Causes, treatments, medications, and techniques associated with erectile dysfunction
Share your experiences.
Hawk, Administrator Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:19 am
Most men with high blood pressure know that 'nasal decongestants can raise blood pressure'. Most men that take Viagra know it can lower blood pressure, even dangerously so. This is one more example of how decongestants and drugs like Viagra work as antagonists to each other. I am surprised more on this is not dispensed to the public since this is information that all doctors accept as fact. An antidote for prolonged erection (priapism) is 4 Sudafed. If this fails to reduce a prolonged erection the next level of intervention is a neosynephrine injection into the cavernosa. Neosynephrine is a vaso suppressor. It actually works by activating the adrenalin receptors. Adrenalin receptors constrict the blood vessels. I am told that it works instantly. I know that sudafed works because I have had priapism and used sudafed intervention more than once.
This brings up another ED point. Adrenaline is a strong direct antagonist to an erection. You may have no anxiety about your understanding spouse of 40 years, and scoff at "performance anxiety", but if you are anxious or stressed about whether your penis will be able to get erect, will it be more curved than before, will it be painful, or any such thing, your body can produce adrenalin as a result. The adrenalin activates these same receptors that cause an involuntary constriction of the blood vessels and your penis WILL shut down. Decongestants and adrenaline are two of the many things that you should try to avoid if you have ED problems. Unless you ask however, your doctor, even the good ones, are not likely to mention this. The final "Catch 22" is that the more you worry about producing adrenaline, the more you are likely to produce it.
Joshua, Global Moderator Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:46 pm
I strongly suggest:Large doses of L-arginine(alpha-ketoglutarate) I suggest 5 grams 2.5 mid afternoon and 2.5 one hour before sex
Hawk, Administrator Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:09 am
I wonder if there is anyone without high blood pressure that gets decent erections that would like to waste one for an experiment? Since 4 red Sudafed kill an erection from bimix injections, it would be interesting to confirm that they interfere with an erection from any source. I am sure they do.
The experiment: Take 4 Sudafed on a fairly empty stomach. Wait 30 minutes and do whatever to obtain an erection. Note whether your erection quality is diminished. If your partner gets mad, tell her it was for science.
Hawk, Administrator Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:22 am
I am not sure how well this is known in these circles but the general population of men associate erection and orgasm because the one always precedes the other in a healthy male. The fact is that there is no connection between the two. Any individual several weeks after prostate surgery will tell you that erection ability is likely to be zero. Orgasm however can be even more intense than it was pre-surgery.
I was stunned the first time I leaned that there is no connection. I was more stunned the first time I ever experienced it, not only is this a interesting fact, It illustrates that a sex life in some form, is almost always possible.
dcaptain Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:18 pm
A question to get everyone's opinion:
In the acute phase of Peyronies Disease, do you think it hurts or helps to have increased sexual activity? I can't tell if I'm doing more damage or helping the cause. I know this has come up before but I'd love to hear everyone's personal opinion.
joshuaPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 1:12 am dcaptain wrote:
QuoteIn the acute phase of Peyronies Disease, do you think it hurts or helps to have increased sexual activity? I can't tell if I'm doing more damage or helping the cause. I know this has come up before but I'd love to hear everyone's personal opinion.
Dcaptain:
This is a very good and a very smart question. I wish I would have thought about that question when I was in that phase. I have an opinion to share and my own Drs Opinion.
I think it is vital NOT to engage in intercourse/masturbation during the inflammation/acute phase of Peyronies Disease. I think it causes more damage. If I had it to do over and know what I now know about Peyronies Disease, I would avoid erections, use ice packs, and swallow ibuprofen all in the effort to keep the inflammation/damage to a bare minimum during this dangerous phase in Peyronies Disease.
My Dr made a great statement, "that if it hurts do NOT do it." Pain is the body's way to make you avoid something.
This is also where I disagree with Old Man about his VED use. I think the ved should not be used during this phase. He feels it is somewhat safe if done"safely".
If you are going to have sex during this phase , please be very very careful. It seems like at this stage of Peyronies Disease any little sexual mishap will end in a brand new piece of plaque.
Hawk, Administrator Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:37 am
I will post more on this later. For now I just say that Dr. Mulhall who is possibly the most identified name associated with Peyronies Disease treatment would disagree. In fact he specifically iinsisted that I continue to inject bimix into my penis 2 - 3 times per week for erections.
After careful consideration and research I made it clear I would not do that. My refusal was based more on the potential damage from the needle and the mixture itself than because I wanted to avoid erections.
Infact I take Viagra in an attempt to get as much of an erection as possible.
Hawk, Administrator Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:30 pm
I have covered my dilemma with needing to induce erection in the 24 months after prostate surgery to induce nerve growth and maintain healthy penile tissue. For the first 12 months 100 mg Viagra did NOTHING for me. Now (15 months post op) Viagra gets me sooooooo close to a usable erection. In fact, it is slightly better than a stuffable erection. I started getting night-time erections (NTE) at about 12 months but very sporadic unless I was sleeping through them, and I was so aware I would check in my sleep.
Strangely my Night Time Erections (NTE) with no Viagra are as good as my 100 mg Viagra erections. Also strangely, if I awake with one it dies with in 2 minutes of waking up. My only explanation is anxiety based adrenalin kicking in, but that is difficult to accept..
I take 33 mg (1/3 tab) of Viagra nightly, not for erections but because Dr. Mulhall and others say it stimulates nerve growth. Well the dilemma is that I quit the magic bimix injections that I think caused my Peyronies Disease. So, I have to figure out how to get 3 intercourse-quality erections per week for nerve growth. Due to cost and other concerns 33 mg of Viagra 6 nights a week and 100 mg 1 night a week is all I care to take. Since NTE count as well, I just got my GP to prescribe Trazadone - (Desyrel) 25 mg per nite. It is an antidepressant / sleep aid. The smallest pill is 50mg so this is a low dose. I do have some mild depression but I am taking it for the side effect of prolonged, inappropriate or painful erection (priapism).
At this stage, I have no clue what an inappropriate erection would be. If I had one at church I would probably jump up and make an announcement. I have first hand information from a very knowledgeable source that this drug causes a lot of NTE activity thus obviating the need for the injections. The good part is the cost. This is a whopping $1.08 for a months supply.
I will keep you posted. I just took my first pill.
bob Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:30 am
Hawk,
I had a major depressive episode in 1989 after my girlfriend broke up with me... right after sex. But that's another story for another day!
I became a zombie from not sleeping properly for three months. I read up like crazy on tranquilizers and antidepressants. I was like a zombie after not sleeping properly for months. I remember trazodone was the first of a new class of drugs at the time - this was before Prozac and all the others. There were some wierd side effects listed for it, one of which was something called "retrogade ejaculation."
It sounded like something to steer clear of.
My MD went through a bunch of different meds and the one that finally gave me rest was Elavil.
What is a "stuffable" erection and how is it usuitable?
Bob
Old Man Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:35 am
Bob:
Hawkman:
Read your posts with great interest. I too went through the depressed stages during my 20s when Peyronies Disease first hit. My family doctor who was a first cousin told me that using drugs like that would cause me more problems especially later in life. So, I refused to take them when more than one doctor highly recommended them.
Of course, they have their place in true deep depressive patients, but if one can stay away from them, the better off they will be, etc.
Also, most of these drugs have very bad sexual side effects. The main one being that they lower the blood pressure and that in turn prevents a good natural erection. After my prostate cancer left me totally impotent, I used Viagra 100 mg tablets which gave me prolonged erections and I had to use antihistimine type drugs to relieve them so as to not caust priapism. These drugs are sometimes used for depression. I soon learned to leave them off as it precluded erections for quite a number of days.
The above is furnished only as what happened in my case. What happens for others is based on their physical situation.
Old Man
Hawk, Administrator Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:47 pm Quotebob:
What is a "stuffable" erection and how is it unsuitable?
Bob
A stuffable erection is one rigid enough to stuff in but it really is not suitable for hands free intercourse. This is probably not a strict medical term :D
ED doctors usual measure erections on a scale of 1 to 10 with 6 being suitable for normal intercourse and 10 being the best erection you ever had at any age. Stuffable would be at a 5.
In response to Bob and Old Man, I am convinced from research, personal experience, and doctor recommendations that getting blood flow to the tissues regularly during the first 18 to 24 months post prostatectomy is critical in regrowing damaged nerves and maintaining healthy erectile tissue. Nature tries to keep us functional with NTE several times during every sleep cycle. These erections pull oxygen rich blood to the penis and the entire prostate capsule area where the unseen part of the penis is hidden from view. This is the area where the nerves controlling blood flow get damaged during a prostatectomy.
My personal view is that Viagra is extremely safe for anyone without heart or high blood pressure problems.
As far as trazodone (Desylrel) is concerned , I am taking it at less than half of a minimum dose a prescribed for depression.. I do have some low grade depression on some days but it is very manageable. I am not taking trazodone for depression but for the side effect of nocturnal erections to keep the blood flowing in order to obviate the need for ED injections.
My preliminary repot based on 1/2 of a tablet on one night, is that I had more NTE's last night then any time since my prostatectomy surgery. My evaluation may be skewed because I have been working on the web site very late and I am too tired to make an assessment when I am in a fog in the middle of the night.
IF trazodone does continue giving me night time erections for one dollar and eight cents a month, I see no significant risk issues. Normal dosage ranges from 75 to 400 mg per day. I take 25 mg per day right before bedtime.
Last night's dose was the best 3 cents I ever spent :D
Now to give credit where credit is due. Kid from the APDA shared the trazodone information with me a couple months ago. I have never heard or read it any place else. I think anyone that knows Kid will vouch, that when it comes to Peyronies Disease experts outside of the medical field, he probably has few superiors. Based on his information, i approached my Family Doctor who is a GREAT doctor.
He prescribed a less than minimal dose for 1 month.
bob Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:46 am
Thanks for the clarification, and there have been a number of occasions when my wife has needed to "stuff" me - all since the onset of my Peyronies Disease. It was actually Pat in Dr. Mulhall's office who delicately informed me that my drug-induced erection was less than optimal. This was after that god-awful injection they give you to make you hard for a sonogram. (And this was even after the two shots I needed. Pat was going to give me a third, but Dr. M said my erection was workable for the purposes of the sonogram.)
I read with interest Old Man's post regarding the fact that antidepressants lower blood pressure. By reverse logic, does that mean depression can cause your blood pressure to go up? Just wondering.
Old Man Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:16 am
Bob:
This is what all the uros in urology group tell me. Anything that helps a person with depression has a tendancy to lower blood pressure especially if one already is taking some heart meds. Have no clinical proof of this, but just what the docs tell us in our cancer support group meetings. Since most of the radical prostatectomy guys present also are of an advanced age, they suffer from most of the "old people's" disorders, etc. As one gets older and on into their 70s and 80s, lose their mate, have all the known problems of the aged, and live alone do get very depressed.
Depression takes on many and varied facets and every person suffers from different symptoms. One of my sister's who lived in an assisted home had maniac depression for years before her death took many antidepressant drugs and her blood pressure stayed well below normal all the time. So, go figure, who knows?
Old Man
Hawk, Administrator Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:59 pm
I have to report that this does not require any further evaluation for the side effect of erection with this patient.
A 3 cent dose caused me to wake with possibly a 10 on the erection scale (different than the rector scale). This probably exceeds any erection in 15 1/2 months since surgery including those from injections. Unlike my typical 5's or 6's a few times a week, this remained for several minutes after waking. I am now interested in what it does if taken earlier in the day. Why would this not result in a Viagra type effect? Are some people more susceptible to this side effect than others? Again, I take 25 mg. What are people that take 400 mg experiencing? Why don't more people know about this?
Short of the fact that I have moderate Peyronies Disease, I have never had a better erection. Significant when considering I never had a single ED moment in my life prior to surgery.
[bJoshua, Global moderator ]Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:36 pm [/b]
My wife has an unused bottle of trazodone. She got it for post partum depression but never used it. I have been looking at that bottle ever since reading your interesting post.
I will likely try one 100mg for the hell of it and report back...
Hawk, Administrator Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:47 pm QuoteJoshua:
My wife has an unused bottle of trazodone. She got it for post partum depression but never used it. I have been looking at that bottle ever since reading your interesting post.
I will likely try one 100mg for the hell of it and report back...
Joshua, I take
25 mg. thats all it takes. Hell you will sleep through any response you have. Also,
take it with food. it absorbs better.
Joshua, global Moderator Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:59 pm
Urol. 1991 Jan;145(1):60-4. Related Articles, Links
Pathophysiology of prolonged penile erection associated with trazodone use.
Saenz de Tejada I, Ware JC, Blanco R, Pittard JT, Nadig PW, Azadzoi KM, Krane RJ, Goldstein I.
Department of Urology, Boston University Medical Center, Massachusetts.
Treatment with the antidepressant trazodone has been associated with the occurrence of prolonged penile erection and priapism. To evaluate the effect of trazodone on erection we monitored the periodic physiological sleep-related erections in 6 healthy volunteers in a double-blind crossover study comparing the effect of trazodone, trimipramine (a tricyclic antidepressant) and placebo. In addition, to determine the effects of trazodone on the neurovascular control of penile smooth muscle we performed in vitro studies on corpus cavernosum tissue obtained from patients undergoing penile prosthesis implantation. Trazodone significantly increased the total interval of nocturnal erectile activity, while trimipramine had no effect. During the high dose treatment (nights 4 and 5) the average duration of erectile activity per night with placebo was 158 +/- 41 minutes (mean +/- standard deviation) for night 4 and 177 +/- 21 minutes for night 5. During trazodone treatment the erectile activity per night was significantly prolonged to 285 +/- 115 minutes during night 4 and 232 +/- 86 during night 5 (p less than 0.01). Analysis of the erectile activity in relation to the rapid eye movement sleep period during which erectile activity usually occurs revealed that the detumescence phase of erection, under sympathetic control, was significantly prolonged an average of 2.4 times by trazodone compared to placebo (p less than 0.05). In vitro, trazodone at concentrations comparable to those reached in plasma significantly impaired corporeal smooth muscle contractions elicited by electrical stimulation of adrenergic nerves and antagonized contractions induced by exogenous norepinephrine. We conclude that trazodone can enhance penile erection in man and propose a mechanism related to the alpha-adrenoceptor blocking properties of trazodone by interference with the sympathetic control of penile detumescence.
[bJoshua, global Moderator ]Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:04 pm [/b]
Hawkman:
She has 100mg. I will quarter it. I am going to try one tonight. I don't have ed problems but I would welcome a 10 on the erection meter anytime!
I think strong erections help break/stretch plaque. I still have one piece that refuse to go away.
bob Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:05 am
Maybe I've been in kind of a daze, or maybe this has crept up on me for a long time. I have always thought of ED as something along the lines of "can't get it up when it's required." Lately, however, I've noticed that it's more along the lines of "just don't get it up that much, period."
Does that make sense? I'm 49 and I can remember a time - not at all long ago - when erections were powerful, frequent... and needed relief. Rueful to admit, that just doesn't happen :'(
I rarely find that I wake with one, whether it's in the middle of the night, in the morning, thinking about or watching something sexy, etc.
In my early days of Peyronies Disease I found that I withdrew somewhat sexually from my wife, in part because I found any manipulation of my penis to be painful. I also didn't like to remind myself of what I once had. Problem is, now that the pain is gone I find my desire level to be lower.
Your thoughts? Is this a common thing?
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Old Man Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:56 pm
Bob:
Yes, in a way it is a common thing for men to lose some of their libido as they age. Others go on into very late life and still have the required amount to perform. In my experience with working with a lot of men in the men's health field, that has been the case. Talk to one guy and he has no problem with ability to perform. Talk to another one and he will state that problem existed since about 45 or older. Some guys begin to lose their ability in their 50s, others 60s and so on down the age line.
So, when this develops, one must look for alternative ways to "get it up" and be able to perform. In my case, I was about 55 when my noticed that I was slipping in the ability world. I started using a so called "cock ring" to be able to hold one long enough for satisfactory performance.
After prostate cancer surgery left me totally impotent and the penile injections gave me more Peyronies Disease symptoms, Viagra and the other ED drugs did nothing for me, I started using the VED. This one thing proved to be what gave me back my ability to perform as I once did.
Not saying that this method will work for all, but it did for me. You might want to try it to see if it will work for you.
Old Man
bob Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:14 pm
Thanks, Old Man. I do intend to ask for a VED prescription. First O need tp get the lowdown on how successful... or not... my verapamil injection treatment was. I have to go back on Oct. 11 for a reassessment.
What got me thinking was Hawkman's use of the term "stuffable erection" earlier in the discussion thread. I kind of think most of mine are what you would call a "stuffable erection," as opposed to the self-guided missile variety. (Sorry for the analogy, but it kind of works, doesn't it?) I was also interested in finding out what other guys do. I mean,it seems as if many take Viagra and other medications on a regular basis... for therapeutic purposes... regardless of what one plans to do for the night. Is that experimental, or do some physicians advise doing that?
Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:05 pm
Quotebob:
,it seems as if many take Viagra and other medications on a regular basis... for therapeutic purposes... regardless of what one plans to do for the night. Is that experimental, or do some physicians advise doing that?
Dr. Mulhall and many other doctors recommend it. I have taken 1/3 of a 100mg Viagra every night I did not use an ED injection of bimix. I will tell you though Bob, the tiny dose of trazodone works better for me at this stage than anything to keep nocturnal erections going. I will have more to report on this soon.
I wonder if Joshua has a trazodone report?
Also Bob, this is pretty personal but I never had a second of ED for 54 years. In fact, I could maintain an erection long after orgasm and could have more than one orgasm from an erection I think this is rare. I went to sleep in an operating room realizing how my life may change. A compassionate nurse (whose name I did not get) saw a tear in the corner of my eye and came to hold my hand. God, how I appreciated that short act of compassion. I will forever be able to see her in my mind. I awoke from prostate surgery to ZERO erections for 4 months, for the next 8 months only when I injected bimix. Sex would feel great, your mind told you must have a huge erection, but I looked down and could not even relate, that what I saw, could be my body. It was so distracting and non-erotic that I had to focus on my wife and forget me. I felt like some women must that take a while to warm up and get into it. It took a while to get past the distraction. I had such bad ED that I could start out at a 1 (from temperature or whatever) and shrink to coldwater status in the midst of stimulation. That was with a whole Viagra.
The progress has been slow, and then the Peyronies Disease hit me. I too avoided sex because it made me face what was no more. Sex always started with overwhelming psychological pain from the sense of loss. I had to battle past that to even get to the pleasure part. I learned to forget about my body and focus on hers.
Now there is some ED improvement with night time erections and weak Viagra erections on a whole tablet. My Peyronies Disease is manageable at this stage. I actually prefer less than a rock hard erection because the curve is more manageable.
Bob, sometimes I think, what if Ihad been paralyzed for years and someone told me they could restore everything but the nerves to my penis. How thankful would I be? How elated? While we are fighting back, we have to focus on what we do have . We can't let one unfortunate condition rob us of the enjoyment of what we do have. You know, It only takes one more diagnoses to make us wish we were back to having everything that we now regret having.
I don't share this because I think you don't know it Bob, I'm just muttering out loud.
Hang in there. (No pun intended ) ;D
cialis takes care of my erection problems quite well.
I too, am a faithful Cialis fan. It's there when you need it...for a nice 24 or so hour period of time. It's reassuring to have a dependable erection, regardless of the bend...or diminished size I am left with.
I've taken viagra but never cialis, with Viagra I get the blue haze, anxious feeling and stuffy nose, not really too romantic, actually I feel like a little like an alien :D, with the stuffy nose, permanent wood and everything in a blue haze. On a serious note, do you get those symptoms with cialis? Or do you get those symtoms in the first few hours and then they subside. The feeling are pretty intense with me with viagra and I can't imgaine have them for 36 hours. Thanks
Steven
I got a bit of blue haze with my first Viagra. It never happened again. I do get a bit of a stuffy nose. Stuffy nose is caused by blood flow in the nasal membranes. Interestingly, most things that kill a stuffy nose, also kill erections (Sudafed, Neosynephrine)
Cialis does less for me in the erection department and leaves me with a nagging lower backache about 3 days after I take it. Delayed onset backache is a listed side effect. I don't know if it is caused by kidney pain or what, but I got it 4 out of 4 times. That was enough for me.
My reaction to Viagra was significant. The blue haze, headache, congestion, increased heart rate. Cialis works well for me with only very minor nazal congestion as a side effect. For my best results however, 24 hours is as long as the benefits last, on the max 20mg dose. Some men report a 2-3 day effect, but not in my case. Viagra did work in my case, but only for a limited 4 hours or so. I have only been using either one sporadically and recently, however.
I get no blue haze from Viagra but do get a stuffy nose, flushed face and slight light-headedness. It does a good job otherwise. While we are on the subject, how many of us were using Viagra, et al, in the period immediately PRIOR to the onset of Peyronies Disease? I began using it a little more frequently in the months before...
Kevin,
That is an interesting question. I was using Viagara before the onset of Peyronies Disease. In fact I was using it when I received the trauma that I believe triggered the Peyronies Disease.
Quote from: kevin on October 05, 2005, 03:05:42 AM
. While we are on the subject, how many of us were using Viagra, et al, in the period immediately PRIOR to the onset of Peyronies Disease? I began using it a little more frequently in the months before...
I have had Peyronies Disease for 2 years now. This has resulted in a slight bend to the left and ED. I also have a feeling of numbness in my member and a lack of sensation compared to what it used to be like. Does anyone else have this numbness feeling? If so what are they taking to try to overcome this, as I am sure that this is a factor in my ED problem?
Has anyone been prescribed Testosterone injections for their ED? Have they noticed any improvement?
I have been precribed Testosterone injections every 2 weeks and half a 20mg Cialis tablet every day. Erections have improved but only tend to last a few minutes, I'm hoping that with time things will improve. I have had Peyronies Disease for 2 years and hope to get married next year.
Kevin,
I also started using Viagra just prior to the onset of my Peyronies Disease. I have a theory about a possible connection which I posted a year or so ago on the BTC forum. At that time I was looking for others who developed Peyronies Disease after using an ED drug. I even discussed it with Dr. Gelbard on his site and received an interesting reply.
I'll go into it here under the proper topic heading if you or anyone else would like for me to do so.
Larry H
Please DO go into it, Larry. I assume this thread/topic is as good as any other.
So far, I have assumed that any correlation would be due simply to the understandable risk of increased and prolonged activity that is enabled by ED drugs, (assumig the trauma theory is true ,of course). The incredible number of men supposedly using such drugs would mean an incredible number of Peyronies Disease cases if it were actually a cause in itself, (i.e., without co-factors or predispositions). Nevertheless, if a strong majority of Peyronies Disease patients like ourselves report having started ED drugs not long before onset (or had recently increased such use, as I did), it might suggest causality, although it may only apply to people who are susceptible in ways still unknown.
By the way, maybe we could add to this discussion one other thing about Viagra, etc: the need for larger condoms (for those who wear them). Just before Peyronies Disease, I found it almost painful wearing the ones I had on hand once the erections became extra "hefty" with Viagra. Could such constriction be a factor?
Kevin,
I will go into the theory later today, but will do so under the "Causes of Peyronie's" topic.
Larry
Quote from: ned on October 06, 2005, 08:21:35 AM
Quote from: Joshua on October 05, 2005, 09:05:45 AM
Ned:
Why don't you add "none" to your poll?
Josh
Josh.
If ithe answer is "none" then you don't have a persistant erection problem.
NED
Ned,
Thanks for pointing the obvious. However, a poll should include all variables to be accurate. Having Peyronies Disease without erection problems is a possibility just as sometimes or occasionally are possibilities. This is likely why your participation in poll has been weak. I was trying to make a helpful suggestion to improve your poll and poll participation. For example I could not vote because I do not have persistant erection problems.
From those of you who know me from my past post you may recall that although my Peyronies Disease did cause some curvature it was minor. The problem my Peyronies Disease caused and still does is erection quality. After about 6 months from the onset of my Peyronies Disease, my erection quality began to diminish. It remains my major problem today. Over the last 4 months I've been seeing a urologist in a nearby state that specializes in sexual dysfunction problems. After about a million tests, he told me 3-4 things that was good news and 2-4 things that was bad news. The GOOD news from the test results are the doctor believes that although my Peyronies Disease is probably causing some of my erection problems he feels certain it is not the main culprit. The BAD news is these same test results show I have signs of being in the early stages of (peripheral artery disease.) Basically I have hardening in one of the main of arteries that feeds blood to my lower extremities. Because of the lack of blood, that means there is also a lack of oxygen to my muscles in my lower legs which in turn causes pain in my calve muscles when I walk more than a 1/4 mile or so. More BAD news: this same artery that shows hardening is also one of the main arteries that feeds blood to some of the smaller arteries that feeds blood to my penis. More BAD news: there is nothing that can be done to reverse the hardening. A stint or bypass can help, but the doctor does not feel I'm at that point yet. GOOD news: there are things that can be done to stop the hardening from getting worse. More GOOD news: there are a few other main arteries that feeds blood to my lower legs and they also feed blood to the smaller arteries that feeds blood to my penis. More GOOD news: these other arteries can accommodate for the lack of blood flow caused by the hardening in the one artery. BAD news: these other arteries do not know they have to make up for the artery that has hardened and thus decreased blood flow. BAD news: basically this is done by lots and lots and lots of walking. When my calves start to hurt bad, I would stop and let the pain subside and then start walking again and the just keep repeating the process. I'll need to do this on a daily basis. GOOD news: eventually the other arteries will accommodate for the lack of blood flow caused by the hardened artery and my calves will stop hurting and more blood flow will return to my penis thus making for better erections. BAD news: just like the one that has already started to harden, these other arteries can also harden as well. GOOD news: this hardening of the other arteries can be prevented. REALLY, REALLY BAD news: there are about 4-5 things that can be done to prevent hardening from starting in the other arteries, but the main one, the big one, the one at the top of the list is I absolutely MUST stop smoking. The doctor said that without a doubt this is the key thing. He said if I did all the other things except stop smoking it may slightly slow the process, but only slightly. The stop smoking thing is a MUST. The doctor said if I don't stop smoking, the chances of me getting normalcy in my erections is about slim to none. He said that not only does my smoking greatly increase the chances of my existing clogged arteries getting worse increased and creating new hardening in other arteries, but smoking just in and of itself can play a major, major role in lack of erection quality. Much more than most men realize. BAD news: I've tried to quit 3-4 times in the past with very little success. I think one time I went about a month.
You may be wondering why I wrote this post. (2 reasons)
1) As to how does it apply to Peyronies Disease. Smoking decreases lack of blood flow which in turn decreases oxygen being carried through out the body, including the penis. For anything to have any chance of healing it must have oxygen, period! A decrease of blood flow means a decrease of blood in the penis, thus lower quality erections. Some out there who are having erection problems and are blaming it all on your Peyronies Disease, don't be too quick to make that judgment. Although I'm sure there are some out there that has erection problems that is caused totally by their Peyronies Disease, there are also many others whose erection problems are not totally caused by Peyronies Disease. I was without a doubt one of those. I became so fixated on my Peyronies Disease; I just did not take into consideration that there could be other physical factors involved here.
2) I remember reading somewhere on this forum about some one talking about a book that was the best book written on how to stop smoking and there had been many many people who swear by it after they had tried everything. I believe it was called something like "The Easiest Way to Quit Smoking" or "A Simple Way to Stop Smoking" or something like that. If there is anybody out there that knows the book I'm talking about, I would greatly, greatly appreciate them passing on the information to me.
Rzz
Rzz,
Great to hear from you and an excellent post. I agree about Peyronies Disease getting blamed too often for ED. Peyronies Disease most frequently strikes men at the age when ED most frequently strikes men, so many men with both assume they are connected and look no further. I am glad you did and that you reported back with some good information.
Also there are a few very old posts on this forum from the early days before switching to smf that briefly discuss a Peyronies Disease/smoking connection. One way or the other, as you know, the Doc's advice will help way more than just Peyronies Disease. Sometimes we get caught up in dwelling exclusively on our penis. We forget there are actually more serious issue. If the ole ticker stops, erections are almost impossible.
I think you have enough drive and goal setting to do this, especially since you now appreciate what is at stake. I smoked at least 2 packs per day but only from my mid teens to about 20. During that time I had a few failed attempts to quit. Once I quit for almost 3 months and was drinking and smoked a cigarette to see what it would be like. That's all it took to get me drag me back to smoking. I have read and experienced that tapering off is almost a doomed way of quitting and causes many failures. One cigarette keeps the addiction alive. Cold-turkey has the physical addiction gone within 10 days. The psychological/situational urge lasts much longer.
I wish you luck in setting a date and never looking back. Keep us posted.
Inspirational Thought for the day: A good erection is way more satisfying than a cigarette! ;)
A link I found from a search of our forum:
http://thescooponsmoking.org/xhtml/effects/peyroniesDisease.php
RZZ,
I was heavy smoker almost 2 packs a day for 25 years. quit 2 years ago, Its easier to quit than you think, for one thing, stop telling yourself its very difficult, instead tell yourself its easy. Your mind obeys your commands.
2nd thing, ask your Doctor for a prescription for a nictoine inhaler, this is just like a cigarette but it only contains nictoine and it fullfills the oral gratification that us smokers are also addicted to., but lacks the other poisons that cigs have. You will need a prescription, DR will gladly give you one.
3rd thing -- quit the nictoine inhaler -- as it is addictive also, but its much less addictive than smoking, by the way your erections will be much stronger the day you start the nicotine inhaler and stop smoking, and once realizing that and seeing the difference, you may lose all desire to smoke, I did...(in my mind I associated smoking with weak erections) and it motivated me to quit, I will never smoke again.
When you quit smoking the body starts heaing itself in 20 minutes from your last cigarette.
It the best thing you could possibly do for yourself...
Best,
Steven
I was diagnosed when I was just 18, and barely get half an erection, I'm 29 now. However, I've started taking Ginko Biloba (herb in tablet form) 240mg a day and Ginseng, (Panax) 2000mg a day in teh hope that it will help.
I was wondering if anyone else had tried this with success.
8 months ago I tried this for a period of about two months and did notice a differece, however, I lost my job and stopped buying the herbs.
They are available in any health store and aren't actually expensice, about £8 for each.
Anyways, it would be good to know if anyone ahs tried anything like this.
Thanks
Welcome Futile, and thanks for the post.
I know that Ginko Biloba is a blood thinner as is the case with Vitamin E, ginger, garlic, and many herbs. I do not know that this property alone makes it much good for erections. There are some other choices on this thread that would be my first choices. Some are prescription, some are over the counter.
I have taken ginko at times over the years and never noticed an impact on erections. I have noticed a direct impact from some of the others.
Good to have you on the forum
Futile,
Try acetyl l carnitinine (1000 mg) before sleep, it can help with nocturnal erections. If you can have nocturnal erections, my Doc says you can have normal erections, and if that is the case, then your ED might be mental. also try (l arginine 500 mg or more) you're young so it may be just mental. Have you told your Doc, you should...
Steven
Thanks for the advice. I've been taking the Panax ginseng, 3000mg a day, for a week, along with the Ginko 240mg and although it's early days I woke yesterday with a pretty good erection. Could be just a one off. Could be psychological.
Ginseng is meant to take eight weeks, I read some pretty good trials in using Ginseng, but I'll keep you all posted as to whether it's any good or not.
I take the ginko and ginseng as well. It worked o.k for me. I added yohimbine and that seems to work much better. I can't really see a diff when erect. I can however see a huge difference when flacid.
Just thought I'd keep everyone up to date. Still taking the high doses of ginko and ginseng together and on more than a few occasions I've woken with a a great morning erection. The best for years. So far, the rest of the day, has seen a slight improvement. Still six weeks of the recommenede eight to go though. Also, the ginseng seems to give me more energy during the day, and I feel mentally, at least slight,y more alert, and my desire for sex seems to be a bit higher to.
I was just wondering if when you took it what dose you took.
And if the ginseng was pure root.
Here's a twist on the ED discussion. I can obtain and maintain a usable erection, (Cialis is a nice boost when feeling insecure) but over the last 2 months or so, it has become virtually impossible to achieve an orgasm. The loss of overall sensation is severe and a "build up" to release just never happens. This is true whether I am having active sex or while masturbating. After a time, it just becomes to exhausting to continue and the erection is lost.
Since my plaque mass covers such a large portion of my penis, I am wondering if that may be the cause? Is it psychological? Or has Peyronies Disease damaged the nerve endings in my penis?
Frustrating to say the least.
Steve,
Are you taking any other meds for depression etc?
How many of you have seen improvement in your ED from the initial onset of the ED to your current state?
Quote from: Hawk on December 22, 2005, 10:06:01 PM
Steve,
Are you taking any other meds for depression etc?
No other meds on board, Hawk. To be frank, I can maintain (with Cialis sometimes) my erection and perform sexually, as much as I can with my curvature, but no longer feel the erotic pleasure and build up to orgasm I have always enjoyed. Eventually, exhaustion takes over, the erection is finally lost and no orgasm or ejaculation
ever occurs. I am left feeling completely drained, but in no way satisfied.
The overall sensitivity of my penis seems to be gone. I can only attribute this to my Peyronies Disease.
Quote from: roadblock on December 28, 2005, 01:09:58 AM
How many of you have seen improvement in your ED from the initial onset of the ED to your current state?
Hey there, me again :)
Yes I have seen much improvement since damaging my penis since age 11 by overmasturbating which eventually depleted my neurotransmitters like acetylcholine, serotonin, GABA and dopamine nervous function.
Along with extremely dangerous penile techniques/exercises, Alcohol damage which burned my insides which caused internal bleeding and also caused kidney and liver pain which totally depleted my whole sexual function from the inside to the outside.
Eventually all the penile mechanical damage lead to Peyronies Disease at age only 16.
Then during the late teen years ED hit me too big time.
Advice to any Ed sufferer.
Boost your neurotransmitters like acetylcholine, serotonin, GABA and dopamine nervous function. to rejuvenate your sexual function to help with ED like I have done.
How ?
Use l-tyrosine for dopamine, l-ariginine for NO, 5-htp for serotonin and choline for acetylcholine. Use pharmaceutical grade if possible as the quality is the best.
Advice for Peyronies Disease sufferer:
For mechanical damage I had to do a daily massage using a special cream and borage/Evening Primrose Oil to help with the damaged local tissues.
I had done this throughout several years but stopped now and again due to some depression.
Also due to my overdrinking only straight brandy since age 14 it had damaged my colon/liver/kidney/brains pretty bad. So I have done and still do a full body detoxification program from the stomach to the brain.
It has really helped me get my energy back to my life and also after doing colon cleansing I now dont experience stomach cramp/bloatiness/pain and I take in the full nutrients from the supplements/herbs I take.
I hope this helps someone out there who is struggling with ED+Peyronies Disease as it has really helped me through this tough journey since my early teens.
Cheers !
P.S Update on Peyronies Disease massage. I now add Apple Cider Vinigar(ACV organic)
into my daily penile massage and it seems to furthur soften the scars and helps to rejuvenate the penile nerves which has produced a much greater feeling when the penis is touched :)
Quote from: nick on October 12, 2005, 10:20:07 AM
I take the ginko and ginseng as well. It worked o.k for me. I added yohimbine and that seems to work much better. I can't really see a diff when erect. I can however see a huge difference when flacid.
Yes ! Yohimbe can expand the arteries in the sex organs, increase the blood flow into the spongy tissues in the genital area, and thus promote erection spontaneously which can rejuvenate near dead penile nerves/arteries/veins..
That is why Yohimbine has been an erectile drug for treatment of impotency, as approved by the FDA.
Please be very careful with Yohimbe though !!
How much do you take?You see at a low dose (below 300 mg), the relaxant effects induced by Yohimbe are positive for health and sex; at a high dose (over 600 mg at 1% Yohimbine), it can cause over-expansion of the smooth muscles, which can produce panic attack in the brain, heart and digestive tracts.
This happened to me before many times before finding out this info.
At night while trying to get to sleep I felt extreme chest tightness, sweating and high blood pressure.
Its side effects are temporary. When you stop overdosing your body, the symptoms will goes away. If the side effects occur, you get no erection
Hope this helps.
Cheers !
I was just wondering, in terms of Ed, to what extent everyone was affected. In my own situation i get erect so that my penis is erect about half way. But the head is always soft.
THe big problem can be maintaining an erection. I'm sure everyone has been over this time and time again but I was just wondering.
Just to give you one personal point of information. I've had Peyronies Disease for over six years. The top of the shaft is now completely covered with plaque from the glans to the groin area. Loss of length is 2", girth about 1/3 less, and between an 80 to 90 degree bend. I have never had any problem with ED including nightly nocturnal erections. They are ugly to say the least, but still very solid.
This is perhaps the exception rather than the rule, but there is no rule of thumb with Peyronies Disease. I'm sure good blood flow is necessary to keep tissue healthy, but it has not helped or prevented my disease.
Larry
furtil66 - I'm significantly bent (although not as bent as Larry) but the plumbing still seems to work ok. I think when Peyronies Disease first hit me I went through a period where it seemed not to. Some of that may have been due to inflammation, and also just the shock of this thing hitting you like a brick. In time some of the shock wears off.
Hope that helps.
Hi,
I am new to the forum, and I think the support and information you provide is great and much appreciated.
I have being dealing with Peyronies Disease for the last 3 years and with ED for the last 18 month. Viagra is not working for me as it used to do and I was wondering if anyone here has used Levitra, and if it is true you don't get the blue tinge vision
gvr
gvr,
Thanks for the words of support. It is good to have you as part of the active conversation.
I was left with Total ED immediately after prostate cancer surgery. Since then, I have slowly progressed but I am still totally dependent on ED drugs for a daytime erection. I have tried all three, Viagra, Levitra, and Cialis.
Viagra gave me a bit of a blue haze the first time I ever took it but it never returned. It gave me a bit of a flush over my face at 2 random times out of 25 tablets. It usually gives me a somewhat stuffy nose. All these are known side effects but were not a big issue to me. One time I had a headache before taking Viagra and the Viagra seemed to make it worse. I only take Viagra if I have gone at least 6 hours without eating.
Levetra has given me a stuffy nose. It has the advantage that food, especially fats that are in most foods do not block its effectiveness like they do Viagra. Its overall effectiveness is about the same as Viagra for me.
Cialis has one huge draw back for me. About 3 days after I take it, I get a significant nagging backache for about a day. The pain is over the kidney area and is a listed side effect that some experience. I am not sure of the exact cause. I used Cialis early on for a few tries but gave it up. During that period, it worked no better than the other two. Now that I have recovered a bit maybe it would work better but the back ache rules it out for me. I does last for 36 hours as opposed to 3 hours for the other two.
Erection results between the three are indistinguishable for me but others may be different. A decent family doctor should give you a few samples of Cialis and Levetra. Mine gave me 6 ($60 dollars worth) and said "here, this should last you through the weekend.
I've only tried Viagra, and these were the freebies given to me by the doctor or his nurse. I have to say, it works like a charm. This doesn't agree with what's promised by the literature but I'm usually 'up' within a matter of minutes, and it definitely helps make up for the indentation/hourglass. It sort of has a lasting effect; after I've gone to sleep I notice myself waking up semierect or erect, all night long and into the next morning. I don't get a blue haze or a headache, but I have experienced some 'flushing' in my face during intercourse.
Hi everyone...was on a post last night which mentioned the website of www.lionnutrition.com which sells liquid viagra and others. I request that some of you view this site and give your opinion...is it possible a company can break this medication down and sell it in liquid form? Thanks....
Cialis is my "drug" of choice. It has been dependable and less time sensitive than Viagra for sexual activity. I have had few/minor problems or side effects but got most of the described ones with Viagra. I only wish Cialis or Viagra had the power to overcome my hour glass and curve when erect. But at least, a dependable erection is achieved.
I was wondering if anyone from the UK could tell me how they got hold of viagra.
Since it's not available on the NHS do you have to go to a private doctor or can you just go to your regular doctor and then wait for an appointment to the hospital to see a speicialist.
You go to your own NHS GP. If he's willing to prescribe it, he will write a private prescription. You take this to the chemist and pay a commercial rate.
Youngpain,
I read your post under "Urologists....." where you said
QuoteHe placed me on Pentox twice a day, and Cialis once every two days to increase nightly erections which he said would help with keeping the plaque down
If you have a chance to discuss this with him, I would be interested in asking him about 25mg trazadone (1/2 of a 50 mg tablet)per night. It cost 1.5 cents and my experience (and that of others) is that it works as good for nocturnal erections as anything including Viagra, Cialis, or Levitra with none of the side effects of those drugs. It is 1/2 to 1/4 the usual prescribed dose for sleep problems and less than 1/4 to 1/16 of the dose prescribed for depression. The only difference that I can tell if I stop taking it for a couple days is the night-time erections.
Hello everyone...I would greatly appreciate some advice on the following: As I have stated before on this forum, I am curently 34 years of age and have been impotent since the age of 18. It is noted, that I went through a normal stage of puberty and got erections all the time, which included strong nighttime erections. At the age of 18, for some unknown reason, I became impotent, however, I could still attain strong erections when I masterbatedwith strong erections, but never upon wakening in the morning or when attempting sex with a female. Years went by...still could attain erections when masterbating, but none with a female. Waited and waited until viagra came along...I was cured...felt like a normal man again. However, one night when masterbating, I attained a very strong erection without viagra, and a very distorted penis appeared with a dent on top of the shaft. I have never been able to obtain an erection again, even if masterbating - potency is gone. This was 3 years ago and am being treated for peyronie's disease, and have been for the last 3 years, however, only a very small peyronie's area was found - it can not be felt with the hand - it is only seen with ultrasound - V injections are not an option for the area being so small, the uro feels it will not help. Nothing worked...the uro mentioned trimix - it worked awesome! This trimix worked wonderfully each and every time, but after 3 months, it not longer gave me an erection...just a semi-response and a bigger flacid penis for about 2 days. My optimal dosage which worked great was .05 to .07. I then increased it to 1cc and still no usable erection. Today, I even tried 75mg. of viagra and 1.5cc's of trimix and STILL no usable erection. What's going on here?? I am so confused! Everywhere I read on the internet, it seems as if everyone responds well to trimix! Do men sometimes use more than 1.5cc? The medication was not expired and was refrigerated. Can someone please give some advice on what I might be doing wrong? I follow all directions on how to inject; however, I have read where most men insert the needle in the penis, and then push hard to gurantee it gets to the right tissue...I dont usually push very hard after I insert the needle...I figure since it does hurt, it is at its right depth. The uro states I am a good candidate for penile ligation surgery...but wanted me to try these very non-invasive medications. Regarding penile ligation surgery, I have read this may not be a long-term cure, but I figure if it works well for 5 years and symptoms of leaking appears, my opinion is that the leak will not be as bad as now, therefore would respond very well to the oral and injectible medications again. And, if I am hearing correctly either gene therapy and/or regrowing of smooth muscle for the penis will "possibly" start being offered to the public in about that time frame. Any thoughts for my justification for having the ligation surgery, or would you keep trying higher doses of trimix? Thanks.
Will,
I would recomend Ionotophoresis and the VED, if you read the section on VED's youll find much good information. For some cases the VED can straighten the penis out and help to cure ED. Also there have been some promising studies done on the Iontophoresis, as it is proven to drive verapamil into the target tissue. And on another note I know that most people on this forum question topical verapamil, however I have been using it and I can tell it definately increases blood flow while in the flaccid state, this I believe can't be a bad thing. I wouldn't go to surgery just yet, your going to lose some length, and possible rigidity in your erections depending on the surgery choice you make. Also you may lose sensetivity, as anytime they cut into your penis your going to damage some nerves. Some will regrow but it will never be the same, and this in turn could lead to future Erectile Function. The IONO treatment is not cheapt but definately worth a try in my opinion. The medical studies back it up. You just need a prescription and you can get the machine and the liquid medications from www.physion.com- I'm not trying to advertise for them just trying to direct you without searches and hassles. Old Man has a great deal of knowledge dealing with the VED treatment as well. In my opinion would should exhaust all possible options before attempting surgery.
ComeBackid
Dear Will,
Your past medical history of having been able to acheive erections when masturbating, but not with women, suggests that - at that point - there was an emotional component. To whatever extent that such a psychologic component can still be present, it is probably worth investigating further.
FWIW, I think almost ALL of us could benefit from psychological counseling at some point - I know that I certainly have. Having a "physiological reason" for ED does not mean that the mind cannot kick in and make it worse. Given the territory we are talking about, not having a psychologic component to ED would be the exception.
The current failure to respond to therapy that should make it all work is very confusing, and suggests a vascular problem. You have detailed so much, it is hard to imagine that you have not looked into this completely, but be sure that blood flow is evaluated. I would also see if you have nocturnal erections as well.
It sounds like part of the problem is that you have a minor Peyronies Disease related deformity (or at least a small lesion), but without erections, how can you even tell if it is better, worse or unchanged? But I do not believe that it is likely that Peyronies Disease is causing the worsening of your erectile function.
I too would be quite leery of taking a surgical option yet.
Tim
Will,
First, I will probably move these posts to the "Erectile Dysfunction" topic since that is primarily what they deal with.
It seems to me that you are saying that ED has always been a problem and Peyronies Disease is secondary. The only advice I can give is to read every word of our ED topic. I have a pretty good knowledge of ED from first hand experience after my radical prostatectomy. If you ever inject, be very gentle, meaning steady hand, no tilting of the syringe after entry, and above all, apply pressure to the injection site for a full 10 minutes after the injection. If you have a wife or steady, understanding partner, I recommend a VED for erection and intercourse instead of injections. I also suggest you ask your doctor to try trazodone in very low doses (see earlier posts in this topic) to see if it contributes to night time erections.
Finally, nocturnal erections are different than erections from physical or psychological stimulation and are not fully understood. It used to be thought that if you got night-time erections that it meant day-time erections were possible unless there were some underlying psychological triggers that interfere. That is now being considered to be inaccurate.
All day-time erections do use the same nerve pathways regardless of how they are achieved (psychological stimulation, masturbation, foreplay). If you could get an erection from masturbation but not with a female partner there could be no strictly physical reason to explain that. Keep in mind that adrenalin is a very powerful anti-erection agent. Adrenalin is released due to fear, stress, and anxiety. At the same time those same emotions take your focus off of the sexually stimulating psychological aspects that help cause an erection.
I would not consider surgery until I exhausted every psychological, pharmaceutical, and divice (VED) option available with a sexual medicine MD and a psychologist. Also, you don't mention if you are on any meds that could contribute to this problem,
Thanks very much for the valuable advice ComeBackid, Tim, and Hawk - your sincere information has triggered me to think deeper with this issue, and also to get a second opinion before electing for surgery. One question about the ved...I have been using the soma correct for 1 year now...the bottom half of my penis when erect is fine...it is the distal end that is narrowing - what is your opinion in just using the pump on the distal end (not against the abdomen since the bottom half is fine) and just pump that area up? Also, as of recent, my uro came to the conclusion my Peyronies Disease orginated from being catherized for a long period of time. I forgot to ask him this, and I have never seen any information in reference to where the scar tissue is from peyronie's disease if from a catherator? Would the scar tissue just be located in the ureatha? I believe there is a smaller area of corpus spongiosum, which has a small role in absorbing blood for erection, and to, the ureatha goes through this area. Is it possible, that since my uro can barely find a peyronie's lesion, could the majority of the lesions be in the ureatha area?
Thanks.
If your plaque is in the spongiosum, you would no doubt have a downward curve as I had. In response to your question about only using the VED on the distal half, I doubt that you could get a seal.
Have you ever used the large cylinder? Can you remove the VED and milk blood into the distal half?
Will,
I think that there would be no benefit to applying a vacuum to only part of your erection, and it would not be easy to do anyway. I agree with Hawks comments.
It sounds like you may have a generalized fibrotic process, without a specific area of plaque. That is how it is for me - I have never had a hard induration or nodule that could be palpated. That suggests that something like iontophoresis of verapamil (IF it could penetrate to the area of fibrotic change) would be better than "targetted" therapy with a needle.
One thing that emerges from my reading of men's experience here is that vascular supply or blood flow is an issue frequently. It may be reduced because of stress and adrenaline and fear reactions - but more often it seems to be impaired a bit.
One thing that many very good urologists do is to determine the vasular function of the arteries and veins, to see if there might be a vascular basis of the ED component of Peyronies Disease.
It makes me think that it would be VERY NICE, if the urologic ommunity could come up with a consensus on how to *evaluate* Peyronies Disease - what studies are to be done, and how, and when. In my own medical community (lung disease) we are constantly trying to see what works best, and to simultaneously strive to USE the best practices for our patients - across the board. This may be irrelevant, but I think many of you would find this article interesting. It is about how doctors decide what to do, and how patients find out how "good" their doctors are. It relates to my own area, but you may find it stimulating to what could be done in this field.
I may just have to do something about this myself (s)...
Tim
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?041206fa_fact
Maybe someone can comment on this.
I have a prescription sitting here in front of me for viagra, does this act in the same way as cialis, it seems like cialis lasts for a long time while viagra you still need to get stimulation for it to work. Do these two drugs basically work in the same way?
ComeBackid
I have taken prescriptions of all 3;Levitra, Cialis, Viagra. Their mechanisms of action are very similar. I see absolutely no discernible difference in the ability to produce an erection. All three require physical or psychological stimulation to produce an erection even in a normal healthy male. I took all 3 at maximum dosage.
Cialis has a much longer half-life than the other two so it is on-board and ready when you are, over a longer period. One of the listed side effect for Cialis is a delayed onset back ache that can occur days after taking the drug. I always got these in the lower back and they are no fun. I have no clue what the direct cause is but due to the area, I wonder if it involves the kidneys in some way. If it made the difference between sex and no sex I would endure them but not week in and week out. I am sure many people do not get these or the drug would be a flop.
Levitra Much like Viagra from a patient stand point. Half-life is the same as Viagra as is the manner and ability of producing an erection. The one advantage is that it is less effected by eating a couple hours before taking the pill.
Viagra - One difference that makes Viagra a draw back is that any dietary fat interferes with absorption so it is best to be fasting for 4-6 hours before taking. If you can find a zero fat snack, that is OK. I had a few more side effects with Viagra than Levitra but these were minimal (2 head aches, 1 blue haze vision out of dozens of doses).
Finally, They all tend to cause a bit of a stuffy nose (for me). This is caused by increased blood flow to the membranes. None of these caused any side effects in minimal doses such as 1/4 of a Viagra every night.
The most important thing that I can offer, but which others seem to show little interest in. For less than 2 cents a day, half of a 50mg (smallest tablet) Trazodone at night before bed will cause solid nocturnal erections increasing blood flow all through the night. It is absorbed better if taken with food. This is only a fourth to a half of what is prescribed for sleep. I have zero side effect from it and it is non-habit forming at this tiny dose. I often skip a night or two and sleep soundly, only with no erections. This is also a case in which more is not better. The effect seems as strong or stronger at 25 mg than at 50mg. Nocturnal erections are not as well understood as once thought. They seem to not be dependent on the same nerve pathways as stimulated erections so I am not sure trazodone impacts a daytime stimulated erection and I am also unsure of how trazodone works to cause erections. But it works very well.
I have known of 3 people that tried this and all 3 got the same positive effect. It is also a listed side effect of trazodone. If you have a doctor that will work with you, discuss this with him. It was the best tip I ever got off of a forum.
Finally, Adrenalin, sudafed, and neosynephrine bind to adrenalin receptor cells and kill erections. They also unstuff your nose, just the opposite of ED drugs. Performance anxiety kills erections both by taking your mind off the psychological aspects of sex and by producing adrenalin which is a certain erection killer.
Hawk,
When you took these, does it make your erections more firm and solid? Or does it just give you the ability to achieve an erection from sexual stimulation like a normal one that you would have? I don't think these drugs could make peyronies worse as your getting erections. Perhaps they could help stop progression or help cure peyronies to some extent. It would be good for the doctors to do more research in this area.
ComeBackid
Quote from: pudder135 on May 22, 2006, 06:14:21 PM
Hawk,
When you took these, does it make your erections more firm and solid? Or does it just give you the ability to achieve an erection from sexual stimulation like a normal one that you would have?
If by "these" you mean Viagra etc, they will enhance the firmness of your erections assuming you don't already get diamond cutters.
If you mean trazodone, it generates nocturnal erections far superior to any stimulated day time erection with the aid of Viagra. Keep in mind I sustained nerve damage from a radical prostatectomy but others have had similar experiences.
Hey guys, I feel bad asking questions after being off board for awhile. Can I beg forgiveness?
Okay, here goes. I have a few ED questions for anyone who has experience with ED medication, VEDs, or both. Any assistance is greatly appreciated:
I've noticed recently again that my erections are more like on a 7.5 scale out of 10 (10 being hardest), where 10 used to be the norm. Whether this is due to Peyronies Disease or not, I cannot tell, but I must assume it is. As such, I've been wondering about next steps. Assuming my doc would go either route, I'm wondering:
1) Does anyone have experience with VEDs AND medication, who can speak to which one might be better to improve specifically the firmness of an erection?
2) Also, and forgive my ignorance here, but do VEDs and/or medication create any sort of "reliance" on them? By that, I mean I can get an erection now generally without a problem. The issue is the firmness, or lack thereof. However, if I were to go on medication (Viagra, etc), or to use a VED, would this in any way diminish my ability to get an erection without using either medication or a VED? Like, would I be "training" myself so that I would need these to get an erection?
Any insight is greatly appreciated, as always. And have a great long weekend everybody.
dcaptain
Hawk, I just finished reading your posts. Thank you for sharing them. My experience is similar. I am 10 months post op and am getting night time erections to some degree. I also get some response to Viagra, Levitra, and probably Cialis. I tried Cialis to soon after surgery to tell. Viagra gives me the blues (vision) and a flushed face. I get the stuffy nose with Levitra which often gives me a terrible sinus headache that lasts all day. I use a VED to obtain a daytime erection. My urologist prescribed it to prevent post op shinkage. I'm not sure if the constriction bands exacerbated the Peyronies Disease.
I am very interested in the Trazodone 25 mg. Is it a common treatment for ED? I plan to talk to my urologist about it during the next visit. Also, if you don't mind me asking, how long since your RPP? Some of the things you said are giving me hope. Thanks for including this topic.
Guys,
I've read online that if you have peyronies disease you should not use viagra, has anyone else encountered this?
Hawk-I also found this
Who should NOT use injection therapy?
Some conditions rule out the use of injection therapy.
Allergy to alprostadil.
Abnormally formed penis.
Peyronie's disease or penis angulation.
Carvernosal fibrosis.
Diseases that might result in prolonged erection, such as sickle cell anemia
You may be quite right that your injections made your condition worse I'm puzzled that the leading urologist in the world in dealing with peyronies disease did not know this?
Anyone know much information on Trazodone?
ComeBackid
In reading recommendations for or against drugs, it is important to understand the rationale behind them.
Viagra is not recommended routinely for those illnesses, primarily because those conditions fall into the category of processes that require thoughtfulness before treating. In other words, Viagra is not a known treatment for Peyronies Disease, so it should not be used for such a cause of ED without first investigating other issues.
That is not to say that Viagra might not be of value for some people - it is the routine (and perhaps mindless) use of drugs that the warnings aim to prevent. And investigational use of Viagra is completely different - it is the use of a drug (not routinely recommended) because it *may* be of help to an individual. All such drug warnings have to be taken in context.
Tim
Quote from: pudder135 on June 01, 2006, 04:38:36 AM
Hawk......
You may be quite right that your injections made your condition worse I'm puzzled that the leading urologist in the world in dealing with peyronies disease did not know this?
ComeBackid, Injections did not make my Peyronie's Disease worse, I think the evidence is clear that bimix injections caused my Peyronies Disease. This is not just a cause/effect case of: I injected; I got Peyronies Disease.
The initial site of the Peyronies Disease, the timing, studies and warnings about papaverine causing fibrosis in a greater number of patients than other injectable ED drugs, the theory about micro-trauma, all point to the injections as the cause.
I don't know that I would refer to my doctor as the leading Peyronie's Disease doctor in the world but he is one of the very well known Peyronies Disease doctors. Also, I do not think it is a matter of him not knowing. When I mentioned it and offered him a printout of a study on the topic, he showed no interest in the printout and stated there is no evidence associating penile injections with Peyronie's Disease. I could have more easily accepted the phrase, "no proof", but to suggest there is not even any evidence is a rather strong statement considering that I was not given any evidence or facts to counter the study in my hand, or to counter the many pharmaceutical warnings. These are in fact evidence.
Also see 2nd paragraph under "papaverine" in a paper by Tom Lue http://www.cmj.org/Periodical/PaperList.asp?id=LW8235
Quote from: Tom LueThe fibrotic change may be due to tunical hematomas at the injection site followed by clot reabsorption and fibrosis. Fibrosis also appears to be dose-dependent and cumulative, although significant fibrosis after only a few injections has been reported. The natural course of the fibrosis is unpredictable, with some cases resolving several months after discontinuation of injection therapy, and others persisting.
What is your question about Trazodone?
Tim:
You are 100% right about individuals using the current popular ED drugs. Since they can now be bought overseas off the Internet at cheaper prices than in the USA, they are being abused by many who do not research the contraindication portions of the patient brochure to learn of adverse side effects.
The ED drugs may provide some increase in blood flow to the penile chambers, but it should be done only in individuals healthy enough overall to take such drugs. The risk is not really worth it.
Since Viagra, Cialis and Levitra lowers blood pressure significantly, patients with heart problems should not take them, etc. Any and all heart patients especially should not experiment with them. Having have a triple bypass done, I know first hand about the dangers of meds that affect heart conditions.
Thanks for your valuable input to this forum. That is the kind of support we need from the medical community to help those in need.
Regards, Old Man
I found several references to hMaxi-K. It claims to work for up to 6 months. Google search provides many quality hits. Looks promising.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/491836
Link added by Hawk
Here is another link to an article about new drugs for ED including the gene therapy which will last up to 6 months :) :).
http://webcenter.health.webmd.netscape.com/content/article/122/114814.htm
This is a copy of the first few paragraphs. However, the whole two page article is worth reading.
New ED Drugs on Horizon
Faster Acting, Longer Lasting Treatments for Erectile Dysfunction By Daniel DeNoon
WebMD Medical News Reviewed By Louise Chang, MD
on Wednesday, May 24, 2006
More From WebMD
Is Hypertension Affecting Your Sex Life?
ED: Warning Sign of Early Artery Disease?
Erectile Dysfunction: A Woman's Point of View
May 24, 2006 -- New treatments for erectile dysfunctionerectile dysfunction are on the way. One works fast. One lasts long. And another promises to be the next best thing to a cure.
The new drugs aren't here yet. They don't even have official brand names. But they promise to give men with erectile dysfunction even more options than they now get from Viagra, Cialis, and Levitra.
"We have a chance to glimpse the future of treatment in sexual dysfunction," says James Barada, MD, director of the Center for Sexual Health in Albany, N.Y. Barada moderated a news conference in which researchers discussed new findings reported at this week's annual meeting of the American Urological Association in Atlanta.
Nearly a Cure for ED?
Does anyone know anything about caverjet? I need to have this injected into my penis one time. Will one injection hurt my penis or cause any damage? Is there anyway to give me an erection without giving me an injection?
ComeBackid
Here is a link to there site.
http://www.caverject.com/
Hope this helps.
I'm looking to see if anyone knows the name of the little pill you put in your urethra at the end of your penis where you pee at and this gives you an erection. I'm trying to find a way to give myself an instant erection without having to inject, as I believe injecting will make peyronies worse or cause more plaque. I'm trying to find out the name of this pill and can't do so, anyone know?
ComeBackid
The med is alprostadil. The brand is MUSE. Here is the link to WebMD's MUSE info page.
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/drug-77981-Alprostadil+Urth.aspx?drugid=77981&drugname=Alprostadil+Urth
ComeBackid,
I think you may find muse to be unreliable but it may work. As one that stuck about 70 needles in my penis I would not worry too much about one administered by a nurse (or doctor). If you do it, follow the advice to apply direct pressure to the injection site for 10 minutes to prevent any bleeding and I would take nothing that would thin my blood for several days prior to the injection.
They will inject in the base 1/3 of the penis in a i to 3 oclock position on the right or a 9 to 11 oclock on the left avoiding any visible vein. If you are aware of any scar tissue, direct them away from it.
You will find the injection to be very painless compared to an injection elsewhere on the body.
Hawk,
I thought those injections is what gave you plaque nodules and gave you peyronies, I just don't want to get more plaque, I only need to do one injection, thats it, seems like this shouldn't give someone plaque, however I have plaque surrounding my whole corpus cavernosum and can't inject into the plaque itself.
ComeBackid
Quote from: pudder135 on June 20, 2006, 10:50:50 PM
Hawk,
I thought those injections is what gave you plaque nodules and gave you peyronies.... I have plaque surrounding my whole corpus cavernosum and can't inject into the plaque itself.
Injections did give me Peyronies Disease but that was 75 injections. Personally I would not be too hyper about one injection but I do think injecting into scar tissue is a significant concern.
Hawk,
I only need to do one injection in front of the doctor, my proposal or idea was to simply use the suppasatory to give me the erection, instead of injecting the medicine in.
ComeBackid
Hawk,
The thing I can't figure out with trazodone is the fact that its in the class of anti depressants, which decrease sex drive and daytime erections. However I do realize that taking it at the 25 mg dosage level would not have this effect but it seems like it should still kill erection a little. But as you have reported it gives nightime erections. Was this medication made aware to you by Dr. Mulhall? Did he say it will give you nightime erections, or did you discover it on your own?
ComeBackid
One of the more knowledgeable people I ever knew on the forums clued me in on this. Priapism (erection that lasts for hours and is a mediacal emergency) is a listed possible side-effect of a full dose of this drug. While I think priapism is rare, 3 out of three people I know have gotten great results with 1/2 of a 50mg trazodone with food before bed. There are also clinical studies combining trazodone and yohimbe (sp). My family doctor prescribed upon hearing my explanation of why I wanted to try it. It is not an unknown issue and it is the cheapest drug I have ever heard of for any ailment.
PS: not all antidepressants cause sexual dysfunction. Cymbalta has a very low risk of sexual side effects and Welbutrin has been blamed in court for cause spontaneous random orasms in women.
;)
QuoteWelbutrin has been blamed in court for causing spontaneous random orgasms in women.
Would that be a bad thing? I took Welbutrin to quit smoking. Might have the opposite effect on women :Q
Was it good for you?
Today, for the first time since prostate surgery, I took Viagra and it worked ( about 75% erection). Thats the good news. The bad news is I got an idea of how bad and painful the Peyronies Disease is.
I am keeping a positive attitude, though. I was not sure if I would ever get any kind of erection without a VED. Now we can hope and pray for the day Peyronies Disease can be treated with some success. It can happen!
One more thought. I am thinking the supplements I am taking for Peyronies Disease may be helping the ED. Hey, it couldn't hoit.
I talked with my doctor today about my loss of daytime erections since taking Lexapro. He doesn't think taking testosterone would be a good idea for me because it can have side effects like enlarging a mans breasts and increased hair growth, and the effects only occur while your on the medicine. He told me that Lexapro effects seratonin, and that is probably what effected my lack of erections. However, now hes telling me I'm probably just losing erections cause I'm getting older (22). I don't know if I buy this because I used to get a lot of daytime spontaneous erections before taking Lexapro. He said I could try Wellbutren, which raises yoru dopamine levels and actually increases sex drive and erections, but I'm going to wait on that.
Anyone with any comments on this? Perhaps lack of daytime erections doesn't have any effect on peyronies disease and it will get worse if you have erections or not.
ComeBackid
ComeBackid,,,,i've been on testosterone now for about 7 yrs and my breast's have not gotten larger,,thats BS......But i have gotten a lot more body hair, and thats what my wife has always wanted,ha!....And my daytime erections never went down until i was 45,,,I think its your meds that is effecting that.
And i don't believe that having an erection is going to make your peyronies any worse,,,if anything you need the erections to help stretch the plaque and thats what a VED helps do for you,,,,stretch....
kimo
Kimo,
I didn't say erections would make the plaque worse, I think not having them makes the plaque worse or encourages the plaque to contract more.
Thanks for the reply though on testosterone. I'm already hairy and don't need body hair dude. I may get blood work done to see what my testosterone is at. The lexapro I took did things with my seratonin uptake abilities, and so my phsyciatrist doesn't think testosterone will even do much for my erections. My phsyciatrist was pale and losing his hair from his KIMO therapy for bladder cancer. He had a successful removal of his bladder but flatout looked bad. Now hes recovering, he said he wouldn't even trade the cancer for peyronies after I asked him about it.
ComeBackid
I started back on Welbutrin a month ago. My ED is getting better. You can't conclude the Welbutrin is helping. But, it hasn't hurt, either :).
ComeBackid,
I may not be a doctor but I have some very strong opinions on this topic.
For a doctor to tell a 22 year old guy he is loosing erections because he is getting older, is beyond stupidity. If it were not so sad it would be hilarious. I saw no slight loss of daytime erections between 15 and 40 and had regular (but less) daytime erections at 52 just prior to prostate surgery. While this may be a bit more than normal, I am positive that any 22 year old male not having any day time erections is a symptom that something is wrong. It could be medication, nerve injury, Peyronies Disease, diabetes, depression, stress, hormone imbalance, or several other things, but it certainly is not age related.
Foot note on testosterone: Forget all the other side effects of testosterone. Prostate cancer is the most common cancer in men and far more common than breast cancer in women. There is no doubt that many men on this forum have prostate cancer in some quantity that is either non-aggressive or very aggressive and they do not even know it. Some statistic indicate that before a man dies there is a 50% chance he will have prostate cancer. Much of this is low grade and it is further slowed down by the fact that he fortunately develops it at an age when his testosterone has naturally dropped. Testosterone is like gasoline to prostate cancer. Prostate cancer is testosterone fed. For anyone (especially over 40) to take testosterone without a clear confirmation of low testosterone levels and a clear and very regular prostate evaluation is like playing Russian Roulette. Even then I would have a base level PSA check and recheck my PSA every 6 months. I would not be looking for a high PSA reading, I would be looking for any significant rise even at a low reading (for example: from 1.5 to 2.1 in 6 months). If another quick test confirmed this rise I would be flushing testosterone. I would also be having a prostate exam by someone that knew what they were feeling for. I have no interest in being a hairy guy laying in a bed with a lid.
Thanks for the time on the soap box. ;)
At the age of 56, quite a few years ago, my father went to the doctor with severe back pains. After several visits, over a period of a few months, the doctor told my dad he was getting old and it was normal to have pain . My father died of colorectal cancer within a year.
Age, itself is not a disease and has no symptoms. If a doctor blames a condition on age, start looking for another opinion.
Having said that, I recognize the correlation between age, certain physiological events and the likelihood of developing certain diseases or conditions. For example, many men lose hair as they get older. Age, however, is not the cause. If that were true, all adult males would be bald. Apply that logic to ED.
Note to all from a guy who has been there and done that!
I WANT TO ECHO THE STATEMENTS BY HAWK'S POST BELOW (CAPS FOR EMPHASIS).
WHEN A DOCTOR PRESCRIBES TESTOSTERONE FOR HELPING WITH ED, THE PATIENT SURELY SHOULD BE GETTING A PSA LEVEL CHECK AT LEAST EVERY 6 MONTHS. FAILURE TO DO IS WHAT HAWK SAYS --PLAYING WITH FIRE!
