Hi All.
We have been told my partner has peyronies, 20 degree curve with pain, had this for approx 4 months, there is plaque build up (scarring) that can be felt.
Private Urology Doc in the UK has prescribed Tamoxifen with a 3 month follow up, we will start the medication next week.
In the opinion of the group here, please can you advise if this sounds like a good first step? I know Pentox seems the better drug, so was wondering if we should push for this instead? My partner has an auto immune disease anyway, and is on Celebrex for this.
Perhaps we should try the Tamoxifen for 3 months and go from there with the Pentox? I have all the pentox research printed off already, so can show this to the Urologist in 3 months.
Anyone used tamoxifen to good effect?
Finally, if, as the urologist says, that he sees 2 cases a week, why is there such silence on Peyronies in general? Are there just millions of sufferers who get better and don't seek this site? Or is it that men are just very reluctant to seek help 'on line' and discuss this? Just interested as the number of patients seems to far outweigh the information.
Thank you for all your support. Any opinions or advice is really welcome.
Kind regards for now.
R
Rachel,
I have never used Tamoxifen, but based on everything I've read, Pentox is going to be the better option. I've been taking Pentox for 18 months now and have had no progression of my condition. I also take a lot of supplements trying to keep progression in check and I started using the VED therapy a couple of months ago. Keeping the Peyronies curvature and pain stable is a big part of the battle.
As to the amount of information available, once you start researching Peyronies, you will find a lot of information; you just won't find a cure for it. There are a lot of websites trying to sell you everything under the sun and you can waste a lot of time and money chasing something to cure your partner.
My advice is to read as much as you can of all the info on our website and forum; then you can formulate your own opinions and we can all hope for a cure together.
GS
Tamoxifen is the NHS drug for Peyronie's. I believe this policy is based on a study by David Ralph at UCHL who is the primary Peyronie's "expert" in the UK and sets the agenda on this disease. There is no strong evidence for Tamoxifen that I could find. I did however get a private prescription from David Ralph for Pentox.
Hi Rachel,
I too saw much benefit from pentox. It helped reduce my pain significantly in about 4 months and the pain was gone at 6 months on the drug. It does have some side effects such as nausea, stomach upset and some here on the forum have reported sleep disturbances (the chemical structure of the drug is very similar to caffeine). If I were in your situation, I would ask the urologist if I could try pentox for 6 months and see how it goes. It is an inexpensive drug and has relatively few and only minor side effects.
Best,
Skjald
Thank you all for your kind words and advice.
So, we have a new appointment Monday with the same chap... I am armed with the 2 studies and with the knowledge that 'the best specialists in this field in the US prescribe Pentox over Tamoxifen etc' so this Urologist in the UK should take note. The urologist know little but at least he is sympathetic.
We have private insurance, but in the UK Pentox is not health service approved so will have to pay, but if it works... or has a better chance of working then thats great!
From what I can glean, it may be better to start on perhaps just one tablet a day and ramp it up over a few weeks if the 'patient' has a sensitive stomach - opinions please.
We get married next weekend... timing eh. ???
My man is staying positive, though we fear the bend is worsening, and it feels like there is tissue build up... how can one tell if this is calcified or hardening?
Any comments or spare energy and good thoughts out there... fire them our way for next week!
Thank you all for listening, its a great source of help knowing I can talk to you.
Rx
Hi Rachel,
On your future husband starting pentox, it might be better to start at the dose recommended by the Urologist and then ramp down if needed. For Peyronie's the recommended daily dose is 1200 mg (usually qty three 400 mg pills taken three times daily). An Iranian study showed that pentox could also be effective at just 800 mg per day, so that can be an option if the full dose is uncomfortable.
I was on pentox for 8 months and I did notice some stomach discomfort if I didn't take it with meals or if I took it too late at night. On occasion I took less than the full dose if I had to do something where stomach discomfort would not be an option (traveling, etc.).
The drug does have some side effects, but it really helped knock out the inflammation and pain. In 3 months 75% of my pain was gone and I was feeling very close to normal.
Best of luck,
_Skjald
I've tried trental , but want something better, doing some research I have heard of this neprinol which has some special silk worm enszymes in it which apparently eat the fibrosis away?
