real people who had done these excercises and made their penises bigger, the whole thing was a scam and still is today.  In fact some of the same owners have different penile enhancement sites claiming to be different companies.  There are some people who believe jelqing actually works however I would never try it again, the bottom line is the information these online sites will SELL you is already available online for free, so theres no need to pay.  Remember if you fall in the 5-7 inch range your in the average category and this should quite easily satisfy your mate if you know what yoru doing  ;)
Title: Fifth week on protocol...
Post by: Rico on October 17, 2006, 01:25:17 PM
I started my fifth week with the VED...as the people know with the three cylinder you go for two weeks with the small then two weeks with the medium tube and then back for a week to the small tube, which I did last night, I had marked the tube on my last pump before putting it away to move to the b cylinder, Put a piece of electric tape on the spot I was at....last night at the end of my session which is ten minutes, five warm up and five to  feel it is right, I past the tape mark, about a 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch gain....now the head of your unit becomes more cone shape in this smaller tube, but a gain is a gain from the first time, so to me it is positive and once again makes sense to me on the going back and forth of different sizes to move the plaque from front to back like a piece of taffy....or pizza dough....I have to give my kudos to the Old Man and Angus, they have been a big help in coaching me on the VED and it would of been very hard to do with out there help....and if Hawk and others wouldn't of put this forum together, I would be taking vit e or potaba and topical verapamil and going backwards instead of forward....God Bless You All!!!

Rico
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: not9inches on October 17, 2006, 10:14:41 PM
Ok guys. I'm going to get serious with the VED. Now...which size tubes do i need to get? I already have a good pump with gauge and quick pressure release.. I measure about 4 and 3/4 around.  Im looking at ordering from these guys.  http://www.bostonpump.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=2                                           ...but the measurements V.S. tube size seem small. any suggestions?

Now..im gonna ask...DOES THIS REALLY WORK>??!!??



Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices - Cylinder sizes
Post by: Old Man on October 17, 2006, 11:15:35 PM
not9inches:

I think that you should look back in the previous posts on this topic by Dr. Tim. He has listed the site where he purchased his cylinders. They are of good quality and he has had great success in building his own VED.

The site has many size cylinders and you can select the ones you need based on your size there.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Angus on October 18, 2006, 12:12:36 AM
Quote from: not9inches on October 17, 2006, 10:14:41 PM
Ok guys. I'm going to get serious with the VED. Now...which size tubes do i need to get?


    Hello not9....
    The tube sizes are sold by diameter or distance across. Since you know your circumference, you can use this formula: To find the diameter - divide the circumference by 3.1416. Convert your 4 3/4 to 4.75 then calculate. Good old Pi comes to the rescue. My calculator indicates you'd want a tube that's 1.5 inches across I.D. (inside diameter), provided you decide to go with the multi-tube protocol. There is a reason that the smallest tube size is almost the same size across as a penis.
    To answer your question... yes, this stuff really does work. It takes a commitment of time and patience, however. We don't have a magic, golden bullet yet that snuffs Peyronies Disease out with the wave of a hand or the gulping of a pill. This is re-modeling therapy. Please send a PM to Old Man if you have more questions. He has the therapy and much advice well organized into an understandable format. He also has extensive experience with the multi-tube devices and protocols. Some of us have quite a bit of knowledge on VED use, but Old Man is the Professor Emeritus upon the subject here. With Honors! This would be time well-spent.
    And... a warm welcome to the board!
    I know this next part should go into the Light Side thread, but..........
   
    In our case, Pi are not square.... Pi are Round!
    Old, bad joke. But I couldn't resist!  ::)

Title: VED Warrenty
Post by: Liam on October 18, 2006, 05:54:03 AM
My VED pump broke.  I sent an email to Augusta Medical to see if it was covered.  I also asked about upgrading my tubes to the Soma Correct.  This is the nice email I received one day later.

QuoteGood Morning!

Your product is registered and you have a life time warranty on the pump and cylinder.

Send the pump only to

Augusta Medical System

1022 Jones Street

Augusta Ga. 30901

Enclose a check or money for $5.00 inside the package with the defective pump for return shipping.

*******On the outside of the package underneath your return address put

xxx xxxxxxxxxx (deleted by Liam)

If this is not on the outside of the package, it will not be accepted.

You can purchase the cylinder inserts that go inside of your standard cylinder for $53.00 each.

Thank you for choosing Augusta Medical System and have a great day!

Shelba


I was impressed with the quick response.

Liam
Title: Re: Encourged with my VED results
Post by: Mister Dillon on October 22, 2006, 06:25:30 PM
Very encouraged with the results of my first month using the new SomaErect.  The device is easy to use and once I got used to it there was no discomfort.  I think they solved the pinching problem with the old unit.

I am excited that I have already made progress in just the first month of use.  I noticed better non aroused hang and fewer turtle like appearances (disappearances).  Now the turtle only seems to come around after exercise.  The best news is that I have seen good improvement in the curvature of my penis.  I started at around 70 degrees and I am now at less the 60 degrees.  ( you can see I had a lot of room for improvement ).

I still have another day before the end of my first month but I will be away from my computer for about 10 days and I wanted to share my good results with anyone thinking about a VED.  It works for me so far.  I will update in another month.  I will be happy to answer any questions but as I said I will be away for 10 days.

Mister Dillon
Title: Congrats!
Post by: Steve on October 22, 2006, 07:08:31 PM
Congrats Mr Dillon,

Here's hoping for an additional 60 degrees of improvement!

Steve
Title: Re: Encouraged with my VED results
Post by: Angus on October 23, 2006, 01:29:48 AM

   
     Mister Dillon, your report is fantastic. We so desperately need guys to report both positive and negative results. And that your results so far are posivite... that's just, as we used to say, super duper!

     

     
Title: Forward movement....
Post by: Rico on October 23, 2006, 05:37:13 PM
Mr. Dillion:

It is always good to see a step ahead, we all know what it is like to go backwards and sideways with this condition.....keep up the good work....Thanks for your post.... Sometimes Hope is all we have and you sharing will make some of the people who hit the wall at two months and put the VED away maybe rethink this, or you using the three cylinder approach also..... I thank the forum and the Old Man and Angus for there help and once again you for sharing....God Bless YOU!

Rico
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: not9inches on October 25, 2006, 11:21:07 PM
This is directed to primarily to "old man" and "ComeBackid" as i feel they are the most qualified to ask. But anyone else that has gone the full 26 week therapy course please add your 2 cents.  I've since gotten the smaller (1 and 1/2) cylinder to begin my stretching exercise. if you could...is there a link to a site or anything that tells you exactly how to proceed with this therapy. Such as how many times a week...how long for each tube size ...etc. Greatly appricaite the info.
Title: Re: Not9inches
Post by: ComeBacKid on October 26, 2006, 07:27:01 AM
Not9inches,

I'm glad to see you pursued the ved therapy since we last talked.  You do the VED every single day, each week you rotate to a new cylinder size.  Every day you do 10 cycles according to the protocol.  One cycle is pumping a full erection and holding it for 5-10 seconds.  Some people hold for longer such as myself now that I'm 15 weeks into the VED program, I'd suggest simply following the instructions in the beginning until you get a feel for the VED, the first week will feel weird and "tight" especially in the A tube. There is one site on the 26 week protocol with some instructions, although its not the most detailed, take a look at it. 

http://www.vacuumtherapy.org/index.html

Click on extras to see the schedule for rotating each cylinder by the week. 
Small- A
Medium- B
Largest- C

Take your time pumping and pump slowly, do a few then stop as the blood filling up your penis lags behind your pumps.  You should never feel any pain while your pumping, if you do release pressure and don't pump up as much.  If you see any red pin size dots on your penis after therapy that means you most likely pumped to hard, or your on a blood thinner and I'd recomend getting off of it if thats possible.  I'm glad you decided to go with the VED, keep us informed on any results you see down the road, we need to do a better job at keeping data on this, we have many people on the VED right now as we speak!

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: not9inches on October 26, 2006, 12:10:44 PM
ComeBackid

can you email me your phone number to call you? I have some specific questiosn to ask about the VED...would be easier than to try to write them..   my email is    peyroniehell@yahoo.com   
Title: VED and Pentox
Post by: ComeBacKid on October 28, 2006, 04:37:00 PM
Is anyone here that is using a VED also on the pentox treatment?  If you are shoot me a PM.

ComeBackid
Title: Traction Results?
Post by: Steve on October 30, 2006, 01:15:34 PM
It seems like quite a while since I've heard any discussion of the traction devices here on the board.  Is anyone still using them and have there been any results?

Inquiring minds want to know ;D

Steve
Title: VED's
Post by: bassman on October 30, 2006, 06:43:00 PM
Hi all,

I am a new member and have had Peyronies Disease for 4 years now. I was very encouraged by what the Old Man and others had to say about using VED's to help in keeping the penis functioning with blood flow and possible remodeling. Since I have not been in a relationship for awhile I am concerned that if you don't use it I'll will lose it? I can still get an erection but I don't very often these days.

What would be the best system for me to purchase and get started with keeping safety in mind since I do not want to injure myself any further?

Bassman

this post moved from the topic "Developmental Treatments"
Title: Bassman
Post by: Liam on October 31, 2006, 05:09:10 AM
Hey, Mr. Bassman.  I want to be a bassman, too.  (Does anyone know the song?) Sorry I had to do that.  Is it like the musical bass or the fish?

Soma Correct is what I am upgrading to.  I think most people are using that.  Augusta Medical Systems make it.

I've been using one since my prostate surgery in July 2005.  No problems.  The first week I over pumped and got a little hickey.  No big deal.

The "protocol"  :::bowing in respect:::  everyone talks about sounds reasonable.  However,
I have just been pumping and holding and releasing several times in a row.  I try to do it nightly.  I have no real baseline with which to compare.  My opinion is I am better off having used it than if I had not.  Once I get the Soma Correct, I will start the protocol.  If nothing else, it will provide a structured format.  But, I doubt the creators had different people use different methods and compare.  Who knows if there is a better way?  This way seems to be successful for many.  So go for it.
Title: Bassman 2
Post by: Steve on October 31, 2006, 09:04:12 AM
Hi Bassman, welcome to the group.

Like Liam said, the Soma Correct is the 'unit of choice' for most of us here, but there are 2 drawbacks (so to speak).
1) Its very pricy > $500 from Augusta Medical!
2) You've got to get a Dr's prescription to purchase it from Augusta!

I've seen some posts in here from some who've bought it from some other suppliers off the internet without the Rx, but the price was still kinda high.  You might want to search the messages for some home-made units that are much less expensive.  I believe that our own Dr Tim has posted some links to find supplies of the individual parts, and if you look way back in the posts (probably over a year ago), I remember someone posting some much more detailed descriptions and photos of some home-made VEDs.

Good luck in your search, and welcome to the group!

Steve
Title: Re: Bassman
Post by: bassman on October 31, 2006, 10:26:04 AM
Did you have to get a prescription from your doctor to purchase ?

Quote from: Liam on October 31, 2006, 05:09:10 AM
Hey, Mr. Bassman.  I want to be a bassman, too.  (Does anyone know the song?) Sorry I had to do that.  Is it like the musical bass or the fish?

Soma Correct is what I am upgrading to.  I think most people are using that.  Augusta Medical Systems make it.

I've been using one since my prostate surgery in July 2005.  No problems.  The first week I over pumped and got a little hickey.  No big deal.

The "protocol"  :::bowing in respect:::  everyone talks about sounds reasonable.  However,
I have just been pumping and holding and releasing several times in a row.  I try to do it nightly.  I have no real baseline with which to compare.  My opinion is I am better off having used it than if I had not.  Once I get the Soma Correct, I will start the protocol.  If nothing else, it will provide a structured format.  But, I doubt the creators had different people use different methods and compare.  Who knows if there is a better way?  This way seems to be successful for many.  So go for it.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: jon on October 31, 2006, 11:05:08 AM
FWIW, many of the more reputable fetish toy sites sell pumps w/ pressure gauges, and cylinders of varying diameter. all of which cost significantly less than the $500 Soma Correct. I can post links later if you all would like, but being as how I am at work right now, I can't surf to those sites.
Title: Re: VED's Prescription
Post by: Old Man on October 31, 2006, 12:11:23 PM
Bassman:

Answered your email earlier, but forgot to mention that the Somaerect does not come with the old Soma Correct 26 week protocol, but it is available on this thread earlier. If you have trouble locating it, I can email a copy to you.

The Somaerect does require a prescription to purchase. It is marketed for ED, but it is used for Peyronies Disease also. Another note, a pressure gage is not required for using VEDs for Peyronies Disease or ED therapy. It is a good safety device, but the general rule of thumb to use a VED is this: if pain or discomfort is experienced while pumping pressure with a VED, stop immediately and use less pressure.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Doctor's Note
Post by: Liam on November 01, 2006, 08:12:30 PM
Yes, the doctor gave me a prescription.  I am not aware if it was necessary to purchase.  It did get my insurance (BC/BS) to pay (80%).   Go to the Augusta Medical and email them.  They have been courteous to me so far.  They have worked with some of the guys on the forum.

Around here, Old Man is the resident expert.  I'm sure he will help you anyway he can.  I see he offered to send you the 26 week protocol.

I also agree with the "rule of thumb".  Good old fashioned common sense is often the best safety device.
Title: Purchasing VED in Europe…
Post by: vincenc on November 04, 2006, 07:58:26 PM
Hi

Does anybody on the forum have any experiences buying VED in Europe? Has anybody from Europe tried to purchase Somaerect from USA? Would the prescription written by a doctor in EU be valid at all? Or is it maybe possible to buy Somaerect in EU also?

Can someone recommend any other VED brands that are maybe more popularized in EU and can also be used for Peyronies Disease? A while ago someone on the forum recommended an internet site (http://www.stockroom.com) where relatively quality cylinders and pumps can be purchased...Of course using an international order one could easily buy VED from them....but would need to pay some extra money for import duties and taxes... Can anybody remember of any similar internet services in EU?

Thank you very much in advance!

Have a nice day!
Title: Ved's in Europe
Post by: Rico on November 04, 2006, 08:20:27 PM
vincec,

I put augusta medical systems(they make the soma) in europe, and vitality medical came up, they carry them plus several others, just google it and put in europe behind it....
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Old Man on November 04, 2006, 09:51:20 PM
vincenc:

The Somaerect is sold in the UK. Email Augusta Medical Systems and ask for their UK representative. Also, you might want to ask Dr. Tim for the sites where he purchased his VED material to make his own VED.

Angus has also made his own VED and would probably assist you should want to go that route.

Old Man
Title: Re: Ved's in Europe
Post by: vincenc on November 05, 2006, 05:29:58 AM
Thanks Rico and Old Man! Will contact them and ask for their representative...I would be very grateful if dr. Tim or Angus can recommend any additional sites...I am not so much interested in building my own VED, but if there would be a chance to buy a quality device with various cylinder types I would probably give it a chance...

Thanks!
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: percival on November 05, 2006, 12:29:16 PM
Hi Vincenc
My urologist recommended a VED from Farnhurst Medical here in the UK - http://www.farnhurst-elite.co.uk
It is a simple single cylinder device but well-made and reliable.
Good luck
Percival
Title: Re: VED's in Europe/ VED choices
Post by: Angus on November 05, 2006, 12:37:18 PM

   Welcome to the board, Vincenc...

      A few thoughts...

      Number one, most here have agreed that staying away from inexpensive sex-toy marketing VED's is a good thing. Cheap plastic tubes and badly designed seals make for a potentially bad experience with these so please don't be temped by the ads. They have cheap rubber seals that will fall apart and the therapy discussed on this thread would be compromised by their lack of quality so lets eliminate "novelty" quality VED's from the choices. A $20 VED's design really doesn't serve our purpose here.
      That would leave 3 basic choices: Buy a medical quality VED as has been discussed here (Soma or other), assemble a VED from purchased quality components as Tim and some others have done, or make one yourself from raw materials obtained locally (which is what I did). A VED assembled from purchased quality components as Tim and others have done is certainly a viable choice for you, or you could purchase a quality medical unit as many others have done. Old Man, Tim and others have a wealth of information here just a click away if you have questions about the potentially confusing choice of tube sizes, pumps and understanding the therapy protocol.
      On the message board home page there is a link to the developing Child Boards which ultimately will be summaries and highlights of the threads in the main board area. Highlights of the VED thread have been put there in a read-only format which would be a good place to start as many of the posts regarding purchasing VED's and components have been listed. This would give you a good overview of the thoughts of members here without having to begin with searching the rather lengthy main thread right away. The VED Highlights contains much condensed information about buying a VED, assembling a VED, and discussion on the sometimes confusing subject of tube sizes. Again, ask questions whenever you want.

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/board,18.0.html
     
Title: Re: VED's in Europe/ VED choices
Post by: vincenc on November 06, 2006, 04:10:47 PM
Hi

Thanks Percival and Angus for your advice!

I agree that cheap plastic VED are not advisable....I am not considering buying something like that...But since I am relatively young (29) and still have rather strong day and night erections, I do hesitate to buy an over 500$ VED.....  Simply because I am still not convinced totally, that erection provoked by VED makes a big difference compared to natural one....  But on the other hand...there are some positive stories on the forum...so why not give it a try....

Thanks!
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on November 06, 2006, 10:38:03 PM
Costs of a "cheaper" VED system:

Tube 1 (2" X 8.5" cylinder) - $72     or       (55)
Hand pump with gauge      - $30     or       (27)
Tube 2 (1.5" X 9")            - $72     or       (55)

Total                                $174   or       ($137!)

Hand Pump:

http://www.scienceartandmore.com/browseproducts/Vacuum-Pump---Hand.HTML

Cylinders - Boston Pump (on sale for $55 right now!):

http://www.bostonpump.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=12

Go for it, I say!

Tim
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Mister Dillon on November 07, 2006, 01:27:12 PM
I was just on the Augusta Medical web site (http://www.augustams.com/)   to purchase some lubricant and I noticed that they have a less expensive version of the SomaErectSTF VED that does not require a doctors prescription.  It sells for $199.
It is called the VitalityOTC

  I don't know if this is new or has been around for awhile but the unit looks exactly like the SomaErect STF except it does not include the small cylinder (A).  I would think that they will sell you the small cylinder  for the list price of  $55.  Then you would have the same Medical grade VED for $254 plus shipping and tax.

I hope this helps.

Mister Dillon
Title: No prescriptson....
Post by: Rico on November 07, 2006, 01:44:30 PM
Mr. Dillion:

That is a good point, I was on there site yesterday and didn't see that, it wasn't listed with the other products, by itself on bottom of page, plus it OTC(over the counter), no prescriptson/no insurance coverage also......with mine I got all the stf(size to fit) bands for ED, which I don't need and another piece to help put on constriction ring.....this looks good Mr.Dillion and if you aren't getting coverage anyway,  it looks like the standand c cylinder, I wonder if the b and c nest together in this tube, one could call and ask, I would suggest to go with all three cylinders, the progression of going to a to c might be too much till one is condition, I know some people also on the forum like the b cylinder for the fullness they get from it and if they had to choose would pick that one and the a cylinder, me I like having all three..... but if they do nest together and you bought that for 199. and 110. for the tubes it would be 309.  I paid 443. with tax so that would be a good savings....

Also you can get lube cheaper at any drug store, ky, Walgreen's has there version of this also cheap....I brought some astro glide per Angus, it really goes a long way, little more to spend and also thinner, but it is good lube, for clean up, I like the Walgreen's brand of ky, much cheaper and as good or better than Augusta, plus no shipping....

Rico..
Title: Re: VED's in Europe/ VED choices
Post by: vincenc on November 07, 2006, 01:56:46 PM
Thank Tim and others...I will check the offers on these sites....

Whishing you a nice day!

Vincenc
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Mister Dillon on November 07, 2006, 02:43:58 PM
Rico

I am not clear what cylinders come with the unit from the pictures but information list the following:


Negative Pressure Chamber
Primary Sizing Adapter
Secondary Sizing Adapter

This could mean it comes with all three cylinders

I have tried the other lubricants but I refer the one that came from Augusta Medical  I sets up better on the seal for me

Thanks

Mister Dillon
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Rico on November 07, 2006, 03:19:31 PM
Mister Dillion,

No it doesn't, you can click on the picture and see what you get or don't get.....you aren't getting as many sizers for ED, or the unit that helps slip it on plus the extra tubes.....

I think maybe the cost may be cheaper because you don't need insurance for it? They might have a mark up if the insurance companies are footing the bill.....what you are getting is like buying a Osborn standard model(jump in Old Man).... my guest since all pumps are 200 hundred dollars that they are the same pump....

I would call someone over there if interested and just tell them you want to build your own somaerect and aren't using your insurance(if this is the case) if your insurance company is kicking in, then your better off going with the somaerect stf......for three hundred and tax....you have a pretty hot system, with a one year warranty...

Rico
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Old Man on November 07, 2006, 03:48:07 PM
Mr. Dillon:

Rico is right, the Vitality model has only one cylinder, usually does not carry a life time warranty, nor does it come with all the "accessories" that Rico mentioned. True, the pump might be the same, but for the best overall therapy, the three cylinder model is the best. Using only one cylinder is somewhat like the old Obson Classic and Esteem manual models. They did produce results, but required a different approach and reqimen for the therapy cycles and times, etc.

If you do not have insurance to cover at least a part of the cost, call the company, tell them you do not have insurance and maybe work out a reduction in price. It has worked for several others and it does not hurt to ask. The Somaerect STF does require a prescription, but the company usually helps with that.

Best to you, Old Man

PS: Dr. Tim's VED that he assembled himself has worked great for him and he has the three cylinders too.
See his post below. I am sure that he would be glad to assist you in any way to make your own VED.

Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: howcanthisbe on November 09, 2006, 03:45:30 PM
I read this on a website, is this the same as jelqing?

"PC Ligament Stretch - Work yourself up into a semi erect (Tumescent) state. Create a ring around the penis with your thumb and middle finger. Starting at the pelvis side of the shaft, slightly tighten the finger ring and draw it out towards the head (glans penis). This will pull the blood towards the head and make it extremely hard and full. Hold this position for 5 to 10 seconds and while holding the ring just before the head pull slowly and gently away from you as if you're lengthening the shaft. Do 20 reps, each rep with a 5 to 10 second hold for 5 sets. (Don't make the ring too tight, and don't yank or tug)! This exercise will not only stretch the PC ligament over time but it also help to break up fibrosis (binding scar type tissue) inside the spongy cavity that prevents it's full engorgement and expansion with blood."

Is this harmful to try? I figure this could be similiar to VED use?

Title: Re: Howcanthisbe
Post by: ComeBacKid on November 09, 2006, 03:54:53 PM
Howcanthisbe,

What your describing is jelqing, this is dangerous, all doctors I know of advise against it.  I injured myself doing it years ago, luckily I recovered.  I'd recomend getting a VED, they are safe and you can control the amount of pressure you want... look into them.  Those hand exercises are scams man, don't be a victim.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: howcanthisbe on November 09, 2006, 05:50:00 PM
Thanks ComeBackid. How is your VED use going? It seems VED use is the most successful thing on this forum.... im gonna get one Janurary.
Title: Re: Howcanthisbe
Post by: DannyOcean on November 12, 2006, 03:46:10 PM
Quote from: pudder135 on November 09, 2006, 03:54:53 PM
Howcanthisbe,

What your describing is jelqing, this is dangerous, all doctors I know of advise against it.  I injured myself doing it years ago, luckily I recovered.  I'd recomend getting a VED, they are safe and you can control the amount of pressure you want... look into them.  Those hand exercises are scams man, don't be a victim.

ComeBackid

I'm not convinced that the manual exercises are something we should write off so quickly.  I've been poking around some other forums where people who do these exercises on a regular basis congregate.  The result (if they are to believed) are pretty astounding.  Of course, it's critically important that these exercises are performed properly (with warm-up, etc.) or injury could definitely result (think of walking into a weight room for the first time and immediately trying to bench 300 lbs. :)).  But if they are performed properly I wonder what the impact could be for people with Peyronies Disease.  After all, many of the exercises are focused on stretching and getting additional blood flow to the penis.  Based on my understanding of the VED, that's pretty much what it does as well.

I know the general consensus here has been *not* to be jelqs, uli, stretches, etc.  However, I think a good discussion around this could be in order.  I think it's highly possible that these exercises, if performed properly, could be beneficial.  At the same time, I don't have any plans to start them until I get a better understanding of how they work, how they compared to the VED and what the pros and cons might be.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on November 12, 2006, 03:48:43 PM
I agree Danny - the issue is that there is little in the way of a concensus on how to do that in a beneficial way.

Tim
Title: Trauma
Post by: Liam on November 12, 2006, 07:58:55 PM
A cut will heal on an average person.  It is a different story for a hemophiliac.

Trauma, whether it be sex related, injection, sports, or jelqing, could initiated the Peyronies Disease process in men who have the "predisposition" (not the best word).

A good case can be made for mechanical stretching.  I would err on the side of caution.  Stretching techniques which place the least stress on the TA seem best. 
Title: Manual Exercises
Post by: Kimo on November 12, 2006, 09:14:24 PM
I believe that a degree of manual exercise does help, as it did for me..When i had my first case of peyronies,,i had a plaque the size of a quarter about an inch and a half back from the head of my penis on the top and left side..I used to massage it when in the shower every morning...In the flacid state i would hold the head of my penis with my right hand and pull it out as far as it would go and then with my left hand/ thumb and 2 for fingers massage it with as much pressure as i could stand, squeeze it like i was pinching it and massage it back and forth....Yes it would hurt a little but eventually all my plaque was gone....

I'm still left with scar tissue and slightly bent up , but at least the plaque is gone.....Now my new onset of plaque is recessed back inside and i can'y really massage it, i don't know how i will work on this one...This time i'm not bent like the first go around,,but only have pain when having intercourse....

Anyways, this is just my experience.........

Question,,,,,,has anyone had any kind of stomach upset taking Pentox?

Thanks,,,,,,,,,,,,,,kimo
Title: Re: Manual Exercises
Post by: DannyOcean on November 12, 2006, 11:07:17 PM
So I'm going to go out on a limb here with this but it seems that the *only* things that have any proven efficacy (even if it's only anecdotal at this point) in terms of Peyronies Disease are things involving exercise (either manual exercise or VED).  There is no one (that I'm aware of...please correct me if I'm wrong) who has said "I was on Pentox/Arginine/Viagra/whatever and now I've been cured."  Yet, we've had a number of people claim that the VED has either helped or greatly improved the condition.  Now, we have Kimo stating that manual exercise alleviated scar tissue initially.  It seems to me that a lot more constructive debate here would probably be a good thing.  It seems to me that a combination of manual exercise + VED might be very effective.  I definitely don't mean this to sound condescending but it seems we endlessly debate meds and supplements on here and haven't really seemed to explore this dimension of Peyronies Disease recovery at all.
Title: Ancient Arabic Technique?
Post by: ComeBacKid on November 13, 2006, 02:17:56 AM
Hey DannyO,

Its good to see some new faces posting in here.  Debate is always good, something we welcome here.  First off I just want to say that there is at least one documented case from Dr. Lue who had a patient on petnox, the guy was calcified, and the clacification vanished after a period of time.  Presently Dr. Lue is doing a study on pentox with his patients, hopefully we will get access to the final results sometime soon.  There have been no documented studies done on the VED that I know of, other than ones done by Augusta Medical Systems(these are not publicly available so we can't confirm they exist).  Currently Dr. Levine is conducting a study with verapamil injections and the VED.  Danny, I know for a fact there are some forums where people are paid to come online and say they did manual exercises and they worked(these are mainly on sites you have to pay to access in case you are secretly doing this).  Remember we are stretching a tunica that is contracted and has plaque, I'd seriously question people on other forums who claim they are doing manual or mechanical techniques on a penis that does not have peyronies disease, I don't believe you can stretch corpus cavernosum tissue.  There are studies that show holding skin in a stretched fashion for a long period of time encourages new cells to grow, I haven't research this in depth, but I don't think any of the manual jelqing techniques are applying constant pressure for hours at a time, so you can rule that out.  I believe the common story that some of these get rich quick scheme websites throw out is that ancient arabics used to jelq to make their penises bigger, they would pass down the technique from father to son over generations.  I'm a traditional American skeptic, until someone shows me lots of evidence I'm not a believer.  I've had 5 people on this forum(where I trust the intregrity of the people here) tell me they regained lost size and got straightening from some form of a VED, this is enough for me to convince me the VED works.  I have not heard this yet about manual exercises, doesn't mean these people aren't out there, just be careful when you view other forums and websites, especially if there is a financial incentive of some kind.

ComeBackid
Title: Stomach Upset and Trauma
Post by: Liam on November 13, 2006, 08:28:37 AM
Kimo,

I had to cut back on the L-arginine because my stomach as getting upset.  I'm holding steady at 3000 mg three times/day.   Pentox has not caused any problems.

How long did your first case of Peyronies Disease last?  Also, how do you differentiate scar tissue from plaque by palpation?  I am not doubting you, just trying to understand.  I am trying to imagine.  If I were able to pick up the plaque in my hand and mash it between my fingers, how would it feel?

Again I want to play the semantics game.  Jelqing is a term that has earned a questionable connotation.  It also promotes some techniques I find a little dangerous.  Maybe using terms like massaging or physical manipulation would be more accurate (unless you are referring specifically to jelqing).

All over this forum you will find men trying to pinpoint the cause of their Peyronies Disease.  Some postulate physical trauma from sexual activity as the origin while others cite sports trauma, medical trauma and a cast of thousands of traumas.  Now we seem to be saying a little trauma (it hurts) may improve the condition.  I'm not saying it is impossible.  I just don't want to be the one to be a test subject.

I do think it is worthy of discussion.  And, if you must proceed, proceed with caution.  Use common sense.
Title: Massage Discussion Move
Post by: Liam on November 13, 2006, 08:34:23 AM
Please post comments on massage or jelqing under Alternative Treatments.

The posts below were an offshoot of VED discussion.  For a detailed discussion lets move over to a more appropriate topic.

Thanks,
Liam
Title: Re: Tim - VEDs drawing back only venous blood
Post by: Hawk on November 13, 2006, 04:27:18 PM
Tim,

I am following up on an exchange on another thread.  I am very interested in your reasoning or evidence for rejecting this statement. 

Below is the quote:


Quote
Quote from: Hawk on November 11, 2006, 10:56:30 AM
This same doctor told me that it has been shown that the VED does absolutely NOTHING to oxygenate the penis because it draws ONLY oxygen depleted venous blood into the penis.


Quote
I think that is pure bunk, and not supported by either common sense of a basic understanding of anatomy. I would have loved to have been a patient hearing that - since it makes no sense.

Tim


Title: Re: Stomach Upset and Trauma
Post by: Kimo on November 13, 2006, 10:00:34 PM
LIAM,,,,I didn't get help until about 5 months into being in a lot of pain,,Twisted and bent like a donut i was really scared....Then i was on Topical Verapamil for 5 months and came back to about 85% straight, am slightly bent up now and can have good sex with the wife...My plaque was the size and thickness of a quarter and very hard and really painful when erect...I also started massaging the plaque when in the shower every morning just to see if it would help, after a few weeks i noticed it was breaking up a little at a time and eventually was mostly gone...To me it now just feels like scar tissue, it's kinda hard to explain but their is no hard lumps like before...The way i can describe it, in the begining it started out like a small pea shape and grew to the size of a quarter and then the Topical began softening it up and breaking it up, disolving and then i started massaging it and over time it was all gone....Now it just kinda feels like a stringy tissue where the plaque once was, enough that it will not let me go back all the way straight.....

When i say massaging, i mean,,,,with my right hand i would pull the head of my penis out as far as i could stetch it in the flacid state and with my thumb and 2 fore fingers on my left hand i would pinch the plaque area and massage it back and forth for a minute or so....I did this everymorning for quite a few months and one day i noticed that my plaque was almost all gone and eventually i didn't have any more pain in that area......

I hope i explained this good enough for you, if you have anymore questions please feel free to ask or e-mail me as my e-mail address is posted ......Kimo       
Quote from: Liam on November 13, 2006, 08:28:37 AM
Kimo,

I had to cut back on the L-arginine because my stomach as getting upset.  I'm holding steady at 3000 mg three times/day.   Pentox has not caused any problems.

How long did your first case of Peyronies Disease last?  Also, how do you differentiate scar tissue from plaque by palpation?  I am not doubting you, just trying to understand.  I am trying to imagine.  If I were able to pick up the plaque in my hand and mash it between my fingers, how would it feel?

Again I want to play the semantics game.  Jelqing is a term that has earned a questionable connotation.  It also promotes some techniques I find a little dangerous.  Maybe using terms like massaging or physical manipulation would be more accurate (unless you are referring specifically to jelqing).

All over this forum you will find men trying to pinpoint the cause of their Peyronies Disease.  Some postulate physical trauma from sexual activity as the origin while others cite sports trauma, medical trauma and a cast of thousands of traumas.  Now we seem to be saying a little trauma (it hurts) may improve the condition.  I'm not saying it is impossible.  I just don't want to be the one to be a test subject.

I do think it is worthy of discussion.  And, if you must proceed, proceed with caution.  Use common sense.
Title: Re: Stomach Upset and Trauma
Post by: DannyOcean on November 14, 2006, 12:21:34 AM
With all due respect Liam, I'm not sure I entirely understand the rationale of moving this over to Alternative Treatments.  In addition to strictly manual exercises there are devices that serve to stretch or simulate jelqing that many people use.  The only difference is that it's a device rather than using one's hands and yet does that mean questions regarding those would go here but manual exercises would not.  I also think a helpful debate would be how the VED operates vs. how exercises like jelqing work.  But it will be hard to have that debate if we have to split it up over two separate forums.

Again, I'll defer to your wisdom on this one but it seems to me at least that "exercise" of any sort whether done with an instrument like the VED or a traction device or done manually should all go in the same category.
Title: Re: Stomach Upset and Trauma
Post by: hopeful on November 14, 2006, 08:19:01 AM
Kimo--- This is Hopeful- are you saying that you had a positive result with Verapamil creme?- I wouldl ike to know how old you are- how long you have had Peyronies Disease, etc--What other protocls are you following- I would like to know- I am 58- have had Peyronies Disease for 14 months now- 35% upward curve at tip of penis- looks like Capt Hook Dick- when I am able to get some kind of errection??- Are you using any other topical cremes- taking supplements, excersise, etc.. Please let me knopw- and who was your doctor???

Hopeful

Quote from: Kimo on November 13, 2006, 10:00:34 PM
LIAM,,,,I didn't get help until about 5 months into being in a lot of pain,,Twisted and bent like a donut i was really scared....Then i was on Topical Verapamil for 5 months and came back to about 85% straight, am slightly bent up now and can have good sex with the wife...
Title: Re: Stomach Upset and Trauma
Post by: Kimo on November 14, 2006, 12:38:39 PM
Hopeful,,yes i had a very positive result with the Topical Verapamil cream..I know that most people don't believe me but it did work for me...I am 61yrs now, i got peyronies with my first dose of viagra,It happened back in Jan of 2000, so it's been 7 yrs now,,it's not the viagra's fault because i remember injuring myself long before when having rough sex, had pulled out and didn't go back in the right way and bent it and it popped, it hurt but a guy dosen't think much about it at the time and just keeps going....When i had my first dose of viagra and it gave me such a rock hard erection i knew something was happening and a few days later i had a small lump the size of a pea and it started becoming very painful from there on .....5 months had passed before i got started using the topical, and then 5 more months  before coming back to about 85% straight......I also was taking a natural vita-E / 800iu a day and then later began doing the massaging of the plaque.....Also i will tell you that i never stopped using the viagra as i do believe it really helped to continually stretch the plaque and i continue to use it.....But now at my age i have cut down on how much i use as i don't need as much ,,,,,I was always using a 100mg and now i use only 50mg....I am still a little bent upwards , but thats ok as it hits the right spot even better,ha......Hope this info helpa ya,,Let me know if i can help any more,,,,,Kimo    PS, hopeful i forgot to mention the URO i went to i believe is now retired as he was a lot older than i am,,,,I live near Spokane , wa....   
Quote from: hopeful on November 14, 2006, 08:19:01 AM
Kimo--- This is Hopeful- are you saying that you had a positive result with Verapamil creme?- I wouldl ike to know how old you are- how long you have had Peyronies Disease, etc--What other protocls are you following- I would like to know- I am 58- have had Peyronies Disease for 14 months now- 35% upward curve at tip of penis- looks like Capt Hook Dick- when I am able to get some kind of errection??- Are you using any other topical cremes- taking supplements, excersise, etc.. Please let me knopw- and who was your doctor???

Hopeful

Quote from: Kimo on November 13, 2006, 10:00:34 PM
LIAM,,,,I didn't get help until about 5 months into being in a lot of pain,,Twisted and bent like a donut i was really scared....Then i was on Topical Verapamil for 5 months and came back to about 85% straight, am slightly bent up now and can have good sex with the wife...
Title: Blood Flow
Post by: Tim468 on November 14, 2006, 10:29:06 PM
Hawk, I wrote extensively about why I think that about the "venous flow with VED" theory before, so will be brief (it w as  a few months ago now).

Blood comes to distal organs via arteries. The penis is not exception. It returns to the heart via veins, in a low pressure system. To prevent backflow, there are valves that keep blolod from flowing backwards. The valves can be overcome or destroyed - hence varicose veins. But usually, this is not the case.

So, if we apply pressure to the penis, the blood stops exiting it for a different reason than an erection. In an erection, as blood flow increases and the corpora swell, a stretch is applied to the TA. The veins exiting the corpora through the TA are thus "pinned" shut because of the unique structure of the TA. This allows the blood to be further trapped in the corpora, and makes it all harder. The orgasm leads to less inflow, and a dilation of the exiting veins, relaxing the tension, and thus allowing the mechanical outflow of blood to occur.

With a VED, instead of increased arterial inflow, there is less outflow as an initial event. The vacuum prevents the blood from leaving the entire penis and flowing towards the heart.There is no reason to believe that the venous return is compromised such that there is backflow into the corpora through the veins. There are even data I have read that demonstrate inflow through the artery during VED application.

Thus, I see no rational reason for making that statement. It is just flat out wrong, IMO. And it is wrong to make assumptions about the oxygen content of that blood unless one measures it. But if we are doing a pump and release protocol as most of us do, then fresh arterial blood, and a loss of "blue blood" (for at least MY penis gets smaller when I let go of the pressure) demonstrates venous outflow.

Tim
Title: Ved and begining treatment...
Post by: Rico on November 14, 2006, 10:35:47 PM
Does anyone know anyone who has started VED treatment several months after trauma to there unit? Old man, I know I asked you on this before, but what has been your experience helping people with peyronies and you also Angus...I know there is confusing information on other sites saying to wait 12 to 18 months and some say early the better.....would say three to four months or once pain subsides??

Rico
Title: Starting VED...
Post by: Steve on November 15, 2006, 12:31:24 AM
Rico,

You asked about starting VED...I started about 12 months after the initial injury that was the start of my Peyronies.  I'd been on TV for 14 weeks, and had just received my 9th VI when I started my VED (a total of 37 weeks after my initial treatment with TV started).  Basically, the VED was my idea based on Old Man's and other's stories here on the forum.  As the injections didn't seem to be doing anything beneficial, I asked my Uro for the Rx for the Soma Correct based on what I'd been reading, and he didn't hesitate to fill out the prescription.  I'm now way past the 12th injection, and after a few re-starts on the 26 week protocol due to heavy bruising from the last injections, I'm up to week 24 of the protocol.

I wish I could say that I've seen an improvement, but so far, I haven't  :(.  I've described my particulars to Old Man, and he was of the opinion that it could take longer than 26 weeks for me, so I'm planning on sticking with the VED for a while.  I'll probably go back to alternating between the cylinders after the offical 26 week point (the last few weeks are only with the largest cylinder).  If (or when ???) I begin to see positive results, you guys will be among the first to hear it.
Title: Re: Tim - Blood Flow
Post by: Hawk on November 15, 2006, 12:39:05 AM
Tim,

I kind of like that explanation and must have missed it if you posted it before, because I would have remembered.

After the doctor's statement to me I thought about it and concluded he must have evidence to say "the VED has been shown not to do anything to oxygenate the penis"".  As I thought about it, I figured that since the arteries were not dilated as during a normal erection, that the blood would flow back through the larger veins but you make several good points. 

In addition, I have a  vacurect  (http://www.vacurect.com/howitworks.htm) VED that is great for ED.  It essentially has a band (more like a flat washer) around the penis before you even begin to pump.  As you begin to expand, the ring would further tend to block the veins as you are still pumping since they are near the surface.  That may even further reduce any chance of venous blood back-flow although your post indicates it is unlikely to be an issue to start with.

Thanks for the reply
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: howcanthisbe on November 17, 2006, 03:25:06 PM
so a VED doesnt increase blood flow to penis? Im confused as I thought VED's increase blood flow to penis. Does it just stretch the skin?
Title: "Bloodflow" with a VED
Post by: Liam on November 17, 2006, 04:30:22 PM
Blood moving into the penis causes rigidity.  The question is whether oxygenated blood (arterial) or oxygen reduced blood (venous) is causing the erection.
Title: Re: VED Update
Post by: Mister Dillon on November 19, 2006, 08:09:10 PM
Here is a second months update on my progress with the VED.  I think those of you who are veterans of this site may has suspected that my first months update was a bit too good to be true.  The biggest problem we have in charting progress is getting good measurements when we are not in a controlled clinical setting.  The measurements we get are very subject to the amount of firmness when we measure the degree of curve.  I have learned a lot about this in the last month trying to get it right.  My improvement last month was not as great as I had believed (I thought that I had improved from 70 degree upward bend to less then 60 degrees).  I now think that in the two months I have had improvement but from what I can measure now, it is only about 5 degrees total.  I am sorry if I misled anyone because it was not intentional, but I feel I need to set the record straight now that I know the truth.  I am still happy with the VED and I know that it is a slow and long process.  I am happy for the improvement I have received and intend to stick with it to the end.

One interesting thing I have discovered, which is not what I expected, is that when I get full firmness using the VED, the degree of curve is only about 45 degrees.  When I measure without the VED and thus not as large or fully erect, I am at about 65 degrees.  I had always thought that the harder you were the more bend you would see on your penis but the opposite seems to be the case, at least for me.  Does that make sense to anyone on this forum?


Mister Dillon
Title: Bits and Pieces of a VED Theory
Post by: Hawk on November 19, 2006, 08:43:23 PM
I apologize for posting something this vague but i am hoping it rings a bell with someone.  I recall over a year ago reading (who knows where) a urologist that was discounting the VED for Peyronies Disease.  As I recall the urologist indicated that the VED can make dents, curves, or loss of girth look improved because they either are , or may, be actually engorging some tissue between the cavernosa and the skin.  In other words a natural erection fills the cavernosa.  A VED erection fills the cavernosa and may gorge capillaries and tissue that are over laying the tunica with blood or fluid that fills in dents, curves, and expands girth.

I must emphasise that I am not advancing this belief.  I may not have even stated it accurately.  I think I know who made the statement but since I am not positive i do not want to attribute it to a specific individual.

While I don't recall the specifics, I do recall that at the time I was left to wondered if the the writer was speculating in order to explain away any perceived improvements from the VED.

I saw one person post that said after pumping up then letting it go part way down that they seem bigger and less deformed with a 3/4 erect VED erection than they do with a rigid natural erection.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on November 19, 2006, 09:52:05 PM
There was a comment in a review of Peyronies Disease by someone - maybe Levine, that stated that "some" claim that the apparent improvements from the VED may be due to edema filling in defects.

Thus, if one developed an edema of the skin over a curve, it would smooth it out. However, I think that close exam would show that the angle was the same. The edema might make a 45 degree piece of angle iron look like a banana. But if you look at the angulation of the distal end and the proximal end, it should still make a 45 degree curve overall.

Another analogy would be a right turn on a street versus a curve. If you start out going North and end up headed East, then you have made a ninety degree turn whether the turn was smooth or sharp. I would like to think that we are smart enough to figure that out, and in general I firmly believe we are. We are also human and make errors. Five degrees is nothing - anyone could measure and disagree over a few degrees.

It is clear that the VED has helped some folks. It is less clear that the protocol is responsible for that, but it is sure a fine starting point.

Tim
Title: Re:Tim
Post by: Hawk on November 19, 2006, 11:27:09 PM
Like you, while I could see the possibility of dents being temporarily filled, or a curve being widened, it is clear the the angle is either improved or it is not.
Title: Curve
Post by: ComeBacKid on November 20, 2006, 12:32:08 PM
I agree with Tim, 5 degrees means nothing.  I've noticed on my own erection in which I have a 45 degree curve when semi erect, which straightens out as it becomes more erect, that some days when semi erect my penis is a solid 45 degree angle, while other times its more like 25 degrees, this makes me wonder if it is getting better, then the next day its back at 45 degrees again. The angle is never consistently the same for me ever.  I think with the VED's the key thing to measure is size.  If you want to measure this by placing a mark on the tube as hawk has suggested this is fine, but I think its best to measure size, hours after you are done pumping.  So far instance you pump in the morning at 10am.  Go take a shower, clean off all the lube, than at night before you are ready to go to bed, measure the flaccid size at least and the erect size if you want.  This will prevent any false readings, where as if you measure right after your done pumping, your penis is artificially inflated and will be bigger. 
Title: Re: Measuring
Post by: Hawk on November 20, 2006, 12:49:35 PM
ComeBackid, I see NO value in measuring flaccid size.  First it raises the question of "How Flaccid?".  Next, wouldn't one erection vary from another based on stimulation, mood, distraction?  All these are affected by your own concentration on a clinical self-exam and even the act of measuring which I never found to be sexually stimulating (well maybe when I was 17).  Finally do you follow the curve or measure in a straight line as the crow flies?  How firmly do you press the end of the tape or ruler against your body? 

Every one of these variables are removed if measured against the inside of the VED during a full comfortable pump.  This will tell you if tissue is stretching or increasing, regardless of what you get either flacid or erect outside of the pump.

From there the task is to find ways to get solid erections wich will utilize the most from your existing size.
Title: Re: Measuring
Post by: Mister Dillon on November 20, 2006, 04:05:00 PM
I do not measure size since I have not noticed much lost size, but I have a slight hour glass effect on the shaft just before the head.  My greatest concern is the large curve that I developed at over 70 degrees before my VED treatment.  Therefore I have always been concerned in measuring any change in the angle of that curve.  I was pleasantly surprised that the angle is about 20 to 25 degrees less when fully erect using the VED.  I take the measurement outside of the VED because at a 40 to 45 degree bend it would hit the side of the tube and give a false measurement.  I use one of the tension rings that come with the Soma for ED to keep the erection full outside of the VED.   I will use this method from now on when I report on my progress in the future.  I think it takes most of the errors out of the measurements and is the closest to the injections used in a clinical setting.   I do not attempt this too many times because I want to be careful not to add further injury to my penis.  The snapping down of the tension ring on the penis concerns me a bit but so far has not done any damage.  I am sure that the curve is much improved and not due to anything about blood filling in the gaps --- It is pointing much more up and out and not towards my stomach when fully erect. 

Mister Dillon
Title: Re: Hawk
Post by: ComeBacKid on November 20, 2006, 06:00:59 PM
I find value in measuring the flaccid size, its a way to measure progress.  I would recomend doing it at the same time of day everytime you do it, and at room tempature, I wear boxers and take them off and measure right away, if you are wearing tighties this could effect your size, so you might want to leave them off for a minute or so.  I mean yeah, don't come in out of the cold and measure, or measure out of the shower.  The proper way to measure(if there is one) is to put the ruler on the top of your penis, I don't push the ruler into my body I put it right were the base starts, although currently it may be easier for me to measure since I'm shaving almost to the skin as I use the ved.  Anytime I do measure I try hard to replicate the same scenario and do it exactly the same way. I wouldn't recomend measuring weekly or even monthly.  I'm now on week 19 of using the VED, I measured before I started and still have not done a follow up measurment, I will when I complete the protocol. 

As far as the curve, this is very difficult to measure for me, cause if I"m semi erect it is 45 degrees give or take 5-10 degrees, and as I become more stimulated and more blood flows in, my penis actually straightens out pretty well.  I believe that most people seem to have a constant bend, whether semi erect or totally erect, I do not have this.  One could easily mistake a curve measurment for + or - 5 degrees easily.

There is no easy way to measure, the key is to be consistent everytime you do so and do the best you can, this is all we can do.  Generally one can tell if their penis is hanging bigger, or if there getting straighter, I know I can.

ComeBackid
Title: Flaccid Measurement
Post by: Hawk on November 20, 2006, 06:11:03 PM
ComeBackid,

I dispute that flaccid measurement reveals one single thing about progress.  Flaccid size is effected by temperature, mood, natural body cycles, whether you have been sitting or standing, the clothes you were wearing, activity, and a dozen other factors.  It changes by the minute.  It does not reveal curve.  It does not relate to erect size in any way.  it simply records how you hang at that moment in time.

the very fact that you say
QuoteI try hard to replicate the same scenario and do it exactly the same way
indicates that it cannot be used as an indicator.  You cannot assure your mood is the same, your body cycles, or many of the other factors.  There is no such thing in reality as a flaccid or erect penis.  There are in fact a million degrees along a continuum from one extreme state to the other.  To think you can catch it at the same place on the continuum is very unrealistic.

if you said you stretched your flaccid penis to its natural limit and measured it while stretched, that would at least reflect some degree of accuracy.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices - new guy here
Post by: JAKE52 on November 20, 2006, 06:22:58 PM
I am brand new to this forum. First, my thanks to the sponsors and my fellow "victims" for sharing information, and thank you to all who read this long first posting and respond. I promise to be brief in the future with my questions and thorough with anything of value I have to share.

I am willing to DO ANYTHING that anyone has had even moderate success with and that had minimal risk for further harm. Thus I am posting this prologue in two subject areas since I am asking two separate questions at the end.

My situation is not much different from most I have read about here and countless other places on the web.  Even though I realize I will never have back my former penis, I am willing to try ANYTHING that ANYONE has had ANY degree of success with.  I have been to seven urologists from coast to coast to coast, six of whom promote themselves as Peyronies Disease specialists, even at major University research hospitals. And I have had no two recommend the same thing (except that MAYBE Colchicine and vitamin E MIGHT help, but there is no proof), other than the prognosis is not good, and a return to original size and function will not happen.  Only one MD (the urologist with the fewest published credentials) urged swift and aggressive treatment (Verapamil AND Intron A injections PLUS Colchicine PLUS vacuum pumping) during the early stages when I just had a painful bend. All the "experts" urged me to wait six months, then another six months.  The waiting has been disastrous.  After one full year of stead high doses of Vitamin E and up to six tabs of Colchicine daily, my once proud 9.5x6 inches, naturally rock hard, stick straight member has been reduced to a Viagra only reduced 3.5-4 hooked (i.e., slightly curve became a 45 degree dented hook) which is now only useful for solitary masturbation. I am now resolute to take aggressive actions and seek forum members advice. 

1) VEDs: Only one urologist recommended use of a VED, and he suggested I not waste money on expensive devise, but rather buy a good vacuum pump at any adult store.  Yet I have read in this forum strong advocates of medically prescribed devices (SOMA and Vacuret mentioned in postings here) and that if prescribed by MDs, medical insurance might cover the expense.  My questions are:
a) Is anyone "convinced" they have had any permanent improvement (other than OldMan)?
b) Has anyone had any problems?  (when I tried a device, my foreskin expanded freakishly to the size of an inflated blowfish and did not get back to normal for several days)
c) Where does one get such prescriptions filled? The local pharmacy?
d) If not covered my medical insurance, is it really worth the expense versus buying a quality device at a book store?

2) Mechanical traction devices: By now I am sure we have all read the many miraculous cures of the Jez-Extender device out of Denmark. But the only success stories I have read are testimonials included in the many "sales pitches" I've read for this expensive device.  Has any forum member here had any personal experience with this device or any similar ones?

THANK YOU for reading this and your response. ANY and ALL input is welcomed and appreciated.
Jake.
Title: Jake52; VED questions
Post by: Angus on November 20, 2006, 06:58:53 PM
Quote from: JAKE52 on November 20, 2006, 06:22:58 PM

1) VEDs: Only one urologist recommended use of a VED, and he suggested I not waste money on expensive devise, but rather buy a good vacuum pump at any adult store.  Yet I have read in this forum strong advocates of medically prescribed devices (SOMA and Vacuret mentioned in postings here) and that if prescribed by MDs, medical insurance might cover the expense.  My questions are:
a) Is anyone "convinced" they have had any permanent improvement (other than OldMan)?
b) Has anyone had any problems?  (when I tried a device, my foreskin expanded freakishly to the size of an inflated blowfish and did not get back to normal for several days)
c) Where does one get such prescriptions filled? The local pharmacy?
d) If not covered my medical insurance, is it really worth the expense versus buying a quality device at a book store?
1) Please ignore the advice you recieved about buying a VED at a bookstore-adult toy store. The seals are inadequate and the wrong size and will not work for the specific therapy described in this thread.

a) I am convinced. My home constructed VED's helped reduce a 45 degree curve to 10 degrees.
b) What you describe sounds like vacuum-induced edema of the foreskin. Too much vacuum and/or holding the vacuum too long will cause this swelling. With the VED, less is more when it comes to vacuum.
c) I made my own VED's in my shop but there are other individuals on the board here who can help. There is also much discussion earlier in this thread about how to fill a VED prescription, and much discussion on VED choices.
d) YES it is worth the expense and trouble. This thread describes how we believe a VED works for us; the bookstore VED's are more or less in the toy category with inadequate seals and sometimes shoddy construction. Trust me when I say all VED's are NOT equal. Resources are listed in this thread where pumps, tubes and materials can be purchased in order to assemble or construct a VED on a budget. There is much advice available from members and this thread, and I'm sure some others will jump in and add their reply to your questions.

   Welcome to the board, Jake52. You've come to the right place!
Title: Re: Hawk
Post by: ComeBacKid on November 20, 2006, 07:16:34 PM
Hawk,

I don't agree with you on this one man.  Yeah the flaccid penis flucuates in size, whether its cold or warm, or whether i just got done running.  But if I'm here sitting at my computer, its always the same size when I get up, I know caused I measured compulsively for 2 months straight during the summer when the disease was taking a toll on me mentally.  Perhaps other people's penises change size more often than mine, I don't know, mine is the same everytime.  You make it sound like there are 1-500 possible sizes for the flaccid penis and that it could be at any one of those 500 points during the day, this is definately not the case for me.  Even doctors have measured size of the flaccid penis effectively in studies, they have not follow this same line of thinking to discredit measuring of the flaccid penis. Currently I can tell from using the ved for 19 weeks just by the feel of when I walk around that my penis is hanging bigger throughout the whole day than it was before.  It feels bigger when I feel it, and I can tell by the feeling in my pants, this is without doing any measuring a very non-exact way to measure progress.  When I get to measuring with a ruler I will get an even more exact update in my opinion.  I guess the real question is what is progress?  To me I lost a lot of size in the flaccid and erect states, but it particularly bothered me in the flaccid state, cause my penis felt so little.  So by gaining the fullness feeling I have gained so far it has equated to great progress for me and completely changed my outlook on life and this disease.  I think you are thinking of progress in turns of the curve, this is not as important to me as size.  My situation seems to be very unique to what is described on here, Tim has said he has a similar "cast" feeling all over his penis like I do. Dr. Mulhall told me hes never see anyone with the symptons I described, and he checks out about 20 people per week with peyronies.  I'm going to continue to pump as I can tell it is helping me, and post a progress report soon with more detailed information.  It will be interesting to see how Dr. Levine tracks progress as part of his ongoing studying using the ved, and if flaccid size is measured or not.

ComeBackid
Title: Re:ComeBackid
Post by: Hawk on November 20, 2006, 07:30:21 PM
Well you hit the nail on the head.  If flaccid size is your goal then I stand corrected.  Measurement in the flaccid state may have some value.  I could not care less how big my flaccid size is (or barely care less).  My concern is the functional state of my penis (size, firmness, shape when erect).

I will bet the farm Dr. Levine will not measure flaccid penis size unless he does so stretched to full natural length.
Title: Re: Hawk
Post by: ComeBacKid on November 20, 2006, 07:45:43 PM
Hawk,

I'd be willing to bet you that Dr. Levine will either measure flaccid size or erect size, or both. I would be shocked if he doesn't track curve reduction AND size, since so many people claim that the VED will help you gain back size, and produce these claims from their own measurements.  We should know the results farily soon, if he is following the 6 month protocol of the soma correct his study should conclude in december.  How long it will take him to publish a report is another question.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: Hawk
Post by: Hawk on November 20, 2006, 07:51:18 PM
Quote from: pudder135 on November 20, 2006, 07:45:43 PM
Hawk,

I'd be willing to bet you that Dr. Levine will either measure flaccid size or erect size, or both.

I don't think anyone could argue with that statement.  Since there is nothing left out unless he does not measure.

If a doctor had the nerve to face me and say "Well we have had some real success in treatment.  Your flaccid size has doubled but your erection is the same."  He had better be ready to duck.
Title: Re: Flaccid versus erect size
Post by: Old Man on November 20, 2006, 07:58:04 PM
Note about penis size:

Guys, IMHO, I could not care less about flaccid size. My main concern is that I have a tool that is straight enough to penetrate and that it is big/long enough to satisfy my partner.

Too much emphasis has been placed on penis size for so long that it seems to have become an obsession with all males. Flaccid size changes according to so many variables, that it seems to me that it would be impossible to make an accurate measurement at any two different times. Even when going for a penile implant, the surgeon uses a mechanical device to make the accurate measurements to insure that the implant size is correct to the best of his ability. He stretches the penis to its fullest length and then develops the right implant size for the job at hand.

So there I have said it for what its worth to anyone who cares!

Old Man
Title: Re: Hawk
Post by: ComeBacKid on November 20, 2006, 09:32:36 PM
Hawk,

As I have previously stated my situation is different than most so I would welcome and cherish a flaccid size gain with no gain in erect size, although i believe the ved will help gain size in both states.

"If a doctor had the nerve to face me and say "Well we have had some real success in treatment.  Your flaccid size has doubled but your erection is the same."  He had better be ready to duck."

Your opinion might change if you were in my shoes, that being your erect size was average, and your flaccid size was below average by a lot, hence just gaining size back in the flaccid state would cheer yup and be considered a success, even if you didn't gain any size back in the erect state.  I realize that a lot of people are facing the deformity(curve) issue, but many of us are battling size loss, I'll take any gains I can get in any state to be honest!!!!!

Note to those who continue to PM me asking me how the ved is working for me, since I"m on week 19, no point in posting a progress report now, with only 7 weeks until I finish the protocol, so I will finish out and then post an update for everyone with a more detailed analysis.

ComeBackid
Title: regarding traction
Post by: wantitstr8 on November 21, 2006, 07:51:34 AM
Jake52-

I can't comment too much about the VED since I have used the Soma very infrequently during the course of my treatment.  I am a patient of Dr. Levine and began treatments in March.  So far I have been through 2 courses of VI, about 6 months of Pentox and Arginine, and have used the Fastsize traction device for about 5 months.  So far, curvature has been reduced from about 45 degrees to about 15 degrees, size has returned (before treatment I was about 7 inches and had shrunk to about 5.5 inches...I have regained about 1 inch since treatment began).  I think the traction has played a significant part of the improvement, but I can't really say to what degree.  Dr. Levine seems to think that the VI in combination with the traction has been an important factor in the improvement.  He currently has multiple patients on the traction protocol and he says the initial reports are promising, but, it will take more time to know for sure.  The traction treatment is tedious and requires a lot of patience and persistence to work, but I am encouraged and that helps me stay motivated to strap on the device and endure the discomfort...hope this helps.

Title: Traction and VEDs
Post by: Tim468 on November 21, 2006, 10:49:23 AM
This report of improvement underscores two things to me.

First, we have a LOT to learn about the role of mechanical stretching on recovery from Peyronies Disease (be it via VED or traction).

Second, we need to pay attention to what is helping and how individual we all are. Again and again, I hear stories of something that works for one guy and does not work for another guy.

the urologists come away from that fact with (or so it seems to me) an attitude of "Nothing works reliably" (and by extension, hints at "why bother at all?").

I personally come away with the thought "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again".

Wantitstraight - way to go!

Personally, I would prefer a better erect penis, and could live with a smaller flaccid one. As long as I can pee, it doesn't seem to matter to me what it is like flaccid. It is what it does erect that matters the most. However, I clearly see a connection between how it acts (turtle effect) when flaccid and progression of my Peyronies Disease - so both are important when it comes, finally, to how my Peyronies Disease is progressing (or not).

Tim
Title: wantitstraight8 victory lap....
Post by: Rico on November 21, 2006, 11:41:48 AM
wantitstraight8 I just want to say, way to go!!!!

I sent you a pm but you can answer here for all to share also.... I have been on the pentox for about a week, it has played hard on my stomach, especially in the afternoon...do you get use to it?  I have been taking the cilias every 48 hrs @10mg..the night I take the cilias I have such strong erections that they wake me, fully hard, not like before, I would have them at more like 80%..... I could have sex with these, but sleep alone:)... the hinge wouldn't be as much of a problem....I had to back off the VED treatment for a week because two weeks ago had sex and wasn't fully erect at first and the buckling bent, so it made me nervous, was a little sore, but as of now I have no new peyronies..... plan to start back on VED.... did Levine suggest to you to take viagra or cilias also, how much pentox are you taking.... did he give you a choice of traction vs VED..... I always felt VED was better, but I have a hour glass and this sways my thinking also....I was taking the ginkgo and supplements and VED and doing good....I thought I would take it to the next step... got on the pentox/cilias/arginine and have been sick for the last week, just upset stomach and haven't been able to work out as good.... I have a tough gut when it comes to eating spicy food ect... but now I'm eating bland to keep it down with the pentox and other than at night with the cilias, my unit looks not so good.... I know over all health plays a big part, and maybe my body needs to get use to this drug, if anyone else has had this problem with pentox, did it go away?
Thank you and God Bless...

Rico
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Blink on November 21, 2006, 12:30:44 PM
Rico, I've been using pentox now for about two weeks, as long as I eat I have no stomach problems. I eat a lot of rice and beans and spicy food( I guess I'm a closet beaner). The spice does not seem to bother my gut any differant with the pentox in there. Right now I'm taking trazadone, pentox, arginine and a multivitamin. I am also using the soma. I have seen some improvement as far as my deformities go. Not much, right now, but some. I am encouraged by the results so far. I will keep on doing what I am doing and report back any significant progress. Keep the Faith...Blink
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Rico on November 21, 2006, 12:50:33 PM
Blink:

How much pentox are you taking? I know you like the trazdone and have used it before, good for blood flow and cheap.... the cialis really kicks in the blood flow at night, like I said, the night I take it 10mg.... I don't know if this makes a lot of difference or not, how much blood, the head and upper area above the plaque really fills out, I would think this is good, before taking this the night time didn't fill out as much... I have taking my large dose of arginine during the afternoon also, this is a time release and you take only once a day, 4000mg..... then taking a snack and pentox also and doing a workout not much later, this might be too much...morning pentox and evening doesn't bother me as much.... but once I get the sour stomach during the day, it effects somewhat the rest of the day.... I know some people only take it twice a day also.... I might opt for this.... my workout is very important to me, especially for my mental state.... I find for my work and lifestyle to workout during my lunch break... I like to work out for a hour and stay and work late.... so I will have to take a step to the left and adjust.... thanks Blink...
Title: Hour Glass and VED use.....
Post by: Rico on November 21, 2006, 04:58:56 PM
Dear forum members and guest:

I'm asking this question to anyone using the VED who has a hour glass problem and if the VED has helped them in anyway or if do to this problem they have done anything different with results.... mine seem to be getting better and then all of sudden after sex and of course a little bending at the hinge, it seemed to go back or where it was or worse....I was filling out the b tube on the soma, now I can see daylight again at the site:(.... I'm wondering if taking the cialis also, for I wake up with these super strong erections, maybe they are for too long of time? I know the hour glass is one of the harder things to fix....any suggestions or experience with this??

Rico
Title: VED's and Waisting
Post by: Steve on November 22, 2006, 12:30:27 PM
Rico,
I wish I could say that the VED has fixed or reduced my waising, but so far, it hasn't.  I first noticed the waisting during my VI's, and subjectively (how do you go about measuring the waisting effect?) it hasn't improved in the 24+ weeks I've been using the VED.  In fact, now that I'm almost to the end of the 26 week protocol, I haven't seen any improvement in angle (my primary concern) either.  When I hit the 'official' 26 week mark, I'll report to all what I've seen.
Title: No action before pumping
Post by: ComeBacKid on November 23, 2006, 10:42:07 PM
Rico,

I have noticed that if i use the ved on the same day I masterbated that my penis hurt when I went to pump for the day( masterbation came first earlier in the day).  I notice that if I have no masterbation in the day and then pump, it feels nice and I get a good stretch.  I think that using the penis to much before pumping is not good.  I can imagine that if you had sex and then pumped that would not be good, even if there was a gap up to 8 hours, to be honest you shouldn't be having anything close to rough sex at all!  I would try to keep sexual conduct/masterbation to a minimum while on the protocol. 

Steve,

Keep pumping to the end and post a detailed analysis on your 26 week treatment, we need to share all this information and see if we can figure some things out, I will be posting an update in a few weeks, I'm currently on week 19.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: NewlyDxd on November 24, 2006, 09:23:47 PM
Hello,

I was dx'd today with Peyronies Disease.  I'm a 23 yo male who went to see the dr after my longtime gf and I decided to start having sex a while ago - she eventually confessed that the shape of my penis (downward curving) sometimes made sex uncomfortable. 

I did a search on Ebay for some VEDs and there are some for about $100, but I can't be sure whether they're legit medical devices or I'm getting scammed - can someone help me out?

Down (literally),
Newlydxd

EDIT:  It's the Encore brand and it's being sold from a medical device store, tho it's "OTC".. it comes with 4 cylinders..
Title: VED for Congenital curve?
Post by: NewlyDxd on November 25, 2006, 12:29:13 PM
If there is no plaque, can I still use a VED to fix my downward curve?
Title: Re: NewlyDxd
Post by: Hawk on November 25, 2006, 12:55:50 PM
Newly, welcome to the forum.  Take a deep breath and unstress.  You have found support to help you through this challange.

If you have Peyronies Disease, and you have developed a downward curve, you do have plaque.  Plaque is scar tissue.  It is what causes a Peyronies Disease curve or bend.  Many men do not have palpable plaque, meaning it is not raised up plaque that you can feel with your fingers. It is never the less plaque. 

Cautious, slow, progressive VED use is appropriate for any Peyronies Disease as long as there is no discomfort during use.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Angus on November 25, 2006, 10:24:10 PM
Quote from: NewlyDxd on November 24, 2006, 09:23:47 PM

"....my longtime gf and I decided to start having sex a while ago - she eventually confessed that the shape of my penis (downward curving) sometimes made sex uncomfortable. 

I did a search on Ebay for some VEDs and there are some for about $100, but I can't be sure whether they're legit medical devices or I'm getting scammed...

EDIT:  It's the Encore brand and it's being sold from a medical device store, tho it's "OTC".. it comes with 4 cylinders"...
Newly, welcome to the board. What Hawk says is true... you may now relax. Please encourage your gf to visit, read and JOIN the For Women Only section of this board. There are amazing, informed women there that have answers and information for her there. She could go there and get some information about solutions. There are solutions to just about every situation.
   I did go to Ebay and look at the Encore units. They appear to be decent enough units... hopefully someone else here knows more about their quality. An electric unit isn't absolutely necessary. You mention that it comes with 4 cylinders... I saw only one cylinder on the units that I looked at. They did, however, come with four sized restrictor rings that are used by men that are unable to sustain an erection for intercourse. These are not used for Peyronies Disease therapy. Maybe you were confusing rings and cylinders. With that being said, multiple cylinder VED's are used by many for Peyronies Disease therapy and there are many posts here on the subject.
   There is much information on the board about VED choices, assembling your own VED from purchased parts, and making your own VED. And, I hope your gf joins the Women Only board, then you two could double team the condition. There is nothing that the two of you can't overcome... but some reading and discussion will have to take place. When the two of you have questions, ask away... you're with an outstanding bunch of people here.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: not9inches on November 28, 2006, 12:30:36 AM
Hey guys...im back. I have to tell you folks who have helped me...that Ive not been using the VED regularly. I guess thats for two reasons. 1)  my unit is still about the same as in the pic i posted...and i have no problem getting/keeping an erection. And sex is not a problem. I can actually grab my unit...squeeze just right and straighen it out some for easier penetration.  2) i tried the small cylinder. What is sooooooo wierd to me is as im pumping...my unit fills the chamber ( thickness) and feels like its squashed. Is this where you should pump just a bit more and begin to stretch outward. I guess i need to talk to one of you guys on the phone. I could explain better what im thinking. Anyway...ive not been doing much VED physical therapy cause im still able to perform. But i thinks i should be doing it.

By the way...the other day while in the shower,....i was stretching my unit in the flacid state...feeling for hardness,....and sure enough...i can feel it now. Its down deep in the core it feels like. Ive been feeling near the surface and thats why i could not feel any hardness.  Ive been squeezing it with my thumb and fore finger to try and soften it.  HHhmmm i'll try anything.
Title: A cylinder doesnt allow for full expansion
Post by: ComeBacKid on November 28, 2006, 02:51:01 AM
Not9inches,

When I first started ou with the soma in May, it felt so weird I put it away for a few months, now I'm on week 20 of the protocol and I look forward to getting home from work, turning on the tube, and pumping for awhile.  Its integrated into my daily schedule.  I'm back in the A cylinder this week, haven't been in it for awhile, my unit doesn't go very far lengthwise in the tube cause it fills it up right away, from what I understand this is ok, you don't want to pump it lengthwise and force it to strech further through pain or anything.  The design was made so that it straightens, not necessarily goes as far lengthwise as what the actual penis could.  Just pump lightly for a few days, after a week you will become accustomed to it.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: A cylinder doesnt allow for full expansion
Post by: hopeful on November 28, 2006, 11:23:18 AM
Hey ComeBackid- any benefit from SOMA?

Let me know  Hopeful!
Quote from: pudder135 on November 28, 2006, 02:51:01 AM
Not9inches,

When I first started ou with the soma in May, it felt so weird I put it away for a few months, now I'm on week 20 of the protocol and I look forward to getting home from work, turning on the tube, and pumping for awhile.  Its integrated into my daily schedule.  I'm back in the A cylinder this week, haven't been in it for awhile, my
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: gibson101 on November 29, 2006, 11:24:04 PM
Greetings

is using the soma only advicable in the stable stage of Peyronies Disease? Im still in the early stage but size decrease is already noticable? Can anyone here give me some kind of guide?Could you doo more damge while still in the innitial stages?

Regards
Title: Re: Hopeful
Post by: ComeBacKid on November 29, 2006, 11:26:19 PM
The short answer is yes some benefit, I will be posting a progress report when I complete the 26 week protocol if I'm able to, otherwise I will only be able to complete up to week 22, I'm going to be going away for a little, but I'll be back, its good to get a break from this mess for sure.  Look for my progress report when I post it under VED's in the future, I will include some measurments and things I notice in detail.  Hopeful if I were you and didn't want to shell out the $$$ for a VED I'd build my own, there seems to be some promise with stretching the tunica.  You can trust me my friend you know I won't blow smoke up your ass like some doctors in florida- no names mentioned.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: Gibson
Post by: Hawk on November 30, 2006, 12:17:55 AM
Quote from: gibson101 on November 29, 2006, 11:24:04 PM
is using the soma only advicable in the stable stage of Peyronies Disease? Im still in the early stage but size decrease is already noticable? Can anyone here give me some kind of guide?Could you doo more damge while still in the innitial stages?

Gibson, the truth is you CAN always do more damage, but the VED is useful in the beginning (acute) stages. 
Angus has performed a priceless service by building highlights of all our key topics so newcomers and the rest of us can get the meat of past discussions on every topic without having to wade through every post.  It is still a work in progress and represents a ton of dedicated work.  I think it will ultimately be the greatest collection of patient information ever available from any source and a huge contribution to the Peyronies Disease community.  That is what we came here to build and the members (real patients) with years of experience, supplied the information.  The VED section is complete. Click here and check it out. https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/board,18.0.html

That section is read only for review of information.  You must come back here for actual discussion.  Keep in mind that the "Just Diagnosed" section reads from the top down, opposite of the rest of the forum.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: gibson101 on November 30, 2006, 02:46:05 AM
Hawk thank you for your response. I know I can not rely fully on what is said here but do you think it is advicable for me to give VED a try. I am unable to get a erection at the moment and I do believe that most of it is due to the fact that my mind is a mess. I have slept about 10 hours in a week and am hardly eating. Began with Vit E and Acetyl L-Carnitine  yeaterday but as everyone seems to say the results are rearly helpfull.

What are the dangers of using VED? I know if you over do it but how will you know what is too much or too little?I didnt feel any pain when i did my damage to myself so how would you know with a VED? Im sorry if some of my questions seem silly. I read over the lik you sent me and obviously for some people it has worked bbut I dont know if theres was as serious as mine.. i.e. hardening of whole penis.

Regards
Title: Re: Gibson -VED's
Post by: Hawk on November 30, 2006, 11:42:27 AM
Gibson,

I feel for you and understand you want fixed and want it now.  You at least want some assurance that the path you set out on will help improve your condition, or at least keep it from getting worse  The truth is, that there is not a legitimate doctor in the world that can promise you that with any treatment even after a full examination.  Remove the examination, and remove the medical expertise, and only a total nut job would assure you it will work.

As you read and study the information here, you will know as much as we do.  As you apply it to your situation, you will know more about your Peyronies Disease than we do.  You must embark on a plan as you have with the Vit E (which I have little confidence in) and the ALC which I have more confidence in.  You need to learn to read your body.  You will know if you are getting better by things like curve, erection, and pain.  If it hurts, don't do it. 

Very often Peyronies Disease is not the result of an injury.  It is a fibrotic condition set off by a cascade of conditions that are only partly understood.  Read the highlights of each topic (at the link I provided).  Pick out what you are willing to invest time in and money on and put together a plan of action for you.  Most agree that prescription pentox, and Viagra, along with over-the-counter arginine shows most promise.  Some as honest, and experienced, and as sincere feel the VED is a better choice. 

These are the tools.  You must choose and tackle your project.

PS: I would be very interested in why you are not sleeping or eating since this will offset much of the good you can do to help yourself psychologically and physically.  Please post about that under our "Psychological" topic.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: NewlyDxd on December 05, 2006, 12:34:07 AM
Hey Guys,
So I visited the website that Tim (?) had posted on where to buy your own cylinders and went ahead and decided to make my own.  It came out to less than $200, which is a lot less than the Soma was gonna cost me.  I'll let you know how I make out.

Newly
Title: Cheap VED
Post by: Liam on December 08, 2006, 12:13:37 AM
Has anyone bought one of the cheap VEDs from Ebay?  How do they work?  If they are not too bad, they might let someone without insurance get started.  Granted, they are not the Rolls Royce of VEDs.  But, they might get you from point "A" to point "B".
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: not9inches on December 08, 2006, 05:06:01 PM
I have a question for anyone. Ive posted here before. Ive wondered if anyone has tried squeezing/massageing
the plaque/scar tissue area of thier unit. sort of roll it between thumb and forfinger...to  soften it. Ive been doing
this as it is a simple/easy thing to do while in the shower. I do thiss because it seems to make sense that
over time it may break it down. Any ideas? Anyone been doing this or tried it? and No....im not pulling or stretching
out my unit.
Title: An Opposite Thought
Post by: Liam on December 08, 2006, 07:25:32 PM
Squeezing may cause trauma which may facilitate the onset of new plaque or scar tissue. 


Or not.  The jury is out on this.  I've heard a case made for each point of view.  Both seem plausible.  Proceed with caution.

Sorry no definitive answer from me.  I'll let Tim and others weigh in.

Liam
Title: Levine and 30 minutes holding....
Post by: Rico on January 05, 2007, 05:09:24 PM
I know some veterans think that 30 minutes holding the ved for two to three times a day seems to be a bit much.... I found this interesting with Levines post on this topic on the apda site.... I think it is good that he is documenting his findings and will follow up with more, a report on the subject along with the pentox ect....

He also said there is no human facts on pentox and peyronies, I found this strange since Lue has written on it with one study with a 51 year old man, but maybe this isn't enough to say there has been a study other than rats....

Rico
Title: Prolonged Stretching
Post by: ComeBacKid on January 05, 2007, 06:44:19 PM
Rico,

I also found Dr. Levines comments about pentox to be strange since there is a study out on it.  I agree with him though on the theory of holding the VED, but I wouldn't do it for 30 minutes and I doubt many would have the patience to do so either.  I'd start out at 5 or 10 mintues and work up to 15 mintues or so.  I'd hold for 15 minutes and then release and left the penis go back down to flaccid state for about 5 mintues, and do this cycle three or four times, thats just me personally.  It is like braces on teeth when you think about it, I've been thinking about that for the past few months actually.  It also sounds LIke Dr. Levine is saying the penis extenders have resulted in increased lenght on his patients who haved used them... but not available study for a few more months. 
Title: VED causing Weaker Erections?
Post by: Liam on January 09, 2007, 07:08:45 PM
Quote from: tdsc on January 09, 2007, 02:47:20 PM
I have heard the VED permanently weakens the erection, so I wouldn't try that.



Where have you heard this?  Since I was prescibed a VED by my urologist, any reliable information would be appreciated.

Liam
Title: Re: VED causing Weaker Erections?
Post by: tdsc on January 10, 2007, 01:29:40 AM
Liam-

I wish I kept the website where I found it.  I remember that it was a doctor, who used the VED twice, under normal pressure.  He remarked that it alters the erectile bodies, and in his case, permamently causing a less rigid erection.  He also said that this was common in others who used the VED.  The only other thing is that I talked to somebody on the biospecifics board who started the VED and he felt his erections were weaker.
Title: Chicken or the Egg
Post by: Liam on January 10, 2007, 07:20:28 AM
QuoteRe: Progression of Peyronie's Disease
« Reply #292 on: Today at 01:29:40 AM » Quote Modify Remove Split Topic 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Liam-

I wish I kept the website where I found it.  I remember that it was a doctor, who used the VED twice, under normal pressure.  He remarked that it alters the erectile bodies, and in his case, permanently causing a less rigid erection.  He also said that this was common in others who used the VED.  The only other thing is that I talked to somebody on the biospecifics board who started the VED and he felt his erections were weaker.

TDSC,

My concern is that the VED is used to "treat" ED or Peyronies Disease or some other dysfunction.  Structural changes are already taking place, at least from Peyronies Disease.  If there weren't, most people wouldn't use it.  Also, having used the VED for over a year now, I find it hard to believe, not impossible, a less rigid erection could be caused by using a VED correctly two times.  It is even harder to believe two time could cause a structural change.

As far as the person on the forum, he may be right.  He started using a VED and his erections were getting weaker.  I would attribute the weaker erections to the condition for which he was using the VED and not the VED itself (correlation vs. causation).

Without condemning, sometimes people "think out loud" on a forum.  You can't always believe what you read.  This is more true for discussions of penis enlargement and the like.

Please understand, while I am questioning the ideas, I am not questioning you.  I had never heard these comments and I'm glad you posted them for discussion.

Thanks

Liam
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on January 10, 2007, 09:52:38 AM
Please remember that there are two published case reports of a VED causing Peyronies Disease. In one case, the man (who did not have ED or any other problem apparently) used extremely high pressures. I think he used pressures that were over 10-20 times the highest acceptable limits of vacuum pressure. I can go (speaking for myself) above the higher recommended pressure limits of 10 mm Hg (on Wikipedia), which is nothing in terms of vacuum, IMO. In the second case, a man had used the VED complication-free for four years before deveoping Peyronies (which seems to argue against causation IMO).

My thinking is that one can expect to see microvascular damage if the vacuum pressure exceeds too far beyond normal blood pressure limits. By "limits" I mean the outer limits of physiological pressures in blood vessels. Thus, if a arterial/capillary/venous system can accomodate upwards of 200/100 blood pressure, I should be able to apply a vacuum pressure of negative 200 mm Hg (which are the units used in measuring BP) without any profound damage.

OTOH, pressure sores can develop in skin from prolonged periods of lying in bed, and those pressures are estimated to be on the order of 30-40 mm Hg pressure, but over a prolonged period of time (ie four hours)!

So I think the likelihood of damage to tissue or structures comes from a combination of TIME and PRESSURE. If one leaves a penile extender on for too long without taking a break to allow for good blood flow to the areas where the lassoo is applied, then damage to the skin there can occur. If extremely high pressures (on the order of 2000 mm Hg) are applied to a vacuum, damage can occur.

The thirty minute rule has come from the ED treatment guidelines as to how long to leave a tourniquet in place for maintaining an erection. After thirty minutes, they recommend releasing the tourniquet and waiting a bit, and then reapplying the VED and tourniquet if more intercourse is desired. That seems reasonable for avoiding vascular damage from a lack of new replenishing blood flow to the normal penis.

In Peyronies disease, there are several different issues. First of all, it is not maintaining an erection for uninterupted sex that is desired. Rather it is to stretch out contracted tissue, and to continue to nourish it to promote healing. All the data on tissue expansion suggest that good enough blood flow is vital to allow for it to gradually stretch out over time. But the data also suggest that a certain TOTAL amount of time of stretching is vital to promoting true changes.

Though I am not sure where in the hell I could fit it in my day, it would probably be better to do a strech for 30 minutes twice daily. Those thiry minutes could be broken down into 2-5 minute bits, with a brief break (ie 10 seconds) to allow for new blood flow to the tissue, followed by a reapplication of the vacuum. I see no reason that the thirty minutes of stretching needs to be continuous (as it does during intercourse) to promote overall changes in tissue shape.

Tim

ps
Here are the links to the case reports of damage done by the VED

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8558654&dopt=Abstract

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=4738585
Title: Mr. Dillion....
Post by: Rico on January 10, 2007, 11:31:32 AM
Mr. Dillion:

Thanks for the update and good news:).... I moved this over to the VED side...

I was wondering on your improvement of 15 Degrees... does this also mean you have gained back lost size and did you have hour glass also and had this improved? 

Once again I'm happy for your success....

Rico
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: bardo on January 10, 2007, 04:03:10 PM
Is there any discussion on these threads about locating VED's at a good price? I am interested in the Soma Correct as it appears to have had a reasonable amount of validation in this forum. I live in the UK so I'm not even sure whether there's a distributer here. I have located it in a few US-supplied suppliers but the price seems to vary considerably. $350 is the cheapest I've seen so far. Is that good? I'm happy to import if that's the best thing to do. Thanks for all the info in these forums - I'm very impressed at how well the vast number of posts have been organised. I wondered whether a thread or threads devoted to sourcing treatments had been considered since the cost of many of them can be quite prohibitive.
Title: Re: Purchase of VEDs in the UK
Post by: Old Man on January 10, 2007, 05:01:25 PM
bardo:

There are sources of the Soma products in the UK. However, I do not have the exact name, location and other particulars. You can contact the manufacturer of the Soma products at their home office location in Augusta, GA, USA. Their web address is: www.augustams.com

There are other sources in the USA that carry the follow on product to the Soma Correct which is the Somaerect STF. The Soma Correct is no longer sold as I understand it.

There have been several guys asking about the Soma products in the UK and Europe, so maybe one them can help you if they read your post.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Mister Dillon on January 10, 2007, 05:29:03 PM
Just to follow up on a discussion that has moved from the Urologists and Other Doctors thread.

I have not seen any improvement in size or hourglass yet but the improvement in degree of bend is keeping me going. (over 15 degrees to date)  I have been using the Spivery Protocol (http://www.vacuumtherapy.org/extras.html) for about 3 months now but perhaps I will increase the number of cycles and hold them a bit longer after reading some of the recent posts here.

Mister Dillon 
Title: Soma Stuff
Post by: Steve on January 10, 2007, 10:41:00 PM
That's great news Mr Dillon!  Unfortunately, it hasn't been the magic bullet for me yet :(  I've been using the Soma for about 30weeks now, with no discernable change in angle or hourglass...bummer.  I'm going to prepare a 'report' for the forum when my work load lightens up some.

Also concerning the Soma, some time back, someone mentioned the re-designed sizing rings that were changed to reduce the pinching that could occur between the ring and tube.  I emailed Augusta asking about those rings, and got a nice voice mail (I was away from my phone) from a representative who said that they're sending out a package with the new rings free of charge.  I remember some of the initial discussions on the forum were that they should make them free for previous purchasers, and it looks like they have.  Thanks Augusta.

Steve
Title: Traction Device
Post by: misterb on January 12, 2007, 04:01:46 AM
Guys, I have a traction device on the way and will begin treatment as soon as it arrives. I'll periodically update you on the progress.
Title: Traction device...
Post by: Rico on January 12, 2007, 12:24:49 PM
misterb:

I know you have been going to Dr. Levine, did he recommend the traction over the VED? Do you have a hour glass also, or just bend and lost of size?

How is the pentox working for you? Did Dr. Levine say how long you should take the pentox for?

Thanks in advance for the information....

Rico
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on January 12, 2007, 02:06:08 PM
Quote from: Mister Dillon on January 10, 2007, 05:29:03 PM
I have not seen any improvement in size or hourglass yet but the improvement in degree of bend is keeping me going. (over 15 degrees to date)

Interesting. I am not sure I have the words to explain how I think this works physiologically, and my attempts at ASCI art are so-so. But... it seems from my personal experience that when a vacuum is applied in a smaller than average tube, that there is a longitudinal traction applied to the penis that exceeds the lateral forces applied to the surface. In keeping with that, I have seen a small improvement of about 5 degrees in the curve, but no change in the dents I have. Also, I note that in the larger cylinder that from how it *feels*, it does not seem like the increased room (which allows for unconstrained expansion in diameter) does not feel as "stretchy" on the dented areas, as the tugging on the end feels when I apply vacuum in the smaller diameter cylinder.

With a lot of lubrication, then, and moderately high vacuum pressures, in the smaller tube there is mostly a lengthening force that is applied (based on how it looks and feels), and it makes sense to me that this would affect the bend the most. In the larger tube, there is more "filling to the sides" pressure available (because there is more room), but it does not feel like it has nearly the amount or quality of force as I feel tugging me lengthwise.

Tim
Title: Traction Device
Post by: misterb on January 12, 2007, 02:13:09 PM
He suggested I try the traction device. I wouldn't go so far as to say he recommends one over the other, I believe he makes a determination based on each individual's set of circumstances as any good physician should. What began as a slight indentation on the left side only has progressed and now I'm slightly indented on both sides. I'm not sure I would call it a true hourglass deformity just yet. I lost only a little size but I am already significantly lacking in that department so even a small loss is a very big deal. I hope the traction device will help me gain it back and then some. I had to stop taking the Pentox, it gave me terrible heartburn even when taken with food.
Title: Pentox and heartburn
Post by: Tim468 on January 12, 2007, 02:19:48 PM
I wonder if one could take perfenidone instead of pentox and get the same benefit. Perfenidone is currently being studied for idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis here (for it's TGF inhibiting qualities) - I wonder if it is possible to get it for Peyronies Disease?

Tim
Title: Re: Soma Correct and Iontophoresis
Post by: jwelw on January 12, 2007, 05:03:47 PM
I am new to all of this, and am considering trying the Soma Correct. I would appreciate it if anyone could help me with the following questions:
1) I entered soma correct on Google and don't get much information on it. Is there a website that explains the details of its use before purchase so I can have a better idea of what it exactly entails? The Augusta site has little information on it that I can find.
2) I spoke with one urologist who maintains that you should do iontophoresis with verapramil before using the Soma to soften the plaque, otherwise it could be harmful. Yet I don't notice anyone on this site mentioning anything about this. It makes sense to me to soften the plaque before stretching. Can anyone give me their thoughts and experience on this matter?
3) Does anyone have any positive experience with iontophoresis? I don't see much mention of it here.

Many thanks for any help.
Title: Lengthwise Stretching
Post by: Steve on January 12, 2007, 08:16:40 PM
Tim,

I've noticed the same 'feeling' when using the smaller cylinders...the stretch is more lengthwise.  I've been through the 26 week protocol, with no change that I can detect/measure in the angle (my biggest concern) or indentations.  Because of this, I've gone to using only the 2 smaller cylinders for a while to concentrate on stretching the length and trying to straighten out some bend.

Steve
Title: Welcome jwelw... re: VED's, iontophoresis questions
Post by: Angus on January 12, 2007, 11:12:43 PM
Quote from: jwelw on January 12, 2007, 05:03:47 PM
I am new to all of this, and am considering trying the Soma Correct. I would appreciate it if anyone could help me with the following questions:
1) I entered soma correct on Google and don't get much information on it. Is there a website that explains the details of its use before purchase so I can have a better idea of what it exactly entails? The Augusta site has little information on it that I can find.
2) I spoke with one urologist who maintains that you should do iontophoresis with verapramil before using the Soma to soften the plaque, otherwise it could be harmful. Yet I don't notice anyone on this site mentioning anything about this. It makes sense to me to soften the plaque before stretching. Can anyone give me their thoughts and experience on this matter?
3) Does anyone have any positive experience with iontophoresis? I don't see much mention of it here.

Many thanks for any help.
Welcome to the board, jwelw. Lots of information is available for you here. If you haven't already done so, check out the Newly Diagnosed section of the board for condensed information for a quick overview.
   There are many men here with experience with the multi-cylinder VED therapy. It is basically the use of small, medium and large size cylinders with a vacuum pump to help stretch and re-model a curved penis. Details of the 26 week protocol can be found at www.vacuumtherapy.org. Many questions, thoughts and ideas concerning this are addressed in the VED thread. The board has a very good "search" function that helps find specific subjects among hundreds of posts. There are members here that have used iontophoresis as well as the VED. Multi-cylinder VED use helped improve my condition. Varied results are reported with VED therapy, with many success stories reported here.
Title: Soma Correct and Iontophoresis
Post by: ComeBacKid on January 14, 2007, 09:15:04 PM
Quote from: jwelw on January 12, 2007, 05:03:47 PM
I am new to all of this, and am considering trying the Soma Correct. I would appreciate it if anyone could help me with the following questions:

2) I spoke with one urologist who maintains that you should do iontophoresis with verapramil before using the Soma to soften the plaque, otherwise it could be harmful. Yet I don't notice anyone on this site mentioning anything about this. It makes sense to me to soften the plaque before stretching. Can anyone give me their thoughts and experience on this matter?

Jwelw, would that doctor be Dr. Carrol from Orlando, Florida?  I was told the same thing by his assistant, although I ignored that adviced and have been stretching on the protocol now for 6 months.  I've gained some size back although only in the flaccid state.  The last 5 weeks I started taking the pentox and noticed an increase in flaccid size, and my erections were also more full. My bend has remained the same and my plaque has not seemed to lessen at all.  The ved clearly increased my flaccid size, whether it was permanent or temporary I do not know since I have not stopped pumping yet.  The pentox clearly increased flaccid size and made my erections more full, I'm plan to continue taking the pentox. Currently I'm still pumping about once every other day or 3 days and have seen results.  I originally tried the iono before starting to pump way back in the summer, I did a treatment everyday for a month and saw no results, I spent well over one thousand dollars for the machine, medicine, and pads.  A few months ago Dr. Carrols office called me and wanted me to buy more iono treatments claiming that if you do the ved without first softening the plaque you can make your condition worse.  I said no thanks and kept pumping anyway, my plaque has definately not gotten worse, thats for sure.  Hope this update helps some.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: bob on January 15, 2007, 08:50:47 AM
On a separate but related topic, is anyone aware if there are smaller-sized inserts of some sort for the Osbon Esteem manual VED? The cylinder seems kind of big. Even the late John Holmes wouldn't have been able to fill its diameter.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: jon on January 15, 2007, 10:27:04 AM
Quote from: bob on January 15, 2007, 08:50:47 AM
On a separate but related topic, is anyone aware if there are smaller-sized inserts of some sort for the Osbon Esteem manual VED? The cylinder seems kind of big. Even the late John Holmes wouldn't have been able to fill its diameter.
Dunno if there are inserts, but Tim has posted links to a couple sites which give you everything you need to make your own pumps at home. One site which sells a vacuum pump w/ a gauge on it, and another which sell multiple sized cylinders with diameters ranging from 1.5" thru 3". Shipping included, for a 1.5" cylinder + the pump, has only cost me ~80USD. The cylinders are about $55 each, so to create a VED system to achieve similar results as the Soma Correct models should run you no more than $200.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on January 15, 2007, 02:37:02 PM
Gee, I dunno.. I found that 3 inch tube sort of confining... Thank God it was a foot long!

Tim  javascript:void(0);
Wink
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices Sizing inserts
Post by: Old Man on January 15, 2007, 02:42:34 PM
Bob:

Look for a PM from me relative a source of sizing inserts for the Osbon Esteem VED.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: bob on January 15, 2007, 04:50:20 PM
Thanks and I do appreciate the humor.

(You were joking, Tim, right? I mean, Peyronies Disease is bad enough...) Speaking of humorous, did you check out the graphics on the site VacuumTherapy.org? On the "Extras" page, which I suppose is all about cylinders, the stock photo they use is of a ... sprocket.

I mean, ouch.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: jwelw on January 16, 2007, 05:42:31 PM
Thanks to Old Man and others who have responded to my questions about Soma and iontophoresis. It's nice to know that there is help and support out there. Yes, it was Dr. Carroll who recommended softening the plaque before using the Soma. From reading through the thread, it doesn't seem that iontophoresis does much, so i will probably forego that. Before trying to buy and use the Soma, which still seems a little daunting to me in terms of time commitment and figuring the whole thing out,  I think I will try the easier things, like enzymes and Vitamin E and dmso. Has anyone had any good results from dmso and serum copper? Again, I appreciate the help, and will get back to you again on this when I try the VED.
Title: Re: Jwelw
Post by: Hawk on January 16, 2007, 09:45:55 PM
Jwelw,

I certainly would not call DMSO less daunting than a VED. 
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: tdsc on January 16, 2007, 10:39:44 PM
jwelw- I read off of a copper peptide skin forum that overuse of copper peptides can turn the copper peptide into a pro-oxidant, with the result sagging, loose skin.  They say that the metal ligands in the copper complex can be damaging, so I would be hesitant to use something like this without further research.
Title: Creating better seal
Post by: NewlyDxd on January 29, 2007, 11:35:17 AM
Hi,

Im having trouble keeping a good "seal" at the base of my penis with my ved... air seems to always get out at the base, so i cant hold the pressure for too long... any suggestions??
Title: VED seal
Post by: Tim468 on January 29, 2007, 02:05:05 PM
I have developed the habit of shaving just a tad. There are a few hairs that seem to grow on the shaft right near the base, and of course that hair that is in the normal distribution. I shave on the upper side of the shaft (facing you as you look down) about 1/4 inch, and for about the same amount on the sides. The "bottom" of the shaft (the balls side, if you will!) has less hair, but I also shave there. I do all of this when I am in the shower, and I do not do it just before using the VED (I will spare you the story of how freaked out I was when I took the pump off and found blood!).

Secondly, we have talked about using good lubricants. Some have used shaving cream for lubrication; I use a standard bedroom lubricant and it works fine. I also sort of prefer multi-tasking, so I will pump in the bathtub, and have found that soaping up works well too (but the bath has to be shallow enout to be above water level when pumping). No matter what you use, a good seal will be better without hairs breaking the seal, and with wet or slick conditions. Finally, if you are trying to use a larger sized cylinder and losing your seal or getting your testes sucked up into the cylinder (ouch), then one can use a cylinder that is larger diameter, but allows for a sort of gasket to be placed on the base of the cylinder - to allow a smaller diameter right there. I am at work, so will have to pass on forwarding the links!!!

Tim
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on January 29, 2007, 02:34:32 PM
Here is a link to an insert (for the Osborn Esteem model), but it shows how one could use the VED with an insert to reduce the diameter right at the opening, make it more comfortable, and reduce leak (not to mention indrawing of skin and other parts).

Tim

http://www.timmmedical.com/cart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=3
Title: Another VED design
Post by: Hawk on January 29, 2007, 03:28:40 PM
For those that are looking for a one cylinder design, there is a system tht is very different.  it is the Vacurect.  http://www.vacurect.com/howitworks.htm

Advantages:
One handed operation once it is in place
Very compact and less obtrusive and awkward to transport or in intimate situations for erections
Far less lubricant required
Retaining ring is in place, comfortably on the penis before you ever begin to pump.  They don't snap on to your penis.
The retaining rings (really more like flat washers) work great just as "cock rings" to help an erection without the VED
10 different sized rings.  The largest can be used almost like a "no-ring system" if you are not exceptionally large
Sells for $200.00

Disadvantage:
No release valve - I don't see this as a problem since most know it is easy to cause a slow or fast leak in an air tight seal.
one cylinder size

Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: JAKE52 on January 30, 2007, 05:49:12 AM
I am very grateful for all of you have made recent posts on the the topic of VEDs. From what I read here, only "Old Man" after many YEARS of therapy feels it has really made an improvement. The rest of us are just hopeful. Mist all the links to the literature I read on all the comepting expensive products have no proven track record in improvinf Peyronies Disease (or at most a single sponsor with no duble-blind study). While I am unconvinced spending $400-$600 for a prescription device will produce better result than the $45 adult store variety, I yield to the advice of all of you here who have seemingly done far more extensive research and have actually tried various devices. I have 30 days before my cureent medical insurance runs out to make a decision. I would greatly appreciate the benefit of your advice of the three products I am considering for which I can get get partial insurance reimbursement.  A) The three cylinder SOMA VED (Bar far the most expensive and most confusing, B) SOMA's one cylinder mode, and C) the OSBORN VED (the least expensive at about $400).  While desparate, I also don't want't to be taken to the cleaners by purchasing another unproven miracle cure.  Your simple "1-2 liner" feedback would be most appreciated.
(For what it's worth, I'm 9.5 inches down to 3.5 inches in length with a 5 inch bash tapering to a 1 inch hourclas left bend with plague in both tubes, and the goal is ANY improvemnet in length, the hourflass, OR the bend)
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on January 30, 2007, 09:48:04 AM
Jake,

Your insurance status may be irrelevant if it will not cover the device. In that case, consider making your own for far less money. Go back through this thread or my old posts to see some links and options that come to less than a third of the Osborn esteem.

Tim
Title: Jake52, VED's, information
Post by: Angus on January 30, 2007, 12:20:31 PM

   Welcome JAKE52. There are more of us who have had huge improvement with VED use, including myself. Lots of VED information is condensed into the Newly Diagnosed section in the VED thread. Information from Old Man, Tim568, myself and others is there and you can find information on a useful protocol, buying cylinders and assembling your own, and you can make a safe, entirely workable VED from tube materials, some caps, a bit of epoxy and a hand pump as I did. A VED can be had for less than $30 if you are handy with a few tools. A bit more and you can assemble purchased tubes and hand pumps. If cost becomes an issue, information is available here to put one together for relatively little cost.
Title: I'm congenital
Post by: NewlyDxd on February 01, 2007, 04:44:18 PM
So it turns out I'm congenital and not Peyronies; I was seen by a urologist today who said given my history and the fact that no mass is palpable, its most likely congenital.  He told me not to use the VED b/c my pathology is most likely anatomical; just thought I'd share.
Title: Why Not?
Post by: Liam on February 02, 2007, 05:49:46 AM
Congenital curve is a piece of tissue that is too short as compared to tissue around it causing a bend (the condensed and simplified version).  If a VED can, theoretically, reshape plaque over time, could it not reshape tissue more easily?

Just a thought.

Liam
Title: Re: I'm congenital
Post by: wasa on February 02, 2007, 06:22:22 AM
NewlyDxd: I would be cautious relying on the diagnose of just one urologist, ofcourse I don't know your history. But I have visited 3 urologists so far and no plaques were found by palpation and by ultrasound. Yet I have a serious upward curve and I have noticed today i already have about 2cm shortening of my erect penis together with smaller girth, this in less then 2 years time.
 
I read somewhere on this board that there was another manifestation of Peyronies Disease where plaques are not found on the usual place, but somewhere else. Could anybody explain this to me, I did read a good scientific article with a lot of patients about diagnosing Peyronies Disease and there they stated that about 90% of Peyronies Disease could be diagnosed with ultrasound, however around 10% (i think even less) showed no signs of Peyronies Disease with palpation or ultrasound. MRI did reveal plaques. The curve was mostly at the base of the penis, which is incidentally the same as I have.
One more question, should Peyronies Disease diminish by taking supplements, etc. , does the lost length and girth of the penis come back? I sure hope so :/

Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: NewlyDxd on February 02, 2007, 12:56:19 PM
Wasa, do you mean that the plaques weren't palpable but were confirmed in your case by ultrasound?  The thing is, I remember my penis being this way for as long as I can remember.. in fact, I remember the movie Clueless, where theres this line that the girl says when talking about sex, something to the effect of "Oh I hate when they're shaped like bananas" and me thinking (I believe I was in elementary school/middle school at the time) Wait they're not all shaped like that?

Liam, to be honest, I'm not sure, because I don't understand how VEDs would not evenly stretch both sides of the penis.  I'm going to try out other urologists and see what they say.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: wasa on February 02, 2007, 02:48:52 PM
Quote from: NewlyDxd on February 02, 2007, 12:56:19 PM
Wasa, do you mean that the plaques weren't palpable but were confirmed in your case by ultrasound?  The thing is, I remember my penis being this way for as long as I can remember.. in fact, I remember the movie Clueless, where theres this line that the girl says when talking about sex, something to the effect of "Oh I hate when they're shaped like bananas" and me thinking (I believe I was in elementary school/middle school at the time) Wait they're not all shaped like that?

Liam, to be honest, I'm not sure, because I don't understand how VEDs would not evenly stretch both sides of the penis.  I'm going to try out other urologists and see what they say.

No, in my case they couldn't find any plaques, and the urologist didn't want to do MRI, because, in his words: "what's the point, there is no cure anyway". If you have a curve as long as you can remember then you probably have congenital curve yes, and not peyronie.
Title: No ultrasound for you!
Post by: ComeBacKid on February 02, 2007, 05:38:33 PM
Wasa,

My doctor refused to do an ultrasound as well, whats the point?  That was his line of thinking, I leaned on him hard to do it and he still wouldn't.  Instead of saying there was no cure he offered me verapamil injections saying some saw some kind of improvment- no data to back him up.  Just checking out or own survery on this forum on tv injections makes one very skeptical. 

ComeBackid
Title: Re: equipment website
Post by: PJ on February 11, 2007, 11:37:54 AM
So as it turns out my insurance does not pay for or even contribute to the cost of 'durable medical equipment' and the VED of choice is a bit on the expensive side for me right now. I did a search for that url that Tim posted for that website that sells stuff to build your own. I really did try even scanning through all the back posts on this thread, but I failed to find it. Can someone please help me out here and repost that url.
Thanks!
PJ
Title: PJ... links, ved's
Post by: Angus on February 11, 2007, 01:15:23 PM

    Tims post with those links is reply #479 in this thread. Replies are numbered sequentially so you can go to previous pages and find it. I made my own out of acrylic and vinyl tubing plus some pvc caps from building supply centers. Mine are a few years old and work just fine. If you want to read about them it's all in reply #126 in this thread. Many can't afford the Soma and others... these two posts provide alternative ways to have VED's. You can assemble one from purchased components or make one from scratch in your shop or on a kitchen table.
    Both posts can also be found in the Newly Diagnosed section Highlights of VED's post.
Title: Re: PJ
Post by: ComeBacKid on February 11, 2007, 03:19:47 PM
PJ,

All my insurance would cover was $146, they claim that is the amount their VED costs in network.  Since I went out of network to purchase the soma correct with the three different cylinders I ended up paying $500 and some.  I tried to explain the three cylinder system, they still rejected it.  I challenged my reimbursment by writing a letter and lost, and than appealed again to my main insurance provider and lost again. Its worth a shot on appeal, you should get some reimbursment for your VED.  My provider told me that Augusta Medical sysems is overcharging by hundreds for their product.  When I told Mike from Augusta Medical Systems this, he claimed they were charging more but lifetime customer support is included, a lifetime warranty, and he said I'm paying for the "research and developement," for the three cylinder system.

ComeBackid
Title: Re: ComeBackid - Research & Development Costs
Post by: Hawk on February 11, 2007, 03:56:29 PM
ComeBackid,

Augusta may have development costs but I think their use of "research" needs some explaining. The VED principle is not rocket science, especially after 400 other manufactures have done it ranging from $20.00 to $600.00.  They have not hired professionals and manned randomized, double-blind studies, so I would laugh when they made the "research" statement.  It is 3 tubes that suck (literally).  Up until recently, it sucked and pinched. 

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is not a good VED, but adding a tube insert, or a testicle rest, or a transistor radio on a VED cannot require a lot of research.  As far as warranty is concerned, we know that buying materials in bulk that this VED costs them no more than $60 to make.  If they totally replaced every VED 5 times through warranty they still made a hefty profit.

I prefer a man to tell me, "We charge $ 600.00 because that is what the market will bear, and we can.  That is much more refreshing than blowing smoke.
Title: Monoply
Post by: ComeBacKid on February 11, 2007, 05:59:07 PM
Hawk,

Don't take my post as a defense of Augusta, I just wanted to post Mike's reply to my question on why their product costed so much, in order to be fair.  Your right the market will bear their pricetag, simply because they are a monoply in selling three cylinder systems.  I think they claimed some studies were going on , that was back in the summer.  Did they ever publish those results.... anyone?

ComeBackid
Title: Re: ComeBackid
Post by: Hawk on February 11, 2007, 07:58:48 PM
ComeBackid,

I took your post as simply informational and added my informational comments.  I consider neither of our posts a defense or an attack, but simply comments. 

There are tests currently going on, but my point is that to my knowledge they are not funded by Augusta.  They may have thrown in some VEDs free of charge or maybe charged full price.  Either way the gave very little or earned a little from those trials.  Thus my point that Augusta has little if any "research" costs. 

Development cost to mold a modified VED that is a bit different than every other companies VED entails some expense.   

We can ask Angus what his research and development costs were and get a close approximation.  ;)
Title: Re: ComeBackid
Post by: Angus on February 12, 2007, 12:07:57 PM
Quote from: Hawk on February 11, 2007, 07:58:48 PM

...We can ask Angus what his research and development costs were and get a close approximation.  ;)


     Oh, um, ahem, let's see, um, 10 minutes reading what the effect of the tube sizes were concerning Peyronies Disease therapy, reading Old Mans posts on VED therapy, 20 minutes finding the correct tube sizes to order, gosh, I figure my R&D oughta be worth a couple grand, anyway!  ;D  :D  ::)  :o  ;D

     Disclaimer: This statement was made in a coffee-induced morning wake-up stupor and should not in any way, shape or form be taken seriously lol.  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D 


         
Title: AnguPump
Post by: ComeBacKid on February 12, 2007, 01:26:22 PM
How does it feel to be CEO of Angus Operations International, the proud maker of the AnguPump :D

I'm still expecting big returns off all that capital I invested for R and D !

ComeBackid
Title: Re: AnguPump
Post by: Angus on February 12, 2007, 06:53:36 PM
Quote from: pudder135 on February 12, 2007, 01:26:22 PM
How does it feel to be CEO of Angus Operations International, the proud maker of the AnguPump :D

I'm still expecting big returns off all that capital I invested for R and D !

ComeBackid

   Hmmm... AnguPump... I like it! Phase 1 Trials to begin in 2035!
Title: Re: Monoply
Post by: hopeful on February 23, 2007, 05:33:24 AM
Hey ComeBackid.. Any success with the pump...

Hopeful,

[
Title: Succees with Pump
Post by: hopeful on February 23, 2007, 05:35:51 AM
Angus..

This is Hopeful.. I am trying to find out what success you have had with the pump, and what other ytratments you are doing..

Thanks,

Quote from: Angus on January 30, 2007, 12:20:31 PM

   Welcome JAKE52. There are more of us who have had huge improvement with VED use, including myself. Lots of VED information is condensed into the Newly Diagnosed section in the VED thread.
Title: general question on VEDs
Post by: meanmrmustard on February 23, 2007, 12:33:51 PM
First I'd like to say that I'm sorry if I'm asking questions that have been answered before, but after reading the 'Highlights of VED's and Other Devices'-thread and being amazed by the positive Testimonials of VED-users, i can't help but wonder why VEDs aren't more popular? is it because of their cost? none of the 10 doctors i've been to has told me anything about VEDs. is it the danger of harm and damage due to abuse?

plus, does anyone know a mailorder in europe that has the oston esteem? (or is there another VED that you'd recommed for someone that suffers Peyronies Disease and ED?)

thanks
Title: Re: Hopeful... VED question
Post by: Angus on February 27, 2007, 01:34:10 PM


   Hi Hopeful... I used my self-constructed VED's over a period of about 2 years. I have one with a large tube and one with a small tube and used the therapy that alternates use of these tubes. My curve was reduced from 45 degrees to less than the present 10 degrees. I consider this significant, and personally I consider a curve of 10 degrees almost insignificant when it comes to sexual function as there are men with congenital curves of more than this who have no problem with sexual function. I use the VED's occasionally now as a maintenance program and I believe this helps maintain my present relative straightness and blood flow. The only supplement I used during that time was 2 or 3 L-Argenine capsules per day. I took no other meds or supplements during that time. I now take 1 L-Argenine cap per day for maintenance.
     I would like to add that I believe that VED/Peyronies Disease therapy is a rather long term therapy that should be applied daily for at least one year or much more before marked improvement can be realized. I conclude this from my own experience, but actual hard facts about VED therapy results are sketchy and sparse other than what can be found on this forum. More hard facts are needed; there may be men who saw improvement after shorter time periods and men who had to use it for a longer time period.
    The VED is a mechanical device and I believe this causes hesitation in some men who consider using one. For men who previously have not searched Peyronies Disease information, erection pumps were only seen in sex toy stores or on the internet in boxes with lewd images on the package of men using them as an enlargement device, along with paragraphs describing how much more desireable the man who used this device would be to a prospective partner. The cheap plastic pumps from these places in no way compare to the devices used by men on this forum. The sex toy VED has gone through decades of being the subject of jokes, embarrassment and an item to be hidden to avoid the shame of it's discovery by a partner or household member, and this stigma must be ignored by the prospective user of a medical grade VED.
    I hope the additional rant didn't cloud my answer to your question. In summary, yes, the VED did work for me.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Rzz on March 08, 2007, 09:11:30 PM
Hello Everybody,
As many of you know, I've been around these forums for quite sometime. Due to another writing commitment I've been an infrequent poster on this forum. I'm now ready to start being a regular contributor again. I already know many of you, but look forward to getting to know the ones I don't.

As I stated, I've done quite a bit of research on Peyronies Disease and tons of research on DMSO and the Thacker's Formula. However, one aspect of Peyronies Disease treatment I've done very little research on is the use of the VED. As of recent, many doctors have become very interested in the use of the VED and are starting to prescribe it to their Peyronies Disease patients. This includes some highly respected doctors who are experts in Peyronies Disease. I've decided that I might would like to give this option a try. Possibly in conjunction with DMSO. However, as I stated I know very little of the VED and would really appreciate some advice from this forum. I have read all the past post on the VED, but I'm still a little confused. Here is a brief summary of my situation. 

1) Although I had some curvature at the beginning of my Peyronies Disease, it was not serious enough to prevent intercourse. So curvature is not the big problem.
2) As the years went by with my Peyronies Disease, erectile dysfunction became more and more of a problem. So my main problem is erectile dysfunction. Although I do believe Peyronies Disease is the main source of my dysfunction, I do not believe it is the sole problem. As time went by and embarrassment and anxiety increased, I believe psychology started to play a big part of my erectile dysfunction as well.
3) I've lost roughly a 1 1/2" in length and about 3/4" in circumference. 

Here are some of my questions:

1) I've heard of the different types of VEDs like The Esteem, The Classic, The Soma Correct and others. How do I determine the best for me?
2) Is it best to get a prescription type VED or does it matter?
3) I've been to 6 different urologists over the years. However, I'm not sure my main urologist prescribes or even believes in the use of the VED. We've never discussed it. If he doesn't, is there a list somewhere of urologist who do use the VED for Peyronies Disease treatment?
4) I'm "VERY" concerned that the stretching the VED is supposed to do the scar tissue or plaque; could also cause some tearing to the tissue surrounding the plaque and then latter just create more scar tissue to deal with. I'm I being rational here or just paranoid?

I do have other questions about the VED that I will present later, but I thought to get a better understanding I would just post my questions 2-3 at a time.

Also, I have had some personal emails in my box, but due to my schedule I was not able to get around to answering them and I apologize for that. If anybody would like to ask them again, I assure you I will respond.

Well, that's about it for now. I would greatly appreciate any information or advice. If I can help anybody with questions about Peyronies Disease or the use of DMSO and Thacker's Formula, please do not hesitate to ask.

Rzz
Title: Rzz Questions
Post by: Steve on March 08, 2007, 10:48:29 PM
Hi Rzz,

I don't know if I remember you, but welcome back to the fold.

To address some of your questions (in my own limited capacity):
1. There seems to be a general concensus that a multi-sized VED has the best chance of alliviating the curvature/plaque.  By switching back and forth between the different sizes, you change the type/amount of stretch applied to the plaque.
2. If (when) you decide to go with a VED, either go with a prescription unit (VERY expensive), or use some of the plans/suggestions here on the board to build your own.  Don't go with the 'sex toy' variety as they are of low quality and don't hold up to extended use (which the VED therapy does take an extended period of time).
3. Your guess is as good as mine...
4. Yes, over application of vacuum can cause more damage!  It's very important to start slowly to get a feel for how much pumping is needed to get a stretch without tearing.  There's really no way of explaining this, you've got to feel it for your self.  Just remember...if it starts to hurt, you're pumping too much!  Relieve the pressure, and don't pump as much in the future!

Good luck with whatever you end up trying.

Steve
Title: Re: Hopeful... VED question
Post by: hopeful on March 09, 2007, 07:47:52 AM
Hi Angus,

Sorry I missed your answer... That my friend is amazing.. I am at 35-40%.. however, have loss of length and girth... I am 59, what about you- did you have loss of length and girth>- and did you gain it back,,, at 10%,, I would be the happies man in the world!- Also, what brand or strength L-Argeninie did you take?-  Thanks- Hopeful

Quote from: Angus on February 27, 2007, 01:34:10 PM


   Hi Hopeful... I used my self-constructed VED's over a period of about 2 years. I have one with a large tube and one with a small tube and used the therapy that alternates use of these tubes. My curve was reduced from 45 degrees to less than the present 10 degrees.
Title: Angus question...
Post by: Steve on March 09, 2007, 09:53:12 AM
Angus,

A quick question on your results...you say that you used your VED for about 2 years.  How long before you noticed any results?  I've been using mine for almost a year now, and so far, have seen no change at all.  :(

Steve
Title: Re: Questions about choosing VED and/or protocol
Post by: Old Man on March 09, 2007, 10:38:47 AM
RZZ:

First, let me say that Steve has given you some very good advice about the right choice for a VED. There are many and varied degrees of models and sizes of VEDs, so as he said, be careful in your choice if you choose to try one. There are several guys on this forum that have made their own with great success: to mention a couple, Dr. Tim and Angus. Both have posted elsewhere on this forum how they made their units, so check out the page on highlights of VEDs as well as the topic dealing with VEDs and other devices.

I have used three different models of the medical quality VEDs: Osbon Classic Manual, Osbon Esteem Manual and lastly the SomaCorrect manual. The Soma Correct unit was taken off the market due to some difficulty with the FDA about its use for Peyronies Disease and the fact that there was a problem with a "pinching effect" while using it. It was replaced by the SomaErect models which eliminated the pinching problem, but it was not approved for Peyronies Disease by FDA. Rather, it is recommended for ED only now. However, it can be used for Peyronies Disease using the protocol that came with the Soma Correct. That regimen of exercises is posted elsewhere on this forum by a link to a trial that is ongoing in Birmingham, AL. It has proved successful for several guys on this forum. (I have the protocol stored on my data base and can furnish it to any and all who might need a copy.)

As Steve pointed out, overpumping is a common problem with VED usage. The best advice is that if there is any pain accompanied with VED use, stop immediately, let any problem if any heal, and start over with an exercise routine using less pressure.

There are several different approaches to an exercise routine, but the three cylinder model VED seems to be the better system. In my case, I started off with the old Osbon Classic manual model, moved on to the Osbon Esteem manual and finally I am currently using the Soma Correct manual model using the updated sizing insert from Augusta Medical. It has worked extremely well in providing me with the necessary correction for my ED problem after prostate surgery and for maintenance of Peyronies Disease symptoms.

The SomaErect model can be used successfuly for both Peyronies Disease and ED. For ED, you simply gain an erection with the VED and use the retainer(s) to maintain the erection long enough for sexual activity. One must experiment with the different sizes of retainers to get the right one, but only takes a little practice to determine which one(s) work best.

Hope the above gives you some insight on VED usage. Feel free to ask any and all questions you have about VED usage. I am sure that there guys on the forum, as well as myself, who have tried the VED and can give you their experience about its use.

Best to you, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: kbmw on March 09, 2007, 02:40:49 PM
Hey Old Man,
I see you are still at it. I haven't been here for quite awhile but I trust it is still pretty much the same old thing in Bentville.

I moved and started with a new GP who wanted to know if I wanted a referral to a Urologist? No thank-you.

I hope all is well with you.
Title: Re: Hopeful... VED question
Post by: Angus on March 09, 2007, 06:52:56 PM
Quote from: hopeful on March 09, 2007, 07:47:52 AM
Hi Angus,

Sorry I missed your answer... That my friend is amazing.. I am at 35-40%.. however, have loss of length and girth... I am 59, what about you- did you have loss of length and girth>- and did you gain it back,,, at 10%,, I would be the happies man in the world!- Also, what brand or strength L-Argeninie did you take?-  Thanks- Hopeful

Quote from: Angus on February 27, 2007, 01:34:10 PM


   Hi Hopeful... I used my self-constructed VED's over a period of about 2 years. I have one with a large tube and one with a small tube and used the therapy that alternates use of these tubes. My curve was reduced from 45 degrees to less than the present 10 degrees.




    I didn't have significant length loss, except for what appeared to be loss when looking at a curved object (hold index finger out straight, then curl it into a 45 degree "hook"... it appears shorter, but from base to tip measured along it's top or ridge, is not). There was no girth loss except in the middle where the waisting is. The VED didn't fix that completely; there is some indentation still there but is insignificant in my book. The use of the VED does appear to excercise the blood vessels, and subsequent non-VED erections will appear larger, but no larger than you were before Peyronies Disease (I am not suggesting the VED will enlarge a penis beyond what you have naturally... it will not). The L Argenine I take is the least expensive Wal Mart brand. I still use the VED every now and then for maintenance and blood flow exercise. I do not have ED (giving thanks every day for that). If you give the VED a shot, make the commitment of time and use it daily for as long as it takes. I think our penises are a little tougher than we give them credit for  ;D and can't be stretched and re-molded in a few weeks or months.
Title: Re: Angus question (from Steve)...
Post by: Angus on March 09, 2007, 07:32:16 PM
Quote from: Steve on March 09, 2007, 09:53:12 AM
Angus,

A quick question on your results...you say that you used your VED for about 2 years.  How long before you noticed any results?  I've been using mine for almost a year now, and so far, have seen no change at all.  :(

Steve



    Hi Steve... it was over a year before any improvement was seen, and another year tacked onto that before my present state was achieved. This was with daily use with many cycles per use. I don't have contact with any VED users other than those on this board, and we have very few instances of organized documentation on VED use for Peyronies Disease and timelines of how long therapy took to produce visible results. We also don't have a solid data base of how many cycles or repetitions of VED erections men are doing before ending the therapy for that day. Re-shaping a penis is no small order and, in my humble opinion, VED therapy should be applied with a tenacious attitude and a resolve to do the therapy daily no matter how long it takes to see results. Personally I would encourage you to continue the therapy on a daily basis, and assume that you are about to barely complete the first half of the therapy to completion. I would love to soon hear you say that in just over a year you had results, but that may not be the case in your situation. Small scar areas may re-shape in mere months; larger scars may take 2 or more years; at this point no one knows. We are in a manner of speaking the pioneers at fixing Peyronies Disease, along with some very noteworthy urologists. Until we get more data on VED use and results, I can only encourage you to continue the therapy and try not to get discouraged. With low pressure (vacuum) and many cycles daily you certainly won't do any harm, and you may have results soon. I am a believer in the multi-cylinder therapy and that the elongation from the smallest cylinder is important in the therapy. These are just my personal observations and thoughts about my own experience.
Title: Re: Hopeful... VED question
Post by: hopeful on March 11, 2007, 12:53:02 PM
Thank you- I will definitely look into getting one- with the cylinders.


Title: I think that VED Stretching is Bad
Post by: tdsc on March 13, 2007, 02:23:25 PM
To George: 

How can you possibly think that stretching the penis is safe through vacuum pump exercises?  I just don't see the evidence.  One thing that I tried briefly but stopped because I still had inflammation in the penis was a combination of grape seed extract (I used a CVS brand that also had green tea in it, "grape seed plus") and vitamin E.  The penis was red and flushed like there had been good blood flow through it some time after erections and it permanently straightened a probably 10-20 degree curved penis after a few weeks and I didn't use it every day, but most of the time.  I stopped because I thought it was aggravating the area of my injury (I could feel during erections that it was stretching it, but it was a good feeling and not really painful).  Secondly I would not use it for weeks on end.  I would use it for a few days, stop, then start again because it does feel like you've had a lot of erections.  If you have tendonitis anywhere in the body, you don't want to be using it either because it will inflame it and aggravate it.  However, with the grape seed extract and vitamin E, I'm not kidding you the erections were almost doubled in girth and some in length (once stopped the erections returned to normal size), which possibly could be hazardous however if you are engaged in sexual relations due to the tighter tunica.
Title: Re: TDSK - VED Stretching
Post by: Tim468 on March 13, 2007, 02:36:40 PM
tdsc,

I am not sure why you targetted George for your question 0- there are many of us who not only think that it is safe to stretch the penis with the VED, but in fact do it regularly (to my knowledge, George does not).

If one stretches it to a tension that is approximartely that of a spontaneous erection, or perhaps slightly greater - then how shall it hurt? The obvious answer that worried me was that if things were somehow "bad" (ie inflamed, or damaged) then such stretching might be best. Similar to "rest".

But if we look at stretching in a dfferent way, like stretching a damaged joint (which is not damaged by stretching but by use), then maybe it could make more sense to you. Also, we might cause damage at the junction of the placque and the "normal" Tunica. I have raised such concerns myself.

But in the end, what cinched it for me is this: the Tunica when suffering from Peyronies develops contractile elements that tighten up. This means that an unstretched penis can become worse, IMHO. In fact some of the surgical literature is now advocating the use of the VED following surgery to prevent a reoccurance of contractures/scarring.
I believe that some of the"reoccurance" of Peyronies Disease following surgeries is from the avoidance of erections for a period of time. Those that report better outcomes seem to more often promote early return of erections (through meds or VEDs).

Tim
Title: Re: Tim - VED
Post by: tdsc on March 13, 2007, 03:01:27 PM
I wasn't targeting anyone.  George was saying the VED is legitimate, whereas I'm of a different opinion.  The ved pulls blood into the penis artificially.  How do you know that it's not pulling on things inside that may mess things up?  I saw on a website a doctor who used the thing because he wanted to just experiment with it (he had not injury) just twice on himself, and he said it permanently weakened his erection, and that was a common thing he knew about others.   If the penis is injured a rock hard erection is probably not the best thing.  During periods when the injury was aggravated my nightly erections were not as strong for a few weeks, but they returned to normal after cessation of whatever was aggravating it.
I found the website about the doctor: http://www.herballove.com/article.asp?Art=66
Title: Re: TDSK - Snake oil Sites
Post by: Liam on March 14, 2007, 06:53:47 AM
This Dr. Herbal Love condemns the VED then promotes his "PeniSaver" (only $76.00). http://www.herballoveshop.com/product.asp?PID=1045

I would hardly call that a credible site.
Title: Re: TDSK - Snake Oil Sites
Post by: Hawk on March 14, 2007, 07:47:55 AM
tdsc,

I am glad you mentioned this site because it explains a lot.  Prior to this I was struggling to resolve the basis for some of your statements.   No serious student of personal health, Peyronies Disease, nutrition, or physiology, could take this site seriously.  I recommend that you educate yourself on sites with some degree of professionalism or on sites that are not trying to make money off of confusing you about the issues.  In fact, while I will leave the link information intact, I am disabling the link so as not to promote this site in Google rankings.
Title: Blocked from that "Credible" Site
Post by: Tim468 on March 14, 2007, 11:19:10 AM
Darn - I tried to access that "Credible" site and it was blocked by my work-place filter as an "adult site".

::sigh::

Tim
Title: Re: Tim - Blocked
Post by: Hawk on March 14, 2007, 11:26:54 AM
Tim,

I receive some reassurance that hospital personnel are not using information from that site.  ;)
Title: Re: Hawk - Reason for my ideas
Post by: tdsc on March 14, 2007, 11:35:13 AM
Hawk-

The basis of my statements are in personal experience and other sites.  My memory leads me to believe that I accessed a legitimate site in the past where a doctor used the ved on himself, and he had knowledge of others who had a weakened erection from the device.  I was searching for it yesterday and found that one, and didn't really read about the bogus penissaver until after and saw how ridiculous it was, although I was a bit hasty in posting it I'll admit.  But the ved  has dangers just based in common sense, as I'm sure you're aware and have posted.  Grape seed and vitamin E did produce a much larger erection.  My  idea on Vitamin E is that it makes skin and such more elastic, while the grape seed has some effect of increasing pressure or blood flo
Title: Re: TDSK - VED
Post by: Old Man on March 14, 2007, 11:59:50 AM
tdsc:

Sorry that you do not accept the VED therapy as a viable one for Peyronies Disease. My only suggestion to you about using the VED is to try one before deciding finally that it has no value in Peyronies Disease therapy.

I have worked with many guys in prostate cancer, ED and Peyronies Disease as a counselor with the American Cancer Society. My experience also includes assisting a local uro group by counseling their patients on a need to know basis in using the VED. I have yet to find more than one or two guys that did not benefit from using the VED.

The VED can and will help with correcting Peyronies Disease cases in most cases as my experience has shown. In my case, it corrected a 45 degree downward and a 45 degree curve to the right side. It took about 6 months of daily therapy sessions to eliminate the problem. I use the VED now for erections due to impotence brought on by a non nerve sparing prostatectomy which left me impotent. I also use it on a systematic basis for maintence of the Peyronies Disease problem.

So, my bottom line to you is this, don't knock its use without ever having tried it. If used with common sense and in moderation, there should be no way that using a VED can cause further problems. For those few cases where it does cause pain or other problems, one should not use it.

Old Man
Title: Re: TDSK - Quality Evidence
Post by: Hawk on March 14, 2007, 04:11:38 PM
Tdsk,

I do not doubt that you can find a website where someone claiming to be a doctor or even a real doctor gave an account or an opinion on the dangers of a VED.  This is the internet! There are millions of new pages every day.  I can find sites that claim penis enlargement from space aliens and every medical absurdity imagined in any mind.  Saying, "I saw a website that said......" is not evidence of anything in the least. Surely you must know that Tdsk.

We can produce many users right here that say the contrary.  We can also produce well known, well respected experts in the field of urology and sexual medicine associated with competent medical centers that recommend its use.  VED's are FDA approved for ED.  Can you match any one o these credentials for your claim?  While these none of these prove they work, individually and collectively they constitute significant evidence.  If you can show comparable evidence I am sure it would be received with interest.

As far as the your penis enlargement issue, I refer you to my other post
Quote from: Hawk on March 14, 2007, 03:37:32 PM



I also refer you to a page worth reading http://www.peyroniessociety.org/evaluating.htm

Regards

Hawk
Title: Re: TDSK - VED Arguments Answered
Post by: George999 on March 15, 2007, 02:44:52 PM
I just want to get in my own thoughts here regarding tdsk's VED arguments.  I really think that it is not surprising that certain doctors might be very much opposed to the concept of the VED.  As many of you are aware, I, myself, have stated that no amount of inflammation is tolerable.  And I suppose that one could make the point that using a VED brings on a risk of aggravating inflammation related to Peyronies.  But modern medicine is simply moving very much against that concept.  It very much reflects an 'old school' approach to inflammation.  Years ago, for example, people were concerned about 'over exercise' and about what bad things might happen due to the muscle pain that follows strenuous exertion.  But now days people are encouraged to exercise to the 'point of pain and ache'.  We now know that those who suffer from some degree of pain and body ache actually do better health wise than those that are over protective of their body.  In the same way, years ago doctors prescribed long periods of bedrest after surgery in order for proper healing to take place.  Now days we know that the sooner we get the patient up and active, regardless of the pain it causes, the less complications they will have, including those related to scarring.  And the latest findings are that this extends even to back injuries, one of the final frontiers of medicine.  Leading back doctors have found that those with back injuries who pursue a reasonable exercise regimen fare as well, if not better than those who have surgery, and many back issues involve tenacious scarring in the spinal area.  This includes more than just muscular issues - like ruptured disks for example.  So, in the end, we are finding that pain itself and exercise of the injured/diseased tissue does not necessarily correlate to increased inflammation and in fact might well correlate in many cases with reduced inflammation and more effective healing.  I also want to directly respond to tdsk's point about the VED having the potential to 'permanently weaken' one's erections.  First of all, that is really just a speculation, I don't think there is any legitimate research out there that demonstrates that to be true.  And if you are going to reference an 'expert opinion', you need to be sure to sight a leading urologist, not some doc who is simply relying on 'old school' 'common wisdom' (and there are a lot of those well intentioned old souls out there).  Secondly, if one is suffering from Peyronies to the point that it is debilitating, I don't think that maintaining the optimal strength of their unassisted erections is at the top of the list in terms of concern.  Its sort of like denying the terminal patient pain medication in fear that they might become 'addicted'.  So you are indeed going to have to come up with more evidence than you now have to truly demonstrate that the VED is not 'legitimate'.  - George
Title: RE: George - Great Post about Pain and Exercise
Post by: Old Man on March 15, 2007, 05:02:13 PM
George999:

Thanks for a great post. You have stated one of the most profound statements about pain, exercise and the results obtained by keeping up an exercise routine.

I have had numerous surgeries in my life and for all of them, exercise came almost immediately after surgery or at least the next day. Had a total hip replacement done in 2002 one day and the next day, the therapist had me up and walking! Heart surgery in 2004 and the next day, I was sitting up and the second day was walking for exercise.

So, George, bottom line is that exercise has been demonstrated in my life to the very fullest that exercise does in fact relate to better healing.

Have no idea where tdsc comes up with the idea that stretching the plaque/scar tissue in one's penis by the VED can cause further inflammation and/or further damage. (Maybe he can publish the source of his documented evidence to clear up any further confusion, at least on my part.)This also has been demonstrated with my Peyronies Disease and many others that I have worked with in the past.

Regards, Old Man
Title: I read someting bad about VED's
Post by: tdsc on March 15, 2007, 06:42:35 PM
I just read on a Mayo health site that the ved can cause loss of sensation although only a few people report major problems with this.  In addition it lists bruising as a possible side effect.  I have no idea what a ved would do to the scar or whatnot.  However, if it's active inflammation, I presume it would have a deleterious effect.  It's not a good idea to use something that can cause side effects if it's not a serious problem.
Title: Re: TDSK - VED Response
Post by: George999 on March 15, 2007, 07:23:41 PM
Actually, this thread is supposed to be for discussion of oral treatments.  And then a new member came along and mentioned the VED in his post and I answered and the rest is history.  So, poor Hawk is going to end up having to relocate this whole string of offtopic posts to the VED section when we have beat the donkey thoroughly enough.

So tdsc, I would agree that the VED is not something the should be used for recreation.  But even Vitamin E can have side effects if used inappropriately.  Part of what concerns some physicians, which is understandable, is that they are afraid that if they approve of the VED for use with Peyronies, a few people will then somehow take that as an endorsement of penis 'enhancement'.  But the fact is many people right here on this forum have been using this device for some time and I have yet to see where any of them are noting significant side effects.  And regardless of your speculation on inflammation, I suggest that you stop going on 'presumptions' and start basing your decisions and your recommendations on legitimate research.  Because, as you yourself have so bluntly stated, you have 'no idea' as to what the issues are with the VED.  Quite honestly, I could just as easily speculate that the VED can assist in forcing areas of the tunica to 'relax' much as extending a limb can cause a cramped muscle to relax.  I could also very easily speculate that inflammed tunica tissue tends to 'want to' contract, and if left in that state for a prolonged period, can end up transforming itself gradually into scar tissue (a process known as atrophication).  I would further suggest that I could probably find more legitimate research to back up my speculation than you can to back up yours.  I know that you are probably not going to listen to me or to anybody else around here (including people with many more years of experience with this disease than either you or I).  But I do feel that your posts deserve a rational response as there are people listening in on this discussion who may well make crucial decisions based on the information or misinformation that they find posted here.  As Tim pointed out, I personally do not use the VED nor at this point do I intend to.  But I have to speak up for sound medicine.  And if you spend long on the Mayo clinic site you will find warnings on everything one can imagine including a number of popular prescription meds.  That's their job.  I can tell you very honestly that I have found information on the Mayo site that is patently incorrect or very outdated.  That is the way it is with large sites like theirs who simply don't have the time and resources to research every substance and device thoroughly.  No one here is arguing for anyone to use the VED casually.  In fact a number of people here are using their VED with the supervision and assistance of their urologists who I would argue have significantly more expertise on the subject than you have.  And for the benefit of those watching on, I will say to you like I do to everyone else:  Discuss VED use with your physician.  The bottom line is, many people around here have found it helpful and without significant negative side effects.  And unlike most other sites, this site is not trying to sell you something and part you from your money.  And unlike the Mayo clinic site, this site focuses on Peyronies and is not trying to be all things to all people.

- George
Title: Moved Posts and A Butt Chewing
Post by: Hawk on March 15, 2007, 08:23:06 PM
Guys,

I first thank George for drawing my attention to the fact that about twenty posts were posted under the wrong topic.  I actually contributed to that mess.  There were so many I thought it was the VED topic.

Moving those posts was not fun.  Additionally what really made it annoying was that I had to change the subject lines on most of them.  If I was not so strapped, I would not sound off so quickly, but I really need the help guys.

Please watch the topics and make sure you always edit the subject lines of your posts to reflect specifically what you are actually posting about.

Thanks

Hawk
Title: More evidence for VEDs and physical stimulation of the tunica ...
Post by: George999 on March 16, 2007, 02:22:28 PM
I just want to add a few more thoughts on this one before I leave the issue to rest.  Roadblock recently posted an excellent link under the Causes of Peyronies topic to a study that points out that " ... Peyronies Disease is associated with other fibrotic conditions such as Dupuytren's contracture (palmar fascia; 10-20% incidence or more in Peyronies Disease) and Ledeshore's disease (plantar fascia)."  I find this really fascinating for several reasons.  The link to Dupuytren's contracture is widely acknowledged, but the link to Ledeshore's disease is hardly ever noted.   The term "Ledeshore's disease" is, as far as I understand, a very rarely used label for what is commonly referred to as "plantar fasciitis". This is an inflammation of a major tendon of the foot that progress in a remarkably similar fashion as Peyronies.  I developed both Peyronies and plantar fasciitis at around the same point in time.  When I went to the podiatrist, his prognosis was that I was probably still in the initial inflammatory stage which is the easiest to cure.  Next, the disease would move into the 'chronic phase' and then later into a 'calcification' phase if I didn't get it taken care of.  All of this would be eerily similar to what I would later hear regarding Peyronies.  Research has indicated that both diseases are powered by TGF-beta.  Both diseases are associated with beta blockers which I happened to be taking at the time.  The plantar fasciitis which initially affected only one foot went on to affect the other one as well and the disease moved into the chronic stage and I was unable to control it with the initial treatment advised.  Later when I discovered the possible link with beta blockers I quit them and the initial treatment then worked and I am now completely free of that disease even though I had already passed well into the chronic phase.  These diseases are so similar, one has to question why plantar fasciitis seems to be much more responsive to therapy than palmar fasciitis (even after it reaches the calcification stage!), and Peyronies seems to be the least responsive of the three.  It is this question that set me to thinking.  The therapy that I was able to successfully use with the plantar fasciitis was 1) ice for 15 to 20 minute intervals.  That is easy to use on your foot, I'm not so sure about other parts of one's anatomy.  2) stretches, yes get up in the morning and carefully stretch the affected area and don't worry about inflaming it by doing so.  Sounds almost like the VED at this point.  3) The last was exercise.  I was basically told to walk as much as possible no matter how badly it hurt.  And what I discovered that as I walked, the pain went away.  So we all know (I guess) that ice tends to reduce inflammation, but what about stretching and exercise?  This combination cured my plantar fasciitis.  I really wonder if the process of gently forcing as much mobility on the affected tissue doesn't somehow inhibit localized expression of TGF-beta in addition to inducing relaxation.  Wouldn't that be interesting?  So I guess my point is that the healthy tunica is always in a dynamic, ever changing state.  A static tunica is a sick tunica.  If this is the case, it would make sense that we should do whatever possible to carefully induce mobility on the tunica in order to possibly even stifle TGF-beta via an as yet undiscovered vector.  One way of doing this would certainly be with a VED.  Could the difficulty in controlling Peyronies be associated with the difficulty of sufficiently stimulating the tunica?  That is the question that is bumping around in my head right now.

- George
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Old Man on March 16, 2007, 02:45:27 PM
George:

Thanks for your most interesting prior post. You have made my day! This is what I been trying to get across with posts ever since I have been a member of this forum. The daily stretching of my penis with the VED, I am firmly convinced, did the trick (no pun intended) for "curing" my episode of Peyronies Disease.

Continuing maintenance VED therapy has kept my Peyronies Disease in check so far. There is only one small dented area that can be seen, more like felt, when erect. Flaccid, there is no visible evidence of Peyronies Disease in any shape, form or fashion. My therapy sessions for treating my Peyronies Disease only included the VED along with varying amounts of vitamin E. This regimen was started only after all other trials of many and varied treatments failed.

So, many thanks, and a vote of commendation for your continued support of the VED therapy. Just hope that more guys will enlist its use in their therapy. It has proven to be of value for at least some of us.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: tdsc on March 16, 2007, 05:39:51 PM
George-

I have most recently noticed that the area of the injury around the head, has loosened up.  There was never a plaque, but it has been tight for the past few months.  I have been doing no therapy and have even recently subdued all daily erections because of the pain, and the pain  has since gone down.  It is possible that the erections at night stretched the area, but to be honest it has loosened up and I haven't used the VED.  It's been about 10 months since the date of the injury. 
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: George999 on March 16, 2007, 05:50:54 PM
tdsc, I think you are misunderstanding me.  I am not saying at all that everyone with Peyronies must use a VED or even should use a VED.  As has been pointed out before, I myself do not use one.  If you are getting results, then you are obviously doing the right things.  Each person's case is different and requires a unique approach.  In some recorded cases, people have gotten over their Peyronies with no treatment at all.  But please don't try to discredit the validity of VED use for Peyronies.  There is just too much evidence for its credibility.  Remember that devices like this tend to have a bad image simply because they are used for other purposes.  Don't let that cloud your objectivity.

- George
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Hawk on March 16, 2007, 10:04:40 PM
I thought I posted this once here.  In fact I was sure I had but i cannot find it so I post it again.  It is a variation of one of my first posts on a Peyronies Disease forum.  For the 10th time I will encourage all to study the scar reduction papers in the Resource Library section of our forum.

First I want to make it clear I am not recommending any plan of action. At times, I can barely figure out what I am doing next with my own dilemma. I also want to remind everyone of the old adage, A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.  I think we have often seen that principle on exhibit.

With that in mind I want to present a few facts that MAY be far removed from our situation, and then  extrapolate those facts to Peyronies Disease.

One of the major management problems of burn victims is contracture of scar tissue. Positional splints, elastic bandages, and stretching techniques are employed to literally prevent the drawing effects of scar tissue. These procedures are relatively successful. Researchers seem unsure as to whether at a cellular level, this actually stretches existing cells, making them thinner and weaker, or proliferate new cells, but one way or the other; the scar tissue area does increase. Stretching is successful.

With Peyronies Disease, our scarred area is not under tension most of the time. If you have ED, it is seldom under any tension. The plaque may be free to draw unchecked. It seems to form or draw to the reduced flaccid size and we know the results when we get an erection. Why wouldn't reasonable regular stretching prevent contracture of the tissue even in the early acute phase of the disease? Burn patients while healing, must stretch every morning because tension has been off the area all night. It is not a morning stretch like most people do, but in depth, involved, slow, restoration stretching to bring them to where they were the day before and even beyond that to reach new flexibility.  This is not pain-free stretching

There are probably more problems with this correlation than I can imagine, but here are a few I recognize. Burn victims are stretching scarred skin, which may not correlate to scarred tunica albuginea. If you are depending on VED engorgement to do the stretching, the stretching force needed might damage corpora cavernosal tissue around the scar which is the weakest link. The fact that the Peyronies Disease scar tissue is usually very relaxed, might offset any gains that a practical amount of stretching could accomplish. Maybe a tension device could be used to keep a more constant stretch but then if the delicate surrounding tunica albuginea tissue is truely the weakest link in the stretch, it might tear before the scar tissue ever stretched, resulting in micro tears, bleeding, and more scar tissue.

Let's face it, Peyronies Disease plaque (scar tissue) is NOT skin scar tissue. For one thing, Peyronies Disease plaque calcifies so the comparison is no doubt flawed. Nevertheless, there is some correlation.  That coupled with the positive results many see with the VED and the promise of tension devices means that regular, controlled, conservative, stretching is still on the table as a treatment option.  in fact it is clearly gaining favor by respected medical specialists.
Title: Scars and looks
Post by: Tim468 on March 16, 2007, 10:54:11 PM
A brief note about scarring.

When I was younger a chisel feel onto my hand while I was working and cut into the skin over my left pinkie finger. My Dad and I head into the ER and a few hours later I left with a nice bandage.

That wound healed into a normal enough looking scar, but over time it turned into a keloid scar. This pile of darker looking and heaped up skin was resected out with a small incision, and the skin edges were approximated well enough, and sutured up.

Today, about 38 years later, that scar is unchanged. I have another scar on my arm that was axcquired on a barb wire fence - it used to be purple and hard and now it is pale white, flat and barely palpable.

To me, there is a difference between healing back up so that there is NO EVIDENCE of a prior wound (seems unlikely to ever happen) and healing up so that the skin is functional.

Over these areas, some hair grows. I sweat there. It is compliant and flexible, and unlike a contracted burn scar has NO effect on my skins function.

So, I would describe the evolution of these wounds as having completely healed without any sequellae. However, if I healed (even very well) on my face, and the scar runs across my lip such that  the "ermillion border" (the edge of the normal skin with the pnk skin of the lip) is not brought together perfectly - that scar will ALWAYS show up as abnormal.

So there are limits to healing. Skin will not migrate back "into place" or something like that. But normal wound healing leaves you with a knitted together area of skin and it may not LOOK normal but it FUNCTIONS normally. I would call that a perfectly healed wound. If it is your face and you are a famous movie star then a definition of "perfect" might be different.

So, I think it is not logical or right to imagine that VISIBLE evidence of a scar dissolving should be a standard of wound healing to strive for. Rather, a well knitted together line, without lumpiness, contraction, dimpling etc is a sign of good healing to me. I look at lung xrays after bad infections with their persistent scars and explain to people (showing them my arm and finger) that they may always show signs of the infection, but that does not mean that their lungs will not heal back to perfect FUNCTION.

And so I think it ought to be in Peyronies Disease. I think it is reasonable to hope for diminished inflammation, reduced contractures, healing and relaxing scars back towards a more normal function of the Tunica Albuginea. It may not be that we could expect a dimple to completely go away or that a bend dissolve so that no record of the problem remained. But I would accept "good enough" any day of the week, as would almost every guy here.

Tim

Title: VED impotence
Post by: Rzz on March 17, 2007, 04:49:22 AM
This question is for Old Man or actually anybody who has some amount of time using a VED. I actually have 3 questions.

1) This regards an earlier question I had concerning whether the VED can help somebody whose main problem from Peyronies Disease is partial impotence. Old Man answered the question, "Yes." However, I think he may have misunderstood what I meant. It was my fault, I did not clearly explain my question. I already knew that one could use the VED to pump up the penis; then use a restrictor type ring to hold in the blood and therefore maintain an erection. What I meant is can the VED help without a retrictor ring. Say if on a 1-10 scale, a man rates his erection quality at about 4-5. If this same man uses a VED correctly, safely and for a long enough time, can he improve his erection qaulity to better than a 4-5?

2) The vast majority of those I read on the forum who use or have used the VED say they use a kind of method of ( pump up/hold a few minutes/release --- pump up/hold a few minutes/release and repeat and repeat). I was reading on another Peyronies Disease web site and on this site Dr. Levine, who is highly respected and regarded in the treatment of Peyronies Disease, has himself started having many of his patients use a VED in conjunction with Verapamil Injections. However, he stated that he prefers and thinks it's better and instructs his patients to use a ( Pump up and hold for 20-30 minutes and release) then repeat this 2-3 times a day. Anotherwords he does not reccomend the pump-release/ pump-release type method. What does everybody think about Levine's method?

3) **** Before you read the 3rd question, please don't tell me about how an implant should be the last resort. I've had Peyronies Disease for quite a while and have researched the heck out of the subject and I know an implant is a last resort. Besides, I'm not considering one at this time. However, I will say that down the road a few years. I'm not ruling it out. They've made great improvements on the procedure, even in the last few years. As long as one has a surgeon who is HIGHLY skilled with implants and experience in putting these implants in patients who also have Peyronies Disease.

QUESTION #3:   I've read on forums and in medical papers, that an individual who is considering a penile implant can take his flaccid penis and stretch it out as far as he comfortably can and that is about the length he can expect his erections to be after implant. Now I have read many times about men using the VED defintely seeing increases in their flaccid penis. As a matter of fact, this is the most consistent thing I read from people using the VED. I've read were they saw other positive results too, but the increase in the flaccid state is something I've seen quite often. So my question is: If a man was seriously considering an implant and was concerned about the length of his post-op implant erection length, would it be a good thing if he regurally used a VED for about a year or so before his implant surgery? Anotherwords, if he increased his pre-op flaccid length with a VED: would he then not also increase his post-op implant erection length?


Title: Rzz & VED
Post by: Steve on March 17, 2007, 09:33:16 AM
Rzz,

I'll leave questions 1 & 2 to others, but wanted to put in my 2 cents worth on #3.

When we VED users talk about increasing the flaccid size, I'm pretty sure that we're talking about the relaxed flaccid size.  The stretched size wouldn't change from VED usage unless the underlying corpus cavernosum (where's that spell checker) have become inflexible due to lack of erections.  VED usage could in that instance result in a longer 'stretched' size by increasing the flexibility of the corpus but, if I'm not mistaken, implants will replace the corpus tissues.

I'm sure that there are others here with more experience/knowlege of the implants who can better explain what I'm trying to say.

Steve
Title: Re: Answera to RZZ's questions
Post by: Old Man on March 17, 2007, 12:42:40 PM
RZZ:

Will try to give you the benefit of my experiences(s) and those of  guys that I have worked with on Peyronies Disease and ED.

First, I should state that in my case, the VED did give me a larger size as a result of using the VED for over 6 months immediately after my radical prostatectory. But, if my memory serves me right, it only gave me about 1/2 inch longer than I had when I was in my 20s. So, I consider that the VED can and will return one's lost dimensions due to Peyronies Disease, ED or whatever, but cannot give much if any added length.

Now to answer questions in order:
Nr. 1: I do firmly believe that with a proper VED protocol that erections can be helped. Unless there are other medical reasons such as diabetes, venous leakage, psychological and other related blood flow problems, using the VED on a daily routine can and will in most cases give better erections. As we all know, the retainer ring(s) are used where there is a venous leakage problem or other medial maladies. So, bottom line, the answer is yes that VED usage can give better erections due to the stretching of the tissues that may have become "drawn up" due to lack of usage.

Nr. 2: I respectfully take issue with Dr. Levine's method of pumping up and holding for 20 to 30 minutes at a time. First of all, that would be the same as using a tourniquet, like say for cutting off blood flow to a wound. The constant pressure may or may not give better stretching, but I liken my method of stretching to working out at a gym, where you do repetitions/cycles of muscle exercises to cause varying degrees of pressure to desired areas. Holding the blood in the corpus chambers that long seems to me would put overdue strain on the smooth muscle and therefore may cause further damage. The protocol that is being tested in the Birmingham, AL clinical trials using the three cylinder method is based on experience of a number of Peyronies Disease patients, myself included. The varying times of holding the pressure IMHO gives the tissue a better flow of blood at varying degrees of pressure over a shorter period of time each day. (Aded Note: I tried to hold the VED pressure for the 20 to 30 minute cycle to test his theory, I had to constanty add addition pressure to maintain a steady pressure each time I tried it. And, it was more time consuming.)

NR 3 This question is a very good one, RZZ. My mother-in-law's last husband had an implant done about 5 years before he died. He was not overly endowed with dimensions and desired to get as much as possible out of his implant. He was advised by his uro/surgeon to do daily exercises similar to jelqing, but with minimal pressure for the cycles. The operation was done after several weeks of these exercises. Several days before the surgery, the uro gave him a Caverject injection to determine what erection he could get that way. It was not too successful, and the uro went with the manually stretched dimensions for sizing the implant. He was successful in getting about the same length he had before the surgery. Now, bottom line about using the VED for a while before surgery - IMHO, my belief is that if you see an increase in the flaccid state as a result of the exercises, you should get at least that much size using the implant.

The above is just my considered opinions based on my observations and working with guys in the ED, Peyronies Disease and mens health area with a local support group and a local uro group. Hope this gives you a little better understanding about this subject. Let me know if you have further questions that I can answer or get an answer for you.

Regards, Old Man
Title: VED Method // Levine
Post by: Rzz on March 17, 2007, 05:27:34 PM
Old Man,

In regards to Dr. Levine and his recommendation in the use of the VED. Although I'm pretty sure I read his recommendations correctly, let me go back and read it again to be 100% certain that is what he said or more importantly that is what he meant. Because if I read it wrong, I don't want people using the VED to think since a well respected doctor such as Levine says, the pump-up/ hold 20-30 min and repeat 2-3 times a day is the best method, they change thier method. I want to be absolutely sure that is what he meant. I don't know, maybe he meant to use this method only in conjunction with Verapamil Injections. Let me go look at it again.

I know the web site where I read this about Levine's recommendation for using the VED, I just don't know where on that particular site I saw it. So give me an hour or so and I'll get back to you on this.       Thanks,    Rzz


Title: Re:Rzz - Levine's VED recommendation
Post by: Hawk on March 17, 2007, 05:43:55 PM
Rzz,

I am sure that IS what he said.  I remember it being a topic of discussion here before but I can't find it.  The consensus was that most could see no logic or benefit in holding blood that de-oygenates for 30 minutes when you can easily get the stretch and still keep a good blood flow by pumping/holding, releasing, and repumping.   
Title: Levine's VED method
Post by: Rzz on March 17, 2007, 05:57:36 PM
I just want everybody to know that I'm not recommending in any way, shape or form on how to use the VED. I have very little knowledge on the subject and just recently began considering using a VED myself. I'm not recommending Dr. Levine's or anybody else's method because I don't know enough to make any reccomensations. I do know that Old Man is very, very knowlegable on the subject and as far as the VED he is someone to listen to. I just wanted to know what everybody thought about Levine's method of using the VED. I also wanted to be 100% sure that I read correctly what he said.

I went back and read agian what Dr, Levine said about using the VED. I did indeed read it correctly the first time. He reccomends a method of ( Pump and hold for 20-30 minutes 2-3 daily.) He kind of relates his method of pump and hold for 20-30 min. to molding the scar tissue and making it more elastic; compared to the method of pump-release/pump release as more of stretching the scar tissue and just making it longer but not as elastic. 
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices/time to pump and hold
Post by: Old Man on March 17, 2007, 09:05:30 PM
RZZ:

I have been away from the house for several hours. Just read Hawk's and your posts. You were exactly correct about Dr. Levine's time limit, etc.

I still take issue with it for the reason that Hawk states in his prior post. Blood held that long in the corpus chambers would lose most if not all its oxygen and I see that as bad. Since I am a heart patient having had bypass surgery, I would not for any reason hold the blood in any part of my body for that length of time.

Anyway, we are all on the same page now about this. Thanks for your input. If you decide to try the VED protocol, would be glad to share any and all information you desire about the proper way to use it.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Pump and release Vs Pump and hold
Post by: Hawk on March 17, 2007, 09:26:56 PM
In all due respect to Dr. Levine, I am sure he is simply speculating as to what seems kind of rational to him.  I think he would readily acknowledge, and openly state that he has absolutely no comparative data on which to base his opinion.  Generally any stretch is somewhat more effective slow and long over short and jerky.  I think he refers to the pump and release method as kind of a tugging motion.  There are two issues that make me question this.

1.  Pumping and holding for a couple minutes is not jerking or tugging.  It is a slow controlled stretch.

2. The stretch with a VED is caused by blood gorging the chambers.  This blood loses oxygen and all doctors and manufactures of VED's recommend a 30 minute maximum for holding the same blood in the penis with a retainer band.  There can be no doubt that holding the same blood in the penis wit a constant vacuum also drops the Oxygen levels.  It is commonly agreed (I think even by Dr,. Levine) that oxygenation plays some role in decreasing TGF-B1. TGF-B! is a growth factor responsible for the over production of collagen.

3.  I will throw in a 3rd reason.  A VED can draw blood through the thin wall of a capillary.  This is especially if a man is taking blood thinners including natural thinners like vit E, garlic, ginkgo.  In my VERY humble opinion, wonder if the longer pump time does not make it more likely for this to occur when compared to pump/hold and release.

Weighing the evidence we have, I would opt for pump/hold for 2 minutes and release, with each pump gradually reaching a tighter pump but over pumping to the point of pain or even moderate discomfort.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on March 17, 2007, 11:00:02 PM
To my knowledge, Dr LEvine has not ever been asked to clarifythe specifics of what we are debating. Thus, his comments should be construed, IMHO, as a response to "how long is long enough", and "how do you do this?"

When one compares a jerky method, then of course, prolonged stretching is better. But most of us who do it periodically release pressure.

I have found a couple of things to be true for me. First, my flaccid stretched length is not as long as my erect length. In general, the medical literature says that the erect length will be about 1 1.5 cm longer than the length that one can stretch a flaccid penis out to. But for me the difference is more pronounced. I believe that I have "contractile elements" - namely smooth muscle - that leads me to draw uptight; to "turtle" a bit when I am flaccid (as if I were cold). So the difference for me - when I compare a stretch from that state to my erect state - shows an about 3 cm difference in length.

When I stretch with the VED, I am basicly starting at that shorter length - even at the same vacuum as wll later stretch me out longer. For me, the limiting step seems to now be a cord that runs along the dorsum of my penis, and that seems to stretch a bit over time. Thus, I gain about an inch or more over a ten minute period as things seem to loosen up and relax, and the maximal stretch is finally seen.

I return to the pre-VED length after I am done over a variable amount of time - perhaps 10 to 60 minutes. So I think that there is a seeming benefit for me in prevention of a gradual shortening that might be going on due to Peyronies Disease otherwise (I have no proof it would be different if I never did this at all, of course).

So, I see a gradual lengthening over the usuall 30 minutes I stretch. I release perdiodically to readjust the chamber and to reseat it. By so doing, I seem to help gain the better length for the latter part of my stretching exercises. So for me, the periodic readjustments are crucial to feeling like I am doing it properly. I also end with longer periods of time without break (ie 5-8 minutes between releases), once I am at my "good and longer" length.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: tdsc on March 18, 2007, 03:07:16 PM
Bottom line, from those who have used the VED, does it cause a weaker erection?  Does the penis look like a beat up sausage in the hours following?  How long does it take to regain a natural erection after using the VED?
Title: Re: VED's and erections
Post by: Old Man on March 18, 2007, 05:00:35 PM
tdsc:

From my 12 years plus personal experience in using three different models of VEDs, I have not had any lessening or weaker erections, no "beat up appearance" as you say and no real problems of any kind. In some cases, like mine having venous leakage, I probably will never be able to attain a natural erection sufficient to penetrate and therefore rely on the VED for erections.

Those guys who have no physical problem could possible regain the ability to obtain an erection after VED therapy. Some have reported their success with VED therapy helping in that area. I suppose it is all based one's mental attitude and physical conditioning, etc.

My experence has only been positive. There were times when being overzealous in pumping caused some minor edema which went away after a few days off the VED pumping. This, of couse, taught me not to overpump the pressure and that has been my caution to all since those episodes.

I know of no person who has reported a decrease of erections while using the VED. You have read all the posts by many guys using the VED and they should give you an insight as to their experience.

Old Man
Title: Re: TDSK
Post by: Hawk on March 18, 2007, 07:48:54 PM
Quote from: tdsc on March 18, 2007, 03:07:16 PM
from those who have used the VED, does it cause a weaker erection?  Does the penis look like a beat up sausage in the hours following?  How long does it take to regain a natural erection after using the VED?

Your questions and comments are difficult to understand.  They seem to offer bizarre findings, questionionable, or non-existent sources, departure from accepted medical principles, stubborn prejudice, and a resistance to consider facts.  As the forum administrator I have to begin to wonder if you are a serious poster and a legitimate member or simply attempting to distract a serious forum for your idle amusement.  There are 860 posts on this single topic.  Most are about VED usage.  Have you read them?  Have you bothered to read any of them?  Can you seriously think we are morons that use a device and are too unobservant to know if it decreased our erections?  Are we so stupid to regularly use a device that would make our penis look like a "beat up sausage?"  The facts are that you are among the largest assembly of experienced Peyronies Disease sufferers ever to come together to form a support group.  The intellectual caliber of their posts, the analytical nature of their search for improvement, and their quest for education on the facts, is unequaled.

I am going to answer your questions and encourage others that wish to do the same, even thought the obvious answers are already here for anyone not too lazy or afraid to find the facts.  I want you to know that you are a welcome member of this group and you will remain so as long as it appears that you are sincere and not deliberately being absurd to disrupt our forum.  We tolerate ignorance and mental limitations.  In fact we embrace them and try to help.  We embrace honest difference of opinion. We have no tolerance however for pranksters, the insincere, or those that just want to disrupt serious conversation.

Answer: The VED, if used with anything approaching common sense, gives an erection that looks like any other erection.  If used in a pump/hold and release treatment method, the erection it produces is the same to the touch, color, shape, and every other aspect of a normal erection.  It can of course be pumped a bit fuller or a bit less than a normal erection.  In either case, the after-effect is one of a bit of a fuller hang for a brief time (much like after any erection).  If used once or twice daily the fuller hang remains in between VED sessions but it will shortly go away at anytime you cease using the VED.  Having read thousands of VED posts on many types of forums, I have never read anyone that felt the VED decreased their natural erection.  If you could get natural erections prior to the VED, you can get a natural erection immediately upon removing the VED.  I have never know a recognized urologist or sexual medicine specialist that expressed any concerns of proper VED use damaging erection quality.  I have known those that thought it enhanced natural erection quality.  This is true even with doctors that doubt the VED's effectiveness as a Peyronies Disease treatment.