MY PSA LEVEL ROSE VERY RAPIDLY FROM ONE YEARLY PSA TO THE NEXT BY DOUBLING ITSELF. A DIGITAL RECTAL EXAM REVEALED TUMORS IN MY PROSTATE, AND AN ULTRASOUND CONFIRMED THIS, THEN THE BIOPSY CONFIRMED PROSTATE CANCER OF AN AGRESSIVE FORM.
MY TESTOSTERONE LEVELS HAD ALWAYS BEEN HIGH AND MY URO STATED THAT ALTHOUGH HE HAD NO CLINICAL PROOF, THE CANCER RESULTED FROM THOSE HIGH LEVELS.
SO, BOTTOM LINE, BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL ABOUT USING TESTOSTERONE AFTER THE AGE OF 40 LIKE HAWK SAYS. IT CAN BE VERY DANGEROUS TO YOUR HEALTH!
BEST REGARDS TO ALL, OLD MAN
My daytime erections vanished rapidly after taking lexapro, and it would take me forever to reach orgasm. Most of this went away after Ig ot off it, but the erections didn't come back like they normally were before the medicine. In april when my peyronies acted up again, I lost all daytime erections, I think the combination of both of these effects is causing the problem. I may try wellabutren in the future , but for now I'm sticking to some treatments and more treatments I have lined up next.
ComeBackid
Hi Gents,
I thought that I would interject here. I feel that the link between testosterone and prostate cancer is false. Think about it, most men contract the disease late in life when there test levels are very low. If raging high levels of test were the culprit then pc would be epidemic amongst 18-19 year old boys, but it isn't. Rather, I believe that the true culprit is excess ESTROGEN which increases exponetially as a man ages.
I have started my own androgen therapy to help combat my Peyronies Disease. I am only one week in and I alraedy have seen a big incraese in energy, libido and better erections and incresed bloodflow to little Elvis! ;D
Cheers.
SoxFan,
Good to see you again.
I appreciate your remarks and your intent.
For brevity, and because this is not a general men's health or prostate cancer forum, I won't debate the pros and cons of an estrogen link to enlarged prostates and prostate cancer. I am familiar with estrogen matabolites, but what is absolutely undeniable, is that once prostate cancer is present that it is fueled by testosterone. Clinical studies conclusively demonstrated PC to be fueled by testosterone in a test tube, conclusively demonstrated in mice infected with human PC, and conclusively demonstrated in many thousands of men. In fact, I believe it to be testosterone fed with even greater consistency than breast cancer is estrogen fed. Testosterone suppression abruptly suppresses its growth, testosterone supplementation fuels its growth. Once testosterone supply is cut off, PC will eventually (how soon, depends on factors such as Gleason score or grade of PC) become testosterone independent and is virtually unstopable once it is out of the prostate capsule.
I know of no research institution that would refute this, and not a single clinical study that would suggest otherwise. If I sound adamant, it is the result investigation at a rate of 60 hours a week over a period of months on traditional, non-traditional, and alternative treatment methods. It included many hours or face to face dialog with urological surgeons and urological oncologist at Memorial Slone-Kettering Cancer Center. Appointments at Columbia University Center for wholelistic Urology, and many books. That is just as starters.
We must keep in mind that unlike Peyronies Disease, this is a life and death issue for men. Speculation that is in error, is a deadly error.
I thought i'd write a post on this subject..I was always a high energy person, never realized it was because i had a high testosterone level...When i was about 45yrs old i started going down hill, no energy, depression, no drive, loss of erections and sexual desire...This went on for about 7 yrs and the uro i had at the time said i was normal for my age..I didn't like that answer and so finally changed Uro's...He said my test level was way down @ 300, and we should and could do something about it...He started me out on androgel, worked great for about a year and then my level started going down,,,so he changed me over to the androderm patch, which i've been on now for about 6yrs...When my testosterone level was brought back up,,,i started feeling great again,,no depression,,regained sexual drive and i didn't have to use as much viagra.....
I do have my PSA checked about every 6 months,,,,and i know that i cannot survive without having this test...replacement..It didn't make my breasts any bigger but it has given me a lot more body hair,,my wife liked that,,HA !
note; that first year on the androgel drove my level back up to 831,,,and i had to tell the doc to lower it some how as it made me climb the walls,,to high for me at my age, i was so horny and couldn't do much about it,,,lol
So, he lowered my doseage and it helped...Since being on the patch it has always stayed very level without changing...I still use viagra about 75% of the time, but have even cut back on the amount to 50mg...
I do agree and know that you have to keep check on your levels and your PSA,,its very important....each person's body reacts differently....Everything that Hawk has said in the last post is right on, he has given great advise..
kimo
Has anyone used DHEA? I have read several articles about the benefit for sex drive. Now I will bring it to the real experts. You guys.:)
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dhea/NS_patient-dhea -Mayo Clinic's DHEA page
Liam,,i tried that too,, before i went on testosterone,,didn't do anything for me,,,,,just my opinion,,,,kimo
Soxfan,
What is andogren treatment? My doctor tells me testosterone and these things will only boost your sex drive while your on them, and because your getting the testosterone from the pill, your testis quit producing as much, so in the end when you get off the pill your body may not produce as much testosterone.
Any comments?
Will Cialis just give you random erections? Does anyone know about this? Is there any ED drug besides injections that will give one random erectiosn without stimulation?
ComeBackid
ComeBackid,
The short answer is NO.
All oral ED drugs require physical or at least psychological stimulation. There may be an exception taken at night since night-time erections have more to do with sleep cycles than sex related dreams. I personally would never take an expensive ED drug with their many side effects for night-time erections when 1/2 of a 3 cent trazadone works better and has no side effects, except possibly a slightly better nights rest.
I refer you back to a more detailed post on comparing these drugs. Click below on the header below.
Quote from: Hawk on May 22, 2006, 09:58:04 AM
ComeBackid, MUSE is designed for that. How well it works is another question. Cialis is desined to do what Viagra does. It just lasts longer (up to 36 hrs). It will allow you to have an erection when stimulated. The idea of allowing "natural erections to happen for 36 hrs sounds good. The problem is, the side effects last for up to 36 hrs. (up tp 24 hrs. for Levitra).
The only instant erection I know of is the injection (tri mix).
I am getting about 75% success from Viagra. My erection is painful, but, tolerable. I get the blue haze and my face gets flushed. My Dr. prescribed 100 mg. I cut them in half so I can take it twice as many days. I get almost nothing from 25 mg. I have a fair response at 50 mg.
I am wondering about other experiences with our little blue friend.
I thought viagra is not supposed to be taken for patients with peyronies? I actually have some here and I'm wondering if continued usage could help to restore daytime erections?
ComeBackid
There is a study about taking it daily. I'll try to find and post it.
Quote from: pudder135 on July 12, 2006, 01:10:33 AM
I thought Viagra is not supposed to be taken for patients with peyronies? I actually have some hwere and I'm wondering if continued usage could help to restore daytime erections?
ComeBackid, No disrespect but there are hundreds of posts here about members taking Viagra and we all have Peyronies Disease. Dr. Mulhall insisted I keep injecting Bimix. I refused so he said take Viagra at least 2 or 3 times a week. He also had me on 25 mg every night for months before Peyronies Disease.
PS: to Liam. If you are getting 3/4 erections at one year, you are home free as far as your surgery is concerned and your nerve function. You regain most the 2nd year. Your only concern is Peyronies Disease with its many symptoms from here on out.
Hawk, I am highly encouraged. It is 12:52 am my time. This is one year.
Yes, it's a little skinnier than before and not quite as long. But, there is something to work with. I still can't sustain the erection very well. Thats OK for now.
When I had the surgery, I prepared myself to die and if I lived, to have ED (positive thinking at its worst). Everyday and every erection (no matter the quality) is a blessing. I have learned and am still learning to appreciate the things I have.
I'll stop before the violins start playing. Before I do, I'll just say, all you guys have done more than almost anyone :::nodding to my wife::: to keep me focused on recovery instead of wallowing in misery.
I am also convinced finding out about l- arginine has facilitated the improvements I have experienced in the last month and a half. I learned about it here..
Hawk,
Your missing my point though,I know some on here take viagra, however how do they know it didn't make their condition worse? My question is, why does it say on the label don't take if you have peyronies? Who determined this, someone didn't just make it up, there must be some valid reason they have it there, and I"m trying to figure out why.
Man if everyone listed what they got here worthwhile, I am sure it would be a huge list. I got nothing from the doctor, I got it all here. Besides support and satisfaction of seeing others find support, the biggest for me were:
Trazodone
ALC
L- Arginine
ComeBackid,
I can give you an educated guess in the form of a syllogism. Men with Peyronies Disease have painful erections. Viagra gives you an erection. Therefore Viagra gives men with Peyronies Disease pain.
This is the logic of a law suit. ::)
It's the same reason the FDA says VEDs should not be used by men who have Peyronies Disease.
If they didn't put the warning, they could face legal action.
Stupidity. This is one reason for the slow advances in medical research.
I would like to say that l-arginine is used by almost all the fighters in the UFC(cage fighters), it along with nox and amino acids, there are many blends you can buy at GNC or other health stores, You can buy it in bulk. The brand I like is expensive, but when I do use it, even before the french dick doctor's condition, I got some hard wood, plus great pumps in the gym. Trac was one brand I used and also my favroite(because of taste ect..)was xyience. There are many on these blends out there, and if you don't like to take pills and want a complete blend: They have three arginine in them hci, ketoisocaproate and alpha-ketoglutarate along with three creatines and three glutamine, most of you are pretty well informed on here and I hope I don't offend anyone with maybe already know knowledge. God Bless you.
Rico
Elsewhere on this forum, I have mentioned maca. I just want to mention it again here as it has done good things for me without any of the side effects that some of the other solutions have. Incidentally, maca works for both men and women. Basically it seems to work by making the body more sensitive to available hormones. So while not raising testosterone levels, it nevertheless increases the effect of the available testosterone. Its effect is very subtle and very smooth, gradually increasing over a period of weeks. For me it has been very satisfying. I have been taking 500mg twice a day now for probably three of four months and my wife is taking it two. Its really very cool in my opinion.
George999
I heard good things about Maca so I just order some over the net. I have order it in the powder form. It recommends to take 5 to 15 grams per day. Do you think that would be too much? I see you only take 1 gram per day. I lift weights and work out 4 days a week so I thought maybe I should take 5 grams every other day until my body gets use to it then maybe 5 grams per day. What do you think?
The great thing about maca is that it is actually a food. People eat it in significant quantities like potatoes or rice. So the only damage you are likely to see from it would be to your pocket book. For me one gram does the job. But I didn't have an ED problem going in. So for some folks it might take more. And for those who are wanting to have children and can't, research has proven that maca raises fertility, at least in men. Additionally, I think you will find that it just makes you feel better. Personally, I take it in tablet form (even those can be chewed), but it has a pleasant flavor and you can even cook good things out of the powder just like you would with flour. Thats the way they use it in Peru.
Is this stuff safe or doctor recomended? Did it increase erections for you guys noticeably? It sounds like an anti-depressant almost to me if it makes you feel good. I just have some skepticism because if it boosts your libido well, why aren't more people using it, or are they? So its a powder you put in your food and eat it with meals? Tim any thoughts on this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maca
mmmmmmm Maca beer ::::ala Homer::::::
Due to renewed interest I am reposting this PubMed piece.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1984101&dopt=Abstract
Has anyone in this forum had any success using nightly viagra to overcome ED? Did erection quality improve after discontinuing use of the drug? There was a 2004 study that suggested it works. Thanks for any replies.
Power
Power,
Your question comes just in time as we have been discussing, trazodone, half of a 50mg pill taken at night. Hawk intitally told me about this, saying that it gave him nighttime erections, which we know are healthy for the penis, because at night while sleeping for some reason the blood has the highest oxygen content. These nighttime erections keep the penis healthy, check our resource library under the collagen/oxygen I believe it is. Anyway, Hawk told me this drug helped him, so I tried it. The very first night I took it, I became a little sleepy and dozed off kind of and awoke with a solid erection, probably the most solid I've had in about a year. I then awoke later that night with another solid hard on. When I woke up the next day my penis was hanging bigger due to increased bloodflow, I was stunned. Lately trazodone has been discussed and apparently there are some studies going on with it. Here is a table breakdown of anti depressants I found. I was worried that while trazodone may increase nighttime erections, for some reason it won't give you daytime erections, and I thought maybe it would have a decreased libido effect like most anti depressants, however this doesn't appear to be the case.
Anti depressant study (http://www.aafp.org/afp/20000815/782.html)
This site is a writeup on anti depressants and effect on your sex drive. Table 1 downt he page has a good breakdown. It lists trazodone has having an increase on ones sex drive.
Here is another study done just on trazodone for erectile dysfunction. They couldn't reach a solid conclusion but that doesn't mean trazodone will or won't work, they need a bigger study and more of them. To me the fact that I saw an increase in my nightime erections and Hawk did as well, combined with the fact that they are doing studies on trazodone increasing libidio tells me others must have seen the same effect and reported it to their doctor. This new interest in trazodone(which is very cheap) is exciting, hopefully they can conduct some more solid studies.
Trazodone Study (http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band116/b116-4.html#Heading4)
Actually, Joshua also reported (in this thread) that he had immediate results as well, and a man on the old APDA forum reported the same. The response is undeniable in 4 out of 4 people that I can document trying it. As ComeBackid knows, but did not go into detail, this is a 1/2 of a 50 mg tablet is minuscule fraction of the dose for anti-depression and trazadone is non-habit forming.
Found this summery on these two drugs and their effect on ED. There are others on the website.
Trazodone A mild antidepressant with a rare incidence of priapism. Its effect on penile erection is thought to be the result of serotonergic and (a -adrenolytic activity. Clinical trials have shown a positive effect on nocturnal penile erection (Saenz de Tejada et al., 1991) and sexually stimulated erection (Lal et al., 1987). A combination of trazodone and yohimbine has also been reported to improve erectile function in some patients (Montorsi, 1994). The major problem of trazodone is its marked sedative effect, which may render sexual activity more difficult.
Pentoxifylline 400 mg t.i.d. was shown to be effective in improving penile brachial pressure index and erection in a placebo controlled trial.
http://www.apsir.org/html/kualalumpur97.htm
Hawk and others taking trazodone,
Did anyone notice besides nightime erections, that during the day their flaccid penis is more "pumped," and hangs bigger? I read that it dialates blood vessels. I was wondering if its ok to be on a drug like this while doing the VED and pumping blood through those dialated blood vessels. Trazodone seems to have helped me a lot when I take it, Hawk you hit a home run when you found that drug.
ComeBackid
I was immediately drawn to the trazadone discussion. I had taken trazadone after the death of my daughter. I remember the effect it had on my sex drive. When I got an erection during sex, it was by far harder and lasted longer. I can recall telling a friend that I felt like a kid again, it lasted much longer during sex! When I saw the posts on trazadone, I remembered the good stuff that happened. I was taking a much higher dose than in the discussions. I did contact my family doc and asked for a perscription of 50mg trazadone. He gave it to me without a visit, which saved me money in gas and the visit copay, and the stuff costs less than $4.00 for a script. I asked for a months supply @ one pill per day. I'm cutting the pills in half, so I'm getting two months supply for the cost of one. Add me to the list of satisfied customers, Hawk. The results are the same as the other four. That's Five outta Five, a perfect score!
ComeBackid: I don't know why there would be a problem using a VED while taking the stuff, I used to be like a rabbit in the sex department when I was taking it before, and at a lot higher doseage! I've been under a lot of stress lately, and this stuff works great restoring sleep patterns. After seeing all of the expensive treatments and scams out there, it's great to find an inexpensive pill that does what we are looking for it to do! Keep the Faith, Blink
I found this and thought it was interesting. Make sure to see the source web page.
Regeneration of Cavernous Nerves after Neurostomy
As growth hormone has been reported to improve nerve regeneration, we studied the effect of rat growth hormone (GH) on the regeneration of nitric oxide synthase (NOS)-containing penile nerves and the neurons in the pelvic ganglia after unilateral cavernous nerve neurotomy in rats. The results show that GH injection significantly enhances the regeneration of NOS-containing fibers in the dorsal and intracavernosal nerves after unilateral cavernous nerve injury. Electrostimulation in the GH-treated group revealed a greater maximal intracavernosal pressure and a shorter latency period. We believe that GH administration may present a new and more physiologic approach to the treatment of erectile dysfunction after radical pelvic surgery.
Source: http://urology.ucsf.edu/faculty/facLue_Interest.html
While I have not thoroughly looked at this information (I am falling a sleep at the wheel), I would be VERY hesitant to allow the administration of growth hormone after any form of cancer surgery.
Hawk,
I whole heartedly agree. I had to read through the article a couple of times to make sure I was reading it right. The electro-stimulation sounded especially bad. ;)
Liam
Now Liam, hang on. They use electro-stimulation to make the rats get little rat erections, because it's just so hard to find good rodent porn they can read.
Tim
LOL ;D
I've just finished reading through all the communications from the beginning of this forum, and have learned quite a bit. The importance of nocturnal erections and trazadone was especially intriguing, and I will be pursuing that with my doctor day after tomorrow.
Trazadone aside, I want to convey some experiences I have had with antidepressants over the last few months:
SSRI=selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor
SNRI=selective serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor
(All the antidepressants I'm going to discuss list possible sexual side effects, although these are usually minimized by physicians, who frequently downplay side effects to avoid self-fulfilling prophecies on the part of their patients. Personally, I think I can handle that information up front, and have made it a point to become much more educated about the drugs I've been prescribed.)
Cymbalta (duloxetine) (SNRI): I experienced gradual loss of erectile ability and libido. After two weeks I was unable to ejaculate. I had tremors in my hands which persisted as long as I was on the drug.
Lexapro (escitalopram) (SSRI): Loss of libido and lack of ability to ejaculate.
Prozac (also known as Sarafem) (SSRI): TOTAL loss of libido, diminished erectile ability, and ability to ejaculate. I remember telling my doctor, you don't even want to bother to try.
Remeron (mirtazapine) (SSRI): Diminished libido, inability to ejaculate. You also want to eat everything in sight. Interestingly, I later learned that this drug was widely used in nursing homes as an appetite stimulant, certainly an off-label use.
Celexa (citalopram) (SSRI): I could keep an erection, but could not ejaculate no matter how hard I tried. This one is a close chemical cousin of Lexapro. Celexa was developed first, but the patent expired, so Lexapro was developed as a mirror-image drug to attempt to recapture market share.
DISCUSSION: Depression is a real problem, and I would not discourage anyone from pursuing any avenue to help to alleviate that problem. In my case, we were trying these as an adjunct to Neurontin for neuropathy pain in my legs. I also suffered from mild (sub-clinical) depression. HOWEVER, this is a case where the cure was worse than the problem. In each instance, my erections improved and I was once again able to ejaculate when I discontinued the drug. I agreed to continue to try drugs because of the pain in my legs, but finally decided antidepressants aren't for me. Since many Peyronie's sufferers probably suffer from depression over their situation, it is not unlikely that some of them are on antidepressants. If so, they should take a look at antidepressants as a potential source of at least part of the problem. And to save you some time and money, I have since learned that if one SSRI affects you negatively in a sexual way, they probably all do. I reserve comments on Wellbutrin, which is not a SSRI, but rather works on norepinephrine and dopamine. I haven't tried that one, because it appeared that my tremors on Cymbalta had to do with norepinephrine.
Hope this is helpful to someone, and thanks for all the information in this and other forums.
By the way, as a novice computer person, could someone please inform me as to the mean of lol and LOL? Thanks.
Scott, wow! you said a mouthful there. That was some interesting stuff. BTW :LOL means Laugh Out Loud! BTW means BY THE WAY Keep the Faith...Blink
Scott,
I tried both celexa and lexapro, my doctor told me that lexapro was a newer and more refined version of celexa with less side effects. Nonetheless I noticed with the lexapro it was extremely hard to ejaculate, this is the common side effect from it. I also slowly lost my libido, which now seems to be totally gone, even being off of the drug for a year. I'm trying to find a medication to restore that libido and random daytime erections.
The Wellbutrin will increase your sex drive, this is what my doctor has told me, I didn't ask him about trazodone, but have noticed erections at night, and increased bloodflow during the day, making for an increase in size due to blood vessel dialation. My doctor to confirmed that the SSRI's usually have some kind of sexual side effects.
The viagra seems to give me more full and solid erections, I'm just undecided whether I should be taking it daily when I'm already on Iono, VED, ALC, L Arginine, and trazodone.
ComeBackid
ComeBackid,,,At about 45 yrs old i started loosing all my libido and was that way for a few yrs,,,it was not from taking any meds, my body just quit making testosterone, it was about 10yrs before i found a good URO who tested me and said it could be fixed..He put me on ANDROGEL, it looks like KY Jelly and you just rub it on twice a day on your shoulders,,,WOW, what a difference it made for me,,matter of fact it took my testosterone levels too high for and old fart like me,,,,As for numbers go 200 is considered 0 and 800 is considered normal for a 20 to 30 yr old,,,it brought mine up to 831 and let me tell ya,,i was climbing the walls, man i was hornier than i could stand,,so he lowered the dosage and it was better....Anyways,,you might think about having your testosterone level checked out,,,,it's just my thoughts....
Malamapono,,,,,Kimo
Scott,
Tried Remeron for 2 months. I gained almost 20 lb. I started having edema in my ankles and feet.
I changed to Wellbutrin and the edema went away. The weight is coming off much more slowly than I put it on, though. No sexual side effects except maybe some improvement. I can't give the credit to the Wellbutrin. But, at least it hasn't hurt. ;)
Just got trazadone at 50mg. prescribed. Is anybody here real drowzy through the day with headaches after taking this? I'm on so many sups with Trazadone and Pentox, not sure what's causing this. Any Thoughts?
Zigwyth the Twiggith
Zig,
I'm not taking it, the 50mg I think is double what people are taking that are not looking for a anti depressant. I think they are taking 25mg. I have read that you will feel dozy for the first couple of hours in the morning, but it should go away. Also your body will adjust to it after several weeks.
Mixing and matching a whole bunch of supplements? I think we can go over board with them. It is hard to tell also what is working and what isn't. There have been too many positive reports with alc, arginine and over all good diet to discount these in my opinion.
I thought about taking the tazadone also, thought it might be good for depression and erections. I have night time ones, so I decided to go the route of exercise, it always puts me in a good mood, endorphins.
I had to back off the dmso, it burnt my skin after six applications. So I'm taking a step to the left and adjusting.
So far for me what seems to work is.....a good arginine, alc, glutamine sports mix, a well thought out and consistent diet, epsom salt baths, and lots of sleep....this is where the trazodone might help some people, the stress of this or when life gets in the way....you need sleep to heal....my self, if I go for a three mile run, do some weight training ect.....I get the same results, the epsom salt baths also induce sleep for me....
This weekend instead of soaking my self in thacker, I made a tee time, I going to play 18 and get some fresh air....a good dinner...movie and a warm bath...maybe a cold beer afterwars at the 19th hole....
Every time I think of a new supplement, the first thing I do is look for foods with this in it, and it to my shopping list for groceries, natural is better....
The first several months is hard with peyronies, you become anxious, question your mascunity and become depress and stressed out...then start looking for the magic pill.....
I have only had this now for four months, I can have sex if I choose, I'm a lucky one.
I take now cq10/vit e(it comes in the same pill) msm, fish oil(omega three) along with the arginine, alc sport mix......serrapeptase(trying this).......The only reason I'm doing this enzyme is the lady at the store said she seen results in four weeks on her c section scars, I'm very doubtful, it doesn't dissolve the same plaque, but she could really care less if I bought it or not, the live testimony and the cost was 17 dollars for a month I added it to my list.
I was told and believe you have to limited the number of supplements, try to get it down to under six, some say four, I count my sport mix as one, this is because they have been put together to work hand in hand, and fish oil(omega three), I don't count, but do believe this is one of the most important supplement to take, I don't see it working against anything. Hard drugs, pentox, trazadone ect...put together by your doctor for a specific condition, well then if this is your choice I would talk to him about your other supplements....
One has to look at there age also and general eating habits and health condition. I take a prostate vitamin, I'm over 50, no prostate problems, but prevention is the best medicine, it is really a condense tomato paste...I eat a steam beet every night, great for your colon health....
ALC l believe is more needed for someone over 40.....
I know for myself, you can read on post on this forum or somewhere on the net, like I took capro and my peyronies went away, and we all want to be saved also...I'm just as guilty, I had a bad experience with burning and taste on the dmso years ago, but kept reading post on it, pretty soon I had it on, now I have a sun burnt looking penis, and back to the drawing board.....I'm talking as you can all see to myself again on here:)....but I'm sticking now to the diet I have put together, this I can tell is helping me with all aspects of my life, and is the life style one should lead, peyronies free or not, plenty of fresh air and exercise, humor, pray, and some supplements, once again the only one I'm taking that I wouldn't take anyway is serrapeptase, the ALC I found because of peyronies, and I would take this anyway.....
I checked into the ved, my insurance won't cover it....the new model should be out in several weeks, I talked to the rep at soma, and gave him my urologist name to get the prescriptson I need....since most of my program is leaning towards a physical approach to this, the VED seems to make sense to me at this point in the game.....Take care and God Bless...
Rico
Zig,
Yes the first few times taking trazodone, I got real drowsy, this effect will go away over time, try taking only a half of the 50mg dosage, I think this is what most of us are on. The only side effects I've noticed are some dehydration, and aching feet in the morning, along with that drowsiness. The effects seem to be lessening now that I've been on the drug consistently for awhile.
I still have the "fuller," feeling penis when flaccid, but have noticied a delay time in ejaculation, similar to what I experienced while on lexapro, then it was even harder to ejaculate. I will keep you posted if I notice any other side effects.
ComeBackid
The ONLY side effect I have experienced is that if I am real sleepy, (like now) and take 25 mg it will make me more sleepy. I never felt tired in the mornings, never drained, groggy, or dehydrated (I drink 6 - 8 glasses of water per day). I certainly never felt any pain and I do not think pain is even a listed rare side effect.
Hi Rico,,
This is Hopeful.. I have trouble with the baths- mainly because - I feel weaker- and my heart arrythmia.. What about just soakling a wash cloth with warm eposm salt- and applying to th penis... do you think it works- I have the Epsom Salt creme which I am using as well.
Hopeful
Quote from: Rico on August 17, 2006, 04:58:56 PM
Zig,
So far for me what seems to work is.....a good arginine, alc, glutamine sports mix, a well thought out and consistent diet, epsom salt baths, and lots of sleep....this is where the trazodone might help some people, the stress of this or when life gets in the way....you need sleep to heal....my self, if I go for a three mile run, do some weight training ect.....I get the same results, the epsom salt baths also induce sleep for me.
[Kimo- are you stil on Androgel?- and how much does it cost- and what are the side effects.
Thank you,
Hopeful
Thanks guys. Actually I have noticed taking a little longer to ejaculate as well since starting the Trazadone. It is helping me to sleep however. Have pretty bad insomnia. The Bath soaks definitely help. I actually ordered Dead Sea Salt online for other skin issues originally. Headaches are probably due to Stress.
Zigwyth
Hopefull,
I had tried to send you a message(pm) several days ago, you mail box is or was full. I don't know if soaking your unit in a warm wash rag with epsom salts will do much. Epsom salts won't dissolve the plaque, this is more for inflammation and to relax. Hot and cold therapy is also good for circulation, run warm water on the scar for one minute and then cold, do this seven times for each 14 total minutes. Arginine/ornithine/glutamine is something I would also take for wound healing. Taking MSM orally also along with some fish oil.....take care..Rico
Zig,
If you are having head aches, make sure you are drinking lots of water, start with 12oz as soon as you get up, put a large glass next to your bed also. If one becomes thirsty, this means he is already becoming dehydrated, you should never feel like you need a drink. Also don't drink tap water....filter or best is distilled, regular water is full of rock minerals, these we don't digest, cause of kidney stones ect...you need to get you minerals from plants(veggies/fruits, raw)....take care...
Rico
Anyone who has taken this, did you notice your penis was more pumped and fuller when flaccid throughout the day? Seems like it could give one spontaneous erections.
ComeBackid
I have taken Cialis and specifically noticed it does NOT make my penis fuller or cause spontaneous erections. Every ED drug indicated that it will work only with stimulated erections (psychological or physical stimulation.
Quote from: Rico on August 17, 2006, 04:58:56 PM
Zig,
I'm not taking it, the 50mg I think is double what people are taking that are not looking for a anti depressant. I think they are taking 25mg. I have read that you will feel dozy for the first couple of hours in the morning, but it should go away. Also your body will adjust to it after several weeks.
Mixing and matching a whole bunch of supplements? I think we can go over board with them. It is hard to tell also what is working and what isn't. There have been too many positive reports with alc, arginine and over all good diet to discount these in my opinion.
I thought about taking the tazadone also, thought it might be good for depression and erections. I have night time ones, so I decided to go the route of exercise, it always puts me in a good mood, endorphins.
I had to back off the dmso, it burnt my skin after six applications. So I'm taking a step to the left and adjusting.
So far for me what seems to work is.....a good arginine, alc, glutamine sports mix, a well thought out and consistent diet, epsom salt baths, and lots of sleep....this is where the trazodone might help some people, the stress of this or when life gets in the way....you need sleep to heal....my self, if I go for a three mile run, do some weight training ect.....I get the same results, the epsom salt baths also induce sleep for me....
This weekend instead of soaking my self in thacker, I made a tee time, I going to play 18 and get some fresh air....a good dinner...movie and a warm bath...maybe a cold beer afterwars at the 19th hole....
Every time I think of a new supplement, the first thing I do is look for foods with this in it, and it to my shopping list for groceries, natural is better....
The first several months is hard with peyronies, you become anxious, question your mascunity and become depress and stressed out...then start looking for the magic pill.....
I have only had this now for four months, I can have sex if I choose, I'm a lucky one.
I take now cq10/vit e(it comes in the same pill) msm, fish oil(omega three) along with the arginine, alc sport mix......serrapeptase(trying this).......The only reason I'm doing this enzyme is the lady at the store said she seen results in four weeks on her c section scars, I'm very doubtful, it doesn't dissolve the same plaque, but she could really care less if I bought it or not, the live testimony and the cost was 17 dollars for a month I added it to my list.
I was told and believe you have to limited the number of supplements, try to get it down to under six, some say four, I count my sport mix as one, this is because they have been put together to work hand in hand, and fish oil(omega three), I don't count, but do believe this is one of the most important supplement to take, I don't see it working against anything. Hard drugs, pentox, trazadone ect...put together by your doctor for a specific condition, well then if this is your choice I would talk to him about your other supplements....
One has to look at there age also and general eating habits and health condition. I take a prostate vitamin, I'm over 50, no prostate problems, but prevention is the best medicine, it is really a condense tomato paste...I eat a steam beet every night, great for your colon health....
ALC l believe is more needed for someone over 40.....
I know for myself, you can read on post on this forum or somewhere on the net, like I took capro and my peyronies went away, and we all want to be saved also...I'm just as guilty, I had a bad experience with burning and taste on the dmso years ago, but kept reading post on it, pretty soon I had it on, now I have a sun burnt looking penis, and back to the drawing board.....I'm talking as you can all see to myself again on here:)....but I'm sticking now to the diet I have put together, this I can tell is helping me with all aspects of my life, and is the life style one should lead, peyronies free or not, plenty of fresh air and exercise, humor, pray, and some supplements, once again the only one I'm taking that I wouldn't take anyway is serrapeptase, the ALC I found because of peyronies, and I would take this anyway.....
I checked into the ved, my insurance won't cover it....the new model should be out in several weeks, I talked to the rep at soma, and gave him my urologist name to get the prescriptson I need....since most of my program is leaning towards a physical approach to this, the VED seems to make sense to me at this point in the game.....Take care and God Bless...
Rico
Rico,
I like the same kind of lifesytle too, healthy food, exercise, sleep....etc
I'm taking the supplements that most here are taking along with vitamins, I also take 25mg of trazadone, I get the "fuller" size during the day.....
I went through 15 ultrasounds and 4/5 iono treatments, my doc did'nt know what settings to use so I treated myself and did the treatments at 4 amps, it took 4 minutes... :)
As you know my loving wife is creating a VED for me, hoping to share with everyone when she finishes it.....
An avenue we have thought about is strong manual massage followed by icing......any thoughts
Mr.BLBC
Mr BlBC,
I know some talk about jeling(sp), which is a form of massage, the Old Man posted he could provide information on it. I thought about it, but I ordered the VED and will do the 26 protocol that is the shorter version of duration of holding the vacuum 5-10 seconds for 10 times. Dr. Levine on his web site disagrees with this, he prefers long periods for five minutes a couple of times a day......he did say that there are no studies on the VED which one can stand by as of yet, but he condemns the spivey method?
My only reasoning on short periods comes from studying under a Russian trainer who started a new regimen for stretching, he use to train the KGB special forces and now trains martial artist all over the world, Pavlica is his name, I went to his seminar and then did some training with him and became friends. His method work, and especially on scar torn areas, short burst of low intensity stretch, held release and held release. I notice great improvement, and after a short period and had for years did the hold and strain approach.....the hold and strain approach actually tears the muscle or tissue, wear the other method stretches and it come to learn memory...warm up is important also, or condition, like going from the small to medium cylinders.....so this is my reason to go with this, plus the OLD MAN agrees and he is my New Sensi and I do believe the old wise one, I will swing my sword again is my battle cry!!
The massage IMHO is or would be harder to control the symmetrical shaping of your penis, you might massage the scar to thin in one area or not enough in another, and get a lope sided dick, or more lop sided....I think that the vacuum gives one more control and quality and consistency in the pressure over a even surface, I think of the same as with traction, especially if you are also going for girth, and the warm blood is a big asset, once again this is why I think ved is better than traction or massage...IMHO:).....remember I only have one dick, so anything I do is a one study:).... I did hear of this two pecker billy goat in Kansas, maybe we can get him:)!!!
I just went to the APDA site and read the VED comment on the holding the long period five minutes, and Levine's comment on that the company that is producing the three cylinder ved HAS(not in his opinion, but has) the wrong protocol.....I find this to be talking out of his side of his mouth, how can he say that everything is hear-say because there are not enough studies and then say that?? Then he says he is going to use the three cylinder......I feel anyone who follows the long pump method is asking for problems....I will say that, because I care about people and I wouldn't want anyone to injure there peyronies more....I'm sorry, because I don't have a study to back it, but I have been around the block a couple of times and I believe it....
When It comes to the VED, well Angus and the Old Man are ahead of the curve In my opinion.....
I didn't want to get on a tangen here Mr. BLBC, or go the long way around the barn to your question, but I would go with the three tube and follow the 26 week protocol, and like Angus and the Old Man says, it is like cooking ribs, slow and long........
RICE....rest...Ice....compression....rest.....is best used in the early stages of a injury....if you think you over use the unit and it is re injury and inflammation sets in, then yes, I would ice it, or if you want to add circulation, then I would go from hot to cold, use a shower massager, one minute hot, one minute cold for 14 minutes total time....as the Old Man stated when you start, take your time, maybe only pump for a minute, get use to it....the first few times, weeks is so important to condition your scar tissue and surrounding area to the treatment, most athletes can't control their desire to get back in the game, walk before you run I think would be the right approach with the ved and mine is order, I might add I got the information from SOMAcorrect fts(this stands for fit to size), the new improvements are nothing really, mostly for ED, more rings to put on your unit, more sizes ect...maybe the seal is better?? most of the kit I won't use, so I don't think the new one is anybetter than the old model three cylinder for peyronies....I already ordered it and have to wait for it to come the first week of sept....my gut is you will be seeing other ved suppliers coming out with a three cylinder, and maybe a doctor backing it also, with his own protocol.....I know if Joseph Pilates where asked which one he would choose he would pick the short holding period of the stretch, he was so far ahead of his time, just like the Old Man, and you know why, because he actually use it hisself...isn't that a brilliant way to figure something out:)!.....
Rico
Well I submitted a bunch of questions to the world peyronies expert, finally they answered one of my questions, and one we have debated on this forum.
When I take Viagra I notice that it gives me a full erection and improves my "weak" erection from my Peyronie's disease. I only took it a couple of times and then heard not to take Viagra and stopped. It seems to help my erection and makes sex possible for me. Can Viagra make the disease worse or do damage?
Answer: This is an excellent question as you point out some of the misconceptions for the use of Viagra or the other PDE5 inhibitors (i.e. Cialis and Levitra). All three of the companies who make these drugs have in their package insert a cautionary note regarding using these drugs in men with ED and Peyronie's disease. This is because the companies did not study ED in men with Peyronie's disease and therefore they cannot make any claims to the FDA resulting in the cautionary note. On the other hand, a published study examining the effects of Viagra in men with ED and Peyronies Disease demonstrated that it did improve erectile function in 71% of the men receiving the Viagra. In addition, none of them had worsening of their deformity or new onset of pain. Furthermore, there is very recent research evidence that Viagra, as well as the others, can increase the amount of circulating nitric oxide (NO) which appears in the research setting to have an anti-fibrotic effect.
The key point to remember is that if you use Viagra or the other agents to enhance your erections in the presence of Peyronie's disease it is possible that you could reinjure the penis during sex. It is therefore wise to be careful about one's sexual activity so as to reduce the likelihood recurrent trauma and reactivation of the Peyronie's process. So far this has not been a problem for my patients.
So taking viagra according to Dr. Levine is actually a good thing, man I wish someone would of just came clean with an answer like this awhile ago.
ComeBackid
ComeBackid,
Good work in getting a doc to clarify.
QuoteAnswer: This is an excellent question as you point out some of the misconceptions for the use of Viagra or the other PDE5 inhibitors (i.e. Cialis and Levitra). All three of the companies who make these drugs have in their package insert a cautionary note regarding using these drugs in men with ED and Peyronie's disease. This is because the companies did not study ED in men with Peyronie's disease and therefore they cannot make any claims to the FDA resulting in the cautionary note. On the other hand, a published study examining the effects of Viagra in men with ED and Peyronies Disease demonstrated that it did improve erectile function in 71% of the men receiving the Viagra. In addition, none of them had worsening of their deformity or new onset of pain. Furthermore, there is very recent research evidence that Viagra, as well as the others, can increase the amount of circulating nitric oxide (NO) which appears in the research setting to have an anti-fibrotic effect.
:) IOW, We got something right. ::::feeling pride in our forum:::: :)
QuoteThe key point to remember is that if you use Viagra or the other agents to enhance your erections in the presence of Peyronie's disease it is possible that you could reinjure the penis during sex.
So, use ED drugs to improve your erection. It's perfectly safe. But, any sexual relations you have (due to your new improved erection) may make it worse. CYA at its very best.
Watch those CYA words: may, could, is Possible, when used correctly, etc...
The list goes on.
Liam
"Dr. Levine on his web site disagrees with this, he prefers long periods for five minutes a couple of times a day......he did say that there are no studies on the VED which one can stand by as of yet, but he condemns the spivey method?"
Dr. Levines statment:
The vacuum therapy has been suggested for several years to be a potential treatment for Peyronie's disease to stretch the scar tissue and thereby result in straightening. Unfortunately, there are only anecdotal, unpublished reports on this approach. Currently there is a study in Chicago comparing the results of verapamil alone to verapamil plus vacuum therapy, using the three piece vacuum system. The results of this study are not yet available, but in my opinion, it does seem to make sense to combine medical therapy with the hope that the drug may affect fibroblast behavior, which is responsible for the scarring, as well as applying mechanical forces to stretch the tissue and to encourage further remodeling and straightening of the penis. The key is that the device needs to be applied daily for no longer than 30 minutes per treatment, but these treatments can be done 2-3 times per day if the time is available to do so. So far there have been very few reports in the medical literature that a vacuum device would cause Peyronie's disease, but again it is unlikely that the device so much causes it as it does result in an erection which can then be injured activating Peyronie's disease in the susceptible individual. Currently I am using combination therapy of verapamil injection with external vacuum therapy using the three cylinder VED device.
Rico, I don't think Dr Levine is condemning the current method, he simply states there is no medical literature with studies on this subject that are available at this time, this is something we all know. Most doctors like to do research and produce studies, and don't seem to like to support protocols or treatments without them. Doctors love DATA (just ask Tim, he drinks DATA every morning instead of coffee :D) I think its a good thing that Dr. Levine believes in the theory of vacuum therapy and is pursuing research on it. He just basically says the device CAN be used 2 or 3 times a day. I don't see anywhere that Dr. Levine has said you should hold an erection for 5 minutes? He does use the magic number 30 minutes, he must be getting this from all the traditional warnings of not leaving the constriction ring on more than 30 minutes. I believe it was Angus who told me he did 2 workouts per day, I don't think doing more than 10 pumps per day will hurt, but then again I'm not the doctor. To me it would seem like holding longer would be better. When I used to run cross country we would hold our stretches for 20 seconds to get a better stretch, I was so flexible I could palm the ground standing straight up, most people just stretch for about 10 seconds. However it took two or three months to gain that stretching ability. I think there is no exact protocol for the VED yet, other than what Augusta Medical Systems has produced, it is quite possible that Dr. Levine may develop a different protocol that works just as well, I think the important thing in this arena is just to do some stretching of that tissue, don't let it rest idle and contract even more.
ComeBackid
ComeBackid,
That was his last post, and maybe he changed his mind now, or calm it down, try reading all his post on that site, it wasn't long ago that he said that you shouldn't follow the method of short periods, vs the longer, which is find, this is his opinion, I thought it was strange that a Doctor without a study or placebo study that everyone hangs there hat on, can say the longer stretching vs as he says the up and down approach is better, go back and read the whole forum and tell me if I'm wrong....
Rico....slow and steady....the st recthing is my opinion and it is a new and NOW a favor way of stretching by experience people with sport injuries....
I'm not against Doctors, and now they are saying that it is going to be a combination of medical and mechanical approach to peyronies, so they are trying to get 50%..... talk to any chiropractor out there, the medical community treats them like the red headed step child, like I said, there guts turn on the thought of them having DR. on there business card, they don't respect them, so be it....I don't care, but if I catch one talking out of the side of there mouth, I will speak out on them, this is my choice as a American who came to call when his country called.......
As I see it, the only way now that they can get there name on the method is change up the protocol, and maybe they believe in there technique, I DON"T, and most coaches or people in tune with st recthing today wouldn't either, or people decades ago, Like Joseph Pilates, his method which is use by almost anyone who knows what is going on, including the New York City Ballet, NFL football League and every other major sport franchise follows the short bursts and repeated method....Please read the whole post and then post your comment...
God Bless....
Rico
ComeBackid,
Once again, it is up to you...if you want to hold it longer, go for it....the program I read said 5-10 seconds for 10 times once a day, this is 50 seconds to 100 seconds total per day, this is the plan that makes sense to me from a person who has spent years of working with repairing scar tissue, not as a doctor, but patient.....what work for me and what didn't....I'm going with what is believe to be the best method today.....remember there are egos and money to be made out there, this isn't a good will gesture on there part....I don't care what you choose to do, hold it for five minutes if this what you feel you need to do, once again also, you peyronies is not the same as mind, I have to say what I feel is right for someone like myself that has had peyronies now for four months and has a slight curve and hour glass and plaque on the septum....which again, Levine said is the most difficult, which I disagree, because there is more fiber in this area and it is more center, which I feel give ones a better chance to mold the plaque....if someone beats them to the punch, the only way they can capitalize on it is to tweak it.....maybe he was in track twenty years ago....that is how they use to stretched, there are people out there who haven't keep up with the sports community...
Rico
ComeBackid,
Remember that they have been sticking people with needles and drugs for years, this is why now he is saying that the cure is 50% medical and 50% mechanical, how does he know this, or is the a classic CYA, Mick, Old Man, Angus went with 100% Mechanical, or is this a way to not say, OH the Chiropractors figure it out AGAIN!!
I'm not saying that softening the plaque can't help, I thought of needling the plaque, which again would be more of a mechanical approach, but I have to go back to people like Mich, who had the common sense to say, I have to find out if this works, and thought if he used anything else he wouldn't know, so he did it on a stand alone basis and got results, Thank You Mick and Old Man and Angus...you are the pioneers.... Hero's to us all!!!
Rico......... if you took the electrical current away from any verapamil treatment...you guess what you would have....
Rico,
I'm kind of confused as to what you are saying? I did not see a post from Dr. Levine saying that holding the VED for longer time periods is the way to go, if he did say that its just his opinion. I'm saying I don't think it can hurt. You say Mick, Angus, and Old Man had the common sense to try this, I agree, I think VED therapy is the way to go thats why I'm trying it as well... Dont forget the many others who have tried it as well... steve, soxfan, ziggy, tim etc...
I kind of lost you in your last three posts man, personally I think Dr. Levine is just trying a new protocol for stretching in doing it for longer period, this may work better, or it may not, we don't know really, Dr. Levine is going to the bat for us and I appreciate his efforts, hes doing more than most doctors who tell us to go stare at our dicks and take vitamin E. I don't think Dr. Levine is condemning the current protocol by Augusta Medical Systems, if he is please show me the post. I think you kind of misinterupted what I was posting about. I hope there will be more studies on the VED therapy andwe can learn even more about it.
ComeBackid
ComeBackid,
I have nothing against Levine, I said if you read back a few post that he says that the up and down method is not correct, but once again has no study to back it, it is confusing that all the "doctors" want studies, but they can say what they want....read back about 8 months....the up and down is short periods and repeat, he thinks longer period like 5 minutes for several times a day....this is his opinion and maybe he thinks it is right, so be it....like I said, you have to go with your heart on this one....I will choose the later, the Spievy, which by the way I thank you for showing me...and I thank the Old Man also, his might be a little different, but I like the Old Man's way of thinking, take it slow, be careful, less is better....I myself wouldn't put it on for five minutes the first time.....that is me, I will go more like 5 seconds for several times to I get a feel for it....another thing Levine said in one of his old posts is that the look in the tube is not real because of the blood giving a false imaging of what is happenings, it is filling the tissue and not st recthing the tunica, this to be doesn't make sense, I feel that you are stretching it from the inside out, which is why I feel is better than massage or traction, the scar runs deep and is less suitable to further injury from this approach IMHO, because you are not pulling on the outside of the injured area as much.....
Rico
Hey guys:
Take a good hard look at the Spivey method and the Soma Correct Protocol. I think that you will find that they are one and the same. The vacuum therapy site (Spivey) just leaves out a lot to be desired about the details.
Regards, Old Man
Hopeful,
I will address the ED first and then circle back on the unit issue you asked about in the last post...
First of all ED can be different for all of us, it can be a mental problem and or health issues.... peyronies can lead to ED issues...
I have been taking ginseng, Prince of Peace, I bought it at GNC, I take two serving in the morning with ginkgo, I have noticed good wood in the morning...
I believe in over all health, many studies tying your heart health to ED....this is the main pump you have to keep in check to get the blood to your unit....diet also, if you are over weight this can effect your performance, smoking, drinking are contributors to ED...
I would suggest first...exercise, including VED, start with walking....I should say before you do anything, go to your doctor, get blood pressure check ect..... so exercise, diet, and supplements, omega three, cq10, opc's, ginseng, ginkgo.... and lots of juice and water...
If you really focus on your heart and your problem is a physical one, I think you will be on your way to better erections soon, one can turn his body around in six weeks on the proper program....in six months you can be a new man....I suggest yoga and pilates and of course of believe everyone should be in some form of the martial arts...
Goggle diet for heart health....if you don't like to cook or find it hard to change your diet, buy a juicer Jack La Lane has one at kmart for under 100. dollars, it comes with instructions and drinks to make...
If you are over 50, start taking Lycopene...I would even start this in my fourties to ward off prostate cancer...
I do also believe in praying of some kind...this can be in the way of doing a kind act for someone everyday...I believe this is the best kind of prayer...
You asked me about the Estim unit...I don't have one of those, I saw it on another site, you can goggle it.... The Dr. HO Massage unit I have you can also goggle, it makes ones muscle twitch, very strong, your penis is not a muscle, it is just tissue and nerves.....Because of the verapamil delivery with the physion machine and some results with saline and the thought it might be the electric current is why I'm looking at these....
Take care and have a bless day....
Rico
Hopeful,
I think the supplements Rico outlined, have a real impact on ED. His other recommendations can also have an impact.
ED is so complex and erection can be interrupted at so many phases that it is difficult to generalize. Each phase can also have many things that interrupt the process. If your ED is sudden with Peyronie's Disease, it is much less likely to be general heart health and more likely to be venous leakage caused by plaque placement, not by scar tissue in the vessels but near them that may prevent the veins that drain the penis from getting squeezed shut.
Did you have any ED prior to Peyronies Disease?
was the onset gradual or fairly sudden?
Is your desire for sex similar or has it suddenly decreased
Do you get nite-time erections?
Are there any situations or positions that seem to impact your erections (standing, lying on your back etc?)
These all give clues. It could be the seemingly obvious Peyronies Disease related ED, or a symptom of other medical conditions. Many issues like alcohol and cirgatettes can have an impact.
Also, keep in mind that just because a supplement approach is taken does not mean it is safe. Some of these supplements can raise or lower blood pressure etc. If you have a heart condition that prevents the use of ED drugs, check with your doctor before jumping on supplements.
In reply to some Arginine discussion on the oral treatments topic, I post the following.
First understand that with no ED drug or supplement I can get only about a 2 or 3 on an the erection scale (6 is minimum that is suitable for intercourse). Normally a 100 mg Viagra takes me to a 5 which I refer to as a stuffable erection which is enough to drive 2 people crazy.
the erection scale for those unfamiliar
0= no response
2= plumping out but still clearly flaccid
5=stuffable meaning you may get penetration if you kind of use your hand to force bood toward the end but it does not work.
6=minimum for actual intercourse
8=solid erection that most any man or partner would say falls in the realm of a normal erection
10= a diamond cutter that is as hard as any erection experienced at any age.
I started with 2 500 mg GNC Arginine capsules 3 times per day. With in 30 min of taking 2, my penis was very noticeably full but flaccid (about a 2 or 3 with no stimulation) but they hurt my gut just enough that it was nuisance.
I switched to GNC 1000 MG arginine horse pills. Two of those (twice the amount) did not hurt my stomach at all but it also did not give me the rapid "plumping out" that the capsules gave.
Two 1000 MG horse pills taken with a 100mg Viagra do give me the boost I need for a 6 on the erection scale. The difference between a 5 and a 6 is life changing. I am now on Puritan Pride 1000 mg pills that are indistinguishable from GNC in look and action but are much cheaper.
Why do the capsuls from the same manufacture seem to have more positive effect and more stomach upset than the pills. Do they dump the contents into your system quicker? Was it because I was new to the supplement when I took the capsuls? Is there some qualitative difference between the two?
By the way, 1/2 of a 50 mg trazodone gives me night time erections of at least a 9 just as a comparison
Hawk I figured out what you need to do, have sex in your sleep, I know a couple of women who have prefected it:)...
Rico
Hawk
I really like your scale to quantify erections. If it is yours then it should be named after you - like the Beaufort Scale for windspeed.
Regards,
Percival
I wish I could say it was mine. I always aspired to have erections associated with my name. It would really impress the women ;D
Actually Dr. Mulhall's nurse introduced me to the scale when she was teaching me how to inject bimix. We would communicate 2 or 3 times a week in terms of dose adjustment and where I was on the scale. I have encountered it elsewhere though so it must be an accepted with doctors treating ED. They may use it in the porn industry also. ;)
Hi everyone...am 35 years old and been diagnosed with e.d. which is secondary from the peyronies disease...was diagnosed approx 4 years ago. my physician is a specialist in Peyronies Disease and ed. Viagra once worked wonders, but after I was involved in an accident, which left my hip crushed, it does not provide nearly the quality of erection it once did. Tried all oral ed meds and none work. The dr placed me on shots for ed which worked like a dream in the beginning, but now does not work as well. Had blood flow tests performed and the results of that state I do have good blood flow, but I have leaky veins. I have religiously used the soma correct for approx 2 years with little or no effect. I have been using verapamil cream (80mg) daily for the past 5 months which has done little or nothing. This is breaking my wallet. The dr advised to try trimix shots very often, such as daily, to see if any positve effect is noted. I am debating on trying this. Been spending over $100 monthly on shots and $50.00 monthly on the verapamil cream for months with poor effects. This month when I saw my urologist he presented me with the last resort... the inflatable penile prothesis. This is the only alternative I have now, and am debating seriously about have the surgery to have it placed. I am very concerned about the length that could be lost and the surgeon advised the most this can be is 1 centimeter (1/2 inch). He explained that most men who have the penile prothesis are older men after having their prostate removed from cancer. The dr advised that having your prostate removed results in a smaller penis, that is why most men who elect to have the prothesis complain of smaller erections (this is mostly due from having the prostate removed). This dr advised of having installed over a thousand of these penile prothesiss', and rarely encounters a problem. He advised most are now lasting from 15 to 20 years with no problems. He said I would probably have to have 2 in my lifetime. He thought I would be happy with the results...he said it made the penis hard as a "brick" when pumped up. He also told me that since I had such good blood in-flow...this would continue, even with the prothesis, for even a better outcome. Oral ed meds, muse, and the soma correct can still be used, if desired. He also mentioned that the suspensatory ligament could be cut during the surgery which results in more penile length, and then placing the prothesis. He said this could result in a slightly longer penis to where no length is lost due to the prothesis, and actually could gain some length...but he warned of it probably no alot. He did not recommend having the suspense ligment cut, stating it can cause further scarring, but advised he does do the surgery. He did advise the penis would not be anchored up during erection anymore, but rather would point more downward during erection. So this is where I am...and is one of the biggest decisions in my life. I would like to hear from someone my age who has had the penis prothesis and their opinion, or anyone who has had the implant. It seems as if literature is limited on the internet about these...never come across many testimonials of people who had these done. If anyone can help me in this endeavor, please do...Thanks....
Will,
A few quick thoughts before I leave. Maybe I read your post to quick but this my input until I reread tomorrow.
Will, you are young and many breakthroughs in ED will hit in the next several years. A prosthesis is forever (maybe, unless some tissue regeneration developments pan out).
Have you tried a constriction ring commonly call a "cock ring" ? That should constrict the veins that are near the surface and allow the arteries to fill the penis. they come in all types. Actis is an adjustable loop that is made for that purpose.
You said,
QuoteHe also told me that since I had such good blood in-flow...this would continue, even with the prosthesis, for even a better outcome. Oral ed meds, muse, and the soma correct can still be used, if desired. He also mentioned that the suspensory ligament could be cut during the surgery which results in more penile length, and then placing the prothesis. He said this could result in a slightly longer penis to where no length is lost due to the prothesis, and actually could gain some length...but he warned of it probably no a lot. He did not recommend having the suspense ligament cut, stating it can cause further scarring, but advised he does do the surgery.
I am no doctor but some of that seems flat wrong. The cavernosa tissue is totally removed to put in a prosthesis. You penis can never fill with blood again. It fills with fluid from the hydraulic pump. It is crazy for him to say you would have good blood flow. The blood flow would have nothing to do with erection. What would you use a soma correct? It could only draw the same fluid the testicle pump pumped into the penis. Unless I know nothing, you could never use ED drugs with an inflatable prosthesis! ED drugs interact with a process to gorge your penis with blood. Your natural blood erection will be totally replaced. Also, there is no need for such drugs for the same reason. You pump saltwater into the balloons inserted into your penis for a rock hard erection (it feels slightly unnatural and not spongy not pliable). I am sure there was a communication breakdown between you and the doctor on a few of these crucial points. There are videos of inflatable prosthesis surgery on the Internet. I will try to find them when I get time if someone does not find them first.
I also think no informed person in your situation would ever consider cutting their ligament.
Will, I agree with Hawk on this. I definitely think you should get a second opinion from another Peyronies specialist, preferably one at a major University Medical Center who is familiar with the latest treatments like the Pentox regimen. Things are moving so very fast in this field, if I were in your shoes, at the age of 35, I DEFINATELY would not choose surgery, at least not until I had pursued every possible alternative, and that means seeing at least one other doc and perhaps even a third. After all this is a very major surgery with a potentially huge psychological impact. Like Hawk, I am not a doctor, but the advice you are getting sounds a little suspect to me. Many top Peyronies specialists are truly surgeons in the real sense of the word. They LIKE to do surgeries. They BELIEVE in the surgical approach. They will not necessarily tell you all of the current options or of options that might be available in the near future like collagenaise. Be VERY careful! You have a long life ahead. Don't make a hasty irreversible decision based on what might turn out to be poor advice from someone who might actually be in a position to profit from your misfortune. Remember, the doctor may be a great specialist, but it is your penis that is going to get remodeled, not his.
- George
This is a doctors website (Eid) that has a long no-holds-barred video of inflatable prosthesis surgery. The website also has pages with still pictures of men after the surgery. I'm just listing the site for information purposes (not promoting or bashing) and as a source of a decent procedure video that seems to load and play properly.
http://www.urologicalcare.com/index.html
Heads up: You might want to grab a glass of wine before viewing this.
I'm about halfway through a book called The Hardness Factor and so far it's very good. I would highly recommend this to anyone suffering from ED. It might not be a cure-all but there's some solid information in there and your overall health will benefit significantly from the recommendations.
Thanks everyone for the support and your replies. And yes, I have tried the Actis Ring numerous times, but it never works. Regarding the penile prothesis surgery, this surgein explained to me the corpus cavernosum is not removed, but rather remains, while the implant is placed. And yes...he did say the cavernosum would be damaged due to scarring from the implant, but would more than likely not be totally destroyed, thus using those ed drugs. Maybe I just misunderstood...this conversation did stress me out. The doctor did mention future therapies. He seems to think gene therapy might not be the way because researchers are having trouble with side effects of gene therapy at this time. he did mention tissue regereration and the growing of new corpus cavernosum, but adviswed this was in its infancy stage.
Will,
You must be able to get an erection with a VED. Is that correct? If it is, how do you feel about going that route and if it is not true could you give some input.
Hawk...I am unable to achieve a good enough erection using the ved for intercoarse. I currectly have the soma correct and when using the smal and medium tube, my penis does fairly well filling up with blood. However, when I use the large cylinder, I can never get enough bloood at the distal end...it is as if a major constriction caused by the Peyronies Disease begins at the middle of the shaft, so very little blood can pass through. This is very noticable now when using the shots...the shots used to give me a normal looking erection, but now, since very little gets to the distal end, it results in a very narrow distal end, and no blood is getting to the head of the penis. It is getting very deformed looking now. Regarding your question about the pump, it just results in a very poor erection. The docotr tells me to try more frequent shots and to start using 200mg of viagra at a time. I am just getting tired of trying, but I want to have a normal relationship with a female as well. This crap is going to break my wallet....
Will:
You do not mention using the retainer ring(s) or retainer of any kind while using the Soma Correct for erections. If you are having trouble holding the erection long enough for intercourse, try using more than one retainer. The instruction manual should give you a choice of options using the rings/retainers.
Suggest that you try this the next time you use the Soma for an erection: Use all three cylinders as if you were doing a Peyronies Disease exercise, but do not pump too much pressure when you first start. After a few cycles of using all three cylinders, remove the A cylinder, pump a few cycles using the B and C, remove the B cylinder and then pump up using only the C cylinder. Work very gently and slowly going through several cycles of pumping up, releasing and repeating until you develop a full erection. When you are satisfied that you are erect enough for intercourse, slide the retainers off the C cylinder onto the penis as close to the body as possible.
You will need to experiment with the retainers until you find the oneones that will hold the erection as long as you need it to for sex, etc. However, remember that you should only leave the retaianer(s) on for no more that 30 minutes at a time.
Will be glad to help you in any way with the VED. Just let me know how I can help and I will be there for you
Regards, Old Man
Try pumping and holding, then release and pump again. You may do this severaltimes. Each time your erection should get better. You may also pump while wearing a ring, and then apply a tighter ring.
Check your instructions and warnings. This is a technique which I have used with some success.
Hello everyone and thanks for the advice. Was wondering if anyone here knew of someone who had the penile prothesis and is happy with the results?
Will,
No one on this forum. I have actually considered it but decided against it.
Old Man probably personally knows one or two prostate cancer patients with it a prosthesis. I am sure he will post.
Will:
Yes, I know of several prostate cancer patients that had implants done after all other things failed for them. One was my mother-in-law's last husband. He had one done several years before he passed away. He was in his late 70s when he had it done. He had exhausted everything else for his ED and after careful consideration, he decided to go ahead with it.
He lived about 6 years after he had it done and was tickled pink with the results. It was the high end implant, I think it was an AMS model 700. It was the three piece one which had the pump in the scrotum, the resevoir in the stomach area and the two "rods" implanted in the corpus areas.
It worked rather well for him and said he would recommend it for anyone with an ED problem. Several others in my prostate cancer support group have had implants done and as far as I know they were well pleased with the outcome. All did, however, state they would only have it done as a last resort.
Hope the above helps. Let me know if I can help further. Give me a PM if you want to discuss anything off line.
Old Man
Hey I'm not really sure what this means, so I thought that I'd mention it here.
I had the nesbit plication procedure about 2 months ago. Then about 4 weeks after the procedure the sutures ruptured. There was some major brusing and pain for a while, then the bruising went away. Now theres just a few bumps, and some pain if I poke them during erections.
And now I can't seem to hold an erection. Getting it isn't too difficult, but if I stop the motion during masturbation, even for less than a second, almost immediately the erection starts to go away, and I have to keep going to maintain the erection. This isn't too big of a deal for masturbation, but it makes taking pictures for the Uroligist extremely difficult. Additionally, I'm a little worried for sexual experiences with women (if I ever get crazy enough to explain this to a girl)
SO if anyone has any ideas that would be sweet.
IrishBoy,
I have that same problem... and I never had surgery. If I stop hand motion on masterbation my erection starts to deplete I've got about a 15 second window and it goes down hill fast and keeps going! I looked into this a little, it has something to do with the tunica and losing elasticity because its not flexible enough to seal off the blood vessels that carry blood into the penis. I'm not doctor but clearly the plaque causes the ED and drainage. All they did with your nesbit is put stitches to even out your penis, this leads me to believe since you are having this ED you still have plaque in there. One reason I don't like the nesbitt is because your not removing the plaque, what if your plaque worsens later? I would be careful and make sure you are letting your penis heal properly.
ComeBackid
Thanks ComeBackid. The only thing that confuses me a little is that I actually don't have Peyronie's. I have congenital curvature so there is no plaque. So it's probably just another problem built into my penis. Any ideas to help this issue?
Irish,
You should become much more aroused with a partner. I am not trying to be snippy. I am being honest. Also, ED drugs may help you gain confidence.
I just got Cialis again after I tried it for the first time right after prostate surgery over a year ago. I'm anxious to see how it works now that I have some function back.
Sweet. That's not snippy. That's exactly what I'd hoped to hear.
I have had Peyronies for a few years and am now experiencing an undesirable side effect. When I first got Peyronies, I would wake up in the middle of the night with a piss hard on that was pointing at my belly button. I would pee in the bathtub because I couldn't hit the toilet. Gradually, I was able to "think away" the erection so that I could use the toilet. Somehow that has generalized to all erections so that I am unable to keep an erection even when I want to. Any advice on how to get the message to my penis to keep some erections and let others go?
Iwmson,
Welcome to the forum. You are among a good group here. Combined, we have the widest range of patient experience on the internet, and some level headed support. I speak pretty plainly so don't misread my remarks as trying to be rude.
I am certain that trying to think away an erection in the middle of the night had absolutely NOTHING to do with your erectile dysfunction. I think you used to get night-time erections (NTE), and now you are a bit older, and maybe have some advance in Peyronies Disease, or an additional medical condition, that is causing erectile dysfunction.
I am curious about how much Viagra you took (100mg, 50mg, 25mg)
Have you ever tried anything else for ED such as a constriction band, VED, any other ED drugs or supplements. Have you had a physical lately since ED can be a symptom of several medical disorders that require attention. Do you have any heart trouble?
I get a terrible headache from ED meds. I was able to reduce my dosage to 25 mg. I can control the headache with OTC analgesics and I do get the benefit to an extent.
I have not tried Cialis in a while (over a year). I was going to try it this weekend, but a stomach virus got me. I'm better now. I just don't want to interfere with work (I mean the headache ;) ). The first time I took it was right after prostate surgery. Nothing happened......Nothing, including side effects. I am hoping now to get the good benefits without the headache.
BTW, I do get a headache from Levitra that last 24 hours.
Before I found out I had to have prostate surgery, I was considering sinus surgery. I suspect, after a little research into the matter, sinus trouble and pressure headaches may be related. I am strongly considering options for my sinus. I can see it now. I'll tell the doc, "You have to operate on my nose so I can have sex again!" ;D
lwmson,
Your goal of keeping some erections while making others go away is nearly impossible. You can attempt to think of things that would make an erection go away, but it won't happen immediately. Did you get diagnosed with peyronies? The peeing was a problem for me to, especially at night when one is groggy and tired, sometimes you may have to angle your body differently depending how bad your curve is, this is what I had to do. Boy I wish I had a urinal at my house, would make things so much easier at times :o
Boys you got it all wrong. Get as far away from the toilet as you can, turn so you aim the curve in the right direction, and let it fly. If you don't hear the water splash...adjust as you go. Blame any mess on the dog. It's more exciting that way.
...or if your too afraid..you have a bath tub for a reason ;-)
Irish
Always available, unless you have close neighbors. ;)
Hey guys:
A personal urinal like used in hospitals works great with bends/curves. Just make sure you adjust the angle to coincide with your angles!! It also avoids "accidents" of spraying or wetting the floor or bath mats!!
Old Man
See my ingenious solution on the Light Side topic. It is the best so far.
Gents, this is my first time posting here - I used to post on the old "law of the jungle" forum.
I'm 35 and I've had Peyronies Disease since 2002. Started with pain and a 30 degree bend. After about a month, the bend released and the pain stopped. I was using TV, but I don't really think that's what did it - I think it was probably the natural progression of the disease in my case.
Since that time, the "permanent" damage seems to be at the distal (head) end. Most of the unit fills completely, but the head end doesn't get as hard as it should anymore. I'm still functional, thank God, but it does make me a little self consciouse.
I no longer have hard plaques (they disappeared along with the bend), but I can feel a fibrous lump or band deep down in the unit, seemingly right in the middle, between the two corpus. I am sure this is what's impairing blood flow to the head. I can squeaze blood into the head and it will get hard, but it doesn't stay there for any time.
I've used a VED, and while it did give me back the length I lost from Peyronies Disease (about a half-inch), it hasn't done anything for the lack of firmness in the head. I know I could use the band/ring, but I just don't want to have to explain why I'm using it, and frankly, I'm not sure my partners even notice this problem as much as I do.
Just wondering if anyone else has this problem. I do consider myself lucky, because I know some of you guys are dealing with a much more severe case. I'm just trying to see who shares my impairement.