Sounds to good to be true , but it does have an extra ingredient in it that trental doesn't and also thins the blood same as trental
can't do any harm, I heard neprinol is used for cystic fibrosis if it can help them it must do something in removing the fibrosis, I just wonder if it removes it ubruptley or takes it's time.
Input on this drug from others appreciated
Trental, Acetyl L Carnitine and Coenzyme Q10 have published research studies that demonstrates their effectiveness.
Trental:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20458801 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20458801)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20384945 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20384945)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20367772 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20367772)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19863517 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19863517)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16470210 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16470210)
Acetyl L Carnitine:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11446848 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11446848)
Coenzyme Q 10:
http://www.nature.com/ijir/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ijir201020a.html (http://www.nature.com/ijir/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ijir201020a.html)
Neprinol might work for some people. I took Neprenol for months and got nowhere with it. I got much benefit from ALC. Pentox is working great for me and I have had coffee and even tea which is supposed to be a problem with Trental/Pentox, but I have had no problems at all. Watch out though because Theophylline which is contained in tea and chocolate can cause heart problems when combined with Pentox. Now I am taking Coenzyme Q10 along with Pentox and am seeing significant progressive improvement in my condition with less pain and deformity. I did eventually get a negative reaction with Acetyl L Carnitine, so I am not taking that anymore. ANYTHING, including Neprinol can cause a negative reaction. In fact there are warnings out about Neprinol because some people have choked while trying to swallow a pill and have gotten some of the Neprinol in their lungs in the process and suffered severe lung damage as a result. That doesn't mean not to use Neprinol. It just means that everything carries some degree of risk and different people react differently to different meds and sups. But at this point I am not going to pay big money for something like Neprinol that has no supporting research behind it when there are options out there with supporting research. - George
I bought 1 bottle (300 capsules) and it didn't do squat :( .
I'm new to this forum, actually, talking about this dreaded "disease" is a new thing for me. From all I have read and tried, there doesn't seem to be much hope out there either. I can't believe there isn't a cure or proven treatment for peyronies... I'm from Australia and was told by the Dr. that there is no real treatment other than surgery. He suggested I try vitamin E capsules or pay him $15k to chop into my penis :-\ Seriously, its almost like the damn disease is harder to get rid of then cancer... HELP US medicine men (& women) sigh!!!
P.S. Sorry to vent here guys. I have no money to keep trying new things thou (flat out even paying the cost of living). All I can do is keep reading & researching, hoping that the silver bullet will soon be found. In the mean time I think the curve is getting worse. Starting to twist a little too. If there are any Australians who have had success in treating this curse, I would really appreciate a pointer in right direction (as in who is the doctor I should be contacting).
Pez.
There may be other Austrailians on the forum, but I don't recall any suggested doctors there. We'll see if anyone else posts with a recommendation.
Depending on your degree of curvature, you may want to consider a VED. Even a cheap one would be better than doing nothing.
Has anyone taken Neprinol and Pentox at the same time? There aren't any bad interactions the two drugs would have together that anyone know of do they?
SSmithe
pez - see dr malouf - st george hospital in nsw - he is tops and will start you on pentox
There are an ever increasing number of websites out there pushing Neprinol as a treatment for Peyronie's even though there is no reputable scientific data supporting its use. I have yet to see ONE independent research study showing Neprinol to be effective in treating Peyronie's. But Neprinol IS very effective in lining the pockets of those who are pushing it. It is very expensive and there is almost certainly a large markup on it in most cases.
DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME AND MONEY ON NEPRINOL!
The really sad part about this whole thing is that there are guys out there wasting their time and money on Neprinol when they could be using strategies that actually are known to work.
DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME AND MONEY ON NEPRINOL!
The VED WORKS. There are a NUMBER of guys on this forum that will vouch for it being effective. And these are guys that I have come to know over a period of years on this forum. They are not astroturfers just dropping in to push a product. They are real people and they ARE getting results.
DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME AND MONEY ON NEPRINOL!
Pentoxifylline WORKS. There are a number of papers by Peyronie's experts and one very well done INDEPENDENT research study attesting to its effectiveness and it is a whole lot less expensive than Neprinol. And there are a number of us here who will vouch for its effectiveness as well.
DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME AND MONEY ON NEPRINOL!
Ubiquinol also WORKS. There is a very well done INDEPENDENT study demonstrating it to be effective in the treatment of Peyronie's. And a small but increasing number of us here are finding it to be effective. Its expensive, but it works.
DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME AND MONEY ON NEPRINOL!
I could also add traction, acetyl l carnitine and number of other lesser treatments that have some degree of evidence as to being helpful in dealing with Peyronie's. But there is absolutely zero solid evidence for Neprinol. Ads that state that Neprinol works for Peyronie's are a scam. Don't get taken for a ride. Use something that will actually make you better, not something that will just empty your pocket.
Quote from: George999 on November 18, 2010, 06:26:10 PM
There are an ever increasing number of websites out there pushing Neprinol as a treatment for Peyronie's even though there is no reputable scientific data supporting its use. I have yet to see ONE independent research study showing Neprinol to be effective in treating Peyronie's.
There will almost certainly never be a study of the effect of Neprinol on Peyronies Disease. But that's okay, since one can infer plenty from bioassays of individual systemic enzymes. Good science backs the application of proteases to a condition such as Peyronies Disease. Maybe fibrinolases, too. Remember that even Xiaflex is an injectable collagenase (collagen-dismantling enzymatic protein).
Even so, I don't recommend Neprinol, either. After taking two or three bottles of the stuff, I found dosing dosing enzymes individually to be more cost-effective. I distrust Arthur Andrew Medical for declining to publish the dosages of each of the ingredients in Neprinol. The enzyme assay units they use aren't terribly useful or meaningful.
A word of caution: A person may be allergic to one or more of these common enzymatic proteins without realizing it. (This happened to me.) For that reason, I feel that the prudent thing to do is find a doctor who will order an IgG food allergy panel. These panels won't test for the more exotic enzymes serrapeptase and nattokinase, but a person can certainly get one that covers bromelain (pineapple) and papain (papaya), and various citrus fruits.
Even if the first panel clears you of pineapple, papaya, gooseberry, and citrus allergies, it's ideal to order another IgG panel after taking the enzymes for several weeks, to see whether one's body has started making antibodies in response to the large numbers of these proteins.
As I stated in my previous post. We now have products with research behind them. I used to experiment with a lot of stuff that *might* work before we had products available backed by research studies. Now I use the stuff with the research behind it. I you want to add enzymes to that, thats not a problem, they won't hurt you. But I wouldn't waste my time on something that seems like it should work when you have products that are KNOWN to work. - George
I'm with George on this one. I tend to stick with supplements and drugs that have the most evidence behind them. That's not to say that others have the wrong approach, more that if they do take neprinol and the like, it shouldn't be 'instead of' options with a proven track record (or as close as we have to that).
Hi All,
I wanted to share some information I discovered. There was a Hopkins newsletter published (you can find it by using this Google search term: brady urological institute winter 2011) saying that Irbesartan can help with tissue scarring after prostate surgery. I've done some research online that says it has some fibrosis regression properties in other organs. The drug seems to have minimal side effects, so I ordered some online to try it out. I'm going to use 75mg a day for a month or two and see if it does anything. That's in addition to VED therapy. The brand name is Avapro. It's in the blood pressure category (funny that Verapamil is as well) but works differently. Do your own research on the drug. I'll update this post with any results (good, neutral, or bad).
Avapro is an angiotensin receptor blocker. Angiotensin receptor blockers (ARBs) and angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors (ACE Inhibitors) have interesting qualities in regards to scar tissue. They are both known to prevent and provide therapeutic benefits regarding multiple sclerosis. So what you have discovered is not surprising. They may provide some minor benefit in terms of Peyronie's. But be sure to keep track of your blood pressure. Taking it down to low can cause problems. - George
Thanks for the write up. I will be monitoring my BP. With this f'~c<+d up disease, I'm willing to try something that is reasonably safe and non-invasive.
This is an interesting post. I had been on 300MG of Avapro for years and stopped it suddenly in 2007 after insurance changes. About a month later I started to notice some of the first signs/pain with erection. I haven't really connected the two events until now some 3 1/2 years later. I am going to start on it again. I am not very optimistic however. After this long I have significant narrowing and upward bend. I'll keep you posted.
Rick
Please do let us know how this works out for you. Thanks!