When you sign on the main page of the forum you will see a listing for "Child Board" "Newly Diagnosed Highlights - Quickly educate yourself on each topic found on our "Discussion Forum"  I encourage you to use this for its intended purpose.  After putting in a little time there, feel free to ask any sincere questions or offer any sincere comment you may have.

Regards
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: George999 on March 18, 2007, 08:58:05 PM
I just want to share with you all a little simple experiment I did a few days back when we were all in the middle of this VED discussion.  I don't recommend this as a therapy, but I am finding the idea intriguing.  I have seen it suggested before, but just kind of wrote it off as being a bit loony.  What I did (sort of as a result of our discussion) was to vigorously massage my little plaques and the band of plaque connecting them to the point that they were fairly severely inflamed to the point of noticeable pain.  In theory this would be considered 'a bad thing to do' since it caused inflammation.  However, to my surprise, the next night I noted less deformity in my erections.  And over the following few days I have noticed that the band of plaque between the two larger plaques seems to have shrunk.  And the larger plaques seem to have softened.  I know this is not all that 'scientific', but it was definitely not the expected outcome and I definitely plan to worry less about how I might stimulate the plaques to the point of inflammation.  I know that one thing I have experienced with the Horny Goat Weed, Maca and Vasoflow is some really rock hard to the point of painful erections.  And these have not resulted in any negative side effects.  If anything they have caused an improvement in my condition.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: gerMike on March 19, 2007, 12:09:18 AM
I bought a new VED with a gauge to control the pressure. Are there any recommendations how much pressure to apply for excercises? I want to use the pump up/release cycles.
Title: Old Man or any experienced VED user
Post by: Rzz on March 19, 2007, 02:14:51 AM
2 Things:

1) I've read where you and other regular VED users have said that when one uses the VED to achieve an erection and then uses a restrictor ring to maintain that erection for sex, he should not leave the ring on for more than 30 minutes. I've also read where it actually says that in the instructions that come with the VED. I have 2 questions regarding this.   ****If one takes the restrictor ring off after 30 minutes, how long should he wait until he pumps back up with the VED and uses the restrictor ring to maintain another erection?       *****Does intercourse, oral sex and finally an orgasm feel the same with a restrictor ring erection?

2) Old Man, I noticed in your last post you said you have venous leakage. In my research, I have read many times that venous leakage in many cases can be fixed surgically. It used to be that this surgery only had about a 35% success rate and because of the low success rate was not even reccomended for elderly patients. However; with the many advances in recent years and with a surgeon who is highly skilled in the procedure, this success rate is now closer to 75%. If I'm not mistaken, I believe the procedure is now mostly done by a vascular surgeon; not a urulogist. In addition, I also seem to remember that thier are different types of venous leakage and some type still have a somewhat low success rate range of about 40%-50%. Is this something you and your doctor have talked about.                Rzz



Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on March 19, 2007, 10:01:01 AM
TDSC - I look fine and get normal erections whenever I want them (within reason). It is really hard to know if you are stubborn or spoofing us, tdsc. Why do you imagine that we would do something to ourselves that is harmful?

to gerMike

I use pressures of 100-200 mm Hg negative pressure. I start lower and gradually increase, using a gentle milking pressure to pull blood into the penis. When it is full of blood, I cap off at  -200 mm Hg pressure - that is what feels good to me.

I periodically release over the first ten minutes about once every 3 minutes, readjust it, and milk it a bit as I go negative again. By 5-10 minutes, I tend to leave it at -200 pressure and to unclip it, and read. I do this in the tub, for I feel that the warm water increases the stretchiness of my penis - but not much. Mostly, it is convenient and private.

Since most blood pressure is less that 200 mm Hg, it is unlikely that arterial blood flow will exit my penis. I therefore feel that periodic release is important for better oxygenation. I do not know, though, if that is the pressure that al the major blood vessels are "seeing" inside my penis - it may be that I still get some inflow and outflow despite the erection.

Interestingly, since I usually do this at bedtime, I have rarely tested my penis afterwards. But I did the other day and found that my penis retained its much straighter appearance with a "natural erection" (no retaining rings - I don't do that). That was pretty fun! My dorsal curvature usually reappears - in that if I get a spontaneous erection later, the dorsal curve is back (thought I have seen some improvement in the angulation over the past 6+ months). So, I see this as a very gradual process for me, and it is aided by the supplements.

Tim
Title: Re: Questions about restrictor rings
Post by: Old Man on March 19, 2007, 06:28:10 PM
RZZ:
When using the restrictor ring for sex and you have gone the 30 minute cycle, you must remove the ring and pump up again if you have not reached a climax/orgasm and desire to continue until you have one. I don't know of any time period that has been specified anywhere by medical personnel or a uro, etc. In my case, I usually wait about 5 minutes and while I am waiting, I sort of massage the old tool to help with equalizing the blood flow, etc. Then I pump up again and apply the retainer, etc.

In my case, I do lose a small amount of feeling when reaching a climax using the retainer ring(s). It is not enough to cause any concern for me or the wife. We enjoy sex as usual, except for the positions we use due aging requiring modified positions from what we used when we were much younger. Age and arthritis causes ones body to require different "strokes" for instance. So, anyway, the loss of feeling does not pose a problem for us and I have not seen many complaints about that from anyone.

Now about the venous leakage surgery - I have heard and read about the surgery you are talking about. Since I have no problem with using the VED for erections, I never explored the possibility of having the surgery done. Since my surgery history includes 14 or 15 major and minor surgeries, I just don't want to have any more done in the private area. I am facing two or three surgeries now and that will be enough for me!

Old Man

Title: VED vacuum gauges: millimeters and inches
Post by: Angus on March 19, 2007, 07:48:38 PM
Quote from: gerMike on March 19, 2007, 12:09:18 AM
I bought a new VED with a gauge to control the pressure. Are there any recommendations how much pressure to apply for excercises? I want to use the pump up/release cycles.

    For gerMike and any others who may have a vacuum/negative pressure gauge that measures in inches not millimeters, here are some numbers I use. I usually hover around -5 inches Hg of vacuum when using the ved. That would be the equivalent of -125 mm and is a very comfortable amount that causes little if any discomfort. I can stand up to -7 to -10 inches Hg of vacuum but not held very long. Below are some conversion numbers that should help keep some of our explanations clear and more understandable. These are rounded off numbers and not taken out several decimal places, which would be overkill for the small vacuum gauges we use.
   Hoping this doesn't confuse the issue... but we have both metric and standard (US) vacuum gauges in use here.

Inches Hg     mm Hg
4                  100
5                  125
6                  150
7                  180
8                  205



Title: VED cylinder sizes
Post by: bodoo2u on April 24, 2007, 05:48:54 AM
Can anyone tell me how large the largest of the three cylinders should be when using the 26-week protocol? I purchased 1.5- and two-inch cylinders, and by the time I'm ready for the 7th week I will have purchased the largest size. Is penis circumference a consideration when purchasing the largest cylinder?   

Also, write me privately if you plan to order from Bostonpump.com.
Title: Re: VED cylinder sizes
Post by: Hawk on April 24, 2007, 09:24:29 AM
Quote from: bodoo2u on April 24, 2007, 05:48:54 AM
Also, write me privately if you plan to order from Bostonpump.com.

Bodoo2u,

I am curious about that quote.  If you have a useful opinion or experience concerning this company I would encourage you to share it with the thousands that use the forum.  Most will NOT contact you privately and you may not be in a position to quickly respond if they did.  That is the entire point of the forum.
Title: Boston Pump and pressures
Post by: Tim468 on April 24, 2007, 10:14:47 AM
If anyone has questions regarding Boston Pumps, they can feel free to post openly on the boards to get my opinions! I recently ordered from them and have no complaints at all. The only minor thing to mention is that they apply a tape measure on the side of the cylinder to use to "follow your progress". The problem I have with it is that it starts at about 1/2 to 3/4 inch from the base, so that the measured length is less than what one might actually measure if one were to use a rule on the upper side (the side you can see) of the penis. I know it is silly, but it is a bit discouraging to read a length that is shorter than I really am!

As far as pressures... I am trying out the Boston Pump cylinder that includes the soft sleeve. It feels much better to not have my scrotum sucked into the larger cylinder now by the pump! I note that when I use the smaller cylinder that fits "too tightly" to allow for full expansion, that I can apply greater pressures (at about -200 mm Hg) and this is quite comfortable. However, when I use the larger cylinders that allow for lateral expansion of the penis, the higher pressures get uncomfortable and I prefer to use about -125 mm Hg vacuum. I hope that helps. It also shows me that the gauge may be useful in determining what we are doing, so we can do it better.

Tim
Title: Boodo2U
Post by: Steve on April 24, 2007, 11:16:51 AM
To answer your original question, the ID of the largest cylinder of the Augusta 3 cylinder model (at least mine) is about 2 1/16" (about 54 mm).
Title: Bostonpump embarassment
Post by: bodoo2u on April 24, 2007, 03:49:09 PM
Tim,

I don't want to face a lawsuit so I decided that it might be better to talk about my issues in private. They may not even be that big of a deal for most guys, it just depends on what method of payment they use.

I initially ordered a complete pumping package and an additional cylinder from bostonpump.com. The site instructions say that you should not hit the back button, but when I hit the submit button the site warned me that there was a problem with my order. I waited a while and finally decided that I needed to go back to see if I had improperly entered my credit card info. In frustration, I repeated that step twice to no avail.

Something told me to go back to the web site later and lo and behold there were three orders for nearly $200 each showing when I logged in. I logged on to my bank account and there were three check card holds for nearly $600. What would have happened if it was bill time? I could have been overdrawn.

I called and left a message and sent several emails but no one responded, and the holds remained on my check card for what seemed like an eternity.

The worse part of the experience is the privacy issue. The company owner will inconvenience you by requiring you to personally sign for the package, which can be a problem if work during postal operation hours. Yes, he says it is for privacy reasons and he will wrap it in plain wrapping paper for your protection, but he does nothing to protect your privacy with regards to how the company name appears on your bank statement.

Imagine how the tellers at my local bank branch will look at me when they see Bostonpump.com on screen during a transaction. Most of them are young women and they have access to the Internet. Surely they will put the site's name in their browser window and see that I am trying to enlarge my penis, which is what the site claims it's products will do.

Thankfully, after the orders were removed from my account the three bostonpump.com charges no longer appear (at least not on my online account).

Since I really need the pump for Peyronies Disease and it is a lot less expensive that the Soma, I ordered again, this time using paypal. Lo and behold, Paypal placed the name of the company on my bank statement at least in part. It says "bostonpumpc".

I guess I'm just embarrassed to have the tellers at my bank thinking that my penis is too short. I emailed the site about my concerns so that they can help protect their customers a little better, but I never received a response.

Some of you may think I'm being petty, but I think that Peyronies Disease sufferers have enough to worry about (such as family and friends thinking we're gay for not pursuing women) without having to suffer further embarrassment.

Also, the site says that orders over $100 will be shipped free of charge, but there is no way to remove the $10 shipping charge. The owner/manager says he will refund it to you. Why not just create a process for removing it right away?

One more thing, the site says they us Priority Mail for shipping. I ordered my product on April 19 and today is April 24. That's five days if you don't count the day I ordered.

Title: Re: BoDoo2u
Post by: Hawk on April 24, 2007, 08:58:48 PM
BoDoo,

Thanks for sharing your concerns.  They need to be addressed for the benefit of others.

I understand your concern, but I can assure you that tellers (actually bookkeeps, not the tellers) have literally tens of thousands of transactions per day electronically logged to bank accounts in their location.  They no more have time, means, or reason to search one out on the internet than you do to mentally match boob size with licence plate numbers of the women you pass as you are driving to work on the interstate. That would be true even if they included Bostonpump.com.  Bostonpumppc would only be a guess even if someone cared enough and had time to investigate.  On top of that, consider  that you have no more face time with the people in bookkeeping at your bank than you do with the women that no doubt work directly for Bostonpump.  Those women know what you ordered, the ones at the bank could not even guess.  As a further obstacle, I can tell you as an Information Technology Manager, I am sure that women in a bank environment would risk their job by surfing penis enlargement sites on the payroll.

Finally, if you setup PayPal so that you have money in your paypal account rather than authorizing Paypal to draft your bank account there is no connection between your bank and a paypal payee.  Your bank issues $200 to paypal that is held by paypal.  later you spent $200 or less and paypal pays from your paypal account and your bank is not involved.

PS:Trust me, men with 10 inch penises try to enlarge them.  If you don't believe me just check out thunderer.com
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: bodoo2u on April 24, 2007, 09:17:13 PM
Hawk,

I hear ya, man. Thanks for the Paypal advice. I still think the company owner should do something about having a different name appear on the statement; lots of companies do it.

I guess I'm not all that upset anymore. I eagerly look forward to receivng the product and getting started, especially after reading about the results that some of the other guys on the forum have achieved. I'm about 80-degrees to the right and two years into the disease.

Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on April 25, 2007, 08:31:01 AM
Boodoo,

Your concerns are reasonable - but one thing we do is live in embarrassment and fear - a LOT. I am glad that you overcame your fear to take care of yourself.

Tim
Title: New - Some Advice
Post by: allj on April 25, 2007, 09:55:41 PM
Let me introduce myself:
My name is Alan. I'm a 60 year old clinical social worker who has been married for 38 yrs. I live in MA.
I have been reading this forum for 6 months – ever since my life took a sad turn. I have appreciated all the advice and camaraderie on the site and need to ask a few questions.
I won't get into the details of what my penis looks like. Suffice it to say it grosses me out. I had an ultrasound. My urol, Michael O'Leary from Brigham Women's in Boston, said that I have mostly scar tissue but have some plaque that isn't calcified yet. I am taking l-arginine, l-carnitine, pentox, and cialis. I am arguing with my insurance about a Soma. I'll buy a VED from Boston Pumps if I don't get approved.
1. If I have to buy a pump, are the size tubes I need a 1.5, 1.75 and 2"?
-Are contour design tubes better than standard shaped ones?
2. Would you folks recommend topical Magnesium Sulfate or other topicals?
3. Is there consensus on whether traction devices are as effective as a VED? Do you have to wear this device under your clothes all day or do you use it like the VED?
4. I enjoy pleasing my wife as much as I enjoy being satisfied. With the bend at the bottom and top and the bulge in the middle, it's not the same. Does anyone use penis extenders http://www.cyberskin.com/product_detail.asp?PID=0832-7&CatID=9 ?
5. Any other advice?

I haven't seen any improvements with the meds and hoping a device does something.
Much appreciated.  Alan
Title: Alan
Post by: Liam on April 26, 2007, 11:00:12 AM
It is my understanding insurance covers VEDs for ED not for Peyronies Disease.  Check this out.  I don't think i would be a stretch (no pun intended) for a doctor to write an Rx with this diagnosis and treatment.

I don't believe anything on the surface will really help.  There may be some substances that have a palliative effect.  This is my opinion.  And if I heard there was a chance something would work (that made it through my BS filter), I would try it.

For my the problem with the "wang-dang-doodle stretchers" (traction) is the time needed to wear it.  I tried it and it helped the "turtle effect" (imagine the head of the turtle going back into its shell) when flaccid.  However, I was sitting at home while using it.  There is no way to use this unless you don't have to be around anyone.  You also need to check it every hour because of the tubing noosed around the old "Tom Dooley".  I think it could possibly work, if, you can wear it long enough. 

Another point comparing TDs with VEDs is a VED stretches in all directions (it pumps you up ::::Austrian accent::::).  The TD applies only a longitudinal stretch.  The longitudinal stretch is maintained for much longer, though.  I presume you've read about Dr. Levine doing the study on TDs and Peyronies Disease.

I can't understand how a penis extender will fit over the curve.  Also, how much stimulation would you receive?  I know thats not always the point.  It is a consideration though.

Good Luck and Welcome!

Liam
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices versus extender et all
Post by: Old Man on April 26, 2007, 02:28:14 PM
Liam and Alan:

Liam, you have hit upon the magic words for the VED. The overall stretching, lengthwise and in girth provided by the VED is far advanced over the lengthwise stretching only of the extenders. The extenders have their place, but as you say, how can one wear the devices and carry on a normal life in public i.e. such as an office environment. Can't imagine being out in public with the added baggage showing through one's pants.

Alan: As Liam says, consider all possibilities of what each device can and will do for you. Also, most insurance companies will pay at least a part of the cost of a VED when RX'd by a doctor for ED. Peyronies Disease is another matter. The diagnosis code must be the proper on in any case before any insurance company will kick in costs, etc.

Old Man.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Kimo on April 26, 2007, 02:48:19 PM
Hey Guy's,,my ins paid for my VED only because my Doc wrote them a letter stating that peyronies had caused my ED,,,,most ins will pay for it if it's under ED,,not peyronies.  My ins paid for my devise in full, so i got the best one available........kimo
Title: Boston Pumps tubes
Post by: allj on April 26, 2007, 07:49:52 PM
Thanks for your responses. The VED is definitely it. I am having trouble getting insurance to pay because I have an HMO and can't get the Soma in network. Even with the bad press I still may go with Boston Pumps - maybe get 2 day shipping. Has anyone gotten or has anyone heard about how the contoured tubes from Boston Pumps work? Alan
Title: Local Medical Equipment Provider
Post by: Liam on April 27, 2007, 05:50:16 AM
I got my Augusta Medical VED from a local medical equipment business not directly from Augusta Medical.  This might be an "end run" for you.   
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: allj on April 27, 2007, 07:58:25 PM
Thanks for the suggestion. I tried calling around and couldn't find a retailer. According to Augusta there is no one in MA that their distributor sells to. I'll know in a few days whether the appeal to my insurance provider is approved. Alan
Title: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Tim468 on April 29, 2007, 02:14:52 PM
A quick report on my VEDs

Bostom pumps worked fine with me in sending, billing etc. No problems at all.

I did not get the contoured cylinder, I got the regular cylinder (image one at the bottom of the post). My complaint about that is that it seems to dig into my pubic region at higher pressures. The rounded edge  is a bit uncomfortable.

OTOH, the "sleeve master" (image 2) I got that goes with the largest cylinder has worked wonderfully at being comofortable, and keeping my penis in, and my scrotum out, of the cylinder!

The cylinder I got through a site that sells exotic sex gear, including cylinders, has been more comfortable, primarily because it has a wider flange at the bas (the stockroom.com). It was more costly, but for a middle sized cylinder, I like the flange better than the Bostom Pump alternative.

Tim
Title: The other image (number 1)
Post by: Tim468 on April 29, 2007, 02:16:54 PM
Here is the cylinder that cuts into me a bit from Boston Pumps.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: bodoo2u on April 29, 2007, 03:17:30 PM
Tim,

Thanks for the info on the Bostonpump cylinder that will cut into me. I guess I can wait 11 days and counting for a product that might cause me pain upon reciept and use. LOL.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: newguy on April 30, 2007, 02:30:45 AM
I'm considering purchasing a bostonpump unit and am intending to follow the 3-Cylinder Vacuum Therapy Protocol. My penis circumference is 5.5inches, which I assume means I need a cylinder 1.75 in size (5.5 / 3.1416 = 1.75). However, according to the BostonPump site table, I should be using a cyliner 2 1/4 in size:

4 3/4" ------ 1 1/2"
5" ------ 1 3/4"

5 1/4" ------ 2"

5 1/2" ------ 2 1/4"

5 3/4" ------ 2 1/2"

6"------ 2 3/4"

6 1/4" ------ 3"

6 1/2" ------ 3 1/4"

6 3/4" ------ 3 1/2"

7" ------ 3 3/4"

http://www.bostonpump.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=2


1)Can anyone clarify this situation for me?

2)Can anyone recommend which 3 sized cylinders I should purchase for the small, medium and large stages of this process?



Title: Two Thoughts on Tube Measurement
Post by: Liam on April 30, 2007, 09:07:46 AM
Just reading I can think of two reasonable possibilities for the discrepency.  The company may be refering to outside diameter and you (more correctly for your purposes) are using inside diameter.  This theory is reliant on the thickness of the tube wall.

Another thought is the company is allowing a "safety margin".  After all, we don't want the "serpent" to get stuck  ;).

I love a mystery.  OK I'm taking off my hat, extinguishing my Meerschaum pipe and laying my magnifying glass aside.

I'll leave the recommendations to the pros.

Liam
Title: Re: VED cylinder diameter
Post by: Old Man on April 30, 2007, 10:43:29 AM
newguy:

My recommendation to you about the cylinder size is this: just make sure that you are using the inside diameter sizes when you purchase the cylinders. It would be best to determine from the company prior to the purchase which sizes you want or need based on your physical dimensions.

As Liam states, you will need to allow for expansion of the penis while pumping, but the small cylinder should be sized so that your penis will be confined more than the two larger cylinders. This to help "orient" your penis to become straighter while doing the exercise therapy.

There are guys on the forum that have made their own and should be able to give you some insight on how they determined the sizes they are using.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: newguy on April 30, 2007, 12:00:04 PM
Thanks for your posts guys. I have emailed bostonpump about this issue, so if/when I hear back from them, I'll be sure to help solve this conumdrum :).

I've been reading posts here for a few days now and it's proved to be a treasure trove of advice and opinion for me.  A little history: When I was around 15 years old I accidentally caused trauma to my penis. As a result of this a swelling developed about a third of he way up on the left side. This then progressed to a bend which has remained ever since (i'm now 26), though I can't feel any hard lumps. I do not think my such as an extreme one (maybe a 30 degree angle and a 'little indentation' on the left side, which very occasionally 'buckles' during sex in part due to the angle --> another worry), and I do not have trouble gaining an erection. I am eager to experiment with ways of making the problem less apparent. The curve occurs very suddenly so in some ways this creates a more dramtic look than someone with a natural curve.

From reading through the forum, it seems to me that injections pose their own problems and probably shouldn't be used as an initial treatment for someone in my situation. Supplements too, due to me living with this issue for over 10 years, would probably not be the best treatment. I am somewhat encouraged by the level of success some of you have had with VED's though. As my case is not as dramatic as some and the indentation that noticeable, I am hopeful that this treatment will be appropriate for me. When I've purchased the pump I will be sure to keep for all informed of my progress.

One question: Is there a gallery section of penis pics before and after various treatments? I think it's something that would give hope to people trying out various treatments.

ADDED: I am a little wary of the bostonpump site since it only appears to belinked to from a helpful of sex sites and some of the site pages, such as the company info one are incomplete which doesn't fill me with confidence:

http://www.bostonpump.com/index.asp?PAGEACTION=COMPANY

I am eager to buy a quality three cylinder VED (though i don't mind buying the cylinders seperately) without prescription and preferably without building it myself.. 
Title: sizing
Post by: Tim468 on May 01, 2007, 09:12:41 AM
Boston Pump is in the dubious business of penis enlargement. Therefore they recommend a cylinder that is larger than what you have to allow room for growth. Their recommendations are irrelevant when it comes to the protocol that we use here.

My advice is to chose your cylinder sizes, order them and get going. The 1.5 inch diameter size sounds right for a "small" cylinder for you to start with, because the whole idea is that you are confined and thus forced straighter. In a roomy cylinder you have room to bend, and the straightening effect is lost.

So get a 1.5, a 1.75 and a 2.0 and get going!

However, I have found that my Boston Pump cylinder with the sleeve is very nice, but the regular one cuts into me a bit. I like the one from "The Stockroom.com" better.

All of these sites are related to sex, and so expect sexually themed materials there, along with hype about penis enlargement. Finally, "Good Vibrations" out of SF is very good, and sells high quality cylinders as well.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: allj on May 01, 2007, 07:51:30 PM
fortunately my insurance has agreed to pay for a somaerect. I pay about a $1000 a month for insurance. I am also getting some magnesium sulfate cream and taking pentox, cialis, l-carnitine. Hope my expectations that improvements are expected and warranted.  Alan
Title: Re: Cylinder sizes
Post by: Angus on May 02, 2007, 12:02:46 AM
 
  I fully agree with Tim's recommendations on cylinder sizes. For the small cylinder, it should be 1/8 or 1/4 inch smaller than penis diameter. 1/8 inch smaller would be best. If the penis is 1 5/8 inches across then you should get the 1 1/2 inch cylinder and so on, as we are talking about ID or inside diameters. This will give a firm but still comfortable fit for small cylinder useage. 
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: voulezvous on May 02, 2007, 01:17:58 PM
OK...enough already on cylinder sizes (kidding).

I'm actually writing to pose another issue which has to do with sizes as well.

I've seen many, many references over the months to concerns over changes in penis length / width as a result or "byproduct" of Peyronies Disease. It is clearly a big deal to all of us men whether or not we like it. I did a search on extenders & found posts which had to do with the ones that stretch the afflicted area but I didn't see any discussion about the use of actual extensions to be used during sex as a way to enhance your partners pleasure.

Now I realize that technically this has nothing to do with Peyronies Disease & VED's or extenders but it obviously has something to do with what I think we all share in the area of self-esteem & alternatives to our condition. Of course there are numerous (in fact, tons) of web sites that sell these products but I would prefer to trust my fellow sufferers about recommendations & experiences.

I would appreciate any feedback that might be shared on this topic. We all wish & pray for a "magic bullet" that will make our sex lives more satisfying. I am NOT talking about dildos here. But I do wonder what kind of "success" anyone has had by using a penis extension to make up for lost inches.

Thanks.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: newguy on May 02, 2007, 01:25:16 PM

I followed Tim's advice :). Hopefully it won't take long for the Pump to arrive. I'll be sure to keep you guys informed of my progress (or lack of). Out of interest and partly in line with the below post, has anyone combined using a penis extension/stretch device AND a pump over the same time period? A two pronged approach if you will.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 02, 2007, 03:18:30 PM
Note to newguy and others:

The following is only my opinion as an older guy who has been "around the Horn" in life to some degree. Penis extensions IMHO belong in the category of "sex toys", but they do have their place in certain circumstances such as: in cases where a man has lost a part of his penis because of some medical malady, physical trauma like an accident or any other trauma in which length was lost. However, in most cases like this a normal climax and orgasm is most likely impossible. But, with the extension, a man can successfully sexually satisfy his partner. This allows the partner to have sexual enjoyment even though the man does not have the capability to enjoy his side of the deal, so to speak.

Now, whether or not an extension used in conjunction with a VED can or will produce successful sexual relations and enjoyment, that would be based on each individual case. Not knowing the full circumstances in any case, using both IMHO would be up to each person based on their case. I am not aware of anyone who has posted with regard to using a VED and an extension at the same time.

Others on the forum may had experience with regard to this subject.

Old Man

Title: Re: voulezvous - Penis extensions
Post by: Hawk on May 02, 2007, 04:18:48 PM
I have no experience on this topic but I am very skeptical about how satisfying this would be to a woman.  First I think it would not feel real, secondly I think that a woman would feel a bit unsatisfied know a her mate could not feel or enjoy her.  My guess is that there are many other forms of sexual touch and interaction that would be at least as satisfying if not more so than a penis extension, but to each their own.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: voulezvous on May 02, 2007, 05:18:37 PM
Thanks for the prompt reply, guys. Your thoughts parallel mine for the most part.

I can't say that I entirely agree that the use of extensions by Peyronies Disease-affected men is not a very real way of releiving much of the psychological issues we face. True enough, there is no way an artificial extension of any real part of our body will create pleasurable sensation for a man. And no extension will help to reduce curvature or change anatomy. Yet, let's face it, the reason so many men continue to ask & seek advice of this site is centered around lost inches. If it is just about our pleasure then any penetration will do.

We continue to write about other ways to satisfy our partner (oral, manual stimulation, etc.). Ideally, these methods can be utilized by both genders. I think that any woman who can accept & understand her man's affliction deserves to be honored with the best lovemaking techniques we can offer. Consenting adults should always be creative in my humble opinion. Again, I do not think that a discussion of dildo options is appropriate (or maybe it is) but there is a lot of hype in the sex toy world about the "naturalness" of the extension choices. I do not trust these sites to tell me the real truth & I certainly don't expect to see any "made for Peyronie's" models advertised. We all know that the use of VED's was looked upon strictly as in the sex toy category a few years ago. Now we have ongoing exchanges about best / worst as well as how to use them.

I hope that there are one or two members here who have tried the extension route & can provide some insights. Dare I even ask - any opinions from women?













Title: Victoria's Secret Condoms
Post by: Liam on May 03, 2007, 07:05:15 AM
With underwire support for Peyronies Disease!   :o

I just can't help myself
Title: Dildos, extensions, extenders and VEDs
Post by: Tim468 on May 03, 2007, 09:44:25 AM
Wow - what a topic!

Here is my personal take on these topics:

1) There are NO data to guide our choices here regarding any of these things. No one has ever studied these issues in a scientific manner. Therefore, all of this boils down to opinions. However, there are data in the sexual literature that do talk to the use of toys, and the pleasure that they might bring to a couple. Distilled down to a single point, if both members of a couple are so inclined, then they will have fun with those toys. Using toys runs the real risk of damaging the self esteem of those who use them if they are senstive or feeling inadequate (ie "I can't please her any more - I have to use a toy").

2) Extensions do not hold a prominent place in the pantheon of sex toys for a reason. They do not stay on well; most women like to feel their partner inside of them. Sure, having her partner use a  dildo on her can be exciting, different and a thrill - but for intercourse, this is often more about connecting, than it is about a certain feeling physically. With the caveats that they do not work that well, and are more distracting than pleasing for many women, anyone should feel free to use them, no matter how large or straight you are, since they might be fun. I think it is nearly impossible that any man would "have to" use them to please his partner.

3) Extenders are not the same as "extensions". At least here, when we talk about extenders we are talking about traction devices that tug the penis into an allegedly longer and straighter length. It is exciting to me that two studies are ongoing to see if this works, one by Dr. Levine in Chicago, and one allegedly being done by Augusta medical devices with a local urologist (which is much less likely to be published in a peer reviewed journal, based on the track record of the investigators). [This is an error on my part (thanks, Chad!) -  I meant that in Augusta they are doing a trial on the VED - and I am not so sure it is being done well.

4) VEDs probably work, but desparately need to be studied in a more scientific manner. Since we talk about the benefits of them plenty here, I will not reiterate those arguments.

Tim
Title: Re: Victoria's Secret Condoms
Post by: voulezvous on May 03, 2007, 04:16:20 PM
Quote from: Liam on May 03, 2007, 07:05:15 AM
With underwire support for Peyronies Disease!   :o

I just can't help myself

Maybe you've hit on something! Sounds like a promising venture.

After all, this section is about "other mechanical devices", right?
Title: VED use
Post by: allj on May 04, 2007, 10:12:11 PM
After filing a grievance, my insurance paid for a somaerect.
A couple of questions about it's use.
1. I am using the smallest tube to start. Should I let all the negative pressure out before repumping -which means removing the device from my penis- or just let the penis deflate some before pumping? The latter movement is more like stretching back and forth the former is more like tugging.
2. is 3-10 seconds really optimal? and should the VED be used once or more a day?
Thanks for your help. Alan
Title: Get a Good Pump
Post by: Liam on May 04, 2007, 10:25:32 PM
The goal is to get the best erection possible.  Use whichever method works for you. 
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 04, 2007, 11:32:53 PM
allj:

Alan, if you will go to this site, you will be able to see the protocol for the 26 week three cylinder therapy for Peyronies Disease. 

www.vacuumtherapy.org.

Click on the extras link in the left margin of the home page to reveal the protocol and notes pertaining to it.
This protocol is being used in a study using the three cylinder VEDs for Peyronies Disease. The results are supposed to be out sometime this year. I, for one, am looking forward to seeing the final analysis, etc. 

If you are going only for erections, you should follow the instructions that came with the Somaerect. The package contents should have included instructions on how to use the entire three cylinders (if it came with three, and I believe it does). Also, it should have a video or instructions brochure, etc.  In any case, your should be extremely careful not to use too much pressure at any time.

If you so desire, give me a PM with your email address and I will forward you the 26 week Soma Correct protocol that came with the VED before it was pulled from the market by Augusta Medical. It is the same as the one at the vacuum therapy org site.

I would suggest that you only use the VED once per day until you have mastered a plan that you are comfortable with in your exercises. You can "overdo" the therapy and it can cause further trauma, so be careful at all costs. Once per day usually is all that one needs for Peyronies Disease therapy.

Old Man
Title: Pressure on plaque
Post by: bodoo2u on May 05, 2007, 08:47:25 PM

Hello Old Man,

I know it's difficult to convey in words, but how much pressure is too much. I could only take enough pressure for the needle on my gauge to budge just a little. I would think that the plaque area is supposed to hurt a little so we will know it's stretching. Mine was sort of a stinging feeling. Is that how it is supposed to feel?
Title: Re: Amount of pressure to pump
Post by: Old Man on May 07, 2007, 02:48:02 PM
BD2U:

That is a very good question. There is no set rule that can be stated as to how much pressure is too much. You have to be your own judge of what is or is not too much pressure. My rule of thumb was that if I felt any discomfort or pain that I would stop pumping any higher pressure. Also, I worked up to the higher pressures slowly, only adding a little more as time went on until I could tolerate the higher ones.

The plaque/indented areas can and will hurt with the pressure of pumping up. Again, you must be your own judge as to whether or not you can stand the higher pressure. As you know, a natural erection depends on your arterial blood flow and the proper sexual stimulation to produce it. In using the VED for Peyronies Disease therapy, the negative pressure "pulls" the blood into the penile chambers and in doing so the flow can be greater than with a natural erection process. So, just use a slow and methodical routine with low pressures and gradually work up the pressure as your body adjusts to the added flow, etc.

Again, pump carefully in moderation so as to not overdo it. It is best to work slowly and remember that the Peyronies Disease symptoms probably came on slowly and will have to go away slowly, etc.

Hope the above helps. If you have further thoughts and/or questions, just fire away and I will endeavor to answer them for you.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: howcanthisbe on May 08, 2007, 03:30:05 PM
ok guys, ive finally decided to buy a VED pump. Ive decided its time to take action as my dent area seems to be getting worse. Now the only problem is getting the money to get the pump, im saving up for a down payment on a car because I gotta have that to go to school. Ive heard alot of talk about about the osborm pump and soma, but is there no cheap alternative pump that is effective? Im talking about something for 100 bucks or under, because realistically right now I cant afford anything higher. Anyone know of a good cheap but quality pump? Thanks
Title: Re: Cheap VED's
Post by: Hawk on May 08, 2007, 04:28:48 PM
HCTB,

My view is that you either go with the 3 cylinder protocol or you  don't.  If you do, you can build one.  All the info for that has been provided by Angus and Tim.

If you go with one cylinder then most any pump will do until it breaks.  A vacuum is a vacuum.  Your penis only responds to the negative pressure that surrounds it.  It makes no difference if what or how the pressure is made as long as you can control it.  A cheap VED may break but you can buy a lot of replacements for       $500.00 (cost of an Augusta unit).  You can also make a single cylinder VED as well.

Avoid the ultra cheap that may have a poor seal, or sharp plastic edges.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: howcanthisbe on May 08, 2007, 05:19:43 PM
thanks alot Hawk. A 3 cylinder is different size tubes you can change? If so I guess I would need that right? Im so glad to know that I do not have to spend 500 dollars to buy a pump,lol. I will do some research and find a quality cheap pump then.
Title: Re: Make your own VED
Post by: Old Man on May 08, 2007, 06:59:22 PM
HCTB:

Take Hawk's suggestion and make your own VED. Angus and Dr. Tim both have made their own VED out of good medical quality products that can be purchased at a much lessor price than the Somaerect or other brands.

Search the thread dealing with this subject and you can see basically how the two of them developed and made their own unit. Angus, I am sure, can fill you in on the details. Dr. Tim has posted several sites that have medical quality tubes and related VED items. He has stated several points of interest in making your own VED also.

I am with Hawk about using the three cylinder method of therapy. It appears to be one of the best protocols that come into being as far as I know.

Good luck to you and don't wait too long to begin your VED therapy. The longer you wait, the more you will have to overcome after starting the therapy.

Old Man
Title: Link to making VED's post
Post by: Angus on May 08, 2007, 07:31:37 PM
   Here's the link to the home made VED's post. Anyone with a few bucks, basic hand tools and does careful work can make these. Expensive VED's and home made VED's share the same basic characteristics: they are hollow plastic tubes that produce controlled vacuum around a penis. If you have time, a little place to work and little money, these may be for you.

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,25.msg2539.html#msg2539
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: howcanthisbe on May 08, 2007, 10:35:32 PM
wow guys, make a VED? Im a little afraid I might mess something up. Are they really that easy to make? Im really sloppy when it comes to making stuff, im not sure if I could make one or not. What if I make one critical mistake? Plus that I do not have any tools or even a way to get any until 2 weeks when I get my car. Like Hawk said at first a pump is a pump right? If I find a cheap 3 cylinder pump shouldnt I be ok? Thanks
Title: Pump
Post by: Liam on May 08, 2007, 11:01:47 PM
Buy One!  I admire you guys who are handy.  I'm not.  I think its the cylinder size everyone thinks is important.  Just ask yourself, "How much is the old ringdinger worth?"  Sell some plasma. ;)

Liam
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: howcanthisbe on May 09, 2007, 08:54:08 AM
sorry guys but is a 3 cylinder a size or is at 3 different cylinders?
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: howcanthisbe on May 09, 2007, 10:05:17 AM
guys I was just thinking and if the VED stretches the whole penis wont it stretch the other side longer the the side with scar tissue? I mean the scar tissue it seems wouldnt stretch as fast as the regular part of the penis right? So couldnt this cause a curve? Has this ever happened to anyone?
Title: VED Questions
Post by: Steve on May 09, 2007, 10:42:41 AM
HCTB

Let's see if I can jump in here...

The 3-cylinder VED is a VED with 3 different sized cylinders.  The SOMA unit uses a design that 'nests' the cylinders inside one another so that the pump attaches to the largest cylinder, and then you can put both of the smaller diameter cylinders inside it to get the smallest 'size', just the medium sized to get the middle 'size', and use the largest cylinder alone for the largest size.  I'm not sure how Tim and Angus designed theirs, but I'm sure you could also use 3 separate cylinders that can be attached one at a time to a vacuum pump.  The only drawback is that you'd need a sealing ring on each cylinder (the SOMA uses a ring on only the largest cylinder, but was recently re-designed to eliminate pinching  :o when the smaller cylinders are in use).

Regarding your stretching question...the idea of the VED pump and cylinders is that the cylinder holds the penis straight (more or less) while the vacuum is applied.  This keeps the unaffected side from stretching out (because the penis can't bend) while concentrating the stretch on the side with the plaque.  I'm trying to think of a good analogy, but can't at the moment...I'm sure Liam can chime in with something  ;D.  The smaller the cylinder, the more the penis is constrained and the more stretch is applied to the affected side.  As you move up to the larger cylinder (follow the vacuumtherapy.org protocol that Old Man suggests), the penis is allowed to 'fill out' more to work on the indentations.

Good luck with your new project, and let us know how it turns out.

Steve
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: howcanthisbe on May 09, 2007, 11:46:05 AM
thanks steve. So your saying the small cylinder makes it where the normal penis tissue cant fully stretch while the scar tissue can? Also doesnt this matter how big your penis is in the first place? I see what your saying, but what if I dont have a curve except for a small upward curve, im mainly just trying to get rid of the dent/wasting that is growing and creating a hinge effect.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 09, 2007, 12:16:53 PM
HCTB:

The three cylinder VED therapy is really the best way to go. Steve has said it perfectly as to the design and operation of the VED unit.

If you can't make your own and have to buy one, try EBay to see if you can find a SomaErect or Soma Correct there. Either unit will work. The Soma must have an updated sealing insert to eliminate the pinching effect though. (Available from Augusta Medical) EBay does occasionnaly have VEDs for sale. The Osbon Esteem unit would make a good suitable substitute if you can't the other two on EBAY. That is the VED that I used to correct my Peyronies Disease symptoms early on before the Soma Correct and Erect came on board.

Old Man.

Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: howcanthisbe on May 09, 2007, 03:12:08 PM
Is this the one your talking about Oldman?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Impotence-aid-New-Osbon-ErecAid-Vacuum-Therapy-System_W0QQitemZ180084642411QQcategoryZ82615QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWINQ3aPOST0Q3aRECOQ3aBINQQcmdZViewItem

The Osborn? It says it has varios cylinder sizes but I do not see them in the pics they show. This one is 179.99 which is possible for me to afford eventually. So the only 3 cylinder pumps are the ones you mentioned below?
Title: A Thousand Words
Post by: Liam on May 09, 2007, 04:34:52 PM
(http://www.augustams.com/images/somacorrect_lg.jpg)
This is not an endorsement of the product.


Stretching--- Imagine two bungees one longer than the other but the shorter one (this represents the scar tissue) is stretched so it is even with the longer one (this represents normal tissue).


Title: VED questions
Post by: Tim468 on May 09, 2007, 05:01:37 PM
Dear HCTB,

As they might say in court sometimes, "asked and answered". Frankly, I am confused by some of your questions, since the answers to them are abundantly apparent in the previous posts in this thread, and even in the answers that you have been given to specific questions.

This is not even close to rocket science. The three cylinders are designed to do different things, and the idea is that you start with the narrowest diameter tube, and gradually increase to the two larger diameter tubes over time. The schedule for doing that has been posted, and links to other forms of it have been posted, and mentioned more than once, in responses to questions.

For instance in posts 889 (in this thread), I wrote about the different size cylinders that one can buy from Boston pump. In post 891, Angus wrote about the different diameter cylinders available, and how to decide what size to chose to start with. Given the detail, and amount of effort put into these descriptions, along with posts suggesting reading the "VED Thread" on the beginners board, I am feeling confused by a question like "sorry guys but is a 3 cylinder a size or is at 3 different cylinders?".

I do feel that there is information that can answer the questions that you are asking, HCTB, right in this thread, all of which are posted in the last two months, and easily found and accessible. It is tiring to type the same information again and again, when the thoughts that you really need to access are right here, and you are being asked to look at them.

For instance, Hawk wrote "HCTB, My view is that you either go with the 3 cylinder protocol or you  don't.  If you do, you can build one.  All the info for that has been provided by Angus and Tim." (post 906 yesterday)

Old Man wrote, "HCTB: Take Hawk's suggestion and make your own VED. Angus and Dr. Tim both have made their own VED out of good medical quality products that can be purchased at a much lessor price than the Somaerect or other brands.

Search the thread dealing with this subject and you can see basically how the two of them developed and made their own unit. Angus, I am sure, can fill you in on the details. Dr. Tim has posted several sites that have medical quality tubes and related VED items. He has stated several points of interest in making your own VED also.

I am with Hawk about using the three cylinder method of therapy. It appears to be one of the best protocols that come into being as far as I know."

HCTB, to me, these posts are well written and direct, and not easily missed for their point or content. For instance, both seem to make clear to me that the protocol uses THREE CYLINDERS, and that the "3 cylinder technique" is not some arcane language that refers to a gauge or diameter of the tube in use. It means that one uses three cylinders, and the reasoning behind doing that is well argued elsewhere in this thread.

Similarly, it seems clear to me that you have cheaper alternatives to use than the Somaerect, since that is expensive, and one can get the same effect in other ways (ie getting the individual cylinders and a single pump that is not electric). Again, this is not too hard, so I am confused why it is that you seem to be having trouble with the ideas. So, I have some questions for you:

Have you read the "Newly Diagnosed" Boards that others have recommended that you read? Here is the link: https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,439.0.html

Have you read the previous posts in THIS THREAD carefully to see if you can answer your questions before posting them here?

Have you read the protocol for cylinder size use? (I think that one is a bit confusing, since it refers to cylinders based on an "A, B, C" labeling instead of diameter - but it is not that confusing).

I believe that self-care in the single most important part of our human and spiritual growth. To take care of ourselves requires that we pay attention, and if we have trouble with that, we ask for help. I am concerned for you when I see you asking questions that seem to have already been answered in this thread. Is there some way we can better make what we want to say more available to you?

Thanks for taking the time to read this,

Tim



Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 09, 2007, 05:29:39 PM
HCTB:

No, that one is known as the Classic Model. It has three pieces, two of which are connected with a plastic tube. It becomes very unhandy to handle while doin the Peyronies Disease exercises.

You need to stick with the Osbon Esteem model which is one piece when the cylinder and pump are mated together.

The Soma Erect and Correct are also one piece when mated together, etc.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: howcanthisbe on May 09, 2007, 06:04:07 PM
Sorry Tim, I did not read that link and will do so now. I guess I will have to do what you suggested and buy a cheap quality pump and switch cylinders. OldMan thanks, that sucks it isnt the good one. Liam thanks for the bungee comparsion, it makes sense,lol. I just wanted to make sure I wouldn't be worsening the curve. I guess I dont have any more questions, I will have to figure something out thats cheap. Thanks guys.
Title: Medicool VED?
Post by: Steve on May 18, 2007, 08:54:39 AM
I was looking through my Diabetes magazine and noticed (as I have in the past, it just never clicked before) that they advertise a "medical grade" VED that may be a good option for someone who doesn't want the toy variety, but doesn't want to spend the big bucks on the Augusta unit, and is uncomfortable with making their own.

These devices are single cylinder only, and available in both manual and electric models.  I believe that Old Man has a protocol developed for single-cylinder VEDs that could probably be used.

Does anyone have any experience with these Medicool devices?  The link is: http://www.medicool.com/diabetes/diabetes_sexaid.php (http://www.medicool.com/diabetes/diabetes_sexaid.php) if anyone wants to check them out.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 18, 2007, 11:40:32 AM
Steve:

Yes, I do have an exercise protocol using the old style one cylinder model VEDs. It will work for most any VED of that style. In my case, I used the old Osbon Classic manual VED. My experience has taught me that a manual VED is much better for Peyronies Disease exercises because you have instant control of the amount of pressure you use. The battery models can sometimes fail and get one into trouble getting it shut off.

BTW, the old Osbon Classic model VED can be obtained on line from some sites for as low as $175.00.
IMHO, they are better some of the other good quality units. Encore makes one that is fairly good, but I don't think it is as good as the old Classic VED. I have the Classic, Esteem, Soma Correct, and at one time a sex toy model. Of these units, I prefer the Esteem manual for my purposes. The Somaerect can be used either for ED or Peyronies Disease using the 26 week protocol that was originally used with the Soma Correct. The Somaerect is not now marketed for Peyronies Disease so the protocol is not included in the package.

I will try to locate the web site for the Osbon Classic and post it for those who might be interested in looking at that model in the interest of economy.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 18, 2007, 11:53:22 AM
Note to all:

Here is one site that has the old Osbon Classic manual model VED for $199.00.

www.intimate-health.com/erecaid.htm

Will try to locate other sites. Also, sometimes, they can be found on EBay. One of my friends found one last year for less than $100.00 including shipping and was a new unit.

Old Man
Title: FastSize
Post by: dahc on May 18, 2007, 12:06:02 PM
I ordered the FastSize extender after a telephone consultation with Dr. Levine. I've had it about 3 weeks and I've already lost 2 metal hinge inserts while wearing the contraption under clothes during the day. :( I have to say that people at FS have been pretty nice and are sending me replacement parts without charge. The tech at FS suggested using Locktite on screws that go into the hinge. :-\

I'm committed to trying this for 6 months, Dr. Levine said that his study group all had length & girth gains. He said only 10% to 30% change in curvature, which is OK with me. I'm more worried about lost length.  :'(

Chad
Title: Re: Chad - Fastsize
Post by: Hawk on May 18, 2007, 01:01:47 PM
Chad,

I am interested in a write-up on time involved, inconvienience, restriction in clothing and activity, actual gains, etc.

A few men here have used these (or a knock off brand) but few have stuck with them or reported on them.

Keep us posted.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: dahc on May 18, 2007, 03:06:34 PM
Hawk,

Dr. Levine told me that the guys that progressed the most wore the extender 6 - 8 hours a day, so I'm going for 8 hours. You're not supposed to wear it for more than 2 consecutive hours at a time with at least 5 minute break in between. So it is inconvenient to sneak off to the bathroom every 2 hours. It's somewhat uncomfortable wearing it under clothing, more so sitting than standing. I bought several pair of boxer underware made of a stretchy jersey material and Dockers pleated pants. I'm fairly slim so it's not too difficult to disguise my usage in relaxed fit pants.

I have to be honest that I've not been measuring, but this week I've noticed my erections are definitely more full. No change in length or curve yet. I suppose it take a while.

I can say that so far the extender is more tolerable than the Pentox I started 2 days ago. I hope the side effects fade from that will fade. :P
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 18, 2007, 05:25:03 PM
Hey all:

This is a follow up to my earlier post today relative places to buy the medical quality cheaper priced VEDs.

I did a Google search for this: Osbon Classic erection devices.

It brought up a good list of sites to browse for VEDs. I found one VED from Augusta Medical under the brand of Vitality which sells for less than $100.00. It appears to have the inserts and retainer rings included in the package. So if one searches the web, a good quality unit can be had at a much cheaper price than the Soma erect, etc.

The above is furnished with my usual caveat and disclaimer, etc.

Regards to everyone, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: newguy on May 22, 2007, 10:35:44 AM

My pump and cylinders from bostonpump has FINALLY arrived.  It took the company around two weeks to dispatch the pump and cylinders though I wasn't informed that there would be any delay (it states on the site that they WILL inform of any delays). Once dispatched it was another 10 days before it arrived in the UK and I was charged a £30 ($60) customs charge too. Nice.

Anyway, I have discovered that the 1.5" is simply far too small, but the 1.75 and 2" ones are fine. Therefore I'm going to buy a 2.25" cylinder with 1.75 being small, 2" medium and 2.25" large. Does anyone know of a website in the UK selling 2.25" cylinders  that'd work with the bostonpump? I really don't want to wait weeks for bostonpump to send one cylinder and receive another customs charge, so it'd make life much more straightforward for me if i cn hold of the cylinder from a UK vendor. Can anyone help?

Complaints aside I'm pleased to be making a proactive move to help with my condition. I'm still interested in how well a VED and fastsize combo would work, but fear that an overkill approach could do more harm than good.

Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: bodoo2u on May 22, 2007, 11:48:54 AM
Newguy,

You might think that the 1.5-inch is too small, but it's not. I'm more than 6 inches around when erect and it works well for me. Remember that the idea is not to get as fully erect as you would in preparation for intercourse; (I did that inside the 1.5 and it was really too tight) it's to get enough bloodflow to straighten you so that you can stretch the plaque.

If you're less than 6 3/4" around when erect then the 1.5 is not too small. Just make sure you are as flaccid as possible when you try to put it on, and don't forget to re-oil halfway through the session, especially if your veinous. I inflamed the vein that circles my unit just below the head. 

And don't get carried away at the beginning. Perhaps that's how I inflamed that vein.

Good luck.
Title: Re: bodoo2u - 1.5 " cylinder
Post by: newguy on May 22, 2007, 01:47:00 PM
Thanks for sharing your experience with the 1.5inch cylinder. Maybe I was a little premature in my comments. I'll stick with it and see how it goes :). 



Quote from: bodoo2u on May 22, 2007, 11:48:54 AM
Newguy,

You might think that the 1.5-inch is too small, but it's not. I'm more than 6 inches around when erect and it works well for me.
Title: Re: VED's and lubrication
Post by: Old Man on May 22, 2007, 02:09:59 PM
Newguy and BD2:

Both of you are on the right track with the 1.5 inch cylinder. The purpose of that cylinder is like BD2 says, helps keep the penis straight while applying the vacuum pressure. This is supposed to be used only for the first two week period of the 26 week protocol. Then move on to the middle sized cylinder and lastly the larger cylinder. Following the 26 week protocol will in time produce results, if only a small amount, and the protocol has worked for at least some of us.

Now, the secret to using the small cylinder is to use plenty lubricant on your penis and inside the cylinder. Sometimes you have to remove the cylinder when pumping and lube up a bit more to keep the penis and the inside of the cylinder slippery so that there is little if no friction present. Trial and error method seems to be the best approach as to how much lube one needs. So, do that, try what works for you.

Old Man
Title: Cylinder lube tip....
Post by: Angus on May 22, 2007, 08:22:11 PM

  Use a bottle brush to get the lube all the way down the length of the small cylinder. Put lube inside the opening then work it down the cylinder with the brush and this will eliminate lots of frustration while getting used to the VED. This works wonders and gets the lube to the full length of the tube. The bottle brush I have is about 9 inches long with circular bristles on one end about an inch in diameter. Use the same bottle brush for water cleanup and the whole inside of the tube will be fresh for the next round after it's air dried. Never let it be said that VED users don't practice good housekeeping!  ;D
Title: Re: Penile Traction Device
Post by: Toronto on May 27, 2007, 02:16:57 PM
A recent press release from fsPhysioMed states that its mechanical penile traction device, the Extender, has been demonstrated to produce from 10 degree to 45 degree improvements in Peyronie's curvature. Is anyone familiar with such treatment?
Title: PhysioMed
Post by: dahc on May 27, 2007, 04:43:02 PM
Toronto,

PhysioMed and FastSize are the same company. If you go to the FastSize website you'll see it's one of those penis enlarger sites. They are going to have a separate site for P.D. & E.D. patients soon and that's where PhysioMed comes in. A noted P.D. doctor in Chicago, Dr. Levine, is recomending the F.S. extender as part of 3 part strategy to overcome Peyronie's. I've been using the extender and noticed some gain in girth, firmness of erections & a little in length. I haven't noticed any change in curve yet. 
I haven't had the Verapamil injections yet either, which is part of his strategy.

It kind of pisses me off that guys without P.D. may really be able to increase their penis size with one of these things. >:( I'd be happy with my non curved average penis that I had last year. No, I'm not bitter. ::)

Chad
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: allj on May 27, 2007, 08:56:32 PM
Fellow VED users:
I have been using the soma for almost 4 weeks with some success. My bend went from about 45 to about 30 degrees and I regained size. This is enough so that I am able to enjoy myself again when intimate. While I am hoping for better than this, I am aware that there are limitations to hope. If I don't unbend enough at the end of 26 weeks:
1. Should I restart the protocol again?
2. If I do unbend enough, do I have to continue a maintenance protocol?
Also I continue to have some recurrent pain in the head of my penis. Is this likely from active phase of Peyronies Disease or sensitive area/pumping too hard?  Any thoughts are appreciated.
Thanks Alan
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 27, 2007, 10:05:17 PM
Alan:

First, I am happy for that you are seeing some improvements using the Soma VED. You have asked several good questions. You should remember that each and every case of Peyronies Disease is totally different from each other.

With that being said, you should maintain a steady schedule on the 26 week protocol. After you have finished the 26 week cycle and still have Peyronies Disease symptoms, you should repeat the cycle. If you are satisfied with the results of one 26 week cycle, you should develop a maintenance schedule of use with the VED. I maintain at least three weekly cycles of exercise therapy for my Peyronies Disease which, at the moment, seems to be in total remission. The added pressure with the maintenance therapy seems to keep me in real good health with my old "tool". So, I do recommend you keep up the exercise cycles after the 26 week once you are satisfied with the results.

As far as the pain you are experiencing, you should be careful not to overdo the pumping cycles to the point that the pain gets worse. Usually, my recommendation about pain is this, if it hurts, don't do it. Some minor pain can be expected during the VED pumping cycles, but it should not be so bad that it becomes uncomfortable. If it does, quit the pumping cycles until it subsides before resuming them.

Good luck and happy pumping!

Old Man

Title: Re: allen, pumping, maintenance
Post by: Angus on May 28, 2007, 08:27:36 PM

    Good to hear of your improvement Allen. All of what Old Man says is true. I had improvement with the VED and now use it for maintenance. My improvement of the curve took over a year; as Old Man said all cases are different; some will improve in 26 weeks or less, others may take a year or 52 weeks or more. Your body will tell you how long you will need to continue the protocol. This is a stubborn condition to treat or re-mold (to say the least... almost a massive understatement) so adopt a plan to stick with the program for a while to continue your improvement unless acceptable results are seen at 26 weeks. On the pain issue, Old Man is correct again. If it hurts, back off the pressure. With VED therapy I believe "less" is "more" in the sense that VED's used on a regular basis but with a relatively low vacuum produce results. More vacuum than is necessary won't speed the straightening process, but will be somewhat painful and possibly even worsen the condition. A rough analogy could be the fitness training concept of "more reps" with "less weight" (more VED cycles with reasonable vacuum). Let us know how things go with this... and again, thanks for posting the good news.
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: allj on May 29, 2007, 07:37:17 AM
Much appreciated. I'll keep at it. Alan
Title: VED Progress
Post by: Tim468 on May 29, 2007, 09:30:49 AM
I use the VED regularly, and have had mixed results. First, I never really did the 26 week protocol. Rather, I purchased a larger tube about two years ago and irregularly used it, without much in the way of results. After reading here, I purchased a "small" tube and more or less started the protocol. "More or less" because I did not stop and move to a larger cylinder at 3 weeks. Rather, I kept using the small cylinder, since it seemed to be exerting a longitudinal tractiona dn helping my curve.

Unfortunately, it has been good news and bad news. My curve is less, and my erections have been better (though some of that may be due to the Horny Goat Weed and VasoFlow I take), but I have developed a new dent in my left base.

Because of that I have started a modified protocol. I use a small cylinder every night for about 10 minutes. This seems to loosen up my penis enough that it can easily stretch out with a "B" cylinder next. This way, I think I am getting the best of all worlds; a lengthening stretch to start and then a better lateral stretching of the girth in a bigger tube.

I noted last night that a (real) erection right after an about 25 minute session was nearly straight (10-15 degree upwards bend) and had no palpable dent at all. This morning, the dent was back in my AM erection :(

SO, I will keep at it (including resuming a trial run of the protocol in terms of timing for cylinder size changes). It raises several issues:

First, it suggests that use of a cylinder before sex might make sex more "like it used to be" - so there might be a role for that kind of use. This is different than using the VED to get an erection - in that situation, men simply pump up, cinch off the blood flow and remove the cylinder, and have at it. Instead of simply "pumping up", for me there is value in taking some time to have a "session" before sex, even though my spontaneous erections are fine.

Second, for me, there is definitely a role for "maintenace use" of the VED over time. I see that my penis tightens up when I do not regularly use the pump, and my curve and dent worsen. I will continue to use supplements, but for those of us in whom Peyronie's is an active process, continued use rather than "fixing it" is more the norm.

Tim
Title: Re: Highlights of VED's and Other Devices/plaque on topside of penis
Post by: Old Man on June 06, 2007, 10:55:59 AM
Update note:

On a post earlier in this topic, I stated that a report would be given relative the inch or so "vein like" string on the topside of my penis.

Now, after about a year or so using the Soma Correct for Peyronies Disease maintenance and the old Osbon Esteem manual model VEDs for erections, I find that the vein like string no longer exists.

Have no reason to doubt that the constant weekly maintenance schedule of VED therapy has gotten rid of the item, whatever it was.

This is furnished for the information of any/all who might have this situation.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and other Mechanical Devices
Post by: Bentrick on June 13, 2007, 02:14:56 AM
Wow, This is a great forum!  I am 52 and first noticed a bend to the left one year ago.  After reading this forum for a while I now realize that the 1/4" wide band that I had also noticed going from the base of the glans to the base of the penis was probably an early sign that something bad was getting ready to happen.

I am now bent about 30 degrees left and 45 degrees up , and I have a painful plaque/nodule about 1/3 of the way from the tip.  I have been trying the Ionto with the verapamil and the dexamethasone and I am not sure it is helping a lot, but I have not been able to do it regularly. I am now convinced that I need to do it 4 times week regardless of hard it is to do.  More importantly, I have now decided to get a VED and go to work.  I mean, if I am willing to hook whats left of my bent dick to an electric current, why not stick it in a vacuum pump?

It really does make sense, and I appreciate all the info provided here. I will do my part and keep you advised of what happens.  I have a urolgist in my town who seems interested and knowlegeable about Peyronies Disease, and he has offered to do injections, but I hate pain and after reading the comments here I think I will get more aggressive with my own plan.

I have had problems in the past with Plantar Fasciitis that responds best to stretching and massage.  I think the concept of plague forming with vacumm is the way to go , and hopefully the verapamil Ionto will facilitate the collagen restructuring.  Someone suggested that massaging the plague seemed to help - and I think I would agree.  It also seems that things get a little better after I have hard and more frequent erections -- almost like it is trying to straighten itself....  Well,  I intend to help it as soon as I get my hands on a VED. Thanks.
Title: Welcome, Bentrick
Post by: Angus on June 13, 2007, 07:39:23 PM

   Welcome to the forum Bentrick. You have lots of support on this forum and a staggering amount of information is available to you here. The Highlights area provides a quick start to the forum in general, and the search function will help you find specific areas or subjects that you wish to read about. Types, styles and brands of VED's along with therapies have been discussed in this thread and lots of questions about their use answered, but post your questions here when they arise and we'll have answers and thoughts for you. Again, welcome!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Califman on June 16, 2007, 09:41:36 PM
OK.  As I stated in another post, I'm new on here as of today.  Wish I had come upon this site earlier, but oh well.  I'm willing to try anything.  What is the best quality VED?  I don't care about the cost.  Geez, my Acytl runs me 70 bucks for 3 bottles.  This is a one-time cost with some additional purchases for worn parts I suppose.  If it will even restore me back 50% of what I was like 4 years ago (I realize there is no guarantee of that), then $500 is a small price to pay.  I would be willing to predict that the hard part is to persistantly use the thing.  I'm sure it takes some dedication.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Liam on June 16, 2007, 10:31:55 PM
I have been very happy with Augusta Medical. 

No I don't have any connection ;)

Liam
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 16, 2007, 11:19:08 PM
Califman:

I own three different models of VEDs. Two made by the Old Osbon Medical Company (rights to manufacture now owned by Timm Medical Division of Endocare, Inc.) and one by the Augusta Medical Supply company.

Have had good success and good quality of all three. Like Liam, I do not have any interest in either companies, just stating the models I own and have used.

Old Man.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: j on June 30, 2007, 01:41:19 PM
I haven't participated in this forum for a long time.  I walked away partly out of discouragement, partly because I thought I'd said what I had to say.  I won't recap my history except to say I've been dealing with this for years and have concluded that medical science has nothing to offer - except for surgery, which I totally reject. 

However I've continued to read some posts from time to time, and recently decided to take a new direction.  Out of all the therapies discussed here, only the VED seems to me to have a reasonable chance of success.  I conclude that partly on the basis of reports from OM and others over the years, and partly because I feel I've had some success with agressive stretching to hold off Dupuytren's contractures.

So, being a handy guy, I've made a VED with a 1.5 inch cylinder and begun using it. I think the smaller cylinder has the best chance of improving a bend.  It seems to me that a large cylinder might only exacerbate a bend by preferentially stretching the normal side. 

I've reviewed many of the posts on this thread and it seems the real issue is how long to stretch before releasing the vacuum. OM, I believe, suggests multiple stretches of very short duration.  Dr. Levine on the other hand advocates 30 uninterrupted minutes, which seems risky to me.  I've compromised with a session of a couple of 5-minute stretches and a short break in between.  What I'm working on now is reducing the hassle factor - finding the right lubricant and so on - so the procedure becomes simple and quick. 

My expectations are very low. But my expectations for an answer from the health care industry, in my lifetime, are zero.   And I hate giving up.


Title: Re: J - Best Hope
Post by: Liam on June 30, 2007, 02:33:40 PM
You have expressed the feelings I have and I am sure many more have.  I'd rather do something even if the odds don't seem in my favor. 

Glad to see you posting again.

Liam
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 30, 2007, 10:22:04 PM
j:

Welcome back with us. BTW, I tried to send you a PM, but your inbox is full and will not accept any more PMs.

Please edit your inbox and delete some PMS so that we can send you one.

Old Man
Title: J, ved's, and welcome back
Post by: Angus on July 02, 2007, 05:30:56 PM

   J, welcome back. I'm with O. Man on duration of cycles being shorter and more numerous. Keeping a vacuum on for 30 uninterrupted minutes would be asking for trouble. I used several cycles of a few minutes each per session. And for myself, 26 weeks wasn't near enough time for treatment; I used the ved for over a year to see an acceptable correction. I use it occasionally for maintenance now with good results. Again, welcome back. I enjoyed your posts in the past and look forward to more of them!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: nemo on July 02, 2007, 09:52:51 PM
I use a VED (one five-minute pump once a day (more or less)) and once I ran out of the lube/gel that comes with the pump (the Osbon Esteem, by the way), I started using aloe vera, the kind that comes in a big hand pump dispenser.  It's quick and easy and works just as good as the Osbon stuff.  Plus, the hand dispenser is no mess.

Good luck,
Nemo
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: j on July 03, 2007, 10:47:43 AM
Thanks all.

Liquid hand soap (pump dispensed) works pretty well, at least for 5-10 minutes,  and washes out of the cylinder quickly.

Title: Re: VED's - Lube
Post by: Liam on July 03, 2007, 12:09:26 PM
In this case, cheaper is better.  I can see no reason to use an expensive lube when either of the two alternatives just mentioned work fine. 
Title: Re: VED's - Lubricants
Post by: Old Man on July 03, 2007, 03:28:43 PM
j, Nemo and Liam:

You should be extremely careful in using the liquid hand soap solution as a lubricant while using the VED. I know from experience that if you use one that has a high detergent content, you will over time damage the surface skin layer and cause the skin to become irritated. This happened to me while using the Osbon Esteem VED which is much "looser fitting" than the Soma Correct or Erect VEDs. Maybe using one that has an additive for irritated skin surfaces would work best.

The relatively cheap Equate personal lubricant from Wal Mart has done a very good job for me throughout the years. The Osbon lubricant is no better and the cost is extremely high.

Have not tried the aloe vera, but it appears that it would not cause any damage to the skin. Have used the plant juice for treating burns and it worked well for that.

The above is just my observations through past usage of the liquid soap, etc.

Regards to all, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: j on July 03, 2007, 03:37:46 PM
Some guys have suggested shaving cream, which sounds reasonable, since it's formulated to be used every day.

Does something like Equate rinse out of the cylinder easily?
Title: Lubes
Post by: Angus on July 03, 2007, 06:08:51 PM
   Astroglide seems to stay wet longer so that's my preference. It takes only a dab to slick things up, and it's water soluable so the VED rinses quickly with a bottle brush. A 5 oz. bottle is around $10 US at Walgreens. From experience, I would stay away from soaps and certainly shaving creams. I tried some body lotion that contains olive oil; it makes a good lube but is hard to rinse out of the tube, so I'm sticking with Astroglide. The Equate brand is in fact cheaper and stays wet almost as long as Astroglide; there is little difference between the two. Both are water based and rinse out quickly. When you use a VED every day for over a year you get a bit picky with your lubricant  ;D
Title: Re: VED's - Lubrication
Post by: Old Man on July 03, 2007, 07:19:27 PM
j:

I forgot to mention in my PM to you about the lube that Angus uses. It is the "Cadillac" of lubes, just a little pricey for old folks on a limited income. As he said, the two are almost equal in their lube qualities and both clean up easily with water. The Equate is just not quite as large a container as his.

Just experiment with various lubes until you find one that suits you best.  At any rate though, use plenty lube when using the VED to prevent any damage to the skin.

IMHO, shaving cream, liquid hand soap and other cosmetics could damage the skin. Since that area of the body is real sensitive, I would want the softest lube available.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/ Lubes
Post by: Kimo on July 03, 2007, 09:34:56 PM
I agree with Angus that astroglide is the best but you guys are paying too much for it...I get it at walmart for around 6.00 bucks....I use it a lot and it is the best there is....I'm not using it for a VED tho,,just for sex. 

kimo
Title: smallest cylinder
Post by: whygodwhy on July 05, 2007, 11:44:30 PM
hey all, im new to the board, but i've had peyronies for as long as i can remember (almost 10 years)

anyway, i was wondering if anyone had tried or had any success only using only the smallest cylinder (1.5 inch)
since im only about 5 degrees to the left, the larger cyclinders don't seem to do anything for the bend.  im 2 months in the 26week soma correct protocol but was considering only using the small cylinder from here on out since my erections look better on days i use the small one
Title: Re: 5 Degrees
Post by: Hawk on July 06, 2007, 12:00:36 AM
Why,

Few men on earth have a penis that does not deviate 5 degrees in some direction.  That is almost imperceptible. 


is there more to the story?
Title: Re: VED Therapy
Post by: Old Man on July 06, 2007, 10:02:52 AM
Why:

I am with Hawk on his comment about the 5 degree deviation. Have never seen any evidence that all men's penises are straight. Almost all have some degree of bend/curve in some direction.

Now, a note about the VED therapy: If you are going to use the 26 week protocol, IMHO, you should follow the exact course laid out therein. Using only the small cylinder does not allow the protocol to do "its work" for you. It was designed to give the penile chambers a complete workout. So, bottom line, it is my recommendation that you continue to use all three cylinders (if you have the three cylinder model VED) and not give in to the small cylnder.

Observation: I believe the reason you see a straighter erection immediately after using the small cylinder is because the penis is confined in it to a very straight position and it will retain that shape for a short period of time after using the VED.

Good luck to you on your therapy and keep it up on a regullar daily basis as called for in the 26 week protocol.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: MUSICMAN on July 06, 2007, 12:48:15 PM
I have had Peyronie's for about a year and a half. Only real treatment
being the vitimin E.  I think I would like to try the Multi-Cylinder vacuum
therapy. I believe the model needed is the Soma Correct.  When I went
to the website it shows the model as being discontuned. Where can I
get the three cylinder unit. I maybe wrong about the above information
so please advise.   Musicman
Title: Soma Suggestion
Post by: Steve on July 06, 2007, 03:01:10 PM
MusicMan,

I'm sure that Old Man will chime in (he's our resident VED guru), but Osbon replaced the Soma Correct with the Soma Erect.  I don't think that there is any difference between the units (OM will clarify).  As I recall, they had to change the name as the 'Correct' model was originally marketed to correct Peyronies Disease, but they hadn't obtained the FDA approvals, and had to retract all statements to that effect.

Good Luck

Steve
Title: Re: Soma VEDs
Post by: Old Man on July 06, 2007, 06:12:48 PM
MusicMan:

OK, from your name, I am guessing that you are affiliated with music in some manner. My whole family plays the piano and my wife teaches at a local university.

Now, about VEDs. The Soma Correct was pulled from the market by the makers due to some conflict with the FDA approvals, etc. They also had a problem with a minor "pinching" problem with the sizing inserts.

Therefore, they introduced a replacement VED for the Soma which is named Erect. It is sold solely under the approval for ED, not Peyronies Disease. However, it is basically one and the same unit. The Soma came with a 26 week therapy protocol. The Erect comes only with the accessories for ED. The Erect can be used for Peyronies Disease equally as well as the Soma for Peyronies Disease though.

So, bottom line, if you desire to try the VED therapy, you can obtain the 26 week protocol on this forum or it is available from the Birmingham, AL Urology group who is conducting a study using the three cylinder VED. That site's website address is posted elsewhere on this forum under the compiled posts in the child board listings.

I also have the protocol stored on my computer and if you have trouble finding it on the forum, here, give me an email address and I will email it to you when you are ready, etc. Will be glad to help in any manner.

Old Man
Title: Re: 5 Degrees
Post by: whygodwhy on July 07, 2007, 07:43:21 PM
Quote from: Hawk on July 06, 2007, 12:00:36 AM
Why,

Few men on earth have a penis that does not deviate 5 degrees in some direction.  That is almost imperceptible. 


is there more to the story?

...is that really true?  i would think that most guys point upwards a little or maybe downwards, but to the left or right?  i find that hard to believe.  what is really average?  how about 10 degrees?

i remember not curving left or downward at all when i was like 12, but i pointed upwards a little bit.  that is what im trying to get back to!!!!

anyway, my curvature used to be worse.  Can't say how bad exactly cause i took no picture.  i think jelquing helped

now i am between 5 and 10 degrees to the left and point downwards 20 degrees (doest really curve, it just slopes).
i had an ultrasound done recently which identified scarring, but they said it wasn't calcified.  is it possible the scar has been remodeled as much as it can be, but if that were true wouldn't nothing be identifiable on the ultrasound?  im not sure how that works

i don't have pain but i am considering surgery as a last resort cause it bothers me a lot.  but only if nothing else i try works.  im hoping VED will eliminate all curvature/deviation.  im also using topical verapimil and am considering injections despite mostly negative comments on it

the urologist who diagnosed my condition as Peyronies also perscribed the pump and the verapamil.  but i saw another urologist who said he thought i should stop using the pump because it might make the condition worse.  im pretty confused now!!  im wondering if i still have Peyronies Disease or if its just scarring, im not really sure about the difference...
Title: Re: Why - Considering Surgery
Post by: Hawk on July 07, 2007, 08:06:18 PM
I am not sure I follow you.  You say you slope down but not curve or bend down.  Is that just a bit of a slope from lack of firmness in erection?  Can you easily lift it so it slopes upward in that state?  If so, then as you say, that is not a Peyronies Disease curve because the shaft of the penis is not curved down.

As J once said to a member many months ago, "most guys here would consider themselves cured if the had a 10 degree bend"  I pretty much agree with that.  I am puzzled as to why you would consider surgery for such a slight bend that could never interfere with intercourse?  For starters, no ethical surgeon in the world would even consider you a candidate for surgery if I am understanding your condition.  Intercourse has to pretty much be impossible or greatly compromised (greater than a 30 degree bend).  Even if someone did consider you a candidate, it is very difficult to comprehend a man risking a totally functional penis to something a radical as penile surgery for cosmetic reasons.

I think it is important to resolve this understanding or misunderstanding prior to pursuing any treatment.  I think treatment requires a well identified problem, a clear set of objectives and expectations, and an accurate assessment of the possible treatment risks.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 07, 2007, 08:07:23 PM
why:

I have had extensive experience in the use of VEDs by many men in my prostate cancer support group as well others on the web. Have personally worked with quite a number of these guys. So far, none have reported any serious problems with VED usage.

About the only item that has been reported is a few having used too much pressure and developed a swelling or redness of the skin, etc. The VED does not always work for everybody, but for most they do see at least some improvement in their condition.

However, VED is a personal choice and one must make up their own mind about using them. Any VED protocol must be approached with a positive attitude. It does take time to see any results and there will be no overnight recovery as some think can happen. Peyronies Disease usually comes on slowly and most probably will go away slowly if at all.

Old Man

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: whygodwhy on July 07, 2007, 08:35:47 PM
old man - have you heard of cases where the curvature was completely eliminated?  down to 0 degrees curvature?  what were your personal results for using a VED?  what angle of curvature were you left with?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: j on July 07, 2007, 11:04:01 PM
There used to be a web site that was all about pictures of penises.  Sounds ridiculous but in a way, it was valuable as it gave some real perspective on the very large range of variation in this equipment. All sorts of bends and curves were shown, none of which impeded anyone's function.  I think the site went away at some point.

If someone is worrying about a 5 degree variation, I'd say either they're not expressing themselves accurately in terms of a measured angle, or they're just very anxious about themselves, physically, for some reason. 5 degrees is nothing. Really. Nothing.  I had a very noticeable leftward bend all my adullt life probably 10-15 degrees, decades before I got Peyronie's (and Dupuytren's).  I gave it no thought and it was no problem whatsoever.

It's certainly possible that a 5-degree bend is caused by Peyronie's, rather than being simply a natural asymmetry.  I don't mean to be dismissive of anyone's concern, but if a 5 degree bend is what you're worrying about, then - quite worrying. Just go out and live.
Title: Re: Why
Post by: Liam on July 08, 2007, 08:17:24 AM
Quoteanyway, my curvature used to be worse.  Can't say how bad exactly cause i took no picture.  i think jelquing helped

OK I was not going to chime in.  But, that has my crap detector going off.  "Jelqing" ... the whole idea is ridiculous.  No way can it help Peyronies Disease.  It might "break" your penis and make it worse. :o
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 08, 2007, 09:41:17 AM
why:

I won't say that my curve/bend all went away, but today there is little evidence of any curve over and above what I had naturally before Peyronies Disease. There was always the slight upward curve when erect. However, that has almost been eliminated due to a radical prostatectomy in 1995. Since there are no more natural erections, I can not observe that that anymore :'(

j: The webe site you are referring to is still up and running, it is:

www.ejacu.com/   

It shows hundreds of free pictures of penises in all sizes, shapes and forms. Some pictures could be considered "off color", but they do represent a cross section of what penises can and do look like, etc.

Old Man
Title: Picture site - for WGW
Post by: Steve on July 08, 2007, 09:58:53 AM
Old Man, Thanks for posting the site. I think the most important information for whygodwhy is found on the home page with the statement:
QuoteDid you know?
Over 30% of men report their penis as bent or curved to the left or right. Another 45% of men report an upward or downward curvature. Unique qualities like this are totally natural. The curvature is not caused by certain types of underwear or masturbation positions. Masturbating the penis does not change its shape or size. A curve or bend is simply a natural variation, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: Why
Post by: soxfan on July 08, 2007, 09:16:10 PM
Quote from: Liam on July 08, 2007, 08:17:24 AM
Quoteanyway, my curvature used to be worse.  Can't say how bad exactly cause i took no picture.  i think jelquing helped

OK I was not going to chime in.  But, that has my crap detector going off.  "Jelqing" ... the whole idea is ridiculous.  No way can it help Peyronies Disease.  It might "break" your penis and make it worse. :o

You are incorrect, Liam, jelqing is no more dangerous than the ved or traction devices. It does work, but takes time and care like anything else.

Cheers.
Title: Re: SoxFan - Jelq
Post by: Liam on July 08, 2007, 09:41:15 PM
This is from a site dedicated to "male enhancement" (not exactly speaking against it).

QuoteJelqing (also known as milking) is an exercise designed to force large amounts of blood through the penis, increasing the internal pressure and creating controlled damage or micro-tears in the structure of the penis. This damage will be mostly repaired overnight but overworking or not taking rest days will reduce efficacy. The effects can be to increase length or girth or a combination of the two.

Source: http://penis-enlargement-manual.thundersplace.org/how-to-jelq.html

Micro tears = Micro trauma  :::alarm sounds:::

Just in case the old hand is not enough, you can get a JD (jelqing device) (NOT KIDDING).


(http://www.jelqdevice.com/images/thumbs/intro_jelq.jpg)
Don't click to enlarge.  I just linked to the thumbnail to save space.


Y'all go ahead if you want.   But, not me ;).
Title: Jelging
Post by: Hawk on July 08, 2007, 11:28:51 PM
Liam,

I certainly have my misgivings about jelging especially in the hands of (no pun intended) those obsessed with increasing natural penis size.  Building internal stretching pressure with blood however is exactly what a VED does.  At least one guy on this forum claimed that prior to Peyronies Disease his girl friend "popped" his penis trying to see how big she could stretch it (even after he yelled STOP) with a battery powered VED. 

I trust a VED is more controlled
more uniform pressure
quality ones have safety limits on the amount of vacuum pressure

However, they force blood to fill and stretch the tissue.  The degree is up to the user - "Helpful" or "Hurtful"
I think the same must be true of jelging

I think the stigma comes from the group that uses it.  This was also the case, first with VED's, and then with traction.
Title: Re: VED's vs Jelq's
Post by: Liam on July 09, 2007, 08:54:08 AM
VEDs create negative pressure allowing blood to flow into the penis filling the chambers. 

Jelqing (at its best) moves blood already in the penis.  No "new" blood enters the penis.  It actually squeezes :o blood out of tissue at the base in favor of forcing it to the glans (head).  DANGEROUS!!!

I can see no benefits.  Sorry.  I'm not trying to offend.  The facts just seems obvious.

BTW, this post only represents my studied ;) opinion.  Read and reread all the info out there.  Decide for yourself.  I just can't imagine why a group of guys who have discussed micro trauma's role in Peyronies Disease would intentionally inflict repeated trauma to an already diseased penis.

I agree about the stigma with the groups.  There are, however, reputable doctors recommending VEDs (and traction).  I can't say the same for jelqing.  How would they write orders for it? ;)
Title: Re: Liam - VED's - Jelqing
Post by: Hawk on July 09, 2007, 09:15:10 AM
Liam,

I find this discussion interesting.

I have an open mind on this and I want to make it clear I am not advocating jelqing or the VED for that matter.  I am sure you could search and find some speculation that VED's increase size through micro trauma, and that you could also find information suggesting that jelquing increases size by applying slow gentle stretching and remolding pressure to erectile tissue.  My point is that because some possible dope theorized it works through micro trauma is hardly evidence that:
A - It works at all
B - It involves micro trauma
C- that it works differently than a VED as far as internal pressure on the tissue is concerned
D- That it is safer or more dangerous than a VED or Traction

That fact of whether the blood applying the pressure to the penis is, arterial blood drawn in, or venous blood forced to back flow into the penis, or saline infused directly to the carvernosa, has no bearing on the character of the stretching force.  The stretching force is caused by fluid filling the chambers to capacity because there is less pressure in the chambers (or part of the chambers) than in the surrounding area.  This is either caused by decreasing the surrounding pressure with vacuum or increasing pressure through arterial dilation (natural erection), or increasing pressure by by shifting the blood from one area to the other with constriction.

Remember that many men have experienced blood spots, testicle entrapment, edema, and other issues from over aggressive or improper VED use.  At least one made a strong case for having his penis pop with significant damage from a VED.  Making the point it is possible to injure yourself with jelqing does not make the point in my mind that jelqing works differently or that it cannot be done safely.  I would need an explanation as to why the pressure was greater or less tolerated than the pressure on the tissue from other methods.
Title: Re: Jelq and VED
Post by: Liam on July 09, 2007, 11:07:50 AM
Why take the chance?  Do some risk assessment.  The risks outweigh the seemingly small possibility of benefit.

I do agree their is a certain amount of risk involved with everything.

QuoteC- that it works differently than a VED as far as internal pressure on the tissue is concerned

The pressure is on the head of the penis.  If the plaque/area of concern is toward the base, blood is constantly being forced away from it and the area is being squeezed over and over.  This seems counterintuitive.

Title: Re: Jelq and VED
Post by: Hawk on July 09, 2007, 03:05:34 PM
Quote from: Liam on July 09, 2007, 11:07:50 AM
The pressure is on the head of the penis.  If the plaque/area of concern is toward the base, blood is constantly being forced away from it and the area is being squeezed over and over. 

I think we understand the entire technique differently.  It can be squeezed gently and held.  The VED puts significant pressure on the glans. In fact that is usually where the any blood dots develop with VED use. Keep in mind, the man with the penis has direct control over the amount of pressure whether VED or jelqing.  It can be gentle pressure and hold, or damaging pressure in short intense rapid sequence.  The method is not what dictates that.

IF the plaque is in the very base I agree that it would be very counter intuitive.  The only chance it would work is if the plaque was somewhere in the end 2/3rds of the shaft.

I just have to reject the suggestion that jelging has to be damaging, high pressure, short and repetitive or that the VED is always used with proper pressure, slowly, and safely.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 09, 2007, 03:38:50 PM
Note to all:

Enjoyed the previous discussions relative jelqing, VED and traction. IMHO, using any of these methods of therapy for Peyronies Disease has to be done with caution and with an informed mind.

I have been opposed to using a battery powered VED all along. Don't remember if I have had any discussion against its use in the past. But, I am formally advocating against its use for Peyronies Disease therapy. The battery powered model will in most cases cause an excessive pressure long before you can produce that amount with a manual unit. No matter how hard one tries, the battery model can not be controlled as well as the manual model.

The manual model can be stopped at any point in the stroke of the lever therefore eliminating any chance of overpumping. I have cautioined in most every post about the VED that one do no OVERPUMP THE PRESSURE, and also I have stated that if pain or discomfort is experienced with using the VED, to release the pressure at once before starting over. Caution is the watchword for using the VED for Peyronies Disease as well as ED.

The above is just my observations over the past 12 plus years of successful VED use.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - CTS - Jelq - Butterfly Wings
Post by: Liam on July 09, 2007, 04:09:33 PM
Old Man - I agree 100% with what you said about avoiding the battery powered pump.

Hawk - I forgot to mention the dangers of carpel tunnel syndrome.  ;)

OK I'll concede.  If someone can be very careful on every stroke and caress his member with the touch of butterfly wings........wait thats from my wife's romance novel.  I don't think that can be called therapy ;D.

At least we all agree that CAUTION is the word.

Liam
Title: Re: Liam - Jelqing
Post by: Hawk on July 09, 2007, 07:42:45 PM
I enjoyed our "Point / Counter point"  ;)
Title: Re: Point/Counterpoint
Post by: Liam on July 09, 2007, 08:43:19 PM
Hawk,

If you start your next post with, "Liam, you ignorant sl*t", I'll start calling you Dan.

Old SNL reference ;)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on July 11, 2007, 04:07:24 PM
Hi all

I'm into my second week of using a VED.. Soma Correct, and I'm not sure I'm doing it right. I've read much of the thread and as a result I'm doing my very best not to overpump, as this seems to be the big no no. On the other hand I don't want to waste my time by not pumping enough. Is that possible?

At the moment I get to a point where I can begin to feel the pressure on the skin all around the penis. This is usually after about 5 pumps on the handle. Is that the time to stop? Once or twice I've gone beyond that and had a bit of pain after, although it's gone away eventually ( a few hours ). Could I have caused more damage?  And the skin is always reddish/purple when I've done the exercise, but reverts quickly to normal with no bruising.  It seems like there might be a fine line between getting the maximum therapeutic effect and causing damage. Perhaps that's not the case.

Secondly, I've a question about lubricant. I'm aware of my limited supply and the expense.
Can anyone recommend a cheap alternative available in the UK? I've had a look for the Aloe Vera gel in a hand pump mentioned by Nemo but no luck as yet.

Many thanks in advance. Hoping you can help with both or either.
Title: Re: VED's - Aloe Gel
Post by: Liam on July 11, 2007, 05:42:41 PM
Shrout,

Sounds like you're stopping at the right time.

Try the suntan section for the aloe gel pump.  I use the same stuff after I've been in the sun :-[

Liam
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: whygodwhy on July 11, 2007, 05:49:16 PM
Quote from: Old Man on July 08, 2007, 09:41:17 AM
why:

but today there is little evidence of any curve over and above what I had naturally before Peyronies Disease. There was always the slight upward curve when erect.

what angle where u left with, what do you mean by slight?

i took some pictures of myself and measured them with a protractor.  turns out i am a little under 15 degrees to the left and 20 degrees downward.  the angle i had before was just from holding a protractor up to myself

can the pump improve past 15 degrees curvature?  or is that when it sort of it tops out?

has anyone who used the pump gotten all curvature to go away that existed before Peyronies Disease symptoms???
can the pump return me to 0 degrees or i am about as good as the pump is going to get it?

what have others results been?


will the pump still eliminate curvature if i fon't have calcified plaque but just scar tissue ?(not sure if thats still considered plaque)  the pump still remodels the scar tissue, right?


Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Angus on July 11, 2007, 07:06:09 PM
Quote from: shrout on July 11, 2007, 04:07:24 PM
Hi all

...On the other hand I don't want to waste my time by not pumping enough. Is that possible?

At the moment I get to a point where I can begin to feel the pressure on the skin all around the penis. This is usually after about 5 pumps on the handle. Is that the time to stop? Once or twice I've gone beyond that and had a bit of pain after, although it's gone away eventually ( a few hours ). Could I have caused more damage?  And the skin is always reddish/purple when I've done the exercise, but reverts quickly to normal with no bruising.  It seems like there might be a fine line between getting the maximum therapeutic effect and causing damage. Perhaps that's not the case...


   Hi and welcome, Shrout. Don't think so much in terms of maximum theraputic effect per session. With the VED, "more is less" rings true here. "If a little bit of vacuum is good then a whole lot of vacuum must be better" logic does not fly here. Don't go that extra pump that causes some pain.. just stop at the 5 pumps or whatever is comfortable for you. The best theraputic effect is going to come from a disciplined approach to regular VED use. From what you say, you probably didn't cause any more damage; just take it easy on the pumps, and if you want maximum theraputic effect go for a comfortable vacuum level per session and regular use of the VED... don't skip too many days, if any. The VED is a type of physical therapy, and like any physical therapy, a regular administration of it will have a more likely chance of producing results. You're going to be fine... stick with it and let us know how things go.


Angus
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 11, 2007, 07:16:38 PM
why:

I agree with Angus. Do not overpump as he says. More is not better since you can do further damage by using too much pressure, etc.

You asked about my curve/bend at the present time. Since I cannot achieve a natural erection, I cannot measure the amount or degree of curve/bend. I can only achieve an erection by using the VED, and when it is erect then by using the retainers rings, my penis stands straight out from my body with no hinge effect or curve/bend. I do curve upward in what is called the U curve which I have had since birth.

You just have to keep up the daily exercise therapy sessions to see you can achieve some positive results. It take time and patience to get something going for you. So, bottom line, don't get impatient, but keep a positive attitude to it all.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on July 12, 2007, 12:21:44 PM
Many thanks Angus/Liam/OM

I'll look upon it more as a therapy session, as you advise Angus, rather than a stretching exercise, which is how I was tending to think of it. That's most useful.

I'll let you know as and when (if  ???) changes begin to take place.
Title: Re: Jelq and VED
Post by: newguy on July 15, 2007, 09:17:59 AM
Quote
IF the plaque is in the very base I agree that it would be very counter intuitive.  The only chance it would work is if the plaque was somewhere in the end 2/3rds of the shaft.

My bend is slightly less than half way up. From reading your comments are you of the opinion that using a VED would not be helpful in my case?
Title: NewGuy - Jelq
Post by: Steve on July 15, 2007, 10:56:05 AM
NewGuy,
I'm sure that the '2/3' figure was given for 'jelqing', not using the VED.
Jelqing (as I understand it) consists of squeezing and forcing the blood from the base up toward the Glans, resulting in stretching and extra blood in the top 1/3 or so of the penis.
The use of the VED however results in engorgement/stretching and extra blood in the entire penis (except of course the portion that's inside the body cavity).
So, think of Jelqing as (possibly) helping the top 1/3, but VED helping the entire penis...personally, I vote for (and have been using) the VED!
Steve
Title: Re: Ditto Steve
Post by: Liam on July 15, 2007, 12:40:43 PM
Yes, comments related to jelqs.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Bentrick on July 15, 2007, 10:40:27 PM
OK, I've been doing iontophoresis with Verapamil and dexamethasonefor about two months - but only intermittently - and have had a VED - Osbon erectaid manual - for about two weeks.. It is easy to use But I need some help!!

I can pull the vacuum to a mildly uncomfortable level easily -- How long should I keep it at the bearable plaque stretching sensation - and then how many repititions.  I have been doing four or five 30 second stretches at a sitting, twice a day.  I am viewing this as long term therapy not as a quick fix.  Any suggestions on the proper regimen... I have searched the archives andthis thread and cannot find the VED protocal.  Thanks -- it really is helpful to be doing something and having this resourece for advice.    Oh yeah - planning to start the pentox too.
Title: Vacuum Erection Devices - time on
Post by: Tim468 on July 16, 2007, 08:08:20 AM
I don't think anyone knows what an optimal time is. However, some thoughts (and details).

I apply a stretch/vacuum while in the bath in the evening. I like that heat has a relaxing effect on me and that includes making application of a vacuum more comfortable and easy. I now almost exclusively use soap as my lubricant (I use a shallow bath so that when I recline the penis is no longer under water)and apply an initial vacuum that brings me to "half mast". I use the cylinder applied vacuum in a gentle milking motion to bring blood into the shaft and I do this for about 3-5 minutes. I find I have to periodically relax the vacuum to readjust (ie sometimes some scrotum gets pulled up into the cylinder). During this initial period, there is a general and gradual increase in penis size - if I just applied the vacuum and left it, I would not get the full benefit.

After getting to, um, "full mast", I apply a vacuum of about  minus 200 mm Hg and leave it (I detach the vacuum device) and relax in the bath. I periodically relax and reapply the vacuum about every five minutes. This time frame lasts from 5 to 20 minutes. During this time period, I usually see no more lengthening of my penis in the cylinder. If I go significantly longer, I tend to see edema on the end which lasts for about 30 more minutes after stopping.

You can leave the vacuum on for longer than 30 seconds, but a brief ten second release now and then seems to keep blood flow fresher (or so it seems to most of us who do it and discuss it).

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 16, 2007, 11:21:20 PM
Bentrick:

I want to add my 2 cents to Tim's approach to the VED length of time, etc. My VED therapy for Peyronies Disease was with the Osbon Esteem manual model. Not sure of which model you are referring to in your post, so if you would give us the exact model you have, is it the Erecaid Classic or the Erecaid Esteem model?

Have worked up a regimen for many guys using both of the Osbon models of VEDs and would be glad to assist you with your protocol if you so desire. List the exact model you have and I would be glad to work up a regimen for you. Actually, the system I used is very simple and does not cause pain or discomfort if used properly and in moderation as all of us have found using the VEDs.

Look forward to hearing back from you.

Old Man.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Bentrick on July 18, 2007, 11:49:05 PM
Thanks for the feedback.  I have the Esteem manual model which is very easy to control.  I just need a workable program.  All suggestions are appreciated!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 19, 2007, 03:13:17 PM
Bentrick:

OK, the Esteem manual model is the one that I used. It took a little over 6 months to get it back like it was before Peyronies Disease.

It would be best for me to give you my regimen in a PM rather than here. I have listed it somewhere on here before, probably is now on one of the recap threads under the Child Boards.

Will send you a PM sometime soon.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: whygodwhy on July 19, 2007, 08:34:26 PM
Quote from: Bentrick on July 15, 2007, 10:40:27 PM
OK, I've been doing iontophoresis with Verapamil and dexamethasonefor about two months - but only intermittently - and have had a VED

im just curious about iontophoresis and dexamethasone since ive never heard of either.  are they creams, pills?  did a urologist perscribe them or did you hear about them on the internet?  had any luck with either?

ive been on VED for a little over two months, i hold for 10 seconds then release - for 10 cycles.  not sure if this is the best method but its what the salesman for the soma correct said yeilded the best results.  thats how long i hold for...
Title: Re: WGW - Iontophoresis
Post by: Hawk on July 20, 2007, 07:17:52 AM
Quote from: whygodwhy on July 19, 2007, 08:34:26 PM
im just curious about iontophoresis and dexamethasone since ive never heard of either.  are they creams, pills?  did a urologist perscribe them or did you hear about them on the internet?  had any luck with either?

Iontophoresis is in the TITLE of one of our forum topics.

If you take time to learn the search feature or read our "Just Diagnosed - Forum Highlights" you will see there is a ton of information readily available on this forum.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: whygodwhy on July 25, 2007, 06:48:40 PM
im kind of freaking out because this morning i found that i had a bit of blood under the head of my penis on the shaft :-\

i must be overpumping.  Im 6.5 inches when naturally erect and don't pump past that point - which leads me to believe that i must have gained girth because it happened towards the end of the week while using the smallest cylinder.  im 11 weeks into the 26week protocol. 

the last thing i want is to develop another plaque or scar or make my curvature worse. 

can a pump do that?  i was under cautious - im worried about how safe it is to continue, although i still want to finish the protocol.

is there any chance the pump might do serious damage?  i never expected to bleed, seeing blood makes me pretty concerned.  im going to take a day or two off and see how i look

is there something i should put on the area i was bleeding?
what should i do?!?!?
will it be safe to go back to pumping after a day or two?
I definately don't want to start the protocol over, im almost halfway done!

thanks for any help
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 25, 2007, 07:02:11 PM
WGW:

The blood could indicate that at some point that you did use too much pressure. The small cylinder confines the shaft very well and overpumping with it can cause edema, redness and possibly break the skin to allow bleeding. (The rule of thumb is: if you feel any pain or discomfort at all, reduce the amount of pressure and proceed very cautiously.)
You should discontinue the protocol until the area has properly healed. IMHO, you could just pick up the protocol in the week that you stopped. I see no reason to start over since you are almost halfway through the protocol. However, if after you have completed the entire program, and you have not seen good results, I would strongly urge to start over with the protocol.

You might apply any medication that would promote healing to the area, but be careful to read the label so that it does apply to healing, etc. maybe something like neosporin.

In the future, just be extremely careful in the amount of pressure you apply and you should have no further problems. Be glad to help in any manner.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: whygodwhy on July 25, 2007, 08:36:50 PM
old man,

thanks for your advice, neosporin sounds like a good idea.    im still extremely worried that i somehow caused a new plaque,trauma area or something, and its just in the early stages and in a few months i will be worse.  is this an over-reaction?  bruises or redness or little bumps sound typical, but blood?  i can't help but feel like a bleeding penis is what may cause peyronies in the first place.  do you think i did serious damage?  the area feels raised, like a slight bump, or future plaque! :o  i may just be scaring myself but i am still worried.
am i making too big a deal out of this? 
i wanna be sure before continuing the protocol that im not risking worsening the condition?
i even had a uro tell me to not use the pump bcs he thought it would make me worse

have others experienced bleeding from overpumping but were ok in a few days?

is there a risk that VED will worsen my condition?
Title: Re: Hickey
Post by: Liam on July 25, 2007, 09:28:55 PM
Is it a hickey.

QuoteHICKEY:

Coat area liberally with lotion. Rub with the back of a cold spoon vigorously for as long as you can stand to, changing out spoon for new cold one every 10 minutes. Recommended time for this treatment is 45-60 minutes. Why it works: a hickey is a bruise; the discoloration of a bruise is caused by blood accumulating under the skin from broken capillaries; this remedy breaks up the old blood so it can be reabsorbed by the body more quickly, therefore diminished the discoloration.
Rub white toothpaste over the hickey, allow to dry, and later, wipe it off with a warm facecloth. After a few applications, the hickey will be faded. Do not use gel toothpaste. (Submitted by Hot Rod Anne.)

Source: http://kitchen.robbiehaf.com/HomeRemedies.html#31

;D :D ;) :)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/minor problems
Post by: Old Man on July 25, 2007, 10:47:52 PM
WGW:

First, let me encourage you slow down with your emotions and try to remain in a more calm state. I know that you are anxious about anything that would be a set back with Peyronies Disease. It seems like that you might be a little too aggressive with your VED regimen of the protocol. Pumping with too much pressure is and will remain to be the biggest problem with using the VED. You think that more pressure will do more good, but this is a case where less is better. So, stretch your penis to it's fullest without feeling pain or discomfort and DO NOT PUMP BEYOND THAT POINT!

So, bottom line, let the affected area heal up well, then pick up at the point in the protocol WHERE you left off. This time use only enough pressure to get the shaft well into the small cylinder and when it feels "full" stop the pressure at that point and follow the cycles as indicated in the regimen. You may not be using enough lubricant to keep the cylinder lubed so that the shaft slips in and out easily, so be sure to use plenty. The protocol is designed to give the penile shaft as much "workout", for want of a better word, so it can as much blood flow as possible into the shaft, etc.

I really don't think that you have done any permanent damage to yourself, just use this episode as a reminder to use less pressure and work more slowly with your cycles.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on July 26, 2007, 07:34:10 AM
Although the blood may have been collected at the tip, did it come from there? Many of us trim and shave the hair around the base of the penis, and that hair extends somewhat onto the shaft. If one shaves just before applying vacuum, it will draw blood out through the microscopic bleeding sites on the shaft and at the base. That blood can be carried forward to the tip as one removes the cylinder. In any event, simply wait a few days and apply less pressure next time.

Tim
Title: Maybe you guys are on to something..VED Reduces TFG-B1
Post by: roadblock on August 01, 2007, 11:10:29 PM
1: J Cell Physiol. 2007 Jul 24; [Epub ahead of print] Links
Tissue stretch decreases soluble TGF-beta1 and type-1 procollagen in mouse subcutaneous connective tissue: Evidence from ex vivo and in vivo models.Bouffard NA, Cutroneo KR, Badger GJ, White SL, Buttolph TR, Ehrlich HP, Stevens-Tuttle D, Langevin HM.
Department of Neurology, University of Vermont College of Medicine, Burlington, Vermont.

Transforming growth factor beta 1 (TGF-beta1) plays a key role in connective tissue remodeling, scarring, and fibrosis. The effects of mechanical forces on TGF-beta1 and collagen deposition are not well understood. We tested the hypothesis that brief (10 min) static tissue stretch attenuates TGF-beta1-mediated new collagen deposition in response to injury. We used two different models: (1) an ex vivo model in which excised mouse subcutaneous tissue (N = 44 animals) was kept in organ culture for 4 days and either stretched (20% strain for 10 min 1 day after excision) or not stretched; culture media was assayed by ELISA for TGF-beta1; (2) an in vivo model in which mice (N = 22 animals) underwent unilateral subcutaneous microsurgical injury on the back, then were randomized to stretch (20-30% strain for 10 min twice a day for 7 days) or no stretch; subcutaneous tissues of the back were immunohistochemically stained for Type-1 procollagen. In the ex vivo model, TGF-beta1 protein was lower in stretched versus non-stretched tissue (repeated measures ANOVA, P < 0.01). In the in vivo model, microinjury resulted in a significant increase in Type-1 procollagen in the absence of stretch (P < 0.001), but not in the presence of stretch (P = 0.21). Thus, brief tissue stretch attenuated the increase in both soluble TGF-beta1 (ex vivo) and Type-1 procollagen (in vivo) following tissue injury. These results have potential relevance to the mechanisms of treatments applying brief mechanical stretch to tissues (e.g., physical therapy, respiratory therapy, mechanical ventilation, massage, yoga, acupuncture). J. Cell. Physiol. (c) 2007 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

PMID: 17654495 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17654495&ordinalpos=74&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Post was edited.  Text added to link.
Title: Re: Jelqing Warning
Post by: gibson101 on August 02, 2007, 12:30:57 AM
this is for the comment about "jelqing" further down
I did that...only for 2min....must have done it wrong because that is why I am on this forum!!!!!!!....whole penis has hardened and loss in size. Urologists have no answers.
So a word of warning against jelqing....DONT DO IT........if u do.......BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL AND GENTLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Vacuum Erection Devices and TGF
Post by: Tim468 on August 02, 2007, 11:40:54 AM
roadblock - great reference!

This suggests a mechanism (sort of - doesn't help us understand HOW this might work) that stretching tissue can attentuate the expression of TGF and hence lead to less scarring or contraction. Fascinating!

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Update on small cylinder of three cylinder protocol
Post by: Old Man on August 02, 2007, 12:41:27 PM
Note to all:

It has come to my attention that several guys have experienced a severe problem with the small or "A" cylinder when using the three cylinder VEDs - Somaerect or Soma Correct, as well as those "home made".

They are stating that it is virtually impossible for them to use the small cylinder for Peyronies Disease therapy exercises according to the three cylinder protocol based on their size. Due to the larger diameter of their flaccid penises they cannot get them to go into the small opening. After discussion with some of them, we have come to the conclusion that the small "A" cylinder should be discontinued altogether with the VED therapy as stated in the three cylinder protocol. The problem only exists with the girth and not the length dimension.

It is my recommendation that the 26 week protocol be modified to eliminate the "A" cylinder cycle schedule and substitute the "B" and "C" cylinders in lieu of the three cylinders. Also suggest that the weekly time originally stated for the small cylinder be split between the intermediate cylinder and the larger cylinder. IOW, split the "A" cylinder schedule time with the B and C weekly schedules.

Hopefully the above modified schedule with eliminate the problem experienced in the past and allow for a better therapy workout for Peyronies Disease.
If any of your guys having the above problem and elect to modify your schedule, please post your results after using the modified approach to the therapy.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 02, 2007, 01:50:38 PM
Thanks for the information on VED sizing.

I am sad to say that I do not have this problem - darn it all! However, I have to say that the smaller cylinder works best for me in exerting a longitudinal stretch on my penis. I think that perhaps a better modification might be for those who have thicker diameter penises (flaccid or not) to simply start with a larger diameter, and to end with a larger diameter.

Thus, one guy may do best to move from a 1.5, to a 1.75 , and then to a 2.0 inch diameter tube, whereas another fellow might do well to start at 1.75 inch diameter and end on a 2.25 inch diameter tube...

I note that the better online vendors tell people how to chose a proper size tube - but remember that they are not trying to start out with a confined penis that fills the cylinder all the way (sideways), at first. I chose my starting diameter by measuring (sort of - I estimated based on how I filled out a 2.25 cylinder) what I was and then chosing a diameter that was just a tiny bit less.

What do you think?

Tim
Title: Cylinder sizes
Post by: Angus on August 02, 2007, 05:40:53 PM
   Well Tim, we need to start a club. I didn't have any problem with the small cylinder either  :-[. I simply chose the next smaller inside diameter tube than my personal width measurement. I think that if a tube inside diameter were chosen that was a maximum of 1/8th inch smaller than a erect penis cross section width there would be no problem. Finding the exact tubing size needed for a specific individual would be a potential challenge given the infinite number of penis widths represented by males.
   For the immediate problem described below, good fix Old Man. These individuals can at least continue therapy with what they have now.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 02, 2007, 07:08:10 PM
Thanks Angus,

I forgot that OldMan was referring to those who have the SOMA erect which comes with three premeasured tubes - those of us who do it ourselves have to chose three cylinders based on our size.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices - small size cylinder
Post by: Old Man on August 02, 2007, 10:00:17 PM
Tim:

I was referring mainly to the Soma Erect and/or Soma Correct. However, some guys made their own VEDs and selected a cylinder size that was too small, so I added that in the mix too.

Read somewhere that only about 1 maybe 2 percent of the male population had penises that were very large in girth and/or length. There is some controversy among the keepers of penis stats about what is the average size of male penises though.

In my case, I have found that using the old Osbon Esteem and now the new Soma Correct VEDs that my girth has increased somewhat in the past 12 years of use. Never had the problem of being too large!  :-[ :'(

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on August 05, 2007, 11:35:07 AM
My first question is rather similar the WGW's...

I was just 4 weeks into the approved protocol when I had to go abroad for 10 days and couldn't take the Soma Correct with me. Should I just carry on from where I left off or start again from scratch?

Also, I'm using an aloe vera gel as my lubricant, but it's not as good at providing a seal as the Soma Therapy lube and I sometimes lose pressure. When it happens I've been compensating by applying quick short pumps on the handle to keep the pressure up. I find it quite easy to control the pressure this way. Is this OK?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Aloe Gel
Post by: Liam on August 05, 2007, 12:16:22 PM
Aloe gel shoul work fine.  A common cause of losing or not attaining a good seal is needing to trim the area. :-[
Title: Re: Shrout - The exactly correct way to proceed with the protocol
Post by: Hawk on August 05, 2007, 01:42:53 PM
Shrout,

You sound a bit like me.  You want everything to be exactly as it should be.  Life and VED's don't work like that (as far as anyone knows).  For all we or doctor Levine know, a 3 week layoff will speed your progress.There have been no randomized, blinded studies indicating one number of daily uses, period of holding pressure, or cylinder size, gets any better results than another.  Some day such a study may reveal there are far better protocols or that it varies with each case and no one will ever know.  These protocols are manufacture's, patient's, and doctor's best wild guess

My advice would be to do what you feel motivated to do within a few guidelines:
Accurately measure your length, girth, and bend before starting the plan
Do it regularly
Do it carefully and conservatively
periodically accurately check your progress.

PS: Whether you leak air and maintain the correct pressure with a better seal, or a few maintenance pumps makes no real difference to your penis.  It may wear your pump out a tiny bit faster.
Title: aloe gel
Post by: j on August 05, 2007, 02:48:41 PM
Aloe gel is neat, cleans up easily, odorless, and works reasonably well for a few minutes; then it starts to liquify and get absorbed by the skin. Just use a lot, and reapply after 10 minutes.

Title: Re: VED's - lubricant and/or schedule
Post by: Old Man on August 05, 2007, 03:48:34 PM
shrout:

Being only 10 or days off the protocol schedule should not be a cause for starting over with the entire system, etc. Just pick up with either the last week you did or pick up at the next week and continue on through. If you were off for say a month or more, then you would need to start over with the entire 26 week cycle.

As for the lubricant, aloe does work but as it was stated, after a short period of time doing the cycles, it does tend to "gel up" and not do a good job of being slippery. There are many low priced personal lubricants out there, so just pick one and try it. I, as well as others, have found the OTC Walmart Equate brand of personal lubricant a very good substitute for the high priced KY Gel and the Soma Therapy brand.  So, be your own judge as to which you prefer. ;D
Old Man
   
Title: Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on August 07, 2007, 02:50:20 PM
I am new to the board and am grateful for all the information I find here. Clearly the best source to date.

I am now 63 years very young and was diagnosed with Peyronies Disease about two years ago. Tried Vitamin E and Potaba with no success. The disease appears to be stabilized with a band of plaque approx 3/8" wide going down the shaft from the base to the head, curvature up approx 30 degrees. Worst part is size reduction: length and girth both half of what they were before (and it was none too big to begin with!!!!)

Both GP and Uro are of the "wait and see" school. This is frustating to say the least. I think that a combination of topicals and a VED are the right next step.

All this to sayI have been looking for a three tube VED device and have no luck. Any help as to how to source this? Have looked on ebay, etc and all appear to be only the one tube variety. Perhaps I should build one per other 's posts.

Thoughts

Thanks
Title: Re: Welcome Seaside2
Post by: Liam on August 07, 2007, 03:28:04 PM
Here is a quick link:  http://www.augustams.com/somaerectstf.cfm

Old Man is our resident guru and I'm sure he will offer more helpful advise.

Make sure to get a prescription for ED not Peyronies Disease.  Insurance may cover for ED.

Liam
Title: seaside2
Post by: Angus on August 07, 2007, 05:03:09 PM

   Welcome to the board seaside2. If you decide to construct a ved, even one with multiple size tubes, this is entirely possible and a shop full of high tech tools is not required. Let us know how you want to procede, and again, welcome.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on August 08, 2007, 09:17:20 AM
I will try the perscription route and see if insurance pays.

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Augusta Medical
Post by: Old Man on August 08, 2007, 11:18:50 AM
seaside2:

Liam and Angus have given you an alternative - make your own or buy one. Tim468, as well as Angus and maybe others have made their own, so you could explore that method. If you decide to purchase one and are going to consider the Augusta Medical route, be sure to ask about a discount from the listed price. In the past, they have worked with guys who did ask for a reduced price and allowed it.

Also, you should browse through the compiled posts that Angus has so graciously put together on the child board section about VEDs, their use, and even how to make your own. We are all here to help, so feel free to ask any and all questions you might.

BTW, you probably won't find the Soma Correct or the Soma Erect on EBay yet, but you could search there for one on a daily basis as you never know when one for sale will pop up.

Good luck to you,

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on August 08, 2007, 01:29:20 PM
Thanks. you guys are GREAT!!!

I appreciate what you do. I only wish that my GP and Uro could temporarily suffer from this stuff to get to understand it better and be a little more aggressive in treatment.
Title: Pulling
Post by: bodoo2u on August 16, 2007, 03:29:16 AM
Fellas, does anyone else feel as if their penis is going to be pulled out of the socket during the use of the 1.5-inch cylinder? Is that normal, or am I doing something wrong? Mind you, it doesn't always feel that way but sometimes it seems as if I get that sensation throughout the entire regimen. The pump grips the area around the base of my member and seems to dig in, making me feel as though it is searching for additional length. I need to know if I'm doing something wrong before I cause some irreparable damage.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 16, 2007, 10:31:32 AM
I have occasionally felt increased discomfort. Here are things that help relieve that, or prevent it.

1) Heat. I like hot baths first, but in any event, heat allows for better stretching of most collagenous/fibrous material (try this at home - pull a hair out of your head (or someone elses if you haven't got enought) and stretch it out. Now hold it under hot water for a minute and stretch it out again. You will be amazed at how much more length you can get out of it).

2) LUBRICATION!! I like to do it in th e tub (shallow water) so I can use soap as a lubricant, but when I use regular lube, I use a lot. I apply some to the inside of the tube with a bottle scrubber brush (thanks Angus) and apply some to my penis. I find that when the lubricant is a bit skimpy, that I feel a lot of discomfort as skin catches along the wall of the tube.

3) Start over. I let off pressure and reapply it after reseating the tube. That allows caught skin to be pulled free, or for some slight folds of skin at the base to better enter into the tube the next time I reapply pressure. When using the smaller tube, though, be careful for trying to place your penis in the tube when it is full of blood, or fully erect - that will hurt too.

Tim
Title: Re: Pulling, bodoo2u
Post by: Angus on August 16, 2007, 06:26:05 PM
Quote from: bodoo2u on August 16, 2007, 03:29:16 AM
Fellas, does anyone else feel as if their penis is going to be pulled out of the socket during the use of the 1.5-inch cylinder? Is that normal, or am I doing something wrong? Mind you, it doesn't always feel that way but sometimes it seems as if I get that sensation throughout the entire regimen. The pump grips the area around the base of my member and seems to dig in, making me feel as though it is searching for additional length. I need to know if I'm doing something wrong before I cause some irreparable damage.

      Hold firmly to the small tube with the pump apparatus in the other hand for control. As you increase negative pressure, the tube will want to pull the penis into the tube and when a full erection is attained the tube will want to pull back onto the pubic bone. Hold firmly to the tube with the base of it at the base of the penis and keep it from digging into the pubic bone. You must hold on to the tube while negative pressure is present, otherwise the tube will try to dig in and will be uncomfortable. A firm grip on the tube that keeps the tube in place at the penis base will equalize these forces and allow you to control the tube and keep it from digging in. Be aware also that if the tube is trying to dig in to your body and is feeling uncomfortable that you are near or at the maximum negative pressure you should be using and could be taken as a cutoff point to stop pumping. Continuing to pump after a full erection is attained will cause big time discomfort and in my opinion isn't going to speed up the time line to improvement. Your body will tell you when to stop pumping with tightness inside the tube and the tugging sensation of the tube trying to dig in to your body. I doubt you have caused any more damage; just think moderation with the pump, and control that small tube with the other hand and you should be fine. (Plus, all that Tim says below).
Title: Epsom Salt
Post by: bodoo2u on August 20, 2007, 10:08:04 PM
Thanks for the advice on how to prevent pulling, guys. You're always a huge help to me. I view the pages these days more than I sign on, but I'm here almost everyday. So tell me, can I put some epsom's salt in a cup of warm water and soak my member that way before stretching. I live with other people and I have to do my VED regimen in the wee hours of the morning, so it would be helpful if I could do everything in my room.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 20, 2007, 10:48:25 PM
Any soaking should probably be done in a bathroom to minimize spillage and water damage to the house. If you have an expectation of privacy in your home (I certainly do) then you chould be able to do what you want in the tub soaking. If you do not have a tub, you could do it in a shower standing up. If you chose to do it in your room - well, I have the same expectations of complete privacy in my bedroom. You might need to delinieate some boundaries for others  (ie don't just walk into my room), and enforce that with locks on your door. As a father, I find it safest to simply slide the latch on our bedroom door before pumping up (in my bedroom or bathroom) so a late night visit from the kidds will not freak them (or me) out.

Tim
Title: Re: NxNW
Post by: Liam on August 27, 2007, 08:54:03 PM
WELCOME!!!!

I am posting here to encourage you to consider using the VED.  The consensus favors it as a treatment.

Good luck and keep posting,

Liam :::practicing my Cary Grant impersonation::: (movie star in North by Northwest for the younger guys)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on September 01, 2007, 09:58:21 AM
I've just finished my 7th week on the VED protocol. I haven't noticed any changes in angle/size etc. so far, but for the past week I've been getting a rather pleasant tingling sensation along the top of my penis where the plaque is located. You certainly couldn't describe it as pain... more like a pleasant kind of sensitivity.

I'm not sure whether I should regard this as a good or a bad thing. It certainly feels OK. Has anyone else experienced this, or something similar??
Title: Don't pump it like a basketball...
Post by: ComeBacKid on September 04, 2007, 02:28:49 AM
Shrout,

I did the VED for six months, I did get a tingly sensation sometimes, at the very tip of my penis, I didn't like it, and never figured out what it was.  It went away after awhile and caused no damage.  My only concern with the VED is aggravating the plaque, I never seemed to do that in my case as my condition never worsened.  If I were you I'd tone down your pumping slightly, just to be extra safe.  There still is little scientific evidence on the VED, and most men will naturally have a tendency to want to "pump that sucker up!"

Comeback
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: BertCobb on September 05, 2007, 04:39:25 PM
I have discovered that my penile numbness is related to two things: 1) my chronic L5-S1 disk disease and 2) the Lyrica prescribed for the pain.  How many of you have also had back issues that might be related to Peyronies Disease?  Obviously, there are multiple causes for a problem that may seem like the same disease process.  Also, if using a VED, what is the best diameter tube to purchase?  How does one chose correctly to treat a deformity of the tip?  Can one purchase the rubber ligators separately?  Please advise.  The present VED sucks too much of scrotal material into the tube and that part does not need enlarging.  Thanks for the advice and counsel.  I shall not lose to ignorance!
Title: BertCobb, VED tube sizes
Post by: Angus on September 05, 2007, 05:29:00 PM
Consider adding a 1 1/2" inside diameter tube. This size results in a tight fit when erect and will stretch the penis longitudinally. When the erect penis is in the tube there isn't room physically to draw scrotal skin inside. This size tube is comfortable to use when not over-pumped. This tube could also be worked in to your protocol if you were to begin using the multi-tube therapy/protocol.

On the issue of suggestions for tip deformity therapy, I suggest you PM Old Man as he has been around the barn many times on this and has a very good handle on specific therapies and techniques to use for varied deformities.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on September 05, 2007, 09:00:23 PM
Dear BertCobb

I was fairly confused about the thinking behind the VED "protocol" until I tried it out. Although I am not at ALL certain that the timeline matters as laid out over 26 weeks, I do get the reasoning now behind using different sized diameter tubes.

The larger tubes exert a lateral stretch on the penile wall, and can help (though not a lot, I think) with dents focal scarring without deviation.

The narrower tube diameter allows the penis to fill, but not such that it can bend at all - it is forced straight (whereas in a larger diameter tube it can bend slightly within the looser confines of the bigger tube). But more than being "forced straight" by being inflated (erected?) inside a smaller than average tube, it also gets a longitudinal pull on the tissue. Basicly, after it fills out to the inner diameter, the only direction it can go is towards the vacuum.

The smaller tube thus exerts a direct "tug" on the end of the penis. Whether or not that helps it anatomically probably depends on the nature of the lesion, the length of time it has been affected, and the time it is treated. My bend was near the end and dorsally directed and is better now. The dents are not better, and I have developed one new one in the past year while using the VED. So the overall tradeoff is "better" for me, as less bend is better than more dent (if that makes sense!).

Now I am focusing on the role of testosterone and TGF Beta 1 on my own disease. I am going to see a urologist (finally...) and see if I can enlist him in a collaborative work to see if I can heal more. Good luck to you!

Tim
Title: bump won't go away
Post by: whygodwhy on September 09, 2007, 03:15:43 PM
hey guys - i stopped using the pump over a month ago because i developed a red raised bump on my shaft (and even experienced slight bleeding at the tip).  after a month without pumping it looks the same :-\  (although the area where i was bleeding looks completly healed :)) what can i do to make it go away?!    i've been putting a cream on it twice daily, i forget what its called cause its at my apartment...hydrozone or cortizone i think - ill have to check.  anyway, it helped the other areas but the bump remains! 

i think i will try that spoon method.  any suggestions?
Title: Re: WGW
Post by: Liam on September 09, 2007, 10:17:10 PM
What's in that spoon?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: whygodwhy on September 10, 2007, 05:32:32 PM
its just a cold spoon, in an earlier post you said rubbing it against the area would help...
Title: Re: Cold Spoons
Post by: Liam on September 10, 2007, 06:17:59 PM
So I did, a treatment for a hicky.

Alas,my fate, to be hoist by my own petard.
Title: Re: wgw
Post by: Liam on September 11, 2007, 07:13:21 AM
A red bump could be an ingrown hair, a zit, genital herpes or something else more serious.  Because it has been with you for so long, it would be advisable to see a doctor quickly.   I doubt it is related to using a VED.

BTW, the spoon thing was advice for a hickey (I remembered that from Jr. High School).  It was meant to be humorous - you know in a nostalgic way.  :-\
Title: Re: J - VED / Traction
Post by: Old Man on September 17, 2007, 04:34:00 PM
Quote from: j on September 17, 2007, 02:49:47 PM
I'm a pretty handy guy and I made a serviceable VED for way under $100.  I've been thinking about ideas for a simple stretching gadget, too.   Since my problem is curving and shortening from a longitudinal band, traction might help me more than the VED.


j:

The VED can and will stretch the penis in a lengthwise position if you use the small cylinder size. The Somaerect has three cylinders marked A, B, and C. The protocol calls for using all three during the first week of its schedule. So, since you made your own VED, you can always get a cylinder small enough to fit tightly around your penis so that it will be pulled out into the cylinder rather than expanding sideways, etc.

The purpose of using this small cylinder is to make the penis pull straight out from the body. Doing the required repetitions or cycles of pumping up and holding, releasing and repeating causes the penis to go through several cycles of "exercising. The constant changing of the tissue during these cycles is somewhat liken to doing exercises in the gym. The more reps ones does, the more the muscles are exercised.

However, the penis being of a smooth muscle tissue type does not lend itself to "repairing" the muscle tissue as it does in gym workouts. Therefore, one must continue the stretching exercises on a daily basis for longer periods of time to allow the penis to reform to its original shape and size before Peyronies Disease. The VED does not work for all guys, but there have a number that received at least some benefit from its long term usage.

IMHO, it is worth the trial and error method to establish if the VED would work for any individual. I believe that the majority of users can and will receive at least some benefit from VED usage. As I said earlier, the small cylinder must be used to creat the lengthwise pull necessary for resullts. In addition, patience must be practiced when using the VED. There are no overnight remedies with VED usage.

The above statements are only my considered opinion based on my personal experience with VED usage.

Old Man

Quote added and post moved from "Traction" by Hawk
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: j on September 17, 2007, 11:22:30 PM
OM, I actually am using a 1.5" cylinder as you describe, in hopes of getting some longitudinal stretching of the band, which would reduce the curve. I 've been doing it for several weeks, about 20 minutes total each time. 
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on September 18, 2007, 05:15:05 PM
j:

You are right, the small A cylinder of the Somerect is 1 and 1/2 inches I.D. It is tapered toward the pump end so that as the penis moves forward into the cylinder it becomes more confining and hopefully causes the penis to remain straight, etc.

If that cylinder is too large to give you a very tight fit when the penis moves forward into the smaller end, then you might would need one smaller. I have no clue if there is one available from the source of the VED. You might email them if that would be an alternative for you.

I don't recall all the particulars that you and I discussed on forum and in PMs, so you might to refresh my mind of which VED you have if it is not the Somaerect or Soma Correct.

Sounds like that you are on a good routine of exercises though, so keep those up.

Old Man
Title: my VED
Post by: j on September 18, 2007, 05:52:25 PM
OM, it is one that I made. The cylinder is a straight tube (no taper) of 1.5" ID. 
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on September 18, 2007, 09:00:10 PM
j:

OK, try to get a smaller cylinder from the source you got the ones you are now using. Maybe a 1 and 3/8 inch one would be better. At any rate you want one that restricts the diameter in the early stage of VED therapy. The 26 week Soma therapy schedule is designed around using three cylinders as you already know. The regimen of that protocol calls for using the smallest to start with and upgrading to the larger ones as the weeks pass by, etc.

Your cylinders not being tapered will not allow for the penis to be actually decreased as it fills out the cylinder in length. You will have make some adjustments to the protocol to allow for that. These you will probably have to work out on your own trial and error basis.

Good luck and hope that you can get adjusted soon.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: j on September 19, 2007, 10:12:23 AM
OM, the 1.5" cylinder gives a tight fit.  I didn't know about tapering, though.  Not quite clear to me what that accomplishes... how is the 'stretch' different?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on September 19, 2007, 10:50:55 AM
j:

It is a little confusing when we talk about the tapered cylinder. All of the VEDs that I own have tapered cylinders. This only means that one end is smaller than the other one. One of my VEDs has the small end where it fits over the penis. The other two have the tapered (smaller) end where it mates up with the pump assembly.

The Somaerect VED that I have uses tapered cylinders for all three. The large end fits over the penis next to the body and the small end fits onto the pump. Since you made your own VED, your cylinder(s) are not tapered. The tapering allows for the penis to be forced into a smaller opening as the blood is drawn into the peniis. As the vacuum pressure is increased, the penis is drawn further up into the tapering and makes the penis conform to a straighter condition.

After using the small cylinder for the prescribed time in the 26 week protocol, you move up the the larger cylinders which allows for expanding in girth as well as length. The largest cylinder allows for full expansion of the penis during pumping and gives a full erect condition, etc.

Maybe the above will give you a better feel for what I am talking about. Feel free to ask any and all question that you may have.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: BertCobb on September 19, 2007, 10:57:28 AM
The purpose of the tapered cylinder is a matter of physics.  The purpose of using lubrication is to diminish damage to the skin and to assure a good seal.  One might suppose that the erect base of the penis will be grasped by the opening area and the penis prevented from impacting on the pubic bone (ouch).  The tapered cylinder is intended to force a longitudinal pull on the rest of the penis and force a straightening and lengthening.  The taper allows for a gradual expansion to "grip" the sides of the cylinder like an inclined plane.  The size of the cylinder is important so that a tight fit is maintained without damage to the base.  The caveat to not "over pump" is important.  Rome was not built in a day and neither was a penis "rebuilt" by impatience.  Biological systems require the element of time.  Since each degree of damage is different from case to case and from lesion to lesion, your time may be at variance with the experience of every other person.  Tissues expand better if they are warm as in a warm bath or a heating pad prior to pumping.  Beware of pain which indicates that potential damage is being done.  Follow the protocol and follow the forum.  Patience is rewarded.  "Slowly, slowly, catchee monkey."
Title: Oh My GOD!!!!
Post by: bodoo2u on October 26, 2007, 01:27:45 PM
It was time someone brought VEDs back to the board, but I didn't want to do it like this. After some time using the traction device I decided to check my progress with the VED, mainly to see if I had regained some length. Well, it seemed that about two weeks ago I was easily geting to 5 1/2 inches after only a few pumps, when before I had to warm up and work my way up to that length. Last night I tested my length again and after some time I could get to 5 3/4, which is where I was before Peyronies Disease.

I guess it got kind of good to me and I continued for some time, holding my stretches for a minute and a half. Anyway, when I finally took off the pump for the final time the vein that circles my penis at the base of the head was seriously swollen, I mean really fat. It has gone down today, but is a little tender.

I just wonder if that vein is central to carrying blood to the penis and if somehow it could eventually lead to venal leakage (sp).

Can anybody tell me what's going on. I know I need to do a little less pumping next time, but can anyone tell me the significence of that vein?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on October 26, 2007, 02:52:27 PM
boodoo2u:

The vein probably overextended itself due to the added pressure exerted during pumping. This can be a serious problem for you if continuing to pump rather high pressures. This is why that caution notes about this has been posted on the forum over and over. DO NOT OVERPUMP has been stated in all of my posts about any and all regimens and/or protocols for VED usage.

I really don't think that you have caused much damage with the vein if this is the first time you have seen this occur. If it has been occurring many times, you could be causing further damage. So, bottom line, just be careful to use only enough pressure to maintain a partial erection while doing the Peyronies Disease protocol/regimen, etc.

Moderation in pumping is the understatement of the year in any VED therapy. Regular VED therapy sessions every day, if possible, is the best approach to VED usage for Peyronies Disease.

Old Man
Title: boodoo2
Post by: Angus on October 26, 2007, 06:20:02 PM
Maybe one of our members that is more schooled in anatomy can say what significance that blood vessel is. And you realize that less pressure and pumping is in order from here on out. If you were pumping until penile skin is super tight you were probably pumping too much vacuum. No one's really mentioned this next thing, but I'm jumping in with it. There's probably not a man on here that's used a VED that hasn't experienced this scenario: While using the VED behind closed doors, an erection is obtained and the user wonders "well, if a few pumps produced THIS, I wonder what a few more pumps will produce", and curiosity to see if a yet bigger erection can be obtained takes over. A few more pumps and voila, you let off the pressure after a minute or two and behold the swelling taking place on the skin. This happened to me early on with the VED... thinking a few more pumps might produce the Louisville Slugger we all dream about. The swelling did go down after a day or so. I started keeping the vacuum down to a reasonable level (reasonable being no pain, skin not stretched super-tight and reasonable holding times, say 15-30 seconds). I'm not saying this is the case with you or any other members, I'm just throwing the scenario out there just in case so men can be on the lookout for this. More cycles with less vacuum per day, plus daily use without skipping days produced results for me. It's a scary thing to look down and see that swelling, but I too don't think you've damaged anything. Remember, with the VED, less is more (less vacuum = more results). A body part, whether it's a penis, arm, leg or whatever, responds to traction, a cast, pressure, vacuum or whatever therapy when it is ready to. I think you'll be fine. 
Title: Angus and Old Man
Post by: bodoo2u on October 26, 2007, 07:56:10 PM
Thanks for the words of encouragement and the sound advice. I felt a little stinging, but I thought it was the VED pulling on the plaque, which in my case runs the entire length of the right side of my penis. As a result of the plaque, if you can call it that, I'm more like a banana (but worse) than the upward bend that a lot of the guys describe here.

Can either of you, or anyone, tell me which situation is more prevalent; the banana curve or the upward/downward bend?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on October 26, 2007, 11:53:50 PM
boodoo2u:

I don't think that either one takes precedence over the other. There about as many with upward curves as there are with downward curves. Most consider banana curves to be congenital though.

Go to this website and you can view thousands of penises showing curves and bends of all kinds:

www.ejacu.com/

This site is not for those who have a weak stomach as it shows many pictures that some would consider to be porn. The site explains that it is published strictly for information and not for porn. It will give you a good insight about what many other men possess, etc.

Old Man
Title: Re: DAY-O, DAAAY-O
Post by: Liam on October 27, 2007, 07:18:09 AM
QuoteCan either of you, or anyone, tell me which situation is more prevalent; the banana curve or the upward/downward bend?
I suspect, due to the shrinkage componant of the condition, a plantain may be a better comparison for some.  :(

(http://www.australiantropicalfoods.com/images/Banana%20Variety.jpg)

A "banana" curve is not always abnormal.  I suspect more guys have a bit of a "banana" curve than don't.
Title: Re: Curve
Post by: Hawk on October 27, 2007, 08:26:40 AM
A well known Peyronies Disease doctor told me that a downward curve was no more than 10% of Peyronies Disease cases.  It is also not usually considered a candidate for Verapamil Injections
Title: Curve
Post by: bodoo2u on October 27, 2007, 05:45:13 PM
Believe me, my plantain/banana curve is not congenital. I was straight as an arrow before a dent and slight bend appeared overnight, just like that. The rest is... well, you know. I try not to drink alcohol because I think about it too much when I do. That's probably a sign that I haven't dealt with the situation on the level that I should have by now, which has been more than two years. But why confront it when I can't do anything about it.
Title: Re: VED's - how to get started
Post by: pal-31 on October 27, 2007, 11:10:11 PM
Dear all,

I am thinking about adding the VED to my treatment plan. I have a few questions, though, do I need a prescription ? could it be covered by insurance ? where do I buy it from etc..

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Pal
Title: Re: VED's - General Info
Post by: Liam on October 28, 2007, 07:38:02 AM
It is possible your insurance will pay if your doctor prescribes it for ED.  It is somewhere between difficult amd impossible to get insurance to pay with a prescription because of Peyronies Disease or with no presciption.

The two major brands are Augusta Medical and Osbon.  There are several other brands out there.  The three cylinder types (diameters differ) are popular here.

Read "Highlights of VEDs" for more good info.



Title: Re: VED's - Best Way to Use a VED
Post by: Ptolemy on November 04, 2007, 10:12:29 AM
The logic behind the daily use of a VED using the VacuumTherapy.org protocol seems sound to me (assuming I understand it) - gently (below a pain threshhold) and frequently (daily) stretching the plaque and the entire penis in a straight manner. The 3 sizes make sense as well, small to gain length, the large to gain width (especially in the hour glass area) and the middle size for well I guess closely resembling where I really want to get to.

So my question is why wouldn't a natural forming erection (using visual stimulants like erotic material or porn) assisted by the VED stretching be the best manner to "exercise/stretch" the penis to the state I would want to get to.

BTW, I've tried to read as many posts as possible to avoid the regulars here repeating themselves with answers and comments already posted. There is a lot here to get through.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: ocelot556 on November 04, 2007, 12:24:28 PM
I'm concerned with this as well, as my health insurance runs out next month and I worry about getting to a uro who will prescribe a VED for me in time (because - 500 dollars!? For a cock vacuum!?)

But I'm young and don't suffer from ED, knock on wood, so I generally get a few hardons a day. I try when I can to manipulate them to the opposite side of the bend, but I'm not sure if that's an exercise in vanity alone and that I'm just wasting time better spent with a VED (which is true anyway, from what I've seen and read here, but still...)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on November 04, 2007, 01:14:35 PM
My personal experience is that using porn runs the risk of helping one most in developing a porn addiction.

Having a "natural" erection doesn't seem to add anything to the erection induced by the VED. That is, the amount of stretch seems to be no different if I am aroused or not. One canfeel more blood angording the part of the erectile tissues that are not inside the VED chamber, but other than that, there is little difference.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on November 04, 2007, 01:29:12 PM
Ptolemy:

From my experience with VED usage, the difference between a natural erection and one induced with the VED is this:  A natural erection is brought about by only the amount of pressure that your heart normally pumps out. An erection induced by the VED is brought about by a pressure that is higher than the body pressure and therefore forces more blood into the areas that a natural one cannot reach. It usually reaches the areas beyond the hourglass effect and on into the head portion so the whole penis feels a similar amount of blood flow.

So, bottom line, if you are able to induce a natural erection, you should keep this in mind when using the VED. You do not want to use more VED pressure than is comfortable without feeling pain, etc. This is a caution that any and all should be keep in mind with VED usage.

Best to you, Old Man
Title: Ptolemy
Post by: Angus on November 05, 2007, 06:05:00 PM
Welcome to the board Ptolemy. Be persistent with your VED use. It took over a year of persistent use for me to get results. I think you're on the right track.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ptolemy on November 07, 2007, 08:15:20 PM
Thanks for the welcome and encouragement guys.

I feel like I wasted a good year on topical Verapamil. It was during that 14 month period that the plaque grew from a small pea sized lump to a rock the size of a quarter. I can't help but wonder if I would have been on the VED during that rapid growth period if the VED would have stretched the plaque such that today I would have less bend. Since using the VED (9 months now), there has been additional growth so I can't be sure that it has helped although as I mentioned below, the theory behind it makes sense to me.

What is the opinion of any of you that have an opinion on the use of a VED when plaque growth is taking place? Would you recommend a VED at the initial onset of Peyronies or wait until it somewhat stabilizes?

And have any out there had bad experiences with VED's?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on November 07, 2007, 11:49:14 PM
Ptolemy:

IMHO, the best time to start VED therapy for Peyronies Disease is at the initial onset and diagnosis. I wasted many years trying just about everything that included all the old wives tales, etc. At one point, even x-ray treatment was tried (45 3 minute bombardments) which did absolutely nothing. It is my belief that the quicker VED therapy is started, the better off one is with their therapy/treatment.

Yes, many of us have had at least one bad episode with VED usage. That is why you will see a caution note from any and all of us about using too much vacuum pressure with the VED. Overpumping the pressure can and will lead to edema of the foreskin (if not circumcized) and/or edema of the shaft skin. It can also cause the surface veins to be overextended and possibly rupture. So, bottom line, use our experience to keep out of trouble.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ptolemy on November 08, 2007, 10:49:05 AM
Thanks Old Man. I understand the wisdom of caution and patience. More specifically though, has there been any adverse affect on the plaque using the VED? i.e. Speculation that VED usage may have triggered or in some manner fostered plaque growth. If no, it would seem to me that with prudent use of the VED there are no documented down side cases or horror stories.

I'm concerned about the size of my plaque. It has increased slightly since VED usage but the plaque may not be as hard. It's too early to tell and because I feel it multiple times every day, any change is based on what I can remember from previous months (is the plaque bigger or is it my imagination?)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on November 08, 2007, 12:43:15 PM
Ptolemy:

I can't speak for everyone about adverse effects of VED usage. In my case, there were none. My plaque was about the size of a quarter on the right side of the shaft. VED usage over an extended period of time did away with it. Then several years later, another plaque nodule appeared on the left side. My uro injected a number of verapamil shots into the plaque which seemed to aggravate it and caused the size to grow. We stopped the injections and resumed the VED treatment. This time it took about 6 months to eliminate this plaque.

Along with the VED therapy, I took large dosages of vitamin E, some C and a multi vitamin each day. So, under my regimen of therapy, I did not have any adverse side effects from the VED.

As I said, the above is only my individual case. Each case of Peyronies Disease has its own characteristics, so you have to look at the overall picture when considering VED therapy. Just remember that any treatment you do might could be beneficial toward reducing the symptoms. So, each person has to decide his approach to any therapy. Another consideration in the Peyronies Disease equation is the age that a person "gets" the problem. The older a man is, it seems to be harder to find an effective treatment, etc.

Be glad to help in any way, so feel free to ask any and all questions.

Old Man
Title: Cheaper Alternatives to Soma?
Post by: hector on November 30, 2007, 07:00:17 PM
Does anyone know of a comparable but more affordable alternative to the $600 SOMAErectStf vaccuum erection device.  I have a limited income and no insurance, but would like to give VED a shot.
Title: Over the County "Vitality" Model?
Post by: hector on November 30, 2007, 07:06:31 PM
I just noticed Augusta Medical Systems offers and over the counter VEDl they call the "Vitality" system.  Does anyone have experience with it, relative to the more expensive prescription VEDs?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on November 30, 2007, 10:51:13 PM
I tried one of the over the counter VED's and it did not work well.
Uro Rx for Augusta Medical Ved with custom fit by the rep in his office was $450.00
I was not on medicare at the time and paid out of pocket. The Augusta Medical is far superior to the OTC one.
My .02 Cents
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on December 01, 2007, 10:26:13 AM
hector:

I endorse jackp's post to you. The Vitality VED would work fine if you were only going for erections. The Somaerect with the three cylinders is far superior to the one cylinder model VEDs. I have three VEDs, the Osbon Classic manual, the Osbon Esteem manual, (both of which are the one cylinder type) and, the Somaerect manual model. I had the best results using the Somaerect unit. However, if finances are of concern for you, you can make your own VED as Angus and Dr. Tim have done. Check back on the child board topics for how they did it, etc.

The three cylinder manual model should be the best choice for therapy for Peyronies Disease since it provides varying degrees of vacuum pressure as well as varying degrees of "confinement of the penis" in the small and medium sized cylinders. The 26 week protocol is designed to give the best overall therapy for Peyronies Disease based on my long term usage of VEDs.

So, as jackp says, I prefer the multi cylinder model VEDs for Peyronies Disease therapy. Most insurances will kick in some payment if the VED is prescribed by a uro or family physician with documented evidence of Peyronies Disease. Be sure to ask about that if you decide on using the VED and you visit your doc again.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on December 01, 2007, 11:20:25 AM
jackp,

Would you be willing to share what model you tried? Either here or in PM would be fine with me - but I think it is important for us to share what we found helped and what hurt, and why.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on December 01, 2007, 04:05:18 PM
Tim
The VED is the Augusta Medical System model EP3038. I only have one cylinder because of the custom fit in the Uro's office by the VED Rep. I have stiff fingers so I recommend the battery powered model.
A tip, the Wal-Mart brand gel works just as well as the expensive ones.  :)
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on December 01, 2007, 11:35:10 PM
Thanks Jack,

I was also interested in which one was "over the counter" that wasn't good.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Kimo on December 11, 2007, 10:14:05 PM
Hey Guy's, thought i'd report on my progress..I recently reported that i was hit with this disease now for the 3rd time,,didn't really bend this time but my penis looks really deformed....So i have taken the advise of Oldman and gotten on the wagon and have been using my Osbon Esteem VED....And i can say,,i don't know why i waited so long to get started.

In one week i have already noticed a big difference, i am already longer and bigger in girth than i have been in a long time. I will follow Oldman's instructions that he has provided, he is a wise old owl......everyone should take his advise, he really is trying to help all of us. He said to get the lube at walmart, i did,it was 2.00 a tube...

Since my wife is so bad ,,,she was just schedualed this week for a major back surgery in January, it's pretty much impossible for us to have intercourse, so now with the ved it has made it possible to masturbate and relieve some pressure, i'm really glad for Oldman's advise.

Thanks Oldman,,,,,your great. I will keep you all posted with my progress.

kimo
Title: Kimo
Post by: Angus on December 12, 2007, 11:31:16 AM
Good for you and glad to hear this. Stick with the program. After a few weeks you might hit a wall with the therapy where you think nothing much else is being accomplished. Remember how important it is to stay committed at all costs to daily VED use. Significant relief may well take longer than the 26 weeks so stay with it... if you do I'm sure a bigger payoff is down the road. This has worked well for Oldman, myself and others.
Title: VED construction
Post by: Angus on December 12, 2007, 12:02:35 PM
VED construction hadn't been talked about here for a while, so this post is to make the subject a little more visible. It is possible to make a VED at home and you don't have to be rich to buy the parts. I have made VED's for myself that work great and Tim468 has made them as well. They are simple devices with no magic involved in their use. Below is a link to my post from a while back that describes how my VED's were made. All of them are safe to use. Tim has several posts back in this thread dealing with VED construction as well. The bottom line is: If you can't afford the $200US or so for a prescription VED, you can make one at home for a fraction of that amount of money.


https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,25.msg2539.html#msg2539
Title: Re: VED Construction
Post by: Hawk on December 12, 2007, 12:19:30 PM
If someone will track Tim's links and supplier links/post down (like maybe Tim  ;D ),  I will make a post in the Resource Library that has all the VED construction links in one easy to find Post that has its own topic.  These tend to get lost even in the "Newly diagnosed board.

Title: VED does work
Post by: ComeBacKid on December 12, 2007, 10:09:59 PM
I noticed improvements mainly in flaccidness after 4 months on the program using the soma correct.  After quiting pumping, my results disappeared after about a month.  I do believe the ved is credible, and have heard enough guys say it works, key is to take it really slow, results will trickle in, and won't be seen for weeks.  Be patient and don't p ump that sucker up like a basketball! 

good luck,

comeback
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: antony on December 12, 2007, 10:37:05 PM
For the guys who say VED therapy does work, do you use it to improve a curvature or regain size, or for recover from impotence (i dont know individual cases of evrery one here) ?
Title: Antony
Post by: Angus on December 12, 2007, 10:46:33 PM
The VED will improve curvature given enough time, and will help with size improvement by way of better blood flow, but will not make you bigger than what you were born with. I did not have impotence, just Peyronies Disease, but blood flow and erection function did improve for me with VED use. The VED therapy helped me go from a 45+ degree angle to well under 10 degrees which is less than some congenital curves guys have, so I call my VED therapy a success. Old Man... your turn!
Title: Re: VED
Post by: pal-31 on December 12, 2007, 11:02:14 PM
Guys,

Would you please share with us how you got your VED. Did you get a prescription ? did the insurance pay ? did you order over the net and recive it in the mail ? or you had to get it at the pharmacy etc.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Pal
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Antony
Post by: Old Man on December 12, 2007, 11:07:13 PM
antony et al:

I agree with the previous post by Angus about what VED exercise therapy can do for one's Peyronies Disease syptoms. In my case, it brought my Peyronies Disease to a standstill and at the moment with no sign of Peyronies Disease. It gave me back the lost dimensions that developed with the Peyronies Disease after a radical prostatectomy in 1995. I had a 45 degree downward and a 45 degree curve to the right. The bend(s) occurred about midway down the shaft when flacid as well as erect. It took about 6 months of daily VED exercises to see any results and another 6 months to get rid of the remaining symptoms.

However, since a non nerve sparing radical surgery left me totally impotent, the VED is the only means of achieving an erection. It gives me the best erections I ever had. The therapy is still done three or four times a week just to keep what I have gained back from its use. As ComeBacKid says, if the maintenance therapy schedule is not maintained, one can lose what has been gained through the VED use.

In my experience over the past 13 years since the radical surgery, I have worked with many guys on and off this forum with VED therapy. There only a few cases that I know of that did not benefit in some way with their VED usage. Some gained a lot, others gained somewhat and only one or two failed to realize any help. This could have been due to the fact that they did not adhere to a daily schedule of exercises.

As Angus stated, blood flow is the key to a health penis. So, anything that promotes better blood flow on a regular basis can and will improve penile health.

Old Man
Title: Re: Angus
Post by: antony on December 12, 2007, 11:11:00 PM
Ok thanks, i know it will not give bigger size than when you were born (it's ok i had good size before the accident), but can it help to regrow as original size or about? As for me i don't have a big curvature, even a little one, but a very big shrinkage of size and impotence.
I will try to get the soma erect , Old man has already spoken to me about that, but i was (for the moment) rejected by the prices.
And my goal is to recover erections, i would do it in this direction, not only make better a curvature, coz it's not really my problem, but i was asking myself it if was good for Peyronies Disease or for all types of impotence by total fibrosis. But i was told it could create more scars too, so i'm really in doubt. What is sure is, as Old man says, if i do nothing now, it wont recover by itself and could stay like that for life. At the point where i am, even if it makes more scars, its worth to try it. I will try to get this soma erect so.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on December 12, 2007, 11:17:35 PM
pal31:

My VED was prescribed by my uro after my radical prostatectomy since it was a non nerve sparing one. It left me totally impotent. Since I am on Medicare with supplemental insurance coverage, it was paid for my those insurances. The uro group that I use had the VEDs for sale through their office with a factory qualified technician who taught me how to use it properly.

All medical quality VEDs must be prescribed by a physician. As far as I know, any and all prescriptions for a VED must be for ED therapy. They have been turned down by most insurance companies for Peyronies Disease. Over the counter type VEDs are usually not of good durable quality and soon fail so be careful if you should choose one of those.

Most insurance companies will pay at least a portion of the cost if prescribed by a physician or urologist. I would suggest that if you are considering purchasing a VED that you query your insurance company as to whether or not they will pay for one for ED.

There are several good medical quality VEDs on the market. I will not name any company or companies on the forum to perserve the integrity of its policy against that, but will be glad to furnish my known sources in PMs though.

Also, one can make their own as Angus and Dr. Tim have done. Prior posts on this topic lists the link to how they made theirs.

Old Man
Title: Re: Old Man
Post by: antony on December 12, 2007, 11:18:35 PM
Thanks, i had not seen your answer i posted mine just when you had posted yours.

But the thing i'm not sure: i understood that i had helped you a lot with Peyronies Disease symptoms, but: did you have the impotence with these Peyronies Disease symptoms, impotence by fibrosis? i know you had total impotence after the prostate surgery, but before? The same as Angus, had it helped you to correct the curvature, or to recover some erections lost by Peyronies Disease ?

I would be ready to do it daily if it really helps. What makes me doubting is that, on all sites that deal with fibrosis, they tell 'if fibrosis lead to total impotence' (like a Peyronies Disease when very well developed, or a bad scarring after a shock like me or Ron, or after a priapism like PainIsGrowth), the only solution is implant. VED is not mentionned as a solution.

Also, is that normal that penis size continues to decrease regularly?? has somebody had it (expet Ron who i know is the same)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/fibrosis
Post by: Old Man on December 12, 2007, 11:27:38 PM
antony:

I have had Peyronies Disease since the age of 24. During those past 54 plus years, have had just about any symptom you can think of with this mess. It has occurred and regressed several times during that period of time.

Yes, my impotence occurred as a side effect of the non nerve sparing radical surgery. It was never experienced before the surgery nor from fibrosis of my penis.

Have never had as much fibrosis as you seem to exhibit. I do firmly believe that using a VED on a moderate basis can and will help with better blood flow through your corporal chambers. Whether or not it would help with your fibrosis, I have no clue. You would just have to try using the VED on a regular daily basis over a period of time to determine if the exercises will help.

Old Man

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: antony on December 13, 2007, 12:08:53 AM
Ok thanks Old Man, i knew you had Peyronies Disease young but i was not sure if you had suffered from ED by Peyronies Disease or fibrosis.
I will try but my penis has changed so much anatomy and consistance (even the sperm has totaly changed of look, constitution, etc, i dont know how it is possible i'm disgusted) that i dont see how it could return to normal, but i will see for order soma erect as soon as i can.
Title: Re: VED's and Sperm Changes
Post by: Liam on December 13, 2007, 03:49:37 AM
Quoteeven the sperm has totaly changed of look, constitution, etc, i dont know how it is possible i'm disgusted

Maybe something else is going on. I'd report this new symptom to your urologist.  I've never heard of this related to Peyronies Disease.  I don't think a VED will help sperm production  :(
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on December 13, 2007, 07:00:25 AM
old man & antony
My 100% ED is from fibrosis, scar tissue, in the corporas.
My loss of size is from the Peyronies and fibrosis. I have lost about 1 inch or 3cm that brings me down to 4.5 inches in the VED. I can not use the constriction bands they are too painful with the fibrosis.
Do Not get over zealous with the VED, I did and caused penis skin erosion that took 3 months to heal.
Old Man you are the VED Pro. right now I use the VED about 4 days a week to keep what I have while waiting on the Implant. Try not to over pump and cause skin erosion again. What do you recommend?
My Uro#2 did make the comment after the failed implant procedure about my fibrosis, he said, "no wonder you have so much trouble getting an erection."
Uro#2 also said that the fibrosis was made worse by the tri-mix shots. He believes that the PGE1 in the shots is a cause of fibrosis in patients with Peyronies. (Wish Like #$%^^ he had told me that before he gave a script for trimix.)
My advise to anyone with Peyronies DO NOT DO SHOTS FOR ERECTIONS. In my case the shots did not work even full strength at 100 units.
Even with my troubles I feel blessed in some ways. Old Man had Peyronies at 24. My curve started at about 52 and corrected about a year later with Vitamin E and Potaba. Stupid me thought I was rid of Peyronies Disease but it went to the corporas and started fibrosis there. I have not had cancer only BPH which Saw Palmetto keeps under control. If we look there is a bright side to everything. Going to a new uro next month and I understand that he teaches the implant procedure at least once a week.
This is getting too long. You guys have a good day. Rain is only Liquid Sunshine.
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on December 13, 2007, 09:48:23 AM
jackp:

I underscore what you said in your post about injections to one's penis. Know from experience that any invasion in the erectile tissue with a needle can and will cause problems. After my verapamil injections, I developed Peyronies Disease all over again after getting rid of the symptoms for the most part. My statement is this: NEVER GET INJECTIONS IN YOUR PENIS UNLESS IT IS ABSOLUTELY DEEMED NECESSARY!

Now, having said that, I agree with you about the implant. Read with much interest your PM to me about your history with ED. ED is becoming more and more of a problem for many guys. I just wish that I could get the message out to all young men around the world - "take good care of your manhood while young so that you won't develop the problems we now face as we get older."

Let me know if there is ever anything that I can help you with.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: antony on December 13, 2007, 02:08:56 PM
Liam : i spoke about that to urologist; he just says 'it's ok don't worry' what can i do , i have no force now, doctors are about all the sames in this sphere of medicine, i did a spermoculture (no bacteria found) but it's not a problem of bacteria, it's the 'structure', the 'looking', the 'consitution' of the sperm which has changed, before it was like fluid and went out from penis in 'ejection', with 'force', now , when i arrive to the moment of ejaculation, the penis becomes incredibly hard, as if it was 'congestioned' in every tissues, and the sperm just goes out from urethra slowly, with no force, not in expulsion, and with a crazy 'structure', it looks like piece of glue, if it continues like that, i bet i will never be able to have kids, it's like 'non fertile' sperm. Don't know what is there, coz doctors say nothing , i put pressure on the last one, he just told me to do a new spermoculture, pffff. Anyway i know VED will not help for that. Only my generalist doctor thinks maybe because of the torsion/twisting of penis, maybe urethra is no more right inside, and so also twisted, so the sperm can't be ejected by a 'right' way, but follows the twisting in expulsion, so can't be ejected with force, but it does not explain the structure of it. It's as if all my penis was rotten, from inside and outside.

Jack P : but i have a question : what exams did you pass to be sure it was fibrosis (even if we know it,  but do you have a medical exam proof?? Like echo doppler, or MRI, or anything, that SHOWS this crap fibrosis?)?
I doubt of VED for the reasons you mention, that i'm scared to create penis skin erosion, i have enough problem like that, and not sure it's useful to recover natural erection and original size. I bet it's useful for correct a curvature or help in a 'classical' Peyronies Disease, but my case leaves me skeptical.
Do you feel with your hand the fibrosis in your corpus cavernosa, or does the urologist feel them?
You say PGE1 injections are no good for fibrosis (i don't use them anyway, i only had 2 of them for making doppler and test), but i was told they are often given to people after prostate cancer and surgery, in order precisely to prevent from fibrosis?

Anto
Title: Re: Antony, VED's and Sperm Changes
Post by: Angus on December 13, 2007, 05:19:28 PM
Quote from: Liam on December 13, 2007, 03:49:37 AM
Quoteeven the sperm has totaly changed of look, constitution, etc, i dont know how it is possible i'm disgusted

Maybe something else is going on. I'd report this new symptom to your urologist.  I've never heard of this related to Peyronies Disease.  I don't think a VED will help sperm production  :(

   Dehydration will cause thickening of spermatic fluid... if you're not drinking enough water this will happen and it will become thick and "dribble" out. Drink lots of water... many glasses a day not only for this but for general health. Coffee and soda pop doesn't count... water is needed. If this continues, I'm with Liam... report this to your urologist so he has all the information... the more you tell him... like Everything you notice, increases his chances of figuring out what's going on with you. I'm certainly not a doctor, but dehydration has caused this with me in the past. Tell your uro Everything.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: antony on December 13, 2007, 05:55:47 PM
Thanks for advice Angus.I think i drink lot of water, but maybe not enough.
I told urologist but he seems to doesn"t mind so much 'dont worry, dont worry'.
I admit it's makes bad effect to see this thing.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on December 13, 2007, 11:02:14 PM
Not sure this relates at all to VEDs...

Low "sperm" output (we are apparently talking about semen which contains sperm) is often due to retrograde ejaculation wherein semen goes East instead of West - it goes backwards up into the bladder where it mixes with the urine. A diagnosis can include a urinalysis after ejaculation to see if sperm are mixed in the urine.

Another reason is a low testosterone count. In the face of a rapid fibrosis, I would worry more about what the testosterone level was.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: antony on December 14, 2007, 02:08:14 PM
In fact the theory is that coz the penis is damaged, so the urethra is maybe no more 'right' too, and that the sperm can't be ejected normally, following a 'right' way, but a way in 'diagonal'. And we don't know why the 'structure' has changed.

But here is not a case of retrograde ejaculation (often caused by medicine like alpha-bloquant used in prostate adenome), my ejacultation does not goes up into bladder, it goes out by urethra, we can see it, but not ejected, just like 'drop after drop', and with a very disgusting 'hard-glue' structure.
I bet it deals with the penis damage, coz 2 persons who have had exactly the same problem i have, appeared in the same circumstances, also have this symptom, with no answer from doctor.

I will re-chek my testosterone but the other day when i did the blood analysis, it was all normal (after, was it well done? i don't know, but the laboratory told me all blood analyses -and testosterone level- are normal -and better than that:despite the fact i eat often sweety things (sugar) -i say that coz i saw a post on food-, my levels of cholesterol was really low, so it seemed to be ok here too)
Title: Re: Antony
Post by: George999 on December 14, 2007, 03:44:14 PM
Antony, FYI there is simply no "right way" for sperm to be ejaculated nor is there any special consistency to the ejaculate itself.  These vary from person to person and they will change many times during your lifetime.  Worrying about them is a waste of time and psychological energy.  The main thing to be concerned about is to get both your PSA tested and your prostate physically checked anally on an annual basis.  And you should periodically check your own testes for abnormal lumps or changes.  Other than that, rest at peace.  - George
Title: Re: George
Post by: antony on December 14, 2007, 05:29:06 PM
George, it was maybe coz of my english, what i wanted to mean by 'the right way', was more 'straight away' (the direction). I mean: before my penis was pointing right and straight away so ejaculation followed this 'straight way', now it is damaged,there is like a torsion (twisting), like a form of the letter 'S', so the sperm, instead of going straight away, follows the 'S' and so is ejected with no force at all, but drop after drop. For the change of structure, it's both strange and disgusting, and happened really after my penis trauma, but no doctor knows.

For the prostate, i had 'rectal touch' (by 2 diferent uros and neurologist too) who said prostate is soft, no painful, normal size, so probably does not come from that. They told me PSA was more in suspission of cancer, but at my age and after 'clinical' exam with finger, there was no chance of that.

But what makes worry is that all hapenned at the same time after this shock, and if one day i recover erection or normal penis (what is not evident now far from it), i feel as if i could be sterile (non fertile sperm) too.
Title: Re: George
Post by: Dani on December 16, 2007, 02:39:38 PM
Quote from: antony on December 14, 2007, 05:29:06 PM
George, it was maybe coz of my english, what i wanted to mean by 'the right way', was more 'straight away' (the direction).


Hello!! I am italian boy
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: california on December 17, 2007, 01:43:13 PM
Hi everyone,

I am looking to buy an Osbon Esteem (despite a recent appointment with my uro suggesting I would cause more damage by using it.  Once again, a lack of significant research leads to hearing opposite opinions from professionals in the field).  Because he was not all that positive on me using it, we didn't get into a great discussion about it so I was hoping someone could recommend a place for me to purchase it.  Also, do I need a prescription to purchase one or is that only for insurance reimbursement purposess?

Also, if my problem is primarily waisting and ED, is the Osbon a good bet?  If so, what kind of price should I expect to pay for a unit?

Sorry for the multiple questions - mainly looking for a recommendation of a reputable site to purchase a VED.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: antony on December 18, 2007, 05:18:05 PM
Hi California,

it's the same for me, one doctor tells me to use it (like advice from Old Man or other persons here); and other one, "good' specialist too, tells me NOT to use it, not because it would be useless,but because it will damage more!! (i dont see how we can damage more).
But it's sure if we do nothing, it will not change of condition...
So i ask myself same questions, even if i think its really worth to try it.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: youngPD on December 18, 2007, 05:34:11 PM
To Antony and California:

Just like you two I have heard contradicting opinions about the VED in our condition.I would say that putting the constriction ring looks to me as likely to induce further damage,while pumping VERY LIGHTLY may supposedly help  a bit.

Anyhow ,be it a good option or not,having no variety of REAL solutions ,what else can we do ??
Title: Antony, California, youngpd....
Post by: Angus on December 18, 2007, 06:30:08 PM
Any VED or restriction ring has the POTENTIAL to cause more damage, but only potential. As recorded by many here, the VED used responsibly and carefully will not damage anything. The VED is a simple treatment that is easy to learn... and all the dangers and things NOT to do are recorded here on the forum, and if you have questions you can't find answers to, many of us are only a post away from answering. The VED has provided many men relief without any damage because they read about techniques and therapy, and asked questions. It is hard at first to put aside any images of the sex toy type VED's with their associated pictures, but this you must do. The theraputic VED is a much different thing to use, and very safe when directions are followed. You must read everything here on VED use, and ask many questions... they will be answered, and this may help you decide if you want to follow the VED therapy. 
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ptolemy on December 18, 2007, 08:52:13 PM
I've been using a Sonoma VED for 10 months now with little change. However, it feels like it is good "exercise" for the penis and I believe that without it, I would be in worse shape. I follow the vacuumtherapy.org protocol but where the protocol calls for 10 cycles each daily session, I use the device for 15 to 20 minutes. That may be too much I don't know but I am cautious on the pressure and have never felt any pain or discomfort afterwards. 10 cycles just doesn't seem like enough each day. Any comments from those of you that have achieved results would be welcomed.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/method of use
Post by: Old Man on December 18, 2007, 09:21:30 PM
ptolemy:

As Angus says, VED use must be done in moderation and extreme care. Overpumping can and will cause more damage even if it is only to the surface skin. But, one does not want to do even that much damage.