Thanks,
Nemo
Welcome Nemo, I had a similar problem, but a concerted attack with supplements has brought me back to nearly normal. At one point the very end of my penis beneath the glans was almost spongy in consistency during erections, now it gets nearly as hard as the rest of the penis. What has worked best for me is 'full spectrum' Vitamin E. Lots of it. I am currently taking 2000IU per day. That level depletes Vitamin K which results in bleeding problems, so I am also supplementing generously with Vitamin K (hard to find, but available). That level of E also can cause LDL oxidation issues, so I am also supplementing with 6-8g per day of time release Vitamin C. Finally that level of Vitamin C can cause oxidation issues of its own so I am taking OPCs/Pycnogynol/Resveratrol to deal with that issue. Pretty complex, but it has worked well for me in gradually knocking out the plaques. Also, I am also expecting good results from Ginkgo, but be sure to get a brand that guarantees a safe level of gingkolic acid. Ginkgo also can cause bleeding problems by affecting platelets, so I also take Rutin which strengthens blood vessels and capillaries. This also takes plenty of persistence, but fortunately, none of these supplements are terribly expensive and I have found them quite cost effective for the results I have been able to achieve.
- George
Irish,
Can you tell me the before and after for you surgery? I'm thinking of have this done also I have a 90 degree curve was just wondering on how much it inproved for you. I know evryone is diffrent but would like to know the outcome.
are you happy with the results?
thank for your input.
Jtl4661
Um we talking over all or just regarding erectile dysfunction?
In erectile dysfunction it's actually made things better/harder lol. I lost almost an inch from the surgery(Nesbit-Plication), but the same amount of blood is sent to the penis so it's harder than ever (and that's just with "personal stimulation"). The only negative is a lack of morning wood, and random erections. I think that my subconcious is still afraid of them due to the pain they caused immediately following surgery. But when I want the erection there's no issue.
But if your talking about like overally result, my opinion on it that's a totally different story.
I need to report some good news. I wrote a few weeks ago with an ED problem that I had not experienced prior to Peyronnies. I had gotten sick and tired of a lousy sex life and decided to do something about it. I firmly believed that I had "thought" myself into ED just like Dr. Ruth says you can "worry" yourself into ED. I was constantly programming my penis to get soft so that I could use indoor plumbing. Since I wrote, I have programmed myself out of ED. I have had a dozen hard erections and none of them has gone limp. I even had to piss in the tub last night (a problem I am glad to have back because I once again have my useful tool back).
I think that this shows that some of the ED associated with Peyronie's Disease can be considered "psychological", and not physiological. This is why giving such things a bit of time, and seeking professional help are worth doing, as well as seeing if one's own thinking is so negative as to "proram" failure into the equation.
Sadly, for many of us, it is also a fact of Peyronies Disease that our erections are not as firm or longlasting anymore.
Tim
I was wondering if any members with the hinge or buckling symptoms have ever had any substantial improvements in condition. My main concern with this hinge problem is drastic ED. Specifically what medicines were helpful with it? My hinge developed suddenly and seems to be the main symptom of my case, as I can feel no palpable plaque anywhere? To the best of anyone's knowledge, is the hinge some sort of plaque or scar tissue that simply wraps all the way around the tunica? Does it seem likely for this type of scar tissue damage to develop over a few day period. My hinge could be best described as a making the penis feel floppy, and the whole penis flattens out if I rest my finger on the underside of it near the base. I am currently trying pentox and arginine, but would appreciate any of thoughts on the progression of the hinge symptoms or possible treatments.
Getting blood back to the hinged area would seem to be a good thing. In that case the VED would be the tool of choice. This is just my opinion. I bet OLd Man would support it.
Liam
"Bringing Peyronie's Disease Out of the Dark Ages
Mark M. Newell Ph.D.
This year the American population reached the 300 million mark. The event occurs at a time when American and global medical science is making advances in technology and treatments that were simply unimaginable as little as twenty years ago. Yet, as most patients seeking care enjoy 21st century medicine, there is a significant portion of the American population – perhaps as many as 30,000,000 men, who have a condition that is largely, and erroneously, considered untreatable. The level of care most of these men receive is not much advanced from that given in the Sixteenth Century when the condition was first recorded! ..."
http://www.peyroniesassociation.org/staying_informed/commentary.php
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=17402321&query_hl=2
Isr Med Assoc J. 2007 Mar;9(3):143-6. Related Articles, Links
Plasmid-based gene transfer for treatment of erectile dysfunction and overactive bladder: results of a phase I trial.
Melman A, Bar-Chama N, McCullough A, Davies K, Christ G.
Department of Urology, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Bronx, NY 10461, USA. amelman@aecom.yu.edu
BACKGROUND: Ion Channel Innovations has developed a gene transfer product, hMaxi-K, and has begun clinical trials to investigate the effect of increased expression of Maxi-K channels in the smooth muscle of the penis or bladder in patients with erectile dysfunction and those with overactive bladder. The primary function of K channels is to modulate Ca++ influx through Ca-channels (i.e., L-type, voltage-dependent). The amount of Ca++ that enters the cell through these channels is a major determinant of the free intracellular calcium levels inside the smooth muscle cell, which in turn determines the degree of smooth muscle cell contraction. Increased Maxi-K channel activity is associated with smooth muscle cell relaxation, resulting in, for example, penile erection and detrussor muscle relaxation. A phase I clinical trial that used hMaxi-K has been completed and a similar trial to assess safety of the transfer for overactive bladder is about to begin. OBJECTIVES: To assess the safety and tolerability of escalating hMaxi-K doses by clinical evaluations and laboratory tests, and to measure efficacy objectives by means of the International Index of Erectile Function scale. METHODS: In the erectile dysfunction trial 11 patients with moderate to severe erectile dysfunction were given a single-dose corpus cavernosum injection of hMaxi-K, a "naked" DNA plasmid carrying the human cDNA encoding for the gene for the alpha, or pore-forming, subunit of the human smooth muscle Maxi-K channel, hSlo. Three patients each were given 500, 1000, and 5000 pg and two patients were given 7500 microg doses of hMaxi-K and followed for 24 weeks. Patient responses were validated by partner responses. RESULTS: There were no serious adverse events and no dose-related adverse events attributed to gene transfer for any patient at any dose or study visit. No clinically significant changes from baseline were seen in physical evaluations (general and genitourinary), hematology, chemistry and hormone analyses, or in cardiac events evaluated by repeated electrocardiograms. Importantly, no plasmid was detected in the semen of patients at any time after the injections. Patients given the two highest doses of hMaxi-K had apparent sustained improvements in erectile function as indicated by improved IIEF-EF domain scores over the length of the study. One patient given 5000 microg and one given 7500 microg reported EF category improvements that were highly clinically significant and were also maintained through the 24 weeks of study. CONCLUSIONS: Efficacy conclusions cannot be drawn from results of a phase 1 trial with no control group. However, the promising primary safety outcomes of the study and preliminary indications of effectiveness provide evidence that hMaxi-K gene transfer is a viable approach to the treatment of erectile dysfunction and other smooth muscle diseases with targeted access.
Publication Types:
Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't
PMID: 17402321 [PubMed - in process]
Hello everybody
First of all ,to state my case :I am 33 years old and unfortunately single,and have a pretty bad case of Peyronies Disease ,lots of areas with fibrosis, in a kind of "diffuse pattern". as a result ,I can't keep an erecion without a constant manual stimulation (and shrinkage as well).I have to say my Peyronies Disease started ,not similar to many other cases,with a sound of a "click" ,coming from below my left testicle during sex.from that time ,every time I masturbated I got kind of a strange feeling ,sometimes painfull ,below this testicle and soetimes along the penis.
My questions for you guys :
1.As I have a severe venous leak due to my Peyronies Disease ,does anyone of you ever heard of anything to enable sex in this condition ? I have heard opposite opinions regarding the VED : some said it may be helpful and some claimed it may cause more damage.
2.regarding the pentox - is it similar to the aspirin ? or even stronger ?
Has the Pentox ever brought about serious progress in ED ? if not , so what's the point to use it ? and do you know if it may be dangerous or not ?
Do you have any positive news about emerging new solutions coming up soon ?
3.How do you guys (the single young guys of you...) ,have managed to cope with the sharp change in your abilities and thus your lifestyle such as no more hooking at the bars or talking with the girls in each cafe place like I used to do ?
How did you manage to overcome the fear while trying to date with a new girlfriend with the new sexual condition - meaning the ED? how did it go with the sex ?
Thanks alot for helping
Constriction bands (penis ring) may prolong erection and allow for sexual relations.
No, aspirin and "pentox" are different. Aspirin is an NAID and pentox is a Xanthine.
Pentox has had some success in studies done. There are more studies being conducted. Use the search on this site. There has been a TON written on this subject.
Welcome Back.
Liam
This may seem like a question out of frustration, but here it goes. I've read as much as I can about the venous leak or (veno-occlusive disorder) and I can't seem to find any indication that people have ever improved from this condition. I know that ED which is caused from arterial hardening can sometimes be cured if physical fitness is greatly improved, and plaque that is damaging the arteries reverses. I'm just wondering whats the deal with the venous leak. It seems like the worst side effect from the peyronie's, that I have experienced. Somehow the plaque in the penis tissue is interferring with the expansion of the tissue, which doesn't allow the veins to pinch off. This makes the blood that rushes to the penis leak out faster than it should, so an erection never gets completely hard, and dies quickly without constant stimulation. I'm wondering if it should be possible for this type of condition to ever improve, albeit slowly over time, if the internal plaque somehow resolves. I have been contemplating a traction device to improve the slight curvature and major size loss, and read that Dr. Levine is conducting a clinical study on the device that seems promising. I'm just wondering if a traction device theoretically could improve venous leak erectile dysfunction. Just hypothesizing, if the device really does induce penile tissue growth from the constant tension, that new tissue should be free from plaque and healthy. Wouldn't that new healthy tissue maybe increase the ratio of elastic tissue to scar tissue enough to improve ED? I feel like i'm pulling at strings, but I'm trying to stay positive and look for possible leads.
I know Levine is recommending the FastSize device, and the European studies used a device made by the SizeGenetics company (not 100% sure). Anybody have recommendations between these two?
Just speculating, the traction may reshape the plaque, elongating and thinning it. It seems plausible the ED could improve under these circumstances. However, it could get worse or not change at all. I am doubtful about regrowing new tissue, although, I don't discount it altogether.
I have convinced myself to try using mine again. I have a $50.00 Ebay special. I may break down and buy a fancy one. The noose is the part that is the most uncomfortable.
We live in the gray area.
Liam
Pain,
You ask some good questions. I share some of your ignorance on these issues. In fact I really question if anyone has in-depth complex answers to the complexity of ED issues. I do have some thoughts and a few things I think I know.
Venous leakage: It seems clear to me that venous leakage could be the result of at least a few different situations, each with a somewhat different solution. I think the first thing we need is a clear, complete definition of venous leakage and its several causes. Generally it only means that blood flows out of the penis as fast or faster than it flows in. Since normal erection results from nitric oxide relaxing the arteries and allowing blood to rapidly flow into the penis, and since this enlargement is really what squeezes the veins and further seals them off, how much of your ED is really venous leakage? How much of it is really reduced arterial inflow? The very fact that stimulation causes the process to work, makes me conclude that you have no venous leakage that is the result of plaque that is preventing veins from being squeezed. You have no valve issues in the veins (I am not sure valves are ever a factor in venous leakage ED). Under stimulation, the entire process works.
This tells me that possibly you have a normal cascading series of events that goes something like:
Stimulation cause a barely adequate flow of blood to start an erection.
The veins get put under enough pressure to reduce outflow and you get more of an erection.
When the physical stimulation stops, the psychological stimulation is not adequate to maintain in flow.
Your erection reduces
Your anxiety level pushes more adrenalin (strong vaso-constricting erection killer) in to your blood.
The inflow reduces more and the veins are now decompressed to speed the outflow as the inflow reduces.
Your psychological distraction from sex (evaluating your erection, thinking of peyronies), and your adrenalin producing anxiety, probably contribute to undermining the process from beginning to end.
Now, ... I could be full of crap, but I for one cannot come up with any other theory that adequately explains your scenario and until I hear one, this is where I cast my vote.
Solutions:
Reduce anxiety thus reducing adrenalin
Assist arterial dilation with a minimal dose of an ED drug (Viagra, Cialis, Levitra, HGW, Arginine) in some combination.
Reduce outflow with a constriction ring.
Remember, just because a constriction ring works does not mean you have scar tissue causing the veins to leak. It often just means that it gives the slow arterial inflow time to catch up and stay ahead of the process.
Also consider that is can loosely be said that we all have venous leakage every time every erection goes down. That is not due to scar tissue placing support around the vein that prevents its constriction however.
Traction Devices I have read contrary opinions on whether stretching scar tissue on burn victims actually causes the tissue to stretch via producing more cells or via stretching the existing cells and making them thinner. it seems that this would be easy for experts to investigate and solve. If it has not been solved then we also do not know which of these penis traction and the VED may do. That is key to speculating on your traction and new tissue question.
Interesting new research:
http://www.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=605057 (http://www.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=605057)
This question will be mainly for those members of the forum with organic ED as a result of peyronie's or old age (old man!). Let me start by saying, that after having a duplex penile ultrasound, I was diagnosed with having arterial insuffiency and a venous leak as a result of the priapism trauma I experienced. The doctor rejected peyronie's even though I have new curvature in the flaccid and erect state now. Mixed ED was the diagnosis, and I only partially respond to PDE5 inhibitors. The thing is, since the incident, my sex drive has been minimal or nonexistant. I'll try to be as specific as possible, but I hope I don't offend anyone with the details. Prior to the injury, when I would fantasize about sex, or see an attractive female, it seemed like my penis somehow would send signals more easily to my brain. My sex drive was raging, and it felt like I couldn't orgasm enough. Now, its impossible for me to attain an erection just "thinking" about sex or looking at an attractive female. Sex also no longer seems like the greatest urge to live for anymore. Its still pleasurable, but I no longer feel like the young guy who thinks about sex 24 hours a day. For some reason, I feel like there exists some kind of connection between having a healthy penis and having a strong libido. This is where I would like people who have been living with real ED to try and retort here. Specifically, guys on the forum who have had a prostatectomy and had their sexual nerves damaged!!! I feel like the priapism damaged some of my nerves, because I'm just not responding to sexual inputs normally anymore. Does having your penile nerves damaged change the way you think about sex, or your sex drives. If it hasn't affected anyone elses's drive or libido, perhaps I'm just experiencing some sort of depressive slump that is affecting my drive. But at the same time, I just think when you can't get an erection at will anymore, something that changes your physical body that much has to have an impact on your mental states as well. Either way, I appreciate everyone's input.
PainIsGrowth:
You are asking questions that have been around for many decades. I had a non-nerve sparing radical prostatectomy in 1995 since my prostate gland was very large. Cancer tumors covered about 75 percent of the total gland and had a very high overall cancer score. Surgery was the only viable option for me.
I had always had a very high libido all my life until the surgery. Of course, the first thought I had was that my "total sex life" was gone forever. Emotions were running very high and that also contributed to my inability to even get an erection even with the penile injections. So, the VED was added to my regimen and so far it works well for any and all sex.
Anyway, I am relating the above, (your should go back on the Peyronies Disease history thread and read the background for myself and others on this subject), so that you will not feel that you are alone with this problem. My best advice to you is to slow down, calm down your emotions and get a grip of what is happening in your case. Emotions can be very damaging to one's ego and personal life.
Now, with all that said, you should get the best medical help and follow the advice of the professionals who see your first hand. Give them the benefit of the doubt and accept their advice and try to follow it. I am not saying just blindly do that, but make sure you are getting the best pro advice.
Will be glad to discuss any problems further as they arise. Do wish you luck in your endeavor to satisfy your needs physicially.
Regards, Old Man
Pain (a better abbreviation than PIG ;) )
I had a nerve sparing prostatectomy but many of my nerves were still lost. That coupled with Peyronies Disease has left me with pretty significant ED. For clarification however you made the following quote:
Quote....guys on the forum who have had a prostatectomy and had their sexual nerves damaged
No "sexual" nerves are involved. They are simply nerves that control arterial dilation when signaled by the brain. They have no direct impact on sensation, orgasm, or desire. Having said that, ED and Peyronies Disease can have a significant psychological impact. Immediately after my prostatectomy when I was certain I would regain full function within 24 months, my desire, sexual activity, sensation, and drive were unaffected by the ED. As that time period came and went, I developed Peyronies Disease in addition to the persistent ED. At that point a pessimistic resolution to a permanent condition began to erode my drive and desire. There is also a clear "use it or lose it" component. If you surrender to sexual withdrawal an escalating cycle begins.
As an added point, an erection in itself becomes part of a positive cycle with sexual thoughts resulting in an erection, the erection then leading to more vivid sexual thoughts, and the erection even being very sensitive to minor tactile sensations such as normal movement, clothing, etc.
There is nothing wrong with realizing you are not in craving NEED of continual sex. If you want to maintain desire however, You must work through the psychological aspects of ED and deliberately make the move to start the cycle with physical stimulation. IE: Use it or lose it
Quote from: Hawk on June 10, 2007, 10:17:21 PM
IE: Use it or lose it
or as the kids say these days: find some strange. ;)
And I've said it before, and it's been reinforced a number of times,for the most part, provided you can maintain an erection enough for intercourse, women aren't turned off by it. Honestly, I've been told by one of my female acquaintances that she had no idea until I told her. Just thought I was shaped a little differently. Now there are some out there will act like a bitch if you're not sporting a baseball bat in your trousers, but they're not worth giving a moments concern over.
I just got a prescription for trazadone to help with NTE's. I have read through most of the posts on it, and unanimously it appears to be the best drug for healthy nightime erections. Whats the longest amount of time anyone has been on it? The priapism really scares me a bit, but I think there is greater risk if I don't get strong erections at night. I have been trying full dose 20mg cialis, and that probably takes me to a 5 on whatever that erection scale is for NTE's. Its super frustrating to have ED meds only work so so, and cost 10 bucks a pop. The thing is, how safe do you think it is to take a pde5 inhibitor at the same time you are taking nightly trazadone, assuming you need one for a relationship? Also, I read the theories that strong oxygenization through healthy NTE's can balance out the collagen/elastic ratio, and keep the penile tissues healthy. But, has anyone who went from not getting good erections, then to using trazadone and getting great NTE's, seen any positive change in the appearance or feel of their penis? Did it get to the point where you didn't need PDE5 inhibitors? Thanks for the great advice on my past post guys. I appreciate all of it.
Try 25 mg Viagra (not instead of trazadone). You can cut a 100 mg in fourths. Cheaper and works for me. I have organic ED (much improved) from prostate surgery complicated by Peyronies Disease. They hit at the same time. OUCH! I started a nightly 25mg dose before bed and woke up with an erection the first night. It may also work for the intended purpose even at this dose.
When combining meds, its always best to check with your doctor and pharmacist.
Here is a symptom I have experienced with peyronie's that I have not heard mentioned much on the forum. When I achieve an erection with manual stimulation now, it is very wobbly at the base, and much less firm in the crural region. If I clentch my PC and BC muscles I can keep it at center mast and firm temporarily, but it becomes extremely flexible and wobbly as soon as I let up the clentch. Is this just a normal part of Erectile dysfunction, or is this plaque buildup in the lower crural region? Even when I am at my maximal erection, the base part of the penis is completely bendable, and it never used to be like this. Thrusting would be extremely difficult becuase it feels like there is nothing supporting the base.
Second, this will probably sound strange to those who still get the feeling, but when I achieve and erection now, I don't get that erectical like sensation that usually proceeds a normal erection. Its hard to describe in more specific scientific terms, but it used to feel like a tingly electrical rush of blood that no longer occurs during an erection and while the erection is maintained. Would the reason for this be do to the venous leak I have been diagnosed with, or could it just be the smooth muscles cells are no longer relaxing the way they used to? If someone who can only achieve an erection with a VED and tension ring is reading this, or other guys who have used a VED just for therapy, maybe its the same feeling achieving an erection in that manner. It just doesn't feel as good, no other way to describe it. Finally, if anyone has had the wobbly erection problem, and gotten over it over time, please let me know how you did it.
I found that 25 mg of trazadone did not do much for me. Viagra has helped with ED, but at the cost of headache. I have done well with cialis for intercourse without the side effects of viagra. I have found that the regular intake of horny goat weed at a fairly high dose (7 capsules at bedtime) helps with sex and NTE both. I like the HGW the best of all.
Tim
Tim,,i used to have the bad headaches with viagra and runny nose and all that stuff, but i found after about 2 to 3 yrs all those symptoms stopped..I've been using viagra now for about 9 and a half years and i don't have any side effects at all anymore.....I also tried useing cialis and levitra and i liked those also, but have just stuck with the viagra because i think it works better for me....I think when i switch it will be to levitra....
Tim, with the nerve damage in my intestines from having a parasite a couple of years ago,,do you think the Horny Goat weed might be an irratant? I would like to give it a try as i don't have any ins anymore to get viagra or levitra and would like to go with something natural anyway's.
Also, i tried the trazadone and it didn't do much for me either but put me in a fog every morning when i woke up,,,,,it did make me sleep well tho....
PainIsGrowth,,,,,,I know exactly what you are talking about,,loosing that feeling i called a tingling in the groin's,,,,,Mine stopped because of low testosterone....I don't know your age, but mine went away when i hit my 50's,,,,my testosterone went from a healthy 800 down to a level of 200 which is very low,,,,,I went on the testosterone patch and it helped real well,,," made me so horny, i couldn't stand my self,,doc had to lower the dose "......The feeling did come back after awhile, not as strong but it's there, so be patient...
Kimo
Kimo, I have had no upset stomach-ache from HGW at all. I have used a fair amount too. I use Nature's Bounty, which has MACA added (which exerts a testosterone like effect, but not at all noticable by me). The HGW content is 500 mg, and the active incredient, icariin is at 10%. Since the biologic equivalency of icariin to viagra is something like 10=15%, I figured that each capsule is something like 5 mg of viagra - so I have tried up to ten capsules at a time.
The effect was not as striking as viagra (which at 100 mg causes a very hard erection, and at 50 mg works a bit less well), but there were few side effects. I was a little stuffy in my nose, had no headache, and tolerated the dose well.
I now take 5 to 7 capsules daily as a supplement most in the evening. I have noted that my NTE's are pretty good and my sexuality is a lot less stressed than before I tried anything (I had a fair amount of anxiety about erectile quality). So overall HGW is cheap and works well for me. I may yet try a higher dose - I go up cautiously when I try higher doses.
Tim
Quote"The supposition for centuries was that oysters, clams and mussels have been thought to have aphrodisiac properties," said researcher George Fisher, a professor of chemistry from Barry University, in Miami Shores, Fla. "And they were eaten raw for that purpose."
Until recently, there was no scientific basis for that belief, Fisher added. But what he and his colleagues have discovered is that mussels, clams and oysters contain compounds that have been shown to be effective in releasing sexual hormones such as testosterone and estrogen. These compounds are D-aspartic acid and NMDA (N-methyl-D-aspartate).
Source: http://health.msn.com/centers/mensexualhealth/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100101156
This is an outline of everything to do with ED. WOW!!! Too big to post.
http://faculty.washington.edu/momus/PB/impotenc.htm
Found this while poking around the FDA site regarding Edex injections. It is a pdf file and hard to copy and paste. Look at pages 13 and 14 in particular.
"Local Adverse Reactions Reported by >1% of Patients"
http://www.fda.gov/medwatch/safety/2006/Jun_PIs/Edex_PI.pdf
n = 1065
n/%
Penile angulation - 72 (7)
Penile fibrosis - 52 (5)
Cavernous body fibrosis - 20 (2)
Peyronie's disease - 11 (1)
Total 15%
Dr. Rose has more than data on erectile dysfunction:
http://faculty.washington.edu/momus/PB/tableofc.htm
Hi guys,
Liam, following your post of June 10th, I was wondering:
I'm not a really sex-driven person and I guess the less you use it, the more prone you are to get ED in the long run (ie, your "use it or lose it" motto) and as I told you before, I can perform sex and watch TV at the same time (well, not really, it's a way of speaking :)) . I had this problem since the start, (very frustrating sex life) and now I see that if I'm really "hard as rock" aroused, I get more pleasure, so maybe I have some ED problem (my nocturnal erections are not always convincing to me too)...
And in the past 2-3 years, I just can't masturbate (in order to "use it") without visual stimulation (xxx movies, you know what I mean ::)). If I try, I feel nothing and can't get a proper erection. Younger I could do this with only "thoughts", (mmm, the good old days) now, only with movies...
Could this be ED symptoms, or is it just because I have low sensitivity with my toy...
Also I usually can do it "only once", don't feel the urge for a second shot, and the next morning I usually feel as if I've run a marathon... :-\
What do you think?
Maybe I should see a sexologist for the low sexual desire, at the same time as a urologist specialised in Peyronies Disease... ???
Also, are there natural supplements that I can take (no viagra or cialis for me now, I'm still too stubborn to start using these drugs) which WON'T HAVE SIDE EFFECTS ( :D :D I said it this time) on my testosterone level if I stop using them??
I know you're not doctors, but the doctors I asked are just laughing at me and want to prescribe conventional drugs... I want supplements to increase sex drive and erection firmness (can't be hard enough, right? ;)). God I'm ashamed to ask such questions...
Hello evrybody,
I don't know if i post in the good section, i'm french so quite complicated for me to understand evrything about the functionnement of the forum. (sorry if my english is not exellent too).Hope you will understand and be able to help me because i have a problem since 6 months that makes me mad.
I was given this adress of forum on another one which was about sexual exhaustion, i was told maybe here you could help me because my problem deals with fibrous tissus in erectile tissue that leads me to total impotence at the age of 25.(even if it doesnt sound like a typical peyronies disease in my case)
I just make a copy of what i sent on the other forum, (sorry if it's a little long)
I try to sum up: i'm 25 and have never had any sexual problem before , evrything was ok .
Evrtyhing started in February 2007, i had a little urinary problem and a sensation of cold in penis , it was diagnosed as a cysticis. Doctor gave me antibiotics for that.
During this time i had 3 intercourses in a night with a girl, with complete and hard erection , as usually, but the erection was with a lack of sensitivity and sensation (probably because of cysticis or antibiotics) .During the 3rd intercourse, the girl was on me and did a wrong lateral move, it hurted me on penis. But we could finish the intercourse. I didn't have any big haematoma or change of color of penis on the moment, just a pain.
I thouht it was nothing but the following days, it was still paintful ,then the loss of sensation and sentivity in penis increased a lot, my glan was totaly cold, and finally 2 weeks after, i lost ALL my erections (morning erections, night erections, reflex erections with girlfriend, etc, etc, i became totally impotent so young).
My penis size also teribly decreased (i had good size before the problem), penis shrunk and changed of form.
I could'nt have no more erection, so no sexual relation, and totally lost my sexual life.
I consulted some specialists who said it would go better, it was not serious, or said crap things (prostatisis, problem of pudendal nerve, etc etc) .
I made a penis echo doppler (for vascularisation of penis) and blood analyses which were normal.
I tried to take viagra or cialis, and saw thanks to the provoked erection ( by viagra or cialis), that my penis was now deformed (curvature on right side), really really smaller, there is a loss of elasticity in erectile tissues, as if corpus cavernosa couldn't grow up as before. The sides of my penis are now very hard and paintful, with no elasticity.
The last doctor i saw thinks i had a shock on tunica albuginea during the intercourse in February and sadly, the scar healing went in bad way, and made a scar tissue on erectile tissue, and that condamns erection!!! According to him, i have a fibrosis of erectile tissues!!And he can't do anything apparently. All that for that. Now i don't trust doctors anymore, and have really dark ideas.
I retried several sexual relations with viagra last month, but nothing is like before now, it's horible , and medicine seems to have no solution.
Nowadays , i have a very probably a fibrosis of erectile tissues of tunica albuginea.
Symptoms are:
-totally impotent
-loss of sensitivity and sensation in penis
-with viagra or cialis, erection isn't 'normal', with no elasticity, penis just becomes hard and paintful. Moreover the size is really smaller than before, and there is a little curvation on right side.
-at flaccid state, there is a torsion at basis of the penis. Moreoever, i can't stretch the penis when i pull on it (as if it was totally fibrosed).
-if i take medicine for erection, as soon as the penis becomes just a little hard, i have like a seminal liquid who goes out from urethra.
-when i touch my penis, the basis can blow up, but the middle is totally thin, like 'retracted'.
-my ejaculation doesn't go out strongly, in 'eject' and big quantity like before, but just like a small liquid which flows out without any force, and so without real orgasm, and i can't control the moment when it will flow (contrary to before).
- to finish, i have a sensation of 'dead penis', my sexual life is totaly destroyed, my man's life too, i am now in depression because of all that.
So it's like a damaged penis which didn't scared well, and that makes erectile tissue don't work.
Ok sorry for this long explanation.
Doctors don't told me i had a peyronie's disease, coz it's not a typical way to happen, my curvature is not so huge, and i was told it was quite rare to become totally impotent in one month because of a peyronies disease. Moreover at flaccid state, its visible that the form of penis changed and that i lost elasticity, but they didn't feel any nodule. (but not sure they are competent).
My questions are (because your forums seem to be really more developed and better that french ones):
1)has anyone here already have a problem like mine?
2)Do you know if there is a way to recover from impotence (vaccuum, hypertermia, etc,) in this precise case? (in fact my goal isnt to have non natural erections to have sexual intercourse, coz i tried that and its horrible now, the penis has become so hard that it hurts, the size has become to small, and i have no more pleasure, but my goal is to know if there is a way to 'destroy' a fibrous scar tissue in tunica albuginea, and to recover natural erections and size, even if its long, coz i not, i dont see the interest to stay like that from the age of 25 to the end of my life)
3)in the USA do you have any real oral treatment for this type of fibrosis tissue ? (fish oil, vitamine E , etc)
4)do you know if any radiologic test can preceisely show a fibrosis inside penis?
Thanks a lot to have taken time to read me, if anybody can help me or advice me, thanks... Hope my englis is clear.
Antony
Dear Antony,
First off, I am really sorry that you have gone through such a terrible and frustrating experience. It sounds simply awful.
I cannot diagnose you over the internet, but it sounds like you have a BIG problem. My next post will be a reprint of a JAMA article on managing and evaluating erectile dysfunction - you may get some ideas from it. Also, there is an article referenced in the "Surgery" section that I posted that was written by a French surgeon. He MAY be a good person to go see.
It sounds like you have developed diffuse fibrosis in response to a non-specific injury. It sounds similar to what might happen to the corora cavernosa and tunica when one develops priapism (prolonged painful erection). In priapism, one potential outcome is development of a penis such as you describe (interestingly, that is not always the outcome of priapism - why not?).
You really need a very good evaluation. The ultrasound needs to be done with an injection of the penis with PGE2 to induce a firm erection (as firm as you can get). Then, the blood flow can be evaluated better. If there is evidence of fibrosis. I think that you would be a good candidate for going on Pentox, viagra (or vialis) and arginine for a LONG time (ie 2-3 years) to see if you can reverse this process. The diffuse fibrosis after priapism has been successfully treated in this way.
Finally, if you have a bad outcome (meaning erectile dysfunction and a densely fibrotic penis that does not heal), you wuold be a good candidate for a penile implant WITH grafting. See the reference below. Remember that although it is frightening to think of such things, it should remind you that at the end of this process, you should have back your sexuality - one way or another.
Tim
JAMA. 2004;291:2994-3003.
INTRODUCTION
DR BURNS: Mr G is a 66-year-old man with a history of hypertension and sleep apnea. He lives in a suburb of Boston with his wife and has commercial indemnity insurance.
Mr G first developed erectile dysfunction (ED) several years ago. Four months ago when he saw his primary care physician for a routine checkup, he asked about using sildenafil (Viagra). He noted decreased libido and difficulty attaining an erection. He had slight urinary urgency, but no difficulty initiating urination. He had no history of diabetes or cardiovascular disease. In the past, he had used a dental device to treat his sleep apnea but was no longer using one. His other past medical history was a colonic adenoma found on a screening colonoscopy in 2001. His medications were aspirin (81 mg daily), hydrochlorothiazide (12.5 mg daily), and ibuprofen (600 mg 4 times a day as needed). His wife had metastatic breast cancer and was doing well with maintenance therapy. He was working part-time and noted considerable stress due to a home renovation project.
On physical examination his blood pressure was 150/90 mm Hg; his heart rate was 76/min; his lungs were clear to auscultation; and his heart had regular rate and rhythm without murmurs, rubs, or gallops. The abdomen was soft and nontender, without organomegaly. Genitourinary examination revealed small soft testicles and a smooth firm prostate that was minimally enlarged without nodules. His pulses were bilaterally intact.
Laboratory evaluation for secondary causes of ED included the following values: prolactin (4.9 µg/L [reference range, 2-20 µg/L]), thyroid-stimulating hormone (1.7 mIU/mL [reference range, 0.27-4.2 mIU/mL]), total testosterone (505 ng/dL [17.5 nmol/L]; reference range, 270-1100 ng/dL [9.4-38.2 nmol/L]), free testosterone (1.0 ng/dL [0.03 nmol/L]; reference range, 1.5-3.5 ng/dL [0.05-0.12 nmol/L]), and prostate-specific antigen (PSA) (1.4 ng/mL [reference range, 0-4 ng/mL]).
Atenolol (25 mg daily) was added to improve his blood pressure control. He was given a prescription for sildenafil (50 mg to take as directed).
Two months later, Mr G was seen at a follow-up examination. At that visit, his blood pressure was well controlled with hydrochlorothiazide (12.5 mg) and atenolol (25 mg). He noticed no change in his sexual difficulties with the addition of atenolol. Mr G stated that after reading the patient information sheet about potential adverse effects of sildenafil, he decided not to take the medication. His primary care physician suggested that he see an endocrinologist or urologist about beginning testosterone replacement. Mr G is concerned about the potential adverse effects of testosterone therapy. He wonders about the pros and cons of the different treatment options for male sexual dysfunction.
MR G: HIS VIEW
I'm not quite sure if it started when my wife was getting sick, but that's when it became more noticeable. Not the same desire, and physically it changed. The erection wasn't there. It becomes an embarrassment. That's how I felt about it. So you know, I really didn't say anything. I never investigated it. Maybe I'm from the old school that's very private. But the only thing that I ever knew that they would do is the implants, the Viagra [sildenafil], or the testosterone.
I think Viagra and the testosterone need to be better explained. It seems like they're always putting a mystery to it. The side effects can be a lot worse than what people tell you. They'll say, with Viagra, 10% of the people may have this side effect. But if you're among those 10%, wouldn't you like to know about it first? The only way that I found out about the side effects was I went to the drug store and asked for a printout as to what it does and how it works. Even the pharmacist said, "I don't know all the side effects, because some of them are so minuscule that they're not printed." But if you're affected by it, it makes a big difference.
I'm not very keen on taking medication. So I'd have to do quite a bit of thinking about it, you know. And right now, I'm undecided.
DR K: HIS VIEW
Mr G actually came to me and asked me for a prescription for sildenafil. He said that he had a normal libido. It wasn't an issue of libido so much as initiating and maintaining erections. One thing that's happened as a result, I think, primarily because of advertising by the drug company that makes sildenafil, is that people come in and actually raise the issue much more easily than they used to.
In someone like this patient, particularly with a borderline low or a low free testosterone value, who probably would respond to either testosterone or sildenafil, what would Dr Morgentaler recommend? I'd like to know whether he thinks that every gentleman who is given a prescription for testosterone should get a prostate biopsy. I'd also like his opinion on whether primary care physicians should be managing much of this by themselves and when the urologist is particularly useful.
AT THE CROSSROADS: QUESTIONS FOR DR MORGENTALER
What is the definition of male sexual dysfunction? How prevalent is it? What are the causes and pathophysiology of ED? What evaluation should be undertaken for a man with sexual dysfunction? What are the medical treatment options? When should a patient be referred to a urologist for sexual dysfunction? What are the surgical treatment options and when should they be considered? What are the risks and benefits of each? What do you recommend for Mr G?
DR MORGENTALER: Mr G is a 66-year-old married man who presents with a history of diminished libido and ED of several years' duration. The onset of symptoms began when his wife became ill. The history suggests various possibilities regarding etiology: psychological (temporal relationship to wife's illness), vascular (age and hypertension as risk factors), or hormonal (low serum testosterone level). Although sildenafil was prescribed, Mr G never tried it. Mr G expressed concerns about the risks of treatment for sildenafil as well as for testosterone.
Mr G presents with a set of common, yet vexing problems for the primary care physician. What kind of evaluation is required for a man with sexual dysfunction? In a case such as this, how does the clinician decide whether to treat first for hypogonadism (low serum testosterone level) or ED, and how to balance risks vs benefits for treatment of a quality-of-life issue such as male sexual dysfunction?
Male Sexual Dysfunction
Male sexual dysfunction can be broadly separated into several major categories, as outlined in Box 1. The introduction of sildenafil, the first of the oral phosphodiesterase inhibitors, in 1998 has created widespread recognition of ED as a primary form of sexual dysfunction in men, and there is gathering interest as well in hypogonadism. However, there is far less awareness of ejaculatory disorders and of anatomical abnormalities of the penis such as Peyronie disease, an inflammatory condition of the penis that results in palpable plaque or curvature with erection.
Box 1. Classification of Male Sexual Dysfunction
It is of the utmost importance to distinguish which of these conditions is present when a man complains of sexual dysfunction, recognizing that more than one may be present in a given individual.1 This is particularly true in older men, since both ED and hypogonadism become increasingly prevalent with age. A common error is to assume that any sexual complaint in a man represents ED, which may lead to inappropriate and ineffective treatment.2 For example, sildenafil is generally not helpful for men with a primary complaint of diminished libido.3
Mr G presents with symptoms of both ED and diminished libido. Sildenafil, as a treatment for ED, may be a reasonable first step. However, successful treatment of patients like Mr G requires an approach that addresses both conditions. Participation by the partner is always encouraged and can be extremely useful; however, many men prefer to address their sexual dysfunction as a personal issue without involvement of their partner, and this wish must be respected.
A Second Sexual Revolution
The advent of oral contraceptives, coupled with the women's liberation movement in the 1960s, ushered in major changes in sexuality and sexual attitudes and has often been termed a "sexual revolution." The introduction of sildenafil in 1998 has created a second sexual revolution, not only because it is the first effective and safe oral medication for the treatment of ED, but also because it has widely affected social attitudes and behaviors regarding sexuality.1-2 Men, as well as women, are now much more likely to raise the topic of sexual dysfunction with their physicians, and it has become a common scenario for patients like Mr G to specifically request a prescription for Viagra (sildenafil) by name. Sexual dysfunction can lead to depression and a profoundly altered sense of self-esteem that negatively affects many relationships; increased awareness and treatment are thus to be greatly encouraged, due to the profound benefits in life satisfaction that may result.2
Epidemiology of ED
Erectile dysfunction is one of the most common chronic disorders affecting men and becomes increasingly prevalent with age. Data from the Massachusetts Male Aging study showed that 52% of men aged 40 to 70 years reported some degree of ED.4 A similar prevalence of ED has also been found in numerous countries worldwide, affecting greater than 40% of men older than 60 years of age in Finland,5 Italy,6 Japan,7 the United Kingdom,8 Australia,9 and Iran.10
Risk factors for ED include age, diabetes mellitus, hypertension, hyperlipidemia, coronary and peripheral vascular disease, smoking, obstructive voiding symptoms, obesity, renal failure, and alcoholism.4, 11 It is difficult to estimate the relative prevalence of these various etiologies, particularly since more than one may be a contributing factor for many affected men.
Medications are also a common contributing factor. The most common offenders include antihypertensive medications, digoxin, antidepressants, spironolactone, -adrenergic agents, and testosterone-lowering medications, such as gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonist/antagonists. New-onset ED associated with a new medication, or an increased dosage, suggests medication as the likely cause. However, this may occur on either a physical or psychogenic basis, since sexual function may be compromised by fears associated with beginning any new treatment, particularly related to cardiovascular health. For instance, the -blocker class of antihypertensives has generally been considered one of the most common causes of medication-induced ED.12 However, in a study of 96 men with newly diagnosed cardiovascular disease and without ED, 31% reported ED after beginning treatment with atenolol (50 mg) and being informed of its sexual adverse effects. In contrast, only 3% of men who were similarly treated reported ED when they were blinded as to the study drug.13 Nevertheless, the development of new or worsening sexual dysfunction of any type in temporal association with initiation of a new medication should prompt consideration of discontinuation of the medication. Treatment with a phosphodiesterase type 5 (PDE 5) inhibitor may be indicated depending on individual circumstances and the medical necessity of the new medication.
There is growing evidence that ED itself represents a risk factor for subsequent development of cardiovascular events, since it is often a manifestation of atherosclerotic disease.14-15
Pathophysiology of ED
Erection occurs as a coordinated event involving psychic arousal and increased arterial inflow to the corpora cavernosa of the penis in response to parasympathetic nerve signaling via the S2-4 nerve roots, together with trapping of blood within the corpora cavernosa via a veno-occlusive mechanism mediated by smooth muscle relaxation12 (Figure 1). Psychic arousal and sexual behavior is facilitated by androgen priming of the anterior hypothalamus/preoptic area.16 Flaccidity occurs in response to sympathetic influences. Corporal smooth muscle relaxation is mediated by the conversion of guanosine triphosphate (GTP) to cyclic guanine monophosphate (cGMP), under the influence of nitric oxide.17-18 The medications sildenafil, vardenafil, and tadalafil act by inhibiting the metabolism of cGMP by PDE 5, which is found almost exclusively in the corpora cavernosa.19
Erections may fail due to inadequate psychic arousal (eg, anxiety, depression); inadequate hormonal priming of sexual centers in the brain (eg, low testosterone); inadequate nerve signaling to the penile vessels (eg, spinal cord injury, multiple sclerosis, radical prostatectomy); arterial insufficiency (eg, atherosclerosis, vascular surgery, pelvic/perineal trauma); or impaired veno-occlusive ability within the corpora cavernosa (eg, radiation, Peyronie disease, atherosclerosis).1
Evaluation of the Man With ED
Face-to-face evaluation provides the best opportunity to explore the physical and psychological aspects of male sexual dysfunction and allows for identification of modifiable risk factors that may have an impact on general health, such as low serum testosterone level, diabetes mellitus, hypertension, hyperlipidemia, smoking, alcoholism, and depression. Creation of a therapeutic relationship may be critical for a successful outcome, since initial treatment attempts are often less than completely satisfactory.
The Sexual History. The primary goals of the sexual history are to identify the problem, assess its severity, and determine the degree to which the patient and/or his relationship has been affected. The diagnosis of ED is made by history alone and is defined by the inability to achieve or maintain an adequate erection for satisfactory sexual function.1 If ED is present, it is useful to try to determine whether the problem is likely to be organic (physical) or psychological in etiology, since this may influence treatment. Complicated psychosocial issues should be referred to a mental health professional. In Mr G's case, it is noteworthy that he describes his difficulties as occurring around the time of his wife's illness. This is not an uncommon presentation and suggests a psychological contribution to the sexual dysfunction. Some men may understandably feel hesitant or guilty about initiating sex when their partner has been ill, even when the partner encourages the activity.
I recommend a set of questions that are direct and nonjudgmental (Box 2).20 The use of clear terminology, such as the words "penis," "erection," and "orgasm," is helpful, particularly since this gives the patient the opportunity to use similar language without concern that he is using offensive terms. Two questions that have been particularly valuable in my experience are: "What happens when you try to have sex?" and "Is the penis usually hard enough to go inside your partner?"
The intermittent or sudden inability to have a firm erection suggests a psychogenic etiology. Low sexual desire suggests the diagnosis of hypogonadism, depression, or a medication effect. Inability to maintain an erection is most often due to poor veno-occlusive function of the penis, but it is helpful to ask whether softening of the penis happens before or after orgasm, since men with premature ejaculation may describe their symptoms similarly.1
Physical Examination. A directed physical examination should be performed for the man with sexual dysfunction. Specific items to be evaluated include assessment of general health, vigor, mood, and blood pressure. The presence of gynecomastia should be noted. The penis should be palpated to identify the presence of penile plaque, which is indicative of Peyronie disease. Testicular size and consistency should be noted, since small, soft testicles are associated with low serum testosterone level. Peripheral pulses should be evaluated. Neurological assessment should include a digital rectal examination (DRE), since nerve roots S2-4 mediate both erection and anal tone. The prostate should be assessed for size and for the presence of nodularity or asymmetry.
Diagnostic Tests. The goal of diagnostic testing in the primary care setting is to identify abnormalities that may contribute to sexual dysfunction, such as an endocrinopathy, or treatable medical conditions that may be associated with ED, such as diabetes and hyperlipidemia. For this reason, based on clinical experience, I recommend routinely performing the following blood tests in men who present with ED: hematocrit, glucose, total and free testosterone, prolactin, and a lipid profile. Tests of thyroid function and hemoglobin A1C are optional. The luteinizing hormone level should be measured if the history suggests hypogonadism. Men with penile curvature or premature ejaculation do not require diagnostic testing but should be referred to an appropriate specialist, usually a urologist. Testosterone levels should be considered in men with difficulty achieving orgasm unless their symptoms are clearly related to medications known to have this adverse effect, such as the serotonin reuptake inhibitor class of antidepressants.21
A variety of testosterone assays exist. Total testosterone has been used most frequently; however, since the majority of circulating testosterone is bound tightly to sex hormone–binding globulin and is not biologically functional, exclusive reliance on the total testosterone assay will result in underdiagnosis of hypogonadism. Although there is as yet no consensus regarding what serum level defines hypogonadism, values less than 300 ng/dL (10.4 nmol/L), and in some cases 350 ng/dL (12.1 nmol/L), are often used as an inclusion criterion for clinical trials. Unfortunately, the reference ranges for serum testosterone provided by many laboratories are overly generous at the lower range, resulting in categorization of too many results as normal when in fact they suggest hypogonadism.22 The measurement of bioavailable or free testosterone appears to be more useful. Although there is debate regarding the accuracy of the widely used analog assay for free testosterone,23 my experience is that it aids considerably in the identification of hypogonadal men who might benefit from treatment.24 There is no basis for the use of age-adjusted reference values for testosterone, since men of any age will experience similar symptoms at low testosterone levels.
More sophisticated tests, such as nocturnal penile tumescence and rigidity monitoring25-26 or penile Doppler ultrasound of the cavernosal arteries,27 can provide additional functional information but are not necessary in the initial evaluation.
Oral Phosphodiesterase Inhibitors
Treatment must be tailored to the individual. Some men may not desire treatment at all. Others, perhaps like Mr G, are interested primarily in gathering information about treatment options before initiating therapy.
The oral phosphodiesterase inhibitors—sildenafil, vardenafil, and tadalafil—represent first-line therapy for men with ED. Sildenafil and vardenafil have similar pharmacokinetic properties, with peak serum concentrations at approximately 1 hour and a half-life of 4 to 5 hours.3, 28 Tadalafil has a considerably longer half-life of approximately 18 hours, with evidence that erectile function continues to be enhanced for at least 36 hours.29 Although to date no head-to-head clinical trial results between these drugs have been published, their overall clinical efficacy appears to be fairly similar, with minor differences in results likely due to variations in the patient populations studied.3, 28, 30 For example, in a double-blind randomized study of 532 men, successful intercourse was achieved in 69% of men receiving 100 mg of sildenafil compared with 22% of men receiving placebo.3 In a study of 348 men using tadalafil (20 mg), 59% successfully reported intercourse at 36 hours, compared with 28% in the placebo group.30 And in a multicenter, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial, 69% of men receiving vardenafil (20 mg) successfully reported completing intercourse, compared with 22% receiving placebo.28
Approximately half of men with diabetes mellitus or more advanced coronary and peripheral vascular disease report benefit.31-32 A success rate of roughly 30% has been noted following radical prostatectomy.33 An attempt at treatment with oral agents is warranted only if the nerves have been spared, and even then, success is unlikely unless at least partial return of erections has occurred.
Patient education is critical for optimal response to sildenafil. This includes informing the patient to take the medication on an empty stomach and to time sexual activity so that it occurs within 1 to 6 hours, as well as explaining that sexual activity of some sort is necessary to obtain a positive effect. If an initial starting dose of 50 mg is ineffective, I recommend increasing the dosage immediately to 100 mg: nothing is gained by repeated attempts at a subtherapeutic dose. Similar instructions should be provided for vardenafil. However, instructions regarding the timing of intercourse may be considerably liberalized for tadalafil due to its prolonged duration of effect, although peak concentration occurs somewhat later, at 2 hours.
Limitations. Many men who fill prescriptions for sildenafil never refill them, and many others, like Mr G, receive a prescription but never fill it. Reasons for this include ambivalence about taking a medication for sex, cost, concerns regarding risk, and negative partner attitudes regarding sex or the medication. Many men and their partners believe that sexual activity should be natural and spontaneous, and they object to the planning required for successful use of oral medications. Still others may hope that their own sexual abilities will return with time or with resolution of personal problems.
Risks. The phosphodiesterase inhibitors have undergone extensive clinical study and have a fairly benign safety profile when taken as directed.3, 28, 30 The single important contraindication is the use of any nitrates, either on a chronic or intermittent basis, due to the potential for significant hypotension. Sildenafil also should not be taken within 4 hours of -adrenergic blockers,34 and vardenafil should not be used at all with them.35 The most common adverse effects are headache (15%), flushing (10%), nasal/sinus congestion (8%), dyspepsia (7%), and transient color vision changes (3%).3, 27, 29 Mr G should be reassured that priapism is extremely rare and treatable, and that he may safely take sildenafil in combination with his antihypertensive medications, atenolol and hydrochlorothiazide.36
Cardiovascular Effects. The relationship of PDE 5 inhibitors and cardiovascular health has been extensively studied. Daily administration of tadalafil (20 mg) for 26 weeks in healthy men or patients with mild ED resulted in blood pressure changes similar to those observed after placebo administration.37 Sildenafil studies have revealed a minor reduction in systolic and diastolic pressures of 2 to 8 mm Hg without appreciable change in heart rate.38
The cardiac effects of sildenafil during exercise in men with suspected coronary artery disease was studied in a randomized, double-blind, crossover study of 105 men with ED who underwent supine bicycle echocardiograms 1 hour after taking sildenafil or placebo. No negative effect of sildenafil was seen with regard to symptoms, exercise duration, or ischemia.39 Similar safety was noted in a double-blind single-dose crossover study using vardenafil (10 mg) or placebo in 41 men with stable exertional angina who underwent exercise tolerance testing.40 No differences were noted between vardenafil and placebo with regard to exercise time or time to first awareness of angina, but vardenafil did significantly prolong the time to ischemic threshold.
A persistent concern among men and their partners is that sildenafil or its competitors might cause a myocardial infarction, based on early reports of sudden death reported in the lay press. An unquantified number of these anecdotal cases were clearly related to the contraindicated simultaneous use of nitrates. Nevertheless, the data regarding PDE 5 inhibitors and coronary artery disease have been reassuring. Cardiac catheterization for severe coronary artery disease was performed in 14 men before and 45 minutes following administration of sildenafil (100 mg), resulting in no negative hemodynamic effects.41 Moreover, an investigation of reports of sildenafil-associated deaths showed no difference from expected death rates,42 and the rate of cardiac events in England among users of sildenafil appeared to be no higher than that of the general population.43 Nevertheless, it must be recognized that sexual activity itself is associated with a small risk of myocardial infarction,44 and cardiovascular assessment should be considered prior to treatment of ED in any patient considered at increased risk for a cardiac event.
Since cardiovascular disease often coexists with ED, the Princeton Consensus Panel was convened to review existing data and provide recommendations regarding the treatment of sexual dysfunction in men with heart disease.45 Those recommendations indicate the need for no additional evaluation prior to treatment for men in a low-risk group, including those with controlled hypertension; mild, stable angina; history of uncomplicated myocardial infarction; and mild valvular disease. A high-risk group was identified in whom treatment of sexual dysfunction should be withheld until further safety data could be accumulated. This group included men with unstable or refractory angina, uncontrolled hypertension, high-grade congestive heart failure, myocardial infarction within the previous 2 weeks, high-risk arrhythmias, obstructive cardiomyopathy, and moderate to severe valvular disease. Men with intermediate risk, eg, those with moderate angina or recent myocardial infarction (<6 weeks), should undergo further cardiac evaluation before restratification into one of the other groups.
Other Treatment Options for ED
Treatment options for ED, benefits, and approximate costs are presented in Table 1. Penile injections with vasoactive medications are effective in 70% to 80% of patients, have an onset of action within 10 minutes, and are nearly painless.46-47 They represent the most common treatment for men who take nitrates or have had no success with phosphodiesterase inhibitors and are used by approximately 10% of men with ED. Alprostadil48-49 is most frequently prescribed but can cause an unpleasant burning sensation in about 20% of men. Papaverine and phentolamine can be used to avoid this problem or used in combination with alprostadil for greater efficacy.50 In a study of 615 cases of men using penile injection therapy, penile fibrosis was noted in 3%, and 4% of men experienced a prolonged erection, representing 0.3% of injections.47 Although less than half of men taught to use penile injection therapy continue to use this therapy for more than a few years,51 satisfaction rates among users are comparable to men who use sildenafil as therapy for ED.52
Intraurethral suppositories of alprostadil avoid penile injection but are less effective and require the use of a tourniquet at the base of the penis for optimal results.53 Initial treatment should occur in a health care environment with proper monitoring due to the rare occurrence of syncope.
Vacuum constriction devices offer a noninvasive yet mechanical treatment and is used by approximately 5% of men with ED.54 A plastic cylinder is placed around the penis and negative pressure is created, drawing blood into the penis. A tourniquet is placed at the penile base once adequate rigidity has been achieved, trapping blood within the corpora cavernosa. Some men find this treatment ideal, although many others find it cumbersome or unappealing.
Surgical implants remain a highly successful and satisfying treatment for men whose condition has failed oral therapy and find other treatment options unsatisfactory.55-56 Nevertheless, the number of procedures performed is relatively low compared with the estimated population of men with ED. A review of 372 cases using the AMS 700CX inflatable prosthesis (American Medical Systems Inc, Minnetonka, Minn) revealed 86% device reliability after 5 years, and 79% of men continued to use it for intercourse at least monthly.56 In a study of 434 patients implanted with the Mentor alpha-1 inflatable prosthesis (Mentor, Santa Barbara, Calif), functional results were similar, with patient satisfaction rates of greater than 80%, and partner satisfaction rates slightly lower than this.57 The appearance and sensation of the penis is quite natural, and psychologically, many men say they feel their problem has been "fixed" after placement of a penile prosthesis. The primary risks are device failure (2% at 2 years; 14% at 5 years) and infection in 2% to 3% of cases.55-56,58
Other Oral Therapies. Apomorphine is a centrally acting oral medication that has shown mild clinical efficacy in the treatment of ED,59 but is not available in the United States. Yohimbine is a plant-derived -adrenergic inhibitor with limited efficacy in the treatment of ED.60 Despite aggressive marketing, no data support the assertion that nutritional supplements, herbal therapies, or vitamins have any beneficial effect in the treatment of ED.1
Hypogonadism
When a man like Mr G presents with symptoms such as diminished libido and ED in association with a low serum testosterone level, the condition is termed hypogonadism.21 Other symptoms and signs of hypogonadism include depressed mood; reduced energy, muscle mass, and strength; reduced bone density; anemia; fatigue; and impaired cognition. Less well-recognized sexual symptoms of hypogonadism include difficulty achieving orgasm, diminished intensity of the orgasm, reduced sexual sensation in the penis, and reduced ejaculate volume.21
Hypogonadism is quite common, since testosterone levels decline 1% per year beginning around 40 years of age.61-62 Thus, the male population at risk for both ED and hypogonadism overlaps considerably. A major issue for clinicians caring for patients like Mr G is whether to first treat his ED, his hypogonadism, or both in combination. Treatment of hypogonadism results in reliable improvement in the symptoms of diminished libido and feelings of enhanced sexuality.63-64 However, ED itself may not respond as well, particularly in older men, due to coexisting vascular pathology.
Forms of Testosterone Supplementation. Forms of testosterone treatment include intramuscular injections every 1 to 3 weeks with testosterone esters (cypionate or enanthate) or topical daily treatments with gels or patches. Gels have become the favored mode of treatment for many patients due to their high efficacy in restoring physiological testosterone levels,65 ease of use, and infrequent skin irritation, the last representing a significant limitation in acceptance of the patches.66 Oral agents available in the United States all share a significant risk of hepatotoxicity,67 and their use is therefore discouraged. An informal survey of Boston pharmacies in April 2004 revealed a monthly treatment cost of approximately $220 for gels and $24 for injections.
Risks of Testosterone Treatment. Testosterone supplementation within the physiological range is generally well tolerated. Risks include erythrocytosis in as many as 50% of men receiving injections, but in only 5% of men using gels or patches.21 Gynecomastia, peripheral edema, exacerbation or de novo sleep apnea, acne, and mild weight gain occur in less than 2% of men.64 Testicular atrophy can occur, more prominently in younger men. In addition, men must be advised that fertility will be impaired while receiving exogenous testosterone due to negative feedback on pituitary gonadotrophins.68 Exacerbation of bladder outlet voiding symptoms is uncommon. Transdermal preparations are associated with local skin reactions in 3% to 5% of men using gels and as many as 40% of men using patches.21 There is no evidence that testosterone supplementation represents a risk for cardiovascular disease; on the contrary, some studies suggest that it may even be beneficial.69-71 Although testosterone treatment may reduce high-density lipoprotein cholesterol, total cholesterol is generally reduced as well, resulting in a neutral net effect.72 Liver toxicity does not seem to be associated with transdermal or intramuscular preparations of testosterone.21
One must also consider the risks of failing to treat men with hypogonadism. These may include depression, diminished sense of vitality, sexual dysfunction, anemia, and reduced bone mineral density.21
Testosterone and the Prostate
The greatest concern of clinicians regarding testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is possible stimulation of an occult prostate cancer. This follows from the work of Huggins et al in the 1940s,73 who showed that prostate cancer was androgen-sensitive by following chemical markers in an uncontrolled study of 8 men with metastatic prostate cancer who underwent bilateral orchiectomy. Nevertheless, the limited clinical trials to date have shown a risk of prostate cancer in men undergoing TRT of approximately 1%, a rate not different from untreated men undergoing screening.74 Moreover, population-based studies have failed to demonstrate that men with higher levels of testosterone are at any increased risk of developing prostate cancer or that men with low testosterone levels are somehow protected against developing prostate cancer.75-78 Furthermore, only 1 of 20 hypogonadal men at high risk for prostate cancer based on a prior history of prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia developed cancer after 1 year of testosterone treatment,24 suggesting that TRT may not adversely affect progression of prostate cancer.
Who Should Be Referred for Prostate Biopsy in Association With TRT?
Men with an elevated PSA level or an abnormal DRE finding should undergo biopsy prior to initiation of TRT. Prostate biopsy should also be performed if the PSA rises above the normal range or the DRE becomes abnormal during treatment. There is ongoing debate whether the historical upper PSA threshold of 4.0 ng/mL should be lowered to 2.6 ng/mL.79-80 A rapid rise of PSA is a further indication for biopsy, since this may be a sign of prostate cancer as well. Bhasin and colleagues recommend biopsy for a rise of 1.0 ng/mL or greater within the first 6 months of treatment, and for any rise of 0.4 ng/mL per year after that time.74 Although most clinicians currently reserve prostate biopsy for the indications above, it has been my own practice to perform prostate biopsy prior to initiation of TRT in all men age 45 years or older, since 14% of hypogonadal men with a normal DRE and PSA less than 4.0 ng/mL have biopsy-detectable prostate cancer.81 There is evidence that high-grade prostate cancer, Gleason 8-10, is particularly associated with low testosterone.82
Once treatment has been initiated, men should be monitored with PSA and DRE, as well as hemoglobin or hematocrit, 2 to 3 times within the first year, and 1 to 2 times per year thereafter.21, 74
Who Should Treat the Man With ED?
Most men with ED can be effectively treated by their primary care physicians. Men with physical abnormalities of the penis, such as Peyronie disease, should be referred to a urologist. If oral medication fails or is contraindicated, then the man should be referred to a specialist in sexual dysfunction, which in most cases will be a urologist. Sexual problems related to hypogonadism may also be treated by the primary care physician or referred to a urologist or endocrinologist. Referral to a psychotherapist is indicated for significant personal or relationship issues that appear to be more complicated than a straightforward complaint of ED or low sexual desire.
The Competing Issues of Hypogonadism and ED
The 2 primary treatment options offered to Mr G, testosterone and sildenafil, have widely different actions. Sildenafil effectively improves blood flow to the penis, thus aiding erection, but has no direct effect on libido. Testosterone supplementation, on the other hand, has a wide variety of potential benefits, including improved erections, libido, mood, strength, and sense of well-being. Men who respond to TRT often report that they "feel normal again."
As a rule, I treat hypogonadal men with TRT first, since this may offer a more complete response than addressing ED alone. If ED does not respond to testosterone treatment, I then prescribe a PDE 5 inhibitor. If the man has experienced benefits from TRT, such as improved libido, he may continue both treatments together. If no symptomatic improvement resulted from TRT itself, it is my practice to discontinue it. However, some clinicians choose to continue treatment to address the metabolic effects of hypogonadism.
Recommendations for Mr G
I would first offer Mr G a trial of TRT in the form of a topical gel, adjusting dosage and mode of therapy as needed to achieve physiological testosterone levels. It is my own practice to perform prostate biopsy before initiating treatment because of the substantial prevalence of biopsy-detectable cancer in this population. However, this approach is impractical for nonurologists, and a reasonable alternative strategy is to monitor with PSA and DRE at 3, 6, and 12 months, reserving biopsy for worrisome changes. If Mr G noted improvement in ED and libido with testosterone supplementation, I would continue this treatment indefinitely. If he notices no benefit at all despite mid- to high-normal testosterone levels, I would discontinue the testosterone trial. I would then offer treatment with one of the oral PDE 5 inhibitors. If libido improves with TRT but ED persists, I would continue TRT and add a PDE 5 inhibitor to the treatment regimen.
Given Mr G's concerns regarding risks, I would reassure him that both testosterone and PDE 5 inhibitors have been widely studied and both appear to have good safety profiles. I would specifically add that sildenafil by itself has not been found to be dangerous for the heart, that it can be taken together with his antihypertensive medications, and that priapism is extremely rare and treatable. I would emphasize that he will require monitoring of his prostate and hematocrit indefinitely while receiving TRT. I would then encourage him to begin treatment if he wishes.
It is my own belief that the mission of physicians must include doing our best to improve the quality of life of our patients. Given the importance of sexuality in human life, I encourage clinicians to become knowledgeable in the area of male sexual dysfunction to ably assist their patients to experience full, satisfying, and loving lives.
QUESTIONS AND DISCUSSION
A PHYSICIAN: You mentioned that sildenafil worked in 80% of psychogenic and 65% of organic cases of ED. What about placebo response in each group?
DR MORGENTALER: The placebo response depends greatly on the study population. Trials that include populations of men with psychogenic ED, as in the first published study of sildenafil, showed 80% efficacy for the highest dose of sildenafil for some measures, with a corresponding placebo response rate as high as 50%.3 Studies of men with more significant medical conditions demonstrate efficacy in 40% to 60%, with a placebo response rate of 10% to 15%.32
A PHYSICIAN: If a man has a nest of prostate cancer cells present on biopsy, would you still offer him testosterone therapy or would you recommend other treatments?
DR MORGENTALER: The single absolute contraindication to testosterone therapy is the presence of prostate cancer,74 and I would not offer testosterone therapy to a man with untreated prostate cancer. Historically, this contraindication has been extended to all men with a history of prostate cancer, with the thought that quiescent cancer cells may be stimulated by testosterone supplementation. But, in my opinion, a blanket contraindication doesn't make sense. We withhold testosterone therapy from hypogonadal men who underwent radical prostatectomy 5 to 10 years ago with an undetectable PSA level even though they are likely cured of their cancer. Why can't we treat them? If their own testosterone level were normal, no one would suggest these men should be castrated.
Another example is that we often give testosterone-lowering treatments to men as an adjunct to radiation therapy for prostate cancer. Afterward, testosterone levels typically return to normal, but not always. Even if those men are highly symptomatic, with hot flashes, low energy, and absent libido, we do not give testosterone because of their history of prostate cancer. But if their testosterone levels spontaneously returned to normal, we say that's fine. This is an artificial distinction. Why should we penalize the man who remains symptomatically hypogonadal?
A PHYSICIAN: Could you comment on the recreational use of sildenafil in men without ED?
DR MORGENTALER: The mythology of Viagra on the street is that it can turn any man into a sexual superstar.2 The ease of obtaining sildenafil via the Internet has essentially demedicalized PDE 5 inhibitors for a substantial number of men without ED who use it for recreational purposes. Some of my own patients without ED have reported that sildenafil provides them with greater rigidity and a shortened refractory interval. However, the effects of the recreational use of PDE 5 inhibitors have not been well studied. My major concern is the psychological impact of taking these medications for younger men who are not yet in a stable relationship. I have seen cases where men who lack for nothing except confidence secretly take sildenafil every time they go on a date, in the hope that it will help them please their partner. However, this can create obstacles for a solid intimate relationship. Apart from issues of authenticity, trust, and honesty, it seems to me that the key psychological cost of using sildenafil recreationally is that, by relying on a pharmacologic enhancement to his sexuality, a man loses an opportunity to achieve what we all look for in relationships—namely, to be loved and accepted for whom we really are.
AUTHOR INFORMATION
Corresponding Author: Abraham Morgentaler, MD, Men's Health Boston, One Brookline Place, Suite 624, Brookline, MA 02445 (amorgent@yahoo.com).
This conference took place at the Medicine Grand Rounds of Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Boston, Mass, on May 29, 2003.
Acknowledgment: We thank the patient and his doctor for sharing their stories with us.
Author Affiliation: Dr Morgentaler is Director, Men's Health Boston, and Associate Clinical Professor of Surgery (Urology), Harvard Medical School, Boston, Mass.
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83. Chamness SL, Ricker DD, Crone JK, et al. The effect of androgen on nitric oxide synthase in the male reproductive tract of the rat. Fertil Steril. 1995; 63:1101-1107. ISI | PUBMED
Addendum: Useful Questions in the Sexual History
What actually happens when you try to have sex?
Is the penis ever firm enough to go inside your partner?
Does your penis ever become firm?
Upon awakening?
With masturbation?
How long has this been a problem?
Did anything happen, medically or socially, around the time that this problem began?
Any new medications around the time that the problem began?
What do you think is causing the problem?
How has this affected you? Your partner? Your relationship?
Are you interested in treating the problem?
Are you able to have an orgasm?
Is there any new curve when you have an erection?
What treatments, if any, have you tried so far?
One can have radical surgery.
RECONFIGURATION OF THE SEVERELY FIBROTIC PENIS WITH A
PENILE IMPLANT
FRANCESCO MONTORSI, ANDREA SALONIA, TOMMASO MAGA, RENZO COLOMBO,
ANDREA CESTARI, GIORGIO GUAZZONI AND PATRIZIO RIGATTI
These surgeons are in Italy from the Department of Urology, University "Vita e Salute-San Raffaele," Milan, Italy.