I'm glad to see some responses. rdphil, that is interesting. I wonder if Avapro was preventing you from getting full blown Peyronies. Perhaps stopping it cause it to progress. Do you remember any injuries that took place? Were you taking Glucosamine/Chondroiten by any chance? The reason I ask is because I had a slip and miss while having sex with my ex-wife. That happened 2-3 years prior to noticing Peyronies. I also was taking G/C, and there is a possible link with Peyronies.
Let me share my experience so far after about 3 weeks. The only side effect I am getting is when I stand up too fast I get light headed. That is a known side effect, and I forget the reason why. I started with 75mg and am now taking 150mg. 300mg might be too much for not having high blood pressure. My blood pressure has dropped by about 10 points on both measurements, and I am still within the normal range. It takes about 2 weeks for this stuff to fully get into your system. It seems to be doing something, or this can be the benefit of the VED. I have 2 plaques. One initial one right behind the glans and the other right behind that. The initial plaque feels like it is getting smaller. The other one was bigger, and I don't really feel a change in that plaque. That plaque is also newer (within the last 4-5 month, initial one about 10 months ago). I had Verapamil on the initial plaque with 6 injections. No results and possibly caused the second plaque. Regarding erections, night time erections over the past 2 days have been more frequent and harder. I have the hinge effect and hour glassing. The last erection I had while awake yesterday had less of a hinge effect than prior erections. I wasn't able to bend it as much in either direction. So the decreasing size of the initial plaque and the hinge effect reduction are the positive effects I am seeing. Take this all with a grain of salt. It has only been 3 weeks, and some of the results could be from the VED, which has been used for 5 weeks. I'll post more in the next 3 weeks as I will need to decide whether or not I should order more Avapro.
There is one other thing I wanted to mention. Over the past 2 weeks or so, I have noticed a tingly sensation on the plaques. It's ever so slight, and I don't know what it means. It can mean healing sensation or hopefully not the opposite of growth sensations. Perhaps some of you can shed some light on this.
My doctor prescribed me Tamoxifen.
My libido is down to zero ---I do not care about it now.
anyone on Tamoxifen seen any results?
thanks guy
I haven't tried it personally. Some doctors do prescribe it, but the general consensus seems to be that pentoxifylline is the better option. Maybe that would have less impact on your sex drive?
Peyronies can kill a mans sex drive stone dead anyway. It may not be the Tamoxifen.
thank you for your responds.
I thought I would share an update. It doesn't seem like Avapro is workkng. Maybe the dose is off, but I wouldn't go higher. I'll be stopping in a week and a half. That would make it 2.5 months with a week and a half break. It was worth a shot.
I've read a lot about Pentox here being helpful as a blood thinner allowing better bloodflow in the penis and scar tissue. However when I asked my Cardiologist about it he informed me that it was a very mild blood thinner at best. Now I take the blood thinner Coumadin (Warfarin) daily for an arrhythmia problem and was wondering if anyone has experience with using Coumadin (supposedly a more aggressive blood thinning agent) rather than Pentox. My Cardiologist suggested that Coumadin would work far better than Pentox, but he is not an expert on Peyronies. Maybe I'm killing 2 birds with one stone.
I have been on Coumadin and warfarin for a mechanical valve since 2000 and my doctor told me that coumadin being a blood thinner, will not help me down there. (Warfarin is a generic drug and should work like Coumadin and is a lot cheaper.) I couldn't believe that my heart surgeon told me in the beginning to use coumadin and years later told me that it was the same as warfarin. ???
So I asked for Cialis regimen after reading some posts. My internist told me Cialis worked differently than Coumadin and I took his word for it? Cialis has helped along with the use of the VED. The VED helped me regain some of my losses. The worst thing about the disease is that we lose our pride....
ymn
You are using Coumadin daily. Is there any side effects of this ?
Quote from: angelina07samuel on June 01, 2011, 08:20:18 AM
You are using Coumadin daily. Is there any side effects of this ?
Must try and avoid eating dark green vegetables with high concentrations of vitamin K.
I think that the effect of pentox goes beyond that of a typical blood thinning effect, so I'm not sure that this would work as a substitute. Of course I could be wrong though..
I will consult uro on tomorrow's visit. I've also come to the conclusion that VI treatment while on Coumadin (warafin) is probably not a very wise idea. I don't think would be wise while on any blood thinner.