By using the protocol, you are at least establishing a routine that you do the exercises. I see no problem with doing the exercises longer than the 10 cycles so long as you do not feel any pain or discomfort while doing the extra time, etc. Only you can determine what would be too much.

I have long since wondered to myself who so many guys simply hesitate to try using the VED therapy. From experiences that have been published on the this forum one should deduce that there must be some success to be had from VED usage. Each individual must decide what is best for himself though.

Anyway, the above is just the considered opinion of an old man who has been there and done that from over 50 years of coping with Peyronies Disease, ED, prostate cancer and other related men's sexual problems.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on December 19, 2007, 05:37:27 PM
Here is an article written by Tom Lue:

LENGTHENING SHORTENED PENIS CAUSED BY PEYRONIE'S DISEASE USING CIRCULAR VENOUS GRAFTING AND DAILY STRETCHING WITH A VACUUM ERECTION DEVICE

TOM F. LUE and AHMED I. EL-SAKKA

Abstract
Purpose: We evaluated the results of chronic intermittent stretching with a vacuum erection device after circumferential tunical incision and circular venous grafting in 4 patients with penile shortening from severe Peyronie's disease.

Materials and Methods

We performed complete circumferential tunical incision and covered the defect with a circular venous graft in 4 patients with shortened penis as a result of Peyronie's disease. Preoperative evaluation included determination of patient and partner expectations, potency status, measurement of penile length after intracavernous injection and color duplex ultrasonography to determine possible vascular communication. Lower saphenous, upper saphenous and deep dorsal veins served as graft materials. We advised patients to use a vacuum device on a daily basis for 6 months starting 1 month surgery. Postoperative evaluations were done at 6 and 18 months postoperatively.

Results

At 6-month followup 1 patient who did not use the vacuum device gained 1 inch in penile length and was not available for further followup. The other 3 patients each gained 2 inches but had decreased erectile rigidity due to narrowing in the grafted area (hourglass deformity). One patient who wanted a more natural erection elected penile prosthesis implantation about 1 year after grafting. The remaining 2 patients gained 3 inches at 18-month followup and regained partial penile rigidity similar to preoperative erections when the hourglass deformity improved. All patients were satisfied and indicated that surgery improved psychological well-being as well as relationships with partners.

Conclusions

The results in this small group are satisfactory. Our technique offers a reasonable solution for correction of penile shortening in patients with Peyronie's disease.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on December 19, 2007, 05:43:10 PM
Another article:

Effect of incision and saphenous vein grafting for Peyronie's disease on penile length and sexual satisfaction.

Yurkanin JP, Dean R, Wessells H.

Section of Urology, University of Arizona College of Medicine, Tucson, Arizona, USA.

PURPOSE: We determined the effect of incision and saphenous vein grafting on penile length, erectile function and overall sexual satisfaction in men with Peyronie's disease.

MATERIALS AND METHODS: A total of 24 consecutive men underwent plaque incision and saphenous vein grafting with postoperative daily use of a vacuum erection device. Erect penile length, pain, curvature and erectile function were assessed before and after surgery, and overall sexual satisfaction was scored from 1 to 5 by a validated instrument.

RESULTS: Of the 22 patients in whom adequate followup data were available mean penile length was increased 2.1 cm. as a result of surgery (p <0.001). Median score of overall satisfaction with sex life was 4 or moderately satisfied. Of the 86% of men who achieved sexual intercourse after surgery 54% used no erectile aids and 32% required sildenafil or intracavernous injection. Complete erectile dysfunction was present in 14% of cases. Patients who reported erectile difficulty preoperatively were significantly more likely to have erectile dysfunction postoperatively that required erectile aids. Arterial insufficiency on duplex Doppler ultrasound was associated with a higher likelihood of complete erectile dysfunction. Complications in 33% of patients included complete erectile dysfunction in 3 and significant persistent penile curvature in 1.

CONCLUSIONS: Incision and venous grafting of plaque leads to statistically and clinically significant increases in penile length in men with Peyronie's disease. Preoperative erectile dysfunction and cavernous arterial insufficiency were associated with a higher risk of postoperative erectile dysfunction. Nevertheless, patients reported a high degree of satisfaction with their overall sex life.
Title: Safety of the VED
Post by: Tim468 on December 19, 2007, 05:45:45 PM
As the above articles show, the VED has a role in the management of penile shortening after a surgery. And why shouldn't that happen after surgery? We have a tendency to do this - to shorten - from inflammation and surgery is a challenge to our system. Talk about trauma!

So the VED and some of the meds and steps taken (like the VED) that don't "fix" the Peyronies, may help the patient getting radical surgery later. And as many of us have shown, the VED does not hurt when done right.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: youngPD on December 20, 2007, 03:59:29 AM
To Tim :

First of all thanks for your effort and your valuable information.

I have some questions in case you could maybe help me with some of them:

In my country ,there's just one company who imports the VED ,and they have only the one cylinder VED.
'Old man' recommended using the three cylinder one ("soma erect" ?).I went into the company's site (the one who sells the "Some erect"), and sent them an email, asking whether they would ship outside the USA as well ,however they haven't replied.(2 weeks ago already)

Do you have any clue ,which source may ship it worldwide (what other alternative VED are recommended ?....I am not quite good at DIY constructions, so it looked kind of complicated for me trying to compose such a VED ,even after I've read previous posts about it).

Also: is there anyone on board who got some results like gaining back size WITHOUT using pills in conjunction with the VED (I am kind of scared to use Viagra or such, daily )?

Thank you all in advance for the answers,
Ron
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on December 20, 2007, 09:24:29 AM
Here is what I just did. I clicked on the little magnifying glass next to the search area. That took me to the advanced search. I searched for "VED" and "handpump" in the same pump posted by me and found:

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,25.msg5289.html#msg5289

That link takes you to the post that has cheaper (NOT "do it yourself" at all) VED options. You order the cylinder and the handpump and get going and you save a lot of money. Also, you can add larger cylinders as you go to spread out the costs.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on December 20, 2007, 10:21:02 AM
youngpd:

Since you have not heard back from the Somaerect company site, Send them another post and make it for the attention of Louis in Marketing and Sales department.

He should pick up on it and answer your post. Again, their website is:  www.augustams.com.

There is a site in the UK that markets the Somaerect, so you might want to do a search for it on Google or Ask.com. If I can help further, just let me know.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: youngPD on December 21, 2007, 01:13:00 PM
To Old man and Tim:
Thank you very much for your help.I will try to get the pump in the following days and hope it would works well for me.

All the best,
Ron
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on December 27, 2007, 04:03:31 PM
5 months into the 6 month protocol with a VED I've realised you don't actually need any lubricant on the inner end of the device in order to get a decent vacuum. You simply need a bit of experience in getting the correct angle, and not to press too hard. Strangely enough pressing too hard against the body seems to be as counter productive as not pressing hard enough. I found this out by accident, and it's going to save me a few quid. :)

As for my progress, I can't say there's been any dramatic change. I found it impossible to take accurate measurements at the start because the angle of deviation and the length of the penis changes with the strength of the erection. Once you achieve a full erection measurement becomes almost impossible, because it begins to subside as soon as you begin to measure. A partner would be useful here, but at present I don't have one, and I'm not about to ask my sister or a neighbour for help.  :-[  All I can say is that I believe thare has been a small improvement, and I'm suffiently encouraged to keep going with it, especially in the light of my recent discovery.

I found JJMNPI's post re. traction is very encouraging, and I'd very much like to try it along with the VED, but finances don't permit just yet.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hawk on December 27, 2007, 10:39:40 PM
Quote from: shrout on December 27, 2007, 04:03:31 PMI found it impossible to take accurate measurements at the start because the angle of deviation and the length of the penis changes with the strength of the erection. Once you achieve a full erection measurement becomes almost impossible, because it begins to subside as soon as you begin to measure. A partner would be useful here, but at present I don't have one....

Measuring your penis is a very simple matter that has been discussed here many times and as recently as a week ago.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on December 27, 2007, 11:09:06 PM
Well, Hawk, sometimes it is a moving target if you are unable to maintain an erection. I in fact measure two lengths; the erect length, and that I can get in a cylinder. I do not measure inches, but changes, using crude measures in the side of the cylinder (my finger breadths, on it, actually). Using a tape and measuring from the base can be hard if one's penis is sagging fast.

Tim
Title: The fail-safe method of measuring changes in penis length - one more time
Post by: Hawk on December 28, 2007, 11:11:09 AM
Quote from: Tim468 on December 27, 2007, 11:09:06 PM
Well, Hawk, sometimes it is a moving target if you are unable to maintain an erection. I in fact measure two lengths; the erect length, and that I can get in a cylinder. I do not measure inches, but changes, using crude measures in the side of the cylinder (my finger breadths, on it, actually). Using a tape and measuring from the base can be hard if one's penis is sagging fast.
Tim

I am shaking my head  ;D

I said in an earlier post that measuring changes in penis length is a very easy matter.  I said that because it is and I cannot begin to understand the confusion, controversy, or ongoing discussion for this straight forward issue.

The fail-safe method #1 of measuring changes in penis length

Stretch the flaccid penis first thing in the morning.  Maintain a log (no pun intended).  Changes in the loss or gain in erect length will be detected whether the change is due to tissue growth (more cells), elasticity, or cell size. Results are unaffected by degree of erection or losing erection during measurement since you have no erection.  Angulation is also not an issue with this method.


The fail-safe method #2 of measuring changes in penis length

Mark the straight tube of the VED in increments using a straight ruler.  Your VED now doubles as a ruler.  Of course it is only necessary to mark a couple inches near your current length in 1/4" increments.  Note how far you extend into the cylinder with a full erection.  Note the length at the beginning or the end of a session (same time in the session each time you compare length).  Since the VED gives and maintains a maximum erection while in the tube, there are no variables for "degree of erection, or losing an erection while measuring.


Use either method, or even both methods one day a week.

IT IS THE CONCLUSIVE, FAILSAFE, AND ACCURATE, METHOD OF DETERMINING LENGTH CHANGES!


aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.  I feel better  8)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on December 28, 2007, 12:09:19 PM
Sorry Hawk,

I can honestly say I've never come across ( pardon the pun  :D ) that information before... it may have been on a part of the site I rarely visit.

Whatever -- having just used method #2  I can say that I've lost approx. 1" in length since my pre-Peyronies days. And since I intend to continue using the VED for another 6 months, I can now keep an accurate record of any changes... which will be as valid as if I had done the same thing from 0 months to 6 months... no?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on December 28, 2007, 09:56:05 PM
The data on erectile length versus stretched length suggest that it is precise (that is, reproducible every time that you do it), and always will stay in a fixed relationship to the actual erect length (ie if you shorten an inch, the stretched length will also shorten an inch.

Reproducibility between subjects is more variable, though. Some stretch to their actual length, and some to about 2 cm less.

I think that issue many of us struggle with is not "how long", but a more qualitative picture that includes angulation, differences or changes in girth at different points (ie above and below an hourglass deformity), and how well it maintains blood on it's own. Stretching a penis or inflating it passively in a VED does not address any such questions.

Tim
Title: Re: Measuring Length
Post by: Hawk on December 28, 2007, 11:39:56 PM
My posts were addressing one issue.  Measuring changes in length, and the easy fail-safe method for doing so.

I also cannot accept that any penis will not stretch to erect length when pulled to the limit by holding the tip, but somehow would stretch further with blood pushing the tissue from the inside.  This is especially true since erection, if anything would take up tissue to fill out girth.  A tug to length is as long as a penis is going to get at that moment with a tug, a push, and erection, or a wish.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on December 30, 2007, 11:07:21 AM
Here is the article. I was off by a half centimeter

Penile Length in the Flaccid and Erect States: Guidelines for Penile Augmentation

Hunter Wessells, Tom F. Lue and Jack W. McAninch

"Mean flaccid length was 8.8 cm., stretched length 12.4 cm. and erect length 12.9 cm. Neither patient age nor size of the flaccid penis accurately predicted erectile length. Stretched length most closely correlated with erect length."

The attached figures show more. What you see is a good line of correlation beteen stretched and flaccid length. However, you will note that not all men fall right on the line, with a range of up to 1-4 cm differences in stretched and erectile lengths in individuals. Note that the "outliers" are more often longer when erect than when stretched - more dots fall farther above the line of unity than below it.

My point is that your message is correct, in general, but it is not correct for every individual. The attached figures demonstrate that.

I included other figures from the paper to show the lack of correlation between what you "show", and how much you "grow".

The first figure is used to show why it is that older men appear to be shorter - they have more fat there hiding it. Also, their stretched penile length is less than in younger men due to normal age-related loss of elasticity.



Tim




Title: Re: Reduction of Hour Glass deformity
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on December 31, 2007, 05:23:07 PM
Who out there has used a VED? do they actually help? (i honestly always just thought they were quackery)
it sorta makes sense though... does it help pull it outward?
..anyone have personal experience with them and can suggest a good one to purchase?

thanks!! ;D
Title: Re: Reduction of Hour Glass deformity
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on December 31, 2007, 05:30:35 PM
ohh... let me add regarding my VED question below...
  i'm not having any problem getting erections. i'm a young guy and wake up with erections pretty much every morning. and get them throughout the day. might a VED help with the bottle neck and general condition?

opinions?
Title: Re: Reduction of Hour Glass deformity
Post by: Old Man on December 31, 2007, 09:48:27 PM
getting_there:

Suggest that you select the VED topic in the Child Board section of the main forum. You will find a wealth of information regarding usage of VEDs in that topic.

Many of us have used the VED to great success. Others have seen no positive results. However, that should not deter you from using one even if it is just for helping keep your penis in a healthy state.

So, read all you can in the VED section suggest above. Then if you still have questions, there are many on this forum who can steer you in the correct direction.

Regards to you, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Kimo on January 01, 2008, 12:16:24 AM
Happy New Year everyone,,,just a short update on my VED usage..It's been about 3 to 4 weeks now and i have seen some improvement which is very encouraging...I have gained some length back but more noticable in the girth...I pump every morning after a hot shower for about 15 to 20 minutes...My girth is much bigger,,,especially when flacid more than ever before,,i'm happy with that..

This is just my experience and thought i'd share it .

Kimo
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: pal-31 on January 01, 2008, 01:59:23 AM
Happy New Year to everyone !

Kimo,

Congrats on the improvement. I am going to start with ved myself hopefully soon if the Dr. give me the prescription.

Quick question, I noticed, in a previous post, you also mentioned you are using the topical verpamil. Are you using the topical and ved currently ?

Hope you continue to see results
Pal
Title: Re: Reduction of Hour Glass deformity
Post by: Tim468 on January 01, 2008, 01:58:46 PM
Mr Oregon...

I think the jury is still out regarding the value of the VED for bottleneck of hourglass deformity. It has obvious helpfulness for the bends, but not as obvious *theoretical* value for the former conditions. Nevertheless, I think that Old Man is correct to suggest it will be generally helpful.

Tim
Title: Re: Reduction of Hour Glass deformity
Post by: Old Man on January 01, 2008, 02:20:29 PM
Oregon:

I agree with Tim generally about VEDs not doing much good for the hour glass deformity. However, in my individual case, it did reform the shaft in several places that I had the hour glass effect. Today, I have very little, if any, symptoms of Peyronies Disease. The only curve that I still have was the slight upward curve that is only congenital.

It took the greater part of a year doing daily stretching and "milking action" therapy to do the job. Overall, the VED proved to be the only therapy/treatment that did any real good for my Peyronies Disease sypmtoms.

The above is saying that the VED will relieve each and every case of Peyronies Disease. So, bottom line, each case of Peyronies Disease is just that - individual. Each person must find what works best for him.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Kimo on January 01, 2008, 05:41:42 PM
Pal,,,,I am not presently using the topical verapamil,but have used it in the past with very good results both times.....


I am presently using the VED as i was recently hit again for the 3rd time with peyronies,,,i'm not really bent this time but more deformed,,kinda the hour glass look, i am using the VED to help stretch the tissues and hopefully keep things from getting any worse,,, i believe it is working good for me....I do still use viagra for sex, whether it's with my wife or to masturbate.....

kimo


Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: pal-31 on January 01, 2008, 05:43:43 PM
Kimo,

Thanks for the info. I am going to private-message you if you dont mind

Thanks,
Pal
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jjmnpi on January 03, 2008, 07:47:55 AM
To All:
I've been using the Fastsize extender for 3 weeks now to stretch the scar tissue. I was thinking about combining that with a VED to promote blood flow to the areas. Any thoughts or opinions on this?

jjm
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 03, 2008, 11:06:42 AM
jjm:

Based on what I know about VED usage, I see no problem with combining the VED with the extender therapy.

However, one word of caution, just make sure that you experience no pain or discomfort when using the VED. Have no info on what you need to do about using the extender though. Overpumping pressure with the VED can and will cause further problems such as edema of the glans or foreskin, etc.

Keep us posted on what is happening if you decide to use both the items.

Old Man
Title: Re: Reduction of Hour Glass deformity
Post by: Ptolemy on January 08, 2008, 12:41:42 AM
Quote from: Old Man on January 01, 2008, 02:20:29 PM
It took the greater part of a year doing daily stretching and "milking action" therapy to do the job.

What do you mean by "milking action?" Were you massaging the penis from the base to the top? Do you feel it was helpful in your recovery?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/milking action
Post by: Old Man on January 08, 2008, 09:26:21 AM
Ptolemy:

OK, the milking action term is my own that I applied to a method of exercise that I did with the Osbon Esteem VED.

I purchased the inner/smaller sizing insert from the Timm Medical Div. of Endocare, Inc (present owners of the old Osbon VEDs). The Esteem came with a larger sizing insert which proved to be too large for my size, etc. Both innner and outer inserts provided a closer fit around the shaft of the penis so that more pressure buildup is allowed and felt more comfortable. You may or may not need additional sizing help.

Now to describe the milking action. It is sort of like milking a cow's teat only with the VED cylinder. This is how I did it: Get a good tight seal around the shaft of the penis, pump up to a fairly good erection, while holding this pressure at a moderate amount, move the entire VED assy, out from the body about an inch or two based on one's length, hold the increased pressure caused by this pulling action for a moment, let the VED pull back to the body, again holding the pressure and seal. Repeat this action on a steady pace for as long as you do the exercise, in my case, about 15 minutes a day, etc. You can increase the exercise time according to how you feel and not causinig any pain or discomfort. Caution is pumping is the watchword in any VED therapy exercises.

Hope this gives you a better insight of the exercise. If you have further questions, feel free to ask.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on January 08, 2008, 02:46:04 PM
Might try that milking action OM, now that I feel quite confident in my ability to manipulate the VED.

I'm wondering why we are told ( in the instructions for the SomaErect, at least ) that lube is required on the inner end of the VED in order to get a good seal against the body, and also to lube the inside of the tube as well as the penis every time. In my experience you can get a perfectly good seal using no lube whatsoever, and you only need to lubricate either the penis or the tube, not both, to get plenty of slide. Are they cynically trying to sell us as much of their expensive lubricant as possible? It makes me wonder.

What are other people's experiences in getting a good seal ?

Title: shrout, lube, VED's
Post by: Angus on January 08, 2008, 06:25:12 PM
   I would imagine that their reasoning for recommending so much lube is to help men who find the VED awkward get a better seal. For me, the smallest tube only needs about a half teaspoon of lube smeared around on the inside with a wet bottle brush for good lubricity; no lube is required on the penis; just circling the bottle brush around the tube opening provides plenty of seal. The larger tubes just need a small bit of lube smeared around the opening to get a good seal (for me). And for the brave souls, shaving a ring around the base of the penis bares up the skin where the tube touches and makes getting a seal a whole lot easier. I guess my anatomy isn't just right to get a perfect seal with no lube >:(  ;D but at least lube isn't required in the larger amounts you describe that are called for in your instructions.
Title: Re: VED's - Lubricant
Post by: Old Man on January 08, 2008, 07:43:04 PM
Angus and Shrout:

I have helped quite a number of guys with orientation of their VEDs when RXd by my local uro group. Many guys just don't want to bare themselves before a female technician trying to show them how to use the VEDs. So, my background with VEDs does cover a lot of demo work.

Saying the above to kind of back up my following statements about lube. The amount of lube needed is based on a person's anatomy down there. If one has a large penis he would need more lube than say a guy with less endownment. The main reason that the VED companies state that lube must be placed inside the cylinder as well as on one's penis is based on trials that are conducted using guys without any experience with VED use. As a person gets more and more familar with their VED, then they can modify the instructions to the point is works for them, therefore less lube may or may not work, etc.

Also, if a guy has not been circumcised, he would need the added lube to keep his foreskin and glans more lubed to prevent chafing and/or irritation. A circumcised guy would therefore probably need less lube, etc.

Shrout:

I use the Walmart Equate brand of person lubricant which comes in a plastic container of about 4 gel ounces and lasts quite a time for me. It only costs about $2.00 per tube and for me it works better than the high priced lube from the VED companies. Have been using the Walmart brand for about 10 or 11 years now with no problem.

As Angus says about using lube on the mouth of the cylinder for a better seal is usually recommended in the instructions. I find that one has to be extremely careful in lubing the penis so that none gets on the scrotum. This usually makes the scrotum pull up into the cylinder mouth which causes much pain. So use only enough lube on the mouth to get a seal and to prevent chafing or irritation during the therapy exercises. If you can get a good tight seal without lube and you have no pain without it, go that route.

Happy pumping and keep a daily routine for doing it.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Lubricant
Post by: Ptolemy on January 08, 2008, 09:43:24 PM
Quote from: Old Man on January 08, 2008, 07:43:04 PM

I find that one has to be extremely careful in lubing the penis so that none gets on the scrotum. This usually makes the scrotum pull up into the cylinder mouth which causes much pain. So use only enough lube on the mouth to get a seal and to prevent chafing or irritation during the therapy exercises. If you can get a good tight seal without lube and you have no pain without it, go that route.


Thanks again for all your help OM on many areas.

On your comment above I found this to be a problem using the large tube. I found a little more pressure (holding it more tightly to my body) during the initial stokes until my penis expanded at the base sufficient to fill the larger size tube was an adequate remedy.

I also found without lubrication inside, I would experience discomfort as the size - especially length - of the penis increased. So for me I like a lot of lubricant. Shaving cream works but is a little too runny.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 09, 2008, 10:46:59 AM
Ptolemy:

Glad that I said something that really helped for you. I would like to caution you about using shaving cream for lube though. It can and will cause skin irritation over a period of time, especially if you use the milking action type of VED therapy that I did. The faster moving of the cylinder up and down the shaft with shaving cream could cause a problem. You will just have to try it for a while to see what happens. The low price of the Walmart Equate Personal Lubricant makes it a viable option to the high priced ones the VED companies send with their units. I still recommend using plenty of lube for the Peyronies Disease regimen since the less friction there is, the better.

As I said in earlier posts, the shaving of the pubic hair eliminates a lot of problems with getting a seal. You do have to keep the hair shaved on a regular basis though. Not a bad price to pay for a good seal though.

If you continue to have a problem with the cylinder opening being too large, you might have to find some way to reduce it. Based on which model VED you have, the manufacturer should have several sizing inserts to help out.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: ocelot556 on January 13, 2008, 06:16:43 PM
I apologize if this is a question that has been asked before, but in relation to a VED - will the benefits of using one reverse if you stop use? That is, you use the VED for a few months and see some straightening. This is because of the chronic force applied to the scar tissue stretching it - but will that scar tissue contract again if the regimin is not continued?
Title: Re: Ocelot
Post by: Mick on January 13, 2008, 09:03:05 PM
Hi Ocelot:

I finished the 6 month program last Feb. with pretty good results.  Since then I have used it sporadically but not at all the last few months.  There have been  no changes, good or bad during this past year.  Hope this helps.

Mick
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 13, 2008, 10:47:20 PM
Ocelot:

I got rid of my Peyronies Disease using the VED after prostatectomy. I use it several times a week now just for maintenance in case the Peyronies Disease should take a turn to worsen. I am convinced that once a person has Peyronies Disease that it never completely goes away. Suppose that it may be in "remission" if that is a proper term for it.

Anyway, I know of no one who has reported return of their Peyronies Disease symptoms after quitting VED usage. That is, assuming that they saw results with its use.

Old Man
Title: Re: Ocelot, VED's
Post by: Angus on January 13, 2008, 11:11:55 PM
Quote from: ocelot556 on January 13, 2008, 06:16:43 PM
I apologize if this is a question that has been asked before, but in relation to a VED - will the benefits of using one reverse if you stop use? That is, you use the VED for a few months and see some straightening. This is because of the chronic force applied to the scar tissue stretching it - but will that scar tissue contract again if the regimin is not continued?

    I too used the VED to reduce the curve tremendously (45 down to less than 10 degrees). I too use the VED for maintenance weekly, but for various reasons have skipped the use of it for weeks at a time over the last couple of years. The curve has not gotten worse but has remained at it's corrected state.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ptolemy on January 14, 2008, 12:41:08 AM
Quote from: Old Man on January 13, 2008, 10:47:20 PM
Ocelot:

I got rid of my Peyronies Disease using the VED after prostatectomy. I use it several times a week now just for maintenance in case the Peyronies Disease should take a turn to worsen. I am convinced that once a person has Peyronies Disease that it never completely goes away. Suppose that it may be in "remission" if that is a proper term for it.

Anyway, I know of no one who has reported return of their Peyronies Disease symptoms after quitting VED usage. That is, assuming that they saw results with its use.

Old Man

I'm confused by your post. (Possibly it is me). It sounds like you recommend continued VED usage in the 1st paragraph but in the 2nd paragraph you cite that symptoms don't recur when you don't.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on January 14, 2008, 05:16:49 AM
WHICH should i purchase !?!?!?

http://www.rejoynstore.com/revathsypepu.html (http://www.rejoynstore.com/revathsypepu.html)

is this a good one?

any suggestions for a VED to purchase?!?!?

i also found this model?
http://www.drugsupplystore.com/servlet/the-27/Impotence-Aid-Manual-Vacuum/Detail (http://www.drugsupplystore.com/servlet/the-27/Impotence-Aid-Manual-Vacuum/Detail)
is it good because i can get it even cheaper somewhere else...

thanks so much.


Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/continued use after Peyronies Disease
Post by: Old Man on January 14, 2008, 11:15:41 AM
Ptolemy:

After re-reading my post, I think that you are right. What I am saying does in a way contradict itself.

What I am trying to say is that if one used the VED and saw results, they should continue VED usage to preclude the symptoms coming back. On the other hand, if one uses the VED for an extended period of time and sees no results, there would be no need to continue the treatment.

However, I would recommend using the VED for a period long enough to determine that no results would be forthcoming. Some guys have used the VED for over a year without any sign of positive results. So, one must determine in their own situation if they should continue long term usage of the VED.

As I stated, since I had positive results, I continue to use the VED several times a week just to preclude the Peyronies Disease returning if at all possible. Hope this clears up your question. If not, let me know.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 14, 2008, 11:20:29 AM
Getting there:

First, let me say that I have not seen either VED in person, so I don't know for sure about the quality of each.

The Rejoyn unit appears to be of a better quality based on the pictures. The other unit appears to be less well built. But again, one would have to personally see each unit to determine the best quality. The price of each seems reasonable though.

They could be a cheaper alternative to the higher priced Osbon and Augusta models. Only you can determine which would be best for you. I would have to personally see each one to recommend a choice between the two of them.

Maybe some one else on the forum has had experience with these VEDs and can recommend one or the other.

Old Man
Title: Getting There In Or... VED's
Post by: Angus on January 14, 2008, 11:31:36 AM

   It's hard to tell anything about a VED online without seeing it in person. The Rejoyn one seems to be the better of the two, but that could be only saying it has the better picture online. But, be advised that you cannot get different size tubes other than what is supplied with them. The Rejoyn comes with a 2 inch diameter tube. A Large tube they sell is two inches longer but the same diameter. The second VED link has poor information with sentence fragments in the description and a very poor digital image, but you'll have to decide what is best for you. Consider the fact that if you are interested in the multi-tube VED therapy as outlined elsewhere on the forum, neither of these have a small tube available.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on January 14, 2008, 02:57:23 PM
VED / Augusta Medical vs Rejoyn
I have both. The Rejoyn did not do well for me. Bought it new over the net from the store that sells Rejoyn.
When I had to have heart stints in October 2006 Uro took me off trimix and said to use a VED. I told him that I had a Rejoyn and it did not work well. He arranged for a custom fit Augusta Medical to see how it worked. Needless to say I was impressed with the Augusta Medical. Pricey $450.00 out of pocket (before I was on Medicare).
8 weeks post op from the failed implant attempt I have started back using it 3-4 times for exercise. The couple of Uro's that I have talked to want me to use it 3-4 times a week to help the corpora stretch out and assist for the next implant attempt.
I am of the opinion that once you have Peronies even if the curve self corrected like mine did that you always have Peronies. Peronies has attacked my corpora and I have a lot of fibrosis. The fibrosis has caused penis shrinkage and have lost about 1.25" of length. Hind sight I wish I had been using a VED after the Peronies attack in 1996. For those of us with Peronies keeping the corpora healthy is a must. My only regret is that the Uro at the time did not tell me about the VED and let me shrink telling me that there was nothing he could do.
My $0.02
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - One Year VED Progress
Post by: Ptolemy on January 14, 2008, 11:02:33 PM
Quick Historical Overview – See History for more detail
June 2005 Contracted disease by bending penis during sex
Aug 2005 Felt pea sized lump
Feb 2006 Began topical verapamil – Wasted time and money for 1 year
Jan 2007 Began VED treatment
Jan 2008 Began Traction treatment in addition to VED treatment

I did no measurements prior to VED treatment. With the VED I mark the outer tube to record/monitor changes in size.

When I began using the VED I was 30% below my maximum size (prior Peyronies Disease size) with a 90 degree upward bend.

Over time VED treatment increased the length from the 30% loss to a 12% loss.

Today I tend to use the VED less aggressively and currently have about a 20% loss in size. I'm sure I could get more length with more effort but I'm concerned about the risk. The 90 degree upward bend without the cylinder still exists. But I do get a sense that the bend is softening.

Overall I would say the results for the year are below my expectations however, I believe that I would be much worse off had I never used the VED. I feel like the plaque is still growing down the shaft but I'm able to retain if not regain some length. Alternatively, possibly the plaque is not growing; I'm simply stretching the plaque by using the VED. The plaque has always felt as hard as a rock. I have always operated the VED below any pain threshold. (You guys are good a scaring the hell out of me on overuse.)

It will be interesting to see what impact the Traction device will have. I will not be able to wear it to the office so my usage will be only 1 to 2 hours per weekday rather than the 5 to 7 recommended. My plans are to use the VED every morning and the Traction in the evening.
Title: Ptolemy... your situation sounds real similar to mine.
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on January 15, 2008, 03:44:43 AM
Ptolemy... your situation sounds real similar to mine. though when it happened to me i didn't know what it was... i'd never heard about Peyronies. i was, like many of us i'm sure, scared beyond belief. it was maybe almost a year before i even found out about peyronies. the first year all i knew to do was vitamin E. i ordered some of those enzymes like nattokinese later. i'm not sure if they helped... they didn't hurt. after a while my curve suddenly got less and my penis regained a little strength but since then hasn't changed much. very little in the last couple years. i've done little things, and finally become sexually active with some regularity, and less trouble then i expected. fear is the biggest hurdle.

now i'm thinking it's time for another round. i'm looking ot get a VED. and i'm open to any other suggestions! so send them on! my money flow has looked up so i'm down to order herbs, vitamins, whatever.

thanks again guys,

casey

Title: Choice of VED
Post by: Tim468 on January 15, 2008, 10:45:24 PM
MY bias is that a hand held pump that is attached to the cylinder will cause movement as you do the pumping action. This seems intuitively to be not as good as a separate hand pump connected by a length of flexible tubing. To do that, I bought very high quality cylinders from a vendor and a hand pump from a science supply shop (at half the price of a porn or VED associated pump).

The pump was under $30, and the cylinder was about $60. I now have five cylinders, but I use primarily just three of them.

Links to the vendors mentioned are in one of my previous posts. Do a search of my posts using "VED", "cylinder", "Cost" and that should get you reduced down to whatever I posted that has the info in it.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on January 15, 2008, 10:54:18 PM
Here is a porno site (not safe for work) that sells quality cylinders: http://www.jennasloveshop.com/clear-acrylic-penis-pump-cylinders_246.html

Tim
Title: Re: Choice of VED
Post by: Angus on January 16, 2008, 02:08:29 PM
Quote from: Tim468 on January 15, 2008, 10:45:24 PM

Links to the vendors mentioned are in one of my previous posts. Do a search of my posts using "VED", "cylinder", "Cost" and that should get you reduced down to whatever I posted that has the info in it.

Tim

   Tim, your post about vendors is in the highlights of VED thread in the child boards and the links are active (stockroom.com, etc.). The text and links are about 1/4 of the way down from the top of the post.  Angus
Title: Re: Tim & Angus - Constructing a VED
Post by: Hawk on January 16, 2008, 03:07:48 PM
Guys,

Not to do double work but this information needs multiple references.

The information you two have supplied is so much under demand that I made a single topic of the information in our forum's Reference Library.  https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,642.msg12305.html#msg12305
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: ocelot556 on January 18, 2008, 09:52:20 PM
Will a VED help to alleviate the problems associated with fibrosis in the corpora? I understand the mechanism for correcting the bend, but will the VEDs action help corpora-related scarring, or help a venous leak?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on January 19, 2008, 07:02:29 AM
Ocelot
According to the Uro's I have talked to using a VED 3-4 times a week will help keep the corpora's healthy. A word of caution do not over do the pressure it will cause erosion on the skin, been there done that.
Have you tried the pills for erections, V, C or L?
Have you had a Doppler for Venous Leakage?
With a history of Peronies do not do the shots for erections. I did and have become 100% impotent from the fibrosis they caused. Use a VED and constriction bands for sex or consider an implant. Do not use the constriction bands for 3-4 times a week therapy.
If possible get your Dr to write a prescription for a VED and have one custom fit. They are costly but work much better than the OTC ones.
Jackp
Title: Re: A question for Jackp
Post by: pal-31 on January 19, 2008, 11:51:23 AM
Jack,

What do you mean by custom fit VED ? i am in the process of ordering one by a prescription.

Thanks in advance,
Pal
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/custom fit
Post by: Old Man on January 19, 2008, 12:40:33 PM
Pal:

I am not sure what Jackp means by a custom fit either. There are a number of VEDs on the market. Some are medical quality (kind of pricey, but very good), the over the counter type and even the "sex" toy models.

In my therapy, I have used three different models of VEDs. The first one that was prescribed for me was an Osbon Classic manual model which had a separate cylinder with a hose connecting it to the pump. The next model was an Osbon Esteem unit which was self contained once the cylinder was mated to the pump. Later, I acquired an Augusta Soma Correct model (the one withdrawn from the market) which has the three separate cylinders. It came with a therapy regimen consisting of 26 weeks of therapy based on using all three cylinders by their schedule. The Soma Correct model was replaced with the Somaerect VED which is marketed only for ED problems. However, it can be used for Peyronies Disease with modifications to allow for sizing.

If I were to recommend a VED for you, it would be one of medical quality that would allow for sizing of the cylinder to make a good fit around the penile shaft for the therapy. Careful use of VEDs have benefited many guys on this forum both for ED and Peyronies Disease. In my case, I depend solely on the VED for erections due to a radical retropubic prostatectory way back in 1995. I use the restrictor rings to hold up the erection after pumping it up.

If you are on Medicare or have good health insurance, they may pick up part of the cost of a VED prescribed by a physician for erectile dysfunction. So check out that option before deciding to order the VED. If I can help further, feel free to ask.

Old Man

Title: Re: VED's - Old Man
Post by: pal-31 on January 19, 2008, 03:30:18 PM
Old Man,

Thanks for your help again. You have shared some great information with me on the forum and in PM's. I appreciate your thoughts and information.

Thanks again,
Pal
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on January 20, 2008, 02:45:37 AM
Custom Fit;
What I mean is that the Dr. wrote a prescription for the VED and made an appointment for me to meet the company rep in his office.
The rep went over my choices of brands and sizes of cylinders and restriction bands. I tried them in the office to see which worked best for me.
The one that was the best for me was the Augusta Medical and the mid size restriction ring.
I had a Rejoyn that I purchased over the net and it was not doing the job.
That is why I called it a custom fit.
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: pal-31 on January 20, 2008, 11:28:32 PM
Jackp,

Thanks for the information. I got an RX for the VED but no appointment to see a rep. I am working with the vendor now to purchase one, but we are waiting on the insurance company to see what they will cover.

Pal

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 21, 2008, 03:29:16 PM
Pal31:

FYI, some uro groups have a representative from the VED makers that come to their offices and personally talk to the patients that are RXd VEDs. I had forgotten about that when the subject of custom fit came up. Other groups do not have access to having company reps visit their office and just simply RX the VED and let the patient find the source, etc. I guess it based on how large the group of uros is and what their office policies are, etc.

Anyway, most VED makers do have technicians to help out with questions and problems as they arise with patients.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: meanmrmustard on January 24, 2008, 01:26:31 PM
I just bought the SomaCorrect Xtra and after my first two sessions, I have the following questions:

1. is there any indication that you shouldn't use the VED when you have varicocele? I have varicoceles on both sides, and kind of felt a light, but burning sensation in that area after pumping the first time, maybe due to the pressure applied to the scrotum in order to achieve/maintain a seal ...?

edit: I realized my second question is answered by Old Man in the "VED Highlights"-Compilation here https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,439.0.html
2. the VED came with cylinders in three different sizes, however, I'm a bit surprised by their small size. pumping with the smallest one feels a little uncomfortable, with my erected penis touching the cylinder on all sides, even when using the medium-sized cylinder, the (erected) glans are directly touched by the cylinder to a heavy extent, is that OK?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Soma models
Post by: Old Man on January 24, 2008, 06:19:32 PM
MMM:

I know of no reason that varicoceles should interfere with VED usage. However, the VED should be kept as close to the body as possible when first starting to pump up so that the scrotum and any adjacent skin cannot be pulled up into the cylinder mouth. Later, after you have mastered the best pumping situation for your own situation, you can move the VED up and down the shaft to establish the milking action that helps with the regimen.

Strongly urge you to stay with the 26 week regimen that is posted somewhere on the VED thread section of the child boards compilation, etc. If you cannot find it, let me have your email address and I will email you a copy. It can be obtained from this website: www.vacuumtherapy.org.  (I am sure this address is correct - if not let me know.)

Now about the three cylinders and their tightness, etc. They are purposesly designed to confine the penis as much as possible in order to keep it straight while pumping vacuum pressure. However, you must use plenty of lubricant to allow for a very slippery condition so the penis can slide easily especially into the A or small cylinder. If the A cylinder is too tight after trying to use for several days, just simply leave that one off and continue the regimen using only the B and C cylinders. BTW, just be sure you do not experience any pain or major discomfort while using the VED. If you do, try to find the cause and take corrective action.

Special caution note:  You should be extremely careful not to injury the varicocele(s) as you may develop a major problem with them.

I will be glad to answer any and all questions you may have about the VED or the regimen. Best to you and happy pumping!!!

Old Man
Title: VED Gain
Post by: jackp on January 29, 2008, 08:49:01 PM
I have been back to using the VED for about 2 weeks now. A week ago I started using "old man"s routine.
I have not been able to measure girth but I have gained 1/4" in length. Girth feels fuller.
I have to go in the hospital Thursday for back surgery and will like to see if the gain holds up until I can get back to the routine.
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Samwise on February 02, 2008, 02:54:25 AM
Hi everyone, IÂ’m new to this forum but I have been browsing them for quite a while. I plan to stick around here for a long time so hugs for all the guys out there with crippled penises.

Moving along rapidly… I decided to order the somaerect system. I got in contact with Augusta Medical and they referred me to the Australian supplier. After a long 6 weeks of waiting for the product to arrive, I received the satchel and to my dismay found the response II system waiting for me inside. So I called up the Aussie supplier again and they told me they don’t sell the somaerect. Never have. So according to them it must be a mistake on my part even though I’ve been asking for the soma all along  >:(. So after all this waiting I am left with a relatively useless product (from a Peyronies viewpoint), a bunch of wasted cash, and the anger and frustration that comes with it.

So, I am thinking of turning the response II system into a three cylinder arrangement with a bit of modifying. Do you think this could be done? I know some guys have made their own VEDÂ’s so it seems possible. I can also return the product, but then I wouldnÂ’t know where to turn next as I am not aware of any three cylinder VEDÂ’s available in Australia. Does anybody know of a way to get a three cylinder VED over here?

Any advice on the subject would be much appreciated, as IÂ’m sick of waiting and want to get started on the treatment right away. ;)

Cheers,

Sam
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on February 02, 2008, 09:51:39 AM
My two cents..


I would return it for a refund because of the duplicity in the ordering process, and then I would order a good cylinder or three from a good vendor of VEDs with a cheap hand pump. I assume that international ordering is fine, though who knows, there may be some Australian law forbidding the importation of sex toys (there is in Texas, I think).

Search my previous posts or a summary in this post on how to make or get one cheaply that works quite well:

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,642.msg12305.html#msg12305

Also, the medical grade devices may be of value if you are looking for help in maintaining an erection during sex. The base is made differently on some of them to allow for a constriction ring to easily slide off and onto the base of the penis to stay there, trapping blood in the penis to allow sex (we get complaints from our partners when we try to wear the cylinder during sex!!). But other than that issue, I would not bother with a medical grade device at all.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 02, 2008, 11:42:09 AM
Samwise:

Also, my two cents. I strongly recommend that you contact Augusta Medical again, make your email/post to the attention of Louis. He is the sales and marketing division supervisor. Give him all the particulars of what happened and explain that you want the three cylinder model and not the Response II. He should be able to help you with returning the II. The II is a good unit for erections, but not especially good for Peyronies Disease therapy. It will help some, but not to the degree that you desire that a VED can or will do for you.

I am sure that the sales rep can get you to the right place for the Somaerect. The Soma Correct has been taken off the market so you will not be able to find one of those anywhere unless some one has old stock, etc.

Let me know if there is anything that I can do to help. As Tim says, you can make your own using his and Angus's method that is explained elsewhere on the forum.

Old Man
Title: Re: SamWise
Post by: Hawk on February 02, 2008, 11:57:52 AM
Old Man can correct me if I am wrong since he knows more about this than I do, but since you may have missed this point: The Soma correct technically has been taken off the market but in fact it was just renamed to the Soma Erect.  In any case, even if I have the name wrong, the same 3 cylinder model exists under a different name and without any advertised claim of treating Peyronies Disease (a legal wrangle).

I too would follow Old Man's advice and return it.  You might let Augusta know that you discussed it on this forum and many of us are interested in how responsive they are to your complaint.

After all, it is their product, and it was them that referred you to that supplier.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 02, 2008, 04:07:08 PM
Hawk:

Yes, you are technically right about the Soma Correct being reincarnated as the Somaerect. Due to the wrangle with FDA, Augusta simply slightly modified the sizing inserts and got the approval to sell the VED as an ED unit. The Correct model had the 26 week protocol with it along with other media about how to use it. The Erect model does not have this protocol with the package.

I still have the old Correct manual model and got the updated sizing insert from Augusta and the problem of pinching was eliminated for good. As far as I know there is no basic difference between the models. I currently use the old Osbon Esteem as well as the newer Correct model as modified.

Old Man
Title: Re: my VED mix-up
Post by: Samwise on February 02, 2008, 10:34:41 PM
Thank you all for your kind words and advice. I have taken your recommendations and will be returning the product. I am going to get in contact with Augusta Medical again as Old Man suggested, and see what they can do about fixing this mix-up. I'll let you know how it goes.

Sam
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 04, 2008, 04:13:02 PM
Samwise:

Have not heard anything from you on the forum lately. Bring us to date on what has happened with your Response II VED. Let us know if you got the problems solved.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: vpavl on February 05, 2008, 12:51:46 PM
Quote from: Old Man on February 04, 2008, 04:13:02 PM
Samwise:

Have not heard anything from you on the forum lately. Bring us to date on what has happened with your Response II VED. Let us know if you got the problems solved.

Old Man

I've Peyrony desease 20 years,I've begun VED now,
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 05, 2008, 03:06:41 PM
vpavl:

I am a bit confused by your post. My post was addressed to Samwise whom I have been working with toward getting a proper VED for him in his country. He was furnished the wrong VED when he ordered it and I have been working with him to get the right VED.

Are you saying that you are using the Response II and if so, let the forum know how it is working out for you.

Old Man
Title: Re: VPavl - Old Man
Post by: Hawk on February 05, 2008, 03:52:32 PM
I think it is a case of Vpavl making the mistake of many members and not reading the entire "Read Me First" area.  One topic there is "How to Post" https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,316.0.html
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on February 05, 2008, 03:52:48 PM
 :) so i got my VED today! pretty stoked.

first off. i have NO trouble getting erections. my peyronies is the sort from an injury - bending the penis while it was erect, leaving me with an hourglass sorta effect. it's skinnier in the middle.

so. should i use the rings things to go around the base of the penis to keep you erect? i'm thinking not to... because that's for 'erectile disfuction' which is NOT my problem.
i'm assuming what makes a VED good for peyronies is that the vacuum effect pulls outward, maybe pulling apart some of the area bound together by scar tissue?

am i getting this right?

thanks! getting there.


Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 05, 2008, 05:24:38 PM
Getting there:

By all means, DO NOT, repeat DO NOT, use the retainer rings for Peyronies Disease therapy with your VED. Those are used strictly to hold up erections induced by the VED for sex. You could cause extremely more damage to your penis if you do use them, so don't.

Again, you are cautioned not to use excessive vacuum pressure while doing the Peyronies Disease therapy exercises. Develop whatever procedure you wish to use for your therapy, but again, DO NOT OVERPUMP THE VACUUM PRESSURE! Follow your routine on a regular basis each and every day to produce the best results.

We are here to help each other with Peyronies Disease problems, so if you have questions about VED usage, by all means post them so we can help. There are many guys using VED therapy and each and every case is different. Any one of us may have a procedure that would help someone else, etc.

Feel free to ask for help, don't just go it alone.

Old Man
Title: Re: my VED mix-up
Post by: Samwise on February 06, 2008, 12:20:29 AM
Howdy people! Just thought I'd let you know how things have turned out with the little product mix-up I experienced. Well, I'm very, very happy. Sorry about the slow response, but I have recently been on holidays and did not have access to a computer. When I got back yesterday I called the Australian supplier and we agreed on returning the Response II for a full refund. Some of you may have read the small update I added to my last post – it has now been deleted because the problem has been fixed. Shortly afterwards I checked my emails and Augusta Medical had sent me one (two, actually) which explained that I could in fact keep the Response II and that they could sell me the additional cylinders that come with the SomaErect. The additional cylinders fit right inside the standard cylinder that comes with the Response vacuum. In fact, the only difference between the Response II and the SomaErect (function-wise I presume) is the additional cylinders. So, luckily for me the Response vacuum had not been sent away yet and I cancelled the return.

In the email I received from Augusta Medical, they asked me if they could get my physician's information so that they could get their distributors in Australia to get in contact with him. This would allow them to offer something new to the distributor and would help other people suffering from Peyronies Disease in Australia, which I think is great. I would urge any Aussies that are reading this to spread the word on such products and Peyronies treatments in general to create a greater awareness of the options available – and those that should be made available – in this country.

I would also like to give a big thankyou to Old Man for all his efforts and support in helping me get this sorted out. He is kind man and a real gentleman. If anyone has any doubts about his status in this forum, they should be dismissed as he is only here to help.

Also, if anyone is interested, Augusta Medical have been very kind and helpful in this. 10 out of 10. :)

Sam
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ptolemy on February 07, 2008, 01:13:57 AM
The 26 week protocol calls for one week on each cylinder (small, medium, large) over a 3 week period and repeating the 3 week sequence until week 23 where it calls for the large continually. Now that I have started Traction in addition to VED therapy, the small cylinder (promoting length) seems redundant. I'm thinking I simply should be rotating between medium and large. Thoughts?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on February 07, 2008, 03:30:55 PM
I've found that common or garden hair conditioner acts as a pretty good lubricant, if that's any help to anyone.  Cheap as chips, as they say. :)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 07, 2008, 03:45:21 PM
Ptolemy:

My recommendation to you is that you should stay on the prescribed cylinder schedule as shown in the protocol. It was developed around some studies that show it to be a viable one. Skipping the small cylinder may or may not preclude further development of length. Using both traction and the VED as the same time IMHO could be redundant based on how you use the protocol, etc.

My experience has taught me that staying with one routine of exercises for an extended period produces better results than  what I call intermittent usage, etc.

So, bottom line, I strongly urge you to stay with the prescribed schedule of cylinders.

Old Man
Title: Small cylinder
Post by: Angus on February 07, 2008, 05:44:58 PM

   The small cylinder serves a distinct purpose with its confinement and longitudinal stretching combined with an erection. It provides an exercise that is different when compared to traction. I second the recommendation to not skip the small cylinder.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ptolemy on February 08, 2008, 12:38:26 AM
Angus and Old Man, I appreciate the advice and will follow.
Title: Re: VED's - question
Post by: pal-31 on February 09, 2008, 01:25:49 AM
Hi Guys,

I have a quick question about the VED I bought the Soma which comes with 3 cylinders. When I opened the box and the case that it came with it. I found that the 2 smaller cylinders A and B if you hold them out and look at them are a little cloudy as compared to the big "C" cylinder. I mean the way the plastic looks just by holding it up and looking at it. Is that expected because the way they are wrapped may be. They would not resell a return, would they ? The box was closed and looked new.

Thanks in advance
Pal
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/clouded look
Post by: Old Man on February 09, 2008, 10:12:58 AM
Pal-31:

The Soma Correct that I have also looks kind of clouded when you hold A and B cylinders up to the light. Also, they present a slight tinge of lavender under certain light conditions.

If the box was sealed or appeared to have never been opened, you can be asssured there would be no used material in the package. As far as I know, when a product is returned to them, they inspect it and then destroy it as FDA would not allow them to sell used equipment.

The large C cylinder on my unit presents a totally clear look with only a slight tinge as mentioned above. I am not totally sure of this, but the cylinders are supposed to be made of Lexan and sometimes this material does present different hues under different lights.

Hope this helps, but if you want further asssurance, just call Augusta and ask them about it.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: pal-31 on February 10, 2008, 10:54:50 PM
Thanks Old Man, as always. I will check with Augusta just to make sure, but I think I already know the answer.

Pal
Title: VED - Questions
Post by: pal-31 on February 13, 2008, 05:38:06 PM

Does anybody have any tips on when to stop pumping. I know this may be a tricky thing to explain and I know to stop if there is any pain. However, when does one know the right time to stop. This is for the Peyronies treatment protocol.

Thanks,
Pal
Title: pal-31, vacuum
Post by: Angus on February 13, 2008, 09:25:33 PM

   Stop pumping vacuum when you have an erection that feels full and the skin is starting to tighten. You will see this and feel this. You'll learn to stop pumping before this threshold happens. Pumping past that point will produce puffy, swollen skin and redness which will tell you that you've "over-worked" things, so you want to avoid that at all costs. Regular VED use with moderate vacuum is the ticket; that's what worked for me.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/when to stop pumping
Post by: Old Man on February 13, 2008, 10:14:25 PM
Pal31:

Another rule to follow in pumping is this:  pump slowly, pump a few cycles and hold the pressure and you will feel the blood flowing in after each pump. Waiting between cycles will allow the blood to "learn" a flow rate, etc. Practice makes perfect is the rule of thumb in almost everything, so go slowly, let your penis develop a "feel" for the added pressure since it probably has not been inflated as much as the VED does for it.

Above all, be patient, take it easy as Angus says and you will see better results than if you just pump up until the old tool feels like popping open!!

Old Man
Title: VED
Post by: pal-31 on February 14, 2008, 12:12:26 AM
Thanks guys

I was just trying not over pump, but I think in doing so I did not pump enough. So I thought I ask.

BTW, do you guys follow the protocol of 10 cycles of pump and release ?

Thanks again,
Pal
Title: Re: pal-31, vacuum
Post by: Ptolemy on February 14, 2008, 02:16:50 AM
Quote from: Angus on February 13, 2008, 09:25:33 PM

Regular VED use with moderate vacuum is the ticket; that's what worked for me.

Why is "under pumping" more effective than say pumping as much as possible but just below a level that creates a problem?

Why is a pumped erection in a cylinder more beneficial for peyronies than a sexually stimulated erection in a cylinder? Is it simply that blood flows more freely to restricted areas/peyronies areas in a vacuum?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 14, 2008, 09:41:58 AM
Ptolemy:

You have asked the $64,000.00 question about pumping with a VED. Think about it for a while - overpumping the erectile tissue will cause more damage. The moderate pumping give the erectile tissue time to "learn" its new stretched condition. Overpumping can and will permanently damage the tissue causing serious problems. Believe me, several guys that I have worked with found out the "hard" way. Now, they are having to battle the damaged areas along with the Peyronies Disease.

Overpumping can and will cause edema of the foreskin, shaft tissue and even the head portion can be inflated to such a state that it will get damaged. It can also cause bleeding if carried to the extreme overpumped condition.

So, bottom line, as it has been said many times on this forum, use extreme caution in pumping and use only enough pressure to get the desired results of inflating the corporal chambers to such a state it is comfortable and not painful, etc. Constant moderate pumping on a routine daily basis for a longer period works better than overpumping for a shorter period, etc.

The protocol that is published by the VED companies usually do not state that overpumping can be done with further damage resulting. I suppose that they assume that a person would not go so far with pumping as to cause pain, etc.

Let us know if we can help further.

Old Man
Title: Re: pal-31, vacuum
Post by: Angus on February 14, 2008, 02:04:03 PM
Quote from: Ptolemy on February 14, 2008, 02:16:50 AM
Quote from: Angus on February 13, 2008, 09:25:33 PM

Regular VED use with moderate vacuum is the ticket; that's what worked for me.

Why is "under pumping" more effective than say pumping as much as possible but just below a level that creates a problem?

Why is a pumped erection in a cylinder more beneficial for peyronies than a sexually stimulated erection in a cylinder? Is it simply that blood flows more freely to restricted areas/peyronies areas in a vacuum?

   The vacuum in a cylinder will draw blood in as an external force, and an "over pumped" or extreme vacuum creates an erection with more "power" than a persons natural blood pressure will create; you can think of natural blood pressure as an internal or natural force. I would rather call a moderate, comfortable vacuum something like normal pumping or vacuum as opposed to "under pumping". Pumping to an extreme to get an extra extra hard erection will be detrimental and WILL cause edema, skin swelling and in some cases pain that takes a while to go away, and as Old Man has stated, some guys have learned this the "hard" way with more damage. I have always held that moderate (or comfortable) vacuum used on a REGULAR basis with a plan will help with Peyronies Disease; I have said in previous posts over time the thought "less is more" with the VED, meaning that more regular, daily use with a comfortable vacuum level will produce results over time. Thinking that an extreme pumping session with too much vacuum for a "super erection" to try and "straighten" things faster will be counter-productive in the long with with edema, skin swelling, pain and so on. The body will re-mold and shape at it's own pace with VED therapy, sometimes much longer than the 26 week protocol calls for. Pumping an extreme, stretched to the limit-almost painful erection won't convince body tissues to stretch or re-mold faster in my opinion. These are my thoughts after years of VED use, with much trial and error in the early days. I mean the same as Old Man says in regards to moderate pumping giving tissue time to learn its new stretched condition, just putting it in different terms. Trying "harder" with the VED can be dangerous and counter-productive. Using a VED need not be scary or strange; pump a moderate pressure, don't push the limits with too much pumping, use it daily, and the experience of using one will be less threatening and be less of a "chore" or inconvenience.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on February 14, 2008, 02:26:57 PM
Somewhere, perhaps even in this thread, I posted a case report of a man who developed fibrosis of his penis from overpumping (too high of pressure for too long). Too much will damage tissue, including the delicate internal structures and tissues of the corpora (never mind edema to the skin).

As Mark Twain said "Too much of anything is bad for you, except for whiskey, where too much is just enough"

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Angus on February 14, 2008, 02:34:05 PM
Quote from: Tim468 on February 14, 2008, 02:26:57 PM
Somewhere, perhaps even in this thread, I posted a case report of a man who developed fibrosis of his penis from overpumping (too high of pressure for too long). Too much will damage tissue, including the delicate internal structures and tissues of the corpora (never mind edema to the skin).

As Mark Twain said "Too much of anything is bad for you, except for whiskey, where too much is just enough"

Tim

    I'll drink to that. Cheers  ;D
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ptolemy on February 14, 2008, 11:36:30 PM
I appreciate all the info. It really helps. There is always the tendency to try to get the penis as large as possible every VED session. Your word help manage the impulse.

This disease unreal - I've experience nothing in my life like it. The unwillingness of the disease to respond to anything. Some days the plaque feels like it's smaller and not as firm, the penis feels larger without as much bend and days later it feels smaller - shorter with a huge dent and bent like a right angle.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/penis enlargement
Post by: Old Man on February 15, 2008, 11:24:30 AM
Ptolemy:

Yes, there is a tendency to want your penis to "grow" using the VED. However, I don't think that it is reasonably possible that one can get their member to extend beyond what was given to you in the beginning. Under some circumstances, you can regain the lost dimensions if you use the VED with caution and not overdo the exercises. You must keep a regular schedule and not skip days if at all possible.

Pumping with too high a pressure can only lead to further problems immediately and in the future.

Constant daily moderate use has been proven by many on and off this forum to work best in VED therapy. So, keep the faith, be patient and maintain a good daily schedule.

Old Man
Title: Daily use of VED...
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on February 17, 2008, 05:36:06 PM
so i've used the VED a few days... then i read more posts and wondered if i might be over doing it which sounds like it could be bad.

so, for Peryonies (as apposed to erectile disfuction)

Q 1. do you use the rings? the one's that keep it erect?

Q 2. and how much do i pump? it never seems like a rigid erection from the pump. is that normal? it definitely fills with blood. and i think i'm getting it all the full. i read that you stop before it looks swollen and puffy and red and all that so i think i'm okay (though the big vain looks like it's might pop, sorry if that's gross but that's how it goes having that vian so much on the surface)

okay so any pointers would be great. just wanna MAKE SURE. cuz the last thing i need is for therapy to turn into damage.

thanks!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/daily use
Post by: Old Man on February 17, 2008, 07:39:44 PM
Gettingthere:

Yes, you should be concerned about overpumping the pressure. The best advice to you is just pump only enough pressure to get your therapy going, but not to the point of pain or discomfort. Use your best judgment about when is enough pressure. You should be able to know when you have reached the point that your penis has reached its point of best condition, etc.

Now, YOU DO NOT USE THE RETAINER RING(S) FOR Peyronies Disease THERAPY! Those are used only to hold up your erection, if needed, after you have reached your fullest comfortable erection. (Again, don't overpump your erection if going for sexual activity. Most of the time, you will gain a small amount of pressure when you slide the retainer ring(s) off the cylinder.) Above all, be careful in Peyronies Disease therapy and in going for an erection for sex so that you don't inflate your penile chambers beyond a comfortable harness or size, etc.

The VED is a wonderful tool if used properly and in moderation. Using it beyond a comfortable level at any time can and will cause problems for you. If ever you experience edema, irritation or other problems on your penis while using it, cease the VED use and wait for the area(s) to properly heal before continuing VED use.

We are here to help in any situation, so feel free to ask questions on the forum and don't go it alone with your therapy.

Old Man
Title: Re: Daily use of VED...
Post by: Hawk on February 17, 2008, 09:52:09 PM
Quote from: getting_there_in_oregon on February 17, 2008, 05:36:06 PM
Q 2. and how much do i pump?

The following is what I follow based on a single cylinder VED.  This will not apply to a cylinder that does not allow you to achieve full erect size.
You pump until "you have a normal, firm erection".  You should not try to obtain that in a minute or two but gradually. After you have done that for a while (weeks) you can experiment with pumping it a bit more firm as long as you monitor for :pain, discomfort, discoloration that lasts beyond the session, fluid accumulation, or swelling under the skin.

Also, be extra careful if you take common blood thinners like, ginkgo, aspirin, excessive vitamin E, garlic, etc.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: nemo on February 19, 2008, 11:41:55 AM
Guys, I'm still in "watchful waiting" mode with my current situation.  Just to recap, a little more than a month ago (possibly triggered by a bend during sex) I noticed an indention on the bottom right side.  Shortly thereafter, I noticed two more indentions, one near the first and one near the base, all on the bottom side of the right cavernosa.

For about the last three weeks I've had a vague, very mild and sort of migrating soreness on that side -almost feels like nerve stimulation at times.  When erect, it's mildly sensitive on that side, but not the "pain" I remember from my first bout of Peyronie's seven years ago.  What really bothers me with this is the weird "almost sore" feeling when flacid - it sometimes even seems like if I'm walking a lot, the nerve sensation extends down into the testicle on that side.  Neither I nor my Uro can feel any nodules or lumps (and believe me, I check frequently.)

Nevertheless, I'm taking the usual suspects, ALC, PLC, E, Advil.  My Uro gave me a prescrip for TV but I'm not sure if I'll fill it. I used TV seven years ago and while I improved, I'm not convinced it was due to the TV.

My question is, should I use my VED (Osbon Esteem) during what might very well be an inflamatory stage?  I have no bending (yet - fingers crossed) but I don't really undestand indentions.  Would two or three pumps to near full erection a night to stretch the tunica and get the blood flowing be good, or would these indentions be hurt by that kind of activity, or possibly made worse? 

Any opinions would be appreciated.  At this point, I'm just praying the dents will stabilize or even reverse and the weird sensation will go away so I can quit feeling like I'm waiting on the axe to drop.

Thanks,
Nemo   
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 19, 2008, 02:08:03 PM
Nemo:

Strange that you would relate the exact symptoms that I had with one of my bouts with Peyronies Disease. Mine felt like that the nerve endings were exposed and any touch sent a tingling feeling all over my groin area.

My uro had no explanation for it, but a check with ortho surgeon found that some nerves in my back were probably causing this feeling. Anyway, along with these strange feelings, there was the usual indentation and plaque to a degree. Not a severe plaque, just a small amount of firmer than normal tissue, etc.

I would say that using the VED with a very mild pressure would do no harm. However, do not pump to a full erection. Just pump up slowly to a partial erection, hold for a few seconds and relax the pressure. Would recommend that you determine the amount of time to do this based on how your penis feels with the added pressure. Don't believe you could do any further damage using a very mild pumping action. So, bottom line, be extremely careful and if pain should occur cease the VED exercises at once.

Keep us up to date on how things work out for you.

Best to you, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: nemo on February 19, 2008, 02:38:02 PM
Old Man, I should probably be a little clearer on the "nerve" part of what I'm talking about.  The sensation I feel is, strangely, not when I touch the penis, but when I'm not touching it.  It's a sort of low level "awareness" of that right side, but if I touch it trying to nail it down, there's no specific spot of soreness or discomfort and the sensation I feel throughout the day seems to alternate between the right side base area and the right side mid shaft area.  If I pull on the penis, gently of course, the right side near the base does feel a little tingly, or like it was strained at some point or something - not painful, but not normal either.  It doesn't hurt when I'm erect, but it does have moments of sensitivity on that side if I'm handling it (if you get my drift).  Again, not "pain" but some sort of sensation.  It's very odd to me, but I'm just holding my breath that the indentions (since I'm a month in and can't feel even the smallest of plaques or nodules) aren't precursors to bending. 

I'll try the VED as you suggest.  Thanks, as always for your counsel.

Nemo
Title: Re: VED's Question
Post by: pal-31 on February 19, 2008, 06:05:34 PM
I have started with VED. However, on the next day after my second day of excercises I had some pain, so I stopped and took a rest for 2 days. My question is should I start again now or how long should a person wait ?

I dont think I overpumped, but may be I did, I dont know. So next time I will just pump to a partial of what I was doing before.

Thanks
Pal
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 19, 2008, 08:24:54 PM
Pal-31

You should be very careful when starting off on a VED exercise routine. And, after you have gotten used to the added pressure on the corporal chambers, you should exercise caution at all times not to overpump the pressure. One cannot be too careful in VED usage is the watchword.

Take it slow and easy for several weeks until the penile tissues get used to the added pressure.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: pal-31 on February 19, 2008, 09:14:29 PM
Old Man,

Thanks again for the words of wisdom.

I hope I did not do any damage. I will just take it very slow for a few weeks.

Thanks,
Pal
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: moguy65203 on February 21, 2008, 11:54:47 AM
My Urologist recently suggested using a VED for my peyronies.  I will be receiving the device shortly and have heard contrary opinions as to how to use it.  I was told by the sales rep to do short reps of "pump and release" so new blood flows through the penis regularly.  I also read on line from a Urologist to maintain pressure and NOT use the pump and release method.  Which advice should I follow?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on February 21, 2008, 01:26:39 PM
Here is what I do: I pump and release until I am nearing a full erection in the cylinder. I do not easily stretch out to full length at first - takes about 5 minutes or less. After I finally get to my maximum stretched length, I unplug the pump and let it sit that way for about 8-10 minutes at full negative vacuum tension. I then release and after about 10-20 seconds, repump up for another ten minutes. That is my usual routine.

Also, here you will find protocols for using different size cylinders - the general plan is to start with a confining seemingly too narrow cylinder and gradually work to a larger diameter one. This has allows some men to get improvements in angulation, followed by improvements in dents (if present) and erectile quality (if not normal).

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ptolemy on February 21, 2008, 04:55:58 PM
I like Tim468 advice. Old Man is the expert on VED.

I have used it for a year. Probably most of the year I was focused on how large a penis can I create with the VED without any pain or irritation. I now see the device as a long term solution, getting blood into areas that wouldn't get blood or as much so I'm less inclined to worry about length on a daily basis.

I use a pump and release. It takes 5 minutes of pump and release to get to a reasonable comfortable size. Tim468's idea of holding the pressure for a few minutes sounds like a reasonable cautious additional procedure I might try.
Title: Re: VED's - how often, how long?
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on February 22, 2008, 12:10:49 AM
so how many times a day?

and how long do i keep it in the vacuum tube?

what's a usual session look like?

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/protocol
Post by: Old Man on February 22, 2008, 10:14:44 AM
getting there:

The protocol you would want to use will be based on the model of your VED. There is a protocol for a one cylinder model and there is one for a multi cylinder model.

You would need to let us know which make and model VED you are using and then we can recommend a protocol for your use.

Most VED exercise sessions last about 10 to 15 minutes or longer based on how well your penis tolerates the vacuum pressure. There are many ways of doing VED exercises and you have to determine which would work best for you.

So, let us know which VED you are using and we can go from there.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ptolemy on February 22, 2008, 04:08:31 PM
Quote from: Tim468 on February 21, 2008, 01:26:39 PM
After I finally get to my maximum stretched length, I unplug the pump and let it sit that way for about 8-10 minutes at full negative vacuum tension. I then release and after about 10-20 seconds, repump up for another ten minutes. That is my usual routine.

I tried holding in the vacuum but for me it felt like it was simply taking a break more than benefiting. The pumping and release - say hold for 8 to 12 seconds - repeating the pump and release for usually 10 but up to 30 minutes has the benefit of bringing in new fresh blood each pump. Whereas holding simply feels like an erection with the same old tired blood for the duration of the hold.

I may simply not understand the benefit of a hold.
Title: Re: Ptolomey - Pump Vs Hold
Post by: Hawk on February 22, 2008, 07:25:22 PM
IMHO I use the following logic that may or may not be flawed.

In any general body stretching, the hold for at least 60 to 120 seconds is far superior to stretch release.  The tissue tend to protectively contract at initial stretch and do not lengthen for at least a minute.  While this primarily is dealing with muscle and tendons the same may apply to any combination of tissue.  Next, body remolding of teeth, bone, lips or ear lobes respond to steady prolonged stretch, not short 10 seconds of expansion.  Finally, consider that the penis could not possibly deplete the oxygen from the engorged blood in a few minutes.

In conclusion, I think pumping and releasing ever 8 to 12 seconds is WAY to frequently.  I would hold for at least 1 - 2 minutes.  Unfortunately there is no data to compare results of different types of penis stretching.
Title: Re: VED's - Pump vs. Hold
Post by: Ptolemy on February 22, 2008, 09:55:02 PM
Hawk, your posts are always well thought out and logically presented. I would agree that a prolonged stretch is better for growth - muscles, teeth, penis, whatever. After a year of using the VED I'm inclined to see the the objective behind its use as generating more blood flow rather than penis growth. Therefore I like a 8 to 15 second hold period to encourage more blood flow and a Traction device as a means to increasing length. I'll spend the next year on those two approaches and see what results I get.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Kimo on February 22, 2008, 11:43:44 PM
TIM,,,,after reading your post about your regemin,,,it is exactly the same as what i am doing..After a couple of months i have noticed that i have regained about a half an inch and a little girth,and i'm sure that is all it will do....I am happy with it and will keep it up for the long term as i really believe it has been benefical in more ways than not...
I have only missed a few days here and there because of my wifes health problems, have had to make a few unexpected trips to the doctor,,emergency ones....

Old man has given us good instructions and i intend to keep following them.....Thanks oldman and all here who have done so much......

kimo
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: AR on February 24, 2008, 09:47:18 PM
 Hi Guys,
  This is my first post and I'm a little nervous. I've been reading, reading and reading and still don't know if I'm in the right place.

  I first noticed a problem 8 months ago, and was "officially" diagnosed by a UR 4 months ago. The Doc, I suspected,  really didn't have a clue, and this was confirmed when I found this incredible PDS sight (on my own) and started reading up. Now with more knowledge under my belt I have a "second opinion" appointment with a new UR March 5th, But kinda dought he'll know any more than the last Doc. (Though my question is about VED's, is there a referal list from you guys of knowledgeable UR's in the New York City/Hudson Valley area? Or is this conflictual in some way?  I certainly can't afford to see Dr. Livine in chicago, so how do you know where to go?)  About the VED's. I want to get one, and have a script from our family doctor, but don't know what to get, and/or how to go about it.  I found Osborn, Encore, and Augusta, but then I saw Old Man and others talking about the Soma Correct and if thats the best, then I want it, but they're in England. (?) Also, something was mentioned about the FDA? Any feedback here would be greatly appreciated. 

  I'm 57 and married 19 years to a wonderful woman.  I've had "hourglass" syndrome since a bad injury at 15, but other than it being only really noticeable when semi-erect, it never was an issue until now. My plaque, shaped like the state of Idaho, stretches from the base, halfway down the top of my penis and has somehow incorporated this 'hourglassness' into it's destructive plan, and I now have what I saw someone refer to as "hinging", which makes penetration impossible without supporting it with my hand, and needless to say, is painful.  It curves off to the left at about 15 to 20 degrees and I'm afraid it's getting worse. I've also lost some sensation, and again, needless to say, I'm scared!  No ED, knock wood. I understand the importance of measuring and record-keeping for the cause, and intend to get a protractor(?) soon, and when I get my VED, and with the help of my wife, keep some good stats to share. I watched the Dr. Livine videos and I see a lot of you guys switching over or incorporating traction, and I'll wait for more data on this. 

  For now, any help and/or guidance on which VED to get, and from where, is greatly appreciated. 

  AR
Title: Re: AR - NY Doctor
Post by: Hawk on February 24, 2008, 10:12:40 PM
AR,

I welcome you to our Peyronies Disease support group.  I will leave the VED questions for others but for a doctor, you could try http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/urology/greenfield.html 

I cannot personally vouch for him but he has the  interest, the credentials, and is with a good facility.  In the NY City area you should have a rather good selection of physicians that have extensive experience with Peyronies Disease.

Go prepared with questions and take notes.


Hawk

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: AR on February 24, 2008, 10:44:37 PM
Wow Hawk,
  A sigh of relief, and a smile on my face.  My first contact!
  I printed-out Greenfields page and will call him in the a.m., and be happy to share anything I learn.  Thanks for being here, and thanks for the tip.
  AR
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 25, 2008, 11:28:46 AM
AR:

Sorry to hear that you have joined the Peyronies Disease club! You now know what a lot of us have known for many years about this horrible disorder. The Soma Correct VED is not made in England though.

First, the Soma Correct is no longer on the market due to technical difficulties between the maker and the FDA. They were produced in Augusta, GA by the Augusta Medical Supply company. The company now markets the Somaerect (also made in Augusta, GA) which is basically the same unit as the Soma Correct model but is not listed as a Peyronies Disease therapy unit.

The Somaerect has three cylinders just like the Correct model and can be used for Peyronies Disease therapy just as well. There is a 26 week protocol listed elsewhere on this forum about using the three cylinder models of VEDs for Peyronies Disease. Also, Dr. Tim, Angus and possibly others have made their own three cylinder models by using medical quality materials. Dr. Tim has listed sources of those he used to make his VED, so look for that post by using the search engine, etc. If you are mechanically inclined you can make one yourself.

Also, there are other medical quality VEDs on the market so explore any and all before deciding which one would work for you. I am surprised that your uro does not have a source for VEDs. Most uros do have a source along with technical assistance on how to use them.

If you need further help, just feel free to ask the questions. We all are here to help others in any way possible.

Old Man
Title: which VED
Post by: gnosis on February 25, 2008, 01:42:53 PM
I live out of country where shipping is impossible.  I have a friend coming to my country later this week who could bring me a VED so I need to make a decision today about which one so I could get the VED overnighted to my friend.  I have a combination of Peyronie's and ED though the ED varies from mild to medium.  So I want to use the VED for both.  I have looked at the vacuerect and like it.  It seems easier to use if preparing for intercourse (that's a month or so away because my partner lives in another country). 

The Soma Erect has the 3 cylinders and from what I understand, you can do different protocols with those with some giving more attention to girth.  I like the ability to vary the use and to use intuition and biofeedback in eventually developing my own protocols so it seems better for that but I don't know. 

I have one good sized plaque on top of my penis close to the base and apparently one smaller one on the bottom also toward the base.  The curve is to the right and a bit down.  I have the hourglass effect.

I've gone from the peyronie's being only a bit of a nuisance in relation to intercourse (at diagnosis 8 months ago) to its being a real challenge and threat in the  last couple of months. 

Unfortunately I'm not mechanically inclined so the route for saving $ which you have for the mechanically inclined, is not so appealing to me.

With the vacuerect, can I do protocols toward girth and length as well as I can with the soma erect?  Is there a third or fourth option I should be considering?  If so, could you be specific about a third or fourth option--I go on the internet and have very little criteria to guide me about what to purchase. 

All my best information has come from this website.  God bless you all.  I've had appointments with 3 urologists--Mulhall most recently, but I decided not to do the injection routine he recommends.  The other 2 urologists seemed nice but not up to date.

Title: Re: VED's - gnosis selecting a VED
Post by: Ptolemy on February 25, 2008, 02:20:21 PM
I have had peyronies for over 2 years now. I began using the SOMAerect Touch II battery operated vacuum system about 1 year ago. It has the 3 cylinders which I believe are important for peyronies. I am extremely happy with the device.

It has not "cured" nor even improved the bend, loss of length, size of plaque since I started using the device however, I believe I would be much worse off without its use. I particularly like the battery vacuum - I'm a finger touch away from increase or decrease vacuum pressure.
Title: Re: Gnosis - Vacurect
Post by: Hawk on February 25, 2008, 03:01:23 PM
Welcome Gnosis,

I own a Vacurect.  I think the manufacture deserves credit for a very novel design and good value.

Advantages:
Cheaper than many but still a good medical quality unit.
Compact with no separate pump device.
One hand operation.
The rings are unique (flat washers or discs) that can be used without the VED just to enhance an erection. (maybe all you will need).

Disadvantages
No release valve,you have to let the pressure leak down or break the seal by slightly squeezing/deforming the base.
Single chamber with nothing to hold the penis straight or to cause a longitudinal pull.
If your plaque is right at the base, it may put some pressure Trauma) on that area as the base necks down  (in other words it puts some pressure around the base of the shaft at full pump depending on your girth)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 25, 2008, 04:02:25 PM
gnosis:

You state that you live out of the country. Do you mean live outside the USA? If so, did you come to the States to see Dr. Mulhall?

As Hawk says, the Vacurect is a good VED, but it is primarily designed for ED. It can work for Peyronies Disease but not as well as the three cylinder model VEDs. Using a VED for Peyronies Disease really does need a release valve for good therapy exercises. It just works much faster and is better overall.

The Somaerect can be purchased through many drug stores and/or at urologists offices. It does, however require a prescription from a doctor to buy. How would your friend get a prescription for you since you are out of the country, etc?

The above is just some questions that come to mind in reading  your post. I realize the urgency of what is happening for you, but the RX is required so that may be a problem for getting the VED that requires an RX.

Old Man
Title: Re: Old Man -Prescription
Post by: Hawk on February 25, 2008, 04:13:38 PM
Old Man,

Isn't it true that a prescription is only needed to get an insurance payment?  If one is willing to pay the full price I am of the opinion that the Augusta will sell them a unit.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: AR on February 25, 2008, 05:10:40 PM
Hawk, Old Man, Et all,
  Just got off the phone with Augusta and you can only purchase their 'Vitality' model OTC.  Script needed for the SOMAerect, and I'm waiting to hear back to see how much my WellCare will pay?  I did bookmark the 'homemade' VED's and considered making my own for a little while but the SOMA is looking good to me right now. 

  And on the subject of insurance: Dr. Greenfield in New York, doesn't take WellCare (not a huge surprise) and he charges $400 to $600 for a consultation...so, looks like I'll continue seeing the little guys in my area, and get all my important information from this incredible support group.

Thanks.   AR
Title: Re: AR - WellCare
Post by: Hawk on February 25, 2008, 06:11:26 PM
I am not sure exactly what "Wellcare" is.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: AR on February 25, 2008, 06:28:55 PM
Wellcare is our medical insurance provider and not everyone accepts it.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: nemo on February 25, 2008, 06:47:43 PM
Old Man, Tim, etc., one thing I'm not clear on is the value of the variable sized tubes.  I have an Osbon Esteem battery powered unit.  I always just used it to get a good pump and stretch tissue.  I actually gained the length back from my first bout with Peyronie's (I had minimal loss though). 

But in the situation I'm currently in, where I'm worried about some indentions on the bottom, but don't yet have a bend, do I really need a narrow tube?  Wouldn't the large tube of the unit I have pull in ALL directions equally, and wouldn't that be sufficient to stretch plaques? 

Nemo
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 25, 2008, 10:12:50 PM
Hawk:

As far as I know, a prescription is required to purchase the Somaerect. Should I learn differently, will post it here.

I don't know of anyone getting either the old Soma Correct or the new Somaerect without one.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 25, 2008, 10:20:12 PM
Nemo:

The battery powered model Osbon Esteem is really a good VED for both ED and Peyronies Disease. Using it for Peyronies Disease you have to develop a regimen of exercises that will give you an overall stretch, pull and hold and release.

I used the manual model of the Esteem and developed a regimen that worked for my Peyronies Disease. The exercise routine that I used has been posted elsewhere (on the recap thread under the Child Board section) and maybe on some other posts on other topics as well.

The value of the three cylinder VEDS is to keep the penis very straight and confined when first starting out with the 26 week protocol. The narrow cylinder only allows the penis to be pulled straight out from the body rather than being pulled in all directions like the Esteem cylinder, etc. The narrow cylinder also permits the plaque to be "pulled" only in the longitudinal direction.

As the exercise routines of the 26 week protocol progress into the larger cylinders, the penis is then pulled out in girth as well as being pulled straight.

Anyway, there is benefits from using either the one cylinder or the three cylinder models.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 27, 2008, 10:33:38 AM
Update on my post number 1229 of 2/25/008:

I checked with the Augusta Medical Supply company about the requirement for an RX for the Somaerect VED.

The information that I received back was this:  A prescription is required for the purchase of the Somaerect either with or without insurance coverage.

Since an RX is required for the purchase of the Somaerect either with insurance or without insurance, they suggest that interested parties wanting to purchase a VED that they buy their OTC Vitality single cylinder model VED, purchase the A and B cylinder along with the instructional manual for the Somaerect as extras.

IOW, they are saying that the above would make up the same package VED as if one bought the Somaerect. No RX is required for the OTC model pump and single cylinder which is one and the same as the Somaerect manual model VED pump and C cylinder only. This provides a means for one to buy a VED that can be used for both ED and Peyronies Disease without an RX.

Maybe the above will help those guys who want to purchase a VED without a prescription and not have insurance, etc.

My usual disclaimer applies to this information in that I have no personal interest in Augusta Medical Supply nor do I work for that company. Just providing information in order to help others with this crazy mess called Peyronies Disease.

Best regards to any and all, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on February 27, 2008, 11:37:58 AM
As we have said many times, one can use the cheaper (but well made) models available from the better purveyors of adult products  ;D

Things to consider:

1) a hand-pump with a pressure gauge can be purchased for $25 and allows you to reproduce the same conditions (ie the same pressure) each time. I have noticed that this can feel quite different at times - sometimes quite tight and sometimes quite comfortable. I have also noticed that the comfort factor is better if I am wormed up (so I do it in a hot and shallow tub - I sit and soak for a few minutes, pump up, and then fill the tub some more to cover me up better)(in too deep of water, it is harder to keep soaped up for lubrication).

2) variable diameter cylinders can be purchased from different vendors. I found that the largest diameter I use (I think a 2.25 or 2.5 diameter) is too wide at the base and pulls my scrotum up in and pinches (ouch!). One vendor offers a silicone sleeve that provides a snug fit at the base and prevents this "pull-up" problem. One can also take a large rubber inner tube from a bicycle and insert it into the cylinder and fold the edge over at the base. With a lot of lubricant, this can also form a sort of barrier to "pull-up" problems - or so I have heard, I haven't tried it.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: AR on February 27, 2008, 10:59:32 PM
Old Man, Tim:

  I've been on the phone with Augusta yesterday and today, (dealt with Marlon, as Louis wasn't available) only to find out my insurance won't cover the SOMAerect (I want what ever Old Man is using!) and I was directed to the Vitality, which is their OTC model. The problem with the Vitality, for me, is that the cylinder is 2.25" ID only, and I'm thinking to get started, I need a 1.75" ID, or a 2" cylinder max. 
 
  I also spent most of my day yesterday and today on-line looking for affordable, and high-quality alternatives to these unaccessible $600 VED's, and found my most promising option at a sex-shop sight, where I can get the pump with the pressure gage and two different size cylinders (of my choice) for $129.45 (shipping included).  This, after going to several different hardware stores, and searching on line for the materials to make my own (ala Angus [thanks for that info and those great pics Angus]), looks like the best bet for the $.   One big problem with allot of these devises, and particularly with a fixed-pump-head model like Vitality, is how do you know another companies cylinder will fit it, or vise-versa?
 
  As with Old Man, I'm not affiliated with, nor promoting anyone, and I haven't even got a pump yet to be sure if I did good... Just wanted to share some of my leg-work with folk, as it actually makes me feel like it was more worth while.  And, if it's not inappropriate, I'll be happy to share the sights, and specifics if anyone's interested.

  AR

  PS.  Shocking how realistic-looking they're making dildos these days.

Title: Re: VED's - Vitality OTC
Post by: AR on February 28, 2008, 08:39:22 AM
I just re-read your post Old Man.  Perhaps I'm wrong about the Vitality, but I was under the impression that even Augusta, did not have different sized cylinders for it.  Better recheck my facts.
Sorry.
AR
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 28, 2008, 09:31:06 AM
AR:

The Vitality Pump unit is basically the one the company supplies with the Somaerect. It may or may not have the same name stamped on it, but the function is the same. Yes, Augusta does have different cylinders for their VEDs. As I understand it, all of their cylinders are the same in material, size (makeup, etc.) and are interchangeable between several models of their VEDs. They come in sizes A, B and C, with C being the largest and A the smallest.

If you decide on the Vitality, you need to askd about the A an B cylinders since the it come with the C as standard.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: moguy65203 on February 28, 2008, 11:18:47 AM
Hey Guys,

My insurance does not cover VED's, and I couldn't afford the $500 bucks for the one my Uro's sales rep tried to push on me, so I went hunting on line.  I found one at www.fitzz.com for $109.00 (the Encore Impoaid).  I received it in the mail a few days ago and it seems to be working well.  I have never used any type of VED before, so I dont' really have anything to compare it to.  I'm using the whole "less is more" mentality and trying not to do too much too soon.  I use it 1-2 X daily for about 5-10 minute sessions.  I've been using the pump and release method.  This first few pumps I don't get as much, but by the third or fourth pump I notice quite a bit of length difference.  I feel the stretching and straightening more toward the end of my sessions than the beginning.  I know it'll take time and patience, but at least I feel like I'm doing SOMETHING to help now.

Great site, guys! 
Shannon
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 28, 2008, 11:31:03 AM
Moguy:

I went to the site you posted below and took a look at the Encore unit. There should be no reason that you cannot use it for Peyronies Disease symptoms. However, as has been stated many times here before, do not use the retainer rings for Peyronies Disease therapy session. Also, just be careful not to overpump at any time when using the VED. The better you take care of the VED, the longer it will last for you. The price is much better than others in use.

VED vacuum therapy is a case where less is better than more. You do want to stretch your penis as far as possible each therapy session as long as there is no pain or discomfort in doing so. As you start out your therapy session, pump once or twice to get the blood flowing well before adding more pressure. As you stated you noticed that it did not stretch as far when you first started pumping. This is what I am talking about when starting out on your sessions. Start out slow and increase the time of holding and releasing as you get more comfortable with the therapy.

As you get more and more used to the added pressure of pumping, you will find that you can add more without causing any adverse effect. But, again, use caution at all times in vacuum therapy for Peyronies Disease.

We are here to help others in any way, so feel free to call upon us at any times. Any question will be accepted and an answer given if at all possible.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on February 28, 2008, 11:40:51 AM
Old Man -AR
Was home along yesterday. Got out the VED and started my pump and hold routine for 10-15 minutes. Start the stretching slow and work up to full erection in about 5 minutes. This while using the Augusta Medical RX VED.
Just for kicks I got out the old OTC pump I had before I got the RX one. It is the Rejoyn manual model that I paid about $125.00 for over the internet. I had markings on the tube when I switched and have gained almost 1/2" with the Augusta routine.
If you can not afford the August Medical the Rejoyn may be a good second line product.
Note: I have an Augusta rep locally and has been helpful. The restriction bands with the Rejoin are not very effective. The ones with the Augusta are a better quality. The only problem the side grips. As we have aged my wife's labia have become thinner and the side grips cause her discomfort. The way we found out to combat this is use the Osborn restriction rings.
If you can not afford the Rx VED get a good OTC and order Osborn restriction rings over the internet. May be a good alternative.
Hope this helps some. My $0.02
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Tension rings, Shopping, etc.
Post by: AR on February 28, 2008, 03:26:18 PM
Tension rings, as Old Man points out, are not for Peyronies Disease.

  Thanks Old Man.

  Moguy, Thanks for that Fitzz site.  Great selection, and some good prices! (Shopping for a VED is becoming as overwhelming as shopping for a new car!!)  I called Fitzz a little while ago and spoke with a helpful fellow named Nick about the Vitality and learned even more (is this never ending?), and, got some conflictual info as well, that I'm guessing Old Man can clear up.  [Fitzz sells the manual Vitality for $120. It comes with the C (2.25") cylinder, and you can purchase the A (1.5") and B (1.75") cylinders in a package for $69, or separately for $39 each. Unfortunately for me, I think the A is too small, and I wish they had the B+ or the C- (2") model in the same deal...but anyway, he said the A and B cylinders fit inside the C cylinder. Is this the same with the SOMAerect Old Man? Then he said, and this I questioned, is  that with Peyronies Disease you start with the C and work down to the B, etc. Isn't it the other way around?  Now the question for me is, indeed, what size cylinder(s) do I need?  At this time I'm going by measurements I made of myself based on a diagram suggested from a site by a "Dr. Joel Kaplan".? I'm guessing that this info has been posted somewhere and this question answered  Dozens of times but Old Man, if you could help me here...much appreciated.   

      !!!We Interrupt This Transmission!!! 

  The sales rep Marlon from Augusta Medical just called to check-up and see how I was making out getting my VED, and without mentioning the name Fitzz, I told him I'd found a good deal on his Vitallity and the two xtra cylinders; gave him the price, and said if he could match it I'd be happy to get it from him,etc. He said "let me talk to my boss and I'll get back to you."  Calls me right back and sais, "no, we can't match that." And then he goes on to tell me he's concerned, because it's so cheap, and Augusta doesn't even allow the A and B to be sold with the Vitality,etc., and the A is 1.75"; the B is 2", and the C is indeed 2.25".

  Man! My head is spinning! That X4 Labs Hybrid Support Traction System is looking awfully good right now.

  So, I guess a question Moguy is, was Fitzz totally professional with you, and who did you deal with, etc.

  Thanks everyone.
  AR
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: moguy65203 on February 28, 2008, 05:04:47 PM
AR:

I had an appointment with the Osborn rep at my Uro's office and the model he had did NOT have any variable sized cylinders.  The model he had was just one cylinder, and he never mentioned using variable sized cylinders even though he knew I was going to use it for Peryonies.  Therefore I didn't know anything about variable cylinder sizes until I found this web site.  Unfortunately, I found this web site AFTER I ordered my VED from Fitzz.  Since I only have one cylinder I'm hoping that it still helps.  My bend is not too severe, and I noticed that when I do my pump exerices, the vacuum does straighten it out quite a bit.  I'm more interested in gaining my length back.

I never spoke to anyone at Fitzz--I only used their website and decided on a model based on their descriptions and price.  I figured that the warranty and FDA approval was a pretty good selling point instead of going to the local porn store for one.  And, since I'm on a budget, their pricing was good, too.  NO WAY was I going to pay $500 bucks for the Osborn without GUARANTEED results.  This was just a shot in the dark for me to see if it helps.  If I get results, GREAT--if not, at least I'm not out $500.

Shannon
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 28, 2008, 07:45:43 PM
AR:
The Augusta rep is correct about the cylinder sizes. The Vitality only comes with the larger C cylinder. The A & B cylinders along with the Somaerect instructional manual can be purchased separately from the company.

Sometimes you can purchase the Augusta products from other sources at a lower price, but as far as I know they do not carry the warranty that Augusta provides through their authorized sales outlets. So, if you purchase one from a source other than the maker be sure to ask about their warranty.

The small cylinder is designed to be small on purpose. It is to allow the penis to be drawn straight out from the body to hold it in tight so it will not bend in the cylinder. The 26 week protocol starts out with all three cylinders in place for exercises and then goes to the larger ones in progressive weeks.

The Fitzz rep is incorrect about using the C large cylinder first. It is actually reversed with A, B and C all used when first starting out on VED therapy according to the 26 week protocol.

Moguy:
You can purchase the A & B cylinder from Augusta separately (see post below for prices quoted) . Why their rep does not advise their prospective buyers about the extra cylinders, I have no clue. However, the last post does show the correct sizes of the cylinders. See paragraph above for reason for the smaller cylinders.

Be glad to help in any way with your exercise sessions if needed.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on February 28, 2008, 10:07:50 PM
I agree with Old Man tension rings are not for peronies treatment or penis exercise only I only use them for sex.
I use the VED exercise daily for corpora's fibrosis following Peronies of 12 years ago. I wish I knew than what I know now.
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: nemo on March 04, 2008, 05:26:21 PM
Okay, I wasn't sure where to post this, but the VED thread seems appropriate. 

I was reading Dr Levine's book on Understanding Peyronie's, and in the section where he talks about surgical implant of a prosthesis, he describes how the surgeon corrects the Peyronie's in the process of installing the implant.  To put it bluntly, according to the book, the surgeon installs the inflateable tubes, then, with his hands, bends the penis opposite the curve for 30-60 seconds to stretch the scar tissue, allowing the inflated penis to be straighter. 

My mouth dropped open when I read this because it sounds crazy. My first thought was, wouldn't this trigger more damage and subsequent scarring? But if this is correct, and I have no reason to doubt Dr. Levine, then what that means (to me) is that VED therapy is sound and should provide great hope.  In other words, if the scarring is stable and not inflamatory, then gradual stretching (either traction or VED) really might be just the mechanical force needed to straighten you - emphasis on gradual.

Food for thought ... and hope.

Nemo 
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on March 04, 2008, 11:50:29 PM
Does anyone know the diameter (inner and outer) of the Vacurect VED tube. I am interested in the dimensions at the opening, to see if the flanges that come with it (and which can be ordered separately) might work with the 2.0 " cylinder I currently use. I like many find that the larger cylinders (when I am supposed to use them) allow too much "suck-up" of scrotum. If I pump up with the small cylinder, I can then switch to the bigger one - it seems that when I am pumped up already, there is less room for "suck-up". I have a 2.25 " (I think) cylinder that comes with a removable flange already. It is not, however, small enough in the internal diameter to work as an erection aide by itself, like the Vacurect flange/rings do.

So again, does anyone know the diameters of those rings for the Vacurect?

Tim
Title: Re: Tim - Vacurect
Post by: Hawk on March 05, 2008, 12:12:29 AM
Tim,

I apologize.  I read your post stating your interest in the Vacurect tube size and the workability of their ring with other tubes.  I meant to reply but I got side tracked. then it slipped my mind.

First, the base of the Vacurect VED is not flanged in the least.  The VED necks down in diameter just a 1/2 inch before the base which baffles me.  I almost always use the VED without the ring if I am just pumping for a stretch or to encourage blood flow after traction.  Since the base of the VED is not flanged, it cuts into the body pretty good without the ring/washer in place but is not painful.

The tube's INSIDE base diameter is 1 3/4"
The OUTSIDE diameter is just a hair less than 1 7/8"

The construction of the ring is such that a smaller diameter tube would easily work and a slightly larger OUTSIDE diameter would work but the ring would hug the tube a little tighter since it curls up around the outside of the tube. 

I do not think a flanged tube would work unless the flange on the tube was 1/4" or less in width.  The flange would have to seat between the the flair in the ring's center hole and the outer curl of the ring that curls up around the outside of the VED tube.

I have a series of rings ranging in size.  I only use the 2 largest ones.  Frankly, I have never considered myself large in girth but I cannot imagine using one of the mid sized rings much less the smaller ones.  If you want,  I would gladly mail a smaller (unused) ring out of the collection so you can see if it will seat on the base of any of your tubes.  They are of no value to me.

Hawk
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: nemo on March 05, 2008, 12:33:21 AM
Hawk, I felt the same about the Osbon rings when I got my VED a few years ago.  I'm not overly girthy, but I do get wider in the middle of the penis (back in the days when my penis and I were on good terms, I lovingly refered to it as "The Cobra".)  When I was examining the Osbon rings, the small ones of which are tighter than Dick's hat band (actually, that's a pretty good moniker), I just thought, "Well, that will cure the Peyronie's problem, because if I put that on, my pecker's going to fall off on the floor." 

I later tried one of the larger rings, but like Old Man says, you need to use lube to get it off.  I didn't and getting it around the mid-flair of my manhood was not a pleasant experience - something akin to skinning a potato.  My biceps were trembling as my purple fingers tried to pull that ring as far open as I could, which of course, only made its aperature a wide, FLAT hole.  A little lube would have indeed been nice.  Those rings still make me nervous!

Nemo
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/application of retainer rings
Post by: Old Man on March 05, 2008, 10:48:38 AM
Nemo and others using Osbon retainer rings:

Your experience with removing the retainer ring reminds me of what most guys go through with when first using the Osbon rings. If you will look back at Dr. Tim's post showing a picture of the Osbon ring you will note that it is of a special design.

The rings are not entirely round, but have a protrusion on each side of the inner topside. The have an identation in the middle of the topside and one on the bottom side. They also have an outer loop on each side to allow for easier removel. The indentations are designed to allow the dorsal membrane to be free of pressure and the urethra be free of high pressue. The protusions are designed to put added pressure on the two corporal chambers to hold more blood into them. Round retainer rings without the outer loops to allow for easy removal are much more difficult to remove.

The Osbon Esteem model VED comes with 4 retainer rings, an instructional video and a written brochure that explains the different levels of tension applied by each retainer ring by their color. The video shows how these rings are applied to the cylinder and thus onto one's penis. It states that careful use of these rings must be applied or pain or discomfort would occur. At one time the company also packaged a very soft practice ring with the unit, but since they are not due to their not being durable and some guys were using them to hold up erections but they failed.

My experience, and that of others I have worked with, has allowed me to gain valuable data on how to apply and remove the Osbon rings. As I have stated in just about every post where I gave instructions about my method of therapy that extreme caution should be exercised in applying and removing these rings. Lubrication of them and that of one's penis shaft is the key to successful application and removal without causing pain or problems.

My method of removing them is like this: Once I am ready to remove them, I lubricate my shaft and the rings enough to cause a very slippery surface. Then, with TWO fingers in the outer loop on each side, I pull out with enough pressure to allow the penis to deflate somewhat before trying to slide the ring upward toward the head. After the blood pressure drops off, then and then only, do I continue to pull the ring off.

Lastly, it is mandatory that one develop the correct tension ring from the set that comes with the VED. The brochure lists the varying degrees of tension that will be applied by each color and size. One must practice enough with each ring to become adept in applying and removing them comfortably. However, one must use a ring with enough tension to hold up their erection long enough for sex. The 30 minute rule should apply in all use of any retainer ring(s) on one's penis. A retainer or cock ring should never be placed behind the scrotum as some have posted on this forum that they do. It can shut off the flow of semen from the testes and problems can and will occur if this is done.

Hope that the above is of some help to those using the Osbon rings. After my early experimentation to get the right size I have not had any trouble with them since.

Old Man

Title: Travel with VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: JAKE52 on March 19, 2008, 03:56:23 AM
I own the the three chamber Soma Erect VED with its nifty carry case.  I travel at least 2X / month by plane, and have never taken the VED with me, thus interupting any disciplined therapy. Several month ago I remembered seeing a a story on a local TV news that was later repeated in the newspapers and even the butt of late night TV about a man who was detained by airport security until they inspected his carry-on bag by hand search to reveal a "penis pump" as the laughs went.

My travel is impromptu and I travel otherwise travel light, never checking bags. Have any of you traveled with your VEDs through airport security and if so, what were your experiences?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ptolemy on March 20, 2008, 02:18:39 AM
I have traveled numerous times with the Soma Erect VED – all three tubes - in my carryon luggage bag. Main airports include Los Angeles, Chicago and Toronto. The only inspection came when I was carrying too much shampoo. They ignored the VED. I think those stories of inspectors making fun of carry on items are simply stories.
Title: Travel with VEDs
Post by: bodoo2u on March 20, 2008, 02:59:55 AM
I wouldn't have the nerve to put it in my carry-on luggage. I might put it in the luggage I check in, but I wouldn't risk the embarassment of carrying it on. Some of those TSA agents can be pretty petty. Can u imagine one of them holding it up.  :-\
Title: Re: Travel with VEDs
Post by: Ptolemy on March 20, 2008, 04:42:31 PM
Quote from: bodoo2u on March 20, 2008, 02:59:55 AM
I wouldn't have the nerve to put it in my carry-on luggage. I might put it in the luggage I check in, but I wouldn't risk the embarrassment of carrying it on. Some of those TSA agents can be pretty petty. Can u imagine one of them holding it up.  :-\

It wouldn't bother me if the agent held it up for all to see. I'll never see those people again.

Now, if the agent tried to embarrass me, I'd take his name and report him. I mean give me a break, Peyronies is bad enough without some guy making fun of the humiliating things we have to do to address this problem.
Title: VED travel
Post by: Angus on March 20, 2008, 07:00:50 PM
   Copied from The Light Side thread, and it's still my thinking on TSA:

Travel with the VED:

   Throw in a pack of funnel cake mix in your suitcase.

   TSA whips out the VED tube, large, small, whatever.

   Stern faced TSA agent: "Sir, what do we have HERE???"

   Explain that you add water and the mix, cover large end with palm of hand, shake vigorously, and that tube is your funnel cake dribbler that dribbles the mix through the small end in to the hot grease.

   Offer to demonstrate at the check point and ask for bottled water and a hot plate. Smile broadly.

   You'll get through TSA in record time.


If you're not that adventurous, buy a couple of roses, cut the stems short and stick them in the VED and put the end seal on. Tell them it's to keep flowers fresh and it was recommended by a florist. If I ever travel with mine I'm gonna have some fun with it I tell ya. I don't find the VED any more humilitating than an arm cast for a broken arm. If some clown wanted to make a derogatory comment about my VED I'd be ready for a verbal sparring match.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on March 20, 2008, 09:21:18 PM
Angus:

Why not throw in a free home demonstration of how the VED works. Yeah, and right there in front of everybody in the inspection line at that!!!!

As you say, why be embarrassed about something when it is a vital part of one's life after ED and Peyronies Disease.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Mick on March 20, 2008, 09:42:10 PM
Old Man:

You took the words right out of my mouth!

Mick
Title: Re: VED's - Humor
Post by: Hawk on March 20, 2008, 10:26:23 PM
Guys,

I smile at this.  I try to be sensitive to other's sense of humiliation and realize I may not be typical, but I see this as a contest to see who turns chicken first.  I will bet I can make an inspector cry uncle if they asked me what a VED was.  If I felt kind I would say that is a medical device would you like me to explain?  If they failed to see the glint in my eye how about, "That sir or Ma'am is a penis pump.  This is how it works,  that part right there that you are holding seals tightly around the base of my penis snug up against my testicles.  Keep your hand right there and feel the suction when I hit this pump, don't worry, I wash this and my penis every fifth or sixth time I use it.  Now imagine this..."  I would then begin to describe the engorgement process.  I will bet money they will ask me to stop before I run out of steam.

I suspect Old Man for sure, and I, have both been through a few more medical procedures than some.  After a few prostate biopsies with attractive nurses, a dozed digital probes, being herded like cattle along with half dressed women through a Manhattan NY Xray lab, and finally a "MRI specra... with rectal probe", I am certain I could stroll through down town Manhattan nude if I had a waiver from prosecution.

I also like the other responses.  You are in control here.  It is your game to play as you will.  The hell with them, enjoy life and smile.
Title: In control
Post by: Angus on March 20, 2008, 10:38:28 PM
Hawk.... here here! Good summary.

Wash it every fifth or sixth time?  ;D  ;D ;D

I think Agent Wanda with the TSA would send you right through to your plane when you bark that out.

We are in control. Good times.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on March 22, 2008, 12:51:01 PM
Hi Guys,

I'm not sure if this should be under VED's or in another thread...

I'm in my 8th or 9th month of VED usage...  I've rather lost track, and, whilst I haven't noticed any obvious changes in length, girth or curvature, I'm convinced there have been changes in the shape and size of the plaque.

I have a clump of plaque about half way up the shaft on the upper side, and a band of rubbery plaque from there to just behind the glans. The clump is itself rubbery, although parts of it sometimes feel calcified.

Anyway, it's this clump which I'm as sure as I can be  (it's just about impossible to measure ) has become quite a bit smaller recently, which must surely be a sign that something positive is happening?

Old Man, you say you managed to get rid of Peyronies through VED usage, although I know you also suffer from ED. Was this how it happened for you? Could you be more specific.

Anyone else experienced noticable changes in their plaque through using VED , or any other method? 

Thanks.

Title: Re: Shrout - Reduction in Plaque without reduction in deformity
Post by: Hawk on March 22, 2008, 01:17:14 PM
Shrout,

I hope this is a positive sign but I must post a reminder that reduction in the size of plaque is a typical part of Peyronies Disease progression.

Plaque often reduces in size.  Frequently there is no change in deformity during this process but sometimes this is accompanied by an increased deformity.  This is not just a patient observation, but is a very well documented part of the natural course of Peyronies Disease.  That is why both reduction in plaque size, and reduction of pain, are almost useless measures of a treatment.  Both are part of the natural course of the disease.  This leaves objectively measured size, and bend as the standards of progress.  Erectile improvement can be a kind of a "semi-objective" measure.

In general, I strongly suspect the phenomenon of plaque size reduction is caused by the plaque losing its inflamed, dynamic, state and settling into a mature scar.  Hopefully the change in your plaque is true improvement.

Good Luck and stay committed.

Hawk
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on March 22, 2008, 01:52:07 PM
Thanks Hawk, I'll bear all that in mind. I'm sure you're right to remind us that it's best never to get one's hopes up too high with this disease.

In the meantime I'll carry on pumping, and keep you all informed of any further changes, if and when they happen.

Happy Easter to you all  ;^)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on March 22, 2008, 08:19:47 PM
Shrout:

Yes, I did get rid of my Peyronies Disease symptoms with extended use of the VED. It took the greater part of a year to realize the best results. It has been eliminated altogether as far as I can "feel" any plaque, scar tissue or other symptoms. I still have a slight indentation on the left side of the shaft when fully erect via the VED and restrictor bands. It does cause any curve or angle because of it though.

I used several exercise methods with the VED during that year of working with the VED. Since I was using the old Osbon Esteem with only one cylinder, I had to devise various ways to vary the pumping cycles and/or exercise routines.

It takes much patience and exercising to realize any effect of VED usage. Some cases work out faster than others and then again, there are some that just won't respond to VED usage at all. One just has to try using the routines and see if it will work them.

Hopefully you will begin to see some results soon.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: AR on March 23, 2008, 10:16:49 PM
Old Man.
I've used my new Vitality VED two times now with less than happy results and had a couple questions, or observations to run by you: 

First, I found the whole procedure a little too sexually arousing and wound-up masturbating both times. This kinda' seems counter-productive to me and am hoping it's a 'novelty' factor that wears off soon? 

The K-Y jelly that came with it seemed to dry-up and act more like a super-glue than a lube requiring me to use more and more, and get messier and messier. (Perhaps the eroticizing?)

The "clear" cylinder fogged-up with moister and I couldn't see a damn thing.

The pressure I felt was all lateral, mostly near the base, and my head was not drawn-out or up (lengthwise), at all.  In fact, nether time did I get very hard.

AR
Title: Re: AR
Post by: Tim468 on March 23, 2008, 11:35:43 PM
AR, I know you were addressing Old Man, but I had to chime in...

First, the novelty will wear off, and you won't end up taking advantage of yourself forever!

Second, it sounds like you are doing a few thing s"wrong". First off, KY jelly always dries up in my experience and so is not favored by most folks here. I use soap suds while soaking in the bath; others use shaving cream or other forms of lubrication that last better (and longer).

Finally, it seems that you are not getting drawn up into the cylinder well. We see this when someone gets hard first - making getting pulled into the small cylinder impossible (if it is sized "tight", it should be a little bit smaller than your erect girth). The key is to lube up the inside of the cylinder and enough around the base of the penis to carry into the cylinder with the penis. I (when using lube) put a moderate amount on my penis too - but I do not start to masturbate or forget about getting into the cylinder!

Work on getting this right - it won't work for you if you don't.

Tim

Title: AR's VED USAGE
Post by: bodoo2u on March 23, 2008, 11:38:27 PM
AR,

Keep at it, it takes a while to get the hang of using a VED. Before long you'll be filling up the cylinder and it will difficult for you to keep your enthusiasm in check. By that I mean you'll want to pump until your heart's desire, which is not advisable because you can damage yourself if you're not careful.

Another situation to watch for is trying to force duplication of results you achieve from session to session. Sometimes I can go above 6 inches in the tube, while other times I can't reach six. In the beginning, I thought that I should be able to reach my peak each time and suffered for it in the form of inflamed veins.

Bottom line: BE CAREFUL.

Bodoo

Title: Single cylinder VED questions from a new member
Post by: Ben on March 24, 2008, 09:43:17 AM
Hi there,
I'm a 27 yo boy from France. I suffer from Peyronies Disease since a trauma while erect 2 years ago. Despite a lot of uro's appointement I haven't seen no improvement. I used to take cialis and Vit E but abandonned them because it's expensive. I have ED. I have two ways of curve upward and lateral, and it's seems to be broken at the base, the suspensory ligament is damaged too.
I take now pentox and use a VED. I saw a slight improvement in erectile function and i'm happy with it, I can now have intecourse without any medication and saw progressively a return of night and early morning erection. My question are the folowing one :
1) my VED only have a large tube, can I hope the curve to be reduce ? I use it two or three times a day from 5 to 10 InHg
2) Does the VED improve the firmness while flacid because the plaque seems to surround and kind of impair the dorsal nerve ?
Title: Re: AR -
Post by: Old Man on March 24, 2008, 11:17:17 AM
AR:

First, a question. Does the Vitality VED have three cylinders? Or, only just one? If you have only one cylinder, you will have to modify the exercise cycles to accommodate having only the one cylinder. If you have the three cylinders, you can follow the 26 week protocol.

Now, having said that, I would strongly urge you to follow what the guys have said in the previous posts to you. One has to be extremely careful in pumping vacuum pressure. As Dr. Tim says, be sure that you lube the inside of the cylinders well along with lubing your penis well. KY Gel has proven not to be the best lube for VED usage. It does tend to dry up quickly and not afford the slippery surfaces you need for VED pumping. I have been using the Equate Personal Lubricant from WalMart (Costs about $2.00 per container) now for about 10 years with great success. It does not dry out as quickly as KY and does afford a slippery surface better. It also is water soluble and cleans up nicely with any good bath soap. If you use soap of any kind for lubrication, watch out for any irritation that sometimes occurs with soap solutions. You don't need any irritation or skin abrasions when pumping the VED. Extreme care should be used at all times to prevent damage or trauma of any kind.

Let us know how many cylinders you have with you VED. We can give you some pointers then about either the one cylinder or mullti cylinder VED exercises. In the meantime, as was stated below, try your best not to get an erection while doing the exercises (that is a full erection - I know that when first using the VED one has a tendancy to develop erections quickly) so that you can reap the full benefits of VED usage.

We are all here to help, so feel free to ask any and all questions. As far as I am concerned, there are not stupid questions, so ask away.

Best regards to you. Old Man
Title: VED's For Beginners
Post by: AR on March 25, 2008, 11:20:17 PM
Thanks Tim, Bodoo,

and Old Man:  Would've replied sooner but wanted to give it one more go before speaking with you.

First, the KY gel is history!  Last night I used my wife's fragrance-free "beauty cream" and had no sticking issues, and coincidentally, fewer wrinkles this morning.  I will get some Equate Personal Lube next trip to the 'big' store! 

And as for abusing myself: I got my wife to participate in the process, so she was present to take advantage of any situation that came up, thus eliminating any guilt I might've felt associated with not sharing, like the other times...

Yes, I do have the three cylinders to go with my Vitality (2 1/4", 2", and the 1 3/4"), and no, I don't know your 26 week protocol yet.

But this is what I've experienced thus far:  the VED does not get me hard, or "hard first" as Tim mentions, nor does it give me an erection (hard on) per say.  It doesn't pull me "lengthwise" so much as "sideways". What I come away with in the end, is this sorta' engorged flaccid thing.  I used both the 2 1/4" tube and the 1 3/4" tube with the same result.  As per the instructions, I pump 3 times slowly and wait 10 seconds, then again, etc.  The pressure I feel is borderline uncomfortable/painful and I don't think I'm over doing it by any means! The sensation of pressure is pretty much "overall" and not directed in any way at my plaque (if this is important?), which so far in my progression  has not been inflamed or painful (knock wood). Let me repeat that, knock wood!

I guess my expectations were that I'd be pulled-out longitudinally and then, laterally..?  I can fit in the smaller tube, but at the same time, my girth at my base can easily fill the 2 1/4" and feel very tight..?

AR
Title: Re: Ben - Using a single cylinder VED / RE: AR
Post by: Tim468 on March 26, 2008, 10:16:25 AM
Ben,

Welcome! Glad you finally made it here...

I think that you are seeing the general restorative value of the VED - it helps erections, IMO. The specific value of the smaller chamber is that it tends to "tug" the penis longitudinally (I am still trying to visualize being pulled "sideways" as AR reports). So, I used a larger cylinder only for a long time, but when I finally got a smaller cylinder and started using it, I realized the value it gave me in helping straighten things out. My curve is less (the good news) but my Peyronie's remains active and I have two new dents that were NOT prevented by the larger cylinders (I had hoped they would help me "fill out" and thus prevent the denting).

Your second question has two parts, and I think they are unrelated. For me, the VED does not seem to affect the fullness while flaccid. I do not think that (lack of) effect has anything to do with the nerve or location of my plaque (mine is mostly dorsal as well). I have heard, though, that some who use the VED report a fuller "hang", and I have heard many more reports of this from the people who have tried penis enlargement using chronic forms of stretching.

For AR,

I am quite confused as to how one could be pulled "sideways" in a narrow cylinder. It does seem from what you say that your penis is fatter at the base than nearer to the tip, and so a snug fit at the tip might be impossibly tight at the base (or a firm fit at the base might lead to a loose fit for the tip. If this is so, I have heard of tapered cylinders that might be more appropriate.

Helpful hint - the following link is not safe for work!

http://www.boyzshop.com/penis-pump-cylinders_246.html

Tim
Title: Re: AR - 26 week protocol
Post by: Old Man on March 26, 2008, 11:21:57 AM
AR:

OK, you do have three cylinders and that is good. Question: Are they tapered or are they just straight with both openings the same?

If they are not tapered like the Soma Correct or Somaerect, you might have a little more work to do with the exercises. The tapered cylinders forces the head portion of your penis to be kept rather tight in the cylinder which is what it is supposed to do.

The 26 week protocol for three cylinder model VEDs is posted somewhere on this forum, Child Boards thread about VEDs and their use. If you cannot find it on the forum, go to this site and you can print is out:

www.vacuumtherapy.org

There are links shown in the left hand column of the home page. Click on them to get any an all information about vacuum therapy. There is one link that takes you to the 26 week course protocol.

Keep us up to date on how you are doing with the exercises. You must have a lot of patience and understanding to keep up the exercises daily. Also, extreme caution should be exercised so as to not cause further trauma. Any pain or discomfort will indicate that something is not right and you have to adjust what you are doing, etc.

Practice is the best way to get the hang of successful vacuum therapy. So, take your time, do the exercises every day, but limit your time to begin with so that your penis can get acclimated to the added vacuum pressure.

Let us know if there is anything we can do to help. Having your wife participate in the vacuum therapy will give her much needed information at Peyronies Disease and its effects.

Old Man

PS: The 26 week schedule on the above site is under the link Extras which is in the left hand margin.
Title: Re: Old Man -Vacuum Erection Devices For Beginners
Post by: AR on March 26, 2008, 12:52:22 PM
Old Man. Thank you.
Yes, the tubes for my Vitality are tapered, and are the same tubes used with the Somaerect. 
I hear you about the practice, patience and acclimation, and I'll access the 26 week protocol right away.


Tim.
Funny enough my wife, when reviewing my post had trouble with "sideways" as well.  I told her: "Oh, they'll understand that!"  She'll be pleased to see your response.

What I mean is "laterally" or "girthwise", as opposed to "longitudinally", if this makes any more sense..?

As I stated,  I expected the pressure would be more longitudinally as if an imaginary string were pulling me through the tube and towards the pump unit itself, and that my penis would get "longer"...(maybe I visited too many sex-shops when researching for my VED)...a similar experience to what my X4 stretcher is doing to me right now.  And, by the way, as you mentioned to Ben, I definitely have a "fuller hang" after coming out of traction.

Thanks for the link.

Gotta' go get Old Man's routine and read it.

AR
Title: Cylinder Sizes at Augusta Medical
Post by: AR on March 26, 2008, 02:29:04 PM
Old Man. I remember you have either Augusta's Somacorect or the Somaerect.

As I've stated I have their over-the-counter Vitality.  I got it for a really good price from a company called Fitzz that was posted by Moguy awhile back.  They have great customer service/support and I like them, but there has been a great deal of confusion over cylinder sizes, between them and Augusta.

My largest tube that attaches to the pump head is 2 1/4" at the base.  I thought my next size tube would be 2", and that my smallest tube would be 1 3/4".  I just found out that this is not the case, but that from the 2 1/4" main tube, I will have a mid-size tube of 1 3/4", and that my small tube will be 1 1/2".

As, it seems, I just fit in the 1 3/4", and they haven't sent the 1 1/2" tube yet, I'm wondering if this is right?  What are your Augusta tube sizes, if you don't mind me asking?  Is there a "standard" sizing of Rx cylinders for regular guys?

Thanks.

AR
Title: Re: AR - Use of 3 Cylinder VED
Post by: Old Man on March 26, 2008, 04:20:45 PM
AR:

I have three VEDs. My original one was the old Osbon Classic manual model which had only one cylinder that was connected to the pump by a tube. It was unwieldy to handle. Later, I bought the Osbon Esteem manual model. It has only one cylinder that is tapered. I bought the smaller sizing insert to make the opening 1 and 1/4 inches ID. It worked better than the Classic, but still lacks the ability of the three cylinder models.

My present standby is the Augusta Soma Correct. It had a problem with pinching due to a gap between the cylinder openings and the sizing inserts. The company furnished me with the new Somaerect sizing insert which cured the pinching problem.

The sizes of the cylinders are: A = Small is 1 and 1/2 inches, B = Medium is 1 and 3/4 inches, and C = Large is 2 and 1/4 inches. These dimensions are I.D. and are on the end where the sizing inserts fit. The other end of the C cylinder fits up to the pump assembly. Cylinder A and B simply slide up into the C large cylinder.

There are two sizing inserts that come with the unit. Their dimensions are: Large insert = 1 and 3/4 inches; Small insert = 1 and 3/8 inches --all inside diameters.

When you get all three cylinders, you simply mate them together to make the smallest cylinder the one that you insert your penis in for the basic therapy. You remove the A cylinder during the weeks that specify using the B cylinder. Then finally during the advanced therapy, you remove both A and B cylinders and use only the C cylinder to provide the largest expansion, etc.

The 26 week protocol will tell you which cylinders to use in each week of the schedule. Just follow the routine and you should have no problem getting used to doing the exercises. Along with the traction you are using you should see the best results since you will be stretching your "tool" with both devices.

Again, just be careful and do not use too much vacuum pressure or stretching at any time. Let me know if this helps.

Old Man
Title: RE: Old Man - VED's For Beginners
Post by: AR on March 26, 2008, 09:31:46 PM
Old Man you are the best! Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Okay.  I have the large, the medium, and will be getting the small one soon, and they will all be the same size cylinders you have.

I also have the two "sizing inserts" that are not exactly your measurements, but obviously, the same.

The 26 week protocol is posted here next to my desk, and as soon as the UPS man brings me the small cylinder I will proceed...

carefully.

AR
Title: Re: VED's in Carry On Luggage
Post by: Ptolemy on March 28, 2008, 09:31:56 PM
If any of you have any worries after all the talk below, I travelled through LAX and Las Vegas airports this week with the VED device and 3 cylinders plus the Traction device. I even had the Lubrication cream (3 onces) in the see through bag. No problems.
Title: Dr. Lues email comment to Iceman in another thread...
Post by: Angus on April 01, 2008, 11:30:20 PM
Quote from: Iceman on April 01, 2008, 09:08:38 PM
to everyone - Dr L just replied to me: .....
2) Do you recommend the use of any traction devices to straighten and lengthen or will they cause further injury?

Ans: Vacuum device has been reported to cause Peyronie's disease. On the other hand, some companies are indeed trying to market penile stretching device. At this time, I cannot make any recommendation until there is better studies published.



   I am speechless, thinking about Dr. Lue's answer.

   I would like to see hard copies or evidence of these reports. If they exist.

   I suppose if I called Roto Rooter and asked them what they thought about running a plumbers snake through my houses drain pipe to clear the drain, they would answer "Well, the plumbers snake has been reported to damage pipes when used to clear drains. We need to get a federal grant and initiate a study to determine the impact of pipe snakes on drains, however at this time, there are no plans to initiate these grants and studies. Call back in six months and tell us how you're pipes are doing".
   I would suppose that a VED hooked up to a Pratt and Whitney jet engine intake and left on the penis for a week would cause Peyronies Disease. I would also suppose that running a marathon while wearing a VED encasing ones erection would also cause Peyronies Disease.

   Misleading answers to legitimate questions asked of experts are totally unacceptable and irresponsible. I'm beginning to wonder exactly who is the expert, and who is the patient. JMO, FWIW.

   Iceman, I'm sorry you didn't get better answers than you did in your email reply. I hope you're getting what you need from the forum, and I appreciate your posts.
   

   
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on April 02, 2008, 01:07:22 AM
hey angus - so would you recommend using a VED?? - if so, how do I buy one?? - I mean I dont know too much about this stuff - its all new to me - have you been using a VED and what is its outcome ?

Cheers
Title: Angus - VED Success
Post by: pal-31 on April 02, 2008, 01:45:03 AM
Angus,

Great stuff about the VED in the improvement section.

Can you please let us know other than the curve what other symptoms did you have before starting the VED. How long did it take to start seeing results ? Any other info will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Pal
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 02, 2008, 10:48:51 AM
Iceman:

Read your post to Angus relative the source of VEDs. They are available off the web from many sources as well as from some urology groups that carry them for their patients. In addition, there are many available over the counter. However, when selecting a VED, remember that you get what you pay for. I highly recommend, if you decide to use a VED, that you get a better medical quality one and not the "sex toy" models that are touted everywhere these days.

Before recommending a source for you, need to know your physical location (country) so that sources can be suggested. So, let us know where you reside and we can go from there.

Angus and Dr. Tim, and maybe others, have made their own VED and have had great success with their treatment(s) with them. I have used three different models of VEDs and had great success with eliminating my Peyronies Disease symptoms.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on April 02, 2008, 11:51:50 AM
Old Man, Angus
In January on my follow up visit to my uro we discussed the VED. He had suggested one a year and a half before for ED after the heart stents. To tell the truth I did not use it properly and caused an abrasion that took 2 months to heal.
After the failed implant surgery last October I found this board and talked to Old Man and he put me on the right path to use the VED.  :)
My uro believes that the VED is good for not only Peronies but for the fibrosis in my corpora's. We want the corpora's as healthy as possible for the next try at the implant later this year.
Over the last few months the good side effect of the VED is that I have gained back 1/4 to 1/2 inch lost to Peronies and fibrosis.
Thanks to old mans routine I have not hurt myself this time.
I got the VED through my uro. He had a rep come to the office and fit it for me. Before I had used an OTC model that did not work as well. Left a hinge effect and the constriction rings were not as good.
Thanks Old Man
Jackp

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 02, 2008, 12:33:56 PM
JackP:

Thanks for the vote of confidence for your success in using my suggestions to you for VED usge. I just wish that we could get the message out to any and all that suffer from Peyronies Disease that VED exercises, if used properly, can and will help with Peyronies Disease symptoms. Careful use is the key to its success.

It does not work 100% for all guys, but for the most part, only good blood flow to keep one's penis healthy could result from any use of the VED. It is my mainstay for Peyronies Disease therapy as well as great for ED help.

Again, thanks for your support,

Old Man

PS: JackP, are you sure that you want to proceed with the implant surgery again? Why not try the VED exercises a while longer before rushing into surgery again after the first one failed.
Title: Re: Angus - VED Success
Post by: Angus on April 02, 2008, 02:40:19 PM
Quote from: pal-31 on April 02, 2008, 01:45:03 AM
Angus,

Great stuff about the VED in the improvement section.

Can you please let us know other than the curve what other symptoms did you have before starting the VED. How long did it take to start seeing results ? Any other info will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Pal

   I got Peyronies Disease from a bout of rough masturbation many years ago. Pain at first for a few days, then a curve developed to the left. It progressed to a 45 degree bend over a couple of months. Then I began the treatments I've mentioned that didn't work. It never caused ED and function remained. I made the first VED a few years ago and started using it daily with Old Mans suggestions on use. In the next few months I made two additional VED's so I had three tube sizes in small, medium and large. I used Old Mans suggestions along with the 26 week protocol. 26 weeks for me was not enough time; it was seven or eight months before I started to see an improvement in the curve as it had gone down to about 30 degrees. Continued use of the VED's for almost a year and a half re-shaped the curve from the original 45 degrees down to 10 degrees or less, which remains to this day. 10 degrees to me is inconsequential as I had a small natural curve to the left all my life before Peyronies Disease. Function is completely normal with no ED. I have not experienced the constriction rings as I have not needed them. There is still an indenture on the left side where the plaque used to be, but the plaque or hardness has been gone for a long time. I still use the VED a couple of times a week as a maintenance program.



Quote from: Iceman on April 02, 2008, 01:07:22 AM
hey angus - so would you recommend using a VED?? - if so, how do I buy one?? - I mean I dont know too much about this stuff - its all new to me - have you been using a VED and what is its outcome ?

Cheers

   I would recommend getting and using a VED without any hesitation whatsoever. You bet I have used VED's and the outcome is stated above. The VED is not an overnight or one month fix. It must be given time to work and re-mold some tissues and takes a commitment of time from the user. I tried the quick fixes and they did not work for me. I wonder why more men don't try the VED for Peyronies Disease; maybe the commitment of a year or more of use scares some off; I just don't know. I do know that the testaments of Old Man, myself and others do not lie. If you want to get a VED, Old Man  is Your Man  for advice. He knows the ins and outs of VED's, which ones have good qualities and which ones are bad and has valuable information and contacts for procuring a VED. His advice, if taken, will save an individual valuable time and dollars, and will help avoid the frustration associated with getting and figuring out how to use a VED.
   If anyone wants to make a VED, there is information from Tim and myself in the "Highlights of VED's and other devices" post in the Newly Diagnosed Highlights. The link to this area is just below the main link to this Peyronies Disease Discussion Forum.


https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,439.0.html


There is no mystery to a VED; it is a tube with a pump attached and can be made very simply. The Osbons and others are super high quality, but if one pays attention to detail, a VED can be made at home by those unable to make a purchase as large as a medical VED.
I also acknowledge the early successes being recorded here by the users of Traction. I never used one as it's a more recent development as a Peyronies Disease treatment, but I welcome it's addition to the list of things that are working for some.
Finally, if there is still any doubt (regardless of what some, including famous doctors may say), a PROPERLY USED VED will NOT cause Peyronies Disease or more damage. If the advice of the long time users of VED's on the forum is followed, you will be fine and probably improve if you stick with it LONG enough, and you will not cause more damage. Advice and guidelines are all over the VED thread and can be searched.
  I get on a VED rant about once a year; I guess this is this years  ;D ... thanks for listening!! 

Angus
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 02, 2008, 04:03:21 PM
Angus:

Great post, just wish we could get the message across to more guys!! You stated that most men would not adhere to the schedule of exercises long enough to see good results. This is a very profound statement and I think you are 110% correct in it.

I have no clue as to why more urologists and doctors cannot see the benefit of VED usage. Dr. Geddings Osbon developed one of the very first VEDs. He, as I understand it, had Peyronies Disease too and experimented with different things until he discovered the benefits of the VED. I read somewhere that his first unit was made from a tube and a bicycle pump he reworked into a vacuum unit. Anyway, some of us know that it is a viable treatment/therapy.

Thanks again for your "plug" in your post. Again, I wish to state categorically that there is no interest on my part in any company selling VEDs nor do I sell them. I just know from my experience that they do work.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on April 02, 2008, 09:25:35 PM
Old Man
Besides Peronies I have low testesterone and a bad venous leakage.
Two words on why I want to try the implant again CONSTRICTION RINGS  :(
To maintain an erection I have to use a tight constriction ring. The tight ring takes away a lot of feeling and holds back natural pre-cum and ejaculation.
By the time the Doctors will try the implant again it will be almost a year and things have healed very well.
Also; after the back surgery I have more feelings in my penis, but not enough for sex.
Am I preprepared for the implant to fail again? Yes, I still will be able to use the VED.
Thanks for your concern, and helping me to get where I am with the VED.
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 02, 2008, 09:57:55 PM
JackP:

OK, just wanted to add my 2 cents about implants. My mother-in-law's last husband had an implant done and he was tickled pink with it. At age 74, he enjoyed it very much.

I know the problem with little feeling in one's penis. Went through that several times with bouts of Peyronies Disease.
It can be overcome with proper treatment if it is a nerve problem. My back surgery in 1968 helped a good bit with my lack of feeling.

One word of caution though, you need to ask your surgeon or uro about using the VED after having an implant done. It is usually not recommended after implant surgery. It can inflate the corpora around the implant rods and cause problems. Under some circumstances, the VED can be used after implants, but I understand it is only under the control of the doctors, etc.

Anyway, hope things work out you. Good luck to you!!

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: AR on April 04, 2008, 09:46:43 PM
Old Man.

I have my small cylinder, and am proceeding with the "protocol", but have a minor glitch to ask you about...

With the three cylinders in place, and the two "sizing inserts" installed, I'm left with a small space between the inserts and the small cylinder of about 1/4", that is causing me some discomfort and concern. After pumping, I'm left with a "ring-welt" around the base of my shaft where this discrepancy is.  Does this "space" exist with the Somacorrect, or erect ?

I'm thinking this might be a shortcoming of the OTC Vitality, and I may need to finesse it in some manner..?  Any experience with this miss fitting?

AR
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 04, 2008, 10:55:53 PM
AR:

What you are describing is the difference between the Soma Correct and the Somaerect VEDs. There was a "pinching effect" with the sizing inserts that came with the Soma Correct. It was corrected when the Somaerect was put on the market.

You need to get the new small inner sizing insert that comes with the Somaerect VED. They should be available where you got the small and medium size cylinders. If not, they can be purchased from the Augusta Medical Systems in Augusta, GA.

Their web site is: www.augustams.com

While you are waiting to obtain the new small sizing insert, try using less vacuum pressure. Also, try this: pump up a fair amount of vacuum, then hold the pressure for a moment, then use a "milking action", as I call it. You do this by simply moving the whole assy. out from your body about an inch or so while holding the pressure and then letting it slide back to your body. You can determine what speed of repetition you want to do this. You may need to add a little pressure while doing this to keep the right amount on your penis. It worked quite well for me until I got the modified sizing insert. Lastly, use plenty of lubricant while exercising with the VED.

Let me know if you need anything further.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Pops on April 05, 2008, 04:10:04 PM
Oldman and Others,

Which VED's seem to be best?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: AR on April 05, 2008, 08:35:40 PM
Hi Pops, and welcome to this great support forum.

I'm just a beginner here myself, but I did do a ton of VED research on the OTC, and better sex-shop models, and specifically, those with three cylinders.  If, like me, you don't have great insurance and can't afford a $600 Rx VED, then I'll be happy to share my findings with you.

This being said, you should first listen to Old Man's and other veteran's advice.

Best,  AR
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 05, 2008, 11:20:42 PM
Pops:

AR is right, he more or less made his own VED by buying the OTC version of the Augusta Medical unit called Vitality. Then he purchased the two other cylinders that come with the RX VED unit Somaerect. The Soma Correct unit was taken off the market some time ago due to problems with its approval by FDA. Anyway, AR's VED is basically the same unit after he bought the extra cylinders as the RX unit and based on his information cost less than the RX unit. He can supply the information on how he went about getting his.

My personal preference would be either the Somaerect or the Vitality and buying the extra cylinders like AR did. They are virtually one and the same pump assembly and the cylinder are the same. If you have insurance that would pay at least a portion of the RX unit, Somaerect, that would be an option. If you don't have insurance, the Vitality OTC with extra cylinders would be the second choice. However, this is just my opinion and recommendation. You would have to decide which way you would want to go with obtaining a VED. (The Somaerect unit does require a prescription from a doctor and most insurance will only pay if it is for erectile dysfunction, so remember that in making your decision.)

If and when you decide on getting a VED, the 26 week protocol that came with the old Soma Correct VED is available on this forum, from a trial unit on the web or I can email you a copy. Let us know what you desire to do.

Old Man
Title: Re: Early signs of Possible Improvement
Post by: MUSICMAN on April 07, 2008, 06:05:04 PM
I was reading the post from "Steve" in the search for a Uro. His experience
with the Verapamil and VED.  I have been using the VED for about 9 weeks
now and  I think there has been some improvement. Things seem a little
straighter and I seem to have less of a dent (hourglass)  I use the VED every
day with very low amount of vacuum.  I think it's the slow - slow  stretch
that can help.  I hope "Old Man" keeps telling us about the VED help.  Time
will tell more down the road.
                                                                       Musicman
Title: VED's
Post by: Angus on April 07, 2008, 10:04:21 PM
Good deal Musicman. Slow and consistent use of the VED is key. It took a while, but it worked for me. Keep us posted about how you're doing.
Title: Musicman's improvement
Post by: Steve on April 08, 2008, 08:56:35 AM
Great to hear of your improvement so early in the 'protocol'!  Like OldMan has always said, VED isn't the 'silver bullet' that will work for everyone, but I'm very encouraged by your improvement.  I haven't given up on the VED, and keep up with it on an almost daily basis while waiting for that magic bullet...at the rate research into Peyronies Disease is going, I'll be using the VED for quite a long while :D

Steve
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/therapy
Post by: Old Man on April 08, 2008, 10:53:16 AM
Steve:

Yes, you are right that VED therapy seems to take longer for some than others. There are some cases that just do not respond to the VED therapy. However, it is my firm belief that using the VED can and will help keep the penis more healthy than not using it for Peyronies Disease.

Just hang in there and maybe revise the way you do the exercises. There are variations to the basic VED therapy of just pumping, holding and releasing. So look for ways to vary your routine, but most of all do your best to do the exercises on a daily basis. Give me a PM if you would like to know my variations of VED usage.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/milking action
Post by: Ptolemy on April 08, 2008, 02:52:21 PM
Quote from: Old Man on January 08, 2008, 09:26:21 AM
Ptolemy:

OK, the milking action term is my own that I applied to a method of exercise that I did with the Osbon Esteem VED.

I purchased the inner/smaller sizing insert from the Timm Medical Div. of Endocare, Inc (present owners of the old Osbon VEDs). The Esteem came with a larger sizing insert which proved to be too large for my size, etc. Both innner and outer inserts provided a closer fit around the shaft of the penis so that more pressure buildup is allowed and felt more comfortable. You may or may not need additional sizing help.

Now to describe the milking action. It is sort of like milking a cow's teat only with the VED cylinder. This is how I did it: Get a good tight seal around the shaft of the penis, pump up to a fairly good erection, while holding this pressure at a moderate amount, move the entire VED assy, out from the body about an inch or two based on one's length, hold the increased pressure caused by this pulling action for a moment, let the VED pull back to the body, again holding the pressure and seal.


I've been using the VED since January 2007, about 15 months now. Since Old Man's advice earlier this year I've tried a few things with the VED - especially when using the small and medium sized tubes (the large tube is too big for me). I can't get the inch or 2 movement that Old Man refers to above but have made some movements in a manner that attempts to remove the bubble from the tube that exists from the plaque. i.e. moving the cylinder as I am pulling outward (milking) in the direction of the plague. This action - maybe 10 in and out movements during a 10 second vacuum rep - tends to get rid of the bubble over the course of the exercise. I can also feel stretching in the plaque area. If the stretching "feel" moves from a good feel to the early stages of discomfort I back off a bit to make sure no pain develops. I can say that I now have less of an hour glass effect and less of a bend. It's early so I don't want to get too optimistic. I should also add that I do use Traction as well so as Old Man has mentioned, when multiple therapies are applied it's difficult to know which one is working. I would say though, that if I had to drop either VED or Traction I would drop Traction.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 08, 2008, 04:31:47 PM
Ptolemy:

If the large C cylinder does not fit snugly enough for the milking action, try this: Use the A and B cylinders or all three at one time. Try the action with all three and if this is too small or too tight, take out the A cylinder and use only the B and C cylinders. That should work just fine for the milking action exercise. I use all three cylinders for my milking exercises, but just use much less pressure than during regular exercises. You might have to experiment with the different cylinders and pressures to get one that will do what you want it to do.

Let us know how this works out for you.

Old Man

This post was modified on 4/09/08. Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: AR on April 10, 2008, 09:54:15 PM
Hi Old Man.

I just wanted to check in and let you know that I fabricated my own "spacing ring" for my Vitality (as Augusta wouldn't sell me one, (because I'm not registered with them), etc., etc.), and I'm now proceeding with the protocol with out that pinching-welt-thing going on... but a question or two if I might:  As I stated under the traction thread earlier, I had a lot of pain the other night having sex with my wife (Maybe this is a good case for "one treatment" only), and I'm worried I may be over doing it..? The few times we've had sex shortly after I pumped, it seems like my hinging is worse and there's a lot more pain. Yesterday I pumped at around 6pm or so; a little later did traction for about two hours, and we had sex around 10pm. My hour glass and bend seemed to be worse and I had to use my fist for support to begin, but as we got going the pain actually subsided some. Does this ring a bell? I pray you or someone can tell me this is normal, because I'm concerned.  Am I pumping too hard? Is traction and pumping too much? Should I space them out better over the coarse of the day? Have sex on an "off' day..?

Any help appreciated.

AR
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 11, 2008, 10:25:12 AM
AR:

You should not be getting pain with either the traction device or the VED. (Also, having sex right after the exercises is not usually a good practice.) You might be using too much pressure with the VED. I don't know the inroads of the traction procedures. Those who have experience with it will probably give you a post about that.

I would suggest that you discontinue one or the other for a few days to see if it works better. If it does, you then need to decide which would be the better treatment/therapy or if you could continue with both but with less pressure or traction.

Another thing, I would refrain from having sex immediately after your exercises. Need to let the erectile tissue stabilize before you get an erection and having sex. Moderation is needed while you are doing the Peyronies Disease exercises. Slow and easy is considered the better way to go for the therapy.

Again, my statement to any and all is this: If there is pain or discomfort felt during exercises, you are probably overpumping or applying too much traction.

Hope the above will help in some way.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ptolemy on April 11, 2008, 05:27:20 PM
Old Man has great advice as usual.

My VED and Traction usage is cautious enough that having sex after usage wouldn't normally be a problem. My Peyronies was started with accidentally bending the penis during sex so whenever I feel any pain I back off whatever I'm doing sex or treatment.

By pain I mean irritation that doesn't feel good. There is good pain and bad pain - the slight pain I feel stretching my hamsting is good pain. The Traction gives me a feeling of stretching which is good pain when it's mild. Anything over that threshhold I back off.

My girlfriend does not live in the same city so sex is very consentrated over a weekend with no sex for weeks at a time. I have had to learn that sex for me no longer means an orgasm each time. My girl friend has been very accommodating at oral sex which is easier on the penis but sometime more difficult to orgasm.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on April 11, 2008, 06:38:15 PM
After almost a year of using the VED I am confortable having sex after using it. In fact, I prefer it. I have noted (and commented here upon the fact) that my penis is tretched out in a way that needs to be "restretched" out every time. Thus, after about 10 minutes of VED use, my penis is about 1/2 inch longer than it was (at a given negative vaccum pressure) at the beginning of the session. I have noted that this persists for a period of time. I am not sure how long it lasts, but it does not seem to exceed four hours - and may be as little as twenty minutes - depending on the forces favoring "retraction". Thus, I find my erections during sex are a bit bigger and harder right after a VED session.

I would add that I got to this point only gradually. Although I agree with the cuationary notes about sex after the VED session, do not forget that the VED is used by many to HAVE sex. Perhaps it is only after the greater than average vacuum pressures of stretching that one should be careful. As always, YMMV...

Tim

YMMV = Your mileage may vary
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 11, 2008, 11:16:19 PM
Dr. Tim:

Basically what you are saying about having sex immediately after using the VED is correct. However, those using it strictly for ED problems may or may not have Peyronies Disease. Those without Peyronies Disease and are using it for ED only do not have the worry of plaques, nodules and other symptoms of Peyronies Disease.

So, what I was trying to convey in my previous post was to be on guard for unwanted symptoms if having sex immediately after the VED or traction usage. As we all know there are no two Peyronies Disease cases alike nor is there any two ED cases alike. Each individual have their own unique set of symptoms and therefore must be handled on an individual basis.

Sometimes an individual will apply the theory of more is better when pumping up in the VED sessions. This will only cause more problems with edema, redness of the penile skin and in some cases very serious problems. Slow and easy especially with the VED therapy is my advise to any and all. Each person will need to evaluate his ability to have sex immediately after VED sessions so that further trauma/damage won't occur. There is no need to risk losing what is gained by the VED exercises in other words.

Anyway, each person must use their own best judgment and use caution about what will work them with the sexual thing. The above are just my thoughts from my experiences over the years.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Pops on April 12, 2008, 01:58:57 PM
I haven't obtained my VED yet, but one of the things I want to try is about 1/2 Viagra and Ved at the same time. I'm learning from all of your post and I'll try not to over do it. I will however want to use the Viagra for it's designed purpose after ved exercise because it would be such a waste not to. I haven't read any post by anyone trying this, but it seems that the increased blood flow from the Viagra would help the effect of Ved.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on April 12, 2008, 02:23:48 PM
Pops,

Using Viagra and the VED at the same time seems to me like a waste of money (or more precisely, viagra).

I have done that when I have planned on having sex soon. I had wanted to "pre-stretch" my penis before sex, because I like feeling a little larger and harder during sex (that is how I feel - I am not sure it is "real" - haven't gotten out the protractor yet). So, on evenings when I had sex in mind, had taken viagra, and then used the VED, I have noticed some things are different. I notice that the entire shaft is hard extending down into the perineum like a "real erection". This is sometimes different without viagra - sometimes it is softer down below the opening of the tube (below the scrotum). Since that is not where my problem is, I do not know if that matters.

Based on measures on the tube, there is no difference in penis size, which shows us that there is no better blood flow, or blood entrapment in the corpora. The VED tube exerts a supra-physiologic amount of pressure (in the form of a vacuum) that will at least equal, and probably exceed the delivery of blood naturally after viagra.

It is probable that viagra helps in general with blood flow and with anti-inflammatory processes at all times. But I do not think there is any likely additive or synergistic value to using both at the same time.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Pops on April 12, 2008, 06:56:24 PM
Tim

I'm not going to use Viagra every time I use my VED, but I don't plan on wasting the viagra when I do. The comments you made are interesting and it sounds like from your experience that things do seem to be different. I furthermore don't think I can afford to take Viagra every time I use VED. Thanks for you input. I value your comments highly. I know that by you being a doctor with the same problem I have that you have probally done much more in depth research than I'm capable of doing. Keep your comments coming.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Pops on April 13, 2008, 11:25:14 AM

AR & Oldman

I ordered the Vitality OTC yesterday, from Augusta Medical, and added the additional cylinders to the package, as advised by you. It should be in by Wednesday and I need to find 26 week protocol you referred to in previous post. Oldman said it's on the forum, but I don't know where to find it.

In case any of the new members are interested, the total cost was $335.00 shipping and all. I ordered by phone and the guy that took my ordered was helpful with my purchase. I told him I was on this forum and that I was using it for treatment of Peyronies. He said the VED was not built for this use but he knew that Peyronies was being treated with this device with success and knew what I was looking for on the extra cylinders. You  may be able to find this unit on another web site for less or you may be able to find a less expensive brand that works as well. I'm taking AR's and Oldman's advice and going with this model. It's suppose to be about the same pump as the more expensive Rx model and I think it will work as well.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 13, 2008, 02:43:12 PM
Pops:

Yes, the Vitality OTC VED is the same pump unit as furnished with the Somaerect VED. The only difference is the name stamped or shown on the pump for marketing purposes. The cylinders are also the same. If you have health insurance ask the agent if they will pay part of the cost. You would need a prescription from your uro or doctor to back up your claim. The RX must specify that the VED is to be used for ED and not Peyronies Disease for the insurance to kick in any payment. At any rate, ask if they will help.

The 26 week three cylinder protocol can be downloaded from this site:   www.vacuumtherapy.org

This site is in Birmingham, AL and they are supposed to be conducting a study using the three cylinder VEDs and publish their findings. As yet, I have not seen any report of results from their study. It has been going on for some time now and should be over soon, I hope.

Go to the above site by simply clicking on it from this post and it should go directly to it. Look on the left margin of their home page and you will see a link called "extras". Click on that link and it will bring the page with the 26 week protocol. You can print it out from there if you have a printer hooked up to you computer. If not, on occasion, several guys have simply taken a digital photo of it. Either way you would have it for your use.

If we can help further, just let us know.

Old Man

PS: Give me a PM and I will explain about how to use the schedule of the cylinders if your need too. It can be difficult to understand which cylinders are to be used with each week's therapy.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: AR on April 13, 2008, 09:31:35 PM
Congratulations Pops. 

I actually spent a lot less on my Vitality through a company called Fitzz, that Moguy posted awhile back (and, found it even cheaper from another place called Reach), but when I needed a little spacing-ring-part, Augusta gave me the once over and I wound up having to make my own.  You'll be able to "register" with Augusta and should have no problems with getting parts, advice, etc. in the future, and this, I guess is the price difference...

As Old Man and others advise/warn - be very careful.

Good luck.

AR
Title: checking my VED practice
Post by: gnosis on April 19, 2008, 01:36:01 AM
I bought the pump with a gauge and 3 tubes of different sizes from Jtstockroom which was a link here.  I have an easier time establishing a good seal at the base, and thus good vacuum,  with the smaller tube, 1 and 3/4 diameter.  I'm not certain I have the right size; perhaps the small tube of the three should be 1.5.  I have pumped about 15 times, quite regularly in the last week (daily).  At first at the 5 mark on the gauge, I got a little discomfort so heeding the discussion here I wait and around 5 minutes that passes.  Now I seem to be able to go up to 10 quickly before I hit that discomfort so I stay there for 5 minutes, then 12.5 for 5 minutes, 15 for 5 minutes, and 17-20 for 5 minutes but only if those feel ok.  If I pump for 15 minutes and get up above 10 there is a large expansion of my penis, like larger than I've ever seen it.  The hourglass effect almost disappears at 15 minutes and 12.5 pressure.  More impressive to me, the hourglass effect which is usually obvious visually when I pee, is mostly not there for like 12-24 hours after VED use.   It is still "there" in other ways but it is striking to see the change visually.  Moreover, when I palpitate the plaque which is large and at the base, the texture seems different.   I mean like the day after pumping or something.  I don't know what to make of it??

I have felt like I am going slow but it's hard to know???   

Regularly I have a small problem with the vacuum leaking a bit from the base.  If it is well sealed, I get the pressure up to a point and then just wait.  But with the leaking at the base, I have to pump a good bit to keep it at 10, and it's almost impossible with a leak to keep it at 17.5.   I'm thinking I need to use one of the plastic base things.  I don't know how yet.  I actually have another VED, the vacurect, that I haven't used yet.  ANd it has a bunch of plastic seals but I don't know how that all works yet.  Any suggestions about getting a better seal at the base?

So while there is a great deal of expansion of the penis both in girth and length, I haven't had an erection from the VED.  I thought that was one of its functions???  Since I do have some form of ED along with the Peyronies Disease that is a secondary purpose of the VED. 

I have a woman friend who lives across the ocean so I can have months without real testing or practice and then have a week or two of intensive discovery about where the Peyronies Disease and ED are at.  I heard Ptolemy's frustration with a similar situation but not nearly so far. 

Title: Re: checking my VED practice
Post by: newguy on April 19, 2008, 11:59:27 PM
I just want to post a quick message to emphasise a more cautious approach. My aim really isn't to achieve a "large expansion of my penis, like larger than I've ever seen it", but rather to take a sure and steady approach. It's positive that the hourglass effect changes the more you pump as this probabably goes some way to demonstrating how the process works over time, but it's important not to try to be too enthusiastic. I could of course be wrong, and who knows maybe going 'hell for leather' could make improvements come quicker, but it could also result in damage if you are not careful. Take into account that you could be using the VED for months/years to come. Just my view :).

Quote from: gnosis on April 19, 2008, 01:36:01 AM
I bought the pump with a gauge and 3 tubes of different sizes from Jtstockroom which was a link here.  I have an easier time establishing a good seal at the base, and thus good vacuum,  with the smaller tube, 1 and 3/4 diameter.  I'm not certain I have the right size; perhaps the small tube of the three should be 1.5.  I have pumped about 15 times, quite regularly in the last week (daily).  At first at the 5 mark on the gauge, I got a little discomfort so heeding the discussion here I wait and around 5 minutes that passes.  Now I seem to be able to go up to 10 quickly before I hit that discomfort so I stay there for 5 minutes, then 12.5 for 5 minutes, 15 for 5 minutes, and 17-20 for 5 minutes but only if those feel ok.  If I pump for 15 minutes and get up above 10 there is a large expansion of my penis, like larger than I've ever seen it.  The hourglass effect almost disappears at 15 minutes and 12.5 pressure.  More impressive to me, the hourglass effect which is usually obvious visually when I pee, is mostly not there for like 12-24 hours after VED use.   It is still "there" in other ways but it is striking to see the change visually.  Moreover, when I palpitate the plaque which is large and at the base, the texture seems different.   I mean like the day after pumping or something.  I don't know what to make of it??

I have felt like I am going slow but it's hard to know??? 

Regularly I have a small problem with the vacuum leaking a bit from the base.  If it is well sealed, I get the pressure up to a point and then just wait.  But with the leaking at the base, I have to pump a good bit to keep it at 10, and it's almost impossible with a leak to keep it at 17.5.   I'm thinking I need to use one of the plastic base things.  I don't know how yet.  I actually have another VED, the vacurect, that I haven't used yet.  ANd it has a bunch of plastic seals but I don't know how that all works yet.  Any suggestions about getting a better seal at the base?

So while there is a great deal of expansion of the penis both in girth and length, I haven't had an erection from the VED.  I thought that was one of its functions???  Since I do have some form of ED along with the Peyronies Disease that is a secondary purpose of the VED. 

I have a woman friend who lives across the ocean so I can have months without real testing or practice and then have a week or two of intensive discovery about where the Peyronies Disease and ED are at.  I heard Ptolemy's frustration with a similar situation but not nearly so far. 


Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 20, 2008, 09:46:57 AM
Newguy:

You are exactly right about pumping too much pressure during the VED exercises. VED therapy for Peyronies Disease is a case where less is better than more. More pressure than is necessary to achieve good results can and will cause more trauma. That is why some uros and doctors do not recommend using the VEDs for Peyronies Disease. You can even do further damage using a VED for ED if two much pressure is used and one applies the restrictor rings to hold up the erection. I know from experience that both are the case.

During my first encounters with the VED for both ED and Peyronies Disease, I caused further damage to my penis. However, after the healing process, I continued with the therapy and was successful in getting rid of my symptoms. A lot of practice, more practice and just downright anguish went under the bridge of experience before I learned the hard way how to handle VED therapy/treatment.

So, bottom line to all new guys using the VEDs, heed the WARNINGS that all of us are stating about over pumping your VEDs while doing your exercises. You will reap more benefits from less rather than more.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on April 20, 2008, 03:19:53 PM
Old Man
Keep up the good work. Slow and easy is the best approach. When I first got the VED I started out all wrong and has an abrasion about the size of a silver dollar just behind the galns. Took weeks to heal even with meds from the doctor.
Your pump and release has worked well for me. Over the last several weeks I have gained back between 1/4 and 1/2 inches in length. Penis feels much better. I never could feel the fibrosis in the corpora's but now my penis feels much healthier to the touch.
Keep up the good work.
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on April 20, 2008, 03:46:41 PM
Hello Guys

I've been using the VED for about 9 months now, and I have to say I've reached something of a crossroads. I'm wondering if there's any point in continuing. I can safely say it's done me no harm, and may have caused some slight improvement, but certainly nothing that's easily measurable or obvious... I would have noticed!  (unlike jackp I have a very palpable fibrosis, and i fail to see how a VED can be expected to make any significant impression on it). A couple of times I've thought something significant was beginning to happen, only to be disappointed when what seemed to be progress proved to be temporary. Or maybe it was all just wishful thinking.
I must say I find it hard to understand the rationale (if that's the correct word) behind VED usage for Peyronie's. What's actually supposed to happen at a cellular level, and what's the agent of the change? Is it gentle stretching, or increased blood flow to areas around the plaque, or something else?
Traction on the other hand is more easily understandable for a simpleton like me. Virtually anything, if stretched with enough force for long enough, will surely undergo change. But is sufficient force or time to bring about change possible with the VED? My feeling is no.
I'm willing to give almost anything a try to reverse this affliction. Being a shy type, it took me 30 years or so to really feel at ease with women, and , in my mind, to get to see sex in it's rightful place as a natural part of a loving relationship. Then this happens, and pretty much all that confidence has drained away, so that now I'm reluctant to even approach women because I know at some point.. well, you all know what.
So I'm looking towards traction as a possibility, but notice that some of the enthusiasm which existed on the traction thread has faded somewhat. We're still waiting for the results of Dr.Levine's follow-up to the pilot study, if such a follow-up has actually taken place, and Hawk, you seemed to be making good progress back in February, but since then you've not notified us of any further progress. Has there been no more progress, or have you had to stop for some reason?

Sorry, this has been a rambling post, but I'm a little down and disappointed at the moment, and don't really know which way to turn... AND I've just burned the rice I was cooking for supper... DARN IT!!

Cheers guys

PJ... aka Shrout



Title: Re: VED's - How do they help Peyronies
Post by: Ptolemy on April 21, 2008, 07:14:57 PM
When my Uro suggested the VED I was willing to try anything. I've never been able to find anything though that explains exactly what it is supposed to do. I have been using a VED for over a year now and will continue. Here's why.

By the time I started using the VED I had plaque the size of a quarter, plenty of hour glass effect, a 90 degree bend as well as the turtle effect. It seemed to me that as the plaque grew and hardened, it effectively was reducing the amount of blood that was able to get into the area. Assuming that blood is required for good health maintenance as well as any possible healing, I see the VED helping more blood get to areas around the plaque than would happen without the VED.

I also use traction but if I had to discontinue one I'd discontinue the traction simply because of ease of use of the VED over traction. I can say that I have less bend now although the size of the plaque seems as large as its ever been. I have less of an hour glass look and can have intercourse now. So if I were you shrout, I would continue using it.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 21, 2008, 08:04:55 PM
shrout:

I agree with Ptolemy about continuing use of the VED therapy. Are you using it correctly? I have worked several guys who were about to give up on the VED and they started using a very simple exercise with the VED and they got good results.

What therapy routine are you using with the VED? Also, which VED do you have? The 26 week protocol works best with the three cylinder model VEDs. Another type of exercises will work best with a single cylinder VED. So it is important to know which unit you are working with for your exercises.

I will be glad to assist you in any way to get into a routine that works if you are having trouble with present one.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: AR on April 21, 2008, 10:06:13 PM
Hi Guys: Ptolemy, what exactly is the "turtle effect"?

Thanks

AR
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ptolemy on April 22, 2008, 12:45:31 AM
Don't know that its ever been defined on these boards but for me, the shrinkage/shortening of the penis from the plaque causes the head of the penis to function like a turtles head retreating/hiding under its shell.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices Turtle effect
Post by: Old Man on April 22, 2008, 09:59:11 AM
AR:

In addition to the explanation by Ptolemy, turtle effect is also a condition in older men whose sexual activity has slowed down. Since they have less sexual activity and do not get erections as often as when younger, the penis tends to "draw up" into the body. In some cases, they even have trouble getting their "tool" out far enough to urinate.

I have worked with several friends who had this condition. They started using the VED upon getting an RX from their doctor. It has worked in just about every case for them. Most have seen a recovery of their length and some even are having good erections again.

Old Man

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on April 22, 2008, 11:43:31 AM
Ptolemy : Old Man

Thanks very much for your response. I very much want to continue with the VED... I don't find it a burden to use at all, in fact I quite enjoy using it. I'm just rather puzzled as how the protocol for the VED (10 cycles of 10 second stretches per day) can possibly be enough, when traction requires hours of stretching per day. Is it that stretching with an engorged penis (VED) is considered more effective than simply stretching (traction), and therefore requires a lot less time to have an effect? 

OM :  I have the 3-cylinder Soma Correct, and I used the recommended protocol (10 x 10 second stretches per day, using each tube in turn as directed). After 6 months I increased the first hold to 15 seconds, followed by 16 for the second hold, 17 for the third etc. .. all the way up to 25 seconds for the last hold. Even that routine only amounts to a little over 3 minutes of stretching per day. Can that ever be be enough to have an effect on some pretty darn rubbery old plaque?
Having said that, I'd be very interested to try the simple exercise you mentioned which the other guys found worked well. Could you send it to me by PM? Or perhaps post it here so that other guys could try it.

Many thanks to you both. Your help much appreciated.

PJ.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: AR on April 22, 2008, 12:11:04 PM
Old Man and Ptolemy:
I thank you for that explanation of the turtle effect.  I thank God I don't have it yet!!

Shrout: Couple good questions there, but I think you've got the protocol with the cylinders wrong..?  I'm curious to see Old Man's response, and his answers.. If you're referring to the "milking" exercise, I hope he'll post it out here, as I could use more clarification as well.

Best,  AR
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/protocol
Post by: Old Man on April 22, 2008, 12:45:47 PM
Shrout:

I think that maybe you do have the protocol down wrong. The website that has it posted does not give a very good explanation of it's regimen.
The way it should work is this: Week one of the schedule calls for all three cylinders, Week 2 calls for only B & C cylinders, Week 3 calls for only C cylinder and so on through the 26 week course. If one does not see any good results from this regimen, simply start over with Week One and repeat the entire course again. Remember, plaque probably came into being slowly and will possibly go away the same way. So, be patient, do the exercises as listed, and you can extend the number of cycles (I did with better success) as long as you do not feel any pain or discomfort while doing the cycles or afterwards. You have to be the judge of the amount of time and the amount of pressure. I firmly believe, as you do, that only 3 minutes of exercising is not enough to do any good. Just don't overpump the pressure at any time.

Now, about the "milking action" that AR mentioned. This is the way that I did it with the old Osbon Esteem and the new Soma Correct (Somaerect too): Using the B & C cylinders so that I could get a good tight seal around the base of my penis, I pumped up enough pressure to get a partial erection started. Then without adding more pressure I pullled the entire assy. out from my body an inch or so and held it with the pressure on for about 10 seconds, then pushed the assy. back against my body still holding the pressure adding any if needed to keep a good tight seal. Repeated these cycles for at least 10 minutes, but not long enough to cause any problems with pain, etc. Takes a little of practice to get used to this, but it can and will do a better job of the vacuum therapy. You can also do the regular cycles first and then do the milking action cycles. I found both to be very effective in getting a larger amount of blood flow and better results.

You also do the regular exercise cycles much longer than the three minutes you mentioned. Hold each cycle at least 10 seconds or more before relaxing the pressure. You be the judge of how much activity of exercises your penis will stand without pain or discomfort afterwards. Just use caution as the watchword in any and all exercises with the VED. This applies to all that using it.

AR: You now have the "milking action exercise" posted for all to see. It really is a very simple routine, but does give very effective results if used on a regular daily basis in a proper manner without overpumping the vacuum, for at least the 26 week scheduled course of cycles, etc. It can be repeated if the first 26 weeks do not give the results desired, etc.

Old Man



Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 22, 2008, 12:48:22 PM
Note to new guys:

If interested in using the 26 week protocol for VED usage, it can be found at this link (which has been posted on the forum before in several topics):

www.vacuumtherapy.org

It does lack a certain amount of explanation on the use of the cycles, but I will be glad to assist anyone needing clarification of them.


Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on April 22, 2008, 02:16:43 PM
Thanks Old Man & AR,

I'll print out that post... no.1318, and keep it for future reference, and resume my VED use... extending the normal protocol and adding the milking action as well ( making sure never to overdo it  :o )

I'll keep you posted.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: AR on April 22, 2008, 10:07:33 PM
Old Man:  Got it. Thanks for posting your "milking action" procedure again.

However, there is some confusion (for me) with the "protocol" I've printed out from that web site, and what you share...?  They make no mention of using all three cylinders the first week, and only B and C in the second week...?  I'm wandering if I have an older version, as they mention on page 2 that they will "..shortly be posting a new treatment protocol.."  wait. I see they mention the older is Spivey's, and the new one will be Dr. Levine's.. ?  Which are we referring to?

In the dark here,  AR        ???
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 22, 2008, 11:30:06 PM
AR:

I have stated all along that the Spivey protocol is based on the one that originally came with the Soma Correct VED made by Augusta Medical that was taken off the market. Apparently the Spivey study took the protocol for their study, but it is actually one and the same.

It should list the actual number of cylinders for each week, but for some reason they left off the first few weeks of not giving the actual number or letters of cylinders. Weeks one and two  of the schedule should list that cylinders A, B and C are to be used and Week three and four use only B & C, Week five C only for example and then pick up with the rest of the schedule. It looks like from reading the schedule again that the cylinder listed for each week means the smallest one for that week of exercise schedule which is required. (Small means all three cylinders, medium means medium and large, large means large only). I have the original Augusta protocol posted somewhere on the forum, I think maybe in the VED section of the Child Boards.

I have it also in a folder on my computer and can send it by attaching in an email. Will try to locate it and have it ready for anyone needing it.

Old Man

P.S: This post was modified by me to clarify the cylinder listings after my original post in case someone read the original which was in error about which cylinder(s) to use.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on April 23, 2008, 01:44:45 PM
Old Man

sorry to keep prattling on about protocols, but...

on P.18 of the Augusta manual for the Soma Correct , under the heading "The Initial Therapeutic Application", it describes what a therapy session should consist of, and states that it should be continued for 20-30 minutes.

on P.20 of the same manual, under the heading  "Tracking - The Therapeutic Treatment Protocol" its describes a therapy session as consisting of 10 x 10 second cycles. This is the same protocol as the one in the link you provided...

www.vacuumtherapy.org

... and this is the one I've been using, with a little adaptation, for the past 9 months or so.


Little wonder I'm confused. Which is the correct protocol to follow? As we've both agreed 3 minutes a day is nowhere near enough, I guess it must be the first one.  If so, I've wasted 9 months following the wrong protocol.


Many thanks in advance.

PJ.


Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 23, 2008, 03:46:35 PM
shrout:

Yes, there is and has been quite a bit of confusion about the 26 week protocol. It was first published for use with the old Soma Correct VED when it was put on the market for Peyronies Disease therapy. The study that is being conducted at the vacuum therapy clinic in Birmingham, AL is using the three cylinder VED. The protocol they are using is exactly like the original one with the Soma Correct VED. However, they did not give enough instructions about each weekly cycle, i.e. which cylinder or cylinders to be used for that week's exercise cycle, etc.

I agree with you totally that 3 or 4 minutes of exercises is not enough to do any good. So, increase the number of cycles and/or time that you do them. However, do not overdo it to the point of causing pain or any further damage/trauma. Be extremely careful not to use too much vacuum pressure. Each person has a different level of endurance/pain so use your best judgement about what is enough.

Angus and myself are in the process of getting a revised schedule that is more explicit and easily read and understood placed in a prominent place on the main forum. So watch for it soon if all goes well with the transition.

I can email it to anyone desiring it simply by giving me your email in a PM. Will be no problem for me to do that. I have written it out in plain English, etc.

Old Man
Title: 26 week protocol: posted in Child Boards
Post by: Angus on April 23, 2008, 05:43:04 PM
An easier to understand, clearer version of the 26 week protocol is now posted in the Child Boards, VED thread and can be found easily. Go to the Child Boards, the VED thread and scroll to near the bottom of the single post because entries there are in chronological order (oldest first, newest last, so the newest entries will be at the bottom). The text of the better-worded protocol is in RED, compared to the other entries which alternate from black to blue.



https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/board,18.0.html
Title: Shrout
Post by: Angus on April 23, 2008, 06:41:43 PM

   The 9 months you've spent sticking with the protocol shouldn't be thought of as a waste of time; you've stuck with the program, but with shorter sessions of pumping. If you can't see huge results right now, don't think that something hasn't been going on with re-molding the penis. When I started with the VED I experimented with everything from 4 or 5 minute sessions all the way up to 45 minutes or more, with varying cycles and vacuum pressures as I hadn't contacted Old Man for the procedures when I started out. It took approximately a year and a half before I saw visible results, but the results have remained stable (about a 10 degree deflection now... perfectly acceptable to me compared to the 45 degree bend I started with).
   You can add time to your sessions and add more cycles, lengthen the duration of cycles and so forth. Keep the vacuum pressure down low and lengthen the time "in tube". You're body will tell you when it's time to end the session when any discomfort is felt.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on April 24, 2008, 01:49:41 PM
Thanks Angus.

The story of your improvement ( and Old Man's as well ) through VED use gives
me ( and all of us, I expect ) a great deal of encouragement to continue, which I will do now, taking on board what you've said.

I'm still a bit peeved that Augusta Medical should publish two very different protocols in the same manual, one of which an expert in the field (OM) agrees is of little use. There's no note in the manual to say that the number of cycles/ stretch times can be gradually increased once the penis gets used to the exercises.

Whatever. Anyway, perhaps what you say about the 9 months not being completely wasted is fair comment. I hope so.

Thanks again.

PJ.

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 24, 2008, 04:56:24 PM
shrout:

In case this would make you feel better about the manual from Augusta, since the Soma Correct had to be taken off the market due to  FDA's disapproval of it for Peyronies Disease, Augusta did not make any corrections to the manual. This problem was brought to their attention early on and the above was the answer I got.

However, I agree with you that some effort should have been made to at least alert the guys that bought the Soma Correct that the times could be adjusted. It could have been possible that the development department of Augusta did not research this area well enough.

Anyway, you now have the better schedule to follow, so get back into the protocol from Week 1 and stay on a regular basis with daily use.

Hope this helps,

Old Man
Title: We're writing the manual... my .02
Post by: Angus on April 24, 2008, 07:02:35 PM

   Just my two cents...
   The number of urologists in North America (and maybe the world) that even accept the VED as a viable treatment for Peyronies Disease can be counted on one hand, or maybe just a couple of fingers. The number of companies making suitable VED's for treatment (triple cylinder) are but one or two. The only written word that we had come across that was a protocol for treatment of Peyronies Disease was the 26 week protocol, then the FDA sat on that, so our only written word was squashed and removed.
   The reason we have no manual to read for Peyronies Disease treatment with the VED is... because we are writing it and it isn't finished yet. I know it's frustrating for new guys who find it so hard to bring all this information together with the type and brand of VED to get, the protocol (and how long to use it) together into a coherent, easy to understand format. The same thing can be said for traction and supplements. Everyone that is trying the VED, traction, supplements or a combination of these things along with other methods on the forum must keep posting their observations, results and thoughts on the forum, because we are it... we are the ones logging results and methods used to attain those results. So guys, keep up the protocol, read Old Mans suggestions, be safe and reasonable with your VED use, and above all, be patient. The VED protocol that worked for some of us is not a one or two month quick fix; in some cases the 26 week protocol must be repeated until any chance of results are seen. Every post you make with ideas, results, questions or thoughts becomes part of the overall makeup with what we are doing here... finding something that helps fix Peyronies Disease.
   Thanks to all of you who post! This is what makes our forum one of the best, if not the best, for help with Peyronies Disease.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 24, 2008, 10:04:38 PM
Angus:

Great post! Could not have been said better. Yes, we all have to keep on keeping on until something in the medical field breaks for us.

Every contribution of any kind to this forum, be it either negative or positive, is what makes it for all.
Everyone should post their findings for the world to see.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: AR on April 25, 2008, 06:01:16 PM
Old Man, and Angus:

Just printed-out the new revised protocol.  Thank you both.  AR
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 25, 2008, 09:16:43 PM
AR:

No problem, we should have done that a long time ago. I had this one in a folder on my computer. It crashed, but somehow we were able to restore a good portion of my files. Hope it work out for you.

Glad to be of service to all.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices--what is "erection"
Post by: gnosis on May 02, 2008, 01:27:59 PM
I'm looking at the Revised protocols of Spivey.  I've used the VED purchased from stockroom about 25 times mostly daily for about 20 minutes.  I have two things I don't understand in the protocols:
First I don't understand what is meant by "(2) engorge the penis filling the cylinder and hold a straight erection for 5 to 10 seconds". The pumping I do expands and engorges my penis but it has not created an erection; i.e. it has not created rigidity nor the feeling of erection.  While I have some difficulty with ED I get "erection", rigidity and the excitement with masturbation, fantasizing, sexual activity.  So when the protocol says, "engorge the penis filling the cylinder and hold a straight erection" are they meaning until the penis is engorged to the size of an erection or do they really mean erection with rigidity and I just haven't had that outcome of pumping, yet?

Second, they say (engorge the penis filling the cylinder).  With the 1.75inch cylinder, yes, with the engorgement (beyond normal erection size) the penis fills it.  But with the 2 inch, it won't really fill it ever. 

Third, The 2.25 seems too large to be having a different function from the 2".  My thought is that I should have a 1.5" tube for the A cyclinder, but I'm wondering if I'll have a problem with Cylinder A from the reports it can be too small and better to just drop it.   So a definition of B cylinder could be that the engorged penis can fill it and that it is larger than a normal erection with that engorgement? A definition of a C cyclinder might be that it cannot be filled???
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on May 02, 2008, 11:38:10 PM
Gnosis,

I think that you are over thinking it.

If your penis is as filled up with blood and as stiff while in the chamber, then that is an "engorged erection". It not only does not have to be a spontaneous erection, associated with arousal, but it might even be better if it is not. When I start to get hard on my own, then I have trouble getting into the narrowest cylinder - too late!

I agree with the comment about the third or largest size. I think the idea is that the smallest is confining and limits the penis to longitudinal stretching primarily. The wider one allows for some bending but a straightening force is still applied. If one has a 80-90 degree bend, then a larger than your natural diameter tube will still be exerting a lot of straightening forces. But if you can rattle around in there, then the larger yet one does seem redundant to me too.

FWIW, I tend to only use the narrow tube for straightening forces, and less often use the wider one.

Tim
Title: Smallest cylinder and stretching
Post by: Angus on May 03, 2008, 12:30:40 AM
  I tended to use the small 1.5 inch cylinder much more than the medium and large sizes the more I used the protocol. I felt that more confining and stretching lengthwise in the small tube was doing more to correct the actual curve I had, while the larger tubes had less effect on the curve. I absolutely feel the larger tubes have a place in the therapy because they allow a full width erection, and this alternated with the smallest tube makes a well-rounded exercise with the two different forces alternated. My two cents.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 03, 2008, 12:08:44 PM
gnosis:

I agree with Angus and Tim on the VED therapy sessions. Both positions have much merit in treating Peyronies Disease with the VED. The Spivey protocol is actually the one that was published by Augusta Medical for their Soma Correct VED when it first came on the market. FDA shut down the sales of the VED due to some quirk of the approval mechanism they adhere to for VEDs being used for Peyronies Disease. In it's place, Augusta made the newer model called Somaerect (sold only for ED therapy now) which is virtually one and the same as the Soma Correct model but does not include the protocol in the package.

The vacuumtherapy.org site simply took the Correct protocol and left out a good portion of the data which stated which cylinder to use in which week. I took the Augusta original protocol and re-typed it into a more manageable schedule with added notes at the bottom of the page. Look it up on the child boards thread under the VED highlights topic and scroll down to the bottom of that section and you will see the modified schedule highlighted in red for emphasis. Angus is due credit for setting this up on that topic and kudos to him for doing that.

I know that you are somewhat anxious to get some good results started as quickly as possible, but all of those on the forum using the VED have now realized that VED therapy works slowly. So, stick to the modified schedule, don't overpump the vacuum pressure and above all, have patience with yourself and just keep doing the exercises. Again, I must state that patience is the watchword in vacuum therapy. We are all here to help, so feel free to ask any and all questions about VED usage.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on May 07, 2008, 12:45:31 AM
old man:

ead your post to Angus relative the source of VEDs. They are available off the web from many sources as well as from some urology groups that carry them for their patients. In addition, there are many available over the counter. However, when selecting a VED, remember that you get what you pay for. I highly recommend, if you decide to use a VED, that you get a better medical quality one and not the "sex toy" models that are touted everywhere these days.

Before recommending a source for you, need to know your physical location (country) so that sources can be suggested. So, let us know where you reside and we can go from there.

Im from australia...


Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on May 07, 2008, 09:23:59 AM
IceMan,

I'm thinking that Old Man already knows where to get a good VED - was this post directed to someone else?

Actually, Old Man is so old he was around before there was even acrylic plastic.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 07, 2008, 10:56:05 AM
Tim:

Thanks for the vote of confidence on my age!! Yes, I will be 79 later this summer. Plastic was definitely not around during the 1930s. The 1940s saw some early versions of it being used in the military. Today, we cannot live without it.

Yep, I am old, but still enjoy a good chase around the bedroom when I can get the wife of 45 years willing!! I work out at the Y three times a week for a cardio vascular session of about 45 minutes to an hour. My cholesterol count stays around the 125 mark with both LDL and HDL staying in the low range all the time.


Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices Source in Aussie Land
Post by: Old Man on May 07, 2008, 11:02:40 AM
Iceman:

OK, now that I know where you live, I can steer you to a source of VEDs of medical quality in the Down Under land. Go to this website:
www.augustams.com  on line, make your inquiry to the attention of Louis in Sales and Marketing.

There is one other person in your country that has bought one of their VEDs through a local source. I think that what will be recommended for you is to buy the OTC Vitality manual model and purchase the two extra smaller cylinders. It is designed primarily for ED, but it works well for Peyronies Disease when you have all three cylinders. Some health insurances will help pay for the unit if it is prescribed by a doctor for ED, so look into that angle also.

Anyway, ask Augusta about the source in your country as I know that they have one there. If you need me to contact the company for you, just let me know and I will help.

Regards, Old

PS: Be sure to read my post back to Tim about age.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: MUSICMAN on May 07, 2008, 02:04:24 PM
I'm sure that "Old Man" will give a reply but input from other would
be of help also.  With the use of the VED, would you say that if a
improvement in made, it would be girth first and then bend/hourglass?
Maybe a little of both over the time? The reason for the question is that
I seem to have some improvment with girth but not with the bend.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 07, 2008, 03:32:20 PM
MM:

You will probably see improvement in both girth and length before the indentations, plaque or nodules go away. Sometimes, you even get straight again before those symptoms begin to recede. It takes time for those to give any indications of "repair" so to speak. Some never go away, they just resist all efforts with oral meds, VED and other treatments.

So, bottom line, you just have to use patience and keep up a daily schedule of exercises. If you are using both traction and the VED, you must maintain a regular schedule of both and not skip any days if at all possible.

Old Man
Title: Indentations
Post by: Angus on May 07, 2008, 04:49:41 PM

    Everything Old Man said (the Before Plastic Old Man  ;D ) plus re-affirmation... the indentations are tough and for me, remain. the only thing that makes sense is the indentation or scar tissue remains after plaque goes away, and all that remains is cavernosa tissue that cannot inflate anymore. I think it can be re-molded with the VED and/or traction, but I don't think it's inflationary ability can be restored. I'm not a physiologist but that's the only thing that makes sense to me. Tim? Mr. Before Plastics  ;) ? Thoughts?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 07, 2008, 06:47:46 PM
Angus:

I think that you are right on with your comments about the indentations, nodules, etc. Once the tissue has lost its (OEM) original elasticity, there is little chance of its recovery. Maybe, with the new research in collagen and stem cells we might see something in the distant future to help with restoration of damaged tissue.

For now, I guess we will have to settle for any kind of therapy that we can find that helps our symptoms. As you all know, VED exercises did the trick for me. Most of my indentations and other symptoms seems to have been reversed. I do keep a weekly schedule of therapy with the VED as a precautionary measure. It has worked so far.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: MUSICMAN on May 07, 2008, 08:16:23 PM
In reply to Old Man & Angus I was of the understanding that "Plaque and Scar
Tissue" was more or less the same. The body trying to protect itself by repairing
a wound. I did not think the plaque or scar tissue goes away as you say but
only streaches or softens. My plaque  ( lumps ) are larger and harder today than
they ever have been. When I first noticed the hourglass I did not have any plaque.  The hourglass was on the left and I bent to the left. NOW it seems that
the plaque is more on top of shaft or somewhat to the right but I still have the
bend to the left. I know I started this in the VED section and maybe if continued
should be moved.  Need more input!                         Musicman
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ptolemy on May 07, 2008, 08:20:09 PM
Quote from: Old Man on May 07, 2008, 10:56:05 AM
Tim:

Thanks for the vote of confidence on my age!! Yes, I will be 79 later this summer. Plastic was definitely not around during the 1930s. The 1940s saw some early versions of it being used in the military. Today, we cannot live without it.

Yep, I am old, but still enjoy a good chase around the bedroom when I can get the wife of 45 years willing!! I work out at the Y three times a week for a cardio vascular session of about 45 minutes to an hour. My cholesterol count stays around the 125 mark with both LDL and HDL staying in the low range all the time.


Regards, Old Man

I love this message. Keeps us all young and optimistic.

At the rate you're going Old Man, someone will have to beat you to death otherwise you'll go on forever!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices\age
Post by: Old Man on May 07, 2008, 09:52:51 PM
Ptolemy:

Just two words:  I WISH!!!!!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on May 07, 2008, 11:18:24 PM
Actually, I was hoping to start a lot of "Old Man is so old..." jokes.

I think that dents do not come out because mechanically it is hard to pull them out, just like a car dent. We cannot get a grip on them, so to speak. Now, it seems that linear pulling may stretch it all out (all the tissue in a line), and relieve a bend. If dents do not come out, then that suggests to me that when we apply a stretch (ie in the narrow cylinder) that more "normal" tissue is being stretched, and that is where you gain back some length (and in the process lose the angulation). Perhaps everything *except* the scar is stretched - but it does not matter if you lose the angle. But I could see how the dent remains.

It is my belief that the larger cylinders that should stretch a penis in the width do not apply nearly as much force as the smaller cylinder does on the length.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ptolemy on May 07, 2008, 11:25:15 PM
MUSICMAN, if I remember correctly you've been using the VED for only about 3 months. That probably isn't enough time to assess VED impact. I've been on the VED for 1 year and 3 months and although I believe it is helpful, there is no way I can be sure. Like you, today my plaque is larger than it has ever been. I'm not sure about the density, but I imagine it to be softer.

On the upside, I have less bend now than when the bend maxed, reaching close to 90 degrees. At least I can have sex now. I'm using Traction as well and length has recovered some but I'm still 1 inch or more shorter.

I am concerned that the plaque will continue to grow. On the other hand, maybe the plaque is stretching because of the VED and Traction. Bottom line IMO is that whatever is happening to the plaque would be worse if I was doing nothing. So I'll keep at it until my penis falls off in my hand I guess.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: ocelot556 on May 08, 2008, 01:23:38 AM
So the VED's we should be looking at if we're starting to look into buying one are mostly all made by Soma or Obson? I don't seem to see any other major company mentioned in the scollback - although I heard mention of someone making their own? And is there a world of difference between manual and battery powered?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 08, 2008, 09:52:09 AM
Ocelot:

Yes, there is a great difference in using a manual versus a battery powered VED. The manual VED allows for a variable amount of pressure that can be controlled very easy. Sometime, the battery powered models do not allow for quick or rapid release of the pressure. Overall, most of us use the manual units for that reason. There is nothing wrong with the battery powered units mechanically, but they do cost more.

Yes, there are other model VEDs of good quality available on the market. However, the ones with three cylinders are not as plentiful as the Augusta models. The Osbon models are not, to my knowledge, made with three cylinder versions. There are less expensive Augusta models available by adding two extra cylinders to one of their basic models.

Hopes this helps with your decision if you are considering a VED. Will be glad to help you in any way if you need it.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Angus on May 08, 2008, 12:10:09 PM
Quote from: ocelot556 on May 08, 2008, 01:23:38 AM
.... although I heard mention of someone making their own? .....

   Yes you can make your own. I made my VED's from hardware store and mail order tubes and a hand pump from a sex store VED bought years ago... it's useless tube was discarded but it came with a good pump. I switch this pump to whichever size tube I want to use. Tim has assembled VED's from high quality parts he has ordered. The idea of making VED's doesn't fly with most guys. I think lots of guys aren't sure they have the skills to make one, plus they may think they might make something wrong that would potentially hurt them; I'm not sure of the reasons because nobody has said why they don't make their own. I do realize that for something as important as choosing the right device for VED therapy is a huge decision. But I am a tinkerer; I enjoy making things. I studied VED's, realized that the preferred ones have 3 different sized closed-end tubes with a hand pump attached to one end, realized that I could make them, and I did. They function just like a purchased VED and have held up to this day, years later. Granted, the ones I made won't win any beauty in manufacturing awards, but on the other hand they aren't destined to be displayed in a Macys display window either.
   If someone doesn't have the facilities to make them from scratch, parts can be ordered to assemble fully functional VED's with the correct size tubes like Tim did. Recommendations and sources are noted in the VED thread of the Child Boards if anyone wants to explore this.
   With that being said, the VED's recommended by Old Man are top notch, quality, proven units and work for this purpose very well. However, if someone is on a tight budget, VED's can be made for very little money that will work well and not hurt you, but they must be used with the same safety recommendations made on this board for years.
Title: Re: VED's - Manual vs. Battery Powered
Post by: Ptolemy on May 08, 2008, 12:41:11 PM
I guess it depends what you get used to. I use a battery powered unit and would never switch. The vacuum pressure can be stopped at any moment and the release switch is easily accessable. I have never over pumped and I can use the unit with one hand (not that I have anything to do with my other hand when I'm using the VED).
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Toby on May 14, 2008, 09:55:30 AM
Hey guys, I was hoping one of you could help me. My uro prescribed a vacuum pump, the osbon esteem manual model. When I use it, I get a lot of discomfort around the base. I am also getting scrotal tissue drawn into the cylinder. Then after use I notice pain and enlargement of the testes. I have spoken to  my uro and product reps about this. I am not very large and am having a heck of a time trying to use this thing. I have rested a few days and tried again using very mild pumping action, but again the same results. I dont want to injure my testicles so have using very conservatively, but still no luck. I am about to give up on the pump but dont want to because I have seen my curvature completely straighten while inside the cylinder. The rep gave me a reducer to fit inside base of pump , but for some reason I am still drawing skin into cylinder. I can see it looks like bulging at base of penis. I hear some of you talking about multi cylinder models. Has anyone experienced this? I spoke to my uro as I was concerned about damage, He has heard of this said it is usually mild. He set me up with 2 sales reps to help with a demo. Probably  the most humiliating day I had in a while. 2 men in a drs. office trying to help me with this device. But still drawing skin into the cylinder. I have app. with uro in a couple of weeks and hesitant to use this again till then. Any body PLEASE HELP ME.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 14, 2008, 10:43:16 AM
Toby:

What you are experiencing is not an uncommon problem with the Osbon Esteem manual or battery powered model VED. I am surprised that the two reps do not know that there are several sizing inserts available from the Timm Medical Div. of Endocare, Inc. Timm assumed production for the Osbon products several years ago and they still carry the retainer rings for ED and sizing inserts for Peyronies Disease/ED for their equipment.

You should contact the Timm Medical Div. as soon as possible to get the smaller sizing inserts for your VED. I own one of the Esteem models and had to acquire the smaller insert. You can reach the company at this toll free number:  1+800-438-8592

Before calling the company you could ask your uro and the sales reps who gave you the demo about the inserts. They should be aware of this problem.

The three cylinder model VED does provide a much better basis for Peyronies Disease therapy. It gives one the option of using several size cylinders which makes for a better use, etc. The protocol for the three cylinder models is posted in the Child Boards section of the forum under that title. Scroll down to the bottom of the topics list and select the VED section. The protocol is near the bottom of that section.

You are right that while you are pumped up in the cylinder, your penis does take on a better shape/configuration. If any of us can help further, just let us know.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Toby on May 14, 2008, 07:53:46 PM
Old Man: Thank you for your prompt reply. I have been reading the forum and you seem very knowledgeable. I did call Timm Medical and explained the problem to them, and I did get the smaller insert. I asked them if they made a smaller insert than this and they said they did not. I dont know if that would help anyway as after achieving an erection it is kind of snug trying to remove my penis from the cylinder at the end of the session. Do you think that the 3 cylinder model might be a better way to go? Also thank you for the information on the pumping protocol. My reps told me to pump 2x wait 5 to 10 seconds, then pump 2 more times and release the vacuum, saying this is 1 cycle. Repeat the cycles until the penis lifts of of the cylinder. The only problem with this is each time I release the vacuum I have to start from scratch. Or the pressure around the base gets to be too much and I begin drawing in scrotal tissue. Oh well , I see my uro in a couple of weeks and I will ask him about the 3 cylinder models. Thank you again, I thought this was a rare problem as I read the forum and didnt see anything about this. It is kind of discouraging to think that this device could be a godsend only to have my hopes dashed by these frustrating problems.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on May 14, 2008, 11:29:58 PM
Several thoughts. I hand pump blood into my penis at first sometimes when I am really "blood-less" and accordingly smaller in diameter than usual. This reduces scrotal "pull-up". Secondly, you can pump gently without ramming the cylinder flush to the pubis, and start to pump more blood into the penis (thus avoiding "pull-up"). Third, you can apply a hand to the scrotum to hold it in place, or to tug it back out. Fourth, you can avoid over use of lubricant which can lead to more pull-up. I find that it takes me a bit of time to come to a completely pumped up volume, but when I am, I can then (again) release the pressure and then (after pulling out any pulled up scrotum) pump to a really firm pressure.

As for getting out of it, if I stayed hard, it would be hard to come out of the narrowest cylinder. But the novelty of pumping has worn off, and I am not aroused such that I stay hard after letting go the vacuum. So, as I deflate it is easy to pull out.

For my largest diameter cylinder, I have to use a silicone "cuff" to prevent pull-up of scrotum or scrotal contents (ouch!). Other than needing to spend less time pulling my scrotum out of it as I am getting pumped up, I do the same as described above.

Hang in there - it can work for you.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 14, 2008, 11:49:02 PM
Toby:

The following is a few tips on some things you can try to keep the extra skin and scrotum from being pulled into the cylinder.

1. I shave off enough hair around the base of my penis to help get a better seal around the inserts. However, you have to keep it shaved on a regular basis so that it won't become itchy when growing out again.

2. Try not get any lubricant on your scrotum when lubing up for the therapy session. If any does get on your scrotum, wipe it off before placing the cylinder over the shaft.

3. I sometimes do a little manual manipulation of the penis before lubing up and using the VED. It gets the blood flowing in and there is less area around the base as it starts to inflate, etc.

4. Hold the cylinder firmly against your body for the first few pumps so that you can get the blood engorged enough to preclude the scrotum being sucked in the cylinder.

5. When doing the cycles, hold the entire assy. as close to your body as possible and do not release all the vacuum pressure. Just let off enough to start the penis deflating and then pump up again all the while maintaining pressure against your body.

A word of caution though, never, but never use too much pressure while pumping. Use only enough to get a good blood flow. Overpumping can and will cause more trauma such as edema of the forskin if not circumcised, redness of the skin that won't go away easily and sometimes could cause the skin to break and bleed. The best rule of thumb is that if you feel pain or discomfort while pumping, you are using too much pressure, so back off in that regard.

Practice a few times to get used to the above changes in your routine. I am not very large either when flaccid and had the same problem you are describing, but using the above tips, I soon learned how to exercise without getting the problem.

Good luck and happy pumping!!!

Old Man
Title: Toby
Post by: Angus on May 15, 2008, 12:46:12 AM

   Don't let hopes be dashed. There is a knack to using a VED and you'll get it. I would bet everyone here that is using one has gone through this.
   Everything Tim and Old Man said is on the money. I have a couple of things that might help too.
   Shaving will help all of this. The large tubes did suck in scrotal skin and still will if I'm not careful. I have pretty good results with large tubes by putting lube only on the insert itself on the VED. I only needed a seal at the base with the large tubes, and lubing the insert kept lube from making its way to the scrotum. I put a little lube inside the tube with a bottle brush so things expand smoothly without skin sticking to the inside of the VED tube if it were dry. You might have to experiment with how much lube to use on the ring if you want to try this with your large tube VED.
   I also found that pointing the VED down a little bit helped "seal out" the scrotal skin by putting slightly more pressure on the bottom half of the VED ring. For me, just pointing it down "slightly", or approximately 10 or 15 degrees helped keep the scrotal skin out where it's supposed to be on the first pumps. If I feel scrotal skin beginning to suck in I angle the VED down to 15 degrees or so again and it will usually stop the intrusion of scrotal skin. Using lighter vacuum until you have a fuller erection will help also.
   Keep at it. We've all gone through this, and you'll get the knack.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Toby on May 15, 2008, 08:40:27 PM
Thank you guys for the input. I will try all of these tips. Right now my testicles are still mildly enlarged and a bit sore I think a bit of rest is in order. Sometimes the only hint of scrotal tissue being in are the enlarged balls a couple of hours after the session. Thanks again. Later dudes.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on May 16, 2008, 11:21:05 AM
Toby,

I can only back up what the other guys have to say... especially the point about avoiding getting lube on the top of the scrotum. I've made that mistake a couple of times recently and it's the only time I've ever felt my balls starting to get sucked in. They ached for quite a while after, even though I stopped a  soon as I felt any pain.
Possibly I'm a bit unusual in that I don't put any lube at all on the end of the VED.. just on the inside of the tube and the shaft of the penis. I find I get a better vacuum that way. Perhaps if all else fails you could try that. The chances of getting lube on the scrotum are reduced that way, although it may take a little practice getting a good seal.

Best of luck.
Title: Re: Question about Injections!/VED usage
Post by: Old Man on May 18, 2008, 02:14:05 PM
jsotheby:

Basically, the VED therapy works for restoring dimensions by sort of forcing the blood flow through the fibrosis and/or plaque areas of the erectile tissue if any exist. Repeated daily exercises on a regular protocol with only minimal amount of vacuum pressure allows the tissue two "remember" that it was stretched and in most cases remains stretched.

Remember one thing about VED therapy though, some guys have the thought or intention of enlarging their penises beyond their normal length before Peyronies Disease. The VED will not enlarge one's penis over their normal size. Daily use of the VED therapy over extended periods of time (there is not quick fix with a VED) generally produces good results. Some cases of Peyronies Disease virtually resist any VED therapy and therefore produce no results. Overall, though, most guys do get good results from the VED.

Getting erections for sex with a VED is usually much better than the injections of tri-mix and/or other
erectile meds. The danger of further damage through use of the needle is much greater than any damage that could result from a restrictor ring on the penis if used with moderation and care. VEDs come with several restrictor rings of varying strengths and one must experiment to find the right tension in order to hold up the erection without causing any pain or discomfort.

Hope the above helps with any question you had about the use of VEDs for sexual intercourse.

Old Man
Title: Re: Question about Injections!/VED usage
Post by: jsotheby on May 18, 2008, 04:57:25 PM
Yes, thanks.

I don't know if I could get used to it for sex or not, but for therapeutic purposes I could.  But what are its advantages vs. the extender Levine recommends?
Title: Re: Question about Injections!/VED usage
Post by: Old Man on May 18, 2008, 05:56:41 PM
jsotheby:

Both the VED and the extender/traction devices have their purposes in Peyronies Disease therapy. They just use a different method for approaching the problems presented by Peyronies Disease. The extender stretches the penis with a steady and long term pull with mechanical devices which can include tension springs, latex loops or slings to hold the head of the penis while wearing the device.

The VED, OTOH, uses vacuum pressure for shorter periods of time to extend the penis through its pull on the penis itself. This allows the vacuum to pull more blood flow into the corporal chambers than with a natural erection. Pumping up the vacuum, holding it for short periods of time, releasing and repeating the cycles provides more and varied amounts of pull on the penis, etc.

As I said earlier, both devices have their place in Peyronies Disease therapy, it is a matter of choice as to which method a person desires. An added feature of the VED is that by using the correct tension restrictor ring, one who has an ED problem can get a very good erection for sex.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Toby on May 21, 2008, 11:58:44 AM
Old Man: I was wondering if you could give me a recommendation on a good medical grade 3 cylinder ved. Perhaps the one you use. Also how and where to purchase it. I am thinking maybe it would be better than mine.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 21, 2008, 03:50:30 PM
Toby:

I am using the Soma Correct manual model that was taken off the market last year. In its place the Somaerect was marketed starting shortly after that. The only difference between the two models is a modified sizing insert and they left out the Peyronies Disease 26 week protocol exercises for Peyronies Disease.

The Somaerect is now the only three cylinder model (as a package deal) marketed by Augusta Medical Systems in Augusta, GA. You can contact them through their Web site at:   www.augustams.com

Look at all their products and you will find the Somaerect listed with pictures, etc. It is a bit pricey, if that is a problem, but you can purchase another model that only has the main outside cylinder in the package, then you can buy the two inner cylinders, all a better price than the whole Somaerect package. So, be sure to explore the options when you either email them or talk to a sales rep in person.

Now, if you are adept with tools, you can make your own 3 cylinder model VED. There are instructions on how several guys have made theirs posted in the VED Child Boards topic. So, explore that option also.

Hope this helps and let me know if I can help further. Others may have some suggestions also.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on May 22, 2008, 11:32:25 AM
The item shown below os from the Fitzz web site and sells for $300. My insurance would not pay for the Augusta system (Long story, not worth repeating) and I was wondering if this is an acceptable substitute. I note that there appears to be an option between manual and bttery powered. I would prefer the manual control. I also do not see a guage for measuring the level of vacuum, and would think that this would be prefferable.

I am now thinking that the home made version is the mpst cost effective way to go.

Thoughts? Recommendations?

New Package Offer! The Peyronie's Vacuum Therapy Treatment System by Augusta Medical features a battery powered Vitality Plus Vacuum Therapy System which has been specifically engineered to provide the best Vacuum Therapy Management for Erectile Dysfunction and implementation of Peyronie's treatment protocols at the lowest possible cost.

The Vitality OTC Vacuum Therapy System is the finest available and is recommended as the most conservative, first-line treatment for Peyronie's Disease as recommended by the Birmingham Urology Associates.

Click here to review the recommended 26 Week Peyronie's Vacuum Therapy Treatment protocol recommended by the Birmingham Urology Associates. Please consult your physician prior to beginning this protocol.

Features include:


Easy to Operate Battery or Manual Pump with Integrated Lever
Easy to use Negative Pressure Device
Two Sizing Adapters
Three Vacuum Tubes - Inside diameters of 2.25", 1.75" and 1.5"
30 Day Trial Period backed by a 100% Money Back Guarantee
Five Comfortable Tension Systems
Tension System Loading Applicator
SomaTherapy-ED® Lubricant
Discreet Carrying Case
Comprehensive Patient Instruction Manual
Registration Card
1 year manufacturer's warranty from date of purchase
30 day Satisfaction Guaranteed Refund Policy*
Meets FDA standards for Over-the-Counter vacuum therapy devices
Access to an automated toll-free telephone system is provided to all patients 24 hours/day (seven days a week)  
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 22, 2008, 08:12:19 PM
seaside2:

It is my understanding that the Augusta Vitality OTC manual or battery model is exactly the same unit as the Somaerect. However, it only comes with the large (C) cylinder and accessories. If you buy that unit you will need to buy the two extra (A & B) cylinders that is furnished with the Somaerect model to complete the three cylinder package. This would allow you to use the 26 week protocol that is posted on the forum under the VED topic in the Child Boards section.

If you would give me a PM with the web site for the Fitz company or just post it here on the forum as it would be of help to any others desiring to purchase a VED.

Thanks, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 22, 2008, 08:42:27 PM
Note to all:

I just ran across a web site that sells an Augusta Vitality OTC three cylinder Peyronies Disease therapy VED for less than $300.00. It includes the entire three cylinder package with ED rings, lubricant and an easy ring applicator. It carries free shipping. As far as I know it does not require an RX like the Somaerect.  Any interested in having the web site link, please let me know.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on May 23, 2008, 11:49:04 AM
http://www.fitzz.com/Peyronies-Vacuum-Therapy-Treatment-System-P4484C160.aspx

I copied the link and pasted it here. Old Man, I assume we are talking about the same thing.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 23, 2008, 04:18:15 PM
seaside2:

Yes, that is the company. They will sell the Vitality OTC manual model for $119.99. The extra cylinders, A & B (small and medium size) can be purchased separately for about $49.00 each making a total of just over $220.00 for the entire package. This price is very much cheaper than if you bought the complete Peyronies Disease package from this company at a price of $299.99. It includes free shipping also.

If one wants to order the above package from Fitzz, just call them and tell the sales rep which unit you want plus the extra cylinders. A friend of mine just purchased the package on line today.

Old Man......
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on May 28, 2008, 09:41:16 AM
 :) Old Man,

Thanks for the $ saving tip. I am ordering today!!!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on May 30, 2008, 07:47:16 AM
Seaside2:

I've talked with Mark at Fitzz, but Angus's post in the child board got me interested in building a VED..I located a manual pump w/gauge at a Science education store ($30) and they also have a 1.75 " plastic beaker that I can cut (bonus find $13)..Right now, it looks like I can be pumping this weekend if all goes to plan..I will post..

I p/md Angus and he advised that pics of his homemade veds are on post #126 of this forum..the pics show the design and look to me like a perfectly doable deal for $50-75..Ingenious approach that the vendors would not like to see us take.. ;D

I'm off to Lowe's today to complete the materials list..Hat's off to Angus..

crank
Title: Child Boards
Post by: bodoo2u on May 30, 2008, 09:06:23 AM
Fellas,

Forgive me for not know the meaning of the term at this stage of the game, but what exactly are the "Child Boards"?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 30, 2008, 10:10:32 AM
boodoo2:

The Child Boards is a topic section shown on the Home Page of the main forum. It has a number of threads which are complications of all the posts that are pertinent to a particular subject, i.e. VED usage, Oral treatments, etc.

Go to the Home Page on the menu and look down in the Section that shows the Forum subjects and you will see the Heading Child Boards.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on May 31, 2008, 06:31:43 AM
old man - you mention in an earlier thread that ved will not work for some ved cases - who are likely to fit into this category and is there a percentage of success of men who use this - would it be say a 50/50..??

also - if my Peyronies Disease is still in its inflammation phase - is using a ved ok or is a ved more beneficial for advanced stages of Peyronies Disease ?

many many thx
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 31, 2008, 01:04:02 PM
Iceman:

OK, what I meant is that there a few cases of Peyronies Disease that is resistant to just about any therapy, VED, or meds taken. I can only guess at a figure, but it could not be more than 5% plus or minus a number or two.

In my case, I did not try the VED for Peyronies Disease until after my prostate surgery which was about 40 years after my first bout with Peyronies Disease. It was kind of by trial and error that it worked for me. Since there were no three model VEDs around in my time, a one cylinder unit was what I used. The three cylinders ones work well and give a much better therapy.

It is not a 50/50 proposition in using VEDs for Peyronies Disease. It is reported in some circles that it helps in about 90 to 95 percent of the Peyronies Disease population. I know of no published studies yet that show any different figures.

So, bottom line, I strongly urge you to decide soon and get busy with a routine of VED therapy. It can be used successfully in the inflammation stages of Peyronies Disease by using caution in that you do not overpump the vacuum. As has been stated many times, moderation in vacuum pressure and caution to prevent further damage is the watchword. If while using a VED, one experiences pain or discomfort of any kind, they are using too much vacuum pressure. So, keep that in mind if you decide on getting one for your Peyronies Disease.

Right now, the best price for a three cylinder VED we have seen is the one that is on sale by the Fitzz site stated elsewhere on the forum. Currently, the price for the Vitaility OTC VED package is $229.99. Also, believe that shipping is free. I think the regular price is either $299.99 or $399.99. Both retail prices have been listed their web site.

If I can be of further help, just let me know.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on May 31, 2008, 06:44:11 PM
thx old man - i appreciate you taking the time to reply to me - one more question: do i do the ved treatment for the 26 weeks and re-evaluate at this stage or do I keep using it indefinitely?



Title: Homebuilt VED..Cheap
Post by: crank on May 31, 2008, 07:39:06 PM
Following Angus's advice, I built prototype #1 as follows..this is for the do-it-yourself crowd..

Manual vacuum pump from Science Education Shop 0-730 mm..

Went to Ace Hardware for these parts..I had PVS primer and cement, so decided to go with PVC..

Adapter .50" pipe thread male to .25" tube to attach to pump..
Bushing 1.50" to .50" female
Adapter1.50 pvc to 1.50 " pipe thread..
24" 1.75 o.d. pvc 1.50" i.d.

Cut the pvc to 7" and cemented to the adapter..sanded to smooth edges..cut some Saran wrap and punched a hole in it for seal..

Pumped up to 100 micron and worked like a charm...the only disadvantage is it is not transparent..when I make the 2" I.D. unit, I will put a plastic port on it for observation...

My costs were $30 local for the pump and $10 for PVC parts..

crank
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 31, 2008, 08:32:09 PM
Iceman:

First, you do the 26 week protocol to what results you get from it. If you are not satisfied with that period of exercises, start over with the 26 course again.

You have to be the judge of what results you get and if you want to continue the second set or not. If you did see some significant results, I would suggest continuing again, etc.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 31, 2008, 08:36:37 PM
Crank:

Sounds like you got the job done! FYI, should you want to obtain clear tubes, check back on Dr. Tim's post where he lists getting clear medical type ones at a very good price.

Anyway, you are well on your way to getting started with VED therapy. Again though, be careful with the pressure. Your penis will be the best judge of how much vacuum you should use. Just remember if you get any pain or discomfort from the vacuum, you are using too much, just back off, etc. VED therapy is not a case where more is better. Gentle daily pumping gives much better results than higher pressure and won't cause damage if used in moderation.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on May 31, 2008, 08:58:15 PM
Hey Old Man..

Thanks for your help and the p/m...I think I'm ok on the pressure..just pulling a nice gentle vacuum, but listened to your guidance on that issue.. ;D

Right now, I'm happy with the deal..and looking forward to a straight unit in 26 weeks.. ;D

You said something that impressed me...look at it as part of your exercise program and that is what I am doing on that...pump and then go to the gym and pump iron..Ha!

crank
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 31, 2008, 10:16:49 PM
Crank:

OK, stay on the daily schedule and good things could happen soon!!!

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Angus on June 01, 2008, 12:52:10 PM
   Good deal Crank. Just remember that for some guys the 26 weeks is a start and not the end... if you don't have all the results you want in 26 weeks be prepared to commit to repeat the 26 weeks. I hope you get fast results. If you want to make another clear one, the site Tim got tubes from is good, and you can get 6 foot lengths (minimum order) of clear acrylic tubing from Tapp Plastics. Use the drop-down menu to see the size choices. They don't give the I.D., just the O.D. and wall thickness, but you can figure the I.D. by taking the O.D. and subtracting the wall thickness times two. (1 3/4 inch O.D. tube, minus 1/8 inch wall thickness x 2 = 1 1/2 I.D. and so on).  I have a feeling you already know this lol so bear with me if this math lecture stuff is not needed  ;D

http://www.tapplastics.com/shop/product.php?pid=141&
Title: Photo of VED prototype # 1
Post by: crank on June 01, 2008, 01:13:24 PM
I'll post for anyone interested..thanks Angus..

The VED is crude but works..Assembly is easy with teflon taped threaded parts and PVC cement..The Ace Hdw part #'s are..

Threaded .50 to .25 tubing...48763
Bushing..1.50"..47541
Adapter...43113
1.75"o.d.x 1.50 i.d. tubing..ask
 
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 01, 2008, 03:41:35 PM
Crank:

Your VED looks great! However, I think that you should consider using smaller cylinders like in the three cylinder VEDs we have been purchasing for Peyronies Disease therapy.

The confined area provides better lengthwise pull for straightening the shaft portion. You can always stretch the girth by using the larger cylinders.

Tim has the sizes he used on a post somewhere back on this thread and I think in the VED section of the Child Boards.

Good luck and as Angus says, if the first 26 weeks does not do the job, repeat the schedule.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on June 02, 2008, 08:09:17 AM
Quote from: Old Man on June 01, 2008, 03:41:35 PM
Crank:

However, I think that you should consider using smaller cylinders like in the three cylinder VEDs we have been purchasing for Peyronies Disease therapy.



Old Man

My VED looks larger,but the I.D. is 1.50" (4.71" circum)...I could make one 1.25" (3.92" circum)...Do you think I should experiment with that ??
I wouldn't want to get that thing hung up in there...

I have completed 4 days on this one and it seems to work well...I was planning to make a 2.00" I.D. prototype this week..

One interesting note: the VED erection is much more normal looking than a natural...hardly bends at all..I am getting a good amount of blood and in there and good response, so I don't know what is causing that...I have never had any injury or trauma to the penis and this bend just developed...I see my Dr. later today and will see if he can feel any plaque or fibrous tissue in there on the topside..

Could I get your experienced opinions on this since I'm a Peyronies Disease newbie ??

Thanks,

crank
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 02, 2008, 10:31:19 AM
Crank:

OK, seems like you are getting some good early results with your VED. Yes, the VED can and will give you a very good erection based on the amount of plaque or nodules you have in the corpora chambers. If you do not have very much of either, the VED works faster and better since it does not have to overcome those items.

The I.D. of the smallest cylinder of the three cylinder model VEDs is 1.25 inches. If the cost is as low as you say, suggest you make one that size and try it. The largest of the three cylinders (C on the Somaerect unit) is 2.0 inches I.D. You will need one of those after you complete the early steps of the 26 week protocol.

If you use all three cylinders according to the 26 week protocol you should see the best results. VED therapy is mostly trial and error for the most part. Each and every case of Peyronies Disease is distinctly different from any other, so they have to be treated as separate cases, etc. The only drawback you will encounter with making the three separate cylinders like you are doing is that you have to use both hands to handle the devices. The mated units provide one hand usage, but that should not be a problem for most.

Old Man

Title: To VED or not to VED. That is the question?
Post by: newguy on June 02, 2008, 10:13:46 PM
George's recent experience demonstrates just how many variables and variations can be at play with peyronie's. VED useage is these circumstances was touched on in the other thread, but there is no real concensus on this as far as I know:

If someone is suffering from peyronie's but does not yet have a curve (or has a curve occasionally as a result of some kind of intermittent inflammatory response) should they use the VED? There is a case to say that pre-empting curvature could be a good idea and that use of the VED could promote good penile health. Another school of thought could suggest that VED use during an active inflammatory phase, could potentially exacerbate the situation. Which one of these factors do you think outweighs the other?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on June 02, 2008, 11:51:29 PM
newguy - should i use a ved if i am in the inflammation phase - i seen to be getting allot of conflicting answers and do not want to make the problem worse
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 03, 2008, 12:01:32 AM
Iceman & Newguy:

There are conflicting opinions about VED usage during the inflammation stage of Peyronies Disease. Some say go for it, others say do not do it all.  From my experience with VED usage and that of many others, using a VED during the early stages of Peyronies Disease usually wards off any further damage. I say usually, but there are some cases that just resist any and all attempts at treatment/therapy.

If one uses the VED in the early inflammation stage of Peyronies Disease, by all means use very low vacuum pressure. Again, I say if any pain or discomfort to the penis is felt, cease the vacuum therapy and try to determine why it occurred. Extreme caution should be exercised at all times while using a VED.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on June 03, 2008, 12:05:05 AM
old man - what do you mean by further damage??
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 03, 2008, 11:07:50 AM
Iceman:

OK, good question. The best way to describe what I meant is to say it this way:  1. If you overpump the pressure, edema of the foreskin,  skin on the shaft, or to the head may occur. 2. Stretching the plaque/nodules with too much pressure too fast may cause them to "grow" faster or develop more, etc. 3. You could aggravate your condition to a point that it causes pain, maybe even more inflammation.

So, bottom line, using the VED during the inflammation stage especially must be done with moderation and with less pressure. All you want to do at this point is to keep good blood flow to all parts of your penis. As men get older and have less and less night time erections as well as normal sexual erections, their penises tend to shrink up due to the inactivity (been there and done that). Keeping a good blood flow into all portions of the corpora will definitely help with keeping your penis healthy from that standpoint.

Just use a VED with common sense and as low vacuum pressure as possible until you are over the inflammation stage is my best recommendation to all VED users. Afterwards, one can increase the pressure until you reach a "comfort zone" for pumping, but never overpumping. IMHO Overpumping vacuum pressure is why some uros/physicians do not prescribe VEDs for Peyronies Disease.

Old Man

Correction made to Number 2 above from "may not" to "may''
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on June 03, 2008, 12:40:03 PM
Iceman:

I just started VED with my homemade unit..day 5...Old Man has been advising me and one thing he told me is that my penis would establish the comfort level of negative pressure...I am finding that to be true...I am taking my time and going slow on it after the valuable warnings I got on here about overpumping..My VED is not clear plastic, so I go by the way it feels..I think that may be a good thing because I can't see what's going on, but I can feel it...I'm using a manual pump and I also think that's good because it gives me a lot of control on the pressure..

This is a newbie observation on startup of the process... ;D

crank
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on June 03, 2008, 07:38:38 PM
Hi Old Man...

I went ahead and made the 1.25"i.d. unit and was surprised that it worked pretty well...it's a bit snug and when I removed it, I had to tug a bit, but the reaction was good...I think I will continue with the small cylinder for a couple of weeks...

My cylinders will be 1.25", 1.50", and 2.00 ", i.d.....I think this will work... ;D

Thanks for your help..

crank

I read your post about shrinkage with age...my gymbuddies (70-79) complain about it all the time...CC calls the men's locker room "short city"... ;D



Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 03, 2008, 09:31:35 PM
Crank:

Tell them to start using a VED and their shrinkage will go away. Charge them a nominal fee for your advice.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on June 04, 2008, 07:38:28 AM
Old Man..

Yeah, If my own repair work shows progress, I will become an advocate for the VED therapy..I was interested in Chris Spivey's statement that VED therapy should be used ,therapeutically, by all men for penis health even if they don't have Peyronie's...I think he could be right about that..the aging process takes a toll, but you can still fight back, and you feel better if you do.. ;D

Low testosterone is a problem too..My Dr. (gerontologist) checks all his old dude patients..I have been getting injections for 4 years..as needed to keep my level above 300ng/dl of blood..More of problem for me with 1 testicle..

crank
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on June 04, 2008, 10:52:17 AM
By the way, I found a coupon for fitzz that saved me 10%, $23.  :) Coupon code TEAM.
Title: Questions re: the April 23,2008 Revised protocol
Post by: crank on June 05, 2008, 07:50:32 AM
Hi Old Man..

The revised schedule posted in the child's board seems to alternate the 3 cylinders on alternate days for the first 2 weeks..I can still use my A cylinder as noted by lubing and letting the pump pull the penis into it...So, the way I read the schedule, I would alternate cylinders A,B,C on a 3 day cycle for 2 weeks..Am I reading this correctly?

Many thanks, ;D

crank   
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 05, 2008, 10:01:07 AM
Crank:

Nope, you do not alternate between the cylinders A, B, and C for the first two weeks. You use all three at the same time for each week's therapy schedule. (DO NOT USE ONLY ONE CYLINDER AT A TIME DURING THIS PERIOD.)

Also, as you go down the weekly schedule, use the exact cylinder(s) indicated for each week. The schedule lists the exact cylinder(s) to be used for each weekly period. Angus and I may revise the schedule to clearly state which cylinder(s) are to be used during each period. The schedule as shown on the Spivey web site is even more vague so I reworked it and Angus added it to the VED topic in the Child Boards.

If you want to, you can shoot me a PM with any questions you have about using the VED. I usually try include all the information I can on the main forum so that others can get the benefit of answers to questions about VED usage.

Good luck and happy pumping!!!! Just use low pressure, but do the exercises on a daily basis for best results.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on June 05, 2008, 11:33:43 AM
Old Man..

I think we're saying the same thing in a different way, but I want to clarify my current schedule to make sure it's right, so here's what I'm doing..

Monday - A
Tuesday-B
Wednesday- C
Thursday.A
Friday-B
Sat.-C
Sun -A
and so on, for 2 weeks...is this correct ?

Thanks,

crank
Title: 26 week protocol schedule clarity
Post by: Angus on June 05, 2008, 01:40:42 PM

   Old Man lets get together and come up with a revision for the wording. What we've got to keep in mind is that for those of us that have made our own VED's consisting of separate tubes that don't nest together but are used separately, the cylinder A, B and C nomenclature can be confusing at best. I have some ideas and we'll discuss it....   Angus
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on June 05, 2008, 02:08:52 PM
Hi Angus..

I should have mentioned that my A cylinder is 1.25" i.d., My B cylinder is 1.50" i.d., and my C cylinder is 2.00" i.d...I do use these separately..on the schedule I mentioned in my previous post..The nested cylinders must be different..

I think I'm doing it correctly by alternating on consecutive days, but not yet sure..

Any clarification would by helpful..

Thanks,

crank
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 05, 2008, 03:26:29 PM
Crank:

I forgot that you were using three separate cylinders instead of the nested type from the purchased VEDs. You are right that A=small, B=medium and C=large.

You are incorrect about using three different sizes on consecutive days as you mentioned. Since you are using three separate cylinders that do not nest together your schedule will be different than the nested type VEDs.

Here is what you do: Where the schedule shows the A cylinder as the first number in the week's schedule you would use the A small cylinder every day for the entire week(s). Then where B cylinder is the first number in the week's schedule you would use the B medium cylinder every day for the entire week. And, so on down the weekly schedule.

I know it sounds confusing, but you do use the same cylinder whatever size is shown for each weekly schedule every day of that week. Again, you do not alternate in the sizes by the day, just by the week shown.

Let me know if this clears up your question.

Angus:

Shoot me a PM with your ideas or email them to me (you have my email address). We can put some wording together to change the modified Spivey schedule or work up an entire new schedule for those using three separate "home made" VEDs as they do not nest together like the Soma unit does.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on June 05, 2008, 04:05:46 PM
Hey Old Man..

Now I've got it...Many thanks for posting the clarification..I was doing it wrong..Actually the first cylinder mentioned in the new protocol puts me back to the Spivey protocol when I compare them..1 cylinder per week ..

The new revised protocol could be confusing..at one time I was thinking A-B-C for the first 2 weeks must mean 3 sessions per day of 10 minutes..but I don't know how the nested VEDs work..

As far as my ideas to assist you and Angus, I don't have any..I barely know what I'm doing as a newbie..With you guy's help, I will get it figured right...You've been a great help to this point..both you and Angus, and I very much appreciate it.. ;D

Sorry to be such a bonehead with all the questions..

Regards,

crank
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 05, 2008, 05:22:59 PM
crank:

Yep, you have it now. Good Luck!!!!

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: terryd on June 06, 2008, 09:59:17 AM
Hi im new to this' been reading this forum for a wail best iv found.Well here goes"Iv had Peyronies Disease 6 years never had pain or any bumps in my stick to this day just the upwards bend 45 degree and shorting.Made ved and found 26 week program on my 2nd week.Is this the program i should be on.  Thank you
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 06, 2008, 03:15:19 PM
terryd:

Sounds like you are on the right track with the VED therapy. The 26 week course if a very good one. However, we need; to know more about the VED you made to help with any questions you may have.

The 26 week course is primarily designed for a VED that has three cylinders. The schedule lists those cylinders to be used during any particular week of the course. Since you apparently are using only one cylinder you will need to use a modified version of the schedule. You can do exercises with one cylinder, but the three cylinder units are much better.

Several guys on the form have made their own and have made three different size cylinders based on the size of the Somaerect cylinder sizes. You might want to consider making three cylinders on that pattern also.

Let us know if there is anything that we can help you with on the VED regimen.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: terryd on June 06, 2008, 04:49:12 PM
I made 3 cylinder.Started with 1.5 1.75 2.25 then i read on here start with 1.25 1.75 2.00 so i stared over with 1.25  very very tit can get in with help of pump.Any addvise is appr.Love to have old love life back.Thank you old man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on June 06, 2008, 07:28:05 PM
Quote from: terryd on June 06, 2008, 04:49:12 PM
I made 3 cylinder.Started with 1.5 1.75 2.25 then i read on here start with 1.25 1.75 2.00 so i stared over with 1.25  very very tit can get in with help of pump.Any addvise is appr.Love to have old love life back.Thank you old man

Hey terryd...

You and I are at the same point..week 2 on the small cylinder...sounds like you are a handy guy...would you mind posting up how you built your cylinders ?? materials, etc..? I'm thinking you are ahead of me on building these things... ;D

Thanks man,

crank
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 06, 2008, 08:04:54 PM
terryd:

The Somaerect cylinders measure as follows: A=small, slightly under 1.5 inches, B=medium 1.75 inches, and C=large 2.00 inches.

The 1.25 was incorrect on my part simply quoting from memory (which seems to fail me lately!!! <><> Must be old age!!)

Anyway, if you use the 1.25 cylinder, be extremely careful not to cause any irritation of your penile skin, etc. As I have said many times on the forum, be extremely careful and not overpump the vacuum.

Yes, as you said, a slight pull with vacuum will pull the penis shaft into the cylinder, just go slow!

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: terryd on June 07, 2008, 07:01:29 PM
Well i had every thing laying around the shop.My small cylinder is made out of an extintion from the drain off off bath room drain which is 1.5/16 id kichen drain is bigger"glued cap on got plastic thread nipel glued it on got brake bleeder pump with gage other cylinders used different size pvc with end caps with nipels glued to the end.Every thing new. My only money was a new pump $14.00.Every thing works fine.You cant see but you can fill Watts going on in side the tube.I dont pump over 3 or 4 hg. ???
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 07, 2008, 09:10:06 PM
terryd:

Sounds great. If you should decide that you want to get a clear tube, there are available at good prices in some home improvement centers. It may be some of the semi flexible type, but they will work equally well if the size is right.

The thing to remember about pumping the vacuum pressure is not what the gauge shows, but what the pressure feels like to your penis. If you sense any pain or discomfort, relax the pressure and reduce the amount you pump. Some pumps do have the capability of going to very high pressures.

So, bottom line, pump slowly and with less pressure, at least until your "tool" gets used to the higher pressures. But, keep in mind that Peyronies Disease probably came on slowly and it will go away the same way. So, be patient and maintain a daily schedule of exercises.

Good luck to you, and happy pumping!!!!

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on June 08, 2008, 08:25:35 AM
Hey terryd...

Clever approach on your VED construction...One question..A brake system bleeder pump..would never have thought  of that..Where did you purchase that pump ??O'Riely's or one of the auto parts houses ?? Would like to get me one..and $14 seems like a good buy..I paid $30 at a Science Education store..

Thanks for the info.. ;D

crank
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: terryd on June 08, 2008, 01:24:24 PM
old man you are right  my pump goes to 30 gu 3or4 is comfortable 5 or more not so comfortable.  Crank got pump at harbor freight.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on June 08, 2008, 01:36:17 PM
Quote from: terryd on June 08, 2008, 01:24:24 PM
  Crank got pump at harbor freight.

Thanks terryd...I'm on my way to get me one.. ;D

crank
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on June 08, 2008, 07:16:34 PM
can we start a success stories area for VED??
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on June 09, 2008, 12:08:18 AM
I passed on the brake bleeding pumps because they looked a bit "off" to me - hard to explain - but not good enough.

Also, I wanted a good coupling connection and they had a sort of funky cone shaped end.

I think that having a translucent tube is important, for it allows you to see how long into the tube you are (to measure progress) and to judge if the color is off. The visual feedback seems important to me - or at least I use the visual feedback. I started with one purchased good quality cylinder and now have four.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: terryd on June 09, 2008, 10:43:12 AM
Tim bleeder pump is pour mans VED its got release triger and works well all connection work fine.Clear tubs would be good but i just havent found any free ones yeat but still looking. :o
Title: Poor man's homemade clear cylinders
Post by: crank on June 09, 2008, 01:47:49 PM
Hey terryd..

I had to get a raincheck on my pump at HF..sold out..must be the VED guys buying them up..

Did make a 1.50" i.d. cylinder though..found a local source for acrylic tubing..they cut me a 8" piece for $!0.06 and the Weldon #16 glue costs $3.15..It welds acrylic tubing to PVC..Ace pipe cap 1.50" $1.49 and 1.25" barb each end tubing connector is $1.79..I drilled a 5/16" hole in the cap and glued the tubing connector..I can get the tubing in any size I need ...

Worked great...Cost $17.52 ...I'm not exactly poor, but I am exactly CHEAP... ;D

crank
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 09, 2008, 02:21:28 PM
Crank:

Sounds like you are good as a Mr. Fixit. It shows what a person can do if they set mind to going something.

I am sure that your "made" VED will work just as well as the bought models, and with a great savings. Unfortunately, some of the guys are not good with tools and won't be able to make their own units though.

Thanks for posting your latest creation. If you would, assemble all the items you used into a post and let others know what can be done in making their own VED. Some guys have done so in the past and it helped a lot of men who needed the use of a VED. Specify what materials you used, where you bought them and how you assembled them into your finished products.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on June 10, 2008, 08:29:11 AM
Hi Old Man..

Regarding your suggestion to post up the technique for making VED cylinders..I posted the PVC technique on post #1385 using parts from Ace Hdw..the cost of those is about $6.00 each..they are not transparent, but will get one started..

The clear acrylic cylinder technique is on post #1420 and is easy to make at aout $18.00 including special glue..Acrylic tubing should be easy to locate in any larger city..and caps and connectors may be purchased at Ace Hdw..

I think anybody should be able to make these things, and they should work as well as the puchased VEDs..

I'm set,for now, and appreciate all your help.. ;D...Angus too..his suggestions were very helpful..

crank
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: terryd on June 10, 2008, 10:39:44 AM
Crank   bigest clear tubing i have found is 1.1/8 must be looking in wrong place.Were did you find yours?What type of place was it? By the way the pump i got was #38053-5vga norm price $33 i got on sale a littel over $14  terryd
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on June 10, 2008, 12:18:42 PM
Hey terryd..

I looked in Plastics in the yellow pages and found ad that said plastic tubing...they manufacture..I got a hit on the first company I called..all sizes in acrylic..I'm gonna make a 1.75" i.d. within 2 weeks...it will be my medium cylinder..they charged me $6.00 to make the cut of 8" from a 6 foot length..I didn't want it all...I don't have a chop saw..I think the 6' lengths are about $24.00..
somebody on here that is enterprising could chop 9 lengths and sell the rest for $10 each..not me..I'm too busy in retirement..Ha!  ;D

Hope you can find some..I think my raincheck is for that same pump..it was on sale for $18.99 and sold out...I don't like the pressure release on my pump..it's kindof slow..so, I'll get me one of those..thanks for the lead..

crank
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 10, 2008, 01:01:04 PM
Crank and Terryd:

Word of caution for you two in making your own VEDs. You do need a quick release for the vacuum pressure on your pumps. Slow release will not allow you to do some of the advanced exercises that are possible with the three cylinders you are making.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on June 11, 2008, 08:35:23 PM
old man - just got my new VED from the states deliversed - any final advice before I use it tonight for the first time and whats the best regime you recommend??

cheers
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 11, 2008, 10:24:06 PM
Iceman:

First of all, do not try to use it right away for sex. You should practice using it for a day or two before starting out on a regular scheduled basis. Follow the instructions that came with it, if any, and above all do not pump too much pressure at any time.

Use extreme caution and follow the 26 week protocol posted in the Child Boards section that appears on the home page. You should have read all those posts by now and know some of the pitfalls others have run into, especially those written by me and Angus.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on June 11, 2008, 11:25:53 PM
thx old man - will keep you posted
btw - pain has really decreased lately - i honestly feel its the ALC and Arginine and Aloe Vera combination
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on June 12, 2008, 07:43:12 AM
Hey Sweeper..

I know how you feel...Getting on here takes the mystery out of Peyronies Disease..the advisors will give you some good ideas on taking some action, and action is better than worrying about it and getting all depressed..

When mine turned North, I broke out in shingles from the stress..I found the Society and spent 5 hours reading the child's board..Now I do the VED therapy,daily, and hope it helps in the future..

Good luck to you, ;D

crank
Title: Revised 26 Week VED Protocols posted in the Child Boards
Post by: Angus on June 12, 2008, 03:49:35 PM

    The 26 Week Protocol for VED therapy for Peyronies disease has been revised. Two separate protocol applications have been created. The actual week-to-week therapy and tube size is the same for both; only the grammar is different in each instance to clarify instructions for each type of VED.
    PROTOCOL FOR 3 SEPARATE VED'S 26 WEEK is easier to understand for those using three separate VED's... small, medium and large. This would apply to purchased units or home made VED's.
    PROTOCOL FOR 3 CYLINDER MEDICAL VED'S, 26 WEEK is easier to understand for those using purchased MEDICAL VED's, specifically those designed with three cylinders of different sizes that are inserted into one another to change the inside diameter.
   
    Each Protocol is in it's own TOPIC in the Child Boards. The Child Boards link is found directly below Peyronies Disease Discussion Forum. Here is a direct link:

    https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/board,18.0.html


    Having two different applications of the 26 week therapy, each specific to TYPE of VED being used, should make the therapy easier to understand. BOTH of the therapies in the Child Boards are exactly the same; each one, however, has grammar specific to the type of VED being used. The therapies are new topics at the top of the Child Boards page and will eliminate the need to go to the Highlights of VED thread to scroll down and try to find them. The protocol entry in the Child Boards VED topic has been deleted to avoid confusion.
    Thanks to Old Man for advice and encouragement on this project. Since day one he has been my first line of defense concerning VED's and Peyronies Disease. We hope these entries will make the protocols easier to find and answer lots of questions about VED therapy.
    And thank all of you for your input on your experiences with VED use. This board is input driven so keep posting your results, thoughts and questions.
    As always, if you have any questions about the Protocol, just ask!

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on June 12, 2008, 07:37:50 PM
oldman:

tried the VED last night for the first time and I have a couple of questions:

1) Im following your 26week program and using the small cylinder first - bur as it automatically pumps my penis doesnt go to full erection - it gets sort of squashed on the sides and pulls forward - is this Ok
2) if it doesnt get erect how long should I keep the vacuum pumping?
3) i can t seem to get a secure air lock vacuum - any  suggestions??
4) should I do this for 10 min in the morning and 10 min at night??

Cheers
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 12, 2008, 11:37:22 PM
Iceman:

OK, sounds like that you have a three cylinder VED where they nest together, etc. Check out the new revised protocol on the Child Boards. Angus has posted two separate protocols one for those using three separate cylinder units and one for those using the combined or nested three cylinder units. So follow whichever protocol matches your VED model/style.

Anyway, to answer your questions:
1. The small cylinder is designed small on purpose to keep the penis sort of squashed into it so that it is pulled forward in the cylinder to keep it very straight and tight to help with curves and/or plaque. This is OK as long as you do not overpump the vacuum to cause pain or discomfort (mild discomfort if OK if you don't go overboard with it.)

2. You don't necessarily want to get an erection as this could preclude you getting enough pressure to pull your penis out as much as possible in the small cylinder. You want to get as much forward pull in the small cylinder as possible. You should stop pumping when you feel that you are beginning to feel uncomfortable, so be careful with the pressure while pumping. 10 minutes is what the protocol calls for, but you can vary this time according to what your personal schedule will allow but do not exceed 20 minutes or so for one session per day. (20 minutes is the max time that I found to be the best overall.) See comments in 4 below.

3. Getting a good tight seal is a problem for some guys. You need to use enough of water soluble lubricant to allow for a slick surface so that the penis slides easily into and out of the cylinder. This also helps with the seal. You need to do the trial and error system of getting a good seal. It takes a little practice so be patient and experiment with different approaches as you practice with it. I found that using lube around the sizing insert and on the end of the cylinder where it fits against the body works best. Lubricate your penis and inside the cylinder well too. You might need to shave off enough of the pubic hair around the base of your penis to preclude the hair from interfering with the seal. (If you do this, you will need to do this on a regular basis to obtain the best seal. I have done this since starting to use the VED 13 years ago.)

4. Only one session per day is usually enough for therapy, however, you can do two sessions per day if you do not over extend the time for each. If you use two sessions a day, limit the time to about 10 minutes in the a.m. and 10 in the p.m. One session per day should be determined on your personal feeling so that you do not cause any irritation or trauma to your penis. Overpumping the pressure and holding the high pressure too long before releasing it can and will cause more trauma, so again, use good judgment in the time of holding the pressure for each cycle of the protocol and the amount of vacuum.

Hope the above helps clear up things for you. If you need anything else, just let me know. Best to you and happy pumping!!!

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on June 13, 2008, 02:21:05 AM
thx oldman for your time and effort in these responses - very much appreciated..
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on June 13, 2008, 11:09:39 AM
Hi angus..

Thank you and Old Man for working up the new protocols for VED therapy...I think the new instructions are very clear and easy to understand.. ;D

Have a good weekend..

crank
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 13, 2008, 02:19:52 PM
crank:

No problem, that is what we do, try out best to help others all we can. Just keep up the therapy and something good will happen for you soon.

Just pass along your experience with the VED to others by posting your progress or lack thereof on this forum.

Regards to you, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on June 16, 2008, 12:13:34 AM
old man - Ive just checked a website : http://www.peyroniesassociation.org and on the site the doctors' are not too keen on the usage of VED - hpw come on this site there seems to be a difference of opinion or at least a difference in attitude about the usage of VED?

Cheers
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on June 16, 2008, 09:55:44 AM
I guess I am better at making a few $ than I am at making things out of plastic.  ???

In any case, I have the one from Fitzz and am in week 2, following the protocol meticuluosly. No noticible differences and none expected this early. The hardest part is making time and cleaning up. I think these will become easier with time.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 16, 2008, 10:47:52 AM
Iceman:

That site has been around for quite a while now and they do have some real good information relative Peyronies Disease and its effects. The site has a link that takes you to a section where doctors post answers to questions posed by members. These doctors seem to take the real conservative approach to VED usage for some reason.

I was a member of that organization for a while and took some heavy flak about my supporting VED usage. So, after a while, I just got fed up the negative position they all seemed to take about VED usage and "left the building" so to speak.

After Hawk formed this forum, I joined it and have never looked back on the other forums that I have used in the past. The guys on this forum are all dedicated to helping each other and not trying to tear down anything that a member finds that works for him. I am not saying that forum is no good, just not my cup of tea when it comes to how they approach the treatment of Peyronies Disease.

The above is just my humble opinion and not necessarily that of others on this forum. Hope you can keep on a good schedule of treatment for your Peyronies Disease and have good success.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 16, 2008, 10:49:55 AM
seaside2:

Good luck to you in getting help with your new VED. Yes, finding the time to keep on a regular schedule with your exercises seems to a problem with a lot of guys. However, you owe it yourself to do your best in keeping a daily schedule even if you have cut the time short, just do schedule!!!

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on June 16, 2008, 01:24:03 PM
Iceman, others

My GP, uro, etc were/are essentially worthless when it comes to Peyronies Disease. This forum is, to my knowledge and countless hours of search, the only one that is practical, experienced, offers real world help and the people on here really do care about each other. Sure, not everything is a help to everyone, but there is, IMHO, not a better place to seek help and support. Weall open up and put our 2 cents in, don't hurt or get hurt.

Besides, for a cheapskate like me, the cost cant't be beat ;D
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Johnny on June 16, 2008, 03:03:59 PM
I posted here last summer. I was diagnosed with Peyronies Disease in July of 2007 at age 33.

The verapamil injections were comfortable to say the least but I would like to report that the plaque in the area that the doc did the injections is gone completely.

More plaque formed running along the top in a line in November and this time shortened my length by 2.5 inches with an upward bend. Yikes.

Recently I started reading the posts again and decided to get the VED the Old Man was talking about and start the 26 week regimen.

I wasn't going to post but I feel have to...I have already gained back .75"...in two weeks. I know that I'm probably not the norm here, but either is my age at 34.

I'll continue using this for the rest of the 24 weeks.

Thanks for your help, everyone, and keep up the good word.

Johnny
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 16, 2008, 08:21:26 PM
Johnny:

Great news that you have gained back some length in such a short time. Just wish that others could realize that the VED can and will help with Peyronies Disease and restoring one's penis to a better state of health. Even if it's use did not get rid of the nodules/plaque, but did help with restoring length and girth that would be a plus.

Keep up the good work and by all means keep the forum posted on your results. There are many of us who would welcome your posts with any comments good or bad. This way we can keep up how the VED is helping others, etc.

Thanks for you comments.

Old Man
Title: Johnny...
Post by: Angus on June 17, 2008, 02:15:26 AM

    Thanks for your informative post. Results posts, good or bad, give us what we need to move forward, armed with information like yours. Keep posting as you move through VED therapy and let us know how it goes. I am happy for you that you're responding to vacuum therapy so quickly.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 17, 2008, 10:23:00 AM
Angus and Johnny:

Gotta be your young age!!! Man, I just wish that there had been someone to tell me about VEDs in the early stages of my Peyronies Disease at 24 years old. I am sure that there would have been a better recovery for me than all the wasted treatments/therapies that were thrown at me way back then.

Good luck to you Johnny, keep up the schedule and keep us up to date on your progress, good or bad as Angus says.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Johnny on June 17, 2008, 01:04:42 PM
Will do.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: terryd on June 17, 2008, 02:57:22 PM
Im not sure age has anything to do with it im 56 had Peyronies Disease for 6 years on 4th week on ved  iv gained back a lot of length and girth and went from 45 to30-35 degree upword bend.Very happy with resalts so far thanks to old man an every body that made this forum possible. Thanks guys
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on June 17, 2008, 07:03:15 PM
terryd..

That's good news man...sounds like you may get the stick straightened out.. ;D

crank

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on June 19, 2008, 05:49:33 PM
hi guys - been on the VED 1 week now - no noticable change - will keep you posted.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 19, 2008, 05:55:21 PM
Iceman:

Just hang in there, one week is not enough to notice much difference. You should however, but this time be getting a lot fuller penis when it is flaccid. Most guys notice this fullness before any other results.

Patience is the watchword for Peyronies Disease therapy with the VED. There is no "overnight" fix for Peyronies Disease nor ED. One has to just keep up the schedule and keep a daily therapy session. Follow the 26 week regimen to the letter before giving up.

Take care and keep the forum posted on your progress, either good or bad. We need to know so that others can benefit from your experience(s).

Old Man
Title: What are my chances of restoring length?
Post by: jsotheby on June 21, 2008, 12:01:28 AM
I have been told repeatedly that I do not have Peyronies Disease, but I suffered some kind of injury that has left me totally impotent and with about 1.25 inches of lost length, if not more.  I have resigned myself to the fact that current therapies are not going to restore potency so will have to wait or use injections or ved.

But I am worried that b/c my fibrosis might be diffuse, it is even unlikely I can restore lost length by using a traction device or ved.  Can anyone shed any light.  Even 1 cm would be a huge help as I went from above average to below and maybe far below not sure.  I am concerned that it is gone forever.

Any input would be greatly appreciated on whether diffuse fibrosis loss of length can even be remedied.  It would make sense that localized plaque could, but maybe not diffuse if there is widespread loss of elastic fibres or whatever.

Thanks.
Title: Re: What are my chances of restoring length?
Post by: Old Man on June 21, 2008, 08:00:59 AM
josethby:

Listen to the doctors of course, but do not accept the fact that nothing can be done. There is always some method that could help with your situation. you just to have to find it.

In my case, I had the injections for Peyronies Disease which gave me more symptoms. Prostate surgery gave me urinary incontinence, total impotence due to none nerve sparing surgery (gland too large to save the nerves - weighed about 68 grams) and complications other complications after surgery. My uro and I tried many and various pill, injections and just about all the knows "treatments" to help with my problems. Lost a lot of length too.

Finally, we tried using the VED for erectile dysfunction. My history with it has been posted elsewhere on this forum, so won't repeat it here. But, I will say that the VED exercises have been the only thing that gave me any relief from this horrible mess. So, what I am trying to say is, that you need to at least try the VED. The three cylinder manual model is available from the Fitzz company for a much less price than the same unit if you purchased it from the producer. Go to the Fitzz site and check out the Augusta Vitality OTC manual model price (does not require a prescription so you don't need to ask a doc for one). If you like what you see, then by all means you should try using it for an extended time, you might be surprised at your results.

Good luck to you and keep the faith, something good can and will happen for you!!!

Old Man
Title: VED Newbie progress report
Post by: crank on June 21, 2008, 01:07:37 PM
The first observable effect in week 3 is faster erection when using the VED..This is significant in my view..The cardio vascular system responds well to training of any kind in healthy individuals..achieving blood flow quicker,IMO,is a training effect..irrespective of the improvement or lack of improvement in the Peyronies Disease..The body gets the message that blood flow is the desired outcome..and responds..

This makes sense to me...a sedentary person will show some training progress in CV fitness in about 3 weeks...and get in top shape in about 26-52 weeks,depending on intensity of training..So, CV penis-fitness training should be possible too..I am doing a morning and evening session with the VED..

Nutrition and fitness training are my hobby (33 years)

crank
Title: Re: What are my chances of restoring length?
Post by: jsotheby on June 21, 2008, 01:59:01 PM
Thanks for the encouragement.  I know I posted before on this subject.  My fear with the ved is overpumping?  I have read reports of some who have experienced the exact same symptoms I have from overpumpbing--  shrinkage, decreased sensation, severe ed, non-detectable fibrosis or some kind of damage to muscle.

I can see how it would be useful if the plaque was localized, but fearful it might not be good in every case for every pathology?

Also, what I don't understand, and this might be a stupid and simplistic question b/c I have no experience with ved, but what is the difference b/w getting an erection that way and pumping the blood in through manual stimulation several times a day?  Isn't it the same thing?
Title: Re: What are my chances of restoring length?
Post by: jackp on June 21, 2008, 02:25:57 PM
jsotheby
I relate to where you are. I also lost 1.25 inches from Peronies. That was 1995 and Dr. said nothing I could do.
After becoming totally impotent about 3 years ago and trying shots for ED caused the Corporal Fibrosis.
Implant surgery failed October last year because of corporal fibrosis. That is when I found this site. I had a prescription VED for about a year and hardly used it because I caused an abrasion from over pumping that took some time to heal.
I have been using the VED routine from Old Man since last October and have gained back almost 1/2 inch of size lost. I have not had any trouble with abrasions now that I know how to properly use it.
I hope this helps.
Jackp
Title: Re: What are my chances of restoring length?
Post by: jsotheby on June 21, 2008, 04:15:40 PM
Thanks alot.  I'm really nervous about this b/c I fear my tissues might be too messed up to gain any length.  No fibrosis is detectable, that's the thing that makes me thing that maybe it's widespread and there is a loss of fibers or something that will prevent re-growth.  Did you have corporal fibrosis too?
Title: Re: What are my chances of restoring length?
Post by: jsotheby on June 21, 2008, 04:16:33 PM
Sorry, you said you had corporal fibrosis too.  Stupid question.

So basically it can restore length even if your tissues are pretty badly damaged?
Title: Re: What are my chances of restoring length?
Post by: George999 on June 21, 2008, 04:29:46 PM
Remember, it is NATURAL for the body to heal.  Fibrosis is an UNNATURAL response.  There is ALWAYS the possibility for healing to occur.  - George
Title: Re: What are my chances of restoring length?
Post by: Tim468 on June 22, 2008, 09:16:08 AM
There is a report in the medical literature of a man developing penile fibrosis from using the VED. This is misinterpreted as "it's dangerous" by some urologists. However, this man, intent on penile enlargement, felt that is some was good, more would be better. He used ENORMOUS vacuum pressures, on the order of ten fold greater than what we have suggested here.

The use of the VED at physiologic pressures (by physiologic, I mean pressures that are not vastly greater than what a body can generate itself - i.e. the peak blood pressure might be 200/120 in a hypertensive - we generally do not apply a vacuum greater than minus 200 mm of mercury)(and we release periodically to refresh blood in the chambers).

It has helped more than it has not helped here - something no other recommended treatment here can say, To my knowledge, no one here has reported it causing any harm.

Tim
Title: Re: What are my chances of restoring length?
Post by: Old Man on June 22, 2008, 09:36:31 AM
Note to all:

I echo Tim's post below. There is no natural way that one's penis can stand more pressure than the body itself will produce. In addition, using the VED, as far as I know, cannot produce any additional dimensions over and above what you brought the table by nature. Some guys are endowed with a large penis and other with a small one. You just have to accept that fact and move on with life. I have had women tell me that they would rather die reaching up for it than from backing away. There is a lot of truth in that statement.

So, what I am saying, when using the VED for Peyronies Disease, ED or any other therapy, PLEASE, BUT PLEASE, listen to what is being told on this forum about using too much pressure. And in addition, holding that pressure for too long a period. Pumping up, holding briefly, then releasing the pressure and repeating the cycle will do more toward Peyronies Disease therapy than any other method.

The above is just my considered opinion based on many years of experience personally and with others in using the VED for Peyronies Disease therapy.

Old Man
Title: Re: What are my chances of restoring length?
Post by: jsotheby on June 22, 2008, 12:40:55 PM
Thanks for the posts.  I would only like to get back the 3cm+ I have lost to be in average range again.

Also, I cannot comprehend what the difference is b/w using a pump and just manually stimulating an erection?  Maybe once I try I will see the difference.  I guess it's just more pressure? 
Title: Re: What are my chances of restoring length?
Post by: Old Man on June 22, 2008, 01:03:38 PM
jsotheby:

One of the main differences between hand manipulation and VED pressure is that you cannot pull as much blood flow into the penis with your hand as the pump does. Maybe, just maybe, if you can still get somewhat of a natural erection, you could possibly hand manipulate enough blood flow to do some good. However, I doubt that hand manipulation could ever duplicate the constant steady flow of blood into the corporal chambers as the VED does.

Hand manipulation can and will cause further damage to your penis if you overdo the pulling effect or mashing, etc. So, if you do exercise with that method, just be careful. OTOH, the VED has been demonstrated to be a viable and safe method of therapy for Peyronies Disease if used safely in a moderate regimen.

Old Man
Title: Re: What are my chances of restoring length?
Post by: crank on June 22, 2008, 01:34:16 PM
Quote from: jsotheby on June 22, 2008, 12:40:55 PM
Also, I cannot comprehend what the difference is b/w using a pump and just manually stimulating an erection?  Maybe once I try I will see the difference.  I guess it's just more pressure? 

Not more pressure, but a different kind..vacuum pulls blood into the penis with negative pressure ( same as sucking liquid through a straw)..

A natural erection is initiated by the central nervous system (CNS) after arousal..the body delivers blood to the penis...With Peyronies Disease the vascular delivery system is impaired by a host of possible causes unique to the individual biology..manual stimulation will produce the same old impaired natural erection over and over via the impaired delivery system..

The VED erection saturates tissue with blood and oxygen repetitively in a different way..one hopes that new routes for blood delivery will be found by the body in time, but blood and oxygen are healing by nature..the body will do it's best to heal itself with time and persistence.

crank
Title: Re: What are my chances of restoring length?
Post by: Tim468 on June 22, 2008, 02:04:42 PM
There are several differences beteween a "natural" erection and having external vacuum pressures inflate the penis.

First, you may do "better" if your erections are weaker than they should be.

Second, and far more importantly, is the notion of applying forces to the tissue to stretch it out. Multiple times we have discussed this here - the main issue is that when a longitudinal force is applied to the penis it stretches out the short side with more force than it stretched out the long side. To get this effect, however, the penis needs to be in a narrow cylinder - or it will just curve the way it now curves within the large cylinder.

The key is using the cylinder that is slightly narrower than your natural diameter of the penis. By doing this, the head (which inflates as well) forms a seal at the end of the tube that is then pulled away from the body. This exerts a longitudinal stretch on the penis, and that is - again - transmitted to the shorter side greater than to the long side.

To "get it" about this - simply take two rubber bands of different length and size and pull them until they are both just taut. It will become immediately apparent that the shorter rubber band is being pulled much more than the longer one is being pulled. This will - over time - lengthen the shorter side.

This is a really simple and yet powerful concept to get about the difference between the VED and a regular erection. If it were simply a matter of getting blood into the penis, then there would be no difference (except to men unable to get a spontaneous erection).

May I make a periodic plug for folks to read the "Child Boards" also known as the "Newly Diagnosed Highlights" right at the top of the opening page to get caught up on the operating assumptions that many of us make here!

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 23, 2008, 10:13:58 AM
jackisback

The 26 week protocols are listed in the Child Boards link just below the Main Forum link on the home page of the forum, not where I stated in my last PM to you. It is the second thread down on the main topic for the highlights section for VED, etc.

Old Man
Title: Re: What are my chances of restoring length?
Post by: jsotheby on June 23, 2008, 08:36:29 PM
Thanks.

Have any of you guys who use the therapy seen improvement in the area of ED.  That is, any return of spontaneous function, longer lasting erections w/o device, etc.? 
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on June 26, 2008, 01:54:55 AM
approaching end week 2 - there seems to be a bit of improvement - but i am not sure - sometimes after pumping theres a bit of pain....
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on June 26, 2008, 06:41:07 AM
Iceman
Watch the pressure. Do not over pump to the point of pain this will only lead to more trouble, been there done that.
More is not better when it comes to vacuum pressure. Sometimes it is a fine line to find the right pressure.
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on June 26, 2008, 08:30:12 AM
Iceman..

I'm on day 28..my comfort level is 100-120mm...no pain and no gain..I started at a conservative 80mm and slowly increased that..

Curious about how much N.P..you are pumping to get a bit of pain..I saw Tim's post about 200mm and that is too much for me, for sure..
Maybe later on..

crank

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on June 26, 2008, 09:01:48 PM
oldman - help!!

I can seem to get any suction when using cylinder b, nothing happens the penis just move ever so slightly but its nothing like cylinder c ( the smallest one - and Im average size).... when i tried the largest cylinder there was absolutely nothing - is this meant to be like this - i mean the larger the cylinder the less 'pull' so to speak - should I just use the smallest cylinder??

Thx
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on June 27, 2008, 10:51:54 AM
I had a similar problem. Solved it by making sure that adequate lubricant was at every joint between the cylinder and the rubber ring. Also use a small amount on the o ring where the pump and cylinder meet. Apparently it does not take much of an air leak to cause a problem. BTW, I am using the Augusta OTC unit from Fitzz, if that helps correlate.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 27, 2008, 11:44:38 PM
Iceman:

If you are using the three cylinder purchased VED follow what seaside2 says below in his post. Any leak will not allow you to pump up pressure. So make sure that you use plenty of lube and you might need to shave off enough of the pubic hair around the base of you penis to allow for a better seal.

Just keep working different things until you find out what is causing the problem. The three cylinder models from Augusta nest inside each other and when it is time to use the medium cylinder (B on the protocol) you need to use enough lube around the mouth of the cylinder to develop a good seal.

Hope this helps, but if not, just let me know.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Toby on June 29, 2008, 09:35:04 PM
Hi guys, I have been using a new 3 cylinder model ved from August Medical . I am having much better luck than with the Osbon model single cylinder. Thanks for all the info. I also have begun using the 26 week protocol listed here just this week. One problem I did notice. When using the A cylinder I have noticed a raised welt around the circumference of my penis that corresponds with the gap in the inserts. It is about a half inch from my  body and matches perfectly with the small gap between the insert and A cylinder. It goes away shortly after use and is not painful. Has any one else noticed this?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 29, 2008, 11:08:20 PM
Toby:

Yes, this has been a problem with sizing inserts for the old Soma Correct model VEDs that were taken off the market. The newer Somaerect sizing inserts were redesigned to take care of the problem you are having. The new insert was made longer to close up the gap you see when all three cylinders are nested, etc. and should not cause any problem like you are having.

If you bought your VED directly from Augusta Medical Systems, call their 800 number and talk to a technician about your problem. There may be a solution for it. If you did not get through that company, try talking to the company you where purchased it.

Now, as a suggestion, you might be using too much pressure or exercising for too long a period when using the small A cylinder. You should only use enough pressure to help pull your shaft as far out into the cylinder as possible without overdoing it. Also, don't hold the pressure for each pumping cycle too long, 10 seconds is enough. Since you say you are not experiencing any pain or discomfort does not mean that you are not using too much vacuum pressure. Your penis may stand a lot more pressure than you realize, so be careful not to pump too high a pressure. Caution is the watchword in using the VED exercises. Better to be safe than sorry.

Hope the above helps.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: kinoast on July 02, 2008, 12:18:40 AM
Old Man et all...

I've been reading the boards for the last year--lurking if you will--and want to take a moment to say "thanks" for all the info/reassurance/camaraderie and to ask a few questions.

First:  I was self-diagnosed Peyronies a couple years back (I'm 36 yo) after I noted that my congenital curve was getting much worse and I was noticing that I'd lost girth on my left side--as well as having experienced some pain in that area after sex.  I never had one inciting incident that caused it all, but I did see a urologist at UCLA medical who said basically there was nothing I could do,  I didn't have any evidence of plaque, but if I could still have sex, I was fine (we've all heard that one, apparently).  Granted there are those who have it much worse than I do, but I'd like to prevent any further curvature (I'm about 25-30 percent to the left) and also to restore the indentation that has increased in the middle of my unit, along the left side.

I've been mostly following a haphazard supplement therapy.  First vitamin e and L-Arginine.  Now ALC and L-arginine.  A month ago I think I might have re-injured myself, and I started taking some ibuprofen and gotu kola, which is supposed to have natural anti-inflammatory properties.

All this led me to reacquainting myself with the 'boards and discovering this thread.  I'm really excited about the possibility of restoring my natural girth and a bit of length I think I've lost in all this.  It's worth a shot anyway.

Now the question.  Forgive me if this has been brought up previously, but I'm a little surprised that in the discussion of the three cylinder VED therapy, there's no consideration given (as far as the cylinder sizes go) as to the varying width of individual penises.  Peni?  Frankly, I'm on the smaller size (yep, sucks to have that *and* Peyronies, but I've got a sense of humor about it--as my dad used to say, "if I wasn't laughing, I'd be crying") and am concerned about ordering the Fitzz VED unit that's been spoken about on the board (is this the one?)

http://tinyurl.com/5hz3sr

...and having it not work well or correctly.

I'd appreciate your thoughts, Old Man and anyone else who wants to weigh in.  I'm guessing that we're not all the same length and girth here.

And thanks again, for everyone's questions and answers.  They help inspire a good bit of confidence at the end of the day.  Much obliged.

Cheers,

Damian
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on July 02, 2008, 12:42:07 AM
I dealt with that problem of differences by getting my own cylinders. Here is the variety from where I got em:

1¾ x 8", 1½ x 9",  1¾ x 9",  2 x 9", 2¼ x 9",  2½ x 9", 3 x 9"

At the site below is an image. Not sure why, but they also carry 12 inch long cylinders... talk about depressing...

They also recommend the following choices by circumference:

Penis Circumference,   then order Cylinder Diameter

5 1/2"                              1.75"
6 1/4"                              2"
7"                                   2.25"
7 7/8"                             2.5"

They recommend rounding up if you fall between. I'd recommend rounding down to get a snug fit for the "small" (or "A") cylinder.

Tim

http://www.stockroom.com/pumps.htm
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 02, 2008, 11:00:58 AM
kinoast:

I could not get the link you had in your post to work for me. The three cylinder VED that we are talking about in previous posts is a unit made by the Augusta Medical Systems. It is their Vitality OTC manual or battery powered VED with the three cylinders and does not require an RX to obtain. It can be purchased from the Fitzz company. Their web site is posted earlier in this topic.  For the summer months they are offering it at a sale price of $229.99 with free shipping I think.

Since you state that you are on the small size, you should have no problem with the smallest cylinder provided in the package. The 26 week suggested protocol for Peyronies Disease is posted in the Child Boards section on the home page of the main forum.

I am sure you will have a lot questions that may come to mind if and when you get your VED. So, feel free to ask any and all either before or after you purchase the unit. As Tim 468 states, if you are handy with tools and have the desire, you can make your own unit. However, this would require that you make three separate cylinder assys. that would work with the one pump, etc. There are several that have made their own units and have had no problem with them.

Good luck to you and let us know if there is any way we can assist you, etc.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/web address of Fitzz company
Post by: Old Man on July 02, 2008, 11:16:01 AM
Note to all:

I have been asked many times lately about the web address of the Fitzz company that sells the Vitality OTC VED.

It is:    www.fitzz.com

This brings up the home page. The VEDs are listed under the heading of sexual health in the left margin of links on that page.

Old Man

PS: Their web site seems to be under revision at the moment. In the meantime, you can contact them by this phone number:   1+888-813-3621 if you cannot get them on line.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 02, 2008, 11:27:38 AM
kinoast:

I finally was able to get the web site you listed in your post. It brought up the Fitzz page with the Vitality OTC VED unit. That is the VED that is talked about on this forum. The price is $229.99 with free shipping s noted in their web ad.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on July 02, 2008, 11:43:58 AM
Kinoast:

I was glad I decided to make my own cylinders...I could not seal the 1.50" i.d. cylinder that I made first (old shrunken willy)..I then made a 1.25" i.d. cylinder and I get a good seal...Tim and Old Man talk about sealing the head a lot...pulls and stretches the rod..

I've made 6 cylinders out of PVC and acrylic tubing..they are not hard to make..I use a manual pump..

Good luck,

crank

P.S. At the swimming hole when I was a kid, we called the guys with the big ones, "bankwalkers"..glad to hear that you are approaching this with your sense of humor intact...We might as well... ;D
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on July 02, 2008, 12:07:55 PM
The VED clyinders I have purchased all came with a coupling attachment and I bought one pump. Although I consider myself quite handy in the workshop, I did not assmebly or work at all to put together a customized (and considerably cheaper) setup.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: kinoast on July 03, 2008, 01:23:03 AM
Thanks everyone for the info and advice.  Sorry about the link problems... I used the "tinyURL" site to compact the lengthy URL.  Might have set it down incorrectly.  I know we're all talking about the same model.

http://www.fitzz.com/Vitality-Plus-Three-Cylinder-Vacuum-Therapy-Treatment-System--Recommended-for-Peyronies-Therapy_p_503-1983.html# (http://www.fitzz.com/Vitality-Plus-Three-Cylinder-Vacuum-Therapy-Treatment-System--Recommended-for-Peyronies-Therapy_p_503-1983.html#)

I guess I should consider making my own cylinders.  I'm handy, but lazy and am considering just ordering this model and seeing how it goes.  If I have to, I could add my own cylinders.

I need to study the 26 week program a little more to understand the mechanics of what is going on, but my questions remains, would the larger cylinders be effective for a guy of smaller size?

Thanks.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 03, 2008, 09:13:47 AM
kinoast:

The three cylinder VED usage protocol is designed to give an overall therapy program for Peyronies Disease. Yes, you must use the larger cylinders in the program to realize the most benefit from the regimen.

The protocol is posted in a topic in the Child Boards section on the home page. If you have any questions about the protocol, just ask and there will be an answer for you. There are two different protocols: one for those using the purchased three cylinder models like the Vitality OTC unit and one for those making their own three separate cylinder model VEDs. Each has notes that should be studied to help with determing whether or not they would want to make their VEDs or purchase one already made.

The bought three cylinder models have cylinders that nest inside each other and takes on a different approach to the therapy than the one separate cylinder model VEDs.

Hope the above explains a bit more for you. If you have any further questions, just ask.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on July 07, 2008, 05:53:05 PM
old man,

hi there...

1) what is the theory behind the usage of the VED - how is it meant to improve Peyronies Disease and straighten the curve out?

2) I have been going through the threads on VED and there is not too much evidence there or testimonials for the use of VED - are the studies on the use of VED and its effectiveness in improving Peyronies Disease?

thx
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 09, 2008, 05:52:11 PM
Iceman:

No, as far as I know, there are no published studies on the efficacy of VED therapy for Peyronies Disease. In fact, there few, if any, on the effectiveness of ED either. There is/was a study going on in Birmingham, by a urology group there using the three cylinder model VED. To my knowledge, they have not published the results of this study. There were around 1,000 guys using the 26 week protocol for the three cylinder model.

I have emailed the manager of the study on at least 4 occasions but to date have not received an answer. Why the study has not been published remains a mystery. My personal uro who was instrumental in my VED therapy is aware of the study, but she has not received any information about it either.

As far as the forum is concerned, there are a few documented cases that have been posted by members here. I can name one about three or four, but for the most part those receiving good results just come back and post their stories.

So, bottom line fellows, since the question has been raised, why don't those having received good results please come back on line and post what happened for you!

Now about the theory behind VED usage.Many years ago Dr. Geddings Osbon (who apparently had Peyronies Disease) developed the early model of a VED. Results of that model prompted him to revise it and add new features that were learned from experience. There were several models made by his company over the years and most guys who used it for ED as well as Peyronies Disease showed promise toward helping with their symptoms. Later, he retired, sold the company and it changed hands several times and is now owned by the Timm division of Endocare, Inc. They produce the Osbon Esteem model now. The main theory about VED usage is to help with better blood flow into the penis in order to keep it healthy. Also, the constant daily stretching of the plaque/nodules and other symptoms including curvature is a positive side effect of the therapy. IOW,the constant daily stretching of the penile shaft could, in most cases, help straighten the curvature.

The above are just my opinions based on many years of VED usage myself and that of others that I have worked with during that time. I still work with my personal uro with patients who want and need help with their ED and Peyronies Disease problems. There have been quite a number of those guys who saw great benefit from their VED usage.

Hope this helps, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on July 10, 2008, 03:22:02 AM
 Oldman - you said: 'Also, the constant daily stretching of the plaque/nodules and other symptoms including curvature is a side effect of the therapy.'

what does this mean - i couldnt really follow it in your last thread.

thx
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 10, 2008, 08:43:21 AM
Iceman:

Wow, I can see why you misread my statement about side effects. I was trying to relate that correcting the curvature was a "good side effect" of the VED therapy. IOW, the constant daily stretching of the penile shaft could, in most cases, help with straightening the curvature.

Suppose that I had best re-read my post before hitting the send button. I will modify the post to relate what I should have said.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: kinoast on July 11, 2008, 02:03:13 AM
Hey all...

Just wanted to give an update.  I received my pump and three cylinder system from Fitzz today and just tried it out with a little "mini" session.  Used the smallest cylinder, nested within the larger two as directed.  Had a little problem with a bit of scrotum trying to get into the tube, but the suggestions from previous posts helped in this and I got the hang of it.  The whole process was *much* easier than I'd thought it would be and I'm starting off gently--easing into the program, if you will.  I might end up making a slightly smaller (1.25") A cylinder as I'm not sure I'm getting the right amount of snugness and upward pull on my penis with the supplied 1.5" (eh, such is life).

One question:  I've noted that some guys mentioned doing this after a shower.  Is there any advantage to literally warming up the penis tissue with a regular shower before doing this?  I'd like to do what would be best for the ol' soldier, but taking a shower after and washing off the gunk would be a lot easier.  Just curious.

Thanks for all the advice and help.  Feels good to be doing something.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on July 11, 2008, 01:17:20 PM
Kinoast,

Some of (me included) think that there is an advantage to being warmed up first. Similarly, most guys who do "penis enlargement" exercises feel that it works better when they are warmed up first. I personally do my VED session in a shallow, warm bath every night. Deep enough to soak in and then shallow enough to lift out of to soap up and get a good seal in.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: aerosick on July 11, 2008, 07:25:01 PM
Quote from: Tim468 on July 11, 2008, 01:17:20 PM
Kinoast,

Some of (me included) think that there is an advantage to being warmed up first. Similarly, most guys who do "penis enlargement" exercises feel that it works better when they are warmed up first. I personally do my VED session in a shallow, warm bath every night. Deep enough to soak in and then shallow enough to lift out of to soap up and get a good seal in.

Tim

Tim,

Are you following the 26-Week Protocol Program with 3 tubes? If so, where are you in the Treatment now?

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,697.msg14684.html#msg14684

Billy
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on July 11, 2008, 10:40:05 PM
I am past that. I now do the narrowest tube nightly and the middle sized tube weekly in a maintenance schedule.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on July 13, 2008, 11:18:10 PM
OLDMAN - Just saw my Uro who said a couple of interesting things regarding the use of the VED. He said that as long as I was getting strong nocturnal erections and that if these were OK then I was  healthy and that the usage of a VED was a COMPLETE waste of time and effort as enough fresh blood was getting pumped into my penis with these nocturnals - can you help me as Ive been following your guidance for the past 6 months - also he was very sceptical about this forum and the people who claim to be promoing te usage of VED; implying that they were sales reps for these devices.........

He also said that in no way would the usage of a ved straighten any curvature---he said it was impossible..

he also totally trashed ALC and Larg...........

let me know

many thx
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on July 14, 2008, 09:08:50 AM
He sounds pretty open-minded, Iceman!

Now I have to go to the bank to salt away my millions I am making selling VED's on the internet.

I love it when people have opinions about things they know nothing about. It would seem that he has not been here, or he would not think we are selling stuff (Note to Angus - stop telling guys to make their own VEDs to save money!!).

Since there is sparse literature about remodeling of tissue - especially tunica that is scarred - he has every right to be skeptical. He is trying to do you a favor to send you away from places that would entice you to spend money that will not help. That is not a bad thing - and God knows that most of what we discuss here to help each other fails!

Levine recently published his preliminary report on the value of traction devices to help straighten a bent penis. There is not yet any published data on the use of the VED. But of all the "useless" things we have tried here, the VED seems to have helped most of us somewhat. It helped me to the tune of better erections and gaining back about 10 degrees of curvature.

Hang in there, Iceman!

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: aerosick on July 14, 2008, 10:03:39 AM
UPDATE:

I still don't really believe that I have Peyronie's, but maybe I'm in denial! I don't have plaque that can be felt, I just have the last 1-1/2" that just hangs slightly down. On the bottom side, the 2 bulbourethal ducts were hard and I had almost no stretch of my penis. It stayed tight like there was no elasticity.

After a few weeks of applying Vitamin E oil and taking Vitamin E, I bought a VED last week. I got the single tube and started with that. My wife got enthused with this and built a splint from cardboard for my penis to slide on to help keep it straight in the tube. 1 week is a very short time to trace, but my penis is more awake now, stretches easier and the sex is doable now.

I would end this with "More to come", but that's not a very funny pun, ha!

Billy
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 14, 2008, 10:23:07 AM
Iceman:

I echo Dr. Tim's comment with a vivid purple passion!!! I know that you have to trust some one when it comes to the most prized possession your body owns. However, at this point, I do think that your doctor just does not know what the VED therapy can and will do for one's worst nightmare, Peyronies Disease.

Many decades of therapy, pills and other treatments, with no success and the VED almost completely ridded me of the symptoms, I can vouch for the VED 100%. Other can too. As for the selling of VEDs, like Dr. Tim said, we all are "making millions off our sales. Nothing further from the truth, we only have a desire to help other pour souls with this mess.

So, my recommendation to you is this: continue on with the VED therapy using moderate pressures and caution about overpumping and do this on a daily schedule per the protocol. Let us know if you need help in any manner.

Dr. Tim:  Thanks for your support of the VED therapy and what I call defending the application of it for Peyronies Disease therapy. We on this forum know that it can and will help in most cases of Peyronies Disease.

Regards to both of you, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 14, 2008, 10:27:06 AM
aerosick:

I would like to caution you about using other items while using the VED. The cardboard item should not cause a problem, but it could, so be extremely careful with it if you wish to continue using it. It is strongly recommended that you do not use this item, but substitute lubricant to help get your penis to go into the cylinder easily.

The single cylinder VED requires more attention to use than the three cylinder models. So, be sure that you use plenty of lube on your penis and inside the cylinder.

If you have any questions about using the single cylinder, please let the forum know and some of us can supply help to you.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: aerosick on July 14, 2008, 11:17:11 AM
Old Man,

Thanks for your advice. One thing I forgot to mention is that my urination stream is almost back up to where it used to be. It seems to have opened me up a bit. Also, I had my prostrate checked by my Urologist this month and he found nothing awry.

Billy
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on July 15, 2008, 05:49:42 AM
thx oldman - i will keep up the 26 protocol and let you know the progress- i am on week 5 now and there is really no visible change to speak of - my uro is one of the best and its really odd how we on the forum conflict with the  so called knowledgeable uros that we pay good money for -

hopefully i can report positively on the ved usage as time passes
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 15, 2008, 10:48:16 AM
Iceman:

We on this forum are posting about our experience where it is firsthand, not from some textbook which may or may not be up to date. As Peyronies Disease has been known around the world since the 1700s and no definitive solution has been found does not help us at all. We are mostly left to fend for ourselves.

Not to know doctors, but they just don't seem to get it when it comes to Peyronies Disease and its devastation. The only ones that I know who are understanding about this mess are the ones who have it themselves. It is surprising that sometimes, I encounter my personal docs who have it and when they find out that I have had it, they ask all kinds of questions. It gives my an opportunity to help even doctors, some in urology.

So keep up the VED exercises and the forum posted on your progress, good or bad.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on July 15, 2008, 12:47:34 PM
I've been on the VED program now for about four weeks. An interesting "side effect" is that now my urine stream is more viable. Previously, I was taking two Flomax tablets per day, with some fairly significant side effect in reduced semen flow. I am now down to 1/day on some days. It appears as though the VED has helped in this area. :)

Also, I am already seeing some straightening of the penis. ;D
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 15, 2008, 05:45:54 PM
seaside2:

Really appreciate you posting your positive results from using the VEDs. I just hope that others will step forward and post their results with VED usage.

I highly urge any and all using the VED therapy to please post their results, good or bad. In addition, list what the positive or negative effects one experiences so that others may have the benefit of your experience. Even though each and every case Peyronies Disease is different from any other, it is basically the same category of problem. What works for one may or may not work for another, but our experiences can and will be of help to others. We are all in this together, so let's share our results, good or bad.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LWillisjr on July 15, 2008, 06:00:36 PM
I realize there are several of you that promote and encourage the use of VED's. But in addition to Old Man's post below, I would like to encourage all those who have had either improvement or negative results from any type of treatment to post on the forum. I think one of the great aspects of this forum is that all treatment types are discussed. I see threads on Meds, VED's, and surgery. Maybe we should also start threads on Shock Wave therapy, stretching devices, etc.

I would think we would want to explore all types of treatment successes and failures. I see lots of good information here. But I also see where many people post a few times, learn about treatment options, and then unfortunately no followup as to the success or failure. Yes there are a few successes, and a few horror stories. But a dozen success stories out of thousands who visit this site doesn't add up statistically for me.
Title: Success story
Post by: Angus on July 15, 2008, 07:11:35 PM
 Here's my success story. After making my own VED's and following the 26 week protocol for almost a year and a half, the curve reduced from 45 degrees to less than 10 degrees. There is also lost size restoration (NOT enlargment) and overall better erections as a result of VED use. From day one we have encouraged guys to post the good and the bad. Many pop on to the forum, get some questions answered and we never hear from them again. Unless this changes and men actually get out of the chair and DO something, then post results, we will be short in the results area. There is a hard enough time getting men to TALK about Peyronies Disease, let alone try a protocol and post results. No, we don't have thousands or even hundreds of men posting statistical results for a given treatment or protocol but there does exist a small but firm representation of men who have had success with VED use. There are already threads for traction and shock wave therapy (ESWT) on the forum... until men participate actively and post results in the appropriate thread, we will only have the smalll number of results posters to base a decision on.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: terryd on July 17, 2008, 11:01:50 AM
Here's mine so far been on HOME MADE VED for 8 week's first to week,s i scruded up started over twice but been on 26 week's just started week 6 with over an inch gain in length and girth went from 45 to about30-35 curve but notice when i go from small to bigger tube curve gets a little worse.Wife didn't no i was doing program we talk about it but that was all just talk.Made whoop 3 times since started all 3 times she made comment how big i felt so i told her now she believes it works and so do i.Ijust wont back what i Had.Getting closer ;D
Title: Small versus larger VED tube
Post by: bodoo2u on July 17, 2008, 02:46:32 PM
I tend to stay with the smaller tube because it seems that I have better results regarding curvature. Like a lot of the guys that post here, I too notice fuller erections because of the VED. I do notice, however, that my penis is beginning to have this "weathered" appearance. I'm not sure if it's the results of the VED, Peyronies or if it's because I'm in my mid 40s and the it's time for a change of appearance, as in I'm getting old. LOL
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on July 17, 2008, 09:01:34 PM
old man - is it necessary to use the biggest cylinder as the middle one allows enough room for me - whats the benefit..

cheers
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 17, 2008, 10:30:58 PM
boodoo2u:
So you are in your 40s! Gee you are getting old, huh? In less than two months, I will be 79 and counting on many more. Golly, what would I give to be in my 40s again and know what I know now. Enough of the bantering from me- what you are seeing could be the result of the constant stretching of the shaft, etc.
Nothing to worry about. Penises change appearance all the time and there should be little if any concern about it. Just relax and enjoy getting some relief from Peyronies Disease if that is happening for you.

Iceman:

Yes, it is necessary to use the largest cylinder. The 26 week protocol is designed around giving your penis all the advantages of the small, medium and large cylinders. The small one sets up more of a lengthwise pull, the medium sets up a girth pull as well as lengthwise, and the large one sets up the maximum pull for girth and length. So, I recommend to any and all using the three cylinder model VEDs to stay on the protocol. Those using the home made VEDs with three separate individual cylinders should also use the same approach. The protocol, if followed to the letter, can and will produce positive in most cases. Only a very few cases of Peyronies Disease show negative results with the VED therapy.

And, in some cases, the protocol should be repeated if there are negative results from the first 26 week course. I know, I know, it does seem like a waste of time, but believe you me, the VED therapy will work, just have patience.

Old Man
Title: Old.... sheesh
Post by: Angus on July 17, 2008, 10:52:30 PM
Ah yes, I remember my 40's. Man, I was old then. I don't know what I am now... a fossil I guess  ;D.

Listen to Old Man. Use all the cylinders and follow the schedule. I did the 26 weeks three times in succession to get what I wanted out of it. And it worked. What you get out of this will be directly related to how much work and dedication you put in to it.

Don't worry about weathered appearance. We're not gonna look like teenagers forever. Well, all except for me... I've been told I don't look a day over 60  :D Think of it as kind of like a '57 Chevy... the paint might be a little weathered and dull but if it runs, that's all that matters  8)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on July 17, 2008, 11:33:38 PM
I bailed out on using the largest cylinder - I was rattling around in it like a BB in a boxcar.

Also, I tended to get my scrotum pulled up into it, which sucked (or more precisely, sucked on the wrong thing).

Tim
Title: VED progress report
Post by: crank on July 18, 2008, 12:21:25 PM
Showing modest improvement in 50 days..pumping twice daily..homemade cylinders are 1.25", 1.50", and 1.75" on the i.d...

Some degree of encouragement.. :)

crank
Title: VEDs
Post by: Old Man on July 18, 2008, 04:33:24 PM
Crank:

Have patience and keep up the daily schedule. Just remember not to overpump the pressure and "ruin" something. As Dr. Tim says, sometimes when you get lubricant on the scrotum, it has a tendency to get pulled up into the cylinder. If you have the sizing inserts that came with the VED, be sure to use the inner insert only with the smallest cylinder, and the outer (larger insert) with the medium and large cylinder. They are designed to help with getting a seal and to prevent the scrotum from being pulled up into the cylinder. I have had report of guys' testicles being drawn up into the cylinder because they did not use the insert(s).

Good luck and keep the faith, something good will happen for you!

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jayhawk on July 18, 2008, 04:47:27 PM
Old Man,
My question is, if you missed a week due to travel do you start over at week one of the 26 weeks or resume where you left off?
Sorry if this has already been covered!
Jayhawk
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 18, 2008, 05:26:41 PM
Jayhawk:

For only week off the VED therapy due to travel or whatever, there should be no reason why you would start over at week one. I would suggest that you just pick up at the beginning of the weekly schedule where you left off. If you are off the schedule for two or more weeks, it might be best to start over at week one unless you are out in the area of the larger cylinders weekly schedule where are going for maximum girth and length stretching.

Staying on the schedule is of utmost importance, since any lapse of time can allow the penis to start shrinking back again. Daily stretching provides the best therapy for it, hence the value of nocturnal erections if one is in a natural state of sexual health for example.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jayhawk on July 18, 2008, 05:37:33 PM
Thanks Old Man,
One other question, While my plak is on the top of the shaft starting close to the tip and going down about one inch, when I use the VED with the small cylinder  I feel more pilling on the underside toward the top. Is this normal? Or is there anything normal about our condition?
Jayhawk
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 18, 2008, 09:14:07 PM
Jayhawk:

Yes and no, there is nothing normal about Peyronies Disease. Each and every case is totally different from any other. Some symptoms are similar, but not exactly, each case present different ones.

The small cylinder does confine one's penis quite a bit when using it. Just be careful and do not over extend your penis in this cylinder. Use plenty of lubricant when using a VED, especially the small cylinder.

I am assuming what you mean by pilling is the skin or flesh crimping up or doubling up as you pump. If this is the case, you should not force the penis any further by pumping more vacuum. You should release the pressure while holding the cylinder against your body to keep the seal and let the pressure subside before resuming pumping. You might even have to remove your penis from the cylinder, add some lubricant and inserting it back into the cylinder to resume the exercise session. Above all, do not pump to the point of pain or discomfort.

Hope the above helps, but don't hesitate to ask questions, that is what we are here to do, help each other.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - My experience.
Post by: isitgone on July 21, 2008, 11:57:19 AM
Thanks for this forum. Two weeks ago I purchased the Vitality three tube system from Augusta Medical. I developed ED after Prostatectomy in December of 06. After trying Viagra, Cialis, Levitra, Muse, BiMix, TriMix, only the Trimix could give me a stuffable erection. Then suddenly I lost two inches, had an upward curve of 30 degrees, and an hour glass indention. My plaque appears to be a small amount along the top and I have experienced zero pain. Immediately I went on line and found this forum loaded with info.

I am happy to report (after a visit to my Uro, just to confirm the Peyronies, who only offered surgery) that in two weeks I have eliminated the curve, kept the houglass, added a quarter inch and apparently some girth. I have not tried sex or the bands yet but I am close to trying them.

Questions: At 4 " a lot of base gets sucked in with the midsize tube. Would it be ok to use the smaller outer ring with the midsize tube? Do you think the BiMix /TriMix trauma caused my problem? Would you use the TriMix again?

Title: TriMix
Post by: aerosick on July 21, 2008, 12:13:46 PM
Quote from: isitgone on July 21, 2008, 11:57:19 AM
Would you use the TriMix again?

(Off Topic, I think...)

Are you using the shots or the gel or?

Billy

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: isitgone on July 21, 2008, 01:52:06 PM
I have been using shots - not as bad as you think when you get results. Never had any curvature and a good six inches before I started them.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 21, 2008, 02:06:59 PM
isitgone:

For your information, the penile injections has a history of causing more plaque and nodules with constant use over a long period of time. Read back over some of the threads/topics and you will find cases that have been traced to the injections. In some cases, only one injection can cause plaque to start forming.

Have you given any thought that your present upward curve might have been caused by the injections? IMHO, penile injections should be avoided all possible as there are other means of achieving erection without the invasive needle, etc.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on July 21, 2008, 06:38:34 PM
itisgone
I agree with Old Man 100%. Never Ever Ever stick a needle in your penis and inject trimix, bimix, or anyothere ED injectable.
The VED 26 week program would be the best thing you can do for yourself now.
I had Peronies in 1995 and uro put me on Vitamin E and Potaba. Curve did correct itself in about 18 months but I lost 20% of length.
I started VED in October 2006 after heart stents that delayed implant surgery. Used it all wrong and caused problems. For about a year and a half before that I tried PGE1, Trimix and all the pills. Little to no help.
October 2007 implant surgery aborted because of corporal fibrosis and the uro penetrated my urethra. Cause of the corporal fibrosis, shots.
October 2007 I found this site and Old Man set me on the right path to use the VED. Using the pump and release method I had no problems with bruising and have gained back almost 1/2 inch of lost size.
I can tell my corporal fibrosis is better because of the VED therapy and now have an appointment at Vanderbilt for a pre op Friday and Implant Surgery scheduled 8/14 by the best doctor in the southeast.
Good Luck, listen to Old Man the VED therapy works!!!!
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: CHRISTODOULOU on July 21, 2008, 08:02:38 PM
My brother (sorry he is not computer literate ) has been using soma for two months with no sign of improvement - please please help/advise
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 21, 2008, 09:03:29 PM
Christodoulou:

You should go the Child Boards section on the Home Page of this forum. The link to the Child Boards is just below the link to the main forum topics.

Look for the VED topic, open up and get your brother to use the 26 week protocol for the Soma three cylinder model VED. It is well explained what to do there.

However, after reading and trying to follow the regimen listed there and you still have questions, just post them here and we will be glad to help you with any.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: CHRISTODOULOU on July 22, 2008, 04:25:27 PM
Old Man that's so kind to reply and so promptly. Sorry about my reply delay as our hours are different from yours as my brother is in UK and I am in Cyprus

Just spoken with him and he is using Soma therapy ED (without the 'V') 26 week protocol ''the new generation vacuum therapy'' 3 cylinder, supplied with instructions although I will also forward those on the Child Boards

His is the same as the Soma 3 cylinder model VED on the Childs Board, isn't it?

He has decided to be patient and continue

He asks ''once problem corrected satisfactorily do users stop or continue using the treatment therapy and if so for how long''? Does Soma really have approx 90% success rate as some UK doctors say

Thanks Old Man 
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 22, 2008, 09:07:52 PM
Christodoulou:

Yes, I would recommend that he continue using the VED therapy in some form after completing the 26 week schedule. That is, provided he has seen satisfactory results from the first 26 week course. If he has not gotten the results he wanted or needed, then he should repeat the course again and again until he is satisfied with the results or that he can not get any further correction, etc.

I still use the three cylinder VED several times a week not, just for maintenance of the gains made with the VED therapy years ago. Most of the time it is 3 times per week every other day. I have not lost any dimensions by using this schedule. The old saw or adage "if you don't use it, you lose it" will be the rule after VED therapy if some routine of VED exercises is not maintained.

So, you should advise him to continue with the schedule and be patient. Peyronies Disease usually comes on slowly and most likely will go away the same way. As far as I know, the 90% success rate has been accepted by most uros in the USA. However, there does not appear to be any study done to back up that figure. The old Osbon VED company told me they expected to see the 90% rate with guys using their VEDs.

Hope the above helps for your brother.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on July 23, 2008, 01:46:02 AM
oldman - i am trying to visualise how the VED works. Im just a little unclear - is there a scar , very much like a scar on your hand or leg after an accident in the flesh of your penis. And is this scar inflexible hence the bending and the VED pulls on this scar to try and remould your penis back into shape. So by constant repetition the scar is somehow moved - see my unclarirty here.....and does this scar turn into hard plaque after a period of time and by using the VED this somehow negates this hardening process??
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ticker on July 23, 2008, 10:06:14 AM
After a car accident in July of 07,I developed a sharp impact to my groin area from a coffee mug.Aug or Sept.07 I started to notice a difference occurring with my erections.Trying to avoid the situation,my wife spoke up one evening and said something about it.I immediately went to a Eur outside my area because of my embarrassment.He diagnosed me with Peyronies and recommended Vitamin E.To try to sum up my story,I have been to the Cleveland Clinic and they would not recommend anything but wait till the pain is gone (12-18 months) then surgery.Well thats not in my plans at all.I am currently taking Integral E 400 in the morning along with 3 or 4 Neprinol capsules(12-16 daily) I rub Topical Verapamil 15% twice a day since Feb 08 once in the morning and in the evening before bed.I take 1 Maxi Gamma 500 at night.I am in my 11th week of the 26 week VED plan.I have seen some improvement but not what I wish I could see.My wife has also commented that things seem much better with this approach.I have read to much about Neprinol in these threads.I have been reading these threads since Jan.08 and I finally logged in to share my experiences.Thank you.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 23, 2008, 10:27:34 AM
Iceman:

You have just about described what the VED does for Peyronies Disease in your post. Plaque, nodules and other symptoms brought on by whatever reason results in the bends, curves and distortions of one's penis is basically what Peyronies Disease causes. The theory behind VED usage is to first supply a good blood flow into and out of the penile corporal chambers. Nocturnal erections during life before Peyronies Disease did this for you. But since Peyronies Disease and other reasons nocturnal erections are no longer produced, one needs to supplement or augment erections by using the VED.

Another way to look at it this: the daily stretching of the scars, plaque and nodules over a period of time slowly breaks down the formation or further development. It also causes the corporal chambers to be engorged more fully than natural erections due to the higher pressure exerted by the vacuum.

So bottom line is that constant stretching the scar tissue and plaque helps reduce the body's tendency to "shrinking" that portion of one's penis. It helps keep the penis healthy by drawing more blood in than would normally due to the restriction of the Peyronies Disease symptoms.
Careful use of the VED therapy over a period of time usually results in a better overall situation for one's penis and can get rid of the Peyronies Disease symptoms.

The above is just my considered opinion based on my personal experience and that of others that I have worked with in VED therapy.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Angus on July 23, 2008, 11:42:02 AM
Welcome Ticker. I'm glad you are here and posting. It sounds like you've done your homework and are on a good track. Be patient and follow the protocol with the VED. Good things are happening for you. Continue patiently with the therapy as it does take a commitment of time.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: CHRISTODOULOU on July 23, 2008, 04:53:20 PM
Thanks Old Man for all your help. He says that you reaffirmed his thinking and he will continue with the schedule, using Soma Correct Therapy and be patient and is prepared to, as you say, 'repeat the course again and again' to reach satisfied/needed/wanted/best achievable correction

Thanks again

Christodoulou
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 23, 2008, 05:30:16 PM
Christodoulou:

You are quite welcome! That is what this forum is all about, helping each other handle this horrible mess called Peyronies Disease and its related problems.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on July 23, 2008, 09:53:02 PM
Welcome Ticker,

You seem to be doing the things that work, although not many here swear by Neprinol (although they often swear about it's price!).

It is gratifying to hear of your wife's comments. My wife said roughly the same thing - when I am convinced things are getting worse, she says she cannot see any difference, and when she says it feels straighter or bigger or longer, my feelings of success grow (I was going to saw "swell"...). At any rate, keep up the hard work - you are doing the right things - and waiting is not one of them.

Tim
Title: quick VED question...
Post by: Steve on July 27, 2008, 10:43:57 AM
Old Man and others,

I had an observation today that I thought I'd pass on for comments.  When doing my VED excercise (in the middle tube), I noticed that the length that was produce seems to be entirely due to the tube being pressed deeper into my abdomen.  I made sure my body didn't move, and made note of where tip of the Glans was on a table.  I then pumped up, and noticed that the tip hadn't actually moved more than 1/4". I'm guessing that this is an indication of the loss of 'stretchability' in the penis due to the Peyronies Disease?  Any thoughts???

PS, I'm having trouble getting Notifications, so if I don't answer replys in a timely manner, that's why.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 27, 2008, 02:40:21 PM
Steve:

The middle cylinder lets your penis expand in girth more than in the small one. This why the protocol calls for using all three cylinder per the protocol. Each week presents a different set of pressures being applied to separate portions of one's shaft. The overall pattern of using the three cylinders gives the shaft a general workout all the way from being stretched further in the small cylinder to letting it fully expand in the large one.

The constant daily pattern should present the best approach to VED usage. However, in your case, you do not seem to be getting as much accomplished as others with the therapy. I know that at this point you are beginning to wonder if you will ever see any positive results. Yes, you already have gotten positive results in that you have caused your penis to realize that it can be stretched and pulled to allow better blood flow. I would strongly urge you to continue the exercises, but maybe modify the procedure you are using in some way to allow for a different method, etc.

You might would want to try the "milking action" as I mentioned to you earlier. I would be glad to help you with developing a sub procedure using it for you if you want me too.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on July 28, 2008, 01:02:09 AM
oldman -

been on the VED for 6 weeks now and I feel that there is more stretch - it actually feels like a relief when i stretch it - almost like getting a massage for a back or neck injury - its actually like a big relief - is this normal??
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on July 28, 2008, 07:51:42 AM
Steve:

I'm having the same experience with my small cylinder ..the loss of elasticity limits the stretch..at that point the negative pressure pushes the cylinder backward into the groin because it can't pull the glans further into the tube..

The Boston University website reported that one-third of the patients showed calcification ,as I recall, in about 2400 patients..I think that's where I am...the penis is the most elastic body part we have (expanding 3-5 times relaxed size) and when that elasticity is lost, we get the bends..

The larger question is, will VED therapy improve the elasticity ?? that one is up in the air in my mind..and you have been pumping a long time now without any change..I could be in the same boat..

crank
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 28, 2008, 09:54:37 AM
Crank and Iceman:

I really don't believe that either of you have been using the VED long enough to see major benefits yet. The constant daily stretching can and will help with the elasticity of the tissue. You just have to keep up the exercise therapy and maybe modify your procedure a bit to help with the pulling back of the VED into your groin area.

What I do when the VED wants to push/pull back into the groin area is this: with my left hand I hold the entire assy. tight and out from my body while applying a moderate amount of pressure. This will keep it from drawing backwards somewhat. Then after the amount of time I want to hold the pressure occurs, I hit the release button and let the entire assy. ease back somewhat without releasing all the pressure. This takes a little practice, but it will eliminate the pressure against the groin and at the same time applies more pressure on the penis.

Another tip that I use when using the small cylinder is to add extra lube as far out into the cylinder as I can reach. Also, I apply a little extra lube to the head portion of my penis. Using both inserts, I start the cylinder down over head while holding down the release button on the pump. At the same I push my penis into the cylinder and jockey the assy. around a bit to help the penis slide in further. After it goes in as far as it will, then I add vacuum to help pull it on in further. Work slowly and do any adjusting you need to get as much of your penis into cylinder during the cycles of pump up and release.

Once I have started the pump up and release cycles, I do the holding procedure stated above. You just have to experiment with using the VED for any tricks that work for you. Bottom line though, you must have patience and not try to expect results too fast. It does take time to see good returns.

BTW, some guys see good results faster than others due to the differences in their Peyronies Disease symptoms.

Regards, Old Man
Title: VED small tube pushing on the pubic bone
Post by: Angus on July 28, 2008, 11:47:54 AM

    What Old Man says is absolutely true. Hold the small cylinder with the left hand (right hand if you're left handed) and push the cylinder away from your body as you pump slowly. You will have to equal the force that is pulling the cylinder into your pubic bone. As the penis reaches erection status it cannot stretch lengthwise any more and the pulling force is transferred to the tube that has no where to go except towards your body. Go VERY EASY with pumping at this point and prepare to stop pumping because your penis is telling you it cannot stretch lengthwise any more. This is a good time to stop creating more vacuum; just hold that cylinder so it can't push on your body, hold the vacuum for several seconds, then release. You may be tempted to apply that "extra" pump or two to see if the penis will stretch that "extra half inch" you've always dreamed about. DON'T. Stop right there as the extra vacuum won't speed up the therapy and will eventually cause edema of the skin, swelling, redness and all sorts of bad things. Keep in mind you are NOT enlarging anything... you are trying to re-coup any shrinkage that has taken place and improve blood flow to the penis. Moderate vacuum with a steady schedule is ALWAYS the best approach as you cannot speed things up with outrageous overpumping. Stay away from that at all costs.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on July 28, 2008, 01:00:01 PM
Hi Old Man and Angus:

I just did a pumping exercise following your advice to hold the cylinder slightly away from the body...It worked great..I'm still pumping at 140-160 mm, so I don't think I will harm the tonk at that pressure, but I am going slow on that..

Many thanks for the help..

You guys are always encouraging and I know that it takes a lot of time and endurance to change things..I'm hanging in for the duration..

crank
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 28, 2008, 02:10:24 PM
Crank:

Just a foot note to Angus's post. You know what he means when he says small cylinder is that if your are using three separate cylinders, etc. If my memory serves me right, you have the three cylinder Augusta model and of course the small cylinder is nested inside the medium and large cylinders. So yours will be contained altogether, all three nested, etc.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LWillisjr on July 28, 2008, 05:30:34 PM
Crank,
Just to be clear....   the bend from the Peyronies Disease is not caused directly by calcifed plaque. In my case, the plaque formed and the bend occured almost overnight. While the plaque might be slightly elastic, it certainly is not as elastic as the tunica, and therefore the famous Peyronies Disease bend.

One thing that actaully concerned me is that my specialist told me that.... over time, the plaque would then further calcify, making it even harder to treat.

Let me state, that I'm not against VED therapy, but for some of you guys who are not seeing any improvement from the therapy, if it were my penis I would be trying something different. The calcificatio of the plaque is something I really wanted to avoid. Maybe I'm over-reacting.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on July 29, 2008, 12:17:39 AM
crank,

That phenomenon is real - if you align the tip of the penis visually with something beyond it (like the edge of the bathtub in my case), you can judge lengthening better than by measuring advancement down the tube itself.

The compression of the fat pad is simply part of getting to the final pressure in my case. The amount of vacuum required to pull the tube tightly against the body wall is less than that required to maximally stretch my penis - so this means that only after the tube is firmly against my pubic bone does it feel like the final bit of stretching of the penis occurs.

For a middle aged guy - any guy - losing 20 pounds around the waist is a better way to add 1-2 cm of length to the penis!

Also, I do not think that calcification is required to make the plaque area hard to stretch out. In all cases (all cases with a bend) the tunica is tighter and less stretchy, only in some cases is it calcified. As calcification is a late sign of disease, it is true that it is harder to expect reversal. OTOH, Lue's first report on Pentox reported reversal of calcification.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on July 29, 2008, 01:56:24 AM
tim246 - have you got that report from dr lue???
Title: Lue review article on Peyronie's Disease.
Post by: Tim468 on July 29, 2008, 08:19:50 AM
I have it somewhere. I googled Lue, Peyronie's and calcification and saw it. But I saw something better too. Lue has written a review article that is excellent.

http://knol.google.com/k/tom-lue/peyronies-disease-acquired-deformity-of/YjC9Puq6/B9bMvg#

What a find!
Title: Protocols
Post by: Steve on July 29, 2008, 09:26:05 AM
Old Man,
Yes, I am trying out what I interpret as your 'milking' excercise, following my 10 reps of the 'normal' protocol.  I've added this extra in the last 4 months or so.  If you have any further suggestions, I'd love to hear them because so far, mine has proved to be one of those 'stubborn' cases :(
One observation is that there is some discomfort around the base of the penis when milking with the smallest and largest tubes.  With the middle tube, the extra pressure/stretch is much more gradual.  I attribute this to the 'uniform' ID when using the middle tube (I have the newer sizing/sealing ring that extends down to the top of the middle tube -- no gap).  When I use the smallest tube, the combined sizing rings result in a small gap from the end of the small ring to the top of the small tube.  This results in a short section with a larger ID.  Likewise, when I use the largest cylinder with the normal sizing ring, the ring is a smaller ID than the largest tube.  In both of these cases, the differing ID's cause a bit of discomfort when they pass over the plaque located at the base of the shaft, so I'm much more careful when 'milking' with the smllest or largest cylinders.

Tim,
My thinking about the tubes 'pulling' into the groin mirror yours.  As the tube(s) are pulled into the body and press into the pubic bone, that would present a natural obstruction to further movement of the tubes, and allow the remaining force to be applied to stretching the penis.  In addition, I would think that this would expose more of the penile shaft to the vacuum force.  This in my opinion would be important if some or all of the plaque is located near the base of the shaft (as some of it is in my case -- results from the 12 Verapamil Injections I'm convinced).

Steve
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 29, 2008, 01:51:49 PM
Steve:

The milking action can and will help with the VED exercises, but just be carefull not to aggravate the plaque/nodules by running the inserts over that area. Refrain from doing that if possible when milking the shaft, etc.

Also, vary the amount of vacuum pressure you use while doing the milking exercises. That worked best for me over an extended period of time.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Quinn on July 29, 2008, 06:55:41 PM
Hi guys,

I'm new to this forum. Firstly I'd like to say what a wonderful site this is..it has really helped me to come to terms with my condition and enabled me to take the all important step of seeking help from my Urologist.

I have had Peyronies for over 10 years and currently have a bend of 40-45 degrees towards the left. Following consultation with my urologist he suggested a VED, which I have now been using for the last 3 days. Initially I was pumping up to the point of discomfort, but after reading the advice on the forum I have stopped doing this. I would be grateful, however, if one or two questions could kindly be answered

1) I was advised to use one cylinder only by a rep from the Soma company that provided my device(the "B" or middle sized one). I subsequently have no other cylinders and wonder whether I would still gain therapy from the 26 protocol?

2) My pump is manual and I am currently applying 2 pumps every 10-15 seconds until fully erect whereby I then hold for 20 seconds before releasing the pressure. This appears to be the advice that was given to me..unless of course I have misunderstood it. Should I continue with this regimen or adopt one whereby I pump continuously until fully erect then release after 10-20 seconds?

I'd appreciate any advice given. I wish you all the best and will keep you up to date on any developments
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 29, 2008, 08:14:45 PM
Quinn:

Welcome to the forum. You have come to the right place for help with your Peyronies Disease problem. Many of us on the forum are using the VED therapy protocol that was originally published by the Augusta Medical Systems for the old Soma Correct VED. We have adopted that protocol and it is posted on the Child Boards of the main forum. If you have the one that came with your VED, you can follow it. However if you only have the B medium cylinder it precludes you from using the 26 week schedule unless you purchase the A, small cylinder and the C, large cylinders. If you desire to do so they are available from this company on line:  www.fitzz.com

Visit their home page and look for the sexual health link in the left margin and it will take you to the page where you can see the various items they have for sale. They carry the Augusta Medical line of VEDs. We can help you with this if you need it. I have no clue as to why the rep only gave you the one cylinder. It might have been due to the fact that the Soma Correct VED was taken off the market for Peyronies Disease therapy. The Somaerect replaced it, but was limited by FDA for ED therapy only. Who knows??

The schedule of pumping that you were told to do is not one that I would recommend for you. Waiting so long between pumps does allow for the best scenario. Most of us are using a different approach. We usually pump very slowly, but faster than you were told and when we reach a comfortable state of vacuum, we hold it for about 10 to 15 seconds, release the pressure and while holding the seal against our bodies, we repeat the cycle for about 15 minutes for each pumping session. Two of these sessions per day can be done with no problem

You should visit the VED thread that compiles many posts about the VED and its useage. It covers just about anything you would need to know about VED therapy. It has the 26 week protocol listed in the beginning of the topic. It shows one schedule for those using three separate cylinder VEDs they made themselves and one schedule for the purchased three cylinder model VEDs. After you have read through it and still have questions, just let it be known and we can get you answers.

Good luck to you and again welcome to the best Peyronies Disease forum on the web.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: toto on July 30, 2008, 07:39:01 AM
Great site. I went to the fitzz website and I want to make sure I order the right product. First of all, I think the "Vitality Plus 3 Cylinder Vacuum Therapy" is the one I want? Secondly, if it is in fact then what kind of pump should I get, battery or hand? Thanks in advance and what a wonderful site.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 30, 2008, 10:14:34 AM
toto:

Yes, the unit you stated in your post is the correct one you need to purchase. I would highly recommend the manual powered unit which is listed for the $229.99 price. I believe that shipping and handling is included in that price also. The battery model unit costs more and is really not necessary unless you have some disability that precludes using both hands.

Should you decide to go ahead and purchase this unit, the 26 week protocol for using it for Peyronies Disease therapy is listed in the Child Boards section of the main forum. Just sign in, open the Home Page, and look for the link to the boards that is listed just below the link to the main forum topics. There are two protocols listed there, one for the bought three cylinder model VEDs and one for those guys who made their own VEDs which has separate cylinders that do not nest together like the bought versions.

If you need further help, just let us know. Welcome to the forum and sorry that you had to join the ranks of the Peyronies Disease clan!!

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: CHRISTODOULOU on July 30, 2008, 05:33:12 PM

Hi Old Man

I trust you are well

My brother asks if it is necessary or advisable to take vitamin D while doing Soma therapy which leads me on to ask your opinion on combined treatments as per Ticker's approach posted on: July 23, 2008, 10:06:14 AM

Is the advised optimum treatment for Peyronies actually a combined treatment approach of Soma/VED therapy and something else and if so what is it?

Thanks

Christodoulou
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 30, 2008, 10:41:03 PM
Christodoulou:

There are others on this forum that are more qualified to answer your questions about taking oral meds or supplements while using the VED. George999 should be able to help out here. Maybe he will read your post and advise you of what he thinks.

All I know for sure is that in my case, I only took high dosages of vitamin E while doing my VED therapy for about a year total. Whether or not it helped I have no clue. My Peyronies Disease just finally went away in its entirety. Have very little, if any, symptoms currently.

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on July 30, 2008, 11:45:19 PM
OLDMAN - hi there.....quick question - when I am using the C tube I find that when I apply the pump it tends to wanna take in the area around the base which can be very painful - ive tried about a million different positions but when the pump is on it just sucks everything in - I tried holding the tube out a bit when the pump was on but it still proved in effective - I then put the second smaller inner plastic ring within the larger plastic ring ( I use this smaller ring for tube A + B) and this made life allot better - is this still following the protocol or will this effect the procedure...
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: CHRISTODOULOU on July 31, 2008, 03:24:35 AM
Thanks Old Man

Totally understand that you are not certain of the role played by Vitamin D in your case. It may be difficult to know the effectiveness of supplements/oral meds etc as they may work differently in different cases eg.some may work for some and not for others. Sorry to throw a question at you which is meant for the more qualified and/or profesionals etc

Hopefully George999 we see my original question and help out

Thanks

Christodoulou

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 31, 2008, 12:01:09 PM
Iceman:

Yes, it is OK to use both inserts when using all three cylinders. That is what they are designed for so that the mouth of the large cylinder will be able to fit most any size penis. The scrotum being pulled up into the mouth of the cylinder seems to be a problem that a lot of guys are having with the VEDs. It was a problem for me until I learned how to adjust the inserts and used a bit less lubricant on the base of the penis. The three cylinder VEDs do have several items that has to be experimented with to get the right procedure for each individual.

Since everyone does not have the same physical size and shape, adjustments have to made by each person to compensate for those differences. Takes a bit of practice, but it soon falls into place. Just remember to be careful and not overpump the pressure, especially when using the small A cylinder.

One tip that I use when using all three cylinders is this: I assemble the unit and push a good amount of lube up into the cylinder as far as I can with my index finger. Lubricate the shaft almost all the way to my body, being careful to not get any on the scrotum. Then I lubricate the head portion liberally so that it can slide easily into the mouth of the cylinder. This will carry lubricant along with the head further up into the cylinder. Another thing I do is to hold down the release button on the pump while pushing the cylinder down over the head and shaft as this allows the penis to penetrate the cylinder further as I slowly start pumping pressure.

(Note: Some guys state that they use a baby bottle brush to lube the inside of the small cylinder as it can go as far out into the cylinder as one needs, etc. This requires a lot more lube though.)

Experiment with the above tips and make any adjustment to them that works for you. Let me know if this helps.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Toby on August 01, 2008, 12:32:36 PM
Hi Old Man: Since you have helped me in the past, I tought I would try again. I purchased the Vitality 3 cylinder pump from Augusta and have been using it for 4 weeks. One thing i notice is that sometimes I have a really hard time achieving an erection and other times I get an erection very quickly. Last night and again today I struggled and it took a really long time. I dont always have time. By the time I got an erection and did the exercises it was about 50 minutes. I am getting a seal because when I remove it to try again I can hear the seal break. When I pump I can see the penis lenghtening but in the 5 seconds between pumps it recedes again. Whats up with this? Also I have been using both sizing rings with all cylinders to keep My scrotom from being pulled in the tube. Is this ok? I notice a gap between A cylinder and sizing ring leaves a ring around my penis near the base when using A cylinder. Thanks again for the help you have already given me. I hope you can help again... and again.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Toby on August 01, 2008, 12:55:13 PM
Old Man: I forgot to report that since using ved for 4 weeks I am seeing a big difference in regaining lost length and girth. I also have noticed a lot more feeling in my penis. I think ved is helping, but no  change in curve. Thanks again for being there for me.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 01, 2008, 01:09:09 PM
Toby:

What is happening for you is that the seal is not tight enough so that vacuum pressure does not leak. This occurs quite often when guys start using the VED for the first time. You should make certain that you put a small amount of lube around both sizing inserts prior to placing them into the mouth of the cylinder(s). Also, make sure that you push the inserts well up onto the cylinder mouth. If there is any air gap around them the VED will leak down. You want as tight a seal as possible when pumping, etc.

You should also use plenty of lube at any time you are exercising with the VED. A lot of guys fail to use enough and do further damage to their penises. So, be extremely careful about over pumping the pressure. If it leaks down, try to find out why and remedy that situation.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 01, 2008, 01:16:03 PM
Jackisback:

Apparently you are doing something wrong when using the VED. You should not be experiencing the difficulties that you posted about. VED exercises when done properly with extreme care and moderation does not do further damage to your penis.

Step back, take a good look at what you doing while using the VED and see if you can determine what you are doing wrong. The VED package should have come with a brochure that shows you how to assemble and use the device. Also, you must remember to use enough lubricant so as to not cause friction, pain or discomfort while exercising with VED.

Now, unless you have an extremely large penis, you should try your best to use all three of the cylinders while exercising. If it becomes physically impossible to get at least one half of your penis into the small cylinder, you should have no problem using it. If you are that large, skip the small cylinder and concentrate on the medium and large cylinders with your exercises.

Try your best to use all three cylinders in accordance with the scheduled protocol posted in the Child Boards of the main forum. It is designed so that you obtain the maximum benefit from the vacuum therapy. At the same however, you should exercise caution is VED usage. You can do much harm to your penis and perhaps on a permanent basis if you overpump the pressure or do not use enough lube to let your penis slide easily up and down in any of the three cylinders.

Best to you and happy pumping.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackisback on August 01, 2008, 07:26:56 PM
I can get in the small one with proper lube, but I put the tube on my penis first, then connect the rest of the device. That way I can pour more lube down in on the other side of the tube so it's there when i pump up to an erection. Even having this tube on by itself can feel unpleasant though. I felt a little tingly in the head of my penis before I even put the pump on last night, when i just had an open tube on my penis.

What worries me about the small tube isn't that i'm abnormally large (i'm not), but the fact that the other day when I used the middle tube and pulled out and the tube came out of the vacuum instead of my penis out of the tube. I'm thinking that if my erection swells up big enough that the middle tube constricts it, then maybe it's not healthy if i get a natural erection (visual stimuli) while wearing the small tube, b/c that would be a lot of constriction on my penis.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 01, 2008, 11:39:06 PM
Jack,

I agree. If you are filling up the "middle" tube, then I think that should be your "small tube" and I would not use the smallest size at all.

Just my two cents worth.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 01, 2008, 11:42:09 PM
Jackisback:

I am thoroughly confused as to what you are doing with your VED. If you have a three cylinder VED as it sounds like, you are not assembling and using it right. When using all three cylinders as in Week 1 of the 26 week protocol, you should be nesting all three cylinders inside each other and attaching it to the pump before even trying to place it on your penis. Then you place the inserts into the mouth portion that fits over your penis.

Then and then only should you be putting lubricant either on your penis or into the VED. The best way to put lube in the assembled cylinders is to place it on your index finger and smooth it out all around the inner cylinder as far up into the cylinder as possible (some guys are using a baby bottle brush to put the lube in their VEDs). After lubing the VED inside, lubricate your penis well all over, but be careful to keep it off your scrotum. You can place a larger amount on and around the Head of your penis.

After lubing both the VED and your penis, start the VED down over the head of your penis and if necessary start slowly pumping a little vacuum to help pull the penis on into the cylinder. You may have to adjust the VED around on your shaft to get it to slide in better. Try to get the cylinder all the way down over your penis to your body so that you can get a better overall seal. But be careful not to use too high a pressure or you can do further damage to yourself.

It takes a bit of practice to learn how to get the best benefits from your VED. So, slow down, take a little longer to get used to the art of using a VED. It is not really difficult to use, you just have to use the right combination, etc. Try the method I have outline herein and you should see better results. If possible, try to refrain from getting a natural erection while using the VED as an erect penis just simply won't go into the small cylinder very well.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 01, 2008, 11:45:45 PM
Tim:

I fill the middle or medium cylinder too while using the VED, but I can still use the small cylinder as well. Refraining from getting an erection definitely helps with getting one's penis to slide into the small cylinder better.

However, without actually knowing the conditions Jack is experiencing we can only guess what he is doing wrong otherwise. So, he will just have to make any adjustments necessary to use his VED.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 02, 2008, 12:00:20 AM
Well, one thing doesn't make sense to me. On my cylinders, one cannot put lubricant in from the other end - so I am not sure what is meant by "That way I can pour more lube down in on the other side of the tube so it's there when i pump up to an erection".

I highly recommend using a bottle brush if using lubricant, or using a lot.

Secondly, if one is "loose" in the cylinder at the beginning of a session, the scrotum will suck in more easily than it will  later when one is fuller of blood. So, I deal with that by pumping part way, trying to hold my scrotum out with a couple of fingers, and doing some milking with the cylinder to pull blood in. This works, though it also pulls some scrotum in too. But as you start to get engorged, there is less room for scrotum at the base, and the shaft is fuller. I do this, followed by release of all pressure, and then repumping - usually for 5-10 mini sessions (each cycle takes about 15 seconds). This gradually gets me fuller of blood - but it is not a "real erection", in that I am not straining hard. When you are nearly full, then it is easier to hold the scrotum out, and to pump to a higher pressure and to disconnect the pump for a little bit (for me, I let it sit for a few minutes - others like to release, and re-tighten without really coming all the way out).

I do this in the tub, with lots of soap - it does not and should not hurt at all. As I have mentioned before, when I do this, the length of my penis, fully pumped, is longer after this warmup period than it is - at the same pressure - right off the bat.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackisback on August 03, 2008, 02:48:40 AM
Tim: since you weren't sure about the cylinder i'll try to explain. I take my smallest cylinder and lube it up and insert my penis in. Then I take my VED which already has the large and medium cylinders attached and insert my small cylinder (and my penis) into that (into the middle cylinder that is). Then I pump and that way I can get more lube in there.

OM: Do you really think that this is unsafe in any way? I don't see how. Seems like the vacuum pressure is not harmful in this way.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 03, 2008, 07:55:28 AM
Jackisback:

Yes, it is not correct to use the VED like that. You should assemble the entire unit prior to using it. This will prevent any possibility of bending or curving your penis while trying to place the other cylinders and pump over the small cylinder. This could cause trauma or damage to the penis. You can get enough lube into the small cylinder when assembled this way by siimply using your forefinger and applying it that way. Then you can add more lube to the head of your penis when inserting it into the small cylinder. Applying vacuum while doing this can and will aid in sliding the shaft into the cylinder.

Read the enclosed brochure that came with the VED when you purchased it. Based on where you bought your VED it may or may not have a brochure with it. So, use the method of completely assembling the VED before using it.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's and supplements ... "optimum therapy" ...
Post by: George999 on August 03, 2008, 03:54:59 PM
Quote from: CHRISTODOULOU on July 30, 2008, 05:33:12 PM

Hi Old Man

I trust you are well

My brother asks if it is necessary or advisable to take vitamin D while doing Soma therapy which leads me on to ask your opinion on combined treatments as per Ticker's approach posted on: July 23, 2008, 10:06:14 AM

Is the advised optimum treatment for Peyronies actually a combined treatment approach of Soma/VED therapy and something else and if so what is it?

Thanks

Christodoulou

Welcome Chistodoulou!  Thanks for the PM alerting me to this issue.  I usually don't follow the VED thread and so would have missed this without your PM.  I am delighted to have the opportunity to respond to your question.  First of all, Vitamin D is really not directly helpful for Peyronies.  It is helpful in terms of immune system issues and is a great supplement that I recommend everyone take.  But it has no direct bearing on Peyronies.  Secondly, any approach to treating Peyronies is going to be a long process.  Certainly two months is not enough time to show recognizable results, especially in long established cases.  Thus you pretty much have to know in advance what works and what doesn't.  Those things most likely to bring the best results are the VED which your brother is already using, High Gamma Vitamin E, and Acetyl L Carnitine.  These can be used together.  Additionally, THE BEST oral treatment for Peyronies is Pentoxifylline, if he can get a prescription for it.  It can also be used with the others above.  The more one can push back on the inflammation that fuels Peyronies, the better the results will be.  But longstanding cases of deformity may be difficult or even impossible to resolve.  But if anything can work in those cases, it will be some combination of the VED and oral supplements listed above.  - George
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: CHRISTODOULOU on August 03, 2008, 06:15:28 PM
Hi George

Thank you for replying, like Old Man, promptly and comprehensively as best you can. It apears that the best 'cure' for Peyronies is the right VED, proper using technique, patience and depending on what works best for the individual, any one, two or all of the following: High Gamma Vitamin E, Acetyl L Carnitine and Pentoxifylline

I trust this is accurate?!?

Will relay to brother

Thank you so much for helping

Christodoulou
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 03, 2008, 06:47:50 PM
Jack,

What you described doesn't make sense to me - I do not have one of the Obsonn units, so maybe it is a gap i my imagination!

I think that you should generously lubricate the penis and tube, then start to pump up. I tend to pump and release a lot at first to gradually draw in blood and get hard-ish, but to then  get a good seal and pump up to a final pressure. That avoids tugging on the skin (painful) and avoids getting scrotum caught.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Toby on August 04, 2008, 10:42:30 PM
Old Man: Thanks for the info. Placing lubricant on the 2 sizing inserts did the trick. I am now getting a great vacuum, and can do the exercises in 10 to 15 minutes. What a switch from before. It was a real drag. Thanks again .
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackisback on August 04, 2008, 11:56:12 PM
I think that I need to try to keep a daily diary of this stuff to see what helps. I keep trying to take a week off the VED, but it's so difficult b/c i believe it's helped many others. I think that maybe I overpump because typically i must pump a lot for the further half of my penis to get hard. I just pumped and I accidentally got a natural erection, so even with just 2-3 pumps I'm hurting now (in the smallest chamber). Yeah, I definitely need to take a week off.  Then I'll come back reallllllly slow. To the point that I just think i'm wasting my time at first. Old Man, I do want to do it your way, I know you've helped many and I appreciate all your educating us.

But the crazy thing for me now is that my plaque is getting bigger and harder, but my erections are getting stronger. I should include that I used the biggest chamber the other day (which makes the most sense to me b/c the pressure could directly affect the plaque it seems and also, it seems it's always been said that it's not safe to simply bend a peyronie's penis the opposite direction which is essentially what the smaller tubes do.

Another thing that I think is helping me (other than general health and fitness) is something called deep stretching. It's when you sit on the floor and spread your legs and have a partner who is sitting down opposite you, put his or her feet on your ankles and force you (SLOWLY) to spread your legs. As long as you are properly warmed up and stretch before you can go very far before you hurt yourself. But go easy when you first start (as with everything of course).

*Also, I massage my plaques a lot, not sure what effect this could have.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 05, 2008, 07:32:58 AM
Toby:

You are welcome! The smallest item sometimes proves to be the best when one has a problem. Glad to be of help. I must again recommend to all using the VED therapy to first spend some time reading all the information about its use before putting it in service.

And, if a video comes with the unit, view it first.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 05, 2008, 07:39:38 AM
Jack:

Again, I would like to strongly suggest that you work very slowly and not use too much vacuum pressure while using the VED. Over pumping can and will cause further damage and unwelcome side effects.

Like I said in earlier posts, be sure that you assemble the VED correctly and use all three cylinders when the VED protocol states using all three. You must stay strictly to the schedule and not modify it unless is is entirely necessary due to some physical problem. There are only a very small number of men who just simply can't use the small cylinder due to their large penis size.

Changing the schedule and protocol of the 26 week course can only lead to problems if not used properly.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: kinoast on August 06, 2008, 02:53:58 AM
Old man et al:

Kinoast/Damian here with a check-in and a question.

I've been practicing on occasion with the Augusta/Fitzz three cylinder model I purchased a month ago.  I haven't really begun the regular regimine, as I had a big of soreness and pain and I thought I'd give my unit a bit of time to heal before starting in.

Now that it's feeling a bit better--I'm ready, I believe.

The one thing that concerns me is the effectiveness of the smallest cylinder.  As I understand it, it's supposed to encourage maximum length expansion while restraining the sides of the penis.  As I've mentioned before (to my chagrin) I'm a smallish-guy.  I don't think the sides of my penis are restrained by the small cylinder when using the VED, so I'm worried about not getting the full lengthening effect.  It's hard to tell, sensation-wise and I can't really see what's fully going on in there when using the thing.

Should I make my own smaller-diametered cylinder?  Would it work with the unit if I did?

Thanks for any input.  I'm curious if any other, uh, less-generously endowed guys have had any success with this program.  I'd hate to think that it just won't work for me.

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on August 06, 2008, 08:24:56 AM
Kinoast:

I think you will have to make a 1.25" i.d. cylinder to get the pulling power you need...It works for me well..locate a 8" piece of acrylic tubing locally and take it to Ace Hdw..I told the guy I was doing a "science experiment for my grandson" when he asked me what I was making..and I wanted to cap the tubing and install a 1.25" hose barb in the endcap..#16 Weldon adhesive will bond the PVC cap to the tubing..cost was about $16..I bought a brake bleeder pump at Harbor Freight for about $30..the hole for the barb is 5/16"..you will need to drill that..and sand the opening of the cylinder to get it smooth..

If you need more info, post or p/m..Angus builds his own cylinders and so does Terryd..

Good luck,

crank
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on August 07, 2008, 09:06:51 AM
Kinoast,

I have a similar problem with being small to begin with and now with Peyronies Disease, the problem is even worse. In any event, the C cylinder (large one) is kind of like the proverbial "BB in a box car" and I see little help from it. Even with the A cylinder, I do not completely fill it and have to rely on pressure against the pubic area to effect a seal.

In any case, I have been using the 3 cylinder system and 26 week protocol for about 4 to 6 weeks and can say that I am seeing some improvement. I did not bother to make pre and post measurements, but do find that qualitatively, I am improving. My wife says so too, but she is very gracious about the whole matter and strives to encourage me all possible.

I am using the Augusta unit and would like to find a cylinder that is between the B and C sizes. Not being very handy, it would be a challenge for me to make one, but that might be what needs to happen.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: kinoast on August 08, 2008, 01:28:17 AM
seaside2 & crank,

Thanks for the info and recommendations.  It's a bite in the shorts to have to shell out more money for a smaller tube after buying the Augusta unit, but whatever has to happen...

Crank, I may end up following your instructions and buying a separate pump and constructing the smaller cylinder, but I was hoping to find a solution that would work with the Augusta pump.  I'm somewhat handy, so I might tinker a bit, but I'm just curious if anyone else reading this has found a way to integrate a smaller diameter, homemade or bought cylinder with the Augusta unit?

And one questions about the A or small cylinder--is the idea that when you're using it, the sides of your penis should be in contact with both sides of the cylinder in order to pull the head as far as possible down into the tube?  If so, I guess it would be best to get the right diameter then.  So much for "one size fits all".
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: kinoast on August 08, 2008, 01:30:23 AM
Oh and crank... what do you use at the bottom of your constructed cylinder to get a good (and comfortable) seal at the base?  The idea of ramming a tube of acrylic into my scrotum and pelvis isn't too appealing.  Any kind of rubber seal?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crank on August 08, 2008, 07:19:15 AM
Kinoast:

I use a light coating of vaseline to get a seal..I think I got that from the child's board..it works well..and the tubing end is sanded and rounded..no problem there..

Angus and Old Man posted on #1536 and #1535 about neutralizing negative pressure to prevent the cylinders from pushing backwards into the groin area..that really works well..you can try that..

Maybe some members will have some info in getting a smaller tube for the Augusta model..I don't know about it..that would simplify things.

The smallest cylinder A should seal  the head and pull the rod into it..that requires a complete seal to get max stretch..I can't get that with the 1.50" cylinder..it is my medium B and 1.75" is my large C..

Hope you can get some info on smaller tubes for the Augusta..

crank
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 08, 2008, 08:50:48 PM
kinoast:

Have been off the forum for a few days. Read your post about the size of the A small cylinder being too small. There are only a few men who do not fit well in the A cylinder. Before making another one or buying another smaller one, try this first. When you are using all three cylinders make sure that you are using both sizing inserts in the assy. Have had PMs from several guys who were only using the large sizing insert and could not get a good tight seal.

Make sure that you are assembling the unit correctly and using enough lubricant to get a seal around the base of the VED when placing it over your shaft and on down to your body. After you have gotten the cylinder(s) down to your body, move or sort of wiggle the VED around to help the lube get covered well on your skin and the inserts. Another thing that I had to do was to shave off the pubic hair around the base of my shaft to keep the hair from letting the seal leak. I shave every few days to help with the seal. It is worth trying since you have laid out good money for the VED.

Let me know if there is anything I can help to get you able to use the VED. If all else fails and you want to try and get a smaller cylinder from Augusta, go line to this site: www.augustams.com and ask for the technical department and get a technician to help you. You can also call them at the number listed on their web site if you want to talk in person.

Old Man
Title: Ramming Avoidance
Post by: Angus on August 09, 2008, 10:18:47 AM

   The acrylic VED tube I made long ago has a soft piece of vinyl tubing siliconed to it for comfort. It is a very comfortable tube to use. I sanded and smoothed the "entry end" of the tube but was still not what I wanted. I got a piece of soft, clear vinyl tubing about 1/2 inch in diameter and long enough to reach around the circumference of the tube opening. I split the viny tubing length-wise with scissors, filled the vinyl tubing with silicone then forced the split onto the mouth of the acrylic tube. It makes a pretty comfortable set up and I've never had any trouble with it. Also, the smaller "mouth" created in the acrylic tube keeps scrotums out of the tube quite well, which is fine by me.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackisback on August 10, 2008, 07:46:10 PM
Hi, I'm curious what effect people have noticed from VED use with protruding penile veins? I have one protruding vein lengthwise on my right side (side w/ my scar), and the other day I used the large tube, but then I noticed that my protruding vein was protruding a HUGE amount and actually sticking to the tube. It was sick. Keep in mind that I had no pain at any time before, during, or after my pump, and I wasn't even at full erection then in the tube.  Could this be a dangerous thing to watch out for? Kind of scares me, esp since i'm taking Vitamin E.  I'll definitely be watching for that next time I use the large tube.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 10, 2008, 10:35:02 PM
Jackisback:

You should have no problems with protruding veins when using a VED if you do not overpump the vacuum pressure. This is one of the reasons that caution has been advised in many posts on the forum. Extreme caution should be exercised at all times when using a VED whether or not it is being used for ED or Peyronies Disease. Too much pressure can and will cause problems.