No time to post the pictures (i have posted them before - one can search through my old posts). The make the severely shortened and fibrotic penis longer by adding grafts and making relaxing incisions before putting in the prosthesis. It is a last resort, but one should know that those who get this after struggling for a long time with other avenues have a very high satisfaction rate.
Tim
Hello Tim, and thanks a lot for answers,
Yes, for sure its a BIG problem, and it's a terrible experience that can give you very, very dark ideas.
I'm 25, last year i was going out with a model and worked in music, some months later my life is destroyed, what happened between that two points? An unusual sexual accident, bad diagnosed by urologists, and now i am just told that i will stay impotent for rest of my life, juste makes me crazy.
'It sounds like you have developed diffuse fibrosis in response to a non-specific injury. It sounds similar to what might happen to the corora cavernosa and tunica when one develops priapism (prolonged painful erection). In priapism, one potential outcome is development of a penis such as you describe (interestingly, that is not always the outcome of priapism - why not?).'
>>>> yes it's exactly what i feel, and what last doctor i saw thinks too. (after....7months!!!!) , and when you say 'non specific injury', its totally that, because what i had doenst look typical, not a typical peyronie, not a priapism, not a very violent penile fracture.
Do you know if some vaccumm exercise can help with such a problem? Or oral medication? (i ask here coz i dont really trust doctors anymore now...one told me to do vaccum, the other told me it wasn't good)... and me, i stay in my condition...
Do you have the name of the french surgeon you speak about?
I tried to take cialis during last month two times a week. In my case, the problem is that the penis has changed of anatomy. I would say the cialis 'works', but the induced erection is now small, with curvature (not a big one, that's not the problem), paintful, with no sensation, and totally hard, with no elasticity in the penis. In fact my penis becomes very very hard and 'sticks itself' to the belly and navel (if you see the image), it doesnt go in 'normal direction' like before, i mean pointing right. There is definitely a big organic problem. It's for that reason i would like treating the fibrous tissue if it's possible, and not only take medicine like cialis or viagra, coz they are not very useful in my case.
What are pentox and arginine ? are they used with 'success' if following impotence due to priapism?(sorry if i haven't read the whole forum, its quite hard for me to understand evrything in english)
For sure i am looking for a very good evaluation, but lots of doctors are not competent here. About sexual problems, they first say its psychologic when you are young (pffffffffff, i know it was organic), and finally when in my case they admitted it was fisical (just have to see the form of penis!!!, and the unpossibility to stretch it at flaccid state), they said it was too late and now can only give cialis or viagra pfffff i am so disgusted. So i dont know a doctor who could do it.
Do you know if things like fish oil or vitamine E can help?
Has anyone already experienced such a problem as mine?
To finish, i would defintely never accept a penile prothese. First because i cant accept that i went to doctor very soon at the beginning of problem and they let the problem go to total impotence. Secondly because i read some about prothese and it's horrible, it's totally mechanic, you have no more pleasure or what. I am young, not married, i liked enjoying life and go to see different girls, it's not as if i was with my wife and explain her that. And i am too young . And too expensive. Any way that's a solution i can't accept. My goal is to recover from the fibrous tissue. How could i become impotent in so few time? Disgusted.
Anyway thanks a lot for your answers and help. I'm in a such despair, i hope so much find a 'treatement' (to take 1 year to recover, or even more, would make me mad, but i could to that, because it's worth to do it, but if i am clearly said that i just can do nothing, useless to live it).
Thanks Tim,
Antony
QuoteWhat do you think?
Maybe I should see a sexologist for the low sexual desire, at the same time as a urologist specialised in Peyronies Disease...
Sound like a reasonable approach to me. As far as supplements, many men swear by "horny goat weed" . "Red Korean Ginseng" has good reviews, also.
Antony,
I have learned to never say never. You should know that implants have a high satisfaction rate, and men can experience orgasm and good sensations, and it is not mechanical etc. Think of it this way. What if you struggled for3 years, or 5 years, or ten years and got no better? Would you then want to get a bigger and straighter penis that worked and pleased a woman and allowed you to have an orgasm with intercourse? I think the answer is yes. But you are not there now. That is OK - just understand that if you fail to improve, that you DO have an option that can restore you to a way to have back your sex life.
Having said that, I want to remind you that I wanted you to simply remember that you have other options to fall back on as you struggle with your feelings of despair.
Now, as for viagra or cialis... althoug it is hard, you really should go back to read some of the "highlights" on the "Newly Diagnosed Highlights " area. There you will see why we are saying that might be good for you.
The Viagra or Cialis is not intended to promote erection for fibrosis, but to promote healing. Getting harder erections is simply a good side effect! Rather, the viagra, and arginine promote what are called "nitric oxide" (also known as 'NO') biochemical pathways in the body. This will promote an anit-inflammatory healing, and allow recovery better than when such drugs are not given.
Pentoxifylline is designed to reduce the formation of transforming growth factor Beta-1 (TGF-Beta), which is a chemical in the body that promotes fibrosis. By blocking it's formation with pentoxifylline, you allow the fibrosis to gradually reverse.
So, using those medicines may allow a reversal of fortune for you over time. I would waste no time in digging up these articles and reading them and then finding a uroolgist who is willing to work with you.
Tim
Related articles:
Valente EG et al. (2003) L-arginine and phosphodiesterase (PDE) inhibitors counteract fibrosis in the Peyronie's fibrotic plaque and related fibroblast cultures. Nitric Oxide 9: 229–244
Schwartz EJ et al. (2004) Sildenafil preserves intracorporeal smooth muscle after radical retropubic prostatectomy. J Urol 171: 771–774
Rajfer J. Gore JL. Kaufman J. Gonzalez-Cadavid N. Case report: Avoidance of palpable corporal fibrosis due to priapism with upregulators of nitric oxide. [Case Reports. Journal Article] Journal of Sexual Medicine. 3(1):173-6, 2006 Jan.
Aslan A. Karaguzel G. Melikoglu M. Severe ischemia of the glans penis following circumcision: a successful treatment via pentoxifylline. [Case Reports. Journal Article. Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov't] International Journal of Urology. 12(7):705-7, 2005 Jul.
Evliyaolu Y. Kayrin L. Kaya B. Effect of pentoxifylline on veno-occlusive priapism-induced corporeal tissue lipid peroxidation in a rat model. [Journal Article] Urological Research. 25(2):143-7, 1997
Tim,
yes i will ask to my urologist about pentox or other treatments VS fibrosis.
The fact is in 6 months i have seen a lot of doctors who did a lot of mistakes, and i have seen some of 'famous' ones who can now do nothing (it's their own words, 'just take cialis and see')....
For that reason such a despair : 1 'little' accident, 6months to know what i had, lots of doctors and mistakes, an impotence and retracted penis as a conclusion.
For the implants, you're right but i realy dont want of that.
I will try to read the highlights too .
Pentox and arginine have really healed people who had fibrous tissue after priapism?? here, urologists say that when you have fibrosis of erectile tissue after priapism, there is nothing to do, its for life.
Are the related articles you give me are on the forum or on the net?
Thank you.
Antony
Antony,
I just want to let you know that I will be moving these posts to another topic since most of it really is not about erectile dysfunction, but I will leave them here for now because I want to be sure you see the posts.
Pay very close attention to what Tim is saying. I think it is VERY unlikely that you can just go to your doctor and "ask about pentox". You must educate yourself thoroughly about its use with Cialis or Viagra to treat Peyronies Disease. You must take documentation. You must present this in a way the doctor will take you seriously and without offense. You also must prepare for the fact that even then he may refuse and you will be going to yet another doctor.
You have time, and you have options. Be calm, relax, think positive. Life is not over.
The articles Tim ended his post with are on the internet.
Also please start by reading this on the forum https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,440.0.html
Hawk
Hello Hawk,
i didnt know where to post exactly, but my problem deals with impotence , fibrosis, so i thought it was in erectile dysfunction. In fact it's a little like a peyronies disease with total impotence.
Yes you're right about the doctor. The problem is, as i explained, that i saw lots of them, at the begining they didn't take it seriously (they said it was a prostatisis, nothing, psy, etc etc). Now they tell me its very serious. So i am no more really patient with them, and don't really trust them anymore. The sexologist who works with me now wants to make me use vaccumm during 3 months, i was nearly to try when my generalist doctor told me it wasn't good, and adressed me to another specialist (i have apointment in... the end of november). So i think they made me lose enough time ; so if a treatment can help and they didn't suggest it , i will speak to them about it. I can't stay like that. The problem is already very very serious in itself , with bad consequences, but the worst is that ... they suggest me absolutely nothing (exept the one with vaccumm).
So if treatments with positive results were seen here for fibrosis of erectile tissues , i have to speak to the doctor about them.
Being relax, you know, i was at the begining. But i've heard that during 6 months ('no panic', 'it will be better', 'cool', etc etc, coz for doctors it's easy to say. I stayed cool some months, and i saw the situation was decreasing. Now i'm told that i will stay impotent , so hard to stay cool. I even post on american forums!!) Don't know who would be relax with all my symptoms and my life break in so few time.
I will read your link , and try to find articles Tim mention on internet. (french ones say there is nothing to do with fibrosis).
Antony
Antony,
Just a couple of comments. First of all, Pentox has been used to tried different types of fibrosis with some degree of success. Secondly, I suspect that your Sexologist might well know more about the vacuum therapy than your general doctor. A gentle application of vacuum would be more likely to be helpful in my opinion (I am not a doctor) than harmful. So these are two potentially useful approaches. But, at this point, a few more months is not likely to make a whole lot of difference on the effectiveness of treatment. BUT, a few more months can make a lot of difference on the impression you can make on the doctor as to your degree of knowledge on the subject. And that is VERY important. You need to carefully study the use of the generic drug Pentox and also the use and concept of the VED (Vacuum Erection Device). You need to know the course of treatment you want to pursue and you need to be able to provide your doctor with convincing evidence that this course of treatment might be effective. It really sounds to me like the Sexologist is on the right track here, so perhaps you need to give him/her the opportunity to help you further. But, in any case, you will need to discuss this further with your general doctor and enlist him on your side in this project. Most doctors DO respond to legitimate research, so the more of that you have in hand when you go to the office, the better. And the more you learn about fibrosis in general and those strategies that might work against it, the better equipped you will be to deal with this over the long term. Both Tim and Hawk are giving you excellent advice. Take your time and learn, learn, learn. And don't let yourself be disabled by depression. There really IS more to life than sex. But the more attention you pay to building up your general health with a good diet and healthy exercise, the better prepared you will be to potentially get rid of this monster. I wish you the very best.
God bless you,
George
Hi guys!
Antony, I do think that before you make a bad move (talking about dark things, I don't think it's about coffee or chocolate), think twice and take time to search for solutions.
You've been to comedian-doctors like there are some many as it seems...
In France (at least north of France), they know close to nothing about Peyronies Disease, just talk about "corrective" surgery, or "just wait and see"... Very frustrating isn't it?
Now, forget about these comedians, take time to find a urologist interested in Peyronies Disease. Ask him directly over the phone if you can, don't waste time and money with guys specialized in urinary leaks...
If you need to just talk in order to feel better, you can send private messages to me or the veterans of this forum, they've been through tough s..t too, (we're babies here, they know more than us) so they can help you raise you head.
In the meantime, don't do anything stupid, talk about this whenever you need (here we keep it private, right guys ? :D) and do activities that you enjoy the most (music if it's what you like). I think some doctors are searching for solutions, stuff that might not help you recover full use of your penis right now, but some techniques may give you back a part of your sex life, and then in a few years, who knows? They'll find a cure.
So keep your head up and do things that you enjoy, or I'll find your house and will kick your ass! >:(
Smile my friend ;) I know it's hard, but you're just too young to give up now.
QuoteThe last doctor i saw thinks i had a shock on tunica albuginea during the intercourse in February and sadly, the scar healing went in bad way, and made a scar tissue on erectile tissue, and that condamns erection!!! According to him, i have a fibrosis of erectile tissues!!And he can't do anything apparently. All that for that. Now i don't trust doctors anymore, and have really dark ideas.
Does this doctor think you will heal? Does this doctor think you will have normal sex in the future? Here is a site about penile fracture (broken penis) and other trauma to the penis. Try to Google penis fracture. I'm sure there are sites in French, too. Go to a doctor for dark thoughts (depression). Medicine will help that. :) My favorite is Wellbutrin, but they have other "flavors", too. :) Good Luck!
http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic3415.htm - the part about fracture skips around :( You will have to scroll down the page.
Hello guys ,
thanks a lot for your comments, really.
To GEORGES, i think i will defintely ask to my doctor about pentox. A french doctor was making research about fibrosis and i have read she used that for treating fibrosis -but not penis fibrosis, it was in order to treat post-surgery fibrosis, i have mailed her to ask her if it was the same principle for penis.
Maybe the vaccumm can help too efectively. You're right telling that the sexologist probably knows more than the generalist doctor, but i saw so many crap specialists in so few time that now my trust in them is very low.
In fact at flaccid state (99% of time now i am impotent), there is like a torsion at basis of penis, probably the blood can't circul normally and lead to the fibrosis of tissues.
Few months more are maybe 'not a lot' at the point where i am, but each day which goes is harder. As i told, the worst is not to have this problem if there was a common and well known way to heal it, the worst is that it seems there is so few to do, and what can i try like vaccum or pentox, i am totally not sure it will do something, and that i will recover. I've tried some diferents treatments since the begining (antibiotics for a prostatisis i didnt have, medical chinese herbs, cialis, anxiolitics, each time it should 'heal' me , but in fact it did about nothing).
After, when you say 'there is really more to life than sex'... Ah, it's too long to explain. for me it was 'a part of the balance', to stay stable. The 'side' with girls had a very important part in my life, i was also working in music band like 'sexy music' ,that speaks about a lot of parties, sex, relationships between guys and girls, etc, so i had t give up everything in so few time. I lost work, girlfriend, projects, confidence, and these olidays(this one is not the main thing), and probably my... life. And sure, there is not only sex in life, i could stay some time without having sex it was ok, but there is a diference between 'chosing not having sex', and 'dont have the possibility because i've become fisically importent...' Imagine, just later for having a wife and family... I'm just 25...
Anyway, i lost evrything in that problem, i don't want to move you to pity , not my goal, not my behaviour, but just hope i can do something to heal .
Anyway thanks a lot for your encouragement.
To NINJA GAIDEN (it was a video game if i remember well): thanks too for your post, you know the story now, and you know why i have so dark ideas. (lol dark things in my mind are darker than coffee or chocolate...)After, maybe it's a matter of age, way of life, personality, area where you live, etc, etc, the way how you react.
As for me, to become impotent was the worst thing that could happen, even in a nightmare i couldnt think that. I have ever had lots of muddles, quite rough and very speed life, some hard or sad moments, its ok, no problem, I can manage and recover very quickly. Every body has its dificulties. But this one... One night you make love, you feel something serious and bad hapened in your penis, nobody takes you seriously, especially doctors -, and few months later you have lost everything in your life.... (i can't sum up all what i tried, did, consulted, wasted my money for NOTHING in only 6 months, its not believable -you could make a film or book, 'how to go from the top to the hell in so few time'). So, even being proud, i admit without any problem that this thing is too hard for me.
i totally see what you mean speaking about 'comedian doctors'. And yes, the 'wait and see' of french doctors i saw... I was like: 'wait and see what???? wait i become definitely impotent??? ' Go to hell these doctors, i prefer one who admits that it's serious but he doesn't really know what to do, than the ones who say 'wait, it will be ok, and give you... nothing'.
Concerning the urologist, i think i continue with the sexologist i see at the moment, but i don't know if i have to find one in 'peyronies disease' coz in fact, it looks like a lot a peyronie disease but not sure that its a typical one (or if it is, i am in the crap becoz i read on all french sites that when you become impotent because of peyronies disease, you will never recover. You can recover from curvature, from erectile pain, but not impotence caused by this illness.) My case looks like a lot, but my fibrosis of erectile tissues doesn't come from a peyronies disease i think (at least no doctor told me that, even if they said so much crap). Sure i have wasted enough time and money in the ones that make you do urinary analyses when you speak about total impotence, no sensitivity in penis, hardeness of penis , deformation and fibrosis....
Thank you a lot for your recomfort, but for sure, can't continue my activities,especially music, and have stopped smiling. Anyway , about finding a treatment, i'm looking for all what i can, but concerning the 'mind' , it's too hard .
But i thank you , and good luck to find my house for kicking ass lol, haven't you heard in riots of november 2005, that it's dangerous to come in some areas now, it has become like Compton or Harlem here loool. ;)
To LIAM: No, this doctor is about sure about what i have, but said to me he can do nothing. Just adviced me to another 'famous' doctor, i have apointment at the end of november, and this one will probably tell me he can do nothing, so waiting for these apointments that only make me waste few money i have now, are useless. He told me , just like that, 'hope in some years you will have a normal sex life again' (before that crap problem, i had never had even one small problem concerning sex).
I've read the french sites about penis fracture, they all say that you need a surgery very quiclky in order to avoid consequences like impotence precisely, curvature or pain in penis.... But during my intercourse, i had a big pain when the girl did wrong move, but no visible haematoma, so when i visited doctor because i had pain, he said 'it's nothing, it will go better soon'... you know the following of the story.
I can read about american articles on penis fracture, but i think this problem is 'international', they will probably say that, once it has bad scared, in a bad way, you're elasticity in erection is condamned for erver and need a penile protesis....
I saw recently a doctor for my dark thoughts, even if i don't like so much this type of doctors or medicine (its the 1st time i am confronted to that) , i made effort. But no medicine like anti depressor will make me forget what happened, and happens , to me... Maybe i should ask for the tarazadone i read about here?
Thanks for your message and the link.
Antony
Antony,
> ninja gaiden was indeed a video game ;)
You need to find a way to think about something else (ha ha, you must be reaaally having fun reading this advice :-\) I know it's hard thinking about something else and I can't imagine your situation, having "just" a 45° bent and a couple of other sensitivity / hardness problems that spoil the fun of a normal sex life. And of course, I have the same questions about the future, family, kids, can't imagine a bright future too.
You had hard times, I had my share too, and not small stuff that people usually complain about, but I know that this is the most shattering experience I'm living now. It pretty spoils my activities too.
But we have to wait at least a few years and try some options before thinking about giving up. You can't give up so soon, try for a 4-5 years to see what can be done.
I would not recommend the use of antidepressant in general, but in your case, take it because you're at the bottom at the moment. As time goes by, you'll have more time to think more "clearly" and look for solutions.
Unless you tried all, you can't give up. Don't make anything stupid ok?
Talk here, send messages as much as you want, we'll pay attention to you. But you have to talk about this in order to feel a little better.
Let the pride on a shelf cause in this case, not talking will bring you down.
Theses problems are too serious to be kept to oneself, but talk to people who are in the same boat, only them can understand (to my point of view).
Take you medication + go to a psychologist in order to get advice to get out of this depression.
Keep us informed about you because we don't want you to think you're alone.
And if music hurts, do something else (sport, anything) that will help you smile. Keep us informed please.
Hello ninja ,
Thanks for moral help, you know since the begining i try to think about something else, but the problem of a 'illness' like that is that it's 'on you', you can go evrywhere, do what you want, you have it 'inside you', and that's terrible.
I supose that a 45° bent, and sensitivity/hardness problems are already really hard to support, (by the way how it happened to you?), so imagine that at my age i become totally impotent and that medicines like ciallis dont work so much, and the erectile tissues have become totally fibrosed, because of... such a 'little thing', a night when a girl made a F^@$!ng bad move during intercourse at the top of me...(i would have prefered to be amonk pfff). And it was not a typical penile fracture, and not a peyronie, but worse consequences than both of them... The shock i received was hard but not so terrible, and now my man's life is finished, and i am too young for that.And of course i'm scared about future, wife, kids,too, and to have lost all what i liked, and to stay some years like that, like a dependant person because i stopped job.
When i know some men of 70year old who complain because they lose a little their erection and feel losing their virility, it makes me mad...
I was told that maybe in 5-6 years tunica albuginea could be put in 'culture' in order to repair it , and to insert the new one in good form into the penis. But it's not sure, trials are just done on animals, and anyway, 7 months like that were so horrible, i can't imagine 6 years.
I will go to see the doctor to speak about the anti depressor who can help night erection , 'trazadone', if it can make both anti depressor, and help for erection, could be something helpful? Anyway , i am against medicine like anti depressor too, but maybe don't have the choice now you're right.
I believe , like you, that only people who have the same thing can really understand.
The problem is, (according to me), speaking about the problem helps on the moment, but don't heal you (if we could speak to people who would have healed, it would be better), and not speaking is horrible to stay like that alone with your problem and dark ideas.
I would be more optimistic if some medicine would directly help on restaure the tissues... (will definitely speak about pentox to the sexologist). How it doesnt exist in 2007??? Knowing the importance that sex has in a mans life and human life in general (according to me)
Anyway thanks you for recomfort, but i can't be sure of doing nothing 'stupid', coz my life has been too much broken by this crap (i can't enter in detail, but i lost so much in so few time).
Good luck to you too.
Hi Antony,
I'll quote you on 2 points:
QuoteWhen i know some men of 70year old who complain because they lose a little their erection and feel losing their virility, it makes me mad...
I've been witnessing some situations like that, and you just want to knock the guy out... It's usually people who have never been living hard times (like serious diseases) in their life. And it's also unfair for us young guys, but
life is not fair.
My best friend told me lately that sometimes, he "comes" prematurely, and that's a problem to him... (man, you're gonna make me cry :'(!)
Because of a frustrated mood, I only replied: "Mate, If you knew... you would think you're the happiest man on earth". He asked why and I just replied, "never mind."
No need talking to people who don't live the same stuff.
>>>Even if talking doesn't cure the problem, not talking just make it worse.
With all the "sligth" problems I had in the past + this one, now I consider that life is like a poker game in which you have to make the best with the cards you've been given... Even if you have crappy cards...
Sometimes I think about kids with cancer and sick disease like (sorry no translation) mucoviscidose... Why them also?
But there's no need asking why, it's life and if God exists, (sorry for the US guys, I know religion is important to you), He's not here to help people out. He's an observer... But no point talking about religion, sorry.
Just wanted to say that when you say :
QuoteI would be more optimistic if some medicine would directly help on restaure the tissues... (will definitely speak about pentox to the sexologist). How it doesnt exist in 2007??? Knowing the importance that sex has in a mans life and human life in general (according to me)
Sex life is not a priority (not my point of view of course), AIDS and Cancer are...
For us it's a priority cause we're affected by it... :(
But I do think that they'll come up with drugs and treatment (collagenase maybe?) to help you out.
Take the drugs (cialis or viagra) if it can help restore night erections (it might take some time, but you never know).
A depressed mood will also ruin your erections (I know that!, when I feel down, the rest of me is feeling down too ;)) so either take anti depressants (check which ones to take 1st, cause some might ruin the erections I think :-\) or find activities to bring your mood upwards...
I think you should talk to Hawk, Liam and Old man in order to get more advice cause they are more experienced than me.
I know it's hard to get this stuff out of your mind (I don't know if it's possible, but when I do some things I like doing, it takes my mind away (at least 50% of it :) ) from my problems.
"Keep busy" as they say...
I live bad times psychologically too, but the more you think, the more it hurts, (good old vicious circle) so keep busy.
In any case, any time, you can talk I'm here (private message or not).
And don't give up now, I said take 4-5 years to see if it improves or not.
No matter what. You're a man, you have to consider this stuff as a battle, and you're a damn warrior >:(.
A man can take anything.
Ok, over with the "Rocky" stuff...I know it doesn't help much, but you have to take this philosophy for the 4-5 years to come at least. Even if you think it's too hard, grind your teeth and keep fighting. At least a few years. Then you'll see what are your options.
Sorry for the basic imagery, but that's the only thing that works on me. I know it's hard taking the comments of other people who are healthy and lead a normal life and still complain... And some girls won't be nice too, but you have to avoid the bad company for a while. Keep close to the people that cheer you up or make you happy.
Also, regarding girls: as long as you have this problem, stay away from the "Paris Hilton" kind of girls, they won't bring you up. I know that some people (a small %age of the human beings) have absolutely no desire for sex. I think they're called "the angels" or stg like that. Search on the forums or meetic stuff for such a girl. Say you look for a girl with no sex drive. Be direct, no need to explain why.
It can catch the attention of a girl in this situation and she'll bring you more support than a girl who needs sex. It'll cheer you up to be loved for other reasons that your "thing", and you'll take your treatment in the meantime and you'll wait for the erections to come back. There must be a way.
And when it works again, you'll give her a good "slapping" shag to change her opinion about sex :D :D and you'll think about us who told you to keep fighting, see what I mean? :)
I know it sounds silly, but I think finding such a girl could do some good to your mind and heart.
And to conclude,
I know it's hard to take, but you'll take it. And you'll find a way.
4-5 years, that's all I ask you to take before doing anything silly.
Don't isolate yourself, that's not good either. Just keep the good people around you, say "bye bye" to the bad influence people. That's the only way you can bear this s..t for the next 4-5 years.
Ninja:
Well said my young friend! Your advice and wisdom in this matter is very far beyond your years. Just practice what you are preaching and the rest will come easy. Keep up the good work!!!
Regards, Old Man (Almost 78 now)
Hi Old man, I hope Antony and the others will keep walking on no matter what happens.
Yes, I'll practice what I said, that means taking 4-5 years (till I'm 30 or so) to see what I can do to improve the situation, hopefully there will be more treatments for that problem in the years to come.
In the meatime, I'll work in order to live a bit "in the fast lane" (that means make money and achieve some dreams like travelling, owing a Mustang (the car, not the horse ;) ), or any other silly dream that I may want to achieve. Helping others of course is important in my daily life, because it brings some satisfaction. You help others too (as you told me in another post) so you know what I mean...
Sometimes my mom asks me "why do you never relax? You go to your work, then you spend your evenings + weekends in renovating a house (+ the house I live in I should add ;) ), you haven't taken any holidays for the past 3 years..."
I just can't tell her why. She already had a tough life like that (long story, includes her own history + living with my dad, which is really not easy) and I just want to make money in order to make her gifts, and buy her whatever she would need. That + my own dreams to achieve is the reason why I don't stop...
Yes, I probably could do without the Mustang or the trips to Asia / USA, but I guess in our situation we need to "escape" from reality from time to time. That's why I'm working so hard to get the money now... and not in 10 years.
And if I become desperate enough :) I might do a few months stay in a shaolin temple...I know they accept occidentals now... I've got crazy dreams, but it seems I need to achieve them all, just because of this problem... Otherwise I might have done just one or two... It's just that if I deceided to do stg silly in the future (you know... :-\), even in 5,10,20 years or later, I just would like to think before I do that : "I've done and seen things that most people I know never experienced, so I had a nice life after all...".
You know what I mean? But we're not there yet, don't worry ;)
I'll fight. And I'll try to encourage people around me as much as I can.
Bye, thanks for your support!!!
Hello man,
thanks for your message. You look more 'courageous' than me on that point... Wait until 30 , leaving the last 5/6 years of 'yougness' with such a destroying problem, just sounds impossible for me.
Anyway, i know you're right on what you say, but i am just honest enough to reconize that i agree 100% with what you tell me, but i can't apply it ...
Anyway i will write to you a PM and explain you how i see the things and why.
Sad that no 'effective treatment' exists for the problem. For the 'moral' part, we'll speak together, even if one again you're right , but, as for me, i can't see things like that.
Speak to you soon.
Dear Antony,
At some point you may chose to stop feeling sorry for yourself and take more action. Some of us have offered you advice on methods that have helped us get better. Not all methods work, but by taking steps we learn what does work and what does not.
At this point, it appears that your anger and sadness is preventing you from taking proper care of yourself, or moving forward. And yet, you have taken steps previously. When we hit hurdles in life, we either stop or we take them. I hope that you are able to see that if you help yourself, your depression will improve.
Tim
Oh - and by the way - to be perfectly blunt.. I was sexually active by 13, and had had many more lovers than most men by the age of thirty. I did that with Peyronie's Disease for most of that time. I pleased women and had a great time - in fact, the disease gave me ultimately a disease of the spirit as I tried to prove my sexual prowess. You can be whomever you want to be. If you want to remain in pain emotionally, then do so. If you want to heal, then start that journey. But every man here has the same disease that you have, and we are not all complaining about how down we are - we are working on getting better. It is not easy work, but it is worth it. I hope - very much so - that you can come to see that.
Hello Tim,
the only fact is i dont stay like that without doing anything, i have taken the problem at the beginning, and if i would have been well diagnosed, i wouldn't be there now.
We don't have the same thing because you have a peyronie disease and it's not what i have. My problem is not only a curvature during erection, or a pain , but of being impotent, and probably for definitive.
I think it's understable to be depressive when you learn that at my age. Of course, i have the curvature and the pain TOO, but the main fact is that even with medicine , i cant really have normal erections. Moreover , the penis is always cold, it's horrible sensation,, and i have an ejaculatory problem too. I can go where i want, i have the problem on me, and not only at some moments, its always cold, painful, have changed form, really smaller and so impotent.
If i now complain, it's because doctors i saw clearly told me they could do nothing exept giving cialis or viagra.
I would prefer have a peyronie disease , than total impotence.
Anyway i continue searching, i saw lots of doctors, i take medicine for depression, i spoke about my problem, so i do what i can do. But the fact is that the problem is just getting worse....
Anyway i will ask about pentox, try some vaccuum, and continue treating depression, and i dont see what i can do more...
It is good for depression and does not intefere with sexual function ;)
C'est bon!
Antony,
You should consider - strongly - taking pentox at a dose of 400 three times a day, L-arginine at a dose of 2000-6000 mg a day, and viagra or similar at a dose of 25-50 a day (again this is not for erection but for antifibrotic activity). You should get going with a VED. Consider a better evaluation with measurement of testosterone levels, and you should definitely get injected to see if your penis can get hard AT ALL (in other words, regardless of your feelings and emotions).
According to the limited data available for men in similar positions as you, it has taken up to two years to recover - but that is if they do the therapy.
Finally, as I mentioned before, there are surgical reconstructions available for young men whose penis - for whatever reason - has failed. Right now, that may seem impossible or unacceptable. But if all else failed me, I would go for that in a heartbeat. But only after all else had failed.
So, you say that you will "ask about" pentox, but I suggest that you READ about it using the articles that I posted for you over two weeks ago. I am sorry to sound so blunt - for I have great feelings of empathy and sorrow for what you have suffered. But I have also suffered, as have many men here who can no longer have intercourse either. You are not alone. Instead of listing how many ways in which you are different (and therefore "worse") I hope you can start to see how you are not so isolated or alone. You are not the only guy whose life is altered in a way that is depressing and frustrating. Yet you will see, along with the depression, signs of hope and optimism here as well - and that is not because they "don't have it as bad as you". It is due to doing the
work of recovery that we must all do to heal our hearts. And if you listen long enough you will also hear the words of the women who love men despite their failure to have a perfect penis any more.
You can heal either medically or surgically - that is a fact - though it may entail spending time and money and feeling sad. But for now, it may be of more help to get going on the "recovery" part of what you are facing.
Tim
Some responses to this post were moved to the "Psychological Component" topic. Click the link below to go to those posts. Quote from: ninjagaiden on August 27, 2007, 05:39:30 AM
hello everybody
I thought I post my story here coz its more ED-related
I'm 5'9-5'10 240lbs (20% bf, not very healthy at all). I suffer from weak erections at the moment and what seems to be a curve on the left side of my penis. -I suspect this is from too much wanking using my right hand-. The curve is around 15-20 degrees. On occasion I will get weak nocturnal erections but no morning erections. I can however induce a strong manual erection for some strange reason.
My Penile sensitivity is poor. My penis looks small and shrunk in the flaccid state. I've visited my GP who has requested some blood and lipid profiles mainly thyroid, prolactin, DHEA-s and testosterene. My triglycerides are quite high. Cholestrol is normal. I suspect I also have adrenal fatigue- but my doctor doesn't believe in it-
Last year I went to a urologist because of pain I was experiencing at the tip of the penis and he did notice I was quite tender in the urethreal region. They found no trace of infections however.The doctor said its some sort of trauma to the area and its inflammed.
any thoughts or comments would be really appreciated.
Hitman
I know you're right Tim, it's just very very hard to live, at that moment of my life, anyway everybody has his own history, but believe me that was not the good moment to have a problem like that. (it's never the good moment, but especially now).
Anyway i spoke to a doctor specialist about fibrosis in france, i will take apointement on monday, he spoke to me about pentox. Will see with the doc.
Concerning viagra, for reasons of price, i cant take it daily, moreover i have some bad side effects.
I take cialis 2 times a week (it is said to be about a 36hours effect). Doenst help me a lot.
I will see one of the most 'famous' urologists/surgeon in france but can't have apointement before end of november, it's not my fault.
I have been made one injection by the doctor, it induces a 'sort of erection', but smaller, painful, with a curvature, and non sensitive.
So my penis can react to an injection even if it's not pleasant ( like something totally non elastic), but it has totally changed of form, size and sensation.
Thanks for advice, and one again don't think i only complain without trying things. I hope to recover medically but not surgically.
The fact is also all that costs a lot of money, and i have lost a lot in 6 months, for absolutely nothing. So i am far from being rich...
I know that i am not alone, and i don't try to compare, but i say it's not possible to have worse than i have concerning a sexual problem : total impotence with loss of size, of sensitivity, curvature, pain, ejaculation problem, sorry but its very hard to live, i maintain especially when you are young. Its not a comparison, its (sadly for me) a fact, and it's another that doctors here quickly live you alone if they dont know what to do.
No problem for you to sound 'blunt',you just say what you think and its not a problem, as for me i have just told what i live, that's all.
Liam, what do you say is good on depression and doesn't interfer with sexual function? qu'est ce qui est bon? lol
Antony
Wellbutrin is the name of the drug. :)
Vouloir, c'est pouvoir!
HitMan,
Have you thought about trying a VED? You can read about them here:
https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,439.0.html
This section is a good way to "catch up" on some of the posts quickly (Thanks Angus!)
Another thought is to look at different medical treatment options for weight loss. I have two friends who have had surgery (gastric bypass, I believe) and are totally different people now. They say many other health problems they had dissapeared with the extra weight. One told me her breathing problems improved and she has more energy (she's almost "hyper" now). I am mentioning this because there have been discussions of Peyronies Disease being related to sugar levels in the body. Also, it is just for your health.
Good luck!
hey Liam
thanks for the reply. I will read and look into the VED and discuss it with my doctor should my ED continue further after I've gotten rid of the weight.
as for losing weight, no I will not go down the surgery track. I'm very determined to get rid of it through an exercise and diet regime.
regards
Diet and excersise is great. George can offer some good advice as far as diet and nutrition.
If your doc will give you a Rx for the VED, your insurance may pay.
hmm whats an Rx?
(forgot to say that I live in NZ by the way)
Hitman:
Top of the morning to you!
RX = A written prescription for drugs (medicine), medical equipment or anything in the medical field that requires to be prescribed by a board certified and/or licensed physican, etc.
Welcome aboard and keep looking around the threads and topics of the forum. There is a wealth of information about Peyronies Disease, VEDs and other alternative therapies for men's health problems.
Old Man
ok thanks for the replies guys.
I did want to ask George about what supplements he has found to be useful for ED or Peyronies Disease in general.
How are your night time erections? Have you tried low dose (25mg) Viagra at bedtime?
BTW, I saw a past post you mention seminal fluid leaking after using Viagra. That part is normal. It is "lubrication" ;)
I think it would be a good idea to use medicines to have frequent erections. Keep your blood flowing.
Depression can also cause ED (more acurate term). I think depression is making the physical symptoms worse. Attack this problem from all sides. I take Wellbutrin. There are other drugs. Also, excersise!
Hello all,
Liam, to answer to your question, no i dont have night time erection, no more than morning ones, i lost all of them. I tried one or 2 times viagra before sleeping, but these medicine have some bad side effects, and are too expensive, so cant take too often.
But i've tried to take cialis several time (anyway it doesn't give me good erections coz of the fibrosis), and i have the feeling after a certain time, the body is 'used to it', and the product makes me less and less effect... :-(
Yes i mentioned the seminal fluid. In fact,before my problem, i had seminal fluid like everybody during exitation, but now, as soon as i take something that tries to make me erect, (viagra, cialis), as soon as the penis becomes a little hard, there is a big quantity of this fluid that goes out from the urethra. I don't know why, but it's not really clean. Anyway, that's not the most important point for sure, but it's not cool.
To finish, depression is good for nobody, and can affect libido and erection. But i am in depression since last month really, since i was told by the doctors they can do nothing. But i had this problem of penis since already five months. It's not depression which created my problem for sure, even if of course depression makes everything going worse. But you're right to attack by this side too, and i do it, i am treated for depression. But it changes nothing to the rest of the probem (physical part).
Ninja, for sure people who have 'small problems' and think it's 'the end of the world' make me laugh... But i think we have to have a big problem to realize it. Sometimes, everybody complain about stupid things, nothing serious. But the day when it happens a serious thing... Anyway, speak to you in PM.
Tim, it's no problem to say what you think, you gave me medical advice, and that was what i asked for, so it's cool. For the moral thing, nobody who becomes totally impotent so young can realize how hard to live it is. Anyway that's not the matter, i asked if there were medical things for impotence/fibrosis, etc, you told me about pentox, daily viagra, anti depressor, etc, so it's cool if it can help, for the rest just believe it's very very very hard to live, especially in my situation, but it's no way to speak about that, i cant explain all in english, and moreover it's not a psychological forum. Just as i told, i try to do the things, and don't just 'complain'. But i think you would be out of hope and force living my last 6 months...(i dont have a peyronie as for me).
So thank you for advice and help, and for the rest, nobody can help or judge.
Thanks everybody
Antony
just out of curiousity would a lack of nocturnal or morning erections indicate a hormonal or neurological problem?
Hitman,
The cause of the loss of night-time erections could be for the reasons you mentioned or other physical issues ranging from impaired arterial flow, venous leakage, and possibly other physical issues not occurring to me at the moment.
I personally think psychological issues can impact night-time erections. I have never awaken with an erection on a night I was wrestling with a traumatic issue.
Do you ever get an erection day or night?
I moved several posts by Tim, Ninja, myself, and other from this ED thread to the "Psychological Component" topic since they had much more to do with that aspect. Moving the posts, making quotes, and the redirect links was not real fun (sorry for the whining) . Most of them made no direct mention of ED. You can go to these posts by clicking the link below.
Quote from: ninjagaiden on August 27, 2007, 05:39:30 AM
Try 25 mg Viagra at bedtime every night if you can. It helps with night itme erections. It is a very low dosage and easily tolerated. I have severe headaches with the three major ED drugs. I can handle this. I hope you can, too.
Liam
Quote from: Hawk on August 28, 2007, 08:11:22 AM
Hitman,
The cause of the loss of night-time erections could be for the reasons you mentioned or other physical issues ranging from impaired arterial flow, venous leakage, and possibly other physical issues not occurring to me at the moment.
I personally think psychological issues can impact night-time erections. I have never awaken with an erection on a night I was wrestling with a traumatic issue.
Do you ever get an erection day or night?
I used to at some stage. now I don't get any day erections whatsoever. On occasion i will get semi-spontaneous nightly erections. thats about it. I suspect I have a hormonal problem + probably impaired arterial flow because of my excess bodyweight. however there might be a third problem. I've been experiencing some sensation of heat in my inner thighs and around my anal area as well.
Hitman,,,Low testosterone will affect your ability to have day or nightime erections and so will stress. I've been through it all,,when i get my stress level down i begin to have night time erections again,,not a lot,,but at least i get them..
Liam is right about taking 25 mg of viagra,,i would suggest taking about an hour before bedtime and then eat something light about 20 minutes after taking it, and maybe a Tylenol,,,,this will help avoid getting the headache...
LIAM,,,,I've been using the viagra now for about 10yrs,,100 mg,,,for the first 2 to 3 yrs i had the bad headache's , after that i haven't had any side effects....Now that i am 62 yrs, i am trying to cut back to about 50 mg, I've noticed since my lower intestines was damaged 2 yrs ago by a parasite, lately when i take a 100 mg it just makes my insides hurt some and it's not comfortable afterwards, so i'm making myself cut back,,,otherwise i really don't experience any side effects....
Hope this helps,,,,,,,Kimo
thanks for the reply guys. Viagra I might postpone till after I lose my weight. the reason is because I'm not too sure my doctor will prescribe it for me unless I drop that excess body-fat first. He is centered around the excess BF being the source of all my problems- and I kinda agree with that- and wants to see if my condition improves after I lose my weight. as for stress the only stress is practical work from the chem lab. finding the right solvent system is a bummer and discovering from day-to-day that I'm not very well suited for labwork has kinda blurred my self-confidence. >:(
Hello all,
Just a question, do you know (in the usa) ALL the tests /exams, that are done in theses cases of impotence?
(like radiologic test or blood tests, i dont know if there are some in your country that i wasnt told here)?
I did blood test, and RIM (reasonance imagery magnetic, i think it's the word in english).
And eccho doppler.
Thanks.
Like I said in the original post, it is a long post, but well worth reading (IMHO).
https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,23.msg10993.html#msg10993
It is a discussion by a very talented urologist about how he would work up erectile dysfunction. In his discussion (which is about one man), he touches on all of the tests, and their strengths and weaknesses.
Tim
I'm sure this subject has been covered but some information would be
helpfull. I seem to have nocturnal erections at times. I'm not sure if all
the time or just by the chance I wake up at that time. Yes It is bent
like the end of a golf club but it is a firm erection. My question is why
am I not able to have a awake erection? My guess is that it is a mental
issue as the bend and look removes any idea as to what it could be
used for. My disease has been stable for some time now and I do not
have any pain.
Those of you that know me around here know that I am always trying something new. My latest little experiment is Tongkat Ali. I recently purchased a bottle of Herbal Powers Tongkat Ali, which seems to be the brand blessed by the Malay government. This stuff supposedly elevates Testosterone naturally and without the harmful side effects of replacement approaches. So I read the label. It basically says no more than 8 caps per day maximum. For "general health" 2 to 4 caps per day. It also says that I "should see the results in about four days". So I decide to take 4 per day, one every six hours and see what happens. They recommend taking it for a few days then taking a break, then repeating the pattern. So yesterday was my fourth day which passed rather uneventfully. But then last night, something very interesting occurred. Out of nowhere, I actually had a "wet dream" for the first time in about 25 years. I was blown away. Is this some sort of strange coincidence or does this stuff really work as hyped (a real rarity on the supplement front)? I'll let you all be the ones to critique my experience. As for me, I think this is one supplement I am going to continue taking. I am really curious what possible impact it might have on the Peyronies issue. - George
George... the stuff looks promising doesn't it? Are you going to take a break from it after the 4 day round? If so, and you do another round, post if you notice in the next round anything like the nocturnal activities that you experienced or anything that suggests it was the Tongkat kicking in. Fascinating.
Hello all,
i would like to know something, has somebody passed some MRI to diagnose their peyronie, or to confirm it? And is the fibrosis plaque is visible on imagery exams? (MRI, echography?). Because i'm asking myself something, in the peyronie disease, you have a curvature and pain at erection because of fibrosis, but most of cases, it doesn't make you impotent. And i was told in most of cases we can see the fibrosis at exams. And as for me, despite of my terrible and numerous symptoms i had told here ( total impotence, lose of sensitivity, small curvature on right side, torsion at basis of penis, hardness of tunica albuginea, big loss of size of penis, loss of elasticity, ejaculatory trouble since the begining of my problem .... all that following a paintful intercourse some months ago), the MRI's i did (i made 2) show nothing.... and the same for eccho doppler. But the doctor says with these symptoms, there is necessary fibrosis in penile tissues. So are the MRI machines in france crap? How is it possible that a fibrosis which doesn't create impotence , like in peyronie, is visible on MRI, and one which creates impotence and these numerous symptoms, isn't visible?
And i would like to know if you have some information here concerning the genetic cells therapy or something like that, to 'recreate' a 'safe' tunica albuginea , coz i still can't (and will never) imagine to put a penile prothesis.
Thanks
The abstract below just shows some imaging techniques that are used and one unusual finding.
You said:
Quotetotal impotence, lose of sensitivity, small curvature on right side, torsion at basis of penis, hardness of tunica albuginea, big loss of size of penis, loss of elasticity, ejaculatory trouble since the begining of my problem
With what you describe, a doctor should be able to pick up on something concrete (no pun intended) instead of some ethereal plaque. Was your doctor able to see and document all your symptoms? You may have more than one thing going on.
Try searching Google about regrowing penis tissue.
You said:
QuoteHow is it possible that a fibrosis which doesn't create impotence , like in peyronie, is visible on MRI, and one which creates impotence and these numerous symptoms, isn't visible?
Thats a good question for your doctor.
QuoteG. Helweg1 , F. Frauscher1, H. Strasser2, R. Knapp1, W. Judmaier3, D. zur Nedden1 and A. Reissigl2
(1) Department of Radiology II, University of Innsbruck, Anichstr. 35, A-6020 Innsbruck, Austria
(2) Department of Urology, University of Innsbruck, Anichstr. 35, A-6020 Innsbruck, Austria
(3) MRI Institute, University of Innsbruck, Anichstr. 35, A-6020 Innsbruck, Austria
Received: 16 May 1994 Revised: 12 December 1994 Accepted: 10 May 1995
Abstract We report the case of a 44-year-old male presenting with deviation of the penis during erection. Upon physical and clinical examination the patient did not have the typical findings of Peyronie's disease, therefore he was admitted for further evaluation by conventional sonography, duplex Doppler ultrasound, endourethral ultrasound and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI). Endourethral ultrasound and MRI provided evidence of Peyronie's disease with atypical involvement of the corpus spongiosum and, in addition, demonstrated nonpalpable plaques in the septum of the penis.
Source: http://www.springerlink.com/content/ukp6614284862302/
One further point. MOST men with Peyronies Disease do have reduced hardness with their erections.
Hello, thanks for answers.
To Hawk, yes, but lots of men with peyronies can have erection, despite of the fibrosis. It can be painful, disformed, or maybe like you say with reduced hardness, but it doesn't make you impotent organically. And as i told im asking why a fibrosis like this is visible on MRI and why my fibrosis, which is probably really worse, is not visible.
To Liam, thanks for precisions.
About the doctor, or the doctors coz i saw a lot coz most of them are not competent, the last i saw says there was a penile injury at origin, but not a fracture. But something had broken inside my penis and the scar tissue created fibrosis. Fibrosis creates symptoms like impotence, reduced size of penis, hardness of tunica albuginea, curvature, loss of elasticity. Then the rest would be a consequence: the loss of sensitivity coz the penis has changed anatomy, so maybe it compresses a nerve, and the ejaculatory trouble, because the area where it's no more right in penis, makes that the ejaculation is stopped at a moment in urethra, and despite of going out strongly, it drips (drop after drop without any force and with no orgasm and sensation). But he says that without being convinced, and coz the MRI shows nothing , he is lost and says we can do anything. Aparently this type of problem is rare. Doctors left me alone...
So i wanted to know if some of you had passed MRI or dopller and the imagery shows this fibrosis. But the link you gives me proves some of them are not so visible. But they say dificult peyronies to see are visible on MRI so (in this case, plaques in the septum of the penis. The MRI i made say the septum is normal...) Do you know what is a 'endourethral ultrasound'??
About the question, if i ask you, it's precisely coz the doctor says nothing and doesnt know. I was just 'hoping' somebody had same thing and would have known ... My doctor (who is a 'famous' specialist) doenst know and gave me... cialis...
I am reposting this link that Amigo made in another topic. I either have not seen this study posted before or it did not register if I did. Thanks Amigo!
Quote from: amigo on October 08, 2007, 10:48:42 PM
...there was a small study in 2003 indicating success at treating erectile dysfunction with pycnogenol and arginine. Here's a link to the abstract... I'm pretty sure it has been posted on here before, but just in case:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&list_uids=12851125&cmd=Retrieve&indexed=google
It isn't clear from the study whether the arginine is necessary or not. It is pretty clear that the pycnogenol IS. It's moderately expensive (about $25 a month) but still less than a copay for my insurance covered prescriptions. If anyone else has found a study that contradicts this one, i'd love to know. The quoted 80- 92% improvement is pretty impressive. Any extra bloodflow down there seems to be a good thing.
Thanks for the link, sadly the study is said to be on men with an ed 'without organical dysfonction', so, a psychological one, where nothing organic is touched in the penis... Interesting anyway.
Quote from: antony on October 12, 2007, 09:49:02 AM
...sadly the study is said to be on men with an ed 'without organical dysfonction', so, a psychological one, where nothing organic is touched in the penis... Interesting anyway.
Anthony,
It did NOT say these were men without organic ED. It said that they did not go through steps to confirm that it was organic ED. In other words, they assumed this was organic ED rather than psychological issues but did not clinically confirm this. Surely there is no way 40 men with ED could be picked at random without the majority of them having organic based ED. Most Ed has a physiological bases and is not solely psychological.
Ok thanks Hawk, i didn't understand it like that.
Anyway, in my case, the cialis permits to have a sort of erection, also when i received an injection for the test i can have a short erection, but coz the penis has changed too much anatomy, it's crap erection, i'm sure it's not cialis or the injection which are the problem, it's the anatomy of penis now. So each product that i can take that can help erections doesn't help me in fact, coz it works, but gives the type of erection i can have now, i mean with smaller size, no sensation, albuginea totally hard, no softness, no elasticity,curvature ,no feeling in the intercourse, etc, etc...
What i need to find is a product that can remake the albuginea soft but the doctors doesnt know.I dont know how it can have changed so much and the exams dont really show it.
QuoteThe study included 40 men, aged 25-45 years, without confirmed organic erectile dysfunction.
I got hung up on this, too. Why not confirm an organic origin if you are going to publish a study? Still I agree with what Hawk said. The results show it is, at least, worth a try.
hmm maybe the results would not have been the same?
To liam: i am not totaly bilingual, so maybe i dont understand some meanings, but in the sentence 'study on men without confirmed organic ED', as for me i understand so that its a psychological ED, so the stuff works coz precisely there are no fibrosis, or arterial problem, or whatever organic. If the problem was organically proved, why not precising it ? As you say, if you publish a study, i think you are suposed to distinguish and precise the origin of the ED ...
Anyway, as you say, worth a try maybe, but have to be careful with the prices of everything, knowing most of them are useless... and exprensive.
I will look to see where i can find that.
I think the study is less than ideally designed in many ways. For one thing, we can't be certain that arginine had anything to do with the success of pycnogenol. There was essentially no improvement in the first month when arginine was given alone. It would have been extremely useful for them to have had a fourth month where subjects were given only pycnogenol, taking arginine out of the protocol all together. We also can't know for sure that it doesn't simply require a month of taking arginine before symptoms improve and that the addition of pycnogenol for the second and third months was irrelevant. That being said... a 92% improvement reaches a certain threshold for me at which I'm willing to experiment with it. Of course, the italian ionto studies also showed a high percentage of improvement, yet Levine's American study had nil. So, while no single small study can prove anything with certainty, I think it at least gives us another avenue to explore.
As to physiological vs. psychological origins, I have to say that early on with Peyronies Disease - primarily before I was diagnosed but even for a couple years after that - I had a significant amount of erectile dysfunction which I would now attribute to psychological causes in reaction to the phsyiological changes that had occurred. If you suddenly start having weaker erections and other gradual symptoms but don't have any idea of the cause, I think it is really easy to slip into a sexual panic during which you have a lack of confidence which significantly exacerbates the physiological symptoms.
Once I realized that, things got markedly better (never exactly back to normal), but that realization didn't come until after I had tried some herbs that made erections stronger and more frequent. It was only then that I was able to get my confidence back. Of course, I stopped taking the herbs (yohimbe/horny goatweed) because they seemed to cause me a fair amount of heart palpitations and irritability (likely more the yohimbe than the HGW). Now I've found other herbs and vitamins that help compensate for the physiological origins without noticeable side effects: Ginkgo, ZMA, and possibly Pycnogenol (i'm still waiting to see if it does anything for me without the arginine).
So, even if the Pycnogenol/arginine ONLY helps 92% of men with dysfunction of psychological origins, I think there may still be a place for it here. Although, to be honest, if they were able to quantitatively measure the Nitric Oxide increase supposed by the study, it would stand to reason that the treatment would work in both psych/physiological cases.
Amigo makes several good points.
I also want to clarify the language in the study as I understand it.
This study did NOT say, " 40 men with confirmed psychologically based ED" (so we cannot conclude that)
It also did not say, "40 men confirmed NOT to have organic Peyronies Disease" (so we cannot conclude this)
They were not CONFIRMED period.
Again, most cases of ED have at least some component of nerve, vascular, or nitric oxide synthesis as a component. These are caused by many issues from a wide range of diseases, injuries, and hormonal issues.
My gut feeling is that confirmation is a long investigative affair. How many of us here have been CONFIRMED to have organic ED? It is assumed because we have Peyronies Disease or prostatectomy, or diabetes that it is a causative factor. If you run a study of 100 men that have ED after a prostectomy you cannot state in a study that you confirmed organic ED unless you trace nerve pathways. A man could have psychological issues even after a prostatectomy which usually damages nerves. If he could have psychological issues you cannot state it is confirmed organic ED. While you can not scientifically state organic ED is confirmed in these men, from a practical view you can state that it is organic ED.
I think that while absolute scientific confirmation of any diagnosis is the gold standard, I also agree with Hawk that it requires fairly rigorous investigation to achieve that standard and I am not willing to discount studies of patients with erectile dysfunction of unconfirmed origins. Personally I feel safe in assuming that at least some of the men in that study had physiological origins and that it was exceedingly likely to have been more than the 8% who showed no improvement during the study. However, it is much more important to me to see the results verified by others before I'd feel comfortable offering a guarantee of results. :P
Hello amigo,
I will just say that maybe you're right about some points, and sometimes, a change in your body is hard psychologically, and that it's right sometimes that psychological increases physiological problem. But it's not all cases like that, and often, there is an organic problem and that's it, the psychology has nothing to do with it, and i say that because it's sometimes 'dangerous' to speak about psychological when its organic. Some doctors in my case, at the beginning, said it was nothing, it was psychological, because they could see nothing. But these types of diagnoses are dangerous, coz it made me lose lots of time, when my problem was totaly organic. i.e., someone who experiences priapism, can lose all his erections, size, etc, and when the doctor makes exams, sometimes we can see anything. But the fact is, he has become impotent, and often for definitive, coz the erectile tissues have changed anatomy. The impotence won't be a matter of psychological problem coz the person saw changes in his penis, but a total and 100% organic problem (despite the fact there wont be any impressive curvature in example).
Hawk: but i think it's stupid, on a study like that , to say strange and not clear sentences like 'patients without confirmed organic ED', it lets a doubt about the sense. I mean, or its organic, and they say its organic ED, or its not organic , and they say its psychologic. In my opinion its easy to distinguish: organical, there is an origin: peyronie, fibrosis, shok during intercourse, penile fracture, priapism, some types of prostate problems, etc, etc, and there are visible symptoms: loss of size, curvature, change of anatomy, hardness of tunica albuginea, loss of elasticity, of flexibility, etc, etc....
If NO change at all, NO symptom at all exept ED in itself, NO physical origin at the problem, then its psychological (and there are often reasons for that, that a pscychologist can help to find).
Anyway, i will see where i can find these products and why not try? But if viagra doesn't work so much i.e , i dont know if something like that is better.
In my case, i should atack the origine of problem, hardness of tunica, fibrosis, etc, but there is nothing for that really, so just can take some medicine for help but not heal, and even with that the results are crap...
Antony - I completely agree that sometimes a broken cigar is just a broken cigar, and that psychology doesn't play a role in all cases. I don't have any studies on psychological vs. physiological erectile dysfunction at my fingertips, but I've certainly seen a turnaround in the medical community in recent years and think that most would agree that there is an underlying physiological cause of dysfunction in the majority of cases. Since participants in this study were apparently not screened to eliminate those with physiological etiology, it would stand to reason that the majority in this group also suffer from organic causes.
I am in no way defending this research in terms of its pertinence to Peyronie's as the study was not conducted to investigate the effects of pycnogenol/arginine in patients with Peyronie's Disease, but instead in those with erectile dysfunction (of non-specific origin). I'm sure that that's why Hawk very approriately copied and pasted it to the "Erectile Dysfunction" thread as opposed to wherever I originally posted it. I also can't speak more knowledgeably about the validity of the study since I've only read the abstract and not the published research in full (somehow I feel better spending $50 on pills than $50 to download a copy of a study... hmmm... I'm going to have to think about the logic on that one.)
As to a medicine which cures the fibrosis, yeah... we're all hoping and waiting for it. Results have been pretty discouraging time and time again. In the meantime, I'm willing to try some other options in order to treat the symptoms until we find a genuine cure for the underlying condition. It is REALLY frustrating to throw money down the drain with each new hope for a cure (I'd probably have a vacation home in the tropics if I could get a refund of what I've spent over the past decade on things that turned out to be useless.) Yet, this willingness to try new things has lead me to find some treatments that have worked and are working to make things better than they were.
By the way, I know you said that you're not fluently bilingual, but your understanding and communication in English appear very clear and concise from my point of view. As an adult learner of a second language (spanish), I know the challenges and appreciate the effort you must have put into dominating English.
Amigo, yes i agree more like that, and i'm sure efectively psychology sometimes play a role, but i was pointing the fact that sometimes it's not the case, and there is nothing that makes more mad , than a doctor, or a proach, who says 'its psychological' when you know it's not, and when in fact they say that because they don't know what to say, and a doctor/sexologist often prefers saying 'it's a psycholigical problem' than 'i am not competent in that precise problem, i don't know'. I'm pointing this fact, coz 1st , it's 'dangerous' for the patient, that loses a time, and sometimes feels guilty after ('if the doctor says that it's in my head, so maybe he's right?'), and once the doctor says that, your proaches ask you 'so, what diagnose?', you answer 'no diagnose', and also your proaches say 'its psychological', and it's horrible, coz 1) you suffer very hard, from something you know it's organical and real 2) you know the doctors is wrong and won't help you (you dont cure a fibrosis, an organical impotence, and all my symptoms by 'taking an anxiolitic and going to a psychologist) 3) nobody believes you, you suffer and must 'prove' it, it's just crazy.... But, as you say, sometimes, 'a broken cigar is just a broken cigar', and i wanted to confirm that. I've spoken to lots of people who sadly lose lots of time and suffered twice more with diagnoses like 'psychological' (in a problem like mine of course, but also in cases of problems like pudendal nerve, non bacterial prostatisis, in fact all very serious and hard problems, that exams and tests have often lots of dificulties to show...)
Concerning the study, i don't really know concerning peyronie (as for me, i dont have a peyronie exactly); but anyway it's interesting to see every studies, every possibility, for sure...
Apparently, yes, the medicine that cures fibrosis is not here, and living totally impotent so young and with a deformed penis is very hard when you know there is nothing to do... Hope is very important, and aparantly,very few things permit hope and optimism in this case :-( . And i totally see what you mean concerning the spent money in that crap, that would have permitted you to buy a vacation home in tropics, it's the same for me, in 'only' 8 months, i have spent an incredible money!!!-with no results....)
Thanks for my communication in english, yes it's quite hard and sometimes i am not sure if i will be understood, or if i have well understood (moreover when its medical terms).
92.5 is a huge number. It is incredible. It's so high I have trouble believing it. :( I may still try it, though. ;)
Quote1: J Sex Marital Ther. 2003 May-Jun;29(3):207-13. Links
Treatment of erectile dysfunction with pycnogenol and L-arginine.Stanislavov R, Nikolova V.
Seminological Laboratory SBALAG, Maichin Dom, Sofia, Bulgaria. rstanik@abv.bg
Penile erection requires the relaxation of the cavernous smooth muscle, which is triggered by nitric oxide (NO). We investigated the possibility of overcoming erectile dysfunction (ED) by increasing the amounts of endogenous NO. For this purpose, we orally administered Pycnogenol, because it is known to increase production of NO by nitric oxide syntase together with L-arginine as substrate for this enzyme. The study included 40 men, aged 25-45 years, without confirmed organic erectile dysfunction. Throughout the 3-month trial period, patients received 3 ampoules Sargenor a day, a drinkable solution of the dipeptide arginyl aspartate (equivalent to 1.7 g L-arginine per day). During the second month, patients were additionally supplemented with 40 mg Pycnogenol two times per day; during the third month, the daily dosage was increased to three 40-mg Pycnogenol tablets. We obtained a sexual function questionnaire and a sexual activity diary from each patient. After 1 month of treatment with L-arginine, a statistically nonsignificant number of 2 patients (5%) experienced a normal erection. Treatment with a combination of L-arginine and Pycnogenol for the following month increased the number of men with restored sexual ability to 80%. Finally, after the third month of treatment, 92.5% of the men experienced a normal erection. We conclude that oral administration of L-arginine in combination with Pycnogenol causes a significant improvement in sexual function in men with ED without any side effects.
PMID: 12851125 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
The pycnogenol seems to be a french bark from a tree, i will see if i can find it here, but it seems to be expensive (30euros for 40 caps).
Concerning l-arginine, do you know if we can find it everywhere, or if there a special marks,better than others (like different type of vitamine E) ? I will try to buy some things coz i cant just stay like this, nothing will be improved 'alone' by itself for sure.
Pycnogenol is indeed manufactured from French Pine Bark. The flagship manufacturer and inventor/discoverer is a company named Flavay which is based in France. Flavay's products are very expensive, but reputed to be the best. But other generic pycnogenol products are available. As for Arginine, the best Arginine product, hands down, in my opinion is San VasoFlow, since it contains co-factors that facilitate the NO process in a beneficial way. But don't expect too much. I don't know how the study managed to come up with the numbers they did, but I have been taking daily doses of both pycnogenol and arginine for as long as I can remember. My Peyronies IS improved, but it is not eliminated by any means. So this is not a silver bullet unless I am just unlucky enough to be part of the 7.5% who did not recover. And somehow I doubt that to be the case. - George
George - the Pycnogenol/Arginine study addressed erectile dysfunction. It is NOT a cure for Peyronie's. Peyronie's is never mentioned in the study. So don't feel like you're the odd man out.
Whoops! I guess I'm just not paying attention to which thread I'm in. :-[ ED is certainly a lot easier to treat and this might be a good combination for it. Arginine is an old standby in this regard. I have to admit, that it is the first time I have seen pycnogenol mentioned as a possible treatment. - George
@ georges : 'ED is certainly a lot easier to treat ' .... i would like you're right, but believe me, organical ED is not easy to treat, i would say impossible...
"Easier" does not equal "easy". Sorry, I did not mean to convey that ED is always easy to treat. But certainly many cases of ED are easy to treat and the same is definitely not true of Peyronies. - George
Quote from: simone on November 04, 2007, 03:27:04 AM
The BIG problem was the cialis, which caused constant problems with sleeping accompanied with major sinus stuffiness. Levitra was then prescribed resulting with the same unfortunate side-effects - will try Viagra next, but not encouraged. A friend had suggested an herbal alternative, but that one has Yohimbe, which again is energizing. If working a fulltime job was not an issue, perhaps I could take ED meds nightly and eventually my system would adapt. Presently considering taking cialis with either ambien, klonapin, or even trazodone (although I unfortunately don't respond to the erection side-effect, it does sedate).
Surprised I find so little about these side-effects of cialis, etc. on the net concerning sleep problems and sinus disturbances. Any possible solution one's discovered for some combination to tolerate such side-effects? Thanks - could really use the input (the doctor is not overly responsive).
MOVED BY MODERATOR
I get severe headaches from the ED drugs. I can handle a lower dose of Viagra (25mg or 50mg). Viagra and the headaches don't stay with you as long as Levitra and Cialis. I also take Tylenol with it. If I take 100 mg, I get great results. I end up taking stronger pain meds, though, and lying down. Sometimes, however, its worth it. ;)
The following several posts were moved from "Oral Treatments because they deal exclusively with a discussion of ED drugs and supplements. I inserted the quote in this post to connect the conversation.
Hawk
Yeah, I get the slight headache and nasal stuffiness, as well, but I take Advil or Tylenol, drink lots of water and use Afrin nasal spray for the stuffiness. It makes the symptoms manageable. As Liam says, in the end, it's worth it to have good erections when you need them. Sorry you're having trouble though.
Nemo
I would tinker with the dose at first. Try a half tablet daily - you might try it during the day to see if the congesting effects have worn off by bedtime. Also, try Afrin nasal spray now and then (try to avoid nightly use - I am currently weaning off of too much afrin use over two weeks time). I also use the "BreatheRite" nasal strips that hold the nostrils open a bit better. Finally, I also find I do better on my side sometimes sleeping.
I find that a third of a 20 mg Cialis helps my erectle quality without too many side effect - so I think it's utility for the PAV cocktail should also be present at that dose (IOW, a dose that dose SOMETHING to me should also be doing something to my Peyronies fibrosis. This may not be a safe assumption).
Tim
Welcome to the Forum Simone. We all thank you for contributing by posting questions and comments.
Simone, first I would highly recommend staying away from yohimbe. It is not a safe herb in my opinion. If anything, try Horney Goat Weed (HGW).
Also, every one should keep in mind that Afrin and every other oral or spray nasal decongestant is a vaso constrictor. Sprays MAY restrict their activity to the nasal cavity but drugs like sudafed are the first line of defense to get rid of an erection that lasts too long. Taking these drugs with Viagra , especially the oral drugs is likely counter productive. While I have had many of the side effects including significant delayed onset back aches from Cialis, I have never had them interfere with sleep. I now gauge the "ready period" after taking Levitra (my preferred drug) by the stuffiness, and the facial flush. I do not mind it at all. Fortunately none have ever given me a headache.
I like the idea of Cialis and may try it again but those back aches last too long and are NOT worth enduring. I have researched in vain to find out exactly what caused the delayed backache. Does anyone know?
Hawk, I'll take a wild guess and say that its probably because the drug inhibits another enzyme, which is responsible for those muscle aches.
I appreciate the guess but I even if that is accurate, it still leaves much unanswered. What other functions are impacted by the same process. Why would it only impact back muscles as opposed to biceps or quads?
I have wondered if it is in any way connected with kidneys since that is the area the pain centers around.
Simone,,i agree with Liam,,,,try using a lower dose of viagra...I've been using Viagra now for over 10 yrs. In the last couple of years i have reduced my dosage from 100 mg to 50 and then to 25 mg....When using the 100 after a few years i didn't have any side effects any more,,,maybe a little once in awhile, but now when using only 25mg i don't have any at all but have good erections..I agree that once in awhile a 100 mg will give ya rock hard and thats good, but i don't need it everytime....
Like Tim says,,,tinker with the dose and see what works best for you..And also,,my pharmacist says just take a tylenol if you get the headaches, it works great.
It takes a little time to see what works good for you,,,,Hang in there.
Kimo
Kimo, you've been on viagra longer than anyone I know - so I'd like to ask you a question. Have you ever had times when the viagra seemed to not work as effectively?
I use 25mg due to Peyronie's leaving me with a head that doesn't get good blood flow like it used to. The viagra definitely gives me better erections. I've only been using viagra in my current relationship (about 2 months), but something weird happened. When I started using it a couple months ago, I would get semi-erect or fully erect just from making out prior to sex. Then one day, like a light turning off, I didn't get that pre-sex wood ... and I think I panicked, because I'd already been postulating "what if the viagra ever stops working?" I don't know if it was psychosomatic or what, but I started having performance anxiety. I think it's a mix of being only 36 and using viagra ... I have anxiety about a future where I'm dependant on a drug for good sex ... and what if the drug stops working.