Quote from: pvpey on June 02, 2011, 02:03:14 PM
I will consult uro on tomorrow's visit. I've also come to the conclusion that VI treatment while on Coumadin (warafin) is probably not a very wise idea. I don't think would be wise while on any blood thinner.
Pentox is the way to go, and a mechanical treatment (traction, VED). There are a good number of studies involveing pentox and improvement in scar tissue / plaque. It's benefits extent way beyond blood thinning, and studies would seem to suggest that it isn't interchangable (unless there are scar tissue studies i've missed). Personally I'd steer clear of injeections until Xiaflex is given a big thumbs up. Using traction or VED in the meantime could result in significant improvements. Just my take, but effectively based on the experiences of men here. Good luck with whatever you go for :). Finding a peyronie's specialist (levine etc) wouldn't be a bad idea.
I have been on Neprinol(9/day) for a week and It is not as good of an anti inflamatory at Wobenzyme(6/day). I have tendonitis in my shoulder and the Wobenzyme dulled the pain at these dosages much better. My hope is I can kill two birds at once. Reduce any scar tissue in my shoulder and heal the Peyronies Disease. I will continue with the bottle and see.
I will say it has lowed my blood pressure a little in about a week.
I really don't have anything against Neprionol. It works wonders on some afflictions. But, unfortunately, it is being heavily marketed for the treatment of Peyronie's, and it certainly didn't help me with Peyronie's OR anyone else around here that is credible. As for Wobenzyme, I believe that *someone* around here has tried Wobenzyme and found it ineffective (for Peyronie's). - George
I went through 4-5 bottles of neprinol and it didn't do anything for my peyronies. I actually was going to stop taking it after my first order but the place I ordered from screwed up and sent me extra at no charge so I used them all up.
I'm considering hopping on colchicine, however Ive been reading on it and theres been mention of some really nasty side affects. Just hearing words like bone marrow are enough to cause serious hesitation. Was hoping those who have taken it could lend their two cents. Also generally what do we think of the health risks when it comes to this drug.
Trev:
I took huge amounts of colchicine for my ED and Peyronies Disease symptoms and it resulted in no change in either. There were some gastro problems with bloating and intestinal gas. (Could almost blow the covers off the bed at night.) So I DCd it in favor or potaba. Took about 13,000 potaba tablets (6 four times a day) in place of colchicine. No action with that either, so it was DCd in favor of the VED.
Colchicine works great for gout problems however.
Old Man
I took colchicin with NO results at all.....do not even bother....and the side effect is bad as well...GI issues...
Pentox is the only med that worked with me.
I originally started out on Tamoxifen, but after seeing a leading specialist in the UK he put me onto Pentox......he did say that there would be no reason not to take both if I wanted, but he didn't push the Tamoxifen.
TM
Don't waste your money, Neprinol won't help at all.
Patients on Coumadin might want to consider switching to Pradaxa IF that is an option for them. The reason for this is that Coumadin depletes vitamin K by design, and vitamin K depletion will result in elevated tendency toward calcification. Pradaxa thins the blood as effectively as Coumadin, but does NOT deplete vitamin K OR preclude foods or supplements with Vitamin K. Increasing Vitamin K intake lowers risk of soft tissue calcification. - George
George
A while back i ask about vitamin k.Can not remember my question but.This reates to potassium right? My doc a year ago or so gave me anti potassium drug to reduce potassium levels. I threw it out. Does pentox effect potassium levels.
Just wondering?
Fubar
From what I've read on Pentox, they don't really know exactly why it works. The theory seems to be the inflammatory properties. The useful stat is that in a double blind study the group that had pentox had a 40% chance of symptoms not progressing vs the non-blinded group.
Basically, Pentox is prescribed because it was shown that it works and not for any particular property in general. Such is science.
That is exactly my understanding of pentox.My question is does affect potassium levels?
Yes i have asked.that question in the past what inflammatory agent exsists in pentox or.any other blood pressure medicine. Do you know verapramil comes in a pill also ? So why would.we.need.to inject it or.rub it on our skin?.Then you have dsmo a transdermal delivery agent.ARE pentox and verapramil to toxic to use with dsmo?
Funat
Georeg
I have been on Pradaxa for about 5 months now. It is a lot better than coumidan. I don't have to go every month and have my blood checked either.