You mentioned that the vein was sticking to the inside wall of the cylinder. This should not cause a problem if you are using enough lubricant so that your shaft slips easily up and down the cylinder walls while pumping up and releasing. Some guys have reported slight irritation to the skin on their shafts due to lack of lubricant, so use plenty.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: kinoast on August 12, 2008, 12:01:09 AM
Old Man,

My concern with needing a smaller "A" tube is not so much over getting a good seal, which I can (sometimes) with a bit of effort (using both sizing inserts), as much as that the smallest tube isn't giving me a lot of length-pull because I'm not filling it up to the sides.  Isn't the idea that your rod should be touching the sides of the tube, so that the vacuum force pulls it as far as it can lengthwise?  I'm not sure that I'm really accomplishing this with the smallest tube as there is a bit of "breathing space" around.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackisback on August 12, 2008, 12:14:52 AM
Thanks OM, good to know. There was plenty of lube, just seeing the vein pulled out like that scared me, esp. with the vitamin E I'm taking. I'm worried that something could suddenly burst with no warning, so yeah i'll be using great caution.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: beginer on August 12, 2008, 12:47:29 AM
hello all, this is my first post I am a new member I, ten days ago noticed a small dent on the left side and a new curvature, I have always been straight it just appeared I guess after a recent sexual encounter I didn't think was that rough. Anyways I am 29 years old, I think I am starting to see another formation at the top right, and maybe even a bb looking bumb, is this common and is there a chance my bend with get worse and/ or other bends will develop?

It appears from everything I've read which is a lot over the last couple of days the VED is one of the only procedures that positive results have occured, is this true for most?

Also is it anyones experience or knowledge that this does go away naturally or is that just a fairy tale?

Thanks any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

B
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on August 14, 2008, 04:50:05 AM
Old Man
After 2 weeks off the VED >< while in the hospital and recouping (See the Surgery Board).
Any way I got enough strength back to start the VED again. At first i thought I had lost all that I had gained over the past several months. At the end of the second secion I began to see a come back. And now after the 3rd session almost back to where I left off.
Dr's have me on Warfin now so I am real careful not to cause any problems. Have rescheduled implant surgery to 10/30/08 at Vanderbilt.
Murphy's Law is sure kicking me in the butt but I am determined to seccued.
Keep up the word on the VED. It works.
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 14, 2008, 11:52:12 AM
jackp:

Many thanks for you posting on the ability of VED therapy. Keep up the good work and keep us informed how things are going for you.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackisback on August 14, 2008, 11:34:55 PM
I keep getting a natural erection (one that doesn't deflate when I press the button to release) when I use my VED. It's a good problem to have, I know. However, it makes the VED tricky.  But I was thinking: if I get myself sealed into the tube, and then get a natural erection, it should have the same effect as the pump, because getting erection will make my penis much bigger and therefore the air pressure inside the tube would be greater!  By this logic, getting the erection would still be beneficial, which is good because once I get the erection, even one extra pump is too much, and causes discomfort. Does this make sense to anyone that getting hard inside the tube could still produce the same Peyronie's benefits as pumping?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 15, 2008, 10:06:07 AM
jackisback:

Since we on the forum do not have access to look at your individual situation about getting erections naturally while using the VED, we cannot give you any guidance on what to do. This is a rare occasion for most of us due to our age and other factors.

You should use your best judgment about what to do since you say your erections do not go down after pushing the release button. Just don't overpump to the point that you cannot get the VED off your penis after each exercise session.

Really, I know of nothing to help you with in this case. You will just have to experiment with various ways of using the VED using less pressure, etc.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 15, 2008, 02:49:49 PM
sgtnick:

Wow, a lot of good questions. Yes, most of them are answered in other parts of the forum. However, they may be a bit hard to figure out. So, I will try to help you with the answers.

Yes, the VEDs do come with instructions, but they are not always relative to Peyronies Disease usage. They are usually prescribed by uros for ED rather than Peyronies Disease as most uros have not yet been acclimated to the benefit they provide.

There are sources of VEDs that do not require an RX.  Go on line to: www.fitzz.com  This site has a medical quality VED for $229.99 with free shipping and handling, at least the last time I accessed the site. It is listed as the Vitality OTC manual model made by Augusta Medical Systems, Augusta, GA. This Fitzz company does not require an RX as it is an over the counter model unit.

All VEDs are not alike. Some are of adult sex toy quality and are not very durable. It is recommended that one purchase a good medical quality such as listed above. It has been shown to be well worth its cost by many including myself. It is a three cylinder manual model VED that allows the user to more effectively control the vacuum pressure. It can be used with only hand after assembly.

OK, (if jackisback does not mind this), he is still very young and has no problems with getting natural erections. Since the VED can and will in most cases produce an induced erection, it can and will enhance one getting natural erections if one still has that ability. A lot of us older guys can no longer get a natural erection for one reason or another and the VED serves very well as an aid for them. So, jackisback has a minor problem in that he gets natural erections by just simply starting to use the VED. I am working with to help with that situation. (Hopefully, jack)

As I said, most of your questions are answered elsewhere among the threads including the VED section. There are two 26 week protocols listed in the VED thread section of the Childs Board. One is for the purchased three cylinder model VEDs as described above, and the other is for those who have made their own VEDs by making three separate units based on their own sizes, etc. Both are somewhat explanatory, but we can answer any questions that arise from using the protocols.

Hopefully, the ramblings above have helped with your questions, but if you have anything further, feel free to ask in a PM or on the forum. We are all here to help. I am sure you will get other answers too.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackisback on August 15, 2008, 10:49:36 PM
No offense taken OM, I've been slightly retarded in figuring this thing out. Nick, you'll probably have a lot less trouble than me, I'm not sure why I'm having such a difficult time getting the hang of it.

I will take exception to one thing though: i do have trouble with natural erections. A LOT of trouble for a 22 yr old male. I'm just fortunately starting to gain that ability back in a way I haven't had it before! It's still not like it used to be, but it's a hell of a lot better than it was. One of the factors in this could very likely be VED use, as my results have been inconsistent, but the first few times I used it really did something! There are many other things that could have contributed which I have listed in probably too much detail.

Don't let my comments scare you, and as much as I would not like to admit it, most people who know me would say that I tend to over think things. Still VED use should be done with great caution, but if you have Peyronie's I'd say definitely get one! But you might try to get one with a gauge, I wish I had one. Also, urologists I believe are actually open to VED use, so you could probably get one for insurance purposes. I bought mine from Fitzz, and when I told my uro he said he had "no problem" with VED use (though you can see certainly did not endorse or show faith in it as a Peyronie's treatment). The instructions in the VED I actually did find to be inadequate, and they do not feature instructions for "exercises" for people with Peyronie's. In fact, I think they have to watch what they say about Peyronie's for legal purposes, and my instructions said something like talk to a urologist before using if you have Peyronie's.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 16, 2008, 12:02:39 AM
jackisback:

The reason there are no instructions for Peyronies Disease use with the Augusta Vitality OTC VED included with it is that the unit is not approved by FDA for Peyronies Disease use. It is marketed solely for ED usage and therefore the instructions cannot be included.

The protocols that are listed in the VED section of the Child Boards under the VED topic are the ones that were originally published with the Old Soma Correct VED that was sold by Augusta for Peyronies Disease. FDA made them remove it from the market due to technical difficulties, etc.

Two protocols are listed, one for the three cylinder purchased model VEDs and one for the home made three separate unit cylinder VEDs that are not nested inside each other like the bought units.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on August 16, 2008, 12:48:35 AM
OLDMAN - im finding that i get more benefit from using cylindar a and b and c is a wast of time - can i just use cylinder a one week and cylindar b the following week and follow this regime - is it 100% necessary to keep to our posted regime??
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 16, 2008, 10:07:55 AM
Iceman, I gave up on the full protocol a long time ago. I now use the small cylinder for maximal longitudinal stretching, and the "B" cylinder only every two weeks or so. It works for me to keep things relatively straight(er) than it used to be. Problems with the scrotum pulling into the cylinder limited the value of the largest cylinder (though I use it with a silicone sleeve at times too - in which case it works well.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 16, 2008, 05:59:50 PM
Iceman:

There are many ways that a VED can be successfully used in therapy for Peyronies Disease. Check your PM for my more personal answer to you.

Old Man
Title: Small cylinder
Post by: Angus on August 17, 2008, 12:41:53 AM
   Re: icemans question. I too use the smallest cyinder for maintenance these days. I also like the lengthwise stretching that it does. For maintenance I rarely fire up the medium and large cylinders, although I'd say they might have a benefit if I did; I'm not sure... but I'm pleased with the small cylinder at this time for maintenance.
   For clarity, when I refer to maintenance, I mean using the small cylinder VED a few times a week to maintain the correction that I achieved with using the full protocol for approximately 18 months (45 degree curve down to 10 or less degrees).
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on August 17, 2008, 01:19:13 AM
Tim 468:

Has the VED been of any benefit to you and if so what was the benefit and over what time period??

Thx
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackisback on August 17, 2008, 05:37:12 PM
Question for everyone who uses VED:

Just curious, do most of you use the VED while standing or while sitting or lying down. For some reason I've been under the impression that standing is the most beneficial since it is most difficult for me to obtain and maintain a natural erection while standing up.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Mick on August 17, 2008, 09:18:29 PM
I have tried lying down, but I normally do in sitting.

Mick
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices--Best position to use them
Post by: Old Man on August 17, 2008, 10:02:22 PM
To all:

The best position for using the VED is standing. I am told by my uro that the body produces more natural blood flow to the penis while standing and therefore the penis can receive more. Based on my experience using them standing, sitting and even lying down, I find it works best by standing.

Also, I use all three cylinders when using the VED for maintenance of what I have gained through its use. That is, one session, I use all three nested, another session using B and C (medium and large) and another session using the C (large) cylinder. This gives me an overall vacuum pull with varying amounts of pressure during each individual therapy session.

Old Man
Title: Standing
Post by: Angus on August 17, 2008, 10:12:46 PM

    Best position for me is standing for the VED. Things are just in a better position for me this way. I know others have used the VED lying down, and I did this long ago. I know lying down or in a reclined postion works for some and certainly can't do any harm as long as one has total control over the tube and pump. Of course you should have total control of the VED device no matter what postion you choose. 
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 18, 2008, 11:47:42 AM
Two quick answers to questions.

I use it lying down in the bathtub. It is harder to get gradually "pumped up" that way, but I am less likely to get hard fast and be unable to really use the narrowest tube. Since I like to soak in hot water and use soap, this is easiest for me.

The VED has helped me, I am certain of that. It has not fixed me. Instead it has reduced a bit the dorsal curvature I have, and slowed progression of my lateral curve at a time when it seems intent on getting worse. This is not science, but I do make note of the fact that when I left on vacation and did not take it, immediately lost ground and found it impossible to gain it back (especially for the lateral curve which is what is trying to get worse right now).

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on August 18, 2008, 12:11:37 PM
Tim468
I was in the hospital from 7/27 through 8/12 and was very weak when I came home so no VED for almost 2.5 weeks.
When I got the courage to first look I said OMG I have lost everything I gained on the VED and them some.
Started back slowly and last night I was almost back to where I was  before the accident. I expect in the next couple of days to get all back I had gained.
The VED has been a life saver for me, waiting on an implant that had to be postponed again to 10/30.
Dr. at Vanderbilt said VED therapy was good and keep it up until the day before the implant surgery.
Old Man got me on the right course last October and I will forever be thankful to him.
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on August 18, 2008, 02:10:11 PM
I'm still using the VED pretty much daily.

I find I can get a good vacuum going more easily if I start the session standing up. But I try to do much longer sessions than I used to ( between 20 and 30 minutes ), which is a long time to stay standing up. So once I've got a good vacuum established I sit down for the rest of the session, and I find that works OK.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bodoo2u on August 18, 2008, 03:42:03 PM
Can anyone post a picture of the cylinder seal that a lot of forum members mention here. I'm thinking that it might be something to prevent the VED from pressing against the area surrounding my penis. I'm experiencing some pain in the area below my penis. I think it's some kind of nerve, because when I sit down on a bicycle seat I can't stay there for long.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 18, 2008, 08:26:46 PM
bodoo2:

What model VED are you using? If you are using the Vitality OTC three cylinder manual model from Augusta Medical you should have gotten two inserts with the unit. Both are used when using all three cylinder together that it prevents the scrotum from being pulled up into the cylinder assy. You use only one insert when using the large outer cylinder of the Vitality model unless your size needs them both.

Let us know which unit you are using and maybe someone can give you a suggestion about getting another type seal, etc.

In the meantime, lubricate the inserts just enough to cause them to become kind of "sticky" when pumping. The lube does help get a better seal. Also, another thing that most of us have to do it shave of the pubic hair around the base of the penile shaft so that the insert mates up to bare skin instead of the hair. I found this to be a great help in getting a good seal as well as helping with the cushioning effect of the insert.

Using too high a pressure can and will cause pain in the groin area too, so be careful with the pressure.  Will be glad to help in any way with your problem, just let us know.

Old Man
Title: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bodoo2u on August 18, 2008, 09:47:21 PM
Thanks OM,

I'm using a model I bought from BostonPump.com. I'm not sure if the inserts would even work with my model.

Bodoo
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 18, 2008, 11:16:06 PM
bodoo2:

I believe that Tim 468 might be able to help you with this problem. Think that he bought his VED materials from that company or one similar to it.

Maybe he will post and let you know where you might get inserts to fit the cylinder you have. I am sure that there are some on the market somewhere.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 18, 2008, 11:21:26 PM
Boston Pump builds an insert - it is where I got mine!

http://www.bostonpump.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=22

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on August 21, 2008, 09:36:47 AM
I find that the best results are standing up or leaning against the counter top in the bath (Kind of like a bar stool position). I tried using it initially lying in bed, watching TV, but this was not particularly successful.

BTW, I was off the VED for about a week and found that when I returned, I had lost virtually all of what I had gained. At the same time, as soon as I started again, I could see more rapid results. I suspect that the VED and I are life long partners, which is OK by me.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 21, 2008, 10:02:20 AM
seaside2:

Yes, I would agree with you that VED should become a partner in one's penile health, especially as we get older. Got my first one way back in 1995 and after it helped me over a bad case Peyronies Disease, I continue using it about three times a week just for maintenance.

Inactivity of the erectile tissue in one's penis will allow it to become "lazy" real soon after ceasing the vacuum therapy. Its use several times a week is a very small price to pay for the major benefits it provides one in sexual health as well the ability to have somewhat of a normal sex life again.

In an earlier post somewhere on the forum, I mentioned that standing up while using the VED does a much better job of getting a good blood flow to one's penis. This is especially true in severe cases of Peyronies Disease and ED. IMHO, it is the better way to go when pumping up.

Keep up the pumping on a regular basis and you will not regret it over the long haul.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: wayne999 on August 21, 2008, 10:18:14 AM
Can I put forward the idea that when you stop using your VED for some short period of time, the only reason you see any gains lost is because your penis is going to its actual "normal" state? i.e. the VED might give you curvature/length/girth etc gains but when you stop it for a while your body reverts to normal? If it didn't revert to normal, why wouldn't these VED's be used by every 2nd male on the planet for size enhanement ??
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 21, 2008, 04:03:56 PM
wayne999:

I don't believe that you will find a post by anyone on this forum where they claim permanent enhancement of their penises. The VED therapy is used for making one's penis more healthy and for correction of Peyronies Disease symptoms. You are right, the penis can never be forced to any size other than what you brought to the table. However, once the Peyronies Disease is handled to a state that is tolerable, the VED is continued to be used to keep what you have gained by its use.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 21, 2008, 05:58:37 PM
sgtnick:

WOW, don't have the surgery!!! There is help for using a VED. Once you know the basics of how it is done, it is a piece of cake to do. Besides if you have the surgery, you would have trouble with the release valve the docs would have to put in just to urinate.

If you have questions about how to use your VED, just ask away and we can and will help guide through the steps.

Yes, you are right, we will jump through hoops to just even get an erection. But, again that is a gift that most of us take for granted until we lose the ability. So, don't despair, let us know how we can help there can be light at the end of the crooked (no pun intended) tunnel.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on August 21, 2008, 06:46:08 PM
Old Man
After spending 9 days in the hospital,and nearly dying, it was several days before I could get back to the VED.
My first impression was OMG where did it go! So I started back slowly and after about 4 days was almost back to where I left off. A couple of days later I had regained all I had before my accident.
You guys on VED therapy, Keep It Going. A penis is a terrible thing to loose.
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 21, 2008, 10:56:53 PM
sgtnick:

Sounds like that you have done what in the business world is called "over shopped". Yes, the VED does work for a great number of guys. It is not all that hard to master. You just have to practice a bit with the right VED method.

Please do not give up on it so soon. You have too much to lose by not sticking with the program. It really does not take very much effort to get the hang of using a VED. All the chatter pros and cons on this forum does get confusing at times. However, the guys that fail with the VED are few and far between.

If you will answer my PM to you early today and let's try to get the help you must need based on your post below. You owe it to yourself to at least try one more time. And, try your best to stay with this forum to get the best help anywhere for Peyronies Disease as well as ED.

Old Man

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices Purpose of VED usage
Post by: Old Man on August 22, 2008, 10:40:57 AM
sgtnick:

Yes, you have asked the basic usual questions about VED usage. It was originally developed only for erectile dysfunction for guys who had difficulty in achieving erections of any kind. Even after using the three best known erectile dysfunction drugs, they still could not achieve erections satisfactory enough for sexual intercourse. So, the VED can into being. Later on, after much experimentation on many guys parts, the VED was realized to be a good tool for Peyronies Disease therapy. So, to answer your questions I will list them by number in the order you listed them below.

1. The purpose of the three cylinders is to provide the maximum amount of therapy for Peyronies Disease. The small cylinder is designed to give the maximum amount of confinement of the penis so that it will be pulled into its longest position based on the amount of vacuum used, but not to the point of pain or discomfort. In the early stages of using the smallest cylinder, one must be careful to use plenty of lube to provide a better sliding effect of the cylinders over the penile shaft - more on this later. To give the maximum amount of stretch in length, the penis must be pulled out from the body, hence the small cylinder, etc.

2. OK, they work together as a "nested" set when using all three. You have to insert the B inside the C and the A inside the B when the protocol calls for using the A cylinder. The protocol that is posted on the VED section of the Child Boards section lists two protocols, one for the home made separate complete cylinder models and one for the purchased 3 "nested" type VED models. I assume that you purchased the 3 cylinder model that has been listed on this forum. So, all three cylinders must be assembled as stated to work with the A small cylinder.

3. Water soluble lubricant has been shown to be the best lube so clean up of the VED is much easier. Grease/petroleum based lubes are very messy, do not provided as good a slippery condition and require much time in clean up. So, most of us use the water based lubes. Other lubes can be used, some guys using shaving cream lotions, mild soap and similar preparations. I do not recommend using any of them since they can and will cause irritation to most guys. Remember, we are dealing with the most tenderest part of our bodies here!

4. The 26 week protocol posted in the Child Boards has some footnotes that give instructions about times, number of cycles and other information. The time one uses the VED for each session is based on how well one tolerates the vacuum pressure and whether or not they have pain or discomfort with extended periods of exercise time. So, use your best judgment about the time limit and how many cycles you use. The protocol is designed around using the VED therapy on a daily basis. Some guys prefer to use two sessions per day, but with a shorter period of time. I use a 20 minute session when using the VED now just for maintenance of what I have gained. If you use only one session per day, I would suggest not more than 20 to 25 minutes each session (Based on how much time you have, etc.) Above all, do not overpump the vacuum pressure at any time. Look up the protocol and follow it. If you have questions about any portion of it, just let us know and we can help.

5. The basic purpose of using the VED for Peyronies Disease therapy is to exercise the erectile tissue and tunica covering to help stretch it back to somewhat of its original size and shape. Keep in mind though that after the curve/bend occurs, the plaque appears along with nodules sometimes, they just simply cannot be returned to their highest level as before Peyronies Disease. It can and will help with Peyronies Disease systems in about 90% of the time. There are, as far as I know, no known studies about this percentage. It is based on my experience helping others with a local cancer support and Peyronies Disease group. The guys in the group report their condition and we compare notes on all of our results from VED usage.

6. The best overall position for use of the VED is in the standing position. Other positions can be used if they work well for one. However, according to my uro, the best position is standing since better blood flow is accomplished while standing. In other words, the blood is kept in the lower part of our bodies longer while standing. This provides a lot more flow than any other position. Lying down does not give as much according to her statement. So, you have to practice using the VED using various positions to determine the best for you.

Bottom line of all the above in my opinion is that using the VED can and will help is most cases so Peyronies Disease. There is nothing to lose by using
the VED therapy. At least, its use does give the penis a better chance of remaining more healthy. Its use replaces the nocturnal erections for those who no longer get them due to the Peyronies Disease symptoms.

Hopefully, the above clears up at least some of your questions. If not, just let me know and we can go further, etc. You must practice using the VED to determine the best overall situation for you. Good luck to you!

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on August 22, 2008, 01:03:36 PM
sgtnic,

I hear your confusion (to paraphrase Slick Willie Clinton). I was somewhat confused by all the descriptions, pros/cons, etc on this and other sources. Once I broke down and bought the thing, it DID take me a few days to figure it out. Now it is just automatic, like taking a shower, shaving. Just think if we each described the methods, materials, outcomes, consequences of something as simple as shaving. Boy, would that be a mess!!!

In my case, the Peyronies Disease has stabilized, the length and girth dramatically reduced, the curve not too horrible and erections were few and far between. The VED is not the do all/save all, but it is the best thing I've found and I intend to keep on keeping on. It is not a sex toy, we do not use it as "foreplay". It does help penis health, no doubt. Also, as I posted earlier, it has helped reduce my dependence on Flomax. I strongly suspect that the fibrosis of Peyronies Disease affects my urinary tract and the VED opens it up. Even my euro says my prostate is not swollen, but put me on Flomax to ease the urinary discomfort. Flomax has many negative side effects, IMO. So there can be other positive side effects of VED.

Try it, you'll like it!!!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices-overshopping
Post by: Old Man on August 22, 2008, 02:15:03 PM
sgtnick:

What I meant by overshopping is that you may have read so much about using the VED that it became confusing. Relating this term to buying a car it simply means that one looked at way too many vehicles to decide on the right one. Reading too much about VED usage where there are so many differing opinions about their ability to assist in Peyronies Disease therapy can become quite confusing. There is only one goal in VED usage and that is too help get rid or at least reduce the severity of the symptoms. The VED also can and will give one the best erection they ever had if properly used and the right restrictor ring applied if one is required due to ED.

So do some more research on the forum about VED usage before deciding to give it up. As seaside2 says it has helped him and quite a number of others on and off this forum. I know what it did for me even before the three cylinder model VEDs came on the market. Be sure to learn how to correctly use the VED and practice with it until it becomes second nature.

So, again, we urge you to keep your faith that something good can come from VED usage. Keeping a positive attitude about this disease can work wonders for one's well being.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackisback on August 24, 2008, 12:46:58 AM
Ok, I will now add to the confusion since I am the resident can't-figure-out-how-to-use-the-VED-person.

I think that my VED is not holding its airtight seal as well as before, and I base it on this:

When I'm pumping up, I can see my penis very slowly deflate in the chamber.......I think that this is a problem because if I'm pumping under Peyronie's guidelines, I've got to pump to a certain level and then hold. If I have even a tiny leak, then it seems to me that it would make it easier to overpump actually, because I could just be overpumped for a second or two and not have a chance to have enough pain to realize I'm clearly overpumped. Whereas, I have noticed in the past that sometimes I can pump up to a certain point, only to feel the discomfort (which of course tells me i've pumped too far) after holding for about five seconds.

I ordered a new rubber O ring for my pump from Augusta, but I don't think this has solved the problem.  Will use a few more times to make sure though.

How about everybody else? Do you typically pump and see your penis deflate? I'm thinking that if any part of my erection becomes natural bloodflow and not pressure, then this could account for some deflating in the tube as the natural part of the erection dies (or is this a fundamental misunderstanding of the physics of the blood in the penis in the chamber?).

I think probably something is wrong with one of the tubes or something, and I'll just buy a new one.  $225 ain't cheap, but I don't want to wait two weeks to mail my thing in, then get it mailed back to me.  And since VEDs are made for getting erections, not for Peyronie's disease, I can't think that my unit likely has a leak so great that they will determine it to be malfunctional. I'll probably just get a new one and be a little more careful with the tubes.


Can anyone advise on which units they have used they have noticed the greatest ability to maintain the erection completely while inside the tube without dying down at all for the 10 second intervals?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 24, 2008, 09:33:59 AM
jackisback:

Whoa man, slow down a bit. Your VED losing vacuum pressure is surely caused by some leak source. You should examine all the mating surfaces and cylinders to see if there is a chipped surface or a small crack or other malady. Also, make sure that you are assembling the cylinder correctly inside the larger cylinder.

The A and B cylinders have a little tab that keeps them separated from each other on the end where the sizing insert(s) are used. Make sure that these tabs are still intact and not broken off. If you have for any reason dropped the cylinders, inspect them for chips and/or cracks too. Any small chip or crack can and will cause vacuum leakage.

There are things that can go wrong with these units, so make sure that you have checked everything out first, then make sure you are assembling them correctly. Use each cylinder separately, especially the large cylinder to see if you can maintain vacuum seal that way. If you can maintain a seal that way, add the other cylinders back one at the time to determine which one is causing the failure to keep a seal.

Buying another unit would be costly and if there is a malfunction of your unit, then go for the replacement one from the company where you bought it. The amount of time lost that way will not grossly affect your exercise schedule.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jayhawk on August 24, 2008, 11:58:12 AM
Old Man,
Thanks for the tip on standing up when using the VED, it makes a big difference, not only does the blood flow faster, but It also seems to makes your unit fuller. I am still trying to figure how much vacuum preassure is enough, should I feel any discomfort?
thanks,
Jayhawk     
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 24, 2008, 02:00:53 PM
jayhawk:

OK, some of us have a higher threshhold of pain. So, one must be extremely careful not to exceed a certain level of vacuum pressure. You should be able to tell from how your penis feels during the pumping cycles. If it becomes rather tight in the small cylinder for instance, do not exceed a firm condition. It may be kind of difficult to tell when you have reached your best maximum pressure, so experiment with varying levels of pressure until you get the right one. Remember that even after you have stopped pumping, the blood flow will still build up pressure in the penile chambers, so take that into consideration as to what is your best level, etc.

Pumping up too high a vacuum usually produces edema of the foreskin if not circumcised, edema of the glans and in some cases it causes red bumps to appear on the head and along the shaft. If any of these occur, stop the therapy sessions and let the condition heal entirely before starting up again. You don't want to keep starting over with the protocol, so use caution in your cycles.

The above should give you a good idea of how to determine the correct level of pressure for you. As I said, just use varying levels until you get one that is comfortable and not exerts pressure to a point of pain or discomfort.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on August 25, 2008, 02:48:46 PM
jackisback,

In my case, if I don't use adequate lube to seal the all of the rubber rings, then I get the situation you describe. If I get my tri-focals on, I can sometimes see a path between the cylinder and the ring where the air is passing through. It is aggravating as he!!, but a generous application of lube at the locking O-ring as well as at the comfort ring (all the way around, skin side as well as rubber to plastic) is what is needed.

Maybe some folks that fill the thing up don't have this problem, but for us little pups, lube works.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: terryd on August 25, 2008, 03:16:14 PM
the way i check for leaks put lube on rubber stick it to belly if it dont leak than its the sill betwean me and the rubber ring if still leaks i take off rubber ring stick it to my belly if it doesn't leaks than thats were the leak is if it still leak than it probably were pump tightens on cylinder or the pump its self.terryd
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 25, 2008, 03:49:01 PM
Note to all VED users:

On the purchased three cylinder model VEDs be careful about putting lube on the pump end where the cylinders mate up with O ring on the pump. The lube can be drawn up into the pump and when it dries the pump may become useless.

If you do have to use lube there, place it inside the cylinder very sparingly and not on the pump itself. So, bottom line, use caution.

Also, if one has any urinary leakage into the cylinder(s) while pumping be careful to hold the whole assembly up so that the urine does not get pulled into the pump. The Vitality OTC VED has a small hole in one side of the pump entrance where the vacuum is pulled through so be careful not to get any liquid or lube into that opening. It would be prudent to use the pump with that opening on the top side, so assemble the unit with it up, etc.

Old Man
Title: Sealing problems
Post by: Steve on August 25, 2008, 06:33:18 PM
My 2 cents worth...

First, make sure that there is some lube on the sealing rings where they mate with the plastic tube.  If using both rings, make sure and lube up the outside surface of both rings.

Secondly, it really does help to shave around the sealing area.  All those pubes make for a very leaky seal unless you use a LOT of lube.

Good Luck
Steve
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Quinn on August 26, 2008, 06:35:58 PM
Hi guys,

I hope all is well. Just wanted to give an update. I've been using my Soma VED for 1 month now..haven't felt my curve has improved but my flaccid length is definitely 0.5-0.75cm longer. I'm not sure whether I'll see any straightening benefit at all as I feel the plaque may be calcified, but shall continue to use the pump regularly until the 6 months are over..fingers crossed!

Quinn
Title: Re: Sealing problems
Post by: Iceman on August 26, 2008, 07:32:44 PM
Quote from: Steve on August 25, 2008, 06:33:18 PM
My 2 cents worth...

First, make sure that there is some lube on the sealing rings where they mate with the plastic tube.  If using both rings, make sure and lube up the outside surface of both rings.

Secondly, it really does help to shave around the sealing area.  All those pubes make for a very leaky seal unless you use a LOT of lube.

Good Luck
Steve
Steve - have you tried pentox???
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackisback on August 28, 2008, 01:24:26 AM
Seaside2, thanks a bunch! I realized my problem! I put lube the past few times between the rubber insert and the tube, and this has worked great. Before I had only put lube on the inside of the rubber to slide myself in. Now the VED is working great for me again! I'm so glad I didn't buy a new one lol. I'm actually really happy I solved this problem and it was so simple.

Another question for people: do most people feel that it is best to use their penis to the point of orgasm while they are in a VED routine (i don't mean while you're literally physically using the VED)? It seems like you must use your penis to keep it in shape, but I wonder how often guys like us with Peyronie's need to do it to keep in shape if we are using the VED daily. For me it's a bit of a pain in the ass to use the VED every day, then "keep in shape" the other way. Too time consuming. I'm also not sure if it's good to do that right after pumping up with VED. But I'll keep doing it for now (or at least trying to), because I've noticed in the past whenever I stopped for more than a couple days it seemed like erection quality decreased.  But then again, sleep is important for this healing process. Damn, I guess time management is key. 
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: duenorth on September 04, 2008, 12:32:46 PM
hi-- i haven't posted lately, and wanted some feedback on something i am going to try.  first of all my condition is stable--no pain, but still have about a 45 degree bend.  have been doing the supplements (ALC, l carnitine, etc),  and have also been using pentox 2x per day for the past two+ months.  I have also been using the augusta medical ved (the expensive one) in the prescribed technique as found in this forum.  so------ condition stable, no  pain, and although no great improvement in bend, it does seem as the ved has had some benefit as to the condition of my penis.  hard to put into words-- it just seems healthier --better non erect appearance, feels better-- more feeling distal to the curve than before.  all of this is great, except for the curve.  this got me to thinking (a dangerous thing under normal circumstances).  i have decided to make my own ved and customize it to my own specifications.  i have ordered the proper diameter of clear pvc-- a diameter which will allow a fairly tight fit, but still allow some room for tissue expansion.  what i intend to try which is different is:  i plan on putting a bend in the tubing (nothing severe--just enough that i can allow stretching in the OPPOSITE direction of the bend i have now). i have ordered enough tubing so that i can try different bends(i have a way of bending that will not distort the lumenof the tubing). but plan on starting with something gentle--like maybe 20 degrees over the eight inch length of the entire ved.  this to me at least on an intuitive level to holds some promise. 
       not to worry-- i plan on proceeding cautiously.  has anyone ever thought of trying something like this before, or have i simply lost my mind???  to me, this does not seem any more out of line than the other things which we do in an experimental way, or based on anecdotal evidence.  (supplements, etc)
        anyway, i plan on giving it a try--to combine it with my regular ved therapy.  what i need is a link to where people have bought the hand pumps themselves-- i tried a search to no avail.  I should have the other hardware to start fabrication by the beginning of next week.  I will keep you posted as to progress or lack thereof.    any comments or suggestions welcome-----thanks.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on September 04, 2008, 02:14:02 PM
duenorth:

I have to strongly agree with sgtnick on bending in the opposite direction. Early on in my bouts with Peyronies Disease, I tried the bending in the opposite direction exercises as suggested by a male enhancement site that suggested this procedure. To my surprise, I not only did not get any positive results, but developed more pain and the plaque stayed very sore in and around it all the time. Also, more inflammation occurred and took much longer to go away than ever before.

The three cylinder VEDs are designed after many hours of testing in labs and by persons like myself who have passed along to the developers suggestions for making VEDs better to fit the needs of Peyronies Disease case. The three different cylinders are designed to give ones penis varying degrees of pressure lengthwise and in girth. The varying pressures helps promote better blood flow and stretching of the TA and/or plaque areas.

Sgtnick has given you some sage advice about possibly making your Peyronies Disease worse by aggravating the symptoms. So, IMHO, I would not under any circumstances be bending my plaque area in the opposite direction by any means whatever based on my personal experience.

The above carries my usual caveat in that they are solely the opinions of the writer and not that of any other person.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on September 06, 2008, 10:36:13 AM
I think that duenorth is on to something, personally.

I have been contemplating making exactly such a tube, but I do note some problems that will probably tank it. First of all, the curve I have is complex and compound, not in one plane. Sinnce I go up and slightly to the left, it would make sense to use a curve that is down and to the right.

But within the tubes I now use, I note a rotational problem. When I pump up, I tend to rotate slightly to the left (the head does). So, as I pump up to my final full pressure on the smaller diameter tube, I often spin it to the right a bit, to straighten the penis out.

I think this means that if this happened in a curved tube, I am out of luck. What will probably happen is that the penis will rotate such that the short side of the penis (the one with plaque) turns to the short side of the tube. So instead of being pulled to the right (in my case), it will probably flip.

Nevertheless, I think it is a good idea to try out with a *gentle* curve to the tube - it makes sense that it will exert a gentle, yet greater traction, to the side with plaque.

Also, regarding the warnings of OldMan - I agree in general with this warning, but I think it applies more to drastic manipulations like are done in jelqing, than to this proposal. I think this will not work well for other reasons detailed above.

Tim
Title: Curved tubes
Post by: Angus on September 06, 2008, 12:01:51 PM
   The small VED tube I made years ago (1 1/2 inch inside diameter) is made of the reinforced vinyl that you can get at any building supply center. The tubing comes on a 3 foot diameter roll and when purchased, the tubing has a curve or radius. The tubing is thick walled and has the "net" fabric molded in to reinforce it and has taken a "set" in the shape of this curve. This radius relaxes a little after purchase but the tubing retains a small radius. Instead of degrees, I'll try to describe the tube curve amount in radius since the tube curves progressively from one end to the other. After reading the last few posts I put a straight edge on the inside curve (or short side) of the VED tubing. This left a space between the tubing and the straight edge half way between the tubing ends. The tube itself is 10 inches long and the space between the tube and straight edge is 1/4 inch. This represents a fairly gentle curve in the tube. I used this VED for a long time and every other cycle I would rotate the tube so it would gently produce an erection opposite in direction to my Peyronies curve. My curve started at 45 degrees to the left and when I would use this small VED, it would produce an erection a FEW degrees to the right, when rotated properly. I could rotate the tube about its axis and point the curve in any direction. Sometimes I would do cycles with the curve pointed to the right then repeat with a few to the left, thinking I was giving the tissue a better "workout" for lack of a better term.
   As time has passed I never mentioned the curved tube aspect I was doing because I thought that the curve radius of the tube was so small that the few degrees of erection bending it was doing was basically inconsequential. I don't know if that small radius and producing erections with it had an effect on the reduction in Peyronies Disease curve from 45 down to 10 degrees. I can report that using it in this manner didn't hurt me or cause pain.
   With all that being said, I would add that anyone thinking of trying this to stay conservative in construction in regards to curve radius... you don't want to try and stretch a 45 degree curve 45 degrees in the opposite direction or you will have devastation, pain and sorrow. I was stretching a 45 degree curve only a FEW degrees in the opposite direction, and I certainly wouldn't make a tube with much more radius than I have described. If anyone jumps in to make a tube like this, play it safe and don't do anything crazy like make tubes with a huge bend in them. Read and remember all warnings about VED safety posted by Old Man, Tim and others. Proceed with caution and DON'T think you can speed things up with too much vacuum, bending and so on. It won't work and you'll be hurting, so just be careful.
   A picture or two of this VED tube can be seen if you go back to page 16 of this thread and scroll down to post #126. The radius is so small that you can't really see it, but the picture will give you a general idea of how it's made.
   
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: duenorth on September 08, 2008, 09:20:13 AM
        thanks for the input on both sides of this issue.  I plan on going ahead with the construction of the tube with the bend and should have all supplies by wednesday.  as angus and tim suggest--i plan on using a very slight curve in the tube (something along the lines of what angus has in his).  my thinking is something like this:  when i look at the 45 degree curve that i have, it seems to me that the curve has not only been created by shortening on the inside of the curve, but also by stretching on the outside of the curve.  when i use the ved, the appearance is that although i am getting stretching on both sides, the side on the outside of the curve is longer.  this is using the b cylinder, and under pressure the cylinder has no space around my penis at all.  this being the case, i simply am thinking of very gently stretching in the opposite direction-- not to bend, but to get the appearance of equal length on both inside and outside lengths in the curved area.  as usual i plan on listening to my body, and to never do anything which causes any pain.
        part of the problem that we face with this disease lies in its apparent complexity.  from all of the research that i have done, the only thing that i can conclude is that there are few absolutes.  a disease like this with unknown or multiple etiology, with possible genetic ties, and with no known cure is anathema to the mainstream medical community.  when you combine this with very little upside for making a lot of money, i fear that research on our behalves will be somewhere between slow and nonexistent. 
       this leaves us with trial and error experimentation on ourselves.  the information on this forum is a godsend, and without a doubt, the best information available on this disease.  in no way am i trying to downplay the effort which has gone into developing the techniques and protocols developed, or the results gained by following them.  i am simply looking (like the rest of you who have over the years tried various techniques and supplements), for the right program for me.  i believe strongly that what may work great for one individual, will be of no help to another.  i believe that this is due to the many forms and courses that this disease takes.  if we can come up with one new little change which can be of benefit in some cases ---  great. 
       like i said--not trying to reinvent the wheel here--just changing something slightly.   angus---- thanks for the information.  i will keep you posted as to progress or lack thereof.  if it turns out to be a another hairbrained idea and path that i have compulsively followed, i will do what i normally do in that situation--have a good laugh at myself, and move on.   thanks again.
Title: Thanks for the Advice
Post by: jackp on September 09, 2008, 06:01:32 PM
Old Man
I have followed the advice you gave me last October on proper use of the VED. Lately have noticed much better looking package.
I have stayed away from the tape measure so not to get up too much hope. Today I marked the VED and measured from my last measurement. What a suprise I have gained almost 3/4 of an inch in 10 months. That is just about a 1/2 inch shy of my size before peyronies in 1995.
Yes, I still have a love hate relationship with the VED because my venous leakage is so bad that the real tight constriction bans cut down on a lot of feeling for sex. (I only use rings for sex).
Thanks for the advice. Keep up the good work.
Jackp
Title: Re: Shrout
Post by: wayne999 on September 09, 2008, 09:32:26 PM
Quote from: Angus on April 23, 2008, 06:41:43 PM

   The 9 months you've spent sticking with the protocol shouldn't be thought of as a waste of time; you've stuck with the program, but with shorter sessions of pumping. If you can't see huge results right now, don't think that something hasn't been going on with re-molding the penis. When I started with the VED I experimented with everything from 4 or 5 minute sessions all the way up to 45 minutes or more, with varying cycles and vacuum pressures as I hadn't contacted Old Man for the procedures when I started out. It took approximately a year and a half before I saw visible results, but the results have remained stable (about a 10 degree deflection now... perfectly acceptable to me compared to the 45 degree bend I started with).
   You can add time to your sessions and add more cycles, lengthen the duration of cycles and so forth. Keep the vacuum pressure down low and lengthen the time "in tube". You're body will tell you when it's time to end the session when any discomfort is felt.

How long would you say a daily session of VED use should be in order to get good results? One obviously doesn't want to do it for too long or overpump etc. I'm just trying to get an idea of the time committment required each day.

Also, I note that you said you use a smaller cylinder only a few times a week for maintenance. Do you think if you stopped with VED completely that the 45 degree curve might come back? i.e. do you think the scar tissue/plaque that you strectched would contract again ?

EDIT:
Also wanted to ask if anyone thinks there are any long-term negative side affects of using the VED or traction devices etc? I mean is it possible your penis gets "used to" the pump and it's harder to get natural erections ?

And finally, do you guys think VED has the ability to get rid of hour glass type deformities? My curvature looks like its the result of the chambers being of two different sized cylinders and at the point where they meet is where the curvature is. Even in the flaccid state I sometimes notice this hour glass effect, anyone else experience similar ?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on September 09, 2008, 10:34:08 PM
wayne999:

I am sure that Angus will answer your post later. However, I will jump in and state that you should use the VED daily sessions for at least 15 minutes or so after you get used to using the VED. It takes a while for your penis to adjust to the added pressure of the vacuum. So, be careful and don't over pump the pressure at any time.

Go the the VED section of the Child Boards on the home page of the main forum. Open the link to that section and your will find two protocols for two different types of VED. One is of the guys who made their own single cylinder (three different sizes) and one for the purchased VEDs that have the three cylinders. There are notes that explain about using the protocol and how it is to be followed.

Feel free to ask any and all questions about using the VED and we can and will help.

Old Mn
Title: Wayne999, VED therapy, hourglasses
Post by: Angus on September 10, 2008, 03:56:27 PM
Quote from: wayne999 on September 09, 2008, 09:32:26 PM
Quote from: Angus on April 23, 2008, 06:41:43 PM

   The 9 months you've spent sticking with the protocol shouldn't be thought of as a waste of time; you've stuck with the program, but with shorter sessions of pumping. If you can't see huge results right now, don't think that something hasn't been going on with re-molding the penis. When I started with the VED I experimented with everything from 4 or 5 minute sessions all the way up to 45 minutes or more, with varying cycles and vacuum pressures as I hadn't contacted Old Man for the procedures when I started out. It took approximately a year and a half before I saw visible results, but the results have remained stable (about a 10 degree deflection now... perfectly acceptable to me compared to the 45 degree bend I started with).
   You can add time to your sessions and add more cycles, lengthen the duration of cycles and so forth. Keep the vacuum pressure down low and lengthen the time "in tube". You're body will tell you when it's time to end the session when any discomfort is felt.

How long would you say a daily session of VED use should be in order to get good results? One obviously doesn't want to do it for too long or overpump etc. I'm just trying to get an idea of the time committment required each day.

Also, I note that you said you use a smaller cylinder only a few times a week for maintenance. Do you think if you stopped with VED completely that the 45 degree curve might come back? i.e. do you think the scar tissue/plaque that you strectched would contract again ?

EDIT:
Also wanted to ask if anyone thinks there are any long-term negative side affects of using the VED or traction devices etc? I mean is it possible your penis gets "used to" the pump and it's harder to get natural erections ?

And finally, do you guys think VED has the ability to get rid of hour glass type deformities? My curvature looks like its the result of the chambers being of two different sized cylinders and at the point where they meet is where the curvature is. Even in the flaccid state I sometimes notice this hour glass effect, anyone else experience similar ?

   You need to average 15 or 20 minute sessions each day then adjust to what your body tells you if necessary. Some days circumstances may permit only 10 minutes, other days you may be able to go 30 minutes. The important thing is regular use; try not to miss a day, although sometimes that's unavoidable. Listen to your body; if you have swelling and redness, you're going too long or overpumping, so the regular warnings we give apply here. You will have to adjust the actual time spent with the VED according to your own body; one guy might think 30 minutes is a minimum and the next guy will say he can't pump longer than 15 minutes. These are guidelines; your body will tell you when the session is over as you'll soon recognize the feelings of stretched tissue after many cycles.
   I have gone on vacations and trips where the VED wasn't taken along. No curve has returned. I've gone weeks without using the VED with no adverse effects. The only reason scar tissue would contract again would be because of repeat injury, hence the warnings and guidelines we give so many times in the thread. I know of no recorded instances where a Peyronies Disease curve returned because of stopping VED use.
   I know of no long-term effects of VED use in regards to natural erections. Traction devices I have no knowledge of. If someone develops erectile dysfunction in the time frame while one is using a VED, that person would need to look at the usual causes of ED and have that assessed by a urologist. This is assuming that the VED is being used carefully and not overpumping, etc.
  Hourglass deformities are tough. They are caused by tissue that can no longer "inflate" with blood. In my opinion the VED can remodel tissue into a straighter overall state in regards to curved peni, but it cannot re-constitute scarred cavernosa tissue that cannot inflate. The hourglass condition will probably remain even after a curve reduction is experienced. When somebody solves the hourglass condition with a fix, they'll have my undivided attention and probably a few other members as well!
  Ask questions whenever you want. We're writing the book here, and without input, questions and answers, we'd go nowhere with this therapy.
Title: Re: Wayne999, VED therapy, hourglasses
Post by: wayne999 on September 10, 2008, 06:23:40 PM
Angus, thanks for your reply.

Does everyone agree here that scarring of the corpora carvernosa is the reason for hourglass deformities? If so, this sounds more complex than scarring on the tunica, but I'm sure i've read of reports of people here who have said that the therapy they were using may have improved their hourglass figure  hmm...

Also for people who have corrected some/all of their curvature: Is there also a regain of flexibility? I mean, with about a 40deg downward curve there is a limit to how much my erect member will go back toward my stomach. If curves are minimized, does this also imply that some flexibility will return?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on September 10, 2008, 08:19:50 PM
Angus
I agree with most things you say except the VED effect on Corporal Fibrosis and Peyronies scar.
My peyronies started in 1995 and all the doctor did was put me on vitamin E and potaba. About 18 months later the curve corrected but left me 1.25 inches shorter. Dr. said nothing he could do.
In 2004 ED was so bad I tried injection therapy for ED, I used it almost a year with little to no effect. Dr. Recommended implant.
10/2006 Had implant scheduled but chest pains and heart stents made me wait another year. I asked my uro what could I do I was 100% impotent. He had me fit with a VED in his office. The instructions were not clear or I did not understand them and caused an abrasion that took 2 months to heal.
10/2007 Implant surgery had to be aborted. Doctor penetrated my urethra. The reason for the penetration was corporal fibrosis from the shots.
10/2007 I found this site and OLD MAN put me on the right track on VED usage. I have been closely following his instructions and yesterday measured my self and I had gained back about 3/4 of an inch.
All this to say.
Proper VED usage will help the penis. It will not cure you, but make it healthier.
If you do not have started the VED be sure to contact Old Man and follow his instructions. It takes time and do not rush the process. Even my new doctor recommends VED therapy.
Jackp
Title: We agree that VED's work
Post by: Angus on September 11, 2008, 10:57:50 AM
Thanks jackp. We do agree that the VED does work for most and that it is a pro-active treatment that a man can actually do. My comments are made based on my own personal experiences with the VED and how my body reacted to its use. Peyronies Disease is SO different in regards to how it affects men physiologically, and VED use will produce results and outcomes that will vary from individual to individual. And I agree that step one for men thinking of the VED is to read the Child Board thread on VED's and contact Old Man, Professor Emeritus of VED use, and get started right away.
   Old Man, I hope you don't mind that I gave you that "tag". There's lots of guys here you've helped, including me, and I don't think anyone will mind me saying that!
Title: Olld Man'sTitle
Post by: Mick on September 11, 2008, 11:39:09 AM
Angus:

I agree that Old Man should be considered a professor, but not "emeritus."  Emeritus professors are retired!  Old Man is too active for that title.

Mick
Title: Re: Treating Hour-Glass Deformity
Post by: Hawk on September 11, 2008, 03:08:47 PM
If I am not mistaken,  Dr. Levine's preliminary study surprised him because hour-glass deformity was also improved with traction.
Title: Re: Treating Hour-Glass Deformity
Post by: Ptolemy on September 11, 2008, 03:39:35 PM
Interesting. I was about to post that in addition to the bend improvement I have, the improvement in the "hour glass" have been quite dramatic as well. I had assumed this improvement was from the VED not Traction. Particularly, the use of the largest tube is like throwing my penis out an open window - the tube is too big but because it is too big the vacuum I assumed was improving the girth in the plaque area. Now you're suggesting that it might be the Traction that is making that improvement.

Whatever, I'm motivated to continue what I've been doing (VED and Traction) in that the results are very satisfying.
Title: a better VED? and schedule...?
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on September 11, 2008, 06:27:16 PM
i have one of those cheapter VED's "Encore VTU 1".

i've had it since the end of last winter but didn't use it much starting in spring until now. it's not comfrotable. i had to get the latex 'shields' so it doesn't such everthing up into the tube. none the less it tend so make my penis soar after, even though i don't think i'm pumping too much.

how much are the good one's and where do i get it?! i many not have the $ now but i can save up...

regardless... how often should i be doing it and how long do i keep it in the vacuum each "inflation". etc...? get the question?

i have the VED... what do i do with it? i want to do it right and also eventually get a more comfortable VED.

any thoughts would be great! thanks...

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on September 11, 2008, 08:04:08 PM
GOOD NEWS... my dents seemed to have disappeared on the top of my shaft - very stoked!!

Could be the VED usage  I think...

cheers
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on September 11, 2008, 09:07:05 PM
getting_there:

It appears that the better buy right now for a good durable medical quality VED is the Augusta Vitality OTC model. The best price that everyone is getting is at this site:  www.fitzz.com

The last time I was on that web site, the VED was priced at $229.99 with free shipping. It is the three cylinder model that is marketed for ED rather than Peyronies Disease, but it works great for Peyronies Disease. The protocol of choice for the three cylinder VEDs is the 26 week one listed on the VED thread in the Childs Board which is a link just under the main forum link on the home page of the forum.

Go to the VED topic there and you will find the 26 week protocol for the three cylinder model VEDs.
The recommended schedule for these units is every day for the entire period of time. There are notes listed on the protocol page that show suggested times, cycles and other pertinent information about VED usage.

If you have further questions, just let them be known and someone will get the answer(s) for you.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: wayne999 on September 11, 2008, 10:42:20 PM
Old Man: Is that the #1 rated VED you would recommend?

Also i was wondering how long it took for you to see results with the VED? And what your curvature was like before you started VED? (I understand you have 0 curvature now).
Title: VED's, hourglasses and professors
Post by: Angus on September 11, 2008, 11:38:55 PM
Iceman... your news is good. I hope the dent reduction is working on being a permanent thing. Let us know.

getting_there... save up and get the Vitality... if the one you have is causing pain, it needs to be retired!

Ptolemy... it might well be the combination that you're using that got your results. There aren't enough studies for us to glean much from to get a solid idea of what kind of forces work to get results. Keep up what you're doing if you're comfortable with it and let us know down the line if you have any changes.

Mick... when I was in school there was a professor emeritus that was retired from assigned duties... but he stuck around to help out even though he wasn't on the payroll anymore ;) our Old Man is light years away from the stereotype ol' man rocking away in a rocking chair lol... I'd lay money that if I ever met him in person that I couldn't keep up with the feller  :D So, I use emeritus as a term of respect  ;D I thought a title with a bit of Latin in it would lend a bit of flair  ;)
Old Man, you've got flair... and thanks for all that you take time to do on this forum!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on September 12, 2008, 10:49:46 AM
wayne999:

Yes, the Augusta Vitality OTC manual three cylinder model VED is what I consider the weapon of choice right now for Peyronies Disease therapy. At $229.99 plus free shipping and handling it is the best bargain out there.

First of all, it is much cheaper than most models out there now and it performs much better than any VED that I have ever used or heard about being used based on the purchased models, that is. Some home made units work better for those who made them as a custom unit. If you are handy with tools, check out the post where Angus and/or Tim explain how they made theirs.

Some of the cheaper models cause pinching of the penis, sucking up the scrotum and testes into the cylinder and other problems. The Vitality,, as Angus says, is considered to be the best unit for Peyronies Disease therapy if you cannot make your own as he has done.

My curves were 45 degrees down  and 45 degrees to the right when erect before VED therapy. Those were measured in my uro's office using the standard math protractor by the nurse practitioner. After about 6 months of VED therapy and large dosages of vitamin E, the curves went away. A slight hourglass effect remained for another 6 months so, but now that is gone. I use the Soma Correct (predecessor to the Vitality or Soma Erect VEDs) VED now about 3 or so times a week just for maintenance of the results, etc.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on September 12, 2008, 10:51:52 AM
Angus and Mick:

OK guys, enough of the flattery. However, flattery will get you everywhere if applied right, huh?

Anyway, thanks for your kudos. I do try my best to help when the opportunity presents itself.

Thanks, again.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Toby on September 12, 2008, 08:48:27 PM
Hi guys, I havent posted in a while but I just wanted to report my progress with the vitality ved. After 11 weeks of therapy I still have a upward curve, and I also still have loss of girth. However I am noticing some positive changes. The scar tissue seems to be softening. When I am erect I can straighten my penis without pain. Before I couldnt do this. I also have regained my lost length. The first time I used the ved I measured my penis and it was about 5 in. Now just under 6.5 in. Also when I use ved my penis is much thicker and straighter. It also seems longer and has more feeling in it throughout the day. But I am discouraged because when I have an erection without ved I still have the curve. I do notice that 2 dents halfway down the shaft are nearly gone. I just hope I will continue to see positive results.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices Time of therapy
Post by: Old Man on September 12, 2008, 09:20:38 PM
Toby:

You should not be too discouraged since you have reported positive things happening for your Peyronies Disease. The curve I know is important to you, but it is not the most important thing for you right now. Give the VED exercise therapy more time to work on the curve. My experience tells me that the curve is usually the last thing to show improvement for some guys. However, it would only be fair to say that the curve in some instances will not respond as much as the lose of dimensions. So, keep up the therapy on a daily basis and stay the course for at least the 26 week regimen. You may even need to do a second 26 week protocol schedule to get the final results you are looking for, etc.

If you have questions that any of us can help with, please fire away.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackisback on September 13, 2008, 02:43:35 AM
Can I ask, how many people out there who use VED also use blood thinning supplements (E, pentox, l-arg)? I just feel like whenever i use my VED a few times a week I get big improvement, but once I get serious and do it every day, I start to have a decrease in erection quality even though i try to be cautious.
Title: Old MAn.... i cannot find the thread you're talking about...
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on September 13, 2008, 04:01:11 AM
i cannot find the thread in the "child's board" that gives details of the 26 week VED plan. it's pretty annoying!!! i've been looking and looking....
Title: Blood Thinners & VED
Post by: jackp on September 13, 2008, 07:37:14 AM
I have been on Vitamin E, Plavix and now Warfarin. Have to have my blood checked every 4 weeks.
When I first started the VED I was on Plavix. Did not pay attention and got too aggressive that caused a bruise that took 2 months to heal.
After failed implant last October I found this site and Old Man. He started me on the proper usage of the 1 cylinder prescription VED that I had for over a year and used "sparingly".
I find that if I pump and hold for 20 seconds>< then release and repump I get a better result. After about 5 minutes with minimal pressure I can start adding pressure and by 10 minutes I was where I was b/4 starting VED therapy after 15 minutes i have gained 1/2 to 3/4 of if my size b/4 peyronies.
Always when on blood thinner do not over pump. Start Slow and if you feel any pain you are getting to aggressive. The key is to start slowly and then build up.
Using this method I have not hurt myself but have a better penis.
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on September 13, 2008, 08:24:00 AM
getting there:

OK, it is very easy once you know the right path. Log in to the main forum. Go to the home page icon in the left hand margin of the links. Open the home page, locate the link to the main forum posts. Right below it is a smaller link that is listed as Childs Board and open that page. The two protocols are located at the very beginning of the list of topics.

One is for the three cylinder purchased models and one is for the separate cylinder models home made by guys who have the ability and handy with tools. Angus and Tim as well as others have made their own, etc.

Let me know if this gets you to the right place.

Old Man
Title: Re: Jack is Back
Post by: Mick on September 13, 2008, 11:52:14 AM
I am on warfarin and use L-Argenine.
Title: Cylinder sizes? ...what do they matter?
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on September 13, 2008, 04:48:38 PM
i don't get what the importance of cylinder size is! i have one VED pump and i can't imagine what difference the cylinder size would make unless i couldn't fit myself inside it. this one i have is bigger than i could ever hope to be! the pump sucks the air out and inflates the penis... am i missing something? what's up with the 3 cylinder sizes?!?
Title: thanks Old Man!!
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on September 13, 2008, 04:49:23 PM
thanks Old Man!! found it! ...and bookmarked it!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/value of 3 cylinders for Peyronies Disease
Post by: Old Man on September 13, 2008, 11:00:52 PM
getting_there:

The theory behind the three cylinders for VED therapy is that the varying degrees of vacuum pressure and confinement of the penis in the small cylinder stretches the penis in length as well as in girth.

Confining the penis in the small cylinder holds the curved penis in a more straight position and in turn gives the tissue a sort of remolding attitude. The penis is considered a "smooth muscle" type tissue and therefore can more easily be deformed or damaged. Remolding a curved penis in the VED does take time and patience.

VED usage is not a science in itself, but does lend itself for providing much more volume of blood flow to a damaged penis than a natural erection. Blood flow is necessary to help keep the penis more healthy. There are no known studies at this time, as far as I know, that provide any official background verification success for VED usage. We just have the known success stories of those who have had their Peyronies Disease go into remission by using the VED therapy.

The VED therapy does not work for all cases of Peyronies Disease, but there have been enough that have received good results to support its use.

Old Man
Title: Success stories
Post by: wayne999 on September 14, 2008, 06:58:01 AM
Old Man:

In terms of anything official related to the VED success stories, I noticed on the Fittz website for the Vitality VED model that a certain Chris Spivey, P.A. Urology Centers of Alabama, P.C. – Birmingham claims that "So far, more than 1,000 patients have been successfully treated for Peyronie's with a multi-cylinder vacuum therapy system in our clinic. "

Anyone ever heard of this guy or been to this clinic?

http://www.fitzz.com/Vitality-Plus-Three-Cylinder-Vacuum-Therapy-System--Recommended-for-Peyronies-Therapy--Free-Shipping-Included_p_1983.html
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LWillisjr on September 14, 2008, 07:17:00 AM
Interesting,
One would think that a clinic with this success rate would be better known, and that there would be documented studies with the facts. Given that it is a promotional statement, it would be interesting to find out what there definition of  "have been successfully treated" means.........?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Spivey Clinic results
Post by: Old Man on September 14, 2008, 08:09:24 AM
lwillisjr and Wayne999:

Yes, we do know of the Chris Spivey study that has been going for quite some time now. The results, as far as I know, have not been published. I have personally written emails to the clinic requesting a copy of the study, but have never even received an answer much less a copy of the study results.

They used the 26 week protocol (posted on our own Childs Board) for the thousand or so patients that were enrolled in the study group. We adopted using that protocol as an acceptable therapy schedule some time ago and Angus posted it on the Childs Board for all to use. It was successful for myself and others on this forum. Some have reported their success and I am sure that others just simply did not come back on the forum to report their success or failure to get success for their Peyronies Disease.

I have no clue as to the reason why the Birmingham, Alabama, clinic has not made public their findings. It is clear that they used the three cylinder VED for their study group. The Vitality OTC unit as well as the old Soma Correct and later the Somaerect VEDs were used in the study and appears to have produced great results based on the Fitzz statement, etc.

Hope this helps.

Old Man
Title: Publishing reports
Post by: Tim468 on September 14, 2008, 11:59:43 AM
Either they were too lazy to publish it, or they realized it would not pass muster in a peer-reviewed journal, or they submitted it and it was rejected. I think any is a likely explanation, since the "study" was uncontrolled without a blinded investigator or subject (and how could you?) nor a control group.

Tim
Title: Re: "Successfully Treated"
Post by: Hawk on September 14, 2008, 11:20:46 PM
Unless the term "Successfully Treated" has some established medical definition I am not familiar with, it is a term you can define almost as you see fit and is therefore useless.  I think one could literally argue they "successful treated" patients but "the patients treatment was not successful" if you follow the jargon.  It is a term that always sets off my BS detector as Liam used to say.

Mind you, I am not saying the VED does not work.  I would argue for VED use, but I think if they could have justly made a more definitive statement they would have jumped on it.   The fact that they did not raises questions.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: george t on September 15, 2008, 12:09:58 AM
Hi- I am currently having treatment at UROLOGY CENTERS OF ALABAMA and the protocal was developed by CHRIS SPIVEY-- who is a FEMALE. ALthough I have read about the 3 cyllinder program, I was given but one size and use it exclusively. I am to "Pump up" about 10 times in a session and hold each time for about 20 to 30 seconds before deflating. I have seen some straightening. I also have iontophoresis treatments (10 so far) and 2 more to go...Verapimil injections may then be proposed....I put some kind of creme on Mr. Pecker twice a day and no clue if it has done any good or not. It is 140 miles roundtrip each time I go for a session and I'm approaching about a thousand bucks just on gas not to mention co-pays. ONLY WOMEN do the therapy at this place....The Physician's Assistant (Ms. SPivey) and her nurses......How embarassing to have a "pumping" lesson/evaluation from a woman......Wouldn't you think they would have a guy or two there for these things? About 16 urologists.....all males but 2-- male nurses? I have NEVER seen one there and this place is the biggest practice in my state.

Any guys out there who developed Peyronie's after surgery? Mine started soon after a Transurethral Resection of the Prostate (TURP) I had 3 of them in 2006 in only 4 months and near total anorgasmia, or orgasmic sensation loss after TURP one and the Peyronie's started after TURP 3. Still have erectile pain in the night/morning and this now after 2 years.....it is GREATLY lessened (was 4 or 5 times per night) and forward bending mostly fixed but still angulation to the right and hour-glass shaped. Even with the VED device, the glans never is as fully "engorged" as before this mess started. I was only 56 when I had the surgery and at age 58 this is NOT what I had expected sexually. I have also noticed some  penile shortening as well.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: george t on September 15, 2008, 12:19:17 AM
HI- George T again-- I forgot to ask VED users out there...I have been in the last few days noticing some reddish spots and some tiny water filled blister looking places on the glans of my penis--noticed them thru the clear cyllinder. Is this from over pumping? I didn't think I was doing too much.....I'd not pumped till it HURT....Didn't hold more than a minute or two at the longest....I have cut back to about 30 seconds per pumping after reaching maximum size....ANy tips out there...? Thanks if can advise.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ptolemy on September 15, 2008, 06:48:10 AM
Quote
Multi-Cylinder Vacuum Therapy for Peyronie's Disease Application Directions

1. Use the different sized cylinders according to the above table.
2. Use negative pressure daily (for up to six months) as a therapy for Peyronie's Disease.
3. Each daily session should consist of 10 cycles. Each cycle will consist of the following steps: (1) create negative pressure around the penis (2) fill the space inside the cylinder and hold a "straight" erection for 5-10 seconds (3) release the negative pressure in the cylinder (4) repeat the cycle ten times to complete one daily session.
4. Negative pressure will not allow the penis to fully engorge, but will allow penile vascularization and stretching of the Peyronie's plaque.

I copied the above from the instructions on VED use.
Point 4 above: Applies only to the large cylinder for me. When I use the small or medium cylinder, the friction of my penis on the walls of the cylinder frequently causes an erection. Any thoughts on gaining an erection during the VED session? Since the primary purpose of the VED is bloodflow will an erection during the session have any negative impact on bloodflow especially to the plaque area?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ptolemy on September 15, 2008, 06:54:08 AM
Quote from: george t on September 15, 2008, 12:19:17 AM
I have been in the last few days noticing some reddish spots and some tiny water filled blister looking places on the glans of my penis

I have noticed a small reddish spot occasionally (but not on the glans) and never thought twice about it. If I got a lot and frequently, I'd reduce the pressure a little.
Title: Over Pumping
Post by: jackp on September 15, 2008, 07:27:44 AM
Guys
Never pump to the point that you see redness or blisters. I did not pay attention a couple of years ago and had a blister that took 2 months to heal.
IMHO Back off the pressure, just because you do not feel pain does not mean that you are not over pumping.
Start out slowly you do not have to get to a full erection right away use about 10 minutes to get there. Pump and release every 20-30 seconds. I would say start out with about a 80% erection.
That is what worked for me.
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on September 15, 2008, 09:10:20 AM
Welcome George-T

I guess I might feel different about a guy or a girl showing me how to use a VED - but I'd be embarrased either way!

A blister suggests too high of a pressure. I use a simple hand pump on a simple cylinder, so I can always know what pressure I am using (others here do not feel this makes much difference and go by "feel"). But whether using a gauge or not, we all figure out what we can tolerate. The goal is to stretch out the tissue, but not to damage the tissue. A blister or red spot (petechiae is the right term) is a sign that too much pressure was used. Let it heal and then come back at it at a lowered pressure.

Ptolemy -

Either due to age (or a lack of excitement about pumping!) I rarely get an erection from pumping with any size cylinder. It is my experience that it does not make any difference with the larger cylinders, but with a small cylinder it makes a huge difference. In short, I am unable to get into it if I start out erect, and therefore I do not get the longitudinal pull I desire. Although blood is pulled into the whole penis well, the idea is more about the head getting engorged and forming a seal/gasket that can be pulled by the vacuum so that a length-wise stretch is applied to the penis. That effect is lost when I get all hot and bothered that I am playing with myself!

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: wayne999 on September 16, 2008, 06:08:13 PM
I was wondering for those who noted curvature improvements, did you also notice a gain of flexibility? What i mean by that, for eg, because i have a 40 or so downward curve, I can't get my erect member to go all the way against my stomach. I've noted Old Man said that even whilst his erection sticks straight out now after using the VED, he can't move it very much in any direction. Was interested to see if any people were able to also get back flexibility ?  I would have thought that it a normal erect penis should be able to be flexible such that you can bring it all the way back so its flat against your stomach?
Title: Flexibility?
Post by: Angus on September 16, 2008, 06:25:05 PM

   I'm not sure I personally would want that much flexibility. I can't imagine why an individual would require that a penis bend all the way back to his stomach, but then on the other hand, I might not want to know why. A certain amount of rigidity is desired to stabilize things to help prevent injury by keeping this lateral movement to a minimum. If I had to live with just my much-improved curve but without 90 degree lateral and vertical motion, I think I could live with that. To answer your question though, the flexibility I had didn't change a bit and I like it that way.
Title: Re: Flexibility?
Post by: wayne999 on September 16, 2008, 07:10:15 PM
The reason I ask if because it seems to me that a normal erect penis (from the "movies" that I've seen) would have no trouble in being tilted up 90 degrees. This would be to allow for certain "female dominant" positions i.e. the basic woman-on-top but she instead of being perfectly straight she is leaning down on the man. In such a case, I would estimate there would be a 0 to 30 degree angle between the stomach and penis. This is why I was interested to see if straighetning of the penis via VED (or Traction) was also able to give some flexibilty back that I would assume a normal penis would have. Obviously one would not care or wish for any such 90degrees flexibility in a left/right direction as there is no point of that.
Title: VED's helping flexibililty
Post by: Angus on September 16, 2008, 11:25:34 PM

   Wayne, I haven't heard of Peyronies Disease affecting flexibility upwards. I suppose something could be affected if the suspension ligament or other ligaments were damaged, but since I've never heard of this, that would be a first and a long shot as the suspension ligament is far removed from tissues affected by Peyronies. I believe your original question is the first inquiry here about loss of vertical flexibility and if VED use helps this. So basically, I don't know. Maybe someone else would have thoughts on this. We're writing the book here on so many things, and this may be another page if flexibility is a functionality problem for you.
   I have thoughts on what you say about positions, woman on top and movies (I assume you mean porn?), but that discussion would veer away from VED's and should be taken to the Off-Topic area in a thread there if you wanted to discuss it.
Title: Re: Wayne - Woman on Top
Post by: Hawk on September 16, 2008, 11:50:13 PM
Wayne,

Right or wrong topic, I will give a quick answer.  More men here have triggered Peyronies Disease from woman on top injuries than possibly any other single injury induced cause.  If you have Peyronies Disease, never consider that position.

I know of no issues with Peyronies Disease and the movement of the entire penis.  Flexing the shaft away from the plaque would be more difficult.  If your penis curves from the stomach that is could be common Peyronies Disease.  If the shaft is straight but the entire shaft sticks away from the stomach, I have no clue what that is about.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackisback on September 17, 2008, 11:54:30 PM
Really? I thought most people didn't know where their Peyronie's came from.

The woman on top thing is surprising to me. Personally, I won't avoid it ever because it's the best position for my ED. It seems to me that position would be pretty safe depending on the technique. Seems that it would be risky only if she were going high up enough that you were in danger of slipping out and having the classic *snap* scenario, but maybe it's just the opposite and her moving around while you're fully inside would be more traumatic for all I know. (sorry for being so graphic)
Title: mechanism of injury to cause Peyronies Disease
Post by: Tim468 on September 18, 2008, 12:09:24 AM
Interesting thought Hawk... Is that something you found by reading "Our Histories" or just an impression you formed. I too thought that most of us can not recall a specific injury.

However, I made mine worse by rough sex (um, lets just say I can't recall if she was on top or sort of beside me or in front of me... but it was too out of control. It makes me sad that I cannot have that kind of sex any more, but the kind I do have is wonderful).

Tim
Title: Injury induced cause
Post by: Angus on September 18, 2008, 12:26:48 AM

    I haven't seen a poll upon the subject, but I have read about the woman on top bend-n-snap scenario too many times and am also under the impression that this is the leading injury induced cause of Peronies. Over-ambitious solo sex might run a close second but this is just based on my reading over the years. Sticking with woman on top is at a risk and in my humble opinion increases ones odds of the bend-n-snap scenario greatly. If you accept the associated risk, go for it... and be careful.
Title: Re: Woman on Top
Post by: Hawk on September 18, 2008, 12:44:12 AM
Let me be clear.  I am not suggesting MOST Peyronies Disease is caused by woman on top.  I am suggesting that most Peyronies Disease that is attributed to injury is associated with injury from that position.   I can actually count several names off the top of my head and the theme has come up many times on the forum (by men and women posting on the main forum).  I would name  a list now but I feel uncomfortable doing so. 
Title: Re: VED's helping flexibililty
Post by: wayne999 on September 21, 2008, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: Angus on September 16, 2008, 11:25:34 PM
   I have thoughts on what you say about positions, woman on top and movies (I assume you mean porn?), but that discussion would veer away from VED's and should be taken to the Off-Topic area in a thread there if you wanted to discuss it.

Angus, I'm not sure where to put a reply to this post in the Off-Topic area, so please feel free to start a new thread there with what you wanted to say on this issue.

We've heard of only a few success stories here with VED, and they all seem to be related to men age 60+ who seem to be affected by varying degrees of ED. I was wondering if any younger guys had any experience with VED?

Also, does anyone have any experience/thoughts with VED success stories if curvature is caused by say not Peyronies Disease but congenital?
Title: Wayne... VED's, porn, congenital curves
Post by: Angus on September 21, 2008, 01:15:49 PM
Quote from: wayne999 on September 21, 2008, 09:51:12 AM
Quote from: Angus on September 16, 2008, 11:25:34 PM
   I have thoughts on what you say about positions, woman on top and movies (I assume you mean porn?), but that discussion would veer away from VED's and should be taken to the Off-Topic area in a thread there if you wanted to discuss it.

Angus, I'm not sure where to put a reply to this post in the Off-Topic area, so please feel free to start a new thread there with what you wanted to say on this issue.

We've heard of only a few success stories here with VED, and they all seem to be related to men age 60+ who seem to be affected by varying degrees of ED. I was wondering if any younger guys had any experience with VED?

Also, does anyone have any experience/thoughts with VED success stories if curvature is caused by say not Peyronies Disease but congenital?

     On the subject of movies (porn, I assume) and using them as a guide or teaching tool in regards to sex positions and techniques, I could summarize my own thoughts in one statement without a thread. Porn is a form of entertainment. The things they portray border on the outrageous and surpass that with regularity. I haven't watched any for decades because the thinking that pushing the limits with gymnastic, outrageous, upside-down sex will win the hearts of women is gone. Anyone who emulates the positions that push the limits of physiology does so entirely at their own risk because of the possibility of damage to the penis. So the young beware... if you're chasing porn to enhance sex experiences, you're chasing a ghost... the answers you want are right at home without goofball positions that endanger your physiology. A discussion of the inherent dangers of woman on top could be held in the Causes of Peyronies Disease thread. I might be old school, but the old school guys have been to a lot of school and generally have a handle on this stuff.
     VED success: Yes, I'd like to have more VED success stories here, but we have only those that choose to document their success on this forum, and those are the ones that stepped up to use the VED and stick with it for an extended period of time. The majority of Peyronies sufferers who post here are older because Peyronies mostly affects men who are older. However, I got Peyronies but not ED, I'm under 60, and the VED worked to reduce Peyronies curvature. There aren't a lot of statistics here concerning young men with Peyronies that help resolve it with a VED because there just aren't a lot of them. Until young men with true Peyronies Disease use the VED and post their results, good or bad, well, we won't have statistics on that. Some have posted a few times and asked about VED's but many disappear after a few posts for one reason or another.
     VED's and congenital curve: Nope, I don't have thoughts on that. That is a subject that is out of the realm of this forum. If a man has a fully functioning penis that has a curve to it that has always been there and he is able to have penetrative sex, then what is there to fix? All penises are not the perfectly straight unbelievably huge baseball bats portrayed in porn (see above on porn) and that's just the way it is. There is documentation here on how to use a VED, but if you're considering using a VED to straighten a congenital curve to a straighter specification that you wish to have, I don't know what to tell you, except to ask you to really re-think what you are doing. If you function and are straight enough for penetrative sex, you have the gift of health and a penis that works, so you have nothing to fix.
     I'm not trying to rant and beat anyone down... I'm just trying to help put a proper perspective on these things. There are probably differing opinions on this stuff, but that's where I'm coming from.
   
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on September 21, 2008, 03:49:35 PM
Wayne999:

I too echo Angus' statements below about congenital curvature. If the actual truth was known, a very small percentage of men could be classified as having a completely straight penis. I am over 79 now, spent a lot of time in the military and civilian jobs where we shared showers, talked a lot about sex and sexual prowess. There are very few guys with straight rods out there. If you want to see a good site where there are hundreds of pictures of penises that show what I am talking about, go to this site:  www.ejacu.com

This site has many categories of pictures of all sizes, shapes, curves and very few straight ones. So, what we are saying is, and I am old enough to know, that if you have a HEALTHY penis even though curved to any degree that is not giving you pain or discomfort at any time leave it alone. You should just accept the fact that is what you were born with and use it your best advantage. There is no quick fix for congenital curve as far as I know except surgery. However, surgery in my book is the last resort and I would never consider that until I could no longer function sexual with what I had.

The above is the considered opinion of an old geezer who has been here a long time and seen a lot!!!

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LWillisjr on September 21, 2008, 06:34:29 PM
All,
My curiosity was peaked by another post (I forget who it was) about the angle of one's erection. I found the following site which also verifies as Old Man states that they come in all shapes, sizes, and angles...... and few are actually straight. This site also has some statistics I found interesting.

http://www.erectionphotos.com (http://www.erectionphotos.com)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: wayne999 on September 21, 2008, 11:19:33 PM
On that site lwillis posted, if you go to "full color pix" on that website and scroll down to the last guy who is aged 25 that is sort of what my situation is.

I've been to my first uro and he said because of my age he suspects that i do not have Peyronies Disease but congenital curvature. I'm going to get a 2nd opinion but i was just wondering if i have something congenital then maybe there is no point of getting a VED.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on September 22, 2008, 08:53:05 AM
Wayne,

You have mentioned having a theory about how it happened due to your style of masturbation starting when you were young. You may not be able to, but if you can recall whether or not the shape was the same back then, then you will have your answer as to whether or not it is congenital.

The VED may help if you have had mild ED, which you have described. You might want to discuss this with a good urologist - have you seen one  yet?

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: wayne999 on September 22, 2008, 08:34:37 PM
Tim:  The uro I saw asked me the same thing, but I am not able to recall that far back. This is probably why he thinks it is simply congenital (because i've had it for a long time), but my instinct tells me that the style i employed (face down on stomach) would have surely done some sort of damage. In terms of ED, i think i may have jumped the gun on that because i was a bit worried by everything so i don't think i actually have any ED issues.

The uro said he could feel the lower 1/3 of my flaccid penis (from the point of waisting down to the base) as being somewhat tougher. You'll recall that i said before an ultrasound basically showed i had no problems. The uro said that this thickening was mild so it would not show up on an ultraosound. I can also specifically see 2 small chord-looking things or bumps on either side of my unit that when i gently massage to feel them i notice that they are harder than the surrounding tissues. But the uro thought it was congenital and gave me all the usual dont worry about it assurances.....so i'll try to get a 2nd opinion. I brought up the idea of VED but he said he wasnt familiar with that.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Toby on September 22, 2008, 09:45:14 PM
Hi guys: Just checking with a progress report. I am sorry to  say that after 12 weeks of ved therapy, I am noticing a worsening of my condition. When using C tube I have begun noticing an upward curve while inside the cylinder. This started about 2 weeks ago. I am also noticing a leftward bend when in the process of getting an erection. It goes away after I achieve an erection, but it is still disturbing to see this. When I started using vacuum therapy my penis was straight as an arrow inside the cylinder and it is upsetting to see this curve. Up to this point I thought I thought I was doing fairly well with the therapy. I was wondering if I should just use A and B cylinders. Any thoughts any one. Hang in there guys. I continue to pray for all of us.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on September 22, 2008, 11:52:44 PM
Hang in there toby - just keep plodding on - i think i am getting a bit straighter - been going for around 12 wks now...
Title: Toby
Post by: Angus on September 23, 2008, 01:58:36 AM

    Reduce the vacuum pressure and use the A and B cylinders for a while; take it easy. I thought you posted a while back that at 11 weeks of therapy you had the upward curve still, but now you're just noticing an upward curve at 12 weeks? Has it stayed the same or increased? I'm trying to understand your progression. I can say with confidence that 12 weeks of VED use isn't near enough time for lasting results. Continue with the small cylinders but back off the vacuum and stop way before any pain starts. Old Man and others will jump in tomorrow with thoughts.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/how to use
Post by: Old Man on September 23, 2008, 02:40:25 PM
Toby:

I agree with Angus, you have not allowed enough time on the therapy with the VED to realize any lasting results. If you have not been following the protocol to the letter with regard to the exact cylinder for each exact week, you should probably start over from week 1. The three cylinder VEDs are so designed that the progression of the cycles from the small cylinder to the large cylinder is to provide a progressive approach to the amount of vacuum applied to one's penis. The penis must be "taught" to get used to the additional vacuum that the VED exerts over the amount of natural blood flow into the erectile chambers.

Since the chambers have not been filled with the extra amount of blood for so long, they tend to shrink up and have to stretched ever so slow so that they will retain the new position. Anyway, just consider continuing with the protocol whether or not you start over with Week 1 or not. It is my firm belief that you can and will receive at least some benefit from the vacuum therapy. As Angus says, back off on the amount of vacuum pressure you are using and let your penis get used to the pull of the modified vacuum.

Will be glad to field any questions you have about vacuum therapy, so feel free to ask.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: wayne999 on September 24, 2008, 03:40:51 AM
With the different cylinders each week, what's the science behind that? I mean, isn't that something that OldMan just "guesstimated" and it seeminlgy worked for him (and then in consultation with the suppliers OldMan suggested such a protocol, which is why we see it on the sellers' websites).

I'm still unsure of the potential risks of using VED. I mean, if improvement of curvature were to occur why wouldn't that simply be a case of another plaque forming on the opposite side of the shaft...because all you are basically doing is trying to "bend" it back to horizontal?

Where i stand at the moment is that I think my symptoms are Peyronies Disease, but thus far ultrasounds and 1 uro do not think so. I will see another uro before making a choice about VED.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on September 24, 2008, 11:17:12 AM
wayne999:

I am truly sorry that you take the position you do about even trying the VED therapy. No, what is posted by me about the three cylinder VED and the protocol for it's use is NOT A GUESS OR ESTIMATE on my part. It the result of many hours of testing by the company that makes the VEDs and my experience in working this other Peyronies Disease sufferers. In addition, there is a test clinic underway in Birmingham, AL by a urology group that will sometime in the future post their results of over 1,000 patients with their success or failure from using a three cylinder VED. Early reports from that urology group indicate much success with the three cylinder VEDs being used by many patients.

The three cylinder model VEDs are designed for specific purposes in the treatment of Peyronies Disease by experience of these companies in their many years of research and development. This includes input by users that have Peyronies Disease and experienced the problems it presents. The three cylinders take the penile therapy all the way from the base line of symptoms to any success that is realized from the specified protocol. Confining the penis in the small cylinder makes it possible for the penis to be held as straight as possible in order for it to be remolded and reshaped by repeated cycles.

What you are doing by waiting to see another urologist is waisting valuable time in which you could be at least trying for some results with a VED. In the meantime, please show me any good results that has been posted on this forum by anyone using other methods of treatment. I don't recall seeing a single poster that has shown results any better than VED usage. Maybe they have success and just don't come back on the forum to report it, huh?

The VED does not warrant to anyone 100% results. In fact, from my research of VED usage, even the companies that make them only claim 80 to 90 percent success rates. The other percentages of users do benefit from their therapy even if only to keep healthy erectile tissue.

So, bottom line, before you go off on a tanget about VED usage, check out the facts. If I sound kind of upset about this subject, I am. I spend much time and effort to report only the facts from my experience of many years of Peyronies Disease problems and that of others.  I have worked under the supervision of a board certified urologist in my home town with many Peyronies Disease patients for many years now. For over the past 50 plus years of having this horrible mess much information has passed under the bridge of life for me about what it is and how to "treat" it.

I feel that my experience has qualified me to speak with authority about VED usage for Peyronies Disease as well as ED.

Old Man

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Toby on September 24, 2008, 11:27:17 AM
Old Man: I am in the middle of week 13.I posted week 12 but was mistaken. I have been following the posted protocol to the letter. I have not missed one day. I will continue plugging away. Angus I posted earlier that I used to be straight inside the cylinder. I no longer am. Without the cylinder the curve is much greater. C cylinder is the largest, correct? I am straight inside A and B, but not C. The restrictions of A and B do not allow curving. At least not that I can notice. I was wondering if I should just use A and B or stick to the protocol. Ill give it some thought. Thank you guys again for your input . You are a valuable resource.I will keep you guys posted. I hope everybody using ved posts progress reports. They  are very valuable.Hang in there all.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices / protocol
Post by: Old Man on September 24, 2008, 11:51:49 AM
Toby:

I would strongly urge you to stick with the prescribed schedule of cylinders with the 26 week protocol. The schedule is so designed to give a regimen of "workout" for one's penis so that varying degrees of vacuum pressure is exerted in the erectile tissue and tunica.

If you have varied from the prescribed cylinders for the week's schedule, you might want to start over from Week 1 of the schedule and use only moderate pressure to prevent overpumping the vacuum. Over pumping and prolonged therapy sessions seems to be a common thing with guys wanting to see results in a hurry. VED therapy is a prolonged process and one must have patience to stick with the course.

I realize that Peyronies Disease can be very upsetting, especially with one in their prime of life. Since my Peyronies Disease struck at an early age, I very well realize the anxiety of anyone that has this horrible mess.

So, just decide if you want to resume the schedule where you are now or start over at week one.  Whatever you decide, be patient and stay with it. Let me know if I can help in any way.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: wayne999 on September 24, 2008, 09:31:00 PM
OldMan:
Sorry if i came off sounding the wrong way, i am just trying to figure out if VED is for me. That's why i want to see if another uro will hint at Peyronies Disease, because from what i understand if it is congenital then the only thing you can do is surgery. Off tangent, you don't perhaps receive some remuneration from the makers of these devices, Oldman, for helping them closely with their designs ??

I am still wondering if improvement of curvature were to occur couldn't that simply be a case of another plaque forming on the opposite side of the shaft...because all you are basically doing is trying to "bend" it back to horizontal?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/compensation
Post by: Old Man on September 24, 2008, 10:40:10 PM
wayne999:

First, let me make one thing (in the words of Richard Nixon) perfectly clear! I am NOT on the payroll of any company NOR do I receive any compensation of any kind for what work is done in trials or testing of VEDs for any company.

What I do is to simply test the demo models for flaws, product deficiencies or any correction that can be made to make the VEDs better for use. These are very few and far between as the current models are simply some of the best ever produced in medical quality.

Sometimes, I do get to keep the demo model for my personal use simply because once they are used, they can no longer be used by others for sanitary reasons.

Now, about your decision to use or not to use a VED for therapy. If what you have is a congenital curve, VED therapy WILL NOT IN MOST CASES be of any benefit in correcting the curvature. As far as I know, surgery is about the only "cure", if you can call it that, for correcting a congenital curve. If in fact you do indeed have Peyronies Disease, then the VED therapy can and will help in most cases.

You should get a definitive answer as to whether or not you have Peyronies Disease before proceeding with any serious VED therapy. VED therapy is a long term treatment and must be approached with patience and not rushed into without considering all the factors. It has been proven to be of benefit to many guys on and off this forum. So make sure you have Peyronies Disease before proceeding, etc.

Old Man

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on September 24, 2008, 10:49:55 PM
Wayne, in answer to your question, there HAS been a tremendous amount of trial and error in chosing a method for use of the VED.

Although the three cylinder program, and the specific schedule are what they are, there is no "rule" that says this is the only way to do things. We debate (seemingly endlessly) here on how long to pump for, and how much pressure to use, and the wisdom of the different cylinders.

I did not find much value in the protocol, but when I ended it, I switched to primary use of the narrow cylinder, for that seemed to do the most to straighten things up.

The main thing is this: there is a treatment that helps many (but not all men) who use it. It is safe if not over used (or pressures are not too high). It is more affordable than many other therapies (for which you will NOT find men here talking about how helpful it has been, like "pills" to enlarge the penis, or enzymes, etc). So why talk about it? Why not just try it?

Tim

spoken as someone who challenged the thought behind all of it for a long time, and then just tried it and found myself better
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Angus on September 25, 2008, 12:25:20 AM
Quote from: wayne999 on September 24, 2008, 09:31:00 PM
OldMan:
Sorry if i came off sounding the wrong way, i am just trying to figure out if VED is for me. That's why i want to see if another uro will hint at Peyronies Disease, because from what i understand if it is congenital then the only thing you can do is surgery. Off tangent, you don't perhaps receive some remuneration from the makers of these devices, Oldman, for helping them closely with their designs ??

I am still wondering if improvement of curvature were to occur couldn't that simply be a case of another plaque forming on the opposite side of the shaft...because all you are basically doing is trying to "bend" it back to horizontal?

     Wayne, you're over-thinking this. The thought that curves are straightened by forming a plaque on the other side is absurd. You may be confusing this with plication surgery which DOES shorten the other side. The two are not remotely the same. We are talking here about re-modeling a penis through vacuum therapy and the discussion isn't carried to the molecular level as this is a message board to provide support to those with Peyronies Disease, not compose papers for Science or Nature periodicals. There is no mystery; if you want to try a VED, then get one and try it and see what you get. Others have, and found improvement. If all you hear is "nothing can be done except surgery", then get a VED, use it and try to prove it wrong? The VED, when used RESPONSIBLY will not harm you.
     Old Man has stated in many, many of posts, probably hundreds here, that he does not recieve compensation for endorsement of any VED from anyone... have you actually read past posts and studied the forum threads? He also states in almost every post that his text represents his thoughts only, gained from years and years of fighting the effects of Peyronies Disease, Erectile Dysfunction and Radical Prostatectomy. These are horrid, debilitating conditions that strike absolute fear in the hearts of all men. He chooses, instead of getting lost in despair, to be on this forum and share thoughts and techniques that work for many men. His advice and experience with VED's has brought relief, comfort and resolution to many, many men. I do not believe you have read Old Mans, or for that matter many other posts very far back in this and other threads; if you had read thoroughly you would not come to a conclusion that would drive you to hint that Old Man is in this for money. We all get paid the same here; zero. We're here because we want to help nurture the RESPONSIBLE discussion of the effects of Peyronies Disease, current treatments and studies, and how men can help THEMSELVES.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: wayne999 on September 25, 2008, 06:05:46 AM
Quote from: Angus on September 25, 2008, 12:25:20 AM
Quote from: wayne999 on September 24, 2008, 09:31:00 PM
OldMan:
Sorry if i came off sounding the wrong way, i am just trying to figure out if VED is for me. That's why i want to see if another uro will hint at Peyronies Disease, because from what i understand if it is congenital then the only thing you can do is surgery. Off tangent, you don't perhaps receive some remuneration from the makers of these devices, Oldman, for helping them closely with their designs ??

I am still wondering if improvement of curvature were to occur couldn't that simply be a case of another plaque forming on the opposite side of the shaft...because all you are basically doing is trying to "bend" it back to horizontal?

     Wayne, you're over-thinking this. The thought that curves are straightened by forming a plaque on the other side is absurd. You may be confusing this with plication surgery which DOES shorten the other side. The two are not remotely the same. We are talking here about re-modeling a penis through vacuum therapy and the discussion isn't carried to the molecular level as this is a message board to provide support to those with Peyronies Disease, not compose papers for Science or Nature periodicals. There is no mystery; if you want to try a VED, then get one and try it and see what you get. Others have, and found improvement. If all you hear is "nothing can be done except surgery", then get a VED, use it and try to prove it wrong? The VED, when used RESPONSIBLY will not harm you.

I wasn't confusing it with plication, i was just throwing up an idea. Would it be possible though in the case of a congenital curve to damage one's penis with VED, based on the idea that if the curvature is caused by a congenital case of one chamber being longer than the other (or something like this) , then forcing the shorter chamber to straighten up would cause microbleeds/scarring etc ?

Another quesiton i have: You are supposed to use the VED to achieve a state similar to what you could get when naturally fully erect i assume. Has anyone experienced whilst pumping that they achieve their "natural" girth level but find that the "natural" length is not achieved? (thus you would have to pump more to get the length but at the risk of doing too much on the girth). I suppose this question is based on the notion of how drawing blood in from the pressure is different to the body doing it naturally.

Angus: I have read the summary pages in the child board area. Thanks for everyones input, just trying to make an informed decision.

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/problems with overpumping
Post by: Old Man on September 25, 2008, 10:22:12 AM
wayne999:

I am beginning to realize that you are over thinking things about VED usage. VED usage in the case of congenital curve should be only if one cannot achieve a natural erection. Vacuum applied to the erectile chambers should be similar even though the chambers may or may not be longer than each other. However, if one has congenital curves, has ED and needs artificial help for erections, VEDs can and will be an immense tool (no pun intended) to assist one for the problem.

It has been stated, oh so many times, on this forum that VED usage must be approached with extreme caution not to use too high a vacuum pressure. As with any device, using too much force will surely lead to serious problems. So, in VED usage, caution in how they are used is of utmost importance.

Based on my many years of experience in VED usage, along with other therapies, I have learned that moderation is the best approach to any therapy for ED and Peyronies Disease. So, again, if you are satisfied that you only have congenital curve(s) and do not need assistance with ED, maybe the VED therapy should not be used by you. You and you alone can determine if the VED approach is right for you. On the other hand, VED therapy would probably not do you any harm if used carefully. Remember our caution: if it causes pain or discomfort in any manner, cease using the VED and find out the case of the problem.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/problems with overpumping
Post by: wayne999 on September 25, 2008, 07:35:53 PM
OldMan:
I didn't mean to ask if VED was specifically for a sole case of congenital curve (without ED etc.). Rather, i was just wondering that in the possibility of my case not being Peyronies Disease and instead being congenital, would the VED do any damage. Because it would seem to me in this case that one is not stretching any scar tissue but is trying to "remodel" normal tissue, so i am not sure if that is of any concern.

I've got another uro appointment but there is a 1mth wait.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/congenital curvatures
Post by: Old Man on September 25, 2008, 09:08:39 PM
wayne999:

Please read the last paragraph of my previous post. I stated that if in fact have a congenital curve and not Peyronies Disease, that VED usage may not be for you. I really don't think that VED usage could hurt anything as long as you used it in moderation. It does provide much more blood flow into the corporal chambers than a natural erection, so over pumping in that case can and will cause further damage.

Again, only you can determine through consultation with a qualified uro whether or not you have Peyronies Disease and if you should use VED therapy. As has been said many times on this forum, we are not uros and therefore cannot and will not diagnose anything for anybody on the forum.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/congenital curvatures
Post by: newguy on September 25, 2008, 09:40:50 PM

I have read the odd posting elsewhere from people with congenital curves finding that their curves have improved slightly due to use of traction or VED. However these accounts are certainly few and far between. On a more cautionary note, I have also read of peoples curves becoming "more" pronounced. Congenital curves are of course not the ideal but I can't help feeling that its better to have a stable congenital curve, than an unstable peyronies condition. Whatever you do, please don't take a gung-ho approach.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: CHRISTODOULOU on September 26, 2008, 12:56:58 PM
Hi Old Man

I trust you are well

Thanks for all your help re my brother's Peyronie. He has surprised me by telling me that he uses two cylinders b and c 4 to 5 pumps every 15 to 20 seconds to get erection and then holds for 20 seconds and then releases and then repeats a further 9 times every day for 6 months

His UK uro prescribed this procedure for him. He, therefore, as you can see uses 2 not 3 cylinders. Should he be using 3 and if so is the above exercises he is taking correct?

Finally is there any info and/or studies that show that certain foods and uncircumcision increase chances of Peyronie's and that certain herbal teas act as remedies?

Sorry for the many questions

Take care

Christodoulou
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices Regimen for use
Post by: Old Man on September 26, 2008, 02:16:03 PM
Christodoulou:

The procedure that your brother's UK uro prescribes for use by him is somewhat different from the usual 26 week protocol that most of us on the main forum use.

Our three cylinder VED protocol is listed in the VED section of the Childs Board forum. This can be located by logging in and going to the Home Page. You will see the main links in the middle of that page. Select the Childs Board link and it will take you to the listing of the topics on the board. Select the VED one and it will bring up the posts about VED usage from the members.

There are two protocols listed there: one is for the three cylinder purchased model VEDs and one for the VEDs that have been made by members themselves. You will need to select the one for the three cylinder purchased models.

You should bring this to the attention of your brother so that he can discuss it with his uro in the UK. We have found that the three cylinder protocol works best for Peyronies Disease therapy. His uro may want to use a modified procedure so it would be up to them to decide which is best, etc.

There has been some discussion on the forum about certain foods, medicines and other things that may or may not cause or affect Peyronies Disease. I know of no one that specifically states that they were the cause Peyronies Disease. Whether or not a person is circumcised or not does not appear to make any difference in the realm of Peyronies Disease. This subject has been the brunt of various heavy discussions in earlier posts on the forum, so I won't go there. But, bottom line, I know of not one person who has stated that circumcision was the cause of their Peyronies Disease.

Hopefully, the above helps with your questions. If not, just let me know and I will endeavor to find an answer for you.

Old Man

PS: Yes, I am doing quite well for such an old codger!!!
Title: VED in active phase
Post by: newguy on September 26, 2008, 02:44:57 PM

Old man - Was any consensus ever reached over whether the VED should be used in an active phase of peyronies? Of course "everybody is different" and there-in lies the problem, but do you think that there is more to be gained by using the VED in what appears to be an active stage, or rather waiting until nature (or un-nature) takes its course and more stability is present (even though in some cases that point is a long time coming)? I suppose the upside of starting VED therapy early is that the ability to reshape scar tissue in the early stages is possibly maximised. The downside may be that inflammation could "possibly" be prolonged. What's your view?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices Time of therapy
Post by: Old Man on September 26, 2008, 04:44:10 PM
newguy:

You have asked the 64K dollar question. There have been many schools of thought about this subject. I used the VED with the active stage and when it was over the active stage. Both had about the same results. Since I have several bouts of Peyronies Disease, many and varied therapies were tried. Some worked and some did not. So, based on my many years of struggling with this horrible mess, IMHO VED therapy should be started as soon as possible after confirming that Peyronies Disease was diagnosed.

However, with this caveat, I strongly recommend that when inflammation is present, that only a minimal amount of vacuum pressure be used. This way, you preclude the possibility of aggravating it. IMHO, the stretching during this stage does help with keeping healthy blood flowing into and out of the corporal chambers to promote penile health as well as possibly helping with the scar tissue, plaque and other symptoms.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: CHRISTODOULOU on September 26, 2008, 06:06:48 PM
Thanks Old Man, very helpful. I gave him a copy of the protocol when I was recently in the UK. ''Old codger''? That's a Cockney/Londoner's phrase too! Ok then, respect to you for being a very helpful old codger :-)

Thanks again

Christodoulou
Title: OldMan VED history
Post by: wayne999 on September 26, 2008, 11:53:19 PM
OldMan:
You said you'd used the VED during the active phase, which is usually classified as the first 6 to 18 months after onset. I also remember you saying you developed Peyronies Disease after trauma at around age 24. Does this mean you were using VED's some 50 odd years ago? Because i think i remember you saying you had a radical prostate surgery back in 1995, and started using VED for ED purposes? In that case, you and your uro wern't specifically using VED for Peyronies Disease but for ED? It just came as a positive side effect that you had curvature improvement?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/First usage
Post by: Old Man on September 27, 2008, 10:27:48 AM
wayne999:

I guess my statements got mixed up in the translation. The VED was not available in the 1950s as far as I know or at least it was not made known to me at the time. Most treatments then consisted only of huge quantities of vitamin E and Potabo.

After the radical surgery in 1995, all of the other methods of "treatment" were tried before the VED was introduced to me. None of the pills, physical therapy by hand manipulation, or the penile Verapamil injections helped. An Osbon Classic (two separate piece VED connected by a hose) was prescribed by my uro. This one was used until the Osbon Esteem one piece unit was made available to me at half price. The Esteem model was the "workhorse" model that produced the best results for me.

Yes, the VED was first used in 1995 by me for ED as well as therapy for Peyronies Disease. The restrictor rings were only applied after an erection with the VED for sexual activity. No rings are ever used for Peyronies Disease therapy with a VED, so be sure to remember that.

Old Man
Title: Re: Wayne - Active Phase
Post by: Hawk on September 27, 2008, 11:53:59 AM
Wayne,

Your question assumes that there is only  one "Active Phase" to a patients Peyronies Disease.  This is a misconception.  Many men experience many active phases of Peyronies Disease progression in their lives.  It is common enough that one could ask if it is typical.

Old Man has chronicled several active bouts with Peyronies Disease over his 50 year struggle.   
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Lazer on September 27, 2008, 12:23:49 PM
Hello,  I have 2 questions.
  Q1. on the 26 week protocol, I have individual cylinders. Many recommend 10-20 minutes per day. If you inflate for 10 seconds, deflate for 10 seconds and do it 10 times , that is less than 4 minutes. What am I missing? Should you deflate for only a few seconds or for 10? 20? 30?  would 30 seconds inflate and 15 seconds deflate be a good program? How do you fill the 20 minutes?

Q2. I already have a 1.5, 1.75, and 2.25.  Should I replace the 2.25 with the recommended 2.0?   

thanks
Lazer
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Length of time for VED cycles
Post by: Old Man on September 27, 2008, 05:06:26 PM
lazer:

I don't think that you should go to the trouble of getting/making a 2.0 inch cylinder. The 2.25 inch one you have is not that much larger overall.

Just reviewed the separate cylinder VED protocol and it is considered ample for directions on how to use your VED. Just use each separate cylinder exactly as stated for each week's schedule as shown in the table of weeks by the letter.

The amount of time that you do the workout each day would depend on how well you tolerate the vacuum pressure without causing problems such as pain or discomfort in any form. My exercise regimen each day lasted anywhere from 10 minutes to 20 based on how my daily schedule allowed.

This is the way that I did the cycles: pumped up to a comfortable level of vacuum, held the vacuum for about 10 to 15 seconds, released the pressure while continuing to keep a tight seal around the base of my penis. Then repeated this cycle over and over for the entire period of time allotted for that day's exercise.

This is,, in a way, a bit modified from the protocol, but each person can vary his procedure to suit his individual needs, etc. Just basically stay on the prescribed method and weekly schedule by the lettered cylinder for that week.

Since you are using the separate cylinder models of VEDs, you can use your best judgment as to what you desire from the vacuum therapy base on the time you have available each day.

Should you have further questions, don't hesitate to ask.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Length of time for VED cycles
Post by: shendo on September 29, 2008, 11:13:18 PM
I am new to this forum, and am not sure whether I am posting correctly, but Does anyone have any experience with Penile Extension Devices in Peyronies Disease treatment?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: wayne999 on September 30, 2008, 08:27:55 AM
What do people think about this:

"Men with Peyronies Disease (acquired penile curvature) or congenital penile curvature, with significant degrees of curvature should be discouraged from using a vacuum device as the straight cylinder may exert significant stress on the curved penis resulting in trauma to the already bent shaft of the penis".

http://www.cornellurology.com/sexualmedicine/ed/vacuum.shtml

This is something I was alluding to when i was asking about if forcing the curved penis to be straight would result in other trauma/plaques being formed.
Title: VED's, congenital curves, Cornell article
Post by: Angus on September 30, 2008, 10:43:45 AM

   This article is representative of standard indications and suggestions concerning VED's and where they may be helpful. Concerning congenital curves, the article somewhat agrees with what we've been saying on the forum: the VED MAY result in stress and trauma by straightening an already bent penis. Further down, the article does say "...and if used in a proper fashion no long-term negative effects will have occurred." The key word is PROPER FASHION. The article mentions a max vacuum of -200-250 mm Hg. This is why you read so much in the forum about safety and going easy and slow with the VED. The forum can show you where to buy VED's, how to make them and provides a safe method of use for them. The forum cannot supervise an individuals use of the VED. There is no control over how much an individual pumps that the forum can go by... it may be not enough, or may be too much. An individual may buy a VED, pump it up way too much and turn red and swollen then post here that the VED is the worst and should be avoided. We have no way of knowing what conditions preceded individual accounts of VED results unless the poster uses the written word well and describes exactly the conditions under which the VED was used.
   We can present the VED and it's use to help Peyronies. The decision to use a VED is the individuals. An individual must decide for himself whether he can use a VED responsibly enough to not put unreasonable stress on the penis whether it's used for ED or Peyronies. Again, I can't say anything about congenital curves because I don't know. But I can say that anyone who makes the decision to use the VED really has no choice but to follow the guidelines of responsible use.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Footnote to Angus' Cornell VED facts
Post by: Old Man on September 30, 2008, 12:16:30 PM
Note to all:

I echo Angus' comments about the Cornell article. Some months ago, I was in contact with Dr. John Mulhull who, at that time was on the urology board of the college. (He may still be on the urology board for all I know at present).  He and I discussed the use of VEDs in various atmospheres and we came to the mutual conclusion that VEDs, if properly used, can and will help with Peyronies Disease symptoms. (Whether or not he still holds to that conclusion or not is not known by me at this time.)

As Angus states in his post below, the individual is in complete control of how he uses a VED. None of us on the forum have the exact same penis. Each individual has different skin, some thick, some thin, some sensitive and others tough, etc. So, there is no way that anyone of this or any forum can present the actual way a VED is used by that individual. Vacuum pressure used is relative to each individual, so be aware of what your own limits are and adhere to them safely. You are hereby forewarned again as to proper VED usage and get the facts before embarking into VED therapy.

It has been stated from the get go on this and other forums that I have posted on that caution is the watch word in VED usage. Bottom line to this whole VED scenario is that each individual must be the judge of what is the right and proper way to approach VED therapy. We can only suggest that the protocol that is posted in the VED section of the Child Boards be followed to the letter and with caution even then.

The above carries my usual caveat that they are simply my personal opinions formed after many years of experience with and without VED usage.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's, congenital curves, Cornell article
Post by: wayne999 on September 30, 2008, 06:37:43 PM
Quote from: Angus on September 30, 2008, 10:43:45 AM

   This article is representative of standard indications and suggestions concerning VED's and where they may be helpful. Concerning congenital curves,


Angus:
It said congenital curves OR Peyronies Disease. I appreciate all the stuff you're saying about pressure etc. but the article seems to allude to the fact that bending of ANY curved penis in the cylinder is not a good thing.
Title: Wayne
Post by: Angus on September 30, 2008, 08:48:55 PM

   Well, like my dad used to say... once all is said and done, there's nothing left to say or do.
   I answered with thoughts about Peyronies VED use and made no comment about congenital curves because I have no information about that. One can read anything one wants on the internet; you can't surf or Google Peyronies without tripping over article after  article. After years of research and reading though, one has to make up ones mind as to which to believe. You'll have to decide for yourself how to proceed.
Title: Re:Wayne- Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on September 30, 2008, 09:41:33 PM
I echo Angus' comments, Wayne.

You are not going to "figure this out" - you are going to have to take steps. We are discussing doing something (using the VED) that has helped more of us than most treatments. We for the most part know if we have congenital or acquired curvatures. It is not complicated - try it or don't try it (and there are plenty here who have not tried it). But it is not that complicated.

I posted a case report about two years ago about someone GETTING Peyronie's Disease after using the VED. But I would like to point out that he used it at a vacuum pressure that was about 40 times more negative than any of us use. But if you look hard enough, you will always find something positive and negative about these treatments.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on October 08, 2008, 04:55:56 AM
OLDMAN - my relatively new VED from Fitzz just broke - its only 3months old and I doubt I can return it etc due to not being in the USA - can you recommend a VED thats not battery powered and will be a bit more sturdy as I always knew that this would break one day.

cheers
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/replacement unit
Post by: Old Man on October 08, 2008, 02:19:14 PM
Iceman:

Sorry to hear that the unit broke down. I do not recommend for anyone to purchase the battery powered models for the reason they do break easily. The manual pumps are very much more durable. I can't remember where you purchased the unit, but try to get them to honor any warranty first. If it is an Augusta Medical unit, they should have some outlet in your country to help. Also, contact the Fitzz company and ask what they can do to help.

I have not clue as to what the warranty might be from Fitzz. Augusta requires their warranties to be activated by the user before they will honor them. That is, once a unit is put into service, the user should send in the card or activate by call or internet.

The Vitality OTC Plus model from Fitzz seems to be the best unit out there now.  You should go to their web site and check it out if you do have to buy another one.

Let me know what I can do to help further.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on October 08, 2008, 06:19:32 PM
OLDMAN:

do you mean this:

http://www.fitzz.com/Vitality-Ultra-Ease-Manual-OTC-Vacuum-Therapy-Device_p_1981.html

cheers
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Fitzz Manual Ease
Post by: Old Man on October 08, 2008, 06:45:23 PM
Iceman:

No, the one I suggest is the Vitality OTC Plus three cylinder manual model, cost= $229.99 with free shipping and handling.

Open the home page of Fitzz website, locate sexual health link the left column, find the link to the men's sexual products. It will/should bring up the page of the OTC model. You may have to look at several links to reach the right one.

This is the one that several guys on the forum have purchased and are using.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on October 08, 2008, 07:00:36 PM
Hi OLDMAN - sorry to pester you but the Augusta one that I emailed you the link on is half the price - id there anything wrong with this model  - whats the benefit of using the fitzz product over the cheaper product - i guess its $229 vs $109..

many thx
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/right choice
Post by: Old Man on October 08, 2008, 09:47:55 PM
Iceman:

No problem, glad to help. The difference is that the Ultra Ease has only the one large cylinder and cannot be used for the 26 week protocol which calls for the three cylinders.

The Vitality model is basically the same as the much higher priced Somaerect VED. And, the price is less one half the price of the Somaerect. I suppose that you could use the one cylinder model for therapy, but with lessor results and could take longer, etc.

Again, I recommend the Vitality model over the Ultra.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: mikemck on October 09, 2008, 12:34:07 AM
If you want to order the unit from Fitzz, you can receive a 10% discount by using the coupon code "TEAM".

I just ordered one as my first action to do something  about my Peyronies Disease other than wish it wasn't so.

I really appreciate the information and community here.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Jim.55 on October 09, 2008, 11:25:21 PM
Old Man and others:

I have lurked here for a few years.  This is my first post, so forgive me if I am not following proper protocol or posting under the wrong discussion.

I have two questions:

1 – Assume someone has congenital curvature.  Does it generally show up as a child and remain the same, or does it worsen with age ?  I had mild curvature as a teenager, but now at age 43 it is worse.  I would say it has progressed steadily over the years.

2 – What group in Birmingham is conducting a trial with VEDs ?

Thanks.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/congenital curvature
Post by: Old Man on October 10, 2008, 12:52:38 PM
Jim55:

First, quit lurking and join in with your posts. (Just kidding of course!) But, you do need to lend your experience to the forum. The more information posted here helps others in a way that we may not know if one does not post.

Congenital curvature has been a mystery to men since the beginning of recorded medical history. There seems to be no solution or answers as to why some children are born with it and others develop it during early childhood. Who knows!

If you have no pain with curvature, can still have normal sex and nothing else doesn't work properly, you most likely have nothing to worry about. Just throwing this in, but do get your prostate checked on a regular basis. As you reach older ages, the prostate must be kept healthy as well as your body health.

At 43, you are beginning the "downhill" side of life and more and more problems with your body are going to enter the picture. You should get regular medical checkups for overall medical problems. Preventive medicine is far more appropriate than remedial medicine.

Anyway, again if you are not experiencing problems with your penile curvature, just do watchfull waiting and get regular physicals.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Jim.55 on October 12, 2008, 08:17:23 PM
Old man:

I am a relatively healthy person, regular physicals, etc.  The curvature is about 45'.  It does not interfere with anything, but if a VED or something else might help I would give it a try.  My wife made a really ugly comment about it a couple years ago and I can't seem to get over it.

I saw a doctor at Vanderbilt in Nashville.  He "prescribed" the VED device from Augusta (at the time was available only by prescription).  I didn't give it a chance really, but I still have the device.  At the time I was unaware of congenital curvature.

On another note, I'm trying to figure out what causes or risk factors exist for fibrosis generally.  I note that I have increased tendonitis with age.  To me it stands to reason that if soft connective tissue easily becomes irritated in joints and such that it can happen in the penis as well.  So, I'm trying to solve the mystery of fibrosis, including examining the use of systemic enzymes.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/which model
Post by: Old Man on October 12, 2008, 10:24:47 PM
Jim.55:

Well, sometimes wives can be on the rough side when it comes to the sex issue. They just don't seem to want to talk about it. I know the feeling somewhat as mine does not like to discuss sex much either. She has had no problems with my using the VED either for Peyronies Disease exercises or going for sex.

If you curve is truly congenital and has not increased very much since early on in life, you might not want to use VED therapy. It won't do any harm though if done with moderation and careful use. We urge caution in just about every post about VED use that it should be approached with extreme caution no matter what. Fibrosis in one's penis does present a problem at any rate, so we all should try some method of reducing it, whether it be oral meds/supplements or vacuum therapy. VED therapy has helped many guys on and off this forum, so you might want to consider picking up where you left off and persue another course of action with it. At least, you will be keeping your penis more healthy with the better blood flow provided with vacuum therapy.

Let me know which exact model Augusta VED you have. If you have the old Osbon Esteem model, I can help you develop a protocol for using it. If you have the newer model Soma Correct or Somaerect, the protocol is listed in the Child Boards section of the home page on the main forum.

I will be glad to help in any way.

Old Man

P.S. I forgot me mention the group in Birmingham that is doing some trials with the three cylinder VEDs. Their address is:  Chris Spivey, P.A.
Urology Centers of Alabama, P.C. – Birmingham  You can do a google search to get phone numbers and other info. Chris is the woman in charge of the trials and she would be able to give you all the information.

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on October 13, 2008, 07:30:25 AM
Jim55
I was using the VED all wrong and had basically given up on it.
After a failed implant last October I found this forum and Old Man got me started on the right way to use the VED. That is coming up on a year now and have gained back about 1/2". Dr. at Vanderbilt said that was all I could get back because of the peyronies scar on top of my penis.
To complicate things I have corporal fibrosis from trying shots for ED. I have venous leakage also so the shots did little to no good. Stay away from shots for ED.
The other result of proper VED exercise is I now have a healthier penis. Even though I am 100% impotent my penis now feel normal.
Follow Old Man's protocol for the VED you have. It will take time to make a difference but you will be glad you did.
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Jim.55 on October 14, 2008, 04:15:49 PM
Old Man and Jackp:

Thanks for your input.  I have the exact 3 cylinder device touted in messages below.  I am a patient at Urology Centers of Alabama, P.C., although I have not been there in years.  I think I will go back and consult with them before resuming the VED.

Now, folks, I have an interesting and weird question that is likely to lead to some discussion and disagreement.  How many of us with Peyronie's have had a vasectomy ?  If this is not the appropriate folder, let me know what is.  I had an experience that is almost indescribable, but I will try if anyone is interested.

Old Man – I do have a LOT of information and experience with male issues that might be helpful to those on this forum.  You are right.  I need to share that information as difficult as it may be.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crazybrab on October 14, 2008, 07:26:55 PM
Wayne 999,

I'm posting my response to the 'histories/introduce yourself' thread here as it is more appropriate in the VED section.

I've seen a few urologists, some stated a VED would be un-natural, potentially dangerous, others had no comment. I recently visited a Urologist and extensively discussed VEDs with him. I've been greatly influenced by his opinion.

1. VEDs are, potentially dangerous and he has treated more than one case of VED-induced vascular ED.

2. As stated on this board by others, venous, low-oxygen blood is drawn in, serving very little purpose.

3. Exercising the penis by applying negative pressure is very un-natural and does not serve as a 'penis gym'. It stretches, un-naturally, the penis, which then returns to its former state. He provided a great example. Patients who require physical rehab after injury.They are not attached to some automated device that would repetitively stretch/move a limb. Instead, patients undergo physiotherapy where they have to take the initiative, give it the effort, and make their body parts move again. The will to overcome must come from within, and I see this is no different for penile injuries.

I endorse the concept of penile expansion/tunica stretching following injury, I just feel the process should be initiated from within, in a more natural way.

I have had great success in softening my plaque with regular, prolonged massage using cocoa butter. Following the instructions of my doctor, (no g/f at minute), I masturbate at least bi-daily to ensure regular expansion of the tunica/penis and further promote stretching of areas with plaque.

I maximise the blood flow to my penis by using between 25-50mg of sildenafil citrate during each exercise session. The usually produces an excellent erection during which I can feel slight tension in my penile plaque as it stretches.

I am somewhat lucky that my penis hinges to one side near the base of my penis, resulting in a straight, albeight, severely angulated penis. Further, my age plays in my favour, hopefully allowing the body to heal from within, as opposed to using any external devices.

Whilst in psychiatric care, I learnt self-hypnosis and other methods how to help over-ride subconscious processes within the body. I'm trying to develop these further and thats why I believe I'm having an excellent response to my efforts to repair from within.

I dont discount the eventual therapeutic use of a VED, I just believe repair initiated from within could produce better results in my case.

Old Man, Angus et al., I've read the entire VED board, many words of wisdom and much to be learnt, but a VED might be just a bit too premature for me!
God bless, and good luck!

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crazybrab on October 14, 2008, 07:48:36 PM
I just wanted to add:

I'm not trying to discredit VEDs at all, I just believe medicine has made progress and that it should be possible to intiate penile 'stretching' forces from within. The VED came before PDE5 Inhibitors, but with their arrival, I think its time, that in certain instances, one reconsiders the use of a VED.

PDE5 Inhibitors lead to smooth muscle relaxation in blood vessels supplying the corpus cavernosum, resulting in increased blood flow and an erection. Hence, there is more blood flowing into the penis through arteries. One has then got some four hours odd, to stimulate onself sufficiently and produce very rigid erections and stretch penile plaques and oxygenate the penis.

Yes it is more time-consuming than a VED, but I'm happy to give it the time. If one has some degree of erectile capacity that can be helped with PDE5 inhibitors, the penis could in theory expand sufficiently for therapeutic purposes.

Normal erections alone may not be rigid enough to promote maximum penile expansion due to presence of plaques, but a PDE5 inhibitor will hopefully give that extra 'push' similar to the VED a therapeutically stretch a penis with plaques.

Guys who have rigid erections (no ED) probably wont increase the rigidity of their erections, those with severe impotence probably wont benefit either.

Anyway, this is all my opinion, and so far I've had great success. Food for thought!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on October 14, 2008, 09:40:48 PM
Angus:

Do you want to address crazybrab's comments about the VED or do you want me to??

From his posts, one can gather where he came up with his user I.D.

Old Man
Title: crazybrab
Post by: Angus on October 15, 2008, 01:49:56 AM

   Welcome to the forum. I hope your plan of treatment has positive results, and I hope you keep us informed of how things progress. Healing from within is always the best way until there are no other options and one must recruit a little help.
   I understand your uros thoughts on the VED, but I wonder what his thoughts are based on whether they be experiences of patients or something else. When someone makes broad statements as you describe, I would really like to know how he came to those conclusions.
   VED's potentially dangerous? You bet they are. They are not a toy and not an entertainment device. They must be used in a responsible manner, and this manner and regimen referred to on this forum represents years and years of use by trial and error by many men and helpful urologists. This regimen has helped many men return from the dark side of Peyronies Disease. The VED will not help all men, but the men represented here who were helped by it got their results with careful, studied use of the VED with an applied regimen. If a man bought a VED, took it home and pumped up a whanger the size of the Hindenburg, you bet there's going to be consequences, and not good ones. There have been discussions about the use of a VED in the early, inflamed stage of Peyronies Disease, but solutions to this have been found based on easy pumping and time limits.
   Venous blood being drawn in serving no purpose... I disagree. The VED can be thought of as a re-modeling device. The blood pressure within a VED under vacuum can be greater than natural blood pressure provided by ones own body, but with studied use is not extreme. Penile tissues are stretched laterally and longitudinally and some of us agree that remodeling takes place because of this induced pressure.
   "Exercising the penis by applying negative pressure is very un-natural and does not serve as a 'penis gym"... I'm not sure where to start with that. Vacuum induced erections are not produced by body blood pressure and so could be thought of as un-natural in that respect. The small VED tube that holds a curved erection in a straight manner could be considered un-natural in the sense that a curved penis is being held in an un-natural straight state. But then, the penis USED to be straight, so the VED is reminding the penis what direction it's supposed to point. I think his reference to a "penis gym" is rather cynical and I would dismiss that as a whimsical comment. I would like to know how much the uro has read about VED use in regards to Peyronies Disease. I would like to know if he has searched out the facts about men who have successfully used the VED and gained positive results and got a straighter penis.
   Crazybrab I respect the fact that you've gone to the doctor and a urologist and are being active in finding a fix for your situation. I also understand that you've got other things going on in your life. I truly hope that the things you try have positive results for you. Post and let us know if the things you try have results of any kind and how you feel it's going for you.
   I'm not trying to out-logic you or argue. You must decide which direction you want to move. If you think the VED is a bit premature for your situation, go with that and do what you described. Let us know how you are doing. Just remember there are too many men, myself included, who have used and succeeded with the VED to discount it as a "penis gym" and when someone refers to a VED with cynicism and probably unsubstantiated statements regarding its safety, I'm going to jump on that pretty quickly. I truly hope you find some answers. We're all writing the book here... let us know how things go and add your own page.
   
   
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crazybrab on October 15, 2008, 07:22:26 AM
Angus,

Thanks for welcoming me to the forum, Its great to have access to such a wealth of information.

I'm not trying to out-logic anyone. I'm just adding my two cents worth and how I've been influenced by Uros.

I've read yours and Old Mans' VED posts and very nearly ordered a VED myself based on this forum alone, but for the time of being, I'm holding back.

My uro in the Czech Republic is the country's best, and he has an excellent knowledge of work by Levine and others. He works strictly in the private sector now. For the reasons outlined before, he does not recommend VED, but neither does he recommend surgery or some expensive drugs. He seems a pretty genuine guy and for the time of being, I'm going to go with the flow.

I'd also like to add one other concern I have about the VED. Angus, quite correctly, you state the VED models and stretches tissue in the Penis. The entire penis is subject to a vacuum, including all the delicate/complicated parts below the tunica. In the short term, the penis is remodelled, but I cant help but think that over the long-term ie. many years of use of the VED for maintenance/re-modelling the penis, there may be other side effects.

There are no studies to the best of my knowledge looking at chronic use of a VED for therapeutic reasons. Being a young guy (23), I just dont know how remodelling tissue with a VED could effect me 20-30 years down the line. I've already got pretty bad ED but I'm convinced once I stretch the plaque from within, my penis will once again engorge to previous levels, stopping venous outflow and massively improving my ED.

PDE5 Inhibitors produce erections of equal rigidity to those I had before penile trauma so I'm not stretching tissue beyond its natural limits, whereas with the VED, even if you don't feel pain, to what extent is the tissue really being (over)stretched?

Does the VED merely stretch existing tissue, or does it make cells multiply and grow in a healthy, long-term sustainable way? That is the $1m question and if someone can prove the latter is true, then I'll order my VED immediately and eat everything I previously said.

Crazybrab

BTW Old Man, I use Crazybrab as my user ID on pratically every forum on the web, its something I came up with during my crazy teenage years and I'm too used to it to change it!

My ideas are crazy, but as we all know, to beat peyronies one has got to go that extra mile.
Title: Crazybrab, VED's, natural erections
Post by: Angus on October 15, 2008, 12:06:01 PM

   I appreciate your uros approach. I truly hope it works, even a little bit, and has some positive results for you. I understand your concern with remodeled tissue via VED down the road 20 or 30 years. Old Man may comment on that as he has used the VED for many, many years and might have the best view on that subject. I've used it for 5 or so years with no adverse effects, but I know your interest is in the extreme long term. As you know, there is an extreme lack of documentation on legitimate VED use for Peyronies Disease, but there should be a LOT of information about the long term use of VED's for erectile dysfunction as men have been using them for years for ED. Again Old Man will have a handle on this and be able to add to the discussion.
   There is much mis-understanding and outright fear of the VED out there re: too much vacuum, damage, un-natural wierd erections and so forth. Plus there are lots of men that just don't want to put their penis in a clear tube and pump vacuum into it. For these plus other reasons there are men that will never pick up and use a VED and I'm fine with that and I'm not going to drive the subject in to the ground and try to talk them in to a VED. I can discuss the fears some men have with a VED especially when men have mis-conceptions about the VED and its use.
   Regarging the question "Does the VED merely stretch existing tissue, or does it make cells multiply and grow in a healthy, long-term sustainable way?" You have it right... that's a million dollar question. I vote for merely stretching tissue, but I'm unqualified to really answer that. I don't know if new cells grow in place of where damage was, but I think not. The cell structure of plaque and scar tissue may change but as far as expansion of mass, I don't think so.
   Since there is such a dearth of research and money spent on Peyronies Disease, we're going to ask a LOT of questions on this forum that have no research or studies and answers. You present interesting questions... stick around and discuss these things with us. Sometimes a question doesn't get an answer 'til its kicked around the field a while.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on October 15, 2008, 12:12:16 PM
I haven't posted for a while, but thought that it might be of some interest to note my personal progress using the VED. I have used the three tube VED and the 26 week protocol for about 3 months now.

Some good news  :) is that the curve is lessening, the plaque feels softer (psychlogical?), erections somewhat stronger, urine stream easier (I noted earlier that my use of Flomax had stopped).

The bad news:  :(no enlargement at all. That's ok, I think in time it may help.
In the meantime, I am going for my annual physical and will try to talk my GP into pentox.

BTW, it does take a little time to get into the habit and routine of using the VED. Takes 20 minutes or so including clean up, but it beats spending 2 hours sitting around griping about it!
Title: Re: Crazybrab
Post by: Hawk on October 15, 2008, 02:38:06 PM
Welcome,

I am about as neutral as anyone on the forum concerning the VED.  In fact is was probably my post suggested by my Sexual Dysfunction Uro that you refer to concerning oxygen depleted venous blood.

In my humble opinion, I think your uro makes a few good points and your logic has some sound basis.
I do think the analogy of physical therapy, penis gyms etc is a very flawed analogy that disregards science and reason however.  The penis is not a voluntary muscle that can be exercised in any way that is comparable to a voluntary muscle in physical therapy or a gymn.  In general terms the penis is specialized tissue requiring oxygen and healthy expansion to maintain penile health.  On a biochemical or cellular level it is more complex.  The only questions that arise from your post are:

1.  Is blood from a VED well oxygenated? I know of no one that has ever attempted to test the O2 levels of natural erections compared to VED erections.  One can assume VED's draw venous blood but that is assumption. One can as easily assume that arterial blood locked in a natural erection for 30 minutes becomes less oxygenated than VED blood drawn in and expelled 10 times over a 20 minute period.  One can assume that the venous valves prevent the venous blood from back-flowing and that arterial blood is drawn in. It is all assumption.  What is not assumption is that there are no reports here of damage by a VED other than a guy who reportedly had a GF far over pump his penis with a motorized non-medical VED to see if she could make it reach the end of the tube for her recreational amusement.  Many men have reported success.

2. How does a natural erection compare to a VED for tissue stretching.  The 3 cylinder attempts to stretch in a corrective direction.  A natural erection cannot do that.  A VED might be able to do that.  With a VED you have absolute control over the pressure so you can apply less than natural pressure, natural pressure, or more than natural pressure.  Suggesting a vacuum is unnatural makes no sense to me.  Natural erections are caused by pressure inside of the penis being greater than outside of the penis. This greater internal pressure is blood under pressure.  The erection results from increasing internal pressure over external pressure.  A VED reduces external pressure and results in greater pressure inside of the penis than outside of the penis.  The increased internal pressure inside of the penis is blood under greater pressure.  For a uro to pretend to know of some valid subtle difference to penile tissue without giving a study, or scientific research is just plain assumption and substituting poor analogies for science.

Hawk
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/long term usage
Post by: Old Man on October 15, 2008, 10:21:20 PM
Crazybrab:

In your posts you mentioned that long term usage caused damage to one's penis. As others has have posted facts that I would have stated in this post, I will not repeat them here.

I have been using three different model VEDs for way over 13 years now with no ill effects to my most prized possession. There were times when the VED therapy was first started that I overpumped the pressure with some minor skin irritations, but they were soon healed and therapy resumed with no further damage.

The VED has been the most viable solution for me for erections due to a non nerve sparing radical retropubic prostatectomy in April 1995. The VED was prescribed shortly after that when all other methods of achieving erections failed. Peyronies Disease re-occurred and I along with help from my uro developed a separate one cylinder regimen for the old Osbon Esteem VED. It took about 6 to 9 months to completely rid my penis of the curves and plaque/nodules. Some of this occurred during the Verapamil injections for the Peyronies Disease which totally failed.

So, bottom line is this, as far as anyone on this forum knows myself included, my experience with the VED therapy has gone on longer than anyone else here. I know of no plausible reason that any uro worth his salt can state for a fact that VED therapy is not a viable treatment for Peyronies Disease not to mention ED.

The above is based on my over 50 years of Peyronies Disease which first developed at the age of 24 and the many trial and errors trying to find some treatment for my Peyronies Disease along with ED during that time. There are many on this forum that will support my position on the VED simply because they have used it themselves and know for a fact that the protocol with the three cylinder VED when used with caution and in moderation can and will work to relieve one of Peyronies Disease symptoms.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: terryd on October 16, 2008, 11:33:33 AM
old man  got a ?  would it hurt to pump up for sex if you got Peyronies Disease.i can get up but not for long would Shir like to finish once.been on ved about 18 month 1/2 on home made ved witch i broke 2 times so bought fizz 3 clyinder other than being tapered it works fine money well spent.size has in proved curve comes and goes started withabout 45 degree.was down about 30 to 35 the harder i pump the worse the bend iv learnt to slow down(less presher)and it is easier to maintan what iv gained hope to keep gaining.thank you
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/pumping up for sex
Post by: Old Man on October 16, 2008, 12:15:04 PM
terryd:

You did not give me all the facts about how you pump for sex and whether or not you have to use a restrictor ring to hold up the erection. But, I will list the procedure that I use when going for an erection with the VED. As far as I know, there are no restrictions on using a VED for erections with Peyronies Disease if you do not experience any pain or discomfort when you pump up and use a restrictor ring to hold it up.

Since you have the three cylinder Fitzz unit, you do have a real good quality VED. Now, what I would suggest when you desire to use the VED for erections for sex is quite simple. You use only the large cylinder (C if it is lettered, unless you are small and need to use the B medium cylinder). If you have to use a restrictor ring to hold up the erection, (which you will if you cannot maintain a natural one), lubricate the outside mouth of the cylinder fairly well, lubricate the restrictor ring, then stretch it over the mouth of the cylinder and place it near the edge of the cylinder mouth. Lubricate the large sizing insert and inside of the mouth as far up as you can reach with a finger. Lubricate your penis somewhat so that it slides easily inside the cylinder.

Then once you have acquired a good tight seal around the base of your penis, start pumping up pressure slowly until you have acquired an erection hard enough for sex, (do not pump too high as the pressure tends to build up after the ring is slid off onto your penis) then slide the ring off the cylinder onto the shaft of your penis while holding the entire VED tight against your body to preclude losing the vacuum.

Be careful to practice doing this several times to make sure you can do it without losing the pressure and can have a firm enough erection to complete the sexual activity. You may lose a small amount of feeling while using the restrictor ring if you leave it on too long. 30 minutes is the maximum time you should leave the restrictor on before relieving the pressure. If you have not reached a climax and/or orgasm within this 30 minute window, remove the restrictor ring, wait a few seconds. Then you can pump up again and start over.

Again, be extremely cautious that you do not overpump the vacuum pressure at any time, whether you are exercising with the protocol for Peyronies Disease or going for an erection for sex. Practice is the key to achieving a good erection using a VED.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: terryd on October 16, 2008, 04:37:21 PM
old man iv never pumped for sex before  and will have to use restrictor just woned to make shure its ok thank you
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/restrictor rings
Post by: Old Man on October 16, 2008, 05:25:23 PM
terryd:

Yes, it is OK to use the restrictor ring when pumping up for sex. Just be careful to use one that does not fit too tight. There should be several rings that came with the VED. If not, you should try to get them because you will need one to hold up the erection.

Go back and read my post below to you about how to do the ring. Again, please be careful with this and practice using the ring several times to get the restrictor with the right amount of tension that you need. Too tight a ring can lead to problems that you do not need at this point. Practice, practice and more practice should be done before going all out with this procedure.

Caution is again the watchword when using any VED whether it is for Peyronies Disease or for ED.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on October 16, 2008, 10:24:53 PM
I use Cialis daily at a low dose (approx 7.5 mg nightly) and I use the VED. So I guess I got it coming and going...

A couple of points. I am not sure that the blood in the penis from using the VED is much "different" than that during an erection. Veins have valves that prevent backwards flow, so I do not see how the blood would be considered "venous" when using the VED. Instead, it is clearly arterial.. think of it as coming in from the artery but the venous drainage is "dammed" by the use of the vacuum.

I am not sure if blood is refreshed at all during an erection, but I suspect that it is. If it remained stagnant it would seem to be at risk of coagulation and/or severe hypoxemia. I think that the penis deals with it in two ways (though I am not sure of this!). First, oxygen consumption in the erect penis has to be low under normal erect conditions. Second, the "stored" oxygen in the corporal chambers may continue to release oxygen for a much longer time than in a capillary where the red cells line up and squeeze through one at a time. Since the blood cells are hanging out, and there is a lot of them, then I imagine that O2 delivery can continue to meet the needs of the tissue.

Whomever designed our bodies did a smart job of it - I trust it works right under normal conditions.

As far as I can tell, the erections I get with a VED are little different than those without one, with one exception - they are longer and straighter.

If you can go back to find my original posts on this topic, you will find many very cogent arguments as to why this would not work. I stopped posting those when I tried it the way I was told to, and it helped me.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hawk on October 17, 2008, 12:54:29 AM
Quote from: Tim468 on October 16, 2008, 10:24:53 PM
I am not sure if blood is refreshed at all during an erection, but I suspect that it is. If it remained stagnant it would seem to be at risk of coagulation and/or severe hypoxemia.

Tim,

I think that is the entire reason that priapism can and does destroy the penis.  The blood is not refreshed at least not fast enough to keep up with dangerous processes that take place with prolonged erection.  When I was on Bimix injections it was explained that a momentary loss of erection started the timer over as far as a dangerous 3 to 4 hour erection was concerned.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on October 17, 2008, 02:54:05 PM
Quote from: Hawk on October 17, 2008, 12:54:29 AM
I think that is the entire reason that priapism can and does destroy the penis.  The blood is not refreshed at least not fast enough to keep up with dangerous processes that take place with prolonged erection.  When I was on Bimix injections it was explained that a momentary loss of erection started the timer over as far as a dangerous 3 to 4 hour erection was concerned.

From a completely hypothetical point of view, if in future there was a method of keeping the blood renewed/oxygenated to the point where a permenant erection without damage was possible, how would this impact the healing process of someone with suspected peyronies but no curve as yet? Would they still develop a curve, or would the strength of the erection mean that it would heal in that position? I know it's an odd question, but I'm always interested in off the wall angles.

I guess in a round about way what I am really thinking about (but taking to an unattainable extreme) is how reduced curvature would be in those in a very early stage of peyronies (without existing curvature) if they used methods to remain erect or 'stretched' for extended periods of time (viagra, VED, traction). Most of us of course do not have the privalege of being on that position, but its still something of interest.



Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on October 18, 2008, 12:11:05 AM
Other than difficulty in wearing pants and going to work without being embarrassed, I think a permanent erection sounds great!

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ticker on October 18, 2008, 07:58:38 AM
Goodmorning all,I am in my 23rd weed of the VED protocol.I take 1000mg of ALC 2 times a day.I take 400 mg of Trental (pentox) 3 times a day and 400 mg of Vitamin E 2 times a day.I marked my VED tube after the first couple times of use.It appeares that I have gained in lenghth about 3/4 of an inch(thats how wide the electrical tape is)What seemes to be the issue here is in the facid stage,I seem to be smaller and at times go turtle!I have to say,I don't think Ive gotten worse but I have'nt gotten better either.I do this rutine religiously and very rarely ever miss a day of VED.I am going to New Haven on the 29th to be part of the Xiaflex testing and I will have to stop everything 28 days after my first visit.Any input out there????Thank you,Ticker

Entered "(pentox)" for clarification to readers
Hawk
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/better or worse
Post by: Old Man on October 18, 2008, 09:46:43 AM
Ticker:

Glad to see that you posted your results after 23 weeks of VED therapy exercises. The gain in length you realized is a positive result. Even though you are experiencing a bit of turtle effect, don't let that deter you from continuing with the vacuum therapy. Entering the Xiaflex study might bring better results, so keep us informed as the study progresses.

As has been stated all along on this forum, VED therapy does not produce results for all, but does for the majority, yourself included in that you gained back some lost length. VED therapy is not the "ultimate treatment" but is just one approach to helping.

Thanks for posting your results, and continue to post results of VED therapy and the study you are about to enter.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on October 18, 2008, 11:48:09 AM
Ticker,

You are doing what you can to help yourself. You have gone to extraordinary lengths to get better - and for that you will benefit even if you are not cured. So many here complain but do not take much in the way of action to get better as have you. I'm inspired to keep working for my own health as you are doing.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: mikemck on October 26, 2008, 04:00:18 PM
I am in week 2 of the 26 week plan with the Vitality 3-tube VED.

I am using the small tube A with both rubber inserts in the base of the device.

It feels like it is mostly my skin being stretched. It seems like not enough skin is being drawn into the tube to allow most or all the pull to be on the tunica.

The skin on my penis is quite loose and I should be able to stretch my penis without pulling on the skin.

Next time I am going to try using only the larger of the two rubber rings in the base.

I am concerned that my use of the device so far might not have been as effective as it might have been because the pull on the skin limited the vacuum I pumped.

Does anyone have any comments or suggestions?

Thanks.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Lubication
Post by: Old Man on October 26, 2008, 05:30:28 PM
Mikemck:

From your description of the skin pulling effect while using both inserts with the small A cylinder sounds like you are not lubricating your penis enough. You must lubricat the shaft of your penis quite well before inserting it into the cylinder. Also, you must lubricate the inside of the cylinder as far as you can up into the "barrel" of the cylinder. Some have suggested that using a baby bottle cleaning brush would help lubricate it further out than you can reach with a finger.

Staying with the protocol as close as possible produces the better results. The purpose of the small cylinder is to prevent the penile shaft from bending while being stretched in the cylinder. Keeping it a straighter position helps remold or remodel the shaft with the plaque/nodules, etc.

If using both inserts with the small cylinder is just too tight, you could remove the smaller one. However, this could cause a pinching effect of the skin while pumping up to a medium to large amount of pressure. Again, check to see that you are using enough lubricant to keep the skin sliding well up and down in the cylinder while going through the cycles of pumping up and releasing.

There are a lot of posts on the forum regarding using the VED, so you might want to do a search using the term VED or VED usage in the search block.

Feel free to ask any and all questions regarding VED usage and I am sure that some of us can give you any help needed.

Sorry that you are having this problem, but practice slowly and methodically with the VED and you should see good results.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on October 30, 2008, 10:00:58 PM
I use variable sized individual cylinders, and a hand pump, so I am not sure if this will work on the nesting-doll type of VED  ;)

When I pump, I pump and release repeatedly to gradually fill with blood. Additionally (hard to describe this with words, so bear with me), I hold the pump about a half inch away from the penis base as I pump up to draw the penis and skin into the cylinder. Only when it is full and fairly tight in the cylinder (about 80% done with the last pump) do I let the cylinder settle down to the base against my abdominal wall.

What this does is prevent the flared base of the cylinder from sealing prematurely against the abdominal wall and prevent the last bit of skin from sliding in (at least painlessly - it will go in but only with a lot of pinching).

Here is an analogy... imagine putting on a sock, then sliding it down you leg until there was a fold of material at the base. Now imagine putting on the shoe and tying it tight such that the bottom fold of material was caught in the top part of the shoe. Now when you go to pull your sock up, it is stuck - it will pop out with a lot of pressure, but if it was skin it will hurt.

Thus, for me, when I do this I am wet with soap and in the tub (I more frequently stand up now after hearing it is easier to do standing than lying - true for me too). I pumpt and release until nearly ready, then pump it up and in gradually, holding it away from me with some tension, allowing all my skin to slide in. Only when it is all in and stretching a bit do I let it settle in for the last 1/4 inch and set up firmly at the abdominal wall. I am not sure I have been able to paint a good picture of this, but I hope so.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices and congenital curves
Post by: wayne999 on November 01, 2008, 09:19:03 PM
In the case of congenital curvature does anyone think VED's may help? The uro's i've seen suggest it won't do anything and that the only cure is surgery.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on November 01, 2008, 11:08:24 PM
wayne999:

Based on my long experience with Peyronies Disease, many therapies, treatments with meds and other things, I see no reason why VED therapy would help with congenital curvature in any way.

The curve is one that a person is born with and there has been no methods other than surgery to correct the problem. In most cases, this curvature, unless it prevents penetration for sex, does not need to be corrected. Correcting it might make one feel better about himself, but surgery should be the last resort in any case.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on November 02, 2008, 02:04:26 AM

I'm not sure whether the VED is able to stretch normal tissue in most people. It's not something I've ever needed to think about. I have seen a couple of claims of non-peyronies curve correction on anotehr site though via VED use. Personally I feel that it may be possible in some cases to correct or lessen congenital curves via traction, based on the principal that tissue can be stretched over time. If one area of the penis is shorter than the other, the tension would be on that area hence there is a chance that over time an improvement could be seen. It could take years though, and involve more and more tension (very risk). Who knows, it may not work at all. Plus I doubt it's even been attempted all that many times, and it could be dangerous. For a person not suffering from peyronies, I would think it a big risk to go down this path because it could result in peyronies in the shorter side, hence a dramatic worstening of the situation. Ultimately as Old Man says the extent of the curve will result in whether or not action should be taken via surgery or any other course of action.

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on November 02, 2008, 11:52:29 AM
In terms of why the VED helps in Peyronie's, and if it might help in congenital curvature, I come to precisely the opposite conclusion as Old Man - it might help.

It is a hypothesis that has not been tested. But it makes sense that a stretch applied to the short side would differentially lengthen it compared to the (already) longer side.

Since this is what we think the VED does to Peyronie's Disease affected tunica, I see no reason it would not help others as well - if done the way we do it with narrower cylinders.

In the penis enlargement (PE) community, it seems that the VED does not work as well as the stretching methods do - and this comes back to the issue raised by Robert the entrepreneur that a longer application of gentle stretch is likely to lead to better gains than a shorter period of time. Interestingly, those folks do not generally believe they can affect curvature by PE methods. What they do not do, though, is use the narrower cylinders that apply a differential stretch to one side.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on November 02, 2008, 12:16:50 PM
Thinking back, I do remember reading a post on the most popular penis enlargement site, where the poster claimed to have corrected a curve solely via VED use. Of course it's hard to know for sure whether there is truth to the claim but it's something to think about.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on November 02, 2008, 05:34:59 PM
IMHO
VED usage will not make the penis larger than what you were born to have.
In my experience with shortening from Peyronies Disease it will help. I went about 12 years before I found this forum and Old Man. I took his advice and with my single cylinder Rx VED was able to gain back almost 1/2 inch in about 1 year. Doctor said that was all I could get because of the peyronies scar on top of my penis.
4 months ago when I was at Vanderbilt for the 1st time I asked the doctor about VED usage. He said most defiantly keep it up until about 2 days before the implant. He said that VED use helped but be careful not to hurt yourself.
IMHO VED usage will not help for penile enlargement. It will help with shrinkage and the sooner you start the better result.
I am now 10 days post op for a penile implant. The difference flaccid is better than expected. The doctor after surgery said that when you are healed you will be "Very Happy with the outcome."
The longer you wait with penile shrinkage the less chances of regaining size. I do not think my implant result would have been as good without the year of proper VED exercise.
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: sdigroup on November 03, 2008, 09:58:18 AM
Hi all,
I have been reading here for a long time, but this is (I believe) my first post. I wasn't sure if clicking the 'reply' button was the proper way to post. If not, please excuse me. Also, sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance for your help. Hope my post is not too candid.
Having used a VED (and many other methods) for a long time, I wanted to make a few comments. First, I must agree with some of the contributors when they say that I honestly don't think that using a VED will increase length beyond that of your 'normal/original' length. Mechanically, it seems as though it would, but the corpus cavernosum [CC] (while spongy), is like one of those black rubber tie-down straps you buy to hold down a tarp. You can hook one of those to two points, pulling it extremely taught for a long, long time (in fact, until it deteriorates and breaks), yet when you remove it, it returns to very near its original length. Granted, this is a synthetic material and I don't say this to discourage, but experience over a long period of time has shown (me and others) this to be true. One other important note: Because the CC (and the outer skin and other components of the penis) IS human tissue, ANY stretching equals damage and damage equals scarring. Scarring, in the case of an elastic member like the penis can translate to shrinkage. This is why men who use a VED will sometimes see 'turtling' after extended and/or long term usage. This is the elasticity pulling back after stretching and then, later in the day or the next, some turtling. It would seem that, as one person mentioned, stretching over a long period of time CONTINUOUSLY, the way some of the extender devices work, WOULD in fact, stretch and add some length. By stretching and HOLDING, the penis would heal in the 'stretched (scarred?) position. And this may be why some guys DO see a slight increase. The problem is that, just like the rubber tie-down, the penis is EXTEMELY resilient. Don't forget that when scarring occurs, it doesn't just happen and stop. It is sort of like a bruise, in that it takes time and spreads outward from the point of injury for some distance.
So then, what IS the best answer? Of course, it's different for everyone. As for lengthening and fattening, some of the surgeries, such as suspensory ligament release and fat deposit surgery seem to offer some help, but most of these report being unsatisfied with the results. To be honest, it might be about doing what you can and must in the bedroom and living with what you have been given, in between (as for as size goes).
Having weighed all the options, used nearly everyone of them over time, read, talked and researched for years about them, inasmuch as VED's go, using the VED for sex (with a constrictor ring) works best for me and I would suspect would for many. The drawbacks in this process are: of course it inhibits impulsive sex to some degree. Especially for single guys like myself, that seems to be an issue. But moreso for us than them. With a few exceptions, most of the women I've been with either could care less, or find it interesting (!). And these are (I hate to say it) short-term and one-night-stand's! So, if THEY can handle it, I daresay, someone who CARES could certainly. I don't mean to oversimplify the psych issues here. Also, over time, using a VED with a ring, especially if you are not careful to remove it within a reasonable amount of time, seems to cause sensitivity problems with the Glans/Corona. I take niacin to try and counter this and don't ride bikes with pointy seats- ever. One nice thing that the VED gives that cannot be obtained by some of the most 'obscene' erections I've had with injections (which can be pretty amazing) is the increase in head size. This is also something partners appreciate.
Viagra is great, but if you already have bloodflow problems, it gives you a 'sloppy', flimsy erection. Injections, as I mentioned before, can be fantastic, but have a ton of undesirable side effects: SEVERE scarring which leads to shortening (serious shortening) and plaque buildup which causes poor quality erections (why do you suppose so many guys who have implants were injection patients previously?). Additionally, some resistance to the drugs DOES happen, causing the mixture to be less effective over time, the stuff is QUITE expensive (not to mention the repeated doctor visits for re-evaluation periodically), poking a needle into you penis is not fun, and hey... you want to talk about not being able to be impulsive with sex (!?). To top it all off, priapism is a real danger with it. Nonetheless, I still use it occasionally, depending.
As for implants, it seems to be the best out for many, but like injections, there are so many complications and possible complications. Infection, limited usage time (about 10 years), costly and many insurance plans, like BCBS won't cover it no matter. Then, you hear horror stories of guys who have real problems with the things breaking, leaking and being uncomfortable. If the thing fails, can you still use a VED to achieve an erection while it's still implanted? Haven't asked, but it would be ashamed if you couldn't even go back to the VED. Well, good luck all. Thanks for this forum where we can discuss this issue. I know it's difficult sometimes for some women to understand just how important this is to us and thank heaven for those that do.
--Scotty
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on November 03, 2008, 05:18:14 PM
sdigroup:

Great post about a lot of things that can and will happen with ED, Peyronies Disease and other men's health issues.

You asked if the VED could still be used after an implant fails. I can only be answer it this way: yes, a VED can be used after implants fail, but extreme caution must be exercised not to overpump the pressure that could cause the implant to separate in the corporal chambers. Some implant surgeons are beginning to prescribe a VED to implement the implant if it (implant) does not provide enough of an erection to perform sex. Again, extreme caution should be exercised to prevent complications stated above.

I know of one or two guy in my area of the country that had implants done and their surgeons prescribed a VED to be used only for erections to perform sex. They exercised their penises several times a week to keep the implant devices in good working order, but did not use the VED during those exercises. One of the biggest problems that causes an implant to fail is the lack of cycling the "system" through erections on a timely basis to keep the parts in good working order. Some guys have them last for up to 20 years before failing, etc.

IMHO though, an implant is considered the last resort unless there are compelling reasons for one to be done. One suggestion for you in posting - please break up your posts into paragraphs separated by a space or two between them for easier reading for us old guys with failing eyesight, thanks.

Hope this helps in some way.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: sdigroup on November 03, 2008, 08:43:17 PM
Thanks for your kind response. I will use that format in the future. I have some pretty serious scar tissue, but the VED seems to work for me at this time. My doctor had me consider an implant, although I have heard some pretty disappointing results even when they turn out good. What do you know about the 'fixed' or malleable implant? I hear they work well.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on November 03, 2008, 10:53:17 PM
sdigroup:

OK, to answer your question about the type of implant that one would consider. There are at least three different models of implants with which I am familiar.

One is the fixed manual model which does not deflate, it just stays the same size all the time and becomes difficult to conceal in clothes. There is the two rods that inserted in the corporal chambers, etc.

The second one is what I call a semi pump up manual model which has a pump of sorts in the head end of the rods that you manipulate to close and then squeeze that portion to inflate the rods. To deflate, you manipulate the valves in the head portion and squeeze them down in size.

The third one is a three piece pump model that has a pump in the scrotum, the rods in the penis and a reservoir inserted somewhere in the abdomen. A valve on the pump is closed manually, then the pump is squeezed to inflate the rods to the desired amount of erection. To deflate, the valve is opened and then the rods squeezed to push the fluid back into the reservoir.

If I were considering having an implant done, I would elect for the three piece model which makes for the best overall setup to conceal and not be too obvious in ones clothing. It also provides a better overall operation and therefore IMHO a more successful situation.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on November 04, 2008, 12:53:19 PM
sdigroup
I used the VED for over 2 years. The first year the instructions were not very clear and I, thinking more was better, caused a sore that took weeks to heal.
After failed implant 10/07 found this site and Old Man put me on the right exercise program.

Through that exercise program the corporal fibrosis got better and I gained back almost 1/2 inch lost to peyronies. Using the VED for sex was a love/hate thing. Loved the erection hated the tight constriction ring.

After the failed implant I started a lot of research. For information on implants google AMS 700. There you will find the different types available. I went to at least 4 other urologist here and I knew more than most of them. Finally I found a local doctor that refereed me the Dr. Milam at Vanderbilt.

I was very impressed with him and his staff. October 23rd he implanted a AMS 700 LGX for me. When I woke up from this surgery I knew everything went well, kept telling the nurse I had to pee she reassured me everything went well and the Foley was normal. Dr. Milan came in and told me that I would be more than happy with the result. (I am so far.)

The pain is mostly gone now and I can feel the implant with my fingers, but I leave it alone and only do as directed by pulling the pump into place.

If you are considering an Implant make sure the doctor you use does at least 100 of these a year, and uses the AMS 700 LGX.

Jackp

Title: Re: jackp, VED and surgery
Post by: Ralf3 on November 04, 2008, 02:39:38 PM
Jackp,

so you were using VED and it helped you with the corporal fibrosis, you achieved some success with it - gaining almost half an inch back - but still not good to have natural erections or to perform sex?
So if I understand well, the VED helped you only in restoring the lenght (and girth maybe) but the function was unchanged? And hence the implant surgery?

So my general question (I am sorry if it's too trivial): Except the tissue remodelling, does the VED also help restoring penis functions (better erections, better ability to maintain erections)?

Ralf3
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/better erections
Post by: Old Man on November 04, 2008, 06:02:26 PM
Ralf3:

I will inject my 2 cents here about erections with VED exercises. Yes, you will achieve much better erections with the VED exercises. If you have no problem with natural erections, the VED will add to those by engorging more and more blood flow with the vacuum pressure. In turn, the erectile tissue will tend to stay in the stretched condition much longer by using the VED.

Traction does not cause more blood flow and therefore does little to add to better erections. Some here will differ with me on that but my experience with both exercises says that the VED wil give one more gain in dimensions overall in length as well as girth.

So, bottom line, if you can achieve natural erections but are not very firm or erect enough for real good sex, then the VED with the restrictor ring(s) can and will assist one in having better erections overall.

Jackp will probably be able to implement my position with added comments from his experience with the VED.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Toby on November 04, 2008, 07:13:05 PM
Hi all, havent posted in a while. I just wanted to report my progress. After 17 weeks using ved I am disappointed. I have no improvement, and I think I am a bit worse actually, as far as curvature is concerned. I do however have much better erections and seem to have more feeling in my penis. I am distressed by the amount of scar tissue in my penis. It seems to almost entirely cover the top and sides of my penis. When I use A and B cylinders I am straight. But when I use C the largest, I notice a curve. When I started using the ved I was straight in all cylinders. I can only assume that the plaque on top of my penis has gotten harder. Old Man, you have been a great inspiration to me, and I have been faithfully using ved everyday. I just hope that over time I will eventually achieve some softening of the scar tissue. I notice that thickness of my penis is restored after use of ved. At least temporarily. Is there any hope for any of us? Any thing in the pipeline that sounds remotely positive? I continue to pray for all men afflicted with this horrible disease. I hope all you guys hang in there and keep trying. I know I will. I will keep making occasional postings to report progress.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on November 04, 2008, 07:21:13 PM
ralf3
If peyronies had been my only problem.
I have Low Testesterone, Peyronies, Venous Leakage and Corporal Fibrosis. Also I believe my problems started with Sleep Apnea and the lack of night time erections contributed to the problems.
The year on the VED before the implant was just what I needed. My penis felt better and has restored about 1/2 inch lost to peyronies. I could feel the fibrosis getting better (took 3-6 months of daily use.)
I had to use the VED with constriction ring for sex. Too much damage for the VED alone.

So my general question (I am sorry if it's too trivial): Except the tissue remodelling, does the VED also help restoring penis functions (better erections, better ability to maintain erections)?


To answer your question. NO the the damage was to much for the VED to overcome. If I had started in 1995 may have been a different story.

Jackp
Title: Re:Old man: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: young25 on November 04, 2008, 07:23:13 PM
old man,

continuing on Ralf's question, say fibrosis/penile shrinkage has caused venous leak and VED helps restore the shrinkage, will it close the leak also as the tissue will be able to stretch completly now... I knw its very difficult to answer but any personal experiences or hearsay..
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/lack of progress
Post by: Old Man on November 04, 2008, 09:39:03 PM
Toby:

Sorry to hear that you have not seen any good results of the VED therapy. From what you are saying, your plaque and other symptoms came after you started using the VED. Sometimes this happens and that is why I always try to state the VED therapy does not work successfully for all. I know that you don't want to hear that, but I must be truthful about it. However, don't give up the ship just yet. I may take as much as a year or more on the VED to see good results. It has in some cases that I have seen.

Anyway, try and keep a positive attitude about it all and keep up the schedule to the letter.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/helping venous leakage
Post by: Old Man on November 04, 2008, 09:45:36 PM
young25:

Venous leakage is a very difficult thing to overcome. Once the "valves" in the blood vessels become damaged to the degree that they don't function properly, it is hard for them to recover. Yes, in some cases venous leakage has been reduced enough to produce erections again, but they are usually only minimal and do not work well for sex.

In my case, venous leakage started about age 55. I started using a restrictor ring at that time to help hold up erections. Erections firm enough for sex were possible then, but they would leak down in minutes. So, using a restrictor ring (some call them cock rings) was used prior to getting erect and this would maintain an erection long enough for sex. Remember though, if these rings are used, they must be removed after about 30 minutes to preclude damage to the blood and tissue, etc.

So, if Peyronies Disease symptoms have caused you to develop venous leakage, you must realize that it may never reverse itself. However, the VED with using a restrictor ring will definitely replace a natural erection with very little difficulty.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on November 04, 2008, 09:56:11 PM
young25
In my case the VED helped penis shrinkage but not venous leakage. In my case venous leakage was real bad and had to use a very tight constriction ring (Osborn D pink) for sex.

Peyronies scar (from 1995) on the top of my penis prevented gaining anymore length.

I know of no doctor that has the skills to correct venous leakage except by implant.

Jackp




Title: XP
Post by: Old Man on November 05, 2008, 09:57:20 AM
Note to all about restrictor ring use:

This is a tip for those using the old Osbon Esteem rings. There are four different tension rings that come/came with the package. The brochure that is with package lists various tensions that can be used. One has to experiment with these to find the right tension. If one has to use the small D pink ring, you might want to try using two of the larger A and B rings at the same time to prevent the "tightness" of the D pink ring.

Stretching the A and B rings over time will cause them to loosen up and therefore give a better fit for tension that the small D pink ring.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: phatkatwun on November 09, 2008, 10:16:17 PM
I have had Peyronie's disease for about 8 years. It first started when my penis appeared to be broken about 1/3 way out and had the hinge effect. My urologist said that nothing could be done about it except take Vitamin E and surgery. I didn't want the surgery. The disease has since progressed and my penis now has an upward curve represented by ¼ of a circle having a radius of about 3 inches which gives me about a 90 degree bend. I first found and read the old BTC forum until it was taken over by a bunch of perverted idiots. This new forum was then started and has continued in an excellent manner. Over the past 8 years I have read from both forums about many suggested treatments. I have tried none of these except the vitamin E. I have NOT heard of any positive results until the VED came along and positive results were posted by Old Man and others.

So last week I finally ordered and received the 3 cylinder FITZZ unit. It cost me $206 with the TEAM coupon discount. After I looked over what I had received and read all of their enclosed literature I figured I needed to read all of the VED posts and child board on the forum. This I have done.

While reading all of these posts it occurred to me that the forum information is divided into different parts (subjects) and in many ways resembles a book.  A Google search shows 2 or 3 books available about Peyronie's Disease.

I suggest to Hawk and all of you other top contributors that you should consider turning the forum's posted data and words into a paperback book. All of the required chapters are already there. Almost all of the words are already there. The VED chapter could be easily finished by combining all of the duplicated extra posts that were written to answer questions for new members and then cleaning up the English. The other chapters could be done the same way. A book could be easily written called "Peyronie's the Terrible Disease". The forum now has 2037 members and I suspect that 2000 of them would like to have the book, I know I would. At a cost of about $15 we are talking about around $30,000 total.

Any thoughts?

phatkatwun
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on November 16, 2008, 01:00:31 AM
can anyone please post some VED success stories....
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on November 16, 2008, 03:00:49 AM
Iceman
I had peyronies start in 1995. Curve straightened in about 18 months. Side effect was I went from about 5.5 inches down to just above 4 inches.
After a filed implant attempt by a local urologist 10/07 I found this site.
Old Man gave me a exercise routine for my single cylinder Rx VED.

I followed the exercise routine daily for just over a year before implant surgery and had gained back almost 1/2 of lost length. Doctor said that was all I could gain because of the peyronies scar on top of my penis (just behind the head).

Was the VED a seccuss for me? YES!!!
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on November 16, 2008, 08:50:07 PM
jackp - thats 3 times longer than the 26 week protocol
also did you say you lost 1.5 inches and the VED helped you get that length back??
Title: Iceman: success here
Post by: Angus on November 16, 2008, 09:59:01 PM

       Without a total re-post, here is a link to my VED experience post:

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,25.msg13806.html#msg13806
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on November 16, 2008, 10:09:40 PM
thx angus
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on November 16, 2008, 10:32:31 PM
Iceman
Yes!!!

I started the exercise Old Man suggested 10/2007 that was about 12 years after I got peyronies.

Yes I lost almost 1.5 inches to peyronies and with the VED exercise I gained back about 1/2 of that. Took 3-4 months to notice start regaining length.

To complicate the peyronies I also had Venous Leakage and Corporal Fibrosis. The corporal fibrosis was from trying injections for ED. The pills V,C,&L did not help me and the shots of trimix were of no help either, the venous leakage got too bad.

I stayed on the protocol through 10/21/08. My doctor said I had gained back all I could because of the peyronies scar on top of my penis, but keep up the VED until 2 days before surgery to help with the outcome. (It did!!!)

I was off the exercise for 2-3 weeks the end of July first of August. 10 days in the hospital. When I got back to the VED I thought I had lost all I had gained. Started the exercise back daily and within a week had regained back all I lost while in the hospital and recovery.

IMHO when you start the VED exercise keep it going every day. It will make for a healthier penis.

Jackp

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on November 16, 2008, 10:45:22 PM
JackP:

Good post. Just wish that we could get this message across to those who are not sure about starting VED exercises.

You are right about the daily routine. VED exercises replaces the nocturnal erections in us older guys and those with Peyronies Disease. Even after becoming "normal" again with my lost dimensions to Peyronies Disease, I still use the VED at least 3 to 4 times a week just for maintenance. It is my sole source of erections too.