I jumped to 50mg, and it does the trick, and I'm now on L-arginine, which I think is going to allow me to drop back down to 25mg of viagra. But I'm just wondering over your 10 years of viagra usage, has it been the same exact effect every time, or are there times when you find it to work better than others?
Thanks for your advice. Clearly, the drug is still working just fine for you after a decade, which makes me feel better myself.
Nemo
Nemo
Yes, i think it's mostly in our minds because thats where sex starts first anyway's....I had a very similiar experience but a little different a few years ago,,had to see a sex shrink about something, couldn't believe it was happening to me ,,the hornest man on earth......HA.....
The viagra has always worked well but for awhile i could not ejaculate,,,he told me to just relax and enjoy the feeling of having sex and it would come back...He was right.. I learned to relax and enjoy the moment and i haven't ever had the problem anymore...
I do know that 25mg of viagra dosen't give me the same hard as 100mg but i have a hard time using that much anymore because of the damage i sustained from getting a parasite 2 yrs ago...It really did a number on my system, so now when i take 100mg of viagra it makes me feel bad in my gut..If i am feeling pretty good and want a good hard i will take a 100mg,,but most of the time now i do a 50 or 25 and i get by without any gut pain...Another thing for me if i take it late in the evening i don't get much good rest, it makes my system work all night, erection after erection which i don't really mind because it feels good to have one, but then i don't rest...
So, my suggestion for you is to relax and enjoy the moment, my opinion is that you are having performance anxiety,,,i've been there..Another thing don't worry about becoming dependant on viagra, even tho i have been using it now for about 10yrs or more i can say that almost 50 percent of the time now i can get a good enough hard for sex without taking anything.
I want to try using HornyGoat Weed but am shy because of my sensitive gut....L arginine really gives me a gut ache so i can't use that either.
I hope this helps some, also always feel free to e-mail me if you have anything you want to talk about, i'm good about answering..My e-mail address is in my profile...
kimo
Has anyone tried Super-L? It sure works for me. Directions call for 2 capsules, one capsule is all I need and works for me in about an hour and lasts for 3 to 4 days. Side effect for me are 2 - slight headache and slight nasal congestions for the 1st day. I've used it about once a month for a couple of years.
Ingredients (and comments of each) are as follows pulled off the website of a supplier in Canada:
Main ingredient
Eurycoma Longifolia, or popularly known as Tongkat Ali
Each Libidus capsule contains:
Eurycoma Longifolia (154 mg) - The most potent herbal aphrodisiac in the world.
Flos Catharmi (24.5 mg) - Activates blood circulation to genitals, removes blood stasis and relieves pain.
Rhizoma Cucurmae Longae (49 mg) - Helps to eliminate blood stasis, promote the flow of "qi" to genital area and relieve pain.
Ginkgo Biloba (49 mg) - Improves oxygen flow to the brain and to other organs to strengthen heart, lungs, skin and genital organs.
Herba Epimedii (24.5 mg) - A well-known herb that has been used for centuries to treat impotence, reinforce seminal emission, strengthen tendons, bones and limbs, and relieve rheumatic conditions.
Herba Cistanches (24.5 mg) - One of the most popular and potent tonic herbs that enhances sexual function, treats impotence and strengthens the back and knees.
Astragalus Membranaceus (24.5 mg) - To reinforce "qi" and strengthen the superficial resistance; also helps to accelerate new tissue growth.
These ingredients may have changed slightly when the product changed from Libidus to Super-L.
Ptolemy
Can you post that website for us, i'd like to read more about that product and the prices....Sounds pretty interesting.....
kimo
QuoteFDA News
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
P06-97
July 12, 2006
Media Inquiries:
Kimberly Rawlings, 301-827-6242
Consumer Inquiries:
888-INFO-FDA
FDA Warns Consumers About Dangerous Ingredients in "Dietary Supplements" Promoted for Sexual Enhancement
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is warning consumers not to purchase or consume Zimaxx, Libidus, Neophase, Nasutra, Vigor-25, Actra-Rx, or 4EVERON. These products are promoted and sold on web sites as "dietary supplements" for treating erectile dysfunction (ED) and enhancing sexual performance, but they are in fact illegal drugs that contain potentially harmful undeclared ingredients. These products have not been approved by FDA, and there is no guarantee of their safety and effectiveness, or of the purity of their ingredients.
FDA advises consumers who have used any of these products to discontinue use and to consult their health care provider. FDA encourages anyone experiencing ED to seek guidance from a health care provider before purchasing a product to treat this medical condition.
"These products threaten the public health because they contain undeclared chemicals that are similar or identical to the active ingredients used in several FDA-approved prescription drug products. This risk is even more serious because consumers may not know that these ingredients can interact with medications and dangerously lower their blood pressure," said Dr. Steven Galson, Director of FDA's Center for Drug Evaluation and Research.
Chemical analysis by FDA revealed that Zimaxx contains sildenafil, which is the active pharmaceutical ingredient in Viagra, a prescription drug approved in the United States to treat ED. The other products contain chemical ingredients that are analogues of either sildenafil or a pharmaceutical ingredient called vardenafil. Vardenafil is the active ingredient in Levitra, a prescription drug that, like Viagra, is approved in the United States to treat ED. There is no mention of any of these ingredients in any of the illegal products' labeling.
This deception poses a threat to consumers because the undeclared ingredients may interact with nitrates found in some prescription drugs (such as nitroglycerin) and lower blood pressure to dangerous levels. Consumers with diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, or heart disease often take nitrates. ED is a common problem in men with these conditions, and they may seek products like the ones noted above because these products claim that they are "all natural" or that they do not contain the active ingredients used in FDA-approved ED drugs. In addition, because the manufacturing source of the active ingredients in these "dietary supplements" is unknown, there is no assurance that the ingredients are safe, effective, or pure.
FDA Warning Letters to the firms marketing these products state that the products are illegal drugs based on claims made for the products or their ingredients. The letters also state that the products' labeling is false and misleading because it fails to disclose the presence of the chemical ingredients or the potential side-effects associated with the products' consumption. FDA instructed agency staff to stop the importation of Libidus, and the agency recently stopped a shipment of 4 EVERON from entering the United States. Based on responses to these actions, FDA may take additional enforcement steps.
Today's actions follow a first-of-its-kind FDA survey, in which the agency analyzed 17 dietary supplements marketed on the internet to treat ED and to enhance sexual performance in men. "Our survey found that many of the so-called 'dietary supplements' marketed as treatments for erectile dysfunction actually contain non-dietary chemicals, including chemicals used as active ingredients in FDA-approved drugs. The claims made for these products were in fact claims made for the undeclared non-dietary chemicals they contain, which rendered them illegal drugs. FDA is committed to protecting the public health by removing such illegal and dangerous products from the market," said Margaret O'K. Glavin, FDA's Associate Commissioner for Regulatory Affairs.
####
SOURCE: http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2006/NEW01409.html
Thanks Liam, for the good info..Your right, these things should always be researched throughly...
kimo
Quote from: Nemo on November 04, 2007, 11:27:10 PMI've only been using viagra in my current relationship (about 2 months), but something weird happened. When I started using it a couple months ago, I would get semi-erect or fully erect just from making out prior to sex. Then one day, like a light turning off, I didn't get that pre-sex wood ... and I think I panicked, because I'd already been postulating "what if the viagra ever stops working?" I don't know if it was psychosomatic or what, but I started having performance anxiety. I think it's a mix of being only 36 and using viagra ... I have anxiety about a future where I'm dependant on a drug for good sex ... and what if the drug stops working. ... But I'm just wondering over your 10 years of viagra usage, has it been the same exact effect every time, or are there times when you find it to work better than others?
Nemo,
Viagra is prevented from absorption by any dietary fat eaten within 3 hours prior to taking the drug. Also, any adrenalin release from stress, anxiety, fright, fight, or flight syndrome will counteract vaso dilation. Adrenalin as well as antihistamines attach to adrenalin receptors and cause vaso constriction.
SO - Diet, anxiety, and some over the counter drugs can impact the effectiveness of a given dose of Viagra.
Thanks, Hawk. I think adrenaline was the culprit. I'd be so nervous I could feel my stomach muscles tighten up and there's no way that's good for an erection.
On a side note, I've been taking L-Arginine, 3 grams a day ... and the other night I took 1500mg about an hour prior to taking 50mg of Viagra, and WOW. I think the two worked in tandem because I was rock hard well before any clothes came off. I'm thinking the arginine will allow me to drop back down to my prefered dose of 25mg of viagra, because they arginine definitely seemed to supplement the V ... at least it sure did that night!
Thanks for all your counsel.
Nemo
I wasn't aware of the US FDA warning but I was aware of a similar warning from the Canadian equivalent. See below:
Natural Sex Enhancer Libidus' Potential Health Risks
25 Sep 2006
Health Canada is warning consumers not to use the natural health product Libidus because it contains an undeclared pharmaceutical ingredient, a modified form of vardenafil, which is similar to the active pharmaceutical ingredient found in the prescription drug Levitra. The use of Libidus could pose serious health risks, especially for patients with existing medical conditions such as heart problems, those taking heart medications, or those at risk for stroke.
Libidus is advertised as a natural sex enhancer for men and women and is not authorized for sale in Canada. The Canadian importer has been contacted and is recalling the product. Consumers who have purchased Libidus are warned not to use it and to consult with a health professional if they have used the product and have concerns about their health.
Products containing vardenafil should not be used by individuals who are taking any nitrate medication because combining these products could result in the development of potentially life-threatening low blood pressure.
The use of products containing vardenafil has also been associated with serious side-effects which include serious cardiac events such as heart attacks. In rare cases, the use of vardenafil may result in penile tissue damage and permanent loss of potency.
This product is manufactured in Malaysia by Bio-Gulf Sdn Bhd and imported into Canada for distribution by NorthRegentRX, of Winnipeg, Manitoba.
Health Canada also advises Canadians to contact the Health Products and Food Branch Inspectorate at 1-800-267-9675 if they find Libidus for sale in Canada. Health Canada has notified the Canada Border Services Agency to detain any shipment of Libidus detected at the border.
Consumers requiring more information about this advisory can contact Health Canada's public inquiries line at (613) 957-2991, or toll free at 1-866-225-0709.
To date, no adverse reactions suspected to be associated with the use of this product have been reported to Health Canada.
I suggest the use of any sexual enhancer to be used with caution, especially herbs, supplements and vitamins that haven't gone through the rigors of testing drugs have to go through. However, I'm a little sceptical of the pharmaceuticals that have their lobby groups to persuade the governing bodies. We all know all to well the track record the pharmaceuticals have for hiding facts.
I would draw your attention to the last statement of the Canadian warning which has me preferring Super-L over Viagra or Levitra or the others blessed by the FDA.
To date, no adverse reactions suspected to be associated with the use of this product have been reported to Health Canada.
Don't know if the FDA approved drugs can make the same claim. However it is best to use with caution. I typically use only 1/2 of the recommended dosage and then not often.
As I've been concerned about having virtually no, or weak, night time erections for the last few years, I had my urologist do a testosterone test. He says my numbers are normal except for the "inactive testosterone" which is low (didn't say how low). He didn't seem to care that I don't get nocturnals, but I do. I feel like I need them if there's ever any chance of reversing some of the Peyronie's damage (a little softness in the head when I have erections).
I use viagra for sex, which works, but as I've mentioned before, I'm 36 and I worry about long term use. So, I wanted to get to the bottom of why I don't get nocturnals anymore, hoping this might clear some things up.
Anyone know what "inactive testosterone" is and how it would or would not affect erections?
Thanks,
Nemo
Related to my previous post, I'm 36 and worried about long term viagra use insofar as losing efficacy. Would you please sound off if you're using viagra, along with your age, how long you've been using V, and if it's diminsihed in effectiveness at all?
I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Nemo
Nemo,
I am not the best case study for you question since I have ED partly because of surgery and partly because of Peyronies Disease.
A casual answer to your question can easily give misleading impressions. If I ask the question; "suppose you never took Viagra. Do you suppose your erections will gradually get weaker over the next 2 decades?" The answer would likely be yes. So, a person taking Viagra over a long period will also very likely say that their erections diminish over a long period. The same is more true of a person with Peyronies Disease. If they have progressive Peyronies Disease they may get progressively diminished erections as time goes on. In other words, however they rate a natural erection or their Viagra erection, both may well rate lower in years to come. The Viagra has nothing to do with that phenomenon. This has nothing to do with tolerance or resistance to the drug.
There is no evidence that men build up a dependence, a tolerance, or a resistance to ED drugs. In fact, there is some evidence that the benefit from erections, and the reduction of TGF-B1 from Viagra may slow this natural decline in erection.
As always, your counsel is much appreciated, Hawk. You make a good point. Thanks.
Nemo
Nemo
I've been using viagra now for arond 10 yrs and it works just as good now as when i first started using it...Matter of fact i have cut my dose down from 100mg to 50 and sometimes 25mg....Because of my age and the damage i recieved from a parasite i got 2 yrs ago...If i am feeling real good i will take a 100mg, but if i am not feeling good it will make my stomach and intestines hurt afterwards,,i don't know why, so i just cut back and avoid the pain...I won't stop taking the viagra because the benefits out weigh the pain....I have just learned when is the best time to take it....
Another thing i have been noticing, i'm kinda needing the viagra less and less, have been able to get a normal erection more often lately which is kinda nice too....After taking it now for over 10 yrs i really don't notice any side effects much anymore......
This is just my observation's,,,,,,,,,,,,kimo
Is anyone on this board still taking trazadone and if so, is it still helping with NTEs? My uro won't prescribe me it b/c of priapism risk (though with a venous leak, I would be happy to see it stand on end for longer than a few minutes anyway). Have any of you had any problems with this? Thanks in advance.
My Uro wouldn't prescribe it to me. Said because I use viagra, he was worried about priapism. Also said, "We don't really know what causes NTEs, and I don't think you should worry about not getting them," which I thought was a little dismissive for a Uro ... seems obvious that NTEs would help maintain and in our case restore penile tissue health. But anyway, he said, "some docs are prescibing this, but I don't."
Has your doctor ever known of anyone to have priapism with 400mg of trazadone a day?
The answer is no, so why would he worry about a person with some erectile issues getting priapism from 25 mg?
I agree that I would not take trazadone and Viagra within 12 hours of each other, but you have control over that.
I took trazadone for awhile , 25 mg,,,and i didn't get many NTE's let alone a good 4 hour hard....The main thing it did for me was make me sleep well, but i did wake up every morning in a fog..The fog would last about 15 min to half hour which i didn't care for and thats why i stoped taking it..
Trazadone was very inexpensive.......
kimo
Hawk, Kimo, thanks for your information about the use of viagra.
Hawk, I think you've just got a great reasoning. Your point over the "natural" decline with or without Viagra and the potential beneficial effects of the use of Viagra are really reassuring me, if one day I have to take some. As I said, I'll start with natural supplements if they work.
Nemo, I think your fear of losing erections is really participating in losing your erections.
Take some viagra or cialis or any natural supplement that can help you, start with small doses, and I'm sure you'll never be dependant if you make a normal use of these drugs.
Now with my basic imagery :D : Just consider them as a "stick" to help you walk. When you'll see you can walk without the stick, you can get rid of it, like Kimo did. You can have resort to the stick again, but it's temporary.
I know, I should write novels :D
BTW, concerning your Uro, I think that NTEs are important, otherwise they would not be natural for the average man. I think it's a normal stuff, and they are necessary.
I was just reading about a drug called Uprima that appears to have been discontinued. It was supposed to be a rival to Viagra, and worked in a different way - by enhancing signals from the brain to the penis, not like Viagra, which works on the tissue level. Uprima was also a sublingual (under the tongue) drug that apparently worked in about 15 minutes.
Did anyone here ever try Uprima?
Nemo
Nemo:
Uprima was supposed to be "the thing" in ED drugs. It failed miserably on the market, so it was pulled and I suppose now is totally unavailable.
It would not be wise to try any so called generic forms of it. It was a quick acting drug that when placed under the tongue entered the body rapidly to do its work. In our prostate cancer survivor support group, several men tried it without much success.
Old Man
Uprima
On the advice of my former Uro about 4 years ago while on a trip to Cancun Mexico I tried it. Did not work well. I understand that it was taken off the market in Europe.
Jackp
OK guys, I just had my Uro send me the copy of my testosterone report. I wanted it because I don't get nocturnal erections for about the last 4-5 years, and if I do they're weak. On the phone the doc told me "your free testosterone is fine ... don't worry about nocturnal erections." I was less than pleased with that answer so I ordered the copy myself to see the details.
I'm 36 years old. My Total Testosterone was 235 (which he even wrote on the report was slightly low). % Free is 1.71 ... Testosterone, Free 40.2pg/mL ... Prolactin 6.1ng/mL ...
Does anyone know enough about this to tell me if I'm correct in thinking my low total testosterone is probably the cause of the lack of night time and spontaneous erections? What kind of doctor could I go to to follow up on this?
Thanks,
Nemo
Nemo,
I don't chime in very often but your's caught my eye.
A 36 year old man should have a T level well above 235.
Try seeking a second opinion from an Endo. One who specializes in hypogonadism.
Be well, Swim
Nemo,,
I just had the same tests done last week..On the total testosterone i can tell you that 200 is considered zero...Mine is at 314, i'm supprised it's that high.....My free testosterone wqas 9.5 pg/ml , this one i don't know that much about. i'm not that read up on......
I do know that low testosterone is a reason for no nightime erections and low or no libido......I had a URO a few years ago that told me those numbers were just normal for my age and he didn't offer to do anything about it so i changed doctors and my new uro at the time said he could fix it and did....i used the androgel first and it drove my testosterone level back up to 831 and i just about lost my mind,,,ha.....Then he changed me over to the adroderm patch and it worked a lot better for me,,it kept me at about 700 the rest of the time......
Hope this helps,,,,,,,kimo
Nemo
Had my T checked 10/24 and received the report from my PCP 11/8.
Let me say that for years my T has been low and now PCP has raised my shots.
Quest Diagnostic says on the report
"aging men with clinically significant Hypondogal symptoms and testosterone values in the rarange of 200-300 ng/dL or less, may benefit from testosterone treatment after adequate risk and benefits counseling."
Three weeks b4 this test I had a T shot of 400mg T. My test results were;
Testosterone, Free and Weakly Bound
Testosterone, Total 120L out of rarangee Low Range 241-827 ng/Dal
Testosterone, Free and Weakly Bound Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 32 normal range 17-54 Mil/L
Testosterone Free 24L out of range low, Range 34-194/ pg/ml
Testosterone Free and weakly bound 49L out of rarangee low. Range 84-402 ng/Dal.
Estrada E2 24 normal. Range 13-54pg/ml.
Shots increased to 600 mg every three weeks.
My PCP wants to get my T levels stable at around 750. The first week or so after the shot I feel great. Horney but still the Peyronies plaque in my copra prevents erection firm enough for penetration.
My uro's in the past have only tested total T. My PCP took over my T shots when I was unhappy with the uro, He wants to work with me in ways the Uros never did. Uros would only give me 300 mg shots every three weeks. I know my levels have dropped over the years.
All this to say that Testesterone treatment will not help with erections when you have plaque (scar tissue) in the copra from Peyronies and PGE1 or Trimix injections.
After the failed attempt at the Implant Surgery last month the uro said that no wonder you have such trouble with erections with all that scar tissue.
Will discuss all this with my next uro in December. (Second Opinion on implant)
Sorry this is long.
Jackp
Guys, I'm really glad I asked. Thanks. I think I'm going to take that test result to a new urologist for a second opinion. I think I may have discovered the missing link I was looking for. I can't believe a Uro would tell a Peyronie's patient "don't worry about not having NTEs" ... that just sounds like poor advice. It seems intuitive that blood flow at night is good for the tissue/healing/etc.
Thanks,
Nemo
Jack,
The low testosterone is known to promote fibrosis in the penile tunica. It may BE the reason you slipped backwards.
It is also possible, but not proven experimentally, that testosterone treatment will help reverse that change.
In rabbits, those who had their gonads cut off developed fibrosis over time (and not a very long time - but I do not know how a rabbit week compares to my week!). Those who had testosterone treatment did not get the fibrotic changes. This strongly suggests that it was the lack of testosterone in the castrated rabbits that led to the fibrosis (as opposed to something else in the gonad).
However I am uncertain if T therapy alone will restore a fibrotic penis. It may be that a combination of aggressive T therapy, combined with Pentox, Viagra and Arginine is required to recover.
Tim
Hello to everybody, I just registered. I think this looks like a really great site, I will try to find some more time to look around it and at a time when i can be discrete for a while. I post here b/c apparently you cannot post new subject threads. Please let me know if there is a more appropriate thread I should move this to (or a way to start my own subj).
I am 21 years old, a year ago my erections were rock solid with a libido that encouraged them. But by March of this year I was sure that something was not the same. When erect, my penis appears straight, and then halfway through it bends to the left. When flaccid, I can easily twist my penis to the left, but not to the right. I never heard any loud breaks or had any painful experiences, my penis simply started to curve to the left, and the quality of my erections suffered. One possibility I thought was that I had been on Propecia for two years. Shortly before my symptoms I had stopped taking the drug for a few weeks to "shock my system". Most docs claim Propecia is unrelated and cannot cause longterm sexual side effects, but many people online will swear different. The quality of my erections got worse until I finally discontinued the drug permanently in June. Not much improvement since then (if any). To be honest, I was a 21 year old virgin when I saw a Urologist about this in July. I was told I didn't need to bring pictures of an erection (although he did ask if i had any when i was there). Upon seeing my flaccid penis, my doctor could notice a curve, but he said he did not believe it was Peyronies, but rather something I'd had my whole life most likely. I think if anyone in this world is familiar with his penis, it is a 21 year old American virgin, and although I understand he's a professional, there is absolutely no way that my penis has been bent my entire life, and I just haven't noticed it, or that this problem is all psychological. The doc said there was a surgery was an option, and offered viagra. The thing is, I'm still dependent on my family, I'm not about to tell my parents I can't get hard and I need surgery and Viagra. They'd just think I was crazy anyway. (and of course surgery is not something i want to do quickly, and telling the pharmacist i need viagra can't be fun either) The doc told me not to bother him again until i'd gotten laid (although he phrased it more kindly). My libido has fallen some, but not as much as my erections, and I still do masturbate and feel frustrated after several days without, but i do not usually get even halfway decent erections (it's never what i would consider full and hard). Of course I was depressed about this, but as a virgin it didn't seem to be any worse than my life before that happened.
But then I dated this girl for a month and a half. She is really great (although we are now geographically separated----for at least several months), and despite the fact that i felt great and comfortable and honestly not really THAT much anxiety about my hardness (since after all, any problems were futile to freak out over), or at least as much as one could be no anxiety. But definitely i felt very comfortable and good with her, and I can't imagine that anything could be psychological. I was able to get a decent enough erection to have sex, although I did have difficulty staying hard esp w/ a condom. With a condom on I could barely feel anything. I know it's not good to have unprotected sex, but at this point the risk in a committed relationship seems irrelevant given the state of my member. She said it was still good sex (w/ condom), but she also said my penis was much bigger w/out a condom, so i know she was saying that partly (probably mostly) for my benefit. Whatever the case, sex, while pleasurable, could not be orgasmic from anything other than very fast movement, usually manual, and orgasms were difficult to come by. This is not normal for a male 21 yo virgin, especially one that rarely masturbates anymore. The first time you have sex you're supposed to be embarrassed that you can't last 1 minute, not that you cannot come.
Of course I want to see another Urologist, but I'm not in the country, i'd have to wait until after new years (and i will do that of course). But I just wanted to hear if anyone had any thoughts on my condition or some advice. Sorry for the long length of this message, but if anyone has questions please ask.
I really don't think about this very much honestly, I've spent years worrying about premature hair loss, I don't have the energy to spend all my time worrying about this.
BUT
recently I saw an article in WebMD/CBS referencing a patient who used FastSize traction device to increase his penis size, and how happy he says he is now, and more confident. FastSize also claims to be able to fix Peyronie's and I am considering purchasing this product. I've missed out on so much of my sexual prime already for various reasons, and I refuse to live my life missing out on more and being unable to have fulfilling sexual relationships.
Please let me know if the traction thing sounds like a good idea for me....I cannot wait two months for this (or even longer, when school starts, b/c there's no way i'm having a penis traction device mailed to my parents house where i'll be over the break).
*one more thing, i'm in decent shape, i look fairly fit, i'm definitely not fat or anything. if everyone in worse shape than I is having this problem, then a huge percentage of people are having trouble with this, so that can't be the problem.
Jack, I was on Propecia for over a year in my late twenties and it DEFINITELY caused me erection problems. I couldn't get a good hard even masturbating. I quit the drug and in a couple weeks, would get back to normal. I did this twice and it was the same, which to me said, "It's the Propecia." I went to a Uro (because I wanted to stay on Propecia) and he said, "Well, I can give you Viagra but the fact is you're messing with testosterone, and I don't know if you want to continue doing that, given that you can see it's negatively affecting you." I had to make the hard decision to finally quit Propecia. It was a hard decision, but it was the right one.
Subsequently, about three years later, I got a case of Peyronie's, and now discover that my testosterone is low (this is now about 6 years later.) I think you should have your doctor (or any doctor) do a blood test to check your testosterone levels. You may indeed have a mild case of Peyronie's but you may also have low testosterone which is impairing your erections. You need to know for sure if only to rule that out.
I would NOT mess with traction devices - you're likely to only hurt yourself. Stick with legitimate medical quality stuff like vacuum erection devices if you feel you need to do some stretching - but consult your doctor first.
Good luck brother,
Nemo
JIB,
Welcome to the forum and thanks for contributing a well written post.
I only have one comment at this point. If you have the time and commitment, then I think you may want to try a quality traction device. Traction is a significant commitment however.
I have to take issue with the suggestion that traction is less "medical quality device" than a VED. In fact, even though the study is extremely small and only a pilot study, one could argue that the traction device is the only one of the two devices with medically documented results. There is no indication it can or has caused any more injury than a VED. Further discussion on this topic should be posted on the Traction" or the "VED" topics.
Here is a helpful link for greater understanding of you lab results. This particular link is for testosterone but that is only one of a hundred such tests that can be searched on this site. Note the tabs that cover various aspects of the test, what is being tested, and what the results could indicate.
http://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/testosterone/glance.html
PS: Also, most lab reports show a normal range and bold any numbers that you have that are outside of that range
Welcome Jack
I would ask your parents if it is possible to sit down to talk to them about something that is personal, difficult to talk about, and embarrassing. Then tell them the truth and what you are experiencing. I bet that the support will be tremendous and helpful. It will also let you figure out more adequately your options (ie medical Rx, surgical etc.). You do NOT want to scrunch up the nerve to talk just after you come off his health care plan!!!
I bet they will be so glad that you are not telling them that you're gay, they will feel relieved!
Anyway, you are right on - the advice was sort of silly. Attempts to reassure someone have to be based on reality - you cannot be made to feel better by being told that you don't really have a problem!
More than that, the finasteride (Propecia) connection is real for many men. It blocks some of the testosterone pathways and can lead to acquired hypogonadism. A effect of that an be fibrosis of the tunica in the penis. So determine if you may be able to get treated with testosterone if needed. YOu may need to go to an endocrinologist who specializes in fertility and this realm to get properly treated.
Second, go on something to reduce the inflammation. Start with vitamin E and branch out from there. There is lots to learn here so get busy reading - it is your penis that you need to protect from worsening.
Tim
I hope my question / comment is not one that the reply is that we went over that a long time ago. Well it seems that now that some time has passed, I seem to get night time erections but as I awake it disappears. During the day it just won't happen. Note that I am not using Viagra or something else.
Musicman
Guys, I'm scheduling a visit to the Mayo Clinic in Arizona to get a full exam. I want to know if my 235 testosterone (at age 36) needs to be addressed, if I have any thyroid issues, why I'm not getting night time erections, and whether I have a venous leak (I sure hope not). I'll let you know how it goes.
In the meantime, my concern is the weird results I get with Viagra. I've been using it for about 3 months. In the beginning, I'd be semi-or-near hard just from kissing, hugging, etc. Now, sometimes I am, but sometimes I need direct stimulation for a couple minutes. The first time this happened, it really spooked me, and now I know I have some perfomance anxiety wondering "is it going to work right this time?"
Once I'm hard, I KNOW the Viagra is working, as the erection is super hard, durable, stays firm for a while after ejaculating, and is ready for round two fairly soon. But the fluxuation in pre-usage activity makes me skittish.
I e-mailed one of those online doctor forums and asked if my low testosterone could be the cause, some days being high, somedays low, thus affecting the Viagra. He said, "Typically you shouldn't see any fluxuation in Viagra" ... but I'd like your real world experience in this regard. I'm a natural worrier, and not thinking of the V as my silver bullet makes me nervous.
Thanks,
Nemo
Hello Nemo and all:
For Nemo : Don't know precisely your case, mine is different , but one thing i saw on me: at begginning i was taking a 10mg of cialis and it was 'about' working good, even if i had lost penis size, sensitivity, etc, and after some months, it's the same as you, i need, even with 10 or 20mg of cialis, some minutes of manual stimulation for me having an erection -and as for me, a 'crap' one (but just enough to have sex, even if it's not good at all).
So i don't know if it makes less and less effect when you take it too often, especially when we are young. (and as for me even once i'm hard, it doesn't work so much coz erection doesn't stay long time and is not so hard now). No idea, but i just saw it on me.
-All : I saw another doctor who is suposed to be 'specialist', who says he cannot feel any plaque of fibrosis. And as i had told you, even MRI shows a twisting at basis of penis (but this twisting/torsion is visible even with own eyes, no need of exam for that), but doesn't show any sign fibrosis. Despite of that, i have, as you know, total impotence, with cialis which works less and less, twisting, torsion, curvature, big loss of penile size, tunica albuginea which has become very hard, few elasticity when i stretch on penis,no sensation, even ejaculatory trouble, sometimes pain, all that after a shock during intercourse at begginning of 2007 and with no problem at all before. Moreover, i really feel now 'no blood circulation" in penis, as if its totally dead, cold, etc..
I take vit E and pentox for the moment with no result.
I don't know what to do when specialist keeps you only 5 minutes and just says 'there is no plaque, so it's ok, bye'...
Other doctor told it was symptoms of penile fibrosis.
Do you know if there can be fibrosis , but not under the form of big plaque, but small fibrosis, not visible at exams like MRI ?
I'm desesperate now, i've spent too much money in lots of doctors, i know no one will help me, and i cant imagine to put a penile prostesis so young, knowing its definitive surgery. Any advice or idea? Thanks
Testosterone problems may make for some of the problems described (ie diffuse fibrosis). Also other problems with testosterone function (adrogen binding receptor, etc) may also lead to functional low testosterone even with "high enough" levels of free or total T levels.
Tim
Hi Tim,
What would you recommend be done in this case. How could one go about finding the testestrone level ? Could one take something non-prescription to try to see if it helps ?
Any information would be much appreciated
Thanks,
Pal
Thanks Tim,
but how a testosterone problem would happen precisely after a shock, at the moment when it happened, i had a great libido, so i dont think the day before i had high testosterone level, and the day after, bad level that creates such symptomes. I was not in stress period or whatever, and i'm 26.
Anyway i did a blood analyses (i dont know if its precise one, good one, i just went to laboratory to make it coz doc had asked it) and my level is normal (i dont know to what it corresponds exactly, but the doc says its a normal level).
Do you know how to check what you tell me about? Is it by blood analyse?
So sadly i don't believe in that, i think about micro and diffuse fibrosis, not only a big localised plaque, but if the specialist says nothing and can't, or doesn't make the effort, to help, i don't see how i can do more (exepting taking pentox and vit e)...
Antony,
Your points are good ones: how could something change that fast? I don't think that this may apply to you, as it was so rapid. I think lower than average testosterone levels (or function) may be related to Peyronie's (or Peyronies-like) fibrosis in older men. It may also be a problem in younger men getting finasteride (Propecia) for hair loss.
Testosterone levels go down gradually as you age. Sometimes they drop too fast or too soon - mine did. I very much wonder if some of the "increase" in Peyronie's is related to older men now believing that they have a right to an erection. The use of Viagra has really changed things for men IMHO. Older men may have previously suffered in silence - now they are speaking up. So, the connection between Peyronie's Disease and aging (already known) and Testosterone levels will perhaps be understood better.
Instead, Antony, your problem came on so fast, it sounds more like the overwhelming fibrosis that develops after getting priapism. In that condition, there is damage done to the penile structures that leads to progressive fibrosis. That is the problem that was treated effectively with Viagra, Pentox and Arginine by Tom Lue in a case report of two men.
In that case, there was a discreet wound that happened, followed by a wound healing process gone awry. In your case, there seems to be an on-going wound process that has not "happened", but is "happening". That may imply that there is more to come, and that therapy geared towards helping recover will be ineffective until the process has moved into the resolution phase.
It is very frustrating that the cause of your problem remains unknown, for you cannot know when it is over, or if there is anything to do to stop that process from getting worse. Obviously, if it goes very far, it will be harder to recover from no matter what you do. That is really scary for you I bet, and my heart goes out to you.
If it is helpful to recall this, remember that A) it should stop getting worse soon enough, B) anti-fibrotic therapy may help you recover, C) surgery may provide you with a way to have a satisfying and happy lovelife and sex life, D) progress in reconstructive surgery, including fashioning of new penile tissue to replace damaged tissue is on the way. It may not be this year, but during your lifem and during your active sex life, such progress will happen such that YOU can benefit from it. So, never say 'die' - there is always hope.
To Pal-31
MY best advice is to get a level measured and to discuss it with your doctor.
Tim
Tim,
thanks for answer, i bet you -sadly for me- said about all what i exactly think, and pointed why it's so hard and scary...
The fact that the cause is not PRECISELY found is horrible, but there is no doubt, acording at least to 2 different doctors, that it's due to micro fibrosis. Anyway, there are not 1000 causes of organical impotence, especially in that way and with other symptoms like mines.
But hearing from other 'famous specialists' that 'there is nothing",or 'it's in your head' when you have such symptoms make me both agressive and desesperate. I know that exactly the same answers were told by f**** arogant 'specialists' to other persons with about same symptomes, both in france or in the usa.
At the moment i take pentox, vit E, and sometimes cialis, that makes few effect now. I could try the combination with l-arginine and viagra too as you say, why not? Yes, my condition sounds exactly like a person who would had got priapism. It's exactly that: the penile structures have changed, and i can feel it (but how the specialist dared telling 'its normal'?). The mystery stays how a wrong move of the girl during intercourse, with a pain but not external and visible trauma or haematoma, could have lead to such bad ED and change of inside structures, when some people with big plaque of Peyronie can still erect (with curvature, but the erectile processus is not damaged) ; and me with no visible plaque it's totally dead.
Did the 2 men treated by Tom Lue (american doctor?) you speak to me were healed? do you know if they recovered 'normal' penis (size, and erection)? Anyway, i don't know if taking viagra during a long time and every day at my age is good...Coz i read that after priapism, ED was DEFINITIVE and appart from penile prostesis (that i don't want to hear about), there was nothing to do (and sure it's scary).
Concerning the discreet wound, and healing process that gone awry , that's exactly what i feel (and what hapened i bet, i just don't understand why we speak about the possibilities on a forum, and that the doctors specialised don't discuss, don't tell 'inteligent' opinions or advices, even don't listen to you, when you pay them for helping you...). I don't know if the healing process that went in bad way is finished or 'on going' as you say, it's about 9 months that it hapened, i would say it is finished now, more than 'on going' (but i don't know really in fact). But when i see what i have now, i don't see how i could have more to come...
For your A), yes, maybe it has stopped yet , or maybe soon B) it's my biggest hope, that pentox, vit E, and so maybe l arginine and viagra or cialis could help me, if you know other things that you have heard in the usa, i take everything you know. But when i see the form of my penis and what i feel inside, and the crap erection even with big dose of cialis, i have some big doubts C) If surgery is put penile prostesis, i cannot , physicaly and psychologically; that implies that i will NEVER have a natural erection again for the REST OF LIFE, coz it's a surgery that destroys the 'safe tissues' you still have.... And its a definitive one. I don't take this option as for me. D) I would give a good chance on this one, hope it won't be available in 10years but before... Do you know where i could write to be informed?? coz in france they don't speak about that, i just found informations about antony atalla, and a guy from forum told me about gene therapy, but i'd like to expose my case and directly ask some information (why not participate to a 'testing protocole' if possible).
Anyway, thanks for answers, i learn more here, or with my generalist doctor (who takes time to listen and try to think) than with F^@$!ng specialists at 150 euros to pay for 5 minutes of useless consultation.
Antony
antony
When the Peronies attacks the corpora and scar tissue starts you start to loose size. Have you lost any size (shrinkage)? If so the only way to stop it is with an implant.
The research I've seen on gene therapy is at least 10 years away if then. Can you wait that long? I can not I'm 65 and need the best available now with almost 100% impotent.
Scary? YES, but what is the alternative at this point?
Jackp
To jack:
Yes i have lost lots of size (3 centimeters , i dont know to what it correspond in us, but it's a big loss).
The thing is, i don't have a typical peyronie, and i don't have a located and precise plaque. But penile anatomy changed, and i'm 100% impotent now.
You say 'the only way to stop it is an implant', but now it's too late to stop, i mean by that, that i can't lose anymore i think, it's already done, and it is now stable. But it's impressive how penis (i had a really good size before that problem) shrunk...
I totaly understand in your case that you would take the implant as a serious option. You're 65 , and you can't wait 10years. As for me, i'm 26 and i can't put so young a definitive surgery like a prostesis. If it's to never have again the feeling to be 'normal', during the 60years i have still to live, i prefer giving up now. It means never have a natural erection, natural feeling again.
I supose you have a wife, with a 'common past', that you will speak with her, and she will support you. I would probably consider it seriously in your situation, but mine is diferent. And i think in the same way i understand you take it as an option, you can understand that it can't be one for me. But i admit i dont see alternative.
Maybe re- engenering tissues will be in 10years (and my answer is : no, i cant wait 10years, i see that after 9 months, i am out of force, i've lost my life, so in 10years in this condition, i won't be there anymore), but i was told gene therapy would be available not so far, is that right? Tests have already been done on several men.
Antony
Antony, don't be so drastic in your rejection of an implant. Eveything I've read says they are very natural looking, and allow you to enjoy sex and ejaculate just like normal. Imagine how many women have breast implants. It's not all that different if you think about it. Frankly, having a penis that responds on demand and stays up as long as you want it has it's merits.
Of course, you're right, it's a last resort as it's not reversible, but dang, it's a pretty great last resort as it addresses Peyronie's, ED, and everything.
I'm just saying, look into it before you totally rule it out. We're lucky to be living in a time when we have this option.
Good luck brother,
Nemo
Hey Guys:
My advice to all of you who haves posted on this thread in the past few days is this: Look very hard at all options before you leap into something that you can't reverse later. I am 78 plus years old, have had Peyronies Disease and/or ED since the age of 24. I know first hand from my experiences that panic can set in early in life since my Peyronies Disease struck at an early age too. For a good portion of the past 50 plus years, I have experienced Peyronies Disease that came and went several times. Now, after a radical prostatectomy in 1995, I find myself totally impotent for a natural erection.
My erection problem has been taken care of by means of the VED. The VED can and will give you one the best erection you ever had by using it in moderation and careful pumping, etc. It does take getting used to "pumping up" before sex each time, but if you include your partner/wife in the process, it can be fun just like ordinary foreplay. It does not preclude any other means of ED correction, but can add to the use of the ED pills and other ideas.
I know several guys who have had an implant done and they are enjoying it very much. However, they exhausted all other means before having the surgery. All of them are older and at least one is in his 80s still having great sex with his implant. So, it is an option to consider if one has not other alternative.
So, I guess what I am saying is, don't give up trying any and all means of therapy/treatment so soon before jumping into an implant. Look at the positive side of it and try one thing at a time until you find something that helps. My background in this mess has given me insight as to what devastation it can produce in one so young in life. Keep the faith and keep looking for answers.
Regards to all, Old Man
An implant is not for anyone who does not want it. If he feels strongly about it now, he may change his mind if he goes for ten years without an erection. It takes time to accept what is. I would of course (as would anyone) worry that I was crossing a bridge I could never come back across the other way. That means if Dr Atala develops a laboratory-grown penis that works perfectly well within 15 years, someone with an implant might not be able to get it done.
For now, I would work on getting arginine (as Vasoflow), pentox and viagra on a daily basis.
Also, I miswrote: it was Rajfer and Gonzalez-Cadavid who wrote the case report. Here is the anstract:
authors Rajfer J., Gore JL., Kaufman J., Gonzalez-Cadavid N.
Department of Urology, David Geffen School of Medicine, University of California, Los Angeles, Los Angeles, CA 90095-1738, USA.
Case report: Avoidance of palpable corporal fibrosis due to priapism with upregulators of nitric oxide.
Journal of Sexual Medicine. 3(1):173-6, 2006 Jan.
INTRODUCTION: Recent evidence suggests that blocking inducible nitric oxide (NO) synthase in the penis may exacerbate fibrotic processes and that application of medications known to increase NO in tissues may prevent fibrosis.
AIM: To report the use of an antifibrotic regimen consisting of medications known to upregulate NO production in two patients with refractory priapism.
METHODS: Two patients presented with priapism of greater than 48-hour duration. After corporal aspiration/irrigation and shunting procedures failed, both were prescribed a daily antifibrotic regimen comprising the phosphodiesterase inhibitors pentoxifylline and sildenafil, and the NO precursor, L-arginine.
RESULTS: At 1 year, both patients were found to have supple corpora without evidence of corporal fibrosis.
CONCLUSIONS: An antifibrotic regimen consisting of upregulators of NO production may ameliorate the corporal fibrosis associated with recalcitrant priapism.
Tim
antony
3cm = 1.18 inches.
That is approximately what I have lost. Been married 39 years to a wonderful lady and she supports me. One night just before I became 100% impotent she asked, Jack have you lost some size? I told her yes and she never has asked again.
When I made the decision for the implant she said "Jack you do not have to do this for me, I did not marry you for your penis." I assured her that the decision for the implant was for us not just me. Have an appointment December 13 for a second opinion on implant and she wants to go with me. See my story of failed surgery under the surgery category.
Believe me I have tried all the other options before implant. At 65 I can not wait for 10+ years for the FDA to approve something else for ED.
Jackp
antony
Something else I wanted to say.
I have had Peronies and ED for almost 15 years. I understand you not wanting to jump into an implant. It took me 14 years to make that decision. I do not want you to feel that I was putting pressure on you, just telling my story.
I only started to consider an implant 3 years ago I was lying on the exam table in the Uro's office waiting for a Doppler, Dr came in and put in an injection of PGE1 and said for me to work on my penis like buskit dough for a few minutes. He came back in and proceeded with the Doppler. While lying there for 20 minutes trying to get the PGE1 to work was the first time I considered an implant. (PGE1 did not work).
Good Luck on your journey. Gods Speed, I wish you well.
JackP
Jack :
I understand you take this decision now. But as i mention, and Tim mentions, in my case: if i do that now at 26, and imagine in some times there are good results with gene therapy (waiting from Attala re-engeniring tissues), what will i do with my implant??? It will be definitive. As you mention it, despite you were married long time (it counts a lot to have your wife understanding , and speaking with her, as for me i'm not married, i was just going from a girl to another, and my gf is not my wife or future wife), it took you 14 years to accept this idea.... So put yourself at my place (you can understand coz you suffered from that), until january 07 , i had a perfect sexual life, perfect penis, etc, suddenly an intercourse with bad move of the girl, and some times later all my symptoms, lots of wrong diagnoses, and now 9 months later, thinking about a definitive surgery like a penile prostesis (that is something very hard to accept mentally), you can understand why i can't take it (in my case) as a solution.
In the same way i understand that your wife -you are married to since 39years- can understand and accept that you have to press on testicles to induce an artificial erection (if you take a balloon implant, coz i took informations about it), and, as she told you, she has not married with you for your penis (but imagine if your problem had hapened after few time you were with her.... Hopefully you were already married for long years when it hapened) ; in the same way you can understand, it's hell in my situation : having such a problem with my wife after long years could be acceptable, but having it before meeting my future wife , and start new relation with such an handicap, i can't. One again, there is the notion of DEFINITIVE in that surgery. Something definitive at 80 and at 20 doesn't take the same signification.
In that way, i understand what Olde Man says and meens, to wait more time as possible, and try all possibilities before that. Even if in the same way, i will not meet a new girl and arrive with my VED to induce erection. (can be worth to try it for 'penile reeducation, as a daily training, but not for an intercourse)
And testing combinations like Tim reports, viagra, l arginine, pentox, etc, is worth to try.
Jack, can i ask you how you have maintained your sexual llife during these years? Cialis, viagra , etc? And did you get an MRI that showed the plaque of fibrosis, or any exam? And what was the result of your doppler?
To finish (and for Nemo too, concerning your post about implant), i would add something: you know that in france, anyway, even if i would ask by myself to put an implant (what i would not do); they would refuse coz i'm too young. I spoke to a guy who has the same problem as me (same age),he was becoming mad, finaly accepted with great difficulties the idea of an implant to stop taking viagra, injections, etc, and the 2 surgeons he saw REFUSED to take the responsability coz he was young, and if in some years there are other solutions, it will be definitive surgery and after the guy could regret. But as he told me, will he still be on earth in several years? Coz it's devasting, he had to go to psychatrich hospital coz he was becoming mad, and i dont want to do the same.
So, Nemo, see that it's normal for me to be so mistrustful towards implant, when EVEN the specialists don't accept to put it for the same reasons i mentionned. It means: next 60years of life without any natural erection. Also, there are 15% of failure during surgery, we must not forget it. But the question is : what solutions?
The last thing is that they don't accept too when you still have a reaction to PGE1 injection.
Tim : do you know if viagra+ l arginine + pentox on daily basis is safe for health?
For your example of 2 guys (sorry sometimes i don't precisely understand in english): is that meaning that they had priapism (not treated), which created fibrosis (consequences of not treated priapism), so they became impotent etc, tried lots of things with no results, and that combination viagra-l arginine-pentox healed the fibrosis?
Or does it mean that they often made priapism or had too long time erections and that this treatment permitted them to have no more priapism (sorry for my misunderstanding).
Do lots of you passed MRI that make the plaque in evidence of images?? Coz my MRI doesn't show the fibrosis according to the doctor, we can see twisting/torsion of penis at basis but not any plaque or nodule .
I wish good luck to all
Antony
Your first impression of the article was correct. The men HAD priapism, and it was treated in a classic way, but did not respond (in priapism it is vital to get rid of the erection, and they were unable to get rid of it for those men for over 48 hours). The CONSEQUENCE of failure to get rid of the erection in priapism quickly is that most men will go on to develop complete fibrosis of the penis structures (including erectile tissue).
For that reason, they put the men on the three drug protocol for over a year, and they did not develop fibrosis - although it is my memory that they had started to do so, and it was reversed by the therapy.
In rats and rabbits, this combination has been shown to REVERSE fibrosis in those animal models of Peyronie's disease.
Therefore many of us are pushing for this treatment when all else has failed us. I am not on it myself, for I am doing OK on what I am doing (Horny Goat Weed, Cialis alternating along with supplements).
Finally, for a while I was also mixing up your story, Antony, with that of another poster named "tunica" who claims he has lost three inches in a week. It doesn't change what I said though.
Tim
Hey Antony,
I completely 100% feel your frustration, depression, and disgust at this situation. I myself, and in a similar predicament, and have severe E.D., shrinkage, and 90% loss of sensitivity. I am sure we do not have Peyronie's disease, but some other variation of trauma induced penile fibrosis. I have been researching penile sensitivity and libido, and how found some interesting bits of information.
"The presence of genital sensation was positively correlated with the ability to feel a build up of sexual tension in the body during sexual stimulation and in the feeling that mental arousal translates to the genitals as physical sensation."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17016492&ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
In this case, the loss of genital sensitivity came from a spinal cord injury. In my case, and in Atony's case, it came from some type of trauma that severely damaged the penile nerves. In this state, its not that we are depressed, or anxious, and thats why our libidos are low. Literally, our penis's can't send information to our brains, to become arroused in the first place. Its a nightmare. Now only does genital sensitivity control arrousal and pleasure at orgasm, it controls erectile functionality. I literally feel like a broken person now. Its hard to describe; it feels like trying to describe brain damage in a way. I know I "want" to feel horny and I should feel horny, but my damaged body isn't allowing it to happen. I know looking at the nude female form is erotic, but I get no physical response from it.
I know every man has to face these problems alone. When I first faced this E.D., and shrinkage, I thought it was the end of the world. At this point, I would be satisfied having E.D. and shrinkage as long as I could feel sexual pleasure and normal sensitivity in my genitals. What it has taught me, is it can always be better and worse. I am now looking into somehow regenerating my peripheral penile nerves enough to transmit enough stimulation to casscade an orgasm. The supplements i'm looking into our ALC, PLC, ALA, and continuing the pentoxifylline. I hope within some time in the future we will all have a complete recovery from this hell.
TO TIM :
ok thanks for precision. I just don't understand one thing: so these men had priapism not treated in 48 hours, and the known consequences are fibrosis and impotence (like Pains is Growth had). But if i understand, in your case, these men did not develop the symptoms, coz they were put under the 3 drugs, not in order to HEAL a fibrosis, but in order NOT TO DEVELOP a fibrosis, is that it Tim?
So sadly, it's not my case (or Pain is Growth one). Coz in our cases, the hell is already done, so now we have to reverse the fibrosis (and probably micro fibrosis but at lots of areas of penis, not only a big plaque at ONE area). Is that it? The thing was interesting in your memory, that these guys had reversed fibrosis, but if it was 'only' to prevent from fibrosis, it's different. Coz another point is we are young, and taking long time cialis, viagra, pentox, vit E, l arginine, anti depressors, anxiolotics, herbs, etc, etc, for NOTHING is not worth to try, it's not good for body. After, if there is a hope to heal, then it's worth to try i agree. So, don't know. But to be honest, when i see my penis now (and i still can't realise how in only few months, after a shock not so terrible, it can have CHANGED SO MUCH, in anatomy, structure , size, form, lenght....), i don't see how any treatment could make me re have a normal penis and normal life. And i swear that before that, i had NEVER had only a mini problem one day concerning sex or genital area, never any problem at all. So, hard to accept that ALL PENIS AND ERECTILE CAPACITY DIED IN SO FEW TIME AFTER MAKING LOVE...Especially being not married or whatever. But the psychological consequences is another issue, what i am interested in is to find ALL THE POSSIBILITIES TO HEAL FISICALLY, or at least give amelioration. Coz if there is NOTHING to do (and i'd like a F^@$!ng specialist to dare telling the truth and being honest and competent), i don't see interest for me to lose my time, my money and my life in this hell situation.
To PainIsGrowth:
Hi man, yes i know that we live about the same thing, and it hapened at same moment... I conclude like you that we don't have peyronie, but a variation, and worse one, coz making us totally impotent and total loss of sensations and big shrinkage. But there is a role of fibrosis in our casesn even if its not a typical peyronie plaque.
What is a 'spinal cord'? I know since the begining that the fact our libidos are low IS NOT DUE TO mental or stress,or even testosterone or whatever. I know, i feel, it's TOTALLY ORGANIC. The hatred i have, is why with F^@$!ng money lost in exams and crap specialists, no one helped us.
I wanted to ask you, you had told me about some venous leak for you, how was it diagnosed? (what exam?) Did you passed the MRI now?
I totaly understand what you explain and feel when you say 'i know i want to feel horny and should feel horny but my damaged body isn't allowing it to happen'. Like you, i have no more reaction by looking at nude beauty, or every thing else, even my girlfriend, who is really attractive makes me no reaction,(and she tries... and even with cialis it becomes very hard to have intercourse now) and i exactly say the same to her : 'i know i should have a reaction!!! but i just can't coz body is broken' and its horrible when i know in my mind that I had very fast and strong erections less than one year ago, i had a great sexual life, and i know it's because something is fisically broken that it's dead. And it's easy to see that with eyes, by looking penis, so when doctors say 'its ok there is nothing', it makes me mad.
I continue too pentox but with no real hope. For regenerating nerves, i had read about complements of Dr Lin , but i think it's not serious stuff, only crap to make money on the despair of people, but there were some interesting testimonies on his site (but are these testimonies real?) ,don't know if anybody tried these products??
I don't know too how to go out from this hell, when people who had to help us didn't. Sometimes i just want to finish all that now. Sometimes i want to fight again. But last consultation with a 'specialist' (what a joke) definitely killed me. I feel dead being alive...
Antony,
Re-read my post carefully. When young men come here in pain, I have noticed that they often do not pay close attention to what is said to them. I wrote:
"In rats and rabbits, this combination has been shown to REVERSE fibrosis in those animal models of Peyronie's disease."
This could not be more clear. I understand that you are concerned, but you typed a ton of stuff without seeming to have read what I wrote. From a personal standpoint this is discouraging, because it makes it seem as if what I write is irrelevant.
Keep working on getting better. Wallowing in pain shall not help you at all. If you see a term that you do not understand it, either google it or look it up - you can learn a lot about what is happening to you by reading and paying attention - for now it seems that you emotional pain is preventing you from making much progress.
Tim
Tim,
Sorry you make mistake, you answered and i read your answers carefully (or i would not ask help here if i would not read well answers).
Of course there are some terms i don't understand precisely or sometimes -rarely- some meanings in english, but most of time i understand.
You 1st told me that combination of l-arginine, viagra and pentox had reversed fibrosis in human cases, but, if i understand well, in fact that these treatments were given to them in order NOT TO DEVELOP fibrosis after priapism; and not for HEALING fibrosis (if i've well understood the precision you gave after).
Then , 'in rats and rabbits, this combination has been shown to reverse fibrosis in those animals models of peyronie disease'.... yes, but we are not rabbits and rats. If it was the case, we could even repaired damages in our penis NOW with re engeneering because Atalla managed to do that on rabbits, and it works, so.... It's -sadly- not because it works on rabbits that it works on humans. I supose that we don't treat a human penis ,that is bigger in erection than the whole rabbit, as we treat a rabbit's or a rat's one. Moreover, i don't have a peyronie disease, at least classical one, or maybe yes , but directlly the end of it, when you have become impotent coz of too much diffuse fibrosis, i directly started by that.
I'm concerned of course, because as a conclusion from medical world, and of all what i tried (viagra, cialis, plants, continuing intercourses, anti depressor, VED, pentox -for only one month at the moment for this last one-, vit E, etc), there is nothing that helped, healed, or whatever, and at this point, i'm not far from realizing that my sexual life (and all consequences) is finished now. (maybe waiting years from re engeniring). So, yes i'm concerned, as all the other persons who have problem like this.
So one again, thank you for your answers that help me, and knowledge about what can help concernig fibrosis (and probably venous leak as a consequence -the trauma on tunica albugina forbids the tunica to make pressure on venous and blok the blood- for that reason that viagra or cialis don't work really). But please don't think wrong things, or have too quick conclusions: i can be concerned and attentive to what you say, and my emotional pain is of course terrible (all my life , from fisical appearance to profesional activities, including of course relations with girls and other persons, self-confidence, or activities have changed), but it's not that which prevents me from making progress, because i try, do, listen, read, ask, go to doctors, and take the medicines, and even try to continue relation with GF... It's just the useless of treatments in such a bad case that prevents me from making much progress, and that leads to this emotional pain, not in the other sense...
Antony
Gents, I've been reading some studies online that showed that in diabetics and men following radical prostate surgery, the combination of propionyl l carnitine and acetyl l carnitine (2g of each per day) plus viagra improved the efficacy of the viagra.
I currently take 3g of l arginine every day (Vasoflow), and when I'm going to be taking Viagra for sex, I take 2g of arginine one half hour before the Viagra to, in theory, create more nitric oxide for the Viagra to use ... but I think I'm going to try the 2 carnitines as a supplement to the viagra since these studies specifically show that to be effective (at least in diabetics and prostate surgery guys). Plus, frankly, Vasoflow is nasty - the taste and smell almost make me gag - I've never seen a pill I literally hate to touch! If I could switch to the carnitines instead of the arginine, I think I'd do it gladly.
My question is, is anyone already trying this (carnitines plus viagra)? I hate the thought of downing 14 pills every day (carnitines plus arginine), but I'm not opposed to it if it will help ...
Nemo
Nemo,
I am not an expert, but I think the carntine is more of an anti fibrotic kind of an agent. George has been posting some good info on AGE and saying the the ALC (Acytel-L-Carinitine) is one such agent.
Arginine as you noted is good for blood flow and erections. I dont know if you can substitute one for the other.
I do agree with you on the VasoFlow. I hate the stuff myself and have been cutting back on it to where I hardly take it now. I usually dont have any problems taking pills but this one is just something else. I would be interested to find a substitute.
perhaps u could try bulk AAKG or citrulline malate.
VasoFlow does smell strongly when one unscrews the bottle. But if you think that's bad, try bulk L-Arginine! I was making my own capsules for a while, but moved to VasoFlow because it has added Norvaline, which blocks the effects of "Arginase". Arginase promotes the formation of collagen and proline, and it competes (as an enzyme) with NO Synthase, which as the name suggests, aids in synthesis (creation) of NO.
But that powdered arginine was nasty! BTW, so is carnitine powder!
Tim
Vasoflow did not bother me at all until several here started drawing attention to the odor and I begin to focus on it more. Thanks a lot guys ;) ;D
I really think the sealed container odor is the only real issue. If you laid a couple of capsules out prior to taking them I think it would greatly reduce the issue if not eliminate it altogether.
I think ALC is a great supplement for general health and a benefit for Peyronies Disease. I am unaware of any immediate effect it has on erections or working synergisticly with Viagra however and I took it long before I tried L-Arginine. The ALC may have some effect on erections with long-term regular use that I am unaware of. It did eliminate the very minimal pain I had in the early stages and may have helped erections (difficult to know) but the first time I took L-Arginine I noticed a fuller hang within 30 minutes. I got nothing of that nature with ALC.
PS: I had a prostatectomy
Hawk, here's a study I found that claims ALC and PLC taken together increase the efficacy of viagra in prostate surgery patients. You might be interested in trying this, as I recall you saying viagra was only marginally effective for you.
Nemo
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VJW-4HHNH61-17&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=489386e31a2c990da6843bd84d1d44c2
Good Stuff Nemo!
Thanks Nemo.
I began an area for clinical studies of ED in our "Resource Library" and included your link.
Note that PLC is also beneficial for those with diabetes related ED:
Quote from: PubMedCONCLUSION: PLC plus sildenafil was more effective in reducing SI and endothelial dysfunction markers in patients with type 2 diabetes and ED.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=17478034&dopt=AbstractPlus (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=17478034&dopt=AbstractPlus)
Quote from: PubMedCONCLUSIONS: Salvage therapy with PLC plus sildenafil was more effective than sildenafil in the treatment of ED in patients with diabetes refractory to sildenafil monotherapy.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15383186?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15383186?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus)
Yet another really good read:
Quote from: Life Extension MagazineThe combination of 2 grams each of PLC and acetyl-L-carnitine daily was more effective than testosterone at improving nocturnal penile tumescence and the International Index of Erectile Function score, an important measure of erectile and sexual function. PLC and acetyl-L-carnitine thus appear to be safe, effective agents for managing male sexual dysfunction.42
http://lefcms.lef.org/magazine/mag2005/dec2005_supp_atherosclerosis_02.htm (http://lefcms.lef.org/magazine/mag2005/dec2005_supp_atherosclerosis_02.htm)
Quote from: Tim468 on December 30, 2007, 10:49:44 AM
I had a very modest, but measurable, improvement in my own "ED" (in quotes because I have not had complete ED, but "flagging erection quality" - softer than it used to be) using these supplements.
I did not see any change in my Peyronies. The other issue I have with these studies is that they seem to come from only Italy, and have not been verified in a multi-center, double blinded, placebo controlled study. Given the lack of efficacy that others are finding with Verapamil iontophoresis, for example, it makes one wonder about the veracity of Italian data in general.
Tim
Tim,
I placed this quote here only so it could be discussed if antone cared to discuss it since the Resource Library is not an open discussion area.
Hawk
Just a side note regarding ALC and PLC. Both ALC and PLC have anti-glycation properties. But each perform that function in different environments. ALC performs as an anti-glycant in water soluble environments while PLC performs as an anti-glycant in fat soluble environments. The extra-cellular matrix of the vascular system is fat soluble, thus this is where PLC is effective. On the other hand, most other tissues are composed of water soluble extra-cellular matrix wherein ALC is the effective supplement. So PLC targets vascular issues while ALC targets non-vascular issues. This would explain why one or the other might be more helpful or why one or the other might not be helpful at all in certain situations. - George
I'm visiting a Urologist at the Mayo clinic in Scottsdale next week as I'm trying to figure out why Viagra works great for me sometimes, and not others (has nothing to do with food, I always take on empty stomach). I'm also currently seeing an Endocrinologist because I'm scoring lower than I should on Testosterone tests (235 once and 434 a second time).
My question is this though ... I woul like to know if I have some degree of venous leakage, but my understanding is the only way they do this is to inject the penis to induce erection. However, as a Peyronie's survivor, I'm REALLY not interested in the potential for needle induced scarring.
Would you guys agree that I shouldn't let anyone give me any injections?
Thanks,
Nemo
Nemo:
Based on my experience with injections, I would run like a deer away from anyone even pointing a needle at me penis. I took the Verapamil injections for a while and each one gave me more nodules and plaque.
I am sure that many others here have been through the same thing. As for venous leakage, you can possibly do a check of that yourself. If you can get at least a partial erection, hold it as long as you can to determine if it "leaks" down quickly. If you can't get an erection without "help" from pills, but can get it partially up but won't hold up, you may have a problem with venous leakage. At least, that is the scenario that presented itself for me.
Others, I am sure, will give their experiences too. Good luck on trying to find out for sure. Maybe a visit to your uro who is knowledgeable with venour leakage can confirm it, etc.
Old Man
Is there a way that you can tell if the scarring has reached the corpora? I think I might be psyching myself out here - damn the psychological component of ED - but it seems like a few months ago I had no problems with erections, and now they are softer. Now, since considering the scarring might be a factor, I can't seem to get hard at all in the past few days. I'm 23 and looking at a life without a penis, and am getting horribly depressed. I know that's likely to be it, but if there's a way I can tell without going to a uro (have been to 3, none who have advocated ultrasound or anything other than "time") I'd like to hear it.
Thanks for weighing in Old Man. That's my thought too - I think needles are too risky.
As to venous leakage, I can get erect without pills - I can still masturbate, etc, it just requires manual stimulation to get myself up. However, I don't get erections that I can just leave unatended for long periods of time ... I need to give it a little manual stimulation to keep it hard, but I guess I figured that was due to 2 things: first, I'm 36, not 18 anymore; and second, Peyronie's left me with a little distal softness. The head doesn't get hard as it used to anymore, so I assumed that this makes my erection more "high maintenance" ... in other words, without stimulating the head, it does indeed start to wane within several seconds to a minute I guess - it doesn't wane rapidly, but it does wane. A little manual stimulation and I can stay up indefinately though. Now, if I'm getting close to orgasm, I do get harder to the point that I can leave it unattended for longer.
Often, my body position affects it ... If I'm sitting up, my erections get harder, or if I'm on top, they get harder, or standing up, etc. While I realize this could indicate leakage, I just attributed it to softer erections with age and gravity helping me out.
I hate to think this is venous leakage, because I realize that's pretty much irreversible. With Viagra, my erections do "lock in" meaning I can go for a faily long time with little or no manual stimulation and I'll stay erect. I just can't figure out why Viagra seems to be showing spotty results with me of late.
As to my testosterone, my initial test in Oct showed Total T of 235, which is definitely way too low for a 36yr old and could explain no nocturnals, etc. However a test last week showed Total T at 434, which has not got me totally confused. That isn't great T, but it's not clearly too low like 235 was.
I'm all confused and very down about all this. I'm in a relationship with a girl who loves me and says she's stand by me regardless, yet I know how much she loves sex, and I am sick thinking about a future where I'm always woncering from day to day, "will it work right tonight?" I realize things could be a lot worse, but that's where I am.
Nemo
Sounds like venous leakage to me.
When I had my Doppler they gave me a shot with a small amount of PGE1 in the penis. First they do a Doppler without the shot and then one after the shot. No the shot did not hurt just a little sting.
In most men low T do not effect erections just libido (my experience). It has taken me years and 3 Dr.'s to get the shots right. The one that finally got it right for me was my Primary Care Dr. (PCP). Now I get 300 mg of T every 10 days. Makes me feel great but does nothing for erections.
With a history of Peronies and Venous Leakage take it from me you do not want to go on the shots. (The only shot you want is for the Doppler). I have tried V, C and L. now now little to no responce.
I did tri-mix shots for a couple of year. Then had to have heart stints and Dr. said no more because of the blood thinners.
Last October when I was having implant surgery the surgeon penetrated the urethra and had to stop the implant. Why, fibrosis in the corpora's. Dr. explained that the fibrosis was from the shots and a history of pereonies but mainly the shots.
Now I am going to different Dr's about trying the implant again.
Get your Uro or PCP to do a custom fit VED and keep that penis healthy. I wish I had that advise years ago.
"old man" has the VED down to an art. Listen to him.
Good Luck wish you well.
Jackp
Well, even if I do have venous leakage, I don't really see the point of getting an injection, seeing as there's nothing they can really do about it. My real quest is to figure out why Viagra has eratic efficacy with me.
Nemo
I think that most men with Peyronies Disease have a degree of venous leakage. That is why Peyronies Disease is frequently accompanied by ED. The ED is usually caused by the Venous leakage which caused by the plaque/fibroses.
I agree, telling a Peyronies Disease patient that he has Venous leakage means nothing. Venous leakage or not most ED is treated the same way. Your options are still 1,2,3,or 4 that is pills, injections, vacuum, or implant.
Nemo, please do a search on injection or ultrasound. I have asked the same question a few months ago. Many people responded with their views.
Nemo have your Dr. tried increasing the dosage of the V ? or may be switching you to Levitra which may be stronger than V ?
Good Luck,
Pal
Hi Pal-31. About 5 months ago I started using Viagra and 25mg would work like an atomic bomb - lasting into the next day even. Occasionally, if I'd eaten a meal or something, I'd take 50mg with the same effect. Then about 3 months ago, I had a couple incidences in a row where I wasn't getting hard during kissing/hugging, etc, which had always been the case before. On these occasions, it required direct oral for a few minutes to get me hard, but then the V was clearly working as the erections were firmer and lasted after climax. This freaked me out though that the V seemed to faulter a bit.
I started taking 1.5 grams of L-Arginine half an hour before the Viagra and whamo, there it was again - fully erect before clothes came off. But after a couple weeks of this, it got back to where it took oral to get hard. Upped dosage of Arginine to 2 grams before V and there it was again. Now, a month later, back to needing oral to get hard. Any more, I usually take 50mg of Viagra just to err on the side of plenty. I don't really know if the Arginine is a factor, but I'm scared to go back to the V alone at this point.