When I was at Vanderbilt a couple of months ago for my urodynamic testing Dr. Milam told me it is a great drug. He said that if I needed a TURP that I would not have to come off it like I would on coumidan. Thankfully I do not need another TURP.
Jackp
http://jackp-penileimplant.blogspot.com/
Quote from: PowerForHim on August 16, 2011, 05:41:22 AM
Don't waste your money, Neprinol won't help at all.
I would tend to agree unless you have a lot of money and want to experiment.
The makers of Neprinol say it may help but don't supply and strong evidence to prove it has for anyone.
It is primarily used for removingf fibrin from the arteries. I trust it does a decent job at that. It does thin the blood somewhat and will lower BP.
But it is very expensive.
Many of these enzymes WILL lower levels of fibrin in the blood. But so will lowering serum glucose. Serum fibrinogen levels are DIRECTLY related to serum glucose levels, so the problem can be solved at its root by lowering serum glucose levels. - George
Quote from: George999 on April 09, 2012, 11:19:57 AM
Many of these enzymes WILL lower levels of fibrin in the blood. But so will lowering serum glucose. Serum fibrinogen levels are DIRECTLY related to serum glucose levels, so the problem can be solved at its root by lowering serum glucose levels. - George
Really? That is a very interesting bit of info.
There is a relationship between elevated glucose levels and impaired clotting mechanisms in the body. Fibrinogen is involved in this matter.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8339853 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8339853)
- George
Hi everyone,
I would like to post my experience. I discovered this disease at the beginning of April. The initial bending was of 35°. Since that date I have been taking: POTABA (2 times a day, 3 plus grams as a powder), VIT E (2 pill a day) and a drug based on black raspberry (two pills a day). At the end of May I had no pain. I also decided after met another doctor to add PENTOX (400mg two times in a day). To date I can say that my bending is decreased of about 10/15°. Try also to imagine that I have very thick and large plaques (the larger is dorsal 1.5 cm x 5 cm). I do not want to endorse any particular drug but, in any case I believe POTABA is playing a very important role: but I think it is working because of the large amount of POTABA I have been taking. There are some prepared tablet and my first doctors recommended to take that kind of POTABA based pills. The trouble is that each tablet contained only 60 mg of POTABA. According to my current doctor and to some documents found in Internet, it works only if taken in large doses. As a matter of fact in order to decrease the problems related to this drug you have to take it after a meal.
I hope this could help some other unlucky guy like us. I will post some updates the following weeks.
May God bless all of you
PS: In any case to date I have spent in few months (from April) a lot of money, I would say something like 2500/3000€ (in visits, travels and drugs).
Has anyone heard of Papaverine capsules?
This is the oral version of Papaverine, the vasodilator used in Trimix.
From WebMD:
This medication is used to increase blood flow throughout the body, including the heart and the brain. Papaverine is a vasodilator. It works by relaxing the muscles in the blood vessels.
It treats Peripheral Vascular Disease.
My understanding is that it's basically like Pentox in improving blood flow. The question I have is, is it better than Pentox for Peyronie's? I haven't heard anything about it so I'm wondering can this be more effective and more powerful?
I'm gonna address it with my doctor tomorrow. Any thoughts on this would be great. Thank you.
I know there are quite a few different vasodilators used to treat hi BP. I think pentox is used because in addition it also reduces inflammation markers. I have also wondered if people who do not tolerate it well could apply pentox locally instead..
Thanks, funnyfarm. I appreciate the feedback.
I mentioned papaverine only because in its' liquid form it's used as part of Trimix.
I'm gonna start researching the other vasodilators and see if there are any other options to add to the Pentox.
Since I tolerate the pentox okay, I have not researched this. But if you uncover anything, let us know.
I am a little confused. I am not a doctor, pharmacist, or chemist but I do not think Pentox is even a vasodilator.
Pentox works by making the blood less viscous and also effecting the very nature of red blood cells so they can more easily flow through capillaries (many so small blood cells have to go through in single file). The PAV cocktail includes Pentox and the Vasodilator L-arginine. They have a synergistic effect. I don't think you can replace Pentox and take two vasodiators and expect to get a comparable effect.
Hawk, sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that Pentox should be replaced or that it's a vasodilator. Only that Papaverine is like Pentox in so far as they both improve blood flow. I've found some places online that sell it so I need to talk to my doctor about it today.