Thanks, Old Man
Title: Success, VED's, time-line analogy
Post by: Angus on November 18, 2008, 11:47:39 PM

    As far as time-lines and VED success is concerned with the 26 week protocol, I consider the 26 weeks of thought-out repetitions of varying sized cylinders a "chapter" within a larger work of treatment. Like books, rarely does one chapter complete a work. In this analogy, consider the 26 weeks a "chapter" within a book (the treatment) and that more than one chapter is going to have to be completed. At the end of the "chapter" or 26 weeks, assume you are going to start over at week 1 and follow the succession of weeks like you just started therapy. Many men report little if any change at six months (a little short of 26 weeks) but many men report change after using the VED for a longer period of time. Most of the success stories I've read involve a year to year and a half of dedicated VED use.
   Another analogy could be comparing the 26 week protocol to exercizing or working out. Think of the 26 weeks as a "set". In my case it took about 3 "sets" of 26 weeks to get results.
   The VED protocol is physical therapy. There is no magic or snake oil involved, just exercizing, working at it and comittment. Individuals subject other injured parts of the body to physical therapy (knees, shoulders, etc.). It escapes me why so many individuals worry about trying the VED for Peyronies.
Title: VED and Traction??
Post by: LAGUY on November 19, 2008, 12:43:52 AM
Hello guys:
I'm TOTALLY new here.  My peyronies is worsening so I want to take action.  Thanks so very much for the terrific information here; needless to say, it has helped calm my nerves (!!!).  I've read most of the Topic summaries for new users.  I've also gone through most of the Traction and VED posts (lots to read under VED so I've got a ways to go on that line).  Based on Old Man's suggestions, I will likely order the FITZZ Vitality Plus Three Cylinder model.  But I'm also really intrigued with the idea of traction and would very much like to try that as well.  My question is this:  Is there a disadvantage to doing both at the same time?  As in, I think I'd like to start with VED and then perhaps a week later begin to gently introduce stretching.  If I go slowly, being sensitive to what my penis seems to need and can easily stand, is it safe to do both traction and VED? 

Thanks so much.  I really appreciate it.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackisback on November 19, 2008, 01:07:06 AM
The VED continues to baffle me. When I use it, it seems to help, and there seems to be a magic amount of VED use and sexual pleasure that is good for me, and if I mess up on either end and do too much or too little, it all goes to hell. The thing is, when I'm using the VED, I always find it necessary to test out my unit immediately or within a few hours of pumping just to examine the quality of my erection. If it's better, i'm doing something right, if it's worse, i'm doing something wrong obviously. Last time I was doing well, I bought a brand new trimmer to trim myself up (for what other purpose than to make the VED more effective?) I accidentally nicked myself, so I figured better safe than sorry, and I laid off the VED for about 4 days. I didn't want to risk that the suction could be pulling blood into a recently cut area. At this same exact time, I probably masturbated 2xday about 3 days in a row (what can i say? it's exciting when you suddenly have the ability to get a decent erection again). That was nothing when I was a teenager, but ever since Peyronie's that has been a dangerous ground to walk on. I started to get a cold feeling in the head of my penis, so i tried to back off both pumping and masturbation. A few weeks later I've starting masturbating once daily again, and now it's the opposite. Instead of cold, my penis feels hot, almost like it's burning after masturbation. My problem is that I can never figure out when it's important to abstain, and when it's important to do something. My plan right now is to keep masturbating once daily until I don't get that burning sensation anymore, and then to continue with VED (and hopefully traction). Still, I believe that other than Xiaflex, VED is the greatest hope for a reasonable recovery.
Title: Re: LAGuy
Post by: Hawk on November 19, 2008, 08:17:11 PM
I see no problem with your plans to use both traction and the VED as long as you do not become impatient and get into the more is better mode. Your conservative approach sounds reasonable.

You do not mention if you can get natural erections.  If not I would use the VED right before and right after traction so you get oxygenation to tissue near the time of traction.  It is mostly my logical deduction and has no supporting studies.

If you can get natural erections the timing may be less important but long periods of traction can reduce blood flow in the area where the strap or tube cinch in the penis.  I think you need some blood flow to these areas before and after traction.
Title: Re: LAGuy
Post by: LAGUY on November 20, 2008, 12:14:11 AM
Thanks Hawk.  I appreciate the response and the information.  Very helpful.  I do get natural erections but they are not as hard as pre-peyronie's.  I'm hoping that stretching and pumping will help with that.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on November 20, 2008, 12:48:40 AM
laguy
My peyronies started 13 years ago. I did not get on the proper VED exercise until 10/07. I had a Rx single cylinder model and Old Man sent me an exercise routine.

I had lost about 1.5 inches to peyronies. VED exercise help me gain back almost 1/2 in just over a year. Until my implant 4 weeks ago my doctor said to keep up the exercise until 2 days before saurgery for a better outcome. I did and am more than happy with the outcome so far.

IMHO VED exercise every day following the recommendation of Old Man will help you stay healthier and will help keep peyronies from getting worse.

Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bluth on November 20, 2008, 10:22:49 AM
So should I use a VED if I am in the active phase and still getting new plaques? It seems the worst thing I could do at this stage is make things worse, which is why I am a bit leery of VED's even though they seem to have positive effects.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on November 20, 2008, 10:28:36 AM
bluth
IMHO you need to start the VED as soon as possible. Penile shrinkage happens to a lot if not most of us with peyronies. The VED will keep the corporas healthy and make for better outcome.
I wish I knew about it 13 years ago.
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on November 20, 2008, 11:40:26 AM
bluth,

No doubt that the VED route is appropriate. I only wish that I had one and the 26 week protocol before I lost almost 50% of my length and girth. It is coming back ever so slowly, but the two plus years of wait and see, potaba and vitamin C were a waste of precious time.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bluth on November 20, 2008, 12:52:53 PM
Great. What are some of the recommended products? There is so much information out there. Are there any pumps that are generally accepted by all to be quality products that don't make things worse?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on November 20, 2008, 02:18:25 PM
bluth
See post #1726. This is the one I have. There is a 10% discount available, one of the posts has the code word.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on November 20, 2008, 05:39:03 PM
bluth:

The web site of the VED listed in Post 1726 is:  www.fitzz.com

Open the home page of the site and look for the link to the men's health products section. Look for the Vitality OTC three cylinder manual model. This is a very good durable medical quality VED. Also, some guys have made their own VEDs and if you mechanically inclined you could do the same. Angus has posted how he made his on the main forum if you should want to look that up.

When you to to the Fitzz site look for the promo code seaside2 is talking about or ask to help you with that. The price has gone up from $229.99 (which was the summer special price) to $249.99, but free shipping and handling is still in effect as far as I know.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: didi20031 on November 20, 2008, 06:20:02 PM
They want $115.83 for shipment to Europe... That's crazy!!! Is there a possibility to order the VED directly in Europe too?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: phatkatwun on November 20, 2008, 09:21:39 PM
bluth:

Be sure to type in TEAM in the coupon block to get $25 off. Makes the total price about $225 bottom line.

phatkatwun
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bluth on November 21, 2008, 02:36:52 AM
Quote from: didi20031 on November 20, 2008, 06:20:02 PM
They want $115.83 for shipment to Europe... That's crazy!!! Is there a possibility to order the VED directly in Europe too?
Wow. Ridiculous. I am in Europe as well and interested in other options.

Thanks for those who helped out with this tip however.
Title: Purchasing a VED!!! last minute recomendations (incudes URL)
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on November 21, 2008, 04:31:15 AM
 :) hey Old Man and everyone,

you suggested Fitzz for buying a VED.
i found this page: http://www.fitzz.com/Sexual-Health-for-Men_c_401.html (http://www.fitzz.com/Sexual-Health-for-Men_c_401.html)

and just wanted to make sure i get the right one.
i'm assuming the best one would be the one presently at the top,
first listed:

"Vitality Plus Three Cylinder Vacuum Therapy System - Recommended for Peyronie''s Therapy
SKU: AM1000P
$249.99 "

(it's placement on the page may have changed since i looked)

just curious... i'd like to purchase it in the next month, heck, maybe sooner!

what do you think? any suggestions or ones you think are better?

thanks!

in_oregon






Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Vitality OTC three cylinder
Post by: Old Man on November 21, 2008, 10:17:12 AM
getting_there:

Yes, that is the VED that we have had great success in using for Peyronies Disease. It can also be used for ED. In fact, it is basically the same unit as the Soma Correct that was taken off the market due to its not being officially approved by FDA for Peyronies Disease therapy. The package has all the necessary items for ED and Peyronies Disease usage. (Tip: Once you have used up the lubricant that comes with the package, go to any local store and buy the OTC cheaper lubricant. WalMart has theirs for about $2.00 and it works equally as well or better than the OEM.)

Be sure to read the preceding posts about asking or adding the link for a promo discount. Several have received the discount which will reduce the price. It was listed during the summer months at a lower special price.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Fred22 on November 22, 2008, 04:12:36 PM
Old Man,

Actually the Soma Correct is still available from a company called "Edgepark" (edgepark.com), but I believe, by prescription only. (As we have discussed by PM).  I was originally informed by my so called "health insurance provider", (Cigna..."In the business of caring"...NOT!!!) that mine would be covered at 100% as "durable medical equipment', no copay or deductible.  After my uro approved the purchase and I had placed the order, Edgepark called me back and said that there was a $200 deductible (above my regular $100 deductible for medical services) and the unit was not considered durable medical equipment, but was classified as an "external prosthetic device". Also, Edgepark's price for the unit is $389. So after all the red tape , phone calls, being on hold for 30 minutes at a time, etc., it turns out that Cigna could save me about $25 if I bought the Soma from Edgepark instead of the Fitzz unit, which I understand is basically the same.  Just LOVE those insurance companies!!!

Fred
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection DevicesInsurance coverage
Post by: Old Man on November 22, 2008, 08:18:35 PM
Fred22:

Sorry to hear about your problems with the insurance company. That will be more and more the case in the future. The benefits will erode downward until we won't have much left.

You are right, the Soma Correct can be bought, but it is available only by RX and only for ED, not Peyronies Disease. The cost is probably way above the Vitality OTC model which does not require an RX.

Thanks for the information about the source.

Old Man

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: flexor on November 23, 2008, 04:34:15 PM
For  a VED in Europe, try

www.imedicare.eu
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LoveMyHusband on December 02, 2008, 05:07:00 PM
This is my 1st post.  I am the wife of a 45 yr old wonderful husband who has Peyronies, about 4 years now, do not know what caused it.     He did not seek help when he had the pain, I remember reading nothing could be done, so we did nothing.  Zero pain after a few months.   It has been "stable" for over 3-4  yrs now.  Urologist says he has a 75 degree bend when erect (from pics I took)-we think it has remained the same for all of these years.  His fibrious tissue is on the side so the bend is sideways, not up/down.  We are able to have sex fine, about every other day, if more than this, he may have trouble staying firm enough, but sometimes we manage a few extra days making it more than every other day.    Love the idea this Vacuum Device MAY help things, but also VERY WORRIED it could /might make things worse?  As for now, everything really is OK/satisfacotry.       Urologist said not to bother, but gave us samples of Viagra/Cialis, if he felt he needed them.    So what is the low down here, I just can not make up my mind if he /we should get one of these (the Fitzz Vitality Plus 3 cylinder model) .    Would it be JUST as beneficial if I make sure my man gets an erection every day on his own, than buy one of these?  Is this more about the Blood flow (daily) or the straightening of the curvature?    I seen somewhere someone said if you were born this way, that trying to strainghten it would be of no benefit if you can still have sex just fine.   Would that answer be different if the curvature was "acquired" ?    ???
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LWillisjr on December 02, 2008, 08:31:29 PM
LoveMy Husband,
First off, I think it is great you are taking the initiative in trying to so some research for your husband. In the end he is going to have to be willing for the therapy however.

Whether the bend is congenital (born with it) or acquired (Peyronies or other disease), it is the amount of pain, curvature, and whether sex is comfortable or not that may determine the type and intensity of therapy.  Yes a congenital curve can be more difficult to treat than the the acquired.

In your case, as long as sex is comfortable and there is no pain for him, then you may only want to try some straight forward therapy. For example, surgery would be out of the question in his case, as it is not necessary nor worth the risks.

However, drugs like Pentox along with some stretching or VED therapy would make sense. These are relatively easy things to try with virtually no side effects. And if he is able to become a little straighter as a result, then only the 2 of you can answer that question.

Les
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on December 02, 2008, 09:32:03 PM
Dear LoveMyHusband

Have him surf on by here and the two of you could spend a bit of time reading the "Child Boards". These contain summaries of our discussions with salient points made in a brief format (in other words, it won't take ten years to catch up with what people have said here!)

I think that the VED would be helpful - quite possible. Doubt that it would hurt unless done improperly (too much vacuum without regard for how it feels).

The idea (well discussed in the Child Boards discussion of the VED) is that although it enhances blood flow, the main idea is to remodel the area of plaque by applying more tension to it than to the other side, thus leading to straightening. A healthy erection applies force throughout the tunica evenly - good for penile health but unlikely to lead to remodelling of the abnormal part.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on December 03, 2008, 12:23:51 AM
an update ....

Ive had no pain or very very little pain for the past 3 weeks which is great as I was in severe pain - i could hardly sit down - my nodules have softened and i really think that my curve is not as bad as it use to be  - it was always perhaps 20-30% and now I would say its 20% at most - and the dents seem to be less as well - so fingers crossed and lets hope it continues - maybe its the 9 months solidi pentox intake or the VED daily or the ALC.....???

No pain is absolutely FANTASTIC....!!!!!!!!!!!! I can almost forget about this...well at least some of the time:)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on December 03, 2008, 08:49:49 AM
Great news Iceman!

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: gerMike on December 03, 2008, 09:26:07 AM
Iceman:

When did you start vitamin D3? Do you take vitamin K2?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: didi20031 on December 03, 2008, 09:31:18 AM
iceman
that sounds great!!! I am really happy for you and I hope improvement will go on!!!  :) :) :)
I am in a quite similar situation: most of the pain has gone during the last two or three weeks. At the moment I am optimistic...

wish you all the best!!! keep us updated in the "progression" section!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on December 03, 2008, 06:02:24 PM
germike - i started vit D3 about a month ago and ive never taken K - i live in a very hot climate so D3 comes naturally ...
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on December 04, 2008, 12:05:04 AM
Quote from: Iceman on December 03, 2008, 06:02:24 PM
germike - i started vit D3 about a month ago and ive never taken K - i live in a very hot climate so D3 comes naturally ...

DIDI 20031 - how long have you had Peyronies Disease for and what steps have you taken to try to get better??
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: didi20031 on December 04, 2008, 03:00:58 AM
iceman
my peyronies started in july, so I am in the fifth month now. I know it is a bit early for being too optimistic but as I have written below pain is nearly gone. I am on pentox (2x400mg per day), ALC (2x1 g per day), arginine (3 capsules before going to bed; don't know the exact dosage since it is a mixture of arginine, alpha-ketoglutarate and other similar substances), vit E 2x400mg per day and vit d3 (2400 IU in the morning). no VED up to now, but I am thinking about it. I have no bend (yet) and I still can get erections on my own (though it is more difficult to maintain them; I hope it is not due to venous leakage caused by peyronies?!?!?!). I am not sure if there would be any benefit for me from VED; oldman says yes... however, I am still reluctant since VED is really time consuming...
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on December 04, 2008, 03:31:19 AM
didi20031 - does Peyronies Disease cause venuoos leakage and exactly what is it??
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: didi20031 on December 04, 2008, 05:05:35 AM
iceman
I am not sure about that. I have found a lot of different information on that. venous leakage, as far as I understand it, is the fact that the veins of the penis are too big and/or that the tunica albuginea is not able to tighten them sufficiently to maintain an erection. that means that blood gets into the penis as it is supposed to but it cannot be trapped due to enhanced blood flow out of the penis.
can peyronies cause it? I don't know if peyronies can cause too large veins but it definitely causes a loss of elasticity of the tunica. what I am not sure about is if this really happens from the very beginning of the disease and if VED can help here?  ???
maybe a MD (Tim?) can comment on that?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on December 04, 2008, 08:38:55 AM
since didi started on his pentox , ALC, vit e routine early could it be possible that he won't experience curvature or is it an inevitability? What do you think guys?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/venous leakage
Post by: Old Man on December 04, 2008, 09:56:11 AM
Iceman:

Venous leakage can be caused by many things. Among them are diabetic disease, Peyronies Disease with the resulting plaques/nodules as well the curvature caused by the Peyronies Disease. I am sure there are other considerations involved with venous leakage and maybe others can help with an explanation.

Have had several friends who became diabetic develop venous leakage. Their primary care physicians suggested they start on the VED therapy for the resulting ED. They usually could get an erection, but would not hold up long enough for sexual activity. They had great success using the VED and retainer ring(s).

At about age 55, I developed ED due to the venous leakage and started using only a retainer ring. It was installed prior to getting an erection before sexual foreplay and as my erection developed, the ring would hold it for sexual activity.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on December 04, 2008, 10:27:55 AM
The usefulness of the VED cannot be overstated for those with leakage caused by diabetes and/or peyronies. By searching this forum it quickly becomes apparent how effective the VED can be for those following a daily routine for an extended period of time. Its also a very safe treatment when used correctly.                                                                                                              Any thoughts on my previous post?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Vitamin E with VED therapy
Post by: Old Man on December 04, 2008, 12:03:18 PM
newguy;

I was prescribed the VED way back in 1995 after my radical prostatectomy for the resulting ED problems. Tried the penile injections first which failed miserably for ED and caused more Peyronies Disease symptoms. Finally convinced my uro that the injections were not working and were developing more Peyronies Disease. He suggested the VED for erections, but did not think it would help with the Peyronies Disease.

He was wrong and soon afterwards I realized that the Peyronies Disease was seemingly slowing down and beginning to fade away somewhat. Also, he had suggested that I take high dosages of vitamin E along with the VED to see if that would help. For the first month of VED therapy, I took 1600 I.U.s of E, 400 four times a day. For the second month, I took 1200 I.U.s of E, 400 three times a day. For the third month, I tool 800 I.U.s of E a day 400 two times at breakfast and evening meal. Thereafter I have been taking 400 I.U.s per day after the evening meal. Six months of the VED therapy along with the E seemed to do the trick as my Peyronies Disease was virtually gone. It took another six months to "remove" the remaining nodules/plaque.

Today, I cannot feel any signs of Peyronies Disease at all in the penile shaft. I guess that it is in an arrested state at the moment. Since my first bout with Peyronies Disease, it came and went over the years so there is no guarantee that it won't come back, but so far I am good to go.

So, based on my experience with vitamin E along with the VED exercises, I can state that it seemed to help eliminate my symptoms. It apparently kept the blood thinned down and allowed it to flow better with the VED vacuum therapy

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Art on December 04, 2008, 09:05:15 PM
Good Evening Gentlemen !  I have read a few posts talking about VEDs.  Any particular recommendations ?  I am currently searching for a urologist that is at least willing to TALK with & INFORM me about options.  Not much luck ( wait three months for an appointment , Watch, wait & see if it goes away, my favorite - "OH, WELL.").  I am willing to spend a few bucks, but i want one that is safe.  i am also interested in the vitamin E therapies.  Are there recommended sched's for the VED's ? 
Thanks for any info ! ! !
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Usage schedules
Post by: Old Man on December 04, 2008, 10:21:18 PM
Art:

Welcome to the forum. You have come to the right place to get some answers to your questions. You asked about VEDs that are safe to use and maybe help with your Peyronies Disease symptoms. The choice of those on the forum using VEDs now is the three cylinder manual models that are available without a prescription of a doctor. There are others that require a prescription form a doctor to purchase, but they are basically the same unit with a different name. Currently, the best priced VED is available from the Fitzz Company at this web site:   www.fitzz.com 

The unit that I recommend is the Vitality OTC three cylinder manual model that sells there for $249.99 with free shipping and handling.

There is a protocol of exercises/therapy posted on the main forum home page under the title of Child Boards. To check this out, click on the Child Boards icon just below the Main forum link on the Home Page. It will bring a page listing all the topics in that board. There are two protocols listed there, one for the purchased three cylinder VEDs and one for the VEDs that guys have made themselves. Each protocol lists exactly what is involved in the VED therapy.

In addition, read all the posts you can under the VED board on the same topic page. It lists just about every post concerning VEDs and their use along with any results that have been achieved using a VED.

Let us know if you have other questions. We are here to help in any way possible. Others will probably give you some good information as well.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LoveMyHusband on December 05, 2008, 10:10:35 AM
But how does one get this Pentox?  Sounds like most doctors will NOT write you a perscription, I dont' think getting something out of a book or hearing it on a message board will be Ok with them, since most Docs are not even familair with treatment options for this.    Can you get this stuff without a persciption legally anywhere?  My husband is feeling down because he can not maintain an erection- at least not every day if we try.    Maybe every other day it will be firm enough (in the morning only)  3 days, he can do this, but no longer once a day.   For all the men on here on these boards, I would assume you are open with your wives, this is great, I do have that advantage with my husband, but he will not do the research, I must do that.  Which is Ok, he is up for anything I want him to do -in getting help.    Does everyone on here who used a Vacuum device also use the "ring" afterwards?  I worry this may hurt the veins in the long term?  And is this better than Trying Viagra , Cialis or other things?  We are really worried about what the futrue holds here, he is only turning 45 yrs.   It just seems too young to be dealing with that.  His testosterone is also Normal Low (at 344 when tested last month).   Normal was between 250- 1000.   
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: alcohen on December 05, 2008, 11:04:36 AM
I am sorry you are experiencing this with your husband.  I am dealing with all of the same things as your husband and I just turned 25...  I won't go into the details of my situation as I have posted them in this forum enough.  What area are you located in?  You just need to find the right doctor to prescribe Pentox.  I live in North Carolina and Dr. Culley Carson at UNC Hospital was happy to prescribe it after a quick basic exam...  I did not even have to request it.  Good luck.  If your husband finds himself in an appointment with a urologist who either refuses to prescribe Pentox or tells him that the only thing they can recommend is lots of Vitamin E and that the situation may fix itself in a year I would recommend that he stand up and leave, pay for his appointment, and never come back.  I went to three doctors, two of them urologists, who were all EXTREMELY hurtful towards me (told me it was all in my head, etc.) and were frankly MORONS in the area of Peyronie's Disease. 

Sorry if this took this thread off topic...  was trying to respond to her question. 
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on December 05, 2008, 02:58:14 PM
LoveMyHusband:

Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear that you and your husband are having such a terrible time with this problem. I will try to answer some of your concerns and questions about the VED therapy. For a lot of us on this forum and off the forum the VED therapy has been one of the few therapies that has shown some promise for ED and Peyronies Disease.

I was prescribed a VED in 1995 after a radical prostatectomy which left me just about totally unable to get and maintain an erection long enough for sexual activity. The pills were tried and none of them worked for my ED. Finally, my uro prescribed a VED to help with the ED. As a result of exercise sessions with the VED for erections, I discovered that it would help with my Peyronies Disease symptoms. Using a VED for erections will not cause damage to the penis if used in moderation and with extreme care in pumping the vacuum pressure. The retainer rings that come with the medical quality VED should also be used with extreme care. There are various tensions or strengths of the rings and their use must be experimented with until the right tension is found. Using the proper ring and the right amount vacuum pressure will provide an excellent way to achieve good erections and you should have no physical problems.

I suggest that you locate the VED thread on the Child Boards section of the forum and read all the compiled versions of posts about the VED that have been made for the past years.  You find the Child Boards on the Home Page of the forum and the link is shown just under the link to the main forum topics. Will be glad to assist you in any manner with questions and/or other items related to ED or Peyronies Disease.

Old Man
Title: Re: Traction
Post by: mikesb on December 05, 2008, 03:14:02 PM
Yup Old Man, I think I am going to opt for a VED small tube solution in conjunction with Pentox for the time being pending further development of a better ADS traction device and a better drug. Hoping to get my doc's buy in this coming week. Unfortunately for me, Fitzz does not ship to Canada so I am hoping the doc can recommend/prescribe a "medical quality" 3 cylinder system here..

Jackisback, any success on your quest for an "ADS" traction solution?

Regards to all here.....
Title: Re: Traction
Post by: Old Man on December 05, 2008, 04:29:34 PM
mikesb:

If you have not phoned Fitzz in person, you might want to ask them if they would ship to Canada if you paid the shipping and handling charges. I seem to remember that they have shipped to other countries before. Also, inquire if they have an outlet in Canada. Sometimes companies have stores in other countries.

Also, you might inquire from the Augusta Medical Systems (they make the Vitality VED) if they ship to Canada or if they have a distributor/sales outlet in Canada. Make sure that you specify the three cylinder VED when talking with Augusta Medical as the one they sell is called the Somaerect STF and is the three cylinder model. I don't know if they sell the Vitality OTC model as a three cylinder unit or not.

The web address of Augusta is:   www.augustams.com

Hope you have some success in getting a three cylinder VED at a reasonable price. Let me know if I can help in any way with either company.

Old Man
Title: Art, LoveMyHusband and other newcomers
Post by: Angus on December 05, 2008, 11:10:39 PM

   Here is a direct link to the VED thread in the Child Boards. Reading this will bring you quickly up to speed on where we are at with VED's on this board and you can read personal experiences there without searching the lengthy original board thread.

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,439.0.html

   Opening the main Child Boards page will provide good reading with highlights of the other threads in this forum.

   The VED requires dedication and time, but many men have gained relief using the VED for Peyronies and ED, sometimes in combination.

   Welcome to the board... you will find support here.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackisback on December 06, 2008, 02:53:12 AM
Lovemyhusband,

You can get Pentox under brand name Trental from mexmeds4you.com

I think it's the real stuff, and plan to continue taking it until I have the ability to see a more regionally renowned Uro who will prescribe me Pentox. You will find support for VED overwhelming. I believe it would be a mistake not to give it a try given the success rate and the potential it has shown forever. However, one should always listen to what their body tells them, and you as well I'm sure will be able to observe if changes in his erection quality get better or worse. Obviously if they get worse you need to back off. As for whether VED can help someone who can already get erect every other day, my Urologist who does work at a good institution and has not on the hospital website that he specializes in (among many other things) Peyronie's disease claims that it does not help. I would say that the medical community is not unanimous on this, and I can say that for short periods of time (weeks) the VED did help my erections despite already having some ability to get erection before.

I personally have had loads of problems with VED. I believe that it is partly due to a general loss in sensitivity of the nerves in my penis, and I don't really feel pain in the tube when I overpump.

Two more notes: only use the restrictor ring on the VED if he has to, and then no longer than 30 minutes.  Also, I don't think you're supposed to mix Viagra or any other erection drug with VED.
Title: Re: LoveMyHusband
Post by: Hawk on December 06, 2008, 03:02:17 AM
Welcome to the forum.  I commend your support for your husband and the forum as well as your willingness to find out what you need to learn.

I have a suggestion that will help you and others get faster, more direct answers.  If you notice, posters overlooked your comments about pentox and being open with their wives, as well as ED drugs and ED in general.  Like you, my first posts on a forum covered many topics because I had a lot to unload and I was in a hurry to get answers.

I learned that sticking with one topic per post helps.  Your post was fine from a forum stand point but after one or 2 responses to one question, members forget you also had other questions. Consider posting about pentox in the "Oral Treatments" topic.

Your husband seems to have significant ED but it seems that since he can function at times, he could probably benefit greatly from just a bit of help.  It is important that you understand all the issues surrounding ED such a the impact of adrenalin (often resulting from anxiety), antihistamines, and venous leakage.  It is also important to consider the role of arginine, horny goat weed, Ginko, VEDs, constriction nooses or rings, and common ED drugs.  Most of these help when used separately or together but there are important considerations. You can learn more about these in the ED Topic , and this VED topic.  You can direct specific questions there.

On the topic of a constriction band.  I think the rule is if you need it for intercourse, use it but use the largest one that will maintain an erection.  In fact, I would start with an Actis adjustable band and it may not even require a VED to give the needed extra degree of firmness.  It goes on and is removed a bit more gently.

regards

Hawk.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on December 06, 2008, 06:21:32 AM
Loves MyHusband
One of my problems is that I am always looking for ways to help my ED. Over the last 20 years of so I have tried everything legal and some from Mexico that were not.
After heart stents in 1996 my local uro put me on the VED without proper instructions and with in weeks I had pumped too much and caused a bruise that took some time to heal. Was probably my fault for not reading the instruction well.
For the next year I only used the VED sparingly, for sex with the constriction ring. 10/07 After failed implant surgery by my local uro I found this forum and Old Man. I followed his advice and within days felt like I had a penis again. The exercise helped a lot.
My only problem was not with the VED but the constriction rings. I have severe Venous Leakage and Corporal Fibrosis, among others, I found the tight pink Osborn D ring and that helped best, but at times I still lost the erection.
Over the next year plus, I continued the VED while looking for a doctor that could do a successful implant. After about 4 more local uro's I finally found an honest one and he referred me to Vanderbilt and Dr. Milam. I asked him about using the VED and he highly recommended it.You can read my surgical story under the surgery section.
My recommendation is do the exercise as outlined by Old Man. You will be pleasantly supprised in a few weeks with a larger more natural feeling penis.
To be honest I do not what I would have done with the exercise with the VED for the past year.
One other tip. Don't Ever-Never/Ever-Never/Ever-Never give up or stop having some form of sex.
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LoveMyHusband on December 07, 2008, 11:46:59 AM
Ok Question here:   The Urologist said he is 75% curved (from Pics I shown), now won't this be a MAJOR problem for these Vacumm devices? -making it more dangerous, if he pumps too hard , would get stuck in there? or he surely could not pump as much as the someone with half that much curvature?   I mentioned the Pump to his URO and he did not recommend - (Weeks ago-before I was reading & posting on this site), I did just call on Friday and speak to a Secretary about possibly getting this Pentox-if URO is willing to write a prescription.  Maybe I will hear back monday.   So I can get it legally -without a perscription using the Trental name from that site -if need be?   Seriously, who on here has a curvature as much as 75 or more % and uses the VED sucessfully?   This is what I need to know -before I buy one of these.  They do not discuss the Severity of the curvature when you look at the benefits of buying one.   ???
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on December 07, 2008, 11:57:10 AM
Dear Love my husband.

I think that your husband should come here, read and post.

That said, the degree of curvature is irrelevant. The penis starts limp and gradually gets filled with blood. As it does, in the narrowest tube, it finally plugs the diameter of tube, and then starts to elongate length-wise. As the penis comes to its stretched out length, there is more tension applied to the shorts side than to the long side. Because it is in the confines of the tube, it cannot fill out any more and it cannot bend at all.

Using lots of lubricant, I have never become stuck in a tube! Using the VED is not that "exciting" so the erection is more passive than active - when the vacuum is stopped, the penis starts to deflate rapidly. Occasionally when I am also aroused, it simply does not deflate that much, and it comes out slower. It then gradually fills out a bit more (now out of the confines of the tube) and the bend appears (though it is often noticeably less bent right afterwards).

I hope that makes sense. Other than a few exceptions, most folks have learned to use the VED without problem.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LoveMyHusband on December 07, 2008, 12:34:34 PM
My husband will not come here to post, he hates typing and is really not that articulate.  His posts would be like one sentence-if so.   And if he really started reading every thing I have read, it would NOT help him at all in feeling good about his situation. Believe me!   Since I started coming here, I have been feeling MORE devestated & now I am sooo preocupied &  worried about our future, I think I might be starting to get depressed.  The last thing I need is him feeling THIS way.   I am the researcher, he is good with that , I know he will do what he can - and what I buy or give him pill wise.  But that is all I will ask of him right now.  We are dealing with some issues in our sex life, my libito is WAY higher than his (Used to be other way around) but these past 3 months his has taken a nose dive,  he is feeling inadequate about not being about to perfrom as much as I want (I think some is psychological), I am having him go to an Encronloogist this Tues to get further testing to rule of prediabetes/thyroid issues -in why his testosterone level is low normal (344).    I do not want to add the added revelation that if he does not do this or that he will surely only get worse and only option being a Penile implant from NO decent Doctors in our area, and having to travel far away for appintments, etc,  if our insurance would even cover it?   Then I worry we shouldn't have sex, it will make it worse, sometimes too much reading only makes you worry more.  I know we need a Plan, and that is why I am here.  But he can not come here. Trust me. 
Title: Re: LoveMyHusband
Post by: Hawk on December 08, 2008, 01:19:51 AM
Relax,

I think things will get better.  Well lubricated sex will not make his Peyronies Disease worse.  If anything it will help, and it is your chance to build his confidence in a way that will benefit both of you and your relationship.  You have not yet begun to try any of the many things that can help with ED or Peyronies Disease.

I encourage you to relax and make this an exciting time of exploring what works and what doesn't with no pressure to perform.  If you truly love each other there can always be fulfilling sex.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: wayne999 on December 08, 2008, 01:52:59 AM
Quote from: Tim468 on December 07, 2008, 11:57:10 AM
That said, the degree of curvature is irrelevant. The penis starts limp and gradually gets filled with blood. As it does, in the narrowest tube, it finally plugs the diameter of tube, and then starts to elongate length-wise. As the penis comes to its stretched out length, there is more tension applied to the shorts side than to the long side. Because it is in the confines of the tube, it cannot fill out any more and it cannot bend at all.

When it plugs the diameter of the tube, if the penis still has more room to expand then from a girth perspective doesn't that sort of restrict the penis (i.e. it's not good in terms of girth - whilst the penis is "learning" to be straighter it's also being compressed ? Isn't the optimal solution to have the diameter such that it perfectly accomodates one's penis diamter wise BUT doesn't allow any curve to form so you still get the longitudinal stretch? (This would no doubt mean some sort of home made apparatus).

EDIT:
Also wanted to ask, exactly how does Peyronies Disease cause a waisitng effect? And is the idea with the VED also to aplly a greater stretch/expansion in terms of girth to the tissue that is affected by the waisting/bottle necking etc. than the rest of the penis? Because i'm just trying to visualise it, and it would seem to me that an equal force is applied throughout the penis (from a girth perspective). As usual, i'm also trying to suss out how the treatment of these waisting effects may vary with congenital or Peyronies Disease induced curvature.
Title: Wasting Effect
Post by: jackp on December 08, 2008, 07:05:38 AM
Let me see if I can explain the wasting effect and how it effects the penis as told to me by my doctor.
Hold up your finger and curve to the degree of your curve. If the curve goes away (like mine did) what you have left is on the short side of the curve. It only took from 1995 to 2008 for a doctor to explain it to me.
IMHO if the doctor I was going to in 1995 had explained this to me and put me on the VED exercise I would have not lost 23% of my length.
In the year between the failed implant and sesesful implant I followed Old Man's advise. gained back some lost size even after all that time, peyronies scar would not let me gain back more.
After a few days of propere VED exercise my penis began to feel normal again.
All I can say is if you guys don't have or use a VED you are letting peyronies, ED, venous leakage and corporal fibrosis take over. The longer you wait the more damage that you can not undo.
Jackp
Title: Re: Wayne - Waisting / Wasting
Post by: Hawk on December 08, 2008, 01:14:00 PM
There may or may not be some confusion here:

Wasting - the reduction in size or volume (such as wasting away)

Waisting - The narrowing of an object around the midsection such as a human waist.  In Peyronies Disease we commonly call this hour glass deformity.

You have to love the English language :)

Both can occur due to loss of elasticity that prevents the penis or part of the penis from stretching to full size.  This deformity can cause a short side resulting in a curve, a plaque around the shaft causing an hour glass, or a dent in one or two spots.  The plaque can also be more generally distributed causing size loss with little curve.
Title: Re: VED's - Recommendations and a Question about VED's
Post by: tired on December 11, 2008, 01:43:09 PM
sorry i'm not sure how to ask a question but I was wanting to know the best ved to buy without a prescription, maybe a couple of choices, and can they make the peyronies worse if not used correctly
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on December 11, 2008, 03:59:13 PM
tired:

Welcome to the forum as I notice that you have posted only for the first time. You have come to the right place for answers to your questions about Peyronies Disease as well as ED. There are a lot of highly experienced guys on the forum and are willing to help out in any case.

There are several good VEDs out there that work well for Peyronies Disease therapy. Most of us on this forum recommend using the three cylinder VED. There is a protocol to be used with these model VEDs posted on the main forum under the Child Boards link on the Home Page.

The one that most of us recommend is the Vitality OTC three cylinder model VED that is available without a prescription. The web site for it is:    www.fitzz.com

Open this web site home page and select a link to men's health or health products and you can locate the Vitality OTC VED. The cost right now is $249.99 with free shipping and handling. If you use this promo code you can get a discount from the above price---TEAM. If you call in your order mention this word and if you order on line type in the word on your order to get the discount.

Now about using the VED with Peyronies Disease. Yes, you can cause further damage to your penis and/or Peyronies Disease if you use the VED incorrectly. The watchword that I always state is this = if there is any pain or discomfort present while doing the protocol exercises, you are doing something incorrectly or you have other problems. In any case, only you can be the judge of how much vacuum pressure you should pump while doing the exercises.

We are all here to help in any way possible. So,feel free to ask any and all questions you may have about VED usage or any other Peyronies Disease related problems you might have.

Hope the above helps with your questions.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Recommendations and a Question about VED's
Post by: newguy on December 11, 2008, 04:02:29 PM
Quote from: tired on December 11, 2008, 01:43:09 PM
sorry i'm not sure how to ask a question but I was wanting to know the best ved to buy without a prescription, maybe a couple of choices, and can they make the peyronies worse if not used correctly

I'm sure you'll receive some good suggestions for which VED to purchase if you wish to go down that route. As for making your peyronie's worse, any approach used incorrectly can make a considiton worse, much in the same way that any substance is toxic in excess (even water). I would say though that the VED is very difficult to misuse if you follow set instructions and routines. It's a very tried and tested path and I think it extremely unlikely that it will make your condition worse. It can certain help it though, so go for it!

EDIT: see below :)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: wayne999 on December 11, 2008, 06:25:23 PM
sorry i made a post in the traction thread that was more directed about VED

curious to know peoples thoughts about:

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,575.msg17119.html#msg17119
Title: Message for Old Man!!!
Post by: Godzilla U.K. on December 12, 2008, 09:48:42 AM
Hi, This is my first post; I am 44yr old in the U.K. and have this curve to the left between 30-40 degrees for as long as I can remember (its almost a banana shape).  I saw a Uro who offered surgery about 5 yrs ago. There is no pain during sex ( just to say lately after sex in the middle of night I find myself waking up with an erection which can be quite painful and quite rigid!!). 6 months ago I had blood in my sperm. This was due to uncomfortable sex position so I went to see a different Uro as I still wasn't sure if it was Peyronies. Upon checking he found no bumps or lumps and put it down to Cong. curve. However the curve did increase by about 5-10 degrees after the sperm in blood incident. Again I was told by this Uro the curve wasnt bad enough to go for Surgery but could have it done if I chose to. I am left with worry if this could get worse and what options are there other than Surgery? Is Pentox or Traction any good? The Uro in the U.K. hasn't heard of Pentox before and says the only option is surgery.
Also would it be a good idea to post pics on this site to illustrate the curve or is that not allowed??
i put this posting in another section but was advised to put in here by jackp especiall for the attn. of Old Man or anyone else who could help. Thanking you all in advance.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Curve problem
Post by: Old Man on December 12, 2008, 11:03:01 AM
GodzillaUK:

From the background that you give in your post, it sounds like that you have a combination of two things. First, IMO opinion, you did have congenital curvature which in itself is not a major problem with having sex unless it is so severe that you cannot penetrate, etc. Second, sounds like that you have "acquired" Peyronies Disease due to some trauma to your penis. There are many things that you should try to help with the Peyronies Disease prior to even considering surgery as that is considered to the last resort after all other therapies/treatments have been exhausted.

So, I would highly recommend that you read a lot on the Child Boards section topics before embarking on an all out fight with your Peyronies Disease. You can come up with a history of just about any case of Peyronies Disease that members of this forum have presented.

After you have done that and decided to do something serious about your Peyronies Disease, then start it with a determined effort to stay with the program. I strongly urge you to at least consider the VED protocol that is posted on the Child Board topic section of the Home Page here. The weapon of choice for most us using the VED is the three cylinder VED which is available in several different price ranges. The Fitzz company has the Vitality OTC three cylinder model at a reasonable price, but it might not be available in the UK. The Augusta Medical Systems has an outlet in the UK and you can obtain that web site from their home site at this address:   www.augustams.com

If I can help further, just give me a PM or post here.

Old Man
Title: Great News (for me)
Post by: mikesb on December 12, 2008, 11:26:06 AM
Thanks for all your PM help Old Man. I contacted the Fitzz people and they now ship to Canada (obviously the purchaser is responsible for Custom's Cost etc). That is great news for us Canadians because neither my uro nor my GP could source a "medical quality" 3 cylinder system here in Canada.

After a flat out refusal from my uro, my GP reviewed the whole situation and prescribed Pentox for me (initially for three months) his only caveat is that he wants to compare blood work after the three months before continuing. Things are looking UP. My uro/GP and I agree that if no change is seen after three months that is still a win because the disease has been active the last 6 plus months after having been dormant for almost two years.

Thanks again Old Man and all of you guys here!!!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices-Does anyone use AUGUSTA Vacuum Devices?
Post by: LoveMyHusband on December 12, 2008, 11:45:01 AM
I wrote to my Husbands Urologist and he did agree to give him Trental (is this the exact same thing as Pentox??) sounds like 1 pill 3 times a day for 1 month, then it changes and it has 5 refills.  I have not picked it up yet.  I also asked for a 3 cylindar Vacuum device to be perscribed and the secretary told me they only deal with "AUGUSTA Vacuum devices --here is the link ,they are not 3-cylindar.   But now we have an appointment in Jan for him to go and see how one of these Augusta's are used.  Anyone use this kind?  What is your oponion?


http://www.americandiabeteswholesale.com/-strse-533/Augusta-Medical-Vitality-Plus/Detail.bok

I just called Augusts 1-800- # and I guess they do have a 3 cylinder one called SOMAerectStf for Peyronnies.   They are now checking to see what -if any, his insurance would cover for this one.  If too high, I guess the one on Fittz ($) should be my choice then?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: voulezvous on December 12, 2008, 01:45:45 PM
At the risk of interupting the thread of an important issue (access to 3 piece VED's), I have a question of my own that I don't believe I've ever seen posted or answered:

I have been using a VED steadily now for over a year & believe it essential to both the
"rebuilding" process but also to minimize shrinkage. However, the last time I asked a urologist about its benefit, I was told that the use of a VED is not very useful because the blood entering the penis from the vacuum is not arterial blood but is venial. While an erection may be produced, the VED does nothing to promote the general "health" of the arteries (artery?) within the penis which will gradually develop plaque (as in high blood pressure) unless blood is flowing - as it is in a "normal" erection.

Any experts out there who can elaborate or explain this??
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/sources
Post by: Old Man on December 12, 2008, 02:16:58 PM
LovingMyHusband:

There are two models of VEDs perhaps more that we on the forum have been using including the two you mention in your post.

I will try to help you with the differences between these two units. The one available from the Fitzz company is made by the Augusta Medical Systems company, priced much more reasonable, is basically the same unit as the Soma STF. The Fitzz VED is the one called Vitality OTC three cylinder manual model priced currently at $249.99 with free shipping and handling. It also carries a discount if you mention the word TEAM in either your phone or web order. The one from Augusta, Soma STF, is the VED that was marketed after the Soma Erect unit failed to get approval from FDA. The STF three cylinder model costs somewhere around $600.00 plus shipping and handling.

You should hear from Augusta Medical's insurance department before making the final purchase. In some cases, insurances will pay about 80% of the cost if prescribed for ED conditions. I know of few, if any, insurances that will pay for a VED purchase when prescribed for Peyronies Disease. So be careful how your doctor prescribes the VED if you go for the STF model. The Vitality OTC VED does not require a prescription.

Both of these VEDs will serve the same purpose, just much differenc in price. The quality is the same for both units.

Hope this helps clarify your concerns. If we can help further, just feel free to ask any and all questions.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on December 12, 2008, 02:33:22 PM
voulezvous:

The question about whether blood drawn into one's penis via use of a VED has been raised many times on this forum. There are several schools of thought about whether or not the blood drawn into the corpora by a VED is aterial or venous blood.

The principle of an erection goes something like this: the brain triggers the arousal and sends nerve signals for the sexual organs to begin their process. These nerves in turn causes the blood flow to start through the arteries into the corpora chambers. There are valves (similar to a check valve in a pipe line) that open to allow the flow in and as the pressure of blood causes the erection process to start, these valves close and prevents the blood from flowing out, at least in a normal erection, thus the penis becomes erect. After the body has reached a climax, produced an orgasm, ejaculation and the sex act is completed, these valve open and let the blood flow out through the veins. (If one has the problem of venous leakage, erections in most cases, are virtually impossible to hold up long enough for any sexual activity. So, the use of a VED for erections for sex does have its place in sexual health of a person.)

The above is just my condensed version of the erection process and others could maybe give a better description for the process. At any rate, IMHO, the blood drawn in through use of a VED produced erection is arterial and not venous blood. As I said earlier others, including doctors, disagree with thisi theory and state that it is venous blood.

At any rate, whether or not the blood is arterial or venous, it serves the same basic purpose. Even if it is venous blood, the fact that the erectile tissue is being inflated, serves to cause at least some arterial blood which does promote penile health. Any inflating of the erectile chambers in ones penis serves the purpose of what nocturnal erections (provided one still gets them). Therefore, good benefits surely is caused by use of the VED therapy for one's penis.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LoveMyHusband on December 12, 2008, 04:57:37 PM
Old Man:  Ok, So  you are telling me that the same COmpnay (Augusta) makes BOTH THe SOMAerectSTF and the one being sold under Fittz for $249 plus shipping without a perscription?  Did I read that right?   I did hear back from Augusta by phone and our insurance has a $300 deductable for this, plus we'd have to pay 25% plus another $100, so it would be over $500 for that model.  So IF they are TRULY the same in value and getting what needs to be done, then I will opt for the $250 one.   Why are they marketed like this --if from the same company?  Is it better to get manual or battery power?  Is one more likely to be easier to HURT YOURSELF?  (That is the main thing for us, I will gladly pay more if it is a better machine and would be less likely to have an accident with it).  Please give Advice .   

And should my husband start the Trental WHEN he gets the VED or before he gets it-as I am able to get his perscription right now?  Is trental the same thing as Pentox?  Why the diffrence in names?   His appointment with the Urologist for learning how to use this is not until Jan 8th --and that would be only with the Augusta SomaerectSTF device (But if they are exactly the same) then it should not matter.     Thanks for all the help on here
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on December 12, 2008, 05:01:30 PM
As I have said before, blood does not flow backwards through veins as they have valves that promote movement back to the heart. Thus, a minimal amount of blood could be coaxed into the coproa by a VED - most of it has to come through the arterial system, and it then stays there.

A little experiment. If you have visible veins on your arm, try this. Pump up the veins and then occlude one with a finger (by pushing down into the skin). Then, with another finger, "strip" the vein of blood by sweeping along it's length, with pressure directed down into the skin, moving towards the heart. Then release the finger that is closer to the heart. You will see that the fein stays flat and bloodless. Then release the first finger which has been pressing down all this time, and watch the blood refill the vein - this should help people (apparently some doctors as well) "get" that veins have valves.

Note - you can also - on longer veins - sometimes see blood flow partway backwards TO a valve, and then stop. That looks cool too.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: voulezvous on December 12, 2008, 05:35:19 PM
Tim & Old Man

Thanks for your explanations. I believe that I now understand what the difference is between arterial & venous. Common sense told me the same...after all, there is only one substance that goes through the chambers & expands the tissue. Frankly, I can't understand why a dr. would use this as a way to discourage any confidence in VED therapy. Perhaps a tendancy to "favor" surgery.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/which to buy
Post by: Old Man on December 12, 2008, 05:48:54 PM
LovingMyHusband:

OK, now that you know buying the prescribed model would cost you more dollars, it makes sense to buy the VED from the Fitzz company. Yes, the VEDs are basically the same unit, both in quality and purpose. The Soma STF has a different color and maybe a few more items in the package, but that would not matter using the VED for Peyronies Disease.

The Vitality OTC three cylinder manual model from the Fitzz has worked great for a lot of guys on this forum. At a price of $249.99 with free shipping and handling would be much more economical for you than the Soma STF from Augusta.

Yes, both VEDs are manufactured by Augusta Medical Systems and are of good medical quality. The Vitality OTC just does not require a prescription since it an over the counter model. The manual model is preferred over the battery powered model for two reasons: 1. the extra cost and 2. you can control the vacuum pressure better with the manual model. You simply just don't pump the manual model when you feel too much pressure whereas the battery powered model requires that the switch be turned on and off. The delay in turning it off might cause one to overpump if they are not extremely careful.

So, bottom line for you is this, get the Vitality OTC manual model from the Fitzz company. As far as I know, you can take the Trental/Pentox at the same time. You might want to get blood work periodically to check the vitals, etc. The names are one and the same, one is brand name and the other generic. Another name is Pentoxyfiline (Spelling may be incorrect).

Hope the above helps with your questions. Feel free to let us know if you have further need, etc.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: wayne999 on December 12, 2008, 09:04:42 PM
Sorry if i've already received a reply somewhere, but does someone mind answering my previous question ? (it's related to VED/traction, i provided the link in this thread to my post in the traction thread)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LoveMyHusband on December 13, 2008, 10:35:12 AM
Old Man, just ordered the Fittz model and the price was lowered to $229 plus using the TEAM as you said saved an additional $34 so the price with free shipping was a little less than $200.  Sure beats paying $600 for the Somo model they want to sell, I guess that is how they make money when you have an Insurance company that will pay for alot of it.  Then they make money on the side with these lower cost models without perscription.     So how many times a day is my husband supposed to do this, I remember reading somewhere you need to spend like a half hour with it on, I am highly confused, I copied the page about the exercises, but still do not "get it", it gives no indication how long this takes a day, or should it be done 2 or 3 times a day?  Will I get some kind of Video with this machine?   If he can start now before his appointment on Jan 8th, maybe he should, or should be wait? 
Title: Re: Wayne
Post by: Hawk on December 13, 2008, 02:18:16 PM
Referring to long-duration gentle stretching as opposed to short duration stretching you asked:

Quote from: wayne999 on December 10, 2008, 07:02:38 PM
I was wondering, doesn't this imply then that whatever stretching occurs during VED routines, it quickly goes back to normal given the average session is only 10 or 20 minutes per night?

I guess it suggests that could be a possible reaction but many men on this forum have had success indicating that at least some of the gains remain.  A when anticipated or theorized results differ from actual results, needless to say the actual results are the final word.  It would be good to have well controlled large studies on Traction and the VED but we do not.  That is why input from those using the devices with no financial stake in the device are so important.

Hawk
Title: Re: LoveMyHusband - Should Pentox be delayed until VED usage starts?
Post by: Hawk on December 13, 2008, 02:23:25 PM
The ansewer is no.  Many use one and not the other.  Both are long commitment treatment.  The pentox (Trentall) will take a while to start having any impact on Peyronies Disease.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/time limits and number of times a say
Post by: Old Man on December 13, 2008, 02:45:31 PM
LovingMyHusband:

Nice to hear that you got your VED at the reduced price and it is now ordered. It will be OK as far as I know for your husband to begin the therapy sessions prior to his visit to the doctor again.

There is the protocol as you mentioned that is posted in the Child Boards section of the main forum. Go back and look at the one that states it is for the three cylinder purchased model VEDs. There are footnotes that show recommended things to do with the therapy. Each week of the schedule shows the cylinder or cylinders of the VED that should be used for that particular week of the schedule. For example: Week 1 shows that all three cylinders should be used. The next change in the Schedule shows that only A and B cylinders are used and so on down the weekly schedule for the 26 weeks protocol.

The time limits that a person should follow depends on how much time he has to devote to doing the exercises. For the first few days of the exercises, he should only do them for about 10 minutes for his body to get "used" to the vacuum pressure in his penis. As time goes on, he can increase the time until he is comfortable with that time limit. Some can do the exercises for longer periods of time than others, so he has to be the judge of how much he can tolerate with the added vacuum pressure and adjust his time schedule accordingly. I would suggest that 10 to 15 minutes at a session would be enough after the first few weeks of therapy. The number of times each day should probably be only once a day for the first weeks and then maybe twice a day if it is comfortable for him. If he uses two sessions per day, then reduce the time of each session somewhat so that the overall time per day does not cause any discomfort.

Caution is the watchword in VED therapy. Overpumping the vacuum pressure can and will cause further trauma and/or problems so he should be extremely careful with the amount of pressure he uses. If he feels pain or discomfort at any time while using the VED, something would not be right. So, if this occurs, find out the cause before continuing with the sessions.

Practice with using the VED is a must do thing. He should practice using it with only mild vacuum pressure before starting with the higher vacuum, etc. We are all here to help, so feel free to ask any and all questions you or he may have. Hope this gets you and him started out on the journey toward help for his Peyronies Disease and any other men's health problems.

One further note: It always helps with getting a good vacuum seal around the base of one's penis to shave off enough pubic hair so that the mouth of the cylinders does catch the hair into it. If this is done, one must keep the hair shaved periodically to keep the skin area clean shaven.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: ggg953 on December 14, 2008, 04:55:59 AM
Dear Old Man,

First let me say how great it is that I found this place and that there are guys like you out there who really understand and care about this thing (no pun intended ;) That said, I'm replying in this thread as I cannot figure how else to get this up there :( So, here goes:

I'm 39 years old and started noticing pain towards the end of right corpora cavernosa, on the outside aspect of it. When I examined myself, I noticed that that side was a little firmer inside. I am sure it was from a specific long term, off and on again relationship with a girl who could only be satified by hours of repeat, but very shallow penetration. Penis continually entering and exiting as opposed to properly performed "penis in the vagina" sex. Eventually, I would be semi erect and this is when I think the damage occured.

I went to Dr. Gary Bellman, a Urologist in West Hills with suspicions of Peyronie's. He misdiagnosed me with Prostitus and put me on 500 mg of Cipro twice a day. Two weeks later I started noticing that the head of my penis was "tilting" a little bit to the right and indenting right below the glands on the bottom side. He examined me again and diagnosed me with Peyronie's. He put me on Transdermal Verapamil 15% Gel twice daily. I am concerned with the timely treatment of this as I've read in many places that when treated early on, it can completely go away. One month of Topical Verapamil and Colchicine as well as all of the Dr. Herazy supplements, I have masturbated very infreaquently and not had sex with anyone.

When I spoke with the rep at PDLabs, they told me it was actually good to continue in normal sexual function as the penis can use the extra blood flow, provided it is not at all aggressive. Is this true? The pain, which is slight, doesn't interfere with my pleasure really and I can masturbate and have sex with mild discomfort. Is this wise? Also, what would be a basic regimen to start with regard to the following which I discovered might assist in the problem ?VITAMIN E, POTABA, COLCHICINE, COLLAGENASE or NEPRINOL AFD. Will any of these treatments help? My fear is that by doing nothing for the first few months, the scar tissue will increase and so will the distortion.

FYI: I attribute the condition my taking high doses of "Move Free" (Glucosamine Hydrochloride and Chondroitin Sulphate), past the recommended "loading phase" as the pamphlet given to me by PDLabs, points to this as a cause. I have been enjoying the effects of it in relation to my sports activities and have been taking the "loading phase" dosage for a couple months instead of tapering off.

I appreciate your time and expertise with regard to my condition and look forward to, and truly appreciate your response. You can imagine how scary this is for me.

Best,
G
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/questions relative sexual activity
Post by: Old Man on December 14, 2008, 03:24:48 PM
ggg953:

Welcome to the forum as I said in my earlier PM to you about answering your questions more fully. You have come to a place that you can get help and answers to many and varied quesions about Peyronies Disease as well as ED. We are all here to help others in any way possible.

Now to give you my opinion of what you should be doing - only you can determine whether or not you want to masturbate or have sexual relations while you have Peyronies Disease symptoms. The amount of sexual activity can only be determined by you based on how much time you care to devote to those activities. So, you decide that course of action.

It is the considered opinion of many on this forum including myself that firmly believe good continued blood flow into and out of the corporal chambers can only be of benefit for Peyronies Disease. So, anything you can do to help that will be to your advantage whether or not it is masturbation with a fully erect penis or with use of a VED and its protocol. Strongly suggest that you read all the posts relative VED usage, traction and any other topic on the Child Boards section of the main forum. The link to it is located on the home page just under the link to the main forum board. Select any topic there, especially the VED topic, and you can read compiled posts relative VED usage and protocols for their use.

For many of us, the VED therapy has proved to be of great value in getting rid of Peyronies Disease and also helping with getting erections when ED is present. There are posts relating to the success with VED therapy on the Child Boards too as well as those scattered among posts on other topics.

As far as taking supplements along with any other therapy treatment, that would be up to you also. There are many supplements that have been tried by members and their results or lack of results is posted in the oral treatment topic. So, bottom line is, you should do your homework by reading as many posts about any subject you desire.

I am sure that you will have more questions, so feel free to ask away and we all will be glad to assist you in any way possible. In the meantime, try to remain calm and realize that you do have to get started on some form of therapy as soon as possible.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: wayne999 on December 15, 2008, 05:39:21 AM
Sorry could someone reply to my earlier post:

"When it plugs the diameter of the tube, if the penis still has more room to expand then from a girth perspective doesn't that sort of restrict the penis (i.e. it's not good in terms of girth - whilst the penis is "learning" to be straighter it's also being compressed ? Isn't the optimal solution to have the diameter such that it perfectly accomodates one's penis diamter wise BUT doesn't allow any curve to form so you still get the longitudinal stretch? (Although this may mean some sort of home made apparatus)."

I'm basically asking is there any damage if the smallest tube is too small diameter wise to accomodate one's penile girth upon full erection with the VED ? Do people find this is not really a problem anyway ?

I plan to ONLY use the smallest tube to try and correct a congenital 40 degree downward curve, so i am not following the recommonded protocol (but i have a bit of a waisting effect so i don't know if the smallest tube will help with that). Is this ok?  OldMan et al ?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on December 15, 2008, 07:23:09 AM
Wayne

IMHO If you don't want to follow the protocol why bother?
The protocol is tried and proven and only using one step will not help you.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: wayne999 on December 15, 2008, 07:44:35 AM
Quote from: jackp on December 15, 2008, 07:23:09 AM
Wayne

IMHO If you don't want to follow the protocol why bother?
The protocol is tried and proven and only using one step will not help you.


Because i am wanting to correct my downward congenital curve.....i dont know why putting it in the larger cylinder will help because the curve will be able to take shape in it. I want to only use the smaller tube so it always promotes strecthing of the shorter side/tissues.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/correct procedure
Post by: Old Man on December 15, 2008, 02:27:43 PM
Wayne999:

I agree with JackP. If you are not going to follow the presented proven protocol, why continue? The small cylinder is designed to help your penis learn to become straight again. However, I must tell you that there are very few, if any, cases of congenital curvature that the VED protocol has helped. Congenital conditions have been there from birth and are caused by some problem when the male sexual organs are being formed in the womb. It is recognized that congenital curves if not very bad, are usually not considered to be of any great detriment for having sex.

In fact, some women like the curve as it touches parts of their anatomy that otherwise do not get touched during normal sexual activity. There are many web sites that explain the different positions of sexual relations and some that I have visited do not address congenital curvature as being "out of the ordinary shape" of penises.

I still highly recommend that if you are going to use the VED for helping with your curves that you maintain the protocol to the letter by the week as it is presented. But, remember that congenital curves are not very likely to see any results from VED therapy. It will keep your penis more healthy by inducing a better blood flow into and out of the corporal chambers.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: despise on December 15, 2008, 04:35:30 PM
Ok well I just recently found out I have peyronies disease. I am only 17 and my question is. Is it to early to start this therapy the VED's? I should wait right?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/correct procedure
Post by: wayne999 on December 17, 2008, 10:40:23 AM
Quote from: Old Man on December 15, 2008, 02:27:43 PM
Wayne999:

I agree with JackP. If you are not going to follow the presented proven protocol, why continue? The small cylinder is designed to help your penis learn to become straight again. However, I must tell you that there are very few, if any, cases of congenital curvature that the VED protocol has helped. Congenital conditions have been there from birth and are caused by some problem when the male sexual organs are being formed in the womb. It is recognized that congenital curves if not very bad, are usually not considered to be of any great detriment for having sex.

Maybe there are no cases of congenital curves being helped with the VED because no one has tried and stuck at it long enough ?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on December 17, 2008, 12:03:21 PM
Wayne,

Not only has no one tried it but no one has tried it using the graduated cylinder technique, which is the key factor. There are some negative reports about VED's helping (ie not helping) congenital curve on PE sites - but again, they did not do the narrow cylinder technique, which clearly exerts a longitudinal pull on the curved penis that a large cylinder alone does not.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: mikesb on December 17, 2008, 02:51:59 PM
Question gentlemen.

My doc suggested waiting 1 month (after starting Pentox) before stressing the penis in any way (he mentioned traction, PE etc) Should that be the approach with VED as well? He told me it takes Pentox a month to establish a beneficial rapport with the body. I should add that my Peyronies Disease is considered "active" at the present time although the "activity" so to speak seems to have at least temporarily stabilized to me, at least a month or two prior to starting Pentox last week.

Thanks

Mike
Title: 26 week protocol ...a last question.
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on December 17, 2008, 08:24:04 PM
hey everyone,
i'd had a cheap one that scared me that it might do more harm than good.

Just got the nice 3 cylinder "vitality" one from Fitzz! man, it's really good quality! very excited.

my question before i start the 26 week protocol is:
- do i do the 10 cycles all at once, or spread over the day?
- do i just do one set of 10 cycles or can i do it twice in a day (equaling 20 cycles)
(i'm assuming it's one set of 10, all at once, one set each day - but this isn't something i want to get wrong!)


that should be all i need to know to get started.

thanks a ton for all the support and guidance!


Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/protocol
Post by: Old Man on December 17, 2008, 10:25:33 PM
getting_there_inOr:

Glad that you have gotten the new Vitality OTC three cylinder model VED. You have chosen a very good one for Peyronies Disease therapy.

Yes, you should follow the 26 week protocol to the letter. It is posted in the Child Boards section and the link to it shown just below the link to the main forum topic page. There are two protocols listed there, one for the homemade VEDs using three separate cylinder assemblies and one for the three cylinder purchased manual model VEDs.

The heading of the one you should be using (purchased VED protocol) has several lead in comments about the VEDs. There foot notes at the bottom that explain how the cycles work and roughly how many you should use each therapy session.

Now about the questions: You do the 10 cycles all in one therapy session - not spread out over the day. For the first week or two you should only use one 10 cycle session per day to allow your penis to get used to the vacuum pressure. CAUTION NOTE: DO NOT, REPEAT, DO NOT OVERPUMP THE VACUUM PRESSURE AT ANY TIME. LESS IN THIS CASE IS BETTER - NOT MORE!!!  If you feel any discomfort or pain while pumping, you are doing something wrong, so discover the cause and correct it before proceeding with the pumping cycles. Above all, use enough lubricant so that your penis slides easily into and out of the cylinders, especially when using all three with the small cylinder in place.

After you have mastered the procedure and become comfortable with the exercises, you can increase the number of cycles from 10 to any higher number so long as you feel no pair or discomfort from the longer sessions. You can even do two sessions per day but do not overdo either one. Only you can determine when you have reached your physical limit without pain or discomfort, so pump wisely and do not cause further trauma to your most prized possession.

Follow the instructions that came with the unit to assemble it and I would strongly suggest that you practice using all three cylinders with very low pressure for a few days prior to beginning the 26 week protocol. You should become thoroughly familiar with the VED operation and know your limits of pressure before embarking on the daily schedule.

Again, do not overpump the pressure at any time while using the VED. If you have an ED problem and need the VED to achieve erections, have venous leakage and require the use of restrictor ring, be careful to use the correct tension ring. In case you do use the restriction rings practice with the VED and placing them on your penis to determine which one has the correct tension. You do not need to use too much tension, only enough to hold up your erection to be able to complete a sexual activity, etc.

Final note: Always use enough lubricant to allow for ease of entering and sliding action of your penis in the cylinders. Will be glad to answer any further questions you might have, we are all here to assist in any way. Best to you and happy pumping!!

Old Man
Title: Question Old Man
Post by: isitgone on December 19, 2008, 12:23:12 PM
    I had a nerve saving (Ha) prostatectomy exactly 2 years ago and have had hell of a time getting an erection. I used all the oral drugs with no effect and then turned to injections. Could no do much with that until TriMix. After a few 90% erections I developed Peyronies. Had an upward banana curve, lost 1.5 inches in length, and have a center indention.
    Thanks for this forum! I purchased a Vitality unit six months ago and now have a pretty straight penis, still shorter and with the indention. I still cannot get a full erection I can use after swearing off the injections. I can get about 70% with self or oral stimulation, so I can see it may be coming back.
     My question: today I masturbated after a Vitality session and had some kind of ejaculation. Is this possible? I have been dry since the surgery and orgasms have been quite wonderful.
     Your thoughts, please.

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/ejaculation after radical surgery
Post by: Old Man on December 19, 2008, 03:27:49 PM
isitgone:

Well now, you should be proud that you reached a climax and experienced an ejaculation no matter the size or amount, etc. It is not very common for ejaculation to occur after any surgical removal of the prostate, but in some cases it can occur and you should consider yourself fortunate to do so. However, I imagine that it was only the fluid from reproductive glands other than the prostate. There are seven glands that make up the repro glands complex and they could have had pent up fluids that were ejaculated.

Even though the prostate gland no longer is one's body, the nerves will still allow one to reach a climax and experience the "feeling" of ejaculation up to and including the spastic reflexes that accompany an ejaculation. I am almost 14 years out from a radical non nerve sparing surgery and I can still have both sensations while having sex, just no external fluid ejaculation.

Now if you do not experience a full erection with self manipulation or foreplay with your partner, you can always use the Vitality VED for an erection and use the retainer ring(s) to help hold up the erection long enough for penetrative sex or masturbation. You have to practice with the tension rings until you find the right one that works best for you.

Hope this helps,

Old Man
Title: Thanks for reply
Post by: isitgone on December 19, 2008, 03:44:42 PM
I tried the rings once and it was too large to hold erection. Tried again with smaller ring and it held not long enough through foreplay. She said it felt cold and sensation was not good for me. Is there good sensation if done properly?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/climax sensation
Post by: Old Man on December 19, 2008, 03:52:21 PM
isitgone:

There is some loss of sensation using the rings for erections, but with the proper sizing and tension, it should not do what you experienced. Sometimes ones partner does feel a colder feeling of the penis. You may have to use two rings. If your VED came with several sized rings and different tensions, you need to practice pumping up, placing the rings on and wait for a period of time to see if it will hold up the erection (not more than 30 minutes though). Keep trying the various sizes and tension this way until you find the right combination of ring or rings.

As the rings get older, they lose their tension and almost always two have to be used then. It does take a bit of practice to get used to using the rings and finding the right fit, etc.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: double eagle on December 23, 2008, 09:51:49 AM
Merry Christmas to me! Just ordered the Vitality 3 cylinder VED using the coupon code and free shipping from Fitzz!

I can't wait to get going, now that the pain is subsiding! This will marry nicely with my daily exercise routine, just exercising a different part of the body!

I haven't felt this pumped about getting started battling this before, basically been waiting for the pain to go away and fighting the urge to fall into "victim-ville".

To straighter days ahead.  8)



Title: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bassman on December 23, 2008, 04:51:52 PM
To whom it may concern ?

I started using my SOMA manual pump VED for the first time today starting your posted 26 week protocol. After my first 10 cycle exercise I felt no pain or discomfort but noticed three small ( 1/8" dia. ) red dots, two on the shaft and one on the head of my penis - did I over do it ? Do I now need to wait until they go away before I resume or can I continue tomorrow with my second session. Again, I felt no pain and see no brusing.

Bassman
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on December 23, 2008, 06:50:54 PM
bassman:

OK, now that you have your VED and starting out on the journey of the protocol you are on the right road. Yes, you might have overpumped the pressure since it was your first time. You should be certain that the red dots you see are not open and possible subject to bleeding. If you see any more with the next pumping cycle, you should stop for a few days before continuing with the therapy.

The watchword for VED usage is CAUTION. Exercise extreme caution when pumping, pump slowly, wait a few seconds between each pump cycle to allow the blood to flow in easily. Too fast pumping will also cause an extreme amount of vacuum pressure which it not necessary. VED therapy is a case where less is more.

You are on the road to good results if you use your best judgment when using the VED. Again, be careful and you will receive more benefits than if you overdo it.

If you have any question at all about using the VED, don't hesitate to ask. It is better to be safe than sorry. There is little chance of any trauma using the VED if used properly.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bassman on December 23, 2008, 11:55:23 PM
Old Man,

Thanks for the quick response with encouragement and knowledge. Checking out the dots just now shows no bleeding and some fadding in color so I will continue tomorrow with a little more care with the vaccum pressure.

Thank you and Merry Christmas,

Bassman
Title: Re: Bassman
Post by: ComeBacKid on December 24, 2008, 01:01:53 AM
I can attest as well to old mans good advice (hes got the most experience with ved's on this forum).  I did the 26 week protocol and I to got red dots in the beginning, they will go away in time, your body will get used to the pumping.  Right now it is not, but you need to take it slow, the biggest key to avoiding the red dots is not to pump it up quickly from flaccid to erection, take it slow, its easy to want to pump like your pumping a basketball, dont do this!  In the beginning I just toyed around with the pump, and got familiar, after awhile I created my own protocol holding each pump for 30 seconds.  It should be noted that pentox is a blood thinner, if you are on this there is an increased chance that you will see red dots when you pump.  Good luck to you!

Comebackid
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bassman on December 24, 2008, 11:43:07 AM
Thank you !

Comebackid
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tired on December 28, 2008, 05:08:47 PM
I just recieved my 3pc vitality ved from fitzz, but I cant seem to slide all 3 cylinders into each other with the sealing ring in place. Is there some instructions somewhere, I cant believe it should be that hard. also what is the cone shaped piece for? thanks for any replies as i am anctious to get started with the 26 week protical. thanks again
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hawk on December 28, 2008, 06:51:08 PM
Tired,

:) OK, My first admission is that I am totally ignorant about this specific VED but many VEDs come with a cone shaped piece to facilitate stretching and mounting a retaining ring onto the VED barrel which is laster transferred from the barrel to the penis.  This is of course ONLY for those that cannot maintain an erection without a retailer ring and has nothing to do with VED treatment for Peyronies Disease.

Hopefully someone will come along in a few hours that knows more and add to or correct any misinformation in this post.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on December 28, 2008, 10:45:36 PM
tired:

OK, you have received your Vitality three cylinder VED and need some help. First, the sizing or retainer rings must be removed from the large cylinder before you can assemble the others inside each other. Assemble it like this: Mount the large cylinder onto the pump assy. first, then slide the medium sized cylinder into it and lastly slide the small cylinder inside the medium one. After you have gotten all three mounted, make sure that they slide all the way in before replacing the sizing rings. Once you had done this, the unit is then ready for use.

A word or two about using the VED therapy - 1. use plenty of lubricant on your penis and well up inside the cylinder or cylinders to provide a very slippery surface so that the penis slides up and down inside easily. 2. DO NOT OVERPUMP THE VACUUM AT ANY TIME DURING THE EXERCISE CYCLES. 3. Practice assembling and using the exercises very gently for the first few days before embarking on the 26 week protocol. Also, you should shave off enough of your pubic hair around the base of the shaft to preclude the hair from being drawn up into the cylinder while pumping. Note: the lubricant that came with the package will not last very long, so I suggest that you purchase a generic brand like that which is available from WalMart under the Equate Personal Lubricant label as the cost is about $2.00 per container.  It is much cheaper than ordering more of the brand name stuff.

The reason that instructions did not come with the package is that it is an over the counter model which is basically the same unit as the Somaerect but it much more economical to purchase. Therefore, the "frills" do not come with the package since that reduces the cost, etc. It is a very good durable medical quality unit though. It is about one half the cost or less than the Somaerect prescription model VED.

Will be glad to help you in any way to get established in the VED therapy. You should follow the 26 week procotol for the three cylinder VED that is published in the Child Boards thread on the home page of the forum. Go to the Home Page link, open it and you will see the Child Boards link just below the link to the main forum page. The protocol you should follow is shown as the one for the three cylinder model VEDs. The other protocol is for those guys who made their own one cylinder separate units but have three sizes, etc. Once you have started the 26 week protocol be sure that you stay on course with it and do the exercises at least once a day per the schedule. If you have any question about the protocol let us know.

Let me know if I can help further.

Old Man

PS: The cone shaped device is used for sliding the retainer rings (not the sizing rings) that are used for holding up erections if one has ED and needs them. If you do not have an ED problems, you will not need them. If you do have ED and need the rings and use the cone device, use plenty lubricant on the cone and the rings to prevent damage to them. CAUTION: DO NOT USING THE ED RETAINER RINGS AT ANY TIME WHEN USING THE VED FOR Peyronies Disease THERAPY.
Title: Direct link to the Child Boards VED post with protcol
Post by: Angus on December 29, 2008, 01:01:43 AM

   
      Here is a direct link to the Child Boards post with the 26 week protocol.

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,439.0.html

      I will echo Old Mans words and add this: Expect good things to happen from VED therapy, and also expect to make a committment of time and regular, scheduled use to the therapy. I have followed the stories of VED users who post here for years, and it is clear that positive results stories are accompanied by the users committment to daily use of the VED and following the guidelines for its use. You cannot expect results if you use the VED once every week or two; the key to any physical therapy program is regularity. And the VED used for Peyronies relief is a form of physical therapy. Stick to the guidelines; don't pump up too much and too hard... reasonable vacuum used regularly is the best. And if you get frustrated with a leaky seal, pinching, working the pump, the lubricant or any number of things, post your questions here for answers. Some of us (including me) have made the VED blunders new users encounter and we can usually explain what's going on and to help reduce your anxiety.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tired on December 29, 2008, 09:46:23 AM
thanks for the responce. I'll see if I can make it work tonight. Again thanks
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: ggg953 on January 03, 2009, 03:14:10 PM
Has anyone seen this on htttp://www.peyroniesassociation.org/


Q: There has been considerable discussion on various forums about the three cylinder vacuum erection device study being done in Birmingham, Alabama by the Birmingham Urology group. What is your best considered opinion about vacuum therapy, especially using the three cylinder VED, for Peyronies Disease symptoms? Also, what is your opinion of the hand manipulated jelqing or milking action being suggested for penile enhancement and/or enlargement?

Dr Levine Answers: The vacuum therapy has been suggested for several years to be a potential treatment for Peyronie's disease to stretch the scar tissue and thereby result in straightening. Unfortunately, there are only anecdotal, unpublished reports on this approach. Currently there is a study in Chicago comparing the results of verapamil alone to verapamil plus vacuum therapy, using the three piece vacuum system. The results of this study are not yet available, but in my opinion, it does seem to make sense to combine medical therapy with the hope that the drug may affect fibroblast behavior, which is responsible for the scarring, as well as applying mechanical forces to stretch the tissue and to encourage further remodeling and straightening of the penis. The key is that the device needs to be applied daily for no longer than 30 minutes per treatment, but these treatments can be done 2-3 times per day if the time is available to do so. So far there have been very few reports in the medical literature that a vacuum device would cause Peyronie's disease, but again it is unlikely that the device so much causes it as it does result in an erection which can then be injured activating Peyronie's disease in the susceptible individual. Currently I am using combination therapy of verapamil injection with external vacuum therapy using the three cylinder VED device.

What do you guys think?
Best,
G
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: ggg953 on January 03, 2009, 03:17:18 PM
Sorry guys, this was what I was actually intending to post, my bad :/ this is Dr. Levine's take on the whole thing:

What is the proper procedure when using the 3-cylinder vacuum therapy device?

The 3-cylinder (SOMA) vacuum device has been recommended as a non-surgical treatment for Peyronie's disease.  My personal approach has been to start with the largest cylinder so as to accommodate the curvature when it first presents.  As the curvature and deformity responds to the pressures created by the vacuum tube, one should progressively go to the middle and then the smallest of the caliber cylinders.  I typically recommend that this progression occur after at least one month of use of each cylinder, which should be applied for 20-30 minutes at least once, but possibly better 2-3 times per day.   There is no need to apply the constriction band.  I recommend that the pressure be maintained throughout the 20-30 minute treatment period rather than using a repetitive inflate/deflate process.  It seems to me the effects of traction are best transmitted with prolonged application rather than with intermittent application.  So far there are no published reports showing benefit with traction therapy, but hopefully a formal trial will be conducted in the near future which will provide better insight as to whether vacuum therapy really works to correct Peyronies Disease deformity.
Title: Re: ggg953 - pasting material from other websites
Post by: Hawk on January 03, 2009, 04:45:32 PM
ggg,

Welcome to the forum.  I want to caution you about cutting and pasting material from other websites.  When I do that I get permission or at least have good reason to believe that there is no objection by the owner of the data.

pasting a sentence or describing the information in your own words is not a problem.

The organization you pasted from (APDA) has specifically lodged very strong complaint in the past when another website (not ours) published no more than the publicly available contact information of Urologists that the APDA felt should appear only on their website.  It may or may not have been a direct cut and paste from the APDA website.  It was however readily available info.  Hopefully you see the potential issue if someone wants to make an issue.

Thanks

Hawk

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: ggg953 on January 04, 2009, 02:06:41 AM
Understood Hawk and thanks for all your hard work here, wont happen again. That said, and the info already up, lemme know if you have any advice on this. I've been talking to Old Man about some things and he's got some great advice however, i just wanted to be a bit more "involved" with the rest of you guys. I have a strange case and am diligently working to correct it.

Best,
G
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 04, 2009, 08:38:08 AM
G:

Yes, as Hawk says all along, any information that would be of interest should be kept on the main forum so that all can see. However, personal information that applies only to one's self can be kept private through PMs.

After you have done the protocol for several weeks, post your results positive or negative. We need to stay abreast of what is best in Peyronies Disease therapy.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices The Bathmate
Post by: mikesb on January 04, 2009, 12:49:08 PM
Anyone here actually tried or heard anything positive or negative about the Bathmate hydrotherapy vacuum system?

http://www.bathmateusa.com/

and of course their claim "may help with Peyronie's Disease"
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 04, 2009, 01:40:14 PM
mikesb:

I visited the web site for the Bathmate vacuum device and looked at the video and read the literature that explains the features of the device. It probably would work for getting erections if one only has a problem with getting an erection and not having a problem holding one. There appears to be no retainer ring or rings to hold up an erection if one is needed, etc. Also, the quality appears to be questionable, but without actually seeing the device in person, I reserve my opinion on that feature.

As far as using the device for Peyronies Disease therapy, it should work if one uses the required caution in using any VED. However, it only has the one cylinder and therefore would not provide the benefit of the three cylinder model VEDs.

My opinion is that it would not of a very good medical quality device for Peyronies Disease therapy.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: didi20031 on January 05, 2009, 04:00:45 AM
hm... I ordered the three cylinder VED from Fitzz (as recommended by Old Man) a few days ago. Today I have received the package, but I found the one cylinder model in it...  :( I hope Fitzz will take it back without making problems. I have paid $103.66 for shipment (I live in Europe) and I don't want to pay that again for sending back the one cylinder model and receiving the correct one... ???
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 05, 2009, 09:13:04 PM
didi20031:

WOW! Something went wrong in the translation. Are your sure that you ordered the right stock number? Recheck your order and make sure that you used the right one.

I have no idea if you could get the other cylinders by themselves or not. Iceman had the same problem way back when. He might give us some insight as to how he resolved his problem.

In the meantime, try to get in touch with the company and talk with them is person about what to do.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: didi20031 on January 06, 2009, 05:03:18 AM
Old Man
I definitely ordered the three cylinder model and they also billed my credit card with the "correct" price: so I ordered and paid the three cylinder model and I received the one cylinder model...

I already wrote a message to the company (using the contact form on their website), but no answer yet...
Title: Re: didi20031 - Fitzz order mistake
Post by: Hawk on January 06, 2009, 11:20:27 AM
didi,


If you ordered the correct unit and they billed you for the correct unit, then it is their error to fully correct.  The party responsible for the error is responsible to bear the total cost of that mistake.  It is a pretty well accepted principle of life.

I have reason to think that Fitzz is a reputable company that will do the right thing.  If they do not, we want to hear about it here.  Conveying information about companies (both positive and negative) is one of the benefits we provide to the Peyronies Disease community.

Keep us informed

Hawk

PS: Feel free to let them know you have discussed the issue on the PDS forum and that we are interested in the outcome since they are often recommended as a supplier on this forum.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 06, 2009, 02:06:33 PM
Hawk:

I have discussed problems like this with Fitzz before and if you want me to, I will try to get in touch with my  contact there. What do you think?

Old Man

PS: Since didi is in another country, might save him some LD charges.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: didi20031 on January 07, 2009, 03:08:55 AM
Hawk and Old Man
Thank you both for your help!!! I am going to write them another email today. I have no response on my first message yet. However, I wrote the message using the customer support form on their website and maybe it does not work correctly.

I will keep you informed!
Thanks again!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on January 07, 2009, 03:20:10 PM
oldman - i got the battery operated pump which broke after 6 weeks of use and I had to buy another pump _ cost me a double the money _ read the order carefully!!

As an update I had been on holidays the past 3 weeks and have been travelling around North Africa and I have been diligent in the use of my VED daily at night....there has been absolutely no issues with ciustoms or any embarrasing moments - its been real easy:)....I also can report that I am still pain free and feel that I am hopefully over that painful period which was crippling me....

I think that the best thing for me was the VED and Trental and the occassional use of a strong anti inflammatory Mobic ( its a miracle drug!!)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Toby on January 10, 2009, 03:19:23 PM
Hi guys: Its been a while since I posted. I am in my 28th week of ved use with no improvement. I have not used the ved for the past 3 days due to pain in the right testicle. I developed varicose veins on the right testicle over the course of the past six months. My uro said it is probably from the increased pressure in the area. I had varicose veins before and had embolization coils placed in my abdomen that greatly the size of the veins, but they have returned. Over the past couple of weeks I have noticed a lot of aching in these veins after use of the ved. My uro also said the pain in my balls is probably coming from my back. I have back problems and have felt pain going from my back into my balls for a long time. Even before I developed peyronies. So when I use the ved it just seems to aggravate the symptoms. I think I will rest a few days before trying again with greatly reduced pressure. I will stay in touch. Good luck all.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on January 10, 2009, 08:07:00 PM
Toby - good idea to take a break. Have you considered the possibility that it is not the vein, but the spermatic cord that is the cause of pain? That pain should radiate up into the inguinal crease (lateral side of the anterior belly, low down). By using a smaller diameter so that the scrotum and contents (vein and cord) are not sucked up into it, you should be able to avoid this problem.

To do this, I tend to pump and release at first until I am gettign fairly full. This allows the more engorged penis to fill up the tube, and leaves less room for the scrotum to get sucked up into it. Also, as I pump, I keep a gentle traction on my scrotum to keep it from riding up into the cylinder. When I am very full at higher vacuum pressure, then I can let go with my protecting hand and leave it alone.

Finally, standing up to pump helps (using gravity) to keep the scrotum laying lower and lessens the carrying up into the cylinder of the scrotum. Also, remembering to use a smaller tube for "maintenance" helps. When I do a larger diameter tube, I use a silicone sleeve, and that allows me to use the larger diameter (for whatever benefits that may give me) without the above mentioned problems.

Tim

http://penispumpwarehouse.com/universal-silicone-penis-pump-donut-SE104500.php

Link is not an endorsement
Title: Re: Toby
Post by: ComeBacKid on January 10, 2009, 08:51:00 PM
Toby,

As having done the complete protocol on the VED I can give you some advice.  When you go to pump, you need to put lube on the end of the cylinder going against your body to get a good seal.  You should also put lube on your body as well and it is a good idea to shave your pubes in that area, as the hair can give you an incomplete seal.  You need to press the pump tightly against your body.  Some people don't do this and when using the bigger cylinders your balls can get sucked up into the cylinder a bit where they attache to your body.  I noticed when I pumped if I did a long pump and left the cylinder up against my body my balls seemed to ache or hurt, maybe because the blood vessels going down the skin to your balls are being pressed against your body by the cylinder.  This could be aggravating an already pre existing condition for you.  I'm not sure, but just using common sense you could come to this conclusion.  Have you tried pentox, you don't have to do the VED with pentox usage.

Comebackid
Title: Toby
Post by: Angus on January 10, 2009, 10:56:32 PM
Yes, good idea to take a break and let things settle down. Using the gradual pump up method described by Tim works and works well. Using the smallest opening seal/ring that comes with your VED helps. Start with a few gentle pumps and wait for the penis to adjust; I have found that engorgement characteristics can change from day to day... slower some days more than others. Some days it may take more time to let the penis start filling out before pumping some more. If pain returns, stop and get checked out more thoroughly. When you get back to the VED, use only enough vacuum to get a "medium" erection the first few times to test the waters; don't rush things. I used the VED for well over a year before I saw results.
Title: Start up question
Post by: double eagle on January 12, 2009, 09:30:33 AM
I just tried out mine yesterday. I wanted to see what the fit and feel would be. So far, so good, I will be starting my regimen soon, but before I start, I wanted to ask a question.

The "tension" rings are to be used to maintain erection, but if I read right, it is for those that may have problem remaining erect. I do not have that condition as I can stay erect no problem. Do I still need these tension rings?

Title: Re: Start up question
Post by: Hawk on January 12, 2009, 12:06:12 PM
Quote from: double eagle on January 12, 2009, 09:30:33 AM
The "tension" rings are to be used to maintain erection, but if I read right, it is for those that may have problem remaining erect. I do not have that condition as I can stay erect no problem. Do I still need these tension rings?


NO!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 12, 2009, 05:29:51 PM
double eagle:

Adding to Hawk's post below:  NO,NO NEVER WHEN USING THE VED FOR Peyronies Disease THERAPY.

THEY ARE TO BE USED ONLY IF THEY ARE REQUIRED TO HOLD UP AN ERECTION FOR SEXUAL RELATIONS.

So, you are hereby warned not to use them with the VED therapy for Peyronies Disease!

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: double eagle on January 12, 2009, 10:41:35 PM
Good to know, thanks!   :o

DE
Title: Re: Toby
Post by: Ptolemy on January 13, 2009, 10:14:02 AM
Quote from: ComeBacKid on January 10, 2009, 08:51:00 PM

Have you tried pentox, you don't have to do the VED with pentox usage.

Comebackid

Since when does Pentox circumvent the VED? I have never heard this argument before.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Toby on January 13, 2009, 06:50:20 PM
Angus,Comeback Kid, Tim: Thank you guys so much for your reply and advise. I will try again in a couple of days, taking it much slower. I was at my chiropracter today for my back, and advised him about what was going on and he pretty much said what my uro did. There are apparently a lot of nerves running from the lumbar spine into the scrotum area. When my back hurts my balls hurt. When my balls hurt my back hurts. Oh well suck it up. When I did not see results after 26 weeks I asked my uro if I could change protocol up a little and he said I could . I was holding erections for 2 minutes and releasing for 30 seconds. and doing 5 cycles of this. I thought maybe holding erections longer might help breakup scar tissue. any thoughts on this. Could I not be getting results because the protocol does not hold erections long enough?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 13, 2009, 07:40:20 PM
Toby:

The prescribed routine of the 26 week protocol is posted on the Child Boards Section of the main forum. It should be followed to the letter if at all possible. Experience by many of us on the forum indicate that holding the vacuum pressure longer than 15 or so seconds with each pumping cycle can and will lead to problems.

The protocol you should be following is the one for the three cylinder VEDs. Go to the home page of the main forum and click on the Child Boards link which is just under the link to the posts on the forum. The protocol is listed there and has notes to describe what is to be followed in using the VED, etc.

Hope this will help. Holding the pressure too long exerts too much pressue on the tissue which leads to further trauma in most cases.

Old Man
Title: Toby
Post by: Angus on January 13, 2009, 08:06:06 PM
Toby, stop holding the vacuum so long. You haven't seen results because you haven't used the protocol long enough; not because of the time you are instructed to hold the vacuum or too little "time in tube". With this system and protocol, less is more. Don't try to rush things with more vacuum or longer induced erections. You're body will re-mold itself in its own good time. It may take a year or more like in my case. Consistency of use is the key to VED use and Peyronies relief. No one can guarantee you will see results with the VED but give it a fair shake by following the protocol for up to a year or more, daily (26 week protocol x 2). Don't think "break up" scar tissue; think re-molding.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LoveMyHusband on January 14, 2009, 12:21:32 PM
Does everyone on here advise using Pentox with the VED, or has some of you also gotten Good results by just using the VED alone--without Pentox?   I am worried about Pentox -using long term for my husband.    Thinking about stopping it,  as my husband does not have a progressive situation, has been stable for  over 4 years now, with no change or problems.  But if the VED is useless without this drug, I guess we shall continue on.   I do not want to exasperate other problems in him if he has a stable condition here or worry what will happen when he stops the Pentox drug.  Much discussion on this on Supplements board right now. 
  Also Augusta Rep said the suction is made by the K-Y jelly, you should not have to hold tightly against your body to pump.   My husband says he must hold tight or he can not get it to work correctly, no matter how much K-Y is on there.  Rep said this could damage nerves, so concerned about this also.   Also, our 3 cylinder Vitality pump makes funny clicking noises sometimes, only had the thing a week, and it is not consistent with it's Sound. Not sure if it has a problem or not.  Anyone else?
Title: Re LovingMy Husband
Post by: Mick on January 14, 2009, 12:46:44 PM
I have used the VED, including the 26 week 3 tube routine, successfully, and I have never used pentox or any other drug talked about on the forum.  The VED stands by itself and is not affected by any drug to my knowledge.  My experience was duly reported, and some of it is on the Childs Boards.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 14, 2009, 03:05:31 PM
LMH:

The Augusta rep is partially right about the suction being done by the KY gel or lubricant as we prefer to call it. However, if the shaft is too small to fill out the smaller sizing insert, the VED cylinder mouth must be held fairly tight against one's body to start the process of filling out the shaft enough to provide the necessary seal. Also, we have found that shaving off the pubic hair around the base of ones penis provides a better sealing surface. If this is done, shaving must be done on a regular basis to keep this area clean of the hair, etc.

The three cylinder model VEDs usually have a small sizing insert that will fit just about 90% of men using them. As I said above, most men do need to place the cylinder against their body to start the proper seal. Enough lube must be used especially when using the small cylinder schedule to provide a good slippery surface up into the cylinder.

It takes a little practice with this procedure to get familiar with the routine. This is a case where less pressure is more and more practice does make perfect. So, help him practice with the VED and above all, do not use more pressure than is comfortable without any sign of pain, etc.

Let us know if there is any other way we can help you guys.

Regards, Old Man
Title: LoveMyHusband/ Pentox/ VED
Post by: Angus on January 14, 2009, 11:45:08 PM

   For the record I had good VED results without taking Pentox. Pentox is getting good write-ups from men on this board, but there is also documentation here that VED and protocol use can produce curve reductions without it. Men who have to restrict their use of Pentox and similar drugs should  move forward with VED therapy if that is the path they choose.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LoveMyHusband on January 15, 2009, 12:05:09 AM
Thank you , it always helps to hear that the pentox may not be totally necessary, Wonderful to hear others have had Good results--without its use.    I  just can't seem to shake this feeling that his body will become dependant and used to this drug -that may be helping with morning erections (although he had them before sometimes but not every day)-nor can I say he does now, but it seems better,  then when he stops this drug, that somehow things will never be as they were.    Yes, I worry and analyze way too much.  Then I asked a Urologist online, this was his answer about the Pentox & using the VED : Pentox is not a drug you become dependent on.  It has an effect.  If you want the effect, take the drug.  If you don't, then stop it.  I usually recommend it at the full 3 a day dose for men with more than 60 degree curvatures.

Any and every drug has potential side effects and complications, but pentox is a very, very safe drug.

I don't like the VED for curvature.  I used to recommend it because nothing else was available.  Now I recommend something called "Fastsize".  It was originally designed as an extender, but it puts a variable amount of tension on the penis for a much longer time than the VED.  More importantly, it has actually been studied and early reports show improvements.  You can order a "FastSize" from Amazon.com.  It should be worn for 2-8 hours a day for 12 weeks (that was how it was used in the study).  Almost everyone saw some decrease in curvature after using the Fastsize.  You can't use the VED that much and there is inadequate scientific proof that it works.

You can also try Arginine and Carnitine, 400 Vitamin E and even Cialis/levitra/viagra.

Just too much advice out there.   It seems those on this forum is MORE for the VED though.  I do not understand this Fat size thing, wearing it for HOURS a day?   

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Attica! on January 15, 2009, 09:52:36 AM
LMH,
   As far as the FastSize, scroll down to the "traction" topic, then scroll down to post #478. I give a fairly detailed account of my experience with the device. After you read it, if you have any further questions, do not hesitate to ask.
Title: Re: VED's - For me, 2 times a day appears to be better than once
Post by: Ptolemy on January 15, 2009, 02:13:33 PM
This post could go in either the Traction or VED section but since I've discontinued Traction I'll post it here.

I have been using the VED since January 29, 2007, almost two years now. I added Traction for two periods, approximately 4 hours a day for 4 months in January 2008 and 3 months later for 6 to 8 hours a day for 2 months. My experience is similar to Attica's reply 478 in terms of discomfort. I did gain minor length and significant girth but where Attica began Traction prior to Peyronies shrinkage, I began Traction following Peyronies shrinkage. It did eliminate some of the curve and I retained that benefit. I discontinued Traction because of the inconvenience and because the knob of my penis was turning purple where the noose fits. I tried the strap but I could never get it to stay on unless the grip was unbearable. What Traction did give me was amazing night time erections. Like Hawk I think longer (for me 8 to 16 hours a day) with mild stretching rather than extreme or maximum stretching would be better.

When I discontinued Traction (I was still using the VED regularly) I lost any length I had gained and some but not all of the girth. Again, the girth gain was along the shaft where there is no Peyronies. Unfortunately after I discontinued Traction, the Turtle effect returned and I hate pulling down my pants and have to dig the knob of my penis out of the shell to urinate.

I noticed for me that the Turtle effect occurred 8 to 12 hours or later after the VED usage i.e. after using the VED I was fine for 8 to 12 hours. So I decided to change from once a day of 20 minute VED usage to two 10 minutes a session VED usage 12 hours apart. That has cleared my Turtle effect and given me a much healthier looking penis. I am also taking Trental twice daily plus aspirin so I am very cautious on the extent of the vacuum. This approach has also given me back the night time erections as well.

I'm reluctant to post this because we are all different and what works for me might be a disaster for someone else. I have always looked at the VED from a blood circulation perspective rather than a stretching perspective. Ten or 20 minutes a day doesn't seem like enough stretching but getting blood as thoroughly as possible in a vacuum has always seemed like a positive thing to do, Peyronies or not.

BTW, I follow the 3 different sized tubes changed weekly, 26 week protocol.

Title: Thanks OLD MAN!!!
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on January 16, 2009, 06:39:35 PM
Old Man,

i never did thank your for Reply #1872. it was very helpful and encouraging and gave me confidence and information to start the 29 week protocol with.
i'm on my 3rd week and already feeling really positive bout it! and you're right about this VED, it's a really good one. solid and doesn't hurt like the other one i had.

so thanks again!

getting there
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 16, 2009, 07:10:30 PM
getting_there:

You are most welcome, that is what we do on this forum. We do our best to help all possible with any one needing it.

Glad that you are having some successful results using the VED. You mentioned the 29 week protocol, I assume you mean the 26 week protocol, huh?

Keep up the good work and you should see more results soon

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tired on January 22, 2009, 02:15:03 PM
I am starting my first sesion with cylinder b today and everything seems to be going ok, but in reading the forum some people talk about 10 to 30 minute total sessions and the protocol only says to do 10 sessions at 10 seconds each. I wait about 5 seconds between vac. Do I need to be holding vac. longer, or waiting longer between sessions.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/method of cycles
Post by: Old Man on January 22, 2009, 03:49:05 PM
tired:

The protocol is just a basic guideline as to how the schedule should be followed. You can alter the number of cycles, the time of holding the vacuum pressure, the total length of each exercise session, the amount of wait time between cycles and just about anything you need to do making the exercise session comfortable for you.

Be sure that you do not overpump the vacuum pressure at any time. The B cylinder exercise cycles will be different slightly in that you may or may not fill out the entire cylinder. However, it should allow the shaft to go further out into the cylinder while pumping up the pressure. Use plenty of lube in any case to provide the necessary slippery surfact so friction will not occur. Practice with varying times of each phase of the cycle and develop your own pace for it.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask any and all questions you might have. We are here to help.

Regards, Old Man

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tired on January 22, 2009, 04:02:27 PM
Thanks for the quick reply. Does doing more sessions or longer hold time work better, or does it matter more that I stay consistant. I read on some post that it might cause more problems holding vac pressure for more than the 10 to 15 seconds.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Holding time for VED cycles
Post by: Old Man on January 22, 2009, 04:15:55 PM
tired:

It really does not matter how long you hold the time after pumping up as long as you do not feel any added pressure or uncomfortable feeling. However, I would suggest that you hold it no longer than 15 seconds. I would add more pumping cycles per session with,  say a 5 or 10 second holding time after pump up rather holding longer on each pump up.

My experience has found that more cycles with the 5 or 10 second holding time has proven to be the best overall time limits. Whatever you do, don't overpump the pressure at any time or do more sessions that 2 per day at the most. Your penis needs to "reform" itself after exercise session. Two per day spaced a few hours apart would work best IMHO.

Old Man

PS: Read some of the earlier posts about the number of sessions per day.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tired on January 22, 2009, 04:30:58 PM
Should I start over with the a cylinder and spend 15 minutes per day, as I only did 10 cycles for 10 to 15 seconds each once per day with the a cylinder?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on January 22, 2009, 05:09:36 PM
tired
Follow Old Mans pump and hold cycle. When I first got my VED I would pump as much as I could stand and hold for 10 minuter or more. Within a few weeks I had a bruise on my penis that took several weeks to heal.
After I found this board and Old Man I followed his exercise and in a just over a year I had gained back about 3/4 inch of lost length.  :)
More is not better.
Good Luck it works.
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 22, 2009, 08:28:46 PM
tired:

No, you should not start over with the first week schedule with the A cylinder. Just pick up with the schedule for the B cylinder and so on down the weekly list of the protocol.

Modify your time schedule, holding time and any other aspect of your session to suit your individual needs, but stay with the guidelines I posted in #1926 below.

Keep up sessions on a daily basis and you should be all right. If you have further questions, please feel free to ask.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: gigidoc on January 24, 2009, 10:52:53 AM
I am wondering what is the benefit of a 3 cylinder VED vs 1 cylinder. I can't find any postings for comparison studies or any personal experience with the two types.
Thanks for any input.
Title: gigidoc/VED's/single vs multi
Post by: Angus on January 24, 2009, 11:23:20 AM
Welcome, gigidoc. The benefit of the three tube VED concept is the longitudinal stretching made possible by the smallest tube. Start by reading the read-only VED thread in the Newly Diagnosed-Child boards:

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,439.0.html

This read-only Highlights post will give you an overview of past posts about both styles of VED's. Then I would proceed to read this VED thread in the active forum... it will take a while, but you will get a good idea of where the thought of VED therapy is at on this board. The thread you are reading now is loaded with posts by men who have used both styles.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: kinoast on January 27, 2009, 01:32:54 AM
Hey folks, I've got a question about the use of the three cylinder VED...

I bought the Fitzz three cylinder unit some months ago and put off starting the program until now.  I'm four days in and am not 100% sure I'm getting the correct results from pumping.  Am I supposed to be getting a full erection each pumping/holding cycle?  I can only pump a few times (4-5) before the base really starts digging into my skin and the whole thing becomes uncomfortable.  As counciled on this board by Old Man and others, I'm careful about not overpumping, but that said, I'm getting nothing near a full erection--more like half of one if that.

I did fashion a smaller "A" cylinder because (unfortunately) I'm of a smaller size and the sides of my unit weren't touching the sides of the provided "A" cylinder, but I'm worried that I'm not getting enough longitudinal stretching if I'm supposed to be having an erection (via pressure) each cycle.

Any thoughts or input?  Thanks all.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 27, 2009, 10:30:05 AM
kinoast:

Well now, you do have a minor problem if you are not filling out the A cylinder. Most have problems with being too large and have trouble getting the penis to slide into the cylinder well.

You say that you fashioned a smaller A cylinder. This may or may not be a good idea based on what the cylinder you made is shaped like. The three cylinder model cylinders are tapered from large to small so that the penis is being confined into a smaller diameter as it is stretched out into the cylinder. If your size is not extremely small, I strongly suggest that you continue to use the regular A cylinder assembled inside the B and C as usual. You need to practice using the VED assembled in this method. Forget about the prescribed protocol and practice until you have mastered using the A cylinder without difficulty.

You need to have both of the sizing inserts in place while using the A cylinder. This prevents the problem of causing pain or irritation by the mouth of the cylinder. Another thing you should do is make sure that the mouth of the cylinders is placed rather firm against your body when you start pumping. This prevents the scrotum from being pulled into the cylinder. Also, you should get as much of the shaft into the cylinder as possible by applying vacuum to let it pull your shaft into the cylinder.

Practice with the above suggestions until you are able to get all of your shaft into the cylinder and able to start getting enough erection to fill out the cylinder. It may take a while to get the hang of how this works.

Let me know if you have any further questions about using the VED after you have worked with it a while longer.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: default87 on January 27, 2009, 04:12:09 PM
Hello all.   I posted in another section about severe shrinkage/fibrosis as a result of Propecia.  After reading the positive reviews of VEDs here, I decided it was my best bet for recovering some of my size back, particularly girth.

Problem is, the VEDs mentioned here cost between $400-$500, and as a college student I just can't swing that right now.  I don't have ED so I don't see any help from insurance.

I have seen some under $200 here: http://www.ghccusa.com/html/impdept.html

Would these work?

Also, I've heard that results can take as little as a month to a year.  How long is it typically before ANY results are noticed?

thanks again
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 27, 2009, 04:58:34 PM
default87:

Yes, some VEDs mentioned on this forum do cost very much. However, a lot of us have had great success with the Vitality OTC three cylinder model VED from this site: www.fitzz.com

It is a very good durable medial quality unit and does not cost much over$200.00. If you decide to order this unit from the Fitzz company and mention the promo word TEAM a discount will be allowed.

Look up the health products link and select men's health products and look for the manual model of the Vitality OTC three cylinder VED.

If you need any help with obtaining a VED, feel free to ask any and all questions. We are here to help each other.

Old Man

PS: We have found that the less quality VEDs used by some on the forum have not worked so well in the long run. It is best to get the medical quality units.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: kinoast on January 28, 2009, 02:44:42 AM
Old Man:

Thanks for rubbing in the size issue.  ; )  To all the guys out there who have a problem fitting in the "A" cylinder, I can only say, damn, I'd love to have your problem.

Seriously, thanks for the advice, Old Man.  I actually fashioned a plastic tapered cylinder out of a vacuum extension purchased at Home Depot.  It fits within the assembled double rubber rings and seems to shave a tiny bit off the diameter of what would be the "A" cylinder.

My question to you is (and maybe it's self-evident from your and others successes on this board using the schedule) is gentle pumping enough to get a decent erection?  Perhaps you are right and I'm just not getting it down yet or am having a bit of air leakage that is interfering.

I'll take your advice and go back to the supplied "A" cylinder if you think it'll help.  I've just been worried about not getting any benefit from equipment that is built presuming that all men are created equal.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: double eagle on January 28, 2009, 09:32:47 AM
Quote from: kinoast on January 28, 2009, 02:44:42 AM

My question to you is (and maybe it's self-evident from your and others successes on this board using the schedule) is gentle pumping enough to get a decent erection?  Perhaps you are right and I'm just not getting it down yet or am having a bit of air leakage that is interfering.

I am 3 weeks into it and I have learned that I must try to get a little bit erect before entering the VED cylinder. The gentle pumping works fantastic if I am semi-rigid, as the base fills the void of the cylinder and creates a nice seal. If I am completely soft,  I end up with scrotum interference. Once that has started, I lose the whole session.


Title: Getting a seal
Post by: Angus on January 28, 2009, 10:25:57 AM

   I've found that I can't rush an erection with the VED. A natural erection takes a few minutes to develop with mental stimulation and a VED session is (usually, for me) devoid of mental stimulation. Getting a VED erection in a cold bathroom with all the lights on sometimes just doesn't happen right away. Don't scrimp on the lube... slick up everything including the seal end of the tube. Press the tube gently against your body skin for a seal and make sure the tube is level with the floor or pointed downward a few degrees... this will help keep the scrotum out of the picture. Apply 2 or 3 pumps or just enough to get a seal, then give your body a few minutes to get used to the vacuum and for the blood vessels to slowly open up and allow blood in for the erection. I've found that some days a VED erection comes right away and other days I just have to wait for the erection to happen. Some days I'll have to repeat this sequence 3 or 4 times to get things warmed up and for blood to flow in. Getting a seal even with the smallest tube can be a challenge at times but just be patient with your body. For me, everything works better right after a hot shower but sometimes my timing doesn't allow that, and then I just have to be patient with my body's willingness to make a VED erection.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on January 28, 2009, 10:33:57 AM
Several things help get one going with the VED:

1) Standing up - let gravity help blood fill the penis, and help to keep the scrotum out. Heat from a shower, tub, or a warm room helps too.

2) Good lubrication. Several methods have been discussed here. I use soap because I do this in the tub. Others use a bottle brush to coat the inside with a thin layer of lubricant.

3) Keep the scrotum out. Holding it out with a few fingers while starting helps; when one is more pumped up or erect, it is less of a problem.

4) Pump and release. Initially, pumping a flaccid penis will usually not get you to full length, and will pull the scrotum in. But if you use what seal you have to "milk" more blood into the penis by tugging the VED away from you, then release and repump, blood will start to stay in there and allow for a better erection. Each time I do this, I have to tug the scrotum back out, as it will initially ride up.

5) Use a down-sizing gasket to get a better seal with larger VED cylinders (B and C). This will allow a better seal at the base, and prevent the scrotum from going in which is a greater problem in the larger cylinders. See the attached figure to see what I mean.

6) Get pumped up with a smaller cylinder first and then use a larger one. I find that if I pump up with a small cylinder and wait for about 5 minutes, then I can switch to the bigger cylinder(s) more easily. Already being pumped up means less hassle with scrotum and other problems described above.

Hope that helps!

Tim

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 28, 2009, 11:55:24 AM
kinoast:

You know that I was kidding about the size problem. There is nothing that takes the wind out one's sails faster than to be ridiculed about their genitalia. So, accept my apology if it did any damage to your psyche.

Now, you have been given some really advice about using the VED by Tim and Angus below. Try their suggestions and see what happens for you. A lot of us have found that shaving the pubic hair off around the base of our penises helps get a better seal when pumping. I have also found that adding a little lube around the sizing inserts and inside the mouth of the cylinder helps keep a better seal while doing the exercises. (Note: A lot of us use the Equate brand of personal lubricant from Walmart which costs around $2.00 per tube.)

I think that you will be able to use the small A cylinder once you get the hang of it. It does take a bit of practice to develop a procedure that works best for you. There is one size fits all procedure in the VED world, each guy has to work out the best method for himself.

Feel free to ask for help any time you need it, we are all here to help.
Title: Looking for good & informative Doctor for Peyronies in Kansas City
Post by: 1966SS on January 29, 2009, 12:38:35 AM


Hello All,

I am a new member to the site and have been quietly reading on the site until today.  I have peyronies and started out with a few doctors visits here in the Kansas City area. These visits needless to say left me slightly disappointed in the doctors knowledge regarding peyronies. I feel that I learned more about the disease from reading stuff on the internet and this website.

I have decided to look into purchasing a 3 tube VED device and start the 26 week therapy that is listed on this site. I have also considered the purchase of a stretching device that I have seen mentioned here. I think it was called fast_ _ _ _ something or other. I was wondering and hoping doing these two treatments to gether I might find some success. Anyway, I hope someone might know of a good doctor in KC/KS or MO area. Thanks and I appreciate anyones time and effort in replying to my first post on the website.

Cheers
Chevelle Guy
Title: Re: Looking for good & informative Doctor for Peyronies in Kansas City
Post by: Tim468 on January 29, 2009, 05:56:38 PM
That VED is called "FastSize", most notable for having actually being studied by Levine for treatment of Peyronie's Disease (it helped).

I am not aware of any docs in that region - hopefully someone can speak up.

Tim
Title: Re: Looking for good & informative Doctor for Peyronies in Kansas City
Post by: LWillisjr on January 29, 2009, 07:10:24 PM
Tim,
I had to re-read the post. I think 1966SS is looking for both a VED and a tractoin device recommendation.

1966SS,
Old Man is best for VED advice but I believe he regularly suggests the Vacuum Erection Device from Fitzz.com  As far as traction there are several that work on the same principle of attachment and traction. One that comes up often here is from Fastsize.com

As far as doctors in your area, I checked the peyroniesassociation.org website. Unfortunately there are none listed in your immediate area. I've not seen many poster's here talk about or refer any doctors in your area either. Sorry.
Title: Re: 1966ss
Post by: Hawk on January 29, 2009, 08:57:50 PM
1966ss, Welcome to the forum,

I am rushed at the moment so do not take my abrupt manner as being rude.  We are very happy you found us.

I prefer a wide strap "comfort strap" traction device to the "noose".  X4 brand attaches both ways.

Your post is in the off topic area and will be moved to the main forum since this is about Peyronies Disease and not "Off Topic".  Most members will not see your post in this area.

There are probably doctors near you that are decently informed about Peyronies Disease but I am not aware of any.  The closest renown doctor would be in Chicago.

Regards

Hawk
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tperry1010 on January 31, 2009, 01:37:13 AM
Gentlemen, 

I just joined the site, and I am really excited about the success stories with the "Vacuum Erection Devices." I've suffered thru this horriffic disease called Peyronies for 2-1/2 years, trying external Verapamil (very expensive and no results); and Verapamil injections with some results..maybe in my mind. Can someone recommend the best VED, cost NOT being an object. I've seen the Soma correct mentioned, but can't find a link to order.

Also , would anyone hazard a guess as to what % cure rate the VAD has...ie straigening enough to have enjuyable sex again.

Thanks,

Tom
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: hornman on January 31, 2009, 09:14:22 AM
I just let the moths out of my wallet and ordered the VED from Fritz after my wife's comments that I am much smaller than I used to be.  Hopefully I will gain back some size and reduce my hourglass deformity. I will keep you all posted about my progress (or lack of). I was diagnosed in April 2008.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on January 31, 2009, 10:16:38 AM
Hornman
I found the VED to be a lot of help. Even after over 12 years of peyronies and loosing 25% of my length I was able to gain back almost 3/4 of an inch.  :)
Do Not get in a hurry! It took me 3 months of using Old Mans exercise to start to show improvement and it took a year to get back all the gain I could.
My doctor at Vanderbilt said that I had gained all I could because of the pryronies scar on top of my penis. He said to keep using it until a couple of days before the implant surgery. He also told me that he believes in VED exercise for ED as well as peyronies.
Also follow the exercise and do not over pump. Before I found this forum I used the VED all wrong and caused a bruise that took a few weeks to heal (not fun).  :(
Do Not use constriction rings for exercise. If you have ED use them only for sex.
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 31, 2009, 05:49:17 PM
tperry1010:

Welcome to the land of Peyronies Disease victims! Sorry to hear that you have joined the club among all of us.

There are several VEDs of medical quality available. However, the choice of most of us now is the Vitality OTC three cylinder manual model available at real good price at this site:   www.fitzz.com
Visit this this site, click on Health Products, select Men's health link and look for the above VED. The cost is usually listed at $249.99 with free shipping and handling. Mention this promo code, TEAM, in your order and they usually give a discounted price.

A lot of the guys on the forum have had real good results from using this particular. It is actually an over the counter model of the earlier model VEDs from the Augusta Medical Systems who make the Somaerect and Soma Correct. The Vitality VED is much cheaper in price and is of a good durable medical quality.

So research the above site before deciding to purchase one. It does not require an RX from your doc.  Some insurance companies will pay a portion of the cost anyway if it is prescribed for erectile dysfunction though.

Feel free to ask any and all questions relative VED usage.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on February 01, 2009, 07:42:12 PM
i think the ved has helped me - 7 months usage now - - - at least its not getting worse
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: NG_F on February 02, 2009, 08:17:42 AM
I have used a VED in 2002-2003 for ED mostly from the use of propecia,which I started in 2000.

My first pump was the actual VED device from Mission pharmacal.This pump has no gauge. I pumped a few times with this,with what I feel was excessive pressure.

I bought a Vacutech pump with a gauge on it 2 months later.I used pressures which were normal,between 5-7 inHg.I would stay in the cylinder for 10-15 mins at a time for a maximum of 3 sets per session,1 session/week.

I started to notice a slight propensity for my penis to curve to the left while in the tube.This I have not noticed before using a VED.

I would occasionally get some fluid buildup in midshaft(donut) but never any bruising or discoloration.My erections were great for the first few months but then were difficult to achieve after this,so I stopped pumping.

I've been having poor erections for the last 3 years and have noticed that my penis is constantly curving to the left during semi and erect states after sex by about 10 degrees.

I believe I may have permanently damaged the small arterioles that stem from the 2 cavernosal arteries.Particularly the left one as well as the dorsal arterioles and the bulbo-urethral arterioles that supply engorgement to the glans.

The first few times I  pumped my shaft and glans expanded massively and I had great erections.My penis felt very heavy and full well after pumping.

My erections lately are insufficient for penetration and my flacid looks very small with barely enough blood volume and weight to preserve the tissue I have left.

My latest colour doppler ultrasound with 50 units of prostin showed poor response during test,fair response after test and good/turgid response close to discharge,which took 2 hours and double dose sudafed liquid to obtain detumescence. systolic/diastolic pressures are as follows for right and left arteries respectively...Flacid: 11/0,13/0 cm/sec  5mins:67/12 cm/sec, 75/18 with a resistive Index of 0.82 and 0.76  30 mins: 122/0, 164/0 cm/sec.

Usual peak systolic pressures are between 25-40 cm/sec.

Are my pressures highly elevated because my arterioles are damaged and there is no distribution to the sinusoids in the corpora cavernosa thus not delaying arterial velocities?As if my arteries were firing from base to glans with no distribution? Is this possible? Or is this anxiety with high adrenergic tone and the test should be repeated with phentolamine as in the tri-mix formulations to get an accurate picture?

I would greatly appreciate any and all information and advice as I'm severely depressed with my potential stupidity.

I see a decent urologist in the next month.My family doctor oredered this test.

My doppler from 2003- 1 year after pumping with 25 units of prostin revealed an excellent pharmacological response throughout the whole test.
Peak systolic velocities were:  5 minutes: 41 and 25 cm/sec  and 30 mins:42 and 74 cm/sec.Even here we see the higher than normal pressure in the left cavernosal artery after 30 mins?

I have had urinary problems for the last 4 years to the best of my recollection,which includes frequency and urgency with problems starting and dribbling while attempting to stop.Slight pain and discomfort. Urodynamic study was normal performed last week.
I'm thinking that my excessive pressures might have torn my tunica around the corpora bodies as well as around the urethra?

I have not pumped since 2004.

I have been off of propecia for 8 months now.Nasty drug!

I would really appreciate some educated assistance.Thanks very much in advance.
Title: Re: Looking for good & informative Doctor for Peyronies in Kansas City
Post by: 1966SS on February 02, 2009, 04:22:58 PM

A thanks for all here that replied. Thanks for the invite to the site and the information on the VED device and Fastsize traction type device. I am planning to use both devices with the 26 week therapy schedule listed on this site. I was also wondering if I should be trying the verapimel injections during this physical therapy regiment? Is anyone trying these three treatment combinations with any success? Currently I have been taking 800 iu's of vitamin E which I can say in minor in treatment therapy compared to many on this site. I had recieved an email regarding a drug named Pentox which I am unfamilular with at this point.

All I know at this point and time is this bump in the penis and road of life I could do without. As I am sure many others here feel the same. Again, I appreciate the advise and replies from all. Sorry for the confusion on the user name. Your right Old Man it is a 1966 SS Chevelle. My first car at the age of 16 was a 1966 SS Chevelle.  I am 51 and have a 66SS parked in the garage which I will always own unitl they pry it from my cold fingers. I will change my name to SSChevelle. Again, thanks for the welcome. I look forward to getting to know some new folks online and hopefully getting a tool alignment.

SSChevelle
Title: Re: Looking for good & informative Doctor for Peyronies in Kansas City
Post by: Old Man on February 02, 2009, 08:07:56 PM
SS1966:

You should take a good long look at the verapamil topic before embarking on a course of injections of the med. As far as I know, very few, if any, have posted good results with the injections.

Using the VED, traction and verapamil injections IMHO just won't work together. There is too much danger in causing more trauma if the VED is used along with the injections. A lot of guys have posted about the black and blue after effect of the needle site after the injection. The vacuum pressure can and will cause that injection site to be traumatized IMHO.

So get well informed about using all three methods of Peyronies Disease therapy before using them by reading all the related topics and posts.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on February 02, 2009, 09:50:48 PM
NG_F

I am not familiar with the data you present in terms of flow velocity etc, therefore do not feel I can be of help.

I am also not sure what pressure you used and if it may have led to damage to the penis - my bet would have been with the Propecia, not the VED as the cause of the problem.

The propensity for fibrosis with Propecia suggests that Pentox will help.

Tim
Title: Re: Looking for good & informative Doctor for Peyronies in Kansas City
Post by: LWillisjr on February 02, 2009, 10:07:40 PM
SS1966,

Dr. Levine has published a study where he prescribed the following together...  1. Traction, 2. Verapamil injections, 3. Pentox.  His study claims a 70% success rate. But there don't seem to be many of those success stories on this forum.

I agree with Old Man that I would be careful using Verapamil with the VED. I for sure WOULD NOT use the VED for several days after a Verapamil Injection due to the trauma of the injection. And this then upsets the 26 week protocol. I think you could use the VED and traction together without the injections.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: kinoast on February 05, 2009, 02:57:59 AM
double eagle, angus, Tim 468...

thanks for the advice on VED usage, especially with getting a good seal.  sorry for the delay in thanks, I've been away from the boards.

Old Man, no worries!  I was just trying to keep it light and kid with you a bit.  No damage to my psyche.  One has to have a sense of humor about yourself and it especially helps in these situations.  As my dad would always say (and I don't *think* he was talking about peyronie's): "If I couldn't laugh, I'd have to cry."

I appreciate your continued time and devotion to the board and its members.

Cheers all.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 05, 2009, 09:17:40 AM
kinoast:

No problem. We just need to make sure that all understand the proper way to use a VED and not cause further trauma. The fact that anyone has the mess is bad enough, huh?

Since I had it for so long, it has become rather serious business for me and I want to help everyone as much as possible. So take care and continue with your therapy. Be sure to report back on any results you might have with VED usage = good or bad.

Old Man
Title: Question about constriction rings
Post by: alcohen on February 05, 2009, 10:07:55 AM
The constriction rings that come with the VED...  What do they feel like?  I have heard that the end of your penis starts to feel icy cold.  Is this true?  For those that have done it, does using a VED and a constriction ring feel normal?  Is there any sort of constriction ring that could be used independently of a VED?  For example, if through the use of Cialis I could achieve a temporary full erection, could I then use just a constrictor ring to keep the blood in there?  Or is that not how it works?
Title: Re: Constriction Band
Post by: Hawk on February 05, 2009, 11:39:13 AM
A constriction band can make the glans fee cold after several minutes IF you are not having intercourse.

There are an assortment of "cock rings" available that will likely control venous leakage since the veins run very near the surface of the penis and the arteries are much deeper.  Just google the term and you will probably get millions of hits.  There are many types, from those that fasten around the penis to ringa that slip over the penis.  Some can be put on flaccid and you expand into them.  Some are designed to put on while erect.  They even come in various styles from nude looking to "heavy metal".  A simple rubber "O" ring works.

Here is a link to a medical grade adjustable band that I would recommend.  It is less traumatizing due to easy application and removal. http://www.phoenix5.org/sexaids/other/actis.html

paste this link and add another "w" for some idea on selection (I disabled it because I do not want to link to this site) ww.babeland.com/sexinfo/howto/use-a-cock-ring
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tired on February 05, 2009, 02:42:10 PM
I was reading some of the oler questions in the ved section and I have a new question. I am on my 3rd week of the protocol and everything seems to be going smooth. When I first asked about the ved use I mentioned I was diagnosed with peyronies about a 2 years ago, but I did not mention I already had congenital curve downward. The peyronies is a curve to the left. In your opinion does this effect how or if I should be using the ved? thanks for any response, and especially thanks Old Man for your storehouse of wisdom.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 05, 2009, 10:08:25 PM
tired:

OK, you have a double situation with both a congenital curve and a Peyronies Disease curve. In my work with many guys with the same situation, we have found that the Peyronies Disease curve was helped, but the congenital curve remained the same. There is one penile condition called Chordee that does not respond well to VED therapy too. So make sure that you don't have that condition. It is quite similar to congenital curve in looks and it most cases only a qualified uro can tell the difference. So you might want to check that out with your uro on your next appointment with him/her.

If you are doing VED therapy now or planning to do it, I would strongly urge you to be very careful, at least at first, with your VED therapy sessions. Caution in not overpumping vacuum pressure is to be observed at all times.

I personally don't see any reason you should not use VED therapy. However, if you do and have any unexplained pain or serious discomfort from VED usage, be sure to check it out with your uro or at least you primary care physician.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 05, 2009, 10:16:21 PM
alcohen:

Hawk has given you valuable information about restrictor rings/cock rings so be careful to use his advice.

Now, I am adding some more valuable words of caution to his recommendations:

DO NOT, REPEAT, DO NOT USE A RESTRICTOR RING OR RINGS IN ANY SHAPE, FORM, OR FASHION WHILE USING THE VED FOR Peyronies Disease THERAPY! THEY ARE TO BE USED ONLY TO HOLD UP ERECTIONS FOR SEXUAL ACTIVITY!! SERIOUS DAMAGE CAN AND WILL OCCUR IF THEY ARE USED! IF USED, THEY WILL PRECLUDE THE OUTFLOW OF BLOOD FROM YOUR PENILE CHAMBERS WHICH IS NECESSARY FOR SAFE VED USAGE.

Note: Caps used for high emphasis.

Old Man


Title: Re: alcohen - Question about constriction rings
Post by: Thin Man on February 06, 2009, 04:11:53 AM
alcohen and everyone,

In reply to

Quote from: alcohen on February 05, 2009, 10:07:55 AM
... if through the use of Cialis I could achieve a temporary full erection, could I then use just a constrictor ring to keep the blood in there?  Or is that not how it works?

PLEASE DON'T DO THIS. I DID JUST RECENTLY AND WAS INJURED FROM IT.

Please see my recent message in General Comments on Peyronie's

Reply #1120 on: February 02, 2009, 10:48:02 PM »
QuoteMy injury suddenly worsened about 10 weeks ago from carelessness on my part - I was using an erection ring while experimenting with a very low dose of Cialis (which wasn't working that well for me obviously). Huge mistake, please don't do this. I had a very painful ejaculation and immediately developed an hourglass deformity about mid shaft, further narrowing of the distal half of my penis, and some shortening, still no curvature, but greatly reduced erectile and ejaculatory function which I hope will improve.

I just saw Dr. Wessels about this today and he feels there is very little he can do for me. I'm curious to know if anyone else has had a similar experience. For me using the ring and Cialis together seems to have caused an internal explosion of sorts (so far as I can tell right now - ultrasound coming). Maybe this wouldn't be so for everyone, but I got the new injury very suddenly directly following this incident. It's terrifying to see something like this appear so quickly. The hourglass has slightly improved over 10 weeks and the pain has subsided by now, but I've lost about half an inch over time. Also I was having an easier time getting erections in the first month, seems to be somewhat more challenging now.

Thin Man
Title: Re: Ed drugs and Constriction Rings
Post by: Hawk on February 06, 2009, 12:18:17 PM
I use ED drugs and constriction rings on a regular basis for sex.  I use a ring that is snug but not overly tight.  It makes all the difference in the world to what would otherwise be a borderline usable/unusable erection.

I have used the Actis adjustable noose and clear rings that come with a Vacurect VED.  They are flat like a washer with a funnel like hole in the thin center material.  http://www.vacurect.com/howitworks.htm

Neither of these ring snap onto the penis like a rubber band.  One is adjusted with a slip knot.  One is put on flaccid and provided snug tension as you get erect.
Title: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bassman on February 06, 2009, 02:50:18 PM
Gentlemen,

I am beginning to run low on the lubricant that came with my VED. I know it needs to be a water base product, is this something I can purchase at a drug store or do I have to order it from the VED manufacturer ?
If I can purchase it from a drug store what type / brand would you suggest ?

Bassman
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 06, 2009, 03:06:40 PM
bassman:

The best and cheapest lubricant you can buy is the Equate Personal Lubricant from Walmart. The cost is around $2.00 per tube. It works just as well as KY gel and the lube from the VED manufacturer. And, the price is much less.

So trot on down to the WM Super Center and stock up.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bassman on February 06, 2009, 03:26:18 PM
Old Man,

Thank you, can I use KY gel in a pinch ?

Bassman
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 06, 2009, 05:25:37 PM
bassman:

You can use most any kind of water soluble personal lubricant. Do not use any lubricant that is not water soluble, such as petroleum based ones. These will cause the VED pump to fail early if any should be drawn into the pump mechanism. They are difficult to clean up too. Ky gel is an excellent water soluble personal lubricant, just a bit pricey but it is OK to use.

So, be careful to use the correct water soluble items. They also provide for easier cleanup.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bassman on February 06, 2009, 06:29:04 PM
Old Man,

Thanks for your wisdom !

Bassman
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: mikesb on February 06, 2009, 07:50:46 PM
Quote from: bassman on February 06, 2009, 06:29:04 PM
Old Man,

Thanks for your wisdom !

Bassman

I echo that sentiment and thank you sincerely for answering my PM's during this initiation period (for me) to VED protocol, your advice has helped immeasureably!!! (Well, maybe several months down the road your help WILL be measureable).

Mike
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 06, 2009, 08:29:10 PM
bassman & mikesb:

Thanks for the kudos, but that is what we do on this forum - help where we can. Just keep up the good work and make some progress.

Please keep us informed as to any progress or results whether it is good or bad. The forum members need to know what helps and what does not.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Art on February 06, 2009, 08:44:20 PM
Good Evening !  
    I joined this forum back in December of  '08 looking for help finding a VED with some sort of credibility (use , durability and reasonable cost) and hopefully a successful track record "correcting the curve".

    Judging by a majority of the discussions I have read, drugs (potentially negative side effects to the rest of your body), surgery (physically hazardous and certainly quite expensive) and "wait and see" ( my urologist's recommendation) all offer no real CURE in the immediate future.  I am 64 now so I cannot afford to wait much longer for either the medical community or the drug industry to announce the "Miracle Cure" – Take two pills & call me in the morning.

I did follow Hawk's advice and purchased a Vitality OTC vacuum pump from the Fitzz Corporation.  Unfortunately, either their shipping department and/or UPS messed up the initial order.  I waited close to two weeks and did not receive the product.  I went to the UPS web site and discovered the product was not even picked up.  

    The gentleman at Fitzz was sincere in his apologies and assured me it would be "on its way" the next day.  Indeed, it was and it was delivered two days later.  The really nice part of this process was Fitzz's attitude about correcting a problem even if it was as simple as a missed placed order form.  When I opened the box I was pleasantly surprised to find they had upgraded my order and shipped the battery operated model (I had ordered the "manual" model).

     I am aware of the warning about using too much "negative pressure", but so far that has not been a significant problem.  I was very careful, even a bit too cautious the first few times I used it.  The controls on the pump respond quickly and are easy to use.  

    I did modify the daily regimen just a bit.  Instead of maintaining negative pressure for only ten seconds at a time, I hold the vacuum for almost a minute, ten times per session.  I think I understand the philosophy of "training" my penis, and all that is inside it and I would think veins, vessels and tissue would learn quicker if held for longer than ten seconds.  When exercising other parts of our body we emphasize duration, i.e. walking or running a bit longer each session to increase our lungs ability (and capacity) to exchange oxygen.

    So would it make sense to hold my penis straighter (and eventually a bit longer) for longer time frames, teaching the tissue that this is your new shape, this is your new capacity ?  In any event, I have been using it for a full two weeks and so far I have not experienced any bruising or unusual swelling.  Once again, I am quite careful as to the amount of negative pressure I apply.

Thank you for the recommendation.  And thank you for all the efforts and hard work you do to keep this site working so well.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 06, 2009, 10:17:57 PM
Art:

Glad that you got some fast action from the Fitzz company. I have personally been in contact with the company president about the delays, misplaced orders and in some cases leaving out 2 of the cylinders from the order package. He assured me that corrective action would be handled ASAP.

He has made corrections for a number of orders lately and that is good. One of his problems occurred when his supplier, Augusta Medical Systems, had a problem with delivery of the cylinders from their supplier. That problem has now been resolved and things should be back on track.

It is good to hear that your problem was quickly resolved and your order was updated to the battery powered model VED. Based on my experience with using the VED for helping with ED and Peyronies Disease problems, I would like to state that holding the pressure too long between cycles of the exercise can and will eventually cause your some serious problems. The experience of many on this forum have come to realize that less is better in "remolding" the penile corpora tissues. More frequent holding cycles will over time produce better results than the longer holding times.

Many uros are now coming to realize the value of VED therapy in more ways than one. Of course, it is an excellent tool to produce erections for those of us who have an ED problem. It can and will produce one of the best erections that a person can possibly get. However, if used improperly, the VED can cause serious damage, so that is why you read about the cautions posted all over this forum about the correct amount of pressure. The watchword for VED therapy is this: if you feel discomfort or pain in any form, this is an alert that you have over pumped the pressure.

So, be forewarned that you must, repeat must, exercise your best judgment about the amount of vacuum pressure you use. None of us want to hear that you have caused further trauma to your most prized possession.

The bottom line for VED therapy is that less is better than more. Read all the posts you can about what others are doing in the protocol. It is a tried and proven tool for Peyronies Disease therapy, at least, based on the experiences of those on this forum.

My recommendation for you is to try holding the pressure at varying levels and different holding times until you find one that is comfortable and you feel no pain or discomfort. You implied that you might have had some swelling with using the VED. If you did, this is a sign that at some point you did over pump the pressure.

Good luck on your protocol and keep the forum posted on your progress or lack thereof so that others can benefit from your experiences. We all are here to help others in any way possible, so feel free to join in with any comments or questions you might have.

Old Man
Title: Re: Ed drugs and Constriction Rings
Post by: McNally on February 07, 2009, 11:31:13 AM
I use Viagra 100 mg (up from 50 mg a year ago) to aid intercourse mainly in maintaining an erection. Do constriction rings provide any benefit other than maintaining an erection? I feel like I read someplace, sometime that they might actually help straighten the penis during an erection. Any truth to this or is it a case of a misread or another one of my mismemories?  :D
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hitman on February 07, 2009, 12:53:12 PM
3rd day of the first week in the VED program  :)

penis is noticebaly bigger in the flaccid state. less curvature when erect. first day I used the VED I got a phantom effect. erections are coming by but rather slowly. Oh and the foreskin feels funny.

I'm going to an endo because I suspect hormonal deficiency and also I'm dieting down. I tested my Vitamin D levels and they are very low.

All in all good so far.

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on February 07, 2009, 01:56:59 PM
McNally,

Don't use constriction rings for anything except erectile dysfunction, and then limit the time to 20-30 minutes. They do not allow you to take off the VED and walk around without it, acting as a form of non-erotic erection that keeps you pumped up. Instead, they run the risk of leading to vascular problems.

If Viagra works for you, then use that. You might find Cialis works well and builds up a benefit over time (like two weeks, such that you can find a "maintenance dose" (ie 5 mg a day) that keeps you ready to play. The VED is to work on getting out the kinks (so to speak) in Peyronie's.

Tim
Title: Re: Hitman and others
Post by: ComeBacKid on February 08, 2009, 12:24:46 AM
Hitman,

You will notice your hanging bigger in the flaccid state, long after your done pumping, this is normal.  I got quite a jump in size, but I had quite a loss of size due to my peyronies, so I probably ended up being back to where I was before I had peyronies, but still this definately is a good feeling to gain size.  Just be sure to pump slowly and if you notice any little red dots it means you are pumping to hard, if you don't notice any, that is good, that means your pumping right.  Another thing for anyone pumping, you need to make sure after you pump and hold an erection or as big as you can fill the tube, then release the air and let your penis go totally flaccid again in the tube.  Restriction rings shouldn't be used with VED therapy at all!

Comebackid
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Fredca on February 08, 2009, 02:18:37 PM
What happens if you are using VED, for say 26 weeks, and you stop using it? Does your penis slowly fall back to its original state?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on February 08, 2009, 03:54:39 PM
Fredca
I started the VED exercise recommended by Old Man 10/07. Was making nice progress. 7-8 08 a accident put me in the hospital with a punctured esophagus, collapsed lung and put my heart into a-fib.
I was in the hospital for 10 days. When I came home I looked 110 instead of 65. I looked at my penis and thought I had lost all I had gained and more. I was not using the VED for about 2 weeks before starting back. In less than a week I was back to where I was before the accident.
IMHO opinion keep up the VED exercise. It helps! ;D
Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: hornman on February 08, 2009, 06:51:11 PM
OK, I received my VED and am on my 3rd day of use.  I have the 3 tube manual pump.  I'm hoping  it will be benificial to my unique case of peyronies.  I have the hourglass deformity and the waisting is at the very base of my erect penis. This means that the tissue I am trying to remodel is really not within the tube. Old man - Should I skip the smaller tube?  The larger tube will allow more of the dented areas to be drawn into it.  I don't have much of a curve.  Maybe 15 degs.

Hornman
Title: Re: Fredca's inquiry
Post by: Mick on February 08, 2009, 08:18:05 PM
I followed the 26 week protocol, finishing in August of 2007.  My results were quite good (you can see them in the Childs Boards); thereafter, I used the VED sporadically for about 3 months, then went about nine without using it at all.  I have just recently resumed using it 3 times per week.  There has been virtually no change since the completion of the 26 week protocol, but I must admit that I feel healthier since I resumed pumping.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 08, 2009, 09:02:06 PM
hornman:

No, I would not skip using the small cylinder. It is only for the first two week period and you need your penis to get acclimated to fitting into the confined space. Just be careful not to use too much pressure to adversely affect the Peyronies Disease symptoms at the base as you said.

After you finish the first two weeks of the protocol, just use the B and C cylinders as shown in the protocol listing. As Mick says, one should use the VED for maintenance of size and a healthy penis if for nothing else.

Used properly, the VED will in most cases afford at least some relief of the symptoms. It is also a most valuable help for ED problems by using the restrictor rings properly and with the right tension.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tperry1010 on February 11, 2009, 03:47:43 PM
Old  Man,

I figured out how to post after reading Hawks simple instructions. Still would appreciate some guidance on ordering all the tubes on the Vitality so I can use the "Three tube protocol"

Has anyone have any experience with a traction device verses a VED. I tried traction for several months with no success;I simply couldn't wear the device for more than a couple of hours at most...also caused bruising which led to off and on use, instead of the 6-8 hours or so a day they recommend, which was unreasonable. More consistent long term use may have produced better results, but at least with the VED, the protocol is reasonable.

Thanks,

TP
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hitman on February 11, 2009, 06:17:37 PM
how long does it normally take for tissue modelling to take place?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: mikemck on February 11, 2009, 08:19:36 PM
Has anyone used the longer tubes for the Vitality device?

How much longer are they?

Are they the same diameter as standard at each end?

Thanks.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: mikemck on February 11, 2009, 08:38:25 PM
I have been using the Vitality and am about 1/2 way through the 26 week protocol.  I have regained about 3/4" of lost length.  The hourglass deformities seem somewhat improved. Originally I had about a 45 degree upward bend about 1/3 of the way back from the end.  That seems to be about 35 degrees now, although it is hard to know if I get the middle of the protractor in the same place each time.

With the 3 tubes vacuum is created in the space between the tubes.  This pulled on my skin at the openings between the tubes near the base.  This caused a lot of pulling on the skin as my penis stretched into the tube, especially with the small tube.  I couldn't pump much vacuum without much discomfort from pulling skin.

I have recently started using strips of electrical tape across the space between the rubber ring and the inner tube.  Now the small and medium size tubes are much more comfortable to use and I can pump more with them.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: MJ33 on February 12, 2009, 04:18:44 AM
Can someone explain the rationale behind the 3 cylinders, and why does the protocol start with the smallest cylinder and move to the largest? I would have thought you'd start in the largest cylinder which could accommodate a larger penile curve, and then gradually move to the smallest diameter cylinder which would force the penis into the straightest line?
Title: Re: Tperry, Hitman,Mikemck, MJ33
Post by: Old Man on February 12, 2009, 10:01:55 AM
TPerry1010: Go to the Fitzz web site to get their phone number. Then call them about how to order the extra cylinders.

Hitman: The time it takes to realize results from VED therapy varies between individuals. You just have to continue with the protocol and observe any and all changes you experience.

Mikemck: See note to TP above. Their representative will be able to assist you. Also, you should ask the company rep about the problem of the "pinching effect" you are experiencing. There were some VEDs that were sold with an insert problem. There has been a fix for this so ask about that too. Glad to hear you are seeing some good results from the therapy.

MJ33: The three cylinder model VEDs are purposely designed to start off the therapy with the penis being confined into a smaller space to help start the "learning curve" of the penis to remold or remodel its shape. Being in a confined space, the cylinders keep the penis in its most straightest position thereby sort of forcing it to remain straight while in the cylinder. The medium and large cylinders are so designed so that the penis can experience more open space to stretch in girth and length as well. This protocol was developed after many trials and errors of the company that designed and manufactured the VED. So, if your are into VED therapy with a three cylinder VED, I strongly recommend that you stick to the scheduled cylinder protocol.

Regards to all, Old Man



Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on February 15, 2009, 04:40:51 AM
i remember reading posts about this so if someone could remind me...

how do you buy the lube in a normal drug store? where is it usually found? what's it sold for.... (i know it's not sold as VED lube! hehehe)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on February 15, 2009, 07:11:36 AM
Lube is water based KY.

The best place to buy it is Wal-mart store brand found where the condoms are sold.

Works just as good or better than the name brands, and only about $2.00 a tube.

Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 15, 2009, 10:06:02 PM
ggg953:

I tried to answer your last PM dated Sunday 2/15/09. Your inbox is full and cannot accept any more messages. You should open your message center inbox page. Locate the the boxes in the right hand margin of each incoming PM. Place a check mark in the square indicating which messages you want deleted, then scroll to the bottom of the listing and click delete selected message(s).

Then and then only will you be able to get more PMs. You can determine how full your inbox is by checking the percent it is full in the left margin of your inbox page where is shows how full your inbox is, etc. You can determine how many incoming PMs you are allowed by the percentage of fullness shown. (For example: if you inbox shows 10% full and you have 10 messages, you are allowed 100 incoming PM. Note that this is an example only and that each member has different allowable incoming PMs.)

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/lack of progress
Post by: NG_F on February 16, 2009, 04:40:33 PM
Quote from: Old Man on November 04, 2008, 09:39:03 PM
Toby:

Sorry to hear that you have not seen any good results of the VED therapy. From what you are saying, your plaque and other symptoms came after you started using the VED. Sometimes this happens and that is why I always try to state the VED therapy does not work successfully for all. I know that you don't want to hear that, but I must be truthful about it. However, don't give up the ship just yet. I may take as much as a year or more on the VED to see good results. It has in some cases that I have seen.

Anyway, try and keep a positive attitude about it all and keep up the schedule to the letter.

Old Man
This is what has happened to me.I was recommended the use of the VED for ED from my urologist.I started using it in 2002

For the first 2 months I had amazing turgid erections with very profound glan expansion, something I have not seen in 5 years.

After this I noticed my erections were starting to suffer,I became flacid coming out of the tube and my glans started getting small and soft.

I also noticed that in the tube my erection starting bending slightly to the left.
I did not use any excesss internal pressure.

I then switched to a pump with a reliable gauge on it and always stayed within propper pressures and tube times.

My erections did not improve at any point after this,so I discontinued the use of the VED. I was also on propecia from 2000-2008. I've been off now for 8 months.

The curve is very pronounced in semi-erection 40 degrees to the left,but straightens out to less than 10 degrees during occasional erections.

I did not have this curve or this amount of ED prior to VED usage.

Did I damage tunica or soft tissue in the cavernosa ie)sinusoids? Will any therapies or treatments help ie)pentox,vitE, Acetyl-L-Carnitine ?

My penis is always shrunk in the flacid state and I rarely get spontaneous erections.Morning erections are short lived and subside after urination.
My hydraulics seem broken as sitting on the toilet seat and going to the bathroom does not induce PC muscle  erections like in the past.

Doppler ultrasounds from 2003 and 2008 show good response in 2003 but with high velocity in the left cavernosal artery after 30 mins (76 cm/sec) usual range is 25-40 cm/sec.
In 2008 I had a poor response after 5 mins,fair after 30 mins and good to turgid upon discharge.Velocities were very high at 64 and 72 cm/sec right and left arteries after 5 mins and 128 and 164 cm/sec right and left cavernosal arteries.

Is the rapid flow from damage and lack of dispersion/distribution to the helecine arterioles and sinusoids or is there a constrictive adrenergic involvement involved as I did experience a  turgid erection shortly after the test was over.

I am so angry to listen to this urologist.I feel that I may have doomed myself with some permanent damage? I would appreciate any input.

I will see the best and do whatever it takes  to fix my condition as much as possible.I will not touch the VED again unless recommended by a very experienced urologist in these matters. Thanks in advance for any advice and information.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ptolemy on February 17, 2009, 08:29:59 PM
NG_F, how can you be sure the VED caused your problem?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: NG_F on February 18, 2009, 01:45:44 AM
Quote from: Ptolemy on February 17, 2009, 08:29:59 PM
NG_F, how can you be sure the VED caused your problem?

I had not even a slight curvature before and minimal ED so...but I'm not 100% It could have been weird coincidental suseptability from my usage of propecia I guess  :-\
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 19, 2009, 09:52:04 PM
NG_F:

I agree with Ptolemy. Don't think that the VED did any damage to your penis. Most likely it was the Propecia. There are reports from guys on this forum that the med caused them to develop Peyronies Disease or so they thought.

Suggest that you ask your uro about it and let him/her decide if you have Peyronies Disease or not.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 19, 2009, 10:03:21 PM
G:

Sorry that I cannot answer your PMs. Your inbox is full and so far you have not deleted any of them. You will have to delete at least a few of your incoming PMs to open your inbox so that you can receive answers, etc.

My post below dated February 15, 2009 states how you delete the PMs in your inbox. So, before you can see my replies to your PMs you have to get your inbox opened up, etc.

Old Man

Edited 2/20/09.
Title: Update
Post by: double eagle on February 20, 2009, 11:03:14 AM
Almost 6 weeks into my therapy which has consisted of using the 3 cylinder Vacuum Erection Device, not using ANY drugs, no surgery, no creams, no injections and I have progress, SUBSTANTIAL progress.

I did not do any measurements besides the "bend". When I started, I had roughly a 80-90 degrees bend in the top 2 inches of my penis. It was at it's worst at 87 degrees using a protractor. I could not engage in intercourse, because it was difficult to even enter. Of course, I pushed through and did it anyway.

As of now, I have roughly a 10-15 degree bend. I AM MAN AGAIN! I can even masturbate again! The wasting is still present, but since using the pump, I have had other "favorable" effects on my penis. I have noticed a substantial gain in girth in the flaccid state as well as length. No difference in erection length, but the wasting girth is coming back slowly!

Life is good!
Title: Re: Double Eagle - Success
Post by: Hawk on February 20, 2009, 12:33:17 PM
Double Eagle,

So do I understand that, you went from about a 90 degree bend to about a 10 degree bend is 6 weeks ???
Title: @ Hawk
Post by: double eagle on February 20, 2009, 02:43:11 PM
That would be a correct understanding.

Needless to say, I am absolutely blown away! Wouldn't believe it if I did not live it.

I actually started noticing change about 4 weeks ago.

I will keep you posted if anything changes (let's hope it changes to better).
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on February 21, 2009, 08:19:00 AM
Double Eagle, posts like yours make me feel pretty damn good on a Saturday morning!

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tired on February 24, 2009, 12:50:49 PM
I have just finished thee 6th week with the ved and about to start with the largest cyl today. I dont see any improvement yet, but there is a tingeling sensation where the pain was when I first got peyronies. Is this something I should be concerned about? Thanks for any replies.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 24, 2009, 02:03:18 PM
tired:

That could mean just about anything. However, since you are having change with the fact that you feel something different you could be getting some results of the therapy. Each case of Peyronies Disease is totally different from any other, so only you will be able to know when you are getting good results.

Just stay on schedule with the protocol and be careful not to overpump the vacuum pressure.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hitman on February 24, 2009, 03:13:57 PM
i got the tingling sensations when i first started the use of the B cylinder and thats not surprising because that is the region of plaque.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tired on February 24, 2009, 03:21:33 PM
hitman                                                                                           thanks old man and hitman for the quick replies. hitman you said you also got sensations, did the ved help you? Old Man as I stated earlier in another post I also have some congenital curve issues and you have worked with men with both issues have you seen anyone with any improvement with the congenital issue? thanks again I really appreciate the people on this board.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hitman on February 24, 2009, 03:49:01 PM
I'm in the third week of my VED use. so far I can report a slightly bigger penis in the flaccid state. the main difference however is the colour which is more pinkish than before. the pain on getting an erection is minimal compared to before the VED. It is also less curved when erect. However I belive my health condition is not helping at all.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 24, 2009, 05:11:58 PM
tired:

I have no knowledge of anyone getting any corrective action using the VED for congenital curves. As Hitman says, it can promote a more healthy penis by helping with greater blood flow in and out of the corpora.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on February 25, 2009, 02:54:51 PM
Old Man,

I have not yet heard of anyone doing the VED protocol in order to correct a congenital curvature. Have you? It seems to me that it might work for some folks (at least to the degree that penis enlargement seems to work for some folks too - this would be a form or "enlargement" on the short side, I guess).

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tired on February 25, 2009, 04:45:34 PM
Thanks for the replies. I do have peyronies and a congenital curve, and am using the ved for the peyronies but was curios if it had helped anyone with congenital curve. Thanks again.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 25, 2009, 10:27:25 PM
Tim:

As I posted below, I have no knowledge of anyone getting corrective action for congenital curves using the VED therapy. Some I have worked with said they thought is was better, but they did not know for sure as they still had a curve after VED therapy helped their Peyronies Disease. They did not measure their degree of curve before starting the VED protocol.

I guess the jury is still out on that too. VEDs can and will keep one penis more healthy if used on a regular basis using only moderate vacuum pressure. I still use mine several times a week just for maintenance of what I accomplished during the regular protocol of therapy.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: ghost24 on February 28, 2009, 02:03:34 PM
Hello,

Does the Vitality OTC from fitzz have a pressure gauge so that you can know how much pressure is in the cylinder?  If not, has this been a problem or dangerous to anyone using it?

Also, in the picture shown on the fitzz website, the manual pump looks like it's a little  plastic lever.  Has anyone had any problems with this breaking or any other durability issues?  It just looks cheaply made at first glance.

Also, on the website they mention gentlemen with peyronie's using shaving cream instead of ky to lubricate.  This seems like it would cause irritation, any comments?  Do you have to use lubrication when using a VED?

Thanks for your help.

Ghost
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 28, 2009, 03:38:29 PM
ghost24:

Welcome to the forum. Glad that you are considering the Vitality OTC three cylinder VED. It is one of the best medical quality VEDs on the market for the price. You asked several things about this unit, and I will address them in the order you asked:

1. No, the VED does not have a pressure gauge with it. There really is not need for one since the person using it goes by the feel of the vacuum pressure. One will know immediately if he has used too much vacuum pressure. And no, I know of no one on the forum using a VED that has caused any permanent injury to himself. A few guys have overpumped and caused a temporary swelling and/or redness of their penis skin.

2. The lever is of a good durable material and so far as I know, no one has had any problem with the lever breaking. The unit does have a certain amount warranty in case there is breakage or malfunction of the VED.

3. Several guys on the forum do use shaving cream as a lubricant when using the VED. My personal take on this is that it would cause me irritation, so I don't use shaving cream. The VED comes with a tube of the company recommended lubrication. However, once that is used up, most of us use the Equate Brand of Personal Lubricant from Walmart. It only costs a little over $2.00 per tube and is an excellent water soluble lubricant. Yes, one should use plenty of lubricant when using a VED so that a very slippery surface is provided for the penis while sliding in and out of the VED. One must use the lubricant to keep the penis slippery while doing the 26 week protocol that is recommended for VED therapy.

Feel free to ask any and all questions about VED usage. Many guys on the forum are using it for their Peyronies Disease therapy and some have had great success with its use. Would suggest you go back over the VED compiled posts on the Child Boards topic to get a better overall discussion of its use. This topic also has many posts regarding its use.

Old Man

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tperry1010 on February 28, 2009, 03:45:41 PM
Hi Guys,

I just received my  my 3 cylinder Vitality VED from Fitzz today. Thanks to Old Man for all his help. I will post my results. I hope I am lucky as Double Eagle. I have a 90 degree bend, and am miserable.

Thank God for this site!!

Tom
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Michaelscott on March 01, 2009, 01:02:28 PM
Hey guys, I'm pretty new to the forum. I'm relatively young and have had Peyronie's Disease for about 7 years. With the advancement of viable treatment options for Peyronie's Disease I've decided to take a stand and try to fix my problem. I'm looking into traction and ved but my concern is that these methods may make my condition worse since I've had Peyronie's Disease for so long and calcification has probably taken place. Does anyone know if traction or ved can make Peyronie's Disease worse if the person has very hardened plaque and calcification? I've done a lot of research on the subject and can't seem to get any answers. I don't mind spending the time and money and getting no results, but making my problem worse is something I obviously don't want to do. Also, it is quite demoralizing to know that even if a successful treatment of Peyronie's Disease is introduced (like the drug by auxilium for example) that it might not be effective for people who have had the disease for a long period of time and likely have a lot of calcification. Any insights???
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LWillisjr on March 01, 2009, 02:39:08 PM
Michaelscott,
I don't see how VED or traction use could make your Peyronies Disease worse. I don't think I have read any posts o this forum where usage of these made anything worse. I think the worse thing that could happen is that you would not see any improvment. If you think that you have calcification, Dr. Levine stated to me that once calcification sets in that the only treatment he know of that works is surgery. He is not aware of any therapy that will reverse the calcification.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tperry1010 on March 01, 2009, 03:03:10 PM
Michaelscott,

For what it's worth, I've had peyronie's 3 years, have tried traction and it didn't help. Possibly because it is impossible to wear the awkward device the recommended time. I've seen no post on success with the traction device.

I have seen multiple post with success with VED, and it is much less awkward and time consuming. I am just beginning my VED protocol, and will post my results.

Good luck,

Tom
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on March 01, 2009, 03:18:59 PM
michaelscott
My peyronies started in 1995 I did not start proper VED exercise until 2007 after a failed implant procedure.

The year I was on the exercise recommended by Old Man let me gain back about 3/4 of an inch of lost length and made my penis much healthier.

I first met my new surgeon 7/08 and did not get my implant until 10/08 because of an accident. Doctor said to keep up the VED exercise until the day before surgery. I did and it lead to a better outcome.

The peyronies scar on top of my penis is the only reason I could not regain most all the lost length. I believe that if I had the exercise in 1995 or 96 my loss would not have so dramatic, 25%.

The exercise is on the Child Boards and Old Man is always glad to help.

Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Michaelscott on March 01, 2009, 03:25:11 PM
Jackp,

Thanks for the reply. Did your VED improve curvature as well or just length?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on March 01, 2009, 03:35:22 PM
Michael
I am among the 1/3 of peyronies patients that the curve straighten after taking 400IU of vitamin E 3 times a day and potaba. Mine did in about 18 months. The down side was I lost 25% of my length. The doctor I was going to in 1996-97 could not offer any other help.

The VED did improve length, girth and my penile health after over 10 years of nothing but vitamin E.

Believe me I tried everything legal, and some not, trying to restore the damage. The only thing that helped was VED exercise recommended here.

I did have implant surgery last October that was from the other complications that followed peyronies, low testosterone, ED, loss of night time erections, venous leakage and corporal fibrosis. Remember surgery is the option of last resort.

Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices - overpumping?
Post by: hornman on March 04, 2009, 09:51:18 AM
I am in my 4th week.  The second week on the B cylinder that is.  Things are feeling a little numb and the plaque seems more inflamed .  I am only pumping enough to hold a seal.  I am not going for size.  Should I continue with the program or give it a rest?  I certainly don't want to make things worse.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: UK on March 04, 2009, 01:10:32 PM
MichaelScott

Just because you have had Peyronies for a long time does not mean you have calcification. A good urologist by touch or a scan would confirm this. Approx 30% of sufferers scar goes on to be calcified. If you have fibrosis (non calcified) for many years it should not then become calcified later on, it can be assumed to be stable at that point - that is what my urologist told me.

Surgery is apparently not the only option. I read but had my post removed as I provided the link to a partner site Q&A, that Pentox is now used by Dr Lue and others for calcificied scars as it is showing that it removes the calcium. I'm happy to message you where I read that. Pentox is shown to be effective in early stage active disease and not proven to be effective once regular fibrosis has set in.

I guess if you could get rid of the calcification then you could have more success with a non-surgical approach like VED or traction.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: phatkatwun on March 04, 2009, 01:24:27 PM
I am now a little past half way through the VED protocol.

I started out with about a 90 degree upward bend, a kink near the end, waisting and very little blood flowing into the head with a natural or Cialis induced erection. The length and girth were considerable smaller because of the lack of use for a couple of years after having prostate cancer.

At the present time the upward bend has not changed and is still about 90 degrees, the kink near the end is still there, the waisting has gotten somewhat better and there is more blood flowing into the head from a Cialis induced erection. The length and girth has about returned to the pre-prostate cancer sizes. Erections are now essentially non-existent without Cialis and with Cialis they aren't adequate either.

I had radiation and hormone treatment for the prostate cancer. The PSA is now down to 0.301 and supposedly cured.

When using the VED my erections are the best I have had for the past 20 years, the length and girth are great. I have had trouble finding the best constrictor rings, but have found that when using two of the tight ones it will usually work. The good VED erection however, doesn't do much good because of the 90 degree bend.

I still believe the effort so far has been very worthwhile and maybe at the end of the other half of the protocol there will be some improvement in the 90 degree bend.
Title: Re: Phatkatwun
Post by: ComeBacKid on March 04, 2009, 01:43:00 PM
Phatkat,

Just as a friendly reminder if your doing the 26 week protocol you don't use the constriction rings.  However if your using the VED to gain an erection for sex you would use the constriction rings.  Using the constriction rings with the VED when doing the peyronies protocol is dangerous...

Comebackid
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: phatkatwun on March 04, 2009, 03:42:38 PM
Comebackid

I understand quite well. Two different issues.

phatkatwun
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: default87 on March 04, 2009, 10:32:09 PM
Hello again, quick question for those you who ordered from fitzz.  I place my order over 2 weeks ago, and haven't received either of the 2 emails promised to me after the original order confirmation, or the product itself.  I sent an email to their customer care inquiring about this 3 days ago with no response.

Have anyone else had trouble dealing with this company?  If so, what did you do?
Title: Re: Default
Post by: ComeBacKid on March 04, 2009, 11:08:42 PM
Default,

Not familiar with that company, do you have a website link you can post for us to examine.  You can make a ved from scratch at home, we have instructions on the forum to help save you a dime. Also a handfull of companies sell VED's, I got the soma correct model, its been so long since I got it and used it I forgot some of the information regarding it.  I plan to start using my VED again in the next few days, it seemed to help gain back size, especially girth.

Comebackid
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on March 04, 2009, 11:33:33 PM
Default87:

The Fitzz company has a toll free number. Just give them a call and discuss your order with a technician. The company had a problem a few weeks ago with deliveries from their manufacturer. They were back ordered for their customers.

You should have received at least a confirmation of your order, so follow up on it.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tired on March 05, 2009, 09:47:41 AM
Old Man:  many on here talk about your protocol as different than the one posted for the 3 piece medical ved, do you suggest something different? I already asked about just doing it the ten times only, and have been doing it like the posted protocol except doing it over and over for 10 to 15 minutes per day.If you suggest something different I would be interested in knowing. THANKS
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on March 05, 2009, 12:17:03 PM
Tired:

No, I don't have a different protocol for the three cylinder VED than that posted in the Child Boards.

Sometimes, a guy wants to do something different to vary the protocol so I did develop what is called the "Milking Action" for use with the three cylinder model VEDs. This consists on nothing more than pumping up a partial erection and then simply moving the entire VED out from one's body an inch or two while holding the vacuum pressure, but do not release the vacuum while doing this. This can be done as fast or as slow as the individual feels comfortable with doing. Takes a bit of practice to get the hang of it, but it does seem to work better than just doing the regular pump up, hold and release cycles.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tired on March 05, 2009, 12:53:31 PM
thanks
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ironman on March 06, 2009, 03:03:59 PM
Please post links to seller(s) of 3 tube devices. Thanks.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on March 06, 2009, 06:21:33 PM
Ironman:

The link to the web site for the Vitality OTC Three cylinder VED is:  www.fitzz.com

If you mention the promo code TEAM when ordering on line a discount is usually given the purchaser.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: gigidoc on March 07, 2009, 10:17:18 AM
For someone trying to correct the curvature without a need for extra length or diameter would the smaller cylinder A be the best option? Is there any beneficial effect on the curve from the larger cylinders?
Also I was wondering if a baby aspirin would have a similar effect to Pentox since both have similar blood thinning properties.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on March 07, 2009, 10:32:57 AM
The effects of Pentox have (probably) nothing to do with blood thinning properties. IT is the inhibition of TGF that makes it work (though it may exert other effects like inhibition of TNF too).

So the answer is no, aspirin will not do the same thing.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on March 07, 2009, 03:51:30 PM
gigidoc:

The main purpose of using the A or small cylinder in VED therapy for Peyronies Disease is to confine ones penis into a small area to that it is held very straight. In addition, it puts a pulling pressure lengthwise which helps with more stretching of the affected area(s) of the penile shaft.

The three cylinder protocol is designed to give an overall therapy effect on ones penis. It was developed through many trial and errors on the part of the manufacturer. The protocol is the result of their in house testing along with input from some who were enlisted to provide feed back from demo models provided them.

It does not work for all, but it has been suggested that about 85 to 90 percent of users report at least some success in therapy for Peyronies Disease. So far, as far as I know, there have been no official trial/studies done officially to give credence to the above figures. There has been a study done by a firm in Birmingham, Alabama, but their results seem to have not gotten published yet.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tperry1010 on March 07, 2009, 04:04:24 PM
I purchased a 3 tube Vitality  and have been pumping a week. Although all has gone well so far, I am naturally cautious about over pumping and injuring myself. I instinctively want to pump as much as possible to cause the most remolding, but I stop when I am engorged and it becomes "mildly " painful.....and my penis seems to have grown about 40% in length. Does that seem about right??

Also, the 26 week protocol calls for only 10 pumps per day of 5 to 10 seconds duration' which translates to a total of 50 to 100 seconds a day , not including pumping (takes me about 5 seconds per time.)

The Special note says you can modify, but to use caution!  50 - 100 seconds a day seems very low to have an effect, but it's great if that's all it takes.  I am going to try old mans "milking action."