The whole thing just freaks me out, as the V was really a confidence booster for me, as I didn't have to worry about getting enough stimulation to stay hard. But now, I'm no longer confident that the V will work every time. So far, it's never failed me, but the variability in the way it works scares me. I just can't believe my body would build tolerance to V in a matter of 3 months though. That's what got me checking Testosterone, which is a whole other issue, of course.
I will ask for samples of Levitra, thanks.
Ocelot and others,
I disagree that all men with Peyronies Disease have venous leakage although many do.. Some have NO ED issues at all. Ocelot, I also sense you are concluding that ED has something to do with scar tissue forming in the corpus cavernosum (CC). I think there is little basis to draw that conclusion. If there is, I have sure not seen it.
My understanding is that Peyronies Disease related ED when present is most likely a result of venous leakage (other than psychological issues). I think the leakage has everything to do with the positioning of the plaque more than the degree of plaque. I can imagine a few ways that an area of plaque could prevent a major vein from being squeezed shut during an erection. If the blood flow in does not exceed the blood flow out, no erection results. This incidentally is usually caused by plaque on the tunica not the CC.
I think any good penis ring (one that can be removed without stress or injury) tight around the base of the penis would answer the question. Since the Veins are near the surface and the tunica, the ring/band pinches them closed but not the deeper arteries. Vacurect VED makes some that I think are ideal for use with their VED. I have used they without the VED. Their system is different than most since they are more like a flat rubber washer that goes on the penis before erection, rather than a rubber band that goes on after the erection. They also have a wider contact poiont with the skin. They become tight as the erection grows. Actis makes a slip noose that can be tightened or loosened. Such a ring/band will possibly work better if there is not plaque near the very base of the penis where the band would go.
Guys, if you've read any of my posts in recent months, you may recall my finding that Viagra isn't working for me like it was when I started using it about 5 months ago. I'm 36, 170lbs, good blood pressure, cholestoral, etc. At first, Viagra was really killer, giving me nice firm erections that required only minimal stimulation to stay hard indefinately, and refractory period was mere minutes. I was in heaven, because the distal softness Peyronie's left me with was rendered moot by the V - my erections were quick to engage and lasted as long as I wanted.
However, about two or three months in, the Viagra seemed to be faltering. No longer would I get hard during kissing, etc., it was taking direct oral to get hard, but once I did, I could tell the V was "in there" as the erection was nice and solid and remained longer after ejaculation (a Viagra calling card.) I then started taking 1.5g of L-Arginine before the Viagra and bam, there it was - the pre-sex erections, and the whole nine yard. Over a couple weeks this began to wane and I was back to needing oral to get hard. So, I then started 2g of Arginine before the V and bam, there it was again, same as before. After about a month, this has now waned back to needing oral or hand stimulation. This was all freaking me out as I really feel the V is not working on me like it was just a few short months ago and it seemed to happen all at once. I got my Testosterone checked and it was low at 235. Got it rechecked and it was 434, so I'm confused there but will follow up as I know from reading that in men with Low T, Viagra is not as effective, but once T is adjusted, V then works better.
All that is to set up the scary events of last night. Here's what you need to know. At lunch I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and at dinner I had two small granola bars - that's all the food I had yesterday. At about 4:00 I went to the gym to workout for the first time in many months - it wore my ass out and I ran a mile on the treadmill, which I never run, so this was very tiring. I left pooped. Went out to a late movie with my girl and took my usual 2g Arginine at 10:30 and 50mg Viagra at 11:00. We didn't get home until about 1:30AM. Hopped in bed and I got hard with a little hand action. Erection stayed there for me during all of foreplay and was ready when I needed it. I was already quite tired from the workout that day, the long day, little sleep the night before and the very minimal food intake but once I was having sex, I noticed it just didn't feel as good as it should (almost a lack of feeling) and sure enough, I began to lose my Viagra erection. We stopped, a little handwork and it was back up, tried again, and after a few minutes, lost it again. This happened three times - I was finally able to complete the act on the third time.
OK, this was scary enough, as I never lose a Viagra erection. But then about 3 in the morning, I awake sweating, feeling nautious and dizzy. I get up to go to the bathroom and pass out. My girl took me back to the bed and I immediately felt better, like nothing had happened. I surmised that the lack of food, exercise and combination of Arginine and V had caused my blood pressure to drop, which in turn dropped me. I can kind of understand this, because I've taken Arginine and V several times now with no lightheadedness or ill effect. I think my body was running on empty and couldn't handle the chemicals I put in it.
But could my physical condition that night account for the erection losses? Has anyone ever lost an erection on Viagra? This scared me worse than anything, since I'm already panicked about the V losing efficacy in me. I'm seeing a Uro at the Mayo Clinic on Wed hoping he can help me, but my other uro was less than helpful on why Viagra was giving me mixed results. I'm hoping you guys might have some personal experience you can share.
Thanks guys,
Nemo
Nemo, I think that you are right about why you collapsed. You should run it by your doc too.
The erection sounds like it was simply not meant to be. Every word of your post made me uptight - Good God! I felt the tension and I wasn't even there! It seems that you are focusing on erectile success so much that you are really a set up for failure on a psychological basis.
I suggest that you sit down with your girlfriend and talk to her )not that you have not already done this. Tell her how scared that you are. How hard this is on you, How much pressure that you feel as the concern mounts that you might develop ED. All that is apparent to me reading your post - I would make it clear to her as well.
Then, the two of you could develop a way for you to not have so much panic about your sexuality. You can agree that you will have some sex with "no intercourse allowed" - restricted to only kissing and touching. Making it a rule that you cannot have sex will make your concern about your hardness irrelevant, and allow you to actually focus on how you feel about your partner (remember her?). It can allow you to develop a sensate focus that is not soley based on your penis erection quality, but on all of you. Then, your concerns about your sexuality failing will lessen, and I predict that you will feel better.
Tim
Nemo:
I agree with Dr. Tim's post about you being over anxious about your sexuality. In adddition, I would like to suggest that you get a good heart check up as well. You probably know that Viagra is not RXd for a heart patient who might have low blood pressure or are taking nitrates, etc.
I would strongly urge you to see at least your family physician for a good thorough going over exam to include the heart. He/she should get you an appointment with a cardiologist to get all aspects of your heart checked. I know that once my cardiologist RXd nitrates for my angina, the Viagra contraindictions clearly state to refrain from taking it if one is on nitrates, etc. BTW, Viagra did not work for me anyway.
Anyway, I like Dr. Tim , think that you are placing too much emphasis on getting and keeping an erection. From your post, you had driven yourself well beyond the normal limits of one's day activities. Step back, take a look at what you said in your post, then decided if it sounds like a normal day for one of your age. You might find that you agree with me as well as the good Dr.
Old Man
Tim and Old Man, you guys are absolutely right, and I appreciate your compassion and thoughtfulness. In fact, I have become totally preoccupied with my erectile performance since I've been in this relationship. You'll be glad to know that she and I have a very open and loving relationship and we talk openly about Peyronie's, ED, Viagra and everything else. I knew I couldn't hide anything from her for long, so we talk about it quite openly and she could not be more supportive. I am blessed to have her.
I guess basically I was looking for some reassurance, which you've given me. I did push my body too hard yesterday and paid a price for it. But honestly guys, I do feel that the Viagra is not working in me with the same efficacy as it did at first. I am still trying to get to the bottom of whether I warrant testosterone replacement (as I don't get nocturnal, spontaneous or morning erections any more), but am also hoping to determine if there might be some other reason my body seemed to tolerate Viagra awfully quickly. (I've never heard of it stopping working on someone that fast).
Again, I appreciate you guys' words of counsel. The black dog of depression has gripped me over this, as I fear a future where I can't have the kind of sex she and I are used to. But honestly, I do feel that the lack of nocturnals, etc., is my body telling me something is wrong ... I just didn't care to find out until my secret weapon (the viagra) started faultering. When that started happening, yes, I became obsessed. I feel like I'm fighting for my sexual health if not my sanity.
Thanks again,
Nemo
A woman who leaves you over erectile failure is worth losing. But a woman who stays with a crazy man isn't worth having either. All you can do is work on YOU. You indeed may be having failing erectile health. So what are you going to do about that? From the VED to the implants, there are options to be able to have a sex life with a loving partner. But for now, you need to focus on being more emotionally stable, and on choosing a methodical and smart way of figuring out what is going wrong.
You can do both - you can have worsening ED and/or Peyronie's Disease and be working on it, AND be sane and happy. The sane and happy part is not DEPENDENT on having a perfectly healthy penis - it is dependent on your heart and soul. Sometimes that takes some hard work - like talking to a therapist, and taking medications, and using weird contraptions like a traction device. But we can always work on our health for the better without going crazy in the process.
Tim
Laurence A. Levine, MD, FACS, Professor of Urology at Rush University, Chicago, IL will be answering call-in questions this Wed., 1/23/08, between 12noon and 1pm Eastern Time at 888-463-6748 (international callers can call 011-847-470-0937).
It's a live broadcast on the Dave Baum Show at TalkZone.com and Dr. Levine can answer all kinds of questions about men's sexual health including:
1. ED (erectile dysfunction),
2. low testosterone and its association with diabetes, hypertension, metabolic syndrome
3. Peyronie's Disease (bent penis)
The broadcast will also be archived at TalkZone.com if you would like to listen later.
Welcome to the forum Rjones. I see from your email address you are associated with "Talkzone". We appreciate you taking the time to register and announce this on the PDS forum.
Hawk, are you still taking L-Arginine with Viagra? If so, how much do you take and do you take it with the V or before (and if so how long before)?
When I noticed the V was not hitting me as hard as before (after only a few months), I started taking 1.5g of Arginine, and it kicked me right back to superior performance. Then after a couple weeks or so, it was petering out. I increased to 2g, 30 minutes before the V, and again, superior performance. Month later, back to where it was.
Just wondering what your protocol is.
Nemo
Nemo,
I take 1500 mg arginine. I take one 500 mg tab every 30 min and pop a 20mg Levitra (maximum strength) with the last arginine.
it gets me right to the point of just good enough of an erection to have fairly normal sex. I am at least fortunate that whatever degree of erection I get, it lasts as long as I want it to. While I have a problem with degree of erection, i never have a problem with the erection lasting. On occasion I have used the VED or just the band without the VED, which gives me a harder erection.
I have never felt faint from the combo and I have ideal blood pressure 110/60 - 125/70
My brother-in-law recently tried a Viagra as an enhancement and after sex he went to the bathroom. They were in a motel. His wife wondered why he was gone so long and he told her he passed out and came to on the floor. They just laugh about it although I would be cautious.
So Hawk, is your theory that you're building up the 1500mg in your system slowly, rather than swallowing 3 pills (arginine) all at once?
Nemo
Nemo,
I wish I had a theory. While I know how long the Levitra tends to take, I am never sure of how long the arginine takes or how long it lasts so I stagger the dose so I am sure I have some arginine in my system. Since I take levitra on an empty stomach, staggering the arginine seems to be easier on my system. My schedule of taking this is little more than my quirky way of taking it. I would not read too much into it.
PS: I corrected a serious typo in my previous post.
That's an interesting way to do it. I started taking 1.5g an hour before the viagra, and that worked great for a little while, then not as much. So then I started taking 2g half an hour before and that worked great for about a month. Now, tonight, I'm going to try just the 50mg Viagra alone and see what happens. That passing out incident the other night didn't bother me so much, but I feel like I need to reevaluate just how effective the Viagra is alone once again to know where I am with it. The arginine was clouding the issue.
I know I have a few theories I keep talking about (like my testosterone possibly being low, or venous leakage/arterial issues), but the damned performance anxiety is the real bitch because you can never assess what role that is playing. But I swear, sometimes, it just seems that the head of my penis is not as sensitive. Lately, to even masturbate (no Viagra) I have to work the penis pretty vigorously until I'm almost ready to orgasm, then it starts becoming erect and then I can build it up into a nice erection. I wonder if this is Peyronie's related, as I have pretty evident distal flacidity thanks to Peyronie's. But who knows for sure - ED is a frickin' hornet's nest.
Nemo,
I hope that you take seriously my advice to back away from sex for a bit to reduce the anxiety. this is not a case of getting back in the saddle (so to speak) - rather, it is a time for sober and calm reflection on what you have and what you do not have. The more that you work your penis to get it hard, to assess how much sensitivity it has, to see how long it stays hard etc, the more problems I predict you are going to have.
Really try some "sensate focusing". Look it up for more details. You need to give your poor dick a break, IMHO.
Tim
Nemo,,,,,Tim is right man,,you really need to listen to what he is saying...I went through the exact same thing you are going through....I ended up going to a sex physcologist, and he told me to just relax as i was worrying about it too much and making things worse...The more you try to perform ,,,key word here is [ TRY ],,,the worse it gets....I've been there..
I learned to relax and after some time went by things started to come back,,,my sensitivity in my penis and i was able to ejaculate again and overall feelings and performance all came back....SO,,,,like Tim says,,give your dick a rest and when you go to have sex,,just enjoy the moment and take it as it comes....It really does work......
kimo
Thanks guys, I know you are right. I will be giving it a break for a few days.
The good news is tonight, I used a Viagra with no L-Arginine at all. To my surprise, it worked like it did in the good old days, up before clothes were shed and ready when I needed it all night. This proves to me an important point - I had decided that Viagra was no longer as effective in me, or losing effect at least. This proved to me tonight that while it may sometimes work better than others, it has not lost effectiveness. This, in and of itself, is a big relief and will hopefully ease my mind a bit.
I'm still pursuing with a doc at the Mayo to determine why I don't get nocturnal/morning erections (and ultimately, if I have venous leakage) but at least now I know my chemical companion has not abandoned me.
Your advice is much appreciated, and I will take heed.
In response to Nemo's previous message...
---snip---
"But I swear, sometimes, it just seems that the head of my penis is not as sensitive. Lately, to even masturbate (no Viagra) I have to work the penis pretty vigorously until I'm almost ready to orgasm, then it starts becoming erect and then I can build it up into a nice erection. "
------
This is something I have been having problems with as well. Even with 50mg Viagra, my erection stops at the hourglass leaving the remainder and the head soft and only semi erect. I find I have to use two fingers to pull the shaft skin down at the base of my penis during intercourse in order to feel any sensation at the head. Otherwise I have difficulty achieving orgasm.
I tried a tension ring that I purchased at an adult store and it helps to keep things stretched out. But I really don't know how those things should be put on, what kind to buy, etc. Some web sites say to loop the ring around the scrotum along with the penis; others say just around the penis. I still have a lot to learn.
That's what's known as "distal flacidity," meaning the penis downstream of the Peyronie's damage doesn't get good blood flow. I think this is pretty common, at least my doc says he hears this frequently in Peyronies Disease guys.
One thing to consider though - I've found that Viagra and the others (Levitra and Cialis) tend to make it a little more difficult for me to reach orgasm (which I don't really mind). I originally started using them because they give me a solid enough erection that doesn't require vigorous action to stay up, as it would without the drugs. But there are times (especially if I've already orgasmed once) that vaginal sex just won't bring me to orgasm a second time. I've heard other guys says these drugs make it harder for them to orgasm, so that may be some of the issue with you.
If you are able to have sex without Viagra once, you might try and see if you don't orgasm quicker without it.
Good luck,
Nemo
NxNW,
In addition to functional use, penis rings also represent some quasi sado-masochistic ornamentation in some circles. There is never a functional reason to put a band or ring behind the testicles ( between the body and testicles).
There is an adjustable Actis loop that receives mixed reviews. It works like a slip knot and can be gently put on or taken off the penis. I would be cautious with anything that causes discomfort or trauma because you my well make the Peyronies Disease worse.
I would consider getting the rings (flat washers) that go with the vacurect VED if you can buy them separately. I have that unit and I think the rings are of value even without the VED. There is a good picture of these rings along with the unit at http://www.fitzz.com/Bonro-Medical-Vacurect-OTC-Penis-Pump-P952C0.aspx You may have to contact vacurect to see if you can buy them seperately.
I know what you're saying, Hawk. I think I may have some degree of venous leakage, but I've always been a little scared of the penis rings for fear of the tension putting stress on the tunica that might trigger the Peyronie's devil into action.
I know Old Man and other use the VED and rings for sex, but I'm still a little aprehensive about those tight buggers. Right now, I think I can feel a very slight indention near the base that fills out when I'm fully erect. But it sits right about where a ring would sit, so there's no way I want to put stress on it. I'm sure a lot of guys use them successfully though.
Nemo
I do not use the tension ring (thankfully I do not need it) but the Osborne system seems smart. It has a cutout to go over the urethra to allow outflow of semen, thus without cinching off everything.
Tim
Tim,
I agree with your point on the urethral cut-out making sense but I have other concerns with the design of most VED rings including the Osborne.
I have never used the Osborne unit and have only seen videos of its use but these are my concerns with the Osborne design as I understand: The Osborne ring (like most VED rings) is stretched under tension and literally released under tension onto the penis. It actually takes a cone to wedge the ring open and it is then slid off the large end on the cone or VED, snapping tight on the penis.
With the vacurect design, the penis is inserted through the hole in the ring prior to a full erection with absolutely no tension. The penis then slowly expands to fit snuggly into the ring. The Vacurect ring also has a flange so the point of contact with the penis is wider than narrow band-type rings that usually come with VEDs.. This would also seem to disperses the pressure against the penis tissue.
It is the sudden transfer of energy to penis tissue by an expanded ring that bothers me. This "snap" of energy onto the penis seems be the major problem with most VED ring designs.
A less important consideration is convenience. The Vacurect design does not require a single piece of equipment to put it on, just a penis and the ring.
Yes, "snapping" that ring off onto the penis seems scary to me, and it is very tight. Perhaps Old Man could weigh in with his experience in this area. Just seems like potential "trauma" to me.
Nemo
Both the possibility of a sudden snap, and, in fact, the possible trauma of just "too tight, too long" both concern me. However, it seems one could adapt to this problem by using a not-to-tight ring and carefully easing it onto the penis. The only reason I can think of would be to use it for intercourse. Keeping a hard erection to stretch out the tissue is nice, but I see no benefit other than a slight increase in mobility (say you have to answer the front door...), over simply leaving the pump in place. :-\
I am interested in whether or not the Vacerect rings could be adapted to other cylinders. I have some with a slightly flared base, and some with a flat base that would not fit it. IA am attaching pictures of the flared and flat based cylinders to make this more clear. Looking around I am noticing sveral products designed to make a better seal - I like the idea of a ring that gets on easily and stays tight enough to aid in an erection.
Tim
Note to all:
There seems to be wide and varied opinions as to the use of penis rings to hold up an erection for sex. Please note that it has been stated all along that these rings are intended solely to hold up an erection for sex and are NOT TO BE USED FOR Peyronies Disease THERAPY EXERCISES. I know that there has been bad experiences of using retainer rings which for the most part IMHO has been due to improper use of them.
So, having said that, I will endeavor to put to rest some ideas that seem to cause concern among our members about using the retainer rings. First, if one needs to use "help" in holding up an erection, they must arrive at the proper tension of that ring to provide enough time to complete the sex cycle before removing them. Getting the proper ring takes a little practice putting them on and removing them. The Osbon Esteem VED that I first purchased had a video that showed how to place them on and removing them comfortably and without damage to the penis. I know that this video is not available to any and all who do not own the Esteem model, but the same principle applies to any retainer ring that is made like or similar to the Esteem rings.
Dr. Tim is right in that the design of the Osbon ring is such that it applies pressure at the right position to hold in the blood and at the same time allows for protection of the urethra and prevent damage to it. Again, experience in applying and removing them also must be gained to get the most benefit of them without further damage. There has been a problem, at least in my case, with using the application tool that comes with the Esteem model. It is designed to assist in placing the rings on the cylinder prior to their use. This can cause the rings to be torn if not lubricated well before sliding them off onto the cylinder. Also, the cylinder must be lubricated prior to using this tool or else the rings will not slide off the cylinder easily when needed.
Another thing that has to be practiced is when the ring is slid off onto the cylinder that the entire VED must be pressed firmly against the body which allows for a smoother and less irritating transfer. It takes practice and patience to get a good transfer without trauma. At this point, I must state that I have never had any trauma or pain in making the transfer of the rings. I did practice using the soft latex ring that came with original Osbon Esteem VED until it was a comfortable situation. So, as it has been said, practice make perfect applies here.
In all of my experience and that of many other guys using a VED for ED and/or Peyronies Disease, none have ever stated that they suffered any damage or trauma to their penises. Again, I agree with Dr. Tim that the design of the Osbon ring is my choice of all the retainer rings that have been tried by me and others. The Actis retainer ring, for instance in most cases, does not allow enough tension to retain an erection long enough for sexual activity. They were given to a group of guys in my area for trial and most rejected them as a viable ring for sexual activity (just our impression though).
So, the bottom line for me at least, is that one must try any and all types of retainer rings and apply usage of the one that bests suits their needs. Whereas the Obson design ring works best for me, it might not be the weapon of choice for others. My objection to the round retainer rings without outer rings is that they do not give the option of relieving the pressure before sliding them off the shaft.
One last thought about the Osbon ring -- when removing them one must reach a finger or two into the outer loops, pull out on them until the pressure of the vacuum in the penis subsides before trying to slide the ring off the shaft. This outward pressure of the ring must be maintained the entire time while sliding them off the shaft. In addition, one must lubricate the shaft well before sliding them off too as a "dry" penis skin will not allow for easy removal.
I am sure that others have opinions as to the use and removal of retainers rings, so I welcome comments pro and con for their use.
Old Man
Added note to previous post by me:
Forgot to mention that any retainer that is used on the penis must be removed after not more than a 30 minute time limit.
As the ring simply acts as a tourniquet to hole the erection up, 30 minutes is what is medically known as the longest time that blood can be "denied access" to a body part before trauma occurs.
So, be sure to remember this when using the rings for sex to prevent further damage to one of our most prized body possessions.
Old Man
Old Man
IMHO some try to tight of a constriction ring to start with. I know in the beginning I wanted to get it up and keep it. It took time and some different rings to figure out what was best for me. Too tight a ring will cutoff feelings and make it more difficult to ejaculate.
I use the Augusta Medical RX VED with Osborn rings. Only use rings for sex and not fibrosis therapy.
Using your pump and release method of therapy has helped me a lot. Gained back some length and penis now feels more normal.
I looked at the Vacurect that Hawk uses. Looks like a great design but can you use it for therapy only without the rings?
Jackp
JackP:
You are 100% right about using the right retainer rings. That is why I try to explain every chance possible that one should work slowly, take enough time to get the right tension ring when going for erections for sex. Yes, no one should ever use a restrictor ring of any kind when doing vacuum therapy. That is a very bad NO NO. Serious damage can and will result if a restrictor ring is used during vacuum therapy.
I have no clue about using the Vacuerect VED. Hawk should be able to give you an answer on that. The Vacuerect is made a company that was formed by a former employee of the Augusta Medical Supply company and is a very good unit. However, I have never seen one, much less know enough about them to discuss their use. Have only seen them advertised on line.
Old Man
yeah. Everything must be on safety first.
Links deleted by administrator and member warned of a pending ban from the forum for posting spam.
mike,
Not sure I understand your comment. Is it a vehicle to get us to look at and click on all the links in your signature file?
Tim
I'm not linking to two in any meaningful way, but the propeciahelp website forum contains a side effects section dedicated to penile fibrosis & peyronies disease (http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=31&sid=edfe4489ab173dfb134480bf303a4a34) and threads that make you wonder if taking propecia can be unwise in terms of tipping the balance of penile health:
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1136
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=339
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59
There are also tens of posts suggeting that propecia may have a rather unpredictable impact on various hormone levels.
Quote from: Tim468 on November 22, 2007, 09:29:49 AM
Antony,
Your points are good ones: how could something change that fast? I don't think that this may apply to you, as it was so rapid. I think lower than average testosterone levels (or function) may be related to Peyronie's (or Peyronies-like) fibrosis in older men. It may also be a problem in younger men getting finasteride (Propecia) for hair loss.
Testosterone levels go down gradually as you age. Sometimes they drop too fast or too soon - mine did. I very much wonder if some of the "increase" in Peyronie's is related to older men now believing that they have a right to an erection. The use of Viagra has really changed things for men IMHO. Older men may have previously suffered in silence - now they are speaking up. So, the connection between Peyronie's Disease and aging (already known) and Testosterone levels will perhaps be understood better.
Instead, Antony, your problem came on so fast, it sounds more like the overwhelming fibrosis that develops after getting priapism. In that condition, there is damage done to the penile structures that leads to progressive fibrosis. That is the problem that was treated effectively with Viagra, Pentox and Arginine by Tom Lue in a case report of two men.
In that case, there was a discreet wound that happened, followed by a wound healing process gone awry. In your case, there seems to be an on-going wound process that has not "happened", but is "happening". That may imply that there is more to come, and that therapy geared towards helping recover will be ineffective until the process has moved into the resolution phase.
It is very frustrating that the cause of your problem remains unknown, for you cannot know when it is over, or if there is anything to do to stop that process from getting worse. Obviously, if it goes very far, it will be harder to recover from no matter what you do. That is really scary for you I bet, and my heart goes out to you.
If it is helpful to recall this, remember that A) it should stop getting worse soon enough, B) anti-fibrotic therapy may help you recover, C) surgery may provide you with a way to have a satisfying and happy lovelife and sex life, D) progress in reconstructive surgery, including fashioning of new penile tissue to replace damaged tissue is on the way. It may not be this year, but during your lifem and during your active sex life, such progress will happen such that YOU can benefit from it. So, never say 'die' - there is always hope.
To Pal-31
MY best advice is to get a level measured and to discuss it with your doctor.
Tim
ED an Indicator of Men's Health
Dysfunction could be the 'portal' to heart problems, vascular disease, type 2 diabetes, study says (http://www.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=616455)
Quote from: HealthDay"Erectile dysfunction is a portal into men's health," the study's senior author, Dr. Aksam Yassin, of the Clinic for Urology and Andrology of the Segeberger Clinics in Norderstedt, Germany, wrote in a prepared statement.
"It is becoming clear that obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, cholesterol problems and erectile difficulties are intertwined, and a common denominator is testosterone deficiency."
Everything we learn about Peyronies and ED argues for a more systemic and global approach to treatment. - George
I have Peyronies and I am able to still have sex with my Girlfriend, what I was wondering since my penis is bent (down) would that prevent her from getting pregnant?
We have talked about this and I am in the process of getting a fertility test which I suspect will be normal. She thinks that because it is bent (down) and is not totally erect that the possibility of getting pregnant is reduced.
I did talk to my doctor about this and he explained that as long as there is penetration she can still get pregnant. basically having Peyronies does not change the outcome or reduce the changes of getting her pregnant. I am able to archive a full erection (bent) and Penetrate her with no problem. Some positions are more problems then others. (can anyone offer any suggestions)?
I hope someone can help me here because I very much want to have kids and I have heard conflicting ideas on the subject. I have had Peyronies for about 10 years and only recently have decided to investigate it further.
Please Help
Zone611
When one googles "zone611" it gives mostly hits from China. This really makes me suspect this is spam - though it appears to be genuine in terms of wording and not advertising anything.
Perhaps someone from China had to erase his "trail" and will come back to read here, but for some reason does not want to remain registered.
Tim
Zone 911 registered, made multiple posts then deleted his registratin
Registration is a requirement for posting. This user deleted his registration. That coupled with the Google hits, the duplicate posts, and the unusual nature of the question, are cause for deleting the posts. If Zone611 was a sincere person looking for help, hopefully he will return and register.
I remind all readers that we take GREAT pains here to protect privacy and registration does not reveal a person's true identity.
New article...
Long-Term Safety and Efficacy of Tadalafil 5 mg Dosed Once Daily in Men with Erectile Dysfunction.Porst H, Rajfer J, Casabé A, Feldman R, Ralph D, Vieiralves LF, Esler A, Wolka AM, Klise SR.
Private practice of Urology and Andrology, Hamburg, Germany.
Introduction. With once-daily administration of tadalafil, dosing and sexual activity would no longer need to be temporally linked for patients with erectile dysfunction (ED). Aim. To evaluate long-term safety and efficacy of tadalafil 5 mg dosed once daily for the treatment of ED. Methods. Patients >/=18 years of age with ED of any functional severity or etiology received tadalafil 5 mg once daily for 1 (N = 234) or 2 (N = 238) years during the open-label extensions of two previously reported studies. Patients who completed the 1-year open-label extension concluded with a 4-week ED treatment-free period. Baseline was defined as prior to receiving any study drug. Main Outcome Measures. Safety measures included adverse events, electrocardiograms, and clinical laboratory measures. Efficacy measures included the International Index of Erectile Function (IIEF)-Erectile Function (-EF), -Intercourse Satisfaction (-IS), and -Overall Satisfaction (-OS) domain scores, and the Global Assessment Questions (GAQ1: improved erections; GAQ2: improved ability to engage in sexual activity). Results. Overall, 208/234 (88.9%) and 139/238 (58.4%) patients completed the 1- and 2-year open-label extensions, respectively. No study drug-related serious adverse events were observed. Treatment-emergent adverse events observed in >/=5% of the patients during the first year of either open-label extension were dyspepsia, headache, back pain, and influenza. No clinically meaningful abnormalities associated with tadalafil were observed for electrocardiograms or clinical laboratory measures. Mean IIEF domain scores improved from baseline to the conclusions of the 1- and 2-year open-label extensions, respectively: -EF, +10.4 and +10.8; -IS, +4.0 and +3.7; and -OS, +3.0 and +3.2. At the conclusion of the 2-year open-label extension, 95.7% and 92.1% of the patients reported positive responses to GAQ1 and GAQ2, respectively. Conclusions. In these long-term, open-label, once-daily dosing studies, tadalafil 5 mg was well tolerated and effective, making it a viable alternative to the current on-demand dosing of tadalafil for men with ED.
Good info, Tim, thanks for posting.
I haven't been on the forum for a while, so I just thought I'd drop by and post an update on how I'm doing. Back in January, I thought I might have started a new bout of Peyronies Disease, and was freaking out. Concurrently, I'd also been having issues with what I thought was the diminishing effectiveness of Viagra, which I'd been using for only a few months.
At the risk of jinxing myself, I think I'm doing pretty good these days.
As it stands, I'm tentatively, cautiously going to say I don't think it's Peyronies Disease that has been causing the sensations I've been having in the penis the last few months. I did a phone consult with Dr. Levine, and he said he thought it might actually be my prostate, since I'd developed a prostate infection just a month before I started having weird sensations in the penis. I thought the prostate infection had resolved, but I suspect it's possible that it hasn't resolved completely, or has moved around, as I now sometimes get the feeling in the testicles, sometimes in the penis, sometimes not a all - but it's never in two places at once, it just moves around, so I have to believe there are nerves involved, as opposed to a Peyronies Disease like injury. Thankfully, I'm proud to say after six months, there has been no bending or palpable plaque formation, so I'm guardedly hopeful it wasn't a Peyronies Disease flare-up.
The really good news, however, is that this whole situation did produce something really positive - I no longer am taking Viagra or Levitra. For the last few years, I'd noticed I'd completely stopped having nocturnal erections. I had my uro test my Testosterone and it was indeed low (237 once and 435 another time), which for a 36 year old seemed pretty low. Nevertheless, I couldn't get my uro to care - he just didn't care about NTEs and said use the Viagra if you need it.
However, when all this panic about Peyronies Disease started in January, I started taking L-Arginine (vasoflow), Acetyl l-Carnitine, Propionyl l Carnitine, Zinc, and Pentox (once a day). I firmly believe the combination of these really is affecting me in a positive way. For one thing, I get nocturnal erections frequently now. I'll sometimes pop an erection just from being around my girl or talking to her on the phone, and when we are going to have sex, it just happens naturally now. I haven't taken a Viagra in almost 5 months, and am really happy about that. The return of nocturnals tells me the combo of supplements I'm taking is replacing something my body is not doing naturally anymore, and I think it's probably related to the testosterone issue. However, as long as the supps are working, I'm not going to pursue the T replacement, as it carries certain risks itself. But that is an option in the future.
I just wanted to update my case. I stopped frequenting the board so much as it just kept me in a perpetual state of anxiety and when I started to feel like it wasn't Peyronies Disease after all, I didn't want to keep thinking about Peyronies Disease, as I'm sure you can understand. I don't feel 100-percent normal yet, but I definitely feel that the supps I discovered on this board are helping my ED issues tremendously. Thank you all for your support and advice along the way.
Nemo
Good news Nemo!
I remember a teacher of mine talking about a patient I was very confused about. He said "He falls into the "I don't know what it is but it got better" category". Docs like it when that happens! So do patients.
But it sounds like you have learned a bit about your own health and the value of taking charge of it. Do you think that taking positive steps (like avoiding the boards to reduce stress) contributed to your return of improved "penile health"? (there has to be a better term than that!)
Tim
Tim, honestly, I think it was a combination of time and the supplements that made me feel better. Frankly, my erectile function started improving while I was still very uptight about everything. I started hitting the supps religiously trying to minimize any Peyronies Disease damage that might be underway, and after a few days, I started waking up at night with erections. Then, I stopped using Viagra because I realized I wasn't needing it anymore. I know with erectile performance, there's always a question of what's mental and what's physical. But seriously, I NEVER got nocturnals for the last 4-5 years. Then, suddenly, with the supps, I was getting them pretty often. It wasn't even something I was thinking about. I'd go visit my girl in her office and work, sit down and start getting an erection. That was like I used to be back in the good old days before I ever used Viagra.
After a few months went by like that, I think my anxiety gradually started to fade. So, while I see where you're going that the mental affected the physical, in my case, I really think the improvement in my erectile quality is what helped me mentally. Either way, I'm not going to keep questioning it - I'm just trying to enjoy the here and now and keep taking my cocktail of supplements!
Nemo
Nemo, thanks for your thoughtful response. The way that you laid it out makes perfect sense.
Tim
Tim, I can certainly relate to what Nemo is saying here. I have had much the same experience in this regard. My libido has simply gotten better and better, and even though I have now discontinued most of the sups I was previously taking, the enhanced libido remains intact. Although I have not taken Pentox, my suspicion is that Pentox would only serve to enhance this effect. - George
George, I do think the Pentox is a key element. My understanding is that in the days before Viagra, Pentox (or Trental) had some limited use as a treatment for ED. Unfortunately, my uro punked out on me and wouldn't even refill the prescription he gave me for Pentox one-per-day ... frankly, I think he got offended that I knew more about current treatment options than he did and decided to "revoke" the Pentox altogether. He said if I want to pursue that, I need to go see Dr. Lue.
So, sadly, I've been acquiring my Trental from an online, foreign pharmacy for the last few months. Seems to be legit as far as I can tell. Would I rather have a presciption from an American doctor - absolutely. But I'm not interested in doctor shopping just to get the prescription and run into who knows how many more closed minds in the process. For now, I'll just keep getting it any way I can.
But I do think it helps my erectile quality by improving blood flow into the penis, and I only take one per day (along with my supplements).
Nemo
Does anyone buy medicines for http://www.genericviagra.org - wonder of the purchase.
They have very cheap viagra (http://www.genericviagra.org) and many people praise it.
No clue. It has a slick looking website but a clever 15 year old computer geek can give you that. Generic Viagra means "not honoring patent law" viagra. In India, the patnet laws are interpreted differently, such that a patent is honored only if the manufacturing process is unique. By phrasing their law this way they have been able to get away (so far) with marketing generics before patnets run out in Europe or the US. Selling such drugs is a violation of patent law - I am not sure what the law says about buying them.
Tim
Rydf,
The doctors will use a pretty common tool called a protractor. It's basically a half circle with angle measurements marksing on it. It isn't that difficult to use and or estimate.
Measuring an angle is easy. Translating a curve into a degree of angle is harder.
I would start with whatever direction your penis sticks out from your body when it is erect. For the sake of discussion, let us say it sticks straight out. I would then look at what direction the end is pointing Is it facing 30 degrees down? 45 degrees down?
You may have to estimate.
More important... you do not "need" surgery if you are able to have sex. Surgery should be reserved for a penis that cannot function - everything else is worth trying to fix medically. The one exception to that rule might be a very good functioning penis with a fixed angle, that is stable for over (perhaps) 2 years - then one might consider a surgery to fix it.
rydf - if you were born this way then there is not much that will be helpful. If you developed this problem then - yes - start using the VED or traction device.
Read more here to learn.
Tim
He dude...I'm suffering from Ed issue. I want to take some medication like cialis or levitra. Should I consult with a doctor? I found some information about levitra perceptions at (link disabled) http://www.xxxxxxx-xxxxx.com/ xxxxxx_xxxxxxxxxxxx.html is this enough?
kennethgilbert:
First, let me say that we are not doctors here. You should see a qualified professional to determine that you are confirmed to have ED. Sometimes, the body adjusts itself in the sexual department by slowing down the libido for various reasons. I am saying this to let you know that you should make sure of your condition before rushing off to treat it. The ED drugs in most cases have side effects that may or may not apply to you personal situation. Only a qualified doctor should help you make that determination.
Taking drugs without knowing the full facts about them can and will cause side effects you really don't need. So, go see a doctor.
Old Man
Erectile dysfunction is one of the most well known sexual dysfunctions affecting men. The main reason for this is that it is the most common. However, there are certain other diseases like Peyronie's disease and priapism that are also common in men and they also hamper in having proper sexual intercourse. The bottom line is that one should never assume about these diseases and have medications on their own. It is imperative to consult a doctor if any abnormality is noticed in having sex, or in attaining erection. http:///www.levitraXXXX.com
Link deleted by administrator and member banned for violating strict forum rules on spamming and embedding a commercial link to a Levitra internet sales site.
Administrator
mr.gregoryrauscher, I would welcome you as a new member, but since you are banned for spamming this forum with commercial links you won't be able to read the post. ;)
This new member was clearly an Asian based spam account.
Gee Hawk - that's kinda harsh. If I lived in Asia and ate SPAM all day, I'd probably have ED too!
Tim
Hi,
I am new to this forum, but have been a regular reader. I am 25 years old and think I have peyronie's/fibrosis. I have two cord like rings on my shaft which are not hard and cant be felt in flaccid state, apart from this I have some guitar like strings.The Doppler which I underwent didnt show peyronie's/fibrosis but venous leak( which I believe could be a factor as cant mainatiain erection and to achieve one is also hardwork).I am Indian by origin and had this diagnosis done in March this year in India, currently have moved to US for short time on Work. Had been to various Urologist but none had a soultion, though one offered penile ligtation surgery. I have been suffering for last 2 years and wondering why at such a young age it has happened to me. I am currently taking Pentox+L-Argnine+Acetly carrtnine+Tribulus all once a day for past one month. I can't see any difference to my misery. My life is totally ruined would be an understatement. I will appreciate any kind of help on this matter as I am slowly and slowly dying within..
Cursed for life!!
PS: Forgot to mention I have slight curvature on left side both when flaccid as well as erect
Quote from: young25 on September 24, 2008, 11:30:44 PM
Hi,
I am new to this forum, but have been a regular reader. I am 25 years old and think I have peyronie's/fibrosis. I have two cord like rings on my shaft which are not hard and cant be felt in flaccid state, apart from this I have some guitar like strings.The Doppler which I underwent didnt show peyronie's/fibrosis but venous leak( which I believe could be a factor as cant mainatiain erection and to achieve one is also hardwork).
Maybe viagra could be of use to you to help you gain erections. Use of the VED could prove useful too. Have you tried either of these?
Dear Young25,
The VED may not be what you had in mind when you lay in bed as a teenager fantasizing about your future sex life (it sure was not my fantasy), but it may in fact help you to develop more confidence regarding your ability to marry, have sex and kids etc. It also - plain and simple - works.
Viagra or Cialis on a daily basis may also help you. Furthermore, you should get a complete workup including testosterone levels.
Tim
Tim, I saw on another thread that you were using C every day, which I also see is part of their new marketing campaign, that low dose every day might be just the ticket.
I have had this enduring fear that using V,C or L frequently will lead to a situation where it becomes less effective over time, or even ineffective. I could never find clear cut research either way on this, as the only studies I saw spanned 2 years, and these drugs have actually been out for 10 now.
For instance, in my case, at 37, I'm trying very hard to avoid using these drugs anymore (I did use them for a while) because if I start, I'm looking at 30 years of using them. That has always worried me.
As a doctor, and a daily user, what are your thoughts on this?
Nemo
I am not worried about building a tolerance. When someone is getting worse, and something else makes it better, it is hard to tell the difference between "tolerance" (ie needing more drug) and "worsening" (ie the drug no longer works because the problem it is treating is getting worse).
So I started daily Cialis to increase NO supply, although better erections is a nice side effect.
Tim
Thanks everyone for the suggestions,
Newguy,
I hav not tried viagra, but have tried cialis which works ok, not something great but manageable...
I think my venous leakage is more related to smooth muscles contration which becoz of some kind of peyronie's is not helping me to expand and dosnt allow venous pathway to clsoe. I had a nodule since when I was around 21, it didnt bother me much back then neither did it affect my erections, its just last year that things started going downhill. I guess the shot for penile doppler just aggravated the problem and left me with another nodule... To add to the misery the doctor gave me a antidote shot also which I think worsened the problem as after that I started expericing hard flaccid penis. I am right now on different supplements and as suggested will be adding Cialis to my schedule just to keep my erectile tissue healthy.. VED I have yet not tried, but m seriously considering it....
I wanted to ask whether antidote shots(to counter the effects ofPapervine) are harmful and has anybody experienced the same kind of after effects. Also can the damage caused by the shot reversed?
Quote from: HealthDayCould Chinese Herb Be a Natural Viagra? (http://www.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=619804)
FRIDAY, Oct. 3 (HealthDay News) -- A Chinese herbal remedy known as "horny goat weed" may indeed live up to its name as a natural version of Viagra.
Italian researchers report that laboratory studies show that the compound has the potential to treat erectile dysfunction, and possibly with fewer side effects than its pharmaceutical cousin.
- George
you need a very potent HGW extract though. 10% and even 20% won't cut it. I think there is a 50% extract somewhere out there.
I disagree Hitman. You can make up for a lack of potency by taking more. I would take between 10-20 HGW (with 500 mg per two capsules) to get an effect equivalent to 50 mg of Viagra.
I did not suffer any side effects, and the effect was not as obvious (erection-wise) as Viagra, but it was still a good effect. I finally settled on Cialis as a better alternative as it did not cause the side effects of Viagra and was easier (and ultimately cheaper) to take.
Tim
Quote from: young25 on October 03, 2008, 07:59:19 PM
I guess the shot for penile doppler just aggravated the problem and left me with another nodule... To add to the misery the doctor gave me a antidote shot also which I think worsened the problem as after that I started expericing hard flaccid penis.
Does anyone have an opinion on this as a general risk for Pey sufferers? I have heard many claim their problem was made worse by regular injections for ED or by Verapamil injections, but this is the first I've heard about the one-time injection for the doppler. I had always thought of this shot as being relatively low risk.
jackisback
In my case shots for ED made things worse and caused corporal fibrosis.
My problems started with low testesterone and in 1995 peyronies with penile shortening, venous leakage and corporal fibrosis from ED shots.
I had no reaction to the shot for the Doppler, doctor gave me a pamphlet on injection therapy that said it was not FDA approved and then offered trimix. I started trimix, then PGE1 (Edex). I never had an erection from shots even though I tried for about a year upping the dosage of trimix to the max.
My advice if you have peyronies do not use shots for ED. I am in the % that made things worse.
I have had good results with the VED using Old Man's advice and am now waiting until 10/30 for an implant.
Also find an Male Sexual Function Specialist. Most general practice urologist are not specialist in this area and only do a few a month. You want a doctor that treats at least 100 a year.
Jackp
did u get treated for low test jack?
Hitman
Yes I have been on TRT for years. Urologist did not do a good job of keeping my level up they only wanted to give me shots of 300mg every three weeks. That was not enough and my blood levels always reported low.
Last October I was talking to my Primary Care Physic an (PCP) about my problem of not getting my T levels up. He took a blood sample and sure enough my level after 3 weeks was 120 with a range of 248-850. He started me on 300mg every 10 days and it helped.
Last may my blood test was 426 with a range of 250-1100 he wanted my level higher and so did I. I know get 400mg every 10 days and what a difference it has made. I do not think I would have had the strength to survive the 9-10 day stay in the hospital last July with low T levels.
TRT is not a treatment for ED. You may get a temporary boost but it will not last (normal).
When you get a blood test for T always request a copy of the results. If you are not in the upper 20-30% range and the doctor will not boost your shots, find another doctor.
Jackp
so has it improved your libido? or has it improved any other aspects?
I'm going for an MRI scan next week because my over the range prolactin levels.
Note to all:
If you are using any ED drug, please read the patient pamphlet that comes with the RX or OTC type. There are side effects that in some cases list that if the user has Peyronies Disease that the drug should not be taken.
I know that is especially true of the urethral injection called MUSE. It has a strict prohibition of using MUSE if Peyronies Disease is present. My uro RXd MUSE for me and it did not work our at all. The side effects which includes burning of the penis, were so severe that no one had to tell me to stop using the stuff.
This is just how ED drugs affected me and due to the cautions I was advised to be extremely careful to read the literature that comes with an RX.
I know that some on the forum are using Viagra in a low dose to enhance the effects of better blood flow, so be careful to observe your condition for any side effects that are detrimental to Peyronies Disease.
Old Man
hitman
TRT has a lot of benefits including increased libido, weight control, loss of stomach fat, better muscel mass and the mental effects are great.
In my case it did not help ED, from the way I understand it TRT will not effect ED except when you first start and that soon fades and is normal.
Lots of luck with your MRI. Keep us posted.
Old Man
I agree 100% about caution using ED drugs. I was on Viagra within a week after it was available. Was little to no help. The only caution my then uro said was watch for erections lasting over 4 hours (I Wish).
The only other caution is shots for ED. PGE1 (Edex) and trimix will cause corporal fibrosis and make matters worse. This is one thing that caused the doctor to puncture my urethra 10/07 during implant surgery. I am 100% against shots in the penis for ED. I tried it with little to no effect and only made matters worse.
Jackp
Jackp,
TRT does not wear off, but it does not help everyone either. Interestingly, there are some who do not get better on just one (Viagra or TRT) but do get better on both.
Tim
interesting Tim. is there any reason why?
Jack, a couple things I've discovered from exhaustive reading about TRT is that: a) many doctors won't touch it with a ten foot pole, and b) some of the doctors who will don't really know what they're doing. For instance, many docs who will try TRT just inject T or prescribe the gel or patch. Often, exactly as you desribe, it boosts libido for a couple months, then you crash. The reason for this is that often, the doctor doesn't even test for estradiol (E2) (part of the estrogen family, which men have too). The balance between E2 and T is as important as the Total T. In fact, you could have high T, but if your E2 is high as well, you going to have all sorts of problems, including ED. You can't just look at T.
What's key to understand here is that if you start taking T, your testicles will often stop producing T on their own and even shrink ... so yes, you get an initial boost, then the testicles shut down and you start to drop T level. If your body is also converting T to estadiol (through the aromataze enzyme), your doubly screwed. Many hormone specialists are prescribing HCG injections to actually keep the testicles active and producing during TRT. They also often prescibe anti-estrogens like Arimidex to keep estradiol down so T can rise to where it needs to be and stay there, and not compete with E2.
So, I think it's incorrect to say that it's normal for libido to diminish after a little while on TRT. While this may happen often, I think it's because of a lack of awareness on the part of the doctor about the delicate balance of hormones ... simply slapping on or injecting T is not the answer.
If TRT is done right, monitoring estradiol and all the other aspects to keep things in balance, libido should remain strong. Bottom line, in my humble opinion, is look at your test results. If your doctor is not testing for estradiol, you should probably seek out someone with more expertice in TRT, because you're probably not getting the full benifit.
Nemo
Nemo
Maybe I was not clear TRT will not cure ED, You may get a temporary boost with ED but it will not last. Libido will stay as long as you properly manage TRT.
E2 is very important. I have mine checked everytime my doctor does blood work. Last time it was 24 and within the target range of 20-30.
I have been on TRT over 10 years, gels, patches, shots, and have noticed very little shrinkage of the testicles and check them often.
Again TRT is not a treatment for ED. The benefits are much more important than that.
Tim
I have tried everything out there for ED and some things that are not legal. No combination works for me. I started out with low T, peyronies w/penile shortening, venous leakage and corporal fibrosis.
Because of the strength TRT gives I was able to come through back surgery 1/08 and 9-10 days in the hospital (7/27/08) where the doctors messed up, collapsed my left lung and put me heart into A-Fib.
My regular doctor does a much better job of monitoring my T and checking my E2 that any of the 3 urologist I have been to. I would have to fight with uro's to get E2 checked and some refused. Uro's would only give me shots every 3 weeks and PCP gives them to me every 10 days. Getting shots every 10 days keeps me from crashing like I did on every 3 weeks.
I would like to take a moment and tell Old Man how much I appreciate his advice and knowledge. I was using the VED all wrong. By following his advice of exercise I have gained about 1/2inch lost to peyronies in 1995. Without his advice I would not be able to have sex.
Yes I hate constriction rings! They cut off a lot of feelings because of the bad venous leakage I have to use the real tight ones (Osborn D). On the bright side I can still have sex with my wife of 40 years. One of the major reasons I am going for a penile implant is the @#$% constriction rings.
Good Luck every one. Peyronies and the effects on the penis can be mentally challenging but NEVER-EVER, NEVER-EVER, NEVER EVER give up or stop trying.
Jackp
Quote from: alcohen on October 01, 2008, 10:27:56 AM
I wrote about that I am constantly having wet dreams (erections and ejaculating during my dreams).
Alcohen, I am sure you are awoken by your wet dreams at the point of orgasm. So, then you do get erections when you have wet dreams? This would clearly indicate that nothing blocks the blood flow to your penis and that your penile tissue is fully capable of an erection. This pretty much means the lack of erection at other times has to be limited to either psychological issues or to possible nerve issues that transmit signals to the penile arteries that make the walls relax (dilate) causing in increase in blood flow into the penis. At least some sleeping erections are are strongly thought to use different nerve pathways that stimulated erections. The question is whether an erection from an erotic dream is truly a sleeping or nocturnal erection. It could be a sexually stimulated erection caused by psychological stimulation ???
Hawk, The big issue here in my mind is the perceived lack of feeling. That IS a problem and it is NOT likely to be psychological. Certainly the rest of his problem IS psychological. BUT, it is easy to understand his having this problem in the light of loss of sensation. I really think the first thing he needs to get checked out is WHY is there this loss of sensation. This is NOT typical of Peyronies and, in fact, not typical at ALL, rather extremely rare. He needs to find a referral to some expert in this field, probably in the realm of sexual medicine. - George
Just wondering,
My T is around 525 (in a range of 300-1100, not sure about the values will check in the evening and confirm) which according to my URO falls in the normal range... just wondering if this level of T is normal for 25 yr old... I think after reading the discussions over here I think it falls in range which is debatable... have never thought about my T levels before but m seriously considering to dig more into it.. nd some more pointers could be I nearly dont have any hair on my chest... :-\
George, I tend to agree. In fact that was my point as well. If he can get erections while dreaming, that narrows down the cause to either nerve issues or psychological. Loss of sensation Could be either, but sounds more like nerve issues. Without a through work-up (not just by a urologist) it is impossible to know.
It runs the gambit from possible psychological issues to impinged spinal nerve issues that block his erections and triggered fibrosis.
Anyone that ever had a pinched sciatic nerve knows of the intense pain and total numbness that can be present in different areas of the leg. These areas do seem somewhat static however and do not come or go. They also are not affected by touching the leg since the pain does not originate at the point where it is felt.
The entire thing is a mystery that needs relentless searching until a satisfactory answer is found.
Jack, I understan TRT didn't solve your ED issues, but I think we have to be careful to make a categorical statement like it won't solve ED problems in anyone. It sounds like you have a few issues going on: Peyronies Disease, venous leakage, scarring, etc.
If a guy's only issue causing ED was low T, and a specialist who knows what he/she is doing appropriately treats this, I see no reason why ED wouldn't resolve. If you start out at 200 for instance and a doc gets you up to 800 and keeps you there, keeping a firm control on E2 and the variety of other hormone related factors, it doesn't make sense that you would see an improvement in ED then it would just quit. I suspect in your case, there's much more to it than just the T, would you not agree?
Not trying to argue with you, I just know that each of our cases is complicated by a variety of factors and what may not work for one may, in fact, work for someone else. It'd be like if I didn't have any luck with the VED and said it doesn't work for Peyronies Disease. Clearly, for some it does.
nemo
jackp:
If you have to use the small sized D ring, how about trying two of the larger rings that produce less pressure. Sometimes the larger two combination works best.
Currently, when going for an erection for sex, I use the pink and beige large rings. Both have been used for a while and have a relaxed "fit'' which works better than using the smallest D ring. You would need to experiment with various combinations to get one that works best for you.
Try it and let us know how it works for you.
Old Man
Nemo
I agree that just a total T level is not enough to to diagnose low T. You should also have;
Testesterone, Free
Testesterone, Bioavailable
SHBG
E2
The trouble most doctors only test for Testerone, Free should be:
Testosterone, free, bio and total. LC/MS/MS
Testerstone, Total
I assumed for years that my T levels were the reason for ED, The three (3) urologist I went to before talking to my primary care doctor only tested total testosterone and did not do all the test. All the test confirm my ED can not be helped by T alone.
If TRT helps you be grateful in most it will not. If TRT only helps for a few days or weeks look for other problems. It took me years to get the notion of getting my T levels up would help the ED, It did not.
Old Man
I am only 23 days pre op. Thanks for the advice I have an old D ring I will try again.
Jackp
But Jack, that's exactly what I'm talking about ... you say "If TRT only helps for a few days or weeks look for other problems." I suspect that if you got your hormones right and still had ED troubles, it's the "other problems" at work, not a lack of efficacy on the part of TRT. You mentioned you have veinous leakage, for example. I wouldn't expect TRT to solve an issue like that.
Again, I'm not trying to convince you TRT is the be all end all ... I'm just saying we shouldn't paint with as broad a brush as saying it's not an effective treatment for ED. If testosterone is the actual problem, then testosterone is the solution. If there are other problems at play, then that's another matter entirely.
My opinion only, of course. I see a TRT doctor in a couple weeks for my initial visit.
nemo
Nemo
Be sure the TRT doctor checks all the items I listed in my previous post. Total T does not tell the whole story you need the broad picture.
Good Luck, I hope TRT solves your problems.
Jackp
Will do, Jack. I'm seeing Dr. Romeo Mariano in Monterey, CA. He's supposed to be one of the top three or four male hormone docs in the country according to everything I've read online. He ordered a lab workup that required me to give 12 vials of blood and a 24 hour urine test. Sounds like he's very thorough, so I'm hoping for the best!
nemo
I'm wondering if it is normal to have ED from the very beginning of peyronies disease. ??? I found in some publications that usually ED is a problem of the later phase. However, I observe that my glans is not as hard as it was before when my penis is erected. My Peyronies Disease started about three months ago...
didi20031:
No two persons have the same symptoms of ED. Each and every case is totally different from each other. Items that I might have would not necessarily be the same as what you experience, etc. Probably the reason that your glans does not fill out as hard as before Peyronies Disease is because the Peyronies Disease symptoms may or may not block the blood flow to the head portion of the shaft. This has been a symptom of ED along with Peyronies Disease in many cases that have been documented on this and other forums.
VED therapy is one way that you can get more blood flow into that portion of your penis. I would not suggest hand forcing blood into the head portion as you can cause further damage to the erectile tissue by using too much force. Mild vacuum pressure with a VED can and will enhance erections that will help with the Peyronies Disease, etc.
Old Man
Hi,
I just stumbled across this website, anybody has ever heard or has any information about this company? ???
http://www.xcell-center.com/treatments/diseases-treated/erectile-dysfunction.aspx
Thanks
[Link deleted by moderator]Erectile dysfunction[/url] is related to the blood pressure. Latest research conducted had put the light on the new topic of relation of erectile dysfunction with the high blood pressure. Erectile dysfunction is defined as the condition in which men are not able to get the erection or sustain the erection for the longer period of time. Erectile dysfunction was previously reported to be linked to the diabetes, heart attacks, and obesity. But, the latest study has declared that it is linked to high blood pressure also. So it is an alarming situation for all the men to keep their blood pressure in control otherwise they may fail in the bed because of erectile dysfunction.
[Link deleted by moderator]
Hyperlinks deleted by moderator. See rule #9, forum posting rules
"Spamming the forum with promotions, links, or trolling for membership will not be allowed."
I do note that some folks are putting SPAM links in their signature files, which other moderators cannot delete.
Tim
I have got the problem that my glans penis does not get hard any more when I have got an erection due to my plaque which is located very close to the glans (semicircular on the right side). The rest of the penis is still able to become very hard (even if it is more difficult than before the onset of peyronies). I am wondering if I have got the chance to get rid of this problem. ??? Has anybody here had a similar problem and experienced improvement? Is VED likely to help? I have read that surgery of peronies plaques is not likely to improve the situation when ED is present. Any comments on this?
Best wishes!
didi,
If I understand correctly, you can achieve an erection, but the glans doesn't get hard because of the plaque. If this is true, and that your penis responds to and is able to get hard, then it seems it is the plaque that is interferring with the glans getting hard.
Surgery to remove the plaque may be an option for you in this case.
In cases of total ED, or the inability to achieve any erection whatsoever.... Surgery can still be an option to remove the plaque but it doesn't solve the ED problem. In this case you would additionally require an implant of some sort in order to "mechanically" be able to achieve an erection.
Thank you for your reply! My peronies started four months ago, so it is much too early for surgery. I still hope to be able to avoid surgery since I don't have any bent but only a slight indentation.
didi20031:
You are wise not to consider surgery this early on in your bout with Peyronies Disease. You asked if the VED therapy could possibly help with the plaque. The answer is yes and no, and is explained this way. The VED therapy has been attributed to about a 90% or so success rate depending on the severity of the Peyronies Disease and other physical factors.
Yes, it can help if the VED therapy is started early on before the plaque calcifies and hardens to a point of "no return" so to speak. Your plaque being so far out onto the shaft near the head portion of the penis does present a different approach to VED therapy. It requires much patience and working with the proper VED therapy. The small cylinder in the three cylinder model VEDs would give you the best results from its use.
Now no, it won't work if the VED is not started early on in the development of the plaque and not after it hardens/calcifies. VED therapy then might would help in some way with this, but there is little evidence we have seen that would correct the "blockage" of blood flow past the plaque. This is not to say that VED therapy won't work, but that it might not in every case.
Bottom line IMHO, I would exhaust all efforts with the 26 week VED protocol and oral therapy before considering surgery. As you said, it is too early in your case to even consider surgery. Suggest you take a good look at the history of VED usage in the topic on the Child Boards section to get a better picture of what has been done with VED therapy.
If there is anything that we can do to help, just let us know.
Old Man
Thank you for your post Old Man!
didi20031:
No problem, glad to help in any way. Keep us posted on your progress. Let us know if there is ever anything that we can do for you with the horrible mess.
Old Man
I developed Peyronie's Disease around 6 years ago. In the first year of the disease, sex was still a part of my life. But then the curvature of my penis worsened and I had the first of two surgeries. I was very disappointed with the results. First by the size and shape, and secondly that all desire for sex was gone. A year and a half later, I had a second operation to implant a prosthetic device. Unfortunately, my results were just as dismal the second time around. I have once achieved a climax through a wet dream, but it is the only time in the last five years that I have done so. I have had no sexual activity, even with just myself, for the last five years.
Are there others with dysfunction this bad, and how do you go about dating with one's circumstances so drastically different since this disease basically ruined my sexual organ; along with my drive and libido.
JT,
Welcome to the forum.
I will let others address some of your questions but I will volunteer that your libido and sex drive were not directly decreased by surgery. Your view of yourself, (self image) may have been devastated and reduced your drive. You may also have other issues like testosterone levels but IMHO it is not a result of a physical surgical injury.
As a fellow peyronies sufferer I feel your pain. I lost about 25% of my length to this $%^& thing.
I had my implant surgery 10/23 and had the AMS LGX implant. It expends in length and girth. I went from 5.5 inches before peyronies to about 4.25. At pre op activation they measured and I was 4.25 inches. I had gained to 4.75 with the VED exercise before surgery. The doctor said I would gain the length back in about 3 months to a year but mostly the first 3 months. At 6 weeks post activation I can tell my "little guy" is getting bigger.
Sounds like you, like me, also have low testosterone. Low T will affect your sex drive. You need all the following blood test.
1. Testosterone, Total
2. Testosterone, Free
3. Testosterone, Bioavailable
4. SHBG
5. Albumin, Serum
6. Estardoil (E2) Ultrasensitive
A lot of doctors only want to test total T. With that you will not get an accurate picture of your T levels. The key is Testosterone, Bioavalable. Even if your total goes over range the bioavailable should be at approximately 65-75% of the lab range. Estradoil is best at about 20 but not over 25. High or low E2 will also kill erections and sex drive.
Find a partner that is interested in you not just your penis. My wife has never complained, well she did about the larger girth after the activation but that worked out well, I have never had this much girth. 99% of women are more interested in girth than length.
I know this will get old to some frequent readers but here goes. In my early 20's there was three of us guys that ran around together. Billy, Jr. and myself. Jr's claim to fame was this 9" penis, I was about 5.5' and Billy was just over 3". You know who had the most girls? Billy. Jr. could not understand that girls liked pleasure and not pain.
You might also be helped by a sex therapist.
Hope this helps, I have been there but never-ever/never-ever/never-ever gave up.
Jackp
Thank you for your input. I believe I will discuss with my doctor the testosterone labs that you suggested. Also, the idea of a sex therapist is worth some thought; and you're right, giving up has certainly not been the answer.
I have a very strange question here?
Controlled T boosters used by body-builders, helps gain muscle mass which means it helps somewhat with structuring the muscle in the right way. Similarly will it not help the penile smooth muscles to realign somewhat? thr should be some percieved beneift in venous leak or maybe peyronies also?? I knw excessive T can be harmful but controlled T just for 1 or 2 months just to get enuf for the penile muscles to regenerate? I maybe completly wrong here with my logic, but I still think it should work the same way as it works with other muscles of human body. Maybe T shot with VED usage(for excercising the muscles) produce results somewhat similar results like other muscles??
would really like to hear views of others abt the same?
Testosterone boosters are hype and most are not demonstrated to boost testosterone at all.
Unless you are low in testosterone, actually boosting T levels could have serious health risks including fueling prostate cancer.
Finally, T levels are advocated for bodybuilders to signal the body to put on muscle mass to muscle fibers exposed to resistance. There is NO indication it realigns existing muscle fibers much less reduces scar tissues. If you have a scar on your body from accident or surgery, does increased T levels make it go away? Why would it make scars on your tunica go away?
T levels MAY increase erections. Increased erections may increase blood flow and oxygen and even provide some stretching, which could help treat Peyronies Disease. All of these things can however be supplied by things like Pentox, L-arginine, Viagra, VED's, and traction, much better than "T" levels could supply them.
PS: Since this has nothing to do with ED I will move these posts.
Quote from: young25 on February 17, 2009, 11:43:18 AM
I have a very strange question here?
Controlled T boosters used by body-builders, helps gain muscle mass which means it helps somewhat with structuring the muscle in the right way. Similarly will it not help the penile smooth muscles to realign somewhat? thr should be some percieved beneift in venous leak or maybe peyronies also??
In a word NO. I have been on TRT for years before venous leakage, in my opinion venous leakage gets progressively worse, mine did.
TRT is not a treatment for ED. You will get a temporary boost but it will not last. TRT has many benefits if yours is low but not treatment for ED, been there done that.
I was on TRT long before VED exercise. VED exercise is very helpful for penile health but will not regenerate penile tissue, if it would I would not have had to have an implant.
Jackp
I got hold of this article which says T supplement restored venous leak. Its says T levels arond 300 as average before treatment
http://www.andrologyjournal.org/cgi/rapidpdf/jandrol.108.005264v1.pdf
This study seems flawed to me. It is riddled with words like suspected venous leakage, probably, possible etc. And that was just the first 4 pages.
In 2005 I was offered to become part of the Nebico trial. I was not in the study because of a previous history of sleep apnea, cured by surgery.
After the study was over I asked the doctor how it came out. He said that the results were not as expected and failed phase 3 trials. As a result it was not approved by the FDA.
After not being allowed in the study I contacted some men in Europe that had used Nebico and they also agreed that it did not meet expectations.
In my case I have been getting 400mg of testosterone(im) every 10 days for years. If it would help or cure ED, venous leakage, corporal fibrosis and/or peyronies I would have the penis everyone would envy.
I am very skeptical of this and would not put any faith in it.
Jackp
I do believe however that low T is among signs of peyronies disease although it might be a bit of a stretch. Jackp mentioned something about penile tissue and that has gotten me into thinking that I might ditch the VED after the 6 months protocol.
Hitman
I hope I did not give the impression you should stop VED exercise. IMHO you should keep it up. I was off the exercise for a couple of weeks while in the hospital last August and I looked and felt like I had lost all I had gained and more. When I resumed the VED exercise within a week I was back.
My doctor even recommended I keep up the VED exercise until the day before my penile implant for a better outcome.
The VED and the proper exercise was a life saver for me. Thanks to Old Man.
Jackp
Quote from: Nemo on January 20, 2008, 09:07:12 PM
[...] However, about two or three months in, the Viagra seemed to be faltering. [...]
Hi guys!
I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I can assure you Viagra doesn't just stop working.
This is a very common concern among Viagra users, but there are studies that show that its efficacy doesn't wear off with time.
What
seems to be happening here - I repeat, I haven't read the whole thread yet - is just another case of sexual performance anxiety. The problem is in your head, not in the drugs.
If this is the case,
maybe Viagra is not the best solution. PDE-5 inhibitors are excellent and very effective, but they are not anxiety drugs. If you are frightened or too anxious (fight or flight response), the rush of adrenaline in your body blocks peripheral circulation and prevents penile erection. You could swallow a whole bucket of Viagra pills and it would have no effect whatsoever.
What you need is something that will inhibit the negative effects of anxiety and an alpha blocker might be helpful. Oral phentolamine, an alpha blocker, has been used in the treatment of impotence for many years. You can read all about the efficacy and safety of phentolamine (brand names Vasomax, Vigamed, Z-Max) here:
http://www.nature.com/ijir/journal/v14/n4/full/3900885a.html
Phentolamine is not as popular as sildenafil and, as far as I know, it's not being sold in Europe or in the US - and that's a terrible shame. I know it is being sold in Brazil under the brand name Vigamed and you can order it on the Internet.
I have already tried Vigamed with excellent results, but it's still too early to call it a complete success. But I believe it is an underrated drug and it could be perfect for cases of psychogenic impotence.
Quote from: Liam on June 09, 2006, 09:52:13 AM
Here is another link to an article about new drugs for ED including the gene therapy which will last up to 6 months :) :).
[...]
Gene therapy is the future of ED treatment. I have great faith in this new therapy, let's hope the FDA won't screw things up.
Here's the official website of the company Ion Channel Innovations, it's a great read:
http://www.ionchannelinnovations.com/
Nemo,
Besides complaining about your limp penis to group members, have you contacted the medical community to get yourself involved in theTGF beta therapy going on in other areas of fibrosis. I suggest for every post you make here you contact two medical groups dealing with TGF beta therapy.
I sympathise with you Nemo, but if you ain't networking with the medical community you don't have much right to complain about your limp member.
Quote from: Nemo on January 20, 2008, 11:20:53 PM
Tim and Old Man, you guys are absolutely right, and I appreciate your compassion and thoughtfulness. In fact, I have become totally preoccupied with my erectile performance since I've been in this relationship. You'll be glad to know that she and I have a very open and loving relationship and we talk openly about Peyronie's, ED, Viagra and everything else. I knew I couldn't hide anything from her for long, so we talk about it quite openly and she could not be more supportive. I am blessed to have her.
I guess basically I was looking for some reassurance, which you've given me. I did push my body too hard yesterday and paid a price for it. But honestly guys, I do feel that the Viagra is not working in me with the same efficacy as it did at first. I am still trying to get to the bottom of whether I warrant testosterone replacement (as I don't get nocturnal, spontaneous or morning erections any more), but am also hoping to determine if there might be some other reason my body seemed to tolerate Viagra awfully quickly. (I've never heard of it stopping working on someone that fast).
Again, I appreciate you guys' words of counsel. The black dog of depression has gripped me over this, as I fear a future where I can't have the kind of sex she and I are used to. But honestly, I do feel that the lack of nocturnals, etc., is my body telling me something is wrong ... I just didn't care to find out until my secret weapon (the viagra) started faultering. When that started happening, yes, I became obsessed. I feel like I'm fighting for my sexual health if not my sanity.
Thanks again,
Nemo
Um ... okay ... McBaba, let me introduce myself, I'm Nemo ... who in the hell do you think you are?
Do you realize that the post you're quoting of mine is nearly a year and a half old? But beyond that, who do you think you are waltzing in here with that condescending and preachy attitude? Keep it up and I predict your tenure here will be brief and nasty.
For your information, I pursued all sorts of medical counsel since that post was made and currently enjoy the use of my "limp member" (as you put it) on a frequent and wholly rewarding basis.
If you have information to share regarding some sort of research you imply you know something about, by all means, share. However, you'll find guys on this forum completely intollerant of arrogance.
In other words, check yourself, partner.
Nemo
Metropolis, that's an interesting website. I wonder why they haven't updated any news since 2007. It seems they had regular updates until the beginning of 2008. That sounds promising - I wonder if the more relaxed the smooth muscle is, the more beneficial drugs like Pentox and other supplements can be on the peyronie's plaque.
metropolis,
Phentolamine comes with a lot of side effects because it is not specific to the blood vessels of the penis. I was not aware that it had any good effect on anxiety.
Interestingly, beta blockers which can block adrenaline's effects can lead to a great reduction in feelings of anxiety. But those drugs have also been associated with the development of Peyronie's Disease!
Tim
With a strict order of HGW and various other supplements how easy is it to return to a normal sex drive and ability? What are those supplements?
is it normal for a 18 year old with peyronies to not be able to get a normal erection? i get them in my sleep but to get a firm errection normally i have to really try. meaning i have to jerk it off and even when im jerking it off its not a full erection. is this a symptom of a urethral stricture by any chance? i also am dealing with pre mature ejaculation. do you think this is due to me only masterbating once a week or two? ughhh im so stressed out and i just have to keep waiting untill my insurance comes in so i can see another uro. its torture i tells you.
despise: The stress likely contributes to the lack of firm erections, though of course ED can sometimes accompany peyronie's, so it could be a factor too. I would suggest that it's certainly a good idea to be gaining full erections one way or another. Whether that method is VED, Viagra etc it gets oxygen through to the tissue and probably inhibits worsening of the condition.
Quote from: despise on April 01, 2009, 10:13:25 PM
is it normal for a 18 year old with peyronies to not be able to get a normal erection? i get them in my sleep but to get a firm errection normally i have to really try. meaning i have to jerk it off and even when im jerking it off its not a full erection. is this a symptom of a urethral stricture by any chance? i also am dealing with pre mature ejaculation. do you think this is due to me only masterbating once a week or two? ughhh im so stressed out and i just have to keep waiting untill my insurance comes in so i can see another uro. its torture i tells you.
For starters, I'm 19. I may possibly have Peyronies Disease as well. I've been to a Uro and spoke about such symptoms.
I know it may be hard to believe and accept, but trust me, if you can get firm, good erections in your sleep, then that means that there is nothing physically wrong with you. As in, there is nothing physical hindering your ability to have erections. You might have something like Peyronies Disease which may be causing your erections to bend, but there is a good chance your ED is all mental.
Think of it this way. When you saw a pretty girl, a nice piece of tail, or just straight up thinking about sex, what did you think about? Did you think about getting an erection? No. It is much like your breathing. Think about remembering to breath. It's a bit more difficult now that you think about it, isn't it? The erections are the same. It just happened while you thought of what was arousing you. What is different now is you are worried that you are (no pun intended) scarred for life and won't ever preform sexually the same. This, along with pain, might be mentally causing you to not get erections like you used to. Fear not. There are things that can help. Stress is
bad for this problem.
Stop focusing so much on your member. The more you do so, the more you will continue to have ED and the more you will worry. It's a vicious cycle. I have been going through it for the past two months and I can finally safely say that I have had major improvements since removing all of my focus off of my penis. I know how you feel right now. The world is not over. I don't mean to be harsh about anything, but it's true. Changing your focus also helps you realize what actually hurts and what doesn't. It did for me. Ease up a bit, take things with a grain of sand. Don't underestimate the human body.
k i completely understand. the problem is that its not just in my head. i really really wish it was but i damaged my penis one night and ever since its been really screwed up. i know you probably don't believe me right? sadly i was really sick in the head and well i pushed my penis beyond its limits. but i do agree on the focusing on my penis. i can't help myself right now so why stress about it. its just a big bummer but i only have myself to blame. anyways worst comes to worst theres more to life then just sex. its just pretty damn depressing when you think about it but ive always been somewhat of a adrenaline junky so ill go full out! haha get myself a dirt bike and live it up. i basically won't be satisfied untill i have tests done. its hard to accept all this is just peyronies. lol "just peyronies" i say that because i think of peyronies as bending the penis not crippling it.
Richb,
Great post. You sound like a very level headed and mature 19 year old.
QuoteStop focusing so much on your member. The more you do so, the more you will continue to have ED and the more you will worry. It's a vicious cycle. I have been going through it for the past two months and I can finally safely say that I have had major improvements since removing all of my focus off of my penis. I know how you feel right now. The world is not over. I don't mean to be harsh about anything, but it's true. Changing your focus also helps you realize what actually hurts and what doesn't. It did for me. Ease up a bit, take things with a grain of sand. Don't underestimate the human body.
Despise,
I think the point Richb is making is thay you implied that you are getting normal firm erections at night, but not so during the day. Maybe this isn't the case but your last post sort of reads that way. And I would have to agree that if they are firm and regular at night, then should be able to do so during the day.
Hi, i,m Vango, a new member as of thursday 4-2-09. I was diagnosed with peyronies on tuesday, although the symptoms started about 6 months ago. Needless to say i am as freaked out & devastated as i have ever been !
So much confusion right now i don't know where to begin. I do know that i need to talk to other guys my age, 54 give or take 5 years, whom have just contracted this dreaded disease. This is because right now it's a real emotional & psychological mess for me to deal with alone. I'm single, bisexual, and don't know where to turn for help & support.
The info. given here from some of the long term members is truly remarkable, informative, knowledgeable, and very supportive and i am truly grateful for that ! I'm listing a few questions below that immediately came to mind following my diagnoses. Any feed back is greatly appreciated.
Is it a good thing, ei: helpful or harmful, to get an erection ?
Is regular masturbation encouraged or discouraged in regards to healing ?
Are there support groups in the major cities throughout the north east?
How does one go about finding a mate when he has a deformed penis ?
Sincerely,
Vango
Vangeo
I was about your age when first diagnosed with peyronies in 1995.
To answer your questions.
Keep the erections up. Go to the VED thread and listen to Old Man. Proper VED therapy will help. It did for me, and helped gain back lost size after almost 12 years.
Masturbation is not a problem. Just do not get over vigorous.
I am in the south east so I do not know of any peyronies support group.
In finding a mate, if all that matters is your penis you are looking at the wrong person.
Let me say single, bisexual, straight makes no difference. We are all in the same boat so to speak.
Did the doctor prescribe any meds, VED etc? Today Pentox is the med of choice but back when mine started my doctor put me on 400IU of vitamin E 3 times a day and potaba. Some here still take the vitamin E.
If you are in a relationship that can be a big help. My wife told me "Jack, I did not marry you for your penis." Remember there are many ways to have sex.
Again, I recommend you go to the VED thread and seriously consider the therapy posted there.
Good Luck, Welcome any way we can help just ask.
Jackp
Hi friend
At present ED is a common issue. I have also suffered. My doctor prescribed me for [link deleted per forum rules] Levitra. I tried it and totally satisfied. If you want to get Levitra then visit: link deleted per forum rules.
USER BANNED FOR SPAM
Hawk, Administrator
Hi friend
Levitra is medicine for especially for ED cure. It's much better in compare of other medicine. Its main advantage is that without any fear the person can use this drug with other medicine. Anyone can order online Levitra also.
USER BANNED FOR SPAM
Hawk, Administrator
Levitra may work better for some and not others.
IMHO Pills for ED are not a cure but only helpful in some people. None of the pills worked for me. Also guys with certain heart problems should not take ED pills.
Jackp
There appears to be an increase in the number of brand new members making spammy posts.
I will post my recent history in this thread as it seems to fit better in this topic.
22 days ago I took my half-erect penis between the legs and bent it down, just a bit to lower an erection. Bad idea, I learnt some days later.
I masturbated twice after that, that morning. I noticed a lump in the left side (which I have learnt it is a possible signature of penile fracture). Also, I noticed (and continue to notice if I have a hard erection), some feeling of something below my glans (maybe blocking blood). I think my deep dorsal vein of penis is broken or blocked or something, and the veins at the side are inflated as if blood would not go up, and would go laterally.
Two days later, I noticed a deviation of my penis to the right. How much does peyronie take to develop? I think I had a penile fracture or a vein fracture and the blood leaking led to peyronie.
When the penis is in erection, I continue noticing a 3 cm bump at the left of my penis, possibly because of blood flow deviated, but I don't know. The doctors told me they saw no hematoma (it was 10 days after). The supossed peyronies bump is at the right of my penis.
I have two sources of "mild pain", the suposed peyronies bump, but also at the left of my penis I notice something, like blocking blood flow, or some deviated blood flow. Only the base of my penis if filled with blood, the head is not filled with blood and not hard. Even when my penis is not erected, I feel something strange in the left, as a deviated blood flow.
In urgences in two hospitals they said that at this point there was nothing they could do in urgence. They said they noticed no hematoma in my flacid penis.
As it is said in this thread french doctors are comediants and just tell "wait and see".
Any idea for diagnosis? Can peyronie at the base of the penis supress blood flow in the middle of the shaft? penile vein thrombosis? deep dorsal vein rupture in the middle of the shaft?
Any ideas on what is cutting the blood flux to the head of the penis?
Any suggestion for a doctor/clinic for peyronie/management of penile fracture in the area of France Rhone-Alpes/French-speaking Switzerland? I'm desesperate.
Can I still do something after 25 days? I am thinking in going to a private clinic.
In public hospital urgences they do not want to do nothing 24 hours later, but I have read reports in internet of surgically correcting penile fracture 1 month later with good results. Any ideas? A private clinic?
PS: To continue my last message, I think the blood flow to the head of the penis started to decrease the morning I made the bending movement, so I suspect a breaking of the deep dorsal vein of penis, not a blocking due to peyronie/inflamation. From what I read that produces no strong pain as a n ordinary penile fracture. In any case I do not remember things very well, as they happened a lot of days ago, I am now fitting the pieces of what happened. That day I was not worried at all.
Something to do 25 days later? Can still be an hematoma inside the penis???
Two or three days later I developed the curvature.
Hi,
my 3rd continued post. I am still researching the web to get a diagnosis.
I have read some posts in the forum about the possibility of damage of the suspensory ligament of penis by bending backward, that would fit with an 'rare penile fracture', i.e.: no pain, no hematoma...
Also, when wearing adjusted underwear I feel some mild pain in the base of penis.
Have anybody read this?, maybe there is hope after all:
http://www.urotoday.com/53/browse_categories/urologic_trauma_and_reconstruction/the_penile_suspensory_ligament_abnormalities_and_repair.html (http://www.urotoday.com/53/browse_categories/urologic_trauma_and_reconstruction/the_penile_suspensory_ligament_abnormalities_and_repair.html)
altantis - I'm a bit disappointed that the two hospitals you visited appeared to be somewhat dismissive and offered very little guidance. Maybe you'd benefit at this early stage, from seeing a recognised urologist?
Hi newguy,
I have already seen a private urologist, he told me that he thought there was no penile fracture, only noticed peyronie lumps, although he could not discard fracture completely.
In any case, he recognized from my erect penis photos that the head of my penis was not filled with blood, there was something strange with blood flow.
What I'm worried is that the same morning of the movement bending down my penis, I noticed something strange in it, there was a swelling below the glans in the erect penis (I think because of deviated blood flow, I continue having it now). I think Peyronie takes more time to develop (in my case I think it was two days, because two days later I noticed the lateral deviation), and that is what makes me worry and think I had some kind of fracture.
atlantis - Many people with peyronies notice a sudden deviation, but in some of those cases it's likely that an inflammatory response has been occuring previous to this, whether or not pain was present. It certainly sounds as if you've experienced an injury which has almost immediately (well, in a matter of days) resulted in a deviation and blood flow issue. In your shoes, I would still attempt to seek the attention of a known urologist, as it sounds to me that your entire diagnosis was done via sight alone. Dr Levine offers telephone consultations, so I would suggest that is a valid and proactive step to take at this stage.
As your current curve is not related to scar tissue, I suppose there is a chance that your situation could improve as it's still early days really. You must have inflammation though, so I'd take ibuprofin for a couple of weeks, along with l-arginine, pentox... and possibly viagra to achieve better erections. I wouldn't advise traction or VED right now even though you have a curve, due to the fact that this is recent and it might be better to let things settle down a little before going down that route.
I'm sure others will chime in with their take on your situation.
Hi,
just got back from the another urologist. He explained to me the possible cause of the inflamation I have at the left side, because my prepuce is always covering my glans, possibly the urine stored under my prepuce have started the inflamation. A similar case (in French, sorry I was not able to find something similar in English):
http://images.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http://img262.echo.cx/img262/1818/img17mb.jpg&imgrefurl=http://forum.doctissimo.fr/doctissimo/erection/penis-gonfle-droit-sujet_149204_1.htm&usg=__VSiXNHkXg80pyMqCYTJj2nRDqUE=&h=640&w=480&sz=21&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=wmKs75TQYzGYbM:&tbnh=137&tbnw=103&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgonflement%2Bpenis%2Berection%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1 (http://images.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http://img262.echo.cx/img262/1818/img17mb.jpg&imgrefurl=http://forum.doctissimo.fr/doctissimo/erection/penis-gonfle-droit-sujet_149204_1.htm&usg=__VSiXNHkXg80pyMqCYTJj2nRDqUE=&h=640&w=480&sz=21&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=wmKs75TQYzGYbM:&tbnh=137&tbnw=103&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgonflement%2Bpenis%2Berection%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1)
The photograph (in my case the inflamation is even bigger):
http://img262.echo.cx/img262/1818/img17mb.jpg (http://img262.echo.cx/img262/1818/img17mb.jpg)
That fits, because I have seen photos of peyronies afected penises with dramatic curvatures, but none with a big swelling area.
The doctor gave me Piascledine 300, which I read is another vitamien E suplement, and told me that what I have is just inflamation. He told me not to have sexual activity, no masturbation for one month (the other doctors told me I could masturbate without excess).
Still I can feel a lump (and the other doctor who diagnosed peyronie saw it), so I do not know what to think, or if peyronie and the inflamation caused by urine under the prepuce are related. In any case, when that inflamation be down, things will be much better.
I will continue going to other doctors, to see what they say.
You're being very proactive with this issue, so that's certainly positive. Let's hope that your condition turns out to be something that is readily treatable and that the treatment given to you works :). Keep us in the loop.
Hey all, I'm new to posting, but I've read many of the posts and I appreciate the time spent by everyone to share their information.
I'm 47 and last December (2008) I noticed a "dent" at the top, right side, about a half-inch below the head: This causes the end of my penis to curve upward slightly.
I have had no other noticeable physical effects since then.
However, I recently became paranoid about ED. Once I started reading the posts about ED a couple of days ago, it scared me, and yesterday I was not able to even obtain an erection while trying to stimulate myself (I'm currently single).
I was really stressed throughout the whole time and I'm thinking the main reason why I couldn't get an erection last night is b/c of the stress.
any comments are appreciated!
You just taught yourself an object lesson in "mind over matter" I'm afraid. Yes, being stressed about it will impair your erection, even when you're alone. It sounds like you have a pretty normal, relatively mild, manageable case of Peyronie's. That close to the glans, it shouldn't really cause a major ED problem, at least no more than a little softness at the head, which is what I deal with. Don't let your mind create an ED problem where there really is none.
Best advice, relax ... treat the Peyronies Disease conservatively, handle with care, and don't talk yourself into ED.
Good luck,
Nemo
Nemo,
Thank you for your opinion. I have an appt w/ a urologist next week.
(by the way, if anyone knows of an Atlanta Urologist they would recommend, I'd like to hear about it - I have an appt via http://www.atlantaurological.com/services.shtml with Dr. Schoborg)
Again, thanks to Nemo and everyone else. Because of this forum, I have been "treating" myself by taking Isomer E (Gen Nut), L-Arinine, and Saw Palmetto.
I have never experienced pain, in either erect or flaccid state. But, it seems like when my mind is focused on my penis and the "dent" I can feel discomfort, or not. But, when I don't think about it, I don't feel anything.
-cowboyfood
Is there any sort of pattern for how long it takes for ED to kick in? Or what kind of plaques cause ED, i.e. where it is placed?
I have a fairly large plaque in the middle of my penis and also on the top that is causing a dent and upward curvature, as well as a newer plaque lower down on my penis (not sure the placement), and am wondering what the chances are I might suffer from ED.
bluth
I don't think that there is a pattern, especially since the psychological part is very important for the correct function of a mans penis.
I suffered from ED in the very beginning of the disease (after about 1 month) but now (after 9 months) my erections are firm again. the only problem is my glans, which does not fill with blood like before (it seems as if the blood can flow in normally, but flows out of the glans too easily...) This may be connected to the location of my plaques very close to the top of my penis.
didi
There are men on the forum that have severe deformity and have had Peyronies Disease for over 10 years with NO impact on their erections, so didi is correct. There is no rule.
Is there any sort of idea how many people end up suffering from ED significant enough so that they can no longer get hard even without assitance from viagra, rings, etc?
It seems like this is a fairly small group, but I'm not sure and haven't seen any kind of statistics on this.
Quote from: Hawk on April 20, 2009, 11:08:16 AM
There are men on the forum that have severe deformity and have had Peyronies Disease for over 10 years with NO impact on their erections, so didi is correct. There is no rule.
Are you aware of people having Peyronies Disease for over ten years with no impact on their erections, and then having an impact?
It seems like you are saying that ED is no forgone conclusion after contracting Peyronies Disease (which I'd certainly hope), but I am more interested if ED often comes at a much later stage of the disease, an early stage, or if there is no rule whatsoever.
This may be what you are implying, but I'd just like to make sure I am interpreting you correctly. Thanks. ;)
Quote from: bluth on April 21, 2009, 09:29:07 AM
Are you aware of people having Peyronies Disease for over ten years with no impact on their erections, and then having an impact?
It seems like you are saying that ED is no forgone conclusion after contracting Peyronies Disease (which I'd certainly hope), but I am more interested if ED often comes at a much later stage of the disease, an early stage, or if there is no rule whatsoever.
This may be what you are implying, but I'd just like to make sure I am interpreting you correctly. Thanks. ;)
bluth,
It sounds like you are assuming ED follows Peyronies disease, when in fact in can be the other way around. One thought of causality is that ED starts to occur first, and then from being in a "not as firm as I used to be" state makes one more susceptible to bending or trauma that can trigger the Peyronies mechanism. I know I didn't answer your other question, but I don't have my 10 year veteran star yet.
Quote from: bluth on April 21, 2009, 09:29:07 AM
[Are you aware of people having Peyronies Disease for over ten years with no impact on their erections, and then having an impact?
No I am not aware of any that developed ED 10 years into the disease but I am sure there are some. Lots of the general population get ED. There is nothing to PREVENT that from happening to a man with Peyronies Disease as he ages etc.
Bluth, it sounds like you're panicking at the thought that ED follows Peyronies Disease, thus you're starting to feel doomed to get ED. That's a dangerous train of thought and I suggest you embrace the fact that there's simply no way to know or predict what Peyronies Disease will do to you. Could you develop ED? Yes. Will you? Maybe yes, maybe no. Realistically, there are numerous conditions that increase likelihood of ED - high blood pressure, diabetes, heart problems, etc., etc. Peyronies Disease doesn't doom you to ED, so stop panicking about that or else you'll worry yourself into ED problems that are purely self-induced.
Concentrate on treating your Peyronies Disease with therapies discussed here, continue to use your penis prudently and enjoy it. If (and that's a big IF) you develop ED down the road, there are numerous treatments that are very effective for managing it and continuing to have a great sex life. Cross that bridge when (and if) you come to it. Don't force the issue.
Take care,
Nemo
Thank you for the comments everyone. A very useful board as always. Best wishes to all ;D.
update,
first, thanks to the board's vets for their words of encouragement.
last week, I was "very concerned" about not being able to get an erection, and I was physically working myself over to try to obtain one with no success.
"very concerned" means I was in a total state of panic/depression/anxiety, you name it! My inability to get an erection happened "overnight" and I now understand that the ED situation was most likely a result of my psychological state...major anxiety.
anyway, b/c of the pm's to me, I started to get more rationale. I decided to just forget about trying to stimulate myself, and give it a rest; putting as little pressure on me as possible to get erect. Also, I went ahead and started taking 1/2 a pill of cialis every other day just to be "doing something.
well, the combination of my mind being much more normal combined with the cialis effect (I guess), I've had several nocturnal erections (believe me, I jumped out of bed, turned on the lights, etc.) that ranged between 6 and 8 on the scale I've seen posted.
...also, I noticed last night while I was walking home from law school (I'm 46 --- career change!!!, I'm not 26),
and only thinking about my upcoming con law final, I had an erection -- wow!.
so, b/c of the erections, I've been able to visibly evaluate my condition...and it looks about the same; dent on the top/right side, about an inch below the glans...so, it's about the same -- which I'm claiming a success...
it's been about the same since the end of december...my dent; maybe it's gotten a little more pronounced, but basically the same...
I'm seeing a 2nd uro on 5/11, one referred by my first uro b/c this guy is "into peyronie's.", I'll try to get the Pentox...another board member has seen this uro and got an Rx for pentox...
now, I'm taking
Vit E 400mg, down from 800 (GNC Isomer) I reduced just for the heck of it...
L-Arginine about 2g
Saw Palmetto
I've been meaning to pick up ALC --- just from what I've read.
per the supplements, personally I don't understand them, but I'm taking the advice from the board.
CB
Cowboyfood, isn't one of the side effects of saw palmetto - ED? What you taking that for specifically - Peyronie's or something else?
UK...
I have no idea! but, I'll look into it...
I'm taking it b/c a friend suggested it to me (before my Peyronies Disease condition)...I've never looked into the possible ED effects.
If so, I'm more than happy to stop taking it.
CB
I'm busy with school, but, a quick "google" on saw palmetto actually came up with one article (supposedly authored by an M.D.) that suggests SP is used to "eliminate" ED...
http://www.nature-ally.com/erectile-dysfunction.html
I'll look into more later.
CB
I'm taking saw palmetto for an enlarged prostate. It takes a while to take effect but I've gone from 5 to 7 toilet trips in the nite to 1 or 2.
Does anybody know what's the exact 'scientific' explaination that, while having a large curve in your penis, this affects the hardness and maintainance of the erection? I have significant bend but there is no pain whatsoever when erect.
Apparently there is a direct correlation. Because i have read some with some guys who have been able to straigthen the curve, the erectile riability also came back.
I have never heard a doctor give a thorough explanation of the mechanics of Peyronies Disease related ED.
Erections result from nerve centers transmitting the message for the release of nitric oxide (NO) in the walls of the penis arteries. These arteries lie deep in the penis. The NO causes the arteries to relax, dilate, expand. This dilation allows and increased volume on blood flowing into the penis. The rate is faster than the rate at which the veins allow the blood to flow out causing the penis to fill and expand. Incidentally, the veins lie close to the surface of the penis. This is kind of a chain reaction since an erect penis tends to squeeze and constrict the veins and this slows the volume of blood the veins can remove from the penis even more.
It is mostly my speculation but I think that Peyronies Disease causes ED in 2 ways. One is stress of the disease that cause adrenalin to attach to the NO receptors and prevent the NO from dilating the arteries. I guess it is also possible that Peyronies Disease could cause distraction from psychological stimulation and even prevent the release of NO. In either of these cases, one would likely still get night-time erections (NTE).
I speculate the other cause is physical in that the location of plaque is positioned so it prevents a major vein from being squeezed or constricted. In other words the plaque holds the constricting force off of the vein. This allows the vein to drain blood at a faster rate.
The problem is that al this is interrelated. As soon as a guy sees his penis is not as hard as it should be he begins to stress or experience anxiety which releases adrenalin. The adrenalin prevents the NO from dilating the arteries and now he has a mixed case of physical and psychological issues impacting his erection.
Since the veins are closer to the surface, the problem of veins transporting too much blood out of the penis can be helped with a constriction band like the adjustable Actis Loop.
Until someone finds (or comes up with) a better explanation, this one is the only thing that makes sense to me.
These illustrations my help. https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,106.0.html
Quote from: Hawk on May 01, 2009, 09:05:27 AM
I speculate the other cause is physical in that the location of plaque is positioned so it prevents a major vein from being squeezed or constricted. In other words the plaque holds the constricting force off of the vein. This allows the vein to drain blood at a faster rate.
So theoretically, by stretching fibrotic tissue (if possible) the veins could regain there ability to prevent blood outflow and thereby a solid erection would be regained?
Quote from: Pete28 on May 01, 2009, 10:12:57 AM
Quote from: Hawk on May 01, 2009, 09:05:27 AM
I speculate the other cause is physical in that the location of plaque is positioned so it prevents a major vein from being squeezed or constricted. In other words the plaque holds the constricting force off of the vein. This allows the vein to drain blood at a faster rate.
So theoretically, by stretching fibrotic tissue (if possible) the veins could regain there ability to prevent blood outflow and thereby a solid erection would be regained?
Sorry to disagree.
My understanding is that both the arteries and veins involved during an ereciton are below the tunica. Yes the arteries are deeper but all are beneath the tunica. By definition Peyronies Disease is scarring on the tunica. So I'm struggling with the physcial connection between Peyronies Disease and ED. Let's not forget that many with Peyronies Disease don't have any ED problems. I don't want anyone to think that if they get Peyronies Disease, that it automatically implies ED.
lwillisjr - I do that that there is a often link between ED and peyronie's. I suppose it could be argued that the number of peyronie's suffering being of a certain age, but even the younger members here often suffer from ED. There's probably a psychological component to that, but I'd be surprised if that explained all of what is occuring. Peyronies Disease is scarring, yes, but there is assumption being made that no damage at all occurs elsewhere. I'm sure there are multiple elements relating to this disorder that we are not fully aware of at this time.
Quote from: newguy on May 02, 2009, 08:50:33 PM
lwillisjr - I do that that there is a often link between ED and peyronie's. I suppose it could be argued that the number of peyronie's suffering being of a certain age, but even the younger members here often suffer from ED. There's probably a psychological component to that, but I'd be surprised if that explained all of what is occuring. Peyronies Disease is scarring, yes, but there is assumption being made that no damage at all occurs elsewhere. I'm sure there are multiple elements relating to this disorder that we are not fully aware of at this time.
Newguy,
I think we owe it to our fellow sufferers here that we need to change our way of thinking. Instead of of thinking that there is "probably a psychological component", we need to point out that there IS a psychological component. When I first developed Peyronies I was sure I was psychologically handling it fine. It took my wife to help me understand that it was affecting me mentally and physically. As men, all of us at one time focus on the way our penis looks, feels, the size, sensation, ability to achieve orgasm on command, etc. So when just one of these aspects changes it does impact us in some way. I was getting to where I was losing my interest in sex and didn't realize it. The frequency of sex slowly decreased and I didn't notice it. I was mentally slipping in to a new "comfort area" for me. No sex meant I didn't have to face my deformity or try to find new positions. Under regular circumstances I'm all for finding new positions, but not when it is because the current way is uncomfortable or isn't working.
I'm not saying there isn't some indirect link between Peyronies Disease and ED, but I haven't figured out the physics of penile mechanics of this yet. And my point is that we all need to realize there is a bigger psychological component at play here that we may not realize or choose to ignore. :)
It may depend on which site of the tunica and/or cavernosal bodies fibrotic changes occur and how 'big' the plaque is.
It's is well know that fibrotic changes in the penis can leave a pattern that is consistent with veno-occlusive dysfunction.
It occurs quite often, but not allways. The aswer to that i don't know. But it's the same question as why some people survive cancers and others not, why some people can run marathons below 3 hours and others not. I believe gene factors play a key role. Within a hundred years from now, i'm sure science will be able to explain a lot more.
[/quote]
Sorry to disagree.
My understanding is that both the arteries and veins involved during an ereciton are below the tunica. Yes the arteries are deeper but all are beneath the tunica. By definition Peyronies Disease is scarring on the tunica. So I'm struggling with the physcial connection between Peyronies Disease and ED. Let's not forget that many with Peyronies Disease don't have any ED problems. I don't want anyone to think that if they get Peyronies Disease, that it automatically implies ED.
[/quote]
Should I refuse an injection if my urologist wants to give me one to induce an erection and measure the degree of curvature in my penis?
I've read that people have advised against getting injections before and wanted to see people's thoughts before I visit my urologist today.
I have no trouble getting erections otherwise without any sort of ring or pills.
Thanks
Bluth:
Its difficult to make a case for injections because there is ALWAYS a risk. Many on this forum swear they will never allow another because of damage they had done whether by chance or just poor work by a urologist. Personally, I have been getting verapamil injections on a 8-week basis for about 2 years & have never had a problem-even with bruising. Its no picnic but, assuming you have a competent urologist, I would not refuse the injection if he/she thinks it is in order. I believe the odds are in your favor-especially if it is just once.
bluth
The injections I advise against are PGE1 and/or trimix for ED. These injections over time can cause corporal fibrosis. I tried them for about a year and made my corporal fibrosis worse.
An injection in the doctors office by a doctor should not cause any problems.
Jackp
How do you mean? There are a lot of 1 shot = permanent damage cases?
Then why is it performed in hospital if the risk it that high?
Quote from: voulezvous on May 06, 2009, 12:23:37 PM
Bluth:
Its difficult to make a case for injections because there is ALWAYS a risk. Many on this forum swear they will never allow another because of damage they had done whether by chance or just poor work by a urologist. Personally, I have been getting verapamil injections on a 8-week basis for about 2 years & have never had a problem-even with bruising. Its no picnic but, assuming you have a competent urologist, I would not refuse the injection if he/she thinks it is in order. I believe the odds are in your favor-especially if it is just once.
Quote from: lwillisjr
I'm not saying there isn't some indirect link between Peyronies Disease and ED, but I haven't figured out the physics of penile mechanics of this yet. And my point is that we all need to realize there is a bigger psychological component at play here that we may not realize or choose to ignore. :)
I think it's risky to go all of nothing with any statement, so that's why I included the "probably" comment really. I do agree though that I can see how dealing with peyronie's can impact our attitude towards sex, our image of ourselves and so on. Since peyronies tends to manifest itself once an erection is achieved, I can certainly see how on a conscious or unconscious level, there can be an element of fear attached to achieving an erection, because we never quite know what we're going to be presented with. It is a heavy load to carry. I myself thought that I can coping very well, but a few days back I had something I'd only be able to describe as a slight panic attack -something I've never before experienced. Very strange. It's no doubt often hard to gauge our own experience until we find ourselves in a different state of mind.
Again though, I do think that ED is sometimes linked to both the mental side or things, and peyronie's disease itself. I should think there is quite a spread of people with ED for one reason, the other, or both.
Maybe I was too extreme in my warning. I only meant to suggest that there are people on this forum who have had bad expeiences with injections. Not that it is "high risk." There's some risk involved in any procedure. At some point you either have to roll the dice a little & trust or you may not find any answers. Ultimately, its your decision.
Quote from: Pete28 on May 07, 2009, 06:22:25 AM
How do you mean? There are a lot of 1 shot = permanent damage cases?
Then why is it performed in hospital if the risk it that high?
Quote from: voulezvous on May 06, 2009, 12:23:37 PM
Bluth:
Its difficult to make a case for injections because there is ALWAYS a risk. Many on this forum swear they will never allow another because of damage they had done whether by chance or just poor work by a urologist. Personally, I have been getting verapamil injections on a 8-week basis for about 2 years & have never had a problem-even with bruising. Its no picnic but, assuming you have a competent urologist, I would not refuse the injection if he/she thinks it is in order. I believe the odds are in your favor-especially if it is just once.
I know that in my dealing with this condition my view of sex has changed immensely. It honestly doesn't seem as fun and care-free as it did before. I know that will change in time, but right now my views of sex have definitely changed in a big way.
Quote from: richB on May 12, 2009, 10:34:24 PM
I know that in my dealing with this condition my view of sex has changed immensely. It honestly doesn't seem as fun and care-free as it did before. I know that will change in time, but right now my views of sex have definitely changed in a big way.
richB
I suppose because of my age I am a rare situation but I want to respond to your post. I spent the 1st 60 years of my life with the "fun & care-free" feeling you mention as well. More to the point, without being aware of it, I was always confident to a fault & it affected my disregard for women's feelings. I used sex as a tool to build my ego. Then came the crash. I have been humbled & I will never take any level of sex for granted again. Truthfully, Peyronies Disease helped to make a better man of me because I learned 2 very big lessons: I am much more than my sexual ability and women (God bless 'em) are no where nearly as concerned about what is between your legs as I used to think. No, you will probably never be quite the same, physically or mentally, but, if you dig deep, you will find that life is still very, very good & you can find ways to use this trial to grow as a man.
Hawk,
Your explanation to erectile difficulty in Peyronies makes so much sense in my case. I am now waiting to start VED theraphy. Hopefully, I can manipulate some of the scarring positively in the course of time, which will allow my veins to contrict naturally. I do not have a clue where the scares are located, so I can only speculate.
Thanks - no doctor of mine has ever talked about any possible explanation to my ED. They simply tell me to use Viagra - "all your problems will be solved young man".
I have found absteining from masturbation, heat treatment and drinking alcohol to help with the ED and reduce the pain ("somewhat normalised erectile function", although as of yet with no spontanious erections). But as soon as I masturbate, I am more or less back to square one with ED and pain.
My penis is also not very sensitive anymore after 5 years with this disease. The day where I will have a spontanious, unpainful erection again will definitely mark a breakthrough for me.
I'm the same way, Bongo, but my reward will not have to expect every time I can't get hard for any reason whatsoever that this is the first time for the rest of my life that I've got full ED. It's that doubt that's the worst damn part of ED. Before I had peyronie's if I didn't get hard, oh well, there's always tomorrow. I'll get some sleep, or eat something, or try again in an hour. I have a dullness of sensation because of the pain I had for so long, too, or maybe because the scars are depressing nerves - I don't know, though the pain isn't almost ever there anymore.
Also, for those of you who experience ED from this - sometimes it feels as if I can feel the blood draining out of the side of my penis that is more scarred - of course it always causes me to panic and lose my erection, so I can't tell if I'd lose the damn thing anyway. Is this a common feeling? Or maybe me overthinking an uncomfortable feeling?
How much does Cialis cost on average per month?
richb,
I just filled a prescription at CVS for three 20mg tablets for $58.
I've been cutting them in half and taking one of the halves every other day.
However, the uro I saw yesterday suggested I try Viagra; he wrote me a prescription for 100mg pills and he wants me to cut them into 4 pieces; then take one of the pieces on a daily basis. But, I'm not sure of the cost.
Also, I believe Tim suggested using Horny Goat Weed in place of Viagra because it has the same "ingredient" that makes Viagra effective (search for his post, I don't have it handy); and, I believe the HGW route is substantially less expensive than Viagra.
I've never used Cialis (or anything similar) until a couple of weeks ago. It worked and help get me through a psychological rough spot I was going through.
CF
cowboyfood,
Cialis works over a longer period of time. Not sure why the uro recomended the Cialis over Viagra. With Viagra you have to do a little more "planning" for sex. I've had Cialis and Viagra. Both have the same positive effect for me, but the Cialis does seem to last longer. The viagra is not easy to break into 4 pieces.
I dropped the HGW for routine use of Cialis. IT does a better job of making me eternally ready, but slightly more side effects of nasal congestion. I take only about 5 mg every other day - a low dose.
Tim
Quote from: lwillisjr on May 14, 2009, 09:51:47 PM
cowboyfood,
Cialis works over a longer period of time. Not sure why the uro recomended the Cialis over Viagra. With Viagra you have to do a little more "planning" for sex. I've had Cialis and Viagra. Both have the same positive effect for me, but the Cialis does seem to last longer. The viagra is not easy to break into 4 pieces.
lwillisjr,
Actually, the uro (the second one) suggested the Viagra over the Cialis. I can't remember why (my bad). The first uro I saw gave me a prescription for viagra, cialis, and levitra, and did not elaborate on which to use. So, I just took a "stab" at cialis.
But, I think I'll try the Viagra...and, yes I've read on here that it is a challenge to cut the 100mg into 4 pieces. But, someone suggested that had some success with a pill cutter they bought.
CF
Cowboy and all:
My two-cents...I have experimented with both Cialis and Viagra over the past few years (following a difficult surgery). The two different pills are both easily cut into halves or quarters with a cheap over-the-counter pill cutter (the shape of Cialis makes it hard to judge cutting equal portions when you are trying for four equal quarters). Viagra caused me to flush (...I thought I was experiencing male menopause), congestion, and made my heart to race. The Cialis is a dependable ready-when-U-R solution without those side effects (for me)....I read a post by Tim468 that he had nasal congestion from the Cialis.
Like all these drugs... I think you need to find a good level for yourself and keep to a uniform schedule. I was originally using Cialis for "sex" and it caused me rushes....not the case now that I am using the minimum daily dose. Start with a smaller dosage and build-up.
JackieO
Am I the only guy around that gets the listed side effect of delayed back pain?
I have used all 3 but due to the back backpain from Cialis, and the need to avoid food with Viagra, I opt for Levitra.
I think I may be beginning to develop venous leak. This is very disheartening. It seemed to come out of nowhere.
Quote from: Hawk on May 18, 2009, 12:30:04 AM
Am I the only guy around that gets the listed side effect of delayed back pain?
I have used all 3 but due to the back backpain from Cialis, and the need to avoid food with Viagra, I opt for Levitra.
Hawk,
I've tried both Viagra and Cialis. No side effects with either one. sorry :-[
Quote from: richB on May 19, 2009, 10:49:37 AM
I think I may be beginning to develop venous leak. This is very disheartening. It seemed to come out of nowhere.
Richb,
What are the symptoms you are experiencing that leads you to think venous leakage? I'm just curious as I have no idea what the symptoms are.
Well, it might just be because I am experiencing new pains, but starting somewhere around the beginning of last week, every time I get an erection I feel the blood sort of just rushing back out from where it came. Also, the erections do not feel the same as they used to. It might just be my anxiety or something like that, but things do seem to have changed. It's hard to pinpoint. I can get an erection fine, keeping it is the problem. I can't just "sit" with it if you know what I'm saying. But I haven't really been able to do that since the onset of Peyronies Disease symptoms. Things just seem generally worse lately. I thought it was the anxiety of my exams at school, but things seems to have stayed since school let out.
I felt like this before when my Peyronies Disease started, and I recovered without any ED. I am not sure of the outcome this time.
EDIT: I know that venous leakage does not occur simply overnight, but over a period of time. It's been about 4-5 months since my Peyronies Disease showed up (wow time flies), and I am unsure of the progression. I know that at least two weeks ago things seemed to be improving. It might just be in my head. But I am unsure.
I have the same problem sometimes, RichB. Remember though, unless there is fibrosis in the corpora your venous leak can be resolved. By shrinking the plaques you can increase the amount of pressure on the circulatory system of the penis, thus maintaining longer erections. If it's even venous leak, I don't know -- I have a similar problem, where it seems like I can feel the blood leaving just one side of my penis, where the majority of my scars are.
Also, when I was a kid I could walk around with my hardon waving in front of me, leading the way - now, unless I'm getting direct stimulation (physical or visual) it goes away. This might be a symptom of age, since I manifested Peyronies Disease at 22 and am 25 now and I'm aware that a man's sexual peak occurs at 21. I've just started the VED this week, and it seems that I get a much stronger and fuller erection after using it (I'm not using constriction bands, either).
Also remember, if you get anxious or nervous your body will release adrenalin, which is an erection killer. I fall into that trap sometimes, getting panicked about not being fully hard, then not being able to get fully hard and not knowing if it's physical or if it's because I was worrying about it so much that my nerves got the better of me!
Can excessive masturbation friction induce fibrosis?
The only way to get erect is by long self stimulation. I try to do this very carefully. But the underside of my penis starts to harden. I first have to force the blood past 'the fibrotic hardering' at the base before being able to become erect. It also hurts a bit (friction). I have to stimulate for about fifteen minutes (with Cialis) to induce 'full erection'. Constant stimulation is needed, can maintain erection when lying on back, i also loose erection when standing.
I masturbated very long on Saturday because i wanted to test if i could still manage it. Now the underside of my penis starts to harden. Can fibrosis develop that quickly?
What should i do, give it a rest for a while and onely use VED?
The forcing of blood past fibrosis, does it induce more fibrosis?
I just dont know what to do NOT to improve the situation but to not make it worse: rest? (but lack of blood flow and movemant can cause fibrosis) or stimulation (friction also causes fibrosis).
Any opinion or advice would be very appreciated because i have a very serious problem here and can onely visit my uro within a month.
Pete, here's an idea that worked years ago for me. Buy a hand held electric vibrator, the kind intended for muscle relaxation, stress and so forth. You can find them at drug stores and online and they don't cost a fortune. Im not talking about sex store vibrators. Some have interchangeable heads. Use the head that is the most rounded and use that for stimulation. Don't push too hard and don't rub it back and forth; it's not necessary. It may take 10 or more minutes to get an erection; other days it will happen faster. This will get erections without hand stimulation and the worry, skin abrasion and swelling that comes from too much hand stimulation. It takes a little getting used to, but trust me, it works.
Hi guys, first time poster.
I really need to cry my heart out to some anonymous strangers that pay the same bill as I.
When I was 10/11, I was in a big hurry to get my jeans on, and bent it in a real bad way. I actually suffered bleeding afterwords out of it, I kept it to myself, and SEVERE pain.
I'm 25 now.
My unit 'tries' to go up, but it wont. It's numb even. Particularly before the part that i can literally bend is much harder than the rest of it. I have bleeding on my otherside also,(VERY hard to describe the area), which i've even had a proctologist check, and a dermatologist. Had a colonoscopy done, everything's in fine order. They can't figure out what it is, but I'm positive this started happening shortly after I hurt myself.
I've mentioned this to my doctor before, and again, and again. Finally got a referral to a doctor who, at first prescribed me viagra, that didn't work, went back again and saw him, told him the same symptoms, he's sending me to London ONT to see a doctor Brock, who's apparently top notch in this field. I get to wait 6 MONTHS before I can see him.
This has taken a toll on me so bad, it's ridiculous. I sort of just put in the back of my head all this time, putting it off, just extremely nervous / embarassed about it.
Are there any younger guys out there dealing with this?
Quote from: astyanax on May 31, 2009, 05:17:02 AM
I really need to cry my heart out to some anonymous strangers that pay the same bill as I.
When I was 10/11 I smashed my unit hard up against my jeans when my mother burst into a room, suffice to say I was playing with it. I actually suffered bleeding afterwords out of it, I kept it to myself, and SEVERE pain.
Had a colonoscopy done, everything's in fine order.
edit; told me i had peyronie's disease.
astyanax,
Many here are more than willing to listen and offer advice. Sounds like you are asking a couple of different questions. The main one seems how a young man of your age deals with this with relationships. Some of the younger guys on the forum will have to help with that.
At the bottom of your note was an edit that didn't makes sense. Who diagnosed you with Peyronies Disease? If this was your general practice doc, then he might suspect Peyronies, but you need to get it properly diagnosed. The fact you said there was blood when the injury occurred concerns me. You possibly could have some other damage or injury far beyond Peyronies Disease.
You referenced a colonoscopy. These are good for colon examinations, but would tell you nothing that I can think of regarding penile condition or health. Bottom line is that I think you want to get this diagnosed and FIXED if possible. So would encourage to keep your appointment with your specialist. Is this an urologist the specializes in Peyronies Disease, or a sexual specialist?
Why did you wait until the age of 25 to get this examined/fixed.
Apologize, my post below is a bit of a mess. Had a few drinks before writing it, going to clean it up.
The reason I waited so long, is because it's just so damned embarrassing (rather, when you're a teenager it is).
I was diagnosed by a urologist, my family doctor has told me in the past that it's just all in my head, etc etc.
Apparently this doctor specializes in doing surgeries in that area, he's highly regarded in the field. Just wish it wasn't a 6 month wait to see the guy, this has been really, really, driving me up the wall lately.
Astanyx
I understand your situation and feeling very good.
I'm also in sortalike condition.
Very difficult, nearly impossible to get erect. I've the feeling ALL my penis is becoming one big scar.
Each time i masturbate erections become more difficult and painful.
I had a Doppler (when flaccid) on saturday, but doc again says there is no fibrosis. That's not what i feel.
I feel abandonned and restless.
PS six months waiting is really abnormal. Usually those guys have 'more practices'. When you book them by hospital, weighting periods are often a lot longer. Maybe you have to find out if you cannot schedule an appointment with him through another route, his private practice for instance.
Quote from: Pete28 on June 01, 2009, 05:49:29 AM
PS six months waiting is really abnormal. Usually those guys have 'more practices'. When you book them by hospital, weighting periods are often a lot longer. Maybe you have to find out if you cannot schedule an appointment with him through another route, his private practice for instance.
Well, in Canada I don't think there is another route. I called his office, I was told 'it does take around 6 months to see him'. I got put on a list for cancellations nearly 2 months ago, but still nothing... I suppose people that have to wait 6 months aren't going to cancel the appointment no matter what.
Has anyone tried Pentoxiphilline for ED? What was the result?
Quote from: pichou on June 23, 2009, 11:34:06 AM
Has anyone tried Pentoxiphilline for ED? What was the result?
You likely mean "pentoxifylline" (aka Trental). It may help with ED to some extent though there are many other reasons why people take it for peyronie's. It's likely the most talked about oral treatment here, so I recommend doing a search.
I've seens references online that indicate that in the past, Pentox was used to some degree as a treatment for ED. However, the PDE-5 inhibitors like Viagra, Cialis, Levitra came along and eclipsed it totally in that regard, so I doubt if anyone is prescribing it for that purpose anymore.
Nemo
Has any one else noticed a lack of sexual feeling in their penis during sex? With the help of 1/2 cialis I can sustain a good erection but I can't feel a thing. I also have great difficulty reaching orgasm. I don't think the cialis is causing the lack of feeling because its there even when I havn't taken it. I am getting some bad side effects from the cialis for sure. The day after I feel headachy and hung over with a dry mouth and some back pain. I would really like to get some feeling back!
Cialis always causes me significant delayed onset back pain. Out of the main 3, Levitra is my preference.
I have the same thing, Hornman. Viagra and Cialis have a certain "numbing" effect on my penis, which can make things bad considering that I'm numb enough with the plaques! However, within a day or so of taking it my sensitivity is back to normal, it's usually just the night I've taken it that I feel that numbness. Peyronies Disease can itself cause numbness, as reported by myself and other users.
Ocelot556, I've just about eliminated my pain with curcumin (I mix 1.8g (http://www.easycart.net/BeyondACenturyInc./Herbals_C-E.html#8550) with olive oil, take it in the morning, and I'm good all day). It seems to me that getting rid of the pain due to inflammation should be your first step -- that pain really sucks.
I'd be interested in hearing how the pycnogenol (100mg)/arginine (2g) combo (empty stomach on waking) compares to viagra. Pyc and arginine eliminate (mild) ED for me, but I've never tried viagra so I can't compare.
Anyone know a good cheap place to get legit and effect cialis, viagra and levitra?
Cialis is offering a free months supply of daily Cialis or 3 36 hour Cialis.
The coupon was in my newspaper Tuesday or you can also print out the coupon at cialis.com.
You still need a prescription. Read the ad/coupon for details.
Jackp
peace forever and always brothers, i've joined the ed club too. at first it was just the peyronies but over time it spiraled into full blown ed. i have troubles getting and maintaining an erection and ejaculating really quickly now without much stimulation and dribbling after I finished urinating. the last two happening only within the past year or so. i have since then found out i have low testosterone (ahh). i visited a good doctor and he made no bones about it, i have to go on T Theraphy or....suffer! do you guys think being put on t should eleviate most of these these problems? i suspect it's the main culprit as my T levels have waned the past few years. all this happened progressively.
Overcomer
With testosterone (T) replacement you will get a boost in most of areas you complain about including ED.
Over a period of 4 - 6 weeks as your body gets used to the new T levels all the good benefits remain except for ED. I thought at first I have found a cure for ED but the effects faded rather quickly.
Dr. Abe Morgentaler has a good book called Testosterone For Life that will help you understand T treatment.
Hope this helps.
Jackp
They say my penial brachies are within limits however it is noted there slightly increased which would be keeping with possible medial wall calcification of the penile vessels. From a vascular laboratory. Does this mean I do have peyronies since its calcified lumps or can it be something different? I noticed a lump on the left side and the underside of my penis and they seem to connect to eachother. The both lumps are both in the middle. Like one is middle bottom and the other one is middle left. Can someone tells me what this means and if it is something different then peyronies disease. Maybe the lumps are blocking the blood flow?
How come no one answers my question?
Quote from: Noway on September 17, 2009, 11:53:57 PM
How come no one answers my question?
Are you able to achieve erections at all? I read through a few of your posts and you mentioned that viagra does not work for you? If it has been confirmed that you have calcifications (it seems that it has from your previous messages) then I would think that it due ot peyronie's. You should get on pentoxifylline if possible.
Ive been calsified for awhile I went for the test like 2 years ago been to 2 uros since and one thought it was peyronies disease but I took pictures and sometimes I get good erections. Also when feeling for the lumps sometimes they dont show good and you cant feel them but the uro said the only thing for peyronies is surgry only. Off of viagra and levitra I get really hard erections but I get delayed orgasm and after a while I lose my erection.
My two lumps seem to connect to eachother and I get really bad pain on erection and even when its not erected and Sometimes I get numbness and tingling. It seems if I wait like 5 days and dont masterbate I get really big erections and firm erections. I dont understand. Also the doctor that took my test for erectile dysfuction when it said on the paper I might have some calcification in the penile vessiles she said theres nothing I can do for you and its all in your head and didnt even do one other test. Maybe the lumps are slower down the blood flow? For curve wise I got a downward curve sometimes and sometimes its straight or goes up.
If I masterbate and say I get an erection the next day its not good at all it will be downward or messed up and hurt but if I wait like 4 days or 5 I get good erections it doesnt make sense. But even when my erections are good they stay hard for a while but then I start to masterbate I cant reach orgasm and lose erection.
Noway
Have you ever had any type of prostate surgery, TURP etc. Do you have back problems or ever had back surgery?
Prostate and back problems and/or surgery can lead to some nerve damage. That can cause ejaculation problems.
Jackp
Quote from: Noway on September 18, 2009, 11:15:41 AM
For curve wise I got a downward curve sometimes and sometimes its straight or goes up.
I really have no idea what would result in a curve to sometimes point in one direction, and at other times another. Are we talking about a slight or significant bend here? As you're experiencing pain, something certainly demands attention, but it's struggling to understand this situation fully. Maybe you mean that when you are partially erect is points out way, but when you are fully erect it tends to straighten out?
QuoteFRIDAY, Sept. 18 (HealthDay News (http://www.healthday.com/Article.asp?AID=631139)) -- A topical cream for erectile dysfunction shows promise in animal testing and could become an alternative for men who can't tolerate the pill form of the drugs, U.S. researchers report.
Quote from: jackp on September 18, 2009, 11:49:23 AM
Noway
Have you ever had any type of prostate surgery, TURP etc. Do you have back problems or ever had back surgery?
Prostate and back problems and/or surgery can lead to some nerve damage. That can cause ejaculation problems.
Jackp
No surgery for prostate no back surgery or back problems im 23 years old in the best shape of my life.
Noway,
I usually don't answer your questions for several reasons:
1) I do not log on that often right now.
2) Your posts don't make a lot of sense to me. You have described lumps, cords and bends to the shape of your penis that are different at different times or on different days - none of which sounds like Peyronie's to me.
3) Your posts are wildly erratic in nature with "flames" of others alternating with self-pity, despite efforts to help you deal with your feelings.
All of these tend to make me not engage in a dialog with you. When someone doesn't make sense to me, it doesn't make sense (to me) to spend time talking to them. Still, I do hope that my and others posts are of help to you and that you can find help here.
Tim
Tim468
1)I dont care if you log on at all.
2)I did describe my bend which is a downward bend and sometimes to the left side of my penis sometimes pushes more out to the left. It looks more like an S shape but its not fully erect when this happens. I dont know what cords look like. You really need to read my posts tim it explains it all I did a vascular test which said I have lumps and if you would actually take the time to read my posts it would answer your questions.
3)Also my posts are the way I express myself and people do express themselves differently. This forum is to help people talk about there feelings expecially being young and having this disease. If you dont have something nice to say dont say anything at all.
4) If it doesnt make sense to you dont say anything. Also I dont really care about your information.
Quote from: newguy on September 18, 2009, 12:01:49 PM
Quote from: Noway on September 18, 2009, 11:15:41 AM
For curve wise I got a downward curve sometimes and sometimes its straight or goes up.
I really have no idea what would result in a curve to sometimes point in one direction, and at other times another. Are we talking about a slight or significant bend here? As you're experiencing pain, something certainly demands attention, but it's struggling to understand this situation fully. Maybe you mean that when you are partially erect is points out way, but when you are fully erect it tends to straighten out?
My bend is pretty bad sometimes. I cant say exactly the degree of the bend because it varies. You got my other question right on the nose when its not fully erect theres more of a bend and looks more deformed but when its fully erect it straightens out alot but I still cant reach orgasm. Also the pain seems to be more on the top of my penis and on the left side I get like tingling and numbness sensations.
noway, I do think that what you are experiencing could be a rare expression of Peyronie's which could be at the root of your problem. My recommendation would be that you try to see a sexual function specialist. I think that your case really cries out for that. I think that a sexual function specialist might be able to help you sort this out and steer you in the right direction. I would take the pictures with you and also take the Pentox research papers in the resource library on this website with you when you visit the sexual function specialist. I think that because of your age and the type of problem you are experiencing, the other doctors are just brushing you off. jackp might have more thoughts on this since he seems to know more about this area of medicine. In my experience Peyronie's inflammation can cause temporary penile disfigurement and can also cause erection killing pain. All of this leads me to believe that a sexual function expert would be the best alternative for you at this point. They would likely be a whole lot more sympathetic than a urologist and might even be willing to prescribe you Pentox if you provide them with the documentation. You should also be ready to sign whatever releases the previous docs require so that any previous records can be forwarded to the sexual function specialist so that he or she won't have to reinvent the wheel on this.
I also recommend that you try to get your general health in as good shape as possible. Your overall health can make your problem better or worse. I very much recommend Real Age (http://www.realage.com) and Dr Oz (http://www.doctoroz.com) for tips on how to improve your diet and lifestyle.
Also please try to be patient. Everyone here is trying to help you with this, but many of us are as frustrated in trying to figure it out as you are. I wish you the best. - George
Noway,
You said, on July 22, "My lump is on the left side in the middle of my shaft and the cord like lessions go to the bottom of my penis"
Today you said "I dont know what cords look like."
Do you see how it is confusing?
You took pictures of your bent penis to the doctor and he said "It's straight" - did you not try to take the pictures when it was bent? You have said more than once that it is bent to the left sometimes and straight other times.
The "Go to" (your words) urologist said it doesn't make sense - and it doesn't.
I do wish you the best. If you don't like my posts, skip them. I shall do the same of yours - and now you will know why at least one member does not "answer you".
Tim
Noway
I agree with Tim your post are confusing and contradictory. The one thing I do not doubt is you are having a problem.
No back or prostate problems. That is a beginning on ruling out what problem you have.
A Male Sexual Function Specialist is now your best bet. General Practice Urologist are not good at this. These doctors are difficult to find because there are not many good ones.
I try to keep a list of good doctors. You can reply to this message with your general location or send me a PM and I will try to find a doctor for you. Do not be offended by this but you may need a sex therapist also. You also may need to travel to get a good doctor.
I and others will try to help you. Just calm down the bad attitude is no help.
Have you started the VED exercise. If not what are you waiting on it is the one thing you can do for yourself to improve things.
You are a young man, I am much older when I was your age I was also much like you, but life and my beautiful wife of 41 years have mellowed me to a gentleman. You can be also.
Jackp
Quote from: Tim468 on September 20, 2009, 10:35:30 PM
Noway,
You said, on July 22, "My lump is on the left side in the middle of my shaft and the cord like lessions go to the bottom of my penis"
Today you said "I dont know what cords look like."
Do you see how it is confusing?
You took pictures of your bent penis to the doctor and he said "It's straight" - did you not try to take the pictures when it was bent? You have said more than once that it is bent to the left sometimes and straight other times.
The "Go to" (your words) urologist said it doesn't make sense - and it doesn't.
I do wish you the best. If you don't like my posts, skip them. I shall do the same of yours - and now you will know why at least one member does not "answer you".
Tim
I never said "cord like lessions" I said it feels like the 2 lumps connect and the "go to urologist" is the one guy I seen because the first urologist sent me there. What doesnt make sense to him is that I get different erections like I was saying. Tim how does your brain work?
Jack p dont tell me to calm down when tim468 puts up a post to hate on me. I never asked for his help and if tim doesnt understand my posts he can ask me questions. Also Jack p im not listening to anything you put up here now.
OK noway, listen to me then. Find a Male Sexual Function Specialist and make an appointment as I suggested in my previous post. Your posts DO make sense to me and you need to get help for yourself and that is not going to happen by just reacting to people. You have to take charge of your life and not let the surrounding static confuse you into a state of inaction. I can't MAKE you see a doctor who can help you, I can only suggest it. YOU have to follow through. Talk to either your regular doctor or one of your urologists and tell them "I want a referral to a Male Sexual Function Specialist". Don't be hostile about it but do be assertive. They should know of someone in your region to refer you to and you have the right to request a referral for, if nothing else, a second opinion. - George
what would a Male Sexual Function Specialist do differently then a urologist?
Quote from: Noway on September 21, 2009, 02:30:09 AM
what would a Male Sexual Function Specialist do differently then a urologist?
He would be able to diagnose and or rule out any and every other possible cause of erectile dysfunction. From your posts you seem to have quite atypical symptoms, so it would definitely be a good idea to make sure of your diagnosis.
You would not want to waste a hell of a lot of time on Peyronie's treatments only to find out later on that it was not Peyronie's at all.
Everyone is here to help everyone else. I know how frustrated and angry these kinds of problems can make you feel, especially at a young age, but you've got to stop taking offense at everything. This is probably the one place where everyone can understand where you are coming from. I am 28, I should not be having erection issues at this age.
Noway: "I never said "cord like lessions""
Um, yeah, you did. These things ("...") are called quotation marks. I do not use them for emphasis - I use them to quote others (as in, they said it). So, I quoted you. That means that you said it.
Here is the link. Go back and read it.
https://www.peyroniesforum.net/index.php/topic,35.msg20736.html#msg20736
See? You said that.
You don't know how my brain works? I am here to "hate on" you?
Here are some of my favorite quotes by you:
"Is dr.levine the best? or would it be a waste of time going to see him?"
(this in response to a thread mentioning Dr. Levine and suggesting that you go see him).
"Your penis isnt made to be "stretched out" it will damage the erection process. So maybe your penis will be longer but you might tear it more or make yourself completely limp. Myself I wouldnt use this method."
(this in response to a lengthy thread about the use of the VED (suggesting that you try it) and why it has helped more men here than any single other modality of treatment)
"For curve wise I got a downward curve sometimes and sometimes its straight or goes up. "
(this is inconsistent with a fixed lesion.)(that means something that is 'fixed in place', not corrected or repaired)
IOW, you have been consistently given good advice here and ignored it, or challenged it (that's OK, when the challenge makes sense and has not been debated for an eternity already - something that you would know if you actually READ the threads here instead of simply posting your inchoate thoughts ad nauseum).
It is really time for you to take the cotton out of your ears and place it in your mouth. Listening to what others have to say instead of ignoring it will HELP YOU. Do you not get that?
No, I am not being particularly "nice" to you. Deal with it. You have been rude and offensive to others here and it is tiresome. Try listening and learning.
Quote from: Noway on September 21, 2009, 02:30:09 AM
what would a Male Sexual Function Specialist do differently then a urologist?
Urology = focus on the urinary tract
Sexual Function = focus on sexual function
Which one are you having a problem with? The answer to that question should answer your own question. - George
My glans penis does not become engorged and firm when I am aroused and have an erection but remains flaccid and mushy. This began about 1.5 years ago and as you can imagine causes severe problems with intromission as the glans head is soft and floppy and bends upwards or downwards at a 90 degree angle when axial pressure is applied. Does anybody know anything about this, experienced it or any general suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
NoWay,
You have said
Quote from: Noway on September 21, 2009, 01:06:25 AM
I disagree with your post hawk. Also I think saying im going to punch you in the face is humerous :).
You are entitled to disagree with me, many have and many will. You are NOT entitled to violate forum rules because you find violating a rule humorous. There are consequences for violating forum rules that you may or may not find humorous.
In addition to blatant violation of forum rules you have demonstrated immaturity with your announced refusal to listen to anything more than one Major Contributor(s) to this forum have to say (Jackp, Tim246 etc). You reject use of the VED as recommended by Old Mad, Angus, and a score of others. This leads one to ask why you come here. You have made no attempt to teach us about superior methods of treatment. You refuse advice, you insult members, and you violate forum rules.
It is time to modify your actions on this forum or consider finding some other source for whatever it is you come here for (certainly not advice or input).
Hawk
PS: It is easy for this to turn around. It can go either way, you decide!
One of the toughest challenges I've faced over the past 10 months is overcoming the psychological harm caused by this condition. Earlier in my life, I dealt with some minor forms of hypochondria. So, researching this condition tested my ability to deal with reading about others' experiences.
What scared me senseless last spring was the fact that I might have some form of ED. Being single, I did not look forward to this situation, and honestly I was a total wimp about this possibility last spring. I was down, physically and mentally.
But, with the help of "time", others here (old man, tim468, jackieO, angus, george999, hawk, nemo, and others), the VED, viagra & pentox, plus supplements, my erections apearred again, and then became very good.
The idea of venous leakage concerned me. I did a "test" today to see how long I could sustain an erection. Man, this was awkward because it's a clash of becoming sexually aroused with data gathering.
I thought I'd use a 25mg dose of Viagra for support.
So, with some minor stimulation here and there, I sustained an erection for about 17 minutes before I said that seems good enough.
I guess that's okay...I could have gone longer but I'm busy.
The leakage issue has been a concern because I'm not sexually active right now with another. And, self-service can be only "so" stimulating. I'd been noticing that I was having trouble maintaining an erection for very long which led to some minor anxiety; which, of course, only subdues the erection even more.
I know I might sound crazy, but I can get this way sometimes. Actually, I'm mentally ready to begin dating again (I think I reached the point of being "over" stressing about the condition and had to relax).
I'm still carrying some baggage, but it seems to continually diminish. Oh, I just had a uro appointment last week and I think I can get a little weird mentally after an appointment.
I'm looking forward to providing a detailed update later in the year, maybe december when finals are done. But, my condition seems to have been stable for a couple of months....December is my one-year anniversary.
CF
CBF
Some of us have been discussing blood flow to the penis (off forum) and how it effects the nerves in the glans and nerve bundle at the base of the penis.
One of the group is a health care provider with peyronies and other problems. I have peyronies and heart problems with coronary artery disease (CAD). This affects the blood flow to the nerves in the glans.
My implant solved many problems. Now my glans engorges pretty well but the feeling were not there. While I was on blood thinners I had more feeling in the glans but have been off the blood thinner for a year. I was discussing this with my doctors at Vanderbilt and they concured that the blood thinner helped stimulate the nerves in the glans. I did not want to go back on blood thinner unless my heart doctor recommended. There recommendation was 5mg Cialis daily.
I started the daily Cialis and can say it has worked. Glans stimulation is much better and there the difficulty I was having with ejaculation is much better.
At your young age CAD may not be the problem but anxiety could be. I'm not sure but the daily Cialis might be worth a try. You can get a coupon for a free months supply at www.cialis.com.
Hope it helps.
Jackp
So I was just wondering if you guys with peyronies get bad erections all the time or if sometimes there good.
Also my family doctor got me too do two blood tests one was for hormones and something else which I wasnt too sure of that came back good and the other one was for lesions which was like 4 weeks ago and he never called back so it must of came back good. But for the lumps he told me you want to remove those and you could have other problems because sometimes I do have decent erections. I dont know what to do im calling him again Its still really bad. I still get painful erections and really half ass erections.
Quote from: Noway on November 11, 2009, 02:53:18 AM
So I was just wondering if you guys with peyronies get bad erections all the time or if sometimes there good.
noway,
Many of us with Peyronies Disease can get good erections. Having Peyronies Disease doesn't necessarily your erections will be bad. But because the Peyronies Disease scarring causes bends or deformities, then the ability to achieve an erection can become a very mental game. If one isn't happy with or doesn't like the look of their erection, then this can be a bigger mental factor.
Quote from: Noway on November 11, 2009, 02:53:18 AM
So I was just wondering if you guys with peyronies get bad erections all the time or if sometimes there good.
I had bad erections for awhile, but they are really quite good now. I'd say better than before injury, if I disregard the dent.
Meds etc will help, but go do some weight and interval training. Get your fitness up and you will find the quality of your erections increases ten fold.
I read this site about tms Traumatic Masturbatory Syndrome. www.healthystrokes.com is the website it talks about masterbating prone in the wrong fashion. So if your having trouble ejaculating or even soft erections you should check out the site maybe you have a little bit of this.