I would be interested if Double Eagle (the most recent success story) followed this protocol. Any input would be appreciated.  

Thanks

TP1010
Title: Re: Pterry
Post by: Hawk on March 07, 2009, 04:09:58 PM
Quote from: tperry1010 on March 07, 2009, 04:04:24 PM
... have been pumping a week....and my penis seems to have grown about 40% in length. Does that seem about right??

???  So are you saying you increased like from about 5 inches to say 7 inches in length in a week ???

No that does not seem about right, in fact it seems utterly unbelievable!
Title: Re: tperry
Post by: ComeBacKid on March 08, 2009, 01:13:20 AM
I did the full six months and followed the protocol for cylinder use.  As for time on each pump and hold I did my own thing.  In the beginning like the first three weeks you just want to get yourself used to lightly pumping and play around with the VED.  After this I went and held each erection for like 25 seconds, then let it go just about flaccid.  This worked for me I noticeably gained size back, mainly girth with slight length gain.  It will work, it does take time though and patience and gets tedious after awhile!

Comebackid
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: double eagle on March 09, 2009, 09:43:32 AM
Quote from: tperry1010 on March 07, 2009, 04:04:24 PM
I would be interested if Double Eagle (the most recent success story) followed this protocol. Any input would be appreciated.  


The first 2 weeks were 10 second holds. The next three were 15 second holds. I am now up to 20 seconds per hold.

I do not think I will go past 30 seconds each.

I have noticed that while the curve to the left had decreased, the upward curve increased a few degrees. I always had an upswing to my natural curve, I have just noticed a little bit more.

I also have noticed that the size of the "hardening" has gotten smaller, but I have noticed another set of "nuggets" has formed on the top side of my penis as well. These don't feel as compact and round, it feels more like a series of bumps, almost like little "half" pearls.

I wonder if the original has broken up and moved around? Maybe that might be the cause of the "success"?

Anyone else experience similar?
Title: Re: Curve reduction is not ALWAYS good news
Post by: Hawk on March 09, 2009, 12:58:34 PM
Hopefully most will NOT experience this but keep in mind that plaque formation on the opposite side of the penis will reduce the curve.  It is caused by disease progression, not reduction.  Such situations reduce the curve by shorten the penis much like a Nesbit tuck.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on March 09, 2009, 11:53:01 PM
OLDMAN - can i give the ved a break for a while ( say a week)  or does one have to use it every day??
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on March 10, 2009, 11:20:03 AM
Iceman:

You can do whatever you want to with the protocol. However, it is designed to keep the penile tissue under a systematic means of exercising or stretching.

I recommend that if you are off the schedule for more than a week to start over. So, I guess that you would be safe to lay off for a week and then resume at the weekly schedule you left off, etc.

Remember, that consistency is the keyword in VED therapy.

Old Man
Title: Hawk reply
Post by: double eagle on March 10, 2009, 12:23:19 PM
One helluva gut/reality check!  ;D

I had to grab the old tape measure!  :o

No loss in length! WHEW!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tperry1010 on March 10, 2009, 07:18:03 PM
Hawk,

My 40% increase was in reference to the growth in length from completely flaccid to fully pumped; not a permanent increase. Sorry for my misstatement.

T Perry
Title: Re: Tperry1010
Post by: Hawk on March 11, 2009, 12:28:02 AM
Quote from: tperry1010 on March 10, 2009, 07:18:03 PM
Hawk,

My 40% increase was in reference to the growth in length from completely flaccid to fully pumped; not a permanent increase. Sorry for my misstatement.

T Perry

Thanks for clarifying.  I knew something was wrong.

In reference to your question, the percentage of increase from flaccid to pumped up, or to erect cannot be estimated since it varies so much from individual to individual.  In some men flaccid size is close to erect size, others more than double in size between the two states.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hitman on March 11, 2009, 05:08:06 AM
thanks for clearing that up
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: gourdo on March 12, 2009, 01:11:46 AM
hi there, question for those who know such things...I just bought and received the Vitality 3 cylinder VED, and after reading some posts here believe I am using it correctly. I've tried it twice so for with similar results... after pumping to the point of definitely feeling the negative pressure, it's not resulting in anything close to an erection. I'd say 2 on scale of 10 at best.  I pumped a few more times to verge of discomfort but same result. Is this normal? I have no problem getting very hard when aroused, but this contraption doesn't really do the trick in that regard. Am I doing something wrong? Will it possible to still achieve positive results for peyronie's from the VED if I'm not getting erect?  Any feedback or suggestion is much appreciated.

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on March 12, 2009, 08:12:55 AM
Gourdo, Check Oldman's post # 2040. The objective here is not to develop an erection, it is to minimize and hopefully reverse the effects of Peyronies Disease. I have used the 3 cylinder protocol for about 8 months now. The results have been good. I did not do before and after measurements, but qualitatively, my erections are stronger, curvature no worse, perhaps slightly less, length and girth no worse, perhaps slightly better.

The one unexpected benefit that I have received is the ability to go off Flomax. My urine stream is much improved and the side effects of Folmax have disappeared.

I too do not achieve an arousal type erection using the VED, which is fine for me in that I have little trouble achieving an arousal erection. Being somewhat older, it takes a little more effort, but that's part of the fun. ;D

I don't remember who stated this, but I have been using the "milking" technique and find that it seems to help bring more blood into the penis, and makes for an improved result. It takes a little practice, but is worth it to me.
Title: Re: Gourdo - VED's erection
Post by: Hawk on March 12, 2009, 10:10:27 AM
I have used a single cylinder VED for years and i dsagree with some of what Seaside2 seemed to be saying.

The goal of a VED IS to get an erection.  Old Man may have correctly said the goal is not to get an engorged uncomfortable erection or something to that effect but the erection that results should surely at least rise to the level of approaching enough firmness that it would be suitable for penetration.

Gourdo, I would suggest that you hold the negative pressure that you mention and give the VED ample time to slowly draw the blood in.  Release, then each time you repump, the erection should fill a bit more until it eventually gets to at least a level that could sustain intercourse.  At the point you experience any of the following you have pumped too much of an erection: pain, stretched tight skin, dimpling, dark red dots on the surface of the skin, edema or fluid collection under the skin.

The idea of the VED is to hold the pressure until the pressure equalizes by blood SLOWLY flowing into the penis.  Even if you do not have a normal VED erection you could cause problems by pumping too much pressure too fast and not allowing a slow fill of blood.  Bottom line is it is not just the size of the erection that has to be controlled but the speed of the erection.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: seaside2 on March 12, 2009, 12:11:04 PM
Hawk.

I think we are saying the same thing, just in a different manner. My understanding is that having an erection just for the sake of an erection is not the ultimate goal, improving the Peyronies Disease is.

Make sense?
Title: Re: Seaside2
Post by: Hawk on March 12, 2009, 02:48:06 PM
Seaside,

That does make sense, it is just that I read Gourdo's post to say his penis would not even approach a usable erection while in the VED.  It should.

An erection scale sometimes used by sexual dysfunction doctors is:

1 - totally flaccid with no apparent blood fill
2-
3- fuller flaccid hang
4-
5- may accomplish penetration with extreme effort but not erect enough for intercourse (what I call a stuffer)
6- an erection that is just erect enough to have intercourse
7-
8- Solid typical erection
9-
10- the most engorged erection you have ever had. 

Using this scale I would expect VED therapy to get the user to a 6,7,or 8 level

Dr. Mulhall's office uses this scale when regulating the dose of bimix or trimix injection for erections.  The user emails the dose used, the number of the erection, and duration of erection.

PS: I recommend against injections for ED.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: gourdo on March 12, 2009, 09:14:48 PM
thanks hawk and seaside for weighing in on this.  Seaside is correct in that my goal here is not to achieve an erection but to help with my peyronie's. Based on what I've read the VED is supposed to induce an erection, and it doesn't seem to w/ me, based on my limited experience. Maybe this is normal?, I don't know, which is why I'm asking.  My presumption from previous posts is that..a) pump to point of feeling vacuum, b) don't overpump..c) hold for stated time, then repeat cycle. What I'm unclear on is .. ..is an erection to be expected w/ negative pressure If I'm doing everything correctly?  How fast does this typically happen?  Should I be doing something different?  Is an erection needed to achieve desired results?..... what would cause me to not react (erection) like I'm supposed to?  Is my plumbing different? and could this affect how VED works with me?  Lot's of questions I know, but again, any feedback much appreciated.

Title: Re: Gourdo
Post by: Hawk on March 12, 2009, 09:22:16 PM
Gourdo,

Did you read my posts ???

I though I made it very clear that an erection is to be expected.  I am unclear why you are not responding to the vacuum with an erection.  It is the first case I have heard of especially in someone that can get a natural erection.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: gourdo on March 12, 2009, 09:28:34 PM
Hawk I got your names mixed up on last post, sorry,  meant to imply I agreed with what you said.  But either way what I'm really trying to understand is why it's not working like it should w/ me, hence the string of questions.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/protocol
Post by: Old Man on March 13, 2009, 10:20:33 AM
gourdo:

Sorry that you are not having the success that you expected with the Vitality OTC three cylinder model VED. It takes a bit of practice with this unit to become proficient with its use. Just take your time and determine what is going awry for you.

Go to the Child Boards and select the protocol for the three cylinder model VED that is posted there. At the bottom of the page are some suggestions as to how the VED should be used. Do not use the protocol for the VEDs that were home made by several guys on the forum, so use the correct one.

I might suggest that you take a few minutes to be sure that you are assembling the VED correctly. During the first two weeks of the protocol you are to use all three cylinders nested inside each other and than attached to the pump. Be sure that you use plenty of lubricant so that your penis will slip easily up and down in the small A cylinder. This is a key point in using the smallest cylinder. Since it confines ones penis into a very small space, plenty of lube is necessary so be careful to do that. Sometimes it is necessary to start the head portion of the penis into the small cylinder and add vaccum pressure to "pull" the shaft into the cylinder.

Again, practice with the VED until you are thoroughly familiar with how to use it before startaing the protocol. Also, use only enough vacuum pressure to get the desired results. I may have misstated what I meant in an earlier post about erections with the VED. The VED can and will give one of the best erections you ever had by using the restrictor rings to hold it up if you have an ED problem. If you can achieve natural erections you do not need to use the VED, etc.

Note: Overpumping can and will cause further problems for you if too much vacuum is used. Caution is the watchword in VED therapy, so be on the safe side. Another things, in the past some guys were trying to use the restrictor rings while dong the VED exercises. These rings should never, repeat never, be used while doing VED therapy.

Feel free to ask any and all questions about VED usage.

Old Man
Title: Re: OLD Man
Post by: Hawk on March 13, 2009, 10:28:12 AM
Old Man,

Just to clarify this point for Gourdo, would you agree with this statement:

The goal of VED therapy is not an erection for intercourse so NO constriction rings are used.
However use of the VED (especially the large cylinder) should result in an erection while you remain in the cylinder with a vacuum.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: gourdo on March 13, 2009, 12:03:35 PM
thanks both of you for this.  Old Man, I'm doing everything like you say, and just to be clear I'm not using this for any other purpose than to help my Peyronie's, so have no intention of using the rings. I guess I'm unclear in that you state "use only enough vacuum pressure to get the desired results", and also "Caution is the watchword in VED therapy, so be on the safe side. So if I'm not getting the desired results at a "cautious" level should I try pushing the envelope a bit? How do I know when I've reached an appropriate/safe level?  Also, how long should it take to achieve erection a this level? I've been holding it only for 10 seconds per your instructions. Maybe I need to wait a bit?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on March 13, 2009, 08:00:51 PM
Hawk:

You have my permission to alter/modify my post in any manner you deem necessary to clear up any discrepancy that might confuse anyone.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on March 13, 2009, 08:10:54 PM
gourdo:

What I mean by being on the safe side is not to use too high a vacuum pressure while doing the Peyronies Disease therapy. Pausing between pumps will allow your penis to expand better as the blood is being pulled into the erectile chambers. Pumping too rapidly won't allow proper time for the blood to flow in. Also, too fast pumping can cause you to overpump without realizing it until you have pain or discomfort which you do not want to do causing more damage to your penis.

By using the pump, pause, release and pump again procedure, you will allow your penis to fully engorge with blood easier. You will know after several cycles of pumping, releasing and pumping again when you have reached a comfortable level of vacuum. It takes practice sessions to fully get the hang of the proper procedure, so practice until you have mastered the procedure that works best for you.

Hope this helps, if not, feel free to ask more questions.

Old Man
Title: VED's, techniques for starting out
Post by: Angus on March 13, 2009, 08:43:01 PM

   It is difficult to describe with the written word sometimes about how a mechanical object works or is to be used. Without pictures or a visual reference we can only describe as best we can how to use a VED, so I'm chiming in with my two cents.
   The times described in the protocol are a guideline on how long to hold an erection in the VED once the erection has been achieved. A natural erection is gained by several things taking place... arousal then the opening of blood vessels that allows the penis to engorge. For the majority of men there is nothing arousing about inserting ones penis into a VED tube, so we are relying upon a vacuum inside the tube to pull blood in to the penis. This is by-passing mother natures way of making an erection and pulling blood through the normally (un-aroused) closed blood vessels. At the beginning of a session there needs to be a separate time of preparation to warm up the penis, VED tube, lubricant and so on. One should expect to apply lube, insert into the tube making sure the seal is good near the penis base, then apply a few pumps to get vacuum in the tube, and then wait for the body to react to the vacuum and let blood flow in to the penis. This can take many pump-wait 10 seconds-release cycles before the blood vessels react to the mild vacuum and allow blood into the penis without arousal. The danger is in trying to pump up to unbelievable vacuum levels to "speed up" the VED erection process, and this will lead to disaster. You will not trick your body in to a faster VED erection; you will only cause pain, bruising and maybe worse. Some days it may take 10 minutes or more of these prepatory vacuum-release cycles before you body reacts to the VED vacuum. The first few cycles with a VED and noting NO change in a flaccid penis is normal and to be expected. The time spent in prepatory pump-release cycles may go up with the mans age.
   After time has been taken to gently warm things up as described, and you are making sure you have a good seal at the base of the penis, an erection will happen inside the VED. Then and only then should you begin the cycles described within the protocol. If you come home from work and begin the VED protocol cold, not very many men will get an erection the first, second or third pump-release cycle. Tim has suggested warm baths a while back. A warm shower would work as well. I will say this also: if you are stressed out over work or for what ever reason and begin VED therapy, the stress will work against erection production whether it's a VED vacuum erection or natural. Keep this in mind and try to schedule your VED sessions for a time of day that is more relaxed.
   Use this warm-up suggestion with patience. Give your body time to react to the vacuum inside the VED tube. When you body is ready, it will produce an erection inside the VED that would win awards.
   
Title: VED Warmup
Post by: ComeBacKid on March 13, 2009, 09:44:20 PM
Gourdo,

When you go to use the ved if you dont get in the shower or do a quick wrap with a warm washcloth, which is to messy to me, because then the water mixes with the lube and is icky.  If you don't do this, just pump an erection and don't get the full erection, do a half erection twice to get warmed up.  This will get your penis used to the pump, the longer your on the pump you won't need to do this as much. 

Comebackid
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on March 14, 2009, 09:09:00 AM
It takes me a while to get to full erection. I do not like to use that term even, for it is not "an erection" as much as it is "my penis finally stretched out as much as it can and is full of blood". I know, that sounds the same, but there is a difference, and in fact, for me and others posting here, getting turned on a bit and having a "real" erection often makes it impossible to use the narrow tube.

That said, it takes me a while to get to where I want to go. I find that (I use a gauge) if I pump to an arbitrary pressure (say, negative 150 mm Hg pressure) immediately, even if I have a good seal, my penis is not as long as it will be eventually. So, I pump up to a fairly comfortable level of tension, hold it for a while, perhaps "milking" the pump a bit (tugging it away from the body to encourage the entry of blood), and then I release. It helps ME a lot to have taken a warm bath or shower to relax the penis maximally - this would be a lot harder if I came in from playing naked in the snow and slapped the VED on!

After about 5-10 repeated bouts of applying a vacuum and releasing, as described above, my penis is definitely fuller and better stretched out, and now, the same amount of vacuum will lead to me finally stretching out to a final maximum length in the narrow chamber. I then hold it at a pretty taut pressure for up to 3 minutes, and then release.

I have found that, when I am trying the larger cylinder, it is really helpful to go through the above described process to get "pumped up". I can then put on the bigger cylinder and pump up again, getting a better seal (and less pull-up of scrotum) than if I had started with the big one cold.

This is what works for me.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bassman on March 16, 2009, 10:37:49 AM
Guys,

What do you think of this website:  http://www.performancemedicalcenters.org/index.html   and what do you think their methodology is ?

Bassman
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on March 17, 2009, 11:29:15 PM
It seems their methodology is called making money. Not sure how good their product is though. Seemed slick - but I only looked for less than one minute.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: youngling on March 17, 2009, 11:32:41 PM
Hello all,

It has been a while since my last posts.  Just a reminder. I am now 21.  Although did not suffer from peyroines I had a 45 degree ventral bend that was labeled congenital, although I feel strongly that i suffered an acute fracture as a child during what I remember as a very painful incident that I kept from my parents.

Regardless, there were NO plaques and no peyroines diagnosis.  In september of 2007, I had a modified Nesbit procedure.  4 Permanent Sutures (which are still quite noticeable) were placed into the top of my penis thus pulling up my bend to what was about 0 degrees at the time.  Since then, I have regained some of my bend and am now at approximately 10-15 degrees downward.  Much better but still disheartening after all i went through.

So after some consult with my Urologist, who said that resurgery should NOT be an option, I asked if VED therapy can help me regain some straightness.  He said he was confident that it could help me as a therapeutic instrument (ie: yes it would help).

So I am now asking which VED I should go with.  Note that I will have to pay all of it myself and although the $500 plus SomaErect looks great, it is quite a bit more than I can afford at the moment.

I ran into this link, can anyone tell me what they think?    http://www.amazon.com/Response-Vacuum-Therapy-System-Each/dp/B000PGWAF2/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&m=A1PUHJHTKL9BPW&s=generic&qid=1237337111&sr=1-11 (http://www.amazon.com/Response-Vacuum-Therapy-System-Each/dp/B000PGWAF2/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&m=A1PUHJHTKL9BPW&s=generic&qid=1237337111&sr=1-11)

The issue with me is that with the sutures still palpable and the penis not actually straight, i have two issues that i hope to one day defeat.  While the suture palpability seems like an obstacle I may never overcome, the straightness issues seems to have some promise with VED therapy.  I would really appreciate any input here.  Thanks,  Mike
Title: Re: youngling
Post by: Hawk on March 18, 2009, 12:08:55 AM
youngling,

I am concerned about VED use on a Nesbit procedure.  I would fear that it could actually apply forces that could restore the pre-surgery curve since the elements of the curve are still there but it is only restrained by some sutures.

By all means do not use it until completely healed and use only low pressure if you decide to take a chance, which is what I think you are doing. Also monitor curve, sensation, etc very closely so you will catcht the first signs on a negative changes.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LWillisjr on March 18, 2009, 11:25:58 AM
Youngling,
Since you say the curve is slight, is your concern from the way it looks, or does it make sex uncomfortable? I know as men we all get hung up on the size and way our erection looks (me included). But I would be careful about trying to do anything about a cosmetic change at this point.

I had surgery 9 months ago, was straight afterwards but once healed ended up with a slight 10 degree curve now. I am thrilled with this. Would much rather have the 10 degree curve than the 70 degree curve I once had.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Believer on March 20, 2009, 05:17:19 PM
Recently some of you were debating whether the VED delivers oxygen rich blood to the penis. One thing that surely delivers oxygen rich blood is a normal erection, for those of us who are fortunate to attain one.

I would like to know what you guys think about inducing erections several times a day (by watching porn or foreplay with partner) while avoiding ejaculation?

What do you think about the safety of this practice, given the fact that it often results in "blue balls" ?

Believer
Title: Re: Inducing Erections
Post by: Hawk on March 20, 2009, 08:54:10 PM
Inducing erections does not cause "blue balls" which is nothing more than slang for some congestion of fluid/blood in the prostate and testicle region.  Every healthy male gets multiple erections nightly with only positive effects.  "Blue Balls" is caused by prolonged erection.  These are erections that are usually prolonged because of depriving oneself of a climax while continuing psychological or physical stimulation.  These prolonged erections actually deprive the penis of oxygen.

If the goal is to oxygenate the penis, than several brief erections (lasting 5 - 20 min) would be the solution.  The longer a penis is erect the more depleted the oxygen becomes.  The goal is to flush the penis with fresh oxygen rich blood (thus pump and release with the VED).  This is what healthy men get naturally during the night to maintain penile health.  A man that can get erections, can usually do this without something as involved as watching porn or involving another party in what could be an impractical and frustrating process of foreplay without climax.

PS: I hope you are not disappointed that you canNOT tell your girlfriend that the world's leading Peyronies Disease forum recommends you watch porn and have her fondle you all day as the premier treatment for Peyronies Disease. :)

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on March 21, 2009, 08:40:49 AM
For me, it was when I discovered the forum and the VED, that I was able to find a healthier way to induce an erection that was not dependent on my sexuality. That is, by getting it full of healthy blood and stretching out miniscule fibers that were trying to contract and form scar, I was able to resist that contraction and to a degree reverse some pre-existing contraction (about ten degrees, to be precise). And then my sexuality became healthier emotionally. Finally I had a way to fight Peyronie's that did not hyper-sexualize me, keep me looking at porn just to be hard for a while (indeed, like the VED, not ending in ejaculation either). Porn and sex addiction are one unfortunate by-product of this disease sometimes. Unlike many young men who cry out that their sex lives are over, my response to getting this at a young age was to say "I am going into overdrive to save my dick, or at least get laid as often as I can before it goes". But having sex as much as possible comes at a cost - I thank God I never got an STD or fatal illness, because I took a lot of risks.

It took me literally years to find a healthier balance and way to deal with this. By doing that, my marriage and relationship are on much firmer ground, and my place on the planet seems much better.

Tim
Title: Re: Tim
Post by: ComeBacKid on March 21, 2009, 03:39:02 PM
Tim,

I couldn't agree with you more!  Resorting to porn to get erections and keep your penis hard and stretched out can come with unwanted consequences and a dependency on pornography.  One guy on the forum told me " If I were you I'd go out and do as many women as possible!"  My constant thinking and worrying about my penis has worn me out over the past decade.  I've spent to much time isolated and often times wanted to withdraw and just do nothing or hang out with nobody cause I felt like I was constantly obsessing over my penis( especially since I lost significant size).  The pentox has given me a lot of hope and restored size to my flaccid state and given me better erections.  My flaccid size doesnt feel tiny anymore and this has allowed me to relax and not want to withdraw from society anymore. For me I feel that disease has effected me in so many different ways its almost impossible to examine how I would of turned out had I never gotten this.  Pornography is not really a healthy way to deal with getting stimulation, it can be addictive and make one feel depleted.  Some will seek this out just to get stimulation and "get erections" others might seek this out cause they feel their penis is so damaged and messed up that they feel worthless and that no woman will want them and their damaged goods.  One thing is for sure this disease will chew you up and spit you out, especially mentally!  It takes a mentally tough person to combat, the weak will break down and lose it.  For me pentox has given me a lot of hope and keeps me going, with the instant improvements I saw, but by no way a cure.  My penis still does bend, and still does feel hardened in some areas. For me I'll keep taking the pentox for as long as possible to gain anything I can and prevent further disease progression.  Both the pump and pentox have worked for me, if your totally healthy I'd recomend everyone get on these two things and they might help you and turn around a poor mental situation for you!

Comebackid
Title: Re: Comebackid - cylinder usage
Post by: ggg953 on March 24, 2009, 06:14:09 PM
Come Back Kid, I wanted to ask you about your cylinder usage: Were you working with old man or winging it? Also, I hate the C as well it seems to suck in parts of my anatomy down there like veins and crap. Very difficult to work with. Any ideas?
Title: Re: cylinder usage
Post by: Ptolemy on March 24, 2009, 09:16:36 PM
Quote from: ComeBacKid on March 23, 2009, 10:38:43 PM
Are you using the three cylinder protocol from soma correct?  I never really used the biggest cylinder, it was just almost to big.  The A cylinder was to tight, but I liked working with the B cylinder, always got a good solid stretch from this one.  Used the A cylinder only a couple of times, then just stopped using it and substituted the B cylinder anywhere it called for the C.  I still saw size gain and bigger thick erections.

Comebackid

If you substitute the B cylinder when the protocol calls for the C cylinder and have used the A cylinder only a couple of times I assume that you are only on the B cylinder.

Don't most here believe the 3 cylinder protocol is the best way to go? Clearly I don't like using the A and C cylinders but do so thinking this is the best approach.
Title: Re: cylinder usage
Post by: Iceman on March 24, 2009, 09:40:00 PM
i think the largest cylinder was stretching the scar sideways and creating more of a bend - i was using the largest cylinder for 3 weeks and i was having pain each day - since stopping this and using the smallest cylinder the pain has stopped  - pain is critical and I find that I cannot tolerate this - it affects allfacets of my life - so i really dont care about folowing the protocol if its going to leave me in pain - i emailed oldman and he said this was fine - i may however compromise and use the middle cylinder.... its all to bloody hard anyway - ........just gotta do what is best Ive been pumping for 12 months now and i reckon its done sweet f**k all
Title: Re: cylinder usage
Post by: ComeBacKid on March 25, 2009, 01:07:55 AM
I found exactly what iceman is saying to be true.  The c cylinder is just to big and wide and my penis would bend inside of it.  I loved working with the B cylinder, and the a cylinder was tight, its meant to be tight for a reason, to give you a length wise stretch.  The b cylinder really gave me a good girth stretch.  I never used the c cylinder but once and saw decent size gains, its not mandatory for improvement, but its part of the protocol.  If your having pain or can't fill the a tube and your penis is bending in it, i'd recommend stopping it and just using the b cylinder where it calls for c.  There is no right or wrong answer, each mans make up is different, so you have to use your own judgement. 

Comebackid
Title: Re: cylinder usage
Post by: Tim468 on March 25, 2009, 06:54:36 AM
I now use only an "A" cylinder with occasional use of a C cylinder. I use tubes that are sized a 1/4 inch difference each (I think - it's been so long!). But my C cylinder works best for me because it has the silicone sleeve that makes for a better fit at the base. Without it, even the B cylinder sucks up scrotum too much for comfort.

Tim
Title: Re: VED success rate
Post by: newguy on March 27, 2009, 02:03:15 AM
Of course, this would just be an estimate, but out of all of those on the forum seriously dedicating themselves to the VED over a period of time (1 year+) how many people have actually seen marked benefits? Like all peyronies treatments it seems irritatingly hard to ascertain what works for who and why. It's tremendously positive that some appear to have come on leaps and bounds due to use of the VED, but somewhat perplexing and confusing that others haven't. I long for the day when we have a greater understanding of this disease and exactly why we see the results that we do.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tired on March 27, 2009, 11:15:17 AM
Along with the last question about who has improved, I would like to know how many minutes each day they used the ved per session.Thanks
Title: VED success
Post by: Angus on March 27, 2009, 11:26:20 AM
A "success stories" thread was started quite some time ago in hopes that it would fill with posts about individual success stories so this information would be easy to find and read. For whatever reason, this didn't happen... a few posts about success were posted but the thread started to turn in to a discussion, which defeats the purpose of the thread. This means that who had what success with whatever technique is really hard to find in the forum. It is hard to say how many actually have had success with the VED and straightening. I am one, Old Man is another, and there are posts by others having success in the VED thread but considering the size of the forum, much searching and reading must be done to find them.
Something that is apparent about VED therapy is treatment method and control... there is none, really. The Protocol can be posted, instructions, hints and tips can be given to men, but in the end, each man uses the VED in a way that he hopes is correct after reading the Protocol and making decisions.
    The written word is the only instruction there is on VED therapy for Peyronies control. It is VERY hard to convey to some individuals how to use the 3-tube VED system properly, consistently and without causing problems. We have no idea exactly how consistently an individual uses his VED, or the exact technique that individual uses with the VED. If we were assured that each man used the VED in exactly the same recommended way, there would be at least a base line of control information to assume, but that is not the case. A man may post that he used the VED every day for six months with no change in his curve, but no one knows exactly how he actually USED the VED. Myself, Old Man and some others post success with the VED, yet others post that after VED use nothing changed. I personally believe that if VED users used the VED in the manner described by the successful users that more improvement would take place, but there is no way to control that; recommendations can be made, but that is all.
    We have tried to get success documented in that thread, but for whatever reasons, that didn't work. So if one chooses to use the VED for Peyronies, he must charge forward and use the VED with consistency and dedication while following the written guidelines. Many are put off when they read that VED therapy took a year or longer to work. Well, I'm sorry, but there is NO one week or one month therapy for this rediculous Peyronies condition. Until we get more men dedicated to the therapy and sticking with it for the recommended time, the documentation for success will probably remain limited.
   
   
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: kenny82 on March 28, 2009, 07:44:55 PM
hi,

Is here anyone who could give me some tips on how to a get a VED. I live in Germany, so it's not possible to get it from the site fizz.com or something that has been mentioned here couple of times.
I guess its possible to get one from your doctor, but who knows what quality etc. it is. Besides i wouldnt get one for ED.

I started to think that maybe VED could help me with my condition, and it cant do more than failing, so y not try.
Anybody here who knows a good source u can reach from europe.

Thanks
Kenny
Title: VED's / Europe
Post by: Angus on March 28, 2009, 08:03:03 PM
This web site in Europe was mentioned a while back on the forum, but I have no personal experience with them and I don't know of anyone here who has purchased from them. At least it would be a start for you, kenny82. Their "products" page shows "being updated" but there is a phone number you can call. They show that they sell the Soma Correct 3 tube VED which has been recommended for and used by men on this forum. This 3 tube VED could be used with the 3 Tube Protocol that is referred to on this forum.

Again, I have no experience with this web site so I can't make a personal recommendation to use them, but it's a start for you. Others with more experience with purchasing a VED in Europe might post alternative places to get a VED in Europe.

http://www.imedicare.eu/index.html
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tired on March 31, 2009, 01:00:49 PM
I was just wondering if a person should try and use the ved twice a day or is once for 10 to 15 minutes enough? If used twice a day should it be counted as 2 sessions or one. Thanks for any replies
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: ocelot556 on March 31, 2009, 01:16:06 PM
Okay! I just jumped in and bought a VED. Pentox was working well for a while but even taking 2 a day, I can still feel inflammation and am convinced another plaque is forming. I'd like to echo the question that tired posed:

If the therapy calls for 10-15 minutes a day, does using it twice mean that you use the VED for 20-30 minutes total in the day? Or each time do you simply use the device for 5-10 minutes instead?

And aside from Angus and Old Man, who's stories are very encouraging and frankly the reason I spent 220 dollars on a hope, I wanted to know if there were any other posters who experienced results with the VED. Lurking around the improvement forum I don't see many other regular posters who make that claim.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices; Success
Post by: Mick on March 31, 2009, 01:56:08 PM
Ocelot:

   There are many success stories in this thread.  Read mine in the Child boards.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on March 31, 2009, 02:49:19 PM
ocelot

You can read my entire story under the Our Histories thread. My peyronies started in 1995. At the time the doctor put me on Potaba and Vitiamin E 400IU 3 times a day.
I progressively got worse with all the side effects and lost almost 1 1/2 inches in length. Was prescribed a VED October 2006 after heart stents. Used it all wrong and caused a bruise that took weeks to heal. After a failed implant October 2007 I found this forum and Old Man.

I started the exercise advised by Old Man that was modified for the single cylinder I already had. In a few weeks I noticed length coming back. After a year I had gained almost 3/4 of an inch back.  ;D

Because of all my problems I had a successful implant October last year. The doctor said to use the VED until the day before surgery for a better outcome.
Now I have gained back the 1/2 inch lost during surgery and gaining on the loss to peyronies.

I do not use the VED with the implant. I am sure my better than expected outcome is from the proper VED exercise. I recommend it whole heartily.

I did the routine about 15 minutes once a day. If you can fit it in twice a day would be even better.

Any questions just ask. Old Man was a great help and his wise counsel is priceless.

Jackp
Title: Re: Ocelot
Post by: ComeBacKid on March 31, 2009, 04:20:51 PM
Ocelot,

The true protocl calls for ten reps, holding 10-15 seconds each time, then letting your penis go completely flaccid and re-pumping.  I held for 30 seconds and did about 15 reps each time.  You can pump twice a day, but the original protocol calls for just once a day.  There haven't been many studies done on the VED or its protocols.  Some on here have come up with their own protocols or just used one tube, rather than the 3 cylinder system.  Theres a lot of options, the choice is yours!

Comebackid
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tired on March 31, 2009, 04:54:34 PM
thanks OLD MAN for your help
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Bongo on March 31, 2009, 04:55:35 PM
Angus,

I am thinking about buying the SOMA from that particular website. With a weak British pound, it will most likely not be much more expensive than buying the OTC Vitality from Fitzz.com (they charge about $100 for mailing it to Europe).

Are the two devices comparable? Which one would you (anyone here) choose?

Also, is a manually operated pump more advisable than one with a battery powered engine?

Just started my "heat treatment" again - wow, what a relief. It makes some of the tension go away.
Title: Bongo... VED's
Post by: Angus on April 01, 2009, 02:15:09 AM

    Both of the 3 tube VED's would be a good choice. You'll have to price them both then make your choice. I have not owned an electrically operated pump, only a manual one. With the manual pump I feel like I'm always in control, and able to make very small adjustments to the vacuum by partially compressing the pump bulb just a little bit. I suppose this is possible by using the on/off button on the electric model. The two devices are comparable because they are both a 3 tube design which isn't crucial but I believe beneficial to the protocols use.
    When you begin use ask questions here if you feel uncomfortable with any aspect of the protocol and the VED. Anyone starting VED therapy should spend much time reading this entire thread to really wrap their head around the procedure and what is taking place. I know that would take a LOT of time, but I feel it should be done as knowledge of what you are doing and how a VED behaves would increase ones odds of having success with this treatment. There are LOTS of posts about procedure that should be sought out and read before using the VED for Peyronies. So make your choice, get the VED, read everything here you can on VED use then begin. Your success will be linked to how dedicated you are to consistent use of the VED and following guidelines that have brought some men relief. This is not a guarantee that the VED will work for you... but by following the guidelines men have posted who have used a VED for years will greatly increase your odds of getting improvement.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tperry1010 on April 05, 2009, 12:05:54 PM
ComeBackKid;

I read your post, and was wondering if you were one of the"success stories"...especially regarding curvature.

I have just started using the VED, and have considered increasing the time for engorgement and the # of cycles per session. It would require very little more time, as 10 times 10 seconds with a 5 second rest between is still only 150 seconds or 2-1/2 minutes.

The actual time consuming part is the prep; assembly, all the lube, and then cleanup afterwards. My thought was if you spend 10-15 minutes with all that, why not spend an extra minute with your penis engorged and stretched.

Any thoughts from anybody,

Thanks,

tperry1010
Title: Re: Tperry
Post by: ComeBacKid on April 06, 2009, 01:10:30 AM
Tperry,

Your theory is what I thought as well, why not spend a little more time on each erection pumped?  An extra 15 seconds or so, why not?  When I used the VED it never really seemed to help my curve, just size really, in fact at one point i thought it might of made my curve slightly worse, but my overall penis was bigger.  I had peyronies for a long time before starting though and my tissues were probably somewhat calcified.  I threw in pentox and wained off of the VED eventually and saw significant improvement with the pentox.  My theory was that first you need to soften the tissues if they are well advanced with some pentox or something that will stop the inflammation and hardening, then the stretching will come along easier.  Just a theory though, I don't have an answer for you, but doing nothing probably won't make you better either.  Pentox seems to be showing some success results for members and for Dr. Lue and the VED seems to help bring back lost size.  When I told Dr. Mulhall that he said any size gain from VED is not permanent but I'm not sure thats true.  When I brought up VED at my other urologist they laughed me out of the examining room and said that the pump is a sex toy, and it won't work, just another scam by people praying on us desperate folks.

Comebackid

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Michaelscott on April 06, 2009, 07:55:54 PM
From what I've read from posts on the forum gains in length from VED are temporary. Is this case the same for decreases in curvature?
Title: Curvature return?
Post by: Angus on April 06, 2009, 11:50:39 PM
Gains in length can be maintained by continuing to use the VED in a maintenance role (as posted many times in the past). No one has ever posted that a curvature returned after using the VED to reduce the curve. Continuing to use the VED as a maintenance method keeps tissues stretched and encourages blood flow to the places where it needs to go.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hitman on April 16, 2009, 11:35:12 AM
just an update. week 7 of therapy with cylinder C. this is the most awkward of all cylinders I have to admit.
Title: Re: VED's - Tperry
Post by: shrout on April 19, 2009, 05:37:19 AM
Last week I got to just about as far as I think you can go with urologists in the UK.. I got to see a Mr.Christopher (Christopher is his surname -- I don't know his first name -- tried Googling for it but no luck) at University Collegue Hospital in London... probably the 5th or 6th uro I've seen, and certainly the most clued up re. Peyronies.
Amongst the things we discussed was the VED. He said it gave roughly a 30% chance of some significant improvement, the mechanism being that with constant regular stretching the brain eventually gets the idea that it has to create some extra tissue around the scar to ease/prevent stress on the body caused by the stretching. That extra tissue is normal healthy tissue.  I think I've paraphrased him correctly.
But his required protocol was quite different to the accepted one given here, or in the SomaCorrect manual.  It consists of two 30 minute sessions per day (morning & evening), each consisting of six 5 minute pump and holds (1 minute to pump up, 4 minutes hold, six simes over ). To me this seems far more likely to achieve success than the accepted 10 x 10 second protocol I used for 6 months, to no effect whatsoever. This is 1 min 40 seconds per day fully engorged and stretched versus 48 mins with Mr. Christopher's regime ( which I am going to try to follow, although I think I may have difficulty fitting in a morning session every day).  It has always puzzled me how such as tiny amount of daily stretching can be recommended as the most likely regime to effect improvement for Peyronies, and this new advice from Mr. Christopher has confirmed my doubts.
A word of warning to you though TPerry, or anyone starting out with the VED and thinking of adopting such a rigorous regime .. as Old Man and Angus always say,  if there is any pain, stop and wait until it has completely gone before resuming. And always resist the temptation to apply that extra bit of pressure. Build up slowly into any new regime or protocol. Always read OM & Angus, but my advice to you FWIW is to be skeptical of "accepted" protocols. Take a cautious approach, but ultimately you have to find out find out what works for you.  Good luck.

(as an aside, Mr.C also said that traction was no better than VED, and less practical because it needs to be worn for 12 hrs a day to stand any chance of being effective. Why so much longer than VED? - because it is being applied to a flaccid penis as against an erect one with VED.  Why that should make a difference he didn't explain. He also said that no oral medication was of any use for Peyronies once it has reached the stable phase. I'm guessing this is common knowledge on this forum. The only black mark against him was he'd never heard of Xiaflex.  None of the uros I've seen had heard of it.. but they were all just Brits, so I guess I'll have to let them off.  :o)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on April 19, 2009, 12:43:03 PM
Good work Shrout!

Persistence in finding someone with whom you can work seems to have paid off.

You could give him a copy of the case reports by Lue (I think) that showed Pentox being of benefit after the fact. I will look for the citation and forward it to you. In one case they continued to see improvement for a whole year.

Tim
Title: Re: Shrout
Post by: ComeBacKid on April 19, 2009, 01:33:22 PM
For what its worth, I concur with your doctor that you need to hold the stretch longer than the normal soma protocol.  It worked for me to gain size.  But you need to start out light and just do the protocol, and build up to a length of time to hold each erection for. 

Comebackid
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: tperry1010 on April 20, 2009, 12:11:15 PM
Wow Shrout,

That's a big difference from what is recommended on this site. It does make since, as long as you are cautious, and work your way up to the recommended time. I wonder what Old man and some of the other regular VED guys feel about a 30 fold increase. I haven't gone back to see how the 26 week protocol was developed, but I'm sure someone can enlighten us.

I might try doubling or tripling the standard 100 second protocol per day for now.

Thanks,

TPerry
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on April 20, 2009, 12:26:15 PM
From catching up, and then participating, in many threads about use of the VED, this has always been a topic of discussion. No randomized study has been done, so no one can say for sure what is "best".

For some, "too long" of a time seems to be associated with numbness, tingling and apparent trauma. For others, "too short" of a time seems to be associated with negligible results.

For me, I started out brief and low pressures, but have worked my way up to a longer time between releases, usually doing it for about a total of 20 minutes twice a day. IT is really hard for me to make more time than that. A discreetly placed (sort of) all day stretcher seemed to cause more negative than positive results here.

Tim
Title: which VED?
Post by: cowboyfood on April 23, 2009, 05:31:29 PM
All,

any suggestions would be appreciated.

I'd like to get a VED to exercise my penis without having to resort to sex or porn, so per the suggestion of others I want to get a VED to do this.

As far as my shape goes, I only have a slight bend upwards at the end of my penis...it does not really curve up or down or sidways;
just curves up about 15 - 20 degrees towards the end.

I found the soma products, and I think the vitality may work:
http://www.augustams.com/vitality.cfm

but, it looks like some on the board use the somaerectsf:
http://www.augustams.com/somaerectstf.cfm

and, it looks like the somaerectsf is also available for a discount at:
http://www.vedsystems.com/prescription/soma-erect-stf.php

I have no appreciation for which one to purchase...I'd be happy with the vitality if that's the right one.

any advice?

cowboyfood
Title: VED's, cowboyfood
Post by: Angus on April 23, 2009, 10:53:09 PM
You want a 3 tube VED system like the somaerect for the protocol to work properly. The prices in your links are high. If you search back through this thread, there is a link to a supplier at a MUCH better price than what your links show. Your last link shows a 199.00 price, but read the ad carefully... it states this is your out of pocket price after 80% insurance kicks in and pays the balance. Search down through this thread... you can find a better deal than that.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on April 23, 2009, 11:05:55 PM
I know there is a progress thread, but not many people have actually posted in there. Aside from the couple of VED stalwart here, have many other members actually experienced much improvement from the VED in terms of reduced curvature?  I did read that for a few people it reduced pain, and from a common sense point of view for those in early stages it must help and it promotes bloodflow and full erections. For those with a stable condition, I cannot see how it can hurt, and in the cases of a few it has been a revelation. I suppose it's the inconsistency that irks me. Hence, why I think the only true appraoch is one that touches on various bases (oral, exercise, ved, diet, maybe traction*)


*As I had a bad experience with traction, and have since read the same of others, I'm a little wary of it. I honestly do that that it can be of significant help to people, but I also see that there is a lot of publicity behind the method, even amongst those who in the urology community, and I haven't heard a peep about problems, or issue with traction. That doesn't reflect the reality of what I have read from a few people here, and elsewhere on the net.
Title: Re: General Comments (that won't fit under any of our other topics)
Post by: LWillisjr on April 24, 2009, 07:30:23 AM
Quote from: newguy on April 23, 2009, 02:57:12 PM
Les - This pretty much mirrors my view of it. My only other thought was that for those with a semi erect curve, it would probably be an ideal time to begin traction or VED, as if they are able to tip the balance in a meaningful way at this stage, maybe it can make a big difference.


In this case I think traction might be better as I would think that you would want to keep that tissue stretched for a longer period of time. Or at least as long as you can could wear it on a daily basis.
Title: Re: General Comments (that won't fit under any of our other topics)
Post by: Starting2looseHope on April 24, 2009, 10:18:45 AM
So where can i get a VED that is doctor approved. Not a single doctor has mentioned this device yet. Are doctors up to date on it?
Title: Re: General Comments (that won't fit under any of our other topics)
Post by: cowboyfood on April 24, 2009, 10:53:53 AM
Several board members suggested the following:

http://www.fitzz.com/Vitality-Plus-Three-Cylinder-Vacuum-Therapy-System--Recommended-for-Peyronies-Therapy_p_503-1983.html

I checked out the web site last night, and it never asked for a prescription...I'm going to call in my order today.

plus!!  you'll get a nice discount if you put "TEAM" in the promo code section;

the ved plus lube plus discount came out to $210.00

Cowboyfood
Title: Re: General Comments (that won't fit under any of our other topics)
Post by: cowboyfood on April 24, 2009, 10:55:50 AM
also, the board members strongly suggest a manual pump, from what I've read.
Title: Re: General Comments (that won't fit under any of our other topics)
Post by: Jackieo on April 24, 2009, 02:23:49 PM
I, too, was shopping the internet and appreciated your post regarding the FitzzAM1000P Vitality Plus Three.  In fact, I placed an order using the code "TEAM" and gained a $23.00 Discount (thank you!) and free 3-day shipping.  Great news....now I am eagerly awaiting my new friend  :).
Title: Re: General Comments (that won't fit under any of our other topics)
Post by: cowboyfood on April 24, 2009, 08:51:12 PM
me too, ved arrives next week, I same shop.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: cowboyfood on April 25, 2009, 03:39:26 PM
All,

Thanks for the "ton" of information in this thread.  My ved arrives soon. 

What should my expectations be the first several times I use the ved?

From what I gather from the posts,  it will take several times to get the hang of it and get my penis filled, as oppossed to "erect"...which I'm still not totally clear on.

Any comments appreciated. 

Cowboyfood

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on April 25, 2009, 06:58:17 PM
Cowboyfood

The first thing is not to get in a hurry. Find a quiet place and just relax.

You may find getting a seal difficult at first. Some trim the pubic hair some shave around the penis. Do not buy the expensive gels go to Walmart and buy the store brand for about $2. Works just as well.

Do not expect over night miracles. It took several weeks for me to start gaining back my size.

The most important thing is not to pump to the point of pain or discomfort.

Follow the protocol and you will have good results.

Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Pete28 on April 26, 2009, 11:20:33 AM
Everytime I get in this VED i come back totally numb and cant get spontaneous erection for 1-2 days.

Now i have performed it two times five minutes and very very MODERATE pressure (without any rushing, pain or real discomfort and with a lot of deflating) in a pump WITH a gauge and again the numbness and weakness after using it.

I think VED works fine for 95% of the guys. But for 5% it doesnt work and is even very potentially dangerous.
If you just happened to have a penis that is really allergic for the pressure, you can get very 'weak' from it and maybe damage the tissue (permanently). Even at very moderate pressure, i am sure as i can feel it.

I think it's something of which everyone should be able to decide to use it or not, but i dont think its responsible that doctors describe it as 'standard therapy'. There is far too little research about the potential side effects.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on April 27, 2009, 10:28:25 AM
Pete,

I had several questions for you.

1) What pressures do you use?
2) How long do you go before releasing the pressure?
3) How much total time have you spent doing this?
4) What do you use for lubricant?
5) Have you had any sort of psychogenic ED before (ie could not get it up under stress at any time)?

If the answers to all those are fairly innocuous, then I would think that you are correct in saying that not all can use the VED. We have had others here before with troubles (though not this specific trouble), but many have been worked out by making adjustments.

A couple of thoughts. If you have a tight or hard edge to the cylinder, it might be cutting in to you at the belly where it comes up against you. It might be trapping or impinging on the nerve at that point. A silicone seal might reduce that and allow you to derive some benefit anyway.

If that were the case, it is also true that a traction device could do the same thing. It might be worth discussing with a urologist who has used the VED for vasculogenic impotence (ie diabetes). In those patients, about 95% can use it successfully (to get a serviceable erection - they are not trying to fix Peyronie's). Presumably for 5% it does not work, although I am not sure what the complaints were that made them give up.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Pete28 on April 27, 2009, 11:51:05 AM
Quote from: Tim468 on April 27, 2009, 10:28:25 AM
Pete,

I had several questions for you.

1) What pressures do you use?
I cannot tell exactly. I cannot see this on the machien. It's an Osbon Erecaid system.
Quote2)How long do you go before releasing the pressure?
three - four max five pumps
Quote3) How much total time have you spent doing this?
In total: 1 hour. But the first time i had two sessions of half an hour, with pauze in between.
Quote4) What do you use for lubricant?
A tube that was packed with the VED
Quote5) Have you had any sort of psychogenic ED before (ie could not get it up under stress at any time)?
Probably every guy has somewhere in his life ... So this could well be the case.


QuoteIf that were the case, it is also true that a traction device could do the same thing. It might be worth discussing with a urologist who has used the VED for vasculogenic impotence (ie diabetes). In those patients, about 95% can use it successfully (to get a serviceable erection - they are not trying to fix Peyronie's). Presumably for 5% it does not work, although I am not sure what the complaints were that made them give up.


Talking about vasculogenic impotence. If you can no longer can have sponteneous erection, of course the VED is great stuff. But think of this: you can have spontaneous erections and for example have minor nerve damage or venous leak. If you put pressure on the already not well functioning nerves or veins, it's not unlogical this could make matters a lot worse. I've received my VED presciption without total examination of my penis.
I've also read somewhere a guy who fell of a roof used the VED for his 100% ED (no commercial site) who discouraged to use a VED unless you have 100% ED, because the VED can actually aggrevate minor venous leak that was already there (injury to an injury). With other words: a guy who doesnt need a confidence ring can become a guy who needs one after using a VED;
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on April 27, 2009, 04:34:39 PM
Well Pete,

Don't know what to say. Your negative results are certainly outside of the norm. If you are concerned, then stop using it. That's a bummer for you because it has helped so many other men.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: nemo on April 27, 2009, 08:42:28 PM
Pete's notion that VED usage could make venous leakage worse is a new one on me.  Is that supported or even broached by any medical literature or professional opinion?  Pete, where are you getting that from?

Nemo
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on April 27, 2009, 09:54:58 PM
Quote from: Tim468 on April 27, 2009, 04:34:39 PM
Well Pete,

Don't know what to say. Your negative results are certainly outside of the norm. If you are concerned, then stop using it. That's a bummer for you because it has helped so many other men.

Tim

Me too. I honestly think that traction can occasionally be dangerous, even is a seemingly safe setting, and maybe the same is true of VED therapy. My suspicion though is that use of the VED is generally safer and it's an easier process to control and measure. The odd individual may well not be suitable, as we are all different, but it's certainly worth a try by all, so nobody should feel that this is a dead end. Give it a go, and see how you feel. For those who don't take to it, maybe light traction is suitable as well as oral treatments and exercise. There is no easy answer to peyronie's, but we all all in a position where we can be proactive and be sure that we are trying our best we can to control this condition. The beauty of this community is that we are surrounded by people with success stories via various options (oral treatments, VED, traction, surgery) and people that truly understand what we are all going through. Don't lose hope.
Title: VED's, men, and speculation
Post by: Angus on April 28, 2009, 02:07:42 AM

   This thread has covered VED use for years with many posts by many individuals about how to use the VED, how not to use the VED, and the results of same. The bottom line is each individual must make a decision to use the VED or not, and if he uses one, to choose one of the VED's recommended for years in this thread and to use it responsibly and follow guidelines posted here. In the end, each man uses the VED the way he sees fit, whether based on recommendations made here or not. Each mans sensation is based on his method. The methods described by so many individuals here who have used the VED for years do not cause pain, fractures or damage. Many posters appear to have theories about what a VED may cause in the way of damage and one must take those as theories and speculation, not fact. If a man reads something somewhere that claims damage caused by a VED, then this is what you have: something someone read somewhere with no basis of fact or proof. The record here posted by users who have used the VED for years without further damage speaks for itself. If one is unable for whatever reason to maintain the disciplines necessary for responsible VED use for Peyronies, then he should probably try other methods of Peyronies treatment.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on April 28, 2009, 09:35:43 AM
Note to all:

AMEN TO ANGUS' POST ONE THOUSAND TIMES!!!!

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on April 28, 2009, 09:58:43 AM
On a related note, the pain I had been experiencing appears to be much improved of late. In an attempt to limit any additional scarring coming my way, I'm tentatively setting a date of June 1st for starting VED treatment again. It was something I took to well previously, and as such, I'm eager to see what progress I can make if I stick to a routine for a year or so.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: double eagle on April 28, 2009, 03:40:34 PM
Just passed the 13th week, a little over half way through the FIRST therapy session. Since my humongous change in curvature, nothing has happened.

The quality of my erections has gotten better and sexual activity has become fun again, embarrassment has begun to wear off and I am becoming confident in becoming sexually active with new partners.

Up to this point, the VED has been my savior, but it is the only remedy/therapy I used. I am quite satisfied with the results up to this point. The VED is simply great, for me!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Pete28 on April 28, 2009, 05:54:22 PM
Quote from: Nemo on April 27, 2009, 08:42:28 PM
Pete's notion that VED usage could make venous leakage worse is a new one on me.  Is that supported or even broached by any medical literature or professional opinion?  Pete, where are you getting that from?

Nemo


That's the problem. There is no medical literature. In contrast to centrain drugs, the possible side effects have never been tested.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on April 28, 2009, 06:18:01 PM
Pete,

Let us know if you find a way to get the VED to work for you. If impossible, then I hope that other means work instead, like Pentox, etc.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Pete28 on April 29, 2009, 05:57:28 AM
Quote from: Tim468 on April 28, 2009, 06:18:01 PM
Pete,

Let us know if you find a way to get the VED to work for you. If impossible, then I hope that other means work instead, like Pentox, etc.

Tim


My concern: since i have used the VED for the first time, a month ago, my erection has been weakenend, although the ED problems were there before the VED (otherwise i wouldnt have used it). I used it half an hour and a couple of hours later again twenty minutes (bacause i felt i hadnt done it properly the first time and i thought in the meanwhile my body shoud have recuperated). The doc said 'every day half an hour', so i thought 'ah a couple of pumps more can do no harm.' Before using the VED, i still had some erectile 'reserve'. Now i can get fully hard, but it's only just before the 'finish'.
Could this mean permanent damage?

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/ode/guidance/1231.html (http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/ode/guidance/1231.html)
The fda warns to not use a penis pump when one has less sensation due to nerve problems, which i have. But didn't know that at the moment of pumping.

I also found back this post a couple of years ago within this thread:

tdsc
Voting Member

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Posts: 48


    Re: Tim - VED
« Reply #830 on: March 13, 2007, 03:01:27 PM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasn't targeting anyone.  George was saying the VED is legitimate, whereas I'm of a different opinion.  The ved pulls blood into the penis artificially.  How do you know that it's not pulling on things inside that may mess things up?  I saw on a website a doctor who used the thing because he wanted to just experiment with it (he had not injury) just twice on himself, and he said it permanently weakened his erection, and that was a common thing he knew about others.   If the penis is injured a rock hard erection is probably not the best thing.  During periods when the injury was aggravated my nightly erections were not as strong for a few weeks, but they returned to normal after cessation of whatever was aggravating it.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on April 29, 2009, 09:40:53 AM
Pete28

"The doc said 'every day half an hour', so i thought 'ah a couple of pumps more can do no harm.' "

From my prospective and experience you are over pumping. When you first start your sessions should not exceed 10 minutes and work up to 15 minutes.  I did something like you are doing at first and caused a bruise that took weeks to heal.

IMHO progressive loss of erections is not from VED therapy but more than likely progressive venous leakage and/or corporal fibrosis. I know some argue that venous leakage is not progressive but it is. You could also have some heart and/or blood vessel problems.

Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jfl on May 02, 2009, 05:58:13 PM
I have had Peyronies Disease for about one year now.    I am getting quite a bit of penis shrinkage and a backward bend.  I can still have sex normally but it is getting harder to do.   I have recently tired the VED and the last session I must have pumped to hard as the head of my penis is burning.   it is over 16 hours and no let up in the pain.     Anyone have any idea how long it will take for the pain to subside.
My major concern is " did I do any permanent damage ?   
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on May 02, 2009, 06:37:44 PM
jfl - Welcome to the forum. In your shoes, I'd take iboprofen for the next few days. If it doesn't let up, then I'd get it checked out. 16 hours is much too early to be able to say anything with any certainty, other than that it's imperative not to pump to a point where you experience pain. It's a marathon not a sprint, and being too 'gungho' is a real mistake.
Are you taking any oral treatments? A multi pronged approach to peyronie's may serve you well.
Title: Re: VED's -reply to jfl
Post by: Mick on May 02, 2009, 10:16:44 PM
Newguy's advice is good. To answer your question, it is unlikely that you have done permanent damage, but take it very easy until you get the hang of the VED.
Title: latest member of the VED club
Post by: cowboyfood on May 04, 2009, 11:30:28 PM
all,

I belive I'm the latest member (publicly) of the ved club; my fitzz vitality ved arrived today, 3 cylinder deal

Unless, Jackieo's arrived before mine.  But, I'm thinking he would have posted the good news by now if he had.

but, I'm thinking, no way that small cylinder is going to work!  It looks too small, but maybe it's supposed to fit extremely tight??

Old Man, thanks for your offer to help...I'll pm you soon.

CF
Title: VED use to retain length
Post by: newguy on May 11, 2009, 05:30:57 AM
QuoteTo assess the efficacy of vacuum constriction devices (VCD) following radical prostatectomy (RP) and determine whether early use of VCD facilitates early sexual activity and potentially earlier return of erectile function. This prospective study consisted of 109 patients who underwent nerve-sparing (NS) or non-nerve-sparing (NNS) RP between August 1999 and October 2001 and developed erectile dysfunction following surgery. The patients were randomized to VCD use daily for 9 months (Group 1, N=74) or observation without any erectogenic treatment (Group 2, N=35). Treatment efficacy was analyzed by responses to the Sexual Health Inventory of Men (SHIM) (abridged 5-item International Index of Erectile Function (IIEF-5)), which were stratified by the NS status. Patient outcome regarding compliance, change in penile length, return of natural erection, and ability for vaginal intercourse were also assessed. The mean patient age was 58.2 years, and the minimum follow-up was 9 months. Use of VCD began at an average of 3.9 weeks after RP. In Group 1, 80% (60/74) successfully used their VCD with a constriction ring for vaginal intercourse at a frequency of twice/week with an overall spousal satisfaction rate of 55% (33/60). In all, 19 of these 60 patients (32%) reported return of natural erections at 9 months, with 10/60 (17%) having erections sufficient for vaginal intercourse. The abridged IIEF-5 score significantly increased after VCD use in both the NS and NNS groups. After a mean use of 3 months, 14/74 (18%) discontinued treatment. In Group 2, 37% (13/35) of patients regained spontaneous erections at a minimum follow-up of 9 months after surgery. However, only four of these patients (29%) had erections sufficient for successful vaginal intercourse and rest of patients (71%) sought adjuvant treatment. Of the 60 successful users, 14 (23%) reported a decrease in penile length and circumference at 9 months (range, 4-8 months) compared to 12/14 (85%) among the nonresponders. However, in control group (Group 2) 22/35 reported decrease in penile length and circumference. Early use of VCD following RP facilitates early sexual intercourse, early patient/spousal sexual satisfaction, and potentially an earlier return of natural erections sufficient for vaginal penetration.
- http://www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/16107868 (this study is a few years old. Apologies if it has already been posted).

Of course the situation above does not exactly match our own, but it does at least provide further confirmation that in some circumstances, the VED can be used to retain length + even help with natural erections and as such is a good option for patients following surgery and those diagnosed with peyronies (as long as it doesn't worsen pain). It also goes without saying that it's one of the best options for those with long established and stable peyronie's too. Of course in this study, the lack of erections may have been the primary factor for loss in size, but many peyronies sufferers experience ED too, so to me the VED is still something that continues to show benefit as it provides a very full erection.
Title: Re: Double Eagle
Post by: Fred22 on May 11, 2009, 11:01:16 AM
Double Eagle,

You mentioned in your last post that you had a "humongous" reduction in your curvature.  I could not find the post where you stated the change but di read one reply that mentioned going from a 90 degree curvature to 10 degrees in 6 weeks.  Is that accurate?

Fred
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LWillisjr on May 11, 2009, 07:33:03 PM
QuoteOf course the situation above does not exactly match our own, but it does at least provide further confirmation that in some circumstances, the VED can be used to retain length + even help with natural erections and as such is a good option for patients following surgery and those diagnosed with peyronies (as long as it doesn't worsen pain).

Newguy,
I agree except that I would not recommend using the VED immediately after surgery. It would depend on the surgery and there may be some time required for healing of the surgical site required before starting the VED. This is something I would recommend anyone discuss with their surgeon before starting it.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on May 11, 2009, 07:37:44 PM

Yes, certainly. It was more the concept that I was trying to state really. The "use it or lose it" side of things. Those in the study began use at around a month after surgery, which presses the point that it would be a bad idea to launch straight into it.
Title: Re: VED's -reply to jfl
Post by: cowboyfood on May 14, 2009, 11:52:09 PM
Quote from: Mick on May 02, 2009, 10:16:44 PM
Newguy's advice is good. To answer your question, it is unlikely that you have done permanent damage, but take it very easy until you get the hang of the VED.

Mick, jfl, newguy...

I'm new the the VED protocol, and I too might have overpumped using the A (small) cylinder over the past couple of days.

I've been experiencing some discomfort in the area where the cylinder assembly rests against the body and some general soreness in my penis today...nothing "painful", but just sore...like your body may feel after a decent run when you haven't run in quite a while.

I may be wrong, but when I was pumping I didn't feel any pain, but I've found that the A cylinder is a helluva tight fit.

In my practice sessions, I've noticed I get a lot more lengthwise stretch in the B (medium) cylinder as opposed to the A cylinder.

I'm taking the day off today, and will start back in a day or two and really hold back some....that A cylinder is brutal on me, or vice versa.

CF
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices; to cowboyfood
Post by: Mick on May 15, 2009, 04:45:59 PM
You may have to shave some of the hairs where the cylinder ring touches your body.  Ane be sure to lubricate the end of the cylinder ring where it touches you (as well as your penis and the inside of the innermost cylinder).
Title: Speaking of damage...
Post by: bodoo2u on May 16, 2009, 07:09:21 AM
I'm slightly larger than 6 inches in around (girth) when erect and I tend to feel slightly uncomfortable when I use the small cylinder. Am I too large for the smallest one, and should I use the middle cylinder as my smallest for the protocol?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bodoo2u on May 16, 2009, 08:01:00 AM
Fellas,

I've been away for a while. I got away from my VED and traction device usage and noticed that I has some shrinkage and an increase in my curve. The good news is that i didn't stay away from the practices for long, and was able to get back what I lost (thank Goodness).

I'm sure that barring major illness, or losing my hands, I'm never going to get away from actively working on my Peyronies Disease. I didn't think my plaque was active because it wouldn't improve, but I now know that it sure can get worse and do it without pain.
Title: Re: bodoo2u
Post by: Jackieo on May 16, 2009, 04:52:53 PM
bodoo2u
Sorry to hear about your recurrence...but wanted to thank you for the post.
It is a good reminder to us newbies that this is not a short-term disease and that diligence (slow-and-steady) pays off.
JackieO
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on May 16, 2009, 06:20:49 PM
Boodoo,

I think the optimal size for the smallest cylinder should be "slightly smaller in diameter than you are".

That allows it to be confining, and direct the greatest amount of pressure longitudinally. The largest should allow you to full expand laterally without constraint, and I think of the B cylinder as allowing full lateral (girth) expansion, but with a bit of force applied to make you straight.

Just my take on it. Those who start thicker or fatter need to use different diameters IMO.

I note that www.vacutech.com has different sized cylinders for sale (I got one from them and like it) and they ranges from 1 1/2 to 2 3/4 inch diamters. The lengths go up to an optimistic 16 inches available option!

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Pete28 on May 17, 2009, 08:18:02 AM
Just like to know if anybody on the forum (with minor to medium ED) has seen improvement in duration of erection (without ring) after prolonged use of the VED?

This could be an indicator that the 'restretched tissue' is more able to pinch the veins and thereby holding the blood inside the chambers  ...
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on May 17, 2009, 02:39:33 PM
I have seen that, but it could be emotional/psychological, or it could be due to the small dose of Cialis I take every other day!

Tim
Title: Tim, JackieO
Post by: bodoo2u on May 17, 2009, 03:10:14 PM
Thanks Tim.

JackieO, Peyronies Disease is a stealthy as a Ninja Warrior. If you're older and not as sexually active as some of the younger men with Peyronies Disease, or if you're not be prone to frequent erections, or if you are, but get them nocturnally when you aren't looking at them, you might be surprised at what you see when you finally get a chance to study yourself.

Bodoo
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Bongo on May 19, 2009, 04:49:30 PM
Dear all,

Some of you might have read my previous posts, where I described my peyronies condition, which has been on-going for 5 years now without any real improvement. My condition mainly affects me with ED and pain. There is no real curvature, except what I have had from birth.

A few people here suggested that I should give it ago with a VED. I was sceptic, because I had been advised not to do so from my urologist. However, I am willing to take a few risks, as this urologist is very conservative.

Having used the Vitality Peyronies pump for only half a week (from Fitzz), I can already see the following improvements:

- Looser hang of both penis and testicles (tissue is much softer and relaxed - minimised tension)
- Pain is minimised
- Erections come easier and are firmer
- I do not loose the erections as fast as before
- Peeing feels more relieving
= Increased life quality

To put it mildly, I am very excited about these improvements. The small cylinder is causing some pain, because my penis can't really expand inside, but then again, the above improvements, have been made with mainly the small cylinder (following the 26 week protocol) + a few test trials with the large tube, just to see how it would feel.

I am starting to believe again..... Thanks to everyone, who suggested this (Old Man and others)!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: ocelot556 on May 19, 2009, 05:12:06 PM
I hope when people say the small cylinder restricts the ability for their penis to extend fully mean to suggest because of the type of suction rather than the physical size of the cylinder itself... otherwise I'm gonna start getting a complex! I can fit inside it no problem, especially since the small cylinder doesn't pull me to my full size. I'm not insecure by any means, it just seems that only a VERY lucky man would have problems fitting into the small cylinder! haha
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Bongo on May 19, 2009, 05:42:04 PM
Ocelot,

Sure, that is what I mean. Once "inflated", the penis touches the sides of the tube, which is probably as you say, due to the type of suction. I would not call myself big - probably mediocre, although I have had my comlexes too during the course of this disease.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: ocelot556 on May 19, 2009, 07:12:50 PM
Just trying to add a little humor to the situation, Bongo. The small cylinder doesn't get me fully erect. I can feel blood pulling into my member, but I don't get nearly as close to the size I am when naturally erect. Old Man tells me this is normal the first few times, so I'm not sweating it. I'd fill the cylinder out well, if I could get to full size in the VED, but even then I don't think I'll be pressing against the sides! Oh well, it's not the size of the boat as they say... ;>
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Pete28 on May 20, 2009, 07:06:46 AM

ED seems to get worse after using the pump. It almost 'conteracts' the extra i get from Cialis. I also did something stupid couple of weeks ago when i bended my penis in wrong direction when semi-erect. I felt a slight burning sensation and from then penis feels but stiff in flaccid condition. When i go peeing or take a hot bath it relaxes, so i dont think it's fibrosis. It's seem like the spongy tubes are in a small cocoon, it feals a bit 'round' and not flat and soupple. Dont know what to do now. There are two theories. When you have an injury, you have to keep stretching it to prevent excessive scar build up. But on the other hand, doesn't a slight bruise first have to heal.My uro tolt me i just have a small concussion without scar buildup and it will be ok within a month and that i have to keep pumping half an hour each day. I wanted a Doppler but didnt gave be the shot because he thought it would not be appropiate in this condition. Dopplet examination of flaccid penis showed normal corpora without any fibrosis. If this is no fibrosis, what cause the penis to feels stiff?

Yesterday i was pumping when the penis was leaning against the wall of the cylinder. When i pumped i suddenly felt a slight pain at the side where it was leaning aginst the cylinder wall. Of course, when that part can no further expand but you put pressure on it, where does it have to go?

It hurted a bit and now that part seems a bit stiff. Do others recognize this?
Is it very dangerous and can it damage tissue? It's difficult to keep the penis straight in the cylinder so it's not a practical situation.

Dont know what to do know, keep on pumping or not?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hawk on May 20, 2009, 11:48:12 AM
Quote from: Pete28 on May 20, 2009, 07:06:46 AM... on the other hand, doesn't a slight bruise first have to heal.My uro tolt me i just have a small concussion without scar buildup and it will be ok within a month and that i have to keep pumping half an hour each day...

Pete, to add a bit a humor, I hope you mean contusion.  A concussion would mean your brain was in your penis, and while we are often accused of that I think it is rare.  :)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on May 20, 2009, 12:12:22 PM
Pete28 - Of course everybody is different, but studies I have posted here relating to VED use after surgery suggest that when used daily VED therapy reduces ED. Of course most people here have not had surgery, but it seems likely that, when used correctly, VED therapy is unlikely to make ED worse. There may be a psychological element to your issue as use of the VED is certainly rather 'alien' at first, and may cause stress. Overpumping is also a big no-no and is has no up side whatsoever.

Bending your penis may be what is responsible for some of your current problems. As a sufferer of peyronie's, it's important to be very careful, because you are likely more susceptible to further injuries and complicated than most of the male population.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Pete28 on May 20, 2009, 06:30:49 PM
Does anybody know what this 'turtle effect' means from overuse of VED?

Can it be restored with shorter sessions?
Title: Petroleum Jelly
Post by: bodoo2u on May 23, 2009, 09:47:42 AM
I just discovered that petroleum jelly is an excellent lubricant for VED usage. I was in the bargain store the other day when I remembered that I was running low on gel. I decided to pick up a jar of petroleum jelly as an alternative, just to try it out.

It worked well, and I don't have to worry about the embarrassment of going to the regular checkout line in Wal-Mart with three tubes of lube anymore. I have been doing that ever since the pharmacy stopped allowing me to check out there without a prescription.  ;D
Title: Turtle Effect
Post by: jackp on May 23, 2009, 08:14:47 PM
Pete

The turtle effect is when the penis is like a turtle. When approached or scared the turtle retrats its head into the shell.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on May 24, 2009, 11:19:11 AM
Pete,

No one here - to my memory - has described the "turtle effect" to either use, or overuse, of the VED.

Since the turtle effect refers to smooth muscle mediated contraction of the penis causing it to withdraw, a tendency to pull it back out would be expected to lead to an "anti-turtle" effect from use of the VED. However, I have not heard of that either.

The problems that you keep describing with the use of the VED (bruising, turtle effect and ED) make me think that either you are doing it wrong, or that you are doing it "right" but it is bad for you.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Pete28 on May 24, 2009, 11:42:01 AM
Tim

How can it be bad when done not very long and at very low pressure?

Even people with servere corporal fibrosis have benefit from it.
Maybe the turtle-effect is not from the VED.

I think i might have a condition between normal elastin tissue and corporal fibrosis. The collagen seems to build up slowly.

No doc seems to know what my condition really means: i have a croocked penis with ED but according to doctors it's no congenital curvature (it's had become worse with time and mostly this is not accompagnied with ED), corporal fibrosis or Peyronies ...  ??? Flaccid penis continues to harden but seems to hang a bit looser after using the VED MODERATLY and with short sessions.
There is one weird aspect of it: when i trie to build up an erection slowly, the veins dont seem to keep the blood in (constant stimulation required to keep things going). But when i have used to VED very moderately, then take a hot bath, after stimulation for some time the blood rushes in it at once, the 'gates' seem to open and the veins pinch (a lot better then when i dont use the VED but only take Cialis).

Fysical conditon is very bad: i quit smoking two days ago and went running yesterday. Was totally exhausted after half a mile. Maybe this can partially explain ED?

So indeed, i probably was wrong it has something to do with the VED. Only when i overuse it, i seem to take a few steps backwards.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on May 24, 2009, 04:40:10 PM
Well, Pete, I don't know how it can be bad for you. But the proof of a pudding is in the eating, and if you use the VED and you're worse off afterward, then I wouldn't do that.

Has the VED helped you in any way at all? It also sounds like you have multiple things going on that would affect your health and specifically your ability to get an erection. It may be premature to blame the VED for anything going on. All that any of us can do is speculate as we are not urologists and have not (and will not) examined you.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on May 24, 2009, 07:44:02 PM
It's important to listen to your body Pete. If you're worried about what you're experiencing maybe give the VED a rest for a few days, then try again at a lower pressure. How about building up over time, by using the VED once or twice a week, for a month, then moving to daily use? At low pressure, I really don't think most people are going to experience many problems with the VED. There are exceptions to every rule of course, but many people have had good results from VED use.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Pete28 on May 25, 2009, 10:43:41 AM
I'm afraid i've got massive venous leakage, probably due to structural changes within corpora and/or tunica  ...  :( :'(

I hope VED can help a bit to stretch the tissue and close up the 'gap'.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: joecancer on May 26, 2009, 11:45:31 PM
Does anyone have a link to the best posts with instructions on how to use the OTC 3 cylinder pump? I can't get over how poor the instructions that came with the device are (especially for something that supposedly can cause serious damage!) I'm looking for instructions down to every last detail on how I am supposed to use this thing before I will try it.  I saw the protocol posts on this site, but they don't really give details on how to put the thing together and work it - they talk more about what to do once you figure those things out.  There's a lot of info on this site, but I'm just looking for the basics: how do I put it together, and how do I use it?  Thanks, Joe.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Jackieo on May 26, 2009, 11:55:46 PM
joecancer:
What model do you have?  I have been on the Vitality Manual 3-tube pump from Fitzz.
If you own that model I can walk you through it and offer some advice.
JackieO
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: joecancer on May 27, 2009, 08:22:08 AM
Yeah, I have the manual 3 cylinder one from Fittz too.  Thanks very much.  I appreciate it.
Title: Re: VED's - Problems with larger Cylinders
Post by: SurfMan on May 28, 2009, 02:12:50 PM
hello everybody, my name is Alex.  i have been dealing with peyronies for about four years now and am 24 years old.  I was prescribed a ved after finding this site and have kind of been a lurker for awhile.  I am extremely appreciative of all the information on here.  It gives me hope knowing that there are lots of other people suffering from the same condition and that peyronies can improve over time.  As far as my peyronie's stats, I have a curve to the left and some hinging I guess would be the term for it.  I have tried using my ved according to the 26 week program but find that it is hard for me to use the B and C tubes.  I have been having good results with just the A tube though.  My erections have been much fuller and penis feels more "elastic" when flaccid.  I feel I have also had some straightening. I have tried using the other tubes but my scrotal skin tends to get sucked up into the tubes on the B and C tubes.  This in turn is painful and uncomfortable and leads me to terminate my pumping session.  Other than that, i have not had any problems with using the VED, i am careful to advoid over pumping and am listening to my body when pumping.  If anybody has any advice on how to keep the scrotal skin from sucking up into the tubes when pumping, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Alex

edit, sorry moderators for the numbers in the name, I did not read very carefully, also, you can change my name to surf man if you want so it is pronounceable.  My fault for not paying attention.
Title: Re: Surfman - Correcting Your Problem
Post by: Jackieo on May 28, 2009, 08:36:04 PM
Surfman:  I just traded messages with Old Man today on this very topic.  I have the Vitality 3-tube Manual Pump by Fitzz.
It came with two black rubber rings.  The larger ring is necessary to keep the two-or-three tubes connected as a single unit and to keep a better seal against your body.  If you find a more comfortable fit using the A Tube but are suffering from pinching of your scrotum (up into the tube)...suggest that you insert the smaller of the two rubber rings into the larger base ring.  Th two rings nest too.  This will make a more "snug" fit at the base of your penis and might prevent what you are currently experiencing.  Also, I find it helpful if (prior to insertion) you wipe any excess lube off the palm of your hand onto the rubber end of the tube (for a better seal).
Jackieo
Title: Re: Surfman
Post by: Hawk on May 28, 2009, 08:42:41 PM
Also make sure you keep ALL lubricant off of your scrotum.
Title: Device on Ebay
Post by: crookedmile on May 29, 2009, 08:59:27 AM
I am wondering if people here think this device would be useful as a VED for Peyronie's or not. Thanks
http//www.link disabled by moderator.com
Title: Re: Device on Ebay
Post by: cowboyfood on May 29, 2009, 11:48:27 AM
Quote from: crookedmile on May 29, 2009, 08:59:27 AM
I am wondering if people here think this device would be useful as a VED for Peyronie's or not. Thanks
link disabled

I don't know if that particular device is useful for Peyronie's disease, but the following link is to a VED that many board members use for such treatment:

http://www.fitzz.com/Vitality-Plus-Three-Cylinder-Vacuum-Therapy-System--Recommended-for-Peyronies-Therapy_p_503-1983.html

You do not need a prescription for it, and you get a discount if you order online and put the word "team" in the discount code portion of the web page.

Have you read the "Highlights of VED" section located on the child boards yet?

CF
Title: Re: Device on Ebay
Post by: StamenMedicalSystems on May 29, 2009, 05:31:29 PM
The Erec-Tech vacuum erection device manufactured by Stamen Medical Systems is, by far, the best vacuum device on the market.  Suprisingly enough, Medicare and private insurance usually pick up the majority of the cost.  If you call them at (866) 506-7107 they will actually get the prescription from your doctor for you and bill your insurance directly.  You can also visit their website at www.link disabled by moderator.com and purchase an over the counter system if you don't want to deal with a physician.

Also available at Stamen Medical Systems is the Fast Size Extender.  This is a traction device that is being prescribed regualarly by leading Urologists.  It is not covered by insurance, but only costs $298.00.  This device will place the penis under constant traction thus helping to break up the fibrotic plaque.  If you can financially afford it and have good insurance, I would recommend both products. 

You will be very pleased with both the products and service you will receive from Stamen Medical Systems. 
Title: Crookedmile, StamenMedicalSystems...
Post by: Angus on May 30, 2009, 12:17:15 AM

   I would highly recommend that new members at least give us the courtesy of an introduction and discussion of a product before making a first post that is a billboard-type advertisement for a product with a hyperlink. Please read the forum rules that can be found on our home page. Angus, moderator
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: RichB on May 30, 2009, 02:10:40 AM
I sometimes wonder why vacuum devices and traction devices cost so much. 300 bucks for some bits of metal and plastic? Please. I'd have a better investment making the thing myself.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Attica! on May 30, 2009, 09:51:52 AM
RichB,
   I agree with you about the prices of VED's and traction devices. The medical/pharma industrial cabal knows that men would spend anything (and do anything) to keep their member long and limber. I hate to say it but if a traction device or VED cost $2500.00 I would find some way to pay it.
   Maybe Mr. StamenMedicalSystems, instead on being a self-serving, sleaze-ball, shameless shill, could explain to us just how they justify charging the price they do.
   Speaking of making a device yourself...does anyone remember that guy (I think his name was Robert) that was going to send out a traction device he made himself. I signed up, got an email from him and then he just disappeared. ,
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on May 31, 2009, 09:58:42 AM
Quote from: Attica! on May 30, 2009, 09:51:52 AM
RichB,
     Maybe Mr. StamenMedicalSystems, instead on being a self-serving, sleaze-ball, shameless shill, could explain to us just how they justify charging the price they do.
   Speaking of making a device yourself...does anyone remember that guy (I think his name was Robert) that was going to send out a traction device he made himself. I signed up, got an email from him and then he just disappeared. ,

LOL... With a request like that, I am sure StamenMedicalSystems will come rushing back to chat!

Many of us have made our own three cylinder "system" by, um, buying three cylinders separately. Indeed, when you buy a system, you get a fancy box, manuals, and a (and this is pretty important) warranty. Moreover, you can sometimes get it paid for by insurance.

But a "medical device" has to pass some standards, and an insurance company is not going to pay for a device that might easily pinch skin, cause an allergic reaction to materials, or do something else adverse. Therefore, although not all devices need to be "tested", they do need to meet manufacturing standards. This is the primary reason that they are more expensive - the production requires more work for it to be able to meet such standards (an example is the "AndroGold" device which advertises a lower rate of allergic reaction to the gold plated metal compared to other similar devices).

Nevertheless, I will tell you that I have bought three cylinders from different vendors for a price ranging from $50 - $75 each, with a manual hand pump that cost me $25, and the total cost came to much less than $200. It does not have a warranty, but it is 2-3 years old with no signs of damage. I made one traction device (too much effort and too unwieldy) and bought one that was very well designed, though fairly amateurish in execution, and they have worked quite well as intended. I do not use it, as I believe it may have aggravated my Peyronie's - this is the aggravating thing about this disease - nothing always works (or we would all do it).

Finally, I too was wondering about that inventor who was so clever that he had created a new device and wanted men who were willing to sign a bloody vow of silence (so professional!) and then ::POOF::     gone...  Given how many of us get renewed hopes with every new thing that comes down the pike, I find that most reprehensible (not to mention the lack of sharing of details to protect his "patent"...). I wondered if it was all a bunch of hokum. Seems like it was.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hawk on May 31, 2009, 05:11:00 PM
Quote from: Attica! on May 30, 2009, 09:51:52 AM
Speaking of making a device yourself...does anyone remember that guy (I think his name was Robert) that was going to send out a traction device he made himself. I signed up, got an email from him and then he just disappeared. ,

;D :D ;D :D ;D Speaking of that guy, what makes it more funny is how he chided all of us for being clueless about traction and how he was going to change all that with his revolutionary new design. At least when I developed my JackTrac system I included photos and a description  ;D :D ;D :D

Now that I amused myself I will go back to work.
Title: VED's and Hourglassing
Post by: Thin Man on June 04, 2009, 04:24:07 AM
Unlike most of you I don't have much of a curvature, my deepest sympathies to those of you who do. I however have a recent hourglass deformity, which fortunately is not so bad I'm getting buckling. I'm told by Dr. Wessels here in Seattle that hourglassing is one of the most difficult conditions to correct. I also have mild, diffuse scarring from surgery done 15 years ago. About 6 months ago re injured myself resulting in shrinkage in both length and circumference, but my main concern is the recent hourglass deformity at about the midpoint of my penis which I think is interfering with ejaculation. Then again my reduced functioning could also be due to the overall reduction in circumference in about half my penis, the distal half.

My question is - could it be that use of a VED might make hourglassing or internal narrowing worse? If regular VED use helps the penis expand outward, improving length and external circumference, might it also cause expansion inward putting more pressure on the urethra? The last thing I want to do is reduce my ejaculatory functioning even further. Has anyone had experience with a VED and hourglassing and/or narrowing?

In gratitude,

Thin Man
Title: Thin Man; hourglassing and VED's
Post by: Angus on June 04, 2009, 01:38:29 PM
I used the VED for years with no negative changes in the hourglass. I don't remember anyone ever posting about problems with VED use and bad hourglass changes, and especially never heard anyone speak of ejaculatory problems after VED use. I can't imagine how VED use would narrow anything including the urethra but I suppose it would be possible to damage anything with VED abuse by overpumping. Did you discuss the reduced ejaculatory problem with your Dr.? There is no way to diagnose this on the forum; you need to talk to him about this. You mention mild, diffuse scarring but you don't say where this is or what the surgery was for. You'd have to talk to your Dr. about the two being possibly related. Apprehension about VED use can be addressed by going with the protocol as a guide, and to use light vacuum until a person learns the basics of the VED. The VED used properly will not damage anything.
Title: Re: VED's - Hourglassing?
Post by: Thin Man on June 05, 2009, 02:56:46 AM
Angus, Thank you so much. It's been awhile since I've written - my history is a bit of a story. Someday when I get the energy I will have to write an entry for personal histories so readers can refer to that. In brief - I had surgery in 1995 - a mircovascular penile bypass due to arterial blockage from an old injury. My scarring began as a direct result of one the tests prior to this - the intern stuck two large needles into my penis - just behind the glans, but one of these he had to do four times before he got it right. This was to "inflate" the penis with saline solution in order to do an arteriogram. I got a lump at the point of the multiple needle stick that never went away. Some months later scarring started expanding from this point and reached almost half my penis, causing reduction in circumference but no substantial curvature. I'm told the scarring is diffuse, I have very few noticeable lumps, and a recent Doppler study shows no visible fibrosis.

My narrowing gradually improved over the years, but suddenly got worse again last November after an unfortunate incident. I was experimenting with a low dose of Levitra which wasn't working so well for me, so I then used an erection ring which worked, but when I climaxed I got incredible pain. Directly after this the area of narrowing suddenly got worse than before and expanded further up my penis about half an inch. This new expanded area is noticeably narrower than the rest during both a flaccid and erect state, but I'm grateful my erect penis hasn't started to buckle at this spot.

I would urge that anyone not use erection enhancing medications and an erection ring at the same time, this was the biggest mistake of my life. I know some of you have found this to be useful, but please if you're considering doing this consider also what happened to me.

Since my re injury in November my ejaculations have been greatly reduced in time and intensity. I don't know for certain if this is a direct result of the area of waisting at about the midpoint of the penile shaft, or if it's the result of reduced circumference in the distal half of the penis, or maybe both, but I assume these are related. My recent injury correlates exactly with reduced ejaculation. It's improved somewhat since then but it's not the same anymore.

Since VED use helps erectile tissue expand, my fear is that it could expand in all directions including towards the urethra, or is there a good reason to assume that's wrong?

I've asked Dr. Wessells about the ejaculatory problem and he doesn't have any suggestions for me. He doesn't strongly encourage me to use a VED or not use it, but he thinks if I'm going to try it longer intervals might be more beneficial than shorter ones. He's a surgeon, and has concluded that surgery and injection therapy are not good options for me (I agree), and that the time for me to take oral medications (Pentox, Potaba) would have been soon after the re injury - he thinks it's basically too late now. I tried Pentox at the time and it gave me dizzy spells, I had to stop - have been taking some other supplements. From November to February I lost about an inch in length and have regained a slight amount of circumference. Things seem to have stabilized somewhat by now (I hope, but who knows?). I'd like to regain length and especially circumference, but using the VED seems risky to me considering the nature of my injury.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Thin Man 
Title: Re: ThinMan
Post by: Hawk on June 05, 2009, 10:05:13 AM
Reduced ejaculation is frequently the result of some retrograde ejaculation caused by enlarged prostate.  Some or all of the semen takes the less restricted route at the point the two pathways join and gets sidetracked into the bladder.  Retrograde ejaculation in itself is not a major health concern but what is causing it could be.  There may be other causes for reduced ejaculation but If you have decent urine flow than it would not urethra constriction from Peyronies Disease.  I think it is accurate to say that most of the urethra support comes from the lesser 3rd chamber corprus spongiosum which prevents it from being squeezed during erection.  Scaring there would tend to cause a downward curve and MAY cause some urethra constriction during erection.  I don't state this from any expert advice but only from what I have gleaned from discussion with Peyronies Disease doctors and reading.

Dr. Levine's very small preliminary traction study indicated improvement in hourglass deformity for what that is worth.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bummedout on June 05, 2009, 11:17:15 PM
I also have only hourglassing and indentations that cause buckling.  My last plaque was caused by my urologist sticking a needle in me to give me an erection so he could "have a look".  I would never mess with a needle again, for anything down there.  Has anyone had any luck using a VED to get rid of their plaque, increase rigidity, and to fill out their indentations?
Title: Re: VED's - Hourglassing and more
Post by: Thin Man on June 06, 2009, 05:31:05 AM
Hi Bummedout,

My sympathies. As you can see from my post yesterday I also got my first injury from a needle, although I recently had a needle to get me erect for an ultrasound and I don't believe it's caused a problem (that was two months ago, we shall see) - the Doc used an insulin needle, and was careful not to go anywhere near existing scars.

You'll find many positive reviews here on VEDs for straightening but not much on hourglassing - anyone else care to weigh in on this?

Thanks so much Hawk,

You may be on to something there. My recent injury was partly caused by an rather stiff erection ring with a gap for the urethra (is that what they call a "C ring"?, not sure). I tried a variety of erection rings and found all of them to be extremely unpleasant when reaching ejaculation - it was exactly what you described - semen backing up and a burning sensation in the bladder. I found the C ring to be somewhat less aversive.

After my recent injury I got pain at the site of my old injury - near the tip of the penis (the site of the old needle stick) but also a few brand new areas of pain including the base of the penis. My Chinese acupuncturist suggested that this might be a muscular injury and could be causing some of my ejaculatory symptoms. He strongly recommended Kegel exercises which I've been doing regularly. Lately I began Dr. Herazy's suggested 8 second Kegels. I've had some ejaculatory improvement, but I'd say it's maybe only halfway back to normal. I've had no pain at all at the base of the penis since the first few weeks after my recent injury.

I don't believe I've got an enlarged prostate, I had the standard test about a year ago and they tell me mine seems normal. My recent ejculation problem began suddenly coinciding exactly with my recent injury in November. At the same time I had sudden circumferential shrinkage (which includes the corpus spongiosum!) throughout the distal end of my penis, although I haven't noticed a change in urination since then. I don't have a downward curvature and very little curvature overall, just this #$%@ shrinkage and hourglassing. Actually I've had some difficulty with urination for years, but I don't believe it's an extreme case, just the normal stuff men go through as they age. My ejaculations have generally seemed ok over the years until my recent injury, although for the last five years or so I've sometimes had more difficulty reaching ejaculation, but I think that's an entirely different problem - I think I've lost some sensitivity due to scarring. Ok maybe aging has something to do with it too.

Anyway, I'm just not totally convinced that VED use won't cause pressure on the urethra if there's hourglassing. Looking at a cross section diagram of the penis, it would make sense to me that both corpus carvernosa would expand in every direction possible - I assume most of that would be outward circumference and length being limited only by the tunica I guess, but each individual corpus cavernosa also presses against the corpus spongiosum surrounding the urethra and I assume would also expand that way too. For a guy with circumferential shrinkage perhaps even more expansion would go that way(?). Dr. Wessels reports he sees no damage to the tunica which gives me some hope, but I'm approaching the VED with caution, I've only tried it about 3 times, several weeks ago. My reduced ejaculations are my biggest frustration right now. I know this sounds shallow, but much to my surprise I'm suddenly starting to care less about relationships, sex, and life in general. I hope this will pass. I sure don't want to make my condition any worse.

Over and out,

Thin Man
Title: DIY VED's
Post by: crookedmile on June 07, 2009, 06:37:05 AM
Hi all
I suppose I should introduce myself a bit. I am 58 years old and I developed Peyronie's from an accident during sex in Feb 08. The bending seems to have been stable for the past 9 mo or so, about 80 degrees up. Intercourse very difficult and certainly there is pain after any erection, which I have found alpha lipoic acid to be very helpful in moderating. Been checking out the directions and photos for DIY VEDs. I have some degree of handiness with tools and materials and they do look awfully simple so am thinking of saving myself some money. Here are some questions I've come up with. I have read many of the posts in this section but not all so please excuse if some of these have already been answered.
1.Why does the cylinder have to be clear?
2.Can the cylinders be perfectly cylindrical or does one end I.D. have to be less than the other (conical)?
3.Is there some importance to the thickness of the walls of the cylinders?
4.Given individual's different penis sizes flaccid and erect what are the ideal I.D. sizes relative of the 3 cylinders?
5.Since some have used sex toy suction bulbs is it inconceivable that enough suction could be generated by the mouth connected to a tube and a valve to produce vacuum in the cylinders?
6.I have seen many suggestions on lubes. What is the current thinking for effectiveness and cost?
7.If successful, is a VED going to help the pain factor associated with during and after erections?
Thanks very much.
Title: Re: DIY VED's
Post by: cowboyfood on June 07, 2009, 09:51:27 AM
Quote from: crookedmile on June 07, 2009, 06:37:05 AM

1.Why does the cylinder have to be clear?


I'm using the Vitality VED and the tubes are clear.  In my opinion, a clear tube is more likely to be safer because you can see your penis as it is engorged by the negative pressure, and this may help to prevent overpumping.

Also, many VED users like to take some measurements of their penis in an engorged state (especially with the middle and larger tubes), so it seems to me it would be it would be easier to take any measurements with a clear tube.

CF
Title: Re: crooked mile questions
Post by: Angus on June 07, 2009, 12:10:02 PM
Some thoughts in reply to your questions:

1. The cylinder should be clear so you can observe physical changes such as skin tightness and skin color for safety. You can tell a lot by physical sensation but you need to see the physical changes as an erection is developed.
2. You do not have to have conical tubes. Straight walled tubes work just fine.
3. Cylinder wall thickness must be thick enough to provide rigidity to the tube. If the walls flex inward when the air is evacuated, it is too thin.
4. The smallest tube is usually 1 1/2 inches inside diameter. I have not owned a commercial 3 tube VED and I am not certain of the larger tubes diameters of those.
5. I use a sex toy grade vacuum bulb-type pump for my VED's. It certainly can produce the required vacuum. You are only dealing with -3 to -5 inches Hg of vacuum to produce an erection in a VED.
6. I like Astroglide as I believe it stays "slick" longer. Old Man and others have great success using the Wal Mart house brand of water-based lubricant. I have used it in the past and is certainly good enough for VED use.
7. I can't say if the VED can help with present pain as I did not have great pain in the early stages of Peyronies. I can only say that the little pain I had eventually got better then went away; I cannot say for certain that it was a result of straightening via VED use, but I feel that straightening and re-modelling by VED use may have had something to do with pain reduction in the long run.
Title: Making your own VED: making information easier to find in the Child Boards
Post by: Angus on June 07, 2009, 12:14:39 PM

   Posts dealing with making your own VED's have been in the VED section of the Child Boards for a long time, but I realize that they may be hard to find given the amount of posts and texts in that section. I have changed the font color of the posts dealing with making VED's to bright RED in the VED Child Board section to make them easier to find. A note at the beginning of that section about this change is also added and the note is in RED font color as well. I hope this makes finding this information easier for individuals to find.

Here is a direct link to the VED section of the Child Boards:

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,439.0.html
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on June 07, 2009, 01:41:48 PM
Quote from: bummedout on June 05, 2009, 11:17:15 PM
  Has anyone had any luck using a VED to get rid of their plaque, increase rigidity, and to fill out their indentations?

Bummedout, I don't think it's possible to get rid of plaque with the VED, although some of the more knowledgable posters may correct me on this.  What the VED does is to enable the rest of the penis, the healthy tissue, to "fill out", to stretch, especially around the plaque, where most of the stress of the vacuum pressure is concentrated. This is how, in theory, curvature and hourglassing is reduced. I think. Don't quote me on this.

In my experience the stretching and filling out has been temporary... possibly because I haven't been rigorous enough with my regime. My understanding is that for a permanent change to take place a regime of 2x30 min. sessions daily for 6 months is necessary. Even then there's only a 30% approx. chance of permanent improvement, so I'm told.  If others have got rid of plaque with the VED I apologise, but I suspect if that's the case it might have been used in conjunction with other treatments e.g. Pentox, or whilst still in the active phase.

All the above just my opinion/experience. I am not a doctor.
Title: Re: Where are the instructions to making a VED
Post by: Hawk on June 07, 2009, 05:53:51 PM
Just a reminder that these instructions are at least 3 places on the forum including the original post buried somewhere in this topic, the childboards under VED, and the easiest to find is under their own topic in the board entitled Resource Library. If you go to this last topic you will also find links that Tim provided as a source for cylinders.

On the forum home page just click on the Peyronies Disease Resource Library and you will see the topic about 4th topic down.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LWillisjr on June 07, 2009, 10:28:58 PM
Quote from: shrout on June 07, 2009, 01:41:48 PM

Bummedout, I don't think it's possible to get rid of plaque with the VED, although some of the more knowledgeable posters may correct me on this.  What the VED does is to enable the rest of the penis, the healthy tissue, to "fill out", to stretch, especially around the plaque, where most of the stress of the vacuum pressure is concentrated. This is how, in theory, curvature and hourglassing is reduced. I think. Don't quote me on this.

Shrout,
Sorry to disagree. The healthy tissue doesn't "fill out" around the plaque. The concept is to actually stretch the plaque and make it more pliable. Using a traction device is the same concept. This is also why many also take a combination of natural and prescription drugs to also make the plaque softer and more pliable.

Les
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: youngling on June 08, 2009, 03:06:48 PM
Hello all,

I am posting now to make note that I have begun a protocol for the recent VED I purchased.  This is the Vitality 3 cylinder that everyone seems to be getting.

I have posted before, but am going to recap.  This is now almost 2 years since I have had my modified Nesbit (Plication) Surgery for an approximately 35 degree CONGENITAL downwards curve. Since then, sutures are still fairly palpable (if you look for them) and penis has a minor residual downwards curvature.

Due to the surgical scar around the circumcision site which is still a bit raised, the smallest A cylinder is giving me trouble, in that, I do not believe I will be using it much during the protocol, instead going straight to the B Medium cylinder, as this allows for a decent amount of stretching with a moderately low amount of negative pressure.

I will carefully be monitoring the palpability of my suture sites (stopping the protocol if these get more noticeable), and also the amount of residual curvature (currently approximately 15 degrees).

Should be posting in about two weeks with progress.  Any advice?  please do tell!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on June 08, 2009, 04:01:07 PM
Quote from: lwillisjr on June 07, 2009, 10:28:58 PM

Shrout,
Sorry to disagree. The healthy tissue doesn't "fill out" around the plaque. The concept is to actually stretch the plaque and make it more pliable. Using a traction device is the same concept. This is also why many also take a combination of natural and prescription drugs to also make the plaque softer and more pliable.

Les

Les. Thanks for your reply That's interesting. I was reading this http://www.peyronies-disease-help.com/blog/?tag=ved (http://www.peyronies-disease-help.com/blog/?tag=ved) the other day, written by a Dr.Herazy, and this paragraph stood out....

"The danger with a penile vacuum pump is in the overuse or abuse of such a device.  The theory behind the therapeutic use of the VED is to slowly and gently stretch the scar tissue and soften it.  That does not appear to happen, because the normal tissue does indeed stretch, but the Peyronie's disease plaque tissue does not.  As a result a man finds that he has a temporarily larger penis that is less able to reach a normal full erection – and it still has the same Peyronie's disease plaque or scar, and/or curve, he had before. "

This appears to contradict your statement, and confirm my understanding of the situation re. stretching of plaque.

What is the truth here, as it seems to me to be fairly fundamental to the efficacy of the VED for Peyronies? Is Dr. Herazy propounding a consensus view within the medical profession or just his own opinion? 
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LWillisjr on June 08, 2009, 09:05:23 PM
Shrout,
I don't know anything about Dr. Herazy. It is an interesting article in that it almost contradicts most of the opinions in use on this site. Particularly his comment on the following:

From Dr. Herazy article "From my experience with countless men, my opinion is that it is simply better to avoid the temptation and pass on the Vacuum Erection Device.  It can cause a lot more problems than the small and temporary change in Peyronie's disease is worth."

From what I can tell in the article it is his professional opinion. I don't see any studies referenced. And as I said in a prior post, a VED or traction needs to be used in conjunction with natural or prescribed drugs to help soften the plaque.

All I know is that there are at least a few doctors who have published studies indicating where a combination of things including traction did produce positive results. While I respect Dr. Herazy's professional opinion, I would lean towards the results of the studies.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hawk on June 08, 2009, 09:27:39 PM
Quote from: shrout on June 08, 2009, 04:01:07 PM
What is the truth here, as it seems to me to be fairly fundamental to the efficacy of the VED for Peyronies? Is Dr. Herazy propounding a consensus view within the medical profession or just his own opinion? 

First we need to be clear that Dr. Herazy is  not an MD.  He is a chiropractor as opposed to a medical doctor or physician.  It bothers me a bit that he does not make that a clear point as soon as you log onto his site.
Title: Facts
Post by: Angus on June 08, 2009, 11:38:52 PM
 
     When Dr. Herazy says "from my experience with countless men...." I would like to know why they are countless. The term is usually used as a substitute for an astronomical number that is difficult to comprehend, like stars in the sky. If he in fact has had interaction with a number of men who have had no success and trouble with the VED, I would like to know that number and I'd like to know why that number isn't published or at least readable on his web site. In this case, "countless" could mean 2,584.... or 2. Since the real number is not in print, this only adds to the speculation and wonderment element about Peyronies Disease and the never-ending search for some facts and science about this disease.
     At least this board is the one place where mens own words about their experiences with this disease can be read with a bit of assurance that what is being read is a factual account, written to the best abilities of the author.
Title: Doctor of Wizardry
Post by: ComeBacKid on June 09, 2009, 03:38:39 AM
I think it would be foolish not to try out the VED, this so called doctor is way out of his field and doesn't know what he is talking about.  Even bone can be stretched out, eventually anyone using the VED will see some kind of size gain, even if it is minimal.  As for straightening I'm not convinced it will always work for everyone, as it didn't help me with straightening.

Comebackid
Title: Chiropractor's
Post by: jackp on June 09, 2009, 10:25:47 AM
I went to a Chiropractor for many years with my back. Over the years we got to know each other pretty well.

One day we were talking about ED. He told me that the nerves to the penis are higher in the back than the L4 L5 problems I was having and that with my uro's diagnosis of Venous Leakage that he could not help me. This was later confirmed by my back surgeon and Dr. Milam.

As the ED progressively got worse he and I had another chat and I told him I was going to Nashville for my implant. He told me his dad has some of the same problems I have. The short version is he sent his dad to Dr. Milam and he also had an implant.

During the course of our visits we talked about the VED. He agreed with the principle and the exercise recommended by Old Man.

IMHO the bunk put out by Dr. Hearzy DC is just than a bunch of bunk.

Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on June 09, 2009, 02:29:57 PM
Interesting replies, guys. Thanks. It looks like the good Dr.Herazy and I, and several of the urolgists I have consulted are in the minority.  I'm quite willing to bow to the combined wisdom of this forum and accept that Peyronies plaque can be stretched, permanently, (which is what I'm on about - I guess nobody is disputing that it can be stretched temporarily, unless it has calcified) by use of the VED.

That being the case, is there a consensus on this forum as to which medications or treatments are best used in combination with the VED to soften the plaque and make it more pliable, as jwillisjr suggested in his post.  Or is it simply a matter of trial and error. Many thanks.   
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LWillisjr on June 09, 2009, 06:20:07 PM
Dr. Levine recommends Pentox together with Verapamil injections.

Les
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices Video Demo.
Post by: casa on June 14, 2009, 08:59:28 AM
Hi, I recently acquired the Vitality VED thru Fitzz on the good advice of OldMan. I know there is a lot of info on here as to what to do; however I was wondering if there is a site with a video demo somewhere on the net as it would make life a bit easier. Thanks for all the help in advance.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: pichou on June 15, 2009, 05:13:40 PM
I called Augusta Medical customer service 1-800-827-8382 and they sell a DVD for $9.99

Good luck
Title: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bassman on June 25, 2009, 08:43:15 PM
Gentlemen,

When I first started the 26 VED program I was over zealous and produced a couple of red dots ( 1/8" dia. ) on the shaft of my penis and was advised by the group to back the pressure down and not be so aggressive until my penis acclimated to the exercise. I backed off and allowed the dots to heal, which they did and I started the program over with no further problems until I reached week 23. Now the bright red dots are back and there are 4 of them approx. 1/4" in dia., I figured my penis had acclimated and I could bump the pressure back up towards the end of the 26 week program to get the full benefit, I guess I was wrong ?

How long should I stop the program, if I stop until the dots completely heal should I start the program from week one and go another 26 weeks with more care of not harming myself - I hope did not harm myself ?

All comments are welcome.

Bassman
Title: bassman - red dots
Post by: cowboyfood on June 25, 2009, 10:43:52 PM
bassman,

Please take this comment in the context that I'm not very knowledgeable about the red dots, but if you're taking a relatively high dosage of Vitamin E then that could be a factor. 

I've been using the VED for about eight or nine weeks and I have not noticed any red dots; and, I'm taking 400mg of Vitamin E daily...I think I saw others discussing this issue before, and postulated that Vitamin E could be a factor.

CF
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hawk on June 25, 2009, 11:00:28 PM
The red dots are blood drawn through capillary wall to the surface of the penis.  I do not think the penis cannot adapt to that degree of pressure with that blood chemistry.  Either your blood is thinned with vitamin E, Ginko, aspirin, Garlic, or other one of the other many blood thinners, OR your vacuum pressure is just too high.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices Protocol for Use.
Post by: Old Man on June 26, 2009, 07:33:06 AM
NOTE TO ALL NEW MEMBERS:

Based on the number of posts being made and private messages I receive about how to use a VED, it is obvious that the protocol topic in the Child Boards section of the main forum is not being read and/or followed.

There are two protocols listed there: One is for the three cylinder purchased medical quality VEDs and the other is for those members who have made their own VEDs by using three individual cylinder type VEDs.

Each protocol goes into detail as to how the VEDs are assembled and used. Each protocol goes into detail about the safe way to use a VED. It is absolutely necessary to follow those protocols to the letter to obtain any results. If not followed exactly, trauma or injury can and will result. Again, OVERPUMPING THE VACUUM PRESSURE can only lead to problems as has been stated by several private messages I have gotten and some posts on the main forum.

NOTE:
The "home made" VEDs are just as good as the purchased units for Peyronies Disease. Each individual who made them will know how to assemble and use them, but must follow the protocol as listed in the Child Boards topic.

PLEASE GUYS, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS before embarking on any therapy sessions with your VEDs.

Respectfully, Old Man

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bassman on June 26, 2009, 10:14:46 AM
Hawk, Jackp & Old Man,

Thank you for your quick responces to my questions and concerns. Old Man sent me a PM and advised me to give myself a brake on the VED until the red marks heal hopefully no longer than two weeks and than to start back at about the 20 week spot and be VERY careful with the pressure - duly noted.

Jackp, I received you PM's and will be calling you to discuss my questions relative to the implant.

I am so fortunate to have caring people like yourselves and others on this forum - GOD bless all of you !

Bassman
Title: Check Valve
Post by: RichB on June 29, 2009, 07:54:39 PM
If anyone is trying to make their own VED, Wal-Mart sells very cheap check valves in the aquarium section. Probably about 2 dollars tops. They aren't industrial quality, but I would consider that a plus due to it being gentle. Perfect for sealing a good -5 mm Hg.
Title: Rich; check valve
Post by: Angus on June 29, 2009, 10:48:29 PM
RichB... if you work one of these valves into your VED let us know how it works out and how you got it installed. I never thought of aquarium stuff being a source of decent, low priced equipment. Good idea!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bummedout on June 30, 2009, 09:44:08 PM
So I'm about to regiment myself for the next 6 months into using a 3 cylinder VED.  As I begin this regiment, I just wanted to get an idea of what I can realistically expect.  I have plaques and indentations in a few areas of my penis.  In these areas I'm also missing rigidity.  If I understand correctly, what the VED is suppose to do is stretch out the plaques (not get rid of them) so that my penis looks normal during an erection.  I should also get my rigidity back and be free from pain during an erection.  Now, after the 6 months if this does happen, after I stop using the VED will things eventually go back to the way they were with respect to the plaques and indentation that I had before I started the 6 month regiment?  I apologize if this question is redundant.

Also, I know a couple of you have had success with this technique.  Are there any others out there who would like to share a success story?

Finally, I just wanted to thank those on here who have helped me out, especially Old Man who has been very patient.  Thanks.

Bummed
Title: Re: Double Eagle
Post by: double eagle on July 06, 2009, 04:16:28 PM
Quote from: Fred22 on May 11, 2009, 11:01:16 AM
Double Eagle,

You mentioned in your last post that you had a "humongous" reduction in your curvature.  I could not find the post where you stated the change but di read one reply that mentioned going from a 90 degree curvature to 10 degrees in 6 weeks.  Is that accurate?

Fred

Sorry for the delay, Fred, life happened.  ;D

During the early stages of my VED use I experienced a humongous curvature change, to which I attributed the VED usage. Unfortunately that was a false proclamation, as not long after curvature changed, I found a new plaque formation that had formed on the other side. WALLA! Loss of curve. Unfortunately, I lost some length in the process.

Since that first misguided proclamation of miraculous shift, nothing else has changed, besides a little more girth and length in the flaccid stage.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on July 08, 2009, 11:14:06 PM
bummedout- It was stated to me once that some of those being helped with treatment do not actually post here and so we don't hear their positive reports of progress. If someone experiences significant improvements they are as likely to swan off and never come back, rather than detail their progress. That's why I'm thankful of those people here who are basically stable and function (via surgery, VED etc) and do continue to post.

There are a number of bits and pieces around here though if you dig, from people gaining back significant lost length with the VED and improving curvature. It appears to be a treatment which can aid those recently diagnosed (as long as it doesn't worsen pain) and men with a stable conditon, so used correctly it's a good option for all. I posted a study a while back relating to how VED use reduces instances of erectile disfunction and curvature in those receiving penile surgery. This scenario does not mirror peyronies exactly, but it does suggest that it may well be something that can be of benefit to you.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: voulezvous on July 09, 2009, 11:36:31 AM
There's another huge reason why the use of a VED regimen is a wise course to follow. The longer plaque remains, the more likely it will become fibrotic & lose the elastin that is in the "normal tunica tissue. The only way to avoid this - its where the "shrinkage" comes from - is by use of the VED or regular strong erections. Certainly it is great to see results in curvature & even length but remember that we are all dealing with organic changes that have occurred inside a part of our bodies. Our enemy is scar tissue.
Even if you do not see significant alteration in curvature or length, the day may come when you decide that some form of surgery is the only way to go. If you look back at the surgery thread you will see postings by JackP & others (who have had surgery) that they either wish they had used the VED or are thankful that they did. You could say that it is a proactive step to avoid becoming worse off even if you don't become "better".
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Woodman on July 10, 2009, 02:00:23 AM
Hello Everyone

I have a problem with using the VED. I have used it off and on for a year now. I have a ventricle plaque on the under side of my congenital curve that points down. When I use the VED it stretches my curve straight pulling on the plaque. It irritates the plaque making it hurt for like 2 to 5 days later. I stop using it for a while and try again before long it happens again to one degree or another. I have tryed all different pressures moderate to light and even have the problem with light pressure. Light pressure being three to five pumps on the VED.

I really want to use it because I believe when I could get it to work for a while without any big problems it seemed to help with the problem of tightness and erection quality etc. I tryed to ask my Uro and believe it or not even though they prescribe it for Peyronies along with injections they really do not know how to properly use it. I asked and he said just pump it up to it just begans to hurt. We all know thats not correct.

I was wondering if anyone has had an experience like this with the VED and if they might know or suggest a solution to it.

Thanks Everyone

Woodman
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bassman on July 11, 2009, 12:24:26 AM
Gentlemen,

I have a question for anyone willing to help ? I posted two weeks ago of possibly over pumping the VED and causing bright red marks on the shaft and under the head of mt penis. I was advised by OLD MAN to stop for a couple of weeks, let the injury heal and start back up the VED process with LOW pressure - DULY NOTED !

It's been two weeks with NO VED and just a couple of erections but the red marks have not charged and some times slightly etch. Could this be something other than pressure damage from the VED like a fungus or a different symptom of peyronies. I want to get back to VEDing but don't want to cause further trauma ?

BASSMAN

P.S., Thanks again JACKP for your kind words over the phone !!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 11, 2009, 07:43:15 AM
Bassman:

If the red marks have not changed in the two week period of time, I would recommend seeing your uro or family physician. It may be something other than the overpumping of the vacuum. You have to be very careful with vacuum pressure as the penis is very sensitive to that as you found out. Also, you might be allergic to the lubricant or something related to it.

So,to be on the safe side you should get it checked out professionally.

Old Man

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bassman on July 13, 2009, 11:50:30 PM
Will do - thanks for the responce !
Title: Homemade VED
Post by: crookedmile on July 15, 2009, 03:58:53 AM
Here's one I put together with stuff I had on hand plus about $4 for 1.5" i.d. tube and PVC cap. The longer small diameter black tube allows suction from the mouth which provides plenty of vacuum and is easy to regulate as regards discomfort. To maintain vacuum you keep your tongue on the end of the black tube and "sip" a bit if necessary. The receiving end is a piece of packing styrofoam folded over the edge and taped down first with clear packaging tape and then over that with black electrical tape. No glue was used except a bit of epoxy to join the nipple to the hole I drilled in the cap. The cap is a fairly tight fit and the tape seals it. I filed both ends of the big tube smooth and rounded the receiving end edges before applying the styrofoam and tape.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/stebinus/VED1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/stebinus/VED3.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/stebinus/VED2.jpg)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on July 15, 2009, 11:10:57 AM
Looks great. With that curve, you might want to twist it to face the other way!

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Homemade VED
Post by: Mick on July 15, 2009, 12:12:21 PM
My first thought was that this looked pretty exhausting (ever if one doesn't have emphysema as I do), but if Tim, who is a lung doctor, endorses it I guess I'm wrong.

Mick
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: crookedmile on July 15, 2009, 08:31:42 PM
It actully takes very little lung power to create enough suction. In fact all the suction comes from pressure generated by the mouth and barely involves the lungs at all. There is no funky taste and the whole thing cleans up quite easily with a long bristle brush.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on July 16, 2009, 11:51:31 PM
Quote from: crookedmile on July 15, 2009, 08:31:42 PM
It actully takes very little lung power to create enough suction. In fact all the suction comes from pressure generated by the mouth and barely involves the lungs at all. There is no funky taste and the whole thing cleans up quite easily with a long bristle brush.

When you say there is no funky taste, I assume that... oh, never mind.  ;D I'll stick to a hand pump. I would also add that I *think* that I generate much higher pressures by a pump than I could by mouth. Sort of about the same as pumping up a bicycle tire would take a pump too.

Tim
Title: VED Review
Post by: jackisback on July 24, 2009, 09:16:43 PM
I've spent a lot of time researching on the internet about various things (not the least of which Peyronie's), but have had little to offer back.  So, I have been inspired to write a review and give my opinions about the VEDs which I have used since I have used 3 different brands. I hope that it will help somebody. The pumps I have used are: A) Vitality; B) Boston; and C) LA Pump. Since this is a long review, I'll say right now that I recommend using cylinders from Boston or LA Pump. I recommend using the pump that LA Pump provides, but don't buy from them, because Harbor Freight sells it for $20. Don't worry that it's cheap. More expensive is not always better.

First, I believe one of the most important aspects of pumping is to have a gauge, and I want to stress this. This will let you know what pressure you are using, and this can be an invaluable resource. There is a forum called ThundersPlace dedicated to penis enlargement, and regardless of what you think of the plausibility of that, I think their words of caution are undeniably a good warning. In other words: if they wouldn't do something with their (probably healthy, ED free) penises, then you definitely shouldn't subject your Peyronies Disease afflicted penis to it. Most things I have read have said that you should keep your pump below 3 Hg for the first few weeks or months, and rarely ever go above 5 Hg ever (remember these are the limits for guys who don't even have the penis diseases we do, so the lower the better). The past few weeks, I have been using a traction device, and using my old gaugeless pump (because I didn't have another cylinder in that size that connects to a normal pump). The quality of my erections have decreased (bad sign there), but also, last night when I used a gauged pump I approached 4.5 Hg before feeling any discomfort. Combined with worse ED, I could recognize this as a very bad sign since usually I am much harder and in discomfort long before I pump up to 5 Hg (for me something around 2 Hg). The gauge let me know that I need to take a rest period for a few weeks that I would not have been able to recognize fully since I had no pain if I had just been going by what my penis "felt like". My penis was getting too much pressure, even though I couldn't feel it.

So, the first VED I bought was Vitality's Peyronie's Therapy http://www.fitzz.com/Vitality-Plus-Three-Cylinder-Vacuum-Therapy-System--Recommended-for-Peyronies-Therapy_p_1983.html Don't get me wrong, I got some good pumps from it. But, I also had some issues. For one: it doesn't have a gauge. Two: it's designed to use these rubber parts (a tiny ring on the pump which lines up with the base of the cylinder, and a black rubber attachment to go on the end of the cylinder that presses against your body. These pieces are definitely necessary for a good air seal on the Vitality pump, but in my opinion, other pumps do not lack anything by not having these items. For me, these items serve as an annoyance because I must carefully and liberally lube up (to prevent air leak) an extra part on all sides (the large rubber bit) instead of just rubbing the inside and end of the cylinder, and going in. Also, I believed I had a nick in the tiny rubber ring once, and ordered a replacement once (I don't remember if that was really the problem, but why have extra pieces that can go bad and require you to order additional parts?). One of the main benefits of Vitality is that all the tubes fit into each other so it takes up less space. I personally believe that is a slight benefit to come at the cost of too many other things. Also, don't neglect, that if you buy a Vitality pump, those cylinders are not compatible with other pumps. So, if one day you decide you want a gauge, you will have to buy new cylinders. If you want to buy a different sized cylinder from Vitality, I assume you can do so. Funny enough, I just looked at the normal VED provided by Vitality, and they recommend a 2" tube as "Perfect for 99% of Men", yet their Peyronie's package includes only a 1.5" a 1.75" and a 2.25".

The second pump I used was Boston Pumps. The first problem I had was that the pump didn't seem very good. The gauge was not calibrated, and I don't know if I can calibrate it. I also didn't really like the way the pump felt for reasons I can't fully remember or explain. It's almost unfair to review them, because I bought a "Sleevemaster" tube http://www.bostonpump.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=13 I have ED, but my worse problem is getting the end of my penis erect, meaning even at full erection (rare), my glans (head) usually still looks small and soft. I hoped the Sleevemaster would constrict my base, and force blood to the head, and be better for me, but it simply didn't work that way (FOR ME!). For many other people here, it may be a great tube, but it didn't work for me. Also, the sleevemaster cylinder itself expands out at the end, so removing the Sleevemaster insert isn't a great solution. However, from looking at their normal tubes, they may be even better than the ones I use now. Remember, all these tubes can be used with any other typical coupler based pump, not just with Boston's pump.

Currently I use LA Pump. I thought the cylinders looked funny at first, but I haven't noticed any difficulty keeping my air tight seal while using them, and also the pump I believe is the best one that I've used. I bought the pump for full price, then I saw this recommendation by this guy: http://www.thundersplace.org/forum/showthread.php?t=69203 claiming that the pump here: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92474 is exactly the same. So, if I were starting out today, I would buy the pump from Harbor Freight and buy some tubes from LA or Boston. Also, the LA Pump package includes an "instructional video" which was pretty much worthless.

Buying a standard pump also has other benefits. For instance, many people think pumping with water can be safer than pumping with air. You cannot do this with the Vitality pump safely because water would ruin the pump. However, with a standard pump you can attach something like the "In-line Water Trap" shown here https://www.pumptoys.com/prod/stoframe.php to safely pump with water. I personally have never used this device or used a water pump.

Hope this helps someone in making a more educated decision.
Title: Re: Urologists and Other Doctors
Post by: Sad on July 24, 2009, 10:54:30 PM
Since I've had Peyronies, I'm no longer able to get a hard erection. They're soft, only semi-erections. Does the bend caused by the disease make it impossible to get a full erection?
Title: Re: Urologists and Other Doctors
Post by: LWillisjr on July 24, 2009, 11:01:42 PM
It effects each of us differently. It depends on the size and location of your scaring. Some of us have Peyronies but still achieve firm and hard erections. Others, however are affected in a way that blood flow can be restricted.

There is also a very strong psychological component. Something says "my erection isn't right" and this cn impact our thinking and ability to get erections as well.

Les
Title: Re: Urologists and Other Doctors
Post by: Tim468 on July 25, 2009, 10:49:52 AM
Sad,

Les said it all very succinctly. One thing to do is to de-emphasize erections for a while in your sex life and get going with the VED. This assures that even if there is a problem with the workings of the penis or the mind, your penis will be gettnig stretched out nice and firmly every day. The blood flow or the stretching helps a lot, and many of us report improved erections after using the VED for a while.

Other conditions like diabetes can affect erectile quality (and are associated with the onset of Peyronie's as well) so a good evaluation of your general health is in order too.

Finally, if nothing more pressing is going on like diabetes, then sometimes cialis or viagra can help too. Beins ure that your penis CAN get firm often allows the psychological component to fade away, and then the need for meds fades too.

Tim
Title: Observations
Post by: cowboyfood on July 25, 2009, 02:30:51 PM
First, Jackblack, thank you for your input.  I'm using the Vitality and I have been very satisfied with the product.  I wondered if the fact that the Vitality's lack of a gauge would be a significant issue.  But, after using the device, I'm not sure if a gauge is significant even though it might be relevant.  The feelings I have and the appearance of the penis while I'm using the VED is a very useful and sufficient "gauge" for me from what I can tell.

Update and a few questions/observations:

Special thanks to Old Man, Angus, and Jackieo for all of their encouragement, opinions and instructions towards my VED usage.

I'm about halfway through my initial 26-week protocol.  Prior to beginning the protocol, I spent at least a couple of weeks practicing with the VED.

Presentation of my deformity began last December, small indentation on the right side; since then a smaller dent has appeared on the left side.  Bend: noticable to me, a 20 -25 degree upward bend at the end of my penis. 

And, maybe my erections have been "straighter" compared to before presentation of my right side indentation.  I distinctly remember a leftward curve of my erect penis, not much, maybe 10 - 20 degrees.  I say this, because I believe the initial indentation made my erect penis straighter. 

Since I have never taken any measurements with regards to a bend, I'm going by memory.  But, I have a digital photography chronicle (at least weekly) of my erect penis (who would have ever thought of they'd have that kind of collection? I guess it's kinda nice to have in any event).

Length and girth have remained basically the same compared to pre-December measurements. 

It appears to me that "maybe" the right side indentation "may be" less pronounced in my erect penis than a few months ago.  But, it may not be...but, then again I subjectively think that it is somewhat less pronounced.

Observation: When I use the VED's middle cylinder (my personal favorite), the number of cycles it takes me to get fully engorged varies.  I believe I read that others notice this also.  Also, I do a few "warm up" cycles that I do not count towards the protocol's 10 daily cycles.

Question:  When should I begin counting cycles towards my "10 daily cycles?"  I usually start counting after about 3 or so warm-ups, but my penis is not fully engorged at that point.  I'm wondering if I should start counting when my penis is mostly engorged.

This may not be a significant inquiry, but I'm always trying to be cautious with the VED usage. 

Oh, one other observation: I think my penis skin has been stretched...(note: I'm circumcised)...I notice that when I'm flaccid, it appears that what foreskin I have has been stretched and covers more of my penis' head.  Anyone else notice this???  Of course, I realize that the state of a flaccid penis changes depending on a variety of circumstance.

Also, in addition to "throwing" the VED at my condition since late April, my arsenal against the condition includes:
Supplements: L-Arginine, ALC, Vit E (since April), Vit D3 and Vit K (since May).
Prescriptions: Pentox (since mid May), Viagra (since mid May)
Lifestyle: Running daily, eating healthy (I rarely drink alcohol)
Mental: this forum, being social, making myself available to women

Thanks for any comments.

CF
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on July 26, 2009, 03:56:46 AM
cowboyfood - Would you say that since you started using the VED the deformity hasn't worsened at all? The angle I'm coming at this from, is that if you started using the VED as soon as deformity presented itself what position do you think you'd be in now? Many of those using the VED have a stable condition, and so I'm interested in how it could benefit poeple in a more active stage. Maybe those new to the forum could be losing out of making significant progress by waiting to use the VED. it's an unknown I suppose, but something of interest.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on July 26, 2009, 06:14:51 AM
newguy

My peyronies started in 1995. I started using a VED in 2006 but did it all wrong. After the failed implant 10/07 I found this forum and Old Man.

Thanks to the exercise Old Man gave me I regained 3/4" of lost length. It took about 3 months to see results but I followed the routine and did the exercise like I was supposed to do.

During my initial evaluation at Vanderbilt Dr. Milam told me to keep up the VED exercise but stop a couple of days before surgery. Because of an accident I was in the hospital for 10 days in July-August 08. After a couple of weeks off the exercise I thought all was lost. I started the exercise back and within a week regained my previous length.

I had my implant 10/08 and have had an excellent  :) ;) :D ;D :o 8) result. The proper VED exercise the year before my implant was a major contributor to my outcome.

Thanks to this Forum, Old Man, Hawk and others that have given me valuable advice.

Jackp

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on July 26, 2009, 08:33:26 AM

jackp - I think you're what this forum is all about really. You used the advice and experience of others to put yourself in a much better position, and now you are reaping the benefits following on from your successful implant. Thanks for sticking around :).

Title: Cheap VED?
Post by: joe on July 26, 2009, 01:09:39 PM
First off let me say that I don't currently have a VED, but after reading about the success some guys have had here it is my next plan of attack on my peyronie's.  So I recently saw crookedmile's post about his homemade VED and how he uses his mouth to provide the suction.  I saw my gravel vaccum cleaner for my aquarium and it struck me how similar it is to his device.  Curiosity got the best of me so I tried it out and was pleasantly surprised.  I was also surprised that it only took about 3 puffs with the mouth to get fully erect. 

The vacuum I have was about $10 and looks like this one:
http://www.petstore.com/Lee%60s_Aquarium_Gravel_Vacuum_Cleaner_10_inch_Med_Self_Start_Aquarium_Siphons_Gravel_Cleaning-Lee%60s_Aquarium-LE11556-AQMASI-vi.html

The nozzle on the end comes off easily.  I measured the tube and it has a diameter of 1 1/2 inches and is about 8 1/2 inches long.  Perfect for the small tube.  I happened to be at the pet store yesterday and they do have a bigger vacuums - the next size up appeared to have a 2 inch diameter but was probably twice as long.  The plastic is not very strong, so I will probably get a real VED or make one from better material.  But I think this is a cheap way to discreetly test one out if you've been wondering if the VED is for you.
Title: VED usage in first year
Post by: cowboyfood on July 26, 2009, 01:24:06 PM
Quote from: newguy on July 26, 2009, 03:56:46 AM
. . . The angle I'm coming at this from, is that if you started using the VED as soon as deformity presented itself what position do you think you'd be in now?

Newguy, 

I completely understand your angle.  Of course, I have no idea where my deformity would be today without VED usage.

Here is what I've observed.  Since December, the indentation on the right side is slightly bigger, and a new indentation on the left side, slightly lower than the indentation on the right side, began presenting itself sometime in April.  So, it appears to me that the scar runs from right to left over the top. 

The indentation is more pronounced when I am partially erect.  When I am fully erect, it is not that noticeable.

My original upward bend has remained the same the entire time, about 20 degrees.  Length and girth have not changed since before the condition presented itself.

So, I'm about 7-8 months into this.  So, maybe the deformity could be worse had I done nothing, or just Vit E.  But, I've added the VED, pentox, viagra, L-arginine, ALC, and other supplements.  (oh, and I've eaten tulips every day, maybe that is a factor?  just kidding, I stole that line from Tim).

In my mind, I'm think no or a small amount of worsening is a victory. 

Also, I must admit I feel a little awkward about discussing it because it might get worse, but I feel I have a duty to report that, as far as I'm concerned, my condition is "so far so good".  I'd love a complete resolution, but I would also love stability.

CF
Title: Re: Cheap VED?
Post by: cowboyfood on July 26, 2009, 01:39:34 PM
Quote from: joe on July 26, 2009, 01:09:39 PM
. . . But I think this is a cheap way to discreetly test one out if you've been wondering if the VED is for you.

Joe,

I am in awe of your creativity and ingenuity. 

IMO, and I could be totally off base, this "test" is not comparable to a VED of medical quality.  True, it is significantly less expensive.

My experience is that it takes quite a bit of time and practice to get comfortable with VED usage.  I'm not so sure that usage with the "cheaper" version is comparing "apples to apples." 

But, others such as Angus and Tim for example, have made their own. 

Anyway, I'm hoping for the best for you.

CF
Title: Re: Observations
Post by: cowboyfood on July 27, 2009, 11:05:34 AM
Quote from: cowboyfood on July 25, 2009, 02:30:51 PM

Observation: When I use the VED's middle cylinder (my personal favorite), the number of cycles it takes me to get fully engorged varies.  I believe I read that others notice this also.  Also, I do a few "warm up" cycles that I do not count towards the protocol's 10 daily cycles.

Question:  When should I begin counting cycles towards my "10 daily cycles?"  I usually start counting after about 3 or so warm-ups, but my penis is not fully engorged at that point.  I'm wondering if I should start counting when my penis is mostly engorged.

This may not be a significant inquiry, but I'm always trying to be cautious with the VED usage. 

Oh, one other observation: I think my penis skin has been stretched...(note: I'm circumcised)...I notice that when I'm flaccid, it appears that what foreskin I have has been stretched and covers more of my penis' head.  Anyone else notice this???  Of course, I realize that the state of a flaccid penis changes depending on a variety of circumstance.


Hey guys,

I thought I would "bump" of the above inquiry I posted over the weekend.  Again, just wondering if anyone has any thoughts as to when I should start counting cycles. 

I notice that sometimes I can feel a little discomfort several hours after VED "session."  So, I'm trying to avoid overpumping, of course.

CF
Title: Re: What's a good brand of VED to get?
Post by: Sad on July 27, 2009, 09:40:55 PM
Are VED's the same as "penis pumps"? What's a good brand of VED's to get. They sell penis pumps on e-bay and in men's magazines, and they seem affordable, but I'm not sure if they'll last long or if they're good enough VED's to get. Do I need to buy a more expensive one from a medical supply store or something. Also, I've heard people in the forum mention "traction." What exactly is that?
Title: Re: What's a good brand of VED to get?
Post by: cowboyfood on July 27, 2009, 10:05:50 PM
Quote from: Sad on July 27, 2009, 09:40:55 PM
. . . What's a good brand of VED's to get.

Myself and several others use the following:

http://www.fitzz.com/Vitality-Plus-Three-Cylinder-Vacuum-Therapy-System--Recommended-for-Peyronies-Therapy_p_503-1983.html

This is a medical quality VED.  I think it's easy to use.  Put "team" in the promo code for a discount, order it online, customer service is cordial.

Begin reading the child board's VED thread.

CF
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackisback on July 29, 2009, 02:27:24 AM
Hey Cowboyfood,

If you're getting good results, then I think that's a fine plan. I was mainly hoping to reach those considering a purchase, or who hadn't gotten good results. You said that you had some discomfort a few hours after pumping. Since you've also said that you've gotten good results from your pumping, I would assume this hasn't effected your erections. Personally, I have had a lot of discomfort after pumping no matter what, and it is part of why I got one with a gauge. Also, I do not use the smallest tube. I'm no posterchild for VED success, but for me, the smallest tube caused the most discomfort, seemed unsafe, and I noticed negative results from it (sometimes after very good positive results that lasted only a week or so).

It also occurs to me that the VED would be used very differently if one did not have ED. If you had a bend, but no ED, you wouldn't need to be nearly as conservative as I've tried to be, and you probably could use a very small tube and pump up a big straight erection with little real risk.  For me, I have a small bend, and regaining as close to the erectile function I used to have is my main goal.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Thin Man on July 31, 2009, 01:09:02 AM
Hey Jackisback,

Can you tell us what you mean by negative results?

Like you my main concern is ED, and I'm wary of doing anything that would worsen that.

Thanks, Thin Man
Title: stretched skin
Post by: cowboyfood on August 01, 2009, 11:08:47 AM
All VED users,

Anyone else suspect that VED use stretched their skin in a way that it looks like they have a little more "foreskin" than previously?

I believe I have noticed this phenomena.

I'm circumcised, but I believe my skin has been stretched some so that in a flaccid state it appears I have a little more foreskin than before.

I find this interesting because it may be a further indication that the VED does physically alter the penis, which is the intent.

CF
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LWillisjr on August 01, 2009, 01:14:22 PM
cbf,

I've had the same experience using the traction. I also have a little more foreskin now when flacid.

Les
Title: after one month...
Post by: bummedout on August 01, 2009, 08:20:21 PM
Hello all.

So I've been using my VED for one month now, on average 6 times per week, for about a half hour per session (I usually masturbate while using it so that it's at least not a total waste of time).  I'm using the vitality 3 cylinder device, but you mine as well call it the 1 cylinder because the biggest one is the only one that fits me.  I usually pump until I feel a slight stretch, then release.  I build this up over the course of the half hour so that I can pump a little more and for a little longer.  This technique is just what seems most natural to me.  So far though, I do not think it has made it any better or any worse, other than the fact that my flacid penis seems to be a bit larger.  My real curiosity right now, is what should I be noticing.  Should my plaque become  more stretched?  should it go away?  should I notice increased erectile tissue around the plaque.  I didn't expect to see results after just one month, but it would be nice to know what I should be looking out for.  Old man, I know that you said it took almost a year before you saw your results.  Did you notice any changes during that year?  I look forward to anyone's comments.  I'll be posting after each month of using.

bummed
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 01, 2009, 10:43:19 PM
bummedout:

Yes, it took the greater part of a year to see final results. During that year's time, quite a number of changes were observed. The curves changed, the indentations sort of came and went at will. Other minor changes in the size, shape and other conditions were noticed. The flaccid state became longer and larger around back to my original size and shape before Peyronies Disease.

I noticed you said that you were only using the large cylinder of the Vitality VED. You should try to use the smallest cylinder that fits even with a bit of difficulty. The three cylinder VEDs are so designed that by using all three cylinders in rotation according to the protocol, you provide the best overall conditioning of your penis and the plaque/nodules and/or indentations.

Some of us in the early days had only the old Osbon one cylinder Esteem model VED. We had to develop a separate regimen of pumping different from the later model three cylinder models. Unless your physical size just simply precludes using all three cylinders, try to at least use the medium and large cylinders.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Jackieo on August 01, 2009, 11:05:20 PM
Bummedout:
I totally agree with Cowboy and Old Man on the use of the VED.  Old Man has been a great help and an inspiration to me.  Cowboy and I started the routine at the same time so I am thankful for his input and encouragement.
I feel I need to mention that I, too, originally thought that only the large tube "fit".  I even posted this fact.  After a few weeks of trial and error I noticed that the best "stretches" came when I was relaxed and not when I was hard.  In fact, when I was hard I could not reach the extent that I could when I was relaxed and if I did a full circuit of stretches (when I was hard) I was often sore the next day.  The longer, relaxed stretches were comfortable and (I believe) more productive in my correction in the long run.  I don't recall your "profile" so I don't know how Peyronies Disease has affected you.  I have/had a (45-degree) curve to the left.  One good thing about having a "side curve" is that it has been easy for me to chart what I believe is a correction. I have only been using the VED for 3-months +/- and I have had two consecutive months or correction on the degree of curvature.  I posted the drawing the first month (I am not at home currently so I have not posted the latest updated).
What's my point?.....  I think a relaxed stretch is more productive than stretching when you are "hard" and I think that once you master the "relaxed stretch" you may find that you "fit" in the medium tube and (maybe occasionally) into the small tube (I call the small tube the "torture chamber").
Good luck.
I wrote my interpretation of "how" one might approach the use of the VED.  I posted it but if you can't find it drop me a note and I will forward it to you.
Good luck.  I hope your use of the VED is as productive as it has been for me and others.
JackieO
Title: Re: Cowboy and Iwillisjr
Post by: ComeBacKid on August 02, 2009, 03:47:06 AM
Your not  crazy, you can restretch your foreskin with what little is left, I've had other men tell me they did this and improved sensitivity but it takes awhile.  The tension is what does it.  I'd imagine it probably works better with the traction device than the VED, but I think the VED gives a good stretch for my application.  I'm trying to regain lost size from peyronies, both width and length...

Straight from NORM (http://www.norm.org/)

A Logical and Successful Restoration Regimen

Cells are 'grown' by mitosis, that is cell division. In recent research on tissue
expansion it has been determined that cyclical tension is the most productive. It has also been determined that excessive tension does more damage than moderate tension and therefore tissue that has been overly tensioned will take longer to 'heal'.

Since the shaft tissue is both muscle and skin an appropriate analogy is a body building regimen. One works on the upper body one day and the lower body the next to let each set of muscles have a day of rest to generate new cells and then be coaxed again the following day to grow more cells.

Therefore, one must realize that there is NO fast or instant restoration. One must work into his daily habits a regimen that will suit his lifestyle and work habits, etc. One only needs to coax the tissue to think that it has to cover the longest penis in the world.

A suggested regimen, (which has worked for me and many others, and has been quite successful) is apply weights/elastics in the process of getting ready for work. Then wearing them from four to eight hours and removing them after arriving home from work. Or taking them off at noon time. Restoring while you are sleeping can be dangerous! When you are asleep you may not feel pain until irreversible damage has been done.

It is important to observe the following cautions: Don't cause or endure pain. Don't be overzealous. Don't cause constriction which may cause pain or cause the tissue to change color. Use the color change pressure test for blood circulation. (pp 142,143, The Joy of Uncircumcising, Bigelow, 1998)]

Soon after you start restoring you will probably want to keep the glans covered at all times as it will become more sensitive during restoration. This is because the nerves get closer to the surface as the dead and calloused skin that has been protecting it from rubbing against clothing and such disappears . When you achieve some longer tissue you can use a retainer for the remainder of the evening and night. This will keep the glans covered and protected from rubbing on your night clothes. It will also help retain the sub-preputial fluids to start the process of dekeratinization, (sloughing off of the layers of callous tissue and return the nerve ending to the surface of the glans and inner mucosal tissue. This might be a tape ring or cris cross taping or use of an O ring or Velcro strap.

This nighttime rest period will allow the shaft tissue (derma and muscle) to perform mitosis and grow additional cells.

Some restorers have advocated excessive tension for 24 hours, seven days a week. This type of regimen just does not work well for most of us as we have other things to do with our genitals like sex, bathing, rest and other fun things. As noted above damage to the tissue and much longer healing time are the result of excessive tension. As well it is simply not necessary and will not speed up the process.

An aside - - a fellow phoned me every six months from Texas, and said he was not getting any longer foreskin tissue. He said he was wearing 60 ounces of weight 24 hours a day seven days a week. I said, no wonder, your tissue is rebelling against the damage you are doing to the shaft tissue so stop it.

You only have one penis, and you need to become aware of its structure and its care. Please be careful, be aware of what it is telling you about your efforts to restore its covering.

R. Wayne Griffiths, M.S., M.Ed.
Co-founder & Executive Director of NORM

Their regimen is a bit different I suppose but same concept. This is particularly interesting because it could be concluded you can stretch your penis if you have peyronies and regain size that was lost or correct a bend.

Comebackid
Title: Old Man and Jackieo
Post by: bummedout on August 02, 2009, 08:42:09 AM
So, is what your saying that I should not have to reach a full erection with the medium cylinder?  Also, my condition doesn't involve any curvature, but instead a plaque at the glans of my penis and right under it, which was from my accident that caused this whole thing, and another in the middle that my urologist gave me by injecting me with something.  I have indentations and a decrease in size, but my major problem is a lack of rigidity while I'm having an erection in the plaque areas.....can't put on a condom.
Title: Re: Old Man and Jackieo
Post by: Jackieo on August 02, 2009, 01:08:50 PM
Quote from: bummedout on August 02, 2009, 08:42:09 AM
So, is what your saying that I should not have to reach a full erection with the medium cylinder? 

Remember....I am fairly new to this too and I am not a doctor...but I do have a curvature.  That being said, "Yes", it is my recommendation that you do not attempt to reach a full erection in any tube while doing your "stretch".  I know...sometimes it just happens.  But, take a break if it happens.  (Note:  I think semi-erect is okay for the stretching exercise).
The fact that you were aware of the timing of your accident and the fact that you do not have a curvature (currently) might work in your favor in preventing the development of a future curvature...if you continue using the VED and you get on a healthy regime of diet and supplements. 
If you want to masturbate maybe wait until you are done exercising with the tube.  My PCP suggested to me that erections are good for a healthy penis and that (it would follow that...) masturbation would therefore be good too.  He told me that I should experiment with how I hold myself (or how my partner holds me) during stimulation or masturbation.  In otherwords, hold yourself differently during masturbation to give your penis a break and to not create any new inflammation.
It is my understanding (and belief) that Inflammation is the big thing...especially in the early state.  Read up on diet and supplements on this forum to see what has been suggested.
Again, post your questions and stay involved.  The guys are great with "helping".
JackieO
Title: Re: Old Man and Jackieo
Post by: Ad Quem on August 02, 2009, 06:44:35 PM
Quote from: Jackieo on August 02, 2009, 01:08:50 PM
Quote from: bummedout on August 02, 2009, 08:42:09 AM
So, is what your saying that I should not have to reach a full erection with the medium cylinder? 


Okay this is my first comment here. I haven't heard of this process. My doctor didn't suggest it, but I will try anything that works. I'm going to read some more here and see what information you guys have posted on this. Are there studies that show this process works? Thanks.
Title: longer foreskin?
Post by: cowboyfood on August 02, 2009, 07:09:12 PM
lwillisjr & CBK,

thanks for your observations regarding skin.  It's amazing how much I "pay attention" to my penis since I noticed my dent and began treatment.  I'm convinced that my heightened awareness of my penis has its blessings (and drawbacks! but, I've gotten better at not freaking out about an ache, discomfort, or slight pain). 

I'm also convinced that regular (daily) erections and VED stretching has helped.  Like I've stated before, Peyronies Disease notwithstanding, I bet my overall penile health has improved because of VED, pentox, Viagra, supplements, exercise, and diet.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: RexXar on August 06, 2009, 12:40:41 AM
The better should acquiesce you to abounding aggrandize alongside after constraint, and I anticipate of the B butt as acceptance abounding crabbed (girth) expansion, but with a bit of force activated to accomplish you straight.




_________________
Link disabled and user banned for creating a Spam account.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on August 06, 2009, 01:54:57 PM
Rex, I'm, uh, thinking that English is your second language. That right?

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: ocelot556 on August 06, 2009, 03:56:09 PM
Quote from: RexXar on August 06, 2009, 12:40:41 AM
The better should acquiesce you to abounding aggrandize alongside after constraint, and I anticipate of the B butt as acceptance abounding crabbed (girth) expansion, but with a bit of force activated to accomplish you straight.


Somewhere in that paragraph is the hidden cure for Peyronies Disease! I'm sure of it. ;>
Title: Acquiescing, aggrandizing and my personal favorite, anticipation of the B butt.
Post by: Angus on August 06, 2009, 11:09:24 PM

     I've got shoes that are older than some of the computer experts that take the time out of their lives to post things like this. We'll leave the text for entertainment, but you'll notice the link was disabled shortly after the post was put up. So never fear... we'll be vigilant and watch for these types of posts. So rest easy everyone... and, have a good crabbed expansion  ;D
Title: Re: Urologists and Other Doctors
Post by: Noway on August 11, 2009, 05:31:45 PM
Tim468 I dont understand this with the ved.. Your penis isnt made to be "stretched out" it will damage the erection process. So maybe your penis will be longer but you might tear it more or make yourself completely limp. Myself I wouldnt use this method.
Title: Re: Urologists and Other Doctors
Post by: Noway on August 11, 2009, 05:40:45 PM
If you think about it stretching your penis will ruin the erection mechanism all together because you would be stretching that also. Also another thing is tearing your penis is most likely what caused peyronies disease in the first place. So stretching it out will likely cause more of a risk of damageing your penis further then it is or you can easily tear it if using this method "ved" . For example Just like lifting a really heavy box and you tear your arm its because you stretched it out.....
Title: Re: Urologists and Other Doctors
Post by: newguy on August 11, 2009, 06:13:53 PM
noway - the VED and traction are treatment options that have been useful for some men. If a person has an inherent weakness (which isn't the greatest surprise in people with peyronie's) on occasion people they can maybe worsen their condition through these techniques, though it does seem to be pretty rare (especially for the VED, where it's almost unheard of). For the majority I believe that these techniques can be used in moderation to regain some length. Studies confirm that for traction, and the results here should be confirmation enough for VED treatment.

Of course anything can happen, but typically I wouldn't comsider the kind of injury that can result in peyronies as being comparable with, say VED use for instance. With the VED you are  able to meaure how much pressure you apply.
Title: Re: Urologists and Other Doctors
Post by: skunkworks on August 11, 2009, 07:21:25 PM
Quote from: Noway on August 11, 2009, 05:31:45 PM
Tim468 I dont understand this with the ved.. Your penis isnt made to be "stretched out" it will damage the erection process. So maybe your penis will be longer but you might tear it more or make yourself completely limp. Myself I wouldnt use this method.

Your penis stretches itself out every time you get an erection. In what way would it damage the erection process? Blood vessels are quite stretchy, especially with low traction over long periods of time.

The only part of the body that I would be worried about is the nerves as they do not stretch and grow back at a very slow rate, but apparently they have enough give/slack in the first place to accomodate a certain amount of stretching.
Title: Re: Urologists and Other Doctors
Post by: LWillisjr on August 11, 2009, 07:54:34 PM
Quote from: Noway on August 11, 2009, 05:40:45 PM
If you think about it stretching your penis will ruin the erection mechanism all together because you would be stretching that also. Also another thing is tearing your penis is most likely what caused peyronies disease in the first place. So stretching it out will likely cause more of a risk of damageing your penis further then it is or you can easily tear it if using this method "ved" . For example Just like lifting a really heavy box and you tear your arm its because you stretched it out.....

Noway,
First off.....   the VED/traction is gradually stretching your penis. So your analogy of "lifting a heavy box" isn't quite correct. It is a very gradual process. Also, I know very little about penis anatomy before I had Peyronies Disease, and now I consider myself quite versed after much study. If you follow the directions and advice you will not damage "the erection mechanism". It is quite a complex precess involving nerves, blood flow, hormones, etc.

There are several good reference sites online if you want to do some follow up.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on August 15, 2009, 06:38:46 PM
im back on the VED and have been using it for about 18 months now - can any one here PLEASE let me know of their success with VED usage and give me a bit more motivation to continue its usage as I do need to hear something positive - this is so so so so draining!!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on August 15, 2009, 11:05:07 PM
Iceman

If it were not for the VED and the exercise I would not have had a successful outcome. It helped me gain back length lost to peyronies that started in 1995.

I know it is draining but beside surgery it is the best option. IMHO

Jackp
Title: Iceman... the VED
Post by: Angus on August 16, 2009, 01:23:59 AM
Quote from: Iceman on August 15, 2009, 06:38:46 PM
im back on the VED and have been using it for about 18 months now - can any one here PLEASE let me know of their success with VED usage and give me a bit more motivation to continue its usage as I do need to hear something positive...

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,466.msg13795.html#msg13795

Stick with it. Don't let Peyronies control or define you.
Title: Thank you very very much to OldMan.
Post by: learn4life on August 16, 2009, 12:03:59 PM
Just want to publicly Thank OldMan for all his contribution to the VED treatment.

I dont think i have posted since 2-3yrs ago but I would like to give my experience
on my 2 week La Pump Ved protocol.

1. Way softer plague scars .. to the point the scars have never been this soft before!
2. Harder and longer lasting erections.
3. More Spontaneous erections ...(Just finished 2 1/2 hrs weight and boxing workout.. went to
toilet and got a spontaneous erection after working out extremely intensely.. this has never happened before!)
4. By Far the most effective treatment Ive tried since having Peyronies since
mid teens for venous leakage and ED.
5.Producing girth and length growth .. most likely from the softnening of the
scars to give way for new, more tissue.
6.I had tried a cheap 20 bucks penile pump before but it was terrible ... i guess you get what you pay! ... it made my precum leakage way worse and stopped it immediately. Now with the La pump ved treament it seems to lessen precum leakage and when precum does leak it doesnt effect erection!

Could go on and on of the improvements ... its only been 2 weeks or so and wow ...

I wish i had started OldMans ved treatment 2-3 yrs ago when I first saw his thread but
was worried that it would cost more damage and thought it was expensive.

Sure it cost me over 350usd plus international shipping ... but it has been worth every penny
and more .. would happily pay extra if i knew it would give me this much improvement.


For about 10 yrs ive tried the following :

1. Dr Lins products, viagrowth vip cream
2. 2x a day Vit e/ borage oil massage
3. Thackers DMSO treatment
4. A whole bunch of supplements .. msm, l-arginine, carnitine etc etc too many too list
5. Uv light treatment
6. Cheap penile pump( Must of been 20 bucks ... should have bought one for Peyronies Disease!)

Possibly some more ... and i got to say nothing has compared to the VED treatment, Ved blows
everything else out the park .. wish i had started it years and years ago!

Although if i stay at it and be disciplined not to overpump, stay the course, Im
positive more improvement will definetly occur.

Anyways , just want to Thank OldMan again for his input .. without him
I wouldnt be experiencing this success so I wish you the best in life, OldMan!

All the best to all to getting by Peyronies Disease,

Sincerely,

Learn4life
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Thanks
Post by: Old Man on August 16, 2009, 12:57:55 PM
learn4life:

Many thanks for those glowing remarks about VED therapy. Wish you well and continuing success in the future with your endeavor to beat this horrible disease/disorder. Just hope that others could realize the success you have had.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on August 18, 2009, 01:47:00 AM
Does using a pump over the long term damage your ability to get a pump unassisted erection?
Title: Re: Skunkworks
Post by: Mick on August 18, 2009, 09:30:24 AM
No.
Title: it helped
Post by: j on August 18, 2009, 12:13:22 PM
I made one and used it for a few months.  I think it helped.  It does require time, and privacy, which caused me to stop for several months, but I recently started using it again.

Skunkworks, the answer to your question is NO, in fact the opposite seemed to be true. 
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/proper usage
Post by: Old Man on August 18, 2009, 09:30:35 PM
skunkworks:

No, emphatically no, VED usage does not cause any failure to achieve and hold a natural erection. The fact is, with proper usage and over a period of time, VED therapy can and will enhance ones ability to achieve a better natural erection.

In my case, after a radical prostatectomy in 1995 which rendered me completely impotent, a natural erection was out of the questin. After several years of VED therapy, I regained the ability to achieve an erection and with the aid of a restrictor ring to hold it up (have venous leakage) was able to have sex again. I still use the VED on occasion to achieve an erection for sex and just to keep the ability to do so viable. BTW, in one month I will be 80 years!

So, bottom line, proper use of a VED along with patience in using it can and will greatly assist one in achieving natural erections again.

Regards, OM
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Toby on August 23, 2009, 02:39:48 PM
Hi all. Havent posted in a while. I was wondering if anyone else has had problems with varicose veins developing on the testes after using the ved. I had varicose veins repaired with a varicocle embolization technique about 2 years ago, but after using the ved they came back and now I have them on both testicles. After I use the ved I get a lot of pain on the outside of the right testicle where the varicose veins have developed. Its to the point where I think I may have to stop using the ved but I dont want to because it my only hope. My uro said they probably developed from the added pressures in the area,more blood flow. Any ideas?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hawk on August 23, 2009, 02:52:58 PM
If you got varicose veins prior to using the VED then I think the recurrence likely had to do with that tendency and not the VED.  I also refute the statement there is more pressure on the veins in the scrotum or on the testicles from a ved unless they repeatedly got pulled into the tube.

Just my guess.  I never heard of another account of varicose veins and VED use.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on August 23, 2009, 03:15:03 PM
Toby:

I agree with Hawk on this one. The VED does not pull venous blood into the penile chambers, only arterial blood. However, having gotten the varicose veins back again might indicate that you might have used too much vacuum pressure while pumping. So, be over cautious when using the VED and not overpump the pressure. VED therapy is a case where more is not better, less if anything works best.

Neither have I ever heard of the VED therapy causing varicose veins in any instance.

Old Man
Title: Re: General Comments- that won't fit under any of our other topics
Post by: BSSS on August 26, 2009, 12:07:15 AM
don't know where the proper place to post this is, but here goes anyway.

I'm pretty sure I'm a victim of Peyronie's.  :-\

Not a laughing matter I know but am looking for a little direction.

I'm 52, and about 6 months to 8 months ago began to notice a nodule on the top side about midway between the glans and my abdomen.  I told my GP about what was happening, he's usually a good doctor, but didn't bother to look and said it sounded like Peyronie's.  Also referred me to a urologist.  Problem is the uro didn't have an appt available until 12-10. I'll be going then.  Anyway, I'm eager to get started and to try to improve.  It has affected my sex life for sure....never been painful but I do have a really good upward turn.  I've always had some upwardness along with not being too overly endowed, but it's never been a problem.  The last time the missus and I acted on the urge she mentioned it felt different enough to be slightly painful for her.

I'm in the market for either a stretcher or a VED.  I know there are threads for each approach, I've been reading them already.  I just didn't know which thread to post on!  :)
I looked at the Fastsize site and saw some of the pics of guys wearing the stretcher and the device looked like a torture tool on some of them, but as some state, the VED doesn't stretch as much? ???

I'm ready to spend my first $200 on a method to try and improve but am certain which way to go.  I don't want to wait till December really, but have read that you should wait for a certain amount of time before therapy?

Really, everything I've read just is pretty confusing and we're already pretty frustrated. Seems this trip could be a lot of trial and error.


Advice anyone?

Thanks!

BSSS
Title: Re: General Comments- that won't fit under any of our other topics
Post by: Hawk on August 26, 2009, 12:22:21 AM
BSSS,  Welcome!

I have both a traction device and a single cylinder VED.

If you are not sure you are committed to wearing the traction at least 3 hours a day (not without a break), then I would buy a good VED or make a VED.

If I was committed I would buy the traction device and later make a VED if you want both.  This is one man's opinion and there are probably 40 different opinions.

Hawk


PS: in an instance like yours, either topic would have been good to post in.  I will move this to the VED Board
Title: Re: General Comments- that won't fit under any of our other topics
Post by: BSSS on August 26, 2009, 12:41:33 AM
thanks for the welcome Hawk and moving the post in the right direction!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: BSSS on August 28, 2009, 12:36:49 AM
well, I took the plunge and ordered the three cylinder VED.  Since I won't see the uro till December I won't have much empirical evidence to start with but will post my findings after I receive the VED and get started.

Thanks,
BSSS
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hawk on August 28, 2009, 12:49:10 AM
Quote from: BSSS on August 28, 2009, 12:36:49 AM
I won't have much empirical evidence to start with but will post my findings after I receive the VED and get started.

At least 2 objective measurements:

1. Stretched length with a ruler pressed against the pubic bone
2. degree of bent

also a tiny mark a few days after getting used to the VED.  A mark on the large cylinder wall showing pumped length and finally note girth by the degree you fill one of the 3 cylinders (at the end of a session).  Compare every month.
Title: After 2 months of VED use
Post by: bummedout on August 29, 2009, 12:54:55 PM
Ok, so after 2 months now, no improvement.  My plaques are just as hard as they were before I started.  After using it I have a larger flacid penis....whoop!  My goals with the VED were to have a more rigid penis while having an erection and to get rid of the indentations I have, but I still just don't theoretically understand how a VED will do this.  It is also my goal to have this happen while I'm not using the VED.  While or after using the VED I guess maybe it's kinda working, but when I wake up in the morning my erection is not at all rigid where my plaques are indentation are very noticeable.  I get the feeling that the people who have had any kind of success with this, only have success while or after they are using it.  Is this true?  Anyway, I'll keep at it, and I'm going to a "specialist" in a couple weeks.  Maybe he can guide me more.  Until next month........
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/time to show improvement
Post by: Old Man on August 29, 2009, 05:05:32 PM
bummedout:

You have not been using the VED therapy long enough to realize large improvement(s). Some of us used the VED for many months before realizing good results. In some cases, the penile plaque, indentations and other symptoms take longer to show any improvement. However, the daily use of the VED can and will help in most cases. At least, the constant daily stretching of the penile tissue will give you a much more health penis.

In my individual case, it took about one year of VED usage to realize the success that happened for me. Today, I have few, if any, signs of Peyronies Disease symptoms. I still use the VED at least three or four times a week for maintenance to keep me healthy down there.

You should try to have enough patience to stay with the VED protocol through the entire 26 week course. You might need to do another 26 week course to reap the full benefit of VED therapy.

Good luck to you and keep up the schedule.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on August 30, 2009, 10:27:02 PM
bummedout - Some factors that impact results are likely out of our control (perhaps thickness of plaque - some peoples plaque areas possibly have a greater percentage of semi-normal tissue - just my theory). Still, many factors ARE in your control, and before you can be sure that VED use isn't for you I'd definitely say that it's worth giving it two cycles - so basically a year. As OldMan states many seasoned VED users here had to work at it for several months before they saw results. Even in the worse case scenario where you don't see results, you can at least legitimately say that you really did make sure that it wasn't for you (as opposed to getting disheartened and giving up). Not to mention that it will have kept the penile tissue get a good work out, and maybe even help with erection quality.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/time to show improvement
Post by: skunkworks on August 31, 2009, 05:24:04 AM
Quote from: Old Man on August 29, 2009, 05:05:32 PM
In my individual case, it took about one year of VED usage to realize the success that happened for me. Today, I have few, if any, signs of Peyronies Disease symptoms. I still use the VED at least three or four times a week for maintenance to keep me healthy down there.

You have seen close to total reversal?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/good results
Post by: Old Man on August 31, 2009, 10:18:49 AM
skunkworks:

No, not total reversal, but enough that I see no visible symptoms. There is only a very small indentation on the left of the shaft where the largest plaque and indentation were during the several bouts of Peyronies Disease over the years.

After the first 6 months, I had no visible signs, continued on for another 6 months with the VED exercises to be certain that I had given it enough time for the VED to do its job.

I firmly believe that you should continue on with the VED exercises so that you can be certain that VED therapy is not for you. It is known that it does not work for all Peyronies Disease cases, but the percentage of results is very high. I know of no qualified clinical trials that have been published showing the percentage rate of successes with VED therapy. There was a study being performed in a clinic in Birmingham, AL, but to date their report has not been published. That study was done with a three cylinder model VED which is why we on the forum are using that model now. In my case, my therapy was originally done with a one cylinder model, but now I am using a three cylinder one just for maintenance to keep my penis more healthy.

Hope the above helps, and if you have other questions, feel free to ask.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on August 31, 2009, 11:39:44 PM
Oh I'm sold on VED, I just have to figure out what device/where etc. Being in Aus I may not have the same purchase options, and my local hardware store did not have that kind of pump as listed below.

What name would be used for the pump part itself in a hardware store? I was going to buy the pump cheaply and get the tubs from somewhere reputable.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on September 03, 2009, 12:23:41 AM
ive got a new name for VED its called the PERI PUMP...i tell my girlfriend that im just peri pumping ---- sounds more friendly..
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Bertie on September 06, 2009, 04:37:06 PM
I am willing to try the VED. Does the Peyronies Disease Society recommend any particular product? Can they be purchased here in the UK? Is there any website where one can purchase a VED suitable for Peyronies Disease? I am new to all this. ::)
Title: Re: Recommendations
Post by: Hawk on September 06, 2009, 04:45:17 PM
As an organization we do not endorse products.  There are a couple issue:

Cost
Quality/durability
single Vs multiple cylinder

Outside of these, a vacuum is a vacuum.  You can buy a 3 cylinder type of easily make one.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on September 06, 2009, 05:50:50 PM
bertie - As Hawk says, there's no official VED that is recommended, so you'll get a few different answers from people, and some people even made their own. The VED I bought a while back is from Boston Pump. I can't really complain about the pump and cylinders other than to say that it took ages to arrive. A month or so. It's probably not a bad choice tho.
Title: Chris Spivey
Post by: newguy on September 06, 2009, 06:07:08 PM
Has anybody here ever had direct contact with Chris Spuvey (Spivey Protocol)? He could perhaps provide additional insights beyond his existing statements.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on September 06, 2009, 06:21:57 PM
newguy:

I have tried many times to get in touch with Chris Spivey who is connected with the urology group in Birmingham, AL. To date, have had no response from that group.

BTW, FYI Chris is a lady and not a man. She is in charge of the trials for the three cylinder model VEDs along with some other treatments that are supposed to enchance the VED, etc.