The traumatic masturbation syndrome is a made up thing by a whack job (so to speak) with unique theories. It has not been verified in any independent manner. It MAY apply (validly) to virginal males with little sexual experience who masturbate facedown with the penis facing south instead of north. The problems they suffer, though, may be due to their limited sexuality, psychological issues, or emotional immaturity - instead of the position they use to masturbate. The TMS simply does not satnd up as a "real" disorder and is no so llisted in any DSM manual.
Take what you find or read on any of those sites that talk about it with a grain of salt.
Wayne posted about this a year ago and some digging by others here cleared that up.
Just FYI.
Tim
For a balanced discussion of this try: http://www.soc.ucsb.edu/sexinfo/question/traumatic-masturbatory-syndrome-information
On my end, both good news and bad news. The good news is the pain has relatively subsided for good. On some days, there is no pain, and other days, maybe a 1 or 2 out of 10.
The bad news is I think I am beginning to develop some type of erectile dysfunction. I can get an erection only thru constant stimulation and everything is normal. If I am not stimulated, I cannot maintain an erection. I don't have my appointment with Dr. Levine for 3 weeks so if there are any suggestions, let me know.
I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced a reduction in pain coinciding with the inability to maintain an erection. Like I said, I can get an erection, just have to stimulate constantly or it will go away.
Thanks!
Are there foods or liquids which can improve erectile dysfunction or act as vasodilators? Since the ED associated with Peyronies is tissue-related, can the oral-treatments, which are also used to treat Peyronies, help with the ED?
Well I still have the same problems but no lesions. My problems are as follows lump on the left side of my penis, indentation on my urethra, when I masterbated I lose my erection lenth, bend downwards and looking down at my erection sorta looks like a S curve. Im not sure what to do now Ive went back to my family doctor hes sending me to another urologist but it seems like they dont know much and cant really help me what should I do?
Several weeks ago, I began to worry about potential ED. Part of it may have been mental. I began taking 1 500 mg pill of l-arginine in the morning and 1 500 mg pill of l-arginine in the evening. I also drink one glass of pure pomegranate juice per day as it is an anti oxidant.
In my case, any vestage of ED has been cured. I often wake up with an erection and the erections I do have are superb. Of course, this hasn't done anything to really help the curavture or plaque, but it has alleviated the mental part of the problem.
My suggestion is to use a lot of anti oxidants such as pomegranate juice, cucumber, peanut butter and start taking l-arginine supplements.
A lot of forum members take 2000 mgs of l-arginine daily, but 1000 has proven just fine for me.
I forgot to add I have burning sensation on the side of the penis where the lump is off and on.
Quote from: snowydreams on December 10, 2009, 07:43:16 PM
Are there foods or liquids which can improve erectile dysfunction or act as vasodilators? Since the ED associated with Peyronies is tissue-related, can the oral-treatments, which are also used to treat Peyronies, help with the ED?
L-Arginine and Pentoxifylline were once used as conservative treatments for ED. Conservative means they didn't always work well to treat ED. L-arginine may have some benefit in encouraging morning erections, pentox maybe, but that's not what pentox was designed to do. If you are having ED problems, go see a urologist. Prescription medications may or may not be necessary. It may be mental rather than physical. Go see a urologist to find out for sure.
-Skjald
Quote from: Noway on December 10, 2009, 10:32:56 PM
Well I still have the same problems but no lesions. My problems are as follows lump on the left side of my penis, indentation on my urethra, when I masterbated I lose my erection lenth, bend downwards and looking down at my erection sorta looks like a S curve. Im not sure what to do now Ive went back to my family doctor hes sending me to another urologist but it seems like they dont know much and cant really help me what should I do?
A lump may be a Peyronie's lesion. Pain, indentation and penile shortening may be signs of Peyronie's Disease. Go see a urologist or a male sexual health specialist physician. Ask them about starting pentoxifylline. If you are having erectile problems, ask about trying medications for ED.
One thing you can do for yourself is to read up on the information found in the forums. The "Highlights" areas are good places to start. Those areas may have already answered your questions. If you don't find an answer there, ask away.
-Skjald
Quote from: Skjaldborg on December 10, 2009, 11:04:46 PM
Quote from: Noway on December 10, 2009, 10:32:56 PM
Well I still have the same problems but no lesions. My problems are as follows lump on the left side of my penis, indentation on my urethra, when I masterbated I lose my erection lenth, bend downwards and looking down at my erection sorta looks like a S curve. Im not sure what to do now Ive went back to my family doctor hes sending me to another urologist but it seems like they dont know much and cant really help me what should I do?
A lump may be a Peyronie's lesion. Pain, indentation and penile shortening may be signs of Peyronie's Disease. Go see a urologist or a male sexual health specialist physician. Ask them about starting pentoxifylline. If you are having erectile problems, ask about trying medications for ED.
One thing you can do for yourself is to read up on the information found in the forums. The "Highlights" areas are good places to start. Those areas may have already answered your questions. If you don't find an answer there, ask away.
-Skjald
Ive tried levitra and viagra bothed worked but I have trouble ejaculating which I think it has to do with lump. I got tested for lesions and it came up negative. I can get good erections sometimes but then I cant finish.
Noway
What kinds of meds are you on? Medication for high blood pressure, heart problems, antidepressants and others can case your problem.
It could also be from back surgery or back problems with the nerves.
If the problem is with the nerves in the glans sometimes daily 5mg of Cialis will help. Blood thinners also help but you do not want to go there unless you have a heart condition that requires blood thinner.
Jackp
Quote from: jackp on December 11, 2009, 08:02:01 AM
Noway
What kinds of meds are you on? Medication for high blood pressure, heart problems, antidepressants and others can case your problem.
It could also be from back surgery or back problems with the nerves.
If the problem is with the nerves in the glans sometimes daily 5mg of Cialis will help. Blood thinners also help but you do not want to go there unless you have a heart condition that requires blood thinner.
Jackp
Im 23 years old im not on any medication right now. I do get a sore back sometimes but Its because of the kind of work I do. Im in really good shape but my erections are just not good its very depressing. I could ask to try cialis when I go see the next urologist that sais my problem is all in my head. Is there a way to straighten out the shorter side of my penis to deminish plague? I also have 2 hard veins on my penis im wondering what that could be...
Noway
At your age the 5mg daily Cialis should help. Your urologist should have a coupon for a free months trial if not go to www.cialis.com and download the coupon.
As for the veins I do not have any clue, talk to your doctor.
Jackp
If your penis curves to the left like the bottom theres an indent how can you straighten out the shorter side to equal the longer side?
I'm not sure of the mechanics, but for an indentation, they usually do a grafting. If there is no plaque, I'm not really sure how it works. Some of the forum members have had plication surgery for the same problem. They can explain it most likely.
Quote from: chiguy on December 12, 2009, 05:05:14 PM
I'm not sure of the mechanics, but for an indentation, they usually do a grafting. If there is no plaque, I'm not really sure how it works. Some of the forum members have had plication surgery for the same problem. They can explain it most likely.
Yeah but is there anything besides surgery that would help?
So i went to see this new urologist in town and he seems to better than my past ones and he sais he doesnt feel any scarring on my penis that my penis has a problem of trapping the blood and getting erections so hes letting me try penile pump which im kinda sketchy on.
Did you ever have a penile doppler ultrasound? That's really the only way to determine scarring and/or venous leakage.
Noway
The VED board has lots of information on using the VED (penis pump). Those of us that use that will be glad to assist you. Old Man is the best on this subject.
Jackp
Erectile dysfunction, sometimes called "impotence," is the repeated inability to get or keep an erection firm enough for sexual intercourse.
Generic Cialis is an ED treatment which contains the same active ingredient as Cialis brand. Generic Cialis is a very popular ed treatment, used to assist men achieve an erection. Erectile dysfunction, is a medical condition that interrupts achieving an erection or having sex. With Cialis, or generic Cialis, men can enjoy a healthy sex life.
Hyperlink removed by moderator as per forum rules.
are you an affiliate of the pharmacy?
My initial excitement with improved testosterone level (Testim topical gel) lasted less than a week. At my 30-day follow up this week, my urologist ordered blood work looking specifically at my estrogen levels.
This article was an eye opener for me (emphasis added). I do not yet know if this is my situation, but increasing my testosterone level may have resulted in increased estrogen, negating the desired effects on erections from raising my testosterone level. Most of the aromatase inhibitors are banned materials in Olympic athletes, so I guess that dream is gone, if the doc prescribes such for me. LOL
While awaiting my test results, I am considering grape seed extract drops (resveratrol), a potent botanical aromatase inhibitor with a lot fewer calories than red wine, and much lower cost than the Rx meds.
http://www.sandiegosexualmedicine.com/index.php?page=male/sexual-medicine-treatments/aromatase-inhibitor-therapy
Aromatase Inhibitor Therapy for Erectile Dysfunction
Aromatase inhibitor therapy may be helpful for some men with erectile dysfunction (ED). Aromatase is an enzyme, especially found in the liver, ovary and adipose tissue, required for the conversion of androgens to estrogens. Specifically, aromatase is responsible for the conversion of the androgens androstenedione and testosterone into the estrogens estrone (E1) and estradiol (E2), respectively. In women, the great majority of testosterone is converted to estradiol and estrone, whereas in men, most of the testosterone stays as testosterone, and only a small percentage is converted to estradiol and estrone.
Aromatase inhibitors prevent the action of the enzyme aromatase. Thus, in the presence of an aromatase inhibitor, the body produces less estradiol (E2) and estrone (E1) and maintains a higher level of testosterone. Aromatase inhibitors have been traditionally used as second-line therapy (after tamoxifen) for the treatment of breast cancer, tumors that usually depend on estrogen for growth.
In men, the effect of 2.5 mg of the aromatase inhibior letrozole suppressed plasma estradiol to concentrations less than 50% of pretreatment values after 2 days, with recovery to approximately pretreatment values after 6 days. These decreases were accompanied by increased gonadotrophin (luteininzing hormone - LH and follicle stimulating hormone - FSH) concentrations, with resultant increases of approximately 50% in plasma testosterone.
In men, aromatase activity appears to increase with age. This is particularly so in men with a high body mass index. Increased aromatase activity in men results in conversion of testosterone into higher levels of estradiol. This is especially a problem if men are taking exogenous testosterone (intramuscular testosterone enanthate or cypionate, or topical 1% testosterone as a hydroalcolic gel) for treatment of hypogonadism. Under such conditions, raising the testosterone in a man with a high aromatase level will elevate the serum estradiol. It is controversial but several investigators believe that elevated estradiol values in men are responsible, in part, for causing persistence of many of the symptoms of "androgen insufficiency", despite receiving testosterone treatment. Some investigators also believe that higher estradiol values are associated with prostate enlargement and there is increasing discussion of the role of estrogen in abnormal prostate tissue growth. High levels of estrogen are also thought to result in male hair loss.
Thus there appears to be a role ("off-label" as it concerns FDA government indications) in the use of aromatase inhibitors in some men with sexual dysfunction and elevated estradiol values.
Very interesting link - and very useful information! Thanks!
Tim
6 weeks ago I had excision and grafting surgery.
Since then.
Things are getting better.
All bruising is gone.
Most all soreness is gone.
Still some minor soreness at graft area.
And slight soreness at circumcise area.
Erections are regular.
But not ridgit and fully firm.
My question is, for those who have had this surgery.
Did anyone experience the same situation?
Just wondering, if that's the norm?
I am overall happy with the results of this surgery.
And, was informed that it would take awhile, for a full recovery.
Maybe I'm being a little anxious.
But, I can't help but wonder.
Does DHEA help Peyronie's and the erectile dysfunction associated with it and is it safe to take as I have read that it has serious side effects?
"Does DHEA help Peyronie's and the erectile dysfunction associated with it and is it safe to take as I have read that it has serious side effects?"
Don't know if DHEA helps. It makes sense that it *could* help, like may chemicals, drugs and supplements, but I have not heard of any reports that it does.
Tim
I was highly disappointed in my lab results. After more than a month on topical testosterone gel, my testosterone went DOWN by 4%, from 291-279. The doctor did not order the E2 (Estradiol) level as I expected. His only comment was that I may need a dose adjustment. Ya THINK?!
I have been extra careful to take nightime Viagra on an empty stomach and 30-60 minutes before my last meal of the day. That and oral grape seed extract results in more frequent night time erections.
I learned that eating a very low fat diet (< 20%) may contribute to endocrine (thyroid, testosterone, and insulin) problems. I find it is far easier to cut out fat (buy everything marked low fat) than it is to add healthy fat, and not go crazy on total calories. Eating a "low fat diet" may not be all that healthy, nor necessarily help you to lose weight. Eating a lower saturated fat diet (< 60 mg) is OK, so long as the total fat is above 20%. Of course, eliminating trans fats is wise.
I see my regular doctor next month, and I will review this with him. Perhaps I can persuade him to check the E2 level, and I can report those results to my urologist in May.
BrooksBro, after a long time researching and reading up on the whole testosterone issue, I think I can confidently say, if you're interested in TRT and you're going to a doctor who doesn't know to check E2 (or has to be talked into it), you need to find a different doctor. T and E2 are so interrelated that it's like throwing darts with a blindfold if you don't know both. Your topical T could be getting conversted to E2, driving your E2 sky high and that could be the problem. In that case, you'd need a drug to keep E2 down so you could get the benifit of the T you do have. You just have to know both.
I'd consider finding a doc in your area who does this routinely, if you can. It's not easy.
Good luck,
Nemo
Thanks. I have high confidence that Larry Lipschultz is the right doc. He is the urology department head at Baylor college of medicine in Houston. Levine has mentioned Lipschultz in some of his lectures, and they appear to be on the same page with treatment. I usually see one of the docs in the urology residency program first, and then Lipschultz. I can't explain how he missed this one, especially since he was the one who mentioned the possibility of needing an estrogen blocker. Perhaps the phlebotomist didn't order the correct test based on the doc's verbal order. I see my usual internal medicine doc in a few weeks. He discovered and is treating my hypothyroidism. I have also considered seeking out an endocrine specialist. Fifty percent of all physicians finished in the bottom half of their graduating class, and all of them are only "practicing" medicine.
Quote from: Nemo on March 18, 2010, 04:06:20 PM
BrooksBro, after a long time researching and reading up on the whole testosterone issue, I think I can confidently say, if you're interested in TRT and you're going to a doctor who doesn't know to check E2 (or has to be talked into it), you need to find a different doctor. I'd consider finding a doc in your area who does this routinely, if you can. It's not easy.
Is it normal for someone in their mid twenties to only get one or two spontaneous erections per day? I used to get many more at age 18, like 5-8 per day, and can't tell if its from age or peyronies that my frequency is so much less, somedays I may get one erection if that, and we know that spontaneous erections are good for oxygentation of the penis.
Comebackid
ComeBack
It has been a long time since my mid 20's but I can tell you this. Check your medication and supplements and see if any have any sexual side effects.
Then find a good male sexual function specialist. It could be you have early stages of venous leakage. It could also be caused by the anxiety of peyronies.
Good Luck
Jackp
Jackp,
I know I have venous leakage, after being on anti depressants, combined with peyronies, I don't get many erections at all per day, I still have a sex drive though. Not getting erections is bad for peyronies, as you don't oxygenate the tissue. I try to masterbate/massage an erection twice per day. Once in the morning and once at night. Even as I massage an erection, it takes focus and effort to keep it hard. The pentox I'm on has helped it "fill up" properly, so this is a good thing. I can't just keep an erection like a porn star though, if I'm not constantly massage my penis, it will "deflate" or be "thin" not really filled up, this is from the venous leakage. My question is more for you older guys, how many spontaneous erections did you get in your mid twenties, when I was 16 seemed like I always had an erection, almost to much being in school all day! Now I get very few and I'm not sure if thats natural, or the peyronies and anti depressants killed them.
Comebackid
CBK,
Without pointing to any authority, yes, it's natural for spontaneous erections to become less frequent as one ages; and, for a man to reach a point to require some physical stimulation to obtain and maintain an erection.
That being said, and as you know from this forum, the physical and mental mechanics of obtaining an erection are to say the least complex and miraculous IMO.
Never underestimate the psychological involvement in the process. I'm inferring from your post that now is not a time when you should expect many if any spontaneous erections because you're so "aware" of the phenomenon...Your description of "focusing" reminds me of when I was in a very similar situation about a year ago...I couldn't buy an erection...
. . . It freaked me out completely (these 5 words completely understate my mental condition at that time; and what makes things worse if you're in this predicament is that the more you focus, concentrate, worry, etc., about it then it becomes even more improbable that you will get an erection... a vicious unwanted cycle)...
If worried about your erection while trying to obtain one, then age is not the issue IMO...I think I realized that there is definitely something like MENTAL venous leakage...as opposed the the physical venous leakage.
...but, that's not the case anymore.
IMO, my VED usage not only made me healthier because of the blood flow, but it also helped sort of "boot-strap" my psychological state to a point where spontaneous erections were much more frequent.
CF
Can testicular or perineal(of the perineum) pain, discomfort or conditions(other than cancer) cause erectile dysfunction or affect erectile function?
What role does L-Dopamine play in improving erectile function and is it possible that eating fava beans(which are high in L-Dopamine) can improve erectile function?
snowydreams,
Look up the potential downside of Fava beans before eating them. Talk about potential side effects!
Tim
QuoteLook up the potential downside of Fava beans before eating them. Talk about potential side effects!
I have been eating them my whole life and haven't noticed any side effects and they are very high in L-Dopamine, which plays in role in improving erectile function. Combine them with chickpeas(which are high in L-Arginine) and olive oil(high in Vitamin E) and garlic(a natural vasodilator) and you got a natural Viagra.
Well I went to my uro and he got me the ring with the ved which the ved doesnt work Ive been trying it for weeks off and on the reasons why it doesnt work for me it hurts on the side where I believe the plague or damage is my veins hurt really badly and its not because im pumping too much the veins have always hurt me I dont know whats wrong with them or how I could of damaged them. The other thing that happens is my penis tightens up and goes deformed. Ive tried levitra and viagra 100mg it gets me hard but when I masterbate or anything in 5 seconds it goes down on me. Ive tried everything but traction so I went to see my uro the only decent one so far ive seen 4 and he is sending me to a peyronies disease specialist I got to wait 9 months sigh... Theres also a couple of new things popping up like my urethra is lumpy and weaker in one section I dont know if thats anything but I think I broke my penis and have urethral damage which could happen because when I masterbate and reach orgasm it drips out. Reaching orgasm is hard for me I sit there forever trying to finish alot of the times. I never get morning erections anymore like I used to all the time. Sometimes I go like 4 days without getting an erection all that happens is I get horny without an erection. I have a downward curve and a slight curve to the left. Also when im done masterbating my penis will stay slightly hard and my veins will be huge and my urethra will be larger at the bottom of it. Also I only get erections sitting down not lieing down or standing up. Im 24 years old and it really sucks. I know this post is a mess its mostly points.
Noway,
I'm sorry to hear about the setbacks. Are you on pentox? What about L-arginine? I found pentox to be helpful in reducing pain in a matter of months. When my pain was gone, erectile functioning returned to normal; a lot of this is psychological.
Good to hear you're going to a specialist. Get as much information as you can beforehand and ask questions. Write them down if you have to. The specialist may be able to shed more light on the pain and erectile issues. A nine month wait is long but it will be worth it.
One thing you might want to do is take a step back from masturbation. I know it's easy to get overly focused on the changes going on down there (I know I was) but if masturbation isn't making you feel good, why do it? Wait a few days or a week to get your mind off of it. Life isn't over at 24, even with this disease. Meantime, try exercise or a hobby.
-Skjald
Last bit of advice: it makes it hard for others to help you if we can't read your post. Try to use more punctuation and fewer run-on sentences. ;D
At this point its been like 6 years plus ive had this it seems like they will never figure out the problem and I will never have a working penis... what if they cant figure out whats wrong or cant do anything?
How can I get ahold of dr.levine and how long will it take before I can see him ? Do I need a doctors request to see him?
Ive tried everything Skjaldborg but a traction device and my problem isnt psychological at all my penis is screwed period. Masterbating takes forever because its screwed period. My penis is a mess and thats all to say about it. Urologists ive seen its either surgery or its all in my head because of my age or pills. They dont take the time to look to see whats wrong or they dont know whats wrong because there making millions of dollars and are a bunch of dummies. They found something wrong but still are too stupid to see what is wrong. Pills in my case just doesnt cut it F~@< pentox and all of them theres something wrong but when you got a bunch of dummies working together thinking about pills doing the trick and surgery not finding what the problem is then its all in your head!
Last bit of advice I have for Skjaldborg is ive tried sustaining from masterbating plenty of times when your penis is screwed you sustain 100 million times it will still be the same way. Also if you are 24 and you have problems with your penis you will understand life is pretty much over if your older than you wouldnt understand and I dont care how many run on sentences I have.
Quote from: Noway on May 02, 2010, 01:31:47 AM
How can I get ahold of dr.levine and how long will it take before I can see him ? Do I need a doctors request to see him?
You don't need a referral. Simply call the office and make an appointment. If it is your first visit they will also make an appointment for a full color doppler ultrasound as well.
http://urologyspecialists.net/ (http://urologyspecialists.net/)
Quote from: Noway on May 02, 2010, 01:40:51 AM
Ive tried everything Skjaldborg but a traction device and my problem isnt psychological at all my penis is screwed period. Masterbating takes forever because its screwed period. My penis is a mess and thats all to say about it. Urologists ive seen its either surgery or its all in my head because of my age or pills. They dont take the time to look to see whats wrong or they dont know whats wrong because there making millions of dollars and are a bunch of dummies. They found something wrong but still are too stupid to see what is wrong. Pills in my case just doesnt cut it F^@% pentox and all of them theres something wrong but when you got a bunch of dummies working together thinking about pills doing the trick and surgery not finding what the problem is then its all in your head!
Considering the content of your posts I find it very hard to believe that your erectile dysfunction is not at least partially mental if only due to the amount of stress and anxiety you seem to be under.
Get yourself properly cardio fit with regular exercise. This will calm you mentally and also help your erections.
Have you had your fasting glucose tested recently?
Why do you need to wait 9 months to see a peyronie's specialist and then buy a traction device? Just buy a traction device.
Quote from: Noway on May 02, 2010, 01:45:58 AM
Last bit of advice I have for Skjaldborg is ive tried sustaining from masterbating plenty of times when your penis is screwed you sustain 100 million times it will still be the same way. Also if you are 24 and you have problems with your penis you will understand life is pretty much over if your older than you wouldnt understand and I dont care how many run on sentences I have.
I am 31 so I know what you are going through. This is no picnic at a young age. I'm just trying to help you out here. I am not saying that this is all mental but I can see from your posts that you are angry, frustrated and feeling hopeless-and these are psychological factors. How much they affect your functioning is up to debate. Nonetheless, once you've exhausted the physical treatments for this disease (VED, pentox, viagra, etc.) you need to treat the mental part. I saw a therapist for several months and it was tremendously helpful. The person I saw had experience with marriage and family therapy as well as experience treating people who had dealt with trauma and sexual issues. If you have health insurance these visits can be had at a reasonable co-pay. If you don't have insurance, try investigating the psychology departments at local universities. On occasion they have reduced cost or free therapy provided by students in their Master's programs. It's worth a shot.
You are right, this disease messes up our young lives but as men we need to do everything we can to keep fighting. Medical treatment, exercise and mental health are all part of the equation.
Best,
Skjaldborg
This is why im so angry it is not mental for the last time theres something major wrong with it and trying all viagra,ved, then its something else causing the problems im having. Im going to wait to see if i get prescribed the traction device because I just spent 500 dollars for ved vacuum pump which did nothing for me because its so messed up. Im also not going to waste time to go and see a therapist when I know it wont do a thing because my penis is messed up what will a therapist do exactly? Im not overweight also and eat good portions.
Has anyone seen my libido lying around somewhere? I have misplaced it. I think I may have lost it after my last doctor visit.
The human endocrine system (hormones control nearly every organ) is incredibly complex. I think applying external testosterone gel (testim) the past few months has signaled my pituitary to release less of the hormone that tells my body to make it's own testosterone. The result being even less total testosterone.
I was quite shocked when I ticked off most of the symptoms from this list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypogonadism
Effects of low testosterone in men may include:
(not all are present in any single individual)
Poor libido (low sexual desire)
Fatigue (medical) always tired
Muscle loss/atrophy
Erectile Dysfunction
Increasing abdominal fat
Glucose intolerance (early diabetes)
High Cholesterol/Lipid
Poor sleep
Difficulty concentrating
Memory Loss-difficulty in choosing words in language
Depression
Anxiety
Psychological and relationship problems
Increase size of chest
Hot flushes
Decrease in growth of, or loss of, beard and body hair
Loss of bone mass (osteoporosis)
Irritability
Infertility
Shrinking of the testicles
Decrease in firmness of testicles
Frequent urination (polyuria) without infection/waking at night to urinate
Achy muscles
Night sweats
Dry skin and/or cracking nails
Instead of testosterone replacement therapy, I think the better approach may be hCG injections. This is something I will soon discuss with my urologist.
http://www.aace.com/pub/pdf/guidelines/hypogonadism.pdf
Quote from: BrooksBro on May 24, 2010, 05:25:18 AM
Has anyone seen my libido lying around somewhere? I have misplaced it. I think I may have lost it after my last doctor visit.
The human endocrine system (hormones control nearly every organ) is incredibly complex. I think applying external testosterone gel (testim) the past few months has signaled my pituitary to release less of the hormone that tells my body to make it's own testosterone. The result being even less total testosterone.
I'm pretty stunned that the doctor did not tell you this was a possibility, even a probability. Was it prescribed by a GP? or by an endocrinologist?
urologist
http://www.infertility-male.com/
http://www.vasectomy-reversals.com/llcv.htm
This is just speculation on my part. I don't have any test results, such as LH or FSH levels, to know that it is true. My last test showed estratiol (E2) to be very low. My daily topical testosterone dose was just increased from 50 to 100 mg.
Quote from: skunkworks on May 24, 2010, 09:43:12 AM
Quote from: BrooksBro on May 24, 2010, 05:25:18 AM
Has anyone seen my libido lying around somewhere? I have misplaced it. I think I may have lost it after my last doctor visit.
The human endocrine system (hormones control nearly every organ) is incredibly complex. I think applying external testosterone gel (testim) the past few months has signaled my pituitary to release less of the hormone that tells my body to make it's own testosterone. The result being even less total testosterone.
I'm pretty stunned that the doctor did not tell you this was a possibility, even a probability. Was it prescribed by a GP? or by an endocrinologist?
A few weeks of applying 100 mg Testim topical testosterone gel has made all the difference in the world! WOW! I feel NORMAL. I've not felt this good in years. I seem to concentrate better at work, my mood is WAY up. Even outside of sex, I just feel great. I have even had a few spontaneous DAYTIME erections, and several during sleep are routine. I have had a few nights when I dreamed, and I remembered them.
Feb 24 - testosterone 279, E2 <2, - started on 50 mg Testim daily
May 24 - testosterone 397 - started on 100 mg Testim daily
My wife said the latest testosterone value explains why I have been jumping her bones more lately (couple of times a week). Well, yeah, like, who else's bones would I be jumpin' but hers, anyway?
My guess is the level could be up to something around 500, or more, by the time I re-"test" in late July. What ever it is, I LIKE IT.
Brooksbro:
Now you know what controls your libido, huh? Keep it up and you can be jumping her bones for many months and years to come! (No pun intended!)
Just kidding of course, but it does help to be on the light side sometimes.
Old Man
Brooksbro,
My hormone replacement story is very similar and I really believe in HRT for men of a certain age.
I have been taking testosterone injections for some time, but had started to have a lot of problems with urination do to an enlarged prostate. I think the injections were compounding my problem, so I stopped the testosterone injections and started using a topical DHT gel which I am applying directly to my penis every morning after my VED therapy.
The DHT gel seems to accomplish the same thing as the testosterone injections, as far as erections are concerned, but I am not having the urination issues so far.
GS
Thanks for the feedback GS.
At my last visit, the urology resident mentioned testosterone injections rather than topical gel (applied to shoulders). I expressed concern about the mood swings from once or twice a week injections. That is why the docs doubled the topical dose, for now. A friend downplayed the mood swings based on the experience of some of his friends. At my next visit, I may ask to go that route, from a cost and convenience standpoint. My hope is that the injectable is less expensive than the topical gel.
My minor BPH symptoms greatly resolved after I lost 50 pounds of weight and started regular exercise. I just did not know that would lead to "adult-onset athleticism." I expect the docs will regularly monitor for prostate enlargement, PSA score, and hemoglobin level as long as I am on testosterone replacement.
I had my first intercourse using the VED and constricting ring. Creating the erection and appling the ring were less disruptive than I thought it would be. Preparing everything ahead of time and laying it off to the side was key.
When I practiced applying the largest ring that came with my VED, it was pretty uncomfortable. Encouraged by the passion of the moment, it was more tolerable in actual use.
Getting the ring off afterwards was difficult because I wiped away all the lubricating fluids. I won't do that again until after it is off.
With just one experience, I found it more convenient than high dose Viagra, because it is a lot less time-sensitive. I like the idea of being able to produce a satisfactory erection "on-demand." I also liked not losing my erection quickly after orgasm. It felt HUGE to me, but my wife is not sure that it really was (Come on, lie to me, just this once!). Because of the additional engorgement, the curve seemed more pronounced, and that made entry a little more challenging than usual.
I may look into a ring with lower tension, like the Erecaid B ring.
I am willing to try it a few more times, at least. <grin>
BB:
Welcome to the family of VED users for erections! Your experience is just about average for first time users. Suggest that you "practice" using various rings until you find the right tension for you. You need one that will hold up an erection for at least the 30 minute limit. I still use the special rings that came with my Osbon Esteem VED as they present a more comfortable restriction and give the best erection quality. In addition, they are much easier to remove after use. Strongly suggest that you use a bit more lube on the shaft prior to removing the ring(s) yes, if needed you can use more than one ring. Yes, trying to remove the retainers without lube can be a skin raising experience!!!!
These rings are still available from several web sites and also from the current maker of the Osbon VEDs - Timm Medical division of Endocare in MN. The rings cost about $20.00 plus S&H as I recall from my last order. These rings have special features that apply more pressure at a point that does the best job of holding the blood in the erectile chambers.
Another suggestion about getting entry - you might try using a different position that will allow the best angle of entry due to the curve. Takes a bit of doing sometimes, but there are so many positions to try, so do that. There are even sites on the web that give pictures of the various ones, etc.
Thanks for posting your experience and success using the VED for your sexual pleasure!!
Old Man
I bought the ved and it doesnt work for me. The reasons for this are as follows when im pumping my veins on my penis hurt and my penis goes disfigured ive read all instructions and am doing it properly.
Noway:
Sounds like you might be using too much vacuum pressure. VED therapy is a case where less is much better than more. Getting a good tight seal around the shaft is the first item in setting up an exercise session. So do the following:
Make sure that you are using plenty lubrication on your shaft as well as in the cylinders when inserting the shaft into the VED. Then make sure that you have a comfortable feeling before starting to pump the cycles.
Practice with using it before starting on the scheduled cycles.
I find that using too much pressure can and will pull the veins "out'' more than normal. This does lead to pain or discomfort with the added pressure. So, try using less pressure to see if the therapy works better for you.
Let us now if you have specific questions about the procedure. We are all here to help in any way possible.
Old Man.
The veins on my penis hurt when im not using the ved and just getting normal erections too. It doesnt matter how much pressure I use with the ved it hurts ive tried I paid 400 dollars for the thing sigh...
Quote from: Noway on June 29, 2010, 09:35:42 PM
I bought the ved and it doesnt work for me. The reasons for this are as follows when im pumping my veins on my penis hurt and my penis goes disfigured ive read all instructions and am doing it properly.
How can your penis 'go disfigured'? If you are following the protocol you should be using the A cylinder, which would not leave any space for your penis to 'go disfigured".
Noway:
Another suggestion = forget the protocol and try this: Use only the large cylinder for a while. Lube up as usual, use only the large outer sizing insert and just apply a very small amount of pressure to determine if this will allow you to do so. If there is no hurting of the veins with this, hold this mild pressure for as long as it remains comfortable. However, hold it no longer that about one or two minutes before releasing it. If this stays comfortable with no major pain, do these exercises as long as they stay comfortable, etc.
Once you have determined that this works, try putting the medium cylinder back in the VED and try doing the same procedure. IOW, try working your way back up to the point you can do the protocol according to the schedule using all three cylinders.
Hopefully, this will work for you. Remember that any exercise that you can give your penis is best for your Peyronies Disease problems. Keep us up to date on what is happening for you. Surely, there is some reason for the veins hurting, so you need to find out what is causing it. Maybe your uro can help, so check with him/her as soon as possible.
Old Man
Quote from: Noway on June 29, 2010, 09:35:42 PM
I bought the ved and it doesnt work for me. The reasons for this are as follows when im pumping my veins on my penis hurt and my penis goes disfigured ive read all instructions and am doing it properly.
Good advice from OldMan below! Can clarify what you mean by disfigured, so that we can get a better idea about what is happening?
I guess the doctor gave me the wrong cylinder I only have the cylinder with 1 tube. What I mean by disfigured is when I pump my penis goes downward tight agaist the cylinder and then the veins start to hurt. Also my penis goes really tight and doesnt look right.
I went to my uro and he got me a appointment with a peyronies disease specialist. I have to wait 9 and a half months to see him I still got 3 months and a half to go :(.
Noway:
Give us more information about the VED that your uro prescribed for you. If it is one of the "sex toy" type you make not be able to get good results from it as you state. You must have a cylinder large enough to allow full extension of your penis in length and girth at least for part of the 26 week protocol.
You can use the one cylinder protocol if the cylinder is/was large enough to allow for full extension. So, give us more information about your VED unit listing the dimensions of the cylinder, length, diameter and whether or not is a straight tube or tapered, etc.
Old Man
Its the osborn one it cost me like 400 dollars and its full tube. I did everything right and I said what goes wrong when using it. I followed all the instructions. It just doesnt work for me Ive tried a few times and in the book and it sais if you have odd shape penis do not use it and contact your doctor.
Im going to see a peyronies specialist in 3 months so I need these months to fly by. My uro said theres only a few in the world so im going to see this guy hopefully he actually got his degree not like the other uros ive seen that got there degree from the back of a cereal box.
Like when I see the urologist all they ask me if I hurt myself. I say I dont know because I dont and thats all and they dont do anything. Asking me that question all the time how will that help the problem... so what if I did hurt myself your supposed to be helping me.
I have been using one of the sex shop VED s for about 10 days. Just newly diagnosed. I am using the Jackp protocol recommended by The Old Man for a single cylinder.It is equipped with a rubber sleeve which I used up until last night. It was bothering me to look at it as the sleeve holds tight on the penis as you are pumping . It extends through the tip of the sleeve for the exercise but it worries me that it is pinched half the way up/down.
So I removed the sleeve last night and felt more comfortable as there was nothing pinching my penis as I pumped, holding for 15-20 seconds - then release.
Presuming to speak for everyone else here, few of us remember any specific event that triggered the inflammation leading to peyronies. Not being able to identify the primary injury cause is also reported by most of the peyronies condition summaries that I have read.
I agree, even if you knew, it would not change the treatment.
Quote from: Noway on July 05, 2010, 12:06:36 AM
Like when I see the urologist all they ask me if I hurt myself. I say I dont know because I dont...
In my case, I realized that I caused it from using two tight constriction rings with a VED. None of the literature with the VED cautioned about using too tight of rings or more than one at a time.
Anyway, the Peyronies Disease showed up right where I used to have the rings. So that was the trauma. I threw all the rings away and won't ever use those again. I now use the VED Protocol and the indention has gone away but I still have a curve to the left but not as bad.
Still using the VED
Quote from: hb on July 06, 2010, 10:46:04 AM
In my case, I realized that I caused it from using two tight constriction rings with a VED. None of the literature with the VED cautioned about using too tight of rings or more than one at a time.
Anyway, the Peyronies Disease showed up right where I used to have the rings. So that was the trauma. I threw all the rings away and won't ever use those again. I now use the VED Protocol and the indention has gone away but I still have a curve to the left but not as bad.
Still using the VED
It's unfortunate that such a situation came about. Many men do not realise that their penis is anything less than indestructable though, so you're not alone. If you read some of the extreme things people do on penis extention forums, you'd cringe. That you are now using the VED correctly and with positive results is an important lesson for all of those wishing to use such a treatment method. Hopefully continued use will improve your condition even more over time.
So yeah Im going to see a peyronies disease specialist in 2 months. I still have all the same problems. My problems are Having a hard time ejaculating, keeping an erection, curved penis (downward), Soreness, Pain in 1 of my vein when getting erections which is seldom I get an erection. I also have an indent in my urethra and on the left side. Ive so far tried viagra 50 mg , levitra 100 mg both didnt work they get me hard but I still cant keep the erection as soon as I touch it it starts going down. Ive tried the vacuum device many of times hasnt worked for me because It hurts too much and I bought a good one and im following the instructions to a tee. Also when I pump it stays bent and doesnt want to go straight. Also my penis lately has been tighting up alot more than usuall. Im not sure what to do now except see what the specialist has to say. I have both ed and peyronies disease so im thinking an implant but that still wont help my problem with reaching orgasm Also my urethra is messed up and my veins hurt. . Im only 24 years old and have had this for like 6 years I just want to be normal. Also my urethra is messed up and my veins hurt. So if I could get hard and stay hard maybe I will be able to reach orgasm easier. Such a mess....
Two updates.
1. I bought a lower tension ring from Timm Medical - a gray color Erecaid B. The first time I used it, my erection was less firm than with the largest ring provided with the Vitality OTC VED. I'd call it marginal. I'm willing to try it a few more times.
2. Testosterone level
Feb 24 - 279, E2 <2, - started on 50 mg Testim daily
May 24 - 397 - started on 100 mg Testim daily
July 23 - 836 - continue 100 mg Testim daily
With my testosterone now over 800, I can't say that 100 mg Viagra works for me any better than it did when my level was 400. I have a continuing fear of my erection becoming weaker during intercourse. So, I still use The Pump and a tension ring for intercourse. When pumping and wearing the ring, my confidence in maintaining a satisfactory erection is very high.
On 25mg Viagra nightly (L-arginine 2g, pycnogenol 60 mg), my night time erections continue to be frequent and firm, although not especially long lasting.
One possible side effect of testosterone replacement is an increase in sleep apnea. I've never had any symptoms of sleep apnea (wake up gasping, morning headache, etc), nor have I ever been told I snore loudly or excessively. Something is affecting my ability to sleep long enough, and my attempts to identify and treat it with OTC meds it have been unsuccessful. 5-6 hours of sleep is not nearly enough. I'm going to see a neurologist (not a pulmonologist) sleep doctor soon. It could be a circadian rhythm disturbance, such as advanced sleep phase syndrome.
Quote from: Old Man on June 26, 2010, 08:28:18 AM
Welcome to the family of VED users for erections! Your experience is just about average for first time users. Suggest that you "practice" using various rings until you find the right tension for you. You need one that will hold up an erection for at least the 30 minute limit. I still use the special rings that came with my Osbon Esteem VED as they present a more comfortable restriction and give the best erection quality.
These rings are still available from several web sites and also from the current maker of the Osbon VEDs - Timm Medical division of Endocare in MN. The rings cost about $20.00 plus S&H as I recall from my last order. These rings have special features that apply more pressure at a point that does the best job of holding the blood in the erectile chambers.
BrooksBro,
I went through the same thing with HRT and have used a C pap machine for sleep apnea for several years now. The C pap machine takes a little getting used to, but the difference in how you sleep and feel after you start using it is incredible. It was like I was a new man after I started using it.
My suggestion to anyone who snores is to have a sleep study done to find out if you have sleep apnea. It's one of the best things I ever did.
GS
Thanks GS.
I tried everything I could think of or find recommended on the internet to help me sleep. I kept a sleep diary for several weeks, took the Epworth Sleepiness Score, and went to see a certified sleep specialist (neurologist). At 5 ft 9 in, an athletic 180 lbs, 15-1/2 inch neck, and an endurance runner, I did not think I fit the typical profile of someone with sleep apnea. (It is common among current and former professional football players, especially linemen.) I thought it could be a circadian rhythm disturbance. As expected, the doc sent me for a sleep study. I had a lousy night of sleep, so I knew it was a "good" test. I was surprised that I slept two hours longer than normal. The results were I wake up a little over 30 times every hour, just into the severe category. It's obstructive sleep apnea alright.
Contributing factors could include that I still have my tonsils, chronic and untreated stuffy nose (mild allergies), and hypothyroidism (treated). A low reported side effect of testosterone replacement is sleep apnea. Adding the testosterone gel has been the only significant new medication, and I have been on it since February of this year. It could have been just enough to bring my previous unrecognized sleep apnea to the forefront.
I have a CPAP titration sleep study tonight. After months 4-6 hours of interrupted sleep nightly, I am eagerly anticipating 8+ hours of restful sleep tonight. I picked out a machine and possible mask from an insurance company contracted provider, and know what the insurance company will pay. I won't see the doc to get the results and prescription for about two weeks. :(
After getting on the CPAP (and adjusting to it), I also anticipate getting sufficient and high quality sleep will let my body begin to function more normally in many ways, mostly hormonal (testosterone, thyroid, human growth, insulin, etc). Sleep apnea could explain my high morning blood sugar and blood pressure, which were previously disgustingly normal.
I am disappointed that my urologist did not consider this as a possibility on my last visit, when I mentioned excessive daytime sleepiness to both the urology fellow and the head physician. Nor has my internal medicine doc who has been treating me for hypothyroidism more than three years. I learned there is a HUGE coincidence between hypothyroidism and obstructive sleep apnea. I can't fault the internal medicine doc too much; I saw his PA this summer and she wrote a trial Rx for Ambien, not him, and I never went back. Once again, WE have to be aggressively proactive in our own medical treatment.
I agree, if you snore and are persistently sleepy during the day, ask your doctor if it might be sleep apnea.
BrooksBro
Quote from: GS on August 11, 2010, 09:59:29 AM
BrooksBro,
I went through the same thing with HRT and have used a C pap machine for sleep apnea for several years now. The C pap machine takes a little getting used to, but the difference in how you sleep and feel after you start using it is incredible. It was like I was a new man after I started using it.
My suggestion to anyone who snores is to have a sleep study done to find out if you have sleep apnea. It's one of the best things I ever did.
GS
This pycnogenol stuff is quite impressive. Two weeks in and I no longer need viagra or low dose naltrexone for nocturnal erections. This is taking 30 mg three times daily with around 2g l-arg twice daily.
L-arg by itself never had any positive impact on morning wood.
Clarifying further in answer to a PM.
In the morning before breakfast I take around 2g l-arg mixed up in pomegranate juice, one 30mg Pycnogenol and 1g acetyl l-carnitine.
Then in the middle of the day i take another 30 mg Pycnogenol.
In the evening before bed I take the same as I did before breakfast.
This is the Pycnogenol - http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Pycnogenol-30-mg-150-Capsules/760?at=0
So im 24 years old and I do for sure know I have peyronies diease now. I went to peyronies disease specialist yesterday and he did an ultrasound and found scarring in both tubes in the bottom. So he put me on 400mg 3 times a day pentoxifylline. He will see how that goes and I have to go back in 2 months he will test my blood flow and see how that is and then take it from there.
Is pycnogenol better than L-arginine for improving ED and how does the combination of both improve ED? What is the recommended daily dosage, especially if taken with Pentox and a low-dose PDE5 inhibitor? I've read that it interacts with Viagra. Any truth to that and does pycnogenol or L-arginine interact with Pentox or any of the PDE5 inhibitors? Is the L-arginine found in foods as effective as the pill form and what foods have the highest levels of it?
Pycnogenol and L-Arginine combined is sometimes known as Prelox. There have been a few prelox studies:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17703218
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12851125
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20184576
One or two of the studies include doseage information, though I don't suppose anything is set in stone. Pycnogenol is unfortunately quite expesnive, but the combo does appear to be useful. If it doesn't make a big enough difference, there's always viagra and the like. I wouldn't rule out using both strategies at once if I was at a stage where I felt that I needed to.
viagra,levitra and the penis pump didnt work for me ive just started using pentox and im already noticeing improvements and they say it takes like 5-6 months to work so hopefully the scarring goes down.
I buy my pyncogenol at trader joes and it's a lot cheaper than any where else that I've seen.
I do have peyronies disease but my erections are pretty straight right now but Im impotent. My uro sais its from the scarring that its screwing up the blood flow. The thing thats weird is if i masterbate which takes me forever the first time if I get an erection the second time then its disfigured sigh.
What is the recommended dosage for Trazadone and Naltrexone and how soon can you notice an effect?
Why is it important to get nocturnal/mornings erections if one has Peyronie's? What benefit does it have?
Snowydreams
It is very important to keep your penis healthy.It is a normal occurrence and should be maintained.I believe atrophy could set in rendering the penis useless and week. So if your not having them find a way to have some, get on cialis or somthing.Also a ved will keap your penis healthy.
Fubar
December 14th I went to a peyronies disease specialist where he stuck a needle in my penis to give me an erection so he can check the blood flow which was really good. Ive also been taking pentox 400mg three times a day for only 2 months and notice major results. The doctor also checked the stability of my penis while it was hard and he thinks knock on wood with more pentox it will cure my peyronies. My erections lately are really straight and alot more sensitive and fuller. Ive noticed huge results from pentox when I take the pill I eat a big meal beforehand it seems to be working really well. Now the doctor wants me to keep taking the pentox for 6 months and we will do a follow up. Anyone who has peyronies disease get on pentox because ive had peyronies for 6 years around and pentox is helping alot even after having it this long. I also want to say with taking the pentox I now get morning erections which are straight and good which I havent had for 6 years or so.
Comebackid awhile back told me to get on pentox right away but I was skeptical because before I seen the peyronies disease specialist I seen another urologist who was supposed to be the best. This uro though said no medication and nothing will work for peyronies diease but surgery. Im glad I didnt get surgery and found the doctor im seeing now. Now seeing how good pentox works everyone with peyronies should be on it and urologist need to do more research....
Noway - That's great news. Pentox should be the first port of call for peyronie's diseass sufferers I think. I think it people with very early stage peyronie's got on it, they'd often limit the progress of the disease right away.
newguy I will keep posting my results and see what happens in six months to check if my plague went down. Also to see if the pentox is still working well.
Any info on topical gels or creams for ED?
Ive been taking pentox 400 mg for around 3 months now and my erections are pretty straight and im getting alot more erections,harder erections and bigger erections. I can also finally ejaculated and hold an erection. I recommend pentox to everyone if you have erectile dysfuntion or peyronies disease. It works better than viagra.
Quote from: Noway on February 10, 2011, 11:39:41 PM
Ive been taking pentox 400 mg for around 3 months now and my erections are pretty straight and im getting alot more erections,harder erections and bigger erections. I can also finally ejaculated and hold an erection. I recommend pentox to everyone if you have erectile dysfuntion or peyronies disease. It works better than viagra.
Pentox also increases sperm motility, so if you're trying to get your wife pregnant, pentox may help.
Its still not 100% perfect im still running into problems but its at least improving.
Synopsis: It would be difficult to become fully erect and I started to lose my erections shortly after starting intercourse(During this whole time my morning erections were either non-existent or very limp). Even masturbation would achieve only mild erections. Then about a month after I started to use Vitamin E, L-arginine, and Vitamin B, a few days after I experienced stronger erections but there was some pain, then about another 4 or 5 days later I still felt a pain and noticed that the erection would be fuller at the base and then almost halfway down the shaft it would seem to go limp. Then shortly after I felt a bit more pain in my penis/groin area that was there even when I did not have an erection, but I started to have morning erections again and they seemed a bit stronger, a few days later they were stronger still. I stopped taking L-arginine and just take Vitamin B and E and it has now been about two months and I can get fully hard erections, they still don't seem to last as long as they used to but I am not having sex with a girl on a regular basis (being single at the moment). Really not sure what it could have been or still is. Maybe a blood clot?
Here is some important background info:
Back in October I had a fungus (jock itch) on the head of my penis (not circumcised) and I used a topical cream canesten which uses clotrimazole (when I checked online there were no ED side effects for it but a similar antifungal is actually given to post penile surgery patients to prevent erections) as the medical ingredient. I used it for a month and the fungal infection cleared up. Then towards the end of November/beginning of December I met someone and had sex but the erections were not hard enough to last too long, the casual relationship ended and I was worried because of the poor erections. Then I remembered that about 10 years ago I had a similar fungal infection and for about a month after I used the topical cream I could not get erections (I think this must be a side effect) so I thought it would go away within a month
In January I met another girl and had sex again with consistent mediocre erections. The moment I would put a condom on the erection would start to go down to the point that having sex with a partner would be impossible within a few minutes. I started to think that maybe I had ED. Looked it up online and feared that maybe at 39 I had some heart disease, then I noticed that Peyronie's can also cause ED. Changed my diet, cutting out almost all sugars and sweets and even red meats. Now I do eat red mets since I find my sex drive goes down when I don't.
That's when I started to take L-arginine and Vitamin B and E. At this point I am really not sure what it could be, it seems to be getting better. My morning erections are very strong now and if I masturbate those erections a not always rock hard but most of the time they are, but I have been a bit scared to try having sex with a girl again for fear of the same thing happening.
I did go through a divorce about a year ago maybe there is some physiological issue too.
Any help would be appreciated.
First off, Just having ED symptoms does not mean you have Peyronies Disease. They are not necessarily, and you would see other Peyronies Disease symptoms first.
So, worrying about getting an erections can be some of the problem. And sounds as if you have had to face some tough life issues during this time as well.
My advice would be too see a urologist, and try some Viagra or Ciallis samples. You might be surprised that taking a little from time to time might just give you the boost you need. I know it has helped me, and I wish I had lowered my pride years ago and tried this sooner. I also went for several years with a "less than perfect" erection. But wasn't willing to admit the dreaded "dysfunction" word. Little would I know this would be the least of my problems in later years.
Stay positive.
Three months after stopping 100 mg topical testosterone gel (Testim) daily, I started with 200 mg testosterone injection. A few days after my first weekly injection, I had an erection with 100 mg viagra sufficient for satisfying sex. Mid-morning after my second injection, I had a spontaneous erection while not doing anything in particular. LIKE! So far, the injectable testosterone seems more effective than the topical ever was.
One of the physicians I saw prior to starting the injectable, said I may be more satisfied with a lower testosterone level than trying to achieve the upper range. He said I may also avoid some of the side effects (man boobs was one). On 100 mg topical daily, my testosterone was in the 700-800 range. Three months after stopping it, 240s.
The night of my second injection was very fitful for me, and I was very sleepy the following day. To me, this suggested getting the injection early in the day may be a better choice. I have noticed a slight increase in my early morning heart rate. While not on testosterone, my resting heart rate was in the upper 50s (runner). Since starting, it is closer to 70.
I was pleased to learn I did not have an elevated prolactin level. Cholesterol numbers were perfect, the best I have ever seen.
My mood has improved sufficient that I have resumed both traction and VED therapy, morning runs and evening weight workouts. So, this is what normal feels like.
What is the cause of your low testosterone levels in the first place?
What is your general health and weight like?
brooksbro
I have been on testosterone for over 15 years. Like you I started on the gels and switched later to shots. The shots do a much better job.
After my second injection I said "Wow of cure for ED." I hate to bust your bubble but it was not. After a few weeks all the benefits of TRT remained but the ED returned. I get shots every 10 days. It was explained to me that once your brain sees the new spike in testosterone it adjust your testicle output down.
Jackp
The medical diagosis is hypogonadism.
Three years ago, I was obese (body fat >30%), had high blood pressure and high cholesterol. Through diet and exercise, I now have normal blood pressure (120/70) without medication, outstanding cholesterol values, weight of 168 (lost 60 lbs), and body fat of 17%. I am on a low dose oral med for hypothyroidism, started about two years before the hypogonadism was diagnosed. Unfortunately, the exercise led to
"adult onset athleticism" for which there is no cure, only treatment, which is to keep on running.
HAWK: I saw similar results to you with the gel, a decline in erection frequency and strength after the first few weeks, both at 50 mg and 100 mg doses, even though my measured testosterone went way up. I just want to feel "normal." Right now, mentally and physically, I feel better than I can ever remember when on the gel. The weekly shots are a lot less nuisance than the daily gel applications.
Quote from: skunkworks on March 21, 2011, 02:55:01 AM
What is the cause of your low testosterone levels in the first place?
What is your general health and weight like?
Yes, Sildenafil Citrate does works well. It is even available in the forms of oral chews, gel and particular Sildenafil Citrate Pink 100MG (For Females). You can get sildenafil pills from XXXXXXXXXXXX. This medication relaxes muscles in the penis and increases blood flow in it. Achieve longer.
Ammyidim
SPAM
Is the erectile dysfunction associated with Peyronie's worse than "regular" ED, especially considering that Peyronie's tends to be a progressive disease?
Quote from: snowydreams on July 11, 2011, 05:35:40 PM
Is the erectile dysfunction associated with Peyronie's worse than "regular" ED, especially considering that Peyronie's tends to be a progressive disease?
Interesting question.
It almost requires some dialog on a definition of ED, as strange as that may seem. I've spoken to some men who think ED means the total inability to achieve an erection. In fact ED refers to ANYTHING that is less then a 100% firm erection. So this means that men can actually have some symptoms of ED, but refuse to acknowledge this as they think as long as they can get it up pretty well that this is still OK.
Some guys get ED from Peyronies, some don't. So I think ED by any means is ED. And it isn't any better or worse if caused by Peyronies, prostate cancer, or anything else. ED is ED and you need to treat it as such.
Just my .02
Les:
I totally agree with your position on ED. It is what it is and makes no matter what caused it. It can be a medical problem or a mechanical problem caused by an injury.
Diabetes is one of the worst problems that causes ED. Venour leakage comes in my books as second place and so on down the line of problems associated with causes of ED.
Just my 2 cents also.
Old Man
Snowy
I developed Ed prior to Peyronie's from medication.Then after it does seem to be worse.Cialis seems to mask the problem.Therapy ie ved and traction do seem to help the situation.
Probably changing diet and exercising will help the condition.Looking at your medications may be in order.Me I'm stuck with the medications because of health issuses.You would not know it by looking at me because I am fit.
I have to say the beginning with Ed was the worst and then came the monster.You have to do what ever you can to maintain an erection.I know it is not fun especially with Peyronie's. This whole thing takes work and feels like a second job.
Hang in there: fubar
Im on cialis once a day and pentox too..... I took viagra and levitra and cialis works better then both of them by far.
My ed began about 3 years ago. I was smoking mini cigars and inhaling them(i think this is what caused my ed). After a few months I felt some sharp pains in my penis, some days (not all the time). Then after a few weeks It looked like my penis twisted a little bit. Then about 1 month later I could not keep an erection. I can get an erection easily, but I cannot keep it up. I am looking for a solution but do not want to take viagra or any of the relating pills. Do you know why I have this problem? Please do not say stress or anything, im not stressed, I have money and I work from home in a lucrative field. This may be venous leak or something. I need help this is really hurting me.
Im in my mid 20s
had ed for 3 years now
Should I c someone who specializes in endocrinology? Hormone treatment? I am so sick and tired of urologist, I was going to c a "big time" uro in san diego and they said that they charge $500 for a consultation(not covered by insurance) and I had to put my card on file in case I cancel, they will charge me $75! Is this a business? I cannot believe this, I am so FED UP!
John - Man, I was stationed in Camp Pendleton and I know about all the glamour in CA. I suggest that you fly to Chicago or Nashville and see A Urologist that specializes in ED and/or Peyronies Disease, as well as Sexual Functional Diseases.
I'm not sure the mini cigars caused the problem. I have been reading about Peyronies Disease for four years and and you are the first one that I have come across with a cigar problem. Sounds like you could be in the early stages of Peyronies Disease, if so, you need to see a "good" doctor ASAP. If you do not treat this disease, a slight twist will most likely be a minor problem. I had a slight bend to begin with and by the time I was implanted, when I looked down at my dick it was in the shape of a 7. Vaginas don't accommodate that kind of nonsense :o My German Shepherd, Rocky, was making out better with his mate, Reba, than I was with my wife of 23 years.
This Forum has enough, solid, factual, and reliable information to keep you reading for a long time. Read everyday and read every thread posted. Somehow, some way, find a Doctor who will prescribe Pentoxifylline (Trental, Pentox) immediately. You could also begin taking OTC L-Arginine and Ubiquinol. I don't know a doctor in CA, however, someone will give you the name of someone out there. There are some Peyronies Disease pros that are members of this forum and they can help you. You are not in this by yourself and you will not go unnoticed!
Whatever you do, DON'T DO NOTHING, Move out!
Semper Fi
john100
Hey I saw that 'big time' Uro in San Diego. His practice is part of the testing for Ziaflex, but I wouldn't recommend him for Peyronies. He just told me mine was stable, and said there was nothing I could do. Not worth the $ really.
You mentioned you work from home. If you sit behind a computer all day, perhaps look into sitting as a possible cause of your problem. I noticed I have worse ED when I have been sitting at a desk for days than when I am out walking around and out of the office... Just a thought.
SSMithe
QuoteInteresting question.
It almost requires some dialog on a definition of ED, as strange as that may seem. I've spoken to some men who think ED means the total inability to achieve an erection. In fact ED refers to ANYTHING that is less then a 100% firm erection. So this means that men can actually have some symptoms of ED, but refuse to acknowledge this as they think as long as they can get it up pretty well that this is still OK.
Some guys get ED from Peyronies, some don't. So I think ED by any means is ED. And it isn't any better or worse if caused by Peyronies, prostate cancer, or anything else. ED is ED and you need to treat it as such.
Just my .02
But isn't the ED associated with Peyronie's worse because Peyronie's tends to be a degenerative condition and there is sometimes, irreversible structural changes in the penis which can affect rigidity and strength of erection, while ED for example, which is caused by vascular insufficiency without Peyronie's, is much more likely to be stable and respond to PDE5 meds, and some of the members have mentioned that even PDE5's aren't as effective as they should be.
Quote from: snowydreams on July 17, 2011, 03:23:40 PM
But isn't the ED associated with Peyronie's worse because Peyronie's tends to be a degenerative condition and there is sometimes, irreversible structural changes in the penis which can affect rigidity and strength of erection, while ED for example, which is caused by vascular insufficiency without Peyronie's, is much more likely to be stable and respond to PDE5 meds, and some of the members have mentioned that even PDE5's aren't as effective as they should be.
No, I disagree. ED is not directly associated with Peyronies. I've stated many times that men can start to develop ED due to other reasons. And this "weakened" erection makes one more prone to trauma, which can trigger Peyronies. Also, the scaring or plaque caused by Peyronies Disease forms on the Tunica. And the blood vessels for an erection come directly from the pelvis into the corpora chambers. I've read where some on the forum believe that plaque on the Tunica "blocks" blood flow for an erection. And this just isn't the case.
I think any ED associated with Peyronies is just as likely to respond to PDE5 inhibitors. It is the ED caused by other mechanisms that is much more difficult to treat. e.g. penile fracture, venous leakage, prostate cancer, etc.
Note to all:
Adding to les' post below with regard to ED and the tunica. Plaque forms inside the tunica "shell" as well as on the outside. When it forms the effect is like this example: Take a fairly large balloon and before it is blown up, place a piece of tape on one side of the main portion. Blow it up by whatever means, gas from a cylinder or by mouth and when it is inflated, the tape keeps that portion from expanding at same rate along with the other portions. Thus the balloon draws a different shape due to the restriction of the tape.
This same effect is caused in or on ones penis/tunica due to the restriction caused by the plaque or scar tissue. This condition may or may not effect ones libido based on their ability to deal with adverse conditions of how their penis looks and sexual sexual prowess. However, the main cause of ED effected by Peyronies Disease is due to the anxiety or depression caused by the malfunction of ones penis structure. The looks of it being bent, hourglass effect and other defects brought on by Peyronies Disease greatly affects ones feeling about the condition. This is one of the main causes of ED in men with Peyronies Disease rather than other causes.
Many medical conditions can and will cause temporary as well as chronic ED. Some of these are diabetes, venous leakage, heart medications, respiratory disease medications and others.
So, bottom line, ED has to be investigated to determine the actual cause and apply any corrective measures that are indicated based on the findings, etc.
Old Man
QuoteNo, I disagree. ED is not directly associated with Peyronies. I've stated many times that men can start to develop ED due to other reasons. And this "weakened" erection makes one more prone to trauma, which can trigger Peyronies. Also, the scaring or plaque caused by Peyronies Disease forms on the Tunica. And the blood vessels for an erection come directly from the pelvis into the corpora chambers. I've read where some on the forum believe that plaque on the Tunica "blocks" blood flow for an erection. And this just isn't the case.
I think any ED associated with Peyronies is just as likely to respond to PDE5 inhibitors. It is the ED caused by other mechanisms that is much more difficult to treat. e.g. penile fracture, venous leakage, prostate cancer, etc.
In Dr. Lue's and other doctors overview of Peyronie's, they mentioned several vascular causes of ED associated with Peyronie's related to the structural changes and defects. This in addition that Peyronie's in alot of men, isn't a stable condition. The conditions other than venous leakage, which I see no reason why it won't generally respond to PDE5's, such as penile fracture which has some similarity to Peyronies Disease or the ED associated with prostrate cancer which has a neurological basis. I presume most men would rather have venous leakage than Peyronies Disease which is much worse and unstable.
QuoteNote to all:
Adding to les' post below with regard to ED and the tunica. Plaque forms inside the tunica "shell" as well as on the outside. When it forms the effect is like this example: Take a fairly large balloon and before it is blown up, place a piece of tape on one side of the main portion. Blow it up by whatever means, gas from a cylinder or by mouth and when it is inflated, the tape keeps that portion from expanding at same rate along with the other portions. Thus the balloon draws a different shape due to the restriction of the tape.
This same effect is caused in or on ones penis/tunica due to the restriction caused by the plaque or scar tissue. This condition may or may not effect ones libido based on their ability to deal with adverse conditions of how their penis looks and sexual sexual prowess. However, the main cause of ED effected by Peyronies Disease is due to the anxiety or depression caused by the malfunction of ones penis structure. The looks of it being bent, hourglass effect and other defects brought on by Peyronies Disease greatly affects ones feeling about the condition. This is one of the main causes of ED in men with Peyronies Disease rather than other causes.
Many medical conditions can and will cause temporary as well as chronic ED. Some of these are diabetes, venous leakage, heart medications, respiratory disease medications and others.
So, bottom line, ED has to be investigated to determine the actual cause and apply any corrective measures that are indicated based on the findings, etc.
The psychological role in ED with Peyronie's is relevant, but Dr. Lue mentioned several vascular causes of ED related to Peyronie's in his overview, and he mentions the physiological causes of ED before the psychological causes.
I'm not sure if this is the best place to stick this post, but: I think a lot of my current problems revolve around low to moderate ED, so I have been trying to treat that. I have started a few things, L-Arginine and Pycnogenol seem to be helping. I added Horny Goat Weed and that seems to really help too (not sure if it is specifically the HGW... I have been taking some L-Arginine for a short while but added in the Pycnogenol at the same time as the HGW... whether it's 1,2, or all of them, things are pretty good at the moment).
My question is whether Horny Goat Weed remains effective when taken over a period of time, or does the effect drop off? Is it something that you should/can take continually, or is it more of a take-as-needed kind of thing? I think I read George999 say the effects are cumulative (in the Highlights of Oral Treatments sticky) but haven't found much else about that. Does anyone take it indefinitely? Apologies if this has been answered, it's just hard to find the answer.
I have the 500 mg (with 300 mg Maca) capsules from Puritan's Pride and was planning on taking two a day but the directions on the bottle say take two twice a day, so that is what I have been doing the past few days. I may drop the dosage down to two a day to make my supply last a little longer.
EDIT: After searching on this forum I starting searching elsewhere on the net and haven't found satisfactory info yet. I have found a few places that cautioned against using the herb alone without others to balance the side effects (these comments were mostly from a Chinese medical standpoint and mentioned irritability, the body heating up, etc - not sure what other herbs in particular can be that balance) and against using it long-term. I'm liking the benefits at the moment but will probably drop my dosage down and find out more about taking it long-term.
Swolf,
I am a skeptic when it comes to Chinese medicine and certain herbs/supplements can interact with other medications. If you are having ED problems, I suggest getting a prescription for low-dose cialis. In addition to helping ED, drugs in the viagra and cialis family help stop TGF-Beta, a chemical involved with creating scar tissue and inflammation. Best of luck.
-Skjaldborg
Quote from: Skjaldborg on April 02, 2012, 10:43:01 PM
I am a skeptic when it comes to Chinese medicine
I'm not a skeptic at all, but I'm also refraining from referring to it too much because I realize others are.
Quote from: Skjaldborg on April 02, 2012, 10:43:01 PMIf you are having ED problems, I suggest getting a prescription for low-dose cialis.
I've been put off by the cost, being fairly cash-strapped at the moment, but I will look into it. For the time being I have a supply of HGW/Maca and will see how that goes, but I have a feeling it's not something you can take for a super long time. I'm definitely not going to keep up the dosage recommended on the bottle at least.
I will jump in because I am living now in the Far East, the source of allmost all those herbal remedies (Maca is from Peru, not from here).
I am coming across those male (and women) sex drive, penis enlargement and who know what else herbal enhancement products almost every day.
I will give a small example:
The Pasak Bumi is sold word wide as a "proved male sex drive enhancer and penis enlargement" products. You supposed to consume them for a long period to be effective (and spend $$$ on them).
I try to find a source to buy it here. I didn't find. Maybe the product is just for reach western man that have a "lot of money"? I don't know.
From my own experience, there are herbal remedies that does work on me and others I know. For example a Chinese tea that eliminated completely my migraines that I was suffering from the age of 12 (I am 64) or other Chinese herbs that dissolved my kidney and bladder stones (tested with ultrasound before and after).
But again, I used them after I had testimonies of people I know personally and not testimonies from a marketing site.
James
My ED started before I knew I had Peyronie's - or at least before I KNEW it was Peyronie's. I discovered 2 lumps one morning and that night I couldn't get a proper erection. It took me a couple of weeks research before I realised that it was possibly Peyronie's that I had. What confused me was that I had no bending at all (that didn't appear until almost a year later. This was 3 years ago BTW. I've never had any pain.
What suprises me is that I get a firmer night erection than any other time. I realise that there is a phsycological component to Peyronie's and sex in general but this seems odd to me.
Any ideas anyone?
So an update im on Cialis and pentox still which its up in the air I still have ed but Cialis is far better than Viagra and Levitra and I like the convience of the 5mg once a day instead of taking it and waiting. I will be seeing the doctor around a month from now which I will probably be starting some verapamil injections.
If you still have ED how is Cialis better?
I could not take the stuff. It felt like a mule kicked me in the kidneys the day after a large dose. I much prefer Levitra because fat and food in general does not interfere with absorption.
I still had ed with Viagra and with Cialis my erections are better and firmer. Also I take the 5 mg once a day which I like better than taking something before sex its ready when you are with Cialis. I haven't had any side effects with Cialis except my nose gets stuffy which it isn't a big deal.
Jackisback ; Any update bro?