If and when she ever answers my emails and refused calls, I will report any information gained.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on September 06, 2009, 07:03:38 PM


OldMan - Oops, I apologise for the sexism :). Yes, it will be great if we eventually do hear back from her.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on September 08, 2009, 08:28:19 PM
OLDMAN - if the VED is not straightening things out and I have to be realistic about VED usage then is there an advantage to keep using the VED - I mean how will it benefit me if i use it every day
Title: Re: Iceman
Post by: ComeBacKid on September 09, 2009, 01:35:08 AM
If you have a "cast" around your penis like I do of fibrosis, it seems like stretching it with the VED seems to help.  It did nothing for my curvature, even seemed to make it worse, but it did help me regain size and hang better.  I'm getting ready to go on another six month treatment plan with it.  I think personally my plaque just will not budge, it seems hard to remodel, this is where xiaflex or a drug like it might help the VEd process if it can soften the plaque...  Dr. Levine had this theory when he advocated verapamil injections with the VED, but I still have yet to see one study that shows verapamil helps peyronies at all...

Comebackid
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/daily usage for more healthy penis
Post by: Old Man on September 09, 2009, 10:13:34 AM
Iceman:

Yes, daily use of the VED can and will help with keeping your penis more healthy. Comebackid has listed his success with VED usage in his post. Even if the therapy does nothing for the plaque/nodules or does not straighten your curves, the constant daily stretching will keep a good blood flow into and out of the penile erectile chambers. This will keep them open, more healthy and also help with erectile dysfunction if you have that problem. Using the restrictor rings with the VED can and will provide one of the best erection you ever had.

I still use my VED three or four time a week just for maintenance of what was gained by the year or so use of the VED early on in Peyronies Disease. The VED was prescribed for me in 1995 after a radical prostatectomy which left me impotent due to non nerve sparing surgery. The VED has given me great success in the ED as well as the Peyronies Disease problem.

Strongly urge you to keep on using the VED despite you not currently seeing any results per se.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on September 09, 2009, 02:16:40 PM
Iceman

What Old Man said is 1000% true in my case. 

In my case if I had not had the VED exercise I would not have had the outcome I had.

One of the side effects of peyronies is penile shrinkage.  The best way to combat that is daily VED exercise. I wish I had known about it in 1995.

The daily exercise of the corpora's keeps the blood flow going and that helps keep your penis healthy.

Jackp

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on September 09, 2009, 11:30:38 PM
I just read the protocol for treatment on here, and it states:

QuoteEach cycle consists of the following steps: (1) Create negative pressure around the penis, (2) engorge the penis inside the cylinder and hold an erection for 5 to 10 seconds, (3) release the negative pressure in the cylinder. The penis should have a firm, almost tight fit in the small cylinder with the penis actually touching the sides of the cylinder. The medium cylinder may have air space between the penis and the cylinder, and the penis should not be confined by the sides of the cylinder at all inside the large cylinder, depending on your size. NOTE: Each daily routine consists of doing these three steps for 10 consecutive cycles

Does this mean total treatment time for the day is just a few minutes?

10 cycles at 10 - 15 seconds per cycle does not add up to much time...

I expected to wear it for an extended period, like the traction device.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Angus on September 10, 2009, 12:59:52 AM
Quote from: skunkworks on September 09, 2009, 11:30:38 PM

...Does this mean total treatment time for the day is just a few minutes?

10 cycles at 10 - 15 seconds per cycle does not add up to much time...

I expected to wear it for an extended period, like the traction device...

    Yes, that's not much time. When I was active with the protocol I personally did the cycles for 15 to 20 minutes, sometimes a few more. This is where a guy has to pay attention with this. 15+ minutes at a medium-mild vacuum will do no harm. This is way more than ten cycles, but at a reasonably mild vacuum (enough to be erect, but not enough to cause redness, pinching, and uncomfortable sensations), there will be no harm done or damage. Many questions have been asked by guys about damage from a VED being used. The bottom line is NO, there is no harm in more than ten cycles, but you must get to know your body and STOP when your body tells you. Stop if you see edema (swelling of the penile skin being engorged with fluids), redness or pinching of skin at the end of the tube next to your body. This means too much vacuum or too many cycles or BOTH. Describing this on a forum is difficult as we don't do pictures and videos of the proper technique and so forth, but I can safely say this: Do more than ten cycles if you wish but at just enough vacuum to get an erection and no more. Now, if you try to push this out to an hour long VED session you WILL get skin swelling, redness and uncomfortable sensations. That is too much and your body will tell you right away when enough is enough. Do not be tempted to pump vacuum that few "extra" times to how big you can get. It hurts and does no good for anything. You will also get redness, swelling and tenderness with attempted marathon sessions. The VED is based on reasonable length sessions used with consistency every day. But hours long sessions like with traction are out. I know I typed a lot more than what addresses your question, but I felt I had to throw those additional things in so new readers would get more of a total picture if they are following this thread.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on September 10, 2009, 01:38:13 AM
That answer was perfect. Answered questions I didn't even know to ask yet. Much appreciated.

The one query would be how does one gauge if you have too much/too little vacuum going on. I have bought a cheaper Aus version, till I can afford the recommended pump on here. It has a pressure gauge. Oddly the Vitality (recommended model) does not seem to.

Is there a  set psi I should be working at?

Also, what about not cycling at all, just wearing it for half an hour or so?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on September 10, 2009, 07:14:51 AM
skunkworks

My experience with pumping up and holding for long period of times was I hurt myself.  It caused a bruise that took some time to go away.  That was before I found this forum and Old Man.  My advise is do not do it.

I had a single cylinder prescription model VED and the instructions were not very good.  I thought if I pumped up as much as I could stand it and hold it a long time would get faster results. How wrong I was.

I have posted the single cylinder VED use that Old Man gave to me. It helped me get to where I am today with a much better than expected outcome with my implant.  :) ;) :D ;D :o 8) ::)

I used the exercise for about a year. I learned the hard way that short cycles at a mild vaccum works best. A 15 minute session daily worked for me.

Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/wearing it for extended periods of time.
Post by: Old Man on September 10, 2009, 07:21:35 AM
skunkworks:

No, it is highly NOT recommended to "wear" the VED for extended periods of time. As Angus explained, reasonable pressures for a reasonable period of time will be OK. Extended periods of time with higher pressures can and will cause edema of the skin, damage to the glans and possibly other trauma. You do not need to use very long periods of VED therapy nor at higher pressures.

Pumping up just to see how "big" you can get your penis is very dangerous for the reasons stated above. So, use caution and approach the VED therapy as a long term procedure and you will reap much better benefits from it.

A gauge on the the VED could be a guide for those who deem it necessary. However, your body is a much better gauge of the amount of vacuum you can comfortably stand without causing any trauma. So practice with varying amounts of pressure to determine your comfort level. More repetitions with a moderate amount of vacuum will produce a better result than those of a higher amount, etc. So, use caution in the VED therapy and you will see better results. Again, there is not set amount of pressure one should use, let your body be the guide to that.

Let us know if you have further questions.

Old Man

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on September 10, 2009, 10:34:52 AM
Thanks for all the detailed answers Angus, JackP and Old Man.

Ok so it seems then that it would probably be more useful to have a quick release switch on the pump, than a pressure gauge, as we are not staying at any pressure for any real amount of time. Which explains why the VED device Old Man recommends does not have a gauge.

Great to hear that one could get the pumping out of the way in 15 min or less, that makes VED even more attractive as a treatment than traction.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on September 10, 2009, 10:44:24 AM
skunksworks:

Most all of the medical quality VEDs have a quick release valve. It is highly recommended that you purchase one with medical quality. I do not recommend buying one without a quick release valve as it would be dangerous not to be able to quickly release the vacuum.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on September 10, 2009, 11:11:08 PM
Chris

I just sent you a message on the implant thread. I know you are new and there is no need to double post.

Jackp
Title: Tissue contraction and expansion after VED usage
Post by: ComeBacKid on September 16, 2009, 12:19:02 AM
Has anyone noticed like I do, that just after using the VED their penis looks pumped and full, but about 15 mintues later it seems shrunken again and smaller then usual.  Then after taking a shower and cleaning off all the lube and whats left from pumping they are hanging well, and their next erection usually an hour or two later is full and pumped?  It seems like in my case the tissue is stretched and then responds by trying to contract, but ultimately leads to better and fuller erections.  I wonder if the damaged tissue's natural response is to contract initially?

Comebackid
Title: Re: Tissue contraction and expansion after VED usage
Post by: cowboyfood on September 16, 2009, 03:13:44 PM
CBK,

I may have notice the effect you are describing.  And, since I began using the VED, pentox, daily Viagra and supplements, I have noticed that overall my flaccid "hang" is generally larger, and sometimes substantially larger.

CF
Title: Tissue contraction and expansion
Post by: ComeBacKid on September 16, 2009, 04:59:25 PM
Cowboy,

When i was just on pentox my flaccid hang got bigger just by observation and erections were bigger and fuller by observation.  I don't know if this is cause pentox thins the blood and allows it to "fit" into the penis better and get to all the knooks and crannies and fill up or what?

I pumped last night with the VED, initially after getting done my penis looked pumped and good, then shrank up somewhat.  Today I got an erection and it was full and solid like the pumping last night seemed to help it.  One thing is for sure this disease seems unpredictable and the formations the damaged tissue can take are endless. Sometimes my penis feels soft all over and normal with a floppy flaccid hang like you should have.  Then other times its hard and shrunken up tight and hard and small.  Obviously the tissue can change, flex, expand, this is good as it can most likely be stretched as we've seen, and hopefully someday repaired for good!

Comebackid
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Overcomer on September 18, 2009, 12:49:08 PM
do you guys reccomend the ved for me? i have a curve to the left like a bannana and also noticed i have some waistin on the top of my penis. i've got a bit of a blood flow problem too but i suspect it's because i have low testosterone. i recently discovered that after going to my urologist. he had me do a dopplar ultrasound and saw the blood flow was not up to par and told me it was probably due to the low t. i'm going to see if i can score some pentox from him next time i see him also. wondering if the ved can help with these problems? i have plenty of time...
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on September 18, 2009, 01:21:16 PM
Overcomer - I typed a post in the Oral treatment thread that may be of use should your urologist refuse to give you pentox. As for the VED, I think it's a viable treatment for almost all peyronie's sufferers and the earlier people explore it as an option the better. People knock the VED, and admittedly it's not for everyone, but there are those here with good results from it, so it' certainly something worth giving a go. If it benefits you then you can stick with it for good, and if you come to the conclusion that it isn't of use (after one of two cycles of the program) then you can re-evaluate at that time. The only people I'd be in two minds about suggesting it to as those with pain.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Overcomer on September 18, 2009, 01:42:22 PM
Quote from: newguy on September 18, 2009, 01:21:16 PM
Overcomer - I typed a post in the Oral treatment thread that may be of use should your urologist refuse to give you pentox. As for the VED, I think it's a viable treatment for almost all peyronie's sufferers and the earlier people explore it as an option the better. People knock the VED, and admittedly it's not for everyone, but there are those here with good results from it, so it' certainly something worth giving a go. If it benefits you then you can stick with it for good, and if you come to the conclusion that it isn't of use (after one of two cycles of the program) then you can re-evaluate at that time. The only people I'd be in two minds about suggesting it to as those with pain.

hey new guy, thanks for your response. let me tell you a bit about myself. i have had peyronies now since i was about 20 years old. it's pretty distressing because of the shape and length loss associated with it, and now the ed. i've seen a few urologists who have flat out told me not to worry about it and if it's such a problem to just get surgery. now that's a complete joke and unacceptable how a lot aren't even willing to try to help, granted the disease is unpredictable. so until i get around to seeing one of the more reputable doctors in the field i decided i should probably do what i can myself, bang on doors as loud an hard as possible to get some sort of solution. with the time and help of some of the great members on this board i have been introduced to lots of helpful information and possibilities that could help me that the dr's i've seen haven't even had a clue about. it's funny i think the members on here know more about the disease and cuttin edge developments then the dr's i've seen. i still have not really pursued any kind of hardcore treatment in this entire time but am looking to when i see my urolgist again hopefully within a month. the ved is one of those things. i have seen people knocking the ved but if it works, it works and i'm not ashamed of having to use it or tell anyone i do...i have a problem afterall. i rather not have it, but it's the cards i was dealt.  i'm lookin to hopefully get on pentox and use the ved together. i just wanted to know if the ved was viable in my case for the bend and waisting i've developed + ed from blood flow. i know the ved helped old man tremendously. of course when i start doing any of these treatments i will keep a log so as to help others.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: HopeToHeal on September 18, 2009, 04:03:16 PM
Hi All,

Newbie here looking for some advice. My post could apply to multiple topics, but since I'm considering the VED, I thought this was most appropriate place to post.

I have to say I have spent the last several days browsing most of the topics on this site and I am more depressed and discouraged than ever.

My story - 44 years old, never had any problems with my penis before (no curve at all). Last November (10 months ago) I noticed a lump at the top of my penis near the base. I also started to have very painful erections (nocturnal and daytime) and some slight upward bending. Thinking back, I seemed to recall an incident where my partner bent my penis a little too hard in a downward direction a few weeks earlier. Thinking back more, I also recalled an incident a few months prior where I was attempting penetration without a full erection, and may have bent my shaft excessively. But I'm not sure about either of these incidents, as I didn't feel any pain at the time.

I immediately went to my GP who sent me to a urologist. The uro examined me and confirmed Peyronie's. I got the usual "1/3 better, 1/3 same, 1/3 worse" speech and an Rx for Trental. He said they wasn't much else to do.

Unfortunately I was dealing with another serious health issue at the time and that one was my priority. I've been dealing with this issue for many years, and as a result I work very closely with a diverse group of alternative medicine specialists. One of them referred me to Herazy's website and I began using topical copper serum and DMSO 2-3 times per day. I also used a homeopathic scar reduction formulation topically and orally. I did NOT begin the Trental.

This went on for 3-4 months. During this time my penis stayed relatively straight, although I noticed two long plaques also forming along the upper left and upper right sides of my shaft. A dent appeared on the right side of my penis for awhile and then disappeared. The terrible pain I was experiencing from my night-time erections decreased over time.

In February, my penis was injured again during some gentle sexual contact. I was shocked at the pain I experienced (strong dull ache) and the fact that within 24 hours, my erect penis had become far more deformed. I now had a substantial upward curve.

Unfortunately, over the next 6 months, life became very complicated for me and I basically ignored my penis and what had happened to it. I stopped the daily topical applications and did nothing. I limited sex to occasional careful masturbation and even that seemed to cause a flare-up of pain and possible increase in curvature. I wasn't looking too closely at my penis due to my disgust, fear and shock at what was happening to it. Basically I would avoid sex as long as possible and then masturbate out of desperation, only to get more upset at the result.

Fast-forward to today. Now 10 months after the start of this nightmare, I can feel the plaque going all the way up the top of my shaft to the glans. I have a very strong upward curve (70 degrees?), my length is shortened by 2+ inches, my girth is reduced and I have few nocturnal erections. My shaft is smaller in all dimensions in the erect and flaccid state - it feels like it is shrinking. Sex is now completely impossible - even careful masturbation is very difficult, causes pain and is totally unenjoyable. I only do it occasionally to try to keep the "plumbing working" to some degree. I can still achieve and maintain erections, although they are not as strong as before - which is no surprise to me given the deformity and my mental state when dealing with my penis. But the feeling of constriction in my entire penis is freaking me out.

I realize I made a big mistake by avoiding this issue and and possibly by not taking the Trental. I hope I have not completely screwed myself, but am worried that could be the case.

I'm wondering what advice and perspective some of you who have had this for awhile could give me. Some questions:

1. Have I passed some window of opportunity by basically doing nothing for 10 months? Is it too late to start the Trental?

2. From reading this site, nothing sounds very promising, although stretching or the VED seems to offer some hope. So I am considering those two options, and from what I've read I'm leaning toward the VED. I'm hoping that if nothing else, it will help my penis from losing all function due to lack of use and the tightening due to the plaque. Does that make sense?

3. One of my big concerns with the VED is that I could cause further injury to my penis - I feel that the unknown cause of this plaque accumulation is still there, and that any manipulation of my penis will simply cause more to accumulate. Should this be a concern?

4. Has anyone else noticed their condition worsening as quickly as I do? (overnight accumulation of significant plaque and change in deformity)

5. What else would you recommend I do?

Finally I have to wonder whether my Peyronies Disease was caused by a long course of a fluoroquinolone antibiotic I took several months prior. Antibiotics in this class are Levaquin, Cipro and Avelox. They are know to cause connective tissue damage, and I have heard other men blame them for their Peyronies Disease.

Sorry for the long post, but I feel very isolated, confused and depressed about this issue and am hoping for some answers.

Thanks Guys...

HopeToHeal
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on September 18, 2009, 05:54:54 PM
HopeToHeal

A very good an detailed account. There is hope. The first thing you need to do is get on the recommended VED therapy and start taking the Trental.

There is no fast fix. It takes time and dedication for the VED exercise to work. I can tell you from my story that the VED therapy does work. It may be 3 months to a year but it will work if you follow the protocol. Do not over pump.

I hate to tell you this but the 1/3 1/3 1/3 account your doctor said is true. Back in 1995 when mine started we did not even have that. 18 months after peyronies started you need to reevaluate things and look at your options.

I can tell you this even though I lost 1 1/2 inches in 1995 the VED therapy I did for a year helped me gain back length. For details read My History.

The best source of advice for VED therapy here is Old Man. I took his advice and was well rewarded.

If you have questions this is the best forum for them. Hope I can help.

Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LWillisjr on September 18, 2009, 08:02:14 PM
Hopr To Heal,

I agree with Jack. You asked if you "missed a window"...  Well doing something is better than doing nothing. So get started now. I don't think you will do any further damage with the VED, just use as instructed and be careful and slow with it.

You also stated that you feel the lumps and plaque on the top of your penis. This should make your erection curve upward, but you say it curves downward. So that one has me a bit confused.

Les
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: HopeToHeal on September 18, 2009, 08:33:51 PM
Les,

All of my plaque seems to be in the top side of my penis and my curve is completely upward. Maybe I confused you by my statement about my penis getting injured by being physically bent in the downward direction during sex. I think that may have caused a tear in the top part of my penis and the resulting plaque there.

Thanks for the responses so far - any others are appreciated.

HopeToHeal
Title: Jackieo's Improvement
Post by: cowboyfood on September 20, 2009, 12:44:48 PM
Jackieo,

I hope everyone takes a moment to read your recent post in the forum's improvement thread regarding your VED usage.

https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,466.msg22062.html#msg22062

Way to go!

CF


Title: Re: JackieO's improvement
Post by: Hawk on September 20, 2009, 05:21:34 PM
I agree.  Good news and a great detailed very specific post.
Title: Re:Hope to Heal
Post by: LWillisjr on September 20, 2009, 10:14:57 PM
Quote from: HopeToHeal on September 18, 2009, 08:33:51 PM
Les,

Thanks for the responses so far - any others are appreciated.

HopeToHeal

Keep accurate records. Measure your size and angle of curvature while erect. Tracking this is a good way to determine if your progress is improving, or if things are getting worse. Start using either the VED or traction, and start what is referred to here as the PAV cocktail.  Pentox, L'Arginine, and low doses of Viagra (Ciallis has a low dose daily option now).

This seems to be the best combination to provide some improvement. Be patient and try the above. I always recommend getting to a "good" sexual function specialist who specializes in the treatment of Peyronies Disease. We can makes some recommendations of doctors depending on where you live.

Les
Title: Re: JackieO - Accounts of improvement
Post by: Tim468 on September 20, 2009, 10:26:53 PM
Jackie,

It is my belief that those who suffer an obvious injury and an injury response, do better with the VED and medications than those who simply develop it gradually.

I think that this might be because of a stronger tendency to bend in those with chronic Peyronie's, versus the bad luck to suffer a bad one-time injury - but lacking the ongoing inflammatory response that accompanies gradual progression.

I hope I am right for your sake! Keep up the good work.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on September 21, 2009, 06:58:59 AM
After actually going into a few 'adult' shops to check out the merchandise, I think a cheapy pump is really not going to cut the mustard. Will wait till I can afford a good quality model.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on September 22, 2009, 10:06:56 AM
Hmm, the vitality 3 cylinder comes with Three Vacuum Tubes - Inside diameters of 2.25", 1.75" and 1.5".

I just measured, and my erect penis has a diameter of around 2.5 inches. I guess none of those tubes will work for me?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on September 22, 2009, 03:27:26 PM
skunksworks:

Yes, the Vitality three cylinder VED will work great for you. Read the protocol in the VED section of the Child Boards and you will realize why there are three cylinders.

If you need further clarification, send a PM and I will explain futher. No need to review here what is already shown in past posts, etc.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hawk on September 22, 2009, 07:53:44 PM
Quote from: skunkworks on September 22, 2009, 10:06:56 AM
Hmm, the vitality 3 cylinder comes with Three Vacuum Tubes - Inside diameters of 2.25", 1.75" and 1.5".

I just measured, and my erect penis has a diameter of around 2.5 inches. I guess none of those tubes will work for me?

How do you measure the diameter?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: BSSS on September 22, 2009, 09:29:43 PM
Quote from: skunkworks on September 22, 2009, 10:06:56 AM
Hmm, the vitality 3 cylinder comes with Three Vacuum Tubes - Inside diameters of 2.25", 1.75" and 1.5".

I just measured, and my erect penis has a diameter of around 2.5 inches. I guess none of those tubes will work for me?

I've been using the vitality 3 cylinder for about 2 weeks now and at first I didn't thing the smaller tube was gonna work for me either.  I found out after getting used to it that it will work.

With that in mind I'd like to report a couple of my 'subjective' findings.

1. I've noticed a definite improvement in my flaccid state.  Not nearly as much turtle effect. It may not be larger, but it seems to hang better if that makes any sense.

2. I've also noticed a definite improvement of my urine stream. I'm not sure why this is the case but am very encouraged by it.

I plan to keep working the protocol and hope to see results with curvature and hourglass.  I'll keep reporting any differences I see.

Also like to thank many here for the email and PM support; can't tell you how nice it is to know I'm not doing this stuff alone!

BSSS
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on September 22, 2009, 09:55:20 PM
Quote from: Hawk on September 22, 2009, 07:53:44 PM
How do you measure the diameter?

(circumference/(2x3.14)) X 2

OldMan - I did read through the protocol thread a week or so back (can't see a child forum though), can't remember seeing anything about this particular issue, but will go back and look again. Also read through the whole 47 page VED forum, no mention of this that I can remember. Have messaged you.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hawk on September 22, 2009, 10:44:21 PM
Actually the formula to find the diameter is a simple circumference or girth divided by 3.14 or C/3.14

At a glance it seems your formula gets the same result because it multiplies by 2 then divides by 2 ???

2 1/2 inches of diameter is 7.85 inches circumference which is beyond an exceptionally large girth

At any rate the diameter of the erect penis is not the issue.  You start pumping from flaccid and the penis conforms to the tube.  only the smallest tube might be an issue.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on September 22, 2009, 11:24:22 PM
Hmm I must have measured something wrong then, I am definitely quite a bit wider than normal, but not excessively so. As for the formula, maths is not my strong point :)

But lets say hypothetically that you used to have a diameter of 2.5 and it decreased after peyronies to 2.0 Using a cylinder of diameter 2.25 would mean you could never regain your original lost girth?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on September 22, 2009, 11:31:53 PM
skunkworks:

Yes, you would regain your original girth simply by the stretching effect of the vacuum in the cylinders. You would then see the original size outside of the cylinder once you achieve an erection whether it it natural or obtained with the VED. The large cylinder only is to be used for achieving erections.

Answered your PM earlier tonight.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on September 24, 2009, 09:02:59 PM
Thanks for being so patient and answering all my questions OldMan, Hawk and everyone else.

I bit the bullet and ordered the vitality 3 cylinder package. Big chunk of change (especially with shipping to Aus) but it seems like my best chance to fix a very important issue.
Title: VED is leaking air
Post by: bodoo2u on September 25, 2009, 12:03:22 AM
All of a sudden my VED is not holding air. I can see water coming out of the tip of my pump when I fill it with water to clean it. The water looks like it's coming from the area where the pump meets the piece that holds the hose. I have tightened the piece, but the water, and the air, still comes out.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on September 25, 2009, 12:21:40 AM
skunkworks!

good choice. do remember to take it slow. it took me a little while to get the hang of, in fact i got pretty annoyed at first. but it starts making sense. don't go too far too early. it's a pretty interesting process!

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on September 25, 2009, 02:38:20 AM

getting_there - Have you experienced any curvature reduction through use of the VED?  I notice that you've been using a VED for quite some time.

bodoo - Can you perhaps place tape over the area?
Title: Re: VED is leaking air
Post by: skunkworks on September 25, 2009, 03:18:20 AM
Quote from: bodoo2u on September 25, 2009, 12:03:22 AM
All of a sudden my VED is not holding air. I can see water coming out of the tip of my pump when I fill it with water to clean it. The water looks like it's coming from the area where the pump meets the piece that holds the hose. I have tightened the piece, but the water, and the air, still comes out.

Do you Yanks have Blu-Tack? Sounds like a Blu-Tack job to me.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/water in pump
Post by: Old Man on September 25, 2009, 11:11:51 AM
bodoo2u:

WOW, I can't imagine that you would have immersed the vacuum pump in water to clean it! Most VEDs emphatically state not to immerse the pump in water to clean it. I simply just keep mine as clean as possible while using it. Then after use I wipe it off with a soapy clean wash cloth and then wipe that off with only a wet cloth to remove any residue of the soap. Finally, dry it with a clean dry cloth.

You do not state which model VED you have, so I cannot relate to which pump you have. If you have any of the Osbon or Augusta model VEDs, the pump should never be immersed in water, etc. I would also say that most any other model VED pump should not be immersed in water to clean them.

You might try placing a cylinder on the pump and then hold the cylinder against your body and go through several cycles of pumping to try and get the excess water out of the pump. Other than that I have no suggestion.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/water in pump
Post by: Hawk on September 25, 2009, 08:13:03 PM
Quote from: Old Man on September 25, 2009, 11:11:51 AM
WOW, I can't imagine that you would have immersed the vacuum pump in water to clean it! Most VEDs emphatically state not to immerse the pump in water to clean it...

If you have any of the Osbon or Augusta model VEDs, the pump should never be immersed in water, etc. I would also say that most any other model VED pump should not be immersed in water to clean them.

Old Man, I think Tim actually said he uses his in the bathtub.  I have often filled mine (Vacurect) with water with no problems but it is a rather unique design with no separate pump.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/VED pump in water
Post by: Old Man on September 25, 2009, 10:00:23 PM
Hawk:

I know one thing for sure, if you own either an Osbon or Augusta Medical systems VED, you had best not immerse the pump in water to clean them. They will only last for one of two more pumps before going on the bad side!!.

I recall talking to Tim about his pump once, but remember he has a pump that comes from a company that makes medical equipment for labs and hospitals. Imagine that they are made to work in more of a rough environment than the ones made by the above companies.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/VED pump in water
Post by: Hawk on September 26, 2009, 12:11:59 AM
Quote from: Old Man on September 25, 2009, 10:00:23 PM
I know one thing for sure, if you own either an Osbon or Augusta Medical systems VED, you had best not immerse the pump in water to clean them. They will only last for one of two more pumps before going on the bad side!!.

Pretty important to know.  Thanks for the information.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on September 27, 2009, 03:57:26 PM
I use mine in the tubs without any problems. Here is a representative picture of one of my cylinders:

[links not allowed]

I often start with an "A" cylinder and then move to my "B" after getting 'pumped up'. That way, I tend to leak less at the base and get a better seal because I am already full of blood.

Here is what this vendor says about cleaning them:

"Pumps should cleaned after use and stored dry. Cylinders may be cleaned with a mild antibacterial detergent like Ivory liquid. Avoid using harsh chemicals or abrasive materials in order to preserve the clarity of your cylinders. Cylinder connectors should be loosened slightly prior to storage. (i.e.: not screwed tight.) Cleaning cylinders or pumps in an automatic dishwasher is NOT recommended, and will void your warranty. "

The latter recommendation is due to the ultra-high temperatures used in dishwashers.

I use a pump for my cylinders that I need to keep water away from as the seal will be lost. A typical cheaper source of a pump is listed below

[links not allowed]

Looking at the medical grade pumps, the best I can imagine is that some folks submerge the electronics to wash them (duh), but it seems that one has to have a way to wash out a cylinder!

Tim

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on September 27, 2009, 05:04:16 PM
Tim:

I think that you are dead on about keeping water away from the pumps. Can't imagine what would happen if water got inside all the mechanism with no way to keep it dried out.

Some pumps are made to work under water, but don't think there are any cheap enough to be included in a VED type situation.

You and I had discussed your VED before and I seemed to remember you using yours while in the tub, but kept the pump out of the water, etc.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on September 28, 2009, 08:08:53 AM
Hmm the Fitzz people charged my card 6 days ago, emailed me to tell me they'd charged y card 4 days ago, but still have not emailed me to confirm my order has been shipped as they said they would.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: hb on September 28, 2009, 08:54:39 AM
The pump I ordered was delivered within a week of the credit card charge. I never received an email about when it was shipped either. Fitzz is kind of sloppy about that.

You will probably receive it today or tomorrow. There was a back order on the Three Tube pumps for awhile but that seems to have been resolved.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on September 28, 2009, 09:01:40 PM
Hehe it has to get all the way to urbenville, NSW so I'd be very surprised if I got it tomorrow :)

Cheers for letting me know they often don't email you to confirm it has been shipped.
Title: Fitzz
Post by: cowboyfood on September 28, 2009, 09:45:39 PM
I received my VED from Fitzz last April.  I called the company a couple of times to check on the order and a guy named Mark was very courteous and helpful. There was some delay in getting the VED out of their door, but Mark kept in contact with me and let me know which day it would arrive.

CF
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on October 02, 2009, 04:18:40 PM
Newguy... i've definitely noticed it makig it straighter. it still has the hourglass skinny in the middle/end though but the gurth has gone up too, and it helps stretch the head tissues and makes them grow i think. the shaft, in all penises, is hard tissues and ultimately cannot really be grown bigger but the head is different. anyway. yeah. it's straightening it! i was using it regularly for only a few months then life changes and a move postponed it. now i'm just a 3 weeks back into it and already see progress again! also, it just makes it feel 'optimized' hahaha. definitely makes you feel like you're getting the most out of what you go!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on October 02, 2009, 04:28:25 PM
Newguy, and all:

i don't want to overstate the effects though... i still have a ways to go! but it is really 'getting there' little by little and it's exciting to finally see something creating results!

also i think the swollen feeling you have after a session sorta changes the way you see your self which has long term effects both physical and psychological. look at yourself in the mirror after. it should look bigger just after a session.

originally sex was really complicated due to curve/skinniness and condoms wouldn't stay on as well... now i'm finally at the point where condoms stay on and sex has been great. really encouraging.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on October 02, 2009, 09:54:38 PM
getting_there - This is very encouraging for others. Thanks for keeping us posted!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Fred22 on October 03, 2009, 04:41:18 PM
I'm strongly considering VED, but have been in pain off and on since spring of 2006, curvature since spring of 2008 at which time there was some reduction of pain.  However, I've recently been having flareups of more intense pain.  Doesn't seem to be any change in curvature.  All my uro would prescribe was vit. E. My question is; is it advisable to begin VED therapy while pain is present? 

Fred
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/using while pain present
Post by: Old Man on October 03, 2009, 09:17:45 PM
Fred22:

I really don't think that you would have a problem using the VED therapy while pain is present. However, if you do use it, you must, repeat must, be extremely careful not to overpump the pressure. A mild version of the protocol would increase the blood flow into and out of the erectile tissue. Overpumping the vacuum pressure can and will cause further damage. So, again, if you decide to use the VED, use extreme caution as stated above.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Exile999 on October 04, 2009, 03:28:36 PM
Is there anyway to buy a VED without having to purchase it online?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on October 04, 2009, 07:01:57 PM
Quote from: Exile999 on October 04, 2009, 03:28:36 PM
Is there anyway to buy a VED without having to purchase it online?

sex shops, although the quality may be questionable.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: hb on October 04, 2009, 08:25:49 PM
Actually, if you go to a compounding pharmacy, they may carry it. I know the Georgetown Pharmacy in Shawnee Mission, KS will sell certain brands over the counter. Most of their clients are seniors, so that is another place I would look.

A pharmacy that is located close to a retirement community. The sex shop VED's are of cheap quality and usually the tube is too big in diameter. They are made that way to convince guys that they will enhance the size.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on October 04, 2009, 08:41:15 PM
Exile999

My urologist office made an appointment for the VED rep to custom fit a VED for me in his office.

If you do not have insurance coverage it can be pricey at about $450 - $550.

Jackp
Title: How much pressure is requred??
Post by: SimonBart on October 06, 2009, 09:47:50 PM
I just got my VED yesterday and am experimenting with it's usage. I'm a little scared on how much to pump up the pressure. I haven't pumped it enough to get a fully hard erection as it feels kind of weird with all that suction.

It's looks and feels like it's getting full girth...but nowhere near the length of a normal erection and nowhere near as hard. Do I just need to keep increasing the pressure?

I'm just trying out the A and B tubes to get a feel of how this all works. In about a week I will start the 26 week program after I feel comfortable with everything....but I'm not sure I'm doing it correctly.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on October 06, 2009, 10:40:12 PM
SimonBart:

Based on your last statement in your post, it appears that you are using the Vitality OTC three cylinder VED. If that is the case, the A and B cylinders must be nested inside the C cylinder to be able to use the VED. If that is the case, your erection will not be as large as a natural one since the penis will be confined in the small A tube. There is no way that it can expand in the cylinder as a natural erection due to the small size. How are you able to determine if your erection is not as firm as a natural erection? Do you still remain erect after removing the cylinder from your penis?

You should look up the 26 week protocol in the VED forum board and follow the notes at the bottom of the page. You are right to practice with the VED before embarking on the schedule, etc. You must not, repeat, must not overpump the pressure when using the VED. The best rule of thumb about the correct amount of pressure is how your penis feels when applying the vacuum. If you experience and pain or discomfort you are overpumping the pressure and must use the release button immediately. Another thing, never, ever use a retainer ring on your penis while using a VED as this will surely cause further damage which you do not need nor want, so be careful not to use one

I have no idea why there is not a user manual or video supplied with the VEDs. This has been a problem for quite some time now and it would seem like that these would be supplied.

Keep up the good work and advise if you have any further questions about VED usage. You can use a private message if you have any special requests that you need to keep private.

Old Man

Title: Unimpressed with Fitzz customer service.
Post by: skunkworks on October 06, 2009, 10:47:01 PM
I have to say I am pretty unimpressed with Fitzz customer service at the moment.

Paid around 12 days ago, and tracking then and now states 'Pending_Tracking_Update', which to me suggests that it has not even left their warehouse yet.

Nor have they answered any of the three emails I sent requesting an update on what is going on.

It is difficult for me to call them due to the time difference between Miami and Sydney,Australia.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: SimonBart on October 06, 2009, 11:10:58 PM
Old Man...thanks for your reply.

Yes...I am using the 3 cylinder model...and the A & B are inserted inside the C.

When using either the A or the B cylinder, my gland gets fully engorged and the shaft a lot less. The pressure on my gland feels uncomfortable and I feel I need to stop increasing the pressure. When using the A cylinder my gland completely jams in the cylinder and I feel that there is no way the penis can increase in length even if I did increase the pressure due to it being stuck.

Using either of these A or B cylinders fails to get a full erection in the shaft without getting uncomfortable due to the suction. Is it possible that I'm just too sensitive ..or do I need to just take more time to get accustomed to using this new piece of equipment?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on October 07, 2009, 01:03:01 AM
maybe you need to apply lubricant to the head and shaft of your penis so it slides down the tube easier?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on October 07, 2009, 11:20:07 AM
SimonBart:

Skunkworks is 100% right! You must use plenty of lubricant when doing the VED for therapy or for practice etc. Try this - assemble the VED as usual, apply a good portion of lubricant up into the A cylinder as far as you can reach (some guys report using a bottle brush to do this), lubricate your shaft well and as you insert your penis into the cylinder apply a liberal amount on your head portion and this will greatly assist you in getting the head and shaft to go further out into the cylinder. Practice this until it becomes comfortable for you before resuming any sessions with the 26 week schedule. It takes time and patience o realize the full benefits from using the VED therapy.

A tip that worked well for me and others is this  - as you insert the head portion into the opening of the cylinder, jockey the cylinder around a bit on the head and apply a small amount of vacuum to help pull the penis on out into the cylinder. Sometimes, as I am inserting my penis into the cylinder, I push the release valve momentarily and push the cylinder down on the shaft. Of course, the entire procedure should be done before trying to get an erection or else you cannot insert the penis into the small A cylinder.

Please feel free to ask any and all questions you might have. VED therapy is not intended to cause pain or discomfort to anyone at any time. If this occurs, you are doing something wrong, so ask questions.

Old Man
Title: HOW MUCH IS TOO MUCH?!?
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on October 09, 2009, 02:55:33 AM
When i pump with the larger cylinder i get red specks (tiny broken capillaries) or the whole area will be made red with it. it's in the hourglass area that was effected in the original injury. it's does not hurt and it's not extreme but it's somewhat consistent. it's not deep on the inside, it's just the loose skin slightly 'bruising'. it happens a little on the medium sized cylinder and a reasonable bit on the large one. not much at all on the small one. it's just the skin and it doesn't make pain.

when pumping i like to push the edge. if i don't, it doesn't feel like anything is really happening. it feels a just little swollen after, and sometimes it's a pretty dang swollen with a little bit of red dots or quite a few red dots. you know... like a mist of them on the skin surface.
the redness seems to be there most of the time with the big cylinder. admittedly i bruise really easily in general. if i bump my arm or leg even a little on something... usually a bruise!

is this going to far? i don't do it until hurts. i don't pump until it looks like it's going to explode!
is the goal to get it really full and tight? or should is still seem soft when pumped as far as you go?
WHAT'S EVERYONE ELSE'S EXPERIENCE WITH THIS? ???
where's the line, how much is too much?!?

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on October 09, 2009, 10:29:09 AM
getting_there:

Obviously, you have not completely read the 26 protocol for using the VED in Peyronies Disease therapy. There are several statements there and all over the forum about using too much pressure while using the VED for any therapy including ED and especially Peyronies Disease. Overpumping can and will cause the condition you are describing. As most men tend to "bruise" easily" as get they older, you should recognize the fact that you must be very careful with the vacuum pressure. Some report using a gauge to measure the amount of pressure they use. This is not necessary as your body is the best judge of how much vacuum to use.

VED therapy must be approached with extreme caution with regard to the amount of vacuum pressure used. The best rule of thumb on the amount of pressure to use is this: -- If you feel any discomfort or pain, release the presssure and do not, repeat do not, pump to that level afterwards. Trial and error is the best guide to how much vacuum you should apply. VED therapy is a case where less is better than more. More and higher pressures will definitely work against your therapy if applied.

Will be glad to help in any way, so feel free to ask any and all questions with regard to the VED therapy. Hope you have better luck when you resume using less pressure.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: getting_there_in_oregon on October 09, 2009, 10:51:01 PM
that's just it though... it's not uncomfortable or painful at all. in fact the pressure feels good. not good in a sexual way, just... like something is happening. that's where the confusion comes in. i mean, other than the redness it doesn't seem to be a problem and the therapy is working from what i can figure. i don't want to rush it at all, but i don't want to do in 4 years what i could have gotten from 2 either. so yeah. it's hard to tell...

i'm wondering what others have found as well... how much redness is too much? hahaha.

i'll try to ease off and see how that goes. i'll try to find a good zone. thanks again old man!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on October 15, 2009, 11:50:24 PM
Well here we go, my VED has arrived. I'll be having a close read through the protocol and instructions, then a few test runs, then onto the 3 cylinder medical ved protocol. Hope this works out.

Ok question time

QuoteThe penis should have a firm, almost tight fit in the small cylinder with the penis actually touching the sides of the cylinder. The medium cylinder may have air space between the penis and the cylinder, and the penis should not be confined by the sides of the cylinder at all inside the large cylinder, depending on your size. NOTE: Each daily routine consists of doing these three steps for 10 consecutive cycles. This is the recommended schedule, but it can be modified as shown in the special note below:

Does this mean your erect or your flaccid penis? I think I may have to skip the smallest cylinder as it is a tight squeeze when flaccid to fit into the smallest one...

Maybe there needs to be a separate thread on VED proper usage.
Title: skunkworks
Post by: Angus on October 16, 2009, 06:52:18 PM
The instructions refer to the fit of an erect penis. The small cylinder will be tight as it's supposed to be. The sides are confining so elongation can happen when vacuum is applied. Be liberal with whatever lube you're using... on yourself as well as all around the inside of the small tube. A bottle brush makes it easy to completely coat the inside of the small tube. Things work a lot better on the small tube with LOTS of lubricant. Go easy on pumping the first couple of times.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ashen on October 17, 2009, 07:40:16 AM
So if I have Peyronies Disease, large plaque buildup which causes an indentation, but no ED (I can achieve erections just fine) which VED is recommended?

Soma Erect STF?  Vitality?  Something else?

Also what is the reason behind the $400 price tag between the STF and Vitality?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jimifan on October 17, 2009, 10:33:23 AM
Well Guys, I ordered a single cylinder VED through my urologist this week.  After completing 3 months of topical virapamil with no real improvement, I decided that was enough of that.  I also discussed and was shown a traction device.  I think I'll try the VED initially, as I am hoping it improves the quality of blood flow and healing potential, as well as improves loss of size.  I just don't see how I could wear the traction device for the recommended time.  I hope this VED helps!!!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on October 17, 2009, 03:52:16 PM
ashen311:

The main difference between the Soma STF and the Vitality OTC unit is the meaning of OTC. OTC, of course means over the counter and does not require an RX to get one. The Soma STF has to prescribed by a doctor to be purchased. Both are basically the same unit except for maybe some differences in the warranties of each.

The Vitality OTC three cylinder model is of a good durable medical quality and works equally as well as the Soma STF. Size is an acronym that simply means sized to fit hence the three cylinders. The Vitality model is designed more for a utility model VED that works well for both erectile dysfunction and for peyronies disease symptoms.

Hope this helps you better understand the differences between the two VEDs. The Vitality is the weapon of choice of a goodly number of guys on the forum. Look for their posts in the various topics that discuss the use of VEDs especially those containing the procotol for using the VED.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/protocol for single cylinder VED
Post by: Old Man on October 17, 2009, 03:58:49 PM
jimifan:
A single cylinder model VED can and will work just as good for ED and Peyronies Disease symptoms as a three cylinder model. You just have to adapt a protocol that can be used with only the one cylinder. JackP has posted a protocol for using a single cylinder VED elsewhere on the forum. It is one that I developed for him when he was having serious problems with using the VED.

He saved it for future use and has now posted it on the forum. Hopefully, he will read this post and post the link where he added it to the VED subject. If not, look for it under the area where the VEDs and other related topics are shown on the home page of the forum.

It worked successfully for me in my early Peyronies Disease days before the 3 cylinder model VEDs hit the market. He was successful in using the one cylinder model to help with his problems.

Old Man

Edit: See the later post from JackP stating to look at an earlier post of his.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on October 17, 2009, 04:33:08 PM
Old Man /jimifan

It is the single cylinder post at the bottom of the VED board.

I will copy it and send it to you in a PM.

Any questions, just ask glad to help.

Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: cowboyfood on October 17, 2009, 04:37:32 PM
Quote from: ashen311 on October 17, 2009, 07:40:16 AM

Soma Erect STF?  Vitality?  Something else?


I have an indentation and use the Vitality VED.  And, I'm very pleased with it.  It's easy to use and seems to be a high quality device.  I know that another member, JackieO, began using the Vitality the same time as me and I believe he is very satisfied with it.

CF
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ashen on October 17, 2009, 04:49:19 PM
Thanks for the response's Old Man and cowboyfood.  I think I will go with ordering the Vitality, especially since I won't have to jump through hoops to get a prescription for it.

Where is the best place to order the Vitality ved from?  So far I have found www.vedsystems.com
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Vitality source
Post by: Old Man on October 17, 2009, 05:48:48 PM
ashen311:

The source you listed in your post below is for a one cylinder VED. You want to get the three cylinder model Vitality OTC. It is available from this source:   www.fitzz.com

Open the home page for this source, locate the shop by manufacture space in the upper right hand corner, locate the Augusta Medical Systems from the drop down window and click on that name. Look for the Vitality three cylinder model when their page comes up, etc. Mention the word TEAM in your on line or phone order and you will get a discount from the company. You want this model: Vitality OTC three cylinder model which works for both ED and Peyronies Disease symptoms. It only costs a few bucks more, but has all the items you will need for your therapy protocol.

Since you are going for the three cylinder model, you will want to follow the 26 week protocol for three cylinder VEDs listed in the VED section of the boards.

Have any questions, let us know.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ashen on October 17, 2009, 06:29:25 PM
Thanks again, and also for all you contribute to this community.  It's greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on October 17, 2009, 08:34:41 PM
If you do order from fitzz, email this guy mark@fitzz.com.au as soon as you have ordered. There was a two week delay on my order being shipped, it was only shipped after I emailed him direct. No apology either.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: SimonBart on October 20, 2009, 09:18:47 AM
I've been using my new VED for just over 2 weeks now. First week was to get a feel for how it all worked. Second week started the 26 week program. Part way through week 3 now.

Quick question:
When I release the pressure after each cycle, my erection almost immediately goes down. Is this normal?
I am approaching this as an exercise.....so I'm not thinking about sex.....so I'm not naturally aroused at all.
When I remove the device....I have a large flaccid penis.....but definitely not hard.

Other then that....everything seems to be going fine. I am hoping that I will start to see improvements after a couple of months.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/deflation after VED usage
Post by: Old Man on October 20, 2009, 09:35:53 AM
SimonBart:

Yes, your penis will usually deflate after pumping in the exercise cycles. (Just be sure to hold the VED cylinder mouth firmly against your body to keep a good tight seal.) The real younger guys do get an erection while using the VED and their penis will not deflate after the exercises. This also might indicate that you have a venous leakage problem.

You should try to get a natural erection and hold it up long enough to determine if it deflates quickly or if you can perform, etc. Most guys in their middle life begin to get venous leakage based on how sexually active they have been during their earlier lives. Mine started at about age 55 and continued on until today. After a radical prostatectomy, the VED proved to be the weapon of choice for erections for me. It works great with no side effects as caused by the ED pills in a lot of cases.

So, be sure to check out the venous leakage thing to determine if you do have the problem. Otherwise, don't worry about your penis deflating after the VED therapy exercises, as this is normal for most guys.

Hope this helps, regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on October 20, 2009, 07:51:38 PM
hmm, naltrexone had started giving me great morning and nocturnal erections.

Have used VED for three days now, erections have stopped. I thought I was being quite conservative about hte pressure, does this sound like something that could be caused by using too much pressure?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on October 20, 2009, 08:09:51 PM
skunkworks

I was curious about the side effects of naltesone so I googled it.

This is just part of what I found.

Loss of appetite, diarrhea, constipation, increased thirst, increased energy, feeling down, irritability, dizziness, skin rash, delayed ejaculation, decreased potency, and chills.  

Be careful this can be mean stuff.

As for the VED just continue the protocol it takes time for it to work.

Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on October 21, 2009, 07:41:09 AM
Those sound like the potential side effects of full dose naltrexone, from what I remember. Low dose naltrexone is quite different, pretty much every male who is on it has commented on the intense morning erections it gives.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on October 21, 2009, 07:58:45 AM
I was searching around for an answer to this question, and found this post by Pete

QuoteMy uro had proposed VED-therapy. He said to me not to worry about it, it was a bit scar tissue because of masturbation friction orso, and that my age (28), the scar would be able to stretch just fine. And at that point things seemed to worsen. After i have used the VED, i cannot have an erection for a day orso, because it takes away 'all feeling', there is 'total numbness' after using it. I can also induce only a minor erection with it before it's starting to hurt. I have never pushed beyond the pain limits, but nonetheless i have seemed to have caused some permanent damage. The erection became back after rusing the VED, but is weaker than before. Do some guys recognize this? Should i keep using the VED despite of the numbness and lack of spontaneous erection after using it? Could VED induce nerve damage?

I have the same issue. The VED took away the good morning erections that LDN had brought on, but in my case the numb feeling is only slight. I can still manually get an erection, which does not subside.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on October 21, 2009, 08:05:49 AM
Also what do you guys think of this?

http://www.peyroniesassociation.org/x.php?p=Ask_the_Doctor,Archived_Answers#QCG

QuoteThe 3-cylinder (SOMA) vacuum device has been recommended as a non-surgical treatment for Peyronie's disease.  My personal approach has been to start with the largest cylinder so as to accommodate the curvature when it first presents.  As the curvature and deformity responds to the pressures created by the vacuum tube, one should progressively go to the middle and then the smallest of the caliber cylinders.  I typically recommend that this progression occur after at least one month of use of each cylinder, which should be applied for 20-30 minutes at least once, but possibly better 2-3 times per day.   There is no need to apply the constriction band.  I recommend that the pressure be maintained throughout the 20-30 minute treatment period rather than using a repetitive inflate/deflate process.  It seems to me the effects of traction are best transmitted with prolonged application rather than with intermittent application.  So far there are no published reports showing benefit with traction therapy, but hopefully a formal trial will be conducted in the near future which will provide better insight as to whether vacuum therapy really works to correct Peyronies Disease deformity.

QuoteThe key is that the device needs to be applied daily for no longer than 30 minutes per treatment, but these treatments can be done 2-3 times per day if the time is available to do so.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: cowboyfood on October 21, 2009, 09:29:20 AM
Quote from: skunkworks on October 21, 2009, 08:05:49 AM
Also what do you guys think of this?


I believe this particular advice has been discussed at length by many.  IMO, the forum's consensus is to use the 3-cylinder protocol listed in the forum's VED section. 

In fact, it might be a unanimous consensus.

CF
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on October 21, 2009, 08:58:24 PM
Ok I have done some digging, and this is what I have found. The people who created the current 3 cylinder protocol, were about to change it due to recommendations from Dr Levine before that website went down. They were the ones running the trial for the 3 cylinder VED.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080513141658/www.vacuumtherapy.org/extras.html

QuoteNEW PROTOCOL!
We will shortly be posting a new treatment protocol from leading Peyronie's researcher Dr. Laurence A. Levine. It takes a different approach to cylinder usage from the Spivey protocol and will be mentioned in several sessions of the upcoming AUA conference in Atlanta, May 20th. The protocol data is being assembled and details will e posted here as soon as they are available.

I think this is very important information, especially since the member on this forum who has had the best result from the VED, was using a single cylinder VED during the first part of his treatment.

I think we really need to find some way of getting in touch with Dr Levine to find out what the new treatment protocol was going to be.
Title: spivey
Post by: cowboyfood on October 21, 2009, 09:34:35 PM
skunkworks,

After looking at page you linked, I do not believe the site is attributing the "New Protocol" remarks to Chris Spivey.  Although at first glance, one could easily make that assumption.

I've seen some of the remarks which are located on that page, before and after the "new protocol" section, attributed to Spivey.  I'm willing to bet that the web page's author inserted the "new protocol" section, and is NOT attributing the remarks to Spivey.

Do some more "digging" on this site.  I think the "whys" of the 3-cylinder approach with a protocol similar to Spivey's protocol is well-documented on our forum.  The Levine suggestion is fairly "stale."

CF

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on October 21, 2009, 10:11:31 PM
At the moment we are using a protocol based on nothing but anecdotal evidence. If that is all we have, then that is fine. I am doing exactly what is recommended on this thread and others, following it to the letter in fact. But I am still going to try and find out more information, and hopefully proof about what is the best way to use a VED.

I am hoping to get some information from another source about the 3 cylinder study that may or may not have been completed, which should shed more light on the matter.

In my mind it comes down to who might have the most useful information. If the 3 cylinder study was completed, then Chris Spivy would most likely have the most useful information. If it was not, the Dr Levine would most likely have the most useful information due to his very large patient base, which in itself would be something of a never ending study of treatment effectiveness.

Yes you are right I did assume that the site was connected to Chris Spivey which looks to be a mistake. Can't find any email address for the Birmingham Urological Society, have a telephone number and address if someone in the US would care to give them a call about the 3 cylinder study:

Birmingham Urological Associates
1915 E 14 Mile Rd
Birmingham, MI 48009
(248) 642-4474
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: despise on October 21, 2009, 11:23:23 PM
I am interested in using a VED but It's hard for me to understand how to make one.

Here is a fairly priced ($72 plus shipping) and high-quality penis pump cylinder (many sizes, but not graduated like SomaCorrect). Note that they also sell the connecting couplers for the tubing:

http://www.stockroom.com/pumps.htm

Here is their FAQ about pumping (fairly well written; semi-accurate):

http://www.stockroom.com/suction-faq.htm#09

Here is a link to a typical handpump via the internet (less than half the price of most sex-toy vendors):

http://secure.sciencecompany.com/Vacuum-Pump-with-Pressure-Gauge-P6489C692.aspx

The total expenditures can come to about $120. Not bad to get going with something that can be controlled and moderated carefully (using the guage on the pump).>>>>


Could I buy the cylinder from stockroom and the pump from secure.sciencompany? Would I also need - "This male coupler can be pushed in to attach the pump hose to the cylinder. Compatible with most major brands of cylinders." That they advertise on the stockroom site to connect the pump to the cylinder? And would that be it?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on October 22, 2009, 10:13:03 AM
skunkworks:

Read your post about the Birmingham study of the three cylinder model VEDs. I have tried many times to contact that group to get a copy of their results of the study.

To date, have received no answer from them. BTW, Chris Spivey is a lady who is charge of the study as far as I know. Have tried to contact her personally, but no luck there either. There was a web site connected with the study originally, but I don't think it is still up and running either.
So, as far as I know, there seems to be no way to get any results from a three cylinder study for the three cylinder VEDs. We are just using the protocol that was developed by the Augusta Medical Systems for the old Somacorrect VED that was taken off the market due to some quirk of regulations by the FDA here in the USA.

The Soma STF VED was placed on the market as a result of that problem. In addition, they also started marketing the Vitality model VEDs which are basically the same as the Somacorrect which was supposed to be marketed for Peyronies Disease therapy. So go figure = who knows. The 26 week protocol is the only therapy that seems to work best for a lot of guys on and off the forum. I know that is has helped many of my friends who have used it.


Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on October 22, 2009, 10:25:03 AM
despise:

Tim468, Angus and several others on the forum have made their own VEDs. Hopefully, they will see your post and give your some information on how they built theirs and how you can make you one as well as where they bought their supplies.

There are several posts somewhere in the main forum boards that list how they made theirs, but at the moment, I cannot find them. You might do a search and see if you can find those.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ashen on October 22, 2009, 02:26:50 PM
So yesterday I received my Vitality Plus.  It only came with 2 cylinders though despite it saying there should be 3.  I have contacted Fitz but have not heard anything back yet.

My packing slip only listed the following 2 cylinders:

Style A Cylinder for Vitality Vacuum Therapy Systems (1 1/2" Diameter)
Style B Cylinder for Vitality Vacuum Therapy Systems (1 3/4" Diameter)

For those that ordered the Vitality Plus did you receive 2 or 3 cylinders?

I wanted to start using it but now it seems like things may be put on hold.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on October 22, 2009, 04:46:57 PM
ashen311;

Just read your post about the improper shipment from Fitzz of your VED. I called the Fitzz company and talked with their general manager. He stated they had gotten your request about the missing cylinder. He checked your order, found the cylinder was missing and the shipment of the correct one was handled and shipped to you today, 10/22/09.

He apologized for the problem and said he would check his shipping department to determine why shipment are going out wrong. They have some new personnel in the shipping department and probably did not check the order thorough enough.

Anyway, you should have the correct cylinder soon. BTW, the package normally comes with three cylinders as stated on the web site - A is the smallest, B is the medium and C is the largest. The Fitzz company builds the Vitality three cylinder model VED package from a standard erectile dysfunction package by adding the other cylinders and retainer rings, etc. What happend in your case was that the B medium cylinder got left out of the package by accident.

Let me know if you do not get the correct cylinders soon.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Ashen on October 22, 2009, 05:58:04 PM
Once again thank you Old Man.  They have emailed me back stating that the missing cylinder is on its way out.

Thanks so much!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: despise on October 22, 2009, 11:27:33 PM
Quote from: Old Man on October 22, 2009, 10:25:03 AM
despise:

Tim468, Angus and several others on the forum have made their own VEDs. Hopefully, they will see your post and give your some information on how they built theirs and how you can make you one as well as where they bought their supplies.

There are several posts somewhere in the main forum boards that list how they made theirs, but at the moment, I cannot find them. You might do a search and see if you can find those.

Old Man


Ok well I read the post that Angus made about how he made his and to be honest it was to confusing for me. So it just might be easier if I buy my own. I thought what I copied and paste was a cheap way of buying the parts separate and combining them.
Title: penis stretching
Post by: bummedout on October 25, 2009, 10:22:24 PM
was wondering if anyone tried this out

http://peyronies-disease-help.com/penis-stretching.html

Also, I haven't posted my monthly results lately because I stopped using the VED, mostly because I've been having real sex with a girl instead of a cylinder.  And although I have managed to have intercourse, I still have had no improvement in my condition.  Right now I'm mostly in the process of just trying to figure out how psychologically I'm gonna deal with this the rest of my life.  I'm thinking about it too much, keeping me distracted from other things in life.  Using the VED everyday just really isn't practical, especially when I'm still not even sure if I'm doing the exercises right, and that there is no assurance when and if it will work.  I haven't given up, just contemplating things.  Anyway, just thought I share some thoughts.

Go Yanks.

bummed
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on October 25, 2009, 10:36:58 PM
bummedout

Manual penile stretching does not work. If it did I would have a "big one".

A quick look at the link posted and IMHO it is designed to sell you there products.

Proper VED exercise works. It takes time and commitment. Usually 3-6 months to see results. The VED will help keep your penis healthy in ways manual stretching will not.

Many on this forum have had excellent results with the VED. To read mine see My History at the bottom of this post.

Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on October 25, 2009, 10:44:48 PM
Bumed - that is pretty much just an unsubstantiated sales page. Real traction devices do have one completed study at least backing them up. These people have very little, looks like they made that 'study' up on the spot.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bummedout on October 26, 2009, 05:54:03 PM
ok, this is what I figured, just thought I'd ask
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Pete28 on November 05, 2009, 07:40:24 AM
I've read the following concerning the use of penis pumps on the internet:

'They also tend to thin out the penis, making it very weak and reducing the duration of erections.'

Could this really happen? I thought the effect was just it makes the erection stonger and longer in duration. What's the scientific base on this? Or is it just nonsense in order to promote other penis enlargement stuff?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on November 05, 2009, 09:15:29 AM
Pete28

That is nonsense. Just trying to promote something else.

Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on November 05, 2009, 06:34:09 PM
Well I just discovered some penis measurements I took quite a while back (for vanity reasons I suspect).

Compared them to current measurements and the news is not all bad.

I have lost some length, but no girth!!!

So as I know where I was before Peyronie's, I have a great opportunity to properly gauge the VED and its effectiveness in restoring lost length. Then after that if it can actually give length (while used in the same non-aggressive manner).
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Jackieo on November 05, 2009, 06:46:59 PM
skunkworks:  Great news!
And, glad to see that you are giving credit to both the use of the VED and to supplements (Pentox, etc).
It is a crazy combination that seems to work. 
I have gained my girth back as well as most of the lost length....still working on a slight "bend".  I did a measured drawing back in May...it has been excellent at showing me what is really happening month to month.
I hope you have continued improvement. JackieO
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: despise on November 05, 2009, 07:43:11 PM
Can anyone help me out and guide me to what VED I should buy? And how to use it? I have noticed I have lost some length and I am having trouble with my sexual performance. I'm only 18 so there's no way im going to let this continue. Doing anything and everything I can to get this disease better and I believe in physical therapy a lot more than oral, such as hypothermia and massaging the peyronies. Help would be greatly appreciated guys! =]
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on November 05, 2009, 08:52:30 PM
despise

Send Old Man a PM he is the best with the VED.

Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on November 05, 2009, 09:38:21 PM
Despise most on here recommend the 3 cylinder Vitality package, from a website called fitzz. Google that and you will find it no problems. No need for a prescription either.

http://www.google.com/search?q=3+cylinder+fitzz&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_enAU295AU296 (http://www.google.com/search?q=3+cylinder+fitzz&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_enAU295AU296)

Result 1 is this site, result two is the website you should check out.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on November 06, 2009, 07:04:34 AM
Jackieo:

Actually I have only really used the VED for two weeks, more as practice so I would not think any success so far is due to the VED. I am cautiously optimistic now though.

I think that maybe I got on pentox and some quality erection boosters early enough that I may have saved myself from a lot more damage. Pentox stopped the actual process, erection boosters keep sending in good amounts of oxygenated blood for healing, the erections themselves keep stretching the penis. Hopefully VED will be the last piece in the puzzle and help me regain that lost bit of length.

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: despise on November 06, 2009, 11:24:27 PM
Quote from: jackp on November 05, 2009, 08:52:30 PM
despise

Send Old Man a PM he is the best with the VED.

Jackp

Thank you Jackp!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: despise on November 06, 2009, 11:24:53 PM
Quote from: skunkworks on November 05, 2009, 09:38:21 PM
Despise most on here recommend the 3 cylinder Vitality package, from a website called fitzz. Google that and you will find it no problems. No need for a prescription either.

http://www.google.com/search?q=3+cylinder+fitzz&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_enAU295AU296 (http://www.google.com/search?q=3+cylinder+fitzz&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_enAU295AU296)

Result 1 is this site, result two is the website you should check out.

Thank you once again skunk!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on November 08, 2009, 11:18:20 AM
Hi

I've been offered surgery, but I'm reluctant to take it until I've ruled out once and for all the possibility that VED therapy could make a real difference in my case. I've tried the protocol as recommended on this site but with only small and temporary benefits. To me it seemed to require too little time with the penis stretched/engorged to have any chance of working. It didn't for me, but obviously has for some.

My uro has given me another far more rigorous regime ( six cycles of 1 minute pumping up followed by a 4 minute hold, twice a day. i.e. two 30 minute sessions, for 6 months ). I tried this and only lasted for less than a week. My penis got too sore. Probably I was pumping too hard. Another problem was that I found it well nigh impossible to hold the vacuum for 4 minutes. The air just gradually seeped out and I had to re-pump, and eventually I just completely lost the discipline. So I gave up on it.

Anyway, my question is.... does anyone else follow this or a similar regime? If so, how do you manage to hold the vacuum for long periods without the air seeping out? Is there a knack to it? I'd really appreciate any advice because I want to follow this regime, and I feel that if I can get it right it stands a chance of working. The only alternative the way I am right now is to pray for a miracle breakthrough with xiaflex, or surgery. Thanks.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on November 08, 2009, 05:32:09 PM
shrout:

I totally disagree with the regimen that your uro put you on with the VED. The time elements he proposes is just way too much "trauma" on your penis. The 26 week protocol is based on one of the best treatments that so far has shown any good results. VED therapy just does not work for all guys, so keep that in mind. You may be one of those who do not see good results.

However, I highly recommend that you resume the 26 week course and this time be sure to use plenty of lubricant inside the mouth of the cylinder(s) and also on up into the cylinder. In addition, use plenty on the shaft of your penis. Have you tried trimming off the pubic hair around the base of your shaft? It not, you might shave off enough of it to allow for a clean surface for the mouth of the cylinder to work against. The lubricant provides a slippery surface for the shaft to slide easily into and out of the mouth of the cylinder as well as providing a seal so that the vacuum pressure is not lost when pumping up. VED therapy takes a bit of practice to get the hang of the right procedure.

Try doing several things different from what you have been doing, especially the lubricant thing. I have found when working with guys that they are reluctant to use enough lube to get the best results.

If there is anything that any of the VED users on the forum can do to help, feel free to ask questions. There are many guys using the VED therapy and surely some have other suggestions to offer for you.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: cowboyfood on November 08, 2009, 07:06:55 PM
Old Man,

I agree with you.

Based on my experience during my first 6 months of VED usage, shrout's uro sounds like he doesn't have much experience with a VED....four minutes sounds pretty rough.

I found trimming the hair necessary or else negative pressure escapes. 

I get the impression that some are expecting results too soon...IMO, you should focus on getting into a routine of daily VED usage and using the VED correctly.  This in itself takes some time...think of it as going on a diet...many have to "start over' because they either did not follow the diet on a regular basis or conducted the diet improperly.

Then, once a person is committed and performing the cycles appropriately, they should sit back for a while and not worry to much about improvement becoming noticeable immediately.  For me, one of the first improvements I noticed had nothing to do with deforminty reversal, but had to do with the quality of my erections (improved).  I can't say for sure whether the VED or my improved psychological state of mind caused the good erections; but, I know the VED itself improved me psychologically. 

So, either directly or indirectly, I believe the VED helped me with erections.

CF

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on November 08, 2009, 08:58:40 PM
Were you very cautious with pressure at the start CBF?

I just took two weeks off from using the VED because I think I was not cautious enough. I started waking up without an erection, even when I had taken cialis before bed.

Now whatever I did seems to have healed, so I will be starting again very cautiously.

Everyone told me less is more beforehand, but I did not realize just how careful we need to be.

Very glad to hear VED helped you with erections.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on November 08, 2009, 09:04:52 PM
I agree the doctor has you causing too much trauma to your penis. I also thought more was better before I got in touch with Old Man.

I ruptured a blood vessel and it took a while to heal. That is when I found the forum and started doing what Old Man suggested.

Trimming hair helps hold pressure with plenty of lube.

A tip on lube. Go to Walmart and get the store brand. It is cheap and works just as well as the name brand.

Jackp
Title: Shrout
Post by: Angus on November 09, 2009, 12:19:13 AM

   Four minutes is too long, and you had too much vacuum. Please go back to the 26 week protocol. The VED teaches patience. This is not a quick fix. A year, year and a half is not un-common for results and improvement. You have got to give the VED time, and lots of it. I'm sure your doc is trying to help, but in this case he's trying to re-invent the wheel.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on November 09, 2009, 02:31:35 AM
Quote from: jackp on November 08, 2009, 09:04:52 PM
I ruptured a blood vessel and it took a while to heal. That is when I found the forum and started doing what Old Man suggested.

How long did it take to heal Jackp?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on November 09, 2009, 10:56:06 AM
Thanks for your replies, your opinions and advice

It's actually something of a relief that you regard the regime I was given as inappropriate. The dedication required to perform it for 6 months would have been quite arduous. It sounds like you believe it might actually have been harmful, so that's also a relief. The uro concerned works in one of the UK's top teaching hospitals, UCH in London, so he's no mug. But as you say, it doesn't necessarily mean he's a Peyronies expert, still less an expert on the use of the VED. You guys have walked the walk.

I am going to give the VED another go. Hopefully I'll be able to follow the recommended protocol to the letter, or possibly adapt it somewhat if necessary. But if there are no clear signs of improvement after 26 weeks I'll consider calling it a day there. As you say OM, there are some guys who it just doesn't work for, and I may be one of them.  If necessary I''ll try using more lube. But I don't have any difficulty maintaining a vacuum for the much shorter holds this site's protocol recommends, so I've never found it necessary to trim the pubic hair.

Once again, thanks all for your advice and encouragement.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on November 09, 2009, 01:11:10 PM
SW

It took about 4 weeks to heal. I went to the doctor and he gave a cream to put on it and it helped a lot.

Jackp
Title: Assembling a Vitality (Augusta Medical 3 Cylinder) from Fitzz
Post by: olddog on November 09, 2009, 10:37:51 PM
OK, this is embarrassing, but I have an Augusta Medical with the 3 cylinders from Fitzz, and I'm darned if I can see how it goes together for the small cylinders.

Can someone please advise?

Parts are:

1 manual pump with O ring, large diameter, will only mate with the largest cylinder
1 large cylinder, the only one that mates with the actual pump. (Call it "C")
1 medium cylinder ("B")
1 small cylinder ("A")
Two rubber donut-like sizing adapters; one small and one large

As noted, the large cylinder is the only one to actually mate with the pump using an O ring and twist lock, so I'm figuring from that and some comments that to use the smaller cylinders you nest them inside the large one.

But how to do it and retain a vacuum is escaping me.

Neither small cylinder nor medium will mate directly with the pump.

Inserting either medium or small directly in the large won't work ... no seal and it just falls in.  So clearly the two black seals are meant to assist in the nesting.  But ...

1. Using the large rubber donut  in the base of the large "C" tube, then and inserting the medium "B" tube in the donut is a bad force fit ... the "B" cylinder won't slide in easily.  And besides, the "B" tube has 3 longitudinal ribs on the outside that will break the air seal.
2.  By itself the small rubber donut just falls into the large "C" tube.  But the small rubber donut **will** nest in the large donut.  This will allow the "A" small tube to be inserted, but it too feels like a bad force fit, and also has those longitudinal stripes that will probably break a vacuum seal.

So how does this &**&(^&*^* thing go together?  "C" looks just fine, but from what I read that's for late in the protocol; I need to get A and B to work.  And at least the way I'm fitting them, they are too tight to fit inside the donuts then inside the big "C" cylinder.

Ideas?  Pictures?  I'm sure it's something obvious I'm missing.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on November 09, 2009, 10:58:35 PM
olddog:

Sorry you are having problems with the three cylinder VED. However, it is easy to assemble. You place the large o ring on the pump behind the tabs that stick out from the base,etc. You then take the A small cylinder, place inside the B medium cylinder and then place both inside the C large cylinder. Place the small sizing insert inside the large one and push them into the large open end of the assembled cylinders. Mate up this assy. to the pump by making sure the tabs on the cylinder ends match the tabs on the pump, twist the cylinders clockwise onto the pump and it is assembled. Do not over tighten this which could cause the o ring to be damaged - just tight enough to keep a good tight seal when pumping.

After using the 26 week protocol for the first two weeks, you simply leave out the A small cylinder and so on down the protocol until you reach the large cylinder therapy schedule.

If you have further questions, give me a private message and I will help further.

Old Man

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on November 09, 2009, 11:11:44 PM
olddog:

You can also assemble the cylinders another way if it would be easier for you. After placing the o ring on the pump, place the large C cylinder onto the pump first. Then mate the A inside the B and slide them into the C that is already onto the pump. Then you can mate the small sizing insert inside the large and push them into the mouth of the large C cylinder.

Another caution note: Be sure that you use plenty of lubricant on your shaft and plenty of lube well up into the small cylinder during the first two weeks of the protocol schedule. Then thereafter use plenty as necessary to cause a good slippery surface on your shaft and inside the cylinders. When using the A small cylinder you want the shaft to be able to be easily pulled up as far as possible into the cylinder without causing any irritation, pain or discomfort. If you experience any of this, you are doing something wrong and should stop pumping until you find out the cause, etc. Special note about lubricant: After you use up the tube of lube that came with the package, you can purchase any good brand of personal lubricant from any local drug store. I use the Equate brand of personal lubricant from Walmart which costs around $2.00 per tube.

Again, give me a private message at any time if you need to. VED therapy should not cause any pain or discomfort to you, so be careful with the vacuum pressure. VED therapy is a case where less is better than more pressure. A consistent daily routine of VED therapy is much better. So, follow the schedule to the letter if at all possible.

Old Man.
Title: VED leaking air
Post by: bodoo2u on November 25, 2009, 09:46:42 AM
Fellas, I'm back after a long absence. I resolved the issue of my leaking VED by buying clear sealer that is suitable for kitchen counters, and other surfaces that will hold food. The water was leaking in the area where the top attaches to the tube. I noticed it leaking when I put water in the tube to clean it

Now I have another issue, albeit a physical one, and don't laugh at me: is it possible for continuous use of the smallest tube to somehow make my penis smaller in diameter? I can be smaller or larger in girth, depending on the stiffness of my erection, but I noticed my penis was more compact  after a VED session with the smallest tube.

Can anyone help me out on this?
Title: boodoo2
Post by: cowboyfood on November 25, 2009, 10:16:26 AM
bd2,

The negative pressure in the "b" and "c" tube expand your girth significantly more than the "a" tube.  The protocol starts out with an emphasis on the "a" and "b" tubes, and finishes with an emphasis on the "c" tube.  So, I doubt that what you proposed is a concern.

CF
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on December 02, 2009, 03:19:58 AM
anyone - or even oldman - what do you think of this - I found it on a website::

Besides the serious injury that men develop while doing mechanical penis stretching, an even larger basic problem is that these penis enlargement devices can only stretch normal tissue, not scar tissue. Allow me to explain: In Peyronies Disease, the internal Peyronies Disease scar material is connected to and contained within normal tissue inside the penis, similar to having a scab on the skin – but on the inside.

If you stretch skin that has a scab on it, would the scab stretch also because the skin was stretched? No, of course not. The normal skin would stretch, while the scab would remain unchanged. The same thing happens if you try to stretch the Peyronies Disease scar forcefully with a mechanical device.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on December 02, 2009, 10:18:24 AM
Iceman, this makes for a good fireside conversation, but it seems to be an insolvable problem or question.

If penis enlargement works (and it may for some), it works by stretching out normal tissue. If we achieve lengthening on our short side by a pongitudinal stretch, it may well happen due to differential stretching of the normal tissue and not a stretching out of the scarred tissue at all. The normal tissue on the short side would still be subject to a greater stretching force because it will be tethered short by the scar.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter if the penis is straighter and functional. However, anecdotal evidence here of "thinner" plaques, or "dissolving" scar tissue suggests that at least some of the stretching force IS applied to the scar and that it has an effect.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/problems related to use
Post by: Old Man on December 02, 2009, 10:26:25 AM
Iceman:

There really are no formal studies that I know of anywhere that state the actual results of VED therapy. About all we have to rely on is the experiences of men who have used them and come back on the forum to report their success or failure from the therapy.

Just hope that guys using the VED therapy would realize that their posting either negative or positive about their therapy experience would help others with their decision to use or not to use the VED. We see guys come on the forum, get the help they want and then just disappear as fast as they came on, etc. We need all the experience the forum can get on whatever therapy a person uses, so guys, please post your results.

Now to answer your question about injury to ones penis from using any mechanical device for stretching or exercise: No matter what one is using for their therapy, caution in the amount of vacuum pressure, spring pressure on the traction devices or if they are using physical hand therapy (this can work in some cases if used in moderation) must be used to obtain good results. Overdoing any exercise on ones penis can and will result in further trauma, so be careful in what you do with any therapy for Peyronies Disease.

You are right about the scab example in that it won't stretch, but will probably release itself from the good tissue and maybe cause further damage. However, plaque on the tunica is simply just a part of the tunica and is really not like a scab on an injury elsewhere on the body. Gentle stretching of the tunica and plaque is about the only way to go with exercise for Peyronies Disease. Again, overstretching it most likely result in further trauma.

Therapy for Peyronies Disease is the real question of the century. Since all cases of Peyronies Disease are different is some way, one set rule of thumb for therapy can not be established. What works for one guy may or may not work the next guy. One just has to keep trying whatever they can to see what works for them. I strongly urge all to just try one treatment at a time to establish if it works. Trying more than one at a time will not establish which worked due to the duplication, etc.

Hope the above helps. Let me know if there is any other questions you have.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: parajack on December 05, 2009, 10:23:53 AM
After practicing for a week or so, I'm in my first week of the 26 week protocol, and had a question.  Using cylinder A, I'm having difficulty getting my penis far enough in to make the system work, and it seems like this is not being very effective.  I don't consider myself 'large', but I clearly am not able to get the cylinder anywhere near the base which kind of renders the exercise ineffective.  If I use the B cyclinder, it seems to work quite well, and I can actually feel pressure on the tunica when reasonable pressure is applied.  Should I just sub the B for A weeks, or should I work harder at making the A cylinder work?

Also, as an observation, it seems as though once I've done the VED 'workout', I might actually be able to have a go at intercourse again, as it seems as though things are 'limbered up' enough to where the pain level may be low enough to have at it....  Despite starting the PAV cocktail, without the V early on in the acute stages, I seem to have progressed fairly rapidly, and now have an upward bend of the upper third of 20 deg or so with a hard erection.  My uro mentioned at my last visit that he didn't think an ultrasound would show anything as he thought the condition of the tunica was not calcified or scarred enough to show up....  It will be interesting to see what his opinion is at my next visit in early Jan....

Jack
Title: "A" tube
Post by: cowboyfood on December 05, 2009, 01:04:07 PM
parajack,

The VED's "A" tube frustrated me too.  But, Old Man has always encouraged its use despite the tube's constraints.  However, I believe use of the A tube has its benefit, despite the fact that it does not engorged the penis to the size of a natural erection in some cases, like myself.

The way Old Man explained it to me, and from what I could tell myself, the "A" tube is stretching the penis lengthwise in a way no natural erection can stretch the penis.

I completed my first protocol several weeks ago, and I am now into my second protocol.  I found that after a lot of practice (months), I was able to use the "A" tube more effectively than I did in the beginning.  

Never overpump, and just pump until you know its time to stop even though your penis' engorged state is not as large as your natural erection state.  I think you should feel free to use the "B" a few times in place of the "A" tube in order to help you out psychologically.  I know I did this several times.  But, generally, you should follow the protocol to the "letter" (but, some substitutions are fine every now and then, IMO).  

I think it took me about a month to officially start the protocol, after discounting practice and starting and restarting to get it right.

CF
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/using VED protocol
Post by: Old Man on December 05, 2009, 01:18:16 PM
parajack:

I had written you an answer to your post, but in the meantime, CBF jumped in and answered your question. He has been through the "training period so to speak" with the protocol and knows the ropes now.

Follow his advice and you should soon see your desired results. Patience in getting used to vacuum therapy is really not a piece of cake = it takes dedication and perseverance to learn how to properly do the exercises. So, take your time, use the proper procedure using plenty of lube especially when using the small A cylinder.

The A cylinder as CBF states is one of the most important steps in the VED therapy. It sort of trains ones penis to be pulled lengthwise as much as possible to exert the most stretching as possible in that direction. The B and C cylinders allows the penis to be stretched lengthwise and in girth.

Hopefully his post and this one will help you get started on the right path. Let us know if there is anything else we can help with for you.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: parajack on December 06, 2009, 03:26:24 AM
Thanks CBF and Old Man...  I get what you're saying and I'll stick with the A cylinder.  On another front, I'm now the proud owner of my first Viagra prescription.  Is their a good thread to read up on the best way to use the V in my treatment?  My wife saw the bottle and I caught her eyes lighting up even though she tried to hide it...
Jack
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Viagra addition to therapy
Post by: Old Man on December 06, 2009, 08:07:56 AM
Jack:

You should get an answer from the guys that are using Viagra in the mix with the VED treatment. It did nothing for me since I had a radical prostatectomy way back in 1995. It left me totally out of the picture sexually due to a non nerve sparing surgery. Today, with the robotic surgery, nerves are more likely to be spared, but then they were mostly removed to get all the cancer.

I am sure that you will be getting all kinds of recommendations about using Viagra though. For those who it works for are really enjoying their newfound source of sexual activity. However, one should follow the prescribed dosages and not use more than is necessary to produce the desired results.

The above is just my take on using any ED pills. All three of them can and will produce good results, they all just have different side effects.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: cowboyfood on December 06, 2009, 04:25:06 PM
Quote from: parajack on December 06, 2009, 03:26:24 AM
Is their a good thread to read up on the best way to use the V in my treatment? 

Yep, read the "oral treatments" thread, or just search w/ keyword "viagra", and I suggest an advanced search that specifies a member name, in particular Tim468, Hawk, or George999.

I started using 25 mg (a 100 mg pill cut into four pieces using a pill cutter bought from CVS) each night right before going to bed.

Now, I am using 25mg Viagra every other night.

Any further discussions on Viagra should be moved to the oral treatments board.

CF
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Bart2 on December 10, 2009, 10:09:29 PM
Hello Everyone,

I would like to start off by stating that I have been posting in various threads about my condition. To get this thread up to speed with my course of action; my uro prescribed pentox, L-arg, and a VED...for which I am supposed to go in for "training" on how to use it at the beginning of the new year (Also when I am supposed to purchase it). I also bought balanced vitamin E. Based on these posts, I will be hesistant to buy a VED from the uro unless it is a 3 cylinder model, and I will likely resort to purchasing that Vitality Plus 3 cylinder model anyways.

One of the major things I wanted to ask, which I will post a duplicate of in the traction device forum, is whether anyone has ever considered attempting a treatment regiment consisting of concomitant use of a VED with a traction device? Reading the previous posts, everyone seems to suggest that less is more and that one needs to be careful with how much stress one puts on their member, and that duplicating treatments at the same time may not tell you which one is actually providing results, but if one approaches such a "double" regimen conservatively could it not be beneficial? I am 23, I have a downwards curve of about 60-70 degrees and a leftwards curve of about 15-20 degrees. The troubling part for me is that I cannot really feel a plaque, and neither could the uro, so unless the plaque is internally located then I may have a congenital curvature (And honestly I am no expert but it almost does look like the left corpora is bending the whole penis because it is possibly shorter). So in my case, a traction device would seem more of a plausible treatment approach, but with the uro's suggestion and many positive results on this forum, I have been considering the VED as well. That's why I am wondering, if I am to invest a lot of time (And money) into trying to treat this, then I really want to approach things fairly aggressively, and when I say aggressive not to the point where I cause trauma myself. There is almost that depressing belief that if nothing has changed after 6 months, then not only has time and money been wasted, but where has it lead one to? Although I am not afraid of surgery, I do not want 6 months of using one treatment as an almost deciding factor on whether I go for surgery or not.

What are peoples' opinions of this combinatorial approach? Although there are seemingly no studies detailing the effectiveness of either physical therapy, except maybe those FastSize studies and quite possibly some SizeGenetics studies in Europe, can people provide an objective, rather than biased subjective opinion? Being a VED thread, I would hope people do not jump to the conclusion of preferring one treatment over the other. Thanks a lot guys,

Bart   
Title: Fitzz and Email Spam Sales
Post by: olddog on December 11, 2009, 08:09:48 AM
Folks ...

Can't prove it to 100%, but after purchasing a (very satisfactory and high quality) Augusta Medical VED from Fitzz I've received a very large increase in erectile-dysfunction-related email spam.  There's a good chance they sell their customer lists.

The easy way to defeat this is to get an throw-away email from Google or Hotmail for the purchase period or for similar junkmail uses.

OD
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/mailing lists
Post by: Old Man on December 11, 2009, 10:19:13 AM
olddog:

I have asked the Fitzz company about them selling their mailing lists where the customer shows their email addresses when placing an order.

Their answer from their president is that they never do that, but have had this happen in the past. Seems like some hacker tapped into their resources and "stole" the addresses, etc. This may have happened again. So, you might want to report this to the Fitzz company by email or phone.

Old Man
Title: "A" tube
Post by: cowboyfood on December 11, 2009, 10:59:15 AM
All,

I thought I'd pass along some observations I made during the first six months of VED usage with regards to the A tube because some members/guests may experience some difficulty using this tube because of its narrow diameter.

First, make sure you have sufficient lubrication. 

Second, press the pressure release button while you place your penis inside the VED.

Finally, (and best practice for good stretches IMO), do not remove the VED from your penis after finishing a "cycle."  In other words, start with your first cycle; when you're done pumping and holding for that cycle, release the negative pressure but do not remove the VED from your penis; let your penis relax in the VED for a bit, then proceed with the second cycle.

I hope this is understandable.  I noticed when I removed the VED after a cycle, my penis would only get stretched about three-fourths of the way.  But, when I do not remove the VED, I can usually get great stretches.

Any additional observations from others would be appreciated.

CF
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on December 13, 2009, 08:20:18 AM
Good advice CBF.

Standing to get started and then lying down later helps too. Starting while in bed can make it harder to get it started as well.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on December 13, 2009, 08:05:01 PM
CBF - Have you seen any results after using the VED for six months?
Title: First 6 months
Post by: cowboyfood on December 13, 2009, 10:26:34 PM
skunkworks,

From what I could tell, I had about a 25 degree upward bend beginning around the last third of my penis...this presented just about a year ago.  Also, an indentation on the right side about an inch below the glans.  I did not have much if any of a left, right or downward bend, only the upward bend.  I started the VED the end of the following  April.  

The following are my observations.  My upward bend is basically gone.  I do not notice it visually, and the photos I took indicate it is pretty much gone.  

The indentation progressed to the left side from the first of the year until about July.  It's kind of an hourglass, but when I'm fully erect, it's barely noticeable on the left side, and somewhat noticeable on the right side; so, the dent is noticeable when I'm getting erect, and not that apparent when I'm fully erect.  

Erections began improving towards the end of last May, and continued to improve to this very day.  In fact, they are probably better than when I noticed this condition last December.  Nocturnal erections are almost nightly; and, I don't think they were nearly that frequent pre-condition.  My erections can occur without any manual stimulation during the daytime.

My treatment has been the VED protocol, adding pentox and viagra last May, and daily intake of L-arginine and ALC...I added D3 and niacin during the summer.

I'd like to post some photos on the web for others on the forum to see.

So, my indentation remains, but is not that visually noticeable.  The upward bend is much less, if not eliminated, and erections are better.  

Speaking of the VED, I'm off to do an "A" tube session.

CF
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on December 13, 2009, 11:50:57 PM
CBF - great news - sounds like its working for you.....also it would be good to see some pics of improvement so i can compare
Title: cant get erection with VED...
Post by: need_help on December 14, 2009, 07:58:51 PM
Hi guys. I have recently (past few weeks) been trying to use a VED to treat my peyronies disease and ED. However, I have been having a lot of trouble getting an erection with the VED - I can only get one if I have a lot of visual/mental stimulation, otherwise it barely works. Impossible for me to get an erection 10 times (one for each cycle of the treatment protocol) even with the visual/mental stimulation

I have read through this forum and tried all the tips recommended - I have trimmed my public hair, I apply a lot of lube but still not much luck although the vacuum is definately tight.  I am wondering if I am doing something really wrong because apparently it should work without any visual/mental stimulation. Or is my peyronies/ED too severe (seems unlikely?).

Bit of background about me - I am 34 years old and believe the peyronies started about 10 years ago but it wasnt diagnosed till about 7 years ago. ED slowly progressed but has been a real problem since about 3-4 years ago. Probably have lost about 1 inch in length, and some girth too. Am in the early stage of a relationship with a girl that means a lot to me - the first "proper" girlfriend since the peyronies started. I was hoping that the intimacy of a proper relationship would help things to work out, but so far erections havent been great, and dont sustain although we havent tried to have full intercourse yet. Hoping that the VED will provide some improvement and I think it is - but would like to use it more effectively.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on December 14, 2009, 08:07:33 PM
I am slowly getting used to the A cylinder, but am still somewhat skeptical that it is a good idea to be putting 2" wide penis into a 1.5" wide tube.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on December 14, 2009, 08:22:12 PM
needs help

Are you breaking the seal between cycles? Could be a leak in the cylinder or at the attachment.

Which VED are you using.

Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: need_help on December 14, 2009, 08:50:18 PM
Hey jackp.

I do keep the seal between cycles as people have suggested, just release the pressure. I am using the 3 cyclinder soma model, I think its the soma "correct" ? I prefer to do the excercises when sitting on the edge of my sofa - it doesnt work well if I'm standing up. And I do the 5 pumps then wait 5-10 seconds technique, but this doesn't seem to work unless I'm visually stimulated. Maybe I should pump for longer but after a while it doesn't feel like its adding anything to my erection, or lack of it. How long do you normally pump for?

Tried the pump on my abdomen as a test and it definately pulls that fine, and doesn't appear to leak.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LWillisjr on December 14, 2009, 10:22:20 PM
need_help....

PM Old Man...   he is the expert on the forum for VEDs.  My understanding is that you should not need any stimulation for an erection. If the seal is tight and the vaccum correct, then blood should flow into the penis and casue an erection as a result of the vacuum. I've not used a VED however, and is why I encourage you to contact Old_Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on December 14, 2009, 10:26:52 PM
need help

You need to PM Old Man. I have not used a VED in almost 14 months since I had my implant, and I used a different model. 

Old Man is the expert.

Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on December 15, 2009, 05:27:02 AM
Wow, seems I've gained back almost a full centimeter!!

Whether it is because of better quality erections or from stretching via VED and traction, is impossible to tell. But it is quite heartening to see.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/procedure for use
Post by: Old Man on December 15, 2009, 06:25:17 AM
skunkworks:

You did not say in your post below, but did you get my PM about some tips on using the VED properly? Let us know so the forum can be told what helped for you.

Patience with using any model VED for Peyronies Disease and ED is of the utmost importance. You simply cannot hurry the procedure or else you can and will cause further trauma. In addition, you will not get the desired results with improper use as you already know from your experience.

So, let us have your take on how things are going for you now with the VED protocol.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Change if prices
Post by: Old Man on December 15, 2009, 05:38:57 PM
NOTE TO ALL:

I AM USING CAPS FOR THIS POST TO DRAW MORE ATTENTION TO IT.

I HAVE JUST BEEN INFORMED BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE FITZZ COMPANY THAT THEY HAVE BEEN FORCED TO RAISE THE PRICES OF THE VITALITY PLUS THREE CYLINDER MANUAL MODEL VED WHICH IS LISTED AS SKU AM1000P ON THEIR WEB SITE.

THE CURRENT PRICE OF THAT MODEL VED IS NOW $254.00 AFTER RECEIVING A $75.00 DISCOUNT FROM THE LIST OF $329.00. THIS PRICE WILL BE GOOD UNTIL JANUARY 31, 2010. ON FEBRUARY 1, 2010, THE PRICE WILL BE $279.00 AFTER A $50.00 DISCOUNT FROM THE LIST PRICE OF $329.OO.

THESE DISCOUNTS WILL BE AVAILABLE TO FORUM MEMBERS BY MENTIONING THE COUPON CODE OF ''PFORUM'' AT THE TIME OF PLACING THE ORDER. SO, MAKE SURE THIS CODE IS TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION AT THE PLACEMENT OF ORDERS FOR THE ABOVE VED OR ANY OTHER PRODUCTS FROM THIS COMPANY. PRESIDENT MARK OSENGA OF THE FITZZ COMPANY REGRETS THIS PRICE INCREASE IS NECESSARY, BUT THE MANUFACTURER HAS RAISED THIER PRICE SO HE HAS TO INCREASE HIS ACCORDINGLY.

SORRY FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE THIS PLACES ON ANY FORUM MEMBER. THIS POST CARRIES MY USUAL DISCLAIMER THAT I DO NOT RECEIVE ANY COMPENSATION OR MONETARY CONSIDERATION FROM THE FITZZ COMPANY IN ANY REGARD. I ONLY WORK WITH THE COMPANY AS LIASION TO ASSIST MEMBERS WITH ORDERS AND ANY PROBLEMS THAT MAY ARISE.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Bart2 on December 15, 2009, 11:36:14 PM
Hey guys,

Old Man, are they having any Christmas sales at Fitzz haha joking.

I want to apologize for my convulted post last time unless people took time to read it no one would know what I wanted to ask from it.

All I wanted to ask is whether people have ever considered, or know of someone on this forum that actually has used the VED and traction devices in combination? Also, what are more experienced members opinions' on such a treatment protocol? This is something I am considering and something that has been brought up before me so I was hoping to get any advice/opinion on it.

Many thanks,

Bart
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Bart2 on December 15, 2009, 11:42:11 PM
I wanted to mention that I can see that additional stress could be harmful on the penis, so of course the regimen would have to be conservative. Of course time is a big factor too, especially for the traction device.
Title: Bart15
Post by: Angus on December 16, 2009, 12:18:21 AM

   I don't remember anyone here actually using traction and a VED system at the same time, but there are some who used one then the other. I had success with the VED so if any personal bias shows through it's because I have no experience with a traction device. I know there are those who have used traction without injury and there are many who have used a VED without injury, so it would seem that the two techniques could be used during the same time period. All warnings posted about VED use (conservative pumping, no pain, etc.) should be applied in spirit to traction as well I would think as both are a type of physical therapy that absolutely needs to be done with no pain or extreme pumps (VED) or settings (traction). If you get no replies from any who have used these two things at the same time and you decide to move forward with this, remember that when we say "less is more" we're referring to resisting the temptation to pump up an extreme erection or set a traction device with an extreme pull thinking that this would hasten penile rehabilitation. As in any type of rehab, there is no magic, quick bullet in the VED or I would think a traction device; the VED takes time and dedication to see improvement and I would think the same applies to a traction device. The risk of injury with these things is heightened by any extreme settings or pumping, so your thought of conservatism is good. Just go easy and stop if you start to have pain and re-evaluate the settings and what you are doing. Stop and ask questions here if you feel discomfort with the therapies before moving on.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/procedure for use
Post by: skunkworks on December 16, 2009, 02:41:50 AM
Quote from: Old Man on December 15, 2009, 06:25:17 AM
skunkworks:

You did not say in your post below, but did you get my PM about some tips on using the VED properly? Let us know so the forum can be told what helped for you.

Patience with using any model VED for Peyronies Disease and ED is of the utmost importance. You simply cannot hurry the procedure or else you can and will cause further trauma. In addition, you will not get the desired results with improper use as you already know from your experience.

So, let us have your take on how things are going for you now with the VED protocol.

Old Man

I hadn't actually noticed the PM. What I am doing with the A cylinder is only using it on days when I am pretty sure I won't get an erection during my VED session. If I feel like I will get hard, I use the B cylinder. It seems to be working out pretty well, but I am only doing it because having an erection while in the A tube was quite uncomfortable given it was 1.5' wide and I am 2' wide. The one thing I do like about the A cylinder is that it forces a lot of blood into the head of the penis.

I am taking it easy with the pressure, and no longer have the issue of no nocturnal erections after using the VED. In fact it is quite the opposite, erection quality is through the roof.

Bart15 - I use VED and traction. I work from home so using it is no issue, and I tend to use it two hours a day. No idea if it is helping or not but it definitely isn't hindering.

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/Change if prices
Post by: Fred22 on December 16, 2009, 10:09:35 AM
Quote from: Old Man on December 15, 2009, 05:38:57 PM
NOTE TO ALL:

I AM USING CAPS FOR THIS POST TO DRAW MORE ATTENTION TO IT.

I HAVE JUST BEEN INFORMED BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE FITZZ COMPANY THAT THEY HAVE BEEN FORCED TO RAISE THE PRICES OF THE VITALITY PLUS THREE CYLINDER MANUAL MODEL VED WHICH IS LISTED AS SKU AM1000P ON THEIR WEB SITE.

THE CURRENT PRICE OF THAT MODEL VED IS NOW $254.00 AFTER RECEIVING A $75.00 DISCOUNT FROM THE LIST OF $329.00. THIS PRICE WILL BE GOOD UNTIL JANUARY 31, 2010. ON FEBRUARY 1, 2010, THE PRICE WILL BE $279.00 AFTER A $50.00 DISCOUNT FROM THE LIST PRICE OF $329.OO.

THESE DISCOUNTS WILL BE AVAILABLE TO FORUM MEMBERS BY MENTIONING THE COUPON CODE OF ''PFORUM'' AT THE TIME OF PLACING THE ORDER. SO, MAKE SURE THIS CODE IS TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION AT THE PLACEMENT OF ORDERS FOR THE ABOVE VED OR ANY OTHER PRODUCTS FROM THIS COMPANY. PRESIDENT MARK OSENGA OF THE FITZZ COMPANY REGRETS THIS PRICE INCREASE IS NECESSARY, BUT THE MANUFACTURER HAS RAISED THIER PRICE SO HE HAS TO INCREASE HIS ACCORDINGLY.

SORRY FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE THIS PLACES ON ANY FORUM MEMBER. THIS POST CARRIES MY USUAL DISCLAIMER THAT I DO NOT RECEIVE ANY COMPENSATION OR MONETARY CONSIDERATION FROM THE FITZZ COMPANY IN ANY REGARD. I ONLY WORK WITH THE COMPANY AS LIASION TO ASSIST MEMBERS WITH ORDERS AND ANY PROBLEMS THAT MAY ARISE.

Old Man

So you don't use the "team" code anymore for discount?  Instead enter "pforum" instead do you use both codes?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/using all cylinders
Post by: Old Man on December 16, 2009, 10:17:19 AM
skw:

You should look up my PM to you which is quite lengthy. I went into a good bit of detail with a procedure that should help your situation much better.

I really do not recommend the procedure you are now using which does not follow the prescribed cylinders for the prescribed weeks on the 26 week protocol. I am not saying that you will not get some results from what you are using, but you would realize more and probably faster if you adhered to the regular weekly schedule. It was developed over a period of time by the manufacturer and a lot of us old guys had input to their research center with our comments of what to do and what not to do.

Angus has stated that the best motto for VED therapy usage is this: "Less is much better than more" when it comes to the amount of vacuum pressure used. That statement should be the watchword for any and all using the VED therapy. Again, I would strongly recommend that you try your very best to tolerate the small amount of inconvenience you have with using the A cylinder and keep it into your routine of exercises. It only lasts for the initial weeks of the protocol anyway. I know from experience that it works best overall to follow the schedule to the letter.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on December 16, 2009, 10:21:36 AM
Note to Fred22 and All:

The discount code term TEAM will no longer be used when placing an order with the Fitzz company. The new discount coupon code word is PFORUM.

Be careful to remember this and apply it to any telephone or on line order placed with the company. The company apologizes for having to raise their prices, but they had no choice in the matter. Their supplier raised them in view the economy or something.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/using all cylinders
Post by: skunkworks on December 16, 2009, 08:24:11 PM
Quote from: Old Man on December 16, 2009, 10:17:19 AM
Angus has stated that the best motto for VED therapy usage is this: "Less is much better than more" when it comes to the amount of vacuum pressure used. That statement should be the watchword for any and all using the VED therapy. Again, I would strongly recommend that you try your very best to tolerate the small amount of inconvenience you have with using the A cylinder and keep it into your routine of exercises. It only lasts for the initial weeks of the protocol anyway. I know from experience that it works best overall to follow the schedule to the letter.

Hey Oldman,

Thanks for the PM, I have read it now and replied via PM regarding the A cylinder.

I am very cautious regarding pressure, probably more so than is needed.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Fred22 on December 17, 2009, 04:08:30 PM
Quote from: Old Man on December 16, 2009, 10:21:36 AM
Note to Fred22 and All:

The discount code term TEAM will no longer be used when placing an order with the Fitzz company. The new discount coupon code word is PFORUM.

Be careful to remember this and apply it to any telephone or on line order placed with the company. The company apologizes for having to raise their prices, but they had no choice in the matter. Their supplier raised them in view the economy or something.

Old Man

Thanks Old Man.  I just ordered the Vitality Plus 3 cylinder (SKU: AM1000P) from Fitzz. and got it for $254 total (free shipping,).  This is he right one isn't it?  I'm glad you gave us a heads up because I kept putting it off because of the holidays, etc.  I just hope it doesn't make this pain worse.  I realize I'll have to go slowly and I'm sure I'll need your advice when I start the therapy.  Thanks again!

Fred
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/placing an order
Post by: Old Man on December 17, 2009, 11:05:52 PM
Fred22:

No problem. That is what this forum is all about = helping others when they need it. Yes, from the price you stated, sounds like you ordered the right one. And yes, there is still free shipping from the company when ordering over a certain dollar amount.

Let me know when you get your VED and have questions to be answered.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Fred22 on December 29, 2009, 12:29:46 PM
OK, I got the Fitzz 3 cylinder and it seems to be assembled properly.  I'm getting ready to start the 26 week protocol.  Just a couple of questions.  The directions (in 26 week protocol) say "engorge the penis" and hold for 5-10 seconds.  This may vary from person to person, but approximately how many pumps should it take to engorge the penis in the A cylinder?  Also is just trimming the pubic hair around the penis sufficient or is it better to shave? Thanks.
Title: A tube pumps
Post by: cowboyfood on December 29, 2009, 02:21:44 PM
Fred22,

The number of pumps required to fully engorge the penis using the A tube, or any size tube, may vary depending on several factors.

I found the following routine to work best for me using the "A" tube in particular:
First, lubricate the tube and your penis.

Second, insert the penis into the "A" tube.

Third, begin your first cycle.  Start by pumping several times (but, be conservative, maybe 2-4 pumps, this varies).  Wait about 3 to 5 seconds, and then pump a few more times.  Continue the pump and wait until you feel the penis is about as engorged as it will get during this cycle.  I find that it takes me anywhere from 3 to 6 cycles to get fully engorged depending on many factors.  Generally, I do not "count" my first several cycles and consider these "warm-ups."

Fourth, (and most importantly when using the "A" tube IMO), release the pressure and let your penis relax while inside the "A" tube.  Do not remove your penis from the tube before beginning the next, or any subsequent cycle.
This particular method seems to work for me.  If I remove my penis from the VED in between cycles, my penis gets "stuck" about halfway to three-quarters of my maximum lengthwise stretch point.  But, if I don't remove my penis, I can get about a 25% to 50% longer stretch.  I don't know why this is the case.

Fifth, Begin the next cycle.

So, I have found that the number of cycles to get to a fully engorged state in the "A" tube varies.  Maybe it's the weather, or many other things.

In any event, if you are just starting, you may find it takes you a lot of practice (weeks to months) to fully "master" the "A" tube.  It took me a long time.  I'm in my second protocol and I'm getting excellent stretches using the "A" tube; whereas I did not get great stretches during my several attempts using the A tube during my first protocol.  In fact, I quit using the "A" tube for a while, but returned to its use after discussing my frustration with it with some veteran users.

Now, I almost always get great stretches with the A tube.  

Also, use of the "A" tube limits the size of the engorgment due to its narrower diameter. But, the "A" tube provides a nice lengthwise stretch.  The lengthwise stretch is the purpose of this tube.

Hope this helps.

CF

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Woodman on January 05, 2010, 12:33:15 AM
I ve had the VED since June of 08. Ive tryed using it consistently but have had to stop numerous times due to pain. Either the pain from the Peyronies or a combination of the two. I will use the VED for approx. a week or two then it will feel like I ve used too much pressure then I will get additional pain and have to stop for a couple weeks or so till it calms down then start over. This seems to be a continuous cycle for me.

I often have a problem with the VED wanting to pull in my scrotum & or testicle while pumping up. I ve tryed using both rubber inserts. Sometimes the big one will work better. Sometimes the smaller one will and sometimes neather will work. I cant seem to figure out what Iam doing wrong. I ve tryed diffrent positions like penis touching the bottom or top of the cylinder. I also tryed moving it a little to the left or right of the base of the penis.

I notice that having the problems with the rubber inserts seem to effect how the penis stretches in the cylinder. It seems since the skin isn't staying in the right position its stopping the penis from stretching fully.

Also I ve noticed even when I am getting the technique right for the most part it seems that different times the penis stretches to different sizes. Sometimes it will stretch out pretty good others it will barely stretch out. Has anyone experienced this with the VED?

Thanks everyone for your thoughts

Woodman

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 05, 2010, 05:31:54 PM
Woodman:

From your description of how things are working out for you with the VED that you definitely are having a problem. There are many posts back in the VED board on several topics that explain very much in detail how the VED is supposed to be assembled and used.

However, I will try to assist you with a few tips that have worked for me and other guys on the forum. It appears that you may not be using enough lube in the right places to help you get your shaft into the mouth of the cylinder(s). This is how I use the lube: Place both sizing inserts into the assembled cylinder(s) when using the small A cylinder and place lube inside of them and well on up into the cylinders as far as you can reach (some guys use a small brush to place the lube further out, etc.) You should use enough lube to provide a good slippery surface on the shaft as it is being drawn into the cylinders. Another thing is that you should use both the small and large sizing insert unless your shaft is just too large to fit into the small one. The small one prevents the penile skin from being drawn into the opening between the nested cylinders. Be extremely careful to keep the lube from getting on your scrotum so that it cannot be drawn into the cylinders while pumping. But, get enough lube on the head and shaft to allow easy slipping into the VED.

As you are ready to insert your shaft and head into the cylinders, use a small amount of vacuum to help pull the penis on into the mouth, etc. Jockey the whole VED around a bit while pumping to help position the cylinder better. Work slowly and let the blood flow build up so your penis can expand and get a good tight seal in the inserts/cylinder mouth. This is a case where less pressure it better than more. The time may vary between exercise cycles and or sessions to get a full erection going so that you can repeat the pumping cycles successfully.

Take your time when doing the sessions and I am sure that you will see better results if you do the above suggestions. I know that it seems like the procedure is difficult to get the hang of, but it will get better if you devote time and effort to learn the right steps. Feel free to ask any and all questions you may have and I will be glad to work with you in arriving at a solution.

Regards, Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on January 06, 2010, 02:41:43 AM
Quote from: Woodman on January 05, 2010, 12:33:15 AM
I often have a problem with the VED wanting to pull in my scrotum & or testicle while pumping up. I ve tryed using both rubber inserts. Sometimes the big one will work better. Sometimes the smaller one will and sometimes neather will work. I cant seem to figure out what Iam doing wrong. I ve tryed diffrent positions like penis touching the bottom or top of the cylinder. I also tryed moving it a little to the left or right of the base of the penis.

One thing that might help with that is making sure the very base of your penis and the sizing insert do not get any lube on them. Also having a partial erection can help.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 06, 2010, 06:39:34 PM
skunkworks:

I disagree with the statement in your post to Woodman about not getting lube on the base of ones penis or the sizing inserts. This can only lead to irritation of the skin and possibly the upper part of the scrotum. The shaft of ones penis must be able to slip easily into and out of the mouth of the cylinder(s) and if no lube is on the sizing insert, it just will not slip easily. I know, have been through many trial and error periods with VED usage and have experienced just about any and all problems. Lastly on this thought, the lube provides a better sealing action to allow for more vacuum pressure without pumping many cycles. The seal must be maintained at all times during the entire therapy session or else leakage of vacuum occurs and the pressure is lost. This has been a problem with many guys new to the VED therapy.

There are many posts in the VED board under the various topics that strongly suggest that no lube be gotten on the scrotum to prevent it being pulled into the cylinder during pumping exercises. And, there are many posts suggesting that plenty lube be used on the shaft and inside the cylinders to prevent any irritation while pumping cycles are being performed to preclude any possible injury to the skin, etc.

Anyway, hopefully, he can get his exercise cycles back on track and see some success with the VED therapy. VED therapy is not for those who are looking for an overnight "cure", it just doesn't happen that way.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on January 06, 2010, 08:22:14 PM
I just find that if any lube gets on the very base of the penis (where it meets the scrotum) and the bottom of the sizing insert (the rim), it is far more likely that the scrotum willl be pulled in. This is just my experience though. I should have said only with the larger inserts, as noone should be having issues with the scrotum being pulled in while using the smallest tube and insert.

It's a pretty safe bet that you should be listening to old man over me though :)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 06, 2010, 08:51:06 PM
skunkworks:

Yes, you are right there about the sizing inserts. Caution is the watchword in any VED exercise. One must be careful not to overpump the pressure or hold the pressure too long at a time. Edema can and will result when the pressure is too high or held too long. VED therapy is a case where less is better than more.

So, again use caution with VED therapy, whether or not you dealing with the pressure or the lubrication factor. Lubrication in the right places is the key to successful therapy sessions. However, one should not allow the scrotum tissue to be pulled into the cylinders and at all costs.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Jackieo on January 06, 2010, 09:13:23 PM
Hi, guys.
I feel I need to voice an "option" to the guys who, like me, are experiencing the occasional problem with their scrotum skin being sucked into the VED.
I found a "ball strap" at a local leather shop (no....that is not my "thing" and I was a bit nervous walking into the shop....).  The straps come in various widths and lengths as well as snap-fasten or Velcro.  I have not had any problems since I started wearing the strap.
Also, I found that there are many different qualities of water-based lube available.  At the upper end of the expense meter is one by brand name "Maximus".  I have not had any pain (or burn sensations) since using it.
Best of luck.
JackieO
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on January 06, 2010, 09:34:05 PM
Hey that is a really good idea!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Bart2 on January 07, 2010, 12:26:43 AM
Hey,

Are we supposed to use a water-based, water-soluble lubricant for the VED? Is something like the K-Y Jelly adequate?

Bart
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: jackp on January 07, 2010, 06:18:59 AM
Bart

KY is fine but if you want to save some money go to Walmart and get the store brand. I found it worked just a good as the name brands.

Jackp
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Fred22 on January 07, 2010, 10:46:14 AM
Quote from: Old Man on January 06, 2010, 08:51:06 PM
skunkworks:

Yes, you are right there about the sizing inserts. Caution is the watchword in any VED exercise. One must be careful not to overpump the pressure or hold the pressure too long at a time. Edema can and will result when the pressure is too high or held too long. VED therapy is a case where less is better than more.

So, again use caution with VED therapy, whether or not you dealing with the pressure or the lubrication factor. Lubrication in the right places is the key to successful therapy sessions. However, one should not allow the scrotum tissue to be pulled into the cylinders and at all costs.

Old Man

I've just started the VED...a couple of "trial runs".  How do you know if you're overpumping?  I pump 2 to four times, wait 3 to 5 seconds then pump again, but as soon as I feel any discomfort I stop.  I'm getting a pretty good stretch with the A cylinder, but not a real strong erection (not hard).  Should I be working toward achieving a really hard erection or just stretching the penis?  I don't want to be overly cautious and minimize possible benefits, but OTOH don't want to injure myself.  My problem is I've had pretty much constant discomfort or pain for going on four years so I'm starting out with a certain level of discomfort.  So what are the immediate signs of overpumping?

Fred
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: cowboyfood on January 07, 2010, 11:57:26 AM
Quote from: Fred22 on January 07, 2010, 10:46:14 AM

... How do you know if you're overpumping?  I pump 2 to four times, wait 3 to 5 seconds then pump again, but as soon as I feel any discomfort I stop.  I'm getting a pretty good stretch with the A cylinder, but not a real strong erection (not hard).  Should I be working toward achieving a really hard erection or just stretching the penis?  I don't want to be overly cautious and minimize possible benefits, but OTOH don't want to injure myself.  
Fred

Fred, I judge whether I am overpumping by measuring my penis while using the VED and most importantly whether I feel any discomfort.  (I marked the outside of the "C" cylinder with a marker indicating measurements...just a couple that shows me when my engorged penis is stretched to a length similar to my natural erect penis).

Recognize that since you are in the begining stages of VED use that you may feel discomfort after a session simply because your penis is not used to being stretched by a VED.  I believe this type of discomfort is normal and not a sign of overpumping, but a sign that you just began using a VED.

Initially, be overcautious and actually "underpump."  That way you get the benefit of establishing the habit of VED usage, get familiar with the VED, and do not cause any discomfort associated with overpumping.  The longer you use the VED the easier it will be for you to maximize the benefits received from VED usage.

However, you need to fight off the temptation to get maximum stretches while just beginning VED usage.  I'm in the middle of my second protocol and looking back I can see that it took me several months to get really accommodated with the VED.

So, take it easy and get in the habit of VED usage.  

Also, a semantic point, refer to an "engorged" penis as opposed to an "erect" penis when describing the shape of it during VED usage.  You're not trying to achieve an erection, but instead, trying to engorged the penis.

Always remember, this is a long-term treatment.  I look at it through the following perspective.  Imagine yourself a year and a half from now.  Which story to do want to be able to tell at that time, (a) I tried the VED for a few weeks but decided it was not worth the effort, or (b) I stuck to a daily routine of VED usage and eventually became very adapt at its usage and (potentially) I see (maybe significant) benefits because of its use?


IMO, it sounds to me like your cycle routine is fine.
CF
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Fred22 on January 07, 2010, 12:57:34 PM
CBF- Thanks. Sounds like good advice.  I just finished a session and feel a little tender, but, as you say, I think it's just that my penis is not used to getting stretched.  I was a little more aggressive today, but still pretty careful.  I've been taking 800 mg Advil 2X a day for the last couple of weeks and it seems to be helping some with the pain.  I actually had a couple of pain free days, one of which was Christmas day, for which I'm very grateful.  It was my one year old grandson's first Christmas and I had a wonderful family day.  The discomfort has retruned to some degree and I was rather reluctant to begin the VED therapy, but I don't think it's really making it any worse.  Could even be helping some...we'll see.  One interesting thing, which may be purely coincidental, but since I started taking the Advil I haven't had any nightime or AM erections.  This AM I even had a very erotic dream and when I awakened..no erection.  Perhaps I've (in the words of the inimitable Willie Nelson), outlived my dick....Hope not!  Thanks for your support and happy new year!

Fred

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: cowboyfood on January 07, 2010, 02:11:41 PM
Quote from: Fred22 on January 07, 2010, 12:57:34 PM
... One interesting thing, which may be purely coincidental, but since I started taking the Advil I haven't had any nightime or AM erections.  This AM I even had a very erotic dream and when I awakened..no erection.  P

Fred

Hey, others may need to back me up on this, but, although an erotic dream may cause a "nighttime" erection, these are not the "nighttime" erections the forum generally refers to, but instead, the forum refers to the body's natural system of producing an erection regardless of any visual/mental stimulation.

One thing I've noticed is that compared to this time last year, I get almost daily "nighttime" erections now, whereas before I do not think I had nearly as frequent ones.  I believe the VED, every other nightly dose of Viagra (25mg), and Pentox use over the last year has had a profound affect on my ability to have almost daily nighttime erections.

I usually get them between 6 and 7 am, or maybe an hour or so earlier.  However, if I'm up late, say past 2am (I'm in law school) and get up early, say 7am, I may not have one.

CF
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Bart2 on January 07, 2010, 05:57:59 PM
Quote from: cowboyfood on January 07, 2010, 02:11:41 PM
...and Pentox use over the last year has had a profound affect on my ability to have almost daily nighttime erections.

CBF,

Have you been on pentox for more than 6 months? More than a year? Did your uro prescribe the 6 months repeats more than once then?

Bart
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Woodman on January 08, 2010, 12:45:53 AM
Thank You Old Man. I tried what you advised me and it seems to be working alot better. I am using more lube in the cylinder and on the penis being careful not to get any too close to the base or scrotum.

Should I be concerned with my erection length in VED vs my natural erection. My natural erection is considerably longer then my erection with the VED. My thinking is it will take time to get my tissue use to stretching again since I havent used the VED in a while. Is the difference in the erection sizes normal.

Thanks Again

Woodman
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: cowboyfood on January 08, 2010, 01:51:40 AM
Quote from: bart15 on January 07, 2010, 05:57:59 PM
Quote from: cowboyfood on January 07, 2010, 02:11:41 PM
...and Pentox use over the last year has had a profound affect on my ability to have almost daily nighttime erections.

CBF,

Have you been on pentox for more than 6 months?

I started using Pentox last May with a 6 month Rx.  The uro just refilled it, so I've been taking 3x 400mg pills daily for about 7 months.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 08, 2010, 08:47:09 AM
Woodman:

I don't really think you should be too concerned about the size of your penis while using the small A cylinder. Since it is rather small and is designed to hold the shaft in a confined space to help it get pulled in length rather expand in diameter. This phase of the protocol is really meant to do that. As you progress to the B and C cylinders you will see a drastic difference in the size and shape that the shaft will take on.

Once you reach the C cylinder schedule of the protocol, you will by time have gotten your penis "used" to the added expansion and it will expand to its fullest. A natural erection depends solely on the pressure of your heart to develop so it will not necessarily be larger or harder than the VED developed erection. The VED can and will give one the best erection they ever had, but remember that too much pressure is not the way to go. If you intend to use the VED for erections, be extremely careful to let your penis develop to what you desire in an erection. The penis will expand a small amount after you place the retainer ring on the shaft so practice using the retainer rings prior to actually having sexual intercourse. IOW, practice makes perfect and that is what you need to do with the VED.

You are right, it takes time for your penis erectile tissue to develop to its original size and shape before Peyronies Disease struck, so use your best judgment when doing the VED exercises.

Let me know if you have any further questions. And, Happy Pumping!!!

Old Man
Title: Re: Pain, Discomfort
Post by: Fred22 on January 18, 2010, 03:46:15 PM
Last Wednesday was day 3 of the 26 week protocol for me (although I had done a few "warmup" sessions for a few days before).  Monday and Tuesday went pretty well, with only minor discomfort.  However, after Wednesday's session I was sore for the rest of the day.  Not severe pain, but moderate pain/discomfort.  I've been very careful about not overpumping or holding too long.  After Wednesday, I skipped the next 4 days and resumed today with an even less aggressive approach, pumping less and holding for no more than around 5 seconds.  I had only minor discomfort before today's session but it increased and now 4 hours later I'm still hurting a bit (not unbearable pain, but more than before the session).  I'm really determined to give this therapy a fair trial, especially after paying over $250 for the unit.  I'm a music teacher and I tell my students that the important thing regarding practice is to do it daily.  IOW, It's better to do 15 minutes every day than to skip a few days and then practice for 30 minutes or an hour.  I'm wondering if the same is not true of VED therapy, ie. a little bit each day is best, even if you're only able to do 2 or 3 pumps and hold for a few seconds and maybe do 5 cycles building up gradually.  I'm wondering if the experienced users (Old Man) agree with this approach, or have any words of advice for me.  As I've said many times before, pain is one of my major issues with this condiditon and from what I read on the forum, I'm in the minority, with many having only minor discomfort with erections and others never experiencing pain.  I'm faced with the rather daunting task of trying to work out a daily routine that will yield significant benefits and yet not exacerbate the pain.

Fred   
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hightemp on January 18, 2010, 04:33:53 PM
As it so happens, I am at about the same place in my protocol as you. I too "practiced" for about three weeks before deciding to start the full protocol. I have experienced many of the same things you describe, but I may characterize the "pain" differently. I guess it depends upon each individuals pain threshold.

I have decided on a 2-3 second pump, enough to feel a gentle pull ( I have the battery operated model ), then hold it for 15 to 20 seconds, I then release the vacuum and wait approximately 2 minutes before repeating.

I tend to characterize my sensation more as a feeling of slight discomfort akin to a very dull ache, not unlike what one may feel in a muscle ( no pun intended ) after a moderate work out. Not pain in the sense that you know that you hurt yourself, but enough of a sensation that you know it's there. I have seen no evidence of trauma. No bruising, no discoloration other than the observation that there is more blood in the tissue that was subjected to vacuum pressure than the tissue that was outside of the VED, and no tenderness to the touch after VED use. I am assuming that these feelings are normal since ones penis is not normally subjected to a vacuum environment. As many have said, "listen to your body, it should tell you if what you are doing is ok or not."

I am by no means an expert, or could I even be classified as "experienced". I'll leave that to Old Man and others who have been dealing with this condition much longer than I, but I am not going to give up on this approach. I just wanted you to know that you are not alone in what you are experiencing.

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 18, 2010, 05:09:45 PM
Hightemp and Fred22:

OK, since both of you experience similar conditions when using the VED therapy, will answer you both in one post. Yes, you should keep up a daily schedule of therapy exercises. You are on the right track about using less pressure for lessor periods of holding time. What you need to do is get your penises "used to" the added blood flow.

Probably both of you have not had real good firm erections for quite some period of time, the erectile tissue has not been expanded as much as the VED does. So, err on the side of caution and not over pump.

Hightemp: My experience in VED therapy has shown that the battery powered models do have a tendency to overpump the pressure, so be careful to shut it off before you reach your comfort level. Holding the pressure will continue to draw in blood until the pressure equalizes. Again, err on the side of caution.

Now, bottom line to both of you, keep up the schedule, just adjust the time and pressure to suit your individual desires/needs.
VED therapy is a case where less is much better than more.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: despise on January 18, 2010, 07:50:43 PM
I got my vitality 3 cylinder ved but don't know how to use it! gah can anyone help me out?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: despise on January 18, 2010, 08:01:22 PM
I don't understand how you get the medium and small cylinder hooked up to the manual pump. The large cylinder is perfect size and just hooks right on where the other ones are to small.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: despise on January 18, 2010, 08:15:37 PM
and when i try to use it with the big cylinder it just pulls up skin and blood around my penis.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on January 18, 2010, 08:51:39 PM
despise:

Read my PM to you. Slow down, you are getting too anxious and impatient! Now that you caused damage to your shaft, you must, repeat MUST NOT pump again until the damage heals.

I gave you all the necessary instructions to assemble and use the VED in my PM to you just a few minutes ago. So read them, wait until your penis heals and then start over on a more milder basis. Again, don't get too anxious with procedure. VED therapy is not an overnight therapy. You must work slow with caution and patience.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on January 18, 2010, 10:58:31 PM
Quote from: despise on January 18, 2010, 08:01:22 PM
I don't understand how you get the medium and small cylinder hooked up to the manual pump. The large cylinder is perfect size and just hooks right on where the other ones are to small.

The smaller cylinders go inside the large cylinder. You really need to read this thread, the 3 cylinder treatment protocol, and the instructions that come with the VED.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: despise on January 23, 2010, 09:26:52 AM
Anyone ever get stretch marks on the head from the ved? I'm assuming I am enlarging my penis to much, but there doesn't seem to matter if I enlarge a little bit or a lot, because the head always enlarges fully.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: despise on January 24, 2010, 06:40:01 AM
eh nvm about my last post, i waited a day to let it heal and the stretch marks have faded. I woke up with my first strong erection since Ive gotten peyronies and I can positively say its thank to the ved =]
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hightemp on January 26, 2010, 01:37:11 PM
I have a question for those who may have had similar experiences whist using the VED.

My Uro has confirmed that I have Peyronies. He could not find any evidence of plaque during my recent examination, but my curvature is definitely apparent. We discussed possible courses of action and he agreed that the VED protocol might be helpful. He also prescribed 5mg Cialis daily, saying that while I did not need it to achieve an erection, it would help increase blood flow through out my penis.

So, I have been on the Cialis for 12 days, and I am also 12 days into the VED protocol. While I still can't achieve what I would call a typical erection using the VED, I have always, and continue to be able to achieve erections when sexually excited. However, after 12 days of therapy, my curvature appears to be worse, or at least more exaggerated. I have no pain and I am certain that I have not injured myself in any way, but damned if the upward bend, as well as the bend to the left don't look more pronounced.

Has anyone else experienced similar results? The Cialis seems to be working. My erections are far more frequent, and seem to be larger. Could this be what I am experiencing? Cialis + VED = More blood & Larger erections= more pronounced curves?
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tim468 on January 26, 2010, 06:44:55 PM
"More blood & Larger erections= more pronounced curves"

I think that might be it - if the stretchy part stretches more and the scarred part does not... more bend or dent would be apparent.

Tim
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Iceman on January 26, 2010, 11:14:28 PM
hightemp - have you tried pentox.... and welcome to our brotherhood - the next 2 years will be exciting for you
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Hightemp on January 27, 2010, 07:49:50 AM
Iceman,
I brought it up with my uro, but he was not familiar with its use for Peyronies. He is currently looking into it. He is pretty open to new treatment techniques, so I somewhat confident that he will issue a prescription fairly soon.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: alfapd on January 28, 2010, 10:52:54 AM
When purchased a Vitality Plus unit from Fitzz they did not have the 3 cylinder option, so I bought some 1.5 and 1.7 inch ID acrylic tubing and made my own inserts.  I have some tubing left and will share with the group.  Send me a PM to inquire.
Title: alfapd......
Post by: Angus on January 29, 2010, 10:30:01 AM
   Thanks for offering to share left over tubing; that is great. This is a good reminder on the forum that making your own VED tubes is a viable option. Many, including myself, have made VED tubes with great success. Help can be obtained from those of us here who have made these in the past.
Title: New To Peyronies
Post by: jackp on February 12, 2010, 01:06:45 PM
The question has been asked many times when should I start therapy for peyronies.

Vanderbilt is a world class center for men with all kinds of sexual function problems. One of our members that wishes to remain anonymous sent me this in an email:

I am still going strong on the VED, I am at day 84 of the 26 week protocol (with your input).  I seem to be noticing some length gains this week when I use the A cyclinder (which is encouraging).  I should have kept with the VED exercises when I started last May instead of listening to Dr. Levine (but all of this is a learning process from a variety of experts).  By the way, Todd D. informed me when we met that he thought VED exercise is most useful during the first 3 months of the onset of peyrones; however, he acknowledged that guys usually do not know what to do to combat the disease (or put themselves in a better medical postion) until well after the 3 month time period).

Guys if you are new to peyronies or have had it a while the recommendation is start VED therapy as soon as possible.  Go to the 26 week protocol and follow it, it works. I did not start the therapy until I had my peyronies for about 13 years. I can tell you it works.

Any questions on using the VED Old Man or myself will be glad to assist.

Jackp

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: despise on February 16, 2010, 07:52:53 PM
I am having a lot penile skin pain and I am thinking it is due to the VED. I am putting plenty of lube on for the VED, but the lube seems to dry up and become sticky. It's so tender and raw that I'm actually not wanting to continue with treatment for 3 days before I see my fiance. Do you think I could possibly be over pumping and its stretching the skin to far? Or should I get a new type of lube? a answer before treatment tonight would be awesome guys! Thanks for all the help.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 16, 2010, 08:49:27 PM
despise:

Make absolutely certain that you are using a very good grade of lubrication. KY gel is the best overall, but costly. A lot of us are using the Wal Mart Equate brand of personal lubrication. The Equate brand sells for around $2.00 per tube. Both KY and the Equate lubes are water soluble. If yours is drying up quickly, you might want to get another brand.

The lube that comes with the Vitality Plus VED is almost like KY so it should be a good one. You can simply moisten the shaft after pumping a few cycles to see if that makes the lube more slippery or softens it.

You must be very careful not to overpump the pressure. Again, less is better than more with vacuum pressure using the VED. So be extra careful to pump less instead of more.

Keep us up to date on what is happening for you and if you have more questions, please ask.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's -Availability of Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 19, 2010, 08:16:32 PM
NOTE TO ALL MEMBERS:

I have received an email today from the Fitzz Company that they can no longer supply on line orders for  the Vitaility Plus OTC Vacuum Erection Device at the price they have been charging for members on the Peyronies Disease Forum. Shown below is the email that I received today. Please take notice of its contents and abide by its request. Orders at the same price can be placed by phone as stated until the Fitzz company updates it web site in accordance with the Augusta Medical Systems' requirements.  Old Man

Dear Mr. (Name deleted for personal privacy purposes)


We have been notified by Augusta Medical this afternoon that we are no longer able to offer the Multi-cylinder system for sale - online...


They are carrying the system for over $600 on their site and wish to maintain exclusivity.


That being said, they have allowed us to maintain the system for our current pricing for your organization and members but the orders must be phoned in for now.  We will probably be able to put a special link up for your members after 30 days but for now the orders must be phoned in.  So if you can update your forum for the members to call our Toll Free Number 866-813-3621 to place the order we would appreciate it.  


We are apparently the only organization offer the ability to resell this system (and we can offer it at a reduced price).


Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.


Thank you and have a great weekend.


Mark Osenga, President
THE FITZZ GROUP, INC.
3250 NE 1st Ave Suite 320
Miami, FL  33137

Direct Line:  305.433.3188   Fax:  786.879.8641

Email:  mark.osenga@fitzz.com
Website:  www.fitzz.com











=
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bummedout on February 19, 2010, 10:04:48 PM
Old Man, are you working for Fitzz? ...........kidding ;)
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 19, 2010, 11:19:16 PM
bummedout:

I won't even address that comment!! If by now everyone does not know that I work for no company, just for the interest of the many sufferers on this forum I offer no apology. Thanks for your support anyway.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Tigman on February 20, 2010, 06:49:42 AM
I've been reading the forum for a while and finally bought the three cylinder system recently. I started practicing with it and ran into the same problem that despise is talking about. I tried a product called Allation which is a slightly cheaper version of Astroglide and sold at Walgreens. That made a big difference for me but it's pretty expensive ($10 for 5oz). It's not a monumental amount of money since I don't use very much each time, so I'm happy with it. By the way, let me thank all of you (Old Man, Angus, etc), for all your input here!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 20, 2010, 07:40:26 AM
Tigman:

Sorry to learn that you have joined the ranks of the Peyronies Disease family! Yes, it does take a bit of practice to get the hang of using a VED properly and to get a good seal when using it.

You might want to try the Wal Mart Equate Personal Lubricant brand they sell. It costs just a bit over $2.00 per tube and works equally well as the KY or the brand that came with the VED. So give it a try before spending as much as you say in your post.

Let me know if I can help with your VED protocol in any way.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bummedout on February 20, 2010, 06:06:50 PM
Old Man, just so you know, I was sincerely kidding.......as an update though, I've been rarely using my VED.......it does seem to stretch me out a bit when I do use it, but only short term......I just haven't used it as consistently as I should to truly make my judgement of it.  I am going back to another doctor for a third opinion though in a couple of weeks, doctor Mulhall.  I think I'm going to try to get a prescription for Cialis or something.  I'm just sort of waiting in Limbo right now, hoping that maybe the Xiaflex thing will happen.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: despise on February 20, 2010, 06:32:15 PM
Quote from: bummedout on February 20, 2010, 06:06:50 PM
Old Man, just so you know, I was sincerely kidding.......as an update though, I've been rarely using my VED.......it does seem to stretch me out a bit when I do use it, but only short term......I just haven't used it as consistently as I should to truly make my judgement of it.  I am going back to another doctor for a third opinion though in a couple of weeks, doctor Mulhall.  I think I'm going to try to get a prescription for Cialis or something.  I'm just sort of waiting in Limbo right now, hoping that maybe the Xiaflex thing will happen.

Bummedout I don't understand why you aren't using the VED consistently. I haven't been using the VED more than a month, but I can tell you It makes a huge difference in repairing the plaque. Do you know where you plaque is? I am guessing you are in the early stages of peyronies, so you don't see much improvement with the VED, but that would only be because the plaque hasn't yet calcified completely, which is a good thing! That means you need to get as much blood flow in there to help heal it now. I'm not as knowledgable about peyronies as other members in here, but I believe what I am saying is correct. If it is not someone please rephrase me or correct me. VED seems to be the only real treatment with positive benefit other than hot baths, but I think that has actually hardened my plaque even more. So I am relying fully on the VED and a couple of oral medications such as L-arginine and Vitamin E full spec, at this time. I sure wish I would have gotten the VED in the early stages of my peyronies.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/availability of Vitality Plus VEDs
Post by: Old Man on February 20, 2010, 08:53:59 PM
NOTE TO ALL MEMBERS:

UPDATE TO POST 2479 BELOW......

Received the following email today from the Fitzz Company. It should be self explanatory, but if anyone has a question about the link that Mark has provided for our use, please call him at the number listed therein. Will keep everyone updated should there be any changes to this procedure. Please note that now, when ordering the VED listed in this link, you must add the additional cylinders to the basic package to make it a three cylinder VED unit.

You must copy and past the link to your web browser to have access to this special package VED unit and to get the pricing structure that Mark has allowed for members on the forum.

Old Man


Dear Mr. (Name deleted for personal privacy purposes.)


My team has devised a way to satisfy Augusta and still maintain the purchase ease for your members.


You can still use the link to the product previously available.  This just won't be easily found on our store without the link.


The specific product link is: http://www.fitzz.com/Vacuum-Therapy-System-Recommended-for-Peyronies-Therapy_p_1983.html


I'm sorry to make this so complicated but we are just trying to help the guys out and keep the manufacturer happy.


Again, feel free to give  me a call next week if you have any questions.


Thank you.




Mark Osenga, President
THE FITZZ GROUP, INC.
3250 NE 1st Ave Suite 320
Miami, FL  33137

Direct Line:  305.433.3188   Fax:  786.879.8641

Email:  mark.osenga@fitzz.com
Website:  www.fitzz.com













Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: bummedout on February 20, 2010, 09:06:09 PM
Despise:

I've had Peyronies Disease for a little over 2 years now.  I had at one point used the VED everyday for about 3 months, but I just didn't notice any real sustained improvement, except directly after use.  I might try again consistently, but for now I'm just gonna' wait until I see this next doctor, and choose a course of action then.  Good luck.

bummed
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 20, 2010, 10:36:17 PM
bummedout:

Yes, I realize that you were kidding and that is the reason that I said there would be no comment from me. You see, I have been blasted OH so many times about being a spammer, a shill for the company that makes VEDs and other names associated with that subject.

On the old forum, there was another guy using the name Old Man and we never knew who was talking or who was posting at any time. That is one reason that I came over to this one and you know the rest of the story.

BTW, I have just updated the Fitzz web site program where the earlier email from the company said they could no longer honor on line orders. Today, I updated post 2479 to show that there is now a way to order on line, but one must use the link shown in the latest post just below this one.

Now about the VED usage - you said that you were not using it on a regular basis. This is really a mistake on your part since regular use of the VED provides the ultimate in results. Occasionally using a VED just simply cannot keep up the blood flow that does the most good. So, I strongly urge and recommend to you that you should get back on the routine and stay with the protocol.

Let me know if I can help at any time with any questions about VED usage.

Regards, Old Man
Title: VED committment
Post by: Angus on February 21, 2010, 11:27:08 PM

    The VED protocol is a 26 week outline of a succession of varied cycles with different sized tubes. This does not mean that in 26 weeks you are done. This is physical therapy that is correcting a difficult thing to correct and must be done consistently for a long time for it to work. This therapy took me well over a year to produce results. At six months (26 weeks) I had small changes but not enough. After a year or a little more of use I saw a reduction from 45 degrees of curve to less than 10 degrees. I use the VED's as a supplemental therapy to this day. This is no different from physical therapy for shoulder surgery, knee surgery, strained muscles, ligaments or any other type of injury in that the therapy must be done every day to work. You can skip a day every now and then, but not much. To me, 20 or 30 minutes a day for a little over a year was a small price to pay for getting rid of most of that curve. Think of it as 12 or more hours a month given up to do VED therapy. Give up 12 hours of television a month for a year or so; television these days isn't that good anyway.
    If you just dabble at VED therapy and do it for a few months every few days, it's not going to work. Only the motivated VED user is going to get results. I would think that getting rid of a curve would be motivation enough to get a man to commit to VED therapy. Consider the cost of the VED's and the small cost of lubricant as an investment, not an inconvenience. But the user must commit and do the WORK. This is not a magic bullet pill or wonder of science that straightens a man out; it is old fashioned work and committment.
Title: Re: VED committment
Post by: Fred22 on February 23, 2010, 11:14:00 AM
Quote from: Angus on February 21, 2010, 11:27:08 PM

    The VED protocol is a 26 week outline of a succession of varied cycles with different sized tubes. This does not mean that in 26 weeks you are done. This is physical therapy that is correcting a difficult thing to correct and must be done consistently for a long time for it to work. This therapy took me well over a year to produce results. At six months (26 weeks) I had small changes but not enough. After a year or a little more of use I saw a reduction from 45 degrees of curve to less than 10 degrees. I use the VED's as a supplemental therapy to this day. This is no different from physical therapy for shoulder surgery, knee surgery, strained muscles, ligaments or any other type of injury in that the therapy must be done every day to work. You can skip a day every now and then, but not much. To me, 20 or 30 minutes a day for a little over a year was a small price to pay for getting rid of most of that curve. Think of it as 12 or more hours a month given up to do VED therapy. Give up 12 hours of television a month for a year or so; television these days isn't that good anyway.
    If you just dabble at VED therapy and do it for a few months every few days, it's not going to work. Only the motivated VED user is going to get results. I would think that getting rid of a curve would be motivation enough to get a man to commit to VED therapy. Consider the cost of the VED's and the small cost of lubricant as an investment, not an inconvenience. But the user must commit and do the WORK. This is not a magic bullet pill or wonder of science that straightens a man out; it is old fashioned work and committment.

Angus,

You may have done so already, but if it's not too much trouble could you share with us your daily routine RE VED therapy?  You said 20 to 30 minutes daily.  Could you just describe your typical daily VED session from start to finish?  Thanks.

Fred
Title: Fred22- ved routine
Post by: Angus on February 23, 2010, 01:15:19 PM
No problem, Fred. Keep in mind that I started VED therapy before the 26 week protocol came about. Also I made my own VED's to save money. The tubes are used are the same size as those used in the 3 tube protocol. The thing I did a little different from the protocol was to use all three tubes per session instead of using only one tube for a week. I would start with the small 1.5 inch tube as a warmup and get a good stretch and go maybe 5 or 6 cycles (pump, hold, release). I would move to the medium tube and do 5 or 6 cycles, then move to the large tube and do 5 or 6 cycles. I would hold each cycle for all tubes about 15 or 20 seconds but no longer, then release. Wait 10 or 15 seconds then do another cycle. I would rotate tubes until 20 or 30 minutes had gone by. I didn't approach this as rocket science and would sometimes skip a tube one day and just do the small tube or the medium tube, but usually cycled through all 3 tubes. I rarely missed a day but when I did I tried to pick up after a vacation or something. Whether a man follows the protocol to the letter or mixes up the tube sizes like I did I believe is not quite as important as committment to an extended length of time for this type of rehab to work, and not skipping days or weeks or months.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Fred22 on February 23, 2010, 10:53:01 PM
Angus,

Thanks for sharing this information.  I've just recently started VED therapy and have had to stop each time after 2 or 3 days due to pain.  I don't think it's due to overpumping though.  I had pain for a year before I had any curvature and after almost 4 years still have some pain on an almost daily basis.  So...I'm trying to gather as much information as possible regarding how others are approaching this therapy.  I do want to resume very soon and this time I'd like to be able to stick with it.  Thanks again.

Fred
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices/availability of Vitality Plus VEDs
Post by: wayne999 on February 27, 2010, 02:02:22 AM
Old Man: Is this the same device as before? I just seem to remember the graphic being different, and vaguely recall the "vitality OTC" as being a different product to the product you kept referring to (the one that came with 3 cylinders etc - ).....although i could be wrong.

Also what was the coupon code, has it been updated ?   I am debating about whether to get this or try and purchase a home-made type device.

Quote from: Old Man on February 20, 2010, 08:53:59 PM
NOTE TO ALL MEMBERS:

UPDATE TO POST 2479 BELOW......

Received the following email today from the Fitzz Company. It should be self explanatory, but anyone has a question about the link that Mark has provided for our use, please call him at the number listed therein. Will keep everyone updated should there be any changes to this procedure. Please note that now, when ordering the VED listed in this link, you must add the additional cylinders to the basic package to make it a three cylinder VED unit.

You must copy and past the link to your web browser to have access to this special package VED unit and to get the pricing structure that Mark has allowed for members on the forum.

Old Man


Dear Mr. (Name deleted for personal privacy purposes.)


My team has devised a way to satisfy Augusta and still maintain the purchase ease for your members.


You can still use the link to the product previously available.  This just won't be easily found on our store without the link.


The specific product link is: http://www.fitzz.com/Vacuum-Therapy-System-Recommended-for-Peyronies-Therapy_p_1983.html


I'm sorry to make this so complicated but we are just trying to help the guys out and keep the manufacturer happy.


Again, feel free to give  me a call next week if you have any questions.


Thank you.




Mark Osenga, President
THE FITZZ GROUP, INC.
3250 NE 1st Ave Suite 320
Miami, FL  33137

Direct Line:  305.433.3188   Fax:  786.879.8641

Email:  mark.osenga@fitzz.com
Website:  www.fitzz.com














Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on February 27, 2010, 09:39:31 AM
Wayne:

Yes, the basic part of this "new" product is the same as the original Vitality Plus OTC three cylinder VED. Augusta Medical now sells an assembled VED like the one that Fitzz was making up for sale. The Fitzz made up VED package consisted of the basic Vitality one cylinder unit and then they added two more cylinders to make up the Plus package. Augusta asked them to cease selling this unit as Augusta was now selling a similar unit, but at a much higher price.

Fitzz and Augusta worked out a deal where Fitz could still sell the Vitality one cylinder VED and then make extra cylinders available for the forum members. The link to the exact web site of the new VED three cylinder package is listed in the VED board topics and is shown in your quoted message in your post immediately below this post. The general public does not have access to this VED as it is reserved for forum members per their president.

So, to get the three cylinder package VED as they furnished before, simply go to that link, select the basic unit and then add the cylinders you would like by clicking on each one individually. This will give one the same package as the original three cylinder VED under the name of the Vitality Plus OTC three cylinder. There is no promo code as far as I know to get any additional discounted price.

If you have any further questions, feel free to ask.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: shrout on May 17, 2010, 02:31:01 PM
Just to add to the evidence of improvement in newguy's thread...https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,1211.0.html (https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,1211.0.html).. here are the results of my own one man study..

I've just completed the 26-week protocol for the third time, but this time I took accurate before and after measurements.. (as accurate as it's possible to be with a piece of string and a ruler :))

so here they are....

Flaccid length (stretched manually) - before 5 1/4 inch ... after 5 1/4 inch

Flaccid girth - before 4 7/8 inch ... after 5 1/4 inch

Erect length (stretched inside VED "B" tube) - before 5 3/4 inch ... after 6 1/8 inch.

so some measurable improvement in girth and erect length.  ::)


I found it impossible to accurately measure the angle of the bend, partly because the angle of deviation varies with the strength of the erection. So I can't provide any numbers for this. But I can confidently state that there has been an improvement. Judging subjectively, purely by eye, my estimate would be a reduction in deviation of approximately 10%.  

I am very encouraged by the results, and I hope it encourages others to take up the VED, and to persevere. I'm now simply going to start again on another  26 week cycle, pretty confident that I can achieve further improvement.

Best of luck to all.



 
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: wayne999 on May 29, 2010, 07:36:50 AM
Old man and others,

with the link i provided above, does that device allow for different size diameter cylinders to be used?   I know you can get the 3 cylinders that are 1.5",  1.75" and 2.25"   but if i say wanted a 2"  would that be easy to fit to the device?     And also is it easy to find medical grade quality cylinders on the net of varying sizes?  If not, and i had to do some home DIY tpye thing, does the device easily allow differnt size diameters to be fitted?

Thanks
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on May 29, 2010, 08:43:01 AM
Wayne:

I am not positive about this, but I am told that Augusta Medical does make larger cylinders for their VEDs. Suggest that you either contact the Fitzz company or the Augusta Medical Systems in Augusta, GA. Seems like that someone in the past needed one, but I have no knowledge of the resulting action about it.

The best contact at the Fitzz company is Mark Osenga, the president of the company. He would be very happy to work with you on getting the larger cylinders. He would know if they are available too. I no longer have a personal contact at Augusta Medical, you would just have to call their 800 number and ask for a sales representative.

Sorry that I have no further information. This point has arisen one time before, and I do not know the outcome of it.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: BrooksBro on May 31, 2010, 09:18:10 AM
It appears to me that the limitation of all the higher quality medical-grade and OTC systems is the pump to cylinder attachment method.  Interlocking tabs and slots, with an o-ring seal seems common and ideal.  Any tube custom machined still has to mate to the pump.

From professional experience, machining the inside diameter of commercial size thick wall polycarbonate tubes and then polishing the machined surface clear again, is VERY expensive, even among those who work with that material all the time.  Figure $200-300 per tube.  It 'can' be done, but not as cheap as $75-100 for those available from the manufacturer's, knowing they have 20-50% markup in their price.

It may be worth looking at pumps and cylinders here, which do not fit the "medical grade" pumps:  www.stockroom.com/pumps.htm

Or, this message:  https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,25.msg2539.html#msg2539




www.augustams.com

Vacuum Chamber Standard - 2-1/4 x 8
Vacuum Chamber Large - 2-1/2 x 8
Vacuum Chamber Extra Large - 2-1/2 x 12

SOMAErectStf Negative Pressure Cylinder A - 1-1/2 x 7
SOMAErectStf Negative Pressure Cylinder B - 1-3/4 x 7
SOMAErectStf Negative Pressure Cylinder C - 2-1/4 x 8

SomaCorrect® Negative Pressure Insert (A) - 1-1/2 x 7
SomaCorrect® Negative Pressure Insert (B) - 1-3/4 x 7
SomaCorrect® Negative Pressure Insert (C) - 2-1/4 x 8


www.fitz.com

Vitality OTC Systems
Standard tube
XL Tube - 2-1/2 x 8
XXL Tube - 2-1/2 x 13
Title: Re: Wayne
Post by: ComeBacKid on May 31, 2010, 12:18:24 PM
Wayne,

Are you finding that A cylinder is to tight, and C is to wide?  A is actualy supposed to be tight, I found B cylinder to be the best fit for me. 
Title: Re: Wayne
Post by: wayne999 on June 02, 2010, 07:16:50 AM
Quote from: ComeBacKid on May 31, 2010, 12:18:24 PM
Wayne,

Are you finding that A cylinder is to tight, and C is to wide?  A is actualy supposed to be tight, I found B cylinder to be the best fit for me. 


Thanks for replies guys. I haven't got any VED yet so i was just wondering if the cylinders that come with the Fitzz thing aren't as "optimal" as i might need, then would there be an easy solution.  I agree with what BrooksBro is saying in that the key is to get the cylinder to be a good fit to the pump device. I tried emailing Mark at Fitz about how well their device could accomodate varying sized diameter cylinders but got no reply. I am slightly hesitant of going down the DIY path because i am a bit clumsy and would not want to put my member in any kind of danger :)

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on June 02, 2010, 09:41:29 AM
Wayne:

Pulll up the Fitzz web site, get their 800 number and call Mark directly. If he is not available, there will be someone that can help you with any information you need to know.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: joe on June 10, 2010, 10:41:08 PM
Hi all, I just wanted to drop in to tell everyone that after lurking around and reading the VED posts for over a year I finally bit the bullet and bought the 3 cylinder VED from Fittz.  I received it in the mail quickly and it seems to be well made.  I am only in the second week of the 26 week protocol but I am already pleased with the results thus far. 

For the record, I have a ~45 degree bend upward starting about 2.5 inches from the base.  There was also a significant hourglass shape at the bend.  I have also been taking Pentox twice a day for about 3 months.  The VED has already helped the hour-glassing such that it is almost no longer noticeable.  The upward bend though only seems marginally better, but I am optimistic since I just started.  I will keep track and provide updates on any progress I see.    ;)

-Joe 
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: hb on June 10, 2010, 10:50:44 PM
I had the same thing happen with the 3 Tube VED. The hourglass shape is completely gone but I still curve. Although not as much, just more weeks use to go.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: mike67 on June 30, 2010, 11:10:46 PM
Is anyone presently using a Sex Shop VED? My Urologist, after being diagnosed last week , sent me to "Arent We Naughty "( that is the correct store name) and I selected a Precision Pump from California Exotic Novelties 
Joined just last week and shared this info with the Old Man. He is supportive but mentioned it will take longer to achieve results. We since exchanged messages when I thought I would look seriously at Fitzz.
But - in the meantime - does anyone have any comments on their experiences and results, if any, with a single chamber "sex shop" pump?
I am on my 8 th night using the Jackp / Old Man protocol.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 01, 2010, 03:14:36 PM
Pete28:

Sorry I cannot answer your PM of this date. I tried, but your inbox is full and cannot receive any more PMs. So, check your inbox and delete some some that PMs will be received.

Just open the box, select the oldest you no longer want and delete them. Check to see how many you are allowed before getting full on an ongoing basis, so this won't happen for you.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: despise on July 05, 2010, 12:51:04 AM
Hi guys I have some bad news. My VED is broken. So I sent my warranty to the company but not my broken VED yet. Will I get a brand new VED back for free? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Despise
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: newguy on July 05, 2010, 02:14:58 AM
despise - What did it state on the warranty? I would think if it's still under warranty, they will either replace the unit, or fix it, which should have the same end result for you.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: neidz on July 05, 2010, 06:54:24 PM
I had a radical prostetectomy July of 2007.  I developed Peyronies about a 1.5 years ago. 

I kind of chewed out my Eurologist in May 2010--(supposed to be one of the most qualified on Peyronies in the Western States), he pretty much told me to take a hike.  I was only frustrated because all the doctors I have seen are so passive and act like there is nothing you can do.  They only throw out options for you to choose from.  I don't know if it's a liability issue or what.  I don't blame anyone, I just want to get on the most logical track.

A couple months ago I commented on the Fastsize.  I thought it was aggravating the plaque.  I believe I returned it in February this year.  My size and girth have reduced probably 20%--probably more since I quit using the Fastsize, based on my wife's input.  Fastsize obviously was meeting my needs in those areas.  I have been taking Pentox for about 4 months.  I tried to buy the Augusta 3 cylinder VED unit about March timeframe--my insurance (Altius) refused to cover it.  I am going to send an explanation and hopefully have them reconsider.  I am a little confused which direction to go now, after procrastinating.  I definitely want to regain the length and girth shorterm, but want to address the curvature long term.  I probably used the Fastsize too agressively--causing a lot of pain from cutting off blood circulation and the constant pull in several areas of the penis.  I used the Fastsize in several ways and angles--thinking the typical setting was pushing on the curvature and increasing the degrees of the curve.

Has anyone ever tried using both methods--the VED and the Fastsize for a stretch of time...............
Neidz

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on July 06, 2010, 08:53:33 AM
Quote from: neidz on July 05, 2010, 06:54:24 PM
I had a radical prostetectomy July of 2007.  I developed Peyronies about a 1.5 years ago. 

I kind of chewed out my Eurologist in May 2010--(supposed to be one of the most qualified on Peyronies in the Western States), he pretty much told me to take a hike.  I was only frustrated because all the doctors I have seen are so passive and act like there is nothing you can do.  They only throw out options for you to choose from.  I don't know if it's a liability issue or what.  I don't blame anyone, I just want to get on the most logical track.

A couple months ago I commented on the Fastsize.  I thought it was aggravating the plaque.  I believe I returned it in February this year.  My size and girth have reduced probably 20%--probably more since I quit using the Fastsize, based on my wife's input.  Fastsize obviously was meeting my needs in those areas.  I have been taking Pentox for about 4 months.  I tried to buy the Augusta 3 cylinder VED unit about March timeframe--my insurance (Altius) refused to cover it.  I am going to send an explanation and hopefully have them reconsider.  I am a little confused which direction to go now, after procrastinating.  I definitely want to regain the length and girth shorterm, but want to address the curvature long term.  I probably used the Fastsize too agressively--causing a lot of pain from cutting off blood circulation and the constant pull in several areas of the penis.  I used the Fastsize in several ways and angles--thinking the typical setting was pushing on the curvature and increasing the degrees of the curve.

Has anyone ever tried using both methods--the VED and the Fastsize for a stretch of time...............
Neidz



I am using both. I've gained a little big of length and girth (up to and beyond what I lost) and it has improved erection quality by a lot.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Davea on July 08, 2010, 12:43:58 AM
Quote from: mike67 on June 30, 2010, 11:10:46 PM
Is anyone presently using a Sex Shop VED? My Urologist, after being diagnosed last week , sent me to "Arent We Naughty "( that is the correct store name) and I selected a Precision Pump from California Exotic Novelties 
Joined just last week and shared this info with the Old Man. He is supportive but mentioned it will take longer to achieve results. We since exchanged messages when I thought I would look seriously at Fitzz.
But - in the meantime - does anyone have any comments on their experiences and results, if any, with a single chamber "sex shop" pump?
I am on my 8 th night using the Jackp / Old Man protocol.

Mike67

Yes, I have one but only because I'm living in a country where I can't get the 3 cylinder medical grade model. I had quite impressive results (reduction in curvature and reduction of the 'hour glass effect') after only a couple of weeks use but then after 2 months I held the vacuum for too long (30-45 seconds rather than 10-20 seconds) and developed bruising and swelling. After checking with Old Man, God bless him, I stopped using it. It took 2 months for the bruising to disappear so I've only recently, and very carefully, started again. BTW everything I gained during the first 2 months I lost during the healing period so stick strictly to the protocol would be my advice.

IMHO a 'sex-shop' pump is better than not doing anything. Any improvement is better than just praying for the 'magic cure' to come along.

I'm just about to move - does anyone know where I can buy the Soma (or another medical grade) pump in Europe? I've tried the US distributor but they just don't answer my emails.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 08, 2010, 07:57:21 AM
Davea:

I am sorry that you did not get an answer from the Fitzz company. They do ship all over the world, even to countries where there is no distributor of Augusta Medical Systems VEDs. Go to this link and get their web site URL address and send an email to the president of the Fitzz company, Mr. Mark Osenga. Advise him of your needs and he should be able to work out a way for you to get the Vitality OTC three cylinder VED should you still desire to get one. It might cost the extra shipping charges, but I am sure the company can ship internationally.

www.fitzz.com

Let me know if I can help in any way with your getting the attention of the company. In the past, I have arranged for guys in several countries to get their VEDs.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Davea on July 08, 2010, 10:01:07 PM
Old Man,

Thanks for the advice - I'll give it a shot and let you know how it goes.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: mike67 on July 08, 2010, 10:19:28 PM
Davea
Thanks for commenting on my post. I actually placed a "get quote " order on line with Fitzz today. I called them but Mark is away til Monday so will just speak with him then to get a warm & cozy feeling about them. The Old Man is a great help in setting everything up for patients like us , and strongly recommends them. I see he has already be in contact with you .

Good luck .

Mike
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Davea on July 09, 2010, 02:20:14 AM
Quote from: Old Man on July 08, 2010, 07:57:21 AM
Davea:

I am sorry that you did not get an answer from the Fitzz company. They do ship all over the world, even to countries where there is no distributor of Augusta Medical Systems VEDs. Go to this link and get their web site URL address and send an email to the president of the Fitzz company, Mr. Mark Osenga. Advise him of your needs and he should be able to work out a way for you to get the Vitality OTC three cylinder VED should you still desire to get one. It might cost the extra shipping charges, but I am sure the company can ship internationally.

www.fitzz.com

Let me know if I can help in any way with your getting the attention of the company. In the past, I have arranged for guys in several countries to get their VEDs.

Old Man

Old Man,

Don't know what happened the last time I tried to contact Fitzz but today I managed to get the price online for Spain (where I am moving to). The shipping cost is more than $120, but that's UPS for you I guess. Anyway I'm going to go ahead and order one. I've had such good results with the single cylinder model I'm anxious to get going with the real deal.

Thanks again for the help.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 09, 2010, 10:10:01 AM
Davea:

If you are not leaving for Spain right away, you might want to place the order with Fitzz now and have them ship it to you expedited shipping. This would cost way less than overseas UPS charges. You probably could get it delivered in 3 or 4 days this way too.

If you decide to to do this place your order by phone so that you can talk directly with a sales rep who can make the expedited handling for you.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Davea on July 11, 2010, 12:11:08 AM
Old Man,

Problem is I'm in South East Asia right now. I did manage, after a lot of surfing, to find a UK website which sells the SomaCorrect Xtra (which seems to be the same thing as Fitzz offers; 3 tubes etc). The total price though, including postage, is almost exactly the same as Fitzz even with their $128 UPS charge.

It might be a good reference for anyone living in the UK though - website is http://www.imedicare.eu/onlinestore.html

Davea
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Old Man on July 11, 2010, 07:49:40 AM
Davea:

OK, I was under the assumption you were still Stateside. Yes, I checked out the site you mentioned. The prices seem to be very good based on the fact that you are out of the USA. It appears that the VED package you mentioned is basically the same as the Vitality unit from Fitzz.

There are many different models of VEDs made by Augusta and I believe many are made special for their distributors.

Anyway, thanks for posting the link as it will help a lot of folks in the Euro and other areas overseas from the USA.

Old Man
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: rontherube on August 02, 2010, 06:36:35 PM


I am new here and have Peyronies Disease for about 6 months live in texas no one knows much about Peyronies Disease looking for direction
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: LWillisjr on August 02, 2010, 09:14:33 PM
It would help if you could post some additional information. Because the advice you receive will depend on several factors. All the way from how long you have had Peyronies Disease (not just how long you have been diagnosed), degree of curvature, pain or no pain, etc. You will find a lot of great information here and many willing to offer advice.
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Starflower on August 16, 2010, 04:46:55 AM
I've been doing nothing but read about Peyronie's for the last week or so but can't find much information about pain and sex/erections.  My husband's urologist gave him the "wait and see what happens" advice.  So now I'm thinking we a)need a better urologist and b)should do some research ourselves...     

A lot of men seem to use VEDs.  Am I right that it's ok to use them in the early stages - possible even a good idea?  My husband tells me he's in a lot of pain though and his urologist told him not to have sex (advice he has followed).  In fact he's been avoiding any intimacy with me in case he gets an erection.  He was diagnosed last month-we were about to start trying for a baby.

Are erections ok if there's pain?  Is the urologist right that since it's at such an early stage in the disease sex will worsen the outcome?  I'm happy to go without sex for now if it improves the eventual outcome.

Does it depend on the stage of the disease?  It seems most men using VEDs have had Peyronie's for a while. Does not having erections slow the progression of the disease in the first stages or when there's pain? I know these questions aren't directly related to VEDs but since I've been assuming my husband can never again have an erection (without pain and dire consequences) it's strange to see that erections can be a treatment. 

I'm also afraid to suggest something like that to a man afraid of erections without a urologist saying it's a good idea - but where do we find a good urologist (not in the US)?  Do urologists recommend VEDs?  I'm confused!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: BrooksBro on August 16, 2010, 06:01:03 AM
Texas is a BIG state.  I live in Houston.  The urologist I had been seeing for my annual exam said "take vitamin E and come back in a year to talk about plication surgery."  His Rx for anti-inflammatory pain medicine worked great to eliminate the severe pain on erection.  I took his advice about the vitamin E, and went to another doctor. 

Since November 2009, I have been seeing Larry Lipshultz, head of the Baylor urology department.  Lipshultz knows A LOT about treating peyronie's.  I am very pleased with the treatment I am receiving.  At my first visit, he started me on pentoxyfilline 400 mg 3X, L-Arginine, 25 mg viagra nightly (known as the PAV coctail, or triple therapy), and FastSize traction device.  He since added testosterone to get my level into the normal range.  http://www.bcm.edu/urology/index.cfm?pmid=9953

Where ever you are in Texas, Southwest Airlines can get you to Hobby Airport, and the medical center is nearby (by Texas standards).

Quote from: rontherube on August 02, 2010, 06:36:35 PM

I am new here and have Peyronies Disease for about 6 months live in texas no one knows much about Peyronies Disease looking for direction

Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Mike_O on August 16, 2010, 10:35:41 AM
StarFlower

Welcome to the forum - perhaps the best internet site for learning about Peyronie's Disease. I encourage you AND your husband to spend many hours reading the info and posts here. Also check out the forum specifically for women. Reading this 50+ page thread about VEDs will show you that many folks are exploring various therapy approaches to Peyronie's but it may be a bit overwhelming for you at this point. I suggest you get an overview and "big picture" then focus on various therapy approaches.

Keep in mind many men and their partners have successfully overcome the effects of this condition - however knowledge and effort sure does help the process.

There is hope!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: Mike_O on August 17, 2010, 08:30:42 PM
MODERATORS

Please consider closing this thread to new posts. It is 51 pages and 2523 posts spanning 5 years. This thread is very helpful so please don't delete. It takes many hours to read through the entire thread and I doubt most folks will take the time to do so. It seems more helpful if the threads are more topic specific.

Thanks for your service to the community here!
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: skunkworks on August 19, 2010, 04:42:32 AM
Quote from: Starflower on August 16, 2010, 04:46:55 AMIn fact he's been avoiding any intimacy with me in case he gets an erection.  He was diagnosed last month-we were about to start trying for a baby.

I don't think sex will cause harm as long as it is careful, but not having regular erections will cause his penis damage and make the end result worse. Erections keep the penis healthy.
Title: Saving this thread as an archive
Post by: Angus on August 19, 2010, 06:35:53 PM
  Thanks Mike for the suggestion. The topic is now saved as an archive for reading only. It is also locked and no new posts can be made. I agree that threads that are more topic-specific will be easier for members new and not-so-new to glean information from. Any members that were carrying on a discussion in this thread are welcome to create a new thread with a title that represents the subject of discussion... Angus
Title: Re: VED's - Vacuum Erection Devices
Post by: james1947 on May 01, 2018, 02:26:42 PM
***Warning***
Do NOT overpump.  Read all protocols BEFORE using the VED